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1Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
2@Elysia this is actually serious enough to be a mods-only discussion imo, so lets have it here
3Feels like the kinda thing that is EXACTLY why we draw a line between officials and mods
4[6:59 PM] dp876: K'sa is apparently about to quit URPG altogether and hand Park to you and Smiles
5Nitro - 11/27/2017
6I'm not sure how much I can contribute to this specific conversation, but I've actually been feeling some of what DP talked about. Can't really pinpoint it, but recently I've felt like this community has brought out a negative side of me, and a lot of times I just log on to be sad and angry. I don't know who to blame. I don't trust people and assume that, in this environment, they think the worst of me. Some of it are the toxic politics, and I'm sure some of it is me being eager to participate. I actually had the thought of disappearing for a while, and if I wasn't hosting the tournament, I probably would have.(edited)
7It's not the point at hand, but I really needed to get that off my chest -- and I really sympathize with where DP is at
8Elysia - 11/27/2017
9hi
10sorry
11can confirm that this is happening
12in a meeting
13I admit to probably being at the heart of this
14to save anyone pointing fingers idk
15Nitro - 11/27/2017
16It's not you, it feels like it's everyone(edited)
17Elysia - 11/27/2017
18I'll add that weir has been ridiculously civil to me and I had no idea this was happening
19he kicked me from urpg times but said it was accidental and now I'm back in, so I thought it was chill
20Smiles - 11/27/2017
21Sorry, I can't hold back on this, just going to have to say what I feel - but what Weir has done here has been the pettiest thing I've ever seen on my online life. To draw that much divisiveness from the community (blocking people who support beautiful creativity he "doesn't agree with") and were once his friends to me seems like the most toxic thing anyone could do on an online community. Just a gut reaction
22Nitro - 11/27/2017
23Weir is two-faced, and I can't trust anyone because I don't know what the fuck kind of hate he might be whispering into the ears of my friends
24Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
25I agree entirely, I just can't figure out why myself
26Is it a show of loyalty to K'Sa, is he K'sas whipped little bitch, does this have nothing to do with her and it's his own pettiness but if so why is he so invested
27@Nitro that's very much one reason why I made this a mods-only discussion. Too many sensitive parties at other levels
28Smiles - 11/27/2017
29This whole thing makes me revoke my earlier belief in him and staff kindness to him thus far. Maybe we should have banned him at the audit x:
30Elysia - 11/27/2017
31I dropped a quick feeler and ralin isn't blocked yet
32Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
33I'm not a fan of "should haves" though I'm not sure I'd disagree with you
34Nitro - 11/27/2017
35I can't tell if it's just Weir or if half of this community refuses to be direct
36Elysia - 11/27/2017
37I don't know if banning him will help
38Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
39It's half the community
40Elysia - 11/27/2017
41he has a lot of people on his side
42Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
43Weir just seems to be at the surface of it at lot
44Nitro - 11/27/2017
45I used to think that the closed chat with Weir and them was like a 2.0 of the chat I had with Syn and Smores years ago, but we were at least open about being pricks
46Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
47Having a bitch chat is one thing but when it becomes an actual gang that breeds dissent against authority and holds grudges against other individuals / groups, it becomes a serious problem
48Smiles - 11/27/2017
49I'm not even sure what he's looking to get out of stirring this much drama
50Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
51It's not going to change where Onmyo goes
52Nitro - 11/27/2017
53Well wait
54If they hand Park to Ely and Smiles
55Can we just replace Park with Onmyo
56Elysia - 11/27/2017
57I don't want park
58Smiles - 11/27/2017
59^
60Elysia - 11/27/2017
61this is not a valid solution
62Nitro - 11/27/2017
63The way it originally should've been handled
64Elysia - 11/27/2017
65I mean yes but like
66Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
67It's the original solution lmao
68Elysia - 11/27/2017
69that will send across a terrible message
70Smiles - 11/27/2017
71This really seems like "I didn't get what I wanted so I'm going to quit" and I can't see it outside of that rn ):
72Elysia - 11/27/2017
73old mods driving new staff to quit and then stealing their stuff
74or smiles's way of pitching it
75the original merger was people working together to bring life to a dying section and I fucking wish we could've left it at that
76Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
77I'm just trying to understand here. Onmyo as it currently exists is very much your work. But does she feel that you took an idea she had worked on originally and stole it to make your own section?
78(not saying she's right, I'm asking if that's what she thinks)
79Elysia - 11/27/2017
80honestly I don't even know if she's quitting
81this is what dp said weir said k'sa said
82I trust dp
83Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
84The merger ended up a mess for a variety of reasons and I could point bits of blame everywhere but there's no value in doing that
85Elysia - 11/27/2017
86the rest of the chain I'm not sure of
87yeah I'll eat shit on the failure of the merger too
88that's whatever
89Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
90Hey, I'd rather have dp back
91That would be a good outcome here
92Elysia - 11/27/2017
93I'm just saying that a situation where k'sa ragequits and gives park to anyone is nothing at all like the original intent
94Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
95I know
96Elysia - 11/27/2017
97yeah ngl if this happened I wouldn't come back either
98*if I were her
99this "pick which of your friends to keep" bullshit would have me peacing the fuck out
100Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
101I wouldn't even call this petty the more I think about it. TED blocking people was petty. This is spiteful and vindictive
102Smiles - 11/27/2017
103yes, agreed
104Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
105Can someone explain why Ralin and DP are even associated? Because they're seniors in your other sections? Because they showed impartial support as URPG members when brought to public forum?(edited)
106Smiles - 11/27/2017
107I believe Ralin originally knew Weir and Sari before URPG, so that's why they're close
108Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
109I mean, why is Weir naming them as people to be blocked
110ESPECIALLY if he knew them before, wtf
111Smiles - 11/27/2017
112that's the ugly part
113Elysia - 11/27/2017
114[7:23 PM] dp876: I don't think it was SB
115[7:23 PM] dp876: Weir knew I had nothing to do with SB and admitted as much
116[7:25 PM] dp876: I mean, it's just association
117[7:26 PM] dp876: To you/Smiles/the creative sections. Same for Ralin
118Smiles - 11/27/2017
119Ralin is the most wonderful and precious of friends, to try to involve him like this is so bad
120Elysia - 11/27/2017
121afaik it's because they grade and do AH
122Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
123Pathetic
124Nitro - 11/27/2017
125that's pathetic
126yeah nice
127Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
128If I blocked people I disagreed with or pissed me off I'd have nobody left to talk to
129Elysia - 11/27/2017
130if you blocked friends of people who pissed you off
131I'll accept that I sassed him and audited him
132that's on me
133Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
134That too, god
135Elysia - 11/27/2017
136that has absolutely nothing to do with my or his friends
137Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
138k my turn for a meeting
139I really dont know how to address this
140I can up front call him on alienating innocent people
141I want to clearly separate "youre entitled to have an issue with X person but not Y people"
142Nitro - 11/27/2017
143I think it's a lot easier if you had somebody that knew him well, who could call him out it
144Like, the best way to resolve toxic behavior has to be friends calling each other out when they're being toxic
145I've probably enabled Weir in the past which is very heavy on the mind
146Smiles - 11/27/2017
147I am so anxious and revolted by this unfortunate storm Weir's drawn up - to be so toxic you have someone leave a community they really vibe with... happened to DP, who knows who else it'll happen to because of him or who else he talked to with that same message, and from that point, who may be fearful to speak up because he has so much influence. I really don't know what to say(edited)
148Nitro - 11/27/2017
149He otherwise strikes me as someone who would be weaselly and deny everything(edited)
150Elysia - 11/27/2017
151also this probably goes without saying but I don't think dp wants what she said to me shared with anyone
152even mods
153Nitro - 11/27/2017
154I genuinely have no read on where I stand with Weir, but anyway, if you want me around for that meeting, I'll happily be there
155HKim - 11/27/2017
156Probably good to only have a few of us there.
157Just to avoid a whole ganging up feeling from coming up
158Nitro - 11/27/2017
159I hear that
160HKim - 11/27/2017
161This shouldn't have escalated this far.
162Elysia - 11/27/2017
163I can send you my DM history with him for the past eternity
164he never said anything directly to me that suggested he hated me this much
165HKim - 11/27/2017
166I'd like to see that, yes.
167Nitro is right, however.
168Calling out Weir in a meeting isn't going to resolve things as well as a friend talking to him about it.
169And if Weir truly is the face of a portion of the community, we're only poking the bear, so to speak.
170Things need to be resolved diplomatically at multiple levels.
171Even if not to a karmic satisfaction
172âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
173I volunteer as tribute, I guess.  I believe I'm the only staff Weir has visited irl and therefore probably the one he'd be most open to talking to.
174(Other than K'sa, of course)
175@Liam backread here
176Elysia - 11/27/2017
177https://pastebin.com/D2TtUHr6
178Pastebin
179Brock - 03/02/2017 hey has Mirrors been submitted for the Library yet? I was - Pastebin.com
180
181I have nothing to hide
182at some point I talked about how FD losing e4 was sad and I'm sorry to ash(edited)
183Liam - 11/27/2017
184and I just saw this
185Elysia - 11/27/2017
186that is my entire unedited history with weir
187Liam - 11/27/2017
188my bad, am backreading now
189Elysia - 11/27/2017
190I don't think dealing with him diplomatically is possible
191even scrolling through our DM's I can see some of the lies he told
192it's unsettling
193anyway, yeah, sorry this also contains me being angry at harry for not letting weir send gifts
194I'm over that now in case that's a concern
195but going through 8 months of dm's
196Smiles - 11/27/2017
197I would also have to echo Ely's sentiment here. This is someone who's displayed clear acts of malicious aggression to separate the urpg community at large on this (with some of that intention already realized with DP's leaving) and I'm not comfortable with even the idea of catering to him by opening a dialogue with him
198Elysia - 11/27/2017
199I think we should open up a dialogue but at this point I've seen him lie to my face way too many times
200that pastebin is 16,000 words long
201Smiles - 11/27/2017
202mhhm, I just see this as "actions speak louder than words" and this was clearly not a mistake on his part
203Elysia - 11/27/2017
204he mentioned being upset with me precisely once
205also I c/p'ed this from discord and there's a cap on how much you can paste at a time, so if there are gaps in the conversation, it's probably because the tail end got deleted
206please let me know; I tried to patch them
207I am not trying to censor anything
208Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
209Not really touching on this specific time but in general it seems like Weir has done enough that if he was a "normal member" he would probably have been banned, but because he essentially singlehandedly revived contests he's been allowed to get away with a lot more
210Elysia - 11/27/2017
211I mean a lot of it is hard to pin down
212he's good at acting like nothing is wrong
213Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
214Yeah
215Elysia - 11/27/2017
216we technically can't blame him for dp quitting
217like that is her decision
218even if what he did to her is one of the scummiest things I've seen on the internet
219Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
220But we know something is wrong, it's just we can't give specifics most of the time
221Elysia - 11/27/2017
222yeah
223Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
224And while it may seem bad, there's absolutely soemthing to be said about cutting off a diseased branch before it reaches the rest of the tree, but it seems like we're too late
225Elysia - 11/27/2017
226if we ban him we're going to eat a lot of shit
227the fact that we aren't comfortable having this conversation in #staff should indicate how fucked we are in that regard lol
228Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
229yup
230It seems like we're in a damned if we do damned if we don't situation
231Just with anythingw e do with him
232Even just talking
233Liam - 11/27/2017
234so I don't mind talking to him
235Smiles - 11/27/2017
236I'd rather eat it all, drink all the tea, etc etc than see someone go out there and threaten / bully DP and Ralin like that. revolting.
237Liam - 11/27/2017
238he's suppose to come visit me in a few weeks too though so awks
239Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
240If only it was like this weekend would make talking to him easier
241Liam - 11/27/2017
242but I agree this behavior is way past shit and toxic to the community
243Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
244who knows maybe he could disappear after your visit, you work ina hospital after all
245Liam - 11/27/2017
246if anything, I think he shouldn't hold any position of responsibility in URPG, i.e. chief judge/contest boss head or w/e that's going to be, as well as a ban from invitational and maybe URPG for a solid month
247Elysia - 11/27/2017
248month will not cover it
249he will come back angrier than ever
250and find a way to make everyone hate someone for it
251Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
252I'm totally game for a temp ban at least to start, but what's the reasoning we can say
253Liam - 11/27/2017
254a month (or two) is a long time to reflect on why he got banned
255Elysia - 11/27/2017
256we already reset him
257Liam - 11/27/2017
258give him time away from the community to think about his actions
259Elysia - 11/27/2017
260I mean yes okay we can't talk bans without talking to him
261Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
262Well, we have to make sure we're on when he would come back and at the first sign of trouble he's gone
263Elysia - 11/27/2017
264but he's not going to think; he's going to get angry
265Smiles - 11/27/2017
266We have evidence of clear coercion and an intention to separate the urpg community, that itself is enough
267Elysia - 11/27/2017
268he had six months to think about why I audited him and his conclusion was to not break the rules in a trackable way any more and then to tear down everything I founded(edited)
269that is absurd
270Liam - 11/27/2017
271this is different though
272Elysia - 11/27/2017
273and the whole way through we talked shit about how red cards work and what our favorite fanfics are
274Liam - 11/27/2017
275he broke the rules in a mechanical way before
276Elysia - 11/27/2017
277yeah and the people who caught him were me and smiles
278Liam - 11/27/2017
279this time he broke the rules in a societal way
280Elysia - 11/27/2017
281I don't think it's a coincidence
282Liam - 11/27/2017
283no I don't either
284Elysia - 11/27/2017
285*not caught, but compiled the data to confront him
286HKim - 11/27/2017
287Punishing Weir in any way is going to invite backlash.
288Elysia - 11/27/2017
289fire me too
290I don't give a fuck
291what he's doing is horrible
292HKim - 11/27/2017
293Whether we should or not, that's just the result.
294Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
295Yeah
296Liam - 11/27/2017
297I think we should have a hard sit down chat on what is and is not okay and then let him know his punishment
298Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
299But, he isn't going to go quietly in any way
300HKim - 11/27/2017
301^
302Liam - 11/27/2017
303that's fine
304seriously
305Smiles - 11/27/2017
306I'd gladly invite all the backlash if it makes URPG a productive and safe place for people to have fun; his toxicity will only go once he does
307Elysia - 11/27/2017
308I would rather he explode than keep trying to sow this petty shit
309Smiles - 11/27/2017
310^^^^^
311Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
312We can't do the same kind of thing that happened with Pidge, so we are going to face backlash and we'll just have to power through it
313HKim - 11/27/2017
314Sometimes we don't want an explosion, guys.
315Smiles - 11/27/2017
316Someone's already left the server because of him; there's one explosion
317I don't want us to hold these ticking time bombs in hand and pretend like we don't know they're going to go off
318HKim - 11/27/2017
319I'd argue that was inevitable given the conflict we already had was never resolved.
320The whole Park/SB conflict between the leadership was the source of all of this.
321Elysia - 11/27/2017
322DP was a good friend to anyone and a valuable grader and chronicler
323she had nothing to do with SB
324Smiles - 11/27/2017
325I must be missing something; the conflict was resolved, Park decided what they wanted to do. It was ended.
326Liam - 11/27/2017
327last night in the ER we had a girl who started screaming and throwing shit, the staff wanted to calm her down by talking her down, but she wasn't responding, only getting worse, so security came, tied her down, and we gave her a shot to put her to sleep because we have other shit to deal with. If weir wants to fight and scream, fine, we can deal the best we can
328Elysia - 11/27/2017
329she is one of the most promising new members
330harry I offered to give k'sa full executive control over SB and she still refused
331HKim - 11/27/2017
332I talked about this witha  few  people
333Elysia - 11/27/2017
334I'm sorry if you think that it could've been handled better
335I did what I thought was right
336HKim - 11/27/2017
337We needed a cathartic meeting to resolve feelings.
