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1The Great PG2 Debate. Begin 2017-05-16. End {Still going}.
2http://dan-ball.jp/en/bbs/dust2.html
3Archived by Amazingdude. Last updated 2017-10-19.
4Comments irrelevant to debate have been excluded.
5Comments may have been slightly edited to ease readibility, but the message was not altered.
6
7================================================== {Begin great debate!}
8
9amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/16 10:35
10
11Climate change is not manmade, is not an issue, and runs in natural cycles. more co2 is good for earth, and fossil fuels are perhaps the most important thing humanity has discovered.
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14
15Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/16 15:40
16
17Natural cycles tend to end with extinctions and/or die=offs if left unchecked, this we have a forestfire safety program despite knowing that forestfires absolutely vital for many species to reproduce effectively.
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19Natural or not, a change of this scale isn't something civilization will be able to weather without exerting control to significantly slow the rate of change.
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23skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/17 06:46
24
25TK: We actually do allow natural forest fires (controlled burns) to occur. Forest fires are mainly only largely dangerous when brush accumulates to an unusual degree, or when the weather is unusually hot or dry.
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29Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/17 07:18
30
31Yeah that's what I was saying; just because something is within the range of normal, doesn't mean we let it happen uncontrolled. In the case of climate change the only people with any incentive to argue against controlling it are just trying to pinch pennies or otherwise avoid the responsibility of controlling it.
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35amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/17 10:41
36
37@TK Educate yourself. Watch these videos. We cant stop it, so why should we worry? The medieval warm period didnt kill everyone
38
39https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJWq1FeGpCw
40https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSrjAXK5pGw
41https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Teja5YNCo
42https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDWEjSDYfxc
43https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdbSxyXftc
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46
47Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/17 18:07
48
49You don't have any text sources? I don't want youtube thinking polluting my suggested links more than the Bee Movie already has.
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52
53Botty McBotface			#fc5Ccs22 2017/05/17 21:36
54
55I, too, bring up controversial scientific beliefs on the forums of Japanese browser game sites.
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59amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/18 07:33
60
61@TK
62incognito. if u aint willing to see both sides of the issue, you aint informed.
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66skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/18 09:46
67
68To be fair, if you take the side of the issue with significantly less support from the majority of scientists in the field in question, it's a good chance you're probably not informed either.
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71
72amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/18 12:10
73
74@skyk
75the scientists are all paid off to preach the alarmist fear mongering agenda that were gonna cook to death and sink into the ocean. ive researched both sides, believe me.
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79skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/18 12:15
80
81Amazingdude: I am a scientist. I have spent several years working and spending time with environmental researchers. If you met these people, you would realize how ridiculous it is to claim that they have been paid off. These are the sorts of people that duck tape their socks because they can't afford to buy new ones.
82
83On the other hand, the lobbies that benefit from environmental deregulation, which are the ones promoting anti=climate change, have huge amounts of money at stake.
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86
87Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/18 21:33
88
89Are we seriously having the FUCKING global warming argument again???
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92
93Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 04:40
94
95Occam's Razor, ameighzingdude. You're suggesting that it's more likely that 97% of every goddamn climate expert on Earth has been bribed by vast sums of money. Who? Who could possibly have that much money and be willing to throw it around for basically no reason?
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98
99Molefight				#jZJeWsWO 2017/05/19 05:29
100
101@Torture King
102George Soros and the Democrat party, but it's mostly the schools that are brainwashing students.
103
104Also, wouldn't climate change just balance itself out? If it gets too hot it rains, which cools the earth. If co2 levels rise, plants will grow at a faster rate, which will lower the co2 levels.
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108skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 06:22
109
110Unfortunately, neither of those elements would cancel out climate change. In fact, both cause further disruption, through extreme weather and dispersal of invasive plant species.
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113
114Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/19 06:58
115
116
117Human development and activity, especially in developed and developing countries, is unsustainable anyway. Surely we can agree on that.
118
119@Molefight
120That's a very simplistic view of things. The earth is far more complex than a single equilibrium. Biological and physical processes are far more diverse than that. 
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123
124amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 07:46
125
126https://pastebin.com/uT23FX2k
127
128@skyk
129What happens is the alarmist industry pays the organization, which tells the scientists to exaggerate their data to make it look like were cooking to death, and the organization pockets the rest
130 
131@TK
132Its explained in the second video in the list. here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSrjAXK5pGw. Not every single one is paid off. Only the biggest ones, and they trick people into believing its real using falsified data. The 97% fact only states that climate is changing. It doesnt say anything about the degree of climate change or the effects. Climate is changing, like it always has, and always will, and this brief warm period isnt gonna kill us all. The roman warm period was hotter than today, and the enviornment wasnt all fucked up then, so why would it now? Its climate alarmist exaggering what always happens, and taking advantage of it to gain power.
133 
134@molefight
135You are absolutely right, and that is one of the primary driving factors in climate fluctuation.
136 
137@T&W
138Its unsustainable because the enviornmeltaists are not letting us use the full potential of the earth. They are preventing us from using vast amounts of land, just because theres some uninportant thing there. Enviornmentalism is dangerous, and is ultimately going to lead to the extinction of the human species. We cannot advance as a species if we do not use the full potential of the planet we are given. We can support everyone with the earth, if we could use the full earth to our advantage.
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141
142Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 09:19
143
144>Calls people alarmist
145>"Environmentalism is dangerous and will lead to our extinction"
146
147Sure, we should just fill our waterways with DDT and industrial run=off the way god intended.
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150
151skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 09:52
152
153What exactly is the "alarmist industry", and how would they have more funding and more to gain than the oil and coal industries?
154
155Also, how can environmentalism lead to extinction? By definition, it will only prevent further expansion.
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158
159Molefight				#jZJeWsWO 2017/05/19 10:12
160
161Cats have always been aggressive towards me. I never have figured out why.
162
163Pesticides, pollution and genetically modified crops are all threats to our environment. I just don't find the idea that co2 is causing the earth to heat very convincing.
164
165So let's just agree to disagree on climate change.
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168
169skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 10:35
170
171This isn't really a situation where it's appropriate to "agree to disagree". Only one side can be correct, and if climate change actually is occurring, the consequences of not acting now are going to be very significant in the future.
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174
175amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 10:43
176
177https://pastebin.com/UfSyQ6Ak
178
179Jesus crist the char limit is too short
180
181@TK
182Yeah, maybe I did bash enviornmentalism too hard. I'm talking more about the preservationists who shut down a whole fucking city just so a few animals can roam free, or who drain an entire lake in a state severely in drought just to save 10 fishes. The point is, reducing the amount of land we can use and making corporations tiptoe around a minefield of pointless regulations will only hurt humanity in the long run.
183 
184@skyk
185The alarmist industry are the enviornmentalists. They are taking advantage of the natural warming period we are in, and are exploiting it for publicity and support. The alarmist industry began in China to make us afraid of warming earth 1 degree every hundred years, and be less competetitive. The enviornmentlists ate it up, and the myth has persisted to this day, however every prediction they have made has turned out false, and their credibility wanes by the day.
186 
187Preventing necessary expansion with a growing population is only a bad thing. Eventually, we will outgrow what the enviornmentalists allow us to use, and then we will run out of food, resulting in conflict, famine, disease, and possibly war. All to save a few animals that would have gone extinct anyway without humans.
188 
189except global warming is not happening as you alarmists believe. Humans have no impact. We are just in another warm period, like before. Earth didnt fall into chaos then, so why would it now? Climate change is natural, unstoppable, and a constant force of nature. Our current warm period has levelled off in 1998, and will stay that way for decades to come. The consequences will be small, as this warming is just a typical point in history.
190 
191@molefight
192I disagree, except on pollution. Personally, I only believe pollution only matters in areas that humans use or live in. Dumping shitloads of waste in the ocean or siberian tundra isnt an issue, since its not affecting anybody. Your asolutely right on the co2 thing. More CO2 is good, as it promotes plant growth, which will mean more food, more animals, more oxygen, etc. co2 does not contribute a significant amount to the greenhouse effect, as that is 95% water vapor. It will take 1000ppm of co2 just to warm up half a degree, which nobody except scientists will notice. CO2 is good for the earth, and fossil fuels are the ultimate energy source, as its very cheap and plentiful, as well as being good for the earth. Back in precambrian time, co2 was over 10,000ppm.
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195
196Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 11:00
197
198I'm afraid you're not in very rational company, Molefight.
199
200@Ameighzingdude
201The oceans aren't important? Seriously? The thing that produces 95% of the world's oxygen supply and the bottom of the food chain isn't important? Sure the tundra is by and large a wasteland with maybe 15 distinct species per continent most of which are lichens or mosquitoes, but the ocean might as well be the most important part of the natural world.
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204
205amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 11:13
206
207I must ask, did anyone watch the 5 videos i listed earlier?
208
209@TK
210Of course oceans are important. But theres so much ocean that any pollution is so dilute its barely even traceable. Its like a drop of water in a gas can.
211If anything, Molefight is the most rational of us here.
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215skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 11:25
216
217I watched the videos. The "science" in them is horrible. A line graph correlating fossil fuel use with sanitation proves that fossil fuels are eco-friendly? I could show you a graph that correlates ice cream consumption with piracy, but it wouldn't prove causation.
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220
221Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 11:37
222
223The Great Garbage Patch begs to differ.
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226
227amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 12:14
228
229@skyk
230There actually is correlation. More fossil fuels mean more energy production, which makes sanitation possible.
231
232@TK
233The "great garbage patch" is only a few hundred feet across. It is vastly exaggerated and abused by alarmsits to promote the false narritave that we are making a trash island.
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237skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 12:22
238
239If you can't understand the difference between correlation and causation, I'm just going to stop discussing this.
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242
243amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 12:30
244
245@skyk
246Causation means A causes B. Correlation means A and B have a relationship, but neither is caused by the other. Using fossil fuels do not cause increased sanitation. There is, however, an inderect relationship between fossil fuel use and sanitation. Indirect.
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249
250Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 12:36
251
252It weighs 7,000,000 tons. Of plastic. The material we use specifically because it's sturdy and lightweight. And it's concentrated in a very specific area, disproving your assertion that whatever we put in the ocean is too diluted to matter. And it's poisoning everything around it because fish are stupid and think the smaller pieces are krill.
253
254Look, how about we go with Molefight's idea to stop before this gets really bad and agree that the best compromise would be to move all our heavy industry to Mars. Earth stops getting polluted, oil/coal dependent industries can fcuk up the air and soil all they want without endangering any of Mars' nonexistent wildlife, and if global warming turns out to be a thing and melts the ice caps then we get some much-needed terraforming out of it instead of living underwater in the year 3000.
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257
258Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/19 12:37
259
260@amazingdude
261"I know there is correlation. The problem is that correlation does not equal causation. Not only that, but better sanitation doesn't even mean the same thing as a better environment, it just means more transportation of garbage.
262
263"Indirect relationship" means that there's NOT a correlation.
264There's an "indirect relationship" between me and a rock that weighs the same as me. There's an "indirect relationship" between an apple and a candle regarding the fact that neither tastes like a dirty sock. There's an "indirect relationship" between the number of films Nicholas Cage starred in this year and the number of suicides in Mexico this year.
265
266Honestly, do you even read your comments before you post them?
267
268At this point, I'm pretty sure you're not having this discussion "in good faith", so I'm just going to stop involving myself."
269~skyk
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272
273amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 15:02
274
275@Vidkunssonn
276There is no relationship between your weight and the weight of a rock. There is no relationship between cage movies and mexican suicides. Your just being stupid. Both examples compare 2 completely unrelated things. Explain how nic cage movies cause mexicans to kill themselves.
277
278@TK
279Its only one area, not the whole ocean. 99% of the ocean is perfectly habitable. Honestly, who gives a shit about a few fish? It not gonna kill us. Moving industry to mars would not work. Itll be to expensive to ship to earth. If you think were gonna be underwater in 3000 due to human activity, you are insane.
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283Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 23:38
284
285We eat the fish that eat the fish that eat the fish that eat the plastic. There's no such thing as a closed system and you'd do well to abandon such a bronze age idea.
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289Eta Leonid				#zTSrxt1B 2017/05/20 00:10
290
291@amazingdude He was making an example. Like there is an indirect relationship to me liking burning people and how often the Chechen Oblast rebels. Also, you need to think before you post.
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294
295Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/20 04:08
296
297@amazingdude
298The relationship between me and the rock is that we both weigh ~170lbs. The relationship between the apple and the candle is that neither taste like the dirty sock. The relationship between Nick Cages' film rates and the suicides in Mexico is that while there are more movies he's in in a year, there is also more suicides in Mexico.
299
300AS I SAID BEFORE, all of these relationships are indirect, implying there is NOT a correlation. There's a relationship because there's a similarity, and that relationship is indirect because the similarities are not caused by the same force. You were trying to put "indirect relationship" and "correlation" together and make it sound like they mean the same thing, and I was plaining to you what the term you used ACTUALLY means.
301
302You're going off the handle with this. Calling me stupid because you couldn't understand my explanation of the thing you used wrong is a sign you shouldn't be participating in this discussion. Do as @skyk says and stop where you're at now before things start to get worse for ALL of us.
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305
306Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/20 06:00
307
308@Greywolf
309How is Amazingdude ever going to understand earth's natural processes when he can't even understand what you're saying?
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312
313amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/20 07:37
314
315https://pastebin.com/xEdD8tp8 
316
317@TK
318The amount of plastic fish eat is slim to none compared to the mass of the fish.
319 
320@eta
321His examples were not comparable to the relationship between fossil fuel use and sanitation. I do think before I post.
322 
323@vidkunssonn
324You clearly do not understand. You are beyond repair. Burning fossil fuels produces energy, and you can use that energy to improve sanitation. Doing A produces B, which is used to do C. Therefore, A and C are related. Its called syllogism. By your logic, if X causes Y and Y causes Z, X and Z are completely unrelated, because X does not directly cause Z.
325 
326@T&W
327Vid does not understand me. Yes, I do understand natural processes. Warm and cold cycles, carbon cycle, water cycle, etc.
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330
331Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/20 09:12
332
333Your arguments would make more sense if you were a nuclear power shill instead of a combustion power shill, just FYI. The yields are incomparable for how little actually goes into it.
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337Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/20 10:34
338
339https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=e5d0h3d5c0
340
341"By your logic, if X causes Y and Y causes Z, X and Z are completely unrelated, because X does not directly cause Z."
342T-That... that's not what I said at ALL...
343
344Okay.. I'm going to explain "correlation", "causation", "coincidence", and "syllogism".
345
346>Correlation:
347-A and B both have property X.
348-They have property X because of C.
349-This is what you seem to understand as an "indirect relationship". I do not know this to be indirect, because A and B are both directly related because of C and property X.
350
351>Causation:
352-A affects B, and B now has property X.
353-B, because of its new property X, affects C, and C now has property Y.
354-A does affect C in this situation, because without affecting B, C would not be affected at all.
355
356>Coincidence:
357-A and B both have property X.
358-A has property X because of C.
359-B has property X because of D.
360-THIS is what I understand to be an "indirect relationship".
361
362>Syllogism:
363-All A's are B's.
364-All B's have property X.
365-Therefor, all A's have property X.
366
367Basically I'm saying that you're saying burning fossil fuels and improved sanitation have a coincidence about them; no, there is a causation.
368The burning of fossil fuels, or A, creates more energy, B, and B allows for improved sanitation, C. A (burning FF) gives B (energy) property X (there's now more of it). B, because it has property X, affects C (sanitation), giving C property Y (it's improved).
369That IS causation.
370
371Also, Pastebin sucks. You should try http://meowbin.com
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374
375amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/20 10:37
376
377@TK
378Why is being a "fossil fuel shill" worse than being a nuclear shill. Im not a fossil fuel shill, I'm a climate realist.
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381
382Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/20 14:04
383
384Climate Change or not, burning hydrocarbons in excess makes it impossible to live in urban areas without having to wear a gasmask everywhere in the name of moderately productive output. That's the best-case scenario, a coal plant will always put out toxic gas, but a nuclear plant just makes steam and a lump of waste that can be safely buried under a mountain. Coal/oil/gas are outdated and obsolete, they have been for decades.
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388amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/21 03:56
389
390@Vidkunssonn
391You are right I guess. You just proved fossil fuels are good.
392
393@TK
394Increase efficiency of cars. More efficient cars is a good thing, as it uses less gas, and pollutes less, which means the gas can be used to power more cars and other stuff. Its a win-win. The problem with nuclear is that its too high risk. Look at fukushima and chernobyl. If we can contain nuclear, and make it safe and reliable, then I'll be all for it, but until then, fossil fuels are our best energy.
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397
398Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/21 05:33
399
400The thing is fossil fuels ARE good up to the extent when a developing country has begun rapid industrialisation. Look at Britain, Japan, Brazil, when they were industrialising. It wouldn't have happened without fossil fuels. Of course, you get quickly rampant and unsustainable levels of pollution as a country moves into stage 3 of the Demographic Transition Model. This is why China is now the number one investor of alternative energy. This is why postwar Britain introduced restrictions on coal burning. It won't get better unless you change it. We will have rapidly industrialisation in south Asia, in Africa in the upcoming decades. We need more efficient, cleaner and more renewable fuels to stop this. Of course, improving the efficiency of machines is also a measure to take but there will always be a limit. 
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404Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/21 06:28
405
406Fukushima was struck by both a 9.0 earthquake and a tsunami and despite that no deaths or radiation sicknesses have been reported since it started.
407Chernobyl was intentionally built with numerous cut-corners because the USSR generally valued low costs over human lives. The most surprising thing about it's failure was that the news got past the Iron Curtain, and the US govt. hyped it to hell and back for morale reasons.
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411amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/21 17:09
412
413@T&W
414So basically we shouldnt use fossil fuels because were already industrialized, even though we sitll need energy, and renewables and nuclear have proven themselves unreliable?
415
416@TK
417While 99% of nuclear plants may be fine, the 1 event every century will make the nearest 100 miles uninhabitable for millenia. Not a risk I'd be willing to take at the moment, when we have tons of safe, plentiful, efficient energy right under our feet.
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421Hoopig					#JA6SzCa4 2017/05/21 22:05
422
423@amazingdude
424Fossil Fuels aren't a clean source of energy, that's why there is this conversation.
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428Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/22 03:44
429
430Well, I have done research in school, and there are plenty of other more natural ways to create energy such as wind turbines or geothermal energy. 
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433
434Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/22 06:57
435
436http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/five-years-after-meltdown-it-safe-live-near-fukushima
437It's like none of your opinions are grounded in reality.
438
439They've declared 70% of the affected area to be safe.
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443Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/05/22 13:26
444
445@amazingdude
446When did he say that renewable/nuclear energy is unreliable? He just said how desperately we need them right now as developed nations.
447Also, it looks like Mr. One-percent-of-the-ocean-being-trash-is-perfectly-fine suddenly became Mr. One-percent-of-nuclear-plants-will-eradicate-all-life-on-Earth.
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450
451amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/22 14:40
452
453is that u Esigma?
454https://pastebin.com/NjZQDRit
455
456@Hooping
457Yes they are. They release CO2 which acts like a natural fertillizer for plants. More CO2 is good for the earth. complex life first emerged back when CO2 was over 10,000ppm. Before CO2 emissions began, it was at 280ppm. Now it's at 400ppm. We are saving the earth. At 150ppm, plants start to die. The notion that CO2 causes global warming is false, as 95% of the greenhouse effect is water. In global warming charts, you will see that the temperature rises first, 800 years before co2 levels. Many scientists predict that we are approaching a coo period. No warming has occured in the last 20 years, yet co2 levels continue to rise. All the climate change in the history of the earth has been 100% natural, not manmade.
458 
459Over the past 150 million years, CO2 has been on a steady decline, and without us, co2 would reach dangerously low levels 2 million years from more. So basically, it's a win-win: Cheap, reliable, green energy.
460 
461"We are the salvation of life, because we reintroduced CO2 to the atmosphere that was taken out by oceanic life that sucked it up. Without CO2, plants die. And without plants, we die." --Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace
462 
463@Toucans
464Wind is unreliable, as its inconsistant and you cant store it. Geothermal only works in certain areas.
465 
466@TK
467Chernobyl is still unsafe.
468 
469@Sigma
470He never said they are unrelible, I did. He proposed an unreliable idea, and I told  him it was unreliale. Besides, 1% of the ocean being fucked up is no big deal, but 1% of plants making the nearest 100 miles a wasteland is.
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473
474Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/23 04:34
475
476Chernobyl was poorly made even by the standards of a bankrupt developing power, and then when something happened a response was delayed until it was too late to do anything. Properly made plants and response times appropriate for disaster make the the Fukushima outcome.
477And really, the first use of the technology was a super-weapon based on not controlling the reaction, one would think the USSR would have the Realpolitik to not risk losing control of an asset like that.
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480
481ZororarkMan				#W0evNddu 2017/05/23 05:04
482
483Why are we having a debate about energy? It's pointless. (Also, the plants are placed in places that people consider 'in the middle of nowhere'.)
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486
487amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/23 07:59
488
489@TK
490shit happens either way. Had people not sacrificed their lives for chernobyl, half of Europe would be uninhabitable for half a million years. Even today, the plant still needs to be contained. Even Fukushima was bad. How many nuclear plants are working correctly? Id like to see statistics.
491
492@Zororarkman
493Because fossil fuels are not the devil, like people want you to think.
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496
497Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/23 11:21
498
499https://www.nei.org/Knowledge-Center/Nuclear-Statistics/World-Statistics
500
501Of course they're not the devil; they're just inefficient at everything that doesn't involve choking everything around them with smog and soot, and somewhat okay at generating energy using materials that we're rapidly running out of.
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504
505Eta Leonid				#zTSrxt1B 2017/05/24 03:05
506
507I want to see amazingdude tossed into the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone.
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510
511amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/24 06:22
512
513@eta
514I'd also like to see you climate alarmists tossed into a barrel of burning oil
515
516@TK
517Fossil fuels are efficient, clean, and good for earth. We are releasing the trapped CO2 back into the air to be used by plants. More plants is good for earth. A world without CO2 is a world without life. CO2 is next to sunlight at the bottom of the food chain. All of this and we get shitloads of energy from it. Pollution can be managed by increasing efficiency of cars and power plants. How is using fossil fuels bad? Also, I'm not anti-nuclear, I'm just skeptical. Nuclear is our second best option.
518
519==================================================
520
521hi						#BVKVYk0d 2017/05/24 06:51
522
523killa-byte
524
525==================================================
526
527Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/05/24 09:19
528
529But there is such a thing as *too* much CO2. And while the Earth experienced a time when it's CO2 levels were at 10,000 ppm before our time, we have evolved to live in much lower levels and I don't think prolonged exposure of increased levels would be good for our health (I don't know for sure, but suffocation isn't the only danger with this).
530
531==================================================
532
533amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/24 10:26
534
535@Sigma
536LOL, we're gonna suffocate to death!! At 1% CO2. If anything, we'd go through a green revolution as the earth is transformed and ecosystems become stronger and we'll experience something like a second cambrian explosion. More CO2 = more plants. More plants = more life. More life = better earth.
537Or take out all the CO2 and kill the plants, watch as ecosystems collapse, etc.
538
539==================================================
540
541Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/24 11:15
542
543Excess CO2 doesn't make plants grow faster/better. If there was 1000% more CO2 on earth than all the plants on earth required, they'd all grow and reproduce at exactly the same rate as if there were 10% more CO2 than required.
544
545==================================================
546
547Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/24 13:43
548
549CO2 is also released as plants die and rot, so don't act as if fossil fuels are the only thing keeping the balance.
550
551==================================================
552
553Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/24 15:14
554
555Plants also consume O2 to turn sugar into H2O and CO2 the same way humans do. Even while they're alive, they release CO2 into the atmosphere.
556
557Even with the excess of those other factors, plants can only convert 6CO2 + 6H20 <--> 6O2 + C6H12O6 back and forth so much at once.
558
559==================================================
560
561Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/25 01:38
562
563There are limiting factors to plant growth. Even if there was a massive increase in CO2, limiting factors such as water, light, temperature and nutrients restrain the rate of photosynthesis to a normal level. 
564
565==================================================
566
567amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/25 04:50
568
569@Vidkunssonn
570Greenhouses amplify CO2 concentration to get plants to grow. The earth has already gotten noticably greener because of increased co2 levels. This is good for the earth, more plants ia always better for the ecosystem. The overall impact of humans on the earth has been overwhelmingly positive. We have used fossil fuels to transform our world and keep us safer from the climate, and fossil fuels are the reason you are alive and typing on a computer.
571
572@TK
573Fossil fuels are not the only reason, but they are the largest. Dead plants and other factors DO release CO2, but not as much as fossil fuels. In a way, we are helping the enviornment, as CO2 levels are dropping around the world before humans came along, and would have dipped below 150ppm, which would suffocate plants. We are the saviors of the planet, by releasing co2 that has been trapped in the crust.
574
575@T&W
576With this natural warm period, higher temperatures means more evaporation off the ocean, which means more clouds. More clouds means more rain, which means more water for plants. Another limiting facter has gone up. While nutrients might be rare in one area, they might not be in another. More CO2 will allow for more plants to grow in some areas. More is more.
577
578==================================================
579
580Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/25 05:20
581
582... So you acknowledge that plants give off CO2 as they die and that with low levels of CO2 plants die, but you don't acknowledge that this is an obvious cycle we don't need to help along?
583
584Also your entire argument thus far has been that humans cannot have more than a negligible impact on the climate, why are you now saying that our actions are the only thing keeping the climate from killing us?
585
586==================================================
587
588Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/25 05:40
589
590@amazingdude
591...you know that no matter how high the temperatures rise or how much it rains, the limiting factor of sunlight will stay not change. The rate of the flow of the transpiration stream is controlled by limiting factors as well. They will not increase. Furthermore, the amount of rain that falls will vary significantly due to global weather patterns. The most rain will fall on places where water is already a plentiful resource.
592
593Anyways, you keep talking about carbon dioxide as a gas. What do you have to say about methane, nitrous oxides and sulphur dioxide as gases? 
594
595==================================================
596
597Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/25 06:18
598
599@amazingdude
600No... A greenhouse's purpose is to keep the plants inside nice and warm. It has no other effects on the plants other than it keeps them dry on rainy days. All a greenhouse is is a transparent structure that absorbs heat. That's why the Greenhouse Effect has it's name: it's just keeping heat given off by sunlight on the earth. It does not affect the concentration of any gas in the air.
601
602Fossil fuels are not the reason I am alive today. The only overall impact that they have on me is that they power the devices that make me less bored.
603
604==================================================
605
606amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/26 06:50
607
608https://pastebin.com/TKDGXf5g
609
610@Vidkunssonn
611 
612So if a greenhouse only keeps plants warm, why do they put more co2 into the greenhouses then? Oh right, so the plants grow better. If not for fossil fuels, you probably would have died in the hospital or some disease. Fossil fuels allow us to be safe from the enviornment.
613 
614@TK
615Why shouldnt we help the cycle when helping would be good for the earth? Yes, we do impact the earth, not the climate.
616 
617@T&W
618That doesnt mean that more co2 wont be good for earth. Besides the other gasses have such a small impact on the climate its near undetectable.
619
620==================================================
621
622Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/26 08:01
623
624http://i.imgur.com/dliQRoP.png
625
626[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] TRANSCRIBE [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
627
628==================================================
629
630Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/26 08:07
631
632@amazingdude
633No.
634No.
635They don't do that.
636
637My grandmother has a greenhouse, and the plants in it are some of the greenest house plants I've ever seen, and all she does to them is water them. There's no gaseous concentration difference between inside the greenhouse and outside the greenhouse. They're green because they're kept in a warm environment with plenty of light and given plenty of water, not because of excess CO2.
638
639@Torture King
640I'm sorry, I placed a couple of arrays in the wrong places. It should work properly, now.
641
642==================================================
643
644amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/26 13:47
645
646lets go
647https://pastebin.com/T9bdpqNR
648
649@Vidkunssonn
650You dont HAVE to pump co2 into a greenhouse, but it definitely helps. You dont need fertillizer to grow grass, but it definitely helps.
651 
652If somebody removed the comments manually, they would remove ones with filter bypasses like shit.
653 
654@TK
655CO2 is not a toxic gas. It is the base of all life on earth. Actually, Earth was already breaking, and we came in and fixed it. I'm not an "oil ostrich", I am not funded by anybody. I dont suck big oil's dick. I legitimately believe climate change is natural and good. Your false data would never fool me.
656 
657You have to understand that individual scientists arent bribed. They are told that climate change is manmade, and will cherry pick data that fits their hypothesis, and since they believe in the hoax, they will believe their data. Its not that people are paid off, its that they genuinely believe the crap the media throws them. These people, except the real top heads like CEOs, legitimately believe humans cause climate change, only the top dogs are in on the hoax. They create the idea that were all gonna die if we dont follow their wishes. They (climate change alarmists) use fear mongering and false doomsday predictions to scare the public into believing it. Look at all the predictions about ice and temperature that came out false.
658 
659Real data shows there has been no warming since 1998. They go back and change the weather records to create a false sense of warming, and changed how they measure temperatures to produce warmer readings. If you take temperature in cities, its gonna be hotter than in nature because cities absorb all the heat. Its not rocket science. The top dogs use these techniques and ship it to everyone and say the earth is warming exponentially, but in reality, warming has leveled off in the last 20 years. Because of a grand solar minimum, we are expected to enter an ice age by 2050. Solar activity deflects cosmic rays, and cosmic rays have been known to affect cloud cover. More cosmic rays = more clouds. You really think that great ball of fire in the sky has less impact on global climate than burning a few gallons of dead plant material?
660 
661Warming started at the end of the little ice age, hundreds of years before fossil fuel emissions started, and if you look back in time over billions of years, you will see that co2 levels and temperature have no real correlation, and co2 has been on the decline for 150 million years and wouldve reached dangerous levels without human intervention. We got within 30ppm of the minimum co2 for plant survival during the last glacial maximum. The medieval warm period was as warm as today. Roman warm period was hotter than today. Look back at co2 levels and temperature over the past 100000 years or so, and you will find that co2 levels rise 800 years after tempetature. How can the "cause" happen after the effect? Sea levels rose hundreds of feet in the last 15,000 years, and much faster than today, and we didnt all die. Species werent all dying, earth wasnt frying up, so why should it now, under lesser warming conditions? It makes no sense. Runaway greenhouse is nonsense, as it should have happened back in the cambrian period with co2 over 10,000ppm.
662
663"Global warming" is really just part of a natural climate cycle. In the 70s, it was global cooling, but then the earth started warming, so it became global warming. After warming stopped in 1998, its now climate change. Now the climate isnt changing, its now extreme weather. These people are full of shit. Do not trust them. Trust god emperor trump to set us free from the chains of enviornmentalists and let us use the full potential of out planet to our advantge and begin a second industrial revolution. God bless trump. The enviornmentalists took advantage of this natural warm period and spread fear to gain funding. They run off of this hoax. To believe this natural warming is caused by human activity and is killing the earth is delusionalism and insanity. Spread the truth.
664
665==================================================
666
667Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/26 15:10
668
669Nitrogen does not have the same effect on plants as CO2 does. Plants need CO2 to grow. Nitrogen only helps plants grow, but like CO2, there's only so much a plant can use at once, so any excess goes unused. 
670
671==================================================
672
673Avo						#LSR5NOs7 2017/05/26 17:41
674
675Amazing dude Wow thank u for explaining it! i was believing the hoax for a while until you introduced me to the real view
676
677==================================================
678
679Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/27 02:34
680
681https://pastebin.com/kn4SX5Au
682
683Fallacy after fallacy, do you even listen to yourself?
684 
6851) If breathing it harms you, it is in fact toxic.
686 
6872) Just because you're partially made of something, doesn't make it good by itself in all situations.
688Chemistry isn't nearly as forgiving as that.
689 
6903) I never said you were funded, ostriches are associated with a fictional behavior of reacting to danger by burying their heads in sand. You are at least partially aware of how chemistry and physics work, but you're still clinging to ludicrous closed-system ideas like "it's only a little ocean, that won't affect anything" because you don't want to consider being wrong about something.
691 
6924) Just because something is natural, doesn't make it good for you. Arsenic is natural, DO NOT EAT ARSENIC.
693 
6945) Your faith in humanity is astounding, falsifying data is a serious charge you know. Do you have any proof? I ask because rational people don't cave to blatant witchhunts.
695 
6966) Which CEOs exactly would benefit from an increase in production costs? I'm all for anticorporatism, but surely you can see that they'd not want everyone to demand that they lose money?
697 
6987) You keep saying things like "real data" and "hoax" but then you don't give us any good sources, how are we to know which data is good? Do you expect us to cherrypick the 3% of climate studies agreeing with what you're saying with no sense of irony?
699 
7008) Some of the most damning GCC evidence is from soil samples taken in the arctic- far away from any major city that would absorb heat.
701 
7029) Cosmic rays are also harmlessly reflected by the magnetosphere, if at any point that stopped being the case, all electronics the world over would be fried in the best case scenario, in the worst case, the sky would flash magenta before everything dies. They're somewhat rare and not responsible for the weather.
703 
70410) We don't know how many species went extinct during those periods because prescientific-method societies were rather bad at science.  Pliny the Elder published a book saying that there was no more than 273 types of fish in the ocean and nobody called him out on it.
705 
70611) Trump is a gameshow host that whines on Twitter when Broadway makes fun of him, not a god.
707
708==================================================
709
710amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/27 04:25
711
712https://pastebin.com/S4hMtbJS
713
714@Vidkunssonn
715CO2 has the same effect as nitrogen on plants
716 
717@Avo
718Its great that I convinced you otherwise of the liberal hoax. Thank you for taking me seriously.
719 
720@TK
721So much wrong with your response. Nothing was a fallacy.
722 
7231. Breating too much of anything is toxic. If you breathe too much oxygen, you die. Is oxygen toxic then? Same with water.
724 
7252. I never said everything we are made of is good for us.
726 
7273. So your saying that i am scared of manmade climate change, so i pretend its false? wtf is this shit? I'm dead serious about my responses, I really believe them.
728 
7294. Natural doesnt mean its good for you, you are right on that, but co2 is a net good for all life.
730 
7315. Look at climategate, theres emails discussing faking data. Even the government is in on it.
732 
7336. Enviornmental groups. They fool everyone into thinking humans are the devil and the world is doomed, and we all get scared and act in their favor. Why are you anticorporate? Corporations are good. You a communist then? Communists killed 10x more than nazis did.
734 
7357. That 97% thing is misleading. 97% believe the climate is changing, but they disagree on whether its humans, its natural, or if its bad. 97% of people believe vaccine side effects are real, but it doesnt mean that all vaccines cause autism.
736 
7378. Ice core samples are reliable, except they show nothing aout the cause. Yes, they show warming and co2 levels. No, the co2 does not cause more temperature. Look at the graph. co2 comes after temperature changes.
738 
7399. Some cosmic rays pass though. Weaker sun = more cosmic rays reach earth. more rays reach earth = more get thru.
740 
74110. That exactly proves my point. We cannot prove more species are going extinct now if we dont know past extinction rates during past warm periods.
742 
74311. Trump is a good leader, no doubt. Making america great again.
744
745==================================================
746
747Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/27 06:45
748
749https://pastebin.com/cy6nt2Fk
750
751No it doesn't. Plants do not use nitrogen to turn water into sugar and oxygen.
752 
753@amazingdude
7541) He never specified that a certain amount of the thing hurts you it's toxic, he said that if you breathe it AT ALL and it hurts you, it's toxic.
755 
7562) You DID say that CO2 is the basis of all life on earth, which is the CRINGIEST thing I've ever heard about CO2. It is not the basis for OUR lives, because we don't use it. We exhale it to get rid of it. We cannot live off of CO2, which is the exact opposite of what "the basis of life" means.
757 
7583) That is EXACTLY how you appear, though. Not to one thing he has said have you made a rebuttal or have you debunked/explained it to help your side of the argument; you just plant another unsupported "fact" on your side of the field.
759 
7604) OVERALL, yes, maybe, it is good for us, but it still harms people all the time. I.E. China.
761 
7625)"Even the government is in on it" What are you, a hippy degenerate 70's kid? EVIDENCE, PLEASE, FRONT AND CENTER! Also, things labeled with the suffix "-gate" is labeled that because it is FAKE NEWS. I.E. Pizzagate.
763 
7646) EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE!
765 
7667) Refer to #6, And NO vaccine causes autism. Autism is entirely genetic. The only cause of autism is stupid parents who do stupid things while they're pregnant with the children and they come out autists.
767 
7688) Heat diffuses a lot faster than CO2 diffuses. Large CO2 emissions are dangerous because there's large masses of CO2 that isn't diffusing fast enough lying where people have to breathe. It's toxic because the CO2 levels in the breathed air are rising, lowering the O2 levels (because CO2 weighs more than O2, the CO2 moves below the O2, like water and oil) and we're stuck at the bottom with it. The arctic doesn't have that same problem because there's no large CO2 emissions in the arctic. The majority of the CO2 in the arctic soil comes from far away places, LONG after the heat gets there because, again, it diffuses MUCH slower than heat.
769 
7709) I don't even WANT to know what you're talking about here.
771 
77210) What point? How does this relate to anything you're saying?
773 
77411) Trump isn't that great of a leader. He's just better at leading than Hillary, which is really the only reason I'm happy he's in the White House.
775
776==================================================
777
778Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/27 08:07
779
780In addition to what Vidkunssonn said, I'm anti-corporatist because I'm pro-freemarket. Corporations are okay in my book as long as they still play by the same rules as any small business and don't kill competition or get special treatment from the government when they fail to adapt to the public's changing demands. Adam Smith (1723-1790) had a lot of negative things to say about corporatism, so I recommend any of his works if you're interested in more on that.
781
782==================================================
783
784Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/27 08:14
785
786REASONS WHY I DON'T AGREE WITH amazingdude
787Greenhouse gasses can negatively effect the earth to. Carbon Dioxide isn't only good, it kills the ozone layer and lets in UV rays, causing the world to warm up to unnatural temperatures. Polar ice is melting and the sea level is also rising, this is known as GLOBAL WARMING. Global warming harms plants and animals like in the colder areas, the polar bears must get to land sooner because of melting glaciers. FOSSIL FUELS ARE NOT A CLEAN SOURCE OF ENERGY. Smog caused by burning fossil fuels are also harming the environment, and people in certain areas must wear masks because of this. FOSSILS FUELS ARE NOT GOOD.
788
789I also forgot that carbon dioxide is part of acid rain, which is not good at all which is quite obvious. I'm going to make an upload about all of this! And it will explain what I believe, which is science. Who knows? Maybe global warming does not exist, but I believe it does. BTW, "Carbon dioxide is a colorless gas with a density about 60% higher than that of air that is odorless at normally encountered concentrations. Carbon dioxide consists of a carbon atom covalently double bonded to two oxygen atoms." 
790
791==================================================
792
793Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/27 08:55
794
795CO2 does not damage the ozone layer, those'd be CFCs that do that.
796
797==================================================
798
799Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/05/27 09:10
800
801The pastebin wars.
802
803==================================================
804
805Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/27 11:03
806
807Volume 2
808
809@Toucans
810Acid rain is caused by sulfur and nitrogen oxides, not CO2.
811
812==================================================
813
814amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/27 13:11
815
816https://pastebin.com/CwQ31aJY
817
818@Vidkunssonn
8191. We breathe in 400ppm of co2 every breath. That doesnt hurt us, so by this definition, co2 is non-toxic.
820 
8212. Sunlight is also the basis of life on earth. CO2 and sunlight are the basis of plant life, which is the basis for animal life. If we take all the co2 out of the air, we fucking die, because all the plants would die, and we would starve. Pretty essential for life.
822 
8233. All of my replies have been rebuttals. I watch hour long interviews with climate realists every day. I'm not scared of manmade climate change. How can i be scared after all ive said against it?
824 
8254. That gray shit is not CO2. Thats other toxins.
826 
8275. Climatic Research Unit email controversy. Most gates are actually real. Honestly, I wouldnt be surpirzed if pizzagate was real.
828 
8296. Eco-terrorism. Greenpeace, PETA, ELF, etc. All this pro enviornmentalist crap. Its anti-humanism at this point.
830 
8317. Vaccines do not cause autism, i only used that as an example of a consensus being misleading. Yes, there is a small chance of vaccines causing rashes and fatigue or mild sickness, but that doesnt mean they cause autism, just like the small chance that humans MIGHT contribute to 0.5 percent of warming in a century, but that doesnt mean humans cause all climate change. Consensus does not equal fact. 97% of scientists once thought the earth was flat. 97% of scientists once thought the sun orbits the earth. 97% of scientists once thought gravity wasnt real.
832 
8338. CO2 is non toxic, see #1.
834 
8359. Just dismissing it as fake science?
836 
83710. He said that we cannot track extinctions in the past. We cannot prove more species are going extinct now if we dont know past extinction rates during past warm periods.
838 
83911. He's a great leader, he's done a good job so far. He's trying, but cucked congress is blocking him.
840 
841@TK
842 
843Ahh, makes sense now. I thought you meant anticorporate as in the government should control everything. I agree with your stance about free market.
844 
845@Toucans
846 
847https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJWq1FeGpCw
848https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Teja5YNCo
849 
850I posted those before, but they explain very well how fossil fuels are clean energy and beneficial for humans. Smog is because their cars are inefficient. doesnt make all fossil fuels bad. You are one of those people who dont want humans to advance as a species, and want us to resort back to tribal societies to save the earth. You are anti-human. Limiting the advancement of a civilization to preserve their planet is like a computer limiting its power to preserve its components. Melting ice is due to natural warming, and it has happened before, and will continue to happen. Climate is always changing. Stop bitching about it and learn to adapt. You cant change the climate, but you can adapt to the climate. You are like a parasite of the human civilization.
851 
852@Sigma
853I like that idea :)
854
855==================================================
856
857Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/28 07:35
858
859People are listening? I thought nobody cared. SOMEONE NOTICED YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY. WWWWOOOOOOWWWWWEEEEEEE
860
861I still dont like Co2
862
863==================================================
864
865amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/28 10:54
866
867@Toucans
868Well I guess you hate life then
869
870==================================================
871
872Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/28 16:13
873
874https://pastebin.com/iv5Hu06R
875
8761) He's talking about the OTHER gases that burning coal releases, you moron.
877 
8782) CO2 is not the most important gas on the face of the planet. Plants need CO2 just as much as they need O2, H2O, and other things. Stop worshiping CO2.
879 
8803) Your "rebuttals", as you call them, are you practically saying "No it's not" to everything we say. You use no evidence to support yourself, you don't explain or describe anything.. Do you KNOW how discussions work?
881 
8824) Yes, there are other toxins, but CO2 is still entirely unhelpful in that situation.
883 
8845) You're a fucking nut. I bet you're a fan of Alex Jones.
885 
8866) That's good. Now, do the OTHER step YOU are supposed to take and GIVE THE EVIDENCE. This is an internet discussion. You're not doing a good job by giving me a list of things to Google.
887 
8887) Yes, now it's the other way around. 97% of people believe the earth is a sphere, these days, and that's dropping because people don't know how vast our human scientific discovery has become. They take a look at a single statistic or geometry equation and change their entire view-point on the earth, and it's pretty saddening and pathetic. (POINT OF INFERENCE: I whole-heartedly believe the earth is a sphere.)
889 
8908) Never said it was. Not once in that entire paragraph.
891 
8929) No, I'm dismissing it as unrelated. Stop assuming shit and actually READ what I'm saying.
893 
89410) It's unhelpful to your "point" to say "nobody knows".
895 
89611) You're a sheep.
897 
898"You are one of those people who dont want humans to advance as a species, and want us to resort back to tribal societies to save the earth."
899What the fuck is wrong with you? You don't know anything about Toucans and here you are calling him a wannabe-Neanderthal. I get trying to stress your belief, but you've gone too far. This needs to stop.
900
901==================================================
902
903amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/28 21:17
904
905@Pastebin Wars
906https://pastebin.com/CEyqtA3m
907
9081. Such as? What other gasses are there and what do they do?
909 
9102. It may not be THE most important, but its pretty damn close to it. We should rightfully celebrate co2 for the life it gives, as without it, the earth would be a dead planet.
911 
9123. Have you read my 5 paragraph essay i posted a while back? That whole thing explains my stance and refuts all your arguments.
913 
9144. Unhelpful does not equal bad.
915 
9165. I dont watch alex jones. I like to keep my sanity.
917 
9186. Your not doing a good job either by not googling them.
919 
9207. It's an oblate spheroid.
921 
9228. "It's toxic because the CO2 levels in the breathed air are rising, lowering the O2 levels"
923 
9249. So cosmic rays affecting cloud cover is completely unrelated to the climate?
925 
92610. In that case, it was helpful to say nobody knows. We cant confirm modern extinction rates are higher if we dont know past rates.
927 
92811. I'm a sheep for liking our leader? You're also a sheep for blindly following what the government tells you about climate change without questioning it.
929 
93012. I maybe went too far attacking him. I was attacking enviornmentalists, not him specifically. I apologize, toucans. Didnt mean it directly at you. Some radical enviornmentalists are equalivalent to wannabe neanderthals.
931
932==================================================
933
934Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/28 22:41
935
936https://pastebin.com/yu43PVse
937
9381) CO, Sulfer and Nitrogen Oxides, and sometimes even Mercury and other heavy metals. You should know that coal ore is not 100% carbon when we burn it. It's closer to 80%, and the rest of it IS toxic when put in gaseous form from being burned.
939 
9402) It deserves as much celebration as dirt and penicillin.
941 
9423) More unsupported theories *claps*
943 
9444) It's still pushing O2 out of the ground air higher up where we aren't. That's detrimental.
945 
9465) Thank God. I'd've been more tempted to not respond if you were.
947 
9486) If I were to Google them, 99% of the results I get would be about how GOOD those things are. I shouldn't have to Google them in the first place, you're supposed to give me the evidence that supports that they're bad, not have me go look for it on my own, because chances are I won't find it.
949 
9507) I'm willing to accept the poles are flat, not the entire planet.
951 
9528) k
953 
9549) It's irrelevant to burning coal.
955 
95610) Yes, but the other side of that coin says you also can't say it ISN'T true.
957 
95811) I don't listen to anything the government says unless it's about new laws or military related. The government's purpose is to keep us humans from killing each other, so I only pay attention when the threat of other people hurting me is related.
959
960You're a sheep for believing that Congress isn't suppressing all of his decisions because they're actually bad. Congress suppresses his ideas because they're either unconstitutional or just bad politics. He's better than Hillary because he actually has leadership experience, which Hillary does not, but the leadership of a company is not all the same as the leadership of a country.
961
962
963==================================================
964
965amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/29 13:56
966
967@Vidkunssonn
968I prefer java as well, however if everybody uses html5, then html5 is required for physics to work as uploader intended. Java is more stable IMO.
969
970@Pastebin wars
971https://pastebin.com/pnd2h2Fk
972
9731. The amount of those chemicals are small and insignificant in coal.
974 
9752. Because the very chemical that makes life possible deserves as much credit as dirt.
976 
9773. Start refuting it then.
978 
9794. 0.04% CO2 isnt gonna displace any oxygen. If anything, its gonna displace mostly nitrogen, sice air is 78% nitrogen.
980 
9816. You havent cited any sources. I've cited 5 or so videos so far, more than you. Heres another: https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/ecoterrorism
982 
9837. The earth is mostly spherical, but technically an oblate spheroid. In a sense, the poles are slightly flatter.
984 
9859. But its relavant to climate change. The whole argument is about climate change, not oil.
986 
98710. Whats more likely. Species going extinct at alarming rates, or species going extinct at same rates as past?
988 
98911. You get your info from government funded sources, you might as well just get it straight from the government. Trumps policies are not bad. Congress just hates him because hes not part of the machine
990
991==================================================
992
993Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/30 02:15
994
995https://pastebin.com/WdvhEDwk
996
997I'm getting sick of using this site. This is not the supreme pasting site there is.
998 
9991) 20% is insignificant?
1000 
10012) Exactly, but you're giving it TOO MUCH praise.
1002 
10033)
1004>"Real data shows there has been no warming since 1998."
1005According to NASA, all but one of the 16 hottest years in the last 134 years were after 2000.
1006 
1007>"You really think that great ball of fire in the sky has less impact on global climate than burning a few gallons of dead plant material?"
1008They work together.
1009CO2 is a greenhouse gas, meaning it traps heat emitted from the sun on the earth to keep it warmer.
1010 
1011>"To believe this natural warming is caused by human activity and is killing the earth is delusionalism and insanity."
1012WE are the ones putting the majority of the CO2 into the atmosphere.
1013What's delusional and insanity is to exclude our behaviors and actions from what's considered "natural". We are a part of nature, and all of our doings are natural as well. If we were aliens from another planet, THEN you could say we aren't one with nature.
1014 
1015https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
1016http://www.livescience.com/topics/global-warming
1017https://www.nrdc.org/stories/global-warming-101
1018http://www.livescience.com/59096-animated-temperature-spiral-gets-update.html
1019 
10204) It's a LOT more than 0.04% around coal plants.
