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1Yea
2they make these claims really due to personal pain and dissapointment
3Caleb - 09/12/2017
4that's what I've noticed aswell
5azureblue - 09/12/2017
6not like society isnt harsh as it is, it really pressures people into these personal beliefs
7because it hurts them so badly
8Who created God?(edited)
9can have many answers (i want to italic that for some reason)
10Caleb - 09/12/2017
11there's only 1 answer that makes logical sense
12to that question
13which is:
14azureblue - 09/12/2017
15I initially want to say society, as it is true, society and generational indoctrination created the common known subject of God
16Caleb - 09/12/2017
17things exist either in the necessity of their own nature or from an external cause.  Science demonstrates that the universe is not eternal and had an external cause i.e. big bang theory, second law of thermodynamics, etc.
18God would fit into the category of necessarily existing
19azureblue - 09/12/2017
20ok
21people want an answer
22and irregardless if information is enough to conclude a true answer
23With the topic of "God" and the big band theory and creationism theres alot of simillarities and differences but
24really its all speculation
25our society is either 1. not advanced enough in unifiying ideas and knowledge in the societal level or
262. the truth has been found and is heavily suppressed not only by authorities but the society itself
27or both of these
28because essentially what the world and society is at the current moment
29is not only a mess lol
30but a massive controlled population with the main factor controlling being currency
31the thing is whoever controls the money controls the people in the end
32and the love of money is the strongest belief there is
33so really, "Money" is the name of the global religion
34Caleb - 09/12/2017
35um
36I think I disagree that the love of money is the strongest belief
37how do you measure belief strength
38azureblue - 09/12/2017
39hmmm, you could do it in many ways
40as money is a physical object that people put trust in
41thats how currency works, people put their trust in it
42and where do people put their money :wink:
43^^^ wherever people put their trusted money in, controls them
44either directly or indirectly but in society we know today its indirect
45now i know you want that explanation on belief strength so ill say this
46everyday society that runs is an example on the belief of money
47the person who drills for oil is paid, believes in money
48the person who delivers the oil to the refinery in the trucks is paid, believes in money
49Caleb - 09/12/2017
50wut r u even talking about
51so lost
52azureblue - 09/12/2017
53the person who refines the oil is paid believes in money
54the person who delivers your gasoline to the gas station is paid etc etc
55Caleb - 09/12/2017
56if he lives in a government ran country and there's a national currency, I guess he would believe in money
57azureblue - 09/12/2017
58and now the millions upon millions of cars are fueled, you have food on your table because a truck delivered it, they were all paid
59yes but its more than that
60money is livelihood so thus
61the absolute strongest belief is in it
62understand?
63Caleb - 09/12/2017
64nope
65azureblue - 09/12/2017
66you asked how to test belief strength which is why im ranting here
67okay, what do you not understand
68Caleb - 09/12/2017
69well I have literally no clue what you're saying
70sooo
71I'll ask again
72how do you measure belief strength
73azureblue - 09/12/2017
74are you lost on how currency works?
75Caleb - 09/12/2017
76no..
77just because I work and get paid doesn't mean that's my strongest belief I hold
78azureblue - 09/12/2017
79were you not testing my claim on money being the strongest belief
80Caleb - 09/12/2017
81like, how do you even get to that conclusion
82azureblue - 09/12/2017
83its not directed at you
84commander
85Caleb - 09/12/2017
86I know
87azureblue
88azureblue - 09/12/2017
89im talking about society as a whole
90Caleb - 09/12/2017
91I'm using a personal pronoun
92for this situation
93azureblue - 09/12/2017
94ok
95Caleb - 09/12/2017
96can you sum up your basic claim in one sentence
97if not I need to go to be
98d
99azureblue - 09/12/2017
100hmmmmm
101my basic claim
102Money is the modern replacement of physical necessity and livelihood, its like a ticket and slip for fulfilling human need, and seeing that it can get them physical things they can hold and feel, see,, hear, and taste, they would put more initial belief into that concept than one that doesn't, as it is animal in nature.
