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109/02/2016, 08:25 - L J Davis: So, amazingly, it seems NO ONE on JDC works at the weekend! ??
209/02/2016, 08:40 - A Collins: Eh?
309/02/2016, 08:41 - L J Davis: Or maybe they just don't want to talk about it?
409/02/2016, 08:46 - Z Greaves: Late to the party but I find myself in agreement with yannis again #fannis ...we're really doing rather well folks; stay positive and focus on what we've achieved :)
509/02/2016, 08:58 - A Yassaee: Nigel Crisp?
609/02/2016, 10:39 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
709/02/2016, 10:42 - A Collier I'm not convinced that's against the rules. Using BMA resources and sending unsolicited mailings is but a Facebook posting doesn't breech the rules as far as I can see.
809/02/2016, 10:44 - A Sami: I must admit that I only reas the rules once. I was under impression, that in addition to what you mentioned, any promotion is not welcomed.
909/02/2016, 10:45 - A Sami: Read*
1009/02/2016, 10:48 - A Sami: I think because Krishna posted about council elections on facebook with a disclaimer that it is ok as he is not standing for it this time made me think it should not be done if he was. 
11
12I need to read the rules and have breakfast before checking facebook ??
1309/02/2016, 11:24 - C Castles: I think Andrew is right - you cannot use bma resources or your bma position to try and canvas
1409/02/2016, 11:43 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
1509/02/2016, 11:44 - A Sami: Thank you, Connan.
16
17Any idea what Shaun is talking about?
1809/02/2016, 11:45 - K Mohan: Isn't this what Johann was talking about a couple of days ago but agreed with DD that this would not affect current IA? It might not be but just wondered.
1909/02/2016, 11:47 - A Sami: I think this might be a cheap attempt to try and weaken the action for tomorrow.
2009/02/2016, 11:52 - J Malawana: Yes. Don't worry.
2109/02/2016, 11:55 - A Collins: Are they? Would someone like to update us?
2209/02/2016, 11:55 - H Carter: To confirm sorry Johann, is that a yes a meeting is taking place or yes this is a cheap attempt to weaken action tomorrow?
2309/02/2016, 11:56 - A Sami: Kitty is right. I remember niw that Johann had a midnight chat with Dalton and they agreed to chat but on the basis it does not affect tomorrow's action.
2409/02/2016, 14:00 - A Borbora: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35531115
2509/02/2016, 14:02 - A Sami: " the British Medical Association put forward a proposal that would have seen doctors' basic pay rise by about half the 11% offered by ministers in return for Saturday not to be treated as a normal working day."
2609/02/2016, 14:38 - A Borbora: Negs subcommittee  please can you check your email and fill in the doodle poll about the forthcoming meeting? Thanks!!
2709/02/2016, 15:40 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
2809/02/2016, 16:29 - A Sami: NEWS Score of 10!
29
30I am smelling a rat!
31
32BBC was telling us that they were covering Hull and the BMA office were all over the place place to make sure all in place.
33
34Now, the BBC is shifting attention from big hospitals to smaller ones in the region!
35
36I have just done a interview and the reporter told me that they are changing the focus!
37
38Is JH applying pressure? Does the government want to play the game and show smaller numbers in a smaller hospitals?
39
40Same in South Yorkshire. No Sheffield in the morning  reps were told. DGHs!
4109/02/2016, 16:33 - Z Greaves: Missed bumping into you by about half an hr by the looks of it LJD
4209/02/2016, 16:57 - A Collins: BBC Scotland want me to go on Scotland 2016 tonight and talk about the SG recruitment drive. Does anyone have any preformed ideas about the show? And doesn't anyone have the ooh contact for media team?
4309/02/2016, 17:08 - A Collins: Turned down on press office's advice! Apparently creates internal shcism
4409/02/2016, 17:08 - A Collins: Lol
4509/02/2016, 17:36 - C Sheridan: How did the offer come to you Adam? Probably best not to on the eve of IA in England...
46
47I've already done a (BMA sanctioned) press statement relating this as well
4809/02/2016, 18:02 - A Collins: Came to a friend of mine who forwarded it on, BBC Scotland had contacted media medics looking for a Jr Doc.
4909/02/2016, 18:02 - A Collins: Someone Scottish from England is going apparently, so they were excited for an Englishman from Scotland, but I told them I have to work.
5009/02/2016, 18:48 - J Malawana: Can everyone check their email in 5 minutes.
5109/02/2016, 19:15 - J Malawana: If everyone can check their emails and respond on there that would be helpful
5209/02/2016, 19:39 - L J Davis: Look the listserver! We used it! I remember that!
5309/02/2016, 20:06 - A Yassaee: Is there likely to be further developments tomorrow? I.e. would you like us to be free in the afternoon /evening?
5409/02/2016, 22:09 - K Mohan: EJD have just published this.
5509/02/2016, 22:09 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
5609/02/2016, 22:11 - D Rouse: Next time the sun run a moet medic thing
5709/02/2016, 22:11 - D Rouse: Remind them I'm in a weatherspoons in Milton Keynes as only place to get something to eat
5809/02/2016, 22:12 - M Redman: Nice work kitty
5909/02/2016, 22:12 - D Rouse: So I can get to pocket at 7 am to help set up
6009/02/2016, 22:15 - D Rouse: Do love that there are ppl discussing the strike tho
6109/02/2016, 22:18 - M Redman: (David I went to tescos last night and saw a cat that looked like blue chillaxing and purring outside main entrance and tried to get a photo but then the security guard came out and Startled me)
6209/02/2016, 22:18 - D Rouse: Lol
6309/02/2016, 22:18 - D Rouse: It might be him. Wouldn't surprise me
6409/02/2016, 22:18 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
6509/02/2016, 22:18 - D Rouse: Just before I left tonight
6609/02/2016, 22:23 - C Castles: Hugh Pym still doesn't seem to understand the weekend mortality numbers
6709/02/2016, 22:23 - L J Davis: Just as well Rory vomited on johanns jacket after the bbc interview...
6809/02/2016, 22:25 - D Rouse: Lol
6909/02/2016, 22:36 - C Sheridan: Good luck again all tomorrow, break a leg etc. Scotland loves you all! ??
7009/02/2016, 23:06 - A Sami: Thank you, Scotland ?
71
72Question!
73
74If you have got a choice between a pre-recorded interview and live one, whoch do you choose and why? (Pros and cons)
7509/02/2016, 23:10 - A Borbora: Pre-rec every time
7609/02/2016, 23:10 - A Borbora: For me at least as you can redo something if you make a mistake
7709/02/2016, 23:10 - A Borbora: I find live quite stressful but with pre-rec you can do lots of takes
7809/02/2016, 23:12 - D Rouse: I like live as the presenter can be as thrown as u sometimes
7909/02/2016, 23:18 - A Collins: I'd prefer live as you know what's going to go out.
8009/02/2016, 23:19 - A Borbora: That isn't always a good thing!
8109/02/2016, 23:19 - A Collins: Haha true. But for the control freaks amongst us...
8209/02/2016, 23:20 - A Collins: I'd be so worried doing a pre rec and then waiting! Tbf I've never done either so what do I know (but when has that ever stopped me having an opinion)
8309/02/2016, 23:22 - A Sami: Thank you, all.
84
85This is the thing, live, what you say is what people hear. Pre-record, you can re-do if needed.
86
87I have got an agressive, extreme devil-advocate presenter tomorrow who wants to pre-record but happy with live if cannot make it in time.
8809/02/2016, 23:28 - C Castles: Have we any particular hashtags we're pushing for tomorrow?
8909/02/2016, 23:28 - A Collier I'd go with live. With practice you can better control to interview. Happy to runt through questions with you for prep.
9009/02/2016, 23:29 - C Castles: And I dont like doing pre-recorded or live interviews
9109/02/2016, 23:30 - A Sami: Andrew, 
92This is going to be very hepful! I would like to take you up on that offer please.
93
94I know, Connan!
9509/02/2016, 23:31 - A Collier Sure happy to do that whenever is good for you
9609/02/2016, 23:31 - A Sami: The interview planned for 16:30 tomorrow (pre-record) but the live will be 18:30.
9709/02/2016, 23:33 - C Castles: Anyone? Hashtags?
9809/02/2016, 23:35 - A Sami: #topre-recordornottopre-cord ??
9909/02/2016, 23:35 - C Castles: Thanks amjad
10009/02/2016, 23:36 - C Castles: Though it maybe doesn't quite fit the tone of what I was intending
10109/02/2016, 23:36 - A Sami: I think there is an established #doctorsstrike
10209/02/2016, 23:44 - K Mohan: Isn't it #juniordoctorsstrike
10309/02/2016, 23:46 - A Sami: Yeah, that one as well
10409/02/2016, 23:47 - K Mohan: Is it tv or radio, Amjad? I much much prefer live radio. TV less fussed. Pre-record can work nicely if they literally want a soundbite and you have a sympathetic journalist (Victoria McDonald is good to do pre-records with) but if not so sympathetic I thjnk live helps you control the message easier.
10509/02/2016, 23:48 - A Sami: TV, Kitty. BBC Look North East Yorkshire. Peter Levy.
10609/02/2016, 23:48 - K Mohan: Good luck with it btw! We have LBC at st Thomas at some unearthly hour with the NHS singers tomorrow.
10709/02/2016, 23:48 - K Mohan: Nice. :)
10809/02/2016, 23:49 - C Castles: Was it #junioraction?
10909/02/2016, 23:52 - A Sami: This is what happened in the last strike
110https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=intent://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGjIan8GsmhA%23Intent%3Bscheme%3Dhttp%3Bpackage%3Dcom.google.android.youtube%3BS.browser_fallback_url%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.co.uk%252Fsearchurl%252Fr.html%2523app%253Dcom.google.android.youtube%2526pingbase%253Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.co.uk%252F%2526url%253Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fm.youtube.com%252Fwatch%253Fv%25253DGjIan8GsmhA%3BS.android.intent.extra.REFERRER_NAME%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.co.uk%3BlaunchFlags%3D0x8080000%3Bend&ved=0ahUKEwid5KCA8OvKAhUJIpoKHQeuATQQwGkIGzAA&usg=AFQjCNFghu8j6fOD1mYjBBOqH_t2PoWbsw
11109/02/2016, 23:53 - A Sami: 03:20 if you are rushed
11210/02/2016, 06:20 - M Redman: Amjad following look norths 'selective' use of clips last time I'd go for live
11310/02/2016, 06:21 - M Redman: If you're comfortable to, that is
11410/02/2016, 07:06 - L J Davis: That url doesn't work :(
11510/02/2016, 07:08 - A Sami: Thank you, Melody. I think you are right. I will go with live.
116
117LJD, Google Kishan Ress vs Peter Levy (or the other way round)
11810/02/2016, 07:51 - L J Davis: Live. 
119That was a difficult interview; doing things by a link is always harder, but it made him sound as if he was interrupting, etc.
12010/02/2016, 07:54 - L J Davis: He didn't using 'pausing' tactics, either... Reflect the question back without agreeing, consider, etc.
12110/02/2016, 07:56 - A Collier Amjad when do you want to practice?
12210/02/2016, 07:57 - A Collier I suspected that you would be up against Peter, hence my offer. It won't be an easy interview (though that chap Kishna made a right hash of the last one).
12310/02/2016, 08:00 - A Borbora: I'm live on BBC merseyside in 5
124Then bbc northwest Tv
125??
12610/02/2016, 08:07 - L J Davis: I misread Andrew's msg as "amjad *where* do you want to practice" 
127Like this could be a regionally career ending interview!!! Bit over dramatic! Just as well I re-read ??
12810/02/2016, 08:08 - L J Davis: Latifa on breakfast in a mo?
12910/02/2016, 08:08 - L J Davis: & bbc in Scunthorpe, david. How's your banner?
13010/02/2016, 08:13 - L J Davis: Same shift Friday, Saturday & Sunday... Go Latifa!!!
13110/02/2016, 08:17 - A Collier Chris Hobson (NHS providers) on R4 Today has just used the phrase "it's time for a full and final settlement" and if refused then JH should look to impose.
13210/02/2016, 08:18 - L J Davis: That is one of the best interviews on telly
13310/02/2016, 08:19 - D Rouse: Banners amazing
13410/02/2016, 08:20 - T Crocker-Buque: Good interview from Dr Gregory (?) at Romford - made the guy from NHS Providers sounds creepy and threatening. Did the BMA train him?
13510/02/2016, 08:52 - A Yassaee: Early, anecdotal reports on turnout?
13610/02/2016, 08:56 - K Mohan: He's deputy chair of BOTA. Simon is very clued into the BMA as I understand.
13710/02/2016, 08:57 - A Borbora: A little less than last time but it's early
13810/02/2016, 08:57 - A Borbora: Heard of a few people deciding to go to work. Only a handful but I heard of none last time
13910/02/2016, 08:57 - A Borbora: All picketers motivated
14010/02/2016, 08:57 - A Collins: Big love guys. Ward round just over here. Hope today goes well
14110/02/2016, 08:58 - A Borbora: We are hoping the sun will visit peter's picket at the Royal Liverpool as they seem to like photographing him so much
14210/02/2016, 08:59 - B Roberts: Who's on R4 now? Praising MMC?!
14310/02/2016, 09:02 - B Roberts: Have to say that the argument about not being about pay is wearing thin and sounds insincere. I don't see anything wrong with saying that it IS about pay but it's about not cutting it rather than asking for more money.
14410/02/2016, 09:15 - D Rouse: Going to be on daily politics
14510/02/2016, 09:15 - A Collins: Woop! Get us a link for later :)
14610/02/2016, 09:43 - Z Greaves: I thought that Gregory's argument that it's not about pay but that paying us less for weekends encourages employers to spread the same number of workers more thinly was quite strong actually
14710/02/2016, 10:48 - A Yassaee: Pay can be made well, but we're probably going to have to talk about medical school applicants coming down, F2s leaving etc.
14810/02/2016, 10:48 - A Yassaee: Argument on pay*
14910/02/2016, 11:01 - B Roberts: I meant the person who was on R4 just before 9am - "MMC was amazing and it's not about pay". Clearly I'm paraphrasing but some people can argue this well and some people can't. The argument should be that it's about preventing the erosion of existing T&Cs which someone made well on R4 and someone didn't!
15010/02/2016, 11:08 - H Carter: Rouse you're the 'head of junior doctors at the BMA' apparently
15110/02/2016, 11:30 - M Redman: Has  imposition been announced
15210/02/2016, 11:32 - H Carter: Not that I'm aware of
15310/02/2016, 11:33 - C Castles: Had you heard something melody?
15410/02/2016, 11:34 - M Redman: Nope just skimming emails and saw 'just heard/saw about imposition'
15510/02/2016, 11:34 - M Redman: And I just wanted to check
15610/02/2016, 11:40 - J Malawana: Rouse finally undertook the coup he's been threatening
15710/02/2016, 11:40 - J Malawana: :-)
15810/02/2016, 11:41 - D Rouse: Just done daily politics and bbc news
15910/02/2016, 11:41 - D Rouse: Sorry johann I did say I was deputy chair
16010/02/2016, 11:41 - J Malawana: He has requested that we all refer to him as sexy beast from now on
16110/02/2016, 11:41 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
16210/02/2016, 11:41 - A Sami: Hull Royal
16310/02/2016, 11:45 - A Sami: Andrew
16410/02/2016, 11:46 - B Roberts: Contract will be imposed if there is no agreement by the middle of this month - heard on the R4 news (at 11am I think).
16510/02/2016, 11:49 - A Sami: Andrew,
166
167Yes, please! (I have just seen your message)
168
169I can do 12:00 - 13:00
170
171Or 15:00- 16:00
172
173They want to pre-record at 16:30. I might push for live 18:30
17410/02/2016, 11:58 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
17510/02/2016, 12:01 - M Redman: That's amazing
17610/02/2016, 12:01 - M Redman: You have your own meme
17710/02/2016, 12:02 - D Rouse: Was it okay did anyone see it
17810/02/2016, 13:01 - Z Greaves: 36 juniors standing for council as far as I can count!! Good turnout :)
17910/02/2016, 13:02 - Z Greaves: More than any other BoP
18010/02/2016, 13:21 - K Mohan: So what % of juniors are striking?
18110/02/2016, 13:22 - A Collins: Excellent at Hull!
18210/02/2016, 13:23 - K Mohan: Huh?
18310/02/2016, 13:23 - A Collins: Just commenting on  the photo, sorry
18410/02/2016, 13:28 - K Mohan: Aha. :)
18510/02/2016, 13:41 - K Mohan: so sarah and i were apparently on itv agitating st thomas folk to chant.
18610/02/2016, 13:47 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
18710/02/2016, 14:41 - D Tooth: Someone on GP trainees has forwarded a bbc quote of 43% Sig reduced from last time. 
188Yes imposition announced if no agreement by middle of month,  ? Monday as the 15 Feb
18910/02/2016, 14:47 - A Yassaee: 3pm coming up. What was our official repl?
19010/02/2016, 14:49 - Z Greaves: Yes 43% all over the Beeb, what was the number last time? I seem to remember it being thirty something?
19110/02/2016, 14:54 - A Yassaee: 38
19210/02/2016, 14:56 - Z Greaves: Johann - what time are you heading north this evening?
19310/02/2016, 14:56 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
19410/02/2016, 14:56 - C Castles: Good point Arrash - what reply have we sent to Dalton?
19510/02/2016, 14:56 - A Borbora: Not much different then and tallies with the anecdotal experience of a few people going into work. Still while some pickets were diminished support is strong
19610/02/2016, 15:06 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Was it not 38 percent in work? 43 per cent now is fine...surely its within the margin of error for this kind of thing.
19710/02/2016, 15:09 - D Tooth: Yes I think Yannis is right
19810/02/2016, 15:10 - A Yassaee: +/- 10% easily a rota blip
19910/02/2016, 15:11 - A Yassaee: Yeah Yannis, that's what I meant
20010/02/2016, 15:14 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ah yes. Hadnt seen ur msg.
20110/02/2016, 18:19 - C Castles: Does anyone have the email handy that had the links to the papers with how we got to this point, and what isn't agreed? Can't find them in my inbox for some reason.
20210/02/2016, 18:22 - A Sami: What the dispute is about:
203https://www.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/working%20for%20change/contract%20negotiations%202015/2016/briefings%20-%20jan/junior%20doctors%20ia%20briefing%20-%20what%20the%20dispute%20is%20about.pdf
204 
205What couldn’t be agreed:
206https://www.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/working%20for%20change/contract%20negotiations%202015/2016/briefings%20-%20jan/junior%20doctors%20ia%20briefing%20%20what%20couldnt%20be%20agreed.pdf
20710/02/2016, 18:23 - A Sami: Is this what you are after, Connan?
20810/02/2016, 18:23 - A Collins: Do you want to matrix again?
20910/02/2016, 18:23 - A Collins: Not sure I can find it on my phone but someone else might
21010/02/2016, 18:42 - A Yassaee: Did anyone see the Patients association trustee who said that there can't (shouldn't) be an imposition on juniors?
21110/02/2016, 18:42 - D Rouse: Yeah.  But also one said innlondon evening standard there should be one
21210/02/2016, 18:45 - D Rouse: The letter from dalton has been put online
21310/02/2016, 18:46 - J Malawana: We have put out the letter and a response to hunt from me offering him our counter offer.
21410/02/2016, 18:46 - A Yassaee: Link?
21510/02/2016, 18:47 - L J Davis: One profession page...
21610/02/2016, 18:48 - D Rouse: Haha. East of England are on it tonight. First group to comment.
21710/02/2016, 18:48 - A Borbora: Mersey been discussing since 1836 ??
21810/02/2016, 18:48 - D Rouse: Damn
21910/02/2016, 18:49 - D Rouse: News travels fast in Liverpool
22010/02/2016, 18:49 - D Rouse: Smoke signals ;-)
22110/02/2016, 18:49 - A Borbora: I know - they knew about it before I did! Slightly embarrassing to be asked about a letter I thought was confidential!
22210/02/2016, 18:53 - J Malawana: http://oneprofession.bma.org.uk
22310/02/2016, 18:58 - A Collins: Johann, can I tell Dan on list that exec were asked to comment on the offer letter last night and explain that the response on one profession is the outcome of that?
22410/02/2016, 19:05 - C Castles: Thank you amjad
22510/02/2016, 19:17 - J Malawana: Yes Adam.
22610/02/2016, 19:24 - A Sami: Shit!!!!!
227
228I am so sorry everyone!!!
229
230I was trying to help and send the grid to Connan, and because I could not find his email on my saved list, O sent it to him on NRJDC listserver!!!
231
232I am so sorry for this!!??
23310/02/2016, 19:25 - A Borbora: Lol we all make IT howlers!
23410/02/2016, 19:27 - A Sami: I could have sent it on the Exec listserver!!!!
235
236I am so incredibly sorry!
23710/02/2016, 19:28 - A Collins: What's NRJDC?
23810/02/2016, 19:28 - A Collins: And lol.
23910/02/2016, 19:28 - A Sami: National and Regional Chairs
24010/02/2016, 19:29 - D Rouse: We've sent what where sorry?
24110/02/2016, 19:30 - D Rouse: Amjad I am sure it was completely accidental
24210/02/2016, 19:32 - A Sami: David, it was the grid of what is agreed and what is not agreed. The highly confidential one. THE ONE!
243
244I am so sorry for the stupid mistake everyone!
24510/02/2016, 19:35 - A Borbora: It's an accident
24610/02/2016, 19:35 - A Borbora: Forget it
24710/02/2016, 19:38 - A Borbora: The vein doc (whoever that is) is reporting juniors tweets to the gmc?!
24810/02/2016, 19:39 - L J Davis: Oh dear. I did try to remind people about the whole social media thing...
24910/02/2016, 19:41 - A Borbora: The guy sounds like a crank though? Dunno as i don't tweet
25010/02/2016, 19:42 - J Malawana: Amjad a genuine mistake is a genuine mistake. It will no doubt cause some problems but compared to some of the shit I have the deal with, it's minor. Deliberate shit stirring is always what I actually get massively hacked off by.
25110/02/2016, 19:43 - J Malawana: Today was good. Everyone deserves a stiff drink.
25210/02/2016, 19:43 - D Rouse: Johann
25310/02/2016, 19:43 - D Rouse: Beaten you to that suggestion
25410/02/2016, 19:43 - J Malawana: I only realised when Zoe messaged that I was meant to be going north. Am really late Zoe
25510/02/2016, 19:46 - D Rouse: Do not forget Valentine's Day this Sunday Johann
25610/02/2016, 19:48 - J Malawana: I didn't realise till you told me.
25710/02/2016, 19:49 - D Rouse: ??
25810/02/2016, 19:49 - D Rouse: ??
25910/02/2016, 19:49 - D Rouse: Dead Malawana walking
26010/02/2016, 19:49 - D Rouse: But I save you so it's fine
26110/02/2016, 19:49 - J Malawana: Sarah is amazing and fine.
26210/02/2016, 19:49 - D Rouse: She wil be with some nice perfume
26310/02/2016, 19:50 - D Rouse: A card
26410/02/2016, 19:50 - D Rouse: Some flowers
26510/02/2016, 19:50 - J Malawana: All she cares about is me getting out of this job
26610/02/2016, 19:50 - D Rouse: And some Johann lurrrrrve
26710/02/2016, 19:50 - J Malawana: That's her biggest present.
26810/02/2016, 19:50 - D Rouse: ????????????????????????
26910/02/2016, 19:51 - J Malawana: She keeps telling me I should have done option 1.
27010/02/2016, 19:51 - J Malawana: She maybe right.
27110/02/2016, 19:51 - J Malawana: Anyway. What's done is done.
27210/02/2016, 19:51 - J Malawana: :-)
27310/02/2016, 19:51 - J Malawana: We both blame kitty.
27410/02/2016, 19:51 - D Rouse: Waiting for kittys typing
27510/02/2016, 19:52 - D Rouse: So could we
27610/02/2016, 19:52 - D Rouse: Referendum
27710/02/2016, 19:52 - D Rouse: Your new proposition
27810/02/2016, 19:52 - D Rouse: And the governments
27910/02/2016, 19:52 - D Rouse: Is that for exec list server
28010/02/2016, 19:52 - A Yassaee: Probably.
28110/02/2016, 19:53 - J Malawana: Exec listserver.
28210/02/2016, 19:53 - J Malawana: But let's wait and see
28310/02/2016, 19:53 - J Malawana: We have just stuck a massive grenade up their Arse.
28410/02/2016, 19:53 - J Malawana: Let's see what they do
28510/02/2016, 19:53 - J Malawana: They were likely to announce imposition at 10.30am tomorrow.
28610/02/2016, 19:54 - D Rouse: So bevan was right
28710/02/2016, 19:55 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
28810/02/2016, 19:55 - D Rouse: Much needed
28910/02/2016, 19:55 - A Yassaee: You and your swanky dinners.
29010/02/2016, 19:55 - D Rouse: Tonight yes for one as James has eaten a chinease
29110/02/2016, 19:56 - D Rouse: So I am dining alone after doing Valentine's Day shopping
29210/02/2016, 19:56 - L J Davis: Awh! Poor diva Moët!
29310/02/2016, 19:57 - L J Davis: I want one!!!
29410/02/2016, 19:57 - D Rouse: That genuinely could be my drag name
29510/02/2016, 19:57 - L J Davis: Isn't it?
29610/02/2016, 19:57 - D Rouse: Tonight on stage
297
298DIVA MOËT
29910/02/2016, 19:58 - L J Davis: Can you do that for the 20th? Distract everyone?
30010/02/2016, 19:58 - D Rouse: Hahaha
30110/02/2016, 19:58 - D Rouse: Change my name card
30210/02/2016, 19:58 - L J Davis: I can bring feathers
30310/02/2016, 19:58 - D Rouse: To diva moet
30410/02/2016, 19:59 - Lucy-Jane Davis changed the subject to “JDC exec”
30510/02/2016, 20:00 - D Rouse changed the subject to “Diva Moët's bitches”
30610/02/2016, 20:01 - D Rouse: :-Pl
30710/02/2016, 20:01 - D Rouse: ??
30810/02/2016, 20:05 - Z Greaves: Later is better johann - sounds like they fixed the gas leak around 6ish so should hopefully have got over the delays by the time your up here
30910/02/2016, 20:08 - Z Greaves: Sorry what grenade? Struggling to follow thread and my email is refusing to update without email
31010/02/2016, 20:11 - Z Greaves: *Wifi  (not email)
31110/02/2016, 20:21 - J Malawana: By reiterating that hunt refused a plan it makes him look incredibly unreasonable
31210/02/2016, 20:26 - A Yassaee: Feedback I've had from non-medics and politicos today is that the concept of us responding after an imposition isn't really coming out in the media.
313
314I don't know if this is a message we want to get out (do we even have time?) but thought I would flag it up.
31510/02/2016, 20:26 - A Yassaee: As in, that there would be further action in the event of an imposition.
31610/02/2016, 20:30 - J Malawana: Agree. So by getting in before he announced it makes him look like he has been unreasonable.
31710/02/2016, 20:30 - J Malawana: Well. Let's see
31810/02/2016, 20:35 - M Redman: I now have 21 orange bma vests in my house... wtheck
31910/02/2016, 21:01 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
32010/02/2016, 21:26 - J Malawana: Awe Melody
32110/02/2016, 21:43 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
32210/02/2016, 21:44 - A Collins: If anyone has a link, would. Love to see!
32310/02/2016, 21:44 - A Collier Awe Melody ??
32410/02/2016, 21:57 - A Collier <Media omitted>
32510/02/2016, 21:57 - A Collier Erm...can anyone explain this infographic to me?
32610/02/2016, 21:59 - A Collier I like the way we've cast off the tradition of an infographic making complex things easier to understand.
32710/02/2016, 22:00 - A Collier I know that it represents the components of pay but my goodness we've made it complicated.
32810/02/2016, 22:26 - Z Greaves: Why be shackled by tradition :P
32910/02/2016, 22:27 - Z Greaves: Took me about three attempts to understand it
33010/02/2016, 22:29 - Z Greaves: Also anyone followed the link on that breaking news text?  This is what I get :
33110/02/2016, 22:29 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
33210/02/2016, 22:29 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
33310/02/2016, 22:30 - Z Greaves: Broken perhaps, hardly breaking ...
33410/02/2016, 22:33 - A Yassaee: If it's difficult to understand chances are no minister can criticise it for being inaccurate. Masterstroke.
33510/02/2016, 22:42 - A Sami: Johann, thank you for your kind understanding and I am sorry for any problems this accidental leak will bring.
336
337Melody, thank you!
338
339Andrew, thank you. The practice today was very helpful ??
34010/02/2016, 22:44 - A Borbora: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35546369
34110/02/2016, 22:49 - A Collins: What the gopping feck are those squares?
34210/02/2016, 23:16 - J Malawana: Lol. Steven helped with those. They needed to politically minimise the visual impact of what we were proposing but also accurately represent what we did propose.
34310/02/2016, 23:17 - A Sami: I like the sliding of plain time to 08:00-20:00 featuring there!
344
345Strength in diversity!
34610/02/2016, 23:23 - J Malawana: Am currently still sitting on a train as someone jumped under the train in front.
34710/02/2016, 23:24 - A Collins: Have you not done a melo and offered counselling to the whole company?
34810/02/2016, 23:30 - J Malawana: I drank a double famous grouse and am ready to sleep.
34910/02/2016, 23:31 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
35010/02/2016, 23:51 - C Castles: Did Dalton jump under the train?
35111/02/2016, 08:56 - Lucy-Jane Davis changed the subject to “JDC Exec”
35211/02/2016, 09:13 - K Mohan: Can someone post the gist of JHs 1115 statement on here please if poss?
35311/02/2016, 09:13 - J Malawana: From yesterday?
35411/02/2016, 09:13 - J Malawana: BBC: The impasse is plainly an important and big one. When are you going to impose the contract?
355
356 
357
358JH: It doesn’t need to get to that and I really hope it doesn’t get to that. In the end we do have to have resolution on this as lots of people inside the NHS are now beginning to say. The door is open for discussions and I think what we are proposing is going to mean the vast majority of doctors don’t see their pay cut; in fact many of them will see their pay go up. But it will mean that we can offer better care for patients and surely that’s something we should be talking about, not taking this very damaging industrial action.
35911/02/2016, 09:16 - D Rouse: A lot of the posts were photos of the day
36011/02/2016, 09:18 - A Borbora: Radio 4 saying imposition today or tomorrow
36111/02/2016, 09:25 - T Crocker-Buque: I thought the presenters on Today sounded a bit confused and quite concerned about what imposition meant and if/when it would happen.
36211/02/2016, 09:29 - Z Greaves: Anyone seen or heard from Johann this morning - I have not been briefed to give the deans a contract update!! (Copmed)
36311/02/2016, 09:34 - J Malawana: Statement to the house at 11.15am
36411/02/2016, 09:40 - K Mohan: Isn't the statement at 11.15 today?
36511/02/2016, 09:40 - K Mohan: That's what I meant.
36611/02/2016, 09:42 - D Rouse: I thought Johann you were at copmed today
36711/02/2016, 09:43 - K Mohan: BBC and sky have contacted our juniors asking for reactions to the 11.15 announcement.
36811/02/2016, 09:43 - D Rouse: The BBC were outside st Thomas hospital
36911/02/2016, 09:43 - K Mohan: I'm just pushing everyone to speak to the media office as usual.
37011/02/2016, 09:43 - D Rouse: Think they're trying to get interviews
37111/02/2016, 09:48 - K Mohan: Yes will turner had told us that. They have asked him to find juniors for interview.
37211/02/2016, 09:49 - J Malawana: Tell juniors not to react.
37311/02/2016, 09:49 - J Malawana: Take their lead from us
37411/02/2016, 09:49 - K Mohan: So the press office is saying don't say anything. The juniors are very unhappy with this. They are likely to speak.
37511/02/2016, 09:50 - A Collins: Do we know what hes going to say? Do we suspect this is an announcement of imposition?
37611/02/2016, 09:51 - K Mohan: I've calmed some of them down but I'm on call in bloody Colindale today.
37711/02/2016, 09:52 - K Mohan: They want to know if can tell the producer from BBC that:
378
379That were awaiting an official response and review from jdc and Johann
38011/02/2016, 09:52 - K Mohan: Johann what do you think?
38111/02/2016, 10:20 - J Malawana: Sounds good
38211/02/2016, 10:32 - K Mohan: Great. I told them to do that 30 mins ago. :)
38311/02/2016, 10:36 - L J Davis: My Tim is on the fbgod and says everyone is going batshit crazy. Unsurprisingly. I'm not sure I can bring myself to look...
38411/02/2016, 10:37 - L J Davis: I'm going to the science museum. Instead. ??
38511/02/2016, 10:38 - J Malawana: It's almost a good thing that the government sees how angry people are.
38611/02/2016, 10:38 - L J Davis: "Almost"?
38711/02/2016, 10:38 - J Malawana: Whoever advised them to make an announcement the day after a strike is a fucking moron.
38811/02/2016, 10:39 - J Malawana: It depends how angry LJD :-)
38911/02/2016, 10:39 - L J Davis: Do you think JH takes advice?
39011/02/2016, 10:39 - J Malawana: Everyone is massively heated up by yesterday. Honestly the people on the otherside make some fucking crazy moves.
39111/02/2016, 10:40 - J Malawana: They just don't make sense.
39211/02/2016, 10:43 - C Castles: Oh, the cosmonaut exhibition at science museum is good Lucy Jane
39311/02/2016, 10:43 - L J Davis: You mean to excitement of solidarity for ppl who stood outside in the cold and had people telling them how much support they had, beeping horns, brownies delivered to picket lines? Heated? Yep
39411/02/2016, 10:43 - L J Davis: Johann, did Zoe find you?
39511/02/2016, 10:44 - Z Greaves: Yes we found each other- Johann did the contract update and is now on a train back to the south
39611/02/2016, 10:44 - L J Davis: Conan we may spend many hours in the basement with the interactive toddler boats... :(
397At least Nathan will be happy! And ice cream on the 4th floor ??
39811/02/2016, 10:45 - C Bell: So when are we releasing comms?
39911/02/2016, 10:49 - C Castles: Is the announcement changed to 12:15?
40011/02/2016, 10:50 - J Malawana: I was a bit firm with the deans :-). Time for them to stand up to Wendy.
40111/02/2016, 10:53 - C Bell: Are we releasing comms?
40211/02/2016, 11:28 - Z Greaves: It was spectacular and a bit scary - I was glad I wasn't a dean
40311/02/2016, 11:48 - K Mohan: They are debating something weird at the moment right?
40411/02/2016, 11:48 - K Mohan: Or am I listening to the wrong thing, :)
40511/02/2016, 11:49 - A Collins: the bbc website says they'er debating english votes for english laws
40611/02/2016, 11:49 - K Mohan: I'm kind of half listening. It's a bit of a stream of consciousness
40711/02/2016, 11:50 - C Castles: I think it's on after this business question section
40811/02/2016, 11:50 - A Yassaee: The MP currently speaking has a cracking beard
40911/02/2016, 11:50 - A Collins: Well it's quite early in the morning to talk about anything complicated
41011/02/2016, 11:50 - A Yassaee: Tidal power is a serious issue
41111/02/2016, 11:51 - A Collins: Are we not onto RIPA (ono) yet?
41211/02/2016, 11:52 - A Collier Ben Gummer has just sat down on the front bench
41311/02/2016, 11:52 - A Collier I guess he might make the announcement
41411/02/2016, 11:52 - A Collins: OMG if Gummer announces surely #huntmustgo
41511/02/2016, 11:52 - A Collins: ?
41611/02/2016, 11:52 - D Rouse: Lol
41711/02/2016, 11:52 - Z Greaves: So hunt isn't even going to make the statement himself?!?!
41811/02/2016, 11:53 - K Mohan: What are they talking about now?
41911/02/2016, 11:53 - D Rouse: OMG
42011/02/2016, 11:53 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
42111/02/2016, 11:53 - D Rouse: Really Wana scream
42211/02/2016, 11:53 - Z Greaves: #huntingforjeremy
42311/02/2016, 11:54 - K Mohan: The BBC want someone to speak to Hugh pym at 1400 apparently.
42411/02/2016, 11:54 - D Rouse: Surely that would be best being johann
42511/02/2016, 11:54 - A Collier Is our statement really to go?
42611/02/2016, 11:54 - A Collier No half measures.
42711/02/2016, 11:54 - C Castles: On now
42811/02/2016, 11:54 - K Mohan: I agree I'm just telling you all so someone can make that happen. :)
42911/02/2016, 11:54 - A Collier Must be as tough as can be
43011/02/2016, 11:55 - D Rouse: What channels it O what's being said
43111/02/2016, 11:55 - D Rouse: Someone give a commentary
43211/02/2016, 11:55 - A Collins: Hunt has arrived
43311/02/2016, 11:56 - K Mohan: He's talking about us, Andrew. :)
43411/02/2016, 11:56 - C Castles: Bbc parliament
43511/02/2016, 11:56 - C Castles: He's giving the background at the minute
43611/02/2016, 11:56 - A Collins: He's misleading the house is what he's fecking doing.
43711/02/2016, 11:56 - A Collins: AGAIN
43811/02/2016, 11:57 - D Rouse: Got it on
43911/02/2016, 11:57 - Z Greaves: Keep the commentary coming ...
44011/02/2016, 11:57 - A Collins: Sir david wrote to me to tell me that there is not a negotiated settlement realisitic
44111/02/2016, 11:58 - C Castles: He's now saying what the contract will have
44211/02/2016, 11:58 - A Collins: he and HS leaders have asked fo rpeople to end uncertainty
44311/02/2016, 11:58 - A Collins: "I have decided today to do that"
44411/02/2016, 11:58 - D Tooth: We are watching it in GP trainees committee
44511/02/2016, 11:58 - A Collins: yeah, we're awting in SJDC
44611/02/2016, 11:58 - C Castles: He's trying to set us against the rest of the public sector now
44711/02/2016, 11:59 - A Collins: It sounds like they will use the Dalton plan
44811/02/2016, 11:59 - A Collins: And he's just set us against the rest of the public sector on saturday pay
44911/02/2016, 12:00 - A Collins: 3/4 of doctors will see a pay rise
45011/02/2016, 12:00 - C Castles: Weekend mortality again
45111/02/2016, 12:00 - A Collins: no trainee in contracted hours will have pay cut
45211/02/2016, 12:00 - A Collins: but it will be pay neutral
45311/02/2016, 12:00 - A Collins: #maths #wanker
45411/02/2016, 12:00 - D Tooth: 13.5% base pay rise
45511/02/2016, 12:01 - A Collins: process of negs has uncoveredwider and more deep seated issues
45611/02/2016, 12:02 - A Collins: issues: leave, no notice, lack of support
45711/02/2016, 12:02 - Z Greaves: No kidding
45811/02/2016, 12:02 - A Collins: Asked pres of academy of royal colleges to do a review about it
45911/02/2016, 12:02 - A Collins: Lying about mortality rates again
46011/02/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: "no Health Sec could ignore the evidence" blah blach fucking blah
46111/02/2016, 12:03 - Z Greaves: Now playing at Copmed
46211/02/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: "we've committed 10 million quid to the NHS"
46311/02/2016, 12:03 - C Castles: Go Heidi
46411/02/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: PRICK
46511/02/2016, 12:03 - C Castles: Ten billion Adam
46611/02/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: OH HELLO HEIDI
46711/02/2016, 12:04 - L J Davis: I'm not watching but enjoying 2nd hand!
46811/02/2016, 12:04 - A Yassaee: "A 5 day a health secretary would be nice"
46911/02/2016, 12:04 - A Collins: "DEEPLY DUBIOUS MISREPRESENTATION of mortality
47011/02/2016, 12:05 - A Collins: He's geting a right telling off from the headmistress now
47111/02/2016, 12:05 - A Collins: I've just noticed there's feck all people in the chamber
47211/02/2016, 12:05 - C Castles: This will destroy morale
47311/02/2016, 12:05 - L J Davis: Thousands of juniors watching tho...
47411/02/2016, 12:05 - A Collins: one of the NHS Chiefs who signed the letter has tweeted "I have supported that the offer is reasonable, I have not supported it being imposed"
47511/02/2016, 12:06 - A Yassaee: That is good news.
47611/02/2016, 12:08 - C Castles: She's calling him on the weekend mortality rates
47711/02/2016, 12:08 - D Tooth: This is a disaster
47811/02/2016, 12:08 - A Collins: Chris has stoppedus watching at school, but I do hope people keep filling us in please
47911/02/2016, 12:08 - C Castles: And suggesting this imposition could risk the consultant negs
48011/02/2016, 12:09 - C Castles: Wales have tweeted they won't impose
48111/02/2016, 12:09 - C Castles: Sturgeon has apparently said again Scotland won't impose
48211/02/2016, 12:10 - C Castles: Though those weren't mentioned in this speech, it's just on twitter
48311/02/2016, 12:10 - C Castles: Hunt is trying to blame labour for the problems as they negotiated previous contacts
48411/02/2016, 12:13 - C Castles: Hunt is just talking general crap again
48511/02/2016, 12:13 - C Castles: Ken Clarke agrees with hunt
48611/02/2016, 12:14 - C Castles: And he's claiming the extra money to the NHS will just get spent on doctors bonuses
48711/02/2016, 12:16 - C Castles: Dr philippa Whitford from snp correcting the lies about weekend mortality
48811/02/2016, 12:17 - L J Davis: ?? whitford
48911/02/2016, 12:17 - L J Davis: Why is Adam at school?
49011/02/2016, 12:17 - A Collins: SJDC
49111/02/2016, 12:17 - A Collins: Chris is the headteacher of Scotland
49211/02/2016, 12:18 - L J Davis: Oh. I wondered
49311/02/2016, 12:18 - A Collins: We watched the annoucnement but we're not allowed to watch "Heidi Hits Back"
49411/02/2016, 12:21 - C Castles: Sarah Wollaston now hoping juniors see how good the contract really is
49511/02/2016, 12:21 - A Collins: ??
49611/02/2016, 12:23 - C Castles: Labour pointing out latest recruitment numbers
49711/02/2016, 12:23 - B Roberts: She ought to know better.
49811/02/2016, 12:23 - C Sheridan: Adam stop distracting me I'm trying to run a meeting!
49911/02/2016, 12:24 - C Castles: Basically it's just turning in to conservatives support hunt, everyone else doesnt
50011/02/2016, 12:25 - C Castles: There is a lot of talk about juniors morale, and this review in to it
50111/02/2016, 12:27 - L J Davis: The new deal came in under a Tory gov, surely?
50211/02/2016, 12:27 - L J Davis: Might be quite important to mention...
50311/02/2016, 12:28 - C Castles: Now various old conservatives are talking about when they were in hospital
50411/02/2016, 12:28 - A Yassaee: He wants to build trust. Bit late J-dawg
50511/02/2016, 12:29 - C Castles: Hunt now admitting that seven day services need more than just doctors
50611/02/2016, 12:33 - C Castles: Labour mp pointed out bma had offered a cost neutral solution
50711/02/2016, 12:34 - A Yassaee: Yannis being quoted lol
50811/02/2016, 12:37 - A Collier LBC have just asked me to do an interview with them...but there is a twist...
50911/02/2016, 12:37 - A Yassaee: How dare we ballot before talking to Jeremy. We are very very naughty doctors.
51011/02/2016, 12:37 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Arrash who am i being quoted by and where?
51111/02/2016, 12:38 - A Collier Jeremy is going to be interviewed immediately before me and the producer is trying to engineer me putting a surprise question to him
51211/02/2016, 12:38 - A Yassaee: The austerity comment.
51311/02/2016, 12:38 - A Collier If it comes off what should I ask?
51411/02/2016, 12:38 - L J Davis: Ooh.
51511/02/2016, 12:38 - Y Gourtsouyannis: By who arrash? Hunt meister
51611/02/2016, 12:38 - L J Davis: Sorry. Not ooh as in out of hours. As in gosh, how exciting!
51711/02/2016, 12:38 - A Yassaee: No some nobody with a horrible tie
51811/02/2016, 12:39 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha
51911/02/2016, 12:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: We have to kick this whole thing off
52011/02/2016, 12:40 - J Malawana: The statement on the listserver
52111/02/2016, 12:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Anyway. Look forward to watching whole thing latr tday. C ya
52211/02/2016, 12:40 - J Malawana: Along with transcript of what was said by hunt
52311/02/2016, 12:41 - L J Davis: To JH; how does he think imposing a contract on 60k hard working Drs is going to improve his chances of leadership?
52411/02/2016, 12:46 - A Yassaee: The latest survey of doxtors [insert numbers] of doctors are expected to leave the profession following the imposition of the contract. What plans does the SoS have to replace them?
52511/02/2016, 12:46 - A Collier We've prerecorded two questions. What would the Secretary of State say to the 50,000 junior doctors who may now chose to leave the country rather than work under the terms of his contract?
52611/02/2016, 12:47 - A Collier And, if large number of highly trained juniors now leave the NHS because of his reckless actions how will he replace them?
52711/02/2016, 12:47 - A Yassaee: The former won't achieve anything. He'll talk about the BMA misleading them.
52811/02/2016, 12:48 - A Yassaee: I'd merge them. There is a slim chance he may accuse them of lying. Or at least it'll give line of questioning for further interviews.
52911/02/2016, 12:55 - B Roberts: Andrew, stop tweeting bad stuff about GPs!
53011/02/2016, 12:56 - B Roberts: They are dividing us to conquer us.
53111/02/2016, 12:56 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
53211/02/2016, 12:56 - A Collier It's not bad, I've just asking why psych isn't valued by the Secretary of State?
53311/02/2016, 12:57 - D Rouse: Bethan he hasn't said anything bad. It is levelled at the SOS not Gp. The same comparison could be made re EM trainees
53411/02/2016, 12:57 - D Tooth: It looks very bad
53511/02/2016, 12:57 - A Collier Sadly Arash we've recorded them now. It was a rush to get it ready for them.
53611/02/2016, 12:58 - D Rouse: I think you should ask about recruitment and retention of GP EM psych, and paeds and how they expect to keep junior doctors from leaving
53711/02/2016, 12:59 - A Collier NROC arrangements haven't changed. Our working arrangements will so massively impact on pay that psychiatry will have even worse recruitment than now.
53811/02/2016, 13:00 - A Collier 5% NROC plus RRP will result in psychiatry and other NROC groups won't come close to the GP arrangements.
53911/02/2016, 13:00 - A Collier I'm now genuinely worried about the future of psychiatry training
54011/02/2016, 13:00 - D Rouse: And EM
54111/02/2016, 13:00 - D Rouse: Lol
54211/02/2016, 13:04 - A Collier Just in case anyone doesn't follow me on Twitter (why wouldn't you?!?) the tweet Bethan mentioned is:
54311/02/2016, 13:04 - A Collier New #juniorcontract proposes  £8000 recruitment incentive for GP & less than £2000 for psychiatry. So much for parity of esteem @rcpsych
54411/02/2016, 13:04 - Z Greaves: Andrew ask: how he's going to safely staff wards mon to Friday with the workforce spread more thinly
54511/02/2016, 13:06 - A Yassaee: NROC is essentially now the zero hours contract of the profession.
54611/02/2016, 13:06 - A Collier That's a very good way of putting it
54711/02/2016, 13:07 - B Roberts: Perhaps I'm more inclined to see that as negative towards GP trainees in these fraught times but I see what you're saying about maintaining parity across all specialties.
54811/02/2016, 13:07 - A Yassaee: Am I being naive or can we blow it up as a bigger issue - is there anything that stops them rostering reserve doctors to be brought in if the trust is about to breach?
54911/02/2016, 13:07 - B Roberts: Ooh, Arrash, that's totally captured the sentiment.
55011/02/2016, 13:07 - B Roberts: The zero hours, I mean.
55111/02/2016, 13:08 - D Rouse: Everyone
55211/02/2016, 13:08 - D Rouse: There is a protest being planned tonight
55311/02/2016, 13:08 - D Rouse: I am guna let the media office know as
55411/02/2016, 13:08 - D Rouse: I don't think they're aware
55511/02/2016, 13:11 - K Mohan: Where?
55611/02/2016, 13:11 - A Yassaee: DH i think....
55711/02/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: Kitty
55811/02/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: See your email
55911/02/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: I have emailed
56011/02/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: Media office the officers and the chairs of north and south Thames Jdc
56111/02/2016, 13:14 - K Mohan: Huh?
56211/02/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: There are screenshots of the details
56311/02/2016, 13:14 - K Mohan: Ah the protest. Ok.
56411/02/2016, 13:20 - A Yassaee: I am down with the flu so can't join but make it a good one.
56511/02/2016, 13:21 - A Borbora: London thing? I'm talking to UNISON NW tonight
56611/02/2016, 13:46 - K Mohan: There's apparently an emergency protest in Manchester tonight too. But on FB only 12 people going .
56711/02/2016, 14:28 - L J Davis: James blunt on Twitter;
568I'm officially handing over my Cockney Rhyming title to @Jeremy_Hunt
569
570Lol!
57111/02/2016, 14:44 - A Collins: Hahaha
57211/02/2016, 15:02 - D Tooth: Are we going to have an emergency exec, do we need one?
57311/02/2016, 15:05 - H Carter: BMA GP leader?
57411/02/2016, 15:05 - H Carter: <Media omitted>
57511/02/2016, 15:17 - T Crocker-Buque: Are we planning on setting a date for more IA?
57611/02/2016, 16:02 - A Yassaee: I have posted something on list about accompanying further IA days with indefinite work-to-rule.
57711/02/2016, 16:02 - A Yassaee: Would value thoughts
57811/02/2016, 16:05 - L J Davis: Think yes. Don't know if membership will *get* it, tho...
57911/02/2016, 16:15 - A Borbora: All the previous discussions we had was that it'd never work, and I'm tempted to agree. 
580What I think would work is organising some banding claims between now and August to at least give people some money and expose the problems
58111/02/2016, 16:16 - A Borbora: Once doctors are at work they work conscientiously and the idea of working to rule is probably worse to many than strikes
58211/02/2016, 16:39 - C Castles: Going on ni radio shortly, but think we've just been offered local negotiations
58311/02/2016, 16:39 - A Collins: Nice
58411/02/2016, 16:44 - D Tooth: Oh really Conan is that confirmed can I share with GP trainees subcommittee
58511/02/2016, 16:45 - Z Greaves: Well time for NI to start producing recruitment adverts too now then
58611/02/2016, 16:45 - Zoe changed the subject to “The War Room”
58711/02/2016, 16:47 - C Castles: BBC News | Junior doctors: Simon Hamilton wants to negotiate contract - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35548247?ocid=wsnews.chat-apps.in-app-msg.whatsapp.trial.link1_.auin
58811/02/2016, 16:48 - C Castles: I've just heard it through bbc, dont know much more than that yet
58911/02/2016, 16:49 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
59011/02/2016, 17:00 - D Rouse: Who diva Moët?
59111/02/2016, 17:13 - Z Greaves: My line of thinking was more churchillian - we will never never never surrender - but I'll take Thatcherism :P
59211/02/2016, 17:14 - A Collins: Why not both?!
59311/02/2016, 17:20 - A Collins: So, is Dalton coming to JDC to present this? 
594
595Would we be able to putting it to a ballot (I'm not asking for opinions on if we'd want to, but would there be any point if jdc said "this looks great")
59611/02/2016, 17:49 - Z Greaves: Apparently Heidi Alexander is actually a Durham alumni as well #girlcrush ??
59711/02/2016, 19:16 - A Yassaee: One interesting point about the LBC interview is Hunt explicitly says he won't sack doctors who don't accept the contract
59811/02/2016, 19:20 - A Collier I'm not sure he needs to sack juniors.
599
600The HEE fellows were asked for their opinion on the strategy "threaten to withdraw training numbers if trainees refuse to accept the new contract."
60111/02/2016, 19:21 - A Yassaee: Which fellow? Some of them are truly awful this year.
60211/02/2016, 19:21 - A Collier I'm not sure but know they were scoped out on this on Monday/Tursday
60311/02/2016, 19:21 - A Yassaee: Is removing a training number essentially sacking you as a specialist trainee?
60411/02/2016, 19:21 - A Collier *tuesday
60511/02/2016, 19:22 - A Collier I'm not sure if he precise mechanism they were considering, I think it was an abstract discussion
60611/02/2016, 19:22 - A Collier *of the precise
60711/02/2016, 19:24 - A Yassaee: Heard your Q too Andrew
60811/02/2016, 19:24 - A Yassaee: Hunt is seeming to call our bluff on the Australia thing.
60911/02/2016, 19:26 - D Rouse: Hmmmm
61011/02/2016, 20:39 - A Collier The NROC issue has become an issue (or at least I'm trying to make it one). Could we share/make public the safeguards they proposed?
61111/02/2016, 20:47 - A Yassaee: I'm sorry for posting again, and Andrew you have probably explained this to me - but can i clarify 
612
613Is there anything that stops them using NROC in specialties that do not currently have it in prder to enable rostering reserve doctors to be brought in if the trust is about to breach?
61411/02/2016, 20:47 - A Collier Put simply, no.
61511/02/2016, 20:48 - A Collier A form of words was floated during ACAS to try to ban that kind of thing but don't think it was agreed.
61611/02/2016, 20:48 - A Yassaee: As in nothing to stop them?
61711/02/2016, 20:49 - A Collier 1:5 stand by for everyone for ever for 5% of our salary.
61811/02/2016, 20:49 - A Yassaee: So why don't we blow that up now? As the worst case scenario in the contract
61911/02/2016, 20:50 - A Collier Until one of our negs team can tell us what the state of play was at the end of ACAS I don't think we can.
62011/02/2016, 20:50 - A Yassaee: There are lots of soundbites there and NROC trainees are probably the moet disenfranchised atm.
62111/02/2016, 20:50 - A Yassaee: Fair.
62211/02/2016, 20:50 - A Yassaee: A confirmation would be helpful. I can imagine that is a helpful line of questioning for journalists.
62311/02/2016, 20:55 - K Mohan: Agree Arrash. Andrew and I were discussing this today. To make matters worse, most NROC working trainees won't be working 1:4 so on a Saturday they will be at the plain time rate. Double hit.
62411/02/2016, 21:08 - A Yassaee: So - what's the line?
62511/02/2016, 21:08 - A Yassaee: The contract would allow DH to roster doctors for less than the minimum wage?
62611/02/2016, 21:09 - A Yassaee: Doctors could be on call for days straight?
62711/02/2016, 21:09 - A Yassaee: The zero hours contract of medicine?
62811/02/2016, 21:32 - A Sami: A suggestion from Yorkshire rep
629
630"I'd come out with a plan of escalating industrial action, starting after you've met on the 20th. 
631
632Gives the juniors hope that we're still fighting, increases pressure on the government and we can use the nine days to get the "we're trying to get a negotiated settlement but the government is ignoring doctors and trying to force this contract" message across. 
633Also keeps things fresh and feisty for the press"
63411/02/2016, 22:06 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Johann have u seen the post about u frm a former patient (mcgillarvy or some such). Thousands of likes on the fbgod. Good stuff. Exec check it out if u havnt
63511/02/2016, 22:07 - K Mohan: I particularly liked the bit where she said that until today she thought he was a consultant. HAHAHA.  :)
63611/02/2016, 22:08 - M Redman: Screen shot it
63711/02/2016, 22:09 - K Mohan: It's on yoyo's fb
63811/02/2016, 22:11 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
63911/02/2016, 22:14 - A Borbora: I can't find the exact words they proposed but they were to the effect that NROC was only to be used for clinical reasons not to provide backup cover for unexpected demand, sickness, rota gaps etc. 
640Cases of supposed shadow rotas to be referred to the guardian 
641
642I'll have a look later for the text
64311/02/2016, 22:14 - K Mohan: how many people were at the protests tonight?
64411/02/2016, 22:15 - A Collier I've just found the wording:
64511/02/2016, 22:16 - M Redman: ??????????
64611/02/2016, 22:16 - A Collier “Ghost” rotas
647
648We agree with you that these are inappropriate. We propose including in the contract the following wording:
649
650Where a doctor is required to work a night shift as part of a rota for a department or service, the employer will not in addition roster a second doctor working that same rota to be available non-resident on-call for the same night, unless there is a clear identified clinical reason agreed by the clinical director and the work pattern is agreed by the guardian as being safe and by the DME as being educationally appropriate. A trainee asked to work such a rota who feels that this is inappropriate will have the right to request a work schedule review.
65111/02/2016, 22:17 - A Collier That's from a text Johann sent to me a few weeks ago
65211/02/2016, 22:17 - A Borbora: There's an updated version somewhere
65311/02/2016, 22:18 - A Collier I strongly advised against agreeing to the version I was sent as it simply doesn't prevent ghost rotas.
65411/02/2016, 22:18 - A Borbora: I'll see if I can find it
65511/02/2016, 22:18 - A Collier Ghost rotas are one of the many reasons why % availability allowances will open us up to exploitation
65611/02/2016, 22:19 - J Malawana: No. And it didn't end up getting agreed I don't think. I can't remember. But they wouldn't do the wording I suggested back after talking to you
65711/02/2016, 22:19 - J Malawana: But I need to check
65811/02/2016, 22:20 - A Collier Whilst your on here Johann, what can we share on NROC hours limits?
65911/02/2016, 22:20 - A Collier Shaun Lintern is interested but I've not give him any of the detail yet.
66011/02/2016, 22:23 - D Tooth: What a day! Finally home. Johann, your patient brought a tear to my eye!
66111/02/2016, 22:25 - A Borbora: It's not in the ACAS summery - there were some emails from Jones about it. Not currently at my PC to check.
66211/02/2016, 22:27 - A Borbora: Sorry it is
66311/02/2016, 22:27 - A Borbora: "Contractual provision preventing these except where clinically required, safe and educationally approved, with further consideration as part of  the forward review. A trainee must never be rostered to be available non-resident on-call in order to provide cover in case of unexpected sickness or other absence, or in case of expected rota gaps. A senior trainee should not be substituted for a consultant non-resident on-call." Is down as agreed
66411/02/2016, 22:29 - J Malawana: I will check with Sam.
66511/02/2016, 22:34 - A Collier Clearly that still allows doctors to be called in if pressures exceed normal demands, though there are caveats.
66611/02/2016, 22:35 - A Collier Even if ghost rotas are banned, the hit on NROC workers is massive.
66711/02/2016, 22:45 - J Malawana: Obviously please don't share anything at all with Shaun lintern.
66811/02/2016, 22:46 - J Malawana: The press office and social media team have both been in touch to make sure we know we cannot share anything with Shaun lintern.
66911/02/2016, 22:46 - A Collier When/how are we going to address the unfinished NROC issues.
67011/02/2016, 22:47 - J Malawana: I refuse point blank to talk to or engage with Shaun lintern. The guy has been chasing me for 5 months.
67111/02/2016, 22:47 - A Collier I'm not planning on sharing anything with that particular unpleasant gentleman but the NROC stuff does need an airing.
67211/02/2016, 22:50 - L J Davis: Wow. They've managed to get juniors onto QT in west wales.
67311/02/2016, 22:51 - A Sami: Question Time in West Wales now on TV
6741st Question Who is wrong: 54K doctors of JH?
67511/02/2016, 22:51 - A Sami: LJD ??
67611/02/2016, 22:57 - L J Davis: Love for leann wood...
67711/02/2016, 22:58 - L J Davis: Hey! Poaching England's Drs!
67811/02/2016, 23:00 - L J Davis: & nurses are next...
67911/02/2016, 23:02 - B Roberts: Are there juniors in the audience?
68011/02/2016, 23:02 - L J Davis: I think so...
68111/02/2016, 23:06 - C Castles: In NI, we've got The View on currently, which at this very moment is discussing..... 
682flags
68311/02/2016, 23:06 - C Castles: Ffs
68411/02/2016, 23:06 - L J Davis: "Is that what the conservatives want to do - to balance out the deaths across the week?"
685Lol!
68611/02/2016, 23:07 - L J Davis: I ?? flags!
68711/02/2016, 23:08 - C Castles: There are some people here who love flags too
68811/02/2016, 23:08 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
68911/02/2016, 23:08 - L J Davis: Except the sticks kept snapping...
69011/02/2016, 23:11 - L J Davis: Do we have any indication of timeframes on when we might see the detail of the imposed contract?
69111/02/2016, 23:11 - A Collier 75% of juniors in year one, with rolling implementation at times of change over.
69211/02/2016, 23:12 - L J Davis: Sorry: I meant the detail of the contract.
69311/02/2016, 23:12 - L J Davis: (But interestingly, does that mean lead employed ppl won't be imposed?)
69411/02/2016, 23:13 - A Collier Seems from hunts interviews implementation will be of the last offer
69511/02/2016, 23:14 - A Collier So whatever the finishing point was in any one area that will be what is imposed.
69611/02/2016, 23:15 - L J Davis: Still huge lack of detail.
697
698Interesting question from fbgod earlier. If someone is on a 1:4 rota, but LTFT do their Saturdays count as premium?
69911/02/2016, 23:15 - L J Davis: That kind of detail...
70011/02/2016, 23:16 - A Collier Or all of the NROC duty limits!
70111/02/2016, 23:16 - A Collier They'll just pick what they fancy!
70211/02/2016, 23:16 - L J Davis: Is it the rota or the individual? What happens to rota gaps/cover?
703Etc etc etc
70411/02/2016, 23:17 - A Collier Again they'll just pick what suits them
70511/02/2016, 23:17 - L J Davis: Some members of other bops have already called for an SRM...
70611/02/2016, 23:18 - C Castles: I've heard a few comments about SRM too
70711/02/2016, 23:19 - L J Davis: I think on balance, it might be good for the BMA to have chance to vent properly...
70811/02/2016, 23:19 - L J Davis: When are the consultants due to go bonkers over their contract?
70911/02/2016, 23:19 - B Roberts: I wonder if, with pay for all work done, this contract has the potential to bankrupt the NHS. Then it gets privatised.
71011/02/2016, 23:19 - L J Davis: (Aka when are cc balloting members?)
71111/02/2016, 23:20 - L J Davis: Yes Bethan. Although if they pay a very low rate then it'll all be ok...
71211/02/2016, 23:20 - A Collier We still don't know
71311/02/2016, 23:21 - L J Davis: Plus the downwards pressure on consultants not to sign off extra work will be immense (for the same reason)
71411/02/2016, 23:45 - A Sami: I am lost in the Welsh accent! Music or what! ?
71511/02/2016, 23:45 - B Roberts: I can't bear it, makes us all sound stupid. Especially the woman who kept saying "U-rope".
71611/02/2016, 23:46 - A Sami: I just don't listen. I just hear the music and I am gone!lol
71711/02/2016, 23:48 - A Sami: The Geordi is another one ?
71811/02/2016, 23:55 - A Sami: RCEM has released a good statement against imposition tonight at 22:30
719
720They clearly stated that "We do not agree with Sir David Dalton that the government needed to do 'whatever necessary' to bring the current dispitr to an end"
72112/02/2016, 06:51 - A Borbora: It's 1:4 actually Saturdays worked. I doubt many LTFT people will qualify, although some (eg a&e) may do
72212/02/2016, 07:33 - Z Greaves: Don't think it's pay for all work done that will cause the biggest problem, rather the limits on hours
72312/02/2016, 07:49 - K Mohan: Consultant conference is 2nd March with cc the next day. Their joint negotiators statement has gone to the minister no one know when public..
72412/02/2016, 07:51 - H Carter: Johann who is Marene Malawana?
72512/02/2016, 08:00 - J Malawana: My mum. Why?!? Wtf has she done??
