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1Pacifica
2#7149
3
4 
5Morriña06/28/2019
6@Pacifica
7Can you screencap me the master doc roster
8For each tea
9Team
10 
11uncountablyInfinite06/28/2019
12@Morriña
13
14 
15Morriña06/28/2019
16Thx
17 
18carvor06/29/2019
19So
20I just got this
21from an anonymous contrib
22Redacted  Today at 1:02 AM
23Actually
24Theres like one thing
25Can you explain to me why Panzer's gotten so Authoritarian?
26Like
27When I first joined the team, it actually seemed like a community, and this was in Feburary and stuff
28And it still felt that way after the demo
29But just recently it seems like instead of it being a project, its become a one man ship
30And i disagree with him saying that it isnt him
31When he was gone, to me at least, it seemed to actually go back to us being together
32And then he camp back and rerouted some of the stuff we were doing, even though our solutions were a hell of a lot better
33Case in point, the fucking tech icons
34We have the most confusing tree out of any mod Ive made
35And the artists FINALLY found a good solution
36And he just came back in and tore it up
37That really didn't seem like him, so I kind of just gave it a pass
38But then he comes to the round table and basicly says "fuck off if you dont like the way its going"
39That made me mad
40And Im not saying he should resign or apologize or anything
41But damn
42I want the old panzer back
43The guy I admired, the guy I respected above all else
44The one I could trust to listen to my problems
45The one that gave me a vouch after the second purge
46carvorToday at 1:05 AM
47I guess that after the leaks he feels like he has to regain control of the team, and maybe after the whole bread thing he thinks he needs to get better control over the team, to be honest its concerning me as well
48Redacted Today at 1:06 AM
49He had control of his team
50Everyone Im friends with on the team, after the purges and demo, still talked positively about panzer
51Its just like hes gotten super paranoid or something
52I know we all joked about us turning into Death of Stalin
53But its actually fucking happening
54and I really dont want it to
55And what happened with Bread? I just thought he was burned out
56And if that was true, then why the hell would panzer be worried?
57@everyone Really sorry but this needs to be adressed
58 
59Pacifica06/29/2019
60There is nothing I fear more than pings from this server
61Yes, I agree.
62 
63Morriña06/29/2019
64Bread's reasoning for leaving iirc was that he just didn't have the time
65 
66mupper06/29/2019
67yeah
68 
69Pacifica06/29/2019
70It is concerning.
71 
72Morriña06/29/2019
73and the tech icon incident was
74it was bad
75 
76mupper06/29/2019
77should we send out another letter, like last time?
78 
79carvor06/29/2019
80ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
81would he listen?
82 
83uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
84it's worth a shot at least imo
85 
86mupper06/29/2019
87yeah
88 
89Morriña06/29/2019
90I feel bad for the tech icon debacle
91since I shifted the blame off to the tech artists
92I felt like I was putting Hadaril under the bus because I didn't want my own hide being skinned
93 
94GreatSalmon06/29/2019
95Yeah iirc bread left because he was working 2 jobs
96 
97Pacifica06/29/2019
98His statements point to believing that he is the only one on the team who isn’t wholly expendable.
99With referring to how TNO was developed as a one man team before
100 
101Morriña06/29/2019
102That isn't even true iirc
103in fact the reason why a lot of people in the co-op that have helped Panzer months if not years before was because they were part of the team but feel like he's unable to acknowledge it
104at least that is what I've heard from gunnar ofc
105I dmed kracc for help over the tech gui and he told me actually that "The Co-op is tired of constantly having to bail out TNO"
106 
107GreatSalmon06/29/2019
108oof
109 
110Morriña06/29/2019
111then I went to Cherios and the first thing he assumed when I asked for help from him was "did you guys break something again"
112 
113carvor06/29/2019
114Was the roundtable really that bad
115 
116Morriña06/29/2019
117From what I've heard Panzer was denying the allegations of morale dropping instead of resolving it
118 
119mupper06/29/2019
120it was pretty bad
121
122 
123Pacifica06/29/2019
124ThePinkPanzerLast Thursday at 5:25 PM
125If you wish to leave I'm going to need you to do so
126I don't want you to but the constant back and forth over the matter is part of the issue I was talking about
127PacificaLast Thursday at 5:30 PM
128I have no intentions to leave so long as I have confidence my work will not go to waste.
129I am absolutely not going to leave without being coerced with the current state of the team/mod.
130 
131Morriña06/29/2019
132the issue I have is morale but at the higher level it's poor organization
133very very poor logistics, little to no precedents being established (and actually enforced) when it comes to production and coding and lack of coordination really
134Really cemented my belief in why I think there'll probably be a crunch over the preferential release date
135I have two examples of this
136The First being the time I wasn't team lead and the Second being the demo
137I had around 3 different answers towards why I wasn't picked and why Bread was picked
138nobody had a concrete answer and (it seemed to me) everyone was unwilling to actually share what the actual reasoning was,
139the three reasons were
140A) China and Japan narratively was behind ergo Bread needed to be team lead to tie it together (Which was dropped as the main point of contention like, the day later)
141B) Panzer wanted a stability candidate that would be reliable (Which if analyzed towards what he was doing to bread doesn't really stand to water and seems like he treated bread as if he was a machine learning administration robot rather than a human being
142
143The third reason I forgot since it was from months ago but the point is is that there isn't any uniformity when it comes to vital decisions
144a lot of them are often without precedent and waver based on whoever is testifying at the given moment and really that leads to a lot of issues
145the Demo was also a testament to that
146given the fact that it wasn't until Friday iirc when the team realized that 1/5 of the mod wasn't even done apparently and needed to put a week's worth of content done in the course of roughly 2 days
147and Orenburg apparently being reworked from the ground up (or whatever the incident was) that caused content to be disjointed in presentation as well as caused an entire panic due to people not realizing even to what magnitude orenburg needed to be reworked
148I genuinely think that the week goal was reasonable but the issue was was that the organization issues and the poor logistics of the situation kept stacking upon itself to the point upon which it seemed less and less likely
149add to that the insanely impromptu addition of vastly foreign content (read: endslides) and it was bound to lead to this sort of disaster from day 1
150This isn't even to mention the incapability of properly distributing teams or the inability for a time schedule to be set up on what needed to be done, when it needed to be done and knowing the basics of the area
151It still is mind boggling to me how one of the teams with the most contributors ended up on culture work which was gfx heavy, while a single team with a single person was left out to dry to do a single warlord
152What ended up happening in the former was that one person ended up doing all the gfx while the others, I have no idea what happened
153the issue to me is  (while morale declining is important, it's inevitable given the leadership being the way it is) the absolutely horrendous sense of logistics of the situation and just how poor it has been shown time and time again and Panzer being unable to actually change it to some extent
154We can see it in Cornwall (No offense to you Salmon) which hasn't gotten content until DocOverbuild was on. We can see it in practically every PanzerProjekt or Panzerdiktat that was ordered. The poor organization and lack of communication that led consequently to it falling behind tremendously to the surrounding group.
155Idk those are just my thoughts on the matter, Idk if I am right or not on the issue
156 
157carvor06/29/2019
158I mean the reason why the mod isint done right now is because for the first 2 years team orginization was so bad that literally nothing got done
159 
160Morriña06/29/2019
161Exactly, tbh
162I hate to be the one that says this but morale ebbs and flows, and based on how tno is designed in making this "levée en masse" system contribs come in and check out like the waves of an economy. It's the fact that panzer doesn't seem to respond to the failings associated and whenever the wave comes up again or down again he fails to actually respond differently to the same mistakes presented before
163@GreatSalmon you were saying something ?
164but yeah Id o agree though that what panzer is doing by now is just, strange to be honest, it's very gung ho and just alienating
165 
166GreatSalmon06/29/2019
167Ye the reason why Cornwall wasn’t being worked on is because Panzer didn’t want Cornwall or post-ECW england being worked on until pre-ECW England was in working conditions
168Which to a degree I think is fair
169 
170Morriña06/29/2019
171Wasn’t cornwall under Panzer’s direct jurisdiction for a time though ?
172 
173GreatSalmon06/29/2019
174All of England was
175those were the dark times
176 
177Morriña06/29/2019
178What happened ?
179 
180GreatSalmon06/29/2019
181Massive neglect led to Lovecraftian code that wasn’t even close to being functional
182Same thing that happened with kracc’s tenure as Britain dev iirc
183 
184Morriña06/29/2019
185Oof
186 
187carvor06/29/2019
188tfw Germany had literally no work done untill I got on it
189 
190Morriña06/29/2019
191Oooof
192 
193carvor06/29/2019
194None of the foci had effects
195just skeleton shit
196as far as the eyes can see
197 
198Morriña06/29/2019
199Isnt speer still skeleton ?
200 
201GreatSalmon06/29/2019
202England team actually got its ass in gear once Zero and I became official TL’s
203 
204carvor06/29/2019
205and I had to make Görings economy variable system from scratch
206idk what the status on speer is
207Like 15% done
208I want to cut warplan C
209If we do that we can get Göring done within a month
210 
211Morriña06/29/2019
212I’m planning on getting Japan done by July too yeah
213I’m going to slowly move my contributors more and more on to Indonesia and other minors as China does that too
214 
215mupper06/29/2019
216india's effectively done sans 3 trees and pakistan before collaborating with sphere and trium
217 
218GreatSalmon06/29/2019
219God knows when England will get done
220We’re making amazing progress rn but we’re so far behind many other teams
221 
222mupper06/29/2019
223its nice to see england with so much getting done on it
224 
225Morriña06/29/2019
226yeah
227 
228GreatSalmon06/29/2019
229Yeah its really cathartic to see stuff getting done after so long
230 
231Morriña06/29/2019
232the decision to get minors done before England proper post ECW was pretty vexing to me
233 
234GreatSalmon06/29/2019
235Honestly it wasn’t a big deal
2363 years of focus tree content to support England’s was something I thought was agreeable
237 
238Morriña06/29/2019
239Yeah
240Of course y'all know me and bread's thoughts on
241Jaabn's process during kracc's tenure
242 
243Pacifica06/29/2019
244Imo I fucked up with my design decisions as Iberia dev.
245But that’s part of one’s personal growth.
246 
247Morriña06/29/2019
248ofc
249 
250GreatSalmon06/29/2019
251@Pacifica just out of curiosity, how so?
252 
253mupper06/29/2019
254i dont even know if my old content is hooked up tbh
255 
256GreatSalmon06/29/2019
257Iberia dev is like, a massive inspiration for me tbh
258 
259Pacifica06/29/2019
260I didn’t really know how to make truly engaging content
261I only really learned how to make things truly good while working on the Urals
262 
263GreatSalmon06/29/2019
264Idk I had a good time when I was fooling around with Iberia
265 
266Pacifica06/29/2019
267Current Iberia team makes much better, more in-depth, and more engaging content than I did
268My Russia work is the best I’ve done quite honestly.
269 
270carvor06/29/2019
271My biggest problem right now is the Göring variables tbh
272They are in
273And sorta work
274But since they were fucking designed on a whim by someone who did not have to code them and had no idea how they would work they dont really fit together with the rest of the content
275 
276Morriña06/29/2019
277ooof
278 
279Pacifica06/29/2019
280And yes, Panzer tends to turn code-based things into dumpster fires with a touch.
281 
282GreatSalmon06/29/2019
283I’m so thankful I have full reign on England lore now
284 
285Morriña06/29/2019
286I don't mean to tout but Japan as a whole is going to have around 16 paths and is scoped to be done by July :muscle: :muscle: :muscle: ooh ooh ah ah
287 
288mango06/29/2019
289fuck u morr, 2 path master race
290 
291carvor06/29/2019
292Yeah but is it actually any fun
293 
294Pacifica06/29/2019
295^
296 
297Morriña06/29/2019
298Fun is something that comes from trial and error
299 
300Pacifica06/29/2019
301In general, we must have a plan and policy design for a more functional team/leadership.
302 
303carvor06/29/2019
304Youre gonna have to rework a bunch of stuff after you finish, thats just from my experience
305 
306Morriña06/29/2019
307yeah
308 
309Pacifica06/29/2019
310So, lay it out.
311 
312Morriña06/29/2019
313You think the teams that we lead (Goring/italy/japan/England/India) are going to be done by August ?