103^^^^^^
104Caleb - 09/12/2017
105ok
106azureblue - 09/12/2017
107well did you understand that
108hopefully its better than the rant
109Caleb - 09/12/2017
110no
111azureblue - 09/12/2017
112hmmmm
113it would make it many times easier if you would share what is not understandable about such a concept
114Caleb - 09/12/2017
115true
116but I don't care
117azureblue - 09/12/2017
118okay
119Caleb - 09/12/2017
120we weren't even talking about money so idk where this came from
121azureblue - 09/12/2017
122its all tied into everything
123if you wanted a religious example its in the bible dude
124"You cannot have two masters, you can either love the one or hate the other"
125"You cannot both love God and money"
126its somewhere in there
127Caleb - 09/12/2017
128sure, money is the root of all evil
129another verse
130azureblue - 09/12/2017
131but
132its a belief
133is it not?
134Caleb - 09/12/2017
135WHAT
136IS
137A
138azureblue - 09/12/2017
139its clarifying that money CAN BE a master
140Caleb - 09/12/2017
141BELIEF
142DO I BELIEVE MONEY EXISTS
143azureblue - 09/12/2017
144ok well dont full caps like you've been looking for that all along
145Caleb - 09/12/2017
146DO I BELIEVE IF I WORK I'LL GET PAID
147azureblue - 09/12/2017
148you asked for belief strength
149Caleb - 09/12/2017
150WELL IM GOIN ALL CAPS
151azureblue - 09/12/2017
152I don't know, these are assumed if you are a member of society
153are they not?
154Caleb - 09/12/2017
155I somewhat think you're trolling me rn
156azureblue - 09/12/2017
157Are you a amember of society? lol
158im not trolling you
159you're not making the same connection
160Caleb - 09/12/2017
161well sorry
162azureblue - 09/12/2017
163you put that belief that if you get worked you get paid yes
164Caleb - 09/12/2017
165i just don't get it
166azureblue - 09/12/2017
167belief in money =
168Those der slips of paper dere gonna get me som food duerrrrr
169all im saying is
170It fulfills a need of the human creature, food, water, shelter
171through trade
172and thus the trust in it
173creates the BELIEF
174in it
175Belief and trust are strongly related
176and since it fulfills bioloigcal need
177the trust and BELIEF in it are much higher
178than something that doesn't, which is why people are atheist
179as they were taught that God is a loving father figure, yet they got nothing tangible
180now you are making the correlation of money being like God, im making the correlation of belief strength like you asked, not specific beliefs and what they entail
181money is not like God, but the beliefs are still strong in one or the other, or both, or neither
182Caleb - 09/12/2017
183I guess I'm lost when you get to belief in money
184can you define belief for me
185azureblue - 09/12/2017
186Belief
187it is something trusted
188and held as a personal truth
189Caleb - 09/12/2017
190and then you lost me when you said.... everything else
191azureblue - 09/12/2017
192I dont know how I could lose you
193Belief is strongly tied with trust and personal truth
194Caleb - 09/12/2017
195if I ask you, "hey, I'll trade you this good for that good."
196what the heck does it mean to say I have a belief in trade
197azureblue - 09/12/2017
198????
199Caleb - 09/12/2017
200ofcourse I do??
201sigh
202azureblue - 09/12/2017
203It means you have a trust in trade
204?
205Caleb - 09/12/2017
206ok
207yes
208i trust the other person will fulfil the agreement
209if I have no other reason not to, if the person is reputable and trustworthy
210sure I trust in the trade
211azureblue - 09/12/2017
212YES
213:smile:
214Caleb - 09/12/2017
215r u srs
216azureblue - 09/12/2017
217wait lemme read the last 2 lines
218>.>
219i reacted to the first 3
220Caleb - 09/12/2017
221bro this better be the light at the end of the tunnel
222azureblue - 09/12/2017
223the thing is trade is more specific than that
224Caleb - 09/12/2017
225cause i gotta sleep
226azureblue - 09/12/2017
227Well i think there wasn't a tunnel to begin with
228Caleb - 09/12/2017
229..........