72612/02/2016, 08:00 - K Mohan: :)))
72712/02/2016, 08:02 - K Mohan: Johann's mum is cool. What has she done?!?
72812/02/2016, 08:09 - H Carter: She liked one of my facebook posts, that's all!
72912/02/2016, 08:09 - H Carter: I assumed she was a relation and actually had already guessed she was your mum!
73012/02/2016, 08:35 - J Malawana: She's not cool. She is mental. Kitty just finds her cool because my whole family rip the piss out of me all the time. Inappropriately. It's abuse. I have had a very troubled upbringing as a result.
73112/02/2016, 08:42 - L J Davis: Isn't that normal for parents? My mum & brother do that. And my dad just ignores me.
73212/02/2016, 08:44 - L J Davis: Aaron: the LTFT thing is surely a huge issue? People working the 'same' Saturday's for different pay? That's bad. 
733Legally challenge able?
73412/02/2016, 08:45 - M Redman: Is unilateral imposition illegal? Someone said that but I dunno...
73512/02/2016, 08:45 - J Malawana: It is as the employer has the right. But it's challenge able if they get any aspect wrong.
73612/02/2016, 08:46 - J Malawana: There are issues about if it's unfair etc.
73712/02/2016, 08:46 - A Collier But LJD The current contract pays people different amounts for working the same Sunday.
73812/02/2016, 08:46 - J Malawana: There could also be issues that could be taken to judicial review but that would be a long shot.
73912/02/2016, 08:46 - A Collier The new contract will pay lots of people different rates for working the same day, not just LTFTs
74012/02/2016, 08:47 - D Rouse: Every avenue EVERY has to be taken
74112/02/2016, 08:47 - A Borbora: They won't be working as many, and do won't be eligible for the premium
74212/02/2016, 08:47 - D Rouse: Even long shots
74312/02/2016, 08:48 - M Redman: Yorkshire person says - 
744
745Are they using good lawyers though? As in the best of the best? I know a (very expensive) employment lawyer from previous experience and he's saying what the government is doing is essentially illegal and could easily be taken to court
74612/02/2016, 08:48 - A Borbora: It's perfectly legal to offer a contract. It's up to the employee if they take it up. Sadly happens all the time in industry
74712/02/2016, 08:49 - M Redman: I am dubious that govt would do it unless they knew it was sound
74812/02/2016, 08:49 - A Borbora: Treasury Solicitors are usually excellent
74912/02/2016, 08:50 - D Rouse: Our membership will expect it of us
75012/02/2016, 08:50 - D Rouse: Johann. Has the DoH indicated when a contract document outlining everything will be available. The exec need sight of this the moment it lands
75112/02/2016, 08:50 - A Collier Whilst we're on the subject of premium rates almost no NROC trainees will get a premium rate for Saturday's due to the (typically) low frequency of NROC rotas.
75212/02/2016, 08:50 - A Borbora: Paul Wallace basically did this with prison officers a few years ago
75312/02/2016, 08:50 - D Rouse: Have the formalised the offer
75412/02/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hendy_(barrister)
75512/02/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: That's the barrister we tend to use melody
75612/02/2016, 08:50 - C Castles: I didn't think it was illegal, simply as we are only on short term contracts, so they are just offering juniors a new contract, and we can decide whether to take it or not
75712/02/2016, 08:51 - J Malawana: He is the top barrister and legal mind in the country for trade unions.
75812/02/2016, 08:51 - J Malawana: Specialises only in representing trade unions because he is so well respected in the field.
75912/02/2016, 08:52 - C Castles: For the purpose of counting how many saturdays you work, does working overnight on Friday count?
76012/02/2016, 08:52 - M Redman: Oooh interesting.  Thanks Johann ?
76112/02/2016, 08:53 - D Rouse: As I am keeping masses calm saying we have not yet received formalised documents from doh NHSE
76212/02/2016, 08:53 - D Rouse: Johann.....
76312/02/2016, 08:54 - A Collier David...
76412/02/2016, 08:54 - A Collier David...
76512/02/2016, 08:54 - A Collier David...
76612/02/2016, 08:54 - C Castles: Andrew
76712/02/2016, 08:55 - A Collier The thing you do with calling people by their name to get their attention  always makes me laugh
76812/02/2016, 08:55 - A Borbora: My reps have been very clear they and the doctors they've spoken with want a clear guide to the dalton contract so they can reject it from a position of knowledge 
769We also need some pay information based on their offer and transition arrangements. At least taking a few exemplar rotas and calculating pay
77012/02/2016, 08:55 - A Collier I always imagine you sat at the back of a classroom with your hand up.
77112/02/2016, 08:56 - A Collier I've had exactly the same feedback as Aaron (albeit from Manchester trainees).
77212/02/2016, 08:56 - D Rouse: Well an answer would be great
77312/02/2016, 08:57 - J Malawana: No David. If there was a formal offer it would be in the hsj for everyone to read
77412/02/2016, 09:00 - L J Davis: Indeed ??
77512/02/2016, 09:47 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ok...so theres been a bit of a discussion of the legal aspect of things. Although in my view there will be little of substamce we can do from that angle... we should definitely explore every angle possible. My question is this; at one point Johann you mentioned that the Gov will have to seek some sort of parliamentary approval to get this through? Whats the latest thinking on this?
77612/02/2016, 09:48 - Y Gourtsouyannis: To clarify...the above is distinct from the purely legal challenges in my mind.
77712/02/2016, 10:30 - J Malawana: We are up to 12 of 20 CEOs disowning the letter. Rats and sinking ship come to mind
77812/02/2016, 10:31 - J Malawana: This is a political car crash
77912/02/2016, 10:31 - B Roberts: Andrew, who gets paid different rates for working weekends under the current contract?
78012/02/2016, 10:31 - T Crocker-Buque: What letter?
78112/02/2016, 10:33 - B Roberts: Ignore me, just realised that you probably mean A v B bands.
78212/02/2016, 10:33 - A Borbora: I suspect the CEOs thing will be a storm in a teacup. 
783Yannis it depends on what they want to do. If they are simply moving people over on rotation they don't need anything like that. It would be needed, probably, to move people who are on a long term current contract over - basically those on lead employers (maybe 20% of trainees currently)
78412/02/2016, 10:42 - J Malawana: Lots of those storms in teacups seem to turn into what we use to move the agenda so let's see what happens with this one
78512/02/2016, 10:47 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
78612/02/2016, 10:47 - A Sami: Annonymous use is appreciated (for the junior doctor's sake)
78712/02/2016, 10:50 - A Collier In response to B Roberts: as you know the crude nature of banding means that trainees can work multiple weekends or just one and still be in the same banding (most often band 1B). Therefore the notional rate of pay varies massively. The new arrangements will just make this variation more obvious.
78812/02/2016, 11:02 - B Roberts: Andrew.
78912/02/2016, 11:02 - B Roberts: Andrew.
79012/02/2016, 11:02 - B Roberts: À la Rouse! Thanks for that - realised what you meant as soon as I posted that question...
79112/02/2016, 11:06 - A Sami: Interestingly HR are contacting each department to get rota template for junior docs. Maybe it's just a coincidence ??
79212/02/2016, 11:06 - A Sami: From Sheffield
79312/02/2016, 11:22 - J Malawana: Amjad would suggest that trainee follows up with asking for an open meeting of juniors.
79412/02/2016, 11:22 - Y Gourtsouyannis: <Media omitted>
79512/02/2016, 11:23 - D Rouse: Andrew a la Rouse 
796
797Haha is that the name you are using now ?
79812/02/2016, 11:23 - J Malawana: Lol. I checked that last night. It's wrong.
79912/02/2016, 11:33 - L J Davis: Are we wondering, yannis? I thought we weren't...
80012/02/2016, 11:35 - A Sami: Johann
801
802What is the main question to ask him in that meeting?
80312/02/2016, 12:23 - L J Davis: Having CEOs saying the imposition is wrong is interesting.
804If they are foundation trusts, they do, of course have the discretion NOT to use the new imposed contract...
80512/02/2016, 12:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hey ljd...yeah the guardian has got it wrong big time.
80612/02/2016, 13:07 - A Yassaee: Apparently ASIT has resigned from the ATDG in protest at yday
80712/02/2016, 13:10 - Z Greaves: That may be why there's a fairly firm letter now circulating from arch
80812/02/2016, 13:10 - Z Greaves: Atdg
80912/02/2016, 13:11 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
81012/02/2016, 13:11 - Z Greaves: They've published pay rates
81112/02/2016, 13:15 - A Collins: Just wait til diva Dave sees the EM FPP
81212/02/2016, 13:16 - A Collins: I mean I'm raging cos I once wanted to do it... David is going to cut someone.
81312/02/2016, 13:27 - K Mohan: What's the letter from ATDG?
81412/02/2016, 13:27 - K Mohan: As in does someone have a link?
81512/02/2016, 13:29 - L J Davis: Pay rates look v bad. Unless you're unbanded.
81612/02/2016, 13:30 - A Collins: Are the OOH rates in there?
81712/02/2016, 13:31 - D Rouse: £1500 are they fucking joking!!!!
81812/02/2016, 13:32 - A Collins: Told you.
81912/02/2016, 13:34 - K Mohan: David you need to be less predictable!
82012/02/2016, 13:37 - L J Davis: 'They are 'aving a bleedin' larf!!!'
82112/02/2016, 13:37 - D Rouse: I will try kitty
82212/02/2016, 13:39 - Z Greaves: I was going to say fairly good if unbanded - at st3 with no on call I'm looking at almost a 40% rise - tbh you'd have to think quite hard before refusing that
82312/02/2016, 13:40 - A Collins: Really? That surprises me.
82412/02/2016, 13:40 - A Collins: Can someone link the current pay for the morons among us who haven't memorised it yet?
82512/02/2016, 13:41 - A Yassaee: If the living wage is set to me £9 in 2020, doesn't that mean they'll have to increase  the f1 salaries?
82612/02/2016, 13:42 - A Yassaee: Ignore me - realised i made a calculation error
82712/02/2016, 13:42 - K Mohan: But there are very very few trainees at st3 level who do no OOH, Zoe.
82812/02/2016, 13:43 - K Mohan: Aside from some PH regs I literally can't think who else.
82912/02/2016, 13:44 - Z Greaves: No probably not tho st1-2 is still a fair uplift for those who aren't
83012/02/2016, 13:44 - K Mohan: Again relatively few st1-2 who don't do OOH.
83112/02/2016, 13:45 - K Mohan: I'm intrigued. Is PH a special case - such radiology trainees I think?
83212/02/2016, 13:45 - K Mohan: Anyone else?
83312/02/2016, 13:45 - Z Greaves: Radiology, histopath, micro, public health, occy health
83412/02/2016, 13:45 - Z Greaves: All relatively small specialties but they could add up
83512/02/2016, 13:45 - K Mohan: Micro don't do OOH? Really?
83612/02/2016, 13:46 - A Collins: So those figures will have ooh uplifts on top?
83712/02/2016, 13:46 - K Mohan: And for how long? Is it until they pass exams.
83812/02/2016, 13:46 - D Rouse: So I will get
83912/02/2016, 13:46 - Z Greaves: Not for the first year sometimes two - it's f2 entry for run through so like ph they have to wait a bit
84012/02/2016, 13:46 - Z Greaves: Think there's some variability
84112/02/2016, 13:46 - D Rouse: £49500 basic. Where is London weighting
84212/02/2016, 13:46 - D Rouse: Is there still London weighting
84312/02/2016, 13:47 - K Mohan: what % of trainees do those specialities make up at St1/2 level?
84412/02/2016, 13:47 - A Collins: No there's actually going to be less money for London trainees becuase they should be honoured by the immediate presence of JH
84512/02/2016, 13:48 - K Mohan: I think it's like to be small.
84612/02/2016, 13:48 - K Mohan: Too small to base a contract on at the expense of other trainees.
84712/02/2016, 13:48 - Z Greaves: Agree not huge, there may be a few others too but again small numbers
84812/02/2016, 13:49 - Z Greaves: Wasn't suggesting we should just saying small number of our members may be a little less bloodthirsty for the forthcoming
84912/02/2016, 13:49 - K Mohan: :) I'm not arguing just interested. That's more unbanded trainees than I thought but still small.
85012/02/2016, 13:53 - L J Davis: Plus some unbanded are on higher spine points, so will drop to ST level. (Like moi).
85112/02/2016, 13:55 - L J Davis: But the ph regs won't like it. They are all about the bigger picture & always v vocal on how important acute specialities were...
85212/02/2016, 13:58 - K Mohan: Maybe PH should take a leaf out of the RCPsych book and say that if my "workplace when oncall is my home as I cover a population of 6 million (which I do), then as I have a bed at home, I'll be resident.
85312/02/2016, 13:58 - K Mohan: ;)
85412/02/2016, 14:01 - K Mohan: I'm really pleased psych are taking the problem seriously. They stand to really lose out here.
85512/02/2016, 14:02 - Z Greaves: I've been on at Src chair this morning to push fph to publish a letter on nroc and pay protection
85612/02/2016, 14:03 - Z Greaves: They refuse to let chair of Src sign atdg letter as chair of src - has to sign as an independent member of atdg ??
85712/02/2016, 14:04 - K Mohan: I raised this at the last SRC. They were not in the slightest bit interested.
85812/02/2016, 14:04 - K Mohan: Why Zoe?
85912/02/2016, 14:04 - Z Greaves: Because they're idiots
86012/02/2016, 14:04 - K Mohan: Lol
86112/02/2016, 14:04 - K Mohan: Who is they?
86212/02/2016, 14:05 - K Mohan: *Are they even
86312/02/2016, 14:05 - Z Greaves: In order for something to bear the faculties name it would have to wait until the next meeting of the education committee and be discussed as an agenda item - the faculty - neutered by their own internal bureaucracy
86412/02/2016, 14:06 - Z Greaves: Mark the src chair is lovely and not an idiot
86512/02/2016, 14:06 - K Mohan: Basically PH needs to grow a pair. I've told the SRC this. They really like having me on the committee.
86612/02/2016, 14:07 - K Mohan: He's very keen to not get involved in this though as it "doesn't affect non-medics". Hahahaha
86712/02/2016, 14:07 - Z Greaves: Hmmm
86812/02/2016, 14:07 - T Crocker-Buque: Could you both stick this discussion on the PHMRSC list
86912/02/2016, 14:07 - K Mohan: Sorry I mean he on behalf of the SRC.
87012/02/2016, 14:08 - K Mohan: :) yes boss.
87112/02/2016, 14:08 - Z Greaves: No was thinking id need to have another chat with him about that
87212/02/2016, 14:08 - A Collins: What's the SRC?
87312/02/2016, 14:08 - Z Greaves: Not as easy now we're not in the same building
87412/02/2016, 14:08 - Z Greaves: The faculties trainee committee
87512/02/2016, 14:09 - Z Greaves: Sorry Tim
87612/02/2016, 14:09 - K Mohan: Just be careful with PHMRS listserver as the SRC rep is on it obvs. Ie don't actually be rude. :)
87712/02/2016, 14:09 - K Mohan: I'll leave it to you Zoe as can't remember how this began.
87812/02/2016, 14:10 - Z Greaves: Who is it that we have on phmrs from src at the mo? Is it still Emily?
87912/02/2016, 14:10 - K Mohan: Yes.
88012/02/2016, 14:33 - A Yassaee: Andrew Munro has posted on the group explaining that pay won't go down. He could well be correct but if not, might be worth correcting now
88112/02/2016, 14:43 - K Mohan: Who's Andrew Munro?
88212/02/2016, 14:45 - A Yassaee: I just highlighted the name so it'd be easier to find
88312/02/2016, 14:46 - A Yassaee: I think he is a F1 now
88412/02/2016, 14:47 - A Collier Can someone point me in the direction of he source of Zoe's figures?
88512/02/2016, 14:47 - H Carter: Andrew Munro is on my exec
88612/02/2016, 14:49 - A Yassaee: I stand corrected
88712/02/2016, 14:49 - Z Greaves: Btw whatever happened to project jumbo - or whatever it was we were meant to call it? Was that not to be an ace up our sleeve?
88812/02/2016, 14:49 - Z Greaves: http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Documents/Need%20to%20know/Summary%20of%20new%20JD%202016%20contract%20Final%2012%20Feb.pdf
88912/02/2016, 14:49 - H Carter: What has he said?
89012/02/2016, 14:49 - Z Greaves: Appendix a
89112/02/2016, 14:50 - A Yassaee: https://m.facebook.com/groups/1703752843188523?view=permalink&id=1751957155034758
89212/02/2016, 14:54 - Z Greaves: Anyone? Project jumbo? Was it a dead duck?
89312/02/2016, 15:01 - A Collier I think project jumbo was dead in the water some time ago.
89412/02/2016, 15:01 - A Collier Are those nodal points based on a 40 or 48 hour week?
89512/02/2016, 15:02 - A Collier If they are on a forty hour week it's not as bad as some had predicted. If on a 48 hour week it's terrible.
89612/02/2016, 15:05 - J Malawana: The salary scales are on a 40 hour week
89712/02/2016, 15:06 - A Collier Thank you.
89812/02/2016, 15:07 - A Collier Of course we mustn't forget that the whole amount will now be pensionable so that will have a further negative effect on take home salary.
89912/02/2016, 15:08 - D Rouse: So
90012/02/2016, 15:08 - D Rouse: Can we begin to formulate calculators
90112/02/2016, 15:08 - D Rouse: Or a least an example say a FY2
90212/02/2016, 15:08 - D Rouse: Or
90312/02/2016, 15:08 - D Rouse: ST4 EM
90412/02/2016, 15:09 - D Rouse: Or psych
90512/02/2016, 15:18 - K Mohan: If we can do examples why not do them for all specialities. Like one for each and some LTFT/career break ones too.
90612/02/2016, 15:19 - K Mohan: It's not that helpful for anyone in a different speciality if only a few specialities are modelled.
90712/02/2016, 15:22 - D Rouse: No I just meant whilst we make a type in your details calculator
90812/02/2016, 15:22 - D Rouse: Perhaps a few examples in meanwhile
90912/02/2016, 15:25 - L J Davis: Like an acute medic on a 1b type <1:4 rota; an EM doc on a >1:4 rota; a LTFT Dr in an unbanded post, etc...
91012/02/2016, 15:44 - D Rouse: How supportive are the last leg guys
91112/02/2016, 15:44 - D Rouse: Are they good to JDs
91212/02/2016, 15:44 - K Mohan: Very I think
91312/02/2016, 15:45 - D Rouse: Asking to use my Moët medics photo in a rant against sun
91412/02/2016, 15:45 - D Rouse: In the show tonight
91512/02/2016, 15:47 - D Rouse: Any thoughts?
91612/02/2016, 16:05 - A Yassaee: If you don't have a personal  objection, I think it should be fine
91712/02/2016, 16:06 - D Rouse: Had the script read out to me. Sounds ok
91812/02/2016, 16:06 - A Borbora: I've started a LS discussion re pay and pay calculators 
919Please get involved so the appropriate people can develop it
92012/02/2016, 16:18 - L J Davis: Last leg? Moët medic? Yes absolutely!
92112/02/2016, 16:19 - D Rouse: I have given permission
92212/02/2016, 16:28 - K Mohan: They seem to want juniors to hit a piñata of Jeremy hunt. There's a discussion on FBGoD
92312/02/2016, 16:29 - A Yassaee: HEE sending out NHS employers' letters again...
92412/02/2016, 16:30 - D Rouse: Haha
92512/02/2016, 17:01 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
92612/02/2016, 17:02 - C Castles: Interesting critique of the contract melody
92712/02/2016, 17:03 - Y Gourtsouyannis: As long as the piñata doesnt shed loads of bank notes when its burst open...
92812/02/2016, 17:13 - M Redman: Awks. Least I didn't accidentally say something incriminating. I have a thing for pinatas but not sure I'd bash hunts head in on tele
92912/02/2016, 17:18 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha yep...i love how discussing the doctors contract dispute within the context of austerity and politics is a big taboo but bashing hunts head in live on tv or telling him to 'shut up you tart' (as was done repeatedly at last weeks protest) is just fine. Its almost as if the media prefer spectacle over real analysis! ;-)
93012/02/2016, 17:20 - A Yassaee: Yannis I think the problem with linking it to a bigger political problem is that argument loses interest in a sizeable portion of the public straight away.
931
932But I have been thinking about who juniors blame for this. I don't think saying it's Hunt's fault is helpful any longer. His main job is to act as a lightening rod to take away attention from DC. I am starting to think we should make that job redundant and just say this is entirely DC's fault. Maybe even be sympathetic for poor Jeremy who had to fulfill a manifesto commitment or lose his job.
93312/02/2016, 17:21 - A Yassaee: I realise that is controversial.  But I sense our win is now a purely political one as it is essentially to force a u-turn.
93412/02/2016, 17:23 - K Mohan: Johann! You've bloody tweeted that we're having an open meeting next week and now about half our region wants to come!! :)
93512/02/2016, 17:26 - C Castles: I'm sure people will have a good laugh at it, but its not really a very good look is it - juniors promoting violence against someone.
93612/02/2016, 17:36 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I like arrashs 'lets have some sympathy for hunt and go after cameron' concept. Its a nice transition of focus from one individual to another (so keeping it simple) but is actually under the surface an effective way of broadening the political discussion and going after the real sources of the dispute.
93712/02/2016, 17:37 - A Yassaee: This is another of those political full circle moments.
93812/02/2016, 17:37 - D Rouse: What meeting is open
93912/02/2016, 17:37 - D Rouse: Jdc or RJDC
94012/02/2016, 17:38 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Johann...time to go after Cameron.
94112/02/2016, 17:38 - L J Davis: Left meets right?
94212/02/2016, 17:39 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Sort of ljd. Or politics meets politics!
94312/02/2016, 17:39 - L J Davis: I agree. Let's bring this to Cameron's door.
944But let's not forget hunt.
94512/02/2016, 17:39 - A Yassaee: I think we have to pick one.
94612/02/2016, 17:40 - A Yassaee: Otherwise it's a bit like a teenager hating the world.
94712/02/2016, 17:40 - L J Davis: I think moving fbgod on from hint is going to be ... Challenging
94812/02/2016, 17:40 - L J Davis: *hunt
94912/02/2016, 17:40 - A Yassaee: I think a few pinned posts could do it.
95012/02/2016, 17:40 - L J Davis: They've made it personal.
95112/02/2016, 17:41 - L J Davis: Can we enlist his auntie?
95212/02/2016, 17:42 - L J Davis: Kitty: he's done the same to me. Divisional mtg. Now joint with rjdc. Not open! Lol!
95312/02/2016, 17:43 - A Borbora: Like the miners went after thatcher? 
954I'm not sure what lots of shouty people on the internet are going to do, really. 
955What are we wanting to see them do? There have been far for contentious issues than this in the past (including austerity in the round) that have simply been ignored despite online petitions and tirades.
95612/02/2016, 17:43 - D Rouse: Chairs prerogative
95712/02/2016, 17:43 - C Castles: May I suggest that a change to our group comms (going after Cameron) should be discussed on listserver
95812/02/2016, 17:44 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ok conan good point.
95912/02/2016, 17:44 - A Yassaee: Fair.
96012/02/2016, 17:46 - A Yassaee: Posted a quick line.
96112/02/2016, 17:47 - A Borbora: Agree Conan
96212/02/2016, 17:49 - C Castles: Thank you. I think we sometimes forget that not all members of exec are on this group
96312/02/2016, 17:50 - A Yassaee: I wasn't aware in which case I would have written something more substantial
96412/02/2016, 17:50 - A Yassaee: Oops
96512/02/2016, 17:51 - L J Davis: I'm pissed off. I organised a divisional AGM ages ago; and opened it up to the rjdc yesterday... And now richard has emailed out & 'forgotten' to say it's a joint mtg! Hmph!
96612/02/2016, 17:53 - L J Davis: I don't mind, but it's just nice to be acknowledged.
967Plus ppl are going to think there are some VERY old juniors attending!
96812/02/2016, 18:34 - T Crocker-Buque: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/all-junior-doctors-to-retrain-as-brand-managers-20160211106138
96912/02/2016, 18:45 - L J Davis: Is the news quiz talking about contracts? I'm trapped in a car listening to Paddington on a loop. ??????
97012/02/2016, 18:45 - Y Gourtsouyannis: <Media omitted>
97112/02/2016, 21:06 - A Collins: https://www.facebook.com/DrRant/posts/1161970817161460
97212/02/2016, 22:05 - C Castles: Last leg just started
97312/02/2016, 22:05 - D Rouse: Yeah
97412/02/2016, 22:08 - M Redman: Looks like it'll be playing the game operation not a pinata head. PLEASE.
97512/02/2016, 22:10 - M Redman: Put it on note!
97612/02/2016, 22:10 - M Redman: Now
97712/02/2016, 22:10 - M Redman: Hallett was on it!
97812/02/2016, 22:10 - C Castles: Just saw hallett
97912/02/2016, 22:10 - M Redman: Well a clip of her.
98012/02/2016, 22:11 - C Castles: Loads of juniors there
98112/02/2016, 22:12 - C Castles: I think kapil is there
98212/02/2016, 22:12 - M Redman: Wearing bma stickers.
98312/02/2016, 22:13 - A Collins: Oh god... Kapil :o
98412/02/2016, 22:13 - A Collins: (kidding...)
98512/02/2016, 22:14 - C Castles: I'm not certain, it looked like him from a distance
98612/02/2016, 22:14 - A Collins: They did just ask them how many would treat hunt and they all said yes. Good press
98712/02/2016, 22:14 - C Castles: Well, some of them said yes
98812/02/2016, 22:14 - A Collins: Did some of them not? It looked pretty unanimous
98912/02/2016, 22:16 - C Castles: Here he comes....
99012/02/2016, 22:16 - M Redman: Ooooh it's Dave's bit
99112/02/2016, 22:16 - C Castles: There he is
99212/02/2016, 22:16 - A Collins: My stream is clearly behind :/
99312/02/2016, 22:16 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
99412/02/2016, 22:16 - B Roberts: Ha ha!
99512/02/2016, 22:16 - M Redman: 'He doesn't even look like he's done that before'
99612/02/2016, 22:17 - A Collins: Teehee
99712/02/2016, 22:17 - M Redman: They called you a LAD
99812/02/2016, 22:17 - C Castles: "absolute lad"
99912/02/2016, 22:17 - A Collins: "as long as that's his holiday and not before the operating theatre"
100012/02/2016, 22:17 - A Collins: "Not exactly an episode of MTV cribs"
100112/02/2016, 22:18 - C Castles: Was that kap that shouted Australia?
100212/02/2016, 22:18 - M Redman: Craps... Pinata out
100312/02/2016, 22:19 - C Castles: Ahh, good
100412/02/2016, 22:19 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
100512/02/2016, 22:19 - A Collins: Yeah, I'm relatively confident that's kap
100612/02/2016, 22:19 - M Redman: Thank goodness doctors not bashing it
100712/02/2016, 22:19 - C Castles: I think this is wise
100812/02/2016, 22:19 - A Collins: Yeah, clever, I like that.
100912/02/2016, 22:19 - C Castles: He's even got a badge
101012/02/2016, 22:19 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
101112/02/2016, 22:20 - C Castles: Haha
101212/02/2016, 22:20 - M Redman: Omd. This is strangely therapeutic to watch
101312/02/2016, 22:20 - A Collins: Those sticks are a little weak. But this is cathartic
101412/02/2016, 22:20 - C Castles: "you're being a dick"
101512/02/2016, 22:20 - B Roberts: That was a nice intro - "they're so kind they can't hit a piñata".
101612/02/2016, 22:21 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
101712/02/2016, 22:21 - K Mohan: Kapil is def there.
101812/02/2016, 22:21 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
101912/02/2016, 22:21 - K Mohan: One of my south thames docs sent me this a while ago
102012/02/2016, 22:23 - A Collins: Aww, go team! Which I could have gone, I love the last leg
102112/02/2016, 22:24 - C Castles: #dickoftheyear
102212/02/2016, 22:24 - C Castles: We can all vote for hunt
102312/02/2016, 22:24 - D Rouse: That's Andrew Rowlands kitchen
102412/02/2016, 22:24 - D Rouse: In France
102512/02/2016, 22:24 - D Rouse: Kitty should recognise it
102612/02/2016, 22:25 - A Yassaee: Oeeer
102712/02/2016, 22:26 - M Redman: ??AR??
102812/02/2016, 22:44 - C Castles: Www.huntjeremy.co.uk
102912/02/2016, 22:45 - C Castles: Though I think it's crashed
103012/02/2016, 22:45 - A Yassaee: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/12/hospitals-jeremy-hunt-junior-doctors-contract#comments
103112/02/2016, 22:45 - A Yassaee: Is there any truth to this?
103212/02/2016, 22:50 - A Yassaee: (Of course it relies on Caroline Lucas' NHS bill failing)
103312/02/2016, 22:58 - A Borbora: It's legally true - being discussed on listserver
103412/02/2016, 23:03 - C Castles: Dick of the year, well done hunt
103512/02/2016, 23:06 - M Redman: Slow clap
103612/02/2016, 23:14 - L J Davis: I suggested it earlier today...
103712/02/2016, 23:15 - L J Davis: Foundation trusts can do what they like with contracts
103813/02/2016, 00:05 - A Collier My college has begun to approach trusts to see if they will vary the contract to ensure psychiatry trainees are no worse off. All of those approach so far have signalled the would be prepared to vary the contract to safeguard recruitment.
103913/02/2016, 00:50 - D Rouse: Wow
104013/02/2016, 00:50 - D Rouse: Wonder if they do that for em
104113/02/2016, 00:54 - A Yassaee: Write to them saying what RCPsych are doing?
104213/02/2016, 08:05 - L J Davis: So local variation. Thing is, is that a good or a bad thing?
104313/02/2016, 08:56 - K Mohan: Tbh it's likely to be good for those trainees.
104413/02/2016, 08:56 - K Mohan: I thjnk all the colleges should be doing what the RCPsych is doing. They should have all be men doing it years ago like the rcgp has.
104513/02/2016, 08:58 - A Yassaee: It probably comes down to fill rates, which is why for psych it's sensible for trusts to make exceptions.
104613/02/2016, 08:59 - K Mohan: Yeah I agree. But I think all colleges should take a leaf/grow a pair and stand up for their trainees..
104713/02/2016, 09:00 - A Yassaee: Valid. i was thinking more about whether trusts would listen
104813/02/2016, 09:00 - K Mohan: Agree. :)
104913/02/2016, 09:28 - A Borbora: And of course we end up with the pay cartel again.
105013/02/2016, 09:38 - A Yassaee: On a serious note, are we going to fan the flames before RJDCs?
105113/02/2016, 09:38 - A Yassaee: My concern is the general medic apathy might creep in
105213/02/2016, 09:46 - A Sami: Local negotiations, although seems good for specailities, it will harm the strength of BMA a lot.
1053
1054It might also lead to less favourable terms where recruitment is not a problem, London for example.
1055
1056I don't know which is easier for privatisation, crap natinal T&Cs or local variation (or both!)
105713/02/2016, 10:01 - L J Davis: Or the awful Sw consortium. That was one of the two reasons I ever thought a new contract might be worth it.
105813/02/2016, 10:03 - A Borbora: I think a 4-nation contract is always the best thing. However if people want to top up with local additional rrps then is that a bad thing?
105913/02/2016, 10:04 - D Rouse: The trouble will be whether money is available locally.
106013/02/2016, 10:04 - D Rouse: We all know for example Blackpool is both poor financially and under subscribed
106113/02/2016, 10:05 - D Rouse: And will not have the ability to provide a RRP
106213/02/2016, 10:06 - Z Greaves: Yes and local negotiations for specialties may work well where you have a motivated and proactive college but not all specialties do
106313/02/2016, 10:07 - D Rouse: Rrp if 1500 is a joke though
106413/02/2016, 10:07 - D Rouse: Of*
106513/02/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: Conservative valentines days cards
106613/02/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
106713/02/2016, 10:11 - M Redman: LOL
106813/02/2016, 10:12 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
106913/02/2016, 10:18 - B Roberts: Agree that a 4-nation contract would be the ideal outcome. England spoiled the party by threatening imposition and now enforcing it. Welsh health minister has been fairly scathing of JH in the last few days the Welsh Assembly cannot influence Westminster.
107013/02/2016, 10:22 - A Yassaee: Mark drakeford and carwyn jones must be loving the oecd report. Hopefully they can through it in DH's face in a way that helps us too.
107113/02/2016, 10:25 - D Rouse: Leanne wood however
107213/02/2016, 10:25 - D Rouse: Urgh watched her on question time.
107313/02/2016, 10:25 - D Rouse: She really rubs me up the wrong way.
107413/02/2016, 10:25 - A Yassaee: She's awful.
107513/02/2016, 10:51 - J Malawana: I find nationalism in general not a pleasant philosophical concept. But I quite like Leanne wood and Nicola.
107613/02/2016, 10:51 - J Malawana: I find the contrast with the male blustering politicians quite nice.
107713/02/2016, 10:52 - J Malawana: And they aren't thatcher or Theresa May who frankly have no finesse and charm.
107813/02/2016, 11:09 - A Borbora: Assessments of charm is always a personal thing I guess.
107913/02/2016, 11:09 - B Roberts: The OECD report has gone down very well. Carwyn's demanding a formal apology from DC.
108013/02/2016, 11:10 - A Yassaee: Damn right. Carwyn should milk it for all it's worth.
108113/02/2016, 11:10 - B Roberts: I don't like Leanne's hair. She looks as if she's been vomited up by the 80s.
108213/02/2016, 11:11 - A Yassaee: I just can't take her seriously when she included water as a major industry that could fuel an independent Wales.
108313/02/2016, 11:11 - A Yassaee: )Economically)
108413/02/2016, 11:12 - J Malawana: Control of water is a fundamental in a rising population Arrash. It's what the bilderberg are doing ;/)
108513/02/2016, 11:24 - A Yassaee: Haven't heard them mentioned in a while.
108613/02/2016, 11:25 - A Yassaee: The water point was more that within 10-20 years the costs of transporting fresh water from the valleys to the south east is less than desalination from the coast. It's a bit like North sea oil all over again.
108713/02/2016, 11:25 - A Yassaee: More, not less sorry.
108813/02/2016, 11:28 - A Yassaee: Going back to an earlier point - are we going to fan flames before the RJDC meetings are we going to hold back?
108913/02/2016, 11:35 - A Borbora: As I've posted on listserver I think we need to be purely factual and allow people to make their own minds up. I've fleshed out my arguments on the listserver.
109013/02/2016, 11:47 - A Borbora: Junior doctors' dispute could become a war, union warns
1091http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35568628
1092Good to continue to have support from other unions. Little evidence of any post-imposition exodus - yet.
109313/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: One of the female doctors who is amazing EM doctor previously a surgeon
109413/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: Is a Nun
109513/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: And even the nuns are planning to picket and strike
109613/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: Inc full walk out
109713/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: You know you are in the wrong when you've managed to piss off a nun
109813/02/2016, 12:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Aaron...the support frm othr unions is increasing
109913/02/2016, 12:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Post inposition
110013/02/2016, 12:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Imposition
110113/02/2016, 12:08 - A Borbora: I was at unison NW on Thursday
110213/02/2016, 12:08 - A Borbora: They're fantastic
110313/02/2016, 12:09 - A Borbora: I was introduced as "our comrade from the bma"
110413/02/2016, 12:09 - A Borbora: And referred to as "brother"
110513/02/2016, 12:09 - A Borbora: Got a standing ovation lol
110613/02/2016, 12:10 - L J Davis: I do get a bit freaked out by being mentioned as a "comrade". ?? do comrades wear pink a lot? I'm never sure...
110713/02/2016, 12:11 - A Collier The rally in Manchester on Wednesday began with "fraternal greetings" from the fire brigades Union.
110813/02/2016, 12:11 - A Collier One speaker started with "Brother, comrades"
110913/02/2016, 12:11 - A Borbora: "Real comrades wear pink"
111013/02/2016, 12:12 - A Collier And all that resulted in me speaking at a TUC meeting last night...I was wearing pink
111113/02/2016, 12:12 - A Collier <Media omitted>
111213/02/2016, 12:12 - A Collier I may have "done a Yannis"
111313/02/2016, 12:12 - A Borbora: You're more of a comrade than I. You're northern
111413/02/2016, 12:13 - B Roberts: I inadvertently gave a talk to the Swansea Marxist society on Tuesday...
111513/02/2016, 12:13 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
111613/02/2016, 12:13 - A Collier Really?
111713/02/2016, 12:13 - D Rouse: For Andrew
111813/02/2016, 12:13 - A Borbora: Did they know Yannis?
111913/02/2016, 12:13 - A Collier Fuck off with the cat!
112013/02/2016, 12:14 - K Mohan: #istandwithandrew
112113/02/2016, 12:14 - A Borbora: I was talking to a UCH radiology reg on a course and he said "do you know Yannis"
112213/02/2016, 12:14 - D Rouse: Kitty your called kitty!!!
112313/02/2016, 12:14 - C Sheridan: Kitty upset she may not be the most loveable kitty on exec now...
112413/02/2016, 12:15 - M Redman: Bma told me I was advised not to go to a local defend our nhs thing even as not identifying myself as rep
112513/02/2016, 12:15 - A Borbora: Seemed impressed when I said I did
112613/02/2016, 12:15 - K Mohan: ???
112713/02/2016, 12:15 - A Collier Melody who told you that?
112813/02/2016, 12:15 - K Mohan: I met a student nurse yesterday who said as her opening comment "do you know Yannis?"
112913/02/2016, 12:16 - D Rouse: lol
113013/02/2016, 12:16 - K Mohan: We've been told we can go to all the meetings.
113113/02/2016, 12:16 - M Redman: Andy young...
1132We've checked briefly with Johann and Will, who heads up our public affairs team. Although it's, of course, your choice, we wouldn't recommend attending.
113313/02/2016, 12:16 - K Mohan: No issues.
113413/02/2016, 12:16 - K Mohan: Was that a while ago?
113513/02/2016, 12:16 - K Mohan: I thought the view had changed?
113613/02/2016, 12:16 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
113713/02/2016, 12:17 - M Redman: I thought maybe it's cos Clive peedel there lol
113813/02/2016, 12:17 - A Borbora: I take up pretty much all invitations - don't see why not.
113913/02/2016, 12:17 - K Mohan: Clive is part of the BMA.
114013/02/2016, 12:17 - M Redman: I specifically said not as a rep
114113/02/2016, 12:17 - K Mohan: He's on council.
114213/02/2016, 12:17 - M Redman: Looked pretty harmless to me
114313/02/2016, 12:18 - K Mohan: Next time just go.
114413/02/2016, 12:18 - A Collier Ultimately it's your choice. And if a council member is there I think they'd be hard pressed to argue against it.
114513/02/2016, 12:18 - M Redman: Cool I'll start going to stuff then.
1146I wanna support the firemen... they came with a fire engine to ours ??????
114713/02/2016, 12:18 - K Mohan: Our JDC secretariat forward every invite just to me and Sarah from our region.
114813/02/2016, 12:18 - A Collier The internal BMA staff are risk averse.
114913/02/2016, 12:18 - A Borbora: I seem to be a regular at the Liverpool TUC
115013/02/2016, 12:19 - M Redman: Interesting
115113/02/2016, 12:19 - A Collier I used to ask their advice on speaking engagements and things but now I just do them
115213/02/2016, 12:19 - A Collier Obviously you need to use some discretion.
115313/02/2016, 12:19 - A Borbora: They're interested and want to support - I don't say anything extreme so don't see an issue
115413/02/2016, 12:20 - J Malawana: There are a couple of groups I would be careful about being associated with. Yannis will kill me.
115513/02/2016, 12:20 - M Redman: Yeah. Okay that's useful to know and I'd not do them in bma role or just for sake of seeing firemen (obvs was joking ??).
115613/02/2016, 12:20 - A Collier No Marxists/Facists/UKIP
115713/02/2016, 12:20 - J Malawana: But peoples assembly and momentum do elicit a certain response from politicians across the political spectrum
115813/02/2016, 12:21 - J Malawana: So it may just be wise not to be identified as JDC exec.
115913/02/2016, 12:21 - A Collier Yes I've turned down a People's assembly thing next week
116013/02/2016, 12:21 - J Malawana: If people want to go as themselves that's different.
116113/02/2016, 12:21 - A Borbora: I mostly go as RJDC chair but they've got to know me so the boundaries are a bit blurred
116213/02/2016, 12:22 - J Malawana: Melody, we can appoint you as our FBU liaison officer.
116313/02/2016, 12:22 - A Collier In this difficult times I don't think we can't really separate my personal personas from our BMA roles.
116413/02/2016, 12:22 - J Malawana: We can get a badge made up
116513/02/2016, 12:22 - A Collier The right wing press won't make the distinction.
116613/02/2016, 12:23 - A Collier I met the General Secretary of the Bakers trade union last night.
116713/02/2016, 12:23 - A Collier Perhaps he can help with our overnight hot food issues?!?
116813/02/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: I have a question based on krish's tweet. I thought GP trainees only got the supplement when in GP placements (in the offer published yesterday).
116913/02/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
117013/02/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: Also is the supplement now not to make compatible with average ooh pay?
117113/02/2016, 12:25 - K Mohan: Or is £8200 the average?
117213/02/2016, 12:25 - D Rouse: No
117313/02/2016, 12:25 - D Rouse: It's only when on community placements
117413/02/2016, 12:25 - D Rouse: Even now
117513/02/2016, 12:25 - D Rouse: If you are in hospital you get banding as you are working oncall
117613/02/2016, 12:26 - K Mohan: I know what it is now. I mean how is it under the new system.
117713/02/2016, 12:26 - D Rouse: Only on community
117813/02/2016, 12:26 - D Rouse: Where there's nil or negligible oncall
117913/02/2016, 12:26 - D Rouse: It's in the small print below the table
118013/02/2016, 12:26 - A Collier I'm not sure the deal states that David
118113/02/2016, 12:26 - A Collier Ah right!
118213/02/2016, 12:26 - K Mohan: But it's not fixed to the average banding?
118313/02/2016, 12:26 - D Rouse: No its
118413/02/2016, 12:26 - K Mohan: Yes I know so is the GP trainee wrong.
118513/02/2016, 12:26 - D Rouse: The 8K
118613/02/2016, 12:27 - D Rouse: No fixed to anything
118713/02/2016, 12:27 - K Mohan: Per year?
118813/02/2016, 12:27 - D Rouse: Yeah
118913/02/2016, 12:27 - D Rouse: But they only do one year
119013/02/2016, 12:27 - K Mohan: It's 18 months right?
119113/02/2016, 12:27 - D Rouse: Unless they fail ARCP
119213/02/2016, 12:27 - J Malawana: True. Just don't get photographed with big Len was the advice I was told.
119313/02/2016, 12:27 - D Tooth: If as an st1 he or she does a GP post then they are right
119413/02/2016, 12:28 - K Mohan: I see Donna typing. :)
119513/02/2016, 12:28 - J Malawana: Sorry my phone died so that's out of step:-)
119613/02/2016, 12:28 - K Mohan: But if not, then no?
119713/02/2016, 12:28 - D Rouse: Fy2 in GP land do no get it
119813/02/2016, 12:28 - M Redman: I like badges ??
119913/02/2016, 12:28 - K Mohan: One sec. Donna what happens if they work 6 months as ST1
120013/02/2016, 12:28 - K Mohan: We're getting asked locally.
120113/02/2016, 12:29 - D Tooth: Every scheme is different ranging from approx 14-18 months in general practice. I assume that for that time frame the rrp will stand. When in hospital they will get whatever the hospital is
120213/02/2016, 12:29 - K Mohan: (That's why I'm asking B)
120313/02/2016, 12:29 - K Mohan: B not necessary in that sentence
120413/02/2016, 12:29 - K Mohan: Thanks Donna! :)
120513/02/2016, 12:29 - D Tooth: They are a GP reg and get the supplement/new rrp. Is what I assumed the negotiators had arranged
120613/02/2016, 12:30 - K Mohan: Do they get it for 6months like pro rata?
120713/02/2016, 12:30 - A Borbora: It is for them to retain parity for gps when in the community
120813/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
120913/02/2016, 12:30 - A Borbora: Not clear how it's to be paid
121013/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: That is the statement
121113/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: So they will get it
121213/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: When ever they r on community
121313/02/2016, 12:31 - K Mohan: I Don't think we're disagreeing on the apparent logic. Just asking probably a level of detail not available.
121413/02/2016, 12:31 - D Tooth: Yes so for your first 6 months you could be in GP with the rrp then switch to medicine or whatever for 18 months and receive whatever the rota stipulates and then back to GP to complete and then rrp again
121513/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: But it is not clear
121613/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: I assume it will be pro rats
121713/02/2016, 12:31 - A Borbora: I don't think think that level of detail is available yet
121813/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collier Actually the prospective GP trainee hasn't explicitly explained their issue
121913/02/2016, 12:32 - A Borbora: Sadly they seem to be dropping back from agreed positions in a few areas.
122013/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collier They are entering GP training from something else aren't they?
122113/02/2016, 12:32 - D Tooth: Yes I should imagine they will probably do it exactly like they do now. People switch all the time on different schemes
122213/02/2016, 12:33 - A Borbora: Donna's suggestion is the most logical
122313/02/2016, 12:33 - D Tooth: Yes Andrew by the looks of it so the problem is the pay protection, which will affect those switching specialty
122413/02/2016, 12:33 - A Borbora: Affects those going to non-shortage specialities much more
122513/02/2016, 12:33 - D Tooth: Having to restart on the scale
122613/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collier I'm right in thinking a trainer going straight into GP will be no worse off
122713/02/2016, 12:33 - D Tooth: Yes Aaron
122813/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collier Aren't I?
122913/02/2016, 12:33 - D Rouse: Duel accreditation
123013/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: Still is screwed
123113/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: As you may be st4-7 for YEARS!
123213/02/2016, 12:34 - A Borbora: Dual accreditation isn't the same though - they'll just progress and go to st8
123313/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: It adds 4 years
123413/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: But no
123513/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: Aaron no
123613/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: As it goes
123713/02/2016, 12:34 - D Tooth: I think so Andrew if you went straight through. But negs are probably best places to answer that
123813/02/2016, 12:35 - A Collier And ST3 GPs are getting a pay rise.
123913/02/2016, 12:36 - A Collier £9000 by my reckoning
124013/02/2016, 12:37 - A Borbora: Dual accreditors don't finish one programme and then start another from scratch, so they shouldn't drop to the bottom. But yes their pay will be static
124113/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: St3 icm st4 em st4 icm st5 em st5 icm st6 em etc
124213/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: So no
124313/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: You won't reach those pay pay points
124413/02/2016, 12:38 - A Collier And if in Blackpool (20,000/3) = £6666.66 + about £9000
124513/02/2016, 12:38 - L J Davis: 137 msgs? Fuck. I was only away like 10 minutes!
124613/02/2016, 12:39 - D Rouse: Their pay will Be static for years.
124713/02/2016, 12:39 - D Rouse: Sorry but GP appears to be getting best deal
124813/02/2016, 12:39 - D Rouse: Out of all
124913/02/2016, 12:41 - A Borbora: We don't have accurate pay models etc yet so not sure we can assume that, David? But I think it's fair to say NROC specialities have lost out.
125013/02/2016, 12:41 - D Rouse: Errrm
125113/02/2016, 12:42 - D Rouse: Ppl duel accrediting will not reach the higher scales
125213/02/2016, 12:42 - C Sheridan: I've wondered about the dual thing too. In psych the college refer to you going up st level every year, e.g. up to ST8 (when single CCT ends at ST6) so I'd assumed you would progress normally...
125313/02/2016, 12:42 - D Rouse: Not in those icm specialialitues
125413/02/2016, 12:42 - D Rouse: Em resp renal acute med anaesthesia
125513/02/2016, 12:42 - A Collier Longer trainee undertaking longer training will also lose out
125613/02/2016, 12:43 - A Collier Sorry for the confusion in that message, I'm sure you got the gist
125713/02/2016, 12:45 - J Malawana: Can this conversation be switched to the listserver?
125813/02/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: I would ask it goes to the EXec server
125913/02/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: Sorry to ask but i know people have said extensively that this is not the type of conversation for this group
126013/02/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: Not jdc
126113/02/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: I don't mind.
126213/02/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: Debate is debate. It will have to be had but exec is better.
126313/02/2016, 12:47 - A Collier Sure.
126413/02/2016, 12:49 - J Malawana: Just to be clear. It can be done on JDC if people want it done there. I don't want it to be felt we are stifling people's ability to just have discussions within exec. :-).
126513/02/2016, 12:50 - J Malawana: Many of the documents are out so discussing the public documents on JDC can always be argued as appropriate.
126613/02/2016, 12:51 - D Tooth: Might be useful in the steering group server as negotiators are on there too
126713/02/2016, 12:52 - D Tooth: Oh and they are on jdc too.
126813/02/2016, 12:54 - L J Davis: Esp the GP thingy. Then I can read it properly...
126913/02/2016, 13:18 - C Sheridan: Widest group possible I'd say unless there's a reason only exec should be talking about this? Prob JDC list
127013/02/2016, 13:22 - D Rouse: The reason I say this is I still don't know who is on Jdc list server
127113/02/2016, 13:22 - D Rouse: Everyone seems to be on it
127213/02/2016, 13:24 - A Borbora: Nothing to hide, surely?
127313/02/2016, 13:27 - A Borbora: Was a deal over doctors' contracts ever possible?
1274http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35563301
127513/02/2016, 13:29 - D Rouse: I have nothing to hide
127613/02/2016, 13:29 - D Rouse: But I want juniors opinions
127713/02/2016, 13:29 - D Rouse: Not gpc chief officers and consultant s
127813/02/2016, 13:31 - A Borbora: I welcome all. Sometimes people who aren't as tied up in this as we all are have something to offer?
127913/02/2016, 13:31 - J Malawana: Can this please be switched to the listserver.
128013/02/2016, 13:31 - A Borbora: Doesn't mean we have to have regard to what they say??
128113/02/2016, 13:31 - J Malawana: I don't care which one.
128213/02/2016, 13:31 - J Malawana: Just don't want anything being suggested that we are having policy discussions here.
128313/02/2016, 13:32 - J Malawana: And this is definitely a policy discussion.
128413/02/2016, 13:33 - D Rouse: So stealing
128513/02/2016, 13:33 - D Rouse: Stealing
128613/02/2016, 13:33 - D Rouse: Arerrrrrrgh. STEARING
128713/02/2016, 13:34 - J Malawana: I would personally suggest we have this on JDC-L
128813/02/2016, 13:35 - D Tooth: Well I don't think there are too many GPC on the juniors Listserver. They would be predominantly juniors, right!?
128913/02/2016, 13:35 - J Malawana: I don't think it matters as I am happy to defend the Gp supplement till the cows come home.
129013/02/2016, 13:35 - D Rouse: Ok
129113/02/2016, 13:35 - J Malawana: So let's just have the discussion in the open so no one has any doubt that we don't stifle debate etc.
129213/02/2016, 13:35 - D Rouse: Chair perogaritive
129313/02/2016, 13:35 - J Malawana: :-)
129413/02/2016, 13:36 - D Rouse: Lol look at you welding power Malawana
129513/02/2016, 13:52 - B Roberts: Just to clarify, my Marxist event wasn't badges as that, I had an invitation via the BMA in London to give a contract update to students in Swansea. The employment adviser and I only realised what was going on when someone put up a Welsh language Swansea Marxists sign. We feel we were duped into attending a political event because they didn't once mention they were Marxists and had advertised the event to Labour Party members and Momentum. I was wearing red shoes, I hope that wasn't too political a statement...
129613/02/2016, 13:54 - C Sheridan: "Chief Welsh Doc: I was tricked into becoming a Marxist!" Just predicting the daily mail headline Bethan...
129713/02/2016, 13:55 - B Roberts: I had a copy of Das Kapital in my bag. Not even kidding...
129813/02/2016, 14:43 - K Mohan: Have you guys seen Greg pearson's post on JDC listserver?
129913/02/2016, 14:43 - K Mohan: Awful.
130013/02/2016, 14:44 - A Borbora: Yes I saw that. I'm sure there's more to it than it seems. Hope the individual is found safe and well soon.
130113/02/2016, 14:46 - A Borbora: This is why we need to be factual in our presentation - I don't want to needlessly distress and frighten people. The bad stuff will speak for itself but we shouldn't be worrying our members with inaccurate stuff like 40% pay cuts.
130213/02/2016, 14:49 - A Borbora: I know of someone talking off selling their house as they say they can't afford the mortgage if they had a 30% pay cut. ??
130313/02/2016, 14:50 - A Borbora: The destabilising effect of the imposition is awful
130413/02/2016, 14:54 - C Castles: Fucking hell, just read it, that's awful
130513/02/2016, 14:55 - A Yassaee: That's truly terrible.
130613/02/2016, 15:23 - D Rouse: Sorry what's he put
130713/02/2016, 15:23 - D Rouse: Where
130813/02/2016, 15:23 - D Rouse: Can you link it on here
130913/02/2016, 15:24 - C Castles: Its on jdc listserver
131013/02/2016, 15:24 - C Castles: Subject - junior doctor missing
131113/02/2016, 15:26 - D Rouse: Omg
131213/02/2016, 15:33 - L J Davis: This is just horrible. Hope she's found safe & well
131313/02/2016, 15:34 - J Malawana: Just to be absolutely clear I don't think the BMA or anyone in the BMA would ever condone or encourage people to scare people into anything like this. I am sure emotions will run high but this is a highly emotional time and lots of things will come up that could easily be used to divide junior docs and turn people against each other.
131413/02/2016, 15:34 - D Rouse: Johann we need to extend support to the family
131513/02/2016, 15:37 - A Collins: Fucking hell. ??????
131613/02/2016, 15:40 - A Borbora: Yes totally we just need to be careful. Difficult times all round.
131713/02/2016, 15:42 - K Mohan: Absolutely agree with Johann. I tried to articulate something like that earlier but gave up as couldn't find the right  words.
131813/02/2016, 15:43 - K Mohan: David, I don't think it's completely public knowledge yet.
131913/02/2016, 15:43 - K Mohan: it's in the media but not that she's a junior doctor. and the note hasn't been mentioned although apparently the info has been leaked which is why people know about it.
132013/02/2016, 15:44 - D Rouse: Ok
132113/02/2016, 15:44 - D Rouse: I think LJD and I as professional issues need to do something to high light support services available to doctors at this time.
132213/02/2016, 15:45 - D Rouse: It needs to be massively explicit
132313/02/2016, 15:45 - D Tooth: This is dreadful. Where is it being reported
132413/02/2016, 15:45 - K Mohan: i just think we need to be very sensitive and not point fingers internally or externally.
132513/02/2016, 15:46 - D Tooth: Absolutely very measured
132613/02/2016, 15:47 - K Mohan: personally i don;t think it matters who says what we just need to wait for the moment as i think this will break later today unless she is found and hopefuly she is - and then highlight the available services.  personally i think this is everyone's role not linked to a position. i.e. we should all spread the details to our networks.
132713/02/2016, 15:47 - K Mohan: local media.
132813/02/2016, 15:47 - D Rouse: I am not ponying fingers
132913/02/2016, 15:47 - D Rouse: At anyone anywhere
133013/02/2016, 15:47 - D Rouse: I am saying
133113/02/2016, 15:47 - L J Davis: I've just posted something very bland about not panicking on fbgod.
133213/02/2016, 15:48 - D Rouse: Moving forward we need to make sure this is valuable resource is known about
133313/02/2016, 15:48 - D Rouse: And is public as it can be
133413/02/2016, 15:48 - K Mohan: i'm not sure why you take everything to mean you but i wasn't talking about anyone in particular david
133513/02/2016, 15:48 - A Yassaee: I saw that - I think we needed to say something at least.
133613/02/2016, 15:48 - L J Davis: If ppl want to keep it bumped and add info on Drs for Drs, etc...
133713/02/2016, 15:48 - C Castles: Anyone have a link to the news report?
133813/02/2016, 15:48 - K Mohan: i wasn't really sure what you meant
133913/02/2016, 15:48 - K Mohan: yes i do
134013/02/2016, 15:48 - D Rouse: Because you said it. After I posted that
134113/02/2016, 15:48 - K Mohan: sorry i mean i didn't really get what the fb post meant
134213/02/2016, 15:49 - L J Davis: NOT speculating on this. Just
134313/02/2016, 15:49 - L J Davis: Re-iterating that we're listening & not to panic
134413/02/2016, 15:49 - K Mohan: david please. we're in a stream of consciousness whatsapp feed. i was responding to joann's comments.
134513/02/2016, 15:49 - K Mohan: Johann even
134613/02/2016, 15:50 - L J Davis: Kitty; I've had several 'conversations' this morning with people who are worried/frightened... Just want to say the BMA are quiet but calmly working through things.
134713/02/2016, 15:50 - C Castles: Wait till the news hits that group, they'll go nuts over it
134813/02/2016, 15:50 - D Rouse: Which is the worse thing they can do
134913/02/2016, 15:51 - D Rouse: Some of the people on there are not moderate
135013/02/2016, 15:51 - L J Davis: Can't reassure completely; but I have pointed out to some that the new contract doesn't come in until August...
135113/02/2016, 15:51 - D Rouse: And can you imagine if you are her friend family last thing you want is people yelling out stuff in her name
135213/02/2016, 15:53 - A Yassaee: I know it's a horrid thing to say but I fear people are going to think this is a gamechanger and will try and publicise it. I'm not really looking forward to that news being more widely known.
135313/02/2016, 15:54 - D Rouse: Exactly people will use this and it is wrong to
135413/02/2016, 15:54 - D Rouse: This is a private and sad moment for someone's family.
135513/02/2016, 15:54 - D Rouse: I hope they find her
135613/02/2016, 15:55 - A Yassaee: I think your suggestions were sensible David.
135713/02/2016, 15:55 - D Rouse: Thanks
135813/02/2016, 15:56 - A Yassaee: I think we need to do that swiftly.
135913/02/2016, 15:58 - C Castles: That group will immediately accuse hunt of manslaughter or something. Can we get something ready to release as soon as the info goes public, to try and preempt anyone being inappropriate
136013/02/2016, 15:59 - D Rouse: Sadly nothing we say will stop that I fear Conan. They will claim corporate man slaughter or something
136113/02/2016, 15:59 - A Yassaee: And it case I wasn't clear - I also meant the point about the family David.
136213/02/2016, 15:59 - D Rouse: Thanks. X
136313/02/2016, 16:00 - D Tooth: Yes but I think we have to distance ourselves from that.
136413/02/2016, 16:00 - A Yassaee: They will, but really brutally, unless we say something ourselves, they will throw this at us as deeply distasteful. And possibly blame us for peddling misinformation.
136513/02/2016, 16:01 - D Rouse: Look let's see how this goes
136613/02/2016, 16:01 - D Rouse: She may be well
136713/02/2016, 16:01 - D Rouse: And just scared upset and in need of help
136813/02/2016, 16:01 - D Rouse: I really hope that's case
136913/02/2016, 16:01 - K Mohan: in my mind any press statement needs to offer condolences and mention support services available for doctors needing help. sensitively of course.
137013/02/2016, 16:02 - K Mohan: as said, currently, it's not public she is a JD. Hopefully it will stay that way for a while longer and they find her safe.
137113/02/2016, 16:03 - A Yassaee: Lottie has just posted a link to D4D ??
137213/02/2016, 16:03 - A Borbora: Yes let's hope so David
137313/02/2016, 16:03 - A Borbora: I'll certainly promote such support on my networks
137413/02/2016, 16:04 - C Castles: Can we please have something ready to release, just in case - that group will latch on to it very quickly, and if we can release asap, it might stem some of the inappropriate reactions.
137513/02/2016, 16:05 - C Castles: Just saying to remain calm, think of the family, wait till we see more info etc
137613/02/2016, 16:05 - C Castles: Just in case
137713/02/2016, 16:05 - D Rouse: I think that is sensible. Perhaps you can drop Johann and email conan
137813/02/2016, 16:05 - A Borbora: Not suggesting the Bma would ever do this but in the past people have attempted to exploit tragedies for political gain and we need to make sure that doesn't happen here (as far as possible)
137913/02/2016, 16:08 - D Rouse: Anyone doing this should be named and shamed
138013/02/2016, 16:08 - D Rouse: I don't care who they are
138113/02/2016, 16:08 - D Rouse: Thrown to the FBGoD
138213/02/2016, 16:08 - D Rouse: And left
138313/02/2016, 16:09 - A Borbora: I'm worried that the group will be the ones doing it
138413/02/2016, 16:09 - A Borbora: Hunt the murderer etc
138513/02/2016, 16:10 - A Borbora: Or this kind of thing 
1386http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chronically-ill-dad-kills-himself-6109369
1387
1388Very distasteful
138913/02/2016, 16:10 - A Borbora: Not sure that there's much we can do but the suggestions above seem good ones
139013/02/2016, 17:06 - B Roberts: Must. Not. Look. At. FBGoD.
139113/02/2016, 17:10 - A Yassaee: LJD you are sweet-talking machine
139213/02/2016, 17:16 - L J Davis: I'm trying my best...
139313/02/2016, 17:16 - L J Davis: But thank you :)
139413/02/2016, 17:17 - L J Davis: The news of rose missing has hit FB via Twitter... & is on fbgod. :(
139513/02/2016, 17:19 - A Borbora: Oh dear.
139613/02/2016, 17:37 - C Castles: What's being said? I dont see it on fb?
139713/02/2016, 17:37 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
139813/02/2016, 17:38 - A Yassaee: I completely agree.
139913/02/2016, 17:39 - A Yassaee: It puts to bed the argument that we are misleading members
140013/02/2016, 17:41 - A Borbora: TBC that post didn't come from the Bma or anyone we have control over but it's certainly doing the rounds!
140113/02/2016, 17:44 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Guys i have only intermittently been able to keep up with whatsapp/emails today. Whats this about a missing junior doc? Worrying. Not seeing anything about it on the fbgod...thankfully. Summary?
140213/02/2016, 17:46 - C Castles: Link on the jdc listserver yannis
140313/02/2016, 17:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Christ. Just read it all.
140413/02/2016, 17:57 - K Mohan: I haven't seen it on FB. Thank goodness.
140513/02/2016, 18:20 - L J Davis: Johann; can I suggest you do a fbgod post if/when we have confirmation?
1406"Something like; very sad to hear news, know awful for family, friends & colleagues; sources of support; tonight is not the night for blame/accusations. This can only be a time for care & condolences..."
1407It may help guide the thread...
140813/02/2016, 18:31 - A Yassaee: LJD have you messaged admins about pinning your post?
140913/02/2016, 18:33 - L J Davis: No... How do I do that? Hmmm
141013/02/2016, 18:34 - A Yassaee: If you go to the group's membership, there's a separate list for admins
141113/02/2016, 18:35 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
141213/02/2016, 18:35 - C Castles: I still can't find the post for some reason
141313/02/2016, 18:36 - L J Davis: Not on my phone...
141413/02/2016, 18:36 - L J Davis: Can you do it Arrash?
141513/02/2016, 18:37 - A Yassaee: Go to top of the group. Press info. Press members.
141613/02/2016, 18:37 - A Yassaee: If you can't I'll do it.
141713/02/2016, 18:42 - J Malawana: Has there actually been an announcement?
141813/02/2016, 18:42 - L J Davis: I can't on my phone (my tech support just tried for me!)
