vbNW9qxr

1chonka2019-10-07
2keening don't get discouraged its always nice to see the other angle you are not the only one that wanted toth to work but atm its just a big dps loss
3 
4Keening2019-10-07
5I trust sims Emlis
6 
7Emlis2019-10-07
8@Keening Well no, what you're saying is, sims are wrong, gale is better
9 
10Keening2019-10-07
11lol it's not
12 
13Emlis2019-10-07
14I can scroll up and quote, that is what you've been saying
15 
16Keening2019-10-07
17i'm saying that in the sims: if gale & crows are equal, then gale is better
18especially for the more consistent d&d proccs
19 
20Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
21no they are equal.
22and its personal preference
23 
24Emlis2019-10-07
25if they're equal, they're equal
26and crows will get ahead for you, once you have 3 dod
27 
28Kieya2019-10-07
29Even going by what you are saying providing an alternate "easier" solution to crows is irrelevant because crows is already braindead on single target
30 
31Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
32Beginners can still aim for 3x DoD then what you are discussing is irrelevent.
33
34 
35Emlis2019-10-07
36@Keening The issue is, you might have trouble with crows, but you're speaking for all bad players, assuming that they also struggle with crows. 
37
38Please listen and understand this. 
39
40Crows is not a notable or large or common issue for bad players to have. It is not even in the top 5 of common issues bad players have.
41 
42Scoteh2019-10-07
43Oh lol are we still on this?
44 
45Emlis2019-10-07
46you are better off arguing for the guide to suggest pressing barbed shot off cooldown
47 
48Ghosteld2019-10-07
49Beginners have way bigger issues than pressing an ability on cd whenever it's available
50 
51Kieya2019-10-07
52We stopped for a while scoteh but we got a sequel
53 
54Scoteh2019-10-07
55I had to go actually do some work, I figured this would have been settled by now
56 
57give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
58Debate requires a party to be willing to admit they may be wrong. When you resort to "mY oPiNiOn" you kill any remaining attempt at a constructive debate because you have just proven that you know that you're wrong in this, but you're unwilling to admit that a 2% dps loss for pressing a single button once a minute (and mind you, unless the fight ends exactly when crows end, you can delay it by quite a bit) is too big a gap to be considered for an alternative spec.
59 
60Keening2019-10-07
61I don't have trouble with crows, but we're all lazy people, if we can get the same with less to consider, ESPECIALLY if you're a bad player, you struggle with other things, such as standing in the right place, avoiding aids/abilities etc. then taking crows, which a lot of players are using inefficiently and swap that with a talent that is always used at a maximum: simming almost as good as the optimal use of crows talent then yeah...
62
63I'd take the lazy route any day. and in the case of players still learning their class & the game in general so should the guide say.
64 
65Kieya2019-10-07
66Another issue is that you're entirely stuck on viewing gale and crows as solely contributing to dod uptime
67 
68give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
69Ac/kc is considered  (by now) a viable single target alternative despite providing at best 1% more damage, and forces you to deal with bugs. Losing 2% for no reason is borderline crazy.
70 
71Ghosteld2019-10-07
72Why would we want beginners to play with a not optimal standard build? Thats leading them on a wrong path
73 
74Keening2019-10-07
75optimal standard build?
76no it isnt
77
78 
79Emlis2019-10-07
80@Keening hold on,
81so you have no issue with crows
82but you're saying these magical people who aren't here
83are?
84who are these people you speak for
85 
86Jacobo2019-10-07
87I started playing wow for the first time 3 months ago. The only reason I struggled with crows is because I didnt adjust my game audio for the longest and hated hearing it my ear
88 
89Emlis2019-10-07
90because crows is not a common issue for new players
91 
92Keening2019-10-07
93emlis if you think this forum is a statistical for the entire hunter population you're so mistaken
94 
95Scoteh2019-10-07
96I think the key difference/misunderstanding from Keening here is that a guide should include suboptimal options. It shouldn't. People dont consult a guide for how to find worse alternatives
97 
98Kieya2019-10-07
99Ok I have to go to bed, give me some good content for tomorrow
100 
101Yarpie2019-10-07
102I want a slice of good content too plz
103 
104Keening2019-10-07
105Scoteh, the suboptimal option if it's 10 times easier will still bring you closer to that max damage than that of the more difficult guide will, unless you execute it to near perfection
106in very very simple means
107 
108chonka2019-10-07
109damn for me toth is only 175 dps worse XD
110 
111Emlis2019-10-07
112@Keening I'm not sure you understand what we do here, or how many thousands of people we have helped over time, and the logs we go through and critique, 
113
114our pool of knowledge of what bad/new players struggle with, is infinitely more accurate than yours
115 
116chonka2019-10-07
117but my gear is not the best
118 
119Keening2019-10-07
120ac/kc -> occasional barbed shot -> bw on cd --> spam
121 
122Ghosteld2019-10-07
123Crows is objectively the easiest ability to use in our toolkit.
124 
125Keening2019-10-07
126will take you there wayy faster than including murder of crows & more spiky weapon proccs from nest.
127I need some coffee.
128brb
129 
130chonka2019-10-07
131https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sn6jASUREJa9xhypgtm6JY
132Raidbots
133Top Gear - Chonka - 53,438 DPS - Raidbots
134
135my bad its 250 for me :stuck_out_tongue:
136 
137Scoteh2019-10-07
138Again though you're saying "max dmg" which is a fallacy
139 
140give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
141:onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending:
142 
143Ghosteld2019-10-07
144@chonka that says 700 dps?
145 
146Scoteh2019-10-07
147A literal solution to that is "play better"
148 
149Keening2019-10-07
150nice sim chonka
151
152 
153Scoteh2019-10-07
154Hell, a more useful contribution from / for you would be "hey can we include a link at the murder of crows section for a weakaura that tells me when crows is ready to be used"
155 
156Teheebae2019-10-07
157Holy shit
158What an absolute fiesta we got going on :FeelsGoodMan:
159 
160chonka2019-10-07
161Its 700 vs kc/ac but not using that atm, prob should hehe
162 
163give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
164Understand that plenty of people make a similar choice to this by not using double on use trinkets because fuck font
165But we'd never put in the guide to do that
166Its a personal choice to sacrifice damage for convinience
167 
168Keening2019-10-07
169Maybe your 'guide' is missguided then, isnt the very point of a guide for people who actually need it?
170 
171Ghosteld2019-10-07
172@chonka well its also 600-700 dps with ki/aotb
173 
174Keening2019-10-07
175new people, people tiering up and so on
176people that don't sim their gear
177 
178give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
179The point of a guide is to have an accurate framework for how to do something the correct way
180 
181Keening2019-10-07
182one thing that leading taught me is that you always have to make room for error in whatever strategy you pursue.
183 
184give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
185Including random additions "if you cant press x button every Y you can drop it for Z and lose damage" has no place in a guide that seeks to teach how to play the class
186 
187Keening2019-10-07
188Chonka you see how your dps is higher with gale compared to crows? :slight_smile:
189or basically the same
190
191 
192Scoteh2019-10-07
193You are suggesting putting an artificial cap on your damage potential for ease of play. Which is fine, but will not actually make you the best player you can be. So should not be how you structure for improvement. Imo.
194 
195chonka2019-10-07
196@Ghosteld  nwm me than I guess I am blind :KEKW:
197 
198give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
199You should learn from that yourself. Nobody is in agreement with you. Surely this is an issue with literally everyone else, and not your argument.  Right?  RIGHT ?
200Also, mfw you pull the "Well leading has taught me..." bullshit
20110/10
202 
203Keening2019-10-07
204@give wordup loot or ban high horse stuff again
205 
206give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
207Im not the one trying to pull rank here
208By implying I have more leadership experience
209And thus my opinion should matter more
210:GWseremePeepoThink:
211 
212Keening2019-10-07
213it shouldnt matter MORE
214it's a basic common ground
215 
216give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
217It shouldn't matter AT ALL, because it has nothing to do with wether what you suggest is a good idea or not
218Just sidesweeping it in there as if it lends merit to what you say is 10/10 cringe
219 
220Keening2019-10-07
221as in: your strategy can sim 1000 million dps, but unless there is a realistic way to actually do that in the "world" and not only in a sim, well then it doesnt matter.-
222
223^^ that was an extreme, I'm aware the potential of the current guide can be reached with a lil bit of effort.
224but it still requires effort.
225
226using another talent that sims 1.5% lower, but you never have to think about to reach that max can more often than you think, in the end give a greater dps increase. ESPECIALLY FOR NEW PLAYERS
227and that is my point of leading experience
228 
229Ryv2019-10-07
230:aPES_Popcorn:
231 
232Jayeasy2019-10-07
233
234 
235Ghosteld2019-10-07
236How does it give a greater dps increase
237Are you avoiding to press a button on your keyboard?
238
239 
240Keening2019-10-07
241no
242 
243Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
244But if new players can learn from a guide to achieve the best their character can in your case 1.5% - then fuck directing them to something that makes them deal less and will make them think what they are doing is the correct thing to do.
245 
246give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
247The fuck does "leadership experience" have anything to do with what you said
248The fuck do you even lead
249 
250Keening2019-10-07
251butthurt much?
252 
253Scoteh2019-10-07
254Hes leading you toward high blood pressure
255 
256Keening2019-10-07
257crows: but if you forget about it for 15 seconds or 10 or end up applying it at the wrong time in the fight you're not getting the most of the talent
258 
259Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
260Keening if your sole purpose now is to annoy people because we disagree. this discord isnt for you.
261 
262waytogoteam2019-10-07
263https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-popcornday-national-popcorn-day-gif-9265562
264 
265Keening2019-10-07
266whilst the alternative is always up at max.
267 
268give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
269Already there from actually leading a top 100 guild scoteh
270 
271Ghosteld2019-10-07
272Wouldn't it be more beneficial to add a weakaura in the guide that screams at you whenever crows is off cd then to suggest talents that are suboptimal?
273 
274Scoteh2019-10-07
275Cringe draco,  dropping in your leadership experience like that :monkaScheme:
276 
277give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
278Perfect setup buddy
279Tyty
280 
281Scoteh2019-10-07
282Ghost plz do not steal my excellent points
283 
284Jacobo2019-10-07
285I mean eventually a beginner has to grow out of that stage right? I know for sure I wasnt using crows effectively when I first started. After reading the guide more thoroughly and getting advice from better hunters I got better at it.
286 
287Damkus2019-10-07
288damn this dude still goin
289crazy
290 
291Keening2019-10-07
292Jacobo sure but unless you're getting the MAX out of it, that is: sim using it during BW, sim using it during AoTW, sim using it during deadtime in rotation etc. you still won't outperform the passive strength of toth.
293
294 
295give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
296Keening by your logic we should never drive bikes without training wheels because we will be able to move from a to b quicker if we leave them on, rather than learning to actually ride the bike.
297 
298idigital2019-10-07
299What Is the best essences comp for m+ without pvp essences
300 
301LeoZhekov2019-10-07
302Kinda defeats the purpose of the guide when guiding people into suboptimal choices.
303 
304Teheebae2019-10-07
305You don't teach a kid playing football by kicking around a handball :smile:
306 
307Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
308but then you get better Keening and AGAIN your point is irrelevant.
