P4tA1pgb

130/12/2015, 20:49 - D Tooth: So are we having a meeting on the 4 then? 
2
3230?
430/12/2015, 20:49 - J Malawana: Wait for all the nhse onslaught and 
5
6then go crazy :-)
730/12/2015, 20:50 - J Malawana: Yes Donna. Will need to be 2.30pm on 
8
94th to get the notice out by 4pm.
1030/12/2015, 20:50 - J Malawana: But it's not going to be longer than 
11
1210-15 minutes.
1330/12/2015, 20:50 - J Malawana: If we have made our mandate then fair 
14
15enough. If not then carry on.
1630/12/2015, 20:51 - J Malawana: But the mandate is clear. 7-7 and clear 
17
18punitive payment which has to be higher than the locum rate.
1930/12/2015, 20:51 - J Malawana: I assume that's the basic of what we 
20
21would accept.
2230/12/2015, 20:51 - J Malawana: Given the discussion.
2330/12/2015, 20:52 - J Malawana: We are going to push them on the 7-7 
24
25issue for the whole day.
2630/12/2015, 20:52 - J Malawana: From a Comms perspective it makes it 
27
28harder if they agree to our "safety" argument. So we need them to give 
29
30us a straight answer to the plain time issue first.
3130/12/2015, 21:03 - A Sami: Thank you, Johann. No problem at all. It 
32
33must be very busy for you. 
34
35I have changed my shift from day to late. So, I am OK for 14:30 (even 
36
37earlier if needed) but will have to leave at 16:00.
3830/12/2015, 21:42 - Z Greaves: Quick question off topic but anyone have 
39
40a copy of the T&Cs for foundation - have an f2 struggling to get leave 
41
42for interviews
4330/12/2015, 21:46 - M Redman: They on ukfpo website
4430/12/2015, 21:47 - M Redman: There's a tab like 'key documents'
4530/12/2015, 21:47 - M Redman: But I'm busy atm so can't send across.
4630/12/2015, 21:48 - M Redman: Though I recently checked and it's v 
47
48vague on intervirws
4930/12/2015, 22:22 - Z Greaves: Fab thanks x
5030/12/2015, 22:37 - A Sami: I cannot remember where I have read it but 
51
52it is within the T&Cs with reasonabke word somewhere.
53
54I advise my F2s to firward any email for interview as soon as they 
55
56receive it because sometimes it is one week or so. This to show that 
57
58the F2 has ket them know as soon as they knew about the interview
5930/12/2015, 23:10 - K Mohan: Isn't Paul Curran head of the DDRB? He got 
60
61a New Years honours today...
6230/12/2015, 23:24 - A Borbora: The geology guy isn't he?
63Everyone has their price
6431/12/2015, 11:47 - J Malawana: David can you send us a picture of your 
65
66IA gear :-)
6731/12/2015, 11:51 - A Collins: David is probably building a survival 
68
69shelter for IA?
7031/12/2015, 11:52 - J Malawana: David is my deflector. He is throwing 
71
72himself in front of a bus for the whole of JDC :-)
7331/12/2015, 11:52 - D Rouse: Lol git
7431/12/2015, 11:52 - A Collins: *and* chose a career in ED!!
7531/12/2015, 11:52 - J Malawana: We can nominate him for sainthood
7631/12/2015, 11:53 - J Malawana: Hee hee
7731/12/2015, 11:53 - A Collins: Perhaps for next year's NY honours?
7831/12/2015, 11:53 - A Collins: We could ask if Dave and Gideon could 
79
80present it as they are his heroes!!
8131/12/2015, 11:53 - D Rouse: Lol
82
83Sir Rouse
8431/12/2015, 11:54 - A Collins: "Arise Sir David of... Oh where does he 
85
86live? Someone fetch ones copy of the Sun, I'm sure it said in there!"
8731/12/2015, 11:54 - J Malawana: David please tell the rest of exec what 
88
89you told me. I am still crying at the idea of the sun chasing you 
90
91around
9231/12/2015, 11:55 - D Rouse: No :-(
9331/12/2015, 11:57 - M Redman: Did you say you'd Photoshop 'IA' out of 
94
95johann's opening statement therr?
96
97 If not, that's how I'm gonna get me some dirty money.
9831/12/2015, 11:59 - M Redman: Oops... That was meant to say  Photoshop 
99
100'IA' out  of Johann's opening statement and send it to the Sun...
101
102It's like when you forget the punch line of a joke. ??????
10331/12/2015, 12:01 - E McCourt: Sometimes I only remember the punchline 
104
105and not the joke...
10631/12/2015, 12:02 - A Borbora: I like the jokes in The Sun. ??
10731/12/2015, 12:02 - A Borbora: Not as much as The Mail, though
10831/12/2015, 12:04 - K Mohan: I have no idea what this conversation is 
109
110about.
11131/12/2015, 12:04 - A Collins: That's half the fun.
11231/12/2015, 12:05 - K Mohan: Not really. Just 20 whatsapp messages.
11301/01/2016, 01:02 - Z Greaves: Happy new year folks ??
11401/01/2016, 01:03 - M Redman: Happy New Year ??
11501/01/2016, 08:45 - A Sami: ??
11601/01/2016, 08:52 - C Bell: Happy New Year from Japan!
11701/01/2016, 09:18 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
11801/01/2016, 11:01 - J Malawana: Happy new year exec. Hope you all 
119
120behaved last night :-).
12101/01/2016, 12:46 - A Borbora: Happy new year! I turn 30 this year ??
12202/01/2016, 00:38 - L J Davis: Bless! Cheer you up, I'll be 41. It's 
123
124not all that bad...
12502/01/2016, 00:51 - D Rouse: Hey apologies. Had Phone issues :-( 
126
127working now though
12802/01/2016, 09:45 - M Redman: Johann has there been any more uptake for 
129
130the jdc updates?
13102/01/2016, 09:53 - J Malawana: Lol. No
13202/01/2016, 10:00 - K Mohan: I can phone in if you want. :)
13302/01/2016, 10:05 - J Malawana: No thanks.
13402/01/2016, 10:15 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
13502/01/2016, 10:17 - M Redman: Dawww... Well played, Noah, well 
136
137played...
13802/01/2016, 10:49 - D Tooth: Happy birthday amjad! Hope you're not 
139
140working xx
14102/01/2016, 11:51 - A Sami: Thank you, Donna! 
142Luckily, I am not after a week of nights.
14302/01/2016, 11:54 - D Tooth: Xx sounds lovely!
14402/01/2016, 12:45 - J Malawana: Happy birthday buddy.
14502/01/2016, 13:10 - A Sami: Thank you, boss!
14602/01/2016, 22:10 - E McCourt: <Media omitted>
14702/01/2016, 22:39 - C Castles: Happy birthday Amjad
14802/01/2016, 22:59 - A Sami: Thank you, Connan (and everyone who is 
149
150thinking to say happy birthday but too waorried to spam the group! ??
15102/01/2016, 23:17 - D Rouse: Happy birthday
15203/01/2016, 11:38 - A Sami: Thank you, David
15303/01/2016, 14:27 - D Rouse: Hello all just be carful. There are people 
154
155beginning to send pretty nasty emails around to JDC members and 
156
157officers. 
158
159Don't respond if you do get one (or more) of these delightful emails.  
160
161Just ignore them and let officers know.  
162
163Cheers
16403/01/2016, 14:36 - K Mohan: Could you expand on that please? It's kind 
165
166of cryptic. Who's sending emails and what do they say?
16703/01/2016, 14:37 - D Rouse: I've had a few nasty emails from random 
168
169members of the public. 
170
171I've just ignored them. I'm just saying if anyone else gets them if 
172
173just ignore them and let one of us know just incase this is a repeat 
174
175offender.
17603/01/2016, 14:37 - D Rouse: Not really cryptic
17703/01/2016, 14:38 - J Malawana: To be fair I am suspicious they maybe 
178
179just David's past catching up with him. But let's assume it's to do 
180
181with the contract :-)
18203/01/2016, 14:43 - H Carter: It wasn't clear whether you were 
183
184referring to the press or members of the public in your first message, 
185
186David. But that has now been clarified so thanks. If we were to ignore 
187
188or refer requests from the press to the wrong people (anybody but the 
189
190press team) then we run the risk of being 'unavailable for comment'.
19103/01/2016, 14:44 - D Rouse: Harry are you being cryptic there?
19203/01/2016, 14:45 - D Rouse: :-p
19303/01/2016, 14:45 - H Carter: Crystal clear, David. :-)
19403/01/2016, 14:45 - D Rouse: Thought so :-p
19503/01/2016, 14:46 - H Carter: I'm sorry you always seem to be at the 
196
197sharp end of abuse from the press and now members of the public.
19803/01/2016, 14:46 - J Malawana: I am unavailable to comment. I was too 
199
200busy guzzling my caviar and downing champagne whilst my house boy 
201
202fanned me
20303/01/2016, 14:46 - D Rouse: Is he good looking?
20403/01/2016, 14:46 - J Malawana: How is a man supposed to deal with 
205
206answering questions as well.
20703/01/2016, 14:47 - J Malawana: Rousey loves it. He is going to go on 
208
209I'm a celeb after this is all over :-)
21003/01/2016, 14:51 - A Borbora: Which house are you in?
21103/01/2016, 14:51 - A Borbora: Hard to know with a portfolio the size 
212
213of yours
21403/01/2016, 14:55 - J Malawana: Kitty's typing
21503/01/2016, 14:55 - J Malawana: God. The abuse is about to flow
21603/01/2016, 14:55 - K Mohan: Erm yes I am typing. How observant.
21703/01/2016, 14:55 - J Malawana: I live in fear every time i see the 
218
219words "kitty is typing"
22003/01/2016, 14:56 - K Mohan: Have other members of JDC received emails 
221
222so far (this time round) or just you, David? It's random that members 
223
224of the public are emailing.
22503/01/2016, 14:56 - J Malawana: I think they are searching the website 
226
227n
22803/01/2016, 14:56 - J Malawana: I think they were just emailing the 
229
230officers and anyone they can find on the website n
23103/01/2016, 14:56 - J Malawana: I am sure the rjdc chairs will start 
232
233getting abuse at some stage.
23403/01/2016, 14:56 - ?L Elliott: Was this from a comment somewhere or 
235
236genuinely just random.
23703/01/2016, 14:57 - K Mohan: Well at least the website is crap which 
238
239helps us.
24003/01/2016, 14:57 - J Malawana: It's apparently going to be in every 
241
242national newspaper tomorrow morning just to warn you all
24303/01/2016, 14:57 - K Mohan: What is?
24403/01/2016, 14:57 - J Malawana: The story about crisis talks etc.
24503/01/2016, 14:57 - K Mohan: Sorry but I'm struggling to understand 
246
247this. (I'm on call as well which isn't helping).
24803/01/2016, 14:58 - K Mohan: That's not really new though.
24903/01/2016, 14:58 - J Malawana: It actually helps. It starts the 
250
251pressure building. The DH are briefing out that they aren't budging.
25203/01/2016, 14:58 - J Malawana: We think
25303/01/2016, 14:58 - K Mohan: So we're the members of public from some 
254
255sort of group or organisation or patient reps or what? Or just randoms.
25603/01/2016, 14:59 - D Rouse: One was random
25703/01/2016, 14:59 - D Rouse: But they emailed twice
25803/01/2016, 14:59 - D Rouse: One appears to be from a group
25903/01/2016, 14:59 - K Mohan: Which group?
26003/01/2016, 14:59 - K Mohan: Have the other officers received emails?
26103/01/2016, 14:59 - D Rouse: Kitty
26203/01/2016, 14:59 - J Malawana: So far I have seen three. One is the 
263
264nut job from the Facebook group who isn't a doctor. I asked the admins 
265
266to remove him from the group so he is now send me abuse and copying in 
267
268the officers.
26903/01/2016, 15:00 - D Rouse: Are you saying this is fabricated
27003/01/2016, 15:00 - K Mohan: Huh what?
27103/01/2016, 15:00 - J Malawana: One is just a random guy that is 
272
273sending abuse
27403/01/2016, 15:00 - K Mohan: Who? Me?
27503/01/2016, 15:00 - J Malawana: One I think was just a doctor that was 
276
277asking a question.
27803/01/2016, 15:00 - K Mohan: That guy Ruhe emailed about yesterday?
27903/01/2016, 15:01 - J Malawana: Yes. Barakat.
28003/01/2016, 15:01 - K Mohan: Ok.
28103/01/2016, 15:01 - D Rouse: Mine sadly wasn't him
28203/01/2016, 15:01 - K Mohan: I'm not sure if David was asking if I'm 
283
284saying he's making stuff up?
28503/01/2016, 15:01 - J Malawana: I wouldn't normally ask the admins to 
286
287remove anyone but in his case he isn't a doctor and he is posting 
288
289patently false crap and incessantly to the point people couldn't 
290
291actually communicate. He was also targeting people personally.
29203/01/2016, 15:03 - E McCourt: Message overload: 1. Contracts situation 
293
294in press tomorrow 2. Officers getting angry emails from angry people. 
295
296Some random, some feature in FB group. 3. Everyone be vigilant. 4. 
297
298everyone go back to enjoying calm before the storm.
29903/01/2016, 15:03 - J Malawana: Perfect.
30003/01/2016, 15:05 - H Carter: Thank you, Ellen
30103/01/2016, 15:06 - H Carter: Johann this may sound like a stupid 
302
303question but knowing that the DH are briefing for tomorrow's papers, 
304
305are we doing counter-briefing?
30603/01/2016, 15:06 - H Carter: * omit 'doing'
30703/01/2016, 15:10 - J Malawana: We don't really need to right now.
30803/01/2016, 15:11 - J Malawana: It will maintain our ability to hold it 
309
310over them tomorrow.
31103/01/2016, 15:11 - J Malawana: After that it's going to be a total 
312
313shit storm anyway
31403/01/2016, 15:25 - K Mohan: Sorry to throw a slight curve ball into 
315
316the mix but are we/is the BMA supporting the march on the 9th? The 
317
318nurses bursary March. As in will there be a BMA presence/any 
319
320placards/people marching together etc? 
321
322I know there is a lot going on but is anyone organising this?
32303/01/2016, 15:26 - K Mohan: I've been asked a few times now
32403/01/2016, 15:29 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Basically there are a few docs 
325
326trying to organise a doctors block to show visible support. Would 
327
328hugely want the bma to gwt behind this.
32903/01/2016, 15:29 - Y Gourtsouyannis: They sean and lola mainly.
33003/01/2016, 15:29 - Y Gourtsouyannis: U will have seen them at the lrc 
331
332meeting.
33303/01/2016, 15:30 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Once the big announcements of 
334
335tmro happen we should get on this.
33603/01/2016, 15:30 - H Carter: Hi Kitty - I may be completely wrong but 
337
338I think Charlie may be speaking. Something similar to when I spoke at 
339
340the junior docs march. If he isn't then I would be happy to.
34103/01/2016, 15:30 - K Mohan: Lauren? Yes she's one of our south thames 
342
343psych trainees. I don't know Sean.
34403/01/2016, 15:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hes great. Vasc surgeon. 
345
346Consultant. U will recognise him.
34703/01/2016, 15:32 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Lauren indeed. She did the i 
348
349support junior docs tshirts with weswood
35003/01/2016, 15:32 - K Mohan: Great Harry. I was hoping you were going 
351
352to say that. 
353
354I just think we need to ensure the BMA is seen to be properly 
355
356supporting this and that "we stand united" etc etc
35703/01/2016, 15:36 - J Malawana: I was planning on going. I can request 
358
359the banner be dug out.
36003/01/2016, 15:37 - J Malawana: Harry could you ask as I am likely to 
361
362forget this week.
36303/01/2016, 15:37 - J Malawana: It's not exactly the best banner in the 
364
365world but itll do.
36603/01/2016, 15:38 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Danielle the organiser is just 
367
368waiting for us to get onboard in whatever way we feel appropriate. She 
369
370really is.
37103/01/2016, 15:38 - K Mohan: I'm going as is Sarah hallett and ruhe and 
372
373a few other south thames folk.
37403/01/2016, 15:39 - K Mohan: We can help with the banner etc as 
375
376helpful.
37703/01/2016, 15:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: We should put out a statement 
378
379inviting all docs to head along if possible
38003/01/2016, 15:40 - J Malawana: Yannis why don't you liaise with her on 
381
382behalf of JDC.
38303/01/2016, 15:40 - J Malawana: I mean exec.
38403/01/2016, 15:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Already am.
38503/01/2016, 15:40 - J Malawana: Just tell me what she needs us to do. 
386
387When etc
38803/01/2016, 15:41 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Perfect!
38903/01/2016, 15:41 - J Malawana: I thought I already did in my email?
39003/01/2016, 15:41 - J Malawana: I can happily do it again.
39103/01/2016, 15:41 - Y Gourtsouyannis: U did. Was good but a lottle 
392
393short.
39403/01/2016, 15:41 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Can do again to remind people
39503/01/2016, 15:41 - K Mohan: Yes Johann did that. Again would be good. 
396
397And realistically we can push with north and south thames as most 
398
399likely to come.
40003/01/2016, 15:41 - Y Gourtsouyannis: And put a little more detail
40103/01/2016, 15:42 - K Mohan: I think Yannis should ghost-write it for 
402
403you, Johann. Lol.
40403/01/2016, 15:43 - J Malawana: Yep.
40503/01/2016, 15:43 - J Malawana: Was about to say that.
40603/01/2016, 15:43 - J Malawana: Yannis write whatever you think 
407
408appropriate.
40903/01/2016, 15:43 - J Malawana: Send it over to me via email.
41003/01/2016, 15:43 - J Malawana: I will edit :-)
41103/01/2016, 15:43 - J Malawana: Don't try channeling me and not Anna 
412
413athow :-)
41403/01/2016, 15:44 - K Mohan: Put it lots of juicy bits, Yannis.
41503/01/2016, 15:44 - K Mohan: *In.
41603/01/2016, 15:46 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha!!
41703/01/2016, 15:46 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Happy too
41803/01/2016, 16:07 - H Carter: I'll make enquiries about the banner now 
419
420so I don't forget.
42103/01/2016, 16:10 - J Malawana: Thanks
42203/01/2016, 16:21 - J Malawana: So apparently the DH has been cut out 
423
424and no 10 are working directly on this. Nick seddon himself is now 
425
426briefing the employers to try and find a deal.
42703/01/2016, 16:22 - J Malawana: I don't think they will have a solution 
428
429but interesting it's only taken 4 months for Cameron to finally take 
430
431charge directly. Even if it's not public.
43203/01/2016, 16:23 - A Collier Not sure if Nick Seddon's involvement is 
433
434good for bad
43503/01/2016, 16:23 - A Collier 
436
437https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Seddon
43803/01/2016, 16:23 - J Malawana: Let's wait and see
43903/01/2016, 16:24 - J Malawana: The man is about as influential as they 
440
441come
44203/01/2016, 16:25 - M Redman: OMD. JOHANN, YOU HAVE YOUR OWN WIKI PAGE
44303/01/2016, 16:25 - J Malawana: So unlocking government is entirely 
444
445about getting to him. A certain prominent Tory told me once that even 
446
447they couldn't get to him
44803/01/2016, 16:25 - J Malawana: They had to wait three months for an 
449
450appointment and he often cancelled as they aren't important enough.
45103/01/2016, 16:25 - J Malawana: So let's see whether he can actually 
452
453deliver.
45403/01/2016, 16:26 - J Malawana: Yes melody. I saw that. It's one of 
455
456Yannis' mates I heard.
45703/01/2016, 16:27 - J Malawana: I assumed it was another CCHQ attempt 
458
459at doing some nasty shit. But turns out it's a hard left activist. Not 
460
461sure what I did to piss him off. :-) b
46203/01/2016, 16:30 - K Mohan: Sarah must love the wiki page. :)
46303/01/2016, 16:32 - K Mohan: I'm sure it's just one of the "joh-fans" 
464
465expressing their love.
46603/01/2016, 16:36 - J Malawana: She hates it.
46703/01/2016, 16:36 - J Malawana: Hates it with a passion.
46803/01/2016, 16:36 - J Malawana: If she knew how the Internet worked she 
469
470would be writing shit all over it.
47103/01/2016, 16:37 - J Malawana: It's taking all her self control not to 
472
473write on that Facebook group that I am a pillock.
47403/01/2016, 16:38 - K Mohan: I'm always happy to be her ghost-writer on 
475
476that subject. I'll send her a text to suggest it. ;)
47703/01/2016, 16:38 - J Malawana: I don't understand. I suggested that it 
478
479would be a real demonstration of love if she changed her profile 
480
481picture to the one of me as an angel on the tree. For some reason she 
482
483didn't engage in that discussion. Lots of under her breath comments and 
484
485babbling.
48603/01/2016, 16:39 - K Mohan: This is why we love Sarah the best. 
487
488Although Noah comes a pretty close second.
48903/01/2016, 18:37 - L Boyle: Just a mere 124 messages this pm?
49003/01/2016, 18:37 - L Boyle: Quiet for a Sunday on here...
49103/01/2016, 18:46 - D Rouse: Quiet before the storm
49203/01/2016, 18:49 - A Collins: We could perhaps discuss the lack of 
493
494discussion for a bit to bolster the numbers?
49503/01/2016, 18:50 - L Boyle: ??
49603/01/2016, 22:15 - L J Davis: You are all crazy ppl (127 msgs). I had 
497
498a zoo to visit this afternoon. Calm before the storm, indeed.
49903/01/2016, 22:16 - J Malawana: This Chris day whistleblowing issue.
50003/01/2016, 22:17 - J Malawana: Any actual objection to discussing at 
501
502the next normal JDC meeting. Not the case but the issue.
50303/01/2016, 22:17 - J Malawana: I genuinely am perplexed by where this 
504
505has all come from.
50603/01/2016, 22:18 - J Malawana: Anyone any wiser or more informed about 
507
508this. Have to admit with everything else going on its one of those 
509
510things I just didn't have on radar.
51103/01/2016, 22:32 - J Malawana: Did everyone get the steering group 
512
513meeting email I sent.
51403/01/2016, 22:32 - M Redman: Yes got the email.
51503/01/2016, 22:32 - M Redman: No objection, think it does need 
516
517discussing but not as pressing
51803/01/2016, 22:39 - A Sami: Chris has got a website to explain his 
519
520personal case.
521
522Www.54000doctors.org
523
524The implication of his appeal hearing in February can have potential 
525
526significant implications for junior doctors when raising concerns. It 
527
528might set unfavouravle precedent, from my limited understanding.
529
530I have informed my local GMC liasing officer to check what the GMC 
531
532think of this is case as it might prove difficult tlfor doctors to 
533
534follow their guidance in9 raising concerns as a junior doctor.
535
536I believe it worth discussing it, even if briefly, due to time pressure 
537
538(appeal in February)
539
540Needless to say, please consider supporting him financially as this 
541
542could happen to any of us and the case has implication as stated above.
543
544Amjad
54503/01/2016, 22:42 - C Castles: I haven't got an email - when was it 
546
547sent?
54803/01/2016, 22:42 - M Redman: 2nd Jan 16:23
54903/01/2016, 22:43 - L J Davis: Am had, do you know Chris personally? It 
550
551sounds like you may have helpful insight...
55203/01/2016, 22:43 - C Castles: Oh right, I thought you meant an email 
553
554this evening
55503/01/2016, 22:44 - K Mohan: The issue re Chris day is being discussed 
556
557at council I think which is before JDC. So we should be clearer then?
55803/01/2016, 22:46 - C Bell: Are tc details coming out later?
55903/01/2016, 22:46 - M Redman: Yeah secretariat sending em out mane
56003/01/2016, 22:46 - L J Davis: (Sorry; autocorrect - should have said 
561
562Amjad not Am had!!!) ??
56303/01/2016, 22:48 - C Bell: Cool thanks
56403/01/2016, 22:48 - A Sami: LJD, no, I don't know him personally. But I 
565
566feel for his situation. I appreciate that there two sides to each story 
567
568and there is the truth. 
569
570The appeal can potentially render all of us vulnerable if we need to 
571
572raise concerns. 
573
574(Autocorrect ??)
575
576Kitty, Thank you. We look forward to the Council's 
577
578statement/conclusion.
57903/01/2016, 22:49 - J Malawana: Ok well let's add it to the agenda for 
580
581the next normal JDC meeting.
58203/01/2016, 22:52 - K Mohan: I very much doubt they will be any 
583
584statement or conclusion. Council doesn't really reach conclusions. :) 
585
586More likely to be a confidential update but will ask what (regarding 
587
588the issue) can be shared.
58903/01/2016, 22:53 - J Malawana: I don't want to know about the case. 
590
591The issue though probably can be talked about.
59203/01/2016, 22:54 - J Malawana: Council as usual is only bothered about 
593
594the thing that we can't actually talk about and is a way of beating the 
595
596organisation with.
59703/01/2016, 22:54 - J Malawana: I lose the will to live sometimes when 
598
599I listen to council debates. And I have only been to two of those 
600
601meetings.
60203/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: :) yay. So yeah we'd totally recommend you 
603
604all stand for council... That's what Johann means.
60503/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: Lol
60603/01/2016, 22:55 - A Sami: The hearing of the appeal is in Feb. The 
607
608Council will be in Jan before JDC (as per Kitty)
609
610I feel we have a stake here as junior doctors (not as BMA) to consider 
611
612the potential implications of this appeal case (if any) on us and the 
613
614rest of the junior doctors in the future when it comes to raising 
615
616concerns.
617
618I don't if we need to touch on it on our meeting on the 18th (after the 
619
620council's update and before the appeal) to consider it before the judge 
621
622jas its say
623
624or it is better to leave till March (after the appeal, whatever its 
625
626outcome is)
627
628Up to you and JDC I guess.
62903/01/2016, 22:55 - L J Davis: Issue with whistleblowing & deanery & 
630
631juniors sounds like something Jdc should be discussing.
63203/01/2016, 22:55 - J Malawana: That's why I want juniors to stand. I 
633
634want to sweep the decks.
63503/01/2016, 22:55 - J Malawana: Let's actually get a good proportion of 
636
637juniors in there and clear decks.
63803/01/2016, 22:55 - K Mohan: Stop putting everyone off then!
63903/01/2016, 22:55 - L J Davis: That'll be entertaining Johann
64003/01/2016, 22:56 - J Malawana: I am not. But bloody hell.
64103/01/2016, 22:56 - J Malawana: Ok. Will stop.
64203/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: We really could make it happen.
64303/01/2016, 22:56 - J Malawana: I know. I will push it again next week 
644
645when the nominations open.
64603/01/2016, 22:56 - J Malawana: We need as many juniors as possible 
647
648standing.
64903/01/2016, 22:57 - K Mohan: I know. Anyone thinking of standing for 
650
651council should not talk to tom dolphin. He'll put you off in 3 seconds. 
652
653Poss sooner.
65403/01/2016, 22:57 - J Malawana: Lol
65503/01/2016, 22:58 - L J Davis: I'll stand :) even if it's just to see 
656
657if I can get more votes than hajioff ;)
65803/01/2016, 23:05 - J Malawana: Ok Aaron will present something to next 
659
660JDC meeting on the whistleblowing case. He is our medico-legal 
661
662committee rep so best placed to work up a paper on the issues and 
663
664present to JDC.
66503/01/2016, 23:07 - H Carter: I think there's a report coming to 
666
667Council, too.
66803/01/2016, 23:35 - H Carter: A well placed 'outing' of Nick Seddon as 
669
670being directly involved on the Govt side....
67103/01/2016, 23:35 - H Carter: 
672
673http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/03/government-offer-
674
675junior-doctors-strike
67604/01/2016, 00:00 - J Malawana: Lol
67704/01/2016, 00:01 - J Malawana: The employers apparently have let it 
678
679slip and now everyone is denying it like crazy.
68004/01/2016, 00:01 - J Malawana: Someone is going to be in trouble.
68104/01/2016, 00:15 - D Rouse: How on earth does a degree in English. 
682
683Even if it is from Cambridge make him an expert on health and social 
684
685care
68604/01/2016, 00:16 - D Rouse: I find the SpAd thing cronyism in the most 
687
688distasteful way
68904/01/2016, 00:19 - H Carter: He tweeted stuff like this before he 
690
691worked for the PM:
69204/01/2016, 00:20 - D Rouse: Don't care if he did
69304/01/2016, 00:20 - H Carter: <Media omitted>
69404/01/2016, 00:20 - D Rouse: Sorry but it's the who you know and not 
695
696what you know
69704/01/2016, 00:22 - H Carter: Don't apologise, David.
69804/01/2016, 00:22 - H Carter: I'm not disagreeing.
69904/01/2016, 00:27 - J Malawana: It's alright, once you do your 
700
701photoshoot for the sun, you will be one of those who's people want to 
702
703know :-)
70404/01/2016, 03:28 - A Collins: Teehee
70504/01/2016, 07:26 - B Roberts: I have no idea what you're on about, I 
706
707seem not to be receiving any e-mails...
70804/01/2016, 07:26 - B Roberts: I'll see what I can do about TCing in 
709
710today - might be stuck in the wilderness on a house call but if not, I 
711
712will call in if I actually receive the details!
71304/01/2016, 09:31 - A Collins: I'll likely be busy, but if I'm free 
714
715I'll call. If not my vote would be to support what the negotiators 
716
717think they need
71804/01/2016, 10:13 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ive just seen the msgs. Let me 
719
720knw when tc goes ahead.
72104/01/2016, 11:02 - D Tooth: I'm in a spa so will do my best to VC or 
722
723tc
72404/01/2016, 11:17 - L J Davis: That's not a small corner shop type one 
725
726is it Donna? Caused endless amusement some years ago when I said I'd 
727
728like spa vouchers when Tim asked what I wanted for Christmas...
72904/01/2016, 11:26 - D Tooth: Ha ha!! No not that sort!! A lovely sort. 
730
731Hopefully speak to you all later xx
73204/01/2016, 11:43 - M Redman: Ive managed to get out of clinic from 
733
7341430-1500, so hopefully we'll meet between then ??. Failing that... 
735
736Ditto what Collins said!
73704/01/2016, 11:56 - Z Greaves: I've lost the original message in all 
738
739the talk of spas and the mirror! What time and what tc?
74004/01/2016, 12:04 - L J Davis: Don't think a time was set.
74104/01/2016, 12:04 - L J Davis: From 2.30pm was last I heard...
74204/01/2016, 12:05 - M Redman: Johann's email on 2nd asked us to be free 
743
744from 1430 and that dispute cmte meeting 1500.
745Nil new since then.
746No Tc deets yet
74704/01/2016, 12:19 - J Malawana: I think we are going to have a very 
748
749short meeting as they are so far away from us and Saturday is 
750
751definitely all still plain time. So much else is actually shit. So get 
752
753ready for a short meeting at 2.30pm.
75404/01/2016, 12:21 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
75504/01/2016, 12:22 - K Mohan: Erm sorry I should have just done a screen 
756
757grab. Clearly I'm concentrating too hard on work at the moment.
75804/01/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: Stay calm negotiators... :)
759
760And I really hope our press releases will be ready to go immediately as 
761
762I have no doubt the DH will try and pre-empt any decision and get to 
763
764the media first.
76504/01/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: (Once dispute committee meets I mean).
76604/01/2016, 12:24 - J Malawana: Working on it now.
76704/01/2016, 14:33 - H Carter: I'm on the phone.
76804/01/2016, 14:33 - A Sami: Me too
76904/01/2016, 14:34 - L J Davis: & me
77004/01/2016, 14:35 - L J Davis: Well. Handy they've put it in a 
771
772statement
77304/01/2016, 14:35 - L J Davis: We can publish
77404/01/2016, 14:35 - L J Davis: Or, rather, link to them lots
77504/01/2016, 14:37 - C Castles: Finally joined
77604/01/2016, 14:40 - L J Davis: ??????
77704/01/2016, 14:41 - L Boyle: Thanks for the update Johann & Aaron
77804/01/2016, 14:48 - L J Davis: I've decided I like an asda roll-back 
779
780more than an nhse roll-back.
78104/01/2016, 14:49 - Y Gourtsouyannis: At work and having trouble 
782
783getting thru to get update. When someone gets a mo and when appropriate 
784
785would b great to have a brief 2 sentence update...thanks.
78604/01/2016, 14:51 - K Mohan: The recommendation now is going to 
787
788disputes that IA back on as agreed the other day. We're not to say 
789
790anything to anyone at all yet.
791
792Johann will post on JDC listserver and tell us what we can say when to 
793
794whom.
79504/01/2016, 14:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Thanks kitty. All needed to knw.
79604/01/2016, 15:23 - A Collins: Can anyone link to the statement?
79704/01/2016, 15:29 - E McCourt: Which statement?
79804/01/2016, 15:29 - K Mohan: There is no statement yet j think?
79904/01/2016, 15:30 - A Collins: Oh sorry I read LJ's comment about 
800
801"them" having put it in a statement and thought DH had been blabbing 
802
803early.
80404/01/2016, 15:33 - L J Davis: Nah; statement to us, I expect? Johann 
805
806mentioned it...
80704/01/2016, 15:34 - L J Davis: Just amazed they've put anything in 
808
809writing. We *must* get that out there...
81004/01/2016, 15:35 - K Mohan: I think it's going to be hard for those 
811
812not on the phone to work out the details as it does sound like we have 
813
814various statements flying about. Best wait for Johann's update I think.
81504/01/2016, 15:41 - A Borbora: There will be statements etc sent around 
816
8174pm
81804/01/2016, 15:42 - D Rouse: Aaron
81904/01/2016, 15:43 - D Rouse: Can I call u
82004/01/2016, 15:44 - E McCourt: Call me
82104/01/2016, 15:58 - A Borbora: 4.25 for statements, comms &etc
82204/01/2016, 16:29 - K Mohan: BMA website has gone a little weird. Maybe 
823
824they are changing the front page or something...
82504/01/2016, 16:30 - K Mohan: Or maybe it is "preparing to crash"
82604/01/2016, 16:32 - C Castles: Has email gone out?
82704/01/2016, 16:33 - A Borbora: In the system but don't say anything yet 
828
829please
83004/01/2016, 16:34 - ?L Elliott: Being a bit slow isn't it... Twitter is 
831
832already going mental with all sorts of rumours
83304/01/2016, 16:35 - C Castles: Don't worry, I'm waiting. Just 
834
835remembered that if it is an email to junior members, then I won't get 
836
837it
83804/01/2016, 16:35 - C Castles: Is this one being sent to jdc?
83904/01/2016, 16:36 - K Mohan: Twitter is amusing me at the moment. 
840
841People are actually crazy. (It's ok they'll start pissing me off in a 
842
843minute and then the natural order will be restored.
84404/01/2016, 16:36 - K Mohan: Yes I think so Conan
84504/01/2016, 16:37 - C Castles: Grand, thanks
84604/01/2016, 16:37 - C Bell: If it's going out to juniors, usual story 
847
848can it please go to students too
84904/01/2016, 16:37 - C Bell: Tho I presume it's gonna go bma wide
85004/01/2016, 16:38 - A Borbora: You need to speak to comms about that 
851
852Charlie - ensure it's done
85304/01/2016, 16:38 - C Bell: Harry can you please? I'm about to lose 
854
855signal
85604/01/2016, 16:39 - H Carter: Yeah
85704/01/2016, 16:39 - H Carter: To Jo?
85804/01/2016, 16:39 - C Bell: Yeh I presume so
85904/01/2016, 16:39 - C Bell: They should be doing it anyway now as a 
860
861matter of course
86204/01/2016, 16:40 - K Mohan: Out on JDC listserver
86304/01/2016, 16:40 - A Borbora: Press release has gone
86404/01/2016, 16:40 - K Mohan: Can we post now,.
86504/01/2016, 16:40 - K Mohan: Presumably yes
86604/01/2016, 16:41 - H Carter: Can we tweet wtv??
86704/01/2016, 16:41 - H Carter: Just say yes somebody
86804/01/2016, 16:42 - A Borbora: Yes
86904/01/2016, 16:42 - A Borbora: You can share
87004/01/2016, 16:43 - A Borbora: Email to members and a text to them are 
871
872in train
87304/01/2016, 16:48 - C Castles: Have we a link to press release?
87404/01/2016, 16:49 - E McCourt: http://oneprofession.bma.org.uk
87504/01/2016, 16:51 - C Castles: Thanks Ellen
87604/01/2016, 16:52 - E McCourt: 
877
878http://web.bma.org.uk/pressrel.nsf/wall/FF8D8D490C054E6880257F30005B23D
879
880A
88104/01/2016, 16:52 - E McCourt: This too
88204/01/2016, 16:55 - L J Davis: Unfortunate background photo; she looks 
883
884far too cheerful...
88504/01/2016, 16:55 - L J Davis: Is it possible to change?
88604/01/2016, 16:56 - ?L Elliott: On the BMA website? She doesn't look 
887
888cheerful she's shouting!
88904/01/2016, 16:57 - L J Davis: On my mobile she looks very happy!
89004/01/2016, 16:57 - ?L Elliott: Maybe cos the words are all over her 
891
892face on laptop photo
89304/01/2016, 16:58 - L J Davis: ?? that might explain it!
89404/01/2016, 17:01 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
89504/01/2016, 17:02 - K Mohan: I don't think it matters that much tbh. 
896
897Compared to, well, everything else going on.
89804/01/2016, 17:59 - ?L Elliott: The text sent out is quite misleading 
899
900-'junior doctor contract talks end.' They haven't ended...
90104/01/2016, 18:00 - E McCourt: We're trying to sort this out
90204/01/2016, 18:00 - E McCourt: Incl on the website...
90304/01/2016, 18:02 - ?L Elliott: Oh no. Should be right first time 
904
905rather than you guys trying to sort it after its gone out.
90604/01/2016, 18:02 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
90704/01/2016, 18:13 - A Borbora: There have been discussions about ACAS 
908
909and they said they wanted to go back there which we've agreed to
91004/01/2016, 18:16 - Z Greaves: That's good :)
91104/01/2016, 18:17 - K Mohan: We're going back to ACAS!?! Seriously. 
912
913When is that going to be announced.
91404/01/2016, 18:19 - M Redman: We can't not agree, can we. but, omd...!
91504/01/2016, 18:19 - A Borbora: Johann is going to brief us all in the 
916
917forthcoming days
91804/01/2016, 18:19 - K Mohan: I'm also confused. The point of acas was 
919
920to get us to the point of negotiating. We've negotiated and not close 
921
922together on key issues. So we're going back to Acas. In the hope of... 
923
924We're just going round in circles though.
92504/01/2016, 18:20 - K Mohan: Presumably they are back at acas tomorrow 
926
927though?
92804/01/2016, 18:21 - ?L Elliott: Nice to hear it on Twitter first!
92904/01/2016, 18:22 - K Mohan: Agree Lottie. Although I'm not convinced 
930
931this is a smart move on our part.
93204/01/2016, 18:22 - Z Greaves: Can we take a particular single issue to 
933
934acas ie plain time? Didn't think that was how they worked?
93504/01/2016, 18:24 - A Borbora: Yes you can take single issues to them. 
936Politically it's hard to refuse an offer to seek conciliation
93704/01/2016, 18:25 - L J Davis: Yes. But I'm concerned that this offer 
938
939didn't get mentioned to exec
94004/01/2016, 18:26 - L J Davis: Has it only just been made?
94104/01/2016, 18:26 - L J Davis: Also... 15 out of 16 key points? Really?
94204/01/2016, 18:27 - K Mohan: As long as we see this for what it 
943
944undoubtedly is: a way to spin this out beyond our mandate expiry date. 
945
946I predict they will offer us (at best) the consultant offer of 7-9 
947
948Monday to Friday the night before our IA. Juniors are going to be 
949
950preparing for this to be pulled at the last minute again (when they 
951
952hear from acas). I'll be amazed if regionally people really gear up for 
953
954IA this time.
95504/01/2016, 18:28 - L Boyle: Must not return to ACAS for more messing 
956
957around - agree with Kitty's assessment of this.
95804/01/2016, 18:28 - K Mohan: Well it appears we are, Luke.
95904/01/2016, 18:29 - L J Davis: Ok. Strikes me we need a really co-
960
961ordinated plan; is Acas on the table & how do we manage that from a 
962
963regional organising IA perspective?
96404/01/2016, 18:33 - M Redman: I think we just need to convince people 
965
966that 
967A) we wouldn't cancel IA without significant movement
968B) if IA did get cancelled, that would be a success
969C) if we don't put 100% into planning strikes, then the govt will have 
970
971upper hand, and we cannot underestimate the consequences
97204/01/2016, 18:34 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I 100% share Kitty's concerns r.e 
973
974ACAS. Key thing is not to let the process screw us.
97504/01/2016, 18:35 - Y Gourtsouyannis: There is no logical sense in 
976
977returning to ACAS. Anyway, wont say more. Lets get moving! See u in 
978
979North Thames tmro Johann.
98004/01/2016, 18:44 - C Castles: As much as Hugh pym channelling jh for 
981
982us seems to pass for the other side speaking to us these days , can we 
983
984get confirmation of what exactly has been offered?
98504/01/2016, 18:44 - K Mohan: I don't disagree Melody. But will the 
986
987wider and "higher" BMA put the effort into out planned IA if we're back 
988
989in ACAS. Do we have those fork assurances? Comms/chief officers/policy 
990
991director/our own secretariat?
99204/01/2016, 18:47 - M Redman: Good questions, Kitty!
99304/01/2016, 18:48 - K Mohan: (Fork = firm) clearly my iPhone is hungry.
99404/01/2016, 18:57 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
99504/01/2016, 19:02 - L Boyle: The only thing the membership will see is 
996
997us dancing like fools to Jeremy Hunt's tune if we go back to ACAS 
998
999again. Let's crack on with the IA!
100004/01/2016, 19:03 - L Boyle: Can't believe this is even being 
1001
1002contemplated
100304/01/2016, 19:04 - C Castles: Can someone please confirm what exactly 
1004
1005has been said about acas?
100604/01/2016, 19:28 - L J Davis: Channel 4
100704/01/2016, 19:28 - L J Davis: JH.
100804/01/2016, 19:28 - L J Davis: Now
100904/01/2016, 19:29 - L J Davis: Seems to think it's just about pay on 
1010
1011extra hours...
101204/01/2016, 19:30 - L J Davis: Which is an interesting line to take.
101304/01/2016, 19:31 - L J Davis: Not 7 day services...
101404/01/2016, 19:31 - L J Davis: (Which is what I'd have picked if I were 
1015
1016him)
101704/01/2016, 19:47 - K Mohan: Have you guys see this -it's on twitter. 
1018
1019http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Documents/Need%20to
1020
1021%20know/Letter%20from%20Danny%20Mortimer%20to%20SofS%20040116-Final.pdf
102204/01/2016, 19:51 - E McCourt: There are one or two or several 
1023
1024deviations from the truth...
102504/01/2016, 19:52 - K Mohan: Btw thanks for replying to the acas stuff 
1026
1027on the listserver Ellen but I'm going to reply back here to avoid 
1028
1029offending anyone. Could someone answer my question about how this will 
1030
1031be explained to the membership/ESP to keep them on board with planning 
1032
1033for IA/how far the wider BMA will help us plan for IA since we're in 
1034
1035acas (ESP at a staff level)- and most importantly seeing the decision 
1036
1037is obviously already been made - WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO TELL JDC?!
103804/01/2016, 19:54 - K Mohan: The letter is also now on the FB forum of 
1039
1040doom. Unsurprisingly.
104104/01/2016, 19:54 - E McCourt: I will defer to Johann re. Comms...
104204/01/2016, 19:55 - K Mohan: And the chief officers/senior management 
1043
1044team and our own secretariat please. :)
104504/01/2016, 20:11 - L J Davis: Offending because the listserver goes to 
1046
1047staff & chief officers...
104804/01/2016, 20:14 - L J Davis: My issue is that they could agree to 
1049
1050EVERYTHING we ever wanted at Acas. We cancel IA. They then don't agree, 
1051
1052actually, after all. So pointless?
105304/01/2016, 20:14 - K Mohan: Not chief officers they aren't on or 
1054
1055listserver. But our secretariat yes. I'm not trying to offend just to 
1056
1057understand the challenges ahead and which are coming from within the 
1058
1059BMA rather then outside.
106004/01/2016, 20:16 - A Collier On a media front we need to tackle the 15 
1061
1062of 16 issues. It will become the new "non-negotiable 22" but this time 
1063
1064will work against us.
106504/01/2016, 20:17 - A Collier Could one of the negotiators clarify what 
1066
1067the 16 issues are meant to be?
106804/01/2016, 20:18 - K Mohan: Did we really suggest more pay for those 
1069
1070working non res who have caring responsibilities compared to those who 
1071
1072don't? I presume not.
107304/01/2016, 20:20 - A Collier I think Johann mentioned they did as a 
1074
1075straw man argument.
107604/01/2016, 20:21 - K Mohan: I might steal me a child.
107704/01/2016, 20:21 - A Collier I'm rather concerned that some of the 
1078
1079outlandish straw men arguments that our team put forward are going to 
1080
1081be thrown back in our face.
108204/01/2016, 20:21 - D Rouse: #spermbank
108304/01/2016, 20:22 - D Rouse: Or fertility choice clinics
108404/01/2016, 20:22 - D Rouse: As they're called
108504/01/2016, 20:22 - K Mohan: I meant an actual child rather than 
1086
1087wishing any desire to be pregnant. I might borrow my niece for on-
1088
1089calls.
109004/01/2016, 20:23 - L J Davis: Kitty, you can borrow Nathan any time...
109104/01/2016, 20:23 - A Collier The extreme positions put forward by our 
1092
1093team in one of the negotiating meetings will be used against us.
109404/01/2016, 20:23 - K Mohan: Aw. He's my second choice.
109504/01/2016, 20:23 - K Mohan: Yeah I agree Andrew.
109604/01/2016, 20:24 - L J Davis: They mentioned London weighting too...
109704/01/2016, 20:26 - K Mohan: London weighting is agreed at staff 
1098
1099council so that's going nowhere unless he DDRB recommends and the govt 
1100
1101agrees.
110204/01/2016, 20:27 - M Redman: It is not supposed to REDUCE other 
1103
1104people's salaries though. Right?
110504/01/2016, 20:27 - K Mohan: Any that's not relevant really. Having 
1106
1107been up most of sat night whilst working non res this weekend I defy 
1108
1109anyone me to tell me my weekend was not ruined. Or that it was less 
1110
1111ruined than if I had caring responsibilities.
111204/01/2016, 20:27 - A Collier But in a cost neutral environment it 
1113
1114would reduce the pay of others.
1115
1116These are clear divide and conquer tactics by them. 
1117
1118However I think our team's 'reductio ad absurdum' argument may have 
1119
1120been unwise
112104/01/2016, 20:30 - K Mohan: Basically this is all well and good (or 
1122
1123not) but we need a proper strategy otherwise we're going to be in acas 
1124
1125forever or taking IA forever. We need to have an exit strategy or way 
1126
1127to use Acas/IA to get whatever it is we want that would make us stop 
1128
1129taking IA until we retire.
113004/01/2016, 20:30 - A Collier I completely agree, an exit strategy/end 
1131
1132game is a must.
113304/01/2016, 20:37 - K Mohan: Aw. The letter from Jeremy 
1134
1135https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/fi
1136
1137le/489418/SoS_to_Mark_Porter.pdf "eye roll"
113804/01/2016, 20:38 - M Redman: "Any strike action risks serious harm to 
1139
1140patients so I am grateful that you have 
1141
1142accepted our proposal to return to ACAS. To facilitate further 
1143
1144constructive 
1145
1146discussion, I have appointed one of our most respected Trust Chief 
1147
1148Executives, 
1149
1150Sir David Dalton, to take negotiations forward with ACAS on behalf of 
1151
1152the 
1153
1154NHS and the Government."
115504/01/2016, 20:38 - M Redman: So he's told people we're going to acas 
1156
1157before we have... ??
115804/01/2016, 20:39 - K Mohan: Why does that surprise you Melody? :)
1159
1160Isn't Mark away at the moment (or is he back now). Who is going to ACAS 
1161
1162if he's away?
116304/01/2016, 20:39 - M Redman: Let's send yannis
116404/01/2016, 20:40 - K Mohan: I just loled.
116504/01/2016, 20:44 - J Malawana: I will write when I get home.
116604/01/2016, 20:44 - J Malawana: But don't get too over concerned in the 
1167
1168acas rubbish.
116904/01/2016, 20:44 - J Malawana: We need to play the political game of 
1170
1171always looking reasonable.
117204/01/2016, 20:45 - J Malawana: It doesn't mean we need to spend as 
1173
1174much time on acas as we did last time.
117504/01/2016, 20:46 - J Malawana: We simply need to state clearly our 
1176
1177position publicly. We are working up a detailed position paper. That 
1178
1179will feed the masses and then we have something for everyone to attack 
1180
1181the other side
118204/01/2016, 20:56 - J Malawana: Here is the letter I wrote to Danny 
1183
1184Mortimer at 4pm today in response to his position statement which was 
1185
1186extremely inflammatory that he gave us at 11am. 
1187
1188http://oneprofessionbmaorguk.c.presscdn.com/wp-
1189
1190content/uploads/2016/01/Dr-Johann-Malawana-to-Danny-Mortimer-4-Jan.pdf
119104/01/2016, 20:56 - K Mohan: Will the paper be coming to exec/the 
1192
1193steering group when drafted?
1194
1195Also, will someone be working on the overall strategy (like the exit 
1196
1197strategy) and can that be shared also to exec
119804/01/2016, 20:57 - J Malawana: The statement will go out first thing 
1199
1200in the morning as its a statement in line with execs positions and what 
1201
1202we presented to the other side.
120304/01/2016, 20:58 - K Mohan: Is your letter public?
120404/01/2016, 20:58 - J Malawana: We want it up in the morning. So that 
1205
1206it's all over the press tomorrow. No point tonight at this time as no 
1207
1208one is listening.
120904/01/2016, 20:58 - J Malawana: Yes. The link above.
121004/01/2016, 20:58 - J Malawana: Have tweeted it.
121104/01/2016, 21:13 - K Mohan: Johann, can got speak to Roshana. She's 
1212
1213getting stressed that we're not putting anything out tonight and she 
1214
1215and Dagan are whipping more and more of south thames up about it.
121604/01/2016, 21:13 - K Mohan: Can you even...
121704/01/2016, 21:14 - D Rouse: Why is roshana in a stress about it?
121804/01/2016, 21:16 - K Mohan: Because they think our position 
1219
1220statement/reasons for why we're taking is should be out now. Her 
1221
1222journalist friends are asking for it.
1223
1224I think a "10 reasons why we're taking IA again" would be useful.
122504/01/2016, 21:16 - A Collier Because there is a significant proportion 
1226
1227of juniors who are craving info and right now we're not satiating that 
1228
1229need.
123004/01/2016, 21:17 - M Redman: Johanns letter our statement would be out 
1231
1232by end of night, can we tell her that?
123304/01/2016, 21:17 - M Redman: Letter ^said^ our
123404/01/2016, 21:18 - K Mohan: Our reps are saying they don't want to 
1235
1236speak to other juniors until they can answer the question why we're 
1237
1238taking IA and what we're trying to achieve by IA.
123904/01/2016, 21:18 - A Collier By now tomorrow's early newspaper edition 
1240
1241will now have gone to print. Though I understand the plan to delay the 
1242
1243release of info until tomorrow I have to say I don't agree with it.
124404/01/2016, 21:18 - J Malawana: We wanted to give that to Danny to show 
1245
1246we were negotiating in good faith.
124704/01/2016, 21:18 - J Malawana: He decided to go public.
124804/01/2016, 21:19 - K Mohan: But if you explain that (or say something) 
1249
1250publicly even if yet put out the statement tomorrow it will help.
125104/01/2016, 21:19 - J Malawana: So now we can out the fact hunt is 
1252
1253lying
125404/01/2016, 21:19 - J Malawana: I know. Will do when I get home.
125504/01/2016, 21:19 - J Malawana: I am just on a train.
125604/01/2016, 21:19 - J Malawana: Will satiate the masses as much as 
1257
1258possible.
125904/01/2016, 21:19 - A Collier Lying on which particular issue, if we 
1260
1261are to make that accusation we have to be 100% sure
126204/01/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: Sure. But if you have the will, just try 
1263
1264to quash Roshana. She's really whipping my folk up. If you could get 
1265
1266her to STFU I'd appreciate it.
126704/01/2016, 21:20 - J Malawana: He says in his letter that they gave us 
1268
1269their position over the weekend. Danny Mortimer actually sent it to us 
1270
1271at 11am this morning. That's why we didn't have a lot of talking.
127204/01/2016, 21:20 - J Malawana: It was 9 pages of inflammatory rubbish.
127304/01/2016, 21:21 - A Collier Good, so long as we're should
127404/01/2016, 21:21 - J Malawana: Will update everything and ensure that 
1275
1276is heavily pushed.
127704/01/2016, 21:23 - D Rouse: Cool
127804/01/2016, 21:23 - K Mohan: "9 pages of inflammation rubbish". 
1279
1280I'm getting an awful sense of deja vu.
128104/01/2016, 21:32 - ?L Elliott: The explanation of why we are taking 
1282
1283this action is something I stated a while ago that the reps should 
1284
1285know. The reps here don't feel they know enough about what's happening. 
1286
1287I'm sure it'll come in due course...
128804/01/2016, 21:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: There are some in the grass-roots 
1289
1290who kick up a fuss that we are not providing enough info within minutes 
1291
1292of any announcement from the BMA. They are utterly obsessed with having 
1293
1294material for whichever media interview they have booked for that day. 
1295
1296There is no need to kow-tow to them.  Have to agree with kitty on this. 
1297
1298I also agree with andrew that messaging could always be 
1299
1300better...especially for keeping our members informed....but the KEY is 
1301
1302principled, honest messaging which is also agressive in its delivery. 
1303
1304So i am no too worried about whether or not we have a soundbite for 
1305
1306roshana tonight. What we need is all guns blazing tmro and day after.
130704/01/2016, 21:35 - J Malawana: This is going to go on for weeks
130804/01/2016, 21:35 - K Mohan: I agree. Although apparently Johann's 
1309
1310letter said the response would go out tonight.
131104/01/2016, 21:36 - K Mohan: I'm more concerned that our reps are 
1312
1313getting stressed about this (and I agree people always want more info) 
1314
1315rather than rationally sorting out their local trusts.
131604/01/2016, 21:36 - J Malawana: There is no point being so over 
1317
1318concerned about the detail as the story is we are going on strike. It's 
1319
1320only Twitter and everyone involved in the detail that are desperate 
1321
1322need for pages of detail. It will make no difference to the public 
1323
1324perception once we release our side.
132504/01/2016, 21:38 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I pretty much agree with that. 
1326
1327There is no need to be reactively and continualy rebutting every single 
1328
1329one of Hunts ludicrous claims. Key is to be consistent in the over-
1330
1331arching narrative.
133204/01/2016, 21:39 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Some on north thames want to be 
1333
1334on tv taking up hunt on every detail. Wrong strategy.
133504/01/2016, 21:40 - K Mohan: We know this. Our members disagree. 
1336
1337Not saying it's right (when east Surrey juniors told me they wanted 
1338
1339more details of the offer before they voted for IA I told them I would 
1340
1341tell them if they could tell me what was in para 132a of our current 
1342
1343TCS). They couldn't do I didn't.
134404/01/2016, 22:43 - M Redman: kitty ought to have access to bma Twitter 
1345
1346account...  in fact, comms dept should employ you, kitty.
134704/01/2016, 23:37 - K Mohan: I've tried to take over comms before you 
1348
1349may remember... They put up with me "living" on the 4th floor for two 
1350
1351weeks before they started a countdown for the number of days before 
1352
1353Andrew and I stepped down as chair.
135405/01/2016, 00:11 - A Collins: Christ I went to sleep after nights 
1355
1356and... :o
135705/01/2016, 01:03 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
135805/01/2016, 06:57 - D Rouse: Think we need to remember Roshana and 
1359
1360others are not the official Jdc spokes people.  
1361
1362They may well be running the BMA this time next year.  At the moment 
1363
1364they are not and we should not be pandering to their every demand. 
1365
1366It is important to inform memebers but not one at the expense of 
1367
1368others. This is a long slog. I worry a lot of this is more about 
1369
1370people's wish to be on tv than about juniors
137105/01/2016, 07:07 - D Rouse: This is the time when it is new and fresh 
1372
1373people should be referring media requests to the media team so they can 
1374
1375filter those requests to people who are well informed and rehearsed 
1376
1377ready to go.  
1378
1379There are rumours of people touting for media interviews rather than 
1380
1381being approached   This shouldn't be be happening. 
1382
1383I agree that our official reps need to be well rehearsed and informed 
1384
1385that is an important but different matter to the other one. 
1386
1387The JDC and official reps need to be owning this industrial action. 
1388
1389Grass roots will come fully onboard as time moves on but I agree with 
1390
1391Yanis we shouldn't be trying to appease a small few whom wish to be 
1392
1393doing media work.
139405/01/2016, 07:09 - J Malawana: The media will take who they want.
139505/01/2016, 07:10 - J Malawana: And we have no way of dictating to them 
1396
1397who they should take.
139805/01/2016, 07:10 - J Malawana: Mark is doing the rounds this morning 
1399
1400for us.
140105/01/2016, 07:10 - D Rouse: If we advise people to PDS requests onto 
1402
1403the media team we do
140405/01/2016, 07:10 - D Rouse: People not PDS
140505/01/2016, 07:11 - D Rouse: Pass not PDS lol
140605/01/2016, 07:11 - J Malawana: Be better if its mark as its a BMA wide 
1407
1408thing and I wanted him doing today so hunt sees whole BMA behind this.
140905/01/2016, 07:11 - J Malawana: His letter yesterday tried to bypass us
141005/01/2016, 07:12 - J Malawana: That's the advice that went out across 
1411
1412north Thames. Jeeves sent that repeatedly yesterday.
141305/01/2016, 07:12 - J Malawana: Your favourite north Thames Comms 
1414
1415expert sent out her own messages.
141605/01/2016, 07:24 - A Collier The "have a go hero" doctors are getting 
1417
1418a proper roasting in interviews, and yes that include the North Thames 
1419
1420'experts'
142105/01/2016, 07:25 - A Collier I should clarify my comment that by 
1422
1423'experts' I'm not talking about any of our team
142405/01/2016, 07:27 - A Collier There is a concerted effort in the DH 
1425
1426briefing to the press to move the talk on to pay and the multipliers 
1427
1428for out of hours
142905/01/2016, 07:42 - A Collier Having just heard Mark Porter on the 
1430
1431today programme it is crystal clear that the DH have briefed 
1432
1433journalists to attack us on pay and rates of pay for OOH. Lots of the 
1434
1435contractual technical details have been released to the press and 
1436
1437that's what's being thrown at interviewees.
143805/01/2016, 07:43 - J Malawana: Yes. They have been clear in the negs 
1439
1440as well. If we go on action they will attack us and make it entirely 
1441
1442about pay
144305/01/2016, 07:43 - J Malawana: That's what they have been saying for 
1444
1445weeks.
144605/01/2016, 07:43 - A Collier Though I'm stating the obvious our media 
1447
1448team and officers would be well advised to have a well designed 
1449
1450rebuttal.
145105/01/2016, 07:44 - J Malawana: It doesn't matter the reality. They are 
1452
1453going to make this entirely about one issue.
145405/01/2016, 07:44 - A Borbora: One sympathetic audience 
1455 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyside-junior-
1456
1457doctors-strike-next-10685515
145805/01/2016, 07:44 - J Malawana: So we have been briefing the opposite.
145905/01/2016, 07:44 - A Collier I've not heard a compelling rebuttal or 
1460
1461way to shut down the pay issue.
146205/01/2016, 07:44 - A Collier What is the issue we want to move the 
1463
1464media on to?
146505/01/2016, 07:45 - J Malawana: But today once the strike story is now 
1466
1467out we will make hunt look like a liar as we will come out with all the 
1468
1469areas that were disagreed with.
147005/01/2016, 07:45 - J Malawana: We need to take down his credibility.
147105/01/2016, 07:45 - A Collier I assume we've focuses on safety but we 
1472
1473need to develop that argument more
147405/01/2016, 07:45 - J Malawana: It's not yesterday that's important. 
1475
1476It's next Tuesday and Wednesday.
147705/01/2016, 07:46 - J Malawana: Fundamentally though we can't be scared 
1478
1479of the pay issue
148005/01/2016, 07:46 - J Malawana: We need to speak about fairness
148105/01/2016, 07:46 - J Malawana: It's an argument that does resonate 
1482
1483with the ordinary public
148405/01/2016, 07:46 - L J Davis: Drs shouldn't be paid less than they get 
1485
1486now...
148705/01/2016, 07:46 - J Malawana: People don't believe junior doctors are 
1488
1489paid enough.
149005/01/2016, 07:47 - L J Davis: Fairly simple
149105/01/2016, 07:47 - A Collier Yes we can't be scared of pay but a 
1492
1493dedicated well designed shut down is needed.
149405/01/2016, 07:47 - A Collier I've not heard Mark deliver one this 
1495
1496morning.
149705/01/2016, 07:47 - A Collier If he isn't prepped there's no chance for 
1498
1499anyone else.
150005/01/2016, 07:48 - A Collier The personal credibility JH attack is a 
1501
1502new line and needs a specific briefing
150305/01/2016, 07:51 - L J Davis: Jh attack? On mark or on jh?
150405/01/2016, 07:51 - L J Davis: (Not seen/heard interviews yet)
150505/01/2016, 07:51 - A Collier Today's storm will pass and the big 
1506
1507show/main event will be next Tuesday so we have a week to prepare and 
1508
1509test our lines
151005/01/2016, 07:52 - A Collier The attack I was referring to is the one 
1511
1512Johann suggested making against Jeremy Hunt and the spins that's been 
1513
1514peddled by the DH today
151505/01/2016, 07:52 - A Collier *spin
151605/01/2016, 07:54 - K Mohan: Is there an actual comms briefing? One 
1517
1518that can be circulated to all the BMA folk doing interviews etc. We've 
1519
1520previously always has them and occasionally they have been 
1521
1522useful/helped us develop our own lines to say.
152305/01/2016, 07:57 - K Mohan: On David's point, I'm afraid it isn't 
1524
1525possible to distinguish between the BMA and non-BMA reps regionally 
1526
1527anymore -certainly not in south thames. If you remember last time round 
1528
1529there were email send with our "Grassroot" organiser to link us up. So 
1530
1531we linked up. Ours is Roshana and that's fine as she works in Croydon 
1532
1533but it's not helpful for us not to say "let's leave them out of this 
1534
1535and just focus on BMA reps".
1536
1537Just not going to work.
153805/01/2016, 07:58 - L J Davis: That's helpful to know kitty.
153905/01/2016, 07:58 - K Mohan: and we no way control the media. Pretty 
1540
1541much every junior who has gone media stuff has been contracted directly 
1542
1543as far as I know.
154405/01/2016, 07:59 - L J Davis: I don't think we can leave anyone out; 
1545
1546but we may be able to field ppl who are more expert & knowledgeable 
1547
1548(like you!)
154905/01/2016, 08:04 - L J Davis: .jh due on bbc breakfast in a mo...
155005/01/2016, 08:04 - K Mohan: It's ok I have no real desire for fame (or 
1551
1552infamy) ;)
1553
1554Tbh the best thing we can do in my view is ensure that whoever is 
1555
1556giving interviews are as informed as possible that's by getting as much 
1557
1558info out publicly. 
1559
1560I think we (JDC) have a lot - really a huge amount of work- to do this 
1561
1562week and can do without the added hassle and distraction of media stuff 
1563
1564where possible. This IA has to be successful - Sarah and I were am 
1565
1566discussing yesterday that weirdly our reps seem very nervous to do 
1567
1568anything yet. They are clearly waiting for more info. So we need to get 
1569
1570it out there as time is short.
157105/01/2016, 08:05 - L J Davis: I agree.
157205/01/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: I have a lot of work to do to get 
1573
1574people confident. I am going to spend my time doing that this week. We 
1575
1576have a week and infighting is pointless. Mari and co will just not be 
1577
1578my priority. Today we will have a very very detailed briefing. After 
1579
1580that everyone can be fully prepped for next Tuesday and Wednesday.
158105/01/2016, 08:08 - K Mohan: When's acas, Johann?
158205/01/2016, 08:09 - J Malawana: I am not bothered about acas.
158305/01/2016, 08:09 - K Mohan: Right.
158405/01/2016, 08:10 - J Malawana: I have told mark that first strike is 
1585
1586definite unless they give us 7-7.
158705/01/2016, 08:11 - J Malawana: After first strike we have main JDC and 
1588
1589at that we can change mandate privately as a trade off for Saturday's 
1590
1591if needed. Exec may not like to hear this but we need to some how not 
1592
1593get to a full walk out. It's a vanity event for juniors. It's going to 
1594
1595blow up in our faces.
159605/01/2016, 08:11 - J Malawana: IA is about convincing the public and 
1597
1598causing disruption.
159905/01/2016, 08:12 - J Malawana: If we ever get to a full walk out the 
1600
1601media will stop listening.
160205/01/2016, 08:12 - J Malawana: I could have 4000 of the best Malcolm 
1603
1604tuckers in the world with Kate Middleton as my front woman and they 
1605
1606will state pillory us and stop listening to our message.
160705/01/2016, 08:13 - J Malawana: So we need to seriously think about 
1608
1609whether we pander to the extreme or we play smart and try and get to a 
1610
1611deal.
161205/01/2016, 08:13 - J Malawana: If we go all out we will give he Tories 
1613
1614exactly what they want.
161505/01/2016, 08:14 - J Malawana: That's our message killed.
161605/01/2016, 08:14 - J Malawana: But I want JDC to actively come to that 
1617
1618realisation.
161905/01/2016, 08:14 - J Malawana: They need to see how bad the media 
1620
1621backlash will be even after a normal strike.
162205/01/2016, 08:15 - J Malawana: The problem is when they kill our 
1623
1624message all the save our NHS stuff is killed as well.
162505/01/2016, 08:16 - J Malawana: Because our credibility will be totally 
1626
1627shot.
162805/01/2016, 08:16 - J Malawana: We need the threat. We can't afford to 
1629
1630change our position as need to keep the threat alive for the whole of 
1631
1632January.
163305/01/2016, 08:17 - J Malawana: But it's the follow through of the 
1634
1635threat we need to seriously work out the risks off.
163605/01/2016, 08:19 - A Collier Jeremy has upped his game this morning 
1637
1638and his media strategy is vastly improved when compared to the last few 
1639
1640months. We've got a few days to polished and perfect our approach for 
1641
1642Tuesday. We need to tackle the issue of pay head on but need to test 
1643
1644out the best approach in private rather than do it on air next week.
1645
1646I've never been in favour of a full walkout and completely agree that 
1647
1648we can't let it get to that point.
164905/01/2016, 08:20 - C Bell: I agree - the interview with mark this 
1650
1651morning wasn't convincing on pay. Jeremy is on in 10
165205/01/2016, 08:20 - L J Davis: Emergency only is not just a token 
1653
1654effort, either. We've already seen the cost of the last abandoned ia- 
1655
1656that's expensive for trusts; they are part of the lever for getting 
1657
1658movement on a better deal
165905/01/2016, 08:21 - J Malawana: We need the rest of JDC to see that
166005/01/2016, 08:25 - L J Davis: I also agree with Andrew that jh is 
1661
1662sounding vastly improved. He sounds reasonable & concerned about Drs & 
1663
1664pt safety.
166505/01/2016, 08:27 - K Mohan: I think JDC need some sense of reality of 
1666
1667the impact of the planned action on the media/patients/hospitals. Part 
1668
1669of that will come with doing the action next week and seeing how it 
1670
1671plays out- but we need some projections of how different it will get if 
1672
1673full walk out. Something concrete.
167405/01/2016, 08:29 - K Mohan: Otherwise "full walkout" is just a way to 
1675
1676"include everyone and not forget about EM".
1677
1678I don't mean that facetiously btw but seriously.
167905/01/2016, 08:29 - K Mohan: Did you way we're having an exec meeting 
1680
1681this week, Johann? If so when will it be (we're trying to plan stuff 
1682
1683regionally so need to know when free).
168405/01/2016, 08:37 - L J Davis: JH on r4 now
168505/01/2016, 08:38 - L J Davis: "To the credit of the Bma..."
168605/01/2016, 08:42 - L J Davis: Oh dear. He is sounding very calm & 
1687
1688credible.
168905/01/2016, 08:42 - L J Davis: A nice Christmas break has obviously 
1690
1691done him good...
169205/01/2016, 08:42 - L J Davis: Bastard
169305/01/2016, 08:55 - Z Greaves: That was my thought last night lol - the 
1694
1695strain was def showing before Christmas he even managed to look a bit 
1696
1697grey and sweaty in interviews but seems sadly back on form now
169805/01/2016, 09:00 - C Bell: He was excellent
169905/01/2016, 09:09 - A Collins: Eugh.
