cK0HZT6J

1--- Log opened Mon Jan 15 00:00:02 2018
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300:03 -!- baptist [~baptsk@rev-140-208.legacytubes.illyse.net] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
400:03 < cryptonix2> funny about qualcom
500:05 -!- Dunny [~paul.dunn@host86-161-53-236.range86-161.btcentralplus.com] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
600:05 < Dunny> evening
700:05 < Wally> hey Dunny :)
800:13 < Dunny> Wally :)
900:13 < Wally> How's life?
1000:13 < Dunny> life is good, thanks :)
1100:14 < Wally> Excellent/ You live in the US now yeah?
1200:14 < Dunny> no, the UK
1300:14 < Wally> Oh!
1400:14 < Wally> London?
1500:14 < Dunny> Scunthorpe
1600:14 < Wally> I'll be over your way in June :D
1700:14 < Dunny> oh, nice :)
1800:14 < Wally> Contains a c word
1900:14 < Wally> hah
2000:14 < Dunny> with any luck, I'll be over your way in August :D
2100:14 < urjaman> yeah i thought that was a joke
2200:14 < Wally> !!
2300:14 < Wally> Ironic.
2400:15 < Wally> Melb?
2500:15 < Dunny> urjaman: Scunthorpe was blocked by AOL for a while
2600:15 < Dunny> well, no, Tazmania actually
2700:15 < Wally> Ah Tassie
2800:15 < Wally> nice nice
2900:15 < Dunny> our next developer meeting will be there if we can pursuade the powers that be to fly us all there :)
3000:15 < Dunny> everyone had a nice xmas?
3100:16 < Wally> Yeah matr
3200:16 < Wally> *mate
3300:16 < Dunny> nice one
3400:16 < Wally> Come to Melb :P
3500:16 < Dunny> I got a lovely little bonus this year, so snagged some new tech :)
3600:16 < Wally> Nice! At least you're doing well with yourself
3700:16 < Dunny> yup. Life is good.
3800:17 < urjaman> yeah i used to live in a municipality named Pornainen
3900:17 < Wally> It'd be nice if we could all get together in London or something
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4100:17 < urjaman> that also got flagged as inappropriate sometimes
4200:17 < Wally> Finnish people are weird
4300:17 < Dunny> new laptop (i7 7820HK, 16GB, 2.5TB storage, 1070 GTX), switch + 3 games, rift + 2xtouch controllers :)
4400:17 < Wally> I'm getting some geography skills here. I know where most countries in Europe are now :|
4500:17 < Wally> Nice :D
4600:17 < Wally> No vive :|
4700:18 < Dunny> nah, got oculus cos I have to justify it through the business.
4800:18 < Wally> ah fair
4900:18 < Wally> at least you get new gear..
5000:18 < Wally> Work won't spend a cent on us
5100:19 < Wally> After my LSL I'll be thinking about a new job probably
5200:19 < Dunny> work made more money than they can handle this year, so spread the profit around through the team
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5400:19 < Dunny> let me know when you're in London and I'll pop down if I can.
5500:19 < Wally> Jealous.
5600:20 < Wally> We'll be in London for 4 days imho. I want to see the cursed child!
5700:20 < Wally> Rather than meet people individually (except two crazy french people)
5800:20 < Wally> We* want to see the cursed child
5900:21 < Dunny> my child is cursed? O.o
6000:21 < Dunny> I mean, he can be a bit of a handful but... :)
6100:21 < Wally> haha. Nah the Harry Potter show
6200:21 < Dunny> ahh, that. Not a fan personally, I'm kinda too old.
6300:21 < Dunny> here's what I'm working on right now: https://s13.postimg.org/vbjtrbt0l/Image16.png
6400:22 < Wally> Yeah. It's a live play.
6500:22 < Wally> egad that looks cool
6600:22 < Wally> I wish my job required more compiling
6700:22 < Wally> and less fixing word issues
6800:22 < Dunny> it is cool.
6900:22 < Dunny> I'm working on those blue bars. It's a fun little project.
7000:22 < Wally> I compiled my first thing in a while yesterday. Realised how much I miss doing that crap
7100:23 < Wally> They look cool :D
7200:23 < Dunny> I find that getting started is the hardest part - once I have the basics down it's much more fun.
7300:23 < Wally> yeah
7400:24 < Dunny> that whole program is a custom VCL for windows. All software, every single freakin' pixel including the alpha blending and stuff. it's mad.
7500:24 < Wally> When i get my UK phone number i'll throw it your way in case I am not on IRC.
7600:24 < Dunny> okies
7700:24 < Wally> Not doing the Mac stuff anymore?
7800:24 < Wally> I really need to overhaul all the crap I have. Using Mac OS is boring these days
7900:24 < MrJones> Wally: did I mention write in some hacky javascript web app now? :D
8000:24 < Dunny> yeah, I'll be porting this to mac when I'm done in windows
8100:24 < Wally> MrJones yes you did
8200:24 < MrJones> *I write
8300:24 < Wally> Ah nice
8400:25 < Wally> I can't VR on my current machine, my GF always uses my other machine
8500:25 < MrJones> Wally: did I also show the dark mode yet? :O https://www.homeofjones.net/temp/editor2.png
8600:25 < Dunny> there's not even any bitmaps in that - it's all built on the fly every frame.
8700:25 < Wally> MrJones is turning into JDTAY
8800:25 < MrJones> why
8900:25 < MrJones> because I forget things I said? that's not new :D
9000:25 < Wally> :P
9100:25 < urjaman> the ":O" sounded like him
9200:25 < Dunny> what happened to him? He's flounced from IRC, I see from the forum.
9300:25 < Wally> Dunny that's convenient
9400:25 < MrJones> pls I've been :O'ing since forever
9500:26 < Wally> Nah he's still here, Celtica just +o'd and he got the message
9600:26 < Wally> He started talking about some random new project he's "working" on
9700:26 < Dunny> oh, right.
9800:26 < urjaman> Wally: did you notice the part after that
9900:26 < MrJones> well mine actually exists >:o
10000:26 < Dunny> not his lua thing anymore?
10100:26 < Wally> yeah urjaman, that was gold
10200:27 < Dunny> you got ops then urjaman? What did you do with them?
10300:27 < Wally> Dunny, he doesn't seem to have any defined project. I'm a bit like that lately. Got too many things on
10400:27 < Dunny> I need to get back to specbas. and then sell it.
10500:27 < Wally> I need to get back to whatever language I was coding in and get my skills up
10600:27 < Wally> I kinda got a bit lost last year as work was overwhelming me
10700:28 < urjaman> Dunny: i did nothing ;P
10800:28 < Dunny> then wtf was he bangin on about?
10900:28 < urjaman> lol he talked about that on the forums? xD
11000:28 < Wally> Dunny https://i.imgur.com/tzYQMbd.png
11100:29 < Wally> Oh he talked about your Op status wow
11200:29 < MrJones> link?
11300:29 < Wally> https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/who-gave-urjaman-op-status-in-the-pyra-irc-channel.82381/
11400:30 < Wally> he's talking about Celtica heh
11500:30 < MrJones> did he confuse the two? lol
11600:30 < MrJones> also why does he bother evildragon with it
11700:30 < Wally> I dunno.
11800:30 < MrJones> like, what on earth. seems a bit shitty to do
11900:31 < Wally> Yeah. It's a bit rude
12000:31 < Wally> I'll deal with it
12100:31 < MrJones> ok
12200:31 < MrJones> also he's overreacting hugely, as usual
12300:31 < MrJones> nobody even kicked him. jesus
12400:31 < Dunny> Ok, now I'm baffled.
12500:31 < MrJones> he's like "OH MY GOD OSMEONE HINTED SOMETHING WITH OP I MUST CRY AND NEVER RETURN TO IRC"
12600:31 < MrJones> "ALSO HOW DARE U"
12700:31 < Wally> maybe we just kickban the idiot
12800:31 < MrJones> I dunno
12900:31 < MrJones> I have been trying to make you not do that
13000:32 < Dunny> so Celtica got ops, he got scared and legged it?
13100:32 < MrJones> but after that post I'm no longer so sure x.x
13200:32 < urjaman> Dunny: PM
13300:32 < MrJones> Dunny: yea, but then made this post in "ask evildragon"!! kinda complaining about it
13400:32 < Wally> I'm gunna make it a week ban I reckon
13500:32 < MrJones> like, what even
13600:32 < Wally> oh joy i'm typing words like NEVER in caps like kumaki
13700:33 < dTal> oh lord
13800:33 < Dunny> you'll be growing tits next
13900:33 < Wally> lol
14000:33 < MrJones> mantits or nice womanly tits?
14100:33 < Dunny> depends on how far he takes the transformation
14200:33 < MrJones> is mantits the earlier or later step of it? :D
14300:33 < Wally> There's been a few different people on the forums lately
14400:34 < Dunny> When I was in the hospital, we had a student male nurse who left, and came back as a gurl.
14500:34 < MrJones> hawt
14600:34 < Dunny> eh had extremely nice tits when he came back.
14700:34 < Dunny> he insisted on showing them  to me.
14800:34 < Wally> Actually i'm going to leave him stir
14900:34 < MrJones> I think you might wanna call her "she"
15000:34 < dTal> shouldn't you say "she"
15100:34 < Wally> Moving the post to off-topic
15200:34 < Dunny> well yeah, he is now she when we talk.
15300:35 < MrJones> like it or not, not doing so is considered intentionally rude
15400:35 < Dunny> but I still see the guy, so have to be careful.
15500:35 < MrJones> *girl
15600:35 < Wally> I don't get this whole thing
15700:35 < MrJones> oh you mean you kinda still see the male in him, I see
15800:35 < Dunny> yeah
15900:35 < dTal> I know a he who claims to want to be a she
16000:35 < Dunny> it's hard not to, we worked together for a year
16100:35 < dTal> I can't bring myself to refer to them as such to third parties
16200:35 < MrJones> well from my experience it fades if you force yourself to get used to it
16300:35 < Dunny> my eldest son is dating a she who is working on becoming a he.
16400:36 < MrJones> them?? what
16500:36 < Wally> urjaman congrats I think you finally rid of the problem
16600:36 < Wally> and you did nothing
16700:36 < MrJones> dTal: using "them" is even more rude.. (if they haven't requested that pronoun)
16800:36 < Dunny> like on tumblr you see stuff like xir/xhe
16900:36 < MrJones> you shouldn't actually discuss pronouns. just use what the person wants, done
17000:36 < MrJones> it's that easy
17100:36 < Wally> Schlee and schlim
17200:36 < dTal> I don't particularly feel a debt of politeness to this person
17300:37 < MrJones> maybe, but it's kinda like using gay as a slur
17400:37 < Dunny> yeah, but you have to ask what the pronouns should be
17500:37 < MrJones> it's dragging down all of them
17600:37 < Wally> although MrJones it's sometimes hard to well..
17700:37 < Wally> be right
17800:37 < Wally> as they'll correct you
17900:37 < MrJones> Dunny: I wouldn't go so far. but stick to it if they tell you
18000:37 < Dunny> aye
18100:37 < dTal> maybe I'll start using "she" but doing air quotes
18200:37 < MrJones> dTal: why? that sounds like an asshole move
18300:37 < MrJones> do they deserve it? or why would you do that
18400:38 < Dunny> Roz, my son's ... gf ... was like that. I asked "so I know you wanna be a guy, but what do you identify as right now?" and he said "either"
18500:38 < Dunny> so that's fine.
18600:39 < Wally> Do transgender people have psychiatric assessment before they begin transitioning?
18700:39 < Dunny> mind you, my son turning up with blue and pink hair was a bit of a shock, but he really carries it off.
18800:39 < dTal> because 1) this person has walked into my life and made it hell 2) I don't believe they have gender dysphoria, more likely borderline/histrionic personality disorder and the trans thing is an attention seeking move, like everything else they do
18900:39 < MrJones> Wally: depends on the country. I don't think in most they do much
19000:39 < Dunny> it's optional here
19100:39 < Wally> I think it should be compulsary
19200:39 < MrJones> why?
19300:39 < MrJones> I think you are wrong
19400:39 < dTal> I am polite in person, but asking me to "respect" a pile of bullshit to third parties is too much
19500:39 < Wally> Major change in life.
19600:39 < MrJones> so?
19700:39 < Dunny> I'm pretty careful these days since the episode at work.
19800:39 < MrJones> you realize compulsory psych stuff NEVER works? it's just an idiotic idea
19900:39 < Wally> MrJones, not that i disagree with what peopl ecan do with their body. They just need a second opinion perhaps?
20000:40 < MrJones> and rude as well. leave people to their own choices
20100:40 < MrJones> Wally: no, what they need is the *option* to it. offering it to them prominently for free is good
20200:40 < MrJones> requiring it is super bad
20300:40 < Wally> True yes
20400:40 < MrJones> respect people's choices, even if they are bad
20500:40 < urjaman> yeah, required stuff like that is horribke
20600:40 < Dunny> we had a case brought onto the ward - big guy, full beard, manly odour.
20700:40 < urjaman> *horrible
20800:40 < Dunny> put him in the men's bay with other blokes
20900:40 < Wally> There's worse things people can do
21000:40 < dTal> I don't think everyone should have unrestricted free access to sex-change surgery
21100:40 < MrJones> yea, *especially* for psychiatric treatment. if the patient feels like they are forced to do it, you will be getting absolutely nowhere.
21200:41 < urjaman> it's a place for horrible people to scare off people who are already vulnerable
21300:41 < MrJones> it's like, throwing money into a otilet
21400:41 < Dunny> young nurse went to wash him, came out terrified that his cock had fallen off or something
21500:41 < MrJones> and yea, the scaring off part too.
21600:41 < Dunny> turns out he was biologically a woman.