309 
310Keening2019-10-07
311Leo it's more like me suggesting giving a pass if you're in the middle circle might be safer and better to reach the enemy goal, eventhough if you're one of the best players out there you have a 90% chance to actually score a goal from the middle circle. --> cause unless you are then yeah, it doesnt > the alternative.
312 
313give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
314We assume that the training wheels phase takes place BEFORE a player seeks out a guide by the way
315 
316Keening2019-10-07
317you're assuming wrong then
318 
319Scoteh2019-10-07
320@idigital few options, most popular probably iris>visions>bote
321 
322Keening2019-10-07
323what's the first thing you do if you want to reroll a class you haven't played?
324you look at the friggen guide
325 
326Emlis2019-10-07
327@Keening Do you understand that it's almost garunteed you won't get the max out of toth, whereas it's very easy to get the max out of crows?
328 
329give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
330Level it.
331 
332Scoteh2019-10-07
333Oh. No bote. Hm. I guess like purification or something then
334 
335Keening2019-10-07
336Emlis you're wrong, 9% crit will always be up
337 
338Emlis2019-10-07
339no
340 
341Keening2019-10-07
342yes
343 
344Ghosteld2019-10-07
345:WaitWhat:
346 
347Emlis2019-10-07
348you will not always have max uptime
349 
350Damkus2019-10-07
351no x100
352 
353Keening2019-10-07
35490-100% I shit you not
355
356 
357Martyi2019-10-07
358:LUL:
359 
360Emlis2019-10-07
361so you have that uptime on frenzy?
362 
363Keening2019-10-07
364¨
365 
366Emlis2019-10-07
367dude you're talking shit
368 
369Keening2019-10-07
370YES
371no i'm not
372lol
373try it ffs
374 
375Martyi2019-10-07
376Wow teach us
377 
378Teheebae2019-10-07
379:PepeLaugh:
380 
381give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
382Comrade #2588, we have escaped the gulag btw, you can come out of hiding
383 
384Emlis2019-10-07
385you're talking about your 2minute long heroic fights, literally peak irrelevancy @Keening
386 
387Keening2019-10-07
388No i'm not
389 
390Maikl2019-10-07
391:pepegiggle:
392 
393LeoZhekov2019-10-07
394The guide is a tool that shows what should be done in order to be the best you can be. Giving suboptimal suggestions, is a sign of a bad guide.
395 
396Keening2019-10-07
397I'm talking about pretty much all content I do.
398 
399Teheebae2019-10-07
400But you don't have any other content you've done?
401 
402Martyi2019-10-07
403Well Draco. Azor changed my name to 2588 and I haven’t bother change it back since
404 
405Damkus2019-10-07
406cant believe i went out and ate a kebab and this dude is still going on about toth
407 
408Teheebae2019-10-07
409I haven't played for two months and I have more progress than you, and I fucking suck at this game :PepeLaugh:
410 
411Damkus2019-10-07
412when all you have to do is press your crows keybind
413
414 
415Scoteh2019-10-07
416Who has a kebab for lunch....
417 
418Damkus2019-10-07
419I have sinned.
420 
421Keening2019-10-07
422Tehheebae I'm not intrested in comparing penis size. sorry
423 
424Maikl2019-10-07
425too many buttons :NotLikeThis:
426 
427Scoteh2019-10-07
428Easy solution to this - go write your own guide "For Bad Players by a Bad Player"
429 
430Teheebae2019-10-07
431Surely you'd win with your special supplements for penis enhancements
432 
433Emlis2019-10-07
434@Keening On your best sivara, you had 76% uptime on 3 stacks, this is on a 4min 30 fight, which is on the shorter end
435 
436Martyi2019-10-07
437Lul
438 
439Keening2019-10-07
440@Emlis look at @chonka and his sim and tell me that my argument earlier about gale being worse off is valid.
441
442https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sn6jASUREJa9xhypgtm6JY
443
444it'll give more consistent uptime of D&D
445Raidbots
446Top Gear - Chonka - 53,438 DPS - Raidbots
447
448 
449Emlis2019-10-07
450you want more DAMAGE
451looking at niche sections is not relevant, you want total higher dmg
452 
453Keening2019-10-07
454just look at the friggen sim before you qq ok?
455 
456chonka2019-10-07
457I managed to get it to 427 dps loss with soulscarrd but even that is way to much for me
458 
459Martyi2019-10-07
460Why keening is trying avoid when emlis talked about frenzy uptime
461You said you can do 90-100% uptime but yet you did only 76%
462 
463Silva2019-10-07
464But @Emlis is 100% right. Beside struggle with toth uptime you have to meet certain requirements to make it fly, like high crit so One with the Pack take place of Chimaera Shot. Needless to say there will be requirement of at least some of DoDs in your azurite gear.
465 
466Keening2019-10-07
467I'm not trying to avoid anything yes you have 90% uptime or above.
468https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3N7xpDyXMY6QkFmc#fight=1&type=auras&target=109
469 
470Emlis2019-10-07
471this is a 2minute 30 fight
472 
473Lobo2019-10-07
47490%, 2m30s fight
475
476 
477Emlis2019-10-07
478also
47980%
480 
481Keening2019-10-07
482no
483frenzy is up 99% so
484 
485Emlis2019-10-07
486stfu
487
488 
489Keening2019-10-07
490Emlis & Lobo, dude srsly? he gave the "my best parse" on sivara --> so I gave him that fight
491 
492Emlis2019-10-07
493you said 3 stacks
494 
495Martyi2019-10-07
496LOL
497 
498Emlis2019-10-07
499Look at that
500it's 80%
501 
502Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
503Lmfao
504 
505Martyi2019-10-07
506This guy is out of contrôle
507 
508Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
509@Keening  Please stop. this is embarrassing.
510 
511Keening2019-10-07
512look at the link
513 
514Emlis2019-10-07
515I gave you your best parse on MYTHIC, where the fight is over
516 
517Teheebae2019-10-07
518:Monka:
519 
520Keening2019-10-07
52199% uptime on frenzy
522 
523Emlis2019-10-07
524i took your link, and i put YOUR LINK into wow analyzer,
525 
526Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
527That is the Link.
528 
529Keening2019-10-07
530no its not the link kazzo
531 
532Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
533Emlis has broke it down for you already
534 
535Emlis2019-10-07
536@Keening 99% including 1 and 2 stack time, please listen
537and use your brain
538and stop talking
539stop typing
540 
541Keening2019-10-07
542no he's using another friggen bossfight
543 
544Emlis2019-10-07
545this is the same fight
546no
547 
548Teheebae2019-10-07
549:OMEGALUL:
550 
551Emlis2019-10-07
552this is literally the same
553fight
554it's the same fight
555 
556Martyi2019-10-07
557Keening is fucking :pepega: I ever seen yo
558 
559Emlis2019-10-07
560can someone work out ways to say this in other languages, so maybe it sinks in
561 
562Martyi2019-10-07
563Est ce que tu sais comment lire ce log?
564 
565Lobo2019-10-07
566@Keening At some point you need to understand when you have to stop, I just read nearly everything, the only way toth would be a wise choice, would be if they make the buff working on pets
567 
568Teheebae2019-10-07
569I don't have those magical capabilities I'm sorry
570 
571Martyi2019-10-07
572Hope if he can understand what I say in other language
573 
574Teheebae2019-10-07
575Keening are you NA?
576
577 
578Emlis2019-10-07
579@Keening these large sections are non 3 stack uptime
580
581 
582Martyi2019-10-07
583He’s EU
5843/8M player
585 
586Keening2019-10-07
587thanks emlis
588 
589Teheebae2019-10-07
590da fok
591 
592Emlis2019-10-07
593https://wowanalyzer.com/
594@Keening you can put your logs into this website,
595WoWAnalyzer
596Use WoWAnalyzer to analyze your gameplay and get suggestions to become a better raider.
597
598go to statistics
599and it will tell you your uptime
600for any fight you want
601 
602Scoteh2019-10-07
603:yikes:
604 
605Keening2019-10-07
606so, give me your uptime with crows on same fight please
607 
608Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
609This GUY!
610 
611Martyi2019-10-07
612:confusedblacked:
613 
614Teheebae2019-10-07
615????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
616 
617Martyi2019-10-07
618LOOOL
619 
620Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
621No way is he still wanting to argue this
622 
623Teheebae2019-10-07
624AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
625 
626Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
627LMFAO IM DEAD
628 
629chonka2019-10-07
630Crows is better the shorter the fight usually
631 
632Teheebae2019-10-07
633How can you fucking compare Crows uptime against that??????
634 
635Martyi2019-10-07
636This guy is fucking what? Imagine if azor is still reading this
637Oof
638 
639Teheebae2019-10-07
640I hope not
641@Azor Do not read this
642
643
644 
645Toth is real2019-10-07
646He left for a fight iirc
647 
648Martyi2019-10-07
649:LUL:
650 
651Toth is real2019-10-07
652Flight
653*
654 
655Ghosteld2019-10-07
656:monkaW::popcorn:
657 
658Emlis2019-10-07
659@Keening i'm sorry, what?
660the uptime on crows?
661 
662Keening2019-10-07
663nevermind
664 
665Emlis2019-10-07
666you mean the 3 times you'd need to use crows on a fight of this length?
667 
668Maikl2019-10-07
669:pepeclown:
670 
671Emlis2019-10-07
672you want a log with someone pressing crows 3 times?
673 
674Teheebae2019-10-07
675Emlis will camp lowbies for weeks in Classic now after this discussion, she must be FUMING
676 
677Keening2019-10-07
678I didnt mean on crows I meant with crows talent, but it doesnt matter. i'm talking to deaf ears and have been for an hour
679 
680Emlis2019-10-07
681but what relevancy does that have
682 
683Keening2019-10-07
684not much
685thus don't bother
686 
687Emlis2019-10-07
688I was telling you, that there is almost a guaranteed chance of having toth lose value due to misplay
689whereas it's uncommon to lose value on crows due to misplay
690making toth actually harder to reach full value with
691 
692Keening2019-10-07
693and i said it's basically up all the time
694 
695Emlis2019-10-07
696basically isn't good enough
69780% isn't 100%
698 
699Lobo2019-10-07
700One of the funniest part is talking on using toth while having a Feeding Frenzy trait :open_mouth:
701 
702Scoteh2019-10-07
703:POGGERS:
704 
705Teheebae2019-10-07
706FF :ok_hand:
707 
708Emlis2019-10-07
709which means there is room to lose value
710 
711Teheebae2019-10-07
712But 80 is closer to 100 than 0, so it must be good
713
714 
715Ghosteld2019-10-07
716with crows :TriDance:
717
718 
719Scoteh2019-10-07
720He did it, the mad man
721 
722Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
723lmfao ghost.
724 
725Keening2019-10-07
726D&D uptime? 74.83% uptime
727 
728Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
729:tridance: is my new fave thing
730 
731Emlis2019-10-07
732uptime is not relevant, 3 stack uptime is
733 
734Keening2019-10-07
735you always get 3 stack uptime if you have 3 traits of dnd
736 
737Emlis2019-10-07
738uh
739 
740Martyi2019-10-07
741lol what?