314I dmed panzer on May I believe and he said that he scoped the finish date at around august
315 
316Pacifica06/29/2019
317Bruh
318 
319carvor06/29/2019
320If warplan C is cut and I get out of my slump I see Göring finishing pretty soon
321 
322Pacifica06/29/2019
323Russia will be nowhere close
324 
325Morriña06/29/2019
326in terms of raw numbers what worked for me was a time table and constant checks of progress of each of the people that are working for me
327 
328carvor06/29/2019
329tfw only 2 contribs and both on break
330 
331Morriña06/29/2019
332I'm doing the bulk of russia work rn
333 
334uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
335tfw 1 active contrib
336 
337Morriña06/29/2019
338I've finished Uzbekistan's tree and I'm about to be finished with the authdem path so uzbekistan's finished
339 
340mango06/29/2019
341tfw competent gamer contrib quit :whyismauriceherejusttosuffer:
342 
343Morriña06/29/2019
344I wish I didn't have to do stuff for Russia but
345 
346carvor06/29/2019
347tfw Last contrib to join Germany did nothing for 3 months then caused massive drama
348 
349Morriña06/29/2019
350I dno't think it's going to get done if all its contribs are going to be away
351@mango rip
352 
353mango06/29/2019
354asratius is apparently active on other servers, just not TNO
355 
356Morriña06/29/2019
357I see him around on EaW
358 
359mango06/29/2019
360he said hed be back by July, he als he said hed be back 2 weeks ago
361 
362carvor06/29/2019
363You know looking back initially reich had a pretty good team
364We even had Cyrus
365Who can shit out trees like no tomorrow
366 
367Pacifica06/29/2019
368I suspect that Panzer doesn't care if TNO doesn't release, so long as it 'dies with dignity'.
369 
370Morriña06/29/2019
371Cyrus was a madlad, yeah
372 
373GreatSalmon06/29/2019
374August? Yeah that’s a no from me chief
375 
376Pacifica06/29/2019
377Morr, go back to Japan.
378I can handle Russia.
379 
380Morriña06/29/2019
381smh
382I want my uzbek turanism
383 
384mupper06/29/2019
385anyways, on the matter of more functional team stuff uhhhhh
386 
387Pacifica06/29/2019
388Present a planning doc and I'll work it in.
389 
390carvor06/29/2019
391I wish I could just retcon like all Germany lore t b h
392 
393Morriña06/29/2019
394@carvor holy shit
395 
396GreatSalmon06/29/2019
397What’s bad with it
398 
399Morriña06/29/2019
400I was actually nervous of saying that
401but yeah
402Holy shit yes
403 
404carvor06/29/2019
405It just doesnt make sense
406 
407Morriña06/29/2019
408There's nothing cold war about it
409It literally is more pre ww2 than it is cold war
410I talked to lazer about it and like there were just so many similarities between it and literally taishō japan of all things
411Also Speer apparently not knowing about the holocaust is kind of yikes! yikes! yikes!
412 
413mango06/29/2019
414^
415 
416carvor06/29/2019
417maybe someone would have noticed if anyone had actually started developing one of the most important nations in the entire mod in the entire history of the mod
418 
419mupper06/29/2019
420mfw the two big superpowers everyone cares about in tno are linked to japan and india
421 
422carvor06/29/2019
423And he does know
424Where did you get that info?
425 
426Morriña06/29/2019
427keegan said it in dev chat which was
428I was kind of shocked and I'm still
429a bit skeptical
430 
431carvor06/29/2019
432what the fuck
433when did he say that
434 
435Pacifica06/29/2019
436Moskowien.
437 
438carvor06/29/2019
439The only thing I can see is Keegan saying that Speer would probably destroy evidence of the holocaust
440 
441Morriña06/29/2019
442I swear I saw something about Speer not knowing about
443something
444like he looks at something and he realizes it in horror
445It sounded a lot like uhm
446 
447carvor06/29/2019
448What?
449Can you show me a screenshot or something
450 
451Morriña06/29/2019
452I'm trying to look for it
453 
454mango06/29/2019
455found it
456
457
458Morriña06/29/2019
459ech I must have misconstrued something
460I thought I remembered keegan saying something about it but it must've been someone else
461 
462mango06/29/2019
463morr starting conspiracy smh
464 
465Morriña06/29/2019
466Sorry about that carv
467 
468carvor06/29/2019
469Fucking hell
470 
471Morriña06/29/2019
472Actually
473I have the thing I sent to lazer
474about the taisho comparisons to TNO Germany
475Goring is the Rikken Seiyukai
476Speer is either Konoye or Taisho in general
477Heydrich si the Kodoha/Cherry Blossom Society
478Bormann is like the makoto/Okada cabinet
479or the NU Cabinets that emerged after Inukai Tsuyoshi got assassinated
480Also I have no idea what the difference is between Bormann and Speidel
481 
482carvor06/29/2019
483Speidel is less of a nazi
484 
485Morriña06/29/2019
486yeah I suppose
487 
488carvor06/29/2019
489More of an Italian fascist I suppose
490 
491mupper06/29/2019
492anyways on a more functional team policy thing;
493
494-listen more to lower-ranking team members
495-be more accommodating rather than saying "if you dont like things, leave", "why are you dying on this hill", and yelling at people
496--address contrib/artist/grey criticisms among devs
497-be less paranoid all the time
498--grey vouching, if not removal of the vouch system altogether in favour of whatevers decided on
499
500maybe more idk
501 
502Morriña06/29/2019
503I think
504the best replacement for the vouch system
505is just asking the team at the time
506"is X person joining okay with all of you"
507and if everyone says yes then just let them in
508there's no vouch but the security system remains intact
509 
510carvor06/29/2019
511There are several team members who would not have gotten in on that system
512At leats ones I would have said "no" to
513And they are members who i think are valuable contributors
514 
515Morriña06/29/2019
516oof
517 
518Pacifica06/29/2019
519The culture of paranoia must die.
520
521    We care too much about leaks and leakers. I personally believe that the best course of action in the case of a leak is to censor it from all official channels, and ban the person responsible, but otherwise just disregard it. Make an announcement that there will never be another purge.
522
523Regarding our worry about spoilers, if people don't wish to be spoiled, they won't play it. People play leaks based on their own volition, they aren't forced into it. Censoring information gained from leaked builds, as well as major spoilers, etc, would be the limit of  proposed policy.
524
525The extreme secrecy, to the point of actively harming our own team, that we pose when dealing with the prospect of leaks is an extreme morale-killer. If there is ever to be another purge, I sincerely believe that it shall be the end of TNO. Leakers know that purges do more damage than leaks ever will, we have become infamous for them, and this notoriety comes at a cost to recruitment and internal team morale.
526Panzer already turned this all down
527But it sums up my stance well.
528 
529carvor06/29/2019
530look
531 
532mango06/29/2019
533yall were at the round table when he dropped who he believes leaked the lore doc right?
534 
535Pacifica06/29/2019
536He was wrong.
537 
538carvor06/29/2019
539barely anyone except panzer cares about leaks
540 
541mango06/29/2019
542obviously, why would that person do it
543 
544Pacifica06/29/2019
545We need to stop LARPing as the fucking CIA
546 
547carvor06/29/2019
548Who did he name?
549 
550Pacifica06/29/2019
551Metta.
552 
553mango06/29/2019
554Mett
555 
556Pacifica06/29/2019
557It wasn't her.
558 
559carvor06/29/2019
560An instance where I am biased I suppose
561 
562Pacifica06/29/2019
563Now, my investigation did get a name.
564From multiple sources.
565 
566Morriña06/29/2019
567metta was hospitalized because of the abuse she received apparently
568 
569GreatSalmon06/29/2019
570Ye metta wasn’t the leaker
571 
572Pacifica06/29/2019
573Almost every source named Lilly.
574No sources named Metta.
575
576Metta attempted suicide recently.
577I saved her life.
578 
579Morriña06/29/2019
580She's a sweet girl at heart it's just that she's often very rash
581 
582Pacifica06/29/2019
583Others may have contributed idk
584But I was there.
585 
586Morriña06/29/2019
587yeah so was thunderslav
588I regret not helping her
589 
590uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
591^
592 
593mupper06/29/2019
594same
595 
596mango06/29/2019
597main thing is immediately after that a couple people started ragging on her
598 
599Pacifica06/29/2019
600Thunderslav and I saved her
601 
602carvor06/29/2019
603Who was ragging on her?
604 
605mango06/29/2019
606Panzer told them to stop but i didnt identify who said it cause it was said through voice
607 
608Pacifica06/29/2019
609And, you know
610Everything else he's done.
611Does anyone here actually give a shit about leaks
612 
613mango06/29/2019
614no
615 
616mupper06/29/2019
617no
618 
619Morriña06/29/2019
620no
621 
622uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
623nope
624 
625GreatSalmon06/29/2019
626I mean
627They’re kind of depressing
628But purges are really overkill
629 
630mango06/29/2019
631panzer played the "they get inside the team and screw with us" or whatever, hed probably counter with that or something
632 
633carvor06/29/2019
634I dont care at this point
635 
636mango06/29/2019
637at this point purges clearly cause more trouble than the leakers "gettin inside" but it make him epic funney figurehead saving the mod tho!!!!!
638 
639GreatSalmon06/29/2019
640Yep
641 
642uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
643this
644 
645Morriña06/29/2019
646the leakers at the time just want to get a rise out of us
647 
648Pacifica06/29/2019
649They want us to purge.
650What's the worst they could do if they got inside
651Push CTDs?
652Congrats that's literally no worse than things I've done by accident
653 
654Morriña06/29/2019
655yeah
656 
657mupper06/29/2019
658yeah
659 
660mango06/29/2019
661say slurs
662 
663carvor06/29/2019
664Alright at this point its pretty clear that another letter is in order
665 
666Pacifica06/29/2019
667I don't believe that will accomplish anything, but if there's anything I'm good at, it's forlorn hopes.
668BTW who owns the copyright on TNO
669 
670uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
671imo the most important thing with a new letter is to make sure we call panzer out when he violates the rules we put in the letter
672 
673Pacifica06/29/2019
674Is it Panzer
675 
676mango06/29/2019
677did he really copyright TNO
678 
679GreatSalmon06/29/2019
680Panzer is pretty set on another purge if a leak happens so a letter is indeed in order
681 
682Morriña06/29/2019
683Yeah
684 
685Pacifica06/29/2019
686Here's why I don't think it will accomplish anything.
687 
688Morriña06/29/2019
689the reason why the first letter failed was just because nobody called him out when he broke the rule
690like that
691stupid
692stupid
693start screen controversy
694everyone says "Things are becoming more toxic" but the implication is that calling people out when they break the rules is toxic
695 
696uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
697who is "everyone" here
698 
699Morriña06/29/2019
700not many people now that I think about it
701 
702Pacifica06/29/2019
7031. He has made it clear that we are all expendable, and he is willing to go back to one-man development.
7042. He has stated that TNO 'dying with dignity' is just fine. To translate - 'TNO dying is fine, so long as I'm in charge'.
7053. We cannot actually do anything to enforce this beyond leaving - which he is perfectly fine with, as it saves his ego.
7064. He owns the TNO copyright, we cannot split and continue development.
707 
708carvor06/29/2019
709Sure we can
710 
711Morriña06/29/2019
712yeah he's not going to sue us lmao
713 
714mango06/29/2019
715he likes the "personality cult" he has despite saying he doesnt, right?
716 
717Pacifica06/29/2019
718Unknown.
719 
720mango06/29/2019
721then whats the big deal with "I'm in charge" for him?
722 
723Morriña06/29/2019
7241. Organization is shit, nothing is done with precedent and everything seems random
7252. Refuses to acknowledge problems and just assumes everyone is wrong
7263. Fuhrer prinzip ?????
7274. "It's my mod"
728"It's my mod" is like
729the most bothersome thing about this
730no it isn't
731like
732the localization is done by greytides
733the art is done by artists
734the contribs do all the actual work
735 
736Pacifica06/29/2019
737He believes TNO is completely his, because he started work 5 years ago.
738 
739Morriña06/29/2019
740the rp that it was based off of lasted for like 3 turns apparently
741 
742uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
743*the contribs/devs do all the actual code work
744 
745Pacifica06/29/2019
746And that we are all working to fulfill his vision.
747 
748Morriña06/29/2019
749yeah that's what I meant
750I wasn't sold on TNO as "emulator of this one forum RP that was had a couple of years ago"
751 
752Pacifica06/29/2019
753Anyway, TNO is all of you, yes
754YYou all own it just as much as I
755However at the end of the day
756I made the mod with a vision in mind
757The team came after I did, we're working towards our own visions but ultimately, I'm working towards mine.
758It's why I've been the one to approve all lore at the end of the day
759I wish I could say it was each one of us contributing to a combined vision, but that's not really TNO. It's not like KR where we're all building up from our own.
760 
761carvor06/29/2019
762If he wants to keep his vision intact that he can do so alone, I seriously doubt he wants to do that
763 
764Pacifica06/29/2019
765Panzer #League Gang05/02/2019
766oh my god dont be a cunt too
767It's my fucking mod
768I will decide what is God damn best for it
769If you want to accuse me of shitting up my own work then you can leave.
770 
771carvor06/29/2019
772Part of working within a team is achieving a compromise between the visions of the various people that are working on the project
773If he wont accept that, then he will have to make the fucking mod on his own
774 
775Morriña06/29/2019
776Yeah
777 
778mupper06/29/2019
779right
780 
781uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
782^
783 
784Pacifica06/29/2019
785Last time we did this, we had completely unanimous and universal support.
786Now, he has an absolute sycophantic puppet as dev.
787Thus denying us that crucial bit of 'unanimous' legitimacy in the letter.
