· 6 years ago · Jan 04, 2019, 09:10 AM
10001
2 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3 2 VOLUME 1
4 3 PAGES 1 - 179
5 4 EXHIBITS: See Index
6 5 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
7 6 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
8 7
9 8 ------------------------------x
10 9 IN RE SEPTEMBER 11 LITIGATION : No. 21 MC 97 (AKH)
1110 ------------------------------x
1211
1312
1413 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM T. THOMAS
1514 Tuesday, January 16, 2007, 9:08 a.m
1615 Merrill Corporation
1716 101 Federal Street, Boston, MA 02110
1817
1918 Reporter: Janet M. McHugh, RMR, CRR
2019 TC Reporting
2120 In Affiliation with LegaLink
2221 420 Lexington Avenue
2322 New York, NY 10170
2423 (212)931-6571
2524
2625
270002
28 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
29 2 APPEARANCES:
30 3
31 4 Timothy Tomasik, Esq.
32 5 Clifford Law Offices
33 6 120 North LaSalle Street, Suite 3100
34 7 Chicago, IL 60602
35 8 (312) 899-9090
36 9 PD/BL Plaintiffs’ Liaison Counsel
3710
3811
3912 Cathi A. Hession, Esq.
4013 Jason Cohen, Esq.
4114 Flemming Zulack Williamson Zauderer LLP
4215 One Liberty Plaza
4316 New York, N.Y. 10006
4417 (212) 412-9506
4518 Counsel for WTCP Cross-Claim Plaintiffs
4619 Ground Defendants' Liaison Counsel
4720
4821 Courtney Anderson, Esq.
4922 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw
5023 190 South La Salle Street
5124 Chicago, Illinois 60603
5225 Counsel for United Airlines
530003
54 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
55 2 APEARANCES: (Continued)
56 3
57 4 Steven Bocknek, Esq.
58 5 Schiff Hardin LLP
59 6 623 Fifth Avenue, 28th Floor
60 7 New York, NY 10022
61 8 Counsel for Port Authority of New York
62 9 and New Jersey
6310
6411 James Gallagher, Esq.
6512 Amy Ruina, Esq.
6613 Gallagher Gosseen Fuller & Crowley
6714 1010 Franklin Avenue, Suite 400
6815 Garden City, New York 11530
6916 Counsel for American Trans Air, Inc.,
7017 Delta Airlines and Port Authority of
7118 New York and New Jersey
7219
7320 Elizabeth Goldman, Esq.
7421 Assistant U.S. Attorney
7522 U. S. Department of Justice
7623 Southern District of New York
7724 86 Chambers Street, Third Floor
7825 New York, New York 10007
790004
80 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
81 2 APPEARANCES: (Continued)
82 3
83 4 Benjamin C. Curcio, Esq.
84 5 Seiden Wayne LLC
85 6 Two Penn Plaza East
86 7 Newark, New Jersey 07105
87 8 Counsel for Continental Airlines
88 9
8910
9011 Laura Murphy, Esq.
9112 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
9213 425 Lexington Avenue
9314 New York, New York 10017
9415 Counsel for Argenbright Security, Inc.
9516
9617
9718 Jonathan Ross, Esq.
9819 Susman Godfrey LLP
9920 1000 Louisiana Street, Suite 5100
10021 Houston, Texas 77002
10122 Counsel for Huntleigh USA
10223
10324
10425 - Continued -
1050005
106 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
107 2 APPEARANCES: (Continued)
108 3
109 4 James P. Connors, Esq.
110 5 Jones Hirsch Connors & Bull P.C.
111 6 1 Dag Hammarskjold Plaza
112 7 New York, New York 10017
113 8 Counsel for Globe Aviation Services, Inc.
114 9
11510
11611 Kathleen Guilfoyle, Esq.
11712 Campbell, Campbell, Edwards & Conroy,
11813 Professional Corporation
11914 One Constitution Plaza
12015 Boston, Massachusetts 02129
12116 Counsel for US Airways
12217
12318 Karen Berberich, Esq.
12419 Dombroff & Gilmore
12520 1025 Thomas Jefferson Street, NW
12621 Washington, D.C. 20007
12722 Counsel for the Metropolitan Washington
12823 Airport Authority and City of Portland, Maine
12924
13025 - Continued -
1310006
132 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
133 2
134 3 APPEARANCES: (Continued)
135 4
136 5 Gregory Comeau, Esq.
137 6 Goodwin Procter, LLP
138 7 Exchange Place
139 8 53 State Street
140 9 Boston, Massachusetts 02109
14110 (617)570-1000
14211 Counsel for Massport
14312
14413 Paul Robbins, Esq.
14514 McLaughlin & Stern LLP
14615 260 Madison Avenue - 18th Floor
14716 New York, New York 10016
14817 Counsel for ICTS International
14918
15019 Mary Gaston, Esq.
15120 Perkins Cole LLP
15221 1201 Third Avenue, Suite 4800
15322 Seattle, Washington 98101
15423 Counsel for Boeing
15524
15625 ALSO PRESENT:
1570007
158 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
159 2 Keith Houlihan, TSA
160 3 APPEARANCES: (Continued)
161 4
162 5 Wayne Webb, TSA
163 6 Thomas Gibson, Videographer
164 7
165 8
166 9
16710
16811
16912
17013
17114
17215
17316
17417
17518
17619
17720
17821
17922
18023
18124
18225
1830008
184 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
185 2 I N D E X
186 3 WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
187 4 William Thomas
188 5 By Mr. Tomasik 9 175
189 6 By Mr. Granito 137 170
190 7 By Ms. Hession 152
191 8 By Mr. Ross 158
192 9 By Mr. Ellis 165
19310
19411 E X H I B I T S
19512 Number Description Page
19613 237 Personnel file of William Thomas 34
19714 238 Huntleigh COG 57
19815 239 Department of Justice, FBI,
19916 Huntleigh Security Company
20017 Document Disclosure 177
20118
20219
20320
20421
20522
20623
20724
20825
2090009
210 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
211 2 P R O C E E D I N G S
212 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins Videotape
213 4 No. 1 in the deposition of William Thomas in the matter
214 5 of the September 11th Securities Litigation in New York
215 6 Federal Court, Case No. 21 MC 97(AKH), 21 MC 101.
216 7 Today's date is January 16, 2007. The time
217 8 on the video monitor is 9:08. The video operator today
218 9 is Tom Gibson, contracted by TC Reporting.
21910 This video deposition is taking place at
22011 101 Federal Street, Boston, Massachusetts, and was
22112 noticed by the plaintiffs. The court reporter today is
22213 Janet McHugh.
22314 Would the reporter please swear in the
22415 witness.
22516 WILLIAM T. THOMAS,
22617 having been duly sworn, after presenting
22718 identification in the form of a Massachusetts
22819 identification card, deposes and says as follows:
22920 DIRECT EXAMINATION
23021 BY MR. TOMASIK:
23122 Q. Good morning, Mr. Thomas.
23223 A. Good morning.
23324 Q. Sir, would you please state your full
23425 name?
2350010
236 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
237 2 A. William Troy Thomas.
238 3 Q. As I introduced myself this morning, my
239 4 name is Tim Tomasik, and I'm here on behalf of
240 5 coordinated plaintiffs in the 9/11 litigation. Before
241 6 we get started, I just wanted to ask you: Have you
242 7 ever been deposed before?
243 8 A. "Deposed?" I don't understand "deposed."
244 9 Q. Have you ever given a deposition?
24510 A. No. I haven't.
24611 Q. Okay. I know you've spent some time with
24712 your attorney, but just a couple of things before we
24813 get started.
24914 If at any time I ask a question that you
25015 don't understand, just let me know, and I'll do my best
25116 to ask a better question. Fair enough?
25217 A. Fair.
25318 Q. And because the court reporter here today
25419 is taking down everything that we say, let's be sure to
25520 let each other finish speaking before the next person
25621 speaks, okay?
25722 A. Okay.
25823 Q. Of course, if you want to take a break at
25924 any time, that's okay, too. But if there is a question
26025 pending, I'm going to ask you to answer that question
2610011
262 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
263 2 before the break. All right?
264 3 A. Okay.
265 4 Q. Great. Sir, could you tell us your
266 5 address?
267 6 A. One Westwood Road, Plymouth, Mass.
268 7 Q. How long have you lived there?
269 8 A. Six months.
270 9 Q. Your date of birth, sir?
27110 A. January 3, 1964.
27211 Q. Can you tell us about your educational
27312 background?
27413 A. I graduated from high school.
27514 Q. 1982, I believe?
27615 A. Yes.
27716 Q. Since graduating from high school, have
27817 you done any other coursework or studies? Any local
27918 schools or institutes?
28019 A. No. I haven't.
28120 Q. I'll be asking you some questions about
28221 your personnel file a little bit, but just some general
28322 background questions. Sir, do you have any military
28423 experience?
28524 A. No.
28625 Q. Have you ever worked in law enforcement
2870012
288 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
289 2 before?
290 3 A. No.
291 4 Q. Have you ever pursued working for a
292 5 governmental law enforcement agency?
293 6 A. Yes.
294 7 Q. What agency was that?
295 8 A. The police department.
296 9 Q. Okay. You've applied to police
29710 departments?
29811 A. I have took the civil service exam.
29912 Q. Okay. And when did you take that test?
30013 A. I can't recall the date. I'm not sure of
30114 the date. It was over ten years ago.
30215 Q. Okay. And after taking that test, did you
30316 ever apply to any police departments?
30417 A. No.
30518 MR. ROSS: Hold on just a second. Can you
30619 raise your mic there? I'm having trouble. Sorry. Try
30720 that.
30821 MR. TOMASIK: Better?
30922 BY MR. TOMASIK:
31023 Q. One thing, Mr. Thomas, it's a little bit
31124 unfair for you to today, we're in a room that is about
31225 three times the size that we normally conduct
3130013
314 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
315 2 depositions in. So, if you could do your best to keep
316 3 your voice up to help the folks out back, that would be
317 4 great.
318 5 A. Okay.
319 6 Q. Are you a member of any unions?
320 7 A. No.
321 8 Q. Have you ever been a member of a union?
322 9 A. No.
32310 Q. Sir, do you hold any professional licenses
32411 or certifications of any kind?
32512 A. No.
32613 Q. Prior to your work with Huntleigh, did you
32714 ever obtain a certificate from any company who trained
32815 you in security procedures?
32916 A. Prior to Huntleigh? I received a
33017 certificate from Argenbright.
33118 Q. Okay. And let me ask a little better
33219 question. Before you worked in aviation security, did
33320 you ever go under any sort of training for security
33421 through any private company and receive a certificate
33522 for security?
33623 A. No, no.
33724 Q. And again, Mr. Thomas, this is something
33825 that happens often in depositions. Just wait until I'm
3390014
340 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
341 2 done asking my question before you answer it. It will
342 3 make it a lot easier on the court reporter, okay?
343 4 A. (Witness nodded.)
344 5 Q. Okay. Sir, are you a member of any
345 6 organization or association of any kind?
346 7 A. No.
347 8 Q. Were you on or before 9/11 a member of any
348 9 organization or association of any kind?
34910 A. No.
35011 Q. Are you presently employed?
35112 A. Yes.
35213 Q. Where do you work?
35314 A. Macy's, retail.
35415 Q. How long have you been with Macy's?
35516 A. One year.
35617 Q. And prior to going to work for Macy's,
35718 what did you do?
35819 A. What did I do? I did construction.
35920 Q. Okay. I understand that you left the
36021 employ of Huntleigh in February, 2002; is that right?
36122 A. Yes.
36223 Q. Maybe just to help us move this along
36324 today, can you just give us an overview of your work
36425 history from that date through the present?
3650015
366 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
367 2 A. From that date to the present, I did
368 3 some -- I worked, I drove a limousine. I did mostly
369 4 work for my brother, who owns a gas station. Did a
370 5 little bit of oil changes and did some yard work.
371 6 Q. Okay. Would it be accurate to say,
372 7 Mr. Thomas, that your present work at Macy's has
373 8 nothing to do with security or risk management?
374 9 A. Correct.
37510 Q. You work in retail?
37611 A. Right.
37712 Q. And your work in construction, did that
37813 have anything to do with security?
37914 A. No.
38015 Q. Can you tell us the sort of work you did
38116 at your brother's service station?
38217 A. Changed oils, cleaned up the yard. Did
38318 some cleric -- clerk work, you know, gas station
38419 attendant.
38520 Q. Okay. Would that be the Mobil station --
38621 A. Yes.
38722 Q. -- that is indicated on your application
38823 to Huntleigh?
38924 A. Yes, it is.
39025 Q. Okay. And that is a place you've worked
3910016
392 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
393 2 at intermittently throughout the years?
394 3 A. Yes, it is.
395 4 Q. Operated by your brother?
396 5 A. Yes.
397 6 Q. Okay. I'm going to be asking you some
398 7 questions about your application to Huntleigh in a few
399 8 minutes here, but I understand that your start date was
400 9 somewhere towards the end of May, 2001; is that right?
40110 A. I will say that's right, yes.
40211 Q. Okay. And you left Huntleigh February of
40312 2002?
40413 A. Yes.
40514 Q. Mr. Thomas, prior to your deposition
40615 today, did you have an opportunity to review any of the
40716 Huntleigh security documents, such as the Checkpoint
40817 Operations Guide?
40918 A. Yes.
41019 Q. Did you have an opportunity to review the
41120 ACSSP?
41221 A. What is that?
41322 Q. The Air Carrier Standard Security Program?
41423 A. Not that I can recall, no.
41524 Q. Okay. Huntleigh, when you went through
41625 training with them, did have some training materials.
4170017
418 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
419 2 Do you recall that?
420 3 A. Yes.
421 4 Q. And did you have an opportunity to review
422 5 those materials before your deposition?
423 6 A. Some of them, yes.
424 7 Q. Okay. Great. Mr. Thomas, did you ever
425 8 testify before the 9/11 Commission?
426 9 A. No.
42710 Q. Were you ever asked to give a written
42811 statement of any kind?
42912 A. No.
43013 Q. Have you read the 9/11 Commission report?
43114 A. Yes. Part of it.
43215 Q. Okay. How long ago was that?
43316 A. About four years ago.
43417 Q. I'm sorry?
43518 A. About four years ago.
43619 Q. Thank you. Have you read any of the other
43720 associated reports that came out? There is something
43821 called the staffs' -- the 9/11 Commission staff
43922 monograph. Have you had an opportunity to look at
44023 that?
44124 A. No.
44225 Q. Have you read about 9/11 on the Internet
4430018
444 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
445 2 or in any other place?
446 3 A. No.
447 4 Q. At any time prior to today, have you seen
448 5 any of the documentaries on television that have to do
449 6 with 9/11?
450 7 A. Yes.
451 8 Q. Some of the History Channel programs?
452 9 A. Yes.
45310 Q. Some of the Public Television programs?
45411 A. Yes.
45512 Q. Would that include the National Geographic
45613 9/11 series?
45714 A. No.
45815 Q. Have you seen the -- any of the
45916 documentaries that have to do with Flight 175 and
46017 Flight 11 striking the World Trade Center buildings?
46118 A. Yes.
46219 Q. In those documentaries, did you hear any
46320 of the recorded statements of the flight attendants who
46421 were on any of those flights?
46522 A. Yes.
46623 Q. Okay. In regards to those documentaries,
46724 did you hear reports from flight attendants that crew
46825 and passengers were stabbed?
4690019
470 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
471 2 A. Yes.
472 3 Q. Did you hear the statements of flight
473 4 attendants where they communicated to people on the
474 5 ground that there was mace or some sort of spray in the
475 6 aircraft?
476 7 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
477 8 COUNSEL: Objection, form.
478 9 BY MR. TOMASIK:
47910 Q. You can answer.
48011 MR. ROSS: I object. You can answer
48112 unless I instruct you not to answer. We're making it
48213 for the record. Just give us the time to make the
48314 objection. And then if you understand the question, go
48415 ahead and answer.
48516 Q. You can answer.
48617 A. Can you repeat the question?
48718 Q. Yes. In the documentaries that you
48819 watched, did you hear the reports from the flight
48920 attendants that they reported some sort of gas or mace
49021 in the aircraft --
49122 MR. ROSS: Objection.
49223 Q. -- or spray?
49324 MR. CONNORS: Same objection.
49425 Q. You can answer.
4950020
496 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
497 2 A. Yes.
498 3 Q. Okay. And we'll be talking a little bit
499 4 about this later today, but you certainly would agree,
500 5 based upon your training and work in aviation security,
501 6 that mace was a restricted item?
502 7 A. Yes.
503 8 Q. That means that it was an item that was
504 9 not allowed through a checkpoint?
50510 MR. ELLIS: Objection to the form.
50611 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection to the form.
50712 BY MR. TOMASIK:
50813 Q. You can answer.
50914 MR. ELLIS: Calls for a legal conclusion.
51015 A. Can you repeat the question?
51116 Q. Sure. By restricted item, you mean that
51217 it was the responsibility of the screeners to identify
51318 and confiscate mace?
51419 COUNSEL: Objection.
51520 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
51621 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection to the form.
51722 BY MR. TOMASIK:
51823 Q. You can answer.
51924 A. Yes.
52025 Q. You would agree that it was the duty and
5210021
522 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
523 2 responsibility of screeners to identify and confiscate
524 3 pepper spray?
525 4 MR. ROSS: Objection.
526 5 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
527 6 THE WITNESS: No.
528 7 BY MR. TOMASIK:
529 8 Q. Pepper spray was a restricted item, was it
530 9 not?
53110 A. No.
53211 Q. I'll tell you what, I'll -- we'll look at
53312 the COG --
53413 A. Okay.
53514 Q. -- a little later and I'll ask you that
53615 question again. Fair enough?
53716 A. Yes.
53817 Q. All right. In preparation for your
53918 deposition today, Mr. Thomas, did you have an
54019 opportunity to review any information circulars or
54120 security directives?
54221 A. No.
54322 Q. Based on your work and training in
54423 aviation security, do you recall what those items were?
54524 A. Based on my training in security, items?
54625 Q. Let me rephrase.
5470022
548 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
549 2 A. Yes.
550 3 Q. That was a poor question.
551 4 A. Yes.
552 5 Q. Do you recall that when you went through
553 6 training and worked in aviation security that the
554 7 Government would issue security reports about threats
555 8 called information circulars?
556 9 A. Not directly.
55710 Q. Okay. Did you know that that process did
55811 occur, though?
55912 A. Yes.
56013 Q. And there was another document called,
56114 "The Security Directive," that would be issued by the
56215 Government. Do you generally recall that from your
56316 work in aviation security?
56417 A. Yes.
56518 Q. Okay. Did you have an opportunity to
56619 review any of those types of documents in preparation
56720 for your deposition today?
56821 A. Yes.
56922 Q. How many, would you say?
57023 A. Just one.
57124 Q. Okay. Do you remember the year that one
57225 was dated?
5730023
574 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
575 2 A. No. I don't.
576 3 Q. By the way, you are represented by counsel
577 4 here today, Mr. Ross; is that right?
578 5 A. Yes.
579 6 Q. Did you obtain Mr. Ross or did Mr. Ross
580 7 reach out to you?
581 8 MR. ROSS: Objection. We're not going to
582 9 talk about conversations we had with each other.
58310 MR. TOMASIK: Fair enough, John.
58411 BY MR. TOMASIK:
58512 Q. Would it be accurate to say, Mr. Thomas,
58613 that you're not paying Mr. Ross for his services today?
58714 A. That is accurate.
58815 Q. You understand that he is a lawyer for
58916 Huntleigh?
59017 A. Yes.
59118 Q. You understand that Huntleigh is a
59219 defendant in this lawsuit?
59320 A. Yes.
59421 Q. And it's true that on the day of
59522 September 11th, you, yourself, were employed by
59623 Huntleigh?
59724 A. Yes.
59825 Q. Okay. Huntleigh, on 9/11, had certain
5990024
600 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
601 2 responsibilities for United Airlines at Logan; is that
602 3 right?
603 4 MR. ROSS: Objection to the form. Go
604 5 ahead and answer.
605 6 A. That's right.
606 7 Q. Okay. On 9/11, you worked a certain
607 8 checkpoint at Logan. True?
608 9 A. True.
60910 Q. What checkpoint was that?
61011 A. The United checkpoint.
61112 Q. And that was in Terminal C?
61213 A. Terminal C, yes.
61314 Q. And you were screening passengers for
61415 United flights?
61516 A. I was supervising the checkpoint.
61617 Q. You were supervising the screeners, who
61718 were screening passengers for Flight 175?
61819 A. Correct.
61920 Q. I don't mean to jump around, but I just
62021 want to get a little more background information before
62122 we move on, sir.
62223 On or after 9/11, were you ever interviewed
62324 by the FBI?
62425 A. Yes.
6250025
626 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
627 2 Q. How many times?
628 3 A. Twice.
629 4 Q. Was the first time on 9/11?
630 5 A. The first time was after 9/11.
631 6 Q. How many days?
632 7 A. One.
633 8 Q. Where did that interview take place?
634 9 A. At the checkpoint.
63510 Q. How long did the interview last?
63611 A. Maybe an hour.
63712 Q. Can you describe the FBI agent or agents?
63813 A. No.
63914 Q. Male or female?
64015 A. Male.
64116 Q. Did they ask you to give a written or
64217 recorded statement?