742 
743Scoteh2019-10-07
744Where is this "&" and "n" coming from
745 
746Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
747?????????????? my head hurts so much. the fuck am i even reading
748 
749Lobo2019-10-07
750Ahah
751 
752Keening2019-10-07
753dance of death
754 
755Martyi2019-10-07
756Holy shit Lololol
757 
758Emlis2019-10-07
759how does dance of death traits, help stack uptime
760dance of death traits HURT stack uptime, and it's worth it
761 
762Scoteh2019-10-07
763Oh oh oh
764 
765Maikl2019-10-07
766dungeons n dragons
767 
768Lobo2019-10-07
769Want to know too
770 
771Scoteh2019-10-07
772I get this one
773 
774Keening2019-10-07
775we're talking about two different things here.
776 
777Emlis2019-10-07
778clearly
779 
780Scoteh2019-10-07
781What hes saying is that he has higher dod uptime because of toth
782 
783Keening2019-10-07
784scoteh thank you
785
786 
787Lobo2019-10-07
788Yeah, but higher DoD uptime =/= more dps
789 
790Scoteh2019-10-07
791I am starting to speak moron
792 
793Ghosteld2019-10-07
794toplog has perma 3 stack uptime with crows :peeposhrug:
795
796 
797Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
798go scoteh go xD
799 
800Emlis2019-10-07
801higher dod uptime with toth
802higher dps with crows
803@Keening which do you want
804more dps or more dod uptime
805SEEMS PRETTY OBVIOUS TO ME
806 
807Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
808Uptime looks better on a green log? DUR. it makes sense now.
809xD
810 
811Ghosteld2019-10-07
812Also on 2 minute fights, no matter what you do DoD is mega RNG
813 
814Scoteh2019-10-07
815We could actually math this out though guys
816 
817Teheebae2019-10-07
818:slight_smile:
819 
820Itsy2019-10-07
821I think we should all just man up and play the one true spec,
822Survival.
823 
824Scoteh2019-10-07
825So take the overall damage done by crows on the fight
826
827 
828Maikl2019-10-07
829you would have to compare 10+ pulls from both talent choices and average them to see the real difference
830 
831Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
832yeah on your own with that one scoteh xD
833 
834Scoteh2019-10-07
835Get "his" dod uptime vs crows players uptime
836 
837Lobo2019-10-07
838Don't talk about survival, trap dancing was fun (yeah it's very old, but meh)
839 
840Scoteh2019-10-07
841And then -1k dps for every second extra he has of dod uptime
842 
843Keening2019-10-07
844https://wowanalyzer.com/report/DBjQa9VyLKYbkm18/3-Heroic+Radiance+of+Azshara+-+Kill+(3:25)/Adventuring/statistics
845WoWAnalyzer: Heroic Radiance of Azshara - Kill (3:25) by Adventuring
846Use WoWAnalyzer to analyze your gameplay and get suggestions to become a better raider.
847
848 
849patty2019-10-07
850I agree with Keening is it much better to play only 2 buttons instead of 3. He is truly the mastermind of this discord.
851 
852Keening2019-10-07
853thanks patty
854 
855Scoteh2019-10-07
856And then work out whether crows is more!
857WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY
858 
859Maikl2019-10-07
860HC radiance :Pepega:
861 
862Keening2019-10-07
863Maikl, what the fuck just give me a break
864 
865Stonefire2019-10-07
866Some of you guys are why people still call us hunatards :frowning:
867 
868Keening2019-10-07
869you in EU? give me guild invite i'll show you in mythic np. my current progress doesnt matter it's not about ME in the end it's about the viability of toth&gale vs crow's&crow's
870 
871Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
872they do not matter Keening - Heroic is vastly different from Mythic.
873 
874Keening2019-10-07
875yes I know it's different
876so is any fight compared to patchwerk
877 
878Ghosteld2019-10-07
879:PepeLaugh:
880
881nice opener
882 
883Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
884you know sims dont account for 100% and you can adjust the api for different variables right?
885 
886Scoteh2019-10-07
887:NotLikeThis:
888 
889Keening2019-10-07
890the constant player bashing in here..
891
892 
893Damkus2019-10-07
894this is great keep goin
895 
896Ghosteld2019-10-07
897Whats the point of taking toth when you are using barbed/bw incorrectly :ThonkDumb:
898 
899Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
900^
901 
902Keening2019-10-07
903how do I use it incorrectly @Ghosteld
904 
905Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
906This isnt player bashing - this is us trying to make you understand - if you are going to try prove a point be damn sure you have the evidence so people are willing to take you seriously.
907 
908Maikl2019-10-07
909he doesn't know :pepegiggle:
910 
911Silva2019-10-07
912BW should be before Barbed so its going to take off its cd.
913 
914Ghosteld2019-10-07
915You shot barbed shot twice while bestial wrath was usable thus losing 24 second (+ like 4 seconds of delaying it)
916 
917Keening2019-10-07
918Yea you're right
919i've got subpar macro
920but is that what you meant by not using it correctly?
921 
922Maikl2019-10-07
923yes
924 
925Keening2019-10-07
926k
927 
928patty2019-10-07
929Please why you have to be so mean to a prophet of a new build. He is a human after all he does mistakes :slight_smile:
930 
931Keening2019-10-07
932so, my opener can improve
933 
934Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
935I think dude, once you have better gear/have actually studied the Guide you are suggesting Azor improves. you may actually see results.
936 
937Keening2019-10-07
938what the fuck?
939 
940Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
941And thus your current points you will then learn are invalid and have already been proven as incorrect.
942 
943Keening2019-10-07
944my points arent invalid they're VERY valid, especially for people still learning the basics... if you're bashing me for having a faulty opener imagine what mistakes and improvement people lower down the ladder has with trying to keep up optimising their characters in a build that only performs 100% if you perform 100%, it's not as forgiving as something more simple and easier to use.
945 
946Xath2019-10-07
947huh so someone dropped another barrel of nitroglycerin onto a spec argument it seems sheesh
948 
949Lobo2019-10-07
950/facepalm
951 
952Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
953for gods sake dude, we arent bashing you - If you posted those logs into #log  reviews  you wouldve been told the same thing there.
954As would any new player asking for advice.
955 
956Damkus2019-10-07
957think people who cant figure out that you should press bestial wrath before blasting barbed shots need a brain scan, not a new build
958 
959Prier2019-10-07
960wait is this guy back again?
961 
962Keening2019-10-07
963see what i'm saying
964 
965Prier2019-10-07
966i coulda swore we had this argument in the mm discord like 2weeks ago
967 
968Keening2019-10-07
969I wasnt in mm 2 weeks ago
970I've not said this before
971but I guess why people don't come around often
972geez
973 
974Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
975We are one of the if not most uptodate class discords in terms of Guides/theorycrafting
976
977 
978Prier2019-10-07
979your advocating for playing something worse cause its easier
980why not get better at the hard thing
981 
982Keening2019-10-07
983what's your uptime on Dance of death in any random fight?
984 
985Prier2019-10-07
986and do more dps that wayt
987 
988Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
989if your build had some form of credibility - it would be there.
990 
991Emlis2019-10-07
992@Keening you're looking at the wrong information, dod uptime varies significantly based on rng,
993asking that, as though it means something, puts more doubt on anything you say
994 
995Keening2019-10-07
996rng can be reduced with gale
997rng can be reduced with toth
998 
999Lobo2019-10-07
1000Then only way to have no rng on dod would be to have 100% crit
1001 
1002Emlis2019-10-07
1003Irrelevant, you don't know by what %, you don't know what part is rng, if it was a good or bad attempt
1004you're asking for useless information
1005 
1006Keening2019-10-07
1007just give me a friggen number? not that hard is it?
1008 
1009Emlis2019-10-07
1010invalidates your argument even more
1011 
1012Keening2019-10-07
1013i had 75% uptime on two bosses we looked at
1014 
1015Emlis2019-10-07
1016okay, i get from 30% to 90% depending on the fight :slight_smile:
1017it's rng
1018this is why we use sims, which has 10,000 attempts to go off of
1019 
1020Keening2019-10-07
1021so can you simulate uptime in raidbots? if so, then we should be able to break this down in a few steppes with no more argumentation needed.
1022 
1023Emlis2019-10-07
1024No because sims say it's less dps to do what you're suggesting
1025which means what you're saying is irrelevant
1026more dps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more dod uptime
1027 
1028Keening2019-10-07
1029You can't simulate uptime in raidbots because sim says it's less dps to what i'm suggesting?
1030wtf?
1031 
1032Emlis2019-10-07
1033you can see uptime in buffs
1034of the sim you already did
1035that already said it was worse dps
1036that we already saw
1037and already realised you're wrong
1038 
1039Ryv2019-10-07
1040:pepeDjChristmas: :popcorn~1:
1041 
1042Silva2019-10-07
1043Autistic fest. Thank u.
1044
1045
1046 
1047patty2019-10-07
1048This just means the APL of the simm is wrong for the superior build. No way the Kenning is wrong here.
1049 
1050Keening2019-10-07
1051Manners ffs
1052what the flying fuck with the acid, manner up.
1053stop jumping character..
1054 
1055Prier2019-10-07
1056i bet keening denies climate change too
1057so typical
1058 
1059Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1060Hey guys isnt the world flat?
1061 
1062Emlis2019-10-07
1063@Keening People are just memeing it because you're not making sense and making statements and arguments that don't make sense
1064 
1065Keening2019-10-07
1066meming it? you're ok with that?
1067 
1068Emlis2019-10-07
1069i have no power
1070goatface is the guy with power
1071i'm just a regular talker here
1072 
1073Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1074You also make sense Emlis.
1075 
1076Prier2019-10-07
1077i believe its spelt cents kazzo
1078cmon bruh
1079 
1080Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1081xD soz
1082 
1083Silva2019-10-07
1084It goes for 5 hours right?
1085 
1086patty2019-10-07
1087What part of my comment is a 'meme'? I don't even know what that means. I am just trying to show support of an unused build which makes hunters fun.
1088 
1089Ryv2019-10-07
1090Is crows cd 45 or 60 :pepeDjChristmas: :popcorn~1: ?
1091 
1092Prier2019-10-07
1093this beats the mm one we had the other week about using passive trinkets increases your dps
1094what a meme that was
1095 
1096Toth is real2019-10-07
1097Sounds similar
1098 
1099Prier2019-10-07
1100mmhm
1101i pve'd my way to 2k in arena today boy lol
1102 
1103Damkus2019-10-07
1104wtf with what comp
1105
1106 
1107Prier2019-10-07
1108bm resto druid
1109 
1110Ryv2019-10-07
1111Thought it would be 3x bm :FeelsBadMan:
1112 
1113Prier2019-10-07
1114i do so much dmg everyone just falls over eventually
1115lol
1116oh lol
1117 
1118Damkus2019-10-07
1119damn
1120and here i thought bm hutners were poo in pvp
1121 
1122Prier2019-10-07
1123im playing that full vers build
1124for bm
1125seems legit
1126 
1127Scoteh2019-10-07
1128@Prier have you tried using toth?
1129 
1130Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1131As i said - and it wasnt intended to be a "meme" @Keening  This discord is kept well uptodate and new builds/theorycrafts take place daily if your build had some credibility to it, it would be on the guide. A good example is the AC/KC build which has recently been discovered as competitive. Proof was provided and it was tested - then added to the guide.