788 
789Morriña06/29/2019
790as much work as debbel does I still fear for if Debbel becomes lead developer out of the stance of what will happen to the team
791 
792Pacifica06/29/2019
793PacificaLast Wednesday at 1:30 AM
794Everything I proposed was shot down
795Everything
796[REDACTED]Last Wednesday at 1:31 AM
797Ouch
798PacificaLast Wednesday at 1:31 AM
799I’m the same I always am
800An ineffectual bureaucrat who compromises my morals for the greater good every single time I need to do something
801[REDACTED]Last Wednesday at 1:31 AM
802You're good
803You try. But some people just dont see the writing on the wall or just to self centered
804The mod wont release this year
805But its not your fault
806PacificaLast Wednesday at 1:33 AM
807I stay on because I don’t trust anyone to not mess up what I’ve built and people like you have expanded upon
808If I step down, who takes over Komi?
809Who takes over Soviet?
810[REDACTED]Last Wednesday at 1:33 AM
811I feel the same way about some of my stuff
812[REDACTED]
813[REDACTED]is mine and [REDACTED]s
814PacificaLast Wednesday at 1:34 AM
815That is genuinely the worst reason anyone on the team has to stay on, and it’s all I have in addition to my friends
816[REDACTED]Last Wednesday at 1:34 AM
817Yeah
818Oh well. Maybe when its just them and some sycophants theyll see. Itll be too late then
819 
820mupper06/29/2019
821:frowning:
822 
823uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
824:frowning:
825 
826Pacifica06/29/2019
827If Debbel becomes lead dev
828Oh god we're all fucked
829I'd put my support behind Carvor.
830 
831Morriña06/29/2019
832or me lmao
833 
834mango06/29/2019
835how does he plan on appointing LD?
836 
837carvor06/29/2019
838oh god oh fuck
839 
840Pacifica06/29/2019
841@carvor You have flaws but you're better than the alternative.
842 
843mango06/29/2019
844vote or what?
845 
846Morriña06/29/2019
847I'm staying on until Japan is done
848 
849carvor06/29/2019
850Yeah lmao nah bruh im burnt out and hate the lore
851 
852mupper06/29/2019
853i dont really know what to do outside of india
854 
855Morriña06/29/2019
856I want developer by then so I can be considered "on the ticket" for lead developer
857 
858Pacifica06/29/2019
859Look, nobody will ever be LD but Panzer, realistically. He's not going to give up his absolute power, even if it means that he works alone.
860If need be (oh god) I'll take the mantle of power.
861 
862Morriña06/29/2019
863Smh
864yeah I don't think I'm gonna get dev tbh regardless of how much I end up doing for Panzer
865 
866Pacifica06/29/2019
867Lead Developer Atomic?
868@Morriña It would be a crime if you didn't get dev.
869 
870mupper06/29/2019
871just realised we forgot about atomic
872 
873uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
874:pray:
875 
876mupper06/29/2019
877also this
878 
879Morriña06/29/2019
880would y'all support me if Panzer leaves and I end up getting some degree of clout to get lead dev
881 
882mango06/29/2019
883i thought he was in this previously
884
885Pacifica06/29/2019
886We also need Ackbar.
887And Atomic was with us, yes
888@Morriña I would.
889 
890Morriña06/29/2019
891I'm attempting to, at least, do the same thing as nuclear
892 
893Pacifica06/29/2019
894But I'm... a weathervane.
895Because of the sort of person I am.
896 
897Morriña06/29/2019
898that is without being a really hurtful person
899 
900carvor06/29/2019
901No need to bring that up here
902 
903Morriña06/29/2019
904sorry
905 
906carvor06/29/2019
907Anyway anyone got a gdoc started?
908 
909GreatSalmon06/29/2019
910Tbh I’m more in favor of a dev council
911 
912Pacifica06/29/2019
913I suppose as is tradition
914I'll set it off.
915 
916Morriña06/29/2019
917the dev council will be nice but
918 
919mango06/29/2019
920@GreatSalmon this
921 
922carvor06/29/2019
923Council with rotating lead dev based on dev elections with term limits
924:dab:
925 
926Morriña06/29/2019
927yes!!!
928 
929Pacifica06/29/2019
930https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XUaTfqMvq9QrxGdRlgHDBI7jz1R1kXqUyadv-ichXL0/edit
931Google Docs
932Developer Council Note II
933 
934Morriña06/29/2019
935deleonist TNO model
936 
937GreatSalmon06/29/2019
938With an upper and lower house
939 
940Pacifica06/29/2019
941We're not FR
942 
943mupper06/29/2019
944ew democracy
945 
946carvor06/29/2019
947No constitiutions please
948 
949GreatSalmon06/29/2019
950Lmao
951 
952Pacifica06/29/2019
953I believe in democracy, but not the shit FR did.
954 
955GreatSalmon06/29/2019
956constitutional monarchy
957 
958Pacifica06/29/2019
959We do need a strong LD, just a competent one.
960 
961GreatSalmon06/29/2019
962England gang
963 
964Pacifica06/29/2019
965The Developer Council will run off of modified Democratic Centralism.
966 
967Morriña06/29/2019
968i tihnk there should be a lead dev at least for a month
969or two
970not because I'm against the dev council
971but because there needs to be someone to rally around instead of panzer
972and really it's just luck of the draw that they don't become as bad I suppose
973 
974Pacifica06/29/2019
975I generally have faith in everyone but Debbel.
976But I don't think Debbel should lose his position.
977I didn't think Bread would be as good as he was.
978 
979Morriña06/29/2019
980yeah
981 
982Pacifica06/29/2019
983Let me invite Ackbar and Atomic
984 
985GreatSalmon06/29/2019
986Yes pls
987 
988mango06/29/2019
989inb4 theyre secret panzer sleepers and report us
990 
991carvor06/29/2019
992tfw I really liked Germany lore at first but then researched myself into disliking it
993 
994Morriña06/29/2019
995It's like that Japan proposal lol
996Alz thought it was good but like
997once I got in by November I just
998couldn't get myself to like it
999 
1000mupper06/29/2019
1001i feel the same about the icw
1002 
1003Morriña06/29/2019
1004yeah
1005I feel the same way about army nuke navy epic epic epic
1006 
1007GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1008Ngl we shouldn’t do lead devs after panzer leaves because we’d just be replacing one personality cult for another
1009 
1010Pacifica06/29/2019
1011Ackbar is distressingly pro-Panzer
1012But I'll interview him
1013 
1014carvor06/29/2019
1015Clearly we should have a lead contrib instead
1016 
1017Pacifica06/29/2019
1018@GreatSalmon Give us all pin powers please.
1019 
1020mango06/29/2019
10211v1v1 me, morrina, and uncountably
1022 
1023Pacifica06/29/2019
1024Consider this a maximum-priority case.
1025 
1026uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1027@mango :gun:
1028 
1029mango06/29/2019
1030@uncountablyInfinite :shottodeath:
1031 
1032Morriña06/29/2019
1033@GreatSalmon me too but like
1034I got a lot of guarantees from former members
1035that if I become lead they'd consider coming back
1036Ghesor even said
1037"if youre lead I'm coming back"
1038 
1039Pacifica06/29/2019
1040Well you're certainly ambitious.
1041Perhaps rightfully so.
1042 
1043GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1044I’d wager that they’d have a similar opinion under a dev council
1045 
1046Morriña06/29/2019
1047yeah probably
1048 
1049uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1050i think it's less you specifically and more "not panzer"
1051 
1052Morriña06/29/2019
1053yeah
1054defnow that I think about it yeah
1055 
1056GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1057Btw should we also get Leon and Espy in here
1058 
1059Morriña06/29/2019
1060@LeonG17
1061 
1062mupper06/29/2019
1063leons in here
1064 
1065GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1066Oh rip
1067 
1068Morriña06/29/2019
1069smh
1070 
1071LeonG1706/29/2019
1072I'm just quiet since I having nothing to contribute right now, smh Salmon
1073 
1074GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1075@LeonG17 ily
1076Ok how bout espy
1077I really have no idea where he stands on this issue tbh
1078 
1079Morriña06/29/2019
1080tired af just want russia done
1081 
1082GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1083Fair enough
1084 
1085Pacifica06/29/2019
1086I just invited Espy
1087He supports me.
1088He suggested forking TNO in case something happens.
1089 
1090Morriña06/29/2019
1091forking was always an option
1092Never gonna give Admiral Ackbar up. Never gonna let Admiral Ackbar down.06/29/2019
1093 
1094uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1095hi
1096 
1097GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1098Sup
1099 
1100mupper06/29/2019
1101hi
1102 
1103Morriña06/29/2019
1104there are chat exporters out there in case that becomes a necessity
1105Hiya ackbar
1106 
1107GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1108Welcome to our shadowy cabal
1109 
1110Pacifica06/29/2019
1111Welcome to the union.
1112 
1113mango06/29/2019
1114anyways thats why i despise ackbar
1115 
1116Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1117hi
1118 
1119Morriña06/29/2019
1120Ackbar where's my aint I right christmas edition
1121 
1122mango06/29/2019
1123hello based gamer
1124 
1125Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1126That'll be on the Christmas album
1127 
1128mango06/29/2019
1129dont actually despise you btw
1130 
1131Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1132Don't worry, I don't despise you either
1133 
1134mango06/29/2019
1135vote me after morr or something
1136also drop christmas in july
1137 
1138Pacifica06/29/2019
1139THE LAST LETTER
1140https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PRAUDohvypZ1bdttt7tIs41fK5x7RLd6kqIIUiyuRAs/edit
1141Google Docs
1142Dev/Team Lead Letter
1143A Heartfelt Letter from the Team To start, our intention with this letter isn’t to beat you down or drive you from your own mod. We just have a lot of grievances we’d like to lay down on on the table collectively, without fear of individual retribution. The team culture ...
1144
1145For historical purposes.
1146 
1147GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1148I like history
1149 
1150Pacifica06/29/2019
1151THE RESPONSE.
1152https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tw8ZKD5UA1YbZvyL8Kqr8HfrnU9Q40GVRU3C8U56RoU/edit
1153Google Docs
1154Response to the fucking traitors
1155Fuck you too In all honesty I prayed I’d never be the mod lead to have one of these sent to him but I guess everybody needs to be told what’s wrong every once in a while. Before I start let me tell you all that you don’t need mass letters or threats of resignation or w...
1156
1157For archival reasons.
1158
1159Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1160Also, where did you get the idea that I was "distressingly pro-Panzer"
1161 
1162Morriña06/29/2019
1163that gfx artists spat
1164 
1165Pacifica06/29/2019
1166I'm off my meds atm
1167Well I'm on my meds
1168But they're wearing off.
1169 
1170Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1171I was just trying to be conciliatory more than anything else
1172 
1173Morriña06/29/2019
1174yeah you're a cool dude ackbar
1175your loc for Jaabn was
1176top tier
1177 
1178Pacifica06/29/2019
1179I'm worried that people will try to report us for planning sedition or some shit
1180You're a good person
1181I'm not afraid of you
1182I'm just tired and paranoid.
1183 
1184Morriña06/29/2019
1185yeah we're all a bit on edge
1186 
1187Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1188Don't worry about it
1189 
1190mango06/29/2019
1191bruh i just wanna do italy and now we in cult buisness
1192 
1193Pacifica06/29/2019
1194@GreatSalmon Where's my fucking pin powers
1195 
1196Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1197So anyway, what are our major demands?
1198 
1199Pacifica06/29/2019
1200I think we had some
1201 
1202Morriña06/29/2019
1203I just want teams ot be more organized
1204 
1205Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1206I've figured something regarding recruitment/vouches, purges, and something to do with the culture
1207 
1208Pacifica06/29/2019
1209And then we talked about leadership for half an hour
1210And it got buried
1211 
1212Morriña06/29/2019
1213Looking at reports for one could help
1214talking about it isn't helpful but compiling it for data is absolutely helpful
1215 
1216Pacifica06/29/2019
1217https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B9xMODNzqOev5CCtWlcE0FXtH6m-l0PZXvBdpKG1eV8/edit
1218Google Docs
1219Proposal For Administration
1220Comprehensive Administrative Reform Proposal Or - ‘How Pacifica lost the Developer role’ Section I - Statement of Intent And Purpose The intent of this document is to propose a series of comprehensive and effective reforms in order to accomplish the following tasks, and...
1221
1222This is my 'moderate' proposal.
1223It's the least that could be done.
1224 
1225Morriña06/29/2019
1226I fucking hated crunch time
1227 
1228uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1229^
1230 
1231Morriña06/29/2019
1232and I wans't even on it
1233 
1234GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1235I’m on mobile rn sorry
1236 
1237Morriña06/29/2019
1238It is like
1239 
1240mango06/29/2019
1241how did you send it to panzer btw? did you just give it to him?
1242 
1243Morriña06/29/2019
1244Great War levels of tragic
1245 
1246Pacifica06/29/2019
1247I'd post Panzer's response to it but I don't want to leak dev council chats.
1248 
1249uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1250tfwno
1251 
1252Pacifica06/29/2019
1253I posted it publicly in dev council and dared him to fire me.
