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1[2016-06-28 10:57:48 PM] Feedback: ACTIVATE IT
2[2016-06-28 11:01:20 PM] *** King Lear added Gannon Murphy, Duke Silver, HT☆Rock, Myuer ***
3[2016-06-28 11:01:22 PM] *** King Lear added Gannon Murphy, Duke Silver, HT☆Rock, Myuer ***
4[2016-06-28 11:01:34 PM] King Lear: Fuck it Myuer doesn't get a choice.
5[2016-06-28 11:01:55 PM] King Lear: Also I don't have BGP on Skype.
6[2016-06-28 11:02:06 PM] Feedback: I'm sure someone here's gotta have him
7[2016-06-28 11:02:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: BGP has wrong opinions anyway
8[2016-06-28 11:02:16 PM] Feedback: oh well
9[2016-06-28 11:03:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: can I just say vanilla 1.04 77/88/99?
10[2016-06-28 11:03:16 PM] King Lear: Anyway welcome to the circus of rules. Where I pass responsibility onto people who aren't me.
11[2016-06-28 11:05:57 PM] King Lear: I mean Carma the Moeshit Cup's rules looked pretty shit.
12[2016-06-28 11:06:18 PM] King Lear: I think 1.04 vanilla is a solid choice but can we do better than solid?
13[2016-06-28 11:06:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean 81/90/99 is either an improvement or nothing at all
14[2016-06-28 11:07:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: except that it gets rid of two dubses
15[2016-06-28 11:10:14 PM] King Lear: I think adding everyone when they're asleep was a bad choice. Also >no DF.
16[2016-06-28 11:10:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: what
17[2016-06-28 11:10:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: why >no DF
18[2016-06-28 11:10:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: pes 14 1.12
19[2016-06-28 11:10:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
20[2016-06-28 11:10:47 PM] Feedback: ^
21[2016-06-28 11:10:57 PM] King Lear: I was trying to figure out how permissions worked and SOMEONE decided to add DF for a laugh.
22[2016-06-28 11:11:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
23[2016-06-28 11:11:17 PM] Feedback: [conspiracies intensify]
24[2016-06-28 11:11:51 PM] King Lear: You know who you are.
25[2016-06-28 11:12:13 PM] Feedback: I'm Feedback.
26[2016-06-28 11:12:15 PM] Feedback: I knew that.
27[2016-06-28 11:12:21 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm memeback
28[2016-06-28 11:12:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: I know that
29[2016-06-28 11:14:32 PM] Gannon Murphy: can I suggest moving up the height brackets 5cm
30[2016-06-28 11:14:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: the max is 210
31[2016-06-28 11:14:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: but out brackets go up to 205
32[2016-06-28 11:15:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: can I suggest removing height brackets
33[2016-06-28 11:15:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: or that
34[2016-06-28 11:15:43 PM] Feedback: I'd actually be open to removing the points-for-height nerf
35[2016-06-28 11:15:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: or reducing it, yeah
36[2016-06-28 11:15:58 PM] Feedback: considering it was only implemented after Boris' kneejerk reaction to Tom /wg/ after Autumn 14
37[2016-06-28 11:15:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: like a 2-1-0
38[2016-06-28 11:16:14 PM] King Lear: So go back to the old heights?
39[2016-06-28 11:16:25 PM] Feedback: The height rules we had post summer 13 were fine imo
40[2016-06-28 11:16:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: well we fixed the problem with Autumn '14 /b/ and /wg/ by getting rid of the 25 card limit
41[2016-06-28 11:16:35 PM] Smugleaf: aeiou?
42[2016-06-28 11:16:37 PM] King Lear: I do miss seeing 205 strikers like Bert just tower over the little defenders.
43[2016-06-28 11:17:00 PM] Smugleaf: There was some talk about changing the height rules actually
44[2016-06-28 11:17:06 PM] Smugleaf: Something Tony first suggested
45[2016-06-28 11:17:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: Autumn '14 /wg/ if you're remember had a 165cm player with reduced stats
46[2016-06-28 11:17:11 PM] Smugleaf: No one likes their manlets
47[2016-06-28 11:17:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: and then Boris shat on them all cup for never playing him
48[2016-06-28 11:17:29 PM] Smugleaf: We should remove the first 2 height brackets and move it to 175-179
49[2016-06-28 11:17:38 PM] King Lear: Tony brought it up way back then didn't in Winter and well Spring was something else from him.
50[2016-06-28 11:17:40 PM] Feedback: wasn't that originally given as some manner of nerf?
51[2016-06-28 11:17:40 PM] Smugleaf: And yeah, bring back the 205 dudes
52[2016-06-28 11:17:49 PM] Feedback: I remember /wg/ having to start that manlet for one game
53[2016-06-28 11:17:56 PM] Feedback: and eventually subbing him off
54[2016-06-28 11:18:02 PM] Smugleaf: Yeah he was 155
55[2016-06-28 11:18:07 PM] King Lear: Also Smugleaf do you have BGP on Skype?
56[2016-06-28 11:18:10 PM] Smugleaf: no lol
57[2016-06-28 11:18:19 PM] Feedback: does -anyone- have BGP here?
58[2016-06-28 11:18:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: I would be down to have like a tit-for-tat system, where every player in a bracket above the default bracket has to have a counterpart the same number of brackets below
59[2016-06-28 11:18:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: or something
60[2016-06-28 11:18:34 PM] Feedback: I don't hate it.
61[2016-06-28 11:18:59 PM] King Lear: However I do not want to just do something because "eh what could go wrong".
62[2016-06-28 11:19:18 PM] Smugleaf: I think Tony's reasoning was to see more players getting playtime
63[2016-06-28 11:19:28 PM] Smugleaf: As some managers literally don't play players that are 165
64[2016-06-28 11:19:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: it would be fun to see Boris' salt when he fires up the first day of summer and every team is all 210cm players
65[2016-06-28 11:19:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: :^ )
66[2016-06-28 11:19:54 PM] Feedback: I'll be honest, I completely forget my player heights after shooting out the export
67[2016-06-28 11:19:56 PM] Smugleaf: I myself chose a tiebreaker in a /gd/ poll because I simply didn't want 165 Minimalism as a medal
68[2016-06-28 11:20:07 PM] Feedback: it's never made a big enough difference for me to give a shit
69[2016-06-28 11:20:28 PM] Smugleaf: I try and play the taller players if they have the right conditioning
70[2016-06-28 11:20:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: I always make Yee the manlet and sit him out as much as possible just because I can easily remember that Yee is tiny
71[2016-06-28 11:20:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: which sucks because I like Yee but I'd forget if it was someone else
72[2016-06-28 11:20:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: he plays a vital role on the team that way
73[2016-06-28 11:42:29 PM] *** King Lear added Denkocchi ***
74[2016-06-28 11:42:37 PM] King Lear: What's the worst that could happen.
75[2016-06-28 11:42:47 PM] Denkocchi: hi dragonfag puppet here
76[2016-06-28 11:42:55 PM] Denkocchi: oh wait Smugleaf is already here
77[2016-06-28 11:43:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: did you just say we shouldn't do that, Lear
78[2016-06-28 11:43:15 PM] Denkocchi: it was joke
79[2016-06-28 11:43:21 PM] Feedback: the only joke is this
80[2016-06-28 11:43:23 PM] *** Feedback unzips dick ***
81[2016-06-28 11:43:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: nice meme you got there
82[2016-06-28 11:43:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: I hope you have a liscence
83[2016-06-28 11:43:48 PM] King Lear: Meme about DF all you want, just know he's not actually going to be added.
84[2016-06-28 11:43:52 PM] Feedback: because it's me it can't be a meme
85[2016-06-28 11:43:58 PM] Feedback: it's in the constitution somewhere
86[2016-06-28 11:43:59 PM] Denkocchi: anyway let's get this out of the way now
87[2016-06-28 11:44:01 PM] Denkocchi: ahem
88[2016-06-28 11:44:01 PM] Smugleaf: But I'm right here
89[2016-06-28 11:44:08 PM] Denkocchi: harlock
90[2016-06-28 11:44:12 PM] *** King Lear added Collie Bro ***
91[2016-06-28 11:44:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: no
92[2016-06-28 11:44:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: can I make a petition to only have Pot 1 managers in here :^ )
93[2016-06-28 11:44:40 PM] Denkocchi: hey way to let moeshit into the /ag/L btw collie
94[2016-06-28 11:44:44 PM] Denkocchi: you ruined it
95[2016-06-28 11:44:51 PM] King Lear: omg I'm so drunk right now.
96[2016-06-28 11:45:02 PM] Collie Bro: clearly, I was let in :^ )
97[2016-06-28 11:45:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: if only because I don't want to share tictacal jeans with potential groupmates
98Smugleaf
99[2016-06-28 11:45:25 PM] King Lear: Seriously though, I do want a semblance of good ideas from you.
100[2016-06-28 11:45:31 PM] Feedback: [June 28, 2016 11:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
101
102<<< if only because I don't want to share tictacal jeans with potential groupmatesI will find you in the knockouts once again and destroy you.
103[2016-06-28 11:45:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: ay mang
104[2016-06-28 11:45:42 PM] Denkocchi: well my "genuine good idea" is being put on display next week
105[2016-06-28 11:45:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'll 2-2 you again I swer
106[2016-06-28 11:45:51 PM] Denkocchi: when it all crashes and burns I can leave
107[2016-06-28 11:45:53 PM] Denkocchi: although
108[2016-06-28 11:45:53 PM] Feedback: We're off to a cracker of a start here at the rules dome
109[2016-06-28 11:45:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: and then win on pens
110[2016-06-28 11:46:01 PM] Denkocchi: vanilla 95/88/80 is good too
111[2016-06-28 11:46:04 PM] Denkocchi: imotbh
112[2016-06-28 11:46:10 PM] King Lear: Which patch?
113[2016-06-28 11:46:13 PM] Denkocchi: 1.04
114[2016-06-28 11:46:18 PM] Collie Bro: I've found 1.04 to be best
115[2016-06-28 11:46:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: Lear am I still admin
116[2016-06-28 11:46:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: Myuer was saying something about HeavenlyPond saying something about raising Form on nonmedals
117[2016-06-28 11:46:27 PM] Collie Bro: no harlock pls thnkz
118[2016-06-28 11:46:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'll kick everyone not in pot 1
119[2016-06-28 11:46:41 PM] Collie Bro: I'll kick you again jb
120[2016-06-28 11:46:46 PM] Collie Bro: fite me
121[2016-06-28 11:46:49 PM] HT☆Rock: carma you ain't got shit
122[2016-06-28 11:46:52 PM] Feedback: in the dark?
123[2016-06-28 11:46:56 PM] HT☆Rock: yo momma ain't got shit
124[2016-06-28 11:47:01 PM] HT☆Rock: yo daddy ain't got shit
125[2016-06-28 11:47:02 PM] Denkocchi: I'm the new /w/ manager btw so you can kick me :~)
126[2016-06-28 11:47:14 PM] HT☆Rock: but the height rules are fine the way they are
127[2016-06-28 11:47:18 PM] Gannon Murphy: hey don't talk shit about my mom or my mom's new boyfriend
128[2016-06-28 11:47:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh wait you said my dad
129[2016-06-28 11:47:34 PM] Denkocchi: [June 28, 2016 11:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
130
131<<< Myuer was saying something about HeavenlyPond saying something about raising Form on nonmedalsform 8
132[2016-06-28 11:47:37 PM] HT☆Rock: They're not even really a sizable nerf in the vanilla ruleset
133[2016-06-28 11:47:38 PM] Denkocchi: on keepers at least
134[2016-06-28 11:47:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: mywifesson is my favorite Iceland player
135[2016-06-28 11:47:47 PM] HT☆Rock: In the new setup, it hasn't been tested
136[2016-06-28 11:48:05 PM] Denkocchi: and where was this huge anti-harlock gang when I hopped on IRC last week
137[2016-06-28 11:48:13 PM] Denkocchi: lit only Twain said no
138[2016-06-28 11:48:21 PM] Feedback: probably 4ccg tbh
139[2016-06-28 11:48:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: I don't want Harlock
140[2016-06-28 11:48:30 PM] Collie Bro: I've been against harlock ever since I tested it desu
141[2016-06-28 11:48:44 PM] Denkocchi: if the issue is ratings that already has a patch
142[2016-06-28 11:48:44 PM] King Lear: Were you testing it on 1.04?
143[2016-06-28 11:49:13 PM] Collie Bro: I tested it on the original, didn't like it, and haven't put harlock back on since
144[2016-06-28 11:49:25 PM] HT☆Rock: That ain't helpful fam
145[2016-06-28 11:49:33 PM] Denkocchi: 1.03 and 1.04 harlock are very very different
146[2016-06-28 11:49:38 PM] HT☆Rock: ^
147[2016-06-28 11:49:38 PM] Feedback: ^
148[2016-06-28 11:49:43 PM] Denkocchi: based harlock not putting a changelog
149[2016-06-28 11:49:52 PM] HT☆Rock: let me finish elfgaming and I'll drop some knowledge
150[2016-06-28 11:49:52 PM] Denkocchi: luv u bby
151[2016-06-28 11:49:59 PM] Collie Bro: Fine, I guess I'll actually test stuff then
152[2016-06-28 11:50:02 PM] Denkocchi: sure I need to keep packing anyway
153[2016-06-28 11:50:02 PM] Collie Bro: jeez
154[2016-06-28 11:50:06 PM] Denkocchi: brb
155[2016-06-28 11:50:42 PM] Collie Bro: but just confirming, is MOTM still fucked?
156[2016-06-28 11:51:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: we can just make Rigtor do MotM
157[2016-06-28 11:51:11 PM] King Lear: There's a patch for it.
158[2016-06-28 11:51:29 PM] Collie Bro: oh and is there a way to easily take harlock on and off so I can test quicker
159[2016-06-28 11:51:29 PM] Denkocchi: Tomato and Tenko patched it up
160[2016-06-28 11:51:34 PM] Collie Bro: nice
161[2016-06-28 11:51:41 PM] Feedback: [June 28, 2016 11:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
162
163<<< we can just make Rigtor do MotMif cup results go against the teams he likes he stops watching, so he's not all that reliable (^^^^^^^^^^^^:
164[2016-06-28 11:51:41 PM] Denkocchi: I have backups of vanilla 1.03 and vanilla 1.04
165[2016-06-28 11:51:43 PM] Denkocchi: in rars
166[2016-06-28 11:51:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: kek Feedy
167[2016-06-28 11:52:42 PM] Collie Bro: Well I gtg, I'll do tests tomorrow and see if I like this new harlock better than the old one
168[2016-06-28 11:53:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: I still don't want Harlock
169[2016-06-28 11:53:36 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck what you want
170[2016-06-28 11:53:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: I still want 1.12
171[2016-06-28 11:53:46 PM] Feedback: ^
172[2016-06-28 11:53:47 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck what you want too
173[2016-06-28 11:54:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: P E S 1 3 B O Y S
174[2016-06-28 11:54:04 PM] King Lear: I truly added the Cup's finest didn't I.
175[2016-06-28 11:54:10 PM] Feedback: I mean you did
176[2016-06-28 11:54:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: at first
177[2016-06-28 11:54:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: plus smulel
178[2016-06-28 11:54:24 PM] Feedback: We're just letting the memes out before we get to work (^:
179[2016-06-28 11:54:29 PM] Denkocchi: yep don't worry I'm here
180[2016-06-28 11:55:03 PM] King Lear: Like, I am trusting you guys to at least try.
181[2016-06-28 11:55:27 PM] Denkocchi: I have been trying too much
182[2016-06-28 11:55:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: And I am trusting in Jesus Christ
183[2016-06-28 11:55:38 PM] HT☆Rock: I already put in the work
184[2016-06-28 11:55:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: we'll see who gets farther~~~
185[2016-06-28 11:55:54 PM] HT☆Rock: and am in an invitational to do more
186[2016-06-28 11:56:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: anyways I actually don't mind 1.04 that much
187[2016-06-28 11:56:10 PM] HT☆Rock: so if you need more data or whatver, I can provide it
188[2016-06-28 11:56:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: 4-3-3winslol is the future of football
189[2016-06-28 11:56:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: but three six fun is
190[2016-06-28 11:57:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: #bringback13
191[2016-06-28 11:57:08 PM] Denkocchi: 3-5-2 new meta
192[2016-06-29 12:02:46 AM] Smugleaf: Yo Johnny
193[2016-06-29 12:02:49 AM] Smugleaf: Activate it
194[2016-06-29 12:03:19 AM] Feedback: activate this
195[2016-06-29 12:03:31 AM | Edited 12:03:43 AM] Feedback: <Feedback> !roll 1d100 activate this
196<buttbot>  Feedback rolls 100
197<buttbot> Check 'em
198[2016-06-29 12:03:48 AM] JohnnyBravo: [June 29, 2016 12:02 AM] Smugleaf: 
199
200<<< Yo Johnny
201Activate it
202[2016-06-29 12:03:52 AM] *** JohnnyBravo removed Denkocchi from this conversation. ***
203[2016-06-29 12:04:30 AM] Gannon Murphy: so who is denkocchi again
204[2016-06-29 12:04:35 AM] Feedback: Norml
205[2016-06-29 12:04:36 AM] JohnnyBravo: norml
206[2016-06-29 12:04:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: oh
207[2016-06-29 12:04:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: shoulda known
208[2016-06-29 12:04:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: the purpose of this was to be a manager group
209[2016-06-29 12:04:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: people who test and shit
210[2016-06-29 12:05:11 AM] Smugleaf: People who know how PES works
211[2016-06-29 12:05:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: also he's a bit of a shitposting magnet
212[2016-06-29 12:05:26 AM] Smugleaf: Not people who get sacked and banned from a team for losing 6-1 and ragequitting
213[2016-06-29 12:05:32 AM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
214[2016-06-29 12:05:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: well
215[2016-06-29 12:05:52 AM] Gannon Murphy: JB you saw our height abuse match
216[2016-06-29 12:06:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: yes perfect let's do it
217[2016-06-29 12:06:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: it was ideal
218[2016-06-29 12:06:13 AM] Gannon Murphy: let's do that for all teams
219[2016-06-29 12:06:20 AM] Gannon Murphy: better yet
220[2016-06-29 12:06:22 AM] Feedback: Have everyone be giants?
221[2016-06-29 12:06:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: let's get rid of the height rules
222[2016-06-29 12:06:30 AM] Gannon Murphy: and not tell anyone
223[2016-06-29 12:06:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: >boris opens pes on day one
224>210cm /wg/ vs 210cm /mu/
225[2016-06-29 12:06:52 AM] JohnnyBravo: >faints
226[2016-06-29 12:06:57 AM] Gannon Murphy: kek
227[2016-06-29 12:07:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: that would be
228the best thing ever
229[2016-06-29 12:07:37 AM] Feedback: I would do everything in my power to bring back Snorlax from the dead to have him guest manage that one
230[2016-06-29 12:07:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: I would do... no wait Tom's dead
231[2016-06-29 12:08:00 AM] Feedback: Well
232[2016-06-29 12:08:05 AM] Feedback: with that attitude he's dead
233[2016-06-29 12:08:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: who killed Tom
234[2016-06-29 12:08:21 AM] Feedback: I don't know
235[2016-06-29 12:08:27 AM] King Lear: happy birthday motherfuckerHe's not that dead.
236[2016-06-29 12:08:29 AM] Gannon Murphy: I heard he died in Socchi
237[2016-06-29 12:08:38 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah he's not actually that dead
238[2016-06-29 12:09:14 AM] King Lear: It turns out our friend here is only mostly dead.
239[2016-06-29 12:11:18 AM] Feedback: My name is Inigo /mu/toya, you rigged my cup, prepare to be relegated.
240[2016-06-29 12:12:24 AM] JohnnyBravo: ok so the other two names floated for this were bgp and cemedy
241[2016-06-29 12:12:41 AM] Feedback: BGP we'd add if anyone had his fucking Skype
242[2016-06-29 12:12:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: does anyone have the latter's skype because apparently nobody has bgp and someone will have to pm him
243[2016-06-29 12:12:50 AM] Feedback: and I don't know if lear's gotten in touch with cemedy
244[2016-06-29 12:13:06 AM] JohnnyBravo: and if anyone has any other names for here let me or lear know
245[2016-06-29 12:13:38 AM] King Lear: Yeah I've sent a request to BGP on Skype and once he accepts I'll add him.
246[2016-06-29 12:13:46 AM] King Lear: I've already gotten the okay from him.
247[2016-06-29 12:13:55 AM] Feedback: oh
248[2016-06-29 12:14:10 AM] King Lear: And Cemedy likes to only be reachable by IRC and I haven't seen him on.
249[2016-06-29 12:14:42 AM] Feedback: alright then, I typically see him on IRC when he's on
250[2016-06-29 12:14:47 AM] Feedback: so if you're not around, I'll ask him
251[2016-06-29 12:15:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: do people actually r8 cemedy
252[2016-06-29 12:15:34 AM] Feedback: I do tbh
253[2016-06-29 12:15:38 AM] JohnnyBravo: sure
254[2016-06-29 12:15:53 AM] Feedback: he's won a (babby) cup and built some strong teams over the past year
255[2016-06-29 12:16:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: huh, he's just been "that guy who accidentally PES15's first cup" to me
256[2016-06-29 12:16:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: won spring
2579-pointed summer
258dissected /vr/ in winter and had a very strong team to test against
259[2016-06-29 12:16:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: hmmm
260[2016-06-29 12:16:40 AM] Gannon Murphy: didn't know that :^)
261[2016-06-29 12:17:25 AM] JohnnyBravo: I mean once I beat it I -beat- it
262[2016-06-29 12:17:38 AM] JohnnyBravo: but 3-5-2 vs 4-4-2 was problematic initially
263[2016-06-29 12:17:49 AM] Gannon Murphy: tell me about it
264[2016-06-29 12:57:37 AM] HT☆Rock: if actually being a good manager meant anything, carma, feedback and I wouldn't be here (^:
265[2016-06-29 12:57:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: >Feedback
266[2016-06-29 12:57:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: m8
267[2016-06-29 12:59:04 AM] Smugleaf: Duke has the least losses but the worst winrate here
268[2016-06-29 12:59:12 AM] Smugleaf: Is he the best or the worst manager?
269[2016-06-29 12:59:14 AM] Smugleaf: dun dun dun
270[2016-06-29 12:59:22 AM] Gannon Murphy: who has the most losses
271[2016-06-29 12:59:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: feedback has the most wins of any active manager, I think we did this in irc once
272[2016-06-29 12:59:36 AM] Smugleaf: Probably HT, or Lear
273[2016-06-29 12:59:42 AM] Smugleaf: HT's been here for a while
274[2016-06-29 12:59:46 AM] Smugleaf: Lear just sucked :^]
275[2016-06-29 1:00:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: :^)
276[2016-06-29 1:00:24 AM] Smugleaf: So uh
277[2016-06-29 1:00:25 AM] King Lear: 6 losses in Cup matches.
278[2016-06-29 1:00:27 AM] Smugleaf: PES16
279[2016-06-29 1:00:30 AM] Smugleaf: How do we fix it
280[2016-06-29 1:00:40 AM] King Lear: Switch to Fifa.
281[2016-06-29 1:00:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: getting rid of height rules
282[2016-06-29 1:01:00 AM] Smugleaf: I'm all for changing height rules
283[2016-06-29 1:01:12 AM] Smugleaf: But that won't solve the blatant issue we have
284[2016-06-29 1:01:18 AM] Smugleaf: Of 2manygoalz
285[2016-06-29 1:01:58 AM] *** Feedback added Background Pony ***
286[2016-06-29 1:02:05 AM] Feedback: alright, gang's all here I think
287[2016-06-29 1:02:15 AM] JohnnyBravo: neat
288[2016-06-29 1:02:21 AM] HT☆Rock: [June 29, 2016 12:57 AM] Gannon Murphy: 
289
290<<< >Feedback
291m8Sarg does all the work (^:
292[2016-06-29 1:02:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: bueno
293[2016-06-29 1:02:32 AM] Feedback: eh, not really
294[2016-06-29 1:02:34 AM] Background Pony: Good morning
295[2016-06-29 1:02:34 AM] King Lear: Oh swell someone did have him.
296[2016-06-29 1:02:40 AM] Smugleaf: Hullo
297[2016-06-29 1:02:48 AM] HT☆Rock: ponies reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
298[2016-06-29 1:02:50 AM | Edited 1:02:57 AM] King Lear: Goddamn it is morning in Europe.
299[2016-06-29 1:02:50 AM] HT☆Rock: etc
300[2016-06-29 1:02:58 AM] Smugleaf: It's 6AM where I am
301[2016-06-29 1:02:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: It's 10PM here
302[2016-06-29 1:03:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: midnight
303[2016-06-29 1:03:08 AM] King Lear: 1 AM.
304[2016-06-29 1:03:29 AM] HT☆Rock: [June 29, 2016 1:01 AM] Smugleaf: 
305
306<<< But that won't solve the blatant issue we have
307Of 2manygoalzto be perfectly honest, a lot of this is because most motherfuckers have no idea how to defend or even set up defensive sliders
308[2016-06-29 1:03:43 AM] HT☆Rock: especially in the VGL
309[2016-06-29 1:03:46 AM] Smugleaf: I dunno man
310[2016-06-29 1:03:58 AM] Smugleaf: Like, I've been testing out a fair bit on 1.04
311[2016-06-29 1:04:00 AM] JohnnyBravo: smulel
312[2016-06-29 1:04:11 AM] Smugleaf: And no matter the defensive sliders, or formation
313[2016-06-29 1:04:16 AM] JohnnyBravo: -you- have no idea how to set up defensive sliders either (^:
314[2016-06-29 1:04:18 AM] Gannon Murphy: I don't mind vanilla 1.04 too much tbh
315[2016-06-29 1:04:26 AM] Smugleaf: Playing counter vs counter has never resulted in a clean sheet on my machine
316[2016-06-29 1:04:32 AM] Smugleaf: Lowest I've had is 1-1
317[2016-06-29 1:04:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: I've had low scoring games
318[2016-06-29 1:04:49 AM] Smugleaf: And counter is a very popular slider to use
319[2016-06-29 1:04:57 AM] HT☆Rock: ALL
320[2016-06-29 1:04:58 AM] HT☆Rock: OUT
321[2016-06-29 1:05:00 AM] HT☆Rock: DEFENSE
322[2016-06-29 1:05:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: counter is overwhelmingly favored
323[2016-06-29 1:05:07 AM] Smugleaf: The only time I've had a clean sheet was when I was hosting the VGL
324[2016-06-29 1:05:16 AM] Background Pony: We played our cup on 1.04, and the only crazy scorelines we got were when two offensive teams were playing eachother with offensive tactics.
325[2016-06-29 1:05:17 AM] Smugleaf: And it was /ffg/ on slurp vs a shit /mhg/
326[2016-06-29 1:05:35 AM] Smugleaf: When I play two good teams (ie /gd/ vs teams of my choosing), never a clean sheet
327[2016-06-29 1:05:41 AM] Smugleaf: Always get clusterfucks
328[2016-06-29 1:05:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: stop doing many/many it fucks pes
329[2016-06-29 1:05:59 AM] Smugleaf: I'm currently on medium/medium
330[2016-06-29 1:05:59 AM] HT☆Rock: Unless it's possession lol
331[2016-06-29 1:05:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: ban many/many tbh
332[2016-06-29 1:06:05 AM] Smugleaf: But that's the thing
333[2016-06-29 1:06:06 AM] Background Pony: I get that when I play vs /gd/ as well. Kerning always scores, no matter what.
334[2016-06-29 1:06:14 AM] Smugleaf: You can't tell managers what to not play
335[2016-06-29 1:06:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: oh certainly
336[2016-06-29 1:06:23 AM] Smugleaf: PES16 is just pretty much damn broken
337[2016-06-29 1:06:31 AM] Smugleaf: Or at least under our current ruleset
338[2016-06-29 1:06:31 AM] HT☆Rock: You also can't tell managers to get fuckin' gud
339[2016-06-29 1:06:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know about broken
340[2016-06-29 1:06:45 AM] Smugleaf: And quite frankly, I haven't got a scooby how to fix it
341[2016-06-29 1:06:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: it's very heavily dependent on the teams
342[2016-06-29 1:06:52 AM] JohnnyBravo: moreso than previous versions
343[2016-06-29 1:06:53 AM] HT☆Rock: so in order to counteract that, a gold stat nerf seems the easiest fix
344[2016-06-29 1:07:05 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah well Johnny, that's the thing
345[2016-06-29 1:07:15 AM] HT☆Rock: and a buff to bronzes
346[2016-06-29 1:07:21 AM] Smugleaf: Even the best two teams can result in goalfests
347[2016-06-29 1:07:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: fuck nerfing golds
348[2016-06-29 1:07:24 AM | Edited 1:07:24 AM] Smugleaf: It's the counter slider
349[2016-06-29 1:07:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: there's more variability in scorelines depending on the setups
350[2016-06-29 1:07:28 AM] Gannon Murphy: that ruins the point
351[2016-06-29 1:07:30 AM] Smugleaf: It's too offensive?
352[2016-06-29 1:07:32 AM] Smugleaf: idk
353[2016-06-29 1:07:42 AM] Smugleaf: But counter just causes shit to break imo
354[2016-06-29 1:07:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: people run really bad flp though
355[2016-06-29 1:07:48 AM] JohnnyBravo: zero vertical compactness
356[2016-06-29 1:07:52 AM] Background Pony: The issue I have with nerfs is when you fix the game so offensive teams/tactics get normal scorelines, you screw over every other team. You basically force everyone to go /m/ or bust
357[2016-06-29 1:07:52 AM] HT☆Rock: carma eat a dick
358[2016-06-29 1:08:04 AM] HT☆Rock: Not when you buff silvers and bronzes
359[2016-06-29 1:08:15 AM] HT☆Rock: or hell, not when you keep silvers the same and buff bronzes
360[2016-06-29 1:08:26 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah I've never been in favour of nerfs
361[2016-06-29 1:08:38 AM] HT☆Rock: has anyone besides me and nomo and the horsefucker actually *run* tests wtih the stat nerfs?
362[2016-06-29 1:08:41 AM] Smugleaf: >AI is crap
363>let's lower them
364>that'll make it better
365>???
366[2016-06-29 1:08:47 AM] HT☆Rock: just a question
367[2016-06-29 1:08:55 AM] JohnnyBravo: well nerfs target other things than general AI
368[2016-06-29 1:08:58 AM] Gannon Murphy: what smuggles said
369[2016-06-29 1:08:59 AM] JohnnyBravo: I did nerf tests on 1.03
370[2016-06-29 1:09:07 AM] Smugleaf: I haven't
371[2016-06-29 1:09:17 AM] JohnnyBravo: I disliked it on 1.03
372[2016-06-29 1:09:17 AM] Smugleaf: I just test 77/88/99 on vanilla 1.04
373[2016-06-29 1:09:23 AM] Smugleaf: I was preparing for Summer
374[2016-06-29 1:09:31 AM] Background Pony: Stat compression is a very delicate thing. When we tried this in winter, it was really easy to go too far and create boring pinball games where no one ever got dispossessed/intercepted except in the enemy box area.
375[2016-06-29 1:09:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: the reasonable thing to do would be leave it as-is on 1.04
376[2016-06-29 1:09:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: can we agree that same ruleset 1.04 is the "safe" option here?
377[2016-06-29 1:10:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: if we want to be absolute madmen we can look at other things
378[2016-06-29 1:10:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: and that anything else is going to have to beat that fairly well
379[2016-06-29 1:10:15 AM] Background Pony: [June 29, 2016 1:09 AM] JohnnyBravo: 
380
381<<< can we agree that same ruleset 1.04 is the "safe" option here?Agreed.
382[2016-06-29 1:10:22 AM] Gannon Murphy: ^
383[2016-06-29 1:10:30 AM] Feedback: It's a solid enough base to start on
384[2016-06-29 1:13:26 AM] Background Pony: Apparently PES17 is a lot slower paced. So if we manage to move over to that game, we won't have to worry about toomanygoals anymore.
385[2016-06-29 1:13:39 AM] Background Pony: But it will have it's own problems, I'm sure
386[2016-06-29 1:13:43 AM] Gannon Murphy: ohgod I hope they don't have that DRM shit
387[2016-06-29 1:13:54 AM] Gannon Murphy: what'sitcalled
388[2016-06-29 1:14:04 AM] Background Pony: denuvo?
389[2016-06-29 1:14:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
390[2016-06-29 1:14:24 AM] Gannon Murphy: PES17 sounds promising tbh
391[2016-06-29 1:14:47 AM] Gannon Murphy: but we've still got two more on 16
392[2016-06-29 1:15:06 AM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 12:08 AM
393> I did nerf tests on 1.03
394Nigger this is 1.04
395[2016-06-29 1:15:42 AM] Background Pony: But as for PES16. Is "toomanygoals" actually a big problem for the viewerbase?
396[2016-06-29 1:15:50 AM] JohnnyBravo: I know ht
397[2016-06-29 1:15:57 AM] HT☆Rock: Look, we need to have some sort of actual testing protocol for this version
398[2016-06-29 1:15:59 AM] JohnnyBravo: That's why I qualified my statemwnt
399[2016-06-29 1:16:21 AM] HT☆Rock: Which means we need to decide what to test for this version.
400[2016-06-29 1:16:35 AM] HT☆Rock: Fuck what you think about 1.03
401[2016-06-29 1:16:56 AM] JohnnyBravo: Literally not the point
402[2016-06-29 1:17:03 AM] HT☆Rock: So the first order of business is: harlock or no harlock
403[2016-06-29 1:17:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'd prefer it if we didn't
404[2016-06-29 1:17:33 AM] HT☆Rock: It's influencing the discussion in the face of actual data, so it kinda is, JB
405[2016-06-29 1:17:34 AM] Feedback: [June 29, 2016 1:15 AM] Background Pony: 
406
407<<< But as for PES16. Is "toomanygoals" actually a big problem for the viewerbase?I don't think it would be for the average 4cc viewer, that having been said I feel matchdays have been somewhat longer just because there's a lot more goals.
408[2016-06-29 1:17:42 AM] Feedback: which might be a detriment to most of the viewers
409[2016-06-29 1:17:57 AM] Background Pony: That's true. There's a lot of replay and goalhorn.
410[2016-06-29 1:18:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: too much replay and goalhorn
411[2016-06-29 1:18:12 AM] HT☆Rock: I say we test vanilla, since the AGL is Harlock confirmed
412[2016-06-29 1:18:16 AM] HT☆Rock: Personally
413[2016-06-29 1:18:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: esp for a commentator like boris who feels obliged to be hype about every goal
414[2016-06-29 1:18:24 AM] JohnnyBravo: We were talking about what stat nerfs generally do
415[2016-06-29 1:18:47 AM] Background Pony: Are we talking about another test cup?
416[2016-06-29 1:19:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: If there was an agreed upon stat set to test in vanilla 1.04 I think that would be a good course of action
417[2016-06-29 1:20:13 AM] Background Pony: wasnt the moeshit cup tested on 1.04 + stat compression?
418[2016-06-29 1:20:32 AM] HT☆Rock: 90/85/80, which I said was shit before it happened
419[2016-06-29 1:20:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: moeshit was fucking 80/85/90
420[2016-06-29 1:20:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: golds should stay 99
421[2016-06-29 1:21:00 AM] HT☆Rock: But sillius is a cocksleeve for Myuer, so that did nothing
422[2016-06-29 1:21:05 AM] Feedback: It also ran 1.04+Harlock
423[2016-06-29 1:21:07 AM] HT☆Rock: Why, carma?
424[2016-06-29 1:21:13 AM] Background Pony: bad results are still results.
425[2016-06-29 1:21:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: there's no reason to make worse the only players who don't fuck everything up regularly
426[2016-06-29 1:21:25 AM] King Lear: HT reminder that Myuer is in this chat.
427[2016-06-29 1:21:37 AM] HT☆Rock: I don't give a damn
428[2016-06-29 1:21:40 AM] King Lear: Just making sure.
429[2016-06-29 1:21:46 AM] Feedback: he's presumably a big boy, he can handle the banter
430[2016-06-29 1:22:11 AM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 12:21 AM
431> there's no reason to make worse the only players who don't fuck everything up regularly
432Which is why silvers get a boost or stay the same, as well as bronzes getting a boost
433[2016-06-29 1:22:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: fine
434[2016-06-29 1:22:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: but don't touch golds
435[2016-06-29 1:22:28 AM] HT☆Rock: And a 95 player is still really good
436[2016-06-29 1:22:33 AM] HT☆Rock: Better than good
437[2016-06-29 1:22:52 AM] HT☆Rock: Do you actually have a legit reason for this?
438[2016-06-29 1:23:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: it would be a disservice to the fans
439[2016-06-29 1:23:36 AM] HT☆Rock: Like look: the problem is there are too many goals
440[2016-06-29 1:23:45 AM] HT☆Rock: There are several ways to solve this
441[2016-06-29 1:23:50 AM] Background Pony: bent had an argument for this a while ago, saying nerfs can never make AI better. It can only make AI worse.
442[2016-06-29 1:24:03 AM] Gannon Murphy: basically
443[2016-06-29 1:24:06 AM] Background Pony: so nerfing golds may fix somethings, but it will also make overall play look worse.
444[2016-06-29 1:24:09 AM] JohnnyBravo: Was it a "disservice" when you ran 94 overall Bateman then
445[2016-06-29 1:24:13 AM] HT☆Rock: Did bent have data for this
446[2016-06-29 1:24:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: no because PEs15 was a laugh
447[2016-06-29 1:24:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: and anybody could score
448[2016-06-29 1:24:39 AM | Edited 1:25:45 AM] HT☆Rock: For FUCK'S SAKE I ran a week plus of tests on this before this scheme was even hatched
449[2016-06-29 1:25:11 AM] HT☆Rock: Harlock, vanilla, nerfs, no nerfs, 90 golds 95 golds
450[2016-06-29 1:25:13 AM] Background Pony: Hmm, we may have had some tests on that in winter (nerfed golds), but I'm not sure. I've nothing on paper anyway.
451[2016-06-29 1:25:17 AM] HT☆Rock: You want it I got it
452[2016-06-29 1:25:22 AM] HT☆Rock: Very recently
453[2016-06-29 1:25:32 AM] HT☆Rock: Like post /vg/L recent
454[2016-06-29 1:26:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: I'm most interested in vanilla 95 golds out of all the nerf options
455[2016-06-29 1:27:08 AM] HT☆Rock: Okay cool
456[2016-06-29 1:27:19 AM] HT☆Rock: I can give you data and impressions on that
457[2016-06-29 1:27:21 AM] JohnnyBravo: Doesn't mean I want nerfs (leaning towards no) but that seems best at a glance
458[2016-06-29 1:27:32 AM] JohnnyBravo: I'll run some games on that tomorrow
459[2016-06-29 1:27:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: Give me your doc and I'll use the same teams
460[2016-06-29 1:28:28 AM] Background Pony: What I believe is the biggest problem causing "too many goals" is how easy throughball assists are.
461[2016-06-29 1:28:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: they're not easy, they're random
462[2016-06-29 1:28:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: they juts happen
463[2016-06-29 1:28:47 AM] Gannon Murphy: just
464[2016-06-29 1:29:03 AM] Background Pony: well jeah, that too, but PES16 defense just can't handle them
465[2016-06-29 1:29:59 AM | Edited 1:30:07 AM] Background Pony: goals just come out of nowhere because of that. Instead of good passing build up, a DMF/CMF will just boot the ball up over the defense to a goalpoacher, and it's almost guaranteed a goal.
466[2016-06-29 1:31:09 AM] Background Pony: I've also no idea how to change that. PES16 AI is just retarded when it comes to that.
467[2016-06-29 1:31:24 AM] Gannon Murphy: there are things you can do as a manager to mitigate that
468[2016-06-29 1:32:47 AM] Background Pony: mitigate it, but never fix it. Out of possession tactics don't apply when you have the ball. Your defenders will happily move up all the way to the mid line if you have the ball long enough.
469[2016-06-29 1:34:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: shouldn't they?
470[2016-06-29 1:35:23 AM] Background Pony: Yes, but with PES16's AI it's just a recipe for disaster.
471[2016-06-29 1:41:17 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pJTQH/35b6805369.txt
472
473This is the preliminary style test for 80/90/95 Vanilla.  I couldn't test more because /ag/L stuff
474[2016-06-29 1:42:05 AM] HT☆Rock: I ran a full 16 team setup for Moeshit rules
475[2016-06-29 1:48:32 AM] Background Pony: I haven't tested form 8 on keepers. Does it improve them?
476[2016-06-29 1:49:10 AM] HT☆Rock: It improves their arrow roll, but that's about it
477[2016-06-29 1:49:22 AM] HT☆Rock: The stat bump is more important I believe
478[2016-06-29 1:49:47 AM] Background Pony: Form on keepers was always a bit of a mystery stat. When combined stats were still a thing, keepers had a consistency stat, and only form affected it.
479[2016-06-29 1:49:59 AM] HT☆Rock: I don't know the guts like that
480[2016-06-29 1:50:07 AM] HT☆Rock: I just know what I can see, sadly
481[2016-06-29 1:50:46 AM] Background Pony: I wish PES had better documentation. But I guess these arcade sports games are just too normie and no one gives a fuck.
482[2016-06-29 1:50:57 AM] HT☆Rock: They used to until Jenkey died
483[2016-06-29 1:51:08 AM] HT☆Rock: PES2014 killed off a lot of the fanbase
484[2016-06-29 1:51:30 AM | Edited 1:51:35 AM] HT☆Rock: The rigged wiki is basically the place to go for player style info now
485[2016-06-29 1:51:32 AM] HT☆Rock: which is kek
486[2016-06-29 1:51:43 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah lel
487[2016-06-29 1:51:51 AM] HT☆Rock: we're third on google and everything
488[2016-06-29 1:51:59 AM] Background Pony: jeah, I noticed that too. You search for any kind of info on PES, implyingrigged is always at the top.
