KHVqmyL0

11
200:03:25,304 --> 00:03:27,221
3- Coffee?
4- Yeah, thank you.
5
62
700:03:29,474 --> 00:03:31,183
8How have you liked your stay?
9
103
1100:03:32,477 --> 00:03:35,438
12What I've seen, I've liked.
13
144
1500:03:39,818 --> 00:03:43,070
16Please to explain why
17I should agree to interview
18
195
2000:03:43,155 --> 00:03:45,823
21with pro-Zionist American media?
22
236
2400:03:47,326 --> 00:03:49,327
25Because I think Hezbollah
26
277
2800:03:49,494 --> 00:03:53,748
29is trying to broaden
30into a political party right now,
31
328
3300:03:53,832 --> 00:03:56,584
34so you care about what you're
35thought of in America,
36
379
3800:03:56,668 --> 00:04:02,673
39and in America at this moment in time,
40Hezbollah does not have a face.
41
4210
4300:04:02,758 --> 00:04:03,841
44That's why.
45
4611
4700:04:03,967 --> 00:04:06,427
48Perhaps you prove journalism objectivity,
49
5012
5100:04:06,511 --> 00:04:08,638
52and I see the questions first.
53
5413
5500:04:08,722 --> 00:04:11,682
56Then I decide if I grant the interview.
57
5814
5900:04:11,767 --> 00:04:13,893
60No, we don't do that.
61
6215
6300:04:14,853 --> 00:04:17,688
64You've seen 60 Minutes and Mike Wallace,
65
6616
6700:04:17,773 --> 00:04:20,942
68so you know our reputation
69for integrity and objectivity.
70
7117
7200:04:21,026 --> 00:04:25,363
73You also know we are the highest-rated,
74most-respected
75
7618
7700:04:26,114 --> 00:04:29,116
78TV magazine news show in America.
79
8019
8100:04:36,708 --> 00:04:39,835
82So, Mr. Wallace... Should
83he get on a plane or not?
84
8520
8600:04:41,922 --> 00:04:44,882
87Tell him I'll see him day after tomorrow.
88
8921
9000:04:45,175 --> 00:04:46,968
91That's good. That works.
92
9322
9400:04:50,889 --> 00:04:55,226
95I want to ask you something.
96I know it sounds odd, but...
97
9823
9900:04:59,648 --> 00:05:07,321
100Hello? Sheikh?
101
10224
10300:05:14,579 --> 00:05:16,497
104- Norman?
105- What? What?
106
10725
10800:05:17,165 --> 00:05:19,166
109Take your blindfold off.
110
11126
11200:05:25,090 --> 00:05:27,133
113Welcome to the world.
114
11527
11600:05:32,848 --> 00:05:35,433
117Fluctuating all over the place.
118
11928
12000:05:36,101 --> 00:05:39,437
121Anywhere we shoot here, it's gonna be
122portable gennies and we'll run cable.
123
12429
12500:05:50,115 --> 00:05:53,367
126- Hello?
127- Mike, it's me. We're on.
128
12930
13000:07:46,731 --> 00:07:48,566
131- Hi, honey.
132- Hi, Daddy.
133
13431
13500:07:48,650 --> 00:07:49,650
136What's new?
137
13832
13900:07:49,943 --> 00:07:51,402
140Miss Loughrey gave me a star today.
141
14233
14300:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,196
144Yeah? What for?
145
14634
14700:07:54,281 --> 00:07:57,074
148- For reading.
149- That's great.
150
15135
15200:08:04,791 --> 00:08:07,418
153A little early for cartoons, isn't it?
154
15536
15600:08:08,962 --> 00:08:10,629
157Okay.
158
15937
16000:08:17,929 --> 00:08:19,805
161Deborah? Debbie?
162
16338
16400:08:29,107 --> 00:08:32,902
165Oh, I didn't know you were home.
166It's early, isn't it?
167
16839
16900:08:36,406 --> 00:08:38,616
170Gotta take Debbie to ballet.
171
17240
17300:08:39,534 --> 00:08:40,701
174Mommy!
175
17641
17700:08:49,961 --> 00:08:51,712
178Sweetheart, come on. Come on.
179
18042
18100:08:51,838 --> 00:08:53,923
182She was playing with my Pooh doll again.
183
18443
18500:08:54,591 --> 00:08:57,801
186Slow down, slow down, slow down.
187Breathe deep, breathe deep.
188
18944
19000:09:00,764 --> 00:09:02,556
191Slow down, honey. Slow down.
192
19345
19400:09:03,725 --> 00:09:05,184
195Slow down.
196
19746
19800:09:06,144 --> 00:09:07,311
199Here we go.
200
20147
20200:09:07,687 --> 00:09:11,273
203- Deep breaths. Deep breaths.
204- She was playing with the Pooh doll.
205
20648
20700:09:11,358 --> 00:09:13,025
208Pooh's dusty, sweetheart.
209
21049
21100:09:13,109 --> 00:09:16,237
212He's dusty and you breathed him in, okay?
213
21450
21500:09:16,321 --> 00:09:17,571
216So, what's happening to you...
217Look at me.
218
21951
22000:09:17,656 --> 00:09:20,366
221What's happening to you now
222is cells called "mass cells"
223
22452
22500:09:21,117 --> 00:09:24,662
226told your lungs, "Don't breathe
227any more of that dust in."
228
22953
23000:09:24,746 --> 00:09:27,122
231And the airways in your lungs
232are like branches,
233
23454
23500:09:27,832 --> 00:09:31,126
236and when the branches close up,
237you get an asthmatic attack,
238
23955
24000:09:31,211 --> 00:09:35,714
241and we give you medicine and you get better.
242Uh-huh? Okay?
243
24456
24500:09:36,508 --> 00:09:38,801
246Better already, aren't you?
247
24857
24900:09:46,977 --> 00:09:48,352
250Okay, baby?
251
25258
25300:09:56,903 --> 00:09:59,405
254Can I go to dance tomorrow? I'm better.
255
25659
25700:09:59,489 --> 00:10:03,117
258If you are, then I'll take Barbara
259to soccer and take you to dance after.
260
26160
26200:10:03,451 --> 00:10:04,618
263I can take her.
264
26561
26600:10:05,787 --> 00:10:07,371
267Don't you have to be at the office?
268
26962
27000:10:09,499 --> 00:10:12,584
271- Is there any more rice?
272- Yes, it's on the stove.
273
27463
27500:10:16,506 --> 00:10:19,800
276- Do you want more rice?
277- Maybe later.
278
27964
28000:10:19,884 --> 00:10:21,719
281- How about you?
282- I'll take some.
283
28465
28500:10:21,803 --> 00:10:22,886
286Instant rice?
287
28866
28900:10:28,977 --> 00:10:30,686
290Can I go over to Jeanine's house?
291
29267
29300:10:31,104 --> 00:10:32,771
294I'm sorry, darling. Have
295you seen my coffee mug?
296
29768
29800:10:34,065 --> 00:10:35,190
299Try the car.
300
30169
30200:10:57,756 --> 00:10:59,715
303What are those boxes?
304
30570
30600:11:00,925 --> 00:11:02,301
307I'm going to the store.
308You need anything?
309
31071
31100:11:02,385 --> 00:11:04,178
312- What do you need at the store?
313- Soy sauce.
314
31572
31600:11:04,262 --> 00:11:05,262
317Right now?
318
31973
32000:11:06,639 --> 00:11:07,973
321That's my stuff from the office.
322
32374
32400:11:08,058 --> 00:11:10,684
325Why did you take your stuff
326from the office?
327
32875
32900:11:10,769 --> 00:11:13,479
330- I didn't want to leave it there.
331- I don't understand.
332
33376
33400:11:17,233 --> 00:11:18,942
335I got fired this morning.
336
33777
33800:11:20,362 --> 00:11:21,945
339Where else am I gonna take it?
340
34178
34200:11:23,448 --> 00:11:24,948
343Why?
344
34579
34600:11:25,617 --> 00:11:28,369
347- Who said?
348- Thomas Sandefur.
349
35080
35100:11:33,291 --> 00:11:35,501
352What are we supposed to do?
353
35481
35500:11:36,961 --> 00:11:40,798
356What about our medical coverage?
357What about our health?
358
35982
36000:11:40,882 --> 00:11:45,135
361What about our car payments?
362The payments on this house?
363
36483
36500:11:53,812 --> 00:11:56,522
366The severance agreement
367includes cash payoffs over time
368
36984
37000:11:56,606 --> 00:11:58,649
371and continuing medical coverage.
372
37385
37400:11:59,484 --> 00:12:01,318
375Sure you don't need anything?
376
37786
37800:12:01,820 --> 00:12:03,779
379No, thank you.
380
38187
38200:12:11,788 --> 00:12:13,414
383Jeffrey?
384
38588
38600:12:32,142 --> 00:12:36,019
387I am very pleased to receive
388you as my guest, Mr. Wallace.
389
39089
39100:12:36,604 --> 00:12:37,729
392Well, thank you for having us.
393
39490
39500:12:38,898 --> 00:12:41,859
396Think I got a problem with the gennie.
397I gotta go outside.
398
39991
40000:12:45,864 --> 00:12:47,573
401Give me a hand with this, will you?
402
40392
40400:12:50,743 --> 00:12:52,327
405Norman!
406
40793
40800:12:56,249 --> 00:12:59,293
409- He says, you must not sit so close.
410- What?
411
41294
41300:13:01,129 --> 00:13:03,630
414I can't conduct an interview
415from back there.
416
41795
41800:13:07,719 --> 00:13:10,262
419You must move back your chair.
420
42196
42200:13:10,763 --> 00:13:13,223
423Well, you tell him that when
424I conduct an interview,
425
42697
42700:13:13,308 --> 00:13:16,226
428I sit anywhere I damn please.
429
43098
43100:13:22,442 --> 00:13:23,609
432There is no interview.
433
43499
43500:13:24,903 --> 00:13:25,903
436You!
437
438100
43900:13:26,946 --> 00:13:27,946
440I'm talking to you!
441
442101
44300:13:28,031 --> 00:13:31,074
444What the hell do you think
445I am, a 78-year-old assassin?
446
447102
44800:13:31,493 --> 00:13:34,495
449You think I'm gonna karate him
450to death with this notepad?
451
452103
45300:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,795
454- Are you interpreting what I'm saying?
455- Yes.
456
457104
45800:13:43,880 --> 00:13:44,922
459- We're there.
460- Good.
461
462105
46300:13:45,048 --> 00:13:47,090
464Well, ask him ifArabic
465is his second language.
466
467106
46800:13:47,717 --> 00:13:49,718
469Don't interpret that. Hold it.
470
471107
47200:13:49,802 --> 00:13:52,262
473Hold it! Hold it! Slow! Slow!
474
475108
47600:13:53,139 --> 00:13:55,265
477Sheikh, do you mind?
478
479109
48000:13:55,350 --> 00:13:59,645
481If you would just turn your chair
482a little bit to face Mr. Wallace.
483
484110
48500:14:03,107 --> 00:14:04,233
486- Is that okay?
487- Okay.
488
489111
49000:14:07,153 --> 00:14:10,197
491Are you ready or do you
492wanna keep fucking around
493
494112
49500:14:10,281 --> 00:14:11,698
496and warm up some more?
497
498113
49900:14:11,783 --> 00:14:14,701
500- No, I've got my heart started.
501- Okay.
502
503114
50400:14:16,329 --> 00:14:18,163
505All right, Todd.
506
507115
50800:14:19,749 --> 00:14:22,626
509Give me the three-button on Mike, please.
510
511116
51200:14:23,670 --> 00:14:25,837
513Good. Good.
514
515117
51600:14:27,257 --> 00:14:28,465
517Okay, we are rolling.
518
519118
52000:14:33,221 --> 00:14:34,596
521Okay, Mike.
522
523119
52400:14:35,139 --> 00:14:38,058
525Sheikh Fadlallah, thank you
526so much for seeing us.
527
528120
52900:14:38,142 --> 00:14:39,309
530Are you a terrorist?
531
532121
53300:14:40,937 --> 00:14:44,648
534Mr. Wallace, I am a servant of God.
535
536122
53700:14:45,108 --> 00:14:47,568
538A servant of God? Really?
539
540123
54100:14:48,194 --> 00:14:51,405
542Americans believe that you,
543as an Islamic fundamentalist,
544
545124
54600:14:51,489 --> 00:14:56,994
547that you are a leader who contributed
548to the bombing of the US Embassy.
549
550125
55100:15:19,475 --> 00:15:22,144
552Everybody thinks Canadian
553Mounties ride horses
554
555126
55600:15:22,228 --> 00:15:23,770
557and rescue ladies from rapids.
558
559127
56000:15:23,855 --> 00:15:27,190
561Mike, they backed locals
562in Oka in a fight with Mohawks
563
564128
56500:15:27,275 --> 00:15:29,943
566over building a golf course
567on their burial site,
568
569129
57000:15:30,028 --> 00:15:32,362
571they beat up protesters at Kanehsatake.
572
573130
57400:15:34,824 --> 00:15:36,908
575- Where'd you hear that?
576- Hello.
577
578131
57900:15:36,993 --> 00:15:40,829
580Oh, someone took a poll? "Are
581all things Canadian boring?"
582
583132
58400:15:40,913 --> 00:15:43,081
585- It's Stuart. He's in Mexico City.
586- Oh. Let me call you back.
587
588133
58900:15:44,125 --> 00:15:45,751
590Yeah, Stuart?
591
592134
59300:15:46,711 --> 00:15:47,753
594- What New York bank?
595- Hey, Dad.
596
597135
59800:15:49,672 --> 00:15:52,716
599Will he go on camera and talk
600about the Mexico City branch?
601
602136
60300:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,843
604- Hey, Jake.
605- Whose money are they laundering?
606
607137
60800:15:54,927 --> 00:15:58,555
609- No classes this morning?
610- I don't have to be there till 10:30.
611
612138
61300:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,682
614- Hey, Mom. Hello.
615- Hi, sweetheart.
616
617139
61800:16:05,897 --> 00:16:08,357
619- Hello? Yeah.
620- Do independent sources corroborate?
621
622140
62300:16:13,946 --> 00:16:15,822
624- Dad, you got a box out here.
625- Let me see this a second.
626
627141
62800:16:17,033 --> 00:16:19,660
629'Cause I gotta know where
630you're going at all times.
631
632142
63300:16:31,589 --> 00:16:33,256
634I can't. I've gotta fly
635to Boston tomorrow.
636
637143
63800:16:34,217 --> 00:16:37,427
6392:00 p.m. Great. Bye-bye.
640
641144
64200:16:38,221 --> 00:16:42,182
643"Ignition propensity." You
644understand any of this?
645
646145
64700:16:47,105 --> 00:16:48,563
648No.
649
650146
65100:16:50,441 --> 00:16:52,359
652This looks like a table of temperatures.
653
654147
65500:16:52,860 --> 00:16:55,112
656- Who's this from?
657- It's anonymous.
658
659148
66000:16:55,947 --> 00:16:58,115
661References to "P.M."
662
663149
66400:16:58,783 --> 00:17:00,450
665It's gotta be Phillip Morris, huh?
666
667150
66800:17:00,868 --> 00:17:03,370
669Hmm. I have to take a shower.
670
671151
67200:17:23,307 --> 00:17:24,307
673Yeah?
674
675152
67600:17:24,684 --> 00:17:28,186
677- Hi, this is Doug Oliver.
678- Oh, hi, Doug. It's Lowell.
679
680153
68100:17:28,646 --> 00:17:30,105
682I'm doing this story on fire safety,
683
684154
68500:17:30,189 --> 00:17:32,399
686and people burning
687up from falling asleep smoking.
688
689155
69000:17:32,483 --> 00:17:36,903
691I receive a shitload of scientific
692papers from inside Phillip Morris.
693
694156
69500:17:37,155 --> 00:17:39,406
696Anonymous. You or anybody in FDA
697
698157
69900:17:39,490 --> 00:17:43,452
700know someone who can translate
701this stuff into English for me?
702
703158
70400:17:43,828 --> 00:17:44,911
705Uh, yeah.
706
707159
70800:18:01,512 --> 00:18:02,512
709Hello?
710
711160
71200:18:04,015 --> 00:18:05,140
713Mr. Wigand, please?
714
715161
71600:18:06,392 --> 00:18:08,685
717Someone's calling for Daddy, Mom.
718
719162
72000:18:12,690 --> 00:18:14,608
721Oh. Thank you, Bob.
722
723163
72400:18:14,692 --> 00:18:17,194
725- Who's calling?
726- My name is Lowell Bergman.
727
728164
72900:18:17,278 --> 00:18:21,740
730- Did you say "Berman?"
731- No, Bergman. B-E-R-G-M-A-N.
732
733165
73400:18:21,824 --> 00:18:24,117
735- I'm a producer for 60 Minutes.
736- 60 Minutes?
737
738166
73900:18:24,202 --> 00:18:25,202
740Yeah.
741
742167
74300:18:25,536 --> 00:18:28,705
744- 60 Minutes, the television show?
745- Yes.
746
747168
74800:18:29,457 --> 00:18:30,707
749He doesn't want to talk to you.
750
751169
75200:18:33,085 --> 00:18:34,252
753How does he know he doesn't
754want to talk to me?
755
756170
75700:18:34,337 --> 00:18:35,754
758He doesn't know what I'm
759calling him about.
760
761171
76200:18:36,672 --> 00:18:38,215
763He doesn't care to know.
764
765172
76600:19:02,573 --> 00:19:03,824
767This is the Wigands'.
768
769173
77000:19:03,908 --> 00:19:07,410
771If you'd like to leave a message
772orsend a fax, start now.
773
774174
77500:19:07,495 --> 00:19:09,454
776This is Lowell Bergman with 60 Minutes,
777
778175
77900:19:09,539 --> 00:19:12,374
780and I'm doing a story on fire
781safety and cigarettes.
782
783176
78400:19:12,458 --> 00:19:15,669
785I have scientific documents
786from a tobacco company
787
788177
78900:19:15,753 --> 00:19:18,505
790and I could use your help as a consultant
791
792178
79300:19:18,589 --> 00:19:20,423
794explaining these documents to me.
795
796179
79700:19:20,508 --> 00:19:26,680
798Now, my number is area code 510-555-0199.
799
800180
80100:19:26,764 --> 00:19:29,266
802I'll be there at this
803number in 10 minutes.
804
805181
80600:21:59,834 --> 00:22:04,337
807If you're curious to meet me,
808I'm gonna be in the lobby
809
810182
81100:22:04,422 --> 00:22:08,133
812of the Seelbach Hotel in Louisville
813
814183
81500:22:08,217 --> 00:22:11,678
816reading The New York
817Times tomorrow at 5:00.
818
819184
82000:23:30,299 --> 00:23:32,550
821Have you always lived in Louisville?
822
823185
82400:23:33,677 --> 00:23:36,971
825Mr. Bergman, what did you
826want me to consult about?
827
828186
82900:23:39,850 --> 00:23:40,934
830Who's that?
831
832187
83300:23:42,561 --> 00:23:43,978
834That's room service.
835
836188
83700:23:45,689 --> 00:23:46,815
838They usually knock first.
839
840189
84100:23:48,859 --> 00:23:51,861
842Come on in. Over here, please.
843
844190
84500:24:02,123 --> 00:24:03,331
846Thank you.
847
848191
84900:24:03,999 --> 00:24:06,543
850How do you like your coffee? Black?
851
852192
85300:24:06,627 --> 00:24:08,378
854Black. Black.
855
856193
85700:24:09,964 --> 00:24:12,215
858I really don't have that much time.
859
860194
86100:24:15,052 --> 00:24:17,637
862Is there anything you want
863to know about me, Mr. Wigand?
864
865195
86600:24:17,721 --> 00:24:19,848
867Like what? Your sign?
868
869196
87000:24:23,227 --> 00:24:26,437
871- I know what I have to know.
872- Just so I know you know,
873
874197
87500:24:27,231 --> 00:24:30,942
876when I talk to people
877in confidence, it stays that way.
878
879198
88000:24:33,487 --> 00:24:37,323
881How did a radical journalist
882from Ramparts Magazine end up at CBS?
883
884199
88500:24:40,202 --> 00:24:44,706
886I still do the tough stories. 60
887Minutes reaches a lot of people.
888
889200
89000:24:48,335 --> 00:24:50,378
891Let me see the documents.
892
893201
89400:25:17,865 --> 00:25:22,619
895This is a fire-safety product
896study for Phillip Morris.
897
898202
89900:25:24,121 --> 00:25:27,916
900Burn rates, ignition propensity,
901things of this nature.
902
903203
90400:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,002
905I could very easily explain
906this to you in layman's terms
907
908204
90900:25:31,086 --> 00:25:34,464
910because it's from another company,
911but that's as far as I go.
912
913205
91400:25:34,798 --> 00:25:36,591
915As far as you go where?
916
917206
91800:25:38,344 --> 00:25:39,719
919This issue is a drop in the bucket.
920
921207
92200:25:39,803 --> 00:25:41,804
923I can talk to you
924about what's in here, but I...
925
926208
92700:25:41,889 --> 00:25:43,473
928I can't talk to you about anything else.
929
930209
93100:25:48,646 --> 00:25:51,856
932I signed a confidentiality agreement.
933I honor agreements.
934
935210
93600:25:56,070 --> 00:25:58,154
937Doesn't CBS have confidentiality
938agreements, Mr. Bergman?
939
940211
94100:25:58,781 --> 00:26:01,783
942Between journalists and management,
943yes, I believe they do.
944
945212
94600:26:02,493 --> 00:26:05,578
947But I don't take that seriously.
948Where do you work?
949
950213
95100:26:07,081 --> 00:26:08,831
952- "Did work."
953- Did work?
954
955214
95600:26:08,958 --> 00:26:11,376
957How much would I get paid?
958
959215
96000:26:15,172 --> 00:26:18,758
961That you have to discuss
962with CBS Business Affairs.
963
964216
96500:26:18,842 --> 00:26:23,346
966But for something like this, I would say
967anywhere between $10, $12,000.
968
969217
97000:26:27,518 --> 00:26:29,477
971Should I just take the documents now?
972
973218
97400:26:30,729 --> 00:26:32,188
975If you want to do it.
976
977219
97800:26:40,030 --> 00:26:45,410
979I worked as a head of Research
980and Development for Brown & Williamson.
981
982220
98300:26:45,494 --> 00:26:47,036
984Tobacco company.
985
986221
98700:26:51,375 --> 00:26:54,085
988I was a corporate vice-president.
989
990222
99100:26:55,629 --> 00:26:57,338
992Mr. Bergman.
993
994223
99500:27:25,701 --> 00:27:26,951
996PresidentAssad of Syria
997
998224
99900:27:27,036 --> 00:27:29,495
1000said that difficult obstacles remain,
1001
1002225
100300:27:29,580 --> 00:27:31,247
1004but that his country, quote,
1005
1006226
100700:27:31,332 --> 00:27:34,667
1008"looks forward to a great
1009long peace with lsrael."
1010
1011227
101200:27:34,752 --> 00:27:37,462
1013That's a Peabody, Mike.
1014
1015228
101600:27:37,546 --> 00:27:38,713
1017When you're dead and buried,
1018
1019229
102000:27:38,797 --> 00:27:40,840
1021Hezbollah is the one we're
1022gonna remember you for.
1023
1024230
102500:27:43,052 --> 00:27:45,219
1026- Are you eating with us?
1027- Yeah.
1028
1029231
103000:27:45,304 --> 00:27:47,722
1031Bring a tie so they let
1032us in the front door.
1033
1034232
103500:27:49,141 --> 00:27:50,391
1036Come on.
1037
1038233
103900:27:58,484 --> 00:28:00,443
1040- Debbie!
1041- Hey, Lowell.
1042
1043234
104400:28:01,278 --> 00:28:03,988
1045Oh, Bill, Main Justice is investigating
1046a major New York bank
1047
1048235
104900:28:04,073 --> 00:28:06,199
1050laundering narco dollars
1051out of their Mexico City branch.
1052
1053236
105400:28:06,283 --> 00:28:07,283
1055You want it for the evening news?
1056
1057237
105800:28:07,493 --> 00:28:08,701
1059What about you? You got a crew already?
1060
1061238
106200:28:08,786 --> 00:28:09,911
1063- I'm gonna do a follow-up.
1064- Okay.
1065
1066239
106700:28:09,995 --> 00:28:10,995
1068Catch you later.
1069
1070240
107100:28:17,336 --> 00:28:18,711
1072- Debbie.
1073- How are you?
1074
1075241
107600:28:18,962 --> 00:28:21,839
1077I want you to get Legal on a corporate
1078confidentiality agreement.
