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11
200:00:48,887 --> 00:00:53,887
3Subtitles by explosiveskull
4www.OpenSubtitles.org
5
62
700:01:01,437 --> 00:01:04,774
8How long you been
9working on this project, Dan?
10
113
1200:01:04,857 --> 00:01:07,651
13Five years.
14
154
1600:01:07,735 --> 00:01:09,987
17Five, wow.
18
195
2000:01:10,070 --> 00:01:13,115
21Every day? Nights, weekends?
22
236
2400:01:14,617 --> 00:01:16,911
25It’s been very consuming.
26
277
2800:01:19,872 --> 00:01:23,584
29Do you have
30a relationship, Dan? Family?
31
328
3300:01:23,667 --> 00:01:27,129
34Just trying to get
35a better sense of who you are.
36
379
3800:01:27,213 --> 00:01:29,590
39When it started, I was
40seeing someone, but, you know,
41
4210
4300:01:29,673 --> 00:01:32,426
44with the nature of the work
45and the hours...
46
4711
4800:01:32,510 --> 00:01:35,179
49I wasn’t a very good partner.
50
5112
5200:01:39,058 --> 00:01:43,062
53Five years,
54and it could all go away.
55
5613
5700:01:43,145 --> 00:01:46,106
58Just vanish in the face
59of these allegations.
60
6114
6200:01:46,190 --> 00:01:48,025
63I can certainly imagine
64
6515
6600:01:48,108 --> 00:01:49,944
67an ambitious young man
68like yourself
69
7016
7100:01:50,027 --> 00:01:51,862
72spends years
73with his head buried
74
7517
7600:01:51,946 --> 00:01:54,156
77in some terrible spectacle,
78
7918
8000:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,450
81gets frustrated
82with the process,
83
8419
8500:01:56,534 --> 00:01:58,828
86sees an opportunity
87to get the truth out faster,
88
8920
9000:01:58,911 --> 00:02:00,204
91maybe crosses a line.
92
9321
9400:02:00,287 --> 00:02:01,831
95I’m assuming this is
96the most important thing
97
9822
9900:02:01,914 --> 00:02:03,624
100- you’ve ever been a part of.
101- I didn’t do it.
102
10323
10400:02:03,707 --> 00:02:05,459
105Or I can see
106an equally ambitious senator
107
10824
10900:02:05,543 --> 00:02:06,919
110encouraging you
111to do something.
112
11325
11400:02:07,002 --> 00:02:08,879
115Now would be
116a good time to tell me.
117
11826
11900:02:08,963 --> 00:02:10,965
120That did not happen.
121What I did, I did on my own.
122
12327
12400:02:12,049 --> 00:02:13,259
125I acted alone.
126
12728
12800:02:13,342 --> 00:02:15,010
129You ever sleep, bro?
130
13129
13200:02:15,094 --> 00:02:17,805
133I used to. Got in the way of work.
134
13530
13600:02:17,888 --> 00:02:20,099
137Anything in that bag
138contain the real names
139
14031
14100:02:20,182 --> 00:02:22,309
142of CIA officers,
143assets or partners,
144
14532
14600:02:22,393 --> 00:02:24,687
147or any information
148that would be in violation
149
15033
15100:02:24,770 --> 00:02:27,106
152of the agreement between
153the Central Intelligence Agency
154
15534
15600:02:27,189 --> 00:02:28,691
157and the United States Senate?
158
15935
16000:02:28,774 --> 00:02:31,527
161- Have a good night, Jay.
162- You, too, Dan.
163
16436
16500:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,155
166So, you did steal the document?
167
16837
16900:02:35,239 --> 00:02:37,074
170I did not steal it.
171I relocated it.
172
17338
17400:02:37,157 --> 00:02:38,534
175Everyone has their own words.
176
17739
17800:02:38,617 --> 00:02:40,327
179The language is built
180to choose sides.
181
18240
18300:02:40,411 --> 00:02:42,580
184Now, why did you relocate it?
185
18641
18700:02:44,039 --> 00:02:46,250
188They could send you
189to jail, Dan.
190
19142
19200:02:56,969 --> 00:02:58,971
193I think I should
194start at the beginning.
195
19643
19700:03:40,220 --> 00:03:42,181
198- McDONOUGH: You Dan Jones?
199- Yeah.
200
20144
20200:03:42,264 --> 00:03:43,265
203- Denis McDonough.
204- Hi.
205
20645
20700:03:43,349 --> 00:03:44,350
208Thank you so much
209for meeting me.
210
21146
21200:03:44,433 --> 00:03:46,101
213Come on in, yeah.
214Absolutely.
215
21647
21700:03:46,185 --> 00:03:47,770
218So, thanks for coming in.
219
22048
22100:03:47,853 --> 00:03:49,229
222Uh, tell me your story.
223
22449
22500:03:49,313 --> 00:03:51,148
226My second day of grad school
227was September 11th.
228
22950
23000:03:51,231 --> 00:03:55,194
231I was headed to a lecture,
232and everything just... stopped.
233
23451
23500:03:55,277 --> 00:03:57,947
236The next day, I changed all my
237classes to national security.
238
23952
24000:03:58,030 --> 00:04:00,407
241Good man.
242
24353
24400:04:00,491 --> 00:04:01,825
245So, what’s the long-term plan?
246
24754
24800:04:01,909 --> 00:04:03,619
249Where do you see yourself
250in ten years?
251
25255
25300:04:03,702 --> 00:04:05,037
254Are you running for office?
255
25656
25700:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,622
258Oh, uh, no.
259No politics for me.
260
26157
26200:04:06,705 --> 00:04:08,332
263I think I’d be more effective
264behind the scenes,
265
26658
26700:04:08,415 --> 00:04:10,084
268somewhere I can
269really make a difference.
270
27159
27200:04:10,167 --> 00:04:11,543
273So, what about before Harvard?
274
27560
27600:04:11,627 --> 00:04:13,754
277Uh, what’d you fill up
278your days with then?
279
28061
28100:04:13,837 --> 00:04:16,340
282Teach For America
283for three years in Baltimore.
284
28562
28600:04:16,423 --> 00:04:17,549
287Seventh-graders.
288
28963
29000:04:17,633 --> 00:04:19,343
291I read that you taught
292high school Spanish
293
29464
29500:04:19,426 --> 00:04:20,928
296in Saint Paul, Minnesota,
297after college?
298
29965
30000:04:21,011 --> 00:04:22,554
301And LBJ’s first job
302was teaching
303
30466
30500:04:22,638 --> 00:04:24,640
306at the Mexican school
307in South Texas.
308
30967
31000:04:24,723 --> 00:04:26,266
311Knowing how
312to deal with children
313
31468
31500:04:26,350 --> 00:04:28,227
316is a highly useful skill
317when working on the Hill.
318
31969
32000:04:29,770 --> 00:04:32,356
321But from my perspective
322as Senate staff,
323
32470
32500:04:32,439 --> 00:04:36,235
326I would wait until
327things turn around up here.
328
32971
33000:04:36,318 --> 00:04:38,862
331I think Senator Daschle
332would say the same thing.
333
33472
33500:04:38,946 --> 00:04:41,824
336Go get some real-world
337experience in counterterrorism,
338
33973
34000:04:41,907 --> 00:04:44,243
341in... foreign policy.
342
34374
34400:04:44,326 --> 00:04:46,453
345Try the CIA. Try FBI.
346
34775
34800:04:46,537 --> 00:04:49,748
349Have them teach you what they
350don’t teach you in a classroom.
351
35276
35300:04:49,832 --> 00:04:51,625
354Then you can come back here, and...
355
35677
35700:04:51,709 --> 00:04:54,253
358help us fix all the things that
359Bush and Cheney are breaking.
360
36178
36200:04:54,336 --> 00:04:56,171
363McDonough.
364
36579
36600:04:56,255 --> 00:04:58,507
367Yes, Senator, uh, one second.
368
36980
37000:04:58,590 --> 00:05:00,676
371The boss. Here.
372
37381
37400:05:00,759 --> 00:05:02,094
375Keep in touch, huh?
376
37782
37800:05:02,177 --> 00:05:04,722
379- Thank you very much for your time.
380- Absolutely.
381
38283
38300:05:04,805 --> 00:05:06,724
384McDONOUGH: I do not have
385that information right now,
386
38784
38800:05:06,807 --> 00:05:09,268
389but I can certainly get that
390for you in the next 15.
391
39285
39300:05:09,351 --> 00:05:11,228
394Yeah.
395
39686
39700:05:16,608 --> 00:05:18,944
398In regards to
399the bomb plots in Germany,
400
40187
40200:05:19,028 --> 00:05:20,320
403three men were arrested
404in Medebach
405
40688
40700:05:20,404 --> 00:05:22,489
408with 1,500 pounds
409of hydrogen peroxide
410
41189
41200:05:22,573 --> 00:05:24,825
413and 26 military-grade
414detonators.
415
41690
41700:05:24,908 --> 00:05:26,785
418The CIA suspects
419the Islamic Jihad Union...
420
42191
42200:05:26,869 --> 00:05:28,078
423Excuse me.
424
42592
42600:05:28,162 --> 00:05:29,997
427Uh, can I borrow you
428for a minute, Dan?
429
43093
43100:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,832
432Uh, Senator would
433like to see you.
434
43594
43600:05:31,915 --> 00:05:33,333
437Yeah, of course.
438
43995
44000:05:36,253 --> 00:05:39,089
441- Morning, Dan.
442- Morning, Senator.
443
44496
44500:05:39,173 --> 00:05:41,842
446Have you seen the story today
447in The New York Times?
448
44997
45000:05:41,925 --> 00:05:44,261
451- No, Senator, I have not.
452- Evidently, the CIA destroyed
453
45498
45500:05:44,344 --> 00:05:47,514
456tapes of interrogations
457of Al Qaeda detainees.
458
45999
46000:05:48,807 --> 00:05:51,060
461Did the Intel Committee know
462there were tapes?
463
464100
46500:05:51,143 --> 00:05:53,270
466No. This is the first
467I’ve heard of it.
468
469101
47000:05:53,353 --> 00:05:56,774
471So, I want to find out
472what was on the tapes
473
474102
47500:05:56,857 --> 00:05:58,233
476and why they were destroyed.
477
478103
47900:05:58,317 --> 00:06:00,819
480We want you to lead
481the investigation, Dan.
482
483104
48400:06:02,863 --> 00:06:04,990
485But if the tapes were
486destroyed, how do we...
487
488105
48900:06:05,074 --> 00:06:07,117
490They’re saying
491they have written records.
492
493106
49400:06:07,201 --> 00:06:10,871
495Thousands of pages.
496Let’s see about that.
497
498107
49900:06:10,954 --> 00:06:13,290
500I want you to find out
501exactly what they have
502
503108
50400:06:13,373 --> 00:06:15,250
505and read every word of it.
506
507109
50800:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,551
509This report on the
510destruction of tapes by the CIA
511
512110
51300:06:24,635 --> 00:06:27,179
514- has been two years in the making.
515- Thank you.
516
517111
51800:06:27,262 --> 00:06:29,848
519The findings
520are very troubling,
521
522112
52300:06:29,932 --> 00:06:32,476
524but it will remain classified.
525
526113
52700:06:32,559 --> 00:06:35,979
528Based on these revelations,
529a larger study into
530
531114
53200:06:36,063 --> 00:06:40,234
533the entire CIA Detention
534and Interrogation Program
535
536115
53700:06:40,317 --> 00:06:43,237
538is clearly in order.
539
540116
54100:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,073
542All in favor, say "yay."
543
544117
54500:06:46,156 --> 00:06:48,367
546- Mr. Whitehouse?
547- Yay.
548
549118
55000:06:48,450 --> 00:06:51,161
551- Mr. Burr?
552- Yay.
553
554119
55500:06:51,245 --> 00:06:54,248
556- Mr. Rockefeller?
557- Yay.
558
559120
56000:06:54,331 --> 00:06:56,583
561Mr. Chambliss?
562
563121
56400:06:56,667 --> 00:06:58,210
565- Nay.
566- Mr. Risch?
567
568122
56900:06:58,293 --> 00:07:00,629
570I think
571this is a waste of time.
572
573123
57400:07:00,712 --> 00:07:02,631
575Now, I know you voted
576against this, Saxby...
577
578124
57900:07:02,714 --> 00:07:05,092
580But you already had
581your tapes investigation.
582
583125
58400:07:05,175 --> 00:07:08,470
585Yes, but the rest of us
586voted to go further, 14 to one.
587
588126
58900:07:08,554 --> 00:07:11,140
590It’s our job
591to provide oversight.
592
593127
59400:07:11,223 --> 00:07:15,561
595All during the campaign,
596you got candidate Obama saying
597
598128
59900:07:15,644 --> 00:07:18,355
600how he wanted to be the first
601post-partisan president.
602
603129
60400:07:18,438 --> 00:07:20,190
605Saxby, you know me.
606
607130
60800:07:20,274 --> 00:07:22,067
609It’s my intention
610that this report be seen
611
612131
61300:07:22,151 --> 00:07:24,653
614as coming from the entire
615Intelligence Committee,
616
617132
61800:07:24,736 --> 00:07:26,321
619not just the Democrats.
620
621133
62200:07:26,405 --> 00:07:27,948
623So, who takes the lead?
624
625134
62600:07:28,031 --> 00:07:30,701
627Well, I was thinking Dan Jones.
628
629135
63000:07:30,784 --> 00:07:33,829
631He spent four years doing
632counterterrorism at the FBI.
633
634136
63500:07:33,912 --> 00:07:36,582
636He’s already got
637the security clearances.
638
639137
64000:07:36,665 --> 00:07:40,127
641The rules are the same
642as the tapes investigation.
643
644138
64500:07:40,210 --> 00:07:42,087
646No politics, no bias,
647
648139
64900:07:42,171 --> 00:07:43,881
650and the senator
651isn’t interested
652
653140
65400:07:43,964 --> 00:07:45,716
655in opinions or theories,
656just facts.
657
658141
65900:07:45,799 --> 00:07:47,342
660Based on what
661you found out already,
662
663142
66400:07:47,426 --> 00:07:50,304
665this could go to
666a pretty dark place.
667
668143
66900:07:50,387 --> 00:07:52,431
670You need to keep your
671personal feelings out of it.
672
673144
67400:07:52,514 --> 00:07:55,434
675That’s the first thing
676Republicans are gonna look for.
677
678145
67900:07:55,517 --> 00:07:57,519
680No talking to the press
681or your girlfriend
682
683146
68400:07:57,603 --> 00:07:59,313
685or any family members.
686
687147
68800:07:59,396 --> 00:08:01,440
689Nobody outside of
690the committee.
691
692148
69300:08:01,523 --> 00:08:03,275
694You’re gonna get
695a team of six...
696
697149
69800:08:03,358 --> 00:08:04,776
699three Republicans,
700three Democrats...
701
702150
70300:08:04,860 --> 00:08:06,820
704but there can’t be
705any Republican sentences
706
707151
70800:08:06,904 --> 00:08:08,614
709or Democratic paragraphs.
710
711152
71200:08:08,697 --> 00:08:10,490
713And how long do we have?
714
715153
71600:08:10,574 --> 00:08:13,327
717We’re hoping you can
718wrap it up in a year or so.
719
720154
72100:08:13,410 --> 00:08:17,080
722You’re gonna have to keep the
723senators updated on your work.
724
725155
72600:08:17,164 --> 00:08:19,458
727Nobody wants any surprises.
728
729156
73000:08:19,541 --> 00:08:22,711
731There’s a covert CIA off-site
732in Virginia.
733
734157
73500:08:22,794 --> 00:08:23,962
736You start tomorrow.
737
738158
73900:08:24,046 --> 00:08:26,048
740- Jones, right?
741- Sean.
742
743159
74400:08:26,131 --> 00:08:29,343
745- Hi. Dan.
746- Sean Murphy from the Agency.
747
748160
74900:08:29,426 --> 00:08:31,678
750- Let’s go inside.
751- Okay.
752
753161
75400:08:36,016 --> 00:08:38,435
755Identification, gentlemen.
756
757162
75800:08:38,518 --> 00:08:41,021
759The room we’ve designated is a SCIF.
760
761163
76200:08:41,104 --> 00:08:43,357
763No phone reception, no photos...
764you know the drill...
765
766164
76700:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,442
768lead walls.
769
770165
77100:08:45,525 --> 00:08:47,361
772And, per the agreement,
773
774166
77500:08:47,444 --> 00:08:48,987
776the room is off-limits
777to everyone
778
779167
78000:08:49,071 --> 00:08:50,906
781- except committee personnel.
782- Absolutely.
783
784168
78500:08:50,989 --> 00:08:52,824
786No one inside
787without your permission.
788
789169
79000:09:02,793 --> 00:09:04,670
791- And the computers?
792- Right here.
793
794170
79500:09:04,753 --> 00:09:07,172
796Your own dedicated server,
797air-gapped workstations.
798
799171
80000:09:07,256 --> 00:09:09,132
801We’ll be updating
802the database as we go.
803
804172
80500:09:09,216 --> 00:09:11,301
806The files will be loaded
807on here as we collect them
808
809173
81000:09:11,385 --> 00:09:13,178
811- from across the Agency.
812- Great.
813
814174
81500:09:13,262 --> 00:09:15,138
816We’ll want all relevant
817documents as soon as possible.
818
819175
82000:09:15,222 --> 00:09:16,640
821- Well, we got to vet it first.
822- Vet?
823
824176
82500:09:16,723 --> 00:09:18,100
826There’s a lot to...