338In addition to the roleplaying details.
339Elysia - 11/27/2017
340what
341Soulmaster - 11/27/2017
342We've tried with Weir iirc, but he always lies and says he's fine after a couple minutes
343Elysia - 11/27/2017
344weir is a chronic liar
345there is no catharsis to be found here
346HKim - 11/27/2017
347It's not Weir that I'm talknig about
348Elysia - 11/27/2017
349I'm not sure I understand, then.(edited)
350HKim - 11/27/2017
351The underlying tension and conflict has, at least as far as I know, always been the divide (perceived or not) because of the Park/SB stuff.
352And that has spread to other....
353things, for a lack of a better word.
354Elysia - 11/27/2017
355do you want me dm's with k'sa
356as well
357HKim - 11/27/2017
358No, I'm simplying saying that we approached the problem only halfway.
359And that's mainly my fault for not being more involved in this.
360Elysia - 11/27/2017
361regardless of how SB was handled, this does not remotely justify weir's actions
362Liam - 11/27/2017
363^
364HKim - 11/27/2017
365I'm not quite finished.
366We need a long term solution, not simply a punishment of Weir.
367Else we're merely prolonging the problem or exacerbating it
368Liam - 11/27/2017
369I agree
370but
371that would need talking to Sari, either privately, or with Felly to talk about Park and Park/SB to clear all that as well as us possibly talking to anyone else we'd suspect of following weir's dissent (which I don't think/know of anyone else, an hope there aren't, but that would need to happen too for a long term solution)
372on top of whatever we decide to do with weir
373HKim - 11/27/2017
374Only the key individuals, Liam.
375There are leaders in everything.
376Movers and shakers.
377And the URPG is not so big that such a task would be monumental.
378Not to mention both K'sa and Felly are familiar with how we operate as a staff and the need for solid leadership.
379Such a talk with either of them would be more about feelings than anything else.
380Weir would need to be addressed, and what he did was petty, but he's only the result of a problem that should also be solved.
381Liam - 11/27/2017
382no
383he's causing problems
384he's no longer the result of anything
385Smiles - 11/27/2017
386To be blunt, I think we already opened up multiple dialogues for feelings and they were all ignored; I think we need action now, as soon as possible, to protect our members
387HKim - 11/27/2017
388No Smiles, I disagree with you on that front.   I think we needed a stronger focus on feelings.
389And Liam, Weir can be both a cause of problems and a result of a problem.
390The two are not mutually exclusive.
391Liam - 11/27/2017
392I understand, but he's past a threashold
393HKim - 11/27/2017
394To an extent, but if Weir had never existed, I suspect that dp would have still sensed the divide being experienced in the URPG at the moment.
395Smiles - 11/27/2017
396sorry, gotta bring it back to the original quote at hand - "I'm blocking everyone associated with SB. I've already blocked the creators and sorry but I have to block you and Ralin too, wanted to let you guys know in advance." ...Which is why I prefaced this because it obviously relates to you. :P
397
398He said he's torn about what happened and so is K'sa, and he can't be friends with "someone who thinks what Elysia does is okay" (his words, not mine).
399Liam - 11/27/2017
400there is a large difference between sensing a divide in the community that could use some hashing out to smooth over, and getting a message that you're being blocked because of your connection to the creative community
401she is also a judge and he is a chief judge
402Smiles - 11/27/2017
403This is immense drama and a way to tear apart the community started by one person, I'm not even sure why we would privilege his perspective at this time
404HKim - 11/27/2017
405I'm not saying what Weir did was wrong, but we cannot approach this as simply a problem regarding him.
406Else we're just ignoring the underlying cause.
407Liam - 11/27/2017
408you're correct
409but when we address him
410we shouldn't give him any sense of reason that what he did was justified
411saying "there was a underlying problem" will give him that
412HKim - 11/27/2017
413Sounds a little manipulative.
414Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I suppose.
415Liam - 11/27/2017
416on our behalf?
417because what I'd like to prevent is giving him gunfire for manipulation
418if that's me being manipulative, then fine
419Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
420I know theres underlying reasons for what he's doing
421That doesnt make it okay
422Liam - 11/27/2017
423^
424Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
425I opened this chat with mods only not because this is exactly the kind of thing that requires the experience and displinary action that we take people from Official to Mod for in the first place
426If he wanted to act like a cunt to Elysia (sorry Ely) that wouldnt be okay either but at least it could be attributed to the underlying issue
427The fact that he is outrightly telling people, innocent, unaffiliated people, that he cant be friends with them because of who their friends are is pathetic
428And its maliciously cruel
429He's not just going about his business and avoiding people he doesnt want to talk to
430He's TELLING them theres a divide
431Hes MAKING a divide
432HKim - 11/27/2017
433There already is a divine.
434divide*
435Anything that occurs in leadership will spread to the community.
436Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
437Between two small groups
438HKim - 11/27/2017
439That's always how it starts.
440Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
441DP and Ralin have nothing to do with the Park/Onmyo
442HKim - 11/27/2017
443I'd argue they didn't have anything to do with it until Weir forced them to.
444Which is why we're having this conversation.
445His poor actions.
446Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
447I agree, because hes at fault
448Actually no, they STILL have nothing to do with the actual sections
449Theyre just URPG members who enjoy stories and AH
450HKim - 11/27/2017
451I'm talking about the divide, not the sections.
452Not saying they chose a side or anything.
453But that it affected them.
454Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
455Because of him, yes
456HKim - 11/27/2017
457Because of us.
458Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
459He widened the divide and caused it to swallow more people
460HKim - 11/27/2017
461We should have resolved it better ourselves
462Liam - 11/27/2017
463yes
464Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
465How exactly?
466Liam - 11/27/2017
467but that's a should have
468HKim - 11/27/2017
469Honesty Monbrey, maybe we did our best, but I'd like to think that we could have done better.  A better focus on feelings and a discussion of them.
470It's not the perfect solution, but most things are rarely perfect.
471Liam - 11/27/2017
472hindsight's a bitch, but you should only learn from it, not take blame for current or future issues
473HKim - 11/27/2017
474We're the leaders, Liam, we are at fault when things go wrong.
475That's our burden.
476Smiles - 11/27/2017
477I'm sorry, I just don't think we should wear kids gloves to hold a grown man's drama
478Liam - 11/27/2017
479I understand, but that does not take away from anything weir did
480Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
481His actions are truly pathetic
482HKim - 11/27/2017
483No it doesn't, but we're becomign too focused on one person when we need to address the whoel thing.
484Including Weir, yes.
485Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
486Okay
487So, how do we address the whole thing that is CAUSING Weir to be such a toxic piece of shit (that we definitely arent excusing him for)
488Liam - 11/27/2017
489I said it already, but I do think we should sit down with sari and felly and hash out any continuous issues they have with park/onmyo; but that's separate from the weir issue
490HKim - 11/27/2017
491Liam is correct.  The chat would be about feelings more than details, I believe.
492It wouldn't be all of us, of course.  Just the leaders involved and those there to... moderate the discussion.
493Liam - 11/27/2017
494and honestly, I think sari will be bitter and angry afterward, and we may have to lay down the law and say "what's done is done unfortunately, parties have apologized, move on for the sake of the community or step down"
495HKim - 11/27/2017
496To be fair, Liam, that might be more than her.
497Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
498Yeah I have a lot of frustrations here
499At this point, she has nobody to blame but herself if she doesnt like Onmyo because she had every opportunity to take it on board/get involved
500Liam - 11/27/2017
501^
502HKim - 11/27/2017
503It can't just be finger pointing.  It has to be about how an action made someone feel.
504Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
505Thats not to say the Onmyo team couldnt have handled things better but I do believe there was genuine attempts to rectify what they could
506Liam - 11/27/2017
507like, she can be upset and has rights to be, but at some point she needs to get over it and grow up and do what's best 'cause she's cohead of park
508Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
509And most of all, not to have Weir act as some kind of mercenary who alienates innocent parties
510To the point that they dont feel comfortable in URPG
511HKim - 11/27/2017
512We can't assume she's the cause of Weir's action.
513In terms of...
514directing him
515Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
516A lot of people treat URPG like a safe space, and its no longer safe because of his actions
517Liam - 11/27/2017
518I don't think she did direct him honestly
519HKim - 11/27/2017
520Weir has to stand on his own two feet for his crimes.
521Liam - 11/27/2017
522but I bet you her bitterness and private convos influenced him heavily
523HKim - 11/27/2017
524I think there is a lot of bitterness to go around.
525Soemthing I hope we can sresolve in the convo
526To a certain extent.
527It should never have been an issue.  Everyone involved were good friends before it all went south.
528I hate to believe that nothing remains of that connection.
529But does Liam's solution sound satisfactory to everyone regarding the leadership divide?
530Liam - 11/27/2017
531that being:
532
533Hold a meeting between Park (Felly/Sari) and Onmyo (Ely/Nits/Smiles/idek if I need to be there but can be) and hash out all the bullcrap, get the apologizes needed done, and make sure parties know that they, as leaders, are expected to move on, work with each other, and not inspire dissent.
534separate from what we do with weir
535Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
536Sure
537Elysia - 11/27/2017
538I don't know why other people are being brought in for what, to me, is obviously weir stirring up shit
539but sure
540let's put the stress on k'sa and felly
541harry I honest to god offered apologies to both of them
542felly told me she was fine
543k'sa was not receptive but she took my offer of handing over SB seriously and responded with respect
544Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
545She probably is
546Respectfully declined I should point out
547Elysia - 11/27/2017
548^yeah
549she even asked to make sure that this was actually what I wanted
550to me it's incredibly obvious is that the anger and hatred is coming from weir
551HKim - 11/27/2017
552It clearly isn't resolved, as we've seen ehre.
553Elysia - 11/27/2017
554how is it not resolved with k'sa?
555she isn't the one telling people to stop associating with us
556what weir chooses to take away from this is on him, not on park
557HKim - 11/27/2017
558liam is right.  Weir is probably being influenced by K'sa's discussions regarding this.
559Liam - 11/27/2017
560then maybe all that's needed it to have felly/sari be more vocal about how there isn't an issue/divide, because them being p silent on all things Onmyo related isn't helping
561Elysia - 11/27/2017
562weir has consistently been the snakey one and I don't understand why we're turning this back to Park leadership
563he's been dodgy with me before this started
564Elysia - 11/27/2017
565he's using SB as an excuse to escalate his actions but it's been a long time coming
566HKim - 11/27/2017
567Weir does stupid stuff, but I don't think he's using this an excuse.
568Elysia - 11/27/2017
569he's specifically targetting people who support SB, me, and smiles
570and telling them to pick sides in a war he created
571HKim - 11/27/2017
572Pft, he's not politically astute enough to wait for an excuse.
573Elysia - 11/27/2017
574note how DP was the first one to speak up against weir and say that SB was a good idea
575belittling and underestimating people will get us no where
576he's charismatic and has a lot of friends; he understands how to play things out
577dr. frownies | smiles - Today at 9:44 PM
578I'm sorry, I just don't think we should wear kids gloves to hold a grown man's drama
579Liam - 11/27/2017
580he doesn't have to be politically astute, just advantageous
581Elysia - 11/27/2017
582we can meet with park and solve that separately as a different issue
583but this cannot be the only action we take regarding weir
584HKim - 11/27/2017
585Obviouisly not, as we stated multiple times
586That thatw as a separate action.
587Elysia - 11/27/2017
588I apologize for missing something in the crossfire; I just find it weird that this is the first thing we hash out/deciding it first seems to make it a priority
589it being the park/sb fun chats
590despite a huge lack of evidence that there's even a need for them
591when weir actually made someone quit the community instead of picking sides
592HKim - 11/27/2017
593I'd say there is incredible evidence there is a need for them.
594It's not just Weir, of course.  I have other conversations that indicate the need for a chat.
595I should have been more...
596direct in pushing for one.
597Liam - 11/27/2017
598to be blunt, the people who are making the divide are moreso weir/gray/magik
599like it was a divide that had patchy endings, but those members seemed to have latched onto it for more of an attack on ely/smiles than anything else due to previous grievances
600Elysia - 11/27/2017
601gray used the salt server vc to talk about assaulting me
602not that it was relevant to the weir convo at all
603but in case you think this is just a park leadership issue and not a "weir turning his friends against people" issue
604Liam - 11/27/2017
605so I really am seeing less of an issue to talk to park and make this divide go away than it being used as a scapegoat to attack members
606HKim - 11/27/2017
607Gotta solve the problem from both ends of the equation.
608Elysia - 11/27/2017
609like by all means, let's talk it over with park
610HKim - 11/27/2017
611But we are wasting time.  We already have the parik/sb stuff solution
612What do you want to do with Weir?
613Elysia - 11/27/2017
614ban him
615it will cause shit
616Smiles - 11/27/2017
617ban
618Elysia - 11/27/2017
619but at this point it needs to be done.
620Liam - 11/27/2017
621at minimum temp ban for a long while
622HKim - 11/27/2017
623You're not in favor of a permanent ban, Liam?
624Liam - 11/27/2017
625I can be
626I'm not all too opposed
627I'm catholic though, so repentance and changing of ways is a big thing for me, but he does need to leave the community for a good amount of time if not for good
628HKim - 11/27/2017
629I'm not sure he'd repent, Liam.
630Smiles - 11/27/2017
631I mean I'm a christian buddhist, the way to go is to lead people to the path of righteousness
632have to let people grow and become adults
633Liam - 11/27/2017
634if you're not sure he'd repent, then perma ban
635HKim - 11/27/2017
636If we're just going to ban him, do we even need to talk to him?
637Liam - 11/27/2017
638I would yea
639because he still talks to gray, xali, and sari and a bunch of other people
640so he should know why we're doing what we're doing if anything else
641HKim - 11/27/2017
642We should prepare for the fallout, including as was mentioned earlier, the complete loss of Park leadership and the transferrence of it to Elysia/Nitro
643I'd give it 50/50 of it happening
644Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
645Im Australian
646I say we make him box a kangaroo
647HKim - 11/27/2017
648Is that worse than a ban?
649Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
650Yes
651HKim - 11/27/2017
652Australians are weird.
653Elysia - 11/27/2017
654give park/SB to nitro
655if that's the only thing
656Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
657dp should just BMG ban him for being so toxic /shrug(edited)
658Elysia - 11/27/2017
659DP is a good person and is blaming herself for this somehow
660harry, I didn't get to respond to your comment earlier, but I don't think standard urpg drama would've scared her away
661HKim - 11/27/2017
662Will she blame herself if we ban Weir?
663Elysia - 11/27/2017
664no
665HKim - 11/27/2017
666I hope not, at any rate.
667Liam - 11/27/2017
668we can talk to her about it too
669like I know ely has been
670Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
671This isnt standard URPG drama
672Obviously she knew there were issues
673But now shes been personally targetted because of it
674Liam - 11/27/2017
675but she should know that none of this is her fault
676HKim - 11/27/2017
677Guess what your definition of standard is.
678This kind of stuff happens every 4 or 5 years.
679Elysia - 11/27/2017
680pidge wasn't this bad
681HKim - 11/27/2017
682Pft, sure he was.
683Elysia - 11/27/2017
684it's irrelevant to this anyhow
685I have to step out for a bit; sorry
686HKim - 11/27/2017
687I think that if Park leadership does crumble
688The logicial solution is jsut replace it with SB.
689It was the original plan anyway.
690I know we can talk abotu this later, but honestly, I want us to be ready for potential issues.
