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1Leftism vs. Rightism
2
3	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
4We both know [Trump’s] election was the result of Republican gerrymandering, white backlash against Obama and Russian interference.
5#impeachbydecember
6	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
7His election was a result of people who aren't racist, sexist, and homophobic being sick and tired of being told by the left that they are.
8And you know it.
9	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
10Sargon of Akkad confirmed.
11	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
12I don't even agree half the time with the guy, but he's right.
13The difference between a Trump supporter and a nevertrumper is how they answer a simple math question like what's 1+1.
14A trump supporter will answer with 2, while a nevertrumper will sue math fo not being inclusive enough for women.
15People are sick and tired of illogical bullshit predominating society, and Trump is a direct Indication of that.
16	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
17The problem with Sargon's explanation of mass poetic justice is that most blue-collar Americans aren't deeply invested or terribly aware of what college kids are screaming about. And there is a difference, at least of degree, between university activist types and the kind of people who want to do things with more mainstream effects, like increase diversity in films to widen demographic appeal.
18	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
19Honestly, both of those kinds of people are pretty idiotic. I mean, I don't have the capacity to call a college an "educational facility" anymore. I think it's more of an "indoctrination facility."
20
21Free speech zones? Right wing groups being labeled as hate groups? Communism taught as a viable government? Colleges are a blight upon America, and upon free thought as a whole.
22	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
23They also give us millions of doctors, STEM researchers and businesspeople. But yeah, the unlawful internal court systems of a lot of schools should be abolished, and whole "appealing to the first amendment just proves you have no better defense for your words" trend is bad enough that I'm not even going to troll you with it.
24	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
25Oh, they used to give us those, sure. They were actually useful in that regard. But from what I've seen in recent years, colleges have been putting out paid protestors and rioters. And that's about it.
26	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
27Now that's just mean world syndrome.
28	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
29I'm just telling you my observations.
30I follow the news.
31	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
32The news that is biased and unreliable?
33	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
34And not just the mainstream, but alternative sources, as well.
35Ever heard of Sputnik News?
36What was it Darth Treya once said? "If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea."
37	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
38No, I haven't. I'm a lot more Epicurean about current events. But clearly the colleges are putting out about the same number of qualified graduates into the workforce as ever, or else it would be part of your complaint.
39	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
40Actually, recent studies show that Millennials are the least employed generation by far.
41So no they aren't.
42By the way, Sputnik News is an international News source officially sanctioned by Russia.
43It's good to get opinions from the other side of the (now defunct) iron curtain.
44	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
45Their unemployment isn't due to underqualification, though; the college isn't the reason they aren't getting employed, it's a combination of millennial culture, student debt and restrictive periods in the job market for entrt level positions.
46	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
47Student debt they could pay off if people would employ them. As for millennial culture, a huge part of that comes from, you guessed it, college professors.
48	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
49I doubt it. Maybe they stem from the same sympathies, but a zeitgeist isn't taught.
50	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
51But someone using "student debt," is just making excuses in my opinion.
52But seriously, where do you think millennials get the ideas about safe sp	Aces, microagressions, mansplaining, and such? That shit is taught in college.
53You can't tell me that millennials aren't being influenced by their professors.
54	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
55It spreads through the culture from several directions, and education's one of them, but so are entertainment and preexisting general opinion. Social media platforms made it possible for Western teenagers to have a definitive mass culture, and that includes all of the superficiality and complaining.
56And you can say that about student debt if you like, but I wouldn't. I worked hard in high school and got a 4.2 GPA that gave me enough scholarships not to need them, and I'm forever thankful for that.
57And even then, the best first job I could land is essentially a high-paying janitorial position.
58	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
59And who owns all the mass media outlets? Who own all the banks who fund student loans? Who do you think is perpetuating all this "culture" that people are exposed to?
60You're right in that the culture comes from multiple locations, but most of those locations are saying the same thing. It's not (((pure coincidence))) either.
61Hell, I'm partly afraid of publishing my comic book simply because of Erich's political beliefs. I'm certain I'm gonna get death threats and massive protests against me.(edited)
62And I won't even mention what I fear will go on behind the scenes.
63	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
64By entertainment I meant children's programming and popular music more than the news - "Stressed Out" and NEET culture have probably hurt employment more than news channels millennials are too busy Netflixing and fingering themselves to watch. And asking who's perpetuating the culture is like asking who keeps replenishing the ocean. It has to be there to satiate a human need for storytelling, and people are just using it for different things, good and bad. Not enough responsibility is ever laid at the feet of the writers of the world.
65	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
66There are currently Netflix children's shows encouraging children to masturbate, I shit you not. MLP is becoming more "diverse" and "inclusive." The gaming industry is constantly being pressured to be more PC, as seen with "Divinity." Social media platforms ban you for having right wing opinions. It's almost as if PC culture is trying to dominate every source of media.
67You can't tell me there isn't at least an attempt to indoctrinate people.
68	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
69Of course. This is the real annoyance with Trump - if people took him seriously like they did with Bush, the left would have to grow a legitimate counter culture and learn to have a sense of humor again, instead of being so ridiculously authoritarian. I just don't see a need for malevolence where teenaged sanctimony and well-meaning market pandering get the same result.
70	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
71See, I don't think this has anything to do with Trump, since people were pulling this shit since before he even announced his run for office.(edited)
72Apples and oranges.
73	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
74Sure, but it is coming to a head lately, and it's not like the two don't intersect.
75	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
76But Trump did not cause PC culture, like you would lead me to believe with your previous post. PC culture caused trump.
77	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
78I definitely didn't mean that.
79	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
80Well it sounded like that.
81	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
82No, this shit grew out of the left having power and making bad decisions. It's just that we can't rewind the tape any more because everyone's so self-righteous and they've lost the ability to be subtle and funny.
83When I was a kid, I watched the Colbert Report with my dad, and it was hilarious. We don't have a Colbert Report any more.
84	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
85I disagree. The Right can still be subtle and funny. In fact, most on the Right don't get offended by leftist memes (and I say that while trying to keep the straightest f	Ace possible) and actually end up making fun of them. Most on the left can get offended over a stick.
86And that's a direct result of PC culture.
87If the left was making bad decisions, being PC was the worst.
88	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
89I meant "everyone" as "everyone on the left". The right has become the counter culture, which sucks, because the counter culture wins in the long term and the left should know it. PC culture does stop the next Colbert Report and the next sexual revolution and the next Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, and that's abominable because things like that are vital to having any kind of viable alternative to the right.
90Ten years ago Milo would've been found in an airport bathroom sucking a guy's dick and lost his credibility. Sargon and the people much further right than him would have no audience unless they got on O'Reilly. Ben Shapiro would get shit on for having a wife who makes more money than him. The right has only become more respectable because it had to cede ground, and eventually the left will do that too, or something much worse will happen.
91	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
92If having respect for your family, being religious, respecting people based on their capabilities, not their r	Ace, having a love for your country, and not being a whore (either man or woman) is the counterculture, then I don't see anything that sucks about being part of the counterculture.
93	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
94Okay. Why have a counter culture?
95	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
96Because the mainstream culture is everything your counterculture isn't.
97And it's true. Right now people are shitting all over family values, warring on Christianity, stressing identity politics, and shitting on America while encouraging sex and no devotion to your lover.
98And that's mainstream.
99It's degeneracy.
100	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
101The reason you have a counter culture is so that there exists an alternate mode of being to the status quo and change is possible. For the counter culture to represent an old status quo is stagnation. If you move the same piece back and forth a dozen times in chess, it's a stalemate, because at that point it stops being a game of chess and turns into a game of chicken, and no one can play that. My real problem with the right holding the counter culture is that they also have majorities in the House and Senate, so they feel like victims without any of the necessary weakness.
102	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
103The counterculture elected the house and senate.
104Your argument is flawed.
105	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
106No, I'm pointing out that the right is holding most of the cards, including ones that it shouldn't be possible to hold together.
107	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
108Because the right achieved that hold by working hard for it.
109And you want to poopoo them for that?
110	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
111Kek.
112Yes, I do see a problem with the people who have the actual political power to make laws and steer the country simultaneously crying about how retarded college students are protesting them.
113You can't be David and Goliath at the same time.
114	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
115So now you see the Right's issue with the Obama administration. Congratulations, I'll give you a round of applause.
116	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
117Nice dodge.
118	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
119No, I'm serious.
120	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
121Do you see my point?
122	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
123I see your point, but you don't see mine.
124	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
125Well, I'm sympathetic to how you felt during that administration, but I'm not going to be hopscotched across every conservative talking point in order to point out the basic state of the political divide.
126	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
127We had to live through the left's train wreck of an administration through Obama. And in that time, he increased the national debt, had hundreds of mass shootings, and strained r	Ace relations to a breaking point. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
128But when we complained, we were told to suck it up, because that's how democracy works.
129Well guess what?
130Suck it up, because that's how democracy works.
131Yeah, I'm a little spiteful towards the left in general.(edited)
132	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
133The counter culture exists in all kinds of states, it's not democratic. You can't be both a social and political minority and majority no matter where you are, but it's in every group's immediate interests to get big and strong while looking attacked and sympathetic. If you do it too hard, though, you run the risk of bad long term consequences, because a two-party system at least requires that one of them goes off and licks their wounds for four years and tries better as an underdog the next time.
134	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
135Here's where your argument falls apart.
136How much do you trust Fox news?
137	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
138I don't know. If they're not talking about 4chan I think I'd listen to them.
139	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
140See, you're a minority.
141Everyone on the left says they're not a credible news source.(edited)
142	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
143Kind of defused ypur "Aha!", didn't I?
144	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
145Not exactly, I can still make my point.
146See, Most people would rather hear left wing opinions, if the polls are to be believed, as most people don't consider anything "right wing" to be credible.
147And the mainstream media keeps on putting out this identity politics bullshit that allows anyone who isn't a straight, white male to play the victim.
148Unfortunately, there's no government run institutions or court precedents that favor straight, white men, so the left has to push this "privilege" narrative.
149Black people have the NAACP.
150Women are favored to have custody in a divorce court.
151White men have "Privilege."
152And because of that, there's currently a massive racist, sexist movement sweeping the nation against White men.
153And White men make up the majority of the right.
154So while the Right is in control, popular opinion is against them, if the mainstream sources are to be believed.
155Which is perfect breeding grounds for a "counterculture" against a blatantly sexist and racist attack against the majority of the Right.(edited)
156	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
157Like I said, those are problems that deserve solutions, and I don't think the left should be doing stupid shit like this, but it sounds like the right would only be happy id you had a political majority, a victim position and control of public opinion. You earned one of those thirds fair and square and the other flip flops between everyone, but now that you've crowded the left into the last one I'm not very interested in hearing how desperately imperative it is that you get your hands on it.
158	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
159Popular opinion was never in the right's control, though.
160	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
161Not in your lifetime, maybe.
162	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
163For as long as I've lived, the ideas of the right have been frowned upon in most mainstream outlets and educational settings.
164That tells me that the left is not only in control of these things, but are actively trying to suppress the right.
165	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
166Well, have you considered that some of each party's ideas are just stupid, and exist because one of them has to hold them to represent the public?
167	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
168Yeah, I have.
169But it's not just the stupid ideas that are frowned upon. It's all ideas the right has.
170	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
171Most of my teachers were either right-leaning or quietist, personally. There's not much room in basic education to fit unsettled issues - they're too hard to make Scantrons for. And yes, the left has had a bigger hand in education, because it's traditionally put more money into it when it's had the opportunity, and it has a bigger voice in many media because it was more open and adopted them earlier. The left has variability where the right has staying power, it's what makes them stable. And we're not too far out from shit like McCarthyism in the long run, so I find it hard to think of public opinion as being under rigid leftist control. Historically, when you hand the media to right wing people they turn into the nanny who takes all of the fun and creative expression away.
172But are these right-wing ideas just the ones you've already listed, or are there more?(edited)
173	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
174"Historically,  when you hand the media to right wing people they turn into the nanny who takes all of the fun and creative expression away." Oh, you mean like what the left is doing now?
175And I meant ALL right wing ideas.
176	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
177Yes.
178And it's what pisses me off about the left.
179	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
180It's my belief that no matter which side you're on, there's someone, or something, in charge that just wants to shit all over the freedom of the people.
181	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
182Yes, but it's possible to keep the rod out of their hand if you think ahead far enough. Free speech and freedom of the press are two things I would actually be "nationalist" over.
183	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
184I'm in agreement there. The free exchange of ideas is what is necessary in order for humanity to thrive.
185	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
186Of course. Which is why when would-be tyrants come, those are the first things they have to undermine, usually with decorum and sensitivity, or just not wanting people to encourage each other to go on drug binges and be whores. It's that first, reasonable request that must be stamped and ground into the dirt.
187If it isn't, Pandora's box is open.
188	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
189Which is why religion is necessary. It dissuades that kind of behavior.
190But too often, people make the mistake of giving religion too much power in government.
191Which is how you get the caliphates.
192	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
193When you say religion, do you mean any will do?
194	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
195Obviously, some don't have any doctrine concerning drugs and whoring.