21700:41 < Wally> MrJones oh it'd be free here. We have decent medicare
21800:41 < MrJones> dTal: maybe, but that should apply if you have known mental issues. you shouldn't get a forced evaluation just because of it
21900:41 < Dunny> ...with a 9" black dildo in her overnight bag.
22000:41 < MrJones> Wally: I meant for society.
22100:41 < Wally> Society. pfft
22200:41 < MrJones> Wally: it won't work, hence it's wasted money
22300:41 < Dunny> nurse though it was soap on a rope at first.
22400:42 < MrJones> Wally: if you force a treatment that will never work, you're throwing money into a toilet
22500:42 < Wally> Anyway, people are opinionated arseholes
22600:42 < Wally> yeah MrJones
22700:42 < MrJones> and compulsary psych treatment 99% never work
22800:42 < MrJones> it's a waste of money
22900:42 < MrJones> it just kinda comes with the thing
23000:42 < MrJones> unless you trust your psych person, you're not gonna open up to anything
23100:42 < Dunny> yeah, it's like trying cure gay with aversion therapy
23200:42 < MrJones> it's not like you can stick a finger in someone's brain and force them to be psyched
23300:42 < Dunny> you just create a psychotic individual.
23400:42 < Wally> MrJones perhaps psych is the wrong word
23500:42 < dTal> sure it is, you can brainwash someone for sure
23600:43 < Wally> Perhaps more of someone to speak to about why they want to transition
23700:43 < dTal> plenty of people have been forcibly psychologically remoulded
23800:43 < MrJones> dTal: yes but it's really hard if they don't want to
23900:43 < dTal> whether it's ethical is a seperate issue
24000:43 < MrJones> dTal: and it takes a long time. certainly not something you'd want to do to a trans person
24100:43 < MrJones> and nothing you could do in a few sittings
24200:43 < Wally> It's like religion I guess
24300:43 < MrJones> especially if the person is unwilling and aware
24400:43 < Wally> tattoos, excessive alcoholism, drugs
24500:44 < Wally> anyway i've stopped giving a shit
24600:44 < MrJones> that's actually the best way to deal with it
24700:44 < MrJones> if you do it in a non-rude way. just call them what they want to be called and don't interfere otherwise
24800:44 < dTal> pretty soon we'll all be talking in VR through facebook instead of real life anyway
24900:44 < MrJones> nobody requires you to like it
25000:44 < MrJones> true!
25100:44 < Wally> dTal oh god
25200:44 < MrJones> and that sounds like fun
25300:44 < MrJones> :D
25400:44 < MrJones> pls Wally
25500:44 < dTal> just pick whatever avatar you want, done
25600:44 < MrJones> like u wouldnt like having a virtual wobbly cyber butt
25700:45 < Wally> No thx. Stay away from me :P
25800:45 < Wally> VR is cool
25900:45  * MrJones projects huge 3d butts onto Wally 's screen
26000:45 < urjaman> :D
26100:45 < Wally> facebook is really shit though.
26200:45 < Wally> Zuck said he'd be fixing it
26300:45 < dTal> Oculus is a really mixed product
26400:45 < MrJones> Dunny: thanks for sharing anyway :D but I recommend sticking to the pronoun. not doing so can really upset those folks, and they have enough to deal with (no matter if you consider it a disorder or not, you can't stop them from doing the transition anyway)0
26500:45 < dTal> the hardware is lovely
26600:45 < Wally> There's a lot of SAP jobs around here.. but SAP is vomit
26700:46 < dTal> the software is the worst sort of bullshit
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26900:46 < dTal> MrJones: can I deliberately use the wrong pronoun in order to piss them off and make them avoid me?
27000:46 < MrJones> are you asking whether that works? for sure
27100:46 < MrJones> is it ethical? hell no
27200:47 < urjaman> maybe you should call them normal insults ...
27300:47 < MrJones> dTal: at least find something fair to insult them with. poking at people's weakest links is really nasty
27400:47 < MrJones> yup
27500:47 < dTal> fair point
27600:47 < MrJones> it's just kinda petty to intentionally use the wrong pronouns to upset a trans person
27700:47 < MrJones> but sure, it works x.x
27800:47 < buZz> we just call everyone it
27900:48 < dTal> I guess it's not the trans part that's annoying
28000:48 < urjaman> buZz: that's what people normally do in finnish btw :P
28100:48 < dTal> it's the fucking fake boobs left on my fucking coffee table
28200:48 < buZz> :)
28300:48 < urjaman> everything is an it
28400:48 < buZz> urjaman: you clearly are living in the future
28500:48 < MrJones> dTal: who hurt you? lol
28600:48 < urjaman> not if you're being proper, but in the day to day ...
28700:48 < Wally> dTal must have some bad experiences.
28800:49 < dTal> you have no goddamned idea
28900:49 < Wally> :P
29000:49 < dTal> it's my housemate's, er, "girlfriend"
29100:49 < dTal> I don't even think he likes her anymore
29200:49 < buZz> lol watching a gpdwin2 review, and 'linux supports it there BUT the touchscreen is offset!'
29300:49 < buZz> lol
29400:50 < buZz> yeah dont calibrate buddy, just keep being annoyed
29500:50 < buZz> rofl
29600:55 < Wally> haha
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29800:56 < Wally> For some reason i'm not excited for the win 2
29900:56 < Wally> BlueMaxima  btw it's almost order time
30000:56 < Wally> luke-jr
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30200:57 < Wally> Poor dTal
30300:58 < Wally> There's definately some crazy people out there
30400:58 < Wally> I think Jordan from axis of awesome is a good example of not crazy
30501:00 < luke-jr> ??
30601:00 < Wally> Isn't the GPD Win 2 pre order starting now?
30701:00 < Wally> BlueMaxima?
30801:00 < luke-jr> in 60 minutes I think
30901:03 < Wally> ah right
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31101:07 < Wally> Speaking of the noisy fucker
31201:08 < JDTAY> :0
31301:11 < JDTAY> I just came in to pay my last respects to Pyra before GPD Win 2 annihilates it in less than an hour. :P
31401:11 < Wally> .
31501:11 < Wally> Really?
31601:11 < buZz> farewell JDTAY
31701:11 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [+o Wally] by ChanServ
31801:11 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [+b *!~quassel@cpe-2606-A000-6D50-2D00-8C82-F8AE-D1F3-253C.dyn6.twc.com] by Wally
31901:11 -!- JDTAY was kicked from #dragonbox-pyra by Wally [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
32001:11 <@Wally> bye
32101:11 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [-o Wally] by ChanServ
32201:12 < Wally> That's it.
32301:12 < buZz> boowm
32401:12 < buZz> ~pyra
32501:12 < buZz> >pyra
32601:12 < Wally> Pyra is life
32701:12 < buZz> <pyra
32801:12 < phanboet> Total preorders: 1099 [799 mobile (72%); 26x 2GB (2%), 1073x 4GB (97%)] {Stand2GB: 15, Stand4GB: 285, US2GB: 2, US4GB: 237, EU2GB: 9, EU4GB: 551}, 46 pre pre-orders left @ 2018-01-15 02:00:12 CET - http://p.rdw.se/pyra-preorder.html
32901:12 < Wally> That solves everything
33001:12 < Wally> right urjaman?
33101:12 < buZz> lets see if preorders will drop :)
33201:12 < urjaman> lol
33301:13 < Wally> There you go Dunny
33401:13 < Wally> Proof :P
33501:14 < dTal> ah, back to the quiet life is it?
33601:14 < buZz> JDTAY is trans?
33701:15 < Wally> LOL
33801:15 < urjaman> wat
33901:15 < Wally> Back to real discussions
34001:15 < Wally> We need that 3D driver.
34101:15 < buZz> or better 2D games
34201:16 < dTal> should have an official VR headset for Pyra, seeing as how it won't fit in any of the smartphone ones
34301:16 < Wally> Nah we need Siri :P
34401:16 < Wally> "hey Pyra"
34501:17 < dTal> pretty sure that's anathema to the entire Pyra concept
34601:17 < Wally> :D
34701:17 < dTal> I mean, it'd be cool if you could do all the voice recognition locally
34801:17 < buZz> dTal: did you see that aprilfools of pocketchip
34901:17 < dTal> no
35001:18 < Wally> We need a proper photo library application that works with local syncing
35101:18 < dTal> Poculus CHIP?
35201:18 < buZz> http://pockulus.getchip.com/
35301:18 < buZz> yeah :P
35401:18 < Wally> Dunny do you use Photos.app at all?
35501:18 < buZz> i tried that virtualboy emu with a google cardboard, kinda fun :)
35601:19 < TrashyMG|omap5> think Dunny only used zx spectrums and Amigas.
35701:19 < Wally> heh
35801:19 < Wally> It'd be nice if we had a decent open photo library that works
35901:19 < Wally> oh and also does videos
36001:19 < buZz> shotwell?
36101:19 < buZz> i have ~20 year of photos in shotwell
36201:20 < Wally> Toich?
36301:20 < Wally> Touch?
36401:20 < buZz> i'll touch? you
36501:20 < buZz> :P
36601:20 < Wally> can you sync between devices?
36701:20 < buZz> no clue, do you have rsync?
36801:20 < Wally> yeah
36901:21 < buZz> then probably yes
37001:23 < Wally> Shotwell isn
37101:23 < Wally> 't avaliable on macOS it seems
37201:23 < buZz> whats a macos
37301:24 < Wally> Doesn't really matter I guess
37401:24 < buZz> oh, thats the native stuff you get prior to upgrading to linux?
37501:24 < buZz> i thought that was just for playing mp3s
37601:24 < Wally> lol
37701:25 < Wally> if I can utilize my Nas more
37801:25 < Wally> that'd be cool
37901:25 < Wally> It'd be nice if Apple added Linux support for iTunes
38001:26 < buZz> why?
38101:26 < Wally> I use Apple Music
38201:26 < buZz> i can already play mp3 on linux
38301:26 < buZz> Wally: the beatles?
38401:26 < Wally> heh
38501:26 < Wally> I'm over paying for music things
38601:26 < buZz> then why use itunes?
38701:26 < buZz> $ du -sh /media/mp3/
38801:26 < buZz> 140G    /media/mp3/
38901:26 < Wally> GF and I use it together
39001:27 < Wally> I could put Debian on my MacBook Pro I guess
39101:28 < Wally> I could dual boot this machine too really
39201:29 < Wally> I suspect when I get my Pyra my CPU requirements will drop and I can just get a decent monitor to compensate for the iMac heh
39301:29 < buZz> yeah, some nice 14" CRT <3
39401:29 < Wally> hsh
39501:29 < Wally> I have a phillips 1080p monitor here
39601:30 < buZz> CRT?
39701:30 < Wally> wow
39801:30 < Wally> stop pushing my buttons buZz
39901:30 < Wally> :P
40001:30 < buZz> :P
40101:30 < buZz> i got a 'new' CRT the other day
40201:30 < Wally> Nice
40301:30 < buZz> super cute little 6" color CRT
40401:30 < buZz> i think i'm gonna stuff a raspberry pi into the case
40501:31 < buZz> or something similar
40601:31 < Wally>   yay
40701:33 < Wally> My photo library is 40 odd gb buZz :P
40801:34 < Wally> Mostly my video library really
40901:34 < Wally> Anyway the linux project can wait
41001:34 < buZz> lets see
41101:34 < buZz> havent looked how big my photo lib is
41201:35 < Wally> That'
41301:35 < Wally> s photos and videos really
41401:35 < buZz> i probably have >1TB of video
41501:35 < Wally> https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/who-gave-urjaman-op-status-in-the-pyra-irc-channel.82381/
41601:35 < Wally> okay i'll stop whinging now
41701:35 < buZz> rofl
41801:36 < Wally> I guess my biggest issue is how the "cloud" backup crap works
41901:36 < buZz> 37GB just photos
42001:36 < buZz> i dont use clouds
42101:36 < buZz> ah, just 660GB in videos
42201:36 < Wally> Awesome
42301:37 < dTal> you should definitely download another 6 gb of videos
42401:37 < Wally> Oh this is just family crap
42501:37 < Wally> 200GB of movies
42601:37 < buZz> i probably already have, just havent moved to NAS yet :)
42701:37 < Wally> 112Gb of TV shows
42801:37 < Wally> Probably like 3TB of ROMS
42901:38  * Wally wants a storinator eventually
43001:38 < buZz> i got a simple 2disk synology last year
43101:38 < Wally> Next drives i'll get for this NAS is 10TB drives I reckon
43201:38 < buZz> the DS216j
43301:38 < Wally> $488 each
43401:38 < buZz> just stuffed 2x 8TB in it this month
43501:39 < Wally> Can't afford that right now
43601:39 < buZz> 190 euro a piece
43701:39 < Wally> heh I can't even remember what drives I hvae in mine. I think I got 4TB
43801:39 < buZz> ~292 aud
43901:39 < Wally> 3TB
44001:39 < Wally> Nice!
44101:39 < Wally> I have 4 x 3TB drives in a raid-z
44201:39 < buZz> those 'seagate archive' disks
44301:39 < Wally> HGST crap
44401:39 < Wally> backing this up would be a shit
44501:40 < buZz> hmhm, i only backup the private keys really
44601:40 < buZz> once those get worth enough, you'll want to keep em safe ;)
44701:40 < Wally> I have my mothers Mp3 library on here too which weighs at about 150GB
44801:41 < buZz> nice, your mom has more mp3s than me :P
44901:41 < Wally> 128kb/s
45001:43 < buZz> really should spend more time cleaning this up :P
45101:43 < buZz> > /media/backups/other-1tb/backups/ws1-homedir/buzz/nurdspacebackups
45201:43 < buZz> lol
45301:43 < Wally> ouch
45401:43 < Wally> I bet zmatt is in there somewhere
45501:44 < buZz> 1.1TB in /media/backups :P
45601:44 < dTal> heh, love paths like that
45701:45 < Wally> My NAS is taking it's sweet time to calculate the folder size :P
45801:45 < buZz> oh hey , i got a new small computer
45901:45 < buZz> https://www.pokitto.com/ <-- this one
46001:46 < buZz> i so hope ED would do something similar like pokitto for the pyra cases :D
46101:46 < Wally> haha
46201:46 < Wally> poor EvilDragon
46301:46 < buZz> not the Lego stuff, but the customizations
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46601:52 < Wally> NONE OF IT
46701:53 < buZz> boo :)
46801:54 < buZz> well maybe just throw money at ED
46901:54 < buZz> that probably works :P
47001:54 < Wally> :D
47101:54 < Wally> also
47201:54 < Wally> it's weird how we're able to have a conversation now :P
47301:55 < comradekingu> not so quick
47401:55 < Wally> yeah I know comradekingu.