691Liam - 11/27/2017
692yea
693Elysia - 11/27/2017
694nitro was prepared to take over SB-park originally and I fully support him if it happens again
695Liam - 11/27/2017
696it'd be messy, but yea, I do think that may become a best solution
697Elysia - 11/27/2017
698putting me at the head of any replacement for park will guarantee that it's blacklisted by people who share weir's sentiments
699HKim - 11/27/2017
700Well to be fair, they might jsut all quit the RUPG
701Liam - 11/27/2017
702oh wow a toxic community leaving on their own, I'm so sad, no please stay
703Smiles - 11/27/2017
704^^^^
705HKim - 11/27/2017
706Which would mean you could stay on as head of Park, Elysia.
707Or whatever youw ant to call it
708Liam - 11/27/2017
709not that I don't trust ely or think she's not capable
710Smiles - 11/27/2017
711And if we're going to ever talk about feelings, will we talk about what this has done to the SB dev team, in particular Ely, who's been noble and patient across this entire process and doesn't deserve all of this targeted at her
712Liam - 11/27/2017
713but I'd be behind nits taking head if this all went down anyway(edited)
714also all that ^^^^
715HKim - 11/27/2017
716It would be my decision if things go down that way regarding the Park.
717Other potential fallout includes.
718Though I believe this to be a very minimal chance of happening.
719A....
720Seperate URPg being created.
721I don't think they have the numbers for it though.
722But such a split isn't unheard of, may I remind you.  The URPG itself is one of two RPGs that claimed inheritance to Ultimate RPG.
723Elysia - 11/27/2017
724unrelated to SB-Park, but is there a way that we can pitch this to him that doesn't implicate DP for talking to me
725Liam - 11/27/2017
726sure
727HKim - 11/27/2017
728We'd have to bring up DP, though.
729Liam - 11/27/2017
730well
731HKim - 11/27/2017
732It's the entire reason we're banning him.
733
734Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
735But I think its serious enough that the team should know
736Blame me if you need to
737HKim - 11/27/2017
738Can I blame you for other stuff?
739Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
740If its my fault
741C:/Users/Monbrey/Documents/Apologies/URPG/dumbshitthatwasntactuallymyfault.txt
742HKim - 11/27/2017
743Is that the list of generic apologies we can post everytime someone gets mad at you?
744Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
745Yeah thats the one
746Elysia - 11/27/2017
747no, no blame
748I just don't want her to have to take a hit on this if we can avoid it somehow
749Elysia - 11/27/2017
750I passed some info on to monbrey without clearing it with her first and that was probably a breach of her trust
751Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
752Yeah this is very tricky
753HKim - 11/27/2017
754That is a problem
755Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
756Very much like when cops cant do anything in domestic violence cases if nobody will press charges'
757HKim - 11/27/2017
758^\
759Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
760At the very least I dont regret making the mods aware that this kind of behaviour is going on
761Have @Nitro and @Liam been blocked then?(edited)
762Liam - 11/27/2017
763from this?
764lol from what?
765Elysia - 11/27/2017
766for being associated with SB
767Liam - 11/27/2017
768ooooh
769HKim - 11/27/2017
770I blocked them from the secret pony channel
771Liam - 11/27/2017
772I'm dumb
773Elysia - 11/27/2017
774nitro I'm pretty sure is not blocked
775Liam - 11/27/2017
776I actually don't know
777Elysia - 11/27/2017
778I think because of how the initial pitch went, it was mostly smiles/nitro/I involved in the shit
779HKim - 11/27/2017
780You could say hi to Weir and see if he responds.
781Elysia - 11/27/2017
782and admittedly smiles and I probably had it worse with the emotional fallout/being disliked, for many reasons that I don't pretend to understand
783âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
784I'm happy to try and talk to him
785Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
786Yes but if hes going to direct it towards somelike dp, and give a pass to Nitro for whatever reason
787Thats ridiculous
788Liam - 11/27/2017
789is there a way to see if someone has blocked you, other than messaging them and waiting for a reply?
790Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
791No idea
792âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
793Yes
794Find a message they posted
795Try to add a reaction
796If it fails, they blocked you
797(It may take a few seconds)
798Liam - 11/27/2017
799he did not ban me then
800er
801block
802Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
803Yeah, so I dont know what he's looking to achieve
804Liam - 11/27/2017
805he also never took me out of urpgtimes unlike ely
806HKim - 11/27/2017
807This is why, to me, Weir isn't the Littlefinger of the URPG.
808Liam - 11/27/2017
809no he's just a little shit
810Elysia - 11/27/2017
811okay so I talked with DP
812she wanted this version of the message passed on
813âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
814What do you mean by that, HKim?
815Elysia - 11/27/2017
816"Anyway, as much as I've shit on Weir recently, he did help make my overall experience in URPG pretty fun, except two nights ago he messaged me saying "I gotta hit you up with something important tomorrow, talk to you then!" all cheery, and then yesterday morning I woke up to a message that was basically an ultimatum. "I'm blocking everyone associated with SB. I've already blocked the creators and sorry but I have to block you and [another user] too, wanted to let you guys know in advance."
817
818He said he's torn about what happened and so is K'sa, and he can't be friends with "someone who thinks what Elysia does is okay" (his words, not mine). So... my reaction was to roll my eyes and talk him down because obviously it was stupid, I wasn't going to be involved with section divisiveness nor was I going to let him try to change my opinion of you, it was super disheartening to hear that me/[others] are being judged just for being most active in your/Smiles's sections, etc etc. He agreed he was stupid and we moved on."(edited)
819Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
820So that seems to end with not getting blocked
821But it was still enough to make her leave
822HKim - 11/27/2017
823Hmmm
824Well, does that justify a ban still?
825Liam - 11/27/2017
826the intent and the issue of DP feeling too uncomfortable to stay within the server didn't change(edited)
827I'm still okay if we do a long temp ban and all his responsible titles revoked if not a perma ban
828Smiles - 11/27/2017
829^ same with Liam
830Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
831Id really like to, but thats not the feel I get from dp's revised paragraph
832Its pretty key that she ended it with "He agreed he was stupid and we moved on"
833Which means that they resolved it themselves
834As such
835I'm actually coming back around to Harry's point about it being the knowledge of the whole behind-the-scenes conflict that has made her uncomfortable, though it is his fault for bringing it to the surface so directly
836Liam - 11/27/2017
837I honestly don't believe that last part
838the "He agreed he was stupid and we moved on"
839because they didn't move on
840she left the server
841Elysia - 11/27/2017
842yeah, sorry, no, she's a mod for a fairly active BMG community and she's had her share of stupid drama and conflict
843but "be friends with them and I might block you/you will no longer be in my good books" is a tier above the rest
844Liam - 11/27/2017
845I'm not sure, but she maybe trying to reword things so he doesn't get banned 'cause she has a soft spot for him
846Elysia - 11/27/2017
847this situation ended with her leaving the server and not wanting to come back; liam's right in that this is not "we moved on"
848she quit and tried to keep it a secret to minimize drama here
849but that doesn't mean that weir's actions are excusable under some fuzzy blanket of drama
850âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
851Is it possible that there are other things going on with her and this is just the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, rather than the single event that caused it alone?
852Liam - 11/27/2017
853possibly and it'd be good to know, but this wasn't just a straw
854this was a whole barrel of hay
855Elysia - 11/27/2017
856I would look at her activity up until 2 days ago; I see nothing indicating that she wanted to quit
857she even snagged stories from dash to grade
858Liam - 11/27/2017
859a friend and essential boss coming to you essentially giving you an ultimatum on blocking you due to the people you're associated with is heavy and not something we should lighten the load with because of outside drama, etc
860HKim - 11/27/2017
861Has Weir done anything else other than this whole mess recently?
862Elysia - 11/27/2017
863I'm like 95% certain he intentionally kicked me from urpg times and hoped I wouldn't notice
864I ended up asking him about it politely/in the context of "hey can I do SOTM this month I can't see the channel", and he said he'd given the job to felly
865so I pointed out that there was other story stuff I wanted to put in times and he let me back n and pretended it was chill
866and on top of that, all the things you can't really track
867HKim - 11/27/2017
868Hmmmm, nothing really concrete then.
869Elysia - 11/27/2017
870he's toxic and people who he dislikes have a nasty habit of getting thrown under the bandwagon
871I again point to the fact that we all realized we couldn't have this conversation in our own staff chat
872yes, there's no concrete evidence where he DM's someone else and says "hey watch this I'm gonna make all of ely's friends quit or hate her", but that's par the course when dealing with toxic behavior
873HKim - 11/27/2017
874Eh, I think we could have.  The fallout would have been the same.
875Liam - 11/27/2017
876could have been worse; imagine dating someone and having to either talk about or read about staff potentially banning them
877now imagine you get as hotheaded as sari does when faced with these things
878Elysia - 11/27/2017
879I mean, if you want actual evidence for how he misconstrues staff and staff opinions
880Liam - 11/27/2017
881it probably wouldn't have boded well
882Elysia - 11/27/2017
883he tells people that he got audited and forced to restart for "a small sum of URPG money"(edited)
884and they believe that
885the meme that mene had was that it was for like 50k
886inconveniently I was removed from the chat where that went down, but he's very adept at painting himself in a positive light and shifting blame
887I don't know what kind of concrete evidence you want, harry
888Smiles - 11/27/2017
889I think the fact that everyone in here can attest to his toxic habits is evidence enough
890HKim - 11/27/2017
891Sure, but based on what dp said
892Probably not enough for a perm ban
893Elysia - 11/27/2017
894did you ever get pidge to confess directly to what he did, or was there overwhelming evidence that it was undeniably him when you banned him
895or was he never banned for allegedly trying to split the community with his actions
896HKim - 11/27/2017
897I never banned him.
898Elysia - 11/27/2017
899if he hadn't gotten the message, would you have banned him?
900HKim - 11/27/2017
901Probably.
902Dread God | Monbrey - 11/27/2017
903For the record I didn't make this just to avoid Sari
904I think this is sensitive enough not to involve Officials
905Pidge was asked to retire
906And he did
907Elysia - 11/27/2017
908I guess I fail to see the difference betwen being asked to leave and then being banned if he didn't listen and a ban
909except in the first case we actually expected him to behave more maturely and respectfully than we're forecasting weir to
910âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
911As I understand it, he was asked to retire from Staff.  He's technically allowed to still participate as a normal member, such as his LD battles and Champion battle after that point.
912(If memory serves, he wasn't even LD when that whole thing went down, he retook LD after that point)
913If Pidge posted tomorrow asking to be added to Discord, I don't believe we actually would have valid reason to say no.  I'm almost certain he has no intention of ever returning, but it is a noticable difference regardless of his future plans.
914Elysia - 11/27/2017
915fair
916I guess just
917I'm aware that everything I say at this point is being taken with a grain of salt because of how I'm in the middle of most of this shit -- I was responsible for most of the SB fallout, DP is my friend, and I'm the one who ran the numbers on weir the first time for his audit
918but most of the mods in here have attested to weir's shitty behavior
919âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
920I'm actually not so sure about that
921Elysia - 11/27/2017
922Nitro - Yesterday at 8:07 PM
923He otherwise strikes me as someone who would be weaselly and deny everything(edited)
924Liam - Yesterday at 11:33 PM
925the intent and the issue of DP feeling too uncomfortable to stay within the server didn't change(edited)
926I'm still okay if we do a long temp ban and all his responsible titles revoked if not a perma ban
927Soulmaster - Yesterday at 9:07 PM
928But we know something is wrong, it's just we can't give specifics most of the time
929dr. frownies | smiles - Yesterday at 9:34 PM
930This is immense drama and a way to tear apart the community started by one person, I'm not even sure why we would privilege his perspective at this time
931âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
932Huh, I guess so.  I thought it was a lot being said but not a lot of people saying it
933Elysia - 11/27/2017
934yeah I just ran searches by individual members in this chat
935I know I tend to dominate conversation sometimes
936âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/27/2017
937I was just starting to do that but you beat me to it
938Liam - 11/27/2017
939Yea I don’t think I see anything less than a long temp ban for weir after this
940HKim - 11/27/2017
941Well I'm fine with a punishment, but it would probably be light.
942Based on the info we have.
943from dp
944November 28, 2017
945HKim - 11/28/2017
946well can someone talk to him so we get something oging
947âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
948If you want the less hostile discussion, I probably can, though I imagine it wouldn't be until the evening as he's offline now and I have to go back to school sometime before my class
949HKim - 11/28/2017
950That's fine.
951HKim - 11/28/2017
952It can't hurt to get more information.
953Nitro - 11/28/2017
954Sorry, passed out at 10pm, hadnt slept much the night before
955It appears I’m not blocked by Weir(edited)
956For whatever reason, I got a hugely better shake of it than Ely and Smiles, but I’m not going to pretend to know what he’s actually thinking
957Anyway I’m going to backread, but let me know if there are any opinions or action I can offer
958Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
959So DP being uncomfortable in the server is definitely triggered by Weir's behaviour but I agree with Harry that's it's also due to underlying hostilities 
960
961I'd like to establish if he did make that threat to anybody else, or if it stopped after talking to DP when he "agreed he was being stupid"
962
963Either way, I think it's seriously unprofessional behaviour for someone with a leadership role (chief judge) and I see it as bullying. If you want to block someone, block. Making a point of telling them that's it's because of their friendship/association with someone else is, to me, just looking to create/worsen the divide.
964Smiles - 11/28/2017
965@âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. as a heads up, he's going to apologize at some point just to end the conversation / pretend that he's sorry for grave wrongdoing. That's also been a repeated pattern we've seen for him, and it's ended with more slaps on the wrists that I think in the past should have been actual punishments
966I agree with Liam here: Liam - Yesterday at 11:33 PM
967the intent and the issue of DP feeling too uncomfortable to stay within the server didn't change(edited)
968I'm still okay if we do a long temp ban and all his responsible titles revoked if not a perma ban
969he's proven from his actions that this is not someone who should be in a leadership or community role
970Soulmaster - 11/28/2017
971leadership role not gonna lie, thought we had figured out basically after the whole audit issue, but there's nothing we can do to stop the community role other than a ban
972Nitro - 11/28/2017
973I'm conscious of possibly undermining Ash and the contest section here, but I was pretty skeptical of his promotion -- this is the farthest thing from responsible leadership on Weir's part(edited)
974Like, while I recognize that this came out of a wrong on our part that led to that tension, you can't respond to that with backdoor politics
975And then I think this is true of K'sa too, because even if we did her dirty and some of the backlash on her part was reasonable, the way we've "resolved" Park and Onmyo seems pretty clearly to me not the best decision for URPG
976Not completely sure of how to handle the sections now, though if we could pull off the original plan of replacing Park, I think it's a pretty defensible decision even after all of the drama because most of everyone can see that they overlap(edited)
977Elysia - 11/28/2017
978k'sa is firmly against
979Nitro - 11/28/2017
980But on the point of Weir, I think removal of roles is the responsible decision and a temp ban to be completely fair too
981Elysia - 11/28/2017
982as of last friday
983[12:41 PM] Elysia: hey
984[12:42 PM] Elysia: I have a proposal
985[12:42 PM] Elysia: (I also don't have any of this written out beforehand and it's coming out very slowly)
986[12:42 PM] Elysia: there is no pressure to accept anything
987[12:43 PM] Elysia: but I think URPG would benefit from having a unified Park and SB, basically for all the reasons outlined in the TC post and under the general concept that this is what SB was for
988[12:44 PM] Elysia: with your consent, I will give full creative control of whatever stage SB is in to anyone in the SB team and they will work with you and mistral to make SB into a proper park revamp
989[12:44 PM] Elysia: I imagine at this point you would like to work best with nitro, and he agreed to this if it was what you wanted
990[12:45 PM] Elysia: I would only be involved in the development of this revamp as much as you and mistral wanted, which could be nothing at all
991[12:46 PM] Elysia: that's the whole proposal
992[12:54 PM] K'sariya: Just letting you know that I've read this, but naturally Felly and I will have to talk it over. Personally, though, before even that--are you absolutely sure? I know it's something you'd have to have thought out to say, but just wanting to ask because it's not something we expected, nor even exactly wanted, and I just wanted to make sure.
