· 6 years ago · Sep 28, 2019, 05:36 PM
1Jeroz at 12:12 PM
2Meetup Sep 27th. 2019 AGENDA
3
4Devs / Community members approached before meeting:
5Under, Blondfrogs, Traysi, Push, Mangofarm, Spyderdev, Pho3nixMonk3y, Scotty, Bianca, Ondalf, Wukong (https://www.ravenplatform.com/ - dev meeting reviews), RealBokito, Boatsandhoes, StandardError.
6
7Topics:
8OCT 1 2019 Fork (30 min)
9-Ravencoin wallet status
10-Core Wallets
11-Mobile Wallet support: ETA?
12-Mobile Wallet support: How to reclaim rvn/assets if people do not update?
13-Third party Status (exchanges / wallets).
14-Possible scenarios around the fork
15-Electrum
16
17More 'trusted' github moderators? (10 min)
18-Under: concerned about forked repositories that need more timely security updates (potential double work)
19-Jeroz: Website and Mobile wallet repositories receive little attention and responses to issues.
20
21General Updates (5 min)
22-Jeroz: Raspberry Pi Raven Core GUI available:
23Main net: https://github.com/jeroz1/jeroz-Ravencoin/tree/2.5.1-ARM-GUI
24Test net: https://github.com/jeroz1/jeroz-Ravencoin/tree/develop
25Binaries coming soon (Under's static build pipeline tested and working).
26- Other updates?
27
28General Q&A (15 min)
29- Ondalf: x16rv2 is soon done. What next?
30- Under: Plans for upstream merges from bitcoin
31- Under: Greater modularity of raven codebase customizations
32- Ondalf: is there anyone with anti-spam bot experience for telegram?
33- RealBokito: Let's start a Ravencoin mailing list for updates, issues, etc
34- Other
35
36Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:01 PM
37Should be open now
38
39push | ravenland.org at 4:01 PM
40:blobwavepeek:
41
42Jeroz at 4:01 PM
43Welcome :slight_smile:
44
45Tron at 4:01 PM
46Hi everyone!
47
48boatsandhoes at 4:01 PM
49hello
50
51push | ravenland.org at 4:01 PM
52hey !
53
54Stoner at 4:01 PM
55hi
56
57Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:01 PM
58Greetings.
59
60x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos) at 4:02 PM
61Curious question: As I understand it the x16rv2 will be adding tiger before 3 specific algos. Is it possible to add 4 different algos in front of all the algos? So tiger would be a combo with Luffa512, Keccak512, SHA512, and another. Then another new algo not already in x16r combined with say BLAKE, BMW, Groestl, JH and so on with the remaining algos.
62
63Another question that snowballed is can we randomize a bank of 4 or even 16 algos to combo the already randomized 16 algos? 64 - 256 possible combinations. We can call it x16r²
64
65Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:02 PM
66Catchy
67
68push | ravenland.org at 4:02 PM
69heh x16r² hah
70
71Tron at 4:03 PM
72@x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos) I love the name x16r²
73
74boatsandhoes at 4:03 PM
75^second
76
77Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:03 PM
785000 IQ idea
79
80Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:03 PM
81When Asics come to x16rv2 what are we gonna do? Fork again? What's the master plan?
82
83JustAResearcher at 4:03 PM
84Yes what IS the plan
85
86Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:03 PM
87I think what's next is part of today's conversation
88If you look at the agenda
89
90Under at 4:04 PM
91hey!
92
93Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:04 PM
94:ah:
95
96push | ravenland.org at 4:04 PM
97hey under ! :peepoHappyLove:
98
99coldworld2k19 at 4:04 PM
100X16rv3 is the plan
101
102Jeroz at 4:04 PM
103Just wanted to kick off with saying: I hope everyone likes the set up. I spoke to a bunch of devs and mode an agenda for the meet. Lets see how it goes and ill appoint someone else for the kawwrdinator, and so on.
104
105LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:04 PM
106x16rv2 squared obviously.
107
108boatsandhoes at 4:04 PM
109huge fan of the new meeting format
110
111Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:04 PM
112Very corporate.
113
114Jeroz at 4:05 PM
115I think the most important topic right now is checking where we are at for the fork next week
116
117push | ravenland.org at 4:05 PM
118yes
119
120traysi ? at 4:05 PM
121We're just waiting for Oct 1st and 1600 UTC and all the magic will occur on its own
122
123Jeroz at 4:05 PM
124Ive seen a lot of questions about the mobile wallets. What is the ETA on those?
125
126push | ravenland.org at 4:06 PM
127what is the recommended procedure for exchanges, and services using ravencoin 2.x or 3.x
128
129Jeroz at 4:06 PM
130And will raven classic wallet also get an update?
131
132Tron at 4:06 PM
133Algo changes requiring a hard fork are very disruptive - both to the development schedule towards the roadmap, and to every exchange, and wallet creator.
134Android RVN Wallet Classic wallet will not get an upgrade.
135Transfer your RVN to the newest Android RVN Wallet (once released).
136
137Under at 4:07 PM
138are we finding that exchanges upgrade wallets on a slower cycle even for non hardfork upgrades?
139
140DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:07 PM
141how if its in the android wallet today?
142
143traysi ? at 4:07 PM
144If you absolutely must have a mobile wallet you can use safepay which is confirmed ready for the fork
145
146DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:07 PM
147transfer to QT wallet?
148
149push | ravenland.org at 4:07 PM
150we are prepared but i wanted to hear what official recommendation is. we shall go into maintenance, and do upgrade inplace. should we wait for all clear, or proceed as soon as new version installed
151i am erring on side of caution
152
153Tron at 4:08 PM
154@DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) You can install both wallets and just send from one to the other before Oct 1 16:00 UTC
155Or send to QT wallet.