489[2016-06-29 1:52:08 AM] HT☆Rock: we are king autists
490[2016-06-29 1:52:20 AM] HT☆Rock: (and a lot of the documentation is video stuff now)
491[2016-06-29 1:53:41 AM] HT☆Rock: But honestly, what I'm thinking is this: we have data on 80/85/90 (Moeshit Cup).  We're going to have some data on 80/88/95 (/ag/L).  We have data on 77/88/99 (/vg/L)
492[2016-06-29 1:54:03 AM] HT☆Rock: So from there, we see that Moeshit is too slurpy and /vg/L is too goal-filled
493[2016-06-29 1:54:09 AM] Background Pony: /mlp/ league is also 77/88/99
494[2016-06-29 1:54:15 AM] HT☆Rock: Ah
495[2016-06-29 1:54:23 AM] Background Pony: on 1.04 vanilla
496[2016-06-29 1:54:30 AM] HT☆Rock: Is there a variety of tactics in the horsefucking league?
497[2016-06-29 1:54:37 AM] HT☆Rock: slider and formation wise?
498[2016-06-29 1:54:49 AM] Background Pony: yes, we intentionally took all different formations.
499[2016-06-29 1:55:29 AM] Background Pony: It's sort of designed as a way to pick the /mlp/ formation for summer. We also repeat the whole thing a dozen times, even if we only streamed it once.
500[2016-06-29 1:55:48 AM] Background Pony: but were obviously waiting until the rules are decided before we run the rest.
501[2016-06-29 1:56:33 AM] HT☆Rock: So the horsefucker league shows that sane games can be played on the classic settings...if the team designers are of similar minds
502[2016-06-29 1:56:47 AM] HT☆Rock: Where the /vg/L was a gigantic clusterfuck...due to people not knowing PES
503[2016-06-29 1:56:52 AM] HT☆Rock: or probably how to breathe
504[2016-06-29 1:57:09 AM] Background Pony: like I said, we still got some insane scorelines, but it was when offensive teams played offensive teams with offensive tactics
505[2016-06-29 1:57:27 AM] HT☆Rock: so the trick here would be to make something on vanilla rules with different thought processes going into them
506[2016-06-29 1:57:51 AM] Background Pony: fix the people, not the rules, heh
507[2016-06-29 1:57:53 AM] HT☆Rock: Which would mean a test cup involving the people in here, most likely
508[2016-06-29 1:58:40 AM] King Lear: Something though is that we didn't get this discrepancy between "good" and "bad" teams' results to the extent we're seeing with 16.
509[2016-06-29 1:58:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah because 16 doesn't hold your hand
510[2016-06-29 1:59:00 AM] HT☆Rock: ^
511[2016-06-29 1:59:10 AM] HT☆Rock: There's no defensive cover like 15's two banks of four
512[2016-06-29 1:59:15 AM] HT☆Rock: (fuck you lear (envy) )
513[2016-06-29 1:59:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: you couldn't go full retard without being twinky or SDA before 16
514[2016-06-29 1:59:28 AM] Background Pony: well there is, if you run a 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 formation
515[2016-06-29 1:59:51 AM | Edited 2:00:30 AM] HT☆Rock: True, but not every formation collapses into a 4-4-2/5-3-2 out of possession
516[2016-06-29 2:00:23 AM] King Lear: (fuck you lear (envy) )(get fucked)
517
518Yeah the flat lines are gone with 16.
519[2016-06-29 2:00:38 AM] Gannon Murphy: flat lines aren't gone
520[2016-06-29 2:00:50 AM] Gannon Murphy: they're just flat lines in your formation
521[2016-06-29 2:01:02 AM] HT☆Rock: yes, carma
522[2016-06-29 2:01:08 AM] HT☆Rock: please pay attention
523[2016-06-29 2:01:21 AM] Background Pony: I do agree that shit teams get exposed in PES16. We completely misjudged what kind of formations we'd be seeing in the meta, and as a result we really struggled to get out of our group in Winter.
524[2016-06-29 2:01:27 AM] HT☆Rock: every team doesn't immediately, regardless of your tactics or formation, collapse
525[2016-06-29 2:01:35 AM] HT☆Rock: like they did in non-fluid 15
526[2016-06-29 2:01:45 AM] HT☆Rock: You can still set them up to defend in two banks of four
527[2016-06-29 2:01:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: well yeah
528[2016-06-29 2:01:51 AM] HT☆Rock: That's just not the default
529[2016-06-29 2:02:22 AM] HT☆Rock: It is true that really fucking bad teams get exposed, regardless of ruleset
530[2016-06-29 2:02:44 AM] HT☆Rock: /h/ just got eaten alive in pretty much every format
531[2016-06-29 2:04:14 AM] HT☆Rock: also, /out/ tended to fold like a card table against stiff competition
532[2016-06-29 2:06:09 AM] Background Pony: I think /out/ was one of the more fun formations.
533[2016-06-29 2:06:28 AM] Background Pony: But I hate silver wingers so much.
534[2016-06-29 2:06:32 AM] HT☆Rock: I was running their default sliders and players on Preset 2
535[2016-06-29 2:06:58 AM] HT☆Rock: Jack decided he was fucking Noah on the bench with two of every kind of central midfielder
536[2016-06-29 2:07:05 AM] HT☆Rock: so I might have picked wrong
537[2016-06-29 2:07:52 AM] Background Pony: seemd to me like he just picked a classic 4-4-2, so probably a destroyer DMF and a box to box CMF
538[2016-06-29 2:09:16 AM] HT☆Rock: I'll have to check what he started with
539[2016-06-29 2:09:26 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pJV5d/b4cac6eee7.png
540[2016-06-29 2:09:30 AM] HT☆Rock: because that seems like what it should be but that doesn't mean it is
541[2016-06-29 2:11:12 AM] Gannon Murphy: BGP does tha spreadsheet have every Winter team?
542[2016-06-29 2:11:14 AM] King Lear: Odd that his players have outside footing.
543[2016-06-29 2:11:34 AM] Background Pony: no, only the top 8 and the formation they played on the final day.
544[2016-06-29 2:11:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: ah
545[2016-06-29 2:11:48 AM] Smugleaf: >LMF and RMF have the same footing
546[2016-06-29 2:11:50 AM] Smugleaf: Huh
547[2016-06-29 2:11:53 AM] Background Pony: for testing purposes.
548[2016-06-29 2:12:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: on my current build the LWF and RWF are both left footed
549[2016-06-29 2:12:13 AM] HT☆Rock: yeah, Knife Thread and Innawoods are the middle two on my end
550[2016-06-29 2:12:23 AM] Smugleaf: But why
551[2016-06-29 2:12:30 AM] HT☆Rock: One crosser, one finisher
552[2016-06-29 2:12:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: ^
553[2016-06-29 2:12:52 AM] Background Pony: crossing seems a lot more frequent in 1.04
554[2016-06-29 2:13:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's definitely less bad
555[2016-06-29 2:13:04 AM] Gannon Murphy: I think
556[2016-06-29 2:13:08 AM] Background Pony: but that might be confirmation bias
557[2016-06-29 2:13:13 AM] Gannon Murphy: at least there's less switching sides and losing the ball
558[2016-06-29 2:13:19 AM] HT☆Rock: lol yeah
559[2016-06-29 2:13:46 AM] Background Pony: the long crosses to the other flank are so infuriating
560[2016-06-29 2:13:57 AM] HT☆Rock: So I've got shit set for the /ag/L; is there anything in particular you'd like for me to test on a different save?
561[2016-06-29 2:13:57 AM] Background Pony: it almost always results in a loss of possession
562[2016-06-29 2:14:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: what gets me is when the wingers switch sides
563[2016-06-29 2:14:34 AM] Gannon Murphy: like nigga get back to your position you daft cunt
564[2016-06-29 2:14:52 AM] Background Pony: I haven't really seen that, but I generally dislike wingers anyway
565[2016-06-29 2:15:27 AM] King Lear: the long crosses to the other flank are so infuriatingGenerally this is only when the players have no passing options on their side, usually from decent pressure from what I've seen. Though long ball and high support range seem to make players favour it over risky passes. But this is just from casual observation.
566[2016-06-29 2:16:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: well obviously there's slider changes you can make to mitigate it, like most things
567[2016-06-29 2:17:16 AM] HT☆Rock: position switching is supposed to fuck with marking and allow two-footed players to both pass and score
568[2016-06-29 2:18:02 AM] King Lear: no, only the top 8 and the formation they played on the final day.Did you do that for Spring as well? Like I didn't even put that much organization into Spring /w/.
569[2016-06-29 2:18:02 AM] HT☆Rock: now whether it does that...
570[2016-06-29 2:18:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: it doesn't
571[2016-06-29 2:20:05 AM] Background Pony: I haven't done it for spring, no.
572[2016-06-29 2:20:26 AM] King Lear: Honestly people are more likely to run things more like Spring than Winter.
573[2016-06-29 2:20:41 AM] Background Pony: hmm, I'm not sure.
574[2016-06-29 2:20:42 AM] Smugleaf: This Summer is the first time I've really tested pre-cup
575[2016-06-29 2:20:52 AM] Background Pony: If they do, /fit/ is going to have a field day
576[2016-06-29 2:21:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: I can tell you right now that /fit/ will be really very good in Summer
577[2016-06-29 2:21:28 AM] HT☆Rock: everybody wants to be a /m/echa
578[2016-06-29 2:21:31 AM] Background Pony: I feel like super offensive formations fall apart when they hit defensive ones. They just hit a brick wall.
579[2016-06-29 2:21:35 AM] Gannon Murphy: nah /m/'s toast
580[2016-06-29 2:21:45 AM] HT☆Rock: or will default to 4-4-2 diamond
581[2016-06-29 2:22:21 AM] King Lear: Maybe it just turns into a cyclical meta waxing and waning between /m/ and /fit/ type formations.
582[2016-06-29 2:22:31 AM] Gannon Murphy: it won't be
583[2016-06-29 2:22:41 AM] Background Pony: we asked tony to make a formation for the /mlp/ cup, and he made an incredibly slurpy 5-4-1 formation that just grinded its way to the top on draws.
584[2016-06-29 2:23:19 AM] King Lear: A 5-4-1 diamond?
585[2016-06-29 2:23:23 AM] HT☆Rock: well the 4-3-3 and the 4-4-2 diamond are good ass formations
586[2016-06-29 2:23:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: the 4-3-3 is immensely modable
587[2016-06-29 2:24:34 AM] HT☆Rock: The narrow 4-4-2 is decently moddable too
588[2016-06-29 2:25:03 AM] Background Pony: 4-4-2 is the most balanced, I think. With subs you can turn it into pretty much anything.
589[2016-06-29 2:25:28 AM] Gannon Murphy: modularity in 4CC-rules PES is overrated
590[2016-06-29 2:25:57 AM] Gannon Murphy: >he says as he considers seriously not having CB subs
591[2016-06-29 2:26:12 AM] HT☆Rock: quiet you
592[2016-06-29 2:28:01 AM] King Lear: modularity in 4CC-rules PES is overratedI feel the same. My philosophy in general is that it's better to force your opponent to break your gameplan than to try and disrupt theirs. Since you can then focus on making something strong while they have to try and do much more. And if you're wrong at trying to counter it's much worse.
593[2016-06-29 2:28:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
594[2016-06-29 2:28:32 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's a meta-mindgame that doesn't really exist outside the game theory of it
595[2016-06-29 2:29:00 AM | Edited 2:29:23 AM] HT☆Rock: but if your side isn't strong or simple to figure out, you're fucked
596[2016-06-29 2:29:54 AM] HT☆Rock: that's basically half the reason /fit/ murdered its way through Winter KOs
597[2016-06-29 2:29:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: then git gud
598[2016-06-29 2:30:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah because there were two good teams in Winter
599[2016-06-29 2:30:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: ./fit/ and /u/
600[2016-06-29 2:30:49 AM] Background Pony: I would argue that /gd/ should've made it a lot further
601[2016-06-29 2:31:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: ./gd/;s a buncha fuckin bullshit man
602[2016-06-29 2:31:05 AM] Gannon Murphy: fuck them
603[2016-06-29 2:31:07 AM] King Lear: I think the semis as about as close as you can get.
604[2016-06-29 2:31:10 AM] Smugleaf: hon hon
605[2016-06-29 2:31:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: and fuck their stupid fucking meme magic
606[2016-06-29 2:32:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: //rant
607[2016-06-29 2:34:51 AM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 1:30 AM
608> yeah because there were two good teams in Winter
609
610HT☆Rock - Today 1:26 AM
611> quiet you
612[2016-06-29 4:48:00 AM] Myuer: [June 29, 2016 1:21 AM] HT☆Rock: 
613
614<<< But sillius is a cocksleeve for Myuer, so that did nothingnice meme
615[2016-06-29 4:49:36 AM] Myuer: Well, I noticed now the post on the general, I read now all the 500+ messages, so I'd give what I think in general.
616[2016-06-29 5:08:53 AM] Myuer: I'd be totally up for the 95 golds, actually. When I saw the moeshit cup and partecipated into that, I only liked the buff that the nomedals had actually. It seemed that nomedals were more able to stop more the golds thanks to this compression stats. The problem with our "stats ruleset" are the 99 players, which are totally godlike. (Which if you ask me, completely something that has sense, after all we are abusing a player with max stats aganist players with 77 stats in it.) 
617
618Also about Harlock. For those who are wondering, it does indeed change stuff in the game. I looked into the code, I'd say the most noticeable stuff that I saw are those: 
6191) Makes reaction times go like crazy. 
6202) Changes Injury valuables with meaning that injuries could happen more, but at the same time he removed part of the original code (I still don't get this.)
6213) GK animations are faster.
622
623About the AGLeague. I didn't agree about form 8, because it would mean that most of the players on the pitch would be always with good conditions, but at the same time as I said. I'd be totally up to see what happens with 95 golds. But I heard already some reports, well remind that those are first handed from me. Till the 5th july I have university exams, but after that I can go full testing mode for you if you want. As I was saying. The reports for now for the 95 golds are "With a sensible defense they can be stopped, but the defence usually swarm and takes it away.", kinda nothing new from what we knew. But those are reports with agleague settings so with harlock. I'd like to see 95 golds in vanilla 1.04.
624
625About the same ruleset, I don't know. Would be the safest bet, but I think you'd make people angry if we keep the same ruleset again.
626[2016-06-29 5:09:01 AM] Myuer: sorry for the wall of text
627[2016-06-29 5:10:35 AM] Myuer: Also, I'd like to remind that in some roles in PES16, nomedal players with 77 stats perform well. The midfield ones the most.
628[2016-06-29 6:08:00 AM] Myuer: Oh yeah, about PES17. A lot of people compared it to PES14.
629[2016-06-29 6:16:03 AM] Myuer: ah yeah, I forgot another thing about harlock
630[2016-06-29 6:16:31 AM] Myuer: pass completation is decreased, now matches will finish with most likely between 75-80% pass completation
631[2016-06-29 8:35:08 AM] JohnnyBravo: more pass completion is good because you force teams to work it in rather than ebin long counters
632[2016-06-29 8:36:40 AM] JohnnyBravo: I've always tried to pick styles that go against what most play. If you're playing the same thing as everyone else the margins of your team being better disappear quickly.
633[2016-06-29 8:40:52 AM] Myuer: Well in defence of that, there is still the possibility that the tacts/sliders weren't good enough, but I noticed that usually most of the matches ended with a max of 80-85% pass completation
634[2016-06-29 8:52:28 AM] Myuer: Also another thing, 2 positions registered were never ever considered?
635[2016-06-29 3:31:42 PM] HT☆Rock: It's been something on the fringes for two years and never implemented
636[2016-06-29 3:35:25 PM] HT☆Rock: Ebin long balls are also a well established tactic against possession and midfield heavy teams
637[2016-06-29 3:35:43 PM] HT☆Rock: The problem is when the fuckers never get stopped
638[2016-06-29 11:10:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: HT I'm setting up some teams for 80/90/95, should I do form 8 keepers you think
639[2016-06-29 11:11:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: may as well since that's the ruleset you used
640[2016-06-29 11:11:52 PM] Duke Silver: imo (which means nothing) I think Form 8 keepers is actually a change that matters
641[2016-06-29 11:12:05 PM] Duke Silver: That's a test cup where the ONLY difference was Form 8 keepers
642[2016-06-29 11:12:18 PM] HT☆Rock: Within one Standard Deviation, fam
643[2016-06-29 11:12:20 PM] Duke Silver: And all-green conditions - as I understand, Form also affects condition
644[2016-06-29 11:12:26 PM] HT☆Rock: that's not a meaningful difference
645[2016-06-29 11:12:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah that's statistically insignificant
646[2016-06-29 11:12:43 PM | Edited 11:12:46 PM] HT☆Rock: sounds good, JB
647[2016-06-29 11:13:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: we've always treated form like a purely condition influencing stat duke
648[2016-06-29 11:13:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: I understand there may be other mechanics but that's the primary thing looked at with it
649[2016-06-29 11:14:19 PM] Duke Silver: Sure. I'm just here to give you the data that I have.
650[2016-06-29 11:21:46 PM] Duke Silver: So, what are our goals here? What do you guys feel is important from what we end up with? A certain number of Goals per game, shots per game, On Target shots per goal?
651[2016-06-29 11:22:10 PM] Duke Silver: I mean there are like 15 different statistics that are going to be relevant to how 'exciting' a game is
652[2016-06-29 11:24:05 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /fit/ and /m/ - cup winners, one defensive one offensive
653 /trv/ - a very offensive team, promoted
654 /o/ - possession based team, promoted
655 /b/ - relegated 4-4-2
656 /po/ - 1 striker, aborted
657[2016-06-29 11:24:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: thoughts?
658[2016-06-29 11:25:06 PM] Duke Silver: For a variety of teams? It seems fair. I've been doing Top 8 Winter / Top 8 Spring. Are you looking for a certain number of games?
659[2016-06-29 11:25:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'd rather not just use top teams for this
660[2016-06-29 11:25:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: maybe /a/ for a shit 4-4-2 instead of /b/'s 4 cb's
661[2016-06-29 11:26:16 PM] Gannon Murphy: maybe use group 3rd place Spring teams and Pot 2 summer teams
662[2016-06-29 11:26:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: so you've got "almost good"
663[2016-06-29 11:26:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: or like top four from each of those groups, then top four in Spring and Winter
664[2016-06-29 11:36:53 PM] Duke Silver: So, how important is it that we're testing with the same teams and the same sample size? Because if it is at all, >we should probably get a consensus on that pretty quickly.
665[2016-06-29 11:37:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: I was figuring I should do different teams than HT to see a greater variety
666[2016-06-29 11:37:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: testing for consistency is less useful than that imo
667[2016-06-29 11:41:51 PM] Myuer: [June 29, 2016 11:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
668
669<<<  /fit/ and /m/ - cup winners, one defensive one offensive
670 /trv/ - a very offensive team, promoted
671 /o/ - possession based team, promoted
672 /b/ - relegated 4-4-2
673 /po/ - 1 striker, aborted
674thoughts?seems good to me
675[2016-06-29 11:42:11 PM] Myuer: there is a fluid formation to put there too?
676[2016-06-29 11:42:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: revised
677winter knockouts: /fit/, /tv/, /s/
678spring knockouts: /trv/, /wg/, /lit/
679neither: /po/, /b/
680[2016-06-29 11:42:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: more variety
681[2016-06-29 11:42:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: that sounds good
682[2016-06-29 11:42:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhhh I can add like /mu/ but they're the mother of all outliers
683[2016-06-29 11:42:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: >/mu/
684[2016-06-29 11:42:53 PM] Gannon Murphy: IT
685[2016-06-29 11:42:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: JUST
686[2016-06-29 11:42:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: WORLS
687[2016-06-29 11:42:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: WORKS
688[2016-06-29 11:43:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: fuck
689[2016-06-29 11:43:29 PM] Myuer: we know carma, but I thought that adding a fluid in a test cup would be good, no team in fetus and babbies ran fluid right?
690[2016-06-29 11:43:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: don't think so
691[2016-06-29 11:43:57 PM] Myuer: Ah yeah /v/, but it is like taking /u/ with different sliders
692[2016-06-29 11:44:10 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /vr/ but it's not in the default
693[2016-06-29 11:44:26 PM] King Lear: There were other babby teams that used it at some point though, I seem to recall seeing it a bit.
694[2016-06-29 11:44:29 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /jp/
695[2016-06-29 11:44:43 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /a/ and /c/ did what /u/ did but sucked at it
696[2016-06-29 11:44:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: (the whole 4-1-3-2/4-3-1-2 shift)
697[2016-06-29 11:45:04 PM] Myuer: Never checked thier fluid, inb4 they copied the one on the wiki
698[2016-06-29 11:46:22 PM] Myuer: well, it's not a must adding a fluid in any case, I was only suggesting
699[2016-06-29 11:46:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't think it's a big enough of a difference to matter in this context
700[2016-06-29 11:47:07 PM] Myuer: yup
701[2016-06-29 11:47:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
702[2016-06-29 11:52:56 PM] Myuer: Gannon Murphy = Carma'
703[2016-06-29 11:52:57 PM] Myuer: ?*
704[2016-06-29 11:54:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
705[2016-06-29 11:56:24 PM] King Lear: Carma has the raddest name, like, ever.
706[2016-06-29 11:56:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: for a potato nigger
707[2016-06-30 5:18:20 AM | Edited 5:19:09 AM] Background Pony: What's a specific rulechange people want to see tested? I'll run it on the FT2 /mlp/ cup thing, so we can compare stats between that and vanilla 1.04
708[2016-06-30 9:55:24 AM] JohnnyBravo: do you want to try 80/90/95 too bgp? that would make 19 total teams tested on it if you have those 6.
709[2016-06-30 9:55:57 AM] Background Pony: sure
710[2016-06-30 9:56:33 AM] Background Pony: together with patch 1.04 and no other patches/buffs, right?
711[2016-06-30 9:57:51 AM] JohnnyBravo: Yeah vanilla 1.04
712[2016-06-30 9:58:13 AM] JohnnyBravo: Oh and form 8 keepers too because ht did that
713[2016-06-30 10:16:45 AM] Myuer: results so far JB?
714[2016-06-30 10:17:05 AM] JohnnyBravo: I made a lot of the teams last night
715[2016-06-30 10:17:15 AM] JohnnyBravo: I have work today and then I'll get started
716[2016-06-30 10:17:18 AM] Myuer: I'll do something next week, till the 5th of july I'm pretty busy
717[2016-06-30 10:17:30 AM] Myuer: (damn university)
718[2016-06-30 10:17:38 AM] Background Pony: expect stats from me in a few days. I want to make sure I can watch the games as well, so I can see what the changes do to gameplay.
719[2016-06-30 10:17:53 AM] Background Pony: Not just run the games in the background and compile stats.
720[2016-06-30 10:18:02 AM] JohnnyBravo: mhm, same
721[2016-06-30 10:18:32 AM] Myuer: kinda normal to do I'd say
722[2016-06-30 10:19:16 AM] Myuer: I can't do much for now because I better study for those 2 exams.
723[2016-06-30 10:19:23 AM] Background Pony: during normal testing you repeat the same game over and over, so I just watch two or three, and then run the rest in the background while I do other things
724[2016-06-30 11:27:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pMbDz/583d38aec6.jpg
725[2016-06-30 11:27:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: good job, good effort
726[2016-06-30 11:38:51 PM] HT☆Rock: (mm)
727[2016-06-30 11:39:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pMbKw/b460470999.jpg this was a fucking awful game to watch
728[2016-06-30 11:39:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: (shrug)
729[2016-06-30 11:39:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: fuck
730[2016-06-30 11:39:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: what's that emote
731[2016-06-30 11:40:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm not skype literate enough sometimes D:
732[2016-06-30 11:41:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's this one
733[2016-06-30 11:41:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: (klopp)
734[2016-06-30 11:41:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
735[2016-06-30 11:44:36 PM] Collie Bro: >flopp
736[2016-07-01 1:08:52 AM | Removed 1:09:20 AM] Background Pony: This message has been removed.
737[2016-07-01 1:09:12 AM | Edited 1:09:49 AM] Background Pony: wrong chat, was supposed to go in Overwatch
738[2016-07-01 1:10:03 AM] Collie Bro: >BGP
739[2016-07-01 1:10:11 AM] HT☆Rock: "overwatch"
740[2016-07-01 1:10:31 AM] Collie Bro: so now we have undermeme and overmeme, what's next?
741[2016-07-01 1:11:01 AM] Background Pony: inbetweenwatch?
742[2016-07-01 1:11:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: inbetwmeme
743[2016-07-01 1:52:14 AM] King Lear: Nomo wants to know what height abuse should be for /vg/L.
744[2016-07-01 1:52:53 AM] Collie Bro: Let's just keep it as is
745[2016-07-01 1:53:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: I would suggest just moving the height brackets up 5cm
746[2016-07-01 1:53:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: just to try something new
747[2016-07-01 1:53:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: so 170-210cm instead of 165-205
748[2016-07-01 1:53:30 AM] Collie Bro: I'm fine with that too actually
749[2016-07-01 1:54:05 AM] Smugleaf: [July 1, 2016 1:53 AM] Gannon Murphy: 
750
751<<< so 170-210cm instead of 165-205175 is better
752[2016-07-01 1:54:08 AM] Background Pony: does that actually make a difference? It'll be the same, except players will all be slightly larger
753[2016-07-01 1:54:27 AM] Smugleaf: I don't think it's a gameplay thing, but more a flexibility thing
754[2016-07-01 1:54:37 AM] Smugleaf: I recall Tony was trying to get it changed to this
755[2016-07-01 1:54:50 AM] Gannon Murphy: I have a few sneaking suspicions
756[2016-07-01 1:54:56 AM] Smugleaf: Because a lot of managers will refuse to play their manlets and those players won't get gametime
757[2016-07-01 1:55:01 AM] Smugleaf: Which is a bit shit
758[2016-07-01 1:55:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
759[2016-07-01 1:55:19 AM] Smugleaf: I think people were thinking about going through with it, then lol /out/ happened
760[2016-07-01 1:55:26 AM] Smugleaf: 3rd place with a 165 manlet gold
761[2016-07-01 1:55:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: again, I have some suspicions
762[2016-07-01 1:56:16 AM] Background Pony: that was a fox in the box, though. They dont have to be big, they just have to be in the right place at the right time.
763[2016-07-01 1:56:29 AM] Smugleaf: 175-179: 6 Players
764180-184: 7 Players
765185-189: 6 Players
766[2016-07-01 1:56:37 AM] Smugleaf: I think it's nice and well rounded anyway
767[2016-07-01 1:56:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I wouldn't mind that
768[2016-07-01 1:56:50 AM] Background Pony: jeah, I remember tony mentioning something like that
769[2016-07-01 1:57:00 AM] King Lear: Let's kill the manletiest manlet.
770[2016-07-01 1:57:23 AM] Background Pony: what if people want manlets because of "reasons"?
771[2016-07-01 1:57:32 AM] Smugleaf: [July 1, 2016 1:57 AM] King Lear: 
772
773<<< Let's kill the manletiest manlet.>1 player
774[2016-07-01 1:57:36 AM] Smugleaf: That's a bit pointless
775[2016-07-01 1:57:44 AM] Gannon Murphy: let's just bump the bottom slot up to 175cm, and remove the bottom limit on that bracket
776[2016-07-01 1:57:45 AM] Smugleaf: I'd move up the bottom three
777[2016-07-01 1:58:23 AM] Smugleaf: and remove the bottom limit on that bracket?
778[2016-07-01 1:58:49 AM] Background Pony: [July 1, 2016 1:56 AM] Smugleaf: 
779
780<<< 175-179: 6 Players
781180-184: 7 Players
782185-189: 6 Playerswhat about the remaining four? Do they get rolled into the 185-189 bracket if a team doesnt height abuse (same as now)?
783[2016-07-01 1:58:59 AM] Smugleaf: Oh wait
784[2016-07-01 1:59:12 AM] Smugleaf: It's 185-189: 10 Players
785[2016-07-01 1:59:13 AM] Smugleaf: derp
786[2016-07-01 1:59:20 AM] Smugleaf: I've got height abuse on the mind
787[2016-07-01 1:59:50 AM] Smugleaf: It's 6 if you run height abuse, with 190-194: 2, 195-199: 1, 200-205: 1
788[2016-07-01 2:00:16 AM] Background Pony: removing the bottom limit  on manlets with a default of 175 seems fine to me, but it shouldnt give extra height that you can spend on other players, for obvious reasons
789[2016-07-01 2:00:30 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah
790[2016-07-01 2:01:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: like this yeah? http://puu.sh/pMjdJ/7658109eb1.png
791[2016-07-01 2:01:44 AM] Background Pony: you will probably see a lot less perma bench players
792[2016-07-01 2:02:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: or do you want to eliminate both bottom brackets?
793[2016-07-01 2:03:49 AM] Gannon Murphy: http://puu.sh/pMjjR/075b76c63f.png how about this
794[2016-07-01 2:04:04 AM] Smugleaf: I was just about to say
795[2016-07-01 2:04:08 AM] Smugleaf: That one is better
796[2016-07-01 2:05:00 AM] Smugleaf: I'd say, for the overall height limit, the bottom bracket has no rules and does not affect the others
797[2016-07-01 2:05:00 AM] Background Pony: yes, but I would stress that the default height for that bracket is 175, and reducing height below it will not give you bonus height to spend on other players
798[2016-07-01 2:05:16 AM] Smugleaf: So you can have all players on 155 or 179 if you please
799[2016-07-01 2:05:31 AM] Smugleaf: And like BGP says, it doesn't give you more or less bonus height for the other brackets
800[2016-07-01 2:05:34 AM] Gannon Murphy: it shouldn't matter that much
801[2016-07-01 2:05:36 AM] Smugleaf: Which stay the same as current
802[2016-07-01 2:05:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: because of the limits on the other two brackets
803[2016-07-01 2:05:41 AM] Smugleaf: It would matter tbh
804[2016-07-01 2:05:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: well
805[2016-07-01 2:06:10 AM] Smugleaf: So we'd need to make a ruling like I just said, otherwise teams could save up to 20 height bonus on each manlet player
806[2016-07-01 2:06:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: it should be allotted as if they're default 170cm
807[2016-07-01 2:06:17 AM] Smugleaf: And make our situation even worse
808[2016-07-01 2:06:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: we have a cumulative height rule for that reason
809[2016-07-01 2:06:27 AM] Background Pony: you could have a couple perma benchers at 155 and use their missing height to make every other player as tall as possible
810[2016-07-01 2:06:36 AM] Smugleaf: ^
811[2016-07-01 2:06:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: well if that's your will then so be it
812[2016-07-01 2:06:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's not the most appealing option
813[2016-07-01 2:06:52 AM] Smugleaf: I would still stick to what I said
814[2016-07-01 2:07:18 AM] Smugleaf: Two different ruling for the 155-179 and 180-205 bracket split
815[2016-07-01 2:07:30 AM] Smugleaf: 180-205 brackets stick to the current rules
816[2016-07-01 2:07:41 AM] Smugleaf: 155-179 are free to do whatever
817[2016-07-01 2:08:48 AM | Edited 2:09:03 AM] Background Pony: basically you have to avoid changing things in a way that might be cheeseable, or you risk turning the cup into "whichever teams figures out how to cheese it first, wins"
818[2016-07-01 2:09:05 AM] HT☆Rock: like every system change cup
819[2016-07-01 2:09:23 AM] Background Pony: I assume that's why the rules haven't changed in such a long time
820[2016-07-01 2:09:51 AM] HT☆Rock: But on height abuse: you could just get rid of the free floating extra CM if you're shifting levels up or you could have the height shifts only activate within each bracket
821[2016-07-01 2:10:06 AM] HT☆Rock: So you can't make supermanlets to make other dudes gigantic
822[2016-07-01 2:10:43 AM] Background Pony: just getting rid of the 165 and 170 bracket, rolling the three players into 175 seems like a good idea, though, and it should result in more meme diversity on the pitch
823[2016-07-01 2:10:55 AM] HT☆Rock: I'm down with that
824[2016-07-01 2:11:01 AM] HT☆Rock: just go five 175s
825[2016-07-01 2:11:03 AM] Smugleaf: tbh I just prefer having a simple 175-179 bracket rather than the 155
826[2016-07-01 2:11:09 AM] HT☆Rock: or is it six?
827[2016-07-01 2:11:09 AM] Background Pony: with an 'aesthetic pardon' for teams who want ultra manlets, for whatever reason
828[2016-07-01 2:11:11 AM] Smugleaf: 6
829[2016-07-01 2:11:54 AM] HT☆Rock: the aesthetic pardon can be baked in with the in-bracket height allocation
830[2016-07-01 2:12:15 AM] HT☆Rock: so for instance, you have 6 179 and under players
831[2016-07-01 2:12:23 AM] HT☆Rock: They start at 175
832[2016-07-01 2:12:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: why can't we just have the total height limit again
833[2016-07-01 2:12:43 AM] HT☆Rock: Shut up I'm explaining things
834[2016-07-01 2:13:15 AM] HT☆Rock: And because the total height limit is pretty much just there because reasons
835[2016-07-01 2:13:21 AM] HT☆Rock: with the brackets and all
836[2016-07-01 2:14:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean in order to have 10 189cm players, you get 25cm to play with to begin with, so that's 6 of them plus 1cm on a seventh, so you have three manlets get shortened by 3, 4, and 4 cm respectively to 166 and 167cm
837[2016-07-01 2:14:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: or you can average them to 175, where they all stay about 170
838[2016-07-01 2:14:46 AM] Background Pony: total height would change to 4180
839[2016-07-01 2:15:07 AM] Gannon Murphy: here's my tentative suggestion http://puu.sh/pMjNd/650850aaea.png
840[2016-07-01 2:15:48 AM | Edited 2:16:01 AM] Background Pony: (6 x 175 + 7 x 180 + 10 x 185) + 20 bonus cm = 4180
841[2016-07-01 2:15:56 AM] Gannon Murphy: I udes 170
842[2016-07-01 2:15:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: used*
843[2016-07-01 2:17:57 AM] HT☆Rock: Yeah, outside of the 175 bracket, there's not really enough flow space to do my idea
844[2016-07-01 2:18:00 AM] HT☆Rock: thinking about it
845[2016-07-01 2:18:11 AM] HT☆Rock: Especially on green heights
846[2016-07-01 2:19:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: unless we want to add a cap back in at the bottom
847[2016-07-01 2:19:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean min/maxing is something people have done since the beginning of time
848[2016-07-01 2:20:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: you'd be hard pressed to get rid of it without saying "your golds will be 205cm, and 200cm, your silvers will be 195cm
849[2016-07-01 2:20:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: etc
850[2016-07-01 2:21:37 AM] HT☆Rock: honestly, the nerf itself does a good job at preventing people from doing that
851[2016-07-01 2:21:43 AM] HT☆Rock: It's a mental deterrent
852[2016-07-01 2:21:56 AM] HT☆Rock: at least in the current system
853[2016-07-01 2:22:33 AM] Gannon Murphy: personally I don't see any reason why a manager would throw away a player for a few extra centimeters of height somewhere else
854[2016-07-01 2:22:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: and I'm a "starters or bust" kinda manager
855[2016-07-01 2:24:04 AM] King Lear: I believe it was Winter 15 /ck/ that ran height abuse for one player than kept the other three permanently on the bench. They made top 4.
856[2016-07-01 2:24:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah well there's options
857[2016-07-01 2:26:00 AM] King Lear: Options are a good thing.
858[2016-07-01 2:26:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: precisely
859[2016-07-01 2:27:20 AM] Smugleaf: You know it's funny we're talking about this all
860[2016-07-01 2:27:27 AM] Smugleaf: Because I just exported my /4ccg/ export
861[2016-07-01 2:27:36 AM] Smugleaf: And I have a 165 player I plan on never using
862[2016-07-01 2:27:44 AM] Smugleaf: And I made him 165 so I don't have to use him
863[2016-07-01 2:27:52 AM] Gannon Murphy: always
864[2016-07-01 2:27:53 AM] Smugleaf: Because >MayDave
865[2016-07-01 2:29:12 AM] Background Pony: what are the current stat penalties on height abuse players?
866[2016-07-01 2:29:36 AM] Smugleaf: -3, -4, -5
867[2016-07-01 2:31:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'd be down to bump that up to -2, -3. -4
868[2016-07-01 2:31:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: just because there's only ever a few teams in a cup using it
869[2016-07-01 2:31:20 AM] Gannon Murphy: so incentivizing it a little more would be nice
870[2016-07-01 2:31:30 AM] Smugleaf: I'd prefer that
871[2016-07-01 2:31:38 AM] Smugleaf: But mostly because it calms my autism :^]
872[2016-07-01 2:31:52 AM] Smugleaf: Seriously, it always bugged me that it was 74, 84, 94
873[2016-07-01 2:31:58 AM] Smugleaf: Instead of 75, 85, 95
874[2016-07-01 2:32:04 AM] Smugleaf: 5 is a more even number
875[2016-07-01 2:32:05 AM] Smugleaf: reeeee
876[2016-07-01 2:32:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: ^
877[2016-07-01 2:32:16 AM] King Lear: The thing is are they running it because it's not worth it or because nobody's found what breaks it?
878[2016-07-01 2:32:23 AM] HT☆Rock: Second
879[2016-07-01 2:32:25 AM] Smugleaf: Anyway, going below the 5 did deter me too
880[2016-07-01 2:32:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: what breaks it?
881[2016-07-01 2:32:31 AM] Smugleaf: Because it seemed like a lot
882[2016-07-01 2:32:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: people don't use it because Boris is the only person who believes in height abuse still
883[2016-07-01 2:32:47 AM] King Lear: Like some people will never run it because there's a huge mental block against lowering your stats.
884[2016-07-01 2:32:53 AM] HT☆Rock: It's called "very large gold striker, fuck the rest"
885[2016-07-01 2:33:00 AM] HT☆Rock: (fuck you erf snek)
886[2016-07-01 2:33:12 AM] HT☆Rock: But yes, the main thing is a mental deterrent
887[2016-07-01 2:33:26 AM] HT☆Rock: dropping five is more scary than actually running a gold that is down five
888[2016-07-01 2:34:01 AM] King Lear: If you keep tipping the scales towards height abuse then at some point the people who do run it will crack a cup in half.
889[2016-07-01 2:34:09 AM] Smugleaf: VERY large striker scoring at incredible hihg height
890[2016-07-01 2:37:16 AM] King Lear: Heavenly_Pond - Today at 2:32 AM
891Height abuse is a crutch 
892/an/ will never succumb to it 
893
894Point about it being a mental block right here.
895[2016-07-01 2:37:41 AM | Edited 2:38:21 AM] Smugleaf: Didn't /tf2g/ come last in the VGL
896[2016-07-01 2:38:10 AM] King Lear: There's a reason we got the other /an/ manager in here.
897[2016-07-01 2:38:25 AM] Smugleaf: :^]
898[2016-07-01 2:38:45 AM] Background Pony: hang on, autism incoming
899[2016-07-01 2:38:52 AM] Background Pony: what do you guys think about this:
900[2016-07-01 2:38:53 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pMkKx/86f0fc3d3e.png
901[2016-07-01 2:39:25 AM] Gannon Murphy: w e w
902[2016-07-01 2:39:26 AM] Background Pony: the "- to all stats" thing is placeholder
903[2016-07-01 2:39:52 AM] Smugleaf: I like the idea but >-6 is enough to deter anyone
904[2016-07-01 2:40:00 AM] Smugleaf: But yeah, that's pretty cool
905[2016-07-01 2:40:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
906[2016-07-01 2:40:12 AM] Gannon Murphy: -5 deters most people
907[2016-07-01 2:40:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: -6 would deter everyone
908[2016-07-01 2:40:54 AM] Smugleaf: I've always wanted the top bracket to be more flexible
909[2016-07-01 2:40:58 AM] Smugleaf: I miss the old tall dudes
910[2016-07-01 2:41:13 AM] Smugleaf: But would never use it because I'd have to sacrifice 4 players to nerfs
911[2016-07-01 2:41:49 AM] Smugleaf: But I guess that could be 'abuseble' if I was allowed to make only one player 205 and the rest sub 189
912[2016-07-01 2:44:48 AM] Background Pony: I personally haven't really messed with height abuse, but I know some teams like their tall keepers. Thing is, if you want to reduce manlet perma benchers, you should also look at the height abuse rules, because AFAIK all teams that used it turned their 190cm players into benchwarmers
913[2016-07-01 2:45:12 AM] Smugleaf: Yep
914[2016-07-01 2:45:17 AM] Gannon Murphy: in PES15 I used 194cm Keepers
915[2016-07-01 2:45:23 AM] Smugleaf: That's actually another thing I have planned
916[2016-07-01 2:45:29 AM] Smugleaf: I have 3 GKs on /4ccg/
917[2016-07-01 2:45:32 AM] Smugleaf: 205, 190, 190
918[2016-07-01 2:45:38 AM] Smugleaf: Guess which ones aren't getting played
919[2016-07-01 2:45:54 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'm dropping the third GK because he literally never plays
920[2016-07-01 2:46:06 AM] Smugleaf: I think BGP is on the right tracks with different height systems
921[2016-07-01 2:46:12 AM] Gannon Murphy: I ran 194,194,180 in 15
922[2016-07-01 2:46:22 AM] Smugleaf: The problem with height abuse is that not everyone wants all four players to be tall/nerfed
923[2016-07-01 2:46:41 AM] Smugleaf: Most are happy with a tall striker and GK
924[2016-07-01 2:46:46 AM] Smugleaf: And the other two can fuck off
925[2016-07-01 2:46:47 AM] Gannon Murphy: how about we just get rid of the red/green shit and just do bottom to top no nerfs
926[2016-07-01 2:46:55 AM] Gannon Murphy: go back to before the split
927[2016-07-01 2:47:18 AM] Smugleaf: If only
928[2016-07-01 2:47:26 AM] Gannon Murphy: well why not?