64318 A. No.
64419 Q. To the best of your recollection, can you
64520 tell us what they said to you and what you said to
64621 them?
64722 A. I really can't remember.
64823 Q. You mentioned that you were interviewed by
64924 the FBI in a second occasion. Can you tell us when
65025 that was?
6510026
652 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
653 2 A. Maybe two weeks after the first.
654 3 Q. Where did that interview take place?
655 4 A. The airport checkpoint.
656 5 Q. Do you recall anything in regards to that
657 6 conversation?
658 7 A. I really can't recall.
659 8 Q. Were you interviewed by United Airlines
660 9 regarding the events of 9/11?
66110 A. No.
66211 Q. Were you interviewed by Huntleigh
66312 regarding the events of 9/11?
66413 MR. ROSS: Hold on. To the extent that
66514 you talked to any attorneys from Huntleigh, I would
66615 instruct the witness not to answer. You may want to
66716 rephrase your question.
66817 MR. TOMASIK: Yeah, That is fair, John.
66918 BY MR. TOMASIK:
67019 Q. Mr. Thomas, what I'm interested in are
67120 conversations you may have had with Huntleigh personnel
67221 that did not include attorneys or their attorneys,
67322 okay?
67423 A. No.
67524 Q. Just to clarify, on 9/11, did any
67625 supervisor or coworker from Huntleigh interview you
6770027
678 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
679 2 about the operation of the checkpoint you were
680 3 supervising?
681 4 A. No.
682 5 Q. Have you ever been interviewed by the
683 6 Massachusetts State Police?
684 7 A. No.
685 8 Q. Okay. Mr. Thomas, can you tell us why it
686 9 is that you first applied to become a security guard
68710 with Argenbright?
68811 A. Why? I needed a job.
68912 Q. Was there anything about the type of work
69013 or working in security that appealed to you?
69114 A. At the time, no.
69215 Q. How did you learn originally that
69316 Argenbright was looking for or seeking or hiring?
69417 A. Newspaper.
69518 Q. When you were hired by Huntleigh, you
69619 underwent classroom training?
69720 A. Yes.
69821 Q. It was 12 hours?
69922 A. I think it was a little more than
70023 12 hours.
70124 Q. Was there an initial training session that
70225 was completed in about two days?
7030028
704 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
705 2 A. Yes.
706 3 Q. That took place here in Boston?
707 4 A. East Boston, yes.
708 5 Q. Do you recall the name of your trainer?
709 6 A. Bill Bourque.
710 7 Q. Bill Bourque?
711 8 A. Yes.
712 9 Q. Do you know a Mr. Hudspeth?
71310 A. No.
71411 Q. Most of the questions, most all the
71512 questions I'm going to ask you here today, Mr. Thomas,
71613 have to do with your work at Huntleigh, okay?
71714 If there is a question that comes up that
71815 has to do with Argenbright, I'll let you know. Fair
71916 enough?
72017 A. Okay.
72118 Q. While you were at Huntleigh, did you,
72219 yourself, ever provide other Huntleigh employees with
72320 classroom training where you were the instructor?
72421 A. Yes.
72522 Q. In the classroom?
72623 A. Not in the classroom, on the checkpoint.
72724 Q. Okay. You did on-the-job training?
72825 A. Right.
7290029
730 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
731 2 Q. You did leave Huntleigh after less than
732 3 12 months of employment. True?
733 4 A. Yes.
734 5 Q. I know there is different types of
735 6 training programs, but prior to your departure, would
736 7 it be accurate to say that you never attended any
737 8 checkpoint security, supervisor enhanced training or
738 9 recurrent training?
73910 A. No.
74011 Q. Do you know Jennifer Gore?
74112 A. Yes, sir.
74213 Q. When did you first meet Jennifer Gore?
74314 A. When I first started working for
74415 Huntleigh.
74516 Q. When was the last time that you had any
74617 contact with Jennifer Gore?
74718 A. It's been over two years.
74819 (Discussion off the record.)
74920 Q. I just want to clarify something. I asked
75021 a poor question earlier.
75122 In terms of any recurrent or enhanced CSS
75223 training, is it your testimony that while you were with
75324 Huntleigh, you never did any of that training?
75425 A. I've done that training, yes.
7550030
756 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
757 2 Q. Okay. And I'm not talking about original
758 3 CSS training. I'm talking about recurrent training or
759 4 training that takes place after the initial training.
760 5 Did you do any of that?
761 6 A. No.
762 7 Q. No, you didn't do it?
763 8 A. No. I didn't.
764 9 Q. Okay. Very well.
76510 Do you know whether Jennifer Gore has given
76611 a deposition in this case?
76712 A. Yes.
76813 Q. Do you know what she testified to at her
76914 deposition?
77015 A. No. Not exactly, no.
77116 Q. Have you read her deposition?
77217 A. No.
77318 Q. Mr. Thomas, can you tell us what your
77419 assignment was on 9/11?
77520 A. I was the security supervisor of the
77621 checkpoint.
77722 Q. Who was your immediate supervisor or boss
77823 that day?
77924 A. Francesco.
78025 Q. Do you recall his last name?
7810031
782 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
783 2 A. No.
784 3 Q. Do you know who Francesco's supervisor
785 4 was?
786 5 A. Bill Bourque.
787 6 Q. Maybe you could just provide us with your
788 7 understanding of the chain of command at Logan for
789 8 Huntleigh as it existed on 9/11. Just tell us who the
790 9 various supervisors were above you.
79110 A. For Huntleigh?
79211 Q. Yes.
79312 A. Francesco. There was another guy, I can't
79413 recall his name. Bill Bourque and Rita Rousseau.
79514 Q. Did Bill Bourque have an office at Logan?
79615 A. No.
79716 Q. Did -- was he assigned to and physically
79817 at the airport?
79918 A. Sometimes, yes.
80019 Q. Was he there on 9/11?
80120 A. Yes.
80221 Q. Was he there the morning of 9/11 before
80322 you learned of the attacks at the World Trade Center?
80423 A. Not that I can recall, no.
80524 Q. Do you know who the United Airlines
80625 station manager was at Logan on 9/11?
8070032
808 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
809 2 A. No. I don't.
810 3 Q. Was there somebody who was employed by
811 4 United Airlines on 9/11 or in the weeks before that you
812 5 could go to with any questions you had about security?
813 6 A. There was a few duty managers, but I can't
814 7 recall their names.
815 8 Q. Are you talking about GSCs or --
816 9 A. GSCs, yes.
81710 Q. Was one of those GSCs, Rosco Mills?
81811 A. Yes.
81912 Q. Do you recall working with Rosco Mills?
82013 A. Yes.
82114 Q. When was the last time you had any contact
82215 with Rosco Mills?
82316 A. Since I left Huntleigh. That is the last
82417 time I had any contact with him.
82518 Q. Do you recall the names of any other GSCs
82619 from United who were working at Logan on or before
82720 9/11?
82821 A. I can't recall their names, no.
82922 Q. Do you recall this: Was it -- were there
83023 a number of them, or just one or two that you would
83124 typically work with?
83225 A. It was just one or two.
8330033
834 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
835 2 Q. One was Rosco?
836 3 A. Rosco, and there was one other guy there.
837 4 I can't think of his name, though.
838 5 Q. By the way, I take it when you were
839 6 employed by Argenbright, you worked with and were
840 7 trained with the COG, the Checkpoint Operations Guide?
841 8 A. Yes.
842 9 Q. And the one that was used at Huntleigh was
84310 the same as the one used at Argenbright?
84411 A. Yes.
84512 Q. It's an industry trade publication --
84613 A. Yes.
84714 Q. -- that is universally used?
84815 A. Yes.
84916 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
85017 MR. ROSS: Objection.
85118 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
85219 BY MR. TOMASIK:
85320 Q. On or before 9/11, who was the person you
85421 would consider most knowledgeable at Huntleigh
85522 regarding aviation security?
85623 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
85724 A. The person most knowledgeable?
85825 MR. ROSS: Are you talking about in Boston
8590034
860 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
861 2 or at the whole company?
862 3 Q. In Boston.
863 4 A. I would say Bill Bourque --
864 5 Q. Okay.
865 6 A. -- at the time.
866 7 Q. If there was a question you needed
867 8 answered, was Mr. Bourque the person you would call?
868 9 A. Yes.
86910 Q. Is there anyone outside of Logan that you
87011 would have contacted?
87112 A. No.
87213 Q. Prior to your deposition, Mr. Thomas, I
87314 had your personnel file marked as Exhibit 237. I've
87415 got a few copies. It's a little voluminous. I'll let
87516 your counsel do with that as he may.
87617 (Personnel file of William
87718 Thomas marked Exhibit 237.)
87819 BY MR. TOMASIK:
87920 Q. Did you have an opportunity to review this
88021 before your deposition?
88122 A. Yes.
88223 Q. Okay. This first page is something that
88324 appears to be generated by Huntleigh, but would it be
88425 fair to say that it contains a summary of your work
8850035
886 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
887 2 history prior to your application?
888 3 A. Yes.
889 4 Q. And just a couple of questions. If we go
890 5 down to the bottom, it indicates that December, 1989,
891 6 through April, 1994, you were employed at
892 7 Central Warehouse?
893 8 A. Yes.
894 9 Q. What did you do there?
89510 A. I was a supervisor for returns.
89611 Q. I'm sorry?
89712 A. Returns supervisor.
89813 Q. It would be accurate to say that your
89914 duties and responsibilities at Central Warehouse had
90015 nothing to do with security?
90116 A. Correct.
90217 Q. There's an indication here that you were
90318 employed March, '94, through April, '95, at the Mobil
90419 station. That is your brother's station?
90520 A. Yes.
90621 Q. You told us about your work there?
90722 A. Yes.
90823 Q. Nothing to do with security?
90924 A. Nothing to do with it.
91025 Q. You had a brief, two-month period of
9110036
912 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
913 2 unemployment May, '95, through July, '95?
914 3 A. Yes.
915 4 Q. Did you apply to work anywhere during that
916 5 time period?
917 6 A. No. I was collecting unemployment.
918 7 Q. Okay.
919 8 MR. ROSS: Speak up just a little bit
920 9 more.
92110 Q. One point I was hoping, Mr. Thomas, you
92211 could clarify for us. Above that, there is an
92312 indication that August, '95, through June, '96, that
92413 you were unemployed; is that accurate?
92514 A. Yes.
92615 Q. During that ten-month period, sir, did you
92716 seek employment anywhere?
92817 A. No.
92918 Q. I believe in your file there is a letter
93019 from a Ms. Marion at Bell Atlantic to Huntleigh or
93120 prospective employers stating that you were unemployed
93221 during that period?
93322 A. Yes.
93423 Q. You are the godfather, I believe, to her
93524 children?
93625 A. Yes.
9370037
938 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
939 2 Q. If you could turn, sir, to the page -- all
940 3 of these pages are what we call Bates stamped with
941 4 numbers in the lower right. Do you see those?
942 5 A. Yes. Mm-hmm.
943 6 Q. If you go to Bates stamp 3041, which is
944 7 probably the fifth page inside, do we see your
945 8 application for employment?
946 9 A. Yes.
94710 Q. This was submitted on May 16, 2001?
94811 A. Yes.
94912 Q. At the time you submitted this application
95013 were you still employed by Argenbright?
95114 A. I can't recall.
95215 Q. Can you tell us why it is that you applied
95316 to Huntleigh in May of 2001?
95417 A. Because Argenbright lost the contract.
95518 Q. And their contract was at?
95619 A. Logan Airport.
95720 Q. If we could just turn a couple more pages
95821 to Page 3043, I'd just like to ask you a few questions
95922 about your prior employment, okay?
96023 A. Okay.
96124 Q. No. 6 indicates you worked at Kit Clark
96225 Senior Services in Dorchester; is that right?
9630038
964 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
965 2 A. Correct.
966 3 Q. Can you tell us the type of work you did
967 4 there?
968 5 A. Shipping and receiving. And cooking.
969 6 Q. And it indicates here that it was a
970 7 temporary position?
971 8 A. Yes, sir.
972 9 Q. Does that mean you weren't working full
97310 time?
97411 A. It was a full-time, temporary position.
97512 Q. Full-time, temporary position?
97613 A. Yes.
97714 Q. You were there for three months?
97815 A. Yes.
97916 Q. Weekly pay was $7 an hour?
98017 A. Yes.
98118 Q. I take it, sir, it would be accurate to
98219 say that while you worked in this position, you had
98320 absolutely no responsibilities for security?
98421 A. No responsibilities for security.
98522 Q. No training in security while you were
98623 there?
98724 A. No.
98825 Q. The next position that you indicated is
9890039
990 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
991 2 MF Reynolds Construction. You worked that job for
992 3 about a year; is that right?
993 4 A. Correct.
994 5 Q. Your pay when you left was $11 an hour?
995 6 A. Yes.
996 7 Q. And why is it you left that job?
997 8 A. Tired of working outside.
998 9 Q. I believe you told us that you saw an ad
99910 in the newspaper and you applied to Argenbright; is
100011 that right?
100112 A. Yes.
100213 Q. I'm hoping you can maybe just straighten a
100314 few things out with us regarding your Argenbright
100415 employment because it looks like you moved around a
100516 little bit; is that accurate?
100617 A. Yes. Mm-hmm.
100718 Q. And while you were employed at
100819 Argenbright, did you leave and come back a couple of
100920 times?
101021 A. Yes. I did.
101122 Q. Can you tell us about that?
101223 A. I just -- I left. I guess when I left, I
101324 was trying to find other work. And I couldn't find
101425 other work so I came back. Plus in between there, I
10150040
1016 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1017 2 worked for Argenbright on the other part of Argenbright
1018 3 Security, site security, like buildings like this
1019 4 downstairs in the lobby. Doing that kind of work for
1020 5 Argenbright.
1021 6 Q. Okay. Well, let's take a look. You
1022 7 indicate in box No. 4 that you worked for Argenbright
1023 8 November, '97, through August, '99. You started at
1024 9 $5.75 an hour and worked up to $8.50 an hour. What
102510 type of work were you doing during that time period?
102611 A. I was a PDS and a CSS.
102712 Q. Was all of that time spent working in
102813 aviation security?
102914 A. Yes.
103015 Q. At Logan?
103116 A. Yes.
103217 Q. You then left Argenbright, I believe, and
103318 you went to OneSource?
103419 A. One, yes.
103520 Q. So, you had, in essence, quit your work
103621 with Argenbright?
103722 A. No.
103823 Q. Is OneSource a part of Argenbright?
103924 A. No. OneSource is in the airport, though.
104025 Q. Okay. Well, were you -- in Box 4, it
10410041
1042 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1043 2 states that you were employed from 11/97 to 8/99 with
1044 3 Argenbright. Do you see that?
1045 4 A. Mm-hmm.
1046 5 Q. So, in August, '99, did you terminate your
1047 6 work with Argenbright?
1048 7 A. No.
1049 8 Q. You were still working with Argenbright
1050 9 after 8/99?
105110 A. Yes.
105211 Q. Where were you working?
105312 A. I was working on sites, security sites. I
105413 wasn't working at the airport.
105514 Q. Buildings outside the airport?
105615 A. Yes, yes.
105716 Q. Was that security work?
105817 A. Yes.
105918 Q. Would it be accurate to say that the work
106019 you were doing after you left this particular
106120 assignment had nothing to do with the screening of
106221 passengers?
106322 A. Correct.
106423 Q. There is an indication here in Box 3 that
106524 you went to work for OneSource?
106625 A. Yes.
10670042
1068 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1069 2 Q. That is a company that is not in any way
1070 3 related to Argenbright?
1071 4 A. Yes.
1072 5 Q. And Were you working at OneSource the same
1073 6 time you were working at Argenbright?
1074 7 A. Yes.
1075 8 Q. Can you tell us the sort of work you were
1076 9 doing at OneSource?
107710 A. I was cleaning the airport. The airport
107811 janitor.
107912 Q. Okay. Your pay in this job was, I
108013 believe, $9.20 an hour; is that right?
108114 A. Yes.
108215 Q. And then can you tell us your reason for
108316 leaving that position?
108417 A. I believe it was a language barrier I just
108518 couldn't deal with.
108619 Q. Language barrier with supervisors?
108720 A. Yes.
108821 Q. You would agree that language barriers in
108922 the workplace can cause a disruption of work?
109023 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
109124 MR. ELLIS: Objection.
109225 COUNSEL: Objection to the form of the
10930043
1094 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1095 2 question.
1096 3 MR. ROSS: Objection.
1097 4 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1098 5 Q. You can answer.
1099 6 THE WITNESS: Can I answer?
1100 7 MR. ROSS: You can answer.
1101 8 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question?
1102 9 BY MR. TOMASIK:
110310 Q. I mean you can agree, can't you, that when
110411 there are language barriers between workers, it can
110512 cause a disruption in the work you're trying to get
110613 done?
110714 A. Yes.
110815 COUNSEL: Objection.
110916 MR. CONNORS: Objection. Calls for a
111017 legal conclusion.
111118 BY MR. TOMASIK:
111219 Q. Now, Box 2, you indicate Argenbright
111320 Security again. Do you see that?
111421 A. Yes.
111522 Q. It says transfer to commercial?
111623 A. Yes.
111724 Q. Can you just explain to us what was going
111825 on here?
11190044
1120 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1121 2 A. That is what I was doing, I was working
1122 3 there. I was working on the sites there.
1123 4 Q. It says checkpoint security supervisor.
1124 5 And this is from April, 2000, to October, 2000; is that
1125 6 right?
1126 7 A. Yes.
1127 8 Q. Were you back at Logan at this time?
1128 9 A. At that time? No -- I mean, yes. Yes, I
112910 was there.
113011 Q. And what was your -- what were your duties
113112 and responsibilities at that time?
113213 A. I think I was CSS at that time.
113314 Q. Okay. Did you leave Argenbright in
113415 October, 2000?
113516 A. Yes.
113617 Q. Why did you leave?
113718 A. For a better job.
113819 Q. You were looking for better pay?
113920 A. Yes.
114021 Q. Better benefits?
114122 A. Yes.
114223 Q. Did you have any benefits while you were
114324 with Argenbright?
114425 A. No.
11450045
1146 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1147 2 Q. You shortly came back to Argenbright; is
1148 3 that right?
1149 4 A. Yes.
1150 5 Q. And when you left the first time, you were
1151 6 getting paid $9.50 an hour. True?
1152 7 A. From Argenbright?
1153 8 Q. Yes. It says in Box 2 you were $9.50 an
1154 9 hour.
115510 A. Yes.
115611 Q. And when you came back two or three weeks
115712 later to Argenbright, they accepted you back, but your
115813 salary dropped down to $8.50 an hour?
115914 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
116015 A. Yes.
116116 MR. ROSS: That is a little misleading
116217 since it's for a different job. I mean --
116318 MR. TOMASIK: Thanks. I'll clarify that,
116419 John.
116520 BY MR. TOMASIK:
116621 Q. Can you tell us why it is that you went
116722 back to Argenbright after a couple of weeks?
116823 A. Yeah. I liked the security, airport
116924 security. Doing security, airport security. I liked
117025 doing airport security.
11710046
1172 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1173 2 Q. When you left, though, you were looking
1174 3 for a higher paying job?
1175 4 A. Yes.
1176 5 Q. Did you apply anywhere else during that
1177 6 time period?
1178 7 A. Yes.
1179 8 Q. Where did you apply?
1180 9 A. I did some -- actually, I did some work on
118110 the side doing security -- I mean doing construction.
118211 Q. And when you went back to Argenbright, you
118312 went back as a security officer?
118413 A. Yes.
118514 Q. And when you went back to Argenbright as a
118615 security officer, your hourly wage was $8.50, which was
118716 lower than when you left?
118817 A. Yes.
118918 Q. Mr. Thomas, did you ever submit an
119019 application to the TSA?
119120 A. Yes.
119221 Q. And did you -- were you interviewed by the
119322 TSA?
119423 A. On the phone, yes.
119524 Q. Were you ever -- and what type of position
119625 were you seeking with the TSA?
11970047
1198 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1199 2 A. Security. Airport security.
1200 3 Q. Airport security?
1201 4 A. Yes.
1202 5 Q. Did they ask you to take a test of any
1203 6 kind?
1204 7 A. Yes.
1205 8 Q. Did you take that test?
1206 9 A. Yes.
120710 Q. Did the TSA offer you a job?
120811 A. No.
120912 Q. If you could turn to Page 3075 of the
121013 Screener Policy and Procedure Manual, sir.
121114 MR. ROSS: You mean of the personnel file?
121215 MR. TOMASIK: I'm sorry. The personnel
121316 file.
121417 BY MR. TOMASIK:
121518 Q. Let me rephrase that.
121619 Your personnel file, if you could turn to
121720 3075. Are you at that page, sir?
121821 A. Yes, I do.
121922 Q. I think you told us one of the documents
122023 you reviewed prior to your deposition was the Screener
122124 Policy and Procedures Manual; is that right?
122225 A. Yes.
12230048
1224 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1225 2 Q. Okay. On this particular page, if we look
1226 3 at the top of the page, do you see that second
1227 4 paragraph that starts with "Huntleigh"?
1228 5 A. Yes.
1229 6 Q. It states, "Huntleigh expects each
1230 7 screener in its employ to read this manual, understand
1231 8 it, and ask questions if there is any doubt about any
1232 9 information contained herein."
123310 When you were at Huntleigh, you were asked
123411 to read that manual, right?