156
157push | ravenland.org at 4:08 PM
158should exchanges upgrade well before oct 1, or wait
159i notice 3.2.0 works on mainnet at present
160
161DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:08 PM
162ugg... mobile wallet was where i was collecting my spam tokens
163
164Tron at 4:08 PM
165Safest is to transfer to the qt. Hunker down, and wait for the all-clear.
166
167Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:09 PM
168Why aren't we engaging the entire community for the Dev Meeting Agenda?
169
170Tron at 4:09 PM
171Exchanges should upgrade to 2.5.1 as soon as possible. Most have already reported that they have.
172
173Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:09 PM
174devs were engaged lol
175
176push | ravenland.org at 4:09 PM
1772.5.1 , i thought it was 3.2.0 , no?
178
179Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:09 PM
180And we're adding reply protection, right?
181
182Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:09 PM
183Everybody is invited to attend these meetings
184
185Tron at 4:09 PM
186If anyone knows of any exchanges that haven't upgraded their nodes to 2.5.1, please let them know in any way you can.
187
188Jeroz at 4:10 PM
189@Under i think it feels slower, but I am amazed how much we could reach out to exhanges and third party wallets. A bunch of community members have been reaching out to many of the exchanges and third party wallets.
190
191I tried to keep the following up to date all the time:
192
193Third party wallet list with update info:
194https://raven.wiki/wiki/Wallets#Active
195Exchange list with update info:
196https://raven.wiki/wiki/Exchange#Current_Exchanges
197
198push | ravenland.org at 4:10 PM
199i guess 3.2.0 includes the extra asset functions
200
201Under at 4:10 PM
2023.2.0 is for testnet only
203not ready for primetime
204
205[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:10 PM
206that is correct
207
208push | ravenland.org at 4:10 PM
209ok. damn, we run 3.2.0 on ravencoinOS right now
210we should run 3.0 or 2.5.1?
211
212LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:11 PM
213Same goes for pools as exchange wallets if not already changed over they need to....
214
215[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:11 PM
216You should be fine @push | ravenland.org I will double check for you
217
218push | ravenland.org at 4:11 PM
219it is okay it is just a recompile away, i will take that one offline with jeroz and others
220
221Tron at 4:11 PM
2223.2 for testnet 2.5.1 for mainnet
223
224Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:11 PM
225^
226
227push | ravenland.org at 4:11 PM
228thanks @[Dev] Blondfrogs its RavenX that is biggest concern, i think it running 3.0
229
230traysi ? at 4:11 PM
2313.2 is fine for mainnet though but it's better to use 2.5.1 for production
232
233DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:11 PM
234is there a wallet that i can just recover my android seed words into and resume life from there?
235
236push | ravenland.org at 4:12 PM
237does 3.0 include the necessary algs for the fork
238@[Dev] Blondfrogs we can take this 'offline' from meeting if you want
239
240[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:12 PM
241@push | ravenland.org 3.2.0 should be okay to use. However, we would suggest all other users be on 2.5.1
242
243Jeroz at 4:12 PM
2443.0 does not contain x16rv2 afaik
245
246[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:12 PM
247it does
248
249push | ravenland.org at 4:12 PM
250yeah, for ravencoinOS I was going to throw in 3.2.0 but , maybe we can recompile on 2.5.1
251
252Jeroz at 4:12 PM
253sorry typo @[Dev] Blondfrogs I meant 3.0
254
255push | ravenland.org at 4:13 PM
256@[Dev] Blondfrogs i'll check the PR's with you in pm, i think you know what we are running right now
257if its not too much trouble
258just want to be sure
259dont want to think we are okay and find ourselvs on the wrong chain heheh
260
261[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:13 PM
262YEha. lets proceed with the discussion at hand and move that convo to DM
263
264push | ravenland.org at 4:13 PM
265:thumbsup:
266
267traysi ? at 4:13 PM
268I'm running 3.2 on minermore
269
270Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:13 PM
271This a community coin or a developer coin?
272
273Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:14 PM
274Let’s. Not start this @Jeroz set this up and is not not with overstock he is the community
275
276Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:14 PM
277Just asking... Do we wanna go down the Technocracy route of ETH?
278
279LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:15 PM
280This is a developer meeting that is open to the community. Do you want a separate community meeting? @Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper set it up........
281
282Stoner at 4:15 PM
283what about reply
284
285Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:15 PM
286Ok @Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper plz update us on what to do for the fork. Are we adding reply protection? Thx.
287
288Jeroz at 4:15 PM
289@Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper I saw your concern. I tried to cover that by asking everyone to reach out if they had any questions or concerns for the meet. If you like we can move that convo to Q&A or later in thenest.
290
291Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:15 PM
292@LSJI07 - MBIT No, it's a development meeting
293
294traysi ? at 4:15 PM
295let's move on with the agenda @Jeroz
296
297Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:15 PM
298Hi guys .. whats the agenda ?
299
300Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:15 PM
301Scroll up
302
303Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:15 PM
304sorry I joint late
305
306Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:15 PM
307scroll up
308
309DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:15 PM
310hash out the "meeting issues/concerns" in the nest
311
312Jeroz at 4:16 PM
313Yes, are there any questions and/or concerns with respect to third party wallets and exchanges?
314
315Bianca_NL at 4:16 PM
316agree next topic :slight_smile:
317
318boatsandhoes at 4:16 PM
319:100:
320
321DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:16 PM
322is there a wallet i can recover my seed words into from the Roshi android version?