170005/01/2016, 09:23 - C Bell: Just been barraged by people asking 'so 
1701
1702what is the 16th thing you're not negotiating on'
170305/01/2016, 12:10 - K Mohan: Have the detailed briefings come out yet?
170405/01/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: Are we having a meeting This week. Kitty 
1705
1706makes a good point
170705/01/2016, 13:15 - D Rouse: And is materials up and running
170805/01/2016, 13:43 - A Sami: Materials are up and running with full time 
1709
1710employee running materials@bma.org.uk
171105/01/2016, 13:43 - D Rouse: Marvellous.
171205/01/2016, 13:44 - D Rouse: Johann asked myself and LJD to try and 
1713
1714coordinate some actions again from central PoV. Be great to get you on 
1715
1716board with us as well Amjad
171705/01/2016, 13:44 - A Sami: Sure ??
171805/01/2016, 13:46 - E McCourt: Amjad has done some amazing work so far 
1719
1720getting things up and running.
172105/01/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: Cool :-)
172205/01/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: Amjad can I call u this eve
172305/01/2016, 13:49 - A Collins: Is there anything the devolved nats reps 
1724
1725can do to help? I have a reasonable amount of time and no locals to 
1726
1727shepherd
172805/01/2016, 13:49 - A Collins: Would hate not to be helping!
172905/01/2016, 13:49 - D Rouse: Don't Nick all the stickers?
173005/01/2016, 13:49 - D Rouse: :-p
173105/01/2016, 13:51 - A Collins: ??
173205/01/2016, 13:52 - J Malawana: Will have a think.
173305/01/2016, 13:53 - J Malawana: Lots of people need to help producing 
1734
1735various resources. We have lots of captains but it's the output we 
1736
1737need. Our negs team and staff have been amazing at generating a ton of 
1738
1739content recently. Hopefully that will all be ready to go over the next 
1740
1741day or two.
174205/01/2016, 13:53 - J Malawana: But it's content generation we need.
174305/01/2016, 13:54 - J Malawana: Writing blogs on communities would be 
1744
1745good.
174605/01/2016, 13:55 - E McCourt: Blog about worries from Scottish 
1747
1748trainees? Support from Scottish trainees? Something like that?
174905/01/2016, 13:55 - J Malawana: Great idea Ellen.
175005/01/2016, 13:55 - A Collins: Yep, can definitely do!
175105/01/2016, 13:55 - J Malawana: How devolved national can help.
175205/01/2016, 13:55 - J Malawana: Etc.
175305/01/2016, 13:56 - A Collins: Will put some heads together on what we 
1754
1755can do too.
175605/01/2016, 13:56 - K Mohan: So has the detailed briefing come out yet?
175705/01/2016, 13:56 - C Sheridan: Perhaps we could circulate that around 
1758
1759our national listservers. Plenty folks on those might be keen beyond 
1760
1761those on here?
176205/01/2016, 13:57 - K Mohan: And sorry are we having a meeting this 
1763
1764week?
176505/01/2016, 13:58 - E McCourt: Not sure on both accounts Kitty. Johann?
176605/01/2016, 14:23 - C Sheridan: Also, i seem to remember we had a list 
1767
1768of topics which were useful to have blogs about last time, would be 
1769
1770helpful to have same again if we want to see certain issues brought to 
1771
1772the fore
177305/01/2016, 14:25 - A Sami: David, please do.
177405/01/2016, 14:27 - M Redman: Yeah... My plain time blog could easily 
1775
1776be edited for 7-9 Mon-Fri and 7-7 sat... Wouldn't be much different 
1777
1778lol.
177905/01/2016, 14:28 - M Redman: #strikeforsaturdays
178005/01/2016, 14:29 - K Mohan: Yeah I made that list up last time. ;)
178105/01/2016, 14:30 - A Collins: Have you it to hand?
178205/01/2016, 14:30 - M Redman: #KittyComms
178305/01/2016, 14:31 - A Collins: #kittycampson4?
178405/01/2016, 14:40 - K Mohan: Yes but it was just a list of the key 
1785
1786topics from the DDRB report. I'm at work and on call and multitasking 
1787
1788quite dramatically whilst on hold trying to sort out a chlorine issue 
1789
1790st st Thomas so the poor people there can stop drinking the "river 
1791
1792thames grade" chlorinated water...
179305/01/2016, 14:40 - A Collins: Haha ok we can wait dw
179405/01/2016, 14:41 - K Mohan: Basically I will find the list when I get 
1795
1796home (but I need to Skype Malta first).
179705/01/2016, 14:41 - K Mohan: ;)
179805/01/2016, 14:41 - A Collins: Now, what is this river Thames grsde 
1799
1800water?
180105/01/2016, 14:42 - A Collins: Sounds nasty
180205/01/2016, 14:42 - K Mohan: It's basically normal London drinking 
1803
1804water "eye roll".
180505/01/2016, 14:47 - C Castles: Is it posh people not wanting to drink 
1806
1807the poor people's water?
180805/01/2016, 15:22 - K Mohan: Not meaning to be an arse but could 
1809
1810someone confirm if or not the detailed briefing is going out today?
181105/01/2016, 16:36 - E McCourt: 
1812
1813http://m.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/working%20for%20change/contract
1814
1815%20negotiations%202015/2016/british%20medical%20association%20summary
1816
1817%20of%20position%20as%20at%204%20january%202016%20executive
1818
1819%20summary.pdf%20does%20that%20work%20for%20you
182005/01/2016, 16:39 - K Mohan: Thanks guys.
182105/01/2016, 16:46 - L J Davis: We also need to recirculate guidance on 
1822
1823social media... (I'm looking at that asap)
182405/01/2016, 16:48 - L J Davis: & I can redo something on gender pay 
1825
1826gap...
182705/01/2016, 17:37 - L J Davis: Erm. This is a bit long winded. But a 
1828
1829good start... http://www.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/practical
1830
1831%20advice%20at%20work/ethics/socialmediaguidance.pdf
183205/01/2016, 21:00 - M Redman: When are we meeting?
183305/01/2016, 21:05 - D Rouse: We don't know if we are yet
183405/01/2016, 21:10 - M Redman: Okay sure. Thanks Sir Rousey.
183505/01/2016, 21:11 - D Rouse: Hahaha I'm in Zie dark toooooo
183605/01/2016, 21:11 - A Collins: The Rt Hon Sir David of North Thames?
183705/01/2016, 21:11 - D Rouse: I live in the north
183805/01/2016, 21:11 - D Rouse: But work in the south
183905/01/2016, 21:11 - D Rouse: And am elected from the south
184005/01/2016, 21:11 - D Rouse: I have no voting rights in the north
184105/01/2016, 21:12 - D Rouse: To put that out clear and loud
184205/01/2016, 21:12 - A Collins: Ah, Sir David First of South Thames and 
1843
18446th of North?
184505/01/2016, 22:48 - M Redman: Juniors asking for a4 (or shorter than 10 
1846
1847pages - appaz 'hard to penetrate') media briefing (I have to say I've 
1848
1849heard some awful  media stuff today from ill-informed juniors - probs 
1850
1851trying to be helpful but not really) - is this one of things we're 
1852
1853working on?
1854
1855We had one for last IA that media dept helped Yorkshire(/Phil) with for 
1856
1857the Leeds protest
185805/01/2016, 22:49 - A Collins: Perhaps if they want to do media stuff 
1859
1860they could actually bother to read the not very long document?
186105/01/2016, 22:49 - A Collins: Them knowing the skim read version and 
1862
1863getting caught out will help no one
186405/01/2016, 22:49 - K Mohan: I haven't heard any of the interviews at 
1865
1866all in the last few days. What are people tripping up on? Pay questions 
1867
1868or just generally?
186905/01/2016, 22:50 - E McCourt: In production Melody.
187005/01/2016, 22:51 - A Collier The interviewees are being confronted 
1871
1872head-on with the pay issue in more detail than they have ever 
1873
1874encountered previously.
187505/01/2016, 22:51 - A Collier They don't have any answers when asked 
1876
1877about the issue of pay
187805/01/2016, 22:51 - M Redman: Amazing, thanks Ellen
187905/01/2016, 22:52 - A Collier They normally try to trot out an 
1880
1881emotional response to a technical argument and as a result appear 
1882
1883evasive Ill-informed.
188405/01/2016, 22:53 - K Mohan: Maybe they should just stop doing media 
1885
1886interviews and leave it to people who can be trained to answer the 
1887
1888questions head-on and knowledgeable.
188905/01/2016, 22:53 - C Castles: They've all had a fairly easy run of 
1890
1891things up to now sure, press mostly on juniors side
189205/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: Knowlwdgeably even.
189305/01/2016, 22:54 - C Castles: Agree
189405/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: Christ. You know what I'm trying to say.
189505/01/2016, 22:54 - A Collins: Which is only going to be exacerbated by 
1896
1897people going on media briefed only by a 1 page summary. 
1898Do we really think that is a useful thing to use for that purpose? I 
1899
1900can see how we would use one as a kind of flyer but frankly I'm 
1901
1902incensed at the cheek of anyone who wants to do a media interview but 
1903
1904can't be bothered to read one document.
190505/01/2016, 22:55 - D Rouse: I agree with kitty
190605/01/2016, 22:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Second that alrite
190705/01/2016, 22:55 - D Rouse: As I've said previously about this
190805/01/2016, 22:55 - K Mohan: I think they do need an actual media 
1909
1910briefing.
191105/01/2016, 22:55 - K Mohan: We usually have one but I haven't seen one 
1912
1913this time now.
191405/01/2016, 22:55 - K Mohan: Sorry. Inability to think and type 
1915
1916coherently.
191705/01/2016, 22:55 - A Yassaee: I also think a one page document is a 
1918
1919bad idea. If anything would be a good reminder of the need to not be 
1920
1921ill-informed on national tv, a non-summarised brief would do it.
192205/01/2016, 22:56 - M Redman: Incorrect things I've heard today -
1923
19241) We're now inviting jezza back to acas, door is open 
19252) stuff incorrect about safeguards
19263) rude/unempathetic response about why doctors should get paid more 
1927
1928for saturdays compared to other job
19294) inaccurate comment on what proposed plain time is...
193005/01/2016, 22:56 - A Yassaee: I havent seen too many but the one with 
1931
1932Piers Morgan was particularly awful.
193305/01/2016, 22:56 - M Redman: Oh yeah... Salwa malik's
193405/01/2016, 22:57 - A Yassaee: I actually think he did us a favour in 
1935
1936not going for the jugular there
193705/01/2016, 22:57 - M Redman: I have to say, someone from media team 
1938
1939asked if they could send someone an old quote from me about old plain 
1940
1941time hours from ddrb, which isn't currently accurate.
194205/01/2016, 22:57 - A Yassaee: Reassuring.
194305/01/2016, 22:59 - M Redman: Yeah I agree one page not enough probs... 
1944
1945But concept remains, so glad to hear it's on process, thanks Ellen :)
1946
1947As ?Collier said other day, we cant stop people talking though, we can 
1948
1949just try to equip em
195005/01/2016, 23:00 - E McCourt: Appropriate briefings for press 
1951
1952encounters are in production. They will be of adequate length to be 
1953
1954useful. Sound bites, which people appear to want, will also be provided 
1955
1956and will be easily digestible. Unfortunately, stopping folk from 
1957
1958volunteering to go into battle with Piers Morgan, I have no influence 
1959
1960over...
196105/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier These publicity hungry doctors will do 
1962
1963whatever they can to have their faces and voices in the media. Whilst 
1964
1965we can advise them not to do this they often make for better viewing 
1966
1967than a BMA bod from the point of view of a television producer.
196805/01/2016, 23:03 - A Collier I'm a little bit concerned that a media 
1969
1970briefing wasn't circulated to media outlets  last night was quite 
1971
1972clearly the Department of health did send out such an attack document
197305/01/2016, 23:04 - A Collier The press team do not always send such a 
1974
1975briefing to researcher and this should be a matter of course
197605/01/2016, 23:05 - A Collier Regardless of whether we are sending out 
1977
1978a briefing for have a go heroes we need to explain to our members why 
1979
1980the latest round of talks collapsed. I don't think we are connecting 
1981
1982with the wider membership on this issue.
198305/01/2016, 23:07 - K Mohan: ... And if we don't tell them why, they 
1984
1985won't take IA. Our reps in south thames are telling us their members 
1986
1987are saying that. Or they are worried that whilst people may take IA, 
1988
1989they may just stay at home rather then engaging with the events 
1990
1991planned.
199205/01/2016, 23:08 - A Collier I've been at a number of teaching 
1993
1994sessions across the region today and almost no one I spoke to 
1995
1996understood what the current sticking points were. Sadly I have to say I 
1997
1998found it difficult to explain why talks ended yesterday.
199905/01/2016, 23:15 - K Mohan: Wasn't it safeguards and plain time? 
2000
2001That's what we decided were the issues in the meeting yesterday pm
200205/01/2016, 23:16 - K Mohan: As in the punative financial penalty and 
2003
2004no acceptable movement on plain time
200505/01/2016, 23:29 - M Redman: Yeah they were the 2 sticking points in 
2006
2007convo leading to decision to strike, 
2008though bma doc saying the 4 main areas of disagreement.
2009
2010So kinda hard to communicate
201105/01/2016, 23:53 - A Collier The numbers and narrative are confusing 
2012
2013to say the least. We've got a little time to get our house in order so 
2014
2015need to use it wisely.
201606/01/2016, 07:05 - ?L Elliott: Just seen that the BDA got 96% vote and 
2017
2018will be striking on the same days as we are. FYI.
201906/01/2016, 08:24 - A Collins: Yay
202006/01/2016, 08:38 - M Redman: can I check we allowed to say what new 
2021
2022proposed plain time is for media stuff, bc I can't find it explicitly 
2023
2024stated in public correspondence except for 9 page offer?
202506/01/2016, 08:40 - A Collins: Johann said we can share the contents of 
2026
2027the 9 page offer
202806/01/2016, 08:41 - K Mohan: Yup. He wrote that on the JDC listserver
202906/01/2016, 08:42 - M Redman: whoops sorry thought that was just about 
2030
2031briefing reps. Thanks.
203206/01/2016, 08:43 - K Mohan: Tbh our reps are using it if they speak to 
2033
2034the media so why not us?
203506/01/2016, 08:55 - L J Davis: Ok. In my absence, my husband trawled 
2036
2037through stuff to 'inform' himself. His comments;
2038"Is the guardian a single person? At regional level or national level? 
2039
2040Or trust? It's not very clear."
2041"The Bma documents have lots of typos with poor grammar & spelling 
2042
2043mistakes"
2044
2045Then I fell asleep ??
204606/01/2016, 09:08 - K Mohan: On the second point, Andrew and I had to 
2047
2048proof read and extensively rewrite every single document that went 
2049
2050anywhere "from us" for members, the media and JDC for the last two 
2051
2052years. 
2053
2054It takes ages, we raised it again and again with the chief officers and 
2055
2056senior staff - but the current officers need to be super vigilant and 
2057
2058double and triple check everything. People will say there is no time, 
2059
2060there is always time.
206106/01/2016, 09:11 - K Mohan: I'm not saying our documents were "good". 
2062
2063But it was the consistent issue we highlighted literally from the time 
2064
2065we became chair and was actually one of the key reasons we moved to 
2066
2067Sheridan's directorate. (Because at the time we had complained to Vicky 
2068
2069Chapman about the quality of output).
207006/01/2016, 09:24 - L J Davis: Didn't come to me. So can't comment
207106/01/2016, 09:25 - K Mohan: Sadly we're all tarnished with the brush 
2072
2073as part of the "BMA".
207406/01/2016, 09:25 - L J Davis: I know
207506/01/2016, 10:20 - A Collins: Well timed circulation of social media 
2076
2077guidance for sure!
207806/01/2016, 10:35 - L J Davis: Did you read it, Adam? ??????
207906/01/2016, 12:00 - A Collins: Of course! :p
208006/01/2016, 12:14 - C Bell: Lots of support in theatres this morning 
2081
2082for the strikes, people are really pissed off
208306/01/2016, 12:36 - J Malawana: Sorry all. Had to go on his speed 
2084
2085awareness course that had been put off twice already so was in danger 
2086
2087of being in trouble. Heading back to office so will arrange details of 
2088
2089outstanding stuff like exec and officers catch up when get in.
209006/01/2016, 12:38 - L J Davis: Did you cope without your phone? ??
209106/01/2016, 12:39 - K Mohan: Hope you didn;t argue with the man running 
2092
2093the course...
209406/01/2016, 12:42 - J Malawana: Andy young or someone will be in touch 
2095
2096about exec meeting but likely to be Friday afternoon.
209706/01/2016, 12:43 - J Malawana: I don't have much spare capacity in 
2098
2099terms of time so please bare with me.
210006/01/2016, 12:45 - K Mohan: shame not in an evening as going to be 
2101
2102difficult at short notice
210306/01/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: Could do Friday evening sadly not day time
210406/01/2016, 12:48 - J Malawana: Sorry Noah has been sick and I am being 
2105
2106a really shit dad. Having lots of friends parents being pulled in to 
2107
2108cover for us so it's just juggling I need to sort out.
210906/01/2016, 12:48 - J Malawana: So ideally I am trying to prioritise 
2110
2111what's absolutely necessary in the evenings.
211206/01/2016, 12:48 - D Rouse: :-(.  Poor Noah
211306/01/2016, 12:49 - D Tooth: I won't be able to make Friday pm, could 
2114
2115do evening. Hope Noah is feeling better.
211606/01/2016, 12:51 - M Redman: I'll look after Noah!!!!!
211706/01/2016, 12:53 - B Roberts: I can do Friday but not the JDC meeting 
2118
2119on 18th Jan, apols. Hope you and Noah are ok!
212006/01/2016, 12:54 - A Collins: VC?
212106/01/2016, 12:57 - K Mohan: I'm on call on Friday pm so I doubt will 
2122
2123be able to join. Will obviously try to phone in if poss.
212406/01/2016, 12:57 - J Malawana: This will be VC meeting.
212506/01/2016, 12:57 - D Rouse: Friday evening after 1730 would be best 
2126
2127for me
212806/01/2016, 12:58 - J Malawana: Thanks melody. Your sweet. You will 
2129
2130have to move down :-)
213106/01/2016, 12:58 - K Mohan: Can you just remind us what the meeting is 
2132
2133to discuss? Ta.
213406/01/2016, 12:59 - J Malawana: It's because exec members asked for 
2135
2136one.
213706/01/2016, 12:59 - K Mohan: I'd offer to look after Noah but don't 
2138
2139think i'll be allowed. Something about being a "bad influence".
214006/01/2016, 12:59 - J Malawana: So was just booking it in as update 
2141
2142meeting
214306/01/2016, 12:59 - K Mohan: To discuss?
214406/01/2016, 13:00 - K Mohan: Ah right. I thought you said a few days 
2145
2146ago that there was something to decide at the end of the week.
214706/01/2016, 13:00 - J Malawana: Whatever you guys wanted to discuss. 
2148
2149Planning for Tuesday.
215006/01/2016, 13:00 - J Malawana: Ok so acas have just released a 
2151
2152statement asking for us to go to acas on Friday.
215306/01/2016, 13:00 - K Mohan: The days have rolled into one who have no 
2154
2155idea if j imagined that though.
215606/01/2016, 13:01 - J Malawana: Will need work that one out but I doubt 
2157
2158acas is going to be anything but a demonstration of our willingness to 
2159
2160look reasonable.
216106/01/2016, 13:02 - J Malawana: Will plan that out today. Of exec 
2162
2163prefer in light of that we can have a teleconference this afternoon if 
2164
2165needed.
216606/01/2016, 13:02 - J Malawana: Our position is fairly clear.
216706/01/2016, 13:03 - K Mohan: I can do this afternoon but happy 
2168
2169whichever way.
217006/01/2016, 13:03 - D Rouse: Again can only do evening working until 
2171
217218:00
217306/01/2016, 13:04 - J Malawana: But be good to reiterate it with exec 
2174
2175members if necessary.
217606/01/2016, 13:05 - J Malawana: It's what happens after Tuesday we need 
2177
2178to really think about. I have been preparing the masses for the 
2179
2180necessary changes to our position that maybe necessary
218106/01/2016, 13:05 - J Malawana: We do need to seriously think about the 
2182
2183time line going to January and beyond.
218406/01/2016, 13:06 - J Malawana: That means prepping the ground for 
2185
2186necessary changes of speed and direction that are going to be 
2187
2188absolutely necessary in a dynamic scenario.
218906/01/2016, 13:13 - A Collins: Sorry to hear about Noah :(
219006/01/2016, 13:13 - A Collins: Will try to VC from work if possible
219106/01/2016, 13:19 - M Redman: I'll be able to VC or TC after 1 .
219206/01/2016, 13:20 - M Redman: On Fri
219306/01/2016, 13:30 - A Collins: Can't make this pm and very short 
2194
2195notice. Could do the evening?
219606/01/2016, 13:35 - A Sami: Happy to VC on Friday afternoon or evening.
2197
2198I am working today but can be available after 18:00
219906/01/2016, 13:59 - L J Davis: I can't do 3-4pm. Anything else is a 
2200
2201challenge before 8ish (no childcare & 3 of them!)
220206/01/2016, 14:05 - J Malawana: Ok can do when get home about 10ish 
2203
2204tonight.
220506/01/2016, 14:06 - K Mohan: Is this instead of/or as well as Friday?
220606/01/2016, 14:21 - J Malawana: Instead
220706/01/2016, 14:29 - A Collins: Can do tonight. Sorry. And thanks. Much 
2208
2209appreciated boss.
221006/01/2016, 14:36 - M Redman: Yeah can do tonight after on call
221106/01/2016, 14:40 - C Bell: Yes
221206/01/2016, 14:41 - A Yassaee: Sounds good
221306/01/2016, 14:51 - D Tooth: Tonight good
221406/01/2016, 15:09 - ?L Elliott: I'm on nights so no. Friday was better. 
2215
2216I'll get an update from Aaron
221706/01/2016, 15:48 - ?L Elliott: Just to mention as well  - The 48 hour 
2218
2219strike is due when there are interviews for speciality planned. It will 
2220
2221definitely affect medical interviews here in north west. I know it's 
2222
2223not up to us to reschedule but be aware that some doctors will 
2224
2225certainly be inconvenienced and that the final date for release of 
2226
2227offers will therefore have to be moved to accommodate rescheduling of 
2228
2229interviews.
223006/01/2016, 16:08 - E McCourt: Can someone explain this to me, if it's 
2231
2232an issue I can approach HEE. If people have booked leave to go for 
2233
2234interviews, they weren't due to be at work. Why can't they just attend 
2235
2236the interview? Is it that the specialties are cancelling interviews to 
2237
2238free up consultants?
223906/01/2016, 16:12 - ?L Elliott: It is something HEE have agreed on. The 
2240
2241reasons why I'm not sure. Could be to free up consultants, could be 
2242
2243that like the teaching sessions that were cancelled regionally it's 
2244
2245seen as being at work type of thing, maybe being on strike would be a 
2246
2247distraction (but then HEE wouldn't be that nice).
224806/01/2016, 16:13 - ?L Elliott: I heard it from one of the consultants 
2249
2250who is cmt interviewer. He didn't know the full details.
225106/01/2016, 16:14 - E McCourt: So HEE/Lead recruiters have cancelled 
2252
2253the interviews? I will investigate. Thanks Lottie.
225406/01/2016, 16:16 - ?L Elliott: At the current stage I think they are 
2255
2256looking to rearrange them, don't think cancelled them yet. I'm not sure 
2257
2258for the rest of eng but cmt north west interviews were due to take 
2259
2260place 19/20th. I'll try get hold of an email see if it explains more
226106/01/2016, 16:17 - Z Greaves: They planned to for the last day of 
2262
2263action and the rationale was that it would free up consultants
226406/01/2016, 16:19 - ?L Elliott: Which is rich when most hospitals are 
2265
2266trying their best not to cancel lists / clinics to do exactly that!
226706/01/2016, 17:32 - L J Davis: Lost the plot :) are we doing tonight or 
2268
2269fri? I'll have nightmares if we run too late.... :)
227006/01/2016, 17:34 - L J Davis: Ok. Can everyone think of a bullet point 
2271
2272do/don't for social media for members this week?
227306/01/2016, 17:35 - L J Davis: Like;;
2274Try not to post when you're angry. Wait a few minutes; a post made in 
2275
2276haste is easy to regret
227706/01/2016, 17:37 - L J Davis: And;
2278Bear in mind Twitter and Facebook are both public fora. What you say 
2279
2280can end up being quoted in the press
228106/01/2016, 17:38 - L J Davis: And;
2282Remember that defamation laws still stand on social media
228306/01/2016, 20:55 - J Malawana: Whoever is manning the DH Twitter 
2284
2285account is probably wondering what they did to deserve tonight.
228606/01/2016, 20:56 - J Malawana: But bloody hell. To be so full of shit.
228706/01/2016, 20:58 - K Mohan: Yup entirely their own fault.
228806/01/2016, 21:14 - J Malawana: Probably not going to get back home for 
2289
229010pm so maybe 10.15pm if that's ok.
229106/01/2016, 21:15 - A Collins: Of course
229206/01/2016, 21:15 - D Rouse: What's this at 10:15
229306/01/2016, 21:15 - A Collins: VC
229406/01/2016, 21:17 - D Tooth: Sure
229506/01/2016, 21:25 - E McCourt: I could scroll back but I'm not. What's 
2296
2297at 10.15? Do I need to be at 10.15?
229806/01/2016, 21:25 - A Collins: VC
229906/01/2016, 21:26 - A Collins: Not sure of number yet
230006/01/2016, 21:26 - E McCourt: For all of exec?
230106/01/2016, 21:26 - D Tooth: Yes instead of the meeting on Friday
230206/01/2016, 21:26 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Will it b poss to phone in?
230306/01/2016, 21:26 - E McCourt: Okidoke
230406/01/2016, 21:26 - A Collins: Yes if we're doing scopia it will be 
2305
2306possible to call in
230706/01/2016, 21:26 - Y Gourtsouyannis: And my understanding is that this 
2308
2309is an update meeting
231006/01/2016, 21:28 - J Malawana: Exec meeting and update.
231106/01/2016, 21:28 - J Malawana: Has anyone got the details of one of 
2312
2313the scopia lines?
231406/01/2016, 21:29 - K Mohan: Guys, we're having an issue with one of 
2315
2316our trusts saying that if they go into business continuity mode because 
2317
2318of winter pressures that counts as a major incident and the juniors 
2319
2320will have to return to work.
2321
2322I know that's happening elsewhere as well. But the IRO covering the 
2323
2324trust (Cathy our main south thames IRO) is off on annual leave until 
2325
2326the 11th. Is there anyone who can help? We're not sure who to involve. 
2327
2328The LNC chair wanted to speak to an IRO. And weirdly has spoken to the 
2329
2330Bristol IRO for some seemingly one off advice.
233106/01/2016, 21:29 - M Redman: Corpe Room - Scopia ID 617012 or tc 02030 
2332
2333333911
233406/01/2016, 21:30 - K Mohan: It's clearly not right. My question is who 
2335
2336can we get to help the folk at the trust.
233706/01/2016, 21:30 - A Collins: Well as I understand it the short answer 
2338
2339is that they can inform us of "major incident" status but we will (with 
2340
2341NHSEng?) decide what really constitutes the sort of major incident that 
2342
2343jrs would go back for?
234406/01/2016, 21:31 - M Redman: don't the other IROs provide cross cover 
2345
2346or something?
234706/01/2016, 21:31 - K Mohan: The LNC chair has literally no idea.
234806/01/2016, 21:31 - J Malawana: There is an agreed protocol win sir 
2349
2350Bruce. Can you email to the trust to Chris darke and copy me in kitty?
235106/01/2016, 21:31 - E McCourt: Can we activate Sheridan to nominate an 
2352
2353appropriately stern deputy?
235406/01/2016, 21:32 - A Collins: Can we just have sheridan back?
235506/01/2016, 21:32 - K Mohan: No let's not.
235606/01/2016, 21:32 - K Mohan: Sorry shall I email details to you and 
2357
2358Chris drake, Johann.
235906/01/2016, 21:32 - K Mohan: Darke even?
236006/01/2016, 21:32 - J Malawana: Can you just email me the details and 
2361
2362the trust and Chris darke.
236306/01/2016, 21:33 - J Malawana: Yes :-)
236406/01/2016, 21:33 - K Mohan: Perfect thanks.
236506/01/2016, 21:35 - K Mohan: I saw Bruce Keogh yesterday. He actually 
2366
2367said hello to me (by name) and I kind of smiled/glared back as I 
2368
2369couldn't place him. He looked older than when we last met him.
237006/01/2016, 21:35 - K Mohan: ;)
237106/01/2016, 21:36 - M Redman: Lol Omd really?
237206/01/2016, 21:37 - K Mohan: Yeah. He had a sandwich in his hand.
237306/01/2016, 21:37 - K Mohan: I'm not sure why that was relevant to 
2374
2375tells you.
237606/01/2016, 21:39 - A Collins: I'm glad you made a friend
237706/01/2016, 21:42 - K Mohan: He's annoying.
237806/01/2016, 21:43 - A Collins: thats not a nice thing to say about your 
2379
2380friend.
238106/01/2016, 21:46 - B Roberts: What flavour sandwich was it?
238206/01/2016, 21:47 - M Redman: Was it chicken if so was it reheated and 
2383
2384was it contaminated with salmonella
238506/01/2016, 21:47 - M Redman: I mean campylobacter
238606/01/2016, 21:48 - C Castles: Was it poorly stored tuna, and maybe 
2387
2388he'll get scombroid poisoning?
238906/01/2016, 21:49 - K Mohan: I hope not as if he gets sick with a 
2390
2391notifiable disease i have to deal with it. it'll be like the time a got 
2392
2393told that the archbishop of canterbury had been asked to ring me as 
2394
2395he'd come back from sierra leone and i was meant to issue his clearance 
2396
2397certificate. AND HE DIDN'T RING.
239806/01/2016, 21:50 - K Mohan: very good knowledge, conan. you get a 
2399
2400public health gold star.
240106/01/2016, 21:50 - C Castles: Yay
240206/01/2016, 21:50 - C Castles: I diagnosed that one
240306/01/2016, 21:50 - C Castles: Once
240406/01/2016, 21:50 - C Castles: I new Zealand
240506/01/2016, 21:51 - C Castles: On intrigued about the archbishop now. 
2406
2407Did he ever phone?
240806/01/2016, 21:53 - M Redman: Speaking of Canterbury... I'm going on 
2409
2410bbc big questions on Sunday morning ??
241106/01/2016, 21:54 - M Redman: You should have sued him
241206/01/2016, 21:56 - K Mohan: What's bbc big questions?
241306/01/2016, 21:56 - K Mohan: sounds impressive melody
241406/01/2016, 21:58 - C Castles: Is that the ethical one?
241506/01/2016, 21:58 - M Redman: If you are not familiar with our 
2416
2417programme, we are the BBC1 main religious, ethical and moral debate 
2418
2419show which broadcasts on Sunday mornings at 10am.   The Big Questions 
2420
2421regularly reaches an audience across the UK of up to 1.4 million 
2422
2423viewers and is hosted by Nicky Campbell.  We are the same company that 
2424
2425makes Question Time and we travel around the country each week.
242606/01/2016, 21:59 - M Redman: Should doctors be allowed to strike
242706/01/2016, 21:59 - M Redman: It's live for an hour ??
2428I need my teammate Ellen...
242906/01/2016, 22:00 - C Castles: They were looking someone to go on when 
2430
2431the strike was first announced, weren't they?
243206/01/2016, 22:00 - A Collins: Oh yes I remember that
243306/01/2016, 22:00 - A Sami: sorry guys, what is the dial in details 
2434
2435please?
243606/01/2016, 22:00 - M Redman: Corpe Room - Scopia ID 617012 or tc 02030 
2437
2438333911
243906/01/2016, 22:01 - M Redman: 2215 amjad
244006/01/2016, 22:01 - M Redman: Not yet
244106/01/2016, 22:01 - M Redman: Cos JoHulks not home yet
244206/01/2016, 22:01 - A Sami: OK cool. Thank you
244306/01/2016, 22:01 - M Redman: Crap is that  the one everyone said not 
2444
2445to do?
244606/01/2016, 22:01 - K Mohan: ah yes i remember from last time.
244706/01/2016, 22:02 - K Mohan: don't worry melody. you'll be fine.
244806/01/2016, 22:03 - C Castles: I thought so
244906/01/2016, 22:03 - Z Greaves: No one there?
245006/01/2016, 22:03 - C Castles: But I think the concern was that someone 
2451
2452who didn't know what they were taking about would go on, so you'll be 
2453
2454grand
245506/01/2016, 22:04 - M Redman: 2215 zoe
245606/01/2016, 22:06 - Z Greaves: D'oh well I just broke a few speed 
2457
2458limits for no reason
245906/01/2016, 22:06 - E McCourt: You're going on TV without me? ??
246006/01/2016, 22:07 - E McCourt: You'll be excellent!
246106/01/2016, 22:07 - C Bell: Can someone buzz when we're on?
246206/01/2016, 22:16 - L J Davis: Does anyone use scopia on an iPhone? I 
2463
2464get to a page which wants a server (or something) then can't go 
2465
2466further...
246706/01/2016, 22:16 - D Tooth: That's the same trouble I have ljd
246806/01/2016, 22:17 - Z Greaves: Yes I do, don't go through the app, go 
2469
2470direct to weblink: http://webvc.bma.org.uk that will redirect you to 
2471
2472the app which should then work x
247306/01/2016, 22:19 - L J Davis: Wow! Fab thank you Zoe!!!
247406/01/2016, 22:22 - L J Davis: Oh. It goes back to that screen. ??
247506/01/2016, 22:22 - L J Davis: 612205 ?
247606/01/2016, 22:23 - M Redman: Starting now guyZz
247706/01/2016, 22:23 - E McCourt: 617012
247806/01/2016, 22:26 - Z Greaves: Did that work? Wow! Can't believe I 
2479
2480actually solved an it problem - a first for me :)
248106/01/2016, 22:27 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Wont b able to vc in today 
2482
2483unfortunatelty. If anybody could do a 5 point summary for those of us 
2484
2485who couldnt attend that would b great. Apologies.
248606/01/2016, 22:42 - L J Davis: Erm. We didn't contact exec members who 
2487
2488aren't on whatsapp to join us, did we? & they may think mtg on Friday 
2489
2490still on...
249106/01/2016, 22:43 - C Castles: True
249206/01/2016, 22:46 - L J Davis: Question for Johann; If they do offer 7
2493
2494-7 on Friday, are all our other red lines met? Is just that issue 
2495
2496outstanding? Do we then call off the ia?
249706/01/2016, 22:46 - A Sami: good question. such as the safeguards?
249806/01/2016, 22:54 - L J Davis: Having scopia issues. Did someone ask my 
2499
2500question?
250106/01/2016, 22:54 - L J Davis: I can ask; I'm on the phone now :)
250206/01/2016, 22:54 - A Collins: Not asked yet, carry in!
250306/01/2016, 22:54 - A Collins: *on
250406/01/2016, 23:33 - B Roberts: Sorry I had to leave, I wonder if the 
2505
2506Cardiff rain is affecting my Scopia...
250706/01/2016, 23:35 - A Collins: Sorry, had to go give Dr Boyle some 
2508
2509badges out of the car
251006/01/2016, 23:37 - L J Davis: Safeguards; guardians; what happens to 
2511
2512punitative pay; rest breaks; there is a LOT to take ia over
251306/01/2016, 23:41 - A Collins: I mean like essentially the whole 
2514
2515contract.
251606/01/2016, 23:42 - A Collins: I've seen a couple of times rhe idea 
2517
2518that we'd agreed on 14/16 points.
251906/01/2016, 23:42 - A Collins: That's not true... Right?
252006/01/2016, 23:56 - L J Davis: Is your car full of Bma badges? I 
2521
2522thought it was just stickers?!?!
252306/01/2016, 23:58 - A Collins: Yeah I've got like 100k
252406/01/2016, 23:58 - A Collins: I stick them on the outside as scratch 
2525
2526protectors
252707/01/2016, 00:05 - L Boyle: Dr Boyle will pepper RIE with badges & 
2528
2529stickers on the days of action
253007/01/2016, 00:06 - L Boyle: Whilst we re-erect Hadrian's wall
253107/01/2016, 00:06 - A Collins: From that T shirt cannon we ordered?
253207/01/2016, 00:07 - L Boyle: Exactly
253307/01/2016, 01:28 - J Malawana: Ok I am going to say that JDC exec will 
2534
2535be signing off final IA plans on Monday at 10am
253607/01/2016, 01:28 - J Malawana: Does anyone think that is explicit 
2537
2538enough?
253907/01/2016, 01:59 - ?L Elliott: Is there another meeting on Monday 
2540
2541then? I was in work so didn't hear outcomes.
254207/01/2016, 02:08 - J Malawana: Ignore me. I took out the deadline 
2543
2544reference from the Facebook post.
254507/01/2016, 02:09 - J Malawana: It was just after what some people said 
2546
2547about people not being motivated. So was trying to work out ways to 
2548
2549motivate them
255007/01/2016, 02:09 - J Malawana: I have removed it so don't worry :-)
255107/01/2016, 02:12 - ?L Elliott: Can I ask why updates are going onto 
2552
2553the Facebook group of doom and not to wider members who need to know 
2554
2555what's happening? Sorry if missed something and it is going out to 
2556
2557wider membership as well.
255807/01/2016, 02:16 - J Malawana: Yes. That's going tomorrow in all 
2559
2560member email. It's just exec pointed out that there was a motivation 
2561
2562problem about getting juniors out. So am going to use all mediums to 
2563
2564get message out.
256507/01/2016, 07:16 - K Mohan: Presumably you're still going to do the 
2566
2567video we discussed as a battle-cry...
256807/01/2016, 07:16 - K Mohan: Also did anyone find the banner for the 
2569
2570march on sat?
257107/01/2016, 07:25 - J Malawana: Yes.
257207/01/2016, 07:25 - J Malawana: I think Harry was going to look?
257307/01/2016, 07:29 - H Carter: I enquired. Comms don't agree with us 
2574
2575about using the banner because apparently the message will be confused. 
2576
2577I've reiterated that we would like to use it as has Hugh. I'll contact 
2578
2579them again. It will be somebody else's responsibility to pick it up for 
2580
2581the March as I can't be there.
258207/01/2016, 07:29 - E McCourt: ??
258307/01/2016, 07:32 - K Mohan: FFS. So I can't pick up the banner as on 
2584
2585call today and tomorrow so only finish late. 
2586
2587I'm not sure how we have block without the banner. We'll never find 
2588
2589each other...
259007/01/2016, 07:33 - J Malawana: Harry can you tell them you're not 
2591
2592asking their permission. As a bop chair you would like the banner. If 
2593
2594there is an issue then will have to go and talk to them.
259507/01/2016, 07:33 - J Malawana: We will have the banner.
259607/01/2016, 07:33 - J Malawana: Don't worry.
259707/01/2016, 07:33 - K Mohan: (The FFS was directed st comms not you, 
2598
2599Harry, just to clarify).
260007/01/2016, 07:33 - H Carter: Johann I have said that. I don't give a 
2601
2602flying fuck about their opinion on this one. Sorry for strong words.
260307/01/2016, 07:34 - K Mohan: We prob should have a specific March 
2604
2605related post on JDC-L?
260607/01/2016, 07:35 - H Carter: I'm just informing you that that was the 
2607
2608response from comms.
260907/01/2016, 07:36 - J Malawana: Thanks Harry. Good.
261007/01/2016, 07:37 - J Malawana: I am sure it will get sorted. Don't 
2611
2612worry. It's that they are probably very concerned about the nature of 
2613
2614the March. In fact lots of doctors are because they are worried this is 
2615
2616going to be a public party political thing.
261707/01/2016, 07:38 - J Malawana: If it goes that way I would suggest we 
2618
2619very quickly roll up the banner
262007/01/2016, 07:38 - J Malawana: We have to try and not give fuel to the 
2621
2622right wing press or get swept up in the fever of being all about anti 
2623
2624Tory austerity.
262507/01/2016, 07:39 - A Collins: Have you told council members that? ;)
262607/01/2016, 07:41 - J Malawana: If we do, we lose this and so does the 
2627
2628all the leftist groups. I would like to remind all members of exec you 
2629
2630don't speak from JDC unless I specifically say so. I am sorry to be 
2631
2632draconian but it may become necessary given some of the issues and 
2633
2634accusations flying around.
263507/01/2016, 07:41 - J Malawana: Please only stick to the JDC positions.
263607/01/2016, 07:45 - J Malawana: Please don't make this party political. 
2637
2638If you cannot do that, please feel free to resign and speak as freely 
2639
2640as you want. It's just we have a very very problematic few weeks and if 
2641
2642we give the ammunition to be portrayed as anything but the reasonable 
2643
2644representatives of junior doctors and not party political cheer group, 
2645
2646then we will do our members a disservice. 
2647
2648Our battle is specifically with the DH and the Secretary of State. It's 
2649
2650not against he entire Tory party. However much some of us may not like 
2651
2652that or see the distinction it's a fundamental one that we have to 
2653
2654stick to.
265507/01/2016, 07:51 - K Mohan: Sorry final unrelated question:
2656
2657Is it useful for people/everyone to start asking questions about the cc 
2658
2659negs proposals - like about why  lower starting salary and what the 
2660
2661plain/premium time proposals now are? And really not letting go.
266207/01/2016, 07:51 - J Malawana: After Tuesday if that's ok?
266307/01/2016, 07:51 - J Malawana: Right now focus is on the message.
266407/01/2016, 07:52 - J Malawana: It's good you out that tweet. It's sign 
2665
2666posted and flagged. Now it's all going to be about IA.
266707/01/2016, 07:53 - K Mohan: That's fine. Just checking.
266807/01/2016, 08:31 - J Malawana: Harry already sorted. You will have the 
2669
2670banner.
267107/01/2016, 08:32 - J Malawana: Their concern was the one I outlined 
2672
2673above which is understandable and actually is the job we want them 
2674
2675doing. Protecting us from ourselves. I need a lot of that. But is 
2676
2677sorted.
267807/01/2016, 10:20 - K Mohan: What % trainees work non res? I think it 
2679
2680is 20% but have no idea why I think that. Does anyone have a source?
268107/01/2016, 10:24 - A Collins: I think that's what Andrew c keeps 
2682
2683quoting?
268407/01/2016, 10:27 - K Mohan: As much as I love Andrew as you all know 
2685
2686and fully trust him, I was wondering what the original source was?
268707/01/2016, 10:28 - A Collins: I know you were... Just saying :p
268807/01/2016, 10:32 - K Mohan: Nah, you just wanted to check that Kitdrew 
2689
2690Mohollier was still going strong. We are I assure you. ;)
269107/01/2016, 10:35 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Take ur point johann. I would 
2692
2693howevr say please bear in mind that the conservative press is going to 
2694
2695b doing this regardless. They had a go at mark porter for being a 
2696
2697'guardian reader' fo god sake and tom dolphin for saying homeopathy is 
2698
2699witchcraft. I do not enjoy this one bit. Will not b talking to media 
2700
2701rest assured. I would also add that it was my communities post which 
2702
2703garnered the attention of the rightwing press. Why? Because it was very 
2704
2705succesful and reached out to our natural allies in the public. Thats 
2706
2707why the press are attacking.
270807/01/2016, 10:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: (My post calling for support has 
2709
2710had 9500 views in 48 hrs).
271107/01/2016, 10:59 - L J Davis: Actually, rather bizarrely, I think we 
2712
2713have natural allies in both political wings, so to speak. The left wing 
2714
2715is obvious at the mo; but there are many on the right who also believe 
2716
2717that doctors should be paid fairly (and well) for a hard job
271807/01/2016, 10:59 - L J Davis: The difference is that the right side 
2719
2720are MUCH less likely to support a strike.
272107/01/2016, 11:00 - L J Davis: But it is probably going to be important 
2722
2723to keep them on side to find a resolution/exit strategy from all this.
272407/01/2016, 11:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Thats the very crux of the issue. 
2725
2726They do not see the full picture. But yes...by all means...lets get 
2727
2728those on the right out and vocal in support of us. You will encounter 
2729
2730some difficulties in this is though.
273107/01/2016, 11:02 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Anyway the coming week will 
2732
2733demonstrate what needs and doesnt need to be done.
273407/01/2016, 11:02 - L J Davis: I'd also add that not all Tory 
2735
2736supporters are privatisers.
273707/01/2016, 11:02 - A Collier The number is actually slightly less than 
2738
273920%. My source is an audit of rotas in the Northwest. I've never seen a 
2740
2741centrally held figure for the number of non-resident on-call shift 
2742
2743workers. However during the last executive meeting Johan quoted a 
2744
2745figure of between 16 and 18% which I think comes from a more recent 
2746
2747data collection exercise.
274807/01/2016, 11:03 - L J Davis: (I'm not a Tory supporter myself, as 
2749
2750I've said before!)
275107/01/2016, 11:05 - L J Davis: And I suspect it's unlikely that you 
2752
2753will get those to the right who broadly support 'out and vocal'. That's 
2754
2755not how they function. Doesn't mean to say we should antagonise them.
275607/01/2016, 11:09 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I really need to clarify 
2757
2758something from this end. I have never believed the majority of Tort 
2759
2760supporters are 'right wing'. My issue has  never been with with tory 
2761
2762voters. The issue is this..as evident frm the right wing media in last 
2763
276428 hrs; whenevr we even mention privatisation etc we are shut down. And 
2765
2766there is a reason for that. The Tory PARTY does not want those who 
2767
2768votes for it on ofcasion to start waking up to the reality. That is why 
2769
2770from next week our message has to address all these issues in an honest 
2771
2772way. To sway the casual Tory voter. This is jot about antaginising tory 
2773
2774voters. When Jacky Davis writes a book about MHS procatisation and then 
2775
2776this is used against her in the tory press sje is NOT antagonising 
2777
2778ordinary tory voters. She is antagonsising the rightwing press and the 
2779
2780leadership of th tory party. These two entities are NOT the same as the 
2781
2782average tory voty. That has to always be borne in mind.
278307/01/2016, 11:11 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Wow...huge typos! Rushed from the 
2784
2785pavement. P.s thats prob enough on this issues for now. Dnt want to 
2786
2787clog up whatsapp.
278807/01/2016, 11:19 - C Bell: From labour HQ source: Her Majesty's 
2789
2790Opposition are thinking of launching a full front assault on the junior 
2791
2792doctor's issue next week...
279307/01/2016, 11:23 - C Bell: They're keen to know the likelihood of a 
2794
2795strike
279607/01/2016, 11:27 - A Yassaee: It's about time they pulled a finger 
2797
2798out.
279907/01/2016, 11:31 - Z Greaves: Mmm LJD has a strong point - you may not 
2800
2801intend to antagonise the average Tory voter with the message that the 
2802
2803government are trying to privatise the NHS but what you're essentially 
2804
2805saying when you do that is that you (Tory voter) were too dumb to see 
2806
2807this coming ... Or for those who don't see the wholesale privatisation 
2808
2809agenda that Jackie and co are forwarding (which many don't) - then you 
2810
2811either sound like a conspiracy theorist or again the implication always 
2812
2813seems to be that the Tory voter cannot see what is in front of their 
2814
2815nose ... None of these angles are likely to incline people to your 
2816
2817view. 
2818
2819The angles that will win the Tory voter are those of safe working 
2820
2821conditions make for better care and the argument that doctors are worth 
2822
2823a decent wage - the philosophy that hard work should pay is inherently 
2824
2825Tory (and anti-socialist :P ) 
2826
2827Ps please can we start something the equivalent of the milifandom for 
2828
2829Heidi Alexander??
283007/01/2016, 11:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 'The philosophy that hard work 
2831
2832should pay is inherently Tory' is absolutely innacurate and the very 
2833
2834opposite of the truth.
283507/01/2016, 11:34 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Aargh couldnt resist replying to 
2836
2837that zoe! ;-) i love our debates!
283807/01/2016, 11:34 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Thats me done for nw.
283907/01/2016, 11:35 - Z Greaves: Lol
284007/01/2016, 11:46 - K Mohan: Our south London reps are planning to 
2841
2842write a "junior doctor statement" from their trust junior doctor groups 
2843
2844and sent it to the media etc. 
2845
2846Obvs will keep an eye on content but don't think there's obvious harm 
2847
2848in doing this (and could help create a bit of momentum).
284907/01/2016, 11:46 - L J Davis: I'm not sure quite what 'inherently' 
2850
2851means in this context, but I'm 100% certain that *most* Tory supporters 
2852
2853believe hard work should pay well. 
2854(See, I went further than Zoe there!).
2855Most Tory supporters are very aspirational - and lots would feel that 
2856
2857being a doctor is the kind of aspirational career they'd encourage 
2858
2859their children to aspire to... That's what we should build on...
286007/01/2016, 12:04 - C Bell: In one succinct paragraph, how would we 
2861
2862define 'the main remaining sticking points'?
286307/01/2016, 13:12 - A Sami: Proposed safegaurds: The trust will 
2864
2865penlises itself if working hours breached and pays the penality to 
2866
2867itself!
2868
2869Saturday is not a plain time. End of!
287007/01/2016, 13:26 - A Borbora: I've copied my regional email to exec 
2871
2872listserver
287307/01/2016, 13:37 - K Mohan: Aaron are you happy for us to adapt the 
2874
2875bit about why we're striking and use it regionally
287607/01/2016, 13:50 - A Borbora: Yes of course
287707/01/2016, 13:56 - C Bell: Perfect
287807/01/2016, 14:07 - A Collins: "currently the government had failed to 
2879
2880meet the BMA's minimum standards for effective, safe, working hours 
2881
2882limits; fair remuneration for out of hours working; and a fair system 
2883
2884of remuneration (including a widely accepted definition of" plain 
2885
2886time") for work done out of hours. There exist further concerns around 
2887
2888recruitment and retention of the 52 percent of trainees who follow a 
2889
2890non linear route through training because of punitive pay arrangements, 
2891
2892and the 18 percent of trainees who work non resident on Call rotas who 
2893
2894will be paid far below the minimum wage for time during which they must 
2895
2896remain within a short distance of the hospital, disrupting family and 
2897
2898personal life, and necessitating additional costs such as child care or 
2899
2900other care provision. Despite good faith negotiations since  December, 
2901
2902the DH has failed to accept the BMA's proposals, believing that they 
2903
2904can continue to squeeze Junior Doctors to work more for less, under the 
2905
2906guise of a nebulous promise to deliver a 7 day NHS we would argue 
2907
2908already exists."
290907/01/2016, 14:07 - A Collins: Perhaps?
291007/01/2016, 14:12 - A Borbora: Why not put it on the listserver where 
2911
2912people can read it?
291307/01/2016, 14:16 - C Castles: Yeah, I find it difficult to read that 
2914
2915much in one paragraph in WhatsApp
291607/01/2016, 16:41 - K Mohan: Message from or Kingston rep.
2917
2918Hi all. Our trust has called a meeting of junior doctors this evening 
2919
2920because they've been told to gather feedback for sir David dalton. I'm 
2921
2922going along and going to essentially reiterate the BMAs summary 
2923
2924document which was recently released.
2925
2926Chief exec has called the meeting.
292707/01/2016, 16:51 - A Collier On a similar theme yesterday our trust 
2928
2929were asked to undertake a "head count" of all doctors and particularly 
2930
2931juniors with results being fed back to "somewhere central" so that the 
2932
2933impact of next week's action can be assessed.
293407/01/2016, 17:51 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hi guys. Just to say. The 
2935
2936communities forum on which I had written the call for 'fellow workers, 
2937
2938trade unionists and activists' to come and say hi to us on the picket 
2939
2940lines has been locked behind a password screen. It had initially been 
2941
2942retweeted by the official BMA twitter feed, shared by many on JDC thru 
2943
2944facebook and was in line with the one.profession website invitation for 
2945
2946public to attend pickets. Was going to be am extremely popular 
2947
2948page...with increasing page views (nearly 10000 so far) Unfortunately 
2949
2950it now seems a decision was made to jump to the Daily Mail/Telegraph 
2951
2952tune and it is now impossible for normal members of the public and 
2953
2954activists to access the message. I do not know how or by whom the 
2955
2956decision was made and i am not asking for a clarification on this. I 
2957
2958would just like to make clear that i am saddened by that decision. One 
2959
2960observation which i will make is this: we have to realise that the MORE 
2961
2962successful our message is in getting out to the public the GREATER the 
2963
2964backlash will be from certain newspaper groups headlines. Comms are 
2965
2966going to need to learn this and accept it. Anyway..not going to go on 
2967
2968about this....not now. Lets crack on.
296907/01/2016, 17:56 - K Mohan: Following on from Yannis, what is the JDC 
2970
2971position on other unions coming to our pickets. I thought it was OK as 
2972
2973Yannis says. But I got an email this afternoon from a member of our 
2974
2975secretariat forwarding an email from one of our south thames tuc groups 
2976
2977emails - and I was asked to tell them not to come as the BMA wanted it 
2978
2979to be junior doctors only. 
2980
2981I presume this was sent in error?
298207/01/2016, 17:58 - A Collins: I presume it was sent deliberately but 
2983
2984was wrong... 
2985I would think that given the messaging we've been sending out over the 
2986
2987last wee while including things like Yannis's posts we are going to 
2988
2989look rather scared if we bow down to the telegraph now.
299007/01/2016, 17:59 - A Collins: I'm not totally rampant about the idea 
2991
2992of inviting wide ranging unions in a workers call to arms to come to 
2993
2994the pickets, but I certainly think we should welcome all sensible on 
2995
2996message visitors who are not causing trouble and if I have a g&t I 
2997
2998might even suggest we invite the other health care unions.
299907/01/2016, 18:02 - C Castles: I thought pickets were limited to a 
3000
3001small, set number of people, working at that site, involved in the 
3002
3003pertinent trade dispute
300407/01/2016, 18:04 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The official picketers are 6. But 
3005
3006as many can VISIT as long as not disruptive and disperse if issues 
3007
3008arise with police...and issues do not arise.
300907/01/2016, 18:09 - A Collins: If issues arise yannis will be on call 
3010
3011via VC to officially stand down the militants :p
301207/01/2016, 18:09 - E McCourt: I've just forwarded a little something 
3013
3014that came via Yorkshire from HEE.
301507/01/2016, 18:09 - A Collins: Yes thanks it redoubled my migraine. :p
301607/01/2016, 18:10 - A Collins: (it is interesting and important though)
301707/01/2016, 18:32 - K Mohan: I just got the HEE letter too.
301807/01/2016, 18:36 - D Rouse: The next Jdc is the 18th Jan right
301907/01/2016, 18:36 - E McCourt: Yes
302007/01/2016, 18:36 - C Castles: Ah. Is anyone able to visit a picket? 
3021
3022Even if we don't officially invite someone, is there anything doing 
3023
3024them from visiting anyway?
302507/01/2016, 18:36 - D Rouse: Do we have times
302607/01/2016, 18:37 - C Castles: Doing was meant to be stopping in my 
3027
3028last comment
302907/01/2016, 18:39 - B Roberts: Conan, do you feel a bit weird about OUR 
3030
3031banner becoming a talisman?
303207/01/2016, 18:43 - E McCourt: 10/1015 until we're done at around about 
3033
3034normal finish time I guess David.
303507/01/2016, 18:46 - H Carter: Hi All. The banner is sorted. Somebody 
3036
3037will need to collect it from BMA house and I'm just confirming who will 
3038
3039hand it over. This needs to be done tomorrow ideally.
304007/01/2016, 18:47 - B Roberts: My banner!
304107/01/2016, 18:49 - K Mohan: I've wangled myself off being on-call 
3042
3043tomorrow so I can collect it. Presumably I can just carry it home aka 
3044
3045it's not too heavy for one person to carry.
304607/01/2016, 18:50 - H Carter: I don't know the answer to that because 
3047
3048I've never actually seen it.
304907/01/2016, 18:53 - D Rouse: Lovely.
305007/01/2016, 19:04 - K Mohan: Ha. Our banner now. Bethy how heavy is it?
305107/01/2016, 19:27 - B Roberts: Probably need two people particularly if 
3052
3053you're short... The poles might be unwieldy if you're carrying it 
3054
3055single-handedly... We are one profession, we stand together, it's 
3056
3057EVERYONE'S banner!
305807/01/2016, 19:28 - K Mohan: so i can't carry it to take it home 
3059
3060tomorrow? then i'll erm bring my car to the bma?
306107/01/2016, 19:29 - B Roberts: Maybe try and stick the poles together 
3062
3063with heavy duty tape to see if you can take it on the 68 bus?
306407/01/2016, 19:29 - K Mohan: or 168. don't forget the 168. (it's just 
3065
3066become a new routemaster. disgraceful).
306707/01/2016, 19:29 - B Roberts: Or 171 if you're feeling adventurous!
306807/01/2016, 19:30 - K Mohan: no. that's a step too far
306907/01/2016, 19:30 - B Roberts: You can take the girl out of London but 
3070
3071she'll still remember all the bus routes!
307207/01/2016, 19:32 - K Mohan: ;)
307307/01/2016, 19:36 - C Castles: Yeah, that became the Wales/NI banner
307407/01/2016, 19:39 - C Castles: I suggest getting two people of roughly 
3075
3076even height to hold it. And take care in wind
307707/01/2016, 19:42 - J Malawana: Yannis not my decision. I am guessing 
3078
3079it maybe because it's been used so much against you and the BMA.
308007/01/2016, 19:42 - J Malawana: I will find out.
308107/01/2016, 19:57 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Had discussion with Johann. R.e 
3082
3083my post. Happy with resolution. As said before...let's crack on and see 
3084
3085some of u on saturday.
308607/01/2016, 20:04 - L Boyle: Collins & I will hold it wearing matching 
3087
3088pea coats.
308907/01/2016, 20:58 - D Rouse: What day and channel was the paxman 
3090
3091interview
309207/01/2016, 20:58 - D Rouse: Just Wana see it
309307/01/2016, 20:59 - ?L Elliott: Where are the videos? The link in the 
3094
3095BMA email doesn't take me to any videos when I click on it on my phone?
309607/01/2016, 21:48 - C Bell: From a mail journo I may or may not have 
3097
3098accidentally had a thing with. Am digging. 'been tipped off therers a 
3099
3100huge story in indy tomorrow about junior dr campaign exposing govt. 
3101
3102it's front page'
310307/01/2016, 21:49 - C Castles: Accidentally had a thing with?
310407/01/2016, 21:49 - A Yassaee: He tripped and fell.
310507/01/2016, 21:51 - C Bell: Yes, I definitely tripped
310607/01/2016, 21:53 - A Collins: Over and over and over. Perhaps it was 
3107
3108the poor journo who fell for Charlie?
310907/01/2016, 21:56 - J Malawana: It's an article about the keogh letter
311007/01/2016, 21:56 - A Collier Which letter, the one about responding to 
3111
3112major incidents?
311307/01/2016, 21:56 - J Malawana: They sexed up the major incident 
3114
3115letter.
311607/01/2016, 21:57 - J Malawana: I think there is a redacted letter.
311707/01/2016, 21:58 - J Malawana: It's actually on the Facebook group
311807/01/2016, 22:30 - Z Greaves: 'Email reveals how 'neutral' nhs chief 
3119
3120was encouraged to build up terror threat' ... nicely sums quite how low 
3121
3122they'll go
312307/01/2016, 22:30 - Y Gourtsouyannis: This is explosive
312407/01/2016, 22:43 - C Bell: Yup
312507/01/2016, 22:45 - M Redman: Could our what's app group get FOId?
312607/01/2016, 22:46 - A Collier No, we're just group of friends
312707/01/2016, 22:46 - A Collier :-)
312807/01/2016, 22:47 - A Collier More seriously, the FOI rules don't apply 
3129
3130to the BMA as we're not a public body.
313107/01/2016, 22:47 - T Crocker-Buque: Isn't Kitty at the DH at the 
3132
3133moment? ??
313407/01/2016, 22:48 - M Redman: Ahhh...
313507/01/2016, 22:48 - A Collier She doesn't like us to mention that!
313607/01/2016, 22:50 - B Roberts: No chance of FOI for WhatsApp but I am 
3137
3138perennially paranoid that we might get hacked News of the World 
3139
3140style...
314107/01/2016, 22:52 - J Malawana: The reason I use whatsapp is its 
3142
3143security is decryption is extremely powerful.
314407/01/2016, 22:52 - M Redman: Me too. Can we change 'JDC Exec' to 
3145
3146'eXec-Men' or something cooler (and more gender neutral ??)
314707/01/2016, 22:57 - K Mohan: I did work experience at the news of the 
3148
3149world. They made me phone lots of people come to think of it...
315007/01/2016, 22:58 - A Borbora: Good to see hunt has been exposed. Defo 
3151
3152going to help winding people up to take action
315307/01/2016, 23:04 - C Bell: Surely Keogh must resign?
315407/01/2016, 23:04 - C Bell: This is terrible for him
315507/01/2016, 23:06 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Someone (not me) needs to start a 
3156
3157hashtag 'keogh must go'
315807/01/2016, 23:08 - C Castles: #keoghandfuckyourself
315907/01/2016, 23:10 - M Redman: There's a petition ofc
316007/01/2016, 23:10 - M Redman: https://t.co/ixV3NcE0vF
316107/01/2016, 23:12 - A Yassaee: Oh for goodness sake Cameron Stocks
316207/01/2016, 23:12 - A Yassaee: Why did the first petition have to look 
3163
3164so ridiculous?
316507/01/2016, 23:12 - C Castles: Haha
316607/01/2016, 23:13 - C Castles: Yeah, the scab bit isn't that helpful
316707/01/2016, 23:14 - A Yassaee: I sometimes wonder if he's actually a 
3168
3169Tory mole
317007/01/2016, 23:15 - A Borbora: Anyone seen the videos on the Bma site? 
3171
3172I can't find them.....
317307/01/2016, 23:16 - M Redman: Bma has tweeted and fbed them
317407/01/2016, 23:18 - A Sami: I have seen yours, Aaron. If you click the 
3175
3176tab on Why we are striking and there you are in a very measured tone 
3177
3178and a posh accent!
317907/01/2016, 23:19 - ?L Elliott: I asked that before as the link in the 
3180
3181email today from BMA doesn't take you to them.
318207/01/2016, 23:19 - ?L Elliott: Oh it's not very obvious where they are 
3183
3184then.
318507/01/2016, 23:20 - A Sami: Yeah, the link takes you the oneprofession 
3186
3187website. and then you have to click on why we are striking
318807/01/2016, 23:22 - A Borbora: My moment of fame lol
318907/01/2016, 23:23 - A Yassaee: I liked that you actually sounded like 
3190
3191you weren't reading off a cue
319207/01/2016, 23:27 - ?L Elliott: Aaron is very good at speaking like 
3193
3194that - he did a very good job today at the mersey meeting and answered 
3195
3196some quite difficult questions I thought. Not that I'm biased... 
3197But the videos should be more prominent and easy to find
319807/01/2016, 23:32 - ?L Elliott: I can only see 1 video on Twitter...
319907/01/2016, 23:32 - C Castles: There are 6 I think, but they run one 
3200
3201after the other
320207/01/2016, 23:33 - C Bell: I'm dead serious, we should be calling for 
3203
3204him to go
320507/01/2016, 23:34 - C Castles: Aaron? He wasn't that bad
320607/01/2016, 23:34 - C Bell: ;) personal opinion
320707/01/2016, 23:35 - C Castles: JK Aaron
320807/01/2016, 23:41 - A Borbora: Haha I joked about that tonight!
320907/01/2016, 23:42 - ?L Elliott: Oh the one on twitter is like18 secs
321007/01/2016, 23:44 - A Borbora: Twitter? Far too modern for me even on 
3211
3212my new phone
321307/01/2016, 23:44 - C Bell: But are we going to call for it?
321407/01/2016, 23:47 - A Yassaee: Officially you mean?
321507/01/2016, 23:48 - A Borbora: What have I done?!
321607/01/2016, 23:50 - A Yassaee: Unsurprisingly, a number of his former 
3217
3218fellows have written to him asking him to resign
321907/01/2016, 23:53 - C Bell: Yes
322007/01/2016, 23:53 - C Bell: We should make something of this
322107/01/2016, 23:56 - A Sami: I am trying to see what i son his twitter 
3222
3223account and all I can see is something from Christmas time! How can I 
3224
3225see what people tweeting him about things?
322607/01/2016, 23:59 - C Castles: No idea. I dont know how the hell to use 
3227
3228Twitter
322908/01/2016, 00:00 - A Yassaee: I am glad though that people now realise 
3230
3231just how wet he is. The bruce fanclubs at conferences was getting 
3232
3233tedious.
323408/01/2016, 00:12 - H Carter: He doesn't use Twitter that often.
323508/01/2016, 00:24 - J Malawana: I seriously think keogh should resign. 
3236
3237What a disgrace that man has become. Him and Norman Williams really 
3238
3239deserve to be absolutely pilloried.
324008/01/2016, 00:25 - A Collier I agree I think we would be right to 
3241
3242publicly call for him to resign
324308/01/2016, 00:25 - J Malawana: This is Mmc all over again. Senior 
3244
3245medics basically hiding behind the politicians when actually they 
3246
3247failed to put their professional standards before their naked ambition.
324808/01/2016, 00:25 - K Mohan: yes agree
324908/01/2016, 00:36 - Y Gourtsouyannis: How
325008/01/2016, 00:36 - C Castles: Do we do it as a motion at jdc?
325108/01/2016, 00:37 - J Malawana: Perhaps we do a motion at JDC asking 
3252
3253JDC to formally write a letter to sir Bruce asking him why he felt it 
3254
3255appropriate to be used to attack his junior colleagues.
325608/01/2016, 00:38 - J Malawana: Then when he doesn't respond we 
3257
3258escalate.
325908/01/2016, 00:38 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Timeframes?
326008/01/2016, 00:38 - C Castles: He might resign before then....
326108/01/2016, 00:39 - A Yassaee: I think it's sensible to start with a 
3262
3263letter saying all the right things that could protract the media cycle 
3264
3265with actually calling for his resignation
326608/01/2016, 00:39 - A Yassaee: Without*
326708/01/2016, 00:40 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Within a week this story could 
3268
3269potentially be buried and overshadowed by events tho
327008/01/2016, 00:44 - K Mohan: What about council? It's before JDC 
3271
3272thought
327308/01/2016, 00:44 - K Mohan: Though even
327408/01/2016, 00:47 - H Carter: What, that 'lefty dominated' group.....?
327508/01/2016, 00:50 - J Malawana: I asked. Bugger it.
327608/01/2016, 00:51 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Council?
327708/01/2016, 00:51 - J Malawana: Let's stick the grenade in and keep 
3278
3279them busy so they aren't interfering in our stuff next week.
328008/01/2016, 00:51 - J Malawana: Yep
328108/01/2016, 00:53 - J Malawana: I am actually genuinely fuming about 
3282
3283keogh. It really pisses me off, it feels exactly like Mmc all over 
3284
3285again.
328608/01/2016, 00:53 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
328708/01/2016, 00:53 - K Mohan: Go to sleep.
328808/01/2016, 00:53 - K Mohan: (Johann I mean)
328908/01/2016, 00:54 - C Castles: I see you keep getting called a 
3290
3291negotiator yannis
329208/01/2016, 00:54 - J Malawana: It's who I am blaming when the 
3293
3294negotiations all go to shit
329508/01/2016, 00:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: No probs.
329608/01/2016, 00:55 - J Malawana: Lol
329708/01/2016, 00:55 - C Castles: Haha
329808/01/2016, 00:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Also. That article brings PTSD 
3299
3300out in me!
330108/01/2016, 00:55 - J Malawana: Honestly. That Yannis.
330208/01/2016, 00:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: So enuf o that
330308/01/2016, 00:55 - A Yassaee: Was this in the Times?
330408/01/2016, 00:55 - J Malawana: Loves a bit of extra London weighting
330508/01/2016, 00:56 - K Mohan: I thought that is why we're saying Tom is 
3306
3307still a junior. Don't worry Yannis, as long as Tom is around he'll 
3308
3309always get the blame!
331008/01/2016, 00:56 - J Malawana: By the way that picture is gold
331108/01/2016, 00:56 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ok...back to Bruce Keogh! :-)
331208/01/2016, 00:56 - J Malawana: Can we get a really good close up of it 
3313
3314for the picture for the group?
331508/01/2016, 00:57 - K Mohan: Lol. The photo is amazing. You look 
3316
3317properly crazy. :)
331808/01/2016, 00:57 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Yup. My tranquil telegraph photo 
3319
3320is much better.
332108/01/2016, 00:57 - Y Gourtsouyannis: So....BRUCE KEOGH!!