1079
1080242
108100:28:21,924 --> 00:28:22,965
1082Okay.
1083
1084243
108500:28:23,050 --> 00:28:27,345
1086Boundaries of their constraint,
1087Kentucky state law about...
1088
1089244
109000:28:27,846 --> 00:28:29,555
1091- I want you to drop everything.
1092- Okay.
1093
1094245
109500:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,932
1096I don't have any change.
1097You got some change?
1098
1099246
110000:28:31,016 --> 00:28:32,141
1101Here.
1102
1103247
110400:28:40,984 --> 00:28:42,360
1105Tony.
1106
1107248
110800:28:58,335 --> 00:29:00,962
1109Mr. Wigand, you can go up now.
1110
1111249
111200:29:24,361 --> 00:29:29,115
1113Sorry. I'm accepting an award
1114from the Retinitis Pigmentosa Foundation.
1115
1116250
111700:29:29,700 --> 00:29:32,034
1118It's gonna kill the rest of my day.
1119
1120251
112100:29:38,041 --> 00:29:42,170
1122So, have you had a chance to play golf?
1123
1124252
112500:29:42,254 --> 00:29:45,965
1126Jeff's a premier golfer. What
1127are you, a two handicap?
1128
1129253
113000:29:47,050 --> 00:29:48,050
1131Seven.
1132
1133254
113400:29:48,135 --> 00:29:52,138
1135And he gets out there
1136and he has five strokes on us.
1137
1138255
113900:29:52,222 --> 00:29:55,433
1140He has more concentration
1141than anybody I've ever met.
1142
1143256
114400:29:55,517 --> 00:29:58,853
1145It's spooky how he can concentrate.
1146
1147257
114800:30:01,815 --> 00:30:03,941
1149I'd rather play than talk about it.
1150
1151258
115200:30:05,694 --> 00:30:06,861
1153What did you want to see me about?
1154
1155259
115600:30:08,572 --> 00:30:10,239
1157I don't like being back here.
1158
1159260
116000:30:10,824 --> 00:30:13,326
1161Jeffrey says exactly what's on his mind.
1162
1163261
116400:30:13,410 --> 00:30:16,162
1165Most people consider what they're
1166saying, social skills.
1167
1168262
116900:30:16,830 --> 00:30:19,123
1170Jeffrey just charges right ahead.
1171
1172263
117300:30:20,751 --> 00:30:24,378
1174Now, I know you understood the nature
1175of the confidentiality portion
1176
1177264
117800:30:24,463 --> 00:30:27,423
1179of your severance agreement
1180with Brown & Williamson.
1181
1182265
118300:30:27,508 --> 00:30:30,259
1184- Chapter and verse.
1185- Yeah, I know you do.
1186
1187266
118800:30:30,552 --> 00:30:34,388
1189You know, I came up through sales.
1190
1191267
119200:30:34,473 --> 00:30:36,724
1193One of the reasons I was a great salesman
1194
1195268
119600:30:36,808 --> 00:30:39,810
1197was I never made a promise
1198I couldn't keep.
1199
1200269
120100:30:40,270 --> 00:30:44,857
1202I knew that if I ever broke my promise,
1203I'd suffer the consequence.
1204
1205270
120600:30:45,734 --> 00:30:47,318
1207Is that a threat?
1208
1209271
121000:30:48,737 --> 00:30:52,031
1211We worked together for,
1212what was it, three years?
1213
1214272
121500:30:52,115 --> 00:30:55,535
1216The work we did here is confidential,
1217not for public scrutiny
1218
1219273
122000:30:55,619 --> 00:30:57,286
1221any more than are one's family matters.
1222
1223274
122400:30:57,955 --> 00:30:59,580
1225You're threatening my family now, too?
1226
1227275
122800:31:00,874 --> 00:31:03,459
1229Now, don't be paranoid, Jeff.
1230
1231276
123200:31:03,544 --> 00:31:06,587
1233About the direction of research here,
1234we may have had our differences, but...
1235
1236277
123700:31:06,672 --> 00:31:08,673
1238Research.
1239
1240278
124100:31:08,757 --> 00:31:11,551
1242You declare as a badge of honor you
1243don't even know what makes water boil.
1244
1245279
124600:31:11,802 --> 00:31:14,303
1247Well, that's why we hire scientists.
1248
1249280
125000:31:14,388 --> 00:31:16,430
1251Okay.
1252
1253281
125400:31:17,808 --> 00:31:20,518
1255I don't believe that you can
1256maintain corporate integrity
1257
1258282
125900:31:20,602 --> 00:31:22,144
1260without confidentiality agreements.
1261
1262283
126300:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,398
1264I was paid well for my work,
1265
1266284
126700:31:25,482 --> 00:31:28,609
1268the health and welfare benefits are good,
1269
1270285
127100:31:28,694 --> 00:31:30,778
1272the severance package is fair.
1273
1274286
127500:31:32,072 --> 00:31:35,491
1276I have no intention of violating
1277my confidentiality agreement
1278
1279287
128000:31:35,576 --> 00:31:38,619
1281and disclosing
1282that which I said I wouldn't.
1283
1284288
128500:31:40,247 --> 00:31:42,665
1286I appreciate all that, Jeff,
1287
1288289
128900:31:42,749 --> 00:31:48,254
1290but upon reflection, we've decided
1291to expand our zone of comfort with you.
1292
1293290
129400:31:48,338 --> 00:31:51,465
1295So we've drafted a supplement
1296to your agreement.
1297
1298291
129900:31:52,718 --> 00:31:58,222
1300It broadly defines and expands
1301in more detail what is confidential.
1302
1303292
130400:31:58,307 --> 00:31:59,932
1305Nobody will be able to say,
1306
1307293
130800:32:00,017 --> 00:32:04,353
1309"Well, hell's bells, Margaret,
1310I didn't know that was a secret."
1311
1312294
131300:32:05,689 --> 00:32:07,940
1314We're very serious
1315about protecting our interests.
1316
1317295
131800:32:08,358 --> 00:32:09,859
1319We'd like you to sign it.
1320
1321296
132200:32:12,487 --> 00:32:14,614
1323And if I don't?
1324
1325297
132600:32:14,698 --> 00:32:18,034
1327If we arrive at the conclusion
1328that you're acting in bad faith,
1329
1330298
133100:32:18,118 --> 00:32:22,079
1332we would terminate right now payoffs
1333under your severance package,
1334
1335299
133600:32:22,164 --> 00:32:23,539
1337you and your family's medical benefits
1338
1339300
134000:32:23,624 --> 00:32:27,293
1341and initiate litigation
1342against you, Mr. Wigand.
1343
1344301
134500:32:28,754 --> 00:32:31,339
1346- Dr. Wigand.
1347- Dr. Wigand.
1348
1349302
135000:32:32,883 --> 00:32:34,091
1351If you've examined the document,
1352
1353303
135400:32:34,176 --> 00:32:37,803
1355you'll see it's in your own best
1356interest and you'll sign it.
1357
1358304
135900:32:44,478 --> 00:32:48,814
1360What you're saying is it isn't
1361enough that you fired me for no good reason.
1362
1363305
136400:32:48,899 --> 00:32:51,025
1365Now you question my integrity?
1366
1367306
136800:32:51,777 --> 00:32:54,028
1369On top of the humiliation of being fired,
1370
1371307
137200:32:54,112 --> 00:32:58,115
1373you threaten me, you threaten my family?
1374
1375308
137600:32:59,326 --> 00:33:02,328
1377It never crossed my mind
1378not to honor my agreement.
1379
1380309
138100:33:02,412 --> 00:33:07,333
1382I will tell you, Mr. Sandefur, and Brown
1383& Williamson, too... "Fuck me"?
1384
1385310
138600:33:07,417 --> 00:33:08,668
1387Well, fuck you!
1388
1389311
139000:33:18,512 --> 00:33:19,679
1391I'm not sure he got the message.
1392
1393312
139400:33:21,973 --> 00:33:23,557
1395Oh, I think he did.
1396
1397313
139800:33:37,239 --> 00:33:38,698
1399- Yeah.
1400- You fucked me!
1401
1402314
140300:33:39,741 --> 00:33:40,866
1404Who's this?
1405
1406315
140700:33:41,451 --> 00:33:44,495
1408Protect your sources? You screwed me!
1409You sold me out!
1410
1411316
141200:33:46,415 --> 00:33:47,998
1413What are you talking about?
1414Where are you?
1415
1416317
141700:33:48,125 --> 00:33:49,458
1418Fuck you, too!
1419
1420318
142100:37:13,705 --> 00:37:15,497
1422Stay away from me.
1423
1424319
142500:37:17,500 --> 00:37:19,501
1426You stay away from me!
1427
1428320
142900:37:28,345 --> 00:37:31,013
1430Jeffrey, you forgot the lunches!
1431
1432321
143300:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,396
1434- Mrs. Wigand?
1435- Jump in quick. Come on.
1436
1437322
143800:37:39,856 --> 00:37:43,108
1439How do you do? I'm Lowell Bergman.
1440We spoke on the phone.
1441
1442323
144300:37:46,071 --> 00:37:48,113
1444- Come here. I want to talk to you.
1445- Good. I want to talk to you.
1446
1447324
144800:37:49,199 --> 00:37:50,532
1449This is my house. In front
1450of my wife, my kids...
1451
1452325
145300:37:50,617 --> 00:37:53,494
1454I did not burn you. I did
1455not give you up to anyone.
1456
1457326
145800:37:54,079 --> 00:37:55,120
1459What business do we have?
1460
1461327
146200:37:55,205 --> 00:37:57,581
1463I'm here to straighten
1464something out with you.
1465
1466328
146700:37:57,666 --> 00:37:58,666
1468Right here, right now.
1469
1470329
147100:37:59,376 --> 00:38:00,376
1472You haven't mentioned my name?
1473
1474330
147500:38:00,460 --> 00:38:01,460
1476You haven't talked to anybody about me?
1477
1478331
147900:38:01,544 --> 00:38:02,503
1480What am I gonna mention your name for...
1481
1482332
148300:38:02,587 --> 00:38:03,587
1484Why are Brown & Williamson...
1485
1486333
148700:38:03,672 --> 00:38:04,880
1488How the hell do I know
1489about Brown & Williamson?
1490
1491334
149200:38:05,048 --> 00:38:08,092
1493It happened just after I talked to you!
1494I do not like coincidences!
1495
1496335
149700:38:08,176 --> 00:38:11,679
1498Well, I don't like paranoid accusations.
1499I'm a journalist.
1500
1501336
150200:38:11,763 --> 00:38:14,723
1503Think! Use your head! How do
1504I operate as a journalist?
1505
1506337
150700:38:14,808 --> 00:38:17,559
1508By screwing the people who could
1509provide me with information
1510
1511338
151200:38:17,644 --> 00:38:19,895
1513before they provided me with it?
1514
1515339
151600:38:21,189 --> 00:38:22,356
1517You came all the way
1518down here to tell me that?
1519
1520340
152100:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,440
1522No, I did not.
1523
1524341
152500:38:23,858 --> 00:38:26,735
1526Big Tobacco is a big story and you
1527got something important to say.
1528
1529342
153000:38:26,820 --> 00:38:27,987
1531I can tell.
1532
1533343
153400:38:28,530 --> 00:38:30,030
1535But yes, I did.
1536
1537344
153800:38:30,115 --> 00:38:34,702
1539I came all the way down here to tell
1540you, story, no story, fuck your story,
1541
1542345
154300:38:37,038 --> 00:38:38,706
1544I don't burn people.
1545
1546346
154700:39:11,031 --> 00:39:13,615
1548Ride with me while I take
1549the girls to school.
1550
1551347
155200:39:41,936 --> 00:39:43,812
1553My little girl has acute asthma.
1554
1555348
155600:39:45,231 --> 00:39:47,816
1557Deborah, my oldest daughter.
1558
1559349
156000:39:47,901 --> 00:39:51,904
1561And I'm unemployed, so I have
1562to protect my medical coverage.
1563
1564350
156500:39:53,406 --> 00:39:54,740
1566So I left them a message this morning.
1567
1568351
156900:39:54,824 --> 00:39:57,367
1570Their expanded
1571confidentiality agreement...
1572
1573352
157400:39:59,579 --> 00:40:02,206
1575I will sign it.
1576
1577353
157800:40:02,290 --> 00:40:04,833
1579- They're afraid of you, aren't they?
1580- They should be.
1581
1582354
158300:40:11,508 --> 00:40:14,593
1584Talk to me outside the zone
1585of your agreement.
1586
1587355
158800:40:14,677 --> 00:40:15,719
1589Like what?
1590
1591356
159200:40:15,804 --> 00:40:18,680
1593Like, where'd you work
1594before Brown & Williamson?
1595
1596357
159700:40:19,349 --> 00:40:23,227
1598Johnson & Johnson, Union
1599Carbide in Japan...
1600
1601358
160200:40:23,311 --> 00:40:26,814
1603I was the general manager and director
1604of new products. I speak Japanese.
1605
1606359
160700:40:26,898 --> 00:40:31,110
1608I was a director of corporate
1609development at Pfizer.
1610
1611360
161200:40:31,194 --> 00:40:32,736
1613All health-related.
1614
1615361
161600:40:36,157 --> 00:40:38,242
1617What else outside the zone?
1618
1619362
162000:40:40,662 --> 00:40:43,247
1621I don't know. Do you think the Knicks
1622are gonna make it to the semifinals?
1623
1624363
162500:40:56,553 --> 00:40:58,178
1626- Just give me an example.
1627- Okay.
1628
1629364
163000:40:58,263 --> 00:41:01,473
1631For example, James Burke.
1632
1633365
163400:41:01,558 --> 00:41:03,517
1635- CEO of Johnson & Johnson.
1636- Yeah.
1637
1638366
163900:41:03,601 --> 00:41:08,480
1640When he found out that some lunatic
1641had put poison in Tylenol bottles.
1642
1643367
164400:41:08,815 --> 00:41:10,315
1645He didn't argue with the FDA,
1646
1647368
164800:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,067
1649he didn't even wait
1650for the FDA to tell him,
1651
1652369
165300:41:12,152 --> 00:41:14,820
1654he just pulled Tylenol
1655off every shelf of every store
1656
1657370
165800:41:14,904 --> 00:41:17,197
1659right across America, instantly.
1660
1661371
166200:41:18,408 --> 00:41:20,868
1663And then he developed a safety cap.
1664
1665372
166600:41:20,952 --> 00:41:25,581
1667Because as a CEO, sure, he's gotta
1668be a great businessman, right?
1669
1670373
167100:41:25,665 --> 00:41:28,000
1672But he's also a man of science.
1673
1674374
167500:41:28,084 --> 00:41:30,335
1676He's not gonna allow his company
1677to put on the shelf
1678
1679375
168000:41:30,420 --> 00:41:33,422
1681a product that might hurt people.
1682
1683376
168400:41:33,506 --> 00:41:35,591
1685Not like the Seven Dwarfs.
1686
1687377
168800:41:35,967 --> 00:41:38,468
1689- Seven Dwarfs?
1690- Seven CEOs of Big Tobacco.
1691
1692378
169300:41:38,553 --> 00:41:40,512
1694They got in front of Congress that time.
1695It was on television...
1696
1697379
169800:41:40,597 --> 00:41:41,889
1699Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1700
1701380
170200:41:41,973 --> 00:41:44,016
1703Swore under oath that they know
1704nothing about addiction...
1705
1706381
170700:41:44,100 --> 00:41:45,434
1708- It was on C-SPAN.
1709- Yeah.
1710
1711382
171200:41:45,518 --> 00:41:50,647
1713Okay, so, here you are. You
1714go to work for tobacco.
1715
1716383
171700:41:50,732 --> 00:41:53,609
1718You come from corporate
1719cultures where research,
1720
1721384
172200:41:53,693 --> 00:41:56,236
1723really creative thinking,
1724these are core values.
1725
1726385
172700:41:56,321 --> 00:41:59,740
1728You go to tobacco. Tobacco
1729is a sales culture,
1730
1731386
173200:41:59,824 --> 00:42:02,910
1733market and sell enormous volume,
1734go to a lot of golf tournaments.
1735
1736387
173700:42:03,203 --> 00:42:05,329
1738The hell with everything else.
1739What are you doing?
1740
1741388
174200:42:05,413 --> 00:42:07,039
1743Why are you working for tobacco
1744in the first place?
1745
1746389
174700:42:07,123 --> 00:42:09,291
1748I can't talk about it.
1749
1750390
175100:42:09,375 --> 00:42:10,876
1752The work I was supposed to do
1753
1754391
175500:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,795
1756might have had some positive
1757effect, I don't know.
1758
1759392
176000:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,714
1761Could have been beneficial.
1762
1763393
176400:42:15,798 --> 00:42:20,344
1765Mostly, I got paid a lot.
1766I took the money.
1767
1768394
176900:42:20,929 --> 00:42:22,221
1770My wife was happy,
1771
1772395
177300:42:22,305 --> 00:42:25,349
1774my kids had good medical, good
1775schools, got a great house.
1776
1777396
177800:42:26,059 --> 00:42:27,559
1779I mean, what the hell is wrong with that?
1780
1781397
178200:42:27,936 --> 00:42:30,229
1783Nothing's wrong with that. That's it.
1784You're making money.
1785
1786398
178700:42:30,313 --> 00:42:32,981
1788You're providing for your family.
1789What could be wrong with that?
1790
1791399
179200:42:36,069 --> 00:42:39,404
1793I always thought of myself as a man
1794of science, that's what's wrong with it.
1795
1796400
179700:42:41,950 --> 00:42:44,993
1798Then you're in a state of conflict, Jeff.
1799
1800401
180100:42:45,078 --> 00:42:47,746
1802Because, look, here's how it lays out.
1803
1804402
180500:42:47,830 --> 00:42:49,831
1806If you've got vital insider stuff,
1807
1808403
180900:42:49,916 --> 00:42:52,584
1810the American people, for their welfare,
1811really do need to know,
1812
1813404
181400:42:52,669 --> 00:42:56,296
1815and you feel impelled to disclose it
1816and violate your agreement in doing so,
1817
1818405
181900:42:56,381 --> 00:42:57,881
1820that's one thing.
1821
1822406
182300:42:57,966 --> 00:43:01,760
1824On the other hand, if you
1825want to honor this agreement,
1826
1827407
182800:43:01,844 --> 00:43:03,428
1829then that's simple.
1830
1831408
183200:43:03,513 --> 00:43:06,473
1833You do so. You say
1834nothing, you do nothing.
1835
1836409
183700:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,685
1838There's only one guy who can
1839figure that out for you,
1840
1841410
184200:43:09,769 --> 00:43:12,396
1843and that's you all by yourself.
1844
1845411
184600:43:18,695 --> 00:43:20,696
1847I gotta go pick up the girls.
1848They only had half a day.
1849
1850412
185100:43:40,383 --> 00:43:43,051
1852I've heard virtually all the...
1853We touched on it.
1854
1855413
185600:43:43,136 --> 00:43:45,345
1857Yes or no, do you believe
1858nicotine is not addictive?
1859
1860414
186100:43:45,430 --> 00:43:48,223
1862Congressman, cigarettes and nicotine
1863
1864415
186500:43:48,308 --> 00:43:51,977
1866clearly do not meet the classic
1867definitions of addiction.
1868
1869416
187000:43:52,061 --> 00:43:53,353
1871There is no intoxication.
1872
1873417
187400:43:53,438 --> 00:43:54,730
1875We'll take that as "no."
1876
1877418
187800:43:54,897 --> 00:43:56,982
1879Again, time is short.
1880
1881419
188200:43:57,066 --> 00:43:59,484
1883I think each of you believe
1884nicotine is not addictive
1885
1886420
188700:43:59,569 --> 00:44:01,945
1888and just would like to have
1889this for the record.
1890
1891421
189200:44:03,072 --> 00:44:05,782
1893I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
1894
1895422
189600:44:06,492 --> 00:44:08,160
1897I, too, believe that nicotine...
1898
1899423
190000:44:08,703 --> 00:44:10,162
1901He referred to this...
1902
1903424
190400:44:10,246 --> 00:44:12,331
1905- The Seven Dwarfs.
1906- What Seven Dwarfs?
1907
1908425
190900:44:12,415 --> 00:44:14,791
1910The seven CEO of Big Tobacco.
1911Referred to this,
1912
1913426
191400:44:14,876 --> 00:44:18,795
1915said they should be afraid of him.
1916I assume afraid of what he could reveal.
1917
1918427
191900:44:19,255 --> 00:44:20,630
1920Now you tell me.
1921
1922428
192300:44:20,715 --> 00:44:23,592
1924What does this guy have to say
1925that threatens these people?
1926
1927429
192800:44:24,427 --> 00:44:26,678
1929Well, it isn't cigarettes
1930are bad for you.
1931
1932430
193300:44:26,763 --> 00:44:28,263
1934- Hardly new news.
1935- No shit.
1936
1937431
193800:44:29,849 --> 00:44:31,099
1939What's this?
1940
1941432
194200:44:31,184 --> 00:44:34,519
1943What that is is tobacco's standard
1944defense.
1945
1946433
194700:44:34,604 --> 00:44:36,396
1948It's the "we don't know" litany.
1949
1950434
195100:44:36,481 --> 00:44:40,525
1952"Addiction? We believe not.
1953Disease? We don't know.
1954
1955435
195600:44:40,610 --> 00:44:43,528
1957"We take a bunch of leaves, we roll
1958them together, you smoke 'em.
1959
1960436
196100:44:43,613 --> 00:44:45,739
1962"After that, you're on your own.
1963We don't know."
1964
1965437
196600:44:46,824 --> 00:44:48,909
1967So, that tells me nothing.
1968
1969438
197000:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,204
1971- Besides, you'll never get what he's got.
1972- Why not?
1973
1974439
197500:44:52,288 --> 00:44:54,456
1976Because of this
1977guy's confidentiality agreement,
1978
1979440
198000:44:54,540 --> 00:44:56,625
1981he's never gonna be able to talk to you.
1982
1983441
198400:44:56,793 --> 00:44:59,544
1985That's not good enough. This
1986guy is the top scientist
1987
1988442
198900:44:59,629 --> 00:45:01,963
1990in the number-three tobacco
1991company in America.
1992
1993443
199400:45:02,048 --> 00:45:03,423
1995He's a corporate officer.
1996
1997444
199800:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,009
1999You never get whistle-blowers
2000from Fortune 500 companies.
2001
2002445
200300:45:06,177 --> 00:45:08,804
2004This guy is the ultimate insider.
2005
2006446
200700:45:08,888 --> 00:45:10,597
2008He's got something to say,
2009he wants to say it.
2010
2011447
201200:45:10,681 --> 00:45:12,808
2013- I want it on 60 Minutes.
2014- Doesn't matter what he wants.
2015
2016448
201700:45:12,892 --> 00:45:13,934
2018Am I missing something here?
2019
2020449
202100:45:14,018 --> 00:45:15,060
2022What do you mean, Mike?
2023
2024450
202500:45:15,144 --> 00:45:17,729
2026He's got a corporate secrecy agreement.
2027
2028451
202900:45:17,814 --> 00:45:19,815
2030Give me a break.
2031
2032452
203300:45:19,899 --> 00:45:23,568
2034This is a public health issue,
2035like an unsafe air frame on a passengerjet
2036
2037453
203800:45:23,653 --> 00:45:26,905
2039or some company dumping
2040cyanide into the East River.
2041
2042454
204300:45:26,989 --> 00:45:29,408
2044Issues like that. He can
2045talk, we can air it.
2046
2047455
204800:45:29,492 --> 00:45:32,828
2049They've got no right to hide
2050behind a corporate agreement. Pass the milk.
2051
2052456
205300:45:33,162 --> 00:45:35,580
2054They don't need the right.
2055They got the money.
2056
2057457
205800:45:35,665 --> 00:45:37,165
2059The unlimited checkbook.
2060
2061458
206200:45:37,250 --> 00:45:41,086
2063That's how Big Tobacco wins
2064every time on everything.
2065
2066459
206700:45:41,170 --> 00:45:42,796
2068They spend you to death.
2069
2070460
207100:45:43,047 --> 00:45:46,425
2072$600 million a year in outside legal.
2073
2074461
207500:45:46,509 --> 00:45:50,429
2076Chadbourne & Parke, Ken
2077Starr's firm, Kirkland and Ellis.
2078
2079462
208000:45:50,847 --> 00:45:56,268
2081Listen, GM and Ford, they get nailed
2082after 11 or 12 pickups blow up, right?
2083
2084463
208500:45:56,352 --> 00:45:59,563
2086- These clowns have never ever...
2087- Not even once.
