· 9 years ago · May 02, 2017, 01:10 PM
1[Ambassadors] [Undernet-channel] To all of us
2
3Richard Berger info at castleofmarble.com
4Thu Feb 11 20:09:19 UTC 2016
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8Thanks for the summary. My talk with Guven and my advice to him are
9essentially as you summarized. One point however, Guven did ask if I
10thought then that a /quit message (as you have shown a copy here) was
11appropriate and I told him that I do think it is indeed a more
12appropriate way of expressing his thought so long as he does not quit
13every few minutes and thereby turn it into spam and flood.
14
15Guven is a nice guy and has gone over the edge on this in the view of
16many of us, his friends. I do hope we can continue to work with him and
17simply request from him that he curtail specific activities we see that
18we find inappropriate and that he think about similar ones before
19initiating them. If guven gives his word that he will comply on
20something, I believe we can rely on it. Removing access is not needed in
21such circumstances.
22
23Cowstradamus
24
25On 2/11/2016 11:21 AM, chalcedony wrote:
26> Empus, Everyone,
27>
28> I hope that we will continue to use this mail list to chat, and
29> discuss channel related issues. I was away, but let me catch up now.
30>
31> After Guven's first mail, of Feb 8 at 5:37 AM, which I replied to, on
32> Feb 8 at 6:26 AM, requesting that he contact Cowstradamus, Guven made
33> one other reply, but at that time he had been removed from the list.
34>
35> Guven did finally get to speak with Cowstradamus (NudeDude) - who,
36> after many hours of conversation, said that he basically suggested
37> that Guven's approach was not going to win him any friends, and would
38> cost him many instead, and not help Islaam, either. So, he could keep
39> it up and be abusive, or he could try a different approach, by simply
40> telling someone they were wrong if they said something he felt was
41> anti Islaam .. and then invite them to his own channel to discuss it
42> further if they wanted to.
43>
44> This is pretty much advice that was given to Guven weeks ago, when he
45> was attacking people, engaging in longwinded arguments, and preaching
46> in lots of our channels.
47>
48> We gave him many chances.
49>
50> Guven continues to leave messages such as:
51>
52> [07:47:41] * guven has quit (Quit: On the day when their faces will be
53> turned from side to side on the hell fire, they will say, "Would that
54> we had obeyed God and the Messenger!" They will say, "Lord, we obeyed
55> our chiefs and elders and they caused us to go astray. Lord, make them
56> to suffer double torment and subject them to the greatest
57> condemnation." Believers, do not be like those who annoyed Moses. God
58> proved him to be innocent of what they had said about him. Moses was a
59> honorabl)
60>
61> Removing Guven from the mail list was not an abrupt decision, but one
62> made with concern and regret, to prevent things flying out of hand,
63> and keep the discussion between those who needed to be parties to it.
64>
65> ErickM replied to Guven, I spoke with him and explained that he would
66> need to contact Guven off the list.
67>
68> Empus, thank you for your nice reply.
69>
70> Guven joined #undernet when he realized his mails weren't going to
71> reach all the people. He began to attack there. At that point, he was
72> removed from User-com.
73>
74> Certainly, if he is willing to talk, and if things straighten out, he
75> is a good friend and long time member, we can consider whether adding
76> him back would be advisable.
77>
78> When someone attacks, or breaks rules, moderators need to respond.
79>
80> Guven is trying to silence all negative discussion of Islam, including
81> the legitimate topic in the news, and this election, of Radical
82> Islamic Terrorism, and the reasons for the proposed ban on Muslim
83> immigrants.
84>
85> People drive their agendas in different ways, trying to dominate.
86>
87> It has been suggested that we block all communication about anything
88> to do with certain subjects. I don't think that has ever worked well.
89>
90> News is a big part of what the User Committee is doing these days to
91> stimulate interest and discussion.
92>
93> The Undernet User Committee has always sought fair, reasonable
94> dialogues on every subject, from prostitutes, to church pew pads, to
95> tractors, and walking barefoot in the desert at night.
96>
97> We shouldn't allow anyone to force their agenda on the free speech
98> that IRC allows.
99>
100> If you have problems, Indian, Rusteaux, any of our senior staff, and
101> I, are here.
102>
103> Thank you very much for being part of our community.
104>
105> ((((( hugs )))))
106>
107>
108> chalcedony
109> Undernet User-com Coordinator
110>
111> On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Empus <empus at undernet.org
112> <mailto:empus at undernet.org>> wrote:
113>
114> I'm away at the moment and without a laptop so will be brief
115> typing from my phone.
116>
117> I've had a couple of emails on this subject and will respond to
118> those individuals separately, but I most definitely feel that this
119> type of debate does not belong on this mailing this, or likely any
120> Undernet mailing list.
121>
122> We all know each other because we have a connection with one
123> another. We may not all be the same age or agree all the time, but
124> we have a level of maturity or we wouldn't interact on a daily
125> basis with one another (this isn't a job, nor are we in a prison).
126>
127> If there is a breach of Undernet AUP there are ways to report
128> that-- all of you on this list are well across those avenues.
129>
130> If, on the other hand there are personal disagreements these need
131> to be dealt with on a personal level, not on a group mailing list.
132>
133> Frustration is one thing, anger is the next, and abuse is
134> damaging. But if those emotions relate to an individual, address
135> it with them or those that are responsible for them.
136>
137> Topics like those that this all started from are contentious. The
138> world has problems. But inciting emotional and angered debated in
139> a public or semi-public forum are counter productive.