332208/01/2016, 00:57 - J Malawana: If this is what they are doing pre 
3323
3324strike.
332508/01/2016, 00:58 - J Malawana: God only knows what shit they will have 
3326
3327on you on the day of the strike.
332808/01/2016, 00:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I think they have used up all 
3329
3330they've got
333108/01/2016, 00:58 - J Malawana: No no.
333208/01/2016, 00:58 - J Malawana: I don't think they have.
333308/01/2016, 00:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Except for my swingers parties
333408/01/2016, 00:59 - J Malawana: Do you do any photography?
333508/01/2016, 00:59 - J Malawana: Maybe I should tell them we are going 
3336
3337into business together.
333808/01/2016, 01:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I have a small business in 
3339
3340novelty Karl Marx mugs
334108/01/2016, 01:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Sell them at country fairs around 
3342
3343the country
334408/01/2016, 01:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: ....ok fun over.
334508/01/2016, 01:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Nite nite
334608/01/2016, 01:01 - J Malawana: Sell? I thought you only bartered
334708/01/2016, 01:01 - J Malawana: ?
334808/01/2016, 01:02 - K Mohan: Lol. Night. GO TO SLEEP.
334908/01/2016, 01:03 - C Castles: I want a marx mug
335008/01/2016, 01:03 - H Carter: Goodnight, Kitty
335108/01/2016, 01:03 - C Castles: As in, a mug to drink from, I don't want 
3352
3353a face like marx
335408/01/2016, 08:11 - C Bell: So - Bruce Keogh?
335508/01/2016, 08:16 - A Collins: Completely discredited?
335608/01/2016, 08:19 - J Malawana: Let's see what the organisation decides 
3357
3358to do. Leave it to council to argue it out. It's good as it's like 
3359
3360mentioning car parking to consultants. Ties them up for 
3361
3362days/weeks/months.
336308/01/2016, 08:20 - J Malawana: Right now we need to get on with our 
3364
3365jobs and not be interfered with. So this is a nice way of keeping them 
3366
3367fully distracted whilst we can get on with our jobs.
336808/01/2016, 08:41 - K Mohan: Exactly. I think we've left Council to 
3369
3370ponder that one nicely. I'm not intending to wade back into the 
3371
3372discussion.
337308/01/2016, 08:41 - K Mohan: Apols for sounding like a broken record 
3374
3375but who do I go and speak to to get the banner?
337608/01/2016, 08:48 - Z Greaves: There's a new keogh resignation letter 
3377
3378up 
3379https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JyzzDo14l_hcCZtLc4QnEKPjYvpwwEaMyBkZ6t
3380
3381hhdvE/viewform?usp=send_form
338208/01/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: I thought Harry was getting it?
338308/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: Hugh should have been given it.
338408/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: Or knows where to get it.
338508/01/2016, 09:05 - K Mohan: Ok. I don't think Harry is in town. He 
3386
3387said yesterday one of us should get it. Unless you want get it if 
3388
3389you're at the bma?
339008/01/2016, 09:11 - K Mohan: I don't mind coming up to get it but 
3391
3392clearly if I don't have to that's even better.
339308/01/2016, 09:32 - J Malawana: If you can that would be good as just 
3394
3395don't know when I can be certain to do it.
339608/01/2016, 09:34 - K Mohan: Ok. I'll speak to Hugh.
339708/01/2016, 09:45 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hi exec. Have made the decision 
3398
3399to take a low profile next few days. Had been asked by Danielle the 
3400
3401nursing student behind tmros protest to speak just before her at the 
3402
3403end of the rally. I thinks its best if its not me making the speech. 
3404
3405Could one of u guys...kitty? Johann? (Because i know u guys are going) 
3406
3407or anybody on exec who wants to..to speak instead? Would be just a few 
3408
3409mins speech.
341008/01/2016, 09:54 - C Bell: I offered (as a student) and was told no. I 
3411
3412now have to be interviewing for undergraduates tomorrow, but i do think 
3413
3414it'd be useful for someone to do it - there'd be people on our 
3415
3416committee if you needed
341708/01/2016, 09:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Thanks charlie. Ideally one of 
3418
3419exec tho. Kitty?
342008/01/2016, 09:55 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Could give u a speech that can 
3421
3422edit if dnt have time to prep. Just a short speech.
342308/01/2016, 09:57 - J Malawana: I am happy to if they would want us to.
342408/01/2016, 09:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: They would b very pleased with u 
3425
3426speaking. I will call danielle and tell her latr today.
342708/01/2016, 10:11 - K Mohan: yeah - sarah and i will be there but am 
3428
3429sure they'd prefer to have johann doing it.
343008/01/2016, 10:17 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Great. Kitty u can be the 
3431
3432understudy if Johann gets a sore throat!
343308/01/2016, 10:20 - K Mohan: I'll just have to hit him over the head 
3434
3435with "Bethan's banner" to take him out of action just before he's due 
3436
3437to speak. ;)
343808/01/2016, 10:37 - J Malawana: The colleges know Tuesday is happening 
3439
3440and should stay neutral.
344108/01/2016, 10:41 - B Roberts: Is any guidance being issues to gently 
3442
3443remind people that a strike isn't a freebie duvet day and that if (IF) 
3444
3445they cave into our demands and the strike is called off at 10am on 
3446
3447Tuesday, people need to be going back to work?
344808/01/2016, 10:41 - B Roberts: Issued, even! Damn autocorrect!
344908/01/2016, 10:42 - E McCourt: <Media omitted>
345008/01/2016, 10:42 - K Mohan: yeah the cc list server is going ballistic 
3451
3452over this. it's crap
345308/01/2016, 10:43 - K Mohan: typical shaun lintern
345408/01/2016, 10:45 - K Mohan: regarding bethan's message - johann are 
3455
3456you getting a battle-cry video out? that would do the trick. it's 
3457
3458definitely needed. we are consistently hearing that people are planning 
3459
3460to stay at home and either sleep/ whatever or prep for speciality 
3461
3462interviews next week. either way, the visibility of juniors is 
3463
3464currently going to be non-existant
346508/01/2016, 10:48 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Johann just spoke to 
3466
3467Danielle...she is very pleased u are speaking tmri! Just turn up and 
3468
3469they will b expecting u.
347008/01/2016, 10:52 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
347108/01/2016, 10:58 - A Collins: :)
347208/01/2016, 11:03 - L J Davis: We're doing a meet the Drs by mummies 
3473
3474and toddlers here... I will cascade the idea out if people think it's 
3475
3476good...
347708/01/2016, 11:15 - C Bell: I'm not making a fuss, but the nurses are 
3478
3479students, and I really think we should be leading on this at the demo, 
3480
3481as students. But it seems this is happening and we'll just suck it on 
3482
3483this occasion.
348408/01/2016, 11:15 - J Malawana: Here are the briefing notes. 
3485
3486http://www.bma.org.uk/juniorbriefings
348708/01/2016, 11:15 - J Malawana: I am happy to defer to you guys 
3488
3489Charlie.
349008/01/2016, 11:15 - J Malawana: I wasn't planning on speaking. Just 
3491
3492coming along.
349308/01/2016, 11:16 - J Malawana: So was only cos Yannis has got his 
3494
3495little issue :-) that I was going to cover.
349608/01/2016, 11:20 - C Bell: I think given how close we are its better 
3497
3498you do it - but in terms of our institutional involvement in future we 
3499
3500prob should liaise
350108/01/2016, 11:21 - J Malawana: I have asked Danielle if we can both 
3502
3503speak.
350408/01/2016, 11:21 - J Malawana: She texted. Have offered to split any 
3505
3506time she has to give me so doesn't affect her schedule.
350708/01/2016, 11:22 - J Malawana: Also maybe a good thing to share the 
3508
3509platform etc.
351008/01/2016, 11:22 - C Bell: Ok great - dyou have tom rocks details?
351108/01/2016, 11:34 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Good stuff guys. Both of you 
3512
3513speaking sounds great.
351408/01/2016, 12:34 - K Mohan: Right "banner-gate" continues. Hugh is 
3515
3516working from home so Dan is now on the case to retrieve the banner and 
3517
3518let me know where it is.
351908/01/2016, 12:49 - K Mohan: quick question - i'm being asked about the 
3520
3521£2.55 an hour quoted in joann's tweet about non res.
352208/01/2016, 12:49 - K Mohan: even under the govts increased basic offer 
3523
3524st3/4 node is £42500/annum
352508/01/2016, 12:50 - K Mohan: which is £817.31 per week
352608/01/2016, 12:51 - K Mohan: which (with 40 basic hours) is £20.43 per 
3527
3528hour
352908/01/2016, 12:52 - K Mohan: which at 2-6% is £0.40-£1.23 per hour
353008/01/2016, 12:53 - K Mohan: how have we ended up with double that 
3531
3532being stated?
353308/01/2016, 14:11 - H Carter: Kitty, sorry about the banner situation. 
3534
3535It is ready to be used. Hugh didn't say that he'd be working from home 
3536
3537when I asked him to confirm where it would be.
353808/01/2016, 14:12 - K Mohan: Don't worry. Dan has it now. I sent him on 
3539
3540a covert operation to go an extricate it from wherever it may be 
3541
3542without being spotted. (Not for any particular reason - just because I 
3543
3544thought it would make his day more fun). I'm going to go collect it 
3545
3546shortly.
354708/01/2016, 14:12 - H Carter: Haha
354808/01/2016, 14:13 - H Carter: I can't believe it takes so much effort 
3549
3550for us to get a bloody banner
355108/01/2016, 14:17 - E McCourt: Doing some phone maths, I think 2.55 is 
3552
3553near enough the 4% rate, if worked out as uplift 4% of total basic 
3554
3555salary rather than 4% of hourly rate. I think. I'm a bit sleepy though.
355608/01/2016, 14:17 - E McCourt: I'm not with my finance sheets to double 
3557
3558check for sure.
355908/01/2016, 14:52 - A Sami: OK
3560
3561I need to pick your thoughts on a challenge I am facing. 
3562
3563Email lists by trusts!
3564
3565My suggestion is to have an email address for each trust. When I send 
3566
3567an email to that address, it gets delivered to juniors their. Something 
3568
3569like what we do when emailing the listserver.
3570
3571Due to various challenges and the festive holidays, this took a while 
3572
3573to get to the right person, who cannot do much today and Monday to get 
3574
3575it sorted.
3576
3577The lists exist or can be extracted manually with not too much effort. 
3578
3579It is just how they can dress it so that Data Protection Act is 
3580
3581satisfied.
3582
3583BMA staff, centrally and regionally, are able to access and see. This 
3584
3585is because ethey are employees. 
3586
3587The sticking ponit it seems to be when it gets to us, as regional 
3588
3589chairs and elected officers. We are not employees.
3590
3591We are the BMA!
359208/01/2016, 14:53 - J Malawana: Exactly. We are the BMA and have roles.
359308/01/2016, 14:54 - K Mohan: Hi Amjad - a few questions. Is this list 
3594
3595for BMA members only in each trust - and can it be done for junior 
3596
3597members only if so?
359808/01/2016, 14:55 - K Mohan: If so, can we send text to *someone* to 
3599
3600send out to juniors at the trust?
360108/01/2016, 14:55 - K Mohan: the issue is that it may not be us trying 
3602
3603to send the message but our trust reps - how does that fit in?
360408/01/2016, 15:18 - A Sami: Hi Kitty
3605
3606As regional chair, I can email the whole region through the webpage, as 
3607
3608you know.
3609
3610My reps are having difficulty in some trusts to email colleagues with 
3611
3612details of IA plans. Not everyone on facebook etc.
3613
3614If I want to help, I would spam the whole region with details of action 
3615
3616for one trust.
3617
3618Admin staff at regional office can request lists (and get it) and email 
3619
3620juniors per individual trust but not allow me to do the same.
3621
3622A lot of our communication happens OOH. It is not always feasible to 
3623
3624wait to the next working day to forward emails to BMA regional offices 
3625
3626amto be sent out.
3627
3628Not all reps have the best relations with HR or postgrad (or should I 
3629
3630say HR and postgrad can be obstructive)
3631
3632I want these lists created and at least made available to regional 
3633
3634chairs, not the trust reps, at this stage. 
3635
3636Reps can then email the chair with their plans and the chair forward 
3637
3638them.
3639
3640Otherwise, it is a long wait to get all trusts plans ready for one 
3641
3642regional emails. 
3643
3644In this day and age, this is what reps are needing.
364508/01/2016, 15:36 - K Mohan: absolutely agree. just today i've been 
3646
3647trouble shooting issues regarding exactly this in about 6 of our 
3648
3649trusts. this sounds like a great idea. really support it. how do you 
3650
3651think you can make it happen (the question you're asking i guess!)...
365208/01/2016, 15:37 - A Sami: My suggestion is based on the following 
3653
3654assumptions
365508/01/2016, 15:37 - A Sami: We have data base for junior doctors as 
3656
3657members of the bMA
365808/01/2016, 15:42 - A Sami: Then this gets filtered by regions. This 
3659
3660allows me, you and other chairs emailing our regional members without 
3661
3662knowing the details of such lists  like we do in the listserver. You 
3663
3664send it to exec and exec members receive it.
3665
3666The BMA can either filter the regional data down to by trust basis. And 
3667
3668then "dress it" by an email address. For example, Sheffield doctors 
3669
3670will be under sheffieldjuniors@bma.org.uk
3671
3672Something we use in our hospital. I can email ED Registrar and it gets 
3673
3674delivered.
3675
3676Or, they allow regional chairs to become "part of the BMA" and give 
3677
3678them access to the regional lists, like our admin staff in regional 
3679
3680office can.
3681
3682The former might be better long term as lists can get out of date in a 
3683
3684big way each August.
368508/01/2016, 15:44 - K Mohan: Yeah we do something similar at work for 
3686
3687sending PI to confidential mailing lists.
368808/01/2016, 15:45 - K Mohan: Sounds like it could be fairly easily done 
3689
3690using a computer programme written in something like stata
369108/01/2016, 15:46 - K Mohan: But am sure the BMA could just do it 
3692
3693quickly too
369408/01/2016, 15:59 - A Borbora: It should be possible with the "we 
3695
3696connect" system the BMA uses
369708/01/2016, 15:59 - A Borbora: It may take some time to set up
369808/01/2016, 16:00 - A Sami: Yeah, "We Engage" system. But there seem to 
3699
3700be no enough time to get it ready by Monday evening
370108/01/2016, 16:01 - A Borbora: Sounds reasonable - at least it's 
3702
3703happening
370408/01/2016, 16:03 - A Sami: Let's wait and see. I am getting there in 
3705
3706the end. I guess my frustration is that the distinction by the Data 
3707
3708Protection law between employees of the BMA and the elected members of 
3709
3710the BMA . There might not be much that we can do about that. Rant over!
371108/01/2016, 16:17 - A Sami: This is a good motivational read! Apologies 
3712
3713for the swearing!  http://www.secretbatcave.co.uk/other/the-nhs-a-
3714
3715lesson-in-politics-part-vii/
371608/01/2016, 16:20 - T Crocker-Buque: Hi all - today I received and 8 
3717
3718page missive from Mike Durkin, Ian Cumming and Dan Mortimer explaining 
3719
3720how I've been mostly by the BMA and should not take IA. Has this gone 
3721
3722to everyone?
372308/01/2016, 16:20 - K Mohan: Yup.
372408/01/2016, 16:20 - T Crocker-Buque: It's pretty rage inducing
372508/01/2016, 16:21 - K Mohan: Yup.
372608/01/2016, 16:25 - T Crocker-Buque: Is there a plan to respond to it? 
3727
3728Particularly some of the more egregious falsehoods espoused?
372908/01/2016, 16:26 - C Castles: Is mortimer not out of that job?
373008/01/2016, 17:39 - A Collins: "how I've mostly been by the BMA" duped 
3731
3732by the BMA I assume?
373308/01/2016, 17:40 - J Malawana: Huh?
373408/01/2016, 17:40 - A Collins: Tim cb"s message above...
373508/01/2016, 17:40 - J Malawana: Oh. Lol.
373608/01/2016, 17:42 - J Malawana: Yeah I have been hearing how DH 
3737
3738consider BMA are some Comms and social media terrorist geniuses making 
3739
3740our terrorist recruits going into the news and attacking hard working 
3741
3742the sos and poor Bruce Keogh.
374308/01/2016, 17:48 - T Crocker-Buque: "misled" I think was the missing 
3744
3745word in my message,  but duped would work!
374608/01/2016, 17:50 - J Malawana: They are having some weird breakdown on 
3747
3748the other side
374908/01/2016, 17:51 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Tell us more?
375008/01/2016, 17:52 - J Malawana: Just bunker mentality.
375108/01/2016, 17:52 - J Malawana: Getting angry.
375208/01/2016, 17:52 - A Collins: Can we refer them to Andrew and Chris 
3753
3754for assessment? ??
375508/01/2016, 17:52 - J Malawana: Think we are deliberately ruining their 
3756
3757lives.
375808/01/2016, 17:52 - J Malawana: Weirdos
375908/01/2016, 17:52 - Z Greaves: What they thought that spin didn't work 
3760
3761both ways :P
376208/01/2016, 17:53 - A Collins: What they thought highly qualified 
3763
3764professionals who talk for a living wouldn't be able to present info? 
3765
3766Teehee
376708/01/2016, 17:54 - Z Greaves: They go for yannis we take keogh - like 
3768
3769chess
377008/01/2016, 17:58 - K Mohan: Basically we need to kill their queen 
3771
3772before they kill ours...
377308/01/2016, 17:59 - K Mohan: Who's going to be "tribute" for queen?
377408/01/2016, 18:00 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I volunteer
377508/01/2016, 18:00 - K Mohan: #yannisistributeforqueenjohann
377608/01/2016, 18:00 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Well...think the media havade 
3777
3778decision already :-)
377908/01/2016, 18:01 - D Rouse: Kitty are you the queen
378008/01/2016, 18:01 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I'll take the heat so johann can 
3781
3782b the good guy. Plan all along eh johann? ;-)
378308/01/2016, 18:01 - D Rouse: I've been called a queen once but think it 
3784
3785was a different context
378608/01/2016, 18:54 - D Rouse: Oh kitty you're always the queen of JDC 
3787
3788UK. So you fancy axe sword or burning at a stake
378908/01/2016, 19:13 - K Mohan: Ha. So how did acas go? Have they returned 
3790
3791yet?
379208/01/2016, 19:14 - D Rouse: They're all on their way home
379308/01/2016, 19:14 - D Rouse: Not much to report
379408/01/2016, 19:20 - A Borbora: As David says 
3795A useful day but not much of note. 
3796ACAS have issued a bland press statement that we met but have been 
3797
3798unable to call off IA. If questioned about why we aren't meeting over 
3799
3800the weekend they have said that there is a lot to be done before the 
3801
3802parties are ready to progress abd talks will resume after tues. 
3803our press office is aware
380408/01/2016, 19:20 - K Mohan: Thanks Aaron. Hope it wasn't too much of a 
3805
3806nightmare. :)
380708/01/2016, 19:21 - K Mohan: Is the acas statement public.
380808/01/2016, 19:21 - A Borbora: It was actually fun. In an odd kinda 
3809
3810way. Got a buzz 
3811Yes it should be but check ACAS before tweeting - it'll be on their 
3812
3813website
381408/01/2016, 19:23 - A Borbora: My train is delayed 
3815I think Yannis has got the train drivers to leave their trains to join 
3816
3817Bma pickets 
3818Mark porter is meeting the head of the railway board as they want to 
3819
3820sue the Bma for the delays.
382108/01/2016, 19:26 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
382208/01/2016, 19:43 - M Redman: Nice work kitty - we need to spread that 
3823
3824widely!
382508/01/2016, 19:44 - M Redman: Is the secret doctor lots of different 
3826
3827people?
382808/01/2016, 19:44 - A Borbora: That's the agreed statement
382908/01/2016, 19:44 - A Collier Ive previously been told it's just one.
383008/01/2016, 19:44 - A Borbora: If it's out its out
383108/01/2016, 19:46 - K Mohan: Why the secret doctor question, melody?
383208/01/2016, 19:46 - K Mohan: I've always thought it was you. ;)
383308/01/2016, 19:51 - M Redman: I SO DESPERATELY WANT TO KNOW WHO IT IS. 
3834
3835I love reading secret doctor. If you know them, tell them I'm a fan 
3836
3837????????
3838I want a pseudonym. I might try one...
3839
3840Also, I loved guardian article by 'the secret doctor' but if it was 
3841
3842same one they disclosed far more personal information than they 
3843
3844normally do, and also I didn't think they were ED.
384508/01/2016, 19:54 - K Mohan: I haven't seen that one. Can you send the 
3846
3847link?
384808/01/2016, 19:59 - M Redman: 
3849
3850http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/07/doctors-strike-
3851
3852jeremy-hunt-secret-doctor
385308/01/2016, 20:07 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
385408/01/2016, 20:07 - A Borbora: A (little) bit of me is sad not to have 
3855
3856been papped in a modern version of this photo
385708/01/2016, 20:17 - A Collier I thought that was taken today?!?
385808/01/2016, 20:18 - K Mohan: Yes doesn't the second guy along have a 
3859
3860MacBook Air under his arm...
386108/01/2016, 20:19 - A Borbora: The one at the back is whatsapping
386208/01/2016, 20:20 - D Tooth: The two at the back look prepared for a 
3863
3864selfie
386508/01/2016, 20:20 - K Mohan: You beat me to it, Donna. Lol.
386608/01/2016, 20:20 - D Tooth: Apologies all that I wasn't on form the 
3867
3868other night. I promise never to fall asleep in one of Johan's meetings 
3869
3870again!!
387108/01/2016, 20:21 - D Tooth: Bloody migraine!
387208/01/2016, 20:21 - K Mohan: I was concerned you'd died Donna, and we 
3873
3874would all that thought you were asleep and were watching a corpse.
387508/01/2016, 20:22 - K Mohan: The secret is to sleep with your eyes 
3876
3877open. I mostly do that when yoyo is talking.
387808/01/2016, 20:22 - D Tooth: That might help my recurrent corne erosion 
3879
3880too!! Thanks for the tip
388108/01/2016, 20:23 - K Mohan: Oh I promised Jeeves today we would refer 
3882
3883to the "Jo-fans" a lot. Yoyo really likes it when we do that.
388408/01/2016, 20:23 - K Mohan: Apparently.
388508/01/2016, 20:46 - J Malawana: Fuck off.
388608/01/2016, 20:47 - A Borbora: He confirmed it
388708/01/2016, 20:47 - A Borbora: And Jeeves is a straight up guy
388808/01/2016, 20:50 - D Rouse: Jo fans Hahahahha
388908/01/2016, 20:52 - A Borbora: I'm a so(lly) fan
389008/01/2016, 20:54 - A Borbora: Prize to whoever works it out
389108/01/2016, 20:54 - ?L Elliott: What's the prize?
389208/01/2016, 20:55 - A Borbora: A deliveroo?
389308/01/2016, 21:01 - K Mohan: :))
389408/01/2016, 21:09 - ?L Elliott: 
3895
3896https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Wand_Fund
3897Aaron won't shut up about me solving his cryptic clue
389808/01/2016, 21:10 - C Castles: I remember you mentioning something 
3899
3900about solly recently
390108/01/2016, 21:11 - ?L Elliott: He doesn't have his own wiki page
390208/01/2016, 21:11 - A Borbora: Deliveroo on me then
390308/01/2016, 21:12 - A Borbora: Lottie wins
390408/01/2016, 21:12 - A Borbora: Stopped at runcorn will be there in 20
390508/01/2016, 21:13 - ?L Elliott: Thanks for sharing with exec your 
3906
3907whereabouts. Jokes
390808/01/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: Well I'm in elephant and castle in case 
3909
3910you all wondered.
391108/01/2016, 21:20 - C Castles: I'm on the sofa watching Liverpool 
3912
3913losing
391408/01/2016, 21:29 - B Roberts: Now I'm really worried that I never even 
3915
3916considered the possibility that Donna might have been dead.
391708/01/2016, 21:29 - K Mohan: Bad Bethan!
391808/01/2016, 21:30 - C Castles: Johann spoke to check for a response, we 
3919
3920followed resus guidelines, we're all OK
392108/01/2016, 21:30 - A Sami: I was struggling to find a way to jaw 
3922
3923thrust Donba via VC.
392408/01/2016, 21:31 - D Tooth: You guys!!
392508/01/2016, 21:31 - B Roberts: She could have been putrefying in a 
3926
3927cupboard like your potato, Conan, and I didn't even care!
392808/01/2016, 21:31 - D Tooth: Thank god I was on mute!! There may have 
3929
3930been sound effects!
393108/01/2016, 21:31 - C Castles: You would have cared if you smelled it
393208/01/2016, 21:31 - A Borbora: Resus? What's that?
393308/01/2016, 21:32 - C Castles: A new technique to keep people's hopes 
3934
3935up
393608/01/2016, 21:35 - K Mohan: I noticed! I even wrote in the side bar on 
3937
3938Scopia.
393908/01/2016, 21:35 - A Sami: DNACPR order was in place
394008/01/2016, 21:36 - A Sami: For the duration of the meeting, though ??
394108/01/2016, 21:46 - E McCourt: Amjad! Go to work! One of us has to be 
3942
3943on time!
394408/01/2016, 21:47 - A Sami: Just leaving!lol
394508/01/2016, 21:50 - K Mohan: You two are so funny!
394608/01/2016, 21:52 - J Malawana: There is something weird about you two 
3947
3948working together.
394908/01/2016, 21:52 - J Malawana: Like real work
395008/01/2016, 21:59 - D Tooth: Did you ask my opinion about the dnacpr!?
395108/01/2016, 21:59 - D Tooth: Bad doctors!!
395208/01/2016, 22:00 - A Sami: I am here, Ellen. Where are you?!
3953
3954It was deemed too distressing to you, Donna. So we discussed with your 
3955
3956Exec family!
395708/01/2016, 22:19 - D Tooth: Thanks guys!!
395808/01/2016, 22:22 - L J Davis: Hey. Look on the bright side. They 
3959
3960checked. But they did absolutely NO safety netting.
396108/01/2016, 22:23 - L J Davis: Mutters to self... Worse...A&E...2 weeks 
3962
3963time... Mutter
3964??
396508/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collins: "it was nice to meet you today, I hope 
3966
3967you're feeling better soon. Remember if you're not feeling any less 
3968
3969dead in a few days pop back to us or your GP and if you get any more 
3970
3971dead over the next 24hrs we need to see you back..." 
3972
3973Is that the sort of thing Donna needed to be told?
397409/01/2016, 02:21 - L J Davis: Adam, you have it in a nutshell! 
3975
3976Well, except the timings, the diagnosis and the bit about it being 
3977
3978"nice" (there's no need to over egg the pudding!).
3979
3980??
398109/01/2016, 07:04 - D Tooth: I'm offended LJD!!
398209/01/2016, 09:24 - A Collins: Well, I'm only a f2 I can't be expected 
3983
3984to get the diagnosis and the detail and the comms skills all right! :p
398509/01/2016, 09:27 - D Tooth: There, there Adam!
398609/01/2016, 09:28 - E McCourt: But you'd ace the TTO?
398709/01/2016, 09:28 - D Tooth: Lol!! TTO for a dead person, great. Or the 
3988
3989certificate and certifying!
399009/01/2016, 09:28 - L J Davis: Oh good, Donna. I was just checking 
3991
3992you're not dead again ??
399309/01/2016, 09:29 - L J Davis: Plus how often do you say it's been nice 
3994
3995to see a patient? Honestly!
399609/01/2016, 09:30 - J Malawana: Damn it. When you woke up Adam saw his 
3997
3998ash cash disappear.
399909/01/2016, 09:30 - A Collins: I specialise in the TTO.
400009/01/2016, 09:30 - A Collins: Er, Johann, can you please not be so 
4001
4002London centric all the time?
400309/01/2016, 09:30 - A Collins: The Scots lost ash cash about 6 months 
4004
4005ago ????????
400609/01/2016, 09:31 - J Malawana: Really? I would complain
400709/01/2016, 09:31 - J Malawana: Ok so project mr motivator is now fully 
4008
4009underway.
401009/01/2016, 09:31 - J Malawana: Time to make sure the troops definitely 
4011
4012get out and get out good.
401309/01/2016, 09:31 - L J Davis: So, Johann has ASKED the fbgod to 
4014
4015comment on being mislead. Can we
401609/01/2016, 09:32 - E McCourt: Please. No Lycra.
401709/01/2016, 09:32 - L J Davis: Sstick the responses in a light show 
4018
4019across BMA house?
402009/01/2016, 09:33 - A Collins: Yeah, seriously they've done away with 
4021
4022the crem form, integrated a couple of qns about pacemakers into the 
4023
4024death cert and done away with the second opinion in favour of a random 
4025
40265 percent getting checked :o
402709/01/2016, 09:33 - L J Davis: Everyone seems to have major ?? for the 
4028
4029BMA so far...
403009/01/2016, 09:33 - A Collins: Johann I think if you did a Mr Motivator 
4031
4032I would be able to get on board with that. Perhaps I could lose some 
4033
4034weight so my designer t shirt fitted better?
403509/01/2016, 09:38 - A Sami: BBC has got it so different to what I know.
4036
4037Time and a third 19:00-22:00?
403809/01/2016, 09:38 - A Sami: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35268824#?
4039
4040utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
404109/01/2016, 09:46 - A Collins: Time and a third 2200-0700 is what that 
4042
4043article implies.
404409/01/2016, 09:46 - A Collins: But still wrong!
404509/01/2016, 09:47 - A Sami: "Junior doctors would receive time and a 
4046
4047half for any hours worked between 10pm and 7am, with time and a third 
4048
4049being paid for any hours worked between 7pm and 10pm on Saturdays or 
4050
4051Sundays."
405209/01/2016, 09:48 - K Mohan: So, I'm about to put a screen shot of all 
4053
4054the regional coordinators and contact emails on social media. Can 
4055
4056someone speak now if this is a bad thing to do?
405709/01/2016, 09:49 - K Mohan: Great.
405809/01/2016, 09:49 - K Mohan: Uh-Oh Amjad is typing. ;)
405909/01/2016, 09:49 - A Sami: I would not do it myself. I would email it 
4060
4061directly through a regional email
406209/01/2016, 09:50 - A Sami: That way it gets where it needs to get 
4063
4064without any unwanted attention from journalist
406509/01/2016, 09:50 - K Mohan: The problem is that people aren't 
4066
4067necessarily linked in correctly.
406809/01/2016, 09:50 - K Mohan: Happy to leave it though. Just thought it 
4069
4070was a good idea. :)
407109/01/2016, 09:50 - A Sami: Are you talking nationally or just South 
4072
4073Thames, Kitty?
407409/01/2016, 09:51 - K Mohan: Sorry I didn't mean the at trust level. I 
4075
4076meant at regional level. I basically want to put mine and Sarah's info 
4077
4078up but it will field a serious of other questions.
407909/01/2016, 09:52 - A Collins: I would do it only with their 
4080
4081permission.
408209/01/2016, 09:52 - A Collins: Also amjad, you're quite right. I don't 
4083
4084know where that has come from. They seem to think 7-7 Sunday is plain 
4085
4086time too? :s
408709/01/2016, 09:52 - K Mohan: Happy not to but in a day or so people 
4088
4089will start asking on that group what is going on at their trust (or at 
4090
4091least we want them to as if not they are disengaging).
409209/01/2016, 09:53 - K Mohan: I'm slightly confused as the information 
4093
4094is public. But regardless the info I want to put up is my own. To be 
4095
4096honest, the rest of the country beyond south thames isn't really my 
4097
4098problem.
409909/01/2016, 09:54 - A Sami: You mean your trainees that visit the 
4100
4101facebook forum?
4102
4103If so, in Yorkshire, we created facebook group for each trust and sent 
4104
4105a regional email with facebook links so that people can join in.
4106
4107We have WhatsApp group per trust for 2/3rd of the region
410809/01/2016, 09:55 - A Sami: Join us respective group for their trust*
410909/01/2016, 09:56 - A Collins: Sorry, if it's public already then I 
4110
4111would suggest it is not a bad idea at all
411209/01/2016, 09:57 - K Mohan: Ok. Let me start again.
4113
4114'morning everyone.
4115
4116Just to let you know that I'm going to put some info about who to 
4117
4118contact in south thames for regional info for IA on Tuesday on Facebook 
4119
4120and Twitter. Just wary it may cause a tidal wave of enquirer not 
4121
4122related to south thames on the FB forum and Twitter.
4123
4124Apologies in advance. :)
412509/01/2016, 09:57 - K Mohan: Let me know if this is a bad idea.
412609/01/2016, 09:58 - A Sami: Lol. Mych better and much clearer!
412709/01/2016, 09:58 - C Bell: <Media omitted>
412809/01/2016, 09:58 - K Mohan: I think it's a good thing for people to be 
4129
4130asking "what's going on at my trust!" But don't want to cause chaos
413109/01/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: You love chaos
413209/01/2016, 10:00 - K Mohan: Well things are just far too quiet at the 
4133
4134moment. So yeah maybe I do.
413509/01/2016, 10:08 - H Carter: Wasn't the today programme also asking 
4136
4137people whose ops/ appts had been cancelled because of the strike to 
4138
4139contact them?
414009/01/2016, 10:08 - L J Davis: If you need a bit more chaos kitty, just 
4141
4142post on the fbgod... Something inflammatory? Adam can provide some 
4143
4144*excellent* suggestions
414509/01/2016, 10:09 - L J Davis: Yep.
414609/01/2016, 10:11 - L J Davis: Unfortunately I'm at a children's 
4147
4148birthday party so can't phone. Which is just as well, because 'any 
4149
4150answers' makes me shout at the radio...
415109/01/2016, 10:13 - K Mohan: I want people to get off their arses and 
4152
4153not stay at home on tuesday even if they are revising for speciality 
4154
4155training interviews. We have a significant problem with this at the 
4156
4157moment and we really (as a national committee) need to up our game and 
4158
4159get out there over the next three days.
416009/01/2016, 10:13 - L J Davis: Reminds me; does anyone know about "more 
4161
4162or less" (excellent programme on maths & statistics). Did they ever do 
4163
4164anything on weekend mortality? And if not, should we ask them to? 
4165
4166They did a piece on stormtroupers vs real army yesterday....
416709/01/2016, 10:14 - L J Davis: Oh yes kitty. That sounds suitably 
4168
4169inflammatory for fbgod...
417009/01/2016, 10:16 - A Collins: I find that if you post the same 
4171
4172relatively innocent statement a hundred times and sign it off as jdc 
4173
4174exec member someone will pick it up ;) 
4175
4176Perhaps the same approach could be taken with any answers?
417709/01/2016, 10:18 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Good luck with the nursing 
4178
4179bursary protest today for those going. Proud to have been involved in 
4180
4181its organisation frm the very beginning. Best of luck esp to Johann and 
4182
4183Charlie.
418409/01/2016, 10:18 - K Mohan: no, the point isn't to get the papers 
4185
4186involved but our members. i'm genuinely trying to find ways of reaching 
4187
4188our "unreachable membership" bearing in mind amjad's idea of email 
4189
4190lists won;'t be ready for tuesday.
419109/01/2016, 10:19 - K Mohan: I'm sad you won't be there, Yannis. We'll 
4192
4193wave the banner extra hard for you.
419409/01/2016, 10:19 - A Collier Yep More or Less have covered the weekend 
4195
4196mortality issue. I'll try to dig out a link. I think I tweeted it a 
4197
4198while ago.
419909/01/2016, 10:21 - A Collier http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05w8dnj
420009/01/2016, 11:03 - J Malawana: Kit anyone's details published on the 
4201
4202fb forum as a coordinator will be fair game. Ie harassed by the sun and 
4203
4204the mail.
420509/01/2016, 11:04 - J Malawana: I would seriously just circulate to 
4206
4207them first and explicitly say that in case they object.
420809/01/2016, 11:12 - A Borbora: Just use generic RJDC addresses surely 
4209
4210then the RJDC can put in touch with hospital reps etc??
421109/01/2016, 11:16 - K Mohan: The point was to use the generic addresses 
4212
4213but honestly I see your point. I'll discuss with the other NRJDC chairs 
4214
4215later but for now I've put up mine and Sarah's generic email address.
421609/01/2016, 11:21 - J Malawana: Perfect. Generic is fine. Nothing that 
4217
4218can be used to target anyone that isn't already a target unless they 
4219
4220are really happy to be and understand the implications. Not the stuff 
4221
4222now. The stuff in a few weeks and months should this go south.
422309/01/2016, 11:21 - J Malawana: Kitty it's st Thomas' right?
422409/01/2016, 11:30 - A Borbora: Sorry kitty I misunderstood- I thought 
4225
4226there was a proposal to use hospital reps email addresses etc. 
4227
4228Amjad - didn't you collect a list of RJDC chair email addresses? Use 
4229
4230that and avoid duplication of effort?
423109/01/2016, 11:39 - K Mohan: It's on the one profession microsite. I 
4232
4233just wanted to publicise that list.
423409/01/2016, 11:39 - K Mohan: Yes STH. I'm on my way I think Jeeves is 
4235
4236there as I've had missed calls. Sarah on way too. Tom is ill
423709/01/2016, 11:50 - A Borbora: https://m.bma.org.uk/working-for-
4238
4239change/junior-and-consultant-contract/regional-coordinators
424009/01/2016, 11:51 - K Mohan: Yes that was what I was asking to 
4241
4242tweet/put in FB this morning.
424309/01/2016, 12:26 - B Roberts: I knew Collier would be all over the 
4244
4245More or Less thing!
424609/01/2016, 12:27 - A Collier :-) Doctor and Radio 4 aficionado Andrew 
4247
4248Collier
424909/01/2016, 12:28 - B Roberts: Word of Mouth was the other one I 
4250
4251couldn't remember! Love it.
425209/01/2016, 12:41 - L Boyle: Heidi Alexander put in another shift for 
4253
4254us on Any Questions on R4 last night, audience lapped it up
425509/01/2016, 12:54 - J Malawana: She was very good
425609/01/2016, 13:03 - B Roberts: I was out so I'll catch up with it now. 
4257
4258She's been ace for us and gave JH a hard time the other day, hero!
425909/01/2016, 13:16 - L Boyle: She has!
426009/01/2016, 13:21 - L J Davis: I know this is random... But do we need 
4261
4262to advise ppl who are already sharing info on strike stuff? Like on 
4263
4264jdocs.co.uk ?
426509/01/2016, 13:22 - L J Davis: It's basically a directory for any 
4266
4267journalist who wants to contact a junior...
426809/01/2016, 13:22 - L J Davis: I'm not sure how aware of the 
4269
4270implications of this these individuals may be?
427109/01/2016, 13:24 - L J Davis: Should we at least offer advice on 
4272
4273tightening up fb profiles?
427409/01/2016, 13:24 - A Collins: Part of our social media guidance should 
4275
4276perhaps be: consider when positing that any personal information may be 
4277
4278used to contact you by the press or other interested parties, 
4279
4280particularly when discussing a sensitive or controversial issue "?
428109/01/2016, 13:25 - A Collins: Yes
428209/01/2016, 13:26 - L J Davis: Doing it now...
428309/01/2016, 13:26 - A Collins: I find the "view as"  feature very 
4284
4285useful, to check what random can see on my fb, are you familiar with?
428609/01/2016, 13:38 - L J Davis: Post it on the fbgod as a comment ??
428709/01/2016, 13:50 - A Collins: Oh is that where you've put your advice?
428809/01/2016, 14:03 - A Borbora: Just looking at the pictures from the 
4289
4290nurses' demo: fantastic turn out! 
4291We really need more banners! Unison seem to have thousands!!
429209/01/2016, 15:24 - C Castles: Anyone have the date for jd conference?
429309/01/2016, 15:25 - L Boyle: 14th May
429409/01/2016, 15:25 - C Castles: Damnit, Collins was right
429509/01/2016, 15:25 - C Castles: Thanks Luke
429609/01/2016, 15:25 - L Boyle: I'm actually just about to have a chat 
4297
4298with Andrew Dearden to get more coin!
429909/01/2016, 15:26 - L Boyle: We'll be kicking off the 
4300
4301advert/registration just before the JMF & giving it a plug there. Not 
4302
4303that it'll be required
430409/01/2016, 15:27 - C Castles: We're just booking hotels
430509/01/2016, 15:27 - L Boyle: You mean Collins is looking for the 
4306
4307biggest, most lavish suite he can find in the Pullman?
430809/01/2016, 15:27 - L Boyle: ??
430909/01/2016, 15:28 - C Castles: No doubt
431009/01/2016, 15:28 - L Boyle: I thought the Pullman had lost your 
4311
4312business Conan? Loved your FB rant at them
431309/01/2016, 15:28 - C Castles: Yeah, I've taken the huff with them
431409/01/2016, 15:29 - A Collins: Top tekkers. And where? BMA house?
431509/01/2016, 15:29 - L Boyle: I'll not inform Exec before the CAC ;)
431609/01/2016, 15:30 - J Malawana: Kitty has a fucking intern and a credit 
4317
4318card.
431909/01/2016, 15:30 - J Malawana: I mean wtf?!
432009/01/2016, 15:31 - C Castles: I'm tempted to book a pile of bma rate 
4321
4322rooms, show them how much business they are losing, then just cancel 
4323
4324the rooms afterwards.
432509/01/2016, 15:31 - A Collins: I shall be experimenting with the 
4326
4327doubletree next weekend and basing on that
432809/01/2016, 15:31 - L Boyle: Lol.
432909/01/2016, 15:32 - C Castles: Adam and I have an apartment
433009/01/2016, 15:43 - B Roberts: What happened with the Pullman, Conan? 
4331
4332Is it as bad as my single bed "issue"?
433309/01/2016, 15:44 - C Castles: I lost my silver status since I didn't 
4334
4335stay there for ages, then they didn't match me to my hilton gold 
4336
4337status, saying they didn't match exec club status. So I pointed out 
4338
4339that I knew someone who they did match
434009/01/2016, 15:45 - B Roberts: I see. I think the BMA website has the 
4341
4342conference date as 21st May - is the 14th the right date for definite?
434309/01/2016, 15:46 - C Castles: I had 21st, but didn't know where I got 
4344
4345it from
434609/01/2016, 15:46 - B Roberts: I imagine the chair of conference would 
4347
4348know...!
434909/01/2016, 15:46 - C Castles: Unless this is some plan to cut costs
435009/01/2016, 15:46 - B Roberts: I've already booked hotels for the 
4351
435221st...
435309/01/2016, 15:47 - C Castles: Give half the people the wrong date
435409/01/2016, 15:47 - C Castles: I was about to book mine for 21st
435509/01/2016, 15:47 - L Boyle: I originally had 21st actually but the 
4356
4357places we've booked are for 14th. There was a mistake w that advert as 
4358
435921st was provisional date from last year
436009/01/2016, 15:47 - D Tooth: I've got it as 21 too
436109/01/2016, 15:47 - L Boyle: I'll get comms to amend the calendar
436209/01/2016, 15:47 - D Tooth: Oh dear!!
436309/01/2016, 15:47 - L Boyle: It's not a big deal to move a night at a 
4364
4365hotel is it
436609/01/2016, 15:48 - C Castles: Depends on which rate you book. The 
4367
4368hilton sale ones are non refundable
436909/01/2016, 15:49 - L Boyle: The 14th is the date so I'll email the 
4370
4371listserver on Mon to confirm that so the local networks can be informed 
4372
4373ahead of the registration email which will go out in under 2 weeks
437409/01/2016, 15:50 - L Boyle: We pushed back the advert by one month 
4375
4376this year because a) uncertainly re IA and b) the turnout dropped off 
4377
4378dramatically last year - it's felt that advertising slightly later will 
4379
4380help with that, according to Conf Unit. I don't think it'll matter 
4381
4382either way
438309/01/2016, 15:53 - B Roberts: Can't immediately find the date but I'm 
4384
4385pretty sure I found the 21st on the website before booking hotel. I'll 
4386
4387rebook now... Thanks, chair of conference!
438809/01/2016, 15:54 - L Boyle: :)
438909/01/2016, 15:54 - L Boyle: They maybe took it down once CAC settled 
4390
4391on a date
439209/01/2016, 15:55 - L Boyle: The 21st was decided upon provisionally 
4393
4394for the 2016 Conf at the time of 2015 one
439509/01/2016, 15:56 - C Castles: Oh yeah, I remember last year being 
4396
4397massively oversubscribed, then a lot of empty chairs on the day
439809/01/2016, 15:57 - C Castles: A refundable charge for the chair, that 
4399
4400you get refunded once you sit on your seat?
440109/01/2016, 16:00 - B Roberts: That sounds fair enough to me. RCGP run 
4402
4403a lot of free local courses that way - chequers payable to a charity to 
4404
4405register your place, cheque goes to charity if you don't turn up. I 
4406
4407approve massively.
440809/01/2016, 16:04 - D Rouse: Kitty has an intern
440909/01/2016, 16:04 - D Rouse: Isn't that Andrew :-p
441009/01/2016, 16:18 - A Collier Aren't you LJD's intern David?
441109/01/2016, 16:19 - B Roberts: Ouch!
441209/01/2016, 16:20 - C Castles: Haha
441309/01/2016, 16:20 - A Collier I meant it as a compliment! :-)
441409/01/2016, 16:21 - L Boyle: Yeah well we might have to do that & I'll 
4415
4416tell you why this week sometime
441709/01/2016, 16:21 - L Boyle: I don't want to disrespect the CAC members 
4418
4419by having that discussion on here if that's ok
442009/01/2016, 16:21 - L Boyle: Not being coy for badness.
442109/01/2016, 16:22 - L Boyle: By all means discuss but I can't tell exec 
4422
4423first what we're doing, that's what I mean
442409/01/2016, 16:22 - C Castles: I'm sure we all understand Luke, dont 
4425
4426worry
442709/01/2016, 16:27 - B Roberts: Of course, Luke, and clearly it's an 
4428
4429issue that warrants the discussion. Keep us posted!
443009/01/2016, 16:30 - L Boyle: Thanks :)
443109/01/2016, 16:37 - L J Davis: <Media omitted>
443209/01/2016, 16:40 - L J Davis: I'm not sure david is listening, 
4433
4434Andrew...
443509/01/2016, 16:43 - Z Greaves: Tho may make life a little tricky - 
4436
4437fiancé has 30th birthday :/
443809/01/2016, 16:48 - H Carter: Random question, are we having a JDC exec 
4439
4440dinner this January like last year? I doubt it but just wondering.
444109/01/2016, 16:50 - C Castles: As far as I know it's not happening in 
4442
4443Jan, but will happen after a meeting later in the year
444409/01/2016, 17:02 - L Boyle: Just got off the phone with Andrew Dearden 
4445
4446- very excited about what we can now do potentially...will fill exec in 
4447
4448by this time next week once all approved. Fingers crossed!
444909/01/2016, 17:06 - K Mohan: Sadly I have to be in Lithuania on the 
4450
445114th may. Gutted it's not 21st.
445209/01/2016, 17:11 - D Rouse: I thought that was meant to be me there 
4453
4454LJD
445509/01/2016, 17:28 - A Borbora: Some of us are platinum members at the 
4456
4457Pullman. After once checking out in the morning only to  have to boom 
4458
4459back in the same evening you get looked after!
446009/01/2016, 17:29 - A Borbora: The dinner will be later in the year, 
4461
4462once the contracts/IA has died down.
446309/01/2016, 17:34 - C Castles: I was trying to get matched to platinum 
4464
4465:-)
446609/01/2016, 17:39 - A Borbora: Much better quality of comp drinks then 
4467
4468for you silver "status" plebs
446909/01/2016, 17:39 - A Borbora: *than
447009/01/2016, 17:40 - C Castles: Show off
447109/01/2016, 17:40 - C Castles: Hilton doesnt give a comp drink
447209/01/2016, 17:41 - A Borbora: They gave me a welcome giftset as well
447309/01/2016, 17:46 - C Castles: I never got a welcome giftset
447409/01/2016, 17:51 - A Borbora: I get the feeling they didn't like you 
4475
4476??
447709/01/2016, 17:52 - C Castles: Its starting to look that way
447809/01/2016, 17:52 - A Borbora: Some off their staff training isn't the 
4479
4480best. Or it's just you.
448109/01/2016, 17:53 - C Castles: I'm not sure they like Adam either
448209/01/2016, 17:54 - A Borbora: Amjad is always happy there 
4483Maybe they dont like celts
448409/01/2016, 17:54 - C Castles: He had to queue for over 20 mins one 
4485
4486evening to check in
448709/01/2016, 17:55 - A Borbora: Online check in is the way to go.
448809/01/2016, 17:56 - B Roberts: They're fine with me but they did 
4489
4490preferentially check in Mark Porter even though I got there before him. 
4491
4492He must be platinum, too. I am merely a silver pleb.
449309/01/2016, 17:59 - A Borbora: He may not be. I had breakfast with him 
4494
4495there just before Christmas. He says he only stays a few times a year 
4496
4497as the last train to Coventry is late he usually just goes home. Plus 
4498
4499he said he often changes hotel depending on where has been most 
4500
4501recently refurbished.
450209/01/2016, 18:00 - C Castles: Its just the celts then bethan
450309/01/2016, 18:01 - B Roberts: Must be. Bunch of racists.
450409/01/2016, 18:02 - A Borbora: I prefer to call them "elitists"
450509/01/2016, 18:17 - B Roberts: Don't tell Yannis...
450609/01/2016, 18:19 - A Collins: My problem was I booked through fecking 
4507
4508gray Dawes. Never again.
450909/01/2016, 18:19 - C Castles: Ah, I understand. Its all part of the 
4510
4511England-centric approach. The bma have paid pullman to do this
451209/01/2016, 18:48 - A Sami: Good morning everyone
4513
4514Aaron and Kitty are right. I had the list of emails of chairs and 
4515
4516passed it on to comms to be published on the IA website. (Sorry, Kitty, 
4517
4518J am mentally challenged most of the time, let a lone after a night 
4519
4520shift!)
4521
4522Luke, It is a shame that the date for the conference that has been 
4523
4524brought earlier. I got rota coordinator to put me in a slot to match 
4525
4526the date adevrtised!
4527
4528Could a provisional date for the year after not get advertised till it 
4529
4530is confirmed for 2017? I am sure you will consider this, and it makes 
4531
4532it easier for acute specialities to arrange time off monthes in 
4533
4534advance.
4535
4536Pullman? I am so happy with them that I am not bothered with status. I 
4537
4538think I am a "classic" on the ladder! Hilton is a joke
453909/01/2016, 18:49 - K Mohan: i love that amjad summarised a days worth 
4540
4541of messages in one single message. :)
454209/01/2016, 18:50 - A Sami: Thank you, Kitty. A total of 146 messages!
454309/01/2016, 18:51 - A Borbora: Lol
4544Amjad can summarise a complex medical problem that involves hundreds of 
4545
4546investigations and multiple specialists into the wonderful a&e phrase 
4547
4548"refer to medics"
454909/01/2016, 18:53 - A Sami: Absolutely!??
455009/01/2016, 19:01 - B Roberts: "Refer to medics" - an impression and 
4551
4552plan rolled into one!
455309/01/2016, 19:01 - L Boyle: Amjad if it's any consolation it wasn't me 
4554
4555who changed it - I was informed by secretariat that they shifted it 
4556
4557before this session began. Not I deal
455809/01/2016, 19:01 - L Boyle: Ideal*
455909/01/2016, 19:01 - L Boyle: I apologise.
456009/01/2016, 19:03 - A Sami: No worries, Luke. We are still friends ?? I 
4561
4562will see what I can do
456309/01/2016, 19:04 - K Mohan: aw. they're still friends. phew.
456409/01/2016, 19:05 - A Sami: And I will buy the coffee next time ??
456509/01/2016, 19:09 - A Sami: Opinion needed
4566
4567I have a grass root in Yorkshire who has made a videon about the NHS 
4568
4569and focuses on the junior doctors.
4570https://vimeo.com/149797992?outro=1
4571
4572He is happy for this to be used by the BMA, or BMA reps.
4573
4574What do you think of it?
457509/01/2016, 19:29 - K Mohan: i have to admit I just watched the first 
4576
45772min 46 seconds of it and I don't think I'm cool enough to really 
4578
4579appreciate it.
458009/01/2016, 19:36 - A Collier Is it rap or performance poetry?
458109/01/2016, 19:36 - K Mohan: whatever it is, it's erm an acquired taste 
4582
4583i think
458409/01/2016, 19:36 - A Collier As a radio 4 listener I'm not really 
4585
4586qualified to judge. I do however like the font at the start!
458709/01/2016, 19:37 - K Mohan: i wondered if it could be the b side of 
4588
4589the nhs singers new album...
459009/01/2016, 19:40 - C Castles: Its that not standard radio 4 material?
459109/01/2016, 19:42 - C Castles: Careful or mark Porter and Ian Wilson 
4592
4593will rip it off with their own version
459409/01/2016, 19:44 - A Sami: Thank you for the feedback so far
459509/01/2016, 19:45 - C Castles: I'm not sure much of that was helpful 
4596
4597Amjad :-)
459809/01/2016, 19:58 - A Borbora: The negs team tried watching it. We 
4599
4600failed to  understand it
460109/01/2016, 19:59 - E McCourt: I quite liked it...
460209/01/2016, 19:59 - A Collins: Nah not refer... "admit"... Decision 
4603
4604made. :p
460509/01/2016, 20:04 - A Collins: I'm so excited to watch this. 
4606
4607If Andrew liked it that much it must be excellent.
460809/01/2016, 20:05 - A Collier The font is indeed lovely
460909/01/2016, 20:05 - A Collier I believe I use the same on the cover of 
4610
4611my reports
461209/01/2016, 20:10 - Z Greaves: Took me about half a minute to work out 
4613
4614it was poetic/rap lol ... also was it partially filmed in fountains 
4615
4616abbey?
461709/01/2016, 20:11 - A Borbora: "Failed junior doctor contract 
4618
4619negotiations"
4620Give us a chance! Even ACAS said we were having productive talks!
462109/01/2016, 20:11 - K Mohan: I actually thought Zoe wrote  "poetic 
4622
4623crap". Lol.
462409/01/2016, 20:15 - A Borbora: Am I the only one who finds doctors/ BMA 
4625
4626being nye Bevan fanboys ironic? Given what he said about us at the 
4627
4628time? 
4629Or maybe I'm too much of a history geek? 
4630#istandwithsoloman
463109/01/2016, 20:16 - K Mohan: Presume you guys have seen the JDC 
4632
4633listserver...
463409/01/2016, 20:16 - C Castles: But was "us" not a bunch of 
4635
4636conservatives at the time?
463709/01/2016, 20:17 - C Castles: What a douchebag
463809/01/2016, 20:17 - C Castles: Do we have the letter?
463909/01/2016, 20:20 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
464009/01/2016, 20:20 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
464109/01/2016, 20:20 - A Borbora: Seen it via disputes
464209/01/2016, 20:22 - C Castles: Its not that surprising is it?
464309/01/2016, 20:22 - C Castles: And if we have consultant and SASC input 
4644
4645hopefully it won't happen at all
464609/01/2016, 20:30 - A Borbora: It's seeking local agreements rather 
4647
4648than national as had been agreed. 
4649It's leaving local reps in a very difficult position - they don't have 
4650
4651the experience for this and the variations caused would be worse for 
4652
4653the Bma. Central decision making ensures consistency.
465409/01/2016, 20:32 - ?L Elliott: This is terrible news. Reps will be in 
4655
4656a very bad position and the less experienced ones will no doubt cave 
4657
4658into whatever the management feel. The thing is - 4 hour waits, ambo 
4659
4660hand over times...these things are happening everyday so how does one 
4661
4662say it's directly related to the strike?
466309/01/2016, 20:32 - K Mohan: It's all over Twitter
466409/01/2016, 20:33 - A Collins: Do we have the latter sent to cons?
466509/01/2016, 20:34 - ?L Elliott: My medical director actually said in 
4666
4667our first meeting about if there were 9 ambos outside a&e then it would 
4668
4669have to be considered to call people in. It makes me really angry- I've 
4670
4671just done a week of nights where there were 9 ambos outside and always 
4672
4673with 15 waiting and no incident was declared!
467409/01/2016, 20:34 - ?L Elliott: However, must remember that it costs 
4675
4676the hospital money to declare major incidents and it has to be agreed 
4677
4678with consultants (who support us)
467909/01/2016, 20:36 - K Mohan: We need to be sure that locally 
4680
4681consultants know what to say/do. Medical directors are asking to speak 
4682
4683to consultant reps about this letter.
468409/01/2016, 20:38 - C Castles: Can we not issue central guidance 
4685
4686anyway?
468709/01/2016, 20:38 - A Borbora: Johann has put the letter on listerver
468809/01/2016, 20:38 - C Castles: And advise people to make a note on 
4689
4690Monday of ambulance waits and Ed waits so they can't pretend tue is 
4691
4692excessively busier
469309/01/2016, 20:39 - Z Greaves: That's what they want - they want us to 
4694
4695issue guidance that says when a&e is flooded juniors shouldn't come in 
4696
4697and then they can say that Bma has advised juniors not to respond to 
4698
4699major incidents
470009/01/2016, 20:40 - D Rouse: A&e should be no more busy than normal
470109/01/2016, 20:40 - D Rouse: And only a&e juniors should be required
470209/01/2016, 20:40 - D Rouse: Will be no different to any other day 
4703
4704patient wise
470509/01/2016, 20:40 - A Borbora: Using the agreed escalation avoids the 
4706
4707problems Zoe describes
470809/01/2016, 20:40 - D Rouse: We should not be expecting non a&e juniors 
4709
4710to work in a&we
471109/01/2016, 20:40 - A Sami: Exactly, David!
471209/01/2016, 20:40 - ?L Elliott: A&e will be backlogged as the patients 
4713
4714on the wards aren't moving out.
471509/01/2016, 20:41 - A Sami: And thank you guys for the video feedback. 
4716
4717I, like, Ellen, liked it!
471809/01/2016, 20:41 - ?L Elliott: Making it a nightmare to see patients 
4719
4720anywhere.
472109/01/2016, 20:41 - D Rouse: It is insulting to assert that non a&e 
4722
4723specialists can run a&e
472409/01/2016, 20:41 - D Rouse: I am not a surgeon
472509/01/2016, 20:41 - D Rouse: I wouldn't go to theatre
472609/01/2016, 20:41 - D Rouse: I don't think surgeons or other can run 
4727
4728a&e
472909/01/2016, 20:41 - ?L Elliott: The consultants from AMU and medicine 
4730
4731are willing to put a shift in a&e which helps tremendously
473209/01/2016, 20:42 - D Rouse: No
473309/01/2016, 20:42 - ?L Elliott: No ones saying about running a&e
473409/01/2016, 20:42 - D Rouse: They are not a&e specialists
473509/01/2016, 20:42 - D Rouse: They should be given medical patients
473609/01/2016, 20:42 - ?L Elliott: They can see patients though
473709/01/2016, 20:42 - ?L Elliott: Yes exactly
473809/01/2016, 20:42 - D Rouse: As selected by an ed physician
473909/01/2016, 20:42 - D Rouse: Nothing else
474009/01/2016, 20:42 - D Rouse: They are not EM specialists
474109/01/2016, 20:43 - ?L Elliott: Why selected? That's a bit much. We 
4742
4743have consultants from Amu working quite a lot in ED. I think as 
4744
4745consultants they are sensible enough to deal with the patients
474609/01/2016, 20:43 - D Rouse: Nope
474709/01/2016, 20:43 - ?L Elliott: But obvs wouldn't be expected to run 
4748
4749traumas etc
475009/01/2016, 20:43 - D Rouse: Nope
475109/01/2016, 20:43 - D Rouse: Nope
475209/01/2016, 20:44 - D Rouse: They are not EM specialists I assume you 
4753
4754would agree EM doctors would be suitable to manage patients in AMU then
475509/01/2016, 20:45 - ?L Elliott: Well it's clearly different at my 
4756
4757hospital then! You're essentially saying a consultant in AMU or surgery 
4758
4759cannot see patients but an f2 can?! Anyway this is a silly argument - 
4760
4761what I am saying is that I for one am very grateful that consultants 
4762
4763are willing to help us
476409/01/2016, 20:45 - D Rouse: I am saying that they are not specialists 
4765
4766in resuscitation and emergency medicine and should not be working in 
4767
4768the ED.
476909/01/2016, 20:46 - ?L Elliott: What about GPs then who do sessions?
477009/01/2016, 20:47 - ?L Elliott: I think it's a great thing that other 
4771
4772specialities can help out where it's needed
477309/01/2016, 20:47 - D Rouse: GP sees them under the supervision of the 
4774
4775named a&be physician
477609/01/2016, 20:47 - ?L Elliott: Then the consultant can go ask as well. 
4777
4778Sorry David I really don't see why this is a big issue. People are 
4779
4780helping the juniors. This is a good thing
478109/01/2016, 20:48 - D Tooth: Are we talking go trainee or qualified GP? 
4782
4783And where would sit Bruce have me go on Tuesday in this instance? Back 
4784
4785to my GP surgery or a and e?
478609/01/2016, 20:48 - D Rouse: It drives me mad that it is assumed that 
4787
4788non EM physicians are suitable to just walk into the ED and are EMA 
4789
4790doctors
479109/01/2016, 20:49 - D Rouse: it undermines the speciality
479209/01/2016, 20:49 - ?L Elliott: No one is suggesting they are running 
4793
4794the show! If it is very busy speciality doctors are already asked to go 
4795
4796see appropriate patients - happens at a lot of hospitals
479709/01/2016, 20:50 - D Rouse: Appropriate as selected by the EM 
4798
4799physician in charge
480009/01/2016, 20:51 - D Tooth: Or a GP sending a referral direct from GP 
4801
4802practice
480309/01/2016, 20:51 - ?L Elliott: I guess if they aren't busy in resus 
4804
4805and can stand by the box to file through who is appropriate. My point 
4806
4807is that consultants are helping us and this is excellent news.
480809/01/2016, 20:51 - D Tooth: Agree
480909/01/2016, 20:51 - L J Davis: I think in some units they  are lucky to 
4810
4811have an EM consultant; let alone see them. I've been to several which 
4812
4813are basically manned by f2/gpvts guys...
481409/01/2016, 20:52 - L J Davis: That really undermines the specialty!
481509/01/2016, 20:52 - D Rouse: I think it is just a bit of an insult to 
4816
4817the EM physicians just my opinion
481809/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: I don't foresee it being busier than any 
4819
4820other day except for throughput being an issue
482109/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: So get the anaesthesia doctors
482209/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: Into the medical wards
482309/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: And ask them to start discharging medical 
4824
4825patients
482609/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: Who are suitable
482709/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: Sure they can tell which ones are ready to 
4828
4829go
483009/01/2016, 20:54 - D Rouse: Same concept right?
483109/01/2016, 20:56 - ?L Elliott: Absolutely is not. BUT in this 
4832
4833exceptional case of us being on strike if a department is struggling 
4834
4835then the LNCs feel it reasonable to distribute doctors to other 
4836
4837departments so long as it's within their competencies
483809/01/2016, 20:56 - D Rouse: Hahaha why not
483909/01/2016, 20:56 - D Rouse: Sorry
484009/01/2016, 20:56 - D Rouse: I fail to see how you assume any 
4841
4842consultant is able to be an emergency physician but it doesn't work for 
4843
4844general and acute medicine
484509/01/2016, 20:57 - D Rouse: Tell you what get the EM consultants 
4846
4847discharging on the medical wards
484809/01/2016, 20:57 - D Rouse: It's the same think you'd find it 
4849
4850insulting to the speciality and so do I
485109/01/2016, 20:57 - ?L Elliott: Not every patient in a&e is seen by a 
4852
4853consultant.
485409/01/2016, 20:57 - ?L Elliott: Not even their admission card
485509/01/2016, 20:57 - L J Davis: I suspect that EM has been Cinderella 
4856
4857for a long time; and this is not the point where we want to exacerbate 
4858
4859that... But we need to have a plan which can support the front door of 
4860
4861the hospital
486209/01/2016, 20:58 - L J Davis: (& I expect these issues are different 
4863
4864in different hospitals)
486509/01/2016, 20:58 - D Rouse: Thought there wasn't much difference 
4866
4867between acute medicine and EM from what is being said
486809/01/2016, 20:59 - ?L Elliott: Exactly. If the patient would be seen 
4869
4870by an f2 and then referred to the medical team where they are seen by 
4871
4872the reg - in a time where time is an issue and patient volume is huge 
4873
4874then why isnt it better to stop the patient being seen twice and get 
4875
4876them seem straight off by the reg
487709/01/2016, 20:59 - ?L Elliott: I'm not suggesting that david
487809/01/2016, 20:59 - ?L Elliott: You're not getting what I am saying!
487909/01/2016, 21:00 - ?L Elliott: But then hey who cares. At least my 
4880
4881hospital is trying and I am grateful for other consultants and 
4882
4883colleagues support there
488409/01/2016, 21:01 - K Mohan: Not meaning to be rude but surely this is 
4885
4886a theoretical discussion. It really doesn't matter what David thinks 
4887
4888about what may happen at Lottie's hospital.
488909/01/2016, 21:01 - A Borbora: When I was doing surgery we'd often go 
4890
4891down to a&e to help out when they were rammed. Eg I had done t/o and 
4892
4893plastics so they'd ask me to see wounds, hand injuries &etc in minors 
4894
4895and #nof in majors. 
4896
4897Nobody is suggesting they are seeing patients without ED input but if a 
4898
4899radiology or histopath reg can locum in ED or we have F2s working there 
4900
4901I don't see why other doctors including consultants can't help out 
4902
4903within their competence. 
4904
4905Anyway.
490609/01/2016, 21:02 - D Rouse: Sorry we are specialists and i think you 
4907
4908would be better placed distributing doctors to the wards to provide 
4909
4910flow
491109/01/2016, 21:03 - D Rouse: Not in the ED which will be no busier than 
4912
4913normal
491409/01/2016, 21:05 - D Rouse: It's the usual mantra of  anyone can do EM
491509/01/2016, 21:05 - D Rouse: It's utter rubbish
491609/01/2016, 21:07 - L J Davis: David, in smaller & rural hospitals, 
4917
4918what % actually have a dedicated EM trainee team? Who are resident all 
4919
4920the time? Because unless it's recently changed, I know of at least 
4921
4922three hospitals regionally who have no EM Drs in A&E overnight.
4923
4924I'm genuinely asking, because the requirements for a consultant on site 
4925
4926for o&g have changed...
492709/01/2016, 21:08 - ?L Elliott: Ha. Not everyone can be a EM consultant 
4928
4929- running the department, who can step down from resus, how to manage 
4930
4931the queue in the corridor...but people can help there and so patients 
4932
4933are seen by competent doctors who are working within their competencies 
4934
4935(eg an ortho reg locums at my hospital and only sees minors patients).
493609/01/2016, 21:10 - D Rouse: And having the appropriate medical 
4937
4938knowledge to manage emergencies from specialities as diverse as paeds 
4939
4940to o&g to neurological to airway etc
494109/01/2016, 21:10 - D Rouse: You forget about the massive amount of 
4942
4943actual medical knowledge
494409/01/2016, 21:10 - D Rouse: Funny how that's always overlooked
494509/01/2016, 21:11 - ?L Elliott: That's not what I am saying at all. I'm 
4946
4947saying a doctor would only see someone who are we competent to see
494809/01/2016, 21:11 - ?L Elliott: Who they are competent to see (it's 
4949
4950difficult to type when half your screen doesn't work...)
495109/01/2016, 21:12 - L J Davis: Hang on a mo, david, I don't think 
4952
4953anyone is questioning the importance/ability of EM. It's just a 
4954
4955question of what we do on Tuesday... Which is not a normal day!
495609/01/2016, 21:15 - C Castles: Fucking hell, I put one of the boys to 
4957
4958bed and come back to this. Settle down
495909/01/2016, 21:16 - K Mohan: #istandwithconan
496009/01/2016, 21:16 - C Castles: :-)
496109/01/2016, 21:17 - D Rouse: I'm just saying it amazing how a&e is the 
4962
4963one who anyone can do but having anaesthesia on the surgical wards to 
4964
4965improve flow is seen as a No
496609/01/2016, 21:17 - D Rouse: Anyway.
496709/01/2016, 21:17 - K Mohan: Please don't start again.
496809/01/2016, 21:18 - D Rouse: I'm not I've stopped
496909/01/2016, 21:18 - D Rouse: Obviously I am not agreed with
497009/01/2016, 21:18 - A Yassaee: So what's the strategy following the 
4971
4972letter?
497309/01/2016, 21:19 - K Mohan: I think we need to question NHSEs 
4974
4975independence generally..
497609/01/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: It just adds to it.
497709/01/2016, 21:20 - K Mohan: (The letter I mean).