196But Shinto seems to be good about respecting your body, as well as Taoism.
197Christianity just says "Don't do things that would displease the Lord," and "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
198So not all religions, but most.
199	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
200Well, clearly not all of them can be true, so I take it you value their ability to stop people from doing drugs and getting STDs more than whether they give people a realistic view of the world.
201	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
202A realistic, yet positive view, I would say.
203	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
204Well, it matters a lot which god you're not displeasing, since even if one of them exists the majority of the religious must be deluded about the nature of reality. If it were really only possible to instill morality in the popul	Ace by hiding some truth from them, then the world would already be lost. And things that are potentially harmful to oneself and not to others usually need religions to enforce them because people wouldn't think of them as wrong unless they were told to.(edited)
205	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
206However, it is true that without opiates for the masses, tyrants would never be able to gain a foothold. So maybe there's something to criminalizing things that are harmful to the self.
207	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
208I don't think so. And besides, where do you stop? Heroin, marijuana, video games, masturbation? How do you stop the next person from taking another step further, once you open the door? If you let people make bad choices in public and suffer the consequences in public, they'll eventually move away from them.
209Or, at least, someone will be able to see and learn from it.
210I think if you legalized all drugs today, there would be a spike of deaths in the streets for the next ten days, and then the large-scale problems they represent would be solved permanently.
211	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
212Maybe I used the wrong word.
213Let me rephrase that.
214Maybe there's something to discouraging things that are harmful to the self.
215	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
216I'd say that depends on where the discouragement comes from. Parents and other loved ones would be remiss if they didn't tell us not to go racing off of cliffs. Institutionalizing that, outside of stopping people from destroying each other or civilization itself, is dangerous.
217	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
218Which is why religion should not be a political tool. Religion is basically philosophies on how one should live one's life, encouraging good behavior while shunning evil. And trust me, I'd rather live in a society where people encourage one another to be kind and humble, than a society where people are just total amoral dicks to one another.
219	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
220Religion is philosophy, yes, but its ethics come with an epistemology that is, at best, on shaky ground. Being a kind and humble person because you want other people to be that way, or because you value other people, or because you have empathy, is a lot better to me than doing it for an astronomical carrot and stick.
221Following dictates out of your own cosmic self interest is true amorality, in the sense that you have no moral agency in the equation.
222	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
223But where is the justification to have that empathy? Where is the value of other people coming from? Man cannot justify morality without some sort of baseline of what is moral. Even Taoism is based on exemplifying metaphysical aspects, and justifies all it's morals based on those aspects.
224	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
225If you take animals that live alone and socialize them in a lab, within a few generations they develop empathy and senses of fairness. It's how social animals maintain dominance hierarchies and don't go extinct every Tuesday. We have that empathy, and even those of us who don't, like sociopaths, often have a vested interest in allowing society to continue existing, because they're society too. You listen to your conscience or you suffer, and in some sense you have to care about that because pain is hard to ignore. It can just be atoms in the void, no metaphysics required. And even if you don't buy that, surely you'd agree that a kid who doesn't steal because his dad will punish him is morally inferior to one who doesn't steal because he believes stealing is wrong.(edited)
226	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
227So you're advocating for nation states and nationalism. Like minds think alike, so we should keep our borders secure. since those who come from outside our borders will bring with them ideas that will shake up the foundation of our morality.
228Your argument means that only a social consciousness who has no tampering from outside influences can really become moral.
229	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
230Kind of. A lot of people don't refrain from stealing just because they think it's wrong, they do it because the iron hand of the law will punish them and they're afraid to f	Ace those consequences. But the basic sense of right and wrong that people feel is a human universal, and in its basic form it has to be followed to play the game of society in the first pl	Ace. Anyone who thinks we should burn down all of the buildings instead of going to work in the morning gets ignored and reported to the police.
231	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
232But isn't that the same carrot-and-stick approach that religion uses, just in a different setting?(edited)
233	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
234Yes, partly. My criticism of that approach is that you don't have to really believe any of the things being commanded are moral. In fact, as in the story of Isaac, applying critical thinking to those commands would make you less pure. With the law as the authority, you can at least think it through and justify it as pragmatism. But a good society is one that needs fewer laws, not more, and there are a lot of people in the world who won't steal just because they feel it's wrong. Those are the truly moral people.
235Whence that intuition is academic.
236	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
237Yet 400 years ago, it was legal in America to own another human being.
238right now, in the middle east, it's legal to throw someone off a rooftop for being gay.
239What morality can be derived from Man's laws with these as example?
240	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
241No, I'm arguing that laws bulwark normal morality, not that morality is derived from them. And slavery was a failure of empathy, started in the dark desperate past out of necessity for labor and then kept alive through convenience, tradition and religion until it was finally blown out of the water by Enlightenment thinking that valued ending suffering for its own sake over doing what this or that book dictates.
242	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
243Your argument defeats itself. If laws bulwark normal morality, and slavery and tossing people off rooftops are considered "moral" for a society, then it's obvious that man doesn't have the capacity to dictate it's own moral code.
244Hell, even in modern America, it would be considered "Amoral" to lie to law enforcement even though it's completely moral for them to lie to you.
245Is it amoral to own a gun in Chicago or Detroit?
246	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
247Do you mean immoral?
248	Ace Sorou - 03/30/2018
249Is it amoral to sign into a national park undera false name?
250Sorry, Immoral.
251You're right.(edited)
252But you get what I'm saying.
253	Ditherer - 03/30/2018
254One second, vendor hall finally opened.
255
256
257
258Logan Paul / Dylan Klebold
259
260
261	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
262YouTubers need to stop picking on Dylan Klebold just for trying to get some succubus pusspuss in the /x/ meme forest.
263	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
264Logan Paul is a douchebag, though.
265He disrespected an entire culture. If you knew Japanese culture, you'd know how many cultural taboos he broke in his first video from Japan alone.
266	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
267He said he was sorry! Weebs just keep picking on Dylan because he expected everywhere to be Akihabara and he had an audience to entertain.
268I mean, think how many great videos he made before that, and that one strike against >muh Japanese culture invalidates all that?
269	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
270>One strike
271
272Try two dozen. He set back everything that Foreign teachers and advisors have accomplished by about ten years.
273Sorry doesn't cut it.
274	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
275Well, if everyone's calling him out on it, clearly not.
276	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
277It doesn't matter if everyone is calling him out on it or not.
278Now the average Japanese person thinks we're all like Logan Paul.
279And trust me that was the attitude before we tried to improve in Relations.(edited)
280	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
281don't worry, 	Ace
282	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
283Yeah, I'm sure they're running news stories 24/7 about Mr. Klebold smacking bitches with fish. We're gonna lose all our trade agreements for this vile offense of one guy being an asshole.
284	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
285i know that americans are decent
286not logan paul
287he can suck my ass tho
288	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
289No Soft, he set us back ten years!
290	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
291I'm not being melodramatic. You just don't understand how severe is public flaunting of taboos was
292And I'm glad you don't judge that way 	Sofuto.
293But there's this guy I know who f	Aced what could only be called racism against Gaijin while he was in Japan.
294And those attitudes are caused by people like Logan Paul.
295	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
296Yeah  the No Whites shit, right?
297Or is it Japanese Only?
298	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
299Japanese only.
300I understand both sides of the issue, but I don't think Logan understands how badly he f* up.
301And my voice reader is censoring my words.
302	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
303Dylan probably doesn't care. He offended like ten people and got publicity for the other stuff he makes that's good.
304	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
305He attended an entire nation, they practically banned him from coming back.
306	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
307Are the samurai stationed at the airport?
308	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
309That's the jsdf job.
310We can talk more when I get home.
311Long is my voice reader head heard that right.
312No stop typing you piece of s***.
313	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
314who me
315that was an accident 	Ace
316but even after the shit logan paul did, i don't hold bad opinions towards americans
317nah, i just hold bad opinions towards extreme patriots and arrogant people
318	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
319Hey, I'm home.
320And I was talking to this piece of crap I got for my phone.
321Supposedly it reads your voice, and automatically sends text messages when you stop talking.
322And it's advertised as having "the most advanced voice recognition software available."
323My ass.
324By the way, @	Ditherer, I'd like to playtest your campaign.(edited)
325So long as there's HiE involved.
326If not, I'm fine being a Unicorn.
327	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
328https://youtube.com/watch?v=PgSy23HDSp8
329YouTube
330Michael Got Vlogs
331Logan Paul did nothing wrong
332
333Sweet, let's see if I can wrangle 5 more.
334	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
335BUT! I can post videos too.
336https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkROPxg3V4E
337YouTube
338Gaijin Goombah Media
339My Response to Logan Paul's Vlogs in Japan
340
341	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
342https://youtube.com/watch?v=br3H7NHVeZo
343YouTube
344Swipa The Explora
345Logan paul did nothing wrong, if you hate logan you are a skinhead...
346	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
347I want to say you're being ironic with these.
348https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNlOVdTQEIM
349YouTube
350That Japanese Man Yuta
351Logan Paul (Don't be That Guy in Japan... or Anywhere Else)
352
353	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
354https://youtube.com/watch?v=1MsYOTkLBLE
355YouTube
356good review channel
357Logan Paul did not do anything wrong
358
359	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
360>All of these videos are kids that don't understand Japanese culture
361You're definitely trolling.
362Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
363Eh? Campaigns? HiE? Minorly related to 4chan? Why does this remind me of the last time I did this in /mlp/?
364	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
365
366>All of your videos are faggoty reacter channels trying to cash in on a vlogger's honest mistakes
367>The words of genuine fans aren't better than muckraking leeches spitting on the target of the week for quarters.
368	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
369>Gaijin goombah
370>Needing to Cash in on anyone's fame
371>Ever
372
373HAH!
374>Also having ACTUAL JAPANESE people reacting.
375https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf5dsekDBCk
376YouTube
377Asian Boss
378What The Japanese Think Of Logan Paul | ASIAN BOSS
379
380	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
381>all of this started because i thought about a stand that made people suck dick at a reasonable p	Ace
382are you guys alright
383Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
384>the #logang are literal children who clap and whoop when their hero shrieks like an idiot and disrespects a dead man
385	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
386Not all of us! I've been watching Dylan Klebold's videos for years, you fucks!
387	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
388I can't tell whether or not you're being serious.
389I think you're the ultimate troll.
390Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
391>not self-censoring with ‘frick’ or ‘heck’
392	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
393What makes you think I'm not being serious?
394	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
395I'm also interested in the campaign but timezones would probably fuck me in regards to me being able to play
396	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
397I'm nocturnal. You probably have the best shot, tbh.
398Pi
399StarAnon - 04/15/2018
400I'd like to try out the campaign, but I don't have  a microphone, so I don't think I could much for that podcast you wanted to do.
401	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
402>podcast
403What's this?
404StarAnon - 04/15/2018
405Wasn't it mentioned in the thread?
406Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
407I’ve been looking to get into rpgs again ever since that operators in Equestria thread died
408	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
409I want to record the session calls and post them online, because I'm a whore.
410	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
411	Ditherer, the only one besides you defending Logan Paul are a bunch of raging 12 year olds who don't understand Japan.
412Of course I'm going to say you're trolling.(edited)
413	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
414https://youtube.com/watch?v=VQi7IHolz7c
415>youtube drama leeches are valid
416>real fans aren't because they don't have the proper shuriken grip in a business meeting
417YouTube
418Emjay 90s
4196 Minutes of Logang members defending Logan Paul to make you hate 2018
420
421	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
422I picked it less as trolling and more deliberately picking the opposing opinion to flex his debating muscles
423	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
424If that's the case, then let's do this.
425StarAnon - 04/15/2018
426	Ace and 	Ditherer sure do like to debate for the sake of debating.
427	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
428I'm trying to make a point here!
429	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
430But regardless Logan Paul did act like a dickhead
431	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
432Yeah, I'm sure the corpse's feelings were really hurt.
433	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
434Across his entire trip
435Like running around with fish
436That's not even a culture thing
437	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
438Dude, showing the dead body of a suicide is one of the WORST things you can do in Japanese culture.
439	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
440He apologized!
441	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
442If I saw a bloke running around with fish on the streets of Melbourne then I'd call him just as much of a dickhead
443	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
444"Hey man, I just planted a bomb in the local cafe, no one got hurt, but it was destroyed, and I'm sorry. We cool?"(edited)
445	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
446one time i saw some nigga run around throwing sushi at people
447it was bizarre but it made me laugh
448	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
449And again, irrigardless of culture showing video of a dead body hanging from a tree is a stupid thing to do
450	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
451>hurt feelings equal destroyed property
452Literally SJW
453	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
454>Missing the point of my argument
455We don't really have an equivalence here in the US.
456I was going to say "Stepping on/burning a flag," But that's considered "Free speech."
457	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
458>Hurt feelings are different when it's a country I have a boner for
459Okay
460	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
461>Missing the point of my argument, again
462And no, I'm just well versed in other cultures outside the US.
463	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
464Yeah, well he apologized. Dylan gave you all everything you wanted, and you're still bitching about him because you don't want to be satisfied.