1254 
1255GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1256I’m out with my cousin rn so that’s why I’m in and out rn
1257 
1258mango06/29/2019
1259stack dev court
1260 
1261uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1262yes
1263GreatSalmon pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.06/29/2019
1264 
1265Pacifica06/29/2019
1266Thank christ
1267GreatSalmon pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.06/29/2019
1268 
1269Pacifica06/29/2019
1270TL;DR
1271Unfuck leadership
1272GreatSalmon pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.06/29/2019
1273 
1274Pacifica06/29/2019
1275Denounce it being 100% your mod
1276Stop caring about leaks
1277 
1278Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1279I was literally about to go on a sabbatical to focus on my finals when crunch time happened
1280 
1281Morriña06/29/2019
1282yeah exactly
1283I am to crunch time what the wehrmacht was to 1917 and 1918
1284 
1285uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1286crunch time is dumb even in actual video game dev let alone a free video game mod
1287 
1288Pacifica06/29/2019
1289@carvor @mupper @GreatSalmon @LeonG17 Is it justified to post dev council shit in here, do you think
1290 
1291Morriña06/29/2019
1292constantly haunted by it
1293 
1294mupper06/29/2019
1295uhhh idk
1296 
1297Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1298no clue
1299 
1300Pacifica06/29/2019
1301Right you're a dev too
1302 
1303Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1304Who here isn't on dev council?
1305 
1306Morriña06/29/2019
1307me
1308 
1309Pacifica06/29/2019
1310The TLs.
1311 
1312mango06/29/2019
1313me
1314 
1315mupper06/29/2019
1316morr, mango, uncountably
1317 
1318uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1319in my completely unbiased opinion post it
1320 
1321Pacifica06/29/2019
1322This is like, dev and TL only.
1323We need the rest of the TLs
1324 
1325mupper06/29/2019
1326valrins the only other one iirc
1327 
1328uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1329iim
1330 
1331Morriña06/29/2019
1332internet is mean
1333 
1334mupper06/29/2019
1335oh yeah
1336him
1337i forgot :oof:
1338 
1339GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1340Idk I don’t think we should post dev hole stuff directly here
1341 
1342uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1343also i think val would def oppose this
1344 
1345Morriña06/29/2019
1346yeah
1347val would be against the concept of this
1348 
1349GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1350Btw y’all have pin powers now
1351 
1352uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1353epic
1354 
1355Morriña06/29/2019
1356poop
1357Morriña pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.06/29/2019
1358 
1359Pacifica06/29/2019
1360I remember when we had unanimous support
1361 
1362uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1363also unpin powers :dab:
1364 
1365Pacifica06/29/2019
1366https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XUaTfqMvq9QrxGdRlgHDBI7jz1R1kXqUyadv-ichXL0/edit
1367Google Docs
1368Developer Council Note II
1369WIP letter
1370Pacifica pinned a message to this channel. See all the pins.06/29/2019
1371 
1372Pacifica06/29/2019
1373IMO Carvor is basically me but better as it comes to this sort of thing
1374I'm not always best.
1375 
1376Morriña06/29/2019
1377I am literally comfortable with anything so long as organization is mentioned somewhere
1378because it was organization that fucked us up the first time and it'll be organization that'll doom the well being of this team the next
1379 
1380Pacifica06/29/2019
1381It'll probably be another purge causing a mass exodus that dooms this team
1382 
1383Morriña06/29/2019
1384The demo's mess is ust gonna keep happening over and over again until we get some form of organization and are able to take data to the next derivative
1385 
1386uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1387slash crunch time
1388 
1389GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1390Imo we need something in there placing the mental and emotional well-being of our contribs high on the priority list
1391 
1392uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1393^
1394 
1395Pacifica06/29/2019
1396His response to that is "you get leave whenever you ask for it"
1397 
1398Morriña06/29/2019
1399yeah
1400"just take a break"
1401which uhhh
1402I remember profoundly that time panzer was like
1403"you can't leave"
1404when mupper wanted to go to bed
1405 
1406GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1407Something similar happened to Chai when she was on the team
1408 
1409Morriña06/29/2019
1410yeah
1411 
1412mango06/29/2019
1413i got something similar, its his common practice it seems
1414 
1415Pacifica06/29/2019
1416He denied that happens
1417I can't post the quote
1418As its in dev chat
1419 
1420Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1421I think the problem with this mod is that we're so desperate to actually get something out that we let ourselves get ordered around & work ourselves to the bone
1422 
1423mango06/29/2019
1424unless he deleted the DM, I still got it
1425 
1426Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1427Nobody wants to be the weak link that ends up delaying the mod
1428 
1429uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1430i still have a screenshot of when he said that to mupper
1431^ to ackbar
1432 
1433Pacifica06/29/2019
1434Post 'em here.
1435 
1436uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1437https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565705619701497867/572451258083049472/unknown.png
1438
1439 
1440Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1441Exhibit A of the danger of crunch time
1442 
1443Pacifica06/29/2019
1444He also denies saying it's just his mod
1445I have quotes of him saying that up there
1446Panzer #League Gang05/02/2019
1447oh my god dont be a cunt too
1448It's my fucking mod
1449I will decide what is God damn best for it
1450If you want to accuse me of shitting up my own work then you can leave.
1451
1452
1453Anyway, TNO is all of you, yes
1454YYou all own it just as much as I
1455However at the end of the day
1456I made the mod with a vision in mind
1457The team came after I did, we're working towards our own visions but ultimately, I'm working towards mine.
1458It's why I've been the one to approve all lore at the end of the day
1459I wish I could say it was each one of us contributing to a combined vision, but that's not really TNO. It's not like KR where we're all building up from our own.
1460All of this denial is in response to my proposal
1461And in dev hole
1462 
1463Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1464I mean, on one hand, I'm glad that there's someone who can put their foot down and say "this is my mod, I have ultimate veto power"
1465I was on another mod, Red Flood, that was wrecked by an absent admin and a crazy neo-fascist running around demanding others conform to his lore
1466But on the other, it does create a sort of sense of fear about the whole thing
1467 
1468Pacifica06/29/2019
14691. He has made it clear that we are all expendable, and he is willing to go back to one-man development.
14702. He has stated that TNO 'dying with dignity' is just fine. To translate - 'TNO dying is fine, so long as I'm in charge'.
14713. We cannot actually do anything to enforce this beyond leaving - which he is perfectly fine with, as it saves his ego.
14724. He owns the TNO copyright, we cannot split and continue development.
1473 
1474Morriña06/29/2019
1475the main benefit to it is that he's able to streamline decisions if things got to a deadlock
1476@Admiral Ackbar ah, skeletor
1477 
1478Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1479Yep
1480 
1481Morriña06/29/2019
1482what an individual
1483you know,
1484 
1485Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1486The red flood admins finally booted him yesterday
1487Thank fucking god
1488 
1489Morriña06/29/2019
1490he has said to us
1491that uh
1492 
1493mupper06/29/2019
1494>yesterday
1495w    e     w
1496 
1497Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1498It took him sending death threats
1499 
1500Morriña06/29/2019
1501hitler's goals included the abolition of the aristocracy
1502>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1503 
1504Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1505The problem was that he had recruited some like-minded people to the dev team, so he always had people backing him up
1506Also the death threat was to me
1507 
1508Pacifica06/29/2019
1509Panzer also told me to stop being so nihilistic about the mod
1510 
1511Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1512He said something like "If Ackbar was still here I'd stab him with a broken vodka bottle"
1513 
1514Pacifica06/29/2019
1515And complained about how I made every little thing seem like the nd of the world
1516 
1517Morriña06/29/2019
1518@Pacifica w e w
1519 
1520uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1521https://github.com/Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter also i'll post this here, i've exported every relevant chat i have access to but i obv can't export dev hole
1522GitHub
1523Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter
1524Exports Discord chat logs to a file. Contribute to Tyrrrz/DiscordChatExporter development by creating an account on GitHub.
1525
1526 
1527Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1528I think part of that might've been the desire to convince other (and himself) that everything was fine
1529 
1530Morriña06/29/2019
1531yeah
1532the roundtable today was
1533wow
1534 
1535Pacifica06/29/2019
1536I wish I had been there
1537But, you know
1538I was working
1539 
1540Morriña06/29/2019
1541he refused to recognize morale was an issue
1542 
1543uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1544i've given up on roundtables tbh
1545 
1546mango06/29/2019
1547he told people to quit if they were on edge about TNO
1548which of course, no one did because fuck that
1549 
1550Pacifica06/29/2019
1551I'll be back in a min
1552And yes I've given up on roundtables
1553How is anyone supposed to reason with someone who is perfectly willing to purge the entire team and go back to single-person development, just to make sure that his ego and vision are perfectly satiated?
1554Part of the morale problem very well could be the nature of the ‘it’s Panzer’s mod’ argument.
1555The fact that the people who do the supermajority of the work are completely subject to his whims in every field, and he’s perfectly willing to purge or coerce out people who disagree, is just wrong in my eyes.
1556That being said, I believe that, yes, more oversight is needed, by the developers in the relevant fields, to make sure all the TLs know what’s going on. He was probably right on the matter of Montenegro, the Gulf States, etc.
1557There's no point in holding roundtables with someone like that
1558 
1559Morriña06/29/2019
1560he's just
1561really unwilling to compromise tbh
1562 
1563Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1564I think his biggest fear is losing total control of TNO
1565I mean, the thing is his baby
1566I think it's less of an ego thing and more of a sunk cost thing
1567He doesn't want all the effort he's put in get thrown away by others
1568Which is ironically the reason Hadaril quit
1569And I mentioned this the day after Hadaril quit- I think a lot of people are settling into their roles (which is good) to the point of becoming possessive (which is bad)
1570 
1571mango06/29/2019
1572but its the response to the possession thats bad, theres no compromise on something that had clear effort put into it. its just a demand
1573 
1574Morriña06/29/2019
1575A lot of kings saw their kingdoms as their "baby"
1576doesn't mean they didn't do shitty things to the people who had to be citizens of it, I suppose
1577 
1578Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1579I'm not saying that I'm 100% behind everything he's doing, but I totally get why he's doing it
1580 
1581Morriña06/29/2019
1582Yaeh
1583 
1584Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1585In the hadaril thing, I think the problem is on both ends
1586 
1587Morriña06/29/2019
1588the hadaril thing was just
1589 
1590Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1591On one hand, if someone quits after a single disagreement, they were probably gonna leave soon anyway
1592 
1593Morriña06/29/2019
1594panzer overreacted and hadaril was on his last straw
1595that's how I see it
1596 
1597Pacifica06/29/2019
1598That wasn’t really ‘a single disagreement’
1599 
1600Morriña06/29/2019
1601yeah Hadaril was like
1602 
1603Pacifica06/29/2019
1604That was the result of a long chain of events
1605 
1606Morriña06/29/2019
1607constantly getting shafted by Panzer
1608 
1609Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1610On the other hand, the the fact that we had gotten to that point in the first place was the problem
1611 
1612Morriña06/29/2019
1613See: The CRT incident
1614 
1615Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1616I mean, I don't know much about other teams' drama, so maybe I was missing something
1617 
1618Morriña06/29/2019
1619where Panzer wanted to make allthe tech icons have the CRT blur
1620Hadarilsaid it'd take them twice as much time to do so on each of the made icons
1621 
1622Pacifica06/29/2019
1623And Panzer botted the poll.
1624 
1625Morriña06/29/2019
1626and it still got More yes than no
1627 
1628Pacifica06/29/2019
1629Don’t forget that
1630 
1631Morriña06/29/2019
1632and then he said "I'm doing it anyway"
1633 
1634uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1635was it panzer?
1636 
1637Pacifica06/29/2019
1638Who else
1639 
1640mango06/29/2019
1641didnt he title the options
1642"the wrong choice" and "the right choice"?
1643 
1644uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1645yes
1646 
1647Pacifica06/29/2019
1648I think so
1649
1650Morriña06/29/2019
1651there were still more yes than no
1652 
1653Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1654Or something like that, like "no crt (which is dumb)" and "crt (which is cool)"
1655 
1656Morriña06/29/2019
1657also panzer really shoe horned in the complete/unavailable thing
1658I forgot to mention this
1659it's a scripted gui
1660so
1661you know the uh
1662america gui
1663and the germany gui
1664and the japan gui
1665 
1666mango06/29/2019
1667italy
1668 
1669Morriña06/29/2019
1670and the italy gui
1671sorry texting someone
1672 
1673mango06/29/2019
1674:thumbsup:
1675 
1676uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1677i checked
1678 
1679Morriña06/29/2019
1680it's supposed to apply that onto tech
1681 
1682Pacifica06/29/2019
1683Jaabn war crim
1684 
1685uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1686
1687 
1688Morriña06/29/2019
1689It doesnt even look that good
1690It covers up like
1691Most tech work
1692 
1693Pacifica06/29/2019
1694It’s disgusting.
1695Hadaril’s is better.