929[2016-07-01 2:47:32 AM] Smugleaf: We'd go back to square one
930[2016-07-01 2:47:35 AM] Background Pony: what with how common lofted throughballs are, allowing people to use apehoop gold medal strikers again would probably not be a good idea
931[2016-07-01 2:47:45 AM] Gannon Murphy: hmm, yeah I guess
932[2016-07-01 2:47:46 AM] Smugleaf: The reason for the Green/Red was because Tom/CP
933[2016-07-01 2:47:52 AM] Smugleaf: They just used tall players
934[2016-07-01 2:48:13 AM] Smugleaf: Which is why I want to cut down the gap by as much as possible
935[2016-07-01 2:48:17 AM] Smugleaf: So it doesn't matter too much
936[2016-07-01 2:48:27 AM] Smugleaf: Because people still play tall players over 165, etc
937[2016-07-01 2:48:38 AM] Smugleaf: whereas 175 isn't too bad in the end
938[2016-07-01 2:48:44 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
939[2016-07-01 2:49:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: what if we did height by position
940[2016-07-01 2:49:24 AM] Background Pony: 175~179 is a good bracket. Anything lower and the player just become too undependable.
941[2016-07-01 2:49:33 AM] Smugleaf: mmhmm
942[2016-07-01 2:49:39 AM] Background Pony: which is why rolling those brackets into 175 is a good idea
943[2016-07-01 2:49:57 AM] Smugleaf: 165-174 always made me go 'urgh, which players do I not want to play'
944[2016-07-01 2:49:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: like all the CFs on a team get a height, all the Wingers/SSs get the same height, all the AMFs get the same height, CMFs, DMFs, Fullbacks, CBs, Keepers
945[2016-07-01 2:50:24 AM] Background Pony: I think that's too autistic, and impossible to balance well with the little time we have
946[2016-07-01 2:50:37 AM] Smugleaf: wew
947[2016-07-01 2:50:42 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah that's a bit extreme
948[2016-07-01 2:51:35 AM] Gannon Murphy: like this, but you can mix around the heights however you like http://puu.sh/pMlgt/966b1484b9.png
949[2016-07-01 2:51:53 AM] Gannon Murphy: so that all the players in each position are the same hiehgt, and all the positions are different heights
950[2016-07-01 2:52:19 AM] Background Pony: >205cm CFs vs 175 cm CBs
951[2016-07-01 2:52:28 AM] Gannon Murphy: no I'm saying them anagers choose
952[2016-07-01 2:52:31 AM] Smugleaf: >CB 175
953[2016-07-01 2:52:33 AM] Smugleaf: what
954[2016-07-01 2:52:41 AM] Gannon Murphy: say they want 205cm goalies, and 170cm DMFs or somthine
955[2016-07-01 2:52:48 AM] Smugleaf: Also no, that would never work
956[2016-07-01 2:52:55 AM] Smugleaf: Because you tend to only have one CF
957[2016-07-01 2:53:00 AM] Smugleaf: But like, 5 CBs at least
958[2016-07-01 2:53:07 AM] Smugleaf: And you could have 5 205 players
959[2016-07-01 2:53:12 AM] Smugleaf: If I'm understanding this right
960[2016-07-01 2:53:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
961[2016-07-01 2:53:36 AM] Smugleaf: I tend to set out my heights like that to be fair
962[2016-07-01 2:53:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: it'd have to be simplified though, because some teams don't play every position
963[2016-07-01 2:53:48 AM] Smugleaf: But it wouldn't work that way
964[2016-07-01 2:53:56 AM] Gannon Murphy: so like, idk, forwards, mids, defenders or something
965[2016-07-01 2:53:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: eugh nvm
966[2016-07-01 2:56:53 AM] King Lear: You'd have to ban OOP players as well.
967[2016-07-01 2:56:58 AM] King Lear: It'd be a mess.
968[2016-07-01 2:57:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: yeah the more I think about it the worse it gets
969[2016-07-01 3:39:15 AM] Smugleaf: >10 games vs /block/ the past day (including the one on stream)
970>10-0-0 record
971>change /4ccg/ stats to 8 form on everyone because that's apparently an /ag/L thing
972>lose 4-0 and all but two players got a 5.5
973[2016-07-01 3:39:21 AM] Smugleaf: Does form change behaviour?
974[2016-07-01 3:39:54 AM] Smugleaf: I noticed that the players considerably changed behaviour and kept trying to skill past the other team rather than passing like they were before
975[2016-07-01 3:40:45 AM] Smugleaf: It's almost as if they were more confident than before, but sucked ass and kept getting caught out
976[2016-07-01 3:41:31 AM] HT☆Rock: Form nebulously changes performance
977[2016-07-01 3:41:45 AM] HT☆Rock: but I'd test that more to make sure it's not a black swan event
978[2016-07-01 3:46:05 AM] Smugleaf: All I know about form is that it changes the consistency of conditions
979[2016-07-01 3:46:09 AM] Smugleaf: Or at least it did
980[2016-07-01 3:48:10 AM] HT☆Rock: conditions change performance
981[2016-07-01 3:48:32 AM] Smugleaf: I test on all green
982[2016-07-01 3:52:41 AM] Smugleaf: http://puu.sh/pMnMB/b1bb5bb354.png
983[2016-07-01 3:52:42 AM] Smugleaf: Hmm
984[2016-07-01 3:52:55 AM] Smugleaf: The 77s are getting overly confident and just shooting when they shouldn't
985[2016-07-01 3:53:00 AM] Smugleaf: Hence the amount of saves
986[2016-07-01 3:53:24 AM] Smugleaf: /block/ are still on 4
987[2016-07-01 3:56:45 AM] Smugleaf: >CB heads it into his own net
988[2016-07-01 3:56:46 AM] Smugleaf: ???
989[2016-07-01 4:57:58 AM] Myuer: so apparently
990[2016-07-01 4:58:14 AM] Myuer: I am the only one ok with the current height bracket rules, right?
991[2016-07-01 5:09:20 AM] Smugleaf: It's fine gameplay wise
992[2016-07-01 5:09:56 AM] Smugleaf: But it leaves a lot of perma bench players which is eh
993[2016-07-01 5:10:26 AM] Smugleaf: /u/ most recently did it with their GKs
994[2016-07-01 5:13:49 AM] Myuer: well madokami was with height abuse as well
995[2016-07-01 5:14:19 AM] Smugleaf: Yeah, that's our point
996[2016-07-01 5:14:35 AM] Smugleaf: Height abuse led to neglected players
997[2016-07-01 5:14:40 AM] Myuer: Also hardly there is a reason to sub out the GK, at least imo
998[2016-07-01 5:14:51 AM] Smugleaf: Precisely
999[2016-07-01 5:14:57 AM] Myuer: You have one extra in the bench only in the most rare cases
1000[2016-07-01 5:15:30 AM] Smugleaf: I was going to do it with /gd/
1001[2016-07-01 5:15:46 AM] Smugleaf: But didn't like the nerfs
1002[2016-07-01 5:15:48 AM] Myuer: this is why Madokami gets never subbed out
1003[2016-07-01 5:16:00 AM] Myuer: even with purple the player plays
1004[2016-07-01 5:16:10 AM] Myuer: (also for memes, but whatever)
1005[2016-07-01 5:16:34 AM] Myuer: infact I never get why some teams has 3 gk
1006[2016-07-01 5:16:43 AM] Smugleaf: Neither
1007[2016-07-01 5:17:02 AM] Smugleaf: /4ccg/ has it for a name theme
1008[2016-07-01 5:17:19 AM] Smugleaf: They are all circlejerks
1009[2016-07-01 5:17:39 AM] Smugleaf: But I wouldn't do it in a cup
1010[2016-07-01 5:18:39 AM] Myuer: infact I recall in winter we played a match with Madokami in purple condition
1011[2016-07-01 5:18:46 AM] Myuer: it was the QF or the semifinal probably
1012[2016-07-01 5:21:49 AM] Myuer: as long that the 4/4 foot weak accuracy is reserved for one bracket, you can change stuff around with it
1013[2016-07-02 1:15:37 PM] Background Pony: Here are the tests I've ran (compared to the original FT2 on vanilla 1.04):
1014[2016-07-02 1:15:39 PM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pNQOQ/fe9a7bfa3e.png
1015[2016-07-02 1:16:55 PM] Background Pony: Overall I'd say I'm not a big fan. The amount of shots has been greatly reduced, but the amount of goals has stayed about the same.
1016[2016-07-02 1:17:24 PM] Background Pony: There are less saves, but this is because there were less shots, and defenders blocked more shots as well.
1017[2016-07-02 1:17:52 PM] Background Pony: defenders on average do their jobs better, but this also means goals tend to be very samey.
1018[2016-07-02 1:18:54 PM] Background Pony: There were zero headers, or goals scored from corners. Lofted crosses were not dangerous at all.
1019[2016-07-02 1:19:28 PM] Background Pony: On the plus side, the effectiveness from lofted throughballs was reduced by a lot as well.
1020[2016-07-02 1:19:57 PM] Background Pony: Especially the very long 'hail mary' lofted throughballs
1021[2016-07-02 1:21:41 PM] Background Pony: Goals result from good passing play in/around the box, short, low throughpasses and the occasional blooter from the edge of the box.
1022[2016-07-02 1:22:07 PM] Background Pony: but as I said, no headers, no acrobatic goals or amazing volleys.
1023[2016-07-02 1:22:37 PM | Edited 1:22:51 PM] Background Pony: nerfing golds didn't really reduce their accuracy, but it reduced their style
1024[2016-07-02 2:59:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: what formations were the teams in these tests?
1025[2016-07-02 3:00:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: becase "Goals result from good passing play in/around the box" is just 4-3-3winslol
1026[2016-07-02 3:00:56 PM] Myuer: Also the GK efficiency was worse
1027[2016-07-02 3:01:04 PM] Gannon Murphy: so if that's the kind of play that wins games with this setup, then that just biases the game more toward 4-3-3
1028[2016-07-02 3:26:39 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 12:18 PM
1029> There were zero headers, or goals scored from corners. Lofted crosses were not dangerous at all.
1030Here I question your card setup/corner takers, as this didn't come up in my tests at all
1031[2016-07-02 3:30:07 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 12:22 PM
1032> but as I said, no headers, no acrobatic goals or amazing volleys.
1033Again, card setup.  Did any of your golds have Heel Trick/Acrobatic Finishing/Heading, because those actually matter worth a damn in 95/90/80
1034[2016-07-02 3:31:11 PM | Edited 3:31:59 PM] HT☆Rock: GK Efficiency got worse as they faced fewer, but more accurate shots, Myuer
1035[2016-07-02 3:32:09 PM] Myuer: ???
1036[2016-07-02 3:32:14 PM] Myuer: ah ok
1037[2016-07-02 3:32:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: we don't want to reduce shots though
1038[2016-07-02 3:32:18 PM] Myuer: now I saw the edit
1039[2016-07-02 3:32:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: we want to reduce goals/shots
1040[2016-07-02 3:33:17 PM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 2:32 PM
1041> we want to reduce goals
1042There we go
1043[2016-07-02 3:33:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: Not at the expense of quality we dont
1044[2016-07-02 3:36:11 PM] HT☆Rock: Again, card choice
1045[2016-07-02 3:36:36 PM] HT☆Rock: I don't know what happy bullshit the horsefuckers are running, so it's hard to use them as a control
1046[2016-07-02 3:36:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: also I'd like to point out that the goals per game in both of those series of tests is significantly lower than we've seen in Spring and VGL
1047[2016-07-02 3:37:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: which is to say retarded formations will always have more goals
1048[2016-07-02 3:37:46 PM] HT☆Rock: But, going off the data: the least prolific team in the horsefucker league on vanilla got more prolific, at the expense of several more prolific vanilla teams having drastically reduced GF
1049[2016-07-02 3:38:30 PM] HT☆Rock: /cdf/ scored almost half the goals they did in vanilla
1050[2016-07-02 3:38:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: My stat nerf cup is ongoing but ive written a good bit. I'll see what the rest of the games are like.
1051[2016-07-02 3:39:34 PM] HT☆Rock: /egg/, /wdb/ and /pnk/ got better goals wise, the others got worse
1052[2016-07-02 6:03:10 PM] Background Pony: [July 2, 2016 2:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
1053
1054<<< what formations were the teams in these tests?a variety of 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 3-4-3, and a 5-4-1
1055[2016-07-02 6:03:34 PM] Background Pony: Im not going to give away the exact formations and/or cards, for obvious reasons.
1056[2016-07-02 6:03:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: of course, but you would say they're all functional at defense, yes?
1057[2016-07-02 6:04:12 PM] HT☆Rock: well we can't use those as anything but broad data points then
1058[2016-07-02 6:04:14 PM] Background Pony: There's variety in there, though. There are teams using acrobatic finishing, and teams that set up players for crosses.
1059[2016-07-02 6:04:41 PM] HT☆Rock: because we don't know if you just suck at tactics or if the card setups are optimal or anything
1060[2016-07-02 6:04:52 PM] HT☆Rock: this is why I suggested using already established teams
1061[2016-07-02 6:05:08 PM] HT☆Rock: in the previous cups
1062[2016-07-02 6:05:18 PM] Background Pony: our whole point was variety, because FT1 had basically just a bunch of 3-5-2s and a wide 4-2-2-2, and the wide 4-2-2-2 rekt all of them, but then did terrible in the cup because there were no "3-5-2"s
1063[2016-07-02 6:05:52 PM] Background Pony: I think our past performance should be enough of an indicator that we do not suck at tactics, but whatever
1064[2016-07-02 6:06:18 PM] HT☆Rock: >winter
1065[2016-07-02 6:06:19 PM] HT☆Rock: (chuckle)
1066[2016-07-02 6:06:43 PM] HT☆Rock: but it's a change in system, a change in stats, and /mlp/ didn't really light the world on fire fam
1067[2016-07-02 6:07:00 PM] Background Pony: meme all you want, I think we did well enough given the circumstances
1068[2016-07-02 6:07:03 PM] HT☆Rock: Regardless of how good a manager you think you are, it's more useful to have known properties amongst the entire group
1069[2016-07-02 6:07:17 PM] Background Pony: winter was basically damage control every single game
1070[2016-07-02 6:07:21 PM] HT☆Rock: and the known properties are those who succeeded very well in the previous two 4CC cups
1071[2016-07-02 6:07:45 PM] HT☆Rock: Or the ones who sucked out loud
1072[2016-07-02 6:07:57 PM] Background Pony: youre not going to know what teams will be playing in summer either
1073[2016-07-02 6:09:28 PM] HT☆Rock: The purpose is to use teams that did well previously to see how the stat changes affect teams we know how they should and did play
1074[2016-07-02 6:10:09 PM] HT☆Rock: And then you compare them to teams that sucked to see if the changes make them better or worse in comparison, for the sake of measuring parity
1075[2016-07-02 6:10:31 PM] HT☆Rock: The purpose is to have the previous teams' tactics as a control
1076[2016-07-02 6:10:40 PM | Edited 6:10:43 PM] HT☆Rock: and the dependent variable is the ruleset change
1077[2016-07-02 6:10:44 PM] Background Pony: no, the purpose is to provide data that gives you an idea what the difference is between vanilla 1.04 and the proposed rules
1078[2016-07-02 6:10:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^'
1079[2016-07-02 6:10:54 PM] Background Pony: I gave you data, and now youre moving goalposts
1080[2016-07-02 6:11:09 PM] HT☆Rock: I accepted the data you horsefucking bastard
1081[2016-07-02 6:11:25 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm saying we should also test with teams we all know how they work
1082[2016-07-02 6:11:35 PM] HT☆Rock: because you're saving muh super sekrit tictacs
1083[2016-07-02 6:11:39 PM] HT☆Rock: you cocksucker
1084[2016-07-02 6:11:54 PM] HT☆Rock: The data points are sound
1085[2016-07-02 6:11:56 PM] HT☆Rock: the numbers work
1086[2016-07-02 6:12:28 PM] HT☆Rock: your impressions aren't useful because we have no idea what your horsefucker teams look like outside of basic formation numbers
1087[2016-07-02 6:13:13 PM] Background Pony: youre doing that with the /ag/ league, arent you
1088[2016-07-02 6:13:36 PM] HT☆Rock: Yes, but not everyone is watching the /ag/ league
1089[2016-07-02 6:13:51 PM] Background Pony: that's not my problem
1090[2016-07-02 6:13:57 PM] HT☆Rock: and the /ag/ league is 1.04 harlock
1091[2016-07-02 6:14:14 PM] HT☆Rock: we need 1.04 vanilla with the stat compression as well
1092[2016-07-02 6:14:20 PM] HT☆Rock: which I think JB is doing
1093[2016-07-02 6:14:48 PM] Background Pony: then I don't see what the big issue is
1094[2016-07-02 6:17:13 PM | Edited 6:17:23 PM] Background Pony: my impressions stand based on what I've seen so far in the FT2 cup I tested. If JB sees something different in his tests, then we can debate about why that is or could be.
1095[2016-07-02 6:17:18 PM] HT☆Rock: The issue is that your value judgments are useless in the face of the rest of us having incomplete information of the teams used or their basic sliders
1096[2016-07-02 6:17:41 PM] HT☆Rock: The /ag/L you can download the teams and see what dumb bullshit they run
1097[2016-07-02 6:18:08 PM] HT☆Rock: The standard 4CC teams you can download and watch klaxa VODs to see how they should play
1098[2016-07-02 6:18:13 PM] HT☆Rock: The horsefucker cup...
1099[2016-07-02 6:18:19 PM] HT☆Rock: You see where this is going, right?
1100[2016-07-02 6:20:37 PM] Background Pony: I get your point. I disagree with your opinion that my views have no value because you can't scrutinize the teams I used to produce the games.
1101[2016-07-02 6:21:12 PM] HT☆Rock: Your data is useful, though
1102[2016-07-02 6:23:04 PM] HT☆Rock: but views that cannot be confirmed or denied by others due to hidden information aren't helpful in a group setting
1103[2016-07-02 6:23:49 PM] HT☆Rock: Which is why I stress using previous teams, so we don't run into the exact problem we're having now
1104[2016-07-03 2:10:55 PM] Myuer: so ugh
1105[2016-07-03 2:11:21 PM] Myuer: the impression so far of the agleague is kinda bad, I don't see noticeable changes
1106[2016-07-03 2:27:20 PM] Myuer: lel the benches on agleague
1107[2016-07-03 2:27:22 PM] Myuer: my sides
1108[2016-07-03 2:27:55 PM] Duke Silver: Was there a single Purple player in the first two matches, even on the bench?
1109[2016-07-03 2:28:33 PM] Myuer: Anyway.
1110[2016-07-03 2:29:09 PM] Myuer: I didn't see anything revolutionary or something noteceable as changes.
1111[2016-07-03 2:36:14 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 1:27 PM
1112> Was there a single Purple player in the first two matches, even on the bench?
1113BXB Masa RX was purple
1114[2016-07-03 2:36:53 PM] HT☆Rock: Saves are up like whoa and efficiency is slightly down
1115[2016-07-03 2:37:17 PM] HT☆Rock: But there's still goofy bullshit because meme teams playing other meme teams
1116[2016-07-03 2:37:19 PM] Duke Silver: /Seinfeld/ and /Ireland/ were both using Height Abuse keepers, I don't know about the second match
1117[2016-07-03 2:37:40 PM] HT☆Rock: /aus/'s everything was fucked
1118[2016-07-03 2:37:54 PM] HT☆Rock: Golds nerfed to 91, bronzes on 77
1119[2016-07-03 2:37:56 PM] Myuer: Weren't we supposed to take this seriously as meter? lel
1120[2016-07-03 2:38:23 PM] HT☆Rock: Well nobody did here when we said we were
1121[2016-07-03 2:38:23 PM] Duke Silver: /Seinfeld/ was serious, maybe a little experimental but not a meme formation
1122[2016-07-03 2:38:27 PM] HT☆Rock: So nobody did
1123[2016-07-03 2:38:51 PM] HT☆Rock: All the formations are legit except /hsrpg/ because doogie is retarded
1124[2016-07-03 2:39:02 PM] Duke Silver: Which is why I think I agree with HT that "Teams that we know did well in official PES 16 cups" should be the baseline
1125[2016-07-03 2:39:07 PM] HT☆Rock: But nobody's trying to win or some shit
1126[2016-07-03 2:39:36 PM] King Lear: And I can assure you that SDA has made an export that is inline with what he considers legit.
1127[2016-07-03 2:39:50 PM] Myuer: I agree with that too Duke Silver, but then what is the point of all of this? The wiki description was literally a lie?
1128[2016-07-03 2:40:05 PM] HT☆Rock: Do you have the 'tism?
1129[2016-07-03 2:40:13 PM] Myuer: Nope just asking
1130[2016-07-03 2:40:20 PM] Myuer: Like a normal human being.
1131[2016-07-03 2:40:41 PM] King Lear: The tactics I submitted are legit.
1132[2016-07-03 2:40:47 PM] HT☆Rock: People are running what they think is good in a stat compression harlock competition
1133[2016-07-03 2:41:01 PM] HT☆Rock: You just have people like >SDA
1134[2016-07-03 2:41:10 PM] HT☆Rock: And experimental tactics
1135[2016-07-03 2:41:35 PM] Duke Silver: We just can't go into the end of the week with an excuse to disallow "This test" or "That test". Because they're meme tactics, or because we can't see the tactics that each team is running because they're private, or whatever other excuse we end up with
1136[2016-07-03 2:41:35 PM] HT☆Rock: And a lot of teams playing heavy offense because that's what's meme good
1137[2016-07-03 2:42:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Also it's been two fucking matches Myuer, damn
1138[2016-07-03 2:42:22 PM] Myuer: Damn. Do you know something called first impression?
1139[2016-07-03 2:42:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: imo the best point of reference for the agl is the vgl
1140[2016-07-03 2:42:37 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 1:39 PM
1141> Which is why I think I agree with HT that "Teams that we know did well in official PES 16 cups" should be the baseline
1142Which is why I said it
1143[2016-07-03 2:43:01 PM] HT☆Rock: Myuer - Today 1:42 PM
1144> Damn. Do you know something called first impression?
1145Do you know something called "wait and see", fam?
1146[2016-07-03 2:43:01 PM] Myuer: [July 3, 2016 2:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1147
1148<<< imo the best point of reference for the agl is the vglI agree with this as well
1149[2016-07-03 2:43:17 PM] HT☆Rock: If you're going to do this right, you need a body of evidence
1150[2016-07-03 2:43:28 PM] HT☆Rock: Two games is not a body of evidence
1151[2016-07-03 2:43:38 PM] Myuer: This is why it's called "first impression" fam
1152[2016-07-03 2:43:43 PM] HT☆Rock: Fucking hell, at least attempt some scientific rigor here
1153[2016-07-03 2:44:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Fuck your first impression
1154[2016-07-03 2:44:14 PM] Myuer: "Fuck your argument" ok
1155[2016-07-03 2:44:33 PM] Myuer: It's only first impression. So far I didn't notice any changes.
1156[2016-07-03 2:44:42 PM] Myuer: Then if in the future I'm wrong, I'll be only happy.
1157[2016-07-03 2:44:59 PM] HT☆Rock: Just watch the rest of the damn games
1158[2016-07-03 2:45:19 PM] Myuer: I don't have a time machine to tell you how it is in the end, that's all. I'm judging what I saw so far.
1159[2016-07-03 2:47:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: lear what's the deadline for this chat to make a decision
1160[2016-07-03 2:47:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: the 9th right?
1161[2016-07-03 2:55:20 PM] King Lear: 9th.
1162[2016-07-03 3:07:25 PM] HT☆Rock: The 9th
1163[2016-07-03 3:07:31 PM] HT☆Rock: Are you shitting me fam
1164[2016-07-03 3:07:50 PM] Myuer: the 9th there is the new rules announcement
1165[2016-07-03 3:08:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Fuck
1166[2016-07-03 3:08:15 PM] HT☆Rock: JB, how's your test cup coming
1167[2016-07-03 3:08:25 PM] Myuer: Infact if we don't manage in time, I'd suggest to move it at least for the 10th
1168[2016-07-03 3:08:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: through two rounds of groups
1169[2016-07-03 3:08:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: 4 games plus >knockouts to go
1170[2016-07-03 3:09:20 PM] HT☆Rock: AGL stat compression on vanilla, right?
1171[2016-07-03 3:09:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
1172[2016-07-03 3:10:00 PM] HT☆Rock: Which teams, so I can run concurrently with you
1173[2016-07-03 3:10:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: I doubt we'll get the same results since I have them on custom slider sets
1174[2016-07-03 3:10:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: later tonight I can get you those though
1175[2016-07-03 3:10:29 PM] HT☆Rock: Thanks fam
1176[2016-07-03 3:10:46 PM] HT☆Rock: Actually, just puush me your edit.bin
1177[2016-07-03 3:11:09 PM] Myuer: [June 29, 2016 11:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1178
1179<<< winter knockouts: /fit/, /tv/, /s/
1180spring knockouts: /trv/, /wg/, /lit/
1181neither: /po/, /b/
1182[2016-07-03 3:11:15 PM] HT☆Rock: Remove your sooper sekrit /fit/ tictacs first (^:
1183[2016-07-03 3:11:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm on my phone
1184[2016-07-03 3:11:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: so tonight
1185[2016-07-03 3:11:52 PM] HT☆Rock: Cool, because I have to be somewhere soonish
1186[2016-07-03 3:12:03 PM] HT☆Rock: And will be back at night
1187[2016-07-03 3:12:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: and yeah I have a test cup's worth of custom teams on there so I may just write it out
1188[2016-07-03 7:54:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: HT https://puu.sh/pPkYE/8ef647c291.txt
1189[2016-07-03 8:49:15 PM] HT☆Rock: Gracias
1190[2016-07-04 4:10:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: Here's my test cup on 80/90/95 and a rather lengthy writeup on it https://puu.sh/pQi5I/caa8ec594b.txt
1191[2016-07-04 4:20:17 PM] Background Pony: What exactly is /trv/ball?
1192[2016-07-04 4:20:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: just a name I gave to 4-3-3 hyper offense no midfield
1193[2016-07-04 4:20:49 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /m/ kind of run it
1194[2016-07-04 4:20:54 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /r9k/ ran it
1195[2016-07-04 4:21:27 PM] Background Pony: ahh, jeah I would say /m/ has been kind of the posterchild for that kind of play since forever
1196[2016-07-04 4:22:59 PM] Background Pony: in my experience sheer offense can get you out of groups easily, but you eventually have a game where your offense is just sleepy, and you egt detroyed because lolnodefense
1197[2016-07-04 4:23:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: I prefer balanced play to those kinds of setups, but the current format does make it possible to win big a lot with a very attacking 4-3-3 just because 3 medal strikers vs 77s
1198[2016-07-04 4:23:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: and yeah you often do run into that one game where your offense just doesn't show up
1199[2016-07-04 4:25:59 PM] Background Pony: I'll probably run a FT2 test on 99/90/81, to see how that does
1200[2016-07-04 4:26:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: something like that seemed to be a logical next step to look into after looking at this
1201[2016-07-04 4:27:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: did you see a lot of similar stuff to what I wrote about in your test cup?
1202[2016-07-04 4:27:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: or were there any significant variations
1203[2016-07-04 4:27:31 PM] Background Pony: in my experience I saw a lot less succesful lofted through passes
1204[2016-07-04 4:28:01 PM] Background Pony: they tended to be low, played into channels
1205[2016-07-04 4:28:35 PM] Background Pony: I saw no headers at all. No direct goals from crosses or corners.
1206[2016-07-04 4:28:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: chipping it over the backline was common in certain games and nonexistent in others
1207[2016-07-04 4:28:57 PM] Background Pony: even by teams with first time shot and/or acrobatic finishing
1208[2016-07-04 4:29:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: crossing seemed greatly reduced both in rate and effectiveness
1209[2016-07-04 4:29:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: I remember like one corner goal
1210[2016-07-04 4:29:48 PM] Background Pony: I assume the defense just deals better with crosses at 80 stats
1211[2016-07-04 4:29:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: probably
1212[2016-07-04 4:30:23 PM] Background Pony: maybe unnerfed golds can get enough height or space, though
1213[2016-07-04 4:31:20 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 3:10 PM
1214> Here's my test cup on 80/90/95 and a rather lengthy writeup on it https://puu.sh/pQi5I/caa8ec594b.txt
1215Good shit GOOD SHIT (ok) (cwl)
1216[2016-07-04 4:32:17 PM] Background Pony: as for the rest, (defensive) passing was definitely improved, like you said, and I felt that the number of 'unfair' games was increased. Where a keeper performance basically caused a team to win, eventhough they had a worse performance in every other aspect.
1217[2016-07-04 4:32:34 PM] HT☆Rock: But now that we have confirmation on the unsexy gold play, I'm willing to dick around with golds being 99 again
1218[2016-07-04 4:33:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't think 95 golds accomplished the reduced finishing that nerfing golds were looking for. Lowered goal rates came from better defense more than missing open shots.
1219[2016-07-04 4:33:47 PM] Background Pony: I had one game of questionable momentum, where a team with a lousy first half performance came back from 0 - 3 behind to a 3 - 3 draw in the second half
1220[2016-07-04 4:34:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't see any gigantic shifts, that was nice
1221[2016-07-04 4:34:31 PM] Background Pony: but there were not many shots in that game, so that makes it hard to judge if it really was momentum, or whether it was just a low shots game diceroll
1222[2016-07-04 4:35:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: I talk about this in there, but I think that offensive structures of some of these teams were unsuited for this format but work in 77/88/99
1223[2016-07-04 4:35:28 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /s/ and /fit/ put up great shot numbers
1224[2016-07-04 4:36:35 PM] Background Pony: shots in the tests I ran were reduced by like, 30% or so. Which I really didn't like.
1225[2016-07-04 4:36:55 PM] Background Pony: Especially when the amount of goals stays relatively the same.
1226[2016-07-04 4:37:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: oh I'd certainly say that shots were reduced, I just think the format has enough potential for that to go up
1227[2016-07-04 4:37:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: and my goal totals went down to a good amount
1228[2016-07-04 4:37:51 PM] Background Pony: there might be a degree of PES randomness involved, since shotcount differs so much between repeat games
1229[2016-07-04 4:38:42 PM | Edited 4:38:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah this definitely encourages more randomness, especially with those 1-5, 1-4 games that had similar shotcounts for each team
1230[2016-07-04 4:39:15 PM] Background Pony: I liked the PES15 statistics a lot more, when you had more shots but less goals
1231[2016-07-04 4:40:00 PM] Smugleaf: Can we remove /s/
1232[2016-07-04 4:40:24 PM | Edited 4:40:34 PM] HT☆Rock: After we remove /mlp/ ^: )
1233[2016-07-04 4:40:25 PM] Background Pony: I do feel like PES16 sometimes feels like it has a goal-quota, where less shots mean the strikers become more accurate/keepers become dumber, in order to guarantee goals, but that is most likely just confirmation bias
1234[2016-07-04 4:40:29 PM | Edited 4:40:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: HT can you run your version of this with 99 golds
1235[2016-07-04 4:40:43 PM] HT☆Rock: Certainly
1236[2016-07-04 4:41:44 PM] Background Pony: how was your test cup on saves?
1237[2016-07-04 4:42:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: About the same
1238[2016-07-04 4:42:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: Keepers were better but faced higher quality shots
1239[2016-07-04 4:42:39 PM] HT☆Rock: Also, a specific thing to watch for here would be conversions from width: headers, lofted/drilled crosses, corners, etc.
1240[2016-07-04 4:42:43 PM] HT☆Rock: Right?
1241[2016-07-04 4:42:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: CBs were much better at getting in the way of shots
1242[2016-07-04 4:43:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: Sure, that's why I took screenshots of final stats
1243[2016-07-04 4:43:13 PM] HT☆Rock: That was the main thing I noticed on my end too: the last line was worlds better on closing down
1244[2016-07-04 4:43:57 PM] Background Pony: keeper ratio (saves vs. shots on target) actually went down for me.
1245[2016-07-04 4:44:10 PM] Background Pony: presumably because of better CBs
1246[2016-07-04 4:46:07 PM] HT☆Rock: That seems logical, yeah
1247[2016-07-04 4:47:24 PM] HT☆Rock: With more eyes on the prize, I'm thinking the path of least resistance would be just a bronze buff to 80
1248[2016-07-04 4:54:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: what is everyone's opinion of the /ag/l so far (mostly HT since he's the only one watching afaik)
1249[2016-07-04 4:54:49 PM] King Lear: I'm watching but I don't count.
1250[2016-07-04 4:55:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure you do
1251[2016-07-04 4:55:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: in the end you're the only one who does (^:
1252[2016-07-04 4:56:37 PM] King Lear: I like it but I'm not sure what to make of it because some teams are spiking the averages with horrid formations. Definitely less muh mentum and stuff, non-medals seem to be in a better place but I want to see what happens with them as strikers on a not shit team.
1253[2016-07-04 4:57:03 PM] King Lear: Case in point: /hsrpg/
1254[2016-07-04 5:09:32 PM] HT☆Rock: General consensus from the like three people watching it is the games are exciting and feel less bullshit: good seeming teams do alright, bad seeming teams get scraped, and the 5-6 goal a side game is a rarer thing
1255[2016-07-04 5:10:13 PM] HT☆Rock: The final 16 should make a good base to make decisions on for a more solid test cup
1256[2016-07-04 5:10:35 PM] HT☆Rock: It's basically the /vg/l but with daddy's cummies and less insanity
1257[2016-07-04 5:15:03 PM] HT☆Rock: I have no idea what the fuck doogie was doing here though
1258[2016-07-04 5:15:06 PM] HT☆Rock: outside of being doogie
1259[2016-07-04 5:17:37 PM] King Lear: Considering these are two 3-3-4s this match is low scoring. Must be because they're both set up like ass on top of it all.
1260[2016-07-04 5:19:08 PM] HT☆Rock: yeah
1261[2016-07-04 5:54:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: I ran 99/90/81 in 1.03 and I liked it well enough.  1.04 is an improvement so there's no reason to say it wouldn't be at least a minor improvement there too.
1262[2016-07-04 5:55:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: One thing I don't like about 95/90/80 is that it's a 5 point jump from silver to gold but a 10 point one from bronze to silver
1263[2016-07-04 5:55:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'd like to maintain that dynamic, personally
1264[2016-07-04 6:26:59 PM | Edited 6:27:10 PM] HT☆Rock: Chance has singlehandedly fucked this whole agl
1265[2016-07-04 6:27:07 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to nuke Canada
1266[2016-07-04 6:27:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
1267[2016-07-04 6:34:13 PM] King Lear: Just hit the Maritimes. Nothing of value will be lost.
1268[2016-07-04 6:34:25 PM] King Lear: If you're lucky you'll take out Quebec too.
1269[2016-07-04 6:54:48 PM] Myuer: Idk, JB. Putting back golds at 99 with keeping silvers and bronze at 90/80 dosen't sound that good idea for me
1270[2016-07-04 6:55:18 PM] Myuer: At this rate, just stay with the normal stats as always
1271[2016-07-04 6:55:31 PM] HT☆Rock: have you done any testing?
1272[2016-07-04 6:56:33 PM] Myuer: with 99/88/77 yes, with moeshit settings too. Never tried this 95-90-80, I'm just reading what he did write.
1273[2016-07-04 6:59:03 PM] Myuer: and from what he wrote, seems that 95-90-80 is a very good option
1274[2016-07-04 7:05:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know if I'd call my conclusion "very good" tbh
1275[2016-07-04 7:06:42 PM] Duke Silver: What are you looking to see from 99/90/80 that you didn't see from 95/90/80 though? I'd be happy to run through something similar tonight, or something else if you've got any hunches
1276[2016-07-04 7:06:50 PM] Duke Silver: Not like I've got anything going on tonight, already did my America
1277[2016-07-04 7:07:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: More inspiration and variance in offensive play
1278[2016-07-04 7:07:23 PM] Myuer: Well, about the CB being better with the slightly buff I noticed it even in the moeshit settings, they were blocking more, and stopping the action from being made. The same thing happened in agleague from the bit that I saw.
1279[2016-07-04 7:11:36 PM] HT☆Rock: First matchday down, moving into the second
1280[2016-07-04 7:54:39 PM] HT☆Rock: Apropos of nothing, you got /lit/'s sliders wrong JB
1281[2016-07-04 7:54:50 PM] HT☆Rock: which is surprising since San Man posted them in /ag/ multiple times
1282[2016-07-04 7:56:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't read /ag/ unless I'm pinged
1283[2016-07-04 8:03:03 PM] King Lear: Wasn't it that he was going to play possession but every time he tested he just decided counter was the better option?
1284[2016-07-05 12:09:49 AM] HT☆Rock: No
1285[2016-07-05 12:09:55 AM] HT☆Rock: he played possession against /cm/
1286[2016-07-05 12:10:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: hehe
1287[2016-07-05 12:10:02 AM] HT☆Rock: almost done with the cup boyes
1288[2016-07-05 12:10:13 AM] JohnnyBravo: [July 5, 2016 12:10 AM] Gannon Murphy: 
1289
1290<<< hehet
1291[2016-07-05 12:10:21 AM] Gannon Murphy: srsly tho who gives a shit what Marino actually ran, /lit/ wasn't even that good
1292[2016-07-05 12:10:29 AM] JohnnyBravo: ya pretty much
1293[2016-07-05 12:10:35 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'm sure JB's sliders were perfectly adequate if not better than what Marino ran
1294[2016-07-05 12:10:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: I dunno /lit/ kinda sucked in this
1295[2016-07-05 12:11:01 AM] Gannon Murphy: because /lit/ was an entirely underwhelming team
1296[2016-07-05 12:11:05 AM] HT☆Rock: carma if I wanted your opinion I would rape it out of you
1297[2016-07-05 12:11:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's not rape if I enjoy it
1298[2016-07-05 12:11:16 AM] HT☆Rock: they're in the finals of my test cup currently
1299[2016-07-05 12:11:18 AM] Gannon Murphy: faggot
1300[2016-07-05 12:11:28 AM] JohnnyBravo: what's the actual set out of curiosity
1301[2016-07-05 12:11:35 AM] HT☆Rock: There were several
1302[2016-07-05 12:11:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: true for most teams
1303[2016-07-05 12:11:51 AM] Gannon Murphy: also >having one set of sliders
1304t. smulel
1305[2016-07-05 12:12:28 AM | Edited 12:13:41 AM] HT☆Rock: The one I'm using is c/s/c/m/4/few f/w/a/3/6/medium
1306[2016-07-05 12:13:00 AM] JohnnyBravo: >few
1307well that would fix them conceding like crazy I guess
1308[2016-07-05 1:59:58 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pQN6m/2bac3d57e2.txt
1309the damn'd deed is done
1310[2016-07-05 4:38:20 AM] Background Pony: >Fouls are definitely called more, some games turned into Pro Evolution Offsides.
1311[2016-07-05 4:38:42 AM] Background Pony: I had a red card in one of my tests, but the team still won with one man down, so I counted the result anyway
1312[2016-07-05 4:38:51 AM] Background Pony: normally I start over
1313[2016-07-05 8:36:38 AM] Myuer: but 99 Golds can just ignore the CBs if they're big enough.
1314[2016-07-05 8:36:40 AM] Myuer: this is bad
1315[2016-07-05 8:41:25 AM] Background Pony: Im running a 81/90/99 cup at the moment and holy shit is it slurpy
1316[2016-07-05 8:41:48 AM] Background Pony: four games in, Ive got three 1-1 draws and one 2-1
1317[2016-07-05 8:42:08 AM] Background Pony: fifth game's looking like it'll end in a 1-1 draw as well
1318[2016-07-05 8:42:35 AM] Myuer: well this makes question which sliders are you running
1319[2016-07-05 8:43:50 AM] Background Pony: each team running their own tactics that people tested for and worked well. Like I said, a variation of counter/short and possession/short tactics, generally with slightly deeper defensive lines and higher compactness. Nothing revolutionary.
1320[2016-07-05 9:08:42 AM] Background Pony: and now I have a game with two goals in the first 5 minutes
1321[2016-07-05 9:13:22 AM] Background Pony: haha, a defender just nutmegged a gold striker
1322[2016-07-05 9:20:15 AM] JohnnyBravo: so golds being restored made them get on the end of more throughballs, yay (dull)
1323[2016-07-05 9:20:51 AM] Background Pony: no, I think the problems is actually the bronze players
1324[2016-07-05 9:20:51 AM] JohnnyBravo: I don't think saying that 6/8 teams on c/s/c isn't representative of the tactics in play in the cup though
1325[2016-07-05 9:20:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: also /fit/ actually playing like I drew it up, wew
1326[2016-07-05 9:21:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: in winter every team but /out/ sold out against througballs and we played through the fullbacks
1327[2016-07-05 9:21:39 AM] Background Pony: I'd say the variation between counter and posession is pretty much 50/50
1328[2016-07-05 9:22:53 AM] Background Pony: but what I'm seeing in this test cup is that 81 bronze players in 1.04 are just too good
1329[2016-07-05 9:22:55 AM] JohnnyBravo:  /fit/: both /u/: counter /out/: counter /mu/: both /s4s/: counter /gd/: counter /s/: both /an/: counter
1330 /m/: counter /vr/: both /r9k/: counter /v/: poss
1331[2016-07-05 9:24:31 AM] JohnnyBravo: also ht /s/ play really well on my system for some reason which is why I picked them and they went to ET in the final. Either way I was aiming to have both a broad representation and have a few more on the average side of things because if I ran a test cup with nothing but top teams you'd leave yourself open to weaker teams blowing the format wide open.