497809/01/2016, 21:26 - A Borbora: This is my reply to disputes Committee: 
4979
4980 Dear All,
4981
4982I am disappointed that yet again they are trying such tricks on us. The 
4983
4984"other side" understand we have to take action and from a negotiating 
4985
4986stand point it is not, yet, a barrier.
4987
4988I am very uneasy with local BMA representatives being asked to have 
4989
4990such a decisive role in calling off IA by junior doctors.
4991
4992
4993In my view this leaves them vulnerable personally and professionally 
4994
4995and presents a high reputational risk to the BMA. These risks are 
4996
4997mitigated by the agreed system of escalation via NHS England to the BMA 
4998
4999centrally.
5000
5001Many LNCs are not yet effective and certainly most junior doctor reps 
5002
5003on them are very inexperienced. They will placed under extreme duress 
5004
5005from Trust management to agree to a return to work.  This is likely to 
5006
5007result in a collapse of the IA, which many juniors will blame on the 
5008
5009BMA for "caving" to Keogh.
5010
5011
5012On the other hand if the local team is very "militant" they might 
5013
5014decline a fairly reasonable request – playing right into the media's 
5015
5016hands.
5017
5018
5019Central escalation avoids this and ensures consistency. 
5020
5021We have never ruled out "authorizing" a request for return to work in 
5022
5023local circumstances, whether that is a bad accident, a catastrophic 
5024
5025hospital infrastructure failure or indeed anything else.
5026
5027
5028Perhaps we could respond saying we would consider calling off in 
5029
5030extreme circumstances, however arising, but that escalation needs to 
5031
5032follow the agreed protocols via NHS England.
503309/01/2016, 21:26 - K Mohan: I'm concerned that LNC chairs may need 
5034
5035some advice in light of this. It's been suggested on the cc listserver.
503609/01/2016, 21:27 - A Borbora: Disputes are aware and working on a 
5037
5038reply and anything else needed in light of this unhelpful development
503909/01/2016, 21:40 - M Redman: My responses:
5040- glad you guys made such a great job of #Bursaryorbust
5041- My news feed is essentially just kitty ( I must have liked too many 
5042
5043of her posts lately)
5044- I'm not even bronze
5045- terrified at the idea of our reps being put in awful situation here - 
5046
5047advice would be necessary
504809/01/2016, 21:42 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Good stuff aaron. Ur disputes 
5049
5050letter sums everything up
505109/01/2016, 21:47 - A Collins: Agree with Aaron. Just need to get that 
5052
5053message out.
505409/01/2016, 21:49 - K Mohan: thanks melo. there were only 5 of us from 
5055
5056jdc: me, johann, jeeves, sarah h and shruti and tom rock from msc was 
5057
5058with us. but we made our presence known i think. (there were a few 
5059
5060other juniors there - a four or five south thames psych trainees were 
5061
5062there too.
506309/01/2016, 21:50 - K Mohan: you can never have too many of my posts on 
5064
5065your newsfeed. well maybe you can. i'll try to refrain from posting for 
5066
5067a bit. :)
506809/01/2016, 21:51 - M Redman: No Don't... keep posting, your posts are 
5069
5070ace!
507109/01/2016, 21:51 - M Redman: Esp jo-fan posts
507209/01/2016, 21:53 - K Mohan: i got told today that jo-fann has to have 
5073
5074two 'n's. apparently he prefers it that way.
507509/01/2016, 21:54 - A Sami: NHSE utter rubbish 
5076
5077https://twitter.com/bendean1979/status/685895949206589440
507809/01/2016, 21:54 - A Sami: Do we know how accurate is this?
507909/01/2016, 21:55 - K Mohan: i think johann is looking into this. we 
5080
5081heard about this this afternoon whilst at the protest
508209/01/2016, 22:01 - A Borbora: We've heard nothing locally like that
508309/01/2016, 22:41 - J Malawana: So. I was just off doing some 
5084
5085motivatoring. I think the FBGoD is back online in full IA mode. Have to 
5086
5087say, kitty is really rubbish at holding the banner. She kept wanting to 
5088
5089chat to Sarah and so they just started wondering closer together and 
5090
5091off in random directions. Honestly. Simple tasks. These public health 
5092
5093doctors.
509409/01/2016, 22:41 - J Malawana: But.
509509/01/2016, 22:42 - J Malawana: On a positive note. I did manage to 
5096
5097avoid Len McClusky!
509809/01/2016, 22:42 - J Malawana: No way they could have got a pic of me 
5099
5100and my second favourite trade unionist - big Len.
510109/01/2016, 22:43 - J Malawana: I have to say a march just isn't the 
5102
5103same without Yannis there to keep me all on edge.
510409/01/2016, 22:44 - K Mohan: We did all miss Yannis. He would have made 
5105
5106an excellent #jofann.
510709/01/2016, 22:44 - J Malawana: I hate Jeeves.
510809/01/2016, 22:44 - J Malawana: And now you.
510909/01/2016, 22:44 - K Mohan: That's a bit mean.
511009/01/2016, 22:45 - K Mohan: And totally inprovoked.
511109/01/2016, 22:45 - K Mohan: Unprovoked even. Stupid autocorrect
511209/01/2016, 22:46 - M Redman: I love Jeeves. Leave him alone
511309/01/2016, 22:46 - K Mohan: Yeah. Listen to melody.
511409/01/2016, 22:47 - A Borbora: Sad that Yannis missed it given how 
5115
5116involved he's been. Next time!
511709/01/2016, 22:48 - K Mohan: We were going to start a #wheresyannis 
5118
5119hashtag.
512009/01/2016, 22:48 - M Redman: And kitty! 
5121
5122#istandwithjeevesandkitty
5123
5124Why does Johann hate his number one Jo-fann Jeeves?
512509/01/2016, 22:48 - M Redman: I bet he was there really, but in 
5126
5127disguise
512809/01/2016, 22:49 - K Mohan: Jeeves may or may not have coined the 
5129
5130#jofann hashtag.
513109/01/2016, 22:49 - J Malawana: Melody. You are about to go from my 
5132
5133favourite member of exec to in the kitty category.
513409/01/2016, 22:49 - B Roberts: Now I realise what FBGoD is! I thought 
5135
5136everyone meant that Johann was an FB god!
513709/01/2016, 22:49 - J Malawana: Ellen-isn
513809/01/2016, 22:49 - K Mohan: We have a great idea for an upcoming JDC 
5139
5140guys. Will tell you about it one day when Johann has signed out of 
5141
5142Scopia.
514309/01/2016, 22:49 - J Malawana: Ism
514409/01/2016, 22:49 - Z Greaves: I know I was little confused
514509/01/2016, 22:50 - Z Greaves: Sounds good :P
514609/01/2016, 22:50 - A Collins: I thought I was yoyo's favourite member 
5147
5148of exec ??
514909/01/2016, 22:50 - K Mohan: Me too. I thought LJD was referring to a 
5150
5151Facebook god this morning.
515209/01/2016, 22:51 - J Malawana: By the way seriously. Was a massive 
5153
5154deal for Yannis to miss the March. Did it himself voluntarily. Given he 
5155
5156basically helped organise it and the organiser Danielle kept going on 
5157
5158about it I think was awesome. For the greater good.
515909/01/2016, 22:51 - B Roberts: Thanks to Johann for appropriate 
5160
5161capitalisation. Not trying to smarm my way into being face exec 
5162
5163member...
516409/01/2016, 22:51 - Z Greaves: #yoyosjofanns
516509/01/2016, 22:51 - B Roberts: Yann-fans?
516609/01/2016, 22:51 - K Mohan: #istandwithzoe
516709/01/2016, 22:51 - M Redman: Fannis doesn't work as well
516809/01/2016, 22:51 - A Collins: Hmm, today I think #IdMarchForYannis
516909/01/2016, 22:52 - K Mohan: Lol
517009/01/2016, 22:52 - A Collins: Good call mate!
517109/01/2016, 22:52 - J Malawana: Sam asked me about this whatsapp group. 
5172
5173Being a serious group of people with the country currently at its knees 
5174
5175etc.
517609/01/2016, 22:52 - A Collins: I think fannis could take off
517709/01/2016, 22:52 - J Malawana: If only they all knew.
517809/01/2016, 22:52 - J Malawana: I do like #fannis.
517909/01/2016, 22:52 - C Castles: Too close to fannies
518009/01/2016, 22:52 - K Mohan: Yeah agree with Conan
518109/01/2016, 22:53 - J Malawana: No no
518209/01/2016, 22:53 - J Malawana: I see the merit.
518309/01/2016, 22:53 - J Malawana: I am officially a big #fannis.
518409/01/2016, 22:53 - J Malawana: See.  It works.
518509/01/2016, 22:53 - J Malawana: Try it kitty.
518609/01/2016, 22:53 - K Mohan: Why me?!
518709/01/2016, 22:53 - K Mohan: No only you can have fans.
518809/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: We all love Yannis though.
518909/01/2016, 22:54 - A Collins: I think yoyo has probably been too close 
5190
5191to fannies for a while. It's good he's having a year off
519209/01/2016, 22:54 - J Malawana: Adam you are my joint second favourite 
5193
5194member with Yannis. The only two members of exec I have actually so far 
5195
5196had to consult both the legal and press departments about. :-)
519709/01/2016, 22:55 - J Malawana: I am waiting for the rest of them to 
5198
5199all compete in those stakes.
520009/01/2016, 22:55 - M Redman: Okay. Game on.
520109/01/2016, 22:55 - K Mohan: It's ok. You're all the rest of our second 
5202
5203favourite BMA chair.
520409/01/2016, 22:55 - J Malawana: It's when Bethan does something that I 
5205
5206know you guys are corrupting the innocent.
520709/01/2016, 22:55 - J Malawana: Lol
520809/01/2016, 22:55 - M Redman: I WILL WIN YOUR APPROVAL BACK
520909/01/2016, 22:55 - A Collins: Hahaha what did I do that needed legal?
521009/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: Or maybe further down the list.
521109/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: NO MELODY. YOU'RE WITH US NOW.
521209/01/2016, 22:56 - J Malawana: I am sure the press office had to 
5213
5214check. But maybe wrong. Try again and see whether you make the full 
5215
5216sweep :-)
521709/01/2016, 22:56 - A Collins: If you insist :D
521809/01/2016, 22:56 - J Malawana: Lol
521909/01/2016, 22:57 - J Malawana: Anyway. Back to #fannis.
522009/01/2016, 22:57 - K Mohan: Bethan?! Bethan is a terrible influence.
522109/01/2016, 22:57 - K Mohan: I've known her half my life.,
522209/01/2016, 22:57 - J Malawana: Bethan is sweet and innocent.
522309/01/2016, 22:57 - C Castles: Bethan is the worst
522409/01/2016, 22:58 - K Mohan: She is the worst.
522509/01/2016, 22:58 - J Malawana: Harsh.
522609/01/2016, 22:58 - K Mohan: I agree with Conan.
522709/01/2016, 22:58 - J Malawana: Jeez.
522809/01/2016, 22:58 - K Mohan: Again.
522909/01/2016, 22:58 - C Castles: She's a terrible influence
523009/01/2016, 22:58 - J Malawana: What did Bethan do to you two.
523109/01/2016, 22:58 - J Malawana: Talk about reaction.
523209/01/2016, 22:58 - K Mohan: I have 18 years of stories to tell about 
5233
5234Bethan.
523509/01/2016, 22:58 - A Collins: Johann, I think it's time we had a 
5236
5237serious chat. 
5238
5239I need you to promise us all something. 
5240
5241Deeply and sincerely.
5242
5243
5244Please can the last words of your chairship be:
5245"anyway, back to fannies"
524609/01/2016, 22:58 - J Malawana: #fannis.
524709/01/2016, 22:59 - J Malawana: Lol
524809/01/2016, 22:59 - C Castles: Haha
524909/01/2016, 22:59 - K Mohan: Poor Fannis I mean Yannis.
525009/01/2016, 23:00 - K Mohan: Do you mean last words before he is forced 
5251
5252to resign  due to sexual harassment claims??
525309/01/2016, 23:00 - C Castles: I thought it just meant he was going 
5254
5255back to his usual job
525609/01/2016, 23:00 - A Collins: I've told you before Kitty, yoyo is not 
5257
5258giving you come on looks across the table... It's not harassment. M.
525909/01/2016, 23:01 - K Mohan: They used to refer to me as sexual 
5260
5261harassment girl on council.
526209/01/2016, 23:01 - K Mohan: That was weird.
526309/01/2016, 23:01 - C Castles: Bethan made me stay up late one night 
5264
5265drinking Welsh whiskey
526609/01/2016, 23:01 - K Mohan: Yeah I heard that was all her fault.
526709/01/2016, 23:01 - A Collins: Do people have to take a chaperone to 
5268
5269meetings with you?
527009/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collins: Haha yes I remember running from that 
5271
5272night :/
527309/01/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: I think John Chisholm once said "it's been 
5274
5275a whole meeting and kitty hasn't talked about sexual harassment but I 
5276
5277see her hand is up currently so it's not too late".
527809/01/2016, 23:05 - A Collins: Wow. Interesting.
527909/01/2016, 23:07 - C Castles: What was your hand up?
528009/01/2016, 23:09 - K Mohan: Everyone turned to look at me as they were 
5281
5282wondering exactly that, Conan.
528309/01/2016, 23:09 - K Mohan: It was a bit awks.
528409/01/2016, 23:09 - K Mohan: Anyway back to Bethan.
528509/01/2016, 23:11 - B Roberts: What was your hand up, Kitty?
528609/01/2016, 23:11 - A Collins: See, back to Bethan :)
528709/01/2016, 23:11 - B Roberts: Stop telling people things that will 
5288
5289help them work out how old I am!
529009/01/2016, 23:12 - B Roberts: I ain't done nuthin'!
529109/01/2016, 23:12 - B Roberts: Oh, Conan beat me with the filthy hand 
5292
5293comment!
529409/01/2016, 23:12 - B Roberts: This group moves too fast for me!
529509/01/2016, 23:12 - C Castles: Haha
529609/01/2016, 23:15 - K Mohan: Haha. You're just too old. Keep up.
529709/01/2016, 23:15 - B Roberts: Anyway, chair has declared me "sweet and 
5298
5299innocent" so it must be true.
530009/01/2016, 23:15 - K Mohan: No he lies. A lot.
530109/01/2016, 23:17 - A Collins: A nice chap called Jeremy once told me 
5302
5303so...
530409/01/2016, 23:18 - C Bell: Just spent eve with lords Adonis and 
5305
5306Eatwell. Both were pretty ignorant of contract specifics but are gonna 
5307
5308push it this week
530909/01/2016, 23:18 - B Roberts: They sound made up, Charlie!
531009/01/2016, 23:18 - A Collins: That's a very enjoyable message!
531109/01/2016, 23:18 - K Mohan: So to summarise the last round of 
5312
5313discussion:
5314
5315Melody loves Jeeves
5316Everyone loves Yannis
5317We all are #jofanns
5318Bethan is a bad influence.
5319
5320'Night all
532109/01/2016, 23:19 - M Redman: We're all fannis too
532209/01/2016, 23:19 - C Bell: Haha Adonis is a big boy in labour (or was 
5323
5324before resigning the whip)
532509/01/2016, 23:20 - C Bell: It was a dinner at eatwells house. This now 
5326
5327sounds too made up.
532809/01/2016, 23:20 - C Castles: Adonis and Eatwell? They do sound made 
5329
5330up
533109/01/2016, 23:20 - C Bell: Ahaha
533209/01/2016, 23:20 - A Yassaee: Was this a Queens thing?
533309/01/2016, 23:20 - C Bell: Nope
533409/01/2016, 23:21 - C Bell: But at queens
533509/01/2016, 23:21 - A Collins: Eatwell hosted a dinner? Really? 
5336
5337Unimaginative :p
533809/01/2016, 23:21 - C Bell: ;)
533909/01/2016, 23:21 - A Collins: Lol
534009/01/2016, 23:40 - K Mohan: 
5341
5342http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12090372/Jeremy-Hunt-warns-junior-
5343
5344doctors-strike-will-harm-patients.html
534509/01/2016, 23:40 - B Roberts: It's the particular pairing that makes 
5346
5347them sound made up. Dinner at Eatwell's - I hope the food was as good 
5348
5349as advertised!
535009/01/2016, 23:41 - C Castles: Sigh
535109/01/2016, 23:42 - A Collins: doctors are "basically saying 'we won't 
5352
5353be there for you in life-threatening situations'."
5354
5355
5356when junior doctors withdraw care for 24 hours for all but emergencies 
5357
5358on Tuesday
535909/01/2016, 23:42 - A Collins: He's even internally inconsistent.
536009/01/2016, 23:43 - C Castles: I was about the point that out too
536109/01/2016, 23:44 - A Collins: Mr Hunt said that the Government is now 
5362
5363going through the "exhaustive process" of contacting every A&E 
5364
5365department in the country to establish whether they will have enough 
5366
5367staff to stay open.
5368
5369
5370How stupid are the DH? I mean really, the ED docs aren't even striking, 
5371
5372lottie has told us... Occasionally ;)
537309/01/2016, 23:45 - C Castles: Arghhhhh, dont start that again
537409/01/2016, 23:46 - L J Davis: No no no NO!
537509/01/2016, 23:46 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha just read this whole 
5376
5377stream! Made me smile. Thanks guys. Fanis by the way is an actual greek 
5378
5379name.
538009/01/2016, 23:47 - A Collins: OMG it's not all about bloody Greece 
5381
5382mate :p
538309/01/2016, 23:47 - L J Davis: So. Bbc points west want to talk to a 
5384
5385medical parent about what the new contract might mean. Local group 
5386
5387pointed them in my direction. That's ok. BUT. They want to come to my 
5388
5389house to film us on Monday. My house!!!
539009/01/2016, 23:47 - L J Davis: Kitty!
539109/01/2016, 23:48 - L J Davis: I tried explaining that with an 11 week 
5392
5393old it's a bit of a mess.
539409/01/2016, 23:48 - A Borbora: Derek Machin says that the Bma line in 
5395
53961975 was to tell people "drive carefully because if you have an 
5397
5398accident there might not be any a&e open to look after you"
539909/01/2016, 23:49 - L J Davis: (I didn't try explaining that I'm a 
5400
5401complete house slut who is unable to tidy & is surrounded by 
5402
5403clutter!!!)
540409/01/2016, 23:49 - L J Davis: 1975 freaked LOTS of people out.
540509/01/2016, 23:50 - C Castles: Probably all the acid
540609/01/2016, 23:50 - L J Davis: Mainly coz I was born then. And the 666 
5407
5408on my head made news...
540909/01/2016, 23:50 - K Mohan: Your house is lovely. Just get Nathan to 
5410
5411entertain them.
541209/01/2016, 23:50 - K Mohan: Works for me.
541309/01/2016, 23:53 - A Collins: You get Nathan to entertain your media 
5414
5415contacts? No wonder it's Collier who gets all the air time...
541609/01/2016, 23:55 - B Roberts: I have no words about the Telegraph 
5417
5418article. Where did the Nazi comparison come from?
541909/01/2016, 23:57 - C Bell: CHRIST THAT FUCKING ARTICLE
542009/01/2016, 23:57 - C Bell: (Apologies for language but holy f*** that 
5421
5422is an outrage)
542309/01/2016, 23:58 - A Yassaee: Wasn't it dep council chair?
542409/01/2016, 23:58 - C Bell: Yes
542509/01/2016, 23:58 - K Mohan: Yes think so.
542609/01/2016, 23:58 - A Yassaee: Not at all surprising
542709/01/2016, 23:59 - C Castles: Yeah, kailish chand said goebbels would 
5428
5429be proud
543009/01/2016, 23:59 - A Yassaee: That was helpful of him.
543110/01/2016, 00:01 - C Bell: Council's specialist subject is being 
5432
5433helpful
543410/01/2016, 00:02 - A Collins: And they are superb.
543510/01/2016, 00:03 - A Yassaee: Re the article, yes his statement 
5436
5437doesn't align with the facts, but that's relying on people actually 
5438
5439reading the specifics of both the offer and the IA form. 
5440
5441Ultimately this public facing discussion never going to work that way. 
5442
5443And tbh what he said is pretty much what I would have done if I were 
5444
5445him. 
5446
5447I think the best line of the past week has been "who do you trust?". I 
5448
5449hate to boil down complicated negotiations to tag lines but that might 
5450
5451actually be (by some margin);the most effective line we have over the 
5452
5453next few weeks.
545410/01/2016, 00:03 - A Collins: How long till a series of us "come out"  
5455
5456as tory supporting members of the bma/jdc/exec?
545710/01/2016, 00:04 - A Collins: Perhaps that could be my next media 
5458
5459friendly fb post ;)
546010/01/2016, 00:44 - J Malawana: Can I remind exec the nomination 
5461
5462process for council is open.
546310/01/2016, 00:46 - J Malawana: https://secure2.votebyinternet.com/V2-
5464
54653-2/(S(bc62f6bb-7a31-44eb-8a49-
5466
54679063f9d1848aAMIYwAAAAAAAAA=i5DaqQoBqVe6DNdFpVi))/bmanoms2016/en/nominat
5468
5469ionform?bbp=26350&x=1
547010/01/2016, 00:52 - C Castles: What was the plan?
547110/01/2016, 00:54 - J Malawana: Stool chart?
547210/01/2016, 00:55 - C Castles: Yeah, with a type 8
547310/01/2016, 00:55 - C Castles: It amused me
547410/01/2016, 01:26 - L J Davis: I think "who do you trust" works.
5475
5476I also think something about dedication and not being able to choose 
5477
5478working patterns is important. That's one of the key things that sets 
5479
5480us apart from other workers; we don't opt in/opt out of weekends  or 
5481
5482nights; most other workers can.  We just get Rota'd on & unless we swap 
5483
5484out...
5485
5486Plus we do this for a lifetime. That's vocation, innit?
5487
5488(Note, nothing to do with how many degrees, how 'professional' or any 
5489
5490other bollocks).
549110/01/2016, 07:30 - M Redman: At least the sun think Rousey is a 
5492
5493'bubbly guy': http://www.donotlink.com/framed?831941
549410/01/2016, 07:30 - M Redman: Poor jdc people ??
549510/01/2016, 07:42 - A Collins: The sun are a shower of shite. Screw 
5496
5497them all. Chin up yoyo, rousey et al :(
549810/01/2016, 07:44 - A Collins: Very pleased that Our Dear Leader's 
5499
5500photography business is going so well it bought him a house though! 
5501
5502????????????????????
550310/01/2016, 07:49 - D Rouse: I'm in the sub
550410/01/2016, 07:49 - D Rouse: Sun lol gcs
550510/01/2016, 07:50 - A Collins: We don't have an attack sub?! I think we 
5506
5507need one. Preferably nuclear. For prolonged IA
550810/01/2016, 07:52 - D Rouse: That should say. I'm in the sun. FFS!
550910/01/2016, 07:53 - D Rouse: No one tell them I'm not in the UK
551010/01/2016, 07:53 - J Malawana: I have already told them
551110/01/2016, 07:53 - D Rouse: Why haven't they mentioned kittys credit 
5512
5513card
551410/01/2016, 07:53 - J Malawana: A e is falling apart as you ski
551510/01/2016, 07:53 - D Rouse: Just to clarify. Those photos are 4 years 
5516
5517old
551810/01/2016, 07:53 - D Rouse: However greatful as I don't look fat or 
5519
5520aged
552110/01/2016, 07:53 - J Malawana: They had to bring in an obstetrician to 
5522
5523run the a e.
552410/01/2016, 07:53 - J Malawana: But he was quite good.
552510/01/2016, 07:54 - J Malawana: :-)
552610/01/2016, 07:54 - D Rouse: Interestingly the photo of me with the 
5527
5528glass is at Prof Andrew Rowlands French villa
552910/01/2016, 07:54 - M Redman: PROF ROWLAND ????????
553010/01/2016, 07:54 - D Rouse: And is a cheap supermarket bottle hahaa 
5531
5532he'll be glad to know they think his place is a swanky restaurant
553310/01/2016, 07:54 - J Malawana: David don't get photographed.
553410/01/2016, 07:55 - J Malawana: Whatever you do.
553510/01/2016, 07:55 - J Malawana: And no posting any apres ski pics
553610/01/2016, 07:56 - J Malawana: Has everyone else deleted or increased 
5537
5538privacy settings on Facebook?
553910/01/2016, 07:56 - J Malawana: This is going to get a lot worse and a 
5540
5541lot more personal.
554210/01/2016, 07:57 - J Malawana: Apart from for kitty. Who is pissed off 
5543
5544they aren't targeting her.
554510/01/2016, 07:57 - D Rouse: Kitty is touting for business
554610/01/2016, 07:57 - D Rouse: My Facebook profile is as secure as I can 
5547
5548make it other than deleting it
554910/01/2016, 07:57 - D Rouse: Which I am considering doing
555010/01/2016, 07:58 - D Rouse: And just having my Twitter
555110/01/2016, 07:59 - D Rouse: My friend Paul has taken great offence 
5552
5553that they have included a picture of him on the front page along with 
5554
5555me and has tweeted the sun appropriately
555610/01/2016, 08:01 - L J Davis: I was about to say that the bubbly one 
5557
5558looks like you're in a student kitchen. But I wont insult Andrews 
5559
5560French chateaux 
5561And are you a bit sozzled already in the photo?
556210/01/2016, 08:01 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
556310/01/2016, 08:01 - D Rouse: First glass
556410/01/2016, 08:01 - D Rouse: And that's a bowl of salad
556510/01/2016, 08:01 - D Rouse: Hardly haunt cuisine
556610/01/2016, 08:01 - D Rouse: Think Pauls tweet summed up what I'd like 
5567
5568to say but sadly cannot
556910/01/2016, 08:02 - L J Davis: Yeah. First glass...
5570
5571Such a lightweight.
557210/01/2016, 08:04 - L J Davis: I'm interested. They've used ©Facebook - 
5573
5574so who does copyright for photos lie with? It's not Facebook, is it? I 
5575
5576thought it was the individual?
557710/01/2016, 08:05 - D Rouse: It is with Facebook
557810/01/2016, 08:05 - D Rouse: It's in the small print that they own the 
5579
5580copy if posted
558110/01/2016, 08:07 - M Redman: Johann why do you say it's gonna get 
5582
5583worse? Are you aware of something?
558410/01/2016, 08:07 - J Malawana: All photos on Facebook are owned by 
5585
5586Facebook.
558710/01/2016, 08:07 - J Malawana: Not by account holders.
558810/01/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: Just how they operate.
558910/01/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: They will really go for us after 
5590
5591Tuesday. This is just the warning shot.
559210/01/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: They are desperately trying tondig up 
5593
5594stuff.
559510/01/2016, 08:08 - C Bell: Dame Sally Davis is being helpful
559610/01/2016, 08:09 - J Malawana: Whatever happens this will turn 
5597
5598personal. We just need to be prepped for it.
559910/01/2016, 08:09 - J Malawana: Take it on the chin and move on.
560010/01/2016, 08:09 - D Rouse: Hurray I'm glad that my personal life is 
5601
5602about to be plastered across national media
560310/01/2016, 08:10 - J Malawana: Don't worry. I doubt it will be.
560410/01/2016, 08:11 - J Malawana: They will probably go after mark or me 
5605
5606or some other council people now as there are far easier targets. It 
5607
5608makes better reading talking about fat cats etc.
560910/01/2016, 08:11 - J Malawana: Luckily Yannis lives a relatively 
5610
5611cloistered life in his hospital digs.
561210/01/2016, 08:13 - J Malawana: So at least we won't be hearing about 
5613
5614that. Yannis is there big target as I think they see him as politically 
5615
5616useable. If they can just find personal stuff they would probably cream 
5617
5618themselves.
561910/01/2016, 08:13 - J Malawana: It's what happens when you stand up to 
5620
5621a minister in the pocket of Murdoch.
562210/01/2016, 08:13 - D Rouse: Awww deputy chairs move aside - this will 
5623
5624get personal you are right
562510/01/2016, 08:15 - J Malawana: Give them a story by posting ski pics. 
5626
5627At least it will take the heat off us? Take one for the team :-)
562810/01/2016, 08:15 - J Malawana: That's a joke. I can already hear 
5629
5630Gadsby shouting at me.
563110/01/2016, 08:15 - J Malawana: Don't do that.
563210/01/2016, 08:17 - A Collier You'll be pleased to know that the Sun 
5633
5634article didn't come up in an LBC interview I've just done. I think 
5635
5636deactivating Facebook accounts and cleansing social media profiles of 
5637
5638embarrassing pics/comments would be a very sensible move for all of JDC 
5639
5640to make right now.
564110/01/2016, 08:41 - K Mohan: Aw. Andrew do you have a contract with 
5642
5643LBC? You really should negotiate one. Maybe after this expose of JDC 
5644
5645members lives stops though...
5646
5647The bit about Petra whilst awful made me lol. Here is someone with an 
5648
5649elephant. WTAF.
565010/01/2016, 08:43 - A Collier It's does feel like that! LBC rang we 5 
5651
5652times for interviews but my phone was thankfully was off!
565310/01/2016, 08:44 - A Collier The Petra bit of the Sun article is my 
5654
5655favourite too. I wanted them to conclude that she either owned it or 
5656
5657had shot it.
565810/01/2016, 08:44 - K Mohan: I'm not even joking.
5659
5660Tbh. I think many of us are going to have to use our social media 
5661
5662accounts to communicate up to and on the day so need to just remove/put 
5663
5664high security settings on everything. Anyone who can should just 
5665
5666suspend the account though.
566710/01/2016, 08:53 - K Mohan: Johann, that guys hasn't taken this down 
5668
5669yet.
567010/01/2016, 08:53 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
567110/01/2016, 08:58 - L J Davis: People are treating the fbgod like its a 
5672
5673giant Drs mess. They are chatting & ranting & gossiping, which is fab. 
5674
5675But it's not the mess. It's public. I don't know how we reinforce that. 
5676
5677Someone is going to come a cropper.
567810/01/2016, 08:59 - L J Davis: It's actually doing what the BMA 
5679
5680envisaged for communities, isn't it?
568110/01/2016, 09:02 - K Mohan: Generally speaking I don't care what they 
5682
5683say, well I do, but I care more then they post something that can be 
5684
5685directly used against one of us.
568610/01/2016, 09:03 - L J Davis: Yes. But I also worry that someone will 
5687
5688end up in legal/gmc hot water...
568910/01/2016, 09:05 - L J Davis: Examples of Stupid things so far... 
5690
5691Whoever posted the photo of jh at a weekend with his young children...
569210/01/2016, 09:07 - L J Davis: ...People making frankly arrogant 
5693
5694comments about other people who work on a Saturday (like in shops, 
5695
5696etc)...
569710/01/2016, 09:08 - K Mohan: I just don't think we can police that 
5698
5699forum. It's a waste of time we need to spend working on making Tuesday 
5700
5701as successful ask possible.
5702
5703If it shuts down, is suspended temporarily that would be good but it's 
5704
5705unlikely to. 
5706
5707So I think we just need to focus on our main issue at hand and ignore 
5708
5709all other distractions.
571010/01/2016, 09:10 - L J Davis: Can't police. But should still be 
5711
5712concerned. It's a huge part of the bigger picture for members & will 
5713
5714underlie success on Tuesday.
571510/01/2016, 09:13 - A Collins: My worry would be that they have 
5716
5717gathered what they want to and  are slowly releasing it so that taking 
5718
5719photos down now is too late. However there's nothing we can do about it 
5720
5721so I'm gonna go back to theatre.
572210/01/2016, 09:14 - Z Greaves: Mmm reading back and looking at the 
5723
5724torigraph article I wonder if it is worth outing some of us exec 
5725
5726members as right leaning? Would make a strong case on the back of that 
5727
5728article - maybe check my privacy settings first tho lol
572910/01/2016, 09:15 - K Mohan: I think we're going to have to agree to 
5730
5731disagree. Of course it is important as it has been throughout the 
5732
5733lifetime of the forum. Of course people are going to be looking for 
5734
5735more crap to publish about us all. But the single biggest thing that 
5736
5737will underlie the success of Tuesday is people actually taking IA, and 
5738
5739being visible whilst doing it (on pickets etc). We need to communicate 
5740
5741with people to do that and need to reassure them as well that they are 
5742
5743all not automatically going to be targeted if they take IA. Some people 
5744
5745are responding unhelpfully but many many are silent and may be freaking 
5746
5747out quietly.
574810/01/2016, 09:18 - Z Greaves: I mean as far as I can work out our exec 
5749
5750is as balanced as they come with as many leaning right as left and more 
5751
5752centrists than anything
575310/01/2016, 09:21 - A Collins: Yeah, I agree with kitty about comms. We 
5754
5755know we need to be the people who do the communicating as BMA channels 
5756
5757are a bit pants. 
5758
5759I also think there is a quiet point in that last 2 sentences about 
5760
5761standing up to he counted. If we're seen to disappear from social media 
5762
5763people will then worry that we're worried and that sends the wrong 
5764
5765message. 
5766
5767I think we have to be careful about our social media presences but also 
5768
5769maintain a degree of leadership. 
5770
5771That said I'm incredibly aware that I am sitting North of the border 
5772
5773and a little out of it all.
577410/01/2016, 09:21 - A Collins: I think zoe is really onto something. I 
5775
5776was sort of joking when I said it yesterday, but it irritates me that 
5777
5778we get painted as lefty trouble makers when a lot of us are right 
5779
5780leaning trouble makers ;)
578110/01/2016, 09:26 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
578210/01/2016, 09:42 - C Bell: Yannis you're on radio 4
578310/01/2016, 09:43 - K Mohan: hopefully yannis knows...
578410/01/2016, 09:43 - C Bell: He's being mentioned, he's not speaking
578510/01/2016, 09:43 - C Bell: I'm not a complete idiot.
578610/01/2016, 09:44 - K Mohan: thanks charlie. i didn;t mean that. i 
5787
5788meant hopefully the story is one we knew might break today.
578910/01/2016, 09:45 - C Bell: We got fuckrd in the discussion
579010/01/2016, 09:45 - C Bell: No support at all
579110/01/2016, 09:45 - K Mohan: is melo doing the ethics/religion 
5792
5793programme today?
579410/01/2016, 09:45 - A Collier I had a brief lapse in my R4 listening, 
5795
5796what did they say about Yannis?
579710/01/2016, 09:46 - C Bell: Usual stuff, momentum, far left, etc
579810/01/2016, 09:46 - C Bell: Cable claiming not to know what is 
5799
5800happening
580110/01/2016, 09:47 - C Bell: Rees Mogg being a shit for brains
580210/01/2016, 09:47 - C Bell: They chose the sun piece
580310/01/2016, 09:47 - A Collier Well yesterday's any answers gave us 
5804
5805almost 26 minutes of positive coverage so i guess they have to balance 
5806
5807things up
580810/01/2016, 09:48 - C Bell: True
580910/01/2016, 09:48 - C Bell: But cable is a dick
581010/01/2016, 09:48 - A Collier Yes, an old pillock
581110/01/2016, 09:49 - A Collier Especially as I briefed him in person and 
5812
5813the Daily Politics.
581410/01/2016, 09:49 - A Collier How dare he forget me :-P
581510/01/2016, 09:50 - C Bell: Precisely
581610/01/2016, 10:49 - D Tooth: Is melody on big questions? I think she 
5817
5818might be behind the woman talking now, but think I missed the IA part
581910/01/2016, 10:49 - D Tooth: Oh no don't think it's her
582010/01/2016, 10:52 - L Boyle: On the FB issue - by all means I think 
5821
5822tighten up privacy settings etc, but the idea that we should cow down 
5823
5824to these fuckers & essentially apologise for having lives - by rinsing 
5825
5826our profiles - it's a no from me to that. I say that as someone who 
5827
5828hasn't been targeted ofc, but the whole thing is ridiculous & pathetic
582910/01/2016, 10:58 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Just read the papers. Could have 
5830
5831been worse. And agree with johann could b worse on mon/tue. My 
5832
5833favourite bit is 'bubbly guy Dr Rouse' ....which u are david...good to 
5834
5835see it in print! ;-)
583610/01/2016, 11:00 - A Yassaee: Re Adam and Zoe - I once got heckled 
5837
5838when on stage at ARM as a "neoliberal Tory appeaser"
583910/01/2016, 11:05 - L Boyle: Clearly not so bubbly if you suggest that 
5840
5841A&E doctors are anything less than Gods that walk the earth ??
5842Amused me reading through this morning - let's not start it again!
584310/01/2016, 11:12 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Arrash i hope u know that wasnt 
5844
5845me!! ;-) but yep arrash....time u came out. 'Close confidante to Tory 
5846
5847peers has ear of J Malawana' We'll get a front page somewhere!
584810/01/2016, 11:14 - M Redman: No I was meant to be on but BBC rang me 
5849
5850last min on Fri to say bma hadn't sent my deets in time (which media 
5851
5852office denied) so they got a random Dr from London. so annoying after 
5853
5854I'd put in massive effort to swap shift and media office were peeved as 
5855
5856randomer on.
585710/01/2016, 11:14 - K Mohan: were they any good?
585810/01/2016, 11:18 - A Collins: Interesting. I wonder if that was 
5859
5860deliberate.
586110/01/2016, 11:21 - D Tooth: Was that dr khan? People are talking on 
5862
5863Feb but didn't see the content to comment
586410/01/2016, 11:22 - M Redman: I dunno at work soz
586510/01/2016, 11:35 - Z Greaves: Arm is not the same as the average 
5866
5867member tho - we'd prob get a bit of grumble from a smattering of 
5868
5869members but I think the majority who are apolitical and vote across the 
5870
5871spectrum would be reassured to know that there is representation from 
5872
5873both sides at decision making levels within the association
587410/01/2016, 11:36 - A Yassaee: I actually hadn't thought about that but 
5875
5876now you mention it I think you're right Zoe.
587710/01/2016, 11:51 - A Collins: I suppose there are 2 sides to it. One 
5878
5879is to totally dismiss the accusations that our personal politics 
5880
5881influence our BMA decision making, and the other is to reveal our 
5882
5883personal politics to show balance
588410/01/2016, 11:51 - A Collins: If we engage at all we validate their 
5885
5886accusations that our personal politics influence us is the risk?
588710/01/2016, 11:59 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I think there is no need to 
5888
5889engage. The validation thing will b a concern. The media would not even 
5890
5891report it if people came out as Tory. This tactic of a 'Labour Left' 
5892
5893behind strikes is always deployed. Hunt in todays telegraph has advised 
5894
5895the BMA to 'rein in' the troublesome elements. Interesting. 
5896
5897Anyway...other subject...sally davies eh? What do people think.
589810/01/2016, 11:59 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Expected? Dissapointed?
589910/01/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: What's she done/not done now?
590010/01/2016, 12:04 - A Yassaee: Utterly unsurprising
590110/01/2016, 12:16 - K Mohan: yannis (or someone else) can you post 
5902
5903sally davies article (presume there's something new today). can't find 
5904
5905it though
590610/01/2016, 12:19 - A Borbora: Yannis is right. There is no point in 
5907
5908those of us who don't support left-wing politics saying so as it is a 
5909
5910non-story. 
5911Like most things it'll go away but we must focus on supporting any 
5912
5913member so targeted and having a tough time. 
5914I'd be very careful about public or listserver condemnations of 
5915
5916newspapers in ways that could be seen as arrogant. They might leak, 
5917
5918providing the next story.
591910/01/2016, 12:19 - D Rouse: Hahah thanks Yannis I am bubbly
592010/01/2016, 12:19 - D Rouse: And a god apparently cheers like
592110/01/2016, 12:21 - L J Davis: Is that 'cheers' as you pour your next 
5922
5923glass, david?
592410/01/2016, 12:21 - J Malawana: Hi exec members can all members that 
5925
5926are free for interviews or anything else on Tuesday to email me to tell 
5927
5928me where they will be. I am assuming there will be lots of local media 
5929
5930requests. One email. And which picket lines. Need to be at a picket 
5931
5932line realistically.
593310/01/2016, 12:21 - J Malawana: jmalawana@bma.org.uk
593410/01/2016, 12:22 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hey Johann. I will not be doing 
5935
5936interviews. Is that ok? ;-)
593710/01/2016, 12:23 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Done enough media this wk.
593810/01/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: :)
593910/01/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: yannis, what did sally davies do?
594010/01/2016, 12:24 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Juat rying to find it....
594110/01/2016, 12:24 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Basically read it in the 
5942
5943newsagent
594410/01/2016, 12:24 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I think basicall she briefly said 
5945
5946is against strike as danger to patients
594710/01/2016, 12:26 - T Crocker-Buque: Someone should send her the BMJ 
5948
5949article.
595010/01/2016, 12:26 - K Mohan: she was in the telegraph article earlier 
5951
5952this week http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12013866/Junior-doctors-
5953
5954strike-what-do-the-experts-think.html
595510/01/2016, 12:26 - Y Gourtsouyannis: So doing a quicl online search 
5956
5957actually difficult to find anything except for this
595810/01/2016, 12:26 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 
5959
5960http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12013866/Junior-doctors-strike-
5961
5962what-do-the-experts-think.html
596310/01/2016, 12:27 - K Mohan: ha yes
596410/01/2016, 12:27 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ah u beat me to it kitty
596510/01/2016, 12:27 - Y Gourtsouyannis: So maybe i think they are just 
5966
5967repeating that statement and spinning it a little
596810/01/2016, 12:27 - K Mohan: there's nothing on twitter either but 
5969
5970clearly still 43 1/2 hours to go.
597110/01/2016, 12:28 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I'm sure she will b pressed into 
5972
5973service
597410/01/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: Have we got a statement ready for if we 
5975
5976are accused of allowing a patient to die
597710/01/2016, 12:31 - D Rouse: Or it's because of us
597810/01/2016, 12:31 - A Borbora: Mark would deal with such a scenario
597910/01/2016, 12:32 - D Rouse: Has he peeped
598010/01/2016, 12:32 - A Borbora: It's been discussed - it's not something 
5981
5982for a junior doctor to handle.
598310/01/2016, 12:32 - L J Davis: Think we need to have a clear media 
5984
5985escalation plan shared with juniors...
598610/01/2016, 12:33 - L J Davis: Because yes, it should be mark...
598710/01/2016, 12:33 - A Borbora: Comms has one. It went through disputes. 
5988
5989It's hard to share something like that with juniors as the media will 
5990
5991pick up on it and use it against us.
599210/01/2016, 12:33 - L J Davis: Is it on oneprofession? I ?? 
5993
5994oneprofession amjad!
599510/01/2016, 12:34 - L J Davis: It could be very generic; simple as 'if 
5996
5997something significant happens... Contact media office...
599810/01/2016, 12:37 - A Borbora: It's a private internal document that 
5999
6000deals with all sorts of adverse outcomes and problems
600110/01/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: Oh god
600210/01/2016, 12:46 - D Rouse: #moetmedics is now trending in Twitter lol
600310/01/2016, 12:47 - A Borbora: Plebs. I only drink Bolly.
600410/01/2016, 12:48 - A Collins: Lol
600510/01/2016, 12:49 - J Malawana: Sally Davies isn't a big deal
600610/01/2016, 12:49 - K Mohan: Agree Johann.
600710/01/2016, 12:50 - J Malawana: The telegraph story actually got 
6008
6009stripped out. It was going to be really bad but Paul talked to them a 
6010
6011lot and is a lot less prominent than was initially being pushed by 
6012
6013Jezza. They were always going to do it. But we need it reduced
601410/01/2016, 12:50 - J Malawana: Spent the morning putting Kailash Chand 
6015
6016in his box.
601710/01/2016, 12:50 - K Mohan: :)
601810/01/2016, 12:50 - J Malawana: He is trying to run his and David 
6019
6020wrigleys council election on the back of this.
602110/01/2016, 12:51 - J Malawana: Anyway they are now going to shut up 
6022
6023till Wednesday and should have all their stuff removed. If it isn't 
6024
6025then say and will chase it up with them but they have now fully 
6026
6027committed that they won't be doing anything till they get permission 
6028
6029first which won't be coming.
603010/01/2016, 12:52 - J Malawana: The rest of the BMA needs to stay quiet 
6031
6032apart from Mark and JDC members.
603310/01/2016, 12:52 - A Collins: I think reps should potentially be 
6034
6035reminded in as abstract a fashion as possible that pr/media support is 
6036
6037here from the BMA in case of adverse events. But I agree that being 
6038
6039seen to say "if someone dies just fob it off on the media office"  
6040
6041would be a a disaster
604210/01/2016, 12:52 - J Malawana: We can't say anything till Tuesday. 
6043
6044Need silence till then so we don't give them material.
604510/01/2016, 12:53 - K Mohan: Are you going to tell council that?
6046
6047Agree- I don't think we need to state that publicly at the moment. It's 
6048
6049obvious. Also those stories will come on wed and beyond not ties so any 
6050
6051advice can wait I think
605210/01/2016, 12:53 - K Mohan: Tues not ties
605310/01/2016, 12:54 - J Malawana: Tomorrow we will plan out all the media 
6054
6055bids. We want everything regionalised so each person on exec that is up 
6056
6057for media will be responsible for their regions.
605810/01/2016, 12:54 - J Malawana: It's gotta be exec members speaking for 
6059
6060the BMA and non BMA speaking.
606110/01/2016, 12:54 - J Malawana: Not random BMA folk trying to get their 
6062
6063profiles up.
606410/01/2016, 12:55 - J Malawana: Non BMA speaking is fine as they are 
6065
6066the grassroots uprising and saying all the things we can't say.
606710/01/2016, 13:11 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
606810/01/2016, 13:11 - D Rouse: What's on earth
606910/01/2016, 13:11 - D Rouse: Maria Estelle mcV posted this
607010/01/2016, 13:13 - K Mohan: erm that's not helpful.
607110/01/2016, 13:13 - D Rouse: Is that Anna W in the photo
607210/01/2016, 13:13 - K Mohan: is that thing up in parliament sq
607310/01/2016, 13:13 - D Rouse: Yes
607410/01/2016, 13:17 - L J Davis: Well. That's interesting.
607510/01/2016, 13:18 - B Roberts: What?!
607610/01/2016, 13:18 - A Yassaee: I guess we can commend them on the 
6077
6078structural integrity of their display?
607910/01/2016, 13:18 - B Roberts: In other news, #smearthedocs is awesome!
608010/01/2016, 13:20 - K Mohan: agree arrash. i'm slightly tempted to go 
6081
6082and have a look.
608310/01/2016, 13:20 - L J Davis: As far as media; no it's not obvious 
6084
6085that people should contact the media office & Wednesday is too late. 
6086
6087People may panic instead and accidentally comment, whilst wearing their 
6088
6089hi-vis BMA jacket, holding a BMA placard... Plus pts & the media have 
6090
6091access to social media to 'share'...
609210/01/2016, 13:21 - A Borbora: If I were in London I'd go and look at 
6093
6094that thing 
6095Wonder who paid for it?
609610/01/2016, 13:31 - A Collins: I agree with LJ on media advice!
609710/01/2016, 13:43 - L J Davis: (I don't really understand the punt 
6098
6099thing... I'm not sure what they are trying to say or achieve; which is 
6100
6101a shame. As it looks like lots of effort and money has gone in to 
6102
6103crating it).
610410/01/2016, 13:47 - D Rouse: Am sure they will try and claim for it out 
6105
6106of the fighting fund
610710/01/2016, 13:48 - D Rouse: Wonder what dearden will say lol
610810/01/2016, 13:49 - A Borbora: Lol they can try to give us all a laugh 
6109It's quite witty but pretty ineffective
611010/01/2016, 13:51 - L J Davis: Hurray! Meeting bbc points west person 
6111
6112in a cafe round the corner, not my house!!! (Tim put his foot down). 
6113
6114Apparently they are running a piece tmr night in preparation...
611510/01/2016, 13:57 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Guys quick question; are the BMA 
6116
6117putting out a formal and final johann/porter motivatory email out to 
6118
6119all members early tmro urging participation on Tues? Hope so. Am sure 
6120
6121this was discussed but missed final plan.
612210/01/2016, 14:01 - K Mohan: I second this from Yannis. Would be really 
6123
6124useful.
612510/01/2016, 14:03 - J Malawana: I will Yannis.
612610/01/2016, 14:03 - J Malawana: Wil talk to them.
612710/01/2016, 14:04 - A Borbora: Most regional chairs are doing so as 
6128
6129well - when they send out their region's final plans
613010/01/2016, 14:04 - L J Davis: Do you want a mini bottle of Moët to 
6131
6132drink thu a straw whilst you are videoed?
613310/01/2016, 14:30 - A Borbora: http://m.bma.org.uk/news-views-
6134
6135analysis/news/2016/medical-students-stand-firm-with-juniors
6136
6137Glad to see the pledge being used
613810/01/2016, 14:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 
6139
6140http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/10/junior-doctors-
6141
6142strike-nhs-jeremy-hunt
614310/01/2016, 14:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Observer today. Good article esp 
6144
6145the second half
614610/01/2016, 15:08 - B Roberts: #smearthedocs top trending on Twitter 
6147
6148now!
614910/01/2016, 15:09 - A Borbora: An ASLEF rep I know says we have their 
6150
6151full support. One for you Yannis...
615210/01/2016, 15:35 - D Rouse: Haha
615310/01/2016, 15:35 - D Rouse: What's happened to Moët medics
615410/01/2016, 15:35 - D Rouse: And is this that in support or against
615510/01/2016, 15:39 - B Roberts: #smearthemedics is the backlash. I'm 
6156
6157refusing to retweet anything with #moetmedics, mainly because they 
6158
6159can't spell it properly...
616010/01/2016, 15:41 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
616110/01/2016, 15:42 - A Borbora: One of the things the ACAS team were 
6162
6163saying was how unhelpful social media is to industrial disputes.
616410/01/2016, 15:43 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
616510/01/2016, 15:49 - J Malawana: That's a matter of opinion Aaron.
616610/01/2016, 15:49 - J Malawana: Acas have to say that
616710/01/2016, 15:49 - J Malawana: They don't care if we get a good deal
616810/01/2016, 15:49 - J Malawana: Their job is to make sure there is not 
6169
6170strike.
617110/01/2016, 15:50 - B Roberts: @Aaron - ha ha!
617210/01/2016, 15:50 - A Borbora: Yes but they were also saying it has 
6173
6174left Union reps more open to personal attack than before and provides 
6175
6176additional distractions from the negs process.
617710/01/2016, 15:50 - J Malawana: I've had several prominent people say 
6178
6179that creating a the capacity to negotiate has been something that trade 
6180
6181unions will need to learn from for years to come.
618210/01/2016, 15:51 - J Malawana: Again that's acas doing its job. It 
6183
6184cares little for the deal
618510/01/2016, 15:51 - J Malawana: It's role is to stop strikes.
618610/01/2016, 15:51 - A Borbora: But on the other side it has opened up 
6187
6188our mandate and enthused members so it's a double edged thing
618910/01/2016, 15:51 - J Malawana: The details of the deal is secondary.
619010/01/2016, 15:52 - J Malawana: We always have to focus on our primary 
6191
6192goal. Getting the best deal for individual doctors.
619310/01/2016, 15:52 - J Malawana: That's the only yardstick that matters.
619410/01/2016, 15:52 - J Malawana: And the fact we as an organisation can 
6195
6196never ever crow about it if we succeed.
619710/01/2016, 15:53 - J Malawana: That's where the GPC went so wrong.
619810/01/2016, 15:53 - J Malawana: Not getting the deal.  Lauding it over 
6199
6200the government afterwards.
620110/01/2016, 15:53 - J Malawana: Get the deal and the walk away.
620210/01/2016, 15:55 - D Rouse: If anything their attacks over social 
6203
6204media make them look desperate Aaron
620510/01/2016, 15:55 - A Borbora: People did yet good deals before social 
6206
6207media, though. They just relied on a strong local rep network, 
6208
6209something that we are beginning to establish thankfully.
621010/01/2016, 16:21 - B Roberts: Rousey enjoys "eating fancy meals". This 
6211
6212is earth-shattering journalism.
621310/01/2016, 16:25 - D Rouse: Well the mail had to jump on board
621410/01/2016, 16:36 - K Mohan: guys,can someone post the link to the 
6215
6216media briefings. johann said yesterday they were online but i can't 
6217
6218find them on the one profession microsite. i need them urgently.
621910/01/2016, 16:37 - K Mohan: one go kevin o'kane's junior friends has 
6220
6221contacted me and i need to sort something out (to give a sense of the 
6222
6223urgency)
622410/01/2016, 16:38 - A Borbora: http://m.bma.org.uk/working-for-
6225
6226change/junior-and-consultant-contract/junior-doctor-contract-
6227
6228negotiations-home/junior-doctors-briefings-january-2016
622910/01/2016, 16:39 - K Mohan: ah thanks. (not sure why i thought they 
6230
6231were on the microsite).
623210/01/2016, 16:39 - J Malawana: Have emailed them to you
623310/01/2016, 16:40 - K Mohan: thanks!
623410/01/2016, 16:48 - K Mohan: good for petra, they have taken down her 
6235
6236photos!
623710/01/2016, 16:48 - D Rouse: How?
623810/01/2016, 16:48 - D Rouse: What did you do
623910/01/2016, 16:49 - K Mohan: she rang them up.
624010/01/2016, 16:49 - H Carter: Excellent
624110/01/2016, 16:49 - K Mohan: Hi All,
6242
6243just called the daily mail and spoke to the guy behind the article. He 
6244
6245swiftly took photos of me down as I suggested it was not a public 
6246
6247property but photos belonged to me.
6248
6249I am sure he will do the same with the rest of you guys pictured.
6250
6251Petra
625210/01/2016, 16:51 - D Rouse: That takes guts
625310/01/2016, 17:08 - D Tooth: Well done Petra
625410/01/2016, 17:12 - D Rouse: Wonder what's next
625510/01/2016, 17:14 - K Mohan: this is  would seem 
6256
6257https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/publish-a-full-apology-to-the-
6258
6259bma-junior-doctors-committee-on-the-front-page-of-the-sun?
6260
6261source=facebook-share-button&time=1452444942
626210/01/2016, 17:15 - K Mohan: although 12 people have signed it so far 
6263
6264so it may take decades for your "apology"
626510/01/2016, 17:38 - J Malawana: Lol
626610/01/2016, 17:51 - A Borbora: I'm more likely to be on page 3 than 
6267
6268they are to print such an apology
626910/01/2016, 17:58 - D Rouse: Aaron id love to see you on page three
627010/01/2016, 17:59 - A Borbora: ????
627110/01/2016, 18:02 - C Castles: No offence Aaron, but I wouldn't
627210/01/2016, 18:03 - A Borbora: How rude! David is a man of taste. No 
6273
6274wonder they don't like you in the Pullman, Conan
627510/01/2016, 18:03 - A Borbora: Some guy who owns a chain of hotels is 
6276
6277offering free refreshments to some Mersey pickets. His son is a junior. 
6278
6279Take that daily mail!
628010/01/2016, 18:05 - C Castles: Perhaps I dont do enough topless 
6281
6282modeling in pullman lobby
628310/01/2016, 18:07 - A Collier Voluptuous Aaron 28 from Liverpool feels 
6284
6285junior doctors get a hard time. His vitals are 36, 32, 36.
628610/01/2016, 18:11 - C Castles: 36 32 36 seems a little.....generous
628710/01/2016, 18:20 - L J Davis: So, to clarify, the copyright on photos 
6288
6289probably doesn't actually belong to Facebook... And we could get very 
6290
6291proactive with the ipso... Interesting.
629210/01/2016, 18:25 - L J Davis: It's only you & Stuart left on the mail 
6293
6294now rousey... He seems to be enjoying the notoriety!
629510/01/2016, 18:26 - D Rouse: I don't but I'm away
629610/01/2016, 18:26 - D Rouse: And I dunno who to contact
629710/01/2016, 18:26 - D Rouse: Or what to say
629810/01/2016, 18:31 - D Rouse: I'm bloody not enjoying it ????????
629910/01/2016, 18:32 - L J Davis: Oh david! ??????
630010/01/2016, 18:33 - L J Davis: ??????
630110/01/2016, 18:33 - C Castles: You could ask Petra and Daniel - they 
6302
6303both seemed to have phoned the "journalist "
630410/01/2016, 18:57 - D Rouse: I've contacted the media office
630510/01/2016, 19:00 - K Mohan: As awful as it is -  i really don't think 
6306
6307you should respond in any way as in get a rebuttal letter printed. Of 
6308
6309course it is not up to me, but I cannot see how that could possibly 
6310
6311help and I can see about a dozen ways it could make it worse.
631210/01/2016, 19:02 - K Mohan: Of course you'll all have mine, and i'm 
6313
6314sure everyone's support whatever you decide to do but I just wanted to 
6315
6316put it out there. I think you all need to protect yourselves and the 
6317
6318only way is sadly to not to respond.
631910/01/2016, 19:03 - D Rouse: I've asked them to do
632010/01/2016, 19:03 - D Rouse: What Petra has done
632110/01/2016, 19:03 - D Rouse: On mine behalf but there's little they say 
6322
6323they can do
632410/01/2016, 19:04 - D Rouse: I am otherwise guna let it go and see what 
6325
6326bile they pour on me come Tuesday
632710/01/2016, 19:21 - K Mohan: Yannis you're like a soothsayer or "Mystic 
6328
6329Yannis" or something... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35275918
633010/01/2016, 19:24 - B Roberts: Never heard her complain about Christmas 
6331
6332Day cover before...
633310/01/2016, 19:25 - K Mohan: Apparently it was front page of the sunday 
6334
6335times this morning. 
6336
6337http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1654843.ece
633810/01/2016, 19:26 - K Mohan: sorry do not link it before reading
633910/01/2016, 19:26 - L J Davis: Does anyone have a handle on m&m data 
6340
6341for 'routine' surgery performed overnight? I know lots was phased out 
6342
6343in the mid1990s-2000s. Confidential enquiries/cepods?
634410/01/2016, 19:26 - K Mohan: http://www.donotlink.com/hu6b
634510/01/2016, 19:27 - A Borbora: I'm not sure there was ever much truly 
6346
6347elective surgery done at night. They used to do things like #nof and 
6348
6349laparotomies etc
635010/01/2016, 19:27 - A Borbora: Which was the focus of NCEPOD
635110/01/2016, 19:29 - L J Davis: Wasn't the evidence that outcomes were 
6352
6353less good; in part just because it's less safe to operate at night?
635410/01/2016, 19:29 - A Borbora: Yes but you can't compare directly 
6355
6356because that was pre-EWTD so the teams were very fatigued.
635710/01/2016, 19:30 - L J Davis: Hmmm. But not pre-new deal?
635810/01/2016, 19:30 - L J Davis: Just pondering
635910/01/2016, 19:31 - L J Davis: Is there any evidence base for avoiding 
6360
6361elective care 24/7
636210/01/2016, 19:32 - A Borbora: If there is it's very tenuous. There's 
6363
6364no reason why it can't be done with proper staffing I don't think
636510/01/2016, 19:32 - L J Davis: Because some ppl see that as a 
6366
6367'solution' to NHS crises; it'd be good if we could share concrete 
6368
6369concerns with public
637010/01/2016, 19:33 - A Borbora: In the private sector there is elective 
6371
6372work in the evenings and weekends. 
6373It would be a solution if properly resourced. But there's no chance of 
6374
6375that at the moment
637610/01/2016, 19:33 - L J Davis: I wonder if there is anything on 
6377
6378functioning & circadian rhythms...?
637910/01/2016, 19:34 - A Borbora: There's loads on that but again it can 
6380
6381be mitigated with proper staffing to allow rest.
638210/01/2016, 19:35 - L J Davis: Nope; I meant that can't be mitigated 
6383
6384with rest, etc...
638510/01/2016, 19:37 - L J Davis: Just that it would make sense that 
6386
6387judgement & function might dip as you head later into the evening. Are 
6388
6389surgical outcomes at 10am the same as at 10pm (or 9.45!)?
639010/01/2016, 19:40 - A Borbora: I'm not aware of any evidence on that 
6391
6392but haven't looked. Most work on fatigue comes from transport where 
6393
6394people can and do work 24/7 but with appropriate rest. 
6395Then again all that Hunt is proposing, at most, is a three session day 
6396
6397and saturday working which is what any private hospital does.
639810/01/2016, 19:51 - D Rouse: Love the new mystic Yannis
639910/01/2016, 20:15 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
640010/01/2016, 20:18 - K Mohan: Letter from St Thomas consultants to their 
6401
6402juniors. 3 more pages of signatories but i'll save you the data of 
6403
6404sending them through. :)
640510/01/2016, 20:25 - L J Davis: I guess the difference is that private 
6406
6407hospitals have a smaller workforce (generally); they don't tend to have 
6408
6409acutely unwell (so different caseload); and they set their own tcs. 
6410
6411Moving to a model like that would require a massive sea-change for the 
6412
6413NHS. And change how 100's thousands work...
641410/01/2016, 20:26 - L J Davis: I'm not sure one can generalise across 
6415
6416from private to NHS in the UK.
641710/01/2016, 20:28 - L J Davis: (& before anyone has a go, I'm quite 
6418
6419ambivalent about private practice and I think it has its place in the 
6420
6421UK; just not providing/replacing NHS services) ??
642210/01/2016, 20:29 - L J Davis: But back to my point. Longer hours = 
6423
6424unsafe. But have we looked for any other evidence of why new contract 
6425
6426might be unsafe? Sounds as if we might not have done...
642710/01/2016, 20:52 - B Roberts: What about those studies on fatigue and 
6428
6429cognitive impairment? Night shifts as bad as alcohol? Is that what you 
6430
6431were after?
643210/01/2016, 20:53 - B Roberts: @Kitty - nice letter.
643310/01/2016, 20:53 - A Borbora: We've got those but they don't really do 
6434
6435the job. They are about the need for safe working limits
643610/01/2016, 20:54 - A Borbora: The negs team/me produced a whole loada 
6437
6438evidence for use with the other side
643910/01/2016, 20:54 - A Borbora: Will share with exec if anyone wants it
644010/01/2016, 21:05 - L J Davis: Yes please :)
644110/01/2016, 21:05 - A Borbora: Will do it later/tomorrow
644210/01/2016, 21:14 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
644310/01/2016, 21:16 - A Sami: Very nice!
644410/01/2016, 21:18 - A Borbora: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-
6445
644635277441?SThisFB
644710/01/2016, 21:30 - K Mohan: great work melody!
644810/01/2016, 21:32 - M Redman: Thanks lol ??
6449
6450'I'm not just a doctor, I'm one of the #fannis"
645110/01/2016, 21:33 - K Mohan: almost a whole day without hearing about 
6452
6453#fannis...
645410/01/2016, 21:34 - A Sami: I am going to ask a question that I might 
6455
6456regret asking. So, I pologise!  
6457
6458How do you pronounce #fannis? Is it like Yannis or .....
645910/01/2016, 21:35 - A Collins: Nice melo!
646010/01/2016, 21:36 - C Castles: You pronounce it whatever way you like..
646110/01/2016, 21:36 - K Mohan: you have to pronounce it with a "Melody 
6462
6463accent"...
646410/01/2016, 21:36 - A Sami: ??
646510/01/2016, 21:36 - D Rouse: Eeeee baaa gym fan-is
646610/01/2016, 21:37 - D Rouse: Sorry melody glass houses and stones
646710/01/2016, 21:38 - C Castles: I'm a bit concerned about this planned 
6468
6469letter to the guardian
647010/01/2016, 21:39 - K Mohan: i think david just had a stroke.
647110/01/2016, 21:39 - D Rouse: Not sure it's going ahead is it
647210/01/2016, 21:39 - D Rouse: Kitty wouldn't surprise me if I do
647310/01/2016, 21:40 - K Mohan: yeah - i'm worried about it too. have you 
6474
6475seen the comments on the list server recently, david.
647610/01/2016, 21:40 - C Castles: Seems to be, from what's being said on 
6477
6478listserver anyway
647910/01/2016, 21:40 - D Rouse: Nope
648010/01/2016, 21:40 - D Rouse: I will look
648110/01/2016, 21:41 - C Castles: Is going to look like the involved docs 
6482
6483running straight to the guardian to cry about the mean conservative 
6484
6485press
648610/01/2016, 21:42 - C Castles: And it'll likely just perpetuate the 
6487
6488issue
648910/01/2016, 21:42 - K Mohan: i just think the best way to protect 
6490
6491themselves and stop this escalating is to let it go.
649210/01/2016, 21:42 - C Castles: Agree
649310/01/2016, 21:43 - A Yassaee: Anyone who reads the guardian is 
6494
6495probably on our side. I don't see what benefit this brings apart from 
6496
6497feeling empowered by the situation?
649810/01/2016, 21:43 - K Mohan: the other issue is that it's going to be 
6499
6500really hard to get any response "of the right tone" to make them not 
6501
6502sound elitist or like their a bit arrogant.
650310/01/2016, 21:43 - C Castles: Andrew dearden was right, we currently 
6504
6505look more grown up by simply mocking the situation
650610/01/2016, 21:43 - K Mohan: (to the readership) not to us. we know 
6507
6508them
650910/01/2016, 21:44 - K Mohan: they're not their.
651010/01/2016, 21:46 - D Rouse: Have replied to list server
651110/01/2016, 21:47 - D Rouse: Suggested fine to write it but we should 
6512
6513seek senior thoughts before sending anything
651410/01/2016, 23:40 - K Mohan: i don't really understand the point of 
6515
6516"jeremy's punt"
651710/01/2016, 23:41 - K Mohan: did they actually move that red structure 
6518
6519around all day?
652010/01/2016, 23:41 - C Castles: Haha
652111/01/2016, 07:24 - B Roberts: The Today programme are insinuating that 
6522
6523patients will be turned away from hospitals tomorrow if they do not 
6524
6525need urgent care and will not be allowed to cross picket lines. So 
6526
6527irresponsible!
652811/01/2016, 07:26 - J Malawana: What time was that? Just now?
652911/01/2016, 07:28 - D Rouse: What!?!??
653011/01/2016, 07:28 - A Collins: They're what? How? What have they said?
653111/01/2016, 07:28 - D Rouse: Based on what source
653211/01/2016, 07:35 - D Rouse: It's what happened on Xmas day
653311/01/2016, 07:35 - D Rouse: I have never turned a patient away on Xmas 
6534
6535day
653611/01/2016, 07:35 - D Rouse: Grrr
653711/01/2016, 07:38 - A Collins: Might have been one of the AMU cons 
6538
6539covering a&e who turned someone away on Xmas? ;)
654011/01/2016, 07:55 - A Borbora: Didn't hear it but they could have meant 
6541
6542a few different things 
6543A patient who turns up for a cancelled clinic will be turned away 
6544If a&e is very busy then maybe they'll have to redirect some people to 
6545
6546a more appropriate setting. I know it's been a while since I worked in 
6547
6548a&e but this used to happen all the time, at the behest of a&e 
6549
6550consultants
655111/01/2016, 08:00 - E McCourt: Hull turneth nobody away...
655211/01/2016, 08:01 - D Rouse: Collins. Shush lol
655311/01/2016, 08:03 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
655411/01/2016, 09:23 - A Sami: Hull welcomes every patient with wide open 
6555
6556arms.
6557
6558We are the victims of our own success, Ellen!
655911/01/2016, 10:14 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
656011/01/2016, 10:47 - A Collins: Labourites
656111/01/2016, 10:59 - A Borbora: The Mayor of Liverpool supports us
656211/01/2016, 15:45 - H Carter: Very bizarre but my dad has been getting 
6563
6564calls from journalists asking for a comment on IA. I assume I talk to 
6565
6566the media office? He's been ignoring them for the time being.
656711/01/2016, 15:45 - H Carter: I don't know how they managed to get his 
6568
6569number.
657011/01/2016, 15:45 - H Carter: But they're leaving him regular 
6571
6572voicemails
657311/01/2016, 15:55 - J Malawana: Press office says don't answer.
657411/01/2016, 15:55 - J Malawana: Who is your dad is their question
657511/01/2016, 15:56 - A Borbora: The milkman?
657611/01/2016, 16:20 - K Mohan: I just got rung by the Sunday mirror just 
6577
6578now saying that Ellie has given them my number. Johann can you check if 
6579
6580she has?
658111/01/2016, 17:26 - H Carter: One of the calls was from a South African 
6582
6583radio station. He knew not to answer but I don't understand how they 
6584
6585got hold of his number.
658611/01/2016, 17:27 - A Collins: Just seen the HEE response. Feckers.
658711/01/2016, 17:29 - L J Davis: Got a good question; where the IA falls 
6588
6589into a qualifying period for maternity leave, the impact of a loss of 
6590
6591days pay is huge across the following year (even worse if they are ltft 
6592
6593already!)... Suggestion of trying to swap into an on call day; 
6594
6595otherwise have suggested that this should be considered exceptional 
6596
6597circumstances & individuals may want to work that day.
6598Not ideal; but hard to think of a better solution...
659911/01/2016, 17:33 - L J Davis: Also; where has declared code black & 
6600
6601cancelled IA?