465	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
466If someone ran into your house, and took a huge piss in the vase you keep on the mantle, the one which you keep your grandma's ashes in, would you accept it if he said "Hey man, I'm sorry."
467	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
468This might be something I missed, but why are you calling him Dylan, Dith
469I keep getting confused because I think you're talking about someone else
470StarAnon - 04/15/2018
471Like the Columbine guy?
472I thought that was supposed to be the joke
473Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
474I would sure love to have a group of children around to defend every bad or shitty action that I did
475	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
476Yeah, after Eric died he changed his name and started vlogging.
477	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
478I
479	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
480Everyone knows that.
481	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
482See this is why I think you're taking the piss
483Anyway
484	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
485Compare the pictures!
486	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
487Eeeh
488	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
489You have to be shitposting to the extreme.
490	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
491But yea
492A single 'I'm sorry' doesn't excuse his actions
493BUT
494	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
495I believe the Holocaust was a lie, and even I think the Columbine thing is out there.
496Just pointing that out.
497	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
498	Ace do you believe in the armenian genocide
499	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
500If he put in an effort to appologise and mean it, then forgiveness would be on the table
501	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
502The Armenian Genocide? I don't know enough about it to say yes or no.(edited)
503	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
504But seeing as one of the first videos he made after the incident was him tazing a dead rat that doesn't seem to be the case
505	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
506Columbine was a false flag.
507	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
508No, Sandy hook was a false flag.
509Las Vegas was a false flag.
510Columbine was real.
511Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
512I wonder if Logan Paul thinks Columbine was fake
513	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
514logan paul is a flat earther
515fact
516	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
517No, it set the precedent, that's how you know. And why the fucking police just sat on their asses for five hours.
518	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
519Because Clinton was in charge.
520	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
521Anyway, if Columbine really happened, how is Dylan still alive and making videos?
522He literally put on a beanie and fooled you guys.
523	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
524>Implying he's Dylan
525LOLK.
526	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
527COMPARE THE PICTURES
528	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
529Ever heard of the "Doppleganger effect?"
530Thrillhouse_Van_Houten - 04/15/2018
531Dylan is alive in Serbia, and is recording his debut album with Tupac.
532	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
533Yeah, I'm sure a German shapeshifter's copying him to make YouTube videos.
534StarAnon - 04/15/2018
535The greatest hustle
536	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
537He literally got a deal from Clinton to get a body double made and go into Witness Protection.
538	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
539Ok
540But if that's the case
541Why make yourself so public through youtube?
542StarAnon - 04/15/2018
543Money?
544	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
545I don't know if that's what it's called, but statistically speaking, with as many people as are born in the world, and the more that number increases, the odds that there will be two people from two different families looking exactly the same becomes more likely.
546	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
547And even then they hardly look exactly the same
548StarAnon - 04/15/2018
549"Kurokami the Animation" had a plot around that doppelganger theory
550	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
551In his first vlog he explains that he needs somewhere to express himself. Maybe if you actually knew something about him you wouldn't be such a hater.
552	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
553And maybe if you knew even a smidgen of Japanese culture, you'd know that what he did was multiple levels of not cool.
554	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
555Even outside of Japanese culture what he did was not cool
556	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
557What more do you want from him? Jailtime for laughing at people?
558	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
559It's just worse in Japan, with how they treat the dead, especially Suicides.
560How about an Earnest apology?
561And an actual understanding of him knowing why what he did was wrong?
562	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
563Well in an ideal world a smidgen of self awareness that the entire thing was a bad idea
564	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
565He gave you that!
566	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
567No, he's like "It was just a prank, bro!" and went on his way.
568That's hardly earnest.
569He shows no repentance for his actions.
570	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
571https://youtube.com/watch?v=QwZT7T-TXT0
572YouTube
573Logan Paul Vlogs
574So Sorry.
575
576	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
577His very next video was him tasing a dead rat.
578I doubt he meant it.
579	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
580I think its less he meant it and more he doesn't comprehend it
581He knows he fucked up
582Just not why
583	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
584^
585	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
586Hence why he made the original video
587	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
588Now that I could get behind.(edited)
589	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
590>no earnest repentence
591>i-i mean not a week of earnest repentence
592Want some cheese with that whine?
593	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
594He didn't know it was bad
595	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
596He didn't know how bad it was what he did.
597	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
598Boo hoo.
599	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
600And he doesn't realize how badly his actions have affected an entire nation.
601And fuck you.
602	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
603To centeralize myself more in this argument
604His actions hardly affected an entire nation
605It affected youtube more than anything I feel
606	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
607Really? So the anti-Gaijin sentiment hasn't grown with his stupidity becoming National news?
608International news?
609	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
610How many flailings does he need with the cat o' nine tails, 	Ace?
611	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
612You're not getting it, and I don't want that.
613What I'm saying is, it's made things much harder for people who want to tour Japan, even on a nice holiday.
614	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
615I doubt that
616	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
617It's made it so people like me are more likely to be refused service at a store because I'm not Japanese.
618And yes, that's happened.
619I mean, I'm just a Gaijin. How could I understand the country I'm visiting?
620Especially since my kind is okay filming suicides in a sacred forest.(edited)
621So go ahead, act callous.(edited)
622But fuck you.
623	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
624I think it's a smaller drop in the water than both of you are saying
625StarAnon - 04/15/2018
626I wouldn't have known any of these things if it weren't for you guys.
627
628…
629
630
631	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
632>If Japanese people hate an American hero for his sense of humor, it's his fault and he's making it worse for the rest of us
633>If Muslims hate an American hero, their culture is toxic and needs to be eradicated.
634	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
635aw SHIT
636THIS NIGGA RIGHT
637	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
638>american hero
639	Ditherer - 04/15/2018
640Thank fuck my wifi works!
641>People who fake their deaths in false flags aren't American heroes.
642Work starting.
643	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
644Where do I begin in that wrongness?
645	Sofuto - 04/15/2018
646goddamn it dith we were talking about foodplay and you do this shit again
647at least talk about kebabs like damn
648	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
649I know, right?
650	AusAnon - 04/15/2018
651God don't talk about kababs
652	Ace Sorou - 04/15/2018
653I said the topic hit too close to home, dammit.(edited)
654
655
656Flat Earth vs. Round Earth
657
658
659	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
660Light is a wave. (Fig. a) Much like a radio wave or a sound wave, light travels quickly through the air. Our eyes are naturally gifted to interpret light as images. A special property light has is that it doesn't require a medium to travel through, unlike sound waves. This is proven by shining light through a vacuum sealed container.
661
662Since sp	Ace is a vacuum, which nothing other than light can naturally travel, let's try a little experiment.
663If light needed a medium, a vacuum sealed container would stop light in it's tracks. Incidentally, that's an experiment you can try. Vacuum seal a jar at your house, and shine a light through it. If I'm right, then my argument is sound. If I'm wrong, then my argument is blown out of the water.
664Another unique thing about light is that it reflects and refracts off of surf	Aces or lenses. (Fig. b) If light shines through, say, a glass of water, then it will slow down, causing the light to bend. Another experiment you can try to prove this, get a glass of water, and stick a straw in it. If the straw appears to fold in the water, then you can see light refracting off the water, or bending.
665Now, given all of this, if the sun was casting light through a firmament, then naturally, the light would scatter everywhere, given that it's basically refracting through what can only be described as a type of lens. In other words, there's no way that the Sun can shine onto the Earth without the light scattering, lighting up spots randomly all over the earth.
666Firmament disproven.
667While at the same time, proving light can travel in a vacuum, much like sp	Ace.
668	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
669The sun isn't outside of the Firmament, it's a part of it, like a projection on a wall. This idea of "outer sp	Ace" beyond Earth is completely unfounded.
670	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
671For the Sun to be a projection, there has to be a projector.
672Where is it?
673Nevermind that a simple projection wouldn't be able to give enough light and heat to sustain the Earth...
674	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
675I was using an analogy. The sun is a nuclear disc floating in the upmost reaches of the Firmament, near the edge itself.
676	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
677And how far away is it?
678And how does it move?
679	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
680I'm afraid I don't have the blueprints on hand for every f	Acet of nature.
681	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
682Do you at least know how high the Firmament is supposed to be?
683	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
684Higher than the breathable atmosphere and the formation of clouds, clearly. Since the sun's up there, higher than the ozone layer.
685	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
686So only about six miles up.
687	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
688At least.
689	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
690Do you know the effects of a radioactive material from that distance?
691We'd all be hideously mutated if we're lucky.
692We all should be dead due to the proximity of the sun due to the Flat Earth "Hypothesis."
693	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
694You're assuming the sun is much larger than it really is.
695	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
696Sorry, I'm listening to this as I read your argument.
697https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLpHv_EtHAQ
698YouTube
699EricArchive
700Kevin MacLeod ~ Run Amok
701
702	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
703>listening to Ken MacLeod
704I'm sorry Comcast gave you two strikes for pirating, buddy.
705	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
706No, i'm listening to it because it fits.
707Back to the topic at hand, how large is the sun?
708	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
709Sure thing. Long live the Creative Commons dream, maaaan!
710You keep asking me for these numbers. I'm just telling it like it is.
711Also, the Big Bang is itself a denial of the second law of thermodynamics. Even if you fuck time up the ass so that there was no point of absolute nothingness, you still introduce the possibility of spontaneous self-contained matter generation as a serious day-to-day event.
712	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
713Numbers don't lie.
714	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
715I knew a guy who could prove 1+1=3.
716	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
717And I can prove that 1=/=1. Big whoop. Miniscule differences in number are taken into account with mathematics. But that's a Red Herring. Can you at least tell me how the sun moves?
718	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
719Gr	Acefully.
720Actually, through the eternal blessing of dialectical thought, I have been enlightened with a better explanation.
721	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
722Go on.
723	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
724The Firmament, after the point which contains the heavens and the moon, has a second "chamber" containing a fierce nuclear fire. Pieces of the Firmament open at set times each day in succession, causing parts of this chamber to illuminate through as either a disc-shaped spotlight or many very small stars. If not for the vanishing point of human vision, and the atmosphere in the way, we would see this ourselves, but as it is the light shines through.
725	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
726And how do these pieces open?(edited)
727Sorry, it took me a while to stop chuckling.
728https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlWUrnQsP_Y
729YouTube
730EricArchive
731Kevin MacLeod ~ Jaunty Gumption
732
733	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
734Are you gonna make a PBSIdeaChannel video on me, 	Ace?(edited)
735	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
736No, I don't make videos, yet.
737I'm just here to tell you why you're wrong.
738But to do that, I need the sequence in which the firmament opens.
739You know that, no matter what you say, Observational evidence contradicts your explanation, right?
740Here's the thing.
741The Sun rises from the East, and sets in the West.(edited)
742This is true no matter where on Earth you are.
743If you say that the Firmament opens in a straight line across the sky, the angle of that line changes depending on where on Earth you are.(edited)
744If you say that the Firmament opens in a U shape, then the sun would rise in the North, and Set in the North.
745Ergo, your explanation is impossible either way.
746	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
747https://youtube.com/watch?v=K47zw4Z_lZI
748YouTube
749あくしょんムジカ Action Musica
750Biznezz |Creative Commons Music ¡Download for your video!
751
752It opens in multiple pl	Aces.
753	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
754Then we'd see multiple suns.
755	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
756You can't see the sky over Egypt, you can only see the sky over you. Nonoverlapping suns move about as needed. It's why they never touch the "poles".
757	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
758Then there'd be no such thing as "Night."
759With multiple suns, there'd be constant daylight.
760	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
761You keep thinking in this heliocentric worldview.
762The stars are over some pl	Aces while the suns are over others.
763	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
764No, I'm thinking from the Flat Earth perspective. Your explanation is similar to the "Spotlight" hypothesis.
765Even if it shines on only a part of the Earth at a time, we'd still see the edges of something shining at night.
766In fact, we'd see multiples of that object's shining corners at night, based on your explanation.
767	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
768You do, from high up. You can see the sunlight sweep across into nighttime smoothly, as parts of the Firmament open and close.
769	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
770And your explanation of the Firmament being right above the breathable atmosphere makes HALO jumps impossible.
771In fact, no pilot has ever reported seeing what you're describing.
772	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
773HALO isn't real.
774	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
775High Altitude Low Opening?
776That's not real?
777https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_military_parachuting
778High-altitude military parachuting
779High-altitude military parachuting (or military free fall (MFF)) is a method of delivering military personnel, military equipment, and other military supplies from a transport aircraft at a high altitude via free-fall parachute insertion. Two tec...
780
781	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
782>they drop people outside the breathable atmosphere to parachute
783By your logic shouldn't they die in the vacuum then?
784	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
785They have breathing harnesses on.
786Read the article.
787	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
788They'd still just float away.
789	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
790The Breathable atmosphere doesn't stop outside Earth's Gravitational pull.
791Or rather, Vice-versa.
792Sorry.
793The amount of ineptitude I'm sensing is throwing off my wording.
794Earth's gravitational field extends far beyond it's atmosphere.
795Which is why meteor showers are a thing.