123512 A. Yes.
123613 Q. And you did?
123714 A. Yes.
123815 Q. Below here, we do see your -- there is in
123916 capital letters, Screener Policy and Procedures Manual,
124017 and below there we see your signature?
124118 A. Yes.
124219 Q. You signed that on June 1st, 2001?
124320 A. Right.
124421 Q. Could you read to us, sir, just the first
124522 sentence of the paragraph above your signature?
124623 A. Above my signature?
124724 Q. Yes.
124825 A. "Screener Policy and Procedures Manual."
12490049
1250 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1251 2 Q. And then the first sentence there?
1252 3 A. Okay. "I, William Thomas, having been
1253 4 given a copy of the Huntleigh Screener Policy and
1254 5 Procedures Manual. I have read the manual" --
1255 6 MR. ROSS: He just asked for one sentence.
1256 7 I don't know what we're doing here, Tim, but --
1257 8 Q. Well, it just -- go ahead and read the
1258 9 second sentence and I'll ask you a question.
125910 MR. ROSS: Okay.
126011 THE WITNESS: "I have read the manual and
126112 agree to abide by the company policy contained
126213 therein."
126314 Q. And it's true, you -- I think you told us
126415 you read the manual?
126516 A. (Witness nodded.)
126617 Q. You understood -- I'm sorry, is that a
126718 yes?
126819 A. Yes.
126920 Q. You understood that it contained company
127021 policy?
127122 A. Yes.
127223 Q. It was required that you understand those
127324 policies before you went to work for Huntleigh?
127425 A. Yes.
12750050
1276 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1277 2 Q. Do you still have a copy of this manual at
1278 3 home?
1279 4 A. No.
1280 5 Q. Did you give it back when you left
1281 6 Huntleigh?
1282 7 A. Yes.
1283 8 Q. At any time prior to your departure, did
1284 9 any supervisor at Huntleigh come to you and tell you
128510 that anything in the Screener Policy and Procedure
128611 Manual was incorrect or had changed?
128712 A. No. Not that I can recall.
128813 Q. I'd just like to ask you a few questions
128914 about the manual, sir.
129015 MR. TOMASIK: I made copies, John, if that
129116 is okay. I think he's got one there.
129217 MR. ROSS: He does? I don't think so.
129318 He's got his personnel file.
129419 MR. TOMASIK: Oh.
129520 MR. ROSS: Do you have a copy for him or
129621 me? I can give it -- oh, there, I'm sorry.
129722 MR. TOMASIK: Yeah. Thank you. My fault.
129823 BY MR. TOMASIK:
129924 Q. Just a few questions about the Screener
130025 Policy and Procedure Manual, which was previously
13010051
1302 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1303 2 marked as Exhibit 132 during the deposition of
1304 3 Mr. Hudspeth. Does that name sound familiar to you?
1305 4 A. Hudspeth? No.
1306 5 Q. Okay. I think let's turn to the first
1307 6 page. The first sentence states, "Huntleigh is a
1308 7 contractor for airport services. Airlines hire
1309 8 Huntleigh to provide various services at airports."
1310 9 Was it your understanding that Huntleigh was
131110 hired at Logan to provide services for United?
131211 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
131312 A. Yes, it was -- not just United. Just to
131413 the airport.
131514 Q. The next -- the next paragraph states that
131615 Huntleigh provides screening, skycap, and attendant
131716 services. And my question to you, Mr. Thomas, is that
131817 there were a number of different things that Huntleigh
131918 provided outside of aviation security. True?
132019 MR. ROSS: Objection to form. Are you
132120 talking about at Logan?
132221 MR. TOMASIK: At Logan.
132322 MR. ROSS: Because their different
132423 airports had different services.
132524 MR. TOMASIK: I understand.
132625 MR. ROSS: Okay. So, he wants to know
13270052
1328 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1329 2 what you know about what Huntleigh provided at Logan.
1330 3 THE WITNESS: Skycap, wheelchairs,
1331 4 security.
1332 5 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1333 6 Q. Baggage handlers?
1334 7 A. Baggage handlers, same thing as skycap.
1335 8 Q. In the third paragraph on this page,
1336 9 Mr. Thomas, the second sentence states, "Airlines view
133710 our company" -- strike that. I'll withdraw the
133811 question.
133912 I'll tell you what, if you could turn to
134013 Page 1246, which I think is Page 5 in the manual. It's
134114 this page here (indicating).
134215 A. Yes.
134316 Q. Okay. Are we there?
134417 Okay. That second paragraph states, "People
134518 passing through the screening point do not see you as
134619 an employee of Huntleigh, but as an employee and
134720 representative of the airline."
134821 Do you see that?
134922 A. Yes.
135023 Q. And is that something you were instructed
135124 and taught by Huntleigh?
135225 A. No.
13530053
1354 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1355 2 Q. I mean did you understand, though, when
1356 3 you were working on 9/11 as a checkpoint security
1357 4 screener, that you were acting as a representative of
1358 5 United Airlines?
1359 6 A. Yes.
1360 7 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
1361 8 Q. And -- and if we look at this particular
1362 9 paragraph, it's true that it doesn't say that you're a
136310 representative of the FAA, does it?
136411 A. The same paragraph?
136512 Q. Yes.
136613 A. No. It doesn't say that.
136714 Q. And, in fact, it would be accurate to say
136815 at no time were you taught or instructed that when you
136916 were working as a screener, that you were acting as a
137017 representative of the FAA?
137118 A. Correct.
137219 Q. If we go to the next page, which is 1247,
137320 there is a paragraph about a sterile area. You recall
137421 that term, don't you?
137522 A. Yes.
137623 Q. A sterile area was considered to be the
137724 area past the checkpoint screening equipment?
137825 A. Anything past the checkpoint.
13790054
1380 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1381 2 Q. It includes the airplane?
1382 3 A. Yes.
1383 4 Q. This particular paragraph states that "a
1384 5 sterile area is established by reasonably ascertaining
1385 6 that no explosive, incendiaries or deadly or dangerous
1386 7 weapons or unauthorized person, persons are not allowed
1387 8 within the area, and that all persons entering the area
1388 9 are screened to prevent the introduction of such
138910 objects."
139011 Do you see that?
139112 A. Which paragraph?
139213 Q. In the first -- I just read the first
139314 sentence of the first paragraph.
139415 A. Yes. I see it.
139516 Q. And you were taught and instructed by
139617 Huntleigh that as a screener and supervisor of
139718 screeners it was your responsibility to prevent the
139819 introduction of unauthorized objects?
139920 A. Correct.
140021 Q. That included weapons?
140122 A. Yes.
140223 Q. During your training at Huntleigh, were
140324 you shown a video that was entitled, "First Line of
140425 Defense"?
14050055
1406 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1407 2 A. No.
1408 3 Q. Is it possible you were shown that video
1409 4 and you don't recall?
1410 5 MR. ROSS: Hold on a second.
1411 6 Is it possible that he was shown a video
1412 7 that he doesn't recall?
1413 8 MR. TOMASIK: Yes.
1414 9 BY MR. TOMASIK:
141510 Q. Well, here, I asked you --
141611 MR. ROSS: I object to form.
141712 Q. Well, just to clarify, there is a video --
141813 did you see videos during your training?
141914 A. Yes. I did.
142015 Q. Do you recall the names of those videos?
142116 A. No. I don't.
142217 Q. Is it possible that the names of the --
142318 one of the names of one of those videos is "First Line
142419 of Defense" and you simply don't recall?
142520 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
142621 Q. You can answer.
142722 A. No.
142823 Q. Do you recall the names of any of the
142924 videos?
143025 A. Do I recall any of the names of any of the
14310056
1432 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1433 2 videos?
1434 3 MR. ROSS: Objection. Asked and answered.
1435 4 MR. TOMASIK: No. I didn't ask him that
1436 5 question.
1437 6 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1438 7 Q. Do you recall the names of any of the
1439 8 videos that you viewed during your training?
1440 9 A. One.
144110 Q. And what was the name of it?
144211 A. SITA.
144312 Q. I'm sorry?
144413 A. SITA.
144514 Q. SITA. Thank you.
144615 As of 9/11, Mr. Thomas, after a passenger
144716 cleared a checkpoint at Logan, it's true, isn't it,
144817 that there was no further screening prior to that
144918 passenger getting on an airplane?
145019 A. Before or after 9/11?
145120 Q. Before 9/11.
145221 A. Before? There was no screening, no.
145322 Q. Anyway, a few moments ago I was asking you
145423 about the instruction you received by Huntleigh to
145524 prevent the introduction of dangerous weapons and
145625 objects into the sterile area. Do you recall that?
14570057
1458 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1459 2 A. Yes.
1460 3 Q. The checkpoint operation guide is
1461 4 something that defines and describes those objects?
1462 5 A. Yes.
1463 6 Q. I think you told us you looked at a copy
1464 7 of that before your deposition?
1465 8 A. Yes.
1466 9 (Discussion off the record.)
146710 MR. TOMASIK: What I'd like to do, this is
146811 a document that has been marked several times in this
146912 litigation. I do have with me today a copy of the
147013 Huntleigh COG. I would just like to have that marked,
147114 if I could, and shown to the witness.
147215 (Huntleigh COG marked
147316 Exhibit 238.)
147417 MR. TOMASIK: It's being marked as
147518 Exhibit 238.
147619 THE WITNESS: This is the Huntleigh COG?
147720 BY MR. TOMASIK:
147821 Q. This is the Huntleigh COG.
147922 MR. ROSS: He's going to ask you. You can
148023 take a look at it.
148124 Q. Sir, does that appear to be a copy of the
148225 Huntleigh COG?
14830058
1484 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1485 2 A. It appears to be.
1486 3 Q. Do you see the H Bates stamp on the
1487 4 bottom? There is an H, if you go to the bottom left of
1488 5 any page in that document?
1489 6 MR. ROSS: He doesn't know about Bates
1490 7 stamping.
1491 8 Q. I think you told us before that the COG
1492 9 was a guide that was standard in the aviation security
149310 industry as of 9/11?
149411 A. Yes.
149512 Q. By the way, when you switched from
149613 Argenbright to Huntleigh, did you notice any
149714 differences at all between the COG at Argenbright and
149815 the COG at Huntleigh?
149916 COUNSEL: Objection to the form.
150017 A. No, I didn't.
150118 Q. There has been several copies marked, as I
150219 mentioned. Here is another one that is marked as
150320 Exhibit A-1, which is one that was produced by United
150421 Airlines.
150522 I think you told us you were working for
150623 United Airlines as of 9/11; is that right?
150724 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
150825 A. No.
15090059
1510 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1511 2 Q. I mean you were acting as a representative
1512 3 of United Airlines conducting security screening as of
1513 4 9/11?
1514 5 A. Acting as a representative?
1515 6 COUNSEL: Objection to form.
1516 7 Q. Yes.
1517 8 A. I was working for Huntleigh.
1518 9 Q. All right. Could you just go back to
151910 Exhibit 132 for a moment. I just want to ask you a
152011 question.
152112 MR. ROSS: What is 132?
152213 MR. TOMASIK: That is the screener manual.
152314 MR. ROSS: Yeah. You got it.
152415 BY MR. TOMASIK:
152516 Q. Can you go to Page 1249. The first
152617 paragraph there, there is a title over it, Mr. Thomas,
152718 "Standards for Screening Personnel." Do you see that?
152819 A. Yes.
152920 Q. The first sentence states, "Each screener
153021 is employed by Huntleigh, but you are also a
153122 representative of the airline you serve."
153223 Did I read that correctly?
153324 A. Yes.
153425 Q. Do you understand that to mean that while
15350060
1536 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1537 2 you are employed by Huntleigh, you are representing the
1538 3 airline that you serve?
1539 4 MR. CURCIO: Objection to form.
1540 5 COUNSEL: Objection to form.
1541 6 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1542 7 Q. Is that your understanding?
1543 8 A. Yes, sir.
1544 9 Q. And the airline that you were serving on
154510 9/11 was United Airlines?
154611 A. Not just United.
154712 Q. What other airlines were you serving that
154813 day?
154914 A. I had Delta over there, too.
155015 Q. Terminal C?
155116 A. Yes.
155217 Q. Okay. So, it would be accurate say, and
155318 thank for your clarification, that United Airlines was
155419 one of the airlines you were serving on 9/11?
155520 A. Right.
155621 Q. Okay. Are you doing okay or do you want
155722 to take a break?
155823 A. I'm okay.
155924 MR. ROSS: We've been going for about an
156025 hour, though, so when you get to a convenient spot, I
15610061
1562 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1563 2 just like to take a break every hour. So, if we can
1564 3 take a break?
1565 4 MR. TOMASIK: Yes. We can take it right
1566 5 now.
1567 6 (A recess was taken.)
1568 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record.
1569 8 The time is 10:14.
1570 9 BY MR. TOMASIK:
157110 Q. I think we're back on the record here.
157211 Mr. Thomas, in a few moments I'm going to have some
157312 questions about the COG. Before we do that, I just
157413 wanted to clarify a couple of things.
157514 When you returned to work at Argenbright for
157615 that lower wage that we were discussing.
157716 A. Yes.
157817 Q. Do you remember that?
157918 A. Yes.
158019 Q. That was for a security position
158120 outside --
158221 A. Outside the airport.
158322 Q. Outside of passenger screening?
158423 A. Yes.
158524 Q. Okay. And in regards to your employment
158625 at Huntleigh while you were there during those several
15870062
1588 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1589 2 months, did you have any medical insurance? Did they
1590 3 provide that for you?
1591 4 A. No.
1592 5 Q. Did they provide you any dental insurance?
1593 6 A. Yes.
1594 7 Q. Any other benefits that you can think of
1595 8 they provided?
1596 9 A. No.
159710 Q. While you were at Huntleigh, how would you
159811 describe the turnover in regards to new screeners
159912 coming in and screeners leaving the company?
160013 A. Pretty frequent.
160114 Q. High rate of turnover?
160215 A. Yes.
160316 Q. Why do you think that was?
160417 MR. ROSS: Objection, to the extent you're
160518 asking him to speculate.
160619 Q. You can answer.
160720 A. I think it was due to money.
160821 Q. Low pay?
160922 A. Yes.
161023 Q. Not enough benefits?
161124 A. Yes. Not enough benefits, low pay.
161225 Q. When you read the 9/11 Commission report
16130063
1614 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1615 2 and the other 9/11 items that you may have been exposed
1616 3 to, did you see anything about the high rate of
1617 4 turnover in security screening as being a problem?
1618 5 A. Not that I can recall.
1619 6 Q. Based on your experience as a checkpoint
1620 7 security screener, do you believe that screeners with
1621 8 the most experience tend to do a better job?
1622 9 A. Yes.
162310 MR. CONNORS: Objection, form.
162411 (Discussion off the record.)
162512 Q. And based on your experience as a
162613 checkpoint supervisor for screeners, do you believe
162714 that new and inexperienced screeners aren't as thorough
162815 as more experienced screeners?
162916 MR. CONNORS: Objection to form.
163017 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection to form.
163118 MR. ROSS: Objection.
163219 BY MR. TOMASIK:
163320 Q. You can answer.
163421 A. Yes.
163522 MR. TOMASIK: I'm going to go with your
163623 COG.
163724 Q. We had marked a moment ago a COG --
163825 MR. TOMASIK: -- what number was that?
16390064
1640 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1641 2 MR. ROSS: 238.
1642 3 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1643 4 Q. No. 238. I'm going to ask you several
1644 5 questions about the COG here today. Could you turn to
1645 6 Page 5-7?
1646 7 MR. ROSS: Bates 30351.
1647 8 Q. Do you see that page, sir?
1648 9 A. Yes, I do.
164910 Q. This particular section is entitled, "Hand
165011 Carried Items, Weapons and Explosive Devices," is that
165112 right?
165213 A. Yes.
165314 Q. It states, "Items in this category, flare
165415 pistols, revolvers, long guns, automatic weapons,
165516 long-bladed knives, explosives and explosive devices
165617 may not enter the sterile area." Do you see that?
165718 A. Yes.
165819 Q. That was true on 9/11?
165920 A. Yes, it was.
166021 Q. And if you turn to the next page, do you
166122 see a list of items in the next following pages that
166223 were restricted or prohibited, do you see that?
166324 A. Yes, I do.
166425 Q. I would like to talk to you about that a
16650065
1666 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1667 2 little bit. So, if you can just leave that page open
1668 3 for a moment. Before I ask you those questions, I just
1669 4 wanted to ask you one last question about your Screener
1670 5 Policy and Procedure Manual, which was 132, which is
1671 6 this right here (indicating)?
1672 7 MR. TOMASIK: Off the record.
1673 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record.
1674 9 The time is 10:19.
167510 (Discussion off the record.)
167611 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record.
167712 The time is 10:21.
167813 BY MR. TOMASIK:
167914 Q. Mr. Thomas, I'm going to be asking you
168015 some questions about the COG, but before I do, I just
168116 wanted to go back to Exhibit 132, Page 1254. I think
168217 you have that in front of you. Do you see that?
168318 A. Yes.
168419 Q. It's entitled, "Inspection of Hand Carried
168520 Items," is that right?
168621 A. Correct.
168722 Q. There is a paragraph there, second one,
168823 that reads, "The following guidelines should be used to
168924 determine what property in the possession of a
169025 passenger should be considered as a weapon or dangerous
16910066
1692 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1693 2 object. These are only guidelines. Common sense
1694 3 should always prevail."
1695 4 Do you see that?
1696 5 A. Yes.
1697 6 Q. You were always taught to exercise common
1698 7 sense when determining whether something was a
1699 8 dangerous object; is that right?
1700 9 A. Yes.
170110 Q. And you taught screeners who were doing
170211 their on-the-job training to exercise their common
170312 sense in making those determinations?
170413 A. Yes.
170514 Q. You'll see here at the bottom of the page
170615 "All tear gas, mace and similar chemicals and gases,
170716 whether in a pistol or canister or other container and
170817 other disabling devices, such as electronic, stunning
170918 and shocking devices were considered dangerous," right?
171019 MR. ROSS: Objection.
171120 A. Yes.
171221 Q. The sentence below the paragraph I read
171322 above here, states that the following objects should be
171423 considered dangerous and should not pass the screening
171524 area?
171625 A. Yes.
17170067
1718 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1719 2 Q. If we go to the next page, it states,
1720 3 "Other articles, such items as ice picks, straight
1721 4 razors, elongated scissors, etc., are not commonly
1722 5 thought of as dangerous weapons, but the possession of
1723 6 which supports the reasonable assumption it could be
1724 7 used as a weapon, including toy or dummy weapons or
1725 8 grenades."
1726 9 Those were considered dangerous items; is
172710 that right?
172811 A. Yes. Yes, they were.
172912 Q. Okay. Now, if you could -- if you could
173013 take a look again at your employment file, which is
173114 Page 3099, if you can get to that page, please. This
173215 is entitled, "Emergency Procedures, Breach of Screening
173316 Checkpoint." Do you see that?
173417 A. Yes.
173518 Q. It states, "A breach is when an individual
173619 or object or both penetrates the security checkpoint
173720 without being properly cleared through the preboard
173821 screening process in accordance with FAA regulations."
173922 Did I read that correctly?
174023 A. Yes.
174124 Q. One of your responsibilities as a
174225 checkpoint security supervisor was to ensure that
17430068
1744 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1745 2 breaches did not occur?
1746 3 A. Correct.
1747 4 Q. And if we take a look at the COG, which we
1748 5 were talking about before we took a break with the
1749 6 court reporter, there is a list of items not allowed to
1750 7 enter the sterile area. Do you see that?
1751 8 A. Yes.
1752 9 Q. One of the items is a box cutter. Do you
175310 see that?
175411 A. Yes, I do.
175512 Q. You would agree that a box cutter is a
175613 dangerous item?
175714 A. Yes.
175815 Q. It was restricted?
175916 A. Yes.
176017 Q. If it made it through the checkpoint, that
176118 would be a breach in procedures?
176219 MR. ROSS: Objection.
176320 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection to form.
176421 COUNSEL: Objection.
176522 BY MR. TOMASIK:
176623 Q. True?
176724 A. True.
176825 MR. ROSS: Objection again.
17690069
1770 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1771 2 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1772 3 Q. If we go to the next page, we see other
1773 4 items that are listed as not allowed to enter the
1774 5 sterile area. Do you see that?
1775 6 A. Yes.
1776 7 Q. Ice pick was a restricted item, true?
1777 8 A. Yes.
1778 9 Q. Not allowed?
177910 A. Right.
178011 Q. The next item are knives. Blades over
178112 four inches or menacing. Do you see that?
178213 A. Yes.
178314 Q. Those are restricted items?
178415 A. Yes, they are.
178516 Q. They were dangerous objects?
178617 A. Yes.
178718 Q. The reason why they were dangerous is
178819 because you were instructed that in the hands of a
178920 hijacker they could be used to hurt or kill someone?
179021 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
179122 COUNSEL: Objection.
179223 MR. ROSS: You're asking him if he was
179324 instructed that way?
179425 MR. TOMASIK: Yes.
17950070
1796 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1797 2 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1798 3 Q. You can answer.
1799 4 A. I wasn't instructed that way.
1800 5 Q. You were instructed, though, that knives
1801 6 were restricted?
1802 7 MR. ROSS: Objection.
1803 8 A. Knives over four inches.