47501:56 < Wally> Could have been quicker
47601:56 < Wally> I think i'm gunna watch Futurama on loop all the way to europe
47701:56 < comradekingu> what disks are good for 2.5" raiding
47801:56 < Wally> HGST stuff is good
47901:57 < comradekingu> thought you said that was GGgate?
48001:57 < comradekingu> which i thought was western
48101:57 < Wally> Toshiba / HGST apparently are still the most reliable
48201:58 -!- duckhunt [~duckhunt@host213-1-35-162.range213-1.btcentralplus.com] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
48301:58 < comradekingu> did the gas stuff pan out for HGST?
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48502:00 < dTal> !duck
48602:00 < duckhunt> QUACK!     \_O< shrei
48702:01 < duckhunt> QUACK!                       \_O< h srei
48802:01 < dTal> shire
48902:01 < duckhunt> QUACK!                         \_O< he sri
49002:01 < dTal> hires
49102:01 < duckhunt> QUACK!                      \_O< hei sr
49202:01 -!- duckhunt [~duckhunt@host213-1-35-162.range213-1.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.))]
49302:01 < Wally> Cripes teh Win 2
49402:01 < Wally> Already at $117k
49502:01 < Wally> $125
49602:01 < dTal> hey that's new
49702:01 < Wally> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win-2-handheld-game-console-for-aaa-games-laptop#/
49802:01 < Wally> dTal i'll never complain about your duck game again
49902:02 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [+o Wally] by ChanServ
50002:02 <@Wally> your bot got stabbed RIP
50102:02 <@Wally> We've had a few spammers in #openpandora
50202:02 -!- Sigyn was kicked from #dragonbox-pyra by Wally [Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.]
50302:02 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [-o Wally] by ChanServ
50402:02 < dTal> Hah wow
50502:02 < Wally> Surprised that JDTAY didn't trigger the bot
50602:03 < buZz> huh?
50702:03 < dTal> I am curious as to how it identified it
50802:03 < buZz> Wally: sigyn is just here to ban those spamming nodes
50902:03 < Wally> buZz yeah also to ban duckhunt :P
51002:03 < buZz> ?
51102:03 < buZz> rofl
51202:03 < Wally> dTal's annoying bot ;P
51302:03 < buZz> i like how he went straight for server kill :P
51402:03 < Wally> I guess repeatitive characters dTal
51502:03 < Wally> yeah
51602:04 < dTal> Ah, the "QUACK!"
51702:04 < Wally> What's the win 2 at now
51802:04 < Wally> $168k
51902:04 < Wally> I wish the Pyra worked out earlier for ED
52002:05 < megaminxwin> well i was planning to download the full joy of painting series
52102:05 < dTal> at least it retains its unique selling points
52202:05 < megaminxwin> but there are over 400 episodes
52302:05 < megaminxwin> over 90 *gigabytes*
52402:06 < buZz> i like how gpdwin2 goes from 6" to 5.5" in just the first 20 lines of text :P lol
52502:06 < dTal> these new devices are fast, and very slick, but they don't have modems/GPS
52602:06 < buZz> does it go lower if i scroll further?
52702:06 < BlueMaxima> probably means "six inch top half" then "5.5 inch screen"
52802:06 < buZz> lol, it got 6" again further down
52902:06 < luke-jr> freaking Indiegogo logged me out
53002:07 < luke-jr> at least they're not going fast
53102:07 < buZz> The high-performance handheld game console that can run AAA games is finally here! Runs on Widows10.
53202:07 < Wally> 338 of 1000 sold in ~10 minutes
53302:07 < buZz> sweet
53402:07 < Wally> they're going fast :P
53502:07 < buZz> i love me some widows
53602:07 < Wally> hahaha
53702:08 < Wally> Something tells me they didn't draft this at all
53802:08 < buZz> :)
53902:08 < Wally> It is a pretty decent price for what it is really
54002:08 < luke-jr> buZz: or Linux
54102:08 < luke-jr> Wally: not so fast I didn't have time to login
54202:08 < luke-jr> although I put it on a different credit card than I'd usually like :/
54302:08 < Wally> Pyra Pre-pre orders went out early
54402:09 < Wally> luke-jr you still getting a pyra?
54502:09 < buZz> luke-jr: but THE TOUCHSCREEN IS OFFSET
54602:09 < buZz> wraaaaa
54702:09 < buZz> lol
54802:09 < luke-jr> buZz: doubt it
54902:09 < dTal> I am greatly looking forward to seeing the Pyra's standby performance
55002:09 < luke-jr> buZz: the touchscreen was supposedly rotated on GPD Win 1, but didn't have any problems
55102:10 < luke-jr> Wally: unlikely. I see my Pyra pre-order as an interest-free loan to ED now
55202:10 < buZz> luke-jr: just a joke , someone that reviewed 'linux'
55302:10 < buZz> but basically all he did was click on a gnome desktop a couple times
55402:10 < buZz> 'IT ALL WORKS'
55502:10 < Wally> 6-8 hours
55602:10 < buZz> :D
55702:10 < Wally> battery
55802:10 < BlueMaxima> you can cut the amount of power it gets and get more
55902:10 < buZz> luke-jr: you realize you could just cancel your preorder? :)
56002:10 < luke-jr> buZz: could I? does order position matter?
56102:11 < luke-jr> or referrign to what?
56202:11 < buZz> pyra? i mean, if you feel uninterested in pyra
56302:11 < luke-jr> buZz: oh, sure, but I don't mind the loan
56402:12 < dTal> Wally: 6-8 hours for the Pyra's on-time?
56502:12 < Wally> dTal that's the GPD Win battery
56602:13 < Wally> AU$760 wow
56702:13 < Wally> They want $1,200
56802:14 < Wally> They got rid of the fan switch and the weird input crap
56902:16 < buZz> sorta related
57002:16 < buZz> does anyone know a method to use those 'USB-C portable monitors' on a DP port?
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57402:45 < comradekingu> Is the Pyra able to run on 5V without the battery?
57502:46 < dTal> I believe so
57602:51 < comradekingu> Live free, battery life
57702:51 < comradekingu> Did the mini battery for hotswapping get taken out?
57802:51 < comradekingu> Otherwise one might externally power while swapping
57902:52 < comradekingu> Not that you should remove the battery while it is on
58002:54 < dTal> I don't see why not - what if you're compiling something on battery, and you don't want to interrupt the build, and you have a spare battery
58102:55 < cryptonix2> >Intel(R) Identity Protection Technology
58202:55 < cryptonix2> wtf is this crap lmfao
58302:55 -!- lukey [~lukas@p2E5B5373.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
58402:56 < cryptonix2> sounds like it identifies you if you are behind a 'proxy'
58502:56 < dTal> you don't want your identity to be unprotected, do you?
58602:57 < cryptonix2> ill pass
58702:57 < buZz> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/identity-protection/identity-protection-technology-general.html
58802:57 < buZz> its like TOTP in hardware
58902:57 < buZz> weird shit
59002:58 < dTal> Top Of The Pops?
59102:58 < cryptonix2> time based otp?
59202:59 -!- lukey_ [~lukas@p3EE23772.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
59303:00 < cryptonix2> gpd win2 looks cool and all but its one gigantic pos I would never reccomend
59403:02 < dTal> why
59503:02 < dTal> cause it runs windows?
59603:02 < cryptonix2> no
59703:02 < cryptonix2> jfc
59803:02 < dTal> cause it's backdoored by the chinese?
59903:03 < cryptonix2> a chip that IDs you, but not only that it does it via JS
60003:03 < Wally> i'm ignoring jdtay on the forums right now
60103:03 < Wally> cryptonix2 https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/who-gave-urjaman-op-status-in-the-pyra-irc-channel.82381/#post-1429408
60203:04 < dTal> doesn't seem like you're ignoring him very well :p
60303:04 < Wally> he got kickbanned
60403:04 < Wally> dTal not going to respond to him at least ;)
60503:05 < dTal> I wish no one had
60603:05 < cryptonix2> does the pyra have a microphone builtin?
60703:05 < dTal> ytes
60803:06 < Wally> Pandora has one too
60903:06 < Wally> but it's pretty avg
61003:06 < cryptonix2> dam
61103:06 < dTal> you can always mute it
61203:06 < Wally> or pull it out
61303:06 < cryptonix2> yeah pull it out
61403:06 < dTal> or not talk around your Pyra
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61603:07 < Wally> anyway bbl
61703:07 < dTal> I mean if you don't trust the software on the Pyra what's the point
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62203:07 < dTal> being keylogged is a way worse threat than being secretly recorded
62303:07 < cryptonix2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_cryptanalysis
62403:08 < dTal> what's the relevance
62503:08 < dTal> if you're worried about the microphone in the context of acoustic cryptanalysis, you're worried about arbitrary code running on the Pyra
62603:09 < dTal> in which case you should be a lot more worried about, among other things, keylogging
62703:10 < buZz> i do agree built-in microphones arent ever useful
62803:10 < buZz> anyone that wants to record something, wont be using that microphone
62903:10 < dTal> the Pyra is a phone remember
63003:10 < dTal> I will certainly be using it
63103:10 < buZz> and even skypers and vloggers use headsets with microphones
63203:10 < dTal> even without telephony there are many uses for a built-in mic
63303:11 < buZz> dTal: oh sure, but i -hope- pyra wont be a 'phone' :)
63403:11 < dTal> such as tuning instruments
63503:11 < buZz> on a typical android , the -simcard- can access the microphone directly, without OS even noticing
63603:11 < dTal> what do you mean by that?
63703:11 < dTal> it's not a typical Android, but it ought to be a phone
63803:11 < buZz> combined with unnoticeable remote installation of software on simcards
63903:12 < buZz> https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5449_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312271715_-_mobile_network_attack_evolution_-_karsten_nohl_-_luca_melette
64003:12 < dTal> yeah, I know all that
64103:12 < dTal> simcards are bad mmkay
64203:12 < buZz> so thats what i mean by , i hope it wont be a phone :)
64303:12 < dTal> but it is
64403:12 < dTal> the GSM version has a modem and sim slot etc
64503:13 < dTal> which cannot access the microphone independent of the OS, as I'm sure you're aware
64603:13 < buZz> yeah but fully unpowered baseband
64703:13 < buZz> until you enable it
64803:13 < buZz> which makes it very much unphone aswell :P
64903:13 < buZz> would have been a bit nicer with opensource baseband though ^_^
65003:13 < dTal> I'm still not sure what you mean - I would like to make phone calls with my Pyra
65103:13 < urjaman> how about fairies and unicors too
65203:14 < urjaman> *unicorns too while at it :P
65303:14 < dTal> and it has been designed such that that is possible
65403:15 < cryptonix2> >arbitrary code
65503:15 < buZz> like react.js
65603:15 < buZz> :P
65703:15 < cryptonix2> you run that everytime you use any javascript
65803:15 < buZz> whats that rowhammer-in-js called again :P
65903:16 < buZz> oh wait, rowhammer is the js one
66003:16 < buZz> right https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity16/sec16_paper_razavi.pdf
66103:16 < buZz> flip feng shui was the non-js
66203:16 < cryptonix2> you can defeat aslr by using cache timing attacks in js
66303:17 < dTal> "Would you like to allow this site to access your microphone" --> no
66403:17 < dTal> done
66503:17 < buZz> :P
66603:17 < buZz> that setting is in memory though
66703:18 < dTal> if you're really paranoid fire up alsamixer and mute the mic
66803:18 < buZz> thats also in memory
66903:19 < dTal> kernel memory
67003:19 < cryptonix2> only physical switches can defeat any situation
67103:19  * luke-jr adds GPD Win 2 to https://pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparison_Chart
67203:19 < dTal> even rowhammer is unlikely to affect that
67303:20 < buZz> Chaconne?
67403:21 < dTal> ...which is apparently a lie, never mind :p
67503:24  * luke-jr wonders if Gemini is actually becoming a real thing
67603:25 < luke-jr> buZz: https://us11.campaign-archive.com/?u=1d34480bd339567cb5c193ac8&id=5926adce6d&e=e094d06079
67703:26 < buZz> oh that looks horrible
67803:26 < buZz> but nice specs
67903:28 < luke-jr> Gemini has only 2 GB RAM, nm
68003:29 < dTal> that marketing copy is really something else
68103:29 < dTal> it reads like a spoof of silicon valley marketing copy
68203:32 < luke-jr> what is your GPD Win 2 backer numbers? I got #157
68303:33 <@zmatt> buZz: sim card can access microphone without OS cooperation?  got a reference for that?