827
828177
82900:09:18,183 --> 00:09:19,476
830Director Panetta
831agreed to give us
832
833178
83400:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,811
835everything pertaining
836to the program.
837
838179
83900:09:20,894 --> 00:09:23,021
840Wh-Who would be,
841who would be vetting it?
842
843180
84400:09:23,105 --> 00:09:25,023
845It’s a big agency.
846
847181
84800:09:25,107 --> 00:09:26,775
849We got to make sure
850you don’t get anything
851
852182
85300:09:26,858 --> 00:09:28,986
854you’re not supposed to.
855
856183
85700:09:54,428 --> 00:09:56,638
858Make yourself at home.
859
860184
86100:10:05,605 --> 00:10:08,692
862There’s... no printer?
863
864185
86500:10:08,775 --> 00:10:10,152
866No paper.
867
868186
86900:10:10,235 --> 00:10:12,279
870No documents are allowed
871to leave the room
872
873187
87400:10:12,362 --> 00:10:14,156
875without CIA approval.
876
877188
87800:10:14,239 --> 00:10:18,201
879Paper has a way of getting
880people in trouble at our place.
881
882189
88300:10:20,704 --> 00:10:23,248
884I think at some point
885we’re gonna need a printer.
886
887190
88800:10:23,332 --> 00:10:24,416
889And paper.
890
891191
89200:10:24,499 --> 00:10:27,044
893At our place...
894
895192
89600:10:27,127 --> 00:10:29,629
897paper’s how
898we keep track of laws.
899
900193
90100:10:33,008 --> 00:10:34,551
902Okay.
903
904194
90500:11:11,755 --> 00:11:15,175
906...calling this
907an obvious terrorist attack
908
909195
91000:11:15,258 --> 00:11:17,469
911based on very
912preliminary information,
913
914196
91500:11:17,552 --> 00:11:19,346
916the information that
917
918197
91900:11:19,429 --> 00:11:20,680
920intelligence officials
921are getting...
922
923198
92400:11:20,764 --> 00:11:22,474
925You’re not gonna like this.
926
927199
92800:11:22,557 --> 00:11:24,643
929...a possible
930hijacked plane, and of course
931
932200
93300:11:24,726 --> 00:11:27,979
934the-the very horrifying video
935of the plane...
936
937201
93800:11:28,063 --> 00:11:30,399
939We confirmed some of the names.
940
941202
94200:11:30,482 --> 00:11:31,775
943The hijackers?
944
945203
94600:11:31,858 --> 00:11:33,610
947Two of the guys from
948the Malaysia meetings.
949
950204
95100:11:33,693 --> 00:11:35,987
952The San Diego guys.
953They took down Flight 77.
954
955205
95600:11:36,071 --> 00:11:37,364
957Pentagon.
958
959206
96000:11:37,447 --> 00:11:38,949
961...the coordination
962that took place
963
964207
96500:11:39,032 --> 00:11:40,450
966to have two planes
967hit the towers...
968
969208
97000:11:40,534 --> 00:11:42,494
971Attention, everyone, please.
972
973209
97400:11:42,577 --> 00:11:44,830
975We have reason to believe
976the Counterterrorism Center
977
978210
97900:11:44,913 --> 00:11:46,415
980is a potential target.
981
982211
98300:11:46,498 --> 00:11:49,167
984We’re asking all personnel
985to evacuate, immediately.
986
987212
98800:11:49,251 --> 00:11:51,169
989Jim Miklaszewski
990
991213
99200:11:51,253 --> 00:11:52,504
993there from the Pentagon.
994
995214
99600:11:52,587 --> 00:11:54,089
997Of course, the president
998has the authority
999
1000215
100100:11:54,172 --> 00:11:56,633
1002to scramble
1003military, uh, forces,
1004
1005216
100600:11:56,716 --> 00:11:58,343
1007and, uh, this is a case,
1008obviously,
1009
1010217
101100:11:58,427 --> 00:12:01,012
1012in which, uh, retaliation,
1013if indeed it proves to be
1014
1015218
101600:12:01,096 --> 00:12:02,931
1017a terrorist incident,
1018
1019219
102000:12:03,014 --> 00:12:04,516
1021will be contemplated.
1022
1023220
102400:12:04,599 --> 00:12:06,560
1025We also have to work, though,
1026
1027221
102800:12:06,643 --> 00:12:08,145
1029sort of, the-the dark side,
1030if you will.
1031
1032222
103300:12:08,228 --> 00:12:09,688
1034We’ve got to spend time
1035in the shadows
1036
1037223
103800:12:09,771 --> 00:12:11,606
1039in-in the intelligence world.
1040
1041224
104200:12:11,690 --> 00:12:13,984
1043Uh, a lot of
1044what needs to be done here
1045
1046225
104700:12:14,067 --> 00:12:16,778
1048will have to be done quietly,
1049without any discussion...
1050
1051226
105200:12:16,862 --> 00:12:17,988
1053Fucking warned them.
1054
1055227
105600:12:18,071 --> 00:12:20,449
1057August 6th
1058presidential briefing:
1059
1060228
106100:12:20,532 --> 00:12:22,451
1062"Bin Ladin Determined
1063to Strike in U.S."
1064
1065229
106600:12:22,534 --> 00:12:24,953
1067- Flashing red lights.
1068- And before that,
1069
1070230
107100:12:25,036 --> 00:12:27,164
1072in July, what did we say?
1073
1074231
107500:12:27,247 --> 00:12:29,583
1076"There will be
1077significant terrorist attacks
1078
1079232
108000:12:29,666 --> 00:12:33,670
1081against the United States in
1082the weeks and months to come."
1083
1084233
108500:12:33,753 --> 00:12:35,172
1086It’s not your fault.
1087
1088234
108900:12:35,255 --> 00:12:38,842
1090It is a mean, nasty, dangerous,
1091uh, dirty business out there,
1092
1093235
109400:12:38,925 --> 00:12:41,303
1095and we have to operate
1096in that arena.
1097
1098236
109900:12:41,386 --> 00:12:43,430
1100But we need to make certain
1101that we have not
1102
1103237
110400:12:43,513 --> 00:12:46,725
1105tied the hands, if you will,
1106of our intelligence community.
1107
1108238
110900:12:46,808 --> 00:12:49,352
1110Counterterrorism Director Black
1111and I saw President Bush
1112
1113239
111400:12:49,436 --> 00:12:51,229
1115at Camp David this weekend.
1116
1117240
111800:12:51,313 --> 00:12:53,565
1119And the president gave me
1120his word that there will be
1121
1122241
112300:12:53,648 --> 00:12:57,319
1124no changes in CIA leadership as
1125a result of Tuesday’s attacks.
1126
1127242
112800:12:57,402 --> 00:12:59,070
1129We will look forward now,
1130
1131243
113200:12:59,154 --> 00:13:02,532
1133not waste time second-guessing
1134or looking for blame.
1135
1136244
113700:13:02,616 --> 00:13:04,993
1138Going forward, we will be
1139the tip of the spear
1140
1141245
114200:13:05,076 --> 00:13:07,329
1143in the battle against Al Qaeda.
1144
1145246
114600:13:07,412 --> 00:13:09,998
1147As I said
1148to the president, two weeks,
1149
1150247
115100:13:10,081 --> 00:13:13,126
1152we’ll have flies walking
1153across Al Qaeda eyeballs.
1154
1155248
115600:13:13,210 --> 00:13:15,253
1157I’ve asked Chief Counsel Rizzo
1158here to walk us through
1159
1160249
116100:13:15,337 --> 00:13:17,506
1162where we are from
1163a legal standpoint.
1164
1165250
116600:13:17,589 --> 00:13:21,676
1167The president has issued
1168a memorandum of notification
1169
1170251
117100:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,264
1172giving CIA the power to capture
1173and detain suspected terrorists
1174
1175252
117600:13:26,348 --> 00:13:27,766
1177on the battlefield.
1178
1179253
118000:13:27,849 --> 00:13:29,726
1181Detain them where?
1182
1183254
118400:13:29,809 --> 00:13:31,937
1185Are we bringing them
1186to the U.S.?
1187
1188255
118900:13:32,020 --> 00:13:34,147
1190We’re really not
1191in the prison business
1192
1193256
119400:13:34,231 --> 00:13:36,399
1195- over in Counterterrorism.
1196- Look,
1197
1198257
119900:13:36,483 --> 00:13:39,110
1200the budget for Counterterrorism
1201last week was what?
1202
1203258
120400:13:39,194 --> 00:13:41,530
1205$600 million?
1206
1207259
120800:13:41,613 --> 00:13:45,200
1209The budget this week is
1210whatever you need it to be.
1211
1212260
121300:13:45,283 --> 00:13:48,161
1214And we are in whatever business
1215it takes to get the job done.
1216
1217261
121800:13:49,329 --> 00:13:51,122
1219Initially, CIA legal
1220
1221262
122200:13:51,206 --> 00:13:53,625
1223stated that any facility used
1224to hold detainees
1225
1226263
122700:13:53,708 --> 00:13:56,378
1228had to meet the requirements
1229of the U.S. Bureau of Prisons,
1230
1231264
123200:13:56,461 --> 00:13:57,546
1233but then Deputy Director Pavitt
1234
1235265
123600:13:57,629 --> 00:13:58,922
1237thought that was
1238gonna be too limiting.
1239
1240266
124100:13:59,005 --> 00:14:01,007
1242So, who came up
1243with the black sites?
1244
1245267
124600:14:01,091 --> 00:14:02,092
1247Not totally clear.
1248
1249268
125000:14:02,175 --> 00:14:03,760
1251My guess is either
1252
1253269
125400:14:03,843 --> 00:14:06,555
1255a senior officer
1256at Counterterr... CTC,
1257
1258270
125900:14:06,638 --> 00:14:08,014
1260or Alec Station bin Laden unit
1261
1262271
126300:14:08,098 --> 00:14:09,683
1264decided black sites
1265were the best option.
1266
1267272
126800:14:09,766 --> 00:14:12,686
1269Well, did the CIA
1270tell the State Department
1271
1272273
127300:14:12,769 --> 00:14:16,481
1274they were making deals
1275to hold people on foreign soil?
1276
1277274
127800:14:16,565 --> 00:14:19,609
1279Where was Secretary of State
1280Powell in all this?
1281
1282275
128300:14:19,693 --> 00:14:21,152
1284Well, I found a memo.
1285
1286276
128700:14:21,236 --> 00:14:24,364
1288The CIA’s general counsel...
1289
1290277
129100:14:24,447 --> 00:14:26,116
1292said the decision was made
1293
1294278
129500:14:26,199 --> 00:14:28,743
1296not to tell Powell
1297about the program,
1298
1299279
130000:14:28,827 --> 00:14:31,454
1301because...
1302
1303280
130400:14:31,538 --> 00:14:33,039
1305"He would blow his stack
1306
1307281
130800:14:33,123 --> 00:14:35,542
1309if he were to be briefed
1310on what was going on."
1311
1312282
131300:14:37,210 --> 00:14:39,421
1314Well, who decided that?
1315
1316283
131700:14:39,504 --> 00:14:41,256
1318Someone inside the White House.
1319
1320284
132100:14:41,339 --> 00:14:42,340
1322Mm-hmm.
1323
1324285
132500:14:43,425 --> 00:14:45,760
1326What about interrogations?
1327
1328286
132900:14:45,844 --> 00:14:47,596
1330President Bush’s memoranda
1331
1332287
133300:14:47,679 --> 00:14:49,681
1334just authorized
1335capturing and detaining.
1336
1337288
133800:14:49,764 --> 00:14:51,850
1339It didn’t say anything
1340about interrogations.
1341
1342289
134300:14:51,933 --> 00:14:54,769
1344And who gave them permission
1345to play that role?
1346
1347290
134800:14:54,853 --> 00:14:58,732
1349Nobody. It looks like
1350it started with legal at CTC.
1351
1352291
135300:15:01,651 --> 00:15:04,195
1354Do you want me to brief Senator McCain
1355on this? I know he’s interested.
1356
1357292
135800:15:04,279 --> 00:15:06,990
1359The Republicans just
1360pulled out of the study, Dan.
1361
1362293
136300:15:12,329 --> 00:15:14,414
1364Good morning.
1365
1366294
136700:15:14,497 --> 00:15:16,458
1368Where is everybody?
1369
1370295
137100:15:18,543 --> 00:15:21,129
1372Attorney General Holder
1373opened a criminal investigation
1374
1375296
137600:15:21,212 --> 00:15:22,589
1377into the CIA.
1378
1379297
138000:15:22,672 --> 00:15:25,133
1381As a result, the Agency
1382won’t allow any of their people
1383
1384298
138500:15:25,216 --> 00:15:26,760
1386to be interviewed
1387for our report.
1388
1389299
139000:15:26,843 --> 00:15:29,179
1391The Republicans don’t see
1392how we can move forward,
1393
1394300
139500:15:29,262 --> 00:15:30,388
1396so they’re out.
1397
1398301
139900:15:31,931 --> 00:15:33,391
1400So, does this mean we stop?
1401
1402302
140300:15:33,475 --> 00:15:35,185
1404I mean, the committee
1405voted to investigate.
1406
1407303
140800:15:35,268 --> 00:15:36,728
1409The senator says we keep going.
1410
1411304
141200:15:36,811 --> 00:15:38,647
1413But we can’t actually talk
1414to anyone who was involved
1415
1416305
141700:15:38,730 --> 00:15:40,899
1418- in the program.
1419- Right. According to CIA legal,
1420
1421306
142200:15:40,982 --> 00:15:43,443
1423CIA personnel is
1424only speaking to DOJ.
1425
1426307
142700:15:43,526 --> 00:15:45,028
1428And is DOJ gonna
1429share their findings?
1430
1431308
143200:15:45,111 --> 00:15:46,404
1433I mean, can we work with them?
1434
1435309
143600:15:46,488 --> 00:15:47,822
1437I’ve reached out
1438to the special prosecutor.
1439
1440310
144100:15:47,906 --> 00:15:49,532
1442I’m waiting to hear back.
1443
1444311
144500:15:49,616 --> 00:15:51,451
1446Okay, but if nobody who
1447actually worked on the program
1448
1449312
145000:15:51,534 --> 00:15:53,787
1451is going to talk to us,
1452how do we investigate?
1453
1454313
145500:15:53,870 --> 00:15:55,288
1456So, we have the files,
1457
1458314
145900:15:55,372 --> 00:15:57,248
1460their e-mails and cables,
1461their memos.
1462
1463315
146400:15:57,332 --> 00:15:58,958
1465We have to use
1466their own communications
1467
1468316
146900:15:59,042 --> 00:16:00,251
1470to tell the story.
1471
1472317
147300:16:00,335 --> 00:16:02,796
1474Do you have any idea
1475how hard that’s gonna be?
1476
1477318
147800:16:02,879 --> 00:16:05,048
1479The tapes investigation
1480took two years, Dan,
1481
1482319
148300:16:05,131 --> 00:16:08,009
1484and this is about a lot more
1485than what was on the tapes.
1486
1487320
148800:16:08,093 --> 00:16:11,012
1489Uh, we don’t even know
1490what this is.
1491
1492321
149300:16:11,096 --> 00:16:13,264
1494Right, but we do know
1495who it starts with.
1496
1497322
149800:16:13,348 --> 00:16:15,725
1499We go one detainee at a time.
1500
1501323
150200:16:48,967 --> 00:16:49,926
1503You speak English?
1504
1505324
150600:16:51,469 --> 00:16:53,179
1507My name is Ali Soufan.
1508I’m with the FBI.
1509
1510325
151100:16:53,263 --> 00:16:54,931
1512You’re under arrest.
1513
1514326
151500:16:55,014 --> 00:16:58,017
1516- You understand?
1517- No. Where are you taking me?
1518
1519327
152000:17:04,315 --> 00:17:06,860
1521Your wound is infected.
1522
1523328
152400:17:06,943 --> 00:17:09,070
1525But we’re going to
1526take good care of you.
1527
1528329
152900:17:13,992 --> 00:17:15,702
1530I want to show you something.
1531
1532330
153300:17:23,501 --> 00:17:26,045
1534He’s talking to
1535someone off-screen.
1536
1537331
153800:17:27,589 --> 00:17:30,341
1539He’s calling him Mukhtar.
1540
1541332
154200:17:30,425 --> 00:17:32,218
1543You know who that is?
1544
1545333
154600:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,397
1547Mukhtar.
1548
1549334
155000:17:51,696 --> 00:17:54,199
1551A man who lost his mind?
1552
1553335
155400:18:01,623 --> 00:18:03,208
1555No, not him.
1556
1557336
155800:18:11,424 --> 00:18:13,092
1559Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?
1560
1561337
156200:18:41,913 --> 00:18:43,832
1563Abu Zubaydah confirmed
1564that KSM is the leader
1565
1566338
156700:18:43,915 --> 00:18:46,668
1568of all Al Qaeda operations
1569outside of Afghanistan.
1570
1571339
157200:18:46,751 --> 00:18:48,044
1573He trained the hijackers.
1574
1575340
157600:18:48,127 --> 00:18:49,629
1577We’re calling him
1578the mastermind.
1579
1580341
158100:18:49,712 --> 00:18:51,256
1582Outstanding.
1583
1584342
158500:18:51,339 --> 00:18:53,341
1586Hats off
1587to the bin Laden group.
1588
1589343
159000:18:53,424 --> 00:18:55,093
1591Whichever one of
1592your people did this,
1593
1594344
159500:18:55,176 --> 00:18:57,345
1596I want to call them and
1597congratulate them in person.