993[12:55 PM] Elysia: it's the best course of action for URPG as a whole and putting Nitro in charge of it appears to be the only way for it to happen
994[12:56 PM] Elysia: I’ve put a fair amount of thought into it and I’m sure
995[1:22 PM] K'sariya: Cool. So Felly and I have decided that we want to see what we can do with Park independently before we turn to any parts of SB's concept/ideas. We  want to have the opportunity to see what we can do with it. If we begin to feel like the ideas that we have for the Park are not working like we want them to, we can definitely turn to the SB team on what might be implemented from its ideas and how.
996[1:43 PM] Elysia: I think SB will launch on invitational as SB if there is no merger
997[1:43 PM] Elysia: And if that is the case, I think it’ll be a point of no return for both sections
998[1:44 PM] Elysia: There’s still two weeks for your ideas to take fruition if that is your concern
999[1:56 PM] K'sariya: Then that's alright, we've been okay with that scenario. We think it's too early to decide that a merge is the only healthy option for URPG, just as two weeks is too soon to not only make changes but also to even be able to begin see their effects. We still want to have a chance to make Park changes that would bring it up to date, and two weeks during a busy holiday, school, and Invitational season is not a viable timeframe for that. We do not want to rush important decisions in the Park due to having to do so in a short timeframe.
1000[2:12 PM] Elysia: Okay, sounds good
1001(this was from 11/17)
1002Nitro - 11/28/2017
1003It's not the worst decision to give them a chance to innovate, but there's gotta be some point, before the no return point, where I think we would just have to override them
1004If, like, we all agree that Park as is can't really coexist with Onmyo
1005Park's leaders obviously should be in the convo but they either don't or shouldn't have the final say on whether or not their section merges(edited)
1006Nitro - 11/28/2017
1007That's a pretty fragmented way of looking at URPG's sections *if we just let every section do their own thing(edited)
1008Liam - 11/28/2017
1009Yea I wanted to say this all last night, but was unsure how to without it sounding awkward/out of nowhere, but I don't mean to step on toes when I say I don't think weir should be chief judge anymore; I honestly cannot trust him currently to hold a position of power and responsibility, especially since DP is a fellow judge(edited)
1010I'm all for him not having those responsibilities which includes URPG Times and Contest Bosses
1011(this does mean that someone either picks up the Times, or it just dies again)
1012as well as a temp ban; I'd prefer 2 months minimum, 6 months max
1013something that sends the message clearly that this behavior is not tolerated
1014I also can appreciate the attempt to merge Onmyo/Park via Ely, but I don't particularly like Sari's "We'll go with plan A and take this as plan B" sentiment when that plan B is going to be implemented either way (which she seemed to understand, but...)
1015if Onmyo gets implemented, and Park doesn't turn around like they'd want it to, they really shouldn't be able to say "okay, this failed, time to merge with Onmyo and head that", which I don't think is something they imagine a possibility, but just want to be clear that it wouldn't happen like that because that would seriously undermine everything ely/nitro put into it
1016Smiles - 11/28/2017
1017^^^^^^^^^^^
1018âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1019According to our own punishment guidelines, major offenses (if that's what this is) have "warnings; possibility of 1 week chat ban, money penalties".  Two to six months is way above that and I do think that's excessive.  I also think we should at least give him a chance to talk before deciding his fate.  I haven't seen him on since being given the go-ahead to talk to him about it.
1020Nitro - 11/28/2017
1021I think this qualifies as severe major (harassment to the point of forcing someone to leave) which can be considered critical(edited)
1022did also look it up earlier
1023but I'm sure a chat would be helpful for determining specific punishment
1024âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1025I disagree that it's quite like that.  From the sound of it, she left because she realized there was something else going on (the rift between certain parts of the population) that has been going on for a while and not just something Weir is responsible for.  Yes, it was what he said that made her realize this existed, but I wouldn't put all the blame for this on him.  Yes, what he said was out of line.
1026So right now, "harassment" sounds like a reasonable claim, but I'm not sure I agree with "severe harassment"
1027Liam - 11/28/2017
1028I would consider this severe; it's not like this is many-th time he's done this, nor something of worse maliciousness quality, but it is malicious, it is awful, and in my opinion, severe
1029Elysia - 11/28/2017
1030he also kicked me from the URPG times for no reason with no warning or discussion
1031he let me in after I politely implied that I could see through his shit/audit logs made it very clear that permissions were removed(edited)
1032but that doesn't excuse the fact that he's using these positions of power to create cliques and divides
1033Liam - 11/28/2017
1034the rift that was felt honestly is not the main issue; it's the centralizing issue, it's the issue he's capitalized on, but the true problem is what we did
1035I don't think constantly pointing to the divide the community felt between Onmyo/Park should lessen what he did
1036issues happen and people understand disagreements, but literately taking advantage of those issues to further your agenda to create a toxic community toward certain members should not be clouded by overarching issues
1037Elysia - 11/28/2017
1038he is also the one creating this divide that he's using to excuse his actions
1039someone implied that k'sa is behind weir's actions; I think it's the exact opposite(edited)
1040Nitro - 11/28/2017
1041Yeah, I don't think you can really extract Weir from that rift
1042As a larger context, it's not all him, but a lot of it is him
1043Even if we pull back from looking at Onmyo/Park, this pattern has existed for a while, maybe not in ways that we always chose to act on (though we tried at least once with that meeting) but we were definitely conscious of it(edited)
1044âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1045I'm talking to him now, trying not to let on that I actually know anything about what's going on
1046Ash K. - Today at 12:27 PM
1047Do you mind if I ask you a random question?
1048Brock - Today at 12:28 PM
1049Of course not my dude
1050Ash K. - Today at 12:28 PM
1051What are your thoughts on Elysia?
1052Brock - Today at 12:28 PM
1053I hate her more than anyone in URPG
1054Followed closely by Smiles
1055She's a sarcastic, caustic, toxic snake
1056Who only does anything for either her benefit, Smiles's benefit, or just to be toxic
1057:')
1058Betcha didn't expect that answer!
1059Ash K. - Today at 12:30 PM
1060That does seem a bit extreme
1061Brock - Today at 12:31 PM
1062Nah dude she talks shit about me all the time
1063Puts me down, etc
1064Ash K. - Today at 12:31 PM
1065(I'm not saying it's wrong, just extreme)
1066Brock - Today at 12:31 PM
1067We have this gaming server
1068And people talk URPG too
1069And holy shit
1070All she does is be toxic
1071People are talking? Let me throw some salt and pretend "I'm sorry for being toxic"
1072Ash K. - Today at 12:32 PM
1073I think I've heard a bit about this server second hand
1074Brock - Today at 12:32 PM
1075Yeah, I mean
1076It's the server Monbrey complains about
1077Regardless
1078I've disliked her for a long ass time, but when I found out she still, to this day, publicly shits on me in Staff chat I gave up trying to give her any benefit of the doubt
1079Ash K. - Today at 12:34 PM
1080Yeah, I can't say I blame you for that
1081Brock - Today at 12:35 PM
1082I'm fine with her hating me and me hatin her, I can still be civil
1083Why'd you ask btw?
1084Ash K. - Today at 12:37 PM
1085Trying to get a bit of perspective on some things that have been happening lately
1086Is it just her and Smiles that have been an issue?
1087Brock - Today at 12:37 PM
1088Ahhhhh SB?
1089Yeah, Nitro and I are friends, and while I know Liam thinks a little ill of me I consider him a friend anyways
1090And DP is one of my best friends
1091Ash K. - Today at 12:39 PM
1092I noticed DP left the server recently, any idea if that's related to this?
1093Brock - Today at 12:39 PM
1094It is
1095Here I'll grab you a screenie
1096Wait
1097Wrong one
1098[Screenshot here, see below]
1099Ash K. - Today at 12:44 PM
1100Any idea if this was a sudden thing for her or it had been building for a while?
1101Brock - Today at 12:44 PM
1102So uh
1103Ralin DP and I had a talk
1104Cuz I'm taking a firm boycott against SB
1105And she left shortly after
1106Ash K. - Today at 12:45 PM
1107Did something happen? :frowning:
1108Brock - Today at 12:47 PM
1109I mean, same as the screenie; she felt everyone was brooding and a buncha negative energy, and the chat kinda reinforced that, though it let us stay friends
1110
1111That's what's happened so far
1112Elysia - 11/28/2017
1113well
1114I no longer reasonably expect myself to be civil in this conversation but I will try(edited)
1115âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1116(Sorry about the way I did that, but I felt like it was the best way to get an honest response)
1117Elysia - 11/28/2017
1118no, that was eye-opening and blunt
1119the incident he's referring to where I salted him and said sorry for the salt
1120I no longer have logs because I left the server
1121but basically gray was bitching that we should've banned julio a long time ago and staff plays favorites
1122I told him that staff no longer does bans based on personal preference and there's categorization of offences etc etc
1123and regardless of his personal feelings on things, I have tried to keep a fair and unbiased opinion on things, and some of the people he hates most of all were behind the push to keep personal opinions of staff out of individual member assessment(edited)
1124then I had to go to class so I tossed in a "lol sorry for the salt"
1125this led to gray making violent threats on my well being in voice chat
1126which I didn't feel the need to report at the time because they aren't in URPG server and I don't think people's actions there should affect their standing here
1127I'm going to be frank
1128at this point I am chained to this ship and I know that expressing any desire to quit will be seen more as an attempt to spite weir than the fact that the past month has been emotionally draining, and I have too much stuff hinging on me for any exit to be clean(edited)
1129and that for whatever reason I have been voicing these opinions that weir has personal shit against me and has taken it as an excuse to ruin everything I stand for, and those opinions have largely been ignored
1130but I'm fucking exhausted with this high school drama bullshit
1131âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1132I 100% agree with that last line
1133Elysia - 11/28/2017
1134Brock - Today at 12:32 PM
1135Yeah, I mean
1136It's the server Monbrey complains about
1137Regardless
1138I've disliked her for a long ass time, but when I found out she still, to this day, publicly shits on me in Staff chat I gave up trying to give her any benefit of the doubt
1139Ash K. - Today at 12:34 PM
1140Yeah, I can't say I blame you for that
1141what is even remotely his justification for this
1142I don't give a fuck if k'sa leaked to him; I want to know what he thinks I said that constitutes as shitting
1143Elysia - 11/28/2017
1144the last time I even mentioned him in staff that I can see was me explaining why we couldn't ban weir for being salty because there was no evidence
1145I know nitro erased some stuff during promotions but I don't know where any of this is coming from
1146to the extent that he is boycotting my sections and trying to force others to do the same
1147âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1148To be fair, I've noticed that staff as a whole in certain discussions can be a bit skewed about certain members.  I don't remember any examples off-hand, but it has felt like that at least.
1149Elysia - 11/28/2017
1150[1:00 AM] adamantine | elysia: I dunno
1151[1:00 AM] adamantine | elysia: I've been skimming t-c and contest since uh
1152[1:00 AM] adamantine | elysia: fuck it's been a long time
1153[1:00 AM] adamantine | elysia: gray asked me to bring down a hammer on liam like two hours ago
1154[1:01 AM] adamantine | elysia: nothing gray said was over the line
1155[1:01 AM] NItro | socialist keldeo: i never actually checked that out
1156[1:01 AM] adamantine | elysia: same with weir
1157[1:01 AM] NItro | socialist keldeo: it's the pattern of these things
1158[1:01 AM] NItro | socialist keldeo: the baiting goes all the way back to julio
1159[1:01 AM] adamantine | elysia: yeah but you said it yourself lol
1160[1:01 AM] Liam: nothing he said was over the line
1161[1:01 AM] adamantine | elysia: we can't ban for things that they don't say explicitly
1162[1:01 AM] Liam: but DP went over the line a bit
1163[1:01 AM] NItro | socialist keldeo: enough of the borderline comments does it for me imo
1164[1:01 AM] Liam: albeit my comments were not helping
1165[1:02 AM] NItro | socialist keldeo: like, I believe at this point that you're acting maliciously
1166[1:02 AM] NItro | socialist keldeo: you as in them
1167[1:02 AM] adamantine | elysia: but none of their borderline comments were any less factual or more borderline than shit we've said
1168[1:02 AM] adamantine | elysia: is my point
1169[1:02 AM] adamantine | elysia: but none of their borderline comments were any less factual or more borderline than shit we've said
1170I have tried to hold ourselves to the same standard to which I hold other people
1171sometimes I bring up uncomfortable truths like the fact that weir's extensive use of 6v6's for his legend before trying to get them nerfed was silly, or the fact that he never explained why he felt the need or ability to cheat 1.7M from this game(edited)
1172if this is a deeper conversation about how I have failed my duties as a moderator, I invite that at this time
1173But if you substituted "elysia" with any other user of the community in weir's statement, I would guarantee that this would be grounds for concern
1174Elysia pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.11/28/2017
1175Smiles - 11/28/2017
1176Brock - Today at 12:28 PM
1177I hate her more than anyone in URPG
1178Followed closely by Smiles
1179She's a sarcastic, caustic, toxic snake
1180Who only does anything for either her benefit, Smiles's benefit, or just to be toxic
1181:')
1182Betcha didn't expect that answer!
1183Elysia - 11/28/2017
1184he has never once brought this sentiment to my attention in 8 months of DM's
1185and instead saw the most productive venue of venting this frustration to be to boycott entire creative sections and force people to choose sides
1186âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1187To be fair, something like this may be a bit difficult to try and bring up directly.  If I was feeling the way, the last thing I'd feel capable of doing is DMing someone "Oh by the way, I hate you more than anyone else"
1188Elysia - 11/28/2017
1189so this justifies the rest of his behavior?
1190âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1191I'm not saying that
1192I'm just saying I understand why he wouldn't have brought it directly to you
1193Elysia - 11/28/2017
1194unless I'm unaware, he didn't bring it to any of staff
1195and instead spread it around the community to actively ruin my relationships with people
1196Brock - 10/17/2017
1197Ely said
1198"Convenient for you to be at 81% on your legend tracker before bringing this up"
1199and this, this is the reason I dislike Ely more than Julio
1200dp876 - 10/17/2017
1201Thats a pretty low bar
1202Brock - 10/17/2017
1203what
1204dp876 - 10/17/2017
1205Didnt think anyone on urpg could be disliked more than julio
1206Brock - 10/17/2017
1207legit
1208I hate how she operates
1209at least with julio there's likeable sides
1210but right as you think you can like Ely
1211she says some salty unnecessary shit like this
1212obviously this is 100% my opinion
1213which is extremely hard to have when your girlfriend for the most part is best friends with her
1214whatever
1215this outdates SB
1216this outdates anything I think I have reasonably done to wrong K'sa, Felly, Weir, or anyone
1217DP is one of my oldest online friends
1218he has been trying to pick apart anyone who has ties to me and this behavior is dated back to at least a month and a half
1219I do not understand how this is excusable behavior
1220âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1221DP is where this gets a bit weird.  I'm always skeptical of hearing only one side of a story, so I'd like to hear exactly what happened from his point of view, but I'm not sure how to get more into it without letting on I've already heard it from her (indirectly)
1222Nitro - 11/28/2017
1223It's not a useless perspective to hear, but there isn't really much benefit of doubt that exists here
1224Liam - 11/28/2017
1225So like, I've had my fair share of spats with ely, she can attest to that I'm sure, and while I didn't like the way she phrased some things, she wasn't wrong either; the main difference though, was that I was in the wrong and accepted that and then worked forward to move on instead of shitting on ely and trying to dismember her creations and ostracize her from the community
1226not to pretend I'm saint-like, but there is clearly a better course of action than this behavior
1227âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1228What he said about what happened sounds so drastically different from what she said that I'm not sure I 100% trust either one right now.  I always expect to find the truth somewhere in between the two perspectives.