68403:33 < luke-jr> buZz: I use built-in microphones all the time
68503:33 < cryptonix2> well they could read from the devices internal mmc
68603:34 < buZz> zmatt: https://media.ccc.de/v/30C3_-_5449_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312271715_-_mobile_network_attack_evolution_-_karsten_nohl_-_luca_melette
68703:34 <@zmatt> ah it appears in that talk? ok
68803:34  * zmatt already started watching it
68903:34 < buZz> quite sure, or one of the other ccc talks on simcards :/
69003:34 < buZz> there's a couple
69103:40 < cryptonix2> https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/replicant-developers-find-and-close-samsung-galaxy-backdoor
69204:05 <@zmatt> buZz: doesn't seem to be in this talk
69304:06 < buZz> might be https://media.ccc.de/v/cccamp11-4427-the_blackbox_in_your_phone-en then
69404:06 <@zmatt> buZz: I'm assuming it would involve the sim card performing some type of exploit against the host via the SIM Application Toolkit ?
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69604:17 < slaeshjag> _aegis_: Ugh, that Unicorn cpu emulator thing really isn't well documented. Can't for the life of me figure out how to trap on corpocessor writes when enumating ARM :|
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69804:22 < cryptonix2> slaeshjag: are you using gdb?
69904:23 < slaeshjag> uh, no?
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70104:37 < cryptonix2> you could just use qemu and attach via gdb
70204:48 < slaeshjag> I can't use qemu, it defeats the entire point
70304:51 -!- defaultxr [~defaultxr@76-234-41-127.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
70404:56 <@zmatt> buZz: I've seen no evidence so far.  also, I don't even think the sim card interface has enough bandwidth for audio, nor does it seem likely the card itself has enough memory and cpu power to deal with audio in any way
70505:04 < buZz> could be i've misunderstood
70605:04 < buZz> and maybe just retains to sms
70705:04 < dTal> could it possibly open a remote connection allowing audio data to be exfiltrated?
70805:05 < dTal> on systems with DMA, bypassing the OS?
70905:05 <@zmatt> it would need to exploit the OS first to get any access to dma in the first place
71005:08 < dTal> I was under the impression that baseband software typically had the keys to the kingdom
71105:09 < dTal> at any rate the neo900 guys seem to believe their (and our) architecture offers more security than a typical mobile phone's architecture
71205:09 <@zmatt> yeah sorry, OS or baseband
71305:10 <@zmatt> assuming baseband talks directly to the sim, which does sound likely
71405:11 < dTal> and it's also a closed-source blob, so maybe it's better to consider the sim+baseband system as one untrustworthy unit for architectural purposes
71505:13 <@zmatt> having the modem and application SoC completely separate is obviously better from a security point of view (for both the concerns of the end user and those of the telcos actually), and it was probably like that in many older phones.  tightly integrating them is probably better for cost and power consumption
71605:14 <@zmatt> security could still be fine when integrated, but it's much easier to fuck up or just be careless
71705:14 < cryptonix2> and speed, smaller phone sizes
71805:14 <@zmatt> in which use-cases do you envision the soc-modem interface to be a relevant limiting factor for performance?
71905:15 < cryptonix2> can it be compared to intel merging the north and south bridge on the cpu
72005:16 < cryptonix2> it could be based on bus
72105:16 <@zmatt> maybe in some aspects, but that's really a very different situation
72205:18 <@zmatt> e.g. basically *everything* that's not pure computation involves the north bridge, including all traffic to RAM... it and its interface to the cpu is obviously highly critical to performance
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72405:59 < Wally> zmatt JDTAY got a ban
72506:00 < Wally> https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/who-gave-urjaman-op-status-in-the-pyra-irc-channel.82381/#post-1429421
72606:00 < Wally> "It's not like I liked IRC anyway, b-b-baka! I was just hanging out there for everyone else's benefit."
72706:00 <@zmatt> lol
72806:01 <@zmatt> haha, I like that post of him
72906:01 <@zmatt> silly tsundere
73006:02 < Wally> yes
73106:03 <@zmatt> also funny the topic started with three posts that have been automatically merged together... pretty illustrative
73206:03 < Wally> This was before I banned him too tho
73306:03 < Wally> 1:44 was when I banned him
73406:04 < Wally> I'm gunna let him blabber on.
73506:07 <@zmatt> oh wow, I was checking to see how many lines his "one medium length sentence" was, and it was actually one medium length sentence
73606:07 -!- chomwitt [~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc08:a00:9dc9:1df3:6a38:1d59] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
73706:07 < Wally> yeah
73806:07 < Wally> I think the ban should be perma
73906:09 <@zmatt> lol, and urjaman didn't even *do* anything
74006:10 < BlueMaxima> see
74106:10 < BlueMaxima> I muted him like two weeks ago
74206:10 < BlueMaxima> you guys are only just getting around to see the smart side of that :P
74306:11 < Wally> yeah lol
74406:13 <@zmatt> I didn't know that -> < JDTAY> Aw man, in the Win 2 thread it says ED tried to get a Snapdragon for Pyra, but Qualcomm refused to talk to him despite their own engineers introducing him.
74506:13 < Wally> thread only has one report
74606:13 <@zmatt> anyone got a link?
74706:14 < Wally> maybe this thread? https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/soc-back-and-forth.73591/page-29#post-1283010
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74906:14 < Wally> dreamer you can come back now
75006:16 <@zmatt> Wally: damn that's a long thread
75106:16 < Wally> Isn't every thread on the forum long?
75206:16 < Wally> Quaoclm didn;t have lunux drivers
75306:17 < Wally> did ptitseb ever get his board back?
75406:18 <@zmatt> ?
75506:18 < Wally> his pyra broke
75606:19 <@zmatt> it would be nice to collect EvilDragon's experiences with the various SoC vendors, just in case people wonder "why didn't you use XYZ" ... to show how hard it is to obtain a decent SoC in low quantities
75706:19 <@zmatt> e.g. "Oh, I got in contact with MediaTek, but the quantity was too low and no Linux drivers available."
75806:19 < Wally> Wasn't comradekingu doing that on the wiki?
75906:21 <@zmatt> well, google gives no results on:   qualcomm mediatek site:www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki
76006:21 < Wally> yay
76106:22 <@zmatt> what exactly is meant with "no linux drivers" ?
76206:23 <@zmatt> given that these SoCs will generally run android, hence kernel drivers are obviously available
76306:23 < Wally> yeah true
76406:23 < Wally> maybe you need to grave dig that thread zmatt ;)
76506:24 <@zmatt> I wish there was a simple way to get all of ED's posts in that thread, but search results only show a snippet of each post
76606:25 <@zmatt> or get all posts of the thread in one page at least
76706:25 < Wally> Wouldn't it be nice eh BlueMaxima?
76806:26 < BlueMaxima> oh it would be wonderful Wally
76906:26 < BlueMaxima> if only someone would do that
77006:26 < Wally> in a world of chocolate
77106:26 < BlueMaxima> oh I thought you were talking about...
77206:26 < Wally> There's probably a filter somewhere zmatt
77306:26 < BlueMaxima> zmatt http://stalker.openpandora.org/
77406:26 < Wally> Stalker doesn't go back that far :(
77506:27 < BlueMaxima> oh
77606:27 < BlueMaxima> derp
77706:30 <@zmatt> ok, I guess userspace 3d drivers that depend on android's userspace might be a problem
77806:31 < Wally> Don't we have this issue already?
77906:31 <@zmatt> no?
78006:31 < Wally> ;)
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78306:40 <@zmatt> JDTAY: have a link handy to that post by ED about Qualcomm?
78406:42 < JDTAY> I just know what Silent-Hunter and levi said about it. I could search for ED's take on it though.
78506:43 < Wally> Doesn't make your ban any shorter..
78606:43 <@zmatt> oh, I misunderstood what you said then
78706:44 <@zmatt> right, "it says ED tried..." rather than "ED said he tried..."
78806:44 < JDTAY> Yeah, I meant in the past.
78906:44 < Wally> We didn't invite you back JDTAY
79006:44 < JDTAY> :(
79106:45 < JDTAY> I guess maybe I should get going then maybe.
79206:45 <@zmatt> I guess if it's second-hand than they're just talking about the "SoC: Back and forth!" thread
79306:46 < JDTAY> Um, yeah.
79406:46 < Wally> as long as zmatt is here and you're on topic JDTAY
79506:46 < Wally> Stray off, you're out
79606:46 <@zmatt> no good summary there though, just in the end "Nope, didn't get any real reply in the end." from ED in reference to Qualcomm
79706:47 < JDTAY> Well, they were speculating that he will try again after Pyra's out.
79806:47 < JDTAY> Is that what you thought I was referring to?
79906:47 < Wally> I think EvilDragon was lookin gat the RISC-V processor or something
80006:48 <@zmatt> no I was just hoping for a post containing a statement from ED about his experiences with Qualcomm
80106:49 <@zmatt> in general it would be nice to have stuff to point to regarding how hard it is just to buy mobile SoCs when you're not a major manufacturer
80206:50 < JDTAY> Oh man, I'm at RISC-V's website to see what it is. They're going to be at Embedded World 2018 in Nuremburg. I'd make a joke about a surprise trial, but Wally is still here.
80306:54 < JDTAY> So what I'm getting is that RISC-V isn't a processor, just a specification for processors. Which RISC-V processor would ED actually get?
80406:56 <@zmatt> RISC-V is an architecture, just like e.g. the various versions of the ARM architecture
80506:56 < JDTAY> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC-V#Commercially_available
80606:56 < JDTAY> Hmmm...
80706:57 < JDTAY> I say get lowRISC because it has the best name. >_>
80807:00 < JDTAY> Whoa, it has a privileged instruction set. Wonder what that means. I'd make a joke about having to be a straight white male to access it, but Wally's still here.
80907:01 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [+q JDTAY!*@*] by zmatt
81007:01 <@zmatt> (for your obnoxious "would make joke .. but Wally's still here" lines)
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81207:16 < dreamer> Wally: ?
81307:16 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [-q JDTAY!*@*] by zmatt
81407:17 -!- baptist [~baptsk@rev-140-208.legacytubes.illyse.net] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
81507:19 < sm0kew0n> I thought I was tolerant .....
81607:20 < JDTAY> I'm at lowRISC's site and they actually sound kinda like ED. "When can I buy a lowRISC SoC? As with most tech projects, the most accurate answer is "When it's ready"."
81707:21 -!- tarator [~Thunderbi@84-113-5-52.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
81807:23 < JDTAY> "We also have an IRC channel where a number of us as well others interested in lowRISC, RISC-V, and open source hardware hang out." Wonder if I should pop in there.
81907:24 <@zmatt> it sounds like a cool project.  of course it will probably have completely shit power/performance ratio, but still
82007:24 < JDTAY> Awww.
82107:25 <@zmatt> what?  you can't expect it to be able to compete with mature designs from highly experienced and well-funded SoC manufacturers who have been doing this for years
82207:26 < JDTAY> Yeah...
82307:27 < JDTAY> I guess ED will go with SiFive if he wants RISC-V then. They're fabless, so you know their stuff is good.
82407:28 <@zmatt> I've seen not the slightest hint that they have anything remotely suitable for mobile linux devices
82507:28 < JDTAY> Yeah, that could be a problem.
82607:28 < JDTAY> :(
82707:30 < luke-jr> if Pyra was RISC-V, I'd probably consider getting one again
82807:32 <@zmatt> but it makes no sense to even consider it (as proposal for an alternate CPU board) unless one can point to a specific SoC that looks like it could be remotely suitable
82907:32 < JDTAY> Yeah, RISC-V is still too new.
83007:33 < JDTAY> The products aren't available yet.
83107:34 < JDTAY> Oh man, Qualcomm has good SoCs ready right now, but they're being all hoard-y with them. That's what we started this convo on, right?
83207:37 < JDTAY> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_system-on-a-chip_suppliers Oh man, don't tell me ED goes through all of these one by one? The life of a dragon is tough.
83307:37 <@zmatt> yeah, I got a bit optimistic about them back in 2016 when they released some actual docs on their embedded Snapdragons, hoping perhaps it was the first step towards a more open future... but now it looks like it didn't have much follow-up at all
83407:42 < bencoh> zmatt: "experience with qcm" -> awful
83507:43 <@zmatt> qcm ?
83607:43 < bencoh> qualcomm
83707:43 <@zmatt> ah
83807:44 < bencoh> from our own "experience" you have to work with a 3rd-party with access to their sdk
83907:44 < bencoh> oh and, obivously they only have "android" support
84007:45 < JDTAY> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra#Similar_platforms This narrows it down a bit.
84107:46 < JDTAY> Hey, do you think ED could get Tegra itself? He could be all like, "Have a Switch with Linux!"
84207:47 < JDTAY> Nah, those Tegras are too expensive unless you order six digits of them.
84307:56 < JDTAY> Man, ED said in the Win 2 thread, "I've got some good ideas whom to contact, but don't want to do that before the Pyra is released (as I can show it to them as well, which makes getting the SoC easier)." Looking at the list of SoC suppliers though, there don't really seem to be too many options.
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85008:06 < JDTAY> The only thing we can really assume is that he didn't mean Texas Instruments.
85108:07 < JDTAY> 3 AM EST... I really should try to get a little sleep in, even if tomorrow's a holiday.
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85308:09 < Wally> Good riddance
85408:10 -!- Binky2 [~anmouse@31.220.194.27] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
85508:11 < cryptonix2> we could just design our own SoC
85608:12 < B-ZaR> you think pyra's dev time is bad now?
85708:13 < Wally> cryptonix2 that'd be interesting
85808:13 < Wally> B-ZaR if you're talking to JDTAY then I have no fucking idea
85908:13 < Wally> Pardon my french..
86008:13 < B-ZaR> no, cryptonix2
86108:13 < Wally> He's just bothering me
86208:13 < Wally> I tried banning him but he uses quassel
86308:13 < Wally> could just ban his ISP I suppose
86408:15 < cryptonix2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC#Open_source_implementations
86508:15 < Yotson> Wally. Or account, use $a:JDTAY as mask
86608:15 < Wally> or just ban his username
86708:15 < Wally> heh
86808:16 < sm0kew0n> what about the crybabying on the forums?