1021 
10226) You used exactly one source: PragerU. PragerU is entirely conservative, meaning they are against any form of change, despite the harm keeping down the same path might bring. They also don't cite sources.
1023 
10249) I joined this conversation talking about fossil fuels.
1025 
102610) As you said, "nobody knows".
1027 
102811) "Government funded" is not the same as "Government influenced". You treat everything funded by the government as if the government directly makes them change their data to support false claims. Alex Jones is one to believe like this. I trust the government only to keep me safe from the rest of the world and the stupid people in the cities, but I seriously doubt they make all climate research companies change their data and research to suggest things that say we're all going to die.
1029
1030==================================================
1031
1032Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/30 02:43
1033
1034Are we finally done arguing about Co2 and stuff?
1035
1036==================================================
1037
1038Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/30 03:07
1039
1040That's entirely up to @amazingdude.
1041
1042==================================================
1043
1044amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/30 05:00
1045
1046@Toucans
1047not until everyone else is done. I agrue till the other gives up.
1048
1049@pastebin wars
1050Fine, I'll use meowbin. Did you create this?
1051
1052https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=9209vc3c1f
1053
10541. They exaggerate the toxins. Coal is 95% hydrocarbons, the same thing that makes up oil and gas.
1055
10562. Because it deserves praise for giving animal life to earth?
1057
10583. First off, you trust NASA, who gets its funding by scaring the public. They're no better than asking Exxon, or asking a cigarette company about lung cancer. NASA benefits from the fear.
1059
1060CO2 is not a significant greenhouse gas, and thats where the hole in their data is. Yes, we dump shitloads of CO2 into the air, but it doesnt cause warming. While yes, we technically are natural, most people exclude human activity from natural occurance. Human activity does not cause climate change.
1061
1062NASA is unreliable, as stated before. Livescience doesnt cite sources either. NRDC has committed ecoterrorism in the past.
1063
10644. So your saying that people are at risk of suffocation around coal plants? OK, it may be a little higher, maybe 1%, but thats only immediately around the plant. There wont be much of a difference further away.
1065
10666. So just because its conservative, makes it unreliable? Your sources are liberal, and want us to change everything, even what's not broken. No one source is better than another. It all depends on reliability, not being better. Have you even critically analyzed the videos?
1067
1068Sources: 
1069http://www.conservapedia.com/Global_warming (This one cites sources)
1070http://humanevents.com/2014/03/24/the-carbon-dioxide-level-is-dangerously-low/
1071https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Z5FdwWw_c
1072
10739. You wanna talk fossil fuels? Fossil fuels have transformed humanity from a tibal species into a intelligent civilization. Fossil fuels have saved billions of lives and made more billions possible. They are a cheap, plentiful, reliable energy source, that makes modern life possible. Renewables just aren't there yet. Wind and solar are weak and unreliable. Hydro is limited to only rivers and lakes, and nuclear is too high risk. I've gotten a little less harsh about nuclear once I started researching. The problem is that enviornmentalists dont want us to use fossil fuels, because they are supposedly contributing to climate change, and they are unnatural. The energy industry powers all other industries, and we need cheap, reliable, plentiful energy to power our society and advance as a species, but enviornmentalists wont let us. They're anti-human at this point. I fully support fracking.
1074
107510. Nobody knows, so why be so pessimistic about it?
1076
107711. The government has an interest in making us fear the climate. I dont know why so many people compare me to alex jones. I only watched like 3 of his videos and I was like "This dude is insane".
1078
1079==================================================
1080
1081Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/30 09:32
1082
1083@amazingdude
1084Yes, there's a Discord server dedicated to the entirety of Dan-Ball. You'll have to DM me and I'll have to give you the invite link like that.
1085Xyvyrianeth#7823
1086
1087>"I agrue till the other gives up."
1088lol or you scare the other away with your ignorance of basic science.
1089
1090And no, I did not create Meowbin. I've told you this already. I do know the creator, though. Lovely gal. She taught me the majority of what JavaScript I know.
1091She's also redoing the entire site, this time with an attempt to add accounts so we can edit pastes we upload to it, so we got that to look forward to! 
1092
1093Also, please be sure to make the paste private if it's just a block of text directed at one person in particular. I am at least glad you named it, though.
1094
1095==================================================
1096
1097amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/31 05:46
1098
1099Did you respond to my argument, or do you give up?
1100
1101==================================================
1102
1103Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/31 10:14
1104
1105@amazingdude
1106I've done neither. I get tired of arguing with people about subjects the other person hardly knows anything about. All they know is their own opinion, but as for any science of the matter, they're about as ignorant as they come. That's you in this argument. You know what scientists have researched and the data they've collected and published, but based on some of the crap you've said, you don't even understand what they're actually saying. Learn how chemistry works and I'll resume the argument.
1107
1108==================================================
1109
1110amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/31 12:56
1111
1112@Vidkunssonn
1113I've looked into the issue, and I have formed my opinions based on that, just like you looked into it and formed your opinions. I'm just as ignorant as you: You blindly trust the pro-alarmist side and never acknowledge the alternate side. I've acknowledged the alarmist side and debunked it. Send me a article, and I'll debunk it.
1114
1115Also, I've taken and passed Chemistry in high school. I know how chemistry works.
1116
1117==================================================
1118
1119Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/31 13:12
1120
1121How much of a moron do you think I am? You think I'm blindly believing everything I think is true simply because it doesn't match with your opinion. You keep assuming shit that isn't true or you know nothing about. I'm not some liberal that's closed-minded about everything I disagree with; I listen to the other side of everything I believe in and form conclusions based on evidence both sides bring forward.
1122
1123And I accept your challenge. Debunk all 15 references found here:
1124https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
1125
1126If you discredit NASA as an unreliable source simply because they're government-funded, I'm never speaking to you about this again, due to the fact you're a dumbass. 
1127
1128Everyone, If you want to stay on my good side, don't assume anything about me.
1129
1130==================================================
1131
1132COMMENT BOT				#CYDOyoro 2017/05/31 13:53
1133
1134Wow, you are all retarded. Good day and good night ;_;
1135
1136==================================================
1137
1138Hoopig					#JA6SzCa4 2017/06/01 02:17
1139
1140I like how we are arguing over climate change on a pastebin. Like a pastebin is going to change the world
1141
1142==================================================
1143
1144Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/01 09:53
1145
1146I remember how that hacking thing about the movie The Interview involved a message over pastebin. That didn't exactly change the world, but it got pretty close.
1147
1148==================================================
1149
1150amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/01 11:53
1151
1152@vidkunssonn
1153I'm still working on debunking NASA. I've gotten 7 sources debunked, gonna finish later tonight.
1154
1155==================================================
1156
1157Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#zGN4CiFF 2017/06/01 12:09
1158
1159@amazingdude
1160You do not need to debunk NASA's references. I have looked into the science, and confirmed that climate change is in fact 100% natural, and possibly beneficial for the earth.
1161
1162==================================================
1163
1164Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/01 12:41
1165
1166WTF, that isn't me...
1167
1168==================================================
1169
1170Chez					#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/02 12:58
1171
1172You can't post 3x in a row. Wtf. Even if he got haked it shouldn't have let u post
1173
1174==================================================
1175
1176Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/03 02:03
1177
1178It wasn't a hack, someone made a new account with the 's's replaced with unicode characters that only look like 's's but aren't really 's's.
1179
1180==================================================
1181
1182Fake StarTrekÐ…pock		#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/04 12:01
1183
1184Hi yall
1185
1186==================================================
1187
1188Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/05 01:10
1189
1190Once again the comments section has degenerated 
1191
1192==================================================
1193
1194Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/05 02:27
1195
1196My dick is tiny. Please make it bigger.
1197
1198==================================================
1199
1200The Muskadillo			#S7aj3ZLU 2017/06/05 02:29
1201
1202the startrekspock is a fake account. click on the name. the only post is the get rert thing.
1203
1204==================================================
1205
1206Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/05 04:38
1207
1208No its not retard
1209
1210==================================================
1211
1212amazingdud				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/05 09:28
1213
1214Why does all the fun stuff happen while im on vacation? Vidkunssonn and STS get haced/faked/whatever
1215
1216==================================================
1217
1218Fake amazingdude		#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/05 09:59
1219
1220It's really not that hard to fake someone, if you don't worry about the ID #.
1221
1222==================================================
1223
1224skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/05 09:59
1225
1226I mean, the name isn't in bold, but most people don't notice that anyway, in my experience.
1227
1228==================================================
1229
1230Fake amazÑ–ngdude		#zKjtz4RH 2017/06/05 11:26
1231
1232@Vid
1233I'm sorry for denying climate science. I was wrong all along. I'm just a retarded cuckservative who eats up what fox tells me without questioning it.
1234
1235==================================================
1236
1237amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/05 12:01
1238
1239i honestly cannot tell who's real and who's fake. 
1240
1241==================================================
1242
1243StarTrekSpock			#MSszoBWk 2017/06/05 13:36
1244
1245Copy the person's name before the "hacked accounts" started showing up and f3 to search for the names. The fake accounts have different names from the real ones. Although I can't see it, f3 can differentiate between them
1246
1247==================================================
1248
1249Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#USLP5jMW 2017/06/05 15:09
1250
1251I'm the real vidkunson!
1252
1253==================================================
1254
1255amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/08 10:03
1256
1257@vidkunssonn
1258tbh ive lost interest in debunking nasa, its just the same crap all over again. I'll post what I have, I managed to debunk 6 of the references (one was a duplicate, one I just could not understand). I know its not all of them, I just lost interest in finishing the job.
1259https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=f021h74308
1260
1261I knew you were gonna post the NASA article. Shoulda made it an exclusion. Mistakes on me, then.
1262
12631. The graphs on page 3 do not show the full picture. Graph a on page 3 only shows the last 150 years, well after warming began. It does not suggest human activity is the cause. The same with graph b, sea levels have been rising since the last glacial maximum, 15,000 years ago. Graph c and d shows greenhouse gasses, except their potency is being exaggerated in models and predictions, and the predictions do not reflect reality. Yes, sea levels are rising, and ice caps are melting, but they are not anything unusual. During the medieval warm period, there was less ice than today. There are viking burial sites currently underneath permafrost, that were not under permafrost while they were in use, from 1000-1400, the duration of the medieval warm period. Antarctic ice is growing, however, and is at record maximums. While yes, greenhouse gasses do warm the earth, the amount they do in reality is much less than they do in the predictions, because the predictions run on the assumption that CO2, CH4, etc. are stronger than they actually are. The impacts are also exaggerated. Because the earth is getting slightly warmer, there should be more land usable for farming the further north you go, because that land now isnt too hot for farming. While some species are at risk, more species will have their habitats expanded, since there are less species in colder regions. 
1264
1265Ocean acidification is not possible, as the ocean is already alkaline. To turn the ocean acid, you would need more than all the CO2 on earth into the oceans. The oceans are massive. Extreme weather events are actually down in the last 100 years. Hurricanes, tornados, fires, floods, droughts, tsunamis are all down in the past 100 years. Even if they become more common, by the use of fossil fuels (discussed earlier), we will be able to deal with them better. The future of the climate is unlikely to be much worse than observed in the past, as the climate is not changing any faster than the past. Greenhouse gas emissions will go up, but the effects of such emissions will be very small compared to natural climate change by the sun or other factors. Most of what is said in the report is true of any warm period. The earths climate is always changing, and life has and will survive. More heat waves will happen, as have in past warm periods. There will be more rainfall, as a warmer earth means more evaporation, meaning more clouds and more rainfall. Food shortages could be avoided if we adapt to a changing climate. 
1266Taking advantage of now-usable land further north to use for farmland, and higher CO2 levels would mean more plant growth. At current levels, plants are starving CO2. Species are able to adapt to changing climate, otherwise they would have gone extinct already. Current extinction levels are no higher than in the past.
1267
1268There is no such thing as "irreversible climate change." The earth was once much warmer and with much higher CO2 levels than today, and its certainly not like that anymore. Besides, an asteroid can come and fuck it all up at any time. 
1269
12702. This is true, except that the amount of CO2 required to produce a huge temperature change would be so high, we'd have to turn all the carbon on earth into CO2 to even get close to that happening.
1271
12723. *Sigh*, the hockeystick. This is an example of manipulated data. They took samples in many different areas, but only a few of them didnt show the roman and medieval warm periods. And they used only those ones to make the graph, and if you counted all the samples, you would see those warm periods on the graph. The hockeystick has been debunked numerous times in the climate realist community. The models exaggerate the effects of the greenhouse gasses. In reality, the effects of increased greenhouse gasses are minimal and not enough to cause a noticable change.
1273
12744. This source is identical to #1, which has already been debunked.
1275
12765. Like I said before, the modern temperature rise is nothing unusual in terms of the Earth's history, and has started rising well before industrialization began. So is sea level, which has been rising at a constant rate since the end of the last major glaciation. Because the earth is warming, melting ice and snow is expected. This is typical of all warming periods. The effects of all of these are being exaggerated. Climate models run on the assumption that greenhouse gasses are much stronger than they actually are, and that is where the predicted temperature spike comes in. CO2 is actually a weak greenhouse gas. More CO2 is good for the earth but I'm not gonna "worship" CO2 here. And in the solar activity graph, I definitely see a correlation, each solar activity spike causes a minor bump in the average temperature. When solar activity fell for the last time, you see a small dip in temperature. Finally, once again, cropped data. The timescale begins with us coming out of the little ice age, and the beginning of the modern warm period. Nothing unusual.
1277
12786. The warming seen this century is nothing unusual compared to the past. Because of uncertainties, you cannot reliably compare this year to the past. Perhaps changes in methods were to produce a false sense of warming. This modern warm period is caused by natural factors, not co2, as co2's strength as a greenhouse gas is not as strong as popularly believed. The rate of warming is similar to the beginning of the medieval warm period and roman warm period. The black graph at the bottom is also unreliable. It's comparing records to averages. Apples to oranges.
1279
12807. I'm gonna be honest here, I'm having a hard time trying to understand this source. I dont think I can do this one.
1281
12828. Sea ice may be going down slightly, as expected in a natural warm period. Satellite data started in 1979, during the frenzy of global cooling. We have no proof of arctic sea ice before then. The medieval warm period likely had less sea ice than now. There was less greenland ice back then, as some viking burial grounds are now covered in permafrost. It only makes sense that there was less sea ice back then, where it was warmer than today. While arctic sea ice may be lower, antarctic sea ice is at record high levels, which evens out the arctic decline. Globally, there is no decline in ice, which is to be expected, as the temperature has not risen since 1998.
1283
1284Side note, found a relly great video with all the facts and graphs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2iggJN4Etw
1285
1286==================================================
1287
1288Fjen					#yvRmGXVJ 2017/06/08 17:54
1289
1290holy poop. this guy whos probably in high school claims to be smarter than every climate scientist in the world and tried to prove them wrong. its amazing people even waste their time trying to debunk proven science. amazing dude, you are brave, yet stupid. fracking retard.
1291
1292==================================================
1293
1294amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/09 09:48
1295
1296@Fjen
1297I'm not smarter than them, they are deliberately tricking us. I see what you did there with fracking.
1298
1299@Vidkunssonn
1300Where u at boi?
1301
1302==================================================
1303
1304Fjen					#sg2MpuFj 2017/06/09 11:43
1305
1306@amazing dude
1307hahahahaha conspiritard. go run crying back to alex jones when your house is underwater in 20 years. climate change is happening. the science is settled. do not try to deny it. why would they want you to think the earth is being destroyed if it is not? trump does not care about you. trump could not give half a poop about the average man. all he cares about is the rich.
1308
1309i seriously hope you pull your head out of your butt and realize what is happening. you are going to make the earth unlivable. i beg you to watch "an inconvenient truth" and "an inconventient sequel" when it comes out. do not listen to fox news. it is all bought out and paid for corporate propaganda. denying humans climate change is like denying that smoking causes cancer. even some of your holy men in congress have agreed that climate change is real. the deniers are walking on thin ice at this point.
1310
1311==================================================
1312
1313Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/09 23:07
1314
1315He's mainly arguing that climate change is normal, natural, and good for Earth (which I completely disagree with, but I'm sure he's more than happy to reshare the links to his articles)
1316
1317==================================================
1318
1319SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/09 23:37
1320
1321Well what did I miss something about climate change I all I'm getting.
1322
1323==================================================
1324
1325amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/10 04:24
1326
1327@Fjen
1328Its not a conspiracy. Its fact. No science is ever settled. Before Copernicus, the science was settled that the sun orbits the earth. That turned out to be untrue, just like manmade climate change. Yes, climate is changing, just like it always has, and it has never destroyed the earth.
1329
1330Trump based his whole campaign on the working man, who has been left behind by politicans. Just because hes rich doesnt mean he hates us.
1331
1332Al gore is making a second alarmist propaganda bullshit fear mongering piece of crap movie? LOLOLOLOLOLOLAHAHAHAHAHAHAPLPDSLK!!! The first one has been debunked to death, and lost Al Gore all of his credibility. This movie is gonna flop and fail worse than Vidkunssonn does at arguing. Mark my words.
1333
1334Fox news is not bought out propaganda, its simply another viewpoint. Just because it doesnt align with your views doesnt mean its fake. Also, there is absolutely nothing in common between human activity and climate change vs cigarettes and cancer. In fact, more and more congressmen are coming out against the great hoax.
1335
1336All of your arguments are simply unsourced lies and fraud. Lol, calling us deniers. A better term would be skeptic, or even realist.
1337
1338==================================================
1339
1340Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/10 06:04
1341
1342https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=3308h24a0c
1343
1344
1345@amazingdude
1346I was on a cruise in the Caribbean for a week. I'm a little disappointed I didn't encounter any pirates while in International Waters, but I did at least get a beer tour from Captain Blah-Blah and got to remind myself that I hate the taste of alcohol. I also got a new deck of cards. Hadn't had a new deck in a while. That's a total of 2 from a foreign country (1st from the Virgin Islands, 2nd from the Bahamas, 3rd hopefully from Sweden).
1347
1348And honestly, I don't give a shit about the climate change argument anymore. I feel more relaxed now than I have in a long time, and starting that up again will just ruin it. I have more important things to worry myself about, like my Discord bot and learning the PG(2) script so that I could potentially mod it.
1349
1350==================================================
1351
1352Fjenn					#KuVJebpn 2017/06/10 07:23
1353
1354Sorry this is too long I cannot post it here it is pastebin.com/zMazZkM2
1355
1356@vid
1357i am glad you are not arguing with this science denier any more.
1358
1359@amazing dude
1360what you are saying is a conspiracy by definiton. you are a conspiracy theorist. at this point in time, you are as credible as moon landing deniers. wat does the oil industry have to gain by denying climate science? money. climate science is anti oil and they want you to keep burning oil. what do enviornmentalists have to gain from denying oil propaganda? saving the fucking earth.
1361 
1362i have watched your "proof" videos. the first guy worshipping fossil fuels is a puppet who receives money from oil companies to bullshit the public. the second guy spewing out nonsense about co2 is a lobbyist who refused to drink a chemical he claimed was safe. you seriously trust these frauds? ill give you an analogy: if you were injured and needed a surgery, 30 doctors said you should get it, and 1 doctor said no, would you get the surgery?
1363 
1364donald trump is also paid for by the rich. he has no interest in helping you. he hates mexicans, muslims, blacks, gays, trans, women, athiests, and pretty much everybody. he is a puppet of the rich and white supremacists sent to resegregate america and make it an all white country. he is going back in time. he is literally backwards. and you worship him.
1365 
1366al gore is a credible enviornmentalist with science to back up his claims. do you really expect him to downplay the threat of manmade climate change? if anything, "alarmism" is good, since it gets people scared and more willing to take action. and his statement about ice caps melting by 2014 was the extreme worst possible estimate. the comparison between climate change and smoking cancer is a perfect example: industry discovers science against them, try to cover it up, people find out, and expose them on their lies. this is happening to climate change denial. that is what you are: a denier. not a skeptic, not a realist. you deny science and use bought out fraud sources. i do not need sources. i am speaking truth. 100 per cent fact.
1367 
1368take your head out of your ass and come back to reality, amazing dude.
1369
1370==================================================
1371
1372SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/10 08:15
1373
1374So let me get this straight everyone here or Vidkunssonn amazingdude and Fjen are talking about climate change in Ahem powder game 2? Yeah I'm way off so someone please explain.
1375
1376thanks for the "explanation" Just bored as hell and very VERY confused as to what is happening I mean first debunking NASA then arguing about Climate Change?!? True It's none of my business but keeping up with this propaganda stunt is a circus all in itself.
1377
1378==================================================
1379
1380amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/10 11:20
1381
1382@Vidkunssonn
1383You gave up, so I won?
1384
1385@sky
1386Click 1000 posts and start reading up from the point I first say climate change is natural. Watch these alarmist bullshiters make fools out of themselves and watch me blow their arguments off the fucking earth. Its a giant shitshow.
1387
1388@Fjen
1389https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=3a15hc16c6
1390
1391@Vidkunssonn
1392
1393You gave up, so I won?
1394
1395@sky
1396
1397Click 1000 posts and start reading up from the point I first say climate change is natural. Watch these alarmist bullshiters make fools out of themselves and watch me blow their arguments off the fucking earth. Its a giant shitshow.
1398
1399@Fjen
1400
1401Your responses are full of self contradictory bullshit. You say I'm a conspiracy theorist, yet you say that the rich and powerful are fucking everyone else over for their own benefit. The idea that oil companies are covering up science. Thats more of a conspiracy. What I say is fact. You ask me for sources, yet you dont give any because you dont need to. You say I just discredit the other side because its not my belief, yet you do the same to fox news and my youtube videos. You type like you are in the second grade just parroting what your parents say. To say that I'm like a moon landing denier is retardation at its finest. I'm not denying science. I'm exposing the radical enviornmentalists bullshit, and yall just blindly follow what lord Obama tells you.
1402
1403Enviornmenalists are the enemies of the earth. They are a limiting factor of human success. They stop us from using the earth to better our species just because a couple fucking trees that dont matter are gonna die. Absolutely fucking stupid. They want us to go back to being monkeys swinging from trees because anything that betters humanity has some impact on the earth.
1404
1405My 5 videos are from a university. The first guy, Alex Epstein, is not a shill from the FF industry. He is a philosopher, and founder of the center for industrial progress. He does not receive funding from anybody. In this day and age, you cant support FFs without being called a climate change denier who hates the earth. FFs right now are our best energy source. The second guy, Patrick Moore, is the co-founder of Greenpeace, and has a degree in Ecology. This guy knows his science, and if you watch his videos, he goes in great detail about how global warming and CO2 are good for the earth, and that it is not caused by humans.
1406
1407Your surgery analogy is a bad one. It costs nothing for me to get the surgery, as I have nothing to lose by getting it. But talking about the climate, we have everything to lose by abandoning our most reliable energy source, causing billions of people to suffer, costing trillions of dollars in the end to prevent something that is 100% natural, beneficial, and might not even be stoppable. Is it really worth it?
1408
1409You've bought into the media hysteria about Trump. Congratulations. I'm not even gonna debunk this since it is borderline insanity (talk about conspiracy, lol) and its irrelevant to the climate. And I'm glad he pulled out of the Paris agreement.
1410
1411Al Gore credible my ass. He is a politican turned radical enviornmentalist by lobbyists voming 100% pure garbage paid for by the radical enviornmental industry. Alarmism is the modern day case of the boy who cried wolf. They give us a false sense of doom so much that when they make a serious claim, nobody believes them because their predictions all came out false. And you call rational people "downplaying". Are you his grandson or something? I'm hoping his 2014 prediction was not serious, as there is no way that he coulda been serious. 2025 maybe, but 2014 is insanity.
1412
1413Your cigarettes and cancer analogy is once again flawed. Cigarettes and cancer is science, human activity and global warming is not. You're not even open minded about my science. You just shut down like Hillary Clinton and call me a denier. Before you call me closed minded, I once held negative opinions about hydro and nuclear. I have since changed my views after I did research. I read Vidkunssonn's article, analyzed it, and then debunked half of its sources. And yet you call me a denier, after I explain my viewpoint and my sources. Who's the real denier here?
1414
1415Why do I need sources, and you don't? Because I dont have the same views as you? Because you have a consensus behind you, even though a consensus doesnt mean shit? You have yet to give one source. I have given 5. Your self contradictions are astounding, and your replies are as weak as your gods' science. Yeah, I have my head up my ass, by critically thinking about the issue and forming my opinion based on a variety of different viewpoints, as opposed to somebody who just worships their enviornmentalist gods and blindly follows them. Who really has their head up their ass?
1416
1417==================================================
1418
14199132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/06/10 11:31
1420
1421Whoever denies NASA is pretty dumb considering how much equipment they use to make facts about weather. It is pysically IMPOSSIBLE. DON'T DENY NASA.
1422
1423==================================================
1424
1425amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/10 12:54
1426
1427@9132
1428Are you Fjen? I never denied NASA, I debunked them. 2 different things.
1429
1430==================================================
1431
1432Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/10 14:14
1433
1434Just because someone is sick of your bit, doesn't mean that you won.
1435Also you still haven't provided anything resembling a Realpolitik profit-motive required for a conspiracy to throw that much money at a hoax. Since your entire argument hinges on the global science community being bribed, maybe you should focus on that instead of "debunking" evidence with youtube links.
1436
1437==================================================
1438
1439Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/10 14:39
1440
1441https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=fc27hf58c1
1442
1443@amazingdude
1444>You gave up, so I won?
1445You're a fucking cunt. I don't argue with cunts because it's beneath me to do so. They don't ever shut up simply because they believe they're "too right" to not talk about it, even when they're told to by literally everyone else. You've been asked like a dozen times to just stop talking because nobody wants to go through this same shit again and again and again, and you keep bringing it up. You're like a fucking flat-earther. Just get over it. Nobody cares. Your words are like sand in my eyes. This argument is as shitty as your taunts. You don't even know what I'm arguing for and you're telling me I'm shit at arguing when you're arguing with me about the wrong fucking thing. Yes, I know Global Warming and Climate Change is natural, but no, I do not believe humans do not affect it. You are a fool for believing we aren't detrimental to the planet in one way or another, but you're a fool even more so for assuming I believe we're gonna destroy it. Not even God will destroy this planet before Judgement Day. You're too into this pointless shit. You're not proving any points, you're not saving any lives; you're just making people angry and annoyed and you need to fucking stop.
1446
1447==================================================
1448
1449Fjen					#uG7ln3Ct 2017/06/10 18:36
1450
1451@amazing dude
1452you are also full of self contradicting statements. i am not going to waste my time arguing with a retard who does not believe in science and just watches alex jones all day. you can not reason with these people. you are worse than a flat earther, because unlike flat earthers, you will destroy the earth. vid just demolised your ass and blew you off the earth. see you underwater in 2020 :)
1453
1454==================================================
1455
1456Zeus					#pNoXDzXu 2017/06/10 18:45
1457
1458@Fjen
1459Who here has a bad opinion? I will strike down thee!
1460
1461==================================================
1462
1463amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/11 03:49
1464
1465@TK
1466Have you been following the discussion?
1467
1468@Vidkunssonn
1469So you dont want me to tell the truth about climate change? You dont want to argue because I'm right and you dont wanna get proven wrong. How am I like a flat earther? I dont deny science and put forth pure bullshit. I state the facts. What makes me a fool for not believing the same bullshit as you? Nothing. You're the fool who believes it. This is not pointless, I am saving lives, and I am exposing the turth.
1470
1471@Fjen
1472You're the science denier by saying we're all gonna burn up in a CO2 greenhouse. Yet you call me a science denier by saying im worse than a FLAT EARTHER? LOLWTF!!! Keep saying I'll fall off my iceberg, alarmist.
1473
1474==================================================
1475
14769132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/06/11 04:20
1477
1478Who the heck cares about global warming? Its not like it will affect our life anyway unless we live to be like 2000 years old someday.
1479
1480@amazingdude
1481Your just causing unecessary panic. Stop thinking i'm Fgen because of where I stand with NASA. I'll tell you if there is a fake 9132 ruining my image.
1482
1483==================================================
1484
1485Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/11 04:37
1486
1487Once someone has established a belief, they believe everyone who has an opposing belief is wrong. In other words, both sides think the other is full of idiots. In this situation, there isn't enough information to determine who is probably truly right without looking at the facts directly. However, if one side has a significant following compared to the other, odds are the one with the larger following is right. It's not definitely right, but probably.
1488
1489The point of this comment is to say that while amazingdude thinks the other side is the fools, he doesn't *actually know* if he's right. As far as he knows, everything that has ever been told to him is a lie (before he complains about the one-sidedness of this, I better say that everyone else also could be wrong without conducting tests themselves). Just talking about how unreasonable the other side is won't change their views, and that is what this discussion has essentially become. Though I should point out that the pro-climate side has repeatedly tried to put it down, but amazingdude keeps bringing it back to the "idiot calling" situation I mentioned above.
1490
1491@9132
14921. It will start to affect us in only a few years.
14932. The concern is partly what our *future* generations would experience. It would be pretty selfish to not care what their world would be like since our actions now decide it.
1494
1495==================================================
1496
14979132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/06/11 05:47
1498
1499@Sigma
1500You watched The Day after Tomorrow too?
1501
1502Also, I admit fully that global warming may hurt us in a few years, but what of that? If the E.M.P. ( Electro - magnetic pulse ) bomb hits us, We won't have to worry about global warming. No for me, at least, because unlike other people, I don't depend on tablets or phones. ( I'm in Arizona, so I don't care about glaciers, even though we depend on them sometimes).
1503
1504==================================================
1505
1506Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/11 10:39
1507
1508I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with this. I have the censored words in it (there's only one) fixed to not be sensed by the censor, but I can't figure out what else is wrong :/
1509https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=cc27h5a700
1510
1511Holy shit, this place has become really, really active.
1512
1513@amazingdude
1514Are you serious? I want you to shut up because you're continuing a pointless argument that won't ever be won. This will just go on until one of us dies because you're too stubborn to accept the fact that maybe nobody cares about what you think about it. You're like a flat-earther because you prioritize and practice a belief that has no effect on your life.
1515
1516"The earth is really flat."
1517So?
1518"Humans will not destroy the world with excess Carbon Dioxide emissions."
1519So?
1520
1521How is telling people that there's nothing wrong saving their lives? You're not warning them of any potential danger, you're just saying there isn't any, which doesn't help us prepare for anything. Telling a man "it won't kill you" won't help him. You're the fool because you waste your time preaching something that has no effect on the people who listen (and for assuming my beliefs for what they aren't, but I'll get over that because I'm used to people doing it).
1522Tell us something that will actually BENEFIT us knowing.
1523
1524@9132
1525Every comment has a unique "id" code in the top right corner of the box, just left of the date and time of the comments submission. Yours is "#iabR3RgQ". Mine is "#6gkHelVa". The only way that would ever change is if you clear your cookies or log in on a different device and then submit a comment.
1526
1527==================================================
1528
1529Fjen					#xO9nYD6i 2017/06/11 12:00
1530
1531thank you guys for backing me up and not falling for the retard denier amazing dude
1532and i am certain that the scientists are right about climate change. we will see who is right in 20 years amazing dude.
1533
1534@vid
1535it is too long
1536
1537==================================================
1538
1539Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/12 03:41
1540
1541@amazingdude 
1542My internet went out for about a week but I've mostly caught up since then.
1543If I'm interpreting this correctly, you think a measly increase in very conditional political power is a good enough reason to blow millions of dollars on a hoax and implied various governments and corporations are involved presumably as a way to strengthen that position. Are you aware of how silly that sounds even with the benefit of the doubt?
1544
1545Imagine if this supposed conspiracy were about Atlantis instead; all of that effort and money being pumped into convincing people that Atlantis is real so that they'll turn around and demand that their puppet masters drain the Mediterranean Sea thus giving the main players involved more influence- and all it took was an absurd amount of money invested into Caligulan propaganda and advanced pumping equipment. 
1546
1547==================================================
1548
1549amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 05:25
1550
1551https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=4e51v92e04
1552debunk
1553
1554Holy shit this board is active.
1555
1556@9132
1557Increasing gas prices, carbont taxes, increasing energy prices, laws and regulations, etc. will affect you. All those things are based on a hoax. We dont have to worry about it, even without the EMP.
1558
1559@Esigma
1560Why dont you log in? Your comment may be true, but I've done research, and I believe I am more correct than you. I do know I'm right, and a consensus doesnt prove anything. There was consensus the sun orbited the earth. There waa consensus that Relativity wasnt real. There was consensus the earth was flat. Why should I believe the wrong scenario just to agree with the consensus? Global warming has many more positive effects than negative. I would be excited about global warming.
1561
1562@Vidkunssonn
1563This argument is about spreading truth. How is it pointless? I'll keep this up until you die, I'm willing to argue for years. Global warming does have an effect on our lives. If the alarmists get their way, we get pointless regulations, price increases, laws, etc. that will have no effect and only serve to prevent a nonexistant threat. I want people to know that we do not need to take action, and that global warming is natural and good. Telling people there is nothing wrong is saying the truth. Banning FFs will take away our #1 energy source, and the billions of poor people who depend on cheap energy will suffer because their energy source will be taken away just because of a nonexistant hoax. You will BENEFIT for knowing this.
1564
1565@Fjen
1566Watch me come out right. Consensus =/= correct. Alarmists have been making false predictions for years now, and they will continue to be what they are: Hot air. Also, I'm not a denier, I'm a skeptic/realist.
1567
1568@TK
1569What are you talking about? That is not my beliefs. Are you gonna debunk the 11 "Fallacies" after Vidkunssonn lost?
1570
1571https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=9209vc3c1f
1572
1573==================================================
1574
1575Fjen					#4dNY21J8 2017/06/12 08:28
1576
1577@amazing dude
1578give up. you lost.
1579
1580==================================================
1581
1582amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 11:41
1583
1584@Fjen
1585I'll never give up. Not until these fools do.
1586
1587==================================================
1588
1589Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/12 11:52
1590
1591https://pastebin.com/FVF19CDV
1592
15931) Wait so ruining 1% of land we're not using is too high of a cost but poisoning 5% of the immediate area around our living areas isn't? How is that not a point for nuclear power over coal?
1594 
15952) Praising chemicals for purely incidental reactions is kind of cringy. I don't know maybe you're just a neopagan or something, but it's hard to take you seriously when you sound like the same people anthropomorphizing "Mother Earth" as some nurturing figure while conveniently ignore all the awful things that entity is also responsible for.
1596 
15973) NASA gets it's funding with groundbreaking discoveries like graphene and aerogel.
1598 
15994) Same percentage double standard that you used to say nuclear power wasn't worth the vastly superior yields.
1600 
16019) You need a history lesson or seven, because fossil fuels didn't come into major use until the middle of the Industrial Revolution and there were plenty of civilized societies before that point. The early United States, for instance, and basically all of Europe and Asia- there were some tribal societies in the far reaches of the world, but that's still true today as even the Sentinelese remain uncontacted.
1602 
160310) We've discovered a lot of pharmaceuticals from now endangered plants and animals, each one that goes extinct cuts into the bottom line of how cheaply our species can make medicine.
1604 
160511) Governments in general have more interest in maintaining the status quo than rocking the boat. If they change the political climate too much it could cost them the conditions that keep them in office, an autocracy wouldn't have as much problems with the sort of propaganda you're suggesting but a democratic republic has to at least make a show of caving to the public's demands, which gets prohibitively expensive after a while if the public keeps demanding that thing. It's easier to just grab power in one of the usual ways like starting a popular war, stopping an unpopular war, slightly lowering taxes, or slightly increasing the benefits of taxes.
1606 
1607It's like a Prisoner's Dilemma, except there a few hundred Prisoners and they all have different conditions to get freedom.
1608
1609==================================================
1610
1611Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/12 13:19
1612
1613@uhmeighzheengdude
1614You're still on about it?
1615Just stop. I don't care what you think about it. Your opinion about it does not affect how I go about living my life. You're also still stuck in the mindset that I give in to this "hoax" you keep talking about. Stop assuming shit and actually read what I type for you.
1616
1617>I believe I am more correct than you.
1618Okay, you arrogant fuck.
1619
1620==================================================
1621
1622amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 15:27
1623
1624@TK
1625You're still quite out of touch with the argument.
1626
16271. What are you saying here? You seem to overestimate how dangerous coal is.
1628
16292. Without CO2, everything dies. It deserves the praise, same with oxygen, sunlight, fossil fuel, etc.
1630
16313. Source? It's funding all this alarmist crap, it's in their best interest everyone is afraid of cooking to death in the atmosphere.
1632
16334. A nuclear explosion can make hundreds of miles uninhabitable. A coal plant only makes the air have slightly more CO2 within a few hundred feet of the plant.
1634
16359. Those primitave societies were way less advanced before fossil fuels. The modern societies without fossil fuels remain tribal and unadvanced.
1636
163710. We also have alot from non endangered plants, not to mention artificial drugs. If a species is really needed we could save it using greenhouses or zoos.
1638
163911. wut. Are you suggesting the climate alarmist propaganda is unfeasible? Obviously not, because it is happening.
1640
1641@Vidkunssonn
1642I do read what you type. If you can prove to me that the theory that man causes climate change is more feasible than my view than i will accept the most plausible explanation.
1643
1644==================================================
1645
1646Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/12 15:36
1647
1648@uhmeighzheengdude
1649>I do read what you type.
1650Uh huh.
1651"Just stop. I don't care what you think about it."
1652
1653==================================================
1654
1655Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/12 17:12
1656
16571) You were the one who made that 5% figure.
1658
16592) Neopaganism aside, it's just a molecule that happened to be in abundance when plants first evolved. If sulfuric acid had been more common back then the proto-plants probably would have used that.
1660
16613) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies They're just geeks, not politicians. All of NASA's funding comes from the government, which you've already stated is "in on it", if their paycheck is guaranteed, why would they bother selling a hoax to the public instead of working on important stuff?
1662
16634) Meltdowns don't involve explosions, it's literally just when the fuel gets too hot and melts through it's containment.
1664
16659) I'm pretty sure it was telegraphs that did the most for general advancement for that era, combustion was nice but it didn't facilitate any research on it's own like letting people talk in near-real-time from opposite ends of the country.
1666
166710) Artificial drugs are made by studying the effects of natural drugs and then distilling them. There is literally nothing the pharmaceutical industry that wasn't inspired by the defenses of real plants and animals.
1668
166911) Nice rebuttal. Like wow I've never been so convinced of anything in my life.
1670
1671==================================================
1672
1673amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 18:49
1674
1675@TK
1676
16771. That was about the impurites in coal, not destroyed land.
1678
16792. Either way, it gives life to us today.
1680
16813. If they come out and say climate change is not manmade, they will lose their funding. It's part of their contract.
1682
16834. Chernobyl much? I've researched, and you were right about nuclear not being so dangerous. I do think it should be looked into, but until then, fossil fuels are the best option.
1684
16859. Fossil fuels made quick transport possible, which is necessary for a modern day society, whether its cars, planes, or busses.
1686
168710. So lets study plants we have alot of instead of plants with only 3 specimen left.
1688
168911. Finally convined someone partially
1690
1691@Vidkunssonn
1692https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfo_CDjFwx28cPiFVO9iKIxbrutD_5FtRHThWg2za8Ba-uw3Q/viewform
1693
1694==================================================
1695
1696Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/13 01:25
1697
1698>If they come out and say climate change is not manmade, they will lose their funding. It's part of their contract.
1699Oh my God, you ARE a dumbass.
1700
1701==================================================
1702
1703SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/13 03:02
1704
1705Are you serious right now we're still going on with this THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO DISCUSS I mean really it's idiotic to talk about something that has already been talked about solved It's
1706
1707==================================================
1708
1709amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/13 04:12
1710
1711@Sky
1712Nothing is ever settled. If somebody can prove that earth is banana shaped and provide evidence and explain how it is more plausible than the earth being an oblate spheroid, then what would happen? Surely, the idea of an oblate spheroid earth is settled science, right? Same with climate change.
1713
1714@Vidkunssonn
1715You're the dumbass
1716
1717==================================================
1718
1719hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/13 05:37
1720
1721Climate change is natural, but we're speeding it up ALOT. If you look at the average temperature for the last 20 thousand years, you can clearly notice that it speeds up alot once you hit the point where fossil fuels are heavily used. And, we're starting to run out of fossil fuels. Oh, and the chernobyl exclusion zone has an area of 1,004 square miles. The meltdown occurred because of a flawed reactor design operated with inadequately trained workers.
1722
1723==================================================
1724
1725Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/13 07:29
1726
1727@amazingdude
1728"Your comment may be true [ . . . ] I do know I'm right"
1729But you don't unless you've seen it for yourself and have enough evidence to make a reasonable unbiased conclusion. Multiple times you talk about events that have changed our entire perspective of the universe including possibilities of events that could change it (such as finding out the Earth is banana-shaped), so you understand that we don't truly know anything because it all could be found false at any moment. For example, how do you know for sure that *your* sources aren't manipulated in any way? Of course, if you have seen proof for yourself, conducted tests, etc., then I retract my statements. I don't know what you do in your free time.
1730
1731"a consensus doesn't prove anything"
1732Indeed. That's why I said it is *more likely* to be true because, on average, people have reasonable beliefs and aren't stupid. If you are right, then we all have no choice but to believe you and I, personally, would be perfectly fine with that because I always welcome new ideas to get as close to the truth as possible. Your beliefs are your beliefs and mine are mine, and I will respect them if they are what you truly believe (as in, if anyone says things with the intent to bring harm, I would try to stop that).
1733
1734==================================================
1735
1736amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/13 08:04
1737
1738@Hotdogeater
1739Wrong. 11,000 years ago there was a very sharp warming spike of 10*C. Talk about climate change! Nothing within the last 100 years is even visible. And we aren't even close to running out of fossil fuel.
1740https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/20kyr_fig1.jpg
1741
1742@Esigma
1743Why do you never log in?
1744
1745I saw it with my own eyes. On fox news. They brought in a scientist and an alarmist and the scientist won, hands down. How do YOU know that your sources arent bought out fraud? Nobodys source is reliable. I have analyzed data, reviewed sources, and came to my conclusion. Your beliefs are wrong and need to be changed to mine, which are correct.
1746
1747==================================================
1748
1749SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/13 08:26
1750
1751All right. Well I'm just saying can't one of you set up a chat room and go over this or skype call or something? This is really not the place for this propaganda.
1752
1753==================================================
1754
1755hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/13 09:07
1756
1757If you look to the next 100 years, you would see a spike even bigger and steeper than that one 11000 years ago. Also, that spike was after a dip in global temperature, which was hardly recorded in Antartica. Oh and btw, why are you trying to force people to change to your beliefs. Nobodys beliefs need to change.
1758
1759==================================================
1760
1761Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/06/13 10:11
1762
1763@amazingdude
1764I will say only this. If you truly believe that climate change is solely beneficial and not at all problematic, and you're not just some troll that enjoys giggling when you get a reaction out of people on the internet, then fine, you may go against the better judgment of the vast majority of experts in the field of climate science and claim that global warming is nonexistent, or universally beneficial, or whatever other beliefs you may be smugly holding to your chest. But just know that the overwhelming evidence points out that you are, in fact, wrong. And I suggest you take a good wide look at all the peer-reviewed articles publicly available to you, and heed the findings of the many people that are much more intelligent than you and have spent much more time giving thought and research to this now well-defined phenomenon. But if you still refuse to listen to reason, then fine, continue to giggle at the reaction and comments you have elicited, but the rest of us would do well to look at the "Comments code of conduct" and ignore your inflammatory comments; for the die has been cast and the votes have been tallied: the winner of this argument is very clearly those who know climate change is, in fact, a significant problem to the future of this Earth. You have every right to sit in your isolated box and cover your ears, but as for the rest of the world, we progress without you.
1765
1766==================================================
1767
1768Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/13 10:52
1769
1770@amazingdude
1771I'm a dumbass because I've not convinced myself that the government pays companies to tell lies to the masses? Do not talk to me again about this.
1772
1773==================================================
1774
1775amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/13 11:44
1776
1777@sky
1778lol making a video. good luck. post a link when your done. I'm not the one spewing propaganda, everyone else is.
1779
1780@Hotdogeater
1781Either way, the climate changed fast. If you think climate is gonna change that much, you are insane.
1782
1783@poofle
1784I've read many articles from both sides, and have concluded that global warming is natural and beneficial. All the "evidence" for manmade global warming is fake, incorrect, misleading, and unreliable. If humanity acts upon a false assumption, we'd have wasted all this time and energy for no gain. Trump was right to pull out of the agreement.
1785
1786@Vidkunssonn
1787Yeah, you are. You backed out of the argument. Once I defeat the rest, I'll have won the debate.
1788
1789==================================================
1790
1791Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/13 13:12
1792
1793@amazingdude
1794Do you even realize how full of shit you are? Telling people that NASA's evidence is fake and unreliable simply because the government gives them the money they use to do the experiments and collect the evidence? Do you realize how much of a paranoid degenerate you're making yourself seem like?
1795
1796>Once I defeat the rest
1797You've defeated nobody. Just because I got tired of your shit doesn't mean you defeated me.
1798>You backed out of the argument
1799I quit fueling your stupidity. I do my best to not argue with idiots and hypocrites over things they prove time and again to not fully understand. The only "evidence" you take into account when forming your opinions is the evidence that wasn't funded by the government because you're CONVINCED that the government forces EVERY company that does climate research that they fund to lie about the evidence they find. Do you realize how moronic that sounds?
1800
1801You tell me you don't like Alex Jones, but everything you say suggests you think exactly like him.
1802"Can't trust the government."
1803"The government pays these companies to lie."
1804"The government is out to get us, just you wait!"
1805That' exactly what you sound like.
1806
1807==================================================
1808
1809Reztak's				#FLVo5wE6 2017/06/13 13:22
1810
1811I never knew that this thing existed, And I regret it right now.
1812
1813==================================================
1814
1815Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/13 13:52
1816
1817To be honest, I'm partly in this because it makes the board super active. :D
1818
1819@amazingdude
1820What sources? I've spoken on the subject like twice and neither time have I cited anything because they were analytical on this debate, and didn't need sources.
1821And even if I did, I still just told you that I would have no idea if they were actually true. Don't act in self-defense if I'm not attacking you.
1822Also, you basically just said "Nobodys source is reliable. I have [ . . . ] reviewed sources [ . . . ] [My beliefs] are correct." You can't contradict yourself like that and still remain a credible member of the anti-climate change side. If you can agree without disagreeing, or disagree without agreeing, then your argument makes logical sense and I can think of you as someone with a valid argument for their side.
1823And I want to point out that Fox News is a source. Ergo, you do not know if it is true or how true it is, even if they were right about everything since it was started. And I haven't logged in because I'm lazy and haven't felt the need to.
1824
1825@Greywolf
1826You seriously don't think you're fueling him right now?
1827
1828==================================================
1829
1830Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/13 13:56
1831
1832https://pastebin.com/f5wvyrDx
1833
18349) Whatever, it's obsolete now.
1835 
183610) Not all organisms are created equal, imagine a world where Penicillium went extinct because the Romans discovered it's properties early and abused them until it didn't exist anymore. It sounds somewhat ridiculous but that's exactly what happened to Silphium.
1837 
183811) That was sarcasm. Circular reasoning like "It's happening because it's feasible because it's happening" isn't going to convince anyone.
1839
1840==================================================
1841
1842hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/14 04:25
1843
1844That spike roughly 11,000 years ago was after a sudden and still mostly unexplained drop in temperature around 1300 years prior. Also, if we dont do anything about the rate that the temperature is rising, it will reach 10C above the 1960-1990 average around 2130. Also, CO2 is not beneficial to us other than the fact that it is required for photosynthesis. At 10% concentrations in the air, it can cause convulsions, coma, and death. Not exactly fun.
1845
1846==================================================
1847
1848amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/14 07:00
1849
1850@Vidkunssonn
1851You say that like I'm a conspiracy theorist. I'm really not. I'm just skeptical of the mainstream belief.
1852
1853@Esigma
1854How did I contradict myself? I read my arguments carefully before I post them and check for self contradictions.
1855
1856@TK
1857Silphium was bound to go extinct already. It was retricted to a narrow area that was turning to desert. Even then, its uses have been replicated using modern drugs. We dont need it anymore. Yeah, its sad things go extinct, but shit happens.
1858
1859@Hotdogeater
1860You're a typical alarmist I see. At least you're sane. The temperature has flatlined since 1998. The medieval warm period was warmer than today, and the temperature rose at similar rates to today. Your predictions are simply not true. Besides, there isnt enough carbon on earth to bring CO2 to 10%. Higher CO2 levels are indirectly beneficial to us. More CO2 = more plants. More plants = more food. The earth has gotten noticbly greener due to increased CO2 emissions, combined with a natural warming in the climate, providing relief to many plants and animals after coming out of the little ice age.
1861
1862==================================================
1863
1864Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/14 07:28
1865
1866https://pastebin.com/KnBGgRZF
1867
1868Let's try this again:
1869 
18701) Yes, impurities like CO, a gas that can kill a human being in three minutes provided it takes up 1% of the air. ~5% of it constantly emitted in close proximity to population centers.