141913/02/2016, 18:42 - L J Davis: I don't think so Johann
142013/02/2016, 18:43 - L J Davis: Just think you need to be ready to go if/when. Remind ppl they need to be kind (which they mostly are)
142113/02/2016, 18:46 - A Yassaee: Done LJD
142213/02/2016, 19:00 - L J Davis: Thanks! I guess it's helpful for ppl to see we're listening & also actually humans...
1423(Not like Johann. He's a god. The fbgod.)
142413/02/2016, 19:58 - D Rouse: Have we got confirmation she has passed away??
142513/02/2016, 20:04 - C Castles: Have you heard something David?
142613/02/2016, 20:07 - C Castles: Haven't seen anything online
142713/02/2016, 20:57 - L J Davis: Fbgod reappears with longest ever post...
142813/02/2016, 20:59 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Good post johann. And excellent final paragraph. Can only see it on ur wall tho....is it on the fbgod too?
142913/02/2016, 21:06 - J Malawana: It's at the top of FBGoD. I wanted to make sure I finished it at a reasonable time.
143013/02/2016, 21:07 - J Malawana: I was channeling a bit of Yannis with that one as I got the impression people need some Yannis right now.
143113/02/2016, 21:07 - A Collins: Its blooming marvellous. Loving it.
143213/02/2016, 21:12 - A Yassaee: Big fan of the last paragraph.
143313/02/2016, 21:12 - A Yassaee: (Never thought I'd say that)
143413/02/2016, 21:14 - A Collins: I think we've been changed Arrash.
143513/02/2016, 21:15 - A Yassaee: Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
143613/02/2016, 21:32 - M Redman: Lapping it up along with the rest of the #jofanns
143713/02/2016, 21:32 - M Redman: ??????
143813/02/2016, 21:37 - L J Davis: Is GP a shortage specialty? And is it therefore pay protected (just looking at the listserver, but wanted to check before I post something silly...)
143913/02/2016, 21:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Great stuff johann
144013/02/2016, 23:32 - M Redman: Just skimmed twitter and it is full of people pointing fingers at Cameron.
144113/02/2016, 23:49 - A Yassaee: Juniors?
144213/02/2016, 23:57 - M Redman: Oh yeah. Jr docs I mean.
144314/02/2016, 00:00 - C Castles: on a more positive note - if anyone is interested in a tour of the bushmills distillery at arm this year, like or comment on the arm belfast page.  trying to gauge numbers to see if its a goer
144414/02/2016, 00:04 - D Rouse: Urghhhhhhh I hate the Facebook group of doom
144514/02/2016, 00:04 - D Rouse: Some of the shouty people there
144614/02/2016, 00:20 - A Yassaee: Many will have seen the video doing the rounds, but 54 000 whistle blowers is a decent line, and probably one to feed a few media conversations the next time a Tory spokesperson is interviewed.
144714/02/2016, 01:28 - A Sami: 577 messages later, 
1448I can summarise that I cried for that junior doctor and how she must have felt...
144914/02/2016, 07:52 - L J Davis: I'd like us to support 'tea & empathy' - possibly in the background without BMA badging, but I think that's a really valuable grassroots movement...
145014/02/2016, 08:53 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
145114/02/2016, 09:01 - J Malawana: I need to speak in soundbite apparently.
145214/02/2016, 09:02 - J Malawana: When the grassroots and Ellie and Val repeatedly say the same thing, I guess it must be true.
145314/02/2016, 09:02 - J Malawana: But bloody hell. How on earth do people speak like that
145414/02/2016, 09:02 - J Malawana: ??
145514/02/2016, 09:08 - K Mohan: They basically keep quiet until they have something soundbitey to say.
145614/02/2016, 09:08 - K Mohan: So ssssh
145714/02/2016, 09:09 - D Rouse: Hahha
145814/02/2016, 09:09 - D Rouse: Think tony Blair
145914/02/2016, 09:26 - L J Davis: I took a photo for you Johann..
146014/02/2016, 09:26 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
146114/02/2016, 09:37 - J Malawana: Shall I say totes next time I am interviewed? Deffo!!
146214/02/2016, 09:37 - A Collier No.
146314/02/2016, 09:38 - J Malawana: Have to say I have noticed that Jeeves seems to naturally speak in soundbites.
146414/02/2016, 09:38 - J Malawana: It's weird.
146514/02/2016, 09:38 - A Collier Less is more.
146614/02/2016, 09:39 - J Malawana: Like his baseline style is this soundbite thing. Can see why comms and tv love him. Robert Peston offered him a job this week. Not sure whether he was serious.
146714/02/2016, 09:40 - D Rouse: Gave him
1468His card
146914/02/2016, 09:40 - D Rouse: And asked him to email me
147014/02/2016, 09:40 - D Rouse: Him sorry
147114/02/2016, 09:40 - D Rouse: He was gushing
147214/02/2016, 09:40 - J Malawana: Lol
147314/02/2016, 09:41 - J Malawana: We need to get everyone practicing to speak like Jeeves. Short sharp sentences. Andrew does that very well as well.
147414/02/2016, 09:41 - D Rouse: He said he would be like abh (Asian british hero) Krushna Murphy.  
1475
1476
1477
1478
1479I told him he would be the next Martin Basheer
148014/02/2016, 09:41 - J Malawana: Am guessing it's going to be needed considering this is going on.
148114/02/2016, 09:42 - J Malawana: So need everyone now speaking in soundbites.
148214/02/2016, 09:42 - J Malawana: :-)
148314/02/2016, 09:42 - A Collier Genuine media training is needed for anyone talking to the press. Our current media training (though laudable) isn't very good.
148414/02/2016, 09:42 - C Sheridan: We should try that at JDC meetings - might go quicker!
148514/02/2016, 09:43 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
148614/02/2016, 09:43 - J Malawana: I am rubbish at it so happily leave this stuff to others. Only try and do the radio. I have a face for radio :-). And I love a good fight with swivel eyed loons.
148714/02/2016, 09:44 - J Malawana: My favourite is Roger gale
148814/02/2016, 09:44 - J Malawana: That is one angry mofo.
148914/02/2016, 09:44 - A Collier Sundeep Grewal took an interview I was booked to do on LBC on Friday morning...it was a car crash.
149014/02/2016, 09:45 - J Malawana: Ok so have told JDC they need to think about what our objective is.
149114/02/2016, 09:45 - A Collier He brought up the cost of training doctors, not knowing how the figure of 250,000 to 350,000 is generated and was destroyed by Nick Ferrari.
149214/02/2016, 09:46 - A Collier And then weirdly said..."my wife and child were saved by the NHS..." the interview then came to a weird end.
149314/02/2016, 09:46 - M Redman: Has there been any intra bma backlash 're focusing on Davey babes?
149414/02/2016, 09:47 - L J Davis: As in diva or Cameron, melody?
149514/02/2016, 09:48 - M Redman: Cameron
149614/02/2016, 09:49 - D Rouse: Oi!!!
149714/02/2016, 09:49 - D Rouse: There is no backlash at diva Moët
149814/02/2016, 09:50 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
149914/02/2016, 09:50 - L J Davis: If have thought you'd like a bit of lashing, diva? On Valentine's? Kinky...
150014/02/2016, 09:51 - K Mohan: Everyone should talk in hiaku at JDC - that'll keep it short and sweet.
150114/02/2016, 09:52 - L J Davis: I don't understand haiku. It's like, short poems that don't rhyme? And make no sense?
150214/02/2016, 09:53 - D Rouse: Kitty floats high with grace
1503
1504But incensed with rage she bites
1505
1506Kitty murders Johann
150714/02/2016, 09:53 - D Rouse: There you go
150814/02/2016, 09:54 - D Rouse: 5/7/5 haiku
150914/02/2016, 09:54 - K Mohan: I like that David but one small correction.
151014/02/2016, 09:54 - K Mohan: /amendment
151114/02/2016, 09:55 - D Rouse: Love it's syllables not words
151214/02/2016, 09:55 - D Rouse: Oh ok
151314/02/2016, 09:55 - K Mohan: Kitty floats high with grace
1514
1515But incensed with rage she bites
1516
1517Kitty murders David
151814/02/2016, 09:55 - A Collier Well the first line has 6 syllables to start with!
151914/02/2016, 09:55 - K Mohan: ;)))
152014/02/2016, 09:55 - D Rouse: Nooo
152114/02/2016, 09:55 - A Collier As does the last
152214/02/2016, 09:55 - D Rouse: Kitty is said quickly
152314/02/2016, 09:55 - D Rouse: ;-)
152414/02/2016, 09:55 - D Rouse: So it blurrs into one word
152514/02/2016, 09:56 - J Malawana: Melody I don't ask about posts from my personal accounts and I have been clear that politics and policy is my responsibility listening to you and JDC. They can advise but they can't dictate. It's inappropriate for the civil service to dictate political decisions.
152614/02/2016, 09:57 - J Malawana: Lol. David be scared.
152714/02/2016, 09:57 - J Malawana: When she kills you it won't be swift. It will be painful.
152814/02/2016, 09:58 - K Mohan: Easily changed: 
1529
1530Kitty floats with grace
1531
1532But incensed with rage she bites
1533
1534Kitty kills Johann
153514/02/2016, 09:58 - K Mohan: You're off the hook now David. :)
153614/02/2016, 09:58 - J Malawana: Bites.
153714/02/2016, 09:58 - J Malawana: Hmm
153814/02/2016, 09:58 - J Malawana: Well pinching hurts like crazy so can only imagine what bites does
153914/02/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: For now I am
154014/02/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: Kitty is like a game of thrones with her aspirations to murdwr
154114/02/2016, 09:59 - K Mohan: Anyway. That was fun.
154214/02/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: I swear the final twist would be everyone in the room dead
154314/02/2016, 09:59 - K Mohan: I don't watch game of throne so the reference is lost on me.
154414/02/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: And kitty and tim Y sit in the chairs seat next to each other
154514/02/2016, 10:00 - D Rouse: It's all along been kityates
154614/02/2016, 10:00 - J Malawana: David. What's wrong with you?
154714/02/2016, 10:00 - J Malawana: Are you looking to be ended
154814/02/2016, 10:00 - D Rouse: And Andrews last dying breath
154914/02/2016, 10:00 - L J Davis: Yep
155014/02/2016, 10:00 - D Rouse: Looks up
155114/02/2016, 10:00 - D Rouse: I could write game of thrones
155214/02/2016, 10:00 - K Mohan: I'm confused. Is he hallucinating.
155314/02/2016, 10:00 - K Mohan: Ah. Please don't.
155414/02/2016, 10:00 - J Malawana: It's like you can see the train coming and yet you keep walking down the rails
155514/02/2016, 10:01 - A Collier I'm on tenterhooks....What do I say with my last dying breath?
155614/02/2016, 10:01 - L J Davis: Possibly
155714/02/2016, 10:01 - D Rouse: I love you!
155814/02/2016, 10:01 - D Rouse: But who you do love
155914/02/2016, 10:01 - L J Davis: To Darshan
156014/02/2016, 10:01 - J Malawana: Andrew says that to who?
156114/02/2016, 10:01 - L J Davis: ??
156214/02/2016, 10:01 - J Malawana: You?
156314/02/2016, 10:01 - D Rouse: Yes that's the cliff hanger
156414/02/2016, 10:01 - A Collier But it's not clear who...I like it
156514/02/2016, 10:01 - J Malawana: Oh Darshan
156614/02/2016, 10:01 - A Collier Rosebud
156714/02/2016, 10:01 - D Rouse: No I am dead me and LJD poisoned each other trying to poisoon Johann
156814/02/2016, 10:02 - D Rouse: Who knew we'd done the whole bottle and not just the glass
156914/02/2016, 10:02 - L J Davis: Yeah. Like "kiss me, Darshan!"
157014/02/2016, 10:02 - L J Davis: (Not kismet. That's just the wrong ending)
157114/02/2016, 10:02 - J Malawana: I am reminded on a regular basis to check anything you give me to eat as it's likely to be poisoned. Ushering in the age of diva Dave.
157214/02/2016, 10:02 - D Rouse: It will be glorious age
157314/02/2016, 10:03 - L J Davis: Curried goat, anyone?
157414/02/2016, 10:03 - D Rouse: Hah
157514/02/2016, 10:03 - L J Davis: I hear it'd delicious!
157614/02/2016, 10:03 - J Malawana: Can wait for the curried goat
157714/02/2016, 10:03 - D Rouse: Will be compulsory to wear hats
157814/02/2016, 10:03 - D Rouse: In Jdc meetings
157914/02/2016, 10:03 - L J Davis: That's how to lure Johann to your meeting, apparently
158014/02/2016, 10:03 - L J Davis: Can I wear a tiara?
158114/02/2016, 10:04 - J Malawana: Have been salivating thinking about Tuesday m. LJD is serving curried goat at the rjdc
158214/02/2016, 10:04 - J Malawana: I am hoping jerk sauce. Bit of jollof rice.
158314/02/2016, 10:04 - J Malawana: God I am getting excited n
158414/02/2016, 10:04 - J Malawana: Can't wait.
158514/02/2016, 10:05 - J Malawana: And not in a dodgy way diva Dave. Before you start.
158614/02/2016, 10:07 - L J Davis: Sadly, I can't claim credit. It's our fab new regional person... Part of the great new experiment. She's helping me with the divisional mtg that's now joint with the rjdc (did I mention...?) ??
158714/02/2016, 10:09 - L J Davis: Council members... Big ?? to the new regional person. Oh and the legend that is sean cusack. I just ?? that man. He's amazing.
158814/02/2016, 10:09 - D Rouse: LJD you can wear a crown if u eBay
158914/02/2016, 10:09 - L J Davis: Why do you think I don't already have a tiara?
159014/02/2016, 10:09 - L J Davis: Doh!
159114/02/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: Hahaha
159214/02/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: If you want
159314/02/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: Nothing to do with eBay
159414/02/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: Though i may buy it on there
159514/02/2016, 10:12 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
159614/02/2016, 10:13 - L J Davis: See!
159714/02/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: Awwwww
159814/02/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: When we rule Jdc I expect bette
159914/02/2016, 10:13 - L J Davis: Pipe cleaners not good enough for you?
160014/02/2016, 10:14 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
160114/02/2016, 10:14 - D Rouse: Expecting ru Paul
160214/02/2016, 10:14 - D Rouse: Eak
160314/02/2016, 10:14 - D Rouse: Esk*
160414/02/2016, 10:15 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
160514/02/2016, 10:15 - D Rouse: That would also be acceptable
160614/02/2016, 10:15 - D Rouse: Infact I think would look fab on Collins
160714/02/2016, 10:20 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
160814/02/2016, 10:20 - L J Davis: Isn't that Adam in the middle of yours?
160914/02/2016, 10:21 - L J Davis: That'd be very meta if he wore it; a crown with the image of yourself in the middle...
161014/02/2016, 10:22 - L J Davis: Haiku I don't get.
1611Jewellery? Oh yes. I *get* that :)
161214/02/2016, 10:23 - A Collins: Everything looks fab on me...
161314/02/2016, 10:24 - D Rouse: Haha
161414/02/2016, 10:24 - D Rouse: So is curried goat nice
161514/02/2016, 10:25 - L J Davis: Johann said it was fatty and chewy.
161614/02/2016, 10:25 - L J Davis: I'm not convinced. Plus I don't like anything hot spicy. So I may bring a sandwich :)
161714/02/2016, 10:42 - D Rouse: Awww LJD
161814/02/2016, 10:42 - D Rouse: Ham and cheese?
161914/02/2016, 11:03 - L J Davis: Baguette; prosciutto & pickles
162014/02/2016, 11:05 - D Rouse: Oooooo
162114/02/2016, 11:06 - D Rouse: Bring one for me on the next Jdc meeting
162214/02/2016, 11:06 - D Rouse: Sounds lush
162314/02/2016, 11:13 - B Roberts: Spam is very much back on the menu, I see.
162414/02/2016, 11:13 - D Rouse: This isn't for policy
162514/02/2016, 11:13 - D Rouse: As we've all said
162614/02/2016, 11:13 - D Rouse: For bonding and highlighting
162714/02/2016, 11:13 - D Rouse: :-P
162814/02/2016, 11:15 - L J Davis: Spam fried in lard... How 40s
162914/02/2016, 11:16 - B Roberts: I enjoyed catching up with the spam. Especially the haikus and the Romeo and Juliet sub-plot.
163014/02/2016, 11:29 - K Mohan: I'm confused. If we're not "spamming" and if we're not talking policy what are we meant to be discussing on this group.
163114/02/2016, 11:31 - A Yassaee: Feelings?
163214/02/2016, 11:51 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Valentines wishes
163314/02/2016, 11:51 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Group therapy
163414/02/2016, 12:33 - M Redman: Crystal maze
163514/02/2016, 13:21 - D Rouse: Oooooo you can book in for a crystal maze day looks brilliant
163614/02/2016, 14:52 - L J Davis: Tiaras
163714/02/2016, 16:05 - C Castles: Just catching up - Andrew, good job on spelling tenterhooks the correct way
163814/02/2016, 16:05 - C Castles: And a crystal meth day sounds good
163914/02/2016, 16:12 - A Collins: In tiaras, don't forget
164014/02/2016, 16:15 - C Castles: Crystal meth in tiaras?
164114/02/2016, 16:23 - H Carter: I'm sure you are all aware that it has 'broken' that the missing person is a junior doctor. The daily mail has reported it and Una Coales has shared the story with the FBGoD.
164214/02/2016, 16:24 - C Castles: Was just about to post that too Harry. Its suddenly national news now they know she is a junior
164314/02/2016, 16:25 - J Malawana: Nat silvey is tweeting about it
164414/02/2016, 16:25 - J Malawana: Which means the DH are probably preparing.
164514/02/2016, 16:25 - J Malawana: Which means they will try and off load the blame.
164614/02/2016, 16:26 - H Carter: I think we must be clear though that this story doesn't get mixed into the mud slinging between the DH and us.
164714/02/2016, 16:27 - J Malawana: I don't want to go near this
164814/02/2016, 16:27 - J Malawana: Ellie and I discussed it yesterday
164914/02/2016, 16:28 - J Malawana: Keeping well away
165014/02/2016, 16:28 - H Carter: I think the DH will be getting the same advice.
165114/02/2016, 20:53 - K Mohan: Hello. quick question - and depending on answer it may be better to move to list server. I see Steven Bishop has published an updated pay calculator. It's not an official BMA pay calculator presumably. Regardless is there a way to feed back comments or should we contact him directly.
165214/02/2016, 21:05 - A Borbora: Have you got a link?
165314/02/2016, 21:09 - K Mohan: Not to hand - I downloaded it from FB.
165414/02/2016, 21:13 - A Borbora: Ok I'll have a look
165514/02/2016, 21:29 - K Mohan: the comments on the conservative home article johann posted on fb are eye-watering mostly due to the complete confusion out there about who juniors are and about our "weekend opt out" and how some specialities "don't work weekend obviously". i'd recommend avoiding.
165614/02/2016, 21:30 - K Mohan: oh and we've only been in negotiations since the end of last year as the last lot weren't "serious". grrr
165714/02/2016, 21:32 - C Castles: WHAT?
165814/02/2016, 21:32 - C Castles: bastards
165914/02/2016, 22:03 - A Yassaee: So i think that comment is sympathetic to us
166014/02/2016, 22:03 - A Yassaee: If its the same one i read earlier
166114/02/2016, 22:07 - K Mohan: The article is sympathetic. My comment was really that I think the comments are really quite confused and betray a deep misunderstanding about how we work. Not surprising perhaps but people seem genuinely keen to correct each other. Wrongly.
166214/02/2016, 22:15 - C Castles: Quick poll- is shit an acceptable word on listserver?
166314/02/2016, 22:15 - C Castles: Not in a defamatory way btw
166414/02/2016, 22:16 - M Redman: Might make it look less professional and so make your point taken less seriously
166514/02/2016, 22:16 - A Yassaee: Which? JDC?
166614/02/2016, 22:17 - M Redman: But it's been done before so you wouldn't be the first
166714/02/2016, 22:17 - A Collier I don't think it is. I wouldn't use it but equally I wouldn't be offended
166814/02/2016, 22:17 - B Roberts: "Pissed" had made an appearance on the list server.
166914/02/2016, 22:18 - A Yassaee: I'd keep it to x2 on JDC. x5 on exec
167014/02/2016, 22:18 - K Mohan: Per email? :)
167114/02/2016, 22:18 - A Yassaee: Yes
167214/02/2016, 22:18 - A Yassaee: But averaged over weekly emails to allow flexibility
167314/02/2016, 22:18 - K Mohan: Amazing. #arrashforprimeminister
167414/02/2016, 22:20 - K Mohan: I'm really hoping melody is coming up with a #fannis equivalent for you, Areash.
167514/02/2016, 22:20 - M Redman: There should be a Collier dictionary
167614/02/2016, 22:20 - K Mohan: Arrash even
167714/02/2016, 22:20 - K Mohan: :(
167814/02/2016, 22:20 - M Redman: #spreadinglikearrash
167914/02/2016, 22:20 - K Mohan: Lol
168014/02/2016, 22:21 - M Redman: #googlearrash
168114/02/2016, 22:21 - K Mohan: Since when did Andrew become the "swearing rule maker". I swear way more than him.
168214/02/2016, 22:22 - M Redman: I mean a dictionary of alternate words to swear words with his exquisite vocabulary
168314/02/2016, 22:23 - C Castles: shit is acceptable on daytime rte radio
168414/02/2016, 22:23 - C Castles: but then we swear casually a lot as a fucking country
168514/02/2016, 22:24 - K Mohan: Andrew apologised before he said shit once in a negs pre-meet so swearing was referred to as "doing a collier".
168614/02/2016, 22:24 - K Mohan: Alex Hamilton coined the phrase I thjnk.
168714/02/2016, 22:24 - A Collier And oh how I loved that ??
168814/02/2016, 22:24 - K Mohan: :))))
168914/02/2016, 22:26 - A Yassaee: The guardian printed "shit"
169014/02/2016, 22:26 - D Rouse: Sounds like everyone on here wants to do a collier tonight
169114/02/2016, 22:26 - C Castles: I once posted a link to a website on jdc-l that turned out to have pictures of ladies in states of undress
169214/02/2016, 22:26 - C Castles: in my defense, i meant to send it to the old negotiating team listserver
169314/02/2016, 22:29 - C Castles: and, in my defense the website address was the name of someone on jdc at the time
169414/02/2016, 22:29 - C Castles: if its ok in the guardian, its ok for my email. sent
169514/02/2016, 22:35 - K Mohan: Just read the email. Lol.
169614/02/2016, 22:38 - C Castles: i hyphenated to lessen the impact
169714/02/2016, 22:38 - C Castles: i'm waiting for andrew to notice...
169814/02/2016, 22:40 - Z Greaves: Apparently frequent sweating is actually an indicator of a breadth vocabulary and not the inverse as you'd think
169914/02/2016, 22:41 - Z Greaves: Tho I may have read that on buzz feed or eqv so it's probably not true
170014/02/2016, 22:42 - C Castles: Frequent sweating? Really?
170114/02/2016, 22:57 - Z Greaves: Lol swearing - I do it so little even my autocorrect thinks I've made a mistake ??
170214/02/2016, 23:49 - C Castles: Guys - I'm just about to send a rather difficult email to the listserver.  I would like to say that it is intended as a criticism of the process, not exec, and not any particular person/people.
170314/02/2016, 23:50 - D Rouse: What's the topic
170414/02/2016, 23:50 - C Castles: the steering group remit
170514/02/2016, 23:51 - C Castles: and the function of the negs team
170614/02/2016, 23:52 - D Rouse: Has it been sent
170714/02/2016, 23:55 - C Castles: yeah
170814/02/2016, 23:56 - D Rouse: Conan there were GPS
170914/02/2016, 23:57 - D Rouse: Three
171014/02/2016, 23:57 - D Rouse: In fact
171114/02/2016, 23:57 - D Rouse: Bee shaz and Jeeves
171214/02/2016, 23:57 - D Rouse: All three go trainees
171314/02/2016, 23:58 - C Castles: i'm aware of the members of the team.  i believed they were  there to negotiate a position decided by SG, not to represent GPs.  they were meant to be chosen by ability, not trainee role
171414/02/2016, 23:59 - D Rouse: Yes but just saying people there were GPS
171514/02/2016, 23:59 - C Castles: that is irrelevant to my concerns
171615/02/2016, 00:00 - D Rouse: Well one is GP are not represented when I thought they were represented quite heavily in comparison
171715/02/2016, 00:01 - C Castles: i dont believe anywhere i said that GPs weren't represented. i said the gp trainee rep to exec didn't have a vote on exec, but did on sg. the same as the devolved nation reps
171815/02/2016, 00:02 - D Rouse: This meant several groups found themselves without direct representation on the negotiations team - the devolved nations and GP trainees specifically
171915/02/2016, 00:02 - D Rouse: Yes u did
172015/02/2016, 00:02 - D Rouse: Just saying
172115/02/2016, 00:03 - D Rouse: I might be misreading it
172215/02/2016, 00:03 - D Rouse: But does that not mean that
172315/02/2016, 00:03 - C Castles: i did not believe they were meant to representing GPs
172415/02/2016, 00:03 - C Castles: perhaps i could have worded it better
172515/02/2016, 00:04 - D Rouse: Okay I am just confused there that's all
172615/02/2016, 00:04 - D Rouse: Lol
172715/02/2016, 00:04 - D Rouse: I am only down to that paragraph
172815/02/2016, 00:04 - D Rouse: I shall continue reading
172915/02/2016, 00:05 - D Rouse: Who told you to stay out specifically ?
173015/02/2016, 00:05 - C Castles: BMA london
173115/02/2016, 00:06 - D Rouse: As in elected memebrs
173215/02/2016, 00:06 - D Rouse: Or
173315/02/2016, 00:06 - D Rouse: Secretariat
173415/02/2016, 00:07 - C Castles: probably a joint decision, though i was told through NIC, so I dont know for sure who told them. it was at a meeting that i believe had secretariat and elected officers
173515/02/2016, 00:08 - D Rouse: Officers as in me
173615/02/2016, 00:08 - D Rouse: Or officers as in Northern Ireland officers
173715/02/2016, 00:09 - D Rouse: ?
173815/02/2016, 00:10 - C Castles: the chief officers of the association i would have guessed
173915/02/2016, 00:10 - D Rouse: Right.  As i was not aware that had been said to you
174015/02/2016, 00:17 - A Collins: I think the under representation issue is a red herring.
174115/02/2016, 00:17 - A Collins: But the issues about how decisions are made are valid
174215/02/2016, 00:18 - A Collins: But are also not for now. But valuable for the future
174315/02/2016, 00:19 - C Castles: the representation wasn't the main issue, it was more intended as background to why i placed such faith in the steering group
174415/02/2016, 00:19 - A Collins: Fair
174515/02/2016, 00:19 - A Collins: I'm tired. Full reply later
174615/02/2016, 00:19 - C Castles: i also was happy last year to accept the structure of the negs team, based on the proposed method of interaction with the sg - my issue wasn't with the structure of the negs team
174715/02/2016, 12:44 - K Mohan: have any of you been contacted by abi rimmer to comment in bmj. if so i'm answering her questions too - would prob best be singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak. (deliberately not posted on list server).
174815/02/2016, 12:56 - A Borbora: Please could the negs people do the doodle poll I sent round? I want to get this meeting sorted ASAP
174915/02/2016, 13:17 - K Mohan: they've found the missing junior doctor's hoodie on the beach. so awful. http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/LIVE-Breaking-news-latest-updates-February-15/story-28724088-detail/story.html
175015/02/2016, 13:18 - K Mohan: better link apparently. http://24live.co/b4u
175115/02/2016, 13:20 - A Sami: So heart breaking that I feel I might punch Hjnt in the face now!
175215/02/2016, 13:20 - A Sami: Hunt*
175315/02/2016, 13:21 - K Mohan: i know, Amjad. I feel the same. So desperately sad.
175415/02/2016, 13:25 - A Sami: Two days after the strike she supported AND THE IMPOSITION ANNOUNCEMENT BY JEREMEY *UNT!! is missing from that article
175515/02/2016, 14:56 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Its very sad...but suicide is complex. So i would be careful r.e presumptions as to the cause.
175615/02/2016, 15:49 - J Malawana: We are assuming this will be turned on us BMA etc and I will be accused of whipping people up etc. 
1757
1758Ben Gummer is currently down there and is talking to juniors and the family (father is a well respected Gp). 
1759
1760Let's wait and see how this pans out but please don't feel the urge to speak out as a BMA rep at all as it won't help. I have told everyone that we should not be commenting as its so sad that it's not right. It's been quite upsetting and frankly I might just say something wholly inappropriate if the JDC listserver says anything further that I think is pathetically juvenile and selfish. 
1761
1762Was just in Norwich. >50 juniors turned up for the mess meeting. All want to fight. I tried to specifically go through the positives etc. Answer was still to fight.
176315/02/2016, 16:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Agree. This tragic situation is no place for individual JDC or social media discussion. Any public statements should be carefully thought through and released only be chair of JDC or chair of council.
176415/02/2016, 16:22 - Z Greaves: On a slightly different note, are we giving out any info/resource to RJDC chairs for meetings this week?  Ours is tonight - I may not be able to get there and John is therefore going to be unsupported by anyone from exec
176515/02/2016, 20:37 - L J Davis: Gosh. Quiet innit?
176615/02/2016, 21:02 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The deep breath before the plunge
176715/02/2016, 21:23 - L J Davis: Into?
176815/02/2016, 21:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The End Game
176915/02/2016, 21:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: :-)
177015/02/2016, 22:24 - A Sami: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/15/weekend-effect-on-hospital-deaths-not-proven-say-hunts-own-officials?CMP=share_btn_tw
177115/02/2016, 22:28 - L J Davis: 5000 new GPs "a challenge". Lol.
177215/02/2016, 22:29 - L J Davis: Interesting no mention of juniors directly related to the leaked report.
1773
1774But excellent ammunition for consultants...
177515/02/2016, 23:19 - C Castles: just a quick check - did the Keogh paper show that wednesday had the highest mortality of any day of the week, or was that a different paper?
177615/02/2016, 23:55 - A Yassaee: I think so.
177715/02/2016, 23:56 - C Castles: i thought so too, but cant find it explicitly stated for some reason
177815/02/2016, 23:57 - A Yassaee: One of the figures perhaps?
177915/02/2016, 23:57 - A Yassaee: Maybe they didnt say it
178015/02/2016, 23:57 - C Castles: i'm sure i heard it somewhere
178115/02/2016, 23:57 - C Castles: maybe you're right, maybe someone else looking at the paper commented on it
178216/02/2016, 00:27 - D Rouse: Man it's chilly tonigh
178316/02/2016, 00:29 - A Yassaee: Out of interest, is the legal challenge route looking remotely fruitful or are we just thinking it'll be a nuisance for them?
178416/02/2016, 00:46 - J Malawana: There will be things to challenge. But they are hard to know until we see much more detail
178516/02/2016, 01:03 - D Rouse: Go to bed Johann
178616/02/2016, 07:07 - K Mohan: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/missing-junior-doctor-rose-polge-7378394#ICID=sharebar_twitter
178716/02/2016, 07:18 - C Castles: Oh dear
178816/02/2016, 07:45 - M Redman: ??
178916/02/2016, 08:32 - L J Davis: Oh oracle, who are the people's assembly?
179016/02/2016, 08:33 - A Collier A coalition of left wing/socialist groups
179116/02/2016, 08:33 - A Collier There is quite an active branch/group in Manchester
179216/02/2016, 08:34 - K Mohan: There's a meeting ?tomorrow night in london. Yannis is speaking.
179316/02/2016, 08:38 - L J Davis: Should we be supporting their march locally?
179416/02/2016, 08:46 - J Malawana: We have to be careful about people's assembly and momentum organisations and their events.
179516/02/2016, 08:47 - L J Davis: Ok.
179616/02/2016, 08:49 - K Mohan: By we you mean the BMA I think? Many of our members support in their own right. (I ask as otherwise I need to say something to my region).
179716/02/2016, 08:53 - J Malawana: Yes. I mean BMA
179816/02/2016, 08:53 - J Malawana: Not individuals
179916/02/2016, 08:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Yup. The coalition is also very much becoming a single entity. They have good links with other trade unionist. They are pretty sound. Not 'ultraleft adventurists'...which is why the SWP doesnt like them. I know the chair. Very supportive.
180016/02/2016, 08:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: They organised the massive half a million strong antiausterity march last summer...
180116/02/2016, 08:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Am speaking at an event in london organised with them tmro. They have managed to get Ken Loach filmaker to speak too.
180216/02/2016, 09:02 - L J Davis: Think I may be about to get flamed on our regional whatsapp
180316/02/2016, 09:06 - L J Davis: No; very reasonable response. Phew!
180416/02/2016, 10:22 - J Malawana: Just so exec are aware and this is private. We are likely to be able to launch a JR on Monday. It will outlined on Saturday and our legal department is working it up. It will be around equalities legislation. At this stage it's obviously very sensitive so I would appreciate if this isn't shared outside of exec. 
1805
1806The team are looking at all other options and as we have detail we will try and find ways of challenging this.
180716/02/2016, 10:23 - J Malawana: It is unlikely to be the magic bullet. But it will help to show our willingness to fight which is politically important both to members but also to the government.
180816/02/2016, 10:40 - Z Greaves: Jr?
180916/02/2016, 10:41 - A Yassaee: Judicial review i presume
181016/02/2016, 10:44 - Z Greaves: Ah of course
181116/02/2016, 11:45 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
181216/02/2016, 11:45 - D Rouse: My friend is a recruitment consultant
181316/02/2016, 11:49 - D Rouse: Just thought people would find that interesting
181416/02/2016, 11:53 - L J Davis: Anyone applying?
181516/02/2016, 11:53 - A Collins: Not through David's friend but...
181616/02/2016, 12:10 - D Rouse: Just saying
181716/02/2016, 12:11 - D Rouse: That really the deal we get isn't amazing
181816/02/2016, 12:11 - D Rouse: Using as exampl
181916/02/2016, 12:43 - A Borbora: What would be the point of the review? Re-open negs? Force specific changes in the contract?
182016/02/2016, 13:12 - L J Davis: Stop the imposition/implementation, surely?
182116/02/2016, 13:14 - K Mohan: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12159537/Missing-junior-doctor-Rose-Polge-left-note-addressed-to-Jeremy-Hunt.html
182216/02/2016, 13:16 - A Collins: Shit.
182316/02/2016, 13:31 - Z Greaves: Can we send out an email - not referencing this - but reminding juniors of the support available at this time?
182416/02/2016, 13:48 - J Malawana: We are just working out what to do. I don't want to send out anything that can in any way look like we are shroud waiving or taking advantage. It's better to stay silent unless absolutely necessary. I am asking the Drs for Drs people to put together something. We have moved all their stuff up more prominently on the website, it was included in the member email yesterday.
182516/02/2016, 13:49 - A Collins: Would it perhaps be very best to keep very quiet from the JDC/Jrs perspective at least until it is a confirmed story? 
1826
1827I understand the implications of the police refusing to comment, but it is not a story.
182816/02/2016, 13:49 - A Collins: yes, noticed D4D on the email. Well placed
182916/02/2016, 14:17 - J Malawana: Agree Adam. I want to not fuel anything and not do anything that makes this in anyway worse. It's a car crash on its own. We have to support our members and offer any help they want. But apart from that however tempting it is, it's wrong to do anything with this other than just feel sorry for this family. I really hope the ordinary docs realise that. I am sure there is going to be so much anger out there.
183016/02/2016, 14:43 - L J Davis: Again, I'd point out the tea & empathy thread. Think we should support that...
183116/02/2016, 14:47 - A Sami: How times have changed, David Cameron
1832http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/15/junior-doctors-david-cameron-video-2007_n_9235210.html
183316/02/2016, 14:47 - K Mohan: Personally I really really dislike the  name "tea and empathy". I appreciate and support its intent though.
183416/02/2016, 14:50 - A Borbora: I'm uncertain a judicial review would stop anything 
1835It might be useful to open up another brief window for negs if it's accepted for hearing (which it may not be) but what use is that given that there is no movement on either side. It might be useful to allow them to revisit certain positions such as NROC, weekend payments or locum restrictions but I think we need to be realistic here.
183616/02/2016, 14:52 - A Sami: And the successive weekends clause that has disappeared as well
183716/02/2016, 14:54 - A Borbora: It's moved to 1:2 which is in our interests as it allows more flexibility for taking leave
183816/02/2016, 15:24 - A Sami: Cool. I knew we agreed ot with them. But I thought they have removed it from the imposed version. I need to check again.
183916/02/2016, 17:33 - D Rouse: Surely locum restriction could be won
184016/02/2016, 17:33 - D Rouse: As it makes them a monopoly on first refusal
184116/02/2016, 17:51 - C Sheridan: Very sad Rose hasn't been found yet. While that's the case maybe there is some hope she will turn up alive and well though I know that seems unlikely at the moment. That article really annoyed me; at the bottom they have the contract imposed on juniors "at a glance". Typical tory graph style in that it lists only positive things e.g. the improvements to basic pay and working consecutive days and weekly hours and none of the drawbacks. Anyone reading it would think we were nuts for refusing it
184216/02/2016, 17:55 - A Collins: I was just composing a follow up to what we said earlier but I've put it on the list server. Not an indication we can't talk about it here, but a heads up.
184316/02/2016, 17:55 - J Malawana: My super paranoia is fully on alert. if the Tories leaked it, and then spin it to suggest we are irresponsible, then if we call action and they then call for calm and force us off action by saying by going on action we are behaving irresponsibly? How will JDC and juniors react? Genuine question. There is a lot of politicking going on between NHS bodies, the gmc and other parties to try and stop juniors speaking out.
184416/02/2016, 17:55 - J Malawana: They will sacrifice hunt. He is dead anyway.
184516/02/2016, 17:56 - J Malawana: So question is timing. It was meant to be in June after Europe but say it's not.
184616/02/2016, 17:56 - A Collins: To what "it" do you refer?
184716/02/2016, 17:56 - J Malawana: The story about the note is in the telegraph and the mail. That means CCHQ has some line to play in this.
184816/02/2016, 17:57 - D Rouse: Unless the family told them
184916/02/2016, 17:57 - J Malawana: Everything I have seen recently that has appeared in both has been briefed directly from CCHQ or the spads.
185016/02/2016, 17:57 - D Rouse: U mean GCHQ
185116/02/2016, 17:57 - A Collins: If seems unlikely the family would choose those papers in this context, I have to agree
185216/02/2016, 17:57 - A Collier They're lining up to lay the blame at the BMA's door for scaring trainees.
185316/02/2016, 17:58 - J Malawana: I have even had it confirmed by my sources in the mail that they got the shit about be from the spads.
185416/02/2016, 17:58 - D Rouse: ABOUt what?
185516/02/2016, 17:58 - A Yassaee: The user profiles that regularly post pro-party comments are already blaming the BMA
185616/02/2016, 17:58 - D Rouse: Be?
185716/02/2016, 17:58 - J Malawana: No David. CCHQ.
185816/02/2016, 17:58 - J Malawana: Yep.
185916/02/2016, 17:58 - J Malawana: So we need to be ready.
186016/02/2016, 17:58 - J Malawana: This is going to turn very nasty.
186116/02/2016, 17:59 - A Collier We mustn't look defensive
186216/02/2016, 18:00 - A Collier Equally we must hide or refuse to comment.
186316/02/2016, 18:01 - A Yassaee: Mustnt hide or refuse comment ?
186416/02/2016, 18:01 - A Yassaee: (I presume?)
186516/02/2016, 18:01 - J Malawana: Arrash which accounts?
186616/02/2016, 18:01 - J Malawana: I get trolled by several but which ones have started the BMA lines?
186716/02/2016, 18:01 - A Collier Yes sorry that's what I meant.
186816/02/2016, 18:03 - A Collier Without wishing to sound  callous, do we (the BMA) know what the note said? Or what the journalists claim it said?
186916/02/2016, 18:03 - A Yassaee: I'm searching but saw earlier
187016/02/2016, 18:04 - A Yassaee: JL
187116/02/2016, 18:04 - J Malawana: Can you send them over. I will start having them monitored more closely.
187216/02/2016, 18:05 - A Yassaee: And Mick in Galway
187316/02/2016, 18:05 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
187416/02/2016, 18:06 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
187516/02/2016, 18:09 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
187616/02/2016, 18:10 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
187716/02/2016, 18:10 - A Yassaee: So that's after a skim
187816/02/2016, 18:10 - B Roberts: We shouldn't touch this. They can be psychopaths and get political mileage from this should they wish.
187916/02/2016, 18:11 - J Malawana: We can't afford to go anywhere near this. But we need to be ready for the storm as this going to turn really nasty.
188016/02/2016, 18:13 - A Collins: Xpost-listserver: I am sure that none of us want to "capitalise" in this in any way, pre or post facts coming out, and I hope that no one is even tempted. (and I don't believe that anyone is, I just think it needs to be said)
1881
1882What I wanted really to say is that perhaps any messaging on this, even links to d4d, would be best coming from someone who is not publicly part of this dispute in a big way. Perhaps Ian W, perhaps Andrew Mowat? I think it would be nice for us all to be as distant from this as possible, whilst of course being part of the support both locally and nationally that the BMA offers to Doctors.
1883
1884Perhaps I am being over sensitive on this, but although I have just heard a news report that the note was made up mostly of personal issues with JH getting just a mention, I doubt I am the only one of us feeling a degree of "could we have done anything differently" over this.
1885
1886I by no means think we are responsible, but if, as almost seems inevitable, her death is confirmed, I do believe that we will owe a considerable duty to her family and friends to ensure that we do not provide any ammunition any press or govt persons to bring this up beyond publicising the support available via the BMA.
1887
1888Again, I apologise if I seem that I am being overly sensitive on this issue, but I know several people who went to medical school with Dr Polge and who have remembered her fondly in the last few days at the slightest mention of pressure on juniors and I am keen that we not feed this association unnecessarily.
188916/02/2016, 18:19 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
189016/02/2016, 18:44 - L J Davis: Actually, still sadly relevant :(
189116/02/2016, 18:58 - B Roberts: Oh, yes, that surgical SpR from series one. I love that programme, used to watch it to psych me up for GCSEs. Won't tell you which format for fear of giving my grand old age away...
189216/02/2016, 18:58 - A Borbora: Betamax
189316/02/2016, 18:59 - C Castles: Haha
189416/02/2016, 19:01 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
189516/02/2016, 19:02 - C Castles: Aww, poor bethan
189616/02/2016, 19:03 - C Sheridan: Thin ice Aaron... I've seen bethan in her march outfit (read: riot gear) Id tread carefully! #thegrandduchyofwales
189716/02/2016, 19:05 - A Borbora: ??
189816/02/2016, 19:21 - B Roberts: Oi, Borbora, thin ice!
189916/02/2016, 19:25 - K Mohan: Yup. Bethy is one of the scariest people I know.
190016/02/2016, 19:26 - K Mohan: People seem strangely to think I'm frightening but I'm really placid compared to her.
190116/02/2016, 19:27 - B Roberts: Kitty, you're more overtly scary whereas I'm more of a silent assassin.
190216/02/2016, 19:42 - A Borbora: *looks over shoulder*
1903*gets ice-pick in eye*
190416/02/2016, 19:45 - C Castles: Realistically, you'd get an ice pick somewhere around chest height
190516/02/2016, 19:51 - K Mohan: Lol.
190616/02/2016, 20:04 - A Borbora: Watch out Conan or you'll be next for the pick!
190716/02/2016, 20:13 - C Castles: In my knee
190816/02/2016, 20:54 - B Roberts: Grrrr...
190916/02/2016, 20:55 - A Borbora: Don't you mean Yelp like an ankle-biting jack Russell? ??
191016/02/2016, 20:57 - C Sheridan: How many miles are you from Wales again Aaron?
191116/02/2016, 20:58 - A Borbora: Not enough!
191216/02/2016, 20:58 - A Borbora: I'm moving to NI. Get a clear body of water
191316/02/2016, 20:59 - B Roberts: Careful with the weapon choice or you might invite comparisons to Trotsky, although that was a pick axe in Mexico City rather than anything involving ice.
191416/02/2016, 21:00 - B Roberts: The JDC even kill each other in a communist fashion!
191516/02/2016, 21:00 - A Borbora: I'm a comrade from the Bma, according to unison. It's only fitting!
191616/02/2016, 21:00 - B Roberts: But we're all friends now ;)
191716/02/2016, 21:09 - C Castles: Haha, fb comrades now
191816/02/2016, 21:12 - A Borbora: Da, Comrade, da.
191917/02/2016, 07:50 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
192017/02/2016, 07:52 - K Mohan: Here's the link in case not seen: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rose-polge-missing-junior-doctor-7380321
192117/02/2016, 08:13 - Z Greaves: Oh dear
192217/02/2016, 08:34 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
192317/02/2016, 08:36 - J Malawana: Yep. This is going to not be good
192417/02/2016, 08:37 - H Carter: Johann do you have contacts within the DH?
192517/02/2016, 08:37 - J Malawana: ??
192617/02/2016, 08:38 - H Carter: I know there's already a thought that something has leaked from there side, but I wonder if they're concerned about how the BMA will 'use' this. Perhaps I'm being optimistic but mentioning to them that we absolutely won't may help.
192717/02/2016, 08:38 - H Carter: * their
192817/02/2016, 08:41 - H Carter: Then again, the papers have already found a ridiculously tenuous link (which warrants the front pages) so they will be watching this closely. I just think it's sad that her family are going to be subjected to this.
192917/02/2016, 09:02 - A Yassaee: I haven't read the metro but the mirror line, DH aren't going to want to go near it.
193017/02/2016, 09:06 - J Malawana: Good idea Harrison. I have done exactly this. I have a very rarely used way of communicating directly with the top and and following your suggestion I used it and it actually got an immediate response that was welcoming of the sentiment and conciliatory. Whatever our professional disagreements, I do feel for hunt. It must be horrible to be subject to this. 
1931
1932Anyway back to planning for next steps. Fighting with honour is a massively important thing to me. Whatever we think, I don't ever want to become that which we all despise when we look at politics.
193317/02/2016, 11:26 - A Borbora: I'm sure honour is important to all of us.
193417/02/2016, 11:45 - K Mohan: Of course it is. I think we (take we to be as narrow or as wide as you want it to be) need to remember we're all on the same side. Internal politics isn't really helpful at times like this.
193517/02/2016, 11:56 - A Borbora: Defo. But internal politics itself is a wide meaning term. It's what I was trying to say last week - we all want the same thing but often have different routes to get it
193617/02/2016, 11:56 - A Borbora: Diversity is strength and all that
193717/02/2016, 12:00 - K Mohan: I have to admit I don't entirely agree with that. At this time we're being watched carefully by many different groups most importantly our members. 
1938
1939We are diverse and must always remain so. More importantly we should always remain representative of those who elected us. 
1940
1941But we need to be careful as disunity is very easy to spot as are comments which "call for disunity" for the lack of a better phrase. It is divisive as it discourages people from saying what they really feel and it detracts from the job in hand. 
1942
1943I'm sure this is just a theoretical discussion in any case.
194417/02/2016, 12:03 - K Mohan: In other news, for the first time ever I've been given access to send an email to all our members from south thames! Today is an important day!
194517/02/2016, 12:04 - K Mohan: (Mostly as poor Sarah now doesn't have to send all the emails).
194617/02/2016, 12:04 - A Borbora: It's a very useful tool. Especially with some trusts being less than co-operative
194717/02/2016, 15:25 - T Crocker-Buque: Wow - HEE would withdraw training funds in FTs that would agree locally negd contracts.
194817/02/2016, 15:27 - Z Greaves: So they've shown what pressure they're capable of exerting - can we push them to refuse to support trusts using a one nation imposed contract ...
194917/02/2016, 15:30 - K Mohan: what do you mean, Zoe?
195017/02/2016, 15:31 - A Borbora: Get them onside with a negotiated contract
195117/02/2016, 15:31 - A Borbora: Not sure they're independent enough for it but it would meet their needs (and hours)
195217/02/2016, 15:32 - Z Greaves: Wishful thinking ... If they can refuse to support a locally agreed contract is there any way we can influence them to take the same approach to hunts contract - I doubt they are anywhere near independent enough ...
195317/02/2016, 15:33 - A Borbora: As I've said a few times I don't think locally negotiated contracts are in our interest either
195417/02/2016, 15:35 - Z Greaves: Until now though the line from HEE is that contracts are nothing to do with them they've stepped away from that and if we can we should exploit that
195517/02/2016, 15:41 - A Yassaee: Does HEE believe that the new contract would be better for training? And if not do they have grounds to withdraw places if not to do with training quality concerns?
195617/02/2016, 15:42 - A Borbora: No chance of that, I wouldn't have thought?
195717/02/2016, 15:42 - Z Greaves: My understanding is that they've refused to state a position but that they do have the power to withdraw places where there are concerns - are you at heeag this afternoon Arrash?
195817/02/2016, 15:43 - A Yassaee: No i couldnt get the leave. Lottie should be on TC/VC.
195917/02/2016, 15:44 - A Yassaee: Might it be worth probing them to explicitly state their concerns?
196017/02/2016, 15:46 - M Redman: I posted a brief email on listserv but Johann can we organise for you to do a webinar ... I know it's not as good as face to face but  the country and more people can attend And can still fire off questions etc
196117/02/2016, 15:51 - J Malawana: Just working through how to best do that melody.
196217/02/2016, 15:56 - M Redman: ????
196317/02/2016, 16:11 - T Crocker-Buque: Anyone know if Rob Websters resignation has any contracts angle? Seems a downward step.to.go to South West Yorkshire...
196417/02/2016, 16:16 - D Rouse: HEE believe nothing. They just do what DoH instruct non of these organisations think they just do
196517/02/2016, 16:23 - Z Greaves: I think that's a little unfair
196617/02/2016, 16:24 - D Rouse: Really you think that the sudden action to pull trainees from those organisations is their own open and fair decision making
196717/02/2016, 16:25 - D Rouse: It hard enough to convince them to pull trainees from
1968Bad unsupportive placements and without any prompt they decide to announce that statement
196917/02/2016, 16:25 - Z Greaves: No I don't but that doesn't mean that they don't have their own thoughts also
197017/02/2016, 16:26 - D Rouse: Sure they have their own thoughts Zoe. Not sure they can voice them
197117/02/2016, 16:26 - A Collins: Tbf it's possible they also think juniors are lazy self abusing oxygen theives and that they think it independently...
197217/02/2016, 16:28 - A Yassaee: But on a serious note - they've gone out on a limb here and publicly implied a training concern. Is there an avenue to question them on it?
197317/02/2016, 16:29 - D Rouse: E&t subcommittee be best to ask
197417/02/2016, 16:31 - M Redman: Arrash is E&T. Meta.
197517/02/2016, 16:31 - M Redman: When'a Ellen back
197617/02/2016, 16:33 - A Yassaee: By avenue I meant a line of questioning, not who specifically asks.
197717/02/2016, 16:34 - A Yassaee: Would a well worded FOI request do the trick for example?
197817/02/2016, 16:37 - A Borbora: For what? Proof that they think the dalton contract is bad for training?
197917/02/2016, 16:38 - A Collins: Proof they've done any kind of assessment?
198017/02/2016, 16:40 - A Yassaee: Essentially what assessment they have made on the training impact of the new contract.
198117/02/2016, 16:46 - Z Greaves: No someone informally cornering Wendy Reid after heeag would have been ideal - will see if I can pin someone down at shape meeting tomorrow instead
198217/02/2016, 16:50 - K Mohan: are you going to shape tomorrow, zoe?
198317/02/2016, 17:01 - Z Greaves: Yep
198417/02/2016, 17:02 - Z Greaves: Don't suppose anyone's around Bma house area for dinner tonight btw?
198517/02/2016, 17:52 - K Mohan: So who has set up the Twitter persona @malawana_watch!! I expect them to be properly stalking Johann. That'd be cool. They're a bit boring.
198618/02/2016, 09:46 - C Sheridan: I thought this was quite good for anyone who hasn't seen it: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/17/jeremy-hunt-survival-nhs-junior-doctor-imposition-morale
198718/02/2016, 09:55 - Z Greaves: That's epic
198818/02/2016, 10:52 - Z Greaves: Anyone know anything about bbc big questions? Are they nice? (Non contracts related they're interested in blog I wrote on old people a few yrs ago)
198918/02/2016, 10:53 - A Collins: I'm sure this keeps coming up and people say to be wary, but beyond that idk
199018/02/2016, 11:02 - M Redman: My dad's been on a couple of times before and they were nice but you have to be forceful to get your word in cos there's lots of very opinionated people :)
199118/02/2016, 11:04 - M Redman: It's a totes random programme as mix of ethical moral and political issues
199218/02/2016, 11:05 - Z Greaves: Sounds like my cup of tea lol
199318/02/2016, 11:13 - K Mohan: Does anyone have a phone no for mirembe?
199418/02/2016, 11:14 - Z Greaves: Not sure how current it is but try: 07825 656665
199518/02/2016, 11:15 - K Mohan: thanks zoe
199618/02/2016, 12:04 - K Mohan: does anyone have/or know anyone who has a paid up survey monkey account?
199718/02/2016, 12:04 - K Mohan: (that we could borrow)
199818/02/2016, 12:05 - K Mohan: briefly
199918/02/2016, 22:19 - M Redman: Ntrjdc get black room and strjdc get great hall?! Lol.
200018/02/2016, 23:41 - K Mohan: We got the black suite. 150 attendees. :)
200118/02/2016, 23:41 - K Mohan: And more on VC.
200218/02/2016, 23:42 - K Mohan: Prob about 120 actually. :)
200318/02/2016, 23:46 - A Collins: Nice!
200419/02/2016, 03:01 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
200519/02/2016, 03:01 - D Rouse: Amjad
200619/02/2016, 03:01 - D Rouse: Thanks
200719/02/2016, 03:01 - D Rouse: Just finished work
200819/02/2016, 03:02 - D Rouse: Just guna go measure myself for my coffin
200919/02/2016, 03:03 - A Collins: That's just cos you've got mad motorcycling folk who chase TT riders around on bikes laden with kit ;)
201019/02/2016, 03:04 - A Collins: Won't be long til you're 57 eh? ??
201119/02/2016, 03:04 - D Rouse: And the length of hours and stress and vast numbers of antisocial shifts which bounce from 10-1900 to 1700 -0300 in one week
201219/02/2016, 03:04 - A Sami: I just finished work where I felt I need to overstay
201319/02/2016, 03:05 - D Rouse: Oh yeah and I'm applying for itu too so double whammy
201419/02/2016, 03:06 - A Collins: #iminworkJDC
201519/02/2016, 03:06 - A Collins: But reading jdc briefing docs and considering defenestrating myself at RIE earliest opportunity.
201619/02/2016, 03:06 - A Collins: Its not hugely encouraging!
201719/02/2016, 03:06 - A Collins: Oh dear. At least you'll know all the right drugs to perk yourself up?
201819/02/2016, 07:10 - L J Davis: So that pension at 68 is going to be worth waiting for...
201919/02/2016, 07:14 - J Malawana: Amjad I didn't need that table to tell me you're doomed in a e
202019/02/2016, 07:15 - J Malawana: No idea why anyone would do a e. Everytime I see Ellen she is on some crazy shift pattern.
202119/02/2016, 07:24 - L J Davis: Erm maybe EM needs something else sorted...?
202219/02/2016, 07:36 - C Sheridan: This can't be true surely! We are all dying sooner than gen pop. I thought we were supposed to live longer as affluent and health conscious folk?! Loving that p value for obs and gyn... there's hope for you Johann!
202319/02/2016, 07:38 - L J Davis: The community figure is only because the gps all retire at 55.
202419/02/2016, 07:39 - L J Davis: No staying power.
2025At all ??
202619/02/2016, 08:05 - M Redman: Great turnout!!! (Delayed message)
202719/02/2016, 08:09 - M Redman: things are just already bad enough aren't they! 
2028In one of our trusts (a trendy one!) their Jr anaesthetic reg Rota has 5/7 posts unfilled for summer, paeds sho 3 down, paeds reg 7 down. Messed up
202919/02/2016, 08:13 - J Malawana: Hey all need you to check the legal FAQs I sent to the exec listserver and need any additional questions by midday so can ask our legal department to make additions as needed.
203019/02/2016, 08:14 - J Malawana: Can you copy in gwilliams@bma.org.uk to all your responses so he can see them so we don't miss any
203119/02/2016, 08:20 - D Tooth: Johann have early surgery and meeting a. Don't think I'll get chance to look before lunch. Did the issue that Aaron raised come up re GP regs not under an Leo?
203219/02/2016, 08:28 - A Borbora: Yes it's been flagged
203319/02/2016, 09:20 - Z Greaves: I wonder what the comparison with general pop would be if they adjusted for higher suicide rate and accidents from crazy biker type people ... ie is it physiological or psychological effects of the job
203419/02/2016, 09:27 - K Mohan: I'm not sure why you would adjust for higher suicide rates, Zoe?
203519/02/2016, 09:27 - K Mohan: Wouldn't you just explain in your discussion that this could be a factor.
203619/02/2016, 09:30 - Z Greaves: You could - just thinking as it was a cardiology journal you might be less interested in that - suicides happen at younger ages and so may have skewed the data - not saying they're unimportant by any means just that they could have influenced and I'd be curious to know if the difference still existed when you exclude them
203719/02/2016, 09:36 - K Mohan: Fair point. Is it all cause mortality or just cardiovascular-related death? (I'll google the paper I think!). :)
203819/02/2016, 10:05 - L J Davis: And this is why public health is such an exciting specialty.
2039
2040And our mortality rates don't feature because we all live to be 110.
204119/02/2016, 10:29 - Z Greaves: That's what I was hoping; rather than our having been forgotten again lol
204219/02/2016, 12:00 - M Redman: Q:
2043As we agreed 48h rest after 3-4 consecutive nights, what happens if you only do 1-2 nights?
204419/02/2016, 12:00 - A Collins: Nada :(
204519/02/2016, 12:02 - D Rouse: Haha if your EM you just collapse and die
204619/02/2016, 12:02 - D Rouse: Keeping the age of death as low as possible
204719/02/2016, 12:08 - M Redman: Lol david
204819/02/2016, 12:22 - M Redman: So just the ewtd (while it exists) 11h?
204919/02/2016, 12:26 - A Sami: Good morning everyone
2050
2051So, state pension age is 68. Many doctors living, on average, till 76, according to that paper; then we need to bring the average retirement age for A&E to 49 so that we enjoy pension for an average 8 years like other specialities expected to do!
2052
2053
2054In Jeremey Hunt's style:
2055
2056"When we have a paper after paper, telling us that A&E doctors die earlier, it is surely the right thing to do, to bring the retirement age lower. Isn't the duty of A&E exec member duty to act?!" 
2057
2058"The BMA is misleading the A&E doctors by blaming rotas and understaffing. One only needs to look at the 0.98 p value that Obs&Gynae enjoy, to know that we need to do this"
2059
2060I surprise myself, sometimes!
206119/02/2016, 12:28 - A Yassaee: But vocation?
206219/02/2016, 12:29 - D Rouse: Erm soooo
2063
2064I know I bang on about this but.
206519/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: I think that ACP is a big winner from this contract
206619/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: And there is another opportunity to challenge them
2067At the EMTa meeting coming up
206819/02/2016, 12:30 - D Rouse: And I wondered if E&T were planning to do this
206919/02/2016, 12:30 - A Collins: ACP?
207019/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: Please tell me that's a joke
207119/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: Yes acp
207219/02/2016, 12:31 - A Collins: whats acp?
207319/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: Do I need to dust off my soap box
207419/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: :-O
207519/02/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: Someone hold me back
207619/02/2016, 12:31 - A Collins: Just expans your acronyms, I've been awake since about 1700 yest
207719/02/2016, 12:32 - D Rouse: Advanced Clinical Practitioner
207819/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collier Yes ACP David...
207919/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collins: Oh right,
208019/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collier David was stalling for time to look it up.
208119/02/2016, 12:32 - D Rouse: Hahaha
208219/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collins: Of course, how silly of me, ACP not ENP or ANP or PANP or HANP or NNP or ANNP or IATS
208319/02/2016, 12:32 - D Rouse: It was in my manifesto(s)
208419/02/2016, 12:33 - D Rouse: Ope
208519/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collins: SOMEONE HAS A FUCKING DOG ON THIS TRAIN
208619/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collins: is that a thing?
208719/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collins: does one bring dogs on trains?
208819/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collins: I wasn't made aware, in writing, 6 weeks in advance. What if it needs a poo?
208919/02/2016, 12:33 - D Rouse: This is a masters trained practitioner that is set to work as a registrar in EM/AM/ICM/PAEDS
209019/02/2016, 12:34 - M Redman: I'm on my way Collins ..  shortly there'll be two dogs OUSH
209119/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: Melody you talk sense
209219/02/2016, 12:34 - A Yassaee: Unfortunately
209319/02/2016, 12:34 - D Rouse: Are e&t planning to bring this up
209419/02/2016, 12:34 - A Collins: lol, if I didn't know better I'd say Boyle had Melo's phone!
209519/02/2016, 12:35 - D Rouse: Never mind I'll bring it up tomorrow
209619/02/2016, 12:35 - D Rouse: Bet Andrew can't wait ;-)
209719/02/2016, 12:36 - D Rouse: Anticccccciiiiiii...........pation
209819/02/2016, 12:36 - A Collins: If you two are going to fight about NROC again can you do it over lunch? I reckon you've both got the drink throwing flare :P
209919/02/2016, 12:36 - M Redman: There's no E&T section on jdc cos it's an additional mtg. Tbh I've not looked at the EM papers yet
210019/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: Better get practicing my yorkshire accent ;-). It doesn't become shouty without practice. 
2101
2102
2103Ey up naa lad, what's tha on abart
210419/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: Any other business
210519/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: It fits well in with the contract
210619/02/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: For reasons I will point out
210719/02/2016, 12:38 - D Rouse: Sorry adam me and Andrew didn't argue re NROC
210819/02/2016, 12:38 - D Rouse: I think we were in agreement
210919/02/2016, 12:39 - B Roberts: David, were you channelling some Rocky Horror just then?!
211019/02/2016, 12:39 - D Rouse: I was
211119/02/2016, 12:39 - D Rouse: Did you enjoy
211219/02/2016, 12:39 - A Collins: Andrew told me he thinks you should get paid more for NROC than ROC because you might be on for 24 hrs *runs away*
211319/02/2016, 12:39 - A Yassaee: If I am to understand that on TC, can you please type subtitles David.
211419/02/2016, 12:39 - A Yassaee: Least you could do.
211519/02/2016, 12:40 - D Rouse: Melody can provide translation like the do at the UN
211619/02/2016, 12:40 - A Collins: Arrash do you get a London weighting for honoraria for having to interpret the accents?
211719/02/2016, 12:40 - D Rouse: She'll be there with those head phones on
211819/02/2016, 12:40 - B Roberts: I did ;)
211919/02/2016, 12:40 - M Redman: it would be my honour
212019/02/2016, 12:40 - B Roberts: I expect you will be wearing fishnets and a lab coat tomorrow?
212119/02/2016, 12:41 - D Rouse: When you do it tho melody I want you to translate in proper BBC RP otherwise Arrash may struggle
212219/02/2016, 12:41 - D Rouse: Collins just said that EM is just a triage service anyway
212319/02/2016, 12:41 - D Rouse: So please don't expect him at the meeting tomorrow
212419/02/2016, 12:42 - D Rouse: As he like many EM consultants will be dead before he reaches let's say 29
212519/02/2016, 12:42 - A Collins: Precisely, that's why there's so many nurses who can do it... :O
212619/02/2016, 12:42 - A Collins: Generous estimation of my age there...