2088
2089464
209000:45:59,647 --> 00:46:02,399
2091Not even with hundreds
2092of thousands dying each year
2093
2094465
209500:46:02,483 --> 00:46:06,611
2096from an illness related to their product,
2097have ever lost a personal injury lawsuit.
2098
2099466
210000:46:07,071 --> 00:46:10,699
2101On this case, they'll issue gag orders,
2102sue for breach, anticipatory breach,
2103
2104467
210500:46:10,783 --> 00:46:15,036
2106enjoin him, you, us, his pet
2107dog, the dog's veterinarian,
2108
2109468
211000:46:15,329 --> 00:46:17,372
2111tie 'em up in litigation
2112for 10 or 15 years.
2113
2114469
211500:46:17,457 --> 00:46:20,041
2116I'm telling you, they bat
2117a thousand every time.
2118
2119470
212000:46:20,126 --> 00:46:22,335
2121He knows that. That's why
2122he's not gonna talk to you.
2123
2124471
212500:46:29,552 --> 00:46:33,054
2126Okay, let's look through the looking
2127glass the other way.
2128
2129472
213000:46:33,598 --> 00:46:34,848
2131What do you mean?
2132
2133473
213400:46:36,142 --> 00:46:38,226
2135We got a guy who wants
2136to talk, but he's constrained.
2137
2138474
213900:46:38,728 --> 00:46:42,230
2140- What if he were compelled to talk?
2141- Oh, torture. Great ratings.
2142
2143475
214400:46:42,315 --> 00:46:43,982
2145What do you mean, "compelled"?
2146
2147476
214800:46:44,066 --> 00:46:47,068
2149I mean compelled by a Justice Department.
2150
2151477
215200:46:47,361 --> 00:46:49,446
2153State courts. Be a witness.
2154
2155478
215600:46:49,530 --> 00:46:52,741
2157That would cut through any confidentiality
2158agreement, wouldn't it?
2159
2160479
216100:46:52,909 --> 00:46:54,826
2162- What does that do?
2163- What do you mean, what does it do?
2164
2165480
216600:46:54,911 --> 00:46:58,079
2167What I mean is like, how does it cut
2168through the confidentiality agreement?
2169
2170481
217100:46:58,247 --> 00:47:01,708
2172Because he has to reveal
2173it in a court of law.
2174
2175482
217600:47:01,792 --> 00:47:04,336
2177It's on record. It's out.
2178It's no secret anymore.
2179
2180483
218100:47:04,420 --> 00:47:08,006
2182So how can they restrain his speech or retaliate?
2183It's out in the world.
2184
2185484
218600:47:08,090 --> 00:47:10,759
2187If you could engineer it into the court
2188record, you might have something.
2189
2190485
219100:47:11,552 --> 00:47:12,511
2192They would have a hell of a time
2193
2194486
219500:47:12,595 --> 00:47:13,845
2196trying to restrain his speech
2197then, wouldn't they?
2198
2199487
220000:47:13,930 --> 00:47:15,639
2201Yeah, but what venue?
2202
2203488
220400:47:15,723 --> 00:47:17,766
2205And where does he get... Does
2206he have killer attorneys?
2207
2208489
220900:47:18,935 --> 00:47:20,852
2210I don't think he's got any attorneys.
2211
2212490
221300:47:20,937 --> 00:47:24,481
2214He's gonna need attorneys who aren't
2215afraid of risking years of litigation
2216
2217491
221800:47:24,565 --> 00:47:28,527
2219and millions of dollars
2220of their own dough in legal costs.
2221
2222492
222300:47:29,362 --> 00:47:31,780
2224What do you say, Mike? What do you think?
2225
2226493
222700:47:33,991 --> 00:47:36,201
2228Even if he gets the defense team,
2229
2230494
223100:47:40,915 --> 00:47:42,499
2232will he go for it?
2233
2234495
223500:47:49,674 --> 00:47:52,467
2236You're awfully overqualified, Dr. Wigand.
2237
2238496
223900:47:59,350 --> 00:48:01,810
2240I'm trying to start a new career.
2241
2242497
224300:48:03,813 --> 00:48:06,481
2244I believe I could be a good teacher.
2245
2246498
224700:48:10,736 --> 00:48:12,195
2248Let me give it some thought.
2249
2250499
225100:48:17,243 --> 00:48:19,327
2252And not a lot of companies
2253in the healthcare field
2254
2255500
225600:48:19,412 --> 00:48:21,955
2257hire ex-tobacco scientists.
2258
2259501
226000:48:55,740 --> 00:48:57,365
2261That's it.
2262
2263502
226400:49:06,292 --> 00:49:08,543
2265It's where our babies were born.
2266
2267503
226800:49:12,798 --> 00:49:15,759
2269Debbie took her first
2270steps right there on...
2271
2272504
227300:49:17,386 --> 00:49:18,970
2274In the grass.
2275
2276505
227700:49:22,391 --> 00:49:25,226
2278- I didn't plan on this.
2279- Hey, hey, hey.
2280
2281506
228200:49:26,062 --> 00:49:27,896
2283Come on. Come on.
2284
2285507
228600:49:32,234 --> 00:49:36,071
2287We can make this work for us, okay?
2288
2289508
229000:49:36,155 --> 00:49:38,198
2291It's just, it's not...
2292
2293509
229400:49:38,282 --> 00:49:41,326
2295It's a smaller scale.
2296
2297510
229800:49:41,410 --> 00:49:46,831
2299Simpler, easier, more time.
2300
2301511
230200:49:46,916 --> 00:49:51,711
2303More time together, more
2304time with the kids.
2305
2306512
230700:49:51,796 --> 00:49:54,631
2308More time for us, okay? It's just...
2309
2310513
231100:49:57,510 --> 00:50:01,346
2312Can you imagine me coming
2313home from some job
2314
2315514
231600:50:01,430 --> 00:50:04,057
2317feeling good at the end of the day?
2318
2319515
232000:50:06,185 --> 00:50:11,523
2321This is gonna be better.
2322
2323516
232400:50:31,460 --> 00:50:34,254
2325Love yourhome with beautiful
2326Broyhill furniture.
2327
2328517
232900:50:36,465 --> 00:50:38,508
2330You'II find incredible sale prices
2331
2332518
233300:50:38,592 --> 00:50:40,719
2334throughout Smith's Broyhill
2335showcase gallery,
2336
2337519
233800:50:40,803 --> 00:50:44,055
2339with extra savings on every style
2340for every room in your home.
2341
2342520
234300:50:51,605 --> 00:50:55,442
2344If you've been putting
2345off decorating that special room,
2346
2347521
234800:50:55,526 --> 00:50:59,487
2349now's the time to act
2350during the love-your-home sale at Smith's.
2351
2352522
235300:51:00,531 --> 00:51:02,741
2354- Back to...
2355- Welcome back.
2356
2357523
235800:51:18,299 --> 00:51:20,717
2359Hey, baby. What's wrong?
2360
2361524
236200:51:20,801 --> 00:51:22,927
2363Who's that outside, Daddy?
2364
2365525
236600:51:25,139 --> 00:51:26,806
2367Did you see somebody
2368or did you hear them?
2369
2370526
237100:51:26,891 --> 00:51:28,224
2372I heard him.
2373
2374527
237500:51:29,810 --> 00:51:32,061
2376- Where?
2377- In the backyard.
2378
2379528
238000:51:49,038 --> 00:51:52,582
2381Sit at Daddy's desk, okay? Why
2382don't you sit up at the desk.
2383
2384529
238500:51:52,666 --> 00:51:53,958
2386All right?
2387
2388530
238900:51:54,043 --> 00:51:57,045
2390Get out some paper, and draw
2391me a picture, okay?
2392
2393531
239400:52:03,385 --> 00:52:07,764
2395What are you gonna draw me, baby?
2396An animal? Something like that?
2397
2398532
239900:52:08,474 --> 00:52:11,059
2400You stay down here until Daddy
2401gets back, all right, Barbara?
2402
2403533
240400:52:11,143 --> 00:52:12,352
2405You stay down here.
2406
2407534
240800:53:10,452 --> 00:53:12,787
2409You almost got your damn head blown off.
2410
2411535
241200:53:52,453 --> 00:53:54,078
2413Daddy!
2414
2415536
241600:53:55,581 --> 00:53:59,292
2417It was just a raccoon, baby. Nothin'.
2418
2419537
242000:53:59,376 --> 00:54:01,920
2421They're nocturnal. You
2422know what that means?
2423
2424538
242500:54:02,004 --> 00:54:04,464
2426That means that they only come
2427out at nighttime.
2428
2429539
243000:54:17,978 --> 00:54:21,189
2431- Yeah.
2432- Lowell. Jeffrey Wigand.
2433
2434540
243500:54:22,191 --> 00:54:24,442
2436Is it too late?
2437
2438541
243900:54:25,152 --> 00:54:27,028
2440No, no, it's okay. I...
2441
2442542
244300:54:27,363 --> 00:54:31,199
2444- How's the new place?
2445- The new place? New.
2446
2447543
244800:54:31,700 --> 00:54:32,909
2449You okay?
2450
2451544
245200:54:33,535 --> 00:54:35,119
2453Sure.
2454
2455545
245600:54:35,204 --> 00:54:38,665
2457I was thinking of calling
2458you tomorrow anyway.
2459
2460546
246100:54:39,500 --> 00:54:42,085
2462How's your kids handling the new house?
2463
2464547
246500:54:42,169 --> 00:54:43,169
2466Good.
2467
2468548
246900:54:43,671 --> 00:54:46,339
2470- You got kids?
2471- We have a couple.
2472
2473549
247400:54:46,757 --> 00:54:50,510
2475One's hers, one's mine. Everybody
2476uses a different name.
2477
2478550
247900:54:50,594 --> 00:54:52,303
2480Modern marriage.
2481
2482551
248300:54:53,514 --> 00:54:54,847
2484How's Liane?
2485
2486552
248700:54:57,059 --> 00:54:58,685
2488She's okay.
2489
2490553
249100:55:00,104 --> 00:55:01,771
2492Hold on a minute.
2493
2494554
249500:55:08,737 --> 00:55:12,824
2496Lowell, somebody may be following me.
2497I don't know.
2498
2499555
250000:55:13,158 --> 00:55:14,617
2501They came on the property.
2502
2503556
250400:55:14,702 --> 00:55:17,704
2505What do you mean, following you?
2506Did you call the police?
2507
2508557
250900:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,581
2510I don't wanna be paranoid. I mean...
2511
2512558
251300:55:21,083 --> 00:55:23,084
2514Maybe it's a game. Some
2515kind of mind game.
2516
2517559
251800:55:23,168 --> 00:55:24,419
2519What do you really think?
2520
2521560
252200:55:24,670 --> 00:55:26,671
2523I don't know what the fuck
2524I really think.
2525
2526561
252700:55:26,755 --> 00:55:30,174
2528Are they doing it? Is
2529some crank doing it?
2530
2531562
253200:55:30,259 --> 00:55:31,759
2533Are they doing it to make
2534me feel paranoid?
2535
2536563
253700:55:32,011 --> 00:55:34,637
2538Are they doing it for real and don't
2539give a shit what I think? I don't know.
2540
2541564
254200:55:34,972 --> 00:55:36,097
2543I don't fuckin' know.
2544
2545565
254600:55:36,223 --> 00:55:39,475
2547Jeffrey, describe for me
2548in detail what happened.
2549
2550566
255100:55:40,060 --> 00:55:41,853
2552Well...
2553
2554567
255500:55:41,937 --> 00:55:45,481
2556No. Look, I mean, there was a footprint.
2557Forget it.
2558
2559568
256000:55:45,774 --> 00:55:49,110
2561It's probably not important at all.
2562You know, I got a job now.
2563
2564569
256500:55:49,445 --> 00:55:52,572
2566I'm teaching high school.
2567Japanese and chemistry.
2568
2569570
257000:55:55,868 --> 00:55:58,077
2571So what were you calling about?
2572
2573571
257400:55:58,162 --> 00:55:59,454
2575You called me.
2576
2577572
257800:55:59,538 --> 00:56:01,247
2579No, you said you were
2580gonna call me tomorrow.
2581
2582573
258300:56:01,331 --> 00:56:03,750
2584- So, what about?
2585- Oh, yes, yes, yes. I did.
2586
2587574
258800:56:03,834 --> 00:56:05,501
2589I wanted to talk to you.
2590I wanted to hook up with you,
2591
2592575
259300:56:05,586 --> 00:56:08,713
2594talk to you about what we were
2595talking about in your car.
2596
2597576
259800:56:12,051 --> 00:56:13,134
2599Okay.
2600
2601577
260200:56:13,802 --> 00:56:16,888
2603It makes you feel good,
2604putting what you know to use?
2605
2606578
260700:56:19,475 --> 00:56:22,226
2608- How'd you know that, Lowell?
2609- It's obvious, isn't it?
2610
2611579
261200:56:25,689 --> 00:56:27,648
2613Hello? Are you there?
2614
2615580
261600:56:28,025 --> 00:56:29,567
2617Yeah.
2618
2619581
262000:56:30,652 --> 00:56:32,695
2621Look...
2622
2623582
262400:56:33,155 --> 00:56:36,282
2625Thanks for talking. I'm sorry I woke you up.
2626I didn't know...
2627
2628583
262900:56:36,992 --> 00:56:38,576
2630It's okay.
2631
2632584
263300:56:48,170 --> 00:56:49,587
2634Lowell.
2635
2636585
263700:56:52,257 --> 00:56:53,341
2638Who is this?
2639
2640586
264100:56:54,259 --> 00:56:56,094
2642Do not call here! Do not...
2643
2644587
264500:57:20,869 --> 00:57:23,496
2646- What are you gonna get us?
2647- Tempura.
2648
2649588
265000:57:29,044 --> 00:57:31,337
2651The Internet said you did
2652graduate work at Wisconsin,
2653
2654589
265500:57:31,421 --> 00:57:35,383
2656then went to UC La Jolla
2657with Professor Herbert? Marcus...
2658
2659590
266000:57:35,467 --> 00:57:37,135
2661- Marcuse.
2662- Yeah.
2663
2664591
266500:57:37,219 --> 00:57:39,679
2666He was my mentor.
2667
2668592
266900:57:39,763 --> 00:57:43,141
2670He had a major influence
2671on the New Left in the late '60s.
2672
2673593
267400:57:43,225 --> 00:57:45,935
2675- And on me, personally.
2676- Next to your father?
2677
2678594
267900:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,022
2680My father? What the hell's that got
2681to do with my father?
2682
2683595
268400:57:52,317 --> 00:57:54,485
2685I, uh...
2686
2687596
268800:57:54,570 --> 00:57:58,406
2689Is that why you became a journalist?
2690Then you get to ask all the questions?
2691
2692597
269300:57:58,866 --> 00:58:00,324
2694You charge by the hour?
2695
2696598
269700:58:02,077 --> 00:58:04,662
2698My father was a mechanical engineer.
2699
2700599
270100:58:04,746 --> 00:58:07,039
2702Most ingenious man I ever knew.
2703
2704600
270500:58:07,124 --> 00:58:09,000
2706My father left us when
2707I was five-years-old.
2708
2709601
271000:58:09,084 --> 00:58:10,751
2711He was not the most ingenious
2712man I ever knew.
2713
2714602
271500:58:10,836 --> 00:58:12,879
2716Let's get back to Brown & Williamson.
2717
2718603
271900:58:13,922 --> 00:58:15,548
2720If you decide to go on 60 Minutes,
2721
2722604
272300:58:16,341 --> 00:58:18,801
2724I gotta know everything
2725about why you were fired.
2726
2727605
272800:58:19,511 --> 00:58:20,553
2729Why?
2730
2731606
273200:58:21,555 --> 00:58:23,347
2733They're gonna dig
2734up stuff from your past,
2735
2736607
273700:58:23,432 --> 00:58:25,725
2738they're gonna throw it at you. I gotta
2739know what they're gonna throw.
2740
2741608
274200:58:26,727 --> 00:58:28,227
2743You understand?
2744
2745609
274600:58:31,607 --> 00:58:33,608
2747I drink.
2748
2749610
275000:58:33,692 --> 00:58:35,693
2751Couple of occasions,
2752more than I should have.
2753
2754611
275500:58:35,777 --> 00:58:37,069
2756Mmm-hmm.
2757
2758612
275900:58:39,740 --> 00:58:43,075
2760I was cited for shoplifting
2761once, but it was a mistake.
2762
2763613
276400:58:46,205 --> 00:58:47,538
2765Pushed Liane one time.
2766
2767614
276800:58:47,623 --> 00:58:48,998
2769We were both stressed
2770out because of the pressure.
2771
2772615
277300:58:49,082 --> 00:58:51,584
2774She went to her mother's.
2775
2776616
277700:58:51,668 --> 00:58:54,378
2778I got fired
2779
2780617
278100:58:55,088 --> 00:58:57,465
2782because when I get angry, I have
2783difficulty censoring myself,
2784
2785618
278600:58:57,549 --> 00:59:00,134
2787and I don't like to be pushed around.
2788
2789619
279000:59:00,719 --> 00:59:03,429
2791I'm not pushing you around.
2792I'm asking you questions.
2793
2794620
279500:59:06,516 --> 00:59:09,560
2796I'm just a commodity to you, aren't I?
2797
2798621
279900:59:09,645 --> 00:59:11,062
2800I could be anything, right?
2801
2802622
280300:59:11,146 --> 00:59:12,897
2804Anything worth putting
2805on between commercials.
2806
2807623
280800:59:12,981 --> 00:59:14,982
2809To a network, probably
2810we're all commodities.
2811
2812624
281300:59:15,067 --> 00:59:17,318
2814To me, you're not a commodity.
2815What you are is important.
2816
2817625
281800:59:19,655 --> 00:59:22,823
2819You go public, and 30 million people
2820hear what you gotta say,
2821
2822626
282300:59:22,908 --> 00:59:26,494
2824nothing, I mean nothing,
2825will ever be the same again.
2826
2827627
282800:59:26,578 --> 00:59:27,662
2829You believe that?
2830
2831628
283200:59:27,746 --> 00:59:29,121
2833- No.
2834- You should.
2835
2836629
283700:59:29,915 --> 00:59:30,915
2838Because when you're done,
2839
2840630
284100:59:30,999 --> 00:59:34,710
2842the judgment is gonna go down in the court
2843of public opinion, my friend.
2844
2845631
284600:59:36,046 --> 00:59:37,964
2847And that's the power you have.
2848
2849632
285000:59:39,258 --> 00:59:42,510
2851- You believe that?
2852- I believe that? Yes, I believe that.
2853
2854633
285500:59:42,844 --> 00:59:44,762
2856You believe that because you
2857get information out to people,
2858
2859634
286000:59:44,846 --> 00:59:46,389
2861- something happens?
2862- Yes.
2863
2864635
286500:59:46,515 --> 00:59:48,641
2866Maybe that's just what you've been telling
2867yourself all these years
2868
2869636
287000:59:48,725 --> 00:59:50,142
2871to justify having a good job.
2872
2873637
287400:59:51,520 --> 00:59:53,020
2875Having status.
2876
2877638
287800:59:53,647 --> 00:59:55,147
2879Maybe for the audience,
2880it's just voyeurism.
2881
2882639
288300:59:55,232 --> 00:59:56,357
2884Something to do on a Sunday night.
2885
2886640
288700:59:56,525 --> 00:59:58,651
2888Maybe it won't change a fuckin' thing,
2889
2890641
289100:59:58,735 --> 01:00:01,153
2892and people like myself and my family
2893
2894642
289501:00:01,238 --> 01:00:05,116
2896are left hung out to dry,
2897used up, broke, alone.
2898
2899643
290001:00:05,659 --> 01:00:08,286
2901Are you talking to me, or did somebody
2902else just walk in here? I never...
2903
2904644
290501:00:10,247 --> 01:00:14,208
2906Don't evade a choice you gotta
2907make by questioning my reputation
2908
2909645
291001:00:14,293 --> 01:00:16,544
2911or 60 Minutes with this cheap skepticism.
2912
2913646
291401:00:16,628 --> 01:00:19,797
2915I have to put my family's welfare
2916on the line here, my friend.
2917
2918647
291901:00:19,881 --> 01:00:21,257
2920What are you putting up?
2921You're putting up words.
2922
2923648
292401:00:21,341 --> 01:00:22,341
2925"Words."
2926
2927649
292801:00:22,926 --> 01:00:25,636
2929While you've been dicking around some fucking
2930company golf tournaments,
2931
2932650
293301:00:25,721 --> 01:00:30,057
2934I've been out in the world givin'
2935my word and backing it up with action.
2936
2937651
293801:00:35,355 --> 01:00:38,024
2939Now, are you gonna go
2940and do this thing or not?
2941
2942652
294301:00:40,694 --> 01:00:42,987
2944I said I'd call the kids
2945before they went to bed.
2946
2947653
294801:00:56,626 --> 01:00:57,877
2949Stringer was supposed to be shooting.
2950
2951654
295201:00:57,961 --> 01:00:59,795
2953B-roll on street cops in New Orleans.
2954
2955655
295601:00:59,880 --> 01:01:01,130
2957What's with all the horses?
2958
2959656
296001:01:01,214 --> 01:01:03,174
2961Camera guy's got a thing
2962about mounted police.
2963
2964657
296501:01:03,550 --> 01:01:06,969
2966Don't any of these guys
2967ride in cars? Walk?
2968
2969658
297001:01:07,137 --> 01:01:09,096
2971- How long are these things?
2972- What was he saying?
2973
2974659
297501:01:09,181 --> 01:01:11,640
2976Hello. Yes, I'm trying
2977to reach Mr. Richard Scruggs.
2978
2979660
298001:01:12,851 --> 01:01:14,310
2981This is Richard Scruggs.
2982
2983661
298401:01:14,811 --> 01:01:16,354
2985Can you hold on a second, please?
2986
2987662
298801:01:16,438 --> 01:01:18,356
2989Lowell, got him on the phone.
2990
2991663
299201:01:22,319 --> 01:01:23,361
2993Hello, I'm Lowell Bergman.
2994
2995664
299601:01:23,653 --> 01:01:29,325
2997Hold on. Mobile Approach, this
2998is Leo-November-643. Over.
2999
3000665
300101:01:31,787 --> 01:01:36,207
3002Request a flight level of 220
3003on a heading of 284 degrees. Over.
3004
3005666
300601:01:37,959 --> 01:01:39,168
3007Mr. Bergman?
3008
3009667
301001:01:39,628 --> 01:01:41,962
3011Yes, I'm right here. Could you
3012call me back on a hard line?
3013
3014668
301501:01:42,297 --> 01:01:43,339
3016All right.
3017
3018669
301901:01:43,465 --> 01:01:47,385
3020Area code 212-555-0199.
3021
3022670
302301:01:47,469 --> 01:01:48,636
3024I'll call you then.
3025
3026671
302701:01:56,978 --> 01:01:58,396
3028- What do we do with that?
3029- I don't know.
3030
3031672
303201:02:00,232 --> 01:02:01,816
3033Richard Scruggs.
3034
3035673
303601:02:01,900 --> 01:02:05,152
3037You filed a lawsuit against tobacco
3038on behalf of the State of Mississippi.
3039
3040674
304101:02:05,529 --> 01:02:07,405
3042- Did you not?
3043- That's right.
3044
3045675
304601:02:07,489 --> 01:02:08,739
3047I'm working with someone now
3048
3049676
305001:02:08,824 --> 01:02:12,034
3051who's the former head of research
3052at Brown & Williamson.
3053
3054677
305501:02:12,119 --> 01:02:14,328
3056Former corporate officer there.
3057
3058678
305901:02:14,830 --> 01:02:16,664
3060What's your interest
3061in this, Mr. Bergman?
3062
3063679
306401:02:17,624 --> 01:02:19,375
3065Well, he may tape an interview with us,
3066
3067680
306801:02:19,459 --> 01:02:22,795
3069and we believe if his testimony
3070showed up in a court record first,
3071
3072681
307301:02:23,046 --> 01:02:24,797
3074it would free him
3075up from his confidentiality agreement
3076
3077682
307801:02:24,881 --> 01:02:26,715
3079and give him some protection.
3080
3081683
308201:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,718
3083It could work. If it's public
3084record, it's public record.
3085
3086684
308701:02:29,803 --> 01:02:32,096
3088Yeah, and he's gonna need
3089legal representation.
3090
3091685
309201:02:32,180 --> 01:02:33,889
3093He sure as hell will.
3094
3095686
309601:02:35,016 --> 01:02:36,934
3097Has he decided to go public?