323sounds like it wont be upgraded?
324
325Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:16 PM
326@Jeroz Word, I didn't see anything personally, thx for making the attempt to reach out to the entire community, hopefully that'll continue moving forward ✌️
327
328traysi ? at 4:16 PM
329ElectrumX server has been updated but the desktop client has not. If you're using Electrum just be aware of that. Keep your seed words safe.
330
331Tron at 4:17 PM
332@DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) We hope to have an Android RVN Wallet soon. Uploading to Play Store today.
333
334DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:17 PM
335hoping to not have to do a bunch of transfers
336
337SpyderDev at 4:17 PM
338@DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) - There will be new wallet versions very soon. Hopefully today. We will be at the mercy of Apple in the app store for approval.
339
340push | ravenland.org at 4:17 PM
341i have been asked by @Jeroz to add electrumX server support into ravencoinOS, can anyone recommend good guide to this? or provide me an overview of it? heh being a bit cheeky here i have limitd time
342
343DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:17 PM
344awesome sauce
345
346push | ravenland.org at 4:17 PM
347help appreciated, as we have 2 branches of ravencoinOS to maintain now
348rpi4+ and the rpi2/3+
349
350Jeroz at 4:18 PM
351@push | ravenland.org
352
353StandardError: Electrumx Server has been updated for the x16rv2 fork. If you run a server you will need to update your installation to maintain compatibility with Raven core 2.5.1 otherwise will break on Oct 1st https://github.com/kyuupichan/electrumx/commit/b35d23e02f95ad1f29dd88d5d3253709b0fb56b9
354
355theking at 4:18 PM
356I purchased some RVN on the Tzero App but it says it wont be available till next week to move.... Is teh Tzero app updated or do I need to get it off somehow?
357
358Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:18 PM
359takes time for funds to settle up and raven to arrive
360
361Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:18 PM
362tzero is updated.
363
364Jeroz at 4:18 PM
365Tzero is updaed
366
367Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:18 PM
368Just want to say like the work on ravenos keep up the good work
369
370Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:19 PM
371okay question about pools .. should I remove old blockchain and resync after upgrade to x16rv2 ?
372
373Under at 4:19 PM
374Whom wil be the primary maintainer of the Android and iOS wallets @SpyderDev ?
375
376Tron at 4:19 PM
377TZero wallet is updated.
378
379push | ravenland.org at 4:19 PM
380ahh @Jeroz ok we can take that 'offline'
381https://imgur.com/kAxOW5m
382
383we are nearly ready for release of the rpi4 compatible 'buster' release of ravencoinOS
384
385J. | ravenland.org at 4:20 PM
386:patrick:
387
388push | ravenland.org at 4:20 PM
389ravenXtools have been substantially altered
390
391[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:20 PM
392@Under I have taken that responsibility at the moment until someone else does.
393
394push | ravenland.org at 4:20 PM
395extra security and ease added to change rpi user, and enable/disable vnc and ssh service
396
397Stoner at 4:20 PM
398@push | ravenland.org great
399
400push | ravenland.org at 4:20 PM
401though raspi-config can do this, it is a bit easier
402also note jeroz has kindly got qt5 compatibility working on arm32
403
404Tron at 4:20 PM
405@[Muten] roshii is always welcome.
406
407push | ravenland.org at 4:20 PM
408BOOYA well done mate @Jeroz
409
410Under at 4:20 PM
411@[Dev] Blondfrogs bully bully! thank you.
412
413push | ravenland.org at 4:21 PM
414happy to see UI working on ARM32 :peepoHappyLove:
415
416Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:21 PM
417so cool
418
419Jeroz at 4:21 PM
420Alright, that covers all but one of the fork topics. Last one that I wrote down: what scenarios can we expect around the fork? Can we expect any issues? How will we communicate them?
421
422Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:21 PM
423my 2.5.1 build synced up overnight btw
424Jeroz.
425
426Tron at 4:21 PM
427The nest and telegram for updates on Oct 1.
428
429Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:22 PM
430slow, but steady. ended up copying chain data from my laptop to speed i tup
431
432push | ravenland.org at 4:22 PM
433ravenland looking for some help maintaining their mirror service, or at least with some of the code. we need to chase the ipfs guys about a lack of native ipfs pin job management. i dont think its right writing our own solutions for managing pin jobs. but im happy to do it for the meantime. because hey adding a text file of hashes to ipfs isnt as straightforward as you might think :joy:
434at least not on an ARM device :joy:
435
436Bianca_NL at 4:22 PM
437The nest and telegram :thumbup::skin-tone-1:
438
439DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:22 PM
440i expect a lot of questions about how to reclaim coins from wallets, and about claiming forked coins
441
442Under at 4:22 PM
443Workload seems a bit rough for frogs as core dev/ api framework dev / mobile OS dev ....how are dev resources looking these days ?
444
445Tron at 4:22 PM
446We can all monitor progress and we can fix anything that becomes a problem. We'll be online.
447
448Bianca_NL at 4:22 PM
449great Tron
450
451DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:22 PM
452muh wallet isn't syncing type stuff
453
454Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:23 PM
455We will have as many devs as we can in #thenest and #helpdesk to help out on the 1st
456
457Tron at 4:23 PM
458There's plenty that can go wrong. Mostly unknown unknowns.
459Like "Dust"
460
461DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:23 PM
462^
463
464Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:23 PM
465lol
466
467push | ravenland.org at 4:23 PM
468maybe it is good advice to put exchanges in maintenance
469
470Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:23 PM
471not agaiiiin
472
473push | ravenland.org at 4:23 PM
474until confirmation can be made
475
476Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:23 PM
477And we're adding replay protection?