86908:16 < Wally> sm0kew0n yeah that's WIP
87008:20 < cryptonix2> B-ZaR: https://github.com/marmolejo/zet
87108:20 -!- cxl000 [~cxl000@180-150-93-44.NBN.mel.aussiebb.net] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
87208:20 < Wally> cryptonix2 how goes the 3D stuff
87308:20  * Wally glares at the NBN crap in cxl000's host and cries
87408:20 < B-ZaR> cryptonix2: yeah, how feature-comparable are those to even OMAP5?
87508:21 < B-ZaR> that's just the processor architecture
87608:21 < B-ZaR> well, a bit more
87708:21 < Wally> Hi Chris
87808:22 < Wally> Chris has done a lot of android crap
87908:22 < sebt3> morning here
88008:22 < Wally> Good morning sebt3 you angry french subway eating man
88108:22 < B-ZaR> morning there
88208:23 < B-ZaR> cryptonix2: the performance seems to be around... 486 processors?
88308:23 < sebt3> good evening to all aussie, especially our Wallaby master :D
88408:23 < Wally> Thank you sebt3.
88508:23 < Wally> morning Celtica :)
88608:26 < B-ZaR> a Lolla by any other name?
88708:26 < Wally> yes
88808:27 < Wally> I'm going to be planning a london meet for our UK friends if anyone wants to meet me
88908:27 < Wally> I mean
89008:27 < Wally> Wait what
89108:27 < B-ZaR> you mean
89208:28 < Wally> Yes
89308:28 < sebt3> Wally: are you going to finland and around to see all those living up north ?
89408:28 < Wally> I dunno if we'll reach the finnish
89508:29 < Wally> I think the furthest we thought we'd get would be norway
89608:29 < Wally> but if Vanessa gets extra time approved
89708:29 < sebt3> But Venise is already part of the plan, right ?
89808:29 < Wally> Venice yes
89908:29 < sebt3> :D
90008:29 < B-ZaR> quite a trip you're having
90108:29 < Wally> ;)
90208:30 < Wally> but if Vanessa gets 2 extra weeks of unpaid leave
90308:30 < Wally> then maybe we can extend it to the top of sweden
90408:30 < sebt3> B-ZaR: if you're about to go to the other side of the planet, better take a look at the better of that
90508:30 < Wally> Dunny is coming all this way
90608:30 < Wally> and is not coming to Melb
90708:31 < sebt3> I do understand him, there's nothing interesting in Melbourne :D
90808:31 < Wally> lol
90908:31 < Wally> you've never been here ;)
91008:32 < B-ZaR> sebt3: I suppose so :D
91108:32 < B-ZaR> furthest I've been is canary islands, ~4000km away
91208:33 < sebt3> B-ZaR: the thing is, we dont see that the same way : there's not much to see in aussie-land. But the other way around have to be a longer trip
91308:33 < sebt3> :D
91408:34 < B-ZaR> well, I hear there's a gazillion ways to die there, but you usually only want to see them once
91508:35 < sebt3> So JDTAY went completely crazy over the weekend ?
91608:36 < sm0kew0n> Too much GPD
91708:43 < Wally> sebt3 isn't he always completely crazy?
91808:43 < Wally> You miss half of the shit going on here
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92108:46 < Wally> I swear I kept a firewire 800 cable here..
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92308:55 < BlueMaxima> Wally the flash collection is up to 42 games
92408:55 < Wally> of 90000000
92508:56 < BlueMaxima> yup -.-
92608:56 < BlueMaxima> think it's time I add penguin toss
92709:04 -!- ptitSeb|Work [~quassel@46.218.149.178] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
92809:04 < sebt3> Salut ptitSeb|Work
92909:04 < ptitSeb|Work> Salut sebt3
93009:05 < ptitSeb|Work> what's up in Pyra channel?
93109:05 -!- ClockworkCoder [~Clockwork@81.141.185.87] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
93209:06 < BlueMaxima> sebt3 ptitSeb|Work are you two familiar with flash games
93309:07 < sebt3> they are dead now
93409:07 < BlueMaxima> yes
93509:07 < BlueMaxima> :(
93609:07 < BlueMaxima> but did you ever play them
93709:07 < ptitSeb|Work> not much
93809:07 < ptitSeb|Work> I think the only one I played was .. mmm... Tasty Planet, or something like that
93909:08 < ptitSeb|Work> most flash game doesn't seems worth my (little) playing time in fact
94009:08 < BlueMaxima> that's a shame, there's a lot of good flash games
94109:09 < ptitSeb|Work> there are a lot of good games
94209:09 < ptitSeb|Work> flash or other
94309:09 < Wally> Helllo ptitSeb|Work
94409:10 < ptitSeb|Work> Hi Wally
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94709:19 < Wally> undexsym
94809:19 < Wally> hello my english friend
94909:26 < undexsym> hello my strayan friend
95009:26 -!- de_shadow [~deshadow@124-170-5-99.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
95109:26 < Wally> how are you my english friend
95209:28 < undexsym> I am good
95309:28 < Wally> that is good
95409:28 < undexsym> Did urjaman ban JDTAY?
95509:29 < comradekingu> was kicked to sleep
95609:29 < Wally> undexsym nah I did
95709:29 < Wally> but he came back
95809:29 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [+o Wally] by ChanServ
95909:30 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [+b jdtay!*@*] by Wally
96009:30 <@Wally> that'll do
96109:30 -!- mode/#dragonbox-pyra [-o Wally] by ChanServ
96209:30 < undexsym> Hah
96309:30 < undexsym> What did he do?
96409:30 < Wally> The usual crap
96509:32 < undexsym> O well
96609:32 < undexsym> Maybe I'll lurk here again then
96709:33 < Wally> y:D
96809:34 < undexsym> and monologue
96909:34 < Wally> It should be peaceful again
97009:35 < undexsym> So... Pyra when? I haven't been keeping up
97109:41 < sebt3> 2 months
97209:44 < Wally> :)
97309:44 < Wally> Not missing much undexsym
97409:45 < undexsym> K
97509:46 < undexsym> I'm guessing the 700 euros we pay when it's released will be like 20 in today's money
97609:49 < bencoh> :]
97709:49 < cryptonix2> any hopes for a psp vita emulator?
97809:53 < Wally> probably no
97909:53 < Wally> t
98009:53 < Wally> unless bencoh codes one ;)
98109:53 < cryptonix2> because the pyra has the same specs just about
98209:53 < cryptonix2> including the gpu
98309:54 < Wally> undexsym is scary
98409:54 -!- attos [~nix@x4e32be9a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
98509:54 < Wally> Pandora almost had the same specs as the dreamcast
98609:54 < Wally> He says stuff
98709:55 < bencoh> cryptonix2: do they use egl on psp/vita?
98809:55 < bencoh> (I somehow doubt it, but who knows)
98909:55 < BlueMaxima> the vita actually uses the same gpu as the pyra iirc
99009:56 < bencoh> well, using an SGX never meant writing a project will be easy :D
99109:56 < Wally> You mean the pyra will use exactly the same GPU as the vita? :P
99209:57 < cryptonix2> i was thinking giving access to the gpu for the emulator directly
99309:57 < kaprikawn> Exophase will probably just pop up and submit a psp emulator for the first coding competition
99409:57 < kaprikawn> that or skynet
99509:57 < bencoh> that's what I suspected, but ... I suppose it'd be a bit more complicated than "just that"
99609:58 < cryptonix2> you would have to emulate the addresses the vita was looking for and try to map it to the gpu
99709:59 < bencoh> you forgot interrupts
99809:59 < Wally> How goes that project anyway cryptonix2?
99910:00 < bencoh> and that'd basically mean you have no longer any control over the gpu
100010:00 < cryptonix2> its good, im reading and writing to the devices mapped memory via drmwrites
100110:01 < cryptonix2> well yeah
100210:01 < cryptonix2> you could use something like kvm
100310:01 < cryptonix2> and you do have the crappy gpu to switch to
100410:02 < bencoh> how'd you get the gpu to actually display stuff?
100510:03 < bencoh> I doubt the vita just transfers rendered pictures back from gpu only to manually push it to display
100610:04 < bencoh> that sounds ... quite suboptimal, especially for a console
100710:04 < bencoh> (and a handheld one)
100810:05 < bencoh> (well tbh I don't really know ... maybe that's what it does)
100910:06 < cryptonix2> how else do you think people play AAA games over KVM?
101010:06 < bencoh> AAA?
101110:06 < Wally> highly rated
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101310:07 < bencoh> ah
101410:07 < cryptonix2> you literally give the guest complete control of the GPU
101510:08 < bencoh> I kinda understood VM gets full control over gpu/display, except for special cases where hardware actually has support for "gpu virtualization" (like the intel thing)
101610:10 <@zmatt> note that giving the guest *complete* control of the gpu is obviously not safe if the gpu is a bus master unless there's an iommu to isolate it
101710:10 < bencoh> indeed :)
101810:11 < Cloudef> bencoh: SR-IOV
101910:11 < bencoh> (well, omap5 has some iommu, but I don't know to what extent you could isolate the vm their)
102010:11 < bencoh> there*
102110:12 < cryptonix2> iommu?
102210:12 < bencoh> Cloudef: SR-IOV implies explicit support from the pcie target, right? :)
102310:12 < cryptonix2> zmatt: yeah iommu
102410:12 < Cloudef> bencoh: yup, only indrustral GPUs atm :(
102510:12 < bencoh> that's what I suspected :)
102610:12 < Cloudef> bencoh: the types which don't have any ports to connect monitor to
102710:12 < bencoh> and sgx on omap5 is out anyway :)
102810:12 <@zmatt> there isn't really a general iommu on the omap5, although it may be possible to adequately shield sgx' access to the rest of the system using the l3 firewalls
102910:12 < bencoh> huhu
103010:13 < Cloudef> but it's basically hw level multiplexing, single PCI device shows up as multiple ones
103110:13 < cryptonix2> https://elixir.free-electrons.com/linux/latest/source/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/iommu/ti,omap-iommu.txt
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103310:13 < bencoh> Cloudef: at the end of the day, pretty much everything is just "hw multiplexing in the virtualization world :]
103410:14 < Cloudef> well yeah, sr-iov is pretty much used for anything but consumer gpus
103510:14 <@zmatt> but that does mean you have to carve physical ram into regions that should be accessible to sgx and regions that must not be, and you can't define many regions (the exact number varies per firewall, I'd need to check)
103610:14 < bencoh> Cloudef: which is quite a shame tbh, considering for how long this "issue" has been around
103710:15 < Cloudef> bencoh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okMGtwfiXMo there's this too
103810:15 < Cloudef> (uses same name as pre-compiz :P)
103910:15 < bencoh> Cloudef: that one really passthroughs the whole gpu/display chain right?
104010:16 < bencoh> ("headless passthrough", so I suppose so)
104110:16 < Cloudef> bencoh: it's virtual display on client that sends the display to host
104210:16 < bencoh> ?
104310:16 < Cloudef> you still need something to act as display on the gpu though
104410:17 < Cloudef> bencoh: like driver on windows that just interacts with the host
104510:17 < bencoh> "for technical details [...]" - watch another video
104610:17 < bencoh> meh :]
104710:17 < Cloudef> passing the buffer over shared memory
104810:17 < bencoh> Cloudef: like vgl/virtio?
104910:18 < Cloudef> vgl passes opengl calls?
105010:18 < bencoh> http://www.studiopixl.com/blog/index.php/posts/3d-acceleration-using-virtio
105110:18 < bencoh> yeah
105210:18 < Cloudef> yeah not same
105310:18 < Wally> glhck passses CloudefGL?
105410:18 < bencoh> then I don't really see how you can do pcie passthrough while still having to interact with the host (?)
105510:18 < Cloudef> bencoh: this just passes the resulting image, no gpu calls or anything
105610:19 < bencoh> ?
105710:19 < Cloudef> I don't understand what you are saying
105810:19 < Cloudef> it's a thing you use with GPU PCI passthrough, to pass image back to host and render it in window :P
105910:19 < bencoh> Cloudef: I'd need to actually watch the (technical) video I suppose :)
106010:20 < bencoh> Cloudef: that's exactly the part I don't get :)
106110:20 < Cloudef> you still need 2 gpus or the SR-IOV :P
106210:20 < Cloudef> but you can remove monitor
106310:20 < cryptonix2> the omap 5 does have 2 gpus
106410:20 < cryptonix2> bencoh: thats *emulating* a gpu
106510:21 < Cloudef> not really
106610:21 < bencoh> Cloudef: how do you get the gpu to render onto a memory-backed surface while you no longer have control over it?
106710:21 < Cloudef> windows has full control over gpu
106810:21 < Cloudef> bencoh: you install driver in windows I guess
106910:22 < Cloudef> and then there's backdoor it communicates with your host :P
107010:22 < bencoh> Cloudef: I see now :)
107110:22 < bencoh> (and obviously this cannot apply to the vita case :)
107210:23 < cryptonix2> Cloudef: what do you mean `not really`
107310:23 <@zmatt> cryptonix2: the two gpus are totally different things though, and both render into memory (neither is relevant in any way for actual video output)
107410:23 < Cloudef> bencoh: oh vita?
107510:23 < Cloudef> virtualizing vita on pyra :P?
107610:23 < Cloudef> you could write translation layer for vita
107710:23 < bencoh> Cloudef: that's what started this whole discussion yeah
107810:23 < cryptonix2> Cloudef: thats what I was saying
107910:23 < Cloudef> all games on it are highly hle'd
108010:24 < Cloudef> s/are/can be/
108110:24 <@zmatt> the vita doesn't have the same gpu as the omap5 though
108210:24 < bencoh> Cloudef: ah
108310:24 < Cloudef> zmatt: yeah but all rendering goes through opengl like lib
108410:24 < bencoh> Cloudef: so you're basically saying "take their binaries, and replace the already existing HLE with your own"?