140>
141> Keep it in your pants people, we are better than this.
142>
143> We are all human. Deal with it. Keep it off this list please,
144> let's not make the situation worse.
145>
146> Talk in private or report real abuse to the networks abuse department.
147>
148> Happy chatting. ASL? :>
149>
150> Cheers,
151>
152> - Empus
153>
154>
155> On Tuesday, February 9, 2016, Eric Cruz <ericlbarros at gmail.com
156> <mailto:ericlbarros at gmail.com>> wrote:
157>
158> Guven,
159>
160> I like you but i think you are overreacting with all this
161> muslim crap. I live in a country full of racism and i dont
162> keep crying to mom because of that. That email Just reminds me
163> of #constitution. Everytime i AM around you are fighting with
164> someone accusing them of being racist to muslims. I strongly
165> advise you looking for profissional advisors for this matter,
166> the world doesnt spin around muslims.
167>
168> Take care.
169>
170> Em 08/02/2016 09:25, "chalcedony" <chalcedony at undernet.org>
171> escreveu:
172>
173> Dear Guven,
174>
175> I'm sorry for your feelings being hurt.
176>
177> Rules apply to all, equally, and hopefully with a gentle hand.
178>
179> I don't appreciate what you're doing. Perhaps you could
180> think better of yourself and your friends before making a
181> fool of yourself in public email, or with network admins.
182>
183> Please speak with Cowstradamus.
184>
185>
186> chalcedony
187>
188> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 5:33 AM, Guven KARA
189> <guvenkara at live.com> wrote:
190>
191>
192> Does Rules #1 and #3 valid for everyone?
193>
194> I have doubt that. You said that No one can slander
195> "user-com management" but if there are logs that says
196> it is not true, situation changes. I won't discuss
197> that around but I've reported it to the authorities/
198> required places. I have always respected you since
199> I've been on undernet and still I do. I've done my all
200> for you and any projects we are in. But I dont believe
201> you are objective moderator/coordinator any more. I
202> see very well what you and your (muslim hater) friends
203> telling about muslims in public user-com channels. I
204> see for what global notices are especially sending to
205> invite people to channels. There was no SUCH THING
206> (hating muslims) in the past years around As a muslim
207> member of undernet and some user-com channels. I do
208> NOT appreciate that and I honestly say that it breaks
209> our heart. I've never supported any evil/bad muslim
210> group in ANY channel of undernet. It is not a good
211> idea to demonise muslims through newspaper links (some
212> are true but some are not reflecting the facts)
213>
214> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
215> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 03:32:52 -0500
216> From: chalcedony at undernet.org
217> To: undernet-channel at undernet.org;
218> ug-training at undernet.org; ambassadors at undernet.org
219> Subject: [Undernet-channel] To all of us
220>
221>
222> The Undernet User Committee
223>
224>
225> /\
226> ( ;`~v/~~~ ;._
227> ,/'"/^) ' < o\ '".~'\\\--,
228> ,/",/W u '`. ~ >,._.., )'
229> ,/' w ,U^v ;//^)/')/^\;~)'
230> ,/"'/ W` ^v W |; )/'
231> ;'' | v' v`" W } \\
232> " .'\ v `v/^W,) '\)\.)\/)
233> `\ ,/,)' ''')/^"-;'
234> \
235> ".
236> \ ~{Robert Kirkpatrick}~
237>
238>
239> Do you know that you and I are not monsters? Just people.
240> That's right.
241>
242> In our own selves there is bad and good, but we are
243> not here to harm people, fight global battles, or make
244> anyone feel badly.
245>
246> Sometimes disgruntled people say things about a
247> channel's management, a company with whom the have
248> have done business, or someone they had a fight with.
249>
250> There are global forces in the world, and the world
251> may take sides. In Football, we choose teams to support.
252>
253> Undernet functions because all of us are here,
254> chatting, making friends, carrying on a nearly thirty
255> year legacy of Internet Relay Chat.
256>
257> We have some standard rules of decorum, you can see a
258> version of them in the #undernet channel topic at:
259> http://www.user-com.undernet.org/undernet-channel.php
260>
261> 1. Always treat other people as you would want to be
262> treated.
263>
264> 2. #Undernet is an international channel, speak
265> English, so that everyone can understand you. People
266> can say a few lines in their own language, but not for
267> pages and pages. No extensive solo rants.
268>
269> 3. Your language reflects who you are. No slanderous
270> or discriminatory language, including racial slurs.
271> Respect yourself and others.
272>
273> I appreciate that all of us do these things without
274> thinking. It is how we ARE. Our attitudes are clear.
275>
276> When someone wants to slander User-com it's wrong.
277>
278> Please take a few moments to think kind thoughts or
279> pray for the User Committee, Undernet and it's members.
280>
281> We stand together. Let no one break us apart.
282>
283> (((((((((( hugs ))))))))))
284>
285>
286> chalcedony
287> Linda
288> Undernet User-com Coordinator
289>
290>
291>
292> _______________________________________________
293> Undernet-channel mailing list
294> Undernet-channel at undernet.sbg.org
295> http://undernet.sbg.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/undernet-channel
296>
297> _______________________________________________
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301>
302>
303>
304> _______________________________________________
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306> Undernet-channel at undernet.sbg.org
307> http://undernet.sbg.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/undernet-channel
308>
309>
310> _______________________________________________
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315>
316>