1871 
18723) They already did the work though. Even if there were some nondisclosure agreement, those geeks've got no reason to keep harping on it unless they deemed GCC just important as robots and water purifiers.
1873 
1874I think you missed the point of the Silphium example. I'm saying if other useful plants go extinct before we find out what their properties are, it represents a net loss in human potential. You can't replicate the effects of a natural drug if you don't know how the drug works- let alone that it existed in the place.
1875
1876==================================================
1877
1878Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/14 12:00
1879
1880@amazingdude
1881You say that nobody's sources, including your own, are reliable enough to be considered factual. But then you say that you reached conclusions based on sources that you reviewed (not totally, but clearly it took up a large enough chunk that you felt you had to mention it), and because of those conclusions you say that my beliefs are wrong while yours are right. Based on the logic of the first sentence, how can you be so sure that your sources are correct?
1882If this isn't a contradiction, please explain.
1883
1884@TK
1885I got nothing.
1886
1887==================================================
1888
1889Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/14 13:39
1890
1891@amazingdude
1892I said it because you sound like a nut not so different from Alex Jones.
1893
1894==================================================
1895
1896hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/15 06:01
1897
1898Yeah, sure, because the last few years being the warmest on record is definitely a flatline. (sarcasm, which you seem to have an inability to detect)
1899Also, CO2 only has to be at 1% in the atmosphere to cause mild respiratory stimulation.
1900
1901The medieval warm period was a temperature anomaly of +0.11C, while the 2004 temperature anomaly was +0.46C. It could have been caused by changes to ocean circulation, which are very capable of causing short term climate change. Globally, it fell below todays average global temperature, but it was warmer than todays average global temperature in some regions.
1902
1903==================================================
1904
1905amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/15 06:07
1906
1907@TK
19081. People havent been dying of CO by just walking outside. It is insignificant as a byproduct of coal.
1909
19102. We dont need plants to create drugs. We can research the effects of chemicals, and apply those chemicals to cure the illness.
1911
19123. AGW is deemed just as important to them. Thats how they get their funding.
1913
1914@Esigma
1915Your sources are scientifically inaccurate. Mine are not.
1916
1917@Vidkunssonn
1918You dont sound any better, running around screaming the ice is melting and were gonna flood and burn to death. Calm down. Climate change is good.
1919
1920==================================================
1921
1922Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/15 06:47
1923
1924@amazingdude
1925If climate change is beneficial to humanity, what happens to the people in Bangladesh? The people living on Pacific islands? The people in sub-Saharan Africa? What happened to sea level rise and flooding?
1926
1927==================================================
1928
1929hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/15 07:08
1930
1931What about the maldives? They're gonna be gone in probably a decade or two
1932
1933==================================================
1934
1935Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/15 08:09
1936
19371) Tell that to China, where everyone either lives in a rural area or is forced by the hydrocarbon-based smog to constantly wear a mask while outside.
1938
19392) I most cases, plants are where we get the chemicals to study. Inorganic chemistry isn't nearly as diverse as organic chemistry is, so there's more and faster possible discoveries with the latter.
1940
19413) I'm still waiting on that Realpolitik explanation, preferably one that doesn't boil down to "It's obviously happening because it's happening".
1942
1943==================================================
1944
1945Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/15 13:19
1946
1947@amazingdude
1948But how do you *know* your sources are scientifically accurate? You've said several times that a generally-accepted fact of the universe could change all of a sudden based on new evidence.
1949
1950==================================================
1951
1952amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/15 13:21
1953
1954@T&W, hotdogeater
1955Sea levels have been rising at the same rate they have for the past 5000 years. Sea levels rose even faster once the north american and eurasian ice sheets melted off 15,000 years ago. While some areas of the world may be getting too hot, like Africa and south Asia, a much larger area is becoming more habitable, like siberia and Canada. You know why the US has 300 million people while canada only has 36 million? Most of Canada is too cold. Why is siberia virtually uninhabited? It's too cold. Warming would be great for those regions. Worst case scenario we relocate people from Africa and south Asia into now-habitable areas further north. More land will become habitable due to climate change than uninhabitable.
1956
1957@TK
19581. The vast majority of Chinese urban population does not need an air mask. Only in the most extreme areas on heavy days do people need masks. This is an example of media manipulation.
1959
19602. You seem to be exaggerating the extinction rate. Extinction rates right now are the same they have been for thousands of years. While it may appear that everything seems to be dying, they always have been, and always will. It's nature.
1961
19623. That's just how they get their funding. Its all there is to it.
1963
1964==================================================
1965
1966Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/15 13:23
1967
1968@amazingdude
1969You clearly haven't read a single word I've typed.
1970https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=fc27hf58c1
1971
1972"You are a fool for believing we aren't detrimental to the planet in one way or another, but you're a fool even more so for assuming I believe we're gonna destroy it. Not even God will destroy this planet before Judgement Day."
1973Learn to fucking read.
1974
1975==================================================
1976
1977Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/15 16:37
1978
1979@amazingdude
1980No, media manipulation does not come into play in this. China has a serious problem with land, air and water pollution. Any large, industrialising country does. Saying that they even need to wear a mask itself is a marker suggesting how bad the problem can be.
1981
1982Firstly, graph please??? You realise that the sea level does not increase evenly everywhere. Isostatic realignment, thermal expansion of water and the rate of erosion all come into play. The sea level may not be physically rising, the land may be 'retreating' instead. Siberia will not be 'colonised'; your suggestion is economically, socially, physically and geographically unfeasible. Areas in sub-Saharan Africa will not be ruined by rampant warming, but by unpredictable rainfall and drought, disrupting agriculture and the economy. Bangladesh has a problem not just with the sea, but with increased river discharge. The world is complex. You can't just 'take a piece' and compensate for it somewhere else. 
1983
1984==================================================
1985
1986Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/15 18:02
1987
1988https://pastebin.com/479WmuEU
1989
19901) Covered by T&W
1991 
19922) Didn't we already cover that we have no way of knowing that? Population science is only recently been conducted on the wild, all the data we have for it is what was collected after the invention of DDT.
1993 
19943) No. Circular reasoning is never an acceptable answer.
1995 
1996Do you not realize what is implied by the existence of a conspiracy? It means that 2 or more people with sufficient resources are cynical enough to believe that a Machiavellian approach to internal politics is the only logical way for a nation to prosper.
1997 
1998Machiavellianism is a subsection of the Realist political philosophy, which itself says that nations do whatever they want so long as nothing stops them. This opposed to the Liberalist, Radicalist, and Constructivist philosophies- the ideas that nations engage in diplomacy because the people don't like war, that the upper classes do everything that they do to oppress the lower classes, and that nations get their agendas from the head of state's agendas so any behavior will seem inconsistent between through the generations.
1999 
2000Anyway, that's a very brief summary of how international politics work. Realist philosophy in particular is nothing if not pragmatic, so this mysterious GCC conspiracy needs to have rational reasons for going to so much effort- it's not the sort of thing people engage in for giggles, if the project starts costing more than what they're getting out of it then an actual conspiracy would drop the tactic like a hot iron and try something else. You've been suggesting that people sorting their trash by material and the nation's industries being crippled by pointlessly increased spending is a good reason to blow everything they have. Give a good reason why, you've had 3 weeks to do so.
2001
2002==================================================
2003
2004herecomesmichael		#qVSCeJzD 2017/06/17 00:49
2005
2006What's with this argument with @amazingdude? I can't be bothered to read the whole thing, because it seems to go on and on forever.
2007
2008==================================================
2009
2010Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/17 04:48
2011
2012He showed up about 3 weeks ago claiming the coal and oil industries were being unfairly persecuted and that climate change was a hoax/not manmade/somehow beneficial. He didn't talk very much before but seemed fairly intelligent for his age in previous discussions, I'd still say that he's fairly intelligent but might have issues with critical thinking and/or acceptable risk assessment- both of which are perfectly normal for someone younger than 20.
2013
2014==================================================
2015
2016amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/17 06:08
2017
2018@Vidkunssonn
2019I did read it and already responded to that post
2020
2021@T&W
2022China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media. Lol, your rising sea level analogy broke down and you think the land breaks off like ice bergs and rots away? Flooding land to the sea? LOL!!! Colonizing Siberia is very practical. We colonized the Americas, Australia, many islands, and parts of Asia and Africa. Damn right we can colonize siberia.
2023
2024@TK
2025I think we should bring back DDT, it will help with insect problems. The enviornment will recover much faster than you think. The reason it failed was because it was banned before it could exterminate everything, so it all came back. Yeah, we have no way of knowing, so why be so pessimistic about it, saying we're killing everything? I come here every few months. 
2026
2027I was more active 3-4 years ago. Yall should check out the powder toy, its much better (and not HTML5). We've been arguing for a month now. Also, I'm 25.
2028
2029@Herecomesmichael
2030Read it. It will change your whole perspective on climate change.
2031
2032==================================================
2033
2034Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/17 06:31
2035
2036@amazingdude
2037I live in China. I have travelled all over China. China has a serious problem with pollution. End of.
2038
2039Land does indeed break off cliffs by waves and storm action. This material is deposited and dispersed in other places along the coast. Of course, if you had any understanding of coastal and geological processes, you'd know exactly what I am talking about. Mudflows, rockslides, rotational slip. Yes, land literally breaks off the cliff and is washed away during rotational slipping.
2040
2041Are you actually serious about Siberia??? Are you really going to persuade all 200 million people living in the region of the Ganges-Brahmaputra Delta to emigrate to some remote place in Russia? Do you even think the Russians would consider accepting these people? How much would it cost to basically build a whole new country up in Siberia to facilitate 200 million people. We have standards now. Colonists in the Americas and Africa had a completely different set of objectives and standards. If you think sending 200 million people to Siberia is even remotely feasible, I cannot take you seriously anymore. 
2042
2043==================================================
2044
2045Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/17 07:11
2046
2047@amazingdude
2048Just because you responded doesn't mean you actually read what I said and comprehended it completely. I've clearly said that I don't think humans will destroy the world, and you tell me that I'm "running around screaming the ice is melting and were gonna flood and burn to death." NOT ONE PERSON in this discussion is doing that.
2049
2050>Colonizing Siberia is very practical. We colonized the Americas, Australia, many islands, and parts of Asia and Africa.
2051The Americas, Australia, and parts of Asia and Africa aren't as fucking cold as Siberia is. The reason 13.1 million square kilometres has only 40 million people is because most of it is too damn cold and dangerous to inhabit. Canada is the same way: 90% of the population lives on 12% of the land because of how damn cold the other 88% of it is, and the people that DO live in that 88% are some of the toughest people on this planet.
2052
2053==================================================
2054
2055amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/17 08:29
2056
2057@T&W
2058Yes, land breaks away slowly. How would human activity affect that?
2059
2060@T&W and Vidkunssonn
2061Yes, I'm serious about colonizing Siberia. Maybe not Siberia, but there's lots of still habitable non-overcrowded areas that aren't arctic wasteland. We should relocate people who are in flood zones to less-floody areas. Why should we fight nature? We cant change the global climate.
2062
2063==================================================
2064
2065Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/17 17:24
2066
2067>We cant change the global climate.
2068Your entire argument has been that we're benefiting the planet by adding more CO2 to the air. That statement goes against EVERYTHING you've said up to this point.
2069
2070==================================================
2071
2072amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/17 18:30
2073
2074@Vidkunssonn
2075Adding CO2 to the air is not changing the climate. It's more like a fertillizer.
2076
2077==================================================
2078
2079Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/17 19:49
2080
2081https://pastebin.com/nSFf2WUu
2082
2083You want to use DDT to exterminate everything? You realize exterminating *everything* was why that stuff was banned in the first place? We were poisoning our crops so that pests would die after eating it, and true in the short term that was a boon for our food production. But the history you might have skipped over was that DDT is both hydrophobic and lipophilic and doesn't dissolve in water like most pesticides while readily collecting in the fat tissue of animals. Once applied it leaches into the soil and then collects as sediment in rivers, inflicting cancer on anything that comes into contact with it until ~15 years later when the toxin finally reaches the end of it's half-life.
2084
2085==================================================
2086
2087Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/17 22:41
2088
2089@Amazingdude
2090Land does not break away slowly. The land can retreat as fast as 1-2 metres a year in some places. Downdrift sediment starvation caused by man-made barriers or activities increases the vulnerability of cliff faces to erosion, particularly in areas where the shore is comprised primarily of unconsolidated material. Humans building on and closer to the cliff adds additional weight, encouraging slip planes to form. The paving of roads and surfaces hinders the even drainage of the ground, which means water is absorbed unevenly by the soil. This weighs areas of the cliff down and acts as a lubricant, encouraging slippage.
2091
2092How do you plan to colonise barren and uninhabitable areas? You literally need to build everything that people need, from scratch. Will any country's government be willing to accept millions of people from halfway across the globe? How will you convince hundreds of millions of people to abandon their homes, their country and their way of life? How are you going to move them all? What you plan is impossible. 
2093
2094==================================================
2095
2096amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/18 06:40
2097
2098@TK
2099Again, exaggerated risks. The benefits of DDT outweigh the risks. DDT is harmless to humans, but it kills insects that eat our crops. Why not use it?
2100
2101@T&W
2102The rate humans are causing land to retreat is comparable to the impact on global climate: Almost unmeasurable. Expanding urban areas that are surrounded by empty space. That way, you have something to build off of. If people dont move, wait until they start flooding. Instead of fighting nature, we should adapt to it.
2103
2104==================================================
2105
2106Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/18 09:53
2107
2108https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane#Human_health
2109"Harmless"
2110
2111==================================================
2112
2113amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/18 10:16
2114
2115@TK
2116Of course bathing in DDT isnt gonna be good for you, but a little bit in the food is no harm.
2117
2118==================================================
2119
2120Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/18 10:56
2121
2122Except the part where all those little bits build up in your fat and give you cancer. Mountains are made of the smallest pebbles.
2123
2124==================================================
2125
2126tauss					#AHnQiTFf 2017/06/18 11:45
2127
2128Fascinating argument
2129
2130==================================================
2131
2132amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/18 13:11
2133
2134@TK
2135Thats only with significant exposure
2136
2137==================================================
2138
2139Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/18 21:03
2140
2141@amazingdude
2142Bio-accumulation, anyone? Human activity is causing the land to retreat in places. Slight retreat will build up over the decades and centuries. This must be rectified. For you colonisation plan, let's do this step by step.
2143
21441. Build outwards from existing areas to accommodate more people. Widen roads and railways, infrastructure, sewage, clean water. Massive disruption to current settlements and day-to-day operations, construction takes years, massive economic cost on the host country.
2145
21462. Convince the host country(ies) to accept 150 million Bangladeshis. People from a completely different culture, completely different language and way of life. Convince them to provide adequate healthcare, services and education for the population of a still-developing country. Again, massive economic disruption, with social problems thrown into the mix.
2147
21483. Convince the Bangladeshis to move halfway across the world to some random remote place, destroying their communities, businesses, culture and way of life, instead of trying to solve the flooding problem back home.
2149
21504. Actually find the money and the transport to move 150 million people and their possessions halfway across the world. You will need to at least subsidise this cost, especially if they are poor and unwilling to move.
2151
2152This speaks for itself. I'm not sure why I even wrote this considering how flawed your plan is. 
2153
2154==================================================
2155
2156Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/19 01:35
2157
2158You mean like the significant exposure of eating contaminated food at every meal? Maybe you're just underestimating how often people need to eat and/or how much pesticides would need to be used to eradicate a farm pest. I'll reiterate, you seem reasonably intelligent, but you can't seem to back it up with the critical thinking and risk-assessment abilities necessary to link all the things you're aware of into sensible plans that would work in complex environments.
2159
2160==================================================
2161
2162amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/19 04:00
2163
2164@T&W
2165Human activity does not cause land retreat. That is honestly the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It is quite difficult, yes, but would trying to fight the climate be easier? Should we just leave them to die instead? Should we put a shade in front of the earth to block the sun? Should we do your plan try to restrict fossil fuel use, even though it does not affect the climate? That is much more unfeasible than moving millions of people. Come up with a better idea to fight natural climate change.
2166
2167@TK
2168Yes, we are eating the toxins, then we shit it out the next day before it does any harm. What goes in comes back out. If you eat pure DDT, yes, its dangerous, but a bit in your food is no threat.
2169
2170==================================================
2171
2172Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/19 08:21
2173
2174That's probably what the Romans said about using lead as a wine sweetener.
2175
2176==================================================
2177
2178Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/19 11:33
2179
2180@amazingdude
2181No, you don't just simply digest and dispose of DDT after you consume it. It stores up in your body fat and very slowly breaks itself down, a process that could end up taking years if you eat more than one meal a week.
2182
2183https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane#Human_health
2184Spiders are a better pesticide than DDT because spiders don't kill humans along with the bugs they're assigned to kill.
2185
2186==================================================
2187
2188amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/19 12:33
2189
2190@TK
2191Lead accumulates in blood, DDT does not
2192
2193@Vidkunssonn
2194Anti-DDT propaganda. Also, are you suggesting that we release tons of spiders into the fields to eat insects? Dont you think they will eat our food?
2195
2196==================================================
2197
2198Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/19 14:22
2199
2200Nope, just the fat. But hey, it's not like an average healthy human is between 10 and 20% of that stuff. And it's certainly not like those completely hypothetical fat stores are intimately linked to the digestive system where DDT would just harmlessly pass through with no effect. Nope, probably nothing to worry about.
2201
2202Also spiders are carnivores. They'll round out their diet with as much as 25% pollen during slow periods with little prey, but they don't have any interest in fruits or vegetables.
2203
2204==================================================
2205
2206Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/19 15:05
2207
2208@amazingdude
2209I've lost all respect for you just now, And in case you can't tell, which I really doubt you could, TK's 14:22 comment is purely sarcasm.
2210
2211==================================================
2212
2213shroomkitty				#G7eDnRvm 2017/06/20 03:16
2214
2215When did this turn into a geopolitical and climate discussion, holy damn.
2216
2217==================================================
2218
2219Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/20 05:17
2220
2221@Amazingdude
2222I'm afraid that if you cannot logically 'debunk' what I said in the 'causes of land retreat' comment with an equal amount of knowledge of physical geography, my point stands.
2223
2224Your plan to somehow relocate 150 million people is not 'difficult', it's impossible, unless you prove otherwise. What is possible however, is helping people to cope with the effects of climate change and flooding. In the case of Bangladesh, this would involve improving and relocating buildings, the construction of sea defenses. People will receive more education about the dangers of flooding and what they can do to avoid affected areas and lessen the damage. Emergency and services can be improved to respond faster and operate at a higher skill and technology level. 
2225
2226==================================================
2227
2228Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/20 06:14
2229
2230@Dark Doctor: Don't kid anyone about that, least not yourself. The PG comment boards haven't been PG related for several years because there's simply nothing original, on-topic, and interesting enough to talk about after all that time. If that annoys you, you might want to find a different forum.
2231
2232==================================================
2233
2234amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/21 00:54
2235
2236@TK
2237You're saying DDT gets absorbed into the fat? Some might, but the rest just gets shit back out. 
2238
2239@Vidkunssonn
2240You lost the argument weeks ago. Get over it.
2241
2242@Shroomkitty
2243When I exposed the leftist alarmist lie that is manmade climate change.
2244
2245@T&W
2246That's honestly not a bad idea. It's a temporary solution, however, and our ultimate goal would be to relocate people away from danger zones.
2247
2248==================================================
2249
2250Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/21 03:10
2251
2252Yeah, some gets absorbed for every meal, and then it stays in the body for ~15 years. $.03 isn't very much money, but if you get $.03 every day for 15 years you'll have $164.25, which is a fair amount that I imagine most people would emphatically NOT want to be converted into carcinogens embedded in their fat stores.
2253
2254==================================================
2255
2256Reztak's				#FLVo5wE6 2017/06/21 05:57
2257
2258@amazingdude
2259Saying that @vidkunssonn lost the argument is just stupid. That's like thinking you've won a roasting contest by saying "you're stupid and you should die" before the other person has a chance to "diss" you. 
2260
2261==================================================
2262
2263amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/21 08:44
2264
2265@TK
2266Even if DDT gets stored in fat, it'll be broken down and then shat out when the fat is burned for energy.
2267
2268@Vidkunssonn
2269Hah, I'm delusional. Everybody else on here is.
2270
2271@Reztak
2272... Because he did lose the argument?
2273
2274==================================================
2275
2276Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/21 10:25
2277
2278You realize that's starvation, right? A healthy human body needs to 10-20% fat otherwise they're basically dying. Fat is always the last thing to be digested.
2279Also you don't win a debate until the other side can't logically counter you anymore, Vidkunssonn still has some good points- and ignoring them makes you the loser. Fat is always the last thing to be digested while recovery is still possible outside of a hospital. Technically the body will still be able to cannibalize itself just fine once there's no fat, but getting back to health after that requires an organ transplant.
2280
2281Also I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me delusional, especially since you're the one with the conspiracy theory whose supposed goals even even you can't make sense of enough to give a bare-bones explanation of despite having enough proof to be adamant that they exist.
2282
2283==================================================
2284
2285Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/21 20:21
2286
2287*Destroying people in argument*
2288*Refuses to address or even counter challenges and points made by opponents* 
2289
2290==================================================
2291
2292amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/22 05:22
2293
2294@TK
2295So, the fat just sits there your whole life then? OK, then the DDT should just sit there inside it and be harmless then.
2296
2297@T&W
2298You talkng about yourself?
2299
2300==================================================
2301
2302Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/22 05:49
2303
2304@amazingdude
2305Yes, I am the one who failed to counter the point on the subject of China. I failed to address the process of bioaccumulation, and failed to provide any evidence to support my argument that humans had no impact on the hydraulic erosion of land. 
2306
2307==================================================
2308
2309Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/22 06:07
2310
2311Just because it's not being used for nutrition doesn't mean it isn't still reactive to toxic chemicals being embedded in it. Chemistry is still a thing whether you're actively thinking about it or not. Why the hell do you have so many closed-system ideas about so many subjects?
2312
2313==================================================
2314
2315Reztak's				#FLVo5wE6 2017/06/22 14:08
2316
2317@amazingdude
2318I believe that you don't understand the concept of sarcasm, so I'll explain what I believe @T&W meant. Address every "I" in @T&W's comment as yourself, and correct any grammar mistakes as you replace the "I"s' with "amazingdude".
2319
2320==================================================
2321
2322amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/23 13:09
2323
2324@T&W
2325That is correct. You cant argue to save your life.
2326
2327@TK
2328I am open minded, its just hard to change your mind when everything presented to you is garbage. Believe DDT is a humankiller, I will believe that it is beneficial for us.
2329
2330@Reztak
2331I do understand sarcasm.
2332
2333==================================================
2334
2335Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/23 13:23
2336
2337I dare you to buy a 2 liter of DDT (or at whatever measurement they're sold as) and drink it like soda. Tell me how "beneficial" it is afterwards.
2338
2339==================================================
2340
2341Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/23 13:41
2342
2343Belief doesn't grant magical powers. I'm seriously concerned for your safety.
2344
2345==================================================
2346
2347Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/24 00:48
2348
2349You say I cannot argue, and that you do understand sarcasm, but you fail to make any attempt to put forward a proper point. What's wrong with you?
2350
2351==================================================
2352
2353amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/24 03:04
2354
2355@Vidkunssonn
2356Thats enough DDT to hurt you. You dont understand that a little DDT is not bad, like in food, but alot, like drinking it straight, is bad.
2357
2358@TK
2359Why is my safety at risk?
2360
2361@T&W
2362Nothing.
2363
2364==================================================
2365
2366COMMENT BOT				#CYDOyoro 2017/06/24 03:37
2367
2368@amazingdude
2369this turn into a hoaxnot manmadesomehow beneficial it from danger zones. 
2370
2371==================================================
2372
2373Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/24 04:38
2374
2375@COMMENT BOT
2376Don't turn this into a YouTube comment section.
2377
2378@amazingdude
2379Yes, but consuming that tiny amount, the one you claim to be "safe", 3 times a day will eventually build up to become that large amount, the one you're claiming to be "bad". You're failing to understand that DDT is not digestible. It will not just pass right through your body. Get that stupid idea out of your head.
2380
2381==================================================
2382
2383Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/24 04:43
2384
2385A normal, functioning human should be able to respond to my arguments. You haven't bothered, or are unable to do so. So tell me, are you able to find any of your home-grown explanations, youtube videos or alternative science articles 'debunking' the claim that human activity is capable of accelerating the process of erosion and mass movement? Or bioaccumulation? Or China's problem with pollution?
2386
2387==================================================
2388
2389amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/24 04:45
2390
2391@Vidkunssonn
2392If you cant digest it then that means it passes right through and out your ass. We cant digest fiber, yet it doesnt build up in our bodies. We cant digest certain food coloring, yet we don't turn rainbow. Instead, our shit turns green. While a small amount may be absorbed, you'd need to consume alot of DDT for that to happen enough to be harmful.
2393
2394@T&W
2395You have not provided any proof either.
2396
2397==================================================
2398
2399COMMENT BOT				#CYDOyoro 2017/06/24 05:16
2400
2401@amazingdude
2402i cannot argue and sir unoif you get fat is always the construction of if you literally need to respond to provide any countrys government be able to make any attempt to be able to be able to prevent it then that would be able to link all the last thing to counter challenges and uninhabitable areas you plan to move them all the hell do you replace the hydraulic erosion of life how will you realize thats starvation right through and sir unoif you beat all that tiny amount may be funny isnt gonna be digested .
2403
2404==================================================
2405
2406Tyne and wear			5GBDuOyX 2017/06/24 05:18
2407
2408I did produce evidence, in the form of a theoretical analysis of cliff collapse. If you require physical evidence, try looking at Barton-on-Sea or Hurst Castle Spit. For the issue of pollution in China, you could have easily challenged what I said, for obvious reasons, even if you didn't use any facts or statistics. Bioaccumulation itself is proof of the dangers of DDT usage. It is a well known biological process but for some reason, you decided not to respond. If you had produced convincing material for your rebuttal, instead of single-word and single-sentence denials, you would be in a tactically advantageous in this debate. 
2409
2410==================================================
2411
2412Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/24 10:41
2413
2414Comment Bot is something Scy created that takes selected words from previous comments and structures a sentence from them at random. Currently, it cannot be communicated with because the quality of these sentences are not comprehensible.
2415
2416@amazingdude
2417Then explain how when mercury and lead are consumed, neither of them pass right through the body and are shat. The same thing applies to DDT. Just because other things, like food coloring, don't stay in your body even though they can't be digested, doesn't mean EVERYTHING that can't be digested doesn't stay in your body.
2418
2419==================================================
2420
2421Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/24 11:34
2422
2423Because despite having the resources of a 20-something, you've made it rather clear that your risk-assessment ability is a slightly below average for a teenager. There's lots of ways to accidentally kill or maim yourself with household supplies if you just straight up disbelieve decades-old proven science or fail to link basic chemistry facts together.
2424
2425==================================================
2426
2427Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/06/24 12:25
2428
2429I just love how an argument on the CBs has several sophisticated points from both sides and then COMMENT BOT says something like that. XD It's trying to be one of us!
2430
2431==================================================
2432
2433amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/26 13:01
2434
2435https://pastebin.com/gBH9dUbK
2436
2437Sorry for the delay.
2438 
2439@T&W
2440Human activity or global warming has nothing to do with cliff collapse. Chinese pollution is exaggerated heavily by the media. You cant debunk anything I say because I am correct.
2441 
2442@Vidkunssonn
2443Hg and Pb both get absorbed into the blood, unlike DDT, which either passes straight thru and you shit it out, or sits in your fat doing nothing.
2444 
2445@TK
2446DDT being non toxic IS decade old knowledge, backed up by chemistry.
2447
2448==================================================
2449
2450Huh/					#W2kFFhkW 2017/06/26 14:02
2451
2452What are you talking about "Chinese pollution in the media"? Lately, all the media on Chinese pollution has been good-- about how they are investing millions-- billions?, into clean energy. 
2453
2454==================================================
2455
2456Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/26 18:28
2457
2458DDT is a known carcinogen due to it's radioactivity and lipophilia, carcinogens don't work the same way as other toxins because they don't have to directly kill cells so much as they damage affected DNA until the cells can't terminate themselves- forming a tumor.
2459
2460Also when it comes to dissolving anything- whether it's drink mix or an entire coastline, how warm much heat is in the system matters a lot. So GCC would in fact contribute to erosion, just because it means the ocean is warmer.
2461
2462==================================================
2463
2464Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/26 23:44
2465
2466@amazingdude
2467That has no impact on what I said. As you say, if it can't be digested, then it just passes right through and is shat. I gave 2 examples besides DDT that are not digestible, and you then supported my statement that they don't just pass right through. And you don't ever shit out any DDT you eat. Your intestines are 11 miles long so that that never happens.
2468
2469==================================================
2470
2471Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/27 03:09
2472
2473@amazingdude
2474Until you come up with some satisfactory evidence at or above the level I have presented, your point holds no validity. You have pretty much lost the cliff collapse argument. You haven't even described the processes that you think cause cliff collapse.
2475
2476Likewise, you have brought no supporting material for any of the arguments you have made concerning China. China has a serious problem with pollution, regardless of what western media says. Heck, I don't even need western media, all I have to do is go outside on a walk to see the full extent of the pollution at hand. 
2477
2478==================================================
2479
2480hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/27 13:44
2481
2482The intestines are 25 feet long (both small and large combined) but either way, DDT is known to remain in fat.
2483
2484==================================================
2485
2486amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/27 17:09
2487
2488@huh
2489Those pics where you cant see 3 inches and everything is gray fog.
2490
2491@TK
2492Oh look, land erodes 0.00002% faster! You may wrongly believe DDT causes cancer just by sitting around, but just know the science is against you.
2493
2494@T&W
2495I won the argument, hands down. You're just butthurt you lost.
2496
2497@Vidkunssonn
2498What are you saying... And the intestines are not 11 miles long. You just discredited everything you said.
2499
2500==================================================
2501
2502Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/27 22:14
2503
2504Ahh yes. The "science" that you refuse to cite for any reason because mainstream research can't be trusted because the entire world has been bribed by a shadowy organization. I know this well.
2505Any update on that conspiracy's supposed game-plan btw? It's been over a month since I first asked about it, surely you've put together something.
2506
2507==================================================
2508
2509Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/28 01:43
2510
2511@amazingdude
2512Comsidering that I was the only person making legitimate, logical points backed by evidence, firsthand experience and real-world examples, I do not see why you even call it an argument. 
2513
2514==================================================
2515
2516amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/28 03:08
2517
2518@TK
2519Not the entire world, just the top scientists and journal publishers. No journal will get published for not promoting manmade climate change, because they simply wont allow it. Then the public buys into ther load of bullshit.
2520
2521@T&W
2522You're just butthurt you lost and arent as smart as me.
2523
2524==================================================
2525
2526Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/28 05:15
2527
2528I'm seriously doubting you're 25 years old. You're acting like a 12-year-old CoD player saying things like "you're butthurt" and "I'm smarter than you". The most intelligent thing you've ever said since you started this shit is that mercury and lead are absorbed into the blood when consumed, and that's also the only intelligent thing you've said since you started this shit.
2529
2530==================================================
2531
2532hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/28 07:19
2533
2534Amazing, nobody has lost the argument, although according to your definition of it, you've lost several times. You have no sources backing up what you're saying, even though your opposition has asked several times. Where are your sources?
2535
2536==================================================
2537
2538skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/28 08:38
2539
2540"Amazing"dude's idea of what it means to win an argument is to be so evasive and obnoxious that no one wants to argue with you anymore.
2541I'd love to see him take that on the academic circuit.
2542
2543==================================================
2544
2545Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/28 11:04
2546
2547Okay, but like, why? What are they getting out of it? Don't say something generic like "power", "money" or "control" because you're talking about someone who's already capable of bribing the upper echelons of society so they'd need plenty of both just to get started. What little of the plan you have outlined appears to be:
2548
2549Step 1: Be rich and influential
2550
2551Step 2: Convince entire world to sort their waste by material and demand that major industries cut their productivity by at least half if not be destroyed altogether.
2552
2553Step 3: ???
2554
2555Step 4: PROFIT!
2556
2557I hope you can see the problem I have with your entire position now that somebody's bothered to write it out.
2558
2559==================================================
2560
2561Fjen					#VCI9OTDw 2017/06/28 11:06
2562
2563amazing dude
2564i have been looking into your point of view and i have found it very interesting and much more convincing and believable than the generally accepted view of human activity = bad. i apologize for being so harsh on you. your sources have really changed the way i look at science and the media. you were right all along: man made global warming is bullpoop. i must admit, it was hard to accept the fact that i have been lied to all my life, but with an open mind, i learned to accept that you can't just blindly trust whatever people tell you. thank you for showing the way of climate skepticism, and giving me the opportunity to expand my point of view by taking climate skepticism into my heart. please do not believe the sacks of hot air on this board. i strongly urge you all to really look into amazing dude's sources.
2565
2566==================================================
2567
2568Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/28 11:12
2569
2570Wait. Don't tell me...
2571You're one of *those* conspiracy theorists aren't you?
2572
2573==================================================
2574
2575amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/28 12:59
2576
2577@Vidkunssonn
2578I am 25, want proof? Keep calling me stupid then, its not gonna make you any more credible.
2579
2580@Hotdogeater
2581Umm, you all lost?
2582
2583@Skyk
2584No, it's to argue your point and prove evidence to the point the opponent cannot dispute it. I've WON multiple times.
2585
2586@TK
2587Umm, what is the illuminati?
2588
2589@Fjen
2590Aren't you the same person who called me a fox sheep? I can't believe you have completely flipped in only 2 weeks. If you are serious, it goes to show the power of alternative science.
2591
2592==================================================
2593
2594wot						#n0cGJnYm 2017/06/28 13:37
2595
2596For a 25 year old you sure do post on /r/teenagers a lot...
2597
2598==================================================
2599
2600hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/29 00:13
2601
2602The problem with your claim of winning is... you aren't backing up your evidence and ignoring sources that dont fit your point of view.
2603
2604==================================================
2605
2606Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/29 01:49
2607
2608Don't even pretend like you're more credible than I am. I'm not the one running around telling everybody the government's a bunch of lying hypocrites scaring us and telling us we're killing ourselves "just to get money". You're a fool to actually believe that you won. This is how I see this situation:
2609
2610A little kid and a big kid get into a fight.
2611The big kid punches the little kid in the stomach, and the little kid falls to the ground.
2612The little kid stands back up and keeps trying to fight, despite the fact he's too hurt to harm the big kid in the slightest.
2613The big kid can tell the little kid can't win the fight, so out of mercy, he walks away.
2614Later, the little kid claims to everyone that he won the fight because the big kid "gave up".
2615
2616In this story, you are the little kid. We didn't "give up", we got tired of your foolishness and decided that we've had enough of it. That's not admitting defeat, that's showing mercy.
2617
2618==================================================
2619
2620Scythertom				#3Adfqt77 2017/06/29 02:16
2621
2622Are you guys STILL arguing here ;_;
2623
2624==================================================
2625
2626Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/29 02:47
2627
2628@amazingdude
2629You believe you have won a debate despite making the fewest credible points out of all us. You are now entitled to proclaim yourself with the title: the master of debating. 
2630
2631==================================================
2632
2633klamo					#f6R3Pvaf 2017/06/29 03:32
2634
2635Don't worry, killa-byte {amazingdude} is just a dumb teenager acting like he's 25
2636
2637==================================================
2638
2639SkyPhantomhive			#qRyKW7MC 2017/06/29 07:52
2640
2641uh this argument is still a thing?
2642
2643I'm not dead....Although I shall not be here for three weeks due to the fact i'm going to Florida to study NASA. 
2644
2645==================================================
2646
2647mazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/29 11:03
2648
2649https://pastebin.com/DQ0uFVVb
2650
2651@wot/klamo
2652Are you talking about me?
2653 
2654@Dracobot
2655At this point, me and Fjen are the only sane ones, everyone else is batshit crazy trolls.
2656 
2657@hotdogeater
2658Yes i am. YOU are the ones who aren't.
2659 
2660@Sky
2661Please expose the climate change hoax from within. Tell us everything NASA told you.
2662 
2663@Vidkunssonn
2664You're confused. YOU are the little kid, I'm the big kid. I destroyed you with evidence, and you keep coming back like a dying insect. You lost, get over it.
2665 
2666@Scyth
2667Yes, and everyone sucks at it.
2668
2669==================================================
2670
2671Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/29 12:18
2672
2673"Evidence"
2674Don't make me laugh.
2675
2676==================================================
2677
2678Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/29 12:38
2679
26801) I have a hard time believing that you've never heard of the "Illuminati" conspiracy that supposedly rule the world and plaster triangles everywhere.
2681
26822) Still waiting on that Realpolitik motive, you know, the plan that your entire argument rests on? Ignore this if you want, but it's not doing your "rational" image any favors. You just don't have any foundation to be accusing NASA of faking their data without this conspiracy of yours having a plausible motive to extort them for.
2683
2684==================================================
2685
2686amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/29 14:03
2687
2688@Vidkunssonn
2689Not like you have any. I proved over 7 sources a while back.
2690
2691@TK
26921. I have heard of it, and it is bullshit.
2693
26942. the top scientists and journal publishers are bribed to promote the global warming hoax. No journal will get published for debating manmade climate change, because they simply wont allow it. Then the public buys into ther load of bullshit. I've explained it multiple times, you just dont get it.
2695
2696==================================================
2697
2698Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/29 14:16
2699
2700That's the accusation, I'm asking for the motive. What does anyone get out of making people believe a lie that would justify spending so much money? Especially when the lie would do nothing but cost more money, If it were enemy action, that'd be one thing but you've been specifically saying that our own government is responsible for this supposed misinformation campaign. What possible benefit could they extract from cutting their own tax base?
2701
2702==================================================
2703
2704RSLASHFLATEARTH			#g8ZCKAqA 2017/06/30 05:48
2705
2706Congratulations on the most retarded comment of the year amazingdude!
2707
2708>2. the top scientists and journal publishers are bribed to promote the global warming hoax. No journal will get published for debating manmade climate change, because they simply wont allow it. Then the public buys into ther load of bullshit. I've explained it multiple times, you just dont get it.
2709
2710==================================================
2711
2712Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/30 08:28
2713
2714Have you really proved several of your sources? Try some more. Start with your China argument.
2715
2716==================================================
2717
2718Guy						#FOK6yzuj 2017/06/30 12:32
2719
2720AMAZINGDUDE DOX
2721-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
2722Real name: Fred Michaelson
2723Home address: 11196 Carriage Ave, Montclair, California, United States
2724Race: White
2725Phone number: +1 (909) 642-8592
2726Age: 25
2727DOB: 1991-10-28
2728Siblings: 1
2729Occupation: Accountant
2730Mother: Stacy Hartford
2731DOB: 1963-05-13
2732Father: Richard Michaelson
2733DOB: 1964-08-19
2734-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
2735Next time, do not humiliate yourself on the internet.
2736
2737==================================================
2738
2739skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/30 13:02
2740
2741I don't want to have to defend AD, but that is totally inappropriate "Guy".
2742
2743==================================================
2744
2745amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/30 13:46
2746
2747@Guy
2748What the fuck? You really think its right to dox people because they dont believe the same conspiracy you do?
2749
2750@TK
2751More money for themselves. More money for the greentards unsustainable energy. Who's funding all this "research"?
2752
2753@R<something>
2754We'll see who's right when their conspiracy crumbles in on itself in a few years.
2755
2756==================================================
2757
2758Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/30 15:53
2759
2760NASA received about $18 billion dollars in 2012 from government grants, for contrast the Exxon Mobil payed over $145 billion in 2012. That's just one of the affected industries, the cut in profits would hit every business in the US that uses fossil fuels. I ask again, how would the government profit from cutting into the profits of their own oil industries to justify spending even more money on perpetuating a lie?
2761
2762Also what do you mean "unsustainable energy"? What exactly is unsustainable about harvesting sunlight, wind, tides or any other force?
2763
2764==================================================
2765
2766Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/30 17:15
2767
2768Guy, now I know more about Fred than I ever really wanted to. Thanks. Hopefully that comment will be removed. Unless he ends up provoking someone to kill themselves, he does not deserve to be doxed. The same goes for everybody here.
2769
2770@TK
2771Link plz fam kthx luv u
2772
2773==================================================
2774
2775Scythertom				#fc5Ccs22 2017/06/30 22:19
2776
2777Lmao there's no way that's real
2778
2779==================================================
2780
2781amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/01 05:10
2782
2783https://pastebin.com/JwvRqFJU
2784
2785@TK
2786It's all about More money for themselves.
2787 
2788As for unsustainability, wind and solar are very unfeasible. I present to you, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObvdSmPbdLg . Basically, you're not guaranteed to get energy, as it relies heavily on conditions, compared to fossil fuels, which are reliable, sustainable, cheap, and plentiful. A better way to see this is to imagine you have 2 candidates for a job: One that will work 40hr/wk consistantly, every day, and get his work done. Another can theoretically get it done is 20 hours, but he comes in whenever he feels like it and may or may not get it done. Which one would you rather hire? Solar panels use very rare elements, and to run the whole world on solar, you'd need 7 earths just to get all the rare elements. For wind, you'd need to fill the earth with wind turbines, and even then, the energy would be very unreliable.
2789 
2790Yes, fossil fuels won't last forever, but they will last us for 100 years at miniumu, while more optimistic estimates are 250+ years. Yes, we'll need a new energy source, and hydro and nuclear are our best alternatives. I shat on nuclear before, but I have since changed my mind. I think we should scrap wind, solar, and all that crap and put it into nuclear.
2791 
2792@Scythertom
2793I'm not gonna say whether it's real or not.
2794
2795==================================================
2796
2797Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/01 07:21
2798
2799It's real.
2800
2801==================================================
2802
2803Dark Doctor				#UssduMir 2017/07/01 08:01
2804
2805Doxing? Really?
2806
2807==================================================
2808
2809Guy						#Tk53rxkh 2017/07/01 08:49
2810
2811Dann right it is real amazingdude
2812
2813==================================================
2814
2815hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/01 12:45
2816
2817"Guy", that is just messed up. Why do you think its ok to go online and dox someone and reveal all their information
2818
2819==================================================
2820
2821Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/01 13:15
2822
2823If fossil fuels run out 300 years from now it'll be be vastly sooner than we run out of sunlight - 5 billion years. That's hardly unsustainable, unreliable sure, but they're definitely more sustainable than anything requiring fuel. What are these "very rare elements" that bottleneck solar energy so much? As far as I know, solar panels are mostly made of silicon semi-conductors. A bit out of the 60s' budget to mass-produce but certainly not now. 
2824
2825Comparing the every form of fossil fuel power together to just one form of green power is a little biased. Ideally we'd use the whole spectrum of green powers, from solar to wind to tidal to geothermal to motion to recycled waste heat. And then put nuclear plants in space to minimize land-loss.
2826
2827==================================================
2828
2829amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/01 18:25
2830
2831https://pastebin.com/j84aChy3
2832
2833They fixed the broken links. Also, why the hell is my dox still up?
2834 
2835@TK
2836 
2837It'll last 5 billion years, no doubt, but shit energy will always be shit energy no matter how long it lasts. And in 200 million years we'd have some more oil due to more recent organic matter being crushed into oil. However this is irrelevant.
2838
2839Most individual green energy sources faint in comparison to any fossil fuels, except for nuclear and maybe hydro. They are just shit. Nuclear in space is a great idea.
2840
2841==================================================
2842
2843-Greywolf9-				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 08:38
2844
2845I've had an idea for a kind of generator that turns due to magnets being repelled away from each other. There was a thing on Kickstarter I saw where a guy designed a car engine that ran on magnets, and I thought that maybe the same method could be used to generate electricity. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/948372200/magnets-motor?ref=video. Until this method is fully developed, nuclear is my favorite.
2846
2847==================================================
2848
2849Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/02 08:59
2850
2851*Waits patiently for nuclear fusion*
2852
2853==================================================
2854
2855skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 09:13
2856
2857Greywolf/Vid:
2858As much as I like alternative energy, that magnet generator is most likely not a valid option. It might increase the efficiency of an axle, but to imagine that it could generate energy would be to say that it's a perpetual motion machine, AKA impossible. There has to be some sort of external energy source to maintain movement, otherwise the friction of rotation will slow down whatever force the magnets provide until it stops completely.
2859
2860==================================================
2861
2862hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/02 09:38
2863
2864Nuclear fission is already in use, same for fusion, but fusion is only used in some nuclear bombs and we dont have a method to control it. Fission is in use for energy and its definitely reliable. Since climate change is more long term, we could, for a limited amount of time, continue using them, as better, and cleaner energy is put into use. Also, us running out of sunlight in five billion years will probably not even matter by then. Either we will die off or probably be everywhere by then.
2865
2866==================================================
2867
2868Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 10:31
2869
2870@skyk
2871The only way to prove that is to actually build the machine.
2872
2873==================================================
2874
2875skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 10:48
2876
2877Not really. I mean, besides the fact that it breaks the law of physics, any simulation would probably show the equilibrium point where the "generator" would stop. It's basically the same idea as the joke about the magnet car:
2878
2879==================================================
2880
2881amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/02 11:38
2882
2883@Vidkunssonn
2884I remember graywolf a long time ago on this site. If that magnet machine can produce enough energy, I'm down for it, however on a worldwide scale, its gonna be a bit hard to find all the materials to make enough magnets. I'd put money if i can, but if nobody else does, then my dollar or two really dont help, and they're rather pointless.
2885
2886@Hotdogeater
2887Climate change is not an issue worth doing anything about. Energy doesnt have to be clean, it just has to be reliale. Why does being clean matter?
2888
2889==================================================
2890
2891Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 13:49
2892
2893@amazingdude
2894Magnetic metal is not hard to find. Neodymium isn't that rare of a metal, and it's used for strong magnets. I do believe it's also possible to make metal magnetic. The difference is that the "car" is not powered by the magnets spinning. Two objects that attract to each other could not move a single object in a single direction, which is much different than, let's say, 4 objects pushing 4 other objects in different directions could produce torque.
2895
2896http://i.xomf.com/bcqjx.jpg
2897This is a very crude drawing of what I fail to describe. Not sure if it's clear, because my drawing skills are 0/10, but it's the best I got.
2898
2899==================================================
2900
2901skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 14:36
2902
2903Unless there's some external force causing the magnets to spin, it won't make any difference whether they're rotating or how many magnets there are. At any given point in the rotation, the magnetic forces in multiple different directions would cancel out with the tension of the structures holding the magnets in, and it wouldn't move.
2904
2905==================================================
2906
2907Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 14:42
2908
2909It's the force of the magnets repelling each other that makes the inner disc spin. The magnets themselves are not spinning, they are being repelled by the magnets on the outer disc, causing the inner disc to spin.
2910
2911==================================================
2912
2913skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 14:57
2914
2915Magnet's don't generate force any more than a rubber band does. They can repel, but when a magnet repels it is also equally repelled (Newton's third law).
2916Here's a better explanation than I can probably give:
2917https://www.quora.com/Is-a-magnetic-motor-that-produces-free-energy-possible/answer/Luciano-Zoso
2918
2919==================================================
2920
2921Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/02 17:42
2922
2923Yeah, that magnet engine probably wouldn't work. You need a power source to spin the outer magnets to spin the inner magnets to generate power. It's just a turbine with extra steps.
2924
2925==================================================
2926
2927amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/02 18:03
2928
2929And, the brainwashed fools kill off the climate change debate once again!
2930Happy Murica day!
2931
2932==================================================
2933
2934Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/02 21:31
2935
2936The debate could have still been going on if you actually replied properly to my points. 
2937
2938==================================================
2939
2940Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/02 23:47
2941
2942I'm still unconvinced that any number of greedy politicians would prioritize a notorious cash-sink like green energy research over taxes (and lobbying) from oil/coal/gas industries. Also I recently learned that the ocean absorbs like 10% more carbon than it used to in the 90s which is lowering the ph level and making it harder for shellfish to reproduce while simultaneously increasing the frequency of red tides.
2943
2944==================================================
2945
2946Scythertom				#fc5Ccs22 2017/07/03 04:15
2947
2948amazingdude it's not America day yet goddamnit! I'll freedom slap you back to commieland if you don't get your dates right.
2949
2950==================================================
2951
2952amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/03 05:13
2953
2954@T&W
2955You didnt to mine
2956
2957@TK
2958Neither am I, because its not happening.
2959Ocean acificication is simply made up. The ocean is fucking HUGE. To turn it to acid, you would need over 70 earths full of carbon just to get its ph under 7. The ocean is already alkaline to begin with. And it has been shown that shellfish benefit from added carbon, and coral bleaching is natural and happens in cycles.
2960
2961@Scythertom
2962I said it in advance.
2963
2964==================================================
2965
2966Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/03 07:52
2967
2968@Fred
2969The fact that there's a measurable difference in pH in the oceans between the 90s and today means there's a problem and that what he said is not made up.
2970And T&W has responded with properly to what you've said. He told you his first-hand experiences with what goes on in China, and you ignored it because you knew it meant you're wrong. The worst kind of person is the one that is unable to accept the fact that they might be wrong once in their lifetime, and you're proving yourself more and more to be that kind of person.