478
479Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:23 PM
480Have the devs forked the algo to testnet? Did that go as planed?
481
482push | ravenland.org at 4:23 PM
483i think we will go to maintenance for a few hours
484to confirm fork went as planned
485
486Tron at 4:23 PM
487We are not adding replay protection to the upgrade.
488
489push | ravenland.org at 4:23 PM
490before renabling our api
491i think it is the best thing to do considering circumstances
492
493Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:24 PM
494Yikes.
495
496Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:24 PM
497testnet forked on sept 3
498
499push | ravenland.org at 4:24 PM
500to those that wanted the fork, understand, this is why it was slightly resisted, it is not a trivial change happening
501
502Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:24 PM
503Any problems or went good
504
505russ | ban sevvy at 4:24 PM
506no need to add replay protection when nobody is going to be using ravenclassic anyways @Seppat (not un-sober)
507
508Stoner at 4:24 PM
509thank you for replay answer
510
511Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:24 PM
512if you spend your coins, move them on both chains
513
514Tron at 4:24 PM
515You can make your own replay protection by mixing some post-Oct 1 mined RVN when sending pre-Oct 1 RVN. Same for any "classic" chain.
516
517Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:24 PM
518replay protection
519
520Stoner at 4:25 PM
521yes agree Tron
522
523Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:25 PM
524@Joemarket (ban sevvy) so far so good
525
526DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:25 PM
527can someone give the tl:dr on replay protection?
528
529Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:25 PM
530I'll DM you
531
532Tron at 4:25 PM
533Anyone planning on selling all their RVN for RVC?
534
535DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:25 PM
536lol
537
538russ | ban sevvy at 4:25 PM
539meeeeeeeeee
540
541Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:25 PM
542:joy:
543
544Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:25 PM
545lol goood
546
547Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:25 PM
548:rvn_R: :rvn_E: :rvn_E: :rvn_E:
549
550push | ravenland.org at 4:25 PM
551not really. and i was for asics
552
553Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:25 PM
554not even the RVNC guys are going to do that
555
556push | ravenland.org at 4:25 PM
557:smile:
558quite happy with my RVN :peepoHappyLove:
559
560DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:26 PM
561im hoping for the other way around
562
563Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:26 PM
564I'm offended.
565
566LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:26 PM
567Miners seem to be ready on the new algo also. Haven't heard much on team red. They sorted?
568
569DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:26 PM
570i'll even throw in my RVNC assetts
571
572traysi ? at 4:26 PM
573teamredminer supports x16rv2 now
574
575Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:27 PM
576who is that?
577
578Someone_2 at 4:27 PM
579If I recall correctly they're AMD right?
580
581traysi ? at 4:27 PM
582right
583
584Le_Choux at 4:27 PM
585Is the new algo really ASICs resistant?
586
587Stoner at 4:27 PM
588no
589
590push | ravenland.org at 4:27 PM
591maybe asics have a place when they dont create a threat to the decentralization. remember the reason why that rule of no asics was introduced was because of the destructivity of a large manufacturer controlling 50% of the chain or more and concentrating a large amount of the currency. so ravencoin in its whitepaper resists asic (hence the term asic resistance) to prevent the situation where the raven coins are held more by a single party. i think that is good
592
593Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:28 PM
594Forking is asics resistant @Le_Choux
595
596Tron at 4:28 PM
597No, the new algo is not any more ASIC resistant, but it should nullify existing ASICs
598
599Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:28 PM
600Until
601
602maxp at 4:28 PM
603is the plan to continue forking every x months?
604
605DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:28 PM
606there is no such thing as asic resistance... its only a matter of time and money for ANY algo
607
608GR8Scott(Here4TheFreedom) at 4:28 PM
609How is the fork supposed to look, re: x16r/x16rv2 blocks. My understanding is we’ll see both algos being accepted blocks at the same time for a short while or something?
610
611Under at 4:29 PM
612I get the hubris in not pushing 2wrp into the upgrade but if we are going to do this in the future a lot, we really should contemplate its use to minimize exchange safety concerns.
613
614DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:29 PM
615i personally like the idea of DEDICATED hardware that cant chase profits with other projects, or be rented out forcing us to DGW...
616
617push | ravenland.org at 4:29 PM
618regarding ASICS. I know its a 'controversial topic'. I was actually for asics. but. i just want it stated no matter which side people take or the debate, when we look at a 'problem and solution', we should look at the cause, and the underlying reason for the rule existing. that is key to understanding the root cause of any definition , problem or solution. So dont look at the fact asics are banned, but look at why ravencoin x16r was made to be asic resistant. we want to stop concentration of the raven coins and them being held or controlled by a single actor, a centralized actor. this is always bad.
619
620Le_Choux at 4:29 PM
621@Joemarket (ban sevvy) @Tron thx dudes
622
623LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:29 PM
624What about future changes to minimize ongoing algo forks? Did we ever get anywhere with CN4 mobile wallet issues?
625
626traysi ? at 4:30 PM
627My understanding is that if we can kick the ASICs off right now, then we should move to a new algo as soon as feasible afterwards using a soft fork vote like assets were implemented.
628
629x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos) at 4:30 PM
630x16r² of course
631
632push | ravenland.org at 4:30 PM
633thats a good solution to ensuring asics never come back @traysi ?
634or at least to help it
635
636Seppat (not un-sober) at 4:30 PM
637@push | ravenland.org agreed. Also, ASICs aren't inherently bad, just if they're centralized (1 large company making them)
638
639Tron at 4:30 PM
640I've talked to few people about open sourcing ASICs. That would allow more people to have ASICs which solves the decentralization problem without targeting specifically custom chips. Thoughts?