230k bye
231azureblue - 09/12/2017
232im not in a tunnel here im trying to get your blindfold off
233Caleb - 09/12/2017
234I'm at one end of the tunnel
235you're at the other end
236azureblue - 09/12/2017
237because i still dont know what you dont understand
238Caleb - 09/12/2017
239yeah I still don't understand what you're claiming
240azureblue - 09/12/2017
241about a belief in money being relatable to a belief in god
242and belief in money being stronger
243Caleb - 09/12/2017
244a belief is a belief
245I believe I am sitting in a chair right now
246azureblue - 09/12/2017
247Yes, you pull out your wallet, you see money
248Caleb - 09/12/2017
249I believe the evidence points to a personal Creator
250azureblue - 09/12/2017
251DO YOU BELIEVE that money will buy you food???
252Caleb - 09/12/2017
253a belief is a beliefff
254azureblue - 09/12/2017
255commander
256Caleb - 09/12/2017
257I believe that money will buy me food
258azureblue - 09/12/2017
259Now the second question, currency goes obsolete and holds no value
260DO YOU BELIEVE that money will buy you food NOW?
261Caleb - 09/12/2017
262then it won't buy me food
263azureblue - 09/12/2017
264YES
265Caleb - 09/12/2017
266no I don't believe it
267azureblue - 09/12/2017
268but right now
269IT HAS VALUE
270so you have BELIEF IN IT
271Caleb - 09/12/2017
272right now it does
273sure
274azureblue - 09/12/2017
275do you believe God will buy you food
276?
277Caleb - 09/12/2017
278I believe when I go to the gas station
279I hand the cashier a 20 dollar bill
280she/he will accept it
281and let me pump gas
282I believe that
283azureblue - 09/12/2017
284now the thing that is different between the two
285is that one is physically relatable and one is not
286Caleb - 09/12/2017
287AzureBlue - Today at 11:58 PM
288do you believe God will buy you food
289?
290azureblue - 09/12/2017
291but they are both
292Caleb - 09/12/2017
293?!?!?!?!??!?!
294azureblue - 09/12/2017
295IDEAS
296September 13, 2017
297Caleb - 09/13/2017
298I believe that gravity exists
299I can't see it
300azureblue - 09/13/2017
301money is in essence just a societal construct
302Caleb - 09/13/2017
303but I believe it's there
304and I believe it will keep me anchored to this earth when I wake up tomorrow
305an the next day
306and the day after that
307azureblue - 09/13/2017
308well gravity is an ok analogy but it has a physical effect unlike the common definition of God which lacks it
309Caleb - 09/13/2017
310money as in official currencies is a social construct yes
311but if I trade you a bucket for a lantern, is that really a social construct?
312azureblue - 09/13/2017
313it can be
314its bartering
315and was once part of society and how trade is done and still occurs
316Caleb - 09/13/2017
317is bartering a social construct
318azureblue - 09/13/2017
319its a simpler one
320a much much simpler one
321but yes
322Caleb - 09/13/2017
323language is a social construct
324azureblue - 09/13/2017
325between two people, a small social construct is there
326based on trust
327Caleb - 09/13/2017
328okay I'm with you so far
329azureblue - 09/13/2017
330when money is involved it becomes societal wide in involvement
331Caleb - 09/13/2017
332can we tie this in with God real quick
333azureblue - 09/13/2017
334because a society invented it
335ok
336Caleb - 09/13/2017
337i said real quick
338azureblue - 09/13/2017
339oh i thought you were going to
340Caleb - 09/13/2017
341facepalm no
342azureblue - 09/13/2017
343was waiting for your reply
344i can just thought you were
345ok then
346Caleb - 09/13/2017
347ur the one with the idea
348azureblue - 09/13/2017
349God is also a societal construct
350as the common definition of it applies
351think of maybe
352an ancient pantheon
353in a tribe
354a meteor shoots across the sky, and the head chief says its the night fire god who patrols the skies and rules the night
355all the tribe members see this and on a social level between them all, agree
356this continues on for generations, indoctrinating their children on their pantheon on the night fire god who visited their father, grandfather, great grandfather, and so on
357each generation not seeing this night fire god, only the first creators of the pantheon have
358thus the trust is now not relient on the personal physical experience of sight, of what was called the "Night Fire God"
359but more of trust in the indoctrination and tribal tradition
360than the sight of the meteor itself
361Caleb - 09/13/2017
362I understand what you're saying actually
363azureblue - 09/13/2017
364so socially, the construct has changed, as the original people who saw it, died
365and the generations that now exist
366only go by rumour and legend
367same is with God today
368Caleb - 09/13/2017
369there's some problems
370azureblue - 09/13/2017
371and the common social understanding of the BIble
372now, spirituality and metaphysics is its own topic
373that is purely towards the individual
374Caleb - 09/13/2017
375k pause
376azureblue - 09/13/2017
377if they have an experience and set it towards the definition of God
378they were brought up with
379ok
380go
381Caleb - 09/13/2017
382AzureBlue - Today at 12:05 AM
383God is also a societal construct
384azureblue - 09/13/2017
385yes
386and i explained why
387Caleb - 09/13/2017
388not sure how you substantiate that claim, from what I gather from your scenario you've layed out with the tribe and the fire god, I think people can create a sort of cult-ish social construct around ANYTHING, but that doesn't make the thing itself, i.e. the fire god itself, a social construct, so I think you're wrong to say that God is a social construct.  People make social constructs out of lots of things, doesn't mean that thing itself is a social construct.