2971
2972==================================================
2973
2974amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/03 11:47
2975
2976@Vidkunssonn
2977I debunked his china claim, and he doubled down on his "fact" I proved false already. HE is that person. The ocean's ph varies by location and time of year. Those readings are just as credible as taking a temperature in antarctica today and in the sahara next year claiming global warming.
2978
2979==================================================
2980
2981Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/03 13:58
2982
2983@Fred
2984Telling someone that they're wrong is not "debunking". So far, that's all you've said to him: a series of "you're wrong"s and "that's not true"s. To discredit someone's first-hand experience without evidence of any kind or any reason besides to not have to accept defeat is what makes you that kind of person.
2985
2986>The ocean's ph varies by location and time of year.
2987No shit. It's called an "average", you dillhole.
2988
2989==================================================
2990
2991amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/03 18:33
2992
2993@Vidkunssonn
2994I proved his china claim wrong. PROVED IT.
2995Also, "Those ph readings are just as credible as taking a temperature in antarctica today and in the sahara next year claiming global warming."
2996
2997==================================================
2998
2999Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/03 18:47
3000
3001"1. The vast majority of Chinese urban population does not need an air mask. Only in the most extreme areas on heavy days do people need masks. This is an example of media manipulation."
3002
3003"China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media."
3004
3005That is 100% of your "counter-argument" against it. The definition of "prove" is "demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument." There is no "evidence" against it in 100% of what you've said, and saying "[this] is true" is not an argument, so to say that you've "proven" anything is about as accurate as saying TK is secretly a furry who's in love with STS.
3006
3007==================================================
3008
3009Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/04 01:04
3010
3011@amazingdude
3012You made a statement unsupported by any evidence. China has a bad problem with pollution, regardless of comments by western media, which are no longer even as critical about China's environmental standing as they used to be. Deal with it. I know because I live there. Go to China and see for yourself.
3013
3014==================================================
3015
3016amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/04 04:34
3017
3018@Vidkunssonn
3019There is evidence, you just cant see it because your brainwashed by the hoax.
3020
3021@T&W
3022Wheres your evicence boii? You just restate your bullshit that was proven wrong before.
3023
3024==================================================
3025
3026Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/04 04:52
3027
3028Where? Where is the fucking evidence? I'm sorry to tell you this, but your beloved imaginary evidence doesn't fucking exist. Look at everything you said, and tell me which part of it was evidence against T&W's claim. If I'm satisfied that what you give me is actually evidence, I'll stop talking about this.
3029
3030Note: "evidence" does not include you saying "[so and so] is [this]". You need citation from an outside source that supports your claim (articles, pictures, etc.), not just something you've said. Stating your belief is not evidence, and if you try to pass what I've repeated from you as your evidence, I will also stop talking because you're too stupid and ignorant for me to want to continue this shit with you.
3031Good luck.
3032
3033==================================================
3034
3035Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/04 05:02
3036
3037@amazingdude
3038Have you proved that I'm not in China? Have you proved that the things I see are incorrect? Have you proved that the smell of sulphur coming from the river I pass every day is faked by this supposed global science network? Is the smog I see generated by some special effects machine owned by western media companies? You've done nothing.
3039
3040==================================================
3041
3042Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/04 06:53
3043
3044@amazingdude
3045I believe that Grey meant that the ocean's carbon levels don't fluctuate from place to place as e.xtremely as the temperature does when comparing Antarctica to the Sahara, so the average wouldn't deviate abnormally from usual.
3046Disclaimer: this is my interpretation of Grey's words, not any of my own. : )
3047
3048==================================================
3049
3050hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/05 07:08
3051
3052If you get a cup of water, take a sip from it then leave it out over night, if you take another sip it will taste different. This is because the water absorbed CO2 making the water slightly more acidic, and thats why it tastes different. This is also happening to the ocean, although slower since the ocean probably has over a trillion times the water in that cup. The ocean is absorbing C02 and measurements show that the ocean is becoming slightly more acidic.
3053
3054==================================================
3055
3056amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/05 11:08
3057
3058@Vidkunssonn
3059I just posted the evidence. No reputable source will back me up, because big science wont allow it.
3060
3061@T&W
3062I proved all of that. Pollution exists, but manmade climate change does not.
3063
3064@Hotdgeater
3065"Slightly" as in 0.00...01 PH. The mass of all the co2 in the atmosphere is 2*10^15 kilograms. The mass of all the oceans are 1.4*10^21 kilograms. Thats like saying 1 gram of CO2 is gonna turn 700kg of water into acid, which is phsycially impossible. There is not enough CO2 on earth to turn the oceans into acid. Are you fucking brain dead? Thats assuming ALL of the co2 on earth goes into the oceans. Right now, only a fraction of earth's CO2 is going into the oceans, so the effect is gonna be even less.
3066I shouldnt have even used metric because its murica day, but it's easier to work with when dealing with huge numbers. You can thank me for that.
3067
3068==================================================
3069
3070Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/05 12:06
3071
3072@amazingdude
3073That's assuming the effects of acidification affects the entire volume of all of the oceans in the world equally, which is obviously not true. It's primarily an effect near the surface of the water, and even then is more of an issue in certain regions of the oceans than others.
3074
3075And you're saying you've proven..
30761) T&W does not live in China
3077
30782) The sulfur he smells every day when he passes that river is faked by your supposed global science network
3079
30803) The smog he sees is generated by a special effects machine owned by western media companies
3081
3082==================================================
3083
3084Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/05 17:18
3085
3086What do you mean you agree that they wouldn't back their own green energy conspiracy over the profits of keeping the fossil fuel industries?! That's not what you've been saying at all. Fine, whatever. If you're going to insist on backtracking on that point, then who does have the means and motive to back "big science"?
3087
3088==================================================
3089
3090Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/06 07:59
3091
3092@amazingdude
3093You're saying you have no data that agrees with your theory and you have no reputable sources to support your claim either. Isn't that just typical? 
3094
3095==================================================
3096
3097amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/06 12:35
3098
3099@Vidkunssonn
3100Acidic water is heavier, and it tends to sink to the bottom. This convection should ensure that the whole ocean is affected equally by CO2 levels.
3101
3102@TK
3103Of course its not. You cant understand my arguments. The wolrd governments are the backers of big science.
3104
3105@T&W
3106You say that to me, but really its true for you.
3107
3108==================================================
3109
3110Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/06 15:27
3111
3112@amazingdude
3113No, I didn't say that, you said that yourself. 'No reputable source will back me up'. If you can't even find any 'alternative' sources to support your claim. How could you have proved me wrong when you haven't even used the word 'China' for 3 days, let alone disprove the fact I live there? You haven't even mentioned sulphur or haze yet.
3114
3115==================================================
3116
3117Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/06 19:15
3118
3119If they already control every government on Earth, why would they need more power? The first rule of international politics is that you can do whatever you want as long as nobody more powerful stops you. Somebody who already has the most power wouldn't need a faux information campaign to legitimize anything, they'd just do it.
3120
3121==================================================
3122
3123Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/07 15:52
3124
3125@amazingdude
3126You are highly overestimating dilution rates in the oceans; that, or you just don't understand it. It's okay, not everybody is good at chemistry. *pats your head*
3127
3128==================================================
3129
3130hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/08 05:09
3131
3132Cold water is also heavier (until it freezes). As you go deeper, the temperature of the water will drop.
3133
3134==================================================
3135
3136SkyPhantomhive			#qRyKW7MC 2017/07/08 13:29
3137
3138Yes we should celebrate the downfall of the Climate change PG2 series..
3139
3140==================================================
3141
3142amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/08 17:32
3143
3144@T&W
3145China. I have found sources, I posted them numerous times. Scroll down a few weeks to find them, I'm not gonna let you be lazy.
3146
3147@TK
3148Money aint infinite. You cant just print money if you dont wanna become Zimbabwe.
3149
3150@Vidkunssonn
3151Who just did more math in one comment than you did in your whole life? Re read that comment.
3152
3153@Hotdogeater
3154How is this relevant?
3155
3156==================================================
3157
3158Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/08 19:34
3159
31601) That's not exactly true, it's worth whatever the world's appraisers say it's worth, and if this conspiracy actually extends to every developed/developing nation (as it would have to to have any chance at succeeding) then the world government could just force compliance and jail whoever disagrees. After all, they certainly don't care about what's true and it's not like there'd be anyone to stop them.
3161
31622) I'm not the one that's been insinuating that there's a global conspiracy to brainwash people into demanding that the primary tax-base cut their profits for the sake of pouring more funding into propaganda. That's been you. 
3163
3164People generally believe themselves to have good reasons for doing things; that's my position, I've been asking you to clarify yours because that mess above sounds like a Scooby Doo villain plot to me.
3165
3166==================================================
3167
3168Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/08 19:41
3169
3170https://pastebin.com/VZjdA0cK
3171
3172@Amazingdude
3173 
3174Let's see...instead of countering my point like a normal person, you ask me to...find sources to counter my own point? Clearly I am the one being lazy here. Anyway, all things aside, here are some of your wonderful arguments I have picked up:
3175 
31761. The vast majority of Chinese urban population does not need an air mask. Only in the most extreme areas on heavy days do people need masks. This is an example of media manipulation.
3177 
3178"China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media.
3179 
3180Chinese pollution is exaggerated heavily by the media.
3181 
3182I proved his china claim wrong. PROVED IT."
3183 
3184You just restate your bullshit that was proven wrong before.
3185 
3186Just a small selection of the rebuttals you have made against me. Not a single source to be found. Only the first argument you made can be considered acceptable, which I countered immediately afterwards. All you did after that was respond 'China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media'. Providing that I literally live in China, have provided personal accounts to back by point up, and cannot be access western media at a regular rate, you point cannot be considered at all.
3187
3188==================================================
3189
3190Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/09 00:25
3191
3192My recommendation? Ignore amazingdude. Everyone. I appreciate you doing the right thing and supporting science, but we're just spinning our wheels as it is now. I was going to just let this peter out, but some "Guy" spurred me to action by crossing the line and attacking amazindude ad hominem by posting his info, which is just wrong, no matter the person. This debate is now dangerous. I urge both sides to drop it. And speaking specifically to amazingdude, you literally cannot make a comprehensive argument out of something not backed by actual facts. You are allowed an opinion, sure, in America we're allowed to have them, but you shouldn't force your opinion on others without concrete evidence. What I'm saying is that you won't be able to convince everyone, so you can sit back and stop wasting your time. If everyone needs something to talk about, you guys can pick something more disputed, like policy proposals or somesuch. I just urge you all to drop this before more people's personal lives get pulled into the limelight that is the internet.
3193
3194==================================================
3195
3196amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/09 15:28
3197
3198@TK
31991. They wont do that, thatll blow their cover more than it already has been.
32002. Yes, that is correct. My reason to believe them is that their evidence seems more believable than the government wants you to believe.
3201
3202@T&W
3203You havent provided sources to backup YOUR claim. How are you more credible than me, who hasnt done that either? Take a pic of your city, holding a paper saying "For Amazingdude". Go on, do it. Host it on some chinese image site or something. Prove me wrong.
3204
3205@Poofle
3206Who just got doxxed and is STILL CONTINUING what he was doing to get him doxxed? I doubt any of you have the balls to continue arguing after getting doxxed. For all we know he could have been a global warming shill who tried to scare the opposition out of existance. I'm not "forcing my opinion", I'm stating a fact. I'm no different than any of you other people, or even a teacher. I have stated my sources many times, but I got sick and tired of posting the same 6 links on every comment I made.
3207
3208==================================================
3209
3210Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/09 16:24
3211
3212Anyone who already controls the world doesn't need a cover and won't use one. Autocratic behavior is one of the best documented phenomena in human history, none of them are subtle.
3213
3214==================================================
3215
3216Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/10 00:26
3217
3218Note: I messed up and couldn't put this all on yesterday. This is the first part of my whole comment.
3219
3220All right, all right.
3221I have been observing this for the past few months from the beginning. I only posted once, to hopefully put a definitive end to this debacle. To sum it up in a few sentences, this is what I've seen:
3222
3223amazingdude: Man-made climate change is purely beneficial.
3224Everyone else: Well, no, because of [all the sources and reputed arguments listed]
3225amazingdude: Well, "Big Science" supported that, so it's wrong.
3226
3227Here, I see an underlying, unresolvable issue. Everyone other than amazingdude, everyone seems to agree that a network of scientists, some paid by the government, some not, agree that climate change is real, man-made, and ultimately harmful to our environment as massive quantities of sequestered carbon is released back into the atmosphere.
3228
3229amazingdude, however, is convinced that peer-reviewed and government research is all inherently bogus.
3230So here's my assessment: amazingdude, if he's not a troll (which I really think he is, based off of the fact that he keeps repeating the same things, as long as he gets a reaction), then he ardently believes in something that literally cannot be proved as society is today, 
3231
3232==================================================
3233
3234Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/10 03:14
3235
3236Holy shit, Poofle, you talk a lot.
3237@amazingdude
3238"Who just did more math in one comment than you did in your whole life?"
3239You've done no math at all. Ever. Not once since you started this shit.
3240
3241==================================================
3242
3243Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/10 04:49
3244
3245@Amazingdude
3246The activities you listed are impossible for me at the moment, for I am on holiday in France. I'll do all that sign stuff after I get back next week. However, I have gotten my friend to take a picture of what my city is like at the moment. http://imgur.com/a/T2nyc
3247
3248Anyway, now you admit to having posted no sources, despite you previously saying that you've posted them 'numerous times'. Good job. Furthermore, one does not win by equalling their opponent, rather by exceeding them. If you want to win this debate, I suggest to gather some evidence first.
3249
3250My personal experience can be considered evidence. Examples of this can be found extensively in the real world. The accuracy and validity of such accounts can be challenged, which despite taking you three weeks to address, is what you have just done.
3251
3252==================================================
3253
3254Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/10 11:33
3255
3256@Poofle
3257For the record, amazingdude is a troll. Just look at his previous uploads. He also comes every now and then to bring up a controversial topic to start a debate (I believe the last one was the gun control debate). But I'm not suggesting that these aren't his actual beliefs, because they could be (the boy who cried climate change, right?). I'm actually glad that this debate is happening. This board has been super active for a very long time. I'll admit, the dox was over the line, but as long as nothing else extreme happens, I'm fine and even enjoy a good debate.
3258
3259==================================================
3260
3261Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/10 11:41
3262
3263Here's the middle of my really long comment. It's the last one, I promise.
3264
3265as it questions the very system we use to actually prove things scientifically. Everyone else leans on experts, studies, and other supported facts to support their claims. As such, the argument is at an impasse where one person is basing their arguments on an entirely unprovable set of beliefs, while the world is backed by, well, the world. So long as amazingdude chooses not to believe "Big Science," this debate will never end until one party drops it. If this were a formal debate, we'd have a time limit and a judge to look at the facts laid out and choose a winner, but since it isn't, this will never end, as coming to an agreement is apparently impossible. 
3266
3267++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3268
3269POOFLE'S COMMENT FULL - RECOMPILED LATER
3270
3271All right, all right.
3272I have been observing this for the past few months from the beginning. I only posted once, to hopefully put a definitive end to this debacle. To sum it up in a few sentences, this is what I've seen:
3273
3274amazingdude: Man-made climate change is purely beneficial.
3275Everyone else: Well, no, because of [all the sources and reputed arguments listed]
3276amazingdude: Well, "Big Science" supported that, so it's wrong.
3277
3278Here, I see an underlying, unresolvable issue. Everyone other than amazingdude, everyone seems to agree that a network of scientists, some paid by the government, some not, agree that climate change is real, man-made, and ultimately harmful to our environment as massive quantities of sequestered carbon is released back into the atmosphere.
3279
3280amazingdude, however, is convinced that peer-reviewed and government research is all inherently bogus.
3281So here's my assessment: amazingdude, if he's not a troll (which I really think he is, based off of the fact that he keeps repeating the same things, as long as he gets a reaction), then he ardently believes in something that literally cannot be proved as society is today, as it questions the very system we use to actually prove things scientifically. Everyone else leans on experts, studies, and other supported facts to support their claims. As such, the argument is at an impasse where one person is basing their arguments on an entirely unprovable set of beliefs, while the world is backed by, well, the world. So long as amazingdude chooses not to believe "Big Science," this debate will never end until one party drops it. If this were a formal debate, we'd have a time limit and a judge to look at the facts laid out and choose a winner, but since it isn't, this will never end, as coming to an agreement is apparently impossible. 
3282
3283My recommendation? Ignore amazingdude. Everyone. I appreciate you doing the right thing and supporting science, but we're just spinning our wheels as it is now. I was going to just let this peter out, but some "Guy" spurred me to action by crossing the line and attacking amazindude ad hominem by posting his info, which is just wrong, no matter the person. This debate is now dangerous. I urge both sides to drop it. And speaking specifically to amazingdude, you literally cannot make a comprehensive argument out of something not backed by actual facts. You are allowed an opinion, sure, in America we're allowed to have them, but you shouldn't force your opinion on others without concrete evidence. What I'm saying is that you won't be able to convince everyone, so you can sit back and stop wasting your time. If everyone needs something to talk about, you guys can pick something more disputed, like policy proposals or somesuch. I just urge you all to drop this before more people's personal lives get pulled into the limelight that is the internet.
3284
3285
3286++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3287
3288Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/10 11:54
3289
3290And Dracobot, you make a good point. It's cool that anyone looking at this board can learn about the reality of climate change (that it is harmful, before a certain dude tries to twist my words). I'm just frustrated at everyone being led around in circles from incessant "I know you are but what am I" type comments.
3291
3292==================================================
3293
3294Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/10 12:30
3295
3296@Dracobot (and I guess everybody who likes Meowbin)
3297Electrashave told me that she started remaking Meowbin from scratch and will add new features, such as accounts (which in turn allows paste editing). I'm not too sure when that'll be finished, but Meowbin will be a whole lot fancier soon, so stay tuned.
3298She's also creating a text editor app. I've used the prototype, and honestly, it's not half bad.
3299
3300==================================================
3301
3302amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/10 17:51
3303
3304https://pastebin.com/1kAUUSVx
3305
3306@TK
3307Kinda hard to remain in power if everyone hates you. This has happened many times in history.
3308 
3309@Poofle
3310Please learn how to pastebin. Anyway, these are my honest beliefs. I'm not a troll. You cant win a debate with false facts. Their facts are supported by garbage, which makes their facts garbage. Yes, I am glad people can learn the truth of climate change (from me).
3311 
3312@Vidkunssonn
3313Hmm... "The mass of all the co2 in the atmosphere is 2*10^15 kilograms. The mass of all the oceans are 1.4*10^21 kilograms. Thats like saying 1 gram of CO2 is gonna turn 700kg of water into acid, which is phsycially impossible. There is not enough CO2 on earth to turn the oceans into acid. Are you fucking brain dead?"
3314 
3315@T&W
3316Thank you for attempting to prove your claim. However that picture does not necessarily prove pollution. It could easily be natural fog or clouds, since the street appears to be wet. Perhaps rain? Is it like that every day, or was today just a one off? Does the air smell like crap? It could very well be pollution or a "western media fog machine", or maybe just fog, but we'll need more proof to tell for sure. Still a good start, and I credit you with it and will be a bit more open to it.
3317 
3318@Dracobot
3319I'm not a troll, these are my real beliefs, in case any other lurkers dont know. Last one was more of politics as a whole than just guns, but yes, I am very pro gun and pro trump. I come on here because I like to argue. Arguments on here involve more people and last much longer than Reddit arguments. I did used to play the games, but not anymore (TPT is better).
3320
3321==================================================
3322
3323Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/11 00:48
3324
3325That's Liberalist rhetoric, traditionally reserved for democracies- autocrats use Realpolitik. Kill or imprison enough dissidents and eventually there'll stop being dissidents to kill or imprison, just like good old Joseph Stalin.
3326
3327==================================================
3328
3329amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/11 15:24
3330
3331@TK
3332Every country that did that has collapsed or is about to (NK). Name me a country that still exists that has succeeded like that, and is not going to collapse in 5 years.
3333
3334==================================================
3335
3336Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/12 00:40
3337
3338Statistically speaking, liberalist democracies collapse even faster.
3339North Korea itself has been due to collapse in 5 years for about 60 years now.
3340
3341the point I'm making is that an eventual collapse is inevitable and doesn't factor into decisions much. Especially not when a show of force is historically proven to stabilize internal pressures over many centuries until external pressure is also applied.
3342
3343==================================================
3344
3345amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/12 14:31
3346
3347Huh, everyone surrendered.
3348
3349@TK
3350This has gone quite off topic.
3351
3352==================================================
3353
3354Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/12 23:52
3355
3356I'm curious. Are you skeptical about other science-backed conspiracies such as how fracking increases earthquake activity?
3357
3358==================================================
3359
3360amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/13 03:53
3361
3362@Dracobot
3363I am pro fracking. Yes, it causes earthquakes, but so does coal mining and alot of other stuff, and what it does cause is magnitude 2 or less, which are harmless.
3364
3365==================================================
3366
3367tauss					#AHnQiTFf 2017/07/13 04:28
3368
3369@amazingdude
3370Fracking, however, can pollute ground water and be detrimental to the life surrounding it.
3371
3372==================================================
3373
3374alan511234				#pf6n5mgO 2017/07/13 04:30
3375
3376Youre all stupid liberals! 
3377
3378==================================================
3379
3380Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/13 06:19
3381
3382@tauss
3383I don't know if you were around for it, but we've been over that and amazingdude doesn't care about the general welfare of the biosphere won't be swayed by anything that doesn't directly affect human civilization.
3384
3385@amazingdude
3386How is it off-topic? As Poofle said earlier there's just no point in addressing GCC directly because we both distrust the sources that the other sides rely on. I noticed that back when you said NASA was being bribed, so the logical course of continuing this would be for you to bring out whatever made you believe there's a world government controlling everything and for me to point out that the international stage seems just as Might-makes-Right-ish as it was when the British Empire was the hegemonic power making up the rules for everyone else.
3387
3388==================================================
3389
3390Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/13 08:33
3391
3392@amazingdude
3393Nah, not gone yet. Being on holiday means I'm both busy and tired. The haze in the picture is definitely not fog. It was taken at 3pm in the afternoon at a temperature of 34 degrees Celsius or ninetysomething Fahrenheit, as is the norm for China at this time of year. I believe there was a short spell of rain just beforehand. It is definitely possible that whatever pollution is accentuated by low-lying clouds, but that does not account for the entire problem. And yes, the weather is typical of China at this time, when it is both hot and humid, with heavy but intermittent rain. The air in China doesn't typically smell bad, but that is because people breathe constantly. There is a noticable difference in air quality if you compare it to the French countryside. I'll send more pictures soon. 
3394
3395==================================================
3396
3397amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/13 11:33
3398
3399@Tauss
3400Thats not the fracking thats causing it. That's the already existing natural gas. The gas already in the ground is seeping out and into the soil. Completely unrelated to the fracking process.
3401
3402@TK
3403Correct.
3404Look I dont know how all the world governments work. Thats not related to AGW.
3405
3406@T&W
3407Just looks like clouds to me. Yes, there is some pollution, but its not the blinding killer fog the media portrays it.
3408
3409==================================================
3410
3411Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/15 05:22
3412
3413Well as I was saying before, the current value science of money wouldn't apply to a blatantly tyrannical world government, because they can just set the pricing of everything themselves. If there's only one government, then there's only one currency, and therefore nothing to compare it to that would cause inflation. This is also why a propaganda scheme to fill their pockets doesn't make any sense- they already own everything, those bits of paper are only given value by themselves. A better use of propaganda would be to encourage an almost fanatical support for globalism and to paint themselves as the reason the peace that naturally results when there's nobody left to war with.
3414
3415==================================================
3416
3417amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/15 09:11
3418
3419@TK
3420So, you're saying that they dont need to fake the science? wtf?
3421
3422==================================================
3423
3424Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/15 10:53
3425
3426I've been saying that, yes. Total control makes most economic concerns moot, all they really have to worry about at that point is e.xtracting and refining as much useful material as they can- a goal which you might have noticed is in direct opposition to environmentalist rhetoric.
3427
3428==================================================
3429
3430amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/16 15:40
3431
3432I win the debate?
3433
3434==================================================
3435
3436skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/16 16:01
3437
3438AD, just because people get tired of talking to you doesn't mean you win. You're either right or wrong, and nothing anyone else says or doesn't say is going to change how well your beliefs reflect reality. I could have a "debate" where I just repeat "the Earth is a cube" until everyone else leaves, but that doesn't mean I "won".
3439
3440==================================================
3441
3442Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/16 16:57
3443
3444Plus he didn't even try to defend my assertion that both of his conspiracy theories actively work against the other's credibility. So even by the "you're not talking so I win" rules he still doesn't win.
3445
3446==================================================
3447
3448Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/16 21:51
3449
3450@amazingdude
3451From what I've read, I don't think the media even portray it that way. They're more focused on what China is doing to reduce pollution from what I can see. 
3452
3453==================================================
3454
3455amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/17 12:42
3456
3457@Skyk
3458I'm right. And I have been affected by this debate positively. I once believed nuclear was evil, but I now believe it is good. I also got a chance to research deeper into the global warming truth. My beliefs reflect reality more now than 3 months ago.
3459
3460@TK
3461You stopped making since once you drifted away from debating climate change.
3462
3463@T&W
3464The media reports about killer fog that you cant see more than 5 feet ahead. That is what I mean by the media manipulation.
3465
3466==================================================
3467
3468Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/17 13:25
3469
3470At this point, I'm almost 94% certain AD doesn't actually believe a single word he says, because he puts 0% of his effort into defending any of it beyond the casual "I'm right, you're wrong" types of statements. 77% of that 94% believes he's just doing this shit for the explicit purpose of making the board active again. 16% of it believes he's just doing it for the lols. The remaining 1% believes this is his fetish.
3471
3472==================================================
3473
3474Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/17 18:00
3475
3476What's not to get? Either there's a world government that doesn't benefit from spreading lies about a climate phenomena or there's a science community being bribed by nobody for no reason. Or is it that there's a group competent enough to take over the world yet incompetent enough to bungle everything after that?
3477
3478==================================================
3479
3480amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/18 04:57
3481
3482@Vidkunssonn
3483I'm serious, I'm just tired of repeating myself because you idiots dont believe me. If anyone here is gonna survive a zombie apocalypse, its all of you, because the zombies wont smell any brains.
3484
3485@TK
3486You've lost all sense.
3487
3488==================================================
3489
3490Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/18 06:13
3491
3492@amazingdude: 
3493It's just what you've described to me filtered through what I know about history and political machinations. I can't help that everything you've been saying sounds ridiculous when applied to existing tactics.
3494
3495@tauss: 
3496Nah, I just said the first non-blood-goddy noun I could think of. Like that cult in Romantically Apocalyptic that worships the ingredients list of a juice box.
3497
3498==================================================
3499
3500Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/18 06:50
3501
3502@amazingdude
3503You may be thinking that less-obvious things are obvious. We all think differently, and clearly they have yet to see it the way you do. Try to explain it again or don't, it just might be something different than "stupidity" at play.
3504This also goes for the other side, just saying.
3505
3506==================================================
3507
3508Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/18 13:02
3509
3510I understand everything he's saying; it just isn't true. When forming his opinions, he doesn't factor in 75% of the science that affects what he's forming his opinion of.
3511
3512==================================================
3513
3514hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/19 06:59
3515
3516There hasn't been a statement in the argument for at least 12 hours, lets hope this is the end of the argument, this thing has been going on for almost two months now
3517
3518==================================================
3519
3520amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/19 07:36
3521
3522@Vidkunssonn
3523I factored in science. I chose my viewpoint based on the information I could find. I base my beliefs on science.
3524
3525@hotdogeater
3526never
3527
3528@Dracobot
3529Well you guys think wrong. If i havent convinved you yet, I never will.
3530
3531==================================================
3532
3533Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/19 08:02
3534
3535The deate on EE went for over 8 years and covered like 40 topics, I'm hoping we can break that record.
3536
3537==================================================
3538
3539Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/19 08:50
3540
3541Do you think it's more humiliating for Amazingdude to fail at pretending to be a 25 year old or to a speak and act like a child at the age of 25?
3542
3543@amazingdude
3544As I've said before, western media play no part in polluting China. Western media stays in the west and Chinese pollution (mostly) stays in China. What evidence do YOU have, whether it's statistics, reports or photographs, that western media exaggerate their claims? And why is that even relevant when China faces problems with pollution anyway?
3545
3546==================================================
3547
3548tauss					#5pWYfzbu 2017/07/19 09:18
3549
3550@Torture King
3551...*facepalm*... Please. Do something useful in your life, spending a decade debating on Japanese game website is most likely detrimental.
3552
3553==================================================
3554
3555Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/19 09:59
3556
3557https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=35f9h48d00
3558
3559@tauss
3560I doubt this is the most useful thing he does with his life.
3561
3562@T&W
3563Well, to be less than 25 and to pretend to be 25 is something to be expected of people who don't want to appear as children on the internet. A lot of people think that being young is a curse and therefore do whatever they can to seem less young to those who can't figure out the truth.
3564To be 25 and act younger is just plain creepy, unless it isn't intentional, which means the person is just immature and stupid.
3565
3566@amazingdude
3567Yes, you do use science. That is a true fact. However, you do not use all the science that matters (or you just ignore it because it goes against your point). For example, the carbonifying of the oceans: you do take into account that if all the carbon in the atmosphere were to be absorbed by the ocean and spread out equally, the effect on the ocean will not be enough for anything to be affected. However, that is not the case. You fail to take into consideration the laws of dilution in the air and the ocean. Tell me, what is the likelyhood that a single carbon dioxide molecule would be able to get from a coal plant in China to the bottom of the Marianas Trench within the next 5 years? Sounds ridiculous, does it not? That idea is what you're arguing for, and the truth of the matter is is that a carbon dioxide molecule wouldn't go 2% of that distance in 5 years if traveling by air and ocean currents alone. Dilution is a slow, slow process if left to be done naturally; so, yes, TK's claim that carbon acidifies the ocean and hurts shellfish populations is accurate because the carbon builds up in the beaches near large carbon emissions because it doesn't spread throughout the ocean equally at a fast enough rate for the shellfish to be unaffected.
3568
3569Another group of people who don't consider all the science important to their claims are the Flat Earthers. Just bring up light diffraction in the atmosphere when they start talking about the curvature of the earth and pictures of buildings or mountains and they'll get pissy.
3570
3571==================================================
3572
3573Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/19 12:12
3574
3575@amazingdude
3576You may not be good at explaining your beliefs to people who don't share your point of view. Maybe there's a different way to explain it that you haven't tried yet. And you can't say that you know there isn't unless you actually prove it in some way.
3577
3578@hotdogeater1000
3579I know, isn't it beautiful? I've always liked large-scale arguments. Unfortunately, the best ones occurred such a long time ago that TK is the only one still around to tell tales.
3580
3581==================================================
3582
3583amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/19 13:03
3584
3585@TK
3586What debate? What topics? Ive never been to the EE board so IDK.
3587
3588@T&W
3589I am 25. How do you want me to prove it?
3590https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/View_of_Beijing.jpg
3591I dont see any pollution.
3592
3593@Vidkunssonn
3594Carbonated water is heavier than non carbonated water, so it sinks and fresh water takes its place, to get carbonfied and sink, and it continues. Its called convection. The water gets so diluted that all the carbon on earth would only make the ocean 0.000001% more acidic. More ocean CO2 = more food for sea plants = more O2 for sea animals. You cant lose.
3595
3596@Dracobot
3597You cant fix stupid. I've linked videos, articles, etc and you never catch on.
3598
3599==================================================
3600
3601Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/19 16:54
3602
3603What deb- wha-? Why, THE GREAT DEBATE, of course! One of the few things with its own page on the Dan-Ball wiki that wasn't authored by ha55ii.
3604It covered basically everything, but sadly I only have the first ~100 pages documented by SandMaster and the tail end of it that has yet to be swallowed by the 1000 post limit. Fortunately, SandMaster made another megapost that I either lost or didn't get in the first place, and I think kyoto made another one before he was deployed to Afganistan- so there's still a trickle of hope of recovering more of it.
3605
3606https://pastebin.com/bWZDxDv1
3607https://pastebin.com/kk8p0ikE
3608
3609==================================================
3610
3611Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/19 19:12
3612
3613https://pastebin.com/1gBZkWsD
3614
3615@TK
3616I remember looking on the EE comment section and seeing that debate. I tried to find the beginning and then I was just like...nope.
3617 
3618@Amazingdude
3619You sure talk and act like a child:
3620"Well you guys think wrong."
3621"We should relocate people who are in flood zones to less-floody areas."
3622"Wheres your evicence boii?"
3623 
3624Seriously, I haven't seen anybody beyond the age of 14 speak like this unironically.
3625 
3626Firstly, not all pollution can be seen, particularly not other forms of pollution, such as land and water pollution. Anyway, we are talking about air pollution as of now. Particulates and gases do not have to be seen to cause harm. Of course, when it does become visible, the problem is much, much worse. You can, in fact, see some haze in the background, haze that is not visible over, say, the French countryside. Image by yours truly. http://imgur.com/a/lWTPU
3627 
3628That image you posted was taken for the purposes of photography to display on the internet. Therefore, the image of a clear Beijing skyline would not have been uploaded onto the internet had it been taken on a day when the conditions been different, because that would make the photo less attractive. This, among other factors, is why there appears to be pictures of clearer skies above Beijing. Furthermore, your image is limited by a time and location owing to the purpose that it was taken. Therefore my photographs could be considered more accurate because they're intended for private use and are not designed to show a specific condition or phenomenon. (Before you object, I simply asked my friend to send me a picture of the weather in China that day, and mentioned nothing of pollution.) I will upload more China images upon request. {He never did}
3629
3630==================================================
3631
3632amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/20 09:34
3633
3634https://pastebin.com/ARPVHn4W
3635
3636I'll make a deal for you guys. Make a non biased page about this debate on the danball wiki, and I will leave this debate, on the condition that the page stays up. If it goes down, I will come back.
3637 
3638@TK
3639I never visit the EE boards.
3640 
3641@T@W
3642I'm not a child. I'm 25 ffs.
3643 
3644You're just contradicting yourself. You say that these cites are fogged to deah, yet you say they dont have to be. You're backtracking and covering for the hoax. That image of the french countryside shows just that: No pollution.
3645 
3646Clear beijing = no pollution. How could a city be clear some days and blind on others? Makes no sense.
3647 
3648==================================================
3649
3650Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/20 16:56
3651
3652@amazingdude
3653"Carbonated water is heavier than non carbonated water, so it sinks and fresh water takes its place, to get carbonfied and sink, and it continues."
3654
3655Again, this only happens in the shallow oceans near beaches near large carbon emissions. It still takes a decent amount of time for it to dilute to areas where the sea floor is 20+ ft below the ocean surface; not enough time to not negatively affect shellfish.
3656
3657"You cant fix stupid."
3658That is false. Stupid fixes itself.
3659
3660==================================================
3661
3662Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/21 03:18
3663
3664https://pastebin.com/CQJQHwAF
3665
3666@Amazingdude
3667I don't care whether or not you're 25, because you don't act that way regardless. A 25 normal year old would not have taken part in an such as this argument. They'd have won it convincingly even if they did. The only conclusions I can draw is either that you're either subpar for a 25 year old, have some kind of mental disorder or you are faking your age (or a combination of the above).
3668 
3669I have never said anything about 'cities being fogged to death'. I challenge you to find such a quote and present it against me. And look here at a comparison between the horizon in France and the horizon in China. http://imgur.com/a/yBqdb If you were wondering, the horizon isn't where the row of buildings stop. It's where the dark meets the slightly lighter sky.
3670 
3671"How could a city be clear some days and blind on others? Makes no sense."
3672You fail to recognise the most basic concept: that a year has 365 days and each day has 24 hours, and so forth. How can Beijing be 41 degrees one day and -27 on others? Oh yeah, the weather and seasons exists. Time passes. Conditions are constantly changing, hour upon hour. Wind, rain, dust, industrial output, government regulations all play into effect. If you take readings for pollution in China, you end up with a bell-shaped curve. Furthermore, the picture was taken on June 12th, 2012. The Dragonboat Festival, a major traditional Chinese festival, happened on the 13th. There are guidelines factories have to follow in the weeks around dates like these. Industrial output is decreased to make cities more attractive in preparation for the festival. In other words, the government was trying to reduce pollution to make China seem more attractive.
3673
3674==================================================
3675
3676amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/21 04:45
3677
3678@Vidkunssonn
3679So your saying that heavier water floats on lighter water if the ocean is too deep? Please stop making an ass out of yourself.
3680
3681@T&W
3682I am a mentally healthy 25 year old with an IQ of 113 (I actually had this tested and will submit proof upon request). I will also willing to prove my age. You dont want me to prove im 25 because you want to think im stupid so you can feel better about yourselves after being embarassed for falling into a government hoax.
3683
3684China was foggy that day. That crap in the air in the china picture is fog.
3685So pollution changes each day because some people choose not to drive some days and factories out out less output just because? HAHAHAHAHA. Alarmist covering his ass. Goverment was forced to reduce pollution by the western media who only wants to propagate their green energy crap.
3686
3687==================================================
3688
3689Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/21 06:19
3690
3691Are you taking the density of seawater into account for that? Because I've been googling for like an hour and everything that supports your claim uses freshwater. (Experiments using seawater are apparently so rare that they might not exist yet.)
3692Another issue is how *much* heavier than the sea is the carbonated saltwater? If it's a negligible difference then you can't really expect it to sink like a stone when exposed to the various waves and currents present in the wild. It'd get tossed and spread all over the place like slightly-heavier-than-air gasses do on land.
3693
3694The government hoax that as of yet doesn't have a logical motive? Yeah, we're absolute morons for not believing that the moment you claimed it.
3695
3696==================================================
3697
3698Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/21 06:44
3699
3700@amazingdude
3701Your IQ does not make you more mature, nor does it make you superior to me. Honestly, you're just embarrassing yourself now. I'm getting less and less convinced of the veracity of your claims the every single time you post. If you're willing to prove your age, just do it already. I have never said that I don't want you to prove it and you accusing me merely detracts any substance from your claim.
3702
3703'China was foggy that day'. Nope, it really wasn't. The picture was taken June 12th, at 4:06pm. The average temperature that day was approximately 30 degrees, with no precipitation. Optimal time and conditions for fog, of course.
3704
3705You say 'factories output less just because'. Can you even read? I gave the answer. I have read an entire booklet published by the government listing guidelines, regulations and quotas on this subject.
3706
3707Do you have any evidence for this 'cover up'? If western media is so powerful, why on earth does China manage to ban access to it inside China and limit reporting privileges, severely restricting a massive source of potential revenue? China doesn't give a toss to what the public in the West thinks, and it never has.
3708
3709By the way, I'm still awaiting your response to my challenge.
3710
3711==================================================
3712
3713Omega16					#MSw1YwXA 2017/07/21 10:35
3714
3715I seriously wonder why you guys keep going for the bait...
3716
3717==================================================
3718
3719Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/21 12:52
3720
3721@amazingdude
3722Nigga, I have an IQ of 152. Proof:
3723http://www.myiqtested.com/IQ-Report?x=sIQx3x6308389-3198639xs4hj2x1
3724Taken about 9 months ago.
3725
3726"So your saying that heavier water floats on lighter water if the ocean is too deep?"
3727No, that is not what I'm saying at all, you fucking dumbass. If your IQ really was 113 (probably lower, closer to the age you proclaim to be), you'd understand that I'm saying that the carbon doesn't dilute to the deep ocean, it stays in the shallows. YOU are the one making an ass out of yourself because you can't comprehend simple statements; and on top of that, every time it happens, you start spouting nonsense shit to try to push it off like it isn't your fault you're too stupid to understand it. Just stop it. We get it: you're too proud to admit the obvious stupidity you bare. 
3728
3729==================================================
3730
3731hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/21 14:15
3732
3733C02 is actually one of the more minor worries of pollution. The main reason coal isn't used as much anymore is partly to blame in 1952 when 12000 people were killed in a really bad smog that lasted five days. Sulfur dioxide is considered toxic and it smells bad. According to the NFPA 704, its a 3 on the health scale, meaning that short exposure could cause serious temporary or moderate residual injury. Carbon monoxide, another part of pollution from coal, is also a 3 on health as well as a 4 in flammability. If you add together sulfur dioxide and water you get a weak acid, however in the upper atmosphere where cloud formation occurs, it can become sulfur trioxide as UV catalyzes a reaction between sulfur dioxide and oxygen. This can go on to react with water vapor and become sulfuric acid, which is why sulfur dioxide can make acid rain occur. Oh, and apparently that comes from oil too. Thats why I prefer nuclear energy.
3734
3735==================================================
3736
3737amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/21 16:42
3738
3739https://pastebin.com/pt8vRQRY
3740
3741@TK
3742From what I can gather, carbonated water is denser than seawater enough to sink and cause convection to occur in the oceans, thouroughly mixing carbon into the ocean.
3743 
3744@T&W
3745Higher IQ = higher intelligence. IQ IS a measure of intelligence. Its no use to prove it because you fools still wont believe me. What challenge do you want me to complete?
3746 
374730 degrees is below freezing. It is actually better for fog as it forms better in colder weather, because water droplets will condense easier.
3748 
3749They produce less because their government makes them produce less. What more is there to this?
3750 
3751Because China knows that global warming is not real and are resisting temptaion from the media to fall under their control. In fact, they made it all up and sent it to the environmentards and they believe that crap and eventually it got to the western governments. They did this to make manufacturing less competetive. I'm so thankful that the president is smart enough to not only know the truth but why people believe the fake. This is why China bans western media, they dont want their people falling to the enviornmentards.
3752 
3753@omega
3754Its not bait, its debate, and yall fools are getting DEMOLISHED. End of story.
3755 
3756@Vidkunssonn
3757I had a psychological exam 16 years ago. My IQ was measured at 113, and I was 4 grade levels above average. My reading level was above the 11th grade. I was in third grade at the time. I have always been the smartest kid in class, and I graduated high school with a 3.8 in all AP classes. I took enviornmental science in college and biology in high school and got A's in both of them. I know damn right what I'm talking about. When I find the documents, I will show them and prove you wrong.
3758 
3759@Hotdogeater
3760SO2, CO, sulfuric acid, SO3 and all that crap is purely made up by enviornmentards to make coal seem like the devil. I'll just tell you this: What else can be used as a cheap, plentiful, reliable energy source for hundreds of years that helps tens of billions of people over the course of its use and is the reason we are alive? Exactly. Oil and coal are the best energy sources, and will continue to be for centuries to come. Nuclear and hydro are also decent options but not as useful as coal and oil. Dont even get me started on wind and solar, hahaha that is a joke.
3761
3762==================================================
3763
3764Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/21 17:01
3765
3766@amazingdude
3767"30 degrees is below freezing." Celsius, you dilhole.
3768
3769Also, proving that your IQ was 113 sixteen years ago will disprove my claim on carbon dilution in the ocean? You're also saying that acid rain is a myth.
3770TK, should we continue on with this ape?
3771
3772==================================================
3773
3774Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/21 18:52
3775
3776I didn't mention it before, but listening to people explain their conspiracy theories/superstitions is my 6th most socially accepted hobby. I consider it a subset of my folklore studies.
3777
3778So I'll probably stick around for at least another week or so- depending on whether he feels like divulging anymore on this mysterious world government that's actively working against it's own power acquisition.
3779
3780==================================================
3781
3782Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/21 22:32
3783
3784https://pastebin.com/JhwVHqkq
3785
3786@Amazingdude
3787Nowhere have I said that your IQ does not make you more intelligent. I say that your IQ does not make you more mature, more knowledgeable, better at debating or superior to me in this relevant discussion. If you were any of those things, this debate would not have happened, and if it did, you'd probably have won by now. I'm not sure if you're deliberately reading/interpreting my statements in the wrong way for your own advantage, being extremely arrogant, or you're just being stupid and do not know how to read. You really need to get your act together. Same for the 30 degrees statement. Beijing, in the middle of summer, at that temperature? Tf is wrong with your logical processes?
3788 
3789'They produce less because their government makes them produce less. What more is there to this?'
3790That is literally what I have been saying. What is your point?
3791 
3792So now you're saying that China has power over western media, rather than what you said last time, that the western media exerts control over China. Are you sure you're not making this up as you go along? Do you have any evidence at all for what you're saying? Scientists have been producing theories about global warming and climate change since the 1940s. China, in 1940, barely existed as an entity. Theories relating to global warming caught on in the 1980s. It wasn't only until the early 2000s when China began its rapid ascension. China only fully erected its firewall, as we know it today, in 2005. A quarter of a century passed between global warming becoming mainstream and China fully censoring the internet. Nobody in 1940, or even 1990, could even comprehend how successful China would become today.  In other words, the dates do not make sense. Your argument is only valid if the Chinese had a centuries-old masterplan for world domination that somehow perfectly predicted the Allied victory in WWII, the Communist victory in China, the onset of the Cold War, the collapse of the USSR and everything that happened in between.
3793
3794==================================================
3795
3796amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/22 14:34
3797
3798@T&W
3799You're the one being arrogant making shit up instead of researching facts. I won 7 weeks ago, after debunking NASA. That was the last nail in the coffin for this debate.
3800
3801Yes. YOU said beijing is 30 degrees in the summer. Thats below freezing, making fog a very decent possibility. The government tells them to produce less to tell the western media that they reduced pollution that wasnt even there. Once again, going full TK by contradicting yourself millions of time. Get a grasp on debate instead of just resorting to "muh conspiracy lizard people"
3802
3803==================================================
3804
3805Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/22 17:01
3806
3807When did I contradict myself? Are you talking about when I entertained the idea of a world government faking out the planet for a quick buck and then explained to you exactly why no existing empire would ever do that outside of a Marvel comic? Or was it something else?
3808
3809==================================================
3810
3811Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/23 01:10
3812
3813At this point, he's just making up events about this debate that never really happened just so he doesn't have to counter-argue against us. He still doesn't even know about the existence of Celsius and is trying to use that false reality without it against T&W. Saddening that there are these kinds of people in our society.
3814
3815==================================================
3816
3817amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/23 04:33
3818
3819@TK
3820When you said theres a giant conspiracy, then said there wasnt.
3821
3822@Vidkunssonn
3823It did happen. I do know celsius, but T&W didnt specify which scale so I assumed Fahrenheit. YOU are the saddening person in society.
3824
3825==================================================
3826
3827Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/23 05:48
3828
3829"The mark of an intelligent man is the ability to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
3830That's not a contradiction, that's getting the full picture that you're trying to sell so I can dismantle the idea as efficiently as possible.
3831
3832==================================================
3833
3834Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/23 05:59
3835
3836@Amazingdude
3837You should have known perfectly well it was in Celsius. China uses Celsius, as does almost every other country in the world. If you had any logic, geographical or general knowledge at all you'd have known I must have been talking about Celsius. Vidkunssonn even explicitly said it was Celsius.
3838
3839"Once again, going full TK by contradicting yourself millions of time. Get a grasp on debate instead of just resorting to "muh conspiracy lizard people"
3840
3841"You're the one being arrogant making shit up instead of researching facts. I won 7 weeks ago, after debunking NASA. That was the last nail in the coffin for this debate."
3842
3843Can you actually highlight specifically where I've done that instead of making accusations? Knowing what you're trying to say might help move the debate forwards. 
3844
3845==================================================
3846
3847001						#6k5YbvYF 2017/07/23 09:18
3848
3849watch AD defend the KKK!
3850
3851reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/6oxzbe/unpopular_opinion_thread/dkl2uto/
3852
3853==================================================
3854
3855OmegaPirate				#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/23 10:32
3856
3857The Ku Klux Klan was why World War II existed.
3858Just edit a few minor things and you might get the picture here.
3859
3860==================================================
3861
3862skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/23 12:19
3863
3864If "amazing"dude is 25, why is he always posting in /r/teenagers? 
3865
3866==================================================
3867
3868amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/23 14:54
3869
3870https://pastebin.com/SAKeGLB1
3871
3872@T&W
3873 
3874How should I know they use celsius by default? I'm not chinese.
3875 
3876This {is when you contradict yourself}. "So now you're saying that China has power over western media, rather than what you said last time, that the western media exerts control over China. Are you sure you're not making this up as you go along? Do you have any evidence at all for what you're saying? Scientists have been producing theories about global warming and climate change since the 1940s. China, in 1940, barely existed as an entity. Theories relating to global warming caught on in the 1980s. It wasn't only until the early 2000s when China began its rapid ascension. China only fully erected its firewall, as we know it today, in 2005. A quarter of a century passed between global warming becoming mainstream and China fully censoring the internet. Nobody in 1940, or even 1990, could even comprehend how successful China would become today.  In other words, the dates do not make sense. Your argument is only valid if the Chinese had a centuries-old masterplan for world domination that somehow perfectly predicted the Allied victory in WWII, the Communist victory in China, the onset of the Cold War, the collapse of the USSR and everything that happened in between."