212719/02/2016, 12:42 - M Redman: Sure arrash will lap it up. My posh accent is hard to argue with
212819/02/2016, 12:43 - D Rouse: I am just guna let Ellen and Lottie go to town on you. I am just guna sign the crem form for £80
212919/02/2016, 12:44 - A Collins: I heard if you do a few crem forms you can make up for your lost IA wages!
213019/02/2016, 12:45 - D Rouse: Amjad sorry
213119/02/2016, 12:45 - K Mohan: is no one at work? seriously.
213219/02/2016, 12:45 - D Rouse: You can have the part 2
213319/02/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: I am just about to start in 15 min
213419/02/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: Until 00:00
213519/02/2016, 12:46 - K Mohan: (i mean - i'm not at work but...)
213619/02/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: I forgot Amjad had seen the light and joined the brother and sisterhood of EM
213719/02/2016, 12:47 - K Mohan: if everyone's got lots of time. some person on FBGoD is having a BMA rant. personally i don't think they're a doctor. (can't find them on the register - yes i have turned into andrew collier.
213819/02/2016, 12:48 - D Rouse: Vote Katherine Henderson for RCEM president !
213919/02/2016, 12:48 - D Rouse: Urgh tell them to go fu&k themselves
214019/02/2016, 12:49 - D Rouse: Is that the official line ?
214119/02/2016, 12:49 - D Rouse: Haha. Sorry I had a killer of a night. StThomas' went on divert due to a 6 hour wait
214219/02/2016, 12:49 - A Collins: Yes, ever since we let a gynaecology trainee take over that has been the official line
214319/02/2016, 12:49 - D Rouse: Kitty a PH question for u
214419/02/2016, 12:49 - K Mohan: does anyone else feel like they're caught in david's stream of consciousness?
214519/02/2016, 12:50 - K Mohan: on here? really?
214619/02/2016, 12:50 - A Collins: I do, but its a comforitng feeling. 
2147Kitty who is having a rant?
214819/02/2016, 12:50 - D Rouse: Are we going to announce a H1N1 epidemic in Lambeth because everyone is swine flu positive and are really sick
214919/02/2016, 12:51 - A Sami: I nearly lost it last night with one junior surgical doctor who said "What is the point of A&E?!"
215019/02/2016, 12:51 - K Mohan: no. h1n1 is seasonal circulating flu now.
215119/02/2016, 12:51 - D Rouse: Load req Vasopressors
215219/02/2016, 12:51 - D Rouse: Really big sick
215319/02/2016, 12:52 - K Mohan: everyone is sick though agree. we had someone at kch who they thought had lassa fever or congo-crimeran haemorrhage fever (no joke) who actually had h1n1
215419/02/2016, 12:53 - K Mohan: everyone is in a flap about it though as lots of people very sick.
215519/02/2016, 12:53 - A Sami: A relative of mine died of H1N1 2 weeks ago (abroad)
215619/02/2016, 12:53 - A Sami: Nasty stuff
215719/02/2016, 12:53 - A Collins: Sorry to hear that Amjad. :(
215819/02/2016, 12:54 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
215919/02/2016, 12:54 - D Rouse: Sorry to hear it mate
216019/02/2016, 12:54 - D Rouse: It's pretty bad strain
216119/02/2016, 12:54 - A Sami: It's OK (thanks, Adam and David). It is doing the rounds but not much said about it
216219/02/2016, 12:55 - D Rouse: Erm and as for that junior
216319/02/2016, 12:55 - D Rouse: I would have rung him to see every abdominal pain
216419/02/2016, 12:57 - A Sami: Not to bitch about them, but you do not need bloods and x-ray to tell an abdomen is a surgical abdomen.
2165
2166In fact, I told them no x-ray is going to be done because we are going to CT.
216719/02/2016, 12:57 - A Collins: He sounds like a prick, said as the current surgical Junior. 
2168
2169I'm sure this will offend David's territoriality but when it's quiet I go to a&e and help
217019/02/2016, 12:58 - D Rouse: Or nausea
217119/02/2016, 12:58 - A Collins: all vomits. ?bilious
217219/02/2016, 12:58 - D Rouse: People forget we see almost every patient admitted to hospital plus another 75% who we treat and discharge home. 
2173
2174Also the reason those patients we admit are not at deaths door is because we have seen an instigated treatment. 
2175
2176Also patients who are critically ill are treated immediately. I rapid sequence tube commence pressors have filtered in ED before as well as stopping major haemorrhage and delivered babies. 
2177
2178The point of EM is we provide life saving treatment across the full range of specialities
217919/02/2016, 12:58 - A Sami: One of them shifts were you put a curtain dividers to split cubilce to take 2 patients instead of one
218019/02/2016, 13:01 - D Rouse: Drives me mad I may not know the full differential for vasculitis of the neonate but I know the emergencies and treatments which pertain to patients from paeds elderly care
218119/02/2016, 13:02 - A Collins: How do you feel about me helping out? ;)
218219/02/2016, 13:02 - A Sami: Having said that, I will probably apologise to them when I see them this evening for telling them the pont of A&E is 6 years of training and 6 hoops of post-graduate exams. And a ligitemate way of dying earlier!lol
218319/02/2016, 13:02 - A Sami: I felt bad because they probably trying to di their job
218419/02/2016, 13:03 - D Rouse: Don't feel bad
218519/02/2016, 13:03 - A Sami: And under pressure from seniors to get this and that done.
2186
2187I
218819/02/2016, 13:03 - D Rouse: If they need repeated irradiation of am abdomen to tell them what you can tell from placing a hand don't apologise
218919/02/2016, 13:04 - K Mohan: Just to say - not directed at anyone. I'd really like tomorrow not to be one speciality against another or one working pattern against another. We all work hard and need to make sure contract is fair for all working patterns and specialities. We may all have different definitions of "fair" coloured by our previous working patterns an experiences but we really shouldn't knock someone else's work in their particular geographic location/rota etc until we've tried it - and it's upsetting/angry-making to us all. Typical divide and rule by the Govt and we mustn't fall into the trap.
219019/02/2016, 13:04 - D Rouse: No I agree kitty
219119/02/2016, 13:04 - D Rouse: I'm just moaning about ppl asking the point of EM
219219/02/2016, 13:04 - A Collier I agree, so we can all agree to scrap the RRPs?
219319/02/2016, 13:05 - A Sami: I disagree, Kitty. I am going to die at 57 and I need to retire by the age of 49 ??
219419/02/2016, 13:05 - A Collier I'll give up our 1,500 if everyone else give up their merger amounts
219519/02/2016, 13:06 - A Collier *meagre
219619/02/2016, 13:06 - A Sami: You can take the £1500. It is more insulting having it than not having it
219719/02/2016, 13:06 - K Mohan: As I said, i'm not directing this at anyone. It's just not helpful. It makes me angry when people talk about NROC as if I'm on bloody holiday. :) I MEAN, I DO  PUBLIC HEALTH. NO ONE TOLD ME I'D HAVE TO WORK?!? :)))) Rant over.
219819/02/2016, 13:07 - J Malawana: I agree. Obs and Gynae are the hardest working and it's a fucking period.
219919/02/2016, 13:07 - J Malawana: So stop calling me
220019/02/2016, 13:07 - A Sami: Johann, you are a walking dead man niw!
220119/02/2016, 13:07 - A Collier I've just emailed employers to complain about their latest letter
220219/02/2016, 13:07 - J Malawana: Lol
220319/02/2016, 13:08 - A Yassaee: Guys i dont have any work anecdotes to share but just wanted to let you all know I've just had a cracking sweet chilli chicken.
220419/02/2016, 13:08 - A Sami: Kitty, if you feel low in one of your shifts, come to A&E and we will get a NORC doctor, like you,  to assess you and make you feel better ??
220519/02/2016, 13:09 - A Collier Dear Mr Mortimer,
2206
2207Many thanks for you recent letter. I'm rather concerned about your representation of the current contract and having read through your document I can see at least three factual errors in your representation of the existing new deal contract.
2208
2209You suggest that there is no "independent oversight" of current rota pattern and this simply is not the case. I include a quote from the NW Junior Doctor Advisory Team guidance which highlights this error:
2210
2211"In the North West and Mersey it is required that every new rota, and any rota which undergoes a change in banding, is signed by the JDAT on behalf of Health Education North West. This iterative process ensures that Trusts implement valid and workable rotas compliant with the contract and WTR, but also part of the LETB’s process of ensuring that training posts provide adequate educational content."
2212
2213You also suggest that there is no system for tackling real time issues, where as in reality monitoring can be requested by a trainee or department at any time if an issue arises.
2214
2215Finally, I must draw your attention to your suggestion that there is no "best practice in rostering" "for all employers". Having quickly completed an internet search on the topic I can find no less than five such resources. Unless the new "good practice" of which you speak is going to be contractually binding this is a rather disingenuous statement?
2216
2217I would hope that you could correct these errors with an erratum to the trainees to whom your letter has been disseminated.
2218
2219Best wishes,
222019/02/2016, 13:09 - K Mohan: Let's get Ben Dean to FOI something. it's been a while.
222119/02/2016, 13:09 - K Mohan: that'll cheer us all up
222219/02/2016, 13:09 - A Sami: The legend Ben Dean!?
222319/02/2016, 13:10 - K Mohan: actually Ben White told me yesterday that he was involved in some FOIs. I said somewhat glibly "huh, ben dean does the FOIs".
222419/02/2016, 13:10 - K Mohan: It turned out he was working with Ben Dean so all was ok...
222519/02/2016, 13:11 - L J Davis: It's a Ben thing?!?!
222619/02/2016, 13:12 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
222719/02/2016, 13:13 - A Sami: Our Yorkshire lass kidnapped!
222819/02/2016, 13:13 - A Sami: Good letter, Andrew.
222919/02/2016, 13:14 - K Mohan: oh dear "Melody is caffeinated".
223019/02/2016, 13:14 - K Mohan: wait a sec. i saw Melo in london yesterday.
223119/02/2016, 13:15 - A Collins: She went home to electrocute some poor psych Ltd
223219/02/2016, 13:15 - A Collins: *pts
223319/02/2016, 13:15 - J Malawana: Andrew send it but also reword slightly and send as an open letter to the independent. They are publishing something for me ahead of tomorrow's meeting so if you send it in I can ask them to take a look and see whether can coordinate.
223419/02/2016, 13:16 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
223519/02/2016, 13:16 - J Malawana: Copy me in if you submit it and I will make sure it's passed to the right person.
223619/02/2016, 13:16 - K Mohan: slightly crude description, adam.
223719/02/2016, 13:16 - K Mohan: ooh good idea - it's a good letter.
223819/02/2016, 13:16 - A Collins: Can I write a letter to Jeremy asking if he's going to recant misleading the house about consecutive weekends?
223919/02/2016, 13:16 - A Collins: Ps I like Andrews letter too.
224019/02/2016, 13:17 - A Collins: Also kitty when have you ever known me to be less than crude?
224119/02/2016, 13:17 - J Malawana: I would write something like that to the times letters page.
224219/02/2016, 13:17 - M Redman: I was kitty but despite having annual leave approved they rostered me for ECT this morning. So I came back to shock a few people, and now I'm going back to ldn
224319/02/2016, 13:17 - M Redman: I'm sexy and I know it ??
224419/02/2016, 13:17 - J Malawana: In fact I would all write letters on everything to the times and telegraph letters pages. Get your parents to do it as well.
224519/02/2016, 13:18 - J Malawana: If anyone is an actual card carrying Tory then you could try and do something as a Tory member of exec. Kinda like Hannah Mitchell did.
224619/02/2016, 13:19 - M Redman: Yes Collins do it!
224719/02/2016, 13:33 - A Collier So I've reworked the letter as a "letters pages" version, who do you want me to send it to?
224819/02/2016, 13:38 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
224919/02/2016, 13:54 - J Malawana: Look on Indy website and see how you submit letters. Email it to them and copy me in.
225019/02/2016, 13:54 - A Collier Will do
225119/02/2016, 15:29 - D Rouse: Lol
225219/02/2016, 15:49 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
225319/02/2016, 15:52 - L J Davis: Adam with some kind of food?
225419/02/2016, 16:02 - B Roberts: Adam holding a mini boat?
225519/02/2016, 16:06 - K Mohan: Oh those are amazing. They are the coconut pancakes right?
225619/02/2016, 16:11 - M Redman: Yes kitty
225719/02/2016, 16:11 - M Redman: ????mmmm
225819/02/2016, 16:11 - A Collins: Yeah they're amazing
225919/02/2016, 16:35 - L J Davis: They sound good. From where?
226019/02/2016, 16:35 - A Collins: These were from a little stall in Borough Market that I lvoe
226119/02/2016, 16:46 - J Malawana: Are you guys in London?
226219/02/2016, 16:47 - A Collins: Yeah, hilton bankside
226319/02/2016, 16:47 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
226419/02/2016, 16:47 - M Redman: Yes! Come hang out with us. Its so posh. my free slippers have extra padding.
226519/02/2016, 16:48 - A Collins: Redman is overwhelmed by the fact our room has towels or something
226619/02/2016, 16:48 - A Collins: Its unclear why she's so excited.
226719/02/2016, 16:49 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
226819/02/2016, 16:49 - A Yassaee: Gamechanger.
226919/02/2016, 16:49 - J Malawana: Hold on, have you two got one room?! Intriguing.
227019/02/2016, 16:49 - J Malawana: :-)
227119/02/2016, 16:50 - J Malawana: I am going off to Birmingham. Will be back later. Perhaps late drink?
227219/02/2016, 16:50 - D Rouse: Can I confirm post Jdc drinks tomorrow
227319/02/2016, 16:50 - K Mohan: Oooooh. I live near there. Where drinks?
227419/02/2016, 16:51 - A Collins: Twin room Malawana... Keep your shirt on ;)
227519/02/2016, 16:51 - J Malawana: Hold on. You actually sharing a room?! Melody you poor girl. Collins is definitely a farter. You can tell.
227619/02/2016, 16:52 - A Collins: Hilton bankside, room 515, and do you have dinner plans?
227719/02/2016, 16:52 - D Rouse: Omg. JDC baby!!
227819/02/2016, 16:52 - J Malawana: Lol
227919/02/2016, 16:52 - J Malawana: That's you diva Dave.
228019/02/2016, 16:52 - J Malawana: You are the JDC baby.
228119/02/2016, 16:52 - J Malawana: David David David David
228219/02/2016, 16:52 - D Rouse: Yes Johann X
228319/02/2016, 16:54 - H Carter: See you all soon. Keep me in the loop about drinks. Although I will be celebrating Valentine's day (belatedly) with a boyfriend that is so over-worked I haven't seen him in a long time.
228419/02/2016, 16:54 - D Rouse: Is he an A&e doctor?
228519/02/2016, 16:54 - D Rouse: :-P
228619/02/2016, 16:54 - H Carter: He's an F1 on ITU at the moment :)
228719/02/2016, 16:54 - J Malawana: Shit. I forgot to buy Sarah a card.
228819/02/2016, 16:54 - D Rouse: Unbranded then
228919/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: Should be home
229019/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: Every day at 5
229119/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: ;-)
229219/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: I TOLD U
229319/02/2016, 16:55 - J Malawana: She didn't say anything.
229419/02/2016, 16:55 - H Carter: Lol
229519/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: I TOLD U
229619/02/2016, 16:55 - J Malawana: Bugger
229719/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: JOHANN!!
229819/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: I specifically told you repeatedly
229919/02/2016, 16:55 - D Rouse: Buy a card. It's Valentine's Day
230019/02/2016, 16:56 - H Carter: Well we've got Bollinger. No cards. Just alcohol....
230119/02/2016, 16:56 - D Rouse: No Justin bieber calendar?
230219/02/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: I mocked Melody's photo and then realised.....
230319/02/2016, 16:57 - D Rouse: Your sharing a room with Collins too??
230419/02/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: They DO move
230519/02/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
230619/02/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: No
230719/02/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: But i am sharing
230819/02/2016, 16:57 - D Rouse: What's this sharing rubbish
230919/02/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: With a friend
231019/02/2016, 16:58 - D Rouse: As an only child it is a very foreign concept
231119/02/2016, 16:58 - A Collins: It was a choice between sharing with me or Andrew Wilson what with the new tight fisted late starts
231219/02/2016, 16:58 - A Collins: I think melo made the right choice.
231319/02/2016, 16:59 - D Rouse: I bet it's like dawn chorus with all the snoring and farting lol
231419/02/2016, 17:00 - D Rouse: OMG OMG OMG
231519/02/2016, 17:01 - D Rouse: HARPER LEE IS DEAD!!!!!
231619/02/2016, 17:01 - K Mohan: Melody you can stay with me if you want. (No offence Collins).
231719/02/2016, 17:01 - A Collier David...we all get BBC News updates too!
231819/02/2016, 17:01 - A Collins: (not offended, quite) reasonable
231919/02/2016, 17:01 - D Rouse: Lol just in case you missed it!!!
232019/02/2016, 17:01 - K Mohan: In other news, presuming o don't get run over on Oxford st I'm free for dinner etc.
232119/02/2016, 17:02 - K Mohan: Where exactly is the hilton backside?
232219/02/2016, 17:02 - K Mohan: Is it the one near tower bridge?
232319/02/2016, 17:03 - A Collier It's new...I've actually never stayed there!
232419/02/2016, 17:03 - A Collier ??
232519/02/2016, 17:03 - K Mohan: Crikey.
232619/02/2016, 17:05 - K Mohan: It's actually pretty close to where I live it would seem.
232719/02/2016, 17:07 - D Rouse: has Andrew stayed in every Hilton
232819/02/2016, 17:08 - D Rouse: I reckon Andrew is the kind of boy with many many Hilton honours points
232919/02/2016, 17:09 - A Borbora: 200 messages. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one with a job ?? 
2330Have I missed anything?
233119/02/2016, 17:10 - K Mohan: No. You haven't. I asked the same question at lunchtime re jobs. :)
233219/02/2016, 17:20 - A Borbora: Phew. I worry sometimes that I'm working too hard. Then I just refuse a few scans
233319/02/2016, 17:21 - A Borbora: Today we tried to convince a F1 we had "run out of x-rays" so couldn't do a ct. the consultant have it away by laughing first
233419/02/2016, 17:23 - A Collins: We don't have a plan for dinner we were thinking Chinese and considering going over to soho but if you have local recommendations that would work?
233519/02/2016, 17:24 - A Collins: Hilton London Bankside
23362-8 Great Suffolk St, London SE1 0UG, United Kingdom
2337https://maps.google.com/?cid=7803809942548157887
233819/02/2016, 17:34 - B Roberts: Aaron, that's mean! At least you didn't punch them in the face as happened to a poor PRHO (not me) requesting a CT at KCH many moons ago...
233919/02/2016, 17:34 - B Roberts: Allegedly...
234019/02/2016, 17:52 - L Boyle: I was having a chat w Collins' bae at lunch in the canteen "yeah he's probably working hard in a meeting now I'm sure..."
234119/02/2016, 17:53 - A Collier bae?
234219/02/2016, 17:53 - A Collier Is it a young person thing?
234319/02/2016, 17:54 - A Collins: Lol
234419/02/2016, 17:54 - A Collins: She knows what I'm doing you minx
234519/02/2016, 17:56 - J Malawana: I still feel sorry for melody. There can be only one toilet?! Buy a lot of candles Melody. A lot.
234619/02/2016, 17:57 - A Collier Or a gas mask!
234719/02/2016, 17:58 - A Collins: Johann, so rude. You mustn't assume others have your issues!
234819/02/2016, 17:58 - A Collins: Arrash what are you up to?
234919/02/2016, 17:59 - A Collins: And why are you in a hotel, don't you live in canary ward?
235019/02/2016, 17:59 - J Malawana: Don't go spicy tonight Collins. Poor melody.
235119/02/2016, 17:59 - J Malawana: It's just not worth it.
235219/02/2016, 18:00 - M Redman: The hotel smells so nice even farty Collins couldn't gas me. It's seriously the nicest hotel I've stayed in
235319/02/2016, 18:00 - A Collins: Smells so nice... For now...
235419/02/2016, 18:00 - A Yassaee: I'm im cambridge
235519/02/2016, 18:01 - A Collins: Oh.
235619/02/2016, 18:01 - A Yassaee: For my free degree
235719/02/2016, 18:01 - A Collins: Oh yes of course. And of course you would go to the graduation
235819/02/2016, 18:01 - A Yassaee: I worked hard for that degree
235919/02/2016, 18:01 - M Redman: Collins swims like a merman
236019/02/2016, 18:02 - J Malawana: Not sure I want to think about Collins in speedos
236119/02/2016, 18:02 - A Yassaee: Why are you ogling him?
236219/02/2016, 18:02 - J Malawana: My god melody. Staring at Collins swimming and then gassed out all night. You're definitely in for a treat tonight.
236319/02/2016, 18:03 - J Malawana: There is definitely a limit to the abuse one person should suffer
236419/02/2016, 18:10 - K Mohan: I love our plg woman:  "Is £1,500 really worth having for a pay incentive? Some charity raffle prizes are more than this!"
236519/02/2016, 18:10 - K Mohan: That's PLG not pig
236619/02/2016, 18:11 - J Malawana: So rude kitty
236719/02/2016, 18:12 - A Collins: "I wouldn't want you to be compared to a waiter. I know in Carluccios they work 12 hrs but a waiter made 2 mistakes yesterday and no one died"
236819/02/2016, 18:12 - A Collins: The longest para of that email is all about how we're not like waiters. I'm so glad she was able to explain.
236919/02/2016, 18:13 - J Malawana: We should actually use that in a press release.
237019/02/2016, 18:15 - K Mohan: Agree. Have you met her? Andrew and I met her the day before JDC elections in September. She's a retired physio I think or OT. Pretty feisty.
237119/02/2016, 18:16 - A Collins: I forwarded Baksi's recruitment email onto my mother in case she wanted a project in her retirement ??
237219/02/2016, 18:19 - B Roberts: Melody, is there a pool at your hotel for you to have marvelled at Collins' swimming skills?
237319/02/2016, 18:20 - M Redman: No he did it on dry ground!!!
237419/02/2016, 18:20 - M Redman: ??
237519/02/2016, 18:21 - A Collins: There is a pool lol
237619/02/2016, 18:29 - B Roberts: How big is it? Might have to move from the Pullman...
237719/02/2016, 18:30 - A Collins: Big enough to swim laps in. I'd 100% recommend the move so far.
237819/02/2016, 18:30 - A Collins: 20m I think
237919/02/2016, 18:31 - B Roberts: Ooh, decent for a hotel pool. I was about to ask which tube station is nearest but I suppose I should just look at the website...
238019/02/2016, 18:32 - A Collins: London Bridge. <10 min walk
238119/02/2016, 18:33 - A Collins: Southwark actually even closer
238219/02/2016, 18:37 - B Roberts: Thanks, city guide!
238319/02/2016, 18:39 - L J Davis: Erm I guess you're in London Bethan... & not catching the tomorrow? ??????
238419/02/2016, 18:40 - L J Davis: Or... Was it a future move? Now I've confused myself. ??
238519/02/2016, 18:43 - L J Davis: Talking of travel, does anyone fancy flying from bristol to arm? I'm a bit daunted a) by the flight with Rory and b) by suggestions of who could keep me company from the Sw. :)
238619/02/2016, 19:07 - K Mohan: Who lives in the SW?
238719/02/2016, 19:07 - K Mohan: As in who is part of the SW Regional Council or divisions etc - then we could suggest someone.
238819/02/2016, 19:09 - H Carter: I will travel with you Lucy. I've been the doting surragette travel companion from Paddington with you so I'm well trained :)
238919/02/2016, 19:09 - H Carter: To ARM that is
239019/02/2016, 19:10 - K Mohan: aw. harry is the best. :)
239119/02/2016, 19:14 - L J Davis: ??Harry!
239219/02/2016, 19:14 - L J Davis: Rory thinks you're lovely!!!
239319/02/2016, 19:23 - M Redman: Sorry ljd, as much as I'd like to run up a tab of Rory cuddles, Bristol is a bit fast from York!!!
239419/02/2016, 19:23 - M Redman: Far*
239519/02/2016, 19:23 - H Carter: Excuses, Redman.
239619/02/2016, 19:23 - H Carter: ??
239719/02/2016, 19:26 - M Redman: ??
239819/02/2016, 19:43 - A Collins: I just don't like babies on planes :p
239919/02/2016, 20:07 - A Collins: Bets:
2400How long will it take Tim to notice/comment that I'm using "with warmest wishes"
240119/02/2016, 20:35 - L Boyle: Lmao!!
240219/02/2016, 20:39 - A Collier For a while I responded to only his emails with that sign off. If he did notice or he didn't let on.
240319/02/2016, 21:34 - B Roberts: LJD - future planning! I'm travelling through Temple-Meads tomorrow where I have to change to the 8:30am from T-M to Paddington.
240419/02/2016, 21:38 - B Roberts: Ha ha, Adam, just read your e-mail! I think the sign-off needs to be in a different font size to the body of the e-mail to be truly effective...
240519/02/2016, 21:39 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
240619/02/2016, 21:42 - L J Davis: Bethan! Hurray! ?????? see you there ??????
240719/02/2016, 21:42 - B Roberts: First class!
240819/02/2016, 21:43 - K Mohan: Basically melody is drunk.
240919/02/2016, 21:43 - A Collins: Situation : melody can't handle her drink...
241019/02/2016, 21:44 - M Redman: ??
241119/02/2016, 21:50 - H Carter: Where are you all?
241219/02/2016, 21:50 - H Carter: (Kitty, Collins and Melody)
241319/02/2016, 21:52 - A Yassaee: Melody never handles her drink
241419/02/2016, 21:52 - A Collins: We're in ping pong on Southbank
241519/02/2016, 21:53 - M Redman: Arrash??
241619/02/2016, 21:54 - A Yassaee: Soz m-dawg
241719/02/2016, 21:56 - M Redman: I thought you were all my friends??
241819/02/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: I'm your friend. But that's too far.
241919/02/2016, 22:37 - M Redman: Johann hates Melody
242019/02/2016, 22:37 - M Redman: (Quote kitty)
242119/02/2016, 22:38 - M Redman: ??
242219/02/2016, 22:39 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
242319/02/2016, 22:39 - M Redman: Jeeves says you can no longer #askjeeves
242419/02/2016, 22:40 - M Redman: He also says he looks like he works in a restaurant
242519/02/2016, 22:52 - A Collins: Racist. ..
242619/02/2016, 23:03 - L J Davis: Does that mean melody will be hungover and sleep deprived from sharing a room with Adam? Excellent! :)
2427
2428Night all. Have fun. Tell me about it tomorrow...
242919/02/2016, 23:05 - M Redman: I'm good now I've been fed (finally) :)
243019/02/2016, 23:05 - M Redman: And on the h2o
243119/02/2016, 23:27 - A Yassaee: Get the rehydration on point
243219/02/2016, 23:27 - A Yassaee: Secret to never having a hangover
243319/02/2016, 23:29 - J Malawana: Have you not finished playing yet?
243419/02/2016, 23:29 - J Malawana: You have school tomorrow
243519/02/2016, 23:29 - A Yassaee: I have not finished playing
243620/02/2016, 07:28 - D Tooth: Sorry was on ooh. 
2437I'm calling in today, sorry I can't be there in person
243820/02/2016, 08:25 - B Roberts: You slacker, Donna!
243920/02/2016, 08:37 - J Malawana: Melody, did you get any sleep?
244020/02/2016, 08:41 - Z Greaves: Lol ditto Donna - 2 days a week in Bma house is enough for me, plus I have to pop out at 2pm for a bit to do wedding stuff
244120/02/2016, 08:50 - M Redman: Actually I didn't sleep well but not cos of Collins - he is a babe. I think their beds are almost too comfortable.
244220/02/2016, 08:50 - K Mohan: Basically Collins snored I reckon.
244320/02/2016, 08:51 - K Mohan: I offered Melo my spare room which she declined. Something about not wanting to go into the hood... :))
244420/02/2016, 08:55 - A Collins: Lol
244520/02/2016, 08:55 - A Collins: I'm almost certain that I snored like a moderately sized traction steam engine, but that Melody is too polite to say so.
244620/02/2016, 09:06 - J Malawana: I have heard that before melody. The bed that's "too comfortable" was what kept you awake and not the moderate sized steam engine :-)
244720/02/2016, 09:06 - J Malawana: Luckily for Sarah I don't snore
244820/02/2016, 09:07 - J Malawana: So she doesn't suffer what you went through.
244920/02/2016, 09:07 - A Collins: Ah but then Melody and I had twin beds so she doesn't have to suffer what Sarah does...
245020/02/2016, 09:07 - K Mohan: I think we should cross-check that with Sarah. Yoyo definitely looks like a another.
245120/02/2016, 09:08 - K Mohan: *snorer
245220/02/2016, 09:08 - J Malawana: Nope.
245320/02/2016, 09:09 - J Malawana: Just little whisps of pure harmony every now and then
245420/02/2016, 09:13 - A Yassaee: It's not always the guy who snores!
245520/02/2016, 11:04 - A Yassaee: Sorry guys, I cant find TC number?
245620/02/2016, 11:09 - A Yassaee: Nvm found it
245720/02/2016, 11:09 - D Tooth: It's not working though
245820/02/2016, 11:10 - A Sami: Can I have it Aarash please? VC as well please
245920/02/2016, 11:10 - D Tooth: Arrash are you in
246020/02/2016, 11:11 - D Tooth: Am in now
246120/02/2016, 11:11 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
246220/02/2016, 11:11 - A Sami: Thank you
246320/02/2016, 11:14 - A Yassaee: No it keeps asking if i want the operator
246420/02/2016, 11:14 - D Tooth: That happened to me before
246520/02/2016, 11:14 - D Tooth: Try again
246620/02/2016, 11:15 - D Tooth: It's probably Arrash
246720/02/2016, 11:15 - A Sami: Same is here. Operator
246820/02/2016, 11:16 - A Yassaee: Nah still operator
246920/02/2016, 11:16 - D Tooth: Can someone in the room flag it up
247020/02/2016, 11:18 - A Sami: VC is not working either. It says meeting does not exisit
247120/02/2016, 11:18 - A Sami: Exist*
247220/02/2016, 11:19 - A Collins: We've flagged it, mirembe looks like sh'es doing stuff about it
247320/02/2016, 11:19 - L J Davis: Just had a suggestion I the room that we stop anyone vc/tc into meetings.
2474
2475You may have a view on this. I do
247620/02/2016, 11:19 - D Tooth: What
247720/02/2016, 11:20 - A Sami: ??
247820/02/2016, 11:20 - D Tooth: They want to stop people today Tc VC ing in
247920/02/2016, 11:20 - D Tooth: I am in
248020/02/2016, 11:20 - D Tooth: Or future meeting
248120/02/2016, 11:20 - L J Davis: Yep. A member. Johann has suggested moving that discussion onto the listserver.
248220/02/2016, 11:21 - D Tooth: Why
248320/02/2016, 11:21 - A Collins: Darshan has suggested that if we can't have a functional TC/VC system then we should not use it. 
2484he's been asked to put something on the listserver and perhaps if people want to tc/vc (which there are many good reasons to do) people may wish to express teh view that improving the system is the answer, not abandoning the 21st century.
248520/02/2016, 11:21 - A Collins: Perhaps ;)
248620/02/2016, 11:22 - A Sami: I finished after midnight last night and arrived home 02:30 and to bed at 04:00 to VC to Yorkshire from 09:30 before JDC.
2487
2488There is no chance to have come to London. VC is a life line sometines!
248920/02/2016, 11:23 - L J Davis: I feel quite strongly. But I'll save it for the listserver... :)
249020/02/2016, 11:23 - A Sami: Ah. I see. I gues he is making the statement as a protest to VC not working, may be?
249120/02/2016, 11:24 - A Collins: He is stating from within the room that the people on the VC can't possibly be finding it useful.
249220/02/2016, 11:24 - A Sami: And he wants it fixed rather than stopping it from use?
249320/02/2016, 11:24 - L J Davis: Erm- no he suggested stopping it being used
249420/02/2016, 11:25 - A Collins: because of the above, but yes, he definitely suggested stopping it
249520/02/2016, 11:25 - A Sami: Hmmm. Not sure about that.
249620/02/2016, 11:25 - A Collins: anyway. Listserver...
249720/02/2016, 11:25 - D Tooth: Are you guys know? Mirembe just posted details
249820/02/2016, 11:25 - M Redman: Zoe I hate to be cheeky but please could you turn your cam off when you're doing stuff bc hard to focus when your body is moving around being Johanns head
249920/02/2016, 11:26 - A Sami: VC is a lifeline sometimes. Listserver, here we come.
250020/02/2016, 11:26 - A Borbora: No he didn't. He suggested that we need functional kit not stuff that gives people the illusion of being to participate when really they can't because the kit doesn't work.
250120/02/2016, 11:27 - A Sami: Cheers, Aaron.
250220/02/2016, 11:28 - A Sami: I am on. Thank you, Donna.
250320/02/2016, 11:30 - L J Davis: The kit does work. Not well. 
2504But he was very clear in his comments
250520/02/2016, 11:30 - L J Davis: I am hungry. And need caffeine
250620/02/2016, 11:31 - A Yassaee: Im on
250720/02/2016, 11:32 - Z Greaves: Can we remind new people joining that the meeting is in camera
250820/02/2016, 11:32 - L J Davis: Doing that :)
250920/02/2016, 11:33 - Z Greaves: Will a copy of the legal doc be sent to those of us on VC?
251020/02/2016, 11:34 - A Sami: I second Zoe's
251120/02/2016, 11:34 - D Tooth: Did Johann want me?
251220/02/2016, 11:34 - D Tooth: Struggling to hear a little
251320/02/2016, 11:34 - A Collins: I think it's been sent out already zoe, unless it is a different legally priviledge opinion than the one we already have
251420/02/2016, 11:34 - A Collins: I'll let you know when it comes out
251520/02/2016, 11:34 - A Sami: Just saying hello, Donna
251620/02/2016, 11:35 - D Rouse: Just wanted make sure your awake X
251720/02/2016, 11:35 - A Collier It's different
251820/02/2016, 11:35 - A Sami: Thanks, Adam
251920/02/2016, 11:35 - A Collins: Oooooooooooooooooooh intrigue.
252020/02/2016, 11:35 - D Tooth: Ok thanks! Yes awake
252120/02/2016, 11:40 - A Collins: Its new, and it relates to the possible JR
252220/02/2016, 11:43 - A Sami: There was someone called Jeremy Hunt on VC and just left the meeting!
2523
2524In Camera and all that!??
252520/02/2016, 11:46 - Z Greaves: Did Johann just snub the northern region #heartbroken
252620/02/2016, 11:46 - Z Greaves: #nofann
252720/02/2016, 11:56 - A Collins: If johann says Neoliberal just once I'm going to no-con him...
252820/02/2016, 11:56 - H Carter: Adam that is my least favourite word.
252920/02/2016, 11:57 - H Carter: I HATE it.
253020/02/2016, 11:57 - A Collins: See, I'll have the backing of the room.
253120/02/2016, 11:58 - Z Greaves: Seconded
253220/02/2016, 12:00 - M Redman: Sometimes I want to mime licking my finger, touching Andrew's shoulder and make a sizzling noise. But I appreciate that's creepy so I refrain.
253320/02/2016, 12:01 - A Yassaee: Late to the party, but horrid word
253420/02/2016, 12:02 - A Sami: ??Meldoy been fraped!
253520/02/2016, 12:02 - A Collins: More likely still a little tipsy
253620/02/2016, 12:02 - A Sami: And that, Adam
253720/02/2016, 12:05 - M Redman: ??I was fine after I ate. 
2538
2539Also amjad why does your autocorrect always call me meldoy??
254020/02/2016, 12:07 - A Collins: omg melo that's his accent!! you can't just ask someone why they have an accent... :P
254120/02/2016, 12:08 - A Sami: My left thumb is faster than my right. Hence the spelling mistakes.
2542
2543Autocorrect is switched off ??
254420/02/2016, 12:08 - A Sami: Lol @Adam. You know me too well!
254520/02/2016, 12:08 - A Collins: Did your fellowship year include thumb speed testing? Does that impact leadership?
254620/02/2016, 12:09 - A Collins: (I only ask cos every time you speak I find out some cool new thing you did that year and I like the sound of it)
254720/02/2016, 12:10 - M Redman: It happens on our Yorkshire group all the time ?
254820/02/2016, 12:10 - A Sami: It was the best year ever of my training, Adam. Do it if you can
254920/02/2016, 12:12 - C Sheridan: Just dialled in btw in case any wonders who it is!
255020/02/2016, 12:12 - Z Greaves: As I'm not allowed to put my hand up and speak, I'd like to ask further to David's point will those of us in transition be able to choose to move to the new contract??
255120/02/2016, 12:14 - A Collins: Thought: re david's thing about pay protection would the senior trainees end up doing all the OOH until 2019 as they will be paid 1A for >30% OOH, and never go above that, whereas a new starting ST3 would be paid pro rata for OOH time...?
255220/02/2016, 12:15 - D Rouse: Got message Zoe
255320/02/2016, 12:16 - Z Greaves: Thanks
255420/02/2016, 12:31 - A Collins: It's fecking hot in this room, is that something we can do anything about?
255520/02/2016, 12:32 - K Mohan: i'm a little bit cold
255620/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collins: Is the air con at the back? I may have to sit there in the future
255720/02/2016, 12:33 - D Rouse: Don't worry Collins lunch 1pm
255820/02/2016, 12:33 - K Mohan: i'm not quite freezing but fairly cold.
255920/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collins: Will there be coconut pancakes?
256020/02/2016, 12:33 - A Collins: Cold hands cold heart...
256120/02/2016, 12:33 - D Rouse: Lol. Gruel
256220/02/2016, 12:33 - K Mohan: yup.
256320/02/2016, 12:34 - M Redman: I'm oscillating. Cardi on. Cardi off.
256420/02/2016, 12:34 - K Mohan: that's the booze melo.
256520/02/2016, 12:34 - A Collins: DDx early menopause?
256620/02/2016, 12:34 - A Collins: lol
256720/02/2016, 12:35 - A Collins: omg: Melopause?
256820/02/2016, 12:35 - M Redman: I gave kitty evils but I'm regretting it in case she throws things at me
256920/02/2016, 12:36 - Z Greaves: Who's speaking? U just have a pic of Collins and the guy behind him sucking his thumb
257020/02/2016, 12:36 - K Mohan: masc man
257120/02/2016, 12:36 - A Collins: The chap to my right from MASC
257220/02/2016, 12:36 - A Collins: He's the hero JDC needs
257320/02/2016, 12:36 - Z Greaves: Ahh yes there are hand gestures coming in from left of screen now
257420/02/2016, 12:36 - A Collins: Zoe's comment is unclear... Would it help if I sucked my thumb?
257520/02/2016, 12:37 - Z Greaves: Enormously lol
257620/02/2016, 12:37 - Z Greaves: No the guy behind you was sucking his one thumb a minute ago
257720/02/2016, 12:40 - Z Greaves: You've all just disappeared?!??!
257820/02/2016, 12:40 - A Yassaee: Am i the only one for whom TC is silent?
257920/02/2016, 12:40 - Z Greaves: I'm in a VC with make weir
258020/02/2016, 12:40 - A Yassaee: Ah back now
258120/02/2016, 12:40 - Z Greaves: Your back sorry
258220/02/2016, 12:44 - A Collins: I could send you the article that my friend wrote on the subject if you like dearest Dr Collier...
258320/02/2016, 12:45 - A Collins: oh shit, in job pay protection. Good call
258420/02/2016, 12:54 - A Sami: VC not working for me. Tcing now
258520/02/2016, 12:55 - A Sami: I am voting No please
258620/02/2016, 13:01 - A Collins: Lucy Jane, could you please share either the document or the wording of the heads of terms document
258720/02/2016, 13:03 - K Mohan: http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Documents/SiteCollectionDocuments/HoT%20final%20draft%20with%20explanatory%20notes.pdf
258820/02/2016, 13:05 - A Collins: Ta
258920/02/2016, 13:06 - A Yassaee: If, as people say, we are crossing into that territory, we will need to go up a league in terms of countering the narrative from the employers and wider government
259020/02/2016, 13:08 - Z Greaves: Indeed it will be tough
259120/02/2016, 13:09 - Z Greaves: For the record Johann I think the VC works fine the issue arises when tc can't or don't mute themselves - quite frustrating to have David as our mouthpiece
259220/02/2016, 13:09 - Z Greaves: Sorry David - not your fault and nothing personal x
259320/02/2016, 13:26 - C Castles: Hi everyone. Sorry for the unexplained absence from the meeting. I've had temps hitting 40.0 and this morning have had a severe headache and photophobia. Steph is insisting on taking me to ED shortly
259420/02/2016, 13:35 - D Tooth: Conan hope all is ok. Get better soon xxx
259520/02/2016, 13:44 - K Mohan: Oh goodness. Get better soon. X
259620/02/2016, 13:46 - Z Greaves: Gosh, hope nothing serious - feel better soon xx
259720/02/2016, 13:50 - C Castles: Thanks. I think it's a flu, but steph is working tonight and is worried about leaving me alone (boys already shipped off to grandparents)
259820/02/2016, 13:52 - D Tooth: Are we back in? Nothing on Tc
259920/02/2016, 13:55 - A Yassaee: I've got rehearsal now so probably not gonna TC until post ceremony
260020/02/2016, 14:02 - M Redman: Hope you get better soon
260120/02/2016, 14:02 - D Tooth: Are we back in as Tc is silent
260220/02/2016, 14:02 - Z Greaves: I like lament
260320/02/2016, 14:08 - L J Davis: Yes, we're back.
260420/02/2016, 14:10 - D Tooth: Yes thanks I'm in
260520/02/2016, 14:12 - Z Greaves: I'm going to have to go shortly - if there's a crucial vote with a narrow majority can someone give me a text and I'll try and rejoin briefly by tc
260620/02/2016, 14:12 - A Yassaee: Yeah ditto
260720/02/2016, 14:14 - A Collins: Will do zoe
260820/02/2016, 14:15 - Z Greaves: Thanks Adam
260920/02/2016, 15:09 - D Tooth: Can we vote via Tc
261020/02/2016, 15:10 - A Collins: yeah
261120/02/2016, 15:10 - A Collins: somewaysomehow
261220/02/2016, 15:14 - M Redman: #davidArousestheroom
261320/02/2016, 15:14 - K Mohan: #awks
261420/02/2016, 15:19 - M Redman: It can't stick. too long and could be taken out of context ??  We'll try to think of another sir rousey dw
261520/02/2016, 15:20 - A Sami: Connan
2616
2617I hope it will turn out a simple flu, not meningitis, or worse, man flu.
261820/02/2016, 15:25 - A Collier The Eagle has landed...on Kapils chest
261920/02/2016, 15:26 - Z Greaves: Commentary? Where's the debate now?
262020/02/2016, 15:29 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
262120/02/2016, 15:29 - A Borbora: ASLEF vs BR 1982
262220/02/2016, 15:29 - A Collins: I think arguably we'd look dafter together, and i'd be happy to join you for that?
262320/02/2016, 15:29 - A Borbora: Unity
262420/02/2016, 15:30 - A Collins: egalite, fraternite, equalite
262520/02/2016, 15:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ahh adam!
262620/02/2016, 15:31 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
262720/02/2016, 15:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Its liberte egalite fraternite
262820/02/2016, 15:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: :-)
262920/02/2016, 15:31 - Z Greaves: We're not getting all revolutionary again are we? :P
263020/02/2016, 15:32 - Y Gourtsouyannis: No its french lessons! Adam!
263120/02/2016, 15:32 - B Roberts: With the acute "é", let's not forget!
263220/02/2016, 15:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Of course. Didnt want to b TOO pedantic
263320/02/2016, 15:33 - K Mohan: david, you're pulling sulky faces!
263420/02/2016, 15:33 - D Rouse: Yes
263520/02/2016, 15:33 - D Rouse: Because
263620/02/2016, 15:33 - D Rouse: It isn't such a bad idea in a world of a blank slate
263720/02/2016, 15:33 - D Rouse: Haha anyway
263820/02/2016, 15:33 - D Rouse: Kitty I agree with you
263920/02/2016, 15:33 - D Rouse: Currently
264020/02/2016, 15:34 - A Collins: haha
264120/02/2016, 15:34 - A Collins: what isnt' such a good idea?
264220/02/2016, 15:34 - Z Greaves: That was not six different messages David?!
264320/02/2016, 15:35 - D Rouse: The status quo or status quo plus allowing four nations to fight together. 
2644Is the best shot at allowing the dust settle
264520/02/2016, 15:35 - K Mohan: LOL. what zoe said.
264620/02/2016, 15:35 - D Rouse: so we fight this when the political spectrum is different
264720/02/2016, 15:35 - D Rouse: But
264820/02/2016, 15:35 - K Mohan: DAVID, ONE MESSAGE. *DO NOT PRESS SEND*
264920/02/2016, 15:36 - A Collins: Do we
265020/02/2016, 15:36 - A Collins: need
265120/02/2016, 15:36 - A Collins: to
265220/02/2016, 15:36 - D Rouse: A speciality contract with colleges utilised based upon a core of national t&c which BMA is the neg for wouldn't be such a bad idea
265320/02/2016, 15:36 - A Collins: vote on
265420/02/2016, 15:36 - A Collins: whether or not
265520/02/2016, 15:36 - A Collins: we have a vote?
265620/02/2016, 15:38 - K Mohan: stop it Collins. we need to train David not be mean. let's try positive reinforcement.
265720/02/2016, 15:38 - D Rouse: Omg
265820/02/2016, 15:38 - D Rouse: Kittys not going to be mean
265920/02/2016, 15:38 - K Mohan: Well done David that was 26 words in a single message. :)
266020/02/2016, 15:40 - H Carter: Arrash and Zoe, there's going to be a vote.
266120/02/2016, 15:40 - H Carter: This is the division bell *ring ring*
266220/02/2016, 15:41 - H Carter: Come in now if you want to vote. Johann is presenting the options.
266320/02/2016, 15:46 - Z Greaves: As my vote received - I messaged David
266420/02/2016, 15:46 - K Mohan: i feel rejected. :(
266520/02/2016, 15:46 - K Mohan: not really.
266620/02/2016, 15:46 - D Tooth: Who do we email
266720/02/2016, 15:46 - K Mohan: i'll rouse-bait to make myself feel better.
266820/02/2016, 15:58 - L J Davis: 1975 excellent year. A vote on Europe, Successful Drs IA, and I was born...
266920/02/2016, 16:01 - C Sheridan: Kicked out of TC and engaged tone on calling back. Is anyone else similar?
267020/02/2016, 16:02 - A Sami: I am on VC
267120/02/2016, 16:02 - C Sheridan: Oh fixed now! False alarm!
267220/02/2016, 16:08 - D Tooth: Yes back in again
267320/02/2016, 16:10 - B Roberts: David, is it your mic that's causing the crackling?
267420/02/2016, 16:10 - D Tooth: Bethan are you on Tc too
267520/02/2016, 16:11 - D Tooth: I am getting crackling and not sure if it me
267620/02/2016, 16:11 - B Roberts: Nope, I'm in the room. It's very distracting!
267720/02/2016, 16:11 - D Tooth: I'm on mute so hopefully not me
267820/02/2016, 16:12 - L J Davis: Has it stopped now?
267920/02/2016, 16:12 - D Tooth: Yes
268020/02/2016, 16:12 - L J Davis: I want chocolate now.
268120/02/2016, 16:13 - D Tooth: So it's Johanns fault!!
268220/02/2016, 16:13 - L J Davis: Hmmm. Maybe the problem is Johann
268320/02/2016, 16:13 - L J Davis: [great minds]
268420/02/2016, 16:14 - L J Davis: Remedy. I remember them
268520/02/2016, 16:14 - M Redman: Btw I've seeen lolly sarah at lunch and just again now...
268620/02/2016, 16:15 - L J Davis: Now? Where?
268720/02/2016, 16:16 - D Tooth: Whose lolly Sarah
268820/02/2016, 16:16 - A Borbora: She does the t-shirts
268920/02/2016, 16:18 - A Yassaee: Sorry was busy kneeling for my free degree
269020/02/2016, 16:18 - A Yassaee: My knees are sore
269120/02/2016, 16:18 - M Redman: Not in the room
269220/02/2016, 16:18 - M Redman: But in bma house
269320/02/2016, 16:19 - H Carter: Interesting attack here.
269420/02/2016, 16:22 - A Collins: What did I miss?
269520/02/2016, 16:23 - M Redman: What's being referred to here?
269620/02/2016, 16:24 - A Sami: The BMA contacted people who organised rallies in Sept and Oct. inder the radar to explore the possibiloty of doing the same again
269720/02/2016, 16:24 - A Sami: This was done without informing anyone for the sensitivity it attracts
269820/02/2016, 16:25 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Whats so interesting harrison? And why is this an attack?
269920/02/2016, 16:25 - A Yassaee: Anything i need to dial in for?
270020/02/2016, 16:25 - A Borbora: Given the nature of discussions perhaps don't have this debate on here?
270120/02/2016, 16:25 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Also r.e MY point. In the interests of clarity Melody will happily put onto listserver.
270220/02/2016, 16:25 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Thanks aaron.  agreed.
270320/02/2016, 16:25 - Z Greaves: What's happened, what did I miss?
270420/02/2016, 16:26 - Z Greaves: When is the next JDC meeting?
270520/02/2016, 16:27 - A Sami: Then closer to IA dates, these grass root members and non-members have contacted regional chairs to find out the plan forward as things went quiet.
2706
2707Most of us were surprised by these people knowing about IA plans to have rallies when the regional chairs did not know about. 
2708
2709That is my understanding.
2710
2711Back to listserver ????
271220/02/2016, 16:28 - A Borbora: Yes please back to listserver
271320/02/2016, 16:36 - Z Greaves: Did we agree that we wanted to get govt back to the negotiating table?
271420/02/2016, 16:37 - A Sami: We voted that the end point is to inprove Dalton's contract.
2715
2716I cannot recollect any decision on re-ebtering negotiation
271720/02/2016, 16:37 - Z Greaves: Cool same difference j think
271820/02/2016, 16:38 - A Sami: Yeah. To improve tte Dalton's , we can either write our own improved version or improve it through negotiation
271920/02/2016, 16:39 - Z Greaves: I want to try and speak on VC if I can
272020/02/2016, 16:39 - L J Davis: Good point Zoe. 
2721I'm not sure that's completely true, but I'm not sure what the answer is...
272220/02/2016, 16:40 - A Sami: Oh dear!
272320/02/2016, 16:41 - C Sheridan: Can anyone else hear? Mark started saying something then it's went silent in TC. ..
272420/02/2016, 16:42 - D Tooth: Yes I got kicked off again
272520/02/2016, 16:42 - D Tooth: Was I I muted
272620/02/2016, 16:43 - A Sami: No. I cannot hear anything.
2727
2728Someone on TC needs to mute their phone.
2729
2730I think Johann muted the VC then went out to have a word with Mark Porter.
2731
2732We are waiting to the meeting to resume
273320/02/2016, 16:43 - D Tooth: Or unmuted
273420/02/2016, 16:43 - C Sheridan: It sounded a bit stressy when mark spoke...
273520/02/2016, 16:44 - A Yassaee: Is it worth dialling in?
273620/02/2016, 16:44 - A Yassaee: Or are we coming to a close?
273720/02/2016, 16:44 - A Sami: Not yet, Aarash.
273820/02/2016, 16:44 - A Sami: The meeting is on hold
273920/02/2016, 16:44 - A Yassaee: Sweet. Champagne it is.
274020/02/2016, 16:44 - D Tooth: Ok what did mark say id been kicked out
274120/02/2016, 16:45 - C Sheridan: Arrash. You #möetmedic
274220/02/2016, 16:46 - A Sami: When Johann said something about making recommendation to the Dispute Committee, Mark thought we cannot do this for some reason. 
2743
2744So, Johann posed the meeting to clarify this point with Mark before resuming the meeting.
2745
2746It won't be long
274720/02/2016, 16:46 - A Yassaee: Cools.
274820/02/2016, 16:47 - C Sheridan: Mark was saying something like "I've told you repeatedly" it sounded like though. Hope Johann you are OK out there!
274920/02/2016, 16:49 - M Redman: ??????
275020/02/2016, 16:49 - A Collier Has Mark killed Johann?
275120/02/2016, 16:51 - A Sami: Or vice versa?
275220/02/2016, 16:52 - A Collier What was being discussed when the meeting was paused?
275320/02/2016, 16:55 - M Redman: Whether or not Johann can make recommendation about dates to dispute cmte
275420/02/2016, 16:55 - C Sheridan: I think johann was saying JDC had to give a recommendation to the disputes committee and had given a date of 29th Feb as the earliest further IA could be
275520/02/2016, 16:55 - D Tooth: In still out of Tc are others in
275620/02/2016, 16:55 - C Sheridan: Im Still sitting in the silent TC Donna!
275720/02/2016, 16:55 - M Redman: But it wasn't explicitly clear, so Johann switched off his Mic and very professionally asked for break
275820/02/2016, 16:55 - M Redman: Back now
275920/02/2016, 16:55 - Z Greaves: Johann is back in the room!!
276020/02/2016, 16:55 - C Sheridan: And we're back...
276120/02/2016, 16:56 - Z Greaves: But infant hear anything
276220/02/2016, 16:56 - Z Greaves: Is mic on?
276320/02/2016, 16:56 - Z Greaves: Can't
276420/02/2016, 16:56 - Z Greaves: Sorry my error
276520/02/2016, 16:59 - Z Greaves: Is David still point of contact for those of us wanting to speak? I'm not getting a reply
276620/02/2016, 17:00 - Z Greaves: It's ok I've had a response
276720/02/2016, 17:10 - A Yassaee: Listening in
276820/02/2016, 17:10 - A Sami: IA 48hrs or 72hrs Emergency Care as a response to the announcememt of imposition please!
276920/02/2016, 17:16 - A Sami: And done on either sides of monthly pay days so it spread between two pay cheques
277020/02/2016, 17:35 - L J Davis: Is it home time yet?
277120/02/2016, 17:36 - A Sami: No. You are staying on the naughty step for another hour
277220/02/2016, 17:36 - L J Davis: Is it because I said I wanted chocolate?
277320/02/2016, 17:36 - A Sami: Absolutely!
277420/02/2016, 17:38 - C Sheridan: I'd happily sit on the step if I got chocolate ljd
277520/02/2016, 17:45 - L J Davis: I have to go feed the baby... I'll be in the dickens room & may need reviving...
277620/02/2016, 17:55 - A Collins: Is it worth Melo and I TCing back in from this train
277720/02/2016, 17:55 - A Sami: Yes
277820/02/2016, 17:55 - Z Greaves: I'm off in 5 mins
277920/02/2016, 17:56 - A Collins: number pleasw?
278020/02/2016, 17:57 - A Collins: That's me on TC
278120/02/2016, 17:57 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
278220/02/2016, 17:57 - D Tooth: At the top of picture
278320/02/2016, 17:59 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
278420/02/2016, 17:59 - M Redman: We're on
278520/02/2016, 18:00 - A Collier I've joined on the phone
278620/02/2016, 18:04 - M Redman: So what happened between JR & now
278720/02/2016, 18:05 - A Yassaee: The report - we need to be involved but politically i wonder if it would be better if someone else officially headed it
278820/02/2016, 18:06 - A Yassaee: Members Email tonight? Did i hear correctly?
278920/02/2016, 18:08 - A Sami: Yes, Aarash
279020/02/2016, 18:08 - A Yassaee: Has the meeting finished or is my signal awful?
279120/02/2016, 18:09 - C Sheridan: Finished
279220/02/2016, 18:09 - A Yassaee: Ta
279320/02/2016, 18:09 - C Sheridan: Have a good night all. Safe trips home etc to those travelling!
279420/02/2016, 18:17 - A Collins: ta
279520/02/2016, 18:21 - A Borbora: Sorry had to depart for a train
279620/02/2016, 18:22 - A Sami: Not acceptable, Aaron!  
2797You could have walked home ??
279820/02/2016, 18:27 - D Rouse: There was a vote
279920/02/2016, 18:27 - D Rouse: To say we start with emergency care only
280020/02/2016, 18:27 - A Collins: ....eventually
280120/02/2016, 18:27 - D Rouse: Not full walk out
280220/02/2016, 18:27 - D Rouse: There was a vote to reject engagement with the moral review
280320/02/2016, 18:27 - D Rouse: Both passed
280420/02/2016, 18:31 - D Tooth: Morale
280520/02/2016, 18:31 - D Tooth: A moral review would be quite good
280620/02/2016, 18:31 - H Carter: Yannis, I felt the discussion was erring on the side of unprofessional (note I haven't said that it was unprofessional or that people were acting in an unprofessional way). The indicator for that was that I felt uncomfortable. I also felt that people were arguing for increased transparency whilst also being cryptic about the rumours that they had heard. There was part of the discussion where I felt that it was of no benefit to the committee, nor was intended to be of benefit. I don't think this was one person in particular or a group of people either. It was a general feeling and I think caused the room to fall out of order. Aaron had to remind the room of that at one point.
280720/02/2016, 18:31 - D Rouse: The BMA will look to do its own
280820/02/2016, 18:33 - A Collier So we're not engaging with the review? I think that's a mistake.
280920/02/2016, 18:34 - D Rouse: We are not engaging in the review
281020/02/2016, 18:34 - A Borbora: Harrison please could we take this discussion into a listserver?
281120/02/2016, 18:34 - A Collier We'll be viewed as biased and have limited grounds to criticise/praise the other review. Oh well.
281220/02/2016, 18:35 - D Rouse: My discussion is just informing those who had to leave what was said nothing more
281320/02/2016, 18:35 - D Rouse: Any discuss to list server
281420/02/2016, 18:35 - H Carter: I'm happy that decisions were made but I got the distinct feeling that some members of JDC left the meeting feeling less than positive about the process and I think that was in part due to the way in which questions were directed and in some cases, accusations made.
281520/02/2016, 18:35 - A Yassaee: Yes  maybe a listserver chat    but I don't think we should head "our"review
281620/02/2016, 18:35 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Harrison. All valid points. Will go onto list server and address.
281720/02/2016, 18:36 - Y Gourtsouyannis: (Latr or tmro) :-)
281820/02/2016, 18:36 - A Collier David, i think Aaron was asking about the parallel discussion on nature of discussion to be moved.
281920/02/2016, 18:37 - A Collier I wouldn't want to criticise a democratically arrived at decision (esp if I wasn't present when it was discussed).
282020/02/2016, 18:37 - H Carter: Haha! Of course. To be clear. I'm not casting blame on anybody. Yannis, I think you made very positive points throughout the meeting that reminded committee members of where we were at in the discussions. Anyway, to listserver (after food).
282120/02/2016, 18:51 - M Redman: How do you guys answer reps who ask why they don't get told info before General membership
282220/02/2016, 18:51 - M Redman: (I imagine the same way as me, just testing it out...)
282320/02/2016, 18:51 - D Rouse: I think I'm locked in BMA house
282420/02/2016, 18:51 - D Rouse: Slight issue
282520/02/2016, 18:52 - D Rouse: In the security lodge no security ppl
282620/02/2016, 18:52 - D Rouse: And the black gaits are locked
282720/02/2016, 18:52 - D Tooth: Have a nice weekend David!
282820/02/2016, 18:52 - A Collins: oh Diva Dave dw, I'm sure a nice chap will be down to let you out soon. Have you tried your badge at the right hand side of the black gates where the employee entrance/exit is?
282920/02/2016, 18:54 - A Collins: Melo I explain to them that if I do not share information with them it is because it is of a sensitive or privileged nature. Other than that if there is information that I think is pertinent I will send it to things like SJDC-L and or to our RJDC reps if I think it will pertain to them. I appreciate in Scotland we're not facing anything like the same pressures though so...
283020/02/2016, 18:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Johann...r.e moving beyond cost neutrality. Rubicon crossed today indeed.....with regards to the motion that was displayed...when will that go 'live'. When can we publicise?
283120/02/2016, 18:56 - D Rouse: Where
283220/02/2016, 18:59 - A Collins: There is a swipe in/out entrance much like the one inside reception just to the right of the big gates (as you look at them from the inside) that security have let me out of OOH before, I think its in a wee vestibule, but the vestibule itself may be locked.
283320/02/2016, 19:03 - D Rouse: Freedom!!??
283420/02/2016, 19:03 - D Rouse: Freedom!!!!!!
283520/02/2016, 19:04 - B Roberts: Were you being a diva there?!
283620/02/2016, 19:05 - A Collins: haha
283720/02/2016, 19:13 - L J Davis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hitchens was on our train. We're all in first with our Bma badges on!!!
283820/02/2016, 19:14 - A Collins: LOL
283920/02/2016, 19:15 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Do not assume he is against. Get a photo and get him to wear a badge.
284020/02/2016, 19:18 - A Borbora: He's ok. I've met him a few times.
284120/02/2016, 19:18 - L J Davis: He's got off now. He liked Rory
284220/02/2016, 19:22 - D Rouse: He writes for the mail. 
2843
2844LJD I am trying to think of a Moët medics slogan for you all.
284520/02/2016, 19:23 - A Collins: Did you tell him Rory's mummy was a junior doctor?
284620/02/2016, 19:25 - D Rouse: Expense Money Medics
284720/02/2016, 19:26 - A Collins: Expense-ive BMA Reps
284820/02/2016, 19:27 - D Rouse: Rip off registrars
284920/02/2016, 19:58 - B Roberts: I don't think we said anything controversial!
285020/02/2016, 20:06 - J Malawana: Yannis it will be in the members email that we are sending out. I have just changed the members email to include it.
285120/02/2016, 20:06 - J Malawana: Once that's out you can talk about it.
285220/02/2016, 20:13 - B Roberts: Can someone send me a copy when it's out? Being Welsh, I don't get all the English updated and WJDC are keen to know what's happening for the very reason I outlined in my e-mail - we are not safe in Wales!
285320/02/2016, 20:13 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Coolio
285420/02/2016, 20:14 - B Roberts: Updates, even...
285520/02/2016, 20:15 - A Sami: What's your email, Bethan?
285620/02/2016, 20:16 - B Roberts: bwtsi@hotmail.com
2857
2858Thanks, Amjad!
285920/02/2016, 20:16 - B Roberts: I'll forward it to Chris and Conan if needed.
286020/02/2016, 20:17 - A Sami: Sent. You are welcome
286120/02/2016, 20:24 - B Roberts: Thanks again, Amjad.
2862
2863Chris and Conan, you should now have sight of this from the WJDC listserver. Conan, I hope you're well enough to read it!
286420/02/2016, 20:31 - K Mohan: Conan are you ok?
286520/02/2016, 20:34 - B Roberts: My earlier message asking if Conan was well enough to read it didn't send - hope you are ok!
286620/02/2016, 21:00 - A Collier Oi Collins, we're only calling it a house when it suits my purpose as a rhetorical device :-)
286720/02/2016, 21:02 - A Collins: Can we agree that I can reference calling it a house when I think I've been being too serious on list and need to make a joke to lighten the mood then? ;)
286820/02/2016, 21:22 - C Sheridan: Thanks bethan
286920/02/2016, 21:24 - B Roberts: Chris, I failed to post earlier that you could see them via WJDC listserver but the boss has sent it to JDC now in any case!