796	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
797Yeah, the twelve gorillion meteors that hit the atmosphere each year and never land anywhere.
798	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
799Because they burn up on reentry due to the speed in which they begin to transfer from a vacuum environment to an atmosphere causing massive amounts of friction.
800	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
801Or the firmament opens every now and then and stabilized, heavier elements are ejected in minute quantities.
802	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
803Why would it need to do that if it was created perfect already?
804BAM!
805	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
806Because entropy is part of the design.
807	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
808I never said it was created perfect.
809	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
810Sorry, but other people have.
811I thought you'd make the same argument.
812	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
813Maybe God's a dick.
814	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
815A different conversation altogether, and a topic for another time.
816But, if meteors were being ejected from the firmament, what are they composed of?
817What heavy materials does the firmament need to eject?
818	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
819Radioactive material decayed to stable atomic structures.
820	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
821So not the iron and such we can detect in them with ground based telescopes hooked up to magnetic sensors and geiger counters?
822Also, if DU was being ejected from our atmosphere, that shit is so dense and heavy it'd fall back to earth in one piece.
823	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
824No, it's that. It just decays into that.
825	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
826DU is still heavy as hell.
827	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
828DU?
829	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
830Depleted Uranium.
831You said Depleted and Decayed atomic waste.
832That's DU.
833	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
834No, like supernovas supposedly put out lots of heavy elements. Same theory.
835	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
836Yeah, but it's still so dense and heavy it would fall back to Earth, and land on the ground in one piece.
837	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
838Yeah, that's how meteors happen.
839That's how the dinosaurs went extinct.
840	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
841Except what falls to the ground is Iron, not DU.
842	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
843Yeah.
844If suns can do it in your science textbook, the real deal can do it.
845	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
846We're talking millions of years before that happens.
847	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
848Yeah.
849	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
850It doesn't immediately happen upon ejection.
851	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
852The Firmament's been around for billions of years.
853You can carbon date that shit.
854	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
855So we'd see pieces of DU floating around in the upper atmosphere, right?
856Except we don't.
857Also, if we can see the meteor showers, then we'd be able to see the entire Sun layer of the firmament.
858	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
859No, it gets ejected from the chamber into the infinite ocean.
860	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
861Read my above.
862If that were true, the sky would be one bright, yellow blob which we wouldn't be able to look at, and would cook us alive.
863	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
864That's why it opens one bit at a time.
865	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
866No, it doesn't work like that.
867We wouldn't be able to see meteor showers.
868You're caught in your own trap.
869	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
870Sure we would. Only a few nickel-sized holes would have to open to eject freefalling burning matter and make it streak across the sky.
871	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
872But that is DU, not iron.
873	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
874Says you.
875	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
876and every scientist who studies this phenomenon.
877I know, appeal to authority.
878	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
879The iron got formed in the billions of years the fire was burning. It's probably stored in a separate chamber.
880	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
881So now there's two chambers.
882But if that's the case, it'd be raining meteors every fucking day wherever the sun shined.(edited)
883F	Ace it.
884Your hypothesis just doesn't work.
885It's stupid.
886	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
887No, the chunks of iron are moved as needed to the openings.
888	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
889By what mechanism?
890And if all this were true, we'd be able to measure it.
891But we can't.
892	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
893Sure, if you climbed up there and lived you could see it.
894	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
895And you still haven't explained how people can go higher than the firmament to perform High Altitude jumps.
896	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
897I said the Firmament must be above the breathable atmosphere. I didn't say five inches above.(edited)
898Also, what banger are you listening to now?
899	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
900Still the same one.
901It fits too well to what you're saying.
902	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
903Can I get a free audiobook from Audible.com if I use the special keyword HEIL with my order?
904	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
905Alright, this was fun.
906But now, I gotta go pick up my baby sister.
907	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
908>Attacking Ken MacLeod was too far.
909	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
910No, I mean it.
911I enjoyed this.
912It was hilarious trying to see you explain your way out of a paper bag.
913	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
914Trying?
915	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
916You didn't. There's waaaaay too many holes in your hypothesis.
917	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
918I've never argued it before, I invented my own cosmology on the fly and I didn't even have to appeal to God.
919	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
920Props for that, but I was still able to poke holes in it until it deflated like a balloon.(edited)
921	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
922That's skill, muthafucka.
923You ain't poked one hole that I didn't address.
924	Ace Sorou - 04/18/2018
925No, I could go on with all of it, but I seriously gotta get ready to pick up my baby sister.
926School's almost out.
927	Ditherer - 04/18/2018
928I hope you make her listen to your homeless person music.
929
930
931
932Depravity vs. Progress
933
934
935	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
936I don't, but I think it's pretty clear cut what I'm saying. See the picture on the right? Little girls in Germany were wearing similar things in the 1920's. It wasn't until the 1930's that they started wearing things like what's depicted on the left. An oversexualized society with degraded morals is much easier to control.
937	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
938By the way, know how I know it's the Jews doing this hostile takeover of society? Several reasons, but the first that set me on the path was this quote from Voltaire. “To know who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
939
940
941	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
942
943
944
945
946	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
947You're starting to sound like my Women in Media professor.
948	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
949>ignoring that I used males, too
950	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
951>what is an analogy
952	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
953I'm calling out a false equivalency fallacy.
954This is different from what she's saying.(edited)
955	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
956Well, I hate to tell you this, Socrates, but you'd have to call out a false equivalence. You don't just staple the word fallacy to the end of every logic error.
957But more to your point.
958Sex is a good way to sell products, in theory. Advertising is a little desperate as a medium, so it can be hard to tell if something works or not, but if it does work the purchasing decisions of consumers will reward it, which will in turn make it more lucrative as a strategy and more likely to be picked up by your competition. That's the Invisible Hand in a nutshell.
959	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
960A false equivalency is a fallacy. But disregarding that, how often do you see men and women dressing so provocatively out in public if you don't live in Palm Beach, or some tropical paradise? My point is that the more people are exposed to these kinds of images, the more people see them as normal. Consider the case of waifus, for example. How many of the people here have a realistic image of what a girlfriend or a lover actually is?
961We surround ourselves with images of our waifus, and assign them unrealistic expectations and standards, so much that >3DPD is seen as actually inferior, to the point that we go on believing that 3D women aren't important.
962It's the same concepts with advertisements and sex. The more outlandish things we expose ourselves to and accept, the more we come to accept them as "Normal," and the more we can readily accept them into our society as standard.
963Ergo, it's normal for young women and men to dress provocatively, and so our society let's them.
964Then our children try to emulate their elders.
965And what do we get?
966	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
967A false equivalence is a fallacy, yes. I'm just telling you that if you want to sound more high-falutin' and smart than just saying "that's a dishonest comparison", you should at least get the goddamned words right. And I haven't read anything you just posted, so give me a second.
968	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
969You told me that "I'd have to call out a fallacy." Which is what I did.
970	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
971When did I tell you that?
972	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
973"Well, I hate to tell you this, Socrates, but you'd have to call out a false equivalence."
974	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
975Yes. I was explaining to you how to use the correct terminology.
976	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
977Seeing as a False equivalence is a fallacy, I basically did what you said I needed to do.
978I feel like we're arguing, but we're both saying the same thing.
979	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
980Yes, except you didn't use the correct terminology because you called it the "false equivalency fallacy", which is not what it's called. I prefer plain talk when I can afford it, and when people throw around five dollar debating terms that they can't write down correctly, it annoys me.
981	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
982It's a fallacy, so why not call it what it is?
983And besides, Oxford disagrees with you on it's name.
984	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
985You're gonna try every trick in the book to not sound stupid here, aren't you?
986	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
987I'm not the one who is sounding stupid in this argument, though.
988	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
989I'm still trying to respond to your actual point, I should add.
990	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
991You're calling me out for something that Ultimately doesn't matter.
992I'm just pointing that fact out.
993	Omnee Potent - 05/04/2018
994Holy shit this pedantry
995I love it
996	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
997Hell yeah man.
998	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
999:baka:
1000	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1001Of course it doesn't matter. I'm just giving you a bit of advice on how I've seen it used, because you've put fallacy on the end before and you don't need to.
1002	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1003I don't need to, no. But it doesn't feel right to me unless I do.
1004	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1005Anyway. It's normal for young adults to dress provocatively, yes; studies have shown they're usually interested in fucking each other. And yes, waifuism is not a healthy long term approach to life, which is why most people grow out of it or end up on /wiz/chan. Saying that people can't tell the images they're bombarded with from reality is not much different from the arguments we've been having about video games or violent movies or anything else. I don't see the merit.
1006	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1007The difference between my argument, and the argument about video games and movies being violent is that mine has at least seventy years worth of evidence to back it up.
1008How did people dress in the 1940's and before?
1009[stock images of housewives and men in suits]
1010
1011Classy, dignified, respectful, people look like they actually give a damn.
1012Now, how do people dress nowadays?
1013	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1014Kek.
1015So "the 1940s and before" is just the last few decades before? I was going to talk about grass skirts and burlap sacks for at least half an hour.
1016	Omnee Potent - 05/04/2018
1017Don't forget loincloths and dirt markings
1018	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1019Not to mentions kimonos or sarongs.
1020Or tribal nudity.
1021	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1022I should have been more specific. I meant to say within the last century. Though, that could've been inferred through my earlier statement of "seventy years worth of evidence."
1023But back to the argument at hand.
1024That I'm still making.
1025	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1026Well, I find those designs stuffy, boring, hoity toity and pointless.
1027	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1028Nowadays, it's completely acceptable for men to dress like this.
1029[sexually risque or shredded fashions]
1030
1031I find these designs oversexualized, and damaged.
1032	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1033Good for you.
1034	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1035In the second pic, it's like they took some guy's pants out of a trash can and cleaned it up before putting it on the showroom floor. When did that become acceptable?
1036StarAnon - 05/04/2018
1037>Jojo fashion
1038	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1039In the first pic, the second guy's shirt literally has holes in it. Stuff like that is fine in fantasy, as that's the nature of the genre. But this is reality, and no self-respecting man should dress like that.
1040	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1041Are you going to write your congressman?
1042	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1043Ask yourself: why is popular media trying to sexualize our sense of fashion?
1044	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1045It isn't. In fact, I'll redpill you on fashion right now.
1046	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1047>redpill
1048I don't think you have the right to use that term.
1049	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1050Well, thankfully I don't believe in needing the right to a word.
1051	Omnee Potent - 05/04/2018
1052	Ace I figure you'd have agreed with the right side of the first pic
1053That looks like the sort of fashion you'd enjoy :^)
1054	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1055I will grant you that there are some brands of fashion that harken back to days of a more decent era. In fact, if I had my choice in wardrobe without cost restrictions, I'd dress like it was the 70's.
1056But there's a lot of fashions showing way more than it needs to being touted as "bold, fabulous, and popular." Motherfucker, she's just one arm movement away from a nip slip.
1057	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1058The truth is this: there are only so many ways you can put cloth on a human body, and if someone wants to outsell other people they have to create a new market by inventing new clothes. Since this is impossible to do consistently in the long run, the industry makes weird clothes temporarily with a stage of planned obsolescence a few months down the line. This way designs trend for a while, die, and can be resurrected later. In the next two hundred years you can expect periods of weird dress and periods of more sober dress, just like simpler and complex stuff pendulums back and forth on pop stations.
1059And holy shit you are such a moral busybody.
1060	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1061But is sexualizing the fashion trends really the way to go? There's ways of doing it without going to that extreme.
1062	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1063If something sold better, they'd do that instead.
1064It's not as if more conservative clothes aren't being manufactured.
1065	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1066The reason sex sells is because it's taboo. I don't think it would sell so well if Americans weren't squeamish. As much as I rag on 	Sofuto's country, I think things like the Penis festival and such definitely help build a stronger, more prosperous nation United.
1067	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1068How is sex taboo if we're all oversexed amd degenerate?
1069StarAnon - 05/04/2018
1070>In a few years sexy clothes will be retro
1071
1072	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1073We're not oversexualized and degenerate. We're being oversexualized and degenerate. We're in a process that's degrading public morality in favor of tolerance and apathy. Marriage rates are lower than ever, and divorce rates are skyrocketing. People have begun to let their ten year old daughters wear tight shorts and belly shirts while twerking in public.
1074Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying nation.
1075Public morality is directly tied to  the family unit. A strong family is the basis for a strong community.
1076A strong community is the basis for a strong nation.
1077When you degrade the morals of a nation and attack the family unit, you're weakening the bonds of a country.
1078StarAnon - 05/04/2018
1079>Clothes are corrupting our families and children!?
1080
1081	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1082Oversimplification of my argument in an effort of turning it into a Strawman.
1083StarAnon - 05/04/2018
1084I couldn't help myself:sweat_smile:
1085	Ace Sorou - 05/04/2018
1086Just making sure.
1087BRB, I'll read your argument when I come back.
1088If Discord doesn't crap out again...
1089StarAnon - 05/04/2018
1090>On today's 	Ace vs. 	Ditherer debate: "Sex Cauldron? I thought they close that pl	Ace down!"