108510:24 < Cloudef> the software on vita is heavily sandboxed and don't interact with hw as far I see
108610:25 <@zmatt> Cloudef: if you're going to intercept things at that layer anyway, there's no need to virtualize the hw
108710:25 < cryptonix2> >quadcore
108810:25 < Cloudef> bencoh: yeah you could write wine for it basically
108910:25 < cryptonix2> nvm its never going to work
109010:25 < bencoh> now that'd be fun :)
109110:25 < bencoh> cryptonix2: the "quadcore" part is probably the less problematic :)
109210:25 < bencoh> zmatt: yeah :)
109310:29 < cryptonix2> bencoh: what does the pyra have?
109410:30 <@zmatt> pass-through virtualization could probably also be done easily at the powervr services layer, i.e. glueing the guest powervr gles libraries to the host kernel driver... unfortunately however that requires exactly matching sgx core and driver versions
109510:30 < bencoh> cryptonix2: two C-A15
109610:30 <@zmatt> cryptonix2: for gpu?  omap5 has dual-core sgx-544, vs quad-core sgx-543 on the vita
109710:33 < cryptonix2> yeah i dont think we can emulate a vita :/
109810:35 <@zmatt> it all depends on the amount of effort put in I guess
109910:35 < Wally> depends on the game too
110010:36 < slaeshjag> and doesn't the vita run all its cores at the speed of a wind chime?
110110:40 <@zmatt> its quad cortex-a9 cores are apparently clocked at 333 MHz by default, or up to 444 MHz if the game requests it
110210:40 <@zmatt> gpu default 111 MHz, max 222 MHz
110310:40 < bencoh> while you have an A15 running at 1.5G ... you should be fine :]
110410:41 < bencoh> (cpu-wise)
110510:41 < cryptonix2> heh cool
110610:41 < bencoh> (you still have to emulate/passthrough/whatever the gpu though)
110710:41 <@zmatt> so interestingly, for both cpu and gpu they use lower-class cores (a9 vs a15, sgx543 vs sgx544), twice as many cores, much lower clock frequency
110810:42 <@zmatt> so much lower than it might actually be possible to achieve the same performance on the omap5
110910:42 < bencoh> zmatt: I supposed they eventually benched it and running at lower clock was more interesting battery-wise?
111010:42 < bencoh> -d
111110:43 <@zmatt> I guess, although it's not clear to me why more cores at lower speed would be better
111210:43 < cryptonix2> more distributed work?
111310:43 < bencoh> I suppose they have no real "idle time"
111410:44 <@zmatt> JonnyH`Away: how big are the differences between the sgx543 and sgx544 ?
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111610:44 < cxl000> Wally no need to cry it is just NBN crap
111710:44 < Wally> D:
111810:44 <@zmatt> cryptonix2: that's a downside, not a plus side
111910:44 <@zmatt> cryptonix2: distributing work is complicated and adds synchronization overhead
112010:44 < bencoh> zmatt: maybe they cannot really clockgate the whole thing while game is running, so you can't expect to run at a high clockrate and just sleep waiting for the next "tick"
112110:45 <@zmatt> that sounds silly, clock gating is used pervasively in SoCs
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112310:46 <@zmatt> and unlike voltage or frequency transitions, clock gating is basically instant hence can be done very agressively
112410:46 < bencoh> dunno ... how'd you explain it then? :)
112510:46 < BlueMaxima> magnets
112610:46 -!- BlueMaxima [~BlueMaxim@203-217-22-40.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
112710:46 <@zmatt> I have no idea.  I'd love to know the design trade-offs here that motivated these particular choices
112810:47 < bencoh> zmatt: on imx7 for instance they chose to have two "modes" for AHB/AXI. a low freq mode, and a high freq one
112910:48 < bencoh> and the high freq mode is still much more power-demanding than the low-freq one, even when idling
113010:48 < bencoh> (tbh this is part of the things I don't really understand either)
113110:50 <@zmatt> clock gating an interconnect is a bit more complicated than most things, since it's smeared out all over the chip and almost any activity on the chip will need (parts of) it to wake up
113210:50 < bencoh> I'd expect the same thing to happen in their case then
113310:50 < bencoh> (vita)
113410:50 <@zmatt> the cpu and gpu clocks are just for the cpu and gpu respectively
113510:51 <@zmatt> (almost certainly)
113610:51 < bencoh> ARM(core) and GPU usually have their own clock yeah
113710:52 < bencoh> (their own PLL even, at least for ARM - although that depends on soc design)
113810:52 <@zmatt> the clock generator itself (i.e. pll) will obviously also consume more power at higher frequency
113910:52 < bencoh> but then running cpu/gpu at high freq would probably mean running the interconnect at a high freq as well
114010:53 < bencoh> otherwise any memory transfer would be slow as hell
114110:53 < bencoh> (which would defeat the the whole thing)
114210:53 <@zmatt> well that's not the case on any TI SoC
114310:53 < bencoh> what isn't?
114410:53 <@zmatt> interconnect frequency is rarely altered dynamically afaik
114510:54 < bencoh> ah
114610:54 < bencoh> on imx7 they do it "dynamically" on request
114710:54 -!- Eli2 [~Eli2@pdpc/supporter/professional/eli2] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
114810:54 <@zmatt> does its memory controller run asynchronously to the interconnect then?
114910:54 -!- paulk-gagarine [~paulk-gag@gagarine.paulk.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
115010:55 < bencoh> there is an internal sram to run from when switching memory or bus frequency
115110:55 <@zmatt> ah ok, so it's just as involved there
115210:55 < bencoh> (same when putting ddr to self-refresh actually)
115310:56 <@zmatt> yeah ddr3 needs to be in self-refresh when switching clock frequency
115410:56 < bencoh> it basically moves stack to sram (with a small portion of code already loaded there), switch frequency, then goes back to ram
115510:58 < bencoh> and theoretically this could work in a completely dynamic fashion (as opposed to explicit on-request) by reading the (p)pmu statistics (as suggested by the devfreq infra for instance)
115610:59 < bencoh> I think that's what linux does on exynos
115710:59 <@zmatt> iirc it's possible to use the L3 interconnect statistics modules to generate an alert if certain performance metrics cross certain thresholds
115810:59 < bencoh> but they still explicitly request high freq when putting the ISP to work, for some reason
115911:00 < bencoh> zmatt: exact;u
116011:00 < bencoh> exactly*
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116211:00 < bencoh> well I dunno about the "alert" tbh
116311:01 < bencoh> but that'd work as well if supported by your hardware
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116511:03 <@zmatt> ah, vita also has an 8-core MeP c5 media engine
116611:03 <@zmatt> so, more stuff you'd need to emulate rather than virtualize
116711:09 < Cloudef> zmatt: it also has own CPU/Memory for all the encryption
116811:09 < Cloudef> so writing translation layer would be probably more effecient
116911:10 < Cloudef> you would still need real vita to decrypt the binaries :P
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117111:11 <@zmatt> oh, since people were talking about emulating it in the first place I kinda just assumed cracking it was a solved problem already :)
117211:11 < Cloudef> well, it's sort of cracked
117311:11 < Cloudef> through web browser exploit
117411:11 < Cloudef> but decryption for all things isn't solved AFAIK
117511:12 < Cloudef> and no real bypass for that
117611:12 < Cloudef> I think the keys were just found for certain firmware version
117711:13 < Cloudef> https://github.com/yifanlu/psvimgtools not sure if it can decrypt game files
117811:20 <@zmatt> haha, they found a way to recover the per-console key
117911:20 <@zmatt> the security coprocessor programs this key into a hw crypto accelerator
118011:20 <@zmatt> and it doesn't let you read the key
118111:21 <@zmatt> but it does let you write to any 32-bit word of the key
118211:21 < Cloudef> oh lol
118311:22 <@zmatt> (note that for the same reason you should not regard the hw crypto accelerator on TI SoCs to be a safe place to store keys)
118411:23 <@zmatt> although it is possible to have secure world program a key and then lock that key against non-secure writes... in that case it should be safe
118511:25 <@zmatt> ah of course, I was first thinking you'
118611:25 -!- Yerffej [414a18c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.74.24.196] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
118711:26 < Cloudef> accidental enter press?
118811:26 < B-ZaR> "Rolling your own encryption" https://twitter.com/MisterCh0c/status/951772327049646080
118911:27 < Cloudef> B-ZaR: 2 transparent cups and one different one :D
119011:27 <@zmatt> 'd recover the key using the engine itself: i.e. for i=0..7 { for n=0..0xffffffff { hw_aes.key[i] = n; if hw_aes.encrypt(0) == expected_value { FOUND IT } } }
119111:28 < Cloudef> zmatt: IIRC they did something like that for 3ds maybe
119211:28 <@zmatt> but actually it can be done even faster
119311:28 < Cloudef> though 3ds was leaking from various places
119411:28 < Cloudef> vita was trouble and is still trouble :P
119511:29 <@zmatt> just zeroize all but one of the unknown words, get some test outputs, and then crack it externally on a fast machine
119611:29 <@zmatt> optionally with a precomputed table for the first word
119711:30 <@zmatt> total time to brute force the 256-bit key on a quad-core intel (with hw aes instructions): 5 minutes
119811:30 <@zmatt> nicely done
119911:31 < Cloudef> what site are you reading?
120011:31 <@zmatt> https://yifan.lu/2017/02/19/psvimgtools-decrypt-vita-backups/
120111:31 < Cloudef> ty
120211:31 <@zmatt> ah, actually the backup key for your games isn't tied to the console but to your PSN account
120311:32 < Cloudef> yeah
120411:32 < Cloudef> and while the decryption/encryption can be done you can't sign anything
120511:32 < Cloudef> thus 3.63+ is SOL
120611:32 < Cloudef> you can get PSP emulation in though
120711:32 < Cloudef> as that's signed by sony :D
120811:33 < Cloudef> but, encryption/decryption would be enough for our fantasy translation layer
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121011:39 < Cloudef> yeah that was nice article
121111:41 <@zmatt> "However, with a vulnerability that abused some lightly documented features of the ARM architecture, the secure kernel was dumped on 06/09/2014" ... I'd be curious to know more details about that
121211:42 < Cloudef> yifan probably has blog post on that too
121311:43 < Cloudef> he pretty much did all the big work anyways
121411:48 <@zmatt> anyway, I'm off
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121611:51 <@EvilDragon> Morning folks!
121711:51 < Cloudef> morning
121811:52 < sebt3> Hi buddies
121911:57 < sm0kew0n> morning
122011:58 < sebt3> "loll files" worthy --- >https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/who-gave-urjaman-op-status-in-the-pyra-irc-channel.82381
122112:01 < Cloudef> urjaman is famous
122212:01 < Cloudef> "zmatt likes this." :D
122312:08 < comradekingu> Let him back in, JDTAY is the tay we deserve
122412:09 <@zmatt> note: I liked that *post*, that doesn't mean I like his presence here on irc :P
122512:10 < sebt3> comradekingu: I disagree we dont not deserve that much sillyness
122612:11 < sebt3> I had no issuen, when all his babilling was related to his game, but now, it's just crazyness for the sack of it and deserve better than that
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122912:15 < comradekingu> Its not as if hes talking when others are
123012:15 < comradekingu> Wait, nobody had a problem with him moaning, but when he is silly that is bad?
123112:29 <@EvilDragon> Ah... another "everyone steals from RetroArch"-Post.
123212:30 < comradekingu> stealing how?
123312:30 <@EvilDragon> I wonder if there are sane people at RetroArch you can contact.
123412:31 <@EvilDragon> comradekingu, See here: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/sega-dreamcast-saturn-and-mega-drive-hardware-coming-from-retro-bit-in-2018.82200/page-2#post-1429434
123512:31 <@EvilDragon> Especially my reply.
123612:31 < comradekingu> That bearded pirate avatar guy, forget his nick, hes on the neo900, isnt he from retroarch
123712:31 <@EvilDragon> My experiences with the RetroArch team has been horrible...
123812:32 <@EvilDragon> No idea :)
123912:32 <@EvilDragon> Well, "team"... with ONE contact from them, but he seems to be the one replying to all the licensing issues.
124012:33 <@EvilDragon> And he loves to reply to you like they are the developers of the emulators... but basically, they're just the developers of the wrapper :)
124112:33 <@EvilDragon> Impossible to work with the,.
124212:33 <@EvilDragon> them
124312:42 -!- |14557 [b025ca76@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.176.37.202.118] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
124412:42 < comradekingu> So he wants economic compensation in a scheme of protecting some parts by a non-commercial license
124512:43 < comradekingu> And is upset when someone breaks that license, understandably, but also when it is undermined, which is less understandable, but still within reason of what the original intent was
124612:46 < sebt3> EvilDragon: Do the retroarch team realise that most the emulator they provide have been brewed here ?
124712:47 < slaeshjag> tbh I don't think they even care :p
124812:48 < slaeshjag> I vaguely remember them cursing/slandering exo for making a good ds emulator and keeping the source closed
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125113:16 < Cloudef> Wasn't he thinking of making it open?
125213:16 < Cloudef> Anyhow I agree it's kind of shame to keep it closed
125313:16 <@EvilDragon> slaeshjag, Right, I already forgot about that :D
125413:17 < Cloudef> think the main reason was to disallow people making copycapts on google play
125513:18 <@EvilDragon> sebt3, Well, that's not true. Most of their included emulators are x86-based these days.
125613:19 < sebt3> picodrive, gpsp ....
125713:19 < sebt3> and even the others have got patches from this community
125813:20 <@EvilDragon> Well, yes, but these days, it's only a few ones. Their library of cores is huge now :)
125913:20 <@EvilDragon> But I have no idea why are excessively against commercial releases.