1804 9 BY MR. TOMASIK:
180510 Q. True?
180611 A. Knives over 4 inches were restricted.
180712 Q. And it could be a knife less than four
180813 inches if it was menacing, correct?
180914 A. What do you mean, "menacing"?
181015 Q. Would you understand a knife with a blade
181116 that was serrated as being menacing?
181217 A. I was instructed that if it was over
181318 four inches, it was restricted.
181419 Q. But a box cutter of any length would be
181520 restricted. True?
181621 A. A box cutter? Define box cutter.
181722 Q. Do you know what a box cutter is?
181823 A. Yes.
181924 Q. And were you taught, instructed by
182025 Huntleigh what a box cutter was?
18210071
1822 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1823 2 A. No.
1824 3 Q. Did they ever show you a box cutter in
1825 4 training?
1826 5 A. What they showed me was a utility knife.
1827 6 Q. Okay. And when you say utility knife, do
1828 7 you mean a knife with a razor blade?
1829 8 A. Yes.
1830 9 Q. And you understood that those items were
183110 restricted?
183211 A. Yes.
183312 Q. And they're restricted regardless of the
183413 length of the blade?
183514 A. Yes.
183615 Q. And if one of those knives were to make it
183716 through the checkpoint, that would be a breach in
183817 procedures?
183918 A. Correct.
184019 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
184120 Q. You also understood that mace was a
184221 restricted item?
184322 A. Yes.
184423 Q. It's listed here?
184524 A. Yes. It's listed.
184625 Q. If it made it through the checkpoint, it
18470072
1848 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1849 2 would be a breach of security procedures?
1850 3 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
1851 4 COUNSEL: Objection.
1852 5 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1853 6 Q. You can answer.
1854 7 A. It would be a breach.
1855 8 Q. Down below, do you see pepper spray listed
1856 9 on the list of restricted items?
185710 A. Yes.
185811 Q. Does that refresh your recollection that
185912 pepper spray was, in fact, restricted as of 9/11?
186013 A. As of 9/11, yes.
186114 Q. If that did make it through the
186215 checkpoint, that would be a breach in security
186316 procedures?
186417 MR. ROSS: Objection.
186518 A. Yes.
186619 Q. Your responsibility as of 9/11 was to
186720 oversee screeners who had a responsibility to prevent
186821 mace, box cutters, and other menacing knives from
186922 getting through security?
187023 A. Yes.
187124 COUNSEL: Objection to form.
187225 Q. Mr. Thomas, I'd like to briefly talk to
18730073
1874 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1875 2 you about the training you underwent at Huntleigh
1876 3 before you started work at the checkpoint, okay?
1877 4 A. Yes.
1878 5 Q. And it's true that Huntleigh made you,
1879 6 even though you worked in screening, go through all the
1880 7 training again?
1881 8 A. Yes.
1882 9 Q. During the classroom training that you had
188310 at Huntleigh, were you ever tested on the
188411 identification, say, with an x-ray machine, of box
188512 cutters?
188613 A. I'll say no.
188714 Q. Did they ever test you on the
188815 identification with an x-ray machine of an ice pick?
188916 A. Yes.
189017 Q. We've talked a little bit about mace here
189118 today. During your training with Huntleigh, did they
189219 ever train and teach you as how to identify mace
189320 through the use of an x-ray machine?
189421 A. No.
189522 Q. Same would be true for pepper spray?
189623 A. Correct. It would be true.
189724 Q. There were times, were there not, when
189825 screeners at the airport would be subjected to audits
18990074
1900 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1901 2 by United Airlines or the FAA in regards to the
1902 3 identification of restricted items?
1903 4 A. Yes.
1904 5 Q. While you were working at Huntleigh for
1905 6 those three months, was there ever an occasion where
1906 7 somebody from United Airlines attempted to breach the
1907 8 checkpoint with a razor knife?
1908 9 A. No.
190910 Q. With a box cutter?
191011 A. No.
191112 Q. With mace?
191213 A. No.
191314 Q. Would it be accurate to say -- or pepper
191415 spray?
191516 A. No.
191617 Q. Would it be accurate to say in terms of
191718 the audits that were going on at the checkpoint itself
191819 prior to 9/11, Huntleigh employees were not being
191920 tested on the detection of those items?
192021 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
192122 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
192223 THE WITNESS: I would say no.
192324 BY MR. TOMASIK:
192425 Q. No, they weren't?
19250075
1926 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1927 2 A. No, they weren't.
1928 3 Q. I want to just clarify one thing. You
1929 4 understand, do you not, from your training that if a
1930 5 knife was less than four inches, but considered
1931 6 menacing as stated here in the COG, that it was not
1932 7 allowed past the checkpoint?
1933 8 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
1934 9 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
193510 THE WITNESS: No. It wasn't allowed.
193611 BY MR. TOMASIK:
193712 Q. Okay. If at any time you -- or there was
193813 a passenger identified with a knife hidden in a
193914 waistband or around an ankle, regardless of length,
194015 would that knife be confiscated?
194116 A. Yes, it would.
194217 Q. And why is that?
194318 A. Because he was trying to hide it.
194419 Q. Do you agree that pat-down searches
194520 increase a screener's ability to detect a knife or a
194621 box cutter hidden in someone's waistband?
194722 A. Yes.
194823 Q. Do you agree that pat-down searches
194924 increases the screener's ability to identify and
195025 confiscate box cutters or knives that may be hidden in
19510076
1952 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1953 2 the ankle area?
1954 3 A. Yes.
1955 4 Q. And that's true, equally true, do you
1956 5 agree, that hand wanding increases a screener's ability
1957 6 to identify a box cutter or knife that may be hidden in
1958 7 somebody's waistband, but wasn't detected by the
1959 8 magnetometer? A walk through?
1960 9 A. You said identified?
196110 Q. Alarm.
196211 A. Yes.
196312 Q. You would also agree that increasing the
196413 number of passengers who are hand wanded would increase
196514 a screener's ability to confiscate restricted items?
196615 A. Yes.
196716 Q. If you could turn to -- if you have that
196817 COG in front of you, sir?
196918 A. Yes.
197019 MR. ROSS: 238. Yeah.
197120 BY MR. TOMASIK:
197221 Q. One second, Mr. Thomas.
197322 Here we go. If you could just turn to --
197423 sorry for the delay. It's the page that is marked
197524 30402.
197625 (Witness complies.)
19770077
1978 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
1979 2 COUNSEL: Can we have a section number?
1980 3 MR. TOMASIK: You know, it's actually an
1981 4 appendix. It's three of seven. This is the on-the-job
1982 5 training object certification test.
1983 6 BY MR. TOMASIK:
1984 7 Q. So, again -- there you go. It's 3042; is
1985 8 that right, Mr. Thomas?
1986 9 A. Yes.
198710 Q. This particular page is an on-the-job
198811 object certification test; is that right?
198912 A. Yes.
199013 Q. You've seen this before?
199114 A. Yes, I have.
199215 Q. You filled these out before?
199316 A. Yes, I have.
199417 Q. You've tested screeners based upon the
199518 format laid out on this form?
199619 A. Yes.
199720 Q. If we take a look at the weapon section,
199821 nowhere is there a line item for box cutters. True?
199922 A. No. There is not.
200023 Q. Nowhere is there a line item for utility
200124 knife. True?
200225 A. Correct.
20030078
2004 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2005 2 Q. Nowhere is there a line item for razor
2006 3 knife. True?
2007 4 A. Correct.
2008 5 Q. Nowhere is there a line item for mace or
2009 6 pepper spray?
2010 7 A. Correct.
2011 8 Q. And that's because none of those items
2012 9 were used when you tested screeners during on-the-job
201310 training?
201411 MR. ROSS: Objection to form. You're
201512 asking him to speculate as to why is that. You can ask
201613 him the direct question whether the objects were used,
201714 but he doesn't know why they are or are not on this
201815 form.
201916 BY MR. TOMASIK:
202017 Q. You can answer.
202118 A. What is the question again?
202219 Q. That is what we call a good objection in
202320 this business.
202421 Taking a look at this form, I think you told
202522 us that those restricted items aren't listed anywhere;
202623 is that right?
202724 A. Correct.
202825 Q. Did any supervisor from Huntleigh prior to
20290079
2030 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2031 2 9/11 ever come up to you and tell you to start testing
2032 3 and drilling screeners using box cutters, utility
2033 4 knives or mace?
2034 5 A. No.
2035 6 Q. Did anyone from United Airlines ever tell
2036 7 you that?
2037 8 A. Not that I can recall.
2038 9 Q. If anyone from Huntleigh told you to start
203910 testing and certifying screeners in regards to box
204011 cutters, mace, razor knives, menacing knives, you would
204112 have done that?
204213 A. Correct. Yes, I would have.
204314 Q. If you were given those objects, would you
204415 have incorporated them into your test?
204516 A. Yes.
204617 Q. Okay. Mr. Thomas, could you turn to the
204718 section of the COG, it's Section 5, "Screening Hand
204819 Carried Items," sir. I'll give you a page number here.
204920 MR. ROSS: It's 30345.
205021 Q. 30345. Do you see that, sir?
205122 A. Yes.
205223 Q. As of 9/11, and the screeners that you
205324 were supervising, if they believed that something might
205425 be a possible threat based on what they saw on the
20550080
2056 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2057 2 x-ray screen, what were they supposed to do?
2058 3 A. They were supposed to call the CSS and
2059 4 call a bag check.
2060 5 Q. Okay. If there was something that was an
2061 6 obvious threat, what were they supposed to do?
2062 7 A. Call a CSS.
2063 8 Q. And what was the CSS to do?
2064 9 A. Determine what the object was, find out
206510 who the person they were screening, and find the object
206611 in the bag. And if it's an obvious threat, call a LEO
206712 and document it.
206813 Q. And the reason why a bag search would be
206914 ordered is because a screener or supervisor like
207015 yourself could visualize with their own eyes and touch
207116 with their own hands the subject in question?
207217 A. Yes.
207318 Q. And do you agree when that sort of
207419 examination inspection is done, there is a greater
207520 likelihood of identifying a restricted item?
207621 A. Yes.
207722 Q. Prior to 9/11, or on 9/11, were there any
207823 inspections of carry-on bags that were being conducted
207924 randomly?
208025 A. Yes, there was.
20810081
2082 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2083 2 Q. How often?
2084 3 A. What do you mean, "how often"?
2085 4 Q. How often would a random -- I mean, and
2086 5 just so I can clarify, I'm talking about a search that
2087 6 would take place without any instruction or direction
2088 7 from an x-ray operator or a security supervisor.
2089 8 A. The bag checkers are supposed to check the
2090 9 bag, check every third bag.
209110 Q. Every third bag?
209211 A. Yes. Randomly.
209312 Q. We've been talking about restricted items
209413 here this morning, Mr. Thomas. I would just like to
209514 ask you a few more questions here, if I could.
209615 It was the responsibility of screeners and
209716 supervisors to make sure that prohibited items did not
209817 get through the checkpoint?
209918 A. Correct.
210019 MR. ROSS: Objection.
210120 Q. Right?
210221 A. Prohibited items, correct.
210322 Q. Weapons?
210423 A. Weapons.
210524 Q. Okay. And the reason for that is you knew
210625 that weapons, whether they were knives or mace, could
21070082
2108 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2109 2 be used to injure crew members or passengers?
2110 3 A. Correct.
2111 4 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
2112 5 A. Correct.
2113 6 Q. You would agree if a weapon like a box
2114 7 cutter or menacing knife got through the checkpoint, it
2115 8 would put a crew or passengers at risk?
2116 9 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
211710 A. It could.
211811 Q. And at no point were you ever instructed
211912 that it was okay if a few weapons got through the
212013 checkpoint, right?
212114 A. As to when?
212215 Q. Prior to 9/11.
212316 A. Instructions? No.
212417 Q. Meaning you were never taught that it was
212518 okay?
212619 A. No. I was never, no.
212720 Q. You were never taught that?
212821 A. That it was okay --
212922 Q. Right.
213023 A. -- for any weapons to get through?
213124 Q. Right?
213225 A. It depends on the size of the weapon and
21330083
2134 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2135 2 what the weapon was.
2136 3 Q. I'm talking about restricted and
2137 4 prohibited weapons.
2138 5 A. No.
2139 6 Q. The rule was no unauthorized weapons at
2140 7 any time. True?
2141 8 A. True.
2142 9 Q. I mean if somebody got a hand grenade
214310 through a checkpoint and rolled it into the cockpit of
214411 a plane, that would be a breach in aviation security?
214512 COUNSEL: Objection.
214613 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
214714 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
214815 THE WITNESS: Yes, it would.
214916 BY MR. TOMASIK:
215017 Q. I'm sorry?
215118 A. Yes, it would.
215219 Q. Do you agree that security screeners on
215320 9/11 were the first line of defense in regards to
215421 preventing hijackings?
215522 A. Yes.
215623 Q. Do you also agree that you are the last
215724 line of defense?
215825 MR. ROSS: Objection.
21590084
2160 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2161 2 COUNSEL: Objection to form.
2162 3 THE WITNESS: The last line?
2163 4 BY MR. TOMASIK:
2164 5 Q. I mean there is no more screening after
2165 6 the checkpoint, right?
2166 7 A. Prior to 9/11, no.
2167 8 Q. Okay. New subject, Mr. Thomas. We'll
2168 9 shift gears here, okay?
216910 We talked earlier at the beginning of the
217011 deposition about security directives and information
217112 circulars. Do you remember that discussion?
217213 A. Yes.
217314 Q. I think you told me that you looked at
217415 some paperwork in regards to information circulars,
217516 security directive before your deposition?
217617 A. Okay. Yes.
217718 Q. If you could take a look at the COG that's
217819 in front of you and turn to Page 3-2 -- excuse me, 3-3
217920 and 3-4. Do you see section "Supervisors, Category X
218021 Airports"?
218122 A. Yes.
218223 Q. You understood that Logan was a Category X
218324 airport?
218425 A. Yes.
21850085
2186 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2187 2 Q. Did you understand as of 9/11 that there
2188 3 was a certain threat level in place? Alert level?
2189 4 A. Yes.
2190 5 Q. Do you remember what that alert level was?
2191 6 A. No, I don't.
2192 7 Q. If you would turn to Section 3 point -- or
2193 8 3-4 on the next page, do you see the portion entitled,
2194 9 "Screener Briefing"?
219510 A. Yes.
219611 Q. It states all -- are all screeners aware
219712 of current security directives and information
219813 circulars. Do you see that?
219914 A. Yes, I do.
220015 Q. As a CSS, was it your responsibility to
220116 make sure that the screeners working at your checkpoint
220217 were briefed on information circulars and security
220318 directives?
220419 A. No, it wasn't my responsibility. It was
220520 briefed.
220621 Q. Whose responsibility at Huntleigh was it?
220722 A. It was the duty manager. The guy -- the
220823 duty manager's responsibility.
220924 Q. Okay. And you may have told us already.
221025 Who would that have been at Huntleigh --
22110086
2212 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2213 2 A. Francesco.
2214 3 Q. -- as of 9/11?
2215 4 A. Francesco.
2216 5 Q. And you don't recall his last name?
2217 6 A. No. I don't.
2218 7 Q. We'll be talking about the morning of 9/11
2219 8 in a few moments, but let me ask you this: On the
2220 9 morning of 9/11, did you have a security briefing?
222110 A. Not that I can recall.
222211 Q. In the week preceding 9/11, did you have a
222312 security briefing?
222413 A. Not that I can recall.
222514 Q. And when you say that, does that mean you
222615 don't recall being briefed?
222716 A. I don't remember the day in question.
222817 Q. Where were information circulars and
222918 security directives maintained at Logan?
223019 A. I don't know.
223120 Q. Did you ever see one?
223221 A. I've seen one. But they pass it -- pass
223322 it out to me.
223423 Q. And where were you when they passed it out
223524 to you?
223625 A. I was at the checkpoint.
22370087
2238 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2239 2 Q. What did that information -- what did that
2240 3 piece of paper have to do with? What was the subject?
2241 4 A. It had to do with looking out for certain
2242 5 weapons that passengers could carry in their wallets.
2243 6 Q. Do you remember what type of weapons?
2244 7 A. It was a credit card with a knife inside.
2245 8 It's a small credit card and it had a knife that went
2246 9 inside that you couldn't detect on the x-ray machine.
224710 It wouldn't detect through the magnetometer.
224811 Q. Do you know where at Huntleigh information
224912 circulars and security directives were maintained?
225013 A. Sometimes they're put on the wall -- in
225114 Huntleigh or at the checkpoint?
225215 Q. Well, I assume Huntleigh had an office at
225316 Logan?
225417 MR. ROSS: Objection, form. I don't know
225518 if you -- if you don't know our office at the time was
225619 off site.
225720 MR. TOMASIK: That's fine.
225821 MR. ROSS: So --
225922 BY MR. TOMASIK:
226023 Q. Okay. Did Huntleigh have an office at
226124 Logan where managers and screeners could meet preshift?
226225 MR. ROSS: Before 9/11?
22630088
2264 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2265 2 Q. Before 9/11.
2266 3 A. No.
2267 4 Q. Was there a place at Logan that you were
2268 5 aware of where Huntleigh made all current information
2269 6 circulars and security directives available to
2270 7 supervisors or employees?
2271 8 A. All current? Not that I know of, no.
2272 9 Q. Was there a place, current or not current,
227310 where you could go to as a checkpoint security
227411 supervisor and review information circulars and
227512 security directives?
227613 A. No.
227714 Q. Other than the one you told me that you
227815 looked at, were there any others that you were ever
227916 shown prior to 9/11?
228017 A. Pen gun. It was a pen gun.
228118 Q. Pen gun? Any others?
228219 A. That's it, that I can remember.
228320 (Discussion off the record.)
228421 BY MR. TOMASIK:
228522 Q. I'm going to show you, sir, what has been
228623 marked as Exhibit 13 in this litigation, which is a
228724 information circular dated October 8th, 1998,
228825 expiration, indefinite. Do you see that? The date on
22890089
2290 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2291 2 the top?
2292 3 A. Yes. Yes.
2293 4 Q. Have you ever seen this information
2294 5 circular before?
2295 6 A. Not that I can recall.
2296 7 Q. Did you ever see it while you were at
2297 8 Argenbright?
2298 9 A. Not that I can recall.
229910 Q. If we go to the second page, there is a
230011 comment. And the comment reads, "The U.S. Government
230112 continues to take very seriously all threats related to
230213 the bin Laden terrorist network. FAA continues to
230314 recommend that all Civil Aviation Security personnel
230415 continue to demonstrate a high degree of alertness."
230516 Do you see that?
230617 A. Yes. I do.
230718 Q. On or before 9/11, did anyone at Huntleigh
230819 tell you that you were to demonstrate a high degree of
230920 alertness?
231021 A. Not that I can recall.
231122 Q. Taking a look at this page, under the
231223 information section, it states, "There is continuing
231324 concern that Osama bin Laden and terrorist groups
231425 comprising the bin Laden terrorist network are
23150090
2316 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2317 2 preparing to conduct further terrorist attacks against
2318 3 U.S. interests, which could include U.S. civil
2319 4 aviation."
2320 5 Do you see that under the information
2321 6 section?
2322 7 You know what, sir? I didn't direct you
2323 8 back to the first page. So --
2324 9 A. Okay.
232510 Q. -- that was my fault. I'll just read that
232611 to you again so we get a clean question, okay?
232712 Under the information section?
232813 A. Yes.
232914 Q. It states, "There is a continuing concern
233015 that Osama bin Laden and terrorist groups comprising
233116 the bin Laden terrorist network are preparing to
233217 conduct further terrorist attacks against U.S.
233318 interests, which could include U.S. civil aviation."
233419 Do you see that?
233520 A. Yes.
233621 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
233722 BY MR. TOMASIK:
233823 Q. Did anyone from Huntleigh ever advise you
233924 of that prior to 9/11?
234025 A. Not that I can recall.
23410091
2342 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2343 2 Q. Did anyone from United Airlines ever
2344 3 advise you of that prior to 9/11?
2345 4 A. I can't remember.
2346 5 Q. Well, here, let me ask you this: Would
2347 6 you agree that 9/11 when Flight 175 crashed into the
2348 7 World Trade Center that that's a moment in your life
2349 8 you'll never forget?
2350 9 A. Yes.
235110 Q. You were obviously on duty the morning of
235211 9/11. You were aware that passengers of that plane
235312 came through your checkpoint?
235413 A. Part of the morning, yes.
235514 Q. 9/11 at Logan, compared to other days, was
235615 a very memorable day for you?
235716 A. Yes.
235817 Q. Soon after 9/11, you heard the name Osama
235918 bin Laden on the news and other places?
236019 A. Yes. Yes.
236120 Q. Prior to that point in time, had you ever
236221 heard of Osama bin Laden before?
236322 A. Not that I can recall.
236423 Q. And prior to that time, have you ever
236524 heard of Al-Qaeda before?
236625 A. No.
23670092
2368 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2369 2 Q. If we go to the information section, that
2370 3 second paragraph, the last sentence states, "Based on
2371 4 comments made by bin Laden, and those claiming
2372 5 affiliation with the Saudi terrorist financier, these
2373 6 attacks could possibly include the hijacking or
2374 7 destruction of a U.S. aircraft." Do you see that?
2375 8 A. Yes.
2376 9 Q. Did you ever see that prior to 9/11?
237710 A. Not that I can recall.
237811 Q. Did anyone ever tell that you?
237912 A. Not that I can recall.
238013 Q. From Huntleigh, did anyone ever tell you
238114 that?