1696 
1697Morriña06/29/2019
1698And it’s literally reworking something vanilla already gave you
1699from the ground up
1700 
1701Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1702I honestly agree with that
1703 
1704Morriña06/29/2019
1705This will always be better tbh
1706
1707 
1708mupper06/29/2019
1709yeah
1710 
1711uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1712here's the "wrong option" thing
1713
1714yeah agreed
1715 
1716Pacifica06/29/2019
1717He attempted to emotionally manipulate me on the Moskowien thing
1718 
1719mango06/29/2019
1720jfc
1721 
1722Pacifica06/29/2019
1723I told him I support him on most decisions but the Moskowien thing
1724He acted like I was calling him a monster
1725 
1726Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1727What was the Moskowien thing?
1728 
1729mupper06/29/2019
1730the very yikes mechanic
1731 
1732mango06/29/2019
1733population moving
1734but it gives you the good result
1735 
1736Morriña06/29/2019
1737Yes!!!
1738Like greece and turkey
1739 
1740Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1741Ah
1742 
1743Morriña06/29/2019
1744Which ended
1745 
1746Pacifica06/29/2019
1747
1748 
1749Morriña06/29/2019
1750Really badly
1751 
1752mupper06/29/2019
1753yikes!
1754 
1755uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1756:grimacing:
1757 
1758Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1759I don't think Panzer necessarily intended offense, I think he just has a really sardonic kind of personality where he's not aware that it comes off as offensive to others
1760 
1761Morriña06/29/2019
1762I'm going to bed
1763gn
1764 
1765mupper06/29/2019
1766gn morr
1767 
1768uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1769night morrina
1770 
1771Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1772Night
1773 
1774Pacifica06/29/2019
1775He also has offered some really nice emotional support to me in the past
1776 
1777Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1778Abrasive, that was the word I was looking for to describe Panzer's personality
1779 
1780Pacifica06/29/2019
1781I don’t want this to be a lynch mob, I don’t want to hurt him
1782But god, TNO needs help
1783 
1784Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1785So for matters not stemming from Panzer's attitude & personality
1786 
1787mango06/29/2019
1788yea i dont despise panzer, outside of TNO imo hes not a bad dude
1789 
1790Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1791There's definitely a culture that's not unlike a japanese corporation
1792Where there's a mix of pressure from above and pressure on oneself
1793 
1794mupper06/29/2019
1795yeah i agree with mango
1796 
1797Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1798Fear of failure & being the 'weak link' that delays TNO and makes things harder for others
1799 
1800uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1801agreed with both mango and ackbar
1802 
1803mupper06/29/2019
1804yeah
1805 
1806mango06/29/2019
1807alr im out
1808 
1809Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1810Recruitment issues are due to a sense of separation between the plebs & devs
1811 
1812mango06/29/2019
1813cya gabers
1814 
1815Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1816night mango
1817 
1818mupper06/29/2019
1819bye mango
1820er
1821 
1822uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1823bye mango
1824 
1825mupper06/29/2019
1826gn
1827 
1828uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1829or night
1830 
1831Pacifica06/29/2019
1832If Panzer surrendered absolute power, fixed recruitment, declared no more purges/crunch, and stopped caring about leaks
1833I’d be fine with him as LD
1834 
1835uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1836and if he kept to those
1837 
1838Pacifica06/29/2019
1839^
1840 
1841Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1842The problem is what do we do to replace 'absolute power'
1843 
1844GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1845Yeah I actually personally really like panzer
1846That’s why this ordeal is so disappointing
1847 
1848Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1849Do we just create a rough 'constitution' of sorts & decide which powers lie with panzer vs. the dev council?
1850 
1851Pacifica06/29/2019
1852Give him the veto, and the devs the ability to override veto by majority
1853Or the devs the ability to override his decisions by majority
1854 
1855Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1856What level of majority, simple, 2/3, or other?
1857 
1858GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1859Panzer would never accept that
1860 
1861mupper06/29/2019
1862yeah :/
1863 
1864Pacifica06/29/2019
1865Probably a large majority
1866The devs are more or less a united front
18672/3?
1868 
1869Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1870I was thinking either 2/3 or 3/4
1871 
1872GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1873Wait why am I head of this server lmao
1874 
1875mupper06/29/2019
1876bread gave it to you
1877 
1878uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1879bread gave it to you ig
1880 
1881GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1882I just noticed
1883 
1884Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1885It's a mystery for the ages
1886 
1887GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1888Oh thanks bread
1889 
1890Pacifica06/29/2019
1891Because who else would be leader
1892 
1893GreatSalmon06/29/2019
1894clearly I am his designated successor
1895Mango if Ackbar stabs me you get my stuff
1896 
1897mango06/29/2019
1898pitching in to say, get panzer legit banned from discord and i get the server
1899im previous owner
1900 
1901uncountablyInfinite06/29/2019
1902:chairmango:
1903 
1904Pacifica06/29/2019
1905- TLs/devs submit proposed lore/lore changes to a dev
1906- Panzer may veto
1907- Devs may override the veto
1908 
1909Admiral Ackbar06/29/2019
1910Maybe also major mechanics changes
1911E.g., the scripted gui for the techs
1912 
1913Pacifica06/29/2019
1914Well, all major lore/mechanics/administration changes
1915If it has serious impact on the mod as a whole
1916It goes through that process
1917 
1918GreatSalmon06/30/2019
1919>mechanics change
1920 
1921mupper06/30/2019
1922unfortunately, i dont think he'd accept that
1923 
1924GreatSalmon06/30/2019
1925I think we all know what’s coming
1926 
1927Pacifica06/30/2019
1928I propose we make Snoek lead dev
1929 
1930GreatSalmon06/30/2019
1931Ending slides
1932Ending slides
1933Ending slides
1934 
1935Pacifica06/30/2019
1936A unilateral removal of ending slides and a ban on mentioning them ever again.
1937We have events.
1938 
1939uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
1940:fascisttears:
1941 
1942Pacifica06/30/2019
1943Use them.
1944Literally nobody but Panzer supports ending slides
1945 
1946Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
1947I'm with you on that
1948 
1949mupper06/30/2019
1950yeah
1951 
1952Pacifica06/30/2019
1953I count Debbel as a fleshy protrusion off of Panzer and not an individual person.
1954 
1955uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
1956mfw demo endslides alone were 1 gb :moyai:
1957 
1958GreatSalmon06/30/2019
1959If he wants them so bad he can work on them himself
1960 
1961Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
1962I'm thinking we need a page addressing lessons that we should take from the demo
1963 
1964Pacifica06/30/2019
1965Yes.
1966I believe the demo was a force for good in the end
1967As it was evidently clear we could write good code/do good art
1968 
1969Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
1970At the very least, it was a learning experience
1971 
1972mupper06/30/2019
1973yeah
1974 
1975Pacifica06/30/2019
1976But we had no idea what made things fun or good
1977From 2 years of no product
1978 
1979mupper06/30/2019
1980i thought china was pretty good even before the demo
1981 
1982Pacifica06/30/2019
1983How does the Reunification tree work nowadays
1984 
1985mupper06/30/2019
1986idk
1987iirc it got cut for release
1988 
1989Pacifica06/30/2019
1990I want to be able to unite China
1991Not play a shitty balked China
1992 
1993uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
1994just use USA.1776
1995 
1996Pacifica06/30/2019
1997Komi is my proudest creation
1998 
1999GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2000Komi is Pacifica’s beautiful Frankenstein’s monster
2001 
2002Pacifica06/30/2019
2003If I die, make sure it’s put in the hands of someone reliable and competent
2004Who won’t remove the BurgSys path
2005Oh
2006Worst comes to worst
2007Who are some competent contribs Panzer would replace us with
2008 
2009GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2010Um
2011All my contribs are reasonable at coding but I doubt that they’d be amazing leaders imo
2012 
2013carvor06/30/2019
2014Inb4 pacifica pulls off her mask to reveal she was Aryan blood all along
2015 
2016uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2017the longest con
2018 
2019Pacifica06/30/2019
2020Don’t even joke about that
2021 
2022carvor06/30/2019
2023Sorry
2024 
2025uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2026sorry
2027 
2028Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2029Who are some notable people who left the mod in recent months?
2030There was Todd and bread
2031 
2032mupper06/30/2019
2033lazer
2034 
2035Pacifica06/30/2019
2036Tiberium.
2037Nuclear.
2038Chai.
2039 
2040uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2041is ghesor recent enough
2042 
2043Pacifica06/30/2019
2044Yes.
2045 
2046mupper06/30/2019
2047ghesor was 3 months ago
2048iirc
2049 
2050Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2051I think we should have this as an example of something that's self perpetuating
2052 
2053Pacifica06/30/2019
2054Aryan Blood got in an argument with me once.
2055 
2056Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2057These people leaving lowers morale, which causes more friction in the community, which drives people to leave, which lowers morale...
2058 
2059mupper06/30/2019
2060hes still alive?
2061 
2062Pacifica06/30/2019
2063He said I was morally equivalent to a mass murderer.
2064 
2065uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2066:grimacing:
2067 
2068Pacifica06/30/2019
2069This was a few months ago.
2070 
2071mupper06/30/2019
2072oh
2073 
2074carvor06/30/2019
2075Whoops
2076 
2077Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2078I'd question his logic, but that would imply he had one
2079 
2080mupper06/30/2019
2081aryan blood was the second person i met on tno
2082 
2083carvor06/30/2019
2084Wrong emoji right there
2085 
2086Pacifica06/30/2019
2087I sort of want to infiltrate TNO on an alt just to prove a point.
2088 
2089carvor06/30/2019
2090Anyway sleep time I have work tomorrow
2091 
2092Pacifica06/30/2019
2093That vouches don’t work.
2094 
2095uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2096night carv
2097 
2098mupper06/30/2019
2099gn carv
2100 
2101Pacifica06/30/2019
2102Goodnight.
2103 
2104Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2105night
2106I'm gonna start writing some stuff concerning the demo on the doc
2107 
2108Pacifica06/30/2019
2109Got it
2110I’ll also take a crack at it
2111 
2112Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2113I gotta go for a bit, but I can come back and work on it later tonight
2114 
2115uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2116bye for now ackbar
2117 
2118mupper06/30/2019
2119bye ackbar
2120 
2121GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2122Cya ack
2123 
2124mupper06/30/2019
2125i should probably get something to eat
2126 
2127GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2128So is there anything we should actively be doing with our contribs in preparation for this?
2129 
2130Pacifica06/30/2019
2131Hm.
2132If they're reliable enough to be sure they're not going to warn Panzer
2133Let them know we're going to submit a doc
2134 
2135GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2136I really love my contribs but I’m not sure how it will go down
2137I don’t know them too well personally
2138 
2139uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2140i'm not sure who on na team i'd consider safe
2141 
2142mupper06/30/2019
2143i honestly dk who panzer would make tl if i left
2144idk how bad his blood is with mop these days
2145and pmt's on the verge of death
2146 
2147uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2148for na the most likely is probably paduuva
2149 
2150GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2151India team might be DOA if he kicked you
2152 
2153uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2154but he hasn't been active for a while
2155 
2156mupper06/30/2019
2157too bad indias already done except for 3 trees lol :)
2158both of them too
2159 
2160Pacifica06/30/2019
2161Scrape together as many competent people as you can
2162I suppose
2163 
2164uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2165i'll probably use dms rather than my server for security reasons
2166 
2167Pacifica06/30/2019
2168Yea
2169Iberia team is mine
2170 
2171uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2172thoughts on who here to tell/not tell?
2173
2174 
2175GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2176Is Tax active anymore
2177 
2178uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2179no
2180 
2181GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2182F
2183 
2184uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2185F
2186 
2187mupper06/30/2019
2188their last post was on the 8th
2189f
2190 
2191mango06/30/2019
2192F
2193 
2194GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2195I think karby and pad seem reliable
2196 
2197mango06/30/2019
2198I’d probably tell Anarch and that’s it
2199 
2200mupper06/30/2019
2201dr maybe? he'd probably just go "lol ok"
2202 
2203mango06/30/2019
2204What would be dropped in the alert?
2205 
2206Pacifica06/30/2019
2207The element of overwhelming force
2208 
2209GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2210What do you guys think
2211Bismarck is in bc he’s my oldest and most reliable contrib
2212GC too
2213
2214 
2215Pacifica06/30/2019
2216And the opportunity to build a solid base
2217 
2218mango06/30/2019
2219Italy’s “competent” contribs are too new or missing in action
2220Send help
2221 
2222uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2223F
2224 
2225Pacifica06/30/2019
2226F
2227 
2228mupper06/30/2019
2229f
2230 
2231Pacifica06/30/2019
2232See
2233I’m sure we more or less have majoritarian support
2234But I’m not sure who to trust
2235 
2236GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2237Thunder would enthusiastically support us imo
2238 
2239mango06/30/2019
2240Who all spammed the bread emoji when Panzer came back?