641
642push | ravenland.org at 4:30 PM
643yes, asics arent inherently bad, i think we'd welcome them if it didnt lead to a concentration of mining reward
644
645Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:30 PM
646yes please Tron
647
648Chill at 4:30 PM
649yes, please
650
651push | ravenland.org at 4:30 PM
652i cant speak for ravencoin, my opinion though
653
654Mango Farm at 4:30 PM
655Open source asics = excellent idea
656
657russ | ban sevvy at 4:30 PM
658open sourced asics would be amazing
659
660DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:30 PM
661yes please @Tron
662
663Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:31 PM
664yes and no !
665
666Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:31 PM
667this came up as sort of a joke by Phoenix in the last meeting, but I typed it as a serious comment at the same time
668
669push | ravenland.org at 4:31 PM
670yeah.. i mean open source is a good idea, the question is what mechanism can you control open source asic vs non open source ones centrally manufactured
671
672x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos) at 4:31 PM
673That would be like Open Source laptops though. Really ugly.
674
675Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:31 PM
676if we can make asics NOT a threat
677
678push | ravenland.org at 4:31 PM
679they would just base it on the open source ones, right
680
681Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:31 PM
682then it's the same as being asic resistant
683
684push | ravenland.org at 4:31 PM
685so that requires some deep thinking
686
687Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:31 PM
688I think ASICs are wrong from the base !
689
690traysi ? at 4:31 PM
691There are complications around getting open source asics actually built on the hardware side. @buzzdave can give insight to the hurdles involved.
692
693LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:31 PM
694mining reward is not even the issue imho. its the ability to censor transactions that scares me.
695
696DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:31 PM
697embrace working smarter... not harder
698
699GR8Scott(Here4TheFreedom) at 4:31 PM
700Sounds like we want to give up.
701
702Vincent at 4:31 PM
703as far as all asics not bad I agree... maybe their work supports the project; why would they wont to kill the golden goose
704
705push | ravenland.org at 4:31 PM
706i think the same amount of trust is required, with the centralized manufacturer requirements
707so you need to trust the manufacturer
708not just the designer of such a thing
709
710Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:32 PM
711no scott, it's about winning the fight intelligently
712
713Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:32 PM
714The point that traysi is saying if we do the new algo change fast enough we can do a bip vote every couple of months then no one can say anything about forking
715
716Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:32 PM
717it's about using the enemy's momentum to harm them
718
719Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:32 PM
720I support this idea
721
722Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:32 PM
723instead of having to exert equal and opposite force to win
724
725DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:32 PM
726asymmetrical warfare... gotta go guerilla asics
727
728Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 4:32 PM
729still only some people will have asics and companies will make money by making mass asic devices
730
731Vincent at 4:33 PM
732so what
733
734Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:33 PM
735or, ya know, you could go with some kind of weird option that is permanently CPU only
736
737x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos) at 4:33 PM
738Let's not get ahead of ourselves too much. Wait and see what happens after the fork before worrying about future ASIC issues
739
740push | ravenland.org at 4:33 PM
741if you take the US Dollar currency for instance, you would probably be opposed to the idea of a single person taking 50% or more of the circulating currency, right. so this is why we should resist asics , at least until the reason why ravencoin was made asic resistant in the first place doesnt exist anymore. and i believe that is the danger of centralized manufacturer. centralized manufacturer can always result in the same a concentration of a mined coin
742
743Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:33 PM
744if you don't mind botnets
745
746push | ravenland.org at 4:33 PM
747:smile:
748
749Chill at 4:33 PM
750South Korea loves us. Someone get Samsung on board :wink:
751
752Jeroz at 4:33 PM
753I agree with @x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos).
754
755GR8Scott(Here4TheFreedom) at 4:33 PM
756This is the internet. We have to get ahead of ourselves.
757
758Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:33 PM
759there will probably be asics for x16rv2 as fast as there were for x16r
760which might be very fast
761
762push | ravenland.org at 4:33 PM
763south korea was legit amazing. there is a HUGE community
764
765Under at 4:33 PM
766Speaking of which I would love to get some help translating the explorer into korean.
767
768push | ravenland.org at 4:34 PM
769i was overwhelmed by the size of the audience when we presented there
770
771Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:34 PM
772contact Bradar?
773
774Jeroz at 4:34 PM
775@Under Ill poke bradar for you
776
777Under at 4:34 PM
778if anyone knows anyone that could assist....
779thanks
780
781DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:34 PM
782South Korea has some LEGIT manufacturing capabilities
783
784
785push | ravenland.org at 4:34 PM
786@Under I have one of the translators cards
787
788Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:34 PM
789find him on twitter. I'm sure you can get in touch and he can refer you to someone
790
791push | ravenland.org at 4:34 PM
792maybe they can help, i will ask if you like
793
794Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:34 PM
795mmmmm, samsung raven asic
796
797GR8Scott(Here4TheFreedom) at 4:34 PM
798How is the fork supposed to look, re: x16r/x16rv2 blocks. My understanding is we’ll see both algos being accepted blocks at the same time for a short while or something?
799
800Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:34 PM
801available to all
802
803Jeroz at 4:34 PM
804I think Under already touched upon the next topic. I share his concern about developers maintaining the various github repo's. Under noticed that security patches from the repos that were forked from his were not timely applied.
805
806Ive seen people taking the time to sit down, test mobile wallets and write them all in issues on the mobile wallets git but did not get a reply for half a year.
807
808When I push something to ravencoin.org git I just poke Blondfrogs a bunch of times until he accepts it to make me shut up :stuck_out_tongue:
809
810Can we make a plan on how to combat this?