238215 A. Not that I can recall, no.
238316 Q. Well, you told us a few moments ago about
238417 when you first heard the name Osama bin Laden after the
238518 attacks. Do you recall that?
238619 A. After the what? After the attacks?
238720 Q. Yes.
238821 A. Yes.
238922 Q. When you heard that name, on the news or
239023 wherever, did you ever have a thought in your head, oh,
239124 that was the terrorist we were hearing about at work?
239225 Did you ever connect that in your brain?
23930093
2394 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2395 2 A. Well, when I heard the name, that is what
2396 3 was connected to the name, him being a terrorist.
2397 4 Q. Okay. But it was -- my question is,
2398 5 though, after the attacks occurred and you heard the
2399 6 name Osama bin Laden, did you recall being told by
2400 7 people at Huntleigh or United that he was a potential
2401 8 threat to civil aviation?
2402 9 A. Not that I can recall, no.
240310 Q. And given what occurred on 9/11, do you
240411 think that's something you would have remembered,
240512 seeing his name in information circulars or hearing it
240613 from your supervisors?
240714 MR. ROSS: Objection, form.
240815 Q. You can answer.
240916 A. Not that I can recall.
241017 Q. Do you think that was something you would
241118 have remembered when you first heard it?
241219 MR. ROSS: Same objection.
241320 A. I can't recall.
241421 Q. Well, as you sit here today, it's true
241522 that prior to 9/11 you have absolutely no recollection
241623 of ever hearing about a threat from Al-Qaeda or Osama
241724 bin Laden?
241825 A. Correct.
24190094
2420 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2421 2 (Discussion off the record.)
2422 3 BY MR. TOMASIK:
2423 4 Q. I would like to show you what has been
2424 5 marked as Exhibit 168 for identification. If you can
2425 6 turn, there is a Slide 24, which is on the numbers that
2426 7 end in 551, I believe.
2427 8 COUNSEL: Can you give us an exhibit
2428 9 number?
242910 MR. TOMASIK: It's 168. For the record,
243011 I'm showing the witness what has been marked as
243112 Exhibit 168, which has been produced to us. It's an
243213 FAA CD-ROM from 2001. Are you at that page, sir?
243314 A. Yes. I am.
243415 Q. The last paragraph of Slide 24 states that
243516 "While FAA considers a suicide bombing of a U.S.
243617 airliner to be a low probability, a nonsuicide bombing
243718 continues to be a major concern. For example,
243819 convicted members of the Manila plot to bomb U.S.
243920 airlines in Asia had links to bin Laden, and members of
244021 that bombing conspiracy are still at large. Also,
244122 statements attributed to bin Laden following the U.S.
244223 missile attack on his camps specifically threaten to
244324 bring down and hijack U.S. and Israeli aircraft."
244425 Do you see that, sir?
24450095
2446 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2447 2 A. Yes, I do.
2448 3 Q. Prior to 9/11, were you ever made aware of
2449 4 a plot by Al-Qaeda to blow up a dozen or so commercial
2450 5 aircraft over the Pacific Ocean?
2451 6 MR. ROSS: Objection.
2452 7 A. Not that I can recall.
2453 8 Q. Was that information you would have liked
2454 9 to have known?
245510 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
245611 A. Yes.
245712 Q. Do you think if you had that information,
245813 it would have helped you in doing a better job?
245914 MR. ROSS: Objection.
246015 COUNSEL: Objection.
246116 MR. CURCIO: Objection.
246217 THE WITNESS: Yes.
246318 BY MR. TOMASIK:
246419 Q. It would be accurate to say as of 9/11,
246520 nobody from Huntleigh gave you any special instructions
246621 to be on the lookout for Middle Eastern terrorists?
246722 A. Middle Eastern terrorists? No.
246823 Q. No, they didn't give you that instruction?
246924 A. No. They didn't give me that instruction,
247025 no.
24710096
2472 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2473 2 Q. It would be accurate to say on or before
2474 3 9/11, nobody from United Airlines gave you special
2475 4 instructions to be on the lookout for Middle Eastern
2476 5 terrorists?
2477 6 A. Not that I can recall, no.
2478 7 Q. Okay. I apologize for the delay,
2479 8 Mr. Thomas. This is what happens when lawyers ask for
2480 9 10,000 pieces of paper.
248110 (Discussion off the record.)
248211 BY MR. TOMASIK:
248312 Q. I'd like to show you what has previously
248413 been marked as Exhibit 214 and ask you to take a look
248514 at the last page of that exhibit.
248615 MR. ROSS: Can you ask first what it is
248716 and then --
248817 MR. TOMASIK: Yes. I'll lay a foundation
248918 here.
249019 BY MR. TOMASIK:
249120 Q. Sir, I've handed you minutes from a
249221 Massport Security Consortium meeting. You'll see that
249322 United Airlines was present. Do you see that? No. 25?
249423 MR. ROSS: First page?
249524 Q. First page.
249625 A. Yes.
24970097
2498 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2499 2 Q. You see No. 15, International Total
2500 3 Services? Do you see that?
2501 4 A. Yes.
2502 5 Q. Do you know who that is?
2503 6 A. No. I don't.
2504 7 Q. Okay. If I turn to Page 4, there is a
2505 8 note regarding some comments made by an FBI Special
2506 9 Agent who had responsibility to monitor potential
250710 terrorism in this area. I want to talk to you about
250811 that, okay?
250912 A. Okay.
251013 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
251114 Q. He suggested at this meeting that
251215 complacency about airport security exists because
251316 nothing has happened in a while. He stated that he
251417 knows of no immediate specific threat, but he mentioned
251518 the bin Laden terrorists in the Middle East who have
251619 made threats against the United States and that it's
251720 only a matter of time before a terrorist attack. Do
251821 you see that? Paragraph 4?
251922 A. Yes. I see it.
252023 Q. Did anybody from Huntleigh share those
252124 concerns with you at Logan prior to 9/11?
252225 MR. ROSS: Objection to form --
25230098
2524 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2525 2 COUNSEL: Objection.
2526 3 MR. ROSS: -- since Huntleigh wasn't
2527 4 around Logan in 1999.
2528 5 MR. TOMASIK: Thank you. I'll fix it.
2529 6 BY MR. TOMASIK:
2530 7 Q. Did anybody -- well, I'm going to stand on
2531 8 that question. Did anyone from Huntleigh ever bring
2532 9 this information to your attention?
253310 MR. ROSS: Objection.
253411 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
253512 THE WITNESS: No.
253613 BY MR. TOMASIK:
253714 Q. Did anybody from United Airlines ever
253815 bring this information to your attention?
253916 MR. ROSS: Objection.
254017 MR. CONNORS: Same objection.
254118 THE WITNESS: No.
254219 BY MR. TOMASIK:
254320 Q. Is it information you would have liked to
254421 have known?
254522 A. Yes. Sure. Why not?
254623 Q. Would it help you to do a better job?
254724 MR. ROSS: Objection.
254825 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
25490099
2550 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2551 2 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
2552 3 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't say that.
2553 4 BY MR. TOMASIK:
2554 5 Q. It goes on to state that it was his belief
2555 6 they targeted the embassies to bomb because of their
2556 7 easily compromised security. That airports have had
2557 8 the perception of very tight security. Ted stated he
2558 9 found for himself this is not true. He was able to
255910 walk unchallenged into one of Logan's gate areas. He
256011 suggested it's in everyone's best interested to harden
256112 security.
256213 Do you see that?
256314 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
256415 A. Yes.
256516 Q. Do you recall any efforts in the months
256617 prior to 9/11, while you were working for Huntleigh,
256718 whether any efforts made to harden security?
256819 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
256920 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
257021 THE WITNESS: Not that I can recall, no.
257122 BY MR. TOMASIK:
257223 Q. Do you recall any increased security
257324 procedures being implemented other than what you were
257425 already doing when you started?
25750100
2576 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2577 2 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
2578 3 A. No.
2579 4 Q. The procedures that were being done on the
2580 5 front line for Huntleigh at Logan were the same in
2581 6 September as they were in May?
2582 7 MR. ROSS: I don't know that he was on the
2583 8 front line in May, so --
2584 9 Q. In June?
258510 MR. ROSS: Why don't you just say whenever
258611 he started or something like that?
258712 MR. TOMASIK: That is fair.
258813 BY MR. TOMASIK:
258914 Q. You were working the security checkpoint
259015 at Logan in June, '01, correct?
259116 A. Correct.
259217 Q. And the procedures that Huntleigh was
259318 employing in June, 2001, were the same procedures that
259419 were being employed in September, 2001?
259520 A. Prior to 9/11, yes.
259621 Q. Yes. Nothing changed?
259722 A. Nothing that I can recall, no.
259823 Q. Okay. It would be accurate to say, sir,
259924 that at no time prior to 9/11 did anyone from Huntleigh
260025 instruct you to increase the number of pat-down
26010101
2602 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2603 2 searches?
2604 3 A. No.
2605 4 Q. No, they didn't do that?
2606 5 A. No. They didn't.
2607 6 Q. It would be accurate to say that at any
2608 7 time prior to 9/11, nobody from Huntleigh instructed
2609 8 you to increase the number of physical searches of
2610 9 carry-on baggage?
261110 A. Yes.
261211 MR. ROSS: Wait a minute. Yes, that would
261312 be accurate, or, yes, they did instruct?
261413 THE WITNESS: Yes. They did instruct.
261514 BY MR. TOMASIK:
261615 Q. Who instructed you to increase the number
261716 of bag searches?
261817 A. Francesco.
261918 Q. When?
262019 A. When? I can't recall exactly when.
262120 Q. And how many were you doing before the
262221 instruction and how many did you do after the
262322 instruction?
262423 A. Before the instruction, I was -- you're
262524 talking about bag search, right?
262625 Q. Right.
26270102
2628 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2629 2 A. I was instructed to do three bag
2630 3 searches -- every third bag that comes to the machine,
2631 4 check the bag. But when they instructed me, they said
2632 5 check as often as you can.
2633 6 Q. Okay. And was that in June, July, or
2634 7 August?
2635 8 A. I can't recall the date.
2636 9 Q. Is it true, Mr. Thomas, that at no time
263710 prior to 9/11 were you instructed to increase the
263811 number of passengers who were hand wanded, randomly?
263912 A. It's not true.
264013 Q. Wasn't it true that a passenger would only
264114 be hand wanded if the magnetometer alarmed?
264215 A. Yes. It was.
264316 Q. So, in other words, the passenger would
264417 never be hand wanded unless the magnetometer alarmed?
264518 A. Correct.
264619 Q. I would like to show you what has
264720 previously been marked in this litigation as --
264821 MR. ROSS: I'm getting a call from our
264922 1 o'clock witness.
265023 MR. TOMASIK: That's fine.
265124 MR. ROSS: I better take that.
265225 MR. TOMASIK: Why don't you take that.
26530103
2654 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2655 2 I'll get organized. I think we took a ten-minute break
2656 3 before, but I haven't got much left.
2657 4 MR. ROSS: Yes. I wouldn't be calling for
2658 5 a break, but he's called twice in the last ten minutes.
2659 6 All I need is another problem.
2660 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here marks the end of
2661 8 Tape No. 1 in the deposition of William Thomas. Going
2662 9 off the record. The time is 11:05.
266310 (A recess was taken.)
266411 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record.
266512 Here marks the beginning of Tape No. 2 in the
266613 deposition of William Thomas. The time is one 1:16.
266714 BY MR. TOMASIK:
266815 Q. Thank you. Mr. Thomas, you were obviously
266916 employed as of June 22nd, 2001. True?
267017 A. True.
267118 Q. Do you know who Richard Sporn is? Does
267219 that name ring a bell with you?
267320 A. No, it doesn't.
267421 Q. I'm going to show you what has been marked
267522 previously as Exhibit 91 in this case. It's a security
267623 memorandum dated June 22nd, 2001, Huntleigh, USA, to
267724 all security preboard screeners and managers. Do you
267825 see that?
26790104
2680 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2681 2 A. Yes, I do.
2682 3 Q. It states, "During a meeting with the FAA
2683 4 in the air carrier concerning the task, the FAA said
2684 5 that they were trying to get the screener to resolve
2685 6 the alarm. In other words, we must not let the
2686 7 passenger in the sterile area until all alarms are
2687 8 resolved."
2688 9 Do you recall this memorandum?
268910 A. No. I don't.
269011 Q. Was it ever shown to you?
269112 A. Not that I can recall.
269213 Q. Was it ever posted anywhere?
269314 A. Not that I can recall.
269415 Q. A few moments ago, you stated that you
269516 were instructed to increase the number of bag searches
269617 prior to 9/11. Do you remember that?
269718 A. Yes.
269819 Q. Were there any other measures you were
269920 instructed to increase other than that one, sir?
270021 A. Not that I can recall.
270122 Q. That particular instruction to increase
270223 the number of bag searches, was that in a written
270324 memorandum?
270425 A. No.
27050105
2706 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2707 2 Q. You can point to no written memorandum
2708 3 from the summer of 2001 instructing you to increase the
2709 4 number of hand searches?
2710 5 A. Correct.
2711 6 Q. And it's also true that at no time prior
2712 7 to 9/11 were you instructed to increase the number of
2713 8 pat-down searches. True?
2714 9 A. True.
271510 Q. In order to pat down random passengers,
271611 that requires a screener to attend only to that
271712 passenger; is that right?
271813 A. Correct.
271914 Q. It requires that passenger to be pulled
272015 out of line. True? To be pulled out of the line going
272116 through security?
272217 A. The flow, yes.
272318 Q. It requires your oversight as a CSS?
272419 A. Yes.
272520 Q. Would you agree that increasing the number
272621 of pat-down searches slows down security?
272722 A. Yes, it does.
272823 Q. Would you agree that increasing the number
272924 of searches of carry-on baggage slows down security
273025 procedures?
27310106
2732 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2733 2 A. Yes, it does.
2734 3 Q. And would you agree that increasing the
2735 4 number of passengers that are hand wanded slows down
2736 5 security screening?
2737 6 A. Yes.
2738 7 Q. Do you think it's more difficult to
2739 8 implement those procedures when you have new employees
2740 9 versus experienced employees?
274110 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
274211 Q. You can answer.
274312 A. I wouldn't say difficult. It just takes a
274413 little bit more time.
274514 Q. A little more time with new screeners on
274615 line?
274716 A. Yes.
274817 Q. Do you agree that the security screening
274918 system that was in place as of 9/11 was designed for
275019 speed and efficiency?
275120 A. No.
275221 Q. And why is that?
275322 A. Well, security, you have to take the time
275423 to do it right.
275524 Q. Do you agree that the security procedures
275625 that are in place now take more time than they did
27570107
2758 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2759 2 prior to 9/11?
2760 3 A. No.
2761 4 Q. We had a discussion earlier today about
2762 5 various knives and weapons. Do you recall that?
2763 6 A. Yes.
2764 7 Q. I've put before you during the break what
2765 8 has been marked as Exhibit 128. Could you take a look
2766 9 at that?
276710 MR. ROSS: Do you have one?
276811 MR. TOMASIK: You know what, I don't.
276912 This is the Airline Security Screener Training
277013 Instructor's Guide produced to us by Huntleigh. Do you
277114 recognize it, sir?
277215 A. No. I don't.
277316 Q. Okay. If you could just turn to
277417 Page 1073. If you could just flip back two more pages,
277518 is there an attachment, "Prohibited Items in the
277619 Checkpoint and the Sterile Area." Do you see that?
277720 MR. ROSS: One more.
277821 MR. TOMASIK: Flip back one more?
277922 THE WITNESS: Yes.
278023 BY MR. TOMASIK:
278124 Q. And I think we can generally agree that is
278225 about the same list that we saw in the COG? Does that
27830108
2784 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2785 2 look right to you?
2786 3 A. Yes. Generally, yes.
2787 4 Q. Okay. If we turn back to Page 1073, do
2788 5 you see those knives that are listed?
2789 6 A. Yes, I do.
2790 7 Q. Those all appear to you to be prohibited
2791 8 items?
2792 9 A. Obvious threats, yes.
279310 Q. Do you see in those pictures certain
279411 knives with serrated edges?
279512 A. No.
279613 Q. Okay. On the next page, do you see a box
279714 cutter?
279815 A. It looks like a box cutter.
279916 Q. Okay. It says box cutter above it,
280017 doesn't it?
280118 A. Yes.
280219 Q. Okay. You'd agree that was a prohibited
280320 item?
280421 A. This one? No.
280522 Q. You would agree with me it's in the
280623 section of the training materials that speaks to
280724 prohibited items at the checkpoint?
280825 A. Yes.
28090109
2810 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2811 2 Q. Okay. Taking a look at this particular
2812 3 item, isn't it true that students -- or screeners who
2813 4 were being instructed at Huntleigh would be instructed
2814 5 that box cutters such as this were restricted?
2815 6 A. According to the COG, yes.
2816 7 Q. Okay. I would like to show you what has
2817 8 been marked as Exhibit 20 for identification in this
2818 9 case. I'll hand that to you, sir. Does that appear to
281910 be a box cutter?
282011 A. Yes.
282112 Q. You would agree that that is a -- that as
282213 of 9/11, that was a restricted item?
282314 A. Yes.
282415 Q. I would like to show you what has
282516 previously been marked as Exhibit 25. Do you see that
282617 knife, sir?
282718 A. Yes.
282819 Q. Do you see the serrated edges?
282920 A. Yes.
283021 Q. Do you agree that that knife having
283122 serrated edges would be considered menacing?
283223 A. According to the COG, yes.
283324 Q. That would be a restricted item?
283425 A. Yes.
28350110
2836 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2837 2 Q. You would confiscate it at a checkpoint as
2838 3 of 9/11?
2839 4 A. Yes.
2840 5 Q. And that's true regardless of the blade
2841 6 length because of the serrated edge?
2842 7 A. Yes.
2843 8 Q. I'd like to show you what has been marked
2844 9 as Exhibit 34 in this case, which is a Leatherman wave
284510 tool. Have you ever seen one of those before, sir?
284611 A. Yes.
284712 Q. The particular blade that has been locked,
284813 that's a serrated blade?
284914 A. Yes.
285015 Q. It's menacing?
285116 A. Yes.
285217 Q. According to the COG, it's restricted?
285318 A. Yes.
285419 Q. As of 9/11, that would be something you
285520 would instruct screeners working beneath you to
285621 confiscate?
285722 A. From passengers, yes.
285823 Q. Yes. I'd like to show you what has
285924 previously been marked as Exhibit 21 for
286025 identification. Do you recall our discussion earlier
28610111
2862 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2863 2 regarding razors?
2864 3 A. Yes.
2865 4 Q. That particular item has a razor?
2866 5 A. Correct.
2867 6 Q. Razors are restricted by the COG? Yes?
2868 7 A. Yes.
2869 8 Q. As of 9/11, if a passenger were going
2870 9 through the checkpoint with that particular item, you
287110 would direct screeners to confiscate it?
287211 A. Confiscate the razors.
287312 Q. Confiscate the razors?
287413 A. The razors.
287514 Q. Yes. And that would be consistent with
287615 procedures?
287716 A. Yes.
287817 Q. And that would prevent a breach in
287918 security?
288019 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
288120 A. I wouldn't say it would prevent a breach.
288221 We would just confiscate the razors.
288322 Q. And you would do that because it's a
288423 dangerous object that should not be let past the
288524 checkpoint?
288625 A. Correct.
28870112
2888 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2889 2 Q. Okay. And it if were let past the
2890 3 checkpoint, that would constitute a breach?
2891 4 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
2892 5 COUNSEL: Objection to form.
2893 6 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't say it would
2894 7 constitute a breach if we can detect it.
2895 8 BY MR. TOMASIK:
2896 9 Q. Now, you would agree that that particular
289710 item -- first, if you could take a look at the exhibit
289811 that is closer to you.
289912 A. Mm-hmm.
290013 Q. That is an item that would commonly be
290114 detectable on x-ray?
290215 A. On x-ray? Maybe.
290316 Q. And the item to your right, that is an
290417 item that would be detected on x-ray?
290518 A. Yes.
290619 Q. You certainly would agree that should set
290720 off the magnetometer?
290821 COUNSEL: Can we have the exhibit number?
290922 MR. FREIRE: Yeah. Excuse me.
291023 BY MR. TOMASIK:
291124 Q. The Leatherman tool, if you could just
291225 tell us the --
29130113
2914 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2915 2 MR. ROSS: No, no, no.
2916 3 Q. -- exhibit number?
2917 4 MR. ROSS: The Leatherman tool is
2918 5 Exhibit 34.
2919 6 MR. TOMASIK: I was asking the witness.
2920 7 BY MR. TOMASIK:
2921 8 Q. Mr. Thomas, can you just tell us the
2922 9 exhibit number on the Leatherman?
292310 A. Exhibit No. 34.
292411 Q. Okay. That is an item that you would
292512 agree would normally activate the magnetometer?
292613 A. Yes.
292714 Q. And certainly it would be detectable by
292815 hand wand?
292916 A. Yes.
293017 Q. Okay. Mr. Thomas, I'd like to talk to you
293118 about the morning of September 11th. According to the
293219 sign-in sheet, I believe you did, in fact, sign in
293320 around 5 a.m.?