2241 
2242uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2243definitely
2244 
2245Pacifica06/30/2019
2246I already came for him
2247@mango They’re memers
2248 
2249mango06/30/2019
2250Gotcha
2251 
2252GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2253And you should include Internet bc he’s team lead ofc
2254 
2255uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2256what'd you say exactly i'm not sure what to say in mine
2257 
2258GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2259And uhhh
2260 
2261Pacifica06/30/2019
2262Thunder is like, the apex of reliability
2263I messaged Internet
2264 
2265uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2266^
2267 
2268Pacifica06/30/2019
2269If something disastrous happens, and Panzer purges the ‘reform faction’
2270Would you leave
2271 
2272GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2273I think we’re all in this together
2274Or at least we should be
2275Imo
2276 
2277mupper06/30/2019
2278i know for sure my contribs and timb would support me and the only other two are average greytides
2279 
2280GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2281Yeah I really don’t know what to say to my contribs especially because I don’t know them well personally
2282I’ll make a draft later and ask for feedback from you guys prob
2283 
2284uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2285gonna shower bye for a bit
2286 
2287Pacifica06/30/2019
2288Bye
2289Kk
2290 
2291Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2292Bye
2293 
2294mupper06/30/2019
2295bye uncountably
2296 
2297mango06/30/2019
2298What would Panzer say to the community if a majority of the team disappeared?
2299 
2300Pacifica06/30/2019
2301We’re conspiring to ruin the mod
2302 
2303mango06/30/2019
2304Gotcha
2305 
2306GreatSalmon06/30/2019
2307Idk it’s really up in the air rn
2308 
2309mango06/30/2019
2310Scenario: TNO is shot dead in Miami, what’s y’alls policy on talking about what happened?
2311 
2312Pacifica06/30/2019
2313Leakers did it
2314 
2315Pacifica06/30/2019
2316I feel like any sort of demand for Panzer to no longer have absolute power will be responded to with a ‘no’
2317 
2318mupper06/30/2019
2319yeah
2320 
2321Pacifica06/30/2019
2322How will we respond to that ‘no’
2323 
2324mupper06/30/2019
2325hm
2326@GreatSalmon @Admiral Ackbar what do you think?
2327
2328It's a bird! It's a plane! Nevermind, it's just S.P.Q.R.06/30/2019
2329 
2330Pacifica06/30/2019
2331Hello
2332 
2333mango06/30/2019
2334Welcome
2335 
2336Morriña06/30/2019
2337Hiya espy
2338 
2339S.P.Q.R06/30/2019
2340Salve. Was catching up on history, though I wouldn't mind a filing-in.
2341
2342Basically this is the complain-about-how-Panzer-runs-shit channel? Hoo boy we are not alone.
2343 
2344Pacifica06/30/2019
2345Yeah
2346As well as the channel for letter idea
2347 
2348Morriña06/30/2019
2349Yeah
2350 
2351S.P.Q.R06/30/2019
2352So the plan is just for a letter? Seems a bit... eh. We may need more than just that. We need a backup.
2353My mock-GS may seem a bit weird but in context it does make some sense.
2354 
2355uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2356hi espy
2357 
2358S.P.Q.R06/30/2019
2359Salve.
2360 
2361carvor06/30/2019
2362It's a letter and the threat that we will leave if our concerns aren't addressed
2363 
2364S.P.Q.R06/30/2019
2365Aha.
2366 
2367S.P.Q.R06/30/2019
2368Left a small suggestion on that proposal (separate from Ackbar's). Now... hmm
2369 
2370Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2371I think the thing about Panzer is that all of us, him included, are a little burnt out, especially after the demo
2372Like I don't think he's a bad person, it's just that he has an abrasive personality and is the kind of guy who doubles down when he thinks he's doing the right thing
2373 
2374Morriña06/30/2019
2375Yeah
2376 
2377Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2378Like I think we can all agree that from a theoretical standpoint, "assholes who try to hold the mod hostage or threaten to leave unless their demands are met" is a good stance to have
2379But Hadaril wasn't really being an asshole
2380 
2381Morriña06/30/2019
2382You think Burgundy’s coming out by august ?
2383Or is t gonna be post release ?
2384 
2385Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2386Ultimately, it depends
2387 
2388Morriña06/30/2019
2389Ig
2390 
2391Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2392The thing about Burgundy is that it depends so much on other nations' development, since it has to influence those other nations
2393 
2394Morriña06/30/2019
2395yeah
2396 
2397carvor06/30/2019
2398Debbel denies that there even is a morale problem
2399 
2400Morriña06/30/2019
2401>>>>>>>>>>>
2402 
2403uncountablyInfinite06/30/2019
2404>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2405 
2406Pacifica06/30/2019
2407Debbel
2408 
2409carvor06/30/2019
2410I tried to talk to him about how the team was low on morale and how I though some changes had to be made
2411And he just said that if people don't like it they can just leave
2412 
2413Morriña06/30/2019
2414mfw
2415The way management is done si just
2416poor
2417 
2418Admiral Ackbar06/30/2019
2419The biggest thing we need to get across is that what's going on is unhealthy for all of us
2420
2421GreatSalmon07/06/2019
2422looks really well thought out and diplomatic, I like it
2423thanks for putting this together, ackbar
2424however I'm worried what debbel's response will be when it comes to us leaving him out of this
2425 
2426Pacifica07/06/2019
2427He willfully stated that he didn’t want to be a part of the union
2428 
2429GreatSalmon07/06/2019
2430oh got it
2431 
2432Pacifica07/06/2019
2433When he was invited upon ascension to dev
2434 
2435GreatSalmon07/06/2019
2436that's ...concerning
2437 
2438Pacifica07/06/2019
2439Debbel is our friend too.
2440Even if he’s really, really close to Panzer.
2441 
2442GreatSalmon07/06/2019
2443yeah ik, I personally really like debbel
2444it's just a little strange that he outright refused to join
2445 
2446Admiral Ackbar07/06/2019
2447Fleshy protrusion of Panzer or just wanting to minimize involvment in drama? Vote now on your phones!
2448 
2449uncountablyInfinite07/06/2019
2450i vote both so i'm guaranteed to be on the winning side
2451 
2452carvor07/06/2019
2453It seems ready to me
2454 
2455Pacifica07/06/2019
2456Are we missing any signatures on this?
2457Doesn't seem we are.
2458 
2459S.P.Q.R07/06/2019
2460Just when I may be about to go out to find something to eat, this happens
2461 
2462carvor07/06/2019
2463Who's going to be posting it?
2464 
2465AtomicSoviet07/06/2019
2466Personally, I still think we should contact Debbel
2467I don't like that we put one dev aside
2468 
2469Pacifica07/06/2019
2470We should probably at least try, yeah.
2471 
2472AtomicSoviet07/06/2019
2473Even if he disagrees, I want him to know that it exists
2474 
2475Pacifica07/06/2019
2476I will say, though, that he willingly excluded himself from organizing things like this.
2477
2478Debbel02/15/2019
2479Whilst I understand what you're going for here, i'm afraid it just doesn't sit right with me, and I can't be a part of it. I apologise.
2480bread02/15/2019
2481I understand that.
2482Kracc02/15/2019
2483participation is voluntary
2484ZeroScale02/15/2019
2485Im surprised to see this many here honestly
2486Debbel02/15/2019
2487I won't spill the beans, and I thank you for thinking of me, but i'll be ducking back out.
2488
2489But we should let him know.
2490This is from the OG cabal
2491 
2492AtomicSoviet07/06/2019
2493Yeah but he deserve to still have an opinion
2494After all, that was a different context
2495 
2496Pacifica07/06/2019
2497Yeah, go ahead and show him.
2498@carvor I think you have seniority here.
2499Want to?
2500 
2501carvor07/06/2019
2502Pm him the doc?
2503Sure
2504Should I do it rn?
2505 
2506Pacifica07/06/2019
2507Post it in dev hole I think
2508Because this is collective bargaining
2509And we should show Debbel first imo
2510 
2511carvor07/06/2019
2512Yeah I was talking about pming debbel the doc
2513 
2514Pacifica07/06/2019
2515Go ahead
2516 
2517S.P.Q.R07/06/2019
2518Not sure if he's on
2519 
2520Pacifica07/06/2019
2521Let's see the response
2522 
2523S.P.Q.R07/06/2019
2524-also, I may not be that present right now-
2525 
2526AtomicSoviet07/06/2019
2527I've done it already
2528 
2529Pacifica07/06/2019
2530Ah, thanks.
2531 
2532AtomicSoviet07/06/2019
2533
2534 
2535Admiral Ackbar07/06/2019
2536TL;DR he's staying out of it
2537 
2538AtomicSoviet07/06/2019
2539Yeah, he agrees on some stuff but don't want to get too involved
2540 
2541carvor07/06/2019
2542Time to post it then?
2543 
2544Admiral Ackbar07/06/2019
2545I'm ready whenever
2546 
2547Pacifica07/06/2019
2548On station.
2549Ping everyone when ready.
2550Say... a minute beforehand.
2551Oh.
2552
2553mupper has joined the server! It's super effective!07/18/2019
2554 
2555uncountablyInfinite07/18/2019
2556hi
2557 
2558Pacifica07/18/2019
2559Welcome back
2560 
2561mupper07/18/2019
2562hi
2563 
2564Admiral Ackbar07/18/2019
2565Hi diddly ho Mupperino
2566 
2567mupper07/18/2019
2568hey
2569 
2570Pacifica07/19/2019
2571This was not a random useless member, they were a highly respected and useful member
2572Ohhhhh boy
2573Implying there are 'random useless members' on the team
2574 
2575uncountablyInfinite07/19/2019
2576:grimacing:
2577 
2578mupper07/19/2019
2579im going to be honest
2580i have never been more angry at an india contrib than now
2581no
2582i have never been more angry at any member of india team
2583 
2584carvor07/19/2019
2585oof
2586 
2587Pacifica07/19/2019
2588Fucking Toad
2589I’m sorry for your loss Mupper
2590 
2591mupper07/19/2019
2592its fine
2593ill just do the tree myself
2594like everything on india
2595 
2596Pacifica07/19/2019
2597If you need my help just ask
2598I’d be glad to aid you
2599 
2600mupper07/19/2019
2601its fine
2602im just very pissed off rn
2603 
2604GreatSalmon07/19/2019
2605Ngl I’d be just as angry if I were in your position rn
2606 
2607Pacifica07/19/2019
2608Same
2609 
2610Pacifica07/21/2019
2611Oh whats this, Panzer shut down something that was fully planned out, with art assets, and a code base, on a whim. In other news, sky is blue.
2612 
2613uncountablyInfinite07/21/2019
2614wow epic
2615 
2616mupper07/21/2019
2617:frowning: im sorry pacifica
2618 
2619uncountablyInfinite07/21/2019
2620as am i
2621 
2622Admiral Ackbar07/21/2019
2623I don't know whether I'm reading him right, but it seems he's vetoing only your choice of leader than anything else
2624Or are we talking about something other than the CIA Gibraltar coup?
2625I feel there has to be a better option than some random spy
2626Why not find some Spanish shipping company and grab their CEO
2627Finding some rich US friendly shipping magnate with business interests overseas and trusting them to keep American ships moving through the dam sounds more fitting
2628 
2629Pacifica07/21/2019
2630Yes but that’s boring
2631 
2632Admiral Ackbar07/21/2019
2633Maybe have his ministers all be CIA spies?
2634Spanish spy lady can be his HoG
2635 
2636mango07/23/2019
2637is braqish gonna get an invite? cause apparently hes a dev now
2638 
2639GreatSalmon07/23/2019
2640Yeah lemme invite him rn
2641Ready player Braqish07/23/2019
2642 
2643GreatSalmon07/23/2019
2644Hello Braq
2645This is where we vent and organize
2646 
2647mupper07/23/2019
2648never speak of this
2649ever.
2650 
2651Braqish07/23/2019
2652Loud and clear
2653 
2654Pacifica07/23/2019
2655Welcome to the Union
2656 
2657Braqish07/23/2019
2658So uh
2659Is this like a top-secret snowflakes anonymous deal?
2660 
2661GreatSalmon07/23/2019
2662Kind of not really
2663We vent about TNO-related stuff
2664And discuss how to deal with things we don’t agree with
2665
2666 
2667Pacifica07/29/2019
2668@everyone I sincerely hope there will be no purge.
2669 
2670GreatSalmon07/29/2019
2671yep
2672what are the odds that panzer will leave again
2673 
2674Pacifica07/29/2019
2675Dunno
2676 
2677GreatSalmon07/29/2019
2678but yeah a purge is unacceptable in this situation imo
2679 
2680S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2681Not this fucking shit again
2682This time let's not make public announcements and purges and such. We're just giving them attention.
2683Instead let's track down whoever did it and deal with this mess silently.
2684I may have a suspicion, though I am not sure. Either way.
2685 
2686Pacifica07/29/2019
2687The true Chad move is announcing that there will be no purge
2688 
2689S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2690What a way to start my day
2691 
2692Pacifica07/29/2019
2693Before Panzer comes online
2694 
2695S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2696a bit late but whatever
2697 
2698S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2699Flizzy apparently got vouched for by Morr and Carmain, if the welcome message is a good indicator or so.