811
812push | ravenland.org at 4:34 PM
813we'll commit to making our asset explorer in korean too, thats an awesome idea
814
815J. | ravenland.org at 4:35 PM
816Monero forks somewhere around two(?) times a month to prevent ASICs. But lets see what happens after month changes and re-evaluate the situation.
817
818Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:35 PM
819@traysi ? another option is when we get voting on network you can use your vote coin and we can put a vote to all rvn holders wallet more than 10k rvn
820
821Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:35 PM
822two times a month?
823:mind_blown:
824
825DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:35 PM
826monero doesnt have an incomplete roadmap... please stop comparing apples to oranges folks
827
828Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:35 PM
829ah, sure
830
831Tron at 4:35 PM
832For a few minutes x16r and x16rV2 will be accepted, but based on the time in the block. If it is at or after Oct 1, 16:00 UTC it will use x16rV2
833
834Rikki RATTOE Hotel Floor Pooper at 4:36 PM
835@Joemarket (ban sevvy) Proof of Stake? :yum:
836
837Tron at 4:36 PM
838The only reason it could accept both for some time is that the chain will accept blocks within about a 12 minute time window.
839
840Vincent at 4:36 PM
841if you support RVNC and RVN, you have a play grund for both classes of hardware and less need to keep forking
842
843push | ravenland.org at 4:36 PM
844is there a suitable option for doing seamless forks 2x a month for ravencoin @traysi ? it strikes me as something we need to think about doing more often and making more smooth
845
846Someone_2 at 4:36 PM
847To my knowledge Monero does it about every 6 months, they are a far different coinhowever.
848
849push | ravenland.org at 4:37 PM
850I think best thing to do is to have a 1 hour maintenance over the block time. this is via time not block height right
851
852Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:37 PM
853multi. chain. coin
854
855Tron at 4:37 PM
856Monero also has a harder time growing its ecosystem because of the disruption that required upgrades cause.
857
858Someone_2 at 4:37 PM
859yep
860
861push | ravenland.org at 4:37 PM
862yes, what is the compromise that has least disruption but still discourages asics
863
864Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:38 PM
865There more valuable because they fight asics
866
867push | ravenland.org at 4:38 PM
868i think there has to be a balance between disruption of exchanges, and stopping asics
869
870Vincent at 4:38 PM
871sounds like we are planning the same disruption...extended
872
873Pho3nix Monk3y at 4:38 PM
874We should focus on the next agenda item that @Jeroz brought up
875
876bhorn at 4:38 PM
877more like C--
878
879push | ravenland.org at 4:38 PM
880(what we really mean to say when we say stop asics is to stop centralization that results in concentration of raven coins to a single party
881
882DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:38 PM
883not saying our devs cant walk and chew bubblegum, but this fork has GOT to have taken more energy than its worth and that they would rather of spent elsewhere
884
885push | ravenland.org at 4:38 PM
886so we want to in other words stop manipulation by resisting asic)
887
888LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:38 PM
889Github repos issues please.
890
891Tron at 4:38 PM
892ProgPOW, RandomX, or CNv4 are good compromises, but may prove challenging for the mobile wallets.
893
894
895Vincent at 4:38 PM
896only if you keep it in the blck parket
897
898push | ravenland.org at 4:39 PM
899mm, if only there was a way on mobile wallets to have an side-chain
900then it wouldnt be so horrendous for mobile wallet users
901
902Tron at 4:39 PM
903Sorry @Jeroz What's next?
904
905Hans_Schmidt at 4:39 PM
906@Tron Where does 12 minutes come from?
907
908push | ravenland.org at 4:39 PM
909bit beyond my understanding though
910
911buzzdave at 4:39 PM
912@traysi ? usually foundry wants a direct relationship with an IP owner of ASIC Achip design. But Altered is prepared to fund the design and open source it after a community release.
913
914boatsandhoes at 4:39 PM
915whats the projected vote date for token function upgrades?
916
917Jeroz at 4:39 PM
918@Tron
919I think Under already touched upon the next topic. I share his concern about developers maintaining the various github repo's. Under noticed that security patches from the repos that were forked from his were not timely applied.
920
921Ive seen people taking the time to sit down, test mobile wallets and write them all in issues on the mobile wallets git but did not get a reply for half a year.
922
923When I push something to ravencoin.org git I just poke Blondfrogs a bunch of times until he accepts it to make me shut up :stuck_out_tongue:
924
925Can we make a plan on how to combat this?
926
927Under at 4:40 PM
928duplication of effort and work is an issue, Jeroz's concerns about timeliness of change management on existing repos such as the website and wallets is a valid concern.
929
930my concern is related, but moreso around the forks of my projects. I attempt to submit bugfixes and they were ignored for several months. I think that it is usually not common for upstream repos to submit content to downstream repos, usually you're contributing back. not really sure why we are duplicating effort. I'd be glad to add anyone from core to the api repos.
931
932Tron at 4:41 PM
933@Hans_Schmidt It's from memory, so it might be different, but there's a limit to how far off the block time (encoded in the block header) can be before it isn't accepted as valid.
934
935[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:41 PM
936Thanks under. That is a great idea.
937
938push | ravenland.org at 4:41 PM
939yeah thanks @Under
940that is really welcome help
941
942Tron at 4:41 PM
943@Jeroz If the patches are small and easy to understand what is being added, it can be pulled in quickly.
944Large changes require someone to go through the code very carefully to make sure vulnerabilities aren't being slipstreamed in with a "security" patch.