1598
1599345
160000:18:57,428 --> 00:18:59,347
1601Who was it?
1602
1603346
160400:18:59,430 --> 00:19:01,266
1605Wasn’t our guy.
1606
1607347
160800:19:01,349 --> 00:19:03,184
1609What? Who got it?
1610
1611348
161200:19:03,268 --> 00:19:05,937
1613FBI is working Zubaydah.
1614
1615349
161600:19:06,020 --> 00:19:07,397
1617An FBI guy got this?
1618
1619350
162000:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,315
1621Yes, Ali Soufan.
1622
1623351
162400:19:09,399 --> 00:19:11,234
1625Uh, they used him
1626in the Cole investigation.
1627
1628352
162900:19:11,317 --> 00:19:13,653
1630He’s part of their counterterrorism group.
1631He speaks Arabic.
1632
1633353
163400:19:13,736 --> 00:19:16,364
1635I don’t care who speaks Arabic.
1636
1637354
163800:19:16,447 --> 00:19:19,117
1639This is not just
1640a criminal investigation.
1641
1642355
164300:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,869
1644We are gathering
1645intelligence here.
1646
1647356
164800:19:20,952 --> 00:19:22,370
1649That is what we do.
1650
1651357
165200:19:22,453 --> 00:19:24,706
1653The FBI is looking at the past.
1654
1655358
165600:19:24,789 --> 00:19:26,958
1657We need to stop attacks
1658in the future.
1659
1660359
166100:19:27,041 --> 00:19:29,294
1662I want CIA in the room
1663with this guy, okay?
1664
1665360
166600:19:29,377 --> 00:19:32,338
1667I want CIA
1668in the room with Zubaydah.
1669
1670361
167100:19:32,422 --> 00:19:34,048
1672So, who do we have
1673who can work on him?
1674
1675362
167600:19:34,132 --> 00:19:35,633
1677CIA runs sources,
1678people who cooperate.
1679
1680363
168100:19:35,717 --> 00:19:37,135
1682That’s not these guys.
1683
1684364
168500:19:37,218 --> 00:19:39,387
1686Every second we are not
1687draining the detainee’s brain,
1688
1689365
169000:19:39,470 --> 00:19:41,180
1691we are rolling the dice.
1692
1693366
169400:19:41,264 --> 00:19:42,765
1695We need our people in the room.
1696
1697367
169800:19:42,849 --> 00:19:45,727
1699We need to be the ones
1700asking the questions now.
1701
1702368
170300:19:45,810 --> 00:19:48,271
1704I heard from someone
1705over in Technical Services,
1706
1707369
170800:19:48,354 --> 00:19:50,106
1709a woman named Miriam,
1710
1711370
171200:19:50,189 --> 00:19:52,817
1713about a couple of
1714Air Force psychologists
1715
1716371
171700:19:52,901 --> 00:19:56,237
1718who came in and pitched a whole
1719new approach to interrogations.
1720
1721372
172200:19:56,321 --> 00:19:58,615
1723Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen.
1724
1725373
172600:19:58,698 --> 00:20:01,701
1727Miriam says Mitchell
1728has the special sauce.
1729
1730374
173100:20:03,453 --> 00:20:06,247
1732Zubaydah didn’t
1733tell us everything,
1734
1735375
173600:20:06,331 --> 00:20:10,043
1737because we stopped short
1738of where we needed to go.
1739
1740376
174100:20:10,126 --> 00:20:15,757
1742SERE stands for Survival,
1743Evasion, Resistance and Escape.
1744
1745377
174600:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,261
1747It’s a program to help prepare
1748U.S. Special Forces
1749
1750378
175100:20:20,345 --> 00:20:22,639
1752for whatever they might
1753encounter if captured.
1754
1755379
175600:20:22,722 --> 00:20:26,142
1757Now, I have over 14,000 hours
1758
1759380
176000:20:26,225 --> 00:20:28,895
1761observing SERE
1762interrogation techniques.
1763
1764381
176500:20:28,978 --> 00:20:30,980
1766Bruce here
1767has more than that...
1768
1769382
177000:20:31,064 --> 00:20:32,899
1771Uh, observing,
1772as opposed to...?
1773
1774383
177500:20:32,982 --> 00:20:35,944
1776I took a course in conducting
1777interrogations as well.
1778
1779384
178000:20:36,027 --> 00:20:38,821
1781I worked with volunteers
1782in actual simulations.
1783
1784385
178500:20:38,905 --> 00:20:41,908
1786We feel we can reverse engineer
1787
1788386
178900:20:41,991 --> 00:20:45,828
1790these SERE techniques
1791to induce learned helplessness.
1792
1793387
179400:20:45,912 --> 00:20:47,830
1795Can you explain
1796what that means,
1797
1798388
179900:20:47,914 --> 00:20:49,874
1800"reverse engineer"?
1801
1802389
180300:20:49,958 --> 00:20:51,918
1804Instead of using
1805these techniques
1806
1807390
180800:20:52,001 --> 00:20:53,670
1809to protect our people,
1810
1811391
181200:20:53,753 --> 00:20:57,882
1813we use them to achieve
1814compliance in the detainees.
1815
1816392
181700:20:57,966 --> 00:21:01,177
1818Our plan involves, uh,
1819using individual assessments
1820
1821393
182200:21:01,260 --> 00:21:05,974
1823of detainees to create
1824a program designed to induce
1825
1826394
182700:21:06,057 --> 00:21:09,769
1828debility, dependency and dread.
1829
1830395
183100:21:09,852 --> 00:21:12,981
1832- We call these the three "D"s.
1833- Three "D"s.
1834
1835396
183600:21:13,064 --> 00:21:15,066
1837And there’s science
1838to back this up?
1839
1840397
184100:21:15,149 --> 00:21:16,693
1842Oh, yes. Yes, sir.
1843
1844398
184500:21:16,776 --> 00:21:18,486
1846Excuse me, Dr. Mitchell.
1847
1848399
184900:21:18,569 --> 00:21:21,531
1850Can you elaborate on, uh, the
1851techniques you’ll be employing?
1852
1853400
185400:21:21,614 --> 00:21:23,032
1855Absolutely.
1856
1857401
185800:21:25,118 --> 00:21:28,037
1859The, uh, the attention grasp.
1860
1861402
186200:21:30,248 --> 00:21:31,874
1863Walling.
1864
1865403
186600:21:31,958 --> 00:21:33,960
1867Facial hold.
1868
1869404
187000:21:34,043 --> 00:21:38,297
1871The facial slap or insult slap.
1872
1873405
187400:21:38,381 --> 00:21:40,299
1875Cramped confinement.
1876
1877406
187800:21:41,843 --> 00:21:44,053
1879Wall standing.
1880
1881407
188200:21:44,137 --> 00:21:47,223
1883Stress positions.
1884
1885408
188600:21:47,306 --> 00:21:49,642
1887Sleep deprivation.
1888
1889409
189000:21:49,726 --> 00:21:51,769
1891Waterboarding.
1892
1893410
189400:21:51,853 --> 00:21:53,813
1895Use of insects.
1896
1897411
189800:21:53,896 --> 00:21:56,399
1899And mock burials.
1900
1901412
190200:21:59,777 --> 00:22:02,030
1903Well, from my perspective,
1904this seems like it could be
1905
1906413
190700:22:02,113 --> 00:22:05,033
1908a potential game changer,
1909but, of course...
1910
1911414
191200:22:05,116 --> 00:22:07,076
1913it’s up to Director Rodriguez.
1914
1915415
191600:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,912
1917I think if we’re serious about
1918stopping the next threat,
1919
1920416
192100:22:09,996 --> 00:22:11,831
1922we need to put on
1923our big boy pants
1924
1925417
192600:22:11,914 --> 00:22:13,708
1927and provide the authorities
1928these guys need.
1929
1930418
193100:22:13,791 --> 00:22:18,254
1932These approaches might...
1933raise some eyebrows at Defense.
1934
1935419
193600:22:18,337 --> 00:22:21,174
1937Well, we’re not at Defense.
1938We’re at the CIA.
1939
1940420
194100:22:21,257 --> 00:22:22,633
1942Besides, you just said,
1943
1944421
194500:22:22,717 --> 00:22:24,677
1946we use this SERE stuff
1947on our guys all the time.
1948
1949422
195000:22:24,761 --> 00:22:26,763
1951I don’t see a problem.
1952
1953423
195400:22:26,846 --> 00:22:28,765
1955Shortly after
1956the CIA’s decision
1957
1958424
195900:22:28,848 --> 00:22:30,975
1960to engage Dr. Mitchell,
1961Abu Zubaydah was moved
1962
1963425
196400:22:31,059 --> 00:22:33,269
1965to a cell that was lit
196624 hours a day.
1967
1968426
196900:22:33,352 --> 00:22:36,481
1970Loud noise was fed into
1971his cell to disrupt his sleep.
1972
1973427
197400:22:36,564 --> 00:22:38,441
1975What about the guy
1976who got him talking?
1977
1978428
197900:22:38,524 --> 00:22:40,151
1980Ali Soufan?
1981
1982429
198300:22:40,234 --> 00:22:42,111
1984Wait, he’s FBI, not CIA.
1985
1986430
198700:22:42,195 --> 00:22:44,614
1988So, we can ask him
1989questions, right?
1990
1991431
199200:22:44,697 --> 00:22:47,075
1993No rule against that.
1994
1995432
199600:22:47,158 --> 00:22:48,618
1997We can try.
1998
1999433
200000:22:59,504 --> 00:23:01,839
2001There’s only
2002one interrogation technique
2003
2004434
200500:23:01,923 --> 00:23:04,425
2006that works: rapport building.
2007
2008435
200900:23:04,509 --> 00:23:07,261
2010You get close to these guys,
2011and they open up.
2012
2013436
201400:23:07,345 --> 00:23:09,222
2015But the CIA
2016didn’t believe that.
2017
2018437
201900:23:09,305 --> 00:23:10,890
2020Just look at Abu Zubaydah.
2021
2022438
202300:23:10,973 --> 00:23:13,101
2024Well, you got him to talk.
2025How’d you do that?
2026
2027439
202800:23:13,184 --> 00:23:16,270
2029I walked in one day and
2030played him a tape of himself.
2031
2032440
203300:23:16,354 --> 00:23:18,689
2034Most of it was
2035of a phone conversation.
2036
2037441
203800:23:18,773 --> 00:23:20,233
2039Uh, we had tapped his phones.
2040
2041442
204200:23:20,316 --> 00:23:22,652
2043But he forgot to hang up
2044at the end of the call,
2045
2046443
204700:23:22,735 --> 00:23:25,571
2048so we had all this
2049background noise of his house.
2050
2051444
205200:23:25,655 --> 00:23:27,573
2053Then my partner walked in
2054
2055445
205600:23:27,657 --> 00:23:30,118
2057with a big box
2058full of cassette tapes.
2059
2060446
206100:23:30,201 --> 00:23:32,370
2062We told him we had bugged
2063his safe house;
2064
2065447
206600:23:32,453 --> 00:23:34,038
2067we had been listening
2068for months;
2069
2070448
207100:23:34,122 --> 00:23:36,707
2072we knew everything,
2073so lying was pointless.
2074
2075449
207600:23:36,791 --> 00:23:38,751
2077He looked at
2078the box full of tapes and...
2079
2080450
208100:23:38,835 --> 00:23:40,211
2082And all-all the tapes
2083were blank.
2084
2085451
208600:23:40,294 --> 00:23:43,005
2087Of course they were.
2088But he didn’t know that.
2089
2090452
209100:23:43,089 --> 00:23:45,049
2092So, he talked.
2093
2094453
209500:23:45,133 --> 00:23:48,553
2096Uh, what happened when
2097the contractors showed up?
2098
2099454
210000:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,472
2101Who the fuck is this?
2102
2103455
210400:23:51,556 --> 00:23:53,432
2105Dr. Mitchell
2106is an Air Force psychologist,
2107
2108456
210900:23:53,516 --> 00:23:55,643
2110and he’s developed
2111a new method of interrogation.
2112
2113457
211400:23:55,726 --> 00:23:57,186
2115Why-why do we need
2116a new method?
2117
2118458
211900:23:57,270 --> 00:23:59,188
2120He’s not telling you
2121everything.
2122
2123459
212400:23:59,272 --> 00:24:01,399
2125We think he knows more.
2126
2127460
212800:24:01,482 --> 00:24:02,733
2129We put him at number three
2130
2131461
213200:24:02,817 --> 00:24:04,360
2133or number four
2134in Al Qaeda leadership.
2135
2136462
213700:24:04,443 --> 00:24:05,486
2138He probably knows
2139the next move.
2140
2141463
214200:24:05,570 --> 00:24:07,864
2143Do you speak Arabic, Jim?
2144Does Gary here?
2145
2146464
214700:24:07,947 --> 00:24:09,198
2148Don’t need to.
2149
2150465
215100:24:10,908 --> 00:24:12,535
2152C-Can I ask you something?
2153
2154466
215500:24:12,618 --> 00:24:16,873
2156Have you ever interrogated
2157any sort of extremist before?
2158
2159467
216000:24:16,956 --> 00:24:19,959
2161- Know much about Al Qaeda?
2162- No.
2163
2164468
216500:24:20,042 --> 00:24:22,628
2166Have you ever interrogated
2167any sort of terrorist before?
2168
2169469
217000:24:22,712 --> 00:24:26,132
2171- No.
2172- Any sort of criminal?
2173
2174470
217500:24:26,215 --> 00:24:27,592
2176No.
2177
2178471
217900:24:27,675 --> 00:24:30,344
2180Have you ever interrogated
2181anyone before?
2182
2183472
218400:24:30,428 --> 00:24:31,679
2185It’s not important.
2186
2187473
218800:24:31,762 --> 00:24:35,808
2189He’s a human;
2190I’m a psychologist.
2191
2192474
219300:24:35,892 --> 00:24:37,643
2194He knows a secret,
2195
2196475
219700:24:37,727 --> 00:24:42,190
2198and I’m gonna get him
2199to tell that secret to Gary.
2200
2201476
220200:24:42,273 --> 00:24:44,525
2203What-what are you going
2204to do to him that isn’t...
2205
2206477
220700:24:44,609 --> 00:24:46,861
2208What am I gonna do?
2209
2210478
221100:24:46,944 --> 00:24:48,571
2212What is Jim gonna do?
2213
2214479
221500:24:48,654 --> 00:24:51,908
2216Jim’s gonna do what works.
2217
2218480
221900:24:53,993 --> 00:24:55,995
2220Let’s go, shitbird!
2221
2222481
222300:25:00,082 --> 00:25:01,876
2224Move it, asshole!
2225
2226482
222700:25:03,336 --> 00:25:04,879
2228Help! Please!
2229
2230483
223100:25:21,270 --> 00:25:23,064
2232You can’t just shave
2233a Muslim man.
2234
2235484
223600:25:23,147 --> 00:25:24,232
2237Do you know what that means?
2238
2239485
224000:25:24,315 --> 00:25:26,525
2241He’s going to shut down.
2242
2243486
224400:25:26,609 --> 00:25:29,153
2245Got to humiliate him,
2246right off the bat.
2247
2248487
224900:25:29,237 --> 00:25:31,113
2250Same reason
2251we took away his clothes.
2252
2253488
225400:25:31,197 --> 00:25:32,740
2255Why the loud music?
2256
2257489
225800:25:32,823 --> 00:25:34,575
2259Sleep deprivation.
2260
2261490
226200:25:34,659 --> 00:25:37,245
2263We stop the music
2264when he starts talking.
2265
2266491
226700:25:37,328 --> 00:25:38,913
2268Then he can sleep.
2269
2270492
227100:25:38,996 --> 00:25:40,581
2272Tired people tell the truth?
2273
2274493
227500:25:40,665 --> 00:25:42,708
2276Learned helplessness.
2277
2278494
227900:25:42,792 --> 00:25:45,836
2280You’re familiar with
2281Dr. Martin Seligman?
2282
2283495
228400:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,381
2285Seligman did
2286an experiment with dogs.
2287
2288496
228900:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,299
2290He put them in a cage
2291
2292497
229300:25:50,383 --> 00:25:52,927
2294with a barrier
2295running down the middle.
2296
2297498
229800:25:53,010 --> 00:25:54,637
2299And one side of the cage
2300was electrified
2301
2302499
230300:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,264
2304and the other wasn’t.
2305
2306500
230700:25:56,347 --> 00:25:58,140
2308At first,
2309when he shocked the dogs,
2310
2311501
231200:25:58,224 --> 00:26:00,142
2313they’d jump over the barrier
2314to get away.
2315
2316502
231700:26:00,226 --> 00:26:02,436
2318And then
2319he electrified both sides.
2320
2321503
232200:26:04,021 --> 00:26:05,439
2323There was no escape.
2324
2325504
232600:26:07,024 --> 00:26:09,402
2327No belief they could
2328change anything.
2329
2330505
233100:26:09,485 --> 00:26:13,489
2332He’d open the door to the cage,
2333they wouldn’t even leave.
2334
2335506
233600:26:13,572 --> 00:26:15,032
2337It’s learned helplessness.
2338
2339507
234000:26:15,116 --> 00:26:17,076
2341That’s what we’re
2342gonna instill in this man.
2343
2344508
234500:26:17,159 --> 00:26:18,869
2346You’ll see.
2347
2348509
234900:26:25,001 --> 00:26:27,628
2350A coffin?
2351You’re gonna kill him?
2352
2353510
235400:26:27,712 --> 00:26:29,922
2355Let’s call it
2356a confinement box.