1229Nitro - 11/28/2017
1230Benefit of the doubt is how he's gotten away with things, and there's more than enough of a pattern to suggest that's he used it up(edited)
1231Liam - 11/28/2017
1232Ash, I honestly don't know how you're up in the air about this currently
1233Nitro - 11/28/2017
1234Like I said, he's the deny-deny-deny type
1235I've seen this in the past and defended him because of it, but I'm out of reason to defend him
1236Liam - 11/28/2017
1237even if DP edited the convo on what was c/p'd for whatever reason, he clearly has ill wishes and is taking it out in all the wrong ways
1238Smiles - 11/28/2017
1239Brock - Today at 12:28 PM
1240I hate her more than anyone in URPG
1241Followed closely by Smiles
1242She's a sarcastic, caustic, toxic snake
1243Who only does anything for either her benefit, Smiles's benefit, or just to be toxic
1244:')
1245Betcha didn't expect that answer! - these are the words from someone who expects no repercussions for his vitriol and for his toxic nature - we need to do something about this
1246Nitro - 11/28/2017
1247We're well past the point where enough is enough
1248Smiles - 11/28/2017
1249I haven't done anything to him, and I can also send in my chat log with him where he's said nothing indicating that he would hate me this much
1250to be honest, I don't feel safe in this community with him here
1251Nitro - 11/28/2017
1252Yeah, I was operating on little sleep last night when I ranted but I'd pinpoint Weir as the reason that I don't trust many people in the community right now
1253âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1254Of all the things he's said and done, I really don't feel like having an opinion of someone is grounds for punishment.  Yes, some of the actions he's taken based on them are not okay, but everyone is allowed to have whatever opinion they like.
1255Liam - 11/28/2017
1256opinions are one thing
1257Smiles - 11/28/2017
1258Ash, this is how toxic attitude and ideology spreads - it's not always concrete. It's difficult to track. When the entire room agrees that someone is a threat to the community, they are a threat to the community
1259Liam - 11/28/2017
1260spreading them to spread toxic which made a member leave the server is another
1261
1262Nitro - 11/28/2017
1263There's no communication here, just more private talk for the sake of private talk
1264HKim - 11/28/2017
1265Eh, no different than Pidge and his cronies back in the day then.
1266Before he matured a bit.
1267Nitro - 11/28/2017
1268Those guys were awful as well
1269I guess it doesn't have to be a comparison
1270HKim - 11/28/2017
1271Indeed.
1272I'd like more context, of course.
1273Like Monbrey said, has Weir said this to anyoen else?
1274Or did it stop after the convo with dp?
1275Nitro - 11/28/2017
1276Looks like Ralin was drawn in
1277I think it's safe to connect this with the larger pattern of staff/community tensions as well
1278HKim - 11/28/2017
1279Well based on the convos we're posting, I'm seeing the tension being the bigger problem.
1280Nitro - 11/28/2017
1281There was more benefit of the doubt then, but we did attribute some/much of that to Weir
1282Yeah, I'd agree
1283So then all of that that we've discussed over the last few months becomes part of the context too
1284Which, I'll fully admit to being on the other side of it in the past
1285HKim - 11/28/2017
1286You did cause us a lot of headaches.
1287Nitro - 11/28/2017
1288Still do haha, just trying to keep it real
1289HKim - 11/28/2017
1290Liam is organizing the meeting to help address tensions, but I'm beginning to think we need to also talk with those outside the meeting.
1291One-on-one on a more personal basis.
1292Specifically key players that have had vocal opinions on the whole thing
1293And try to bring them around to the idea that the Park and SB can coexist side by side.
1294And that there need not be sides.
1295Nitro - 11/28/2017
1296Is that a firm thing? I thought the merger was back on the table
1297HKim - 11/28/2017
1298No, only if K'sa and Felly resign.
1299In which case there isn't any  leadership we can fall back on in that area.
1300But that's a whole different discussion.
1301If we want, we can lay out that Park will have a chance so long as K'sa and Felly are around.
1302Nitro - 11/28/2017
1303Yeah, I think this came up a little bit earleir
1304HKim - 11/28/2017
1305As a sort of.... insurance if you're worried they'll attack us for bein hypocrites if it doesn't work out.
1306Nitro - 11/28/2017
1307I personally don't believe Park and SB can coexist cleanly alongside each other
1308But I think it's fair to give them a chance to innovate within their section
1309HKim - 11/28/2017
1310While you may not believe that, Nitro, removing one or the other will result in members and leaders leaving.
1311Nitro - 11/28/2017
1312To break the nittygritty conflicts
1313[10:58 AM] Nitro | socialist keldeo: It's not the worst decision to give them a chance to innovate, but there's gotta be some point, before the no return point, where I think we would just have to override them
1314[10:59 AM] Nitro | socialist keldeo: If, like, we all agree that Park as is can't really coexist with Onmyo
1315[10:59 AM] Nitro | socialist keldeo: Park's leaders obviously should be in the convo but they either don't or shouldn't have the final say on whether or not their section merges(edited)
1316[11:00 AM] Nitro | socialist keldeo: That's a pretty fragmented way of looking at URPG's sections *if we just let every section do their own thing
1317HKim - 11/28/2017
1318We must be optimistic it'll work out and pragmatic in our decision to allow them to try.
1319Nitro - 11/28/2017
1320They're part of the leadership group, and I think part of leadership means they have to recognize what's best for URPG
1321HKim - 11/28/2017
1322I disagree with you that merging them is what's best for the URPG at the moment.
1323Nitro - 11/28/2017
1324Potential overlap between sections that could exist within the two long-term is worse than members leaving, though both are bad(edited)
1325HKim - 11/28/2017
1326I think members leaving is worse than overlap.
1327To simplify my thoughts.
1328Nitro - 11/28/2017
1329Hmm
1330If it's the right decision, there has to be a way to communicate and defend that decision
1331My intention is not to do K'sa or Felly unjustly (any more than already done)
1332Liam - 11/28/2017
1333I agree merging them would have been the best for URPG and the best for Park, but Felly and Sari made their choice
1334HKim - 11/28/2017
1335We have to deal with the realities now, not the realities of the past.
1336Liam - 11/28/2017
1337but that shouldn't be our ultimate goal anymore
1338Nitro - 11/28/2017
1339But I think if we (all agree and) explain the reasoning, then it's part of their responsibility as leaders to accept it
1340Like, the Park and SB fit can't be a question for just Park heads or just SB heads, it has to be one for URPG's leadership at large
1341Those overlaps are small but as a question, they're larger than any section politics
1342Liam - 11/28/2017
1343I think we can hold off on that until (and if) park gets to a point where there is nothing or not much going for it (which honestly was the state it was in previously, i.e. the reason Onmyo was created)
1344Nitro - 11/28/2017
1345That's the way I see it, at least
1346HKim - 11/28/2017
1347We'd only invite disaster by eliminating one of them now.
1348Nitro - 11/28/2017
1349And I recognize I'm being at least a little combative about it lol
1350HKim - 11/28/2017
1351A little?
1352Nitro - 11/28/2017
1353Sorry
1354HKim - 11/28/2017
1355lol, no worries.
1356Liam - 11/28/2017
1357but I do think, one of the things we should bring up in the following meeting with them, is the fact that they are leaders and they must be proactive in voicing that they are okay with Onmyo and that there are no hard feelings nor a rift
1358and be convincing about it
1359idc if it's telling them what to think/say
1360that's the responsibility of being the leaders
1361HKim - 11/28/2017
1362We'd have to word it better than how you said it.
1363Liam - 11/28/2017
1364well yea
1365Nitro - 11/28/2017
1366If they can't be convinced to believe it
1367they at least have to be convinced to talk about it directly with us
1368ducking the conversation and letting the hate fester has gotten us where we are
1369Liam - 11/28/2017
1370but the point is they need to be more vocal about it, because without that, people will continue to think there's a rift and what weir did and how DP feels will continue
1371HKim - 11/28/2017
1372It's a little outside of that now though
1373Liam - 11/28/2017
1374they can work on it
1375HKim - 11/28/2017
1376We need the one-on-one convos outside of the official leadership now.
1377No, I thjink staff needs to adress it
1378Liam - 11/28/2017
1379it would help heal the wound
1380yes
1381staff, including park staff
1382HKim - 11/28/2017
1383We need a list of the most vocal members about the project on both sides.
1384The ones people listen to.
1385Remove anyone that's on staff.
1386Liam - 11/28/2017
1387weir, gray, magik, julio, DP, ralin
1388HKim - 11/28/2017
1389I mean.... do peopel really listen to julio?
1390Liam - 11/28/2017
1391those have been the people who've spoken up in the threads who were not staff
1392Nitro - 11/28/2017
1393Not sure if I would include Julio
1394Oh yeah the threads
1395Liam - 11/28/2017
1396idk if people really listen to magik either
1397HKim - 11/28/2017
1398Yeah, that's fair.
1399He's more reasonable than some of the other sthough.
1400Liam - 11/28/2017
1401magik?
1402Nitro - 11/28/2017
1403Magik is awful
1404HKim - 11/28/2017
1405Easier to talk with than gray, Julio.
1406Nitro - 11/28/2017
1407He hides it under nice language
1408Liam - 11/28/2017
1409yea harry, Magik is full of shit
1410Nitro - 11/28/2017
1411But he's one of the least willing to bend
1412Liam - 11/28/2017
1413I find talking to julio much easier actually
1414HKim - 11/28/2017
1415Interesting
1416Nitro - 11/28/2017
1417Julio is the opposite
1418He's not good at being diplomatic with his words
1419HKim - 11/28/2017
1420Maybe it's a matter of who's doing the talking.
1421Nitro - 11/28/2017
1422But he's reasonable and speaks his mind, which is refreshing
1423Liam - 11/28/2017
1424you may not see that as much 'cause you're leader of URPG, so your interactions with magik have probably been him kissing ass and changing his mind to whatever you say
1425HKim - 11/28/2017
1426Hey if it that'll work..
1427I don't need him to believe it, just that he says he does.
1428publicly.
1429Nitro - 11/28/2017
1430I think the problem is this, actually
1431In the last meeting, we were more interested in diplomacy and image than actually having the ugly argument
1432In my personal experience, I've always preferred arguing it out over the short-term
1433HKim - 11/28/2017
1434That's why Liam's organizing the meeting to talk about feelings, NItro.
1435Nitro - 11/28/2017
1436And having everything resolved, or at least beaten out of everyone, long-term
1437Liam - 11/28/2017
1438same nits
1439Nitro - 11/28/2017
1440Unlike the last meeting
1441Smiles - 11/28/2017
1442I'm confused about what this meeting seeks to achieve that we don't already know
1443Nitro - 11/28/2017
1444We need to define where we stand with actual clarity
1445HKim - 11/28/2017
1446Everyone is hurt and no one wants to talk about it.
1447Nitro - 11/28/2017
1448And press them on it
1449Liam - 11/28/2017
1450yea, speaking of, I need to grab some of your schedules, which I'll do in a moment now I'm home and we're all waking up
1451Nitro - 11/28/2017
1452There was a little too much playing of both sides last time
1453This one needs to come with actual accusations
1454HKim - 11/28/2017
1455It was more of  a work meeting than a hasing out things meeting.
1456Smiles - 11/28/2017
1457Which parties? sb and park team?
1458HKim - 11/28/2017
1459Yeah, but that's only one part of the issue at this point.
1460Smiles - 11/28/2017
1461I thought the original issue was weir 's toxicity
1462Liam - 11/28/2017
1463yea, the last meeting sat weird with me because it was a lot of "hi, ohgoshthanks, cool beans, hunky dory"
1464HKim - 11/28/2017
1465We need to also address the non-leaders.
1466Liam - Today at 1:35 PM
1467weir, gray, magik, julio, DP, ralin
1468Nitro - 11/28/2017
1469Looks like this meeting has moved on from trying to research the issue with Weir
1470HKim - 11/28/2017
1471There are 3 aspects to this issue we need to address.
1472Nitro - 11/28/2017
1473And on to the actual content of his statements
1474HKim - 11/28/2017
14751.  The need for the leaders to hash things out emotionally.
1476Elysia - 11/28/2017
1477I may as well get this out in the open before anything further gets planned
1478https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.php?threads/adamantine.247354/
1479HKim - 11/28/2017
14802.  The need to address key non-leaders about the need for co-existence.
14813.  What to do about Weir.
1482Elysia - 11/28/2017
1483I'm sorry for being an arrogant shit and taking an entire thread to myself
1484HKim - 11/28/2017
1485We addressed the first one, and need to tackle 2 and 3.
1486Elysia - 11/28/2017
1487I've tied up affairs in stories and SB
1488nitro and smiles know how to contact me if you need anything else(edited)
1489Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1490WELL
14911) Ely come back
14922) dp come back
14933) Weir please leave or change your entire personality in the next 24 hours kthx
14944) Can Park and Onmyo co-exist after all this shit that has gone down keeping in mind it was Park's decision to go for co-exist rather than co-operate
1495Smiles - 11/28/2017
1496^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1497Nitro - 11/28/2017
1498;-; yes
1499Liam - 11/28/2017
15001: YES P A - L E A S E
15012. yes please
15023: I'm game with him fucking off
15034: if it's possible, I'm game
1504Nitro - 11/28/2017
1505The answer to 4 is also yes, but the reasons are all poor
1506Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1507I'd really like the opinions of some of the mods who arent really implicated in these sections, possibly @Soulmaster or @swiftgallade46 . @âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K.  too though Contests gets a bit messy with Weir
1508Nitro - 11/28/2017
1509lol
1510maybe reach out to Swift on forum, I'm not sure he's on discord, but I'd love to know what he's thinking as well
1511he's gonna see ely's post with zero context lol
1512Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1513Im trying to look at the justification for banning Weir objectively. On it's own, I don't think the DP issue is worth it. But its a symptom of the larger problem being that he attempts to rally people against individuals and to take sides - currently against Ely, previously against Julio. That can't be allowed to continue, and I dont see a way to prevent that besides a ban
1514Revoking all his leadership roles is one option, though I dont think that actually does anything to his ability to privately influence people
1515Soulmaster - 11/28/2017
1516I've said it from the beginning and the only thing that will get through his thick skull is a ban, and even then it's up in the air
1517
1518Liam - 11/28/2017
1519as well as we have to remember that he's suppose to be a chief judge who was about to block a fellow judge and active coordinator for petty shit
1520Soulmaster - 11/28/2017
1521Imo his leadership roles should be stripped immediately even if we take another day or so to make a ban decision, but honestly it seems like the only one truly against a ban is Harry
1522Liam - 11/28/2017
1523^ agreed
1524Smiles - 11/28/2017
1525also agreed!
1526Soulmaster - 11/28/2017
1527Also while there's merit in it, we need to stop treading carefully with Harry also. Yes this whole head thing means he is in charge, but sometimes all of a mod does mean more than 1 person sorry Harry but it's something I've noticed
1528HKim - 11/28/2017
1529Not all of the mods are in favor of a ban.  Ash said he wasn't.
1530And Soul, we do have to take into account bias at this point.
1531This isn't a straight up vote.  Opinions from those less involved, like yourself, weigh more than those who are deeply involved
1532Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1533Im not sure thats the right way to put it lol
1534HKim - 11/28/2017
1535You know what I mean.
1536Smiles - 11/28/2017
1537I really don't - can you say more about that?