3098
3099687
310001:02:37,227 --> 01:02:40,521
3101Because let me tell ya, we been doin'
3102this for three years now,
3103
3104688
310501:02:40,605 --> 01:02:42,314
3106and we've worked with a lot
3107of corporate cases
3108
3109689
311001:02:42,399 --> 01:02:43,399
3111involving whistle-blowers.
3112
3113690
311401:02:43,817 --> 01:02:47,069
3115So we know Big Tobacco will do
3116everything in their power to stop him.
3117
3118691
311901:02:47,737 --> 01:02:50,239
3120So is your man truly committed?
3121
3122692
312301:02:50,323 --> 01:02:53,451
3124Well, actually, no. He's on the fence.
3125That's the point.
3126
3127693
312801:02:56,288 --> 01:02:59,790
3129Well, we'd certainly be interested
3130in making his acquaintance.
3131
3132694
313301:02:59,875 --> 01:03:01,750
3134But without knowing what he's gonna do...
3135
3136695
313701:03:02,586 --> 01:03:05,129
3138Would you want him to call
3139you, or you wanna call him?
3140
3141696
314201:03:05,213 --> 01:03:06,297
3143How do you wanna do it?
3144
3145697
314601:03:06,381 --> 01:03:08,632
3147It would be better if he called us.
3148
3149698
315001:03:08,717 --> 01:03:10,676
3151- Yeah. Okay.
3152- AII right?
3153
3154699
315501:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,887
3156Okay, thank you. Shit.
3157
3158700
315901:03:17,476 --> 01:03:19,602
3160We need cops on the streets.
3161We don't need them on horses.
3162
3163701
316401:03:19,769 --> 01:03:21,520
3165- I don't know what he was thinking.
3166- For God's sake.
3167
3168702
316901:03:21,605 --> 01:03:23,397
3170- This guy got a horse fetish?
3171- All right, all right.
3172
3173703
317401:03:23,648 --> 01:03:25,816
3175Get me to New Orleans this afternoon.
3176
3177704
317801:03:26,818 --> 01:03:29,069
3179I'll shoot the fucking thing myself!
3180
3181705
318201:03:29,738 --> 01:03:31,655
3183- Have a good one.
3184- All right.
3185
3186706
318701:03:53,136 --> 01:03:54,303
3188What are you cooking?
3189
3190707
319101:03:54,554 --> 01:03:57,890
3192- I'm cooking pasta primavera.
3193- Oh, I love that stuff.
3194
3195708
319601:04:02,062 --> 01:04:04,438
3197I'm going to have to go downstairs.
3198
3199709
320001:04:36,054 --> 01:04:37,346
3201Jeffrey!
3202
3203710
320401:04:59,828 --> 01:05:04,623
3205Jeffrey! Jeffrey!
3206
3207711
320801:05:33,903 --> 01:05:35,029
3209What happened?
3210
3211712
321201:05:35,113 --> 01:05:37,448
3213Dispatcher received a call
3214of shots fired in the area.
3215
3216713
321701:05:37,532 --> 01:05:42,202
3218Uniforms arrived on the scene, found
3219this white male subject shot to death.
3220
3221714
322201:05:42,412 --> 01:05:44,121
3223Was it gang-related?
3224
3225715
322601:05:44,205 --> 01:05:47,499
3227There's no indication as far
3228as a tag or an advertisement.
3229
3230716
323101:05:50,629 --> 01:05:52,963
3232Yeah.
3233
3234717
323501:05:54,507 --> 01:05:57,217
3236They're terrorizing us. Death threats.
3237My family, my kids.
3238
3239718
324001:05:57,844 --> 01:05:59,011
3241What are you talking about?
3242
3243719
324401:05:59,095 --> 01:06:00,721
3245Someone put a bullet in my mailbox.
3246
3247720
324801:06:01,139 --> 01:06:04,892
3249- Jeff, call the FBI right away.
3250- They do this with impunity.
3251
3252721
325301:06:05,185 --> 01:06:06,185
3254Jeff...
3255
3256722
325701:06:06,269 --> 01:06:07,686
3258They get to go home at night.
3259
3260723
326101:06:07,771 --> 01:06:10,439
3262What does it cost these people
3263to do this to us? Nothing!
3264
3265724
326601:06:12,233 --> 01:06:14,902
3267My girls are crying. So fuck them.
3268
3269725
327001:06:15,070 --> 01:06:17,154
3271- I wanna tape. I'm done...
3272- I heard you.
3273
3274726
327501:06:17,238 --> 01:06:19,406
3276I gotta arrange for a legal
3277defense first.
3278
3279727
328001:06:19,908 --> 01:06:23,035
3281I gotta get you to testify
3282in court, get it on public record.
3283
3284728
328501:06:23,119 --> 01:06:25,871
3286Then hold it off the air until you got
3287that, but I wanna go to New York,
3288
3289729
329001:06:25,955 --> 01:06:28,374
3291and I wanna go on the record right now.
3292
3293730
329401:06:29,584 --> 01:06:31,001
3295Good. But, Jeff...
3296
3297731
329801:06:31,252 --> 01:06:33,003
3299I'll call them, Lowell.
3300
3301732
330201:06:38,385 --> 01:06:39,718
3303Did you handle the round, Mr. Wigand?
3304
3305733
330601:06:42,222 --> 01:06:43,472
3307Yes, I'm afraid I did.
3308
3309734
331001:06:44,265 --> 01:06:46,225
3311We won't be able to lift usable prints.
3312
3313735
331401:06:48,603 --> 01:06:49,853
3315Do you own a gun, Mr. Wigand?
3316
3317736
331801:06:52,273 --> 01:06:54,483
3319- A gun? Yes.
3320- What caliber is your gun?
3321
3322737
332301:06:56,778 --> 01:06:57,903
3324What caliber is my gun?
3325
3326738
332701:06:58,405 --> 01:07:00,864
3328Yes, sir. What caliber is your gun?
3329
3330739
333101:07:01,700 --> 01:07:03,951
3332What does that have to do
3333with the price of tea in China?
3334
3335740
333601:07:07,038 --> 01:07:10,124
3337You think I put the bullet
3338in the mailbox myself?
3339
3340741
334101:07:11,167 --> 01:07:13,127
3342If we could take a look, Mr. Wigand.
3343
3344742
334501:07:26,891 --> 01:07:28,100
3346Why do you keep this gun?
3347
3348743
334901:07:28,184 --> 01:07:32,146
3350I don't think it's unconstitutional
3351yet to own a gun. I'm a target shooter.
3352
3353744
335401:07:32,230 --> 01:07:35,607
3355That bullet was for a .38 caliber.
3356Do you own a .38?
3357
3358745
335901:07:35,692 --> 01:07:38,444
3360Yes, I do. A .38 Target
3361Master in my gun safe downstairs.
3362
3363746
336401:07:38,528 --> 01:07:42,114
3365A .45 Gold Cup, a .22 target pistol.
3366So what?
3367
3368747
336901:07:43,658 --> 01:07:46,493
3370Do you have a history of emotional
3371problems, Mr. Wigand?
3372
3373748
337401:07:46,870 --> 01:07:48,704
3375Yeah. Yes, I do.
3376
3377749
337801:07:48,788 --> 01:07:52,499
3379Yes, I get extremely emotional when
3380assholes put bullets in my mailbox.
3381
3382750
338301:07:53,042 --> 01:07:56,420
3384I didn't tell you that so you could
3385pick it up and take it away.
3386
3387751
338801:07:56,504 --> 01:07:57,671
3389Jeffrey!
3390
3391752
339201:07:57,964 --> 01:07:59,047
3393What's going on?
3394
3395753
339601:07:59,799 --> 01:08:01,717
3397I told them you had an e-mail
3398death threat that told you
3399
3400754
340101:08:01,801 --> 01:08:03,302
3402if you didn't shut the "F" up,
3403they were gonna kill you.
3404
3405755
340601:08:03,386 --> 01:08:04,845
3407You can't take that.
3408It's personal property.
3409
3410756
341101:08:05,263 --> 01:08:08,390
3412My personal correspondence,
3413letters to my brother, my will.
3414
3415757
341601:08:21,196 --> 01:08:22,529
3417You all right?
3418
3419758
342001:08:32,457 --> 01:08:34,792
3421That computer has every single...
3422
3423759
342401:08:35,960 --> 01:08:37,711
3425You all right, Mr. Wigand?
3426
3427760
342801:08:37,921 --> 01:08:40,547
3429We need to take a look
3430at your gun safe, Mr. Wigand.
3431
3432761
343301:08:57,941 --> 01:09:02,361
3434I'm telling you your agents
3435in that office are acting improperly.
3436
3437762
343801:09:02,445 --> 01:09:03,695
3439Now who are they trying to protect?
3440
3441763
344201:09:04,072 --> 01:09:05,656
3443Let me tell you something, Lowell.
3444Look, look.
3445
3446764
344701:09:05,740 --> 01:09:08,158
3448You're talking about two agents
3449in a regional office in Louisville.
3450
3451765
345201:09:08,243 --> 01:09:12,246
3453I got the goddamned Unabomber
3454threatening to blow up LAX.
3455
3456766
345701:09:12,622 --> 01:09:15,624
3458I gotta move 45 agents
3459from all over the country into LA.
3460
3461767
346201:09:16,000 --> 01:09:17,626
3463All right? When I get a chance,
3464I'll give it a look.
3465
3466768
346701:09:17,710 --> 01:09:20,671
3468You better take a good look
3469because I'm getting two things.
3470
3471769
347201:09:20,755 --> 01:09:23,048
3473Pissed off and curious!
3474
3475770
347601:09:23,132 --> 01:09:27,636
3477Any of these guys been offered jobs
3478in corporate security after they retire?
3479
3480771
348101:09:27,846 --> 01:09:31,306
3482Either one of those guys got
3483ex-agent pals already in those jobs?
3484
3485772
348601:09:31,391 --> 01:09:34,685
3487Like, for instance, their ex-supervisor
3488who's already at Brown & Williamson
3489
3490773
349101:09:34,769 --> 01:09:36,144
3492as we fuckin' speak!
3493
3494774
349501:09:36,688 --> 01:09:37,771
3496I'll give it a look.
3497
3498775
349901:09:37,981 --> 01:09:39,940
3500- You're getting my drift?
3501- I'II give it a look.
3502
3503776
350401:09:42,110 --> 01:09:43,902
3505So is everything okay?
3506
3507777
350801:09:45,989 --> 01:09:48,282
3509- How are the rooms? Comfortable?
3510- Yes, very.
3511
3512778
351301:09:49,242 --> 01:09:52,202
3514Do you know, I enjoy your work so much.
3515
3516779
351701:09:52,287 --> 01:09:55,831
3518When you're talkin' to somebody,
3519I always feel like I'm right there.
3520
3521780
352201:09:56,040 --> 01:09:57,958
3523Thank you for saying that.
3524
3525781
352601:09:58,835 --> 01:10:00,210
3527Do you think we could
3528talk about the taping?
3529
3530782
353101:10:00,837 --> 01:10:02,087
3532Tomorrow's taping?
3533
3534783
353501:10:02,171 --> 01:10:04,673
3536Just so we can get it
3537out of the way and order.
3538
3539784
354001:10:05,258 --> 01:10:08,552
3541Yeah, well, questions will go
3542towards what work you did there,
3543
3544785
354501:10:08,636 --> 01:10:11,138
3546- why you were fired and other...
3547- Taping?
3548
3549786
355001:10:16,102 --> 01:10:17,227
3551What are you taping?
3552
3553787
355401:10:18,479 --> 01:10:20,147
3555I'm doin' an interview.
3556
3557788
355801:10:23,276 --> 01:10:24,902
3559An interview?
3560
3561789
356201:10:30,909 --> 01:10:35,162
3563Do you know what they will do to us?
3564I thought we...
3565
3566790
356701:10:39,542 --> 01:10:40,584
3568I'm sorry.
3569
3570791
357101:10:41,669 --> 01:10:43,629
3572Liane, this is a preliminary...
3573
3574792
357501:10:53,139 --> 01:10:55,015
3576You didn't tell her we were taping?
3577
3578793
357901:10:56,434 --> 01:10:58,268
3580What did she think
3581she was coming to New York for?
3582
3583794
358401:11:00,313 --> 01:11:03,690
3585Talk about it, think about it.
3586I had a plan to ease her into it,
3587
3588795
358901:11:03,775 --> 01:11:05,859
3590but I really don't know how to do that.
3591
3592796
359301:11:12,700 --> 01:11:14,201
3594Oh, man.
3595
3596797
359701:11:19,040 --> 01:11:20,666
3598Who are these people?
3599
3600798
360101:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,713
3602Ordinary people under extraordinary
3603pressure, Mike.
3604
3605799
360601:11:28,716 --> 01:11:31,385
3607What the hell you expect,
3608grace and consistency?
3609
3610800
361101:12:00,164 --> 01:12:03,750
3612Five, four, three, two...
3613
3614801
361501:12:05,294 --> 01:12:09,006
3616You heard Mr. Sandefur
3617say before Congress
3618
3619802
362001:12:09,090 --> 01:12:12,342
3621that he believed nicotine
3622was not addictive.
3623
3624803
362501:12:12,427 --> 01:12:15,387
3626I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself
3627
3628804
362901:12:15,471 --> 01:12:17,389
3630because I watched those
3631testimonies very carefully.
3632
3633805
363401:12:17,473 --> 01:12:19,182
3635All of us did.
3636
3637806
363801:12:19,267 --> 01:12:21,685
3639I mean, there was this
3640whole line of people,
3641
3642807
364301:12:21,769 --> 01:12:24,229
3644whole line of CEOs
3645up there, all swearing.
3646
3647808
364801:12:24,313 --> 01:12:28,191
3649Part of the reason I'm
3650here is that I felt
3651
3652809
365301:12:28,276 --> 01:12:30,861
3654that their representation
3655clearly misstated,
3656
3657810
365801:12:30,945 --> 01:12:32,904
3659at least within Brown &
3660Williamson's representation,
3661
3662811
366301:12:32,989 --> 01:12:37,284
3664clearly misstated what is common
3665language within the company.
3666
3667812
366801:12:37,368 --> 01:12:39,536
3669We are in the nicotine delivery business.
3670
3671813
367201:12:40,288 --> 01:12:41,621
3673And that's what cigarettes are for.
3674
3675814
367601:12:42,290 --> 01:12:43,874
3677Delivery device for nicotine.
3678
3679815
368001:12:43,958 --> 01:12:46,209
3681A delivery device for nicotine.
3682
3683816
368401:12:46,294 --> 01:12:49,087
3685Put it in your mouth, light it
3686up and you're going to get your fix.
3687
3688817
368901:12:49,255 --> 01:12:50,380
3690You're gonna get your fix.
3691
3692818
369301:12:51,132 --> 01:12:54,092
3694You're saying that Brown & Williamson
3695
3696819
369701:12:54,177 --> 01:12:57,012
3698manipulates and adjusts the nicotine fix
3699
3700820
370101:12:57,096 --> 01:13:01,892
3702not by artificially adding nicotine,
3703but by enhancing the effect of nicotine
3704
3705821
370601:13:01,976 --> 01:13:06,063
3707through the use of chemical
3708elements such as ammonia.
3709
3710822
371101:13:06,939 --> 01:13:08,940
3712The process is known as impact boosting.
3713
3714823
371501:13:09,734 --> 01:13:13,779
3716While not spiking nicotine,
3717they clearly manipulate it.
3718
3719824
372001:13:14,989 --> 01:13:16,615
3721There is extensive use
3722of this technology,
3723
3724825
372501:13:16,699 --> 01:13:17,991
3726known as ammonia chemistry.
3727
3728826
372901:13:19,452 --> 01:13:23,163
3730It allows for the nicotine to be
3731more rapidly absorbed in the lung
3732
3733827
373401:13:23,247 --> 01:13:25,540
3735and therefore affect the brain
3736and central nervous system.
3737
3738828
373901:13:30,004 --> 01:13:31,588
3740The straw that broke
3741the camel's back for me
3742
3743829
374401:13:31,672 --> 01:13:33,548
3745and really put me
3746in trouble with Sandefur,
3747
3748830
374901:13:33,633 --> 01:13:36,551
3750was a compound called "coumarin."
3751
3752831
375301:13:36,636 --> 01:13:38,553
3754When I came on board at B&W,
3755
3756832
375701:13:38,679 --> 01:13:43,266
3758they had tried to transition
3759from coumarin to a similar flavor
3760
3761833
376201:13:43,351 --> 01:13:45,310
3763that would give the same taste
3764and had been unsuccessful.
3765
3766834
376701:13:47,063 --> 01:13:48,897
3768I wanted it out immediately.
3769
3770835
377101:13:48,981 --> 01:13:53,527
3772I was told that it would affect sales,
3773so I should mind my own business.
3774
3775836
377601:13:54,862 --> 01:13:58,115
3777I constructed a memo to Mr. Sandefur
3778indicating I could not in conscience
3779
3780837
378101:13:58,199 --> 01:14:00,700
3782continue with coumarin
3783in a product that we now knew,
3784
3785838
378601:14:00,785 --> 01:14:02,619
3787we had documentation,
3788
3789839
379001:14:02,703 --> 01:14:05,372
3791was similar to Coumadin,
3792a lung-specific carcinogen.
3793
3794840
379501:14:05,456 --> 01:14:07,374
3796And you sent the document
3797forward to Sandefur?
3798
3799841
380001:14:07,458 --> 01:14:09,918
3801I sent the document forward to Sandefur.
3802
3803842
380401:14:10,002 --> 01:14:12,379
3805I was told that we would continue
3806to work on a substitute.
3807
3808843
380901:14:13,214 --> 01:14:14,297
3810We weren't going to remove it
3811
3812844
381301:14:14,382 --> 01:14:17,467
3814as it would impact sales
3815and that that was his decision.
3816
3817845
381801:14:17,552 --> 01:14:22,139
3819In other words, you are charging
3820Sandefur and Brown & Williamson
3821
3822846
382301:14:22,223 --> 01:14:24,558
3824with ignoring health
3825considerations consciously?
3826
3827847
382801:14:27,061 --> 01:14:28,228
3829Most certainly.
3830
3831848
383201:14:28,312 --> 01:14:29,646
3833And on March 24,
3834
3835849
383601:14:29,730 --> 01:14:34,860
3837Thomas Sandefur, CEO of Brown
3838& Williamson, had you fired.
3839
3840850
384101:14:37,655 --> 01:14:39,573
3842And the reason he gave you?
3843
3844851
384501:14:41,617 --> 01:14:43,451
3846Poor communication skills.
3847
3848852
384901:14:46,038 --> 01:14:48,165
3850And you wish you hadn't come forward?
3851
3852853
385301:14:49,667 --> 01:14:51,751
3854You wish you hadn't blown the whistle?
3855
3856854
385701:14:53,796 --> 01:14:56,173
3858Yeah, there are times
3859I wish I hadn't done it.
3860
3861855
386201:14:58,092 --> 01:15:01,386
3863There are times I feel
3864compelled to do it.
3865
3866856
386701:15:03,347 --> 01:15:07,767
3868If you'd asked me, would I do it
3869again, do I think it's worth it?
3870
3871857
387201:15:11,898 --> 01:15:13,481
3873Yeah, I think it's worth it.
3874
3875858
387601:15:47,183 --> 01:15:49,768
3877- Hi.
3878- Hi.
3879
3880859
388101:15:50,561 --> 01:15:52,812
3882My name is Jeff Wigand.
3883
3884860
388501:15:55,358 --> 01:15:59,694
3886You can call me "Mr. Wigand,"
3887you can call me "Dr. Wigand."
3888
3889861
389001:15:59,779 --> 01:16:03,281
3891I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry
3892and endocrinology.
3893
3894862
389501:16:03,366 --> 01:16:05,283
3896You can call me "Jeff."
3897
3898863
389901:16:07,912 --> 01:16:10,247
3900Anything else you want to call me,
3901you'll have to do so in private.
3902
3903864
390401:16:11,666 --> 01:16:13,833
3905Um, okay.
3906
3907865
390801:16:14,585 --> 01:16:19,047
3909I find chemistry to be magical.
3910I find it an adventure.
3911
3912866
391301:16:19,131 --> 01:16:23,301
3914An exploration into the building
3915blocks of our physical universe.
3916
3917867
391801:16:23,386 --> 01:16:25,887
3919So how many of you have
3920taken chemistry before?
3921
3922868
392301:16:28,849 --> 01:16:31,810
3924Okay, I've never taught it
3925before, so we're gonna be fine.
3926
3927869
392801:16:31,894 --> 01:16:34,271
3929Our first experiment is gonna be
3930
3931870
393201:16:34,355 --> 01:16:36,690
3933measuring the molecular weight of butane.
3934
3935871
393601:16:38,985 --> 01:16:41,611
3937He's on line three.
3938
3939872
394001:16:44,949 --> 01:16:49,286
3941- Hello?
3942- Mr. Scruggs? Jeff Wigand.
3943
3944873
394501:16:49,370 --> 01:16:50,829
3946Lowell Bergman said
3947I should give you a call.
3948
3949874
395001:16:51,664 --> 01:16:53,707
3951My co-counsel, Ron Motley and I,
3952
3953875
395401:16:53,791 --> 01:16:55,500
3955have filed a lawsuit
3956against the tobacco industry
3957
3958876
395901:16:55,584 --> 01:16:56,793
3960on behalf of the State of Mississippi
3961
3962877
396301:16:57,378 --> 01:16:59,796
3964to get the state
3965reimbursed Medicaid costs
3966
3967878
396801:16:59,880 --> 01:17:02,007
3969for treatin' people
3970with smoking-related illness.
3971
3972879
397301:17:03,551 --> 01:17:07,387
3974If you'd be interested in talkin' to us,
3975we'd certainly like to talk to you.
3976
3977880
397801:17:10,266 --> 01:17:11,599
3979When should we do this?
3980
3981881
398201:17:36,083 --> 01:17:37,792
3983Who the hell are you? What
3984are you doing in my house?
3985
3986882
398701:17:37,877 --> 01:17:40,420
3988- It's okay, Jeff. It's okay.
3989- Mr. Wigand, you need to speak to...
3990
3991883
399201:17:41,505 --> 01:17:43,882
3993You've got your own security now.
3994
3995884
399601:17:47,428 --> 01:17:49,846
3997You know, Lowell, I can't afford to.
3998
3999885
400001:17:49,930 --> 01:17:53,308
4001No, they're volunteered. A friend
4002owns a large security company.
4003
4004886
400501:17:54,602 --> 01:17:56,936
4006How're you doing, Mr. Wigand?
4007I'm John Telafarro.
4008
4009887
401001:17:57,021 --> 01:17:59,856
4011There'll be three of us on the detail.
4012
4013888
401401:17:59,940 --> 01:18:01,399
4015I'm going to the store.
4016
4017889
401801:18:01,484 --> 01:18:04,110
4019Please explain our new
4020houseguests to your children.
4021
4022890
402301:18:05,738 --> 01:18:09,115
4024Mrs. Wigand's leaving the house.
4025
4026891
402701:18:13,287 --> 01:18:15,872
4028I called Richard Scruggs in Mississippi.
4029
4030892
403101:18:16,165 --> 01:18:17,457
4032I heard.
4033
4034893
403501:18:18,501 --> 01:18:20,794
4036I'm gonna be a witness
4037for them in their litigation.
4038
4039894
404001:18:22,380 --> 01:18:24,923
4041So I'm gonna fly to Pascagoula,
4042give a deposition.
4043
4044895
404501:18:25,424 --> 01:18:27,384
4046I know. I'm gonna go there tonight.
4047
4048896
404901:18:30,054 --> 01:18:31,513
4050You all right?
4051
4052897
405301:18:31,597 --> 01:18:34,140
4054- Did you have a good day?
4055- Yes, I did. I had a great day.
4056
4057898
405801:18:34,975 --> 01:18:37,394
4059- Coffee, Lowell?
4060- Yeah, all right.
4061
4062899
406301:18:37,478 --> 01:18:39,771
4064Wanna play that game
4065we were playing before?
4066
4067900
406801:18:39,855 --> 01:18:42,690
4069You know, I think you got it up to five.
4070
4071901
407201:18:42,775 --> 01:18:44,984
4073I was ahead of you, and then you just...
4074
4075902
407601:19:06,841 --> 01:19:09,342
4077Please don't wash your hands in the sink.
4078
4079903
408001:19:09,885 --> 01:19:12,429
4081Where should I wash them?
4082
4083904
408401:19:12,513 --> 01:19:14,597
4085Use the bathroom.
4086
4087905
408801:19:14,682 --> 01:19:16,766
4089What's the difference?
4090
4091906
409201:19:16,851 --> 01:19:18,810
4093That's for food.