389azureblue - 09/13/2017
390sure
391that is implied
392lol
393Caleb - 09/13/2017
394sure people can be gullible and believe a fire god
395azureblue - 09/13/2017
396we know the night fire god is a meteor
397but the tribals did not
398you understand?
399yes you did
400so whats not to make the analogy
401that god is like a meteor
402to modern society?
403Caleb - 09/13/2017
404?
405azureblue - 09/13/2017
406and we don't know what God really is yet
407until we get there
408Caleb - 09/13/2017
409did u even read what I said
410azureblue - 09/13/2017
411yes i did
412and im responding
413so I think you're wrong to say that God is a social construct
414^^^^
415Caleb - 09/13/2017
416people can create social constructs out of anything, yes or no?
417azureblue - 09/13/2017
418People make social constructs out of lots of things, doesn't mean that thing itself is a social construct.
419Caleb - 09/13/2017
420so we agree?
421??
422azureblue - 09/13/2017
423sure they can
424if they decide to
425Caleb - 09/13/2017
426so God is not a social construct
427agree?
428gravity is not a social construct
429water is not a social construct
430this chair is not a social construct
431azureblue - 09/13/2017
432i cant agree or disagree with you because you because God is not relatable to gravity or water or chairs
433God is a social construct in how religion makes it
434because God is a product of religion, religion is a social construct
435Caleb - 09/13/2017
436religion is a social construct
437azureblue - 09/13/2017
438Religion is a social construct <------
439Caleb - 09/13/2017
440God is not
441azureblue - 09/13/2017
442God is a product of religion
443Caleb - 09/13/2017
444no
445azureblue - 09/13/2017
446your idea of god is personal
447thats what im getting at
448your idea of God will always be personal
449no matter what
450unless its religious dogma
451then its a social construct
452my idea of God is a social construct
453Caleb - 09/13/2017
454my idea of water is personal too
455without it I'll die
456that's very personal to me
457azureblue - 09/13/2017
458no
459thats a biological need
460Caleb - 09/13/2017
461also personal
462azureblue - 09/13/2017
463yes, if you want to make that distinction
464and pair it with your biological need
465Caleb - 09/13/2017
466ur making that distinction
467actually
468azureblue - 09/13/2017
469You will die if you do not have water - biological, and I will die if i dont have water -- personal statment and belief
470they are both tied in to each other
471Caleb - 09/13/2017
472ok
473azureblue - 09/13/2017
474as a mental holding and biological fact
475Caleb - 09/13/2017
476what's your final point as we end this conversation
477azureblue - 09/13/2017
478well ive been answering questions this whole time
479but
480my point was to answer your questions really actually
481Caleb - 09/13/2017
482because yo uasked me to ask you where I didn't understand
483azureblue - 09/13/2017
484ok then my final point is
485what more do you not understand
486lol
487Caleb - 09/13/2017
488everything
489goodnight
490azureblue - 09/13/2017
491lol
492Caleb - 09/13/2017
493lul
494azureblue - 09/13/2017
495welp that sucks
496:frowning:
497tried to give the best explanation
498welp gl then cummander
499https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/1816628-pale-blue-dot-a-vision-of-the-human-future-in-space
500Pale Blue Dot Quotes by Carl Sagan
501101 quotes from Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space: ‘Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you lo...