1332[2016-07-05 9:25:25 AM] JohnnyBravo: I agree that boosted nonmedals are too good offensively with 99 golds based on what I'm seeing here. It kinda confirms my suspicions that stats scale non-linearly. Perhaps defense-specific boosts to bronzes a la the old prowess method?
1333[2016-07-05 9:26:49 AM] Background Pony: a boost from 80 to 81 for instance is by definition larger than for instance from 95 to 96
1334[2016-07-05 9:27:50 AM] Background Pony: eight games in I'm looking at this:
1335[2016-07-05 9:27:51 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pR4M3/770d24bf83.png
1336[2016-07-05 9:29:04 AM] JohnnyBravo: HT's cup has some good scorelines, the issue is just how much you harm how the game looks to get there
1337[2016-07-05 9:29:23 AM] Background Pony: jeah, that's the main issue
1338[2016-07-05 9:29:41 AM] Background Pony: these game scorelines might look okay to some people, but holy shit the games are so slurpy
1339[2016-07-05 9:31:50 AM] Background Pony: I do think 99  golds is a must, though. There may have been less goals, but the goals do look a lot better and varied than 95 golds medal goals.
1340[2016-07-05 9:32:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: especially if every goal is just going to be a gigantic counterattack/throughball
1341[2016-07-05 9:32:06 AM] Background Pony: more volleys, etc. Still no headers/corner goals, though
1342[2016-07-05 9:32:18 AM] JohnnyBravo: I think 95 helps but that we can achieve similar results without leaving 99s
1343[2016-07-05 9:32:36 AM] JohnnyBravo: I just wonder how drastic it would have to get
1344[2016-07-05 9:32:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: maybe even a changed medal system, I dunno
1345[2016-07-05 9:36:59 AM] Myuer: [July 5, 2016 9:27 AM] Background Pony: 
1346
1347<<< man I love those scorelines if you ask me
1348[2016-07-05 9:37:16 AM] Background Pony: the games are boring as fuck
1349[2016-07-05 9:37:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: but it's really not about the scorelines, it's about how you get there
1350[2016-07-05 9:37:54 AM] Myuer: Well, since I can't see those teams in action (the ones of Background Pony) I'm judging from the only stats that he can post here
1351[2016-07-05 9:38:18 AM] Myuer: Maybe it's uncommon here, but I'd be totally fine with games finishing 1-0, 1-1. 2-2. 3-2, 2-1
1352[2016-07-05 9:38:19 AM] Myuer: etc
1353[2016-07-05 9:38:41 AM] JohnnyBravo: what ruleset is this, 81/90/99 right
1354[2016-07-05 9:38:52 AM] Myuer: Ofc, you need to get them exiting
1355[2016-07-05 9:39:27 AM] Background Pony: jeah, its 81/90/99
1356[2016-07-05 9:39:38 AM] Background Pony: 8 form keepers, orange conditions, no subs
1357[2016-07-05 9:39:44 AM] Myuer: btw since I'm free from all exams, if you want I can run things too
1358[2016-07-05 9:42:03 AM] Myuer: Give me instructions in case and I'll do that
1359[2016-07-05 9:42:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: I'm just trying to think of where we want to go from here
1360[2016-07-05 9:42:56 AM] Myuer: The fact is, we have testings with 80-90-95, 80-90-99
1361[2016-07-05 9:43:06 AM] Myuer: and now BGP is running with 81-90-99 right?
1362[2016-07-05 9:43:29 AM] JohnnyBravo: yes, which isn't very much of a departure from the latter but good confirmation that we probably shouldn't use that system
1363[2016-07-05 9:43:56 AM] Myuer: The problem is that we have around 4 days to settle this
1364[2016-07-05 9:43:58 AM] JohnnyBravo: there's also the possibility of harlock
1365[2016-07-05 9:44:00 AM] Background Pony: maybe do some tests with defensive buffs for bronze medals?
1366[2016-07-05 9:44:10 AM] Myuer: buff more nomedals?
1367[2016-07-05 9:44:11 AM] JohnnyBravo: kind of what I was thinking
1368[2016-07-05 9:44:18 AM] Myuer: or only defense players?
1369[2016-07-05 9:44:26 AM] JohnnyBravo: all nonmedals
1370[2016-07-05 9:44:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: you can't do position specific without unbalancing the game
1371[2016-07-05 9:45:01 AM] Background Pony: 77 stats, but increased goalkeeping, defensive prowess and ball winning? No idea how big the buffs should be, though
1372[2016-07-05 9:45:06 AM] Myuer: [July 5, 2016 9:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: 
1373
1374<<< there's also the possibility of harlockYeah, with harlock we have the bunch of agleague and moeshit basically, but those 2 were completely on different stats compressions
1375[2016-07-05 9:45:44 AM] JohnnyBravo: I don't particularly like the idea of 90-85-80; seems very extreme
1376[2016-07-05 9:46:17 AM] Myuer: From the bit that I had to do, I kinda liked it, but I'd buffed slightly the golds
1377[2016-07-05 9:46:17 AM] JohnnyBravo: also I don't know about ball winning, that's already decent
1378[2016-07-05 9:47:51 AM] JohnnyBravo: what about 82 in def prow, ball winning, body balance, goalkeeping, catching, clearing, reflexes, coverage
1379[2016-07-05 9:48:06 AM] JohnnyBravo: the latter two seem promising as far as defensive positioning being a big issue
1380[2016-07-05 9:48:20 AM] JohnnyBravo: or even a more substantial buff like 85
1381[2016-07-05 9:49:05 AM] Background Pony: I dont know what stats apply to defenders, but at 81 stats these defenders are already super competent
1382[2016-07-05 9:49:31 AM] Background Pony: so 85 is going to make them ridiculous
1383[2016-07-05 9:49:40 AM] JohnnyBravo: seems reasonable
1384[2016-07-05 9:50:32 AM] Myuer: From what I saw even with all 80 in the stats they seemed competent enough
1385[2016-07-05 9:51:21 AM] Myuer: Stopped more the action from being created, sweeped more the ball etc
1386[2016-07-05 2:42:04 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 8:32 AM
1387> more volleys, etc. Still no headers/corner goals, though
1388Dude I had several of each running 99/90/80, Moeshit and AGL style.  What is happening to your pes
1389[2016-07-05 2:42:37 PM] HT☆Rock: The sexiest Moeshit goal I had was a cheeky Yoko back heel off of a corner
1390[2016-07-05 2:46:19 PM] Background Pony: Ive had a couple of header goals since, and some indirect goals from corners
1391[2016-07-05 2:47:23 PM] Background Pony: I'm working on compiling the stats right now
1392[2016-07-05 2:51:24 PM] HT☆Rock: With a greater body of knowledge, I'm kind of sold on one of three options: 99/88/80 Harlock, 95/90/80 Vanilla or AGL rules in either system
1393[2016-07-05 2:51:54 PM] HT☆Rock: Harlock creates more solid defense, but also gives golds more creativity
1394[2016-07-05 2:52:17 PM] Myuer: AGL rules with dropping form 8 on all players
1395[2016-07-05 2:52:42 PM] Myuer: and keeping it to the keepers
1396[2016-07-05 2:52:55 PM | Edited 2:53:26 PM] HT☆Rock: Slightly nerfing golds and slightly bumping silvers on vanilla brings things to reasonable-ish levels
1397[2016-07-05 2:54:06 PM] HT☆Rock: What Myuer says works too
1398[2016-07-05 2:54:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: would that involve harlock
1399[2016-07-05 2:54:31 PM] Myuer: Tbh HT, I'd drop form 8 on all players in any case.
1400[2016-07-05 2:54:34 PM] HT☆Rock: AGL rules could go either way tbdesu
1401[2016-07-05 2:54:37 PM] Myuer: And keep it only on keepers.
1402[2016-07-05 2:54:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: I agree about form
1403[2016-07-05 2:54:58 PM] HT☆Rock: I personally liked AGL rules on vanilla better in my preliminary tests
1404[2016-07-05 2:55:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm inclined to favor an official konami patch over a fan one
1405[2016-07-05 2:55:43 PM] Myuer: ^
1406[2016-07-05 2:55:44 PM] Duke Silver: Also agreed on Form - the "Form 8 on everyone" piece kind of makes it so that 165s and 170s are just genuinely NEVER EVER used
1407[2016-07-05 2:55:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: especially one with very little documentation
1408[2016-07-05 2:58:19 PM] Myuer: You can look into the codes and compare them, but you'd have to do a lot of guessing
1409[2016-07-05 3:02:17 PM] Background Pony: here's my data from the latest batch of tests:
1410[2016-07-05 3:02:18 PM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pRmAK/8d448b2f0c.png
1411[2016-07-05 3:02:33 PM] Background Pony: the amount of goals scored dropped by a lot. There were a lot of slurpy games.
1412[2016-07-05 3:02:42 PM] Duke Silver: >3.133 Wew
1413[2016-07-05 3:02:43 PM] Background Pony: Saves increased a lot too.
1414[2016-07-05 3:03:12 PM] Background Pony: Im not sure if its PES randomness, or whether the small increase made such a huge difference
1415[2016-07-05 3:04:35 PM] Duke Silver: Could be the teams as well - my first test cup using the top 8 Winter / top 8 Spring had 5.28 and I think around ~47% keeper efficiency, using the same rule set you listed on the first group of tests
1416[2016-07-05 3:04:42 PM] Background Pony: stylish goals returned, but with so few goals per game, it still felt underwhelming
1417[2016-07-05 3:04:48 PM] Duke Silver: So those teams with the same stats averaged a goal per game higher
1418[2016-07-05 3:06:44 PM] Background Pony: If I had to make a choice, I would personally go with vanilla 1.04. I'm not sure what people are going to do for summer, but I feel that if you start "nerfing" the game on account of super offensive teams, you are going to make the games that don't have these offensive teams in them incredibly shit to watch.
1419[2016-07-05 3:07:15 PM] Myuer: That's a good guessing, but I think that anyway people will try some super offensive tacts
1420[2016-07-05 3:07:38 PM] Myuer: But, in most part I agree with you
1421[2016-07-05 3:09:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: 99/88/(77 with defensive boosts)
1422[2016-07-05 3:09:16 PM] Background Pony: maybe look into a keeper buff, like upping goalkeeping etc to 81, but Im unsure how useful that will be with 77 defenders. There's a pretty big relationship between the two.
1423[2016-07-05 3:09:55 PM] Duke Silver: Which Defensive boosts were you looking at, and how far? Defensive Prowess, Body Balance, the (4?) GK ones?
1424[2016-07-05 3:09:59 PM] HT☆Rock: 77 defenders are booty
1425[2016-07-05 3:10:11 PM] HT☆Rock: Plain and simple
1426[2016-07-05 3:10:12 PM] Myuer: tbf we should just put 80 no medals to avoid some exports clusterfucks
1427[2016-07-05 3:10:25 PM] Background Pony: that's not what I was doing. I think someone else was going to test that.
1428[2016-07-05 3:11:21 PM] Background Pony: 77 defenders in 1.04 dont seem all that shit to me. They seemed competent in the FT2, and in the tests I did for that cup.
1429[2016-07-05 3:12:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: but 80/90/99 seemed outright worse than 80/90/95, no?
1430[2016-07-05 3:12:40 PM] Background Pony: I dont know what /m/, or /trv/, or other offensive teams do, but I think you have to be careful that you dont force everyone to play like them, simply because when you nerf everything it becomes the only viable way to play
1431[2016-07-05 3:13:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: if anything nerfs make teams like that worse
1432[2016-07-05 3:13:09 PM] Background Pony: I've no idea what happened in these tests. Maybe PES was just having one of those days.
1433[2016-07-05 3:13:28 PM] Background Pony: Otherwise buffing non-medals from 80 to 81 has a ridiculous effect
1434[2016-07-05 3:13:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's probably the differences in teams
1435[2016-07-05 3:13:51 PM] HT☆Rock: I did notice outside of the ass whoopings, scorelines were down slightly
1436[2016-07-05 3:14:00 PM] Background Pony: I ran all those tests with the same setting (http://puu.sh/pRmAK/8d448b2f0c.png)
1437[2016-07-05 3:14:10 PM] HT☆Rock: Seemed like a "pass the ball to Tucker" sort of thing
1438[2016-07-05 3:14:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: ah right, you meant comparing within yours
1439[2016-07-05 3:14:32 PM] Background Pony: ass whoopings will always happen, I think. Same with kickoff abuse.
1440[2016-07-05 3:14:36 PM] HT☆Rock: Combined with 1.04 Harlock generating more shots
1441[2016-07-05 3:14:37 PM] Background Pony: PES16 AI is just fucked
1442[2016-07-05 3:14:41 PM] HT☆Rock: Yeah
1443[2016-07-05 3:14:50 PM] Myuer: Well, we can't do much for that
1444[2016-07-05 3:14:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: kickoff abuse seemed down w/ 95 golds
1445[2016-07-05 3:15:05 PM] HT☆Rock: We just need to mitigate what we can and accept what we can't
1446[2016-07-05 3:15:12 PM] Myuer: Exactly
1447[2016-07-05 3:15:32 PM] Background Pony: it still happened for me. I didnt really keep track how often it happened, though. Probably less often than with 99 golds.
1448[2016-07-05 3:15:42 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 2:14 PM
1449> kickoff abuse seemed down w/ 95 golds
1450As you say this, my /ag/L team lit up durgen's team pretty much entirely on Kekoff goals
1451[2016-07-05 3:15:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: let's just use pes 2014 1.12 and call it a day
1452[2016-07-05 3:15:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: As you say this, my /ag/L team lit up durgen's team pretty much entirely on Kekoff goalson a different patch
1453[2016-07-05 3:15:56 PM] Background Pony: But the lack of style and variety in goals just isnt worth nerfing golds, I think.
1454[2016-07-05 3:15:58 PM] HT☆Rock: PES 15 when?
1455[2016-07-05 3:16:07 PM] Myuer: PES6 when.
1456[2016-07-05 3:16:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: pes 15 with mandatory fluid
1457[2016-07-05 3:16:41 PM] Myuer: Jokes aside, let's just cross fingers for PES17.
1458[2016-07-05 3:16:54 PM] HT☆Rock: Background Pony - Today 2:15 PM
1459> But the lack of style and variety in goals just isnt worth nerfing golds, I think.
1460I would really like to see you run a test cup using the teams JB set up instead of the horsefucker test teams
1461[2016-07-05 3:17:11 PM] HT☆Rock: And see if the lack of class is still there
1462[2016-07-05 3:17:25 PM] Background Pony: wouldnt it be easier to just ask JB?
1463[2016-07-05 3:17:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't think there's enough class with 99s to make that a worthwhile argument
1464[2016-07-05 3:17:42 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 2:12 PM
1465> but 80/90/99 seemed outright worse than 80/90/95, no?
1466On vanilla, yeah
1467[2016-07-05 3:18:06 PM] HT☆Rock: Harlock strikers are classy af
1468[2016-07-05 4:34:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 5, 2016 9:25 AM] JohnnyBravo: 
1469
1470<<< Perhaps defense-specific boosts to bronzes a la the old prowess method?I'd be hella up for that.  I also agree with BGP that 99 golds are pretty much essential.  96 at the lowest.
1471[2016-07-05 4:38:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: I think with defense specific buffs we need to be very careful, though, to prevent what we've been getting where attacks only come over the top because the attackers can't find any other possible attacking route.
1472I think ball winning is an obvious one, defensive prowess might be too OP if we're not careful, however.  Speed and jump we could try if we really want to maybe lower the throughballs a bit
1473[2016-07-05 4:58:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: http://pesstatsdatabase.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35306
1474[2016-07-05 4:58:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: so keeping is the last five stats
1475[2016-07-05 4:58:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: >Defensive Prowess:
1476The ability of defending by predicting the pattern of play.
1477[2016-07-05 4:58:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: this is probably the most important one
1478[2016-07-05 5:01:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: also some of these are more useful than others
1479[2016-07-05 5:01:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: for example I recall someone (bent?) testing body balance and finding it mostly useless
1480[2016-07-05 5:02:15 PM] HT☆Rock: In 14 we bumped Defensive Prowess to 88 for bronzes
1481[2016-07-05 5:02:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: that's the kind of change I'm thinking of really
1482[2016-07-05 5:02:32 PM] HT☆Rock: I was a part of that tester corps
1483[2016-07-05 5:02:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: and as you said it's not without precedent
1484[2016-07-05 5:03:28 PM | Edited 5:03:45 PM] HT☆Rock: carmastrikes - Today 3:34 PM
1485> I also agree with BGP that 99 golds are pretty much essential.  96 at the lowest.
1486I keep telling you this is meaningless or actively detrimental
1487[2016-07-05 5:04:13 PM] HT☆Rock: Unless we go Harlock and/or buff D.Prowess
1488[2016-07-05 5:04:31 PM] Background Pony: I might do another test run with 77/88/99, but 88 def prowess on bronze players
1489[2016-07-05 5:04:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: didn't you say 88 would be too extreme
1490[2016-07-05 5:04:47 PM] Background Pony: tomorrow
1491[2016-07-05 5:05:15 PM] Background Pony: I dont know how much def prowess affects the AI
1492[2016-07-05 5:05:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: you try that and I'll try boosting to 82 perhaps to see how it looks at different levels
1493[2016-07-05 5:05:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: also maybe do the same for keepers
1494[2016-07-05 5:05:58 PM] Background Pony: let me check how a 81 stat defender is globally rated vs a defender with 77 stats but 88 def prowess
1495[2016-07-05 5:07:20 PM] Background Pony: 81 stat defenders have a global rating of 84
1496[2016-07-05 5:07:31 PM] Background Pony: 80 stat = global rating of 82
1497[2016-07-05 5:08:03 PM | Edited 5:08:11 PM] Background Pony: 77 stat but 88 def prowess CB = 81 global rating
1498[2016-07-05 5:08:09 PM | Removed 5:08:18 PM] Background Pony: This message has been removed.
1499[2016-07-05 5:08:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: I think 88 even for specific stats would be too much
1500[2016-07-05 5:08:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: but I wonder how the dynamic of 77 in offensive stats works there
1501[2016-07-05 5:08:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: probably more long pass attempts when they get marked out close up
1502[2016-07-05 5:08:42 PM] HT☆Rock: 88 D.Prowess is like world class defense
1503[2016-07-05 5:09:22 PM | Edited 5:09:34 PM] Background Pony: give me a value for def prowess and I will run a series of tests tomorrow
1504[2016-07-05 5:09:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: hmm
1505[2016-07-05 5:09:56 PM] HT☆Rock: And the better the D, the harder it is for bronzes to thread through, which means more punt and pray I reckon
1506[2016-07-05 5:10:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah we want to avoid that
1507[2016-07-05 5:10:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: try 80?
1508[2016-07-05 5:10:31 PM] HT☆Rock: 80 or 85
1509[2016-07-05 5:10:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: I recall you saying you liked vanilla 1.04 77/88/99 so let's try the conservative boost first
1510[2016-07-05 5:10:49 PM] HT☆Rock: So 80
1511[2016-07-05 5:10:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
1512[2016-07-05 5:11:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'll run some on that too. Probably not a whole cup but 3 or 4 to get a feel for it.
1513[2016-07-05 5:12:53 PM] HT☆Rock: Basically the balancing act we have to pull here is individual medal skill vs. team defensive capabilities
1514[2016-07-05 5:13:11 PM] Background Pony: 77 stats + (75~77 def prowess) = 78 rating
1515[2016-07-05 5:14:09 PM] HT☆Rock: Because on one hand we have "muh golds", on the other we're here to mitigate 11 goal games standard, and on the third hand we don't want semen slurping
1516[2016-07-05 5:14:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm looking over the /ag/L page and wondering why there are such large score discrepancies. Some groups are great and others are (rofl) . Too early to make a final call on that setup I suppose.
1517[2016-07-05 5:14:23 PM] Background Pony: 77 stats + (78~81 def prowess) = 79 rating
1518[2016-07-05 5:14:48 PM] HT☆Rock: Group H is a bunch of meme loving fucks and >PAVAL
1519[2016-07-05 5:14:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know how much stock I'd put into in-game ratings
1520[2016-07-05 5:15:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: especially if we're thinking that stats don't scale linearly those groupings seem large
1521[2016-07-05 5:15:23 PM] Background Pony: basically the global rating goes up by 1 for every three/four points of def prowess
1522[2016-07-05 5:15:46 PM] Background Pony: jeah, it probably doesnt really mean anything
1523[2016-07-05 5:16:06 PM] Background Pony: like the team defense/midfield/offense ratings
1524[2016-07-05 5:16:41 PM] Background Pony: just a random value based on other stats that doesnt really do anything itself
1525[2016-07-05 5:17:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: almost certainly a weighted average of some sort
1526[2016-07-05 5:17:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: drawing from values relevant to the position based on how much konami thinks each stat matters for said position
1527[2016-07-05 5:18:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: so defprow increases could increase the ingame stat more for blue (backline) players more than midfielders but do the same exact thing on the pitch
1528[2016-07-05 5:20:13 PM] Background Pony: I will do some games with 88 def prowess as well, just so I can tell if it changes the AI by a lot
1529[2016-07-05 5:20:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: sounds good
1530[2016-07-05 6:52:18 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147367921/4ccg-hr-edition#p147560774
1531[2016-07-05 6:54:08 PM] HT☆Rock: >Our latest Harlock endeavors have been a failure
1532[2016-07-05 6:54:14 PM] HT☆Rock: Who's this faggot?
1533[2016-07-05 6:54:41 PM] King Lear: That would be the /r9k/ manager.
1534[2016-07-05 6:54:41 PM] Background Pony: that sounds like what we wanted to test with a defensive prowess buff, pretty much
1535[2016-07-05 6:55:19 PM] Background Pony: "Defenders are set to detect threats from literally everywhere and respond immediately."
1536[2016-07-05 6:56:21 PM] HT☆Rock: Hacking in defensive omnipresence and omniscience with what, five days to test?
1537[2016-07-05 6:56:30 PM] HT☆Rock: Surely nothing can go wrong (drunk)
1538[2016-07-05 7:01:58 PM] HT☆Rock: >it's in Japanese
1539[2016-07-05 7:02:01 PM] HT☆Rock: help
1540[2016-07-05 7:02:20 PM] HT☆Rock: But I can read Japanese, so I can try to figure out what the documentation says
1541[2016-07-05 7:12:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: So defensive prowess does exactly what I suspected it does.  Cool.  If the website Johnny linked is right, I might suggest an attacking prowess buff to be honest.  In particular the "fast reactions to loose balls" part interests me.  
1542One nerf for golds (or perhaps all players) we could look at is nerfing finishing.  If that really does only change the success ration, and not any actual AI decision-making, it might help with the ridiculous goals per game averages while not making the gameplay uglier.
1543[2016-07-05 7:13:32 PM] Background Pony: hmm, I dont think that sounds like a good idea
1544[2016-07-05 7:13:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: If you nerf finishing you should offset it somehow to prevent extremely low scorelines
1545[2016-07-05 7:13:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm not saying a big nerf
1546[2016-07-05 7:14:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: just down to 95, 85, and 75 or something
1547[2016-07-05 7:14:28 PM] Background Pony: 1.04 already nerfs strikers/finishing by a fair margin, IMO
1548[2016-07-05 7:14:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: It does yes
1549[2016-07-05 7:15:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: >tfw we need Goldtiger to save us
1550[2016-07-05 7:16:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: I do really like the idea of making our own patch though
1551[2016-07-05 7:16:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: Soryuu is a nip, and some of the /ag/ people speak moon
1552[2016-07-05 7:16:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh I forgot about that red button flip mokey
1553[2016-07-05 7:17:26 PM] Background Pony: I think a 4cc fanpatch is a good idea, but you need a ton of time to finetune it, as it sounds like it would be super easy to completely break the AI if you dont exactly know what youre doing
1554[2016-07-05 7:17:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
1555[2016-07-05 7:17:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: Certainly not an option for summer, yeah
1556[2016-07-05 7:17:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: but if we can get good, verified working translations then we can tear into it
1557[2016-07-05 7:18:06 PM] Background Pony: like, it would be something to work on the moment PES17 becomes available for cup purposes
1558[2016-07-05 7:18:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
1559[2016-07-05 7:18:51 PM] Background Pony: so you have several months to finetune it
1560[2016-07-05 7:18:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: I think we should shoot to have one for Autumn though
1561[2016-07-05 7:19:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: as a working proof of concept for PES17
1562[2016-07-05 7:19:46 PM] Background Pony: but still then, I think youre going to end up with the same problem we'll probably end up with here, and that's that we all kind of have a different view on what kind of games we want to see
1563[2016-07-05 7:20:27 PM] Background Pony: the best we can do is some kind of compromise
1564[2016-07-05 7:29:36 PM] King Lear: MarcoZ - Today at 7:29 PM
1565I made pes crash
1566
1567
1568Good sign, good sign.
1569[2016-07-05 7:29:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: ebin
1570[2016-07-05 7:49:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: lear you should do a fake announcement that we're doing 1.12
1571[2016-07-05 7:49:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: >fake
1572[2016-07-05 7:50:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: Lear you should announce that we are doing 1.12
1573[2016-07-05 7:50:00 PM] King Lear: >fake
1574[2016-07-05 7:50:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: ok I concur and so does feedback that's 3/9 good enough let's do it
1575[2016-07-05 7:50:26 PM] King Lear: You're right Carma. It isn't fair that the managers here get a headstart on Summer's rules.
1576[2016-07-05 7:50:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: I don't have PES installed right now
1577[2016-07-05 7:50:47 PM] Gannon Murphy: so it's not unfair
1578[2016-07-05 7:50:53 PM] Gannon Murphy: but it would be more fair to go to 1.12
1579[2016-07-05 7:51:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm stealing the /po/ magic box
1580[2016-07-05 7:51:19 PM | Edited 7:52:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm going to run a mirror trogdor
1581[2016-07-05 7:51:20 PM] King Lear: Well Carma I was referring to the fact that since we know we're on 1.12 sitting on it is rude.
1582[2016-07-05 7:51:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: oh right of course
1583[2016-07-05 7:51:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh right
1584[2016-07-05 7:51:36 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to run /pol/
1585[2016-07-05 7:51:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: >every team is gigantic S shapes
1586[2016-07-05 7:51:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm running sexcopter 3-6-1
1587[2016-07-05 7:51:55 PM] HT☆Rock: Windmills of love and tolerance
1588[2016-07-05 7:52:07 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm running the Kageyama lightning bolt
1589[2016-07-05 7:52:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm running the mcbox
1590[2016-07-05 7:53:10 PM] Background Pony: I'm running away as fast as I can
1591[2016-07-05 7:53:36 PM] HT☆Rock: And I ran
1592[2016-07-05 7:53:39 PM] HT☆Rock: I ran so far away
1593[2016-07-05 7:53:41 PM] HT☆Rock: I just ran
1594[2016-07-05 7:53:45 PM] HT☆Rock: I ran all night and day
1595[2016-07-05 7:53:48 PM] HT☆Rock: (couldn't get away)
1596[2016-07-05 7:54:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm taking ht's memeing as acceptance and smulel would say yes so that's a 5/9 majority for 1.12 glad we could come to such a clean decision with days to go good job everyone
1597[2016-07-05 7:54:25 PM] HT☆Rock: my memeing is not acceptance
1598[2016-07-05 7:54:29 PM] HT☆Rock: quite the opposite
1599[2016-07-05 7:54:32 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck 1.12
1600[2016-07-05 7:54:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: I ran all night and day
1601I ran from Harambe
1602Who couldn't get away
1603[2016-07-05 7:54:40 PM] HT☆Rock: It's literally why I'm an alcoholic now
1604[2016-07-05 7:54:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: you've literally never conceded on that patch though
1605[2016-07-05 7:54:53 PM] HT☆Rock: PTSD from Group /b/an/e/
1606[2016-07-05 7:55:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: sou straight up told me he rolled d20s for the final game and won 2-0 to go through
1607[2016-07-05 7:55:26 PM] HT☆Rock: which is why I drink
1608[2016-07-05 7:56:46 PM] King Lear: fuck 1.12Since I have decided you are tsundere I am taking this as a vote in favour.
1609[2016-07-05 7:56:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
1610[2016-07-05 7:57:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: (clap)
1611[2016-07-05 7:57:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: (mm)
1612[2016-07-05 7:57:44 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 5, 2016 7:56 PM] King Lear: 
1613
1614<<< Since I have decided you are tsundere I am taking this as a vote in favour.*bites thumb*
1615[2016-07-05 7:57:56 PM] HT☆Rock: no but seriously, I don't want to go to 1.12
1616[2016-07-05 7:58:10 PM] King Lear: So in favour:
1617Me
1618Carma
1619JB
1620HT
1621Feedback
1622Smugleaf
1623Tim
1624
1625Against:
1626Literally no-one
1627
1628Abstaining:
1629BGP
1630[2016-07-05 7:58:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 5, 2016 7:57 PM] HT☆Rock: 
1631
1632<<< no but seriously, I[July 5, 2016 7:57 PM] HT☆Rock: 
1633
1634<<< want to go to 1.12
1635[2016-07-05 7:58:17 PM] HT☆Rock: I abstain
1636[2016-07-05 7:58:20 PM] HT☆Rock: I ABSTAIN
1637[2016-07-05 7:58:38 PM] Smugleaf: 1.12 on PES16?
1638[2016-07-05 7:58:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
1639[July 5, 2016 7:58 PM] HT☆Rock: 
1640
1641<<< I ABSTAIN...from not wanting to go to 1.12
1642[2016-07-05 7:58:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: on pes 14, smulel
1643[2016-07-05 7:58:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: you're just in time for the big decision
1644[2016-07-05 7:58:52 PM] Smugleaf: Now see
1645[2016-07-05 7:58:57 PM] Smugleaf: This is exactly why I'm here
1646[2016-07-05 7:59:05 PM] Smugleaf: I'm just the aesthetics council rep
1647[2016-07-05 7:59:12 PM] Smugleaf: And my duty is to say
1648[2016-07-05 7:59:17 PM] Smugleaf: fukyou
1649[2016-07-05 7:59:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: and 1.12 had great aesthetics just look at all those old anime faces weren't those great
1650[2016-07-05 7:59:29 PM] Smugleaf: We're not going back off PES16
1651[2016-07-05 7:59:30 PM] Smugleaf: :P
1652[2016-07-05 7:59:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: then we need a fan patch to make 1.12 happen in PES16
1653[2016-07-05 7:59:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: there is
1654[2016-07-05 7:59:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's called yair
1655[2016-07-05 7:59:57 PM] Smugleaf: yairanaika
1656[2016-07-05 8:00:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: gold defender confirmed
1657[2016-07-05 8:00:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: why haven't we made the change then
1658[2016-07-05 8:00:18 PM] HT☆Rock: TRIGGERED
1659[2016-07-05 8:00:21 PM] HT☆Rock: I'M TRIGGERED
1660[2016-07-05 8:00:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: vanilla yairpatch plus 88 def prow how perfect
1661[2016-07-05 8:00:25 PM] Background Pony: tuck me in, let me die
1662[2016-07-05 8:00:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: this sounds glorious
1663[2016-07-05 8:00:52 PM] Feedback: if the cup's gonna die, you might as well go out screaming
1664[2016-07-05 8:01:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: you may as well go out memeing
1665[2016-07-05 8:01:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: >screaming
1666[2016-07-05 8:01:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: you mean slurping
1667[2016-07-05 8:01:23 PM] Smugleaf: scremeing
1668[2016-07-05 8:01:32 PM] Smugleaf: It's like screaming and memeing combined
1669[2016-07-05 8:01:34 PM | Edited 8:01:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
1670[2016-07-05 8:01:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: when the meme so supreme you let out a scream
1671[2016-07-05 8:01:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
1672[2016-07-05 8:02:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: smulel honestly you could just reinstall all those lod's and we go to 15 hahaha right
1673[2016-07-05 8:02:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: r-right?
1674[2016-07-05 8:08:52 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147367921/4ccg-hr-edition#p147568370
1675[2016-07-05 8:09:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: (chuckle)
1676[2016-07-05 8:09:46 PM] HT☆Rock: you cheeky sonuvabitch
1677[2016-07-05 8:10:08 PM | Edited 8:10:23 PM] King Lear: I think the write-up is convincing enough.
1678[2016-07-05 8:10:35 PM] Smugleaf: [July 5, 2016 8:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1679
1680<<< smulel honestly you could just reinstall all those lod's and we go to 15 hahaha rightmemes aside, LODs need to be hand made and are separate from the usual model
1681[2016-07-05 8:10:44 PM] Smugleaf: So every model in the cup would be broken
1682[2016-07-05 8:10:45 PM] Smugleaf: So no
1683[2016-07-05 8:11:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: >lists 11 votes
1684>10 people in here
1685[2016-07-05 8:11:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: aw sonovabitch torres got a vote
1686[2016-07-05 8:11:51 PM] King Lear: I counted Tim as a vote in favour.
1687[2016-07-05 8:12:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: oh right of course how could I forget
1688[2016-07-05 8:12:14 PM] King Lear: I mean we are searching for his gold.
1689[2016-07-05 8:12:21 PM] King Lear: I took this as a sign we found it.
1690[2016-07-05 8:12:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: >/mu/ won gold on 1.12
1691>the search for 1.12
1692!!
1693[2016-07-05 8:13:21 PM] King Lear: How deep does the rabbit hole go?
1694[2016-07-05 8:14:30 PM] Smugleaf: I've had enough of this, I'm telling the real rules council that you guys are trying to ruin the cup with 1.12
1695[2016-07-05 8:14:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: >the real rules council
1696[2016-07-05 8:14:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: come fight me in the dark
1697[2016-07-05 8:15:24 PM] Smugleaf: [July 5, 2016 8:14 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1698
1699<<< >the real rules councilYeah it's the /mlp/ one
1700[2016-07-05 8:15:29 PM] Smugleaf: We run this shit :^]
1701[2016-07-05 8:15:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: >not even using the horse smiley
1702[2016-07-05 8:15:52 PM | Edited 8:15:54 PM] King Lear: Oh I assumed you meant you were going to PM Durgen.
1703[2016-07-05 8:16:15 PM] Smugleaf: >implying Dr"Rainbow"BorisG isn't still the commish
1704[2016-07-05 8:17:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: >open /f/ to alter def prow to test 
1705>multiple medals have fucked prowess
1706[2016-07-05 8:20:18 PM] HT☆Rock: /f/ is one of two or three teams that remembers we can actually fuck with prowesses
1707[2016-07-05 8:20:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah but lowering it has no benefit, you just rig yourself
1708[2016-07-05 8:21:15 PM] HT☆Rock: something something lowering defensive prowess on gold strikers makes them stay up something
1709[2016-07-05 8:21:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: another thing: in NGE when you alter a stat there's a second column of stats that get altered based on your changes. Upping def prow only ups the "covering" combined ability http://puu.sh/pRGsB/6b58811490.png
1710[2016-07-05 8:21:34 PM] HT☆Rock: do not doubt the drug-influenced brilliance of sou
1711[2016-07-05 8:21:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: actually no not only that
1712[2016-07-05 8:21:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: it affects intercepting as well
1713[2016-07-05 8:21:59 PM] Smugleaf: RigIt has a function that set all stats at 77/88/99
1714[2016-07-05 8:22:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: but +4 defprow -> +1 intercepting, +3 covering
1715[2016-07-05 8:22:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: just something I'm noticing
1716[2016-07-05 8:22:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: something something lowering defensive prowess on gold strikers makes them stay up somethingthis was thought at one point but I thought people figured out that it's just their abilities and not their tendencies
1717[2016-07-05 8:25:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 5, 2016 8:22 PM] Smugleaf: 
1718
1719<<< RigIt has a function that set all stats at 77/88/99Yeah but it leaves the prowesses because you're allowed to leave  those lower
1720[2016-07-05 8:26:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: >using the editor that nerfs your team if it's not /mlp/
1721t. paranoia
1722[2016-07-05 8:26:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 5, 2016 8:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1723
1724<<< but +4 defprow -> +1 intercepting, +3 coveringSo what do we do to improve intercepting?  That's the one that's more appealing to improve, right?
1725[2016-07-05 8:26:45 PM] King Lear: Is that the most recent version you're using? I brought that up to Bent and he said he'd change it. Might not have gotten around to it though.
1726[2016-07-05 8:27:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: ohI haven't installed a new rigit since 0.3 or whatever
1727[2016-07-05 8:27:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: intercepting is more greatly affected by the "ball winning" stat than the def prow stat
1728[2016-07-05 8:27:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: hmm
1729[2016-07-05 8:27:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: but ball winning sucks, doesn't it?
1730[2016-07-05 8:28:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: it has the 4/3 ratio of defprow to covering
1731[2016-07-05 8:28:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't even know if these combined abilities actually mean anything in-game
1732[2016-07-05 8:28:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
1733[2016-07-05 8:28:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: at worst though they're more insight into what stats change though
1734[2016-07-05 8:30:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: so if def prow increases don't have the extent of an effect we'd like, ball winning would likely be the next stat to consider
1735[2016-07-05 8:30:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah.
1736[2016-07-05 8:31:16 PM] Gannon Murphy: speed and explosiveness might help but they'd also improve offensive ability so
1737[2016-07-05 8:31:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: playing around with different numbers confirms that it's a bell curve stat scale
1738changing stats has a greater effect in the high 70s
1739[2016-07-05 8:31:57 PM] Collie Bro: shit I forgot I was part of this
1740[2016-07-05 8:32:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: so we should try like 80 def prow/ball winning?
1741[2016-07-05 8:32:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: 80 or 81 was what we were discussing, yeah
1742[2016-07-05 8:32:40 PM] King Lear: It's okay Collie we love you even though you voted against the new rules change.
1743[2016-07-05 8:33:10 PM] Collie Bro: So... when I see "you are loved"... anon is telling the truth??
1744[2016-07-05 8:33:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
1745[2016-07-05 8:33:34 PM] Collie Bro: Also yeah I'm totally fine with PES14 1.12, as long as that pastebin wasn't a total ruse
1746[2016-07-05 8:33:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: these seem to be averaged too
1747[2016-07-05 8:34:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: Smugleaf is insisting on PES15 still
1748[2016-07-05 8:34:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: if you put def prow to 99 but leave everything else at 77 you'll get 84 and 94 in the affected stats
1749[2016-07-05 8:34:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: for some reason
1750[2016-07-05 8:34:10 PM] King Lear: Another vote in favour.
1751[2016-07-05 8:34:19 PM] Collie Bro: tbh I really want to go back to PES15 and would vote for that
1752[2016-07-05 8:34:30 PM] Collie Bro: but I understand wanting to keep things fresh
1753[2016-07-05 8:35:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: from what I understand
1754[2016-07-05 8:35:02 PM] Collie Bro: I just wish I could've been in an elite PES15 cup so I could win it :^ )
1755[2016-07-05 8:35:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we kill smulel
1756[2016-07-05 8:35:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: we can go back to pes 15
1757[2016-07-05 8:35:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: >Uncucking Tony
1758[2016-07-05 8:35:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: are you sure about that
1759[2016-07-05 8:35:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: no like actually murder him and make someone willing to do the bitchwork of lod's again aesco head
1760[2016-07-05 8:39:22 PM] HT☆Rock: Make Tenko do it
1761[2016-07-05 8:39:29 PM] HT☆Rock: so he doesn't eat a bullet or rape a child or something
1762[2016-07-05 8:41:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: by elimination (setting various things to 99 until the combined ability is 99):
1763-affects "Intercepting": explosive power, defprow, ball winning
1764-affects "Covering": speed, defprow
1765[2016-07-05 8:41:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: and then there's several stats for speed and strength, particularly in the air
1766[2016-07-05 8:42:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean if we want to reduce overhead throughball mania
1767[2016-07-05 8:42:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: we could try explosive power
1768[2016-07-05 8:42:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: explosive power has a very low multiplier but affects many stats
1769[2016-07-05 8:43:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'd rather not touch it before other things
1770[2016-07-05 8:43:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah.  I'm just thinking as a way to help them get out in front of the strikers after they mounumentallly fuck up an offside trap
1771[2016-07-05 8:43:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pRHDx/f7756de589.png
1772[2016-07-05 8:43:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: here's the effect of 99 exp power and 77 everything else
1773[2016-07-05 8:48:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: wew
1774[2016-07-05 8:48:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: >improves penalties
1775[2016-07-05 8:48:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: what the fuck
1776[2016-07-05 8:48:57 PM | Edited 8:48:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
1777[2016-07-05 8:49:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: runs in place
1778[2016-07-05 8:49:30 PM] Collie Bro: We need to mod in the Zaza penalty
1779[2016-07-05 8:49:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh god
1780[2016-07-05 8:49:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: yes
1781[2016-07-05 8:49:43 PM | Edited 8:49:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: lmao
1782[2016-07-05 9:12:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: >first game on 81 defprow is 2-1 and features a backheel and a bicycle kicked corner volley
1783[2016-07-05 9:12:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: all of my (mm)
1784[2016-07-05 9:13:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: ebin
1785[2016-07-05 9:13:37 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 8:12 PM
1786> >first game on 81 defprow is 2-1 and features a backheel and a bicycle kicked corner volley
1787What medal statline?