1132 
1133Ryv2019-10-07
1134Full vers :PepoThink: what is this witchcraft
1135 
1136Prier2019-10-07
1137nah i havnt
1138dude
1139its pretty powerful
1140 
1141Keening2019-10-07
1142Let me try and make sense, one final attempt: 
1143
11441))for a beginner it's easier with less buttons in the rotation: consider exploring the toth&gale route
1145
11462))for the intermediate & advanced player, it's important to differentiate between a sim & what you're physically able to reach during a bossfight with the random factors added. If you can't reach the potential of a-murder-of-crows simmed, you might have an easier time reaching the simmed damage in a single target fight with less buttons in rotation & more consistent uptime of DoD. 
1147
1148The highest potential is in a-murder-of-crows i haven't challanged that even once. 
1149However since it's hard to truly maximize your output with the random factors around, (not only in a sim environment, but your irl state while playing) more often than not I argue it's worth playing with toth & gale for the reasons mentioned higher up in this post.
1150
1151I don't argue against that it sims lower, I argue against the fact that your personal output will possibly be higher since you don't have to worry about crows, as well as naturally getting higher uptime on DoD and so on.
1152
1153However, some of you should really just.. well idk, try and be nice and not suck up to the "group" and actually think before you type & attack someone for thinking differently than yourself.
1154
1155With this said, I'm fine with just being silent from now on.
1156
1157 
1158Ryv2019-10-07
1159Jesus christ
1160 
1161Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1162omg essay.
1163 
1164Keening2019-10-07
1165guess it was too much to ask for, just read. Ill be gone now. bye
1166thx for a wonderful chat lol
1167 
1168Ryv2019-10-07
1169I mean I am on the bus but holy fuck
1170 
1171Scoteh2019-10-07
1172:cantwakeup:
1173 
1174Emlis2019-10-07
1175@Keening It is harder to reach the potential of toth, than the potential of crows
1176significantly harder to reach toth potential
1177 
1178proximitynz2019-10-07
1179if you cant handle the complexity of a 1 APM ability
1180 
1181Damkus2019-10-07
1182go off king
1183 
1184Ultracasual2019-10-07
1185@Keening Don’t take it too personally mate. A month ago there was this guy called Freerun saying BoTE is great in dungeons and everyone was making fun of him. He got banned over here, but the same people who were making fun use BoTE some weeks and even suggest doing it. You do you mate, this  build works for you, use it.
1186 
1187proximitynz2019-10-07
1188how did you manage to turn your pc on in the first place
1189 
1190Prier2019-10-07
1191zhttps://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/darkspear/hogx
1192World of Warcraft
1193Hogx - Character - WoW
1194Hogx (Darkspear) ❮Dara Mactíre❯ - 120 Human Beast Mastery Hunter, 446 ilvl
1195
1196this build
1197 
1198patty2019-10-07
1199YOU SAID YOU GONNA BE SILENT!
1200 
1201Keening2019-10-07
1202@Ultracasual These people are just pawns mate, from afar it's a bit pathetic to watch.
1203I said yes, but you didnt even read it before flaming
1204 
1205Damkus2019-10-07
1206thats a lot of vers
1207 
1208Keening2019-10-07
1209literally two seconds after I post I get flamed for it.
1210or made fun of
1211 
1212Emlis2019-10-07
1213@Keening I read it, and swiftly realised you didn't read what I said, when I told you that toth is harder to reach max potential of
1214why can you ignore what I tell you, but you get upset if other people do that to you?
1215
1216 
1217Prier2019-10-07
1218hey keening out of interest would you say us as a people are catastrophically warming the planet?
1219 
1220Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1221@Ultracasual  he can do him but will never achieve the maximum output of his character. This discord is here for that reason amongst others, so we will discredit him instead of saying oh thats a great idea, when quite frankly it isnt.
1222 
1223give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1224@Keening getting the optimal benefit of toth assumes you play your rotation flawlessly as almost every button you press is impacted by the crit bonus from it. Getting the optimal benefit of crows assumes you press it once a minute roughly on CD.
1225What do you think is easier.
1226 
1227Prier2019-10-07
1228oof i bet hes replying to me
1229 
1230give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1231TOTH's output is directly proportional to how well you press every other button. Crows do not care. If you do 35k dps, toth will be a smaller benefit than if you do 50k, but as long as crows is hit on cd and the gear is the same, crows remains consistent.
1232That is what @Emlis has been trying to explain
1233 
1234Keening2019-10-07
1235Prier I would say the human race have been destroying habitat for the last 150k years. with every historic city being built, a lot of forest were chopped down to pave way for housing & farming. Lots of the large animals earlier thought to have died out due to the "ice age" I believe have died out due to human exploatiation rather.
1236
1237As for climate, it has been higher temperature on the earth earlier in it's history. Nature can adapt to temperature changes, short of the very sudden ones following E.L.E events. Some would argue humans are one.
1238
1239I'm happy to give you some links if you want, but well you're only trolling me anyway so.
1240 
1241Emlis2019-10-07
1242oh yikes
1243 
1244Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1245@Prier you werent wrong
1246LMFAO
1247 
1248Prier2019-10-07
1249i knew it
1250 
1251Keening2019-10-07
1252sure
1253 
1254Emlis2019-10-07
1255@Keening why are you ignoring what I'm saying though
1256 
1257Keening2019-10-07
1258Emlis, say again let me see what you mean
1259so much jitter here
1260sorry
1261 
1262Emlis2019-10-07
1263you've avoided acknowleding it like 10 times
1264 
1265Keening2019-10-07
1266must've missed it
1267 
1268Emlis2019-10-07
1269scroll up, @give wordup loot or ban explained it in detail
1270
1271 
1272Emlis2019-10-07
1273very recently
1274 
1275Keening2019-10-07
1276I'm not gonna scroll up, say what you were saying and i'll give arguments to it, if you're willing to listen/take it in from my perspective.
1277 
1278Emlis2019-10-07
1279:neutral_face:
1280 
1281Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1282Copy pasta Emlis.
1283 
1284Keening2019-10-07
1285TOTH's output is directly proportional to how well you press every other button. Crows do not care. If you do 35k dps, toth will be a smaller benefit than if you do 50k, but as long as crows is hit on cd and the gear is the same, crows remains consistent.
1286That is what @Emlis has been trying to explain
1287 
1288give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1289TOTH's output is directly proportional to how well you press every other button. Crows do not care. If you do 35k dps, toth will be a smaller benefit than if you do 50k, but as long as crows is hit on cd and the gear is the same, crows remains consistent.
1290 
1291Keening2019-10-07
1292this ?
1293 
1294Emlis2019-10-07
1295yes
1296 
1297give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1298@Keening getting the optimal benefit of toth assumes you play your rotation flawlessly as almost every button you press is impacted by the crit bonus from it. Getting the optimal benefit of crows assumes you press it once a minute roughly on CD.
1299 
1300Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1301YAY COPY PASTA
1302 
1303Emlis2019-10-07
1304toth is significantly harder to perform as well as sims do, compared to crows
1305 
1306Keening2019-10-07
1307you just naturally get the most of it
1308 
1309Emlis2019-10-07
1310No you do not
1311Because you do not play with barbed shot optimally
1312you make mistakes
1313everyone makes mistakes
1314some significantly more than others
1315 
1316Keening2019-10-07
1317yes but the mistakes are more forgiving: thats my argument for all of this
1318 
1319Emlis2019-10-07
1320They aren't
1321 
1322Prier2019-10-07
1323man im really confused now im usually pretty good at picking what type of person someone is and i had keening all wrong
1324 
1325Vestaraa2019-10-07
1326:FeelsSmartMan:
1327 
1328Emlis2019-10-07
1329you're unlikely to miss a single crows cast in a fight, but it happens
1330you will almost always have mistakes with barbed shot, ranging from minor to very notable @Keening
1331 
1332Toth is real2019-10-07
1333Welcome to the Jungle Vest
1334We got Goats
1335 
1336Prier2019-10-07
1337how can you believe trusted and confirmed sources of 1  topic but comepletly ignore them on another
1338what a time to be alive
1339 
1340Scoteh2019-10-07
1341Are we actually still discussing ways to play badly as best we can?
1342 
1343Silva2019-10-07
1344Also your barbed shot depends on your crit and how much you can pull off the potential mistakes.
1345 
1346Keening2019-10-07
1347making mistakes with toth is more forgiving than with crows, not only because well crows can be used optimally.. but also because it lowers your amount of barbed triggers in the fight. with more barbed triggers, you don't have to play it optimally to keep uptime high.
1348
1349same applies for DoD argument with gale vs crow's nest: More evenly spread throughout the fight, can just keep bashing barbed shot whenever you want, rather than have to worry you end up with a window of no triggers.
1350 
1351Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1352Yes Scoteh - but its super entertaining.
1353 
1354Prier2019-10-07
1355yes scoteh we picking up from where the mm channel left off
1356 
1357Scoteh2019-10-07
1358Sweet
1359 
1360Emlis2019-10-07
1361@Keening having high uptime does not mean you couldn't have had higher uptime, your argument is honestly garbage
1362because you think uptime is relevant
1363 
1364Keening2019-10-07
1365uptime is relevant when my pet deals 80% of my damage and the melee part is up to 20% or more of it
1366
1367 
1368Emlis2019-10-07
1369When all that's relevant is how much dps you lose compared to how a sim performs with it
1370 
1371Scoteh2019-10-07
1372Can we move onto me justifying why I'm gonna use inkpod on azshara cos I'm pepega?
1373 
1374Prier2019-10-07
1375im pretty sure hes trolling he has to be by now right?
1376 
1377Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1378but Font/Coral :frowning:
1379 
1380Emlis2019-10-07
1381okay yeah look, end of the day, you're genuinely too stupid to comprehend what I'm trying to say, and I've reached my limit of patience, @Keening maybe draco will put up with you for longer
1382 
1383Prier2019-10-07
1384nah better off using 2 passive trinkets
1385 
1386Emlis2019-10-07
1387but you're genuinely a bad player who doesn't know how their spec works
1388 
1389Scoteh2019-10-07
1390"Font is awkward and I cba" now all of you argue with me for 4 hours while I act like you all dont understand my genius
1391 
1392Emlis2019-10-07
1393and are looking in all the wrong places
1394 
1395Keening2019-10-07
1396Emlis you're trying to say that DPS is all that matters, and I agree
1397 
1398Emlis2019-10-07
1399Best of luck
1400 
1401Prier2019-10-07
1402they only cost you 1000 dps but youll have a better time using them and thats all that matters
1403 
1404give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1405@Keening thrill buffs kill command. If you miss a single kill command over an entire fight, thrill loses value compared to sims. How many kill commands does wowanalyzer say you miss on a good fight? Now add this same argument for anything that isn't cobra shot (your lowest impact spell)
1406 
1407Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1408@Emlis upmost respect for putting up for that long. GG.
1409
1410 
1411give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1412@Scoteh team fuck font represent
1413 
1414Keening2019-10-07
1415the circlejerk is real.
1416 
1417LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1418And you're the one getting jerked on
1419 
1420Keening2019-10-07
1421sure
1422 
1423Emlis2019-10-07
1424Your idea of circle jerk is 10 people knowing what they're talking about, and you not having any idea
1425 
1426Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1427Circle? i have no idea who Emlis is. i just know she knows her shit.
1428 
1429Scoteh2019-10-07
1430Bam, my lower dps but less effort method already more popular than Keenings
1431 
1432Prier2019-10-07
1433keening whats your thoughts on new playings avoiding double on use trinkets so they dont get overwhelmed early in their wow career?