1091	Ditherer - 05/04/2018
1092Honestly, I think you just hate the results of people's free choices, because they aren't given the choices you'd set for them, and so you're going to complain about how the world's ending because of it until someone signs your petition to make things like they were when your dad was a kid. This kind of sanctimonious busybody attitude's come before and it'll come again, and every time it's pointless, because you'd need to enforce your proposed changes with power, and anyone who spends time comparing the sexiness of little girl clothes by country and era to prove Jewish interference is never going to hold power over me. 
1093
1094And yeah, at a glance divorce rates seem to go up with the amount of wealth and technology your nation has. That tells me that most people in underdeveloped countries marry too early and can't get out. And I actually agree with you that having a family is one of the most important things in life, which is why people should do it correctly and not have one to have one because it's speshul. And I'm sure your model of the family comes from the same pl	Ace as your fedora-tipping fashion sense, which is concerning because that only offers the superficial appearance of a happy family with constant roleplaying. The real family model is the family as it's been on farmsteads and small communities for thousands of years, where the whole contributes to help each other. If you care more about a person's dinner jacket or their smoking habits than their fulfillment and potential to help, you don't have family values.
1095
1096
1097
1098
1099Debate Hall vs. Frontier Argumentation
1100
1101	Omnee Potent - 05/06/2018
1102I'm buzzed right now
1103so
1104	AusAnon - 05/06/2018
1105I'm high
1106Does that count?
1107	Omnee Potent - 05/06/2018
1108@Ace Sorou DO WHITE STRAIGHT MALES HAVE A FUTURE IN AMERICA
1109WILL WE BE REPRESSED BY THE PEOPLE WHO CURRENTLY CLAIM TO BE REPRESSED BY US
1110
1111…
1112
1113	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1114@everyone, I'm not debating anymore.
1115StarAnon - 05/06/2018
1116Why not?
1117	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1118I don't think anyone considers my arguments seriously, especially not the person who's debating me most often.
1119Basically, it works like this. If you can answer "Yes" to the following questions, then I'll debate you.
1120If not, then it's not worth it.
11211. Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?
11222. If one of your arguments is shown to be faulty, will you stop using that argument?
11233. Are you prepared to abide by the basic principles of reason when discussing this topic?
1124Again If you answer "yes" to all three of these, I will debate the topic.(edited)
1125If not, then I'm not going to bother.
1126StarAnon - 05/06/2018
1127Sounds fair enough.
1128	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1129Even if I debate someone, there's four general rules that need to be obeyed.
11301. Do not introduce new arguments where a previous argument has yet to be resolved. (I'm guilty of this too, but I try not to do it.)
11312. Do not move on to another argument if it is shown that a fact that you've relied upon is inaccurate.
11323. Provide evidence for your position or arguments.
11334. Do not argue that you do not 'need' evidence.
1134To me, violating any of these rules is an automatic concession of defeat in an argument.
1135StarAnon - 05/06/2018
1136You should like , make a sticky of these ground rules. 
1137Or open a new text channel for debate. That way they are all in the same pl	Ace to be reviewed later on.
1138	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1139That's...a good idea.
1140Done.(edited)
1141What's bad is, I do want to debate, but I feel the previously selected topic, "Do Straight White Males have a future in America" was purposely chosen because mine is a position difficult to defend, yet easy to ridicule.
1142Instead, I want to pose a different topic.(edited)
1143"Is it possible to be racist against White people?"
1144I will change my mind if presented with sufficient evidence to convince me.
1145If I have a bad argument, I won't use it anymore.
1146I will abide by the principles of reason while discussing this.
1147Now, are there any takers willing to follow me to #debates ?
1148Oh, and to clarify my position, let me introduce you to a small collection of books from my library.
1149
1150Additionally, because I still seem to not have clarified that National Socialism is not, and never has been, racist, I present you with a quote.
1151"National Socialist Racialism is not against other r	Aces, it's for it's own r	Ace. It's aimed at defending and improving its r	Ace, and wishes for all other r	Aces to do the same."(edited)
1152~Leon Degrelle, Belgian SS General and Confidante to Adolf Hitler.(edited)
1153Oh, and here's something proving my previous point in the last debate.
1154Porn is addictive. You expose your brain to dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, and epinephrine.
1155Your brain rewires yourself to accommodate the extra chemicals.
1156You build up a tolerance and dependency for the chemicals. You go from "wanting" the pleasure chemicals to feel good to "needing" them.
1157And the cycle starts again, forcing you to delve deeper and deeper into the pornographic rabbit hole.
1158You masturbate, and expose your brain to chemicals...
1159Now what does that have to do with anything?
1160Porn decreases your interest in a real relationship and increases your appetite for more porn.
116156% of all divorce cases involve at least one of the people having "an obsessive interest in pornographic websites."
1162Pornography use increases marital infidelity rates by 300%
116340% of marriages with porn addicts end in divorce.
1164More than 50% of people involved in cybersex eventually lost interest in sex with a loved one.
1165Porn is directly related to negative perceptions, attitude, and aggression against the opposite sex.
1166Twice as many people who use internet pornography are reported to have severe clinical depression compared to non-users.
1167There is a significant relationship between frequent porn use and feelings of loneliness and major depression.
116858% of addicts suffer major financial loss.(edited)
11691/3 addicts lost their jobs.
1170	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1171Prolonged exposure to pornography leads to:
1172-An exaggerated perception of sexual activity in society
1173-Less trust between intimate couples
1174-Thinking that abstinence and sexual inactivity are unhealthy
1175-Loss of hope for sexual monogamy
1176-Belief that promiscuity is normal
1177-Cynicism about love or the need for affection between partners(edited)
1178Source: https://fightthenewdrug.org/
1179Fight the New Drug
1180Scott Aneloski
1181Home - Fight the New Drug
1182
1183If you want to discuss any of the topics I just presented, tag me in #debates.(edited)
1184
1185	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1186Alright, posting now.
1187>49 new messages
1188>I'm not debating any more
1189>	Ditherer makes me sound stupid when I argue with him and I don't like it
1190>no wait, if you agree to these seven conditions I'll debate you
1191>you must accept when I tell you your argument's faulty in order to progress , or else get into an autistic stalemate with me
1192>you also can't introduce a new argument to explain why your first argument is correct to get out of that stalemate, you just have to let me win
1193>and you have to let me force you to take the burden of proof even if it doesn't belong to your side or I win automatically, nanny-nanny-boo-boo
1194>oh, and debating the question someone asked me is too hard, I'm replacing it with a paper tiger no in this chat believes
1195>also, NoFap told me porn addiction is as bad as other addictions, so there
1196>i'm totally not still arguing but here are some statistics that aren't in any way poorly constructed
1197>40% of marriages with porn addicts end in divorce (40-50% of all American marriages end in divorce - see the APA)
1198>1 in 3 addicts lose their jobs (drug addicts are the same as every other kind of addict, right? man i hate them false equivalences)
1199>Pornography use triples infidelity (correlation equals causation, right? - "the people we polled who told us they didn't cheat also said they didn't watch porn")
1200>i get to call it an addiction because muh dopamine, but anything else that produces dopamine is good and should be encouraged
1201>jerking off constantly gives you low self-esteem because muh testosterone, but somehow ejaculating in real women is magically different and never has similar effects
1202>i'm totally not arguing tho
1203Kek. Make some content.
1204	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1205>>#Debate
1206And it's not as if my rquests are unreasonable.
1207	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1208No, man. I'm not reaaally debating.
1209	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1210In fact, I've demonstrated my ability to play by those rules in my own story.
1211Hold on, BRB.\
1212Besides, it's gonna be better ultimately if I can actually see your arguments and not wade through texts from others.
1213Azzaronni - 05/06/2018
1214Juan always crosses the border first
1215
1216	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1217Go 2 #debates(edited)
1218	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1219>my rules aren't unreasonable because I say so
1220>i won't read someone explaining to me why they're retarded unless they come to #debates 
1221>no one can come to #debates unless they agree to my rules
1222Nice try.(edited)
1223Azzaronni - 05/06/2018
1224Some of you kids are alright don’t come to #debates tomorrow
1225	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1226I'm not doing this faggy shit. I don't need a set of rules to cushion me when I debate someone, because if they don't adhere to common sense I can just win.
1227	Omnee Potent - 05/06/2018
1228Happy Revenge of the Fifth guys
1229	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1230Aw, fuck, I dodged the whole May 4 meme this year!
1231Azzaronni - 05/06/2018
1232We should have a nsfw page; finally we can make /mlp/ red. Do you guys think if gook moot sent 4chan the same way little boy sent Hiroshima do you think the boards would become discord servers instead?(edited)
1233	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1234Probably, but not permanently.
1235There'd be a diaspora to whatever worked and someone would set up a new site.
1236Azzaronni - 05/06/2018
1237Honestly making a website really isn’t hard so making a 4chan.2 wouldn’t be anywhere near impossible really
1238	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1239If 4chan collapses it's probably harder than it looks(edited)
1240Azzaronni - 05/06/2018
1241That’s my only counter point to my original point 4chan is a simple site, you find what you like, ponies, find your favourite thread, JoJo ponies, and you go and do shit on that thread it’s a cake walk compared to sites like linked in or Twitter (different types of websites but meh)
1242	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1243Yeah, the big problem sounds like getting moderators without the clout to naturally pick up janitors.
1244	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1245Back.
1246So what did I miss?
1247Preferably, before my Discord shits out again.
1248	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1249I've muted your debate channel and will not be present in it, because I think creating it was a bitch move. If you wanna give up on fighting me then just do it.
1250	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1251>Implying that what I'm asking is unreasonable
1252Kek.
1253	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1254It is, and if you don't want to read my explanation why then you don't have to.
1255	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1256But you're the one who had to run away and come back with a list of asks to do a fucking 4chan debate, and that's a basic bitch move.
1257	Omnee Potent - 05/06/2018
1258Take it to the debate channel you fucks
1259Let me enjoy my shitposting in pe	Ace
1260	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1261This ain't hallowed ground.
1262	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1263Firstly, you've basically created strawmen for every point I made, and attacked them rather than the points themselves.
1264And now you're using that as an excuse to mute the channel.
1265	Omnee Potent - 05/06/2018
1266Shitposting ground is the most hallowed ground
1267	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1268Secondly, the reason I had to leave was because my father needed me to do something, and I have a life outside of you guys.
1269So I can't really control when I need to leave.
1270Thirdly, if you actually read the things I ask in the debate channel, you'll find that it isn't too unreasonable.
1271Basically, it all boils down to "Don't be a dick, and treat the other person and their argument with respect."
1272If you can't do that, then I don't see any point in debating you.
1273	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1274Four hours ago you were giving up on debating me completely. Now you're trying to redefine what a debate with you should be so you won't lose. I read your 7 conditions, and they deny the real distribution of the burden of proof and the validity of sub-arguments, so if you and someone else disagree you get to have an autistic stalemate until they give up or you declare that you won.
1275I don't treat your arguments with respect. I want to beat them. This ain't Reddit.
1276	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1277"The real distribution of burden of proof, and the validity of subarguments"
1278Please define these.
1279	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1280Since you can't scroll upwards, let me repost what I'm talking about.
1281>you must accept when I tell you your argument's faulty in order to progress , or else get into an autistic stalemate with me
1282>you also can't introduce a new argument to explain why your first argument is correct to get out of that stalemate, you just have to let me win
1283>and you have to let me force you to take the burden of proof even if it doesn't belong to your side or I win automatically, nanny-nanny-boo-boo
1284	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1285Straw man, straw man, straw man.
1286That's not how things are.
1287	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1288Then why do you need the rules, buddy?
1289	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1290Because I want to have a Civil Discourse.
1291Let me explain.
1292	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1293Yeah, cus you can't win an uncivil one.
1294	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1295Because a decent human being would like to be civil.
1296Anyway...
1297Debates are  a dialogue between two people or groups in which the participants are willing to alter their position if it makes sense to do so.
1298Sometimes, people confuse a debate with a contest, a sermon, or a lecture.
1299	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1300Or an argument.
1301	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1302These non-debates are a waste of time, since all parties are intractable in their existing views.
1303So that our time is not wasted, I set down some guidelines so that we may better understand one another, and stay civil. And with Star's suggestion, I moved it to another channel so as to not upset the people having a discussion in this channel.
1304	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1305If your points have merit you can convince people of things no matter what kind of discussion you're having.
1306	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1307Hold on, I'm being smmoned away. i'll ne back.\
1308	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1309And even real debates with moderators and time limits are entrenched. The point is to provide a show for onlookers and try to convince them.
1310Librarianon - 05/06/2018
1311poking my head in to say finals are almost done and I have a better stand name for one stand
1312[PINK] is now [FALL OUT BOY]
1313see you guys in 3 days
1314	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1315But the actual truth is that if you felt you were winning against me you wouldn't suddenly be clutching your pearls about decency and civility and trying to invent a list of preconditions to having a debate with you. I'm not telling you that you can't do that, I'm just saying no one has to sign a waiver of (((reasonable requests))) to hash out a disagreement with me because I'm not a bitchboy.