293421 A. Yes.
293522 Q. Where did you sign in?
293623 A. At the checkpoint.
293724 Q. Where was the sign-in sheet maintained?
293825 A. At the checkpoint.
29390114
2940 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2941 2 Q. I mean can you just tell me where at the
2942 3 checkpoint?
2943 4 A. There is a podium at the checkpoint that
2944 5 we have that most CSSes stand at when they're
2945 6 conducting their business, and the sign-in sheet is
2946 7 right at the podium.
2947 8 Q. And is there a cabinet or locked door or
2948 9 something as part of that podium?
294910 A. Yes.
295011 Q. What was maintained inside the podium?
295112 A. It had a couple of -- some binders of how
295213 to run the checkpoint. It had sign-in sheets. You had
295314 testing equipment -- stuff, testing equipment there.
295415 Peoples' coats.
295516 Q. Did you ever see any information circulars
295617 or security directives in that podium?
295718 A. Not that I can recall.
295819 Q. Okay. But you do recall manuals. Would
295920 that include -- any specific manuals that you can
296021 recall?
296122 A. OJT manuals.
296223 Q. OJT? What else?
296324 A. Bag check manuals.
296425 Q. Bag check. Okay.
29650115
2966 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2967 2 A. Screening positions.
2968 3 Q. Okay. Any other manuals that you can
2969 4 think of?
2970 5 A. Not that I can think of.
2971 6 Q. Did the bag check manual have a name?
2972 7 A. It had "Continuous Bag Check."
2973 8 Q. Is that what it was called?
2974 9 A. (Witness nodded.)
297510 Q. Any other manuals that you can think of?
297611 A. Just a screening positions.
297712 Q. Okay. Was that called something? Did
297813 that have a name or title?
297914 A. I can't remember by name.
298015 Q. Okay. Was there a COG in the podium?
298116 A. Yes. There was.
298217 Q. Okay. When you -- we've learned a little
298318 bit about Terminal C in this case, but can you just
298419 give us an overview of where the security checkpoints
298520 are for Terminal C?
298621 A. There is one in Delta. There is one in
298722 United, TWA. TWA is not there no more.
298823 Q. How many checkpoints were there?
298924 A. Three.
299025 Q. And were you assigned to a particular
29910116
2992 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
2993 2 checkpoint that day?
2994 3 A. Yes.
2995 4 Q. What checkpoint were you assigned to?
2996 5 A. I was assigned to United's checkpoint.
2997 6 Q. I'm sorry?
2998 7 A. United's checkpoint.
2999 8 Q. Okay. And did that checkpoint have a
3000 9 number?
300110 A. 1121.
300211 Q. Okay. What supervisor was on duty when
300312 you arrived?
300413 MR. ROSS: I'm sorry. Objection to form.
300514 What do you mean by supervisor?
300615 MR. TOMASIK: I'll ask a clarifying
300716 question.
300817 BY MR. TOMASIK:
300918 Q. You told us you arrived at work about
301019 5 a.m.?
301120 A. Yes.
301221 Q. Was there a manager, supervisor, somebody
301322 above you there?
301423 A. Francesco was there.
301524 Q. Okay. Did you have a conversation with
301625 him? Who else was assigned to your checkpoint that
30170117
3018 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3019 2 morning, that you recall?
3020 3 A. That morning? Just regular PBSes.
3021 4 Q. Do you recall their names?
3022 5 A. I can't recall all of them.
3023 6 Q. Do you recall any of them?
3024 7 A. Yes.
3025 8 Q. Who do you recall?
3026 9 A. Mohamed Osman, Chris Fernandez,
302710 Mark Santa, Kathleen Malerba. That's all I can recall.
302811 Q. How would you describe Mohamed's English
302912 skills?
303013 A. His was good.
303114 Q. How would you -- you know, we talked
303215 earlier about the importance of communication in the
303316 workplace. Were there any screeners that you were
303417 working with that you had difficulty communicating
303518 with?
303619 A. There was a few.
303720 Q. Who, from that day?
303821 A. I can't think of his name.
303922 Q. By few, you mean two to three?
304023 A. Yes. A couple, yes.
304124 MR. ROSS: Well, he was saying a few in
304225 general, then you made it specific to that day.
30430118
3044 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3045 2 A. In general.
3046 3 MR. ROSS: So, what are you asking?
3047 4 Q. I understood your answer, and correct me
3048 5 if I'm wrong, but there were a few the morning of 9/11
3049 6 who you had difficulty communicating with?
3050 7 A. Yes. I couldn't understand them. Their
3051 8 English was limited.
3052 9 Q. Okay. Their English was limited?
305310 A. But I could communicate with them.
305411 Q. Were they new trainees or veteran
305512 screeners?
305613 A. They were veteran screeners.
305714 Q. Did you see Jennifer Gore when you checked
305815 in that morning?
305916 A. Yes.
306017 Q. Where did you see her?
306118 A. Standing at the checkpoint at the podium
306219 with everybody else.
306320 Q. Did you have a conversation with her?
306421 A. Not that I can recall.
306522 Q. Where was she assigned that morning?
306623 A. CSS.
306724 Q. What checkpoint?
306825 A. Eleven to 21, United.
30690119
3070 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3071 2 Q. And were you acting as a CSS that day?
3072 3 A. Yes.
3073 4 Q. What time did the checkpoint open?
3074 5 A. Six o'clock.
3075 6 Q. And do you recall who was working the
3076 7 x-ray machine as of the time it opened?
3077 8 A. I can't recall.
3078 9 Q. Do you recall who was working the
307910 magnetometer or hand wand, bags or anything like that?
308011 A. No. I can't recall that.
308112 Q. What time was the first flight out that
308213 morning?
308314 A. I'd say quarter past 6, maybe.
308415 Q. Just so I have a reference in time, when
308516 did you learn about any plane crashing into the World
308617 Trade Center? Approximately what time?
308718 A. It was after 8 o'clock.
308819 Q. When did you learn that United Flight 175
308920 crashed into the Trade Center?
309021 A. After 8 o'clock.
309122 Q. Between the time you got to the checkpoint
309223 and the time you learned of any planes crashing into
309324 the World Trade Center, did you take any breaks?
309425 A. No. I didn't.
30950120
3096 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3097 2 Q. You were at the checkpoint up until the
3098 3 time you learned about 11 and 175 strike the towers?
3099 4 A. No, I wasn't.
3100 5 Q. Okay. Just so we can move this along here
3101 6 today, can you tell us at what point in time you left
3102 7 the checkpoint?
3103 8 A. I left the checkpoint between 6:30 and 7.
3104 9 Q. Where did you go at that time?
310510 A. My duty manager instructed me to go find
310611 wheelchairs.
310712 Q. I think you may have told us already, but
310813 who was your duty manager that day?
310914 A. Francesco.
311015 Q. And did you do that?
311116 A. Yes, I did.
311217 Q. How long did that take?
311318 A. It took a couple of hours.
311419 Q. To find wheelchairs?
311520 A. The whole airport.
311621 Q. Did you return -- what time did you return
311722 to the checkpoint?
311823 A. Probably 8:30. I would say 8:30,
311924 9 o'clock.
312025 Q. Did you bring wheelchairs to the
31210121
3122 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3123 2 checkpoint or did you take them somewhere else?
3124 3 A. I didn't find any, no.
3125 4 Q. When you left the checkpoint, was there a
3126 5 CSS on duty?
3127 6 A. Yes. There was.
3128 7 Q. Who was that?
3129 8 A. Jennifer.
3130 9 Q. When you returned to the checkpoint, where
313110 did you go? What did you do?
313211 A. When I returned to the checkpoint, I went
313312 to the CSS. And I just -- I just stood there.
313413 Q. With Jennifer Gore?
313514 A. With Jennifer Gore and all the other
313615 PBSes.
313716 Q. And this was prior to you learning about
313817 any planes flying into the World Trade Center?
313918 A. No. This was after learning about the
314019 planes flying into the World Trade Center.
314120 Q. Okay. Could you tell us where you were
314221 precisely when you learned?
314322 A. I was at American Airlines.
314423 Q. Where at American Airlines?
314524 A. At the checkpoint.
314625 Q. Why were you at that checkpoint?
31470122
3148 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3149 2 Wheelchairs?
3150 3 A. When I was coming from Terminal A looking
3151 4 for wheelchairs, I come through Terminal C -- or
3152 5 Terminal B. And American Airlines is in Terminal B,
3153 6 and I happened to see a lot of people standing around
3154 7 the TV.
3155 8 Then when I looked and I seen the World
3156 9 Trade Centers on fire, I -- at first, I didn't believe
315710 what I was seeing. Then I was like, wow. Told me and
315811 Mohamed, let's go back to the checkpoint because
315912 they're getting ready to close the airport.
316013 Q. You told who?
316114 A. Mohamed.
316215 Q. He was with you?
316316 A. Yes.
316417 Q. When you went back to the checkpoint, did
316518 you have a conversation with Jennifer Gore?
316619 A. Well, she was crying so I tried to console
316720 her.
316821 Q. What was she saying?
316922 A. She thought it was her fault.
317023 Q. And to the best of your recollection, can
317124 you tell us what she said to you and what you said to
317225 her?
31730123
3174 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3175 2 A. No. I can't remember what she said.
3176 3 Q. Well, you told us a moment ago that she
3177 4 said it was her fault.
3178 5 A. That is all I can remember.
3179 6 Q. Do you recall her saying anything else?
3180 7 A. No, I don't.
3181 8 Q. That morning prior to leaving the
3182 9 checkpoint to go look for wheelchairs, as a CSS can you
318310 tell us what, if anything, was confiscated from
318411 passengers?
318512 A. I confiscated -- I confiscated a couple of
318613 utility knives.
318714 Q. You did?
318815 A. Yes.
318916 Q. We looked at some exhibits here today, and
319017 there are some to the left of you, and is there any
319118 exhibit here that's substantially similar to the ones
319219 that you confiscated?
319320 A. This one here. (Indicating.)
319421 MR. ROSS: Can you identify it by exhibit
319522 number?
319623 A. Exhibit 21.
319724 Q. Exhibit 21?
319825 A. Yes.
31990124
3200 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3201 2 Q. And when you confiscated those, did you
3202 3 take the whole thing?
3203 4 A. No. I just took the blade.
3204 5 Q. Approximately what time that morning, to
3205 6 the best of your recollection, did you confiscate
3206 7 those?
3207 8 A. Between 6:30 and 7:30.
3208 9 Q. Okay. And as a checkpoint security
320910 supervisor, you were overseeing the other screeners
321011 prior to that item being identified?
321112 A. Yes.
321213 Q. How did it come to your attention that
321314 somebody at the checkpoint had a knife with a blade as
321415 the one you've just pointed out?
321516 A. It was divested. Sticking out of their
321617 pockets and put into the bucket and put through the
321718 x-ray.
321819 Q. You weren't there when it was divested,
321920 though; is that right?
322021 A. Yes. I was there.
322122 Q. Okay. So, somebody didn't bring it to
322223 your attention?
322324 A. Yes. They did.
322425 Q. A screener brought it to your attention?
32250125
3226 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3227 2 A. Yes. They did.
3228 3 Q. Okay. Did you see the passenger actually
3229 4 take it out of their pocket?
3230 5 A. No. I didn't.
3231 6 Q. Can you describe that passenger?
3232 7 A. No. I can't.
3233 8 Q. Male?
3234 9 A. I can't remember.
323510 Q. Average height?
323611 A. I don't remember.
323712 Q. You told us a moment ago that you
323813 confiscated two of those knives. Two different
323914 passengers?
324015 A. Yes.
324116 Q. The second knife that was identified and
324217 confiscated, how was it first identified?
324318 A. The same way. Divested.
324419 Q. And how many -- can you approximate for us
324520 the time that passed between the first knife was
324621 confiscated and the second knife?
324722 A. No. I couldn't approximate that, no.
324823 Q. Was it more than a couple of minutes?
324924 A. Yes. I would say.
325025 Q. It could have been 15, 20?
32510126
3252 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3253 2 A. Possibly.
3254 3 Q. Okay. Can you describe that passenger for
3255 4 us?
3256 5 A. I think it was a female. She had a wrap
3257 6 around her head.
3258 7 Q. What kind of wrap?
3259 8 A. A scarf.
3260 9 Q. Can you describe her height, age, race?
326110 A. I would think she was from -- she was a
326211 Muslim.
326312 Q. Okay. And that is because of the wrap?
326413 A. Yes.
326514 Q. And do you also base that on her skin and
326615 complexion being of Middle Eastern appearance?
326716 A. Yes.
326817 Q. Now, when you confiscated this second
326918 knife, was it your responsibility to log that into some
327019 sort of document?
327120 A. Yes. But it wasn't a knife.
327221 Q. I'm sorry. The --
327322 A. Utility knife.
327423 Q. And can you just show us again the one
327524 that it was similar to?
327625 A. Exhibit 21.
32770127
3278 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3279 2 Q. Okay. Twenty-one. Was it logged in?
3280 3 A. Yes. It was.
3281 4 Q. Who logged it?
3282 5 A. I did.
3283 6 Q. Did you have a conversation with the
3284 7 passenger?
3285 8 A. No.
3286 9 Q. In order to log in the knife that was
328710 confiscated, it was necessary, wasn't it, to write the
328811 passenger's name down?
328912 A. Yes.
329013 Q. Was it necessary to write the passenger's
329114 address down?
329215 A. No.
329316 Q. Where did you obtain the passenger's name?
329417 A. On the log that we have every day.
329518 Q. But --
329619 A. Daily log.
329720 Q. Oh, thank you. You put it in the daily
329821 log, but how did you learn her name?
329922 A. Her ticket.
330023 Q. She was on a United airlines flight?
330124 A. I can't recall.
330225 Q. Okay. Did you contact the ground -- the
33030128
3304 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3305 2 ground --
3306 3 A. The GSC?
3307 4 Q. Yes. The GSC after you --
3308 5 A. No, I didn't.
3309 6 Q. Why not?
3310 7 A. It was up to the CSS whether to contact
3311 8 the GSC, and I could take care of that situation. I
3312 9 didn't need to contact the GSC at that time.
331310 Q. Mr. Thomas, the two razor knives that were
331411 confiscated that day, were they identical to one
331512 another or were they different in appearance?
331613 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
331714 A. They were just razors, razor knives.
331815 Q. Well, for instance, did they have the same
331916 color handle?
332017 A. They was gray.
332118 Q. I mean did they appear to be the same or
332219 did they appear to be manufactured by different
332320 companies?
332421 A. Well, I don't know if they're manufactured
332522 by different companies, but they appeared to be the
332623 same.
332724 Q. Okay. The woman, the Middle Eastern woman
332825 that you confiscated the razor from, was she traveling
33290129
3330 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3331 2 with anyone?
3332 3 A. Not that I can recall. I'm not sure. I
3333 4 think she was with another man, but I'm not sure.
3334 5 Q. When you logged into the log the fact that
3335 6 you confiscated both of these blades, did you see any
3336 7 other entries that day?
3337 8 A. Not that I can recall, no. I mean, well,
3338 9 if I didn't have control of the log, then I probably
333910 didn't log anything else except what was going on at
334011 the checkpoint.
334112 Q. Did any other Huntleigh employees tell you
334213 that they confiscated any other box cutters or razors
334314 that morning?
334415 MR. ROSS: Objection to form. At the time
334516 that he left the checkpoint or later on?
334617 MR. TOMASIK: At any time.
334718 MR. ROSS: Okay.
334819 THE WITNESS: No.
334920 BY MR. TOMASIK:
335021 Q. Did you ask anybody whether they had?
335122 A. No.
335223 Q. Did Jennifer Gore ever tell you that she
335324 confiscated box cutters, razor knives, or any sort
335425 of --
33550130
3356 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3357 2 A. No. She didn't tell me.
3358 3 Q. And did you ask her, though?
3359 4 A. No.
3360 5 Q. So, whether she did or didn't, that is
3361 6 something you don't know?
3362 7 A. Right.
3363 8 Q. The log that you recorded this in, have
3364 9 you seen it since that day?
336510 A. No.
336611 Q. When you went back to the checkpoint and
336712 you saw Jennifer crying, saying it was her fault, did
336813 you talk to any other Huntleigh employees at that time?
336914 A. Not that I can recall.
337015 Q. Were there any Huntleigh supervisors that
337116 came to the checkpoint at that time?
337217 A. Yes.
337318 Q. Who?
337419 A. Bill Bourque came to the checkpoint.
337520 Q. Did you ever have a conversation with
337621 Bill Bourque?
337722 A. Not at that time, no.
337823 Q. Did he have a conversation with Ms. Gore
337924 at the checkpoint?
338025 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
33810131
3382 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3383 2 A. I really couldn't say.
3384 3 Q. Did you have a conversation with him later
3385 4 that day or any time about the events of that morning?
3386 5 A. I can't really remember.
3387 6 Q. Did you receive any phone calls at the
3388 7 checkpoint that morning from any Huntleigh supervisors
3389 8 after the planes hit the World Trade Center?
3390 9 A. Not that I can recall.
339110 Q. You told us that you talked to the FBI on
339211 a couple of occasions. Do you remember that?
339312 A. Yes.
339413 Q. Did you tell the officers from the Federal
339514 Bureau of Investigations that you had confiscated razor
339615 blades?
339716 A. Yes.
339817 Q. When you were talking to the agents from
339918 the FBI, did you have the log that you had filled out
340019 that morning with you?
340120 A. No. I didn't.
340221 Q. Did they ask you about that log?
340322 A. No.
340423 Q. The wrap that you described around the
340524 Middle Eastern woman's head, what color was it?
340625 A. I think it was beige.
34070132
3408 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3409 2 Q. And do you recall approximately how old
3410 3 she was?
3411 4 A. No.
3412 5 Q. You told us at the beginning of the
3413 6 deposition, Mr. Thomas, that you looked at and reviewed
3414 7 the 9/11 Commission report when it came out some years
3415 8 ago. Do you recall that?
3416 9 A. Yes.
341710 Q. In that 9/11 Commission report, did you
341811 see photographs of the terrorists?
341912 A. No.
342013 Q. Have you ever seen any of the photographs
342114 of the Al-Qaeda members who boarded Flight 175?
342215 A. Yes.
342316 Q. Where did you see those photographs?
342417 A. TV.
342518 Q. Did you recognize any of them as
342619 passengers going through the checkpoint the morning of
342720 9/11?
342821 A. No. I didn't.
342922 Q. Did the FBI show you photographs of the
343023 passengers?
343124 A. No. No.
343225 Q. One second.
34330133
3434 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3435 2 (Discussion off the record.)
3436 3 MR. TOMASIK: I am going to finish up, but
3437 4 just give me two minutes. If you want to go off the
3438 5 record, then I've got, I promise, less than five
3439 6 minutes.
3440 7 MR. ROSS: Sure.
3441 8 MR. TOMASIK: Off the record.
3442 9 MR. ROSS: Two minutes and stay in here,
344310 or do you want us to -- take five?
344411 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record.
344512 The time is 11:45.
344613 (A recess was taken.)
344714 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record.
344815 The time is 11:50.
344916 BY MR. TOMASIK:
345017 Q. Mr. Thomas, I'm just going to finish up
345118 with a few questions, then my colleague, Mr. Granito,
345219 just has a couple of questions and then we'll be done
345320 here this morning, okay?
345421 A. Yes.
345522 Q. You described for us here today the race,
345623 gender, and the -- of the woman you confiscated the
345724 blade from. Do you recall that discussion we had?
345825 A. Yes.
34590134
3460 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3461 2 Q. When you asked her for her ticket and you
3462 3 wrote her name down, is it your recollection that she
3463 4 had a Middle Eastern accent?
3464 5 A. I don't know. I wouldn't know a
3465 6 Middle Eastern accent.
3466 7 Q. I mean did she have an accent?
3467 8 A. Yes.
3468 9 Q. Okay. And to the best of your
346910 recollection, and it sounds like the FBI has the
347011 paperwork, did you -- do you recall writing down an
347112 Arabic name in the log?
347213 A. Writing down what?
347314 Q. An Arabic name.
347415 A. I wouldn't know.
347516 Q. You don't know one way or the other?
347617 A. No.
347718 Q. Too much time has passed?
347819 A. Right.
347920 Q. Okay. You were checkpoint security
348021 supervisor on duty and somebody needed wheelchairs.
348122 I'm just curious why as a supervisor you would go and
348223 you just wouldn't send someone like Mohamed or another
348324 service person?
348425 A. Well, Francesco picked me because I think
34850135
3486 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3487 2 he thought that I would be more responsible in doing
3488 3 it, as opposed to picking somebody else who would just
3489 4 go and hang out, you know.
3490 5 Q. Okay. As a supervisor, did some of your
3491 6 screeners have the potential or the -- would they do
3492 7 that from time to time?
3493 8 A. Yes.
3494 9 Q. Take extended breaks?
349510 A. Yes.
349611 Q. And once again, I tried to ask you this,
349712 but was there a log filled out for each day when
349813 something was confiscated --
349914 A. Yes.
350015 Q. -- is that how it worked?
350116 And when you logged in any of the blades
350217 that were confiscated the morning of 9/11, did you see
350318 any other entries?
350419 A. Not that I can recall, no.
350520 Q. And when you say that, and I don't mean to
350621 be pushy, is it possible there could have been and you
350722 just don't remember, or is it your testimony you didn't
350823 see them?
350924 A. I just don't recall.
351025 Q. One way or the other?
35110136
3512 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3513 2 A. I don't recall.