1434 
1435LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1436One thing to stick to your opinion, completely other is to disregard the knowledge and evidence of people who are the best of this spec.
1437 
1438Keening2019-10-07
1439Prier, well to make the "most" out of your situation just bind one of them to a macro that you use in your rotation. and try and line up the font of power for high dps phases of the fight. careful with the 20 second overlap/gcd tho
1440 
1441Prier2019-10-07
1442thats not what i was asking
1443 
1444give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1445:GWseremePeepoThink:
1446 
1447Prier2019-10-07
1448i was asking should you not using2   on use because its 2 hard
1449 
1450Scoteh2019-10-07
1451Oh guys I've had a breakthrough
1452 
1453Prier2019-10-07
1454shouldnt i go with the easier and safer bet
1455?
1456
1457 
1458give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1459@Scoteh team fuck font represent
1460 
1461Keening2019-10-07
1462the circlejerk is real.
1463 
1464LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1465And you're the one getting jerked on
1466 
1467Keening2019-10-07
1468sure
1469 
1470Emlis2019-10-07
1471Your idea of circle jerk is 10 people knowing what they're talking about, and you not having any idea
1472 
1473Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1474Circle? i have no idea who Emlis is. i just know she knows her shit.
1475 
1476Scoteh2019-10-07
1477Bam, my lower dps but less effort method already more popular than Keenings
1478 
1479Prier2019-10-07
1480keening whats your thoughts on new playings avoiding double on use trinkets so they dont get overwhelmed early in their wow career?
1481 
1482LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1483One thing to stick to your opinion, completely other is to disregard the knowledge and evidence of people who are the best of this spec.
1484 
1485Keening2019-10-07
1486Prier, well to make the "most" out of your situation just bind one of them to a macro that you use in your rotation. and try and line up the font of power for high dps phases of the fight. careful with the 20 second overlap/gcd tho
1487 
1488Prier2019-10-07
1489thats not what i was asking
1490 
1491give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1492:GWseremePeepoThink:
1493 
1494Prier2019-10-07
1495i was asking should you not using2   on use because its 2 hard
1496 
1497Scoteh2019-10-07
1498Oh guys I've had a breakthrough
1499 
1500Prier2019-10-07
1501shouldnt i go with the easier and safer bet
1502?
1503
1504 
1505Toth is real2019-10-07
1506Even if the other trinket is usually coral?
1507 
1508give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1509It is an extra button to click after all
1510 
1511Keening2019-10-07
1512Prier it depends on YOU, and that's my point entirely.
1513 
1514Prier2019-10-07
1515because if i use the double on use trinkets incorecctly ill lose dps in the long run?
1516 
1517Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1518I cant even xD
1519 
1520Keening2019-10-07
1521it doesnt matter what the sim says, if you can't live up to it. you should play with what YOU deal the most damage with
1522 
1523Tylkkor2019-10-07
1524Hello , i have  a question regarding BM hunter ? is there too many button to press to play it correctly ?
1525 
1526Prier2019-10-07
1527loooool
1528its gotta be the same guy
1529from the mm channel
1530 
1531chonka2019-10-07
1532if you go toth build it gets way better
1533 
1534Scoteh2019-10-07
1535@Keening you will literally never gain traction her simply because the whole basis of your argument is how to be bad in the best way. No-one here shares that mindset and believes you should just try harder to be good. So you will never gain any traction with this. We get it, we just all disagree on a fundamental level.
1536 
1537Prier2019-10-07
1538either that or they are lon lost brothers seperated at birth
1539 
1540Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1541Chonka please no - you are in my guild. dont even.
1542 
1543Tylkkor2019-10-07
1544i mean im used to play moonkin and just spam moonfire so im affraid of trying that complicated class
1545 
1546Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1547Perfect Summary Scoteh. thanks.
1548 
1549Prier2019-10-07
1550i dont crows is to hard for me also
1551im team #keening
1552 
1553Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1554Gotta change your name so you #represent @Prier
1555 
1556give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1557@Keening at the end of the day, the situation is that you came here looking for validation for something that is, to put it simple, a fucking stupid choice. We're not going to support that. When you can, with a straight face, argue that playing badly with toth has a smaller impact than with crows, an ability that you can usually delay for half a minute without fearing losing a use over the duration of a fight, I don't know what else to say. Just because thrill has a passive benefit does not mean it is easier to get the optimal benefit from. Passive stats are the hardest thing to get the highest increase from because they rely on perfect play. Same goes for proc trinkets.
1558You'd pick a proc trinket over a stat trinket if they sim the same
1559 
1560Prier2019-10-07
1561okay guys
1562 
1563give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1564Any day of the week
1565 
1566Prier2019-10-07
1567i know how to solve this
1568 
1569give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1570Because procs are easier.
1571But when they sim worse
1572We have to use font
1573 
1574Keening2019-10-07
1575@Scoteh I can relate to this, but this is where I disagree with the entire thing. I know the majority in this forum wants the TOP-SIM strategy to be the only viable strategy, but my point is that the REAL damage increase the majority of players playing wow & hunter would see would come from suggestions like someone said before "WA to AmoC" or to take the route I was advocating for: toth & gale, and just forget about trying to fit crow into the rotation, I'm not saying crow is BAD, I'm saying the 9% crit is gives a LOT of leway to not fail with your uptime on DoD/frenzy.
1576 
1577give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1578And existencd is hell
1579 
1580Keening2019-10-07
1581yes you want to pick the procc trinket, maybe even if it sims 500 dps lower, if you can't optimize your use of trinket to live up to the SIM it will fall behind the trinket with the procc.
1582 
1583Prier2019-10-07
1584keening if you had the choice between walking up a 10km mountain everyday to collect clean drinking water or drinking sludge from a puddle cause it was easier and you were better at that  , what would you do?
1585 
1586give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1587Lmfao
1588Hook line and sinker
1589 
1590Prier2019-10-07
1591i think ive got him here boys
1592my master plan
1593 
1594Keening2019-10-07
1595I would go up as little as I had to, perhaps carry some down with me so I only had to go up there every few days
1596
1597 
1598Prier2019-10-07
1599is coming together
1600 
1601give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1602Look how he jumped on that throwaway joke
1603 
1604Keening2019-10-07
1605I would stilltdrink similiar amount of water tho, maybe a lil less.
1606 
1607Prier2019-10-07
1608i think my work is done here boys
1609 
1610Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1611HES ACTUALLY ANSWERED THAT the fuck is actually happening right now.
1612 
1613Tylkkor2019-10-07
1614drink vodka problem solved bitch :open_mouth:
1615i know im a genius guys
1616 
1617give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1618Then you switch out of the muddy puddlr
1619And learn to climb the mountain keening
1620Time to spec crows
1621 
1622Keening2019-10-07
1623give wordup loot or banIdag 13:50
1624@Keening at the end of the day, the situation is that you came here looking for validation for something that is, to put it simple, a fucking stupid choice. We're not going to support that. When you can, with a straight face, argue that playing badly with toth has a smaller impact than with crows, an ability that you can usually delay for half a minute without fearing losing a use over the duration of a fight, I don't know what else to say. Just because thrill has a passive benefit does not mean it is easier to get the optimal benefit from. Passive stats are the hardest thing to get the highest increase from because they rely on perfect play. Same goes for proc trinkets.
1625
1626
1627Youre overseeing the point: toth & gale gives more consistency in the other aspects of the class, giving you a real increase in uptime of frenzy & DoD that in many situations, especially aoe situations overshadow that one of Murder of Crows.
1628 
1629Prier2019-10-07
1630do you see what im getting at keening
1631 
1632Keening2019-10-07
1633I can answer you all day, no problem. my point still stands
1634 
1635Prier2019-10-07
1636the clean mountain water you have to walk 10 km for each day
1637is the correct way to play a spec
1638and the sludge
1639is ur dumb idea
1640 
1641Keening2019-10-07
1642it's more forgiving & easier to play with and that's all I want to put into the discussion
1643 
1644Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1645it doesnt though? Draco has explained why already.
1646 
1647Soull2019-10-07
1648Why are people arguing with a dude that clearly doesn’t want to hear what people have to say
1649 
1650give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1651Fuck me you're scandinavian. Please tell me you're not from denmark I'd hate to know we've produced someone like you somehow
1652 
1653Keening2019-10-07
1654see, now the character attacks again
1655you guys must be really neat to hang around
1656 
1657LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1658Kinda deserved, tho
1659 
1660Keening2019-10-07
1661sure leo.
1662 
1663Prier2019-10-07
1664im not attacking you i just cant understand why you wanna be drinking sludgey water for me
1665 
1666Tylkkor2019-10-07
1667:goatface:
1668 
1669Prier2019-10-07
1670drink the clean water
1671run crows
1672 
1673Tylkkor2019-10-07
1674damn we need that emote
1675 
1676Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1677Legit if Azor rereads this convo
1678my god.
1679Anureism at minimum.
1680 
1681Tylkkor2019-10-07
1682:goat: :slight_smile:
1683 
1684Keening2019-10-07
1685I don't really get the problem
1686 
1687Prier2019-10-07
1688weve noticed
1689 
1690Soull2019-10-07
1691The problem is crows is easier to play and better dps
1692 
1693Keening2019-10-07
1694Maximum dps given the right gear (sucky one that produce 51kdps doesnt count) AmoC setup & top simmed dps has the potential to give maximum dps.
1695
1696my angle: make a mistake and it's less forgiving than the one I'm proposing.
1697 
1698Soull2019-10-07
1699So why even bother learning sub optimal
1700 
1701Keening2019-10-07
1702just leave it at that
1703 
1704Prier2019-10-07
1705you shouldnt be  starting a fight with the mentality of " im going to make a mistake so im gonna run this instead"
1706just play better
1707ya dig
17084head
1709 
1710Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1711^ Make the 10km trip and dont spill water on the way down = orange log.
1712= big pog
1713 
1714Prier2019-10-07
1715finally someones using my example
1716i put alot of thought into that
1717 
1718Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1719i got you bro
1720 
1721Prier2019-10-07
1722oh no
1723hes here
1724goatface
1725hiude
1726 
1727Tylkkor2019-10-07
1728:goat:
1729 
1730Keening2019-10-07
1731:goat:
1732 
1733Prier2019-10-07
1734i hope azor find my water joke funny
1735 
1736Tylkkor2019-10-07
1737i dont understand why hunter have to walk 10km montain to get orange parse
1738 
1739Martin2019-10-07
1740Hello fellow master of beasts, when will we be able to tame druids
1741:pensive_mouse:
1742 
1743Prier2019-10-07
1744look my example wasnt perfect
1745but it served its purpose
1746 
1747Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1748Patch 8.7 to be precise @Martin
1749 
1750Martin2019-10-07
1751Nice
1752I will bookmark that
1753 
1754Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1755please do - please also remember 10km mountains are your friends
1756 
1757Yarpie2019-10-07
1758cant wait for 8.4 to be announced at blizzcon :slight_smile:
1759 
1760Azortharion2019-10-07
1761:blobhmmm:
1762 
1763Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
17641 emote.... thats it HAHA.
1765 
1766Silva2019-10-07
1767WAIT HOLD ON
1768 
1769LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1770I don't think it deserves even that, to be honest.