660211/01/2016, 17:34 - D Rouse: Somewhere called code black
660311/01/2016, 17:35 - L J Davis: Several places according to fbgod
660411/01/2016, 17:41 - M Redman: Nice email Johann
660511/01/2016, 18:21 - K Mohan: True colours of HEE exposed
660611/01/2016, 18:42 - D Rouse: They are absolute
660711/01/2016, 18:42 - D Rouse: ...
660811/01/2016, 18:42 - D Rouse: Select four letter word of choice
660911/01/2016, 18:44 - D Rouse: Dr Dr. Kitty Mohan BSc (Hons) MBBS MRCP 
6610
6611MSc MFPH PhD!
6612
6613Ps well the fuck done can't believe you did a PhD whilst being chair 
6614
6615massive credit to you!
6616
6617Do you think we should expose HEEs response
661811/01/2016, 18:44 - D Rouse: Ps makes my
661911/01/2016, 18:44 - D Rouse: MB, ChB, MRCEM, PGCert pale into 
6620
6621significance
662211/01/2016, 18:44 - A Borbora: Anyone see northwest tonight?
662311/01/2016, 18:44 - D Rouse: Insignificance
662411/01/2016, 18:45 - D Rouse: Rather
662511/01/2016, 18:45 - D Rouse: Can we all say congrats to PhD kitty
662611/01/2016, 18:45 - D Rouse: !!!
662711/01/2016, 18:48 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Good stuff kitty the double-
6628
6629doctor!
663011/01/2016, 19:04 - L J Davis: Surprisingly positive story on points 
6631
6632west here... Mabel looking very cute. Maybe that's why they were nice. 
6633
6634Plus reporter told me they had taken IA over loss of pay increments 
6635
663620yrs ago. Replaced with performance related pay; he's only seen on pay 
6637
6638increase based on that since...
663911/01/2016, 19:20 - L J Davis: What was on northwest Aaron?
664011/01/2016, 19:24 - C Sheridan: Best of luck everyone tomorrow and lets 
6641
6642see where it gets us. I'll be in work North of the border but will be 
6643
6644fully badged, stickered and lanyarded (if that is a word!) in support! 
6645
6646And very well done Kitty, was today completion day? Planning an IA 
6647
6648themed graduation party perhaps?
664911/01/2016, 19:30 - A Borbora: Thanks, Chris!
665011/01/2016, 20:13 - B Roberts: Late back to the party, the Today thing 
6651
6652was Nick Robinson simply stating that patients would be turned away 
6653
6654with no qualifying statements. I then drove off to my shithole surgery 
6655
6656with no mobile signal...
665711/01/2016, 20:15 - A Collier Can I just check when the next ACAS talks 
6658
6659are pencilled in for? And did we have any talks at ACAS today?
666011/01/2016, 20:19 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Guys did i miss it or was there a 
6661
6662general motivatory email put out today or not?
666311/01/2016, 20:19 - A Yassaee: Granted this is based on a few 
6664
6665conversations with non medics, but am I the only one who thinks that 
6666
6667RMT coming to our pickets isn't necessarily the public message we would 
6668
6669want to be sending?
667011/01/2016, 20:20 - A Yassaee: Yannis - i got one
667111/01/2016, 20:20 - A Collier In response to Yannis, yes there was an 
6672
6673email, it was entitle Strength in Unity or something similar.
6674
6675In response to Arrash, I agree.
667611/01/2016, 20:22 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Damn it looks like i didnt get 
6677
6678it! At least it went out tho. Good stuff!
667911/01/2016, 20:26 - J Malawana: Thursday. And none today.
668011/01/2016, 20:27 - A Collier Thank you.
668111/01/2016, 20:27 - J Malawana: By mutual agreement
668211/01/2016, 20:27 - J Malawana: It wasn't just us.
668311/01/2016, 20:27 - A Collier Has "Big Dave" directly contacted you 
6684
6685today?
668611/01/2016, 20:29 - J Malawana: Prentis?
668711/01/2016, 20:30 - A Borbora: RMT? Wasn't aware of anything with them. 
6688
6689We've got the Liverpool socialist singers
669011/01/2016, 20:31 - A Collier Cameron!
669111/01/2016, 20:31 - A Collier I've just seen him on the news "pleading 
6692
6693with us"
669411/01/2016, 20:42 - K Mohan: "pleading with us". :)
669511/01/2016, 20:44 - L Boyle: I listened to Today for about an hour this 
6696
6697morn - RIP David Bowie; this maybe sounds awful but his passing 
6698
6699diverted a lot of the media attention away from us. Please take that in 
6700
6701the way intended - not delighted he's gone, just the opposite!
670211/01/2016, 20:45 - L Boyle: I'm digging myself in here. They covered 
6703
6704his life & contribution to music really well. Tomorrow will get ugly on 
6705
6706Today I'm sure
670711/01/2016, 20:45 - B Roberts: Though someone accidentally reported 
6708
6709that David Cameron was dead...
671011/01/2016, 20:45 - L Boyle: Lol
671111/01/2016, 20:46 - K Mohan: christ - i've had 5 missed calls from the 
6712
6713today programme, 4 missed calls from good morning britain, the sunday 
6714
6715mirror chap after me. and hugh pym has sent me two emails. all whilst i 
6716
6717was having dinner with zoe!
671811/01/2016, 20:46 - L Boyle: Also, Kitty's groundbreaking PhD setting a 
6719
6720new Guinness world record for both longest trainee & most postnominals 
6721
6722ever diverted the bad press too
672311/01/2016, 20:46 - K Mohan: (and my phone died)
672411/01/2016, 20:46 - L Boyle: That's why they wanted to speak to you 
6725
6726Kitty!! Not the IA
672711/01/2016, 20:46 - L Boyle: Congratulations! Fantastic achievement, 
6728
6729enjoy it X
673011/01/2016, 20:48 - K Mohan: thanks luke and david (and others) - 
6731
6732that's kind. yes, the longest ever phd comes to an end. although as 
6733
6734johann is registered at 18% part time he's going to take way longer 
6735
6736than me!
673711/01/2016, 20:50 - D Tooth: Congrats kitty. Apologies only just got 
6738
6739out of work. Are we still on for tomorrow? Some worrying FB posts about 
6740
6741trusts calling black alert
674211/01/2016, 20:50 - K Mohan: back to business - what did cameron say?
674311/01/2016, 21:01 - A Collier <Media omitted>
674411/01/2016, 21:01 - A Collier Page three model and part time doctor on 
6745
6746North West Tonight
674711/01/2016, 21:01 - ?L Elliott: Aw int he lovely
674811/01/2016, 21:23 - K Mohan: aw
674911/01/2016, 21:27 - M Redman: Awww
675011/01/2016, 21:28 - M Redman: congrats kitty ?? i also saw your pic in 
6751
6752guardian earlier...
6753
6754Aye... What did Davey bbz say?
675511/01/2016, 21:29 - K Mohan: me in the guardian? why??
675611/01/2016, 21:29 - K Mohan: and more importantly, which pic? ;)
675711/01/2016, 21:32 - M Redman: Argh... I can't find it now... But it was 
6758
6759you in a crowd.
676011/01/2016, 21:32 - K Mohan: uh-oh. maybe it was from saturday
676111/01/2016, 21:33 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
676211/01/2016, 21:33 - M Redman: This you.
676311/01/2016, 21:33 - K Mohan: ha. hilarious.
676411/01/2016, 21:34 - M Redman: It was meant to be funny but it took too 
6765
6766long and I couldn't find the picture... ??
676711/01/2016, 21:34 - K Mohan: yes that me is really famous. the "other 
6768
6769me" managed to negotiate away from a 4am pick-up to do good morning 
6770
6771britain tomorrow
677211/01/2016, 21:36 - M Redman: What time you on
677311/01/2016, 21:36 - J Malawana: Exec, here are the key messages for 
6774
6775tomorrow.
677611/01/2016, 21:36 - J Malawana: Junior doctor contract – key messages
6777
6778 
6779Soundbite
6780 
6781We are really disappointed it has come to this.
6782
6783No doctor wants to take industrial action and we've tried very hard to 
6784
6785avoid it.
6786
6787The government is insisting on plans that are bad for patient care, bad 
6788
6789for junior doctors and bad for the NHS in the long term.
6790
6791We're sorry about the disruption this will cause patients but we feel 
6792
6793the government has left us no choice.
6794
6795Industrial action
6796• No junior doctor takes the decision to strike lightly and we deeply 
6797
6798regret the disruption that it will cause patients, but the government’s 
6799
6800proposals are bad for patient care as well as junior doctors, which is 
6801
6802why we are taking this stand
6803 
6804• Despite weeks of talks we haven’t been able to make enough progress 
6805
6806to call off industrial action, our door remains open to talks, but the 
6807
6808government must address our concerns
6809 
6810But the government said talks had reached agreement on 15 out of 16 key 
6811
6812areas
6813• That is simply not true and a misrepresentation of the talks – the 
6814
6815government has failed to fully address junior doctors’ concerns over 
6816
6817safe working and recognition of unsocial hours
6818 
6819• In a nutshell, the government’s proposals do not go far enough to 
6820
6821prevent junior doctors working unsafe hours and would leave those 
6822
6823working the most unsocial hours worse off, affecting doctors in our 
6824
6825A&Es and other areas of medicine that are already struggling to recruit 
6826
6827and retain staff
6828 
6829This dispute is just about pay
6830• That’s simply not true, this has always been about a contract that 
6831
6832delivers safe working patterns and values the vital work junior doctors 
6833
6834do
6835 
6836• In a nutshell, the government’s proposals do not go far enough to 
6837
6838prevent junior doctors from working unsafe hours and would leave those 
6839
6840working the most unsocial hours worst off, affecting doctors in our 
6841
6842A&Es and other areas of medicine that are already struggling to recruit 
6843
6844and retain staff
6845 
6846What do the BMA want?
6847We want a contract that is good for patients, fair for junior doctors 
6848
6849and good for the NHS. The government is trying to introduce an unsafe 
6850
6851and unfair contract that would compromise patient safety and devalue 
6852
6853junior doctors.
6854 
6855The BMA wants a junior doctor contract that is:
6856• Good for patients – protects patient safety, delivers high quality 
6857
6858care
6859• Fair for doctors – protects safe working hours, recognises long, 
6860
6861unsocial hours, values training and development
6862• Good for the NHS – prevents burnout, addresses recruitment and 
6863
6864retention issues, ensures we have enough doctors to meet rising demand
6865 
6866Why are you taking this action?
6867• The government is trying to impose an unsafe and unfair contract that 
6868
6869will be bad for patients, junior doctors and the NHS
6870• Junior doctors voted overwhelmingly in favour of taking industrial 
6871
6872action with 98% of those who voted calling for strike action – this is 
6873
6874because the government’s proposals would be bad for patients as well as 
6875
6876junior doctors
6877• Not a decision junior doctors take lightly – no junior doctors wants 
6878
6879to have to go on strike but we have been left with no option
6880 
6881Key concerns are:
6882• Proposals that remove vital safeguards on safe working
6883• Proposals that penalise junior doctors who do lots of evening and 
6884
6885weekend work
6886 
6887Talks
6888• Even with such a resounding mandate for industrial action, we were 
6889
6890keen to avert industrial action which is why the BMA offered 
6891
6892conciliatory talks – which the government initially rejected
6893• Our door remains open, we want to reach a negotiated agreement with 
6894
6895the government. But the government must address junior doctors’ 
6896
6897concerns
6898 
6899Patient disruption
6900• We deeply regret any disruption that it will cause for patients but 
6901
6902we believe the proposals would be bad for patient care in the long run, 
6903
6904which is why we are taking a stand
6905• Patients remain our first priority – other doctors and NHS staff will 
6906
6907continue to provide excellent care on the day
6908 
6909To move forward in this negotiation the government must provide:
6910• Contractual safeguards on safe working that protect patients and 
6911
6912junior doctors
6913• A fair system of pay that properly recognises unsocial hours
6914 
6915Patient safety
6916• One of the reasons we are taking action is because these proposals 
6917
6918would be bad for patient safety by removing vital safeguards that 
6919
6920penalise trusts if they overwork junior doctors
6921• We want contractual guarantees on safe working patterns that  protect 
6922
6923patient safety and prevent junior doctors working dangerously long 
6924
6925hours
6926 
6927Contract and weekend mortality
6928• Jeremy Hunt is trying to conflate seven-day services and the junior 
6929
6930doctor contract. Junior doctors already work around the clock, seven-
6931
6932days a week – we want our patients to have the best care, seven days a 
6933
6934week
6935• If Jeremy Hunt wants to increase doctor presence on the weekend then 
6936
6937he needs to explain where these doctors will come from
6938• Weekday services are already overstretch and understaffed – if you 
6939
6940want more junior doctors working at weekends without weekday services 
6941
6942being affected then, quite simply, you need more junior doctors
6943Difficult questions
6944
6945You are risking patients’ lives for your own greed
6946
6947• Simply not true
6948• Patients are doctors’ first priority – the government’s proposals 
6949
6950would be bad for patient care in the long run, which is why we are 
6951
6952taking this action
6953• Patients will continue to receive excellent care on the day from 
6954
6955other doctors and NHS staff
6956• We want to minimise disruption for patients which is why we have 
6957
6958given trusts adequate notice so they can plan ahead
6959All about pay – the government is stuffing your mouth with gold and 
6960
6961you’re still not happy
6962
6963• This is not – and never was – solely about pay
6964• This is about delivering a junior doctor contract that is safe and 
6965
6966fair
6967• But the government’s claims on pay are misleading, an increase in 
6968
6969basic pay would be more than outstripped by changes to pay for evenings 
6970
6971and weekends
6972Patients will die
6973
6974• Emergency care will continue to be provided
6975• Patients will continue to receive excellent care by senior doctors 
6976
6977and other NHS staff
6978Can you guarantee that no patient will die?
6979
6980• I can understand why people may be anxious but my message to anyone 
6981
6982listening is that if you need emergency care today, you will get it
6983• Senior doctors and other NHS staff will be in work to provide high 
6984
6985quality emergency care
6986• Patients are doctors’ first priority – this contract will be bad for 
6987
6988patient care in the long run, which is why we are taking this action
6989You’ve timed this for maximum disruption – when winter pressures are at 
6990
6991their worst
6992
6993• Not true, this is the result of the government’s plans to impose an 
6994
6995unsafe and unfair contract – the timing is due to their action, not 
6996
6997ours
6998• We have spent recent weeks and months trying to reach a solution
6999• The government have failed to address our concerns over safe working 
7000
7001patterns and we have been left with no option
7002This strike is politically motivated
7003
7004• Let me be absolutely clear - the suggestion this dispute is 
7005
7006politically motivated is utterly untrue
7007• This is about changes to the junior doctor contract that are unsafe 
7008
7009and unfair which is why 98% of junior doctors who voted in a ballot 
7010
7011supported taking this action
7012Doctors just don’t want to work weekends
7013
7014• Doctors already work around the clock, seven days a week – we want 
7015
7016our patients to have the best possible care, seven days a week
7017• If Jeremy Hunt wants more doctors working evenings and weekends then 
7018
7019he needs to say where they will come from and how he will ensure there 
7020
7021are enough nurses and support staff to deliver more seven-day care
7022BMA refusing to talk – refusing to engage, door opened since June
7023
7024• This is simply not true – we were the ones who proposed conciliation 
7025
7026talks, which the government originally refused
7027• We’ve been clear all along that we want to reach a negotiated deal
7028• But the government is refusing to address our concerns safety and 
7029
7030fairness and we have been left with no option but to take this action
7031BMA responsible for perpetuating lots of misinformation
7032• Simply not true – tens of thousands of junior doctors have made up 
7033
7034their own mind based on the facts
7035• That’s why 98% who voted in a BMA ballot last year supported taking 
7036
7037this action
703811/01/2016, 21:42 - D Rouse: Did Marie Estelle write that
703911/01/2016, 21:43 - C Castles: Was about to ask the same as David
704011/01/2016, 21:43 - D Rouse: Hahaha
704111/01/2016, 21:56 - J Malawana: No. That's what our press office 
7042
7043produces. They are very good. I know people have this thing about our 
7044
7045Comms but actually it's not the staff. It's the strategy that is 
7046
7047fundamentally flawed. And that's because of the political leadership. 
7048
7049The organisation is very aware that if JDC are not intimidated by a 
7050
7051government it's certainly not going to be intimidated by the rest of 
7052
7053the BMA being silly. It's actually funny. We have some very interesting 
7054
7055points this last few days when senior BMA folk trying to electioneer 
7056
7057off the back of the strike had to be told by me they were not allowed 
7058
7059to speak in public and do damage to our campaign. And they seemed 
7060
7061genuinely scared and completely backed down. I am not sure I am that 
7062
7063scary. Anyway hopefully the press office have been in touch with as 
7064
7065many of you as possible to book you in.
706611/01/2016, 21:58 - K Mohan: you are terrifying.
706711/01/2016, 21:58 - K Mohan: i think the briefing is great btw
706811/01/2016, 21:58 - J Malawana: I have Tom Dolphin doing the daily 
7069
7070politics as we needed to risk assess the question types and actually 
7071
7072it's better given the questioning its a consultant defending juniors 
7073
7074right to strike than its a junior doing it.
707511/01/2016, 21:58 - K Mohan: has he got his voice back then
707611/01/2016, 21:59 - J Malawana: Mark will do today in the morning
707711/01/2016, 21:59 - J Malawana: He was my secretary today. Such a 
7078
7079sweetie pie.
708011/01/2016, 21:59 - J Malawana: Came in and wrote stuff for me and did 
7081
7082my diary etc.
708311/01/2016, 21:59 - K Mohan: today are broadcasting from st thomas as 
7084
7085well
708611/01/2016, 22:00 - J Malawana: Whilst Bea and Jeeves did all the 
7087
7088random obscure radio station pre Recs.
708911/01/2016, 22:00 - K Mohan: and you are going skiing?
709011/01/2016, 22:01 - K Mohan: or going on hol tonight?
709111/01/2016, 22:03 - K Mohan: can i ask what's happening in watford with 
7092
7093the "two shos on every ward thing"
709411/01/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: I called the medical director. We 
7095
7096argued.
709711/01/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: I called the GMC
709811/01/2016, 22:06 - A Collins: :o
709911/01/2016, 22:06 - A Collins: Strong. See you're scary
710011/01/2016, 22:06 - K Mohan: ok thanks. i have south thames trainees 
7101
7102bugging me about it.
710311/01/2016, 22:23 - A Collier Just to complete our media clean sweep 
7104
7105I'm doing BBC Breakfast at around 8.
710611/01/2016, 22:24 - D Rouse: So what did the argument conclude
710711/01/2016, 22:24 - A Collins: More entertainingly what happened when  
7108
7109you phoned the gmc?
711011/01/2016, 22:25 - K Mohan: oooh are you in the studio,, andrew
711111/01/2016, 22:25 - A Borbora: I'm doing bbc northwest from a picket
711211/01/2016, 22:26 - H Carter: Presumably the national interviews will 
7113
7114be up against a government spokesperson?
711511/01/2016, 22:26 - A Borbora: Plus radio merseyside 
7116Lottie is doing radio merseyside and radio city 
7117I'm also on Capital tomorrow
711811/01/2016, 22:26 - J Malawana: Just called Niall. Last time Niall and 
7119
7120I talked we were not friends as i basically had the BMA injunct him.
712111/01/2016, 22:26 - J Malawana: But he was ok.
712211/01/2016, 22:26 - J Malawana: Denied all personal knowledge of 
7123
7124Watford n
712511/01/2016, 22:27 - K Mohan: one of our juniors is doing heart fm. :)
712611/01/2016, 22:27 - K Mohan: channel 4 and the "international business 
7127
7128times" are also coming to st thomas' - the latter is completely due to 
7129
7130jeeves
713111/01/2016, 22:28 - J Malawana: The medical director at Watford is 
7132
7133rowing back apparently.
713411/01/2016, 22:28 - J Malawana: Backing off completely.
713511/01/2016, 22:29 - A Collier Yep I'm in the studio with Bill and 
7136
7137Louise :-)
713811/01/2016, 22:30 - K Mohan: my mission for tomorrow is not to get on 
7139
7140tv or the radio at all. but hugh pym appears to be taking that as a 
7141
7142challenge...
714311/01/2016, 22:30 - D Rouse: Hugh a big kitdrew fan
714411/01/2016, 22:30 - K Mohan: he's very tall.
714511/01/2016, 22:30 - A Collier I'm fortunate in that he doesn't have my 
7146
7147number
714811/01/2016, 22:31 - K Mohan: it's ok. i hear you're becoming the drive 
7149
7150time presenter for lbc, andrew. :)
715111/01/2016, 22:32 - A Collier Yes Nick Clegg, Boris and now me :-P
715211/01/2016, 22:32 - B Roberts: Good luck with everything tomorrow, 
7153
7154comrades. I will be in similar costume to Dr Sheridan and I'm pretty 
7155
7156convinced that "lanyarded" is a proper word and not a neologism.
715711/01/2016, 22:43 - L Boyle: We are all set in SE Scotland - every 
7158
7159hospital I think will have a rep dishing out materials to show 
7160
7161solidarity
716211/01/2016, 22:44 - L Boyle: We have 600 stickers for the Royal 
7163
7164Infirmary in Edinburgh between us we'll have what looks like new 
7165
7166wallpaper
716711/01/2016, 22:45 - H Carter: I would listen to that show, Andrew
716811/01/2016, 22:45 - L J Davis: Anyone picking up on fbgod about text 
7169
7170msgs being sent out saying strike called off, etc?
717111/01/2016, 22:46 - H Carter: Eh?
717211/01/2016, 22:46 - L J Davis: And referring individuals to gmc?
717311/01/2016, 22:46 - J Malawana: Here is the guardian video I was 
7174
7175telling you guys about. 
7176
7177http://www.theguardian.com/society/video/2016/jan/11/why-are-junior-
7178
7179doctors-going-on-strike-video-explainer?CMP=share_btn_tw
718011/01/2016, 22:46 - J Malawana: The Watford md might be backing off.
718111/01/2016, 22:46 - L J Davis: Just come up on fb
718211/01/2016, 22:47 - L Boyle: Collins is off tm but holding a uni event 
7183
7184- received a booty call now he's at my flat
718511/01/2016, 22:47 - L Boyle: People will talk after the VC steering 
7186
7187group
718811/01/2016, 22:50 - L J Davis: Steering group? When?
718911/01/2016, 22:53 - L J Davis: Oh, you mean yesterday!
719011/01/2016, 22:53 - L Boyle: Last wk
719111/01/2016, 22:54 - L J Davis: Yeah... Yesterday... Last week... A 
7192
7193while ago. I'm the not-time-Lord Dr ;)
719411/01/2016, 22:57 - D Rouse: Johann have Watford backed down
719511/01/2016, 22:57 - A Borbora: The barristers are working on it. Just 
7196
7197hold off on commenting for now.
719811/01/2016, 22:57 - L J Davis: Ok, ignore fbgod; someone winding up 
7199
7200their friend. Bloody Tim checking it & telling me... :)
720111/01/2016, 22:59 - L J Davis: News night about to run piece on IA
720211/01/2016, 23:00 - L J Davis: What do public think of junior Drs 
7203
7204strike?
720511/01/2016, 23:04 - L Boyle: <Media omitted>
720611/01/2016, 23:04 - L Boyle: Collins is running the show from my living 
7207
7208room
720911/01/2016, 23:04 - A Collins: Collins' belly is running the show from 
7210
7211the bottom of his shirt... ??
721211/01/2016, 23:07 - J Malawana: I think Watford will back down
721311/01/2016, 23:07 - J Malawana: But let's see tomorrow
721411/01/2016, 23:09 - K Mohan: Thanks Yoyo.
721512/01/2016, 00:52 - C Castles: Good luck today everyone. NIJDC fully 
7216
7217supports you, and hopes for a positive outcome
721812/01/2016, 01:39 - E McCourt: My contribution: 5 Live breakfast and 
7219
7220near enough all bbc regional breakfast radio.
722112/01/2016, 06:55 - E McCourt: <Media omitted>
722212/01/2016, 06:58 - A Sami: Lol
722312/01/2016, 07:00 - A Sami: Question
7224
7225Someone in A&E on a study leave today for a teaching. The teaching got 
7226
7227cancelled. 
7228
7229They are not on the rota for today. They were asked to come to A&E and 
7230
7231work despite being not needed numbers wise.
7232
7233She is facing a struggle. It might be too late this hour to sort out. 
7234
7235But I thought mentioning it (like the Watford thing)
7236
7237Ir is where Ian Wilson works
723812/01/2016, 07:01 - M Redman: Just think how badly Johann will have 
7239
7240slept and how much scarier his interviews will be :)
724112/01/2016, 07:01 - M Redman: He's kind of become my talismanawana....
724212/01/2016, 07:01 - M Redman: Someone from Yorkshire jdc just said that
724312/01/2016, 07:01 - A Sami: Good luck everyone. We are writing history 
7244
7245today. If you face a challenge, just remember why we are doing this!
724612/01/2016, 07:01 - E McCourt: Bahaha talismanawana
724712/01/2016, 07:01 - E McCourt: Love it
724812/01/2016, 07:03 - D Tooth: Well done Ellen!! And good luck to all 
7249
7250today particularly those with media roles xx
725112/01/2016, 07:06 - A Borbora: The real credit for today goes to the 
7252
7253hospital reps and BMA staff. They've put so much in to this, often with 
7254
7255no thanks.
725612/01/2016, 07:10 - K Mohan: Melo's making a bid to be yoyo's favourite 
7257
7258again. :)
7259
7260Agree Aaron. And some have been reps for just a few weeks and prob 
7261
7262wondering how the hell they ended up leading a picket line.
726312/01/2016, 07:16 - E McCourt: Because they're awesome.
726412/01/2016, 07:28 - K Mohan: Quite. It is in fact (excuse my language) 
7265
7266fucking freezing outside.,
726712/01/2016, 07:40 - ?L Elliott: Seriously the reps need all the thanks 
7268
7269in the world after this. And pin badges
727012/01/2016, 07:58 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
727112/01/2016, 07:59 - D Tooth: I am gonna be late for IA . Oil spill on 
7272
7273m11 closing 2 lanes
727412/01/2016, 07:59 - D Rouse: Good luck everyone
727512/01/2016, 08:13 - A Yassaee: It also turns out the above rat is a 
7276
7277costume
727812/01/2016, 08:13 - L J Davis: Nice
727912/01/2016, 08:13 - D Rouse: The sun have published a story from a 
7280
7281doctor
728212/01/2016, 08:14 - D Rouse: Saying we are acting illegally and any 
7283
7284doctor who leaves uk should pay back the money's it's taken to train 
7285
7286them
728712/01/2016, 08:14 - L J Davis: Is now a good time to mention I didn't 
7288
7289do the Hippocratic oath? Didn't do it at my med school...
729012/01/2016, 08:14 - D Rouse: Also
729112/01/2016, 08:15 - D Rouse: He claims to have access to MBMA documents
729212/01/2016, 08:15 - D Rouse: Dr Stanley does
729312/01/2016, 08:15 - L J Davis: The sun. Bastion of truth & fine 
7294
7295journalism
729612/01/2016, 08:17 - D Rouse: Indeed wonder if he does have documents 
7297
7298from JDC list server
729912/01/2016, 08:18 - D Rouse: States won't break confidentiality by  
7300
7301publishing them or name names you just have to believe him
730212/01/2016, 08:18 - K Mohan: we just did try today programme.
730312/01/2016, 08:19 - D Rouse: Huh?
730412/01/2016, 08:20 - D Rouse: Try what on there
730512/01/2016, 08:25 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
730612/01/2016, 08:26 - A Collins: Much love from North of the Border for 
7307
7308all of you. Good luck today.
730912/01/2016, 08:30 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
731012/01/2016, 08:31 - A Collins: :)
731112/01/2016, 08:37 - L J Davis: Drs interviewed live a pickets in 
7312
7313Harrogate & Exeter excellent
731412/01/2016, 08:38 - A Collins: Nick Clegg expressing somewhat guarded 
7315
7316support at 0825 on Breakfast
731712/01/2016, 08:38 - H Carter: Johann
731812/01/2016, 08:38 - L J Davis: Who is doing Victoria Derbyshire?
731912/01/2016, 08:38 - D Rouse: Not sure any one will care what nick clegg 
7320
7321says
732212/01/2016, 08:39 - H Carter: Is that fantastic media briefing you put 
7323
7324up on here available in doc form?
732512/01/2016, 08:39 - K Mohan: Sarah Hallett and Sabrina Dwyer at 10am 
7326
7327Dagan at 9.
732812/01/2016, 08:39 - L J Davis: (I thought you answered my question 
7329
7330before I asked it, Harry!)
733112/01/2016, 08:39 - D Rouse: Apart from nick clef
733212/01/2016, 08:39 - A Collins: I can put it in an email easily Harry?
733312/01/2016, 08:39 - H Carter: Please, Adam!
733412/01/2016, 08:40 - A Collins: Sent to Bristol account
733512/01/2016, 08:59 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
733612/01/2016, 08:59 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
733712/01/2016, 09:01 - H Carter: Thanks, Adam
733812/01/2016, 09:11 - D Rouse: Natalie Bennett
733912/01/2016, 09:11 - D Rouse: Thought she'd dropped off face of planet 
7340
7341since election
734212/01/2016, 09:12 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
734312/01/2016, 09:12 - C Bell: Some suit from our trust is remonstrating 
7344
7345with our picket
734612/01/2016, 09:15 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
734712/01/2016, 09:15 - D Rouse: What they saying Charlie get back to work
734812/01/2016, 09:16 - M Redman: Great work with the media all. Can't wait 
7349
7350to watch Collier on repeat late????
735112/01/2016, 09:16 - C Bell: No trying to argue that everyone 
7352
7353misunderstands the situation
735412/01/2016, 09:17 - D Rouse: So the one lone voice understands it 
7355
7356perfectly where almost 50K have got the wrong end of the stick
735712/01/2016, 09:22 - A Collins: Bless him. Offer him a cuppa and a sit 
7358
7359down. Obviously in need of an update.
736012/01/2016, 09:31 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
736112/01/2016, 09:33 - A Collier Awww
736212/01/2016, 09:33 - A Collier <Media omitted>
736312/01/2016, 09:33 - A Collier I love the state your giving the 
7364
7365reporter!
736612/01/2016, 09:35 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
736712/01/2016, 09:35 - D Tooth: <Media omitted>
736812/01/2016, 09:51 - C Bell: <Media omitted>
736912/01/2016, 09:51 - D Rouse: That isn't part of the national agreement 
7370
7371is it
737212/01/2016, 09:52 - C Bell: Certainly not
737312/01/2016, 09:52 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
737412/01/2016, 09:52 - C Bell: Rumours Addenbrooke's are planning it too
737512/01/2016, 09:52 - D Rouse: Have we informed BMA house
737612/01/2016, 09:52 - A Yassaee: <Media omitted>
737712/01/2016, 09:55 - C Bell: <Media omitted>
737812/01/2016, 09:58 - C Bell: Surely this isn't on
737912/01/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: I have emailed Ian Wilson
738012/01/2016, 09:59 - D Rouse: So they can begin to look into it
738112/01/2016, 10:01 - D Tooth: Johann can we have a picture with the 
7382
7383firefighters union and their flag
738412/01/2016, 10:16 - C Bell: Fucking BBC
738512/01/2016, 10:16 - C Bell: 
7386
7387http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/NEWS/11589037.UKIP_announces_MP_
7388
7389candidate/
739012/01/2016, 10:16 - C Bell: <Media omitted>
739112/01/2016, 10:17 - D Rouse: Yeah the sun beat them to it
739212/01/2016, 10:18 - C Bell: He's UKIP
739312/01/2016, 10:19 - D Rouse: The sun had him interviewed this just this 
7394
7395morning claiming we are all ppl
739612/01/2016, 10:19 - D Rouse: And he is privy to BMA communications
739712/01/2016, 10:19 - D Rouse: He claimed
739812/01/2016, 10:20 - C Bell: What a cock
739912/01/2016, 10:20 - A Collins: Who is this cockend?
740012/01/2016, 10:21 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
740112/01/2016, 10:21 - A Collins: Can we offer to do some interviews with 
7402
7403him? We'll send Ellen ??
740412/01/2016, 10:32 - H Carter: He's a nob desperate for some airtime
740512/01/2016, 10:32 - H Carter: Being a doctor against the strike fits 
7406
7407the bill
740812/01/2016, 10:35 - C Bell: And a UKIP candidate for MP
740912/01/2016, 10:35 - C Bell: TOO MANY FOREIGNS COMIN' ROUND 'ERE 
7410
7411STEALIN' OUR JOBS
741212/01/2016, 10:42 - A Collins: Need some quick advice:
74131) Student union have offered to print me some flyers, do we have 
7414
7415anything with the 5 asks or the key issues? 
74162) we've got a laptop coming to sign a petition, which one is best to 
7417
7418use?
741912/01/2016, 10:43 - M Redman: Adam there's a patient info leaflet on 
7420
7421one profession website
742212/01/2016, 10:43 - M Redman: Under 'print your own'
742312/01/2016, 10:44 - A Collins: Thanks
742412/01/2016, 12:08 - D Tooth: Lots of people are talking about going to 
7425
7426BMA house, have I missed something? The marches aren't taking place are 
7427
7428they
742912/01/2016, 12:17 - C Bell: Harry, we should send an email to students 
7430
7431for next week encouraging them
743212/01/2016, 12:31 - H Carter: Yes of course
743312/01/2016, 12:31 - H Carter: Good plan
743412/01/2016, 12:49 - D Rouse: JEREMY HUNT is due to give a live speach
743512/01/2016, 12:49 - A Collins: WHERE?! I'LL GO HECKLE ??????
743612/01/2016, 12:49 - A Collins: # emergencyflight
743712/01/2016, 12:52 - K Mohan: Where?
743812/01/2016, 12:54 - D Rouse: It's on the BBC rolling news
743912/01/2016, 12:54 - D Rouse: It failed to say where
744012/01/2016, 12:54 - D Rouse: Likely from some emergency bunker deep 
7441
7442underground
744312/01/2016, 13:00 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
744412/01/2016, 13:00 - D Rouse: Yes. The ones providing emergency care!
744512/01/2016, 13:01 - H Carter: We need somebody to explain that figure 
7446
7447pretty sharpish in the press
744812/01/2016, 13:02 - K Mohan: And do we know how many juniors are 
7449
7450striking?
745112/01/2016, 13:06 - D Rouse: Isn't the 38% just those who are providing 
7452
7453emergency care
745412/01/2016, 13:07 - H Carter: Laura k from the BBC is making a big deal 
7455
7456about it
745712/01/2016, 13:07 - H Carter: That the number striking doesn't reflect 
7458
7459the mandate
746012/01/2016, 13:07 - H Carter: Or something like that
746112/01/2016, 13:07 - H Carter: They're already starting their 'strike 
7462
7463was a failure' rhetoric
746412/01/2016, 13:12 - A Yassaee: What about if we share the photo and say 
7465
7466"thank you to our colleagues on call and in emergency care"?
746712/01/2016, 13:12 - H Carter: I think that's a good idea
746812/01/2016, 13:13 - A Borbora: 89% of merseyside public supports us. 
7469
7470Top story on the 1pm news
747112/01/2016, 13:14 - H Carter: I may tweet that Arrash if that's okay?
747212/01/2016, 13:14 - A Yassaee: Of course
747312/01/2016, 13:14 - A Yassaee: I'm posting it on FB
747412/01/2016, 13:15 - A Borbora: Yes it was on radio city about the 
7475
7476public support
747712/01/2016, 13:15 - C Bell: <Media omitted>
747812/01/2016, 13:17 - A Borbora: Jon Stanley? He used to work up here. 
7479
7480He's a failure career wise. He's widely despised in the region
748112/01/2016, 13:23 - C Bell: <Media omitted>
748212/01/2016, 13:23 - C Bell: Why are they running this that we're not 
7483
7484around the table?
748512/01/2016, 13:25 - A Yassaee: In our public responses, do we mention 
7486
7487something alluding to the who-to-trust issue? I can see that giving 
7488
7489plenty of ammo to media and opposition MPs
749012/01/2016, 13:36 - A Borbora: Quite a few of our reps here are 
7491
7492surgical registrars. They described Jon Stanley as a "arrogant 
7493
7494incapable failed surgeon"
749512/01/2016, 13:45 - A Collier Jeremy's just been on World at One on R4. 
7496
7497He performance was less polished than last week's efforts. Sounds like 
7498
7499he's feeling the pressure.
750012/01/2016, 13:46 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
750112/01/2016, 13:46 - A Collins: Lol
750212/01/2016, 14:17 - A Collins: Side note, what is the date of 6month 
7503
7504jobs changeover?
750512/01/2016, 14:18 - C Castles: 3rd Feb I assume
750612/01/2016, 14:19 - A Collins: Good thinking.
750712/01/2016, 14:21 - ?L Elliott: Mersey have done so well. I feel so 
7508
7509proud. 
7510http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/junior-doctors-
7511
7512strike-highlights-2000-10718636
751312/01/2016, 14:21 - E McCourt: Some fucker had robbed me on either the 
7514
7515picket or the meet the doctors. Bring me the anti-IA JD now, I am 
7516
7517totally in a fighty mood ??
751812/01/2016, 14:22 - A Collins: Stuff disappeared?? :(
751912/01/2016, 14:23 - E McCourt: Yup. No magic money cards anymore.
752012/01/2016, 14:41 - D Rouse: My favourite kind of card
752112/01/2016, 14:42 - A Collins: Maybe kitty could lend you hers, and her 
7522
7523intern to cancel your old ones?
752412/01/2016, 14:51 - C Castles: Seriously Ellen? That's really low. Was 
7525
7526it another doctor? Or was hunt skulking around?
752712/01/2016, 14:53 - A Collins: Maybe it's hunt trying to find his 7 day 
7528
7529NHS?
753012/01/2016, 14:54 - A Collins: *fund
753112/01/2016, 15:01 - E McCourt: Good Luck funding it from my 
7532
7533overdraft...
753412/01/2016, 15:22 - D Tooth: Ellen that's shitty, sorry!
753512/01/2016, 15:24 - A Collier 
7536
7537https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/686889468297519104
753812/01/2016, 15:25 - A Collier I'm sure you've all seen that clip, but 
7539
7540do any of you who have met Tim Sands think it's his voice interrupting 
7541
7542the interview?
754312/01/2016, 15:31 - D Rouse: Lol
754412/01/2016, 15:32 - D Tooth: Interesting, not met him
754512/01/2016, 16:22 - A Yassaee: People seen David Mowat's comments?
754612/01/2016, 16:22 - Z Greaves: ??
754712/01/2016, 16:23 - A Borbora: His son is a junior doctor
754812/01/2016, 16:23 - A Yassaee: Yup
754912/01/2016, 16:25 - A Collier What's he said? I can't find the comments 
7550
7551on Twitter.
755212/01/2016, 16:25 - A Borbora: They were talking about doing a debate 
7553
7554with him on local radio but press office advised against it
755512/01/2016, 16:27 - D Rouse: Hahaha love that BBC clip of them 
7556
7557interrupting the interview
755812/01/2016, 16:28 - A Collier Weirdly both sky and the BBC claim that 
7559
7560clip as their own, either way it a master class in how not to conduct 
7561
7562an interview.
756312/01/2016, 16:29 - A Collins: I think the interview is sky but was 
7564
7565played on Victoria Derbyshire
756612/01/2016, 16:30 - A Borbora: It does sound a bit like Sands.
756712/01/2016, 16:30 - A Collier Either way it's embarrassing for the sell 
7568
7569out Willian's.
757012/01/2016, 16:31 - A Collier I've listened over and over to it and 
7571
7572ultimately I don't think it is him but on first pass the likeness to TS 
7573
7574really struck. Not beyond the realms of imagination that it could be 
7575
7576him though.
757712/01/2016, 16:32 - A Borbora: Doubt he'd be involved with media work
7578I might ask him on Thursday
757912/01/2016, 16:32 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
758012/01/2016, 16:33 - A Collins: Nice
758112/01/2016, 16:33 - A Collier Some high level decisions to have no 
7582
7583contact with the media today have clearly be made.
758412/01/2016, 16:34 - A Collier <Media omitted>
758512/01/2016, 16:34 - D Rouse: Oh dear a guy for Patrick Leahy who works 
7586
7587for the RCS (apparently) was quoted on the FBGoD as criticising the 
7588
7589medics of Sandwell hospital for not going back in. 
7590
7591It was noted he was moaning from Salzburg Austria lol -
759212/01/2016, 16:34 - A Yassaee: Unfortunate
759312/01/2016, 16:34 - A Collins: Yes I rather enjoyed that!
759412/01/2016, 16:34 - A Collins: Someone commented epically "anyway, 
7595
7596enjoy skiing"
759712/01/2016, 16:35 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
759812/01/2016, 16:35 - D Rouse: Everyone knows Dr C
759912/01/2016, 16:35 - A Collier Psychs represent!!!
760012/01/2016, 16:35 - A Collier Former patients :-P
760112/01/2016, 16:38 - D Rouse: Haha. Is that how collins knows you
760212/01/2016, 16:38 - D Rouse: Former patient
760312/01/2016, 16:39 - M Redman: Ach Aaron - Sophie Christopher there
760412/01/2016, 16:39 - M Redman: One of my allocated buddies for a year at 
7605
7606hyms
760712/01/2016, 16:40 - A Yassaee: We had almost unanimous public support 
7608
7609today at our end - I'm guessing everyone is reporting similar?
761012/01/2016, 16:42 - ?L Elliott: Yes. radio city ran some poll here and 
7611
7612was 89% support. BBC radio Merseyside interviewed some people at the 
7613
7614bus stop (lol) and all were very supportive. Very reassuring
761512/01/2016, 16:43 - A Collins: I'm actually a current patient...
761612/01/2016, 17:01 - E McCourt: Yup. Lots of JD love in Hull today.
761712/01/2016, 17:02 - E McCourt: <Media omitted>
761812/01/2016, 17:10 - T Crocker-Buque: Was at the RLH picket today - 
7619
7620great turnout, positive feelings and support from seniors and the 
7621
7622public. Good work from all involved.
762312/01/2016, 17:10 - D Tooth: Question is, what next?
762412/01/2016, 17:12 - A Yassaee: Are talks to start tomorrow or is it 
7625
7626still to be confirmed?
762712/01/2016, 17:12 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
762812/01/2016, 17:13 - A Yassaee: I genuinely think that might be the 
7629
7630way/message  to go
763112/01/2016, 17:14 - A Collins: Naww. Dat smile.
763212/01/2016, 17:15 - A Yassaee: With the weekend mortality bit - it 
7633
7634seems he's retreating on the other points and that's literally the only 
7635
7636line he is trotting out now.
763712/01/2016, 17:27 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hey guys. Still going strong on 
7638
7639the UCH picket (going to wrap up at 6). Fantastic stff at north thames. 
7640
7641Is it all good centrally for now? Any crises? Haven't been keeping up 
7642
7643with the exec feed. Heres a comedy celeb pic for u guys.....
764412/01/2016, 17:27 - L J Davis: We regrouped at the bri in bristol a few 
7645
7646hours ago, although I own up I've come home (trying to be responsible, 
7647
7648getting a bit cold for small people...)
7649
7650Amazed by support. People came up to get stickers & ask us for info. 
7651
7652Both just on the streets & on picket line. Amused by how polite Drs 
7653
7654were. Maybe we need med student training on approaching the public 
7655
7656during a strike.
7657
7658Also, med students conspicuous by absence. One did refer to Harry as 
7659
7660being 'like God'.
766112/01/2016, 17:28 - Y Gourtsouyannis: <Media omitted>
766212/01/2016, 17:30 - A Collins: Love the photo!
766312/01/2016, 17:32 - T Crocker-Buque: Is that Yannis in disguise?
766412/01/2016, 17:34 - H Carter: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-
7665
7666news/hero-striking-junior-doctor-leaves-7166661
766712/01/2016, 17:36 - B Roberts: Harry, that article is so amazing it's 
7668
7669brought a tear to my eye!
767012/01/2016, 17:37 - C Castles: Is that Martin Freeman or David?
767112/01/2016, 17:39 - B Roberts: Seriously, everyone should be so proud 
7672
7673of today. I feel as if I (and Wales) have missed out. But not really. 
7674
7675We have a nice government... Well done, all!
767612/01/2016, 17:39 - B Roberts: LJD, I might come and play in Bristol 
7677
7678next week on my non-working day, assuming that JH hasn't been 
7679
7680sacked/quit/topped himself in the meantime...
768112/01/2016, 17:42 - A Borbora: Today belongs to the regional and 
7682
7683hospital reps. They've made this happen and it'll be them that keeps 
7684
7685the BMA relevant long after this is over. 
7686I'm so proud of my reps up here. 
7687Full pickets, non-doctor support, huge public engagement and not a 
7688
7689single incident or complaint. 
7690??
769112/01/2016, 17:45 - K Mohan: yannis, are itv coming to you? they rang 
7692
7693me looking for a picket what would still be going at 6. all our folk 
7694
7695are out doing mtd events at the moment so i told the bma media office 
7696
7697to contact you or tim
769812/01/2016, 17:45 - K Mohan: in other news, i don't think that's tim 
7699
7700sands in the clip.
770112/01/2016, 17:48 - L J Davis: Ooh come to bristol! Just not on Monday 
7702
7703:) I'll be at Jdc!
770412/01/2016, 17:56 - A Collins: Anyone else coming to JMF?
770512/01/2016, 17:56 - B Roberts: Oops, I meant next strike day, not next 
7706
7707week! Too tired to function...
770812/01/2016, 17:56 - H Carter: I am
770912/01/2016, 17:56 - H Carter: Johann will be
771012/01/2016, 17:56 - H Carter: As will Charlie
771112/01/2016, 17:56 - A Borbora: I'm being messaged by lots of Liverpool 
7712
7713surgeons with dirt on Jon Stanley
771412/01/2016, 17:57 - A Borbora: I'm on holiday so not going to JMF
771512/01/2016, 17:57 - H Carter: Leak it?
771612/01/2016, 17:57 - A Collier I'll be there but only in the afternoon 
7717
7718to do a workshop and for the dinner
771912/01/2016, 17:57 - H Carter: That may be slightly too outrageous 
7720
7721actually
772212/01/2016, 17:57 - A Collins: Just tell the surgeons to pop it on 
7723
7724twatter
772512/01/2016, 17:57 - K Mohan: i'll be there.
772612/01/2016, 17:58 - A Collins: Yay to all the JMF attendees :)
772712/01/2016, 18:00 - D Rouse: I Wana go to JMF now lol
772812/01/2016, 18:00 - B Roberts: I'm at JMF, too!
772912/01/2016, 18:01 - A Borbora: I'll see what they do. He's rather 
7730
7731unpopular.
773212/01/2016, 18:07 - M Redman: Awful coverage on bbc
773312/01/2016, 18:07 - A Collins: Surely you can come as a holiday rousey? 
7734
7735Heard you like holidays :p
773612/01/2016, 18:08 - D Rouse: Hahaha
773712/01/2016, 18:08 - D Rouse: Laughing so hard I'm coughing
773812/01/2016, 18:08 - M Redman: I'm at jmf!
773912/01/2016, 18:08 - A Borbora: Some of us had 6 holidays in 2015.
774012/01/2016, 18:09 - A Borbora: #justsaying
774112/01/2016, 18:09 - D Rouse: Sha
774212/01/2016, 18:09 - C Castles: I've never been to jmf, and this is the 
7743
7744last year I'm eligible to go
774512/01/2016, 18:09 - ?L Elliott: Aaron you had 7 actually #JustSaying
774612/01/2016, 18:09 - A Collins: Well the conf Unit rang me to invite me 
7747
7748:s
774912/01/2016, 18:09 - D Rouse: Bridlington, Brighton, Scarborough, 
7750
7751Blackpool, mablethrope, Skegness and cleethropes
775212/01/2016, 18:10 - D Rouse: I saw the Facebook posts Aaron
775312/01/2016, 18:10 - M Redman: I was invited too! Yay!
775412/01/2016, 18:10 - D Rouse: Least no one can call u Moët medic
775512/01/2016, 18:10 - A Borbora: Oh yeah I forgot about that small 
7756
7757holiday
775812/01/2016, 18:10 - A Collins: You missed your annual trip to Grimsby?! 
7759
7760Outraged.
776112/01/2016, 18:10 - H Carter: I think we were all invited!
776212/01/2016, 18:10 - A Borbora: I only drink Bolly. I'm not a pleb
776312/01/2016, 18:10 - D Rouse: Why's no one invited me :-((((((
776412/01/2016, 18:10 - M Redman: Why? Bc so many other people want to go
776512/01/2016, 18:10 - D Rouse: Feel left out
776612/01/2016, 18:11 - H Carter: Is that a repeat joke, Aaron?
776712/01/2016, 18:11 - A Borbora: Of course. I avoid innovation
776812/01/2016, 18:19 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
776912/01/2016, 18:25 - D Tooth: Yes I'm going to jmf
777012/01/2016, 18:31 - L J Davis: Hey david, don't worry, I'm not going to 
7771
7772jmf. 
7773A) it's in Manchester
7774B) it's jmf
7775C) did I mention it's in Manchester? ;)
777612/01/2016, 18:32 - C Castles: I'm left out too David
777712/01/2016, 18:32 - C Castles: I've never been invited
777812/01/2016, 18:32 - C Castles: Is it run by the pullman hotel?
777912/01/2016, 18:33 - L J Davis: Is it 12yrs post grad?
778012/01/2016, 18:33 - D Rouse: LJD I sent a message ? Meeting
778112/01/2016, 18:33 - C Castles: Hmm. Was it ten years after full 
7782
7783registration?
778412/01/2016, 18:33 - C Castles: Something like that
778512/01/2016, 18:34 - K Mohan: list of random food delivered to the st 
7786
7787thomas' picket: a crate of croissants and pain au chocolat (i had to 
7788
7789stop the juniors being interviewed by robert peston holding a 
7790
7791croissant; a large box of portuguese egg custard tarts; a bag 
7792
7793containing 10 homemade loaf cakes; 3 wine boxes of assorted coffees; 
7794
7795and my favourite  - the solidarity satsumas. i just found one in my bag 
7796
7797it had actually frozen from the cold.
779812/01/2016, 18:35 - K Mohan: a most middle-class list of foodstuffs... 
7799
7800(as well as lots of brownies/flapjacks/biscuits etc)
780112/01/2016, 18:35 - D Tooth: Bbc now dr Fagan and some bird from Adams 
7802
7803institute not good
780412/01/2016, 18:35 - D Tooth: Kate someone
780512/01/2016, 18:35 - ?L Elliott: Christmas cake we had. A batch of 
7806
7807sandwiches. Gingerbread cake...
780812/01/2016, 18:35 - K Mohan: it;'s 12 years. i'm on my last go
780912/01/2016, 18:35 - ?L Elliott: I thought fogan was good.
781012/01/2016, 18:36 - ?L Elliott: That other one is awful
781112/01/2016, 18:36 - D Tooth: We have walked out on one issue not good!
781212/01/2016, 18:36 - D Tooth: American very twee young girl!
781312/01/2016, 18:37 - ?L Elliott: It's nice to see someone new instead of 
7814
7815the usual suspects. He's said a lot of reasons why we are striking. 
7816
7817She's chatting shit for want of a better word. Who even is she.
781812/01/2016, 18:37 - L J Davis: You are on London news are t you?
781912/01/2016, 18:39 - D Tooth: Yes I think so
782012/01/2016, 18:42 - H Carter: She often chats shit
782112/01/2016, 18:43 - D Rouse: Is it the Scottish one who was on v 
7822
7823Derbyshire with me and Johann
782412/01/2016, 18:43 - D Tooth: Yes Lottie doctor dangan was good it was 
7825
7826the American that was a misinformed
782712/01/2016, 18:43 - D Tooth: No American David not a doctor
782812/01/2016, 18:43 - D Tooth: Adams institute I think
782912/01/2016, 18:43 - ?L Elliott: Yeah soz I knew that's what you meant. 
7830
7831She was terrible. Good.
783212/01/2016, 18:44 - H Carter: She was doing just that on big questions 
7833
7834on Sunday. The tone of her voice infuriated me before I attempted to 
7835
7836listen to the substance-less clap she was spouting.
783712/01/2016, 18:45 - M Redman: ??
783812/01/2016, 18:45 - H Carter: she was arguing against Hamed Khan (is 
7839
7840that the right guy)?
784112/01/2016, 18:45 - H Carter: Who was very reasonably.
784212/01/2016, 18:45 - H Carter: * reasonable
784312/01/2016, 18:46 - H Carter: I'm referring to the Adam Smith lady by 
7844
7845the way.
784612/01/2016, 18:46 - D Tooth: Yes Harry that sounds like her, I wanted 
7847
7848to slap her!! ??
784912/01/2016, 18:46 - D Tooth: Whoops, I said it ??
785012/01/2016, 19:00 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
785112/01/2016, 19:00 - M Redman: One for the #fannis
785212/01/2016, 19:00 - M Redman: Solidarity card signed by a few other 
7853
7854unions
785512/01/2016, 19:06 - D Rouse: I love the domestics rep
785612/01/2016, 19:06 - D Rouse: Together we will clean the Tories out lol
785712/01/2016, 19:31 - A Borbora: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-
7858
7859news/junior-doctors-strike-theyre-fighting-7166845
7860
7861Go team Mersey
786212/01/2016, 19:37 - E McCourt: How many people just saw Jeeves on 
7863
7864Channel 4 news? Go watch it. now.
786512/01/2016, 19:39 - A Collins: Just watching some patients on BBC news 
7866
786724. 1 for us and 1 who leads an organisation "patient concern" quoting 
7868
7869the 15 percent bs :(
787012/01/2016, 19:39 - A Collins: Links to jeeves?
787112/01/2016, 19:40 - K Mohan: was it from earlier today or a live 
7872
7873interview
787412/01/2016, 19:43 - E McCourt: Live. Just 10 minutes or so ago
787512/01/2016, 19:47 - A Collins: Ah ok.
787612/01/2016, 19:47 - A Collins: Will have to wait for it to appear on 
7877
78784oD :)
787912/01/2016, 19:48 - D Rouse: Go Jeeves
788012/01/2016, 19:48 - A Borbora: It makes the BMA's own Lord Charles Hill 
7881
7882look like an amateur
788312/01/2016, 19:48 - A Collier Yes Patient Concern...Roger Goss by any 
7884
7885chance? He always fucking talks about pay and rations! I've never been 
7886
7887on a programme with him but I really want to ask about these rations 
7888
7889I'm due!
789012/01/2016, 19:49 - D Rouse: Powdered egg kinda ration?
789112/01/2016, 19:50 - A Collins: Yes Roger Goss. I wanted someone to just 
7892
7893explain the figures to him :( he even said that he'd heard the BMA was 
7894
7895denying them but 'if you just look at all the death certificates you 
7896
7897can see that you're 15 percent more likely to die if you get sick on a 
7898
7899Sunday"
790012/01/2016, 19:50 - A Collins: Poor lamb
790112/01/2016, 19:50 - A Collier Who knows. He's so out of touch as to be 
7902
7903laughable. On the today programme this morning he said "I happen to be 
7904
7905accompanying a friend for a cataract operation today and we're going to 
7906
7907have to face pickets!"
790812/01/2016, 19:51 - A Collins: There was an excellent girl from 
7909
7910Liverpool who as saying she had an op delayed and it would be up to 3 
7911
7912months before she could get it and blah and it was a bit of a sob 
7913
7914story, and then it all turned around when she was asked if she blamed 
7915
7916the juniors. And despite the anchor's repeated suggestion she refused 
7917
7918to budge and defended us massively :)
791912/01/2016, 19:51 - A Collins: Hah, yes he did begrudgingly accept that 
7920
7921"they were all very amicable on the pickets"
792212/01/2016, 19:51 - A Collins: ??
792312/01/2016, 19:52 - A Borbora: Liverpool is under control of Lottie and 
7924
7925I lol.
792612/01/2016, 19:52 - A Collier I was tempted to tweet "Both literally 
7927
7928and metaphorically Roger Goss is the blind leading the blind"
792912/01/2016, 19:52 - A Collins: Hah, have rhe two of you been 
7930
7931hypnotising the public?
793212/01/2016, 19:52 - A Collins: Andrew ?? 
7933I couldn't possibly have condoned that... Tee hee hee.
793412/01/2016, 19:52 - A Borbora: We even had a patient calling reporters 
7935
7936from a ward in hospital to support us
793712/01/2016, 19:53 - A Borbora: Lord Hill would have been proud
793812/01/2016, 19:53 - ?L Elliott: They were shouting out of the windows 
7939
7940of the Royal apparently.
794112/01/2016, 19:53 - D Rouse: Andy sadly the lack of sight would 
7942
7943continued
794412/01/2016, 19:53 - ?L Elliott: Love us mersey lot
794512/01/2016, 19:53 - D Rouse: As I am sure cataracts are off the menu 
7946
7947today
794812/01/2016, 19:58 - M Redman: I'm SO jealous of Martin Freeman pic. pic 
7949
7950of day!
795112/01/2016, 19:58 - K Mohan: How can it beat my pic with Dennis 
7952
7953Skinner? WHAT KIND OF MILITANT ARE YOU, MELO?!? :)
795412/01/2016, 19:59 - L Boyle: Dennis Skinner tops Martin Freeman - no 
7955
7956contest
795712/01/2016, 20:00 - L Boyle: #BolsoverBeast
795812/01/2016, 20:00 - K Mohan: haha. he did tell me his past medical 
7959
7960history. twice. which i could have done without.
796112/01/2016, 20:01 - L Boyle: The only way of topping that would be if 
7962
7963you had a photo at a picket with Sir Alex Ferguson or something
796412/01/2016, 20:01 - L Boyle: But Dennis is next best thing ??
796512/01/2016, 20:01 - K Mohan: well that's a challenge for next time
796612/01/2016, 20:01 - K Mohan: *hopefully no next time obvs
796712/01/2016, 20:02 - L Boyle: He's a big labour man, you never know ha
796812/01/2016, 20:02 - L J Davis: I've been to bolsover. There's a nice 
7969
7970castle...
797112/01/2016, 20:02 - L Boyle: Is that where the beast lives?
797212/01/2016, 20:03 - L Boyle: Or does his constituency surgery from?
797312/01/2016, 20:05 - A Borbora: http://www.itv.com/news/2016-01-
7974
797512/retired-nurse-tells-itv-news-striking-junior-doctors-are-
7976
7977disgraceful/
7978Probably had a run in with sir Solly
797912/01/2016, 20:09 - M Redman: I haven't seen that yet kitty!!!
798012/01/2016, 20:09 - M Redman: PMHx lol lol lol
798112/01/2016, 20:10 - A Collins: http://newsthump.com/2016/01/12/army-
7982
7983infantry-to-stand-in-for-junior-doctors-during-surgery
798412/01/2016, 20:10 - K Mohan: So my top 2 photos of the day:
798512/01/2016, 20:10 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
798612/01/2016, 20:10 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
798712/01/2016, 20:11 - A Collins: Lol
798812/01/2016, 20:11 - M Redman: Daww
798912/01/2016, 20:12 - M Redman: I didn't even get chance to look at other 
7990
7991people's tweets all day... Used the wrong hashtag all day! ??
799212/01/2016, 20:13 - A Collins: Bollocks she worked 7 days a week and 
7993
7994sometimes more... Think the old bat is losing it. I suggest a frontal 
7995
7996lobe assessment battery and ACE-R
799712/01/2016, 20:14 - K Mohan: erm. are you talking about sarah???
799812/01/2016, 20:14 - K Mohan: lol.
799912/01/2016, 20:16 - A Collins: Haha no sorry the retired nurse
800012/01/2016, 20:16 - A Collins: That would be a very rude thing the have 
8001
8002said about Dr Hallett and you know I am a bastion of politeness.
800312/01/2016, 20:17 - K Mohan: good. you are excused then.
800412/01/2016, 20:18 - M Redman: Omd paeds have just today invited for 
8005
8006clinical interview on 27th Jan... Why would they organise it same day 
8007
8008as strike... ??
800912/01/2016, 20:18 - M Redman: Esp when lottie said about medical ones
801012/01/2016, 20:19 - ?L Elliott: It's weird the ones they are moving. 
8011
8012ACCS also on strike day...
801312/01/2016, 20:20 - ?L Elliott: This is my favourite photo of the 
8014
8015day...the guy on the left is a homeless alcoholic who sleeps rough 
8016
8017opposite the Royal Liverpool. He came to the picket and even made a 
8018
8019little banner.
802012/01/2016, 20:20 - ?L Elliott: <Media omitted>
802112/01/2016, 20:22 - A Collins: Aww, top bloke. I hope he got plenty of 
8022
8023coffee and food
802412/01/2016, 20:55 - M Redman: someone on Yorkshire jdc commented that 
8025
8026Johann and jeeves wore same suit today. whole new level of jo-fanndom
802712/01/2016, 20:56 - D Tooth: Poor Jeeves!! ??
802812/01/2016, 20:56 - K Mohan: having seen them both today i can only 
8029
8030presume jeeves would be mortally offended by that comment - and rightly 
8031
8032so.
803312/01/2016, 20:56 - K Mohan: :)
803412/01/2016, 21:00 - J Malawana: No no.
803512/01/2016, 21:00 - J Malawana: He absolutely approves.
803612/01/2016, 21:01 - K Mohan: i doubt he does. don't lie yoyo.
803712/01/2016, 21:01 - J Malawana: When my brother, me and Jeeves all 
8038
8039lined up at the London, that was a special moment.
804012/01/2016, 21:01 - J Malawana: I was what they are both going to turn 
8041
8042into.
804312/01/2016, 21:01 - K Mohan: that photo was cool. :)
804412/01/2016, 21:01 - J Malawana: I pointed that out extensively.
804512/01/2016, 21:01 - K Mohan: lol
804612/01/2016, 21:01 - J Malawana: The before and after shot.
804712/01/2016, 21:01 - K Mohan: poor manil and jeeves
804812/01/2016, 21:01 - J Malawana: The evolution of Sri Lankan man
804912/01/2016, 21:02 - J Malawana: From boy to teenager to man.
805012/01/2016, 21:02 - K Mohan: so what's your day been like yoyo?
805112/01/2016, 21:02 - J Malawana: Good.
805212/01/2016, 21:02 - J Malawana: I was staying out of the news as much 
8053
8054as possible.
805512/01/2016, 21:02 - K Mohan: have the jo-fanns been out in full support
805612/01/2016, 21:02 - A Collins: Feeling a little warm and fuzzy after 
8057
8058all the action and pickets?
805912/01/2016, 21:02 - J Malawana: It could only go bad if I fronted up.
806012/01/2016, 21:02 - K Mohan: yeah i noticed that. :)
806112/01/2016, 21:03 - J Malawana: Had to see lots of faces.
806212/01/2016, 21:03 - K Mohan: is anyone doing news night?
806312/01/2016, 21:03 - J Malawana: Learn from hunt why you control the 
8064
8065exposure.
806612/01/2016, 21:03 - J Malawana: We have a positive news day.
806712/01/2016, 21:03 - J Malawana: Made more positive by seeing so many 
8068
8069docs out.
807012/01/2016, 21:03 - A Collins: :)
807112/01/2016, 21:03 - K Mohan: they were filming at st thomas' hospital
807212/01/2016, 21:03 - K Mohan: it was a good day
807312/01/2016, 21:04 - J Malawana: Did all the guerrilla Comms as well. 
8074
8075Briefing people and journalists behind the scenes.
807612/01/2016, 21:04 - J Malawana: Making sure our friends stay our 
8077
8078friends. :-)
807912/01/2016, 21:05 - A Borbora: I think our members and reps did really 
8080
8081well in the media
808212/01/2016, 21:05 - K Mohan: :) i love that everyone now calls it 
8083
8084guerrilla comms #thatwasmyphrase
808512/01/2016, 21:05 - J Malawana: :-)
808612/01/2016, 21:05 - A Borbora: They did us proud
808712/01/2016, 21:05 - J Malawana: Need to just write stuff on social. 
8088
8089Lots of scared people tonight.
809012/01/2016, 21:06 - J Malawana: But need them to see that hunt is 
8091
8092briefing out of fear. Not power.
809312/01/2016, 21:06 - J Malawana: Power is a perception.
809412/01/2016, 21:06 - J Malawana: Need to maintain the perception without 
8095
8096exposing the limits on our abilities
809712/01/2016, 21:07 - ?L Elliott: Can I ask that hospital reps are 
8098
8099thanked somehow?Without them the strike would of been nothing
810012/01/2016, 21:07 - D Tooth: Good idea Lottie
810112/01/2016, 21:07 - J Malawana: He still believes we are somehow 
8102
8103controlling the narrative and the masses.
810412/01/2016, 21:07 - J Malawana: Yes Lottie. Will be main focus of the 
8105
8106message over coming days.
810712/01/2016, 21:08 - ?L Elliott: Ace
810812/01/2016, 21:08 - J Malawana: It's basically what I say at every 
8109
8110meeting.
811112/01/2016, 21:08 - J Malawana: What I write often in most of the 
8112
8113messages about unity etc.
811412/01/2016, 21:08 - J Malawana: But will be extra explicit.
811512/01/2016, 21:08 - J Malawana: Yannis needs special mention
811612/01/2016, 21:09 - J Malawana: He wore a hoody to try and not be 
8117
8118spotted.
811912/01/2016, 21:09 - K Mohan: did it work?
812012/01/2016, 21:09 - J Malawana: And yet organised three picket lines. 
8121
8122And made sure he wasn't photographed with me.
812312/01/2016, 21:09 - K Mohan: maybe that was, you know, just his 
8124
8125clothes...
812612/01/2016, 21:09 - J Malawana: Lol
812712/01/2016, 21:10 - A Collins: That's a solid effort from yannis :)
812812/01/2016, 21:10 - J Malawana: Perhaps. Suppose it would go with the 
8129
8130lefty persona.
813112/01/2016, 21:10 - A Collins: Shifty hippy leftie?
813212/01/2016, 21:10 - K Mohan: we all tried to avoid being photographed 
8133
8134with you, yoyo. although i know how much hard work yannis put in.
813512/01/2016, 21:10 - J Malawana: Cause before the person. A true comrade 
8136
8137:-)
813812/01/2016, 21:11 - J Malawana: Hee hee.
813912/01/2016, 21:11 - J Malawana: He's not biting.
814012/01/2016, 21:11 - J Malawana: Damn
814112/01/2016, 21:11 - K Mohan: he's prob still on the picket
814212/01/2016, 21:11 - A Collins: Someone write comrades and drew a hammer 
8143
8144and sickle on their twitter selfie whiteboard today... I had to tweet 
8145
8146it but I forgot to put any hash tags on or tag any BMA accounts... Oops
814712/01/2016, 21:15 - M Redman: I got called 'red under the bed' in 
8148
8149comments in press. Does that make me a comrade?
815012/01/2016, 21:16 - K Mohan: i got called a left-wing radical but that 
8151
8152was by Andrew...
815312/01/2016, 21:16 - M Redman: Hahaha
815412/01/2016, 21:18 - A Collins: Striker in the streets, freak in the 
8155
8156sheets, red under the bed?
815712/01/2016, 21:18 - A Collins: I'm lost
815812/01/2016, 21:19 - K Mohan: who wants to go to council in my place 
8159
8160tomorrow so i can stay in bed. i've been in my flat for about 3 1/2 
8161
8162hours now and i still haven't thawed out.
816312/01/2016, 21:20 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
816412/01/2016, 21:21 - A Collier As Lottie has said the success of the 
8165
8166action today was only possible due to local organisers who have pulled 
8167
8168together their colleagues in a way that was unimaginable even 6 months 
8169
8170ago. We should definitely thank them. We also need to prepare them for 
8171
8172round 2.
817312/01/2016, 21:21 - D Tooth: Andrew just watching you in breakfast!! 
8174
8175Nice suit! 
8176You and Jeeves have done a wonderful job
817712/01/2016, 21:21 - L J Davis: I've been home since 5, in bed with baby 
8178
8179& still cold...
818012/01/2016, 21:22 - M Redman: Donna do you have link for colliers
818112/01/2016, 21:23 - A Collier Cheers Donna...I chose a cheap one just 
8182
8183in case they asked about us being over paid! :-) How did you manage to 
8184
8185watch it? I've only seen a shaking mobile phone recording of it.
818612/01/2016, 21:24 - D Tooth: Well very sadly my son recorded breakfast 
8187
8188for me as he saw the feed on striking doctors!!
818912/01/2016, 21:24 - D Tooth: And as id already left to strike, he 
8190
8191didn't want me to miss it! Thoughtful. But sorry melody, no help to you
819212/01/2016, 21:45 - A Collins: Has it occurred to anyone else that 
8193
8194Litmann have been getting an awful lot of free advertising out of all 
8195
8196this?