3514 3 Q. Okay. Finally, Mr. Thomas, I wanted to
3515 4 ask you a couple more questions about your employment
3516 5 file. If you can get that. I believe that was marked
3517 6 as Exhibit 237.
3518 7 You left the employment of Huntleigh. If
3519 8 you could turn to Page 3052, this is an employee
3520 9 separation report; is that right?
352110 A. Say that again?
352211 Q. This is entitled, "Employee Separation
352312 Report," across the top?
352413 A. Yes.
352514 Q. At the bottom, it says resigned in lieu of
352615 probable cause drug screening. Do you see that?
352716 A. Yes.
352817 Q. Did they ask you to take a drug test that
352918 day?
353019 A. No.
353120 Q. Can you just tell us what happened in that
353221 event? What does that mean?
353322 A. I have no idea.
353423 Q. Okay. I did note that in your employment
353524 file there was a document you signed that did require
353625 you and any employee who was subject to sensitive
35370137
3538 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3539 2 information to subject themselves to drug screening; is
3540 3 that right?
3541 4 A. Yes.
3542 5 Q. Just so we have a clear understanding
3543 6 here, did somebody at Huntleigh ask you to undergo a
3544 7 drug screening and you refused, or not?
3545 8 A. No.
3546 9 Q. Okay.
354710 MR. TOMASIK: Thank you, Mr. Thomas.
354811 THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
354912 DIRECT EXAMINATION
355013 BY MR. GRANITO:
355114 Q. Good morning, Mr. Thomas. My name is
355215 Frank Granito, and I'll try and be as brief as possible
355316 with my follow-up questions.
355417 What was your understanding as to why you
355518 were asked to leave the employ of Huntleigh?
355619 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
355720 Q. Can you answer that?
355821 A. Do I have to answer it?
355922 MR. ROSS: You have to answer --
356023 THE WITNESS: Okay.
356124 MR. ROSS: -- the question, yes.
356225 THE WITNESS: I was -- can you repeat the
35630138
3564 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3565 2 question?
3566 3 BY MR. GRANITO:
3567 4 Q. What was your understanding as to why you
3568 5 were asked -- strike that.
3569 6 Were you asked to leave Huntleigh's employ?
3570 7 A. I resigned because my -- I had tooken some
3571 8 days off that I wasn't supposed to take off.
3572 9 Q. When? When was this?
357310 A. This was after 9/11.
357411 Q. Approximately how long after 9/11?
357512 A. I can't recall exactly when.
357613 Q. More than a month?
357714 A. Less than a month.
357815 Q. What was the reason that you took off
357916 those days without permission?
358017 A. My father was sick.
358118 Q. When you returned to Huntleigh after those
358219 days off without permission, who, if anyone, at
358320 Huntleigh said something to you about the absence?
358421 Mr. Bourque?
358522 A. No. Mr. Bourque wasn't there at the time.
358623 I can't remember. Bob Harbow [phonetic].
358724 Q. And who is Bob Harbow?
358825 A. He was a new GM.
35890139
3590 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3591 2 Q. He had replaced Mr. Bourque?
3592 3 A. Yes.
3593 4 Q. And do you recall what he said to you?
3594 5 A. Well, he asked me why I was late, why I
3595 6 took days off. I told him why I took the days off. He
3596 7 said I can't do that. You -- he gave me an option to
3597 8 resign instead of being fired.
3598 9 Q. Did he also give you the option to take a
359910 drug test in lieu of resigning?
360011 A. No.
360112 Q. Not that you recall?
360213 A. Not that I recall.
360314 Q. Did you use drugs during that time frame?
360415 A. No. I didn't.
360516 Q. Have you ever been convicted of a -- prior
360617 to 9/11, had you ever been convicted of a crime?
360718 A. No.
360819 Q. At any time, have you ever been convicted
360920 of a crime?
361021 A. No.
361122 Q. Prior to 9/11, did you ever receive any
361223 training from Rosco Mills?
361324 A. No.
361425 Q. Prior to 9/11, did you receive any type of
36150140
3616 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3617 2 information from Rosco Mills pertaining to the way you
3618 3 were performing your job as a supervisor?
3619 4 A. Not that I can recall, no.
3620 5 Q. Prior to 9/11, did you receive any advice
3621 6 from Mr. Mills concerning how you should be performing
3622 7 your job as a supervisor?
3623 8 A. No.
3624 9 Q. Prior to 9/11, did you receive any such
362510 information or training from any other GSC at United
362611 Airlines?
362712 A. Not that I can recall.
362813 Q. Earlier you said under questioning that
362914 you remembered Mr. Mills as being a GSC, but you
363015 couldn't recall the names of any other GSCs at United?
363116 A. Right.
363217 Q. Do you recall that?
363318 A. Correct.
363419 Q. How would you get in touch with a United
363520 Airlines GSC if there was an issue at the checkpoint
363621 that you wanted addressed?
363722 A. There was a phone number I could call.
363823 Q. And where --
363924 A. An extension.
364025 Q. Okay. And where did that extension go to?
36410141
3642 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3643 2 Do you know?
3644 3 A. It went to the ticket counter.
3645 4 Q. And when you called the ticket counter,
3646 5 what, if anything, would you say?
3647 6 A. I would ask for a GSC.
3648 7 Q. Can you describe by physical
3649 8 characteristics any of the other GSCs that came to the
3650 9 checkpoints during the time you were a supervisor,
365110 other than Mr. Mills?
365211 A. There was one guy, about maybe 6 feet,
365312 Caucasian, short hair.
365413 Q. Anyone else?
365514 A. He was gay. No one else I can remember.
365615 Q. On how many occasions during the time you
365716 were supervisor for Huntleigh did you ask for a GSC,
365817 approximately, to come to a checkpoint?
365918 A. I really couldn't recall that one.
366019 Q. September 11th, did you consider yourself
366120 an expert in the area of preboard screening practices
366221 and procedures?
366322 A. An expert? No.
366423 Q. Did you consider yourself a specialist?
366524 A. No.
366625 Q. Would I be correct that if a knife was
36670142
3668 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3669 2 detected, regardless of the size of the blade or
3670 3 whether it was serrated or menacing, if it was detected
3671 4 prior to 9/11 by a screener, they were to contact the
3672 5 supervisor?
3673 6 A. Correct.
3674 7 Q. And then the supervisor would make a
3675 8 decision as to the disposition of the item?
3676 9 A. Correct.
367710 Q. And prior to 9/11, what, if anything,
367811 would you do if it was brought to your attention that a
367912 passenger had a knife with a three -- with a blade less
368013 than four inches?
368114 A. Prior to 9/11, that knife was allowed.
368215 Q. Would you take any other factors into
368316 consideration in determining whether or not the
368417 passenger could go through with the knife?
368518 A. Just the size of the knife.
368619 Q. That's it?
368720 A. (Witness nodded.)
368821 Q. You have to answer.
368922 A. Yes.
369023 Q. Prior to 9/11, were toy weapons prohibited
369124 items?
369225 A. Yes. They were.
36930143
3694 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3695 2 Q. A toy gun was a prohibited item?
3696 3 A. Yes. It was.
3697 4 Q. Was a toy knife a prohibited item?
3698 5 A. Yes. It was.
3699 6 Q. What about a toy knife with a
3700 7 three-and-a-half inch blade?
3701 8 A. It can go.
3702 9 Q. It couldn't go?
370310 A. It could go.
370411 Q. It could go?
370512 A. Yes.
370613 Q. Is that something you learned in your
370714 training?
370815 A. Yes.
370916 Q. A toy knife with a blade less than four
371017 inches was not prohibited?
371118 A. Correct.
371219 Q. Do you recall who told you that?
371320 A. It was in the training.
371421 Q. Okay. Now, you also testified under
371522 questioning from Mr. Tomasik that at some point the
371623 procedures concerning continuous random searching of
371724 carry-on bags changed; is that correct?
371825 A. Correct.
37190144
3720 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3721 2 Q. And was it your testimony that the
3722 3 procedure was an increase in the number of bags that
3723 4 were to be checked?
3724 5 A. It was just a change in procedure.
3725 6 Q. Okay. And I think that you used the
3726 7 phrase it changed from every third bag to "as often as
3727 8 you can," is that correct?
3728 9 A. Right. Correct.
372910 Q. And do you understand "as often as you
373011 can" to be more than every third bag or less than every
373112 third bag?
373213 A. It depends on the flow of traffic.
373314 Q. Were you provided with any additional
373415 screeners when you received the directive to do the
373516 random continuous search as often as you can?
373617 A. It depends on the flow of traffic.
373718 Q. Were you specifically provided with any
373819 additional preboard screeners when the change was
373920 instituted?
374021 A. Yes.
374122 Q. All right. And was that a written change?
374223 A. No.
374324 Q. When was the change put into place?
374425 A. I can't recall when it was put in place.
37450145
3746 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3747 2 Q. What was the change in the number of
3748 3 screeners, pre-change versus post-change?
3749 4 A. Just a couple of screeners from different
3750 5 checkpoints.
3751 6 Q. So, there was an additional two
3752 7 screeners --
3753 8 A. Yes.
3754 9 Q. -- added to the checkpoint?
375510 A. Yes.
375611 Q. Is that correct?
375712 A. Correct.
375813 Q. And was the job of those two screeners to
375914 participate in the continuous random bag search?
376015 A. That was to participate in everything at
376116 the checkpoint.
376217 Q. Including the continuous random bag
376318 search?
376419 A. Yes.
376520 Q. How long does a bag search, on average,
376621 take? Talking pre9/11.
376722 A. How long does a what?
376823 Q. On average, a bag search, a search of a
376924 piece of carry-on bag?
377025 A. Yes.
37710146
3772 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3773 2 Q. Baggage, how long did that take pre9/11?
3774 3 A. It depends how big the bag was.
3775 4 MR. CONNORS: Objection.
3776 5 Q. Pardon me?
3777 6 A. Depending how big the bag was.
3778 7 Q. Can you approximate the range of time it
3779 8 would take?
3780 9 A. Depends on if I was looking for something
378110 in the bag how long it would take. I would say up to
378211 three minutes. Five minutes.
378312 Q. And on 9/11, do you know how many
378413 screeners were assigned to that duty?
378514 A. I couldn't recall, no.
378615 Q. On a day-to-day basis, can you tell me
378716 that everything Huntleigh and United did to help you to
378817 be a better preboard screening supervisor?
378918 A. Can I tell you everything?
379019 Q. Yes.
379120 A. Well, everything I did was according to
379221 the COG.
379322 Q. All right. Forgetting your training that
379423 you received, I want to know on a day-to-day basis
379524 everything that Huntleigh and United did for you to
379625 help you be a better preboard screening supervisor.
37970147
3798 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3799 2 A. I guess I would say --
3800 3 MR. CURCIO: Objection to form.
3801 4 A. -- they hired people that were
3802 5 confidence -- competent to the job. There's not much I
3803 6 can remember. That's the best I can come up with.
3804 7 Q. The hiring of competent screeners?
3805 8 A. Yes. Yes.
3806 9 Q. Did the screeners prior to 9/11 at the
380710 checkpoint that you worked tend to have disputes with
380811 each other?
380912 A. Yes.
381013 Q. Did part of your time become sort of a
381114 babysitter to manage the disputes?
381215 MR. ROSS: Objection to form.
381316 A. Yes. Babysit, yes.
381417 Q. And in your opinion as a checkpoint
381518 supervisor, did those disputes tend to take away from
381619 the performance of their job as screeners?
381720 A. No.
381821 Q. Well, it certainly couldn't have helped,
381922 could it?
382023 A. No. It couldn't have helped.
382124 Q. And it was disruptive to the performance
382225 of screening performance, correct?
38230148
3824 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3825 2 MR. ROSS: Objection to form. Asked and
3826 3 answered.
3827 4 A. I already answered that one.
3828 5 Q. Were there particular screeners that you
3829 6 had more trouble with in this regard than others?
3830 7 A. Yes, sir.
3831 8 Q. Who were they?
3832 9 A. One guy was named Chris.
383310 Q. Fernandez?
383411 A. Yes.
383512 Q. What was Chris' problem?
383613 A. Women.
383714 Q. Could you justice elaborate on that a
383815 level bit more?
383916 A. He liked to check out the ladies when they
384017 came through the checkpoint.
384118 Q. And I take it that the focus should be
384219 entirely 100 percent on the screening of passengers as
384320 opposed to the screening of potential dates, correct?
384421 A. Correct.
384522 Q. Is this a problem that you addressed with
384623 Chris?
384724 A. Say that again?
384825 Q. Is this a problem that you addressed with
38490149
3850 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3851 2 Mr. Fernandez?
3852 3 A. Yes.
3853 4 Q. Did you ever have to write Mr. Fernandez
3854 5 up because of this?
3855 6 A. No. I just changed his post.
3856 7 Q. Did you have the ability to write up
3857 8 certain screeners if they were creating problems?
3858 9 A. Yes.
385910 Q. Where was that done? Where was the
386011 write-up actually physically put?
386112 A. It was like an incident report.
386213 Q. And was this a separate form that you --
386314 A. Yes, it was.
386415 Q. -- had as a supervisor?
386516 A. Yes.
386617 Q. A form that was maintained at the
386718 checkpoint?
386819 A. Yes, it was.
386920 Q. Had you on occasion filled out that form?
387021 A. I didn't have to, no.
387122 Q. You never did?
387223 A. (Witness shook head.)
387324 Q. You used other ways to --
387425 A. Yes. I just moved him from the post.
38750150
3876 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3877 2 Q. Do you know if Jennifer Gore ever used
3878 3 those forms to write up employees?
3879 4 A. I really couldn't say, no.
3880 5 Q. Were you instructed what to do with those
3881 6 forms if you wrote up an employee?
3882 7 A. I was instructed to leave them at the post
3883 8 and the duty -- the duty manager would come by and pick
3884 9 up all the forms that he had to pick up for that day.
388510 Q. Did you get along professionally with
388611 Jennifer Gore?
388712 A. Yes.
388813 Q. Did you ever tell Jennifer -- have any
388914 discussions with Jennifer Gore concerning the preboard
389015 screening for Flight 175?
389116 A. Not that I can recall, no.
389217 Q. You never had any discussions about the
389318 two box cutters that you confiscated?
389419 A. No.
389520 Q. She never said anything to you about any
389621 potential items she may have confiscated?
389722 A. Not that I can recall.
389823 Q. And you never had a post-9/11 sitdown
389924 where you said let's try and go through and recreate
390025 the morning screening?
39010151
3902 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3903 2 A. No.
3904 3 Q. Did you have any other problems with
3905 4 Mr. Fernandez besides what you've just testified to?
3906 5 A. No. That was it.
3907 6 Q. Did Mr. Fernandez have any problems with
3908 7 any other screeners?
3909 8 A. No.
3910 9 Q. Did you have any problems with any other
391110 checkpoint screeners other than Mr. Fernandez?
391211 A. A guy named Mark. Marco.
391312 Q. Do you know his last name?
391413 A. I can't remember his last name.
391514 Q. And what was the problem that you had with
391615 Mr. -- or Marco?
391716 A. Marco had a tendency to not pay attention.
391817 Q. And again, that is not a good thing if
391918 you're an aviation checkpoint screener?
392019 A. Right. Right.
392120 Q. I take it, though, you never wrote up
392221 Marco?
392322 A. I sent Marco home.
392423 Q. Okay. On more than one occasion?
392524 A. Just once.
392625 Q. When you said you would switch
39270152
3928 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3929 2 Mr. Fernandez from his post when he was being
3930 3 flirtatious, where did you send him?
3931 4 A. To the exit.
3932 5 Q. To guard the exit?
3933 6 A. Yes. That was -- that was a punishment.
3934 7 Q. How did you determine if a knife blade was
3935 8 less than four inches?
3936 9 A. Well, we have a badge, and we used that
393710 badge. The badge is three-and-a-half inches wide. And
393811 if the knife is a little bit too longer than that, then
393912 we wouldn't let it go through.
394013 MR. GRANITO: I have nothing further.
394114 Thank you.
394215 THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
394316 DIRECT EXAMINATION
394417 BY MS. HESSION:
394518 Q. Mr. Thomas, Hi. My name is Cathi Hession.
394619 I just have a couple of questions for you.
394720 On September 11th, Jennifer Gore was a
394821 relatively new CSS; isn't that correct?
394922 A. No. She was there before me.
395023 Q. She was there before you acting as a CSS?
395124 A. She was a CSS before I became CSS.
395225 Q. So, in your view, she was just as
39530153
3954 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3955 2 experienced as you were on September 11th?
3956 3 A. Yes.
3957 4 Q. Okay. Had you worked with her on prior
3958 5 occasions?
3959 6 A. No.
3960 7 Q. You had never worked with her before as a
3961 8 CSS?
3962 9 A. No.
396310 Q. I'm going to show you, sir, what has been
396411 previously marked at depositions as Exhibit 139. And
396512 I'm going to call your attention to a page of that
396613 exhibit, which has the designation HUSA03469. Take a
396714 minute to take a look at that.
396815 What is that, sir?
396916 A. It's a control log.
397017 Q. And what date is that from?
397118 A. 9/8/01.
397219 Q. And is that from the United checkpoint at
397320 Logan?
397421 A. Yes.
397522 Q. Who were the two CSSes on duty that day?
397623 A. Me and Jennifer.
397724 Q. So, does this refresh your recollection as
397825 to whether you had worked with Ms. Gore before?
39790154
3980 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
3981 2 A. Yes.
3982 3 Q. Okay. Do you recall on that day that
3983 4 Ms. Gore was having some problems establishing her
3984 5 authority over the screeners and they were bugging her
3985 6 by talking only to you?
3986 7 A. Which day was this? This day?
3987 8 Q. The day that you're looking at, sir.
3988 9 A. I don't recollect that day, no.
398910 Q. Okay. Do you see an entry made there in
399011 that report to that effect?
399112 A. I don't see it.
399213 Q. Can I see it a minute? I'm going to call
399314 your attention to --
399415 MR. ROSS: Do you want to just mark --
399516 Q. I'm sorry. I've given you the wrong page.
399617 Do you recall an incident like that ever occurring
399718 where the screeners on the line were speaking only to
399819 you and deliberately ignoring Ms. Gore?
399920 MR. ROSS: Objection to form. Asked and
400021 answered.
400122 A. I can't recall.
400223 Q. That never happened?
400324 A. I can't recall.
400425 Q. Did you observe Ms. Gore ever having any
40050155
4006 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4007 2 problems establishing her authority as a CSS at the
4008 3 checkpoint?
4009 4 A. Not that I can remember.
4010 5 Q. On the morning of September 11th when you
4011 6 left the checkpoint, were both of the lines open?
4012 7 A. I can't recall.
4013 8 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you what we
4014 9 previously marked as Exhibit 137, which is the security
401510 report control log for September 11th, and call your
401611 attention to the first entry, the 5 o'clock entry. Do
401712 you see that entry?
401813 A. Yes.
401914 Q. Does that refresh your recollection as to
402015 whether one or both lines were open that day?
402116 A. That's what it says, yes.
402217 Q. It says both lines were open?
402318 A. Yes.
402419 Q. Okay. And what personnel were present
402520 when the checkpoint was open that morning?
402621 A. There was eight PBSes and three SSes.
402722 Q. And what does SS stand for?
402823 A. Security supervisors.
402924 Q. Does SS also stand for special services?
403025 A. Oh, yes, special service services. Yes.
40310156
4032 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4033 2 Q. Is that what that refers to, special
4034 3 services?
4035 4 A. Yes.
4036 5 Q. And what were the special services
4037 6 employees? What was their function?
4038 7 A. Wheelchairs and baggage handlers.
4039 8 Q. If there were three SSes at the checkpoint
4040 9 on 9/11, why were you sent to go look for wheelchairs?
404110 MR. ROSS: Objection to form. There was
404211 three as of 5 a.m.
404312 A. Yes. I wasn't sent at that time.
404413 Q. Were there any special services employees
404514 at the checkpoint at the time that you were sent to go
404615 look for wheelchairs?
404716 A. Not that I can recall.
404817 Q. Why were you sent to look for wheelchairs?
404918 A. Because I was more responsible.
405019 Q. Okay. But for what purpose were you to
405120 round up wheelchairs?
405221 A. Because they needed wheelchairs to deplane
405322 people off the plane, the people that needed
405423 wheelchairs.
405524 Q. And when you say "they," you mean special
405625 services?
40570157
4058 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4059 2 A. Yes.
4060 3 Q. Okay. And who was the supervisor of the
4061 4 special services employees?
4062 5 A. Francesco was supervisor for all of them,
4063 6 for the whole checkpoint, special services, bag
4064 7 handlers.
4065 8 Q. When you left the checkpoint that morning
4066 9 to go look for wheelchairs with Mohamed, did you close
406710 down one of the lines at the checkpoint?
406811 A. Not that I can recall.
406912 Q. Both lines were still open when you left?
407013 A. Not that I can recall.
407114 Q. Bear with me for one minute, Mr. Thomas.
407215 Did you have any concern at all on the
407316 morning of September 11th about leaving Ms. Gore alone
407417 as the only checkpoint supervisor in charge of both
407518 lines at the United checkpoint?
407619 A. No.
407720 MS. HESSION: Thank you. That's all I
407821 have.
407922 MR. ROSS: Any on the defense side?
408023 MR. ELLIS: Yes. I might have.
408124 MR. ROSS: Do you want to go first? I
408225 might have a few, too, but I can wait for you or
40830158
4084 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4085 2 however you want to do it.