1771 
1772Yarpie2019-10-07
1773@Emlis thanks for the tip btw instantly went to around 80% uptime from 40-50% :Pepega:
1774
1775 
1776Emlis2019-10-07
1777:clap:
1778poggies
1779 
1780give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1781I wonder if goatface is like that dude from Harry potter named beardface. "IT'S  NOT BEARDFACE, IT'S BE'ARD FASEH!"
1782 
1783Scoteh2019-10-07
1784Isnt that scrubs?
1785 
1786give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1787It might be
1788It really might
1789Stuff blurs together
1790Scrubs is magical you know?
1791 
1792Emlis2019-10-07
1793old people memory
1794 
1795give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1796I wanted to rewatch scrubs last month but it's gone from netflix
1797Also shush emlis isn't it your bedtime soon
1798 
1799Roffle2019-10-07
1800It's on hulu
1801 
1802give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1803And other very free, very illegal alternatives that are a lot more compelling than trying to keep up with 8 different streaming services
1804I just couldn't be bothered to go further than check on Netflix if it was there at the time tbh
1805 
1806Vestaraa2019-10-07
1807Man what a great read
1808Respeccing when i get home
1809 
1810Keening2019-10-07
1811try it at least, let me know if it's more forgiving to your DoD / frenzy uptime.
1812 
1813Vestaraa2019-10-07
1814I thoght u left
1815Now its awkward
1816 
1817Keening2019-10-07
1818k
1819 
1820Scoteh2019-10-07
1821:eyes:
1822 
1823give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1824:onlypretending:
1825 
1826Vestaraa2019-10-07
1827Impressive u argue that, since your not good enough at the game yoy should never try to be better for 2 hours tho
1828 
1829Keening2019-10-07
1830k
1831
1832 
1833Emo2019-10-07
1834i completely see how toth could theoretically be better than crows because of how crit heavy we are
1835 
1836Keening2019-10-07
1837biggest gain is that it allows for "not perfect play" while still not losing out on the main buffs, DoD, Barbed Shot.
1838and it grows in AoE situations
1839 
1840Emo2019-10-07
1841thats not why i see it as theoretically better
1842 
1843Keening2019-10-07
1844outperforming crow by a long shot in aoe
1845 
1846Scoteh2019-10-07
1847Honestly the most impressive part of this is the definition if "perfect play" involving pressing 1 button every minute
1848That's a bold definition
1849 
1850Emo2019-10-07
1851crows is more complicated than that if you  can chain reset it in dungeons
1852 
1853Keening2019-10-07
1854Scoteh, that's not what i mean by not perfect play: The higher crit you have, the less mistakes you can make with barbed shot & DoD overlaps
1855as in: the more mistakes you're allowed to make
1856get some Aoe cleave in that fight and the 90% frenzy Aspeed will weigh heavy in no time.
1857 
1858Emo2019-10-07
1859like what mistakes? pressing your barbed shot early and hoping for another proc?
1860explain the mistakes you make that make toth worth
1861 
1862chonka2019-10-07
1863pressing barbed on cd i guess hehe
1864 
1865Keening2019-10-07
1866Pressing barbed more than you're allowed to without toth, obviously not on cd unless your build allows for it. -> but with uptime above 50% on BW your KC/Cobra will allow for some spam.
1867 
1868Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1869Fuck me here we go again
1870 
1871Emo2019-10-07
1872"Several people are typing"
1873 
1874Scoteh2019-10-07
1875:pepoHype:
1876 
1877Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1878I actually have a question about Mythic Azshara - Can i ask it without having spam in between about a pointless thing?
1879 
1880Keening2019-10-07
1881again in the wake of the earlier argument: I feel it's pressing to underscore that maximum potential DPS comes from simming with AmoC.
1882 
1883Tylkkor2019-10-07
1884:goat:
1885 
1886Emo2019-10-07
1887so you agree crows is better? kool
1888 
1889Keening2019-10-07
1890I agree crows has the potential to be better, and that's what i've said all the time.
1891 
1892Cerbi2019-10-07
1893amoc is just used on cooldown in sims, there is nothing to mess up, no real min/maxing, you just use the ability when you can
1894 
1895TheOld2019-10-07
1896meanwhile in the dreamgrove: " seeing the pufferfish fly and land on the target increases moral of the raid and will result in better overall dps" :pepeok:
1897 
1898Damkus2019-10-07
1899Keep it goin fellas I have 2 more hours of work
1900 
1901give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1902Keening, the thing is, you're entirely ignoring a different part of the equation here. No one is disputing that more AA cris would lead to more barbed shot procs and thus potential DoD procs (although given Thrill doesn't increase the chance to trigger the DoD buff, this is much smaller than the chance to just get another barbed shot". 
1903
1904However, because Thrill assumes 10.000 simulations of people executing the playstyle with thrill perfectly, that means that if you cast less overall casts than the sims, or you cast less kill commands than the sim expects, you lose out on the 9% crit on abilities that matter more than say, cobra shot, resulting in the "max thrill" thing being literally impossible to reach without perfect play. If you find Crows as an ability that requires one input every 60 seconds to be something you can reasonably "fuck up", then I can guarantee that you're not maximizing your kill commands, which means instead of 70K average kill commands, you're getting 9% crit on 20K average cobra shots, losing huge chunks of damage every time you make a slight misstep.
1905 
1906Keening2019-10-07
1907Cerbi: that's not the "mistakes" -> the 9% crit loss is the mistakes.
1908
1909 
1910Cerbi2019-10-07
19119% crit loss on auto attacks?
1912 
1913Keening2019-10-07
1914yes
1915 
1916Cerbi2019-10-07
1917how often do you think that actually bails you out of bad play
1918cause its not as often as you think
1919 
1920Vestaraa2019-10-07
1921:FeelsSmartMan:
1922Can u make the argument for galecallers again too
1923Id like to hear it
1924 
1925Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1926Please read what Draco just said.
1927 
1928Keening2019-10-07
1929Vestaraa, since you weren't here earlier, what do you mean?
1930 
1931Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1932Over and over and let me ask my question.
1933k thanks :slight_smile:
1934 
1935Emo2019-10-07
1936haha you cant make me respec because i cant read
1937 
1938Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1939not you emo
1940 
1941Emo2019-10-07
1942:feelspepoman:
1943 
1944give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1945@Emo https://i.imgur.com/PGEWNei.png
1946
1947 
1948Emo2019-10-07
1949perfect
1950 
1951Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1952Gents - Serious question now please- Progging on Azshara 9% wipe - very close to kill (need to clean up ward soaking in p4) Currently using Coral 445 & font 430 - Using font prepull/start of p2/before first add p3/Beginning of p4 - When would you consider it optimal to use coral throughout the fight (P1 being irrelevant im purely asking for Azshara p2 and onward) is it worth me just gaining stacks on Azshara until p4 or should i pop it during adds in p3. - Opinions from players who have used the same setup on their kills would be giga appreciated.
1953 
1954Prier2019-10-07
1955annddddd im back
1956 
1957Scoteh2019-10-07
1958Sign is different layout between the 2 panels
1959Low effort meme 3/10
1960 
1961Emo2019-10-07
1962basically on CD @Kazzo/Liam , if you wana know specifics i went through azors logs and some other top logs to see when they did it
1963 
1964give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1965P3 dps shouldn't be a concern, Kazzo, so keep stacking it for P4. P3 is all about living till the end of the "enrage", and if you do that, boss should easily be hitting 50% when you push
1966If it is a concern, use it in P3
1967 
1968Keening2019-10-07
1969@give wordup loot or ban 
1970
1971if you find Crows as an ability that requires one input every 60 seconds to be something you can reasonably "fuck up", then I can guarantee that you're not maximizing your kill commands, which means instead of 70K average kill commands, you're getting 9% crit on 20K average cobra shots, losing huge chunks of damage every time you make a slight misstep.
1972
1973I'm not saying that the crow is the "fuckup" I'm saying that if you don't have the 9% crit that toth brings your other skills can fuckup more often, and you'll lose out on frenzy & DoD.
1974 
1975give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1976You're still ignoring my argument
1977and saying something that's not relevant
1978 
1979Keening2019-10-07
1980@Vestaraa your very important comment up above, what do you mean?
1981
1982 
1983give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1984You're not getting max benefit from thrill
1985So comparing the max benefit of thrill to what you lose from AMoC is not fair, you'd need to assume you lose even more than say, 1K dps by picking thrill
1986 
1987Prier2019-10-07
1988i always wondered hunters were called huntards
1989 
1990give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1991because it's automatically going to be much harder to play optimally
1992than a single use button
1993 
1994Prier2019-10-07
1995i look at keening and understand
1996 
1997Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1998yeah ok so boss is around 53-55% when we push on average and she needs to be lower but our add damage has also been pretty inconsistent - sometimes not dying or people playing like spastics and missing spears.
1999 
2000Prier2019-10-07
2001he is the chosen one
2002 
2003give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2004Idk dude thinks that because an ability is passive
2005it makes shit easier
2006 
2007Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2008Hence my question.
2009 
2010give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2011it's a mystery
2012 
2013Tylkkor2019-10-07
2014its 1 button every minute 
2015@Keening how can you miss it ? 
2016Too busy planning your movment as a BM hunter lmao
2017 
2018give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2019@Kazzo/Liam On which side? Right side will have 15 seconds less to dps the boss before you gotta push the phase than left side due to the shield timings, which sucks dick (giving you 2 min 45 sec in the phase, vs 3 minutes)
2020But if you've not had a single clean P3 entry yet
2021ERh, p4*
2022Then I don't think you can judge if you need the extra boost there
2023 
2024Vestaraa2019-10-07
2025Didnt u say something about gale before
2026I just asusmed u meant galecallers
2027
2028 
2029give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2030oh no
2031 
2032Vestaraa2019-10-07
2033Maybe u meant the enchat
2034 
2035give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2036he's on about the enchant
2037 
2038Vestaraa2019-10-07
2039Enchant
2040Oh
2041:yikes:
2042 
2043give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2044Oh.
2045yea.
2046 
2047Vestaraa2019-10-07
2048@Keening since you’re so adamant about this toth build could u atleast link some logs and or details where your toth build outperforms your crows build
2049 
2050Emo2019-10-07
2051https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F6BRKhr2NGakbtgy#fight=10&type=casts&source=9&ability=303564&view=timeline  @Kazzo/Liam here is azors former rank 1 with visions minor omegalul, but you can see everytime he casts his coral on each target. makes sure to highlight the targets in the top too
2052 
2053Vestaraa2019-10-07
2054For science
2055 
2056Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2057Yeah we always take left first (using stack ranged strat) then push over at right pillar.  - we have had a few solid attempts and good entries as weve had a 9% wipe. we enter p4 with lust so i should continue to pool on Azshara if add dps isnt an issue.
2058 
2059give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2060Holy shit Kazzo
2061your raid leader is a moron :GWseremePeepoHappy:
2062Why do people use that strat
2063wtf
2064 
2065Keening2019-10-07
2066everyone is a moron in here that doesnt think exactly like you it seems
2067 
2068Emo2019-10-07
2069lEsS mOvEmEnT mAxImIzEs DpS
2070 
2071LeoZhekov2019-10-07
2072I think I figured out why keening is still on his argument. Perhaps he's playing on a controller and doesn't have the key for crows.