819712/01/2016, 22:09 - K Mohan: Guys, just got an email letting me know 
8198
8199that "The Sun" have put out a call in Germany asking for a German 
8200
8201junior doctor to comment on our contract changes. Presumably wanting 
8202
8203them to say that we've got it good.
820412/01/2016, 22:10 - D Tooth: I'm half German, I could do it!!
820512/01/2016, 22:10 - K Mohan: So Carsten (ex- EJD chair) and big 
8206
8207supporter of us has contacted them and said he'll do it. If he does 
8208
8209I'll send him all our briefings
821012/01/2016, 22:11 - D Tooth: Love it!
821112/01/2016, 22:11 - J Malawana: He's your EJD husband right?
821212/01/2016, 22:11 - J Malawana: The King of Europe?
821312/01/2016, 22:11 - K Mohan: erm no.
821412/01/2016, 22:11 - K Mohan: he's the former king.
821512/01/2016, 22:11 - A Collins: Do you mean that both their names are on 
8216
8217the credit cards?
821812/01/2016, 22:11 - K Mohan: sascha is the new king
821912/01/2016, 22:11 - K Mohan: huh?
822012/01/2016, 22:11 - A Collins: Mr and Mrs...
822112/01/2016, 22:11 - A Collins: NVM.
822212/01/2016, 22:12 - A Collins: I'm glad we have found someone to plant 
8223
8224in front of the media even across the continent ??
822512/01/2016, 22:12 - K Mohan: i could just let a random unsympathetic 
8226
8227junior do it if you all insist...
822812/01/2016, 22:12 - M Redman: Amazing!!!!! Nice work kitty
822912/01/2016, 22:13 - K Mohan: anyway, in return i appear to be speaking 
8230
8231to "hungary's biggest online news" about our contracts...
823212/01/2016, 22:13 - K Mohan: :)
823312/01/2016, 22:13 - A Collins: Ok ok. 
8234
8235Well done kitty. You're doing an excellent job. :) 
8236
8237Oh that sounds fun. Is that like Hungarian buzzfeed?
823812/01/2016, 22:14 - K Mohan: buzzfeed is not the uk's biggest online 
8239
8240news surely.
824112/01/2016, 22:14 - A Collins: On a related not Laura from. Buzzfeed is 
8242
8243churning out positive material.
824412/01/2016, 22:14 - A Collins: Is it not? I don't even know any other 
8245
8246online news sites.
824712/01/2016, 22:14 - K Mohan: surely that would be reuters or something
824812/01/2016, 22:14 - A Collins: Isn't Reuters American?
824912/01/2016, 22:14 - K Mohan: i met her today. like everyone else she 
8250
8251was at the st thomas' picket
825212/01/2016, 22:14 - K Mohan: isn't there reuters uk
825312/01/2016, 22:14 - K Mohan: or something like that
825412/01/2016, 22:14 - A Collins: Oh probably
825512/01/2016, 22:16 - J Malawana: Laura and Alix are lovely. Will take 
8256
8257anything mildly relevant as they know we put it all over social media 
8258
8259and get them click-through a
826012/01/2016, 22:19 - A Collins: Just like the sun, but in our pocket not 
8261
8262Jeremy's? :p
826312/01/2016, 22:19 - A Collins: Actually no.
826412/01/2016, 22:19 - L J Davis: I know it's random... But I caught the 
8265
8266one show with Angela rippon doing a section on how junior doctors 
8267
8268needed to work 24/7 and accept that people get ill any time... Etc... 
8269
8270Wasn't very balanced at all.
827112/01/2016, 22:19 - A Collins: The Sun aren't lovely and don't apply 
8272
8273the criterion of "mildly relevant"
827412/01/2016, 22:20 - A Collins: I've lost hope for the BBC. They seem to 
8275
8276be so terrified of their licensing review that they'll not stop until 
8277
8278their tongue is firmly lapping at Jeremy's DJ flexure.
827912/01/2016, 22:26 - B Roberts: I've heard a horrible rumour that the 
8280
8281Daily Mail online is the world's (!) biggest online news site. Tragic!
828212/01/2016, 22:26 - B Roberts: Adam, agree with you re BBC. They need 
8283
8284to do a BMA.
828512/01/2016, 23:08 - Z Greaves: Even the mirror are very nice! They even 
8286
8287nicked the guardian quote from pensions about ours being civilised 
8288
8289strikes 
8290http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/junior-doctors-strike-theyre-
8291
8292fighting-7166845
829312/01/2016, 23:09 - Z Greaves: Being not very
829412/01/2016, 23:10 - A Borbora: They've been Merseyed
829513/01/2016, 00:21 - A Yassaee: Many support striking doctors - poll 
8296
8297http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35288042
8298
8299So this was a common theme i got today (re emergency cover and public 
8300
8301opinion). Is it worth emphasising soon that emergency cover is provided 
8302
8303but by consultants/staff grades?
830413/01/2016, 07:20 - D Rouse changed this group's icon
830513/01/2016, 07:30 - J Malawana: We need to call for a real debate on 
8306
8307what is meant by 7 day services.
830813/01/2016, 07:30 - J Malawana: Perhaps we should use JDC on Monday to 
8309
8310call for that
831113/01/2016, 07:33 - H Carter: Would that be to see if we can align with 
8312
8313any of the sec of state's priorities for 7DS to reach a compromise? The 
8314
8315guardian are reporting today that people 'close to the negotiation' (on 
8316
8317our side) said we could compromise on plain time for weekdays as long 
8318
8319as Saturdays are untouched and we are optimistic that a deal can be 
8320
8321achieved.
832213/01/2016, 07:41 - A Borbora: 
8323
8324http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vjd82/north-west-tonight-
8325
832612012016
832715:45 
8328Lots of support
832913/01/2016, 07:44 - A Collins: Loving the new pic
833013/01/2016, 07:59 - D Rouse: I think that there will have to be some 
8331
8332compromise somewhere Harry
833313/01/2016, 08:00 - D Rouse: Otherwise we may never draw this to a 
8334
8335close
833613/01/2016, 08:00 - L J Davis: Erm. Sobbing junior on good morning 
8337
8338Britain? Weird
833913/01/2016, 08:00 - L J Davis: But fascinating it's still headline...
834013/01/2016, 08:02 - L J Davis: Ah. She's a psych reg.
834113/01/2016, 08:03 - L J Davis: 'Made to feel like people are dying 
8342
8343because of us...' ??????
834413/01/2016, 08:03 - L J Davis: Not good. Wonder how that happened.
834513/01/2016, 08:07 - D Rouse: Andrew
834613/01/2016, 08:07 - D Rouse: Think one of your colleagues needs a psych 
8347
8348assessment
834913/01/2016, 08:07 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
835013/01/2016, 08:12 - K Mohan: On gmb today? Was it Lauren again? She was 
8351
8352on yesterday?
835313/01/2016, 08:16 - L J Davis: Re 7 day services, happy to have a 
8354
8355debate. Maybe we could develop a position paper? 3 clinics a day? Or 2, 
8356
8357with, say, an emergency team at nights?
8358
8359In acute settings, it often felt like evenings were the worst point. 
8360
8361From 4-10. In part because GP setting referrals actually hit, but also 
8362
8363because people came in directly towards the end of the day.
8364
8365Surely it's about incentivising & coming up with innovative solutions, 
8366
8367not just getting more work time out of Drs for less money? Shouldn't 
8368
8369that be our focus?
837013/01/2016, 08:17 - L J Davis: Didn't catch name of sobbing reg. 
8371
8372'They're saying we're just greeedy! And it's not true!' ??????
837313/01/2016, 08:18 - B Roberts: I'm submitting a complaint to the BBC 
8374
8375for irresponsible reporting, implying that there will be NO doctors on 
8376
8377the walk-out today. If patients hear this, they'll stay away and people 
8378
8379will die.
838013/01/2016, 08:19 - B Roberts: On another note, is there mileage in 
8381
8382promoting how the emergency care days are actually better than weekend 
8383
8384cover? More seniors, GP surgeries open, etc?
838513/01/2016, 08:20 - A Yassaee: Bethan - not sure. It's easy then for DH 
8386
8387to say that weekends are then evidently understaffed and that's why we 
8388
8389need Saturday to be a normal day etc.
839013/01/2016, 08:20 - L J Davis: Bethan, you mean like, juniors could 
8391
8392actually be supernumary in most places...? ??
839313/01/2016, 08:25 - E McCourt: Question: "East Yorkahire Young Labour"  
8394
8395have asked if Amjad or I can go to their meeting tonight and talk about 
8396
8397our contract concerns and IA? Is this a thing we can do? Or too 
8398
8399political?
840013/01/2016, 08:25 - B Roberts: @Arrash - good point but I think it's in 
8401
8402keeping with our argument. No point having more doctors if you don't 
8403
8404have ancillary services (or pay them).
8405
8406@LJD - BBC certainly implied the supernumerary nature of juniors this 
8407
8408morning, failing to realise what juniors become when they're grown-up 
8409
8410doctors!
841113/01/2016, 08:26 - E McCourt: (Oh Amjad - they asked us this. Probably 
8412
8413should have mentioned that to you)
841413/01/2016, 08:26 - A Borbora: Yes - I've done the same thing at local 
8415
8416Labour groups.
841713/01/2016, 08:29 - A Yassaee: I'm not denying it's in keeping but it's 
8418
8419just offering an easy statement to retort to.
842013/01/2016, 08:29 - K Mohan: #elljad
842113/01/2016, 08:29 - A Yassaee: I think there are better ways to assure 
8422
8423the cover on IA is good
842413/01/2016, 08:30 - A Yassaee: Consultants testifying to it for example
842513/01/2016, 08:32 - E McCourt: Good good. #hullyeah
842613/01/2016, 08:42 - B Roberts: One complaint submitted to the BBC...
842713/01/2016, 08:52 - C Bell: Because?
842813/01/2016, 08:55 - A Collins: See above re: irresponsible reporting re 
8429
8430"total absence of doctors on FWO day"
843113/01/2016, 09:08 - C Bell: Ah
843213/01/2016, 09:15 - ?L Elliott: I complained to BBC back in sept for 
8433
8434bias. Didn't listen. Big companies like that don't care IMO. Doesn't 
8435
8436mean we can't hassle them.
843713/01/2016, 09:54 - J Malawana: Ljd and David it's something that cc 
8438
8439want to engage with as well. Perhaps you can engage with Keith and 
8440
8441kitty develop a paper on it
844213/01/2016, 09:55 - J Malawana: What is currently our combined BMA 
8443
8444position on 7day services.
844513/01/2016, 09:55 - J Malawana: It's a pan profession thing so best 
8446
8447coming in the professional issues portfolio.
844813/01/2016, 10:00 - D Tooth: Would obviously need to include GPC too
844913/01/2016, 10:01 - A Collins: Side note, looking at all the media 
8450
8451yesterday, whilst there was a lot of excellent stuff I felt we slightly 
8452
8453struggled to come across on why protections were missing. Some did 
8454
8455grasp on it (Andrew's "marking their own homework" bit was good) a lot 
8456
8457of docs never got round to explaining how a reduction in total working 
8458
8459hours and other plans from DH aren't going to work. 
8460
8461I wonder if we could try and shift a little of the emphasis onto the 
8462
8463dismantling of the mechanisms/how weak the guardian role will be, 
8464
8465alongside bits about nights working and 5 long shifts?
846613/01/2016, 10:10 - A Collins: Naaahhhhhhh
846713/01/2016, 10:34 - L J Davis: Brilliant Donna, thanks for volunteering 
8468
8469??????
847013/01/2016, 10:50 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
847113/01/2016, 10:56 - D Tooth: Happy to volunteer but think chaand and 
8472
8473exec might like it to be one of the chairs of subcommittees or exec 
8474
8475members are on board.
847613/01/2016, 11:03 - K Mohan: i'm not entirely sure what johann has 
8477
8478volunteered me for - this thread is a little hard to follow.
847913/01/2016, 11:04 - K Mohan: just to add to the sun did contact carsten 
8480
8481yesterday asking for his opinion but saying:  My understanding is 
8482
8483junior doctors in your country work longer hours for less pay but do 
8484
8485correct me if I am wrong..." not leading at all ;) I've sent him all 
8486
8487our briefings and key lines.
848813/01/2016, 11:10 - H Carter: Kitty you've been volunteered to work up 
8489
8490a paper with Keith (I assume because you're on CC) to look at 7DS.
849113/01/2016, 11:10 - K Mohan: Thank you, Harry. :)
849213/01/2016, 11:11 - A Collins: Hah, what wankers. Glad we got the 
8493
8494briefings to him!
849513/01/2016, 11:26 - H Carter: There was a really funny Twitter 'debate' 
8496
8497about Johann being both a junior doctor and a photographer. Some person 
8498
8499using the handle 'Emperor Real Pengy' is arguing that the strike was 
8500
8501wrong. With some bizarre twist of logic and misinformation the person 
8502
8503defending the strike is saying that Johann made the right call because 
8504
8505he's standing up for junior doctors even when he isn't one himself
850613/01/2016, 11:27 - H Carter: <Media omitted>
850713/01/2016, 11:45 - L J Davis: Oooh don't let on you're not a Dr Harry! 
8508
8509They'll be after you next!
851013/01/2016, 11:46 - L J Davis: Don't worry, I won't tell them you're a 
8511
8512god in bristol (apparently, according to people on picket line 
8513
8514yesterday)
851513/01/2016, 11:55 - B Roberts: @Lottie, I already have plans to take it 
8516
8517to the press complaints commission or whatever it's called these days. 
8518
8519I suggested that the BBC don't really want to be responsible for a "BBC 
8520
8521effect" to add to the already well established Hunt effect.
852213/01/2016, 12:11 - J Malawana: Viv head of legal department will come 
8523
8524on Monday to JDC to discuss whistleblowing. Ljd and David will be 
8525
8526leading on this issue for JDC.
852713/01/2016, 12:22 - K Mohan: are you staying here all day?
852813/01/2016, 12:22 - K Mohan: oops that was meant for johann not for all 
8529
8530exec
853113/01/2016, 12:23 - A Collins: Always awkward when you bring a guy home 
8532
8533and he just won't leave...
853413/01/2016, 12:24 - K Mohan: especially when there are about 70 people 
8535
8536here with us, yes.
853713/01/2016, 14:54 - A Yassaee: I dont think Corbyn mention yesterday at 
8538
8539all at PMQs??
854013/01/2016, 15:22 - K Mohan: yannis can i have danielle (nursing 
8541
8542student)s email address or phone number please
854313/01/2016, 15:22 - K Mohan: or Johann do you have it?
854413/01/2016, 15:32 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 07760770410
854513/01/2016, 15:32 - K Mohan: Thanks!
854613/01/2016, 15:33 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Email is 
8547
8548danielle.tiplady@kcl.ac.uk
854913/01/2016, 15:33 - K Mohan: awesome - just passing it on to louise 
8550
8551irvine
855213/01/2016, 17:18 - ?L Elliott: I didn't see the hospital reps getting 
8553
8554a thank you on the email today I thought they would? 
8555They are so pleased they have got into local papers - I'm so proud of 
8556
8557them.
855813/01/2016, 17:51 - K Mohan: So this is what has gone to the Sun from 
8559
8560Carsten in Germany. I may or may not have had a hand in writing it 
8561
8562although the last time of the last main para was all him.
856313/01/2016, 17:51 - K Mohan: Hi Christina
8564
8565I like many of my junior doctor colleagues in Germany have been 
8566
8567watching the junior doctor contract discussions with interest. I know 
8568
8569several junior doctors in the UK and know that they are very upset 
8570
8571about  proposed changes to the junior doctors contract. 
8572
8573I'm really surprised that the junior doctor salary in the UK is as low 
8574
8575as it is as according to articles I have read a junior doctor in the UK 
8576
8577earns in the first year after med school around £ 23.000 per year 
8578
8579(working 40 hours a week). In Germany we have different contracts, the 
8580
8581most comparable would be the one in public clinics. Here a Junior 
8582
8583Doctors earns around £ 37750 per year with also 40 working hours per 
8584
8585week. The pay discrepancy appears to remain constant after payment for 
8586
8587out of hours is added. 
8588
8589If you compare junior doctors 5 years after training, compared with 
8590
8591Junior Doctors in Germany, our colleagues in the UK continue to earn 
8592
8593much less than we do. 
8594
8595One of the major topics in the 2010 junior doctor strike in Germany was 
8596
8597the increase of payment in so called "unfavourable hours" (meaning 
8598
8599nights and weekends). I note from media reports that this is a 
8600
8601significant issue in the UK junior doctor contract dispute. 
8602
8603Your impression that Junior Doctors in Germany work longer for less 
8604
8605payment used to be right, but changed dramatically after the strikes we 
8606
8607had in 2006 & 2010. So overall from what I know from the media I fully 
8608
8609understand why Junior Doctors are on strike in the UK, although I am 
8610
8611very surprised this didn´t happen earlier. 
8612
8613In case you have more questions please let me know.
8614
8615Best
8616Carsten
861713/01/2016, 17:53 - D Rouse: Hahah love it
861813/01/2016, 17:53 - A Collins: "I understand from the media reports and 
8619
8620definitely not from any confidential briefings that..."
862113/01/2016, 17:53 - K Mohan: 3rd para - first sentence has been changed 
8622
8623to read "5 years after graduation"
862413/01/2016, 17:54 - K Mohan: there are no confidential briefings - all 
8625
8626our briefings are available on the bma website.
862713/01/2016, 17:54 - K Mohan: kind of.
862813/01/2016, 17:55 - J Malawana: Lottie you're right about that. I put 
8629
8630it in my social media message and that draft I dropped the ball as was 
8631
8632doing whilst juggling a really problematic council meeting.
863313/01/2016, 17:55 - J Malawana: Sorry. Will put it as a special message 
8634
8635in the next one.
863613/01/2016, 17:56 - K Mohan: that's the second email i've written for 
8637
8638someone today. hopefully this one has less typos than the first or my 
8639
8640career as a PA is OVER.
864113/01/2016, 17:56 - A Collins: Well yes I suppose they are. Just 
8642
8643briefings then :)
864413/01/2016, 17:56 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Excellent kitty
864513/01/2016, 17:58 - ?L Elliott: I don't read that group nor do a lot of 
8646
8647people but thanks for putting it on there.
864813/01/2016, 18:03 - D Tooth: Aaron no bbc news!!
864913/01/2016, 18:03 - D Tooth: Looking good!
865013/01/2016, 18:15 - J Malawana: I am going to sort it out in a 
8651
8652different way Lottie. Leave it with me.
865313/01/2016, 18:16 - K Mohan: Did they have a quote from Jeremy hunt or 
8654
8655George Osborne in the end?
865613/01/2016, 18:17 - K Mohan: That's what hugh Pym's producer told me.
865713/01/2016, 18:18 - A Borbora: George. 
8658Will I get ronfans?
865913/01/2016, 18:20 - K Mohan: What was the quote?
866013/01/2016, 18:21 - L J Davis: Shurely aar-fans?
866113/01/2016, 18:25 - A Borbora: Even better!
866213/01/2016, 18:33 - C Castles: Arr-souls?
866313/01/2016, 18:34 - C Castles: Sorry, aar-soles
866413/01/2016, 18:35 - E McCourt: Conan wins.
866513/01/2016, 18:36 - C Castles: Damnit,  aar-souls. Autocorrect seems to 
8666
8667be messing around
866813/01/2016, 18:37 - K Mohan: Do we know what George Osborne said?
866913/01/2016, 18:48 - E McCourt: 
8670
8671http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06vj6gn/bbc-news-at-six-13012016
867213/01/2016, 18:48 - E McCourt: It's the first story
867313/01/2016, 19:16 - H Carter: For those of us on trains can we have a 
8674
8675brief summary of the iplayer clip?
867613/01/2016, 19:25 - A Borbora: I got on it. I was awesome lol
867713/01/2016, 19:32 - D Tooth: Hugh thinks the strike may have cleared 
8678
8679the air ahead of new talks!
868013/01/2016, 20:22 - K Mohan: Someone just text me to say I was on the 
8681
8682news? I'm really confused and have no idea if I was and what channel.
868313/01/2016, 20:24 - H Carter: Kitty by the way, in a meeting today, I 
8684
8685referred to Katy Petty Saphon as Kitty,
8686pretty much constantly (honest accident). She looked like I had punched 
8687
8688her in the nose a few times by the end of the discussion. I had 
8689
8690accidentally caused offence.
869113/01/2016, 20:25 - H Carter: Then she ignored me for the rest of the 
8692
8693meeting.
869413/01/2016, 20:37 - K Mohan: :)) I dislike that woman immensely.
869513/01/2016, 21:54 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Hey all. Proposal. Have u all 
8696
8697seen Lauren Gavaghan (Lolly Sarah) on her Sky news interview yesterday? 
8698
8699She's a junior doc psychiatrist. I think kitty, ellen, aaron and johann 
8700
8701may may remember hearing her speak at the LRC meeting. I don't knw if u 
8702
8703Johann or others have had much contact with her yet or aided her in 
8704
8705getting exposure. If not i really think we should b getting the media 
8706
8707people to have her as our 'grass-roots doctor of choice'. Thoughts? 
8708
8709(P.s don't take my word for it..see for yourselves...the Sky interview 
8710
8711is on the video section of the North Thames JDC facebook page. She also 
8712
8713aquitted herself very well on Piers Morgan (unlike Salwa Malik). P.s 
8714
8715not personally criticizing salwa or roshana or similar...they do a much 
8716
8717bettr job on TV than i ever could! But anyway... Lauren...let's get her 
8718
8719out there more. What do u think.
872013/01/2016, 22:04 - A Collier Sadly the control our media team have 
8721
8722over who we pitch as a grass roots doctor is limited as the broadcast 
8723
8724producers tend to make direct approaches to doctors who they see on 
8725
8726social media. The best way that Lolly Sarah can get in front of the 
8727
8728camera is to maintain a high profile on Twitter etc. Having said all of 
8729
8730that its not impossible for our press team to utilise her talents as 
8731
8732they are sometimes asked for "a regular doctor". I've watched her 
8733
8734interviews and they're good, however once she's done a number of 
8735
8736interviews she then shifts from 'grassroots' to 'campaigning' doctor.
873713/01/2016, 22:04 - A Yassaee: She handled the question about you 
8738
8739pretty well ;)
874013/01/2016, 22:05 - A Yassaee: And agree with Andrew - I think the 
8741
8742nature of this means we'd have to regularly cycle through people until 
8743
8744they become recognisable
874513/01/2016, 22:15 - K Mohan: I don't entirely agree. I think twitter is 
8746
8747important but in an way has now had it's day as the journalists have a 
8748
8749lot of contacts that they got via twitter in sept/oct. I think Lauren's 
8750
8751likely to be called back by those she has done interviews with before. 
8752
8753TBH, she's totally media savvy and knows how to make contacts - she's 
8754
8755behind the whole wearyournhs campaign - i doubt she needs our advice.
875613/01/2016, 22:23 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Very glad to hear ur thoughts 
8757
8758above. Looks like we're of a similar view. Ur right Kitty she is 
8759
8760totally on it and she's in no need of advice BUT i have been talking to 
8761
8762her and have worked with her on a few things and i think she would 
8763
8764definitely appreciate Exec keeping her in mind and suggesting her where 
8765
8766we see fit. And i mean this informally. IF lolly DID want to contact u 
8767
8768guys are u guys happy for me to give her ur numbers...maybe you could 
8769
8770smooth her way towards the BMA press team...(Kitty? Andrew?)
877113/01/2016, 22:25 - K Mohan: Always happy to talk to her. she's one of 
8772
8773my lnc reps and a member of south thames jdc.
877413/01/2016, 22:25 - D Rouse: I have heard her talk at a Maudsley 
8775
8776meeting
877713/01/2016, 22:25 - D Rouse: Some of her views are not inline with BMA
877813/01/2016, 22:25 - A Collier Not sure we're the best links to the 
8779
8780press team (we're not always their favourite doctors) but happy to 
8781
8782help. The press team do sometimes ask for suggestions.
878313/01/2016, 22:26 - D Rouse: In fact some wouldn't do us favours
878413/01/2016, 22:26 - D Rouse: She was very militants
878513/01/2016, 22:26 - D Rouse: She is an amazing orator
878613/01/2016, 22:27 - D Rouse: But would need someone to bring her up to 
8787
8788speed
878913/01/2016, 22:27 - A Collier Yes we have pro-McQueen policy and she's 
8790
8791clear in cahoots with Westwood.
879213/01/2016, 22:28 - K Mohan: tbh, i coordinated most of the press stuff 
8793
8794for my south thames juniors on tuesday across the different sites. they 
8795
8796(the reps) ask me who to suggest so happy to keep her in mind - i 
8797
8798always nominate dagan so good to have someone else.
879913/01/2016, 22:28 - K Mohan: she has drama training i think.
880013/01/2016, 22:28 - K Mohan: if i remember correctly
880113/01/2016, 22:28 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Good stuff...p.s David of course 
8802
8803no grass roots doc is entrirely 'in line'. And actually not sure there 
8804
8805is a 'BMA-wide' line. Although of course there is an 'exec line'.
880613/01/2016, 22:29 - A Collier Given that Yannis made the suggestion I'm 
8807
8808shocked that she may have militant views!
880913/01/2016, 22:29 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Kitty thats great...and yes 
8810
8811forgot that u were both south thames
881213/01/2016, 22:30 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha andrew. Yep of course we 
8813
8814share some views...but then we all do!
881513/01/2016, 22:30 - D Rouse: Kittys my south Thames boss
881613/01/2016, 22:31 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Also....i remember a guy from up 
8817
8818north who used to come to come to North Thames meetings...he was pretty 
8819
8820militant too! ....eh David ;-)
882113/01/2016, 22:31 - K Mohan: co-boss
882213/01/2016, 22:31 - D Rouse: Lol
882313/01/2016, 22:31 - A Borbora: Anyone see news at 10 ??
882413/01/2016, 22:31 - D Rouse: I am exec militant
882513/01/2016, 22:32 - D Rouse: As you know Yannis
882613/01/2016, 22:32 - D Rouse: Indeed kitty coboss
882713/01/2016, 22:32 - D Rouse: I have bosses coming out of my ears.
882813/01/2016, 22:32 - K Mohan: and famously was screaming "WHERE IS KITTY 
8829
8830MOHAN" as i walked into london regional council that one time...
883113/01/2016, 22:38 - B Roberts: I saw the News at 10, Aaron and am a 
8832
8833confirmed Aar-sole now.
883413/01/2016, 22:38 - B Roberts: Though you knew that anyway after you 
8835
8836won me that banding appeal!
883713/01/2016, 22:38 - A Collins: is the news at 10 same as 1800?
883813/01/2016, 22:40 - A Collier Rather depends on what happens in the 
8839
8840preceding 4 hours.
884113/01/2016, 22:41 - A Collins: SO GLAD YOU'RE HERE TO HELP :P
884213/01/2016, 22:41 - A Collins: I meant about Aaron's segment :)
884313/01/2016, 22:41 - A Collier I do not agree with those who say there 
8844
8845are no stupid questions.
884613/01/2016, 22:42 - A Collier Alright Collins, the programme is 
8847
8848different though sometimes uses the same/similar video packages.
884913/01/2016, 22:43 - K Mohan: DO YOU ALL SEE NOW WHAT I HAD TO PUT UP 
8850
8851WITH FOR TWO WHOLE YEARS??!??!?!
885213/01/2016, 22:43 - K Mohan: :)
885313/01/2016, 22:43 - A Collier Well if you ask stupid questions...
885413/01/2016, 22:44 - A Collins: Thanks Collier I am vaguely familiar 
8855
8856with news at a conceptual level... Just wondering if I have to go watch 
8857
8858the 10 o'clock  news to keep up my membership of the Aar-soul club
885913/01/2016, 22:44 - E McCourt: I am no closer to knowing if there was 
8860
8861anything new on the news... #aarsoul
886213/01/2016, 22:44 - A Collins: me neither :(
8863
8864No wonder Dr Collier's patients are all insane ??
886513/01/2016, 22:44 - A Collier I've long been camping for 24/7 hilarity!
886613/01/2016, 22:45 - K Mohan: aww you are all aarsouls.
886713/01/2016, 22:45 - B Roberts: Oh, no, did I get the official spelling 
8868
8869wrong?!
887013/01/2016, 22:45 - E McCourt: Camping?!
887113/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collins: Its funny, you're never this rude to 
8872
8873journalists, and they ask stupid questions all the time!
8874
8875Perhaps this should be the new strategy
887613/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collier Yes camping!
887713/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collins: yes, haven't you noticed Andrew being 
8878
8879deliberately camp for things?
888013/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collins: He's actually been on a "sponsored camp" 
8881
8882for the last 3 years
888313/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collier I'm still doing the sleep in tent protest 
8884
8885that was started 10 years ago
888613/01/2016, 22:45 - A Collins: Used to be a hells angel type.
888713/01/2016, 22:46 - K Mohan: shit, that's where he went.
888813/01/2016, 22:46 - A Collier My other campaign is "Typos for Justin."
888913/01/2016, 22:46 - E McCourt: Is it a particularly successful 
8890
8891technique? When does Johann start his intensive camping?
889213/01/2016, 22:46 - A Collins: lol
889313/01/2016, 22:47 - A Collins: Oh god no, he might go back to the "pink 
8894
8895on pink" look! :P
889613/01/2016, 22:49 - E McCourt: "Overworked doctors make misteaks"
889713/01/2016, 22:49 - A Collins: Just to check in, where do we stand on 
8898
8899the 10 o'clock news situation? (and if anyone says "wherever the floor 
8900
8901manager tells you...")
890213/01/2016, 22:49 - A Collins: <Media omitted>
890313/01/2016, 22:50 - A Collins: (Sorry Conan, I'll explain later for 
8904
8905you)
890613/01/2016, 22:50 - A Collier Well done Collins! Slow hand clap for the 
8907
8908floor manager joke
890913/01/2016, 22:50 - A Collier "Just say no to brown suits"
891013/01/2016, 22:51 - K Mohan: any one else think collins and collier are 
8911
8912turning into a double act... ?
891313/01/2016, 22:51 - A Collins: "Just Say No, to brown suits and brown 
8914
8915steak"
891613/01/2016, 22:51 - A Collins: ?
891713/01/2016, 22:52 - A Collins: We've been a double act ever since he 
8918
8919accused me of following him around at my first ARM. He said he was 
8920
8921unsatisfied with the comedy value of his current partner
892213/01/2016, 22:52 - D Rouse: Oh dear
892313/01/2016, 22:52 - D Rouse: Collier and camping
892413/01/2016, 22:52 - D Rouse: Trying to resist
892513/01/2016, 22:53 - D Rouse: It's so hard to
892613/01/2016, 22:53 - A Collins: Everyone thought I meant in a tent :(
892713/01/2016, 22:53 - A Collier Says Billy Elliot! Bring it ballet boy!
892813/01/2016, 22:53 - D Rouse: Hahaha
892913/01/2016, 22:53 - D Rouse: Ay up tha gret
893013/01/2016, 22:53 - D Rouse: Muppet
893113/01/2016, 22:53 - E McCourt: And we wonder why exec mutes whatsapp...
893213/01/2016, 22:54 - A Collins: Because after a while the laughing hurts 
8933
8934too bad?
893513/01/2016, 22:54 - D Rouse: Haha kitty loves it
893613/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: i'm still confused why adam was following 
8937
8938andrew around? did you think you had to sit alphabetically or something
893913/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: me? huh?
894013/01/2016, 22:54 - D Rouse: Who wouldn't follow Andrew
894113/01/2016, 22:54 - D Rouse: Kitty did for two years
894213/01/2016, 22:55 - D Rouse: ;-)
894313/01/2016, 22:55 - A Collins: ??
894413/01/2016, 22:55 - D Rouse: Waiting for kitty typing to appear
894513/01/2016, 22:55 - A Collins: I didn't say I *was* following him 
8946
8947around
894813/01/2016, 22:55 - K Mohan: yes that's exactly what i did
894913/01/2016, 22:55 - A Collins: Just that he accused me of it.
895013/01/2016, 22:55 - A Collier You two are either brave or very foolish
895113/01/2016, 22:55 - D Rouse: The latter
895213/01/2016, 22:55 - D Rouse: More mouse than man
895313/01/2016, 22:55 - A Collins: I guess I just have one of those 
8954
8955faces... Massive... Constantly looked closer than it is.
895613/01/2016, 22:55 - C Castles: I'm lost
895713/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: i think it's the latter. but they will 
8958
8959learn
896013/01/2016, 22:56 - C Castles: What's going on here?
896113/01/2016, 22:56 - D Rouse: Conan here to save the day
896213/01/2016, 22:56 - D Rouse: :-)
896313/01/2016, 22:56 - D Rouse: I'm injured anyway
896413/01/2016, 22:56 - A Collins: Ah, Dr Castles, just the man when 
8965
8966talking about missing steaks
896713/01/2016, 22:56 - D Rouse: You have to be nice to me
896813/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: david was being rude to me. he will one 
8969
8970day learn not to.
897113/01/2016, 22:57 - D Rouse: Kittys threatening me :-(
897213/01/2016, 22:57 - C Castles: I have never eaten a steak
897313/01/2016, 22:57 - D Rouse: And I'm poorly sick
897413/01/2016, 22:57 - K Mohan: i didn't say anything.
897513/01/2016, 22:57 - A Collins: Awwwwww David. What's wrong?
897613/01/2016, 22:57 - D Rouse: ??????????
897713/01/2016, 22:57 - D Rouse: On other news
897813/01/2016, 22:58 - A Collins: Its ok, let it all out.. There there... 
8979
8980(Come on Collier, he's sad, this is your time to shine!!)
898113/01/2016, 22:59 - D Rouse: Has the list server made up its mind about 
8982
89837/7 vs later/7
898413/01/2016, 22:59 - C Castles: He's only interested if they're bad
898513/01/2016, 22:59 - A Collins: I think they've decided that they don't 
8986
8987want to give it up
898813/01/2016, 22:59 - A Collins: But I'm not sure.
898913/01/2016, 23:00 - A Collier Video for all you Aar-souls
899013/01/2016, 23:00 - A Collier <Media omitted>
899113/01/2016, 23:00 - K Mohan: the dramatic build up...
899213/01/2016, 23:01 - D Rouse: I like listening to Jeeves talk
899313/01/2016, 23:01 - D Rouse: He sounds proper formal
899413/01/2016, 23:01 - D Rouse: Jefan?
899513/01/2016, 23:01 - A Collier He was good, a touch a aggressive but 
8996
8997very good
899813/01/2016, 23:01 - D Rouse: I like it a touch aggressive
899913/01/2016, 23:02 - D Rouse: It's a northern thing I think
900013/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier Excuse the unnecessary 'a'
900113/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier Jeeves is northern?
900213/01/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: i think jeeves was excellent. absolutely 
9003
9004superb
900513/01/2016, 23:02 - D Rouse: Noooo
900613/01/2016, 23:02 - D Rouse: Jeeves isn't northern
900713/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier Really? No way?
900813/01/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: i didn't think he was aggressive
900913/01/2016, 23:03 - D Rouse: They even said he wasn't like Saint 
9010
9011scargill
901213/01/2016, 23:03 - A Collier That's what a few people at work said 
9013
9014this afternoon, I actually thought the pitch was perfect for C4
901513/01/2016, 23:04 - D Rouse: Je-fan
901613/01/2016, 23:04 - D Rouse: Sound like Heman
901713/01/2016, 23:06 - A Collins: I thought it was good. Very slightly 
9018
9019media talk heavy with the introductory sentence on every answer "good 
9020
9021question" "well I think its important to notice" etc, but he's clearly 
9022
9023developing an excellent style
902413/01/2016, 23:07 - A Collier I know this is a bit hypocritical but 
9025
9026let's not discuss Jeeves without him being party to it.
902713/01/2016, 23:07 - D Rouse: I'm just saying I liked it
902813/01/2016, 23:07 - A Collins: Oh I forgot he's not on here :(
902913/01/2016, 23:08 - A Collins: Yes I agree
903013/01/2016, 23:08 - D Rouse: But Andrew is right
903113/01/2016, 23:08 - D Rouse: Anyway back to my attempt to see what the 
9032
9033mood of JDC was on the list server
903413/01/2016, 23:09 - A Yassaee: Having watched that clip again, can I 
9035
9036again flag up the wording of the full walkout - it's going to be really 
9037
9038hard to change the narrative the day before so are we planning on 
9039
9040emphasising that there will be emergency care? (Just consultant and 
9041
9042staff grade delivered)
904313/01/2016, 23:09 - L J Davis: I've only just turned this on... You've 
9044
9045all got verbal diarrhoea & if kitty wasn't involved she'd be so like, 
9046
9047"HOW MANY MESSAGES!?!?" ??????
904813/01/2016, 23:09 - L J Davis: ??
904913/01/2016, 23:09 - A Yassaee: I know we may not get that far etc
905013/01/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: After Tim posted to the wrong server
905113/01/2016, 23:09 - A Collins: yes, very disappointing to see "there 
9052
9053will be no emergency care" on full walk out day
905413/01/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: The mood appears to be
905513/01/2016, 23:09 - D Rouse: No back down from 7/7
905613/01/2016, 23:10 - A Borbora: It's all about the arr-soles
905713/01/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: Yet the best plan for achieving that is to 
9058
9059kick into the long grass and hope it goes away
906013/01/2016, 23:10 - D Rouse: Kinda worried neither will happen
906113/01/2016, 23:12 - L J Davis: I just want to add my two pence.
9062I think it was Lauren doing the crying on gmb this morning, which was 
9063
9064just excruciating. And I wasn't overwhelmed with the sky interview, so, 
9065
9066although we have no control over who does 'grassroots' interviews, I'd 
9067
9068be reluctant to send too much in her direction.
9069I'm sure she's lovely in real life, mind...
907013/01/2016, 23:12 - B Roberts: BBC N@10 said there would be "no 
9071
9072emergency care" on the full walk-out day. I feel another complaint 
9073
9074coming on.
907513/01/2016, 23:13 - B Roberts: Oh, and what are we deciding is the 
9076
9077official spelling for Aaron's fanclub? Think we've missed a trick not 
9078
9079thinking about Borborbitches.
908013/01/2016, 23:13 - A Yassaee: Yeah, so can we start countering this?
908113/01/2016, 23:13 - A Yassaee: Because even members are getting twitchy
908213/01/2016, 23:15 - B Roberts: Yes, needs to be countered. Plus, 
9083
9084they're not very good at saying "in England" at the end of their 
9085
9086sentences on the BBC. Playing the Welsh card.
908713/01/2016, 23:15 - L J Davis: I'm going to bed (well, to sleep; been 
9088
9089in bed for ages!). Don't let me wake to 100000 messages, please!
9090
9091Night night x
909213/01/2016, 23:15 - B Roberts: Kitty is typing!
909313/01/2016, 23:15 - K Mohan: i just watched a seven minute video of the 
9094
9095IA yesterday made by one of our reps and came back to 35 messages
909613/01/2016, 23:16 - K Mohan: that's observant.
909713/01/2016, 23:22 - L J Davis: Yep. See what I said earlier... That's 
9098
9099kitty, that is...
910013/01/2016, 23:23 - K Mohan: sod muting, i may actually delete this 
9101
9102group. maybe that way i don't have to hear myself described in the 
9103
9104third person about every 100 messages or 5 minutes!
910513/01/2016, 23:24 - C Castles: #aar-souls
910613/01/2016, 23:25 - K Mohan: quite.
910713/01/2016, 23:26 - M Redman: 202 msgs later...
91081) you guys are hilarious
91092) Lauren got mixed ratings from Yorkshire. There were various comments 
9110
9111about her attractiveness but mixed comments about her style
91123) I'm an #aar-soul and one of the #fannis
911314/01/2016, 07:40 - C Bell: In the sun today 'NHS docs killed Caesarian 
9114
9115mum'
911614/01/2016, 07:41 - D Tooth: Oh no
911714/01/2016, 07:49 - A Collins: ??
911814/01/2016, 08:02 - D Rouse: Where can't find that
911914/01/2016, 08:17 - A Collins: I can't find it online. I see some mail 
9120
9121story about a court case?
912214/01/2016, 08:17 - A Collins: Actually, from 2015 :s
912314/01/2016, 08:19 - C Bell: Let me find a copy and send
912414/01/2016, 10:25 - D Rouse: Looks like another man slaughter case :-(
9125
9126It's  only one side of story mind
912714/01/2016, 15:34 - Z Greaves: And Jdc leaks again!
912814/01/2016, 15:34 - Z Greaves: <Media omitted>
912914/01/2016, 15:35 - A Sami: Tim Yates has sent the email to his region 
9130
9131asking the question above
913214/01/2016, 15:36 - A Sami: He sent it by mistake to JDC.
913314/01/2016, 15:39 - ?L Elliott: I don't understand why the email is 
9134
9135concerning. I've asked the Mersey reps what they think. We are meant to 
9136
9137be representing the juniors in the region so why can't we ask. I don't 
9138
9139know why people engage in that group it's more hassle than it's worth
914014/01/2016, 15:42 - M Redman: We're talking about it in Yorkshire too. 
9141
9142It was discussed in guardian/indy/whatever as per Yates' original email 
9143
9144so reps need to have opportunity to share their thoughts
914514/01/2016, 15:48 - D Rouse: As per my emails on the list server in 
9146
9147answer to Tim. 
9148
9149Perhaps one answer to prolonged action is rolling strikes. 
9150
9151Paediatrics emergency care only. Followed by GP followed by surgeons 
9152
9153then medics etc etc
9154
9155Allowing for more sustained I/a? Keeping pressure up. 
9156
9157I don't know if this had been explored?
915814/01/2016, 15:53 - K Mohan: I've asked south thames too.
915914/01/2016, 16:43 - K Mohan: What's the "PM show" on radio 4 like? 
9160
9161Anyone who listens to grown up radio?
916214/01/2016, 16:45 - J Malawana: It's a milder version of the today 
9163
9164programme.
916514/01/2016, 16:49 - K Mohan: Oh ok. Thanks.
916614/01/2016, 16:49 - K Mohan: That means relatively little to me but I 
9167
9168get that the today programme is a big deal.
916914/01/2016, 16:49 - H Carter: Kitty a journalist messaged me from PM 
9170
9171asking for Junior Doctor
917214/01/2016, 16:49 - K Mohan: Gosh, Yoyo is a grown up who knew.
917314/01/2016, 16:50 - H Carter: * for a junior doctor
917414/01/2016, 16:50 - K Mohan: Is that the video diary?
917514/01/2016, 16:50 - K Mohan: Sorry is that for the video diary? If so, 
9176
9177yes I'm doing that.
917814/01/2016, 16:50 - C Bell: PM is excellent
917914/01/2016, 16:51 - K Mohan: I think I may be doing French radio as 
9180
9181well.
918214/01/2016, 16:51 - K Mohan: I have no idea why (the French radio).
918314/01/2016, 16:51 - H Carter: "Hi Harry, hope you're alright must have 
9184
9185been a turbulent week for you with all the strike business. I hope the 
9186
9187negotiations are going somewhere good for all of you. I'm working on PM 
9188
9189for Radio 4, I'd like to get in touch with a junior doctor who will be 
9190
9191on strike next week and see if they might do some recording with us. 
9192
9193Might you be able to help me out please? if you can help please get in 
9194
9195touch on [mobile number] thanks. would be good to get the message out 
9196
9197to junior doctors who are good talkers today thanks
919814/01/2016, 16:52 - H Carter: Haha it's like when South African radio 
9199
9200contacted my dad last week. I'm not even an 'effing junior doctor!!
920114/01/2016, 16:52 - K Mohan: I presume it's the same thing. Val 
9202
9203messaged me today.
920414/01/2016, 16:52 - K Mohan: :)
920514/01/2016, 16:54 - H Carter: Cool
920614/01/2016, 16:59 - L J Davis: ?? PM
920714/01/2016, 17:00 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
920814/01/2016, 17:03 - A Yassaee: This the guy Tom debated?
920914/01/2016, 17:04 - K Mohan: no idea- trying to get more info. Either 
9210
9211way sounds like something if being done should be done by someone who 
9212
9213is savvy.
921414/01/2016, 17:07 - A Collier Even without the complication of the 
9215
9216debate the Sunday Politics is not an easy gig (and if Andrew Neil is 
9217
9218presenting doubly so). Definitely not one for someone who is new. Have 
9219
9220you suggested someone Kitty?
922114/01/2016, 18:08 - L J Davis: Ok. I'm in the Hastings room feeding 
9222
9223Rory. Older man just came over and explained there's a special baby 
9224
9225room in the basement, for if I want privacy...
9226I feel very weird. Was he being a) nice? Or b) passive aggressive?
922714/01/2016, 18:09 - L J Davis: (I'm fully covered & you can't see 
9228
9229anything...)
923014/01/2016, 18:09 - K Mohan: Prob b)
923114/01/2016, 18:09 - M Redman: I think that's kinda sweet. Though I 
9232
9233imagine it in 'cute old man' tone of voice
923414/01/2016, 18:10 - K Mohan: I love melody. She always thinks the best 
9235
9236of people. I always think the worst. :)
923714/01/2016, 18:10 - L J Davis: Nah. Slightly aggressive mid Atlantic 
9238
9239voice
924014/01/2016, 18:10 - K Mohan: How did acas go today?
924114/01/2016, 18:10 - L J Davis: I wasn't there...
924214/01/2016, 18:10 - K Mohan: Sorry that was directed at Johann.
924314/01/2016, 18:10 - L J Davis: I've been phmcc & comar info
924414/01/2016, 18:11 - K Mohan: Or Ellen or Aaron
924514/01/2016, 18:15 - T Crocker-Buque: Did he look slight portly and 
9246
9247disheveled?
924814/01/2016, 18:23 - J Malawana: Hmm.
924914/01/2016, 18:23 - J Malawana: Ok.
925014/01/2016, 18:23 - J Malawana: Not great
925114/01/2016, 18:24 - K Mohan: That sounds encouraging.
925214/01/2016, 18:24 - J Malawana: David dalton provides us someone useful 
9253
9254to find a deal.
925514/01/2016, 18:25 - J Malawana: But is going to be really difficult to 
9256
9257get something wholly acceptable.
925814/01/2016, 18:28 - B Roberts: On the Radio 4 issue, More or Less 
9259
9260tomorrow are tackling the weekend stroke death statistics.
926114/01/2016, 19:39 - K Mohan: I'm a bit confused as to what the Facebook 
9262
9263people are squeaking about.
926414/01/2016, 19:39 - K Mohan: Is it a regional email? Or which email?
926514/01/2016, 19:45 - A Collins: “My assessment is that the staff group 
9266
9267that will have to contribute the least above that which they are 
9268
9269providing at the moment would be our doctors in training. Our messaging 
9270
9271on this has got muddled,” he said.
927214/01/2016, 19:45 - A Collins: From Dalton. I have long thought this 
9273
9274but how do we say without passing the blame to other Professions?
927514/01/2016, 19:50 - C Castles: What is a mid Atlantic voice lucy jane?
927614/01/2016, 19:51 - K Mohan: That concerns me. It translates to me as 
9277
9278"accept what we're offering you quietly as it'll be worse for everyone 
9279
9280else ". Which is midway between trying to convince people the deal is 
9281
9282good and encouraging us to screw everyone else over.
928314/01/2016, 20:21 - L J Davis: Mid Atlantic means probably from 
9284
9285somewhere west of you, but muddled up in a UK/US/Canadian sort of 
9286
9287accent, Conan.
9288
9289Not that he was a mer-man
9290
9291??
929214/01/2016, 20:28 - C Castles: Ah, thought he might be from atlantis
929314/01/2016, 20:33 - A Yassaee: difficulty in overcoming*
929414/01/2016, 20:33 - A Yassaee: Johann, are they any particular 
9295
9296points/narratives we're likely to find difficulty in?
929714/01/2016, 20:34 - A Yassaee: Adam - does Dalton mean in terms of pure 
9298
9299time at work/"effort" or is he talking about additional services? The 
9300
9301latter is inextricably linked to new models of care and might not be 
9302
9303the hardest concept to sell?
930414/01/2016, 20:35 - A Yassaee: If its the former, then yeah, what Kitty 
9305
9306said.
930714/01/2016, 20:46 - K Mohan: Hmm... So I started a couple of discussion 
9308
9309threads on our regional listserver this morning and we've had so much 
9310
9311listserver traffic in the last 9 hours that we've reached our daily 
9312
9313limit and the listserver has broken. :)
931414/01/2016, 20:47 - K Mohan: I'm so proud.
931514/01/2016, 20:56 - M Redman: Kitty was the thread about Kim 
9316
9317Kardashian?!
931814/01/2016, 20:58 - A Sami: Meldoy!!
931914/01/2016, 21:13 - A Collins: H was talking specifically in terms of 
9320
9321rots numbers. Ie apart from nurses/csws (who I think are the same every 
9322
9323day) by proportion of the normal weekday staffing there are generally 
9324
9325more Jr docs than any AHP or other BOP in work at the weekend /ooh
932614/01/2016, 22:34 - L J Davis: Can I just again I ?? radio 4
932714/01/2016, 22:48 - B Roberts: First question on QT!
932814/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier I don't think she's grassroots any more
932914/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier Here come the tears...again
933014/01/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: was it lauren? was she any good
933114/01/2016, 23:02 - A Collier She's shouting
933214/01/2016, 23:03 - K Mohan: or rather was her question any good
933314/01/2016, 23:03 - K Mohan: oooh
933414/01/2016, 23:03 - A Collier She commented on the subsequent 
9335
9336discussion
933714/01/2016, 23:03 - K Mohan: ahh. i realise i could just turn my tv on 
9338
9339but this is more exciting
934014/01/2016, 23:05 - B Roberts: Oh, is that her?
934114/01/2016, 23:05 - A Collier "Yellow cardi lady" as she's been dubbed 
9342
9343on Twitter
934414/01/2016, 23:08 - B Roberts: Ellen, the bbcqt account just tweeted 
9345
9346your picture! You celeb!
934714/01/2016, 23:17 - M Redman: Summarise??? I'm in a creepy airbnb with 
9348
9349no tv
935014/01/2016, 23:18 - K Mohan: WHY?
935114/01/2016, 23:19 - A Collins: What is it with you and creepy air 
9352
9353bnbs?! We've discussed this...
935414/01/2016, 23:21 - C Castles: I have no idea what an air bnb is
935514/01/2016, 23:21 - A Collins: its like hotels, for the miserable
935614/01/2016, 23:21 - M Redman: you don't wanna know Conan. stick to the 
9357
9358Pullman. 
9359
9360Summarise?????
936114/01/2016, 23:21 - C Castles: Is it a young person thing?
936214/01/2016, 23:22 - A Collins: its a peasant thing. Don't tar us all 
9363
9364with that brush
936514/01/2016, 23:22 - B Roberts: Camilla Long and Kelvin McKenzie are 
9366
9367immense twats.
936814/01/2016, 23:22 - A Collins: although I have seen some people who 
9369
9370have booked amazing places
937114/01/2016, 23:23 - B Roberts: "Junior doctors shouldn't be allowed to 
9372
9373strike... no I don't know why they're striking... oh, I've just made up 
9374
9375a pretend junior doctor friend who says it's ALL about pay"!
937614/01/2016, 23:23 - B Roberts: Not as good as your summaries, Melody!
937714/01/2016, 23:24 - C Castles: I have a made up friend in the DoH who 
9378
9379says hunt has sex with goats
938014/01/2016, 23:27 - C Castles: QT just about to start in NI
938114/01/2016, 23:27 - ?L Elliott: Kelvin MacKenzie is a disgrace. Why do 
9382
9383the BBC even think we want to listen him. He even said 'the truth'. 
9384
9385What a horrible man
938614/01/2016, 23:29 - A Yassaee: For those of us unable to watch, a 
9387
9388concise summary would be helpful to follow this thread.
938914/01/2016, 23:35 - A Collier The panel is composed of Camilla Long 
9390
9391(The Time), Kelvin McKenzie(Formerly The Sun), a labour MP, a Tory MP 
9392
9393and a UKIP MEP.
9394
9395The question was asked if the panel, 
9396"Is it ever right for junior doctors to strike"
9397
9398With the exception of the labour MP the panel criticised IA by junior 
9399
9400doctors.
9401
9402The audience (containing a large number of doctors) got angry and 
9403
9404shouted back at the panel and tried to close down a patient saying he 
9405
9406wanted 7DS.
9407
9408In short, it could have gone better, but hey, it could have gone worse 
9409
9410too!
941114/01/2016, 23:36 - A Collier Apologies for all the typos
941214/01/2016, 23:36 - M Redman: Thanks Andrew ?.
9413I'm glad the audience fought back.
941414/01/2016, 23:36 - A Yassaee: That's helpful Andrew.
941514/01/2016, 23:37 - A Yassaee: Was there a discussion about full 
9416
9417walkout IA?
941814/01/2016, 23:37 - A Collier Only briefly in Ms Long's response to the 
9419
9420question in that she felt it was "utterly disgraceful"
942114/01/2016, 23:41 - B Roberts: But didn't understand why it's 
9422
9423happening... I'm still waiting for the BBC to respond to my complaint 
9424
9425about misreporting, most of QT tonight has been unhelpful.
942614/01/2016, 23:45 - A Yassaee: Apart from there being two Murdoch 
9427
9428papers, the rest of the panel seems fairly composed? And their 
9429
9430positions aren't too surprising. I'll have to watch tomorrow but unless 
9431
9432the audience has been clapping every claim about IA being bad, I think 
9433
9434we're okay.
943514/01/2016, 23:46 - A Yassaee: (And probably doing better than we 
9436
9437anticipated after the first day of IA.)
943814/01/2016, 23:47 - A Yassaee: The disappointing thing this week was JC 
9439
9440not bringing it up in PMQs but I'm told he's been heavily bollocked for 
9441
9442it across the backbench spectrum.
944314/01/2016, 23:47 - A Collier Sadly the doctors didn't come across as 
9444
9445particularly reasonable. I don't think it's anything to particularly 
9446
9447worry about.
944814/01/2016, 23:48 - A Collier Don't worry, Tamal to the rescue on This 
9449
9450Week
945114/01/2016, 23:48 - L J Davis: This week now
945214/01/2016, 23:49 - L J Davis: And, yes, yellow cardi lady was put back 
9453
9454in her box by dimbleby. Uncomfortable when he told her to stop wagging 
9455
9456her finger at him...!
945714/01/2016, 23:49 - A Yassaee: It may be worth mentioning the point 
9458
9459about being unreasonable on the group? It doesn't have to be finger 
9460
9461pointing, just a reminder that it makes the sell a bit harder.
946214/01/2016, 23:50 - L J Davis: Oh, how? It's a group that believes that 
9463
9464EVERYONE who doesn't agree with them is WRONG!!!
946514/01/2016, 23:50 - L J Davis: So unreasonable doesn't figure
946614/01/2016, 23:51 - L J Davis: Interesting posts on mode of IA, tho
946714/01/2016, 23:52 - B Roberts: We need Conan to get on QT in Belfast 
9468
9469next week to be the voice of reason!
947014/01/2016, 23:52 - C Castles: Yeah, just noticed it was coming here
947114/01/2016, 23:52 - C Castles: How do I get tickets?
947214/01/2016, 23:53 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 1. The ratio of right wing to 
9473
9474left wing panelists of 4:1 is usual for BBC question time. 
94752. Jeremy corbyn not raising question in PMQ's or just generally being 
9476
9477more vocal on it is indeed a result of internal blocking frm the right 
9478
9479of the party (see my post just nw on facebk)
948014/01/2016, 23:53 - A Collier You request them on the BBC website
948114/01/2016, 23:55 - L J Davis: (Is it sad that I'm just a bit excited 
9482
9483that other people are getting engaged with QT...?)
948414/01/2016, 23:55 - C Castles: Only prob is we'll have local 
9485
9486politicians
948714/01/2016, 23:59 - L J Davis: Wow. Tamal v v v good
948814/01/2016, 23:59 - A Collier Well he's good for a baker 
9489:-P
949015/01/2016, 00:02 - A Collier I love the Labour MP!
949115/01/2016, 00:02 - A Yassaee: Yannis there's a difference between 
9492
9493endorsing strikes and probing government on its handling of the affair. 
9494
9495I'm referring to members on the right of the PLP who have criticised 
9496
9497him for not doing the latter.
949815/01/2016, 00:03 - A Yassaee: I think the former is more a concern for 
9499
9500those members who appeal to the centre ground.
950115/01/2016, 00:04 - L J Davis: Calm, reasonable, demolished Portillo 
9502
9503(which isn't easy). Very impressed.
950415/01/2016, 07:34 - B Roberts: JH on R4. Clearly has emerged from his 
9505
9506hiding to talk about NHS debt and couldn't resist shoe-horsing the IA 
9507
9508into his first sentence...
950915/01/2016, 07:35 - B Roberts: Shoe-horning, not "horsing", obviously!
951015/01/2016, 07:45 - A Collins: http://newsthump.com/2016/01/13/junior-
9511
9512doctors-strike-marred-by-poor-quality-chants/
9513
9514Think we need to up our game please.
951515/01/2016, 08:10 - L J Davis: Adam, I'm not sure junior Drs are 
9516
9517naturals at picketing. In bristol we kept jumping when people honked 
9518
9519their car horns (then we waved & cheered), and a couple of times we had 
9520
9521people come over and thrust their chests at us, saying "badge?" Which 
9522
9523took Drs by surprise... ??
952415/01/2016, 08:20 - D Rouse: Sorry I might have missed this but someone 
9525
9526was crying again
952715/01/2016, 08:21 - D Rouse: Why are these juniors breaking down in 
9528
9529floods of tears
953015/01/2016, 08:22 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
953115/01/2016, 08:23 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
953215/01/2016, 08:23 - D Rouse: Seems that Marie is jumping up and down 
9533
9534with excitement over being able to blame the BMA for question time
953515/01/2016, 08:29 - A Yassaee: Keir might have stumbled on the 
9536
9537soundbite actually - comparing this to MMR isn't the worst parallel. 
9538
9539Insufficient scientific rigour, blaming the profession for personal 
9540
9541gain, putting people's lives at risk etc.
954215/01/2016, 08:40 - L J Davis: Nope. Don't for gods sake bring up mmr. 
9543
9544There are *still* people who worry about a link. Plus it was a Dr who 
9545
9546put the bloody idea out there...
954715/01/2016, 08:42 - D Rouse: I personally think there was a response 
9548
9549which is the JDC voted no
955015/01/2016, 08:44 - A Yassaee: To Marie?
955115/01/2016, 08:45 - L J Davis: In or
955215/01/2016, 08:45 - L J Davis: On PR 
9553Oops ??
955415/01/2016, 08:46 - A Yassaee: Yeah sorry, what I meant
955515/01/2016, 08:47 - L J Davis: Tbh, I'm not sure what the guys calling 
9556
9557for independent pr think it will achieve. All the individuals out there 
9558
9559are doing pr constantly. And I'm not sure we can raise the profile any 
9560
9561higher...
956215/01/2016, 08:48 - L J Davis: & public broadly supportive...
956315/01/2016, 08:49 - A Yassaee: I think they want snappy soundbites when 
9564
9565the narrative goes against doctors
956615/01/2016, 08:49 - L J Davis: & it's a trade dispute. I'm not sure 
9567
9568tube drivers bother with pr
956915/01/2016, 08:51 - L J Davis: (Although I do get that this is 
9570
9571different)
957215/01/2016, 08:52 - L J Davis: Hmmm. Who do they want snappy sound 
9573
9574bites for?
957515/01/2016, 08:53 - A Sami: I am undecided on the PR agency
9576
9577I feel that they want it in a similar way that some of us prescribed a 
9578
9579bag of fluid overnight to keep the nurses happy.
9580
9581Using PR company will make these doctors feel good about themselves 
9582
9583that we are on a playing level field with the governmemt.
9584
9585Having said all that, our message is still not very clear, judging the 
9586
9587question  time programme yesterday.
958815/01/2016, 08:59 - A Sami: And not clear from the media coverage on 
9589
9590Tuesday, as the feedback we received from meeting locally. 
9591
9592Our message could be better for those who are outside the dispute.
9593
9594I found the comparison with lorry drivers on effective safeguards 
9595
9596resonate well with the public when we did MeetTheDrs.
9597
9598It is the plain time that is a struggle
959915/01/2016, 09:02 - L J Davis: Omg. They chased down the guy from 
9600
9601question time & filmed telling him the there are always Drs in ED. 
9602
9603they're right, but
960415/01/2016, 09:16 - A Collins: If we got an external pr company they'd 
9605
9606still be briefed by council (probably) and therefore still be wooly and 
9607
9608friendly, just like any comms not directly from our officers are. So I 
9609
9610don't think it'd help
961115/01/2016, 09:17 - D Rouse: I don't see how a PR company could stop 
9612
9613grass roots saying what they want in any way they want
961415/01/2016, 09:22 - A Sami: May be we need, collectively, come up with 
9615
9616a one line that we keep hammering down everytime any doctor is in the 
9617
9618media to get the message across.
9619
9620This is the same what Hunt did with his weekend rubbish. Kept repeating 
9621
9622everytime
962315/01/2016, 09:26 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Those continually calling for a 
9624
9625PR miracle are becoming almost religious in their fervour. Their 
9626
9627expectations of salvation through soundbite are misguided.
962815/01/2016, 09:41 - D Rouse: #fannis
962915/01/2016, 09:43 - L J Davis: They wouldn't like PR advice. It'd prob 
9630
9631say to pipe down a bit & let the negs crack on until we reach the next 
9632
9633IA...
963415/01/2016, 09:43 - D Rouse: You mean step out of the lime light.  
9635
9636Pfffff not guna happen
963715/01/2016, 09:45 - L J Davis: There is a risk of being seen as 
9638
9639overbearing and arrogant...
964015/01/2016, 10:11 - J Malawana: Yannis I gave you one Job. Can you do 
9641
9642that :-)
964315/01/2016, 10:13 - K Mohan: Uh-oh what's the job?
964415/01/2016, 10:15 - Y Gourtsouyannis: I think she's relaxed a bit. It's 
9645
9646others taking up the baton.
964715/01/2016, 10:54 - D Rouse: How many ppl have you given that job to 
9648
9649lol
965015/01/2016, 11:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Ha ha
965115/01/2016, 11:41 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
965215/01/2016, 11:42 - D Rouse: Right.... Seems sexist to me. Where's 
9653
9654mankind? :-P
965515/01/2016, 11:42 - D Rouse: And intersexkind
965615/01/2016, 11:48 - L J Davis: That's a bit... Weird?
965715/01/2016, 11:48 - L J Davis: Who is running the stall?
965815/01/2016, 11:56 - K Mohan: Cranberry flavoured tea called 
9659
9660"womankind". 
9661
9662"Because you know, all women have UTIs?"
966315/01/2016, 11:59 - A Yassaee: I might try some and feedback.
966415/01/2016, 12:11 - K Mohan: Please do. I really hope it helps any 
9665
9666potential cystitis you may have.
966715/01/2016, 12:12 - C Castles: I dont think cranberry flavouring has 
9668
9669any effect
967015/01/2016, 12:17 - A Collins: I've always wondered why arrash is so 
9671
9672tetchy... Must have been the cystitis all along :p
967315/01/2016, 12:45 - D Rouse: Lol
967415/01/2016, 14:41 - J Malawana: Exec time to start talking about why 
9675
967653% of the public have been scared by the hunt effect
967715/01/2016, 14:41 - J Malawana: A poll by BMG Research for the  
9678
9679Standard reveals that over half the public, 53 per cent, would feel 
9680
9681more concerned about being taken into  hospital on a Saturday or Sunday 
9682
9683 following the dispute, which has highlighted thousands of “excess 
9684
9685deaths” at weekends. The poll is the first evidence that the row is 
9686
9687damaging people’s faith in the NHS. Around 4,000 operations were 
9688
9689cancelled this week when junior doctors staged their first strike 
9690
9691against the Government’s attempt to impose a new seven-day contract.
969215/01/2016, 14:41 - J Malawana: 
9693
9694http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/hunt-i-m-busting-a-gut-to-keep-
9695
9696aes-open-during-junior-doctors-strikes-a3157501.html
969715/01/2016, 15:01 - T Crocker-Buque: Why aren't the consultants getting 
9698
9699cross about this line of argument - every time I read these doom and 
9700
9701chaos stories I think of the inference that consultants and sas docs  
9702
9703are entirely incapable of providing medical care in a hospital with 
9704
9705fewer juniors around.
970615/01/2016, 15:03 - D Rouse: So look. We need to offer a way out. Hunt 
9707
9708has started not talking about elective procedures 7/7 but has started 
9709
9710to yet again talk about parity of emergency care across 7/7
971115/01/2016, 15:03 - D Rouse: Surely this is our way out
971215/01/2016, 15:04 - D Rouse: Saying we will increase provision of 
9713
9714emergency care some how spinning that to the public
971515/01/2016, 15:05 - D Rouse: That what we need is good 7/7 emergency 
9716
9717care not seeing a ophthalmologist at 2000 on a Sunday
971815/01/2016, 15:05 - A Collins: But that would require our members to 
9719
9720work more ooh and weekends. And they've been vocal that they won't do 
9721
9722that. 
9723
9724
9725I'm not saying you're wrong, you know I agree with you on this argument 
9726
9727broadly, but they will fight it.
972815/01/2016, 15:06 - A Collins: If we were cynical we'd shift this away 
9729
9730from Jr docs and point out that other than nursing staff we're 
9731
9732proportionately the most well staffed profession at weekends...
973315/01/2016, 15:06 - D Rouse: No can't we spin that the money putting 
9734
9735consultants on elective lists etc would be better spent increasing the 
9736
9737number of juniors or paying them more for ooh
973815/01/2016, 15:07 - A Collins: Ooh
973915/01/2016, 15:07 - A Collins: Now that's interesting.
974015/01/2016, 15:07 - A Collins: The former, yes.
974115/01/2016, 15:07 - A Collins: The latter, I remember someone (?LJ) 
9742
9743saying that juniors time is not, and should not be, purchasable
974415/01/2016, 15:07 - A Collins: But that's definitely a line of argument 
9745
9746worth pursuing.
974715/01/2016, 15:08 - A Collins: Would be cheaper to shove a few more Jr 
9748
9749docs on the weekends than open ORs
975015/01/2016, 15:22 - A Yassaee: So to clarify, more weekends for more 
9751
9752pay?
975315/01/2016, 15:24 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Some of the the above points 
9754
9755(whilst very sensible) will not covince the public...let alone Hunt 
9756
9757because they do not address the underlying motivations for Hunt's 
9758
9759statements. The only way to counter Hunts '7d service' tactic for us to 
9760
9761be unafraid to turn this into an argument about poor health service 
9762
9763funding within the context of austerity and the drive  to stretch the 
9764
9765NHS into  unsustainability. His ultimate aim is privatisation. The Hunt 
9766
9767effect is not accidental on the part of Hunt...its is a purposeful 
9768
9769deployment of fear in the service of the aims described above  His plan 
9770
9771dovetails with the 'consultations' on alternative revenue streams and 
9772
9773NHS sustainability. The argument i have made above is very very 
9774
9775effective in achieving widespread penetration.
977615/01/2016, 15:27 - A Yassaee: On that point - am i correct in thinking 
9777
9778that the proposed changes to base pay and top-up payments shifts the 
9779
9780burden of salary from trust to deanery and this arguably, more 
9781
9782favourable for private takeovers of trusts?
978315/01/2016, 15:28 - L J Davis: Me, it was me on 'purchasable'
978415/01/2016, 15:29 - D Rouse: I genuinely think hunt is shifting from 
9785
9786his 24/7 all NHS to 24/7 emergency NHS
978715/01/2016, 15:30 - D Rouse: Just listening to him in last few days 
9788
9789it's all about weekend mortality
979015/01/2016, 15:30 - L J Davis: I'd be interested to know where the 
9791
9792money flows...
979315/01/2016, 15:31 - D Rouse: If we can get a good contract for juniors 
9794
9795paying them more whilst increasing numbers of ppl on shift lessening 
9796
9797the work and allowing hunt a way out of the hole he has duf preventing 
9798
9799an imposition
980015/01/2016, 15:31 - D Rouse: It doesn't sound a bad thing
980115/01/2016, 15:32 - D Rouse: And making us correct in saying to make it 
9802
9803safe you  need not to have tired doctors
980415/01/2016, 15:34 - D Rouse: Or you need more doctors
980515/01/2016, 15:42 - D Rouse: I agree that Yannis is right about hunts 
9806
9807plan and we should oppose the destruction of the NHS but fundamentally 
9808
9809this is about a contract
981015/01/2016, 15:47 - A Collins: How do we address rhe issue of wanting a 
9811
98127/7 emergency NHS now, without impacting routine 5/7 care, without 
9813
9814magicking new docs? I heard that contemptible animated scrotum from ex 
9815
9816of the Sun say "presumably we can just employ more Doctors"  last night 
9817
9818on QT and whilst I know he's being deliberatly facetious people 
9819
9820probably sort of think that?