1538Also if we're going off of biases, considering the judge relationship, Ash cannot be a purely objective party in this
1539HKim - 11/28/2017
1540I agree with you, Smiles.
1541Ash is also biased
1542Smiles - 11/28/2017
1543Objectively the most objective person in here, according to how we're doing this, is Soulmaster and he's already given his opinion
1544HKim - 11/28/2017
1545What I mean to say is that if we want to treat this fairly, with a mind towards justice.
1546Smiles - 11/28/2017
1547We've now had two incredibly important people and leaders in the community leave and I'm not sure why we're delaying this
1548HKim - 11/28/2017
1549We have to take into account that some of us might feel strongly one way or the other based on how involved we are with the situation.
1550And that might cloud perspectives or viewpoints.
1551While someone Like Soul can look at the whole picture without a....
1552investment in the situation other than the need to serve out what is right and just.
1553Nitro - 11/28/2017
1554Late but
1555Having a remarkably productive convo with Ralin
1556I’m mobile but will share when I can
1557I love this boy(edited)
1558HKim - 11/28/2017
1559And yes, part of the delay is because I had asked Nitro to speak with Ralin.
1560Smiles - 11/28/2017
1561golden son also just poked me!! amazing son
1562HKim - 11/28/2017
1563I want to hear what Ralin had to say.
1564Liam - 11/28/2017
1565I tend to pride myself on being able to make good judgements even while being biased, it's what makes me a damn good ER tech; I've pulled people out of cars who look dead because they overdosed on stolen fentanyl but worked my tired, overworked, underpaid ass to help save their life so I feel it a bit underhanded that even though some of us may be biased (and honestly that is the majority of us), our opinions shouldn't be casted aside; we were made mods for good reasons if I'm not to proud to say
1566❤2
1567HKim - 11/28/2017
1568I'm not saying your opinions don't matter, Liam, and I apologize if it came off that way.
1569Liam - 11/28/2017
1570I can understand waiting to hear from Ralin
1571HKim - 11/28/2017
1572There is a reason why I asked you to help organize the meeting.  Because even if you're on a "side"
1573Which I don't believe to be true.
1574You are able to be a leader that everyoen can and will listen to.
1575And one who will carry out his duty no matter what.
1576Smiles - 11/28/2017
1577the perfect son, everyone Ralin - Today at 6:24 PM
1578nono its totally fine
1579I figured you were hurting tbh and needed someone to talk to ;c
1580HKim - 11/28/2017
1581How soon would you be able to c/p Nitro?
1582Smiles - 11/28/2017
1583Ralin - Today at 6:29 PM
1584I know DP left due to the toxic behavior
1585I was in that convo with Weir and DP
1586Ely is now leaving because she is being deemed as a villain
1587And I personally am not a COMPLETE fan of how SB and its announcement and NP have been handled
1588but, it did not deserve this
1589whatsoever
1590everyone seems so worried about their pride, as I just said to Nitro
1591(he came ot talk to me about what happened, as staff)
1592(youre a moderator too so i assume its safe to be open to you about that)
1593Smiles - Today at 6:31 PM
1594Of course!! and I 100% agree with you - we really messed up on how we handled that with Park, and we tried to fix things, but at the end of the day we made our sins
1595Ralin - Today at 6:32 PM
1596nono its on both ends
1597and to be honest it doesnt matter to me who was wrong there,
1598because it happened and we cant change that
1599we have to like, work on recovering and figuring out where to go from there
1600Smiles - Today at 6:33 PM
1601I completely agree with you!
1602Ralin - Today at 6:33 PM
1603Because this pride thing needs to stop, it needs to be about bettering the game rather than yknow, this
1604Smiles - Today at 6:33 PM
1605absolutely agreed!! just trying to play the game(edited)
1606Ralin - Today at 6:33 PM
1607but I guess uh, Ely deciding she was leaving really really shocked me
1608Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1609Yeah this is why I hated seeing people like Ralin and DP dragged in
1610Genuinely innocent bystanders and no disrespect to Ely but that angers me even more
1611Smiles - 11/28/2017
1612I'm enraged - Ralin is the kindest, most supportive, balanced person I've met, years beyond my wisdom and to even incorporate him in all of this is beyond words
1613Nitro - 11/28/2017
1614Sorry I'm stopped at a friend's house to use his laptop
1615So I can only post the log and then I'll be mobile / slow to respond, but ping me on anything
1616Convo with Ralin https://pastebin.com/KZZiArBT
1617Pastebin
1618convo with ralin - Pastebin.com
1619
1620Nitro pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.11/28/2017
1621HKim - 11/28/2017
1622Thanks Nitro.
1623I'm reading it now.
1624Nitro - 11/28/2017
1625Takeaways include: 1) this convo happened
16262) Ralin wants to be neutral
16273) Weir's influence is negative, outright toxic, bullying
16284) From a neutral perspective, we (Ely/Smiles/I) are at blame as well, though I haven't tried to hide this
16295) Lots of sketchy indirect Gray influence
1630Disappearing now, please ping if I'm needed for anything
1631HKim - 11/28/2017
1632Ban weir on my authority.
1633If anyone asks, tell them it was my decision.  Let them hate me and not any of you.
1634Someone needs to speak with him and explain the reasoning behind the ban.
1635Also we need a public thread explaining to the URPG that toxic behavior is not okay.
1636Don't name names, but outline how we want to encourage decency and respect.
1637HKim - 11/28/2017
1638Is there anyone that can assist in this?
1639Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1640Yeah
1641It reinforces that he did back down regarding Ralin and DP
1642But nothing suggests that he/they will stop their toxic crusades against people
1643Smiles - 11/28/2017
1644I can write the thread if Mon or Harry or anyone else wants to post it, obviously at this point I don't think I'm the prime person to give that message
1645HKim - 11/28/2017
1646Thank you Smiles.
1647If you write it, I'll post it up.
1648That should reinforce that if they want to go against anyone, it should be me.
1649I hope that prevents any further anger against SB.
1650Smiles - 11/28/2017
1651will do, thank you so much Harry!
1652Liam - 11/28/2017
1653I can talk to weir if people are good with that
1654also
1655[6:24 PM] Ralin: ive heard he can be mysoginistic but
1656in reference to Gray
1657I don't know if it's because Ely and Smiles were heads and authorities who called weir/gray out on shit and I didn't want to bring it up because it may have been out of nowhere, but I did notice (and it had been mentioned) and nitro and I hadn't been blocked nor targeted, and weir's feelings towards us are much softer than toward ely and smiles
1658I just want to say that that is some hard. shit. if I've ever heard any; there's no place for misogyny nor misogynistic undertones
1659just airing that out
1660HKim - 11/28/2017
1661Yes Liam, I'm fine if you're the one that talks to Weir.
1662But coordinate with Ash and Monbrey regarding permissions.
1663Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1664Im terrible guilty of making sarcastic jokes that dont actually reflect my opinions, particularly sexist/racist things
1665Like that transexuals in the military thing I said to troll gun/mock Trump
1666Liam - 11/28/2017
1667jokes and differing cultures are one thing that can be observed and moved on from, actual misogyny is another
1668Smiles - 11/28/2017
1669Gray apparently had a voice chat somewhere off the server where he talked about wanting to sexually abuse different people. I mean you imagine that and it's :/
1670HKim - 11/28/2017
1671Maybe we'll be lucky and he leaves with Weir's ban
1672Liam - 11/28/2017
1673can only pray
1674Smiles - 11/28/2017
1675https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knSkfsXdtLG3YKai4Ad0pZy0itzfkGx9DwZbp7iJE_w/edit?usp=sharing lemme know if anything to change
1676Google Docs
1677URPG Community Culture
1678Events over the past few days have revealed disturbing instances of toxicity in the URPG community. While these events and the parties involved will not be directly named here, we wanted to invite everyone to review the URPG community rules we’ve established together. This is a community that r...
1679
1680Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1681Thats pretty fucked - I admit to my previous behaviour and reflecting on it i realise what a fuckhead I was
1682Im very grateful Ely and I got past it
1683Liam - 11/28/2017
1684when will we executing this/in what order? should I wait for the ban first and then talk to him (I assume this is preferred)?
1685Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1686I feel like I should be doing it, but Im likely to get pretty angry
1687HKim - 11/28/2017
1688We want someone who isn't giong to cuss him out, I feel.
1689Just let Monbrey know when you're doing it so he can remove discord permissions.
1690Ash will do the same in all the Contest related threads and such.
1691Smiles - 11/28/2017
1692I'll edit infohub banned members list, let me know when to remove pwn permissions
1693HKim - 11/28/2017
1694I'll post the thread after you
1695fionished talkign with him.
1696Liam - 11/28/2017
1697I can do it now
1698he's online
1699âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1700He shouldn't have any special forum permissions to begin with.  Even if he did, I can't do a thing about it.
1701HKim - 11/28/2017
1702What permissions does he have on PWN?
1703Smiles - 11/28/2017
1704Oh sorry, the question I meant was - does URPG ban merit a forum ban? In the case of urpg, for him it would be the same thing (wanted to ask and check)
1705he has no forum permissions lol
1706HKim - 11/28/2017
1707Usually it doesn't merit, but of course you're in charge of PWN, Smiles.
1708I believe you're allowed to do what you want.
1709Liam - 11/28/2017
1710I've started the conversation
1711Smiles - 11/28/2017
1712I won't, unless he presses somehow on the forums and that involves further action
1713HKim - 11/28/2017
1714Let me know if anyone notices him doing the same to PXR.
1715Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1716So am I removing permissions, or just banning him from the servers
1717HKim - 11/28/2017
1718Yes.
1719Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1720Please also keep in mind Magik has admin control over Invitational server too
1721HKim - 11/28/2017
1722Sigh
1723Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1724I dont imagine he'd cause trouble but it should be noted
1725Harry that wasnt a yes or no question
1726HKim - 11/28/2017
1727Ban him from the servers.
1728A ban is a ban
1729We need to talk to Magik.
1730Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1731Done
1732Are we clear on if this is temp/perm?
1733âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1734I definitely vote temp.  I think it could lessen the fallout we're guaranteed to have that I believe will negatively affect URPG as a whole.
1735Also that was fast on people noticing
1736Liam - 11/28/2017
1737well, I just told him perm
1738Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1739[11:35 AM] Brock: Hey Mon
1740[11:36 AM] Brock: It seems some misinformation has been spread
1741why me :rolling_eyes:
1742Liam - 11/28/2017
1743so unless you want to give him a bone, which I don't think so
1744we looked passed the 1.7mil cheating when it could've been a temp ban
1745and honestly, I'd punish that much more lightly than cyber bullying
1746HKim - 11/28/2017
1747I posted the thread and locked it.
1748Let me know if you think it should be opened.
1749threads*
1750Liam - 11/28/2017
1751I don't think so
1752HKim - 11/28/2017
1753Also I don't know why he's bothering you, Monbrey.  I'm the one that banned him.
1754Liam - 11/28/2017
1755we can have discussions elsewhere, having it locked shows that it's a firm stance
1756HKim - 11/28/2017
1757Someone post in the warned/banned thread about this
1758Include the details including links to convos
1759Like the Nitro/Ralin one
1760https://pastebin.com/KZZiArBT
1761Pastebin
1762convo with ralin - Pastebin.com
1763
1764Liam - 11/28/2017
1765I can do that, with recent convo with weir in a bit
1766I'm going to grab something to eat and drink
1767HKim - 11/28/2017
1768Yeah I need to get out of this chair
1769Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1770I told him to talk to Harry or continue talking to you Liam
1771Im genuinely too busy at work right now
1772Liam - 11/28/2017
1773that's fine
1774thanks mon
1775HKim - 11/28/2017
1776Post here if you hear any potential fallout.
1777Better to handle it as it occurs.
1778âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/28/2017
1779@HKim In case you didn't see my DM, he can't message you because you two don't share a server and aren't friends
1780Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1781Dash also makes a point that this should be open to all staff now about what/why
1782Liam - 11/28/2017
1783I can say something in a moment
1784weir would like some c/p'd convos or screen shots/whatever
1785but I'd rather keep anonymity to all the parties involved
1786I don't think I'm good to share the convo either ralin/DP shared with us, and just giving him the convo of him explaining he hates ely with Ash wouldn't show anything other than an open dislike for ely/smiles
1787
1788Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1789We take that risk, yeah. Talk about what we said, not too much about what others have said
1790We may need to quote some of what Ralin said, anonymised of course
1791I really think we need to state something like
1792We received multiple reports of Weir behaving in a way that was toxic and bullying to others - it led to dp leaving, it was one key factor in Elysia leaving
1793We had complaints that people felt that he would spread his personal opinions on someone to rally others a breed a culture of hatred towards them. 
1794Ultimately, it was Harry's decision to remove him because that kind of activity completely destroys the "safe space" we try to provide in URPG.
1795It needs to be clear that we didnt ban because of one block threat
1796Smiles - 11/28/2017
1797yes
1798Liam - 11/28/2017
1799I got a paragraph going where that fits in
1800Nitro - 11/28/2017
1801It was more than one person, and it was thoroughly researched on our part, yeah
1802We talked about benefit of doubt today
1803Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1804I dont want to rubbish K'sariyas feelings either. I entirely sympathise with why shes hurt too. But that doesnt change or validate his actions
1805Liam - 11/28/2017
1806yea
1807Nitro - 11/28/2017
1808I think if people are critical of this decision
1809Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1810Her issues with Ely are separate to Weirs conduct
1811Nitro - 11/28/2017
1812It’ll help to tackle those criticisms head-o
1813Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1814Possibly one of the reasons driving his conduct though
1815Nitro - 11/28/2017
1816Instead of allowing the shadow hate to double down lol
1817Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1818Yeah
1819Honestly im unsure of the permaban too
1820I know it'll be debated
1821Liam - 11/28/2017
1822never mind, my message was not going to sound coherent lol
1823Smiles - 11/28/2017
1824LOL Liam, same
1825Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1826And by "unsure" that means Im not sure I DONT support it either
1827Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1828I want to make sure Im covering things correctly and not saying too much
1829"We received multiple complaints that people felt that he would spread his personal opinions on someone to rally others against individuals, and this the most common reason people attributed the "toxic environment" too. Previously Julio had been targetted, this time Elysia. That is not to say there are no other problems or causes around. Elysia has now also left, and that will likely help too, though I realise leaving and being banned are not the same in the minds of people who find one/both toxic. I think that's a better description of what we saw as the underlying issue Harry wanted to address, not just an isolated boycott or block threat which I do believe was resolved between them. "
1830#diplomacyishard
1831#saystheDreadGod
1832Liam - 11/28/2017
1833sounds good
1834I do think Ely leaving will qualm others momentarily, but I do believe her coming back would be all for the greater than not
1835Smiles - 11/28/2017
1836yeah I would just change the "will likely help to" to like "will likely calm the situation" or something but this is great, thank you Mon!!! sorry for all we put you through :sob:
1837Can I quote the part where he calls us caustic snakes haha
1838Liam - 11/28/2017
1839We could quote a lot, but no need to
1840Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1841Im not sure quoting something he said to Ash when asked by Ash is entirely appropriate
1842Lest we be accused of entrapment lol
1843Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1844We havent properly said anything about his ban either, people are asking
1845Soulmaster - 11/28/2017
1846Yeah we're gonna have to say something
1847Or have a resposne ready when people ask
1848Dread God | Monbrey - 11/28/2017
1849Just realised and deleted the Infohub account too
1850Nitro - 11/28/2017
1851Looks like Johnbdm has left the server
1852November 29, 2017
1853Nitro - 11/29/2017
1854Liam's comment in #staff reminded me(edited)
1855THere's stuff towards the end of the Ralin log that warrants a discussion about Gray imo(edited)
1856Gray hasn't had a singular blow-up like this whole one that Weir had
1857But if anything, the pattern of baiting and toeing the borderling has been even more visible with him
1858Liam - 11/29/2017
1859yea, that was someone I was specifically thinking of when writing that comment
1860Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1861Entirely agree
1862Smiles - 11/29/2017
1863sorry all, have been mmoing, where are we on this
1864Nitro - 11/29/2017
1865[6:22 PM] Ralin: Ik it doesntmatter but
1866[6:22 PM] Ralin: no one seemed to have beef with you
1867[6:22 PM] Nitro: Okay that’s actually strange to me
1868[6:23 PM] Nitro: I KNOW I’m in the wrong too
1869[6:23 PM] Nitro: Why do I get a pass and not ely lmao
1870[6:23 PM] Ralin: because Gray like
1871[6:23 PM] Ralin: despises Ely
1872[6:23 PM] Ralin: and ik gray isnt in this
1873[6:23 PM] Ralin: but he is good friends with weir and in the zoo
1874[6:23 PM] Ralin: he expresses it a shit ton lol
1875[6:24 PM] Nitro: I heard from Ely he said something borderline rapey in an inner zoo chat
1876[6:24 PM] Ralin: ive heard he can be mysoginistic but
1877[6:24 PM] Ralin: we cant do much without knowing what hes said, only hearing it down the grapevine doesnt help
1878[6:25 PM] Nitro: Well said
1879[6:25 PM] Ralin: but i think
1880[6:25 PM] Ralin: that also is attached to Smiles as well
1881[6:25 PM] Ralin: due to that event in august when smiles threatened to ban gray in AH
1882[6:25 PM] Ralin: thats been resolved and al, but i think he held a grudge on that
1883[6:25 PM] Ralin: and thus, smiles is seen in a bad light too
1884Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1885Pretty constructive discusson in #staff
1886Liam - 11/29/2017
1887thus far
1888I have to say though
1889Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1890Yeah Smiles is too fucking positive and happy all the time :angry:
1891Nitro - 11/29/2017
1892positive and happy, in 2017?