126013:22 < sebt3> I'm guessing that it's because most their core have licences forbiding any commercial release
126113:22 < sebt3> (like gpsp, snes9x and alike)
126213:23 < slaeshjag> No, based on their language, they have personal issues with it
126313:23 <@EvilDragon> It's only some cores. But then again, they could simply let the person asking for the license know and license their wrapper.
126413:24 <@EvilDragon> Sure, core license needs to be respected as well, but they could just let a potential customer know that and redirect them to the original emulator devs.
126513:25 <@EvilDragon> slaeshjag, Well, that would be totally fine as well :) But then you can let interested people know in a polite way, without shouting at them :)
126613:25 <@EvilDragon> Sure, it's annoying so many simply steal their code - but why shout at the ones who actually do want to work with you?
126713:29 < Cloudef> when will pyra be out
126813:29 <@EvilDragon> Cloudef, Well, CPU protoype PCBs haven been ordered, these should arrive in 5 - 6 Weeks I guess.
126913:29 < Cloudef> Cases were good?
127013:30 <@EvilDragon> I've yet to receive the new ones (christmas holidays) but should get them within the next two weeks.
127113:30 <@EvilDragon> Then we can produce these as well.
127213:30 <@EvilDragon> Mainboard seems to work well with all the fixes as well, it's only trying to find the correct capacitors combination to eliminate the sirring voice.
127313:31 <@EvilDragon> That won't need a redesign though, so theoretically, if we find the solution three days before the mass production, it would still work.
127413:32 <@EvilDragon> The prototypes are planned to be delivered to the prototype preorders... then give us a week or two for testing all the new boards thoroughly and then I'll order the mass production PCBs.
127513:32 <@EvilDragon> Parts are already all there :)
127613:32 < Cloudef> I hope all the parts are good
127713:32 < Cloudef> On the positive side, at least you have had time to tweak the main board :P
127813:33 < Cloudef> How's the modem attached into main board btw?
127913:33 < Cloudef> Could it be in theory updated
128013:33 -!- Storkman [~Storkman@storkman.xyz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
128113:34 <@EvilDragon> Cloudef, With a rework station, yes.
128213:34 <@EvilDragon> It has quite huge pads, so a rework wouldn't be too hard.
128313:34 <@EvilDragon> But there wasn't space for another plug-in solution, sadly.
128413:35 < Cloudef> I see
128513:35 < slaeshjag> I thought hns said it was difficult to solder with rework equipment?
128613:35 < Cloudef> Doesn't sound too bad though
128713:35 < dreamer> the hot air can blow away your components :P
128813:35 < dreamer> de-soldering is quite nice with hot air ;)
128913:35 <@EvilDragon> slaeshjag, The LTE module?
129013:35 <@EvilDragon> https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/attachments/p1000872-jpg.28089/
129113:36 <@EvilDragon> It has quite huge pins (left corner).
129213:36 <@EvilDragon> Though yes... the module has a huge metal surface, so it might be a bit harder to heat the pins.
129313:36 <@EvilDragon> Adding a module to a non-4G unit would be a lot easier :P
129413:36 < Cloudef> what's the production cost of main board?
129513:37 < Cloudef> (populated obviously) :P
129613:37 < dreamer> an arm and a leg
129713:37 < dreamer> !badum
129813:37 < dreamer> *ttssshh*
129913:37 < dTal> loooool
130013:37 < TrashyMG|omap5> EvilDragon, Dumb question, What is the best carrier to send my Pandora back to you that won't be kicked back from customs?
130113:38 < TrashyMG|omap5> again...
130213:38 < slaeshjag> (I assume you didn't forget to attach the customs declaration? :p)
130313:39 < TrashyMG|omap5> No I did, but apparently the courier forgot to inform EvilDragon.
130413:39 < TrashyMG|omap5> it was at customs and he needed to pick it up or something like that.
130513:40 < TrashyMG|omap5> DHL I believe
130613:41 <@EvilDragon> TrashyMG|omap5, Usually, USPS should be fine. Just follow the tracking and as soon as it arrives here, let me know.
130713:41 <@EvilDragon> I can then go to customs and pick it up, even if I have not been informed.
130813:41 <@EvilDragon> Cloudef, I don't know exactly yet, as I only have an offer for all boards together :)
130913:41 <@EvilDragon> Need to ask that for sure :)
131013:43 < Cloudef> EvilDragon: well that sort of already answers my "question". If somewhere in way future the gsm module is basically useless need to reflow it or produce new mainboard :P
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131314:24 < undexsym> EvilDragon, can I visit your home pls
131414:26 < undexsym> We could have tea and cake and do some LARPing in the woods
131514:27 <@EvilDragon> undexsym, Sure, why not?
131614:27 <@EvilDragon> I'd take coffee though.
131714:28 < undexsym> Coffee and coffee cake
131814:28 < undexsym> Cool, I'll bring an axe
131914:28 < aTc> instead of pandora boxes smelling like burning, we'll get pyra boxes smelling of coffee
132014:29 <@EvilDragon> aTc, What's better? :D
132114:29 < aTc> burning, i don't like coffee
132214:29  * aTc gets kicked off the pyra team
132314:29 <@EvilDragon> :D
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132614:35 < undexsym> I wouldn't mind a small sprinkle of ground coffee
132714:35 < undexsym> By wouldn't mind I mean demand
132814:35 < urjaman> sigh
132914:36 < aTc> i got a dog/ED hair with my pyra :)
133014:36 < undexsym> what's wrong brojaman
133114:38 < undexsym> EvilDragon, will you be assembling all those thousands of pyras by hand?
133214:38 < TrashyMG|omap5> My First Batch Pandora came with a distinct Cigarette smoke aroma.
133314:38 < urjaman> i dont mind the smell of coffee :P. but demanding actual coffee is a bit much lol
133414:39 < TrashyMG|omap5> undexsym, He had hired Global Components to do assembly for the Pandora, I'd think he would do the same for the Pyra.
133514:39 < undexsym> I deserve a kilo if coffee after actively waiting for 30 years
133614:39 < undexsym> of
133714:40 < TrashyMG|omap5> But likely the first bunch would be hand assembled by EvilDragon.
133814:40 < undexsym> Ah, that's good
133914:40 < TrashyMG|omap5> or Askarus
134014:40 < undexsym> Are they hand assembled by global components?
134114:41 < TrashyMG|omap5> likely, building automated methods of case assembly would be expensive.
134214:42 < undexsym> Yeah I thought as much
134314:48 < TrashyMG|omap5> Found EvilDragon: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/06/f0/b5/06f0b532505c5fe4f41efc151a899bd8--dragons-den-here-be-dragons.jpg
134414:48 < undexsym> EvilDragon, make some children to assemble the pyras
134514:49 < undexsym> TrashyMG, perfect
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134714:51 < dTal> I'd be happy to assemble my own
134814:51 < dTal> just send me the parts
134914:52 < dTal> of course it would probably take rather more effort packaging the individual components so they don't break, than simply assembling the thing and packing that :p
135014:53 < undexsym> it'd be easier and more fun to make those kids
135114:54 < dTal> but not faster, I wouldn't trust a child any younger than 4
135214:55 < dTal> plus you have to feed them at least a little
135314:56 < undexsym> They'll be 25 when the pyra's ready
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135514:58 < undexsym> Oops, I mean they'll be 7 months away from birth
135615:00 < bencoh> :]
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135915:19 < kaprikawn> thx sebt3 for the patch
136015:20 < kaprikawn> shell scripting isn't my forte
136115:20 < sebt3> well i though that would make the scrip way easier to read
136215:20 < kaprikawn> but then again neither is C++ :D
136315:20 < sebt3> even if, at that point I would just make a makefile myself :P
136415:22 < sebt3> as long as you practive your coding skill will improve
136515:23 -!- halosghost1 [~halosghos@mail.conklin.com] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
136615:23 < kaprikawn> yeah
136715:23 < kaprikawn> I'm too reliant on singletons at the minute
136815:24 < kaprikawn> I've flicked through design pattern books but they hurt my head
136915:25 -!- halosghost1 is now known as hgctl
137015:28 < sebt3> never mind the design for now
137115:28 < sebt3> make sure your code works ;)
137215:28 < urjaman> halosghostcontrol?
137315:29 < kaprikawn> that's what i figured - getting something out the door more important
137415:29 < hgctl> urjaman: hehe, yeah
137515:29 < sebt3> I've seen so many designs now, and yet, none have made me think that's the way forward
137615:29 < hgctl> urjaman: it used to be the nick I used for one of my IRC bots
137715:29 < sebt3> even JDTAY code style, while very surprising at 1st have its merit
137815:29 < hgctl> it's essentially what I use as a second login nick
137915:30 < sebt3> kaprikawn: what do you plan to do with your (growing) gles2 skills ?
138015:31 < sebt3> (because that triangle is nice, knowing that you can change the visual but just setting a normal is fun, but that doesnt make anything usefull or fun
138115:32 < kaprikawn> my goal is something like Starfox on the SNES
138215:32 < kaprikawn> same type of game
138315:32 < kaprikawn> same level of graphical quality
138415:32 < sebt3> ok
138515:32 < kaprikawn> i.e. simple polygons
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138715:32 < kaprikawn> i'm hoping that will be managable
138815:32 < sebt3> the pyra can handle way better than starfox, but I get your point : you're not a 3D designer :P
138915:33 < kaprikawn> no - but I'm eager to learn
139015:34 < sebt3> you've still to learn a lot (perspective, lighting, matrix maths...), but your blog is nice and i'll continu to read it ;)
139115:35 < kaprikawn> thx - but isn't it a bit under your level of skill :)
139215:36 < kaprikawn> ?
139315:36 < aTc> it makes him feel really smart
139415:37 < sebt3> kaprikawn: dont think i'm that smart :P
139515:37 <@EvilDragon> undexsym, Nope, GC will assemble them.
139615:38 < sebt3> I do understand gles2, but i've yet to do anything realy 3D with it, never used lighting either
139715:38 <@EvilDragon> TrashyMG|omap5, Prototypes will be hand-assembled, yes.
139815:38 -!- jkridner [~jkridner@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
139915:38 < sebt3> kaprikawn: when I got my pandora, I was just like you : no prior (real) coding skillz
140015:38 < sebt3> all I know, I've learned it here
140115:38 < sebt3> ;)
140215:38 < ptitSeb|Work> me too :)
140315:39 < kaprikawn> everyone starts somewhere
140415:39 < sebt3> ptitSeb|Work: Coding is your job...
140515:39 < ptitSeb|Work> it wasn't
140615:39 < sebt3> hooo :D
140715:39 < ptitSeb|Work> when I got my Pandora, I was a project manager...
140815:39 < sebt3> yeah indeed I forgot that
140915:39 < kaprikawn> coding is my job too but you can't build games with perl and pl/sql
141015:39 < ptitSeb|Work> not really doing programming
141115:40 < dTal> kaprikawn: of course you can!
141215:40 < slaeshjag> kaprikawn: There's a loonie a couple channels over doing VR stuff in perl...
141315:40 < sebt3> kaprikawn: you would be surprised, there many games writen in perl
141415:40 < ptitSeb|Work> and as a mater of fact, I got my current job as a software developper because of everything I have done with the Pandora :)
141515:40 < ptitSeb|Work> (I was super bored of Project Manager)
141615:40 < sebt3> and i've done many funk-y things with pl/sql
141715:40 < kaprikawn> it's a scripting language - what am i missing?
141815:41 < sebt3> but yeah, no games
141915:41 < ptitSeb|Work> a game in pl/sql... the "runtime" will be a bit heavy I guess :p
142015:41 < sebt3> kaprikawn: I know a pang clone written in perl, and frozen bobble is perl too
142115:41 < kaprikawn> is that with perl 6?
142215:41 < kaprikawn> i'm on 5
142315:41 < sebt3> 5.6
142415:42 < sebt3> even before I think
142515:42 < kaprikawn> oh
142615:42 < sebt3> ptitSeb|Work: No games in PL per see, but I could easily do a web game in pl/sql + javascript
142715:43 < sebt3> (using apex)
142815:43 < sebt3> I could even do a 3D game, but you would argue that's a javascript game at that point
142915:44 < sebt3> (which wouldnt be false as the pl would only be the backend)
143015:44 < ptitSeb|Work> yeah, you will probably not use pl/sql much
143115:44 < ptitSeb|Work> to store / retreive Hiscore :p
143215:44 < urjaman> perl 6 is a totally different beast from perl 5 :P
143315:45 < sebt3> anyway time to back off to home
143415:45 < sebt3> bye :P
143515:47 < ptitSeb|Work> bye
143615:49 < undexsym> wot
143715:50 < undexsym> I'm hearing gles2 talk
143815:51 < kaprikawn> here?
143915:52 < undexsym> yeah
144015:52 < kaprikawn> if so it's in reference to my post - https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/learning-opengl-es-2-0-for-pyra.82380/
144115:52 < kaprikawn> I'm learning it
144215:52 < kaprikawn> and have written a blog about the start of it
144315:52 < kaprikawn> only useful if you're a beginner
144416:04 < undexsym> kewl
144516:04 < undexsym> you should a better version of no man's sky
144616:04 < undexsym> should make
144716:10 < kaprikawn> isn't that voxels?
144816:10 < hgctl> Planet Nomads?
144916:10 < hgctl> :P
145016:10 < kaprikawn> i don't even know what category of technology voxels are
145116:11 < kaprikawn> do you create voxels using opengl / d3d3?
145216:12 < TrashyMG|omap5> hopefully Planet Nomads got better...
145316:12 < TrashyMG|omap5> last time I played it, it was pretty abysmal.