982115/01/2016, 15:48 - A Collins: Sorry, I'm better at picking holes than 
9822
9823having original ideas to say...
982415/01/2016, 15:48 - A Collins: *today
982515/01/2016, 15:53 - A Yassaee: Maybe we should just release a statement 
9826
9827saying that we welcome Hunts proposals to improve weekend services and 
9828
9829look forward to working with him to recruit an extra few thousand 
9830
9831doctors.
983215/01/2016, 15:55 - A Collins: ??I like it
983315/01/2016, 16:08 - D Rouse: Look we are being increasingly reactionary 
9834
9835and on occasion shouty to everything that comes out. (Yes I am a shouty 
9836
9837person before anyone says it. I know this.) But I really think we need 
9838
9839to focus on strategy. 
9840
9841I think the first part of that is to listen. 
9842
9843Listen to hunt for a second without yelling back - What is it he is 
9844
9845saying they want. 
9846
9847(Yes I am sure this eventually about private sector but is he saying 
9848
9849that out loud to the public now?  No he isn't)
9850
9851Right now he needs to show a win.  He needs to come away from this with 
9852
9853something he is a wounded animal and he will eventually dig in and 
9854
9855impose - as that will be his win he used his ultimate weapon on us. 
9856
9857Now we could break that with prolonged painful I/a but in all our 
9858
9859hearts of hearts we know we will not get our membership to do this - 
9860
9861unless we look to other avenues such as rolling speciality strikes or 
9862
9863grades or some way of lessening the financial impact - but this may 
9864
9865reduce the over all effectiveness. 
9866
9867So given he needs a win - how can we let him perceive he has that 
9868
9869whilst actually getting the best we can for our doctors now in this 
9870
9871awful place we have found ourselves in. 
9872
9873I think we can use our central place in providing emergency care to do 
9874
9875this. 
9876
9877We need to figure out how. This in my opinion is what we need to debate 
9878
9879urgently.
988015/01/2016, 16:11 - A Sami: Extra doctors can come from abroad. A 
9881
9882simple change to immigration rules will solve this.
9883
98842008 change of rules and EWTD implementation in 2009 killed the market.
9885
9886Or is it already his plan to fill the posts with overseas doctors once 
9887
9888the new contract imposed and people started to leave?
9889
9890Let's face it, as bad as the new contract is, it will be much better 
9891
9892than Ts&Cs for doctors in Iraq, for example.
9893
9894(I say Iraq to avoid any confusion or challenges. I am sure other 
9895
9896countries' Ts&Cs are not better tyan the proposed contract)
989715/01/2016, 16:11 - D Rouse: And I wrote it all in one message.
989815/01/2016, 16:13 - A Sami: You are amazing, David. Excellent PDP 
9899
9900achieved ??
990115/01/2016, 16:15 - Y Gourtsouyannis: David (in response to ur msg a 
9902
9903few message ago) that is my very point... this is indeed about the 
9904
9905contract but the contract dispute is fundamentaly about economics. My 
9906
9907point has always NOT been to use the contract to make 'left wing 
9908
9909political argumets' but that political arguments must be deployed to 
9910
9911get the best cotract. I cannot stress this enough. We won't win this 
9912
9913through highly targeted points against hunts statistical 
9914
9915representations or through contorted soundbites. Hunt is continually 
9916
9917deploying all-encompassing ideological points...'mortality' 'manifesto 
9918
9919pledges' 'decency' we need to be countering in kind....otherwise we do 
9920
9921indeed simply come across as shouty pedants nitpicking over research 
9922
9923papers. I agree 100% with u that thats not a good look. Thats were the 
9924
9925'PR-lobby junior docs' are getting it wrong.
992615/01/2016, 16:15 - A Collier Well done David. Though of course you 
9927
9928needed the significant explanation because "how can we help Jeremy get 
9929
9930what he wants?" Is quite a difficult debate to sell to JDC ;-)
993115/01/2016, 16:21 - A Collier I believe Sun Tzu said something like 
9932
9933build your enemies a golden bridge on which to retreat
993415/01/2016, 16:22 - D Rouse: Hunt isn't speaking ideologically to the 
9935
9936public and press at the moment though!  If he were he would be raging 
9937
9938on about the private sector all the time. 
9939
9940He is simply saying 
9941
9942"7 day NHS why would you not want that!"
9943
9944Who was the most successful trade unionist of our time. 
9945
9946Bob Crow 
9947
9948And what did he want?
9949
9950Better conditions and more money for his workers.  
9951
9952And did he get it?
9953
9954Yes. 
9955
9956But he did it without bringing political ideology into it. He knew he 
9957
9958was in a strong position and ran with it. 
9959
9960He was a bloody communist but never used his political view point to do 
9961
9962battle. 
9963
9964And to a certain extent hunt is not.  He isn't raging on about private 
9965
9966sector etc etc he is simply saying. 
9967
9968Why wouldn't you want a safe 7 day emergency  NHS?
996915/01/2016, 16:25 - Y Gourtsouyannis: David u misunderstand 
9970
9971me....ideological language IS talking about the 7d NHS and NOT talking 
9972
9973about privatisation. That is precisely how ideology duoes the public.
997415/01/2016, 16:25 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The philosophy of ideology may b 
9975
9976a discussion for anothr forum tho...:-)
997715/01/2016, 16:29 - Y Gourtsouyannis: *dupes*
997815/01/2016, 16:29 - Y Gourtsouyannis: At wrk...sorry for misspelt rant!
997915/01/2016, 17:32 - L J Davis: It's not hunt. It's the treasury we need 
9980
9981to unlock. 
9982Hunt is just the unlucky/misguided front man.
998315/01/2016, 17:34 - L J Davis: I agree re:shouty. But it's taken a long 
9984
9985time for juniors to catch on. So they are just behind us in the curve 
9986
9987of reactions...
998815/01/2016, 17:38 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The Treasury
9989The Treasury
9990The Treasury
9991EXACTLY
999215/01/2016, 17:39 - D Rouse: Haha you want more money in the pot then 
9993
9994LJD
999515/01/2016, 18:29 - J Malawana: We need to play smart and really think 
9996
9997about the next move. We will seriously need to think on Monday about 
9998
9999the next couple of IA dates. Think about the impact of them and timing 
10000
10001of them. We have an active mandate now and we have public support as 
10002
10003well as the government on the back foot.
1000415/01/2016, 18:29 - J Malawana: So need to once again play smart with 
10005
10006this.
1000715/01/2016, 18:33 - A Yassaee: In short, I think the final day has the 
10008
10009potential to undo every positive piece of momentum we've  built  (both 
10010
10011publicly and with many of our more cautious colleagues). The only way I 
10012
10013can see it remotely playing well is if from now, we start defining the 
10014
10015days not by what is being withdrawn, but by what services are to be 
10016
10017offered. 
10018
10019I.e. junior delivered emergency care on day 2+3. Consultant delivered 
10020
10021emergency care 8-5 on day 4.
1002215/01/2016, 18:50 - J Malawana: Very good idea.
1002315/01/2016, 18:50 - J Malawana: Excellent idea in fact
1002415/01/2016, 18:56 - Y Gourtsouyannis: There's definitely something in 
10025
10026it. Nice one.
1002715/01/2016, 19:01 - C Castles: I like that spin
1002815/01/2016, 19:01 - J Malawana: Will start passing that around and talk 
10029
10030to the press team.
1003115/01/2016, 19:02 - J Malawana: By the way for all the shit about the 
10032
10033PR and press office, it's not correct when you look at the penetration 
10034
10035and evidence our messaging is penetrating.
1003615/01/2016, 19:02 - J Malawana: In fact for instance Tamal Ray 
10037
10038yesterday was briefed by Val in our press office. The messaging has 
10039
10040been consistent and the briefing notes have massively helped.
1004115/01/2016, 19:03 - J Malawana: So This whole north Thames thing is 
10042
10043massively disappointing.
1004415/01/2016, 19:12 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Don't get too disappointed in 
10045
10046North Thames. It is only a small number who push the whole 'the BMA is 
10047
10048a PR disaster' narrative. Other than that the whole of north thames 
10049
10050pulled off some pretty damn succesful IA and has some good activists 
10051
10052who see the politics beyond the PR.
1005315/01/2016, 19:13 - C Castles: Wasnt it estelle who proposed the motion 
10054
10055at jdc last time about it?
1005615/01/2016, 19:16 - K Mohan: I think Arrash's way of messaging our IA 
10057
10058is great. I also don't think we should be afraid of saying "our issue 
10059
10060is with the govt not with the public therefore we stick with emergency 
10061
10062care only". 
10063
10064I'm not saying we should do that necessarily but that we can get 
10065
10066ourselves back from it without being seen to give in.
1006715/01/2016, 19:31 - ?L Elliott: To be fair it wasn't just north Thames. 
10068
10069Mersey wanted one as well - at least the people who came to our 
10070
10071emergency meeting
1007215/01/2016, 19:44 - L J Davis: I agree with kitty. We could change the 
10073
10074mode of IA & say we've evaluated, etc... Esp if 2 days is very 
10075
10076effective...
1007715/01/2016, 19:45 - A Yassaee: So that would also be my preferred 
10078
10079option.
1008015/01/2016, 19:50 - A Yassaee: Also (semi-serious) if you wanted to 
10081
10082entertain a sectional strike, just get elective ortho to be on 
10083
10084indefinite strike for maximal hospital financial impact. And the rest 
10085
10086of the profession could chip in with the financial support to make it 
10087
10088last. Being on a current orthopaedic rotation, we're already paid to do 
10089
10090f-all anyway.
1009115/01/2016, 19:53 - K Mohan: Ha. When I was a house officer I did an 
10092
10093elective ortho job where we were so supernumerary that we got a rotaed 
10094
10095day off every week in addition to all leave etc and got paid 2A...
1009615/01/2016, 19:54 - A Yassaee: On wed i finished my ward round and jobs 
10097
10098by 09.40 (including a canteen breakfast). On Thursday i turned up at 
10099
1010011.00 and no one realised i was late.
1010115/01/2016, 19:57 - A Borbora: I doubt that BOTA would support a 
10102
10103indefinite loss of training
1010415/01/2016, 19:57 - E McCourt: I presume you either went to clinic or 
10105
10106theatre then Arrash? How awful to have a job where you can learn about 
10107
10108the actual specialty rather than tear your hair out being run into the 
10109
10110ground. Let's keep away from specialty-bashing people.
1011115/01/2016, 19:58 - B Roberts: No, don't change the model of IA! We 
10112
10113just need to counter all the misreporting and get the message out there 
10114
10115that non-juniors will be providing care.
1011615/01/2016, 19:59 - K Mohan: We've heard regionally that our juniors 
10117
10118are very split. At the most only half seem to support a full walkout 
10119
10120and that's in theory not even in practice. 
10121
10122A full walkout without everyone taking part isn't a full walkout.
1012315/01/2016, 19:59 - B Roberts: Looks like we're caving if we change. 
10124
10125Obviously we wouldn't withdraw care if we thought this would cause 
10126
10127harm. To use a Phil Banfield-ism, Jezza gets his consultant-led service 
10128
10129for a day and it would be good to see how he likes them apples.
1013015/01/2016, 20:02 - K Mohan: So if we want to do it we have about 50% 
10131
10132(prob more of our junior doctor population to do it in 4 weeks. 
10133
10134Also it's our big trusts (GSTT/kch/st Georges which are likely to have 
10135
10136issues and they will get adverse publicity if juniors go to work as 
10137
10138they are media-prominent.
10139
10140I like many other plan to represent our regional views but to date they 
10141
10142want no movement on plain/premium one position and don't want a full 
10143
10144walkout.
1014515/01/2016, 20:02 - A Yassaee: //A full walkout without everyone taking 
10146
10147part isn't a full walkout.//
10148
10149This.
1015015/01/2016, 20:03 - K Mohan: :) Kitty's soundbite of the day.
1015115/01/2016, 20:05 - A Yassaee: Have we briefed anyone in Labour about 
10152
10153the Hunt effect?
1015415/01/2016, 20:06 - L J Davis: It's not a jh 'win' if we've worked out 
10155
10156EM over several days is more effective... We look reasonable; we engage 
10157
10158some patient groups to support... Etc
10159
10160Plus. It's not JH we need to 'win' against. It's treasury & PM
1016115/01/2016, 20:08 - C Castles: What? Where did this proposal to change 
10162
10163IA come from? If this is a serious suggestion, should we not be 
10164
10165discussing it in a meeting?
1016615/01/2016, 20:09 - L J Davis: It's more of a discussion point, Conan. 
10167
10168But yes, I imagine it'll get properly debated...
1016915/01/2016, 20:10 - K Mohan: I presume we'll do that on Monday. I don't 
10170
10171think there's a proposal. But in south thames our reps contacted me 
10172
10173before I asked the wider question for people to ask junior doctors in 
10174
10175their trust.
1017615/01/2016, 20:10 - K Mohan: Juniors are discussing this as its obvs 
10177
10178been in the news after the poll this week.
1017915/01/2016, 20:11 - A Yassaee: Sorry to repost - Have we briefed anyone 
10180
10181in Labour about the Hunt effect?
1018215/01/2016, 20:20 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Kitty really has nailed a central 
10183
10184issue indeed...'a full walkout without everyone taking part isn't a 
10185
10186full walk out'.  Really important point. At the same time...in my view 
10187
10188a full walk out should remain somewhere in the threatened schedule of 
10189
10190IA. To remove it entirely would not be the right thing to do.
1019115/01/2016, 20:23 - A Yassaee: Can I ask what specifically the full 
10192
10193walkout achieves? Does it do additional financial damage to the trusts? 
10194
10195Is it to instill fear in DH? Or is it more to engage our ED colleagues? 
10196
10197I appreciate it may be a combo, if so an order would be helpful.
1019815/01/2016, 20:30 - K Mohan: That's a question I'm struggling to 
10199
10200answer, Arrash. My natural inclination is to say that it should remain 
10201
10202part of any "package". But the more I think about it, if we do move 
10203
10204from full walkout to emergency care on the 10th , I'm not sure what 
10205
10206would cause us to go back to it. Never say never though of course.
1020715/01/2016, 20:33 - A Yassaee: My gut is to agree about keeping it in 
10208
10209the arsenal which is why I think it's more about option 2 or 3. But I'm 
10210
10211at this stage still unable to intellectually understand what the 
10212
10213specific aim is. I can't work out how the cost-benefit works in our 
10214
10215favour, especially if it's been reiterated that imposition may have to 
10216
10217happen in the interest of patient safety.
1021815/01/2016, 20:38 - B Roberts: Why are we suddenly worried about 
10219
10220patient safety? There is no patient safety issue as there WILL be 
10221
10222doctors to look after patients! Are we being sucked in by all the spin?
1022315/01/2016, 20:40 - L J Davis: Nope; it's that the public view is SO 
10224
10225negative over full walk out
1022615/01/2016, 20:40 - K Mohan: I don't think it's quite true that there 
10227
10228is no patient safety issue, Beth.
1022915/01/2016, 20:41 - B Roberts: Because of media spin that we need to 
10230
10231counter!
1023215/01/2016, 20:42 - B Roberts: So why did we vote for it on the basis 
10233
10234that the patient safety issue was covered by non-juniors?
1023515/01/2016, 20:43 - K Mohan: I'm not sure what you mean.
1023615/01/2016, 20:43 - H Carter: To follow what Kitty said - I think we 
10237
10238need to look for opportunities to counter that spin which is what is 
10239
10240being suggested.
1024115/01/2016, 20:44 - K Mohan: The ability of the service to cope is 
10242
10243constantly changing. 
10244
10245However I think we come back to the issue that our members may not be 
10246
10247willing to take IA.
10248
10249I missed a chunk of this discussion whilst driving for several hours 
10250
10251this evening but I don't think anyone is saying we should necessarily 
10252
10253do anything suddenly but we need to discuss this. We need effective IA. 
10254
10255Which may be sustained over many months. 
10256
10257If fewer people take part in the full walkout than in emergency care 
10258
10259then that's not effective.
1026015/01/2016, 20:45 - C Castles: I thought the ipsos mori thing showed 
10261
10262there was still a majority of the public supported a full walk out, but 
10263
10264it was much smaller majority compared to emergency care
1026515/01/2016, 20:46 - A Yassaee: Public support is emergency care isnt 
10266
10267provided drops below 50%
1026815/01/2016, 20:46 - K Mohan: 44% in favour isn't good in my view.
1026915/01/2016, 20:46 - C Sheridan: I get you Bethan. When ive been asked 
10270
10271about it ive said it basically means Consultants and SAS drs, the most 
10272
10273experienced and highly trained folks will be providing emergency care, 
10274
10275and since its a weekday theres actually more folks around than the 
10276
10277weekend as well as all the support services, nursing and ahp staff that 
10278
10279dont work weekends like we normally do. So its actually better 
10280
10281resourced and ergo safer, with them focusing on emergency care (and 
10282
10283presumably pulling folks off elective work)
1028415/01/2016, 20:46 - A Yassaee: If*
1028515/01/2016, 20:47 - K Mohan: I'm much more concerned that my juniors 
10286
10287are telling me their colleagues won't take part.
1028815/01/2016, 20:49 - C Sheridan: I think they need reminded and 
10289
10290reassured that if consultants are all in and focus on emergency stuff 
10291
10292for the day, patients will be safe. Maybe the messaging could emphasise 
10293
10294that as it gets closer?
1029515/01/2016, 20:49 - L J Davis: I think I've always been fairly clear 
10296
10297that full walk out is a bad idea. 
10298
10299Finger wagging juniors on QT are not how to win over the public. I 
10300
10301think as this progresses we run the risk of loosing public support as 
10302
10303they get bored/turned off/think we're just being deliberately 
10304
10305obstructive.
10306
10307A full walk out *sounds bad* there's no way of spinning that.
1030815/01/2016, 20:50 - K Mohan: I think they understand that. The issue 
10309
10310isn't that they don't understand they just disagree.
1031115/01/2016, 20:50 - K Mohan: Sorry that was on Chris' point.
1031215/01/2016, 20:50 - C Castles: We've spent the last month arguing that 
10313
10314strike action won't affect patient care, the bmj article showed the 
10315
10316mortality rates during strikes in other countries. Do we not need to be 
10317
10318addressing these junior's concerns rather than panicking and changing 
10319
10320the IA?
1032115/01/2016, 20:51 - A Yassaee: Kitty, do you think it's at all to do 
10322
10323with their view of public perception? Or do you think it's entirely 
10324
10325separate from that?
1032615/01/2016, 20:51 - K Mohan: I'm not sure anyone is panicking.
1032715/01/2016, 20:51 - L J Davis: And it *sounds bad* to just about 
10328
10329everyone
1033015/01/2016, 20:51 - C Sheridan: Maybe Kitty. I know we all know that, 
10331
10332but people sometimes forget their common sense when they get caught up 
10333
10334in all the political rhetoric. A bit of projective identification from 
10335
10336Mr Hunt perhaps?
1033715/01/2016, 20:52 - L J Davis: (I'm not panicking; we've got ages 
10338
10339before we get to full walk out & Johann is going to deliver a spankly 
10340
10341good new contract before then! ??)
1034215/01/2016, 20:56 - C Castles: I thought the negs team was going to 
10343
10344deliver the contract ;-)
1034515/01/2016, 21:12 - A Sami: We need an Obs&Gynae reg to deliver the 
10346
10347contract first then the rest of the team to look after it!??
1034815/01/2016, 21:19 - K Mohan: Sorry phone died. In answer to Arrash's 
10349
10350question
10351
10352I think public perception is part of it. I also think many of them work 
10353
10354in over-stretched departments and cannot see how the service could be 
10355
10356safe.  And many worry that this is going to have to be sustained action 
10357
10358and think the govt is egging us on to have a full-walk out and for the 
10359
10360public/media to blast us and for junior participation to be low. 
10361
10362I think these are genuine concerns and it's disingenuous to think 
10363
10364people are just buying into spin. We've always known there is vocal 
10365
10366minority who are seemingly desperate for a full-walkout. I'm far more 
10367
10368concerned about the silent minority who's opinion we hardly ever hear. 
10369
10370Those who swapped to be on-call last Tuesday so they could be providing 
10371
10372emergency care and not hinder efforts of others but who don't believe 
10373
10374in IA at any cost and wouldn't go near a full-walkout.
1037515/01/2016, 21:27 - J Malawana: Hi all. 
10376
10377I don't care about anything apart from extracting the best contract. 
10378
10379Don't give a shit about anything else. My reasons for doing anything 
10380
10381are tactical nothing to do with worrying about otherside. I hope 
10382
10383everyone can at least have that belief after everything. My reason for 
10384
10385suggesting changing IA is tactical. We have a maximal pressure point at 
10386
10387the end of the month. So I don't want IA imminent as that's the excuse 
10388
10389for hunt to impose when actually he is imposing because if he doesn't 
10390
10391then he can't deliver his manifesto target.
1039215/01/2016, 21:27 - J Malawana: I want him to miss it as if he does 
10393
10394then that's handling failure.
1039515/01/2016, 21:27 - J Malawana: That's what Tories can't tolerate.
1039615/01/2016, 21:28 - J Malawana: If they fear losing public opinion and 
10397
10398they start looking amateurish then they will have to seriously think 
10399
10400whether this is worth pursuing.
1040115/01/2016, 21:28 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Interested to hear a bit more 
10402
10403detail about the maximal pressure point timings.
1040415/01/2016, 21:28 - J Malawana: I also want to let the messages we are 
10405
10406drumming into David dalton fully seep through.
1040715/01/2016, 21:29 - J Malawana: I also don't want him to impose ours 
10408
10409before he announces consultants.
1041015/01/2016, 21:30 - J Malawana: Because if they give consultants 
10411
10412Saturdays and demand it off us, that's basically giving old white Tory 
10413
10414voters Saturday's at the expense of young female (ethnic minority) 
10415
10416docs. Bad news for Tories.
1041715/01/2016, 21:30 - J Malawana: Also they are not delivering seven day 
10418
10419services as attacking juniors whilst not aligning with consultants who 
10420
10421actually are needed.
1042215/01/2016, 21:31 - J Malawana: We have told them they could offer to 
10423
10424buy Saturday off us for £700million.
1042515/01/2016, 21:31 - J Malawana: But they would need to make that offer. 
10426
10427Not expect it from us as we have no interest in the money.
1042815/01/2016, 21:32 - J Malawana: But if they seriously want Saturday it 
10429
10430will cost about £500-700million.
1043115/01/2016, 21:32 - J Malawana: We should probably have an exec 
10432
10433briefing to get everyone on page before Monday.
1043415/01/2016, 21:33 - A Sami: This is very helpful, Johann. I look 
10435
10436forward to the briefing
1043715/01/2016, 21:33 - J Malawana: They have made further offers today on 
10438
10439Saturday so the high water mark again.
1044015/01/2016, 21:34 - J Malawana: So we have got movement. I just need 
10441
10442the time pressure to build on them and to give David dalton enough time 
10443
10444to be useful to us.
1044515/01/2016, 21:37 - C Sheridan: Hi Kitty in regards to your point i 
10446
10447don't think its "disingenuous " to suggest some folks are caught up in 
10448
10449the scaremongering from certain media and politicians.  That would 
10450
10451imply im somehow trying to misrepresent that for gain (rather than just 
10452
10453believing that may be the case for some). I don't think it should be 
10454
10455taken off the table at this point though i understand the concern
1045615/01/2016, 21:38 - K Mohan: chris, i wasn't referring to you 
10457
10458specifically at all. i was talking generally.
1045915/01/2016, 21:39 - K Mohan: apols if came across that way. i'm just 
10460
10461trying to work this all through like we all are
1046215/01/2016, 21:40 - K Mohan: and i agree with you currently - i don't 
10463
10464think it should be taken off the table either. i'm just unclear when we 
10465
10466would use it.
1046715/01/2016, 21:41 - K Mohan: (if you mean removed from our arsenal or 
10468
10469whatever the phrase is)
1047015/01/2016, 21:44 - C Sheridan: What the movement on Saturday johann? 
10471
10472Kitty i dont want to be a malapropism pedant, but saying generally 
10473
10474people who suggest that are disingenuous doesn't strike me any better! 
10475
10476(And cheers, i didn't think it was personal). I know, "the best weapon 
10477
10478is the one you don't need to fire" or something (Iron Man is on? I 
10479
10480think that wisdom came from there!) these are not easy or certain 
10481
10482decisions and we do need the debate and to work through with each other 
10483
10484i agree
1048515/01/2016, 21:45 - K Mohan: i'm sorry i'm confused. prob time to bow 
10486
10487out of this discussion.
1048815/01/2016, 21:47 - C Sheridan: Sorry kitty wasn't trying to shut you 
10489
10490up. I'll shut up now!
1049115/01/2016, 21:49 - L J Davis: Johann. Timeframe is
10492Not negotiated contract would need 4-5mnths to implement? Imposition in 
10493
10494August?
1049515/01/2016, 21:52 - A Borbora: It's hard to know but estimates of time 
10496
10497to setup it systems, change rotas, pay roll etc would suggest that 
10498
10499there a cut off in early/mid Feb for implementation
1050015/01/2016, 21:55 - J Malawana: They have a deadline they are saying 
10501
10502for around next week. So probably as Aaron says beginning of Feb.
1050315/01/2016, 21:57 - J Malawana: So if we simply defer the IA and 
10504
10505reserve the right to IA if imposition goes ahead but whilst 
10506
10507constructive negotiations carrying on we are so focussed on negotiated 
10508
10509settlement we will leave the door open for talks etc etc
1051015/01/2016, 21:58 - M Redman: 1) arrash drank the 'womankind' tea 
10511
10512before he came up with his amazing earlier comments... Just sayin 
10513
105142) Johann - what do you mean 're buy saturdays off us? Do you mean just 
10515
10516pay them as antisocial working hours or further increase basic pay
1051715/01/2016, 21:58 - L J Davis: So delay the 2 days also?
1051815/01/2016, 21:58 - K Mohan: 3) would we need to reballot for that to 
10519
10520happen?
1052115/01/2016, 21:59 - J Malawana: I mean increase the whole envelope by 
10522
10523£500million which is about 15% pay rise.
1052415/01/2016, 22:00 - J Malawana: Actual pay rise. Not made up pay rise
1052515/01/2016, 22:00 - K Mohan: did you want we were going to discuss this 
10526
10527weekend, yoyo? if so when?
1052815/01/2016, 22:00 - J Malawana: There are other things we can do.
1052915/01/2016, 22:00 - K Mohan: (i may have made that up entirely)
1053015/01/2016, 22:00 - J Malawana: Shall we catch up in the morning?
1053115/01/2016, 22:01 - J Malawana: 7am? :-)
1053215/01/2016, 22:02 - A Yassaee: Does not compute.
1053315/01/2016, 22:02 - J Malawana: Ok. 9am.
1053415/01/2016, 22:02 - J Malawana: :-)
1053515/01/2016, 22:03 - A Sami: Make 10 and you can keep Saturdays
1053615/01/2016, 22:03 - A Sami: *make it
1053715/01/2016, 22:03 - J Malawana: But don't want to be later as have an 
10538
10539interview and then got to spend day with Noah as not seen him all week 
10540
10541:-)
1054215/01/2016, 22:03 - J Malawana: Interview is about 11.
1054315/01/2016, 22:03 - A Sami: Ok 09:00
1054415/01/2016, 22:03 - K Mohan: who's the interview with?
1054515/01/2016, 22:03 - J Malawana: Lbc I think. Not sure.
1054615/01/2016, 22:04 - K Mohan: (just being nosey - i don't really care).
1054715/01/2016, 22:04 - J Malawana: They call. I talk.
1054815/01/2016, 22:04 - J Malawana: No idea
1054915/01/2016, 22:04 - J Malawana: The guardian are trying to humanise me 
10550
10551- their words.
1055215/01/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: Apparently they seem angry that the 
10553
10554right wing media are attacking and making personal.
1055515/01/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: Same with buzzfeed with Petra and co
1055615/01/2016, 22:05 - L J Davis: Do they know you're not human?
1055715/01/2016, 22:05 - J Malawana: It's quite sweet
1055815/01/2016, 22:05 - K Mohan: i don't mind when (but after 9) tomorrow. 
10559
10560i'm in southsea at a wedding so as long as before 1230 works for me.
1056115/01/2016, 22:06 - K Mohan: but many people aren't really on-line (or 
10562
10563actively participating) in this now so it may be 3 of us tomorrow am.
1056415/01/2016, 22:07 - C Castles: I'm going to a third birthday party 
10565
10566tomorrow morning (unless it snows a lot again tonight) , so once again 
10567
10568I won't be able to make the meeting. 11 hours notice isnt ideal.
1056915/01/2016, 22:08 - J Malawana: Can do Sunday morning instead.
1057015/01/2016, 22:08 - J Malawana: These are briefings prior to JDC rather 
10571
10572than formal meetings.
1057315/01/2016, 22:08 - L J Davis: I can't do Sunday morning I'm afraid
1057415/01/2016, 22:09 - J Malawana: Just so you all have a chance to ask 
10575
10576questions. We are working to negs timetable and offer made this 
10577
10578afternoon so just so you're aware more than anything Conan
1057915/01/2016, 22:09 - K Mohan: do we (exec) know what the offer is? i may 
10580
10581have missed that earlier today if so.
1058215/01/2016, 22:10 - M Redman: I can do either
1058315/01/2016, 22:11 - K Mohan: tomorrow is better than me. morning before 
10584
10585going to a wedding is likely to be infinitely better than morning 
10586
10587after. but realistically can do either
1058815/01/2016, 22:11 - C Castles: Thanks Johann. If I can't make it, I'll 
10589
10590try and get an update from someone sure
1059115/01/2016, 22:16 - A Sami: Can I check which vc details are we using 
10592
10593tomorrow morning please?
1059415/01/2016, 22:36 - J Malawana: Offer is Saturday's plain time 7am-5pm 
10595
10596except if work 1:3 weekends or less when will be paid as premium time. 
10597
10598Weekday plain time 7am to 9pm.
1059915/01/2016, 22:36 - J Malawana: So about 15% of juniors are thought to 
10600
10601get Saturday's paid as premium time.
1060215/01/2016, 22:41 - A Sami: In a full shift system
106031:3 worked weekends is 1:6 rota (if oncall shifts are 12 hrs or so)
10604
10605In A&E, it has to be 1:9 as A&E shifts are days, lates and nights
10606
10607I don't how does it work for non-resident oncall rota
10608
10609Interesting.
10610
10611Now, how can we reach you via vc in the morning please?
1061215/01/2016, 22:42 - J Malawana: Has anyone got the details of the VC 
10613
10614from before.
1061515/01/2016, 22:42 - D Rouse: For when
1061615/01/2016, 22:43 - A Sami: <Media omitted>
1061715/01/2016, 22:43 - A Sami: This one?
1061815/01/2016, 22:44 - J Malawana: Yes let's use that one.
1061915/01/2016, 22:44 - J Malawana: Tomorrow 9am David.
1062015/01/2016, 22:44 - A Sami: David, Exec briefing (not official meeting) 
10621
10622at 09:00 tomorrow morning
1062315/01/2016, 22:49 - M Redman: ****9AM EXEC BRIEFING****
1062415/01/2016, 22:49 - M Redman: I'll spam text everyone.
1062515/01/2016, 22:52 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Am oncall this wkend. Will catch 
10626
10627up at some point.
1062815/01/2016, 22:52 - A Sami: Thank you, Melody
1062915/01/2016, 22:54 - M Redman: ????
1063015/01/2016, 22:55 - C Bell: Ok thanks
1063115/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: Not a question for now but Johann do you 
10632
10633know who works 1:3 or more full shift apart from em and some neonates?
1063415/01/2016, 22:58 - E McCourt: Acute medicine
1063515/01/2016, 22:58 - K Mohan: Really 1:3 or more?? Do got mean some 
10636
10637rotas are or across the board?!
1063815/01/2016, 22:59 - K Mohan: I'm shocked. That's changed over the last 
10639
10640few years of across the board.
1064115/01/2016, 22:59 - K Mohan: *If
1064215/01/2016, 22:59 - A Sami: Some ICUs do 1:6 but usually 1:8 or more
1064315/01/2016, 22:59 - E McCourt: Many of the Yorkshire rotas. Not sure 
10644
10645generally. Think Mersey and NW too.
1064615/01/2016, 23:00 - K Mohan: I think it's less frequent in London. Yes 
10647
10648I thought ICU tended to be generally 1:8.
1064915/01/2016, 23:01 - A Sami: 1:8 rota transelate to 1:4 worked weekends
1065015/01/2016, 23:01 - E McCourt: (As in Acute Assessment SHO Rotas, not 
10651
10652respiratory, gastro, COTE etc. incase I was confusing)
1065315/01/2016, 23:02 - K Mohan: No I understood what you're saying.
1065415/01/2016, 23:02 - D Rouse: ICU can be a mental rota
1065515/01/2016, 23:03 - K Mohan: I see that this could encourage less than 
10656
106571:6 rotas in order to avoid a "premium time penalty".
1065815/01/2016, 23:04 - K Mohan: I guess it helps with frequency but not 
10659
10660ibtensityZ
1066115/01/2016, 23:04 - K Mohan: Intensity
1066215/01/2016, 23:33 - B Roberts: Just catching up after driving across 
10663
10664most of south Wales this evening. Can't make tomorrow, I'm afraid, but 
10665
10666I'm sure there will be updates via here!
1066715/01/2016, 23:34 - B Roberts: Working for free tomorrow on compulsory 
10668
10669GP OOH shift, just sayin'...
1067015/01/2016, 23:34 - B Roberts: Final word from me, in a 9-5 elective 
10671
10672NHS, we already work way beyond plain time ;)
1067316/01/2016, 00:05 - C Castles: Hunt: I’m busting a gut to keep A&Es 
10674
10675open during doctors' strikes 
10676
10677http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/hunt-i-m-busting-a-gut-to-keep-
10678
10679aes-open-during-junior-doctors-strikes-a3157501.html
1068016/01/2016, 00:05 - C Castles: The bma refused to comment? Did we?
1068116/01/2016, 07:32 - J Malawana: Will check. But there's usually a 
10682
10683reason to do with angles and misquoting. That story is most helpful 
10684
10685because of the 53% hunt effect figure which we will now be using 
10686
10687everywhere.
1068816/01/2016, 08:01 - B Roberts: Are we planning on blaming irresponsible 
10689
10690reporting in the media for that 53%? Particularly the BBC who ought to 
10691
10692know better? Can't join this morning but hope you have a "fun" meeting. 
10693
10694I'm definitely more comfortable with the idea of considering changing 
10695
10696IA because of tactical reasons.
1069716/01/2016, 08:04 - ?L Elliott: #ImInWorkJeremy
10698Will get update from Aaron.
1069916/01/2016, 08:05 - B Roberts: By the way, is everyone discussing the 
10700
10701plain time question on their listservers?
1070216/01/2016, 08:06 - J Malawana: Apparently :-)
1070316/01/2016, 08:06 - J Malawana: It's not a bad thing to discuss on your 
10704
10705listservers. It's never the discussions I object to. It's the trying to 
10706
10707score points within JDC or wider
1070816/01/2016, 08:07 - J Malawana: At the expense of promoting unity.
1070916/01/2016, 08:08 - J Malawana: I did find it funny recently when got a 
10710
10711load of messages about people being seen as trying to improve their 
10712
10713personal position by attacking or undermining JDC. Our docs are a lot 
10714
10715more suspicious and perceptive politically that ever suspected.
1071616/01/2016, 08:09 - J Malawana: The council elections should be 
10717
10718fascinating :-)
1071916/01/2016, 08:09 - J Malawana: Good bit of BMA politicking
1072016/01/2016, 08:09 - J Malawana: I really had forgotten all the stuff 
10721
10722that happens in the BMA.
1072316/01/2016, 08:13 - B Roberts: I wasn't sure if we were meant to but 
10724
10725Tim's accidental e-mail was "interesting".
1072616/01/2016, 08:21 - A Borbora: <Media omitted>
1072716/01/2016, 08:23 - J Malawana: Fish and chips are the food of the 
10728
10729people.
1073016/01/2016, 08:32 - K Mohan: They missed a trick. They should have 
10731
10732called it #fannis.
1073316/01/2016, 08:59 - D Rouse: Everyone what's the phone in number
1073416/01/2016, 09:00 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
1073516/01/2016, 09:01 - D Rouse: I try to dial in and I get an American 
10736
10737woman asking be for the extension
1073816/01/2016, 09:01 - A Collier Sorry that I can't join you, sadly I'm on 
10739
10740call
1074116/01/2016, 09:02 - D Rouse: Any ideas how to over come. This American 
10742
10743automatic voice ?
1074416/01/2016, 09:05 - L J Davis: Scopia not working...
1074516/01/2016, 09:05 - D Tooth: We are in ljd
1074616/01/2016, 09:40 - L J Davis: Me too :)
1074716/01/2016, 10:03 - Z Greaves: Sorry missed the briefing - in the 
10748
10749middle of a house move!
1075016/01/2016, 10:18 - A Sami: Too much echo!
1075116/01/2016, 10:20 - A Borbora: Decrease the size of the RF pulse
1075216/01/2016, 10:20 - A Sami: OK!
1075316/01/2016, 10:25 - L Boyle: Briefing still going
1075416/01/2016, 10:25 - L Boyle: Sorry I have to leave now!
1075516/01/2016, 11:33 - J Malawana: Andy young is probably changing jobs. 
10756
10757Would someone like to take responsibility for collection/card etc.
1075816/01/2016, 11:49 - K Mohan: To give him on Monday? I'm away this 
10759
10760weekend so not able to do this time.
10761
10762Sheridan's was pretty easy to do last time though. Whoever does it just 
10763
10764cut and paste my email if helpful.
1076516/01/2016, 12:12 - J Malawana: Don't rush to volunteer
1076616/01/2016, 12:12 - J Malawana: :-)
1076716/01/2016, 12:12 - J Malawana: Someone please volunteer otherwise I 
10768
10769start assigning
1077016/01/2016, 12:12 - J Malawana: And no one likes that :-)
1077116/01/2016, 12:31 - L Boyle: I would but I'm going to be making this 
10772
10773video on Monday to advertise conference - will probably need about 30 
10774
10775takes
1077616/01/2016, 12:31 - L Boyle: Shitting it already.
1077716/01/2016, 12:34 - J Malawana: They have bought an autocue because I 
10778
10779was so rubbish at reading notes n
1078016/01/2016, 12:35 - J Malawana: So you can just type out what you want 
10781
10782to say and have it on the autocue.
1078316/01/2016, 13:05 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Am oncall all wkend. Sorry.
1078416/01/2016, 13:07 - L Boyle: Yeah but I'm hoping to do it on location
1078516/01/2016, 13:07 - L Boyle: ;)
1078616/01/2016, 13:12 - M Redman: If we're super stuck I could but would 
10787
10788really prefer someone else to as it's my last wknd to try to revise...
1078916/01/2016, 13:25 - B Roberts: Luke, you can get an autocue app for 
10790
10791free - DV Prompter.
1079216/01/2016, 13:26 - B Roberts: Oh, and did I mention that I can't make 
10793
10794Monday?
1079516/01/2016, 13:31 - K Mohan: If someone can organise the collection if 
10796
10797we're doing one, I'm happy to buy the stuff on Monday. I'm just away 
10798
10799this weekend (I'm messaging during the wedding I'm at so should prob 
10800
10801stop). :)
1080216/01/2016, 13:37 - C Bell: He's coming to MSC
1080316/01/2016, 13:51 - J Malawana: Nhse have put the offer in writing re 
10804
10805Saturday. I have forwarded it to the exec listserver as well as the 
10806
10807steering group listserver.
1080816/01/2016, 13:51 - J Malawana: It's confidential.
1080916/01/2016, 13:51 - J Malawana: Obviously.
1081016/01/2016, 13:55 - H Carter: Johann, does the agreement for this being 
10811
10812confidential extend to the government?
1081316/01/2016, 13:55 - H Carter: So we won't expect JH to start mentioning 
10814
10815some of these proposals?
1081616/01/2016, 14:00 - A Yassaee: "Shared on a similar basis woth 
10817
10818government and NHS employers"
1081916/01/2016, 14:00 - A Yassaee: Unless I've misread
1082016/01/2016, 14:01 - H Carter: Yes, indeed. I may be paranoid but that 
10821
10822isn't on the 'same' basis.
1082316/01/2016, 14:01 - A Yassaee: Ah gotcha.
1082416/01/2016, 14:01 - H Carter: But that's reassuring, none-the-less, 
10825
10826Arrash.
1082716/01/2016, 14:13 - A Yassaee: How close do we think we are to an 
10828
10829agreement on the guardian (before or after day 2)?
1083016/01/2016, 15:04 - M Redman: Also, the letter strongly implies that 
10831
10832the purpose is so more can work weekends for 'safety'. Was it discussed 
10833
10834about stretching an already thinly stretched service? That doesn't seem 
10835
10836to have been listed as a concern...
1083716/01/2016, 15:07 - M Redman: Not gonna be so safe if -
10838A) it worsens the recruitment and retention crisis (v likely when 
10839
10840survey and chats have shown us it's most important issue to juniors)
10841B) it means any less staff during week when juniors are already working 
10842
10843beyond rotad hours to finish ward jobs etc
1084416/01/2016, 15:34 - A Borbora: To play devil's advocate the BMA has 
10845
10846been warning of s recruitment and retention crisis at every medical 
10847
10848reform since 1911. The the employers have over 100 years of experience 
10849
10850at calling our bluff on it.
1085116/01/2016, 15:35 - L J Davis: Have you seen the state of GP?
1085216/01/2016, 15:36 - L J Davis: That really is in crisis. With GP 
10853
10854surgeries going under, pts not being able to register, etc...
1085516/01/2016, 15:40 - J Malawana: Yes. Very clear.
1085616/01/2016, 15:40 - J Malawana: But it's in writing so will be used 
10857
10858against us in future.
1085916/01/2016, 15:42 - B Roberts: Letter not working on my phone, will 
10860
10861read once I've finished working a shift for no money. On a Saturday...
1086216/01/2016, 15:49 - A Borbora: Solly Wand made similar complaints about 
10863
10864GP in the mid 50s...
1086516/01/2016, 15:51 - A Yassaee: And now we have fewer doctors per capita 
10866
10867than virtually any developed nation.
1086816/01/2016, 15:51 - M Redman: We also have the useful fy2 stats, I've 
10869
10870been using them all over the place and they're v helpful
1087116/01/2016, 15:53 - A Borbora: These arguments don't impress the 
10872
10873employers. They are useful for our comms but like I said they've heard 
10874
10875them for over a century.
1087616/01/2016, 15:53 - A Yassaee: It's not to convince the employer
1087716/01/2016, 16:05 - L J Davis: I can see nhse might not care about GP 
10878
10879numbers; but I'd be very depressed if DH aren't concerned.
1088016/01/2016, 16:05 - L J Davis: That would be +++shortsighted.
1088116/01/2016, 16:08 - A Yassaee: Ultimately we know that whatever hours 
10882
10883are agreed, it's meaningless without an enforcement mechanism we can 
10884
10885trust. And that's a line we can sell because it's relatively simple to 
10886
10887understand and the concept of tired doctors is a concern to the public. 
10888
10889So until that's agreed (hence I asked what the timeline eastimae was), 
10890
10891why can't we say something along the lines of "there are a number of 
10892
10893issues (including blah blah) still to resolve, but all of them are 
10894
10895meaningless without a solid mechanism to ensure they are enforced". And 
10896
10897make it clear that for now, we are entertaining proposals on changing 
10898
10899plain time but without a clear financial penalty, the proposals are 
10900
10901meaningless.
1090216/01/2016, 16:10 - A Yassaee: "We are happy to look at new proposals 
10903
10904for plain and premium time, but until we can have a guarantee on a 
10905
10906clear safeguard for working above the agreed hours, we won't know what 
10907
10908we'd be asking our junior doctors and medical students to sign up to"
1090916/01/2016, 16:56 - A Sami: Aarash
10910
10911I see what you have written.
10912
10913Johann has put it nicely this morning over the phone. If we did that 
10914
10915before the end of the month agreeing safeguards before resolving the 
10916
10917plaon time) will allow the government run with it and enforcing it 
10918
10919saying that we want more money and it would be diffficult for us to 
10920
10921defend.
10922
10923If we do the opposite, and leave the safeguards, finding a solution to 
10924
10925the plain time and considering whatever comsultants get, it will allow 
10926
10927us to maintain the moral high ground on this.
10928
10929Government will be challeneged to defend why they walked from negs 
10930
10931early Feb (due to time pressure for August) and we will be all over the 
10932
10933place shouting safegaurds not agreed, which is the oppoisye to what 
10934
10935happened last week.
10936
10937I fully support leaving the safegaurds as the last point to resolve as 
10938
10939it will the focus of why we are not going to be happy in the news 
10940
10941(beong the last to agree and it is not about the money)
1094216/01/2016, 17:01 - L J Davis: Fab explanation amjad ??
1094316/01/2016, 17:03 - A Sami: Only if it had less typos and missing 
10944
10945words! ??
1094616/01/2016, 17:03 - A Collins: Concerned about an early sentence in the 
10947
10948offer talking about vesting monies in the guardian... Given we have 
10949
10950essentially said (rightly, imo) that any monies sent to the guardian 
10951
10952are not a fine at all, as in any long term sense (which is more of a 
10953
10954worry than the occasional week of hellish hours) these monies would be 
10955
10956recycled, why are we considering that? 
10957
10958Otherwise the offer is certainly interesting. 
10959
10960
10961Finally, am I reading right that if you can't work consecutive 
10962
10963Saturdays that is a cap of 1:2?
10964
10965Sorry I'm not very active I'm away for the weekend, but truing to read 
10966
10967when I can :)
1096816/01/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Please
1096916/01/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Want to see a crisis
1097016/01/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Come and look at EM
1097116/01/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: When there's 25 ambulances to off load
1097216/01/2016, 17:11 - A Yassaee: Thanks that's helpful. I wasn't 
10973
10974suggesting we actually solve the issue first, more that we use it as 
10975
10976the public focus of disagreement. Hence why I wanted to know what the 
10977
10978timescale for solving it was -  as it was the top on the letter, wasn't 
10979
10980sure if they also saw it as a priority. 
10981
10982What's been suggested sounds sensible.
1098316/01/2016, 17:11 - C Castles: Yeah, I read the letter as saying we 
10984
10985have agreed that guardians are OK for dealing with the money
1098616/01/2016, 22:00 - D Rouse: Please don't bring Hippocrates into the 
10987
10988argument (i like to think he has been reincarnated as Johann)
10989
10990
10991WTF!?!?
1099216/01/2016, 22:02 - C Castles: ?
1099316/01/2016, 22:02 - D Rouse: A quote from the FBGoD
1099416/01/2016, 22:07 - C Castles: I'm not quite sure what to say
1099516/01/2016, 22:08 - C Castles: I dont look at that group. Are they 
10996
10997daft?
1099816/01/2016, 23:38 - H Carter: Has anybody seen this?
1099916/01/2016, 23:38 - H Carter: <Media omitted>
1100016/01/2016, 23:38 - H Carter: How very disturbing.
1100116/01/2016, 23:42 - J Malawana: Please don't pass this around.
1100216/01/2016, 23:42 - H Carter: I don't intend to
1100316/01/2016, 23:42 - H Carter: It was posted on a facebook group
1100416/01/2016, 23:42 - J Malawana: This is getting out of hand. Sarah 
11005
11006already finds this stuff really irritating. Lol
1100716/01/2016, 23:46 - C Bell: <3
1100817/01/2016, 08:14 - D Rouse: This is actually disturbing lol
1100917/01/2016, 08:15 - D Rouse: How well drag suits Johann
1101017/01/2016, 08:48 - A Borbora: Very bizarre. I refer to Conan's 
11011
11012question from last night.
1101317/01/2016, 09:40 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
1101417/01/2016, 09:47 - D Tooth: I love the way people think we have a 
11015
11016choice about the extra hours! 
11017I would have gladly been unbanded in hospital medicine to have that 
11018
11019time with family. And not much learning goes on either!!
1102017/01/2016, 09:49 - H Carter: Corbyn on Andrew Marr asked about 
11021
11022industrial action in general and managed to bridge to talk about junior 
11023
11024doctors. Was then asked if he supported secondary action by other NHS 
11025
11026workers which I don't think is legal now. He didn't give much of an 
11027
11028answer to that.
1102917/01/2016, 09:51 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
1103017/01/2016, 09:51 - D Rouse: FYI
1103117/01/2016, 09:51 - D Rouse: The times is saying hunt to be got rid of 
11032
11033and Johnson to replace (boris not his better younger brother)
1103417/01/2016, 10:01 - K Mohan: *IMPORTANT MESSAGE*
11035
11036Guys, I don't think anyone has volunteered to do the collection for 
11037
11038Andy yet. How about I try to simplify it:
11039
11040I'm about to go to gunwharf quay in Portsmouth. Shall I buy something 
11041
11042for about £100 (and a card for all JDC to sign) . There are 19 of us on 
11043
11044this whatsapp group not including Harry and Charlie. Would folk be 
11045
11046happy with contributing £5. 
11047
11048Could you let me know if not (it's not worry I'll try to find something 
11049
11050cheaper) as I'm still short on cash for Sheridan's collection and I'd 
11051
11052prefer people to say upfront if they don't want to contribute.
11053
11054If you'd prefer to transfer money my details are:
11055
1105696989335
11057515003
11058Dr K M Mohan
11059
11060If you have any ideas what to buy please let me know?
11061
11062(Can we keep bumping this post so everyone sees it?)
1106317/01/2016, 10:07 - L Boyle: Corbyn will bounce on any bandwagon, at 
11064
11065least he's being useful for us though
1106617/01/2016, 10:09 - D Tooth: Yes very happy with that kitty. Apologies 
11067
11068I couldn't. Gary's off to Hong Kong so on my own with boys and revision
1106917/01/2016, 10:09 - D Rouse: I will bring money to the meeting
1107017/01/2016, 10:09 - K Mohan: Right. I need some sort of affirmation to 
11071
11072do this or I'm going to leave it to the Officers. It's not my role 
11073
11074after all.
1107517/01/2016, 10:09 - L Boyle: Happy with that kitty
1107617/01/2016, 10:10 - D Tooth: That's 4 kitty incl you and I'm sure 
11077
11078Johann who suggested it, 5.
1107917/01/2016, 10:10 - A Collins: I'll contribute, sorry kitty!
1108017/01/2016, 10:10 - D Rouse: I can contribute I would sort it but 
11081
11082unless u want a giant toblerone from the airport lol
1108317/01/2016, 10:11 - L Boyle: Where is Andy moving to?
1108417/01/2016, 10:12 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
1108517/01/2016, 10:13 - J Malawana: 
11086
11087https://www.dropbox.com/s/qgez1ilbjsvna4t/20160117_The%20Sunday
11088
11089%20Times_Reg-null_Sup-null_Ed-03_108415317.pdf?dl=0
1109017/01/2016, 10:13 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
1109117/01/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: Already sent that one
1109217/01/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: Beat ya to t
1109317/01/2016, 10:14 - D Rouse: :-P
1109417/01/2016, 10:15 - Z Greaves: That sounds great yes thanks kitty :)
1109517/01/2016, 10:17 - K Mohan: (I meant more affirmation that no one else 
11096
11097was organising it). Lol.
11098
11099Anyway, seeing I have no idea what to buy I'll have a quick scout 
11100
11101around and let you know what I buy. If I can't find anything we'll need 
11102
11103to think again.
1110417/01/2016, 10:20 - D Tooth: Oh sorry kitty 
11105Cuff links? Does he wear them?
1110617/01/2016, 10:24 - M Redman: Thanks kitty. That's really kind of you. 
11107
11108Am happy with that. 
11109
11110I don't know Andy very well but cufflinks always good shout. Wine & 
11111
11112chocs. Aftershave. Voucher for somewhere like Harrods or Selfridges or 
11113
11114HoF?
1111517/01/2016, 10:26 - K Mohan: Ok next question. Maybe directed towards 
11116
11117the officers. 
11118
11119Is it fine to just get Andy something when we are effectively losing 
11120
11121all our secretariat? (The others will still be kind of working with 
11122
11123us). I think it is my maybe I'll get some chocs for them all?
1112417/01/2016, 10:27 - L Boyle: Give them a big Lord Sugar team treat???
1112517/01/2016, 10:27 - L Boyle: Don't do that
1112617/01/2016, 10:27 - H Carter: A nice mention of the hunt effect in that 
11127
11128piece.
1112917/01/2016, 10:28 - K Mohan: :)
1113017/01/2016, 10:28 - K Mohan: Anyway. I'll report back later. :)
1113117/01/2016, 10:28 - D Tooth: Good point kitty, weird times
1113217/01/2016, 10:32 - M Redman: Who's staying?
1113317/01/2016, 10:32 - M Redman: We could get them tickets to do the 
11134
11135Crystal maze together ??????
1113617/01/2016, 10:34 - M Redman: Sam will be sticking around for a while 
11137
11138cos of contracts won't he?
11139We should get Rob something from E&T if he's going tm.
1114017/01/2016, 10:35 - K Mohan: They aren't specifically with us afaik but 
11141
11142we'll still be working closely with Sam and Josephine for contracts and 
11143
11144rob in E&T. Not sure about dan.
1114517/01/2016, 10:35 - J Malawana: They are all sticking around. Just not 
11146
11147quite JDC secretariat. I have to say we need to make a big fuss if 
11148
11149there is any slippage
1115017/01/2016, 10:35 - C Castles: I'm happy to contribute. Do we know 
11151
11152who's going to be secretary now?
1115317/01/2016, 10:35 - K Mohan: Ok. Maybe we can just announce it as such. 
11154
11155:)
1115617/01/2016, 10:36 - J Malawana: It's a stupid system they are going to. 
11157
11158It centralises power with the directors.
1115917/01/2016, 10:36 - J Malawana: And frankly that's not a helpful 
11160
11161scenario.
1116217/01/2016, 10:36 - K Mohan: I stood for the board of directors and 
11163
11164just lost out to Lewis I think. Maybe I'll stand again.
1116517/01/2016, 10:52 - L Boyle: Rob is staying I think & he's continuing 
11166
11167with conference this year, thank God - he's great
1116817/01/2016, 11:45 - A Borbora: Mirembe who is based in the Edinburgh 
11169
11170office is taking over as JDC committee secretary 
11171
11172Rob will no longer be exclusive to JDC but is likely to continue on JDC 
11173
11174workstreams even post re-config. I forget the name of the unit he is 
11175
11176working in but it will cover professional development for all branches 
11177
11178of practice. 
11179
11180Josephine, Dan and Sam are moving to a "terms and conditions team" 
11181
11182headed by John Maingay. Hillary Lloyd is the director of policy and is 
11183
11184the boss of this. 
11185They are likely to continue on JDC work for the foreseeable future.
1118617/01/2016, 12:00 - T Crocker-Buque: Mirembe is moving from looking 
11187
11188after public health - and we're gutted at our loss. She'll be excellent 
11189
11190for JDC.
1119117/01/2016, 12:02 - H Carter: Prior to her role with the public health 
11192
11193team I worked with her closely in my first term as MSC co-chair a 
11194
11195couple of years ago. She was a loss to us then. JDC are lucky.
1119617/01/2016, 12:14 - D Rouse: Is she moving to london or continuing in 
11197
11198Edinburgh?
1119917/01/2016, 12:28 - J Malawana: She is coming home to JDC. It's where 
11200
11201she when I last was on JDC :-)
1120217/01/2016, 12:28 - J Malawana: Poor Mirembe.
1120317/01/2016, 12:49 - J Malawana: Just asked who is in charge in our 
11204
11205house, Noah, daddy or mummy. Confidently he stated Noah.
1120617/01/2016, 12:49 - J Malawana: That speaks volumes for authority.
1120717/01/2016, 12:54 - L J Davis: Never ask children who is in charge! 
11208
11209They are much too honest!
1121017/01/2016, 12:55 - L J Davis: Happy to contribute to andys gift, 
11211
11212kitty! Thank you for organising
1121317/01/2016, 13:10 - A Sami: I am in Kitty
1121417/01/2016, 13:11 - C Castles: That sounds rather naughty
1121517/01/2016, 13:12 - L J Davis: I had to read that several times, 
11216
11217Conan!!!
1121817/01/2016, 13:17 - D Rouse: <Media omitted>
1121917/01/2016, 13:17 - D Rouse: 14 ways to die apparently
1122017/01/2016, 13:18 - D Tooth: 14 allergies
1122117/01/2016, 13:26 - D Rouse: Haha. I prefer my translation
1122217/01/2016, 13:34 - D Tooth: Sensationalist!!
1122317/01/2016, 13:38 - A Sami: Dear all
11224
11225I just wanted to let you know that I might VC tomorrow if not getting 
11226
11227well enough to travel to London.
11228
11229Amjad
1123017/01/2016, 13:40 - D Rouse: Hope nothing too bad and you are on the 
11231
11232mend soo
1123317/01/2016, 13:40 - D Rouse: Soon
1123417/01/2016, 13:42 - D Tooth: Feel better xx
1123517/01/2016, 13:50 - A Sami: Thank you, both
1123617/01/2016, 13:56 - A Collins: Obviously seen a gap in leadership and a 
11237
11238lack of direction for the team. He must have excellent situational 
11239
11240awareness and has stepped up! Maybe when someone more confident comes 
11241
11242along they can take over but since he's a fearless wee man (judging by 
11243
11244the rally in London!) that may be some time...
1124517/01/2016, 13:59 - D Tooth: Who are you talking about , boris?
1124617/01/2016, 13:59 - J Malawana: Lol
1124717/01/2016, 13:59 - J Malawana: Was just wondering same. Absent 
11248
11249mindedness
1125017/01/2016, 14:00 - C Castles: He's trying to big himself up I think
1125117/01/2016, 14:00 - C Castles: And talking about himself in the third 
11252
11253person
1125417/01/2016, 14:01 - D Tooth: Or Johann!?!
1125517/01/2016, 14:02 - C Castles: Now I'm not sure if you're being serious 
11256
11257or not Donna
1125817/01/2016, 14:05 - M Redman: Noah!*!
1125917/01/2016, 14:05 - C Castles: Haha
1126017/01/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: <Media omitted>
1126117/01/2016, 14:07 - J Malawana: Just for you melody. I reckon him and 
11262
11263Collins and Luke would actually have a lot to talk about.
1126417/01/2016, 14:09 - A Collins: Aww!
1126517/01/2016, 14:10 - M Redman: Omd such a cutie??????.
11266
11267He's painting a picture of jo-hulk by the looks of things
1126817/01/2016, 14:21 - D Tooth: Johann!! You don't have a cover on that 
11269
11270table...are you out of your mind!!!
1127117/01/2016, 14:23 - J Malawana: It's glass.
1127217/01/2016, 14:23 - J Malawana: And who cares. It's Noah
1127317/01/2016, 14:23 - C Castles: So practical Donna
1127417/01/2016, 14:23 - J Malawana: The glass can be bought again as I had 
11275
11276it made for the table.
1127717/01/2016, 14:25 - J Malawana: I kinda like it when he messes stuff up 
11278
11279as its then got the mark of Noah :-)
1128017/01/2016, 14:25 - J Malawana: Sarah. Not so keen.
1128117/01/2016, 14:25 - J Malawana: :-)
1128217/01/2016, 14:31 - B Roberts: Lavish junior doctor spends limitless 
11283
11284amount of cash on glass coffee tables and totally disregards planet at 
11285
11286the same time...!
1128717/01/2016, 14:31 - B Roberts: If the Sun ever found out.
1128817/01/2016, 14:45 - C Castles: Junior doctors replace glass ceiling 
11289
11290with glass tables
1129117/01/2016, 14:56 - J Malawana: Lol
1129217/01/2016, 14:56 - J Malawana: There's a place in Hainault that will 
11293
11294make you glass of any shape or size.
1129517/01/2016, 14:56 - J Malawana: I have never pretended to be anything 
11296
11297but a champagne socialist.
1129817/01/2016, 14:57 - J Malawana: Ideally a really fine quality 
11299
11300champagne.
1130117/01/2016, 14:57 - J Malawana: None of this Moët rubbish.
1130217/01/2016, 14:58 - A Collins: ????
1130317/01/2016, 15:11 - L J Davis: I rather like verve clicquot.
11304
11305But I never claimed to be a socialist! ??
1130617/01/2016, 15:17 - J Malawana: Lol
1130717/01/2016, 15:17 - J Malawana: #fannis is probably crying
1130817/01/2016, 15:17 - A Collins: I have to say I'm with Aaron on Bolly
1130917/01/2016, 15:20 - J Malawana: Wood or llinger
1131017/01/2016, 15:28 - A Borbora: Both. Can certainly imagine Adam getting 
11311
11312down to some Bhangra beats
1131317/01/2016, 15:29 - K Mohan: Ruinart is the way forward re champagne. I 
11314
11315learnt that from Tom Waite.
1131617/01/2016, 15:35 - Y Gourtsouyannis: One can quaff champagne and 
11317
11318remain a socialist....don't worry Johann. Champagne socialists in my 
11319
11320view are those who talk about politics and industrial struggle from the 
11321
11322comfort of their armchair (and vote for the SWP or Socialist Party to 
11323
11324show how 'pure' they are) whilst doing precisely nothing for the the 
11325
11326cause. U are the opposite...u dnt think ur a socialist but ur doing 
11327
11328more for social justice than many self-proclaimed 
11329
11330socialists...regardless of your bevarage of choice.
1133117/01/2016, 15:36 - M Redman: Daw #fannis. 
11332
11333Omd just listened to the LBC interview ... Ridiculous!!!!
11334
11335Does Collier get this kind of grief on there?!
1133617/01/2016, 15:40 - ?L Elliott: Even with this group muted it's 
11337
11338annoying... Filtering through what's useful and what's not (most of 
11339
11340it!).
1134117/01/2016, 15:47 - ?L Elliott: Sorry guys but filtering through 200 
11342
11343messages on a daily basis isn't ideal!
1134417/01/2016, 15:52 - M Redman: sorry, Lottie, I'll try to reduce my spam 
11345
11346from now on. ?
11347
11348I'm sure the rest of exec can presume which points I'd mention #fannis 
11349
11350or how adorable Noah is ??
1135117/01/2016, 16:07 - K Mohan: NOT SPAM:
11352
11353So guys. I've bought the stuff for Andy and the Secretariat.
11354
11355There was an mix of "not-very-Andy" shops so I bought:
11356
11357- Some Paul smith cufflinks (they are actually really quite nice)
11358- a l'occitaine l'homme soap set
11359- a molton brown candle that smells AMAZING. I only by candles that 
11360
11361smell of fire-wood as some of you know. 
11362
11363I also bought (500g of Lindor chocolates for the secretariat.
11364
11365
11366I'm going to buy two cards one for Andy and one for the secretariat as 
11367
11368a whole. 
11369
11370And maybe a couple more small treats for the other secretariat. 
11371
11372And I think that'll take me to £100! 
11373
11374So can you all either transfer £5 to my account:
11375
1137696989335
11377515003
11378Dr. K Mohan
11379
11380Or give me £5 tomorrow. Please don't presume I'll have change.
1138117/01/2016, 16:10 - K Mohan: STILL NOT SPAM:
11382
11383If you transfer money could you drop me a message so I know.
11384
11385(Directly not on this message list please).
1138617/01/2016, 17:00 - L Boyle: Hahaha, Johann if you & Sarah fancy a 
11387
11388weekend away or a break or whatever - Collins & I will have Noah for 
11389
11390the wkd
1139117/01/2016, 17:01 - J Malawana: Who exactly would be looking after who?
1139217/01/2016, 17:01 - L Boyle: WHAT DID UNCLE LUKE GIVE YOU TO DRINK?? 
11393
11394WHAT WORDS DID HE TEACH YOU???
1139517/01/2016, 17:01 - L Boyle: ?? - can just imagine your face
1139617/01/2016, 17:02 - L Boyle: Nah I've very responsible really ??
1139717/01/2016, 17:02 - L Boyle: Jokes aside - I need to borrow the 
11398
11399Malawana lapel pin for this Conf vid tm
1140017/01/2016, 17:05 - J Malawana: Have you earned it?
1140117/01/2016, 17:05 - L Boyle: Wait til you see the acting performance
1140217/01/2016, 17:05 - L Boyle: You'll wonder why u asked.
1140317/01/2016, 17:06 - L Boyle: I'll never live it down
1140417/01/2016, 17:06 - J Malawana: Sarah says to never turn down 
11405
11406babysitting.
1140717/01/2016, 17:07 - J Malawana: So apparently after I described you 
11408
11409two, even then she is willing to leave her first born with you two.
1141017/01/2016, 17:07 - J Malawana: Jeez.
1141117/01/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: I am worried about the sun headline 
11412
11413starting with. 
11414
11415Secret BMA Executive Comms Group Discusses What is Preferred Champagne 
11416
11417brand.
1141817/01/2016, 17:09 - D Rouse: Mohan endorses expensive candles and cuff 
11419
11420links.
1142117/01/2016, 17:10 - L Boyle: At least Sarah has some faith
1142217/01/2016, 17:10 - L Boyle: <Media omitted>
1142317/01/2016, 17:10 - L Boyle: I bought some props for the vid tm
1142417/01/2016, 17:11 - D Rouse: If offer to be pictured with it but my 
11425
11426Agent says don't be pictures with discounted beverage s
1142717/01/2016, 17:12 - L Boyle: Fair enough
1142817/01/2016, 17:18 - J Malawana: #fannis what is the opposite of a 
11429
11430champagne socialist? Is that a white lightning libertarian?
1143117/01/2016, 17:21 - Y Gourtsouyannis: The opposite of a champagne 
11432
11433socialist is a lentil-eating, sandal-wearing, bob dylan loving Tory!
1143417/01/2016, 17:24 - K Mohan: Guys, is anyone down tonight and free at 
11435
114368am to record an interview with French radio. They want to do it in 
11437
11438person rather then down the phone. 
11439
11440BMA Comms have approved it. Jeeves was going to do it over this weekend 
11441
11442as I've been away but not sure what's happened. The guy has a flight at 
11443
114440920 hence the early time.
1144517/01/2016, 17:36 - C Castles: I love bob Dylan. And lentils
1144617/01/2016, 17:43 - K Mohan: Aaron's doing the interview. Thanks to 
11447
11448those who text me.
1144917/01/2016, 17:43 - E McCourt: In French?!
1145017/01/2016, 17:44 - E McCourt: (Will give you cash tomorrow FYI)
1145117/01/2016, 17:44 - A Borbora: Oi Madame
1145217/01/2016, 17:44 - E McCourt: Oi? Is that scouse for Oui?
1145317/01/2016, 17:45 - A Borbora: Je suis un oeuf
1145417/01/2016, 17:45 - C Castles: J'adore bob Dylan
1145517/01/2016, 18:03 - A Collins: Luke if Lord Malawana isn't about I've 
11456
11457got a pin I can lend. For a hefty deposit
1145817/01/2016, 20:36 - A Yassaee: Guys, is everyone okay? I've been out 
11459
11460for 2 and a half hours and there's not a single message from this 
11461
11462thread.
1146317/01/2016, 20:36 - E McCourt: I had wondered the same. When I'm at 
11464
11465work 300+ messages. When I'm done... Zero.
1146617/01/2016, 20:37 - E McCourt: Did the apocalypse happen and only Hull 
11467
11468and Arrash are left?
1146917/01/2016, 20:37 - A Yassaee: That would be an unfortunate fate for 
11470
11471Hull.
1147217/01/2016, 21:11 - D Tooth: London calling!
1147317/01/2016, 21:29 - C Castles: Where are you?
1147417/01/2016, 21:33 - B Roberts: Sent a reply to the steering group 
11475
11476listserver about the Dalton letter. It might sound a bit ranty but just 
11477
11478wanted to make my feelings clear as I can't make tomorrow. The last 
11479
11480line is my favourite.
1148117/01/2016, 21:33 - B Roberts: Cardiff has also survived the 
11482
11483apocalypse!
1148417/01/2016, 21:49 - K Mohan: I was just booking some BA flights as I 
11485
11486read that Beth. :)
1148717/01/2016, 21:50 - B Roberts: Presumably you can't fly to Peru for 
11488
1148949p...
1149017/01/2016, 21:51 - J Malawana: What's hull?
1149117/01/2016, 21:51 - A Borbora: I think it makes the point well. There 
11492
11493is universal opposition to Saturdays as plain time.
1149417/01/2016, 21:52 - K Mohan: No but you can fly to Madrid for £100 
11495
11496return which is what I needed to do.