287020/02/2016, 21:24 - B Roberts: GWR wifi is shocking #tregothnanteamedic
287120/02/2016, 21:30 - M Redman: Great email Johann. I'm v pleased with content and timing. thanks
287220/02/2016, 21:32 - M Redman: Was nice to see you all (well, not all!) today.
287320/02/2016, 21:36 - M Redman: Just realised that may imply it was *unpleasant* to see some of you. That was of course just targeted at bethan ;) JOKES . I meant that not all of you were there. But those that were, it was nice to see. obvs.
287420/02/2016, 21:51 - A Collins: Conan lives :D
287520/02/2016, 21:51 - A Collins: Can confirm he's ok
287620/02/2016, 22:07 - B Roberts: Melody, I'll have you for bullying and harassment!
287720/02/2016, 22:27 - C Castles: Just home. Ct brain and lumbar puncture done, viral meningitis likely. At least it's not just man flu Amjad :-)
287820/02/2016, 22:27 - C Castles: And I'm doped up on codeine so things seem on
287920/02/2016, 22:28 - D Tooth: Oh good lord, you poor bloke! 
2880The thought of a lp makes me shudder!
288120/02/2016, 22:28 - C Castles: OK I mean, not on
288220/02/2016, 22:28 - D Tooth: Take good care and plenty of rest xx
288320/02/2016, 22:29 - K Mohan: Oh Conan. Rest up and hope feel better soon.
288420/02/2016, 22:29 - C Castles: They were nice to me, and got anaesthetics down to do it with a smaller needle. It actually wasnt bad, not even as sore as getting blood taken, though he did use a little lignocaine.
288520/02/2016, 22:30 - C Castles: It was the ed I used to work in, so got special treatment
288620/02/2016, 22:31 - D Tooth: Glad to hear it. There should be some perks right? Glad your home
288720/02/2016, 22:32 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
288820/02/2016, 22:32 - A Collins: Reproduced by the indy who declined to point out its satirical nature...
288920/02/2016, 22:33 - B Roberts: Conan! Goodness me! Stay strong, dude, and get well soon!
289020/02/2016, 22:36 - A Borbora: Maybe that's why the independent is ceasing print publication?
289120/02/2016, 22:36 - A Sami: Connan! Thank God it is viral meningitis not man flu!
2892
2893You will be fine ??
2894
2895Seriously though, as Melody would say, OMD!
2896
2897I hope you get better soon, mate!
2898
2899Good job Steph did not listen to you!
290020/02/2016, 22:39 - H Carter: Can somebody tell me very quickly if I can share the details of Johann's message to jnr docs on my Facebook and twitter?
290120/02/2016, 22:39 - H Carter: I don't see why not because I would only be sharing exact quotes. However I'm so paranoid by what to share nowadays that I think its important to seek clarification.
290220/02/2016, 22:42 - A Collins: Should be fine imo
290320/02/2016, 22:42 - A Collins: I guess definitive answer fro yoyo though
290420/02/2016, 22:42 - A Collins: Call him?
290520/02/2016, 22:43 - L J Davis: Oh Conan! Sending lots of love; rest lots! X
290620/02/2016, 22:46 - C Castles: Thank you everyone.
290720/02/2016, 22:49 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
290820/02/2016, 22:51 - B Roberts: Would anyone be offended if I posted a mini-rant on the "Dalton plus" vote on listserver? Maybe tomorrow as I need time to adjust after finally getting off a train today but I think we got this wrong. Possibly related to the number of deputies in the room and possibly due to people not knowing the significance of what they were voting on (for what it's worth). Will post on listserver some time soon...
290920/02/2016, 22:53 - A Collins: You have considerably more experience but I would in general caution people on contesting democratic decisions, particularly as a DN Rep/Chair. But I won't stop you or speak against it unless you're very outrageous, I disagree with it too fwiw
291020/02/2016, 22:56 - A Borbora: No you should go ahead if you feel there is something to discuss
291120/02/2016, 22:56 - A Borbora: I'm not sure that being from a DN makes a difference
291220/02/2016, 22:57 - B Roberts: I'm too tired to post coherently tonight so I'll stick something on listserver tomorrow.
291320/02/2016, 22:58 - B Roberts: Also why I highlighted that we are not safe in Wales - I don't want people to think that Wales simply isn't part of this because we are. I can see how being from a DN could be interpreted but...
291420/02/2016, 22:58 - B Roberts: We are one profession and we stand together!
291520/02/2016, 23:00 - A Borbora: It feeds into a discussion about a 4-nation contract so should be had.
291620/02/2016, 23:02 - A Sami: Go for it, Bethan, after you had rested, tomorrow. 
2917
2918We are learning together
291920/02/2016, 23:03 - B Roberts: Will do, once I've worked out how to frame it so that I don't sound extremely patronising!
292020/02/2016, 23:04 - K Mohan: Which listserver do you mean, Bethy?
292120/02/2016, 23:04 - K Mohan: JDC or exec?
292220/02/2016, 23:06 - K Mohan: I'd just be careful that people don't feel you're trying to rehash a decision- corporate responsibility and all. However discussion and debate should always be encouraged in my view. And we all  are going to need to defend decisions made today so rehearsing arguments isn't really a problem - as long as framed constructively, as you say.
292320/02/2016, 23:09 - A Collins: See, kitty said what I meant. Thanks  kitty. :d
292421/02/2016, 00:30 - C Castles: Catching up on today's posts- congratulations Arrash
292521/02/2016, 10:25 - M Redman: David who did you hand in York's 1200 signatures to?
292621/02/2016, 10:26 - M Redman: Conan - you poor thing, hope you feel better soon!
292721/02/2016, 13:25 - D Rouse: Handed onto rob kidneys desk with the other 100000
292821/02/2016, 13:26 - M Redman: Lol. Thanks ??
292921/02/2016, 14:34 - A Yassaee: Cheers Conan, although I have little more than survive three years post graduation to earn it. Hope you're feeling better!
293021/02/2016, 14:37 - L Boyle: What I said on list - no disrespect to Kitty or Bethan or anyone else wanting the current
293121/02/2016, 14:44 - L J Davis: Bit late on that, Luke.
293221/02/2016, 14:57 - K Mohan: Not at all from my perspective. I'm not entirely sure that a post-mortem is in our interests though. JDC needs to be unified behind the collective decision now it has been made- I certainly intend to be. :)
293321/02/2016, 15:09 - L Boyle: Bit late on what, LJD?
293421/02/2016, 15:11 - L Boyle: I didn't see Bethan's post in this group until after I'd read & responded on list. Bethan & Kitty know I respect them both highly, but the beauty of JDC is we can strongly disagree with each other at times (this is a RARE occasion when I do disagree, to add) & it not be personal at all. So I hope I didn't offend :)
293521/02/2016, 15:31 - K Mohan: I'd be far more worried if we all agreed the whole time tbh. :)
293621/02/2016, 17:26 - B Roberts: ^agree with that statement!
293721/02/2016, 17:33 - B Roberts: Disagreement does not mean a lack of respect - love you, too, Luke!
293821/02/2016, 17:42 - L Boyle: ??
293921/02/2016, 18:24 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
294021/02/2016, 23:53 - A Collier A few moments ago Darshan sent an email to the list server expressing concerns about the existence and use of this Whatsapp group. Obviously this merits a response but u don't think it's my place to do that.
294121/02/2016, 23:53 - A Collins: I had a similar feeling.
294221/02/2016, 23:54 - A Collins: Although perhaps us all discussing what to say in response on here is pushing irony to its limits.
294321/02/2016, 23:54 - A Collier I agree with that sentiment.
294421/02/2016, 23:56 - C Sheridan: Prob should be a Johann response? Until then, plausible deniability...
2945
2946Seriously would it be fair to say that policy stuff is put on listserver and this is more for chat, in any response?
294722/02/2016, 00:03 - D Rouse: I use a lot of pictures of cats
294822/02/2016, 00:05 - A Collins: Perhaps a selection could be shared as evidence? He's such a calming colour of blue/grey
294922/02/2016, 00:11 - A Yassaee: That's the first of his emails that turned up in my spam
295022/02/2016, 00:12 - D Rouse: Are you accusing my cat of being a conservative
295122/02/2016, 00:13 - A Collins: No I literally really like his colour!
295222/02/2016, 00:42 - D Rouse: He is pretty
295322/02/2016, 01:08 - J Malawana: I am obviously concerned not that this group exists, but that the existence of this group is being used I assume by someone party to its messages to fuel suspicion and division even when we are talking about David's cats. I have over the last couple of weeks reflected heavily on trust and in light of that I will ask members of this group to assume every single message in this group will be being fed outside of this group and so to take the steps necessary as a result to look after your own interests. I am sorry it has come to this but I haven't ever felt so undermined in a role as I have in this one and I find that an interesting feeling to consider. I would say that the support of the majority of exec members I appreciate incredibly. I consider many of you now friends but I would not be doing my job if I didn't say this.
295422/02/2016, 01:37 - A Yassaee: Thanks for replying to the thread so quickly Johann (it's certainly made me feel more at ease about the situation) but if you haven't already, go to bed!
295522/02/2016, 01:40 - A Collins: I think addressing the key issues head on here was vital Johann and I feel that you have done so, so thank you for that.
295622/02/2016, 01:57 - L J Davis: I actually can't think of what to say. I am so disappointed that someone would feel the need to undermine the trust that exists within our team. 
2957As an informal way to build rapport, understanding and a shared perspective, this group has been invaluable.
2958It is sad that someone doesn't think confidentiality is important in this context.
295922/02/2016, 06:30 - L Boyle: I am equally disappointed - disgusted in fact.
2960Though it sadly comes as no surprise, having seen a screenshot from this group captioned "his bullshit" posted in the group apparently by accident, just a few weeks ago. 
2961Unfortunately have to assume anything said on here can be screenshotted for forwarding to a third party, but equally I haven't read anything on here (bar jokes about cats etc) that individuals should be embarrassed about, were it to be scrutinised by a JDC member, hypothetically. 
2962The irony is (since it's encrypted) that whatsapp is a more secure mode of communication than most email anyway!
296322/02/2016, 07:01 - B Roberts: This makes me sad :(
296422/02/2016, 07:42 - D Tooth: Makes me feel sick
296522/02/2016, 07:48 - H Carter: Johann I think your message was appropriate. You tackled the issues. Honestly though, the confidential nature of this group does seem to have been compromised. That still makes me uncomfortable.
296622/02/2016, 07:49 - M Redman: Yeah - thank you Johann.
2967??
296822/02/2016, 07:53 - K Mohan: Unsurprising considering the number of people on this group sadly.
2969
2970I think the "chat" here does lead to better discussions on the listserver - it's rare for an email to go out and not get a single response whilst that used to happen all the time. 
2971
2972Just one point, Darshan's email has said we are bullies. Let's not underestimate the seriousness of that. I'm not going to reflect more on that but hope it will be picked up appropriately. 
2973
2974That said I think we need to plough on through. I have a interview today so am switching this off for now.
297522/02/2016, 07:54 - D Rouse: Good luck!!
297622/02/2016, 07:55 - M Redman: Hope it goes well Kitty!!!!!
297722/02/2016, 07:56 - Z Greaves: Very sad and very hurt by this can't imagine how you must feel Johann :(  ... This was set up as a confidential and safe space, and that someone would so patently breach that in such great detail is personally hurtful to each of us.  I can't recall any occasion when this group has been used to bad mouth members of JDC, but if I or any of us have made anyone feel singled out then I am sincerely sorry ... there have been robust discussions where views have obviously differed which is completely to be expected when you have a diversity of political opinions united over a single issue but I had hoped that our unity of cause was stronger than any disagreements had on this group ... I like to be an optimist and whilst we all know there had been a past breach of this groups confidentiality, I liked to hope that that had served as a lesson for all of us as to how important trust was within this group. It seems that lesson has not been learnt and I genuinely feel my faith in humanity has been chipped away a little this morning.  I do think we need to acknowledge that there was one occasion when this group overstepped its bounds and was used to vote but that is the responsibility of each of us who voted and not just Johann.  And I am actually proud that the very next morning the challenge to that decision came from within the very group and set us back on path again.  No group is perfect, but the fact that the good conscience and trust within the group was such that the decision could be immediately challenged and a shift back to listserver made speaks volumes.
297822/02/2016, 07:58 - H Carter: Kitty, very best lf luck!!
297922/02/2016, 07:58 - H Carter: Hope the job also involves teaching medical students ??. (I bet you hope that it doesn't).
298022/02/2016, 08:00 - D Tooth: Good luck kitty
298122/02/2016, 08:07 - M Redman: (Kitty, please note I refrained from using multiple heart and thumbs up emojis and said it in words instead)
298222/02/2016, 08:07 - Z Greaves: Yes all the best
298322/02/2016, 08:07 - Z Greaves: Lol
298422/02/2016, 08:08 - K Mohan: Sorry I'm back. Just one more thing. I'm just going to put this out there but I understood that the criticism of the meeting which took place after the extra Monday night JDC was that it was arranged by whatsapp, and discussion whether it should happen, happened by whatsapp, and whilst it was an VC/TC meeting as a large no of people were on TC voting happened on whatsapp. 
2985
2986I may have completely misinterpreted this so at some stage (after 3pm when likely to be drowning sorrows) would appreciate clarity on this.
2987
2988Thanks "Exec family" for your good wishes.  ;)
298922/02/2016, 08:09 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Want to add to this discussion but running so late for work i cant. Hopefully will write tonight. P.S good email johann. P.P.S to get back to the task at hand....when might an announcement r.e IA be occuring?
299022/02/2016, 08:10 - D Rouse: Guess that's up to the disputes committee Yannis
299122/02/2016, 08:11 - A Borbora: I'm going to take that head on Luke. 
2992I sent that message to Lottie so she could continue to be involved in the Exec despite leaving this group. If anyone wants to call me a liar go right ahead and supply your reasoning. 
2993The existence of this group is hardly a secret and nor should it be. It's been discussed at Exec meetings. 
2994Equally if Darshan's complaint is unfounded then he should be called out on it. 
2995I'm quite happy for every single message I've sent on here to be downloaded to JDC-L. 
2996I'm profoundly disappointed that the response to Darshan's accusations has been for the accusations of leaks and malice to resurface. This isn't why any of us are involved.
299722/02/2016, 08:15 - A Collier Just read your reply Johann, blistering.
2998
2999Many members of exec feel hurt by the accusations levelled at us and by the perceived breach of trust that has occurred. 
3000
3001Though Darshan's email is ill informed but should serve as a reminder to keep discussions in the right fora.
3002
3003You all know that since a few of us raised concerns about our use of this group to convene a meeting there has been a concerted effort to keep policy discussion on the list server. Since then I've been perfectly happy with our discussions here.
3004
3005My only request is...no more bloody cat pictures!
300622/02/2016, 08:17 - D Rouse: Then and now
300722/02/2016, 08:17 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
300822/02/2016, 08:17 - A Collier Argh!
300922/02/2016, 08:17 - D Rouse: You love it
301022/02/2016, 08:18 - D Rouse: You know you do!!!!
301122/02/2016, 08:18 - A Collier It's JUST A CAT!
301222/02/2016, 08:18 - D Rouse: It's a beautiful cat
301322/02/2016, 08:18 - A Collier I may be provoked into retaliation with pictures of classic cars!
301422/02/2016, 08:20 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
301522/02/2016, 08:20 - D Rouse: Budgie??
301622/02/2016, 08:20 - D Rouse: Scary but I actually like cars
301722/02/2016, 08:20 - L J Davis: Is it a dead one?
301822/02/2016, 08:20 - L J Davis: As in the parrot?
301922/02/2016, 08:22 - K Mohan: i know no votes but... all in favour of david not posting photos of animals/birds/reptiles or fish?
302022/02/2016, 08:22 - K Mohan: :)
302122/02/2016, 08:23 - D Tooth: Aye
302222/02/2016, 08:23 - D Rouse: So crack on
302322/02/2016, 08:23 - D Rouse: Lol
302422/02/2016, 08:23 - L J Davis: I like the cat photos
302522/02/2016, 08:25 - D Rouse: Thank you. I will reduce their frequency
302622/02/2016, 08:25 - A Borbora: Claws away!
302722/02/2016, 08:25 - A Borbora: Put the cat in with the budgie and let the feathers fly.
302822/02/2016, 08:26 - D Rouse: Three budgies vs one cat that could be a difficult one to call
302922/02/2016, 08:56 - Z Greaves: My odds are on the cat - but I think I need more picture to truly call it
303022/02/2016, 09:02 - A Collier I used to like you Zoe.
303122/02/2016, 09:08 - Z Greaves: ????
303222/02/2016, 09:57 - A Collins: Whilst I think that Johann's direct reply to Darshan was appropriate and excellent, I felt it was important to address the issues that he raised head on, particularly that of bullying, as it is a serious allegation and not one that I find to be well founded in this group. I consider many of exec to be new friends, and to be a great support in what has frankly been a very challenging 6 months for me, and I'm extremely grateful both that we have this group to talk in, and to those of exec who have offered me personal advice and guidance. 
3033
3034I find any accusations that this has descended into unprofessional targeting of individual members of JDC to be extraordinary, and affronting, and I hope that we can lay the issue to bed.
303522/02/2016, 11:24 - A Borbora: I'll be blunt here Adam but I don't think your reply was appropriate. 
3036A number of members of exec have said in exec meetings that a vote was taken by whatsapp and have said it was inappropriate. You have told JDC that such a thing didn't happen. Either it did or it didn't. 
3037From a personal perspective this group has caused me to consider walking away from the BMA several times this year and I'm now doing so yet again.
303822/02/2016, 11:28 - A Yassaee: "although it has occasionally been used much like email is used in some meetings, for those on VC to communicate votes to the chair/committee."
303922/02/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: What arrash said.
304022/02/2016, 12:21 - J Malawana: If we are going to go over this again after we discussed and made a decision in light of this event, I am going to ask again for everyone to put it on the listserver simply because I want to protect exec members from the messages on this thread being used against exec members and from a selfish perspective myself. Over the last 48 hours I have spent as much time on the cultural issues of JDC as I have on the work of the committee. That has meant that Yannis' appropriate question about next steps has been delayed because I have to spend time not dealing with several things. 
3041
3042I am now reviewing many of my decisions to ensure that I feel I am able to be confident of them. At least one has already come to light where I took chairs action so I will be putting those formally to exec to decide whether it wishes to over turn them or ratify them. 
3043
3044We will also need to think about the cultural aspect of JDC at some point. I had resisted doing that as a distraction from the important work we have ahead of us. But in light of recent events exec may wish to relook at that and I will also have a lot to say on the subject. Particularly on the aspects of trust and responsibility of members of JDC and whether a code of conduct maybe appropriate.
304522/02/2016, 13:31 - L Boyle: Aaron - I don't want to fall out, I've always respected you & you work hard for JDC. To be clear - I am not calling you a liar.
3046However, you speak on listserver about 'engendering an atmosphere...' where member views are not dismissed, yet you yourself have dismissed the views of another member of JDC Exec as "bullshit". That is completely unacceptable, even in a message to your girlfriend.
3047It is RANK hypocrisy & double standards that I'm taking issue with.
304822/02/2016, 13:50 - A Collins: Aaron I have clarified my previous statement re: WhatsApp votes in response to Lottie's email on the list server. 
3049
3050I feel generally that that is the appropriate place to discuss such things, so that we can remain open and transparent, particularly when the original concern was raised by a member of JDC who does not sit on exec. It avoids the accusation that we are preparing answers on a secret group, or that we are dismissing concerns by discussing them amongst ourselves here.
305122/02/2016, 13:55 - A Borbora: No chance of falling out, Luke. We've  known each other long enough not to loose sight of things over this.
305222/02/2016, 14:49 - L Boyle: :)
305322/02/2016, 15:21 - Z Greaves: How did the interview go kitty??
305422/02/2016, 16:21 - K Mohan: ACL -ve :((
305522/02/2016, 16:23 - K Mohan: But who needs an ACL when you have this .,,
305622/02/2016, 16:23 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
305722/02/2016, 16:23 - A Collins: Aww kitty! They don't know what they're missing!
305822/02/2016, 16:24 - D Rouse: What's an ACL
305922/02/2016, 16:24 - C Sheridan: Kitty have you stolen a child? Sorry you missed out this time
306022/02/2016, 16:25 - A Collins: Anterior cruciate ligament. Come on Dave. Even in triage nursing that's common? :p
306122/02/2016, 16:28 - D Rouse: Huh
306222/02/2016, 16:28 - D Rouse: Thought you had an interview
306322/02/2016, 16:28 - D Rouse: Why were they wanted your ACL
306422/02/2016, 16:28 - D Rouse: Academic clinical lecturer
306522/02/2016, 16:29 - D Rouse: Or sir tbing I thought
306622/02/2016, 16:29 - A Collier I hope you're not being belittled Dacid
306722/02/2016, 16:31 - K Mohan: Ljd's mate got the job. Although having not discussed BMA stuff at all the chair of the panel as she saw he out patted me on the shoulder and said "keep up your BMA work!".
306822/02/2016, 16:32 - L Boyle: I'm sorry to hear that Kitty. I interviewed last wk for my PhD & the panel said to my face that they despised the BMA
306922/02/2016, 16:33 - L Boyle: The academic community does not like us. MASC accepts this as a major prob
307022/02/2016, 16:34 - A Collier I hope you replied "is it cos I is BMA?" alla Ali G.
307122/02/2016, 16:34 - Z Greaves: Aww sad times :( ... their loss x
307222/02/2016, 16:35 - A Collins: Oh wow did not realise that Luke! 
3073Kitty, glad you were encouraged with it, very sorry to hear about the job! (and sorry David... You know I love you really)
307422/02/2016, 16:36 - D Rouse: Collins. :-|
307522/02/2016, 16:36 - D Rouse: Lol
307622/02/2016, 16:36 - D Rouse: So me a
307722/02/2016, 16:36 - D Rouse: Mean
307822/02/2016, 16:41 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
307922/02/2016, 16:42 - Z Greaves: ??
308022/02/2016, 16:42 - Z Greaves: What don't the academics like about us?
308122/02/2016, 16:49 - A Yassaee: Probably because the BMA says no to everything?
308222/02/2016, 17:01 - Z Greaves: ?? that is what Wendy Reid keeps saying - it's not true and it makes me cross
308322/02/2016, 17:14 - J Malawana: Is Wendy actually academic?
308422/02/2016, 17:14 - J Malawana: Oh bugger hope that's not belittling of wendy?!
308522/02/2016, 17:15 - M Redman: BMA stuff was scrutinised terribly in 2 of my ACF interviews too. 
3086
3087But kitty also if they had internal candidate, these things often slimey.
3088
3089You would have been great and I'm sorry... as Zoe says, their loss.
309022/02/2016, 17:16 - M Redman: I'm glad you're stocking up on cuddles!!!!?
309122/02/2016, 17:27 - A Yassaee: For personal learning  - how do they know about BMA or is it volunteered?
309222/02/2016, 17:29 - L J Davis: Unfortunately they're not keen on Bma stuff in my training programme... You wouldn't like it kitty.... They are very mean :(
3093
3094But I'm sad you're not coming to bristol :(
309522/02/2016, 17:31 - L J Davis: I'm trapped here!!!
309622/02/2016, 17:31 - J Malawana: It's not just BMA stuff. They generally hate political stuff. Even GMC etc.
309722/02/2016, 17:31 - M Redman: I always put bma E&T on my cv. How can I not? It's something I'm passionate about. 
3098
3099Cambridge proper ripped into it (and writing for Yorkshire Post)
310022/02/2016, 17:31 - J Malawana: What most people want to see is completion of projects.
310122/02/2016, 17:32 - J Malawana: They assume political people are trouble makers that aren't going to deliver jobs
310222/02/2016, 17:32 - J Malawana: I would always talk about completed projects
310322/02/2016, 17:32 - A Yassaee: Yeah that's what i would have thought.
310422/02/2016, 17:33 - L J Davis: I think it's also the pervading thinking about the uselessness of the Bma/how people see 'political' as an insult
310522/02/2016, 17:34 - A Yassaee: I'm just curious because I'm debating whether to also exclude royal college stuff when it's my turn to apply
310622/02/2016, 17:35 - L J Davis: Depends what you've done & what you're applying for
310722/02/2016, 17:35 - A Yassaee: (It'll be fellowships and then ACF)
310822/02/2016, 17:35 - L J Davis: In?
310922/02/2016, 17:36 - A Yassaee: Paeds for the ACF
311022/02/2016, 17:36 - A Yassaee: Either a QI or a leadership one for the former
311122/02/2016, 17:37 - L J Davis: Fellowships, yes; acf depends what you did/who you're applying to, I guess
311222/02/2016, 17:38 - L J Davis: Just don't say you know Johann ??
311322/02/2016, 17:39 - M Redman: I guess it varies depending on how you sell it and who's listening with any preformed ideas. But you have PLENTY to talk about without bma stuff too.
3114
3115I think talking about battles have fought for e&t issues is Good for leadership, but I've not got a London acf to show for it, sooooo...
311622/02/2016, 17:40 - M Redman: You should talk to Luke about that kinda stuff.
311722/02/2016, 17:47 - A Collier I actually think there is not a generalised anti-Bma feeling out there amongst to the academic community. Supervisors and trainees learn from experience. If they have had bad experiences with Bma orientated people in the past they are more likely to view future applicants in a harsh light. Within the north-west there is certainly a very positive attitude towards both trade union activity and other external representative for work.
311822/02/2016, 17:59 - L Boyle: The academic community are generally anti-BMA, no question. MASC undertook a major piece of work which showed that world class academics are reluctant to get involved. Geraint Rees was pulled out by UCL who basically told him if he didn't leave they would take that to mean he didn't value his career & progression to faculty head or whatever he is now...I assume is stems from the perception of boat rocking, and they want highly focused people - swanning off to London every 5 minutes is not actually an unreasonable concern, frankly, if you're hiring people to fund in a lab where there is pressure ++++ to generate millions of £ for the uni in the REC.
311922/02/2016, 18:40 - L J Davis: ??Geraint
312022/02/2016, 18:49 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
312122/02/2016, 18:49 - K Mohan: Ha. It was fine. I interviewed well and the presentation went well but it was just (as I presumed) set up for the internal candidate- they wanted to know specifics of who I would do very specific research with and as not from the region I just couldn't compete. Never mind. I also told them I wanted to stay LTFT and do non-academic work in areas they didn't really want me to. ;)
312222/02/2016, 18:50 - A Collier They hadn't answered any questions at all in the first 25 minutes
312322/02/2016, 19:12 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
312422/02/2016, 19:13 - C Sheridan: Must've went well then...
312522/02/2016, 19:15 - A Collins: Yes swimmingly I understand
312622/02/2016, 19:19 - D Rouse: Disrespectful being the summary lol
312722/02/2016, 19:24 - A Collins: I think incompetent is important too
312822/02/2016, 19:24 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
312922/02/2016, 19:33 - A Collier I prefer the Radio One Roadshow
313022/02/2016, 19:41 - L J Davis: Have they been booed yet?
313122/02/2016, 19:53 - A Collins: By Yoyo?
313222/02/2016, 20:06 - K Mohan: I've heard the room is pretty hostile.
313322/02/2016, 20:26 - A Collins: Isn't that sort of what cc want though? To be able to reject it based on the membership rather than just cc?
313422/02/2016, 20:28 - K Mohan: Yeah agree.
313522/02/2016, 20:45 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
313622/02/2016, 21:17 - A Collins: Can someone quickly tell me what NHSE have proposed for transition 
3137I think: 1) cash pay protection until 2019 and 2) all senior trainees >ST3 to remain on banding model for duration of training? 
3138
3139But perhaps 2 expires in 2019 also?
314022/02/2016, 22:01 - J Malawana: Cash floor pay protection.
314122/02/2016, 22:01 - J Malawana: From a given date.
314222/02/2016, 22:03 - A Collins: No one staying on banding?
314322/02/2016, 22:18 - A Collins: Ah, still only til 2019
314422/02/2016, 22:20 - J Malawana: But that's just pay. The hours for that pay isn't still clear. The whole system is completely fucked
314522/02/2016, 22:20 - A Collins: Yep, I agree
314622/02/2016, 22:20 - A Collins: was just trying to answer a specific qn
314722/02/2016, 22:20 - J Malawana: The key now is to delay. Direct all questions to NHSE.
314822/02/2016, 22:21 - A Collins: NHSE just behave like they're all sharing a braincell and the chap who signed it out fucked off on holiday in about october 2014
314922/02/2016, 22:21 - J Malawana: Let them see how messed up they are without our help.
315022/02/2016, 22:21 - J Malawana: Make them worried as their incompetence will be being montiored.
315122/02/2016, 22:21 - J Malawana: We wait till the noise in the system grows and then offer again to have proper negs.
315222/02/2016, 22:24 - A Collins: Anyone else a bit glad ^he's^ on our side? ??
315322/02/2016, 22:37 - A Borbora: As I said before it's a high risk strategy. Hopefully will work. Other option is they just implement poorly and the only losers then are us. 
3154And they certainly aren't stupid. Too assume they are is very foolish. Maybe the ones they had negotiating last time round weren't the best but this time they had better people. Made fewer mistakes. We need to be cautious of believing our own rhetoric.
315522/02/2016, 22:45 - A Borbora: Poker. We don't blink and hope they do. Or something like that. 
3156Combined with the political stuff gives us the best chance I think.
315723/02/2016, 06:41 - K Mohan: I'm unclear what our other option/s are to the strategy outlined by Johann, Aaron.
3158
3159Maybe though we could transfer this to the listserver. Having just caught the end of this thread just now it appears to have become a policy/strategy discussion. Can we include everyone please?
316023/02/2016, 08:05 - A Borbora: There are none. I fully support it. Just saying to be conscious of the risks.
316123/02/2016, 08:49 - K Mohan: Thanks Aaron. I've moved convo to the listserver (and added a few other bits). :)
316223/02/2016, 10:16 - Z Greaves: Guys we totally missed it but yesterday was actually cat day in Japan!!
316323/02/2016, 10:16 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
316423/02/2016, 10:17 - J Malawana: Lol
316523/02/2016, 10:21 - A Collins: Amazing. But surely they like some sashimi?
316623/02/2016, 10:35 - J Malawana: By the way can I just say to everyone openly, I feel a lot better knowing how amazing exec members and wider JDC members have been over the last few days. Your messages have been awesome. I have told everyone that has asked to not get involved however much they want to as we should just let the parties concerned make all the fuss they want publicly. I am big enough and ugly enough to defend myself. There is a lot of scrutiny currently of what JDC members are doing and saying and whilst it's tempting to air our dirty laundry in public, I have refrained from doing that although there is a huge amount of questions being asked about JDC members behaviour given what everyone is now hearing. 
3167
3168Even at the LNC conference yesterday I got asked about JDC, it's a pity that this damaging episode will be the thing people are talking about. But the support for JDC and exec amongst the wider membership and beyond juniors is incredible. So just take heart from how much people are ready to fight for us if anything ever should be raised.
316923/02/2016, 11:11 - Z Greaves: Aww ?? ... glad your feeling supported #wegotyourback #jofanns
3170
3171Adam I don't have cat shape sashimi but there is this:
317223/02/2016, 11:11 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
317323/02/2016, 11:16 - A Collins: Very good! Clearly they're into it.
317423/02/2016, 14:23 - Z Greaves: Anyone else suffering it fallout from the reorganisation? Apparently the new system can't cope with sending different committees papers to different email accounts - so much for my beautiful e-filing!
317523/02/2016, 14:42 - A Yassaee: http://www.hsj.co.uk/7002668.article?WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Newsletter307&cm_ven=ExactTarget&cm_cat=HSJ+Daily+News+(S)&cm_pla=HSJ+Daily+News&cm_lm=arrash@hotmail.co.uk&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=HSJ_Daily-S_Newsletter_23022016&&
317623/02/2016, 14:43 - A Yassaee: http://www.hsj.co.uk/7002668.article?WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Newsletter307&cm_ven=ExactTarget&cm_cat=HSJ+Daily+News+(S)&cm_pla=HSJ+Daily+News&cm_lm=arrash@hotmail.co.uk&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=HSJ_Daily-S_Newsletter_23022016&&
317723/02/2016, 14:43 - H Carter: The BBC are reporting that too.
317823/02/2016, 15:05 - J Malawana: Disputes has met and has sorted out dates for IA and jr. The announcement will be out in next couple of hours.
317923/02/2016, 15:05 - D Rouse: What will be announced
318023/02/2016, 15:05 - J Malawana: Three sets of 48 hour strikes up till the local elections.
318123/02/2016, 15:05 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
318223/02/2016, 15:06 - J Malawana: Emergency care only.
318323/02/2016, 15:06 - D Rouse: Oh.
318423/02/2016, 15:06 - D Rouse: Ok cool
318523/02/2016, 15:07 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Sweet
318623/02/2016, 15:07 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Gonna be tiring
318723/02/2016, 15:07 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The marathon begins
318823/02/2016, 15:08 - J Malawana: It will be all timed as it has to be today as tomorrow there are loads of stuff coming out from the grassroots and bunch of other leaks from government as far as have heard. It also looks like the eu thing
318923/02/2016, 15:08 - J Malawana: Will take over massively
319023/02/2016, 15:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 'Materials' all good? They were excellent last time.
319123/02/2016, 15:08 - J Malawana: We have a slight shift in the materials to be more in line with our shift in messaging.
319223/02/2016, 15:09 - J Malawana: Please don't talk about this till the message goes out to JDC etc.
319323/02/2016, 15:12 - D Tooth: Thanks Johann
319423/02/2016, 15:35 - K Mohan: Nooooooooooo. Why has the JDC date changed?!?!? Aaaaaaarggghhhhhh.
319523/02/2016, 15:36 - C Castles: I've just seen that. Does anyone know why?
319623/02/2016, 15:38 - K Mohan: I cannot explain how annoying this is. I'm giving a talk on the Saturday in Germany and THEY HAVE MOVED THE VENUE so I could VC into JDC.
319723/02/2016, 15:39 - C Castles: I have work booked on the Friday, and a hotel booked Friday night. And I would have had flights booked if I'd been a bit more organised.
319823/02/2016, 15:40 - D Tooth: I'm on a training course
319923/02/2016, 15:40 - C Castles: Its only 3 weeks notice
320023/02/2016, 15:58 - M Redman: 6th April changeover day for 15000 drs
320123/02/2016, 15:58 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
320223/02/2016, 16:02 - K Mohan: Well that'll be disruptive...
320323/02/2016, 16:07 - L Boyle: The move of JDC date ??????????
320423/02/2016, 16:08 - K Mohan: Now that is the single best use of emojis ever. Totes.
320523/02/2016, 16:29 - B Roberts: Hi, everyone!
320623/02/2016, 16:29 - K Mohan: Hello
320723/02/2016, 16:30 - K Mohan: Bethan
320823/02/2016, 16:30 - B Roberts: I have escaped my 3G/4G/wifi/mobile signal wilderness. I was trapped in the surgery until 7:45pm last night.
320923/02/2016, 16:30 - K Mohan: (Wow writing like david is difficult to do as well as annoying to read!) :)
321023/02/2016, 16:30 - B Roberts: All this stuff about this group makes me sad. But yay to IA!
321123/02/2016, 16:31 - D Rouse: You trying to bait me kitty
321223/02/2016, 16:31 - B Roberts: And, shit, we forgot SASC...
321323/02/2016, 16:32 - A Collier The group doesn't include CC either but they've not flagged it.
321423/02/2016, 16:33 - B Roberts: Aha!
321523/02/2016, 16:33 - A Collier I was going to make a joke but have thought better of it.
321623/02/2016, 16:33 - K Mohan: I don't think we forgot anyone. I remember it being mentioned at the start of this whatsapp group that it was for jdc and msc exec members
321723/02/2016, 16:33 - K Mohan: els, mentioned it right at the beginning but thought it was fine.
321823/02/2016, 16:40 - A Collins: Yeah, I can't come to jdc in March now and I don't think I can screw work around any more I'm afraid. 
3219
3220Its incredibly disappointing that this has been moved late on and I feel like Luke's emoji.
322123/02/2016, 16:41 - A Collins: I think the question is as to why he/they were deliberately left out if MSC were in?
322223/02/2016, 16:41 - A Collins: Sure els is probably glad she doesn't have to put up with our chat, she knows what we're like
322323/02/2016, 16:42 - B Roberts: I think Els likes cats, though...
322423/02/2016, 16:42 - A Collins: ??
322523/02/2016, 16:49 - Y Gourtsouyannis: In middle of wrk. Just briefly. Whats the disappointment r.e dates?
322623/02/2016, 16:52 - A Collins: Date of jdc in March changed from sat to Friday without explanation.
322723/02/2016, 16:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Cool thanx
322823/02/2016, 16:56 - A Borbora: Adam this statement you made on JDC-L is inaccurate 
3229
3230"note that the decisions seem to have been made by the disputes Committee in line with a) trade union law b) the internal policy of the BMA c) the explanations from Mark at JDC so it's ideal that these are communicated ASAP."
3231
3232JDC was perfectly free to suggest dates to disputes that didn't clash with other Bma events but we didn't do so. 
3233I'm getting slightly hacked off that people are making definitive statements which aren't correct. Johann gave the reasons quite accurately and clearly so I don't see why further comment was required?
323423/02/2016, 17:21 - A Collins: Aaron
32351) The statement above is factually correct to the best of my ability. Trade Union Law gives authority, through the various delegations, to the DC to decide when and how we take IA. I think it was yourself who in fact so clearly explained that to the committee and to myself several times. 
3236
3237I believe, again from your, and also Dr Porter's explanations, that BMA policy coincides with trade union law, and that JDC could make recommendations, but is not required to.  Whilst JDC could have made recommendations, Dr Porter asked it not to, both in the specific, and in the more general sense. I refer you to his comments on list: "As such, and aside from the unavoidable legal issue of doing things properly as referenced below, it is best if the JDC meeting focuses on the strategy of whether and why you are in dispute, and what tools you will use to prosecute the dispute. Then the trade union tactics are put in place to support that strategy.
3238
3239Mindful of your decision that you want early and escalated industrial action in order to seek a ‘Dalton-plus’ contract, I have asked the policy secretariat to bring considered proposals early next week so as to get the statutory notices done"
3240
3241You will notice that he references the specific issue of clashing dates, but provides guidance on the topic in addition to that. 
3242
32432) I'm becoming increasingly concerned at your habit of taking to this group in order to contradict things I have written on a public forum. I do not know why you seek to keep such contractions private or secret, and it feels like an unsuccessful attempt to intimidate behind closed doors, which I hope it is not. Given that you were a major proponent of keeping committee business to the list servers, I find it odd that this is the second time in as many days that you seem to have deliberately brought committee business here and I wonder what your motivations are for that. 
3244
32453) I made the statement because increasingly the ability or will of exec, and in particular of Johann, to conduct committee business in a competent fashion is being questioned, and I wished to express my support, based on what I believe to be the facts, for the way in which he undertakes them. I do not have any political aspirations with in the BMA, in fact as many on here will know the chances of me being a functioning member next year are slim, so you may dismiss any suspicions of ulterior motive beyond promoting unity and corporate responsibility, and providing a supporting counter voice to the criticism where I do not believe that is is appropriate.
324623/02/2016, 17:48 - C Sheridan: Nice email regarding the IA dates process Zoe. Eminently sensible!
324723/02/2016, 17:48 - L J Davis: Donnas on here. And Tim cb.
324823/02/2016, 17:49 - J Malawana: It's because the ASiT national conference is on the Saturday and they has asked JDC to be present. Heidi Alexander and Bruce keogh are present. That along with the fact we had to have the last Saturday meeting and staff issues just made it a better option to move it. I am sorry about that.
324923/02/2016, 17:49 - Z Greaves: Thanks Chris ??
325023/02/2016, 17:50 - A Collins: Thanks Johann
325123/02/2016, 17:50 - A Collins: That's fair, especially re the staff
325223/02/2016, 17:50 - A Collins: They do work bloody hard!
325323/02/2016, 17:51 - A Yassaee: I dont know if this is a policy discussion but just thought I'd point out that the chosen government line was that the strikes are "completely unnecessary" which I thought was interesting.
325423/02/2016, 17:54 - C Sheridan: Thanks for the insight Johann I assumed it was something quite important to change at short notice. I think the pressure being on at the moment is making everything is a bit chaotic atm (or maybe just seem that way). Everyone is covering an immense amount of work
325523/02/2016, 17:54 - Z Greaves: I wonder if their definition of unnecessary comes from the same dictionary as their definition of consecutive?
325623/02/2016, 17:56 - A Collins: Lol
325723/02/2016, 17:56 - A Yassaee: Johann, does anywhere in our statement mention a willingness to negotiate the contract properly?
325823/02/2016, 17:56 - A Yassaee: I can't see it but wonder if you've said something elsewhere?
325923/02/2016, 18:00 - B Roberts: Lol @ Zoe!
326023/02/2016, 18:01 - L Boyle: I kinda shit the nest on listserver but criticising when the emails had in fact gone out, just not to the ppl of #aotn...??
3261I don't know why there is such a fuss on & off list about the dates & mode of the IA...did someone not ask why we weren't deciding ourselves at the mtg on Sat, to which Mark replied that it's up to Disputes, not JDC?
326223/02/2016, 18:01 - Z Greaves: Because on previous occasions we've made clear recommendations to disputes which have then been ratified - see exec list
326323/02/2016, 18:02 - L Boyle: I'm aware of that. But on this occasion we were directed by the CoC to leave it to them
326423/02/2016, 18:03 - B Roberts: I've just read David's e-mail on lanyards.
326523/02/2016, 18:03 - B Roberts: It
326623/02/2016, 18:03 - B Roberts: Is
326723/02/2016, 18:03 - B Roberts: Marvellous
326823/02/2016, 18:04 - J Malawana: I think a fairly dies in BMA house everytime the word lanyard is mentioned.
326923/02/2016, 18:05 - C Sheridan: Yes. Breakable psych approved lanyards please! I'm so proud of mine I wear it despite the strangulation risk mind you
327023/02/2016, 18:06 - M Redman: I wear my  3 break point one but then have massive badge attached to it which presumably could be used to poke my eye out so I lack consistency
327123/02/2016, 18:06 - A Collins: AYE, THAT'S A PROUD SCOTSMAN FAE YE ALL!
327223/02/2016, 18:06 - A Collins: (that's just how chris sounds, eh?)
327323/02/2016, 18:08 - C Sheridan: Is it as improbably big as the sticker you wore to exec Melody? Where are you getting these giant materials? They make em big in Yorkshire!
327423/02/2016, 18:08 - C Sheridan: Collins ah'll bottl' ye, ya daftie!
327523/02/2016, 18:09 - M Redman: I just need to get out of my system that I'm disappointed about disputes cmte choosing changeover. It's fine for me going into academic but it's gonna add unnecessary stress for FYdrs / 4monthers and there's already less elective stuff then to allow changeover.
3276
3277But as always ??#istandwithjohann?? and now I've vented on here I'll defend it nail and tooth lol
327823/02/2016, 18:10 - A Collins: :)))
327923/02/2016, 18:10 - M Redman: Lol Chris, we're a beautifully extravagant folk
328023/02/2016, 18:11 - C Sheridan: I assumed they were produced for the #möetmedics to affix to their boats...
328123/02/2016, 18:11 - J Malawana: I missed the handover thing.
328223/02/2016, 18:12 - K Mohan: MELODY - EMOJIS!!!!!
328323/02/2016, 18:12 - J Malawana: Will need to work that one out
328423/02/2016, 18:13 - K Mohan: Can we do it quickly. As that't the first IA right - South Thames are planning rallies etc.
328523/02/2016, 18:13 - L J Davis: Dear lord. I take an afternoon off for a funeral & you've all gone even more random...
328623/02/2016, 18:14 - L J Davis: Kitty ????????
3287Melody ????????????????????
328823/02/2016, 18:15 - K Mohan: whatevs. i have an app that removes emojis from certain people. you're on the list ljd.
328923/02/2016, 18:16 - L J Davis: You'll never take away my happy face... ??????
329023/02/2016, 18:16 - K Mohan: ok. i made that up. but i need that app!!
329123/02/2016, 18:16 - L J Davis: (That was Nathan Mabel & Rory sending you kisses...)
329223/02/2016, 18:17 - L J Davis: It's been a long day.
329323/02/2016, 18:21 - Z Greaves: Really sorry to be cantankerous, but mark porter has just said we are taking action that we are not expecting to produce capitulation - if that is truly the case we are simply pissing our members incomes away - that is the worst type of tokenism ... that needs to be retracted now! And I hope he doesn't speak for the rest of exec or you in saying that Johann - I am sure we have a better strategy than that but I really need to hear it - actually very cross!
329423/02/2016, 18:33 - K Mohan: personally i'd ignore mark.
329523/02/2016, 18:34 - Z Greaves: Remark has now been clarified thank you 
3296
3297??love to all??
329823/02/2016, 18:34 - K Mohan: has he just clarified it though, zoe? i'm only half following as still at work
329923/02/2016, 18:35 - A Collins: He has yeah
330023/02/2016, 19:03 - K Mohan: ok. back to the random questions. My niece decided yesterday that she likes pressing random keys on my laptop. she opened microsoft outlook on my mac. i don't have it on my mac so it's opened a box asking me to enter a product key which i cannot remove. any ideas how to remove it?
330123/02/2016, 19:03 - K Mohan: it's well annoying. i may have to sell her to buy another mac
330223/02/2016, 19:03 - A Collins: Show me?
330323/02/2016, 19:03 - K Mohan: erm?
330423/02/2016, 19:03 - A Collins: (not the child I'm not interested, the mac)
330523/02/2016, 19:03 - A Collins: As in show me a screen shot/photo
330623/02/2016, 19:04 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
330723/02/2016, 19:04 - K Mohan: i just need to remove this window. pressing quit doesn't quit.
330823/02/2016, 19:04 - A Collins: Do you use any office product keys?
330923/02/2016, 19:05 - A Collins: *do you use any office products
331023/02/2016, 19:05 - K Mohan: yes - word/excel etc
331123/02/2016, 19:05 - A Collins: You can force close that using Shift+Apple+Q
331223/02/2016, 19:05 - A Collins: Which might work
331323/02/2016, 19:06 - A Collins: Or you can click the "view files for free"  bit at the bottom which should make it go away so you can close outlook
331423/02/2016, 19:06 - K Mohan: aha - i'll try both of those when i'm not procrastinating in the middle of writing national policy (!)
331523/02/2016, 19:08 - L J Davis: Apple +shift+esp or apple button top left and force quit on drop down menu.
331623/02/2016, 19:08 - A Collins: Killing off outlook should be trivial anyway, but I can't recall how to open the MacOS task manager!
331723/02/2016, 19:08 - A Collins: That's the one.
331823/02/2016, 19:08 - A Collins: LJD to the rescue!
331923/02/2016, 19:09 - L J Davis: Launchpad, (like a rocket), then folder called utilities then activity monitor.
332023/02/2016, 19:10 - L J Davis: Then when loaded processes tab, then you can find the programme that's not working and do 'kill process', I think.
332123/02/2016, 19:10 - L J Davis: Either should work
332223/02/2016, 19:11 - L J Davis: ??
332323/02/2016, 19:11 - A Collins: Ok can we get LJD  Mac badge for her Scout uniform please? :D
332423/02/2016, 19:11 - A Collins: (Johann is typing. Presumably photography tips since we've mentioned Macs...)
332523/02/2016, 19:11 - L J Davis: Half eaten Apple on it?
332623/02/2016, 19:12 - J Malawana: By the way the main thing I was looking at with the dates was maximal impact on the prime minister. Week before budget and week before local elections. Can't do it on day as looks too specific. But the narrative is about the loss of effective management of the country. Force the government to step in.
332723/02/2016, 19:13 - L J Davis: Yes. Can we explain that to JDC?
332823/02/2016, 19:13 - L J Davis: (Aka can you explain that to JDC?)
332923/02/2016, 19:14 - J Malawana: I did email JDC with that list of other activities thing and the summary but no one actually responded.
333023/02/2016, 19:14 - J Malawana: Ok will do.
333123/02/2016, 19:14 - L J Davis: IS THAT POLICY BEING DISCUSSED?!??
333223/02/2016, 19:14 - L J Davis: ??????
333323/02/2016, 19:14 - L J Davis: Onto the listserver with you!
333423/02/2016, 19:15 - L J Davis: That's a minute on the listserver for every year of your age.
333523/02/2016, 19:16 - L J Davis: Naughty Johann.
333623/02/2016, 19:16 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
333723/02/2016, 19:16 - A Collins: (sorry I'm easily amused, carry on)
333823/02/2016, 19:17 - L J Davis: She does look very happy, doesn't she?
333923/02/2016, 19:18 - A Collins: For a change.
334023/02/2016, 19:19 - D Tooth: Do we have details for negs meeting? Just going trough emails, apologies if there X
334123/02/2016, 19:20 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
334223/02/2016, 19:20 - A Collins: We do Donna, hang on
334323/02/2016, 19:21 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
334423/02/2016, 19:25 - J Malawana: Ok all done on the listserver. I am going home. Am sure by the time I get home there will be another crisis :-)
334523/02/2016, 19:55 - D Tooth: thanks adam, putting little one to bed
334623/02/2016, 19:55 - D Tooth: well done Johann
334723/02/2016, 20:04 - A Collins: LJ and Amjad we wondered if you wanted to join us for negs Committee if you're free?
334823/02/2016, 20:23 - D Rouse: Lol. Not me then
334923/02/2016, 20:23 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
335023/02/2016, 20:26 - A Collins: Lol, dat face. You can come play if you wish
335123/02/2016, 20:27 - C Castles: please stop putting pictures of your cat on my phone
335223/02/2016, 20:30 - C Castles: i dont like cats
335323/02/2016, 20:30 - C Castles: they keep crapping in my garden
335423/02/2016, 20:30 - A Collins: I like the cat.
335523/02/2016, 21:23 - A Collins: Er, my Scopia died. :s
335623/02/2016, 21:24 - C Castles: we're all still here
335723/02/2016, 21:24 - C Castles: waiting for you
335823/02/2016, 21:25 - L J Davis: I thought you meant the cat died!!!
335923/02/2016, 21:25 - A Collins: Our wifi seems to have had a hiccup...
336023/02/2016, 21:47 - M Redman: Hold on you're having a mtg now?
336123/02/2016, 21:47 - M Redman: Is amjad on negs?
336223/02/2016, 21:47 - M Redman: Cos he just asked if there was a mtg and I said no
336323/02/2016, 21:47 - A Collins: Not officially I don't think those were just the non elected people that Aaron though usually comes
336423/02/2016, 21:49 - B Roberts: My Scopia is dodgy.
336523/02/2016, 22:15 - A Borbora: Yeah just a negs mtg
336623/02/2016, 22:15 - A Borbora: I'll fill Amjad and Yanis in
336723/02/2016, 22:25 - Z Greaves: What there's a meeting where was this announced? What?
336823/02/2016, 22:25 - Z Greaves: Oh just negs never mind - enjoy
336923/02/2016, 22:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Damn aaron so sorry. On way home frm out. Had UTTERLY forgotten meeting on!!!!!!!!!
337023/02/2016, 22:35 - B Roberts: Thought you might have had your hands full with Ebola, Yannis.
337123/02/2016, 22:36 - A Borbora: That's ok Yannis I'll catch you and Amjad up
337223/02/2016, 22:36 - A Borbora: Plus minutes will be on listerserver ASAP
337323/02/2016, 22:52 - D Rouse: Aaron your on radio5
337423/02/2016, 22:59 - K Mohan: Nope, Yannis just has a life. :)
337523/02/2016, 23:08 - M Redman: Everyone in Yorkshire going nuts over Chris day
337623/02/2016, 23:09 - B Roberts: I missed the meeting where that case was discussed so I'm a bit out the loop.
337723/02/2016, 23:09 - M Redman: frustrated that bma not sharing more info bc they're worried that media will use it to rip into contract dispute and attack johann
337823/02/2016, 23:15 - D Rouse: As far as I am aware. The reason the BMA are not sharing more info is this is a ongoing legal case currently in the courts and so a lot of information is legally privileged. 
3379
3380This is reflected in the fact that when members of the FBGoD directly ask Chris questions he doesn't answer them
338123/02/2016, 23:41 - M Redman: That's more or less what I've said but they still want basic announcement saying that or something
338223/02/2016, 23:42 - C Castles: anyone know what this supposed cover up is, that the BBC are going to report on shortly?
338323/02/2016, 23:43 - D Rouse: What cover up
338423/02/2016, 23:43 - D Tooth: Yes not sure.
338523/02/2016, 23:43 - C Castles: whatever ben dean is being all mysterious about on the facebook page
338623/02/2016, 23:43 - C Castles: no idea what he's on about, but he's trying to make it sound intriguing
338723/02/2016, 23:44 - C Castles: "May I ask everyone to have a look at the BBC website tomorrow morning and listen to the Today Programme on Radio 4 - there may be a rather interesting story concerning a cover up involving DH, NHS England and Jeremy Hunt. Keep your eyes peeled"
338823/02/2016, 23:44 - D Tooth: I'm now gonna stay up til midnight despite being exhausted... As evidenced by my incorrect posting to jdc exec instead of GP trainees exec! Apologies all for that
338923/02/2016, 23:44 - C Castles: is there anything to it, or is he just trying to make some rubbish sound exciting?
339024/02/2016, 00:31 - C Castles: I assume Johann's email is referring to the same thing
339124/02/2016, 07:04 - L J Davis: Baited breath here in bristol...
339224/02/2016, 07:04 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
339324/02/2016, 07:05 - K Mohan: 7.20
339424/02/2016, 07:31 - D Rouse: Is that it
339524/02/2016, 07:31 - K Mohan: I didn't listen so no idea?
339624/02/2016, 07:31 - D Rouse: Christ don't worry anyone come out of your air raid shelters
339724/02/2016, 07:31 - D Rouse: Put the Moët back on ice we ain't winning just yet
339824/02/2016, 07:35 - K Mohan: I presumed you listened to it which I didn't. Could you enlighten me, David?
339924/02/2016, 07:36 - K Mohan: *presume
340024/02/2016, 07:36 - D Rouse: Haha no I didn't listen just going off the posting lol
340124/02/2016, 07:37 - K Mohan: I have to admit I find your post difficult. Our grassroots are trying to help us, let's not mock them.
340224/02/2016, 07:38 - K Mohan: Although I thjnk there may be other news stories in the offing that Johann was referring to.
340324/02/2016, 07:38 - D Rouse: Christ almighty lighten up kitty. I haven't listened to it as I'm working. No idea who has written it or presented it orrrr anything just from the short blurb it doesn't look like its the killer move
340424/02/2016, 07:39 - D Rouse: Let's smile because if we don't
340524/02/2016, 07:39 - D Rouse: In going to end up asking Andrew for citalopram
340624/02/2016, 07:39 - H Carter: There seems to be a dichotomy in the government's position. I may be reading into this too much. However, the DH have changed their line from 'get back around the table' to 'we urge junior doctors to look at the detail' - expected. However, the PM's spokesperson has said the action is 'regretable' but that she's sure further discussions would continue.
340724/02/2016, 07:40 - D Rouse: Well that's literally a contradiction in terms there Harrison
340824/02/2016, 07:41 - K Mohan: I don't agree. I think don't think you're funny on this instance just mildly insulting, David.
340924/02/2016, 07:41 - K Mohan: Harry, didn't they start this line a couple of days ago.
341024/02/2016, 07:42 - D Rouse: Well apologies if this has offended you kitty.
341124/02/2016, 07:42 - K Mohan: I've read the end of your post, Harry. See what you mean.
341224/02/2016, 07:43 - K Mohan: Maybe the PM office getting it wrong? Or trying to save face at this time?
341324/02/2016, 07:45 - A Collins: Where are the posts people are talking about?
341424/02/2016, 07:45 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
341524/02/2016, 07:45 - D Rouse: Huh see 0720
341624/02/2016, 07:46 - A Collins: Oh I see just that. I though there was more like from glass roots or something
341724/02/2016, 07:46 - D Rouse: No
341824/02/2016, 08:08 - A Collier Well it's a grass roots doctor that's given the emails to the BBC
341924/02/2016, 08:10 - L J Davis: Erm basically, jh saw the ?keogh? paper in advance of publication but DH tried to cover it up. 
3420I didn't know ministers weren't meant to quote figures which weren't publicly available.
342124/02/2016, 08:12 - A Collier It's very poor research practice and has a whiff of scandal about it and makes the authors of the paper appear less than "independent"
342224/02/2016, 08:12 - L J Davis: Tbh, I'd always assumed they were privy to lots of 'secret' info
342324/02/2016, 08:12 - L J Davis: It was the keogh paper, wasn't it?
342424/02/2016, 08:13 - L J Davis: I agree, Andrew, but I think the 11,000 figure has overtaken :(
342524/02/2016, 08:14 - A Collier Yes I understand it relates to the 'Freemantle' paper on which Keogh is the ?third/fourth? author
342624/02/2016, 08:15 - L J Davis: I think it's helpful in chipping away at the edges, but I'm not sure it's a game changer. As tesco like to say, every little helps.
342724/02/2016, 08:46 - J Malawana: It's definitely helpful. Apparently hunt has been on the phone to r4 this morning screaming at them. So I guess it is having an impact :-)
342824/02/2016, 08:46 - A Collins: Ah, well good on grass roots,  well played!
342924/02/2016, 08:47 - J Malawana: He is about to get hit again. I would watch pmqs today. No confirmation yet but keep an eye on it.
343024/02/2016, 08:47 - J Malawana: The MeetTheDrs petition is "being handed in" today
343124/02/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: Channel 4 and BBC are covering it we think.
343224/02/2016, 09:01 - B Roberts: I'm glad they've finally realised this is news but where the hell have they been?!
343324/02/2016, 09:09 - J Malawana: I spend significant amount of time briefing journalists including the BBC Health team. They just have competing priorities. Editorially it's clear the BBC is aware of the power of the government.
343424/02/2016, 09:10 - J Malawana: Some stories are better coming not from the BMA. It's almost easier for the BBC to cover them
343524/02/2016, 09:15 - B Roberts: Nice work, Johann! Still might threaten not to renew my TV licence and they still haven't responded to my complaint!
343624/02/2016, 09:37 - A Collins: Amazing
343724/02/2016, 09:47 - Z Greaves: Kitty are you at phmrs today?
343824/02/2016, 09:57 - L J Davis: I like the idea of jh screaming at radio 4. ??
3439
3440Just goes to show an omni shambles in action...
344124/02/2016, 10:00 - K Mohan: No. I'm at the BMA though.
344224/02/2016, 10:01 - K Mohan: I boycott PHMRS*. I'm in the Harvey room. 
3443
3444*not really.
344524/02/2016, 10:26 - J Malawana: Just had the head undergrad at imperial on the phone complaining about IA as it clashes with finals. The trusts refuse to cancel elective work and instead refuse consultants leave to examine. He had written to mark and Mark asked me to deal with it. I think he wanted me to face the fire :-). Luckily the head of undergrad is an old boss and so whilst not exactly supportive (it is imperial) he said he admired our tenacity. That's praise indeed from his role.
344624/02/2016, 10:26 - J Malawana: So we are going to have a problem at ucl, hyms and imperial.
344724/02/2016, 11:10 - A Yassaee: If we are alumni do you want us to speak to their student union presidents?
344824/02/2016, 11:10 - B Roberts: I don't understand. How are they refusing to cancel elective work and then make it your problem?
344924/02/2016, 11:10 - A Yassaee: Or do we not anticipate this would be a problem - Harry and Charlie what do you think?
345024/02/2016, 11:33 - A Collins: Perhaps the senior regs could offer to examine? ??
345124/02/2016, 11:37 - J Malawana: They want cct holders. I suggested that
345224/02/2016, 11:38 - J Malawana: Yes Arrash talk to the presidents.
345324/02/2016, 11:38 - K Mohan: Surely Tom can just take A/L and do ALL THE WORK. :)
345424/02/2016, 11:39 - A Collins: Ok, serious suggestion, could those on period of grace at least offer to contribute as a show of good faith? (it should be noted I know nothing about what I'm suggesting just thinking our loud)
345524/02/2016, 11:56 - K Mohan: PoG holders are in the months post CCT by definition. (Just to say we should prob move this to the list server if we're delving into the detail of this).
345624/02/2016, 11:57 - A Borbora: There's a thread on JDC-L 
3457Might as well use it.
345824/02/2016, 12:11 - A Collier The outrage about the moving of the next JDC meeting is doing my head in. Some folk look for offence and outrage where none exists (and I know this verges on policy so I've a sanitised version on the listserver too)
345924/02/2016, 12:42 - M Redman: Hyms don't care. I was TCing into mtg with most of senior staff yest when they found out and they don't think it'll affect them too much
346024/02/2016, 12:42 - J Malawana: I hope everyone is enjoying this mornings show. There was no orchestration obviously but it's nice to see things accidentally line up so well :-)
346124/02/2016, 12:44 - H Carter: What show?
346224/02/2016, 12:44 - J Malawana: Andrew thanks for saying that. We will keep getting on with our job whilst those that want to continue to focus on other issues do so. Our members want us to focus on that and when and if anyone ever has the courage to actually come out and say something, I am almost certain the membership will help them. Perhaps not how they want to be helped though...
346324/02/2016, 12:45 - H Carter: Arrash I have just seen this. I can talk to people.
346424/02/2016, 12:45 - H Carter: If that's helpful.
346524/02/2016, 12:45 - J Malawana: Harry are you not watching what's going on? BBC FOIs story, Meetthedrs and then pmqs.
346624/02/2016, 12:46 - A Borbora: Getting the PM involved didn't end so well for the miners. Guess we haven't got many other options
346724/02/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: Hunt looks flustered and so does the PM. Let's see what they do. This may just force them back to the negotiating table. But let's wait and see.
346824/02/2016, 12:46 - H Carter: I've just presented some work. So no. Have seen the FOIs. Is Corbyn going to focus on the EU or have we persuaded them to tall about us?
346924/02/2016, 12:47 - J Malawana: He did all the questions on the NHS and focussed on juniors.
347024/02/2016, 12:47 - H Carter: * talk?
347124/02/2016, 12:47 - H Carter: Oh. Excellent (I think)
347224/02/2016, 12:50 - A Borbora: Johann please could you explain what you meant by your message of 1244?
347324/02/2016, 12:55 - B Roberts: I still want to know how you came to find out about JH screaming at R4!
347424/02/2016, 12:56 - A Collins: Is there a recording? I hope there's a recording
347524/02/2016, 12:59 - J Malawana: Aaron I believe that the poisonous atmosphere of JDC currently is based on individuals trying to promote their personal agendas rather than what is in the best interests of junior doctors. I am happy to be corrected but I think the use of this groups existence alone and the fact someone from this group is helping promote a sense of suspicion in JDC against exec is incredibly damaging and incredibly unhelpful. I am sad that rather than focussing on the work we are trying to do, JDC members seem to want to just attack me or exec but don't want to come out and just have a vote of no confidence which is the method to do this rather than undermine the committee.
347624/02/2016, 13:17 - A Yassaee: http://www.hsj.co.uk/7002685.article?WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=Newsletter307&cm_ven=ExactTarget&cm_cat=HSJ+Daily+News+(S)&cm_pla=HSJ+Daily+News&cm_lm=arrash@hotmail.co.uk&WT.tsrc=email&WT.mc_id=HSJ_Daily-S_Newsletter_24022016&&
3477
3478This headline perked my lunchtime slightly
347924/02/2016, 13:19 - A Collins: Lol, they're a shower.