2357
2358511
235900:26:30,006 --> 00:26:32,758
2360I got this one,
2361and I got a smaller one.
2362
2363512
236400:26:32,842 --> 00:26:35,511
2365And you’re gonna
2366put him in there?
2367
2368513
236900:26:35,594 --> 00:26:40,599
2370With these, which, based on
2371my evaluation, he hates.
2372
2373514
237400:26:40,683 --> 00:26:42,393
2375Are you out of your mind?
2376
2377515
237800:26:43,394 --> 00:26:44,979
2379We don’t do this.
2380
2381516
238200:26:45,062 --> 00:26:46,522
2383You know this is
2384against the law.
2385
2386517
238700:26:46,605 --> 00:26:49,150
2388The most senior people
2389have signed off on it.
2390
2391518
239200:26:49,233 --> 00:26:50,735
2393We’re putting him on trial.
2394
2395519
239600:26:50,818 --> 00:26:52,903
2397How are we gonna build
2398a case against him?
2399
2400520
240100:26:54,113 --> 00:26:56,615
2402Who says he’s getting a trial?
2403
2404521
240500:26:58,492 --> 00:27:01,620
2406I wanted to arrest him
2407right there on the spot.
2408
2409522
241000:27:01,704 --> 00:27:04,123
2411- I told the Bureau that.
2412- What’d they say?
2413
2414523
241500:27:04,206 --> 00:27:06,000
2416They briefed Director Mueller,
2417
2418524
241900:27:06,083 --> 00:27:09,170
2420and told me to get the hell
2421out of there, so I did.
2422
2423525
242400:27:09,253 --> 00:27:11,964
2425- When was that?
2426- Late May, mid-May or...
2427
2428526
242900:27:12,048 --> 00:27:14,592
2430’Cause I’m finding records
2431that say that Mitchell left
2432
2433527
243400:27:14,675 --> 00:27:16,552
2435a little while later,
2436early June,
2437
2438528
243900:27:16,635 --> 00:27:20,181
2440for R & R and some meetings
2441at headquarters.
2442
2443529
244400:27:20,264 --> 00:27:22,850
2445But we had one
2446high-value detainee in custody,
2447
2448530
244900:27:22,933 --> 00:27:24,435
2450Abu Zubaydah.
2451
2452531
245300:27:24,518 --> 00:27:27,063
2454And after Mitchell left,
2455the CIA put him in isolation,
2456
2457532
245800:27:27,146 --> 00:27:29,815
2459and didn’t ask him
2460a single question for 47 days.
2461
2462533
246300:27:31,567 --> 00:27:33,527
2464Are you fucking kidding me?
2465
2466534
246700:27:33,611 --> 00:27:35,738
2468The whole country was
2469on red alert that summer.
2470
2471535
247200:27:35,821 --> 00:27:37,740
2473If they were so concerned
2474about the next attack,
2475
2476536
247700:27:37,823 --> 00:27:39,033
2478why’d they stop
2479asking questions?
2480
2481537
248200:27:39,116 --> 00:27:40,368
2483Right, it doesn’t
2484make any sense.
2485
2486538
248700:27:40,451 --> 00:27:42,453
2488Once the psychologist
2489showed up,
2490
2491539
249200:27:42,536 --> 00:27:44,205
2493almost nothing did anymore.
2494
2495540
249600:27:51,462 --> 00:27:53,631
2497The CIA said
2498Zubaydah was involved
2499
2500541
250100:27:53,714 --> 00:27:55,758
2502in every major
2503terrorist operation
2504
2505542
250600:27:55,841 --> 00:27:57,134
2507carried out by Al Qaeda.
2508
2509543
251000:27:57,218 --> 00:27:58,636
2511They told the president
2512
2513544
251400:27:58,719 --> 00:28:00,179
2515he was number three or four
2516in the organization.
2517
2518545
251900:28:00,262 --> 00:28:02,723
2520Yes, that was
2521my understanding as well.
2522
2523546
252400:28:02,807 --> 00:28:04,975
2525And the claim that
2526Zubaydah was a major player
2527
2528547
252900:28:05,059 --> 00:28:07,478
2530was the main justification they
2531gave to the Justice Department
2532
2533548
253400:28:07,561 --> 00:28:09,021
2535for needing to go harder.
2536
2537549
253800:28:09,105 --> 00:28:10,856
2539They were certain
2540he knew about the next attack.
2541
2542550
254300:28:10,940 --> 00:28:12,566
2544But last night I found this.
2545
2546551
254700:28:13,984 --> 00:28:16,487
2548Turns out Zubaydah wasn’t three
2549or four in the organization.
2550
2551552
255200:28:16,570 --> 00:28:18,823
2553He wasn’t part of
2554Al Qaeda leadership at all.
2555
2556553
255700:28:18,906 --> 00:28:20,950
2558They only had one source
2559calling him that,
2560
2561554
256200:28:21,033 --> 00:28:23,327
2563and that source later admitted
2564he was lying.
2565
2566555
256700:28:23,411 --> 00:28:26,080
2568So, they exaggerated who he was
2569
2570556
257100:28:26,163 --> 00:28:28,707
2572to the president
2573and the Department of Justice
2574
2575557
257600:28:28,791 --> 00:28:32,128
2577in order to get legal approvals
2578for these new techniques?
2579
2580558
258100:28:32,211 --> 00:28:33,671
2582Is that what you’re saying?
2583
2584559
258500:28:33,754 --> 00:28:36,424
2586I think that’s a possibility.
2587
2588560
258900:28:36,507 --> 00:28:38,217
2590The program
2591really starts with him.
2592
2593561
259400:28:42,930 --> 00:28:45,224
2595Have you guys
2596used this thing before?
2597
2598562
259900:28:45,307 --> 00:28:47,476
2600The waterboard?
2601
2602563
260300:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,270
2604No, it’s a Navy thing.
2605
2606564
260700:28:49,353 --> 00:28:51,063
2608But we watched a video.
2609
2610565
261100:28:51,147 --> 00:28:52,648
2612We tested it on each other,
2613
2614566
261500:28:52,731 --> 00:28:55,276
2616just to get a feel
2617for the experience.
2618
2619567
262000:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,027
2621Is it safe?
2622
2623568
262400:28:58,612 --> 00:28:59,864
2625Yes.
2626
2627569
262800:29:07,371 --> 00:29:09,457
2629♪ Monarch to the kingdom
2630of the dead... ♪
2631
2632570
263300:29:11,417 --> 00:29:14,044
2634Who are
2635the operatives inside the U.S.?
2636
2637571
263800:29:14,128 --> 00:29:15,504
2639I don’t know!
2640
2641572
264200:29:15,588 --> 00:29:17,965
2643♪ Infamous... ♪
2644
2645573
264600:29:20,134 --> 00:29:21,677
2647When is the next attack?
2648
2649574
265000:29:21,760 --> 00:29:22,761
2651I don’t know.
2652
2653575
265400:29:31,395 --> 00:29:35,608
2655One, two, three, four, five,
2656
2657576
265800:29:35,691 --> 00:29:40,237
2659six, seven, eight, nine,
266010, 11,
2661
2662577
266300:29:40,321 --> 00:29:42,948
266412, 13, 14,
2665
2666578
266700:29:43,032 --> 00:29:46,452
266815, 16, 17, 18,
2669
2670579
267100:29:46,535 --> 00:29:50,039
267219, 20, 21, 22,
2673
2674580
267500:29:50,122 --> 00:29:54,835
267623, 24, 25, 26.
2677
2678581
267900:30:01,842 --> 00:30:04,553
2680When is the next attack?
2681
2682582
268300:30:04,637 --> 00:30:07,473
2684Who are the operatives
2685inside the U.S.?
2686
2687583
268800:30:11,894 --> 00:30:13,854
2689Anything in that bag
2690contain the real names
2691
2692584
269300:30:13,938 --> 00:30:16,148
2694of CIA officers,
2695assets or partners,
2696
2697585
269800:30:16,232 --> 00:30:18,609
2699or any information that would
2700violate the agreement between
2701
2702586
270300:30:18,692 --> 00:30:21,570
2704the Central Intelligence Agency
2705and the United States Senate?
2706
2707587
270800:30:21,654 --> 00:30:23,489
2709- All good.
2710- All right, good night.
2711
2712588
271300:30:23,572 --> 00:30:25,241
2714- Have a good night, Jay.
2715- Get home safe.
2716
2717589
271800:30:25,324 --> 00:30:27,409
2719Good night.
2720
2721590
272200:30:42,883 --> 00:30:45,052
2723Dan Jones?
2724
2725591
272600:30:48,264 --> 00:30:49,723
2727Do I know you?
2728
2729592
273000:30:49,807 --> 00:30:51,892
2731No, but I think I can help you.
2732
2733593
273400:30:51,976 --> 00:30:54,937
2735- Help-help me with what?
2736- The EIT program.
2737
2738594
273900:30:55,020 --> 00:30:57,106
2740That’s what you’re
2741looking into, isn’t it?
2742
2743595
274400:30:59,775 --> 00:31:03,153
2745I need to know
2746I won’t be named, anywhere.
2747
2748596
274900:31:03,237 --> 00:31:05,030
2750I’m still with the Agency.
2751
2752597
275300:31:05,114 --> 00:31:08,701
2754My even being here with you,
2755talking, is...
2756
2757598
275800:31:12,496 --> 00:31:13,872
2759What was your involvement?
2760
2761599
276200:31:13,956 --> 00:31:17,543
2763Office of Medical Services,
2764black sites.
2765
2766600
276700:31:17,626 --> 00:31:20,713
2768- So, you’re a doctor?
2769- Physician’s assistant.
2770
2771601
277200:31:20,796 --> 00:31:22,339
2773The American
2774Medical Association
2775
2776602
277700:31:22,423 --> 00:31:23,882
2778won’t allow doctors
2779to be involved.
2780
2781603
278200:31:23,966 --> 00:31:26,302
2783They take an oath: do no harm.
2784
2785604
278600:31:26,385 --> 00:31:28,554
2787We’re the next best thing.
2788
2789605
279000:31:28,637 --> 00:31:31,223
2791I was there
2792when the contractors arrived.
2793
2794606
279500:31:33,309 --> 00:31:35,686
2796They made tapes of the
2797Abu Zubaydah interrogations,
2798
2799607
280000:31:35,769 --> 00:31:37,187
2801but there’s a 21-hour period
2802
2803608
280400:31:37,271 --> 00:31:39,231
2805where the transcripts
2806are missing... nothing.
2807
2808609
280900:31:39,315 --> 00:31:41,025
2810They were using the waterboard.
2811
2812610
281300:31:41,108 --> 00:31:43,027
2814Zubaydah lost consciousness.
2815
2816611
281700:31:43,110 --> 00:31:45,279
2818He was choking to death,
2819drowning.
2820
2821612
282200:31:45,362 --> 00:31:47,156
2823Not just thinking
2824he was drowning,
2825
2826613
282700:31:47,239 --> 00:31:48,991
2828he was actually
2829fucking drowning.
2830
2831614
283200:31:50,909 --> 00:31:52,661
2833I was told that the waterboard
2834
2835615
283600:31:52,745 --> 00:31:54,913
2837was only gonna be used
2838as a last resort.
2839
2840616
284100:31:54,997 --> 00:31:57,249
2842The contractors did
2843an assessment of the prisoner,
2844
2845617
284600:31:57,333 --> 00:31:59,460
2847- and they made a call...
2848- What kind of assessment?
2849
2850618
285100:31:59,543 --> 00:32:01,378
2852Th-They bounced him
2853off the walls a few times
2854
2855619
285600:32:01,462 --> 00:32:03,964
2857and then strapped him down and
2858poured water down his throat.
2859
2860620
286100:32:04,048 --> 00:32:05,966
2862We understand this is
2863a different approach,
2864
2865621
286600:32:06,050 --> 00:32:08,218
2867- but it’s based on science.
2868- Science?
2869
2870622
287100:32:08,302 --> 00:32:09,928
2872Oh, come on. What science?
2873
2874623
287500:32:10,012 --> 00:32:12,097
2876- Have you seen their science?
2877- They believe the waterboard
2878
2879624
288000:32:12,181 --> 00:32:13,515
2881is working here
2882to create compliance.
2883
2884625
288500:32:13,599 --> 00:32:14,850
2886Well, of course they do.
2887
2888626
288900:32:14,933 --> 00:32:17,019
2890They’re the ones who get
2891to decide when it’s used.
2892
2893627
289400:32:17,102 --> 00:32:19,772
2895And they’re also the ones who
2896get to decide if it’s working.
2897
2898628
289900:32:19,855 --> 00:32:21,440
2900How is that even ethical?
2901
2902629
290300:32:21,523 --> 00:32:23,609
2904The people we’re dealing with
2905weaponized daily life.
2906
2907630
290800:32:23,692 --> 00:32:26,153
2909Would you like to talk about
2910the ethics of that?
2911
2912631
291300:32:27,071 --> 00:32:28,405
2914We’re here to make sure
2915
2916632
291700:32:28,489 --> 00:32:30,949
2918that nothing like that
2919ever happens again.
2920
2921633
292200:32:31,033 --> 00:32:32,451
2923They’re training their people
2924
2925634
292600:32:32,534 --> 00:32:33,786
2927to resist
2928traditional interrogations
2929
2930635
293100:32:33,869 --> 00:32:35,120
2932in the back of a cave
2933somewhere.
2934
2935636
293600:32:35,204 --> 00:32:37,456
2937So we need to change
2938our approach
2939
2940637
294100:32:37,539 --> 00:32:41,627
2942before another bomb goes off
2943or another building falls down.
2944
2945638
294600:32:41,710 --> 00:32:43,295
2947Okay, okay.
2948
2949639
295000:32:43,379 --> 00:32:47,132
2951What is gonna happen when one
2952of our soldiers gets captured
2953
2954640
295500:32:47,216 --> 00:32:49,885
2956and takes out a card with
2957the Geneva Convention on it
2958
2959641
296000:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,346
2961and wants to be treated
2962like a human being?
2963
2964642
296500:32:52,429 --> 00:32:54,973
2966You think his captors
2967aren’t gonna remember
2968
2969643
297000:32:55,057 --> 00:32:56,975
2971the way these people
2972were treated here?
2973
2974644
297500:32:57,059 --> 00:33:00,062
2976- And for what?
2977- Do you have a kid at home?
2978
2979645
298000:33:02,898 --> 00:33:05,818
2981We’re not gonna get beat again.
2982
2983646
298400:33:05,901 --> 00:33:07,152
2985Besides the chief of station,
2986
2987647
298800:33:07,236 --> 00:33:09,446
2989did you report your concerns
2990up the chain of command?
2991
2992648
299300:33:09,530 --> 00:33:12,199
2994We got a cable from
2995Director Rodriguez
2996
2997649
299800:33:12,282 --> 00:33:15,327
2999telling us to stop putting
3000our objections in writing.
3001
3002650
300300:33:15,411 --> 00:33:17,579
3004No paper trail.
3005
3006651
300700:33:17,663 --> 00:33:20,833
3008I told them if they were gonna
3009keep using the new techniques,
3010
3011652
301200:33:20,916 --> 00:33:22,751
3013I wanted out.
3014
3015653
301600:33:22,835 --> 00:33:25,504
3017I wasn’t the only one.
3018Guys were choking up.
3019
3020654
302100:33:28,006 --> 00:33:30,551
3022It’s all in the e-mails.
3023
3024655
302500:33:34,930 --> 00:33:37,057
3026As early as November 2001,
3027
3028656
302900:33:37,141 --> 00:33:40,144
3030the CIA’s legal team
3031circulated a memorandum
3032
3033657
303400:33:40,227 --> 00:33:41,770
3035describing
3036a novel legal defense
3037
3038658
303900:33:41,854 --> 00:33:44,106
3040for their officers
3041who might engage in torture.
3042
3043659
304400:33:44,189 --> 00:33:46,734
3045Come on. They actually
3046called it torture?
3047
3048660
304900:33:46,817 --> 00:33:48,277
3050The CIA?
3051
3052661
305300:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,404
3054They just forgot
3055we have laws against that?
3056
3057662
305800:33:50,487 --> 00:33:52,781
3059Yes, sir.
3060Mitchell and Jessen renamed it
3061
3062663
306300:33:52,865 --> 00:33:54,742
3064"enhanced interrogation"
3065to help sell it,
3066
3067664
306800:33:54,825 --> 00:33:56,618
3069but the Agency was
3070talking about doing it
3071
3072665
307300:33:56,702 --> 00:33:58,328
3074before they even had
3075a single detainee.
3076
3077666
307800:33:59,621 --> 00:34:01,790
3079My question, Senator, is:
3080How did the CIA know
3081
3082667
308300:34:01,874 --> 00:34:03,667
3084they needed
3085to torture prisoners
3086
3087668
308800:34:03,751 --> 00:34:05,878
3089before they even had one?
3090
3091669
309200:34:05,961 --> 00:34:07,796
3093That didn’t come from
3094Cheney and Addington?
3095
3096670
309700:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,757
3098Seems like it happened
3099the other way around.
3100
3101671
310200:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,760
3103The CIA took it
3104to the Bush White House
3105
3106672
310700:34:12,843 --> 00:34:14,803
3108and John Yoo at
3109the Office of Legal Counsel.
3110
3111673
311200:34:14,887 --> 00:34:16,472
3113So, here’s where we’re at.
3114
3115674
311600:34:16,555 --> 00:34:19,808
3117The crime of torture,
3118as described in Section 2340,
3119
3120675
312100:34:19,892 --> 00:34:23,479
3122requires that the defendant...