945
946Jeroz at 4:43 PM
947Well, for example, the issues submitted to the mobile wallets are all pretty small in themselves and listed in such a way that you can tick them off.
948
949Tron at 4:43 PM
950With that said, we can do a better job of commenting and prioritizing issues. And pulling in PRs.
951
952[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:43 PM
953@Jeroz The mobile apps are now going to have my eyes looking at them for merges. So i think that the response times will be better of issues and PR to mobile
954
955Tron at 4:43 PM
956The mobile wallet development has been mostly in Roshiis hands until recently.
957
958LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:45 PM
959Any other github issues? or are we onto the next item?
960
961Jeroz at 4:45 PM
962I think that covers the concerns and replies to the gits, yes.
963
964PolyglotNinja at 4:46 PM
965Spreading the Ravencoin word and getting more community developers interested will help too! The more contributors the more the work is spread out. :rvn_heart_2:
966
967Tyrantt at 4:46 PM
968Any word on the Ledger progress?
969
970[Muten] roshii at 4:46 PM
971Hello, sorry just got back to office
972I'm still working on mobile wallets, have so many new things to commit.
973
974Jeroz at 4:47 PM
975I left a small time window for general announcements.
976
977I backported 2 PRs from Bitcoin and submitted them in a PR to the develop tree. Under his static build guide works without any problems on it. For a raspbrry Pi Raven Core GUI
978
979@push | ravenland.org already started importing into Ravenland OS.
980
981Are there any other general announcements from others before we go to Q&A?
982
983[Muten] roshii at 4:47 PM
984We will start looking at them after the Oct 1st fork fix wallets
985
986Under at 4:48 PM
987no direct response @Tron ?
988
989push | ravenland.org at 4:48 PM
990yep it looks awesome thanks to @Jeroz hard work
991so happy to see this, thanks again chap
992i was the guy that said it would 'never work in a million years' btw
993:joy:
994
995Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:49 PM
996:joy:
997I just kept asking until I got the answer I wanted
998
999Jeroz at 4:49 PM
1000I know, but I like to move boundaries :wink:
1001
1002Bianca_NL at 4:49 PM
1003lol
1004
1005push | ravenland.org at 4:49 PM
1006yeah we can thank sevvy for being impatient
1007but jeroz actually fixed the shizzle
1008:peepoHeHe:
1009
1010Sevvy (All About the O) at 4:49 PM
1011I was ready to try myself
1012as a clueless moron
1013but then Jeroz just whipped it up while I was at work
1014
1015Tron at 4:50 PM
1016@Under That makes sense. Let's join forces on it.
1017
1018push | ravenland.org at 4:50 PM
1019so we are due to release the latest version of ravencoinOS with jeroz fixed ARM32 qt5 PR. should we run 3.2.0 okay on ravencoinOS or really consider 2.5.1?
1020
1021tri at 4:51 PM
1022when is 3.2 schedule to release?
1023
1024push | ravenland.org at 4:51 PM
1025question is, really, should ravencoinOS be using develop branch, is there any utility in that?
1026
1027[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:51 PM
10282.5.1 would be the build to use. however. I know that you are using 3.2.0 because it contains extra rpc commands
1029
1030push | ravenland.org at 4:51 PM
1031yeah but for ravencoinOS its okay
1032it not need them
1033it the rpi image, release right
1034
1035[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:51 PM
1036afaik 3.2.0 will work with the forked algo the same as 2.5.1
1037
1038push | ravenland.org at 4:51 PM
1039yeah
1040
1041Under at 4:51 PM
1042looking forward to greater collaboration in the community development spirit..
1043@Tron
1044
1045push | ravenland.org at 4:52 PM
1046i guess the question is should we push out development branch version in our latest release candidate for ravencoinOS
1047
1048tri at 4:52 PM
1049so 3.2 is 6 month from now
1050?
1051
1052DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 4:52 PM
1053Oct 31st?
1054
1055push | ravenland.org at 4:52 PM
1056@Under if we can help with anything, we would be glad to btw mate
1057youve been helpful to us in the past
1058
1059Under at 4:52 PM
1060Thank you @push | ravenland.org
1061
1062Jeroz at 4:53 PM
1063Alright Q&A!
1064
1065I already wrote a few questions down:
10661) Ondalf: is there anyone with anti-spam bot experience for telegram?
10672) RealBokito: Let's start a Ravencoin mailing list for updates, issues, etc! Who wants to set it up?
1068(leaving Under his questions for himself :))
1069
1070Tron at 4:54 PM
1071I'll look at setting up a mailing list. (After Oct 1) :slight_smile:
1072
1073LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:55 PM
1074@Tron do you think that you can look at the ipfs pinner script?
1075
1076Tron at 4:56 PM
1077I can look at it, but I think @push | ravenland.org has pushed that effort forward and it might be best to work in that direction.
1078
1079push | ravenland.org at 4:56 PM
1080yeah i mean, we use bash mainly and the https://bootstrap.ravenland.org/
1081which is created from the assetexplorer automation wehave
1082we would be happy to take another look at trons python script
1083we have a few other priorities but hell, sure we will try make some time man
1084but yeah we have substantial job management for ipfs pinning
1085there is a simple way to pin, via gateway using curl
1086it is much more efficient presently
1087DHT dial's are . not super super fast
1088but as the network grows , and ipfs improves i suspect it will become the next standard of transmission like cdn's were to the 90's website
1089:smile:
1090
1091Under at 4:57 PM
1092I wanted to check our appetite for Q1 2020 to work on code modularity to better downstream merge bitcoin updates. there have been some really great changes but i feel like doing features piecemeal puts us at a big disadvantage if we ever decide to rebase. Modularity means to ME separate RPC call to handle assets expanded functionality instead of modifying preexisting ones, cfox adjusted a great many rpc calls to implement asset jsonrpc. some of that work greatly impedes rebasing from bitcoin master
1093
1094Joemarket (ban sevvy) at 4:58 PM
1095I think the email mailing. List would be a good deal put a subscription bottom on many sites
1096
1097push | ravenland.org at 4:58 PM
1098also
1099https://imgur.com/a/NQEmI95 :FeelsShocked:
1100
1101i knew i would get on with these guys
1102:smile:
1103
1104LSJI07 - MBIT at 4:58 PM
1105Thanks guys. I was concerned about overloading push tbh and his network. A decentralised solution would be awesome.