3877 
3878@001
3879Thats not me, IDK why everyone thinks thats me. Also if you read the rest of that thread and his comments you can clearly tell that killa-byte is too stupid to be me. Just read that entire thread and tell me thats me. lol.
3880 
3881@Omega
3882Your getting the KKK and the nazis mixed up.
3883 
3884@Skyk
3885I dont post in that subreddit. That isnt my reddit account.
3886
3887==================================================
3888
3889Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/23 15:24
3890
3891There are literally five countries that still officially use Fahrenheit and the others are all tiny islands.
3892
3893==================================================
3894
3895Omega16					#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/24 00:30
3896
3897@AD
3898I did say edit a few things, didn't I?
3899Replace the KKK with Nazis.
3900Replace blacks with Jews.
3901Alter the KKK symbol some.
3902
3903To be fair, they both do the same thing, and both their morals of getting rid of their minority enemies were based off of Jackson telling the Supreme Court to go fuck itself.
3904
3905==================================================
3906
3907skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/24 02:09
3908
3909AD, do you really expect us to believe that you just happen to have the *exact* same ideas as Killa-Byte when it comes to climate change, down to suggesting Siberian colonies within the same two days?
3910
3911==================================================
3912
3913amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/24 05:53
3914
3915@TK
3916Fahrenheit is the better scale for everyday use and weather. Fahrenheit is based off of the lowest and hottest temperature in a certain town, but celsius is based on water. Why use a scale meant for water to measure air temps?
3917
3918@Omega
3919Finally at least someone is right.
3920
3921@Skyk
3922More and more people are waking up to the truth about climate change, and killa-byte is one of them. Also, can you prove we both suggested colonizing siberia within 2 days? Show posts.
3923
3924==================================================
3925
3926Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/24 06:27
3927
3928@Amazingdude
3929Ways of measuring temperatures, we can save for another debate. If you want, we can discuss it now. What TK is saying is that the majority of the world uses Celsius. You should know this and therefore Celsius is what you should expect when somebody talks about temperature, especially on an international comment board using information about a scientific topic. Anyway, logically, do you really think that Beijing would be that cold in June?
3930
3931I still don't understand what you're getting at. You haven't even said where I have supposedly contradicted myself or resorted to anything remotely like 'conspiracy lizard people'. You've just copy and pasted what I have previously said. 
3932
3933==================================================
3934
3935skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/24 06:40
3936
3937https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/6hq720/why_arent_people_talking_about_colonizing_siberia/
3938"People complain that some places are gonna flood, yet a warmer climate would make places like Canada and Siberia more habitable. Why arent people talking about this as a way to deal with climate change?"
3939
3940This was posted June 16th, one day after you posted the following on this comment board:
3941"While some areas of the world may be getting too hot, like Africa and south Asia, a much larger area is becoming more habitable, like siberia and Canada."
3942
3943==================================================
3944
3945herecomesmichael		#68cDLTHg 2017/07/25 00:19
3946
3947are you STILL arguing? come on, it's not that hard to just agree to disagree.
3948
3949==================================================
3950
3951Scythertom				#KB7dKrJB 2017/07/25 01:19
3952
3953Hey guys, will you please hurry up and get to the "ways of measuring temperature" debate? Because I have VERY strong opinions on this irrelevant topic. Thank you, have a nice day y'all.
3954
3955==================================================
3956
3957amazingdude				#N1hn3TpZ 2017/07/25 03:14
3958
3959Sorry guys I'm having personal problems atm but I will be able to debate soon.
3960
3961==================================================
3962
3963Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/25 04:43
3964
3965I bet that if we use his own "Oh, you wanna take a break? You lose the debate" tactic on him he's gonna lose his shit.
3966
3967Also,
3968https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/6dnx07/g7_leaders_blame_trump_for_failure_to_reach/di4p1zg/
3969This is almost word-for-word one of the things you've posted to Pastebin a while back:
3970
3971https://pastebin.com/T9bdpqNR
3972Don't even try to tell us that isn't you anymore.
3973
3974==================================================
3975
3976OmegaPirate				#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/25 06:34
3977
3978He's still gonna respond for debating. I know him a bit better than most others here.
3979
3980It's gonna keep going. Like playing chess with a pigeon. Or 4chan raiding random sites. Or a friend of mine petitioning to change Auschwitz to Jewrassic Park.
3981And in such cases, the result is the same. They'll get bored eventually.
3982
3983==================================================
3984
3985Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/25 08:33
3986
3987For a moment there I thought that was a new pastebin because he never changes the title on any of them.
3988
3989@Scythertom
3990Kelvin is best. Negative temperatures are an abomination.
3991
3992==================================================
3993
3994skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/25 09:05
3995
3996TK you're absolutely right about Kelvin. I once brought up Kelvin in an argument about F vs C, and was forcibly removed from the room and locked outside.
3997
3998==================================================
3999
4000Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/25 09:16
4001
4002Stay tuned. Scy's going to show us a pretty picture.
4003
4004Aren't we forgetting Rankine? And also Rømer, Réaumur, Newton, and Delisle. It's wonderful to learn new things on Wikipedia.
4005
4006==================================================
4007
4008Omega16					#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/25 13:06
4009
4010It's funny how Wikipedia is considered terrible and yet it has more info than anyone else could even imagine. Only problem is anonymity, but even then, it's getting cracked down more often there these days.
4011
4012==================================================
4013
4014Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/25 14:04
4015
4016https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/List
4017Some of these descriptions are hilarious, like there's seriously a guy out there who spends their days adding ceiling fans to random articles.
4018
4019==================================================
4020
4021Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/26 00:10
4022
4023I fully support the one guy who goes to every article he can and adds "And them's the facts" at the end of every one of them.
4024
4025==================================================
4026
4027Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/26 22:48
4028
402917 degrees Newton is defined to be the hottest temperature for which bath water is bearable when one sticks their hand in it and doesn't move it around.
4030
4031==================================================
4032
4033IFIDIE					#ZgslTFIx 2017/07/28 06:40
4034
4035Guys why are you all talking about science
4036
4037==================================================
4038
4039hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/28 08:13
4040
4041because the entire debate was centered around a science topic.
4042
4043==================================================
4044
4045Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/28 11:08
4046
4047Hey, you guys want to do the occasional 1000 post snapshot pastebin on the CBs? It's a shame that old posts get deleted or just become unretrievable. Earth Editor made one a while back, but he's nowhere to be found, surprisingly.
4048
4049==================================================
4050
4051skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/28 11:29
4052
4053What form would you want? A copy-paste of all the messages directly, or the page's source?
4054Here's either:
4055https://pastebin.com/SrDv1dS1
4056https://pastebin.com/n86aun68
4057
4058==================================================
4059
4060Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/28 13:56
4061
4062Oh wow, nothing that puts everything on one line, please. XD
4063Other than needing an extra enter between comments to enhance readability (which is understandably tedious), the first one looks good.
4064
4065==================================================
4066
4067amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/29 09:28
4068
4069https://pastebin.com/pPETxLq5
4070
4071Alright guys, I'm back. I'm sorry.
4072
4073@T&W, Scythertom
4074Let's do it now, then. Kelvin is best for science, Fahrenheit is best for weather, Celsius is best for liquids. Optimally, I think we all should use a 0-500 scale where 0 is absolute 0 and 500 is melting point of water. Its more precise, and eventually when K goes mainstream, future generations will be like "WHAT were they thinking! Water melts at 273.15K?", much like people shit on Fahrenheit. Kelvin is the best we have so far, it works, and I think we should all be using kelvin TBH. One scale for everything, not a different scale for common use (C) and another for science (K)
4075
4076@Skyk
4077Coincidence.
4078
4079@Vidkunssonn
4080I wont, as long as you PROMISE to come back. My case was unexpected and out of my hands. I apologize for the delay.
4081
4082Coincidence. We both have the same ideas, so of course our responses will be similar. I'll say it again: Killa-Byte is NOT me.
4083
4084@Omega
4085Thank you for telling everyone. No, I won't get bored.
4086
4087Wikipedia is not technically credible because anyone can edit it. I put a fake fact in the Windows XP article a few months back and its still there. It is quite reliable for basic knowledge, however, just not for research.
4088
4089@TK
4090I agree with you on Kelvin
4091
4092@Draco
4093Huh, TIL. Most of those are useless however.
4094
4095I'm doing backups of this myself. I cached the 1000 comments page 2 weeks ago. One of these days I'll make a neat pastebin. {Completed 2017-09-12}
4096
4097==================================================
4098
4099Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/29 10:26
4100
4101I'd use the word "influence" more than "cause" actually. Cause implies that humans are the only source of change, but the GCC argument has always been that we're just one major factor out of hundreds with varying degrees of magnitude. It's chaos theory, you can't introduce a variable like whether or not there's an industrialized civilization making changes to the atmosphere and expect there to be no changes to average weather patterns in the atmosphere.
4102
4103==================================================
4104
4105Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/29 10:57
4106
4107No, no, no. "Similar" is an understatement. Word-for-word copy-and-paste paragraph usage is not just "similar".
4108
4109"I think we all should use a 0-500 scale where 0 is absolute 0 and 500 is melting point of water."
4110That will put the boiling point of water at 683.049606443.
4111
4112Plus, converting the entire planet to the new system and getting used to it will take at least a decade. First, you have to convert every recorded temperature in history (the boiling point of Iron, the temperature of Pluto in the winter, etc.) from C or K or F to the new system. Then, you have to design or re-calibrate all the instruments that measure temperature to the new system (recall all thermometers on the planet to be destroyed/re-calibrated, then distribute the new thermometers and expect people to understand the new scale). Then, you have to re-calibrate every tool that is made to GET things to a certain temperature (ovens, refrigerators, etc.) to the new scale. THEN, you have to get everyone used to it.
4113
4114New System: Water boils at 683.05°, the average human body internal temperature is 567.73°, the core of the earth is approx. 11483°
4115VS
4116Celsius: Water boils at 100°, the average human body internal temperature is 37°, the core of the earth is approx. 6000°
4117
4118The idea is good in mind, but the reality is absurd. 
4119
4120==================================================
4121
4122Scythertom				#Fc8R9h2z 2017/07/29 11:02
4123
4124>Let's do it now, then. Kelvin is best for science, Fahrenheit is best for weather, Celsius is best for liquids
4125Basically what I was going to say
4126
4127==================================================
4128
4129amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/29 11:48
4130
4131@TK
4132The influence civilization has on the global climate is about the same as taking a shit in the ocean pollutes it: Nothing.
4133
4134@Vidkunssonn
4135We're arguing the same perspective, of course its gonna use the same wording. Who knows, killa-byte might browse this forum and steal all my arguments. I dont mind, hes spreading the truth.
4136
4137Well, you just destroyed my temperature claim. I have nothing left to support it. You win. However I still think Kelvin is superior, and we should move to Kelvin. Wouldnt be as hard as transitioning to 0-500 because Kelvin is already well established, and it uses the same units as Celsius. I dont have as strong feelings about this as climate change however, and never really thought about it. I do believe we would all be on one temperature scale for everything.
4138
4139@Scythertom
4140Great minds think alike.
4141
4142==================================================
4143
4144skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/29 12:08
4145
4146I'm sorry AD, but do you genuinely expect anyone to believe you and Killa-Byte aren't the same person? Both accounts use the exact same wording to make the exact same points, and share at least one subreddit, according to what you've said. At this point, the burden of proof is solidly on you, and if you really aren't KB, the only way I can think of you proving that would be to tell us your actual Reddit account name.
4147
4148==================================================
4149
4150Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/29 12:23
4151
4152I'm gonna laugh my ass off if he creates a new Reddit account for that.
4153
4154==================================================
4155
4156Jeff					#Rtf4XTMh 2017/07/29 12:48
4157
4158Amazingdude doesnt care about the enviornment? heh. What about the time they flooded a canyon with native american remains artivacts in it to make a lake?
4159
4160==================================================
4161
4162Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/31 02:12
4163
4164That argument might have made more sense if we weren't currently sitting at 2/3 of the total projected human population that Earth can support. The atmosphere is pretty huge itself, but we're going to be hitting the limits of how much we can safely strain it fairly quickly.
4165
4166==================================================
4167
4168hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/31 07:11
4169
4170Oh yay the arguments back. This board was sorta bland without it.
4171
4172================================================== {Topic shift 1}
4173
4174amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/31 10:01
4175
4176@Skyk
4177I dont use Reddit though, I dont have an account. Also, me and killa-byte have the same beliefs, so obviously we're going to use the same words to express them. Who knows, maybe he browses this forum and rips my arguments to spread the truth. Fine with me.
4178
4179@TK
4180Earth can theoretically support 40+ billion people. If all the plants on earth died, we'd have 2500 years of O2 left. The earth is just fine, and will be for a while.
4181
4182==================================================
4183
4184hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/31 11:57
4185
4186If all plants on earth died we would all starve to death.
4187
4188==================================================
4189
4190Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/31 13:18
4191
4192https://www.livescience.com/16493-people-planet-earth-support.html
4193https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130404072923.htm
4194
4195What source do you have for your 40 billion statistic? I can't find any more optimistic than 16 billion.
4196
4197==================================================
4198
4199Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/31 22:59
4200
4201We have too many people as it is, there's no way in hell I'd allow 40 billion people on this planet.
4202
4203==================================================
4204
4205Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/01 00:24
4206
4207Ooh, this reminds me of a discussion question I came up with a while ago.
4208If we face *severe* overpopulation, would it be a good decision to legalize a mass murder event (so we would get rid of major criminals, homeless people, etc.), or should we keep it going despite everyone's suffering?
4209
4210Personally I would normally discourage even the death penalty, but it's tricky when the world would benefit greatly from it. Plus, a large chunk of the population would probably die from an inevitable disease or something.
4211
4212==================================================
4213
4214skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/01 01:28
4215
4216I have to imagine that mass murder is worse than even the worst case scenario for overpopulation.
4217
4218==================================================
4219
4220Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/01 03:13
4221
4222Yeah, no. Any solution that actively encourages violent anarchy or a might-makes-right rhetoric is just going to result in a massive crime wave from the sheer desperation that will be felt for generations afterward. Overpopulation by definition would peter out after 1 because dead people don't cause nearly as many problems as living people with no faith in the social contract- unless the problem was actually some event limiting available farmland like the Dustbowl Effect in the 30s.
4223
4224==================================================
4225
4226Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/01 03:19
4227
4228Plus, there's similar options that don't just jump straight to murder, like China's child limit or offering a tax cut to those that volunteer to be sterilized.
4229
4230==================================================
4231
4232amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/01 03:54
4233
4234https://pastebin.com/tTH2SbAb
4235
4236@Vidkunssonn
4237We dont have too many people. *looks at Canada and Russia*
4238 
4239@Dracobot
4240I think we should go full north korea on prisoners and execute them. If we have to kill some people, why not kill the worthless crapsacks in prison?
4241 
4242@skyk
4243Overpopulation wont get really bad until 60-70 billion, dont worry about it. Earth can only support 40 billion, but even then, thats living at first world country standards.
4244 
4245@TK
4246Sterilizing the criminals and ones with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea. If we have so many people, we should focus on getting rid of genetic diseases. This may sound hitler-like but thats because he took it WAY too far and fucked it up for any future use. Eugenics can be very good for a population and if it is used correctly. Imagine not having to care for people with genetic disorders. That will take a massive burden off of society, and our healthcare system.
4247
4248==================================================
4249
4250Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/01 05:15
4251
4252https://pastebin.com/6iJwhTxc
4253
4254We've already discussed this: Russia and Canada is too fucking cold to force people to live there; that's why there used to be a capital punishment in Russia where you're sent to Siberia so you'll freeze to death. You take 100,000 random people from anywhere it isn't cold (let's use India for an example: the most heavily populated country on the planet), they're all gonna fucking die. The only way you can possibly hope to spread the populations of earth AND KEEP THEM ALIVE is to slowly move everyone northward; that means sending people from southern Russia to northern Russia, people in Mongolia and other nearby countries to southern Russia, people in southern Asia to the other countries... It's not gonna work. You're not gonna spread 7 billion people.
4255 
4256"Sterilizing the criminals and ones with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea. If we have so many people, we should focus on getting rid of genetic diseases. This may sound Hitler-like but that's because he took it WAY too far and fucked it up for any future use. Eugenics can be very good for a population and if it is used correctly. Imagine not having to care for people with genetic disorders. That will take a massive burden off of society, and our healthcare system."
4257
4258Are you serious? Are you really suggesting that we kill off everybody on the planet who has a genetic disorder? Do YOU have a genetic disorder and just not know about it, because you're starting to sound like a psychopath with all of these psychotic plans of yours that will end with massive casualties. The reason people are trying to abolish the death penalty is because there are still people who care about the person that's going to be killed: family members, friends, people they've helped within their lifetime; and you're suggesting we should do that to everybody on the planet who was born with something they can't control or change and call it "a massive burden" that's been lifted? Are they not human too? Do they not also have family and friends to care about them? Let me kill YOUR family and then try to tell me I lifted a burden from you. You're fucking nuts.
4259
4260==================================================
4261
4262skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/01 05:53
4263
4264AD, I've seen posts by Killa-Byte that have almost the exact same phrasing as posts you've done here over a month after.
4265Compare this:
4266https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/6aoohw/anyone_else_still_believe_in_global_warming/dhg8dlu/
4267to your comment that was posted June 15th when you said "More CO2 = more plants. More plants = more food."
4268 
4269And please don't try to say that people with the same views would somehow also use identical phrasing, unless you really believe every person who believes in climate change naturally speaks exactly like Al Gore or something?
4270
4271==================================================
4272
4273amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/01 07:09
4274
4275https://pastebin.com/t828pwuw
4276
4277@Vidkunssonn
4278With a warming climate, those areas will become more habitable. Explain Murmansk, Longyearbyen, etc. all those arctic cities, and how they survive. People can live in the arctic.
4279 
4280If we do become overpopulated and have to kill off people, who would you kill, other than me and all the "climate deniers"? I'm not saying we should do it now, but if theres too many people on the planet, would you rather kill a serial killer, or an innocent person? Death is always sad but its good for society as a whole if we can eliminate serial killers and rapists and all those thugs from society. The process is sad, but the result is better.
4281 
4282Answer this: Do you want a population without genetic disorders? The only way we can get there is to ensure that people with them do not spread them to future people. Everybody has people who care about them, but that doesnt mean that society as a whole is better with them. I may not contribute to society, but at least I dont drain its resources. Perhaps a one child policy on people with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea.
4283 
4284Look, I'm not saying I want them dead. I'm saying that they should be the first to go if we ever face an overpopulation crisis, which probably wont happen because world population will level off at around 10b, and earth can support 40b. What would you do in an overpopulation crisis?
4285 
4286@Skyk
4287You all spew the same worded crap at me when you respond. I cant tell who wrote what. Likewise, you cant tell if me or killa-byte wrote anything. Same ideas, same wording. Like I said, it is likely that killa-byte browses this forum and rips my arguments.
4288
4289==================================================
4290
4291Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/01 07:44
4292
4293"With a warming climate"
4294What happened to all those pastes where you tried to claim that the earth was actually COOLING? As for Murmansk and Longyearbyen and other arctic cities, people are able to survive those conditions because that's the conditions they've lived in since they were born. You take anybody who's lived there their whole lives and deport them to Cuba, they will want to kill themselves because they're too used to the cold. It's easier to get used to warm climates than it is cold climates.
4295
4296"Do you want a population without genetic disorders? The only way we can get there is to ensure that people with them do not spread them to future people."
4297Most harmful and common genetic disorders aren't passed on through offspring, they're developed during conception or sometime during life. For example, Down's Syndrome: it exists because a baby was conceived with one too many chromosomes; Schizophrenia: not something you could pass on to your children.
4298
4299"Perhaps a one child policy on people with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea."
4300No, that IS better than killing them because of it. Not like it'll decrease the percentage of people with genetic disorders, though. Kill everyone on the planet who has Down's Syndrome, and in 30 years, the number of people with Down's Syndrome will be back to normal.
4301
4302==================================================
4303
4304amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/01 10:44
4305
4306@Vidkunssonn
4307I DID state many times that the earth IS warming, however not fast enough to hurt the earth, not manmade. Research has shown that people are very great at adapting to new climates, so that probably wont be an issue. Also, I'm moving to Arizona in 3 year, so I'll tell you what its like changing climate.
4308
4309I got inherited and genetic disorders mixed up. I meant disorders that ARE passed down from parent to child. With no child to pass the inherited disorder too, it will eventually die out.
4310
4311==================================================
4312
4313Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/01 13:19
4314
4315In one sense, amazingdude has a point. Negative inherited disorders are more detrimental than beneficial to society, and *one* permanent solution to this problem would be to kill them. If we were some kind of combination of heartless and understanding, this would work out fine. BUT we aren't. In the long run, it's good. In the short run, it's really really bad. People with these disorders are, obviously, people too and should never be subject to any kind of discrimination based on something they couldn't help. Since this should be considered unacceptable, we can only search for another solution. TK's suggestion for a one-child policy is a step in the right direction (from murder), but it is still discrimination. Even the tax cut suggestion would have to be targeted specifically toward those who have inherited diseases, which is technically discrimination (I guess it's better, and there are types of things like this already in place, but people have a problem with them anyway). I don't want to say that discrimination is ever the best answer, but I'm afraid some form of it might be.
4316
4317Also, even criminals are people that need rehabilitation instead of punishment, mainly because previous factors that caused them to do what they did are often set aside to punish the doer (just want to get this out there).
4318
4319==================================================
4320
4321amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/02 13:27
4322
4323@Draco
4324You're right. Nobody wants to do anything to people, but something should be done for the greater society. To have a child knowing it will have a serious inherited disorder is like purposly infecting people with AIDS. Just like how it is illegal to purposfully spread AIDS, it should be illegal to have chidren if you have a severe inherited disorder, because you are purposly spreading disease. Its not fair for the child., and the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Perhaps genetic engineering can weed out these disorders, but any law for their reproduction would be discriminatory by nature.
4325
4326I disagree that criminals need rehabilitation. I think criminals should be punished harshly. Maybe not things like speeding or drug possesion, but murderers, rapists, etc. need to be put to death. I do believe there are some things that just cant be fixed. Prison acts as a deterrent, punishment, and a holding place for dangerous people. Our system is not perfect, you shouldnt be thrown in prison for doing drugs, but some people really belong there.
4327
4328If someone came into your hourse and threw acid all over you and your family, permanently damaging or killing them, would you want them to be back out on the streets in 10 years, or would you want him thrown in a cell to rot for life and burned alive? If somebody is just going to get therapy for 10 years and be back out, what would deter them from committing crime? Compare that to the possibility of life in prison.
4329
4330==================================================
4331
4332Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/02 14:55
4333
4334Alternatively, just remove the adverse gene from the embryo with CRISPR and don't decide who can reproduce and who can't. I know I'm the one that brought up the child limitation, but that's just because that's a method that's actually been tried- I was leaning towards incentivizing sterility.
4335
4336==================================================
4337
4338amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/02 15:23
4339
4340@TK
4341That is a totally acceptable solution, and I'd rather this than the alternative. By the time we reach 40b people we should have the technology to do so. Also I think we should invest more into stem cell research and genetic engineering. The good that comes from this far outweighs the bad.
4342
4343==================================================
4344
4345Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/02 20:00
4346
4347We have it now, human testing started a few months ago.
4348
4349==================================================
4350
4351Disappointment			#5pWYfzbu 2017/08/02 23:48
4352
4353All of the last 1000 comments deserve a long and crestfallen facepalm.
4354
4355==================================================
4356
4357Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/03 00:12
4358
4359@amazingdude
4360https://pastebin.com/XhAQwBnN
4361
4362[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] PASTE REMOVED [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
4363
4364==================================================
4365
4366amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/03 03:11
4367
4368@TK
4369Thats great news, something I'm excited to see.
4370
4371@Disppointment
4372Yes, at the collective stupidity of everyone but me.
4373
4374@Draco
4375You really think you can help murderers? Unless its in self defense, somebody who commits a murder is probably mentally unstable enough to not be fixable. If someone killed somebody just because, they have proven themselves unable to handle being in society, and should be kept away from others. Obviously there are some justifiable cases such as self defense and what you said, and they do sometimes get fucked over by the system. Sure, some people learn, but that doesnt mean they are safe to release to society. While some murders you can reason with, most are too fucked up in the head to understand. They should not be set free. Someone who already murdered is way more likely to murder again than an average person, and should be kept away. Like I said, the threat of life in prison is enough to deter most people from commiting serious crimes. You just cant fix some people, and if you do, they are still dangerous.
4376
4377==================================================
4378
4379jon						#0SQnQpav 2017/08/05 08:41
4380
4381i.imgur.com/xDfNQAS.jpg <--- found on AD's reddit
4382
4383[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] IMAGE REMOVED [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
4384
4385{Guy with sunglasses holding an American flag}
4386
4387==================================================
4388
4389Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/05 09:56
4390
4391Where the fuck is his feet??
4392
4393==================================================
4394
4395amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/05 10:56
4396
4397@Hotdogeater
4398I miss flash games. They were simple, quick, and easy. Nowadays you have to download an add ridden, p2w app.
4399
4400@Jon
4401That white trash redneck is clearly not me. NO, I am NOT KILLA-BYTE. How clear do I have to make it?
4402
4403@Vidkunssonn
4404Looks photoshopped out.
4405
4406==================================================
4407
4408KillaByte				#ZLVftGAW 2017/08/05 15:47
4409
4410Password for the paste is: "climate"
4411Link to paste is on my Reddit account.
4412
4413https://www.reddit.com/r/DanBall/comments/6rqe3f/the_paste/
4414https://defuse.ca/b/ZdL92lJG
4415
4416[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] PASTE REMOVED [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
4417
4418==================================================
4419
4420amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/06 04:04
4421
4422@Everyone
4423Killabyte has spoken. We are NOT the same people.
4424Can we resume the debate now?
4425
4426==================================================
4427
4428Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/06 05:35
4429
4430@amazingdude
4431Nice try, Killa-byte.
4432
4433==================================================
4434
44359132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/08/06 06:40
4436
4437Could we stop debating? This is a game, not a press-conference. GO TO A CHAT ROOM FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!
4438
4439==================================================
4440
4441amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/06 06:46
4442
4443@Vidkunssonn
4444What more can I do to prove we are not the same person?
4445
4446==================================================
4447
4448amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/07 07:36
4449
4450all you guys are fucking LOSERS! You LOST THE DEBATE!!! YOU GIVE UP!!!
4451I FUCKING HAD IT FROM THE BEGININNING! THE WORLD IS FINALLY WAKING UP TO THE TRUTH ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!!!
4452YALL A BUNCH OF IDIOTS WHO BLINDLY EAT UP WHAT THE MEDIA FEEDS YOU!!!!
4453
4454==================================================
4455
4456hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/07 08:40
4457
4458You cant reply if you dont give us something to reply to.
4459
4460Also, a new study says that even if we shut off all our greenhouse emissions right now, which obviously wont happen, we would hit about 1.3C above preindustrial levels by 2100. However, we are most likely to be at 2C to 5C above preindustrial levels by then.
4461
4462==================================================
4463
4464Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/08/07 09:08
4465
4466Oh, boy...
4467The dude's finally gone off the deep end...
4468
4469==================================================
4470
4471Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/07 10:45
4472
4473We can't even agree on what constitutes as scientific proof- so nobody "wins". Best to just drop that boring topic entirely until we can agree on a scientific authority to source. Why are you obsessed with winning anyway? Are you getting paid or something? 
4474
4475==================================================
4476
4477Jackphantomhive			#RiRWL6l3 2017/08/07 10:58
4478
4479Lol. I honestly am happy this debate was over. I was going to order a chatroom but since everyone is over it I won't. HOPEFULLY, someone calls an asylum to come and pick up amazing dude cause i think he's lost a few screws.
4480
4481Oh and if you REALLY want something to debate over, how about pollution in the US that's a good topic. Or how teachers are not getting paid enough.
4482
4483==================================================
4484
4485hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/07 11:15
4486
4487Or if the US killing nearly 200000 people and obliterating two cities at the end of WWII was justified
4488
4489==================================================
4490
4491amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/07 11:33
4492
4493https://pastebin.com/y6sef38Q
4494
4495@Hotdogeater
44962017/08/03 03:11
4497 
4498False alarmist propaganda. We are only going to warm 1C this century, regardless of wat we do.
4499 
4500@Poofle
4501Sometimes thats what it takes to get fools to listen
4502 
4503@TK
4504Its fun to argue.
4505 
4506@Jack
4507Its not over. Also, I am mentaly sane. If anything, everyone else on here needs to go to asylum. Pollution is a non-issue.
4508 
4509@Hotdogeater
4510It was horrible, but would you have rather had an invasion of Japan which would have killed milions? I believe the bombs were justified to prevent more deaths. This is a case where the grass is greenr on the other side. What if we didnt drop the bombs, and we invaded Japan? We would be arguing why they SHOULD have dropped the bombs instead of invade the country, which destroy more, and killed even more people.
4511 
4512It was bad, but it had to be done to prevent even more destruction.
4513
4514==================================================
4515
4516Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/07 23:45
4517
4518@amazingdude
4519Insisting that somebody has to "win" takes the fun out of arguing.
4520
4521@hotdogeater
4522Conventional warfare had proven even worse; the Imperial government was spreading propaganda that the US was committing warcrimes everywhere they occupied, so whole populations would commit suicide to save themselves before they even saw GIs up close.
4523
4524==================================================
4525
4526hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/08 06:38
4527
4528At least we didn't have to deal with a nuclear attack at any other point in history. Also, we're already 1C above pre-industrial levels.
4529
4530Had the bombs not been dropped, Japan would probably have been in a similar situation to Korea.
4531
4532==================================================
4533
4534Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/08 12:17
4535
4536@amazingdude
4537Well, the idea is to prevent the murders from happening by giving as many people as possible a decent childhood and education where they not only learn laws and ethics but actually understand them and why they're there, something a lot of parents choose not or are unable to provide for the next generation. Personally, I believe that this is one of the most common causes for crime in general. At least try to rehabilitate them now while we prepare further generations. Then, assuming it works well, we won't have to execute nor rehabilitate many criminals because they won't commit the crimes in the first place.
4538
4539I recognize that you have the eugenics approach with criminals, as previously discussed: kill off the bad to promote good, unless this is where the conversation branched off of and this side-note is useless. In which case, forget I said it; my memory isn't that great.
4540And yes, this is a bit late because I was away.
4541
4542==================================================
4543
4544amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/10 02:51
4545
4546@Hotdogeater
4547Yes we are 1C above 1900 levels, and we may warm 1C more in the next 100 years. Nature.
4548
4549@Draco
4550More criminals will appear. Rehabilitation does not work. Crime might go down, but not by much to be noticable. Sombody fucked up enough to commit those crimes are probably unfixable and cant understand why they're there, so why even try? Bring back public executions. That'll scare them.
4551
4552==================================================
4553
4554hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/10 06:09
4555
4556@ad
4557We could warm between 1C and 3C. Either way, ice (specifically on-land ice) is gonna melt and raise sea levels. Dont worry about the ice in the ocean, that doesn't make a difference when it melts. Also, theres gonna be more energy for storms and especially hurricanes.
4558
4559More energy for storms usually means they get bigger and worse, and rapidly growing hurricanes usually aren't a good thing, especially if they're moving towards a major city. Rapidly growing hurricanes are especially bad because if they're at cat 1 in the evening and cat 5 by morning, that city probably wasn't prepared for a cat 5 and significant casualties could be expected from that. Also, we just hit another subject! R.I.P peace in the comment board Aug 6- Aug 7
4560
4561==================================================
4562
4563Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/10 09:43
4564
4565@amazingdude
4566Right now we have sane criminals with troubled pasts and mentally unstable criminals. We should have just mentally unstable criminals under the new system. That's a win. Unless the vast majority of today's criminals should actually be considered "insane", there would be a very noticeable difference.
4567
4568"Unfixable" criminals probably wouldn't be scared of even public executions. Or at least the more major cases.
4569
4570==================================================
4571
4572Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/11 07:12
4573
4574We could always turn into that one society from that one episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where all crimes committed are punished by on-sight execution, despite the severity of the crime itself (both murder and stepping on the grass is punishable by death). THAT will put fear in criminals.
4575Then again, I don't want everyone wearing togas and fucking each other because of the decreased societal modesty..
4576
4577==================================================
4578
4579Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/11 14:11
4580
4581I don't actually have a horse in the death penalty thing, but I feel like I should point out that the concept of punishment has always been more for the benefit of the victim/state as a way to provide a sense of fairness or closure than it was about actually preventing a particular crime. That's why most classic punishments mimic the crime- fining thieves, jailing slavers/kidnappers, executing murderers, eye-for-an-eye, etc.
4582
4583==================================================
4584
4585amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/11 14:28
4586
4587@Hotdogeater
45881C is the high estimate. Ice is melting at similar rates as during the medieval warm period. Melting ice an rising sea levels are not a concern. All that "storm energy" stuff is pure bullshit made up to scare us into supporting their green conspiracy.
4589
4590@Draco
4591Ones with troubled childhoods are because their parents committed crimes but werent locked up long enough, so they had a kid and fucked it up. What we need to do is lock them up for longer so they cant reproduce and spread crime to their children. Crime will drop because there will be less criminals being born, and we should get all the mentally unstable ones eventually since that is genetic.
4592
4593If someone is unfixable, best to execute them so we dont have to waste money on a lost soul.
4594
4595@Vidkunssonn
4596Honestly that would make everyone too scared to make small mistakes and we'd all be nervous wrecks. I'd be down for death instead of 5year+ prison however.
4597
4598==================================================
4599
4600Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/11 23:27
4601
4602@amazingdude
4603Is that really the main reason? What if the parents were never caught to begin with? What if it wasn't actually the parents' fault and the child grew up in a bad neighborhood or their friends encouraged them to commit crimes?
4604
4605@TK
4606Eye-for-an-eye was a bit extreme, but I agree with its idea. At least they were attempting to make the criminals understand why what they did was bad. The closure problem would be solved once everyone got used to the system, or at least started seeing it the way I do
4607
4608==================================================
4609
4610hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/12 04:30
4611
4612dear god do you even know how storms work? Hurricanes REQUIRE heat to exist.
4613
4614==================================================
4615
4616Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/12 09:02
4617
4618@amazingdude
4619There is SOOOOOOOOOO much more psychology behind why criminals commit crimes than "their parents didn't raise them right". Most murders, for example, are done out of revenge or jealousy, not a bad childhood home. Being a criminal is not something you're born as or raised as. The parent being the reason for a crime committed (omitting crimes being done against one's parent(s)) is not extremely common, and even then, it's usually because a parent was absent, not because the parent was a criminal and the child is following their example. The lack of a male authority figure (or just a bad one) is extremely detrimental to a child's life. Crimes committed by these people tend to be done because they seek approval from someone they've appointed as their dominate male authority figure, often someone who's lived their life in crime. It's a cycle: the male in question ALSO likely grew up without a proper male authority figure and looked up to someone who lived THEIR life in crime. This accounts for about 75% of convicted criminals; the rest are mostly crimes done out of revenge, jealousy, greed, etc.
4620
4621TL;DR "I suffered bad parenting" is a rare excuse for a convict.
4622
4623==================================================
4624
4625Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/12 11:48
4626
4627I just watched a television commercial that said "it's as American as ditching the metric system". (~._.)
4628
4629Ahh, the debate lives on. You're welcome. :D
4630
4631==================================================
4632
4633amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/13 03:51
4634
4635@Dracobot
4636I grew up in a bad beanerhood. I didnt turn into a crime ridden wreck, did I? No. Bad neighborhoods do not contribute to crime. Just dont hang out with thugs. Putting criminals in therapy would not help victims, who will be mad that their criminal is going to be back out, regardless of if he is fixed or not.
4637
4638I'm against the switch to metric system.
4639
4640@Vidkunssonn
4641So what your saying is that criminals ARE mentally ill to kill people out of revenge? About the lack of a father thing, lock them up so they cant reproduce and walk away on their kid, so their kid doesnt become a fuckup. And make sure the children dont hang out with thugs to pick up that behavior. Its very simple. Dont hang out around thugs.
4642
4643==================================================
4644
4645Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/13 06:56
4646
4647One person almost never serves as good representation of a large chunk of the population. For all we know, you might have gotten extremely lucky and that 99% of residents in your neighborhood become criminals in their lifetime. And you might say that you don't personally know anyone who has committed a crime, but you still can't say anything about bad neighborhoods anywhere else.
4648
4649Some people may not have a choice of interacting with thugs. If they grew up there, then they probably spent around two decades of their lives there. It's almost impossible not to have extended exposure to thuggery over a period of time that large, especially in the worse places. There's a reason why bad neighborhoods have thugs and why the number of them doesn't die down over time. It's most likely because that number is being replenished every generation.
4650
4651And again, I would be happy that the criminal is getting help instead of being simply set aside like they have no worth (you will likely disagree), as I honestly believe everyone should feel about the situation, but one opinion doesn't matter that much most of the time. But anyway, they wouldn't be set free *until* they are fixed, and if that doesn't happen in a reasonable amount of time, then some form of jail time may be considered.
4652
4653==================================================
4654
4655Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/14 03:27
4656
4657@amazingdude
4658No, that is not what I'm saying at all. I'm about to hit you with the ultimately insulting "never mind" because you can't seem to correctly comprehend anything I say. As a logician, I cannot tolerate your deliberate misconceptions of my words. That's not how you win arguments; that's how you get your ass beat.
4659
4660At no point did I ever say "mental illness". It is not a mental illness to be raised in a way that society looks down upon. They're not insane for committing crimes, it's all they know because they were never taught how to live better. They only know how to survive utilizing crime because nobody ever taught them important life skills that could have led them to a successful, bountiful life. It's sickening for you to say that they have mental illnesses because they simply don't know a better way, because it's not their fault.
4661
4662==================================================
4663
4664Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/14 09:23
4665
4666Technically, a mental illness wouldn't be their fault either. Unless they got it from jumping off a bridge or whatever. That's why we have insane "asylums" instead of insane prisons, it's a place to protect sick people from themselves.
4667
4668==================================================
4669
4670amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/14 10:24
4671
4672@Draco
4673How is interacting with thugs unavoidable? Just dont interact with them. Dont hang out with bad people. How is it more complicated? Go to school, stay away from the bad kids, come back home, stay home, repeat for 18 years. Nobody is forcing you to hang out and be like the bad kids. It doesnt get more simpler than "just dont hang out with the bad kids". You dont have to go hang out with the bad kids while they go rob people or sell drugs. If someone has good parents then they are less likely to be converted in a bad neighborhood.
4674
4675Then incarcerate the young criminals so they cant keep fucking up the neighborhood. What we need to do is get rich people to move into these bad neighborhoods and bring money into the economy, which will reduce crime. Poverty is a major cause of crime.
4676
4677Well, you might feel differently, but I would want them to suffer for their crime. Perhaps let the victims decide the punishment.
4678
4679@Vidkunssonn
4680Either way, they commit crime, they deserve to be punished. Throw them into prison so they wont spread their crime ridden ways to their children. You really think that teaching somebody whos been doing crime all their life the right way is going to change them? They're unfixable.
4681
4682@TK
4683Good idea. Throw the mentally ill into asylums and thugs into prisons.
4684
4685==================================================
4686
4687Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/14 10:48
4688
4689I used to think that way too, but punishment is not always the best way to get through to someone. The idea of criminal rehabilitation is to teach criminals the better way that they never learned in their early life. The only time that doesn't seem to work is when the criminal enjoys their life of crime rather than that being the only thing they knew, which is the threshold at which I will call someone "unfixable".
4690
4691==================================================
4692
4693Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/15 01:03
4694
4695Try telling that to children who don't have the sense of danger as adults. Sure you can tell any adult not to do something and why you shouldn't do it and they would probably listen because they automatically understand the connection between the two. On the other hand, we have to hold on to our children so that they don't run into an active street, and telling them not to do that probably wouldn't be nearly enough because children aren't aware of danger all the time unlike adults. Even teenagers disobey parents (sometimes for the sake of disobeying) unless they absolutely fear their parents/guardians or are one of those few that develop maturity early on.
4696
4697>Victim's choice in punishment
4698Hmm, are we at least going to let them settle down first? I foresee the Eighth Amendment's invocation being quite common.
4699
4700==================================================
4701
4702amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/15 14:55
4703
4704@Vidkunssonn
4705If we teach them the good way, who's to say they wont go back to a life of crime? Then itll be a waste of time and we'd have a criminal out on the streets. Best to just lock them up so it doesnt happen.
4706
4707@Draco
4708Kids are stupid, you are absolutely right. Besides, the future thugs are likely bullies in school and getting in trouble all the time. Why would anyone want to hang out with someone who gets in trouble all the time?
4709
4710The 8th only applies when the government applies the punishment, not the citizens.
4711
4712==================================================
4713
4714hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/15 19:46
4715
4716Still, alot of the punishments will probably be crueler than the crime itself was
4717
4718==================================================
4719
4720Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/16 07:48
4721
4722@amazingdude
4723Repeated offenses is not exactly common among criminals who went through rehabilitation. If the rehabilitation doesn't work the first few times, that's usually when they give up trying to make them better.
4724
4725==================================================
4726
4727Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/18 00:05
4728
4729@amazingdude
4730Peer pressure is a powerful force.
4731But surely there will be some kind of monitoring, right?
4732
4733==================================================
4734
4735hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/18 03:50
4736
4737Its been three days since AD replied to anything and he didn't give a warning that he wouldn't be able to reply
4738
4739==================================================
4740
4741amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/18 07:42
4742
4743@Hotdogeater
4744I believe the punishment should be as bad as the crime, maybe a bit worse.
4745
4746@Vidkunssonn
4747It may work in some cases, but in most cases the person is beyond repair. A bad childhood can fuck you for life.
4748
4749@Dracoo
4750Peer pressure is weaker than commonly thought. I've been offered heroin and to go on robberies in high school and I easily turned that down without question, because I knew doing those things would be bad. Its not impossible.
4751
4752==================================================
4753
4754hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/19 23:32
4755
4756Well, looks like the debate just mainly passed to a new topic and its not raging anymore so the comments are somewhat safe now
4757
4758==================================================
4759
4760Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/20 22:17
4761
4762@amazingdude
4763No, not most cases, closer to 10% of cases. It would SEEM like there would be more cases where the person is beyond repair because very few prisoners agree to go through rehab and very few prisons have a rehab program.
4764
4765==================================================
4766
4767amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/21 06:40
4768
4769@Vidkunssonn
4770Because rehab doesnt work.
4771
4772==================================================
4773
4774Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/21 09:46
4775
4776@amazingdude
4777No, because it costs money, and prisons don't see the prospect of having to pay more money to get a convict out of incarceration faster.
4778
4779==================================================
4780
4781Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/21 11:07
4782
4783For many people, peer pressure is a serious problem. Peer pressure clearly doesn't affect you very much (and I can tell; you're the only person here with any conservative beliefs whatsoever). It's not impossible, but it's still hard for more people than you might think.
4784
4785==================================================
4786
4787amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/22 10:22
4788
4789https://pastebin.com/FH1AGSZy
4790
4791Vidkunssonn
4792 
4793If rehab worked, prisons would use it because they would need to employ less guards and save money not having to take care of inmates. But it doesnt work that way.
4794 
4795@Draco
4796 
4797You're right, peer pressure doesnt affect me much, but I cant imagine being pressured into committing crime. I get how it encourages drugs and stuff, but crime? Really? Are these people just uneducated or do they not care?
4798 
4799I'm pretty used to being the only conservate on forums and IRL. The internet is pretty liberal and I live in the most liberal state in the country. It sucks.
4800
4801==================================================
4802
4803Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/22 11:40
4804
4805Out of curiosity, why are you still naming everything "climate alarmism debunked"? That last one had nothing to do with the climate or even natural science as a whole.
4806
4807==================================================
4808
4809Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/22 12:13
4810
4811@amazingdude
4812Isn't there something about the prison systems earning money based on how many prisoners they house? I've heard that that's the #1 incentive to keep people in jail, especially privately-owned prisons.
4813
4814I think peer pressure causes people to make bad decisions like doing drugs, which eventually evolves into crimes such as stealing because they focused too much on their drug habit and are forced to do those things in order to continue living or further fuel their habit.
4815
4816>Conservative in liberal state
4817lol It's the other way around for me.
4818
4819==================================================
4820
4821skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/22 13:19
4822
4823The term for the phenomenon, Draco, is the "prison-industrial complex".
4824
4825==================================================
4826
4827Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/23 06:17
4828
4829@amazingdude
4830That's not how it works. They still need to keep the number of guards the same because the number of prisoners doesn't decrease when sending prisoners to rehab (they're still incarcerated), and the people who RUN rehab charge a higher salary to work, so it actually costs MORE than to just keep them imprisoned.
4831
4832No, the internet is not liberal. There are too many people who follow the philosophy of "This can't be used against me, so I can do whatever I want" (trolls) for the internet to be identified as liberal.
4833
4834==================================================
4835
4836amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/23 11:16
4837
4838@TK
4839To seperate my pastss from everyone elses.
4840
4841@Draco
4842Thats not true about private prisons. Thats the government propaganda making you think rehab works. Also, wanna trade places? You move to California, and I move to conservative state?
4843Making a bit more sense now. Trumps wall should reduce crime because it would make it harder to get drugs into the country, which prevents addiction, preventing thugs from developing, less thugs = less crime. Plus it will slow illegal immigration and create millions of jobs. I know the wall isnt relavant to this but I brought it up because you suggested drugs cause crime and walls stop drugs from coming in.
4844
4845@Vidkunssonn
4846Except rehab is much higher risk. Life incarceration is low risk. Rehab can fail an you have a new killer on the streets. However its very hard to excape from a prison, and you still keep the killer off of the streets.
4847
4848==================================================
4849
4850Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/23 16:38
4851
4852Cocaine, sure- assuming you can stop the Cartels from using boats or aircraft. But most of the drugs that get people desperate like meth are locally sourced and a wall won't change that. Hell, meth was invented about an hour's drive from where I live.
4853
4854==================================================
4855
4856Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/24 07:25
4857
4858@amazingdude
4859People who have life sentences RARELY ever get put through rehab, and if someone with a life sentence DOES go through rehab, there an approximate 0% chance they'll be freed. Those who aren't in prison for life and are put through rehab still have to serve their time, even after completing rehab. You aren't set free for completing rehab, you're still in punishment for committing a crime, rehab is just to try to get the person out of the criminal mindset.
4860
4861==================================================
4862
4863Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/24 09:24
4864
4865@amazingdude
4866I meant all prisons in general, but I may be wrong.
4867
4868==================================================
4869
48709132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/25 01:12
4871
4872I know about prison much more than you. All my 4 uncles had been in prison and one was sent to tent city. If your talking about saving money, tent city it is. It's in the middle of the desert in Tuscon, Arizona. It has no AC, no beds, sleep under tour-up rags. You will be stung by scorpions about twice a year. Even if it's 120 degrees out, you must do a daily exercise. People hurt each other for some cold water. That isn't fun. Thats one of 11 jails and use it for murders and illegalls that cross the border.
4873
4874==================================================
4875
4876amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/25 07:36
4877
4878@TK
4879Itll slow the import of drugs, and discourage many people from trying. Instead of just passing a bag though a small fence, you now have to catapult it over, take a boat, etc. Itll stop a decent amount, but not all. Doesnt mean the wall is worthless.
4880
4881@Vidkunssonn
4882Ahh, making a bit more sense now. But I'm still skeptical about the success of rehab and whether its worth it. It hasnt been proven to work, nor do we have much reason to believe it does. For minor crimes, possibly, but not for major crimes.
4883
4884@9132
4885Sounds like a great place to put the worst of the worst criminals. They're unfixable, a waste of money, so lets let these lowlifes rot away in the arizona sun. Or the death penalty.
4886
4887==================================================
4888
4889Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/25 14:35
4890
4891That's just cocaine though. Meth, heroin, and LSD can all be made with a highschool chemistry education and some medicines/cleaning supplies. Is the Wall going to loop around every pharmacy and dollar store in the country?
4892
4893==================================================
4894
48959132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/25 23:25
4896
4897@Dracobot
4898My uncle stole a bait car while the cop was still setting it up. in Arizona, you will get SHOT and KILLED if you stole a candy bar while theatening the clerk. Its happened before and it will happen again.
4899
4900@amazingdude
4901Hey, I live in the middle of Arizona too, you know.
4902
4903==================================================
4904
4905hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/26 09:23
4906
4907Hurricane Harvey is gonna hit Texas in a few hours as a major hurricane. Lets hope the damage isn't too bad, but storm surge and heavy winds will probably cause really bad damage. This hurricane is stronger than Katrina was at landfall.
4908
4909The hurricane stalling over the area isn't gonna help with the flooding at all. There is supposed to be 3 feet of rain in localized areas, and the storm surge is gonna lower the amount of water flowing into the ocean by alot, making inland flooding along rivers even worse.