1788[2016-07-05 9:14:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: 99/88
1789[2016-07-05 9:14:45 PM] HT☆Rock: Ah
1790[2016-07-05 9:15:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: certainly keep 99s if we're doing a specific boost imo
1791[2016-07-05 9:15:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: if it stays like that, I'll happily throw my hat in behind it
1792[2016-07-05 9:25:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: carma what did you do to bateman to make him a setpiece wizard
1793[2016-07-05 9:25:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: what
1794[2016-07-05 9:26:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: he's scored off direct and indirect freekicks in this game
1795[2016-07-05 9:26:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah he does that
1796[2016-07-05 9:26:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: beautiful stuff
1797[2016-07-05 9:26:32 PM | Edited 9:26:35 PM] Gannon Murphy: no idea how though
1798[2016-07-05 9:26:42 PM] HT☆Rock: Meme magic
1799[2016-07-05 9:29:10 PM] HT☆Rock: Isn't Bateman height abuse?
1800[2016-07-05 9:29:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah
1801[2016-07-05 9:29:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: he was in 15
1802[2016-07-05 9:31:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pRK9n/dc217ca35c.jpg
1803[2016-07-05 9:31:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: n e v e r   e v e r
1804[2016-07-05 9:31:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: goddamnit
1805[2016-07-05 9:49:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: lads
1806[2016-07-05 9:49:18 PM] Gannon Murphy: why are we going to 1.12 when we could go to PES13 and get rid of height rules
1807[2016-07-05 9:50:35 PM] Feedback: why not both
1808[2016-07-05 9:50:42 PM] Feedback: group stages, PES13 w/o heights
1809[2016-07-05 9:50:46 PM] Feedback: knockouts, PES14 1.12
1810[2016-07-05 9:52:03 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 5, 2016 9:31 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1811
1812<<< n e v e r   e v e rlaughinggoldenman.png
1813[2016-07-06 6:38:38 AM] Myuer: [July 5, 2016 7:01 PM] HT☆Rock: 
1814
1815<<< >it's in JapaneseThe vanilla code too is in japanese.
1816[2016-07-06 6:39:05 AM] Myuer: I'd avoid buffing some abilities only for one motive, exports clusterfucks
1817[2016-07-06 6:43:49 AM] Myuer: I'd be totally up for 80-90-95, seems the most reasonable choice
1818[2016-07-06 6:46:14 AM] Myuer: We should reserve the fanpatch option if PES17 will have denuvo.
1819[2016-07-06 6:48:21 AM] Background Pony: I disagree. 80/90/95 isn't very fun to watch.
1820[2016-07-06 9:44:41 AM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pSgM4/de2afac0f9.txt here's what I did last night
1821[2016-07-06 9:45:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: 80/90/95 isn't very fun to watchtrue, imo it sacrifices too much gameplay to get its' results
1822[2016-07-06 9:46:37 AM] JohnnyBravo: I really like the def prowess bump games I watched
1823[2016-07-06 9:47:06 AM] Duke Silver: Some of those games (The s4s-f one especially) look like defenders did a good job of getting in front of shots
1824[2016-07-06 9:47:18 AM] JohnnyBravo: 99/88/77 on 1.04 was already the most entertaining option, and the def prowess bumps seemed to improve defense without making everything murderball and keeping scorelines reasonable but fun
1825[2016-07-06 9:47:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: yeah you could definitely see the increased coverage
1826[2016-07-06 9:47:47 AM] JohnnyBravo: I wouldn't touch keepers on this as they seemed about right. I got a 7 save game.
1827[2016-07-06 9:48:06 AM] Duke Silver: Were keepers still Form 4 on this?
1828[2016-07-06 9:48:23 AM] JohnnyBravo: defenders are much better at blocking, closing down in the final third, and forcing weaker shots
1829[2016-07-06 9:48:27 AM | Edited 9:48:26 AM] JohnnyBravo: I believe these keepers were form 4
1830[2016-07-06 9:49:06 AM] JohnnyBravo: just checked and they were
1831[2016-07-06 9:49:48 AM] Duke Silver: So just to confirm (Sorry, brain not working right this morning) There's NO other stat compression here? Just the defensive prowess bumps?
1832[2016-07-06 9:50:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: pass completion was better than in the other games I watched (namely compared to 80/90/95)
1833[2016-07-06 9:50:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: yes
1834[2016-07-06 9:50:17 AM] JohnnyBravo: this is standard ruleset with defprow 81
1835[2016-07-06 9:50:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: that's why I used 4 new teams to save time lel
1836[2016-07-06 9:51:16 AM] JohnnyBravo: the lob attempts when there aren't any other options still exist, but they aren't as common and are cut out far more often. Defenders also got seemingly better at playing offsides
1837[2016-07-06 9:52:40 AM] Duke Silver: And this would only affect bronze players, no bump to defensive prowess on silvers?
1838[2016-07-06 9:53:12 AM] JohnnyBravo: correct
1839[2016-07-06 9:53:16 AM] JohnnyBravo: didn't touch medals
1840[2016-07-06 10:29:54 AM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 9:44 AM] JohnnyBravo: 
1841
1842<<< https://puu.sh/pSgM4/de2afac0f9.txt here's what I did last nightseems good
1843[2016-07-06 10:32:58 AM] Myuer: but let me get this straight, you put that ability on all no medals or only defenders?
1844[2016-07-06 10:33:08 AM] JohnnyBravo: all nonmedals
1845[2016-07-06 10:33:20 AM] Duke Silver: I think we were pretty against position-specific buffs
1846[2016-07-06 10:33:26 AM] Myuer: so everyone had 81 in def and 80 in covering
1847[2016-07-06 10:33:30 AM] JohnnyBravo: so /gd/ had it on >>>/r/ for instance
1848[2016-07-06 10:33:33 AM] Myuer: since if you buff that, it buffs covering too
1849[2016-07-06 10:33:41 AM] JohnnyBravo: 81 in defprow makes covering go up, yes
1850[2016-07-06 10:34:30 AM] Myuer: buffs a little too interception if I remember correctly
1851[2016-07-06 10:34:49 AM] JohnnyBravo: [July 5, 2016 8:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
1852
1853<<< +4 defprow -> +1 intercepting, +3 covering
1854[2016-07-06 10:35:30 AM] Myuer: so for having 80 in interception you need like 85 in defensive prowess
1855[2016-07-06 10:36:42 AM] JohnnyBravo: sure, but these boosts felt plenty sufficient. 85 defprow probably gets too slurpy.
1856[2016-07-06 10:37:21 AM] JohnnyBravo: defprow has a very low multiplier as far as impacting intercepting
1857[2016-07-06 10:37:29 AM] JohnnyBravo: speed and ball winning have greater effects
1858[2016-07-06 10:38:22 AM] Myuer: well if you want I can run some testings
1859[2016-07-06 10:38:52 AM] JohnnyBravo: can you try 80 in both defprow and ball winning
1860I want to see if ball winning boosts make it too much murderball
1861[2016-07-06 10:39:00 AM] Myuer: k
1862[2016-07-06 10:39:27 AM] Myuer: I see which teams to pick up
1863[2016-07-06 10:39:50 AM] JohnnyBravo: because I feel 77 is a nicely comfortable tackling level, but I just want to see 80
1864[2016-07-06 10:40:07 AM] Myuer: how many matches and how many teams?
1865[2016-07-06 10:40:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: 1.04 fixed a lot of the tackling spaghetti 1.03 had
1866[2016-07-06 10:40:12 AM] JohnnyBravo: you decide
1867[2016-07-06 10:40:44 AM] Myuer: I see if I recover winter /u/ somewhere and take other teams from winter and spring
1868[2016-07-06 10:41:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: why remake (assuming you've made new tictacs) /u/ when you could just grab /v/ (^:
1869[2016-07-06 10:41:24 AM] Myuer: Yeah, I could take /v/ infact
1870[2016-07-06 10:42:03 AM] Myuer: 81 in both abilites?
1871[2016-07-06 10:42:10 AM] JohnnyBravo: 80
1872[2016-07-06 10:42:33 AM] Myuer: k
1873[2016-07-06 11:30:22 AM] Myuer: /out/, /r9k/ and /v/ taken. I miss only one team to decide
1874[2016-07-06 11:31:07 AM] Myuer: I'll take /s/
1875[2016-07-06 11:33:47 AM] Myuer: do I put form 8 for keepers too
1876[2016-07-06 11:33:49 AM] Myuer: or leave it to 4?
1877[2016-07-06 11:34:23 AM] JohnnyBravo: may as well do 4 for consistency. mono-orange conditions so it doesn't matter much though
1878[2016-07-06 11:34:28 AM] Myuer: k
1879[2016-07-06 12:07:13 PM] Myuer: first game on, first impression is that the 77 players are def more on spot
1880[2016-07-06 12:07:33 PM] Myuer: not even slurpy match
1881[2016-07-06 12:18:01 PM] Myuer: http://puu.sh/pSonS/c80942c56b.jpg wew
1882[2016-07-06 12:18:38 PM] Duke Silver: Five shots on target, six saves, no goals. wew.
1883[2016-07-06 12:20:05 PM] Myuer: throughballs still happens, but defense and gk are a bit more on spot
1884[2016-07-06 12:20:41 PM] Myuer: that game was very fun to watch tbh
1885[2016-07-06 12:21:06 PM] Gannon Murphy: I like where we're going with this
1886[2016-07-06 12:21:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: single-stat boosts sound much more entertaining to me
1887[2016-07-06 12:27:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah, because I do like the play on 77/88/99
1888[2016-07-06 12:27:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: me too
1889[2016-07-06 12:27:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we can make it a bit better at defense while keeping that base idea that would be ideal
1890[2016-07-06 12:27:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's just a little exaggerated in places
1891[2016-07-06 12:29:31 PM] Myuer: but 2many goals 2 matches in and 11 goals in total
1892[2016-07-06 12:34:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: on what you're testing?
1893[2016-07-06 12:34:37 PM] Myuer: 77(with 80 in def prow and winning ball)/88/99
1894[2016-07-06 12:35:03 PM | Edited 12:35:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah, you're saying those settings are scoring a lot?
1895[2016-07-06 12:35:04 PM] Myuer: doing 3rd match now, almost done
1896[2016-07-06 12:35:10 PM] Myuer: /r9k/ v /out/
1897http://puu.sh/pSonS/c80942c56b.jpg 
18985-0
18999(8) - 7(5) 
19006 saves - 3 saves
190178% - 82%
1902
1903/v/ v /s/
1904http://puu.sh/pSpbG/5c7a1cf477.jpg 
19054-2
19065(4) - 8(4)
19073 saves - 0 saves
190889% - 85%
1909[2016-07-06 12:35:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: ball winning also affects physical strength
1910[2016-07-06 12:35:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: those don't look -bad-, just a little high scoring
1911[2016-07-06 12:35:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: >(8)
1912[2016-07-06 12:35:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: goddamnit skype
1913[2016-07-06 12:35:52 PM] Myuer: it's 8 carma
1914[2016-07-06 12:35:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: I know
1915[2016-07-06 12:36:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: I know it's a small sample but I had 4 or less in every game but 1 on 81 defprow
1916[2016-07-06 12:36:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: maybe not touch ball winning then
1917[2016-07-06 12:36:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: not like tackling was the issue, it was always more about positioning
1918[2016-07-06 12:37:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
1919[2016-07-06 12:39:39 PM] Myuer: well a lot of throughballs are stopped
1920[2016-07-06 12:40:33 PM] Myuer: Also every game was very fun to watch
1921[2016-07-06 1:08:45 PM] Myuer: done
1922[2016-07-06 1:08:53 PM] Myuer: http://puu.sh/pSrmD/dd203030c9.txt
1923[2016-07-06 1:09:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: I miss the days of 90% pass completion
1924[2016-07-06 1:09:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: I had 90% a few times on my settings
1925[2016-07-06 1:09:42 PM] Myuer: 5,75 saves per match
1926[2016-07-06 1:09:45 PM] Myuer: I mean
1927[2016-07-06 1:09:46 PM] Myuer: in average*
1928[2016-07-06 1:09:48 PM | Edited 1:09:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: you just have to work for it
1929[2016-07-06 1:10:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: so looking at this my inclination is to leave ball winning alone if we can
1930[2016-07-06 1:10:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: and to try like 83 defprow maybe so we can compare to 81
1931[2016-07-06 1:10:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: yaeh me too tbh
1932[2016-07-06 1:10:56 PM] Myuer: 83 def prow and 77 winning ball?
1933[2016-07-06 1:11:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: ye
1934[2016-07-06 1:11:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: same teams for comparison I suppose
1935[2016-07-06 1:12:32 PM] Myuer: k I'm going to modify that
1936[2016-07-06 1:13:16 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /out/ really sucked in that lel
1937[2016-07-06 1:13:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: did you have them on preset 2?
1938[2016-07-06 1:13:20 PM] Myuer: yeah
1939[2016-07-06 1:13:24 PM] Myuer: yup
1940[2016-07-06 1:13:36 PM] Myuer: /s/
1941c/s/c/m/5/medium
1942f/m/a/4/7/medium
1943
1944/r9k/
1945Preset 1 fluid on
1946C, S, C, Maintain, 3, Many 
1947Flp, mid, agg, 3, 7, medium
1948
1949/out/
1950Preset 2
1951Counter - Short - Centre - Maintain - 3 - Medium
1952FLP - Middle - Aggressive - 3 - 9 - Many
1953
1954/v/
1955Counter - Short - Centre - Maintain - 7 - Medium
1956FLP - Middle - Aggressive - 2 - 9 - Many
1957[2016-07-06 1:13:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: huh
1958[2016-07-06 1:16:12 PM] Myuer: did I do something wrong?
1959[2016-07-06 1:17:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: No
1960[2016-07-06 1:17:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: You forgot the /out/ meme magic I guess (^:
1961[2016-07-06 1:23:44 PM] Myuer: ok put 83
1962[2016-07-06 1:23:56 PM] Myuer: Those will come a bit later, sadly I have other stuff to do as well
1963[2016-07-06 1:25:04 PM] Myuer: Hope it won't be a problem
1964[2016-07-06 3:14:15 PM] Myuer: ok resuming now
1965[2016-07-06 3:23:04 PM] Myuer: I love how with 83 there is a lot of fight for the ball.
1966[2016-07-06 3:23:18 PM] Myuer: Defenders are more able to steal the ball from golds
1967[2016-07-06 3:46:29 PM] Myuer: le12goalmatchhasarrived http://puu.sh/pSBor/5b1ba1cc74.jpg
1968[2016-07-06 3:47:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: lol /out/
1969[2016-07-06 3:49:21 PM] Collie Bro: I think part of the problem is literally every shot is on target most games
1970[2016-07-06 3:49:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't have that myself
1971[2016-07-06 3:50:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: that said we could look into lowering finishing
1972[2016-07-06 3:50:12 PM] Collie Bro: ^
1973[2016-07-06 3:50:20 PM] Myuer: well running last match
1974[2016-07-06 3:50:24 PM] Myuer: aside from that 4-8
1975[2016-07-06 3:50:36 PM] Myuer: The other 2 were a bit resonable
1976[2016-07-06 3:50:41 PM] Myuer: /r9k/ v /out/
1977http://puu.sh/pStFg/5bc868f802.jpg
19783-2
197911(7) - 6(5)
198082% - 74%
19814 saves - 2 saves
1982
1983/v/ v /s/
1984http://puu.sh/pSAn5/35f33569c3.jpg
19851-3
19865(4) - 9(7)
198777% - 83%
19884 saves - 3 saves
1989[2016-07-06 3:51:16 PM] Background Pony: Loadsegoals games are going to happen regardless. Trying to compensate against that will just make regular matches shit.
1990[2016-07-06 3:51:39 PM] Background Pony: that's been the general trend I've noticed the past week or so
1991[2016-07-06 3:51:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: there are quite a few saves in this even with a good proportion of shots being on target
1992[2016-07-06 3:52:08 PM] Myuer: for now out of 3 matches
1993[2016-07-06 3:52:11 PM] Myuer: I have 20 saves in total
1994[2016-07-06 3:52:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: bgp have you ran any games with boosted defprow yet
1995[2016-07-06 3:52:47 PM] Background Pony: no, I havent yet. I had no time today and I like to do all the games in one sitting.
1996[2016-07-06 3:52:59 PM] Myuer: also def prow with 83, makes no medal more on spot
1997[2016-07-06 3:53:01 PM] Background Pony: what values did you want me to test again?
1998[2016-07-06 3:53:07 PM] Myuer: I saw gold lose the ball more from golds
1999[2016-07-06 3:53:12 PM] Myuer: through balls being stopped
2000[2016-07-06 3:53:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: also keep in mind that a) games with both managers testing are often lower scoring b) boris' pc for whatever reason seems different
2001[2016-07-06 3:53:28 PM] Myuer: and more fight for the ball
2002[2016-07-06 3:53:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhhh bgp try anywhere from 80 to 85 that you think would work
2003[2016-07-06 3:53:41 PM] Myuer: I'd try 85 tbh
2004[2016-07-06 3:53:47 PM] Myuer: or 84 at least
2005[2016-07-06 3:53:58 PM] Background Pony: I think that when people test lots, they try to play safe, which means more defense/less goals.
2006[2016-07-06 3:54:14 PM] Background Pony: only def prowess?
2007[2016-07-06 3:54:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah unless you can think of another stat to try
2008[2016-07-06 3:54:28 PM] Myuer: on the side of the matches, I'd say that all the match were fun to watch
2009[2016-07-06 3:54:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't really feel like boosting ball winning would do a whole lot toward what we're looking for
2010[2016-07-06 3:54:58 PM] Myuer: Def prow is definitely working
2011[2016-07-06 3:55:02 PM] Myuer: but still golds manage a way to escape
2012[2016-07-06 3:55:06 PM] Background Pony: that's good news
2013[2016-07-06 3:55:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: that's good
2014[2016-07-06 3:55:19 PM] Background Pony: golds will always find a way to escape. That's why they're golds.
2015[2016-07-06 3:55:20 PM] Myuer: I mean, they are able to steal the ball from golds now
2016[2016-07-06 3:55:26 PM] Myuer: but golds still finds a way
2017[2016-07-06 3:55:31 PM] Myuer: find*
2018[2016-07-06 3:56:00 PM] Myuer: They are more reactive, throughballs still happen mind this, but most of the time they are stopped
2019[2016-07-06 3:56:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: try 85 defprow / 80 ballwinning maybe or is that too extreme
2020[2016-07-06 3:56:18 PM] Myuer: if throughballs win it's because gold find the way
2021[2016-07-06 3:56:59 PM] Myuer: I think my pes decided to do high scoring matches welp
2022[2016-07-06 3:57:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: could be the teams I suppose
2023[2016-07-06 3:57:25 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /out/ are a sieve oftentimes and /r9k/ are very offensive
2024[2016-07-06 3:57:30 PM] Myuer: r9k v s for now it's 4-3 ht
2025[2016-07-06 4:07:01 PM] Myuer: http://puu.sh/pSCOu/4b58882c7f.txt wewlad that average goals
2026[2016-07-06 4:15:47 PM] Myuer: well, the fact is we have little time to figure out what to do
2027[2016-07-06 4:19:41 PM] Myuer: last matches were wewlad with those teams
2028[2016-07-06 6:16:11 PM | Edited 6:20:25 PM] HT☆Rock: So D.Prowess doesn't seem to actually stop scorelines being run up like a dirty whore, which is the only reason we're actually here
2029[2016-07-06 6:16:21 PM] HT☆Rock: while still 77s
2030[2016-07-06 6:18:03 PM] HT☆Rock: unless a team goes full keeperbabby
2031[2016-07-06 6:18:54 PM] HT☆Rock: It's also clear that high scoring games are considered more exciting
2032[2016-07-06 6:22:19 PM] HT☆Rock: Because JB's sample size last night, compared to just vanilla settings, seem to have done jack and shit
2033[2016-07-06 6:22:46 PM] HT☆Rock: And if that's considered good and exciting, why the fuck did we even bother testing anything?
2034[2016-07-06 6:22:53 PM] Collie Bro: You seem to spend a lot of time thinking of JB's sample size
2035[2016-07-06 6:23:02 PM] HT☆Rock: I like thinking of sizes
2036[2016-07-06 6:23:05 PM] HT☆Rock: cock size
2037[2016-07-06 6:23:07 PM] HT☆Rock: sample size
2038[2016-07-06 6:23:09 PM] Collie Bro: :^ )
2039[2016-07-06 6:23:14 PM] HT☆Rock: size of your mouth so I can fuck it
2040[2016-07-06 6:23:40 PM] Collie Bro: but yeah I don't know whether we should fuck with individual stats
2041[2016-07-06 6:23:52 PM] Collie Bro: unless we're almost unanimous about it
2042[2016-07-06 6:33:46 PM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 6:22 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2043
2044<<< And if that's considered good and exciting, why the fuck did we even bother testing anything?Not talking about goals
2045[2016-07-06 6:34:06 PM] Myuer: Both teams fought a lot for conquering the ball, that's what made the match exiting.
2046[2016-07-06 6:34:15 PM] Myuer: exciting*
2047[2016-07-06 6:34:29 PM] Collie Bro: well fuck i get that just by turning on default 16
2048[2016-07-06 6:34:38 PM] Collie Bro: maybe we should just do that then
2049[2016-07-06 6:35:00 PM] Myuer: well, I never noticed the defender going to stop balls, or being able to steal the ball from golds
2050[2016-07-06 6:35:07 PM] Myuer: going to cover more etc
2051[2016-07-06 6:35:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: I saw clear improvement when I upped dprow
2052[2016-07-06 6:36:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: And yes there will still be high scoring matches but that's what you get in 16
2053[2016-07-06 6:36:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: You can't aim to control outliers because then the average game becomes boring
2054[2016-07-06 6:36:42 PM] Myuer: They are definitely improvements with dprow being buffed
2055[2016-07-06 6:38:28 PM] Myuer: Even with nerfing the golds we would get high scoring matches
2056[2016-07-06 6:38:33 PM] Gannon Murphy: have we tried 88 def prow?
2057[2016-07-06 6:38:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: just to see how far that goes
2058[2016-07-06 6:38:43 PM] Myuer: wew lad no
2059[2016-07-06 6:38:47 PM] Myuer: I didn't try it
2060[2016-07-06 6:38:50 PM] Collie Bro: that might be a bit much don't you think
2061[2016-07-06 6:39:01 PM] Collie Bro: but hey, why not if yall have time
2062[2016-07-06 6:39:05 PM] Gannon Murphy: you don't know how far is too far until you've tried it~
2063[2016-07-06 6:39:15 PM] Myuer: I agree with carma actually
2064[2016-07-06 6:39:31 PM] Myuer: would be interesting to see that stats being that high and see what happens
2065[2016-07-06 6:43:20 PM] Feedback: I've got free time, so I can probably do some tests on it.
2066[2016-07-06 7:10:09 PM] Feedback: http://puu.sh/pSOBo/d1b08eb64f.jpg
2067wew this first match
2068[2016-07-06 7:10:43 PM] Collie Bro: this is going to be quite the ride for you
2069[2016-07-06 7:10:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: w e w
2070[2016-07-06 7:13:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: Well keepers sure are fine (^:
2071[2016-07-06 7:14:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'm going to look at a finishing nerf once I can in an hour or so
2072[2016-07-06 7:14:43 PM] Collie Bro: I can help with that one
2073[2016-07-06 7:14:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: Because a 20 shot game is perfect tbh
2074[2016-07-06 7:14:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's pes 15 levels
2075[2016-07-06 7:14:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
2076[2016-07-06 7:15:06 PM] Collie Bro: Pretty much
2077[2016-07-06 7:15:19 PM | Edited 7:15:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: Just not having 15 of those be on target would go a long way
2078[2016-07-06 7:15:40 PM] Collie Bro: so, what are you thinking? -5 finishing, or more?
2079[2016-07-06 7:16:03 PM] Collie Bro: probably more tbh
2080[2016-07-06 7:16:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: Scaled by medal like height abuse
2081[2016-07-06 7:16:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
2082[2016-07-06 7:16:15 PM] Collie Bro: sure
2083[2016-07-06 7:16:18 PM] Gannon Murphy: 5/4/3 or 4/3/2?
2084[2016-07-06 7:16:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: -5, -4, -3/2 is probably a good place to start
2085[2016-07-06 7:16:40 PM] Collie Bro: I'll test -7,-5,-3
2086[2016-07-06 7:16:45 PM] Collie Bro: see if it's too far
2087[2016-07-06 7:16:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok why not
2088[2016-07-06 7:17:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: Do it with nothing else changed first
2089[2016-07-06 7:17:09 PM] Collie Bro: alright
2090[2016-07-06 7:17:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: And I'll test that plus defprow
2091[2016-07-06 7:17:26 PM] Collie Bro: on just 1.04?
2092[2016-07-06 7:17:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: Yes, regular ruleset otherwise
2093[2016-07-06 7:17:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: We want to see the effect of only nerfing finishing
2094[2016-07-06 7:18:01 PM] Collie Bro: Alright, give me time to get some teams setup, I don't have the latest pastebin
2095[2016-07-06 7:18:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: One variable basically
2096[2016-07-06 7:21:38 PM] Collie Bro: hey, is there a blanket tactic I can use instead of the default mindgame sliders? Or should I go back to the archives and figure out what they use
2097[2016-07-06 7:22:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: I suppose you could use the teams/sliders myuer posted a bit back
2098[2016-07-06 7:22:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: Or the ones I had
2099[2016-07-06 7:22:46 PM] Feedback: oh fuck me, my controller disconnected in the beginning of a test
2100[2016-07-06 7:23:12 PM] Collie Bro: k
2101[2016-07-06 7:23:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: Feedback - Today 6:22 PM
2102> oh fuck me, my controller disconnected in the beginning of a test
2103paval pls
2104[2016-07-06 7:23:49 PM] Feedback: I ought to take offense to that (^:
2105[2016-07-06 7:24:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: wait what happens when a controller dcs
2106[2016-07-06 7:24:14 PM] Feedback: coach mode for that team automatically goes off
2107[2016-07-06 7:24:28 PM] Feedback: and you have to restart the match
2108[2016-07-06 7:24:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: ew
2109[2016-07-06 7:24:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: that sucks
2110[2016-07-06 7:34:11 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 6:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
2111
2112<<< You can't aim to control outliers because then the average game becomes boring>half your four games
2113>outliers
2114
2115fam...
2116[2016-07-06 7:34:30 PM] Collie Bro: are there any teams I should include in this test or can I just pick whatever
2117[2016-07-06 7:35:09 PM] HT☆Rock: And all of this dicking with single stats is already done with the systems we tested first
2118[2016-07-06 7:35:47 PM] HT☆Rock: And a nebulous "golds aren't as fancy" complaint is causing us to chase our tails
2119[2016-07-06 7:35:57 PM] Collie Bro: we haven't really tested lowering finishing yet, ht
2120[2016-07-06 7:36:03 PM] Collie Bro: I think we should give it a go
2121[2016-07-06 7:36:16 PM] HT☆Rock: Yes we did: the ding to finishing was a part of nerfing golds to 95
2122[2016-07-06 7:36:22 PM] HT☆Rock: By default
2123[2016-07-06 7:36:52 PM] HT☆Rock: Nerfing finishing will just cause golds to whiff maybe one more shot out of 10
2124[2016-07-06 7:36:55 PM] Background Pony: This cup is for viewers. Most viewers don't give a shit about high score lines.
2125[2016-07-06 7:37:02 PM] HT☆Rock: Then why the fuck are we here?
2126[2016-07-06 7:37:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: fancy golds is a fundamental tenet of the 4cc system
2127[2016-07-06 7:37:28 PM] Background Pony: To see if we can reduce the high score lines while not making the game boring.
2128[2016-07-06 7:37:29 PM] Collie Bro: they do if it causes us to play hours of goalhorn/replays and thus run 10-hour cup days
2129[2016-07-06 7:37:30 PM] HT☆Rock: Don't give me that "muh scorelines" shit when the reason this circlejerk exists is because of "muh scorelines"
2130[2016-07-06 7:38:18 PM] HT☆Rock: fancy golds is a fundamental tenet of the 4cc systemgood golds are a fundamental tenet of the 4cc system.  fanciness comes from cards we don't have the space to put on said golds
2131[2016-07-06 7:38:37 PM] HT☆Rock: Like the movement and the skill trick cards very few people use
2132[2016-07-06 7:38:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah cause they don't fuckin work
2133[2016-07-06 7:38:56 PM] Background Pony: my original issue with PES16 was that there were high score lines, but many of the goals were caused by defensive spaghetti, and golds just running people over in the box and scoring.
2134[2016-07-06 7:38:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's not our fault
2135[2016-07-06 7:39:02 PM] Background Pony: 1.04 has fixed a lot of that.
2136[2016-07-06 7:39:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: was VGL on 1.04?
2137[2016-07-06 7:39:27 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 7:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
2138
2139<<< yeah cause they don't fuckin workMazing, Trickster, Speeding Bullet, CB&T, Scissors Feint, Heel Trick
2140[2016-07-06 7:39:37 PM] HT☆Rock: VGL was on 1.04 vanilla, yes
2141[2016-07-06 7:39:47 PM] Gannon Murphy: those first three are used all the time shut up
2142[2016-07-06 7:39:52 PM] Background Pony: so now the goal is to try and see if we can reduce the scores without making the games boring to watch.
2143[2016-07-06 7:40:21 PM] Collie Bro: I kinda like Heel Trick too, but I gave my AMFs Low Punt so what do I know
2144[2016-07-06 7:40:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: Heel trick is popular too
2145[2016-07-06 7:40:29 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 7:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
2146
2147<<< those first three are used all the time shut upI am literally the only motherfucker who put Trickster on their strikers
2148[2016-07-06 7:40:39 PM] HT☆Rock: The most used is Speeding Bullet
2149[2016-07-06 7:40:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: uhh no?
2150[2016-07-06 7:40:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm like 90% positive I've had trickster on medals before
2151[2016-07-06 7:41:20 PM] Background Pony: I'm pretty sure /fit/ and /out/ also had a trickster striker, but I'd have to check and I dont see the point of it
2152[2016-07-06 7:41:23 PM] HT☆Rock: And I'm 90% positive you're full of shit and used Mazing Run or Speeding Bullet in 16
2153[2016-07-06 7:41:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: mmm I'm pretty sure Keksandra was a Trickster
2154[2016-07-06 7:41:44 PM] Feedback: I'm pretty sure I've had trickster on one of my golds this winter, and both of them were strikers
2155[2016-07-06 7:42:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I think Ride mighta been
2156[2016-07-06 7:43:12 PM] Background Pony: jeff mangum, smokey the bear and london had trickster in winter
2157[2016-07-06 7:43:31 PM] HT☆Rock: I stand corrected, then
2158[2016-07-06 7:44:16 PM] Background Pony: ultimately, I'd rather change too little than too much.
2159[2016-07-06 7:44:27 PM] Gannon Murphy: me too
2160[2016-07-06 7:45:23 PM] Background Pony: I'll run those tests with def prowess tomorrow, so I can compare to the tests without and have a rough idea how much it affects the overall game stats
2161[2016-07-06 7:45:27 PM] HT☆Rock: The purpose of this group is to make a noticeable change in scorelines
2162[2016-07-06 7:45:43 PM] HT☆Rock: It doesn't matter if you think defenders look sharper if the scorelines are still vanilla high
2163[2016-07-06 7:45:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: The purpose of this group is to improve the gameplay
2164[2016-07-06 7:46:04 PM] HT☆Rock: If we were cool with how things were, then we'd just roll 99/88/77 1.04
2165[2016-07-06 7:46:15 PM] HT☆Rock: That's not what Lear signed me up for
2166[2016-07-06 7:46:22 PM] Background Pony: I'd be fine with that, personally. But whatever.
2167[2016-07-06 7:46:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: if the only way we can reduce scorelines is by making the game play like shit, then we're stuck with high scorelines
2168[2016-07-06 7:46:45 PM] Collie Bro: And I would like finishing not to be exceedingly high
2169[2016-07-06 7:46:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's not an 'at all costs' kinda thing
2170[2016-07-06 7:46:54 PM] Collie Bro: the result, not the stat, that is
2171[2016-07-06 7:47:32 PM] HT☆Rock: The game does not play like shit with the sweeping changes made
2172[2016-07-06 7:47:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: sez u
2173[2016-07-06 7:47:51 PM] HT☆Rock: you are literally complaining about something that is prevalent in PES16 in general: lolthroughballs
2174[2016-07-06 7:48:08 PM] HT☆Rock: nigger I am one of two people actually testing each system with real 4CC teams
2175[2016-07-06 7:48:14 PM] HT☆Rock: the fuck have you done?
2176[2016-07-06 7:48:27 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm perfectly ok with vanilla 99/88/77 1.04, personally.
2177[2016-07-06 7:48:44 PM] HT☆Rock: If you want classy golds, you would run Moeshit, which tanks scorelines like whoa
2178[2016-07-06 7:48:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: The game plays like shit on 80 nonmedals and is worse than vanilla with 95 golds
2179[2016-07-06 7:49:12 PM] HT☆Rock: The game plays like shit on 99 golds and 80 nonmedals
2180[2016-07-06 7:49:21 PM] Collie Bro: The game plays like shit
2181[2016-07-06 7:49:29 PM] Background Pony: What JB said. The tests I ran on 80/90/95 and 81/90/99 didnt look particularly entertaining
2182[2016-07-06 7:49:33 PM] HT☆Rock: Where the fuck are you getting the game is worse than vanilla with 95 golds from?
2183[2016-07-06 7:49:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: I really think if you selectively nerf finishing it can be better on vanilla
2184[2016-07-06 7:49:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: The cup I did?
2185[2016-07-06 7:49:48 PM] HT☆Rock: At this point the whole endeavor was pointless
2186[2016-07-06 7:49:49 PM] Collie Bro: ^
2187[2016-07-06 7:49:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: It was boring to watch
2188[2016-07-06 7:49:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: if you feel that way, then leave
2189[2016-07-06 7:49:59 PM] HT☆Rock: You fucks want vanilla
2190[2016-07-06 7:50:08 PM] HT☆Rock: You first, cocksucker
2191[2016-07-06 7:50:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: The tests I did last night? Really entertaining
2192[2016-07-06 7:50:19 PM] HT☆Rock: which was vanilla
2193[2016-07-06 7:50:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: Plus defprow
2194[2016-07-06 7:50:26 PM] HT☆Rock: with a D.Pro bump
2195[2016-07-06 7:50:31 PM] HT☆Rock: and the same scorelines
2196[2016-07-06 7:50:56 PM] HT☆Rock: So we should just run 1.04 vanilla
2197[2016-07-06 7:51:02 PM | Edited 7:51:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: Who cares about scorelines? /4ccg/ autists who think that's the only thing that matters?
2198[2016-07-06 7:51:17 PM] HT☆Rock: What part of THAT'S THE REASON WE"RE HERE do you not understand?
2199[2016-07-06 7:51:22 PM] HT☆Rock: You fucking fraud
2200[2016-07-06 7:51:27 PM] Feedback: [July 6, 2016 7:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
2201
2202<<< Who cares about scorelines? /4ccg/ autistic who think that's the only thing that matters?the problem with high scorelines imo is just that it makes gamedays too long
2203[2016-07-06 7:51:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: It's not the only reason
2204[2016-07-06 7:51:31 PM] Background Pony: I said from the start that I was fine with vanilla 1.04. But that doesnt mean I'm not open for other possibilities/ideas. Just that I dont want to panic and change shit for the sake of changing shit.
2205[2016-07-06 7:51:41 PM] Feedback: which in turn is taxing on the streamers/viewers etc
2206[2016-07-06 7:51:48 PM] HT☆Rock: If the scorelines were fine, we wouldn't have this council and I wouldn't have wasted three weeks on a wild goose chase
2207[2016-07-06 7:51:50 PM] Collie Bro: THANK YOU feedback
2208[2016-07-06 7:52:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: I agree scorelines are too high
2209[2016-07-06 7:52:11 PM] HT☆Rock: And the games you like have super high scorelines
2210[2016-07-06 7:52:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: But I'd rather leave them there than make games boring
2211[2016-07-06 7:52:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: scorelines are going to be lower in summer than they were in spring because of the nature of the elite/babby cup system
2212[2016-07-06 7:52:29 PM] Collie Bro: Three goals in a game is not fucking boring
2213[2016-07-06 7:52:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: Yeah look at winter vs spring
2214[2016-07-06 7:52:37 PM] HT☆Rock: Bullshit they will, carma
2215[2016-07-06 7:52:40 PM] JohnnyBravo: It's about how you get there
2216[2016-07-06 7:52:43 PM] Background Pony: skip the last (slowmo) part of the replay, then.
2217[2016-07-06 7:52:44 PM] Feedback: question is, will the viewers think the games are boring?
2218[2016-07-06 7:52:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: Not "look we got X goals isn't this great"
2219[2016-07-06 7:52:59 PM] HT☆Rock: High offense wins 16 unless you are running a possession game like /po/ in JB's cup or /e/ in mine
2220[2016-07-06 7:53:25 PM] HT☆Rock: The most throughball happy teams consistently do well
2221[2016-07-06 7:53:29 PM] Background Pony: I think teams like /fit/ would like a word with that
2222[2016-07-06 7:53:49 PM] Background Pony: in my experience defensive teams just eat super offensive teams for breakfast
2223[2016-07-06 7:53:55 PM] HT☆Rock: Nigger /fit/ ran C/S/C/Many with med defense IN JB'S OWN TEST CUP
2224[2016-07-06 7:53:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: Our best games in winter came on possession
2225[2016-07-06 7:54:06 PM] HT☆Rock: pay attention to the fucking data we're given
2226[2016-07-06 7:54:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: I just put us on our cup final tactics because that's what I had on hand
2227[2016-07-06 7:54:26 PM] HT☆Rock: and it consistently destroyed
2228[2016-07-06 7:54:29 PM] Collie Bro: Good balanced teams > offensive teams > mediocre balanced teams
2229[2016-07-06 7:54:32 PM] HT☆Rock: I wonder if there's a fucking correlation?
2230[2016-07-06 7:54:33 PM] Collie Bro: can we agree on this?
2231[2016-07-06 7:54:36 PM] Background Pony: /fit/ runs three DMF's. I'd hardly call that offensive.
2232[2016-07-06 7:54:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: Counter was used in the final to look to exploit /u/'s fluid shifts
2233[2016-07-06 7:54:53 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm talking about your fucking test cup
2234[2016-07-06 7:54:57 PM] Background Pony: Whatever, this discussion got super toxic. I'll be back tomorrow when I got time to test.
2235[2016-07-06 7:54:58 PM] HT☆Rock: the one we're using to test things now
2236[2016-07-06 7:55:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: Sure
2237[2016-07-06 7:55:16 PM] Collie Bro: I'm going to take the time to set up my tests
2238[2016-07-06 7:55:16 PM] HT☆Rock: where /fit/ ran super offensive and cleaned up
2239[2016-07-06 7:55:40 PM] Collie Bro: I'll probably start tomorrow or later
2240[2016-07-06 7:55:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok let's reassess what we want to do next: selective finishing nerf, right?
2241[2016-07-06 7:55:47 PM] HT☆Rock: Yes
2242[2016-07-06 7:55:47 PM] Collie Bro: right
2243[2016-07-06 7:55:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok
2244[2016-07-06 7:55:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: yes
2245[2016-07-06 7:56:35 PM] HT☆Rock: If goals per game, after a full test cup with that finishing nerf, are still >5, I want you all to suck my cock
2246[2016-07-06 7:57:02 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm starting the test cup tonight
2247[2016-07-06 7:57:18 PM] Collie Bro: what are you going to test?
2248[2016-07-06 7:57:23 PM] Collie Bro: -3 -4 -5?
2249[2016-07-06 7:57:31 PM] HT☆Rock: yep
2250[2016-07-06 7:57:54 PM] HT☆Rock: unless there's a different system people want to use
2251[2016-07-06 7:58:05 PM] Collie Bro: I'm testing -3 -5 -7 to see if it's too far
2252[2016-07-06 7:58:31 PM] HT☆Rock: honestly I'm leery at nerfing finishing on 77s
2253[2016-07-06 7:58:32 PM] Collie Bro: 30+ games sound reasonable?
2254[2016-07-06 7:58:39 PM] HT☆Rock: they're already kind of ass
2255[2016-07-06 7:58:57 PM] HT☆Rock: Full 8 man cup, with two legs for every KO game
2256[2016-07-06 7:59:16 PM] HT☆Rock: to prevent outliers but still provide solid data points
2257[2016-07-06 7:59:23 PM] HT☆Rock: use JB's sliders and teams as controls
2258[2016-07-06 7:59:25 PM] Collie Bro: Well maybe a third guy can test -0 -3 -4 or something
2259[2016-07-06 7:59:35 PM] HT☆Rock: I'll test 0 3 4
2260[2016-07-06 7:59:39 PM] Collie Bro: great
2261[2016-07-06 8:01:46 PM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 7:41 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2262
2263<<< And I'm 90% positive you're full of shit and used Mazing Run or Speeding Bullet in 16r9k has incisive run on a silver, I'm sure of that
2264[2016-07-06 8:02:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: whoever posted that pastebin kinda shared carma's real name kek
2265[2016-07-06 8:02:26 PM] Background Pony: you can get away with not using any of the COM playstyle cards whatsoever
2266[2016-07-06 8:02:41 PM] HT☆Rock: but muh pretty golds
2267[2016-07-06 8:06:06 PM] Myuer: With def prowness being up I saw more fight for the ball in general, I didn't see the "I wait and see what happens" from the defenders btw
2268[2016-07-06 8:06:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: which is a good thing
2269[2016-07-06 8:06:27 PM] Myuer: The only motive I'm aganist this is because would bring some export fuckery
2270[2016-07-06 8:06:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's what AATF is for
2271[2016-07-06 8:06:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: aatf can be reprogrammed for virtually any ruleset iirc
2272[2016-07-06 8:07:05 PM] Myuer: if that's true, would be gud
2273[2016-07-06 8:07:21 PM] Smugleaf: We should just give everyone a stat limit and they can distribute it freely :^]
2274[2016-07-06 8:07:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: wew
2275[2016-07-06 8:08:01 PM] Myuer: Also, I'm a person that like low scorelines more than high ones, but maybe that's just me.