1893Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1894Well, if you havent been molested by a celebrity you're on the good side of 2017
1895Smiles - 11/29/2017
1896:eyes: YALL I HAVE SUCH A WILD STORY
1897👀1
1898Nitro - 11/29/2017
1899stop bragging about your well-being
1900Smiles - 11/29/2017
1901MATT LAURER I'M CRYING
1902Liam - 11/29/2017
1903I do think Sari and Felly should take a more active stance on working with Onmyo and showing that the divide is not as bad as some community members make it out to be (i.e. what was weir, gray, magik) but am unsure how to bring it up
1904Smiles - 11/29/2017
1905is this relevant rn, do you all want a crazy story right now
1906Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1907Sure lol
1908Smiles - 11/29/2017
1909OKAY SO
1910I'm playing this mmo called FlyFF, that I started in middle school, gave up on, and now am playing again
1911just casually playing, it's really good nostalgia and all, I have a really good time
1912I'm on the discord, just casually asking for a party to level with some people
1913then this really nice player is like "oh hey, come join our guild!" long story short, I end up switching servers to come play with them, I don't mind, I'm still low leveled
1914THEN SHE GIVES ME LIKE TWO BILLION DOLLARS AND A WHOLA BUNCHA OTHER STUFF
1915and is like "well alright, welcome to the cult, glad to have you with us, can't wait for the siege!!" I'm so damn shook rn
1916Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1917You have a sugar momma
1918You're a trophy wife
1919Smiles - 11/29/2017
1920I DO
1921I REALLY DO
1922SHE LIKE
1923she was awakening all this equipment for me
1924then she comes back, trades me this cash shop vampire costume and is like "oh wow, I really like that look on you"
1925I'm like "oh haha! thanks! me too??"
1926I got no idea what's happening y'all
1927Nitro - 11/29/2017
1928man
1929I really wish I could reconnect with my sprite art pals on pe2k
1930living vicariously through you(edited)
1931Smiles - 11/29/2017
1932Nitro come play :eyes:
1933Nitro - 11/29/2017
1934honestly send that link
1935Smiles - 11/29/2017
1936http://en.flyff.webzen.com/ it's soooooo good
1937just mindless grinding and friends! and quests!
1938Nitro - 11/29/2017
1939:eyes:
1940Smiles - 11/29/2017
1941I now have 2 billion I'll split with you lmao
1942Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
1943I might join lol
1944Liam - 11/29/2017
1945is ely there? ;-;
1946Nitro - 11/29/2017
1947gonna leave home after this staff convo to pick up ski gloves from my friend
1948Smiles - 11/29/2017
1949Y'ALL THIS IS SO GOOD FOR MY MENTAL HEALTH
1950I WILL GET HER HERE
1951Nitro - 11/29/2017
1952but I'll be back in like 30 from when I leave
1953Liam - 11/29/2017
1954>ski gloves
1955Smiles - 11/29/2017
1956skiing :heart: I heard that's wonderful!!
1957have you seen that clip of Magic on the slopes lmao
1958"black people don't skii"
1959Liam - 11/29/2017
1960>when you live in Nebraska and the closest skiing is on the bluffs in iowa but those are just glorified hills and you're basically sledding on sticks
1961also I just watched 1922 with my family and woops, probs should've watched it alone; way too close to home and now my mom is making murder jokes with my dad and I while my sister makes rat jokes with her pet rats
1962Nitro - 11/29/2017
1963we were thinking about going to Vermont, not sure how far that is from Nebraska
1964all the mideast ones are lumped together for me
1965Smiles - 11/29/2017
1966LIAM ;;; you guys are such a cute family!!
1967Nitro - 11/29/2017
1968but instead we're going to Montreal
1969Liam - 11/29/2017
1970you're crossing the continent and Nebraska is right in the middle
1971;-;
1972Nitro - 11/29/2017
1973oh lol
1974hmm
1975Liam - 11/29/2017
1976>mideast
1977Nitro - 11/29/2017
1978im gonna make fd ski
1979Liam - 11/29/2017
1980>MIDWEST
1981Nitro - 11/29/2017
1982smiles u gotta join
1983Smiles - 11/29/2017
1984LMAOOO
1985omg ;;; one of my best friends is from new hampshire
1986let's go!! she'd love to meet you guys
1987"these are my online friends... from FOREVER"
1988HKim - 11/29/2017
1989This sounds like a cult.
1990Nitro - 11/29/2017
1991"from longer than any of us actaully remember"
1992HKim - 11/29/2017
1993I'm worried.
1994Smiles - 11/29/2017
1995HARRY COME PLAY TOO
1996HKim - 11/29/2017
1997Taht's exactly what a cultist would say!
1998Smiles - 11/29/2017
1999I'm so happy rn
2000Nitro - 11/29/2017
2001IN 2017
2002IMAGINE THAT
2003Smiles - 11/29/2017
2004there's an exp event happening right now, it's lit!
2005Liam - 11/29/2017
2006#jonestownnumber2
2007#CHILDRENOFTHECORN
2008Smiles - 11/29/2017
2009I was thinking of making a healer but now I think I'll go for a blade stocked with two huge swords :heart_eyes_cat:
2010Liam - 11/29/2017
2011OMG EVERYTHING COMES BACK TO MURDER IN A CORNFIELD IN NEBRASKA
2012:weary2:
2013weary21
2014HKim - 11/29/2017
2015I'm going to go back to paying attention to the important stuff in staff chat.
2016You crazies.
2017Soulmaster - 11/29/2017
2018Smiles no, don't get people hooked on a new game right before finals
2019Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2020Pfff finals. Get a job, learn to be stressed all year round
2021Soulmaster - 11/29/2017
2022Meh I'm more of the "fuck it" attitude year round
2023Smiles - 11/29/2017
2024hey if I get Ely to play this you all gotta play it :clap: !!
2025you don't gotta fix anything, no one is relying on you
2026Soulmaster - 11/29/2017
2027Give it like 2 weeks and I'll try it, or at least until after this engineering test tomorrow
2028Smiles - 11/29/2017
2029yasss!! SOUL!! :clap: good luck!
2030Liam - 11/29/2017
2031;-; I'll have school for the next 5 years still
2032and then still take exams like every 2-4 years after continuously
2033Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2034So I clicked the link and my first thought was "oh god its so weeb"
2035Smiles - 11/29/2017
2036"what's this anime girl on the left side of the 
2037screen mom pull the plug!!"(edited)
2038Nitro - 11/29/2017
2039https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.php?threads/beyond-the-door-a-2nd-ref-log-by-weir.247081/#post-6383119
2040Bulbagarden Forums
2041Beyond the Door (A 2nd Ref Log by Weir)
2042[IMG] You are the one who will open the door. [IMG] This is the Second Ref log of Weirlind120. For the first ref log, and all the battles leading...
2043
2044did somebody tell Weir that the length of the ban was changed?
2045Smiles - 11/29/2017
2046he revolts me
2047yet another time he expects to get away with nothing but a slap on the wrist
2048Nitro - 11/29/2017
2049"See ya in a few months, URPG."
2050yeah
2051it deserves additional action
2052Smiles - 11/29/2017
2053I believe the complete forum ban was the next step if he decided to progress the situation
2054which he has
2055Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2056I told him to log the battle, and that we hadn't decided on a ban length
2057Nitro - 11/29/2017
2058this is a repeat of the 1.5m legend tracker thing but worse
2059i'm not gonna be played like this
2060Smiles - 11/29/2017
2061^
2062for him to even put that phrase into there is to say "let me push and see how far I can get with them doing nothing" and I refuse for that to be the case
2063Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2064:face_palm: he really doesnt do himself any favours
2065Nitro - 11/29/2017
2066I already thought the 3-month number being floated by most of the officials was pretty lenient
2067this kinda seals it as a "no way" for me
2068it's tricky, when most of the officials are being vocal without a lot of the relevant information
2069Smiles - 11/29/2017
2070I had a very long sit down conversation with Ely today
2071the psychological torment that he has put her through shouldn't be legal, I'm convinced, to be frank, this man is a psychopath
2072I'm not going to stand here and pretend to not know that and willingly know that he'll be allowed back into the game
2073I simply won't
2074the level of manipulation and torment he has put her through and the extent to which he's torn people against her
2075you all have the humanity to see this, and now I'm pleading this not as a mod but as a friend
2076do not let this maniac back into the game
2077Nitro - 11/29/2017
2078I was originally in favor of speaking to Weir before making a decision, and my guess is that a chat would help to provide more solid footing for the harsher kind of punishment that my gut says is appropriate(edited)
2079Shaky info can make it hard to come down on somebody with the same kind of force -- it's harder to be sure
2080Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2081He asked to speak to Harry and I. It was very much just him putting "his side" forward.
2082Can I ask who has been turned against her? I don't intend to pry into personal things though
2083I just need to collate whatever evidence is available
2084Smiles - 11/29/2017
2085Yes, of course - Mikey, K'sariya, he tried to reel Ralin into this as well, and I can ask for more specific names (think of people in the background like Menegoth, John, etc)
2086Nitro - 11/29/2017
2087noticed Mene left the server (as well as John yesterday)
2088Smiles - 11/29/2017
2089Just to put everything on the table, while we're here. Ely brought up something that
2090*I, unfortunately, know is true
2091back to this: Brock - Today at 12:28 PM
2092I hate her more than anyone in URPG
2093Followed closely by Smiles
2094She's a sarcastic, caustic, toxic snake
2095Who only does anything for either her benefit, Smiles's benefit, or just to be toxic
2096:')
2097Betcha didn't expect that answer! - these are the words from someone who expects no repercussions for his vitriol and for his toxic nature - we need to do something about this
2098He's coming for me next haha, and to be frank I'm not as strong or as noble as Elysia is
2099Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2100I'm incredibly 50/50 on that one. Its a horrible thing to say but it was said in mistaken confidence
2101Smiles - 11/29/2017
2102If this unfurls again, as we've been letting him go with the slap on the wrist again and again and again, he will be here in six months time but maybe I won't be
2103Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2104Maybe more 60/40 on your side or something though
2105Smiles - 11/29/2017
2106the awful thing is that now I know this
2107Like Ely, I can give you the entirety of my chat convo with him - never have we had a negative interaction. He said my stories were his favorite, particularly Mirrors.
2108Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2109So, devils advocate argument here, not my personal thoughts: you werent MEANT to know that
2110Personal thought: I dont know if thats better or worse
2111Smiles - 11/29/2017
2112Right! It was said in confidence
2113Doesn't change the fact that he despises my very existence haha, and the awkward truth is that I will never feel safe with him in this game
2114Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2115I have to be devils advocate way too often :frowning:
2116Smiles - 11/29/2017
2117knowing what he's done to Ely and others
2118no, it's great to have differing opinions!