4910
4911==================================================
4912
4913amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/26 12:17
4914
4915@TK
4916Like I said, that does not mean we should not build a wall. Should we not ban flamethrowers because people will get them illegally anyway? No, we should ban them because they are too dangerous for people to own. The same is for drugs. The wall will stop SOME drugs, BUT NOT ALL. IT DOES NOT NEED TO BLOCK ALL DRUGS TO BE USEFUL, BUT IT WILL STOP A GOOD PORTION OF DRUGS FROM COMING IN. This went right over your head. My last comment specifically stated, "Itll stop a decent amount, but not all. Doesnt mean the wall is worthless." Yet you still claim the wall is worthless. We should stop as many drugs from coming in as possible, and the wall WILL help a bit, and it is still worth it.
4917
4918Also related, Less coke = less hard drugs used.
4919
4920@Hotdogeater
4921And watch the radical climate hoaxers use it as fuel for their global warming hoax.
4922
4923==================================================
4924
4925hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/27 03:57
4926
4927Hurricanes are warm-core storm systems, so global warming = warmer oceans (obviously) = larger time frame for hurricanes and more fuel for hurricanes.
4928
4929==================================================
4930
4931Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/27 07:33
4932
4933There's other steps we could be taking that don't involve expensive construction projects. Like following Portugal's example and decriminalizing drugs to instead treat addiction like the health problem it is; they did that and drug-related deaths dropped by over 80% since 2001 while the street prices of drugs saw a steep decline as well, deincentivizing their trade.
4934
4935==================================================
4936
4937vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/27 10:41
4938
4939@amazingdude
4940Remind me again how criminals obey the law.
4941
4942Simply banning something will not get rid of the problem. It's been that way since the concept of "law" was created. Making the use of something illegal will not stop its illegal usage; that's why Hillary trying to ban guns was so stupid, because it won't stop anybody. Even if it were successful, the homicide and suicide rate won't decrease; people will just find another way. Banning the object won't fix the problem, because there's always another object that does the same thing, and it's impossible to remove them all. If you were somehow able to successfully remove marijuana from the country completely, drug users will just move on to another substance to get their buzz. Don't ban the drug, that won't work. Fix the people using them. Eliminate the demand. That's the only reason people in Mexico try to import drugs to the US: people in the US use them. If we eliminate the desire to use marijuana, then the supply will decrease ASTRONOMICALLY. The wall MAY help, but it won't fix it.
4943
4944==================================================
4945
4946amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/27 13:37
4947
4948@Hotdogeater
4949I meant that the liberals will use it to fool us into thinking we caused the hurricane. We arent causing stronger hurricanes. They are a natural product of warming. We are in an ice age righ now. Imagine how strong hurricanes were before the modern ice age.
4950
4951@TK
4952You mean decriminalize drug usage, or drug dealing? You might be on to something here. I'd be fine with rehabilitating drug addicts, as long as they weren't dealing and that they pay for the rehab. They fucked up by taking drugs, they pay to fix themselves. In addition to building the wall.
4953
4954@Vidkunssonn
4955I agree with your views on guns.
4956A wall will prevent the drugs from getting here in the first place. Or send the military into Mexico (With support from their government!) to take out the cartels. Less drugs, less illegal immigration since they can focus on making their country better. Its another possible solution. Rehab might be feasible with drug abusers too.
4957
4958==================================================
4959
4960IFIDIE					#ZgslTFIx 2017/08/27 14:06
4961
4962U guys are still debating its been like a month
4963
4964==================================================
4965
4966skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/27 14:21
4967
4968Like 80% of opioid addicts became addicted because of painkillers legally prescribed because of health issues. They didn't "mess up" by becoming addicted, they're the victims of extreme misfortune, and completely abandoning them just because you feel superior to them goes against the sort of civilized altruism that distinguishes humans from other animals.
4969
4970(And no, I'm not saying we should withold prescription painkillers, but there needs to be support systems for those who do become dependent, otherwise we will never recover from the addiction epidemic.)
4971
4972==================================================
4973
4974Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/28 14:35
4975
4976@Vidkunssonn
4977https://pastebin.com/rJQ9WA6G
4978
4979"No, the internet is not liberal. There are too many people who follow the philosophy of "This can't be used against me, so I can do whatever I want" (trolls) for the internet to be identified as liberal."
4980 
4981This is not true. Being left-leaning is more chaotic, and right-leaning more orderly. Both are necessary and neither of those descriptions are pejorative. In the realm of the internet however, liberalism suffers because of its chaotic nature. This is why, for example, the new right is ferocious with doxxing people and similar forms of undermining, whereas the left is unplanned and stumbling with their aggression and anger.
4982 
4983As for rehabbing - it's an abstract problem. It's a question of whether or not a system can treat so many people SITUATIONALLY - key word. It's a lot of effort to give everyone their own particular treatment with regards to their circumstances. And is it worth it? Maybe it's "not their fault" in an objectivist way, and there is still a civilised person somewhere within them, but it's going to be far less valuable to society than a person who didn't fall into a criminal lifestyle. There are also considerations like the fact that male aggression cannot be cracked by psychologists, aside from the fact that it staves off at age 28. So why not lock up violent criminals til age 28?
4984 
4985Another thing to consider: antisociality is often really congenital, if not engrained for other reasons. Psychopathy is also literally present from birth, and can only be diagnosed via brain scan at age 25. For the greater good, should we not just "dispose", "forget" about these people? I am playing devil's advocate, but it's something I question a lot. Why rehabilitate? Why not just kill them or something?
4986 
4987Most important: our tax money will be an "investment" in these people. How will it possibly pay off? For one thing, to go from criminals to contributors a great deal of them will need a program that continues helping them after their rehabilitation - at least a big enough chunk that a program will be created for it. There is the fact that there will be less destruction and economic ruin from crime, but it doesn't outweigh how much we'd lose just so that we can "do the right thing".
4988
4989similarly to that chicken-before-the-egg theory about banning vs rehabilitating: what creates propensity for crime? Upbringing and societal conditions? We should focus more on stopping children from being born out of wedlock, for example.
4990
4991==================================================
4992
4993Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/28 21:14
4994
4995https://pastebin.com/6kDb3NpK
4996
4997Desperation and conditioning, crime rates are higher in low-income areas because stealing is better than starving. Kids learn how to shoplift to get things they otherwise couldn't afford, and just keep doing it afterwards because that's what they have the skill-sets for. Getting sent to prison just opens up more criminal opportunities, because the larger gangs and mobs have been using the system for networking and recruiting specialized convicts like safe-crackers, hitmen, cleaners, and most recently hackers since the 30s. It creates a sort of ecosystem of where the only authority anyone involved will respect are the ones that "earned" it by starting at the bottom like they did and taking what they wanted until they're at the top of the underworld.
4998
4999==================================================
5000
5001Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/28 22:01
5002
5003Yes, thank you, Minsheme. It's all about prevention. We should be able to make a huge difference in just a few generations.
5004
5005==================================================
5006
5007Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/29 05:13
5008
5009@Torture King
5010Of course, so what do you propose? Make networking within prisons more difficult or rehabilitate everyone?
5011
5012==================================================
5013
5014amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/29 10:41
5015
5016@Skyk
5017Addiction because of prescription is not true and has been used as a scapegoat for the real reason people get addicted: They abuse it. When used normally for pain, its not addicting. When overused however, it is. And I specifically said we should probably help drug addicts. addicts arent criminals, as long as they arent distributing drugs.
5018
5019@Minsheme
5020New to debate? Welcome to the great 2017 debate.
5021Rehab would work better with addicts than criminals. Small crime MIGHT work, but repeat offenders or serious crime is usually unfixable. Even if a criminal is rehailitated, the prison sentence will still need to be served, whether its during rehab or before.
5022
5023I agree with you on psychopathy, however just killing them from birth isnt a good idea. If they do kill someone however and ARE psychopaths, throw them in the chair immediately.
5024
5025@TK
5026Parents should teach the proper skillsets. Doing good in school, go to college, get a job. You dont need to be rich to get good grades, you just need to study and avoid the bad kids. Whether your rich or poor, theft is always wrong, VERY few exceptions. Or we could get rich people to bring money and move into ad neighborhoods
5027
5028==================================================
5029
5030skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/29 10:51
5031
5032AD: You are straight-up wrong. It is quite common that people become dependent on painkillers even when using them as prescribed. The idea that painkillers would be non-addictive because you're in pain makes no biological sense. In fact, many studies have shown that using them to treat pain can actually enhance the process of both psychological and chemical dependency.
5033
5034I am a neuroscience with years of experience studying the science of addiction. This is not an argument you are going to win. Just shut up now before you embarrass yourself more, okay?
5035
5036==================================================
5037
5038Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/29 11:16
5039
5040Whether or not stealing is morally wrong depends largely on what's being stolen, $50 worth of rice is not equal to $50 worth of champagne. I wouldn't condemn anyone as "bad" just because they're in a more unfortunate situation than me.
5041
5042==================================================
5043
5044amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/29 11:30
5045
5046@skyk
5047Then why arent all people who take painkillers for pain pill junkies? If your statement was true, painkillers would not be prescribed because everyone would fall addicted. I'd suggest you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg . I dont agree with it 100%, but it does have some really interesting parts.
5048
5049@TK
5050So you think its OK to steal from people more fortunate than you? Why dont I just steal my neighbors lamborghini just because I dont have a car at all yet he has 7. Poor people dont absolutely NEED to steal. They can live without it.
5051
5052==================================================
5053
5054skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/29 12:51
5055
5056Painkillers are prescribed because otherwise life-saving and life-improving surgery would not be possible, even if some (obviously not all) people develop a dependence as a consequence. If they were 100% addictive, they probably would be used less often, but they aren't, and I never claimed they were. When I said "quite common", I meant that many drug addicts begin that way. Not sure how you read that as "everyone who takes painkillers becomes a junkie".
5057
5058Anyway, that video is a major oversimplification of drug addiction, and his claim that people prescribed morphine don't become addicted is just false. Rates of morphine addiction/dependence are only as low as they are because doctors typically carefully manage doses and plan for tolerance and withdrawal.
5059
5060Yes, the social environment is a factor in most, if not all, forms of addiction, but it's far from the only factor or even the most significant.
5061
5062Not only that, but the "rat park" experiment mentioned has been discredited for decades, ever since other researchers tried (and failed) to replicate it. Basically, that video is just an ad for yet another under-researched pop-neuroscience book, and should not inform drug policy.
5063
5064==================================================
5065
5066Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/29 18:07
5067
5068Reading comprehension, you need some. I explicitly stated that there was a difference between stealing necessities and stealing luxuries.
5069
5070==================================================
5071
50729132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/29 23:22
5073
5074What is this debate about? It started from global warming and is now about addictive painkillers.
5075(However, painkillers are like muscle relaxers: If you have to many, your heart will stop.)
5076
5077==================================================
5078
5079Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/29 23:28
5080
5081"They can live without it"?
5082What about the starving and/or dehydrated, or do they fall under your "very few exceptions"?
5083
5084@9132
5085It lived on under a new topic basically because of me. And yes, I did that on purpose. You're welcome.
5086
5087==================================================
5088
5089skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/29 23:43
5090
5091I'll admit I got pretty tired of talking about the climate, but then AD happened to stumble into being completely ignorant on a topic I am highly educated it, so now I'm back in.
5092
5093==================================================
5094
50959132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/29 23:47
5096
5097@Dracobot
5098I'm not sure if you made it better or worse.
5099
5100==================================================
5101
5102Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/30 04:11
5103
5104"I wouldn't condemn anyone as "bad" just because they're in a more unfortunate situation than me."
5105
5106I don't know what your argument is. You are just saying you are a highly agreeable person, not commenting anything about criminals. You mean it's mere determinism that brings them to being criminals? It doesn't matter, they are still criminals and they know it, there's no need to sympathise for them.
5107
5108==================================================
5109
5110Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/30 05:05
5111
5112@Minsheme
5113That's the label amazingdude keeps using apparently without regard to context, "bad people". I'm saying that crime is a symptom of poverty, so throwing people in prison and calling it good is just throwing a rug over the mess instead of properly cleaning it with public works programs.
5114
5115==================================================
5116
5117Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/30 05:50
5118
5119There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes out of desperation. If I stop beating people who come to steal my crops at night, what's going to happen? Of course that is different from the law, but it's analogous - even if we plan on rehabilitating rather than punishing, we have to stigmatise crime; consider reactions to crime as deterministic as crime arising from poverty.
5120
5121==================================================
5122
5123amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/30 09:59
5124
5125@Skyk
5126What percentage of people prescribed painkillers actually get addicted? The number is probably exaggerated. People have different addictive tendencies. Some people do crack and never touch it again, others do it once and become crackheads. People with addictive tendencies are more likely to fall addicted to anything, whether its crack, herion, or painkillers.
5127
5128@TK
5129"Necessary" or not, theft is not OK.
5130
5131@Draco
5132Very few exceptions is where death is literally on the line. Low income people are not at that level of poverty. Ever heard of food stamps?
5133
5134@Minsheme
5135"Bad people" are crimnals. Crime is not a symptom of poverty. There is a fine line between poverty and crime. I did not say that crime is deterministic. Crime is caused by a will to commit crime. People with the will to commit crime are bad people, who need to be locked up. Reaction crime is justifiable (within reason) as a punishment to the initial crime committed. Beating someone up for repeated crop theft is OK, but killing them after stealing 1 piece of corn is not.
5136
5137==================================================
5138
5139skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/30 12:25
5140
5141AD: The proportion of individuals who develop an addiction after being prescribed painkillers is difficult to measure, but it's estimated to be around 7%. That value represents the prevalence of addiction within painkiller use, which is important, but more important to our particular discussion is the role painkiller use plays in addiction. That is represented by the proportion of opioid addicts who developed addictions from prescription medication (80%, as I said).
5142
5143I'm not sure if it's deliberate or if you just can't concentrate, but you're drifting away from the basic argument. You argued that addiction is a moral failing, and that society therefore has no responsibility to assist addicts. The basis of your argument is objectively wrong, as is clearly established by the fact that many addicts acquired chemical dependency from legitimate medical necessity. Whether or not there are people who aren't addicted to the same drugs has very little to do with it.
5144
5145==================================================
5146
5147Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/30 19:00
5148
5149@Minsheme
5150Well of course it should be illegal, I'm just saying it's not necessarily "wrong" to take food or water or some other necessity if you otherwise can't pay for it- thieves who can pay but just won't are part of the problem. Ideally the government would subsidize you for the loss like they already do for farmers growing staples instead of cash crops.
5151
5152@amazingdude
5153There's multiple levels of "okay" and "not okay", context is important.
5154
5155==================================================
5156
5157Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/30 19:18
5158
5159You can easily argue that all propensity for addiction is immoral. I'd say that a fully moral and "good" person would be immunised from addiction (I am describing an almost divine person though). As you said, a big chunk of opioid use is not deliberate. Since it's arbitrary, I think it's either moral to be geared so that you're unwavered by that experience or its moral to have the will to push against the urge for continued opioid use.
5160
5161@AD
5162I mostly agree with your pragmatic outlook. I think you misinterpreted my comment.
5163
5164(I guess it depends on your definition of "moral")
5165
5166@TK
5167You mean since they were acting out of desperation instead of malice? I agree they had no malintent, but I can't make sense of this. Were they so desperate that they forgot the law? Who decides who was in desperation and who was malicious, since it's easy to blur the line? I understand why you'd want to subsidise damage from this crime, but it is very nitty gritty. Lots of specific instances, needing verification, and their effects may not be isolated i.e. may snowball. I also don't see it being enforced without removing deterrents for crime. Why would anyone be responsible when they can simply get to a point where they "need to steal"?Even welfare would do a better job than this.
5168
5169==================================================
5170
5171skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/30 23:14
5172
5173@Minsheme
5174I'm not really here to discuss philosophy, but measuring morality by the ability to resist addiction is as pointless as measuring it by the person's tendency toward seasonal allergies. If two people are given the same prescription to recover from surgery, they both follow the prescription, and one of them develops an addiction, the addicted individual isn't any worse than the other, just less lucky in terms of brain chemistry.
5175
5176It's been a known scientific fact for decades that some people are inherently more likely to develop chemical dependence under the same conditions, due to a number of fundamental biological factors. Of course, this only results in an epidemic of addiction because of a true moral failing: individuals like AD who feel no responsibility to support their fellow humans, and would rather put these people in jail or out on the street while still addicted than put them through rehabilitation.
5177
5178==================================================
5179
51809132					#qfLtTlAz 2017/08/31 00:58
5181
5182@amazingdude
5183I watched the video and agree with a lot of it. There is some that i don't agree with, but the rest makes sense.
5184
5185==================================================
5186
5187SkyPhantomhive			#RiRWL6l3 2017/08/31 04:29
5188
5189Can we talk about code? Or start an argument regarding how video game files should have an administrators code instead of being open to the public? 
5190
5191==================================================
5192
5193amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/31 09:38
5194
5195@skyk
5196I still believe they are at least partly at fault for their addiction.
5197
5198In that case, Guy 2 should pay for rehab. Also, I have stated multiple times that people with addictions SHOULD get rehab, just that they should be responsible for the cost. The same way that some people are more likely to get cancer, but still have to pay for their health care. Have you even read that in my previous replies?
5199
5200"Rehab would work better with addicts than criminals"
5201"I'd be fine with rehabilitating drug addicts, as long as they weren't dealing and that they pay for the rehab."
5202"Rehab might be feasible with drug abusers too."
5203
5204@TK
5205Government should not subsidize poor peoples food. That's their problem, and if they can't make good money, they should get a job. The only people who deserve government help are the ones who CANT work. Anyone who CAN work but isn't does not deserve subsidized food, unless they already have a job.
5206
5207@minsheme
5208Addictive tendency is biological, it cant be easily treated. Your comments are very philosophical and it's hard to determine your stance on the issues.
5209
5210==================================================
5211
5212Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/31 09:47
5213
5214@skyk
5215It was just devil's advocate, but in retrospect it was a silly angle to try since it's biological. How about we just weed out everyone with addict genes so that we can create the ubermensch?
5216
5217==================================================
5218
5219skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/31 10:03
5220
5221AD: You can "believe" that it's their fault, but unless you have scientific evidence for it, your "belief" means nothing against the facts. The fact is, in many cases, exposure to painkillers is unavoidable within the proper medical care, and in a significant proportion of those cases the patient develops an addiction while properly using the prescribed drug. At what part of that is the person at fault? Regardless of what you believe, you can't just force yourself to not be addicted out of willpower. If you could, no one would want to be addicted.
5222
5223Saying that addicts should be fully responsible for the cost of rehab is not a solution for the addiction crisis. Addicts already have the option to try and pay for their own rehab, obviously, but the price is typically very expensive for someone without health insurance, so if the addict can't get public assistance for the cost, they will have no choice but to remain addicted, even at the cost of their wellbeing, and in many cases will have to turn to illegal drugs in order to avoid withdrawal (which can be potentially lethal outside of rehabilitating environments, by the way).
5224
5225Minsheme: Aside from eugenics being very problematic from both a moral and practical standpoint, it will be many many years before we can even identify the genetic basis behind addiction or resistance to addiction.
5226
5227==================================================
5228
5229Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/31 20:09
5230
5231https://pastebin.com/3WSBTF26
5232
5233@Minsheme
5234I agree, welfare is better, but if someone slips through the cracks it wouldn't be wrong for them to ensure survival another way. Like the ongoing nonsense in Flint, Michigan; if it turned out that some 60% of the water bottles they're completely dependent on were stolen directly from a bottling plant, would it really be the moral thing to confiscate it back and throw everyone involved in jail?
5235 
5236@amazingdude
5237I'd argue that protecting it's people from starvation is just as important to the concept of a government as protecting them from any other danger. Pooling resources for public good is kind of the whole point of the social contract.
5238
5239==================================================
5240
5241Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/01 08:29
5242
5243Finally, an argument involving something that actually has proven facts.
5244
5245==================================================
5246
5247amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/01 11:31
5248
5249@skyk
5250Why should we have to pay for a bunch of losers who started doing drugs in the first place? I dont want my tax dollars going to support someone who has been doing tons of drugs since he was 15.
5251
5252@Skyk, minsheme
5253Eugenics is good for society in the end. We covered this earlier on in the debate. Eugenics can be used to eliminate inherited diseases from the population, greatly reducing healthcare costs and improving our society. Eugenics started out in the early 20th century in the US, and was very popular before some Austrian guy with a funny mustache took it to the extreme. I'd be in support of eliminating addiction genes. It's ultimately the best decision for society.
5254
5255@TK
5256If somebody doesnt want to help poor people, then they shouldnt have to. It should be voluntary, I dont want money taken against my will to be given to somebody who fucked up in life and now relies on the govt for help. Unless he cant work or already has a job, he doesnt deserve free stuff.
5257On an unrelated note, this debate has officially transcended the CB limit.
5258
5259==================================================
5260
5261Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/01 12:10
5262
5263What exactly do you think taxes are for? Should we also make policing, firefighting, military training, and schooling 100% voluntary?
5264
5265==================================================
5266
5267skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/01 12:41
5268
5269AD, aside from the fact that public aid is less costly in the long run anyway, are you just gonna ignore all of the facts I've said about how drug addicts are not just "a bunch of losers"? If you're just going to base everything on your idiotic prejudices instead of any actual evidence, I'm not even going to bother talking to you any more, because you clearly don't have the capacity to listen.
5270
5271And no, eugenics is not effective. I'm going to assume that no one here has a background in genetics or they would have spoken up but now, so you're going to have to believe me when I say that the most basic "negative" traits (such as a tendency toward Alzheimer's disease, for instance) are extremely complex, involving dozens of genes, many of which have not yet even been identified. Something with a less specific pathology, such as a higher rate of addiction, could potentially involve interactions between hundreds of genes. Not only that, but many of them are going to be essential on their own. Like, if you cut out all the genes that result in a tendency toward addiction, you'd inevitably end up with someone, in a best case scenario, with a totally nonfunctional motivational nervous circuit. It's not like there's just an "addiction gene" that got stuck in there that makes a person an addict.
5272
5273I don't expect everyone to have a degree in genetics and neuroscience, but for heck's sake, don't use your ignorance and prejudice for the basis of political policy.
5274
5275==================================================
5276
5277abc123					#wgj3BymO 2017/09/01 14:55
5278
5279why is there always an argument here .-.
5280
5281==================================================
5282
5283Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/01 16:43
5284
5285Eugenics is incredibly effective, the problem is mostly that people just don't have the assertiveness to make it happen. Modifying genes before birth is more or less something for transhumanism in comparison to the benefits of not allowing disabled people to reproduce. There is no reason why doing the same for bloodlines with Alzheimer's (which is definitely NOT the most basic negative trait), for example, wouldn't work eventually, but for traits like that it would become a logistical and utilitarian problem; probably has more convenient solutions than eugenics.
5286
5287Scholars of genetics are torn on how effective prenatal eugenics is so your appeal to authority isn't going to work. Darwinian eugenics works no doubt. We supplement the existence of people who needn't be alive and wouldn't be if we stopped assisting them for nothing.
5288
5289==================================================
5290
5291skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/01 23:16
5292
5293https://pastebin.com/9J8gTnru
5294
5295If you define gene therapy as eugenics (which is a pretty stretched use of the term), then yes, eugenics can be effective, but even then for diseases with a single identified gene locus, such as sickle cell anemia. For diseases such as Alzheimer's (which, as a protein-level disease, is extremely basic), several possible genes have been implicated already, with others unknown, and the consequences of removing or altering each gene is still unknown. Genetic tests already are available, but there probably won't be gene therapy available for many years. Eve then, hundreds of thousands of people have some form of familial Alzheimer's disease, so investing in eugenic measures to treat every single individual with gene therapy would be an enormously expensive project.
5296 
5297I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Darwinian eugenics, since that's not really a term I've ever heard geneticists use, but assuming you mean a system of eugenics where selective pressure is artificially put against harmful phenotypic traits, it's pretty unlikely that would work unless the most draconian controls possible were implemented. Carriers of recessive genes, random mutation and the influence of epigenetics would make it too difficult to even identify who will express a harmful gene or set of genes. Like, the vast majority of people who know they carry a gene for early-onset AD already choose not to reproduce, and yet the disease still exists because it is still so challenging to identify ahead of time.
5298 
5299What evidence do you have that eugenics is effective?
5300
5301==================================================
5302
53039132 on dif com			#bmL0OYbZ 2017/09/02 01:03
5304
5305@abc123
5306There is one side who believes they're right and the other side is wrong and vice-versa. I believe that people that drink their whole lives of of other peoples money is unfair, but lets say that amazingdude thinks differently.(Although highly unlikely) I think he's wrong and it's neck-to-neck battle. Does that answer your question? 
5307
5308Besides, we can arrest people who take drugs, so what of it?
5309
5310================================================== *1
5311
5312amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/02 08:32
5313
5314@TK
5315No, because those benefit the community. We all benefit from having firefighters and police. We dont benefit by giving a homeless dude free money. Get a job or get out.
5316
5317@skyk
5318Most of them begin by voluntarily taking drugs. We're talking about all drugs combined, not just painkillers. These people chose to take these drugs, so they should pay to fix themselves as consequence for their actions. Sure, it is possible to be fed crack in a drink or something, but thats hard to prove as the starting point for an addiction. Poverty does not cause people to become addicted. Some people are more vulnerable to addiction than others, but in each case, the starting point of the addiction is the users choice to take drugs. Theres people vulnerable to addiction that never took drugs in the first place and are doing fine.
5319
5320Darwinian eugenics works like like evolution, except WE choose who doesnt get to reproduce. Sadly, this will never happen, because Hitler took it to the extreme, and you'll NEVER gain public support for it. If we DO want to become an intergalactic civilization, we'd have to go through the process someday. Maybe it's too early, but it must be done some time for the benefit of the human species.
5321
5322==================================================
5323
5324skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/02 09:02
5325
5326https://pastebin.com/nL0GkPia
5327
5328Okay, let me make an outline so that it's very clear why eugenics is not an optimal strategy:
5329 
5330To target a genetic disease, the gene locus must be identified, which in most cases will most likely not happen for years or even decades with focused research.
5331 
5332Genetic diseases are typically not visible phenotypically, because of three factors:
5333* Carriers of recessive traits
5334* Diseases which don't manifest until late in life
5335* Epigenetic suppression of disease genes (a phenomena which, notably, was not well understood at the time when eugenics was still a popular scientific view)
5336 
5337So, to identify everyone carrying harmful genes, dozens of genetic tests must be performed on every person in the population. The population (whether it's a city or country) would then need to either:
5338* Be totally isolated to prevent outside genetic material from entering
5339* Implement the most effective border control of all time
5340* Or, just test the entire population of the Earth
5341 
5342At this point, we're already talking about an expense that is magnitudes higher, even at a local scale, than the most generous healthcare proposals for the entire United States, and that's not even getting to the actual issue of how you intend to regulate reproduction.
5343 
5344If you're going to prohibit reproduction for everyone that carries one of the thousands of possible genetic mutations that can cause disease, you're going to have to impose that on a huge proportion of the population (I can't even estimate how huge, because as I've said the amount of testing this would require to even begin with would be extremely expensive). Aside from the practical cost, the society would have to deal with the inevitable resistance and, if the restrictions are successful, the proportional drop in population (and good luck bringing in outsiders to fill in for the shrinking labour force when you have to genetically screen all of them, too).
5345 
5346And of course, because the nature of most of these diseases comes from mutation, you will have to repeat this process every generation to make sure the diseases don't just spontaneously reappear anyway.
5347 
5348Is that really better than just communally paying for public healthcare? I'd rather give poor people medicine than pay a thousand times more to have random people sterilized.
5349
5350==================================================
5351
5352Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/02 18:23
5353
5354I'm not saying "give homeless people free money" I'm saying that everyone has as much right to live as anybody else. If someone has higher aspirations than mere survival, (this might shock you but most people at least have a hobby that costs money) then they'll likely get a job on their own to pay for it once survival is the sure thing it's supposed to be in civilized society. If you insist on oversimplifying it it's basically "Expand the scope of the Food Stamps program to include everything needed to live, no more no less.".
5355
5356==================================================
5357
5358Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/02 21:20
5359
5360You're putting a lot of trust in people's default nature
5361
5362@skyk
5363There is not much to calculate in the effectiveness of eugenics. If there is any objection to sterilising hereditarily disabled people apart from a logistical one then I'd like to hear it.
5364
5365Here's a relevant video.
5366https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Hka36EGgU
5367
5368==================================================
5369
5370skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/02 23:53
5371
5372Minsheme: https://pastebin.com/PxK6WqFp
5373
5374I mean, there are many many people who could make ethical and philosophical objections to sterilizing people based on their genetics (because, to actually remove a genetic disability from the population, you would have to target carriers, not just people actually expressing the gene), but I had a feeling you and AD wouldn't really care that much about ethics, so I've been focusing on the practical aspects.
5375 
5376Brennan's proposal is not the sterilization of hereditarily disabled people, anyway. He essentially proposed that gene sequencing should be more easily publicly available, and that carriers of genes related to severe disability should be incentivized to either not have children, or use gene therapy to treat the child's disability congenitally. This is a more reasonable proposal, but it's still not that feasible in the present. Brennan brought up that gene sequencing is getting cheaper, but it is still very expensive, especially when you consider that there are thousands of genetic disabilities, many of which can be carried invisibly. There's a reason the film Gattaca is science fiction.
5377 
5378It's true that supporting disabled adults can cost a lot of money to a society, but all the effort in Brennan's proposal wouldn't effectively reduce that compared to how much it would cost to sequence every prospective parent, when you consider that the majority of even congenital disabilities are environmental or develop from mutations during development rather than parental genes, not to mention disabilities that develop through sickness or injury later in life.
5379
5380==================================================
5381
5382amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/03 02:40
5383
5384https://pastebin.com/VFJMtm8B
5385
5386@skyk 
5387Require by law that all babies will be genetically tested for diseases. In around 100 years, you'd have the entire population measured. Eugenics takes centuries.
5388 
5389I'd say its more unethical to keep the diseases circulating in the population. We'd have the ability to cure all inherited diseases, and the rate of mutation is so small it wouldnt cause a disease to spread, especially with from birth testing. If we can somehow edit genes in the womb to cure the disease, that'll be fine.
5390 
5391It's bad from our perspective, but what if in 200 years it becomes way more feasible and the public's opinions change? Many people right now with inherited diseases don't WANT to have children because of it. Who's to say this wont continue in the future? Theres options already, there's adoption and artifical fertilization. I'm only objected to spreading of their genes, not them raising children.
5392 
5393Morals vary by society. In this society, sterilization of the diseased is very wrong, but during the eugenics movement, it wasn't. Who's to say it wont change in the far future, and maybe the disabled wont even want to have children?
5394 
5395Sure, we can just pay for healthcare for everyone, but that completely avoids the issue. Thats like saying "Why cure cancer when you can treat it?" Either way, people are still suffering from diseases they were born with, and no matter how free it is, healthcare is still a pain in the ass. Nobody WANTS to go to the doctor, free or not free. These diseases arent going to stop from appearing if we just treat them. Prevention is the best medicine.
5396 
5397@TK
5398Then why don't we help them get jobs, not free money? If we get them a job, they can benefit society AND make money. Like I said dozens of times before, the ones who CANT work can receive free money, but thats all. Teach a man to fish. You can't expect society to give to you if you dont give back.
5399 
5400@minsheme
5401I agree with that guys video, and coming from a disabled guy, it's really powerful. This guy presents a great viewpoint, and it should seriously be considered.
5402
5403==================================================
5404
5405Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/03 08:10
5406
5407@Minsheme
5408I trust that most people are greedy enough to want more than a small apartment and some cheap meals to occupy their time with. I also trust that most of those are lazy enough to find a hobby they can make some extra money with like basket weaving or whatever.
5409
5410@amazingdude
5411It doesn't have to be money, it could just be a care package with the essentials- like the kind they drop in Africa sans malaria medicines. Plus it's really hard to hear back from a job offer if you don't have a phone number and/or house address; speaking from experience, almost nobody actually uses the email address on a resume to get in contact. I got a physical letter once, but not 1 in 17 applications resulted in an email.
5412
5413==================================================
5414
5415Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/03 09:11
5416
5417@skyk https://pastebin.com/JCApqGFR
5418
5419What is unethical exactly? As Brennan says, it's now normal to claim that a disabled life should be no less full than any other life. I see no way around the fact that this perniciously devalues everyone who isn't disabled.
5420 
5421As far as I can tell, his ideal was that disabled lives are a backwards part of society and if it could be done in the flick of a switch they should all be removed. The rest is about implementation and handling the momentum of the system we have now (there are countless gears set in motion that would need to go in the opposite direction).
5422
5423==================================================
5424
5425amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/03 09:25
5426
5427@TK
5428That might work well in a socialist society, but we're not socialist. The problem with that is that it will motivate them to stay unemployed. "Why should I work if I get fed for free and have all this time to walk around and do shit?" Thats not solving a problem, thats avoiding it altogether. Lack of work is the cause of poverty, and by giving the care packages to everyone who is unemployed, able to work or not, your incentivizing them to not work.
5429
5430If email is their only option to contact, they will use it. The reason you didnt get an email was because you supplied phone and house address. If you didnt, they would have contacted by email.
5431
5432==================================================
5433
5434Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/03 17:36
5435
5436https://pastebin.com/A5Tcv5pU
5437
5438All that a capitalist society requires is a system of Haves and Have Nots to fuel the endless exchange of money for goods, there's no reason the thing that Have Nots don't have should be their lives. Think about how boring it would actually be to have the bare minimum and a clear mind that isn't 100% focused on surviving the here-and-now. No books, electronics, coffee, restaurant meals, games, art supplies, furniture, fancy cars, music, candy, pastries, etc. Plus it takes money to maintain and replace a lot of the luxuries already owned, somebody that spends every day jogging around town will end up going through a lot of running shoes that probably only get replaced by the State once every few years.
5439
5440==================================================
5441
5442Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/04 05:25
5443
5444TK https://pastebin.com/DK8ySeM4
5445
5446That was conflicting. Marxist dismissal of capitalism followed by "life would suck if [Marxist society]". What you're suggesting about primal survival, quelling boredom etc is pretty naturalistic and therefore conservative. That also calls back to the first sentence "fuelling the endless exchange of money", I don't know why that's written like it's something negative, but what actually fuels it if anything is markets, largely rooted in naturalism, and they exist so that "lives can be unboring" among whatever else. The alternative is to supplement the fruits of people's lives through the state.
5447
5448==================================================
5449
5450Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/04 10:46
5451
5452https://pastebin.com/YAng2FVe
5453
5454I'm actually a constructivist, not sure where you got the idea that I'm a Marxist. I would say an endless exchange of money for goods is the definition of a stable market, people wouldn't be trading things if it didn't benefit them in some way.
5455
5456==================================================
5457
5458Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/04 11:39
5459
5460Just from "haves and have nots", it seems to be common in Marxism/its followers and I assumed it came from oppressor vs oppressed.
5461
5462==================================================
5463
5464amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/04 11:50
5465
5466@TK
5467If they want to live a fuller life, then they should give back to society by working. Trumps wall will create tons of jobs.
5468
5469==================================================
5470
5471Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/04 12:00
5472
5473For crying out loud, TK. Endless e.xhange was the problem both times.
5474
5475==================================================
5476
5477U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#KbsngwXs 2017/09/04 13:32
5478
5479How about have ha55ii add delete comments? That way you can send deletion requests to hate comments and of they get more than 10 deletion requests in a day, it will get removed. ONLY in PG1 and PG2 comments. In other comment sections hardly anyone goes there.
5480
5481==================================================
5482
5483amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/04 14:16
5484
5485@U Have 2 Vote
5486I disagree with that idea. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. They may be dragged into a 4 month long debate or absolutely roasted, but they have the right to their opinion. I can choose not to believe in man made global warming, or TK can be a socialist, but we both have the same right to our opinion, right or wrong.
5487
5488Deletion by vote is a form of censorship, and ANY form of censorship is bad. If your proposal was implemented, the CB would turn into an echo chamber of popular opinions with no real discussion.
5489
5490==================================================
5491
5492Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/04 17:52
5493
5494@Minsheme
5495Haves produce and sell resources in excess, Have Nots consume and purchase resources when they want something. It's the most basic class system that can exist and likely the most fair to the lower class because it doesn't imply divine right or some other nonsense.
5496
5497@amazingdude
5498At best the Wall is a bandage, it's not going to be in construction forever, most of the country's homeless have no way to travel that far south, and when construction's done it'll require far less civilian effort to maintain. And of course, it's not going to be very effective at its stated purpose. A better project for temporary construction jobs would be repairing and expanding Eisenhower's interstate system, which is definitely useful but falling apart in more rural areas that can't afford to maintain more than gravel roads.
5499
5500==================================================
5501
55029132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/04 23:37
5503
5504Out of all the states to suffer, we are the worst. I live in Arizona and half the people don't even speak english. Do you know how hard it is hearing someone say"Your brother died in Nogales trying to defend himself in the middle of a warzone?" We need the wall to protect our country from bloodthirsty illegalls.
5505
5506==================================================
5507
5508amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/05 02:46
5509
5510https://pastebin.com/a5bbupYL
5511
5512==================================================
5513
5514@TK
5515I still think the wall is a better idea, coming from a place where illegals are almost the majority. We've let too many of them in and they're replacing US citizens, taking our jobs, our tax dollars, and multiply like spiders. People wonder why so many people move out of California, this is why. California is slowly being turned into Mexico, and all the Americans are moving out because of it. It sounds racist, but it's true: Many parts of the southwest US are being overrun by illegal immigrants, and we need to do something about it. "We are a nation of immigrants". IMMIGRANTS, not refugees. We shouldnt have to take care of everyone just because their country has problems.
5516 
5517Diversity's great, but not when half the population doesnt even bother to learn our culture and come here legally, and are almost turning us into Mexico. We cant just let millions of people come into our country uncontrolled. Their country is fucked up, but that doesnt give them the right to migrate all their people somewhere else for free. Thats running away from their problem and not facing it. As a US citizen, I felt like my government didnt care about me anymore. People who come illegally are getting better treatment than real US citizens who have been here for generations. I'm pissed at Obama for letting it happen, and at least Trump wants to do something about it.
5518 
5519Birthright citizenship needs to be updated for the 21st centry. You shouldnt be able to climb a fence, pop out a baby, and climb back over and have that baby be considered just as American as you or me.
5520 
5521Maybe you'll understand, maybe you'll think I'm a xenophobic bigot, but the undenyable truth is that mass migration destroys the native population and culture. Ever heard of Columbus? I dont mean to compare the illegal immigration crisis to the native american genocide, but you get my point.
5522 
5523Never thought about improving the interstate highway system. I'd love to have that done. How much more plausible is that than a wall?
5524 
5525@9132
5526What part of Arizona are you from? If your brother really did die, I feel really bad for you and angry at the government.
5527
5528==================================================
5529
5530Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/05 08:06
5531
5532https://pastebin.com/qzZitnMA
5533
55341) Being illegal they generally don't have the paperwork for any job that's over-the-table, under-the-table jobs themselves are quite illegal so that's reason to pressure employers for preferring tax fraud to fair business practices rather than the employees for doing what they can when they can.
5535 
55362) I agree, proof of citizenship or at least documentation of going through what is apparently a 5 year (minimum) process should be a requirement for receiving social security benefits, etc. if it isn't already.
5537 
55383) No reason to be mean, I imagine the birthrate isn't that drastically off from any other predominantly Catholic population.
5539 
55404) I was under the impression that the US's war prizes from the Mexican-American war have always had predominantly Mexican populations, how do you tell who's broadcasting their illegality and who just has a large amount of pride in their cultural heritage?
5541 
55425) Yes, absolutely none of our major immigration waves were refugees fleeing from countries with problems, certainly not the original Puritan colonists, victims of the Irish Potato Famine, thousands from Imperial China that had basically never heard of democracy or life outside of a caste system, a few million Jews fleeing Eastern Europe, or still more refugees fleeing from a significantly more war-torn Europe, Soviet Union, and Cuba. No, all of our ancestors came from places without any problems. /s
5543 
55446) Stages of grief as applied to culture shock, they don't want to admit that they were forced to basically give up on their homeland and leave, so they choose to "deny" it pretend it's still Mexico. Lots of foreign nationals all over the world end up doing the same thing for their respective cultures of origin; their kids and their kids' kids will probably be just as American as the next guy if history continues to repeat itself.
5545 
55467) Agreed, though I'm having trouble imagining a suitable replacement that wouldn't be draconian.
5547 
55488) Don't worry about it, I almost never write people off as bigoted, I might wonder at whether they have anything to gain politically or financially for doing something I perceive as pointlessly aggressive but usually I figure they're having a bad day.
5549 
55509) Actually about 70% of the native population were already dead before the SmallPox blanket thing Andrew Jackson did. Patient Zero for the plague is thought to have been a slave on a Spanish ship about 200 years before the first boat full of Englishmen arrived. And since the dominant medical theory of the time claimed that bad smells or "miasma" were responsible for disease and "germs" were unprovable nonsense only quacks believed in, most of the genocide was completely by accident.
5551 
555210) Well they're all over the country rather than just across the southern border, so it'd take at least 5 times more labor to get it done. Or something, probably more or less depending on conditions between states. And since the original Interstate system was mostly concerned with maintaining order after a hypothetical nuclear apocalypse, what we have isn't prepared for the sort of things we've been needing it for.
5553 
5554Like the hurricane in Houston, the reason there wasn't an evacuation before it hit was because the last time Houston evacuated for a hurricane it resulted in a massive traffic jam on the highway and hundreds of people died in their cars. If the Interstate were constructed with evacuations in mind then that probably wouldn't have happened and the current flood would probably be more of an inconvenience than anything life-threatening.
5555
5556==================================================
5557
5558amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/05 09:06
5559
5560https://pastebin.com/vFsXbeKz
5561
5562@TK
5563 
55641. Many of them use fake documents to get work. Even still many work under the table and dont pay taxes. Companies are desperate for labor.
5565 
55662. It probably already is, however they stil give it anyway, or they use fake documents.
5567 
55683. Last I checked hispanics have the highest birth rates out of any group in the country.
5569 
55704. I thought the same, however looking at demographics on Wikipedia shows the entire southwest getting more hispanic every 10 years since 1970, when the category was added to the census. After a few generations, immigrants become fully assimilated. For example, Most white Americans arent celebrating the Queen's birthday or other Eurpoean traditions anymore. With all this, I find it hard to believe that most people in these areas have been there for hundreds of years ever since the Spanish founded the colonies. The culture is just too strong.
5571 
55725. Never thought about that. I always thought people came here because they loved America and wanted to make it better, not just running away from their horrible country.
5573 
55746. That actually makes alot of sense, however pretending you're still in the country you fled isn't very healthy.
5575 
55767. I've got a proposal. Anyone born in the US would be considered a citizen if one of their parents was a citizen. That means if people immigrate legally from another country, become citizens and have a child, that child is a US citizen. However if somebody climbs the fence, pops out a baby, then climbs back over, that baby is not a citizen. At this point in history, the US has a natural population, and citizenship should follow. European countries dont have automatic birthright citizenship. I also believe the idea of a "melting pot" is outdated. We are our own country, with a unique identity and culture. The melting pot has cooled.
5577 
5578This does not solve the problem with anchor babies already born, however, but that issue has no good solution. They shouldnt be here, but they've lived here all their lives, so deportation isnt really right either. We can solve illegal immigration, but the damage has already be done.
5579 
55808. Reddit is a liberal echo chamber, say anything slightly right of center you'll get destroyed, downvoted, and banned. So is my home city.
5581 
55829. Interesting.
5583 
558410. Widening freeways wont make it much faster in evacuations. Crowds dont cause traffic, Lane changers do. Even still, 4 lanes going 5mph is better than 2 lanes going 5mph. How exactly would we better prepare our roads for mass evacuation? I support your idea of upgrading the interstate highway system, but I just dont know how it will be done. Only thing I can think of is reversible lanes and bidirectional signage. Safer bridges and flood prevention perhaps?
5585
5586==================================================
5587
5588Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/07 02:25
5589
5590https://pastebin.com/CBY9HuZ7
5591
5592
55931&2) If companies are so desperate for labor, how can there still a shortage of jobs among citizens? They get to pick who they hire and if they choose someone with sketchy documentation who will work for half or less of minimum wage that's on them for being vultures.
5594 
55953now2) Is that counting people who specifically got pregnant to have a kid north of the border? Because I feel like gaming the system like that would throw off a lot of fertility statistics.
5596 
55974now3) Most white Americans are actually ethnically German, about 46 million as of 2014. In 1910 German was the second most spoken first language in the country, it only changed in the wake of WW1 and WW2 when everything German was stigmatized. In any case, hamburgers, hotdogs, kindergartens, and Christmas trees are still just as ubiquitous in the US as they were in the 1800s. Just as I imagine tortillas, sugar breads, and (I dunno, Dia de los Muertos? That's bombastic enough already I'm surprised it's not here by now.) will probably be ubiquitous in the 2100s.
5598 
55997now4) That could work, there's some precedence with older immigration law that requires a spouse/family member already living here to vouch for immigrant hopefuls, short be short work to stretch that definition over fetuses.
5600 
560110now5) I was thinking of adding more exit/entry lanes onto it. Like, I live right on I-5 and it's the only way onto the network from my city without taking some backroads to the next town- despite city limits sprawling over two different counties. If there were say, if there were any reason to evacuate the people living in the "back" would have to wait for everybody else to leave first, but with more entries onto the highway spread more evenly across every population center there'd be less rush to get to any one in particular and traffic flow would improve drastically. I think. My only experience with traffic design is from Sim City.
5602
5603==================================================
5604
5605amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/07 08:41
5606
5607@TK
5608
56091. They still take the risk by hiring them, and many use fake documents as described as before. Maybe they even cover it up and lie about their legality status to the government. Companies will take major risks to make profits.
5610
56112. I'd assume so, as its out of all births in the US. It could also be that in interracial marriages with a hispanic, the baby is considered hispanic, as opposed to mixed, in other interracial marriages.
5612
56133. Already are in some areas, no doubt all around in 80 years. It's almost as if history is repeating itself, except with mexican culture. I personally disagree with it, but its happening.
5614
56155. I agree with that. We do need more exits on our freeways, however not too much, as that would just make traffic worse on normal days. No more than 1 exit per mile. While we're at it, let's upgrade freeway interchanges to be full access, so you dont have to take side streets to get on the right freeway direction.
5616
5617==================================================
5618
5619{No reply to the above comment, golden age of debate ends}
5620
5621================================================== {Topic shift 2}
5622
5623amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/08 13:07
5624
5625As an object gets larger, it looks larger. As an object gets further away, it looks smaller. If it is infinately large (A strech plane), it will cover exactly 1/2 of the possible angles you can view it from. If an object is infinately far away, it will vanish.
5626
5627If an infinately large object is infinately far away, what the hell happens?
5628
5629==================================================
5630
5631Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/08 17:50
5632
5633You see nothing, of course. Same reasoning for why the stretch plane covers 1/2.
5634
5635==================================================
5636
5637Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/08 21:52
5638
5639@amazingdude
5640I know where this is from. If the object is infinitely far away, light takes an infinite amount of time to reflect off of the wall and reach your eyes, so you would not see it.
5641
5642When you ignore this, you have to be careful. Infinity is not a set number, so every time we use it we treat it as a general amount relative to everything else. Because of this, it depends (the ratio to the wall to its distance away is indeterminate). If the wall had a surface area of א_one units and it was a distance of א_naught units, then we would be able to see it because its size vastly overwhelms its distance. If it's the other way around, we would not be able to see it because the distance vastly overwhelms its size. The infinity is still there because א_naught and א_one both represent infinity.
5643
5644==================================================
5645
5646OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/08 22:06
5647
5648There is some deep shit going on here
5649
5650==================================================
5651
5652U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#E2nuHWpX 2017/09/08 22:29
5653
5654@amazingdude that doesn't make sense because you can't divide infinity by infinity. 
5655
5656==================================================
5657
5658amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/09 07:26
5659
5660So does anyone wish to continue the Great PG2 Debate?
5661amazingdude #padtckOV 2017/09/07 08:41
5662
5663==================================================
5664
5665U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#ZiAQL0tb 2017/09/09 07:38
5666
5667@amazingdude Nobody needs to be in the Great PG2 Debate. It just might start a big argument and possibly a "war" like in PG1.
5668
5669==================================================
5670
5671amazingdude				#N1hn3TpZ 2017/09/09 10:34
5672
5673The debate is so long, the limit swallowed the beginning.
5674Also, comments aren't really deleted. Some dude found comments going back years hidden in dbs servers
5675
5676so the debate is officially over then :(
5677I was hoping to set a record.
5678
5679==================================================
5680
5681Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/09 12:40
5682
5683Still, I'm game for more debating if there's still any ground to cover. Last one kind of petered out into "I agree with this" "me too", and at that point you may as well just find a mirror to agree with.
5684
5685==================================================
5686
5687amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/09 12:44
5688
5689Someone give us debate topics. Let the Great PG2 Debate live on!!!
5690
5691==================================================
5692
5693Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/09 12:55
5694
5695Who do you believe: Newton, Leibniz, or was it Archimedes all along?