2276[2016-07-06 8:08:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: I do too
2277[2016-07-06 8:08:19 PM] Myuer: I'd be even ok with matches being only 2-1. 1-1, 3-2, 1-0, 2-0 etc
2278[2016-07-06 8:08:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: but it's unreasonable to expect that from any ruleset in PES16
2279[2016-07-06 8:08:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: without destroying the level of play we expect
2280[2016-07-06 8:08:40 PM] Myuer: Even with moeshit settings you'd get high scorelines with the right tacts, to be honest.
2281[2016-07-06 8:08:42 PM] HT☆Rock: Is the finishing nerf with or without the bronze d.pro buff?
2282[2016-07-06 8:08:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: without
2283[2016-07-06 8:08:54 PM] HT☆Rock: good
2284[2016-07-06 8:09:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: I was going to try it with, and collie was going to try it without
2285[2016-07-06 8:09:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: so we can see both
2286[2016-07-06 8:09:18 PM] Feedback: I'm gonna do it with as well
2287[2016-07-06 8:09:18 PM] HT☆Rock: I've already set without and am running 0 3 4 finishing nerf
2288[2016-07-06 8:10:21 PM] Collie Bro: oh, and are we just going to ignore the stats already nerfed for height abuse or what?
2289[2016-07-06 8:10:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: look for in particular if a lower finishing makes strikers take shots from worse positions or with less setup
2290[2016-07-06 8:10:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: what heightabuse team is used?
2291[2016-07-06 8:10:53 PM] Collie Bro: /u/
2292[2016-07-06 8:10:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: because if we can make that happen, then adding the def prow buff will almost certainly improve scorelines
2293[2016-07-06 8:11:08 PM] Myuer: /u/ has only madokami with height abuse, strikers are fine
2294[2016-07-06 8:11:31 PM] Collie Bro: Alright
2295[2016-07-06 8:12:01 PM] Collie Bro: but since i brought it up, are we just going to nerf height abuse strikers further?
2296[2016-07-06 8:12:27 PM | Edited 8:12:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's to be decided later imo
2297[2016-07-06 8:12:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: we could revisit that if this works
2298[2016-07-06 8:12:44 PM] Collie Bro: k, I'll just nerf everything for now
2299[2016-07-06 8:13:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: maybe play a non-height abuse team for testing purposes
2300[2016-07-06 8:15:22 PM] Myuer: well if you are afraid about madokami just sub in spitting distance
2301[2016-07-06 8:16:47 PM] Gannon Murphy: for keepers it's no big deal
2302[2016-07-06 8:17:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: the keeping stats are the only ones that matter and those are untouched
2303[2016-07-06 8:17:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: I thought you meant you had a team with a gold height abuse striker
2304[2016-07-06 8:17:40 PM] Myuer: nah, no one of my teams had that
2305[2016-07-06 8:31:17 PM] Background Pony: I'm pretty sure winter /vp/ had height abuse strikers, if you need one of those teams
2306[2016-07-06 8:31:47 PM] HT☆Rock: Instead of asking what kind of bitchmade tumblr fuckface uses the term "toxic conversation", I want to know what is considered stylish from golds to specifically look out for
2307[2016-07-06 8:33:22 PM] Background Pony: the fuck is your problem
2308[2016-07-06 8:34:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: jesus fucking christ
2309[2016-07-06 8:35:42 PM] Smugleaf: What have I just dropped in to
2310[2016-07-06 8:36:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: ht calm it the hell down
2311Myuer
2312[2016-07-06 8:36:36 PM] Myuer: something like him
2313[2016-07-06 8:36:42 PM] Myuer: [muffled tsuu in the distance]
2314[2016-07-06 8:36:42 PM] Smugleaf: TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
2315[2016-07-06 8:37:15 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 6, 2016 8:31 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2316
2317<<< what is considered stylish from golds to specifically look out forMostly tax evasion, with a little bit of autism on the side
2318[2016-07-06 8:43:43 PM] HT☆Rock: >missi
2319>being worthy of gold
2320[2016-07-06 8:43:45 PM] HT☆Rock: (shake)
2321[2016-07-06 8:44:09 PM | Edited 8:44:17 PM] HT☆Rock: and I've been elbow deep in autism that has been mostly ignored for almost a month
2322[2016-07-06 8:44:13 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck you telling me to calm down
2323[2016-07-06 8:44:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: calm down m8
2324[2016-07-06 8:44:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: please elaborate on what we've ignored
2325[2016-07-06 8:44:45 PM] HT☆Rock: The entire /ag/L's scorelines
2326[2016-07-06 8:44:58 PM] Myuer: which isn't a thing of last month
2327[2016-07-06 8:45:00 PM] Myuer: but of last week
2328[2016-07-06 8:45:06 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
2329[2016-07-06 8:45:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: the /ag/L started what, three days ago?
2330[2016-07-06 8:45:22 PM] HT☆Rock: The /ag/L statlines are ones I said to work on
2331[2016-07-06 8:45:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: and we've definitely talked about it in here
2332[2016-07-06 8:45:32 PM] HT☆Rock: once
2333[2016-07-06 8:45:41 PM] HT☆Rock: Check the scorelines now
2334[2016-07-06 8:45:44 PM] HT☆Rock: check the games
2335[2016-07-06 8:45:46 PM] HT☆Rock: Shit works
2336[2016-07-06 8:45:58 PM] HT☆Rock: even with retard formations
2337[2016-07-06 8:45:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: I've been told harlock is a bit of a spaghetti factory
2338[2016-07-06 8:46:09 PM] HT☆Rock: >been told
2339[2016-07-06 8:46:17 PM] HT☆Rock: this is my fucking problem
2340[2016-07-06 8:46:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: obviously that's no real conclusion
2341[2016-07-06 8:46:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: just an input
2342[2016-07-06 8:46:41 PM] HT☆Rock: we don't have time for just inputs
2343[2016-07-06 8:46:48 PM] HT☆Rock: we have two-three days
2344[2016-07-06 8:46:57 PM] Myuer: Open Agleague page, 5-2, 4-4,1-1,1-1.1-4.4-2.0-3.4-3,1-0,2-1.2-3.1-1.3-2.4-2
2345[2016-07-06 8:47:30 PM] Myuer: those are last results, I don't see anything revolutionary from the scorelines alone, I see that high scorelines still happens
2346[2016-07-06 8:48:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: I simply don't know enough about how it plays
2347[2016-07-06 8:48:09 PM] HT☆Rock: As opposed to the scorelines posted on vanilla with D.Pro boosts?
2348[2016-07-06 8:48:15 PM | Edited 8:48:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'll watch some vod's tonight
2349[2016-07-06 8:48:16 PM] HT☆Rock: I DO GODDAMNIT
2350[2016-07-06 8:48:24 PM] HT☆Rock: THAT"S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS ENTIRE TIME
2351[2016-07-06 8:48:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: you're one person
2352[2016-07-06 8:48:30 PM] Smugleaf: I'm sure glad I don't have to actually do anything
2353[2016-07-06 8:48:38 PM] *** JohnnyBravo removed Smugleaf from this conversation. ***
2354[2016-07-06 8:48:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: (^:
2355[2016-07-06 8:48:39 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm the ONLY person who seems to have done things in the system
2356[2016-07-06 8:48:42 PM] *** JohnnyBravo added Smugleaf ***
2357[2016-07-06 8:48:47 PM] Myuer: I think you need only to calm down.
2358[2016-07-06 8:48:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: what I'm saying is
2359[2016-07-06 8:49:04 PM] Smugleaf: I'm just here to remind you that we're not using PES15's pitch anymore
2360[2016-07-06 8:49:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: we need more people to look at it, myself included
2361[2016-07-06 8:49:13 PM] HT☆Rock: Then fucking look at it
2362[2016-07-06 8:49:13 PM] Background Pony: [July 6, 2016 8:48 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2363
2364<<< I'm the ONLY person who seems to have done things in the system(you)
2365[2016-07-06 8:49:24 PM] Myuer: I think that everyone here agreeded to be more inclined to a official patch
2366[2016-07-06 8:49:32 PM] HT☆Rock: BGP I'm going to fuck you
2367[2016-07-06 8:49:32 PM] Myuer: instead of a fanmade one, remember this?
2368[2016-07-06 8:49:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes we did discuss that
2369[2016-07-06 8:51:58 PM] Myuer: 62 goals in 10 matches, 6,2 average on 2nd day of agleague
2370[2016-07-06 8:52:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://www.strawpoll.me/10684868
2371[2016-07-06 8:52:17 PM] Smugleaf: [July 6, 2016 8:51 PM] Myuer: 
2372
2373<<< 62 goals in 10 matcheslmfao
2374[2016-07-06 8:52:35 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to kill Chance
2375[2016-07-06 8:52:40 PM] Myuer: I didn't count
2376[2016-07-06 8:52:43 PM] HT☆Rock: and the entire /jp/ management team
2377[2016-07-06 8:52:43 PM] Smugleaf: I'll abstain from voting for now because I don't know enough about nerfing
2378[2016-07-06 8:52:43 PM] Myuer: Chance match.
2379[2016-07-06 8:52:49 PM] JohnnyBravo: there's some teams that are retardedly slurpy too in /ag/L
2380[2016-07-06 8:52:50 PM] Myuer: I only counted the 2nd match days.
2381[2016-07-06 8:52:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: like QD's 3-6-1
2382[2016-07-06 8:52:56 PM] Myuer: For the groups.
2383[2016-07-06 8:53:03 PM] Smugleaf: Didn't it lose 3-0
2384[2016-07-06 8:53:08 PM] Myuer: 62 goals for 2nd day of agleague.
2385[2016-07-06 8:53:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: and a 1-1
2386[2016-07-06 8:53:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
2387[2016-07-06 8:53:20 PM] Myuer: in 10 matches
2388[2016-07-06 8:53:20 PM] Smugleaf: QD pls
2389[2016-07-06 8:53:27 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 8:52 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2390
2391<<< and the entire /jp/ management team[July 6, 2016 8:52 PM] Myuer: 
2392
2393<<< I only counted the 2nd match days.
2394[2016-07-06 8:53:50 PM] Smugleaf: Wait I thought you were in the /jp/ management
2395[2016-07-06 8:53:51 PM] Myuer: Isn't chance team /drw/?
2396[2016-07-06 8:53:55 PM] Myuer: Or something like that?
2397[2016-07-06 8:53:57 PM] Smugleaf: What the hell team do you manage
2398[2016-07-06 8:54:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: now this is shitposting
2399[2016-07-06 8:54:06 PM] Myuer: or the chingchong name
2400[2016-07-06 8:54:19 PM] Myuer: Anyway, you can do that yourself
2401[2016-07-06 8:54:35 PM] Myuer: 62 goals in 10 matches for 2nd day of any Group, it makes 6,2 average
2402[2016-07-06 8:55:00 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 6, 2016 8:53 PM] Smugleaf: 
2403
2404<<< Wait I thought you were in the /jp/ managementdude what?
2405[2016-07-06 8:55:09 PM] Myuer: he is from /e/ smugleaf
2406[2016-07-06 8:55:14 PM] HT☆Rock: I talk to the /jp/ guys, but I have nothing to do with them tactically
2407[2016-07-06 8:55:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: weeb teams are all the same anyway :~)
2408[2016-07-06 8:56:22 PM] Background Pony: I think the FT2 was more legit than /ag/ league, for the simple reason that we actually tested and put all serious formations against eachother. Unfortunately because I don't want to give away /mlp/ summer info I can't disclose formations/tactics, so I get that people don't value it highly.
2409[2016-07-06 8:56:48 PM] Myuer: though it's still useful data, I think that everyone agreeded on that too.
2410[2016-07-06 8:57:21 PM] Background Pony: I think it's useful in that you can compare between different datasets to see how it affects games
2411[2016-07-06 8:57:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: I certainly think the streamed ft2 is more reflective of summer than vgl
2412that said /mlp/ are on the conservative side of teams
2413[2016-07-06 8:58:06 PM] Background Pony: that too
2414[2016-07-06 8:58:40 PM] Smugleaf: I think
2415[2016-07-06 8:58:45 PM] Smugleaf: PES is just broken
2416[2016-07-06 8:58:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: PES 13 beckons, lads
2417[2016-07-06 8:58:57 PM] Smugleaf: Abandon hope
2418[2016-07-06 8:59:11 PM] Myuer: Everyone thinks that
2419[2016-07-06 8:59:26 PM] Myuer: The fact is, Harlock is basically a diceroll
2420[2016-07-06 8:59:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: is there still no 1.06 crack?
2421[2016-07-06 8:59:30 PM] Myuer: between
2422[2016-07-06 8:59:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: reminder that smulel is the reason we're stuck on 16 :~)
2423[2016-07-06 8:59:36 PM] Myuer: having a slurpy fest
2424[2016-07-06 8:59:45 PM] Myuer: and a old fashioned goalfest
2425[2016-07-06 8:59:57 PM] Collie Bro: Just about to start testing, could I see the johnnybravo test format?
2426[2016-07-06 9:00:00 PM] Background Pony: PES16 is a godsend for aesthetics guys, and that's it
2427[2016-07-06 9:00:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: 16 certainly has a greater variation in goal totals than other versions
2428[2016-07-06 9:00:08 PM] Collie Bro: So i don't do it stupidly and get shit data
2429[2016-07-06 9:00:10 PM] Myuer: I think /ag/League prooves this by looking at the scorelines
2430[2016-07-06 9:00:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: same version can get 0-0 and 6-5
2431[2016-07-06 9:00:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhh hang on a moment collie
2432[2016-07-06 9:00:54 PM] Myuer: [July 3, 2016 7:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
2433
2434<<< HT https://puu.sh/pPkYE/8ef647c291.txt
2435[2016-07-06 9:00:57 PM] Myuer: wasn't this?
2436[2016-07-06 9:01:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes
2437[2016-07-06 9:01:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: ty
2438[2016-07-06 9:01:07 PM] Myuer: np
2439[2016-07-06 9:01:09 PM] Collie Bro: alright
2440[2016-07-06 9:01:13 PM] Collie Bro: /u/
2441/s/
2442/vr/
2443/lit/
2444/tg/
2445/k/
2446/toy/
2447/fa/
2448[2016-07-06 9:01:19 PM] Collie Bro: I chose these teams
2449[2016-07-06 9:01:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: mono orange no subs
2450[2016-07-06 9:01:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: reasonable sliders
2451[2016-07-06 9:01:29 PM] Myuer: If you have /u/ from the wiki page
2452[2016-07-06 9:01:37 PM] Myuer: you have to adjust the entire fluid
2453[2016-07-06 9:01:43 PM] Myuer: because the fluid is all mindgames
2454[2016-07-06 9:01:51 PM] Collie Bro: I have the spring cup edit bin
2455[2016-07-06 9:02:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: the exact sliders don't particularly matter as long as they're within reason unless we're doing direct comparisons
2456[2016-07-06 9:02:22 PM] Collie Bro: and trust me myuer, we've got your fluid settings on file :^ )
2457[2016-07-06 9:02:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: which I don't think you are here, there's too much in play
2458[2016-07-06 9:02:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: the whole /u/ setup got shown on stream multiple times
2459[2016-07-06 9:02:41 PM] Myuer: [July 6, 2016 9:02 PM] Collie Bro: 
2460
2461<<< and trust me myuer, we've got your fluid settings on file :^ )Oh i know that well. After all we got spoiled aganist /d/
2462[2016-07-06 9:02:54 PM] Myuer: THANKS RETORT
2463[2016-07-06 9:03:09 PM] Collie Bro: didn't help us enough though i guess
2464[2016-07-06 9:03:26 PM] Collie Bro: anyway gonna test and shit
2465[2016-07-06 9:03:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: I knew a bit about /u/ from summer but that helped ;)
2466[2016-07-06 9:03:44 PM] Myuer: heh
2467[2016-07-06 9:05:05 PM] Myuer: Btw I counted bad, it's 14 matches with 62 goals, so 4,42 average
2468[2016-07-06 9:05:43 PM] Myuer: with 2 matches still missing to be played
2469[2016-07-06 9:05:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: not that tactics really mattered once everyone was dead and we threw p3
2470[2016-07-06 9:06:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: but the first 90 was top
2471[2016-07-06 9:06:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: off to watch /ag/L vod's
2472[2016-07-06 9:06:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: what's a good game to watch
2473[2016-07-06 9:06:40 PM] Myuer: I got told
2474[2016-07-06 9:06:44 PM] Myuer: that the kanker one is good
2475[2016-07-06 9:08:43 PM] Myuer: not that tactics really mattered once everyone was dead and we threw p3
2476but the first 90 was topThe problem of that final, we didn't try to park the bus and also we still think that having PFOL as Creative Playmaker was a mistake
2477[2016-07-06 9:09:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: poacher/cp is top tho
2478[2016-07-06 9:09:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: what did you think, fox/poacher?
2479[2016-07-06 9:10:01 PM] HT☆Rock: it was TB on both
2480[2016-07-06 9:10:13 PM] Myuer: Homu being a Fox was in consideration
2481[2016-07-06 9:10:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: nah poacher was great with your counter game
2482[2016-07-06 9:11:10 PM] Myuer: Now for summer, we'll see what to do
2483[2016-07-06 9:11:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: three six FUN
2484[2016-07-06 9:11:44 PM] Myuer: 2-3-5
2485[2016-07-06 9:11:47 PM] HT☆Rock: also watch a /kanker/ match, /t&w/ - /rags/, /dg/ - /aus/, /l/ - /toon/
2486[2016-07-06 9:11:57 PM] Feedback: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 conga line
2487[2016-07-06 9:12:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: consummate v's
2488[2016-07-06 10:00:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pSXVj/2f802ea1f1.webm lmao
2489[2016-07-06 10:03:46 PM] HT☆Rock: This has happened twice in the current test cup I'm doing
2490[2016-07-06 10:03:51 PM] HT☆Rock: >piz
2491[2016-07-06 10:04:15 PM] HT☆Rock: Why PES and not sweet death
2492[2016-07-06 10:04:21 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm so tired of watching matches
2493[2016-07-06 10:04:29 PM] HT☆Rock: fuck this game
2494[2016-07-06 10:04:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: same
2495[2016-07-06 10:05:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: no matter what we decide someone will be upset anyway
2496[2016-07-06 10:05:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pSYcp/e2ebc51649.jpg
2497[2016-07-06 10:05:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: FEEDBACK YOU MEME LOVING FUCK
2498[2016-07-06 10:09:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: why does dtroit sound like he's putting on an accent
2499[2016-07-06 10:15:26 PM] King Lear: https://puu.sh/pSYcp/e2ebc51649.jpgdidn't the real Trogdor have a flat backline bar an elevated RB?
2500[2016-07-06 10:15:43 PM] Feedback: Yes, but it was 4CBs
2501[2016-07-06 10:15:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: I could swer the real trogdor had only one fullback tbh
2502[2016-07-06 10:15:50 PM] Feedback: no fullbacks
2503[2016-07-06 10:15:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh, weird
2504[2016-07-06 10:16:24 PM] Feedback: also, a DMF instead of a CMF
2505[2016-07-06 10:17:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: so it could have been a 4-4-diamond-2, but instead was that brilliantly retarded monster
2506[2016-07-06 10:34:08 PM] HT☆Rock: It's Trogdor 2.0
2507[2016-07-06 10:35:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: Trog 2: Trog Harder
2508[2016-07-06 11:49:31 PM] HT☆Rock: I have officially tested for this bullshit more than I've ever tested for my own team
2509[2016-07-06 11:54:08 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147624261#p147668037
2510Whichever one of you this is I am not pleased. Posting part of our discussions will only stir shit up and you should know better than to throw fuel on the fire for the sake of seeing flames. I am fine with people posting their test results publicly and would even encourage doing so but this is different than that. I will also note that the timezone that is implied by the timestamps does not match that which any of you reside in so the person that did this was very likely attempting to cover their tracks. I am not going to start a witch hunt on this matter but please be aware of how I feel about this.
2511[2016-07-06 11:57:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: Lear that time zone is US Pacific
2512[2016-07-06 11:57:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: I.e. me, except I wouldn't put my fucking real name on 4ccg
2513[2016-07-06 11:58:14 PM] King Lear: Aren't you in mountain time?
2514[2016-07-06 11:58:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah I moved to Navada
2515[2016-07-06 11:58:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: Nevada*
2516[2016-07-06 11:59:46 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm Central
2517[2016-07-06 11:59:54 PM] HT☆Rock: [it ain't me playing]
2518[2016-07-07 12:00:46 AM] King Lear: I'm not looking for a witch hunt, no need for anyone to defend themselves.
2519[2016-07-07 12:01:03 AM] HT☆Rock: Well someone decided to be a cunt
2520[2016-07-07 12:21:50 AM] HT☆Rock: >almost done with group stages
2521[2016-07-07 12:21:52 AM] HT☆Rock: tuck me in
2522[2016-07-07 12:21:53 AM] HT☆Rock: let me die
2523[2016-07-07 12:56:44 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pT6vC/f411c9476f.txt
2524[2016-07-07 12:58:19 AM] HT☆Rock: I'm done
2525[2016-07-07 12:58:23 AM] HT☆Rock: I'm just fucking done
2526[2016-07-07 1:22:16 AM] Collie Bro: I'm 1/3 done with my tests and I'm getting pretty much the same as HT, marginal improvement of the amount of shots that go in and fuck all else
2527[2016-07-07 1:23:10 AM] Collie Bro: What I'd like to try out now is -7/-5/0 with DProw buffs, maybe that'll solve everything
2528[2016-07-07 1:32:15 AM] Collie Bro: http://www.mediafire.com/download/r3senpu3gi7lh0b/753.docx because I don't have puush
2529[2016-07-07 3:31:06 AM] Myuer: I just woke up and saw the post
2530[2016-07-07 3:31:12 AM] Myuer: on the thread
2531[2016-07-07 3:31:18 AM] Myuer: Who the heck did it?
2532[2016-07-07 3:39:55 AM] Smugleaf: I blame carma, he's big enough of a meme to try to ironically dox himself :^]
2533[2016-07-07 3:40:45 AM] Smugleaf: But I have no idea, the timestamps were about 7 hours behind /my time/
2534[2016-07-07 3:45:28 AM] Myuer: I don't know even how to check the timestamps on 4chan if you ask me
2535[2016-07-07 3:50:40 AM] Smugleaf: They are in the pastebin silly sausage
2536[2016-07-07 3:51:26 AM] Myuer: >3:36 PM
2537[2016-07-07 3:51:41 AM] Myuer: Here it was around midnight
2538[2016-07-07 3:51:43 AM] Smugleaf: If you copy and paste a message in Skype, it will create a timestamp from when they posted, with your local time innit
2539[2016-07-07 3:51:50 AM] Myuer: 0:36
2540[2016-07-07 6:04:26 AM] Background Pony: I'm running a testcup with 88 def prowess on non-medals, to see what the effect is, and the main effect seems to be that defenders etc are better at blocking shots in the box. They put themselves between strikers and the goal more effectively.
2541[2016-07-07 6:05:18 AM] Background Pony: so you have the same amount of shots as vanilla, but more wide or blocked shots.
2542[2016-07-07 6:05:43 AM] Background Pony: Im only a few games in, though.
2543[2016-07-07 6:07:31 AM] Background Pony: for some reason theyre absolutely retarded at handling lofted passes, though
2544[2016-07-07 6:52:23 AM] Background Pony: Im also getting throughballs for days. Not sure why. Perhaps because defenders try to cover more and dont seem to anticipate runs as much.
2545[2016-07-07 10:00:25 AM] Background Pony: here's the tests I ran with 88 def prowess on non medals (bottom right):
2546[2016-07-07 10:00:26 AM] Background Pony: http://puu.sh/pTssv/b8bd8859e9.png
2547[2016-07-07 10:03:07 AM] Background Pony: in effect, the results seem similar to 80/90/95, but at the same time the defenders also seem far less capable. This means golds do more impressive things.
2548[2016-07-07 10:05:05 AM] Background Pony: downside is that throughballs come very easily. Also, the defensive prowess buff might strengthen midfield murderball teams disproportionally (DMFs/destroyer CMFs).
2549[2016-07-07 10:05:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: So if we go that route I assume you'd recommend an amount lower than 88
2550[2016-07-07 10:06:17 AM] Background Pony: I dunno, I think that value is fine, because it didnt buff CBs nearly as much as I thought it would
2551[2016-07-07 10:09:09 AM] JohnnyBravo: what's your opinion about the types of teams that won on each one
2552[2016-07-07 10:09:22 AM] Background Pony: there were several extremely slurpy games, and also some massive blowout games
2553[2016-07-07 10:09:34 AM] JohnnyBravo: for example the default rules one was won by a 5-4-1; were the winners on other setups more balanced?
2554[2016-07-07 10:10:22 AM] Background Pony: 80/90/95 benefits tiki taka teams.
2555[2016-07-07 10:10:59 AM] Background Pony: 81/90/99 felt like it benefitted whoever's defense was having a better day
2556[2016-07-07 10:11:04 AM] JohnnyBravo: I agree, you need that to break through the more condensed midfield otherwise you just have to go over the top and pray
2557[2016-07-07 10:11:15 AM | Edited 10:11:32 AM] Background Pony: 77/88/99 benefits defensive midfield teams (with 88 def prowess on non medals)
2558[2016-07-07 10:12:39 AM] Background Pony: we should ask ourselves what people want to see, and decide based on that
2559[2016-07-07 10:12:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: yeah that's why I asked
2560[2016-07-07 10:13:07 AM] JohnnyBravo: if you assume people will find close-ish to the optimal style
2561[2016-07-07 10:13:31 AM] Background Pony: not what people in /4ccg/ want, because I think what /4ccg/ wants and what /4ccg/ needs are not the same thing
2562[2016-07-07 10:35:00 AM] JohnnyBravo: so basically
2563[2016-07-07 10:35:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: FUCK pes16
2564[2016-07-07 10:43:12 AM] Background Pony: pretty much
2565[2016-07-07 11:10:19 AM] Collie Bro: I would go for the lower right tbh
2566[2016-07-07 12:23:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 7, 2016 10:35 AM] JohnnyBravo: 
2567
2568<<< FUCK pes16I think that's the one thing we all agree on
2569[2016-07-07 12:31:29 PM] Collie Bro: why pes16 and not fifa
2570[2016-07-07 12:31:38 PM] Gannon Murphy: why pes16 and not pes13
2571[2016-07-07 12:31:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: why pes16 and not suicide
2572[2016-07-07 12:31:56 PM] Duke Silver: ^ my vote
2573[2016-07-07 12:31:57 PM] Collie Bro: why pes16 and not Football Manager
2574[2016-07-07 12:32:17 PM] Feedback: why
2575[2016-07-07 12:32:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: why.jpg
2576[2016-07-07 12:32:40 PM] Collie Bro: y'know I'd actually like to try that out sometime, if it's possible to get multiplayer on FM
2577[2016-07-07 2:05:30 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 12:32 PM] Collie Bro: 
2578
2579<<< y'know I'd actually like to try that out sometime, if it's possible to get multiplayer on FMYeah, with little fractions per match, not very fun to watch
2580[2016-07-07 2:06:14 PM] Collie Bro: not for an actual cup ofc, but for a memevitational I'd enjoy it
2581[2016-07-07 2:06:23 PM] Collie Bro: it'd be better than OSM at any rate
2582[2016-07-07 2:06:24 PM] Myuer: Oh, for that I'd be up.
2583[2016-07-07 2:53:22 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 9:35 AM
2584> FUCK pes16
2585Yo KONAMI how u want your game, fam?
2586J U S T
2587[2016-07-07 2:53:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: hey ht wanna 0-0 and cuck durgen (^:
2588[2016-07-07 2:55:03 PM] HT☆Rock: lel
2589[2016-07-07 4:53:21 PM] HT☆Rock: I say, if the sweet release of death isn't an option, we buff keepers to 80 and just sit on that
2590[2016-07-07 4:53:51 PM] HT☆Rock: Unless people are cool with D.Pro 80 on bronzes
2591[2016-07-07 4:54:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm down for dpro at like 80-81
2592[2016-07-07 4:54:16 PM] Gannon Murphy: or more
2593[2016-07-07 4:54:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: idc
2594[2016-07-07 4:56:28 PM] HT☆Rock: 88 might be too high, crunching the numbers on the horsefucker cup
2595[2016-07-07 4:56:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: I imagine 84 is as high as we could reasonably go
2596[2016-07-07 4:57:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: I thought keepers were fine with dprow but I don't mind if they get boosted a bit too
2597[2016-07-07 4:57:40 PM] Background Pony: You should try a few games on 88.
2598[2016-07-07 4:57:51 PM] Background Pony: I didnt get the feeling that it was too high.
2599[2016-07-07 4:58:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: Having it too high might lead to the throughball spam though
2600[2016-07-07 4:58:18 PM | Edited 4:58:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean for sentimental and dubs reasons I'd love to go to 88, but like
2601[2016-07-07 4:58:27 PM] Background Pony: jeah, I dont know what's up with that.
2602[2016-07-07 4:58:33 PM] Background Pony: the throughball spam, I mean.
2603[2016-07-07 4:58:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: Could be -too- good at coverage meaning only throughballs go off
2604[2016-07-07 4:59:07 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 3:58 PM
2605> Having it too high might lead to the throughball spam though
2606Throughball spam is a problem with PES 16 in general, from my research
2607[2016-07-07 4:59:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
2608[2016-07-07 5:00:37 PM] Myuer: oh wait, in my tests I buffed the keepers too with def prow
2609[2016-07-07 5:00:57 PM] HT☆Rock: So I'm thinking if the last line of defense (the keeper) is stronger, we can still have 99 golds pissing on the back line but not have the keepers literally do nothing half the time
2610[2016-07-07 5:01:18 PM] HT☆Rock: Which is what I found on Finish nerf 99/88/77
2611[2016-07-07 5:01:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: I'd be cool with 82 defprow and keeping stats
2612[2016-07-07 5:01:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: ie a moderate boost
2613[2016-07-07 5:01:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: that sounds nice
2614[2016-07-07 5:02:17 PM] HT☆Rock: Keepers tho
2615[2016-07-07 5:03:05 PM] Myuer: In my tests with the def prow improved
2616[2016-07-07 5:03:15 PM] Myuer: I put that stat buffed for keepers too
2617[2016-07-07 5:03:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: should we talk about height rules too
2618[2016-07-07 5:03:42 PM] Background Pony: same. I buffed all non-medals, keepers included.
2619[2016-07-07 5:03:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: No time for heights imo
2620[2016-07-07 5:04:18 PM] Myuer: well we still have like 24-30 hours
2621[2016-07-07 5:04:21 PM] Background Pony: I think the one manlet height bracket is a good idea (all 175cm)
2622[2016-07-07 5:04:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: I mean I'm ok with the current rules
2623[2016-07-07 5:04:30 PM] HT☆Rock: I like that rule too
2624[2016-07-07 5:04:31 PM] JohnnyBravo: Sure that's easy
2625[2016-07-07 5:04:36 PM] HT☆Rock: The 175 bracket
2626[2016-07-07 5:04:43 PM] Background Pony: 175 x 6 / 180 x 7 / 185 x 10
2627[2016-07-07 5:04:47 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 5:04 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
2628
2629<<< I mean I'm ok with the current rulessame
2630[2016-07-07 5:04:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: No more 165 cm fucks
2631[2016-07-07 5:05:11 PM] Background Pony: for aesthetics reasons people can make players shorter if they want, but any player shorter than 175 will still count as 175cm tall
2632[2016-07-07 5:05:30 PM] HT☆Rock: I still would like a test with keeper stats (Keeping, Reflexes, One on One, imgay) equal to what we decide for D.Pro
2633[2016-07-07 5:05:52 PM] HT☆Rock: Because those seem to be the keeper equivalent
2634[2016-07-07 5:05:53 PM] Myuer: If you have time run it
2635[2016-07-07 5:06:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: if anything
2636let's just move the 165cm player into the 170cm bracket
2637[2016-07-07 5:06:06 PM] Myuer: Or someone else from here
2638[2016-07-07 5:06:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: so that managers are less inclined to remember "oh that's my manlet, I won't play him" because they'll have three now
2639[2016-07-07 5:06:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: Just do all 175
2640[2016-07-07 5:08:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm ok with that too I guess.  As a manager I like that, but as a fan I like the variety
2641[2016-07-07 5:08:15 PM] Myuer: >not wanting to play manlets
2642[2016-07-07 5:08:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: they never learn
2643[2016-07-07 5:09:47 PM] Duke Silver: Just to confirm this stat set, since I can test it tonight and tomorrow
2644[2016-07-07 5:09:55 PM] Duke Silver: Defensive Prowess on Bronze players to 82
2645[2016-07-07 5:10:04 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 5:05 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2646
2647<<< I still would like a test with keeper stats (Keeping, Reflexes, One on One, imgay) equal to what we decide for D.Pro
2648[2016-07-07 5:10:09 PM] Duke Silver: Goalkeeping/Catching/Clearance/Reflexes/Coverage on Keepers to 82 as well?
2649[2016-07-07 5:10:14 PM] JohnnyBravo: imgay
2650[2016-07-07 5:10:23 PM] Duke Silver: obviously but still that look good?
2651[2016-07-07 5:10:35 PM] Myuer: Do that Duke Silver, for Keepers, just to see what happens
2652[2016-07-07 5:10:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 7, 2016 5:05 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2653
2654<<< imgay
2655[2016-07-07 5:10:48 PM] Gannon Murphy: ebin
2656[2016-07-07 5:11:10 PM] Duke Silver: Learning a lot today tbh
2657[2016-07-07 5:11:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: You know what I learned today?
2658sick bassline
2659[2016-07-07 5:11:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
2660[2016-07-07 5:12:05 PM] Duke Silver: I learned that it is possible for your anus to clench halfway up your abdomen
2661[2016-07-07 5:12:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: wat
2662[2016-07-07 5:12:19 PM] Myuer: ok
2663[2016-07-07 5:12:25 PM] Myuer: I don't care, just run those tests
2664[2016-07-07 5:13:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: Gannon Murphy - Today 4:12 PM
2665> wat
2666 /seinfeld/ advanced on 90+5
2667[2016-07-07 5:13:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: w e w
2668[2016-07-07 5:13:23 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 4:10 PM
2669> Goalkeeping/Catching/Clearance/Reflexes/Coverage on Keepers to 82 as well?
2670Yeah
2671[2016-07-07 5:13:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: sounds like a certain smulel I know
2672[2016-07-07 5:14:13 PM] Duke Silver: Any form changes in this test set? GKs or All Bronze to 8?
2673[2016-07-07 5:14:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: Nah
2674[2016-07-07 5:14:42 PM] Myuer: Form 8 is shit
2675[2016-07-07 5:14:45 PM] Duke Silver: kk
2676[2016-07-07 5:19:36 PM] HT☆Rock: Form 8 gets us all greens p.much
2677[2016-07-07 5:19:48 PM] HT☆Rock: Unless RNGEEZUS hates you
2678[2016-07-07 5:19:59 PM] Background Pony: jeah, higher form = more likely to be green
2679[2016-07-07 5:20:02 PM] HT☆Rock: rip daigo
2680[2016-07-07 5:20:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: Someone told me sexcopter used to run like form 2 and roll for more variance
2681[2016-07-07 5:24:07 PM] Background Pony: low form = bigger varience, slightly more likely to be blue or purple
2682[2016-07-07 5:24:27 PM] Background Pony: high form = bigger chance to be green, slightly more likely to be orange or red
2683[2016-07-07 5:24:40 PM] Myuer: [July 7, 2016 5:20 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2684
2685<<< rip daigoheh
2686[2016-07-07 5:24:57 PM] Background Pony: according to form tests I ran back for PES14. Trying to find the data, but its buried deep.
2687[2016-07-07 6:48:59 PM] Collie Bro: ask the nsa for it, they probably have it somewhere
2688[2016-07-07 10:32:23 PM] Duke Silver: Can someone give me an excuse to throw these results out? Because we're at 7.33 Goals per game after 6
2689[2016-07-07 10:32:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: are they at least good goals
2690[2016-07-07 10:32:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: and not throughballs
2691[2016-07-07 10:33:16 PM] Duke Silver: Hold on, I've been counting them. There have been some awesome goals, but some meh ones
2692[2016-07-07 10:33:17 PM] HT☆Rock: dukesilver4cc - Today 9:32 PM
2693> Can someone give me an excuse to throw these results out? Because we're at 7.33 Goals per game after 6
2694What teams
2695[2016-07-07 10:33:35 PM] Duke Silver: /fit/ - /trv/ - /tv/ - /b/ using JB's puush
2696[2016-07-07 10:33:43 PM] Duke Silver: Haven't done the other 4's group yet
2697[2016-07-07 10:35:12 PM] Feedback: I'm actually just about to finish up my test cup on 88 def. prow and -5/-4/-3 to finishing.
2698[2016-07-07 10:35:30 PM] Duke Silver: Looks like 7 total throughball goals in those 6 games, and 5 Offsides on a throughball attempt
2699[2016-07-07 10:35:42 PM] Duke Silver: So (maybe) defenders are better about waiting to chase them?
2700[2016-07-07 10:36:37 PM] Feedback: Goals aren't down by any means, most of them (and most scoring chances for that matter) have come off throughballs, and the games themselves just aren't that fun to watch with the exception of a few minor details I haven't seen on previous rulesets
2701[2016-07-07 10:37:04 PM] Duke Silver: (Objectively) these games have actually been a lot of fun to watch
2702[2016-07-07 10:37:18 PM] Feedback: Mine haven't :/
2703[2016-07-07 10:37:36 PM] Feedback: (doesn't help that a good amount were blowouts)
2704[2016-07-07 10:37:46 PM] Duke Silver: Forwards seem to be a lot more willing to play the extra pass - /fit/ had a goal against /trv/ with 6 passes in the box that were delicious
2705[2016-07-07 10:38:13 PM] Duke Silver: Unfortunately it was the first goal in a 4-2 game and it got kind of drowned out with the rest of them
2706[2016-07-07 10:38:33 PM] Feedback: I've had not really had that variety
2707[2016-07-07 10:38:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: Duke what are you running again?
2708[2016-07-07 10:38:53 PM] Feedback: though I have noticed on this setting that crosses have seemed more viable
2709[2016-07-07 10:39:04 PM] Duke Silver:  - 1.04 Vanilla, All Orange Conditions
2710 - Regular 77/88/99 GGSS Medal System
2711 - Defensive Prowess for Bronze Players to 82
2712 - Goalkeeping/Catching/Clearance/Reflexes/Coverage on Keepers to 82
2713 - Using Teams/Tactics from https://puu.sh/pPkYE/8ef647c291.txt
2714[2016-07-07 10:39:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok
2715[2016-07-07 10:39:14 PM] Feedback: and rebounds off the keepers tend to end up somewhere that other forwards can reach
2716[2016-07-07 10:40:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: Getting real tired of your "no changes work" shit, pes16
2717[2016-07-07 10:40:29 PM] Gannon Murphy: >buffed keepers and defending >7 goals per game
2718[2016-07-07 10:40:50 PM] Duke Silver: I don't care what anyone else says, I'm convinced that PES 16 uses some kind of RNG entropy that makes my computer dump out LOADSAGOALS
2719[2016-07-07 10:41:27 PM] Gannon Murphy: RNG is probably location based
2720[2016-07-07 10:41:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: :^)
2721[2016-07-07 10:41:52 PM] Collie Bro: it runs on atmospheric memes
2722[2016-07-07 10:41:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: >improve defense
2723>more goals
2724help
2725[2016-07-07 10:42:29 PM] Feedback: My test cup final is going to penalties between /fit/ and /tv/
2726[2016-07-07 10:42:45 PM] Duke Silver: I'm just going to boost a bunch of offensive stats so I can have a 2.5 Goals/Game Test Cup
2727[2016-07-07 10:42:50 PM] Duke Silver: Because that's how it owrks
2728[2016-07-07 10:42:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: (It ain't me starts playing)
2729[2016-07-07 10:42:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: let's just go all-99s
2730[2016-07-07 10:43:09 PM] Collie Bro: all 40s
2731[2016-07-07 10:43:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: unlimited cards, unlimited heights
2732[2016-07-07 10:43:47 PM] Feedback: "As the rules council, we've decided the best step forward is for there to be no rules. The cup is over. Goodbye."
2733[2016-07-07 10:44:02 PM] JohnnyBravo: Remember how final bosses conceded twice on two separate occasions  (cwl)
2734[2016-07-07 10:44:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
2735[2016-07-07 10:47:43 PM] Duke Silver: Oh, the answer was to just tell you guys about the LODSOFGOALS games, because that one was a 4(3) 1-2 4(2)
2736[2016-07-07 10:47:44 PM] Duke Silver: Ok
2737[2016-07-07 10:51:19 PM] HT☆Rock: come sweet death
2738[2016-07-07 10:51:20 PM] HT☆Rock: (mm)
2739[2016-07-07 10:53:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: http://pastebin.com/BbRCbCDv should I leak to /4ccg/? :^D
2740[2016-07-07 10:54:03 PM] HT☆Rock: i will leak in ur bum
2741[2016-07-07 10:54:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: hot
2742[2016-07-07 11:00:50 PM] Collie Bro: we can leak that we're testing all 66 players because "we have to stop goals at all costs" :^ )
2743[2016-07-07 11:01:33 PM] HT☆Rock: we can leak deez nuts
2744[2016-07-08 1:28:36 AM] King Lear: low form = bigger varience, slightly more likely to be blue or purple
2745high form = bigger chance to be green, slightly more likely to be orange or redI ran form tests in PES 15 and this is what I saw.