1149717/01/2016, 21:55 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
1149817/01/2016, 21:59 - B Roberts: My non-medical husband reckons it would 
11499
11500be the end of society as we know it if Saturdays became a normal 
11501
11502working day. Retail doesn't count as they have to capitalise on people 
11503
11504using their weekend downtime to go shopping. I tried to think of a 
11505
11506fancier airline but thought I'd keep it patriotic and use BA!
1150717/01/2016, 22:00 - B Roberts: Did you offset your carbon, Kit?
1150817/01/2016, 22:05 - A Yassaee: They made the societal point on QT back 
11509
11510when the issue first came to public attention. It was pretty well 
11511
11512received.
1151317/01/2016, 22:15 - K Mohan: Of course, Bethy. :)
1151417/01/2016, 22:17 - A Borbora: Yeah have to say that very few people 
11515
11516think that Saturdays are normal working days. They believe we should be 
11517
11518paid premium time for them.
1151917/01/2016, 22:35 - M Redman: Yeah and rcpch letter confirmed their 
11520
11521trainees believe Saturdays not plain time too. Also childcare costs 
11522
11523increase as well as aforementioned arguments.
11524
11525I'm also concerned with acknowledging those working 1 in 3 Saturdays 
11526
11527rotas as then being premium time.
11528Either Saturdays are more valuable or they're not.
11529 but also, if it we then went and agreed that, then we all know rotas 
11530
11531would be worked out to be 1 in 3.5 saturdays or whatever to avoid 
11532
11533paying premium rate. then they could feasibly leave the odd Saturday to 
11534
11535be vacant for locum, bc cheaper than a full Rota.
1153617/01/2016, 22:37 - M Redman: Re Sundays being 33%... can anyone 
11537
11538explain to me how that compares to where we are now...
1153917/01/2016, 22:37 - K Mohan: Entirely agree, Melody. That's the point I 
11540
11541was trying to make on the VC yesterday. It's only currently that 15% 
11542
11543trainees work those rotas. If I was designing the new system I'd make 
11544
11545all but very few fell below 1:3
1154617/01/2016, 22:38 - K Mohan: (Or above 1:3) however you say it.
1154717/01/2016, 22:38 - J Malawana: Exactly
1154817/01/2016, 22:38 - A Borbora: NHSE's rationale was that it would stop 
11549
11550trusts rostering people to 1:3 as there'd be a cost in doing so. 
11551
11552However, they doesn't stop them rostering to 1:4 etc
1155317/01/2016, 22:38 - J Malawana: It totally screws maternity and Paeds
1155417/01/2016, 22:39 - J Malawana: It makes them go from 1:5/6 to 1:3.5.
1155517/01/2016, 22:40 - J Malawana: That's what I would do. Have run rotas 
11556
11557in most jobs I worked. And knowing how short we are it would give hr 
11558
11559the ability to totally screw juniors.
1156017/01/2016, 22:40 - L Boyle: Saturday is more important to me than 
11561
11562Sunday. Not sure many people are of that view
1156317/01/2016, 22:40 - J Malawana: Hang over from Friday?
1156417/01/2016, 22:40 - K Mohan: What would happen to the money saver when 
11565
11566re-rostering happens. Presumably it would be lost.
1156717/01/2016, 22:40 - L Boyle: But less things open on Sunday etc it's 
11568
11569not as bad being stuck in work when there's less to do
1157017/01/2016, 22:40 - K Mohan: Saved.
1157117/01/2016, 22:40 - J Malawana: Always worse than Saturday one?
1157217/01/2016, 22:40 - J Malawana: :-)
1157317/01/2016, 22:41 - L Boyle: Cheeky *******Different if we were in the 
11574
11575US & it was all go on a Sunday
1157617/01/2016, 22:41 - L Boyle: ;)
1157717/01/2016, 22:41 - K Mohan: It's ok Luke. Just get your revenge on 
11578
11579Yoyo at conference. He'll be at your mercy on the stage.
1158017/01/2016, 22:42 - L Boyle: Hahaha
1158117/01/2016, 22:42 - L Boyle: He has the wrong end of the stick about 
11582
11583me!
1158417/01/2016, 22:42 - K Mohan: That's re best bit of chairing conference 
11585
11586(says she who did it twice).
1158717/01/2016, 22:42 - L Boyle: I look forward to it!
1158817/01/2016, 22:42 - K Mohan: ;)
1158917/01/2016, 22:43 - L Boyle: Btw folks - I have the deets re conference 
11590
11591venue & dinner venue but I want to see the contracts w my own eyes mane 
11592
11593before fanfare announcement
1159417/01/2016, 22:44 - L Boyle: Will update JDC tm though I'm sure if the 
11595
11596boss affords me 5min during the mtg
1159717/01/2016, 22:44 - K Mohan: I'm sad to miss conference. It's the first 
11598
11599one I'll be missing in 13 years.
1160017/01/2016, 22:45 - L Boyle: Reschedule this European summit whatever 
11601
11602it is - just tell them it doesn't suit you ;)
1160317/01/2016, 22:45 - L Boyle: You'll be missing a cracker?? Won't be the 
11604
11605same w/o Kitty
1160617/01/2016, 22:45 - K Mohan: Lol. I might just try to do that, Luke. :)
1160717/01/2016, 22:46 - J Malawana: Can't you just get a helicopter back?
1160817/01/2016, 22:46 - J Malawana: With your special credit card?
1160917/01/2016, 22:46 - L Boyle: You can book an Uber-chopper from central 
11610
11611London now
1161217/01/2016, 22:47 - L Boyle: Charge it to Concur
1161317/01/2016, 22:47 - K Mohan: I'll get my intern to get a pilot licence 
11614
11615in the next 5 months...
1161617/01/2016, 22:47 - L Boyle: I had to ask Andrew Dearden to almost 
11617
11618double the Conf budget - what's another few thousand to get Kitty back 
11619
11620for it on time
1162117/01/2016, 22:48 - J Malawana: Fucking my intern. Absolutely 
11622
11623unbelievable.
1162417/01/2016, 22:48 - J Malawana: That pisses me right off
1162517/01/2016, 22:48 - L Boyle: Lol
1162617/01/2016, 22:48 - J Malawana: I get Luke and Collins and you get an 
11627
11628intern.
1162917/01/2016, 22:48 - J Malawana: :-)
1163017/01/2016, 22:49 - L Boyle: It is said in Edinburgh BMA circles that 
11631
11632Luke & Collins are the Lennon & McCartney of public speaking on matters 
11633
11634like contracts and etc
1163517/01/2016, 22:49 - L Boyle: That's the truth
1163617/01/2016, 22:49 - A Borbora: I guess we're back to spam again.
1163717/01/2016, 22:50 - L Boyle: Apologies. There was so much spam I didn't 
11638
11639read the spam above in which was buried the no-spam regulation
1164017/01/2016, 22:51 - M Redman: Also everyone remember kitty's ?? for 
11641
11642presents mane if you've not already transferred it :)
1164317/01/2016, 22:52 - A Yassaee: Kitty I have lots of coins - do you take 
11644
11645coins?
1164617/01/2016, 22:53 - K Mohan: I take £1 coins, £2 coins and occasionally 
11647
1164850p coins.
1164917/01/2016, 22:53 - K Mohan: :)
1165017/01/2016, 22:53 - A Borbora: Been thinking: 
11651How about we have 2 groups. 
11652One for announcements for example about meetings or any discussions 
11653
11654relating to business (although I'd rather have those by email there's a 
11655
11656place here too) 
11657Another for those wanting to have random chats?
1165817/01/2016, 22:54 - D Rouse: U need the exec to bond think it works 
11659
11660fine
1166117/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: I was thinking that earlier but the 
11662
11663conversations are more flight of ideas with no defined "random chats" 
11664
11665more spin off banter.
1166617/01/2016, 22:54 - K Mohan: I can't believe I just typed that 
11667
11668sentence.
1166917/01/2016, 22:54 - A Collins: So what's this about me and Luke yoyo's 
11670
11671intern
1167217/01/2016, 22:55 - A Borbora: I've said before I'm finding the sheer 
11673
11674volume of this group difficult to manage. There have been some good 
11675
11676points raised above eg about Saturdays but they're getting lost in 
11677
11678hundreds of messages
1167917/01/2016, 22:56 - K Mohan: I do think that if there's anything 
11680
11681important (like the £5 all of you except Amjad and Melody owe me) we 
11682
11683just need to reiterate it by email so it doesn't get lost.
1168417/01/2016, 22:58 - A Borbora: I can't be the only one who finds it 
11685
11686hard to screen through hundreds of messages to get to those points? 
11687
11688E.g. I missed the £5 thing
1168917/01/2016, 22:58 - ?L Elliott: Seriously I've nearly left this group 
11690
11691about 5 times today. Don't people have other people to talk to or 
11692
11693things to do?? It's really off putting the volume of messages and the 
11694
11695content at times -I can't follow any conversation or discussion! 
11696
11697Especially at work.
1169817/01/2016, 23:01 - L Boyle: I agree re the volume, but PLEASE for the 
11699
11700love of God - the answer is not another group!! One is more than 
11701
11702enough!!
1170317/01/2016, 23:03 - K Mohan: I'm not sure it's really fair or 
11704
11705appropriate to ask if people have nothing else to do or no one else to 
11706
11707talk to. I dislike the volume of traffic as much as anyone and complain 
11708
11709about it regularly but let's not get personal.
1171017/01/2016, 23:05 - A Yassaee: I have just eaten half a pack of Oreo's. 
11711
11712That this group exists is the only thing stopping me eating the rest. 
11713
11714Please don't take that away from me.
1171517/01/2016, 23:07 - B Roberts: But you'd be paid premium time if you 
11716
11717were eating them at work...
1171817/01/2016, 23:17 - C Castles: Where is everyone? I've just walked to 
11719
11720pullman bar, and I'm here on my own
1172117/01/2016, 23:18 - J Malawana: I'm behind you
1172217/01/2016, 23:19 - J Malawana: Arrash eat the rest. They're good for 
11723
11724you.
1172517/01/2016, 23:20 - C Castles: Now I'm not sure if you're making me 
11726
11727paranoid, or actually are somewhere here
1172817/01/2016, 23:21 - J Malawana: I can see you
1172917/01/2016, 23:21 - C Castles: Come and say hello then
1173017/01/2016, 23:22 - C Castles: Before I get scared
1173117/01/2016, 23:23 - K Mohan: I'm scared on your behalf. Conan.
1173217/01/2016, 23:29 - C Castles: I dont think he's here
1173317/01/2016, 23:29 - K Mohan: Johann is always there.
1173417/01/2016, 23:30 - C Castles: Reviewing tonight's messages, he said at 
11735
1173622:48 that he was fucking his intern. I therefore assume he is with 
11737
11738Adam and Luke
1173917/01/2016, 23:31 - C Castles: Charlie just walked past
1174017/01/2016, 23:31 - C Castles: Come back Charlie
1174117/01/2016, 23:31 - H Carter: I've just been on the phone to my 
11742
11743boyfriend he's just checked into the Pullman
1174417/01/2016, 23:32 - H Carter: That is NOT Charlie
1174517/01/2016, 23:32 - H Carter: That's Matthew!
1174617/01/2016, 23:32 - K Mohan: Lol.
1174717/01/2016, 23:33 - C Castles: Haha, in my head I was thinking Matthew, 
11748
11749I've no idea why I typed charlie
1175017/01/2016, 23:34 - C Castles: Somehow Harry and Charlie just are 
11751
11752associated in my head
1175317/01/2016, 23:34 - H Carter: Well he finished his last 13 hour shift 
11754
11755today. 7th in a row so I think he's gone to bed - he's not being rude, 
11756
11757Conan.
1175817/01/2016, 23:36 - C Castles: We're going out to a club, it's OK
1175917/01/2016, 23:36 - L Boyle: I'm also in bed, not being rude. Good 
11760
11761evening
1176217/01/2016, 23:36 - A Yassaee: Why was I not invited
1176317/01/2016, 23:36 - C Castles: Invited where?
1176417/01/2016, 23:37 - H Carter: Okay so Matthew now wants to know who's 
11765
11766going out.
1176717/01/2016, 23:37 - C Castles: To the club?
1176817/01/2016, 23:37 - H Carter: I'll take this off this group
1176917/01/2016, 23:45 - J Malawana: Conan you can't wear that to a club
1177017/01/2016, 23:47 - C Castles: But it's my favourite David bowie outfit
1177118/01/2016, 00:16 - L J Davis: Erm. Fraid I may not be there in person 
11772
11773mane. Icky babies in my house :(
1177418/01/2016, 08:06 - D Tooth: I have a sick baby too, typical when Gary 
11775
11776is in Hong Kong. Will see what happens this morning, but may VC in
1177718/01/2016, 08:07 - Y Gourtsouyannis: 10am jdc is that right guys?
1177818/01/2016, 08:07 - H Carter: 10:15
1177918/01/2016, 08:08 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Thanx
1178018/01/2016, 08:11 - H Carter: No
1178118/01/2016, 08:11 - H Carter: * no problem!
1178218/01/2016, 08:24 - C Bell: Eugh cameron on r4
1178318/01/2016, 08:34 - J Malawana: What did he say?
1178418/01/2016, 08:37 - C Bell: Talked about weekend strokes, 15/16, nobody 
11785
11786will lose out
1178718/01/2016, 08:37 - D Rouse: He repeated the 20% star
1178818/01/2016, 08:37 - D Rouse: Stat
1178918/01/2016, 08:37 - D Rouse: And mentioned their nuclear option
1179018/01/2016, 08:38 - D Rouse: The imposition word
1179118/01/2016, 08:44 - J Malawana: So have been thinking about imposition, 
11792
11793to do it I think there are only two ways. One is to only introduce as 
11794
11795docs change jobs which means potentially it taking years because of 
11796
11797lead employers.
1179818/01/2016, 08:44 - J Malawana: The second is to use a statutory 
11799
11800instrument in parliament
1180118/01/2016, 08:44 - J Malawana: But that's where this becomes 
11802
11803incredible.
1180418/01/2016, 08:44 - J Malawana: Because if they use a SI then they do 
11805
11806exactly what we want. They take this to
11807Parliament.
1180818/01/2016, 08:45 - J Malawana: Taking this to parliament and giving us 
11809
11810the opening to use all the politics behind this basically means they 
11811
11812are stuffed.
1181318/01/2016, 08:46 - J Malawana: So I once again go back to my belief 
11814
11815that threatening imposition is incredibly hard to do. And would take so 
11816
11817much political capital that it just would become too painful. But I am 
11818
11819going to get this all fully checked out legally.
1182018/01/2016, 08:46 - A Borbora: Other option is fire and rehire
1182118/01/2016, 08:46 - T Crocker-Buque: Yeah I've always wondered that - 
11822
11823imposition Wil be a total nightmare for them either way.
1182418/01/2016, 08:47 - J Malawana: That's beyond stupid though for them
1182518/01/2016, 08:47 - A Borbora: It's been checked before - Kitty and 
11826
11827Andrew will have the details
1182818/01/2016, 08:47 - J Malawana: God if they do that it would be like 
11829
11830manna from heaven
1183118/01/2016, 08:47 - T Crocker-Buque: And Cameron was taken to task on 
11832
11833the 20% Stat - he sounded weak
1183418/01/2016, 08:48 - T Crocker-Buque: I'm not sure Manna as our members 
11835
11836would be outraged
1183718/01/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: The most likely way is the SI. Which I 
11838
11839just don't think they can afford to go near.
1184018/01/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: But so would everyone else
1184118/01/2016, 08:48 - A Borbora: Only a minority of people are on lead 
11842
11843employer so they can just run the contracts parallel for a run off 
11844
11845period of say 5 years by which point only a small number of people 
11846
11847would remain on the old contract
1184818/01/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: Firing every doc in the NHS?!
1184918/01/2016, 08:48 - A Borbora: Labour used legislation to change civil 
11850
11851service pensions in the mid 2000s
1185218/01/2016, 08:48 - J Malawana: The symbolism would be an absolute 
11853
11854incredible.
1185518/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: Labour had a vast majority.
1185618/01/2016, 08:49 - A Collins: Couldn't they just do it when we rotate? 
11857Surely *most* Jr's rotate at least yearly?
1185818/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: And pensions for civil servants is very 
11859
11860different to junior docs.
1186118/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: They could Adam. As Aaron said
1186218/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: But
1186318/01/2016, 08:49 - J Malawana: The problem is it takes years.
1186418/01/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: Aaron says 5.
1186518/01/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: Not sure.
1186618/01/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: But basically problem is he has a 
11867
11868commitment to do this in Aug 2016.
1186918/01/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: Which basically means they're fucked 
11870
11871every way they try this.
1187218/01/2016, 08:50 - J Malawana: Quagmire scenario
1187318/01/2016, 08:50 - A Borbora: Most people rotate and change contract 
11874
11875and they'd just leave the old guard on the old contract till most of 
11876
11877them have run off and then either force the others to change or take a 
11878
11879decision to leave them alone. 
11880Standard practice in industry
1188118/01/2016, 08:51 - A Collins: How many folk are on a lead employer 
11882
11883arrangement though? Especially hospital based folk? If they're pushing 
11884
11885politically for a 7day NHS I can imagine them doing it to say it's done 
11886
11887and ignoring the small print of people who don't change?
1188818/01/2016, 08:51 - J Malawana: Like I said. They don't make their 
11889
11890political aims.
1189118/01/2016, 08:51 - J Malawana: And they could care less about this if 
11892
11893it jeopardises their political aims.
1189418/01/2016, 08:52 - A Collins: I disagree I think they would make their 
11895
11896political aims. Look how many people believed that the BMA were the 
11897
11898party with the closed door through August/Sept/Oct
1189918/01/2016, 08:52 - J Malawana: The more they talk about imposition the 
11900
11901more I suspect it's desperation.
1190218/01/2016, 08:52 - J Malawana: Talking to Keith last night about his 
11903
11904meeting with the minister, they are so desperate to make this all go 
11905
11906away.
1190718/01/2016, 08:53 - J Malawana: They are talking about putting hundreds 
11908
11909of millions into the consultant contract to buy them off.
1191018/01/2016, 08:53 - J Malawana: Let's see what pressure points we have 
11911
11912left to apply.
1191318/01/2016, 08:54 - J Malawana: They will still lose potentially the 
11914
11915vote on the consultants contract as we will be forced to campaign on 
11916
11917the lower starting salary. We have 8-12000 votes.
1191818/01/2016, 08:54 - J Malawana: That means cc will then probably try 
11919
11920and get more out of them.
1192118/01/2016, 08:55 - J Malawana: Also they have missed their deadline 
11922
11923for consultants. And so now are really wanting to make this all go 
11924
11925away.
1192618/01/2016, 08:56 - K Mohan: On that, did all of you st3 and above get 
11927
11928the comms this week. I didn't.
1192918/01/2016, 08:56 - J Malawana: We just need to remember to play the 
11930
11931game out and be a trade union. It's the being a trade union I think we 
11932
11933all always are worried about the BMA stepping up to do.
1193418/01/2016, 08:56 - J Malawana: Kit can you ask cc about that?
1193518/01/2016, 08:56 - J Malawana: Not sure I did either
1193618/01/2016, 08:57 - L J Davis: Hurray! I'm on a train! 
11937
11938Boo! There's a total points failure somewhere & we're coming via 
11939
11940Aberystwyth ??
1194118/01/2016, 08:57 - L J Davis: So may Tc in for start of mtg.
1194218/01/2016, 08:57 - K Mohan: we are going To need to create the biggest 
11943
11944stink in hell about the lower starting salary. Basically make it 
11945
11946impossible for cc to not do what we want them to do.
1194718/01/2016, 08:57 - K Mohan: Yeah I'll ask.
1194818/01/2016, 08:58 - K Mohan: On our salary. Do we know who has a less 
11949
11950employer. I don't think it's that many people: GP 
11951
11952trainees/PH/northern/NW anyone else?
1195318/01/2016, 08:59 - J Malawana: Keith I think will lead the no campaign 
11954
11955listening to him.
1195618/01/2016, 08:59 - K Mohan: And I don't know the intricacies of TUPE 
11957
11958but do you have to remain on your current contract or can the gov just 
11959
11960TUPE these people over.
1196118/01/2016, 08:59 - J Malawana: He really never did leave JDC in his 
11962
11963head.
1196418/01/2016, 08:59 - J Malawana: Love that guy
1196518/01/2016, 08:59 - K Mohan: Yes I know he's brilliant.
1196618/01/2016, 09:00 - K Mohan: But a LOT of CC are of the this isn't the 
11967
11968juniors problem" mentality.
1196918/01/2016, 09:00 - K Mohan: If not publicly but privately.
1197018/01/2016, 09:00 - J Malawana: Agree.
1197118/01/2016, 09:01 - K Mohan: And many think the lower starting salary 
11972
11973is better than they got. As money sooner.
1197418/01/2016, 09:01 - J Malawana: But having Keith in post is the best 
11975
11976thing we could ever have in cc. Same with Chaand at GPC. Just so 
11977
11978totally onside.
1197918/01/2016, 09:01 - A Borbora: You wouldn't TUPE as the undertaking 
11980
11981isn't changing
1198218/01/2016, 09:01 - L J Davis: From listening to Cameron, this is a 
11983
11984political nightmare they could do without.
11985
11986They have to be seen to stand firm, BUT given the nature of our current 
11987
11988contract (which almost no one understands), they could do basic tweaks 
11989
11990to current contract & still deliver what they want. Re-package as a 
11991
11992lovely shiney new contract...
11993
11994No one would be any the wiser (except us & some of nhse)
1199518/01/2016, 09:02 - L J Davis: TUPE; protects current tcs for 
11996
11997individuals for 2 years
1199818/01/2016, 09:02 - H Carter: Lucy what train are you on?
1199918/01/2016, 09:02 - K Mohan: No but could you TUPE? And change the 
12000
12001undertaking.
1200218/01/2016, 09:02 - H Carter: I'm on the 08:30 from BTM
1200318/01/2016, 09:02 - J Malawana: Funny thing is they're giving the 
12004
12005consultants a banding based contract. Moving from hours based. Exact 
12006
12007opposite to us.
1200818/01/2016, 09:02 - M Redman: What's TUPE?
1200918/01/2016, 09:02 - K Mohan: Yes. Only 2 years. I'd take that if I was 
12010
12011the government.
1201218/01/2016, 09:02 - L J Davis: Then employer can almost do what they 
12013
12014want...
1201518/01/2016, 09:02 - K Mohan: I was hoping no one would ask that, 
12016
12017melody.
1201818/01/2016, 09:03 - K Mohan: What does it stand for?
1201918/01/2016, 09:03 - L J Davis: (I've experienced of being tupe'd & from 
12020
12021phmc)
1202218/01/2016, 09:04 - L J Davis: Transfer ... Hmmm. Undertaking of paid 
12023
12024employment?
1202518/01/2016, 09:04 - L J Davis: I can't remember. Had about 2hrs sleep 
12026
12027;)
1202818/01/2016, 09:04 - L J Davis: But I know the process
1202918/01/2016, 09:05 - K Mohan: 2 years is nothing.
1203018/01/2016, 09:05 - L J Davis: Harry, I'm on the bpw train :(
1203118/01/2016, 09:05 - K Mohan: Is it def 2 years? If so in two years all 
12032
12033juniors could be on the new contract. To all
1203418/01/2016, 09:05 - H Carter: I see!
1203518/01/2016, 09:05 - A Borbora: You aren't bring TUPED. You employer 
12036
12037isn't changing.
1203818/01/2016, 09:05 - H Carter: Hope you find a way through, Lucy!
1203918/01/2016, 09:06 - L J Davis: Hence all the la consultants are under 
12040
12041threat
1204218/01/2016, 09:06 - L J Davis: But could be if they went to lead 
12043
12044employers
1204518/01/2016, 09:06 - A Borbora: TUPE is irrelevant to this process
1204618/01/2016, 09:07 - L J Davis: We're moving (on this train!)
1204718/01/2016, 09:07 - L J Davis: It's not relevant at the mo; but if I 
12048
12049were nhse I'd tupe anyone who wasn't lead employed over to a lead 
12050
12051employer...
1205218/01/2016, 09:08 - T Crocker-Buque: Process of moving your employment 
12053
12054contract from one organisation to another without being made redundant
1205518/01/2016, 09:09 - A Borbora: Many, if not most, employers don't want 
12056
12057lead employers. They certainly wouldn't be wanting to do that.
1205818/01/2016, 09:11 - L J Davis: ...hmmm. But mighten this change their 
12059
12060minds?
1206118/01/2016, 09:20 - A Borbora: Very much doubt it. For every employer 
12062
12063that wins a lead employer contract 15 others loose income. 
12064Many also have liability concerns if their "employee" does something 
12065
12066while on another employer's premises.
1206718/01/2016, 09:24 - L J Davis: What happens in regions where there is 
12068
12069no lead employer, but the junior works in a non-NHS workplace - like 
12070
12071community paeds in Devon (who I'm guessing work in Virgin?) & some 
12072
12073psych trainees?
1207418/01/2016, 09:25 - A Borbora: Not sure exactly but i imagine that they 
12075
12076are seconded from an nhs employer who holds their contract
1207718/01/2016, 09:26 - J Malawana: Like I said. Nighmares
1207818/01/2016, 09:26 - A Borbora: The government have always said 
12079
12080implementation for those changing contracts from August, not existing 
12081
12082contract holders.
1208318/01/2016, 09:26 - J Malawana: No good solution to imposition.
1208418/01/2016, 09:26 - L J Davis: It strikes me we need to know that; more 
12085
12086& more ppl will be working like that, won't they, with circle, etc...
1208718/01/2016, 09:26 - J Malawana: No Aaron. They want all juniors moved 
12088
12089over n
1209018/01/2016, 09:27 - A Borbora: They haven't said that before.
1209118/01/2016, 09:27 - A Borbora: Their timelines referred to new starters
1209218/01/2016, 09:27 - J Malawana: That's the basis of their transition 
12093
12094funding.
1209518/01/2016, 09:27 - J Malawana: That's why no grandfather clause
1209618/01/2016, 09:27 - A Borbora: That's different to lead employer 
12097
12098holders, though.
1209918/01/2016, 09:28 - L J Davis: I though imposition was for everyone. 
12100
12101That's always been clear... Hasn't it?
1210218/01/2016, 09:28 - K Mohan: That's the point but TUPE only protects 
12103
12104you for two years. They have been clear for 3 years that they want 
12105
12106everyone on new contract.
1210718/01/2016, 09:28 - L J Davis: Yes. I thought that too kitty
1210818/01/2016, 09:28 - K Mohan: Running two systems is logistical 
12109
12110nightmare.
1211118/01/2016, 09:29 - L J Davis: Yeah. But not impossible
1211218/01/2016, 09:29 - L J Davis: Aaron is right in that juniors wouldn't 
12113
12114be changing employer
1211518/01/2016, 09:29 - K Mohan: Which is why when they talk about pay 
12116
12117protection it is just a number not a retaining a system
1211818/01/2016, 09:30 - L J Davis: (Hence Classic tupe not relevant)
1211918/01/2016, 09:30 - L J Davis: It'd have to be another system.
1212018/01/2016, 09:31 - L J Davis: With TUPE you normally change employers, 
12121
12122but keep tcs.
1212318/01/2016, 09:31 - K Mohan: Sorry I feel like we're going round in 
12124
12125circles. The question is what they can legally do about those x% with a 
12126
12127lead employer and what protections the BMA feel they have.
1212818/01/2016, 09:31 - K Mohan: The issue isn't TUPE but how to fight the 
12129
12130changes if we can at all, surely?
1213118/01/2016, 09:32 - L J Davis: Absolutely
1213218/01/2016, 09:39 - L J Davis: Harry is ignoring me now (!sob ??????)
1213318/01/2016, 09:40 - H Carter: Am I ?!
1213418/01/2016, 09:40 - H Carter: What did you say?
1213518/01/2016, 09:40 - L J Davis: I sent you special text msgs & 
12136
12137everything! Wail!!!????????
1213818/01/2016, 09:41 - A Borbora: Options they have are:
121391)Allow them to stay on current contract 
121402) legislation
121413) fire and rehire 
121424) allow most people to run off (say 5yrs) before forcing the remainder 
12143
12144over by (3) or (2)
1214518/01/2016, 09:41 - H Carter: Sorry! Resend them but to my new
1214618/01/2016, 09:41 - H Carter: .... Phone number 07479946446
1214718/01/2016, 09:48 - A Collier Not that I suppose you guys and girls 
12148
12149will care but I'm going to be late to the meeting as I've been on call. 
12150
12151Please don't shame me when I walk in :-S
1215218/01/2016, 10:03 - K Mohan: <Media omitted>
1215318/01/2016, 10:04 - K Mohan: A
1215418/01/2016, 10:04 - K Mohan: Oops.
1215518/01/2016, 10:04 - K Mohan: I care Andrew. I will also be leading the 
12156
12157slow hand clap when you walk in.
1215818/01/2016, 10:05 - A Collier I thought that was a clip of the silence 
12159
12160you'll greet me with :-(
1216118/01/2016, 10:05 - L J Davis: At least you won't be sneaking in to the 
12162
12163front bench!
1216418/01/2016, 10:06 - D Rouse: Almost there is my Moët on ice
1216518/01/2016, 10:07 - A Collier Yes, unlike some Kitty and I were never 
12166
12167late for a meeting we were chairing
1216818/01/2016, 10:10 - D Tooth: Oh my god guys, you go to a GP appointment 
12169
12170and get back to 100++ messages. On my way to a and e with guy so will 
12171
12172do my best to call in at some point
1217318/01/2016, 10:11 - D Rouse: You're transferring a patient
1217418/01/2016, 10:12 - H Carter: Hope he's okay, Donna.
1217518/01/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: Oh wait this is not a patient
1217618/01/2016, 10:13 - D Tooth: My son David, he's called Guy!
1217718/01/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: Ah I hope he's okay
1217818/01/2016, 10:13 - D Tooth: Our fault, stupid name
1217918/01/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: I thought you were transferring a guy from 
12180
12181the GP
1218218/01/2016, 10:13 - D Rouse: Apologies I hope he's okay
1218318/01/2016, 10:14 - D Tooth: Not at all don't worry
1218418/01/2016, 10:16 - A Sami: Oh, no, Donna. I hope he is going to be OK!
1218518/01/2016, 10:32 - K Mohan: Filling the silence: HAPPY BIRTHDAY 
12186
12187LOTTIE!
1218818/01/2016, 10:34 - ?L Elliott: Yay! Good spam. Lol. Thank you.
1218918/01/2016, 10:38 - C Castles: Happy birthday lottie
1219018/01/2016, 10:38 - A Collins: HB ??????
1219118/01/2016, 10:39 - D Tooth: Happy birthday Lottie!! Many of mine I 
12192
12193have spent at JDC!! Xx
1219418/01/2016, 11:01 - A Yassaee: Aaron's fanfare needs some re-tuning.
1219518/01/2016, 11:01 - A Yassaee: Happy birthday Lottie
1219618/01/2016, 11:01 - A Collins: I thought it was our jeremy is coming 
12197
12198alarm?
1219918/01/2016, 11:15 - L J Davis: Happy birthday lottie!
1220018/01/2016, 11:17 - D Tooth: I am dialled in but in between consultant 
12201
12202reviewing guy
1220318/01/2016, 11:19 - A Collins: Andrew has arrived! 
12204????
12205
12206????
12207
12208????
12209
12210????
12211
12212????
12213
12214????
1221518/01/2016, 11:39 - Z Greaves: Has anyone got any paracetamol please?
1221618/01/2016, 11:39 - A Collins: yeah, loads, hang on
1221718/01/2016, 11:39 - K Mohan: i think i've got some ibuprofen and 
12218
12219sudafed
1222018/01/2016, 11:40 - C Castles: I've got dispersible cocodamol
1222118/01/2016, 11:40 - K Mohan: ok scratch that i just have pick and mix
1222218/01/2016, 11:40 - M Redman: is it your ovaries? #likealadydoc
1222318/01/2016, 11:41 - Z Greaves: Thanks
1222418/01/2016, 11:41 - M Redman: (inappropriate question, jk...!)
1222518/01/2016, 11:41 - Z Greaves: Lol
1222618/01/2016, 11:41 - A Collins: Pick and mix probably good for 
12227
12228headaches, like giving glucose to neonates?
1222918/01/2016, 11:42 - H Carter: I have Zoe
1223018/01/2016, 11:42 - H Carter: I'm front middle right
1223118/01/2016, 11:42 - Z Greaves: In sure there's a BMJ Christmas paper in 
12232
12233that
1223418/01/2016, 11:43 - Z Greaves: Thanks Harry - Adam has given me some 
12235
12236already :)
1223718/01/2016, 11:44 - C Castles: Who is this guy?
1223818/01/2016, 11:44 - K Mohan: Steven bishop
1223918/01/2016, 11:45 - K Mohan: he's the amazing numbers guy who we 
12240
12241secretly brought in to work with us
1224218/01/2016, 11:45 - A Borbora: He's done the analytics
1224318/01/2016, 11:45 - Z Greaves: On lead employers I know there's the 
12244
12245north east and at least one other region on lead employer contracts as 
12246
12247a total region so with things like paeds run through you'd be looking 
12248
12249at 7 years to work out an old contract
1225018/01/2016, 11:45 - Z Greaves: Good charts
1225118/01/2016, 11:45 - M Redman: HE'S SO COOL
1225218/01/2016, 11:45 - C Castles: Is he a doctor?
1225318/01/2016, 11:45 - A Borbora: Mersey 
12254North West
12255London GPs 
12256Public health
1225718/01/2016, 11:46 - E McCourt: Yes anaesthetics
1225818/01/2016, 11:46 - A Borbora: Used to be a physicist
1225918/01/2016, 11:46 - C Castles: Why are we not using hperu?
1226018/01/2016, 11:46 - L J Davis: Severn GPs
1226118/01/2016, 11:46 - L J Davis: Because he's better? Maybe?
1226218/01/2016, 11:46 - Z Greaves: I'm not sure as a trade union equity 
12263
12264should be our defining principle on which to model though - surely 
12265
12266utilitarian principles would be preferable?
1226718/01/2016, 11:47 - A Collins: To show our right wing-ness Zoe? ;)
1226818/01/2016, 11:47 - A Collins: yoyo has been talking about us
1226918/01/2016, 11:47 - E McCourt: He has worked with HPERU
1227018/01/2016, 11:47 - Z Greaves: I noticed :P
1227118/01/2016, 11:47 - A Collier Remember Conan, we tried HPERU alone 
12272
12273before and it didn't go so well.
1227418/01/2016, 11:48 - C Castles: Fair enough, I just wanted to know
1227518/01/2016, 11:48 - K Mohan: what andrew said
1227618/01/2016, 11:48 - A Borbora: He also got the data
1227718/01/2016, 11:49 - Z Greaves: And utilitarianism isn't my personal 
12278
12279preference but as a trade union looking to get the best for our members 
12280
12281that's probably where we ought to sit surely?
1228218/01/2016, 11:49 - A Collins: yeah, I'm largely kidding, I actually 
12283
12284think that utiitarianism, particularly for things like training budget, 
12285
12286is ideal
1228718/01/2016, 11:50 - Z Greaves: LJD is going to disagree with us I think
1228818/01/2016, 11:50 - L J Davis: No. There are specially vulnerable small 
12289
12290groups who need special consideration.
1229118/01/2016, 11:50 - L J Davis: Yes ??
1229218/01/2016, 11:50 - C Castles: Am I the only one who didn't know who he 
12293
12294was? Maybe it was discussed at a meeting I missed
1229518/01/2016, 11:51 - A Collins: I got introduced to him just this am, 
12296
12297but I knew conceptually that he existed
1229818/01/2016, 11:51 - J Malawana: The team he leads includes a PhD in 
12299
12300physics maths and he is a computer scientist.
1230118/01/2016, 11:51 - J Malawana: All are docs as well
1230218/01/2016, 11:51 - J Malawana: They work with HPERU.
1230318/01/2016, 11:52 - A Sami: ****GOOD SPAM ALERT****
12304
12305
12306
12307Happy Birthday, Lottie!
12308
12309??????????
1231018/01/2016, 11:52 - J Malawana: But have the very complex modelling 
12311
12312skills.
1231318/01/2016, 11:52 - L J Davis: I think I'm in ??????
1231418/01/2016, 11:52 - Z Greaves: I think he needs a # fan club
1231518/01/2016, 11:52 - J Malawana: The otherside gave up as they know we 
12316
12317have got them on number.
1231818/01/2016, 11:53 - K Mohan: this work is amazing. it would be good to 
12319
12320be able to see it properly though.
1232118/01/2016, 11:53 - L J Davis: (I really like numbers!!! & people who 
12322
12323understand them!!!)
1232418/01/2016, 11:53 - Z Greaves: I know #modellinggod
1232518/01/2016, 11:54 - M Redman: #naylornaiedit
1232618/01/2016, 11:54 - A Sami: Numbers is a perfect world. I f I was not a 
12327
12328doctors, I would have been either an accountant or a mechanic (I love 
12329
12330cars)
1233118/01/2016, 11:54 - M Redman: #naylornailedit
1233218/01/2016, 11:55 - A Collins: #SteFans ?
1233318/01/2016, 11:56 - M Redman: woopsie, his surnames bishop not 
12334
12335naylor... Wrong steven
1233618/01/2016, 11:56 - C Castles: Haha
1233718/01/2016, 11:58 - K Mohan: does anyone know where the cards are?
1233818/01/2016, 11:58 - M Redman: they've not made it over here yet.
1233918/01/2016, 11:59 - Z Greaves: They travelled to my left about half an 
12340
12341hr ago
1234218/01/2016, 11:59 - A Collins: Perhaps yates has destroyed them in a 
12343
12344fit of rage and frustration
1234518/01/2016, 12:00 - E McCourt: They're at Bala
1234618/01/2016, 12:01 - E McCourt: Or Tim
1234718/01/2016, 12:01 - J Malawana: We wanted to out smart them. Now they 
12348
12349are stuck floundering with politics.
1235018/01/2016, 12:01 - A Collins: #theofficersarewatching
1235118/01/2016, 12:01 - L J Davis: I didn't know he was a destination
1235218/01/2016, 12:01 - K Mohan: ok i have them now.
1235318/01/2016, 12:01 - K Mohan: who needs the cards
1235418/01/2016, 12:01 - A Collins: Welcome to the JDC Vale cards. These 
12355
12356cards are for the secretariat, and will be stopping at Tim, Bala, 
12357
12358Kitty, Zoe
1235918/01/2016, 12:01 - A Collins: Joking aside I've not signed anything
1236018/01/2016, 12:02 - C Castles: Over on the right
1236118/01/2016, 12:02 - K Mohan: zoe, if i pass them to you can you pass 
12362
12363them to lauren and melody
1236418/01/2016, 12:02 - L J Davis: I haven't, but will come find you?
1236518/01/2016, 12:02 - D Rouse: I am watching you collins. Pay attention!
1236618/01/2016, 12:03 - K Mohan: melody, pass them forward when you are 
12367
12368done then pass them over to harry and andrew when your block has 
12369
12370signed.
1237118/01/2016, 12:03 - A Collins: Stop staring david, that's harrassment!
1237218/01/2016, 12:04 - D Tooth: Could somebody sign from me please? I am a 
12373
12374bit in and out in between reattaching a sats probe!
1237518/01/2016, 12:05 - M Redman: what shall i put donna?
1237618/01/2016, 12:05 - K Mohan: put " donna loves you."
1237718/01/2016, 12:06 - M Redman: kitty, I didn't want to keep hold of them 
12378
12379too long so I'll leave it to you to write!!!
1238018/01/2016, 12:06 - D Rouse: Where is the card(s)
1238118/01/2016, 12:07 - D Rouse: Think we need to sign at front too
1238218/01/2016, 12:08 - D Tooth: Ooh was there a GP question sorry missed 
12383
12384it! Anther application of sats probe and paddy!
1238518/01/2016, 12:08 - D Tooth: Kitty behave!!
1238618/01/2016, 12:09 - C Castles: Yeah, just checking there would be some 
12387
12388sort of gp training supplement
1238918/01/2016, 12:09 - D Tooth: Ok thanks Conan
1239018/01/2016, 12:10 - A Collins: Donna... what are you doing? (just out 
12391
12392of interest, not a criticism)
1239318/01/2016, 12:10 - K Mohan: can someone sign for donna
1239418/01/2016, 12:10 - D Rouse: Looking after her son
1239518/01/2016, 12:10 - D Tooth: I am in a and e with my son with a wheeze 
12396
12397and revisions and tracheal tug
1239818/01/2016, 12:11 - D Tooth: Recessions!
1239918/01/2016, 12:11 - D Tooth: Looking like he's getting montelukast!
1240018/01/2016, 12:12 - C Castles: Adam is going to sign cards for you 
12401
12402Donna
1240318/01/2016, 12:12 - A Collins: Aww no! Boo :(
1240418/01/2016, 12:12 - C Castles: Hope guy is OK
1240518/01/2016, 12:16 - D Tooth: Adam can you stop asking questions and 
12406
12407sign the card on my behalf!!
1240818/01/2016, 12:18 - A Sami: Donna. I hope he gets better soon.
12409
12410
12411
12412
12413***Can someone be kind enough to sign my name please? A simple 'All the 
12414
12415best from Amjad' will do***
12416
12417
12418Thank you
1241918/01/2016, 12:19 - A Collins: Oh sorry amjad! Just signed Donna
1242018/01/2016, 12:20 - D Tooth: Thanks Adam
1242118/01/2016, 12:24 - E McCourt: Sorry team, I have to go graduate from 
12422
12423King's in a few minutes. Make good decisions.
1242418/01/2016, 12:25 - K Mohan: happy graduation!
1242518/01/2016, 12:25 - Z Greaves: Oooh congrats - send us a cap and gown 
12426
12427pic
1242818/01/2016, 12:25 - A Sami: That is amazing, Ellen. Congratulations!
12429
12430
12431**Can someone sign my name in the card please?**
1243218/01/2016, 12:27 - A Collins: Ooh fab! Thought you were looking a bit 
12433
12434dolled up for JDC!
1243518/01/2016, 12:32 - D Tooth: Congrats Ellen xx
1243618/01/2016, 12:33 - C Castles: Congrats Ellen, enjoy
1243718/01/2016, 12:35 - K Mohan: who has got the cards now?
1243818/01/2016, 12:35 - K Mohan: #cardmonitor
1243918/01/2016, 12:36 - ?L Elliott: Thank you for birthday wishes and yay 
12440
12441go Ellen! Congrats
1244218/01/2016, 12:36 - A Sami: Dear Card Monitor
12443
12444Can my name gets signed once it reaches you please?
12445
12446Kindest regards
12447
12448Card Chaser ??
1244918/01/2016, 12:37 - K Mohan: harry and andrew have the cards passed you 
12450
12451by yet?
1245218/01/2016, 12:37 - H Carter: No
1245318/01/2016, 12:37 - D Rouse: Need to sign
1245418/01/2016, 12:38 - K Mohan: adam can you find the card.
1245518/01/2016, 12:38 - H Carter: Need to sign too!
1245618/01/2016, 12:38 - A Collins: Jeeves gave it to the left wing...
1245718/01/2016, 12:38 - K Mohan: huh?
1245818/01/2016, 12:39 - A Collins: Jeeves took it over to the (physically) 
12459
12460left side of the room
1246118/01/2016, 12:40 - A Collins: Oh god I've just realised we revealed 
12462
12463our secret weapon to the wider JDC.
1246418/01/2016, 12:40 - A Collins: Feck
1246518/01/2016, 12:40 - A Collins: I give it 3 hrs max
1246618/01/2016, 12:41 - J Malawana: I trust them. Don't worry :-)
1246718/01/2016, 12:41 - Z Greaves: Really?
1246818/01/2016, 12:42 - Z Greaves: If we pin down our leaks do we have any 
12469
12470recourse - can we evict people?
1247118/01/2016, 12:42 - A Collins: Don't we sign something?
1247218/01/2016, 12:42 - Z Greaves: Yes we do
1247318/01/2016, 12:42 - K Mohan: we have to trust them. we can't withhold 
12474
12475the info from jdc
1247618/01/2016, 12:43 - A Collins: I know I know. I'm not really suggesting 
12477
12478we shouldn't do it... :/
1247918/01/2016, 12:43 - K Mohan: apparently jeeves has the card
1248018/01/2016, 12:43 - Z Greaves: I realise we have to tell them I just 
12481
12482want to know we can have someone's skin if they breach trust?
1248318/01/2016, 12:43 - K Mohan: article 14
1248418/01/2016, 12:44 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Which of our secret weapons did 
12485
12486we reveal?
1248718/01/2016, 12:44 - K Mohan: steven bishop
1248818/01/2016, 12:44 - K Mohan: adam can you get the card from jeeves
1248918/01/2016, 12:44 - K Mohan: and give it to harry and andrew
1249018/01/2016, 12:44 - Y Gourtsouyannis: It wnt b clear to a lot of 
12491
12492people. Johann should reiterate how secret he is.
1249318/01/2016, 12:46 - A Collins: didn't realise he hand't handed it off. 
12494
12495will do
1249618/01/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: To be fair they know Steven exists and 
12497
12498they know he is working with us
1249918/01/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: That's not the secret
1250018/01/2016, 12:46 - J Malawana: :-)
1250118/01/2016, 12:46 - A Collins: Haha, I was under the impression they 
12502
12503didn't know hte extend of our modelling though?
1250418/01/2016, 12:47 - L J Davis: Can you tell us what we're keeping 
12505
12506secret? Just to be clear?
1250718/01/2016, 12:47 - A Borbora: The data collection
1250818/01/2016, 12:49 - K Mohan: that was done via fb. i thought that was 
12509
12510public
1251118/01/2016, 12:50 - A Collier At the time I thought the data collection 
12512
12513wasn't explicitly tied to the BMA
1251418/01/2016, 12:51 - D Tooth: Shame though as there's no data for GP 
12515
12516registrars right?
1251718/01/2016, 12:51 - J Malawana: There isn't as that's basically 
12518
12519transferred across.
1252018/01/2016, 12:52 - L J Davis: I'm soooo cold & hungry!
1252118/01/2016, 12:52 - A Collier There could be though, couldn't there. As 
12522
12523some of Steven's data is independent of the failure of GPs to fill in 
12524
12525the one off monitoring.
1252618/01/2016, 12:52 - L J Davis: I fear I may have caught a chill...
1252718/01/2016, 12:53 - L J Davis: Did gps get asked to monitor? When?
1252818/01/2016, 12:53 - A Collier LJD, caught a chill? It sounds like 
12529
12530you've caught the 1950's!
1253118/01/2016, 12:53 - L J Davis: I have. But 1920s
1253218/01/2016, 12:54 - K Mohan: i am freezing.
1253318/01/2016, 12:54 - A Collier Krishna and the GP trainees attempted a 
12534
12535one off data collection on GP registrars but the return rate was very 
12536
12537very low
1253818/01/2016, 12:54 - L J Davis: Or possibly 1840s
1253918/01/2016, 12:54 - A Collins: I have 2 jackets and am feeling 
12540
12541chivalrous. Who wants them?
1254218/01/2016, 12:54 - A Collins: ps I'm warm, but also hungry (as 
12543
12544usual...)
1254518/01/2016, 12:55 - C Castles: i'm hungry and a nice temperature
1254618/01/2016, 12:55 - L J Davis: I'm cold, but I'm not sure I'm cold 
12547
12548enough to come get your coat...
1254918/01/2016, 12:55 - A Collins: is a barbour...
1255018/01/2016, 12:55 - M Redman: I'm hungry and cold ??
1255118/01/2016, 12:57 - L J Davis: Are we stopping at 1? I have a small 
12552
12553hungry person who does need to be fed...
1255418/01/2016, 12:57 - A Collins: I have a large hungry person...
1255518/01/2016, 12:57 - M Redman: LJD i have some unused hand warmers would 
12556
12557you like them passing along?
1255818/01/2016, 12:57 - L J Davis: Are you breastfeeding too, Adam?
1255918/01/2016, 12:57 - L J Davis: I had no idea! ??????
1256018/01/2016, 12:58 - A Collins: no these are just for show ??
1256118/01/2016, 12:58 - Z Greaves: Did you get the free hand warmers off 
12562
12563virgin this morn too :) well impressed!
1256418/01/2016, 12:58 - L J Davis: They are lurvery jubbly m'dear.
12565
12566But not very productive!
1256718/01/2016, 12:59 - L J Davis: Where is lunch? Might meet you there...
1256818/01/2016, 12:59 - Z Greaves: I'm also very cold and very hungry :(
1256918/01/2016, 12:59 - A Yassaee: ...
1257018/01/2016, 13:00 - L J Davis: Where is lunch?
1257118/01/2016, 13:00 - H Carter: Princes
1257218/01/2016, 13:00 - L J Davis: ?? thanks Harry!
1257318/01/2016, 13:00 - K Mohan: can i have your £5 at lunch time please 
12574
12575guys
1257618/01/2016, 13:01 - A Collins: oh yes, of course :)
1257718/01/2016, 13:02 - C Castles: donna, mute please
1257818/01/2016, 13:02 - M Redman: donna we can hear hospital beeping!
1257918/01/2016, 13:02 - M Redman: hope all is well ??
1258018/01/2016, 13:02 - D Tooth: Sorry! I got kicked out and had to re dial 
12581
12582in and forgot
1258318/01/2016, 13:04 - A Sami: Adam, can you sign my name when you get the 
12584
12585card from Jeeves please? Thank you
1258618/01/2016, 13:04 - A Collins: I don't have it I'm afraid! I'm sure one 
12587
12588of the others will :)
1258918/01/2016, 13:05 - D Tooth: At least it reminded you all of work for a 
12590
12591little second!
1259218/01/2016, 13:08 - L J Davis: Can someone bung 'good luck with sasc & 
12593
12594lots of love Ljd x' on the card for me?
1259518/01/2016, 13:08 - K Mohan: can you sign it later, ljd? or have you 
12596
12597left
1259818/01/2016, 13:10 - C Castles: that system for the gp supplement is 
12599
12600worse for anyone at higher pay points doing gp training (ie anyone pay 
12601
12602protected/retraining)
1260318/01/2016, 13:11 - A Collins: yes, anything in cash is worse than a 
12604
12605percentage of pay! esp when we're asking for annual progression per 
12606
12607inflation
1260818/01/2016, 13:15 - Z Greaves: But I'm soooo hungry!!!
1260918/01/2016, 13:16 - L Boyle: FFS LET'S EAT!!!!!!!
1261018/01/2016, 13:16 - A Collins: POINT OF INFORMATION: Can you please not 
12611
12612say that we're delaying lunch? :P
1261318/01/2016, 13:16 - L Boyle: I'm going down to eat it myself
1261418/01/2016, 13:17 - H Carter: Me too
1261518/01/2016, 13:17 - A Collins: I'd offer to join you but there's a real 
12616
12617danger there'd be little left
1261818/01/2016, 13:17 - K Mohan: i have sweets.
1261918/01/2016, 13:17 - A Collins: Damn.
1262018/01/2016, 13:18 - L Boyle: Lol
1262118/01/2016, 13:18 - A Yassaee: Dessert before dinner?!
1262218/01/2016, 13:18 - A Collins: At least BoJo went to a proper school... 
12623
12624none of this Charterhouse shite
1262518/01/2016, 13:18 - L Boyle: Is David aware he's holding up lunch to 
12626
12627talk about Boris Johnson???
1262818/01/2016, 13:18 - A Collins: Right now lunch is like bojo hanging on 
12629
12630that zipline
1263118/01/2016, 13:18 - A Collins: poor lunch.
1263218/01/2016, 13:18 - C Castles: We could move to lunch
1263318/01/2016, 13:18 - A Yassaee: So i gather that there are degrees of 
12634
12635moving.
1263618/01/2016, 13:19 - A Collins: Lunch is lonely, 
12637
12638it needs to eaten
12639
12640its cold, and alone. 
12641
12642Sad lunch.
1264318/01/2016, 13:19 - M Redman: MOVE TO NEXT BUSINESS... dare you 
12644
12645collins...
1264618/01/2016, 13:19 - L Boyle: LOL
1264718/01/2016, 13:19 - A Collins: I think the acceptance of moving is 
12648
12649going to depend largely on the intensity of the moving...
1265018/01/2016, 13:19 - L Boyle: Move to next business
1265118/01/2016, 13:19 - L Boyle: Let's do it
1265218/01/2016, 13:19 - A Yassaee: Just you wait until you read your 
12653
12654whatsapp David
1265518/01/2016, 13:19 - A Collins: and who is going to guardian the 
12656
12657movement.
1265818/01/2016, 13:19 - A Collins: You're up chair of conference...
1265918/01/2016, 13:20 - L Boyle: Lol I'd love to
1266018/01/2016, 13:20 - L Boyle: But the would take longer than letting 
12661
12662Dave boy finish wittering on
1266318/01/2016, 13:20 - L Boyle: vote* would
1266418/01/2016, 13:20 - A Collier I'm concerned about David's mortality 
12665
12666risk as he continues to speak
1266718/01/2016, 13:20 - L Boyle: Going up exponentially
1266818/01/2016, 13:20 - A Collins: are you going to set a patient on him 
12669
12670andrew?
1267118/01/2016, 13:21 - A Collier Perhaps
1267218/01/2016, 13:22 - C Castles: Arghhhh, now Johann is doing it
1267318/01/2016, 13:22 - A Collins: Bye David :) have fun, save lives
1267418/01/2016, 13:25 - A Sami: Kitty, 
12675
12676I am guessing that you will be handing the card and present to Andy at 
12677
12678some point.
12679
12680Can you put my name down on the card before you give it to him please?
12681
12682Many thanks
12683
12684Amjad
1268518/01/2016, 13:40 - D Rouse: Hahaha funny
1268618/01/2016, 13:40 - D Rouse: I mentioned him in passing
1268718/01/2016, 14:01 - D Tooth: Yes return rate low as done as st3 was 
12688
12689completing. We warned the GP specific group that it wasn't a good time 
12690
12691to look at data, and also with GP there are the same old issues of 
12692
12693asking your trainer or practice manager to sign off the data, which we 
12694
12695weren't happy about
1269618/01/2016, 14:02 - D Tooth: Sorry just back f rom hospital will call 
12697
12698in once I e got guy sorted
1269918/01/2016, 14:11 - Z Greaves: So can I clarify on my question that got 
12700
12701overlooked: if we proceed woth the proposed safe working limits - 7 
12702
12703consecutive shifts and 3 consecutive long shifts - have we modelled to 
12704
12705ascertain whether or not the workforce is large enough to deliver the 
12706
12707required service?
1270818/01/2016, 14:12 - Z Greaves: Ps it's still very chilly in here!
1270918/01/2016, 14:12 - A Collins: If you make it any warmer I'm going to 
12710
12711start undressing.
1271218/01/2016, 14:13 - ?L Elliott: This was something we were worried 
12713
12714about when doing the a&e rota Zoe. It was suggested that there would be 
12715
12716more locum gaps. And I think looking at the template we would have to 
12717
12718increase the amount of locums (which already is like 2-3 every day in 
12719
12720my a&e)
1272118/01/2016, 14:14 - A Yassaee: Was that threat the reason why Scotland 
12722
12723decided against imposing?
1272418/01/2016, 14:15 - A Collins: I think that is an important question 
12725
12726(lottie/zoe) which we haven't really looked at. If we could produce 
12727
12728numbers to back up the issues we've highlighted about people being 
12729
12730spread thinner that might be effective as PR, but possibly also to the 
12731
12732govt. 
12733
12734Arrash your question is also important, and yes that was the threat. 
12735
12736However we're having a cold winter and I'm worried the threat might not 
12737
12738be implementable
1273918/01/2016, 14:16 - A Yassaee: You can do anything if you believe in 
12740
12741yourself.
1274218/01/2016, 14:17 - C Castles: The threat of Adam undressing?
1274318/01/2016, 14:17 - L J Davis: Zoe; tell me what you just said again?
1274418/01/2016, 14:20 - M Redman: who's just come in the room
1274518/01/2016, 14:20 - C Castles: Dunno
1274618/01/2016, 14:20 - A Collins: who?
1274718/01/2016, 14:20 - K Mohan: viv de feu
1274818/01/2016, 14:20 - A Collier Legal team
1274918/01/2016, 14:20 - K Mohan: and some girl
1275018/01/2016, 14:20 - A Collins: the sat at the front I don't 
12751
12752recorgnises?
1275318/01/2016, 14:21 - A Collier Viv is head of legal and I believe the 
12754
12755lady is an employment barrister named Sarah
1275618/01/2016, 14:21 - A Collins: ah :)
1275718/01/2016, 14:22 - M Redman: ahaa - ta :)
1275818/01/2016, 14:41 - A Collins: amjad about 3 words of what you just 
12759
12760said appeared on the screen in a flash
1276118/01/2016, 14:41 - A Collins: send it to me and I'll read it out.
1276218/01/2016, 14:41 - A Collins: adamcollins108@gmail.com
1276318/01/2016, 14:42 - A Sami: Thank you
1276418/01/2016, 14:54 - Z Greaves: If we're going end up in sustained 
12765
12766intransigent IA it should be over imposition after a contract has been 
12767
12768put to a vote and not whilst there's still ground to gain in negs!
1276918/01/2016, 14:57 - L J Davis: Johann can't see me!
12770I'd like to say something! :)
1277118/01/2016, 15:07 - A Sami: HEE pay half of our salaries and all of our 
12772
12773travel expenses!
1277418/01/2016, 15:08 - A Sami: And some of training S/L costs
1277518/01/2016, 15:09 - A Sami: Can someone pass my comment for me please?
1277618/01/2016, 15:10 - A Sami: *Some of salaries at least!
1277718/01/2016, 15:12 - A Collins: I don't think we will have any recourse 
12778
12779to the legal arguments here, that is clearly well established opinion. 
12780
12781But what I am interested in is if trainees are protected against averse 
12782
12783educational outcomes from whistleblowing. i think the answer i'm 
12784
12785getting is no.
1278618/01/2016, 15:13 - D Tooth: Sorry am back, kept getting kicked out
1278718/01/2016, 15:18 - K Mohan: not meaning to be an arse but i'm still 
12788
12789owed over half the money (£60) for the presents i bought.
1279018/01/2016, 15:18 - M Redman: <Media omitted>
1279118/01/2016, 15:18 - A Collins: Coming :)
1279218/01/2016, 15:19 - A Sami: And I am sorry to keep pestering you, 
12793
12794Kitty. But is my name on the card now please?
1279518/01/2016, 15:19 - M Redman: Sorry... I genuinely sent that before 
12796
12797your comment but took ages to upload. Pay up folks, the teabag isn't 
12798
12799enough!!! ????????
1280018/01/2016, 15:20 - K Mohan: yes it is amjad!
1280118/01/2016, 15:21 - A Sami: Thank you. And I hope you get all of your 
12802
12803money back!
1280418/01/2016, 15:22 - K Mohan: if you transferred me money could you let 
12805
12806me know; i think andrew, amjad, melody and someone else has transferred 
12807
12808cash. (but none of your names come up).
1280918/01/2016, 15:22 - A Collins: did you get that fiver I willed across 
12810
12811the room?
1281218/01/2016, 15:22 - A Yassaee: I have Kitty.
1281318/01/2016, 15:22 - K Mohan: aha - thanks arrash. :)
1281418/01/2016, 15:22 - K Mohan: yes adam.
1281518/01/2016, 15:22 - A Collins: :)
1281618/01/2016, 15:23 - A Sami: I have put my name as the reference for the 
12817
12818payment, Kitty
1281918/01/2016, 15:25 - K Mohan: yes thanks amjad.
1282018/01/2016, 15:50 - Z Greaves: Just updated my diary and a little 
12821
12822shaken to realise I don't have an exec meeting in my diary any time in 
12823
12824the next few weeks - have I missed a booking?
1282518/01/2016, 15:50 - A Collins: 28th?
1282618/01/2016, 15:50 - Z Greaves: Also exec dinner? What happened to that?
1282718/01/2016, 15:50 - K Mohan: i think that's been postponed.
1282818/01/2016, 15:51 - Z Greaves: Daytime London 28th Jan? Or Feb?
1282918/01/2016, 15:51 - A Collier I think we can get what we want on plain 
12830
12831vs premium time by translating the current definition of premium time 
12832
12833into non-pay safeguards/rostering limits rather an increase rates of 
12834
12835pay.
1283618/01/2016, 15:51 - A Collins: yes zoe, jan
1283718/01/2016, 15:51 - Z Greaves: Annoying that's like one of two dates I 
12838
12839cannot do :(
1284018/01/2016, 15:52 - A Collins: :(
1284118/01/2016, 15:52 - Z Greaves: Well I'm free in the afternoon so can VC
1284218/01/2016, 15:53 - A Collins: I'll only be here for the PM
1284318/01/2016, 15:53 - A Borbora: Dinner isn't planned yet
1284418/01/2016, 15:53 - A Collier The next exec meetings are
1284518/01/2016, 15:53 - ?L Elliott: The officers had a dinner though?!
1284618/01/2016, 15:53 - A Collier 28 Jan
1284718/01/2016, 15:53 - A Collier 21 April
1284818/01/2016, 15:54 - A Collier 11 Aug
1284918/01/2016, 15:56 - A Borbora: The dinner will happen just not at its 
12850
12851traditional time
1285218/01/2016, 15:57 - C Castles: its going to be 8am?
1285318/01/2016, 15:57 - A Yassaee: Brinner
1285418/01/2016, 16:05 - L J Davis: I didn't know/do an officers dinner. 
12855
12856<sigh>. I don't think they like me ??????
1285718/01/2016, 16:07 - K Mohan: johann, at some stage can you make Keith's 
12858
12859point for him.
1286018/01/2016, 16:07 - K Mohan: Please could someone make a point for me, 
12861
12862VERY FIRMLY.
12863
12864PLEASE do not use any comparison with the consultant contract 
12865
12866negotiations in your public statements whether to the media or members. 
12867
12868You may use them in the negotiating room but not outside.
12869
12870By the way, I suspect that am extension of plain time further into the 
12871
12872evenings for consultants will be a significant factor persuading 
12873
12874consultants to vote against it.
12875
12876Thank you,
12877Keith
12878Chair of CC
1287918/01/2016, 16:09 - L J Davis: Was the by the way something he wants 
12880
12881read out too?
1288218/01/2016, 16:10 - L J Davis: I can channel david again & read if you 
12883
12884want...
1288518/01/2016, 16:11 - C Castles: Did Johann just say he was going to ask 
12886
12887JDC for a vote, but if they voted against, then exec would ultimately 
12888
12889have the vote? Or did I mishear him?
1289018/01/2016, 16:12 - A Collins: I dunno, I wasn't listening properly
1289118/01/2016, 16:12 - A Collins: yes LJD I think that is what Keith would 
12892
12893like.
1289418/01/2016, 16:12 - A Collins: You could perhaps be JDC's medium once 
12895
12896again?
1289718/01/2016, 16:28 - Z Greaves: No he said he wanted Jdc to vote to give 
12898
12899exec the decision making autonomy it already has the right to without a 
12900
12901vote even happening
1290218/01/2016, 16:29 - K Mohan: At some stage can someone reiterate not to 
12903
12904mention the cc deal outside this room please
1290518/01/2016, 16:29 - Z Greaves: Tactical move
1290618/01/2016, 16:29 - L J Davis: Anyone got an iPhone charger?
1290718/01/2016, 16:29 - K Mohan: what iphone
1290818/01/2016, 16:29 - K Mohan: or which iPhone rather?
1290918/01/2016, 16:30 - L J Davis: Erm. One with a little plug?
1291018/01/2016, 16:30 - K Mohan: ???
1291118/01/2016, 16:30 - A Collins: she means a lightning connecter
1291218/01/2016, 16:30 - A Collins: *connector
1291318/01/2016, 16:31 - L J Davis: I do, I do!
1291418/01/2016, 16:32 - K Mohan: bringing mine over now.
1291518/01/2016, 16:32 - K Mohan: it'll be seamless
1291618/01/2016, 16:32 - L J Davis: No one will notice!!!
1291718/01/2016, 16:38 - A Sami: Can someone make my point please
1291818/01/2016, 16:40 - K Mohan: can you repost it?
1291918/01/2016, 16:40 - A Sami: If we suspend early, the other side might 
12920
12921understand that we might agree to Saturday as a plain time considering 
12922
12923Friday's offer
12924
12925IF we leave the pressure on this week and call it off on Friday, then 
12926
12927the maximum pressure will be applied on the other side regarding the 
12928
12929Saturday rather  than seem quickly to call it off today
1293018/01/2016, 16:42 - A Sami: We are here to deliver the best contract 
12931
12932for our members. Members will forgive us for calling IA on Friday 
12933
12934rather than tomorrow>BUT, I do not think they will  forgive us if we 
12935
12936deliver the wrong contract
1293718/01/2016, 16:42 - A Yassaee: If we called off on Friday, what's the 
12938
12939impact on hospitals?
1294018/01/2016, 16:43 - A Collins: all of the effect, none of the safety 
12941
12942issues
1294318/01/2016, 16:43 - A Collins: its basically like the NZ strikes. Its 
12944
12945actually perfect...
1294618/01/2016, 16:43 - A Yassaee: I'm aware we essentially got a free day 
12947
12948of IA with the first walkout.
1294918/01/2016, 16:48 - A Collins: so... what is going to be our reason for 
12950
12951striking?
1295218/01/2016, 16:48 - A Collins: Talking tactics? Negative press
12953	New leader? David Dalton? We didn't ask for him, and we don't 
12954
12955want him
12956	Tube strikes? We've discussed that's not a great idea.
1295718/01/2016, 16:49 - A Yassaee: Cancelling one annoys members but doesnt 
12958
12959really buy much public support. Postponing both or go ahead are really 
12960
12961the only two  options.
1296218/01/2016, 16:51 - A Sami: Also, the infrastructure for IA as already 
12963
12964in place. It is not huge problem to postpone (if necessary)
1296518/01/2016, 16:53 - C Castles: i dont understand the point of this vote
1296618/01/2016, 16:53 - C Castles: can exec not do this anyway?
1296718/01/2016, 16:54 - A Sami: Inclusiveness and getting a self-re-
12968
12969assurance that JDC is behind us
1297018/01/2016, 16:54 - A Sami: I am guessing
1297118/01/2016, 16:55 - A Yassaee: Yes
1297218/01/2016, 16:55 - A Yassaee: To preserve friendship.
1297318/01/2016, 16:55 - C Castles: but if the vote against, then its 
12974
12975awkward
1297618/01/2016, 16:55 - A Collins: And solidarity
1297718/01/2016, 16:55 - K Mohan: yes but this is to get jdcs backing if we 
12978
12979choose to
1298018/01/2016, 16:56 - C Castles: i thought exec already had jdc's suppprt
1298118/01/2016, 16:56 - C Castles: in general
1298218/01/2016, 16:56 - Z Greaves: Yes it's tactical to keep Jdc on board 
12983
12984when we do postpone
1298518/01/2016, 16:56 - A Collins: Well I think we want more. Which is 
12986
12987important in this case
1298818/01/2016, 16:56 - C Castles: i just cant see what this adds
1298918/01/2016, 16:57 - A Yassaee: Friendship.
1299018/01/2016, 16:57 - A Collins: And solidarity
1299118/01/2016, 17:00 - Z Greaves: A social media army - if we make the 
12992
12993decision we need 80 people out there explaining why it's a good idea
1299418/01/2016, 17:02 - ?L Elliott: Just to rant. How am I meant to sit in 
12995
12996my LNC tomorrow knowing what we are discussing means nothing and is a 
12997
12998waste of everyone's time? Equally I have to hand over all the picket 
12999
13000stuff to my strike team at my hospital. I cannot send emails around at 
13001
13002the weekend to address concerns and get the message out as staffing are 
13003
13004not there. Please can we VC at the earliest opportunity.
1300518/01/2016, 17:03 - A Yassaee: I dont want to dismiss concerns but I 
13006
13007honestly think that's a general difficulty with confidential 
13008
13009negotiations.
1301018/01/2016, 17:04 - Y Gourtsouyannis: Careful zoe ur penultimate msg 
13011
13012comes across a little machiavellian. I would say Zoe that the decision 
13013
13014to postpone has not yet been taken. It's to keep JDC onboard IF we 
13015
13016postpone. I admit that we are indeed likely to postpone and there is 
13017
13018some valid argument for it.
1301918/01/2016, 17:08 - A Sami: I feel your pain, Lottie.
13020
13021What if we do not postpone? What if everything goes tits up during the 
13022
13023week because of whatever? For example, if the other side was expecting 
13024
13025us to agree to the letter they sent last Friday?
13026
13027I am preparing my region for IA as if it is going to happen. I am 
13028
13029heavily involved, even in placards making session. I do this knowing 
13030
13031that the IA might, but not yet, be postponed.
13032
13033NEXT PART: http://pastebin.com/qn861sVq