1316StarAnon - 05/06/2018
1317Go win to finals Librarianon!
1318	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1319Yeah, good luck mane.
1320I don't need my opponents to handicap themselves according to a list of etiquette rules I pull out of my ass, because if they're wrong I can just provide a better argument.
1321
1322
1323	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1324Back.
1325Funny you should mention real debates with real moderators, 	Ditherer.
1326Because real debates have rules too.
1327	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1328In fact, according to the National Speech & Debate association, a proper debate has...pretty much the same rules I listed.
1329
1330
1331	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1332I chose not to debate that topic, because like I said, it would be too difficult to defend. The reason it would be too difficult to defend is because of what you call "Sub-arguments" which would crop up from me defending that. So many, in fact, would crop up, that it would be impossible to tell anyone's points, and as I correctly surmised, you just seemed to want a reason to ridicule me, if that above post is any indication. Instead, I suggested starting off with a Sub-argument that I knew would crop up from the argument suggested. And what's more, I instilled a list of rules that mimic the NS&DA's guidelines, thinking that, if you were as big a proponent of having a real debate with me as you make yourself out to be, you'd agree with. The fact that you don't agree with those rules tells me you don't have the ability to actually debate in a real arena. You just care about one thing: Winning. And to win, you have to ridicule your opponent with Ad-hominems and strawmen, something that these rules forbid. It seems to me you're just afraid of putting on your big boy pants, stepping out of your comfort zone, and challenging yourself, but that's just my observation.(edited)
1333	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1334You're right, when someone tells me that little girl clothes are getting sexier over time because the Jews want to put perverted thoughts in his head, I will ridicule him for saying that. And I don't blame you for not taking a position that's hard to defend, because clearly you need all the help you can get. But if you weren't a little bitch, you wouldn't hsve thrown a hissyfit vagueposting about me, then reinvented the rules of debate, then tried to take the last word anyway. I have no idea how you survived 5 minutes on /pol/ if this is the bitch-tier level you're at, but it's disappointing. If I were using strawmen you wouldn't have cried and run away and started pissing and moaning like an SJW about how you deserve respect and everyone should be civil.
1335	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1336Funny, you think that I'm being that self centered. The truth is, I can't keep track of your posts. If I could, I'd be responding to each and every one of them. However, with the fast p	Ace of the General, combined with the fact that I have a life, this is proving increasingly difficult to do. Often times, I either have to go to bed at a reasonable hour, or leave the house for long periods of time. And by the time I get back, the topic has moved on, and it would be very rude of me to bring the topic back up. So i just let it drop until the next inevitable debate. Your post seems to indicate that you have no life outside your computer, as you just assume I sit here crying every time you make a post. And that's the problem I'm trying to address. You don't see me as a person, you see me as a name on a computer screen. You assume that I never leave my computer for any reason. You...actually sound like you're projecting, now that I think about it.
1337	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1338You sure talk a lot of shit for someone who couldn't come tell this to me in the first pl	Ace like a man.
1339	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1340I thought I did.
1341Several weeks ago.(edited)
1342In fact, I've mentioned haniging out with my girlfriend, helping my dad, or going to run an errand over the course of the last month.
1343Several times.
1344It would be unreasonable to take your stance with this evidence glaring in your f	Ace.
1345	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1346>"I-I just can't debate here anymore. The person who debates me the most won't take me seriously!"
1347	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1348You don't, do you?(edited)
1349	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1350I debate people cus it's fun and not time consuming. If you're such a poor baby that you can't scroll upwards and bring back an old topic, go do something productive and stop whining.
1351	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1352I do more productive things in an hour of my day than you do in your week.
1353I debate because I want to get to know people.
1354Because I think that's fun.
1355	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1356Your word count, your income, your job, your hobbies and your number of kids for your age say otherwise.
1357	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1358Have you worked on a motorcycle today? Put together a Gym bench? Practiced boxing? Hauled the trash? Played with your little sister? Created 3d renders? Told off a con-artist?
1359Paid off a house?
1360I didn't think so.
1361	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1362How many raps you made this week? How many books? Have you been an editor? A publisher? A radio host? A poet?
1363	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
13642 books in my lifetime. Both self published. And yes, I was a radio host a few years back.
1365	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1366>self published
1367Kek
1368	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1369At least I'm a publisher.
1370	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1371Your grasp of English continues to delight me.
1372But alright.
1373If you're so busy, go do something else.
1374	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1375I'm not busy. This is my downtime. I choose to spend it here trying to get to know people I want to be friends with.
1376Obviously, you don't share my sentiment.
1377	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1378No, I don't really believe in downtime like that. I'm serious about the things I make.
1379	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1380And I'm not?
1381	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1382How close is that comic to publication since the time you started talking about it? How long since your last chapter?
1383The thing about writing's that there's an audience, and they don't care if you were fixing up your motorcycle.
1384	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1385If I work too much on it, I burn myself out. However, it's getting closer. Those 3D renders are eventually going to become Youtube videos of cartoons of my characters.
1386	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1387In two weeks? Three months? A year?
1388	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1389I've given up on trying to find an artist, so I'm just gonna go and make cartoon.s
1390And Actually, I should have something by next month.
1391I recently started Blender.
1392I found I'm pretty good with it.
1393	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1394Well, good on you, then. But I don't give up on the things I start.
1395	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1396Let me put it this way.
1397Why should I pay someone else to draw my ideas?
1398I'll do it myself.
1399	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1400So readers can read them.
1401	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1402Like I said, I'll do it myself.
1403	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1404I'll believe it when I see it, but I hope that works out.
1405	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1406Thanks for that, I suppose.
1407	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1408No problem.
1409	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1410But I'm still not buying a podium and combing through Robert's Rules of Order to tell someone they're retarded in an anime horse chatroom.
1411	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1412Let's put it this way: If something was presented that sounded more logical than what you currently believe, would you believe the new thing, or continue believing the old thing?(edited)
1413	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1414Not necessarily. Things can sound more logical without being more logical, that was one of Schopenhauer's biggest points. If you're asking if I would change my mind if I were convinced I was wrong, then yes.
1415	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1416Then there shouldn't be a problem with you and those rules.
1417	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1418That's not an enforcable debating rule, though, it's just a principle.
1419I've explained three times now why those rules aren't useful. Burden of proof is not always on both sides, so both sides don't always need evidence. And there's no reason to force the debate to stay on one argument at a time unless you want to stop people bringing up tangential points or restating themselves after you've tried to Gotcha them. I watch real debates every now and then, and they don't involve either of those rules. Or that you have to be ope to changing your mind.
1420This argument we've just been having skipped across seventeen different issues like a stone on a lake. I'm not interested in drilling down into every one of them.
1421	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1422If a position presents evidence to both refute the claim of the opposing position, and has evidence to support it's own, where does the burden of proof reside?
1423	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1424The burden of proof is not about the arguments, it's a starting position. If you say "Aliens are visiting Earth" and I say "I don't believe you", your argument cannot be "Well, can you prove they're not?"
1425	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1426That's a fallacy, though, and you're well within your rights to call someone out on that shit.
1427I've had it happen to me.(edited)
1428In fact, I did that in the past. And I try not to do it now.
1429	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1430Then why does someone not bringing evidence to the table disqualify them? If you tell me Jews run the planet and I don't believe you, I could have an entire argument simply dismantling your points enough to allow my doubt to continue unimpeded, without introducing any evidence.
1431I could 12 Angry Men you, in other words.
1432	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1433It's when someone does bring evidence, then someone else has to try and refute that evidence.
1434It could be that neither party brings evidence.
1435You could go through an entire debate without evidence.
1436But here's the thing: "12 Angry Menning" people is evidence.
1437If you can refute a position without citing sources, except for, I suppose, mathematical proof, then that counts.
1438	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1439If you define evidence that loosely and both sides could just not have it entirely, why is there a rule for it?
1440	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1441Because there's morons that say "I don't have to provide evidence."
1442And don't even try to defend their arguments.
1443	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1444Sometimes they don't. The burden of proof should also be determined on prior probabilities, of how often a class of claim has turned out to actually be correct.
1445	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1446I get what you're saying. The more outrageous the claim, the more evidence is needed to support it, right?(edited)
1447	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1448Partly, but even a claim that could happen in reality, like someone faking their death, needs to be compared to the batting average of claims like it over history.
1449	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1450That makes sense. Generally, when it comes to evidence, I like to think that the position that is more reasonably constructed and has more supporting evidence is true.
1451Ergo, if someone were to make a claim to me, they'd better have substantial evidence to convince me of their position.
1452If I were others, I would assume this is true as well.
1453	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1454Maybe it is. But you introduced these rules to change the way arguments would happen to you, and that doesn't sound any different from what we were already doing.
1455	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1456Oh shit, i'm rambling, sorry.
1457No, I introduced the rules;
14581. to make sure no one says anything they'll regret later,
14592. to ensure no one resorts to fallacies
1460and 3. to make it so that, for those out there who want to actually keep score, there's established parameters for "losing."
1461Personally, so long as some sort of revelation about the world around us occurs, I think everyone "wins."
1462But that's just me.
1463	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1464I don't see the utility of these, then. If someone uses a fallacy, you can just point it out. If they say something they'd regret, then they'll have to live with it. And if they lose in any measurable sense, it should be clear to anyone watching. Loss by fiat isn't needed.
1465You told me that this was an area outside my comfort zone, but I don't see anything different.
1466	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1467I want to make sure the "loss" isn't from popular consent, and that everyone remains civil.
1468I'd like to think we're all friends here.
1469	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1470"Popular consent"?
1471	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1472Someone can have some pretty outstanding arguments that everyone agrees with, but if he slips up, and onlookers ignore it and he wins, then the one who won did so because everyone agreed with him.
1473Ignoring that his argument may have fallen apart from his mistake.
1474	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1475No, he'd win because his opponent didn't press the advantage.
1476	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1477There could be that.
1478But the rules are just kind of like a "passive moderator." They're there to keep things civil and honest.
1479	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1480If the winner doesn't get people to agree with his points and the loser does, that sounds like a busted system.
1481	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1482And the reason I included "Do not introduce new arguments where old ones have not been resolved" is because someone can build a group of arguments based on their first.
1483But if the first is flawed, then their entire premise falls apart.
1484That's why you need to resolve the first argument before moving on.
1485The second rule is simple: Let me use an example from my story.
1486	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1487Then you could just resolve the first argument and use it as a general proof to destroy the cluster.
1488	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1489Ever heard the expression "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit?"
1490Someone could make so many arguments based on the first, that you forget that the first has yet to be proven flawed or not.
1491	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1492Yes, I know the Gish Gallop, but that's not what you were just talking about.(edited)
1493	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1494I don't understand, I'm repeating "But if the first is flawed, then their entire premise falls apart." Except I'm throwing in the possibility that someone introduces those new arguments in rapid succession that you forget about the first argument.
1495Some people even try to actively downplay it because they know the first argument is wrong.
1496It keeps people honest.
1497	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1498That's a problem in a formal debate, yes, but in text you can't forget what someone said ten minutes ago.
1499	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1500It's still a good habit to practice. If I ever get good at putting my thoughts into spoken words, I want to have this habit of focusing on one argument at a time. Even in text, however, it is difficult to keep track of multiple arguments at once, and can often confuse or burn out people to the point where they can concede out of weariness.
1501I've had that happen to me, and made that happen to others.
1502I found it rather dishonest of me when I did it, and decided I wasn't gonna do it again.
1503	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1504I'm still not seeing where the difference comes in. You were hyping this up to me after I called you a bitch, about how I wasn't gonna be able to beat you and it'd be a real challenge, but so far nothing you've protected against is something I've done.
1505	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1506Well I'm glad.(edited)
1507The second thing I'm protecting against is someone using an argument that has already been proven false.
1508The third rule is pretty self explanatory, and is a good guideline.
1509The fourth rule reinforces the third.
1510If you don't have a problem with any of these, then why block off #debates?
1511	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1512Well first, you've backtracked on 3 and 4 to the point that they're really "Don't argue that you don't need evidence, except when you don't, and even then providing a reason to doubt also counts too."
1513	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1514Second, these rules don't seem to do anything. What you call my strawmen are reductio ad absurdum arguments, which are my weapon of choice. And what you call ad hominem is nothing of the kind - I call you names in addition to telling you why you're wrong, not as a substitute, so it's not a fallacy. Your rules don't address the problems you were trying to solve in the first pl	Ace, and even though you claimed you were the only one who followed them, you have yet to list one I've broken, so they seem ornamental at best and pointless at worst.
1515Third, I just don't agree with the reason it was set up. Calling at-everyone to declare that you won't debate, except if people follow your rules, is just a scummy move to me. So is taking the last word so you can automatically tell anyone who responds to go to #debates and make them.play by your rules, and so is telling me how uncivil and awful and childish I am when I finally caught you out instead of just PMing me to say you don't like the way our debates go and don't want to keep doing them if they have to be that way.