2746[July 7, 2016 10:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
2747
2748<<< Remember how final bosses conceded twice on two separate occasions  (cwl)/wu/ lads.
2749[2016-07-08 1:29:22 AM] Gannon Murphy: Lear can I leak that pastebin
2750[2016-07-08 1:30:00 AM] King Lear: Do you honestly think that will end well?
2751[2016-07-08 1:30:02 AM] Collie Bro: every day is a living hell that I can never escape no matter how many tests I run
2752[2016-07-08 1:30:07 AM] Collie Bro: you can leak that
2753[2016-07-08 1:30:15 AM] Duke Silver: help 3 of the 4 knockout games in these test cups have gone to extra time
2754[2016-07-08 1:30:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean there will be at least one kek to be had
2755[2016-07-08 1:30:24 AM] Duke Silver: (Or this 4th one is at least probably GOING to et)
2756[2016-07-08 1:30:34 AM] Duke Silver: PES knows I want to go to bed and is just fucking with me
2757[2016-07-08 1:30:49 AM] King Lear: Then go ahead.
2758[2016-07-08 1:34:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: I wonder if it's too obvious a shitpost
2759[2016-07-08 1:35:29 AM] Collie Bro: do you put a lot of care and attention into your shitposts or is it usually a spontaneous thing?
2760Gannon Murphy
2761[2016-07-08 1:36:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: I'm really good at shitposting
2762[2016-07-08 1:40:21 AM] King Lear: You should be ashamed.
2763[2016-07-08 1:41:10 AM] Collie Bro: Impressive
2764[2016-07-08 1:41:13 AM] Gannon Murphy: I don't do it as often as you might think
2765[2016-07-08 1:41:22 AM] HT☆Rock: once is too much
2766[2016-07-08 1:41:23 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's just every once in a while I go fucking ham
2767[2016-07-08 1:41:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: like, once every coupla months
2768[2016-07-08 1:42:09 AM] King Lear: You should still feel ashamed.
2769[2016-07-08 1:42:20 AM] Gannon Murphy: it's only /4ccg/
2770[2016-07-08 1:42:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: turning a dumpster fire into a bigger dumpster fire is no big deal
2771[2016-07-08 1:42:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: I love burning garbage
2772[2016-07-08 1:42:52 AM] Gannon Murphy: so does Feedy
2773[2016-07-08 1:42:59 AM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 1:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: 
2774
2775<<< it's only /4ccg/I said, this morning before >rags lost.
2776[2016-07-08 1:43:50 AM] King Lear: Be the change you want to see in the world.
2777[2016-07-08 1:43:51 AM] Collie Bro: [July 8, 2016 1:42 AM] Gannon Murphy: 
2778
2779<<< I love burning garbageSo does Feedback but I guess that's a different meaning of burn
2780[2016-07-08 1:44:43 AM] HT☆Rock: (chuckle)
2781[2016-07-08 1:44:54 AM] Gannon Murphy: hehe
2782[2016-07-08 1:44:57 AM] HT☆Rock: >I spent a day not testing
2783[2016-07-08 1:44:58 AM] Feedback: People still burn CDs?
2784[2016-07-08 1:45:03 AM] HT☆Rock: I feel so much better
2785[2016-07-08 1:47:50 AM] Duke Silver: It's funny you say that, because I spent a day testing and I feel so much worse http://puu.sh/pUj4L/5d67c44dae.txt
2786[2016-07-08 1:47:55 AM] Duke Silver:  - Goals Per Game:   6.19
2787 - Shots Per Game (Overall(On Target)): 17.38(13)
2788 - Saves Per Game:    6.31
2789[2016-07-08 1:47:58 AM] Duke Silver: What the fuck is wrong with my PES
2790[2016-07-08 1:48:13 AM] Collie Bro: does it have 16 at the end?
2791[2016-07-08 1:48:14 AM] Gannon Murphy: >6.19
2792[2016-07-08 1:48:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: fuck
2793that
2794[2016-07-08 1:48:59 AM] HT☆Rock: BOOYAKA BOOYAKA
2795[2016-07-08 1:49:01 AM] HT☆Rock: FUCK THIS GAME
2796[2016-07-08 1:49:06 AM] Duke Silver: DEFENSIVE
2797[2016-07-08 1:49:07 AM] Duke Silver: BOOSTS
2798[2016-07-08 1:49:50 AM] Collie Bro: can I leak this
2799[2016-07-08 1:50:08 AM] Gannon Murphy: I gotchu pham
2800[2016-07-08 1:50:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: hold on
2801[2016-07-08 1:50:16 AM] Duke Silver: Not until I check those Puush .jpgs and make sure I didn't screencap Chrome
2802[2016-07-08 1:50:37 AM] Gannon Murphy: nah pham I'm gonna make it nice and sterile
2803[2016-07-08 1:51:08 AM] Duke Silver: Can we just go full 1984 and unthink this shit
2804[2016-07-08 1:51:13 AM] Duke Silver: Tell everyone Spring had 8 goals per game
2805[2016-07-08 1:51:19 AM] HT☆Rock: /lit/ 7(4) 2-9 16(11) /wg/
2806H E L P
2807[2016-07-08 1:51:22 AM] Duke Silver: And that we're going to make everything better and lower it to ~6
2808[2016-07-08 1:51:35 AM] Collie Bro: We were always at war with FIFA
2809[2016-07-08 1:51:35 AM] Feedback: We have always been on PES14 1.12.
2810[2016-07-08 1:51:38 AM] Gannon Murphy: kek
2811[2016-07-08 1:53:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: casual reminder that fewer than 6 goals in a game is a slurper
2812[2016-07-08 1:53:40 AM] Gannon Murphy: more goals = more hype
2813[2016-07-08 1:53:52 AM] Duke Silver: The worst part is that most of these games were actually pretty fun to watch (unless /wg/ or /po/ were playing sorry not sorry)
2814[2016-07-08 1:54:43 AM] Collie Bro: Real talk for a second, if we could find a way to cut out those overly long replays of corners/failed shots I would be sort of fine with the amount of goals
2815[2016-07-08 1:55:24 AM] Duke Silver: I mean you could just press start to skip them, we don't need to save every "Look at this striker looking frustrated!" replay
2816[2016-07-08 1:55:39 AM] HT☆Rock: this game makes me want to die
2817[2016-07-08 1:55:53 AM] Collie Bro: the thing is streamers usually don't bother to
2818[2016-07-08 1:56:00 AM] Duke Silver: Also who said I liked 6.19 goals per game
2819[2016-07-08 1:56:34 AM] Collie Bro: Anonymous No. 147795826
2820[2016-07-08 1:56:41 AM] Collie Bro: Can't imagine who that might be
2821[2016-07-08 1:56:42 AM] King Lear: Money on Carma or Collie.
2822[2016-07-08 1:56:59 AM] Gannon Murphy: it probably wasn't collie
2823[2016-07-08 1:57:03 AM] Gannon Murphy: jussayin
2824[2016-07-08 1:57:18 AM] Collie Bro: It was Duke and he's just an ebin rusemaster
2825[2016-07-08 1:57:42 AM] Duke Silver: Frustrating stats TBH. SO many more shots on target when compared to the vanilla stuff I was testing, it makes the better play completely worthless :/
2826[2016-07-08 1:57:46 AM] Gannon Murphy: was it too much or a stroke of genius to call this council "#toplads"
2827[2016-07-08 1:57:50 AM] HT☆Rock: Did anyone besides me run 99/88/80?
2828[2016-07-08 1:58:26 AM] Collie Bro: If I'm a top lad, god help this community
2829[2016-07-08 1:58:33 AM] King Lear: Slightly more serious is there a way to get everyone to post all of their test cup results so I can compile them?
2830[2016-07-08 1:58:45 AM] Collie Bro: yeah hang on fam
2831[2016-07-08 1:58:51 AM] Collie Bro: half a test cup coming up
2832[2016-07-08 1:59:04 AM] HT☆Rock: You want a single doc, Lear?
2833[2016-07-08 1:59:07 AM] Collie Bro: [July 7, 2016 1:32 AM] Collie Bro: 
2834
2835<<< http://www.mediafire.com/download/r3senpu3gi7lh0b/753.docx
2836[2016-07-08 1:59:57 AM] Feedback: I'm gonna head off to bed for now, but I'll do a writeup of my test cup and give it to you in the morning.
2837[2016-07-08 1:59:57 AM] Duke Silver: The Puush I just put out, then the other things that I tried are in this zip
2838[2016-07-08 1:59:58 AM] Duke Silver: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hXLVMLsRLhTmo1YlBIUEhLVlE
2839[2016-07-08 2:00:23 AM] Duke Silver: Those are just Form 8 Keepers, then a 95/86/77 Stat compression (Weird I know but it was 3 weeks ago before we had discussed them
2840[2016-07-08 2:00:47 AM] King Lear: I'm just going to put every link I see from now on into a pastebin for easy access.
2841[2016-07-08 2:01:06 AM] Collie Bro: Will it be released once we decide on the rules?
2842[2016-07-08 2:01:26 AM] King Lear: We can release it before but yeah this'll all get put out there.
2843[2016-07-08 2:01:35 AM] HT☆Rock: tuck us in
2844[2016-07-08 2:01:37 AM] HT☆Rock: let us die
2845[2016-07-08 2:01:47 AM] Collie Bro: Great, at least they'll know we did something
2846[2016-07-08 2:01:49 AM] Duke Silver: Seems like there should be at least some communication with the bigger community - a couple of people were asking in /4ccg/ earlier if there was going to be another 'rules summit' stream
2847[2016-07-08 2:02:08 AM] Collie Bro: that was fun, we should do another at some point
2848[2016-07-08 2:02:09 AM] HT☆Rock: Do we have time and a streamer for that?
2849[2016-07-08 2:02:18 AM] Collie Bro: maybe before autumn, not now tho
2850[2016-07-08 2:02:32 AM | Edited 2:02:42 AM] HT☆Rock: we could probably put in some space for it in the /ag/L if /c/rispy's internet doesn't expode again
2851[2016-07-08 2:02:32 AM] King Lear: Time? no. Streamer? I can stream.
2852[2016-07-08 2:03:09 AM] Duke Silver: Oh I'm sure the Pastebin will just lead to (smh anime grill pic) >They ran this many test matches >This is the best shit they could come up with >#toplads
2853[2016-07-08 2:03:17 AM] HT☆Rock: Well yeah
2854[2016-07-08 2:03:23 AM] HT☆Rock: because /4ccg/ is shit
2855[2016-07-08 2:03:31 AM] Gannon Murphy: [11:01:26 PM] King Lear: It looks like /wg/ is improved under these settings.  I approve.
2856[2016-07-08 2:03:38 AM] Collie Bro: M E R C
2857[2016-07-08 2:03:40 AM] Gannon Murphy: does this sound enough like Lear
2858[2016-07-08 2:04:01 AM] Feedback: friendly reminder to keep in mind that /4ccg/'s opinions in no way represent that of the viewerbase at large
2859[2016-07-08 2:04:01 AM] Duke Silver: Real Talk /wg/ was genuinely miserable to watch in that test cup
2860[2016-07-08 2:04:26 AM] Duke Silver: Like shit midfield, lethargic defense, somehow made it to knockouts behind FC Cunt Destroyer
2861[2016-07-08 2:04:28 AM] Collie Bro: I'm sure /4ccg/ will be calm and understanding and thank us for all our harpffffhahaha
2862[2016-07-08 2:07:54 AM] King Lear: These settings seem to somehow make /wg/ git gud. Coincidentally, I think I know what our settings should be.
2863[2016-07-08 2:08:19 AM] Duke Silver: Well now you can just take a screenshot.
2864[2016-07-08 2:08:39 AM] Gannon Murphy: ooh that does sound nice
2865[2016-07-08 2:08:45 AM] King Lear: http://pastebin.com/CDNsDQMw Did I miss anything?
2866[2016-07-08 2:11:16 AM] Collie Bro: can't really tell just by looking at this
2867[2016-07-08 2:11:31 AM] Collie Bro: maybe mark it with the user and what they were testing?
2868[2016-07-08 2:12:26 AM] HT☆Rock: Add our suicide pact to it
2869[2016-07-08 2:18:05 AM] King Lear: I just control+f'd for puu.sh and grabbed everything I saw. If I missed anything I'll just make another.
2870[2016-07-08 2:24:02 AM] Gannon Murphy: I appreciate the memes in the thread right now
2871[2016-07-08 2:24:33 AM] Gannon Murphy: I think we've accomplished all that we can
2872that is, making a new temporary meme in lieu of actually fixing PES
2873[2016-07-08 4:50:02 AM] Myuer: So basically we are back at the point of start?
2874[2016-07-08 4:53:09 AM] King Lear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvc7ql44T2A
2875[2016-07-08 5:16:37 AM] Myuer: I take it as a yes.
2876[2016-07-08 5:17:49 AM] Myuer: The problem is that Tomorrow there is the deadline
2877[2016-07-08 10:01:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 1:57 AM] HT☆Rock: 
2878
2879<<< Did anyone besides me run 99/88/80?no because you said it was awful
2880[2016-07-08 3:40:48 PM | Edited 3:41:01 PM] HT☆Rock: It is less awful than the rest of the shit I tested past that point
2881[2016-07-08 3:41:46 PM | Edited 3:42:02 PM] HT☆Rock: At this point we need to find the lesser evil because there's no good here to be found
2882[2016-07-08 3:42:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
2883[2016-07-08 3:42:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: I was just saying at the time nobody saw a point to repeat it
2884[2016-07-08 3:42:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: we can revisit that if you think it's the least awful option at this point
2885[2016-07-08 3:42:40 PM] Collie Bro: I'm still of the mind that we should try -7-5-0 finishing with a DProw buff
2886[2016-07-08 3:43:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: problem with dprow buff only is it encourages througball spam according to a few, and that's probably because you have better coverage on short passes but speed is still 77 so throughballs are the optimal pass always
2887[2016-07-08 3:44:18 PM] Collie Bro: alright then
2888[2016-07-08 3:44:21 PM] Duke Silver: I didn't see throughball spam being effective with the dprow buffs that I tested, to be honesty
2889[2016-07-08 3:44:34 PM] Duke Silver: I mean there were some, but it's PES, there are always some
2890[2016-07-08 3:44:39 PM] JohnnyBravo: ye
2891[2016-07-08 3:45:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: @HT your review of 80/88/99 said it was worse than what I wrote about 80/90/95 so I'm curious as to why you think that's the best option now
2892[2016-07-08 3:45:25 PM] Collie Bro: well I'm going to finish the test cup that I started, then maybe someone can try it with non-medal finishing back at 77
2893[2016-07-08 3:47:10 PM] HT☆Rock: JohnnyBravo - Today 2:45 PM
2894> @HT your review of 80/88/99 said it was worse than what I wrote about 80/90/95 so I'm curious as to why you think that's the best option now
2895Because I liked the play of 80/90/95 because it was more of a team effort, but 80/88/99 had the individual class folks wanted from golds while still having defenses close down and shit
2896[2016-07-08 3:48:05 PM] HT☆Rock: The finishing nerf also had a lot of good build up play in the box, it's just that keepers did fuck and all outside that one /lit/ keeperbabby game
2897[2016-07-08 3:51:12 PM] HT☆Rock: I'd say finishing nerf + keeper buff, but didn't silver's tests go wacko with that?
2898[2016-07-08 3:51:31 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes
2899[2016-07-08 3:52:01 PM] HT☆Rock: I thought there was a bronze D.Pro buff in there too
2900[2016-07-08 3:52:17 PM] Duke Silver: Mine had a dpro to 82 for brones
2901[2016-07-08 3:52:40 PM] HT☆Rock: Because it seems like giving 77s a D.Pro buff too high makes them try shit they can't actually do
2902[2016-07-08 3:53:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we want to certainly change things it would be by adopting one of the 80 nonmedal systems. this runs the risk of changing too much.
2903
2904if we wanted to play it safer it would be one of the individual stat buffs. this runs the risk of changing too little.
2905[2016-07-08 3:53:24 PM] HT☆Rock: Rock and a hard place
2906[2016-07-08 3:54:34 PM] Feedback: http://pastebin.com/cYmEsn8K
2907Finished writeup for the test cup I ran on 88 D.Pro for 77s & -5/-4/-3 finishing nerf. Would not recommend.
2908[2016-07-08 3:54:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: >first games are 6-4 and then 2-1
2909fuck you pes
2910[2016-07-08 3:55:44 PM] HT☆Rock: (mm) but the eyes never open
2911[2016-07-08 3:59:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: good shit feedback
2912-I think lowered momentum might be more of a general 1.04 thing than any system, as I've noticed very little of it in all of the formats I've tried
2913-upping defprow definitely just narrows what kinds of chances are even tried. one reason for the seemingly contradictory increase in goals might be that chances are now funneled to more optimal strategies.
2914[2016-07-08 4:00:02 PM] HT☆Rock: But this helps confirm my hypothesis that giving 77s a high D.Pro boost just makes them go too hard while too slow and it turns into throughball city
2915[2016-07-08 4:00:49 PM] HT☆Rock: Because the purely finishing nerf tests had them sit like tards, but that meant passing in the box was necessary to score most of the time
2916[2016-07-08 4:01:54 PM] Collie Bro: >turn off pes
2917[2016-07-08 4:01:57 PM] Collie Bro: >turn it back on
2918[2016-07-08 4:02:03 PM] Collie Bro: >games are suddenly slurpers
2919[2016-07-08 4:02:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: how stupid is suggesting like 95/85/75
2920[2016-07-08 4:02:49 PM] Collie Bro: >nerfing defenders
2921[2016-07-08 4:02:58 PM] Collie Bro: we've suggested stupider
2922[2016-07-08 4:02:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: tbf that nerfs -everything-
2923[2016-07-08 4:04:24 PM] HT☆Rock: Might as well run AGL Harlock then, JB
2924[2016-07-08 4:04:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: speaking of
2925[2016-07-08 4:05:06 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm thinking someone try a pure keeper buff to 80 and a finishing nerf to golds/slivers and see what happens.
2926[2016-07-08 4:05:10 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pUWGw/5eb820d0a8.txt
2927[2016-07-08 4:05:21 PM] HT☆Rock: That might be the Gordian Knot cut we need
2928[2016-07-08 4:05:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: based on what /ag/L games I've watched
2929[2016-07-08 4:05:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: tl;dr fuck harcock lmaooooo
2930[2016-07-08 4:06:06 PM] HT☆Rock: harcock sucks lmaooooo
2931[2016-07-08 4:07:19 PM] HT☆Rock: But yeah, finish nerf of golds and silvers, combined with a keeper all stat buff to 80.  No other changes
2932[2016-07-08 4:07:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure
2933[2016-07-08 4:07:31 PM] HT☆Rock: That might work
2934[2016-07-08 4:07:46 PM] HT☆Rock: Given what I've seen of the data so far
2935[2016-07-08 4:07:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: it's so simple it may just work
2936[2016-07-08 4:08:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: because every time we try to fuck with nonmedals pes spits in our faces
2937[2016-07-08 4:08:10 PM] Collie Bro: *harcuck
2938[2016-07-08 4:08:50 PM] Collie Bro: should I abandon the tests I've got going right now and try that setup? Because I like the sound of that
2939[2016-07-08 4:09:47 PM] JohnnyBravo: yes
2940[2016-07-08 4:09:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: if what you have right now sucks
2941[2016-07-08 4:10:11 PM] Collie Bro: It's not the most sucky but I'd like to move on
2942[2016-07-08 4:10:29 PM] Collie Bro: so yeah, what finishing nerf should I try? -7 -5 again?
2943[2016-07-08 4:10:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure go for it
2944[2016-07-08 4:10:39 PM] Collie Bro: k
2945[2016-07-08 4:11:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: uhhh ht what finishing nerf were you going to do
2946[2016-07-08 4:11:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: ideally you do slightly different ones
2947[2016-07-08 4:11:39 PM | Edited 4:11:50 PM] HT☆Rock: And the best part is: if games turn too keeperbabby, we can just de-nerf finishing
2948[2016-07-08 4:12:26 PM] HT☆Rock: I'll stick with my 4/3/0 so I don't have to change as much on my save
2949[2016-07-08 4:12:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure then collie does 7/5/0 and we compare
2950[2016-07-08 4:13:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: what does the finishing nerf actually do though?  Because I'm concerned that if all it does is nerf accuracy (ie fewer shots on target) that's fine, but if it makes strikers shoot on worse opportunities, that might be better for our purposes
2951[2016-07-08 4:13:20 PM] Collie Bro: I'll just use the same teams as my last test because I can't be assed to change more teams
2952[2016-07-08 4:13:50 PM] Collie Bro: I've seen strikers fuck up once or twice by shooting too early
2953[2016-07-08 4:14:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: what if we lower attacking prowess
2954[2016-07-08 4:14:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: say -5,-4,-3, and then bump dpro to 81 on nonmedals
2955[2016-07-08 4:15:00 PM] Collie Bro: I wouldn't do both
2956[2016-07-08 4:15:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: let's try this first
2957[2016-07-08 4:15:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: based on what happened with dprow I'd rather not touch prowess
2958[2016-07-08 4:15:28 PM] Collie Bro: we saw what happened when we buffed dprow and nerfed finishing
2959[2016-07-08 4:16:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: finishing -> scoring instinct, heading
2960attacking prowess ->scoring instinct, elusiveness
2961[2016-07-08 4:17:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: makes me wonder if finishing actually has an AI impact
2962[2016-07-08 4:17:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: because one of our guidelines is to not make the AI significantly worse in search of results
2963[2016-07-08 4:17:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
2964[2016-07-08 4:17:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: well I think elusiveness isn't the problem anyway
2965[2016-07-08 4:17:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: so fuck nerfing apro
2966[2016-07-08 4:18:05 PM] JohnnyBravo: definitely not
2967[2016-07-08 4:18:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: dribble cards don't even work lel
2968[2016-07-08 4:18:12 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
2969[2016-07-08 4:18:26 PM] Collie Bro: oh what should Madokami be with 80 keepers?
2970[2016-07-08 4:18:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: nonmedal v medal in a 1v1 usually comes out in the defending player's favor anyway
2971[2016-07-08 4:18:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: 77
2972[2016-07-08 4:18:35 PM] Collie Bro: k
2973[2016-07-08 4:18:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: players can't dribble around each other for shit
2974[2016-07-08 4:18:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: 77 height abuse keeper is what /Seinfeld/ is doing actually
2975[2016-07-08 4:19:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: working nicely except when someone left on the 165cm one and he conceded a squat toilet which lost a game (^^:
2976[2016-07-08 4:20:36 PM] Collie Bro: I just realized I nerfed the finishing on subs too even though they would never play in testing
2977[2016-07-08 4:20:41 PM] Collie Bro: I might be retarded
2978[2016-07-08 4:20:56 PM] Duke Silver: ?? Did you nerf it manually and not through RigIt or something?
2979[2016-07-08 4:20:56 PM] HT☆Rock: We're all retarded here
2980[2016-07-08 4:21:02 PM] Collie Bro: next gen
2981[2016-07-08 4:21:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: meh some teams don't actually start their "starters"
2982[2016-07-08 4:21:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's playing it safe
2983[2016-07-08 4:21:24 PM] Collie Bro: oh shit you're right
2984[2016-07-08 4:23:02 PM | Edited 4:23:08 PM] HT☆Rock: So you put the actual starters on the starting XI
2985[2016-07-08 4:23:57 PM] Collie Bro: I have to admit I never bothered to do that for /an/
2986[2016-07-08 4:24:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: [July 8, 2016 4:23 PM] HT☆Rock: 
2987
2988<<< So you put the actual starters on the starting XIIt's about the same amount of work to do either
2989[2016-07-08 4:24:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: >teams that don't make the first 11 players in the editor their starting XI (angry)
2990[2016-07-08 4:26:38 PM] Collie Bro: >accidentally add a y instead of 7
2991[2016-07-08 4:26:47 PM] Collie Bro: >next gen crashes before I can fix
2992[2016-07-08 4:26:51 PM] Collie Bro: life is pain
2993[2016-07-08 4:27:27 PM] Duke Silver: I did that twice making /Seinfeld/ because I didn't realize it crashes if you try to make the kit name >15 characters. And obviously each time it happened on like the 20th person
2994[2016-07-08 4:28:19 PM] Gannon Murphy: I have two versions of next gen because some players crash the old one, and some other players crash the new one
2995[2016-07-08 4:33:31 PM] HT☆Rock: PES 16 tools: as fucked as the game
2996[2016-07-08 4:33:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: always
2997[2016-07-08 4:34:19 PM] Duke Silver: At least we know what everything in the tools actually does
2998[2016-07-08 4:35:03 PM] JohnnyBravo: bring
2999back
3000dots
3001and
3002arrows
3003[2016-07-08 4:35:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: 1.12 was the highest form of PES
3004[2016-07-08 4:35:54 PM] Collie Bro: I think we should just get people to meet up for a 5v5
3005[2016-07-08 4:36:04 PM] Collie Bro: wear cardboard boxes for blenders
3006[2016-07-08 4:36:23 PM] Duke Silver: If you don't think I already look like a cute anime grill blender, you're sorely mistaken
3007[2016-07-08 4:42:09 PM] King Lear: wear cardboard boxes for blendersI've already made a boxhead for myself.
3008[2016-07-08 4:42:45 PM] Gannon Murphy: I should get a red wig and keksandra mask lel
3009[2016-07-08 4:44:50 PM] HT☆Rock: I'll just cover myself in white fluid
3010[2016-07-08 4:50:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: collie can Harambe please be on /an/ this summer
3011[2016-07-08 5:00:32 PM] Collie Bro: It got over 80% votes on the last poll I ran, I dare say he'll be a silver at least
3012[2016-07-08 5:01:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: >yfw harambe scores against /pol/ and justice is served at last
3013[2016-07-08 5:01:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: lmao
3014[2016-07-08 5:01:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: >yfw a /mu/ defender kills Harambe
3015[2016-07-08 5:02:01 PM] JohnnyBravo: (cwl)
3016[2016-07-08 5:02:01 PM] Collie Bro: >yfw harambe gets a red card right afterward
3017[2016-07-08 5:02:05 PM] Collie Bro: lel
3018[2016-07-08 5:02:41 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 5:01 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
3019
3020<<< lmao
3021>yfw a /mu/ defender kills Harambetwenty twenty twenty four hours ago
3022defender killed harambe
3023[2016-07-08 5:50:21 PM] Collie Bro: bring back ketchup bug tbh
3024[2016-07-08 5:58:12 PM] Myuer: -2 min to midnight
3025[2016-07-08 5:58:13 PM] Myuer: woo
3026[2016-07-08 6:01:18 PM] JohnnyBravo: in the third world maybe :~)
3027[2016-07-08 6:01:28 PM] Myuer: >
3028[2016-07-08 6:01:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: :~)
3029[2016-07-08 6:01:37 PM] HT☆Rock: :`)
3030[2016-07-08 6:01:52 PM] HT☆Rock: im crying
3031[2016-07-08 6:02:22 PM] Myuer: so in the end what are we going to decide?
3032[2016-07-08 6:02:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: Let's do central time because it's the best
3033[2016-07-08 6:02:42 PM] Myuer: so 2 hours from now
3034[2016-07-08 6:02:55 PM] Duke Silver: I think he mean Central 'Murica time
3035[2016-07-08 6:02:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's 7 hours from now
3036[2016-07-08 6:03:01 PM] Duke Silver: AKA the time he is in
3037[2016-07-08 6:03:08 PM] Myuer: >murrican times
3038[2016-07-08 6:03:16 PM] Myuer: so when here it's 7 am
3039[2016-07-08 6:03:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: >yurop
3040>relevant
3041[2016-07-08 6:03:36 PM] Background Pony: when do we decide on the rules?
3042[2016-07-08 6:03:53 PM] Collie Bro: we can't even decide on the damn time how we gonna decide on the pes rules
3043[2016-07-08 6:04:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: In all seriousness Lear has always used eastern time
3044[2016-07-08 6:04:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: We should try to make a decision before the Europeans go to bed though
3045[2016-07-08 6:05:15 PM] Background Pony: I'm not sure how much longer I'll be awake
3046[2016-07-08 6:05:32 PM] Collie Bro: should we tuck you in
3047[2016-07-08 6:05:49 PM] Smugleaf: What are we counting down?
3048[2016-07-08 6:05:51 PM] Background Pony: I already have a splitting headache.
3049[2016-07-08 6:05:54 PM] Myuer: I can stay awake till 7 am in cas
3050[2016-07-08 6:05:55 PM] Myuer: case*
3051[2016-07-08 6:06:01 PM] Myuer: Don't worry about me basically
3052[2016-07-08 6:07:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: ok bgp before you go to bed what's your vote
3053[2016-07-08 6:08:04 PM] Background Pony: we should have a list of options first, before we start voting
3054[2016-07-08 6:08:51 PM] Myuer: NERF GOLDS
3055[2016-07-08 6:09:04 PM] Background Pony: every option has its benefits, but is also shit in a way
3056[2016-07-08 6:09:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: Realistically:
30571.04 with previous rules
305880/90/95
305980/88/99
306077/88/99 +4 defprow
306177/88/99 80 keepers, finishing nerf
3062harlock with /ag/L rules
3063[2016-07-08 6:10:04 PM] JohnnyBravo: what am I missing
3064[2016-07-08 6:10:23 PM] Background Pony: 81/90/99 with form 8 keepers
3065[2016-07-08 6:10:38 PM] Background Pony: but Im not sure how much different that is from 80/88/99
3066[2016-07-08 6:10:43 PM] JohnnyBravo: probably not much
3067[2016-07-08 6:10:44 PM] Collie Bro: >form 8 keeper meme
3068[2016-07-08 6:10:51 PM] HT☆Rock: There's also normal stats on Harlock
3069[2016-07-08 6:10:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: form changes seem useless
3070[2016-07-08 6:10:59 PM] Gannon Murphy: I thought we decided that 81/90/99 was no bueno
3071[2016-07-08 6:11:05 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm kind of feeling 99/88/77 with 80 keepers
3072[2016-07-08 6:11:18 PM] Background Pony: and 1.04, I assume
3073[2016-07-08 6:11:19 PM] Collie Bro: yeah
3074[2016-07-08 6:11:25 PM] Myuer: 80-90-95 1.04
3075[2016-07-08 6:11:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: what about finishing
3076[2016-07-08 6:11:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: @HT
3077[2016-07-08 6:11:38 PM] Collie Bro: I don't think 1.04 is an option at this point as much as a necessity
3078[2016-07-08 6:11:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: mhm
3079[2016-07-08 6:11:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't see any reason to prefer 1.03 to it
3080[2016-07-08 6:12:07 PM] HT☆Rock: [July 8, 2016 6:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
3081
3082<<< what about finishing
3083@HTdoesn't seem to be affecting too much to the good or the bad
3084[2016-07-08 6:12:09 PM] JohnnyBravo: you can argue that 1.04 isn't enough but you really can't argue that 1.03>1.04
3085[2016-07-08 6:12:19 PM] HT☆Rock: unless we're talking Harlock
3086[2016-07-08 6:12:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
3087[2016-07-08 6:12:28 PM] Background Pony: 1.04 is a bandaid in a world where a bandaid is the best you can get
3088[2016-07-08 6:12:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: but we don't have enough on 1.03 harlock and with the deadline we won't
3089[2016-07-08 6:12:43 PM] Myuer: ^
3090[2016-07-08 6:12:48 PM] HT☆Rock: we're bleeding and dying and a bandaid is all we get
3091[2016-07-08 6:13:30 PM] Background Pony: I'll go with 99/88/77 with buffed keepers (80).
3092[2016-07-08 6:13:36 PM] Collie Bro: I'm finding an increase in KAPOWs so far with nerfed finishing
3093[2016-07-08 6:13:47 PM] HT☆Rock: same
3094[2016-07-08 6:13:57 PM] Myuer: and no wide shoots?
3095[2016-07-08 6:13:58 PM] Myuer: strange
3096[2016-07-08 6:14:06 PM] Collie Bro: the same amount tbh
3097[2016-07-08 6:14:15 PM] Myuer: with nerfed finishing I was expecting a lot of wide
3098[2016-07-08 6:14:20 PM] Myuer: tbh
3099[2016-07-08 6:14:26 PM] Collie Bro: granted this is only my second match so far in this new test cup
3100[2016-07-08 6:14:38 PM] Myuer: not even kapows, only wide shoots
3101[2016-07-08 6:14:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we don't -have- to alter finishing then we shouldn't
3102[2016-07-08 6:15:15 PM] Collie Bro: I'd be fine with 80 keepers 1.04, but if finishing helps in my tests I will argue for it
3103[2016-07-08 6:15:39 PM] Collie Bro: hasn't really yet but it's still early days
3104[2016-07-08 6:15:39 PM] Background Pony: the only problem I see with 80 keepers is that in the case of benuldies, everyone's going to go medals + keeper as their first five
3105[2016-07-08 6:16:08 PM] Collie Bro: keepers taking penalties is fun tho
3106[2016-07-08 6:16:12 PM] Myuer: well benanldius are a complete diceroll
3107[2016-07-08 6:16:25 PM] Myuer: even silvers fuck up benaldies
3108[2016-07-08 6:16:34 PM] Myuer: so we shouldn't worry about that too much imo
3109[2016-07-08 6:16:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 6:15 PM] Background Pony: 
3110
3111<<< the only problem I see with 80 keepers is that in the case of benuldies, everyone's going to go medals + keeper as their first fivewhile true, I don't see this as a big deal at all
3112[2016-07-08 6:17:23 PM] Background Pony: thought it was worth mentioning. /mlp/ almost always uses the keeper as the fifth man anyway, so it doesn't affect us.
3113[2016-07-08 6:17:54 PM] Collie Bro: yeah because your keeper is essentially a silver already, horsefucker
3114[2016-07-08 6:17:56 PM] Background Pony: but if everyone does it, it might get old
3115[2016-07-08 6:18:01 PM] Myuer: As I said, it's not a big deal.
3116[2016-07-08 6:18:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: Have mulp even ever been in a shootout
3117[2016-07-08 6:18:08 PM] Myuer: Even silvers do bad penalties
3118[2016-07-08 6:18:09 PM] HT☆Rock: benuldies are pure RNG fam
3119[2016-07-08 6:18:13 PM] HT☆Rock: it don't mattah
3120[2016-07-08 6:18:15 PM] Collie Bro: yeah jb
3121[2016-07-08 6:18:15 PM] Background Pony: not in a long time, I think
3122[2016-07-08 6:18:20 PM] HT☆Rock: none o dis mattahs
3123[2016-07-08 6:18:26 PM] JohnnyBravo: Spring 13?
3124[2016-07-08 6:18:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: why no 80 keeping stats tbh
3125[2016-07-08 6:18:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: and 77 everything else
3126[2016-07-08 6:18:53 PM] Background Pony: spring 13 vs /d/ was the one everyone remembers
3127[2016-07-08 6:18:59 PM] Myuer: Maybe penalties would matter with the finishing nerf more
3128[2016-07-08 6:19:00 PM] Gannon Murphy: we did 66 keeping stats in PES14
3129[2016-07-08 6:19:01 PM] Myuer: actually
3130[2016-07-08 6:19:27 PM] Duke Silver: I tried 82 keeping stats, did anyone else test with those changed specifically (i.e. not keepers overall)?
3131[2016-07-08 6:20:05 PM | Edited 6:20:19 PM] Background Pony: no. I tried 81 bronze overall, and they were very effective
3132[2016-07-08 6:20:17 PM] Background Pony: like, too effective.
3133[2016-07-08 6:20:21 PM] Collie Bro: This game is 3-5 with no end in sight help
3134[2016-07-08 6:20:32 PM] Myuer: pes16 doing his dirty work
3135[2016-07-08 6:21:01 PM] Background Pony: but keepers depend on defenders a lot.
3136[2016-07-08 6:21:47 PM] Duke Silver: I didn't see a ton "better" per se from 82 Keeper stats, but the only thing defenders had changed on mine was dpro
3137[2016-07-08 6:21:51 PM] Duke Silver: So not speed or anything like that
3138[2016-07-08 6:22:00 PM] Collie Bro: 4-5
3139[2016-07-08 6:22:08 PM] Myuer: nothing new collie
3140[2016-07-08 6:22:09 PM] Myuer: go on
3141[2016-07-08 6:22:19 PM] Collie Bro: ;_;
3142[2016-07-08 6:22:31 PM] Collie Bro: why can't we just get this game to behave...
3143[2016-07-08 6:23:10 PM] Background Pony: I think we've concluded at this point that PES16 is going to have retarded blowout games regardless, and trying to eliminate those just makes standard games extremely slurpy.
3144[2016-07-08 6:24:21 PM] HT☆Rock: just bumping keeper stats doesn't help them carma
3145[2016-07-08 6:24:25 PM] Background Pony: all we can do is balance it down a tad, to lessen the impact of blowouts
3146[2016-07-08 6:24:35 PM] HT☆Rock: just like only bumping d.pro doesn't help 77s
3147[2016-07-08 6:24:41 PM] Gannon Murphy: fine, then I say we don't buff keepers
3148[2016-07-08 6:25:07 PM] HT☆Rock: then I say go fuck yourself
3149[2016-07-08 6:25:14 PM] HT☆Rock: because these keeper buff games are great
3150[2016-07-08 6:25:31 PM] Collie Bro: they actually are, despite the depressingly high scorelines
3151[2016-07-08 6:25:39 PM] Background Pony: 77/88/99 with 80 keepers, right?
3152[2016-07-08 6:25:43 PM] Collie Bro: ye
3153[2016-07-08 6:25:43 PM] HT☆Rock: yep
3154[2016-07-08 6:25:55 PM] Background Pony: if you guys like it, then I guess that has my vote
3155[2016-07-08 6:26:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: and you're positive we can't just buffthe keeping stats?
3156[2016-07-08 6:26:13 PM] JohnnyBravo: Flat stats on keepers > buffing only keeper stats then?
3157[2016-07-08 6:26:19 PM] JohnnyBravo: For whatever reason
3158[2016-07-08 6:26:56 PM] Gannon Murphy: fine, fuck it, the keepers in pens thing isn't a big deal anyway
3159[2016-07-08 6:26:57 PM] HT☆Rock: it's the same idea as why only buffing defensive prowess made the scorelines go higher: you have better senses but you suck too bad to make use of them
3160[2016-07-08 6:27:28 PM] Collie Bro: and why nerfing finishing does fuckall
3161[2016-07-08 6:27:37 PM] HT☆Rock: ye
3162[2016-07-08 6:27:45 PM] Collie Bro: they just knock it in anyway because they create so much space to exploit
3163[2016-07-08 6:29:23 PM] Background Pony: if anything, this group has given a good insight into what the stats do, and how changing the AI isnt as simple as buffing/nerfing a single stat
3164[2016-07-08 6:29:46 PM] Background Pony: should be useful if people are going to make a fan patch or something
3165[2016-07-08 6:29:54 PM] Duke Silver: Thank you HT, that's pretty much exactly what I saw yesterday, I was just bashing my head into a wall trying to figure out "Why"
3166[2016-07-08 6:29:56 PM] Background Pony: inb4 PES17 does everything differently
3167[2016-07-08 6:32:00 PM] HT☆Rock: it will lel
3168[2016-07-08 6:32:13 PM] HT☆Rock: also, the previous keeper stat only buff was 82, right?
3169[2016-07-08 6:32:18 PM] Duke Silver: Yes
3170[2016-07-08 6:32:25 PM] Duke Silver: Or the one that we tested at least
3171[2016-07-08 6:32:31 PM] HT☆Rock: Alright cool
3172[2016-07-08 6:32:54 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm going to do this group stage faggotry, then run KOs trying that and see if there's a difference
3173[2016-07-08 6:33:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: So let's come up with a number if we do flat keeper boost
3174[2016-07-08 6:33:17 PM] HT☆Rock: so we can get the keeper stat only buff down in the same tests
3175[2016-07-08 6:33:20 PM] Collie Bro: I'll keep my 80-across-the-board keepers into the knockouts
3176[2016-07-08 6:33:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: 80?
3177[2016-07-08 6:33:24 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm on 80 now
3178[2016-07-08 6:33:28 PM] Collie Bro: 80
3179[2016-07-08 6:33:32 PM] HT☆Rock: KOs I'm bumping keeper stats to 82
3180[2016-07-08 6:33:42 PM] HT☆Rock: but just the goalkeeping stats
3181[2016-07-08 6:40:35 PM] HT☆Rock: yo collie, you're saying you're getting really high scorelines?
3182[2016-07-08 6:40:40 PM] HT☆Rock: Are you getting a lot of draws?
3183[2016-07-08 6:40:43 PM] Collie Bro: no
3184[2016-07-08 6:41:01 PM] HT☆Rock: huh
3185[2016-07-08 6:41:10 PM] Collie Bro: but things like 4-1 and such have been common in both these tests and my last ones
3186[2016-07-08 6:42:07 PM] HT☆Rock: weird
3187[2016-07-08 6:42:11 PM] HT☆Rock: what teams are you using?
3188[2016-07-08 6:43:07 PM] Collie Bro: /u/ /s/ /vr/ /lit/ /tg/ /k/ /toy/ /fa/
3189[2016-07-08 6:43:39 PM] Collie Bro: with JB's sliders he posted earlier
3190[2016-07-08 6:43:58 PM] HT☆Rock: hmm
3191[2016-07-08 6:44:12 PM] HT☆Rock: I've been running the exact teams and sliders JB had in that pastebin
3192[2016-07-08 6:44:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 6:43 PM] Collie Bro: 
3193
3194<<< with JB's sliders he posted earlierI never posted sliders for any of those teams though
3195[2016-07-08 6:44:34 PM | Edited 6:44:53 PM] HT☆Rock: /s/ and /lit/
3196[2016-07-08 6:45:09 PM] Collie Bro: yeah just those
3197[2016-07-08 6:45:18 PM] HT☆Rock: what sliders are you using for the other three quarters of the teams you're testing?