348024/02/2016, 13:27 - Z Greaves: No kidding
348124/02/2016, 13:34 - A Borbora: Thanks! Agree this is an issue that we need to think about. Hopefully we can get these issues sorted and get back to discussions on strategy going forwards. 
3482HSJ article is unusually helpful from them!!
348324/02/2016, 13:36 - K Mohan: do you have the full text, aaron
348424/02/2016, 13:39 - J Malawana: I am almost certain we will need to introduce a code of conduct in JDC. Relying on people resigning on points of honour or relying on open votes of no confidence to clear issues seems to no longer be the essence of the committee. Since we have a culture of a thousand cuts and that is damaging to us being able to focus on the work, I have talked to the chief exec of the BMA and I am going to ask for the code of conduct document to be circulated for consideration.
348524/02/2016, 13:42 - K Mohan: good idea - i'm sick to death of going to meetings and having people saying "ooh i heard idc is having another internal meltdown" - i've been told that at internal and external meetings before . it's unhelpful and undermines our action.
348624/02/2016, 13:42 - K Mohan: *jdc not idc
348724/02/2016, 13:46 - J Malawana: Yep. Have had that all week. What's wrong with JDC. Why if the whole profession is backing what the committee is doing can't members of the committee. It's a sad indictment on the culture of the committee.
348824/02/2016, 13:47 - L J Davis: :(
348924/02/2016, 13:50 - A Collier Speaking plainly, the multiple internal rifts, battles, leaking and cliques can be tracked back to a small handful of people. The committee culture report didn't really address the core issue that a small group of people lie at the heart of the disfunction. I should add that none of the people I refer to are currently members of exec.
349024/02/2016, 13:50 - A Borbora: Good idea. If it's ok I'll start a thread on exec listserver on this topic?
349124/02/2016, 13:50 - A Borbora: Sadly not kitty, just the summary johann posted
349224/02/2016, 13:50 - J Malawana: Thanks Aaron. I will do that once I have the documentation.
349324/02/2016, 13:50 - A Borbora: Ok I'll hold off
349424/02/2016, 13:54 - A Collier However I fear that the attitude of "your with us or against us" has the potential to stifle legitimate critiquing of our decisions and the processes used to make them.
3495
3496Mistrust prevented Kitty and I making effective us of our officer team we mustn't allow that to happen to the current officers/exec/JDC
349724/02/2016, 13:57 - T Crocker-Buque: This is exactly why I stepped down, and in fact away, rather than up after my experience as Deputy Chair last year. It has been going on for some time and we have not found an effective way of dealing with it.
349824/02/2016, 13:59 - A Borbora: That's very sad, Tim, and the JDC is a poorer place for it.
349924/02/2016, 14:03 - J Malawana: That's fair comment Andrew.
350024/02/2016, 14:04 - J Malawana: It's how we make that about robust questioning in a collegiate manner like you and kitty often do to me, and what I am starting to pick up on.
350124/02/2016, 14:05 - J Malawana: I remember robust questioning is always been a JDC thing. I remember being roasted for years by Farren and Alan and many JDC members. Really holding my feet to the fire with mtas and how to solve those issues.
350224/02/2016, 14:05 - J Malawana: But this culture is very different.
350324/02/2016, 14:06 - J Malawana: And yet we stayed friends. Ram and I used to argue till 2-3 in the morning. Often properly angry at each other. Same with Thornley. But this is very different.
350424/02/2016, 14:07 - A Collier I completely agree with you Johann. Over the past few months (in fact possibly over the last few years) I've seen some of the decisions made and view points expressed attacked by some members of JDC just because of who is saying them.
350524/02/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: Anyway. It's interesting to reflect.
350624/02/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: Will circulate the code of conduct document and we can talk about it.
350724/02/2016, 14:08 - J Malawana: LJD and David are drawing together a plan for the review. We will ensure there is externality or organisational history or something to make it robust.
350824/02/2016, 14:11 - T Crocker-Buque: The previous committee culture report had no buy-in from secretariat which made it virtually impossible to implement any of the recommended changes. It will be important that that does not happen again, up to the most senior levels of the policy directorate.
350924/02/2016, 14:13 - J Malawana: Ok good to know.
351024/02/2016, 14:19 - K Mohan: Peter Dangerfield just said that someone's head needed to be smashed against a brick wall. I actually LOLed.
351124/02/2016, 14:32 - Z Greaves: The last few days have all felt like a collective banging of heads together/against walls
351224/02/2016, 14:34 - K Mohan: haha. he was talking about someone specific in europe but i've never seen him very annoyed before. he then got up - winked at me - said very loudly 'see you soon, kitty' and left. mid=meeting.
351324/02/2016, 14:50 - M Redman: That's how Dangerfield rolls. Such a babe.
351424/02/2016, 15:23 - L J Davis: ??dangermouse
351524/02/2016, 15:30 - A Sami: 355 messages later, such a depressing read.
3516
3517I am planning to write an email to the list server soon. 
3518
3519We are the leaders of the profession.
352024/02/2016, 20:27 - D Tooth: Now to read all the emails! Hope you've all had good days
352125/02/2016, 04:26 - M Redman: Wow. CASS report. Just wow. I think this will be really useful in inspiring members to action and lobbying 
3522
3523What authority does it have on its own though?
352425/02/2016, 06:45 - J Malawana: None. There is a junio doctor embedded in Cass that has been working with me to try and make the academics come out to say this is not acceptable.
352525/02/2016, 06:46 - J Malawana: The report was part of a narrative setting exercise to help the Pac establish bad the situation was getting.
352625/02/2016, 06:47 - J Malawana: But it's pretty damning.
352725/02/2016, 06:50 - J Malawana: What we need to build is a underlying body of support that suggests the mishandling narrative comes from a lack of competence. Then you are able to speak authorotively and convince the media that the government are simply out of their depth and the BMA are core to finding solutions.
352825/02/2016, 06:51 - J Malawana: The Don Berwick thing was just lucky. Again I have a junior that is in his office. Despite talking a lot to them I didn't think he would come out and say anything as useful as that.
352925/02/2016, 07:12 - A Borbora: Could we move this to LS? It's pretty critical stuff so all should be able to access and make use of it.
353025/02/2016, 07:12 - M Redman: hmmm okay... Shame it's not got more weight on its own but as a piece it's great. if all the #Jofann plants coming into line then it! Thanks for explaining. But I'm concerned that you can only have had max 3h sleep!
353125/02/2016, 07:14 - E McCourt: Half man half caffeine
353225/02/2016, 07:15 - M Redman: ELLEN??????????????
353325/02/2016, 07:15 - E McCourt: PS I'm back and WOWZA exec I have a lot to read... I need an Amjad-summary...
353425/02/2016, 07:22 - Z Greaves: Yay your back how was DRC?
353525/02/2016, 07:25 - E McCourt: Very.very.hot. Parlez at lot of French. Taught some good trauma skills. All good.
353625/02/2016, 07:28 - D Rouse: Ellen even Amjad couldn't summarise it. Free to talk today?
353725/02/2016, 07:29 - E McCourt: The nurses there had been on strike for 3 weeks. They loved that we were striking and were angry at our government for what they were doing to us - almost comical from 4th poorest country in the world...
353825/02/2016, 07:30 - D Rouse: The nurses in hull have been on strike for 3 weeks :-P
353925/02/2016, 07:30 - K Mohan: Summary:
3540
35411. Let's crack on and bring this contract down. 
3542
3543The End. 
3544
3545*Takes a bow.*
354625/02/2016, 07:30 - D Rouse: Lol.
354725/02/2016, 07:31 - E McCourt: *round of applause* primarily at use of 'crack on'
354825/02/2016, 07:31 - D Rouse: Come on you had a little giggle
354925/02/2016, 07:31 - B Roberts: Ellen! We've missed you!
355025/02/2016, 07:32 - D Rouse: Ellen to go back to the question you free to talk today
355125/02/2016, 07:32 - K Mohan: I may put my summary on the listserver. Or frame it and send it to all of us or something... Or tattoo it on all our eye-balls or something.
355225/02/2016, 07:32 - E McCourt: Possibly in the middle of the day. I will call.
355325/02/2016, 07:33 - D Rouse: Ok X
355425/02/2016, 07:33 - E McCourt: Off to play at the Academy this morning. I shall share Kitty's summary with them.
355525/02/2016, 07:37 - K Mohan: #fame
355625/02/2016, 09:04 - D Rouse: Cool. Need to catch up sometime soo
355725/02/2016, 09:04 - D Rouse: Soon
355825/02/2016, 18:49 - A Sami: Hello everyone. 
3559
3560I am about to send an email now to JDC listserver.
3561
3562Please read it when you are comfortable and warm. 
3563
3564Many thanks
3565
3566Amjad
356725/02/2016, 19:03 - D Tooth: That might be a while amjad! It's bloody freezing in my house! Roll on Spring
356825/02/2016, 19:04 - A Sami: Spring time ??
356925/02/2016, 19:04 - C Castles: I'm warm, but uncomfortable, but I read it anyway
357025/02/2016, 19:04 - K Mohan: I've just been asked to do an interview with "French feminist street press". I might avoid telling that press office about that.
357125/02/2016, 19:04 - K Mohan: Until I've done the interview...
357225/02/2016, 19:06 - K Mohan: Thanks for your email Amjad. I've read it too.
357325/02/2016, 19:11 - L J Davis: You better Conan?
357425/02/2016, 19:12 - B Roberts: What a lovely e-mail, Amjad.
357525/02/2016, 19:13 - C Castles: Getting there lucy jane, thank you
357625/02/2016, 19:14 - L J Davis: Sounded all quite scary. Pleased you're feeling better :)
357725/02/2016, 19:16 - A Sami: Thanks, Bethan, Kitty and Conna.
3578
3579Good to know that you are a little bit better, Connan. I hope you get back 100% soon.
358025/02/2016, 19:17 - A Sami: LJD, got some dark chocolate here. How do you prefer yours?
358125/02/2016, 19:20 - A Collins: Read, inwardly digested, appreciated. Nice email and well toned and timed Amjad :)
358225/02/2016, 19:46 - L J Davis: Amjad I like almost all chocolate except ginger. Or chilli. ??
358325/02/2016, 20:21 - A Sami: Thanks, Adam.
3584
3585LJD, I agree. Ginger and Chilli chocolate is not my preference. 
3586
3587I am not into milk chocolate apart from Ritter's Sport!
358825/02/2016, 21:09 - M Redman: Guyz quick q ...
358925/02/2016, 21:10 - Z Greaves: Dark chocolate with sea salt!
359025/02/2016, 21:10 - A Collins: Yes.
359125/02/2016, 21:10 - M Redman: If on annual leave, can you be an official picketed? I can't find any guidance on it.
3592
3593My understanding was you could be picket visitor but not official picketer...
3594
3595Please can someone advise?!
359625/02/2016, 21:14 - A Sami: If official, and they dock theie pay, I would imagine they should have the annual leave back.
3597
3598I doubt they will do it in practice. I mean, I have not seen them going arounf the pickets writing names down. It is done at the department
359925/02/2016, 21:14 - A Sami: Dark chocolate with sea salt?! Who would have thought! I need to try that one
360025/02/2016, 22:36 - A Collins: Salted caramel, Salted chocolate. Both great.
360125/02/2016, 22:46 - Z Greaves: It will blow your mind. Guaranteed.
360225/02/2016, 22:54 - A Sami: Any specific brand?
360326/02/2016, 07:25 - L J Davis: I tell you what is wrong; chocolate with pink peppercorns. That's nasty.
360426/02/2016, 07:26 - L J Davis: I think I've had salted. It was ok.
360526/02/2016, 07:28 - L J Davis: But my favourite is Gilbert's rose & violet creams. (Made in bristol!). Bloody a-maz-ing. 
3606Closely followed by anything with nuts in. (Except marzipan, which is just ok).
360726/02/2016, 07:36 - Z Greaves: Lindt is pretty good - pink peppercorns sounds kind of intriguing lol
360826/02/2016, 07:37 - L J Davis: I gave up and bunged it in a chilli. That worked quite well.
360926/02/2016, 07:43 - A Collins: Lindt is definitely my go to. Hotel chocolat also good :)
361026/02/2016, 07:43 - B Roberts: Controversial opinion coming up:-
361126/02/2016, 07:44 - B Roberts: I like bog standard Dairy Milk, what's wrong with that?
361226/02/2016, 07:45 - A Collins: I just can't stand the flower oils though :( they just make me think I've walked into an old people's home!!
361326/02/2016, 07:46 - B Roberts: Even more controversial view:-
361426/02/2016, 07:46 - B Roberts: I prefer crisps to chocolate...
361526/02/2016, 07:46 - M Redman: What flavour Bethan?
361626/02/2016, 07:47 - B Roberts: Ready salted.
361726/02/2016, 07:48 - B Roberts: There's also a place in my heart for the black pepper Kettle Chips.
361826/02/2016, 07:48 - L J Davis: Can't eat crisps. Potato makes me swell up ??????
361926/02/2016, 07:48 - B Roberts: And I've rediscovered Skips this week although I think they're technically a "maize snack" rather than crisps.
362026/02/2016, 07:49 - B Roberts: LJ-D, are you allergic to potatoes?
362126/02/2016, 07:49 - M Redman: does my impression of an Australian make you swell up?
3622
3623G'day matey potatey??
362426/02/2016, 07:52 - D Tooth: In all with the controversy. Cadburys as im a brummie. And definitely crisps. Worcester sauce French fries
362526/02/2016, 07:54 - B Roberts: A move from leftfield by Dr Tooth!
362626/02/2016, 07:57 - A Collins: Salt and vinegar crisps *and* dairy milk. *mic drop*??
362726/02/2016, 08:06 - B Roberts: Collins, I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. Don't worry, you are among friends.
362826/02/2016, 08:06 - M Redman: Tyrells salt and cider vinegar
362926/02/2016, 08:21 - Z Greaves: Yes melody - they've got to be front runners
363026/02/2016, 08:24 - Z Greaves: Tho personal fave and I don't know if they still do them but the sensations Monterey Chilli and goats cheese are incredible
363126/02/2016, 08:31 - Z Greaves: Is everyone else getting this (or variation of) on their fb feed every single morning?
363226/02/2016, 08:31 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
363326/02/2016, 08:47 - D Rouse: Is it though
363426/02/2016, 08:47 - D Rouse: Is anywhere in the uk
363526/02/2016, 08:48 - D Rouse: You see putting pictures of mountains doesn't sell it to me
363626/02/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: Everytime divas name comes up I assume I am going to get a cat picture
363726/02/2016, 08:48 - D Rouse: I want a vibrant and large world city which has great connections and interesting places to visit and eat and do stuff.
363826/02/2016, 08:48 - M Redman: David! You're a Yorkshire man. You should love scenic views.
363926/02/2016, 08:49 - D Rouse: Urgh melody I moved to London
364026/02/2016, 08:49 - M Redman: ??
364126/02/2016, 08:49 - D Rouse: Send me a post card ya know I'm going to sushi samba
364226/02/2016, 08:49 - D Rouse: I like the country I'm a country boy but. 
3643
3644I now like it to visit and not live in
364526/02/2016, 08:52 - D Rouse: For johann
364626/02/2016, 08:52 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
364726/02/2016, 08:53 - B Roberts: Cuuuuuuute!
364826/02/2016, 08:54 - M Redman: Does your cat have cat asthma from the smog #wouldnthappeninyorkshire
364926/02/2016, 08:59 - B Roberts: His cat is white in Yorkshire, Melody!
365026/02/2016, 09:00 - A Collins: I don't get the NES photos... But I was in the meetings where they decided that photos of mountains were better than any improvement to training.
365126/02/2016, 09:02 - Z Greaves: They're right - it's a different mountain picture each day - they should publish a calendar
365226/02/2016, 09:11 - A Collins: I suggested that not being a colossal shower of shite might help them, but they preferred the mountains.
365326/02/2016, 10:36 - D Rouse: Hahah
365426/02/2016, 10:41 - L Boyle: ??????
365526/02/2016, 10:47 - L J Davis: I'm (seemingly) allergic to potatoes. It makes me very sad. I love potato. I'm hoping I'll grow out of it ??
365626/02/2016, 10:48 - L J Davis: Aren't you from sheffield, david? That's not the country.
365726/02/2016, 10:53 - B Roberts: Welsh recruitment relies on pictures of mountains and surfing in the Gower.
365826/02/2016, 10:54 - B Roberts: L-JD, that's the saddest allergy I've ever heard of!
365926/02/2016, 11:00 - L J Davis: I know! In both the traditional (??) and modern (bit pathetic) meanings.
3660No chips, or baked potato, or roasties or hasselback or dauphinois or mash or even curly fries!!! It's awful.
3661[aubergine does it too, but that doesn't worry me so much].
366226/02/2016, 12:32 - A Collins: Ooh hasselbacks
366326/02/2016, 15:03 - A Sami: So much chocolate!
3664
3665Q: are Public Health registrars not allowed to strike?
366626/02/2016, 15:04 - Z Greaves: Only those of us who hold another honorary contract with a second organisation so the majority can't.  There's a minority of st1-2 who may not and could still strike
366726/02/2016, 15:04 - A Sami: Thank you, Zoe. So, in academia and on a contract with Uni cannot strike
366826/02/2016, 15:22 - Z Greaves: No, as you are not in dispute with your university or Phe employer and there is a risk that you could be disciplined for breach of contract
366926/02/2016, 15:24 - L J Davis: Hmm. In academia I think (& not 100% so don't quote) you can strike if it's an NHS working day. I can double check when I get 5 mins if you want a definitive answer...?
367026/02/2016, 15:26 - Z Greaves: That would make sense as action taken wouldn't affect the non nhs employer
367126/02/2016, 15:33 - A Sami: Yes, please, LJD
367226/02/2016, 15:33 - A Sami: And thank you, Zoe
367326/02/2016, 17:17 - L J Davis: Ok. Acfs can take ia on NHS days... I asked david Cloke about acls...
3674My understanding is that clinical lecturers can also take action but only if they have some sort of NHS contract and against that contract,  Hence, they could only take action if the industrial action was timed for a day when they were doing NHS work.  It is on this basis that the CLs were balloted. 
3675
3676The complicating factor is that an individual contract with a university may contain clauses that indicate a requirement to undertake clinical activity.  In such circumstances it may be best to check the precise contractual requirement and expectations of employers locally.
3677(I'll put this on t'listserver too).
367826/02/2016, 17:35 - A Collins: Quick qn, is our boycotting of the review also public?
367926/02/2016, 18:02 - K Mohan: Even with PH registrars it depends if you work under your honorary contract on IA days. That's what I have been told previously unless it has changed.
368026/02/2016, 19:13 - L J Davis: I guess if you work in mixed placements then if it was a day at one where you didn't have an hon contract you probably could, kitty...
368126/02/2016, 19:17 - K Mohan: most PH registrars (non-academic) have their honorary contracts primarily for on-call working. so if you are not on call but in placement somewhere that isn;'t PHE you would be able to participate in IA. That's how i understood it.
368226/02/2016, 19:24 - A Sami: Thank you, Kitty and LJD for clarification
368326/02/2016, 19:31 - L J Davis: Ah. Except where they have honorary contract with LAs, which apparently quite a few do. :(
368426/02/2016, 19:33 - K Mohan: Again it's presumably only if they are working under that contract. Maybe we should move this to the listserver?
368526/02/2016, 19:40 - A Sami: I have just posted the question to JDC server so that others will benefit from the learning that is happening on this topic
368626/02/2016, 19:41 - A Sami: I did not think it is THAT complicated when I asked the question here this morning!
368726/02/2016, 19:44 - K Mohan: :)
368826/02/2016, 20:23 - L J Davis: Amjad; it's academics & ph. Of course it's complicated! ??????
368926/02/2016, 23:11 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
369026/02/2016, 23:13 - C Sheridan: I think that is a good idea too - suppose they can wear the regular badges but one specific to emergency folks might be quite powerful
369127/02/2016, 07:57 - K Mohan: Agree. Good idea.
369227/02/2016, 18:45 - M Redman: Liz says William Harvey hospital wanted everyone on picket to have Johann masks and placard #IstandwithJohann.
3693
3694#jofanns
369527/02/2016, 21:16 - K Mohan: I just took a call from an F2 at one of our local hospitals (I'm on call this weekend) and we got to the end of the conversation and agreed a plan - then I took his name and gave him mine and he said "Are you THE Kitty Mohan?" - we established that I was the person he was talking about - and he said "Oh my god, I'm getting really flustered, you're famous. I'm talking to a celebrity and now I'm waffling down the phone to Kitty Mohan. And now I'm blushing. Shit i think I'm going to throw up." #awkward.
369627/02/2016, 21:21 - D Rouse: Fankit?
369727/02/2016, 21:21 - D Rouse: Kitfan
369827/02/2016, 21:21 - D Rouse: Mofan!!!
369927/02/2016, 21:21 - D Rouse: #mofan
370027/02/2016, 21:21 - A Yassaee: Only took three attempts...
370127/02/2016, 21:21 - D Rouse: Lol
370227/02/2016, 21:21 - D Rouse: Got there eventually
370327/02/2016, 21:22 - A Yassaee: Classic A&E
370427/02/2016, 21:22 - K Mohan: LOL. prob not anymore - i put the poor guy out of his misery and ended the phone call somewhat abruptly.
370527/02/2016, 21:29 - A Borbora: Someone just told me I'm a "proper trade unionist". And he was on strike for 2yrs at Liverpool Docks.
370628/02/2016, 09:10 - A Collins: Today I learned: ED locumming is fun. 
3707
3708Raves are still a thing. 
3709
3710Raves now have event Doctors. They have seen things. ??
3711
371215yos can't handle their ecstasy 
3713
371419yos can't handle their coke
3715
371623yos can't handle their ketamine 
3717
3718Telling your friendly ED cons that radiology complained about a perfectly legitimate ABDO CT for someone with penetrating wounds of unknown depth results in him phoning them before you've finished your sentence. 
3719
3720ED locums are fun (did I mention?)
372128/02/2016, 10:25 - D Rouse: Sounds a normal night to me
372228/02/2016, 10:26 - L Boyle: My favourite phrase when speaking to radiology is 'can we lose the attitude please?'??
3723Because at the end of the day we can argue on the phone for 15min, let consultants know etc, but I'm going to get my scan. Thanks??
372428/02/2016, 10:40 - D Rouse: Haha I just say I'll document in the notes you are refusing the scan. What's your name again please?
372528/02/2016, 10:41 - D Rouse: It's all
3726A bit don't tell
3727Him your name pike
372828/02/2016, 10:56 - L Boyle: Lol!!
372928/02/2016, 10:58 - A Borbora: You think that any of this bothers us?
373028/02/2016, 10:58 - A Borbora: Why do you need their name? The radiology on call rota is with switchboard
373128/02/2016, 10:59 - A Borbora: Ultimately we are not technicians and if a refusal is justified we will always be supported in that.
373228/02/2016, 11:02 - D Rouse: I am on about the times when refusal has occurred despite NICE saying otherwise. Rare but happens
373328/02/2016, 11:03 - D Rouse: And yeah.  I-don't-know-what's-wrong-ograms are rarely useful
373428/02/2016, 11:03 - D Rouse: I agree there
373528/02/2016, 11:04 - D Rouse: Who said you were technicians?
373628/02/2016, 11:05 - D Rouse: Is anyone a doctor anymore. 
3737
3738I'm a triage service. 
3739He's a technician. 
3740Surgeons have geriatricians
3741And medics are not on the GIM rota. 
3742
3743We're all  stuffed
374428/02/2016, 11:13 - B Roberts: And GPs are mere conduits to the "specialists". So depressing.
374528/02/2016, 11:13 - A Borbora: We sometimes refuse scans just to annoy clinicians
374628/02/2016, 11:13 - A Borbora: Because we know it puts your blood pressure up and we get bored
374728/02/2016, 11:14 - A Borbora: I think one day emergency medicine doctors will be replaced by a ct on arrival for all patients
374828/02/2016, 11:14 - D Rouse: Dogs today
374928/02/2016, 11:14 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
375028/02/2016, 11:14 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
375128/02/2016, 11:14 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
375228/02/2016, 11:14 - D Rouse: My mum and dads puppy
375328/02/2016, 11:41 - D Rouse: Haha Aaron you are most likely right. 
3754
3755Retirement!
3756
3757Now there's something I'd enjoy
375828/02/2016, 12:20 - C Sheridan: While I just get asked why I'm a psychologist now
375928/02/2016, 12:21 - A Borbora: Retirement. Now that's something to aspire to.
376028/02/2016, 13:01 - M Redman: Aw you guys. I know there's loadsa crap and that's largely why we do bma stuff and it's important to vent and share and stuff. But it's not all bad! We have one of the most privileged jobs there is! Aaron you can spot something life threatening on a blobby image, sir rousey you can administer life saving treatment, or hold someone's hand when they're in agony and scared.
3761
3762It's not all bad ??????
376328/02/2016, 13:03 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
376428/02/2016, 13:03 - D Rouse: New photo
376528/02/2016, 13:03 - D Rouse: Blueberry is watching you
376628/02/2016, 13:07 - A Borbora: Blobby! Those are finely tuned representations of the human form. ??
376728/02/2016, 13:09 - A Collins: The complaint today was that the scan shouldn't have been done as it was normal. Post hoc. From the chap who did the scan. I despaired. 
3768
3769The kids surgeons call the ultrasound pictures mystic snowlglobes :D
377028/02/2016, 13:10 - A Collins: I don't have much bother with the radiologists up here... Dunno what Lukes problem is ;)
377128/02/2016, 13:11 - K Mohan: Guys, I hate to say it but that cat is watching us. In a judgey way. I'd suggest we all back away slowly one at a time. I'll go first.
377228/02/2016, 13:11 - L Boyle: At RIE?
377328/02/2016, 13:23 - A Borbora: The CAT scan?
377428/02/2016, 13:24 - A Collins: ??
377528/02/2016, 13:42 - A Borbora: Sadly we're being trained not to refuse scans. One of the perks of the job gone. All that's left is the private practice (for now).
377628/02/2016, 13:50 - A Borbora: http://youtu.be/Y6N6EJ3IQuI
377728/02/2016, 14:44 - K Mohan: So I've just had my second SHO do the "OMG. You're the BMA girl" routine. Seriously - how come people suddenly know who I am?!? (And why didn't they know before, huh?) ;)
377828/02/2016, 14:52 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
377928/02/2016, 14:54 - M Redman: (You have to click on the image to see the text...)
378028/02/2016, 15:21 - K Mohan: hmm...
378128/02/2016, 15:23 - M Redman: *blows kisses smiley face*
378228/02/2016, 15:24 - M Redman: I could do a whole range of them 
3783'Dear Jeremy. Do one'
3784'Contract shmontract'
3785...
378628/02/2016, 15:27 - J Malawana: You just weren't angry enough before. Now you're "that angry BMA girl". That's how I refer to you...
378728/02/2016, 15:27 - L Boyle: Is she a girl tho at this age? Or a woman? Hehe ??
378828/02/2016, 15:41 - K Mohan: LUKE!!!
378928/02/2016, 15:52 - A Collins: Love it.
379028/02/2016, 18:34 - A Collins: David/LJ that fb post on FBGOD is really very nicely written :)
379128/02/2016, 20:30 - Y Gourtsouyannis: A couple of questions if u guys have a mo (whenevr). Would value ur thoughs however brief. 1. At UCH there may be a hoo ha brewing over IA being on day of 'finals' exam. 2. CQC coming on day of srike  3. Lots of specialties changing ovr. If u have any bon mots etc that u guys have used in ur trust do let me knw. Will be meeting HR at UCH in a few days.
379228/02/2016, 20:32 - M Redman: All the drama going down at uch! 
3793hyms also have finals and it's not affecting hull side but waiting to hear about York side
379428/02/2016, 20:36 - L J Davis: Thank you Adam! My fingers have been itching to write something on the fbgod about whistleblowing for a bit... ??
379528/02/2016, 20:37 - Z Greaves: Well the best response I've heard came from my housemates discussing it where one stated that the decision had clearly been made to maximise impact of the strike
379628/02/2016, 21:01 - M Redman: Lovely msg Johann!
379728/02/2016, 21:03 - C Castles: What message?
379828/02/2016, 21:13 - M Redman: On fb
379928/02/2016, 21:14 - C Castles: I dont really look at that page. What does it say?
380028/02/2016, 21:15 - M Redman: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153990423339772&id=517524771
380128/02/2016, 21:15 - M Redman: Dear All
3802
3803You have seen over the last week the juniors contract once again become a central issue. It was important we did not simply rush into a knee jerk reaction, but consult our membership ie you, and come up with a plan that maintains the most important thing we have in the fight ahead, our unity. JDC has clearly taken account of the views of our members, before moving forward. Industrial action is simply one component of our fight to stop having a contract imposed upon us. JDC has clearly stated that it wants a negotiated settlement, but those negotiations should not be undertaken under threats of imposition, to arbitrary unrealistic timetables and without any evidence of impact. The government may run health policy by guess work and luck, but as medical professionals we would prefer to be treated like we treat our patients, with care and based on evidence.
3804
3805We have seen example after example over that last few months of how overstretched and appallingly mismanaged the current NHS is. Those in supposed leadership positions need to look at the growing evidence in front of them, they need to put the interests of patients and the NHS in front of their personal desire to fulfill political edicts and the rewards that they hope that follow. Now is the time for those in leadership positions in the NHS to stand up for patients and their staff and demand the appropriate funding to deliver services safely. We as frontline doctors need to robustly and clearly state what we expect of them as the leaders of the organisations we work in. That is why I would encourage all junior doctors to continue to organise open meetings in your trusts with your chief executives. Outline the fact that imposition of a contract is not how you manage professionals and no doctor will cooperate and facilitate an imposed contract. It is simply unacceptable. We currently have a nationally agreed contract and until we get an agreement on a replacement, the nationally agreed contract is the contract that should be used across the NHS. The JDC is committed to achieving a fit for purpose contract that takes account of the needs of the modern NHS and junior doctors, but that should be through a properly negotiated process without these incessant threats and abuse of staff. There are trusts that have committed to not blindly imposing these contracts, however that is unlikely to be more than a stopgap as they are receiving a lot of pressure from you, their staff. It is important all trusts seriously consider the implications of imposition and those messages are transmitted up the line to the DH and the secretary of state and eventually the prime minister.
3806
3807Over the next few months we will be proceeding with the programme of industrial action, we will be taking forward legal challenges to the imposition, we will continue to campaign publicly, as well as lobby privately anyone that has any influence to make the Prime Minister step in and take responsibility for the dangerous mismanagement and incompetence currently being displayed at the Department of Health. Industrial action is the last thing any doctor ever wants to undertake. We absolutely are committed to trying to find a negotiated solution. However a government unwilling to listen and unwilling to negotiate means we have no other means of registering our protest. The JDC has been clear that should the government not be willing to negotiate and talk to junior doctors, then we will explore every possible avenue open to us to stop the dangerous loss of medical staff to this country.
3808
3809Over the coming few weeks you will hear of a series of other events and activities that the JDC are going to be coordinating, as well as, many protests and activities that I know already many of you are planning. Please keep going and keep contacting me as necessary and whatever support we can provide we will.
3810
3811Please do start to lobby your MPs heavily. We will be organising centrally coordinated events, but that should not be waited for, I would encourage all 54000 junior doctors, all other members of NHS staff and every supportive member of the public to start writing to your MP and requesting personal meetings with them in their constituency surgeries or at Parliament. The aim of these meetings should be to clearly outline the deleterious impact of imposition on the long term survival of the NHS, should all of the goodwill in the NHS evaporate, something which is inevitable if these contracts are forced through.
3812
3813Many junior doctors ask me what they can do to have a greater impact. I would encourage you all to participate in all of the activities above, but also write letters or articles for the national and regional press. Get your opinions heard. It is important that the government, society and the press hear from as many doctors as possible, as these letters and articles serve to powerfully demonstrate that this is not simply a small group of BMA agitators, as the government spin machine would have the public believe, but an entire unified profession.
3814
3815Over the coming few months I note that a lot of organisations in the medical profession, not just the BMA will be running elections. I would encourage as many junior doctors as possible to stand. We have seen the importance of real and accountable representation within the medical establishment. I look at organisations like the royal colleges and see some unaccountable councils without representation of junior doctors, apart from single seats reserved for trainee committees who often in the past have had little ability to influence the policies and decisions of those organisations. I would encourage junior doctors to stand. But I would also encourage junior doctors to vote, vote for junior doctors and individuals that have a clear commitment to the working lives of junior doctors, but also hold them to account. For too long in the medical profession we have seen organisations stifle democratic elections by claiming that campaigning and getting your voice heard is “not cricket”. This has ensured that there is never a change and the establishment continues. It is time that we have much more representative and responsive organisations in the medical profession that actually take account of the views of all of us. I notice the impact for instance of ASiT, BoTA and key individuals on the college council of the Royal College of Surgeons that ensured something that had never been seen before, when the college apologised to its trainees over its actions. I also noted this week that the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges Trainee Doctors Group took a principled stand over the use of a review of morale of junior doctors as a way for the government to justify continuing to abuse us and impose a contract on junior doctors. Our generation of junior doctors is saying enough is enough and we want strong leadership within the profession on behalf of doctors and for the benefit of patients, not simply to cover up ill thought out government policies.
3816
3817Many medical students and young doctors have contacted me over the last few weeks about their future careers. I would simply say that being a doctor is the best profession in the world. Looking after people and working in a public service like the NHS is an incredible priviledge. At the end of this, whatever happens, we need to focus our unity and our passion on taking control of the NHS, fighting for the best National Health Service we can possibly imagine. Patient safety is not the remit of some politicians who only care about the next election and a soundbite, it is what we passionately fight for day in day out. A seven day service is not owned by some slick political party that couldn’t care less about the people it serves but it is what we are proud to deliver, day in day out. We are the BMA but we are also the NHS. Once this mess is over, I would like to see all of our passion and courage over the last six months be redirected into making sure the NHS, our NHS, is the best it can possibly be by fighting every single day for the patients we look after and the public we serve. The best way we can make sure of this though is to make sure we are safe at work and the next generation have a job that values them and values their incredible passion and dedication.
3818
3819I and many JDC members, will continue to give talks across the country at RJDCs, BMA divisional meetings and hospital mess meetings. If you are the LNC representative for your hospital please consider organising a meeting and inviting us along and we will do our best to come. (This will be coming out via the regional services staff and to LNC chairs anyway but as always feel free to contact me directly if nothing else).
3820
3821Finally, please keep up the high attendance at all picket lines and other arranged events, as this is incredibly important as always.
3822
3823Thank you to everyone for their continued efforts and please do continue to look after one another.
3824
3825Best wishes
3826Johann
382728/02/2016, 21:17 - J Malawana: Yannis out it on the exec listserver.
382828/02/2016, 21:17 - K Mohan: here's the summary to johann's waffle i mean epic post: 
3829
38301. JDC and the wider BMA are listening to you– if you organise a meeting we will try and come to it to listen to what you your views/answer your questions.
38312. Please do get involved – lobby your MPs, write letters/articles for local/regional/national media
38323. There are lots of elections coming up  - please consider standing for election if you are eligible/ but most importantly please do vote  - and please do vote for your junior colleagues. 
38334. Please keep up the high attendance at all picket lines and other arranged events, this is incredibly important as always.
38345. Finally, and most importantly, please do look after yourself and each other.
383528/02/2016, 21:19 - H Carter: Yannis I will respond about the finals issue on list server.
383628/02/2016, 21:20 - M Redman: Oh yes sorry yannis, I will respond in there too ??
383728/02/2016, 21:21 - C Castles: Ty melody
383828/02/2016, 22:36 - L J Davis: Thank you Zoe!
383928/02/2016, 22:43 - L Boyle: Whose message is that above??
384028/02/2016, 22:43 - L Boyle: I've never seen the like of that in my life
384128/02/2016, 22:44 - M Redman: Johanns
384228/02/2016, 22:44 - L Boyle: ??????some effort
384328/02/2016, 22:44 - L Boyle: I'll get a brew
384428/02/2016, 22:44 - M Redman: On fb bc Conan wanted to see it. It's a good msg ?
384529/02/2016, 09:16 - E McCourt: David is on Victoria Derbyshire using his serious face ??
384629/02/2016, 09:28 - L J Davis: Oh! Mabel in the bath! No telly in bathroom!
384729/02/2016, 09:30 - J Malawana: Diva was very good. :-)
384829/02/2016, 09:30 - A Collier I caught the tail end but he was very good.
384929/02/2016, 09:32 - A Collier Is there a plan to respond to Darshan and Tim's Facebook thread? I'm not sure which Facebook post their on about.
385029/02/2016, 09:32 - A Collier Oh and Johann...I want you to take me to the Ivy!
385129/02/2016, 09:34 - J Malawana: Lucy Jane has responded with the relevant info.
385229/02/2016, 09:40 - L J Davis: Andrew, you're both married men! You can't ask him to take you out!!!
385329/02/2016, 09:49 - D Rouse: Was difficult to balance the argument.  
3854
3855But think the last point was important. 
3856
3857They are not leaving medicine they are still choosing to be doctors but choosing not to do this in the NHS. I think that speaks volumes.
385829/02/2016, 09:56 - A Collins: Ah good they'd asked me and then ignored me. Glad they found someone easier to get to
385929/02/2016, 09:56 - A Collins: /probably better
386029/02/2016, 10:16 - K Mohan: What we the interview about? and I want to go to the ivy! I'm sad that during the previous negs people went and i wasn't invited! Was that what the "chop club" was code for??
386129/02/2016, 10:44 - L J Davis: I'm in the queue!!!
386229/02/2016, 10:52 - J Malawana: I think the aim is to ensure no one on JDC socialises or communicates with anyone else. Just to make sure that we have a properly dysfunctional committee. It's an interesting aim.
386329/02/2016, 11:51 - A Collins: Lol
386429/02/2016, 11:54 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
386529/02/2016, 11:54 - A Collins: Are we sure someone didn't fall asleep *during* your interview?
386629/02/2016, 11:55 - D Rouse: Haha that is a possibility too
386729/02/2016, 11:55 - K Mohan: DID YOU TAKE YOUR CAT TO YOUR INTERVIEW?!?
386829/02/2016, 11:55 - D Rouse: Haha he was the main BMA spokesperson
386929/02/2016, 11:55 - J Malawana: I was really awake this morning. Then I watched Victoria Derbyshire and became very tired.
387029/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: He feels very connected to the JDC
387129/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: Especially Andrew collier
387229/02/2016, 11:56 - A Collins: This is David, a hard  working Junior Doctor has been at work so much recently he has brought his cat to the interview so they can bond.
387329/02/2016, 11:56 - D Rouse: Lol
387429/02/2016, 12:52 - M Redman: What's the ivy
387529/02/2016, 12:52 - M Redman: Oooh I'll have to watch later David :)
387629/02/2016, 12:54 - L J Davis: It's a restaurant which used to be very infamous for celebs & paparazzi
387729/02/2016, 12:54 - L J Davis: Johann took his own photos, I'm sure...
387829/02/2016, 13:45 - J Malawana: Ok so someone has leaked the JDC advice to the hsj. And since it was only given to JDC members it has to be someone on JDC.
387929/02/2016, 13:45 - J Malawana: I have posted on the listserver.
388029/02/2016, 13:56 - L J Davis: Why would someone on Jdc do this? I just don't get it...
388129/02/2016, 13:56 - K Mohan: is that rhetorical or are you expecting an answer ljd?
388229/02/2016, 13:57 - L J Davis: It's just me expressing my disbelief...
388329/02/2016, 14:05 - J Malawana: I am so angry right now it's probably not worth asking me anything.
388429/02/2016, 14:05 - J Malawana: Just got off the phone to our lawyers.
388529/02/2016, 14:07 - A Collins: FFS.
388629/02/2016, 14:09 - A Yassaee: Maybe the only solution is that everytime there's a briefing at a jdc meeting just give everyone a slightly different hard copy version and then wait to see which surfaces.
388729/02/2016, 14:09 - D Rouse: Sorry what's been leaked
388829/02/2016, 14:09 - D Rouse: The legal and privilege advise!?!?
388929/02/2016, 14:13 - L J Davis: Yes
389029/02/2016, 14:18 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Take a look at @HSJnews's Tweet: https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/704298001116872704?s=08
389129/02/2016, 14:18 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Oh dear
389229/02/2016, 14:42 - Z Greaves: What I thought papers were confiscated when people left the room?!
389329/02/2016, 14:42 - Z Greaves: Will have to have named copies signed in and out
389429/02/2016, 14:45 - K Mohan: if people want to leak they will regardless of whatever measures you put in place.sadly  i think the issue is people (meaning whoever leaked stuff) not process. sadly i think we're returning to a time when info will just not be allowed to be shared with jdc or even exec.
389529/02/2016, 14:46 - L J Davis: Tbh, someone could still photo with a phone.
389629/02/2016, 14:47 - L J Davis: Exactly kitty.
389729/02/2016, 14:47 - A Yassaee: I was going to say what kitty did but less politely.
389829/02/2016, 14:50 - J Malawana: Kitty can you send me over the details of how the government knew about that exec meeting that was mentioned in parliament whilst was still supposed to be secret? From last year? I am now really worried the wider BMA are going to lose faith in juniors as they basically have backed everything I have been saying because I have said juniors can be trusted and relied upon. They have all been reading or talking about the JDC listserver and after this I think there will be a credibility question again.
389929/02/2016, 14:51 - K Mohan: yeah i agree - will send you info - andrew i'll copy you in too.
390029/02/2016, 14:53 - J Malawana: The stupid thing is whoever did this am sure was trying to achieve damage to JDC or even the leadership. But actually all they have done is make people go livid and focus on the trust and reliability question. I am starting to have loads of very angry questions about who on JDC can be trusted or more to the point not trusted. This is so damaging its incredible.
390129/02/2016, 15:25 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Do we think somebody actually handed ovr the relevant documentation to HSJ? Or could this be explained by unguarded comments?
390229/02/2016, 15:26 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I find it hard to believe that any JDC member would specifically funnel vital documents to HSJ
390329/02/2016, 15:27 - L J Davis: Looks like direct quotes from the document
390429/02/2016, 15:28 - K Mohan: i would like to agree with you yannis but there appear to be direct quotes from the legal advice. if they aren't direct quotes i have no idea what they are (clearly i don't have the legal advice to compare it with).
390529/02/2016, 15:28 - K Mohan: i'm sad regardless as the damage this will do even if unguarded comments is catastrophic. both within and outside the bma. we have fought and fought to get the bma to believe that you can trust a group of 70 people so that we could share info freely.
390629/02/2016, 15:30 - K Mohan: this puts johann in a terrible position. jdc may be asking for accountability/ transparency of decision making/ involvement in issues - but this has essentially taken away in my view the ability for jdc to get this.
390729/02/2016, 15:30 - K Mohan: i'll be amazed if council stay quiet on this issue.
390829/02/2016, 17:21 - Z Greaves: It's mad! Listserver is only one step away from calling for the sort of investigation where anonymous tip offs are made and people are hauled off without knowing what they're meant to have done or who accused them and are never heard of again
390929/02/2016, 17:25 - K Mohan: It'll calm down Zoe. Just remember that more people than usual are new to JDC this year. And it's normally 1/3 new. Many of us have lived with this sort of stuff for years but equally many not. It must be quite a shock.
391029/02/2016, 17:28 - K Mohan: I feel sorry for the new JDC folk. If I was new I prob wouldn't come back.
391129/02/2016, 17:29 - J Malawana: To be fair I feel like I am new. I have never seen behaviour like this. The last 6 months has been a total eye opener for me. I am genuinely shocked at the behaviour of members of this committee.
391229/02/2016, 17:30 - K Mohan: By new, I do mean "not been involved in JDC since 2012".
391329/02/2016, 17:31 - K Mohan: 2012 is a rough estimate btw.
391429/02/2016, 17:31 - L J Davis: Ha! I'm neither new by kitty's definition or by anyone else's & im still shocked
391529/02/2016, 17:32 - L J Davis: Was the legal advice emailed or put on the listserver? I thought it was just tabled& in paper format
391629/02/2016, 17:36 - L J Davis: When I search for 'judicial review' on my email I get an announcement that remedy didn't win theirs on mmc/mtas from 2010... So I'm guessing not?
391729/02/2016, 18:22 - L Boyle: Sorry just reading all this. Appalling re HSJ. At least nobody reads that rag.
391829/02/2016, 18:22 - L Boyle: Also - no idea what point Darshan & Tim are making about Facebook on JDC-L.
391929/02/2016, 18:57 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
392029/02/2016, 18:57 - M Redman: Johanna ??
392129/02/2016, 18:57 - J Malawana: Lol. What?!
392229/02/2016, 18:58 - J Malawana: I know. niky is going to get it when I see him
392329/02/2016, 18:58 - M Redman: ??
392429/02/2016, 19:03 - L Boyle: He's very enthusiastic
392529/02/2016, 19:03 - L Boyle: Wished us an "amazing" Monday earlier
392629/02/2016, 19:03 - L Boyle: I want whatever he's on!!
392729/02/2016, 19:43 - M Redman: Is anyone watching inside out? Has yours been Yorkshire based so far? Cos ours is. no salwa. Just neonates and polio in Yorkshire. Lol h
392829/02/2016, 19:43 - M Redman: I think mebs regional?
392929/02/2016, 19:43 - E McCourt: All about Hull
393029/02/2016, 19:44 - E McCourt: But I am in Hull
393129/02/2016, 19:44 - M Redman: Ellen do you ever feel your life is the Truman Show?
393229/02/2016, 19:45 - E McCourt: I'll let you know when I try to escape...
393329/02/2016, 19:53 - J Malawana: Our one is all London
393429/02/2016, 19:53 - E McCourt: We're in Romania now...
393529/02/2016, 19:54 - M Redman: 83yo brain surgeon earning £500/m in romania
3936
3937Talking about loop hole of UK students going to Europe for med school, but exodus of European medics to UK
393829/02/2016, 20:01 - B Roberts: This leak is terrible - how the hell do we row back from here? I rather like Richard's suggestion...
393929/02/2016, 20:02 - B Roberts: I've only just got in so wouldn't have seen Inside Out even if we had it in Wales :(
394029/02/2016, 20:04 - A Yassaee: Re the leak thread - am I alone in thinking that the point about it being intentional or not is rather moot?
394129/02/2016, 20:12 - A Collins: Just seem David's piece with VD this am, very nice, well done.
394229/02/2016, 20:21 - J Malawana: I read that as David's piece has VD.
394329/02/2016, 20:21 - J Malawana: I had to read that again.
394429/02/2016, 20:21 - B Roberts: Johanna beat me to it...!
394529/02/2016, 20:21 - J Malawana: Thought bloody hell, Collins is on form.
394629/02/2016, 20:21 - J Malawana: Lol
394729/02/2016, 20:21 - J Malawana: Great minds Bethan. Great minds.
394829/02/2016, 20:23 - J Malawana: I had a rather amusing text message from one of our committee members earlier:
3949
3950In light of rather caustic and frustrating emails, I offer this : How do you hide a £5 from a General Surgeon? You put it in the patients notes. How do you hide it from an orthopod? Put it on the patient. How do you hide £5 from a Plastic surgeon? Trick question! You can't hide £5 from a plastic surgeon
395129/02/2016, 20:24 - A Collins: Lol
395229/02/2016, 20:25 - A Collins: And I am crushingly unfamiliar with David's piece or its disease state. You'd have to ask Els Draeger!
395329/02/2016, 20:29 - D Rouse: OMG I AM NOT DISEASED
395429/02/2016, 20:36 - A Collins: Anyone need a drink? http://www.buzzfeed.com/emmacooke24/lets-get-ginny-with-it#.ugz62J8GY
395529/02/2016, 20:36 - A Collins: After Bethan and Conan's valiant efforts through the Whiskey selections I think gin may be the next big thing for Exec pre meets...
395629/02/2016, 20:57 - B Roberts: Except you missed the fact that I called you Johanna, Johann!
395729/02/2016, 20:57 - B Roberts: (I may no longer be your favourite female national chair...)
395829/02/2016, 21:07 - J Malawana: You will always be my favourite female national chair. Until Collins takes over Scotland. Then it's a touch call
395929/02/2016, 21:15 - B Roberts: I would love to see AC in a tiara!
396029/02/2016, 21:15 - J Malawana: Tough
396129/02/2016, 21:16 - J Malawana: When diva screams like that don't you start wondering whether you maybe onto something?!
396229/02/2016, 21:17 - A Collier ?AC?
396329/02/2016, 21:17 - A Collier Collins/Collier? Agenda committee
396429/02/2016, 21:19 - A Borbora: Alternating Current
396529/02/2016, 21:35 - D Tooth: Wow! What a day, now to read the emails. I am lost for words!!
396629/02/2016, 21:39 - A Collins: I'm reliably informed that alternating current is coming to Scotland very soon!
396729/02/2016, 21:39 - A Collins: If y'all are nice I'll wear my finest tiara for JDCONF
396829/02/2016, 21:42 - A Borbora: ??
396929/02/2016, 21:59 - A Sami: After a blossful 8 hours sleep post night shift, one word for the news today: Bastard ??
3970
3971Yorkshire and Humber TUC are looking for one of us to address their AGM with a short speach.
3972
3973Any body had an experience of what to expect?
397429/02/2016, 21:59 - A Sami: Blissful*
397529/02/2016, 22:21 - A Borbora: A lot of support
397629/02/2016, 22:21 - A Borbora: The TUCs are fully on board
397729/02/2016, 22:21 - M Redman: Great job sir rousey
397829/02/2016, 22:23 - M Redman: Finally caught up. And reena - my days, what a machine post night!!!
397929/02/2016, 23:03 - D Rouse: Thanks melody
398029/02/2016, 23:03 - D Rouse: Knackered up at 7 this morning. Just finished work now
398129/02/2016, 23:12 - A Collins: I feel your pain, I spent most of last night standing in our bathroom trying not to vom. Then tried to go to work. 
3982Protip, doesn't go well.
398329/02/2016, 23:17 - A Sami: Melody. What time on VD catch up? I got it. But do not know where to look at the hour long show! Woild like to watch my fellow emergency medicine activist!
3984
3985Adam, hope you are better.
398629/02/2016, 23:18 - A Collins: 6-7 mins in
398729/02/2016, 23:18 - A Sami: Cool.
398829/02/2016, 23:18 - A Collins: Thanks amjad, I've now managed to eat. Its a start
398929/02/2016, 23:19 - K Mohan: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12178595/BMA-ignored-lawyers-advice-before-launching-judicial-review-over-new-contracts-for-junior-doctors.html
399029/02/2016, 23:20 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
399129/02/2016, 23:27 - A Sami: David. You tell them how bad it is in A&E. I work regular shifts where only I and another doctor who is not a locum!
3992
3993Good to know, Adam.
3994
3995Kitty, shit, init?!
399629/02/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: I did bad?
399729/02/2016, 23:29 - A Sami: Is it a loaded question? I would say not that bad for a cat lover! ??
399829/02/2016, 23:30 - A Sami: The interview was good. You told them as it is.
3999
4000The cat thing though...
400129/02/2016, 23:30 - A Sami: CoI: I have got two cats, Millie and Roxy ?
400229/02/2016, 23:33 - A Sami: The shit init was about the leak in the Telegraph
400329/02/2016, 23:37 - J Malawana: The person that leaked it was trying to do maximum damage to the JDC Or exec or whoever in their twisted view they were taking a pop at. And by extension didn't give a shit about the impact on juniors or actively wanted to harm. But I assume second less likely. So basically didn't care the impact they would have. But they also are on a national committee representing juniors.  That's what's incredibly galling.
400429/02/2016, 23:47 - K Mohan: I have to admit for the first time today having read that HSJ story end now the telegraph story I feel like we're losing/have lost our battle. I haven't felt that before. I feel that whoever has done this, and let's be honest someone has done something leading to that story being able to be published, has failed junior doctors today.
4005
4006Seriously how can we fight the Govt when our own side is firing grenades at us. This has got to stop.
400729/02/2016, 23:50 - A Sami: Could it be someone that is not a junior doctor? I say this because the leak will affect all junior doctors. Is someone stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot?
4008
4009Have we upset someone along the way, that it not a junior doctor, enough to do this to us?
401029/02/2016, 23:51 - J Malawana: No. I doubt it. Apparently mark was nearly as livid as me. And I doubt anyone in the organisation would do anything that crossed the coc.
401129/02/2016, 23:52 - K Mohan: I agree it's just JDC snd staff right?
401229/02/2016, 23:52 - K Mohan: *and
401329/02/2016, 23:52 - J Malawana: And all the staff know marks view on this. He cannot stand leaks. He would have them fired without question.
401429/02/2016, 23:52 - K Mohan: Why would you risk your actual job for this.
401529/02/2016, 23:53 - J Malawana: So therefore I just don't think it would ever be staff. Even the ones that have caused us problems would never do this I don't think.
401629/02/2016, 23:53 - A Yassaee: The question really is whether we think whoever leaked is likely to repeat.
401729/02/2016, 23:54 - K Mohan: Professionally the world of policy is relatively small.
401829/02/2016, 23:54 - J Malawana: So that leaves docs. And the only reason I can seriously think is they wanted to cause damage to the committee. It's either that or they actively are trying to sabotage juniors but I doubt anyone is that stupid.
401929/02/2016, 23:55 - J Malawana: So they basically prioritised their personal agenda over 54000 colleagues.
402029/02/2016, 23:55 - J Malawana: Amjad if this was the first time I would agree
402129/02/2016, 23:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Just posted on the listserver some brief thoughts on this. Seriously though....lets all take a deep breath. And please speculation will drive us all mad.
402229/02/2016, 23:55 - J Malawana: But this is not.
402301/03/2016, 00:00 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Johann the problem is that we are at risk of building a narrative whereby this leak is linked to the other 'leak' and the other 'leak' and the other. If i remember (going back a few weeks) many of us including you came to the conclusion that previous leaks were probably not even leaks so i would be wary of retrospectively attributing all the real problems we have had to one 'mole'. Todays revelations are indeed damaging, and worse than anything that has occured previously...but lets put into perspective and not let it jaundice how we view JDC as a whole.
402401/03/2016, 00:01 - J Malawana: Perhaps Yannis. Let me fully calm down I guess.
402501/03/2016, 00:02 - A Yassaee: I am not sure though that previous incidents included full quotes?
402601/03/2016, 00:03 - J Malawana: I think my anger is because unlike the aim to damage exec in the eyes of the committee or the officers or chair. This is about damaging JDC at the expense of junior docs as a whole with no regard to them in order to attack a group or a committee or a leadership
402701/03/2016, 00:03 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I think ur revent post on the list server was very wise johann...r.e taking a step back. Altho i suspect that u didnt manage to take off any time this evening from BMA business?  ;-) I did tho..went to watch the Big Short...pretty good.'
402801/03/2016, 00:04 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Arrash...agree...today's stuff was of a different nature to previous leaks
402901/03/2016, 00:05 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Amd thats my point...theres no point in retrospectively linking all the incidents and turining in on ourselves
403001/03/2016, 00:06 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Have studied the history of the Soviet Union in depth...that kinda stuff doesnt end well...;-(
403101/03/2016, 00:06 - J Malawana: I don't think we will turn in on ourselves.
403201/03/2016, 00:06 - J Malawana: I am more determined than ever to get on with my job. And
403301/03/2016, 00:07 - J Malawana: For a week there I was actually starting to question some of this stuff. Today has made me angrier than even listening to Jeremy hunt.
403401/03/2016, 00:10 - J Malawana: The difference I think is I won't be playing nice with people I thought before of as being misguided. We are going to have redouble our efforts as I am determined the way we fight people that are willing to make these type of selfish choices is to be more determined than ever to succeed.
403501/03/2016, 00:10 - J Malawana: Kit don't be down beat.
403601/03/2016, 00:11 - K Mohan: I know. I'm used to this shit. More used to it than most of you. It's just wearying.
403701/03/2016, 00:11 - J Malawana: The people that do this want a reaction. The reaction will be to fight harder and prove that despite all this we will make a success of this.
403801/03/2016, 00:12 - K Mohan: Anyway. Where's diva when you need someone to pick on?
403901/03/2016, 00:12 - K Mohan: Diva.
404001/03/2016, 00:12 - K Mohan: Diva.
404101/03/2016, 00:12 - K Mohan: Diva.
404201/03/2016, 00:12 - K Mohan: Lol.
404301/03/2016, 00:17 - L Boyle: It's Oscar season so has anyone ever seen Michael Douglas' 1987 Oscar winning performance as Gordon Gekko in Wall St?
404401/03/2016, 00:18 - J Malawana: ...
404501/03/2016, 00:18 - L Boyle: This was Johann's reaction to the leak today in BMA House https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8wqmyyFJw
404601/03/2016, 00:19 - L Boyle: And quite right too.
404701/03/2016, 00:20 - K Mohan: Lol.
404801/03/2016, 00:20 - J Malawana: Lol
404901/03/2016, 00:20 - J Malawana: Lol
405001/03/2016, 00:21 - J Malawana: I think He seemed quite controlled :-)
405101/03/2016, 00:21 - L Boyle: Lol!!
405201/03/2016, 00:21 - L Boyle: It's a good show.
405301/03/2016, 00:21 - K Mohan: As were you Johann... Remember. ;)
405401/03/2016, 00:21 - J Malawana: Right going to bed. Have meeting at 8.30.
405501/03/2016, 00:22 - K Mohan: Go hug Noah. :)
405601/03/2016, 00:22 - L Boyle: Goodnight all ????
405701/03/2016, 00:22 - J Malawana: Night all. Noah was very good at calming me down. He basically told me off all evening.
405801/03/2016, 00:22 - J Malawana: Apparently I cut up potatoes wrong.
405901/03/2016, 00:22 - J Malawana: I drive wrong.
406001/03/2016, 00:22 - K Mohan: I can believe that.
406101/03/2016, 00:22 - J Malawana: And I sit in the wrong place
406201/03/2016, 00:22 - K Mohan: Yes you do I've been in a car with your
406301/03/2016, 00:22 - K Mohan: You
406401/03/2016, 00:22 - J Malawana: That kid is opinionated
406501/03/2016, 00:22 - K Mohan: Believable.
406601/03/2016, 00:23 - K Mohan: He's your kid. Now 'night!
406701/03/2016, 00:23 - J Malawana: Night
406801/03/2016, 00:23 - L Boyle: Do not look on list
406901/03/2016, 00:23 - L Boyle: Let's leave that until mane
407001/03/2016, 00:25 - K Mohan: Yeah sleep. Do not post.
407101/03/2016, 11:17 - K Mohan: you'll all be pleased to know that i told nik that he's our hero for his "johanna email".
407201/03/2016, 11:18 - K Mohan: i suggested he went with yoyo next time.
407301/03/2016, 13:09 - Z Greaves: Lol
407401/03/2016, 16:58 - A Collins: whos going to be about in the pullman/euston area before next jdc?
407501/03/2016, 17:00 - A Yassaee: I can be
407601/03/2016, 18:22 - L J Davis: Ok war room. Have I got the narrative straight? I'm fairly clear on it; what am I missing? (See listserver).
407701/03/2016, 18:22 - A Collins: I think you're on point
407801/03/2016, 18:23 - E McCourt: ????
407901/03/2016, 18:24 - A Collins: Rocket surgery? :D
408001/03/2016, 18:25 - L J Davis: Ellen reads my messages ??
408101/03/2016, 18:25 - L J Davis: I don't have a daffodil in my emojis
408201/03/2016, 18:27 - A Collier I'm afraid LJD the narrative is still lacking.
408301/03/2016, 18:27 - B Roberts: ????this is the closest I have. I think the second one is bamboo but I'm pretending they're leeks for the day.
408401/03/2016, 18:27 - A Collier Stories need a beginning middle and an end.
408501/03/2016, 18:27 - L J Davis: Go on, wise collier...
408601/03/2016, 18:27 - A Collins: To be a really good story they need at least one dramatic arc too.
408701/03/2016, 18:28 - L J Davis: I can explode? That'd be quite dramatic? In a puff of logic?
408801/03/2016, 18:28 - A Collier The beginning is the reason for dispute, the middle is the action and how that achieved our goal, and the end is clear annunciation of our target.
408901/03/2016, 18:30 - L J Davis: Beginning = they are imbeciles
4090Middle = IA? +/- new negs, without imposition in August
4091End = Shiney new contract which is agreed.
409201/03/2016, 18:30 - A Collier Previously we fumbled on explaining what our goal was and in connecting our action our goal.
409301/03/2016, 18:31 - L J Davis: (I had to temper the word imbeciles...)
409401/03/2016, 18:33 - A Collier We still aren't communicating how our action brings the other side to the table or what we want when we get to the table.
409501/03/2016, 18:35 - A Collins: Is it becuase we're not that convinced that the action we're taking will do so? David's email hints at (and I don't wish to put words in his mouth) the feeling which I share that we are hampered by the feelings of our membership.
409601/03/2016, 18:35 - A Collins: Now don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting they're wrong not to want to FWO or that they don't have good reasons not for wanting to take protracted action.
409701/03/2016, 18:37 - A Collins: But I do think that a number of us are holding a dichotomy of believing we're doing as much as we can *in the limits of what membership want*
409801/03/2016, 18:37 - A Collins: Or perhaps that's just an excuse we're letting ourselves use. 
4099
4100Discuss.
410101/03/2016, 18:53 - A Borbora: Take this in listserver, please? 
4102There's a thread on strategy. I outlined that one objective is to bring them back to talks. But we currently have nothing to talk about even if they came back tomorrow.
410301/03/2016, 18:53 - A Collins: Legit. Will do when back at pc
410401/03/2016, 18:54 - A Borbora: Cool
410501/03/2016, 18:55 - L J Davis: It's what we want at the table that's the tricky bit, Andrew.
410601/03/2016, 18:57 - L J Davis: But it doesn't change the narrative - which is pressure on trusts to put pressure on gov...
410701/03/2016, 19:09 - L Boyle: Love LJD's response on list ????
410801/03/2016, 21:27 - D Rouse: Arrrrrgg
410901/03/2016, 21:27 - D Rouse: 135 people in the department 6 hour wait
411001/03/2016, 21:27 - D Rouse: Arrrrgh
411101/03/2016, 21:27 - D Rouse: Arrrrgh
411201/03/2016, 21:27 - D Rouse: No cubical a
411301/03/2016, 21:27 - D Rouse: And not on divert
411401/03/2016, 21:28 - D Rouse: Resus full
411501/03/2016, 21:28 - D Rouse: Plus 3 extra :-(((((
411601/03/2016, 21:28 - J Malawana: Call jeremy and ask him to come down and help
411701/03/2016, 21:28 - D Rouse: You got his number
411801/03/2016, 21:35 - A Collins: I'll come help. I hear anyone can pitch in in Casualty
411901/03/2016, 21:35 - A Collins: *runs
412001/03/2016, 21:35 - D Rouse: Fucking casualty
412101/03/2016, 21:35 - A Collins: That does sound vile. And like you should be on divert.
412201/03/2016, 21:35 - D Rouse: The only causality there will be will be a trauma call for Collins!!!
412301/03/2016, 21:35 - M Redman: ??do the best you can in a broken system. 
4124
4125Then fix the system on your day off
412601/03/2016, 21:35 - D Rouse: But I love you
412701/03/2016, 21:35 - A Collins: Tbf, it sounds like that dept is a fucking casualty of Jeremy tonight.
412801/03/2016, 21:35 - D Tooth: Sorry David I'm tucked up in bed!! With a snoring two year old, who visited earlier!! Such a glamorous life I lead
412901/03/2016, 21:36 - D Rouse: So I'll make it quick c1/2 fracture
413001/03/2016, 21:36 - A Collins: Aww Dave ?