145416:12 < kaprikawn> anyway - i think that's a little beyond my meagre skills
145516:14 < kaprikawn> this is the first time I've heard of Planet Nomads
145616:14 < kaprikawn> it hasn't got David Bowie in it
145716:14 < kaprikawn> so it can't be good
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145916:18 < undexsym> Creating something slightly better than no man's sky is a good first project
146016:19 < kaprikawn> because no man's sky was shit and you'd want to make something that isn't shit?
146116:27 < undexsym> exactly
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146416:58 < JonnyH> zmatt: performance wise 543 and 544 are pretty much the same
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146817:04 < hgctl> heh
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147418:36 < Cloudef> undexsym: are you bouncing off cloudef.pw again?
147518:37 < urjaman> no he is not
147618:37 < Cloudef> urjaman: you spy
147718:37 < undexsym> Shall I try?
147818:37 < urjaman> i whois
147918:37 < Cloudef> undexsym: should work
148018:37 -!- Hexagenic [~Hexagenic@81-237-140-201-no71.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
148118:37 < undexsym-> YES
148218:38 < undexsym-> YEEEEEEEEES
148318:38 < undexsym-> Cloudef, m8 with me m8
148418:38 -!- undexsym [~undexsym3@94.197.121.121.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Bye]
148518:38 < Cloudef> I'm going to mate with my right hand soon
148618:38 -!- undexsym- is now known as undexsym
148718:38 -!- pere [~pere@cm-84.213.19.114.getinternet.no] has joined #dragonbox-pyra
148818:38 < Cloudef> Also at some point I have to buy some hardware for backup server if it goes down in future :P
148918:39 < urjaman> TMI
149018:39 < undexsym> Think of me
149118:39 < urjaman> Cloudef: so you're self-hosting now?
149218:39 < Cloudef> nah, it's still running on jyv?skyl? :D
149318:39 < Cloudef> but I have backups now
149418:40 < undexsym> he's only self-touching
149518:40 < urjaman> -.-
149618:40 < undexsym> (:
149719:05 < aTc> just get a cheap vps somewhere
149819:06 < aTc> i think mine cost less than the electricity my old home server used
149919:12 < urjaman> well, after cloud@cost ate my server disk, i'm not eager to use them again
150019:13 < urjaman> so dont get too cheap
150119:13 < Cloudef> only one you can trust is yourself
150219:13 < Cloudef> for uptime, integrity and privacy :P
150319:14 < Cloudef> when I'm motivated, I move the static sites to ipfs most likely
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151220:48 < Wally> Good to have you back undexsym :)
151320:51 < Wally> aTc a lot of the VPS's i've looked at are expensive as all hell
151420:51 < aTc> that's because you're in australia
151520:51 < Wally> hah.
151620:52 < undexsym> (:
151720:52 < Wally> VPS's in the US are expensive too
151820:53 < Wally> I guess you mean a small one?
151920:53 < aTc> you don't need that much to host a simple site and some tools
152020:53 < aTc> not unless you want to use windows server as the os
152120:54 < Wally> Yeah true
152220:54 < cryptonix2> 3-7$
152320:54 < Wally> cryptonix2 https://www.pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/who-gave-urjaman-op-status-in-the-pyra-irc-channel.82381/#post-1429447 he's gone batshit crazy
152420:56 < cryptonix2> nice free game
152520:56 < Wally> He's not allowed back
152620:57 < aTc> and for most stuff just having webhosting is enough, and you can get that even cheaper
152720:57 < Cloudef> social media was a mistake
152820:57 < Wally> Cloudef I agree
152920:57 < aTc> nah, it'll take a few decades for the world to adjust
153020:59 < Wally> I mean kids are now eating laundry detergent..
153120:59 < undexsym> Wally, please.
153220:59 < aTc> then again...
153320:59 < aTc> "Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."
153420:59 < undexsym> Just ban him
153520:59 < Wally> undexsym yeah it's coming
153620:59 < Wally> One more day of stewing
153720:59 < comradekingu> his shitposting is next level
153821:00 < Wally> hahaha. I love your post comradekingu
153921:00 < urjaman> Wally, btw the irc ban was by IP (well, DNS name...) and not nick ...
154021:00 < comradekingu> he is the laundry detergent pod we must all drink from
154121:00 < Wally> urjaman, the problem is
154221:00 < Wally> his Ip changes
154321:00 < Wally> I changed it to nick
154421:00 < Wally> he can't seem to figure that out so
154521:00 < urjaman> good
154621:00 < comradekingu> You end up fighting yourself
154721:01 < Wally> You do
154821:01 < Wally> I don't want to touch his pizza
154921:01 < Wally> I remember trying to order him some pizza
155021:01 < urjaman> wtf
155121:01 < Wally> I wanted to be the nice guy..
155221:02 < Wally> then.. He started a spout of bullshit and left
155321:02 < Wally> so
155421:02 < undexsym> ??
155521:03 < Wally> I think that's what happened anyway, maybe it was all just in my head
155621:03 < Wally> Struggling
155721:04 < comradekingu> What is the greater issue, is anything bothering you?
155821:05 < Wally> comradekingu, work and projects i've bombarded myself wth
155921:05 < aTc> blah, no emmc with the latest kernel
156021:06 < comradekingu> It seems to be a problem that feeds itself
156121:07 < Wally> comradekingu indeed
156221:07 < Wally> I try to get organised
156321:07 < Wally> Something breaks
156421:07 < Wally> It's that time of year
156521:07 < Wally> I mean the curtains break because I put a blanket over them.. Not realising it was anchored to the plaster
156621:07 < Wally> At least I know how to install blinds now
156721:07 < Wally> heh
156821:09 < comradekingu> Have you always had a low threshold for chaos?
156921:09 < Wally> No
157021:10 < Wally> I like to be organised
157121:10 < buZz> we all like the unobtainable
157221:10 < Wally> I think the biggest battle right now is finding a place to settle in to
157321:11 < comradekingu> Does this organisation also include some level of control?
157421:11 < Wally> Oh you know me. I like to be in absolute control of things
157521:11 < Wally> I need more time away from computers tbh
157621:11 < comradekingu> Absolute control scales very badly beyond a certain point
157721:12 < Wally> Yeah. control of my own life :P
157821:12 < Wally> I think the prime issue is work though
157921:12 < Wally> I mean i've done quite a number of years doing stupid shit
158021:12 < Wally> I'm ready to move up
158121:12 < Wally> but there's no next level here at RMIT, so when i get back from leave i'm considering alternatives
158221:13 < comradekingu> I am saying if you try to control all aspects of it, the forever engulfing areas where you cant end up encroaching your control
158321:13 < Wally> BTW I'm reading your text as the voice of dumbledore.
158421:13 < comradekingu> In turn possibly feeding into a system where the problem becomes the perceived solution
158521:13 < Wally> or some random wizard
158621:13 < Wally> Yeah I learnt that the hard way
158721:14 < Wally> also... I throw out some cable, I need it again in a month because someone throws me old hardware to look at -_-
158821:15 < comradekingu> Try finding a venue where you can stress yourself enough to enjoy the relaxation of not being in control
158921:15 < Wally> I need this holiday
159021:15 < Wally> Compiling :D
159121:16 < Wally> Thank you though comradekingu :)
159221:16 < Wally> #needstogetoutoftheserviceindustry
159321:16 < comradekingu> This is a bit dangerous, because it feeds into distrusting yourself over what is ultimately a concept of control, which you may fall victim to.
159421:17 < Wally> Don't get me wrong, i'm keeping my level of control down.
159521:17 < Wally> I think JDTAY is just too stressful
159621:17 < Wally> He's gone
159721:17 < Wally> we can relax
159821:18 < comradekingu> I do the old-cable is new-cable too, because it is a selection bias. I dont feel as good about making the good decisions, and they pale in comparison to what amounts to emphasising negative events
159921:18 < comradekingu> I am very relaxed around JDTAY, because I get what he is about
160021:18 < Wally> lol
160121:18 < Wally> cables are horrible
160221:19 < comradekingu> Do you want me to break down his latest forum posts?
160321:19 < Wally> No.
160421:19 < Wally> I know he's having a mental breakdown somewhere
160521:19 < Wally> it's not appropriate for IRC
160621:19 < Wally> or the forums \
160721:19 < comradekingu> He seems much healthier now
160821:19 < Wally> Yeah bullshit
160921:20 < comradekingu> As opposed to when he was complaining about his whole scenario
161021:20 < Wally> He's still complaining about his whole scenario
161121:21 < Cloudef> https://cloudef.pw/random/lunacore.webm
161221:21 < comradekingu> The cable need graph tracks relevance, drops below throw-away right before relevance shoots up.
161321:21 < Wally> okay now you're confusing me
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162021:26 < comradekingu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Pataphysics
162121:26 < Wally> I'm always worried about running out of space whether it be digital or physical
162221:27 < Wally> always optimising
162321:28 < undexsym2> awesome
162421:28 < undexsym2> cloudef.pw is up again
162521:28 < Wally> yay
162621:28 < Wally> cloudef POW
162721:29 < Cloudef> undexsym2: cloudef would not be here otherwise
162821:29 < undexsym2> maaaaaan you're so good at drawing
162921:30 < cryptonix2> http://www.virtualopensystems.com/en/solutions/guides/vfio-on-arm/
163021:30 < Cloudef> undexsym2: not really
163121:31 < Cloudef> undexsym2: also you want to browse /drawing-nsfw instead
163221:31 < undexsym2> that's all I browse
163321:31 < Wally> lol
163421:32 < undexsym2> I would say your humility surpasses your drawing, but that's not true
163521:32 < undexsym2> please teach me
163621:32 < Cloudef> undexsym2: buy a drawing tablet, get motivation, draw
163721:32 < Cloudef> or just paper & pen
163821:33 < undexsym2> what was that website?
163921:33 < undexsym2> begins with p
164021:33 < Cloudef> only advice I can really give is to try sketch the whole idea on paper fully first. As that's your engineering step where you try to figure out basic shapes, pose and perspective
164121:33 < Wally> JDTAY is pulling the same shit he does on here.
164221:34 < Cloudef> but it's the most important advice
164321:34 < Wally> undexsym2 does it end in hub?
164421:34 -!- tarator [~Thunderbi@84-113-5-52.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: tarator]
164521:34 < undexsym2> nah, I'm familiar with that one
164621:34 < cryptonix2> idk why he thinks he needs to join a channel to chat to other people
164721:35 < undexsym2> Cloudef, it has lots of poses for anatomy practice on it
164821:35 < Wally> cryptonix2 i'm assuming either psychotic, lonely or both
164921:35 < Cloudef> undexsym2: don't remember anymore
165021:35 < Wally> He actually mentioned he got banned from gamefaqs
165121:35 < undexsym2> damn
165221:35 < undexsym2> I think it had video or podcast tutorials
165321:36 < undexsym2> I remember the guy saying "move the whole arm, not just the hand" or something like that
165421:36 < Wally> I want to find out why he got banned
165521:36 < undexsym2> Wally, probably for the same shit
165621:36 < undexsym2> this is the only community I've ever seen that doesn't punish people who clearly beg for it
165721:36 < Cloudef> undexsym2: those are bad teachings imo, they depend on person
165821:37 < undexsym2> Cloudef, my delts can take it
165921:37 < undexsym2> actually, I never tried it
166021:37 < Cloudef> also depends on what you are drawing, what you are drawing on and what tools you use :P
166121:37 < undexsym2> I've only really used pencil and paper
166221:37 < undexsym2> A4
166321:38 < Cloudef> undexsym2: just think of what you want to draw and try to shape it primitively as possible first
166421:38 < Cloudef> then work from there
166521:41 < undexsym2> perspective is hard
166621:41 < Cloudef> that's why you figure it out first
166721:41 < undexsym2> it's easy for basic shapes but then I try applying it to human anatomy and it all falls apart
166821:43 < undexsym2> I guess I need more anatomy practice
166921:43 < undexsym2> which brings me back to that damn website
167021:43 < Cloudef> just draw random lines until it looks right
167121:43 < Cloudef> undexsym2: http://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/1981026 just look at the first iteration on this work
167221:44 -!- Hexagenic [~Hexagenic@81-237-140-201-no71.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
167321:46 < undexsym2> even the first iteration shows a very good understanding of the basic shapes a human body makes in that position
167421:46 < Cloudef> the lower body looks wrong
167521:47 < Cloudef> he fucked it up on some detail step
167621:47 < Cloudef> on 8th iteratio
167721:48 < Cloudef> n
167821:48 < Cloudef> but he still draws better than me
167921:48 < Cloudef> s/he/they/
168021:49 < Cloudef> urjaman: did you just make forum post
168121:52 < urjaman> Cloudef: yes
168221:59 < Cloudef> B-ZaR: has wars.bzar.fi always passed username and password as query parameters :D?
168322:01 < cryptonix2> Wally: it says he closed his account
168422:02 < Wally> cryptonix2 yeah I think it might be opposite
168522:03 < Wally> undexsym2 yeah i know. I know
168622:03 < Wally> We don't hae proper access to ban tools though
168722:03 < Wally> urjaman what movie is that gif from anyway
168822:04 < Cloudef> Wally: you haven't seen star wars?
168922:04 < urjaman> some star wars i suppose ... it was on giphy
169022:04 < urjaman> i just searched for evil and picked something i liked :P
169122:10 < Wally> Cloudef yeah I have
169222:10 < Wally> It looked rather familiar, couldn't pin point it
169322:11 < Wally> Is this episode 2, attack of the clones?
169422:11 < Cloudef> 3
169522:11 < Cloudef> I don't even particularily like star wars and I know it better :P
169622:11 < Wally> Ah never saw episode 3
169722:12 < Wally> I probably should watch that
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170523:34 < BlueMaxima> Wally when you show up PM me
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170723:51 < Cloudef> https://cloudef.pw/armpit/full-experience.png
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1709--- Log closed Tue Jan 16 00:00:04 2018