4094
4095907
409601:19:32,366 --> 01:19:34,909
4097Leave it on. Just leave it on! Okay?
4098
4099908
410001:20:32,927 --> 01:20:35,136
4101I don't think I can do this.
4102
4103909
410401:20:41,268 --> 01:20:43,645
4105I want to stand by my husband.
4106
4107910
410801:20:43,729 --> 01:20:46,064
4109I really do, Jeffrey, but...
4110
4111911
411201:20:47,900 --> 01:20:50,276
4113I don't think I can do this anymore.
4114
4115912
411601:20:53,531 --> 01:20:55,448
4117I am so sorry.
4118
4119913
412001:21:15,010 --> 01:21:17,845
4121Can we talk about this when I get back?
4122
4123914
412401:21:23,227 --> 01:21:25,144
4125Yes, Jeffrey.
4126
4127915
412801:22:21,243 --> 01:22:23,202
4129It's okay.
4130
4131916
413201:22:37,051 --> 01:22:38,718
4133Jeff!
4134
4135917
413601:22:43,015 --> 01:22:44,932
4137You've been served.
4138
4139918
414001:22:57,237 --> 01:22:59,947
4141Now, what this one is,
4142is a temporary restraining order,
4143
4144919
414501:23:00,032 --> 01:23:03,159
4146a gag order, issued by a Kentucky court.
4147
4148920
414901:23:03,243 --> 01:23:05,828
4150Jeff Wigand, Michael Moore.
4151
4152921
415301:23:06,246 --> 01:23:07,997
4154Good to meet you, Dr. Wigand.
4155
4156922
415701:23:08,082 --> 01:23:09,916
4158Mike's our attorney general down here.
4159
4160923
416101:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,460
4162I was just explaining to Jeff
4163they got a Kentucky court
4164
4165924
416601:23:12,544 --> 01:23:15,046
4167to issue a gag order to stop
4168his deposition today.
4169
4170925
417101:23:15,130 --> 01:23:17,090
4172- Right.
4173- Now,
4174
4175926
417601:23:17,174 --> 01:23:19,842
4177they tried to get the Mississippi
4178court to honor it,
4179
4180927
418101:23:19,927 --> 01:23:21,594
4182but the judge threw it out.
4183
4184928
418501:23:21,679 --> 01:23:26,474
4186However, for you, there is a more
4187perilous effect of the gag order.
4188
4189929
419001:23:27,518 --> 01:23:31,145
4191Dr. Wigand, you do understand
4192what can happen, don't you?
4193
4194930
419501:23:33,607 --> 01:23:37,110
4196I'm not free to testify, here.
4197
4198931
419901:23:37,903 --> 01:23:40,530
4200That's right. If you violate
4201the Kentucky order,
4202
4203932
420401:23:40,614 --> 01:23:42,865
4205when you step foot back in Kentucky
4206
4207933
420801:23:42,950 --> 01:23:45,993
4209they can find you in contempt
4210and they can incarcerate you.
4211
4212934
421301:23:46,078 --> 01:23:47,995
4214And you ought to know that.
4215
4216935
421701:23:51,625 --> 01:23:53,876
4218- Jail.
4219- Possibly, yes.
4220
4221936
422201:23:53,961 --> 01:23:55,712
4223That is one of the possible consequences
4224
4225937
422601:23:55,796 --> 01:23:58,339
4227of your testifying here today.
4228That's right.
4229
4230938
423101:24:04,221 --> 01:24:06,597
4232How does one go to jail?
4233
4234939
423501:24:07,641 --> 01:24:09,517
4236What does my family do?
4237
4238940
423901:24:11,395 --> 01:24:13,688
4240Go on welfare?
4241
4242941
424301:24:13,772 --> 01:24:17,066
4244If my wife has to work,
4245who's gonna look after the kids?
4246
4247942
424801:24:17,151 --> 01:24:19,819
4249Put food on the table?
4250I mean, my children need me.
4251
4252943
425301:24:19,903 --> 01:24:21,904
4254If I'm not teaching, there's no medical.
4255
4256944
425701:24:21,989 --> 01:24:26,033
4258No medical, even on co-pay,
4259that's like, tuition...
4260
4261945
426201:24:26,118 --> 01:24:28,828
4263Dr. Wigand, listen.
4264
4265946
426601:24:28,912 --> 01:24:31,330
4267You may not be able to do this thing.
4268
4269947
427001:24:31,415 --> 01:24:34,208
4271As I understand from Dick,
4272you're our key witness,
4273
4274948
427501:24:34,835 --> 01:24:37,462
4276and I hope you don't withdraw.
4277
4278949
427901:24:38,255 --> 01:24:40,757
4280I guess we'd all understand if you did.
4281
4282950
428301:24:41,425 --> 01:24:43,676
4284Guys, I gotta go. I'm
4285gonna be late for court.
4286
4287951
428801:24:43,761 --> 01:24:47,138
4289I'll see y'all later.
4290Dr. Wigand, good luck.
4291
4292952
429301:24:56,899 --> 01:24:59,734
4294I know what you're facing, Jeff.
4295
4296953
429701:24:59,818 --> 01:25:01,778
4298And I think I know how you're feeling.
4299
4300954
430101:25:03,363 --> 01:25:06,866
4302In the Navy, I flew A-6's off carriers.
4303
4304955
430501:25:07,701 --> 01:25:11,204
4306In combat, events have
4307a duration of seconds.
4308
4309956
431001:25:11,455 --> 01:25:13,623
4311Sometimes minutes.
4312
4313957
431401:25:13,707 --> 01:25:16,667
4315But what you're going
4316through goes on day in, day out,
4317
4318958
431901:25:16,752 --> 01:25:18,878
4320whether you're ready for it or not.
4321
4322959
432301:25:18,962 --> 01:25:20,755
4324Week in, week out.
4325
4326960
432701:25:20,839 --> 01:25:23,633
4328Month after month after month.
4329
4330961
433101:25:23,717 --> 01:25:27,178
4332Whether you're up or whether you're down.
4333
4334962
433501:25:27,262 --> 01:25:30,306
4336You're assaulted psychologically.
4337
4338963
433901:25:30,390 --> 01:25:32,809
4340You're assaulted financially,
4341
4342964
434301:25:32,893 --> 01:25:36,229
4344which is its own special kind of violence
4345because it's directed at your kids.
4346
4347965
434801:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,649
4349What school can you afford?
4350
4351966
435201:25:39,733 --> 01:25:42,443
4353How will that affect their lives?
4354
4355967
435601:25:42,528 --> 01:25:46,405
4357You're asking yourself, "Will
4358that limit what they may become?"
4359
4360968
436101:25:47,741 --> 01:25:50,326
4362You feel your whole
4363family's future is compromised,
4364
4365969
436601:25:50,410 --> 01:25:52,995
4367held hostage.
4368
4369970
437001:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,206
4371I do know how it is.
4372
4373971
437401:26:10,347 --> 01:26:11,806
4375You attract a crowd.
4376
4377972
437801:26:11,890 --> 01:26:13,808
4379Yeah. Great.
4380
4381973
438201:26:15,602 --> 01:26:18,646
4383I heard about the Kentucky gag order.
4384
4385974
438601:26:22,484 --> 01:26:24,944
4387I don't know what to do.
4388
4389975
439001:27:27,215 --> 01:27:29,342
4391Hold on a second.
4392
4393976
439401:27:30,677 --> 01:27:34,722
4395Would you please ask Mr. Motley
4396if he expects his witness to appear or not?
4397
4398977
439901:28:02,250 --> 01:28:05,169
4400I can't seem to find
4401the criteria to decide.
4402
4403978
440401:28:07,381 --> 01:28:10,549
4405It's too big a decision to make
4406without being resolved in my own mind.
4407
4408979
440901:28:12,970 --> 01:28:15,012
4410Maybe things have changed.
4411
4412980
441301:28:37,077 --> 01:28:39,036
4414A lot's changed.
4415
4416981
441701:28:44,418 --> 01:28:46,419
4418You mean since this morning?
4419
4420982
442101:28:48,714 --> 01:28:51,924
4422No, I mean since whenever.
4423
4424983
442501:28:58,140 --> 01:28:59,682
4426Fuck it.
4427
4428984
442901:29:00,976 --> 01:29:02,768
4430Let's go to court.
4431
4432985
443301:29:03,603 --> 01:29:05,479
4434Dr. Wigand would like to leave now.
4435
4436986
443701:31:30,208 --> 01:31:32,668
4438Okay, Jeff. I'm gonna sit you
4439down at that table over there.
4440
4441987
444201:31:32,752 --> 01:31:34,003
4443I want to start as fast as possible.
4444
4445988
444601:31:34,087 --> 01:31:36,630
4447I don't want to give them a chance
4448to get another restraining order. Okay?
4449
4450989
445101:31:37,340 --> 01:31:39,258
4452- Let's go.
4453- Good luck, Doc.
4454
4455990
445601:31:47,684 --> 01:31:50,686
4457Please stand. Raise your right hand.
4458
4459991
446001:31:50,770 --> 01:31:52,730
4461Do you swear to tell
4462the truth, the whole truth
4463
4464992
446501:31:52,814 --> 01:31:54,899
4466and nothing but the truth,
4467so help you God?
4468
4469993
447001:31:54,983 --> 01:31:57,526
4471- I do.
4472- You may be seated.
4473
4474994
447501:31:58,820 --> 01:32:01,238
4476You understand, Dr. Wigand,
4477you are under oath?
4478
4479995
448001:32:01,323 --> 01:32:05,409
4481This is a sworn deposition. There's no judge.
4482It's not a trial.
4483
4484996
448501:32:05,493 --> 01:32:08,662
4486Will you state your name for the record?
4487
4488997
448901:32:08,830 --> 01:32:12,124
4490Jeffrey S. Wigand. R-E-Y. W-I-G-A-N-D.
4491
4492998
449301:32:15,754 --> 01:32:18,172
4494Got any idea what's going on in there?
4495
4496999
449701:32:18,548 --> 01:32:20,466
4498No, I don't have a clue.
4499
45001000
450101:32:22,469 --> 01:32:24,887
4502- That is correct.
4503- In other words, it acts as a drug...
4504
45051001
450601:32:24,971 --> 01:32:27,306
4507- Object to the form of the question.
4508- It acts as a drug...
4509
45101002
451101:32:27,390 --> 01:32:29,266
4512- Object to the form...
4513- It acts as a drug...
4514
45151003
451601:32:29,351 --> 01:32:31,560
4517- Object!
4518- Is there an echo in here?
4519
45201004
452101:32:31,645 --> 01:32:33,479
4522Your objection's been recorded.
4523
45241005
452501:32:33,563 --> 01:32:36,732
4526She typed it into her little machine over there.
4527It's on the record.
4528
45291006
453001:32:37,108 --> 01:32:41,070
4531So now I'll proceed
4532with my deposition of my witness.
4533
45341007
453501:32:43,073 --> 01:32:45,115
4536- Does it act as a drug?
4537- Dr. Wigand!
4538
45391008
454001:32:46,409 --> 01:32:48,953
4541I am instructing you
4542
45431009
454401:32:49,454 --> 01:32:51,247
4545not to answer that question.
4546
45471010
454801:32:51,331 --> 01:32:55,251
4549In accordance to the terms
4550of the contractual obligations
4551
45521011
455301:32:55,335 --> 01:32:57,753
4554undertaken by you
4555
45561012
455701:32:57,837 --> 01:33:00,798
4558not to disclose any information
4559
45601013
456101:33:00,882 --> 01:33:04,593
4562about your work at the Brown &
4563Williamson Tobacco Company,
4564
45651014
456601:33:04,844 --> 01:33:07,972
4567and in accordance
4568with the force and effect
4569
45701015
457101:33:08,056 --> 01:33:12,434
4572of the temporary restraining order
4573that has been entered against you
4574
45751016
457601:33:12,519 --> 01:33:14,937
4577by the court in the State of Kentucky.
4578
45791017
458001:33:16,398 --> 01:33:18,399
4581That means you don't talk.
4582
45831018
458401:33:19,734 --> 01:33:21,151
4585Mr. Motley, we have rights here.
4586
45871019
458801:33:21,236 --> 01:33:22,820
4589Oh, you've got rights.
4590
45911020
459201:33:24,239 --> 01:33:27,283
4593And lefts. Ups and downs and middles.
4594
45951021
459601:33:27,367 --> 01:33:32,079
4597So what? You don't get to instruct
4598anything around here!
4599
46001022
460101:33:32,455 --> 01:33:36,750
4602This is not North Carolina, not
4603South Carolina, nor Kentucky.
4604
46051023
460601:33:37,502 --> 01:33:40,129
4607This is the sovereign State
4608of Mississippi's proceeding.
4609
46101024
461101:33:40,213 --> 01:33:41,714
4612Wipe that smirk off your face!
4613
46141025
461501:33:42,882 --> 01:33:46,927
4616Dr. Wigand's deposition
4617will be part of this record!
4618
46191026
462001:33:47,012 --> 01:33:48,804
4621And I'm gonna take my witness' testimony
4622
46231027
462401:33:48,888 --> 01:33:51,056
4625whether the hell you like it or not!
4626
46271028
462801:34:05,322 --> 01:34:07,114
4629Answer the question, Doctor.
4630
46311029
463201:34:07,198 --> 01:34:11,035
4633Yes. It produces
4634a physiological response,
4635
46361030
463701:34:11,119 --> 01:34:12,828
4638which meets the definition of a drug.
4639
46401031
464101:34:13,830 --> 01:34:17,750
4642Nicotine is associated
4643with impact, satisfaction.
4644
46451032
464601:34:18,251 --> 01:34:23,130
4647It has a pharmacological effect that crosses
4648the blood-brain barrier intact.
4649
46501033
465101:34:25,759 --> 01:34:28,635
4652Thank you, Doctor. Thank you.
4653
46541034
465501:35:12,639 --> 01:35:14,890
4656One of the reasons I'm
4657here is that I felt
4658
46591035
466001:35:14,974 --> 01:35:18,060
4661that their representation clearly...
4662
46631036
466401:35:20,563 --> 01:35:24,650
4665Run that Sandefur piece
4666on "nicotine's not addictive."
4667
46681037
466901:35:24,734 --> 01:35:28,570
4670Run that on camera, then cut right to Wigand
4671with "I believe they perjured..."
4672
46731038
467401:35:28,655 --> 01:35:31,532
4675Then go wide to the CEOs
4676all taking the oath.
4677
46781039
467901:35:31,616 --> 01:35:33,575
4680Then back on Jeff
4681
46821040
468301:35:33,660 --> 01:35:36,495
4684and play the pause after the word
4685"felt" on the B-side.
4686
46871041
468801:35:37,330 --> 01:35:40,457
4689Hell of a show, Mike. Explosive material.
4690
46911042
469201:35:42,585 --> 01:35:45,337
4693- It went great in Mississippi, Mike.
4694- Good.
4695
46961043
469701:35:45,880 --> 01:35:48,549
4698I heard Wigand's deposition got sealed.
4699
47001044
470101:35:48,633 --> 01:35:51,969
4702They argued that he was going to reveal
4703the secret formula of Kools to the world.
4704
47051045
470601:35:54,514 --> 01:35:56,932
4707Sealed doesn't hurt Scruggs' litigation,
4708
47091046
471001:35:57,016 --> 01:35:58,934
4711and since we're the only ones
4712with the story,
4713
47141047
471501:35:59,018 --> 01:36:00,644
4716I believe we're sitting on an exclusive.
4717
47181048
471901:36:00,728 --> 01:36:01,812
4720I like that.
4721
47221049
472301:36:01,896 --> 01:36:03,272
4724Corporate has some questions.
4725
47261050
472701:36:03,356 --> 01:36:05,732
4728We've got a meeting at Black
4729Rock first thing in the morning.
4730
47311051
473201:36:05,817 --> 01:36:09,695
4733- When's the air date?
4734- Lowell, Sharon's on line three.
4735
47361052
473701:36:09,779 --> 01:36:12,531
4738- Tell her I'll call her back in 10.
4739- Here we go.
4740
47411053
474201:36:13,908 --> 01:36:16,326
4743That they had long known
4744that the nicotine in tobacco
4745
47461054
474701:36:16,411 --> 01:36:20,789
4748is an addictive drug despite their public
4749statements to the contrary.
4750
47511055
475201:36:20,874 --> 01:36:24,626
4753Like the testimony before Congress
4754of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
4755
47561056
475701:36:24,711 --> 01:36:28,672
4758Brown & Williamson's chief executive
4759officer, Thomas Sandefur.
4760
47611057
476201:36:28,756 --> 01:36:31,425
4763I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
4764
47651058
476601:36:31,509 --> 01:36:33,886
4767I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself
4768
47691059
477001:36:33,970 --> 01:36:35,971
4771because I watched those
4772testimonies very carefully.
4773
47741060
477501:36:36,055 --> 01:36:39,975
4776AII of us did. I mean, there
4777was this whole line of people,
4778
47791061
478001:36:40,059 --> 01:36:42,352
4781whole line of CEOs
4782up there, all swearing.
4783
47841062
478501:36:42,437 --> 01:36:45,147
4786Part of the reason I'm
4787here is that I felt
4788
47891063
479001:36:46,274 --> 01:36:48,775
4791that their representation
4792clearly misstated
4793
47941064
479501:36:48,860 --> 01:36:50,944
4796what is common language
4797within the company.
4798
47991065
480001:36:51,029 --> 01:36:53,280
4801We are in the nicotine delivery business.
4802
48031066
480401:36:53,990 --> 01:36:55,699
4805There is extensive use
4806of this technology,
4807
48081067
480901:36:55,783 --> 01:36:56,992
4810known as ammonia chemistry.
4811
48121068
481301:36:57,076 --> 01:37:00,996
4814It allows for the nicotine to be
4815more rapidly absorbed in the lung
4816
48171069
481801:37:01,080 --> 01:37:03,540
4819and therefore affect the brain
4820and central nervous system.
4821
48221070
482301:37:03,625 --> 01:37:05,292
4824That's what cigarettes are for.
4825
48261071
482701:37:05,376 --> 01:37:06,543
4828Delivery device for nicotine.
4829
48301072
483101:37:06,628 --> 01:37:08,378
4832A delivery device for nicotine.
4833
48341073
483501:37:08,463 --> 01:37:11,632
4836Put it in your mouth, light it
4837up and you're going to get your fix.
4838
48391074
484001:37:11,716 --> 01:37:13,175
4841You're gonna get your fix.
4842
48431075
484401:40:18,194 --> 01:40:21,154
4845- Shall I send for coffee? Sorry I'm late.
4846- No, we're fine.
4847
48481076
484901:40:21,239 --> 01:40:22,948
4850- Are you sure?
4851- Yeah.
4852
48531077
485401:40:24,283 --> 01:40:26,535
4855All right. I thought we'd get together
4856
48571078
485801:40:26,619 --> 01:40:28,537
4859because there's a legal concept
4860
48611079
486201:40:28,621 --> 01:40:31,081
4863that has been getting some new
4864attention recently.
4865
48661080
486701:40:31,165 --> 01:40:33,458
4868Tortious interference.
4869
48701081
487101:40:33,543 --> 01:40:37,337
4872If two people have an agreement,
4873like a confidentiality agreement,
4874
48751082
487601:40:37,422 --> 01:40:41,883
4877and one of them breaks it because they are induced
4878to do so by a third party,
4879
48801083
488101:40:41,968 --> 01:40:45,220
4882the third party can be sued
4883for damages for interfering.
4884
48851084
488601:40:45,304 --> 01:40:47,180
4887Hence, tortious interference.
4888
48891085
489001:40:47,265 --> 01:40:50,016
4891"Interfering"? That's what we do.
4892
48931086
489401:40:50,435 --> 01:40:53,061
4895I think what we're trying to tell you
4896is that it happens all the time.
4897
48981087
489901:40:53,146 --> 01:40:57,149
4900This is a news organization. People
4901are always telling us things they shouldn't.
4902
49031088
490401:40:57,567 --> 01:41:00,360
4905We have to verify if it's true
4906and in the public interest.
4907
49081089
490901:41:00,445 --> 01:41:01,737
4910And if it is, we air it.
4911
49121090
491301:41:01,821 --> 01:41:03,113
4914And after we corroborate it.
4915
49161091
491701:41:03,197 --> 01:41:06,116
4918That's why we've never lost
4919a lawsuit and run a classy show.
4920
49211092
492201:41:06,200 --> 01:41:07,242
4923Anything else?
4924
49251093
492601:41:07,326 --> 01:41:10,996
4927And 60 Minutes' verification
4928is exact and precise.
4929
49301094
493101:41:11,080 --> 01:41:15,000
4932And I don't think it would hurt to make
4933sure you're right on this one.
4934
49351095
493601:41:15,084 --> 01:41:19,045
4937Why? You think we have liability?
4938
49391096
494001:41:19,130 --> 01:41:21,047
4941What's the CBS News position, Eric?
4942
49431097
494401:41:21,132 --> 01:41:23,300
4945There's a possibility.
4946It's rather remote.
4947
49481098
494901:41:23,593 --> 01:41:26,428
4950But one we have to check on, Mike.
4951
49521099
495301:41:26,512 --> 01:41:29,014
4954I've retained outside counsel
4955to do exactly that
4956
49571100
495801:41:29,098 --> 01:41:33,769
4959on a segment, I might add,
4960that's already rife with problems.
4961
49621101
496301:41:33,853 --> 01:41:35,604
4964What does that mean? "Rife with..."
4965
49661102
496701:41:35,688 --> 01:41:38,940
4968I'm told unusual promises
4969were made to Wigand.
4970
49711103
497201:41:39,150 --> 01:41:41,610
4973No, only that we would hold his story
4974until it was safe for him.
4975
49761104
497701:41:41,694 --> 01:41:44,780
4978And I'm told there are questions
4979as to our star witness' veracity.
4980
49811105
498201:41:45,239 --> 01:41:48,241
4983His "veracity" was good
4984enough for the State of Mississippi.
4985
49861106
498701:41:48,451 --> 01:41:50,702
4988Our standards have to be
4989higher than anyone else's,
4990
49911107
499201:41:50,787 --> 01:41:53,789
4993because we are the standard
4994for everybody else.
4995
49961108
499701:41:54,582 --> 01:41:58,418
4998Well, as a "standard," I'll hang
4999with "is this guy telling the truth?"
5000
50011109
500201:41:59,504 --> 01:42:03,465
5003Well, with tortious interference,
5004I'm afraid, the greater the truth,
5005
50061110
500701:42:03,549 --> 01:42:05,091
5008the greater the damage.
5009
50101111
501101:42:07,178 --> 01:42:08,428
5012Come again?
5013
50141112
501501:42:08,513 --> 01:42:12,224
5016They own the information he's disclosing.
5017
50181113
501901:42:12,517 --> 01:42:16,061
5020The truer it is, the greater
5021the damage to them.
5022
50231114
502401:42:16,646 --> 01:42:18,814
5025If he lied, he didn't
5026disclose their information,
5027
50281115
502901:42:18,898 --> 01:42:20,398
5030and the damages are smaller.
5031
50321116
503301:42:25,446 --> 01:42:29,407
5034- Is this Alice in Wonderland?
5035- You said, "on this one."
5036
50371117
503801:42:30,201 --> 01:42:32,118
5039What about this one?
5040
50411118
504201:42:32,370 --> 01:42:35,831
5043If this holds up, and it
5044very well may not, Mike.
5045
50461119
504701:42:35,915 --> 01:42:39,459
5048But if it did and we aired this segment,
5049
50501120
505101:42:39,544 --> 01:42:43,505
5052and CBS was sued by Brown & Williamson,
5053
50541121
505501:42:43,589 --> 01:42:45,757
5056I think we could be at grave risk.
5057
50581122
505901:42:45,842 --> 01:42:49,719
5060- How grave?
5061- Well, at the end of the day,
5062
50631123
506401:42:49,804 --> 01:42:52,305
5065because of your segment,
5066
50671124
506801:42:52,390 --> 01:42:54,808
5069the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company
5070
50711125
507201:42:54,892 --> 01:42:56,935
5073could own CBS.
5074
50751126
507601:43:00,940 --> 01:43:04,651
5077Oh. You know, I am sorry,
5078but I'm due upstairs.
5079
50801127
508101:43:05,820 --> 01:43:08,780
5082Is CBS Corporate telling CBS News,
5083
50841128
508501:43:09,073 --> 01:43:11,533
5086"Do not go to air with this story"?
5087
50881129
508901:43:12,451 --> 01:43:15,245
5090You're getting ahead of yourself.
5091We're all in this together.