3198[2016-07-08 6:45:21 PM] Collie Bro: I used similar tictacs for the rest
3199[2016-07-08 6:45:31 PM] HT☆Rock: ummm lol?
3200[2016-07-08 6:45:40 PM] HT☆Rock: post the sliders, fam
3201[2016-07-08 6:46:01 PM] Collie Bro: these are /k/'s current sliders
3202[2016-07-08 6:46:14 PM] Collie Bro: PSCF3Many
3203[2016-07-08 6:46:27 PM] Collie Bro: FMA66Me
3204[2016-07-08 6:46:41 PM] Collie Bro: Nothing too wild or crazy
3205[2016-07-08 6:47:17 PM] HT☆Rock: /k/ isn't really built for that kind of close up tiki-taka
3206[2016-07-08 6:47:29 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /k/ isn't really built for anything
3207[2016-07-08 6:47:30 PM] HT☆Rock: this is why I said use the same teams and sliders that JB posted fam
3208[2016-07-08 6:47:42 PM] Collie Bro: I never saw you say that
3209[2016-07-08 6:47:44 PM] HT☆Rock: so we have data with a set of control teams
3210[2016-07-08 6:47:49 PM] HT☆Rock: I said it a bunch of times
3211[2016-07-08 6:47:50 PM] Collie Bro: shit
3212[2016-07-08 6:48:06 PM] HT☆Rock: I popped off on BGP the first or second day because of that
3213[2016-07-08 6:48:39 PM] Collie Bro: fine, post it all here so I can go and change shit
3214[2016-07-08 6:52:51 PM] Collie Bro: I'd also like to point out that nobody mentioned anything when I posted my -7-5-3 results using these teams
3215[2016-07-08 6:56:33 PM] Collie Bro: never mind, I went and found the tactics
3216[2016-07-08 8:34:54 PM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pVcv4/f753cb26c1.txt
3217group stage tests
3218[2016-07-08 8:35:14 PM] Collie Bro: alright, mine will be in a while
3219[2016-07-08 8:35:18 PM] Collie Bro: check back tonight
3220[2016-07-08 8:36:27 PM] JohnnyBravo: that seems really low scoring considering what changes were made
3221[2016-07-08 8:36:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: can you do the knockouts with no finishing nerf just to see?
3222[2016-07-08 8:36:58 PM] HT☆Rock: sure fam
3223[2016-07-08 8:37:04 PM] HT☆Rock: just let me watch PWG first
3224[2016-07-08 8:37:16 PM] JohnnyBravo: because you're still getting games like 5(4) 3-2 3(2) but shots as a total are down
3225[2016-07-08 8:37:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: so that makes me wonder if "finishing" has an ai impact we may not know about
3226[2016-07-08 8:37:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: like one that would make strikers even try shooting less
3227[2016-07-08 8:38:01 PM] Feedback: I wouldn't think finishing effects the frequency of shots taken though, just their accuracy
3228[2016-07-08 8:38:15 PM] HT☆Rock: it's pes man
3229[2016-07-08 8:38:19 PM] HT☆Rock: who the fuck knows anymore
3230[2016-07-08 8:38:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: I know right, but in NGE it says finishing affects something called the Scoring Instinct combined ability and that's what makes me wonder
3231[2016-07-08 8:39:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: "finishing" may not just be shot accuracy despite the name basically
3232[2016-07-08 8:39:25 PM] Feedback: Wouldn't surprise me
3233[2016-07-08 8:40:21 PM] Collie Bro: well that would make some sense considering finishing can also include how the shot is made, not just where it ends up
3234[2016-07-08 8:40:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I'm suspecting finishing isn't just shooting
3235[2016-07-08 8:40:58 PM] Collie Bro: not that the strikers in my tests have gotten the message
3236[2016-07-08 8:41:08 PM] Collie Bro: they're just rolling right on with 4-1 and 4-2 games
3237[2016-07-08 8:41:17 PM] JohnnyBravo: lel
3238[2016-07-08 8:41:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: if we're not certain about it I'd rather not touch it
3239[2016-07-08 8:41:30 PM] Collie Bro: ^
3240[2016-07-08 8:51:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: agree
3241[2016-07-08 9:26:31 PM] Collie Bro: look, why don't we just go back to the version and ruleset of 2011 Summer
3242[2016-07-08 9:26:42 PM] JohnnyBravo: boris makes every team?
3243[2016-07-08 9:26:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: sure
3244[2016-07-08 9:27:32 PM] HT☆Rock: well it'd be lear now
3245[2016-07-08 9:28:00 PM] Collie Bro: who?
3246[2016-07-08 9:28:18 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 9:27 PM] HT☆Rock: 
3247
3248<<< well it'd be lear nowSo then DF would be making every team? (^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:
3249[2016-07-08 9:28:38 PM] Collie Bro: he's had practice
3250[2016-07-08 9:28:59 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 8, 2016 9:28 PM] Feedback: 
3251
3252<<< So then DF would be making every team?t h r e e   s t a r s
3253[2016-07-08 9:29:27 PM | Edited 9:29:25 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 9:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
3254
3255<<< t h r e e   s t a r sbut enough about /mu/ after Winter 2017
3256[2016-07-08 9:38:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: >/wg/ gets retroactively purged from the cup's history
3257[2016-07-08 9:39:14 PM] JohnnyBravo:  /mu/ has always won the 2013 summer cup
3258[2016-07-08 9:39:41 PM] Feedback: I will accept this possibility as well.
3259[2016-07-08 9:39:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: f o u r s t a r s
3260[2016-07-08 9:40:01 PM] Feedback: t e n  s t a r s
3261[2016-07-08 9:40:12 PM] Collie Bro: still not as many as /mlp/ ^:)
3262[2016-07-08 9:40:20 PM] Collie Bro: thanks skype
3263[2016-07-08 9:40:23 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^: )
3264[2016-07-08 11:17:11 PM] Gannon Murphy: speng says 1.12
3265[2016-07-08 11:17:22 PM] Gannon Murphy: it's mandatory at this point
3266[2016-07-08 11:18:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: so that's... 10 to 0 votes in favor of 1.12
3267[2016-07-08 11:18:22 PM] Collie Bro: 11, I count double because I'm such a cool guy
3268[2016-07-08 11:18:30 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah
3269[2016-07-08 11:18:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: but I appreciate your enthusiasm
3270[2016-07-08 11:18:37 PM] Feedback: that's dubs tho, carma
3271[2016-07-08 11:18:42 PM] Feedback: which confirms it
3272[2016-07-08 11:18:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh right
3273[2016-07-08 11:18:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: 11 because God wills it
3274[2016-07-08 11:36:37 PM] Collie Bro: so what do you think, Portugal or france for the cup?
3275[2016-07-08 11:36:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
3276[2016-07-08 11:36:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: suicide
3277[2016-07-08 11:37:02 PM] Collie Bro: >not tsuuuuicide
3278[2016-07-08 11:37:07 PM] Gannon Murphy: >tfw no Wales vs Iceland
3279[2016-07-08 11:37:08 PM] JohnnyBravo: Give me the TSUUUUUU memes I guess
3280[2016-07-08 11:37:21 PM] Gannon Murphy: just another reminder we're in the bad ending
3281[2016-07-08 11:37:52 PM] Collie Bro: >there's a timeline where the final is Iceland vs Austria and the 4cc is on fifa
3282[2016-07-08 11:40:54 PM] Duke Silver: Ok, when's the big vote, I'm sleepy.
3283[2016-07-08 11:41:09 PM] Gannon Murphy: I vote for memes
3284[2016-07-08 11:41:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: We already had the vote
3285[2016-07-08 11:41:57 PM] JohnnyBravo: My pes14 torrent finishes soon
3286[2016-07-08 11:44:17 PM] Duke Silver: this is some voter suppression right here
3287[2016-07-08 11:44:44 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's what you get for being a minority
3288[2016-07-08 11:45:00 PM] Feedback: I think we need a weighted vote system
3289[2016-07-08 11:45:13 PM] Feedback: if you made the elite QFs you get 3 votes
3290[2016-07-08 11:45:20 PM] Feedback: Ro16? 2 votes
3291[2016-07-08 11:45:24 PM] Feedback: Anything else? 1 vote
3292[2016-07-08 11:45:35 PM] Collie Bro: I'd agree with this but I'm biased
3293[2016-07-08 11:46:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: if you have a star, 4 votes
3294[2016-07-08 11:46:11 PM] JohnnyBravo: One vote per star
3295[2016-07-08 11:46:20 PM] JohnnyBravo: Nobody else
3296[2016-07-08 11:46:28 PM] Feedback: I second this motion
3297[2016-07-08 11:46:35 PM] Collie Bro: One vote per goal scored against JohnnyBravo :^ )
3298[2016-07-08 11:46:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: Ok feedback what do you pick and why is it 1.12
3299[2016-07-08 11:47:01 PM] King Lear: Well I kind of thought we had 24 hours to make a decision, since as long as we're goon on the 9th at some point that's close enough.
3300[2016-07-08 11:47:02 PM] Feedback: 1.12 because it's literally the best ever
3301[2016-07-08 11:47:06 PM] Collie Bro: hang on I still have three games left in my test
3302[2016-07-08 11:47:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: Oh I thought it was today
3303[2016-07-08 11:47:44 PM] Duke Silver: I don't remember anything being said about having to ANNOUNCE any rules ever, just decide on them
3304[2016-07-08 11:47:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: Turns out its tomorrow
3305[2016-07-08 11:47:50 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 11:47 PM] King Lear: 
3306
3307<<< Well I kind of thought we had 24 hours to make a decision, since as long as we're goon on the 9th at some point that's close enough.to drop the memeing for a minute, I was under the impression that we'd have until the end of the 9th (by whatever time zone you felt was best)
3308[2016-07-08 11:48:18 PM] King Lear: Yeah the end of the 9th was when I assumed I had communicated the point of no return to be.
3309[2016-07-08 11:48:18 PM] Duke Silver: I thought the same thing but 6 or 7 hours ago people started talking deadlines and it got confusing
3310[2016-07-08 11:48:25 PM] Feedback: although since most of us here are Americans (no offense to any of the Euros here) I feel it would be best if we operated on an NA schedule
3311[2016-07-08 11:48:43 PM] Collie Bro: >no offense to any of the Euros here
3312[2016-07-08 11:48:49 PM] Collie Bro: what kind of an American are you
3313[2016-07-08 11:48:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: You can't offend non-people
3314[2016-07-08 11:49:10 PM] Feedback: When the chips are down I'm the biggest jingoist of anyone here outside of maybe Carma
3315[2016-07-08 11:49:20 PM] Feedback: but you've got to be nice.
3316[2016-07-08 11:49:21 PM] King Lear: Also announcing it a few hours in an inconvenient direction for some people doesn't really matter since you're not losing any real amount of the 3 weeks 'till the deadline.
3317[2016-07-08 11:49:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: Just announce it a week before to fuck over autists (^^:
3318[2016-07-08 11:50:08 PM] Collie Bro: let's use central time then
3319[2016-07-08 11:50:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: nobody's a bigger djangoist or whatever than me
3320[2016-07-08 11:50:54 PM] Gannon Murphy: : ^)
3321[2016-07-08 11:52:07 PM] Feedback: [July 8, 2016 11:50 PM] Gannon Murphy: 
3322
3323<<< djangoIMAGEN django unchained but only featuring carma playing everyone
3324[2016-07-08 11:52:19 PM] Feedback: "You had my curiosity but now you have my memes"
3325[2016-07-09 12:46:22 AM] Collie Bro: http://www.mediafire.com/download/7wf61dz442g7cye/750.docx
3326[2016-07-09 12:46:32 AM] Collie Bro: group stage done, would not recommend
3327[2016-07-09 12:48:09 AM] HT☆Rock: for what again?
3328[2016-07-09 12:48:24 AM] Collie Bro: -7-5-0 finishing, 80 keepers
3329[2016-07-09 12:49:10 AM] HT☆Rock: I don't like finishing drops either and I did a lesser one
3330[2016-07-09 12:49:16 AM] Gannon Murphy: ok
3331[2016-07-09 12:50:00 AM] Gannon Murphy: so: no finishing nerfs, can't go higher than like 81 for dpro, goalkeeper buffs are alright, nerfs golds are a no, what else?
3332[2016-07-09 12:50:11 AM] Collie Bro: can't do pes16
3333[2016-07-09 12:50:14 AM] Gannon Murphy: oh, all around buffed nonmedals are a no
3334[2016-07-09 12:50:57 AM] HT☆Rock: can't wake up
3335[2016-07-09 12:51:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: and wasn't it that nonmedal buffs of any kind were bad when combined with keeper buffs?
3336[2016-07-09 12:53:13 AM] HT☆Rock: keepers got buffed with nonmedals by default
3337[2016-07-09 12:53:28 AM | Edited 12:53:31 AM] Gannon Murphy: even with just dpro?
3338[2016-07-09 12:53:39 AM] HT☆Rock: Oh, nah
3339[2016-07-09 12:53:48 AM] HT☆Rock: I thought you meant nonmedal all stat buffs
3340[2016-07-09 12:54:01 AM] HT☆Rock: we did dpro buffs without also buffing keepers I think
3341[2016-07-09 12:54:19 AM] Gannon Murphy: hmm
3342[2016-07-09 12:54:30 AM] Gannon Murphy: so should we try dpro 80, keepers 80?
3343[2016-07-09 12:54:40 AM] HT☆Rock: no
3344[2016-07-09 12:54:50 AM] HT☆Rock: dpro without any other stat buff makes defenders retarded
3345[2016-07-09 12:54:56 AM] HT☆Rock: they try shit they don't have the stats for
3346[2016-07-09 12:55:09 AM] Gannon Murphy: I thought that was only on higher dpro buffs
3347[2016-07-09 12:55:19 AM] HT☆Rock: 80 is a higher dpro buff
3348[2016-07-09 12:55:27 AM] Gannon Murphy: I mean like 84+
3349[2016-07-09 12:55:34 AM] HT☆Rock: it's in general
3350[2016-07-09 12:55:49 AM] HT☆Rock: duke did 88, I did 81-2
3351[2016-07-09 12:55:52 AM] HT☆Rock: BGP did 80
3352[2016-07-09 12:56:01 AM] Collie Bro: How about 80 keeper/defender
3353[2016-07-09 12:56:15 AM] HT☆Rock: People didn't like that
3354[2016-07-09 12:56:32 AM] Collie Bro: Oh? What invitational was that
3355[2016-07-09 12:56:38 AM] HT☆Rock: stat compression made games slurpy, no stat compression made things long ball city
3356[2016-07-09 12:56:47 AM] HT☆Rock: we tested that on Wednesday, collie
3357[2016-07-09 12:56:56 AM] Collie Bro: oh never mind, carry on
3358[2016-07-09 12:57:12 AM] HT☆Rock: also we have /ag/L for that, but Harlock is iffy
3359[2016-07-09 12:57:27 AM] HT☆Rock: I think just buffing keepers might be the ticket
3360[2016-07-09 12:57:36 AM] Gannon Murphy: it might have to be
3361[2016-07-09 12:57:36 AM] HT☆Rock: given what I'm testing now
3362[2016-07-09 12:57:48 AM] Collie Bro: I'd vote for it
3363[2016-07-09 12:57:50 AM] Gannon Murphy: you on 80 right now?
3364[2016-07-09 12:57:51 AM] HT☆Rock: We've done fucking everything else except going to feefur at this point
3365[2016-07-09 12:58:05 AM] HT☆Rock: 80 for the group stage stuff I already posted, 82 now for KOs
3366[2016-07-09 12:58:11 AM] Gannon Murphy: ok
3367[2016-07-09 12:58:18 AM] Gannon Murphy: which is better
3368[2016-07-09 12:58:26 AM] Collie Bro: http://i.4cdn.org/f/help%20me.swf
3369[2016-07-09 12:58:43 AM] HT☆Rock: not sure yet
3370[2016-07-09 12:58:48 AM] Gannon Murphy: mmk
3371[2016-07-09 1:01:04 AM] Gannon Murphy: http://i.4cdn.org/f/How%20to%20fix%20league%20of%20legends%20vidya%20game.swf
3372[2016-07-09 1:01:31 AM] Collie Bro: thanks doc
3373[2016-07-09 1:10:46 AM] JohnnyBravo: Which ruleset will bring Harambe back
3374[2016-07-09 1:11:22 AM] Collie Bro: 7 niggas behind bars
3375[2016-07-09 1:58:16 AM] HT☆Rock: http://puu.sh/pVrUw/caed82957d.txt
3376[2016-07-09 1:58:24 AM] HT☆Rock: wew lads
3377[2016-07-09 1:58:47 AM] HT☆Rock: well we got goals down
3378[2016-07-09 1:58:56 AM] HT☆Rock: except for the /po/ asswhooping
3379[2016-07-09 1:59:36 AM] Collie Bro: looks presentable at least
3380[2016-07-09 2:00:30 AM] HT☆Rock: /s/ and /fit/ are bullshit in these tests man
3381[2016-07-09 2:00:52 AM | Edited 2:01:06 AM] HT☆Rock: but I think that either 82 or 80 keepers, no finishing nerf is the way to go
3382[2016-07-09 2:02:34 AM] Gannon Murphy: really makes you think huh
3383[2016-07-09 2:03:04 AM] Collie Bro: lets do 81
3384[2016-07-09 2:03:15 AM] Gannon Murphy: >yfw 81 ruins everything
3385[2016-07-09 2:03:23 AM] HT☆Rock: tuck me in
3386[2016-07-09 2:03:25 AM] HT☆Rock: let me die
3387[2016-07-09 3:03:16 AM] Myuer: tfw I couldn't open skype till now, thx microsof
3388[2016-07-09 3:03:19 AM] Myuer: Microsoft*
3389[2016-07-09 3:07:39 AM] Myuer: So 1.12 and fuck it?
3390[2016-07-09 8:03:04 AM] JohnnyBravo: I vote 80
3391[2016-07-09 8:03:22 AM] Collie Bro: same
3392[2016-07-09 8:03:45 AM] Collie Bro: hey, I was wondering where to put aesthetic folders?
3393[2016-07-09 8:04:11 AM] JohnnyBravo: in the a e s t h e t i c area
3394[2016-07-09 8:05:03 AM] Collie Bro: Do I create a folder somewhere or what
3395[2016-07-09 8:05:27 AM] JohnnyBravo: do you have a download folder
3396[2016-07-09 8:05:29 AM] Collie Bro: I'm a bit behind the times
3397[2016-07-09 8:05:39 AM] Collie Bro: yee
3398[2016-07-09 8:05:43 AM] JohnnyBravo: put it in there
3399[2016-07-09 8:05:50 AM] Collie Bro: alright
3400[2016-07-09 8:06:22 AM] JohnnyBravo: https://puu.sh/pVFUI/bba853d521.png
3401[2016-07-09 8:07:03 AM] JohnnyBravo: wait folders?
3402[2016-07-09 8:07:08 AM] JohnnyBravo: like not compiled to a cpk?
3403[2016-07-09 8:07:24 AM] Collie Bro: For example A Aesthetic Export
3404[2016-07-09 8:07:34 AM] JohnnyBravo: like the kind you put on a wiki?
3405[2016-07-09 8:07:47 AM] JohnnyBravo: those usually get compiled by an aesthetics guy
3406[2016-07-09 8:07:55 AM] Collie Bro: ah okay
3407[2016-07-09 8:08:01 AM] JohnnyBravo: and then there's a big download with everyone's aesthetics
3408[2016-07-09 8:08:05 AM] JohnnyBravo: plus balls, stadiums, etc
3409[2016-07-09 8:08:14 AM] JohnnyBravo: all as cpk's in a zipped file
3410[2016-07-09 8:08:21 AM] JohnnyBravo: and then you dump all those cpk's in download
3411[2016-07-09 8:08:27 AM] Collie Bro: now I feel less stupid for having to ask :^ )
3412[2016-07-09 8:14:20 AM] Myuer: >not having all placeholders
3413[2016-07-09 10:37:21 AM] Duke Silver: [July 9, 2016 12:55 AM] HT☆Rock: 
3414
3415<<< duke did 88, I did 81-2
3416[2016-07-09 10:37:36 AM] Duke Silver: I did 82, but it doesn't matter since I got the same thing you got at 81-82
3417[2016-07-09 4:52:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: how ready are we to decide tbh
3418[2016-07-09 4:52:58 PM] King Lear: Well I'm heading out in an hour and wont be back for ~8 hours so either now or later, it doesn't matter much.
3419[2016-07-09 4:54:28 PM] Collie Bro: I guess now would be better
3420[2016-07-09 4:54:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: mmm probably
3421[2016-07-09 4:55:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: https://www.strawpoll.me/10707654
3422[2016-07-09 4:55:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: alright let's get to it
3423[2016-07-09 4:55:57 PM] King Lear: One sec let me load up my proxies.
3424[2016-07-09 4:56:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok so we're basically down to a keeper buff and that's it, right?
3425[2016-07-09 4:56:59 PM] Collie Bro: where's the weighted vote where QF managers get more votes?
3426[2016-07-09 4:56:59 PM] King Lear: Height rules.
3427[2016-07-09 4:57:02 PM] Collie Bro: ;)
3428[2016-07-09 4:57:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah there seems to be a consensus for 1.04, 77/88/99 plus 80 overall keepers
3429[2016-07-09 4:57:11 PM] Background Pony: Im in support of the 6x175 rule
3430[2016-07-09 4:57:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: and 6x175
3431[2016-07-09 4:57:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I'll support 6x175
3432[2016-07-09 4:57:28 PM] Collie Bro: 6x175, is that height abuse?
3433[2016-07-09 4:57:40 PM] Collie Bro: I missed that part of the discussion tbh
3434[2016-07-09 4:57:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: no more 170 or 165 cm players required
3435[2016-07-09 4:57:42 PM] Gannon Murphy: although getting rid of manlets doesn't sit well with me for the teams that play manlets as a meme
3436[2016-07-09 4:57:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: you can go lower if you want
3437[2016-07-09 4:58:01 PM] Background Pony: its just the 170 and 165 manlets get scrapped, and you get six 175 players
3438[2016-07-09 4:58:08 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok let's hash out exactly what we want the height rules to say
3439[2016-07-09 4:58:09 PM | Edited 4:58:13 PM] King Lear: Collie you do realize the only person here who haven't made a QF is Duke.
3440[2016-07-09 4:58:29 PM] JohnnyBravo: we want people to be able to play 165s if there's a meme for it right
3441[2016-07-09 4:58:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: like manlet or minimalism
3442[2016-07-09 4:58:34 PM] Collie Bro: yes it's a meme
3443[2016-07-09 4:58:42 PM] Background Pony: You're allowed to make players shorter than 175 cm, but they will count as 175cm tall for the system (in case you prefer manlets)
3444[2016-07-09 4:58:50 PM] JohnnyBravo: ye
3445[2016-07-09 4:58:52 PM] Collie Bro: ^
3446[2016-07-09 4:58:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: ok
3447[2016-07-09 4:59:02 PM] Feedback: Sounds reasonable.
3448[2016-07-09 4:59:13 PM] King Lear: Perfect.
3449[2016-07-09 4:59:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: can we get confirmation that that can be put into AATF?
3450[2016-07-09 4:59:27 PM] Collie Bro: confirmed
3451[2016-07-09 4:59:36 PM] JohnnyBravo: collie "nbd" bro
3452[2016-07-09 4:59:42 PM] Collie Bro: I know all
3453[2016-07-09 4:59:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: lol
3454[2016-07-09 5:00:03 PM] King Lear: As someone who took an introductory programming course in a language that the AATF does not use it should be fuck easy if the person making it isn't retarded.
3455[2016-07-09 5:00:22 PM] Collie Bro: kinda what I went by really
3456[2016-07-09 5:00:39 PM] Background Pony: I think this would make the total height 4185cm or something, for non height abuse. Not sure about height abuse.
3457[2016-07-09 5:00:42 PM] Myuer: Ok
3458[2016-07-09 5:00:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: just some way to say like # < 175 = 175, right?
3459[2016-07-09 5:00:49 PM] Myuer: I think we are pretty even about the height.
3460[2016-07-09 5:00:53 PM] Myuer: Now what about stats?
3461[2016-07-09 5:00:58 PM] Collie Bro: 77/88/99
3462[2016-07-09 5:01:02 PM] Collie Bro: with 80 keepers
3463[2016-07-09 5:01:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: with 80 keepers
3464[2016-07-09 5:01:04 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
3465[2016-07-09 5:01:21 PM] Background Pony: also 1.04
3466[2016-07-09 5:01:28 PM] Collie Bro: and no harcuck
3467[2016-07-09 5:01:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: of course
3468[2016-07-09 5:01:41 PM] JohnnyBravo: seems redundant to us but moving to 1.04 is still a change
3469[2016-07-09 5:01:44 PM] Myuer: Idk, at this point I'd put all 80 not only 80 GK
3470[2016-07-09 5:01:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: from what's written
3471[2016-07-09 5:01:54 PM] JohnnyBravo: all 80 nonmedals kinda sucked
3472[2016-07-09 5:01:57 PM] Gannon Murphy: ^
3473[2016-07-09 5:01:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: 77 non-GKs was better
3474[2016-07-09 5:02:08 PM] Background Pony: jeah, that's why I added it. Shouldn't forget to mention it/
3475[2016-07-09 5:02:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: but for the gk's it has to be 80 in all stats to work right
3476[2016-07-09 5:02:23 PM] Collie Bro: ye
3477[2016-07-09 5:02:31 PM] Myuer: Dropping then Form 8 and remain standard forms?
3478[2016-07-09 5:02:41 PM] Collie Bro: no form 8 pls
3479[2016-07-09 5:02:43 PM | Edited 5:02:49 PM] Gannon Murphy: keep the old Form rules yes
3480[2016-07-09 5:02:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah, form 8 didn't seem to mean much and means less players used
3481[2016-07-09 5:03:19 PM] Background Pony: form 8 keepers might actually reduce performance, because youre more likely to see green keepers
3482[2016-07-09 5:03:25 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
3483[2016-07-09 5:04:59 PM] King Lear: Which height gets the boosted foot stats again?
3484[2016-07-09 5:05:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: the 175ers
3485[2016-07-09 5:05:22 PM] JohnnyBravo: make it optional to run 4/4
3486[2016-07-09 5:05:23 PM | Edited 5:05:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: (179cm and below)
3487[2016-07-09 5:05:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: you can run 2/4 on a 175 for instance
3488[2016-07-09 5:05:34 PM] Background Pony: everything below 180, basically.
3489[2016-07-09 5:05:46 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm down for it being optional
3490[2016-07-09 5:05:56 PM] King Lear: Yes this is something JB had asked me about a while back, making the stuff optional.
3491[2016-07-09 5:06:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: added effect of if you fuck it up, you don't get 4/4 as punishment
3492[2016-07-09 5:06:20 PM] Collie Bro: wouldn't 2/4 improve the strikers?
3493[2016-07-09 5:06:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: what are the foot stats called again?  Usage and ability or something?
3494[2016-07-09 5:06:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: usage/accuracy
3495[2016-07-09 5:07:02 PM] Gannon Murphy: right
3496[2016-07-09 5:07:02 PM] Background Pony: isnt 4/4 basically as good as it gets? I dont see why you would want to lower it. But sure, I guess.
3497[2016-07-09 5:07:23 PM] JohnnyBravo: I didn't like 4 usage on my fullbacks
3498[2016-07-09 5:07:25 PM] JohnnyBravo: in winter
3499[2016-07-09 5:07:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: well if you want your 179cm winger to favor his left foot, then you make him left footed and lower usage to 1
3500[2016-07-09 5:07:32 PM] JohnnyBravo: they wouldn't cross nearly as much as the 2/2's
3501[2016-07-09 5:07:37 PM] Myuer: [July 9, 2016 5:07 PM] JohnnyBravo: 
3502
3503<<< I didn't like 4 usage on my fullbacks
3504in winterMan, I knew it :^)
3505[2016-07-09 5:07:51 PM] JohnnyBravo: so I always started the two 180s lel
3506[2016-07-09 5:08:13 PM] Myuer: : ^)*
3507[2016-07-09 5:08:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: 4/4 plus outside curler is (mm)
3508[2016-07-09 5:08:59 PM] Collie Bro: I think I'd want to see some actual tests of 2/4 before I ok'd it
3509[2016-07-09 5:09:10 PM] Collie Bro: but if I'm in the minority here that's fine
3510[2016-07-09 5:09:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't see a reason to not have it optional; if you don't like it you don't have to use it
3511[2016-07-09 5:09:23 PM] King Lear: So you could make it 2/2 or 4/4 but not a split?
3512[2016-07-09 5:09:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: you've been able to "nerf" yourself in the past
3513[2016-07-09 5:09:38 PM] JohnnyBravo: like lower form or prowess
3514[2016-07-09 5:10:18 PM] Background Pony: "2/2 max for 180cm players or taller" would make more sense as a rule, then
3515[2016-07-09 5:10:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: yeah
3516[2016-07-09 5:10:36 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I like that
3517[2016-07-09 5:10:46 PM] JohnnyBravo: I suppose you could do 1/2 if you wanted even
3518[2016-07-09 5:10:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: more options
3519[2016-07-09 5:10:51 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
3520[2016-07-09 5:10:53 PM] JohnnyBravo: little reason to think that's harmful
3521[2016-07-09 5:10:58 PM] JohnnyBravo: but you never know I suppose
3522[2016-07-09 5:11:09 PM] Collie Bro: that's why I'm cautious
3523[2016-07-09 5:11:16 PM] Collie Bro: but I don't really think it'll do a whole lot
3524[2016-07-09 5:11:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: I doubt it's harmful personally
3525[2016-07-09 5:11:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: I don't know what you'd test about that even
3526[2016-07-09 5:11:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: that's just another juicy nugger for managers to figure out
3527[2016-07-09 5:13:16 PM] Background Pony: people might use 1/2 to set up some long range drive/swerve specialist or something
3528[2016-07-09 5:14:34 PM] JohnnyBravo: imo that's cool and unlikely to be gamebreaking, and there's the downside of being worse right in front of goal, but if there's opposition here I'm open to leaving it alone
3529[2016-07-09 5:14:44 PM] Gannon Murphy: I support it
3530[2016-07-09 5:14:50 PM] Collie Bro: just me I think, and only as a reflex desu
3531[2016-07-09 5:15:03 PM] Feedback: If it's optional I've got no reason to oppose it
3532[2016-07-09 5:15:03 PM] Background Pony: Im not saying it would be gamebreaking. Just how I think that could be useful.
3533[2016-07-09 5:15:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm already thinking about Nice Grill going down to 1/4 on the left wing (mm)
3534[2016-07-09 5:15:14 PM] Feedback: it could open up some new tactical options
3535[2016-07-09 5:15:15 PM] Background Pony: I think it would cause more trouble than its worth.
3536[2016-07-09 5:15:34 PM] Background Pony: not as a rule, just if you would use it. I mean.
3537[2016-07-09 5:15:52 PM] JohnnyBravo: 1/4 super le cut inside man
3538[2016-07-09 5:15:55 PM] JohnnyBravo: who needs a right foot
3539[2016-07-09 5:16:24 PM] Gannon Murphy: oh man
3540[2016-07-09 5:16:24 PM] Background Pony: why would you even need weak foot accuracy if you never use it
3541[2016-07-09 5:16:35 PM] JohnnyBravo: true
3542[2016-07-09 5:16:37 PM] Gannon Murphy: why wouldn't you
3543[2016-07-09 5:16:37 PM] JohnnyBravo: 1/1
3544[2016-07-09 5:16:48 PM] JohnnyBravo: but it's more usage that you'd look to alter imo
3545[2016-07-09 5:17:00 PM] Collie Bro: ^
3546[2016-07-09 5:17:14 PM] Collie Bro: Let's do it, it'll be something new for the anniversary
3547[2016-07-09 5:17:20 PM] Gannon Murphy: let's just say you can have usage at whatever you want, on all players, but 170 and below get 4 accuracy
3548[2016-07-09 5:17:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: I just think it's a cool option
3549[2016-07-09 5:17:43 PM] Gannon Murphy: so you can go 4/2 on a 189cm player
3550[2016-07-09 5:17:48 PM] Gannon Murphy: but not 4/4
3551[2016-07-09 5:18:00 PM] JohnnyBravo: nah make it so you can do whatever you want, capped at 2/2 at 180s and 4/4 below that
3552[2016-07-09 5:18:06 PM] JohnnyBravo: manlet incentive remains
3553[2016-07-09 5:18:10 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah
3554[2016-07-09 5:18:15 PM] JohnnyBravo: because that was the original purpose of different foot acc/usage
3555[2016-07-09 5:18:15 PM] Collie Bro: right
3556[2016-07-09 5:18:17 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm ok with whatever for that honestly
3557[2016-07-09 5:18:28 PM] Gannon Murphy: I'm just trying to think of ways to make it less confusing
3558[2016-07-09 5:19:11 PM] Collie Bro: Non-manlets get <= 2, manlets get <= 4
3559[2016-07-09 5:19:31 PM] Collie Bro: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3560[2016-07-09 5:19:39 PM] Gannon Murphy: yeah I'm good with that
3561[2016-07-09 5:19:41 PM] Myuer: This is how it's now
3562[2016-07-09 5:19:54 PM] Myuer: only forcing 2/2 or 4/4 basically
3563[2016-07-09 5:19:56 PM | Edited 5:20:06 PM] Background Pony: so, to sum up the changes:
3564- 1.04
3565- 77/88/99 (bronze/silver/gold) stats
3566- Keepers get all 80 stats
3567- Height bracket 165 and 170 removed. You get three extra players in the 175 bracket instead.
3568- Players may be made shorter than 175cm, but their height still counts as 175cm for the rules system.
3569- People are free to edit "weak foot usage/weak foot accuracy" to whatever value they want, but 180cm players and taller are still limited to 2/2 maximum.
3570[2016-07-09 5:20:29 PM] Collie Bro: yes
3571[2016-07-09 5:20:53 PM] Gannon Murphy: perfect
3572[2016-07-09 5:21:00 PM] Collie Bro: unless someone has something to add/subtract I think lear can post that whenever
3573[2016-07-09 5:22:24 PM] Myuer: Well, I think I'm the only one opposed to the 77, but useless to do a protest when I'm the only one.
3574[2016-07-09 5:22:50 PM] Collie Bro: I can do a token protest with you
3575[2016-07-09 5:22:58 PM] Collie Bro: so you don't feel left out
3576[2016-07-09 5:23:15 PM] Myuer: Don't worry, majority Always win
3577[2016-07-09 5:23:17 PM] Myuer: always*
3578[2016-07-09 5:24:45 PM] King Lear: Also this isn't actually a democracy. It's a Leartatorship.
3579[2016-07-09 5:24:55 PM] Gannon Murphy: Leartato
3580[2016-07-09 5:25:18 PM] Collie Bro: A learigarchy
3581[2016-07-09 5:27:33 PM] Myuer: sooo what is your final decision?
3582[2016-07-09 5:28:52 PM] King Lear: Seems good.
3583[2016-07-09 5:29:12 PM] JohnnyBravo: [July 9, 2016 5:27 PM] Myuer: 
3584
3585<<< sooo what is your final decision?http://www.strawpoll.me/10707654/r
3586[2016-07-09 5:29:20 PM] King Lear: So if a manlet is a medal they can go 8>= and non-medals get 4>=
3587[2016-07-09 5:29:39 PM] King Lear: No but this is the decision that it seems like has been reached fairly decisively.
3588[2016-07-09 5:30:03 PM] King Lear: I would only override if it was a decision by one vote or a tie or something.
3589[2016-07-09 5:30:06 PM] Gannon Murphy: BGP put them together quite succinctly imo
3590[2016-07-09 5:30:16 PM] Duke Silver: I can't vote from my phone but I would have voted "some other gay shit" on that poll, just want you to know. But I do agree with what bgp wrote
3591[2016-07-09 5:30:38 PM] HT☆Rock: ?
3592[2016-07-09 5:30:41 PM] King Lear: Wait I was just confusing footing and form.
3593[2016-07-09 5:30:46 PM] King Lear: For the numbers.
3594[2016-07-09 5:30:56 PM] King Lear: I'm retarded pls rape my face.
3595[2016-07-09 5:31:11 PM] Collie Bro: can we leak that?
3596[2016-07-09 5:31:31 PM] King Lear: Sure. As long as you say that the announcement will follow momentarily
3597[2016-07-09 5:31:43 PM] King Lear: I just need to pick out a wallpaper.
3598[2016-07-09 5:34:52 PM] King Lear: The deed is done.
3599[2016-07-09 5:35:06 PM] Collie Bro: does... does that mean we're free to go?
3600[2016-07-09 5:35:19 PM] King Lear: Get the fuck out of my face.
3601[2016-07-09 5:35:25 PM] Collie Bro: FREEDOM
3602[2016-07-09 5:35:30 PM] King Lear: But seriously guys thanks for all the help.
3603[2016-07-09 5:35:47 PM] Collie Bro: no problem, it was a pleasure at times
3604[2016-07-09 5:35:50 PM] King Lear: This is what we needed to do before Winter but better late than never.
3605[2016-07-09 5:35:52 PM] Gannon Murphy: mhmm
3606[2016-07-09 5:38:13 PM] Gannon Murphy: we can lower taller players' footedness to 1 though, right?
3607[2016-07-09 5:38:45 PM] Collie Bro: yeah
3608[2016-07-09 5:39:59 PM] Duke Silver: Can someone throw me a thread link?
3609[2016-07-09 5:40:10 PM] Myuer: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147861137/4ccg-eternal-shitposting-general#p147958648
3610[2016-07-09 5:40:10 PM] Background Pony: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147861137#p147958648
3611[2016-07-09 5:40:40 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm free
3612[2016-07-09 5:40:43 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm finally free
3613[2016-07-09 5:40:48 PM] HT☆Rock: (cwl)
3614[2016-07-09 5:43:55 PM] King Lear: http://boards.4chan.org/vg/thread/147861137#p147959393
3615Someone post their test cup.
3616[2016-07-09 5:44:38 PM] Duke Silver: Hey cool /4ccg/ is retardeds, I'd never have been able to guess
3617[2016-07-09 5:44:51 PM] Feedback: [July 9, 2016 5:44 PM] Duke Silver: 
3618
3619<<< Hey cool /4ccg/ is retardeds, I'd never have been able to guessmore at 11
3620[2016-07-09 5:51:23 PM] HT☆Rock: I'm banned for some reason
3621[2016-07-09 5:51:28 PM] HT☆Rock: someone yell at 4ccg for me
3622[2016-07-09 5:51:31 PM] Gannon Murphy: kek
3623[2016-07-09 5:51:40 PM] Gannon Murphy: show us the reason
3624[2016-07-09 5:53:15 PM] Myuer: should we post
3625[2016-07-09 5:53:20 PM] Myuer: the testing data too or?
3626[2016-07-09 5:53:26 PM] Gannon Murphy: nah
3627[2016-07-09 5:56:34 PM] Duke Silver: All of the testing data was posted last night, you could repost it until the cows come home and it'll get shit on
3628[2016-07-09 5:58:38 PM] HT☆Rock: just post a pastebin that says "imgay"
3629[2016-07-09 6:06:19 PM] Background Pony: what were the stat nerfs for height abuse players again?
3630[2016-07-09 6:06:30 PM] HT☆Rock: same as it ever was
3631[2016-07-09 6:06:33 PM] JohnnyBravo: -3, -4, -5?
3632[2016-07-09 7:27:24 PM] Smugleaf: Hold up, we brought in the -3, -4, -5 for height abuse?
3633[2016-07-09 7:27:45 PM] JohnnyBravo: Wasn't it already that
3634[2016-07-09 7:27:50 PM] Smugleaf: Wait
3635[2016-07-09 7:27:55 PM] Smugleaf: Was it
3636[2016-07-09 7:27:56 PM] JohnnyBravo: Height abuse rules are unchanged
3637[2016-07-09 7:28:18 PM] Smugleaf: No, it was based on medals
3638[2016-07-09 7:28:21 PM] JohnnyBravo: Over 189: 95 golds 84 silvers 77 keepers  74 everything else
3639[2016-07-09 7:28:24 PM] JohnnyBravo: Yes
3640[2016-07-09 7:28:26 PM] Smugleaf: I thought you meant it was based on heights
3641[2016-07-09 7:28:28 PM] JohnnyBravo: That's what I had meant
3642[2016-07-09 7:28:29 PM] Smugleaf: nvrmnd
3643[2016-07-09 7:28:30 PM] JohnnyBravo: No?
3644[2016-07-09 7:28:45 PM] Smugleaf: As in, 205 is -5
3645[2016-07-09 7:28:48 PM] Smugleaf: But that's cool ye
3646[2016-07-09 7:48:14 PM] Gannon Murphy: so are we allowing 155cm players now?
3647[2016-07-09 7:50:25 PM] Smugleaf: Guess so
3648[2016-07-09 8:03:58 PM] Gannon Murphy: cool
3649[2016-07-09 8:04:03 PM] Gannon Murphy: dunno why anyone would tho lel
3650[2016-07-09 8:04:34 PM] Gannon Murphy: what's cool about the new system is that a 160 or so cm player is going to look sooooooo small
3651[2016-07-09 8:06:40 PM] HT☆Rock: that's my fetish