3123in this case, an interrogator...
3124
3125676
312600:34:23,562 --> 00:34:26,690
3127intends to cause
3128severe pain or suffering.
3129
3130677
313100:34:26,774 --> 00:34:29,693
3132But in this case, that’s not
3133the interrogator’s intent.
3134
3135678
313600:34:29,777 --> 00:34:32,946
3137Right. The intent is to gain
3138intel, save American lives.
3139
3140679
314100:34:33,030 --> 00:34:35,783
3142But, John,
3143what if the techniques
3144
3145680
314600:34:35,866 --> 00:34:37,534
3147the interrogator employs
3148do nonetheless
3149
3150681
315100:34:37,618 --> 00:34:39,161
3152cause pain and suffering?
3153
3154682
315500:34:39,244 --> 00:34:40,788
3156How do we deal with that?
3157
3158683
315900:34:40,871 --> 00:34:43,874
3160Well, the key phrase is
3161"severe pain or suffering."
3162
3163684
316400:34:43,957 --> 00:34:46,460
3165But 2340 never actually defines
3166the term "severe."
3167
3168685
316900:34:46,543 --> 00:34:49,630
3170We found this definition
3171in a Medicare statute.
3172
3173686
317400:34:49,713 --> 00:34:51,340
3175Severe pain or suffering:
3176
3177687
317800:34:51,423 --> 00:34:55,427
3179"acute symptoms that place the
3180individual in serious jeopardy
3181
3182688
318300:34:55,511 --> 00:34:57,721
3184- and are hard to endure."
3185- Meaning?
3186
3187689
318800:34:57,805 --> 00:35:00,015
3189To constitute torture,
3190
3191690
319200:35:00,098 --> 00:35:04,728
3193the damage done must rise
3194to the level of organ failure,
3195
3196691
319700:35:04,812 --> 00:35:09,024
3198impairment of bodily function,
3199or death.
3200
3201692
320200:35:09,107 --> 00:35:11,568
3203So, basically, if someone dies,
3204we’re doing it wrong?
3205
3206693
320700:35:11,652 --> 00:35:13,570
3208If the president
3209deemed it necessary
3210
3211694
321200:35:13,654 --> 00:35:16,532
3213to... crush the testicles
3214of a child
3215
3216695
321700:35:16,615 --> 00:35:18,617
3218to stop a plane
3219from crashing into a building,
3220
3221696
322200:35:18,700 --> 00:35:19,993
3223to save American lives,
3224
3225697
322600:35:20,077 --> 00:35:22,955
3227there is no law or treaty
3228that could stop him.
3229
3230698
323100:35:23,038 --> 00:35:25,749
3232I can make
3233the same argument for
3234
3235699
323600:35:25,833 --> 00:35:29,044
3237gouging out a prisoner’s eyes
3238or dousing him with acid.
3239
3240700
324100:35:30,128 --> 00:35:31,505
3242In our opinion,
3243
3244701
324500:35:31,588 --> 00:35:36,802
3246if it provides unique
3247intelligence that saves lives,
3248
3249702
325000:35:36,885 --> 00:35:39,012
3251and doesn’t cause
3252any lasting harm,
3253
3254703
325500:35:39,096 --> 00:35:41,223
3256then it’s legal
3257for the president to order it.
3258
3259704
326000:35:41,306 --> 00:35:43,433
3261What do we mean
3262when we say "unique"?
3263
3264705
326500:35:43,517 --> 00:35:46,144
3266Intelligence that couldn’t have
3267been obtained any other way.
3268
3269706
327000:35:48,981 --> 00:35:51,358
3271And you’ve discussed
3272all of this
3273
3274707
327500:35:51,441 --> 00:35:53,235
3276with the White House, I assume?
3277
3278708
327900:35:53,318 --> 00:35:54,695
3280And?
3281
3282709
328300:35:54,778 --> 00:35:57,614
3284Did they tell Bush what
3285they were gonna do to Zubaydah?
3286
3287710
328800:35:57,698 --> 00:35:59,575
3289- No.
3290- And National Security Advisor Rice...
3291
3292711
329300:35:59,658 --> 00:36:01,702
3294- where was she in all this?
3295- National Security Advisor Rice
3296
3297712
329800:36:01,785 --> 00:36:04,204
3299was told about the program,
3300but she was also told
3301
3302713
330300:36:04,288 --> 00:36:06,665
3304the president
3305would not be briefed.
3306
3307714
330800:36:06,748 --> 00:36:08,792
3309Who tells the president’s
3310national security advisor
3311
3312715
331300:36:08,876 --> 00:36:10,836
3314not to brief the president?
3315
3316716
331700:36:12,337 --> 00:36:14,756
3318Cheney and Addington.
3319
3320717
332100:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,260
3322According to CIA records, Bush
3323wasn’t told about the program
3324
3325718
332600:36:18,343 --> 00:36:23,223
3327until April of 2006,
3328four years later.
3329
3330719
333100:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,229
3332And the records we found state
3333
3334720
333500:36:29,313 --> 00:36:32,816
3336that when the president was
3337finally told about the program,
3338
3339721
334000:36:32,900 --> 00:36:36,236
3341he expressed discomfort
3342with the image of a detainee
3343
3344722
334500:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,905
3346chained to the ceiling,
3347wearing a diaper,
3348
3349723
335000:36:37,988 --> 00:36:40,616
3351and forced to go
3352to the bathroom on himself.
3353
3354724
335500:36:40,699 --> 00:36:44,578
3356How long till you can
3357get this thing done, Dan?
3358
3359725
336000:36:44,661 --> 00:36:46,663
3361We’ve got to get this out.
3362
3363726
336400:36:52,085 --> 00:36:54,796
3365What about this guy,
3366Gul Rahman?
3367
3368727
336900:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,341
3370Captured in Peshawar,
3371November 2002.
3372
3373728
337400:36:57,424 --> 00:37:00,594
3375He’s not at Gitmo.
3376He’s-he’s not anywhere.
3377
3378729
337900:37:06,141 --> 00:37:07,893
3380Gul Rahman.
3381
3382730
338300:37:07,976 --> 00:37:09,728
3384Gul...
3385
3386731
338700:37:09,811 --> 00:37:12,606
3388No. They didn’t tell
3389the committee about him.
3390
3391732
339200:37:12,689 --> 00:37:15,275
3393He’s detainee number 24.
3394
3395733
339600:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,783
3397HQ says he knows
3398
3399734
340000:37:22,866 --> 00:37:25,786
3401operational detail
3402about Al Qaeda.
3403
3404735
340500:37:25,869 --> 00:37:27,496
3406The guy’s an asshole.
3407
3408736
340900:37:27,579 --> 00:37:30,207
3410Threw his food at us, he
3411threatened to kill the guards.
3412
3413737
341400:37:30,290 --> 00:37:34,169
3415I’ve asked headquarters
3416to approve the application
3417
3418738
341900:37:34,252 --> 00:37:36,964
3420of the enhanced measures
3421for this detainee,
3422
3423739
342400:37:37,047 --> 00:37:38,715
3425and the request
3426has been approved.
3427
3428740
342900:37:38,799 --> 00:37:42,219
3430- Oh, great. We haven’t had any luck loosening him up.
3431- Mm.
3432
3433741
343400:37:42,302 --> 00:37:43,845
3435Come on!
3436
3437742
343800:37:43,929 --> 00:37:45,389
3439Ran him up and down the hall,
3440
3441743
344200:37:45,472 --> 00:37:47,849
3443beat the crap out of him...
3444nothing.
3445
3446744
344700:37:47,933 --> 00:37:52,229
3448Even been trying this thing
3449they call short shackling.
3450
3451745
345200:37:52,312 --> 00:37:54,564
3453Chain a dude’s hands
3454to a bolt on the floor.
3455
3456746
345700:37:56,316 --> 00:37:58,777
3458Then you chain his feet
3459to the same bolt.
3460
3461747
346200:37:58,860 --> 00:38:01,571
3463Farmers call it hog-tying,
3464I think.
3465
3466748
346700:38:01,655 --> 00:38:04,116
3468He finally admitted
3469to something.
3470
3471749
347200:38:04,199 --> 00:38:05,450
3473What was that?
3474
3475750
347600:38:05,534 --> 00:38:09,621
3477That he was who we said he was:
3478Gul Rahman.
3479
3480751
348100:38:11,915 --> 00:38:17,337
3482What you want to do first is
3483take away his sense of control.
3484
3485752
348600:38:17,421 --> 00:38:19,840
3487If you like, I could spend
3488some time showing you
3489
3490753
349100:38:19,923 --> 00:38:23,010
3492how to achieve this
3493with the enhanced techniques.
3494
3495754
349600:38:24,594 --> 00:38:25,887
3497Great.
3498
3499755
350000:38:25,971 --> 00:38:29,141
3501We got another 30 guys here
3502to deal with.
3503
3504756
350500:38:30,934 --> 00:38:34,604
3506I heard you told the doctor
3507you were cold.
3508
3509757
351000:38:37,858 --> 00:38:39,234
3511♪ The beautiful people ♪
3512
3513758
351400:38:39,317 --> 00:38:41,194
3515- ♪ The beautiful people ♪
3516- ♪ Ah ♪
3517
3518759
351900:38:41,278 --> 00:38:42,779
3520♪ The beautiful people ♪
3521
3522760
352300:38:42,863 --> 00:38:44,114
3524- ♪ The beautiful people ♪
3525- ♪ Ah... ♪
3526
3527761
352800:38:53,081 --> 00:38:55,417
3529Senator, do you have
3530a few minutes this morning?
3531
3532762
353300:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,295
3534Absolutely. Come on in, Dan.
3535
3536763
353700:38:58,378 --> 00:39:00,964
3538The senator is
3539needed on the floor for a vote.
3540
3541764
354200:39:01,048 --> 00:39:02,883
3543Uh, give her five minutes.
3544
3545765
354600:39:04,551 --> 00:39:06,928
3547Did you sleep last night, Dan?
3548
3549766
355000:39:10,057 --> 00:39:12,309
3551Uh, Senator, a prisoner died.
3552
3553767
355400:39:12,392 --> 00:39:14,019
3555♪ There’s no time ♪
3556
3557768
355800:39:14,102 --> 00:39:16,772
3559♪ To discriminate,
3560hate every motherfucker ♪
3561
3562769
356300:39:16,855 --> 00:39:18,065
3564♪ That’s in your... ♪
3565
3566770
356700:39:18,148 --> 00:39:20,609
3568Gul Rahman.
3569
3570771
357100:39:20,692 --> 00:39:23,070
3572They thought he was maybe
3573working for an Afghan warlord
3574
3575772
357600:39:23,153 --> 00:39:24,988
3577or that he knew something
3578about an attack.
3579
3580773
358100:39:25,072 --> 00:39:26,865
3582- Did he?
3583- No, he died before they found out
3584
3585774
358600:39:26,948 --> 00:39:28,825
3587anything besides his name.
3588
3589775
359000:39:28,909 --> 00:39:30,410
3591Dumped cold water on him
3592one night
3593
3594776
359500:39:30,494 --> 00:39:32,412
3596and found him dead in his cell
3597in the morning.
3598
3599777
360000:39:32,496 --> 00:39:33,997
3601The autopsy said hypothermia.
3602
3603778
360400:39:34,081 --> 00:39:37,250
3605- Where did you get this from?
3606- Inspector general’s report.
3607
3608779
360900:39:37,334 --> 00:39:41,713
3610CIA did their own investigation
3611into the death of Gul Rahman.
3612
3613780
361400:39:43,882 --> 00:39:45,592
3615The officer in charge
3616was recommended
3617
3618781
361900:39:45,675 --> 00:39:47,260
3620for a performance bonus.
3621
3622782
362300:39:47,344 --> 00:39:48,595
3624They promoted him.
3625
3626783
362700:39:48,678 --> 00:39:50,680
3628He’s still out there
3629in the field.
3630
3631784
363200:39:55,102 --> 00:39:58,814
3633Well, are you accusing the CIA
3634of murder, Dan?
3635
3636785
363700:40:00,690 --> 00:40:03,026
3638Because that sounds like
3639where this is going.
3640
3641786
364200:40:03,110 --> 00:40:04,903
3643We have proof
3644the deputy director
3645
3646787
364700:40:04,986 --> 00:40:08,031
3648coached the officer in charge
3649how to cover up what happened,
3650
3651788
365200:40:08,115 --> 00:40:10,534
3653told him to be careful
3654what he put in writing.
3655
3656789
365700:40:12,119 --> 00:40:13,870
3658So, why would they need
3659to cover it up
3660
3661790
366200:40:13,954 --> 00:40:15,914
3663if they were following
3664standard operating procedure?
3665
3666791
366700:40:16,998 --> 00:40:18,542
3668Why didn’t they tell
3669the committee?
3670
3671792
367200:40:18,625 --> 00:40:20,877
3673Why didn’t they tell you?
3674
3675793
367600:40:25,048 --> 00:40:27,551
3677I’m gonna need to review
3678all this personally.
3679
3680794
368100:40:29,136 --> 00:40:30,554
3682It’s very disconcerting.
3683
3684795
368500:40:39,062 --> 00:40:41,606
3686"Disconcerting"?
3687"Very disconcerting"?
3688
3689796
369000:40:41,690 --> 00:40:43,358
3691Dan, you need to be
3692careful here.
3693
3694797
369500:40:43,441 --> 00:40:45,861
3696You’re getting
3697emotionally involved.
3698
3699798
370000:40:45,944 --> 00:40:48,989
3701They fucking killed a guy, and
3702nobody was held accountable?
3703
3704799
370500:40:50,574 --> 00:40:52,325
3706W-We don’t know
3707he was a terrorist.
3708
3709800
371000:40:52,409 --> 00:40:55,287
3711- We barely even know his name.
3712- I understand.
3713
3714801
371500:40:55,370 --> 00:40:57,164
3716And what you need
3717to understand is that
3718
3719802
372000:40:57,247 --> 00:41:00,167
3721her name is going
3722on this report, not yours.
3723
3724803
372500:41:00,250 --> 00:41:02,043
3726Senate staff doesn’t
3727have to run for reelection,
3728
3729804
373000:41:02,127 --> 00:41:03,545
3731but she does.
3732
3733805
373400:41:03,628 --> 00:41:06,882
3735Their legal argument said EITs
3736wouldn’t cause lasting harm.
3737
3738806
373900:41:06,965 --> 00:41:09,718
3740So how long is Gul Rahman
3741gonna be dead for?
3742
3743807
374400:41:19,269 --> 00:41:21,521
3745Are you guys seeing
3746this Panetta review?
3747
3748808
374900:41:21,605 --> 00:41:23,190
3750It just showed up.
3751
3752809
375300:41:25,066 --> 00:41:26,443
3754I don’t understand.
3755
3756810
375700:41:26,526 --> 00:41:29,362
3758Looks like the CIA did
3759their own investigation.
3760
3761811
376200:41:29,446 --> 00:41:32,032
3763It confirms everything
3764we’ve been finding.
3765
3766812
376700:41:37,287 --> 00:41:41,333
3768So, what are you
3769gonna do with it?
3770
3771813
377200:41:41,416 --> 00:41:43,376
3773Hopefully, nothing.
3774
3775814
377600:41:43,460 --> 00:41:45,670
3777Special Prosecutor Durham,
3778please?
3779
3780815
378100:41:45,754 --> 00:41:48,423
3782I’ve already left
3783several messages.
3784
3785816
378600:41:48,506 --> 00:41:50,634
3787It’s Dan Jones again from
3788the Intelligence Committee.
3789
3790817
379100:41:50,717 --> 00:41:51,968
3792How are you?
3793
3794818
379500:41:52,052 --> 00:41:54,346
3796Good. I just wanted
3797to check in again to see
3798
3799819
380000:41:54,429 --> 00:41:56,014
3801if the special prosecutor
3802is available
3803
3804820
380500:41:56,097 --> 00:41:57,599
3806to meet on the CIA probe.
3807
3808821
380900:41:59,059 --> 00:42:01,937
3810It can be off the record.
3811I just want to compare notes.
3812
3813822
381400:42:04,522 --> 00:42:06,316
3815Yeah, same number.
3816Thank you.
3817
3818823
381900:42:10,445 --> 00:42:12,155
3820You know, we got to think back
3821
3822824
382300:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,365
3824to the period after 9/11.
3825
3826825
382700:42:13,448 --> 00:42:14,908
3828We didn’t even know who hit us.
3829
3830826
383100:42:14,991 --> 00:42:16,284
3832We didn’t know that
3833Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was
3834
3835827
383600:42:16,368 --> 00:42:17,661
3837the mastermind of 9/11
3838
3839828
384000:42:17,744 --> 00:42:19,329
3841or the operational commander
3842of Al Qaeda.
3843
3844829
384500:42:19,412 --> 00:42:20,872
3846And then we started rounding up
3847these terrorists.
3848
3849830
385000:42:20,956 --> 00:42:22,207
3851We caught Abu Zubaydah.
3852
3853831
385400:42:22,290 --> 00:42:24,292
3855We caught, uh,
3856Ramzi bin al-Shibh and KSM.
3857
3858832
385900:42:24,376 --> 00:42:26,795
3860And these guys provided us
3861information under questioning
3862
3863833
386400:42:26,878 --> 00:42:30,257
3865by the CIA that stopped
3866a number of terrorist attacks.
3867
3868834
386900:42:30,340 --> 00:42:31,800
3870They were pl-planning
3871to blow up
3872
3873835
387400:42:31,883 --> 00:42:33,385
3875the U.S. consulate
3876in Karachi, Pakistan.