1516Honestly, I was hoping that you'd snap and start shouting some hardcore /pol/ shit at me while you readied the banhammer, because that would make for a funny story and would free up my schedule a little, but if you want to resolve this pe	Acefully then I'm just not open to doing that and I'd rather have occasional and organic arguments with people in #general.(edited)
1517	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1518First, yes, you can argue without evidence, but why would you? That's just a "Yeah-huh" "Nuh-uh" argument played on infinity.
1519Secondly, You didn't actually break any of the rules yet, I was mostly just trying to goad you when I said that.
1520Thirdly, I was winging it at the time. I at first had no intention of debating anymore, and I knew it would disappoint people, so I called everyone, because I felt it was a huge announcement. But then I felt that 'If I'm gonna stay here, I'm gonna get into a debate, especially with how everyone else behaves.' It's in my nature, I can't fight it, so why kid myself, y'know?
1521And finally, I'm not so shallow as to ban someone for disagreeing with me. I'm sorry you don't want to resolve things, but I now know to stop pursuing a pe	Aceful resolution.(edited)
1522	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1523I know you were trying to goad me, which is why it didn't work. You can't fuck with the master of shitting on people's couches. And I think if I kicked you in the shins persistently enough, you might.
1524	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1525Don't get me wrong, you will be banned if you end up being a pain in the ass to everyone in the chat, but I don't see that happening.
1526I like to think I'm not vapid enough to fall for that. And even if I did, you'd only be banned temporarily.
1527	Ditherer - 05/06/2018
1528Alright then, back to Touhou hour.
1529	AusAnon - 05/06/2018
1530>Debates channel gets made
1531>Debates continue to occure in general cat
1532*chat
1533	Ace Sorou - 05/06/2018
1534I tried.
1535
1536
1537The Blair Witch Project vs. Film Theorists
1538
1539
1540	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:41 PM
1541>me when people in church start talking about open borders
1542
1543	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:42 PM
1544>not living on an island country with no borders at all
1545lmao
1546	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:43 PM
1547Also, about the school shooting today...
1548
1549	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:44 PM
1550"yeah but video games tho"
1551- karen from pta that believes vaccines cause autism
1552	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:44 PM
1553I got a video disproving that.
1554	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:45 PM
1555disproving what
1556vaccines causing autism
1557or vaccines not causing autism
1558	Ditherer - Yesterday at 9:45 PM
1559Keemstar said that's not true, 	Sofuto.
1560	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:45 PM
1561That its video games causing shootings.
1562	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:45 PM
1563what
1564what are you two talking about
1565please run it by me again because i don't understand
1566dith in particular
1567	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:46 PM
1568People saying "video games cause shootings" can be disproven through a video I have.
1569	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:46 PM
1570well they fucken don't
1571i already know that
1572TOUHOU CAUSED 9/11
1573	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:48 PM
1574
1575Megumin did 9/11.
1576	Ditherer - Yesterday at 9:54 PM
1577Found the video.
1578https://youtube.com/watch?v=9r9bmQTAClY
1579YouTube
1580Zachary Allen
1581Social studies project:Video games dont cause Violence - Part 3
1582
1583	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:54 PM
1584Mine is from GT.
1585	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:55 PM
1586>game theory
1587>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fucking game theory
1588	Ditherer - Yesterday at 9:56 PM
1589Holy shit, the channel I wish I could skullfuck to death next to CinemaSins.
1590I can't learn about von Neumann or Nash equilibria for shit without seeing those tards!
1591https://youtube.com/watch?v=ax7Kv4GazBY
1592YouTube
1593FForgiven Sinz
1594video games do not cause violence
1595
1596	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:57 PM
1597This game theory video actually took information from fans of the series who played violent video games, and constructed a reasonable theory based on the results.
1598In other words, scientific evidence.
1599	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:57 PM
1600yeah
1601but
1602wario is fucking TEN FEET TALL
1603THOSE FUCKING DDLC VIDEOS
1604THOSE GODDAMN MARIO IS A MURDERER WHICH WAS FALSE
1605FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1606if theres
1607	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1608Now Mat has acknowledged his mistakes In the past, especially on Wario. But his research is solid.
1609FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1610one videos of his
1611which i liked
1612is the theroy that the og mario from the donkey kong games and pauline is his mum and pop
1613i fuck with that
1614but everything else
1615	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1616	Ace
1617FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1618i kinda didn;'t care for
1619	Ditherer - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1620>they took a self-reported sample from fans of them
1621>then made a """theory""" afterward instead of testing a prediction beforehand
1622This is why people need to learn design of experiments before we let them out of school.
1623	Sofuto - Yesterday at 9:58 PM
1624this is not on, mate
1625game theory deteriorated with all the fnaf videos
1626this is a fact
1627	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 9:59 PM
1628Just watch the video yourself, see if you can find a problem with their methodology.
1629https://youtu.be/rgV5OX9sKao
1630YouTube
1631The Game Theorists
1632Game Theory: Does Fortnite Make You VIOLENT? (Fortnite Battle Royale)
1633
1634	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:00 PM
1635I won't dispute that some of their videos are trash.
1636Hell, I can point out the For Honor one, for example.
1637	Sofuto - Yesterday at 10:00 PM
1638>fortnite
1639come on
1640just
1641look man come on
1642	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1643How likely is a fan of the Game Theorists to report that video games make them more violent? How would they know for certain? How would they measure that, at home, in a trustworthy way?
1644	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1645I'm a fan, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says.
1646	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1647This is Buzzfeed.
1648	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1649However.
1650	Sofuto - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1651french help me i'm gonna swerve in 0.000043 nanoseconds on a nigga
1652	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1653When Mat does good work, I will acknowledge it.(edited)
1654FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:01 PM
1655there's this one theroy i hate from game theroy its from his film theory channel
1656and it's the theroy that there's no supernatural elements in the blair witch film, and that the two dudes were just planning to kill the girl the whole time, and the whole fgilm is just them slowly planning their murder
16571 being that
1658if you look
1659on the fucking website
1660for the movie
1661it heavily implies that there is a superjnatural element in the film
1662	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:03 PM
1663Look, just watch the video. I can't actually have this discussion if you don't know what you're talking about.
1664FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:03 PM
1665canoicall;y the way they found the video for the film was in an archeological dig site miles away from the forrest, that the archelogist found deep when they were digging
1666the website has many more occurences of this that point to it of being a supernatural force
1667but people STILL
1668	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:03 PM
1669My big beef with GT is just the name. It's like if Pewdiepie was named "Sports Medicine", so any time you wanted to find educational material about treating football inhuries, you had to fight through this slog of guessing game bullshit for 12 year olds.
1670FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:03 PM
1671regugitate this shitty theory
1672and it pisses me off
1673	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:04 PM
1674I know I'm probably gonna catch flak for this, but...
1675A theory doesn't have to be good or popular in order to exist.
1676It just has to have solid evidence to support it.
1677FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:05 PM
1678that doesn't mean its not a shit theroy
1679	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:05 PM
1680I'm not disputing that.(edited)
1681	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:05 PM
1682Isn't having solid evidence what makes a theory good?
1683FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:05 PM
1684^
1685literally this
1686	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:07 PM
1687If that's your criteria, then why is the film theory on BWP shit?
1688It's got some good supporting evidence, after all.
1689FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:07 PM
1690no it does not
1691because all the evidence is blown aweay by rthe fact that if you take
1692five minutes
1693	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:07 PM
1694Objectively incorrect.
1695FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:07 PM
1696to research thwe movie
1697and the website
1698you see ther IS
1699a sup[ernatural entity
1700trying to kill them
1701add that to the fact that there is no actual reason or evidence as to why they would kill her in the first fucking pl	Ace
1702	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:09 PM
1703It could be argued that all of those statements of supernatural entities were fabricated by the brothers. You need to learn to read between the lines.
1704FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:10 PM
1705no
1706literally no
1707	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:10 PM
1708I like how your only argument is "no."
1709FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:11 PM
1710these tjhings on the website were made after the dissapperances the website is used to search for more info on what happnned to them, the fucking niggas who made the movies themselves literally made this movie with a supernatural aspect in mind
1711the theroy is genuinley a shit theory
1712	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:12 PM
1713Except there's nothing truly supernatural displayed in the movie that doesn't have a more rational and reasonable explanation.
1714	Sofuto - Yesterday at 10:12 PM
1715occam's razor
1716	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:12 PM
1717Exactly.
1718	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:14 PM
1719Death of the author is a waste of time.
1720	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:17 PM
1721Maybe Mat's theory isn't a shit theory, but BWP is just a shit movie. If it wasn't, then it would be far more obvious there's a paranormal entity after them.
1722I mean, I watch a ghost story, and I expect to see a ghost.
1723	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:17 PM
1724Kek
1725	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:17 PM
1726I never saw the Blair Witch once.
1727	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:17 PM
1728Maybe Michael Bay should've directed it.
1729	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:18 PM
1730Would probably be an improvement.
1731	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:18 PM
1732Are you counting down to the next Purge movie?
1733	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:18 PM
1734No, I didn't really like that movie.
1735Thought it was a little tasteless.
1736But that's just me.
1737	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:19 PM
1738Damn. What's another shitty one? Annabelle?
1739FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:19 PM
1740>i never saw the blair witch
1741how could you literally argue about a movie you NEVER SAW
1742	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:19 PM
1743You misunderstood me
1744	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:20 PM
1745No, he means he blinked at the end.
1746	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:20 PM
1747I never saw the Blair Witch in a movie called the Blair Witch Project.
1748And it can be argued the thing at the end was one of the brothers wearing a mask.
1749Which is much more reasonable than some ghost chasing them.
1750	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:21 PM
1751Yes, if you wanted to ruin the point of the movie.
1752Fuck, that reminds me.
1753	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:21 PM
1754Can't ruin the point of a movie that's already ruined to begin with.
1755Honestly, I like the theory because it makes watching the movie much more interesting. That is, if you watch it with the theory in mind.
1756In fact, I think the theory makes the movie better.(edited)
1757	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:27 PM
1758Yeah, it takes energy and concentration to watch experimental atmospheric horror, better to mangle the plot to make it a stupidly convoluted snuff tape for nobody by two guys with an old lady Halloween mask.
1759https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZZEJ3T3ryQY
1760YouTube
1761Myconius Maximus
1762Grant Morrison Explains Realism in Comics
1763
1764	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:28 PM
1765Honestly, I think the belief that the Blair Witch is after them is more convoluted than a theory that two guys want a girl dead.
1766"Oh no, we weren't out there trying to kill anyone, there was this witch ghost coming after us, trying to kill us all!"
1767I call bullshit.
1768FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:29 PM
1769its a horror movie my nigga like
1770maybe if this weas a slasher fic
1771i could belive that
1772but its not
1773	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:30 PM
1774It can still be a horror movie, if you look at it as a conspiracy to kill someone.
1775FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:30 PM
1776its found footage film about ghost witch
1777it's not hard to comprehend
1778	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:30 PM
1779A ghost witch you never actually see, and never does anything a normal human can't do.
1780If it's a ghost story, I wanna see some ghosty shit.
1781If it's a witch story, I wanna see some witchy shit.
1782FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:31 PM
1783>if i don't see the thing it's not thing
1784that's incredibly stupid
1785	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:31 PM
1786What I don't wanna see is some atmospheric ambiguity that just about everyone can pull off.
1787THAT is stupid
1788FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:32 PM
1789do you think cloverfield isn't a monster movie cause you dont see the monster untill the end
1790	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:32 PM
1791No, because it's pretty obvious that there's something there. Also, false equivalency.
1792FrenchAnon - Yesterday at 10:32 PM
1793wh
1794	Ace you hurt my head dude
1795	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:33 PM
1796You want to be artsy about something paranormal? There's ways of doing that without making the movie look like one big prank gone wrong.
1797StarAnon - Yesterday at 10:34 PM
1798You know, I've only seen the movie once a long time ago on a rented VHS, but I always thought the point of the movie was to debate whether the witch was real or not.
1799	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:34 PM
1800The witch never did anything a normal human couldn't do.
1801The Cloverfield monster on the other hand did things that dragged in the military and destroyed a city
1802That's why it's a false equivalency.
1803If the witch was a witch, why didn't I see things I could only associate with witchcraft?
1804	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:36 PM
1805Because the filmmakers had more faith in you.
1806So is the guy facing the corner in the last minute just taking a piss, or what?
1807	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:37 PM
1808He's getting ready to murder the girl with the help of his brother.
1809	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:37 PM
1810How?
1811	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:37 PM
1812The video is a red herring, a false lead to make you think there's something else coming after them.
1813He's acting.
1814	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:38 PM
1815By standing and staring at a corner? That's his big plan?
1816	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:38 PM
1817It makes you focus on the wrong thing.
1818Thanks for demonstrating
1819	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:39 PM
1820Why does he need to seem innocent if he disappeared just like she did? Why does a tape need to surf	Ace that clears his name of something no one would accuse him of?
1821	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:40 PM
1822Because without the tape, they'd be prime suspects in her disappearance.
1823Anyone can disappear.
1824And maybe, become someone else?
1825	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:41 PM
1826Well, if there's nothing witchy in it, clearly they're still prime suspects.