413101/03/2016, 21:36 - A Collins: Too good to me.
413201/03/2016, 21:36 - D Tooth: *vomited
413301/03/2016, 21:37 - A Collins: Aww. Hope he feels better!
413401/03/2016, 21:50 - L Boyle: I love that there are 135 people in the dept but you still manage to m find the time to message & let us know ????
413501/03/2016, 21:50 - J Malawana: As long as you haven't got a diseased piece
413601/03/2016, 21:51 - L J Davis: I was thinking that, Luke. 
4137Priorities, right? ??
413801/03/2016, 21:52 - L Boyle: Walk out to the waiting area & announce - "anyone who is not actively dying this evening...please. Fucking. Leave! Many thanks"
413901/03/2016, 21:52 - L J Davis: Poor Donna! I'm in bedroom with snoring 2yo & squiggly 5yo who I'm bribing to go to sleep. If he goes to sleep he gets a chocolate.
414001/03/2016, 21:53 - L Boyle: Lol! when does he get the chocolate, at breakfast or as a buccal preparation?
414101/03/2016, 21:55 - L J Davis: Well. It's interesting. He seems happy with the notion it'll be waiting on the bedside table for him in the morning. 
4142I'm amazed by this delay in reward. But it's acceptable to us both, so we're happy (at the moment).
414301/03/2016, 21:55 - L Boyle: He is an emotionally intelligent child
414401/03/2016, 21:55 - L Boyle: Bright spark like his mama then
414501/03/2016, 21:55 - L J Davis: Actually, he's autistic...
414601/03/2016, 21:56 - L Boyle: Interesting
414701/03/2016, 21:56 - L J Davis: So possibly more on the intelligent side/less on the emotionally ??
414801/03/2016, 21:56 - L Boyle: Perhaps!
414901/03/2016, 21:58 - L J Davis: He's like the absolute opposite of me in lots of ways. He needs routine (I can't do routines!), thinks in very concrete ways, very very active (!!!), & he's very affectionate.
415001/03/2016, 21:59 - L Boyle: My mum is a child psychologist so I've had a tutorial or two over the years..!
415101/03/2016, 21:59 - L Boyle: He sounds ace!
415201/03/2016, 22:00 - L Boyle: If you develop routine too no bad thing
415301/03/2016, 22:01 - L J Davis: Oh can I come & see your mum? Very hard to get support here & its working out what works that is hard...
415401/03/2016, 22:05 - L J Davis: Routine not so easy when it always has to be *exactly* the same. I made the mistake of popping into waitrose (our nearest shop) walking home the other day to get a birthday card. Ended up with Nathan & me sobbing on the floor at the end of a full scale meltdown... 
4155Makes the Bma look positively sane. & that's saying a lot ??
415601/03/2016, 22:09 - B Roberts: To make David feel better, I'm doing an e-learning module on fibromyalgia...
415701/03/2016, 22:13 - L J Davis: I ?? slightly weird chronic pain type things... Honest. I was the only o&g trainee who ever got excited about chronic pelvic pain...
415801/03/2016, 22:37 - B Roberts: I've learned that I don't believe it as a diagnosis, "however, the symptoms are very real to patients". That'll do as a cop-out.
415902/03/2016, 00:38 - D Rouse: Two hours latest I am going home
416002/03/2016, 00:38 - D Rouse: At my own expense as the only taxi company that GSTT use have an hour and a half wait for a taxi
416102/03/2016, 00:38 - D Rouse: I am broken
416202/03/2016, 00:51 - D Rouse: Just replied to Aaron's email
416302/03/2016, 01:12 - L Boyle: Clash of the historian Titans
416402/03/2016, 01:12 - L Boyle: David Starkey vs Simon Schama
416502/03/2016, 01:13 - L Boyle: The JDC equivalent
416602/03/2016, 01:19 - D Rouse: Nahhhh just a common miners son
416702/03/2016, 06:44 - A Sami: Ten years on, https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2016/02/yorkshire-ambulance-paramedics-win-pay-rise/
416802/03/2016, 08:04 - L J Davis: For those that engaged in the chocolate bribery, he did go to sleep. Then negotiated up by being very adorable and pointing out how he'd been really good and how he was fairly sure he was expecting a violet cream... Oh and could he take one for Mabel too, please?
416902/03/2016, 08:07 - J Malawana: Yannis you keep asking about the grassroots docs. The groups are run by Mari and mostly are north Thames groups. You should ask her to add you if you want to be involved as I am not an admin. The obvious one is called "LDN juniors media requests".
417002/03/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: I don't actually read it that often but they seem to run everything through there.
417102/03/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: After your comments I am going to talk to these guys more and try and get them in
417202/03/2016, 08:10 - J Malawana: But I think the narrative that has grown up about me somehow controlling everything is just people being mischievous. All I try and do is empower docs to do their thing and they then barely involve me. I tend to not want to be involved. The thing I am interested is the information from people in other organisations and collecting that info. That's what I spend most of my time trying to do and understand. Most of that info is shared.
417302/03/2016, 08:12 - J Malawana: I assumed these were all official north Thames groups as they involve the chair and most of Maris work is integral to the north Thames activity.
417402/03/2016, 08:13 - A Borbora: I saw David! Very good points but I was talking about the Liverpool Dockers! 
4175Only one way to sort it: chocolate fight!
417602/03/2016, 08:54 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ah johann i have not been clear it seems. Chat more sn. On way into wrk. P.s meeting UCH HR...i have a sense that they are gonna b difficult
417702/03/2016, 10:03 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
417802/03/2016, 10:07 - L J Davis: It snowed here when Mabel was born on 25th March 2013. Everyone was freezing, except me, for some reason...
417902/03/2016, 13:41 - M Redman: We should have a balint group for exec
418002/03/2016, 13:45 - A Collins: What's that?
418102/03/2016, 13:54 - L J Davis: It's an excellent idea melody!
418202/03/2016, 13:56 - C Sheridan: I'd be happy to run one - I do as part of the day job so maybe I could count it as  clinical time ??
418302/03/2016, 13:58 - M Redman: Balint groups today: what happens?
4184
4185The group members and the leader sit round in a circle and the leader (or one of the leaders if there are two) asks ‘who has a case?’  Someone volunteers to talk about a patient who has been on her mind. The problem may be that the patient has been emotionally disturbing or just difficult to understand or to engage in treatment. The group listens to the story without interrupting. When the presenter has finished, the leader invites the group to respond to what they have heard. Responses take various forms. There may be questions, advice to the doctor, emotional reactions induced by the patient’s story and speculations about what else might be going on. The group leader will gently discourage too much interrogation of the presenter, as the aim is to get the group members themselves to work on the case.  In a variation of the group process which originated in Germany and has become popular in the UK and The USA, the leader first asks if there are any simple questions about facts that need to be clarified ( e.g: how old is the patient?). When these are finished, he asks the presenter to ‘sit back’ i.e. to push his chair back a little and to remain silent for the next 20-30 minutes.
4186
4187This effectively prevents the group from asking any more questions and throws them back on their own resources. The presenter is allowed to have her say and respond to what she has heard when she is invited to join in again later.
418802/03/2016, 13:59 - M Redman: Benefits of Balint
4189
4190What does participation in a Balint group do for a group member?
4191
4192The first and most easily obtained benefit is to have a safe place where you can talk about interpersonal aspects of your work with your patients.  The group will be sympathetic and they will all have been in similar situations themselves. This is a great relief and usually means that when a dreaded patient turns up again he or she will seem less gruesome. We believe that the Balint group experience helps to avoid professional ‘burnout’. Are older Balint doctors still enjoying their work?   Try asking them!
4193
4194Secondly, the Balint group encourages doctor to see their patients as human beings who have a life and relationships outside the consulting room. They become more interesting to listen to and easier to help.
4195
4196Thirdly, the group members may gradually reach a deeper level of understanding of their patients’ feelings and their own.  They may realise that certain patients or emotions may resonate with what is going on in the own inner and outer lives.  This may be causing problems which the doctor can learn to avoid or even to turn to therapeutic advantage.
419702/03/2016, 13:59 - M Redman: http://balint.co.uk/about/introduction/
419802/03/2016, 14:06 - B Roberts: Melody, I already see this WhatsApp group as our Balint group! GPs ? Balint.
419902/03/2016, 14:19 - A Collins: This does sound rather like that.
420002/03/2016, 14:19 - A Collins: What does it stand for? Sounds a little like ball-lint which is a terrible "new boxers" problem...
420102/03/2016, 14:19 - M Redman: Balint was a psychotherapist
420202/03/2016, 14:19 - M Redman: Balint groups are confidential
420302/03/2016, 14:20 - A Collins: We're not great St confidential...
420402/03/2016, 14:20 - A Collins: *at
420502/03/2016, 14:29 - Z Greaves: Sounds like ALS in public health
420602/03/2016, 14:29 - Z Greaves: That's action learning sets (not advanced life support)
420702/03/2016, 14:33 - K Mohan: But balint sessions are normally led aren't they but action learning sets (not just used in PH) the idea is for the individual to find their own solutions through questioning.
420802/03/2016, 14:50 - C Sheridan: Not led really kitty, just facilitated.  The individual isn't looking for a solution per say, but reflects on what they've heard
420902/03/2016, 15:11 - Z Greaves: I think ALS is probably more solutions focused
421002/03/2016, 15:13 - B Roberts: He was Hungarian. Balint fact!
421102/03/2016, 15:46 - Z Greaves: Thanks Yannis ?? nice to be on the same page for a change
421202/03/2016, 16:02 - J Malawana: Yes. It was nice seeing that.
421302/03/2016, 16:03 - J Malawana: I am actually so heartened by how politically diverse exec is and yet how stuff like the fundamental issues we actually have so often found consensus.
421402/03/2016, 16:12 - C Sheridan: It really should be Balints' group. Mike takes all the credit but Enid helped him develop it too. Husband taking all the credit imagine that???
421502/03/2016, 18:07 - D Rouse: I am very fustrated by stuff
421602/03/2016, 18:07 - D Rouse: And my current email on narrative may demonstrate this
421702/03/2016, 18:07 - D Rouse: Please tell me if I am wrong
421802/03/2016, 18:08 - A Borbora: But keep policy on listserver as you've very well done David
421902/03/2016, 18:08 - D Rouse: I have
422002/03/2016, 18:08 - D Rouse: I am asking if I sound too mean
422102/03/2016, 18:08 - A Borbora: Have a cat as thanks 
4222??
422302/03/2016, 18:15 - M Redman: I don't think it's mean. Whilst you're obviously communicating with passion, there aren't any personal comments and they're answering questions on the thread with what you feel are the answers :)
422402/03/2016, 22:04 - M Redman: Harry/ Charlie... What's going on with ukfpo
422502/03/2016, 22:04 - M Redman: I can't find anything on their website or their Twitter and I've nit had any email announcement from them?
422602/03/2016, 22:05 - M Redman: Could you put explain what's happened on list?
422702/03/2016, 22:06 - M Redman: oh wait tom just has
422802/03/2016, 22:06 - H Carter: I will put something on list once I've contacted Derek gallen and KPS - which I'm doing now. I also need to update our own listservers as well so excuse the delay.
422902/03/2016, 22:07 - H Carter: But in short, not a clue.
423002/03/2016, 22:08 - M Redman: Okay  - thanks Harry! Hope you get some answers quickly
423102/03/2016, 22:08 - H Carter: Indeed. :)
423202/03/2016, 22:17 - A Collins: Consider my pizza fueled rant on the list server to be entirely supportive of you both Harry/Charlie. I'm simply pissed off that these people to whom we entrust not only the futures of our best and brightest but the recruitment to our National Health Service cannot perform a simple numerical sorting task. 
4233
4234Perhaps Rory could be given an abacus and take over LJ?
423502/03/2016, 23:04 - D Rouse: Erm I am being told I have broken camera by discussing I/a with a very angry bunch of eastern members
423602/03/2016, 23:04 - D Rouse: In the interests of ensuring all members know what I have said
423702/03/2016, 23:04 - D Rouse: I will just screenshot the conversation to exec
423802/03/2016, 23:06 - A Collins: I love a cheeky screenshot.
423902/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424002/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424102/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424202/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424302/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424402/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424502/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424602/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424702/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424802/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
424902/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425002/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425102/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425202/03/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425302/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425402/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425502/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425602/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425702/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425802/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
425902/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
426002/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
426102/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
426202/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
426302/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
426402/03/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
426502/03/2016, 23:14 - D Rouse: I had this conversation as there were increasingly angry members who are becoming disenfranchised with the bma. 
4266
4267They discuss with a lot of members. 
4268
4269If I have broken camera I hold my hands up but I do not believe I have
427002/03/2016, 23:15 - A Collier Looks like you did share some of the "in camera" discussion (the stuff about what the membership will tolerate in terms of IA). I think your rationale for sharing the info is understandable but you shouldn't have really shared it as it potentially sensitive.
427102/03/2016, 23:15 - D Rouse: Then I hold my hands up and await for consequences
427202/03/2016, 23:17 - A Collier I wouldn't worry too much.
427302/03/2016, 23:19 - D Rouse: Apologies if I have broken camera. I was doing what I thought was best to try and keep our members onside
427402/03/2016, 23:22 - A Collins: I think we should each have a named copy of David to share in pairs at the next JDC. That would stop this sort of thing from... Wait I think I've got this mixed up somewhere.
427502/03/2016, 23:23 - D Rouse: Anyway apologies if I have caused any issues
427602/03/2016, 23:24 - K Mohan: So I'm confused. The camera stuff was the survey results right? Isn't everything else now public domain?
427702/03/2016, 23:24 - L Boyle: WTF is going on here....??????
427802/03/2016, 23:24 - L Boyle: <Media omitted>
427902/03/2016, 23:24 - D Rouse: I have been told I have potentially broken camera
428002/03/2016, 23:24 - E McCourt: Ooo how did you do that Luke?!
428102/03/2016, 23:24 - A Collins: You've certainly broken Lukes camera roll
428202/03/2016, 23:25 - A Collins: (E McCourt: menu, group media)
428302/03/2016, 23:25 - D Rouse: And so given everything of late I am putting my hands up and saying. I am sorry if I have. I didn't think I had so in the interests of transparency I am
4284Sending a copy of what was said to exec
428502/03/2016, 23:25 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
428602/03/2016, 23:27 - A Borbora: Why is this not being discussed on listserver?
428702/03/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: Because I can't send photos on there
428802/03/2016, 23:27 - A Borbora: A ok
428902/03/2016, 23:27 - A Borbora: I'll let you off
429002/03/2016, 23:27 - A Borbora: ????????
429102/03/2016, 23:29 - A Collins: What's that, you'll let gin off with 4 cat photos? Is that like 4 hail Mary's?
429202/03/2016, 23:29 - A Collins: *him
429302/03/2016, 23:30 - A Borbora: Though of course the pics can be put on LS as a jpeg. 
4294
4295Now what was that about a drink....
429602/03/2016, 23:30 - A Borbora: Gin...
429702/03/2016, 23:30 - E McCourt: <Media omitted>
429802/03/2016, 23:30 - A Borbora: ??????????
429902/03/2016, 23:31 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
430002/03/2016, 23:35 - L Boyle: It just shoves them on into my camera roll
430102/03/2016, 23:38 - A Borbora: That's what they all say....
430202/03/2016, 23:38 - D Rouse: Anyway
430302/03/2016, 23:39 - A Sami: David, a brotherly hug. Anyone of us could have done it in a similar heated discussion.
430402/03/2016, 23:40 - K Mohan: I thankfully have stopped the photos going automatically into my photo stream. Otherwise there would be FAR TOO MANY BLOODY CATS.
430502/03/2016, 23:40 - K Mohan: Completely agree Amjad. David I think you did really well to calm them down and explain the issues clearly.
430602/03/2016, 23:41 - D Rouse: Thanks.
430702/03/2016, 23:42 - A Collins: I second what kitty and Amjad said. Apart from the cats. I like the cats.
430803/03/2016, 00:44 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
430903/03/2016, 00:45 - A Yassaee: David my gf wants to know if your cat is for sale
431003/03/2016, 01:01 - D Rouse: Blue is most definitely not for sale. James my other half would murder me in my sleep.
431103/03/2016, 01:01 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
431203/03/2016, 01:01 - D Rouse: He is amazing though
431303/03/2016, 01:01 - D Rouse: British blue.
431403/03/2016, 01:08 - A Yassaee: Look at those cheeks
431503/03/2016, 02:02 - L Boyle: I've read through those & David I don't think you've done anything wrong - in fact you handled people who were being just downright rude really well - if they'd taken that attitude with me I'd just have said 'goodnight' (or worse), but by the end of your convo they seemed happier with the rationale!
4316
4317I'm not sure how the introduction of BMA jargon to the discussion from Darshan was intended to help matters, in fact it just disenfranchises ordinary members who don't feel connected enough with JDC.
4318You didn't leak/break rules re in camera...let's focus on the objective & leave it to others to fret about the minutiae of internal BMA standing orders that the members don't understand or frankly give a shit about. We take ourselves too seriously sometimes.
431903/03/2016, 02:09 - L Boyle: 'In camera' isn't BMA specific jargon ofc & we must be mindful that it is important re leaks etc, but deliberately reminding the ordinary non-activist member (burnt before & remaining deeply sceptical of the BMA) that JDC is withholding info from them, makes us look elitist & is unhelpful. I think that's what I'm trying to say.
432003/03/2016, 06:33 - Z Greaves: Don't think I knew what in camera meant pre Bma
432103/03/2016, 08:19 - L J Davis: Amazing coverage of GP concerns on gmb this morning. Finally!
432203/03/2016, 08:22 - M Redman: I didn't know what camera meant until at least one - maybe two - years of bma involvement
432303/03/2016, 08:22 - D Tooth: Missed it ljd will try and see later
432403/03/2016, 08:27 - L J Davis: They made it 'top story'; 1:10 surgeries at risk of closure, 1:5 financially at risk, 48% of surgeries with a GP retiring/leaving... Chaand doing his very calm but caring media thing...
432503/03/2016, 10:28 - L Boyle: The judiciary use the term a lot.
432603/03/2016, 10:45 - A Yassaee: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-s-confrontation-with-junior-doctors-derailed-the-nhs-own-work-to-deliver-seven-day-a6908251.html
4327
4328In case anyone hasn't seen
432903/03/2016, 13:02 - A Borbora: David I don't think it's that big a deal so don't worry. It is always difficult to know how much to say when confronted with a difficult situation. While it getting out we can't afford more than a few days IA a month isn't ideal I suspect the government will have worked this out by themselves. I guess this (and your admirably open response) shows us all how easy it is to let slip during informal chat! 
4330
4331Just one point, maybe my memory is failing, JDC didn't decide on 48hrs. JDC decided to escalate from 24hrs and it would be emergency care but I don't think we ever settled on 48?
433203/03/2016, 14:32 - D Tooth: Yes I think the preparedness group or the other chose the time
433303/03/2016, 14:58 - Z Greaves: Is it news that the details of contract are coming out on the 13th or did we already know that?
433403/03/2016, 15:01 - K Mohan: where did you hear that zoe
433503/03/2016, 15:04 - Z Greaves: The HR lead for our LET - I cornered her in the corridor and commiserated about how difficult this contract was making her job in the hope of gaining other information for local protest - that was just a bonus
433603/03/2016, 15:04 - K Mohan: sneaky zoe. :)
433703/03/2016, 15:07 - Z Greaves: ??
433803/03/2016, 15:11 - Z Greaves: I always thought that handling your HR staff should be a core competency for foundation :P
433903/03/2016, 16:16 - A Borbora: Yes they've got a meeting then 
4340I'm tapping up a few contacts to spill the details they get
434103/03/2016, 18:04 - T Crocker-Buque: Any further update on the ukfpo stuff? It's on the front page of the Grauniad website
434203/03/2016, 18:06 - A Collins: On an unrelated note, from where does the name Grauniad arise?
434303/03/2016, 18:10 - T Crocker-Buque: From Private Eye, mocking the fact that in times gone by The Guardian's proofreading was not always that great, leading to frequent spelling errors in articles.
434403/03/2016, 18:10 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Damn u beat me tim!!!!
434503/03/2016, 18:11 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Was a perfect piece of leftie trivia from adam!
434603/03/2016, 19:16 - T Crocker-Buque: ??
434703/03/2016, 19:16 - T Crocker-Buque: But anyway, back to the UKFPO..?
434803/03/2016, 19:17 - L Boyle: It amazes me that Derek remains in post...what a totally incompetent fool!
434903/03/2016, 19:18 - A Yassaee: Tbh if you had the skills to do that job well, why of all the posts in medical training would you want that one?
435003/03/2016, 19:21 - J Malawana: Aww. I like Derek.
435103/03/2016, 19:21 - H Carter: It's in the guardian. We chose not to comment further. The guardian did ask.
435203/03/2016, 19:22 - L Boyle: I'm sure he's lovely, I've only spoken to him once - but he & his colleagues can't manage to do the simplest of things :(
435303/03/2016, 19:22 - H Carter: But they just took my email that I published.
435403/03/2016, 19:23 - H Carter: And we called the UKFPO. They explained the cock up but I'm not going to disclose that because they asked us not too. Essentially, we judged that it didn't require kicking up anymore of a fuss as the guardian already had the email. Also - they released the results today, I think.
435503/03/2016, 19:26 - J Malawana: Where's the guardian link?
435603/03/2016, 19:27 - H Carter: It's somewhere on the front of their website.
435703/03/2016, 19:27 - J Malawana: Could find it.
435803/03/2016, 19:27 - J Malawana: Post it here if can
435903/03/2016, 19:27 - J Malawana: Couldn't
436003/03/2016, 19:28 - A Yassaee: Final-year medical students face delay to job offers
4361
4362http://gu.com/p/4h9fx?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp
436303/03/2016, 19:28 - A Yassaee: This?
436403/03/2016, 19:29 - H Carter: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/mar/03/final-year-medical-students-face-delay-to-job-offers
436503/03/2016, 23:19 - K Mohan: Guys, does anyone know the FB group admin
436603/03/2016, 23:19 - K Mohan: Can we get the three regional events pinned to the top of the page?
436703/03/2016, 23:23 - A Collins: You can only pin one thing at a time, but you could make a post detailing all 3? (I don't know that admin
436803/03/2016, 23:23 - K Mohan: i don't think that's true is it?
436903/03/2016, 23:24 - K Mohan: we pin loads of stuff
437003/03/2016, 23:26 - E McCourt: At a 30s glance, it looks like there is just one pinned post on Strjdc. At least there is only one on the mobile site.
437103/03/2016, 23:27 - E McCourt: Maybe you can only see one on a phone?
437203/03/2016, 23:59 - M Redman: eh so ukfpo have released now?!
437304/03/2016, 00:00 - K Mohan: guys, is conference full? about to send out an all member email to our region.
437404/03/2016, 00:34 - H Carter: Hi Melody. Yes final years have now received their allocation.
437504/03/2016, 00:40 - L Boyle: Conference not full actually
437604/03/2016, 00:40 - L Boyle: Go ahead
437704/03/2016, 00:40 - K Mohan: great - thanks luke
437804/03/2016, 06:55 - Z Greaves: I know the admin for fbGoD - I've only ever been able to pin one post on NRJDC - if you send me what you want pinned I'll forward to Rosie xx
437904/03/2016, 06:57 - A Collins: You can only pin one post at a time on an fb group unless they've changed it in the last month or so
438004/03/2016, 07:18 - A Borbora: I can only pin one post on their Mersey BMA group. When you pin another the first unpins and slides down
438104/03/2016, 07:57 - K Mohan: Ok thanks. Zoe could we post Stuart's event in wilmslow as it is next week.,
438204/03/2016, 07:57 - K Mohan: It's this one:
4383
4384https://www.facebook.com/events/454843154712217/
438504/03/2016, 08:23 - Z Greaves: Fab, have messaged her will let you know x
438604/03/2016, 08:24 - K Mohan: Thank you Zoe.
438704/03/2016, 09:08 - M Redman: Is Terence Stephenson a fellow of the royal college of everything bc of his role in gmc, or was that already his situation?
438804/03/2016, 09:22 - L J Davis: I fucking *hate* world book day.
438904/03/2016, 09:23 - L J Davis: Third outfit. Upset small person. Not even the right day (it was yesterday, except here)
439004/03/2016, 12:47 - D Rouse: What's up with outfit
439104/03/2016, 20:51 - D Tooth: We had it today too ljd
439204/03/2016, 20:52 - A Yassaee: He had all the letters when he chaired the academy
439304/03/2016, 20:52 - A Yassaee: He's actually a bit of a lad when he wants to be
439404/03/2016, 20:55 - J Malawana: Terrence is generally ok. He isn't as stooge like as some. It's interesting they are now emailing everyone. Seems like this campaign has really had an impact on how lots of bits of the profession will communicate in the future.
439504/03/2016, 20:56 - J Malawana: If they're honorary though you aren't really meant to use them.
439604/03/2016, 20:57 - A Yassaee: Yeah he said that when he gave me a chat on puffing up your CV
439704/03/2016, 20:57 - A Yassaee: I think he just doesn't care
439804/03/2016, 21:21 - L J Davis: Donna; what did you go as? In the end Nathan was saucepan man...
439904/03/2016, 21:22 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
440004/03/2016, 21:22 - D Tooth: What time is the last leg!
440104/03/2016, 21:43 - A Collier Does anyone know who "Grassroots Jnr Dr" is on Facebook? I was going to add them as a friend (I've had a request) but the paranoid part of me thinks it could be a journalist.
440204/03/2016, 21:46 - D Tooth: Tim reckons it's ok. See Listserver
440304/03/2016, 21:47 - A Collier Thanks Donna
440404/03/2016, 21:47 - A Yassaee: How did that conversation go?
440504/03/2016, 21:48 - A Yassaee: "Are you a journalist?"
4406"No...."
4407"Oh okay then"
440804/03/2016, 21:48 - D Tooth: Lol! Not sure Arrash, good point
440904/03/2016, 21:48 - A Collier Either way I see no reason to add them so I'll ignore it for now.
441004/03/2016, 22:03 - K Mohan: I've ignored the request for now. 
4411
4412Taryn seems to know who they are- I presume it's someone we know in cognito.
441304/03/2016, 22:27 - J Malawana: Kitty are you watching last leg? Turns out it worked :-)
441404/03/2016, 22:33 - M Redman: Lol arrash's rare contributions are either hilarious gems or give me insight into how many big wigs have given him career chats
441504/03/2016, 22:33 - K Mohan: Yeah I'm watching. :))
441604/03/2016, 22:33 - M Redman: What worked?
441704/03/2016, 22:34 - K Mohan: Nothing. Would we do anything :)
441804/03/2016, 22:36 - M Redman: Sounds interesting... I must know!!!!
441904/03/2016, 22:36 - K Mohan: Nothing's happened... Yet.
442004/03/2016, 22:37 - K Mohan: And when anything happens, it's nothing to do with us.
442104/03/2016, 22:37 - E McCourt: Is Johann speaking in code?
442204/03/2016, 22:37 - E McCourt: But a code only he understands?
442304/03/2016, 22:37 - E McCourt: And Kitty. Maybe.
442404/03/2016, 22:40 - D Tooth: Please tell me cos I'm off to bed
442504/03/2016, 22:41 - K Mohan: I'll video any relevant bits on my phone, Donna.
442604/03/2016, 22:41 - A Collier Enough people speak in code on our committee without you folks starting, and as I only listen to radio 4 could someone tell us?
442704/03/2016, 22:41 - M Redman: Donna won't be able to sleep!
442804/03/2016, 22:41 - A Collier Hooray for Kitty
442904/03/2016, 22:41 - K Mohan: Nothing so far.
443004/03/2016, 22:41 - K Mohan: Huh?
443104/03/2016, 22:41 - M Redman: I'm waiting at a bus stop developing frost bite. Warm me with some humour
443204/03/2016, 22:41 - J Malawana: Kitty was mean to the Secretary of State.
443304/03/2016, 22:42 - J Malawana: Kitty is a total cat
443404/03/2016, 22:42 - K Mohan: I have been at work all day. Leave me out of this.
443504/03/2016, 22:42 - M Redman: Jeeves dedicated this emoji to her ??
443604/03/2016, 22:42 - J Malawana: Kitty may have found out where Jeremy was going to be at a specific time today.
443704/03/2016, 22:42 - J Malawana: It's all kitty.
443804/03/2016, 22:42 - K Mohan: Oi.
443904/03/2016, 22:43 - J Malawana: Mi6. It was kitty. Arrest her.
444004/03/2016, 22:43 - M Redman: Hahahhahahaga
444104/03/2016, 22:47 - D Tooth: Ooh I'm intrigued
444204/03/2016, 22:53 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
444304/03/2016, 22:54 - E McCourt: "An angry junior doctor" Mohan??...
444404/03/2016, 22:54 - J Malawana: That was truly brilliant.
444504/03/2016, 22:55 - D Tooth: What, what
444604/03/2016, 22:55 - B Roberts: Ha, was that really you, Kittler?!
444704/03/2016, 22:55 - A Borbora: I recently found out what memes are
444804/03/2016, 22:55 - D Tooth: What did kitty do next?!
444904/03/2016, 22:55 - A Borbora: Thinking of getting into them
445004/03/2016, 22:55 - J Malawana: Don't mess with the Mohan....
445104/03/2016, 22:58 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
445204/03/2016, 23:01 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
445304/03/2016, 23:01 - D Tooth: Kitty why are you not laughing to that!! Did you mute yourself? 
4454Out of interest where was he
445504/03/2016, 23:01 - J Malawana: That was just sooooo goof
445604/03/2016, 23:01 - J Malawana: Good
445704/03/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: It was really hard not to laugh. I'm not sure why I get the credit/blame/definitely  blame for that...
445804/03/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: :)
445904/03/2016, 23:03 - M Redman: Omd omdomdomd
446004/03/2016, 23:03 - M Redman: SOOOOO FUNNY
446104/03/2016, 23:08 - J Malawana: Poor Jeremy
446204/03/2016, 23:09 - D Tooth: Johann don't you go soft over your term!!
446304/03/2016, 23:09 - J Malawana: Lol
446404/03/2016, 23:10 - J Malawana: I don't actually feel anger towards Jeremy. I just feel sorry for him
446504/03/2016, 23:10 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
446604/03/2016, 23:10 - J Malawana: But that caused other problems. Apparently he found that more insulting when I said that in an interview. I was trying to be empathic :-)
446704/03/2016, 23:11 - J Malawana: So funny.
446804/03/2016, 23:11 - D Rouse: OMG KITTY
446904/03/2016, 23:11 - D Rouse: is that you bugeling
447004/03/2016, 23:11 - D Rouse: Or did you just organise it
447104/03/2016, 23:11 - D Rouse: OMG kitty
447204/03/2016, 23:12 - J Malawana: Diva that's what I didn't want to tell you this morning.
447304/03/2016, 23:12 - J Malawana: :-).
447404/03/2016, 23:12 - D Rouse: You didn't tell me kitty was the angry doctor
447504/03/2016, 23:13 - J Malawana: I couldn't be sure you wouldn't help yourself
447604/03/2016, 23:13 - D Rouse: Kitty did you know where he would be because you work in the department of health
447704/03/2016, 23:13 - D Rouse: Leaking information to them from Jdc ;-)
447804/03/2016, 23:13 - K Mohan: Erm no.
447904/03/2016, 23:13 - D Rouse: You a spy kitty
448004/03/2016, 23:13 - K Mohan: Lol.
448104/03/2016, 23:13 - K Mohan: That was definitely not.
448204/03/2016, 23:13 - D Rouse: 00-Mo
448304/03/2016, 23:13 - K Mohan: (How I found out)..
448404/03/2016, 23:13 - J Malawana: I can confirm that definitely wasn't the way kitty found out.
448504/03/2016, 23:13 - D Rouse: Haha
448604/03/2016, 23:14 - K Mohan: Oi. Blabber mouth Malawana.
448704/03/2016, 23:14 - J Malawana: Lol
448804/03/2016, 23:14 - J Malawana: But you actually didn't.
448904/03/2016, 23:14 - J Malawana: So that was true.
449004/03/2016, 23:14 - D Rouse: Lol
449104/03/2016, 23:15 - J Malawana: I am still laughing.
449204/03/2016, 23:16 - K Mohan: I know. It was so much better than I thought it could be.
449304/03/2016, 23:19 - D Rouse: Kitty is so well connected
449404/03/2016, 23:20 - D Rouse: Wish could find that flyer
449504/03/2016, 23:20 - D Rouse: Of kitty
449604/03/2016, 23:20 - K Mohan: No.
449704/03/2016, 23:20 - K Mohan: Just no.
449804/03/2016, 23:21 - L J Davis: It was him needing to do a 3point turn that made me laugh...
449905/03/2016, 11:20 - J Malawana: https://communities.bma.org.uk/bmaspace/b/weblog/archive/2016/02/29/a-challenging-but-privileged-adventure
450005/03/2016, 11:46 - K Mohan: Nice one Melo. :)
450105/03/2016, 11:48 - K Mohan: So I just heard that Dan Poulter was spotted dancing to "DJ Ironik" in Hastings - last night I think.
450205/03/2016, 11:48 - K Mohan: Lol.
450305/03/2016, 11:48 - J Malawana: Nice
450405/03/2016, 13:01 - M Redman: Lol kit has all this insider knowledge!
450505/03/2016, 13:01 - A Collins: Probs cos she was dancing with him. Ironikally
450605/03/2016, 13:02 - A Collins: Ironkitally?
450705/03/2016, 13:05 - K Mohan: Nope I was at home watching the last leg yesterday. Not guilty.
450805/03/2016, 13:05 - K Mohan: Especially for Adam...
450905/03/2016, 13:05 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
451005/03/2016, 13:08 - J Malawana: Kitty is always guilty.
451105/03/2016, 13:08 - J Malawana: She was born guilty
451205/03/2016, 13:09 - A Collins: Mmmmmm jealous. Can I get some delivered?.
451305/03/2016, 13:09 - J Malawana: Nat silvey is tweeting me...
451405/03/2016, 13:09 - K Mohan: Shush now, Yoyo.
451505/03/2016, 13:10 - K Mohan: Awesome.
451605/03/2016, 13:24 - M Redman: I'm really worried that people are campaigning for council with slogans about things related to jdc not council
451705/03/2016, 13:26 - D Rouse: Nothing. Can do about it mels
451805/03/2016, 13:29 - A Collins: Also, may exclude some of the more single issue folk quite effectively?
451905/03/2016, 13:32 - K Mohan: M Redman: Like which slogan?
4520
4521David: what does Mels mean?
4522
4523Adam: no idea what you mean.
452405/03/2016, 13:33 - D Rouse: Mels was short for melody kit
452505/03/2016, 13:43 - A Collins: I mean that the grass roots candidates that we thought might run for council and not engage well over all (I have heard this as a concern from members of Exec if I recall rightly) might be the ones more likely to campaign for council solely on the basis of wanting to change things for Jr docs, and that may win them fewer votes than people who genuinely have an interest in the running of the whole association?
452605/03/2016, 13:46 - M Redman: Do you mean that may win them more votes? Yes that's my concern Adam.
452705/03/2016, 13:48 - M Redman: Kitty - things about eporfolio for example ??
452805/03/2016, 13:49 - D Tooth: i agree with adam they may alienate those who don't care about juniors...although we have a lot of juniors at present
452905/03/2016, 13:56 - A Collins: No I meant less from the other BOPs
453005/03/2016, 13:59 - A Collier So long as a candidate gets enough votes it doesn't matter who they get them from!
453105/03/2016, 14:00 - A Collier Some of the campaigns are in my view misguided but as an opposing candidate I probably would say that wouldn't i?
453205/03/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: I wouldn't worry. The biggest barrier to juniors ever getting elected is getting the vote out.
453305/03/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: Juniors who get elected usually have done so be issue of the minimum requirement rule.
453405/03/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: If you can mobilise any votes that helps.
453505/03/2016, 14:47 - D Tooth: when do we get the papers?
453606/03/2016, 09:15 - K Mohan: Hamed Khan is on daily politics today "batting for junior doctors".
453706/03/2016, 09:50 - D Tooth: Johann, just to check, you have remembered its Mother's Day, right?
453806/03/2016, 10:07 - K Mohan: Lol.
453906/03/2016, 10:07 - K Mohan: Poor Sarah.
454006/03/2016, 10:08 - D Tooth: Sorry I just remembered the Valentine's Day effort!!
454106/03/2016, 10:08 - D Tooth: Or should I say has Noah remembered !!
454206/03/2016, 12:06 - D Rouse: Hahaha
454306/03/2016, 12:06 - J Malawana: I got a card.
454406/03/2016, 12:30 - L J Davis: You're not a mother, Johann
454506/03/2016, 12:30 - L J Davis: Despite the 'bustiness'
454606/03/2016, 14:17 - M Redman: Did we get any further 're badges for those at work on IA days?
454706/03/2016, 14:19 - A Borbora: I spoke to Henrietta. No plans at present but will be looked at for future rounds. Suggested wearing the current badges etc for now.
454806/03/2016, 14:22 - A Collins: Moving away from Johann's bust, can I use you lot as a sounding board for an idea? 
4549
4550How would people feel if SLE's were a 2 way process? 
4551
4552Instead of me just filling one in and sending it to my senior who then ticks it off without any feedback, and with no benefit to them, could we re imagine them as 
4553
4554Trainee
4555Title:
4556Hx:
4557Reflect (on doing):
4558Feedback (on teaching) 
4559
4560Trainer (I.e. More senior trainee or cons) 
4561Reflect (on teaching):
4562Feedback (on doing): 
4563 
4564That wouldn't be much longer than at present and we could push for the feedback to somehow magic itself into the trainer's portfolio/revalidation? 
4565
4566We could even debate the merits of minimum numbers for trainer trainees, although I appreciate not all jobs have as many Junior trainees as others... 
4567
4568I'm considering submitting this as a conference motion, rather than jdc business, before anyone says listserver.
456906/03/2016, 14:24 - A Collier All of the portfolios work slightly differently and I think that's why I'm struggling to understand your motion. I have no objection in principle to two way feedback.
457006/03/2016, 14:28 - A Collins: Perhaps I'm just talking about FY portfolios at the moment then. Essentially for workplace based assessments (called to us Supervised Learning Events) we submit a form explaining what we did, and with a brief reflection, and usually it just gets ticked off by a senior as not fabricated, but rarely do we get helpful supplementary comments (although of course we've had them verbally at the time so that's usually ok) but certainly the senior doesn't get anything out of the exchange, and if it was 2 way feedback I wonder if that would contribute to the oft ignored "the doctor as a teacher"  aspect of professional development. I don't want to make lots of work for seniors, but I don't think it would. They could always choose to ignore it I suppose
457106/03/2016, 14:29 - A Collier I suppose I'm just suggesting that the motion should be carefully worded to avoid the problems
457206/03/2016, 14:30 - A Collier Our college portfolio requires both trainee and trainer to sit together to compete the portfolio assessment, scoring, comments and reflection. The assessments I complete are logged within the "assessments supervised" section of my portfolio.
457306/03/2016, 14:31 - A Collier I should add that our portfolio is far from perfect and my summary is what "should" happen rather than what does happen.
457406/03/2016, 14:33 - A Collins: Ah ok, so this perhaps exists already in some form for the more involved trainee portfolios, but is lacking in the Foundation equivalent.
457506/03/2016, 14:52 - A Collins: Haha
457606/03/2016, 14:57 - L J Davis: Has anyone got documentary evidence of how employers are calculating deductions for IA?
457706/03/2016, 14:59 - L J Davis: Just wondering if there's a discrepancy btw 1/31th for f/t and how it's being calculated for ltft...
4578This is prompted by a letter from a local trust...
457906/03/2016, 15:03 - A Borbora: Gareth is looking into it.
458006/03/2016, 15:04 - A Borbora: The last advice we had was that LTFT should be pro rata as they don't accrue pay over the same number of days as FT
458106/03/2016, 15:15 - L J Davis: You'd expect that a ltft day would equal a ft day? It should be fairly easy to do a chart of what we expect deductions to be, shouldn't it?
458206/03/2016, 15:26 - A Borbora: Possibly not. If a full timer accrues salary at 1/365 (although last advice was it was 1/260) then a 50% person will accrue at 1/184 (or 1/130). NHSE may not know this so some LTFT people might actually benefit from being deducted at 1/365 (or 1/260). Hourly deductions would be the same for both, as the hourly rate doesn't change. 
4583Will let us all know what Gareth says.
458406/03/2016, 15:27 - A Borbora: Edit: they probably do know but can't be bothered doing the work so LTFT people may benefit from their laziness
458506/03/2016, 17:13 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
458606/03/2016, 17:52 - L J Davis: Yummy!
4587
4588At the moment I'm enjoying the waiting room of Nbt a&e. Stabbed my eye with a winter flowering jasmine. Tim can see I've scratched it with fluroscene, but no slit-lamp at home...
458906/03/2016, 17:52 - L J Davis: Can you send me chocolate?
459006/03/2016, 17:52 - L J Davis: Before I get attacked by someone with a green needle? Arghh!!!
459106/03/2016, 18:02 - K Mohan: I'm currently teaching on line to Somaliland.
459206/03/2016, 18:02 - K Mohan: The students keep calling me "dear teacher"
459306/03/2016, 18:07 - E McCourt: Woop! Love my Somaliland students (I'm very possessive)
459406/03/2016, 18:08 - K Mohan: They are awesome. They do say some funny things.
459506/03/2016, 18:09 - E McCourt: Try doing breaking bad news with them...
459606/03/2016, 18:11 - A Sami: Oh no! I hope it it can be removed without a green needle. Saying this though, I have no idea how my patients allow me with that needle near their eye!
459706/03/2016, 18:11 - K Mohan: One of them just told me that plants have tb.
459806/03/2016, 18:23 - L J Davis: 9 banded armadillos have leprosy. Sometimes.
4599Plants just have a thing against my eye. If I get TB from this plant related injury I'll be very pissed off
460006/03/2016, 18:26 - L J Davis: Google is confused by my search "TB in plant"
4601It suggested "teachers on TV" instead.
460206/03/2016, 18:37 - A Sami: Google a rash instead. You might get Jeremy Hunt's picture!
4603
4604Kitty, nice work. I always wanted to do something similar. How did you do it? Skype? Webinar? Something else?
460506/03/2016, 18:41 - A Yassaee: This NHS reinstatement bill - are people actually in favour of that specific piece of legislation or is it more to have a debate on the future of the NHS in parliament?
460606/03/2016, 18:49 - K Mohan: amjad - it's done through the medicineafrica platform over the internet. the challenge is that it's all done by typing rather than speaking.
460706/03/2016, 18:49 - K Mohan: (But on the upside that gives you time to look up difficult questions). :)
460806/03/2016, 18:50 - K Mohan: ellen may know more about how to get involved but i'm doing my teaching through the "kings thet somaliland partnership" so let me know if you want some links and i'll put you in touch with max the coordinator
460906/03/2016, 18:51 - A Collier Arrash, I think they're in about of that specific piece of legislation. They're pretty fixated on it.
461006/03/2016, 18:52 - L J Davis: Arrash; are you asking for our view or ppl more generally?
461106/03/2016, 18:52 - A Borbora: Don't we have policy in favour? It was debated at the last ARM.
461206/03/2016, 18:52 - A Collier Actually Aaron you're right we do.
461306/03/2016, 18:53 - L J Davis: It's the Allyson pollock thing isn't it?
461406/03/2016, 18:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Uh yeah!!!!!
461506/03/2016, 18:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Controversial cos it half passed and half didnt
461606/03/2016, 18:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Bma approved it as policy
461706/03/2016, 18:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: But
461806/03/2016, 18:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Wouldnt 'promote'
461906/03/2016, 18:54 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The pollock bill unlikely (almost 100%) to pass at this reading
462006/03/2016, 18:54 - Y Gourtsouyannis: But its about the long game r.e it becoming policy next gov
462106/03/2016, 18:55 - L J Davis: Wasn't it the technicality of just changing everything back (wholesale reorganisation) that was the issue in the debate?
462206/03/2016, 18:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ita actually pretty controversial within some wings of the labour party
462306/03/2016, 18:55 - A Collier Won't pass? Don't be so hasty, I hear that it's going to be cold this week...hell might freeze over.
462406/03/2016, 18:55 - L J Davis: You tease, collier!
462506/03/2016, 18:56 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Collier trolling! Whats going on!
462606/03/2016, 18:56 - A Collier In my opinion the obsession with the reinstatement bill is stifling other sensible lobbying that could be done to prevent the dismantling of the NHS
462706/03/2016, 18:56 - L J Davis: ^this
462806/03/2016, 18:56 - A Yassaee: Andrew's point.
462906/03/2016, 18:57 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Fair view
463006/03/2016, 18:57 - Y Gourtsouyannis: But dont agree
463106/03/2016, 18:58 - L J Davis: Plus I have a horrible feeling we're stuck being blue for at least a government to come.
463206/03/2016, 18:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Eatin dimsum so can't write my usual essay without ruining my girlfriends meal
463306/03/2016, 18:58 - L J Davis: :(
463406/03/2016, 18:58 - A Yassaee: Some aspects are politically impossible and the sentiment could be far better achieved with some more pragmatic legislation.
463506/03/2016, 18:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Interested to hear tho rme alternative strategies andrew
463606/03/2016, 18:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: And areash
463706/03/2016, 18:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Arrash
463806/03/2016, 18:59 - A Yassaee: I think the bill being debating and heavily amended would be a positive outcome
463906/03/2016, 18:59 - A Collier I've actually just had an exchange with Allyson on this, I suggested pan-Union action needed on TTIP (or European competition legislation) and the response from the supporters of reinstatement bill was that unless it's pan-Union working on the reinstatement bill it's pointless.
464006/03/2016, 19:01 - L J Davis: I didn't understand the last bit, Andrew? They want only pan union work on reinstatement bill but not ttip?
464106/03/2016, 19:02 - A Collier Yep LJD you've understood that correctly.
4642
4643In related conversations I've been told that we need address wider competition legislation that is wider than TTIP is needed, I'm onboard with that but my attempts to discuss this are turned back to the reinstatement bill.
464406/03/2016, 19:02 - A Yassaee: Ultimately the bill aims to create positive population wide outcomes (rather than trust based outcomes), but is trying to implement it from a trust-by trust basis rather than what services the population can access. That doesnt make sense
464506/03/2016, 19:03 - A Yassaee: It's interested looking at the transatlantic and transpacific deals and how they are viewed differently by respective nations
464606/03/2016, 19:03 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Is andrew suggesting PAN-UNION ACTION!?
464706/03/2016, 19:04 - A Collier Yes I am. It makes sense when the issue directly affects us all.
464806/03/2016, 19:04 - A Yassaee: Union as in BMA?
464906/03/2016, 19:05 - A Collier Makes less sense (legally and strategically) when the issue is only tangentially related to the other groups of workers.
465006/03/2016, 19:05 - A Collier BMA plus other relevant unions
465106/03/2016, 19:06 - A Yassaee: We'll probably have a text copy of the deal leaked later this year
465206/03/2016, 19:07 - A Collier Can I put on record my utter joy at being asked to join every council campaign group going!
465306/03/2016, 19:07 - A Collier I love looking at photos of people I know giving speeches.
465406/03/2016, 19:08 - M Redman: Spoke at national shop stewards network Yorkshire conf yest and they were all over general union action.
465506/03/2016, 19:09 - M Redman: Yeah I'm not joining any council campaign groups
465606/03/2016, 19:09 - M Redman: For now anyway
465706/03/2016, 19:09 - M Redman: All for*
465806/03/2016, 19:10 - A Borbora: Could I ask this be shifted to the listserver please? It's an important topic? I think we need to revisit pan-Union activities
465906/03/2016, 19:11 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Defo
466006/03/2016, 19:13 - A Borbora: Go and eat your dinner!
466106/03/2016, 19:20 - L J Davis: Again with the info? I was in the year they accidentally published all our details...
466206/03/2016, 19:25 - L J Davis: It was mtas...
466306/03/2016, 19:30 - Z Greaves: Daft!
466406/03/2016, 19:31 - Z Greaves: At least oriel seems to have mostly worked this year!
466506/03/2016, 21:05 - Y Gourtsouyannis: P.s Given that the council election statements are available on the website are we allowed to share our individual statements?
466606/03/2016, 21:05 - Y Gourtsouyannis: http://www.bma.org.uk/councilelections
466706/03/2016, 21:07 - M Redman: I think so just not through bma channels?!
466806/03/2016, 21:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Of course
466906/03/2016, 21:14 - M Redman: Concur is telling me about TripIt Pro. Do any of you use it and do I need it in my life?
467006/03/2016, 21:23 - Z Greaves: I said no
467106/03/2016, 21:32 - A Collins: I'm using it. You don't need it
467206/03/2016, 21:33 - M Redman: Thanks Collins, total babe.
467306/03/2016, 21:35 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
467406/03/2016, 21:35 - J Malawana: Just for anyone that really wants to have some fun.
467506/03/2016, 21:35 - J Malawana: This is the quality of the people being put up currently by the Adam smith institute
467607/03/2016, 07:05 - L J Davis: How delightful!
467707/03/2016, 10:43 - A Collier Reading back through Sam Bowman's tweets from yesterday is disturbing. It's clear that from the moment the Sunday Politics show aired he sought to pick fights with any doctor who was tweeting about him, the show or the doctor that was on the show with him.
467807/03/2016, 10:44 - A Collier I don't think I've ever seen anyone on Twitter seek out arguments in such a deliberate way. He was clearly baiting his opponents into saying regrettable things.
467907/03/2016, 10:47 - A Collier The comment he made about the doctors mocking the mentally ill related to tweet which said "I feel sorry for you I really do. You need help. I know plenty of people who will listen."
468007/03/2016, 10:47 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I looked into this
468107/03/2016, 10:47 - Y Gourtsouyannis: There was also a comment r.e 'i smell personality disorder'
468207/03/2016, 10:48 - A Collier Clearly there is an inference that the tweeter was referring to mental illness but it's not clear and the is no suggestion anyone was mocking the mentally ill.
468307/03/2016, 10:48 - Y Gourtsouyannis: But it seems to be an AMERICAN doctor who wrote that
468407/03/2016, 10:48 - A Collier Ah, I didn't see the PD tweet
468507/03/2016, 10:49 - Y Gourtsouyannis: But frm what i can see definitely not a bma/british doc
468607/03/2016, 10:49 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Anyway
468707/03/2016, 10:50 - Y Gourtsouyannis: This is how the leading neoliberal thinktank in the world operates.
468807/03/2016, 10:50 - A Collier Don't tar all neoliberal think tanks with the same brush [i say with my tongue firmly in my cheek]
468907/03/2016, 10:52 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha. Of course not. Just the leading example of one!!we all have to quit arguing on social media with people who are specifically out to undermine us. I am sure that soon somebody is going to come up with a list of facts/paper debunking the adam smith institues claims....absolutely pointless
469007/03/2016, 10:53 - A Yassaee: The Adam Smith institute is the emperor's new clothes of think tanks
469107/03/2016, 11:09 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Indeed. Except that the entire establishment has been wearing those clothes for 20yrs
469207/03/2016, 11:30 - J Malawana: I have sent an email to the exec listserver I want you to all think about and get your teeth into
469307/03/2016, 13:09 - A Collins: Teeth thoroughly gotten in.
469407/03/2016, 13:14 - M Redman: What's timeline?
469507/03/2016, 13:15 - A Collins: Its about suggestions to take to jdc, so I guess by early next week?
469607/03/2016, 13:15 - M Redman: Okay cool taaaa
469707/03/2016, 13:37 - K Mohan: Johann can you clarify on the listserver what exactly you want us to answer?
469807/03/2016, 13:38 - A Collins: I thought it was clear ;)
469907/03/2016, 15:30 - K Mohan: When is the next JDC exec
4700meeting please?
470107/03/2016, 16:02 - Z Greaves: Yes it feels like we're overdue for one - considering we've had a JDC more recently than an exec meeting - makes it feel a bit redundant
470207/03/2016, 16:03 - E McCourt: 21 April
470307/03/2016, 16:04 - Z Greaves: Maybe Johann doesn't love us anymore ?? :( ??
470407/03/2016, 16:04 - Z Greaves: We'll have had at least 2 JDC meetings between exec meetings by then
470507/03/2016, 16:04 - Z Greaves: Or has exec devolved its authority to JDC?
470607/03/2016, 16:05 - Z Greaves: Does that mean we could fire JDC if we don't like their decisions - if not I must say it makes the whole relationship feel a little one sided
470707/03/2016, 16:05 - Z Greaves: Sorry I'm very bored playing with eons of data on excel :(
470807/03/2016, 16:06 - J Malawana: Lol. I just got scared about being accused of calling exec meetings given what seems to happen when I do
470907/03/2016, 16:07 - J Malawana: I think we need to have exec meetings but exec meetings when staff can attend limits our options and problem is without get accusations.
471007/03/2016, 16:07 - J Malawana: It's a horrible circular problem
471107/03/2016, 16:08 - Z Greaves: Could we not make recordings and staff could minute from those? It keeps accountability without tying our hands?
471207/03/2016, 16:11 - J Malawana: Could you suggest it on the exec listserver and I can take it up with The staff
471307/03/2016, 16:27 - Z Greaves: Done
471407/03/2016, 17:22 - D Rouse: Anyone looking materials
471507/03/2016, 17:23 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
471607/03/2016, 17:23 - D Rouse: Yannis is your man lol
471707/03/2016, 17:24 - A Collins: David spreading rumours about people's stash again!
471807/03/2016, 17:28 - K Mohan: So Bma house is only open until 5pm for materials today. Thought it was 830. I mean I know yannis has taken all the stuff but still...
471907/03/2016, 17:49 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha!!
472007/03/2016, 17:49 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Went this morning and picked up an order made a 2 wks ago!
472107/03/2016, 17:50 - Y Gourtsouyannis: They didnt give me all the badges i wantd tho
472207/03/2016, 17:50 - Y Gourtsouyannis: :-(
472307/03/2016, 17:50 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The badge drought needs to be sorted for next month
472407/03/2016, 19:14 - J Malawana: Harry, anyone, can you get the fpas application numbers? Apparently it's stark. Anyone seen them?
472507/03/2016, 20:18 - H Carter: What do you mean by that?
472607/03/2016, 20:24 - A Collins: Translation: 
4727Harrison, please could you send through the application number for the foundation programme this year. I've heard there is a significant change from last year, and I'd like to see for myself. Has anyone else seen them?
472807/03/2016, 20:32 - H Carter: Thanks. I thought you were referring to this data protection debacle. There isn't a significant change. 2015: 7086 were allocated on the primary list and 352 on the reserve list (all were allocated by June). 2016: 7112 have been allocated on the primary list and 99 on the reserve list (they will all get allocated in the next couple of months. Bottom line, no real change. Who is saying otherwise?
472907/03/2016, 20:35 - A Collins: Do we have data for where they applied to?
473007/03/2016, 20:37 - H Carter: I don't think so. I'm quite happy to ask the UKFPO.
473107/03/2016, 20:38 - H Carter: 94% got one of their top 5 choices compared to 90% last year. That doesn't really say much.
473207/03/2016, 21:24 - J Malawana: Ok. One of the college presidents said the application numbers had significantly changed and there are large gaps.
473307/03/2016, 21:26 - H Carter: They may have more specific information about the rates in England? The application figures I have shown don't indicate a significant change, overall.
473407/03/2016, 21:35 - D Rouse: Perhaps they've all applied for Wales Northern Ireland and Scotland?
473507/03/2016, 21:36 - A Borbora: NI is traditionally oversubscribed
473607/03/2016, 21:36 - A Yassaee: Derek Gallen said they anticipated 300 spaces
473707/03/2016, 21:37 - H Carter: The bigger picture shows an improvement on the oversubscription figures from last year. We knew that was going to happen.
473807/03/2016, 21:39 - A Borbora: So that's good? I know we've always been worried about the spectre, as yet unseen, of medical unemployment.
473907/03/2016, 21:39 - A Borbora: Any particular reasons, Harry?
474007/03/2016, 21:48 - H Carter: Yes, that is good. We were previously concerned about medical graduates being unemployed because there was an ever increasing number not being allocated on the primary list from 2011 onwards. Whilst we acknowledged it was unlikely that unemployment would actually happen, it was still unfair for some to not hear where they would work until as late as June and July in the last round of batch allocations completed in these months to place the reserve candidates. Indeed, it was up to HEE to create jobs for those on the reserve list. Whilst they always did, it required pressure from the UKFPO and HEE weren't obliged. We were also concerned that the policy agenda (which was touted as the solution) from HEE in particular, would have only moved the problem elsewhere; point of registration. One of the main reasons for why we have seen a drop in the oversub number is the increased cap on medical school admissions that has taken effect in Scotland (by 6%) and England (2%). We would need to granulate the headline figures if we wanted to draw any conclusions about application rates in England (if we're to say they took a hit because of the imposed contract).
474107/03/2016, 21:51 - A Borbora: Thanks, Harry. I'm glad the work of MSC has paid off!
474207/03/2016, 21:55 - J Malawana: Melo!! Heard you have graduated to the main conference venue and have Norman lamb now doing your event with you!! Please get someone to video it or something so we can tweet it etc!
474307/03/2016, 21:56 - M Redman: I know. LOL.
474407/03/2016, 21:57 - M Redman: They heard I was coming and well... I'm kind of a big deal.
474507/03/2016, 21:58 - J Malawana: I know!!!
474607/03/2016, 21:58 - M Redman: Room still max 70 tho
474707/03/2016, 21:58 - J Malawana: Ok seriously take a friend. Get it videoed. I want it uploaded onto YouTube straight away so can tweet the fuck out of it
474807/03/2016, 21:59 - M Redman: We've got a bunch
474907/03/2016, 21:59 - A Collier Are there still 70 liberal democrats?
475007/03/2016, 21:59 - A Collier Or is it a different conference?
475107/03/2016, 22:00 - J Malawana: Melo does York!
4752Melo does lamb! 
4753Melo does the lib dems!
475407/03/2016, 22:00 - J Malawana: They all have a ring
475507/03/2016, 22:02 - J Malawana: I will give you the equivalent advice Gareth gave me. Don't get photographed next to [clegg].
475607/03/2016, 22:03 - M Redman: LOL. There'll be no lib dem selfies
475707/03/2016, 22:03 - J Malawana: In my case it was [big len mclusky] although at one point it could have been [yannis]
475807/03/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: I did get a selfie with chuka ages ago and I think he thought I was going to tweet it. But actually wanted to send it to one of our staff who fancied him. Selfie city!!! But make sure you share them. I want to see.
475907/03/2016, 22:06 - K Mohan: "JDC chair tells exec member to tweet the fuck out of it".
476007/03/2016, 22:07 - A Yassaee: I actually really like Norman Lamb
476107/03/2016, 22:08 - M Redman: Lololol. I know. Johanns not received his usual 1000000 whatsapp messages, so we get more of his humour.
476207/03/2016, 22:16 - J Malawana: I have. But this was gold so felt the need to abuse melo for a bit
476308/03/2016, 09:26 - K Mohan: Are there any specific hashtags for tomorrow?
476408/03/2016, 16:51 - M Redman: #juniordoctorstrike
476508/03/2016, 16:51 - M Redman: Probably...
476608/03/2016, 16:51 - M Redman: This is for Johann...
476708/03/2016, 16:52 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
476808/03/2016, 16:52 - M Redman: And so it begins...
476908/03/2016, 16:57 - K Mohan: Yay. This is for you Melo.
477008/03/2016, 17:00 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
477108/03/2016, 17:06 - M Redman: LET'S GO
477208/03/2016, 17:07 - K Mohan: OK. I'M IN.
477308/03/2016, 17:09 - K Mohan: I have put this on the listserver already but would like a reply so also putting here:
4774
4775Have the documents (we were working on last week) been circulated or are they intended to be? Our reps are asking a lot of questions that would b answered by these documents - basically. why are we striking? 
4776
4777Also, are there any comms lines that are going to be circulated?
477808/03/2016, 19:30 - K Mohan: I may have accidentally created a sign which may or may not have accidentally had something that looked like a vagina on it.
477908/03/2016, 19:31 - K Mohan: Thankfully I've un-vaginaed it now.
478008/03/2016, 19:31 - B Roberts: Picture?
478108/03/2016, 19:32 - K Mohan: I sense it's a bad idea to post the photo here. My reference group (South thames) have confirmed it did indeed look like a vagina.
478208/03/2016, 19:33 - D Tooth: What was it supposed to be?
478308/03/2016, 19:34 - K Mohan: In for a penny, in for a pound. Here are the two versions...
478408/03/2016, 19:34 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
478508/03/2016, 19:34 - K Mohan: At least I have insight to realise what I'd done.
478608/03/2016, 19:35 - K Mohan: My south thames reps have voted and prefer the top version.
478708/03/2016, 19:36 - B Roberts: Ha ha, you're so right! With a cap in situ!
478808/03/2016, 19:38 - D Tooth: Don't want any little hunts!! One's enough!!
478908/03/2016, 19:39 - D Tooth: A Larc would be better of course
479008/03/2016, 20:15 - M Redman: Hahahhahahhagahahhaha
479108/03/2016, 20:46 - M Redman: I take your giant vagina and I raise you...
479208/03/2016, 20:46 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
479308/03/2016, 20:47 - A Collins: lol
479408/03/2016, 20:52 - A Yassaee: Im hurt
479508/03/2016, 21:00 - A Yassaee: Also is he meant to be ginger?
479608/03/2016, 21:04 - K Mohan: Does he have chickenpox?
479708/03/2016, 21:10 - M Redman: I asked that kitty. He's spotty apparently
479808/03/2016, 21:11 - M Redman: He has black hair arrasg
479908/03/2016, 21:11 - M Redman: Arrash
480008/03/2016, 21:36 - A Yassaee: I thought they were supposed to be freckles
480108/03/2016, 21:37 - M Redman: Why isn't anyone commenting on the unnaturally yellow shade of the Jr Dr's hair?!
480208/03/2016, 21:38 - M Redman: or the fact they have stick bodies?
480308/03/2016, 21:39 - A Yassaee: Maybe it's symbolic of how neoliberal austerity has left us seeking superficial qualities at the expense of basic sustenance.
480408/03/2016, 21:44 - M Redman: yaaaaah.
480508/03/2016, 21:44 - M Redman: Great pre strike video message Johann.
480608/03/2016, 21:47 - K Mohan: Could someone email me the comms messaging please?
480708/03/2016, 21:47 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Me too
480808/03/2016, 21:48 - B Roberts: http://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/other/the-nhs-a-lesson-in-politics-part-xi/ Maybe this should be it!
480908/03/2016, 22:09 - Y Gourtsouyannis: http://tinyurl.com/z39ystl
481008/03/2016, 22:10 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Guys myself and a few others have just knocked together a new petition
481108/03/2016, 22:10 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Going to post it on listserver
481208/03/2016, 22:10 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Given that the other one has been handed in we NEED  a new one
481308/03/2016, 22:11 - J Malawana: Here is the Comms messaging just in case.
481408/03/2016, 22:11 - J Malawana: Soundbite
4815 
4816We are taking action is because the government has chosen to impose a new contract rather than continue to negotiate it with the BMA.
4817 
4818The government say this is about a seven-day NHS when junior doctors already work around the clock, seven-day a week. If the government want more services then they need more doctors, nurses and funding to deliver it.
4819 
4820We want a contract that is good for patients, junior doctors and the NHS as a whole. We're sorry about the disruption to patients but we feel the government has left us no choice.