2073 
2074Keening2019-10-07
2075Leo I have keys for crows
2076I can press it more than each minute
2077 
2078give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2079No Keening
2080 
2081Keening2019-10-07
2082and I can maximize the use in most given situations
2083 
2084give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2085People are morons if they do dumb shit
2086 
2087Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2088Elaborate @give wordup loot or ban  - could you explain in DM? id like to understand a bit more if thats cool, I believe we are open to changing the strat to make it easier.
2089 
2090Emo2019-10-07
2091nah nah, you need them falconry gloves so when the crows come back to you you can safely hold them without them scratching you
2092 
2093free tirill green status2019-10-07
2094BM is a meme already is there any honest reason to come up with a meme build for a meme spec of a meme class?
2095 
2096chonka2019-10-07
2097one less button to press for a 400 dps loss fair trade XD
2098
2099 
2100Vestaraa2019-10-07
2101^
2102Its a bold stance to take when you say that since you’re not good you should never ever try to be good
2103Especially in here
2104Since were a competitive bubch
2105Bunch
2106 
2107free tirill green status2019-10-07
2108I've got a new spec for BM ready? You dont spec into anything that way you never have to worry about anything :pepegiggle:
2109 
2110Emo2019-10-07
2111i too cast  cobra shot with kill command ready to cast
2112 
2113Keening2019-10-07
2114my point, which doesnt occour to come through is that: you risk your frenzy & DoD stacks falling off more often than not, and in cleave & aoe situations crows lose value over toth.
2115
2116and, second point is, that if you do pick toth over crows is that gale(enchant...) gains value evening out the DoD proccs over the fight more equally.
2117
2118third point: it's easier for new players to press 3 buttons than it is to press 4 while worrying about the buffs of not pressing the first buttons properly occouring more often.
2119
2120going back to the craddle of my argument is: has anyone considered the more relaxed build that allows for more mistakes while still maintaining the buffs mentioned as something for beginners, who actually follow the guide mainly, rather than simming their characters? 
2121
2122--> and 3 hours later the conclusion is, no: we have not; no we will not: AmoC SIMS HIGHER. rofl
2123 
2124free tirill green status2019-10-07
2125If people struggle with 4 buttons then I worry for the future
2126 
2127chonka2019-10-07
2128we got your point but than again is it worth 150k crows do each min, not really
2129 
2130Keening2019-10-07
2131people do struggle with 4 buttons and if you haven't noticed already you should play more pugs
2132 
2133Emo2019-10-07
2134people here dont really pug 4 keys tho :monkaHmm:
2135 
2136Toth is real2019-10-07
2137it's been 5 hours
2138 
2139give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2140Why do you keep mentioning frenzy
2141you've been told like fifteen times
2142that frenzy is irrelevant
2143 
2144Keening2019-10-07
2145Chonka they did not get my point, truly
2146 
2147Teheebae2019-10-07
2148How are you still going Keening???
2149 
2150Keening2019-10-07
2151The frenzy is NOT irrelevant mate
2152lol
2153 
2154Damkus2019-10-07
2155ding dong your opinion is wrong
2156 
2157free tirill green status2019-10-07
2158Perhaps they did and your point is just wrong
2159 
2160Keening2019-10-07
2161this is funny
2162 
2163Prier2019-10-07
2164yeh i think everyone gets ur point keening
2165we are just telling you
2166its wron
2167 
2168Keening2019-10-07
2169thanks, so stop trying to trigger me.
2170 
2171Malarkus2019-10-07
2172I used Toth during my last clear @Keening , it's fine :slight_smile:
2173
2174 
2175LeoZhekov2019-10-07
2176Stop getting triggered
2177 
2178Martin2019-10-07
2179https://tenor.com/view/stop-hes-dead-already-gif-11313631
2180 
2181Keening2019-10-07
2182@Vestaraa is such a follower & scrub.
2183like: I don't have any own arguments but I still flame
2184 
2185Emo2019-10-07
2186big brain
2187 
2188Malarkus2019-10-07
2189I didn't combine it with gale tho
2190 
2191Keening2019-10-07
2192Sim Gale-force vs Nest
2193 
2194Malarkus2019-10-07
2195its a little better
2196 
2197Keening2019-10-07
2198and it's more consistent
2199for DoD proccs, over a given timeframe
2200so less overlapping
2201 
2202give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2203The issue is Keening, you've been told repeatedly why you're wrong, but the fun thing is that while you keep claiming that we're just circlejerking and refuse to view your point, you're doing the exact same thing to us, but we actually know what we're doing and have peers to confirm that we're not being idiots. You, on the other hand, refuse to aknowledge that your assumptions are way off despite having zero proof except "I think a lot of people feel this way because I've done pugs and people play bad".
2204 
2205Vestaraa2019-10-07
2206You’re literally not presenting any arguments
2207Aside from ’im gonna repeat myself until everyone else grows tired so I win by default’
2208 
2209Emo2019-10-07
2210i thought we banned this guy for not giving werdup loot :monkaHmm:
2211 
2212Keening2019-10-07
2213@give wordup loot or ban well i'll tell you something mate, I've people private messaging me right now agreeing with me
2214 
2215give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2216No werdup loot has dropped yet Emo
2217Sure you do Keening
2218 
2219Vestaraa2019-10-07
2220Screenshot it please
2221 
2222give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2223I've got trump telling me he thinks I've got the best arguments as well
2224Can't share though
2225 
2226Keening2019-10-07
2227No way i'm putting them in front of you guys
2228 
2229give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2230National security
2231 
2232Vestaraa2019-10-07
2233Provide any real evidence and we will believe u
2234Just edit the names out
2235Its very sinple
2236Simple
2237 
2238Emo2019-10-07
2239nah include names so we know azor is a filthy toth user
2240jk dont use names
2241 
2242Cerbi2019-10-07
2243the easy mode guide on icy veins used to have this build and it added more confusion to new players because they didnt see anyone else using, then questioned why we would even suggest a sub optimal build just because someone is new
2244 
2245give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2246This is literally the "YOU WOULDN'T KNOW MY GIRLFRIEND, SHE GOES TO ANOTHER SCHOOL" of arguments
2247 
2248Emo2019-10-07
2249draco you dont know that, my gf lives in the nursing home
2250
2251 
2252Vestaraa2019-10-07
2253https://imgflip.com/i/3clj5i
2254Imgflip
2255Oh no it's retarded!
2256
2257 
2258chonka2019-10-07
2259well it got r1 to that korean on zaqul so has it uses :stuck_out_tongue:
2260 
2261Cerbi2019-10-07
2262galestrike enchant is actually fine though if your goal is m+, it's barely behind on single target but better for aoe
2263 
2264Keening2019-10-07
2265
2266 
2267Emo2019-10-07
2268wtf is a borjan
2269what, what is a direktmeddelandehistorik
2270yall say that shit to each other?
2271 
2272Malarkus2019-10-07
2273it sims like 300 less than crows
2274 
2275Emo2019-10-07
2276fucking europenas lmao
2277 
2278give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2279Ok not danish
2280Thank fuck
2281 
2282Malarkus2019-10-07
2283why is everyone here so upset
2284let the man use toth
2285 
2286give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2287We're not upset he uses TOTH
2288 
2289Sikte2019-10-07
2290What is a foreign language :Pepega: :Pepega:
2291:Pepega: :Pepega: :Pepega: :Pepega: :Pepega:
2292 
2293give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2294We're upset he wants everyone else to use it
2295 
2296Prier2019-10-07
2297we dont want him suggesting to other hunters to used a sub par build aswell
2298 
2299Toth is real2019-10-07
2300He wanted the guide to recommend it as an "easy option"
2301 
2302Keening2019-10-07
2303They're upset I say it's more forgiving for beginners & mistakes in general
2304
2305 
2306Vestaraa2019-10-07
2307Its not thi
2308 
2309give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2310It's not
2311 
2312Vestaraa2019-10-07
2313Thats the argument
2314 
2315give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2316That's the issue
2317 
2318Vestaraa2019-10-07
2319It might seem easier coz u have to have 1 less apm
2320 
2321Damkus2019-10-07
2322this mf just took a picture of his screen
2323 
2324give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2325It's more difficult because you don't play perfectly
2326 
2327Vestaraa2019-10-07
2328But in reality it isnt
2329 
2330give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2331Also we can totally figure out who that casual is, we have the last 3 letters of his name
2332 
2333Emo2019-10-07
2334damnit damkus
2335 
2336Keening2019-10-07
2337damkus yes, cause it was easiest way to give you the printscreen
2338 
2339give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2340IM COMMING FOR YOU AQZ
2341 
2342Damkus2019-10-07
2343obviously, sorry
2344 
2345give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2346only 14538 people online
2347 
2348Keening2019-10-07
2349just leave the dude be.
2350 
2351give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2352It's called a joke
2353 
2354Keening2019-10-07
2355some people doesnt find your jokes funny
2356 
2357give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2358something you've missed a fair few times in the past few hours
2359
2360 
2361Keening2019-10-07
2362no offense
2363 
2364Ziar2019-10-07
2365How is crows Complicated? You just use it once a minute
2366 
2367give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2368Others do :GWcmeisterPeepoShrug:
2369Can't please everyone
2370 
2371Prier2019-10-07
2372guys i invented this new technology trhat lets me capture a part of my screen and send it to you guys
2373
2374 
2375Emo2019-10-07
2376i think draco is retarded
2377 
2378Prier2019-10-07
2379pretty cool
2380 
2381give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2382:onlypretending:
2383 
2384Emo2019-10-07
2385GET ME OUT OF YOUR SCREENCAP
2386YOU DIDNT BLUR MY NAME
2387 
2388give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2389YOU WILL LIVE WITH ME IN THE SCREENCAP FOREVER NOW EMO
2390 
2391Keening2019-10-07
2392Ziar you use it once a minute, but it's complications are "hidden" in the way that you lose 9% crit on your key abilities which gives you less room for error
2393 
2394Prier2019-10-07
2395what about my jokes keening
2396 
2397Emo2019-10-07
2398NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2399 
2400Prier2019-10-07
2401i feel like ive been on fire all night
2402 
2403Martin2019-10-07
2404STOP YELLING OR IM CALLING IN THE INTERNET POLICE
2405 
2406Vestaraa2019-10-07
2407Jesus how long can we go
2408@Keening do u have logs of you using this build in any type of content
2409 
2410chonka2019-10-07
2411!nobully
2412 
2413C.A.R.L.BOT2019-10-07
2414https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/193476188100886528/255525304498520064/CIC11C5UsAAPrK1.jpg
2415
2416 
2417Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2418Apparently keening can go for hours - his gf must love him holy shit
2419 
2420Emo2019-10-07
2421THE INTERNET POLICE CANT TAKE AWAY THAT I PICKED TOTH OVER CROWS
2422 
2423Martin2019-10-07
2424:WAYTOODANK:
2425 
2426Prier2019-10-07
2427must be that puddle sludge giving him secret powers
2428 
2429Damkus2019-10-07
2430nice im in a screenshot
2431 
2432Emo2019-10-07
2433https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QHmBy2TNhPqrpcxZ#fight=32&type=damage-done&translate=true&source=11
2434 
2435Prier2019-10-07
2436use fools been drinking the clean water this whole time
2437
2438 
2439Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2440:joy::joy: prier stop HAH
2441 
2442Meraned2019-10-07
2443thats it, im calling bully hunters
2444:blobwobpolice:
2445 
2446Ziar2019-10-07
24479% toth crit doesnt affect pets right?