4086 3 MR. ELLIS: Do you want to start so I can
4087 4 disconnect?
4088 5 MR. ROSS: Yes. Why don't I wait while
4089 6 you're -- well, I'll start.
4090 7 CROSS-EXAMINATION
4091 8 BY MR. ROSS:
4092 9 Q. So -- excuse me. So, we can get you out
409310 of here quickly, I'm going to go ahead and ask some
409411 questions and then Mr. Ellis, counsel for United, might
409512 ask you some questions, too, Mr. Thomas, okay?
409613 A. Okay.
409714 Q. I want to clear up a little bit about the
409815 timeline that morning. Let me hand you back
409916 Exhibit 137 that you just looked at, the security
410017 report control log.
410118 And look at that first line. What time does
410219 it say both lanes at the checkpoint were opened?
410320 A. 5:15 a.m.
410421 Q. 5:15 a.m. Does that refresh your
410522 recollection -- I think your testimony earlier was
410623 around 6. Does that refresh your recollection that it
410724 was a little bit earlier, around 5:15?
410825 A. Yes, it does.
41090159
4110 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4111 2 Q. Okay. How long do you -- I think, then,
4112 3 you said, and wasn't clear about this, when you
4113 4 actually left the supervisor -- left the checkpoint to
4114 5 round up the wheelchairs. Do you recall -- instead of
4115 6 my asking you for a specific time, do you recall about
4116 7 how long you were at the checkpoint acting as a CSS
4117 8 from 5:15 a.m. onward until you left?
4118 9 A. Maybe an hour, hour and a half.
411910 Q. Hour, hour and a half. So, that would
412011 place your leaving around -- between 6:15 and 6:45?
412112 A. Right.
412213 Q. Okay. And once -- and it was during that
412314 time, that hour, hour and a half, that the events
412415 regarding the two box cutters that you described
412516 occurred?
412617 A. Correct.
412718 Q. Okay. If Jennifer Gore subsequent, after
412819 you left, also recorded confiscated box cutters and
412920 recorded that, that would not be on the sheet that you
413021 filled out before you left, right?
413122 COUNSEL: Objection to the form.
413223 A. No.
413324 Q. If she did?
413425 COUNSEL: Same objection.
41350160
4136 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4137 2 A. No.
4138 3 Q. Okay. And then just to be clear, after
4139 4 you left, you did not return to the checkpoint acting
4140 5 as a CSS or for any other reason until after you heard
4141 6 about the -- at least one of the planes crashing into
4142 7 the World Trade Center, correct?
4143 8 A. Correct. Right.
4144 9 Q. Okay. Sir, they asked a little bit about
414510 your leaving the company, at least for the first time.
414611 We'll get into that in a second.
414712 I want to show you again Exhibit 237. They
414813 looked at this and had you look at this employee
414914 separation report --
415015 A. Yes.
415116 Q. -- on HUSA3052. Turn to the next page,
415217 HUSA3033, and tell us what that is.
415318 A. This is my resignation letter.
415419 Q. Okay. And can you read it into the record
415520 for us?
415621 A. "I, William Thomas, resign my position" --
415722 Q. Slow down. She has got to take down what
415823 you are saying.
415924 A. "I, William Thomas, resign my position at
416025 Huntleigh U.S.A. for personal reasons due to family
41610161
4162 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4163 2 issues."
4164 3 Q. Due to family issues. And the family
4165 4 issues, did that -- was that about your father, as
4166 5 you've already testified?
4167 6 A. Yes.
4168 7 Q. Okay. Did you ever return to Huntleigh?
4169 8 A. Yes.
4170 9 Q. Okay. Tell us about that. When did you
417110 come back and work for Huntleigh?
417211 A. Maybe two to three years ago, I came back.
417312 And I worked as a ticket -- checking tickets at the --
417413 before the checkpoint.
417514 Q. Okay. This was after TSA had taken over
417615 the screening functions, correct?
417716 A. Yes.
417817 Q. And how long did you work for Huntleigh?
417918 A. Maybe a month.
418019 Q. Okay. And was Jennifer Gore working there
418120 when you returned?
418221 A. Yes.
418322 Q. Okay. And is that why you had contact
418423 with Jennifer Gore about two years ago?
418524 A. Yes.
418625 Q. Since you left Huntleigh for the second
41870162
4188 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4189 2 time, have you had any contact with Jennifer Gore?
4190 3 A. No, I haven't.
4191 4 Q. There is a little bit of talk about an
4192 5 office, a Huntleigh office.
4193 6 Before 9/11, was that -- was Huntleigh
4194 7 provided office space at Logan Airport? Right on --
4195 8 A. Before 9/11?
4196 9 Q. -- on -- at the terminal?
419710 A. Before 9/11, I can't recall exactly when
419811 they was provided. But they were provided.
419912 Q. Okay. At some point they were provided.
420013 A. Yes.
420114 Q. But you can recall at a time that you were
420215 there that the office was not at the terminal?
420316 A. Right.
420417 Q. Okay. Where was that office, to the best
420518 of your recollection?
420619 A. It was outside the airport.
420720 Q. Thirty minutes away? Two minutes away?
420821 A. It depends if you're driving a car or
420922 catching a bus.
421023 Q. If you --
421124 A. It was in East Boston. It was maybe five
421225 minutes away.
42130163
4214 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4215 2 Q. Okay. And that -- and that is where
4216 3 records of Huntleigh's operations at Logan were kept?
4217 4 A. Yes.
4218 5 Q. The -- Mr. Tomasik asked you about tests
4219 6 that Huntleigh or United would do at the checkpoint,
4220 7 and talked about that certain items, certain prohibited
4221 8 items weren't tested for. Do you recall that?
4222 9 A. Yes.
422310 Q. Do you recall that the FAA conducted tests
422411 at the checkpoint?
422512 A. Yes.
422613 Q. Okay. Did the FAA ever test you on your
422714 ability to find box cutters?
422815 A. No.
422916 Q. Did the FAA ever test you on your ability
423017 to find knives?
423118 A. No.
423219 Q. Okay. Did you ever fail an FAA test?
423320 A. No.
423421 Q. Mr. Tomasik asked you some questions about
423522 how if you had certain -- if you were able to increase
423623 the frequency of certain operations at the checkpoint,
423724 like pat-down searches, how would that affect your
423825 work. Do you recall that?
42390164
4240 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4241 2 A. Yes.
4242 3 Q. Do you know if the FAA would allow you to
4243 4 do a pat-down search of every passenger that came
4244 5 through the checkpoint?
4245 6 A. They wouldn't allow that.
4246 7 Q. Okay. Would they allow you to do a hand
4247 8 bag search? A manual bag search of every bag that came
4248 9 through the checkpoint?
424910 A. No. They wouldn't allow that.
425011 Q. Would they allow you to do a hand wand of
425112 every passenger that came through the checkpoint?
425213 A. No. They wouldn't.
425314 Q. You were a screener for both Argenbright
425415 and then for Huntleigh for -- I'm going to total it up
425516 at around three years, give or take; is that correct?
425617 A. Yes. Correct.
425718 Q. From your understanding of how the system
425819 worked, do you believe that the system could detect
425920 every single prohibited item that might come through
426021 the checkpoint?
426122 A. Could not detect every single piece.
426223 Q. Were you doing your job if when you
426324 detected an item that was not supposed to go through
426425 the checkpoint, you confiscated it?
42650165
4266 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4267 2 A. Yes.
4268 3 Q. If you detected an item that you knew was
4269 4 not supposed to go through the checkpoint but you let
4270 5 it through anyway, you wouldn't be doing your job,
4271 6 would you?
4272 7 A. No. I wouldn't.
4273 8 Q. Okay. But if an item did not get detected
4274 9 and it got through, do you think that in and of -- just
427510 that fact alone means that you somehow were not
427611 following the proper procedures?
427712 MR. TOMASIK: Objection, form, foundation.
427813 A. That wouldn't constitute that I wasn't
427914 doing my job.
428015 Q. So, if in fact you were following proper
428116 procedures, it was your understanding from your
428217 experience that things might get through, even if you
428318 were following the appropriate procedures?
428419 MR. TOMASIK: Objection, form.
428520 A. Yes.
428621 MR. ROSS: That's all I have. Mr. Ellis?
428722 MR. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
428823 CROSS-EXAMINATION
428924 BY MR. ELLIS:
429025 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Thomas. I'll try and
42910166
4292 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4293 2 make this quick. I know you said you have to be out of
4294 3 here.
4295 4 When you were at the checkpoint on 9/11, are
4296 5 you familiar with whether or not the checkpoint was
4297 6 equipped with something called the Threat Image
4298 7 Projection System?
4299 8 A. It wasn't equipped with that, no.
4300 9 Q. TIPS?
430110 A. Yes.
430211 Q. Okay. And it was equipped with TIPS?
430312 A. Yes. It was.
430413 Q. Do you know if that stands for the "Threat
430514 Image Projection System"?
430615 A. I'm not sure, no.
430716 Q. Do you know if that was an FAA-approved
430817 training device?
430918 A. Not that I can recall, no.
431019 Q. Do you know whether or not that system
431120 projected on the x-ray screen, that the screeners were
431221 using, various threat objects that might go through the
431322 system?
431423 A. Yes. It did.
431524 Q. And was that system used to help screeners
431625 be better able to identify threat objects?
43170167
4318 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4319 2 A. Yes.
4320 3 Q. Hold off on your answer after I ask the
4321 4 question because I'm going to look to the Government.
4322 5 Can you tell me whether or not that
4323 6 government approved testing system for threat objects
4324 7 included any images of mace, box cutters, or pepper
4325 8 spray?
4326 9 COUNSEL: Objection, form, foundation.
432710 MR. ROSS: We have to see if the
432811 Government will allow you to answer. Just hold on,
432912 they're talking.
433013 (Discussion off the record.)
433114 MS. GOLDMAN: He can answer the question.
433215 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the
433316 question?
433417 MR. ELLIS: Could the reporter read the
433518 question back?
433619 (The pending question was read
433720 by the reporter as requested.)
433821 THE WITNESS: It didn't include any images
433922 of those items.
434023 BY MR. ELLIS:
434124 Q. Did the FAA conduct audits and tests of
434225 the checkpoint?
43430168
4344 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4345 2 A. Yes, it did.
4346 3 Q. Do you know whether the purpose of those
4347 4 audits was to see if Huntleigh was performing its
4348 5 mandatory security obligations?
4349 6 A. I would say that was its purpose.
4350 7 Q. Did the FAA ever tell you Huntleigh should
4351 8 be patting down more passengers or conducting more
4352 9 carry-on baggage checks or using hand wands more than
435310 what they were using them for?
435411 A. Not that I can recall.
435512 MR. TOMASIK: Objection to form.
435613 A. Not that I can recall.
435714 Q. Do you know who was responsible for the
435815 design or the approval of the design of the security
435916 measures that you were implementing?
436017 A. No. I don't.
436118 MR. TOMASIK: Objection to form.
436219 Q. Have you ever reviewed the White House
436320 Commission Report of 1990 following the Lockerbie
436421 incident?
436522 A. No, I haven't.
436623 Q. Are you familiar with any of the
436724 discussions in that document regarding whether or not
436825 there should be long lines at security checkpoints?
43690169
4370 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4371 2 A. No. I'm not familiar.
4372 3 Q. Are you familiar with the attacks at
4373 4 either the Rome or Vienna airports?
4374 5 A. No, I'm not.
4375 6 Q. Are you familiar what a no-fly list is?
4376 7 A. Yes.
4377 8 Q. And do you know whether prior to 9/11 the
4378 9 FAA had ever issued a no-fly list regarding Osama
437910 bin Laden or any other particular Middle Eastern
438011 terrorists?
438112 A. Not that I can recall.
438213 Q. You were asked some questions before by
438314 Mr. Tomasik regarding an information circular, and you
438415 recalled an information circular regarding a pen gun
438516 and an information circular regarding a credit card
438617 knife.
438718 A. Yes.
438819 Q. Did those documents tell you to do
438920 anything different at the checkpoint?
439021 A. Just to watch out for them.
439122 Q. Okay. And if you saw one of these things,
439223 you'd take them away?
439324 A. I would, yes, I would take them away and
439425 call a GSC, yes.
43950170
4396 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4397 2 Q. Did those documents that were issued by
4398 3 the FAA tell you to do more pat-down searches, more
4399 4 hand wanding, more x-rays?
4400 5 A. No. They didn't.
4401 6 MR. ELLIS: I think that is about it,
4402 7 Mr. Thomas. Just hold on one second.
4403 8 I have nothing further. Thank you, sir.
4404 9 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
440510 MR. TOMASIK: Thank you. Anything else?
440611 MR. GRANITO: Yes. I have a couple.
440712
440813 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
440914 BY MR. GRANITO:
441015 Q. Mr. Thomas, did those documents that
441116 Mr. Ellis just referred to, tell you that you couldn't
441217 perform additional pat-downs?
441318 A. They didn't tell me, no, they didn't.
441419 Q. What was the authority for your statement
441520 that the FAA wouldn't let you check every carry-on bag?
441621 A. Say that again?
441722 Q. You testified earlier that the FAA would
441823 not let you check every carry-on bag.
441924 A. Yes.
442025 Q. Do you recall testifying to that?
44210171
4422 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4423 2 A. Yes, I do.
4424 3 Q. What is the authority for that statement?
4425 4 Where do you get that from?
4426 5 A. Where do I get it from?
4427 6 Q. Yes.
4428 7 A. It's not in the COG.
4429 8 Q. And so that is the basis of the authority
4430 9 for that statement?
443110 A. Yes. If it's not in the COG, it's no --
443211 you shouldn't do it.
443312 Q. You understand that you have no leeway,
443413 then, if it's not in the COG?
443514 A. Right.
443615 Q. Before under questioning from Mr. Ross, I
443716 believe, you stated that you're not able to detect
443817 every dangerous item that goes through the checkpoint;
443918 is that correct?
444019 A. Correct.
444120 Q. And items are going to get through,
444221 correct?
444322 A. I don't know.
444423 Q. Well, you said it's possible they're going
444524 to get through, correct?
444625 A. It's possible.
44470172
4448 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4449 2 Q. It's not your fault if that happens,
4450 3 correct?
4451 4 A. Correct.
4452 5 Q. What percentage of items are you able to
4453 6 detect? Dangerous items?
4454 7 A. What percentage of? I don't know the
4455 8 percentage.
4456 9 Q. Are you shooting for 80 percent?
445710 A. I'm shooting for a hundred.
445811 Q. Okay. That is the goal, correct?
445912 A. Correct.
446013 Q. That is what the COG says, correct?
446114 A. No.
446215 Q. The COG doesn't say that the idea is to
446316 keep a sterile environment past the checkpoint?
446417 A. To keep the area sterile. It says to keep
446518 the area sterile.
446619 Q. For example, if Mr. Fernandez is busy
446720 attempting to flirt with a passenger and another
446821 passenger gets through with a dangerous item, whose
446922 fault is that?
447023 COUNSEL: Objection.
447124 MR. ROSS: Same.
447225 THE WITNESS: I really couldn't say.
44730173
4474 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4475 2 BY MR. GRANITO:
4476 3 Q. Would the buck stop with United Airlines
4477 4 in that situation?
4478 5 MR. ELLIS: Objection.
4479 6 A. I really couldn't say.
4480 7 Q. Do you know if United Airlines informs its
4481 8 passengers that it's not a 100 percent security system?
4482 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection.
448310 MS. GUILFOYLE: Objection.
448411 THE WITNESS: I don't work for United so I
448512 don't know.
448613 BY MR. GRANITO:
448714 Q. Did you ever go to the office that was off
448815 the airport?
448916 A. Yes.
449017 Q. The Huntleigh office?
449118 A. Yes.
449219 Q. On what occasions would you go to that
449320 office?
449421 A. To pick up my check.
449522 Q. Pick up your check. Other than going to
449623 the Huntleigh office to pick up your check, did you
449724 ever go there prior to 9/11?
449825 A. To get the job.
44990174
4500 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4501 2 Q. Other than to go there to get your job and
4502 3 to pick up your checks, did you ever go to the
4503 4 Huntleigh office?
4504 5 A. To go to the formal training.
4505 6 Q. Other than training, job application, and
4506 7 pick up your check?
4507 8 A. No.
4508 9 Q. When you were out of work because of your
450910 dad -- I believe you said your dad was sick?
451011 A. (Witness nodded.)
451112 Q. It was a family problem?
451213 A. My father was sick. He's my family.
451314 Q. Well, that is what I'm trying to -- your
451415 father was sick and that is why you were away from
451516 work --
451617 A. Yes.
451718 Q. -- without permission, correct?
451819 A. Yes.
451920 Q. And how many days was that?
452021 A. That was five days.
452122 Q. And at any time during those five days,
452223 did you call anyone at Huntleigh to advise them that
452324 you'd be out of the office because your dad was sick?
452425 A. No.
45250175
4526 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4527 2 MR. GRANITO: I have nothing further, but
4528 3 I think Mr. Tomasik has a follow-up.
4529 4 MR. TOMASIK: We may not.
4530 5 (Discussion off the record.)
4531 6 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
4532 7 BY MR. TOMASIK:
4533 8 Q. If you still have Exhibit 132, sir, that,
4534 9 is the Screener Policy and Procedure Manual. In terms
453510 of the searches of carry-on baggage, who did you say
453611 instructed you to conduct the random searches of those
453712 bags?
453813 A. My duty manager.
453914 Q. Okay. And you said the COG didn't allow
454015 to you do something. What was that?
454116 A. The COG doesn't state that I should do
454217 that.
454318 Q. Okay. I'd like you just to look at
454419 Page 1248 of the Huntleigh Screener Policy and
454520 Procedure Manual. Okay?
454621 We're going to be looking at a section, page
454722 before "Standards for Screening Personnel." Do you
454823 see, C, effective July 1996? That section?
454924 A. I see 1248, right?
455025 Q. Yes. Left hand.
45510176
4552 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4553 2 A. Yes. I see it.
4554 3 Q. Okay. The last two sentences read, "The
4555 4 primary items to be physically searched shall be
4556 5 selected by the x-ray operator. When physical search
4557 6 as requested by an x-ray operator is not being
4558 7 conducted, the CSS will ensure a continuation of
4559 8 physical searches on bags selected at random." Do you
4560 9 see that?
456110 A. Yes.
456211 Q. Your own policy and procedure manual
456312 allowed you to instruct screeners to conduct random
456413 searches. True?
456514 A. True.
456615 Q. Okay.
456716 MR. TOMASIK: That's it.
456817 (Discussion off the record.)
456918 BY MR. TOMASIK:
457019 Q. Did you do another application the second
457120 time around at Huntleigh?
457221 A. Did I?
457322 Q. Yes.
457423 A. I don't remember.
457524 Q. Okay.
457625 A. The second time around?
45770177
4578 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4579 2 MR. TOMASIK: If he did, John, we would
4580 3 just like to get a copy.
4581 4 MR. ROSS: If there is something, we will
4582 5 get it to you. Before we go off the record, can we
4583 6 just make -- no questions, but this thing that the FBI
4584 7 gave us today, can we just make this the next exhibit
4585 8 number so I don't have to worry about producing it?
4586 9 MR. TOMASIK: This is the Department of
458710 Justice, FBI, Huntleigh Security Company Document
458811 Disclosure as of recent, and it will be marked.
458912 MR. ROSS: We got it this morning. It
459013 will be marked Exhibit 239.
459114 (Huntleigh security company
459215 document marked Exhibit 239.)
459316 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes today's
459417 deposition of William Thomas. Going off the record.
459518 The time is 12:38.
459619 (Deposition concluded.)
459720
459821
459922
460023
460124
460225
46030178
4604 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4605 2 E R R A T A S H E E T
4606 3 I, WILLIAM T. THOMAS, do hereby certify that I
4607 4 have read the foregoing transcript of my testimony, and
4608 5 further certify that it is a true and accurate record
4609 6 of my testimony (with the exception of the corrections
4610 7 listed below).
4611 8 PAGE LINE CORRECTION
4612 9 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461310 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461411 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461512 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461613 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461714 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461815 ____ ____ ______________________________________
461916 ____ ____ ______________________________________
462017 ____ ____ ______________________________________
462118 ____ ____ ______________________________________
462219 ____ ____ ______________________________________
462320 ____ ____ ______________________________________
462421 Signed under the pains and penalties this ________
462522 day of ___________________, 2006.
462623
462724 ___________________________
462825 WILLIAM T. THOMAS
46290179
4630 1 WILLIAM THOMAS - CONFIDENTIAL
4631 2 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
4632 3 SUFFOLK, SS.
4633 4 I, Janet M. McHugh, a Registered Merit Reporter
4634 5 and a Notary Public within and for the Commonwealth of
4635 6 Massachusetts do hereby certify:
4636 7 THAT WILLIAM T. THOMAS, the witness
4637 8 whose testimony is hereinbefore set forth, was
4638 9 duly sworn by me and that such testimony is a true and
463910 accurate record of my stenotype notes taken in the
464011 foregoing matter, to the best of my knowledge, skill and
464112 ability.
464213 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
464314 hand this 16th day of January, 2007.
464415
464516 _______________________
4646 JANET M. MCHUGH
464717 Notary Public
464818
464919 My Commission Expires:
465020 July 19, 2007
465121
465222
465323
465424
465525