4821 
4822In addition to this, the government has:
4823 
4824- ignored our concerns about the impact of imposition on morale and the recruitment and retention crisis
4825 
4826- continued to imply (in Parliament and the press) that junior doctors do not work enough at weekends and that this is linked to excess patient deaths, despite no such causation ever having been demonstrated
4827 
4828- portrayed doctors as a block to necessary change, whereas it has refused to set out its vision for seven day services or invest in the concept of expanded services at a time when existing resources are stretched to their limit
4829 
4830- insisted that Saturday pay be the same as a weekday pay for many trainees  
4831 
4832- continued to claim a shift that finishes at 1.59am is not a night shift 
4833 
4834- failed to address the concerns we have raised about the impact on less than full time trainees
4835 
4836- failed to explain honestly the financial impact on trainees after transitional pay protection ends in 2019
4837 
4838- missed the opportunity to address recruitment difficulties in shortage specialities; their solutions (pay premia) would just be sticking plasters over underlying reasons for the current unattractiveness of certain specialties
4839We are simply asking that the government do three things:
4840 
48411) resume their negotiations with us on a properly funded junior doctors contract that will recruit and retain junior doctors rather than drive them away, thereby ensuring the long term  future of the NHS in England
48422) work with us to make employment and training in the NHS safe, attractive and motivating
48433) explain what seven day services means and how it will be funded
4844 
4845Q&A
4846 
4847Government say this is about creating a seven-day NHS
4848- Junior doctors already work weekends under the current contract - the contract isn’t roadblock to delivering a seven-day NHS
4849- The DH’s own figures show that more seven-day services will require 4,000 more doctors, 3,000 more nurses and £1bn extra funding each year
4850 
4851Mortality figures - 11,000 ‘excess deaths’
4852- Jeremy Hunt has been caught out time and again using crude and misleading figures
4853- If you want to talk about mortality rates then more people die on a Wednesday than a Sunday, so why aren’t we talking about Wednesdays?
4854- It is a far more complicated picture than the one the health sectary is trying to portray which is why he was challenged by the editor of the BMJ for his misuse of figures around weekend mortality and why leading experts called him out on using out of date figures on stroke survival rates
4855Judicial review
4856- In trying to push through these changes the government failed to give proper consideration to the impact this contract could have on junior doctors which is why we are considering taking legal action
4857- Due consideration is a requirement under the Equality Act and the government should have carried out an equality impact assessment
4858- The appalling lack regard for due process will only add to junior doctors’ sense of anger and disillusion towards the government’s shambolic handling of this situation
4859 
4860This is about Saturday pay
4861- This is about having fair pay, that recognises work done at evenings and weekends – junior doctors are not asking for more money
4862- The BMA put forward a proposal that would cost no more money but would recognise unsocial hours – the government rejected this, putting politics before reason
4863- Under the government’s plans half of junior doctors would receive no additional pay for Saturdays, we don’t believe that is fair
4864- The government’s changes would hit those doctors who work the most unsocial hours making it even harder to attract and keep junior doctors in areas of medicine where there are already staffing shortages such as emergency medicine, maternity care and paediatrics, to name but a few.
4865- It would undermine the delivery of care in the long term if we can’t recruit to these specialties
4866 
4867BMA responsible for perpetuating lots of misinformation
4868- Simply not true – tens of thousands of junior doctors have made up their own mind based on the facts that’s why 98% who voted in a BMA ballot taking this action
4869 
4870Talks
4871- Even with such a resounding mandate for industrial action, we have always been keen to avert industrial action which is why it was the BMA which first offered conciliatory talks – which the government initially rejected
4872- Our door remains open, we want to reach a negotiated agreement with the government
4873 
4874What is the BMA’s position on seven-day working?
4875- The BMA believes patients should have access to the same high quality of care, seven days a week and doctors already work around the clock delivering this
4876- If the government want to make more services available then they need to explain how they will staff and pay for them at a time when existing services are struggling to keep up with demand
4877 
4878Patient disruption
4879- Patients – the people we care for day in, day out – remain our first priority. Other doctors and NHS staff will continue to provide excellent care on the day
4880 
4881You are risking patients’ lives for your own greed
4882- Simply not true - patients are doctors’ first priority
4883- Patients will continue to receive excellent care on the day from other doctors and NHS staff
4884- We want to minimise disruption for patients which is why we have given trusts adequate notice so they can plan ahead
4885 
4886Patients will die
4887- Emergency care will continue to be provided
4888- Patients will continue to receive excellent care by senior doctors and other NHS staff
4889Can you guarantee that no patient will die? (on the day of IA taking place)
4890- I can understand why people may be anxious but my message to anyone listening is that if you need emergency care, you will get it
4891- Senior doctors and other NHS staff will be in work to provide high quality emergency care
4892This strike is politically motivated
4893- The suggestion this dispute is politically motivated is utterly untrue
4894- This is about changes to the junior doctor contract that unfair and would be bad for the delivery of care in the long term, which is why 98% of junior doctors who voted in a ballot supported taking this action
4895Doctors just don’t want to work weekends
4896- Doctors already work around the clock, seven days a week – we want our patients to have the best possible care, seven days a week
4897- If Jeremy Hunt wants more doctors working evenings and weekends then he needs to say where they will come from and how he will ensure there are enough nurses and support staff to deliver more seven-day care
4898BMA refusing to talk – refusing to engage, door opened since June
4899- This is simply not true – we were the ones who proposed conciliation talks, which the government originally refused
4900- We’ve been clear all along that we want to reach a negotiated deal
4901- But the government have given up on negotiations, meaning we have been left with no option but to take this action
490208/03/2016, 22:11 - J Malawana: Hold on that's not complete.
490308/03/2016, 22:11 - J Malawana: Tell me who needs it and will send it.
490408/03/2016, 22:12 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Petition invaluable tool for interacting with public and giving them (and docs) something to DO on the pickets.
490508/03/2016, 22:13 - A Collins: Can you just send that comms brief to exec/jdc please?
490608/03/2016, 22:19 - A Collins: Thanks yoyo
490708/03/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: Fucking oriel
490808/03/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: Fucking application website
490908/03/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: Fuuuuck
491008/03/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: It's not working
491108/03/2016, 23:27 - D Rouse: Deadline tomorrow at 4pm but wanted to submit it now have it done
491208/03/2016, 23:28 - D Rouse: It's ridiculous
491308/03/2016, 23:28 - D Rouse: NHS and nhse etc can't organise anything right
491408/03/2016, 23:34 - E McCourt: Can you screen shot everything and send it to me? Can raise is with Oriel.
491508/03/2016, 23:35 - D Rouse: It's difficult to
491608/03/2016, 23:36 - D Rouse: All it does it goes to home page
491708/03/2016, 23:36 - D Rouse: Wouldn't prove anything
491808/03/2016, 23:36 - D Rouse: How can I screen shot it
491908/03/2016, 23:40 - E McCourt: Hmm. Not sure. Would be handy to have evidence. But otherwise just let me know what has happened.
492008/03/2016, 23:41 - D Rouse: Here is a video of it not working
492108/03/2016, 23:41 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
492208/03/2016, 23:41 - D Rouse: Has clock and date on it
492308/03/2016, 23:43 - D Rouse: Does that help
492409/03/2016, 07:41 - L J Davis: I nearly clicked on David's video. But realised it sounds very boring.
492509/03/2016, 07:41 - A Collins: Did we get approached about BBC R4 this am? I'm currently listening to a (to be fair relatively balanced) NHS England manager talking unopposed :(
492609/03/2016, 07:42 - A Collins: She is interestingly being seen as not on either side but as a sort of crisis manager who is just there to over see the covering of the strike and not as an employer rep
492709/03/2016, 07:44 - L J Davis: Interestingly, junior doctors got mentioned in debate with bishop on Sunday opening
492809/03/2016, 07:46 - K Mohan: Adam, NHS England do appear to be casting themselves in that role. Essentially saying this is a row between the Govt and the BMA/junior doctors and "the NHS" is being caught in the middle.
492909/03/2016, 07:46 - L J Davis: (On gmb). He said he didn't understand the details*, but felt it was important that people 'had time to play'
4930*susannah Reid added "you're not the only one!" At this point
493109/03/2016, 07:47 - A Collins: Kitty, I have to say she very much stuck to the script then. She did talk about Dalton being fair minded and approving the offer but didn't go as far as to offer any comment on how or why we rejected it, and refused to be drawn on how the dispute would be best resolved.
493209/03/2016, 07:48 - A Collins: I do think if we've not been approached that's a bit naughty however.
493309/03/2016, 08:57 - Z Greaves: Are our London trainees protesting this event:
493409/03/2016, 08:57 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
493509/03/2016, 09:05 - K Mohan: Yes north thames are.
493609/03/2016, 09:05 - K Mohan: Afaik
493709/03/2016, 09:13 - Z Greaves: Good stuff
493809/03/2016, 10:47 - D Rouse: Ellen. This oriel system is useless
493909/03/2016, 10:47 - D Rouse: End of
494009/03/2016, 10:53 - Z Greaves: I've had no problems with it David - did you not hear Andrew and I fixed it last summer :) 
4941#jokes
494209/03/2016, 10:57 - K Mohan: So what's the turnout today?
494309/03/2016, 10:57 - A Collier Very poor at SASC...but I imagine that wasn't really your question.
494409/03/2016, 10:58 - A Collier Most of SASC members have been refused leave to attend their meeting.
494509/03/2016, 10:58 - A Collier They remain supportive though!
494609/03/2016, 10:59 - K Mohan: Are you at sasc?
494709/03/2016, 11:00 - K Mohan: Hope you're VCing from a picket?
494809/03/2016, 11:00 - A Collier I was, just heading to do an interview and then going back
494909/03/2016, 11:00 - A Collier I'm VCing to the picket...my face is being carried aloft on an iPad
495009/03/2016, 11:03 - K Mohan: Who is the interview with? LBC? :)
495109/03/2016, 11:04 - A Collier They got in early (6:50) this on is the Daily Politics...will try to steal a mug.
495209/03/2016, 11:10 - Z Greaves: Encouraged that there is nothing remotely negative on the BBC live feed - it's all juniors tweets and pictures of MPs etc visiting pickets
495309/03/2016, 11:11 - A Yassaee: It'll come once they have the attendance estimates
495409/03/2016, 11:11 - Z Greaves: Well nearly nothing - but vastly in our favour over all
495509/03/2016, 12:09 - D Rouse: I don't know if anyone is applying to anything using oriel today but
495609/03/2016, 12:10 - D Rouse: Please check your documents there has been a system error and stuff hasn't been uploading
495709/03/2016, 12:26 - D Rouse: IT ON TWITTER CHRIS DAY LOST THE APPEAL
495809/03/2016, 12:36 - M Redman: Does this mean we can finally release a statement of some sort
495909/03/2016, 12:52 - H Carter: Johann can you make your post on the facebook forum 'shareable'n
496009/03/2016, 12:52 - H Carter: ?
496109/03/2016, 12:52 - H Carter: The one with lots of pics of pickets!
496209/03/2016, 12:55 - C Bell: I think the support at Cambridge is actually higher this time
496309/03/2016, 12:56 - C Bell: The public are loving it
496409/03/2016, 12:56 - C Bell: Also we always choose wet days
496509/03/2016, 13:05 - Z Greaves: We've added a new picket for one of our smaller hospitals
496609/03/2016, 13:06 - Z Greaves: Btw just to check - saw a clip of Andrew on daily politics - seemed to be suggesting we'd never do a full walk out? Have I misunderstood?
496709/03/2016, 13:06 - A Collier Ok, I said we'd not do it in the foreseeable future and we'd never endanger lives
496809/03/2016, 13:06 - D Rouse: You said we'd keep emergency cover
496909/03/2016, 13:06 - A Collier Those fuckers on Facebook are going mental over nothing!
497009/03/2016, 13:07 - D Rouse: Never said we are not going to full walk out
497109/03/2016, 13:07 - D Rouse: Emergency cover would be provided by consultants
497209/03/2016, 13:07 - A Collier If Johann is reading this could he post something to tell them to calm the fuck down
497309/03/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: I am trying to write something from all the officers and get them all to approve I
497409/03/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: It
497509/03/2016, 13:20 - A Collier Thanks David
497609/03/2016, 13:22 - A Yassaee: Andrew, I actually think what you said is helpful from a external political view. 
4977
4978We can just call full walkout "consultant-delivered emergency care" and it is consistent with what you said, and undermines the claims that a junior doctor walkout is dangerous.
497909/03/2016, 13:27 - A Collins: I agree with Arrash. And I've taken the liberty of wading in.
498009/03/2016, 13:28 - D Rouse: Adam
498109/03/2016, 13:28 - D Rouse: Take that down for a sex
498209/03/2016, 13:29 - D Rouse: Sec
498309/03/2016, 13:29 - D Rouse: Just posted from officers
498409/03/2016, 13:29 - D Rouse: Hello everyone. 
4985
4986Andrew has not said that full walk out has been ruled out. 
4987
4988He pointed out the views that some doctors hold that removing all emergency cover would endanger patients. 
4989
4990He highlighted any action taken would be safe as emergency cover would be provided. 
4991
4992In the instance of junior doctors taking full walk out it would be provided by consultants.  As Doctors the safety of our patients must be our first priority. 
4993
4994To be clear the JDC has not ruled out the possibility of escalating to a full junior doctor walk out in the future. 
4995
4996I hope this clarifies the situation. 
4997
4998Best wishes
4999
5000D Rouse on behalf of the JDC Officer Team
500109/03/2016, 13:29 - A Collins: Seen. 
5002I'll put mine back up later if people keep complaining.
500309/03/2016, 13:30 - A Collins: Yours is somewhat more measured...
500409/03/2016, 13:30 - A Collier Thanks you all.
500509/03/2016, 13:30 - A Collier Good god they really are mad!!!
500609/03/2016, 13:31 - A Collins: Completely!
500709/03/2016, 13:33 - M Redman: Great response daveybbz
500809/03/2016, 13:33 - A Collins: I've put up some less aggressive support.
500909/03/2016, 13:33 - A Collins: I decided I was being rude.
501009/03/2016, 13:34 - D Rouse: Hahha
501109/03/2016, 13:34 - D Rouse: Thanks adam
501209/03/2016, 13:34 - D Rouse: glad you modified
501309/03/2016, 13:34 - D Rouse: X
501409/03/2016, 13:35 - A Collins: You know I only like to be rude on purpose. Never by accident. That is mortifying :)
501509/03/2016, 13:35 - A Yassaee: You really would think that doctors would be able to understand what was actually said. I despair sometimes.
501609/03/2016, 13:36 - A Collier Subtly and nuance seem to be alien concepts to some of our colleagues.
501709/03/2016, 13:36 - A Collins: Perhaps they're surgeons...
501809/03/2016, 13:38 - A Yassaee: But whether deliberate or not Andrew, I think you've set the perfect tone for us to eventually announce withdrawal of junior emergency cover if and when the time comes.
501909/03/2016, 13:38 - Z Greaves: I think if you're not politically minded you could easily miss the subtlety of distinction
502009/03/2016, 13:39 - M Redman: Ah bit harsh fellas. I am colliers BIGGEST #fangirl ????????, but before reading any comments on it I thought it came across as Andrew implying that ( even though I knew what he meant), esp as anyone in world could be watching.
5021
5022Rather than criticizing just need to address like David/Andrew et al did
502309/03/2016, 13:39 - Z Greaves: Yes sensible and measured response :)
502409/03/2016, 14:16 - Z Greaves: Apparently we are a 'politically poisoned people' ??
502509/03/2016, 14:16 - D Rouse: Who said that
502609/03/2016, 14:21 - C Bell: Hunt in parliament
502709/03/2016, 14:29 - A Yassaee: He's talking about Chris Day now
502809/03/2016, 14:44 - Z Greaves: Quoted bevan
502909/03/2016, 14:44 - Z Greaves: Oh what's he got to say about that? Didn't think that would even be on radar
503009/03/2016, 14:45 - A Yassaee: Very little. Importance of separating professional and employment responsibilities and how we referred Chris to the CQC for help
503109/03/2016, 14:45 - A Yassaee: If CD is from Yorkshire then maybe it was his MP who raised it
503209/03/2016, 15:15 - M Redman: Is CD from Yorkshire?
503309/03/2016, 15:16 - M Redman: Did he say anything else about strike
503409/03/2016, 15:16 - A Yassaee: No idea but the MP was
503509/03/2016, 15:16 - A Yassaee: The standard stuff. Nothing exciting.
503609/03/2016, 15:16 - M Redman: I got de badged and de lanyarded in forensic unit ??
503709/03/2016, 15:17 - A Collins: Hopefully by a concerned staff member and not by an aggressive patient?
503809/03/2016, 15:18 - M Redman: Lolol. would be great headline though. 'York junior doctor martyr killed whilst providing emergency care'
503909/03/2016, 15:32 - A Yassaee: That thread is being marginally more sensible and even talking about "consultant delivered emergency care"
504009/03/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Hey
504109/03/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Off to channel 5 lol
504209/03/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Wish me luck
504309/03/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: But nervous
504409/03/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: But nervous today
504509/03/2016, 17:10 - A Collins: Good luck!
504609/03/2016, 17:11 - A Yassaee: Best of luck!
504709/03/2016, 17:11 - A Yassaee: (I'm a bit isolated oncall - how do we think today is going?)
504809/03/2016, 17:18 - H Carter: Will we have data r.e turnout figures for each day, or action as a whole across both days?
504909/03/2016, 17:18 - H Carter: And good luck, David!
505009/03/2016, 17:20 - J Malawana: Really good turn out from all the pics am being sent. Have put up about 80 so far from across the country on Facebook.
505109/03/2016, 17:26 - K Mohan: What % not at work?
505209/03/2016, 17:31 - D Tooth: Jm not at work with  a bloody fever, someone asked if I am gonna get a sick note! Really can't be bothered although maybe I should to make the point!
505309/03/2016, 17:32 - A Yassaee: Random question - do any of the arms length bodies have offices in the immediate vicinity of Westminster abbey?
505409/03/2016, 17:39 - Z Greaves: Sign your own? :P
505509/03/2016, 17:39 - D Tooth: Lol!
505609/03/2016, 17:52 - H Carter: Sorry, Arrash. Arms length to?
505709/03/2016, 17:52 - H Carter: The Government?
505809/03/2016, 17:52 - J Malawana: They didn't bother today to say re %
505909/03/2016, 17:53 - J Malawana: Guessing may say tomorrow.
506009/03/2016, 17:53 - J Malawana: Or may have given up considering it was so stupid
506109/03/2016, 17:55 - A Yassaee: Yeah like NHSe, HEE etc (i know those two have HQs elsewhere)
506209/03/2016, 17:56 - A Yassaee: I suspect the silence is because the realise it's a fruitless line
506309/03/2016, 17:56 - A Yassaee: They*
506409/03/2016, 17:59 - A Collier Clearly a fruitless line but our inability to offer a counter statistic worries me.
506509/03/2016, 17:59 - A Collier I saw Dominic Raab's briefing for the Daily Politics for today.
506609/03/2016, 18:08 - H Carter: And?
506709/03/2016, 18:09 - A Collier 1. Seven day services must be delivered
50682. Most doctors will receive a pay rise
50693. Deal is fair and affordable
50704. BMA is misleading its members and misrepresenting the contract
5071
5072I forget the 5th point but it wasn't anything revelatory
507309/03/2016, 18:09 - A Collier Sorry went through a tunnel
507409/03/2016, 18:09 - A Collier The suspense was unintentional
507509/03/2016, 18:10 - A Collier I was surprised that the brief was so predictable.
507609/03/2016, 18:12 - A Yassaee: 2b would appear to contradict 3
507709/03/2016, 18:12 - A Yassaee: Or at least be in conflict
507809/03/2016, 18:12 - B Roberts: I'm really enjoying the poetic juxtaposition of the strike and the Sunday trading laws vote.
507909/03/2016, 18:13 - A Collier But they've been saying the same thing since the start so that contradiction does seem to bother them
508009/03/2016, 18:13 - A Yassaee: Of course. Which is reassuring actually.
508109/03/2016, 18:14 - A Yassaee: It would hint that the strategy is to just hope this goes away rather than actively quash the dissent.
508209/03/2016, 18:59 - L J Davis: Wow! I watched channel 5. And it wasn't the x files.
508309/03/2016, 18:59 - L J Davis: Very good interview, david ??
508410/03/2016, 07:01 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
508510/03/2016, 07:06 - H Carter: Are they suggesting this was a national effort by NHS England?
508610/03/2016, 07:07 - H Carter: I wonder what factors that could have used to strike where they wanted journalists (if this is the whole story).
508710/03/2016, 07:07 - H Carter: * they
508810/03/2016, 07:08 - H Carter: * strike = determine
508910/03/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: Just done LBC
509010/03/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: Think it went okay
509110/03/2016, 13:14 - D Rouse: Really pushed on patients suffering who waiting surgery
509210/03/2016, 13:15 - A Collier Who was the presenter?
509310/03/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: Foggerty
509410/03/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: Or how ever
509510/03/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: You spell it
509610/03/2016, 13:15 - A Collier Sheila...
509710/03/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: Yeah
509810/03/2016, 13:15 - A Collier She's moving to be increasingly anti-BMA
509910/03/2016, 13:16 - D Rouse: Yes. She is
510010/03/2016, 13:16 - D Rouse: I really pushed doctors defending Nhs
510110/03/2016, 13:16 - D Rouse: Toxic inposition
510210/03/2016, 13:16 - D Rouse: 6k 11k lack nurses docs
510310/03/2016, 13:17 - D Rouse: Thin resource spread thinner over 7 days wait times could increase for ops for a&e for GP
510410/03/2016, 13:18 - D Rouse: Dunno if I'll be able to hear it on their app
510510/03/2016, 13:18 - A Collier In the words of her producer: "Our long standing press lines sound tired"
510610/03/2016, 13:19 - M Redman: Meh. Big deal. Whilst you've done LBC, I've done stylist magazine who asked what time I go to bed and what I cook for my evening meals.
510710/03/2016, 13:20 - M Redman: (But seriously though - well done daveybbz)
510810/03/2016, 13:20 - C Sheridan: I'd love to know the answers to those questions melody. Proper in depth journalism!
510910/03/2016, 13:21 - M Redman: Let's just say this one could be my lowest low
511010/03/2016, 13:22 - C Sheridan: Every little helps Melody! (as some evil conglomerate once said)
511110/03/2016, 13:29 - K Mohan: Have you done the day in the life, Melo?
511210/03/2016, 13:29 - K Mohan: Nooooo. Stylist is amazing.
511310/03/2016, 13:31 - K Mohan: One of our south thames reps' husband is a journalist for time out. We're trying to find an angle for that.
511410/03/2016, 13:32 - T Crocker-Buque: I once got asked to do the Telegraphs men's magazine who were report if a study that showed smoking reduced hair growth in men. They wanted to know what I thought about this as a man with a beard who isn't  anti-cigarettes.
511510/03/2016, 13:32 - T Crocker-Buque: I declined
511610/03/2016, 13:33 - T Crocker-Buque: is*
511710/03/2016, 13:33 - L J Davis: ISNT ANTI CIGARETTE?
511810/03/2016, 13:34 - L J Davis: Oh. ^is
511910/03/2016, 13:34 - L J Davis: I want a makeover. You know, busy mum of 3 leading national strike, needs new look, etc. good housekeeping stylie
512010/03/2016, 13:35 - L J Davis: Can someone organise that for me? I need outfits suitable for playgroup/school drop off and speaking at national committee meetings.
512110/03/2016, 13:36 - L J Davis: ??
512210/03/2016, 13:36 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
512310/03/2016, 13:36 - L J Davis: Who is the sad lady?
512410/03/2016, 13:36 - L J Davis: She looks weighed down with the weight of the world..
512510/03/2016, 13:37 - K Mohan: And clearly needs a hol.
512610/03/2016, 13:37 - K Mohan: Melody has been typing for ages...
512710/03/2016, 13:37 - M Redman: No, I'm no roshana... 
5128A random journalist asked bma like day before that came out 're article about lady professions. They asked for a picture of me, just to show the editor, but not for the actual magazine... Creepy...
5129
5130Anyway today they finally followed it up. I wonder if they'll rank me on a scale or something. We'll See . .
513110/03/2016, 13:38 - L J Davis: Top totty?
513210/10?
513310/03/2016, 13:38 - K Mohan: Not a normal stylist feature?
513410/03/2016, 13:38 - M Redman: Sorry i took a phone call, on call lol. 
5135
5136You guys going abroad tg?
513710/03/2016, 13:39 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
513810/03/2016, 13:40 - M Redman: Who's the fella?!?
513910/03/2016, 13:40 - M Redman: I demand an explanation of your adventures.
514010/03/2016, 13:40 - M Redman: If it involves the Crystal maze, I will unfriendly you on facebook
514110/03/2016, 13:41 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
514210/03/2016, 13:42 - D Rouse: Who is he ???
514310/03/2016, 13:42 - K Mohan: Kitlett want to go to the crystal maze
514410/03/2016, 13:43 - K Mohan: In other news, Hallett was bad
514510/03/2016, 13:43 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
514610/03/2016, 13:44 - D Rouse: Okay but who is that man
514710/03/2016, 13:44 - D Rouse: Please get to the real point
514810/03/2016, 13:45 - D Rouse: Melody wants to know too
514910/03/2016, 13:45 - M Redman: I do..
5150 I need to get to him before stylist magazine article released.
515110/03/2016, 13:46 - M Redman: JOKE.
515210/03/2016, 13:46 - K Mohan: Lol. David you should know who the guy is. He's one of our south thames reps. Shame on you! :)
515310/03/2016, 13:46 - D Rouse: Will?
515410/03/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: Lol
515510/03/2016, 13:47 - K Mohan: Don't say random names.
515610/03/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: John
515710/03/2016, 13:47 - K Mohan: It's Todd.
515810/03/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: Bob
515910/03/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: Garry
516010/03/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: With two r
516110/03/2016, 14:26 - D Rouse: Amazin junior doctors events at Tooting Broadway
516210/03/2016, 14:59 - K Mohan: Yup.
516310/03/2016, 15:10 - D Rouse: Nice to talk to George's Drs
516410/03/2016, 15:10 - D Rouse: Some great ideas
516510/03/2016, 15:47 - M Redman: Wooooooaooooaoooh mysterious Todd...
516610/03/2016, 15:48 - M Redman: What ideas? New ones? Share on list??
516710/03/2016, 15:57 - D Rouse: Going to when hands warm up
516810/03/2016, 15:57 - D Rouse: Being doing meet the doctors
516910/03/2016, 16:01 - A Yassaee: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/12189734/If-the-junior-doctors-are-right-and-Jeremy-Hunt-is-wrong-the-NHS-is-in-serious-trouble.html
517010/03/2016, 16:03 - H Carter: Bit of a shift from their previous position.
517110/03/2016, 16:03 - A Yassaee: It's written by a doctor
517210/03/2016, 16:26 - A Yassaee: It's the comments that are more interesting
517310/03/2016, 20:14 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
517410/03/2016, 20:27 - A Collins: Lol
517510/03/2016, 20:40 - E McCourt: #moetmanagers
517610/03/2016, 22:32 - Z Greaves: Anyone remember what the Bma future of training document was called? The one they published at last years arm
517710/03/2016, 22:36 - Z Greaves: Trying to find it and struggling without name
517810/03/2016, 22:47 - E McCourt: http://m.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/working%20for%20change/policy%20and%20lobbying/training%20and%20development%20of%20doctors_02%2009%2015.pdf?la=en
517910/03/2016, 22:47 - E McCourt: This?
518011/03/2016, 00:01 - L Boyle: Has the whole Exec registered? You must register - can't hold the seats for much longer as they'll go to the pool bma.org.uk/juniorsconference
518111/03/2016, 00:01 - L Boyle: We will name & shame if you don't! ??
518211/03/2016, 00:02 - D Rouse: I have
518311/03/2016, 00:07 - A Yassaee: I believe i have
518411/03/2016, 00:17 - A Collins: Yep
518511/03/2016, 00:17 - A Collins: (is this a roll call vote? :p)
518611/03/2016, 00:34 - L Boyle: No it's a warning
518711/03/2016, 00:34 - L Boyle: A threat perhaps
518811/03/2016, 00:34 - A Collins: Lol
518911/03/2016, 05:39 - D Tooth: I think I have
519011/03/2016, 06:49 - M Redman: Guyz does anyone know if we deleted a press release about nhs England statement
519111/03/2016, 06:49 - M Redman: About cancelled op clinic/ops
519211/03/2016, 06:49 - M Redman: For strike
5193(I have registered)
519411/03/2016, 07:06 - E McCourt: Deleted? Like retracted? How odd.
519511/03/2016, 07:12 - L J Davis: Oops. Sorry Luke. Conf unit know I'm coming, tho... ??
519611/03/2016, 07:18 - M Redman: Well I only looked at it 2/7 and couldn't find it this AM but I'm wondering if anyone was aware of it
519711/03/2016, 07:19 - A Collins: If yer nae ahn the list yer nae gettin' in hen!
519811/03/2016, 07:19 - A Collins: (Luke is wearing a kilt, so I assume conf Unit will be going all out and acting like Glasweigan bouncers too)
519911/03/2016, 07:24 - M Redman: That would confuse people. Once at jdconf a southerner asked me if my accent was Scottish.
520011/03/2016, 07:25 - A Collins: Acopic.
520111/03/2016, 07:27 - Z Greaves: Thanks Ellen
520211/03/2016, 07:48 - D Rouse: Adam have you had a CVA
520311/03/2016, 08:23 - L Boyle: LJD they don't actually! Everyone pls register this wkd, ta :)
520411/03/2016, 08:38 - K Mohan: Luke, I'm flying back from Lithuania for conference. I most definitely have registered.
520511/03/2016, 08:40 - Kitty Mohan changed this group's icon
520611/03/2016, 08:44 - L J Davis: They do, Luke. I had a looong chat with Caroline :) but I'll register too...
520711/03/2016, 08:47 - L J Davis: I ?????? Caroline ??
520811/03/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: Why?!? Seriously kitty. Why
520911/03/2016, 08:48 - L Boyle: The conference unit only see the numbers on the page as registered
521011/03/2016, 08:49 - L Boyle: They haven't time to chase
521111/03/2016, 08:50 - K Mohan: Why am I coming back for conference, Yoyo? Cos it is important. 
5212
5213Oh was that not what you meant. ;)
521411/03/2016, 08:51 - L J Davis: It's in case we brexit. Keeping her hand in...
521511/03/2016, 08:51 - L J Davis: ??
521611/03/2016, 08:54 - K Mohan: No because conference is our most important day of the JDC year.
521711/03/2016, 15:45 - L J Davis: Just going through my diary. Did we have an exec mtg on 23rd dec?
521811/03/2016, 17:04 - B Roberts: Yes, we did.
521911/03/2016, 17:05 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
522011/03/2016, 17:06 - M Redman: IT'S TOO LATE. THEY PUT ME AND NORMS TG AND THAT IM ON JDC EXEC ????????????????
522111/03/2016, 17:06 - M Redman: Shall I ask them to take it down
522211/03/2016, 17:07 - M Redman: I think I may have accidentally lost the 'a' in 'apolitical'
522311/03/2016, 17:07 - M Redman: ??
522411/03/2016, 17:07 - A Yassaee: I don't know what the BMA's internal motives would be but of all the health MPs to be associated with, Norman is about as un-toxic it gets.
522511/03/2016, 17:08 - A Yassaee: He commands a surprising amount of respect amongst the current DH ministers
522611/03/2016, 17:08 - M Redman: But Johann gave me one piece of advice... Lol.
5227
5228But at least it's not a selfie
522911/03/2016, 17:08 - A Yassaee: No i get it and why he said it
523011/03/2016, 17:09 - A Yassaee: But in terms of that advice it's literally the least damaging violation you possibly could have committed
523111/03/2016, 17:09 - M Redman: Tbf it doesn't state if we're speaking in opposition or tg or anything it just says meet the drs on the top
523211/03/2016, 17:10 - A Yassaee: Quite
523311/03/2016, 17:10 - M Redman: okay. Thanks arrash lolz??
523411/03/2016, 17:12 - A Yassaee: No biggie. I am biased though - i quite like him
523511/03/2016, 18:21 - B Roberts: Who changed the picture and when?!
523611/03/2016, 18:25 - M Redman: Ljd this morning I think
523711/03/2016, 18:44 - K Mohan: erm it may or may not have been me. johann noticed if you scroll back... but no one else did.
523811/03/2016, 18:46 - J Malawana: That's no biggie.
523911/03/2016, 18:46 - L J Davis: Wrong!!!! Wrong wrong wrong!!!!
524011/03/2016, 18:46 - M Redman: Whooooopsiiiieeeee
524111/03/2016, 18:47 - J Malawana: As Arrash says least toxic MP
524211/03/2016, 18:47 - J Malawana: And talking at this type of event is expected.
524311/03/2016, 18:47 - K Mohan: johann told people i was lovely today. i think it was an accident as we both were very surprised. but i'll take that.
524411/03/2016, 18:47 - M Redman: Phew I thought you might be disappointed in me. MUST NOT LET YOYO DOWN
524511/03/2016, 18:47 - J Malawana: Lol
524611/03/2016, 18:48 - J Malawana: I was trying to be nice to our French guests.
524711/03/2016, 18:48 - K Mohan: both meaning me and yoyo
524811/03/2016, 18:48 - A Collins: I think we've given melo a complex with this whole "favourite member of exec" lark...
524911/03/2016, 18:48 - L J Davis: It's ok to be associated with lib dems. They are just the guys who say sorry lots
525011/03/2016, 18:49 - J Malawana: Telling them the second most senior junior doctor in Europe is an evil mentalist who likes to inflict pain seemed a bit harsh
525111/03/2016, 18:49 - K Mohan: they called you john for the rest of the day. i did not correct them.
525211/03/2016, 18:50 - J Malawana: Melo definitely favourite. Collins you were alluded to today in the GAT meeting. Confident (meaning loud) foundation programme people of SJDC.
525311/03/2016, 18:50 - J Malawana: :-)
525411/03/2016, 18:50 - L J Davis: Brexit is coming i tellsyou
525511/03/2016, 18:51 - K Mohan: they invited me to a meeting in a theme park. i think they may have been making this up to get me to come to paris.
525611/03/2016, 18:51 - K Mohan: weirdly Johann (not john) had told him her was 36. they thought about this very carefully and then told me they thought i was 25. lols.
525711/03/2016, 18:52 - K Mohan: *told them he was 36.
525811/03/2016, 18:52 - J Malawana: They lied
525911/03/2016, 18:52 - J Malawana: They definitely didn't think you were 25
526011/03/2016, 18:52 - A Collins: How exciting. I've been called confident (loud) a lot. I'm used to it.
526111/03/2016, 18:52 - J Malawana: You wish. They definitely didn't speak very good English.
526211/03/2016, 18:53 - A Collins: See also confident (rude) confident (pain in the ass) etc :o
526311/03/2016, 18:53 - K Mohan: you can be mean to me now johann, i know you think i'm lovely. awwww
526411/03/2016, 18:54 - A Collins: How are the French men? Is jeeves helping to entertain them?
526511/03/2016, 18:54 - L J Davis: Why oh why would you go to Paris for a theme park?!???
526611/03/2016, 18:56 - K Mohan: their english was excellent.
526711/03/2016, 18:56 - L J Davis: Will eating a whole mango do me any harm (not the stone, obvs)
526811/03/2016, 18:56 - L J Davis: It's soooo yummy
526911/03/2016, 18:58 - B Roberts: Oh, was the "why, seriously why?" comment from Johann to Kitty about the photo? I thought I was confused at the time.
527011/03/2016, 18:59 - E McCourt: Are you eating it while participating in an extreme sport? If not, no I'm sure it's fine LJD!
527111/03/2016, 19:11 - K Mohan: i'm allergic to mangoes and still eat them. more likely to do me harm than you i guess.
527211/03/2016, 19:12 - L J Davis: You can't have my mango kitty. I've eaten it all!!!
5273Ahahahaha!!!
527411/03/2016, 19:16 - A Yassaee: I eat a mango a day
527511/03/2016, 19:17 - A Yassaee: I highly recommend it
527611/03/2016, 19:18 - K Mohan: i love mangoes (i'm a bit confused why we're discussing mangoes though) but i do carry an epi pen when i remember.
527711/03/2016, 19:31 - L J Davis: Yay! I'm an aunt! 
5278(All sounds v stressful tho & GA etc...)
527911/03/2016, 19:31 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
528011/03/2016, 19:34 - A Collins: Should we have started off requiring Friday and Monday be paid as plain time so we could move out position and meet them in the middle? ??
528111/03/2016, 19:40 - A Yassaee: How long do we have for exec on sunday? Is it worth us putting some thoughts to M's questions on listserver?
528211/03/2016, 19:42 - B Roberts: Who's Jon?
528311/03/2016, 20:00 - K Mohan: jon bailey. atdg chair
528411/03/2016, 20:07 - M Redman: Sun is 90mins, Arrash. 0800-0930
528511/03/2016, 20:07 - M Redman: Kitty you clearly wooed the frenchies!!!
528611/03/2016, 20:35 - J Malawana: Yes definitely Arrash. Put it on the exec listserver
528711/03/2016, 20:35 - C Sheridan: Interesting article. Apparently UK doesn't have an NHS anymore... (well I think it's England they really mean reading the article):
5288
5289http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/terrifyingly-according-to-the-world-health-organisation-definition-the-uk-no-longer-has-a-nhs-a6923126.html
529011/03/2016, 20:46 - A Yassaee: Okay. I shall post when there are fewer beers.
529111/03/2016, 20:52 - E McCourt: Is there something wrong with the BMA website or is it my laptop? Could someone try it?
529211/03/2016, 20:55 - B Roberts: I thought DC had misspelled Johann...
529311/03/2016, 20:57 - K Mohan: I can't get on the website from my phone.
529411/03/2016, 21:03 - E McCourt: Thanks Kitty
529511/03/2016, 21:56 - A Yassaee: Also having read it, I cant see how that article's headline remotely corresponds to its content? I always felt the independent is normally quite good at not doing that!
529611/03/2016, 22:00 - D Tooth: Me too Bethan!!
529711/03/2016, 22:03 - B Roberts: ;)
529811/03/2016, 22:44 - E McCourt: Love The Last Leg
529911/03/2016, 22:46 - E McCourt: <Media omitted>
530012/03/2016, 13:10 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
530112/03/2016, 13:15 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
530212/03/2016, 14:13 - A Yassaee: I've started a thread on how IA went (M's first Q). I thought this might be something we could survey fairly well on our listserver and concentrate on the other two issues on Sunday?
530312/03/2016, 18:11 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
530412/03/2016, 18:27 - Z Greaves: Brave melody, very brave lol
530512/03/2016, 19:27 - A Collier Melody pictured with EVERY lib dem in the country
530612/03/2016, 19:27 - A Collier <Media omitted>
530712/03/2016, 19:46 - B Roberts: :)
530812/03/2016, 19:52 - Z Greaves: Your overstating the numbers slightly there Andrew :P
530912/03/2016, 19:54 - J Malawana: Did you go as well Andrew?
531012/03/2016, 20:38 - M Redman: Norman photobombed a pic
531112/03/2016, 20:39 - M Redman: I'm sorry johann ?? he literally just crept in the side
531212/03/2016, 20:40 - M Redman: They FORCED us to wear lib dem lanyards ??
531312/03/2016, 20:40 - M Redman: I feel defiled
531412/03/2016, 20:41 - M Redman: I took it off for all pictures.
531512/03/2016, 20:41 - A Yassaee: Lol
531612/03/2016, 20:41 - A Yassaee: You poor lady
531712/03/2016, 20:42 - A Yassaee: Side note - I know we meet in 11.5 hours but have posted on Q2 that M shared (mood on the ground)
531812/03/2016, 21:19 - K Mohan: One of my reps just sent me this pic...
531912/03/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
532012/03/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: And wrote underneath it...
5321"Thought you were going to broach the scarf issue. I'll write a motion to conference if needed".
532212/03/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: Lols
532312/03/2016, 21:21 - K Mohan: The people are telling you "the scarf must go", Yoyo.
532412/03/2016, 22:00 - L Boyle: I love the scarf
532512/03/2016, 22:01 - L Boyle: It's the quintessential Johann article of clothing
532612/03/2016, 22:09 - K Mohan: Hmm. Brighton disagrees. Our reps did a survey of the picket. The scarf lost.
532712/03/2016, 22:10 - L Boyle: <Media omitted>
532812/03/2016, 22:10 - L Boyle: I have warmed to the scarf
532912/03/2016, 22:11 - L Boyle: It's Johann's wearable comfort blanket
533012/03/2016, 22:11 - L Boyle: Excuse the pun(s)
533112/03/2016, 22:13 - K Mohan: The funniest comment I heard was: "seriously did some stylist tell him to wear that". 
5332
5333Serious lols. Johann with a stylist.hahah.
5334
5335Personally I'm scarf-neutral but you know, we were told to report back what happened at the pickets. ;)
533612/03/2016, 22:19 - L Boyle: The scarf would be a HIT in Bonnie Scotland
533712/03/2016, 22:19 - L Boyle: Dr Collins will concur when sober mane
533812/03/2016, 22:27 - Z Greaves: I'm a definite #scarffan
533912/03/2016, 22:31 - A Collins: Please, I won't be sober til pm
534013/03/2016, 07:00 - M Redman: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/mar/13/junior-doctors-contract-to-be-challenged-in-courts
534113/03/2016, 07:01 - M Redman: A) the article as a whole
5342B) 'Dr Ben White, another doctor from the team. “I don’t think the BMA have represented the problem very well,” said White. “The grassroots doctors have done much better but we haven’t really had any tools to pursue our concerns until now. We think this could be it.”'
534313/03/2016, 07:52 - A Collins: Bit rude...
534413/03/2016, 07:54 - A Yassaee: Tbh it's fine - anything that contradicts the view we mislead
534513/03/2016, 07:55 - A Collins: True. Not misleading, just ineffective :p
534613/03/2016, 07:55 - A Yassaee: Haha
534713/03/2016, 07:55 - A Yassaee: Ben is at my hospital
534813/03/2016, 07:55 - A Yassaee: His whole family are in media
534913/03/2016, 07:56 - A Yassaee: And he did A LOT of work for the nhs single
535013/03/2016, 07:56 - A Yassaee: He has a plan
535113/03/2016, 07:58 - J Malawana: What's the number for scopia?
535213/03/2016, 07:58 - M Redman: 617025
535313/03/2016, 08:00 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Via phone?
535413/03/2016, 08:00 - K Mohan: 02030333912
535513/03/2016, 08:01 - A Yassaee: I've dialled in but I'm eating some really crunchy cheerios so gonna have  to be on mute to preserve all your hearing
535613/03/2016, 08:02 - M Redman: Lol
535713/03/2016, 08:06 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Yannis
535813/03/2016, 08:06 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Whenevr
535913/03/2016, 08:07 - M Redman: It's me on other phone line now. I can't comment on the chat or hea r anything on scopia but I can still see you all so I'll remain on both
536013/03/2016, 08:16 - K Mohan: Same as me. :)
536113/03/2016, 08:19 - M Redman: Scopia isn't happy today
536213/03/2016, 08:20 - M Redman: For such an important resource it doesn't halfcause issues
536313/03/2016, 08:43 - Z Greaves: I know mine cut me out for no reason - perfect signal
536413/03/2016, 08:45 - M Redman: Please add mee to the list
536513/03/2016, 08:51 - A Yassaee: I suggested it in email so in the interests in time please add me to the "do a survey" side.
536613/03/2016, 08:52 - M Redman: Yeah actually ditto.
536713/03/2016, 08:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 1. Agree with kittys view that we need to make a clear demand which looks to gain a climb-down from government. Her argument was compelling.   2. R.e surveys...i am not an enthusiastic supporter of this.
536813/03/2016, 08:55 - A Yassaee: On topic with what Kitty days, if you had IA in the days before the referendum, that would be the time to make it most difficult for DH to respond.
536913/03/2016, 08:55 - A Yassaee: Also if you escalate the end of April action, you will end up pissing off paeds even more than they are already
537013/03/2016, 08:56 - A Yassaee: Especially as Nina has sent an email round saying the action was a genuine oversight
537113/03/2016, 08:57 - J Malawana: Arrash can you forward me that email from neena?
537213/03/2016, 09:05 - A Sami: I am a supporter of a survey to improve our accountability and transparency of our decision making process during this crucial time 
5373
5374And I see the sentiment of moving the two separate IA lots and lump them together as a 4 days IA either before Easter or aftr Easter (or any any Bank Holiday coming up) This will help with getting the maximum effect for our loss of salary
537513/03/2016, 09:10 - A Collins: The 19 day weekend definitely sounds like a bit of a headline grabber. I like the sound of this
537613/03/2016, 09:14 - A Yassaee: Can I quickly say something about narrative please if there's time - happy to wait
537713/03/2016, 09:16 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Me next
537813/03/2016, 09:24 - A Sami: For the benefit of those on the phone:
5379
5380aaron [9:09 AM]:
5381same here- most elective work was running here. 
5382
5383aaron [9:09 AM]:
5384they have been using ANPs or having consultants/SAS assisting with the cancellation of SPAs.
5385
5386Amjad [9:10 AM] (publicly):
5387Yeah! Effectively, 10 days of Emergency Care
5388
5389Amjad [9:10 AM] (publicly):
5390Either before or after Easter
5391
5392aaron [9:10 AM]:
5393While clinics have been reduced it isn't by much. Some consultants get a bit annoyed by this as they are having to work harder
5394
5395Amjad [9:11 AM] (publicly):
5396We had nearly 400 clinic appointments cancelled in Grimsby but only 15 Endoscopies and 7 surgical procedures
5397
5398ljd [9:11 AM]:
5399won't have time to take that decision to JDC - would need to announce tomorrow, prob?
5400
5401Kitty [9:11 AM]:
5402agree with you jdc. 
5403
5404Amjad [9:12 AM] (publicly):
54057 days notice is all what is needed. Either before or after Easter
5406
5407Kitty [9:13 AM]:
5408if we do it after easter it's two weeks from this monday
5409
5410Amjad [9:14 AM] (publicly):
5411Which gives us time to discuss it at the JDC on Friday, Kitty
5412
5413Amjad [9:15 AM] (publicly):
5414But there is the dispute committee to take it to...
5415
5416Kitty [9:15 AM]:
5417in terms of our reps planning for this - i'd say that one week is not enough. 
5418
5419zoe [9:15 AM]:
5420then do what we did last time and offer if we ask about escalation on the listserver jdc will unequivocally agree then give open VC times with johann to discuss it
5421
5422Amjad [9:17 AM] (publicly):
5423Reasonable suggestion, Zoe.
5424
5425Kitty, true for time, but I think most of our reps now know what to do in terms of organising Picket lines. It is the other activities that takes time
5426
5427Kitty [9:18 AM]:
5428yes and many have organised events for next ia already. that's fine but bringing IA earlier could cause issues. that's all i mean. 
5429
5430zoe [9:18 AM]:
5431i'm not saying it would be easy, but i think it would be worth it and the difficulty created for government would outweigh the difficulty faced by our reps
5432
5433Andrew Collier [9:18 AM]:
5434I wonder whether bringing IA forward may have a problem in that there wouldn't be sufficent time to get the government to agree to talks.
5435
5436Bethan [9:19 AM]:
5437^agree, Zoe
5438
5439aaron [9:19 AM]:
5440is it too hard to apply?
5441
5442Bethan [9:19 AM]:
5443Yannis would like to speak
5444
5445Kitty [9:19 AM]:
5446i agree - but we need to communication properly. 4 days of crap IA will end this but not in a good way
5447
5448Donna Tooth [9:19 AM]:
5449and arrash about narrative
5450
5451Andrew Collier [9:19 AM]:
5452I don't think we should have an honest broker, we would become hostages to fortune.
5453
5454zoe [9:20 AM]:
5455from what i've heard, it seems to be quite strict criteria, you have to pretty much be in debt to get money, rather than just making ends meet each month and afraid of tipping into the red
5456
5457aaron [9:20 AM]:
5458thats not great. I can't see people getting into debt 
5459
5460Kitty [9:20 AM]:
5461... and then you get up to £200
5462
5463aaron [9:20 AM]:
5464just to apply for help. 
5465
5466aaron [9:20 AM]:
5467I didn't realise how limited the support was
5468
5469Amjad [9:20 AM] (publicly):
5470Lauren Robson has detailed the challenges of applying to the Hardship Fund
5471
5472Kitty [9:21 AM]:
5473people may be away over easter - i can't work out if that is good or bad
5474
5475zoe [9:22 AM]:
5476the thing is if we don't move it, then we lose the advantage of the bank holiday, to get a week we cost our members more, or we continue with the current plan which everyone has already agreed is not working
5477
5478aaron [9:22 AM]:
5479arranging action based on a london mayor election will not go down well in the provinces 
5480
5481Amjad [9:22 AM] (publicly):
5482THe attraction of Easter is that it is already 4 days weekend. And to add 4 days of IA, the total will be 11 days of Emergency Cover
5483
5484Amjad [9:23 AM] (publicly):
5485As opposed to 10 days in any other bank holiday
548613/03/2016, 09:29 - D Tooth: And I worry whether members will take four days of IA. In a row.
548713/03/2016, 09:34 - A Yassaee: This is getting a bit disjointed - can we stick to an order please?
548813/03/2016, 09:35 - A Yassaee: (Phone, not WhatsApp! )
548913/03/2016, 09:36 - M Redman: How long have we actually got here?
549013/03/2016, 09:36 - A Yassaee: If we did it the week after Easter..... could we get the priming effect of that long weekend?
549113/03/2016, 09:37 - A Yassaee: (I mean starting april 4th)
549213/03/2016, 09:39 - A Yassaee: Can we also start talking about the strike being an insight to what the NHS looks under the new contract (recruitment crisis etc)
549313/03/2016, 09:39 - L Boyle: I gotta go, sorry
549413/03/2016, 09:40 - L Boyle: But Easter - do it
549513/03/2016, 09:40 - L Boyle: Hit these fuckers hard
549613/03/2016, 09:40 - A Collins: I'm with Luke on this one. I also have to go, I've invited an unknown number of people for breakfast...
549713/03/2016, 09:41 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Although i remain skeptical r.e moving the dayes forward to easter... Ellens contribution and rationale on this has been the most compelling argument i have heard so far.
549813/03/2016, 09:42 - L Boyle: EASTER??
549913/03/2016, 09:42 - L Boyle: 2/52 is plenty of time
550013/03/2016, 09:42 - A Yassaee: Could we just extend the first IA period?
550113/03/2016, 09:42 - L Boyle: You don't want to give trusts that much notice for reasons Zoe outlined
550213/03/2016, 09:43 - A Yassaee: If its a JDC issue
550313/03/2016, 09:47 - K Mohan: Agree. Ellen convinced me.
550413/03/2016, 09:48 - K Mohan: We prob shouldn't be discussing this on this group.
550513/03/2016, 09:48 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Just a quick further point...some of us implied initially that if the next batch does not achieve what we want that we should pack up and go home. Of course successful IA in march/april/may is really important but we DO need to educate our membership that this kind of industrial dispute can last a LONG time. This will not be over by xmas. Also...to be clear...i am absolutely aware that there will be risks the longer this goes on. But those risks can be addressed by educating our members.
550613/03/2016, 09:49 - A Yassaee: ^ yannis and I are one on this
550713/03/2016, 10:22 - K Mohan: So how does this new Ben white stuff fit in? This sounds worryingly like Remedy? "The Bma is shit and we're going to sort everything out".
550813/03/2016, 10:24 - A Yassaee: I can chat to him next week
550913/03/2016, 10:24 - A Yassaee: Or we could ask Marie
551013/03/2016, 10:26 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
551113/03/2016, 10:26 - D Rouse: Tell ppl to be carful
551213/03/2016, 10:28 - A Borbora: And not to say moronic and offensive things
551313/03/2016, 10:46 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ben White is ok. Have worked with him in back in my days of acute med. He is not looking to obstruct the BMA. I have great reservations about the huge amoint of cash he needs to raise.
551413/03/2016, 10:46 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I keep in touch with him
551513/03/2016, 10:47 - Y Gourtsouyannis: If u have questions to him i could ask
551613/03/2016, 10:59 - J Malawana: He approached mark and didn't really get a response. Mainly I suspect because the actual Jr. is a fishing exercise rather than with a definitive plan. I think the best way to approach it is just to give them the space to do what they want to do.
551713/03/2016, 13:40 - L J Davis: Is this the crowd funding jr?
551813/03/2016, 13:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Yes
551913/03/2016, 13:54 - K Mohan: I'm concerned actually that they seem to feel it is ok to make these statements but yet say they support you, Johann, like you're not the Bma. It's ridiculously unhelpful. I've had my reps upset this morning as they take it is a slight against them. It may be aimed at mark but Mark alone isn't "the Bma".
552013/03/2016, 14:09 - A Yassaee: I can speak to Ben in person next week if exec wants
552113/03/2016, 14:13 - J Malawana: I know.
552213/03/2016, 14:13 - J Malawana: I am wondering how to raise this with them.
552313/03/2016, 14:13 - J Malawana: Keen not to create another Chris day scenario
552413/03/2016, 14:14 - J Malawana: Or remedy as Tom d suggested
552513/03/2016, 14:19 - A Yassaee: Given the judgement are we releasing a statement on Chris Day's case?
552613/03/2016, 14:42 - L J Davis: We will be. Viv was away end of next week, but he's putting something together...
552713/03/2016, 17:46 - J Malawana: You guys listening?
552813/03/2016, 17:46 - J Malawana: Anything need to get across?
552913/03/2016, 17:47 - E McCourt: You're doing good!
553013/03/2016, 17:47 - D Tooth: Where?
553113/03/2016, 17:47 - E McCourt: Lbc
553213/03/2016, 17:49 - D Tooth: Am now! Adverts at minute
553313/03/2016, 17:56 - E McCourt: I'm reasonably certain "jazz" is Shaz...
553413/03/2016, 18:02 - J Malawana: I know. I thought that!!
553513/03/2016, 18:10 - D Rouse: What are people listening to
553613/03/2016, 18:11 - D Tooth: Yes that's what I thought but didn't wanna say it
553713/03/2016, 21:25 - K Mohan: I have no idea what that discussion was about. Who was on LBC.
553813/03/2016, 21:26 - D Tooth: yoyo
553913/03/2016, 21:26 - E McCourt: Yoyochatshow
554013/03/2016, 21:28 - K Mohan: Oooooh. Could we have rung in and asked him questions. Amazing. :)
554113/03/2016, 21:41 - K Mohan: So #justhealth have raised just under £50000 so far.
554214/03/2016, 18:26 - J Malawana: Melody getting positive feedback from the lib dems about you. Heard was standing room only :-)
554314/03/2016, 18:27 - M Redman: Aw that's good. ?? Yeah a fair few were stood throughout- it only seated 70 though so it wasn't like there were 100s of people.
554414/03/2016, 18:34 - L J Davis: 70 Lib dems? That's like. All of them?
554514/03/2016, 18:34 - L J Davis: Ever?
554614/03/2016, 18:34 - L J Davis: Lol
554714/03/2016, 18:35 - J Malawana: Don't be mean.
554814/03/2016, 18:35 - J Malawana: :-)
554915/03/2016, 07:16 - H Carter: In terms of Cumming's letter
555015/03/2016, 07:18 - H Carter: He looks quite desperate. I suspect some of his recent political moves haven't pleased the genuinely impartial ones on his board.
555115/03/2016, 07:20 - A Yassaee: He might just be upset at the hundreds of posts highlighting that's he not a real professor
555215/03/2016, 07:21 - A Collins: Lol
555315/03/2016, 12:13 - A Yassaee: What time do we anticipate JDC finishing on Friday? I a meeting at RCP and they want a time.
555415/03/2016, 13:48 - A Yassaee: So this patient safety conference hunt is speaking at.. Tickets cost £378 each
555515/03/2016, 13:49 - A Yassaee: 'Not enough doctors' for 7-day NHS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35779006
5556
5557Also this if people haven't seen yet.
555815/03/2016, 13:59 - A Collins: I think Harriet snuck in for free if anyone's interests f
555915/03/2016, 15:58 - D Rouse: One of our em trainees is Sitting in the lead provider meeting. 216/340 of next year's st1 posts provisionally filled by application nationally.
556015/03/2016, 15:58 - D Rouse: Oh dear
556115/03/2016, 15:59 - A Collier How does that compare with previous fill rates?
556215/03/2016, 15:59 - E McCourt: How does that compare to fill rate at this stage on previous years?
556315/03/2016, 15:59 - E McCourt: (Oops)
556415/03/2016, 16:06 - D Rouse: Down at the moment but this was the first round
556515/03/2016, 16:07 - D Rouse: People get optomism from second round filling. However from experience those people don't stay in the specialism it is just a bridging mechanism
556615/03/2016, 16:07 - D Rouse: We're were 100% fill rate 2013
556715/03/2016, 16:07 - D Rouse: I believe
556815/03/2016, 16:07 - D Rouse: Also people are dropping out at st3
556915/03/2016, 16:09 - A Sami: I know of an F2 who applied this year and deemed appointable but not offered a job in EM.
5570
5571How does that work?
557215/03/2016, 16:12 - D Rouse: No idea.
557315/03/2016, 16:13 - D Rouse: They think that £1500 is going to save the specilism
557415/03/2016, 16:13 - D Rouse: This contract is toxic for EM Neonates ICM Acute Med and Paeds. The very specialisms required to ensure safe 7 day care.
557515/03/2016, 16:14 - D Rouse: This isn't forgetting mental health who has been Cinderella for so long
557615/03/2016, 16:14 - K Mohan: guys, could we discuss this by list server. it's interesting but prob best retaining on the list server at least so we're able to ever find those figures again...
557715/03/2016, 16:15 - D Rouse: Just feel sick so angry
557815/03/2016, 16:39 - E McCourt: David - are you actually at the meeting? Can you pass my email on to whoever is?
557915/03/2016, 16:39 - D Rouse: I can ask them to make contact
558015/03/2016, 16:40 - D Rouse: Which email
558115/03/2016, 16:42 - D Rouse: Emccourt@bma.org.uk
558215/03/2016, 16:46 - E McCourt: Lovely. Yes please.
558315/03/2016, 17:11 - D Rouse: Just had a very very angry future RCEM president at me
558415/03/2016, 17:12 - D Rouse: Explaining that we should put a statement out thanking em doctors
558515/03/2016, 17:12 - D Rouse: For continuing to provide care and taking the brunt of the work load
558615/03/2016, 17:12 - D Rouse: May be something worth thinking about
558715/03/2016, 17:12 - A Yassaee: How future?
558815/03/2016, 17:15 - D Rouse: Likely very likely to win
558915/03/2016, 17:16 - A Yassaee: So next-in-line future
559015/03/2016, 17:28 - D Rouse: Johann thoughts
559115/03/2016, 19:05 - M Redman: When Johann doesn't come to Yorkshire...
559215/03/2016, 19:06 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
559315/03/2016, 19:09 - M Redman: 9 people representing thousands... ??
559415/03/2016, 19:48 - B Roberts: You have very glamorous table covers at your meetings!
559515/03/2016, 19:52 - M Redman: It's at a golf club lol
559615/03/2016, 19:53 - M Redman: #moetmedics
559715/03/2016, 22:32 - K Mohan: My mother just sent me a message consisting entirely of EMOJIS!!! Next thing she'll be saying totes...Hmm.
559815/03/2016, 22:33 - M Redman: Momma mohan
559915/03/2016, 22:33 - M Redman: What a babe
560015/03/2016, 22:37 - K Mohan: i may have to disown her.
560116/03/2016, 11:27 - Z Greaves: Can we have a summary of what disputes committee said in the context of what was discussed at exec on Sunday please Johann?
560216/03/2016, 12:20 - M Redman: What's happening about the survey?
560316/03/2016, 15:51 - D Rouse: You will all be happy to know blueberry is recovering from his operation and is convalescing at home.
560416/03/2016, 15:54 - A Collins: Aww, what op?
560516/03/2016, 15:55 - K Mohan: WHY DID YOU ASK THIS?!?
560616/03/2016, 15:55 - K Mohan: NOOOOOOO
560716/03/2016, 15:55 - A Collins: BECAUSE I CARE KITTY!
560816/03/2016, 15:55 - K Mohan: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
560916/03/2016, 16:11 - Z Greaves: Poor blue :(
561016/03/2016, 16:11 - D Rouse: Had his cough balls off
561116/03/2016, 16:12 - A Collins: Aww. Hope he feels better so.
561216/03/2016, 16:12 - A Collins: *soon
561316/03/2016, 18:34 - M Redman: The awkward moment when Derek gallen calls you Susan TWICE in one meeting
561416/03/2016, 18:34 - M Redman: (As in Susan redward- ginge from gmc)
561516/03/2016, 19:10 - J Malawana: Zoe have stuck it on the listserver.
561616/03/2016, 19:20 - Z Greaves: As in my friends dilemma that I sent to Ellen?
561716/03/2016, 19:24 - Z Greaves: She asked me to keep it very low profile/anonymous as she hasn't decided what to do yet and if she accepts there could be repercussions for other trainees who are as yet unknown and she's very worried about screwing up someone else's life!
561816/03/2016, 19:25 - Z Greaves: If you haven't yet please don't
561916/03/2016, 19:26 - J Malawana: No the thinking behind the survey
562016/03/2016, 19:27 - J Malawana: No idea what you're talking about with your friend. Ellen not said anything :-)
562116/03/2016, 19:27 - A Collier Though we are now all intrigued!
562216/03/2016, 19:27 - M Redman: Johann are
562316/03/2016, 19:28 - M Redman: Oops. Are you happy for me to put about FSD comments 're Arcp straight on jdc or should i discuss on exec first
562416/03/2016, 19:28 - M Redman: Essentially once they're over20 days, it's down to local discretion even if it's 21 days
562516/03/2016, 19:29 - J Malawana: Stick on JDC.
562616/03/2016, 19:29 - M Redman: Ok ta
562716/03/2016, 19:29 - J Malawana: Try and get a written thing.
562816/03/2016, 19:37 - D Rouse: Johann
562916/03/2016, 19:37 - D Rouse: Did u get my message re emergency Med
563016/03/2016, 19:42 - M Redman: Written from ukfpo? I asked for standardised msging- they said no as no longer national issue as England only. some FSDs really supportive. Some not. (I've put this on list)
563116/03/2016, 19:43 - Z Greaves: Ah that's ok then - just an e&t thing
563216/03/2016, 19:44 - Z Greaves: My question was about disputes committee not survey lol
563316/03/2016, 20:47 - A Sami: Anyone booked into the Pullman for tomorrow? If so, how much did it cost? I have a bit disorganised lately and trying to book it now. 
5634
5635It says the negotiated rate for the BMA to be £245!
563616/03/2016, 20:48 - A Collier Hilton is still within the limits
563716/03/2016, 20:48 - A Collier Even lower if you use the PR11PN code
563816/03/2016, 20:49 - A Sami: Thank you, Andrew! I will check it out. Did the building work finish there?
563916/03/2016, 21:01 - A Sami: All bookef and sorted for £176!
5640
5641Thank you, Andrew :)
564216/03/2016, 21:01 - A Collier Not sure, I know lots of the rooms have now been upgraded.
564316/03/2016, 21:02 - B Roberts: Coming up on Friday morning so won't be around for Pullman "fun" tomorrow. Chances are I won't be clammy and grey at JDC for that very reason...