2448 
2449give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2450@Keening I will repeat this:
2451DIfficulty of getting 100% use of Crows: Use it on cooldown, once a minute.
2452
2453Difficulty of getting 100% use of TOTH: Have to play your rotation as perfect as a sim, because the value comes from you getting more crits, which means if you hit 120 cobra, 60 kill commands instead of 100 cobras, 80 kill commands, you lose the value of 9% crit on 20 kill commands, which is a huge hidden "cost". Yes, you will have a high uptime on 9% crit from TOTH, but unless you play perfectly, that 9% crit is not worth as much as you think it is based on the sim.
2454Crows, even if you're borderline retarded, is very easy to get 100% benefit from
2455TOTH is near impossible.
2456 
2457Prier2019-10-07
2458that explains why only koreans are using it
2459its an old meme sir but it checks out
2460 
2461Emo2019-10-07
2462also toth is semi ok for aoe, keep 3 staks of frenzy for aoe pad
2463fukin padders
2464 
2465Martin2019-10-07
2466@give wordup loot or ban the forbidden R word :GASP:
2467 
2468give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2469There's actually only one word in this discord that's banlisted
2470And I've found it
2471 
2472Cerbi2019-10-07
2473also if youre prone to dropping frenzy, youre also dropping toth
2474 
2475Meraned2019-10-07
2476enkrypted?
2477 
2478Emo2019-10-07
2479spitting cobra? @give wordup loot or ban
2480oh no ive been banned
2481 
2482Cerbi2019-10-07
2483since theyre essentially tied together
2484 
2485Prier2019-10-07
2486maybe we should all use stampede instead only gotta cast that once every 3 minutes
2487dang
2488so much time to do other things
2489keening is onto something here
2490 
2491Martin2019-10-07
2492I believe the N word is banned, because i have a screencap of a guy adding lots of different unicodes to bypass it
2493:KEKW:
2494 
2495give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2496DING Martin
2497it is indeed
2498 
2499Martin2019-10-07
2500Man, spitting cobra had such potential
2501 
2502give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2503message doesn't even show if I type it
2504 
2505Martin2019-10-07
2506:PepeHands:
2507why is the range bad
2508 
2509Emo2019-10-07
2510ok but what if im black?
2511thats racist
2512 
2513Martin2019-10-07
2514its just with the hard R its banned
2515 
2516Emo2019-10-07
2517hard R is what i need to say
2518 
2519give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2520I don't even remember how I found out anymore
2521I just know we all started swearing for 5 mins
2522trying to find others
2523 
2524Cerbi2019-10-07
2525im guessing prox was involved
2526 
2527give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2528that were banned
2529That's
2530a fair assumption
2531 
2532Martin2019-10-07
2533your message gets automodded
2534and deleted
2535 
2536Emo2019-10-07
2537its gone
2538cunt
2539whore
2540ok yeah just n word
2541 
2542Meraned2019-10-07
2543they cant ban cunt
2544 
2545Martin2019-10-07
2546just racism banned.
2547 
2548Prier2019-10-07
2549whatever you do dont say the K word
2550 
2551Meraned2019-10-07
2552otherwise prox and emlis cant type anymore
2553 
2554Emo2019-10-07
2555cracker jacks
2556 
2557Martin2019-10-07
2558Man this truly is the BM channel
2559 
2560Prier2019-10-07
2561he will appear in chat and haunt us all
2562
2563 
2564Martin2019-10-07
2565Bad Manners :rageW:
2566 
2567Emo2019-10-07
2568chink
2569 
2570give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2571Dude you should have been around when we all got sent to the gulag Martin
2572 
2573Vestaraa2019-10-07
2574Did he leave
2575 
2576Damkus2019-10-07
2577miss being #4050
2578 
2579Martin2019-10-07
2580I'm old
2581I've been around
2582 
2583give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2584#4913 will forever hold a place in my heart
2585 
2586Martin2019-10-07
2587I think i joined back at the end of wod
2588 
2589give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2590It was more of a 2 hour event though
2591 
2592Martin2019-10-07
2593but i left and rejoined some time ago, so i look new
2594oh
2595 
2596Teheebae2019-10-07
2597Martin is true OG
2598 
2599Keening2019-10-07
2600:goat:
2601 
2602Martin2019-10-07
2603Aren't we all sheeps
2604:sheep:
2605 
2606Meraned2019-10-07
2607:fish:
2608 
2609Emo2019-10-07
2610:gorilla:
2611 
2612Meraned2019-10-07
2613:monkey:
2614 
2615Emo2019-10-07
2616hey thats racist
2617cut it off
2618 
2619Martin2019-10-07
2620:see_no_evil:
2621:hear_no_evil:
2622 
2623Emo2019-10-07
2624reee
2625 
2626Martin2019-10-07
2627:speak_no_evil:
2628 
2629Meraned2019-10-07
2630:agooglemonkey:
2631 
2632Silva2019-10-07
2633Wait hold on, we dont get hard r-word pass while we play BM hunter?
2634 
2635Vestaraa2019-10-07
2636Ok serious question
2637Am i to delay my BW until I have 80 focus
2638Or juat bite the bullet and bw at lower if i dont pool enough
2639 
2640Emo2019-10-07
2641bite the bullet
2642you failed at pooling prior
2643 
2644chonka2019-10-07
2645well sim doesn't pool so you might get few dps but don't really see the focus starving a lot nowdays
2646thing is its not that easy to plan because bw comes a lot sooner if you get barbed proc
2647 
2648Droxer2019-10-07
2649I'm trying to scroll up to find the first message of this TotH talk but it just keep going
2650this was like 5 hours
2651 
2652Emo2019-10-07
2653also if it comes off sooner, you casted some barbed shots. which means you will still be rolling in focus by first gcd in bw i assume
2654 
2655chonka2019-10-07
2656ye you could cap focus
2657 
2658Cerbi2019-10-07
2659or if you pool and use bw, then get a couple procs
2660 
2661give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2662Droxer
2663 
2664Cerbi2019-10-07
2665you just sit at focus cap spamming bs
2666 
2667give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2668it was a slow-ish day
2669 
2670Emo2019-10-07
2671so question regarding the new way to maintain DoD since frenzy is irrelevant. we just casts barbed shot when at 2 stacks and whenever we dont have DoD/about to fall off
2672 
2673chonka2019-10-07
2674something like that not sure if current apl is using it more agresivly on like 1.8 stack or something
2675 
2676give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
26771.4 chonka
2678 
2679Emo2019-10-07
26801.4 stack what? remaining buff duration?
2681 
2682Cerbi2019-10-07
26831.4 charges
2684if you have nothing else to press and you have > 1.4 charges, you use barbed shot
2685 
2686Martin2019-10-07
2687"Kill command has a change to grant you 1.4 charges of barbed shot"
2688 
2689Fructose2019-10-07
2690Folks how do you handle Shivervenom trinket in your progression runs?
2691Is someone forced to use one no matter how much a DPS hit it is for them personally?
2692Which would make sense imo
2693 
2694Azortharion2019-10-07
2695Put it on the guy who loses the least
2696 
2697Freezetrap2019-10-07
2698i think there are people from my group who actually want to use it :person_shrugging:
2699 
2700chonka2019-10-07
2701ye i use it also really aggressive afraid of missing barbed procs :stuck_out_tongue:
2702 
2703Fructose2019-10-07
2704I just noticed we had 0 trinkets last night, and that's while we have 3 hunters and a BrM tank with the weapons
2705That's roughly 4-5k lost raid dps
2706 
2707chonka2019-10-07
2708don't think that much but ye more than caster would lose
2709its like 1.3% lost on hunter i think
2710 
2711Toth is real2019-10-07
2712only casters than don't want that trinket are like fire mages and destro locks
2713 
2714Fructose2019-10-07
2715I just added the APL for no shivervenom and it was like 920 DPS loss for me
2716 
2717chonka2019-10-07
2718ok it says 1.6% for me so ye around 900 dps
2719ye big nerf to raid not to use it, you really need to be selfish hehe
2720 
2721Fructose2019-10-07
2722Okay, found out our destro lock has a 450 in his bag
2723Yeah that'll do lmao
2724
2725 
2726Toth is real2019-10-07
2727I'd rather not
2728 
2729give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2730https://i.imgur.com/4ZMzyWB.png when someone questions crows
2731
2732@Azortharion himself right now watching me do this https://i.imgur.com/KgmF4Kl.png
2733
2734 
2735Martin2019-10-07
2736https://tenor.com/view/black-goat-rearing-standing-hind-legs-gif-5536623
2737@Azortharion what is your favorite color of goat
2738 
2739Azortharion2019-10-07
2740I thought I knew myself.. That I had an identity.
2741 
2742Martin2019-10-07
2743gonna do a visit to pandaria later
2744 
2745Azortharion2019-10-07
2746But today I learned that I am merely goatface
2747Thank you @Keening for opening my eyes to my true self
2748 
2749Martin2019-10-07
2750In the end...Aren't we all goatface
2751 
2752give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2753https://i.imgur.com/HhxBrkq.png join us.
2754
2755 
2756Martin2019-10-07
2757Mindless sheep following activison
2758In hopes of some temporary dopamine boosts
2759:peperain:
2760 
2761Azortharion2019-10-07
2762I am on the arlanda express to Stockholm
2763Where do you live Martin
2764 
2765Lyge2019-10-07
2766Is potion of unbridled fury much better than focused resolve? For single target fights in EP?
2767 
2768Azortharion2019-10-07
2769Yeah
2770 
2771give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2772stockholm syndrome eh
2773 
2774Teheebae2019-10-07
2775https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLYvZ5sX28
2776YouTube
2777V∆GUE
2778Taylor Swift - Trouble (Goat Remix)
2779
2780This is Azor :OMEGALUL:
2781 
2782Martin2019-10-07
2783@Azortharion Kalmar
2784So south
2785 
2786Vestaraa2019-10-07
2787Whats this goatface mene
2788 
2789Emo2019-10-07
2790calling goatface a meme is rude
2791 
2792give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2793Well you see
2794the gem you were discussing with earlier
2795couldn't see Azors' name when Azor responded
2796as he'd gone full retard and named himself "            "
2797https://i.imgur.com/6OTSi9k.png
2798
2799We had a vote and decided that Azor now goes by Goatface.
2800I'm going to try and make it a thing in Gallywix as well, help me out Vestara
2801 
2802Xath2019-10-07
2803what in god's name did I come back to
2804 
2805give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2806Goatface.
2807That is what.
2808 
2809Damkus2019-10-07
2810@Xath run toth
2811 
2812Xath2019-10-07
2813that's like a 1k dps downgrade unless we have another degenerate build that's becoming good
2814 
2815Scoteh2019-10-07
2816Please dont start him again
2817 
2818give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2819Xath do you have like
2820an hour
2821 
2822Vestaraa2019-10-07
2823Will do
2824But i dont do much there
2825 
2826Scoteh2019-10-07
2827Just run toth, dont make eye contact.
2828 
2829Vestaraa2019-10-07
2830Havent even boosted yet