5092
50931130
509401:43:15,329 --> 01:43:18,415
5095We're all CBS. We'll find out soon.
5096
50971131
509801:43:18,499 --> 01:43:20,458
5099Thank you, gentlemen.
5100
51011132
510201:43:27,550 --> 01:43:29,509
5103"Tortious interference."
5104
51051133
510601:43:29,594 --> 01:43:32,554
5107That sounds like a disease
5108caught by a radio.
5109
51101134
511101:43:32,638 --> 01:43:34,389
5112- Lunch?
5113- Sure.
5114
51151135
511601:43:35,766 --> 01:43:37,642
5117Don't worry. We call
5118the shots around here.
5119
51201136
512101:43:53,034 --> 01:43:54,993
5122- Hello?
5123- Debbie, it's me.
5124
51251137
512601:43:55,077 --> 01:43:56,578
5127I want you to check some filings,
5128
51291138
513001:43:56,662 --> 01:43:59,164
5131and give me John Wilson's number
5132at Bear Stearns.
5133
51341139
513501:44:07,173 --> 01:44:09,633
5136- What now?
5137- Kluster's coming over.
5138
51391140
514001:44:17,475 --> 01:44:19,434
5141Hello, Lowell, Mike.
5142
51431141
514401:44:19,602 --> 01:44:21,686
5145Don.
5146
51471142
514801:44:22,146 --> 01:44:26,191
5149There has been so much soul
5150searching about this Wigand.
5151
51521143
515301:44:26,275 --> 01:44:29,277
5154I've decided we should cut
5155an alternate version of the show
5156
51571144
515801:44:29,362 --> 01:44:30,612
5159without his interview.
5160
51611145
516201:44:30,696 --> 01:44:35,116
5163So what happened to Ms. Caperelli's checking
5164with outside counsel first?
5165
51661146
516701:44:35,201 --> 01:44:37,035
5168- All that crap?
5169- That's happening.
5170
51711147
517201:44:37,119 --> 01:44:38,912
5173Hopefully, we won't have
5174to use the alternate,
5175
51761148
517701:44:38,996 --> 01:44:40,455
5178but we should have it in the can.
5179
51801149
518101:44:40,539 --> 01:44:41,748
5182I'm not touching my film.
5183
51841150
518501:44:41,874 --> 01:44:43,208
5186- I'm afraid you are.
5187- No, I'm not.
5188
51891151
519001:44:43,292 --> 01:44:46,044
5191We're doing this
5192with or without you, Lowell.
5193
51941152
519501:44:46,712 --> 01:44:50,548
5196If you like, I can assign
5197another producer to edit your show.
5198
51991153
520001:44:52,760 --> 01:44:58,306
5201Since when has the paragon
5202of investigative journalism
5203
52041154
520501:44:58,391 --> 01:45:02,519
5206allowed lawyers to determine
5207the news content on 60 Minutes?
5208
52091155
521001:45:02,603 --> 01:45:03,979
5211It's an alternate version.
5212
52131156
521401:45:05,022 --> 01:45:07,691
5215So what if we have an alternate version?
5216
52171157
521801:45:07,775 --> 01:45:10,402
5219And I don't think our being
5220cautious is so damned unreasonable.
5221
52221158
522301:45:11,696 --> 01:45:13,738
5224So now, if you will excuse me, gentlemen,
5225
52261159
522701:45:13,823 --> 01:45:16,408
5228Mr. Rather's been complaining about his chair
5229again.
5230
52311160
523201:45:16,492 --> 01:45:18,076
5233Before you go,
5234
52351161
523601:45:20,746 --> 01:45:22,414
5237I discovered this.
5238
52391162
524001:45:24,333 --> 01:45:25,792
5241SEC filing
5242
52431163
524401:45:25,876 --> 01:45:29,295
5245for the sale of CBS Corporation
5246to Westinghouse Corporation.
5247
52481164
524901:45:29,380 --> 01:45:31,214
5250- What?
5251- Yeah, I heard rumors.
5252
52531165
525401:45:31,298 --> 01:45:32,507
5255It's not a rumor. It's a sale.
5256
52571166
525801:45:32,591 --> 01:45:36,845
5259If Tisch can unload CBS for $81
5260a share to Westinghouse,
5261
52621167
526301:45:36,929 --> 01:45:38,346
5264and then is suddenly threatened
5265
52661168
526701:45:38,431 --> 01:45:42,225
5268with a multi-billion dollar
5269lawsuit from Brown & Williamson,
5270
52711169
527201:45:42,768 --> 01:45:44,686
5273that could screw
5274up the sale, could it not?
5275
52761170
527701:45:44,770 --> 01:45:47,480
5278- What are you implying?
5279- I'm not implying. I'm quoting.
5280
52811171
528201:45:49,400 --> 01:45:52,527
5283"More vested interests. Persons
5284who will profit from this merger.
5285
52861172
528701:45:52,611 --> 01:45:57,866
5288"Ms. Helen Caperelli, general
5289counsel of CBS News, 3.9 million.
5290
52911173
529201:45:58,075 --> 01:46:01,036
5293"Mr. Eric Kluster, President of CBS News,
5294
52951174
529601:46:01,120 --> 01:46:02,662
5297"1 .4 million."
5298
52991175
530001:46:04,415 --> 01:46:07,250
5301Are you suggesting that she and Eric
5302are influenced by money?
5303
53041176
530501:46:07,334 --> 01:46:11,379
5306No, no, of course they're not influenced by money.
5307They work for free.
5308
53091177
531001:46:11,464 --> 01:46:13,965
5311And you are a volunteer
5312executive producer.
5313
53141178
531501:46:14,550 --> 01:46:18,011
5316CBS does not do that. And you're
5317questioning ourjournalistic integrity.
5318
53191179
532001:46:18,095 --> 01:46:19,929
5321No, I'm questioning your hearing.
5322
53231180
532401:46:20,014 --> 01:46:22,307
5325You hear "reasonable"
5326and "tortious interference."
5327
53281181
532901:46:22,391 --> 01:46:25,560
5330I hear "potential Brown
5331& Williamson lawsuit
5332
53331182
533401:46:25,644 --> 01:46:28,646
5335"jeopardizing the sale
5336of CBS to Westinghouse."
5337
53381183
533901:46:28,731 --> 01:46:32,108
5340I hear, "Shut the segment down.
5341Cut Wigand loose.
5342
53431184
534401:46:32,193 --> 01:46:34,986
5345"Obey orders and fuck
5346off." That's what I hear.
5347
53481185
534901:46:35,071 --> 01:46:36,488
5350- You're exaggerating.
5351- I am?
5352
53531186
535401:46:36,572 --> 01:46:39,866
5355You pay me to go get guys like Wigand,
5356
53571187
535801:46:39,950 --> 01:46:43,745
5359to draw him out, to get him to trust
5360us, to get him to go on television.
5361
53621188
536301:46:43,829 --> 01:46:46,748
5364I do. I deliver him. He sits. He talks.
5365
53661189
536701:46:46,832 --> 01:46:50,085
5368He violates his own fucking
5369confidentiality agreement.
5370
53711190
537201:46:50,169 --> 01:46:54,297
5373And he's only the key witness
5374in the biggest public health reform issue,
5375
53761191
537701:46:54,381 --> 01:46:56,466
5378maybe the biggest, most expensive
5379
53801192
538101:46:56,550 --> 01:46:59,469
5382corporate malfeasance case in US history.
5383
53841193
538501:46:59,553 --> 01:47:01,888
5386And Jeffrey Wigand, who's out on a limb,
5387
53881194
538901:47:01,972 --> 01:47:04,307
5390does he go on television
5391and tell the truth?
5392
53931195
539401:47:04,391 --> 01:47:06,601
5395Yes. Is it newsworthy?
5396
53971196
539801:47:06,685 --> 01:47:09,354
5399Yes. Are we gonna air it?
5400
54011197
540201:47:09,438 --> 01:47:11,481
5403Of course not. Why?
5404
54051198
540601:47:11,565 --> 01:47:13,942
5407Because he's not telling the truth? No.
5408
54091199
541001:47:14,026 --> 01:47:17,737
5411Because he is telling the truth.
5412That's why we're not gonna air it.
5413
54141200
541501:47:17,822 --> 01:47:20,406
5416And the more truth he tells,
5417the worse it gets.
5418
54191201
542001:47:20,491 --> 01:47:23,201
5421You are a fanatic, an anarchist.
5422You know that?
5423
54241202
542501:47:24,120 --> 01:47:27,664
5426If we can't have a whole show, then
5427I want half a show rather than no show.
5428
54291203
543001:47:28,124 --> 01:47:29,290
5431But, oh, no. Not you.
5432
54331204
543401:47:29,375 --> 01:47:31,668
5435You won't be satisfied unless you're
5436putting the company at risk!
5437
54381205
543901:47:31,752 --> 01:47:34,963
5440What are you? Are you a businessman
5441or are you a newsman?
5442
54431206
544401:47:35,047 --> 01:47:37,423
5445Because that happens
5446to be what Mike and I
5447
54481207
544901:47:37,508 --> 01:47:40,135
5450and some other people
5451around here do for a living.
5452
54531208
545401:47:40,219 --> 01:47:43,721
5455Put the corporation at risk?
5456Give me a fucking break!
5457
54581209
545901:47:43,806 --> 01:47:46,057
5460These people are putting our whole reason
5461
54621210
546301:47:46,142 --> 01:47:48,059
5464for doing what we do on the line!
5465
54661211
546701:47:48,185 --> 01:47:50,228
5468- Lowell!
5469- What?
5470
54711212
547201:47:50,855 --> 01:47:53,064
5473I'm with Don on this.
5474
54751213
547601:48:15,838 --> 01:48:17,046
5477What's wrong?
5478
54791214
548001:48:17,131 --> 01:48:19,716
5481They're killing the Wigand interview.
5482
54831215
548401:48:20,301 --> 01:48:21,467
5485What?
5486
54871216
548801:48:21,552 --> 01:48:24,345
5489They're pretending it's process.
5490That's bullshit. It's foregone.
5491
54921217
549301:48:28,017 --> 01:48:29,934
5494What are you and Mike gonna do?
5495
54961218
549701:48:32,688 --> 01:48:34,731
5498I'm alone on this.
5499
55001219
550101:48:36,275 --> 01:48:38,026
5502- Oh, baby.
5503- Yeah.
5504
55051220
550601:49:08,098 --> 01:49:10,016
5507It's Jeffrey Wigand.
5508
55091221
551001:49:19,526 --> 01:49:22,987
5511Jeffrey. How are you?
5512
55131222
551401:49:23,072 --> 01:49:24,822
5515How's the family? Okay?
5516
55171223
551801:49:25,407 --> 01:49:26,616
5519There is no family.
5520
55211224
552201:49:26,700 --> 01:49:28,201
5523What do you mean, "there is no family"?
5524
55251225
552601:49:28,827 --> 01:49:30,828
5527Liane has filed for divorce.
5528
55291226
553001:49:31,288 --> 01:49:34,123
5531And, so, I've moved out.
5532
55331227
553401:49:34,208 --> 01:49:36,584
5535I see the girls a couple of days a week.
5536
55371228
553801:49:36,669 --> 01:49:40,255
5539- Where are you staying now?
5540- Our favorite hotel, honey.
5541
55421229
554301:49:42,174 --> 01:49:44,342
5544I checked into room 930.
5545
55461230
554701:49:46,512 --> 01:49:48,429
5548Odd choice, huh?
5549
55501231
555101:49:52,017 --> 01:49:54,519
5552I don't know how to say this,
5553
55541232
555501:49:54,603 --> 01:49:56,646
5556Jeff, except to just say it right out.
5557
55581233
555901:49:56,730 --> 01:50:00,733
5560So, I'll say it. They
5561do not want to air it.
5562
55631234
556401:50:03,028 --> 01:50:04,487
5565What?
5566
55671235
556801:50:04,571 --> 01:50:07,865
5569B&W may have threatened litigation.
5570
55711236
557201:50:07,950 --> 01:50:10,368
5573CBS is on the block.
5574
55751237
557601:50:10,828 --> 01:50:14,038
5577- But you, I mean, I know how you...
5578- No.
5579
55801238
558101:50:14,873 --> 01:50:16,374
5582"No," what?
5583
55841239
558501:50:17,084 --> 01:50:21,879
5586I do not think that you know for me
5587what it is to walk in my shoes.
5588
55891240
559001:50:23,716 --> 01:50:25,675
5591For my kids to have seen it,
5592
55931241
559401:50:27,052 --> 01:50:29,637
5595for them to know why I've put
5596them through what I did.
5597
55981242
559901:50:30,556 --> 01:50:33,308
5600The public airing of that,
5601the testament to why I did what I did.
5602
56031243
560401:50:33,392 --> 01:50:36,394
5605You're telling me it's not
5606gonna see the light of day?
5607
56081244
560901:50:37,062 --> 01:50:38,271
5610Jeff.
5611
56121245
561301:51:22,274 --> 01:51:24,192
5614Mrs. Wigand?
5615
56161246
561701:51:25,611 --> 01:51:28,529
5618It hasn't been Mrs. Wigand for some time.
5619
56201247
562101:51:28,614 --> 01:51:29,864
5622I'm an investigator,
5623
56241248
562501:51:29,948 --> 01:51:32,950
5626and I was wondering if I could ask you
5627a couple of questions about that.
5628
56291249
563001:51:35,371 --> 01:51:37,288
5631All right.
5632
56331250
563401:51:41,835 --> 01:51:44,045
5635Seven months after we were married,
5636
56371251
563801:51:44,129 --> 01:51:46,464
5639we found out that I had
5640multiple sclerosis.
5641
56421252
564301:51:46,548 --> 01:51:48,383
5644And you had a daughter, Diane...
5645
56461253
564701:51:48,467 --> 01:51:50,385
5648Tommy Sandefur told me himself.
5649
56501254
565101:51:50,469 --> 01:51:53,137
5652He's not going to allow Brown
5653& Williamson to be demonized
5654
56551255
565601:51:53,222 --> 01:51:55,056
5657to the American public.
5658
56591256
566001:51:55,140 --> 01:51:57,892
5661So I told Peter Jennings.
5662And I... Hold on.
5663
56641257
566501:51:57,976 --> 01:51:59,394
5666You had multiple sclerosis.
5667
56681258
566901:51:59,478 --> 01:52:01,646
5670You had a small child to raise.
5671
56721259
567301:52:02,147 --> 01:52:05,733
5674Mention that part in the executive
5675summary and in the chapters.
5676
56771260
567801:52:05,818 --> 01:52:08,194
5679First wife and estrangement of daughter.
5680
56811261
568201:52:08,779 --> 01:52:10,947
5683So I was telling Pete, I said,
5684"You've been taken in by this guy."
5685
56861262
568701:52:11,031 --> 01:52:13,825
5688The divorce was something
5689that we both wanted.
5690
56911263
569201:52:14,743 --> 01:52:16,494
5693He's a shoplifter.
5694
56951264
569601:52:17,538 --> 01:52:19,330
5697He's a convicted shoplifter.
5698
56991265
570001:52:37,558 --> 01:52:40,893
5701So, what are you gonna do?
5702
57031266
570401:52:41,770 --> 01:52:44,355
5705What do you think I'm gonna do?
5706Quit in protest?
5707
57081267
570901:52:45,023 --> 01:52:46,441
5710I'm not gonna do that.
5711
57121268
571301:52:47,484 --> 01:52:48,943
5714You're taking "no" for an answer?
5715
57161269
571701:52:49,778 --> 01:52:52,447
5718No, I'm not gonna take
5719"no" for an answer. No.
5720
57211270
572201:52:52,531 --> 01:52:55,116
5723You're not? What are you doing?
5724
57251271
572601:52:55,200 --> 01:52:59,162
5727I'm staying right here, doing my job.
5728Fighting to get my show on the air.
5729
57301272
573101:52:59,246 --> 01:53:01,372
5732You don't like it? Hey, I tell you what?
5733
57341273
573501:53:01,457 --> 01:53:03,040
5736Fire my ass.
5737
57381274
573901:53:04,918 --> 01:53:08,713
5740End up in a high-profile lawsuit
5741with Lowell, the First Amendment martyr?
5742
57431275
574401:53:12,134 --> 01:53:14,469
5745I don't think so. Take a look at this.
5746
57471276
574801:53:15,888 --> 01:53:18,723
5749This is a summary of a dossier
5750that's being prepared.
5751
57521277
575301:53:19,391 --> 01:53:21,100
5754He wouldn't lie about his whole life.
5755
57561278
575701:53:21,185 --> 01:53:23,311
5758Who's gonna believe him
5759about anything he says?
5760
57611279
576201:53:23,395 --> 01:53:27,231
5763The Wall Street Journal is doing
5764a major story, and, I think, The Post.
5765
57661280
576701:53:28,442 --> 01:53:31,110
5768You backed the wrong horse.
5769
57701281
577101:53:31,195 --> 01:53:34,322
5772The version without the interview
5773is gonna air the week after next.
5774
57751282
577601:53:41,580 --> 01:53:42,914
5777What was that about?
5778
57791283
578001:53:44,291 --> 01:53:46,792
5781- Get me Wigand.
5782- Sure.
5783
57841284
578501:53:50,130 --> 01:53:53,174
5786What the fuck is this? Fuck!
5787
57881285
578901:53:53,258 --> 01:53:55,510
5790You never told me you
5791were married before.
5792
57931286
579401:53:55,594 --> 01:53:58,721
5795- That you had a daughter.
5796- How is that any of your business?
5797
57981287
579901:53:58,805 --> 01:54:01,098
5800That is not something
5801that you people need to know.
5802
58031288
580401:54:01,183 --> 01:54:03,267
5805Oh, you know what we do
5806or do not need to know?
5807
58081289
580901:54:03,352 --> 01:54:05,061
5810Since when have you
5811become a media expert?
5812
58131290
581401:54:05,145 --> 01:54:06,938
5815What do you wanna do, Lowell?
5816Look up my ass, too?
5817
58181291
581901:54:07,022 --> 01:54:08,356
5820Oh, for God's sake.
5821
58221292
582301:54:08,440 --> 01:54:09,815
5824You're not even on this anymore.
5825What do you care?
5826
58271293
582801:54:09,900 --> 01:54:11,192
5829Jeff, wake the fuck up!
5830
58311294
583201:54:11,276 --> 01:54:14,862
5833Everybody is on the line here.
5834If they catch you in a lie,
5835
58361295
583701:54:14,947 --> 01:54:17,573
5838they can paint everything
5839with that brush, you understand?
5840
58411296
584201:54:17,658 --> 01:54:20,076
5843- Everything you say.
5844- I told the truth.
5845
58461297
584701:54:20,160 --> 01:54:23,704
5848Everything you say. And
5849I can't defend you, man,
5850
58511298
585201:54:23,789 --> 01:54:25,748
5853with one hand tied behind my back
5854
58551299
585601:54:25,832 --> 01:54:28,417
5857because you keep from me
5858what they can discover.
5859
58601300
586101:54:28,502 --> 01:54:31,212
5862And they will discover everything.
5863Believe me.
5864
58651301
586601:54:31,296 --> 01:54:33,464
5867I was young! I was young!
5868
58691302
587001:54:33,549 --> 01:54:36,133
5871Confused. We didn't
5872handle it the right way.
5873
58741303
587501:54:36,218 --> 01:54:38,219
5876She sued you for back
5877payments of child support?
5878
58791304
588001:54:38,303 --> 01:54:39,554
5881She did not sue me.
5882
58831305
588401:54:39,638 --> 01:54:43,266
5885We had a dispute over money. I settled it.
5886She dropped the complaint.
5887
58881306
588901:54:44,601 --> 01:54:45,726
5890Any other questions?
5891
58921307
589301:54:45,811 --> 01:54:48,229
5894Yes. Did you lie about being
5895on the American judo team
5896
58971308
589801:54:48,313 --> 01:54:49,313
5899in the Olympics?
5900
59011309
590201:54:49,731 --> 01:54:52,024
5903- What?
5904- Some public relations guy
5905
59061310
590701:54:52,109 --> 01:54:54,110
5908got hold of a tape of an interview
5909where you're saying
5910
59111311
591201:54:54,194 --> 01:54:56,737
5913you were on the American
5914judo team in the Olympics.
5915
59161312
591701:54:56,822 --> 01:54:58,823
5918What kind of shit is this?
5919
59201313
592101:54:59,992 --> 01:55:04,078
5922I was not on the team. I sparred
5923with the Olympic team. Okay?
5924
59251314
592601:55:04,162 --> 01:55:07,164
5927All right. ABC Telemarketing Company?
5928
59291315
593001:55:07,499 --> 01:55:10,293
5931- ABC...
5932- ABC Telemarketing Company.
5933
59341316
593501:55:10,377 --> 01:55:13,421
5936The can opener! A 39.95 can opener!
5937
59381317
593901:55:13,505 --> 01:55:15,339
5940I canceled payment. It was junk!
5941
59421318
594301:55:16,049 --> 01:55:19,218
5944You ever bounce a check, Lowell? You
5945ever look at another woman's tits?
5946
59471319
594801:55:19,344 --> 01:55:21,679
5949You ever cheat a little on your taxes?
5950
59511320
595201:55:21,763 --> 01:55:24,765
5953Whose life, if you look at it
5954under a microscope, doesn't have any flaws?
5955
59561321
595701:55:24,850 --> 01:55:27,977
5958Well, that's the whole point, Jeffrey.
5959That's the whole point.
5960
59611322
596201:55:28,061 --> 01:55:31,939
5963Anyone's, everyone's. They
5964are gonna look under every rock,
5965
59661323
596701:55:32,024 --> 01:55:35,735
5968dig up every flaw, every mistake
5969you've ever made.
5970
59711324
597201:55:35,819 --> 01:55:38,195
5973They are going to distort and exaggerate
5974
59751325
597601:55:38,280 --> 01:55:40,781
5977everything you've ever done, man.
5978Don't you understand?
5979
59801326
598101:55:40,866 --> 01:55:42,742
5982What does this have to do
5983with my testimony?
5984
59851327
598601:55:42,826 --> 01:55:44,619
5987What does it have to do
5988with my testimony?
5989
59901328
599101:55:44,703 --> 01:55:47,622
5992- I told the truth! It's true and provable!
5993- It's not about...
5994
59951329
599601:55:47,706 --> 01:55:49,874
5997That's not the fucking point,
5998whether you told the truth or not!
5999
60001330
600101:55:52,586 --> 01:55:53,919
6002Hello?
6003
60041331
600501:55:57,466 --> 01:55:59,216
6006I told the truth.
6007
60081332
600901:56:01,803 --> 01:56:03,429
6010I told the truth.
6011
60121333
601301:56:05,891 --> 01:56:08,059
6014I gotta teach class. I gotta go.
6015I gotta teach class.
6016
60171334
601801:56:08,560 --> 01:56:11,354
6019And I gotta refute
6020every fucking accusation made
6021
60221335
602301:56:11,438 --> 01:56:14,398
6024in this report before The
6025Wall Street Journal runs.
6026
60271336
602801:56:18,111 --> 01:56:20,071
6029I am trying to protect you, man.
6030
60311337
603201:56:20,906 --> 01:56:22,865
6033I hope you improve your batting average.
6034
60351338
603601:56:42,678 --> 01:56:46,013
6037They're cutting the interest rate,
6038and I have that great feature...
6039
60401339
604101:56:52,145 --> 01:56:54,105
6042- Hello?
6043- It's Lowell.
6044
60451340
604601:56:54,606 --> 01:56:58,818
6047Are you guys planning to do a piece
6048on a former top executive in Big Tobacco?
6049
60501341
605101:56:58,944 --> 01:57:01,779
6052- You caught me in a news meeting.
6053- Are you or are you not, Charlie?
6054
60551342
605601:57:02,072 --> 01:57:03,906
6057You bet we are, and I can't
6058talk to you now.
6059
60601343
606101:57:03,990 --> 01:57:06,742
6062- We gotta hook up.
6063- Sure. Where?
6064
60651344
606601:57:06,827 --> 01:57:08,786
6067- PJ's.
6068- I'll be there.
6069
60701345
607101:57:16,878 --> 01:57:19,505
6072Yeah, I got it. 500 pages of it.
6073
60741346
607501:57:19,589 --> 01:57:21,716
6076They looked in every corner
6077of this guy's life,
6078
60791347
608001:57:21,800 --> 01:57:23,217
6081from the spousal abuse charge,
6082
60831348
608401:57:23,301 --> 01:57:26,971
6085to shoplifting, to a traffic ticket
6086he got once for running a red light.
6087
60881349
608901:57:27,055 --> 01:57:30,558
6090It's Terry Lenzner's outfit, IGI.