2700 
2701GreatSalmon07/29/2019
2702ok crisis averted
2703bless
2704 
2705S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2706Another row of venting: bloody hate the All Russian Congress idea tbh
2707Feels forced, doesn't account for the inter-warlord relationships, will dissolve into internal infighting ASAP, there's also the logistical difficulty of actually gathering all the warlords due to decayed infra and such...
2708It's rare, yeah, though it just feels like a hangnail
2709 
2710carvor07/29/2019
2711It's been lore for ages, you should have brought it up sooner
2712 
2713S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2714Tsk, in hindsight yeah. Though truth be told I kinda forgot about it.
2715 
2716Pacifica07/29/2019
2717Well, the mod leaked and people are going to play it anyway
2718May as well humor the drama server and ask for bug reports
2719 
2720LeonG1707/29/2019
2721Oh goddamnit, I leave for near a week due to my local area internet crashing from a thunderstorm and taking this long to find some suitable temporary internet access, and there's more chaos. Sounds like it's blown over at least
2722 
2723carvor07/29/2019
2724tfw England team starts talking about video diaries
2725 
2726mupper07/29/2019
2727what the fuck just happened
2728i wake up to 12 pings
2729oh
2730 
2731LeonG1707/29/2019
2732idk, I've missed like 30 odd pings since tuesday and I'm still piecing together what I missed
2733 
2734S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2735Week old build got leaked, no purge or anything, got dealt with quietly, Italy diary dropped @mupper
2736 
2737mupper07/29/2019
2738oh ok
2739 
2740LeonG1707/29/2019
2741Isn't this the 2nd time the italy diary has been dropped?
2742 
2743mupper07/29/2019
2744no
2745as in
2746released
2747 
2748LeonG1707/29/2019
2749Oh, oh nice
2750 
2751Braqish07/29/2019
2752>10 pings
2753Fuck me what'd I miss
2754 
2755AtomicSoviet07/29/2019
2756"Week old build got leaked, no purge or anything, got dealt with quietly, Italy diary dropped"
2757 
2758Braqish07/29/2019
2759Alright
2760 
2761mango07/29/2019
2762italylylyl :flag_it:
2763 
2764Braqish07/29/2019
2765:disappointed:
2766God I'm sick of this shit
2767 
2768AtomicSoviet07/29/2019
2769Honestly the leak went pretty smoothly
2770The pleb aren't aware of it and the leakers got bored because nothing happend
2771 
2772Braqish07/29/2019
2773Yeah there's no denying it could've been worse, nice handling of it
2774Hopefully future leaks go this well
2775I'd say hopefully there won't be any more but lmao we all know they'll keep happening
2776 
2777carvor07/29/2019
2778@S.P.Q.R Do you have any ideas that you like more to resolve a Goering invasion than the congress?
2779 
2780S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2781Probably a faction may work better to show how loose the thing would be; it would grow more gradually as news spread, is more forgiving in case opt outs happen (likely considering some warlords hate each other's guts) and would auto-dissolve once the shenanigans are over.
2782
2783Or.... truth be told not sure. If the old plans were for this, then consider me a dunce. If it was for a tag, big problem. At the moment ain't got a better idea unfortunately, got something more pressing to take care of.
2784 
2785carvor07/29/2019
2786I feel like maybe some of the ideologically similar warlords might unite
2787 
2788Pacifica07/29/2019
2789I think by the time Goering gets to Russia, it'll be firmly in regional stage, right
2790 
2791carvor07/29/2019
2792They should be
2793An alliance between the regiouals would probably work
2794You saw in my screenshot that Vitaka had unified west russia
2795 
2796Pacifica07/29/2019
2797Goering invades BurgSys Komi
2798Every other warlord sends him a handwritten thank you
2799 
2800carvor07/29/2019
2801Though there are a few that stand out
2802like the Aryan brotherhood
2803 
2804S.P.Q.R07/29/2019
2805Ah yeah, if it's regionals it'd be more manageable
2806>be goering
2807>prepare to conquer the rest of russia
2808>get greeted by the Aryan Brotherhood
2809>thefuck.jpg
2810 
2811Braqish07/29/2019
2812:panzersbreakingpoint:
2813 
2814carvor08/01/2019
2815Looks like we get moscowein 2, slightly less ethnic cleansing edition
2816 
2817S.P.Q.R08/01/2019
2818Oh lord, what'd I miss
2819 
2820Pacifica08/01/2019
2821Let's ee
2822see
2823 
2824AtomicSoviet08/01/2019
2825From what I gathered Panzer wants to use his plans for Moscowien again
2826Just with the mechanics removed and replaced with fixed border for the two-state solution
2827Which is sad because @carvor I loved your suggestion
2828 
2829Pacifica08/01/2019
2830What was carvor's solution?
2831 
2832AtomicSoviet08/01/2019
2833That doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B-Q7PhPYz4GN1OZHLeaLiwbyBf0vFhXJLccFTQYAVrM/edit
2834Google Docs
2835Moskowien
2836Moskowien starts in a fairly decent position, however, it does have its problems, namely its porous border, the rising power of the Russians within its civilian governing council, and the fact that as unrest rises in Germany, unrest is also rising in Moskowien. It shall be h...
2837
2838 
2839carvor08/01/2019
2840Mostly your stuff
2841 
2842AtomicSoviet08/01/2019
2843Oh you both worked on it ?
2844Well then
2845Yeah I thought it was good as a replacement
2846 
2847Pacifica08/01/2019
2848Oh hey I remember writing most of that
2849Shame it won't get in
2850At least I stopped the ethnic cleansing.
2851 
2852mango08/01/2019
2853The two state solution idea is dumb right? That’s agreeable?
2854 
2855carvor08/01/2019
2856Yes
2857 
2858mango08/01/2019
2859Good, Ima try my best to not have that
2860 
2861carvor08/01/2019
2862I just wanna know what's the point of all those cores if you ain't gonna use em
2863 
2864AtomicSoviet08/01/2019
2865Is the two-state solution an auto-win or is there a chance of collapse ?
2866 
2867Pacifica08/01/2019
2868Can’t wait for the inevitable complaints when we design events/trees for dealing with German settlers in post-reunification Russia
2869 
2870AtomicSoviet08/01/2019
2871^
2872 
2873Pacifica08/01/2019
2874You thought the two state solution was bad...
2875 
2876mango08/01/2019
2877And we all can agree Kasche is a shithead too?
2878 
2879carvor08/01/2019
2880Nobody disputes that
2881But that doesn't mean that I want a cringey death event or something
2882 
2883mango08/01/2019
2884Is it a lost cause to try to make Kasche  not be the campaigning for the “good ending”
2885Cause that’s the point I’m at
2886 
2887carvor08/01/2019
2888Kasche wants to fuck off
2889 
2890mango08/01/2019
2891I know
2892 
2893carvor08/01/2019
2894He couldn't care less about the actual nation
2895 
2896mango08/01/2019
2897I didn’t directly say it like that but I’m just wanting Kasche not to be a reasonable, by Nazi terms, figure in “Nazism wont work in the east, Ima fuck off”
2898 
2899carvor08/01/2019
2900Make it clear that his neglect is hurting people
2901 
2902mango08/01/2019
2903Lemme get what I sent
2904 
2905carvor08/01/2019
2906Letting the army go around killing pretty much whoever they want with no real oversight
2907 
2908Admiral Ackbar08/01/2019
2909Have everything implode once he fucks off
2910But then have it be revealed that all those problems were things that he very well could've prevented if he had paid attention or actually tried
2911 
2912carvor08/01/2019
2913Panzer did a hard no on that
2914 
2915Admiral Ackbar08/01/2019
2916Why exactly?
2917 
2918carvor08/01/2019
2919:shrug:
2920 
2921Pacifica08/01/2019
2922Bruh
2923Where is this being discussed
2924 
2925mango08/01/2019
2926DMs
2927 
2928Pacifica08/01/2019
2929Whatever happened to “keep all TNO development on the server”
2930 
2931mango08/01/2019
2932Idk
2933But either Kasche was changed or an idea similar to Carvor’s idea was the plan from the start
2934Alt: Panzer bad at public explanations
2935 
2936Pacifica08/01/2019
2937Or he’s afraid of the backlash that’ll happen.
2938 
2939mango08/01/2019
2940Reasonable
2941 
2942S.P.Q.R08/02/2019
2943that damned button
2944I do not envy CPR at the moment
2945 
2946Pacifica08/02/2019
2947Oh god what happened
2948 
2949S.P.Q.R08/02/2019
2950You saw the leaps and bounds he's going through to fit both the names and that thing, right? @Pacifica
2951 
2952Pacifica08/02/2019
2953Just did
2954mupper just joined. Can I get a heal?08/02/2019
2955 
2956GreatSalmon08/02/2019
2957Hello there
2958 
2959Pacifica08/02/2019
2960Welcome back to our shadowy conspiracy
2961 
2962S.P.Q.R08/02/2019
2963Te salutamus, et erit consaluta per nostram conjuratione. Paenito por latinam meam fracta.
2964 
2965AtomicSoviet08/02/2019
2966Uhm
2967Cave canem ?
2968 
2969Braqish08/02/2019
2970I understood a word of that
2971 
2972carvor08/03/2019
2973Do you guys feel like developers break rule 9 a lot
2974 
2975Pacifica08/03/2019
2976No
2977 
2978S.P.Q.R08/03/2019
2979? Not really
2980 
2981Pacifica08/03/2019
2982I'd say we're a lot better than contribs and others
2983 
2984carvor08/03/2019
2985I want to ask the TLs as well since I'm not exactly unbiased in this regard
2986 
2987Internetismean08/03/2019
2988I don't think so
2989I've never seen much rule-breaking rule 9 by any role really
2990 
2991carvor08/03/2019
2992I've seen a lot of contribs do it on ceirtan servers
2993 
2994Internetismean08/03/2019
2995Huh
2996So talking about the mod in other servers?
2997 
2998carvor08/03/2019
2999Shittalking other team members
3000Mostly mods and devs
3001 
3002Internetismean08/03/2019
3003But why though?
3004 
3005carvor08/03/2019
3006I've seen team members call the mods "speertard cucks" and " keyboard warriors who think ban perms makes them hot shit."
3007A lot of people seem to think that all the higher ranking members are distainful towards contribs, and thus take administrative decisions as personal vendettas
3008 
3009Internetismean08/03/2019
3010I think that's an individual contrib problem
3011But there isn't much that can be done
3012 
3013carvor08/03/2019
3014:shrug: I only know what I know because people forgot that I was on a server and started openly doing it there
3015It's made me a lot more paranoid towards contrib tbh
3016 
3017Internetismean08/03/2019
3018I think it's a very small proportion the ones that do that
3019Or at least I hope
3020 
3021Pacifica08/03/2019
3022There’s a few that are unbelievably problematic in that regard
3023 
3024Braqish08/03/2019
3025Lmao I think most of the anti-mod types are upset at me the most, the rest of modgang is pretty chilled out
3026Either way if they're violating rule 9 on other servers, bring it up.
3027 
3028carvor08/03/2019
3029If I did we would loose a lot of members
3030Including people in this server
3031 
3032Braqish08/03/2019
3033Eyugh, valid
3034I just wish people would bring it up if they had a fucking problem. What good does bitching on other servers and passive-aggressive tipjar messages do? I've already stated I'm willing to hear people out.
3035If they still don't want to try and hash things out after I extend an offer it's on them.
3036Pisses me off
3037It's like they're deliberately avoiding taking steps that would help fix the issue
3038I get people having an issue with me since I've been a self-righteous asshole before but what have the other mods done wrong?
3039 
3040carvor08/03/2019
3041It's mostly just people mad at mod decisions
3042The two people who did it the most are off the team
3043 
3044Braqish08/03/2019
3045Valid
3046I just wish people would stop taking petty snipes at one another
3047For the love of fuckin' god let's air this dirty laundry and hash things out, you know?
3048 
3049carvor08/03/2019
3050Oh lmao and people have been leaking shit as well
3051 
3052Braqish08/03/2019
3053:disappointed:
3054Fucking of course
3055Even at my most bitter I wouldn't leak. That's unfair to the team and a real shit way to dab on them devs
3056Since you fuck over everyone else in the process
3057Why are they here if they're so bitter?
3058I don't get it
3059 
3060carvor08/03/2019
3061Mostly it goes
3062"complaint about controversial team descision blown way out of proportion"
3063cue former members seeing it and shittalking the current team
3064 
3065Braqish08/03/2019
3066:disappointed:
3067Yeah a lot of former members are way too fucking salty. I hate to use the "just doing our job" excuse but a lot of people are legitimately not aware of the problems TNO has. Hell, even I was fucking clueless before I ended up here
3068If you hate Panzer take it out on him and leave the team alone
3069 
3070carvor08/03/2019
3071Of course when I confront one of the contribs who was shittalking other team members about it, they just turn around and say 
3072lets not pretend you guys dont do the same
3073 
3074carvor08/12/2019
3075Right now this just seems like an exercise in futility
3076 
3077Pacifica08/12/2019
3078We’re all here because we gave up hope lol
3079 
3080LeonG1708/12/2019
3081Wait we had hope to begin with?