1106
1107push | ravenland.org at 4:58 PM
1108i report that their MDNS issue caused UDP port to stop listening when they went over security ulimits
1109
1110[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:58 PM
1111@Under We are planning on pulling in all for the bitcoin updates.
1112
1113Jeroz at 4:58 PM
1114Oh something that came to my mind. Is it an idea to move SHAsums of the binaries on unique Ravencoin assets or something? Like Push does with a bootstrap? @Tron
1115Feels more safe when they are immutable on a chain than on github
1116
1117push | ravenland.org at 4:58 PM
1118and they delete my feedback :joy:
1119apparently im not talking about what they are heheheh
1120
1121[Dev] Blondfrogs at 4:59 PM
1122As for now, we are thinking of pulling back on RavenProject api and explorer to use yours. So any changes we have made to break stuff wouldn't be needed anymore.
1123
1124push | ravenland.org at 4:59 PM
1125i will give my ipfs feedback to you blondfrogs maybe they will not delete your comments hehehe
1126
1127Tron at 4:59 PM
1128>> I think the email mailing. List would be a good deal put a subscription bottom on many sites
1129We can do this.
1130
1131DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 5:00 PM
1132email subscription? i want a tokenized subscription :think2:
1133
1134Sevvy (All About the O) at 5:00 PM
1135soon
1136
1137Seal Clubber at 5:01 PM
1138:eyes:
1139
1140Tron at 5:01 PM
1141@DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) We could put all the messages on IPFS tied to a token once testnet goes live.
1142
1143Jeroz at 5:02 PM
1144Waiting for @WuKong(ravenplatform.com) to make his fist appearance :slight_smile:
1145
1146Tron at 5:02 PM
1147It is slightly different than a "push" messaging with e-mail.
1148
1149DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 5:02 PM
1150@Tron wont we have messaging features?
1151
1152boatsandhoes at 5:02 PM
1153could make the ipfs a webpage, then tie that to a token, then when there is an update after 3.2 update the token owner can broadcast update or something like that
1154
1155Jeroz at 5:03 PM
1156Sounds cool
1157
1158WuKong(ravenplatform.com) at 5:03 PM
1159@Jeroz @Tron The mailing service for updates, news sounds good! Maybe it incldues QnA session that collect from the community and let them know more about Ravencoin. Actually, more and more people are interested in Raven project but many of them dont know much about it.
1160
1161Tron at 5:03 PM
1162Yes, but the clients need to be updated. The protocol is on testnet now, but the GUI needs to be updated - and mobile.
1163None of that requires a fork or BIP.
1164
1165Jeroz at 5:04 PM
1166Looks like a good time to end the meet! I hope you enjoyed the format. Thanks everyone and have nice weekend and a safe fork :slight_smile:
1167
1168x16r² ASIC Killer (256 Combos) at 5:04 PM
1169Just wanted to point out there is no apparent pump of buying RVN before the fork to get free coins.
1170
1171DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 5:04 PM
1172right on... thats what i am envisioning for our means of "internal" communication in the near future
1173
1174[Dev] Blondfrogs at 5:04 PM
1175Thanks @Jeroz
1176
1177Sevvy (All About the O) at 5:04 PM
1178:rvn_heart_2:
1179
1180Pho3nix Monk3y at 5:04 PM
1181send @Jeroz any feedback you have going forward on meeting format, etc
1182
1183Tron at 5:04 PM
1184Thanks for participating! KAAAWWW!
1185
1186SpyderDev at 5:04 PM
1187Thanks all
1188
1189J. | ravenland.org at 5:04 PM
1190:patrick:
1191
1192tri at 5:04 PM
1193i getting my spoon ready
1194
1195boatsandhoes at 5:04 PM
1196good meeting, great weekend everybody
1197
1198radiodub at 5:04 PM
1199Thank you
1200
1201Freeman-pool.peopleland.net at 5:05 PM
1202:pick:
1203
1204Seal Clubber at 5:05 PM
1205This is wonderfull. We all deserve a pat on the back
1206
1207DirkDiggler (Fork muh bag) at 5:05 PM
1208:patrick:
1209
1210Seal Clubber at 5:05 PM
1211And thx to Jeroz ofc
1212
1213WuKong(ravenplatform.com) at 5:05 PM
1214I don't wanna drive the wrong way on a road but open sourcing ASICs is a good try and it seems we, Raven, change our direction to 'embrace' ASICs in the end, which deosn't mean it's evil. However, though there are some open source tools available though I believe none of them are really used for any production quality designs. We can disccuss it later, maybe at next meeting.
1215
1216Mango Farm at 5:05 PM
1217Thanks everyone
1218
1219Pho3nix Monk3y at 5:06 PM
1220chat closed. continue in #thenest see yall in 2 weeks
1221
1222Seal Clubber at 5:06 PM
1223^