3877
3878836
387900:42:33,468 --> 00:42:35,011
3880- Shit.
3881- They were planning to blow up
3882
3883837
388400:42:35,095 --> 00:42:36,137
3885our Marine camp in Djibouti...
3886
3887838
388800:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,562
3889- Good morning.
3890- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was
3891
3892839
389300:42:44,646 --> 00:42:49,401
3894indicted in New York for trying
3895to blow up airplanes in 1995.
3896
3897840
389800:42:49,484 --> 00:42:50,902
3899The CIA already knew about him.
3900
3901841
390200:42:50,986 --> 00:42:52,654
3903They knew he was close
3904to bin Laden.
3905
3906842
390700:42:52,737 --> 00:42:54,281
3908They knew about him before
3909Zubaydah ever identified him.
3910
3911843
391200:42:54,364 --> 00:42:55,740
3913How long have you been here?
3914
3915844
391600:42:55,824 --> 00:42:57,659
3917Also, according to this cable...
3918a few hours...
3919
3920845
392100:42:57,742 --> 00:42:59,244
3922a CIA officer in Islamabad
3923
3924846
392500:42:59,327 --> 00:43:01,204
3926began working someone
3927they call Asset X.
3928
3929847
393000:43:01,288 --> 00:43:04,874
3931X claimed to have
3932direct access to KSM,
3933
3934848
393500:43:04,958 --> 00:43:07,294
3936but was eventually turned away
3937when he asked for money.
3938
3939849
394000:43:08,378 --> 00:43:10,755
3941- How much money?
3942- Few thousand bucks.
3943
3944850
394500:43:10,839 --> 00:43:13,133
3946Two years later, after
3947they’ve been putting him off,
3948
3949851
395000:43:13,216 --> 00:43:15,510
3951putting him off, putting him
3952off, they finally pay him,
3953
3954852
395500:43:15,593 --> 00:43:17,095
3956and almost immediately
3957he sends a text
3958
3959853
396000:43:17,178 --> 00:43:19,639
3961to his CIA handler saying:
3962"I’m with KSM."
3963
3964854
396500:43:19,723 --> 00:43:22,225
3966It had nothing to do
3967with the waterboard.
3968
3969855
397000:43:22,309 --> 00:43:24,894
3971- Good morning.
3972- Good morning.
3973
3974856
397500:43:41,161 --> 00:43:43,830
3976One, two, three,
3977
3978857
397900:43:43,913 --> 00:43:46,082
3980four, five, six...
3981
3982858
398300:43:46,166 --> 00:43:48,626
3984Who are you
3985working with in the U.S.?
3986
3987859
398800:43:48,710 --> 00:43:51,838
3989...seven, eight, nine,
399010, 11...
3991
3992860
399300:43:51,921 --> 00:43:53,882
3994We have your kids!
3995
3996861
399700:43:53,965 --> 00:43:56,551
3998- ...12, 13, 14, 15,
3999- ♪ Yankee Doodle, keep it up ♪
4000
4001862
400200:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,511
4003- 16, 17...
4004- ♪ Yankee Doodle dandy... ♪
4005
4006863
400700:43:58,595 --> 00:44:01,264
4008It will stop if you talk!
4009
4010864
401100:44:01,348 --> 00:44:04,559
4012♪ And with the girls be handy,
4013Yankee Doodle... ♪
4014
4015865
401600:44:04,642 --> 00:44:06,770
4017Where is the next attack?
4018
4019866
402000:44:06,853 --> 00:44:08,104
4021Canary Wharf! Canary Wharf!
4022
4023867
402400:44:08,188 --> 00:44:09,939
4025♪ Stuck a feather in ♪
4026
4027868
402800:44:10,023 --> 00:44:11,608
4029♪ His hat and called it... ♪
4030
4031869
403200:44:11,691 --> 00:44:12,859
4033Okay, here’s the problem.
4034
4035870
403600:44:12,942 --> 00:44:14,527
4037We already know about
4038
4039871
404000:44:14,611 --> 00:44:16,738
4041the Heathrow
4042and Canary Wharf plots.
4043
4044872
404500:44:16,821 --> 00:44:19,407
4046He knows that.
4047It’s in his goddamn notebook.
4048
4049873
405000:44:19,491 --> 00:44:21,701
4051We asked about plots
4052in the U.S., not London.
4053
4054874
405500:44:21,785 --> 00:44:24,120
4056- He’s fucking with you again.
4057- To be honest,
4058
4059875
406000:44:24,204 --> 00:44:27,165
4061I’ve never met a resistor
4062like this guy.
4063
4064876
406500:44:27,248 --> 00:44:28,750
4066He’s a super resistor.
4067
4068877
406900:44:28,833 --> 00:44:30,502
4070He lied to you
4071to make you stop.
4072
4073878
407400:44:30,585 --> 00:44:32,670
4075He just tells us shit
4076he knows we already have.
4077
4078879
407900:44:32,754 --> 00:44:34,089
4080That’s all he does.
4081
4082880
408300:44:34,172 --> 00:44:36,716
4084Then that’s
4085what we’re learning.
4086
4087881
408800:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,387
4089That’s what the waterboard
4090is giving us.
4091
4092882
409300:44:41,971 --> 00:44:44,724
4094We now know he’s lying.
4095
4096883
409700:44:44,808 --> 00:44:46,851
4098I thought it was meant
4099to give us the truth.
4100
4101884
410200:44:46,935 --> 00:44:50,855
4103And... the truth is he’s lying.
4104
4105885
410600:44:58,196 --> 00:45:01,199
4107Headquarters says we go again.
4108
4109886
411000:45:02,492 --> 00:45:04,160
4111The chief of interrogations
4112
4113887
411400:45:04,244 --> 00:45:06,579
4115ordered the rectal rehydration
4116of KSM,
4117
4118888
411900:45:06,663 --> 00:45:08,415
4120not for health reasons,
4121
4122889
412300:45:08,498 --> 00:45:10,792
4124but as a way of showing total
4125control over the detainee.
4126
4127890
412800:45:10,875 --> 00:45:13,753
4129Even though
4130rectal rehydration was never
4131
4132891
413300:45:13,837 --> 00:45:15,672
4134an approved technique.
4135
4136892
413700:45:15,755 --> 00:45:17,590
4138Total control isn’t
4139chaining the guy to the wall,
4140
4141893
414200:45:17,674 --> 00:45:19,509
4143keeping him awake for days,
4144and threatening his family?
4145
4146894
414700:45:19,592 --> 00:45:21,219
4148You need to shove a tube
4149up his ass?
4150
4151895
415200:45:21,302 --> 00:45:22,846
4153This right here
4154
4155896
415600:45:22,929 --> 00:45:24,472
4157is the rest of your life
4158
4159897
416000:45:24,556 --> 00:45:26,599
4161unless you start telling the truth.
4162
4163898
416400:45:26,683 --> 00:45:28,184
4165Then they went back
4166to waterboarding him.
4167
4168899
416900:45:28,268 --> 00:45:29,853
4170"When a medical officer
4171pressed on KSM’s..."
4172
4173900
417400:45:29,936 --> 00:45:31,563
4175- Wait. Where are you?
4176- Next page.
4177
4178901
417900:45:31,646 --> 00:45:33,648
4180"When a medical officer
4181pressed on KSM’s abdomen,
4182
4183902
418400:45:33,731 --> 00:45:35,692
4185he expressed water
4186from his mouth and nose."
4187
4188903
418900:45:35,775 --> 00:45:37,694
4190So, he was swallowing
4191all the water.
4192
4193904
419400:45:37,777 --> 00:45:39,028
4195"On March 17th,
4196
4197905
419800:45:39,112 --> 00:45:40,864
4199the waterboard technique
4200began to evolve."
4201
4202906
420300:45:43,324 --> 00:45:45,243
4204Interrogators used their hands
4205to maintain
4206
4207907
420800:45:45,326 --> 00:45:48,246
4209a pool of water
4210over KSM’s nose and mouth.
4211
4212908
421300:45:58,715 --> 00:46:02,010
4214Who are
4215the operatives inside the U.S.?
4216
4217909
421800:46:02,093 --> 00:46:04,762
4219Issa... Issa...
4220
4221910
422200:46:04,846 --> 00:46:06,806
4223Issa al-Britani.
4224
4225911
422600:46:08,391 --> 00:46:09,851
4227Where is the next attack?
4228
4229912
423000:46:09,934 --> 00:46:11,686
4231M-Montana.
4232
4233913
423400:46:13,188 --> 00:46:15,482
4235We got something.
4236
4237914
423800:46:17,734 --> 00:46:20,862
4239KSM told interrogators he sent
4240Abu Issa al-Britani to the U.S.
4241
4242915
424300:46:20,945 --> 00:46:24,115
4244to recruit African American
4245Muslims in Montana
4246
4247916
424800:46:24,199 --> 00:46:26,117
4249to blow up gas stations
4250and start forest fires.
4251
4252917
425300:46:26,201 --> 00:46:27,202
4254Montana?
4255
4256918
425700:46:27,285 --> 00:46:29,412
4258Muslims in Montana?
4259
4260919
426100:46:29,496 --> 00:46:31,831
4262The FBI had serious doubts
4263as well.
4264
4265920
426600:46:31,915 --> 00:46:34,334
4267Later, KSM admitted
4268he just told them
4269
4270921
427100:46:34,417 --> 00:46:36,794
4272what they wanted to hear
4273to make it stop.
4274
4275922
427600:46:36,878 --> 00:46:40,632
4277So, did they get anything
4278actionable from him at all?
4279
4280923
428100:46:40,715 --> 00:46:42,175
4282Anything that saved lives?
4283
4284924
428500:46:42,258 --> 00:46:45,595
4286They waterboarded him
4287183 times, and then concluded
4288
4289925
429000:46:45,678 --> 00:46:47,764
4291KSM may never be
4292forthcoming or honest.
4293
4294926
429500:46:47,847 --> 00:46:49,599
4296Everything they got from him
4297
4298927
429900:46:49,682 --> 00:46:52,769
4300was either a lie
4301or something they already had.
4302
4303928
430400:46:52,852 --> 00:46:55,522
4305Well, okay,
4306so my first question is:
4307
4308929
430900:46:55,605 --> 00:46:59,859
4310If it works, why do you need
4311to do it 183 times?
4312
4313930
431400:47:00,944 --> 00:47:02,320
4315Maybe when
4316the report comes out,
4317
4318931
431900:47:02,403 --> 00:47:04,030
4320people will finally see that.
4321
4322932
432300:47:04,113 --> 00:47:07,367
4324Well, let’s worry about getting
4325it right, getting it done.
4326
4327933
432800:47:07,450 --> 00:47:09,827
4329We can worry about
4330changing the world later.
4331
4332934
433300:47:24,467 --> 00:47:26,261
4334Sorry I’m late.
4335
4336935
433700:47:26,344 --> 00:47:28,388
4338It’s okay.
4339
4340936
434100:47:28,471 --> 00:47:31,099
4342- Barely slept.
4343- Want some coffee?
4344
4345937
434600:47:34,602 --> 00:47:36,521
4347Hey, can I ask you something?
4348
4349938
435000:47:36,604 --> 00:47:38,856
4351You ever, uh, have dreams,
4352
4353939
435400:47:38,940 --> 00:47:41,568
4355you know, about the stuff
4356that’s in the report?
4357
4358940
435900:47:43,069 --> 00:47:45,905
4360Yeah. I have one
4361where I’m drowning.
4362
4363941
436400:47:45,989 --> 00:47:48,366
4365I can’t move my arms or legs.
4366I can’t breathe.
4367
4368942
436900:47:48,449 --> 00:47:50,743
4370- That wakes me up.
4371- Last night I dreamt
4372
4373943
437400:47:50,827 --> 00:47:53,705
4375I was trapped in
4376one of those confinement boxes.
4377
4378944
437900:47:53,788 --> 00:47:55,540
4380They just left me there.
4381
4382945
438300:47:55,623 --> 00:47:58,167
4384Daniel Jones, right?
4385
4386946
438700:47:58,251 --> 00:48:00,628
4388- Do I know you?
4389- I just wanted to tell you to your face
4390
4391947
439200:48:00,712 --> 00:48:02,755
4393that I think you
4394and that report are garbage.
4395
4396948
439700:48:02,839 --> 00:48:04,507
4398- Excuse me...
4399- You weren’t there,
4400
4401949
440200:48:04,591 --> 00:48:06,467
4403so you don’t know
4404what worked and what didn’t
4405
4406950
440700:48:06,551 --> 00:48:07,719
4408or what we were up against.
4409
4410951
441100:48:07,802 --> 00:48:09,512
4412You may not realize,
4413but we were trying
4414
4415952
441600:48:09,596 --> 00:48:11,764
4417to protect this country
4418from people who want to destroy
4419
4420953
442100:48:11,848 --> 00:48:13,141
4422everything we believe in.
4423
4424954
442500:48:13,224 --> 00:48:15,059
4426You may not realize it,
4427
4428955
442900:48:15,143 --> 00:48:17,437
4430but we’re trying to do
4431the exact same thing.
4432
4433956
443400:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,940
4435Your bullshit report will
4436never see the light of day.
4437
4438957
443900:48:24,986 --> 00:48:27,113
4440Special Prosecutor
4441Durham, please.
4442
4443958
444400:48:27,196 --> 00:48:29,282
4445It’s Dan Jones, calling again
4446
4447959
444800:48:29,365 --> 00:48:32,285
4449about the Justice Department
4450investigation of the CIA.
4451
4452960
445300:48:32,368 --> 00:48:34,078
4454We really need to meet.
4455
4456961
445700:48:35,663 --> 00:48:37,123
4458You have?
4459
4460962
446100:48:38,708 --> 00:48:40,960
4462Okay, what are their findings?
4463
4464963
446500:48:51,304 --> 00:48:53,139
4466Fuck!
4467
4468964
446900:48:53,222 --> 00:48:55,016
4470Nothing?
4471
4472965
447300:48:55,099 --> 00:48:56,601
4474No indictments at all?
4475
4476966
447700:48:56,684 --> 00:48:58,770
4478No charges against
4479Jose Rodriguez or Gina Haspel
4480
4481967
448200:48:58,853 --> 00:49:00,229
4483for destroying the tapes.
4484
4485968
448600:49:00,313 --> 00:49:02,523
4487Nothing against the CIA
4488for torturing people.
4489
4490969
449100:49:02,607 --> 00:49:04,108
4492Nothing against
4493Jim Pavitt and the others
4494
4495970
449600:49:04,192 --> 00:49:06,402
4497for providing misinformation,
4498nothing at all.
4499
4500971
450100:49:06,486 --> 00:49:08,655
4502DOJ says they don’t have
4503enough admissible evidence
4504
4505972
450600:49:08,738 --> 00:49:10,698
4507to convict anyone.
4508
4509973
451000:49:10,782 --> 00:49:12,742
4511You go after the contractors,
4512and they’re indemnified.
4513
4514974
451500:49:12,825 --> 00:49:14,202
4516You go after
4517the head of Counterterrorism,
4518
4519975
452000:49:14,285 --> 00:49:15,995
4521and he’d just say
4522he was following orders
4523
4524976
452500:49:16,079 --> 00:49:17,205
4526from the CIA director.
4527
4528977
452900:49:17,288 --> 00:49:18,581
4530You go after the director,
4531and he...
4532
4533978
453400:49:18,665 --> 00:49:20,208
4535well, he would just cite
4536the president.
4537
4538979
453900:49:20,291 --> 00:49:21,793
4540Then the White House
4541would claim national security.
4542
4543980
454400:49:21,876 --> 00:49:24,796
4545DOJ at least share
4546what they found?
4547
4548981
454900:49:24,879 --> 00:49:25,922
4550No.
4551
4552982
455300:49:28,007 --> 00:49:30,551
4554They won’t turn anything over.
4555
4556983
455700:49:32,220 --> 00:49:33,971
4558We’re the only ones
4559still looking at this.
4560
4561984
456200:49:52,073 --> 00:49:53,908
4563Dan?
4564
4565985
456600:49:55,493 --> 00:49:56,494
4567Dan?
4568
4569986
457000:49:56,577 --> 00:49:58,454
4571You know a CIA officer
4572
4573987
457400:49:58,538 --> 00:50:00,748
4575testified before Congress
4576in 1978 regarding the use of
4577
4578988
457900:50:00,832 --> 00:50:03,960
4580coercive physical interrogation
4581techniques in Latin America?
4582
4583989
458400:50:04,043 --> 00:50:05,837
4585And the officer said
4586the techniques result
4587
4588990
458900:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,214
4590in false answers and have
4591proven to be ineffective.
4592
4593991
459400:50:08,297 --> 00:50:09,757
4595And before Latin America,
4596they did it in Vietnam.
4597
4598992
459900:50:09,841 --> 00:50:10,842
4600They knew it didn’t work...
4601
4602993
460300:50:10,925 --> 00:50:12,176
4604Dan, I need
4605to tell you something.
4606
4607994
460800:50:12,260 --> 00:50:13,720
4609...and they did it again.
4610
4611995
461200:50:13,803 --> 00:50:14,804
4613Don’t even listen
4614to their own fucking people.
4615
4616996
461700:50:14,887 --> 00:50:16,305
4618I’m leaving the study.
4619
4620997
462100:50:16,389 --> 00:50:20,351
4622I... I got a job offer,
4623and I can’t turn it down.
4624
4625998
462600:50:20,435 --> 00:50:23,896
4627I’m sorry, but don’t you see
4628what this is doing to you?