2119Nitro - 11/29/2017
2120It's not fair to act on it, really
2121âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2122I still think it's 100% wrong to punish him for thoughts
2123Nitro - 11/29/2017
2124The risk you run with that is that you burn a bridge
2125âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2126Actions based on those, yes
2127Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2128I do think thats theres a lot of manipulative things said
2129Nitro - 11/29/2017
2130But knowing what we do
2131Hard to overlook it
2132Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2133What Im trying to gauge is how much intention there was to manipulate people
2134âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2135But I will never support punishing someone for mere thoughts
2136Smiles - 11/29/2017
2137Ash have you ever been on the receiving end of someone's hateful ideology against you on the basis of a portion of your identity you can't control
2138Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2139K'sariya would have been hurt by this Onmyo/Park blowup and directed that at Ely either way - I certainly agree having Weir by her side would not have helped that
2140âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2141Perhaps not as bad as others, but I feel like at least to some degree I did in my first few years here
2142Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2143@Smiles sounds like my mum and her partner tbh
2144âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2145Monbrey or someone else active during that time can probably give a more unbiased view on that
2146Smiles - 11/29/2017
2147I'm so sorry to hear that ): my mom and my dad, they're divorced now, but yeah
2148Nitro - 11/29/2017
2149I'll attest to Ash having a tough time
2150Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2151Yeah
2152Smiles - 11/29/2017
2153I don't know if you've ever walked into a room before and have known the stares of people who want to kill you
2154Nitro - 11/29/2017
2155on account of me being pretty awful to him lol
2156Smiles - 11/29/2017
2157they did nothing to me, but I ran out of there fast as hell
2158Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2159Cant say anyone has wanted to kill me, no
2160Smiles - 11/29/2017
2161There are psychological torments that go beyond anything physical someone could do to you
2162I would relay some of that exact sentiment Ely is feeling right now, and has felt over the past month, but it's too personal
2163I just hope that you can sympathize with that
2164Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2165Yeah I definitely felt that in her post
2166And was responsible for the early part :frowning:
2167It was directed at a lot more than just Weir
2168Smiles - 11/29/2017
2169She's really happy at the point that it's come to with you, she is really grateful for you tbh
2170Nitro - 11/29/2017
2171I think the bulk of it got at troublesome patterns in the way that Staff has responded to things
2172there's a lot of self-reflection to be done there
2173Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2174Its weird to think if they had responded correctly then I wouldnt be here trying to respond correctly now
2175Nitro - 11/29/2017
2176I think we're beginning to do this one right
2177Liam - 11/29/2017
2178yea, it was said, but he is doing himself no favors
2179Smiles - 11/29/2017
2180That's really where so much of it hurts for her right now - all of the immense work she's put into the game to feel, for her, like she's failed at making this big, important part any better
2181Liam - 11/29/2017
2182along with either making his ban permanent for longer, we should have a chat with staff about leaking
2183Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2184Oh, that wasnt a leak as such, that was Harry and I speaking to him
2185Nitro - 11/29/2017
2186I'm not comfortable calling them leaks
2187Generally I'm in favor of providing people more information
2188Than I think staff normally does
2189Which is a whole different conversation
2190Liam - 11/29/2017
2191I'm in favor of that too, but sensitive topics that are still up in the air: not as much
2192Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2193This isnt even directed at him
2194Nitro - 11/29/2017
2195But you can't jump on specific details, esp when undetermined, and basically throw them in our face like this
2196Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2197But in general
2198Liam - 11/29/2017
2199and okay then if it was mon/harry and weir just being dumb
2200Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2201Its really frustrating when they expect us to keep their confidences
2202(which we should)
2203But they'll run with any bit of gossip
2204Nitro - 11/29/2017
2205I'm grateful as fuck
2206That Ralin was willing to go on record
2207Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2208Weir being REALLY dumb or really cocky
2209Nitro - 11/29/2017
2210And speak openly
2211Smiles - 11/29/2017
2212Running far and wide, weir thrives off this
2213Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2214That you/Ralin convo was imo the most unbiased thing we have
2215Nitro - 11/29/2017
2216It makes things so much easier
2217And I think it's the difference between us and the officials right now
2218Is that we've read that log, and they haven't
2219Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2220I think if we anonymise key extracts from various conversations
2221That might really help
2222Nitro - 11/29/2017
2223I wanted to do that earlier while talking to k'sa(edited)
2224Kind of hinted at some tidbits
2225Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2226But for obvious reasons Im not going to throw Ralin's name in there and break any more friendships he might have
2227Nitro - 11/29/2017
2228But didn't want to go full rogue
2229HKim - 11/29/2017
2230Talk about this in staff
2231Nitro - 11/29/2017
2232Right @ mon(edited)
2233HKim - 11/29/2017
2234Not mod
2235Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2236Unfortunately I dont think we can fully
2237We're talking here to work out the right way
2238Nitro - 11/29/2017
2239I never did tell Ralin that he was speaking to JUST mods
2240Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2241Because it should be discussed with everyone
2242Nitro - 11/29/2017
2243But you may run the risk of turning some of the officials who have defended Weir against Ralin
2244This is basically the part of it that I hate
2245Where it becomes political even within staff
2246I trust Mikey deeply, K'sa and Dash somewhat, but I still could see Ralin suffering some repercussions from all three as a worst case scenario
2247Liam - 11/29/2017
2248^
2249I actually worry more with mikey/sari because of how close they are with weir
2250Smiles - 11/29/2017
2251coincidentally, I'm talking to him right now
2252Ralin - Today at 12:45 AM
2253Oh god okay ;-;
2254I just uh was thinking
22551) make sure ely knows shes on my mind even if i forget to message her
2256And uh
2257After this invitational, im gonna maybe take my breather
2258I really really wanna throw my foot down, and try my best to fill Ely's giant freakin boots, but I really need to figure stuff out I think
2259This has already done so much to him, Ralin, who is the youngest of all of us
2260and has acted the most maturely of anyone I have ever known
2261Yet at the same time, I think the Officials should know - a lot of what we talked about... I don't want there to be dissent and secrets, I see why people are frustrated
2262Nitro - 11/29/2017
2263agreed
2264Smiles - 11/29/2017
2265Maybe we can try just weathering the storm it'll be
2266Nitro - 11/29/2017
2267it's tough to talk about this when they dont know what we know
2268and it's kinda been the strongest part of their argument so far that they don't know(edited)
2269Liam - 11/29/2017
2270true
2271Smiles - 11/29/2017
2272Let's just give that to them, the quotes, the log, just put it on the table
2273Nitro - 11/29/2017
2274my whole point comes down to improving communication, basically
2275Smiles - 11/29/2017
2276I'll tell people I fear for my sanity if he's here, I don't mind
2277Nitro - 11/29/2017
2278@Dread God | Monbrey @HKim post the Ralin log in #staff ?(edited)
2279Liam - 11/29/2017
2280also the comments he made to Ash in their convo, I don't see as wrong that we know that, i.e. false confidence
2281Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2282Ask Ralin
2283Liam - 11/29/2017
2284like he didn't see talking to Ash as talking to a staff member, but the problem with that is Ash is always as staff member
2285not only that
2286Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2287No I think Ash did the right thing, it's a big enough concern that a staff member shouldn't stay quiet about
2288Liam - 11/29/2017
2289but if that means he's going to change his narrative because he's speaking officially, then that tells me he knows what he is doing/thinks is wrong
2290Smiles - 11/29/2017
2291^^^^^^^^
2292Liam - 11/29/2017
2293(oh I'm not saying what ash did was wrong)
2294(just pointing out that taking that convo into consideration on where weir bases himself isn't wrong)
2295Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2296Especially not someone we trust to be mod
2297âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2298Honestly, the problem is that I felt like any other conversation I tried to have with him would be dismissed as "him saying whatever he could to weasel out of trouble"
2299Liam - 11/29/2017
2300oh I never posted my convo with him
2301in where he seemed to do that
2302Nitro - 11/29/2017
2303Yeah, that's the thing(edited)
2304If we chatted with him, which I still think is right, we'd really have to press him
2305And be certain on what kind of accusations we'd be coming with
2306Also not a criticism of Ash, to be clear -- completely different scenarios(edited)
2307HKim - 11/29/2017
2308No, post it in staff
2309Nitro - 11/29/2017
2310As for asking Ralin, I could do that but I think the issue is on STaff's part
2311HKim - 11/29/2017
2312There isn't taht much a difference between mods and officials.
2313Nitro - 11/29/2017
2314And trusting them to respond responsibly without personal backlash
2315HKim - 11/29/2017
2316Post it in staff, Nitro.
2317Nitro - 11/29/2017
2318Yeah I'll post it
2319HKim - 11/29/2017
2320And if you want,m bring up what Weir said in his log
2321We can't keep having conversations in here, then having the same ones ins taff.
2322âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2323I'm still absolutely against acting on mere thoughts, especially ones he told in "false confidence" when very specifically asked about the person in question.  It's not like he just went up to some random person and said "I absolutely hate [other person]" for no reason.
2324Smiles - 11/29/2017
2325We have very different worldviews, Ash, and this is okay
2326Liam - 11/29/2017
2327I'm not basing my decisions on his thoughts Ash, what he said to you gives me insight to what he thinks, so his following actions have those thoughts behind them, he acts on those thoughts, it gives me confidence in knowing that what he did was more out of spite and vindictive behavior than a mistake
2328also this is how our convo went down, to his benefit I was taking time to center my thoughts and let y'all know when the convo started; I also tried giving him a bone to tell me if he thought he had done anything wrong recently (the contest thing was a bit out of nowhere, but also shows me he doesn't think what he did was wrong)
2329https://pastebin.com/MVJKBsLa
2330Pastebin
2331Liam - Last Tuesday at 6:19 PM Hey, we need to talk Brock - Last Tuesday at - Pastebin.com
2332
2333Nitro - 11/29/2017
2334They're not thoughts
2335They're material actions
2336I think it needs to be said that we're throwing out the Julio stuff as a point of reference
2337Reading over K'sa's doc again, there seems to be equivalency between Julio's version of toxicity and Weir's when they're really pretty different
2338And also, we already said it was mishandled
2339Liam - 11/29/2017
2340yea, I'd only say that if someone brings it up again
2341it was an entirely different scenario
2342Nitro - 11/29/2017
2343Kind of being the police here, but I expect Dash to bring it up
2344Liam - 11/29/2017
2345mene, john, and gray baited and trolled him constantly knowing he would get salty as well as us mishandling it
2346Nitro - 11/29/2017
2347Our problem children
2348Problem sons
2349Liam - 11/29/2017
2350john, imo, can get serious and chill and is actually p decent, mene sort of started that way, and idk if it was the B meme thing or him not becoming an official, or multiple things, but he spiraled out p fast and is now just a troll who only comments to lightly troll and @ his other semi-trolly friends, which is annoying, but is fine and not harmful
2351gray however, is v much problem son; I'd go the ol' catholic route and send him to a boarding school to get whacked by nuns, but that's just me
2352Soulmaster - 11/29/2017
2353That sounds like a wonderful punishment
2354If there's one thing Catholics are good at, it's weaponized regret
2355Liam - 11/29/2017
2356#catholicguilt
2357#alwayswithme
2358Smiles - 11/29/2017
2359Can I share the convo Ash had with him now?
2360Nitro - 11/29/2017
2361Last time: strongly, strongly want to voice my belief that 3mos is too little
2362More inclined to throw it out, but Weir did say that he stood by it to HKim and Mon
2363Sharing portions could be fair game now
2364Liam - 11/29/2017
2365so reading harry/mon/mikey/weir convo
2366I still really don't like that there are people in staff telling weir that his ban was a mistake
2367âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2368I'm still waiting for Liam's, HKim's, and Dash's pastebin to load
2369Liam - 11/29/2017
2370it's giving him reason to think what he did wasn't wrong and that he's going to be fine
2371Nitro - 11/29/2017
2372Ash, I can put them in a google docs if you want
2373âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2374Also, I really don't think it's fair to post only that without the fact that it's a reply to me specifically asking
2375I'm not sure if that would help, my computer just isn't as new as it used to be
2376Dread God | Monbrey - 11/29/2017
2377Agreed
2378Nitro - 11/29/2017
2379@âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nm5V0GFTMxweg3HWp7-q1sXhukrTYktUguRr026RtB0/edit?usp=sharing
2380Google Docs
2381Untitled document
2382LIAM AND WEIR: Liam - Last Tuesday at 6:19 PM Hey, we need to talk Brock - Last Tuesday at 6:19 PM What Oh god what happened Liam - Last Tuesday at 6:21 PM Do you have an idea what this may be about? Brock - Last Tuesday at 6:21 PM Absolutely none The contest earlier? Liam - Last Tuesday at ...
2383
2384too late i did it haha
2385if it loads for you, feel free to play with font or formatting so it reads easier
2386âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 11/29/2017
2387It loaded when I copy/pasted the URL into Safari instead of Firefox...
2388Nitro - 11/29/2017
2389lol nice
2390Liam - 11/29/2017
2391can I make a comment about "not mentioning things we talk about in staff, especially sensitive topics, to non-staff"?
2392I feel like it's needed
2393HKim - 11/29/2017
2394I'l do it.
2395November 30, 2017
2396Dread God | Monbrey - 11/30/2017
2397URPG Times Staff Update - We banned your editor sorry about that
2398Also we talked about legendaries and stuff
2399December 1, 2017
2400Smiles - 12/01/2017
2401today's episode of jerk behavior
2402The Artist... - Today at 12:57 PM
2403Contest Wheel gives pokemon though
2404Also, Raffle stuff doesnt seem to be on PWN ;[
2405Magikchicken - Today at 1:02 PM
2406It shall be soon, I’ve outsourced raffle stuff
2407Feel free to use the BMG thread for now :wink:
2408The Artist... | Barely Ever Refs - Today at 1:03 PM
2409I just had to login to BMG. I feel dirty.
2410Magikchicken - Today at 1:03 PM
2411That’s just the sensation of the slime from PWN sloughing off
2412You’ll feel much cleaner, soon :laughing:
2413Nitro - 12/01/2017
2414yeah magik's a cock
2415example of kindspeak masking nasty thoughts
2416i still wanna obliterate this guy for accusing me of leading an echo chamber
2417Smiles - 12/01/2017
2418I say go for it, just put it all on the table!!
2419Smiles - Today at 1:06 PM
2420@Magikchicken hey, please don't berate one of urpg's host forums. it's unprofessional and unnecessary.
2421Magikchicken - Today at 1:13 PM
2422Okay
2423NEW MESSAGES
2424Magikchicken - Today at 1:14 PM
2425@Smiles Did you read the entire exchange? I didn’t start it, nor was it anything other than good-natured. Please refrain from drama :slight_smile:
2426is he 5 or
2427Nitro - 12/01/2017
2428see, that's the thing
2429he starts drama but hides it as good-natured
2430he's even fooled himself
2431lemme back u up real quick
2432which chat
2433Smiles - 12/01/2017
2434thanks Nitro :heart: maybe it's just me saying it, idk - invitational prize wheel!(edited)
2435Nitro - 12/01/2017
2436also, not sure if we still need this chat?
2437I always assumed there was a mods chat / was kinda surprised there wasn't til now, but I thought it was only for nagging people to remember to decide things
2438not sure if having this chat to actively discuss issues is ideal long-term
2439âš” Chandra Nalaar âš” | Ash K. - 12/01/2017
2440If nothing else, it's probably best to keep for history until we sort out Weir
2441Nitro - 12/01/2017
2442good point
2443Nitro - 12/01/2017
2444May be insane, but I'm interpreting this as another "openly defiant" kind of thing that falls in line with the bit from his log http://forums.petalburgwoods.com/showthread.php/9831-CHARACTER-OF-THE-MONTH?p=131580&viewfull=1#post131580
2445CHARACTER OF THE MONTH
2446Petalburg Woods Forum
2447
2448Not really sure if I'm being reasonable so take it with a grain of salt lol
2449December 2, 2017
2450Dread God | Monbrey - 12/02/2017
2451I really cant figure that kid out
2452Liam - 12/02/2017
2453s m h
2454Nitro - 12/02/2017
2455nag nag nag https://forums.bulbagarden.net/index.php?threads/changes-to-repeat-profession-legends.242052/page-3#post-6381340
2456December 4, 2017
2457Nitro - 12/04/2017
2458"I could sit here and make a long post naming pretty much everyone and my frustrations with them. Sometimes I'm pretty damn tempted to just for my own venting sake, but there's no value or merit in it."
2459sorta genuinely believe this would help
2460i was about to make a post but thought better of it lol
2461three paragraphs typed up and all and then "new messages were posted / would you like to view them?"
2462Dread God | Monbrey - 12/04/2017
2463Im actually editing that and saying more
2464And unfortunately no. I can promise you it would not be a diplomatic post
2465Nitro - 12/04/2017
2466hell, I personally think that's the better way to do it
2467no matter who you're sending shots at(edited)
2468Dread God | Monbrey - 12/04/2017
2469fuckin everyone dude
2470I mean at the very least you can all forget about each other and direct your hostilities to me :smiley:
2471I've ripped into people before and it usually ends up with an anon feedback apology or something lmao
2472Liam - 12/04/2017
2473loool
2474I'm game, but I bet we'd loose a few in the aftermath tbh
2475Nitro - 12/04/2017
2476better to get everything in the open and get over it lol
2477Dread God | Monbrey - 12/04/2017
2478Eh, read my edit. I dont hold grudges and I know people do things with good intentions
2479Nitro - 12/04/2017
2480yea, I think that's huge
2481easier to speak openly in staff than in general bc we should trust each other to have the best in mind
2482Dread God | Monbrey - 12/04/2017
2483I think the very generic statement I can make is "get the fuck over yourselves"
2484Also I really mean that although I care about staff I do not care about any of you individually over the rest/URPG
2485Nitro - 12/04/2017
2486it's an important point
2487Liam - 12/04/2017
2488^
2489you don't are about me mon over other people?! I'M OFFENDED AND TRIGGERED(edited)
2490although
2491on a brighter note
2492Sari and I just had a nice convo of which was me starting with "hey I'm not attacking you, nor do I dislike you" and it turned into good quality stuff
2493Dread God | Monbrey - 12/04/2017
2494Yeah I dont dislike anyone either. But holy fuck are you all a pain in my arse sometimes
2495knifetro1
2496🍑1
2497Nitro - 12/04/2017
2498lolol
2499I was about to send K'sa a DM myself
2500but yeah, for the moment I think I just need to step off
2501HKim - 12/04/2017
2502Wiat, are we still talking about this.
2503Frak, you'd think it be finished once I actually decided the ban.
2504
2505Dread God | Monbrey - 12/04/2017
2506Good one Harry