3082 
3083Pacifica08/12/2019
3084Germany lore is really hamstrung by the fact that every German is apparently a Nazi ideological drone.
3085 
3086carvor08/12/2019
3087To change that you'll need to add more paths which ain't happening
3088Goering already has content about violently suppressing everybody with dissenting ideals
3089Maybe something coherent will come out of this, but I severely doubt it
3090 
3091Pacifica08/12/2019
3092Sigh.
3093I’m sure there’s so much potential here.
3094But it’s on a... not the best foundation.
3095Is Debbel coming back from Africa soon?
3096 
3097carvor08/12/2019
3098:shrug:
3099 
3100AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3101We agreed that by August we should have finished
3102The end of August of course
3103 
3104carvor08/12/2019
3105I don't know what you guys are doing there, aren't all the RKs done?
3106 
3107AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3108Well, I'm revamping Zentralafrika so that it is actually fun to play as, and we are making them actually capable of waging the war
3109And we need some rebalancing
3110Other than that the rest is done, probably need some testing to see if everythings works together
3111 
3112Pacifica08/12/2019
3113When the Anglos are done, will they be repatriated to Germany?
3114 
3115carvor08/12/2019
3116No idea
3117My biggest concern is that the proposal will be purely lore based without Gameplay considerations
3118That might force me to cut it for time
3119I also severely dislike a lot of the suggestions about countries like Ostland being hard to defeat for Germany
3120As that makes little sense from both a lore and Gameplay perspective
3121 
3122carvor08/12/2019
3123Uh, do people really think that the sphere are the good guys
3124 
3125AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3126Team Members not realising that there are no good sides
3127 
3128carvor08/12/2019
3129Seriously I've seen this a few times and I'm starting to get a bit weirded out by it
3130 
3131AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3132I haven't looked into Japan team, I hope there's not too much white washing there
3133 
3134Pacifica08/12/2019
3135Well done @uncountablyInfinite for creating a perfect Leninist-Neocon Pipeline in the form of the TNO USA.
3136I think you may be able to have USA convert everyone into a neocon through its gameplay.
3137 
3138uncountablyInfinite08/12/2019
3139:jeb:
3140 
3141carvor08/12/2019
3142Is Japan team whitewashing imperial Japan?
3143 
3144Pacifica08/12/2019
3145Are they?
3146Uh
3147Who the fuck is Verlax
3148 
3149LeonG1708/12/2019
3150I don't know our own lore so I can't comment if we're whitewashing, although I has been an underlying concern of mine
3151 
3152Pacifica08/12/2019
3153Oh. He’s writing contest winner, not team lead.
3154We should really change the writing contest winner color
3155 
3156carvor08/12/2019
3157I'm also psedo concerned with Japan having examples of genocide and colonialism succeeding, I.e Korea
3158 
3159Pacifica08/12/2019
3160Didn’t Sphere Team decide that Japan would be immune to oil crisis/not affected too badly because reasons
3161Or what
3162 
3163AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3164There's a Japan Dev Diary in the works right ?
3165 
3166carvor08/12/2019
3167Yes
3168 
3169AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3170TFW I'll be learning Japan lore at the same time as the plebs
3171 
3172carvor08/12/2019
3173You can find a link in sphere dev
3174 
3175LeonG1708/12/2019
3176I don't remember us ever discussing any post 72 lore stuff such as the oil crisis for Japan, apart from the GAW
3177 
3178carvor08/12/2019
3179I remember something like that
3180 
3181LeonG1708/12/2019
3182Maybe it was before my time, Japan's lore creation dates back to last November
3183 
3184carvor08/12/2019
3185Iirc it was due to them forgetting the oil crisis and not making any lore for it
3186And when they got a reminder about it they wanted to ignore it
3187Iirc
3188 
3189AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3190I think I remember something like that
3191 
3192uncountablyInfinite08/12/2019
3193i don't think that's the case anymore though so
3194 
3195AtomicSoviet08/12/2019
3196And justifying it by saying that they have their own reserves I think
3197 
3198carvor08/12/2019
3199Yeah no idea what the status is right now
3200 
3201LeonG1708/12/2019
3202Pretty much most of Japan's lore dates back to last November and was formulated between Morrina, Kracc and Stug, when I joined that lore formulation between them seemed done
3203 
3204Pacifica08/12/2019
3205Since we’re talking bad lore
3206Have any of my lore been particularly bad
3207And I suppose I should ask, do any of you take issue with the way I act/speak?
3208 
3209carvor08/12/2019
3210Nothing from me
3211 
3212timbothy08/12/2019
3213If you want to ask about jaabn lore Morrina is in this server
3214 
3215carvor08/12/2019
3216Yes we know
3217I have talked with him through pms
3218 
3219Pacifica08/12/2019
3220Yes, that was probably a bad decision.
3221But I'm not going to back down if challenged, because fuck that.
3222 
3223uncountablyInfinite08/12/2019
3224?
3225 
3226timbothy08/12/2019
3227What happened now?
3228 
3229Pacifica08/12/2019
3230Check dev council
3231 
3232timbothy08/12/2019
3233oh lawd
3234 
3235Braqish08/12/2019
3236:disappointed:
3237 
3238GreatSalmon08/12/2019
3239Remember your integrity, but don’t do anything rash
3240 
3241Pacifica08/14/2019
3242I wonder why people are so insistent on turning Germany into a Soviet analogue
3243Seems a big pleb trend
3244 
3245Braqish08/14/2019
3246:disappointed:
3247so i really dislike the reddit plebs
3248but i think most discord plebs are just kind of
3249lost in their own lore
3250they don't really have any other options besides playing the leaks and most of them are decent enough not to do that
3251so you get shit like this
3252 
3253carvor08/14/2019
3254Because people can't bother to research actual Nazi policy and the way it would play out
3255 
3256Braqish08/14/2019
3257that too
3258 
3259carvor08/14/2019
3260I'd love to see Bormann carry out Großraumwirtschaft on the Pakt and ruin Europe's economy permanently for the next 50 years
3261 
3262Pacifica08/14/2019
3263We don’t have a proper Soviet Union analogue exactly
3264 
3265carvor08/14/2019
3266I mean
3267 
3268Pacifica08/14/2019
3269Closest thing we have is socialist Italy and maybe an actual restored Soviet Union.
3270 
3271carvor08/14/2019
3272We have the Soviet Union
3273 
3274S.P.Q.RLast Tuesday at 7:09 PM
3275The fucking dev chat fiasco
3276 
3277AtomicSovietLast Tuesday at 7:15 PM
3278:whyismauriceherejusttosuffer:
3279 
3280uncountablyInfiniteLast Tuesday at 7:18 PM
3281https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/559485218348859423.png?v=1
3282
3283 
3284AtomicSovietLast Tuesday at 7:19 PM
3285
3286 
3287S.P.Q.RLast Tuesday at 7:20 PM
3288https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379361975924424704/599624990220091435/Ytho.jpg
3289
3290 
3291AtomicSovietLast Tuesday at 7:20 PM
3292That was a lot of unnecessary chaos
3293 
3294timbothyLast Tuesday at 7:21 PM
3295Funny meme panzer
3296
3297 
3298BraqishLast Tuesday at 8:47 PM
3299:disappointed:
3300 
3301PacificaLast Friday at 9:43 AM
3302Monstergirls
3303 
3304carvorLast Friday at 9:43 AM
3305I never imagined monstergirls would become such a debacle
3306 
3307timbothyLast Friday at 10:26 AM
3308:tired_kishi:
3309 
3310BraqishLast Friday at 12:59 PM
3311:disappointed:
3312i wake up to a fucking fiasco and it's the goddamn monstergirls
3313 
3314PacificaLast Friday at 2:05 PM
3315> monstergirls
3316 
3317BraqishLast Friday at 2:09 PM
3318last i checked i didn't post scantily clad furries and i spoiler them when i do post something far from borderline out of respect for people who don't wish to engage in the conversation
3319mfer tryin' to use that as an excuse
3320i love the guy but jfc
3321 
3322PacificaLast Friday at 2:31 PM
3323Damnit @GreatSalmon you whore give me server admin powers I want to make roles
3324 
3325uncountablyInfiniteLast Friday at 2:32 PM
3326:thinking:
3327 
3328BraqishLast Friday at 2:32 PM
3329:someonesavehitler:
3330 
3331BraqishYesterday at 11:44 AM
3332you ever think you joined up with the wrong mod
3333i don't think any fucking mod has so many bitter ex-members and vitriol
3334
3335jesus fuckin' christ people despise me by virtue of being there
3336 
3337timbothyYesterday at 11:49 AM
3338I am just constantly legitimately baffled at how much drama a backwater hoi4 mod is able to stir up
3339It defies logic
3340And other mods really don’t seem to have the same issue
3341I wonder what’s different about TNO that makes it so prone to all this
3342 
3343BraqishYesterday at 11:51 AM
3344I wish I could say it all comes back to Panzer but it can't just be him
3345 
3346S.P.Q.RYesterday at 11:52 AM
3347The loud bombastic announcements and meme rules just invite this sort of thing. Do it quietly, and you invite it a bit less. @timbothy
3348 
3349BraqishYesterday at 11:52 AM
3350I'm fucking terrified of going to other HOI discords because I'm ginna get shrieked at
3351 
3352S.P.Q.RYesterday at 11:53 AM
3353I'll go out on a limb and say that some of Panzer's behavior and weird sense of humor is what invites a lot of the mockery.
3354 
3355timbothyYesterday at 11:54 AM
3356I suppose so
3357 
3358S.P.Q.RYesterday at 11:54 AM
3359I may not have that much modding server experience due to being in... 3 (2 in an... OK measure and one barely)  but you do not get this feeling of erraticness in others.
3360 
3361timbothyYesterday at 11:54 AM
3362I can’t think of any other mod that’s as tied to a singular personality as much as TNO is to panzer
3363 
3364S.P.Q.RYesterday at 11:55 AM
3365Yeah, and no other devs can be as... eccentric in public chats as Panzer can be sometimes.
3366 
3367BraqishYesterday at 11:56 AM
3368Makes me wonder how we'll do when he's gone
3369 
3370S.P.Q.RYesterday at 11:56 AM
3371Not all are released but he gives off a certain vibe, so to say.
3372 
3373carvorYesterday at 11:56 AM
3374Most other mods have similar problems
3375And I completely fail to understand why anyone would ever be interested in public chats
3376 
3377timbothyYesterday at 11:58 AM
3378I mean, that’s literally all plebs see
3379 
3380S.P.Q.RYesterday at 11:59 AM
3381TNO's are... yeah. Oddly enough the (eternal example which I do not deny has problems of its own and may be brought up too much, but it is the one I am most familiar with) KR public chats are far less problematic for some reason.
3382 
3383timbothyYesterday at 11:59 AM
3384Which is astonishing given how the KR subreddit can be
3385But KR doesn’t seem to have any of the same drama despite being far larger and having been around much longer
3386 
3387S.P.Q.RYesterday at 12:00 PM
3388That one can be a dumpster fire yeah
3389But yeah, don't know just what is that X-factor
3390 
3391PacificaYesterday at 12:06 PM
3392Kaiserreich released
3393It doesn't entirely rely on edging a community for years
3394 
3395carvorYesterday at 12:07 PM
3396I wish I left a week ago so that I didn't have to see that the majority of the people who I thought were my friends in the community were actually just massive assholes with no qualms about talking shit about people behind their backs
3397 
3398PacificaYesterday at 12:09 PM
3399Me too
3400I regret some of the things I've said about TNO/Panzer here when I was upset
3401It wasn't right for me to actually be insulting because I was emotionally messed up
3402 
3403carvorYesterday at 12:14 PM
3404Oh and trust me this aint unique to TNO
3405A few days ago someone on another mod i was on was kicked after being caught faking Screenshots from discord
3406 
3407BraqishYesterday at 12:16 PM
3408:disappointed: i still regret getting involved
3409Just should've stayed a pleb
3410I still fantasize about quietly ghosting from TNO
3411And HOI4 in general
3412 
3413AtomicSovietYesterday at 1:55 PM
3414I just don't get involved with the pleb chats
3415Because I don't have a lot to say, and I'm happy doing my little stuff in my own bubble
3416 
3417carvorYesterday at 1:57 PM
3418I avoid pleb chats like the plague
3419 
3420LeonG17Yesterday at 2:03 PM
3421I enjoy seeing them when a leak or diary comes out and they get excited, otherwise yeah I don't really have much to say nowadays and I fear accidently leaking something
3422 
3423AtomicSovietYesterday at 2:05 PM
3424I feel like the only reason why there's not a lot of people who hates me is because I'm in my little corner of the world
3425Cozy Africa
3426 
3427BraqishYesterday at 2:33 PM
3428Plebs are mostly good people, a lot of it can be chalked up to immaturity
3429I do think they generally get too much shit as a whole. Besides the unfunny shitposts they're a good lot