6091Jack, listen to me.
6092
60931350
609401:57:30,642 --> 01:57:33,060
6095Their strategy: Discredit this guy,
6096
60971351
609801:57:33,145 --> 01:57:35,229
6099ruin his reputation in The
6100Wall Street Journal,
6101
61021352
610301:57:35,313 --> 01:57:38,733
6104and then nobody will ever listen
6105to what he's got to say about tobacco.
6106
61071353
610801:57:39,276 --> 01:57:41,902
6109He's dead unless I can get
6110this thing knocked down.
6111
61121354
611301:57:41,987 --> 01:57:44,447
6114Make it even a little more attractive.
6115
61161355
611701:57:44,531 --> 01:57:47,074
6118I don't know if you're
6119ever gonna get paid.
6120
61211356
612201:57:47,159 --> 01:57:49,744
6123- Is there any truth to any of it?
6124- That's a good question.
6125
61261357
612701:57:49,828 --> 01:57:52,121
6128"Is there any truth
6129to any of it?" I doubt it.
6130
61311358
613201:57:52,205 --> 01:57:54,749
6133- What's the deadline?
6134- Soon.
6135
61361359
613701:57:59,755 --> 01:58:01,797
6138- Fax me the summary.
6139- That's great, Jack.
6140
61411360
614201:58:09,681 --> 01:58:12,725
6143- Hey. How are you? Hey, listen.
6144- Hey.
6145
61461361
614701:58:12,809 --> 01:58:16,103
6148I hear you guys are sitting
6149on something sensational over there.
6150
61511362
615201:58:16,396 --> 01:58:19,899
6153- Really? Hi, June.
6154- Oh, hi, baby.
6155
61561363
615701:58:21,693 --> 01:58:23,819
6158- Catch you later.
6159- Okay. Take care.
6160
61611364
616201:58:26,031 --> 01:58:27,573
6163- When's your deadline?
6164- Monday.
6165
61661365
616701:58:27,657 --> 01:58:29,950
6168- Push it.
6169- What? Forget it.
6170
61711366
617201:58:30,035 --> 01:58:32,077
6173It's a smear campaign, Charlie.
6174
61751367
617601:58:32,162 --> 01:58:33,954
6177It's drawn from a selectively
6178circulated...
6179
61801368
618101:58:34,039 --> 01:58:35,581
6182Oh, yeah. Real selective.
6183
61841369
618501:58:35,707 --> 01:58:37,792
6186About as hard to get a hold
6187of as the Manhattan phone book.
6188
61891370
619001:58:37,876 --> 01:58:42,004
6191Well, it's authoritative
6192and overwhelmingly documented.
6193
61941371
619501:58:42,088 --> 01:58:44,715
6196And it's bullshit. And if I'm
6197right, are you gonna put.
6198
61991372
620001:58:44,800 --> 01:58:48,344
6201The Journal's reputation behind a story
6202that's gonna blow up in your face?
6203
62041373
620501:58:48,428 --> 01:58:49,929
6206I'll take a look at what you got,
6207
62081374
620901:58:50,013 --> 01:58:52,348
6210but I'm not moving any deadlines
6211because you say so.
6212
62131375
621401:59:00,065 --> 01:59:01,482
6215Are you all right?
6216
62171376
621801:59:03,735 --> 01:59:04,902
6219Yeah.
6220
62211377
622201:59:14,704 --> 01:59:16,413
6223Officer Muravchick?
6224
62251378
622601:59:17,332 --> 01:59:18,833
6227Thank you.
6228
62291379
623001:59:20,460 --> 01:59:22,711
6231Officer Muravchick, how are you?
6232
62331380
623401:59:22,796 --> 01:59:25,047
6235- I'm Sandra Sutherland.
6236- How do you do?
6237
62381381
623901:59:25,131 --> 01:59:27,216
6240Fine, thank you. I'm doing
6241a background check.
6242
62431382
624401:59:27,300 --> 01:59:29,260
6245Mind if I sit down?
6246
62471383
624801:59:31,388 --> 01:59:33,973
6249Your Honor, could I have a word with you?
6250
62511384
625201:59:35,392 --> 01:59:39,144
6253You presided in a dispute
6254over support payments.
6255
62561385
625701:59:39,229 --> 01:59:42,523
6258Jeffrey Wigand? Yeah, I cited him.
6259
62601386
626101:59:42,607 --> 01:59:46,569
6262CBS is under criticism because the CBS
6263news program, 60 Minutes,
6264
62651387
626601:59:46,653 --> 01:59:48,529
6267will not be presenting an interview...
6268
62691388
627001:59:48,613 --> 01:59:50,614
6271What the hell are you doing?
6272
62731389
627401:59:51,658 --> 01:59:53,868
6275What does it look like I'm doing?
6276I'm editing.
6277
62781390
627901:59:53,952 --> 01:59:56,704
6280No, no, no that. I'm talking
6281about the Associated Press.
6282
62831391
628401:59:57,122 --> 02:00:00,916
6285They got the story that we pulled this
6286interview, and they talked to Mike and I.
6287
62881392
628902:00:01,543 --> 02:00:03,210
6290Did you tell them that we were lying?
6291
62921393
629302:00:03,295 --> 02:00:04,879
6294No! I should have.
6295
62961394
629702:00:04,963 --> 02:00:07,673
6298I told them I disagreed
6299with you, Mike and Kluster
6300
63011395
630202:00:07,757 --> 02:00:10,050
6303that this segment
6304is as good as the original.
6305
63061396
630702:00:10,135 --> 02:00:13,012
6308I'm not lying for you. I'm
6309not gonna shut up for you.
6310
63111397
631202:00:13,096 --> 02:00:15,848
6313- Not on any of it.
6314- Hey, I'm not gonna fire you.
6315
63161398
631702:00:15,932 --> 02:00:18,434
6318Okay? Take a vacation. Now!
6319
63201399
632102:00:22,814 --> 02:00:25,649
6322Lowell? Look, I've decided
6323to preface Sunday's show.
6324
63251400
632602:00:25,734 --> 02:00:28,861
6327I did three minutes on The Evening News.
6328You'll want to see it.
6329
63301401
633102:00:29,696 --> 02:00:32,740
6332- Where are you going?
6333- I've been banished...
6334
63351402
633602:00:32,824 --> 02:00:34,450
6337In lieu of being fired.
6338
63391403
634002:00:35,619 --> 02:00:38,329
6341I took off on Tisch.
6342I took off on Corporate.
6343
63441404
634502:00:38,413 --> 02:00:41,040
6346They'll know they're not going
6347to see everything on Sunday night.
6348
63491405
635002:00:42,334 --> 02:00:45,002
6351I don't know. How does
6352that get Wigand on the air?
6353
63541406
635502:00:46,004 --> 02:00:47,922
6356Do me a favor, will you? Spare me.
6357
63581407
635902:00:48,006 --> 02:00:50,424
6360For God's sake, get in the real world.
6361What do you think?
6362
63631408
636402:00:50,508 --> 02:00:53,761
6365I'm going to resign in protest
6366to force it on the air?
6367
63681409
636902:00:53,845 --> 02:00:57,097
6370The answer's no. I don't plan
6371to spend the end of my days
6372
63731410
637402:00:57,182 --> 02:01:00,059
6375wandering in the wilderness
6376of National Public Radio.
6377
63781411
637902:01:00,143 --> 02:01:02,061
6380That decision I've already made.
6381
63821412
638302:01:04,314 --> 02:01:06,690
6384This Sunday, Wallace
6385will broadcast a report
6386
63871413
638802:01:06,775 --> 02:01:08,108
6389on the tobacco industry,
6390
63911414
639202:01:08,193 --> 02:01:11,028
6393including the tough tactics
6394tobacco companies employ
6395
63961415
639702:01:11,112 --> 02:01:13,781
6398to keep a lid on information
6399that might be damaging.
6400
64011416
640202:01:13,865 --> 02:01:16,784
6403Is there information
6404that people should have
6405
64061417
640702:01:16,868 --> 02:01:18,202
6408that they're not going to have
6409
64101418
641102:01:18,286 --> 02:01:20,955
6412because you're not going
6413to broadcast this interview?
6414
64151419
641602:01:21,039 --> 02:01:22,498
6417Yes.
6418
64191420
642002:01:22,582 --> 02:01:25,376
6421Today, CBS News president Eric Kluster
6422
64231421
642402:01:25,460 --> 02:01:28,128
6425defended the network's decision
6426not to broadcast
6427
64281422
642902:01:28,213 --> 02:01:30,756
6430key portions
6431of the controversial interview.
6432
64331423
643402:01:30,840 --> 02:01:34,134
6435Mr. Kluster said, quote, "The
6436atmosphere is tougher than ever."
6437
64381424
643902:01:34,219 --> 02:01:36,428
6440- Where's the rest?
6441- Dan.
6442
64431425
644402:01:36,513 --> 02:01:38,222
6445Where the hell's the rest?
6446
64471426
644802:01:38,306 --> 02:01:40,307
6449Nebraska football fans
6450voiced their criticism...
6451
64521427
645302:01:40,392 --> 02:01:41,725
6454You cut it!
6455
64561428
645702:01:41,810 --> 02:01:43,769
6458Coming up in Bernard Goldberg's America.
6459
64601429
646102:01:43,853 --> 02:01:46,814
6462- You cut the guts out of what I said!
6463- It was a time consideration...
6464
64651430
646602:01:46,898 --> 02:01:50,359
6467Time? Bullshit! You corporate lackey.
6468
64691431
647002:01:50,443 --> 02:01:52,319
6471Who told you your incompetent
6472little fingers
6473
64741432
647502:01:52,404 --> 02:01:54,363
6476have the requisite skills to edit me?
6477
64781433
647902:01:54,447 --> 02:01:57,157
6480I'm trying to Band-Aid a situation
6481here, and you're too dim...
6482
64831434
648402:01:57,242 --> 02:01:59,535
6485Mike. Mike. Mike.
6486
64871435
648802:01:59,619 --> 02:02:02,246
6489"Mike"? "Mike"!
6490
64911436
649202:02:03,707 --> 02:02:05,499
6493Try "Mr. Wallace."
6494
64951437
649602:02:06,084 --> 02:02:07,501
6497We work in the same corporation,
6498
64991438
650002:02:07,585 --> 02:02:09,586
6501doesn't mean we work
6502in the same profession.
6503
65041439
650502:02:09,671 --> 02:02:12,131
6506Now, now what are you going to do now?
6507You going to finesse me?
6508
65091440
651002:02:12,215 --> 02:02:16,552
6511Lawyer me some more? I've been in this
6512profession 50 fucking years!
6513
65141441
651502:02:16,636 --> 02:02:19,805
6516You and the people you work
6517for are destroying the most respected,
6518
65191442
652002:02:19,889 --> 02:02:22,599
6521the highest rated, the most profitable
6522show on this network.
6523
65241443
652502:02:38,616 --> 02:02:42,369
6526Here. These are their leads,
6527their sources.
6528
65291444
653002:02:42,454 --> 02:02:45,497
6531- I want you to have your reporters...
6532- Suein Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
6533
65341445
653502:02:45,582 --> 02:02:47,708
6536Have them make their own calls.
6537
65381446
653902:02:47,792 --> 02:02:49,626
6540They'll find that these sources
6541have a different story
6542
65431447
654402:02:49,711 --> 02:02:51,336
6545than the one that's in the dossier.
6546
65471448
654802:02:53,631 --> 02:02:55,549
6549Push the deadline, Charlie.
6550
65511449
655202:03:00,805 --> 02:03:04,475
6553I'll push it for a week. I want
6554Milo and Suein to go through it.
6555
65561450
655702:03:19,657 --> 02:03:21,700
6558What do you want to buy him for a gift?
6559
65601451
656102:03:21,951 --> 02:03:25,621
6562Mmm, he's into kind
6563of little cars that...
6564
65651452
656602:03:25,955 --> 02:03:27,915
6567- That remote control thing?
6568- Yeah.
6569
65701453
657102:03:27,999 --> 02:03:30,250
6572All right. We'll go do that tomorrow.
6573
65741454
657502:03:30,335 --> 02:03:34,463
6576The 63-36 vote was three shy
6577of the two-thirds needed to pass...
6578
65791455
658002:03:34,547 --> 02:03:37,424
6581- Mom. There's Dad.
6582- Yes?
6583
65841456
658502:03:37,509 --> 02:03:40,511
6586- On the TV.
6587- ...dating back to 1986.
6588
65891457
659002:03:40,595 --> 02:03:42,763
6591The most recent trouble
6592for Wigand occurred here...
6593
65941458
659502:03:42,847 --> 02:03:44,932
6596And in local news, WLKO, Louisville,
6597
65981459
659902:03:45,016 --> 02:03:47,768
6600has gained access to a 500-page dossier
6601
66021460
660302:03:47,852 --> 02:03:50,562
6604on former Brown & Williamson
6605research head, Jeffrey Wigand,
6606
66071461
660802:03:50,647 --> 02:03:54,316
6609detailing charges of shoplifting
6610and failing to pay child support.
6611
66121462
661302:03:54,400 --> 02:03:56,401
6614Wigand is currently teaching
6615chemistry and Japanese
6616
66171463
661802:03:56,486 --> 02:03:58,320
6619at the duPont Manual High School.
6620
66211464
662202:03:58,404 --> 02:03:59,905
6623Maria.
6624
66251465
662602:04:21,886 --> 02:04:24,429
6627Thousands ofdocuments
6628from inside the tobacco industry
6629
66301466
663102:04:24,514 --> 02:04:26,473
6632have surfaced over the past year.
6633
66341467
663502:04:26,558 --> 02:04:28,559
6636Documents that appear to confirm
6637
66381468
663902:04:28,643 --> 02:04:30,686
6640what a former US surgeon general
6641
66421469
664302:04:30,770 --> 02:04:34,523
6644and the current head of the Food and Drug
6645Administration have been saying.
6646
66471470
664802:04:35,150 --> 02:04:37,484
6649We learned of a tobacco
6650insider who could tell us
6651
66521471
665302:04:37,569 --> 02:04:40,988
6654whether or not the tobacco industry
6655has been leveling with the public.
6656
66571472
665802:04:41,072 --> 02:04:43,157
6659That insider was formerly
6660
66611473
666202:04:43,241 --> 02:04:46,368
6663a highly-placed executive
6664with a tobacco company.
6665
66661474
666702:04:46,452 --> 02:04:50,164
6668But we cannot broadcast what critical
6669information about tobacco,
6670
66711475
667202:04:50,248 --> 02:04:53,667
6673addiction and public health
6674he might be able to offer.
6675
66761476
667702:04:53,751 --> 02:04:57,588
6678Why? Because he had to sign
6679a confidentiality agreement
6680
66811477
668202:04:57,672 --> 02:04:59,882
6683with the tobacco company he worked for.
6684
66851478
668602:04:59,966 --> 02:05:03,385
6687The management of CBS has told us
6688
66891479
669002:05:03,469 --> 02:05:05,554
6691that knowing he had that agreement,
6692
66931480
669402:05:05,638 --> 02:05:08,098
6695if we were to broadcast
6696an interview with him,
6697
66981481
669902:05:08,183 --> 02:05:12,144
6700CBS could be faced
6701with a multi-billion dollar lawsuit.
6702
67031482
670402:05:12,228 --> 02:05:15,898
6705The fact is, we are not allowed
6706even to mention his name
6707
67081483
670902:05:15,982 --> 02:05:18,525
6710or the name of the company he worked for.
6711
67121484
671302:05:18,610 --> 02:05:22,946
6714And, of course, we cannot
6715show you his face.
6716
67171485
671802:05:23,031 --> 02:05:25,032
6719And your confidentiality
6720agreement with...
6721
67221486
672302:05:26,284 --> 02:05:28,035
6724- ...is still in force?
6725- Yes, it is.
6726
67271487
672802:05:28,786 --> 02:05:32,206
6729So what are they gonna do? Sue
6730you for making this appearance?
6731
67321488
673302:05:32,290 --> 02:05:34,374
6734I would bet on it.
6735
67361489
673702:05:34,459 --> 02:05:37,211
6738The former executive has
6739reason to bet on being sued,
6740
67411490
674202:05:37,295 --> 02:05:39,129
6743for major cigarette manufacturers...
6744
67451491
674602:06:00,818 --> 02:06:02,653
6747Yeah.
6748
67491492
675002:06:02,737 --> 02:06:04,905
6751You disappeared on me.
6752
67531493
675402:06:04,989 --> 02:06:07,491
6755- How long you staying?
6756- I disappeared on you?
6757
67581494
675902:06:08,660 --> 02:06:10,702
6760All right. What did you think?
6761
67621495
676302:06:12,038 --> 02:06:14,164
6764I think it was a disgrace.
6765
67661496
676702:06:38,273 --> 02:06:42,025
6768- Still no answer.
6769- Get me the manager's office.
6770
67711497
677202:06:43,027 --> 02:06:45,320
6773David. David, you've got
6774a call on line four.
6775
67761498
677702:06:45,405 --> 02:06:47,322
6778I think you better take it.
6779
67801499
678102:06:48,950 --> 02:06:50,492
6782This is David McDougal.
6783How can I help you?
6784
67851500
678602:06:50,576 --> 02:06:52,953
6787Mr. McDougal, my name is Lowell Bergman.
6788
67891501
679002:06:53,037 --> 02:06:54,705
6791I'm a producer for 60 Minutes.
6792
67931502
679402:06:55,164 --> 02:06:59,084
6795I'm concerned for a friend of mine
6796who's staying at your hotel right now.
6797
67981503
679902:07:06,551 --> 02:07:11,138
6800Mr. Wigand?
6801
68021504
680302:07:16,936 --> 02:07:19,313
6804I think I need to call the police.
6805He won't respond.
6806
68071505
680802:07:19,397 --> 02:07:22,441
6809No, no, don't call the police. Just
6810tell him I'm on the phone with you.
6811
68121506
681302:07:22,525 --> 02:07:24,985
6814My name is Lowell Bergman.
6815Just tell him that.
6816
68171507
681802:07:25,278 --> 02:07:29,156
6819Mr. Wigand, Mr. Bergman
6820is on the telephone.
6821
68221508
682302:07:30,783 --> 02:07:32,326
6824Did he hear you?
6825
68261509
682702:07:32,410 --> 02:07:34,745
6828You're breaking up. I can't hear you.
6829
68301510
683102:07:35,246 --> 02:07:36,830
6832What about now?
6833
68341511
683502:07:36,914 --> 02:07:39,458
6836- What?
6837- Hello? Can you hear me now?
6838
68391512
684002:08:47,610 --> 02:08:51,321
6841- What's happening?
6842- He doesn't seem to be listening.
6843
68441513
684502:08:51,406 --> 02:08:54,658
6846All right. Now listen to me.
6847I want you to tell him,
6848
68491514
685002:08:54,742 --> 02:08:57,744
6851in these words, "Get
6852on the fucking phone."
6853
68541515
685502:08:58,621 --> 02:09:00,163
6856I can't say that.
6857
68581516
685902:09:00,248 --> 02:09:02,791
6860No, you can. Tell him to get
6861on the fucking phone!
6862
68631517
686402:09:03,167 --> 02:09:06,002
6865He told me to tell you
6866to get on the fucking phone!
6867
68681518
686902:09:12,385 --> 02:09:14,845
6870You manipulated me into this.
6871
68721519
687302:09:14,929 --> 02:09:17,055
6874- That's bullshit, Jeff.
6875- You greased the rails.
6876
68771520
687802:09:17,140 --> 02:09:21,435
6879I greased the rails for a guy who wanted
6880to say "yes." I helped him to say "yes."
6881
68821521
688302:09:21,519 --> 02:09:23,812
6884That's all. You're not a robot, Jeff.
6885
68861522
688702:09:23,896 --> 02:09:25,897
6888All right? You got a mind
6889of your own, don't you?
6890
68911523
689202:09:25,982 --> 02:09:26,940
6893"Up to you, Jeffrey.
6894
68951524
689602:09:27,024 --> 02:09:29,109
6897"That's the power you have, Jeffrey.
6898
68991525
690002:09:29,193 --> 02:09:31,778
6901"Vital inside information
6902the American public need to know."
6903
69041526
690502:09:31,863 --> 02:09:35,323
6906Lowell Bergman, the hotshot who never
6907met a source he couldn't turn around.
6908
69091527
691002:09:35,408 --> 02:09:37,659
6911I fought for you,
6912and I still fight for you!
6913
69141528
691502:09:37,743 --> 02:09:40,579
6916You fought for me? You manipulated me
6917
69181529
691902:09:40,663 --> 02:09:43,957
6920into where I am now, staring
6921at the Brown & Williamson building!
6922
69231530
692402:09:44,041 --> 02:09:46,835
6925It's all dark except the tenth floor.
6926That's the legal department.
6927
69281531
692902:09:46,919 --> 02:09:49,045
6930That's where they fuck with my life.
6931
69321532
693302:09:54,093 --> 02:09:55,469
6934Jeffrey, where you going with this?
6935
69361533
693702:09:57,972 --> 02:09:59,556
6938So, where you going?
6939
69401534
694102:10:04,270 --> 02:10:09,024
6942You are important to a lot
6943of people, Jeffrey.
6944
69451535
694602:10:10,193 --> 02:10:11,818
6947You think about that.
6948
69491536
695002:10:13,029 --> 02:10:14,946
6951You think about them.
6952
69531537
695402:10:28,294 --> 02:10:30,378
6955I'm running out of heroes, man.
6956
69571538
695802:10:31,797 --> 02:10:33,924
6959Guys like you are in short supply.
6960
69611539
696202:10:39,972 --> 02:10:41,932
6963Yeah, guys like you, too.
6964
69651540
696602:10:47,355 --> 02:10:49,439
6967Where are you, anyway?
6968
69691541
697002:10:49,524 --> 02:10:52,442
6971I'm on a leave of absence.
6972Forced vacation.
6973
69741542
697502:10:55,655 --> 02:10:57,989
6976- You try and have a good time.
6977- Yeah.
6978
69791543
698002:10:58,824 --> 02:11:00,700
6981Yeah, I will.
6982
69831544
698402:11:15,675 --> 02:11:17,551
6985I'm Lowell Bergman. I'm from 60 Minutes.
6986
69871545
698802:11:17,635 --> 02:11:19,678
6989You know, you take the 60
6990Minutes out of that sentence,
6991
69921546
699302:11:19,762 --> 02:11:21,596
6994nobody returns your phone calls.
6995
69961547
699702:11:22,306 --> 02:11:25,308
6998Maybe Wigand's right. Maybe I'm hooked.
6999
70001548
700102:11:27,395 --> 02:11:29,229
7002What am I hooked on?
7003
70041549
700502:11:29,313 --> 02:11:31,606
7006The rush of 60 Minutes?
7007
70081550
700902:11:32,441 --> 02:11:35,735
7010What the hell for? "Infotainment"!
7011
70121551
701302:11:35,820 --> 02:11:37,946
7014It's so fucking useless, all of it.
7015
70161552
701702:11:38,030 --> 02:11:41,616
7018So it's a big country with a free press.
7019You can go and work somewhere else.
7020
70211553
702202:11:41,701 --> 02:11:43,952
7023"Free press"? The press is free.
7024
70251554
702602:11:44,036 --> 02:11:47,622
7027For anyone who owns one. Larry
7028Tisch has a free press.
7029
70301555
703102:11:47,707 --> 02:11:50,000
7032- Get some perspective, Lowell.
7033- I got perspective.
7034
70351556
703602:11:50,084 --> 02:11:52,085
7037No, you do not.
7038
70391557
704002:11:53,504 --> 02:11:55,964
7041From my perspective,
7042
70431558
704402:11:56,048 --> 02:11:59,759
7045what's been going on and what-
7046I've been doing is ridiculous.
7047
70481559
704902:11:59,844 --> 02:12:02,220
7050- It's half-measures.
7051- You're not listening.
7052
70531560
705402:12:08,561 --> 02:12:11,563
7055Really know what you're going
7056to do before you do it.
7057
70581561
705902:12:53,397 --> 02:12:55,482
7060I've got Richard Scruggs on the phone.
7061
70621562
706302:12:55,566 --> 02:12:57,400
7064Patch him through.
7065
70661563
706702:12:58,611 --> 02:13:00,737
7068Well, Lowell, you are not
7069gonna believe this.
7070
70711564
707202:13:01,614 --> 02:13:05,742
7073The governor of Mississippi
7074is suing his own attorney general
7075
70761565
707702:13:05,826 --> 02:13:08,495
7078to abandon litigation
7079against Big Tobacco.
7080
70811566
708202:13:09,664 --> 02:13:11,331
7083Oh, good.