1827	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:41 PM
1828You never actually see anyone except the girl get killed, after all.
1829Hold on, brb.(edited)
1830	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:42 PM
1831So the witch has to be believable for your theory to work, but you start it because the witch is so unbelievable.
1832	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:44 PM
1833What is unbelievable about the witch? Name one thing she has supposedly done that a normal human can't do.
1834	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:45 PM
1835Warp sp	Ace, control a guy to stand in a corner and wait to die, make rocks appear, make inhuman noises in the distance...
1836>But how do you know that's supernatural?
1837Because there are other stories in this universe where supernatural shit does happen.
1838	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:47 PM
1839>Warp sp	Ace
1840When?
1841>Control a guy
1842>Implying someone was controlling him
1843>Make rocks appear
1844I can do that. I can go out in the woods, grab a few rocks, and make them appear with the magic of camera edits.
1845>Make inhuman noises
1846I make inhuman noises in the toilet after eating Chinese takeout, big whoop.
1847>Stories
1848Without supporting evidence, that all a story is. Just a story.
1849	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:48 PM
1850No, you sperg, I mean other works of fiction in the same setting.
1851StarAnon - Yesterday at 10:48 PM
1852Like the second movie?
1853	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:48 PM
1854That and a book series at least.
1855	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:49 PM
1856Alright, so is there supporting evidence in the movie that, I don't know, appears to support the stories in that universe?
1857I'm just saying, looking at it from a skeptic's point of view, there's a rational explanation for just about everything displayed in that movie.
1858	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:52 PM
1859>is there supporting evidence in the movie that appears to support the stories in that universe?
1860I need a diagram and some Ibuprofen.
1861The problem is that there was a point to the movie, to trying to reinvent horror on a shoestring budget and hijack the audience's imagination to provide scares they didn't have money for, and it's going to take off your head if it flies any lower.
1862	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:53 PM
1863Don't get me wrong, it's scary.
1864But not for the reasons that there's a ghost witch going after them.
1865It's scary because when I saw it, I thought those two guys were gonna kill that girl with the way they were going on.
1866Seriously, how they treated each other is NOT how you treat someone you're on good terms with.
1867	Ditherer - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
1868I thought the amazing Film Theorists gave you that interpretation.
1869	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:55 PM
1870No, I had that interpretation, and I still thought the movie sucked.
1871But the film theory just put my thoughts into words.
1872And even covered some things I didn't think of.
1873Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
1874Did you know that historical evidence says that ninja could fly, turn into snakes, and merge into walls?
1875	Sofuto - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
1876i can confirm this
1877i am a ninja(edited)
1878	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 10:59 PM
1879They can't, but they use the equivalent of smoke and mirrors to produce such phenomenon.
1880This is the same thing happening in Blair Witch project.
1881StarAnon - Yesterday at 11:00 PM
1882>i am a ninja
1883For a moment I thought I read something else.
1884	Sofuto - Yesterday at 11:01 PM
1885i am a ningen
1886i am a iwa-ningen
1887	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:03 PM
1888BRB, taking my Girlfriend home.
1889	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:05 PM
1890Except it's by two college students with one of the worst alibis in history, where they only aren't suspected because they're assumed dead too. There are a dozen easier ways to fake your death on camera, and to make the tape easy to find so people don't come after you before they can find it, and to kill someone than hitting them on the head while one of you sits in time out to distract them. For your theory to work, they would have to want to waste days of time walking in the woods provoking a search party, and do things the hard way in such a way that their alibi becomes less believable and more likely to be seen as fake by a skeptic. Why not just have one of them go out in the woods and come out as the car door hook hand guy and kill the girl while she's holding the camera?
1891Brb, picking my wife up.
1892Okay, I'm back.
1893
1894StarAnon - Yesterday at 11:11 PM
1895Plushagio
1896	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:31 PM
1897Back
1898And to answer your question...
1899Well, you already did.
1900There's already stories of the Blair Witch in Blair County.
1901Which means they can use local legends to throw people off their trail.
1902So they spend time fabricating evidence with their video camera to make it seem less like they did it, and more like the Blair Witch did it.
1903And lo and behold, it worked.
1904If you're any indication.
1905By the way, did you know the word "Gullible" is written on your ceiling?(edited)
1906Nah, I'm messing with you when I say that.
1907	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:41 PM
1908Yeah, and there are legends of the hand hook car door guy. Do you think people can fake their deaths by dressing up like him and not get investigated by the police?
1909	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:42 PM
1910Well, if you're good enough, you can hide the body for a long time, and the police won't be able to find anything on you.
1911	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:42 PM
1912Not if you film it.
1913	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:42 PM
1914They never actually filmed where the bodies were buried.
1915They just filmed something related to local legends.
1916And everyone being superstitious,  from the residents to the local sheriff's office, believes that the Blair Witch is responsible.
1917Blair Witch 2, by the way, is marginally better than 1. It could've done without the drama.
1918	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:45 PM
1919Except they left an alibi by burying it in the woods, making themselves suspects in this girl's disappearance until someone happened to find the tape, if they did happen to.
1920If they wanted her dead and an alibi they could run away with, why not just dress up as a serial killer and kill her in the middle of the woods, so there's no room for skepticism?
1921	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:46 PM
1922There's still room for skepticism. More room than pinning it on the Blair Witch.
1923THe Blair Witch legend is already known, and feared in the area.
1924They just made themselves look like victims of her.
1925No bodies were ever recovered, which means they're all assumed dead.
1926My guess is that only one is dead, and the other two ran off with new identities.
1927It's what I would do if I were them.
1928	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:48 PM
1929Except they'd be investigated as missing persons until someone found the tape. And their supposed means of killing her involves a few days of random wilderness trekking while giving people time to notice that she's missing before they make a getaway.
1930	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:49 PM
1931Now you're assuming the search parties started up while they were still filming.
1932	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:49 PM
1933No, I'm not.
1934I don't have to assume. If I were planning a murder that meticulously, the risk would be obvious.
1935	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:50 PM
1936So you have evidence that the search parties were going while they were filming?
1937	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:50 PM
1938You've missed the point again.
1939	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:51 PM
1940"For your theory to work, they would have to want to waste days of time walking in the woods provoking a search party"
1941I'm doing what now?
1942	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:51 PM
1943Missing. The. Point.
1944	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:52 PM
1945(Nice deflection, by the way.)
1946No, go on. Explain your point.
1947	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:53 PM
1948>	Ditherer is typing...
1949>d-deflection
1950Oh for fuck's sake.
1951	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:54 PM
1952I'm just saying, you're doing good at dodging potential bad stances.
1953I really do want to hear your point.
1954	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:55 PM
1955Then stop filibustering.
1956	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:55 PM
1957Alright, fine.
1958	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:57 PM
1959The idea of "provoking a search party" does not require a search party to show up to be important in a plan. If you took ten hours to kill someone that it would take one hour to kill, you risk police showing up to the scene of the crime. If you have a theory that super intelligent criminals just happened to also be retarded about how to kill efficiently and wasted nine hours they didn't need to against their own best interests, and I say "That increases the risk of police arriving and ruining their plan," it's a non sequitur to start asking me for proof that the police were mobilized. Even if every policeman were busy that particular day, it's still a retarded plan that would only work through luck.
1960	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:58 PM
1961But for that stance to work, you'd have to assume that the police knew a murder was taking pl	Ace to begin with.
1962	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:58 PM
1963That's true.
1964	Ace Sorou - Yesterday at 11:58 PM
1965There's literally thousands of missing persons cases at any one time in a given precinct.
1966What's one more?
1967	Ditherer - Yesterday at 11:59 PM
1968...You don't know how missing persons cases are investigated, do you?
1969	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:00 AM
1970I'm just saying, by the time a missing persons case is investigated, it's gone through some level of red tape.
1971	Ditherer - Today at 12:00 AM
1972The most effort goes into the first 48 hours after a report arrives. They don't shrug their shoulders and say "To hell with it."
1973	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:00 AM
1974Bureaucracy can often grind the gears of action to a halt.
1975And for a missing persons case to become a missing persons case, the person in question has to be missing for a set amount of time.
1976I once went to a restaurant while my family was visiting New York City.
1977My folks panicked, and contacted the police because I didn't tell anyone.
1978They refused to investigate because I hadn't been gone for 24 hours.
1979	Ditherer - Today at 12:02 AM
1980Those officers were bad at their jobs. You can file immediately if you believe them to be missing or in danger, and it's much more likely to save them.
1981	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:03 AM
1982It was New York, what do you expect? But they said it was department policy.
1983	AusAnon - Today at 12:04 AM
1984Wait a second
1985	Ditherer
1986	Ditherer - Today at 12:04 AM
1987What?
1988	AusAnon - Today at 12:07 AM
1989Could it be that you're arguing against Using head canon and such to determine what you believe a film is about?
1990	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:07 AM
1991Hey, that's true.
1992	AusAnon - Today at 12:09 AM
1993If you believe that despite the evidence in EQG and MLP that Adagio was orignianly a pony, you have to accept 	Ace believing despite the evidence in Blair Witch there was no magic and it was a plot by the dudes to kill the chikc
1994And you have to accept that I believe both those things are the wrong opinion
1995	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:10 AM
1996No double standards, now.
1997	Ditherer - Today at 12:18 AM
1998Not exactly. I think in a competently-executed story, the intentions of the author(s) about its themes and meanings take precedence over audience interpretation, and that trying to redefine films by removing the awkward, fantastical elements in them is boring and silly. If the filmmakers say "It's meant to go either way," like in Inception, then I don't really care either way. My objection is just to the attitude that "I don't like the witch movie because there wasn't a CGI witch in it, so therefore it must be about this thing I like better instead". 
1999
2000My belief in pony Dagi is firstly not in spite of the evidence, as you agreed with me the last time I beat back your objections to a standstill. And secondly, it's not a matter of headcanon in violation of the film, because as the head of this shared multiverse between the writers Hasbro has done its level best to portray Adagio as a pony in its toy line. I'm not standing on the throat of the movie to make that headcanon, just like I'm not doing it when I call the Human World Jupiter and say that the adults are all off fighting wars, because I'm not contradicting anything shown on screen. If I said that the characters were all secretly pretending and Rainbow Rocks was really a conspiracy by an omniscient Fluttershy to keep the universe in balance, I'm hurting the narrative quality of the story and smashing into established parts of the story that don't bear very good fruit.
2001
2002In other words, nice try.
2003	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:19 AM
2004It seems that, in all of your accusation of me missing your point, you fail to see that you've completely missed MY point.
2005I don't want a CGI witch.
2006I don't want there to be special effects.
2007In the Blair Witch movie, I wanted a scene where I can watch it, and not say "Oh, come on! I know exactly how that happened, and who did it!"(edited)
2008They put NO effort into making ANYTHING look remotely like something paranormal was going on.
2009If they had something hanging by a piano wire, a strange light in the distance, something like that they can do with the budget they had, then I might've found it interesting.
2010But no, they chose to wear a scary mask and move some rocks.
2011That's.(edited)
2012About.
2013it.
2014That's my gripe with the movie.
2015You should never reach the point in a movie where you inwardly say "Oh, brother."
2016Unless that's the kind of feeling you're going for.(edited)
2017	Ditherer - Today at 12:26 AM
2018I swear I remember some kind of light, plus the Witch screams in their mutilated friend's voice. But part of it was the characters taking SAN checks the longer they're innawoods, and part of it is how they keep "going in circles".
2019	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:29 AM
2020"The witch screams in their mutilated friend's voice" Or the friend is purposely gargling his voice to sound mutilated. As for the going in circles? Well, the brothers had the map at the time. They may have said they lost it, but if they were trying to kill her, then they may have just pretended to lose it. Honestly, I think it would've made for a lot more interesting story if the creators weren't insisting it was the Blair Witch that was doing the killing.
2021	Ditherer - Today at 12:30 AM
2022Well, now it's a three-man conspiracy. At some point, why isn't it just a comedy about four friends faking their deaths by witch and then running away to Hawaii?
2023And maybe it would be.
2024	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:31 AM
2025Wait, three man conspiracy?
2026Explain.
2027	Ditherer - Today at 12:31 AM
2028The two murderers and the gargling friend.
2029	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:31 AM
2030The girl was the last one killed.
2031And the gargling friend was one of the brothers making noises.
2032If I remember correctly, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, it was just the girl and two brothers, right?
2033	Ditherer - Today at 12:33 AM
2034There were four people when they came into the woods, and two leave. Either the third man was in on it, or they hated him too and were also ventriloquists.
2035	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:33 AM
2036You're going to have to play me the scene again. I only remember three people.
2037OH FUCK,
2038Am I from the universe where there were only three people in the Blair Witch Project?
2039Is this the universe where there were four?
2040StarAnon - Today at 12:35 AM
2041>Debate Ends due to both being right on their own dimensions.
2042	Ace Sorou - Today at 12:38 AM
2043Fucking Mandela.
2044	Ditherer - Today at 12:41 AM
2045There's actually a very clever found footage movie where the twist is that the people with the cameras did all the killings and were just wasting police time while they got away, but I can't find it for the life of me.