4629
4630999
463100:50:23,980 --> 00:50:25,148
4632To all of us?
4633
46341000
463500:50:25,231 --> 00:50:26,941
4636I mean, my kids
4637are at home growing up,
4638
46391001
464000:50:27,024 --> 00:50:30,153
4641and I’m down here reading about
4642how they put a power drill
4643
46441002
464500:50:30,236 --> 00:50:31,863
4646against one guy’s head
4647and-and how they pulled
4648
46491003
465000:50:31,946 --> 00:50:33,489
4651another guy’s arms
4652out of his sockets.
4653
46541004
465500:50:33,573 --> 00:50:35,408
4656And I just... this is
4657how I’m spending my Sundays.
4658
46591005
466000:50:35,491 --> 00:50:37,034
4661And my Saturdays.
4662
46631006
466400:50:37,118 --> 00:50:39,746
4665This is how I spend every day.
4666
46671007
466800:50:39,829 --> 00:50:42,999
4669I just... I-I-I-I can’t.
4670
46711008
467200:50:43,082 --> 00:50:47,128
4673Um... I’m gonna leave
4674after Thanksgiving.
4675
46761009
467700:50:53,217 --> 00:50:55,178
4678Okay. I understand.
4679
46801010
468100:50:55,261 --> 00:50:56,804
4682Okay.
4683
46841011
468500:50:56,888 --> 00:50:58,264
4686Thanksgiving.
4687
46881012
468900:50:58,347 --> 00:51:01,517
4690That gives us...
4691that gives us a couple months.
4692
46931013
469400:51:01,601 --> 00:51:04,937
4695Dan, it’s November.
4696
46971014
469800:51:05,021 --> 00:51:07,774
4699Thanksgiving is next week.
4700
47011015
470200:51:09,692 --> 00:51:12,862
4703How many pages have
4704we written so far? Thousands?
4705
47061016
470700:51:12,945 --> 00:51:16,324
4708We don’t even know
4709if this is ever gonna come out.
4710
47111017
471200:51:16,407 --> 00:51:18,826
4713The tapes investigation
4714never did.
4715
47161018
471700:51:18,910 --> 00:51:20,411
4718It’s still classified.
4719
47201019
472100:51:20,495 --> 00:51:22,038
4722You just said it yourself:
4723
47241020
472500:51:22,121 --> 00:51:24,499
4726The CIA knew
4727this shit didn’t work in 1978,
4728
47291021
473000:51:24,582 --> 00:51:27,001
4731and it didn’t stop them
4732from doing it again.
4733
47341022
473500:51:28,586 --> 00:51:30,922
4736Look, we’ve been down here
4737for two years, Dan,
4738
47391023
474000:51:31,005 --> 00:51:33,633
4741in this basement.
4742
47431024
474400:51:33,716 --> 00:51:36,511
4745Nobody’s waiting for us
4746to come out.
4747
47481025
474900:52:14,507 --> 00:52:16,759
4750...shocking photos that
4751apparently show U.S. troops
4752
47531026
475400:52:16,843 --> 00:52:19,804
4755abusing detainees in a prison
4756outside Baghdad.
4757
47581027
475900:52:19,887 --> 00:52:21,347
4760We have a problem.
4761
47621028
476300:52:21,430 --> 00:52:23,891
4764Both myself and the president
4765have gone on record
4766
47671029
476800:52:23,975 --> 00:52:26,310
4769saying we do not
4770torture people.
4771
47721030
477300:52:26,394 --> 00:52:29,355
4774He just made a statement
4775for the U.N.’s goddamn
4776
47771031
477800:52:29,438 --> 00:52:32,483
4779Day in Support
4780of Victims of Torture.
4781
47821032
478300:52:32,567 --> 00:52:34,777
4784Wh-What-what did he say?
4785
47861033
478700:52:37,321 --> 00:52:39,615
4788"The United States
4789does not torture.
4790
47911034
479200:52:39,699 --> 00:52:42,994
4793It’s against our laws
4794and it’s against our values.
4795
47961035
479700:52:43,077 --> 00:52:48,416
4798I have not authorized it,
4799and I will not authorize it."
4800
48011036
480200:52:50,334 --> 00:52:53,379
4803I’m not sure where
4804that leaves either of us.
4805
48061037
480700:52:53,462 --> 00:52:55,506
4808So, here’s the deal.
4809
48101038
481100:52:55,590 --> 00:52:59,093
4812Some new lawyer over at OLC,
4813Jack Goldsmith,
4814
48151039
481600:52:59,176 --> 00:53:01,679
4817is saying there are issues
4818with the John Yoo memo.
4819
48201040
482100:53:01,762 --> 00:53:03,139
4822Legal issues?
4823
48241041
482500:53:03,222 --> 00:53:05,474
4826Yeah, and there’s
4827the inspector general’s report:
4828
48291042
483000:53:05,558 --> 00:53:08,185
4831allegations of
4832war crimes and torture.
4833
48341043
483500:53:08,269 --> 00:53:11,564
4836Throws the whole
4837program under the goddamn bus.
4838
48391044
484000:53:11,647 --> 00:53:13,274
4841What’s it say?
4842
48431045
484400:53:13,357 --> 00:53:17,069
4845"The inspector general finds
4846that EITs are inconsistent
4847
48481046
484900:53:17,153 --> 00:53:18,613
4850with the
4851public policy positions
4852
48531047
485400:53:18,696 --> 00:53:22,116
4855the United States has taken
4856regarding human rights,"
4857
48581048
485900:53:22,199 --> 00:53:23,993
4860blah, blah, blah.
4861
48621049
486300:53:24,076 --> 00:53:26,078
4864"The program, as implemented,
4865
48661050
486700:53:26,162 --> 00:53:30,958
4868diverges sharply from how the
4869CIA has described," blah, blah.
4870
48711051
487200:53:31,042 --> 00:53:33,878
4873"There is also little evidence
4874that the waterboard
4875
48761052
487700:53:33,961 --> 00:53:36,756
4878is effective
4879in gaining information."
4880
48811053
488200:53:36,839 --> 00:53:39,550
4883Look, guys, Director Tenet
4884wants to pause the program.
4885
48861054
488700:53:41,636 --> 00:53:44,013
4888You know, I retired
4889from the Air Force
4890
48911055
489200:53:44,096 --> 00:53:47,558
4893just a couple of months
4894before 9/11.
4895
48961056
489700:53:47,642 --> 00:53:49,310
489822 years.
4899
49001057
490100:53:50,895 --> 00:53:53,522
4902And then
4903I wake up that morning,
4904
49051058
490600:53:53,606 --> 00:53:59,946
4907and I turn on the news and...
4908see what’s happening.
4909
49101059
491100:54:01,572 --> 00:54:06,577
4912A lot of people just went back
4913to their coffee and cornflakes.
4914
49151060
491600:54:06,661 --> 00:54:10,831
4917But Jim wanted
4918to do something
4919
49201061
492100:54:10,915 --> 00:54:13,501
4922to keep people safe.
4923
49241062
492500:54:13,584 --> 00:54:16,671
4926We are going right back to the
4927National Security Council today
4928
49291063
493000:54:16,754 --> 00:54:18,714
4931and asking to have
4932the program recertified,
4933
49341064
493500:54:18,798 --> 00:54:20,508
4936as many techniques as possible.
4937
49381065
493900:54:20,591 --> 00:54:22,885
4940We have a plan.
4941
49421066
494300:54:22,969 --> 00:54:24,971
4944Thank you. Thank you.
4945
49461067
494700:54:44,865 --> 00:54:46,158
4948Jones.
4949
49501068
495100:54:47,243 --> 00:54:48,411
4952Yes, Senator.
4953
49541069
495500:54:58,004 --> 00:54:59,338
4956On the Sunday talk shows,
4957
49581070
495900:54:59,422 --> 00:55:01,007
4960former Defense Secretary
4961Donald Rumsfeld
4962
49631071
496400:55:01,090 --> 00:55:03,134
4965and former Vice President
4966Dick Cheney
4967
49681072
496900:55:03,217 --> 00:55:06,804
4970argued enhanced interrogation
4971techniques played a major role
4972
49731073
497400:55:06,887 --> 00:55:09,265
4975in leading up to the raid
4976on bin Laden’s compound.
4977
49781074
497900:55:09,348 --> 00:55:11,308
4980No, that’s not right.
4981That’s not what happened.
4982
49831075
498400:55:11,392 --> 00:55:13,227
4985- It was not torture.
4986- I’ll look into it.
4987
49881076
498900:55:13,310 --> 00:55:15,563
4990And, uh, I would strongly
4991recommend that we continue it.
4992
49931077
499400:55:15,646 --> 00:55:17,356
4995At the heart of the controversy
4996
49971078
499800:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,859
4999is a process called
5000waterboarding.
5001
50021079
500300:55:21,944 --> 00:55:24,238
5004Okay, here’s what
5005the CIA is claiming:
5006
50071080
500800:55:24,321 --> 00:55:28,576
5009They got bin Laden after using
5010EITs against detainees.
5011
50121081
501300:55:30,870 --> 00:55:36,208
5014They say it all started in 2002
5015with Abu Zubaydah
5016
50171082
501800:55:36,292 --> 00:55:39,587
5019and a detainee they called
5020"Riyadh the Facilitator,"
5021
50221083
502300:55:39,670 --> 00:55:41,881
5024who tipped them off
5025to Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti,
5026
50271084
502800:55:41,964 --> 00:55:43,174
5029who had ties to bin Laden.
5030
50311085
503200:55:43,257 --> 00:55:44,884
5033That’s not what happened?
5034
50351086
503600:55:44,967 --> 00:55:47,470
5037The truth is the CIA
5038was on al-Kuwaiti’s phones,
5039
50401087
504100:55:47,553 --> 00:55:51,182
5042e-mails, identity, long before
5043they captured any detainees.
5044
50451088
504600:55:51,265 --> 00:55:56,103
5047Before they even had
5048an EIT program.
5049
50501089
505100:55:56,187 --> 00:55:58,647
5052Zubaydah told us al-Kuwaiti had
5053nothing to do with bin Laden.
5054
50551090
505600:55:58,731 --> 00:56:01,525
5057Same with KSM
5058and-and the others.
5059
50601091
506100:56:01,609 --> 00:56:04,612
5062But now we have former
5063CIA Director Michael Hayden
5064
50651092
506600:56:04,695 --> 00:56:07,239
5067on the radio saying
5068this all came from EITs.
5069
50701093
507100:56:07,323 --> 00:56:09,909
5072And former Attorney General
5073Mukasey is out there saying
5074
50751094
507600:56:09,992 --> 00:56:12,078
5077KSM broke like a dam
5078after waterboarding.
5079
50801095
508100:56:12,161 --> 00:56:13,621
5082Where is he saying that?
5083
50841096
508500:56:13,704 --> 00:56:16,123
5086Wall Street Journal.
5087I found a memo.
5088
50891097
509000:56:16,207 --> 00:56:17,833
5091It’s from a few months back,
5092in March.
5093
50941098
509500:56:17,917 --> 00:56:19,335
5096It’s called
5097"The Public Roll-out."
5098
50991099
510000:56:19,418 --> 00:56:22,713
5101The memo states the Agency
5102wanted their PR people
5103
51041100
510500:56:22,797 --> 00:56:26,801
5106to connect the bin Laden raid
5107to intel obtained via EITs
5108
51091101
511000:56:26,884 --> 00:56:28,177
5111before it even happened.
5112
51131102
511400:56:28,260 --> 00:56:32,306
5115So... if the CIA got bin Laden,
5116
51171103
511800:56:32,389 --> 00:56:35,226
5119then who cares
5120what else it did?
5121
51221104
512300:56:35,309 --> 00:56:38,187
5124If it saved lives, there’s
5125no need for accountability.
5126
51271105
512800:56:38,270 --> 00:56:40,481
5129Exactly. They lied to Bush
5130about the program.
5131
51321106
513300:56:40,564 --> 00:56:42,316
5134Now they’re lying
5135to President Obama.
5136
51371107
513800:56:42,399 --> 00:56:46,112
5139This document about bin Laden
5140and, uh, the role of EITs,
5141
51421108
514300:56:46,195 --> 00:56:48,030
5144it just isn’t true.
5145
51461109
514700:56:54,745 --> 00:56:57,540
5148You want me to get you
5149the White House?
5150
51511110
515200:56:59,375 --> 00:57:00,918
5153Let’s do that.
5154
51551111
515600:57:03,504 --> 00:57:05,631
5157It’s very clear to us
5158
51591112
516000:57:05,714 --> 00:57:09,635
5161the EITs did not lead
5162to bin Laden.
5163
51641113
516500:57:09,718 --> 00:57:12,346
5166The CIA is misrepresenting
5167the operation.
5168
51691114
517000:57:12,429 --> 00:57:14,306
5171I’m sure you see that,
5172don’t you?
5173
51741115
517500:57:14,390 --> 00:57:16,725
5176McDONOUGH : I’m not
5177sure I understand, Senator.
5178
51791116
518000:57:16,809 --> 00:57:18,769
5181The mission was a success;
5182that’s the headline here.
5183
51841117
518500:57:18,853 --> 00:57:22,231
5186This is a crucial moment
5187in our nation’s history.
5188
51891118
519000:57:22,314 --> 00:57:26,819
5191I want to make certain that the
5192Agency isn’t manipulating it
5193
51941119
519500:57:26,902 --> 00:57:30,197
5196to sanitize
5197their own past actions.
5198
51991120
520000:57:30,281 --> 00:57:32,116
5201I will let
5202the national security advisor
5203
52041121
520500:57:32,199 --> 00:57:34,285
5206know your concerns, Senator.
5207
52081122
520900:57:34,368 --> 00:57:36,704
5210- Thank you.
5211- Thank you, Senator Feinstein.
5212
52131123
521400:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,291
5215That’s it?
5216
52171124
521800:57:40,374 --> 00:57:42,668
5219They don’t care
5220the story is wrong?
5221
52221125
522300:57:44,295 --> 00:57:48,257
5224Well, I don’t think we can look
5225to the White House for support.
5226
52271126
522800:57:57,600 --> 00:57:58,976
5229What the hell just happened?
5230
52311127
523200:57:59,059 --> 00:58:02,354
5233The CIA just got
5234the president reelected.
5235
52361128
523700:58:02,438 --> 00:58:04,231
5238That’s what happened.
5239
52401129
524100:58:07,651 --> 00:58:10,988
5242It was the
5243greatest manhunt of all time.
5244
52451130
524600:58:11,071 --> 00:58:13,616
5247You think you know the story,
5248
52491131
525000:58:13,699 --> 00:58:15,618
5251but hold on to your seats.
5252
52531132
525400:58:15,701 --> 00:58:18,787
5255Zero Dark Thirty,
5256the riveting new film,
5257
52581133
525900:58:18,871 --> 00:58:21,457
5260brings you the hunt
5261for Osama bin Laden
5262
52631134
526400:58:21,540 --> 00:58:24,168
5265as it has never been
5266seen before.
5267
52681135
526900:58:39,183 --> 00:58:41,268
5270This is it.
5271The last guy we have.
5272
52731136
527400:58:41,352 --> 00:58:47,524
5275Number 119: Muhammad Rahim,
5276captured June 2007.
5277
52781137
527900:58:57,076 --> 00:58:58,744
5280We kept Rahim awake
5281
52821138
528300:58:58,827 --> 00:59:00,913
5284for 138 hours straight.
5285
52861139
528700:59:00,996 --> 00:59:03,999
5288Used the attention grasp,
5289
52901140
529100:59:04,083 --> 00:59:07,002
5292facial hold,
5293dietary manipulation.
5294
52951141
529600:59:07,086 --> 00:59:10,422
5297Abdominal slaps,
5298stress positions.
5299
53001142
530100:59:10,506 --> 00:59:13,550
5302We even offered him a towel
5303to wear if he cooperated.
5304
53051143
530600:59:13,634 --> 00:59:14,885
5307Gave us nothing.
5308
53091144
531000:59:14,969 --> 00:59:16,595
5311He said that,
5312if we hurt him,
5313
53141145
531500:59:16,679 --> 00:59:19,932
5316he’d just make things up
5317to get us to stop.
5318
53191146
532000:59:20,015 --> 00:59:22,685
5321And then he said
5322he was at our mercy
5323
53241147
532500:59:22,768 --> 00:59:25,020
5326and we could kill him
5327if we wanted.
5328
53291148
533000:59:25,104 --> 00:59:26,772
5331What’s the point
5332of moving forward
5333
53341149
533500:59:26,855 --> 00:59:28,607
5336without the waterboard?
5337
53381150
533900:59:28,691 --> 00:59:30,818
5340It’s like trying to play
5341baseball without the bat.
5342
53431151
534400:59:30,901 --> 00:59:32,820
5345We’ve been going at him
5346for 60 days now,
5347
53481152
534900:59:32,903 --> 00:59:35,155
5350not getting anywhere.
5351
53521153
535300:59:35,239 --> 00:59:39,326
5354The problem is
5355that CTC hasn’t given us
5356
53571154
535800:59:39,410 --> 00:59:41,287
5359any good intel
5360to question him about.
5361
53621155
536300:59:41,370 --> 00:59:43,038
5364We don’t have any leverage.
5365
53661156
536700:59:43,122 --> 00:59:44,999
5368Hold on.
5369You’re the psychologists.
5370
53711157
537200:59:45,082 --> 00:59:46,834
5373You told me you were
5374gonna get us intel.
5375
53761158
537700:59:46,917 --> 00:59:48,627
5378Now you’re saying
5379we need to give it to you?