7084
70851567
708602:13:11,415 --> 02:13:14,334
7087But now that the version
7088without Jeff ran,
7089
70901568
709102:13:14,418 --> 02:13:16,836
7092what's the chance of getting
7093his interview on the air?
7094
70951569
709602:13:19,340 --> 02:13:21,341
7097- Hello?
7098- Yeah, I'm here.
7099
71001570
710102:13:21,425 --> 02:13:23,927
7102What chance is there of getting
7103Jeff's interview on the air?
7104
71051571
710602:13:24,011 --> 02:13:25,595
7107Less than great.
7108
71091572
711002:13:30,434 --> 02:13:32,185
7111I'd be lying to you if I did not tell you
7112
71131573
711402:13:32,269 --> 02:13:35,021
7115how important it was in the court
7116of public opinion.
7117
71181574
711902:13:36,315 --> 02:13:38,983
7120I'd be lying to you
7121if I didn't tell you...
7122
71231575
712402:13:39,068 --> 02:13:40,860
7125I'm about out of moves, Dick.
7126
71271576
712802:13:44,949 --> 02:13:46,616
7129All right. See ya.
7130
71311577
713202:14:10,099 --> 02:14:11,516
7133Hi.
7134
71351578
713602:14:13,602 --> 02:14:17,480
7137So, what are you folks
7138doing here in Lincoln?
7139
71401579
714102:14:18,941 --> 02:14:21,985
7142- Geology survey.
7143- Geology?
7144
71451580
714602:14:23,028 --> 02:14:25,488
7147Yeah? Really?
7148
71491581
715002:14:26,157 --> 02:14:28,116
7151How about you?
7152
71531582
715402:14:29,827 --> 02:14:31,369
7155I work for CBS News.
7156
71571583
715802:14:32,997 --> 02:14:34,330
7159Oh, yeah?
7160
71611584
716202:15:02,067 --> 02:15:04,444
7163Just ran into two of your geologists.
7164
71651585
716602:15:04,528 --> 02:15:07,113
7167Geologists whose hands
7168aren't all chewed up.
7169
71701586
717102:15:07,198 --> 02:15:11,326
7172Lowell, do not screw this up.
7173
71741587
717502:15:11,410 --> 02:15:13,828
7176We are a week away from an arrest.
7177
71781588
717902:15:13,913 --> 02:15:16,080
7180So I'll hold it. And?
7181
71821589
718302:15:16,165 --> 02:15:18,750
7184We'll give you a heads-up
7185before we launch.
7186
71871590
718802:15:18,834 --> 02:15:20,585
7189- How long?
7190- Three hours.
7191
71921591
719302:15:20,669 --> 02:15:22,003
7194You got a deal.
7195
71961592
719702:15:38,103 --> 02:15:41,773
7198Like the testimony before Congress
7199of Dr. Wigand's former boss,
7200
72011593
720202:15:41,857 --> 02:15:45,485
7203Brown & Williamson's chief executive
7204officer, Thomas Sandefur.
7205
72061594
720702:15:45,569 --> 02:15:48,154
7208I believe that nicotine is not addictive.
7209
72101595
721102:15:48,239 --> 02:15:50,406
7212I believe Mr. Sandefur perjured himself
7213
72141596
721502:15:50,533 --> 02:15:52,408
7216because I watched those
7217testimonies very carefully.
7218
72191597
722002:15:52,493 --> 02:15:54,035
7221AII of us did.
7222
72231598
722402:15:54,119 --> 02:15:56,454
7225I mean, there was this
7226whole line of people,
7227
72281599
722902:15:56,539 --> 02:15:59,123
7230whole line of CEOs
7231up there, all swearing.
7232
72331600
723402:15:59,208 --> 02:16:02,168
7235Part of the reason I'm
7236here is that I felt
7237
72381601
723902:16:02,253 --> 02:16:04,420
7240that their representation...
7241
72421602
724302:16:33,909 --> 02:16:35,827
7244...more rapidly absorbed in the lung
7245
72461603
724702:16:35,911 --> 02:16:38,037
7248and therefore affect the brain
7249and central nervous system.
7250
72511604
725202:17:03,230 --> 02:17:05,106
7253- Hello?
7254- Jim, it's Lowell.
7255
72561605
725702:17:05,190 --> 02:17:07,901
7258- Hey, where are you?
7259- Remember that night at PJ's?
7260
72611606
726202:17:07,985 --> 02:17:10,445
7263You asked me if we were sitting
7264on something explosive.
7265
72661607
726702:17:10,529 --> 02:17:12,071
7268Well, we're not sitting on it.
7269
72701608
727102:17:12,156 --> 02:17:15,909
7272CBS Corporate leaned on CBS News,
7273which yanked an interview we did
7274
72751609
727602:17:15,993 --> 02:17:19,829
7277with a top-ranking tobacco
7278scientist, corporate officer.
7279
72801610
728102:17:19,914 --> 02:17:22,165
7282They're trying to close down the story.
7283
72841611
728502:17:22,249 --> 02:17:25,543
7286You mean, 60 Minutes
7287is letting CBS Corporate
7288
72891612
729002:17:25,628 --> 02:17:27,754
7291decide what is or is not news?
7292
72931613
729402:17:27,838 --> 02:17:30,423
7295What's Wallace think about this?
7296Or Hewitt, or...
7297
72981614
729902:17:30,507 --> 02:17:32,634
7300How prominent? What kind of placement?
7301
73021615
730302:17:32,968 --> 02:17:36,512
7304Oh, come on, Lowell. This is The
7305New York Times. I don't know.
7306
73071616
730802:17:36,597 --> 02:17:40,266
7309Well, until you do, all I can tell
7310you is what you already know.
7311
73121617
731302:17:40,351 --> 02:17:42,352
7314They will not air an interview.
7315
73161618
731702:17:43,187 --> 02:17:44,729
7318Call me back in 10.
7319
73201619
732102:17:52,863 --> 02:17:55,114
7322- Hello?
7323- Debbie, it's me.
7324
73251620
732602:17:55,199 --> 02:17:57,617
7327Hi. What time is it?
7328
73291621
733002:17:57,701 --> 02:17:58,952
7331Oh, it's late.
7332
73331622
733402:17:59,036 --> 02:18:01,621
7335That I know. When are you coming back?
7336
73371623
733802:18:01,705 --> 02:18:04,791
7339I can't get out of here till mid-morning.
7340I'll be in tomorrow night.
7341
73421624
734302:18:04,875 --> 02:18:08,002
7344Listen, could you call a number for me?
7345It's in Mississippi.
7346
73471625
734802:18:08,462 --> 02:18:10,380
7349Okay. Hold on a second.
7350
73511626
735202:18:13,425 --> 02:18:14,717
7353What is it?
7354
73551627
735602:18:20,557 --> 02:18:22,475
7357- Hello?
7358- It's Lowell.
7359
73601628
736102:18:22,559 --> 02:18:26,646
7362All right, Lowell. Page one.
7363Editorial's interested. Let's talk.
7364
73651629
736602:18:26,730 --> 02:18:30,316
7367Here's how it works. You ask me questions.
7368I tell you if you're wrong.
7369
73701630
737102:18:31,610 --> 02:18:34,862
7372- Lowell, you sure you want to do this?
7373- Why?
7374
73751631
737602:18:35,489 --> 02:18:38,574
7377Hey, it doesn't work,
7378you've burned your bridges, man.
7379
73801632
738102:18:39,118 --> 02:18:40,410
7382You ready?
7383
73841633
738502:18:41,245 --> 02:18:43,830
7386Okay. About this whistle-blower,
7387
73881634
738902:18:43,914 --> 02:18:46,624
7390did Mike and Don go
7391along with the corporate decision?
7392
73931635
739402:18:48,752 --> 02:18:52,588
7395- Lowell?
7396- Did I tell you you were wrong?
7397
73981636
739902:18:53,882 --> 02:18:57,719
7400No. I'm assuming the cave-in begins
7401
74021637
740302:18:57,803 --> 02:19:00,054
7404with the threat of litigation
7405from Big Tobacco.
7406
74071638
740802:19:00,139 --> 02:19:01,764
7409Are we talking...
7410
74111639
741202:19:02,641 --> 02:19:04,809
7413Are we talking Brown & Williamson here?
7414
74151640
741602:19:38,302 --> 02:19:40,344
7417Did I get you up?
7418
74191641
742002:19:40,637 --> 02:19:44,724
7421No, I usually sit around my hotel room
7422dressed like this at 5:30 in the morning,
7423
74241642
742502:19:44,808 --> 02:19:46,726
7426sleepy look on my face.
7427
74281643
742902:19:48,687 --> 02:19:50,563
7430How many shows have we done? Huh?
7431
74321644
743302:19:50,647 --> 02:19:52,899
7434- Come on. How many?
7435- Oh, lots.
7436
74371645
743802:19:52,983 --> 02:19:54,150
7439That's right.
7440
74411646
744202:19:56,820 --> 02:19:59,238
7443But in all that time, Mike,
7444
74451647
744602:19:59,323 --> 02:20:02,116
7447did you ever get off a plane,
7448walk into a room
7449
74501648
745102:20:02,201 --> 02:20:05,495
7452and find that a source
7453for a story changed his mind?
7454
74551649
745602:20:07,539 --> 02:20:09,749
7457Lost his heart? Walked out on us?
7458
74591650
746002:20:09,833 --> 02:20:12,627
7461Not one fucking time. You wanna know why?
7462
74631651
746402:20:13,087 --> 02:20:15,254
7465I see a rhetorical
7466question on the horizon.
7467
74681652
746902:20:15,339 --> 02:20:17,215
7470I'm gonna tell you why.
7471
74721653
747302:20:17,299 --> 02:20:20,760
7474Because when I tell someone I'm
7475gonna do something, I deliver.
7476
74771654
747802:20:21,303 --> 02:20:25,098
7479Oh, how fortunate I am to have
7480Lowell Bergman's moral tutelage
7481
74821655
748302:20:25,182 --> 02:20:27,892
7484to point me down the shining
7485path, to show me the way.
7486
74871656
748802:20:27,976 --> 02:20:30,103
7489- Give me a break.
7490- You give me a break.
7491
74921657
749302:20:30,187 --> 02:20:33,314
7494I never left a source
7495hung out to dry ever.
7496
74971658
749802:20:33,398 --> 02:20:36,317
7499Abandoned. Not till right fucking now.
7500
75011659
750202:20:36,944 --> 02:20:40,154
7503When I came on this job,
7504I came with my word intact.
7505
75061660
750702:20:40,239 --> 02:20:43,616
7508I'm gonna leave with my word intact.
7509Fuck the rules of the game!
7510
75111661
751202:20:44,201 --> 02:20:46,327
7513Hell, you're supposed to know me, Mike.
7514
75151662
751602:20:46,411 --> 02:20:48,246
7517What the hell did you expect?
7518
75191663
752002:20:48,330 --> 02:20:50,498
7521You expect me to lie down?
7522
75231664
752402:20:50,999 --> 02:20:53,835
7525Back off? Or get over it?
7526
75271665
752802:20:53,919 --> 02:20:58,381
7529In the real world, when you get to where
7530I am, there are other considerations.
7531
75321666
753302:20:58,465 --> 02:21:01,592
7534Like what? Corporate responsibility?
7535
75361667
753702:21:01,677 --> 02:21:03,594
7538What, are we talking celebrity here?
7539
75401668
754102:21:03,679 --> 02:21:07,640
7542I'm not talking about celebrity,
7543vanity, CBS. I'm...
7544
75451669
754602:21:09,184 --> 02:21:10,309
7547I'm talking about
7548
75491670
755002:21:10,394 --> 02:21:13,062
7551when you're nearer the end
7552of your life than the beginning.
7553
75541671
755502:21:14,231 --> 02:21:17,024
7556And what do you think you
7557think about then? The future?
7558
75591672
756002:21:18,026 --> 02:21:20,570
7561"In the future, I'm gonna
7562do this, become that"?
7563
75641673
756502:21:20,654 --> 02:21:22,822
7566What future? No.
7567
75681674
756902:21:22,906 --> 02:21:24,490
7570What you think is...
7571
75721675
757302:21:25,909 --> 02:21:28,995
7574"How will I be regarded in the end,
7575
75761676
757702:21:29,079 --> 02:21:30,913
7578"after I'm gone?"
7579
75801677
758102:21:32,749 --> 02:21:35,626
7582Oh, along the way, I suppose
7583I made some minor impact.
7584
75851678
758602:21:36,044 --> 02:21:40,339
7587I did Irangate, the Ayatollah, Malcolm X,
7588
75891679
759002:21:40,424 --> 02:21:43,342
7591Martin Luther King,
7592Saddam, Sadat, etc., etc.
7593
75941680
759502:21:43,427 --> 02:21:48,806
7596I showed them thieves in suits.
7597I spent a lifetime building all that.
7598
75991681
760002:21:51,685 --> 02:21:55,438
7601But history only remembers
7602most what you did last.
7603
76041682
760502:21:57,024 --> 02:22:00,151
7606And should that be fronting a segment
7607
76081683
760902:22:00,235 --> 02:22:03,988
7610that allowed a tobacco giant
7611to crash this network...
7612
76131684
761402:22:10,078 --> 02:22:14,582
7615Does it give someone
7616at my time of life pause?
7617
76181685
761902:22:18,128 --> 02:22:19,462
7620Yeah.
7621
76221686
762302:22:27,095 --> 02:22:28,554
7624Mike,
7625
76261687
762702:22:34,811 --> 02:22:37,897
7628You and I have been doing this
7629
76301688
763102:22:37,981 --> 02:22:41,067
7632together for 14 years.
7633
76341689
763502:22:43,570 --> 02:22:45,571
7636This is today's New York Times.
7637
76381690
763902:22:46,323 --> 02:22:48,741
7640In it is the whole sordid story
7641
76421691
764302:22:48,825 --> 02:22:50,910
7644of what went on inside our shop.
7645
76461692
764702:22:52,496 --> 02:22:55,831
7648And in the editorial, it accuses us
7649
76501693
765102:22:57,125 --> 02:23:00,086
7652of betraying the legacy of Edward R.
7653Murrow.
7654
76551694
765602:23:25,362 --> 02:23:28,030
7657They conclude most of it seems
7658pretty unsubstantiated.
7659
76601695
766102:23:37,165 --> 02:23:39,083
7662You're full of shit, John.
7663
76641696
766502:23:50,721 --> 02:23:51,887
7666Yeah.
7667
76681697
766902:23:51,972 --> 02:23:54,515
7670Front page. There's a picture of Wigand.
7671
76721698
767302:23:54,599 --> 02:23:56,475
7674Article's entitled, "Getting Personal."
7675
76761699
767702:23:56,560 --> 02:23:58,728
7678Byline to Suein Hwang and Milo Geyelin.
7679
76801700
768102:23:58,812 --> 02:24:00,563
7682Wait. Hold on a second, Lowell.
7683
76841701
768502:24:02,232 --> 02:24:03,357
7686Yeah.
7687
76881702
768902:24:07,612 --> 02:24:10,072
7690Yeah, I'll see if I can find him.
7691
76921703
769302:24:10,157 --> 02:24:13,284
7694Yeah, hold on. Don's looking for you.
7695
76961704
769702:24:13,744 --> 02:24:15,077
7698Good.
7699
77001705
770102:24:15,162 --> 02:24:17,079
7702The subheading is "Brown & Williamson
7703
77041706
770502:24:17,164 --> 02:24:20,082
7706"has a 500-page dossier
7707attacking chief critic."
7708
77091707
771002:24:20,167 --> 02:24:22,668
7711It quotes Richard Scruggs
7712calling it the worst kind
7713
77141708
771502:24:22,753 --> 02:24:26,088
7716of an organized smear campaign
7717against a whistle-blower.
7718
77191709
772002:24:26,173 --> 02:24:27,548
7721"A close look at the file
7722
77231710
772402:24:27,632 --> 02:24:29,633
7725"and independent research
7726by this newspaper
7727
77281711
772902:24:29,718 --> 02:24:33,012
7730"into its key claim indicates
7731that many of the serious allegations
7732
77331712
773402:24:33,096 --> 02:24:37,767
7735"against Mr. Wigand are backed
7736by scant or contradictory evidence."
7737
77381713
773902:24:57,788 --> 02:25:00,247
7740This news division has been vilified
7741
77421714
774302:25:00,332 --> 02:25:03,417
7744in The New York Times,
7745in print, on television
7746
77471715
774802:25:03,502 --> 02:25:05,086
7749for caving to corporate interests.
7750
77511716
775202:25:05,170 --> 02:25:06,712
7753The New York Times ran a blow-by-blow
7754
77551717
775602:25:06,797 --> 02:25:09,131
7757of what we talked
7758about behind closed doors.
7759
77601718
776102:25:09,216 --> 02:25:12,176
7762- You fucked us!
7763- No! You fucked you!
7764
77651719
776602:25:12,260 --> 02:25:14,053
7767Don't invert stuff.
7768
77691720
777002:25:14,137 --> 02:25:17,139
7771Big Tobacco tried to smear Wigand.
7772You bought it.
7773
77741721
777502:25:17,224 --> 02:25:19,058
7776The Wall Street Journal, here,
7777
77781722
777902:25:19,142 --> 02:25:22,895
7780not exactly a bastion
7781of anti-capitalist sentiment,
7782
77831723
778402:25:22,979 --> 02:25:25,648
7785refutes Big Tobacco's smear campaign
7786
77871724
778802:25:25,732 --> 02:25:28,859
7789as the lowest form
7790of character assassination.
7791
77921725
779302:25:28,944 --> 02:25:31,028
7794And now, even now, when every word
7795
77961726
779702:25:31,113 --> 02:25:33,989
7798of what Wigand has said
7799on our show is printed,
7800
78011727
780202:25:34,074 --> 02:25:37,827
7803the entire deposition
7804of his testimony in a court of law
7805
78061728
780702:25:37,911 --> 02:25:39,078
7808in the State of Mississippi,
7809
78101729
781102:25:39,162 --> 02:25:42,164
7812the cat totally out of the bag,
7813
78141730
781502:25:42,874 --> 02:25:44,959
7816you're still standing here debating.
7817
78181731
781902:25:45,752 --> 02:25:49,004
7820Don, what the hell else do you need?
7821
78221732
782302:25:50,173 --> 02:25:52,133
7824Mike, you tell him.
7825
78261733
782702:25:52,217 --> 02:25:53,968
7828You fucked up, Don.
7829
78301734
783102:26:01,351 --> 02:26:04,186
7832It's old news. Stick with me, like always.
7833We'll be okay.
7834
78351735
783602:26:04,271 --> 02:26:06,355
7837These things have
7838a half-life of 15 minutes.
7839
78401736
784102:26:07,566 --> 02:26:11,444
7842No, that's fame. Fame has
7843a 15-minute half-life.
7844
78451737
784602:26:11,528 --> 02:26:13,487
7847Infamy lasts a little longer.
7848
78491738
785002:26:14,364 --> 02:26:18,576
7851We caved. It's foolish.
7852It's simply dead wrong.
7853
78541739
785502:26:19,286 --> 02:26:22,580
7856Now this is what we're going to do.
7857We're going over to Black Rock...
7858
78591740
786002:26:26,418 --> 02:26:30,629
7861Okay? So let's get back to work.
7862Now, what we saw there
7863
78641741
786502:26:30,714 --> 02:26:33,466
7866was two potassium chlorate
7867
78681742
786902:26:33,550 --> 02:26:38,721
7870would yield two potassium
7871chloride, also a solid...
7872
78731743
787402:26:49,024 --> 02:26:52,818
7875They canceled the 6:00. I don't know why.
7876
78771744
787802:26:53,236 --> 02:26:56,989
7879I'm on the 8:10. I should be home 9:30.
7880
78811745
788202:26:57,407 --> 02:26:59,867
7883I'll see you then. I love you. Bye.
7884
78851746
788602:27:14,090 --> 02:27:16,091
7887- Oh. Thanks, Dad.
7888- Thanks.
7889
78901747
789102:27:28,438 --> 02:27:30,439
7892CBS management wouldn't let us broadcast
7893
78941748
789502:27:30,524 --> 02:27:33,859
7896our original story and our interview
7897with Jeffrey Wigand
7898
78991749
790002:27:33,944 --> 02:27:36,529
7901because they were worried
7902about the possibility
7903
79041750
790502:27:36,613 --> 02:27:41,200
7906of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit
7907against us for tortious interference.
7908
79091751
791002:27:41,785 --> 02:27:43,953
7911But now things have changed.
7912
79131752
791402:27:44,037 --> 02:27:46,830
7915What Dr. Wigand told us
7916was that his former...
7917
79181753
791902:28:15,610 --> 02:28:18,779
7920This industry, in my opinion,
7921is an industry
7922
79231754
792402:28:18,863 --> 02:28:22,908
7925that has perpetrated the biggest fraud
7926on the American public in history.
7927
79281755
792902:28:22,993 --> 02:28:24,493
7930They've killed millions
7931and millions of...
7932
79331756
793402:28:48,393 --> 02:28:50,394
7935You wish you hadn't blown the whistle?
7936
79371757
793802:28:51,605 --> 02:28:54,064
7939Yeah, there are times
7940I wish I hadn't done it.
7941
79421758
794302:28:56,067 --> 02:28:59,486
7944There are times I feel
7945compelled to do it.
7946
79471759
794802:29:01,281 --> 02:29:05,993
7949If you'd asked me, would I do it
7950again, do I think it's worth it?
7951
79521760
795302:29:09,748 --> 02:29:11,707
7954Yeah, I think it's worth it.
7955
79561761
795702:29:17,088 --> 02:29:20,549
7958I promised you a three-hour heads up.
7959Here it is.
7960
79611762
796202:29:20,634 --> 02:29:24,136
7963Have a camera crew standing
7964by in Helena, Montana, on Tuesday,
7965
79661763
796702:29:24,220 --> 02:29:25,971
7968and I'll give you
7969a three-hour head start.
7970
79711764
797202:29:26,056 --> 02:29:29,475
7973All right? By the way, that was a hell
7974of a good show tonight.
7975
79761765
797702:29:29,559 --> 02:29:31,435
7978- Thank you, Bill.
7979- Yeah.
7980
79811766
798202:29:50,955 --> 02:29:52,873
7983You won.
7984
79851767
798602:29:54,250 --> 02:29:55,668
7987Yeah.
7988
79891768
799002:29:59,547 --> 02:30:01,465
7991What did I win?
7992
79931769
799402:30:05,095 --> 02:30:08,055
7995Reporting from CBS News world
7996headquarters in New York,
7997
79981770
799902:30:08,139 --> 02:30:09,181
8000good afternoon.
8001
80021771
800302:30:09,265 --> 02:30:12,184
8004There has been a major break in the case
8005of the so-called Unabomber.
8006
80071772
800802:30:12,268 --> 02:30:14,687
8009CBS News has learned
8010that a remote homesite
8011
80121773
801302:30:14,771 --> 02:30:16,730
8014outside of Lincoln, Montana,
8015
80161774
801702:30:16,815 --> 02:30:19,692
8018has been under FBl surveillance
8019for several weeks.
8020
80211775
802202:30:22,112 --> 02:30:23,612
8023Great, Lowell.
8024
80251776
802602:30:32,455 --> 02:30:34,373
8027Thanks for this.
8028
80291777
803002:30:35,250 --> 02:30:39,169
8031You know, we beat everybody.
8032ABC, NBC, CNN.
8033
80341778
803502:30:43,466 --> 02:30:44,883
8036Mike.
8037
80381779
803902:30:52,225 --> 02:30:55,978
8040That Canada story still interest you?
8041
80421780
804302:30:56,563 --> 02:30:58,313
8044Everything interests me.
8045
80461781
804702:31:00,984 --> 02:31:02,484
8048I quit, Mike.
8049
80501782
805102:31:05,613 --> 02:31:07,030
8052Bullshit.
8053
80541783
805502:31:09,033 --> 02:31:12,494
8056Come on. It all worked out.
8057
80581784
805902:31:13,830 --> 02:31:16,081
8060You came out okay in the end.
8061
80621785
806302:31:17,167 --> 02:31:18,542
8064I did?
8065
80661786
806702:31:18,626 --> 02:31:22,087
8068What do I tell a source
8069on the next tough story?
8070
80711787
807202:31:22,172 --> 02:31:25,382
8073"Hang in with us. You'll be fine. Maybe."
8074
80751788
807602:31:25,467 --> 02:31:27,092
8077No.
8078
80791789
808002:31:28,303 --> 02:31:32,681
8081What got broken here doesn't
8082go back together again.
8083
80841790
808502:31:39,189 --> 02:31:40,522
8086So, uh...