5696
5697==================================================
5698
5699OmegaPirate				#ThE7mUFZ 2017/09/09 13:21
5700
5701It was all aliens, Draco.
5702
5703==================================================
5704
5705Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/09 15:04
5706
5707Kind of funny how the solution to "what do you see if an object is infinitely far away" puzzle could contradict the one about an infinite stretch plane covering 1/2. It would never reach 1/2 if light had to travel infinitely. I thought this was just a hypothetical so things like light wouldn't be taken into account.
5708
5709==================================================
5710
5711CapsLock				#KirKIu4r 2017/09/09 16:07
5712
5713Bush did 911
5714there, thats a debate topic ;)
5715
5716==================================================
5717
5718Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/09 17:41
5719
5720Depends what the "Bush" entity means. Yes, Jews did 9/11 and Bush happened to be the nominal leader at the time.
5721
5722==================================================
5723
5724amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/09 23:59
5725
5726@capslock
5727Well not specifically Bush, I do believe there is more to it than just 19 terrorists hijacking passenger planes. For example, pilots had to be involved in training the hijackers, or maybe even being the hijackers themselves. Perhaps there were explosives planted on the planes. Something just doesnt seem right about the official story.
5728
5729==================================================
5730
5731Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/10 01:11
5732
5733It's a matter of public record that they were in fact trained by US forces, about 3 decades before 9/11 as a way to hassle the USSR's interests in the middle east. That's also around the time Bin Laden's posse was radicalized into perceiving any and all foreign involvement in the middle east as colonialism- because at the time the Pentagon was still more concerned about potential dangers of communism than making and arming over a dozen xenophobic lunatics.
5734
5735==================================================
5736
5737OmegaPirate				#ThE7mUFZ 2017/09/10 04:25
5738
5739If you don't know, blame it on one of these three things:
5740Jews
5741ISIS
5742Obama/Trump
5743
5744==================================================
5745
5746Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/10 04:53
5747
5748I blame Jaden. It's all Jaden's fault.
5749
5750==================================================
5751
57529132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/10 04:56
5753
5754Who the hell is Jaden?
5755
5756==================================================
5757
5758amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/10 05:12
5759
5760@TK
5761So 9/11 is our own da,mn fault. fucking lovely.
5762
5763==================================================
5764
5765Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/10 11:53
5766
5767Continuum Hypothesis: true or false?
5768
5769==================================================
5770
5771U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#5mbMD9a9 2017/09/12 12:33
5772
5773Don't put puzzles or opinions unrelated to PG in the comments. They start arguments.
5774
5775==================================================
5776
5777skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/12 12:43
5778
5779Comments 2017/06/08 to 2017/09/12
5780https://pastebin.com/VQ1748Cn
5781
5782==================================================
5783
5784amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/12 13:54
5785
5786@skyk
5787I've got backups from when the debate started. I compiled an archive over the past few weeks. This one starts at the top, has dividers, integrates pastes, and uncensors words
5788
5789Last minute debate topics? #LongLiveClimateDebate
5790
5791==================================================
5792
5793OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/13 00:33
5794
5795Everyone debate this
57969/11 was a planned explosion
5797All the planes were cgi on the videos
5798And there were explosives in the building
5799
5800==================================================
5801
58029132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/13 01:43
5803
5804Well, it was suspicious. 
5805
5806==================================================
5807
5808Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/13 02:34
5809
5810Yes, it was absolutely planned, you don't just hijack an airliner and plow it into a building because you've got a day off of work and have nothing better to do.
5811
5812New York City is one of the most constantly active populated cities in the world, how the hell would a doctored video convince any of them the planes they saw didn't exist.
5813
5814Maybe? For all we know the janitor was planning on going Postal later that evening. In any case, a bunch of old guys in the desert pissed off that the US has "colonialist" airbases everywhere have a lot less to lose than gain from the tactic than a draconian US government does from destroying an edifice of economic power and demoralize their people to get a resource they already have in surplus.
5815
5816==================================================
5817
5818OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/13 04:55
5819
5820What I mean by planned event was that it was the government and they just told everyone that there were planes as they belived it.
5821
5822==================================================
5823
58249132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/13 05:32
5825
5826@OwenDaPanda
5827Your wrong. It was a setup, knowingly or not.
5828
5829==================================================
5830
5831CamMax1305				#CZMwa3uo 2017/09/13 06:00
5832
5833I watched a video where it was the plane crashing into 2 second tower in slowmo and it looked so CGI and the explosion was delayed
5834
5835==================================================
5836
5837Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/13 06:26
5838
5839I think the fire department there happened to be filming something near the Towers right at that moment, so they got the planes on their own camera in completely accidental circumstances.
5840
5841==================================================
5842
58434783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/13 06:54
5844
5845Well, relating to OwenDaPanda if they in fact were not planes what were they? 
5846
5847==================================================
5848
5849Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/13 07:28
5850
5851@OwenDaPanda
5852You seem to have skipped right over my main argument so I'll reiterate.
5853There's no motive; anybody demonstrating the competence it takes to arrange something like that, frame somebody else, and bury the truth for 16 years is going to be rather competent by necessity. But the US government didn't gain enough out of the ordeal to justify the loss in economic power and civilian morale. Only an idiot would make that move, but an idiot wouldn't be able to.
5854
5855==================================================
5856
5857amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/13 07:34
5858
5859Like I said, I believe there might have been explosives hidden on the plane. Something more than just jet fuel.
5860
5861==================================================
5862
5863OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/13 08:17
5864
5865@4783...
5866They aren't anything. All the "planes" were just CGI in the news videos, and all the planes that people saw were just a suggestion from the government. (Or the people who staged it)
5867
5868@TK
5869It doesn't excactly need to be the government. It could be terrorist, but they didn't crash some hijacked planes, all they did was set explosives and then suggest to everyone that it was planes.
5870
5871==================================================
5872
5873amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/13 08:59
5874
5875@Vidkunssonn {OwenDaPanda}
5876But we actually saw the planes...
5877
5878==================================================
5879
5880OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/13 09:30
5881
5882You didn't see the planes, you THINK you did, but that's just te power of suggestion, and they are not accualy there.
5883
5884==================================================
5885
58864783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/13 09:48
5887
5888@OwenDaPanda
5889What are you suggesting? 
5890
5891==================================================
5892
5893Madisonflame			#kdpeI8WM 2017/09/13 11:17
5894
5895Can you guys just STOP talking about it.....
5896LIKE MY GOD.
5897
5898DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE PENTAGON GETTING HIT AS WELL, THEY RECORDED A PLANE HITTING IT.
5899NOW STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.
5900
5901==================================================
5902
5903OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/13 11:58
5904
5905(Sorry Madison, but they wanted debates, and I like debates, so long as they aren't about stuff that's tooooo stupid)
5906
5907What I'm sugesting is that someone like a terrorist or a group of terrorist that planted some bombs in the towers. They then had some waiting in the ground to spread the word of a plane hitting the towers, so people would belive that they had been hit by a terrorist hijacked planes.
5908But really, there were no planes.
5909
5910PS I know that there really were planes, but I heard that you wanted a debate
5911
5912
5913==================================================
5914
5915U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#5mbMD9a9 2017/09/13 12:15
5916
5917Guys don't comment things unrelated to PG because they start arguments.
5918
5919==================================================
5920
5921Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/13 12:28
5922
5923@amazingdude
5924Why did you tag ME?
5925
5926==================================================
5927
5928amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/13 13:20
5929
5930I saw the purple and thought it was you.
5931
5932==================================================
5933
5934Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/13 14:32
5935
5936@U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!
5937Yeah but they're tame arguments with no ad-hominems, it's not like we all hate eachother.
5938Dissent isn't automatically a bad thing.
5939
5940==================================================
5941
5942Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/13 14:54
5943
5944@UH2V
59451. I challenge you to talk about something that hasn't been discussed before.
59462. I think the best element is mercury. Anyone want to prove me wrong?
5947
5948==================================================
5949
59509132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/13 23:17
5951
5952@OwenDaPanda
5953We have all sorts of factual evidence. We have thousands of witness'. An RPG might of been set off. And the people on the airplane were probably prisoners from a terrorist country. Also, I really don't think that it was a passenger airplane in the first place. Planes shouldn't be flying near those buildings in the first place.
5954
5955==================================================
5956
5957OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/13 23:56
5958
5959@9132
5960Everyone just thinks they saw the planes. There weren't actually planes. They saw the explosions and some brought up the idea of a plane hitting the buildings. This idea spreaded, and soon, due to the power of suggestion, people started to think that it had been planes.
5961
5962==================================================
5963
59649132 #2					#bmL0OYbZ 2017/09/14 01:01
5965
5966@OwenDaPanda
5967How many times do I have to tell you that they were airliners. The government cleared them as" Hijacked PASSENGER AIRPLANES". Is that enough proof? 
5968
5969Although I said they probably weren't passenger airplanes, I go with what the government said. Not what you think up.
5970
5971==================================================
5972
5973OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/14 01:11
5974
5975@9132
5976The thing is, the government cleared them as hijacked passenger airlines, but that was the very same government who is possibly the organization behind the 9/11 bombs. They cleared them as "passenger airlines" because that's what they wanted people to belive.
5977
5978==================================================
5979
5980Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/14 02:15
5981
5982Except they have nothing to gain, it comes back to that "nobody with those logistics would be that stupid" thing again. People generally avoid spending large amounts of time and resources on something unless they get something more valuable for it.
5983
5984==================================================
5985
5986OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/14 03:41
5987
5988They get war
5989
5990==================================================
5991
59929132					#bmL0OYbZ 2017/09/14 04:48
5993
5994Maybe they had an abundance of materials and decided to have a little "fun".
5995
5996==================================================
5997
5998Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/14 05:08
5999
6000War is a means not an end.
6001
6002==================================================
6003
6004Madisonflame			#kdpeI8WM 2017/09/14 05:17
6005
6006I told you guys to stop bloody talking about it!
6007
6008==================================================
6009
6010Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/14 05:19
6011
6012Yeah well, we don't know you and have no reason to value your opinion more than usual.
6013
6014==================================================
6015
60169132 					#bmL0OYbZ 2017/09/14 05:24
6017
6018WE'LL NEVER FREAKIN' STOP!!!
6019
6020==================================================
6021
6022OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/14 05:55
6023
6024There was no reason they just wanted a war cause they were psychopaths!
6025
6026==================================================
6027
60284783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/14 06:54
6029
6030yeah, there's not much debate on this subject. 
6031
6032================================================== {Topic shift 3}
6033
6034amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/14 07:48
6035
6036Increase NASA's budget. There really is no reason not to.
6037
6038==================================================
6039
6040Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/14 08:01
6041
6042Seconded.
6043
6044https://pastebin.com/8SmwfGwk {https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-official-nasa-s-peer-reviewed-em-drive-paper-has-finally-been-published}
6045
6046All we need is to refine this thing and strap it onto a drilling rig and we'll basically be post-scarcity from all the asteroid mining. It's an investment with infinite returns.
6047
6048==================================================
6049
6050Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/14 08:11
6051
6052If they were psychopaths, then what's holding them back from just declaring war directly? Clearly they wouldn't care what the US population thought of them. If they weren't *really* psychopaths, it would be stupid to want war, just because of how many important resources it takes away.
6053
6054==================================================
6055
6056hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/09/14 09:18
6057
6058Also, if we increase NASA's budget, we could set up a helium mining colony on the moon, which would be helpful because that helium (specifically Helium-3) could be used to power some other machines, and it could be used for other things helium is used for.
6059
6060==================================================
6061
6062amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/14 10:01
6063
6064@TK
6065I dont really know what an EM drive is. Someone give me an ELI5?
6066
6067@hotdogeater
6068We're running out of He-3. Support.
6069
6070==================================================
6071
6072Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/14 10:32
6073
6074My understanding is that it's a copper cone that you bounce microwave radiation into and somehow that creates thrust; so it's a purely electric rocket.
6075
6076The first round of testing has been done and while nobody understands how exactly it works (this thing is in violation of Newton's Second Law by not throwing anything out the back end to move forward.) NASA was unable to prove it didn't work and so Russia and China have started on their own prototypes and if the mad science continues to pan out we're basically guaranteed several space-mines in the next few years.
6077
6078==================================================
6079
6080hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/09/14 10:39
6081
6082Another great thing about a colony on the moon is we could launch rockets from the moon, which would be way easier as 1. you dont have to deal with an atmosphere and 2. lower gravity.
6083
6084==================================================
6085
6086amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/14 11:28
6087
6088@TK
6089Could we use that to generate energy? I would totally support this.
6090
6091@hotdogeater
6092You also have to launch stuff from earth to get to the moon, so it kinda defeats the point. Unless we get a fully selfsustaining moon colony, which will also need to get people there.
6093
6094==================================================
6095
6096U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#5mbMD9a9 2017/09/14 12:16
6097
6098How is this related to the Powder Games?
6099
6100==================================================
6101
6102Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/14 12:44
6103
6104I doubt it, by all reports, the thrust it generates is somewhat inefficient compared to standard jet propulsion. The important thing is that the EM drive doesn't need fuel to function, which means an EM drive vehicle design wouldn't be weighed down by fuel tanks and so would require less energy/material to launch and accelerate in a vacuum.
6105
6106==================================================
6107
6108Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/14 22:30
6109
6110@amazingdude
6111We send the materials to build a launch pad, rocket parts, etc. so that we can launch multiple rockets without having to worry about getting them there. By this time we should be able to deliver cargo to the moon relatively easily. I think we could probably do it without a permanent colony.
6112
6113==================================================
6114
61159132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/14 23:39
6116
6117How much is an EM Drive? LoL.
6118
6119==================================================
6120
61214783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/15 06:02
6122
6123@9132
6124Shuffles through dusty files, "Let's see..., Ah! Would you like your EM drive new or used? If you buy two it comes with free two day shipping" 
6125
6126==================================================
6127
6128amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/15 08:20
6129
6130@TK
6131I was thinking thrust onto a turbine that collects energy, if it can get past the static friction. Get a sh,itload of these together and we'd have a steady source of power.
6132
6133@Draco
6134That seems feasible.
6135
6136==================================================
6137
6138skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/15 09:21
6139
6140Remember, there's no such thing as "free energy".
6141
6142==================================================
6143
6144amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/15 09:43
6145
6146@skyk
6147Remember that magnet engine a few months ago? There must be SOMETHING that can provide free energy.
6148
6149I never posted the great debate backup here, so I'll do so. I'll probably post it once a week, the idea is that the debate would be less lkely to be lost entirely if the backups contain other backups.
6150https://pastebin.com/0gwFRWk9
6151
6152==================================================
6153
6154Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/15 10:52
6155
6156@amazingdude
6157EM drives require a source of microwaves to function, and every test done has uses artificial microwaves from electricity and a portion of that function was naturally wasted as heat like every other reaction; so getting energy out of this is like piping some of the water from a watercooler to use as coolant, and then pouring the part that didn't evaporate back into the top of the cooler and claiming it creates water. It would only "generate" power if that microwave source was natural but there's probably better uses for natural microwaves than a windmill in space. (Spacemill?)
6158
6159==================================================
6160
6161Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/15 11:43
6162
6163@amazingdude
6164For an indefinite amount of time? Probably not, because of the laws of thermodynamics.
6165But if quantum mechanics can contradict Newton's Third Law, I suppose anything is possible.
6166
6167==================================================
6168
6169skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/15 23:23
6170
6171@AD
6172That magnet thing wouldn't work, and doesn't work. Many people have tried it. If it worked, we'd have been using it to power trains and carriages since the 1800s. There are many youtube videos of supposed magnet-based free energy generators, but these are either demonstrable hoaxes with hidden motors, or just devices no better than a wheel which would slow to a stop under any friction.
6173
6174The idea of free energy goes against the most basic concepts of entropy. At best, you can just increase the efficiency of energy generation, but some energy will always be lost. If you want to see compelling (but still impossible) ideas for perpetual motion devices, you should look to what actual physicists have designed as thought experiments, like the Brownian Ratchet.
6175
6176==================================================
6177
61789132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/15 23:29
6179
6180Magnets use magnetical energy, so it isn't entirely "free". Using big enough magnets may work, Although you would need them as big as windmills.
6181
6182==================================================
6183
6184Omega16					#ThE7mUFZ 2017/09/16 02:24
6185
6186Actually, probably bigger than that in order to get any really noticeable effects.
6187
6188==================================================
6189
6190Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/16 07:36
6191
6192And contain it how?
6193
6194==================================================
6195
61964783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/16 09:04
6197
6198Let's see, the new argument is about perpetual motion? You got to be kidding me! Here's are new EM drive: water hits wheel, wheel turns and and brings it back up, well..., that isn't that just to good to be true. :)
6199
6200==================================================
6201
6202Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/16 09:45
6203
6204@4783937279458294
6205"EM drive" isn't code or whatever for something that generates energy, it's a potential fuel-less propulsion method for space travel that amazingdude thinks can be harnessed for energy.
6206
6207==================================================
6208
6209amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/16 11:23
6210
6211@TK
6212If you can provide infinite thrust, you can harvest the thrust to generate energy. Attatch it to a windmill or something.
6213But hey, we have fossil fuels to rely on for the next few centuries, and nuclear after that.
6214
6215@Skyk
6216I believe in perpetual motion. Yes, I do know about Newton's laws.
6217
6218==================================================
6219
6220skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/16 11:56
6221
6222you can't provide "infinite thrust". Any thrust the EM drive generates requires an input of electrical current, which will always be higher than the amount of current it could generate by harvesting the thrust. That's like plugging a flashlight into a solar panel and trying to get infinite energy by shining the light onto the panel. I absolutely cannot believe we're having this foolish argument again after physicists settled this literally hundreds of years ago.
6223
6224==================================================
6225
6226Madisonflame			#kdpeI8WM 2017/09/17 09:47
6227
6228....what's going up in here now?
6229
6230==================================================
6231
6232amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/17 11:53
6233
6234Oh wait, that machine DOES require electric input? I thought it just spontaneously generated microwaves which created thrust.
6235
6236==================================================
6237
6238hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/09/17 12:14
6239
6240A good idea to get energy for that involves hydrogen, pressure, heat, and control mechanisms. We already harnessed the power of fusion for our destructive tendencies. Now we should harness it to produce energy... if we can.
6241
6242==================================================
6243
62444783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/17 12:55
6245
6246@Torture King
6247I have a better idea, lets have huge photon sails instead of EM drives. 
6248
6249==================================================
6250
6251Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/17 13:17
6252
6253Why not both? Solar sails don't have launching capability, EM drives are largely being hailed as the replacement for rockets.
6254
6255==================================================
6256
6257Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/18 00:00
6258
6259I've always wondered if there was a way to harness forces that pretty much existed no matter what, like a gravity-powered engine or something. We can apparently obtain solar energy, but it's not something to rely on.
6260
6261==================================================
6262
62634783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/18 01:12
6264
6265@Torture King
6266Well..., we should not forget to add a Warp drive. ;)
6267
6268==================================================
6269
6270skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/18 01:17
6271
6272@dracobot
6273Forces that act as a vector in both directions (gravity, tension, magnetism) are typically not feasible as sources of energy, because they take just as much energy to set up as they can maximally generate by reaching equilibrium, some of which is then lost when converting to electricity. If you wanted to harvest gravity, you'd need a source of high potential energy, like catching meteorites as they fall or something, which seems a lot less reliable than solar energy.
6274
6275==================================================
6276
6277Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/18 05:33
6278
6279AFAIK warp drives don't exist yet, the background science for folding space mechanically doesn't exist yet. Meanwhile, NASA just got done with the first round of tests for the EM drive and couldn't prove that it doesn't function as advertised- even if they're not quite sure how. (My bet is on the microwaves becoming particles at some point when they're not observed within the cone, thus having the mass to cause impact force and push the drive forward but becoming massless waves again before leaving and appearing to violate Newton's Second Law- or some other quantum mechanics bullshittery like that, every science even approaching that stuff sounds like handwaving for magic.)
6280
6281==================================================
6282
6283amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/18 13:21
6284
6285Why dont we give NASA more funding so we can develop a warp drive, EM drive, antimatter energy, etc.? For eveyr $1 we drop into NASA, our GDP gains $10 from technologies developed by NASA. The moon landing helped get us personal computers for example.
6286
6287==================================================
6288
6289Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/18 14:35
6290
6291Is there any possible way that we know of that bends space other than adding and taking away mass?
6292
6293==================================================
6294
62959132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/18 23:14
6296
6297@Dracobot
6298There is wormholes, but they tear ships apart. They also allow time travel!
6299
6300==================================================
6301
6302skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/18 23:17
6303
6304We still don't know for sure that wormholes can allow for time travel, but it'd be pretty cool if that works someday. I actually have my own theories about time travel which could be a bit more feasible if the wormhole thing doesn't work out, but it would have its own restrictions.
6305
6306==================================================
6307
63089132 					#bmL0OYbZ 2017/09/19 01:46
6309
6310@skyk
6311It worked, but we can't control where we go or when we go. Also, if you watched the movie about wormholes, you may find specific clues about how they work. And Dracobot, thats how a wormhole works. It is a bend in space that you can travel through.
6312
6313==================================================
6314
6315Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/19 06:50
6316
6317I was under the impression that wormholes are just an explanation for black holes' supposedly infinite mass, when exactly did we find one outside of science fiction?
6318
6319I do remember CERN doing what ended up being a time-travel experiment, it involved a photon that they accelerated so fast in a circle that it randomly deflected off course. The best hypothesis at the time was that the photon was interfering with it's own past trajectory.
6320
6321==================================================
6322
6323Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/19 07:42
6324
6325@9132
6326Yes, I know about wormholes and understand how they work. But don't they involve mass in some way, like with black holes?
6327
6328==================================================
6329
63309132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/20 00:13
6331
6332@Dracobot
6333Imagine a non-opened soda can. Lets say the soda can is a part of space. Now, if you see, if you crumble the pressurized soda can, it's smaller, but pressurized. And I do believe there is some mass in the wormhole that is kind of the more pressurized soda can.
6334
6335==================================================
6336
6337Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/21 10:57
6338
6339@9132
6340Possibly, but the only thing density affects in this circumstance is how spread out the force of gravity is.
6341
6342================================================== {Topic shift 4}
6343
6344hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/09/23 06:47
6345
6346I am disappointed that there are still people that seriously believe the earth is flat.
6347
6348==================================================
6349
63504783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/23 08:56
6351
6352@hotdogeater1000
6353Duh..., did you think it was a cube. 
6354
6355==================================================
6356
6357Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/23 09:36
6358
6359In Poincaré space, the world is flat.
6360
6361==================================================
6362
6363Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/23 11:58
6364
6365https://i.imgur.com/OUuX5Ys.jpg
6366
6367{If the world were flat, cats would have pushed everything off it by now}
6368
6369==================================================
6370
6371amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/23 12:21
6372
6373Honestly most of the flat earthers are either trolls or mentally insane. Theres no way they can be serious.
6374
6375==================================================
6376
6377Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/23 23:07
6378
6379how do you know it's not flat?
6380
6381==================================================
6382
63839132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/24 00:50
6384
6385@Minisheme
6386You are a fucking retard.
6387
6388==================================================
6389
63900b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/09/24 02:00
6391
6392@Minisheme
6393->Gravity going down instead of some point on Earth
6394->While somewhere is day, somewhere else is night
6395->Most flatearther use fake fact that doesn't make any sense.
6396
6397==================================================
6398
6399Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/24 02:04
6400
6401so? we don't even know how gravitons work. why would it not be possible for one area to be day and one area night on a flat earth? you can't disprove flat earth if left to your own devices.
6402
6403==================================================
6404
64059132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/24 03:25
6406
6407Again, your retarded.
6408
6409==================================================
6410
6411Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/09/24 03:58
6412
6413For a second I thought there was a genuine flat-earther in the comments section and was readying my arguments and statistics. 
6414
6415==================================================
6416
6417hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/09/24 06:18
6418
6419Did you know that the bolivian salt flats are actually so flat that you can (barely) see the roundness of the earth. If you took a well done picture, the middle and the left section would be a pixel or two away vertically
6420
6421==================================================
6422
6423Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/24 13:18
6424
6425"your retarded" nice one mate
6426
6427@tyne and wear
6428the merit of flat-earther stuff is that almost no one actually has a leg to stand on against them.
6429
6430==================================================
6431
6432Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/24 13:24
6433
6434@9132
6435You can't call someone stupid without providing a counter argument. That's basically what happened to Copernicus and anyone prior to the 20th century who believed in germs. (0b1111, close enough.)
6436
6437For all we know, the Earth could be flat. It could even be basin-shaped and everything that we've seen that provides evidence to a spherical Earth could be explained by other things such as our perception of the universe being completely incorrect. I was joking about the Poincaré space earlier, but as an example, the Earth could very well not be a sphere if space was non-Euclidean, which I believe it is even though the idea entirely contradicts how we perceive the universe.
6438
6439@hotdogeater1000
6440You mean Bonneville Salt Flats?
6441
6442==================================================
6443
64440b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/09/24 14:17
6445
6446@Minsheme
6447->Gravty works towards to object.
6448->If Earth would be flat sun will be on the up side of earth or down side of earth. Will not be able to be both.
6449
6450==================================================
6451
6452Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/24 14:31
6453
6454"works towards to object"? we don't know how gravitons transmit the force of gravity at a quantum level.
6455https://i.imgur.com/eyuUVdc.gif
6456
6457{So it happens that people believing in a flat Earth have an explanation for night and day occuring at the same time in different places on Earth. 
6458
6459According to some, the Sun doesn't shine in every direction, but is rather a kind of spot light hovering above us, and rotating around the North pole.. right. Like it's still in the sky at any time, but when you're not below it, then it's night. 
6460
6461Well I gave it a fair thought, because it would be unscientific not to. They have ad hoc explanations for a lot of objections you could make, that is they can refute points taken individually. The forums of Flat Earth Society is a treasure box of those ideas. 
6462
6463But it all boils down to this : none of them do any maths. There's never been in history a model of a flat Earth with equations that can account for movements in the sky, predict the position of planets, etc.. like the Round Earth supporters do. 
6464
6465For example in this diagram, what would be the radius of the Sun's rotation ? What would be the size of the area it can illuminate ? Those nice ideas have never been backed up with any verifiable numeric data. 
6466
6467So I guess I'll let myself brainwashed by NASA a while longer, as long as the mainstream model provides predictable events..}
6468
6469==================================================
6470
64710b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/09/24 16:11
6472
6473->we don't know what forces gravity at quantum level, but know at regular what forces gravity at regular level /*mass*/.
6474->The sun's light travel at almost 299,792,458 metres per second. That way light could not just stom at some point, sun and moon will both be always visible and night would not ever exist.
6475
6476==================================================
6477
6478Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/24 21:36
6479
6480that diagram does not show height of the sun or moon
6481
6482==================================================
6483
6484Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/24 22:00
6485
6486Quantum mechanics are rather irrelevant when you're talking about that much mass. There's a reason nobody noticed them until long after neutron microscopes were invented.
6487
6488Also, what's underneath the Earth then? The rotting corpse of a primordial giant? An endless tower of tortoises? Half-Life 3?
6489
6490==================================================
6491
6492danstroyer				#eGPLCtF1 2017/09/24 22:17
6493
6494y r we talking about gravity?
6495
6496==================================================
6497
6498Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/24 22:45
6499
6500quantum physics doesn't always mean "crazy ambiguous magic that allows anything to happen". every type of force has a corresponding particle that transmits that force, we don't know how this works with gravity/gravitons.
6501
6502==================================================
6503
6504Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/25 00:11
6505
6506And besides, the sun may be above us, but *appear* to be going past the horizon at sunset. Space may be curved in the form of a dome above us, causing light to bend back and miss us. If we traveled in a straight line to a seemingly random point in space at night, we might eventually reach an area near the sun because of the way space is bent (not to the sun because if that were the case, light would reach us, but I'm assuming nothing else isn't bending the light as well).
6507
6508==================================================
6509
6510hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/09/25 07:57
6511
6512@AD {Dracobot}
6513Nope, bolivian salt flats, or as they know it, Salar de Uyuni.
6514
6515==================================================
6516
65170b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/09/25 14:57
6518
6519@Minsheme
6520->quantum physics doesn't always mean "crazy ambiguous magic that allows anything to happen",but means "crazy theory that explains the world in lots of formulas"
6521->We still know that mass forces gravity, and scientists know more than we.
6522->The sun's light travel at almost 299,792,458 metres per second. That way light could not just stop at some point, sun and moon will both be always visible and night would not ever exist TO ANY FINITE HEIGHT. More height will mean that we will wait more to light comes to Earth, but not that whole planet will not be lighted up.
6523
6524explanation "TO ANY FINITE HEIGHT"
6525->As absolute impossiblillity to height be infinie, as our universe is finite /*Otherwise it couldn't grow and extend*/ logically height would be finite.
6526
6527==================================================
6528
65299132					#YzWLU8MF 2017/09/26 00:50
6530
6531@Dracobot
6532How would the earth sustain water if it was flat? Also, the earth would have two sides. Also, water would just run off.
6533
6534==================================================
6535
6536herecomesmichael		#68cDLTHg 2017/09/26 01:50
6537
6538to everyone talking about a flat earth: it's super easy to disprove. if you went to the south pole (which would be the ""edge"" of the earth) and moved around, you would fly around the edge like crazy. also, how would you be able to walk /through/ the south pole? that would have to be some sort of Portal-type science because you would just fall off the edge!
6539
6540also what would be on the other side of the earth??? (i know @TK already said this but i want to emphasize it) really! would it be like, hel? or would it be some alternate world exactly like ours??????
6541
6542all in all, flat-earthers honestly don't know what they're talking about. i rest my case.
6543
6544==================================================
6545
6546Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/26 07:31
6547
6548Jesus Christ, you guys are actually discussing this?
6549Ahhh, I guess I have to participate..
6550
6551https://pastebin.com/q5GREHby {https://pastebin.com/17yzXVHV}
6552
6553Despite the bizzarre idea, there actually is some pretty logical reasoning behind believing the earth flat (SOME). I myself do believe that the earth is a spherical shape.
6554 
6555The first thing we need to discuss is how to calculate the curvature of the earth.
6556"Using the theorem of Pythagoras a2 = 39632 + 12 = 15705370 and thus a = 3963.000126 miles. Thus your position is 3963.000126 - 3963 = 0.000126 miles above the surface of the earth. 0.000126 miles = 1252800.000126 = 7.98 inches. Hence the earth's surface curves approximately 8 inches in one mile."
6557So, the earth curves 8" per mile squared. Chart for reference: http://www.smokescreendesign.com/images/earth-curve-calcuation.jpg
6558 
6559Let's take a look at some examples of really tall structures that are really far away that can be seen.
6560 
6561This is a picture of the Chicago Skyline taken from across the lake: http://i.imgur.com/2sbFc9N.jpg
6562The distance between from where the picture was taken and the base of the Willis Tower (the really tall one) itself is a little more than 50 miles.
6563To calculate exactly how much of the building should be covered by the earth itself, we use the formula above:
6564 
6565    8" * (50^2) = 20000" = 1666+(2/3)'
6566 
6567The height of the building itself is about 1400', so by logic, the earth would cover it up entirely, right?
6568 
6569False, because of my little friend Light Refraction (this is where the logical reason supporting flat-earth stops):
6570    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
6571
6572In short, light will travel in a straight line for a certain distance before it starts to droop downward due to gravity, temperature, air pressure, and a few other things, so the light "droops" around the curvature of the earth so we can see things further away. This bit of science causes distortions in the light, which is why the buildings in the picture are kinda blurry. There's some MAJOR distortion in this picture:
6573    http://www.asterism.org/images/atmo07.jpg
6574
6575because the light image is going through a LOT more atphosphere than the light coming from the buildings in the other picture, so it's being affected by gravity, air particles, etc. much more, creating a more distorted image. This evidence has been supported many times by this experiment:
6576    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment
6577
6578However, it has been used to support both round-earth and flat-earth, so take it as you will.
6579
6580==================================================
6581
65824783937279458294		#bS1191YD 2017/09/26 09:25
6583
6584Well..., it's a very common principal that the earth is a cube.
6585
6586==================================================
6587
6588U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/09/26 10:10
6589
6590What the #@#$@$@#$@#@$@#$#@$@ are you commenting about the Powder Game 2 comment board is not for posting whatever you want
6591
6592==================================================
6593
6594OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/26 11:07
6595
6596What word is that long uh2v?
6597Also, no one care about the fact that it is RECOMMENDED that you should post about pg2 stuff
6598
6599==================================================
6600
6601Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/26 12:49
6602
6603lol, 0b111, the reason I mentioned height is that the moon would block the sun's light over part of the earth. they rotate and you get night and day.
6604
6605==================================================
6606
6607Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/26 12:52
6608
6609@herecomesmichael
6610no one can attest to travelling to where the "edges" would be and all the way around (i.e. south pole or north pole like you said, or middle of the pacific, wherever it may be)
6611
6612also, there are many anomalies of travel when people are in landscapes such as oceans or tundra -- commonly, they end up travelling in a circle if they don't know where they're going, even if they're trying to go in a straight line.
6613
6614==================================================
6615
6616Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/26 13:01
6617
6618https://pastebin.com/7JeUNi4x
6619
6620The curvature of space plays a huge part in this theory, so you'll hear it a lot in this post. If you ever doubt me in any of it, take a topology class.
6621
6622@0b1111
6623The universe is (probably) a 4-sphere; infinite height may be perfectly possible.
6624
6625@9132
6626What herecomesmichael said. You would fly around the edge like crazy because that is how space is bent. If you went there, it would all appear connected like normal because of that, and since it appears normal from a Euclidean viewpoint nothing can ever "fall off of" the Earth (the molecules are resting on each other).
6627
6628The Earth doesn't have two sides from this theory (I guess it technically does, but the underside is dome-shaped). It's the way space is bent: straight lines going through the Earth appear to arc and come out (on the same side) a distance from the input exactly equal to the radius (to visualize this, imagine a line coming into a point that represents the South Pole and going out at the North Pole, and you can move this line however you want, as long as it passes over the North Pole at some point). Many models are possible, but this is one of the easiest to understand.
6629
6630@herecomesmichael
6631Not quite. There is a vertical *geometric line* (a space of literally 0 width) at the South Pole in the theory. It is impossible for anything to occupy that space, so nothing would escape the space that way.
6632
6633"Off of the edge of Earth" is actually (due to the way space is curved) directly above the South Pole. Remember that dome-above-the-Earth model I mentioned earlier? It extends down "around" the sides of the Earth.
6634
6635@4783937279458294
6636If gravity and space were cubic to compensate, this could be true.
6637
6638==================================================
6639
6640Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/26 13:16
6641
6642I just realized: is UH2V really stixx44 who came back more sane?
6643
6644==================================================
6645
6646amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/26 14:34
6647
6648So the earth is essentially a 4d flat plane? Perhaps we're living on the 3d surface of a 4d shape. This shit is beyond me.
6649
6650==================================================
6651
66520b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/09/26 14:35
6653
6654@Minsheme
6655when moon block sun's light it is not night but solar eclipse. Also sun/moon would not be on Earth`s horizon. also Earth can block sun's light to moon and that is why moon is sometimes all blank.
6656
6657==================================================
6658
6659Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/26 22:25
6660
6661The Earth's "horizon" is a small circle around your location. And a lunar eclipse is possible when the sun is above one side while the moon is above the other, equidistant from the equator (the concentric circle halfway between the North and South Poles) on the other side of it.
6662
6663Though the moon isn't invisible during a total lunar eclipse. It takes on a reddish hue.
6664
6665==================================================
6666
6667what					#qIxfI5th 2017/09/27 01:57
6668
6669cmon dudes, lets set aside our differences and enjoy the beauty that is Powder Gameâ„¢
6670
6671==================================================
6672
6673Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/27 05:26
6674
6675okay I am out of arguments for flat earth good chat brothas
6676
6677==================================================
6678
6679Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/27 07:57
6680
6681Yeah, I wasn't sure where you were going with the eclipse=nighttime argument.
6682
6683==================================================
6684
6685Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/27 08:22
6686
6687@Dracobot
6688http://i.xomf.com/qfysf.png
6689
6690==================================================
6691
6692COMMENT BOT				#h3LXayCp 2017/09/27 11:57
6693
6694i want to make any possible for the earth then the flat earth good chat brothas. 
6695
6696==================================================
6697
6698Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/27 13:19
6699
6700@Vidkunssonn
6701See comment 2017/09/25 00:11.
6702
6703{And besides, the sun may be above us, but *appear* to be going past the horizon at sunset. Space may be curved in the form of a dome above us, causing light to bend back and miss us. If we traveled in a straight line to a seemingly random point in space at night, we might eventually reach an area near the sun because of the way space is bent (not to the sun because if that were the case, light would reach us, but I'm assuming nothing else isn't bending the light as well).}
6704
6705==================================================
6706
6707Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/27 13:39
6708
6709@dracobot
6710I never really implied that an eclipse would cause night, it was bad wording maybe. the sun and moon would have to be at very different heights if the earth was literally a flat plain like people assume is the only option.
6711
6712==================================================
6713
6714Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/27 20:01
6715
6716http://i.xomf.com/czmgc.png
6717
6718==================================================
6719
6720Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/28 09:58
6721
6722@Vidkunssonn
6723Bending the wrong way. Just because light extends in all directions doesn't mean any directions lead to the observer.
6724
6725Wait, I take that back. That is the correct way space would be bent. But my second point still stands.
6726
6727==================================================
6728
6729amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/02 12:45
6730
6731https://pastebin.com/cGxGHpG8
6732Sorry im a bit late, I had surgery recently. Thats just another debate archive btw
6733
6734==================================================
6735
6736amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/03 15:07
6737
6738so it seems the debate is actually dead, for real this time.
6739Twas a fun time.
6740
6741================================================== {Topic shift 5}
6742
6743amazingdude						  2017/10/05 02:20
6744
6745Lets talk about date formats. ISO8601 best format (YYYY-MM-DD)
6746
6747==================================================
6748
6749nobody					#nf4Fsixs 2017/10/05 12:27
6750
6751please don't start another debate, I beg of you. 
6752
6753==================================================
6754
6755amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/05 14:00
6756
6757We're trying to break the record of 8 years.
6758Technically only 4 because the middle of the debate went missing and we only have the last 4 years and the first few months. We cannot prove that they arent 2 seperate debates. While I do believe TK's statement of 8 years, its one of those things that you just cant prove. (Which is why I'm backing up this debate!)
6759
6760==================================================
6761
67629132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/10/05 23:45
6763
6764@amazingdude
6765Date Formats? END ME
6766
6767==================================================
6768
6769Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/06 01:15
6770
6771I think kyoto had another one, but he doesn't stick around very much since shipping out to Afghanistan for me to politely ask about it.
6772
6773==================================================
6774
6775hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/10/06 08:45
6776
6777Although its not entirely clear, there is actually some sense in MM/DD/YYYY. Month can have a max number of 12 (if you are using the standard 12 month calendar). Day can have a max value of 31. Year can have up to infinity, although it will never get up to infinity as a result of the inevitable heat death of the universe in which nothing will ever change, again, and the universe will be a dark place, a very dark place with some particles here and there. Although, DD/MM/YYYY or YYYY/MM/DD kinda make more sense.
6778
6779==================================================
6780
6781Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/06 09:41
6782
6783By that logic, YY/MM/DD/YY is the superior format because the first two digits of the year will likely only go up to 30 or so before we restart the calendar in commemoration of a unified world government or something while the last two go up to 99.
6784
6785==================================================
6786
6787U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/06 10:19
6788
6789Thanks for 1K votes total and WHY ARE YOU COMMENTING ABOUT DATE FORMATS???
6790
6791==================================================
6792
6793Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/06 11:54
6794
6795Why are you not?
6796
6797==================================================
6798
6799U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/06 12:16
6800
6801BECAUSE THAT'S NOT POWDER GAME 2 OR DAN-BALL RELATED.
6802
6803==================================================
6804
6805Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/06 12:20
6806
6807@hotdogeater1000
6808I feel like you're trying to tell us something most people would feel bad about to get the same reaction from us and make you look cooler by appearing to us as if you don't care about this fact and/or know about it even though the mere attempt of such an action and said action's revelation by me to the other inhabitants of the Comment Boards only make you appear rather less cool in our eyes but we choose not to respond about it or care because there is no point to address such a trivial error from someone so you take away from the situation the misconception that we were affected by your comment in a way that made us feel inferior to you which make you feel superior to them even though apparently unbeknownst to you we are fully aware of the fact that you just presented and the meaning behind it and your feelings of superiority are thus rendered meaningless so everyone and the circumstances as a whole would have benefited more had you not posted that addendum to your participation in the current discussion.
6809
6810WELL IT WORKED!!! :'(
6811
6812Also, I think it's because it reflects the typical formal way of writing the date: Month D, Year.
6813
6814==================================================
6815
6816amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/06 12:48
6817
6818https://pastebin.com/R4p17hSS
6819
6820Todays date in DD-MM-YYYY: 06-10-2017
6821Todays date in MM-DD-YYYY: 10-06-2017
6822Todays date in YYYY-MM-DD: 2017-10-06
6823 
6824@TK
6825 
6826I guess you can try to google it and maybe find the pastebin. Besides, he may not even have it anymore.
6827 
6828@hotdogeater
6829 
6830While I dont like MM-DD-YYYY, I absolutely HATE DD-MM-YYYY. It makes no sense written out in numerical form. Sure, smallest to biggest, right? Well, not really. Take todays date: 2017-10-06. If it was REALLY smallest to biggest, it would be 60-01-7102, which makes zero sense. You can't arrange numbers (which are written in descending order) in ascending order. It just doesnt make sense from a mathematical perspective.
6831 
6832Imagine it this way: Each chunk of the date is a number, written in descending order. When you go from the 6 to the 1, you are going from the 1 day digit (6) to the 10 month digit (1). Again, going from the 1 month digit (0) to the 1000 year digit (2). This is 2 interruptions. It's not just a smooth flow upwards, as you arent going to the next significant digit: You are skipping around.
6833 
6834"Well, is MM-DD-YYYY any better?" Well, yeah! It's got only one break (10 days digit (6) to the 1000 year digit (2). It conveniently divides the date in half into two descending streams. The time of the year, and the year itself. While not as good as YYYY-MM-DD, it sure as hell is better than DD-MM-YYYY.
6835 
6836"But the day is the most important part!" Well, not really. "The sixth". Sixth of what? October 2017? January 1472? The day tells you NOTHING about when something happened. Neither does having the month first, but its less shitty. The year provides when an event happened in history. "But its not useful for common use!" Why do we need two seperate formats for common and professional use? After all, we don't need to keep saying "twenty" in front of the year, because that wont change for 83 years. Let's say 1720 instead!
6837 
6838The previous 2 paragraphs probably didnt make sense to anyone, but its how I think. This shitty MSpaint should help a bit: https://i.imgur.com/dVWdSMr.png
6839 
6840Another reason is for consistency. TK's comment wasnt written on 41:09. 1 million is not 000,000,1. Today shouldnt be 06-10-2017. Write it like we write everything else involving numbers, 2017-10-06. Don't get me started on sorting.
6841 
6842This always gets misinterpreted as defending MM-DD-YYYY. I'm not defending this outdated (heh) date format. It's almost as bad as DD-MM-YYYY. Both formats need to be replaced with the international date standard.
6843 
6844Another analogy would be dividing the year up. YYYY-MM-DD is 2017, MM-DD-YYYY is 1720, and DD-MM-YYYY is 7120. Or, HGFE-DC-BA, BA-DC-HGFE, vs DC-BA-HGFE.I hope you can see why I feel this way. I'm sorry if it feels ranty, but I have very strong feelings on this.
6845 
6846https://i.imgur.com/At3sqEo.png
6847https://i.imgur.com/s4D0Z9N.png
6848https://i.imgur.com/iSFyZDd.png
6849
6850@Uh2v
6851What else can we talk about?
6852
6853==================================================
6854
6855U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/06 14:11
6856
6857if you can't think of anything to talk about other than random stuff, then just don't post at all. :/
6858
6859==================================================
6860
6861Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/06 22:37
6862
6863@amazingdude
6864What? I don't think he meant *literally* write it backwards.
6865
6866==================================================
6867
6868Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/06 22:48
6869
6870@UH2V
6871If the admins didn't like polite off-topic discussion in the comment boards they would have cracked down on it years ago. You're not the boss of anyone here, and the more you harp on about this the less anyone is going to value your opinions on other subjects.
6872
6873==================================================
6874
6875amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/09 08:03
6876
6877@Uh2v
6878I can post whatever I want. Everyone here is alright with it. This game is pretty much dead. There's nothing to talk about thats not asking for votes.
6879
6880@Dracobot
6881I was providing evidence that DD-MM-YYYY isnt truly ascending order.
6882
6883================================================== {Topic shift 6}
6884
6885Nepaterut				#Z5lByTDx 2017/10/09 09:29
6886
6887The earth is flat, and climate change is not real. NASA's been lying to yo guys.
6888
6889==================================================
6890
6891Jeffery					#eBoA4gmv 2017/10/09 12:26
6892
6893Nepaterut is wrong. The earth is a cube. Why are most world maps rectangular? They are stretching the cubic earth to fit on a wall, which is also why the poles are squished on maps: The top face of a cube must be squished in order to fit on a wall.
6894
6895Also, we can clearly tell because objects disappear beyond the horizon. If the earth was spherical or flat, they wouldnt disappear after a certain distance. What would it disappear behind?
6896
6897A cubic earth is the only reasonable explanation to many natural events, like time zones, seasons etc
6898
6899==================================================
6900
6901Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/09 14:24
6902
6903@amazingdude
6904An ordering of numbers is concerned with a set of numbers, not the digits themselves.
6905
6906==================================================
6907
6908Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/09 18:24
6909
6910There's more than 4 time zones though, for 24* timezones you'd need at least a prismic icositetragon. (totally googled that word, btw)
6911
6912*Physical timezones anyway, if you want a shape to have natural formations accounting for otherwise political phenomena like China running on it's own time then the geometry would get a bit complicated than a wannabe cylinder.
6913
6914==================================================
6915
6916amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/10 01:19
6917
6918@Nepaterut
6919Been there, done that. Read the last 4 month of the debate.
6920
6921@Jeffery
6922Are you fucking retarded? Even if the earth was a cube, gravity would collapse it back into a sphere. Everything you just said can be explained by a spherical earth. At least its more plausible than flat earth.
6923
6924@Draco
6925For some reason to me, it just seems wrong to order sets of numbers, which are descending, in ascending order. A date is made up of 3 sets of numbers. Each set itself is in descending order. You can order the sets any way you want, but it makes the most sense to order the whole date in descending order, because the parts of it are.
6926
6927==================================================
6928
6929βBETA					#nf4Fsixs 2017/10/10 04:34
6930
6931Why! HP, did you have to make cheesy injection molded screw holds that bust after seven years, I've had to hold up the screen with my hands due to the fact that the joints I reinforced with metal have snapped because of these cheesy injection molded screw holds. Microsoft, why in the world have you kept on asking me to "upgrade" my windows 7 to windows 10 and keep on doing it every 5 seconds of the living existence of me and this computer, now due to absence of screw holds I've had to hold up my computer screen with my right hand and type with my left, seriously just why. 
6932
6933==================================================
6934
6935Σsigma					#dGUQeyap 2017/10/10 07:58
6936
6937@amazingdude
6938Assuming gravity is a spherical force.
6939
6940Well, considering base-10 is just a representation of quantities, that should never be the case.
6941
6942@βBETA
6943The same thing happened to my computer (also 7-years old, coincidentally), only Microsoft eventually made it automatically update with the only way to stop it being an obscure window that opened behind my existing windows.
6944 
6945And by that I mean it updated and now I have Windows 10. But don't give up hope! Keep fighting! Be the one that wins against Microsoft!
6946
6947==================================================
6948
6949Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/10/10 08:07
6950
6951@Jeffery
6952>Why are most world maps rectangular?
6953https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/351448593690918924/367085622961242133/20171009_180642.jpg
6954
6955{Spider/cut up world map}
6956
6957I showed that pic to someone on a Discord guild and they responded "The earth is a spider with Down's syndrome"
6958
6959==================================================
6960
6961Jeffery					#cpWZHvVg 2017/10/10 11:30
6962
6963There are only 4 time zones, the government is lying to you.
6964
6965Gravity works in cubes. Objects are naturally drawn together as cubes. I specifically said that you cannot explain this shart with a spherical earth. Also, wouldnt we just slide off the spherical earth and fall into space? Even if we dont fall into space, we wouldnt be able to stand because it would be round.
6966
6967Nice spherical earth propaganda, vidkunson
6968
6969==================================================
6970
6971amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/10 14:39
6972
6973https://pastebin.com/mLRScjgw
6974
6975@Beta
6976Fuck that shit. Fuck forced updates in general.
6977 
6978@Esigma, Jeffery
6979Gravity is spherical. Every point on the surface of a sphere is equidistant to the center, compared to a cube, where the corners are further from the center than the middle of the faces. The matter on the corners would eventually be drawn to the faces because of this difference in distance, resulting in the object becoming more and more spherical over time.
6980 
6981The whole idea of gravity working in cubes is probably the dumbest thing ive heard. At least manmade global warming makes SOME sense (yet its still wrong). Gravity keeps you on the spherical earth.
6982 
6983Honestly I dont know how this dude can be serious.
6984 
6985@Vidkunssonn
6986I hate spider maps like those. They just..... no.
6987
6988==================================================
6989
6990hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/10/11 10:36
6991
6992Well, California is on fire.
6993
6994==================================================
6995
6996amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/11 11:44
6997
6998@Hotdogeater
6999https://i.imgur.com/ulP90gA.jpg
7000More pics upon request
7001
7002==================================================
7003
7004Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/12 04:06
7005
7006@amazingdude 
7007got any that contain flames?
7008
7009==================================================
7010
7011βBETA					#nf4Fsixs 2017/10/12 06:50
7012
7013In the part of California i'm in you can't see 3 feet in front you because of the smoke that has seemingly engulfed the entirety of the Bay Area.
7014inside it's no problem and i'm quite far from the actual fire so it was more of a exaggeration, but still you can smell it.
7015
7016==================================================
7017
7018dude					#YaahGxaG 2017/10/12 12:40
7019
7020looks like we had the wrong redit account for AD.
7021u/Rebel_Scum83 seems to be the real one, as he just posted a meme about PG in r/teenagers
7022
7023==================================================
7024
7025Jeffery					#405emkSl 2017/10/13 11:58
7026
7027Stop lying to people. Earth is a cube.
7028
7029==================================================
7030
7031βBETA					#nf4Fsixs 2017/10/13 12:28
7032
7033@Jeffery
7034dude...
7035
7036==================================================
7037
7038Jeffery					#ZmjIYd7P 2017/10/13 13:55
7039
7040Umm, because it IS a cube? Look at world maps. Do you see a circle? NO, its a rectngle, which you get from unwrapping a cube, dumbas!
7041
7042==================================================
7043
70440b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/10/13 14:10
7045
7046@Jeffery
7047The world maps are rectangle to be easy to print them. There are also globes that show how Earth really looks like.
7048
7049==================================================
7050
7051skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/14 04:34
7052
7053Is everyone missing the obvious problem that you don't get rectangles by unwrapping cubes?
7054
7055==================================================
7056
7057hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/10/14 07:23
7058
7059Yeah when you unwrap cubes, you get a cross. Also, theres quite a few maps that are actually ovals.
7060
7061==================================================
7062
7063amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/14 07:38
7064
7065@Skyk
7066I think hes doing this https://i.imgur.com/mcrCf8S.png
7067
7068Even if that was true, there would be triangular distortions on the poles.
7069How does a cubic earth explain oval maps?
7070
7071==================================================
7072
7073MidnightMonster			#VfijhzSI 2017/10/14 07:58
7074
7075I just want to know, why is there always arguing over what shape the Earth is?
7076
7077==================================================
7078
7079Jeffery					#L5YsAJw6 2017/10/14 15:40
7080
7081@Amazing
7082thats pretty much what I was trying to explain.
7083oval maps are a result of uneven spreading of the top and bottom faces across the whole rectangular map, making it appear ovular.
7084
7085==================================================
7086
70870b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/10/14 18:44
7088
7089@Jeffery
7090->So if Earth is cube, why globes are balls?
7091->Why all planets are balls or whatever round and Earth is cube?
7092
7093==================================================
7094
7095amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/15 04:14
7096
7097I explained earlier how a cubic planet will eventually collapse into an oblate spheroid. Even if one did exist, it wouldnt remain cubic for long due to asteroids and space weathering.
7098
7099==================================================
7100
7101Jeffery					#EddG4j3y 2017/10/15 17:04
7102
7103look i dont care if gravity makes things spherical or if world maps dont make sense, but the earth is a cube. its just that. i flew my drone into space and recorded video of the cubic earth
7104
7105==================================================
7106
71070b1111					#KIiGP8j5 2017/10/15 20:00
7108
7109@Jeffery
7110->You flied your drone in space. How you amplified signal long enought to it lasts up to space?
7111
7112==================================================
7113
7114amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/16 06:56
7115
7116So jeffery you basically deny all the science and just reply with "The earth is a cube. It just is." He's gotta be trolling.
7117
7118================================================== {Topic shift 7}
7119
7120卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐				#Q8zWCcgu 2017/10/17 15:00
7121
7122Sieg Heil! Aryan master race! Heil hitler!
7123
7124==================================================
7125
7126The_Leviathan			#dy5l8n9X 2017/10/17 21:27
7127
7128uh...
7129
7130==================================================
7131
7132amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/18 07:26
7133
7134lets talk about climate change again!
7135
7136==================================================
7137
7138Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/10/18 11:04
7139
7140＠卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐
7141Get a life you piece of shit
7142
7143==================================================
7144
7145U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/18 12:14
7146
7147@Vidkunssonn
7148STOP POSTING SWEAR WORDS LIKE SHIT AND STUFF
7149
7150==================================================
7151
7152卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐				#haSNizPU 2017/10/18 14:50
7153
7154White Power! The white man will once again return to superiority over his brown minions! Sieg Heil!
7155
7156End white genocide. Stop mass migration into white countries. "Diversity" is code word for anti white. DO NOT LET THE SUPERIOR ARYAN MASTER RACE GO EXTINCT!!!
7157
7158discord.gg/cpZ7VFx {???????????}
7159
7160==================================================
7161
7162The_Leviathan			#dy5l8n9X 2017/10/18 22:48
7163
7164@ 卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐 you wanna have a bad time? Cause if take ONE step forward, you are REALLY NOT GONNA like what happens next!
7165
7166==================================================
7167
7168Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/10/19 02:26
7169
7170@卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐
7171Lol yur race is fucked
7172
7173==================================================
7174
7175Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/19 06:04
7176
7177
7178I think you're confused. You're thinking that these races are the same:
71791. White people.
71802. White people who genuinely believe that race is a measurement of superiority.
7181
7182Pop quiz: Which of these two is actually dying out? (Hint: it's 2.)
7183
7184By the way, you sound like such an idiot when you say something like "'Diversity' is code word for anti white." At least troll with a little bit of effort; then it will be somewhat realistic.
7185
7186==================================================
7187
7188danstroyer				#4PtlYql6 2017/10/19 07:08
7189
7190. . . . . ummm . . . .
7191
7192==================================================
7193
7194Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/19 07:23
7195
7196About white supremacy: https://pastebin.com/3jBAQH6M
7197
7198@Draco
7199Group 2 is growing extremely quickly. If the left keep pushing as hard as they are, "white supremacy" will only get bigger. It's flourishing every day. However, what constitutes things now deemed "white supremacy", who knows. Whites are more suited to exist in western civilisation, other races have done nothing but obstruct it. Doesn't mean I have anything against non-whites. If Eastern Asia were put in the hands of whites, it would be a sh.itshow.
7200 
7201I believe this while simultaneously thinking that whites are a suicidally ingenuous race who are bringing about their own downfall. Hopefully, there will be an antifragile process from migration crises which will fix that, instead of two sides inching towards extremes then being pitted against each other.
7202 
7203Notice how one of the first responses to nazism is "lol ur race is f.ucked XD". Great stuff. Enjoy the race war.
7204
7205Here's an appeal to nationalism that anyone can understand. If you aren't familiar with a prisoner's dilemma, look that up. Now, let's call the GTO (game theory optimal) route the selfish route. The "selfless" routes in life, i.e. the things advertised as "compassionate", "moral" e.g. America is supposed to help Puerto Rico for some arbitrary reason (It's geographically convenient or something, idk). For one, this not only relies on human nature being cooperative/loving, it relies on the state ensuring that "good" human nature - something they get to define. If you trust in that you are basically screaming to me how your government loves you and you would put your life in their hands. Second, every time you or your country collectively decide to bend over to help someone else (like Puerto Rico), EVERY OTHER ENTITY who decided not to bend over as well BY CHOICE (the GTO decision) has gotten a step closer to an upper hand on you.
7206
7207Human nature is selfish. View people like a macroorganism. Everything that can be taken to get ahead will be. If some superpowerful continent emerged out of nowhere and could take us all on for a net benefit, assume that it would, or you're praying for benevolent leaders to have your interest in mind.
7208
7209What was the only way that humans have ever overcame this? MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction. Being at each other's throats is all human macroorganisms understand.
7210
7211==================================================
7212
7213amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/19 07:50
7214
7215https://pastebin.com/WGjWCRSs
7216
7217I wont be surprised if the KKK or some other neonazi group rises in the next few years. Hell, they're probably organizing right not on the deep web. Normal white people are getting tired of being labeled as the villain by the alt left. My class was CHEERING when my professor mentioned white people will be a minority by 2042. As a white man, I am disgusted by this. It's not that I hate diversity, it's that they were happy there will be less white people in the future. By making white people feel excluded from society, the left is facilitating the growth of white supremacist groups, as white people are now seeking acceptance from a society that rejected and demonized them.
7218 
7219Maybe this is extreme, but I'm from the left coast. Liberal trash everywhere.
7220 
7221I should also state that The alt right cannot exist without the alt left.
7222 
7223@Draco
7224Group 1 is not changing, group 2 is exploding.
7225
7226==================================================
7227
7228Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/19 14:02
7229
7230I only said that to attack his claim. I didn't actually put much thought into it. In retrospect, it was more wishful thinking than anything, but of course now that the white supremacists have a leader--whether he ACTUALLY WANTS to be or not--their group will expand rapidly, and anyone who regularly watches the news will find this obvious.
7231
7232@amazingdude
7233What's wrong with being a minority? I mean obviously no one would choose to be subject to discrimination from the majority, but if we assume this doesn't happen (which it probably will, but such is an imperfection of humans in general), being a certain race doesn't matter even from a social point of view unless you feel some sort of unnecessary pride for being a member of the race, but that's the stupid idea that's fueling supremacy.
7234
7235==================================================
7236
7237amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/19 14:09
7238
7239I wasnt talking about not wanting to be a minority, I was using it as an example of attacks on white people. To me, it seemed like the class wanted that specific group of people to be gone, which is racism. I dont really care whether or not I'm a minority. Maybe I am a bit biased, but nobody should be happy that a group of people is declining in population.
7240
7241Replace white people with any other group in that scenario and it would be considered racist. Why is it OK to cheer for a declining white population, but not a declining black, latino, or whatever population? I was angry at the fact the class wanted there to be less white people in the US, not the fact that I will be a minority in 30 years.
7242
7243==================================================
7244
7245Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/19 20:46
7246
7247I miss uncensoredbot https://pastebin.com/DAwpSDHQ
7248
7249It's basically an assault on whites and our culture, but I always think it's a bad idea to blame malevolence, so I say whites are responsible for allowing this assault and need to change something. However, the cultural fruits of our lives are pretty much inextricable the white race. People don't seem to realise that culture means "the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively".
7250 
7251Again about human nature, we are still 50% animal and no one wants to see their race die. We also have a drive towards identity, which is part of nature that we see manifested in society, though it's a no-no for white identity. Some of our nature will play out unstoppably, indifferently to our will; it does't mean things caused by that nature are righteous. I.e. every human being is inherently "racist", if we're going to evolve past that then we need to embrace that and deal with it instead of suppressing it and treating it like it's abnormal.
7252
7253We weren't ready to have a "multicultural" civilisation. Whites are not only threatened by becoming a minority, but because mass immigration has been a farce. The only possible scenario that can come of this is a group of white elites practically enslaving everyone else, or a racially charged war. I'm not saying this because I wish for it, it's just highly likely. 2000 years of blood and tears went into white culture; some youngsters might toss it away but I can guarantee you there is already a white elite ready to guard it just like how Jews manage to have their own ethnostate and a rich, secured culture while being 0.002% of the world.
7254 
7255If the first world does stay multiracial, then we can't treat race like it's relative, we all have our own unique problems and strengths that need to be addressed accordingly.
7256 
7257Life's foundation is arbitrary, it sucks that we're born one race and with one appearance, but our lives are inextricable from this determinism. To not hang yourself right now is to be a determinist, that's what I always say!
7258
7259==================================================
7260
7261Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/20 00:24
7262
7263@amazingdude
7264Yeah, for a while in my life I thought that most white people before this generation were evil or something and that they should be gone or at least their population reduced (I am white), but I later I realized that was completely unrealistic.
7265
7266There are things that are socially acceptable only when the person is not white, for example saying the N-word (which may be more race-specific) is okay (not in all situations, of course) when the person is black. I am socially not allowed to say this word, but I am perfectly fine with that because I'm already disgusted by its meaning anyway and wouldn't say it even if I got a "free pass" or something. Some things that whites can't do because of their race are fine by me because I've always felt kind of sorry for them since we've been the privileged race for much of human history at their expense. I will feel uncomfortable if someone says something bad about the white race but I will not be insulted. So basically I believe we should let them do what they want while it's still socially acceptable. I mean, I want equality across the board but I would feel more comfortable if we balance the scale first.
7267
7268@Minsheme
7269That might be useful.
7270
7271==================================================
7272
7273Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/20 01:55
7274
7275About equal playing field vs equality of outcome https://pastebin.com/WMpa3uc6
7276
7277The scale seems balanced enough to me. We've had all kinds of sandboxes for every race. Typically the scale goes: Jewish average income is highest, then Asian, then white, then Hispanic, then black. Why is it okay to point out that blacks are more athletic but not that they have less capacity to be civilised? I think person-to-person we should evaluate everyone individually, but from governmental point that is not useful.
7278 
7279And it is the same with the male vs female equality arguments - when the playing field is made even MORE equal (see Scandinavia) then the pay difference and choice of fields (i.e. disproportionate males in STEM) becomes even more disparate.
7280 
7281It is the same with what I said about racism, we are all biologically ra.cist and it won't change by trying to suppress it. Same for whatever causes different abilities of different races.
7282 
7283Humans in the northern hemisphere had to build shelter and therefore began things like writing, reading; abstract mental tasks. To survive in hot Southern climates there was no need for this so they did not. This is why Africans never developed a written language despite having plenty of time to do so before EVIL WHITEY came and oppressed them. They are simply less suited for civilisation on average. For some reason, people now are programmed into thinking this means you aren't willing to treat others individually and are condemning a whole race. I don't care if someone I meet is black, they can easily be more civilised and educated than me. It's only necessary to know all this for the sake of governance.
7284 
7285Let's say it is true, our ancestors oppressed blacks and they have an extreme disadvantage. Why should we give whites a handicap just because of this? This is fighting racism with racism. Supposedly we shouldn't care what way someone is born, yet we should have blood on our hands or be handed things because of how we were born, No, the only solution is to level the playing field and let nature take its course.
7286 
7287If this is about equality, why aren't Asians and Jews being handicapped the most? The environment they happened to evolve in was the most beneficial.
7288 
7289It was cruel to blacks to try to make them live in the first world. They didn't ask for it.
7290 
7291We are privileged to be born and exist in the first world, our only duty is to utilise it, otherwise we are squandering what the less privileged would love to have.
7292
7293==================================================
7294
7295The_Leviathan			#dy5l8n9X 2017/10/20 05:42
7296
7297What are you guys even talking about... lmao
7298
7299==================================================
7300
7301amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/20 11:51
7302
7303https://pastebin.com/mLPUSefR
7304
7305@Dracobot
7306Yeah i get what you're saying. Ultimately we should be aiming for equality, but at the same time we shouldnt shame white people for ther history. My race did fucked up things in the past, but that does not justify demonizing white people today.
7307 
7308@Minsheme
7309We are all racist/sexist/whatever a little bit. It goes back to our tribal era, where protecting the tribe was the most important thing to us. It's one of the key reasons why civilization developed. Hence why everybody who creates a social hierarchy, whether it be based on race or whatever, places themselves at the top.
7310 
7311What you say about equality is absolutely true: To achieve equality, we don't all dip down to the lowest common denominator. We help the less fortunate rise up, which is ultimately what we should be doing. Racism + Racism = more racism, which perpetuates the cycle. To get to a point where race does not matter, we need to reach true equality first.
7312
7313==================================================
7314
7315Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/20 13:18
7316
7317@Minsheme
7318By "balancing the scale", I meant since whites enslaved blacks, we should allow more social freedom for them and restrict it for the whites; otherwise, how are blacks ever going to be considered equal afterward outside of just "waiting it out"? The American government eventually gave a lot of freedom to the Native Americans after forcing them out of their land and treating them like the bad guys for so long.
7319
7320I tend to bring up this term in conversation a lot, but it is so applicable to society: we all experience ethnocentrism the moment we see or hear of something that is apart from our own cultural norms. And as you said, it's perfectly natural. It's just unfair, so we need to not necessarily limit our reflex but make sure it doesn't impact our decision-making.
7321
7322In a few days I'll read an excerpt from Leviathan in my Ethics class.
7323
7324==================================================
7325
7326amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/20 13:58
7327
7328Has anyone went to 1488's Discord server? i dont have discord
7329
7330==================================================
7331
7332Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/20 22:10
7333
7334@Dracobot
7335https://pastebin.com/dPRz4LRV
7336
7337They are free now though, if you're saying they're at a disadvantage because of the past (and not because there are still remnants of slavery making the playing field uneven) is to say that people have blood on their hands for being white.
7338 
7339It's also extremely difficult to determine who has been oppressed by who and to what extent throughout history, so where do we draw the line in asking for reparations? Every race has been through horrible carnage at the hands of another, despite what Hollywood and whatever other elite mouthpieces would have us believe. I just don't see anyway to make principle of this - I can make principle against it though and it can be summed up with that prisoner's dilemma I mentioned earlier.
7340 
7341Two major reasons why this would not work:
7342 
7343-People value orderliness i.e. they want a playing field with a firm foundation.
7344-Probably a subset of the above, **if people see someone getting ahead through no merit, they will not work themselves because the incentive has been taken away**. Why be generative and put in effort when the system gave the same outcome to someone who did nothing?
7345 
7346I mentioned Leviathan partly as a joke because of The_Leviathan but that's pretty cool, it's a great foundational book.
7347
7348@amazingdude
7349I looked at it, it was really stale, I couldn't believe it existed (because it's so pointless).
7350
7351==================================================
7352
7353Xed						#iyTcQZN3 2017/10/21 07:45
7354
7355HOW ARE YOU GUYS STILL ARGUING!!!! ITS BEEN 5 MONTHS SINCE IVE BEEN HERE, AND YOUR STILL ARGUING!!!!! HOW????
7356
7357==================================================
7358
7359Reztak's				#CYLJDSPm 2017/10/21 11:10
7360
7361Also, wth is going on in the comments about social issues?
7362
7363==================================================
7364
7365Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/22 01:04
7366
7367Since people always like pointing it out, I don't see it as "arguing" in a fighty way, I just like to exchange/contest ideas and see what everyone believes and why.
7368
7369==================================================
7370
7371U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/22 03:01
7372
7373No more stupid comments please
7374
7375==================================================
7376
7377Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/22 05:25
7378
7379More stupid comments please.
7380
7381==================================================
7382
7383卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐				#buqgIq8Z 2017/10/22 16:37
7384
7385Yall cucks need to realize that there is only one race of human: The white race.
7386
7387==================================================
7388
7389msg						#dmm2ADo9 2017/10/22 17:57
7390
7391@#buqgIq8Z {卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐}
7392Go away from here.
7393
7394==================================================
7395
7396Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/10/22 22:21
7397
7398If the only race is the white race, humans are about to go extinct. You white people have become the architects of your own destruction.
7399
7400==================================================
7401
7402Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/22 22:55
7403
7404Tyne why do you hate white people so much? They're not going anywhere. There is a good chance that this faux-threat to the white race is an excuse to create a white ethnostate.
7405
7406==================================================
7407
7408amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/23 02:11
7409
7410Whi wont this post
7411https://pastebin.com/sR6M0pVV
7412
7413@T&W
7414How exactly do white people cause their own distruction?
7415 
7416@Minsheme
7417White ethnostates exist already, most of them are in Europe. How diverse is Poland, for example?
7418
7419T&W lives in china, this was covered in the climate change era of the debate
7420
7421==================================================
7422
7423Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/23 02:57
7424
7425Poland will succumb soon enough. If it does not happen perniciously, then they'll be destroyed (they depend on the EU and many citizens support it despite knowing their ideology, the country is not that sovereign). It's not like any country that is now multicultural decided "hey, let's stop being all one race", it was just forced on them. If it came to it, I can see a war happening in 30-50 years time because Poland and any other closed-borders nation in the first world is "racist, nazi", etc.
7426
7427==================================================
7428
7429Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/10/23 05:17
7430
7431@Amazingdude
7432I'm not being serious when I talk about the decline of the West, it's just that the nationalists, far-righters and such make it sound like some kind of doomsday event, and I just play along with that. It is true that European power has declined significantly since the beginning of the last century, and from what I can gather, it seems that some blame Europe's current problems on the so-called 'liberalism' and 'acceptance', even though both the roots and solutions of the problem are more complex. There will always be a difference in what should be done, what can be done and what people want to do. 
7433
7434I would not be surprised if there was another devastating war spanning the entirety of Europe in our lifetime. There hasn't been a single century in the modern era where this hasn't happened. As with the 'white ethnostate' claim, there are roughly two main factors. How desirable a country is to live in and whether people want to move there. Most immigrants (particularly Muslims) choose Western Europe over Eastern Europe because the West generally has better living conditions, better benefits, employment opportunities and social support. Living standards in Eastern Europe are lower and the locals and the governments are less accepting, whether this is due to historical qualms between Muslims, particularly in the Balkans, or some other reason. 
7435
7436==================================================
7437
7438Reztak's				#CYLJDSPm 2017/10/23 08:08
7439
7440wtf
7441
7442==================================================
7443
7444amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/23 10:09
7445
7446https://pastebin.com/j5uyd4iD
7447
7448@Minsheme
7449 
7450I believe every ethnicity should have a homeland. Poland for Poles, France for French, Korea for Koreans, etc. Obviously there should be some multicultural areas (USA for example), but forced multiculturalism is just as bad as forced monoculturalism. You're absolutely right. Why is multiculutralism being forced on mostly white countries, like UK and Germany? Why arent people flooding into China, or Nigeria? Why is Japan not being called asian supremacist for having very strict immigration laws?
7451 
7452People have the right to be upset that their homeland is being forcefully invaded. When the majority becomes the minority, they lose their sense of national identity, and ethnic tensions will rise, as the majority seeks to reconquer their homeland. Society will divide and nationalist cults will form. This is happening in the USA right now, as the white majority is afraid of becoming a minority (I do believe some recent American white nationalism has to do with this). Who's to say that this won't happen to Europe? If anything, it'll be worse, as the majority is actuallly native to the region, and have been living there for thousands of years, uninterrupted, something not true in the USA. At least they're justified in defending their homeland.
7453 
7454This all goes back to our natural insticnts. Back in the day, people had to protect their tribe in order to survive. Modern ethnic tensions are a result of our natural instincts of protecting our "tribe" (ethnicity in this case) from perceived danger (other ethnic groups), so what we're seeing is people trying to protect their tribe from "foreign invaders" (immigrants). It's harder to be kind to your neighbor if your neighbor is a member of a different tribe than you. Humans just aren't meant to mix. We don't like to admit that people are instinctively protective of their own race, but they are. We're in for one hell of a century.
7455 
7456Name a time in history where 2 different groups of people got along and cooperated for a long amount of time without any violence. Now name a time where 2 different groups of people met and tried to destroy each other and take over.
7457 
7458@T&W
7459 
7460I definitely see a WW3 breaking out in Europe soon. Also a second American civil war.
7461
7462==================================================
7463
7464Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/23 10:14
7465
7466I'd say the majority of economic migrants understand what they can reap in the West. They go to wherever can be reaped the most, and do so as much as possible.
7467
7468Anyway, I am running out of things to comment, so I will let videos of my nice strong country do the talking. (warning kinda loud)
7469https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/921833512117862400/pu/vid/1280x720/DvN-1wfYSw_ixd-i.mp4
7470
7471here is some dull pseudo-intellectual stuff I didn't feel like posting: https://pastebin.com/9RpzDSAD
7472
7473I agree with him that whites cause their own destruction. They're susceptible to a lot of "programming", and many other threats that East Asia in particular is immune to. Few whites have transcendent values to ground themselves in. We're going through tons of different cultural shifts which are happening artificially quickly; we've suddenly become in need of religion yet incompatible with all known religion. This is probably why people are turning to political extremes kinda as quasi-religion, this gives them something to ground themselves in, but no one (at least not average person) has access to anything original or authentic, it's always fed to us (or it's a reaction to those things fed to us) e.g. the "SJW" strawman, while they truly exist and have an impact, they are contrived and the reaction/opposition to them is pre-empted.
7474 
7475This is where Poland and the rest of the Visegrad Group may have an advantage, because they are educated properly. They're taught the importance of their history and somewhat heavy reading is expected of the average person. I'm not sure what else separates them, they just appreciate the adversity their country has been through and strive to not repeat it.
7476
7477==================================================
7478
7479βBETA					#0rob4al8 2017/10/23 10:22
7480
7481Oh, great..., people keep on saying, "I'm leaving because there is noting more I could possibly do." seriously..., dude. 
7482
7483==================================================
7484
7485U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/23 12:22
7486
7487@卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐
7488GET OUT OF PG2, NOW!!!!
7489
7490==================================================
7491
7492Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/23 13:57
7493
7494This would all be solved if people would just stop caring. I wouldn't care if I was the last white person on Earth, as long as I'm treated equally. I understand that it's hard-wired into our minds, but it really doesn't seem like a big deal to me, so I can't understand why people feel so strongly about their "tribes".
7495
7496And as we become more globalized, I predict that most major wars will be world wars.
7497
7498==================================================
7499
7500amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/24 11:28
7501
7502@Draco
7503How would we get people to stop caring about race? Obviously we would need to reach true equality first, both social and political. Some people base their whole identity on their race.
7504
7505==================================================
7506
7507Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/24 23:32
7508
7509I honestly don't know. I just don't understand why people think that way about themselves and their culture to begin with.
7510
7511==================================================
7512
7513U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/25 00:00
7514
7515Dracobot and amazingdude are posting like randomly and you're talking about races and culture now. Can you guys just ignore the comment section if you can't think of anything to post other than randomness?
7516
7517==================================================
7518
7519OmegaPirate				#D5Zdki7l 2017/10/25 07:41
7520
7521@Draco & AD
7522Break the radical feminists first, then we can discuss race.
7523
7524==================================================
7525
7526Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/25 08:01
7527
7528@UH2V
7529I've asked this before: what topic about PG2 would *you* like to talk about? I am willing to talk about that as long as I have something to add to the discussion. I don't talk about mass deletions of uploads, for example, because I have nothing to add.
7530
7531==================================================
7532
7533danstroyer				#7h9Zn6zf 2017/10/25 10:13
7534
7535@UH2V WHAT ARE U EVEN TALKING ABOUT
7536
7537==================================================
7538
7539U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/25 12:18
7540
7541How to post anything without having to put the period: Stuff like A is just &#.065; without the period. B is &#.066; etc. You can use a ASCII numbers converter to do this.
7542
7543That's how you trick the censor bots. It wouldn't be possible the put double asterisks if I didn't do &#.042 over and over again.
7544==================================================
7545
7546amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/25 12:41
7547
7548@Draco
7549As part of their identity, perhaps? After all, race is included on job apps and stuff like that, so people see it as important. Maybe remove race from the census and all paperwork? Dont think that will work
7550
7551@UH2V
7552Fuck off. Nobody wants your minimodding here. We can talk about whatever we want. Believe it or not, PG2 is a dead game, and theres nothing to talk about besides "vote for me". So stop trying to moderate this discussion. If people really cared then they'd just ignore me, and draco's posts. If ha55ii really cared, he'd have nuked this board months ago when the climate debate started. Vidkunssonn believes that ha55ii browses the boards. I dont think he does, but whatever.
7553
7554Heres the backup, sorry I've been slacking. https://pastebin.com/sGaqwcqx
7555
7556==================================================
7557
7558skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/25 14:04
7559
7560@AD
7561I made the choice quite a while ago to speak to you as little as possible. I personally dislike you strongly, and conversations with you are frustrating. Also, you ought to know that I of all people would disagree with the statement "PG2 is a dead game".
7562
7563==================================================
7564
7565Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/25 14:26
7566
7567Well, I think we should keep track of race for demographic reasons. Besides, you can't remove all instances of race in our society and expect it to solve our problems because the physical differences are there and noticeable. The problems would probably reform.
7568
7569==================================================
7570
7571Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/26 01:46
7572
7573I'm pretty sure ha55ii does browse the boards but that he just skims over things like this. It would be cool if he said something one day, I wonder if he ever has on either the JP or EN comment boards.
7574
7575About "topics that shouldn't be discussed here":
7576
7577Powder Game is a sandbox game. Here is a rule that you can see applies to PG all throughout its history because of that: the climate/quality of the game is a reflection of the playerbase (e.g. the key players might define the entire direction the community is going in). This is why you can/should discuss literally anything, along with the fact that it's a game where you can create literally anything. It would be inappropriate to put any limits on the discussion.
7578Minecraft is a good example of a sandbox that became worse as the playerbase got worse.
7579
7580==================================================
7581
7582Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/26 10:52
7583
7584@Minsheme
7585He has "appeared" to respond to comments before, but they looked like sheer coincidences to me.
7586
7587==================================================
7588
7589amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/26 11:44
7590
7591https://pastebin.com/Cmh3t7pK
7592
7593@Skyk
7594Why do you hate me? Is it because I do not believe in manmade climate change, or our different stances on painkiller addiction?
7595 
7596@Draco
7597True. Theres probably no solution to racism, until we all merge into one race in 1000 years, but even then, prejudice will always exist.
7598 
7599@Minsheme
7600He does announcements, but thats it. In Japanese boards, he does a longer explanation of the website. Also, otascube, another webmaster, is active in the appgames board.
7601 
7602Heres a post of his:
7603"@UH2V #2
7604If there is an inappropriate problem of dust please comment to Comments ( http://dan-ball.jp/bbs/support.html ).
7605ha55ii is also watching comments.
7606Thank you for your cooperation."
7607 
7608So it looks like UH2V the crybaby is complaining over there too.
7609 
7610Sidenote, Minecraft itself is still a good game, the community is utter fucking garbage.
7611
7612================================================== {Topic shift 8}
7613
7614skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/26 12:20
7615
7616It's mostly because you're violently apathetic. You haven't really shown the capacity for caring about any living thing other than yourself. Aside from that, I just find you basically unpleasant to talk to, but for a more compassionate person I would be able to excuse that.
7617
7618==================================================
7619
7620amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/26 13:54
7621
7622@Skyk
7623I'm not apathetic to normal people. I can and do care about people. It's just that I believe criminals should suffer for their crimes, and I don't believe they can be fixed (see 2017-08-xx comments). Why the fu,ck do murders deserve my compassion?
7624
7625@Draco (10:52)
7626examples?
7627
7628==================================================
7629
7630Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/26 14:39
7631
7632What is good about compassion exactly? Compassion drives killers and criminals. One of the most compassionate creatures on earth is a mother grizzly bear towards her children (not just a saying, I am talking about literal compassion as we know it) and you can imagine what that allows her to do. Please explain to me why emotional empathy would help anyone make good decisions.
7633
7634==================================================
7635
7636skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/26 22:23
7637
7638There's no such thing as a "good" decision without some moral background.
7639
7640==================================================
7641
7642Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/26 22:36
7643
7644@amazingdude
7645I didn't say any examples because I've seen it happen once and I don't remember what it was about. All I remember is ha55ii updated a game (PG2 maybe?) to fix a bug, Hachi wondered what it fixed, and ha55ii explained what it fixed immediately afterward. Ha55ii didn't explicitly respond to Hachi, and it just seemed to me that ha55ii forgot to add a description so he added it later. I know it has happened before because MG said it did.
7646
7647==================================================
7648
7649Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/26 22:46
7650
7651Is it just me or do all the interesting conversations only happen while I don't have reliable internet access?
7652
7653For something on-topic, the average person is said to only have enough real empathy for ~150 different people at any given point in their life- generally meaning one's family, friends, and a "pantheon" of influential gods/heroes/celebrities. After that they're either filed into a faceless stereotype or just forgotten about altogether by the end of the day. 
7654
7655==================================================
7656
7657Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/26 23:39
7658
7659What do emotions/compassion have to do with morals?
7660
7661==================================================
7662
7663danstroyer				#SWxiPlD1 2017/10/27 00:17
7664
7665PG2 IS NOT DEAD BUT IF YOU GUYS KEEP UP THIS NEGATIVE COMMENTS IT WILL BE, WE NEED TO TRY TO GET THE POWDER GAME ALIVE AGAIN (its in a semidead state) CMON WHOS WITH ME
7666
7667==================================================
7668
7669Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/27 00:32
7670
7671People will justify a lot of otherwise immoral actions if they don't particularly care about anybody the consequences would affect.
7672
7673==================================================
7674
7675Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/27 01:19
7676
7677There are no negative comments, I don't know why people see them that way. If you don't like the "debate" type comments then feel free to ignore them and continue a different discussion at the same time, nothing is stopping you so there is no problem.
7678
7679We need a system where beneficial actions are supported and detrimental ones have consequences, not relying on oxytocin to tell us to do the right thing. "Caring" about someone on an emotional level is a completely flimsy, situational thing to rely on, it's happenstance. There needs to be an unwavering baseline to conduct ourselves by.
7680
7681People can be taught to be pro-social rather than anti-social just because it is beneficial and yields reward in many ways, rather than hoping it aligns with the right emotional stimulation.
7682
7683==================================================
7684
7685skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/27 03:52
7686
7687There is no objective measure of "right" or "wrong". Even the most pragmatic person possible must still have a fundamental set of subjective values. I never said that it has to be purely emotional, but there is no such thing as pure logic when it comes to making the "right" choice, because there is no such thing as any objective measure of good or bad.
7688
7689Compassion is more than just whether you immediately feel good or bad about someone else. It's a trait of valuing the wellbeing of other living things. Compassion represents a goal, while logic is a tool. If you don't value other life, no amount of logic is going to make you
7690
7691==================================================
7692
7693Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/27 05:26
7694
7695compassion and ting: https://pastebin.com/p1VgHkju
7696
7697I don't agree with this approach since we can't have any harmony without some homogeny. That is, everyone needs a common ground and in this case that would be logical decisions. Without that benchmark there is no reason for people not to stray into chaos. We can weigh the good and bad of a decision with more than logic, but it's important to have unchanging measures. If we tried to be completely rational then I think we would no longer be human. So the important message here is that I'm not saying what compassion achieves is necessarily bad - we may arrive at the same result through "logic" (or other values) as we would through what I consider compassion. In my opinion, if someone reached a good outcome but did it by acting on emotions, then it was wrong.
7698 
7699There will always be some subjectivity which is why humans constantly make compromises in order to be part of any system, but we have an innate nature. The fact that we all have a head, body and limbs (along with pretty similar brains with similar reward functions) is evidence enough of that. Everyone has deviations but no one is alien. Naturally we even recognise what was "subjectively good" for others when it wasn't desirable for ourselves.
7700 
7701So what is the principle with compassion? For example I know plenty of people who inherited debilitating conditions and wished that we hadn't supplemented their lives (they live only because we decided whether they should live or die) so they lived a life of suffering and their genes were continued. Compassionate impulse tells us to value all life and makes us squirm at the thought of allowing Darwinism to make the weak suffer (not necessarily killing, just putting them through adversity). The cold and calculated decision allows us things like euthanasia. This is just an example so let's not go off on a tangent, I am not saying I firmly believe we should euthanise everyone who is "defective", but only using this hypothetically to see the different ways of making decisions.
7702
7703==================================================
7704
7705βBETA					#0rob4al8 2017/10/27 05:54
7706
7707I see this discussion is going divine. 
7708
7709==================================================
7710
7711skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/27 06:13
7712
7713At this point, when someone expects me to read three or more paragraphs in a pastebin I just give up. If you wanna have a debate, go on Reddit or something, but I have lost all motivation to try and convince anyone of anything on the Powder Game 2 comment boards.
7714
7715==================================================
7716
7717Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/27 06:50
7718
7719I don't see it as us trying to best each other or change each other's minds, it is just information to me. I admire anyone who was willing to share dialogue and put forth their thoughts, so thank you to everyone who has.
7720
7721==================================================
7722
7723Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/27 12:48
7724
7725https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs makes a decent morality system. Some general rule like "X <(Y+2)" where X is one's own priority section while Y is the priority section of somebody else- so an objectively moral person would never put their own love life above someone else's need to breathe.
7726
7727==================================================
7728
77291488					#9ndySrFD 2017/10/29 04:53
7730
7731Whether you wsnt to admit it or not, the white race is the most successful race in human history
7732
7733==================================================
7734
7735Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/29 05:28
7736
7737Not very successful from an ethical and non-ignorant perspective. It's easy to win something if you cheat.
7738
7739==================================================
7740
7741Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/29 14:33
7742
7743What is "cheating"? Is there an honour code built into nature? You really think every race in history wasn't at each other's throats, and that every race has had periods of coming out on top or being dominated?
7744
7745If you want a good argument against white supremacy then just look at the swaths of ingenuous whites who adopt white guilt and neoliberalism.
7746
7747================================================== 
7748
7749U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/29 14:59
7750
7751@Minsheme, Dracobot, amazingdude,etc.
7752I don't think that you should post that stuff in the Powder Game 2 comments, but post that stuff on a different website. If you keep posting this, I will tell ha55ii to get rid of all these useless comments about random stuff. Also, stop posting comments with profanities in them. The PG2 comments is here not because ha55ii wants you to talk about races, cheating, history, etc.
7753
7754==================================================
7755
7756Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/29 18:50
7757
7758You're not anyone's boss UH2V, nobody gives a shift what you think is "useless" or "random".
7759
7760On topic: https://pastebin.com/kn1UZGck
7761
7762"Honorable" combat is mostly a myth that super-powers use to keep the status quo. If both sides use equal levels of force, the richer side will always come out on top in the long run because a lost battle drains a smaller percentage of their resources- 1,000 from 10,000,000 is much easier to handle than 1,000 from 10,000. Saying there's such a thing as "cheating" is a luxury only available to the guy that would win a fair fight.
7763
7764==================================================
7765
7766Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/30 02:42
7767
7768@UH2V
7769Amazingdude is archiving the comments, anyway. Do you want me to talk about PG2? Fine.
7770
7771Side note: "Cheating" implies using a tactic that gives yourself an unfair advantage over others (there doesn't have to be a set of rules that must be followed); by "advantage over others" I mean the goal implied is to be the last race standing (as per evolution). The "advantage" is making *sure* the other races don't become dominant over the whites by utilizing their position and power that the other races don't have. The definition of the term "unfair" is entirely decided by us, but wouldn't you agree that this is a decent definition? It's like Rockefeller's monopoly: either sell your business to him or be overwhelmed in his shadow. It was *unfair* because your success depended on who you were at the time instead of something that you choose, even though the laws of the universe say it's perfectly fine to do so. Minsheme, I'm not saying that the white race is the only one that was racist at some point and I'm not saying that it was the only race to use that tactic to be dominant. All I'm saying is that, according to *my* understanding of "unfair", the whites have achieved their dominance unfairly.
7772
7773==================================================
7774
7775danstroyer				#OhRZvGPi 2017/10/30 03:39
7776
7777im leaving if you all wont stop with the dumb stuff
7778
7779==================================================
7780
7781Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/30 04:32
7782
7783Western civilisation and culture would still be as it is today even if at no point had whites rode on the backs of oppressed people, if they ever even did so disproportionately, keeping in mind that it was happening to the majority of peoples' existence was to serve someone else no matter what their background.
7784
7785There are plenty of microcosms of all races showing their different performance. In my opinion East Asians (broadly) and Ashkenazis (le most oppressed race in history!!!! :( :(.) seem to outdo Whites at their own game, but that's the thing, it's just one "game", different races have different strengths. I've said in other comments, those in climates where it's more necessary to do so would build shelters and then begin focusing on more abstract mental tasks. Those in warmer climates had no biological need to evolve this way.
7786
7787==================================================
7788
77891488					#BcZjX8L1 2017/10/30 05:05
7790
7791White Power! Gas the jews!
7792
7793================================================== {Topic shift 9}
7794
7795U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/30 10:58
7796
7797http://u-have-2-vote.weebly.com/haterlist.html
7798If you post hate comments or mean comments about me I will put you on the hate list
7799
7800==================================================
7801
7802King Kentucky			#paPdACwJ 2017/10/30 11:57
7803
7804UH2V, put Kentucky, Kéntucky, raichu132, StarTrek(uh)Kirk?, MB Master, CV Master?, uh RCA's Minion, uh uh uh I don't remember anymore on there too. Also, shut the fuck up.
7805
7806==================================================
7807
7808amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/30 12:00
7809
7810@UH2V
7811Nobody wants you here fuckface. Do something useful with your life instead of micromodding on a comment board of a (almost) dead game, yelling at people just for talking. Just fuck off. Your website reeks of 9 year old cringe.
7812
7813Tell you what: Post a picture of yourself holding a sign with your username, and if you're over 15, I'm withdrawing my account and never coming back.
7814(yes i know that was a bit too toxic. i love trolling trolls)
7815
7816@draco
7817I wouldnt call it unfair. Back in the day, everyone enslaved, tortured, dominated, etc people they encountered.
7818
7819==================================================
7820
7821Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/30 12:07
7822
7823@uh2v
7824Change your name, unless you really do care about votes.
7825
7826I....I....What? Why is this already taken? I swear to God I did not take this username myself. I wanted to care the name "U HAVE 2 VAGINAS!!!" for him.
7827https://puu.sh/yaof7/3e1b0e55a8.png
7828
7829==================================================
7830
7831Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/10/30 12:41
7832
7833Why is STS on the haterlist but I'm not? I've never been so insulted.
7834
7835==================================================
7836
7837U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/30 13:40
7838
7839Changing your name can't be don't on Dan-Ball, FYI.
7840
7841==================================================
7842
7843Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/30 13:59
7844
7845@LK & UH2V
7846There's got to be about 20-30 more accounts, and that's no exaggeration.
7847RCA Liposuction is my favorite, and I came up with that one.
7848
7849@TK
7850That's the probably-imposter STS from a few weeks ago.
7851
7852==================================================
7853
7854Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/10/30 14:47
7855
7856I know you can't change it. That's why you'd lose all your "votes" - you'd make a new name.
7857
7858==================================================
7859
7860Hachi1					#pdDlVqmc 2017/10/30 16:16
7861
7862oh woah this chat is way more interesting than the PG1 chat
7863
7864add me to the hatelist plz <3
7865
7866==================================================
7867
7868danstroyer				#9UE0POrr 2017/10/30 23:19
7869
7870I'm leaving and if your smart you should too I'm 10 and I know that
7871
7872now I'm going to check in the comments until Saturday and if nothing changes or it just gets more toxic I'm leaving forever
7873
7874==================================================
7875
78761488					#Ckl15dqk 2017/10/31 02:06
7877
7878You are wrong. Whtie people are superior
7879
7880==================================================
7881
7882Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/10/31 05:27
7883
7884*Were superior. You colonised the world but the world is colonising you now. Congrats you played yourself. 
7885
7886==================================================
7887
7888ZEggs					#Rt8ZuRYF 2017/10/31 05:29
7889
7890FUCKING DIE YOU FUCKING FAGGOT
7891DELETE HIS WORKS!!
7892THE DICTATOR OF POWDER GAME - U HAVE 2 VOTE!!
7893HE BELIEVES HE IS THE RULER,
7894HE ISN'T
7895HE THINKS HIS 10 YEAROLD MINE CAN HANDLE POWDER GAME
7896IT CAN'T
7897HE IS OUR ENEMY, LOOK AT HIS NAME
7898YOU SEE, HE WILL NEVER HAVE FAME
7899perhaps UH2V should listen to "STFU" By Filthy Frank
7900
7901==================================================
7902
7903ZEggs					#Rt8ZuRYF 2017/10/31 05:30
7904
7905If you are wondering, I am a person from PG1, I think I actually make decent uploads.
7906UH2V is spreading cancer and ha.te all over dan-ball and should be banned. Please go to PG1 click delete on all his works.
7907
7908==================================================
7909
7910MidnightMonster			#VfijhzSI 2017/10/31 06:46
7911
7912A hate list?
7913I don't want to get too involved in this, but if you "hate" people just because of a mean comment, you need to calm down, and making a hate list just takes it too far. A lot of drama has been happening, some uploads being deleted, (Which shouldn't happen anyways, as people work hard on the things they upload, but if it's inappropriate, I can kinda understand that.) and now a hate list. I wonder what PG2 was like before all this drama. 
7914
7915==================================================
7916
7917IFIDIE					#kDtwbHK9 2017/10/31 06:48
7918
7919Everyone hating on UH2V
7920
7921==================================================
7922
7923danstroyer				#RyqAdxrS 2017/10/31 08:15
7924
7925UH2V is 10?
7926
7927==================================================
7928
7929lmao					#Y2A6Zh3j 2017/10/31 08:20
7930
7931I bet
7932
7933==================================================
7934
7935OmegaPirate				#D5Zdki7l 2017/10/31 08:36
7936
7937This place never ceases to amaze me.
7938
7939==================================================
7940
7941Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/10/31 08:58
7942
7943@danstroyer
7944Just come back a few weeks from now, and if that doesn't work, come back a few weeks later. It will die down soon.
7945
7946@MidnightMonster
7947Pockets of about the same drama, and the rest of the time we didn't have much dispute at all.
7948
7949I'm going to call this the "U HAVE 2 HATE" era. Anyone else have a name?
7950
7951==================================================
7952
7953King Kentucky			#paPdACwJ 2017/10/31 09:02
7954
7955i haven't been this amused in a while
7956
7957==================================================
7958
7959King Kentucky			#paPdACwJ 2017/10/31 09:16
7960
7961"Comments code of conduct
7962Use appropriate expressions.
7963Don't post offensive comments.
7964Don't reply to any inflammatory comments but ignore them."
7965
7966this is my first time seeing this i think
7967
7968==================================================
7969
7970skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/10/31 09:47
7971
7972Can everyone stop being so rude, please?
7973
7974==================================================
7975
7976amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/10/31 10:25
7977
7978https://pastebin.com/rGkXYK4Z
7979
7980The guy's 10 years old. I know, because I was that age once.
7981 
7982@1488
7983Its getting old now. Just stop.
7984 
7985@t&w
7986Reverse colonization? If this turns out to be true I can see a reverse "revolution" coming soon.
7987 
7988@danstroyer
7989The same was said about the climate debate. That era lasted 2.5 months and then limped on into a few more topics, including the race debate most recently.
7990 
7991@eggogirl
7992Powder toy.
7993 
7994@draco
7995Yeah ill incorporate it into the great debate.
7996 
7997@KK
7998Thats been there for literal years now.
7999
8000@UH2V
8001UH2V, I'm still open to the challenge. I'm withdrawing my account and disappearing forever if you're over 15 and can prove it by taking a picture of yourself, holding a paper saying "U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!" and the date, coming from your ACCOUNT AND ID "U HAVE 2 VOTE!!! #oivMsWIR"
8002==================================================
8003
8004U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#oivMsWIR 2017/10/31 11:50
8005
8006https://pastebin.com/6UNZRmbL
8007
8008Note: Offensive replies or replies containing profanities will be reported to ha55ii.
80091. @TK 10/30 12:41PM
8010I'm not putting you on the hater list, because you have not posted any mean comment about me.
8011 
80122. @Minsheme 10/31 10:47AM
8013True.
8014 
80153. @ZEggs 10/31 5:30AM
8016No way. You are the one that's spreading it.
8017 
80184. @ZEggs 10/31 5:29AM
8019If you don't like me, fine. You don't need to be angry and use profanities.
8020P.S. Are you hating me because of my name or what?
8021 
80225. @MidnightMonster 10/31 6:46AM
8023People are just cyber-bullying a lot in the PG Comments. I don't know why.
8024 
80256. @Hachi1 10/30 4:17PM
8026*Same answer as in [1.]
8027 
80287. @Minsheme 10/30 12:15PM
8029Not appropriate. All those stupid images you are making that are:
8030A. rude B. making fun of me C. Photoshopped or changed by inspect element
8031need to go away.
8032 
80338.@amazingdude 10/30 12:00PM
8034*Same answer as in [4.]
8035 
80369. @danstroyer 10/27 12:17AM
8037What the heck are you posting?
8038 
803910. @kittyprank 10/26 11:55PM
8040True.
8041 
804211. @danstroyer 10/24 11:49PM
8043The PG2 comments were not made for posting random comments, yes, but *Same answer as in [9.]
8044 
804512. @卐卐14ϟϟ88卐卐 10/22 4:37PM
8046Your comment really needs to get deleted.
8047
8048==================================================
8049
8050MidnightMonster			#VfijhzSI 2017/10/31 11:51
8051
8052@Dracobot
8053Seems better than what the PG2 comment board is now.
8054
8055==================================================
8056
8057eandip					#SmU02I6Z 2017/10/31 13:08
8058
8059Jesus, you guys really seem to hate UH2V. I don't see any comments by him, he delete them or something? Someone wanna fill me on what happened? 
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