5380
53811159
538200:59:48,711 --> 00:59:54,049
5383I’m thinking we improve his
5384treatment for a week or two,
5385
53861160
538700:59:54,133 --> 00:59:58,137
5388give him some hope,
5389and then we go back at him hard
5390
53911161
539200:59:58,220 --> 01:00:00,556
5393and create
5394a sense of helplessness.
5395
53961162
539701:00:00,639 --> 01:00:04,768
5398Or we could try recruiting him.
5399
54001163
540101:00:04,852 --> 01:00:08,522
5402Tell him he can be
5403a CIA agent if he talks.
5404
54051164
540601:00:08,605 --> 01:00:09,982
5407The FBI does that.
5408
54091165
541001:00:10,065 --> 01:00:11,984
5411We’re not the FBI.
5412We don’t do that.
5413
54141166
541501:00:12,067 --> 01:00:14,737
5416The way the science works is
5417
54181167
541901:00:14,820 --> 01:00:16,905
5420we only get the intel after...
5421
54221168
542301:00:16,989 --> 01:00:18,699
5424After what?
5425
54261169
542701:00:18,782 --> 01:00:21,118
5428Why are so many of these guys
5429still lying to us
5430
54311170
543201:00:21,201 --> 01:00:23,329
5433after you work on them?
5434
54351171
543601:00:25,581 --> 01:00:27,833
5437Where’s the special sauce?
5438
54391172
544001:00:30,085 --> 01:00:34,006
5441You have to make this work.
5442It’s only legal if it works.
5443
54441173
544501:00:34,089 --> 01:00:36,884
5446The CIA’s questioning
5447of Muhammad Rahim
5448
54491174
545001:00:36,967 --> 01:00:39,094
5451resulted in
5452zero intelligence reports.
5453
54541175
545501:00:39,178 --> 01:00:42,431
5456On April 21, 2008,
5457the Agency convened
5458
54591176
546001:00:42,514 --> 01:00:44,266
5461an after-action review
5462of his interrogation.
5463
54641177
546501:00:44,350 --> 01:00:46,977
5466Senator, I just want to point
5467out that this is the first time
5468
54691178
547001:00:47,061 --> 01:00:48,645
5471the Agency stopped
5472and evaluated
5473
54741179
547501:00:48,729 --> 01:00:50,230
5476the effectiveness
5477of the program.
5478
54791180
548001:00:51,398 --> 01:00:53,484
5481And they concluded that,
5482in the future,
5483
54841181
548501:00:53,567 --> 01:00:55,569
5486CIA interrogators should use
5487rapport building.
5488
54891182
549001:00:58,781 --> 01:01:01,116
5491They even suggested
5492asking other agencies,
5493
54941183
549501:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,410
5496law enforcement,
5497and even other countries
5498
54991184
550001:01:03,494 --> 01:01:05,245
5501about effective
5502interrogation methods.
5503
55041185
550501:01:07,539 --> 01:01:08,707
5506So...
5507
55081186
550901:01:11,460 --> 01:01:14,004
5510For the past six years,
5511there’s been a steady stream
5512
55131187
551401:01:14,088 --> 01:01:19,676
5515of CIA personnel...
5516directors, deputies, analysts...
5517
55181188
551901:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,553
5520coming over here and telling me
5521
55221189
552301:01:21,637 --> 01:01:25,724
5524what an amazing success
5525EITs have been.
5526
55271190
552801:01:25,808 --> 01:01:29,603
5529Somehow not even one of them
5530managed to mention that part.
5531
55321191
553301:01:34,858 --> 01:01:40,531
5534How many detainees have been
5535through the program in total?
5536
55371192
553801:01:41,615 --> 01:01:43,450
5539At least 119.
5540
55411193
554201:01:45,911 --> 01:01:47,830
5543The Agency admits
5544a quarter of them
5545
55461194
554701:01:47,913 --> 01:01:49,957
5548should never
5549have been detained.
5550
55511195
555201:01:50,040 --> 01:01:54,878
5553The EIT program never worked,
5554not on anyone.
5555
55561196
555701:02:04,555 --> 01:02:07,850
5558Today, we are gathered
5559to approve
5560
55611197
556201:02:07,933 --> 01:02:09,435
5563the committee’s study of
5564
55651198
556601:02:09,518 --> 01:02:14,565
5567the CIA Detention
5568and Interrogation Program.
5569
55701199
557101:02:14,648 --> 01:02:17,317
5572I would like to thank
5573Daniel Jones
5574
55751200
557601:02:17,401 --> 01:02:21,155
5577and his small staff
5578who prepared this study.
5579
55801201
558101:02:21,238 --> 01:02:23,699
5582Clerk, would you call the roll?
5583
55841202
558501:02:25,325 --> 01:02:28,078
5586- Mr. Udall?
5587- Yay.
5588
55891203
559001:02:28,162 --> 01:02:31,081
5591- Mr. Rubio?
5592- Nay.
5593
55941204
559501:02:31,165 --> 01:02:33,834
5596- Mr. Rockefeller?
5597- Yay.
5598
55991205
560001:02:33,917 --> 01:02:36,295
5601- Mr. Warner?
5602- Yay.
5603
56041206
560501:02:36,378 --> 01:02:38,297
5606- Mr. Blunt?
5607- Nay.
5608
56091207
561001:02:38,380 --> 01:02:41,216
5611- Mr. Conrad?
5612- Yay.
5613
56141208
561501:02:41,300 --> 01:02:43,510
5616- Mr. Coats?
5617- Nay.
5618
56191209
562001:02:43,594 --> 01:02:45,846
5621- Mr. Nelson?
5622- Yay.
5623
56241210
562501:02:45,929 --> 01:02:48,307
5626- Mr. Risch?
5627- Nay.
5628
56291211
563001:02:48,390 --> 01:02:50,893
5631- Ms. Mikulski?
5632- Yay.
5633
56341212
563501:02:50,976 --> 01:02:53,145
5636- Mr. Burr?
5637- Nay.
5638
56391213
564001:02:53,228 --> 01:02:55,606
5641- Mr. Wyden?
5642- Yay.
5643
56441214
564501:02:55,689 --> 01:02:58,066
5646- Ms. Snowe?
5647- Yay.
5648
56491215
565001:02:58,150 --> 01:03:02,070
5651- Mr. Chambliss?
5652- Nay.
5653
56541216
565501:03:02,154 --> 01:03:04,239
5656Ms. Feinstein?
5657
56581217
565901:03:04,323 --> 01:03:06,700
5660Yay.
5661
56621218
566301:03:09,077 --> 01:03:10,662
5664The motion passes.
5665
56661219
566701:03:10,746 --> 01:03:15,751
5668The report will now be sent
5669to the CIA for final comments.
5670
56711220
567201:03:19,546 --> 01:03:21,423
5673I, John Owen Brennan,
5674
56751221
567601:03:21,507 --> 01:03:23,634
5677do solemnly swear to tell
5678the truth, the full truth,
5679
56801222
568101:03:23,717 --> 01:03:26,094
5682and nothing but the truth,
5683so help me God.
5684
56851223
568601:03:26,178 --> 01:03:28,764
5687Thank you, Mr. Brennan.
5688
56891224
569001:03:28,847 --> 01:03:31,016
5691I look forward
5692to hearing your testimony.
5693
56941225
569501:03:34,436 --> 01:03:36,730
5696I am honored
5697to appear before you today
5698
56991226
570001:03:36,813 --> 01:03:40,734
5701as the president’s nominee
5702for director of the CIA.
5703
57041227
570501:03:40,817 --> 01:03:44,530
5706I’d like to say from
5707the beginning that honesty...
5708
57091228
571001:03:44,613 --> 01:03:48,033
5711truthfulness... was a value
5712inculcated in me
5713
57141229
571501:03:48,116 --> 01:03:51,078
5716growing up in New Jersey by
5717my parents, Owen and Dorothy.
5718
57191230
572001:03:51,161 --> 01:03:53,205
5721Now, none of us
5722are perfect beings.
5723
57241231
572501:03:53,288 --> 01:03:55,290
5726I am far from perfect.
5727
57281232
572901:03:55,374 --> 01:03:57,501
5730But I will be honest
5731with this committee
5732
57331233
573401:03:57,584 --> 01:03:59,127
5735and do everything possible
5736
57371234
573801:03:59,211 --> 01:04:02,464
5739to meet your legitimate needs
5740and requirements.
5741
57421235
574301:04:02,548 --> 01:04:04,007
5744Mr. Brennan,
5745
57461236
574701:04:04,091 --> 01:04:06,718
5748I’ve long believed that our
5749government has an obligation
5750
57511237
575201:04:06,802 --> 01:04:10,847
5753to the American people to face
5754its mistakes transparently,
5755
57561238
575701:04:10,931 --> 01:04:13,892
5758to help the public understand
5759the nature of those mistakes,
5760
57611239
576201:04:13,976 --> 01:04:16,270
5763and to correct them.
5764
57651240
576601:04:16,353 --> 01:04:20,274
5767The enhanced interrogation
5768techniques were brutal,
5769
57701241
577101:04:20,357 --> 01:04:23,026
5772and, perhaps most importantly,
5773they did not work.
5774
57751242
577601:04:23,110 --> 01:04:26,029
5777Now, the CIA has
5778a responsibility
5779
57801243
578101:04:26,113 --> 01:04:28,490
5782to correct any inaccurate
5783information it provided
5784
57851244
578601:04:28,574 --> 01:04:30,659
5787to the previous White House,
5788the Department of Justice,
5789
57901245
579101:04:30,742 --> 01:04:32,536
5792Congress and the public.
5793
57941246
579501:04:32,619 --> 01:04:34,913
5796So, here’s my question:
5797
57981247
579901:04:34,997 --> 01:04:38,208
5800Do you agree that the CIA
5801has this responsibility?
5802
58031248
580401:04:38,292 --> 01:04:40,794
5805And I’d appreciate
5806a yes or no answer.
5807
58081249
580901:04:42,504 --> 01:04:46,008
5810Yes, Senator.
5811
58121250
581301:04:46,091 --> 01:04:47,634
5814Absolutely.
5815
58161251
581701:04:49,344 --> 01:04:50,846
5818Office of the chief of staff.
5819
58201252
582101:04:50,929 --> 01:04:52,973
5822Mr. McDonough is
5823in a meeting right now.
5824
58251253
582601:04:53,056 --> 01:04:55,309
5827According to the latest NBC
5828News/Wall Street Journal poll,
5829
58301254
583101:04:55,392 --> 01:04:58,895
5832the president’s
5833approval rating is at 44%.
5834
58351255
583601:04:58,979 --> 01:05:00,439
5837That’s up three points since March...
5838
58391256
584001:05:00,522 --> 01:05:02,441
5841Excuse me. Mr. McDonough.
5842
58431257
584401:05:02,524 --> 01:05:04,985
5845- Director Brennan is here.
5846- Oh.
5847
58481258
584901:05:05,068 --> 01:05:06,320
5850There he is.
5851
58521259
585301:05:06,403 --> 01:05:08,488
5854- Congratulations, Mr. Director.
5855- Thank you.
5856
58571260
585801:05:08,572 --> 01:05:09,990
5859Welcome. Come on in.
5860Thank you.
5861
58621261
586301:05:10,073 --> 01:05:12,200
5864Thank you
5865and thank President Obama.
5866
58671262
586801:05:12,284 --> 01:05:13,952
5869I’ll let him know.
5870
58711263
587201:05:14,036 --> 01:05:16,121
5873Speaking of, uh,
5874
58751264
587601:05:16,204 --> 01:05:18,624
5877he wanted me to ask you
5878if there’s any new information
5879
58801265
588101:05:18,707 --> 01:05:21,084
5882on the drone strikes
5883of April 29th?
5884
58851266
588601:05:21,168 --> 01:05:24,588
5887We can confirm
5888that the Al Qaeda planner
5889
58901267
589101:05:24,671 --> 01:05:27,633
5892Abu Sulayman al-Jazairi
5893has been killed.
5894
58951268
589601:05:27,716 --> 01:05:30,260
5897Unfortunately, we also believe
5898
58991269
590001:05:30,344 --> 01:05:34,348
5901that there were between five
5902and ten civilian casualties.
5903
59041270
590501:05:34,431 --> 01:05:35,849
5906Shit.
5907
59081271
590901:05:35,932 --> 01:05:38,143
5910Well, I’ll let
5911the president know.
5912
59131272
591401:05:38,226 --> 01:05:40,228
5915What about the
5916Intelligence Committee report?
5917
59181273
591901:05:40,312 --> 01:05:41,772
5920We need to talk about that.
5921
59221274
592301:05:41,855 --> 01:05:44,691
5924John, w-we gave the CIA
5925until February
5926
59271275
592801:05:44,775 --> 01:05:47,152
5929to come up with its response;
5930it’s now May.
5931
59321276
593301:05:47,235 --> 01:05:49,154
5934I’ve got Senator Feinstein
5935all over my phone sheet.
5936
59371277
593801:05:49,237 --> 01:05:51,531
5939I don’t want to be the one
5940who has to push on this,
5941
59421278
594301:05:51,615 --> 01:05:54,284
5944but the president would really
5945like to get this behind us.
5946
59471279
594801:05:59,748 --> 01:06:01,541
5949And?
5950
59511280
595201:06:01,625 --> 01:06:03,960
5953We acknowledge that
5954
59551281
595601:06:04,044 --> 01:06:06,630
5957the Detention and Interrogation
5958Program had shortcomings
5959
59601282
596101:06:06,713 --> 01:06:08,965
5962and that the Agency
5963made mistakes.
5964
59651283
596601:06:09,049 --> 01:06:10,717
5967The most serious of those
5968occurred early on
5969
59701284
597101:06:10,801 --> 01:06:13,428
5972and stemmed from the fact
5973that we were unprepared.
5974
59751285
597601:06:15,055 --> 01:06:18,642
5977Now, as you know, we part ways
5978on some key points.
5979
59801286
598101:06:18,725 --> 01:06:22,062
5982According to our review,
5983indications are that
5984
59851287
598601:06:22,145 --> 01:06:24,314
5987interrogations of
5988detainees upon whom
5989
59901288
599101:06:24,398 --> 01:06:27,109
5992the enhanced interrogation
5993techniques were used
5994
59951289
599601:06:27,192 --> 01:06:30,529
5997did produce unique intelligence
5998
59991290
600001:06:30,612 --> 01:06:32,364
6001that helped
6002thwart attack plans,
6003
60041291
600501:06:32,447 --> 01:06:34,408
6006capture terrorists,
6007and saved lives.
6008
60091292
601001:06:34,491 --> 01:06:35,951
6011Excuse me, intelligence
6012gathered from EITs...
6013
60141293
601501:06:36,034 --> 01:06:38,245
6016And that intelligence
6017continues to inform
6018
60191294
602001:06:38,328 --> 01:06:40,038
6021our counterterrorism efforts.
6022
60231295
602401:06:40,122 --> 01:06:41,623
6025It led us to bin Laden.
6026
60271296
602801:06:43,208 --> 01:06:45,585
6029Now, it’s one thing
6030to disapprove of the program.
6031
60321297
603301:06:45,669 --> 01:06:47,295
6034I-I welcome that conversation,
6035
60361298
603701:06:47,379 --> 01:06:49,005
6038but it’s something else
6039altogether
6040
60411299
604201:06:49,089 --> 01:06:50,632
6043to say that it was
6044mismanaged and ineffective.
6045
60461300
604701:06:50,716 --> 01:06:51,842
6048Excuse me, Director Brennan.
6049
60501301
605101:06:51,925 --> 01:06:54,553
6052The report is
6053based on CIA records.
6054
60551302
605601:06:54,636 --> 01:06:57,180
6057CIA officers themselves
6058called it ineffective.
6059
60601303
606101:06:57,264 --> 01:06:58,890
6062CIA officers?
6063
60641304
606501:06:58,974 --> 01:07:01,393
6066Well, you didn’t speak to any
6067CIA officers in the program,
6068
60691305
607001:07:01,476 --> 01:07:02,644
6071did you, Dan?
6072
60731306
607401:07:02,728 --> 01:07:05,105
6075Your lawyers would not
6076make them available to us
6077
60781307
607901:07:05,188 --> 01:07:08,775
6080because of the Department
6081of Justice’s criminal inquiry.
6082
60831308
608401:07:08,859 --> 01:07:11,862
6085We also disagree with
6086the study’s characterization of
6087
60881309
608901:07:11,945 --> 01:07:16,283
6090how the CIA briefed Congress,
6091the White House and the press.
6092
60931310
609401:07:16,366 --> 01:07:18,785
6095Now, we have documentation
6096that certainly proves that.
6097
60981311
609901:07:18,869 --> 01:07:20,287
6100Excuse me, sir, what documents?
6101
61021312
610301:07:20,370 --> 01:07:21,663
6104If the director is referencing
6105
61061313
610701:07:21,747 --> 01:07:23,540
6108cables or e-mails
6109we were never shown,
6110
61111314
611201:07:23,623 --> 01:07:25,167
6113then that’s a violation
6114of our agreement.
6115
61161315
611701:07:25,250 --> 01:07:27,753
6118Everything was supposed
6119to have been provided to us.
6120
61211316
612201:07:27,836 --> 01:07:29,755
6123Do we just give
6124the committee access
6125
61261317
612701:07:29,838 --> 01:07:31,715
6128to the entire
6129CIA computer system?
6130
61311318
613201:07:31,798 --> 01:07:33,633
6133Is that where this goes?
6134
61351319
613601:07:33,717 --> 01:07:37,095
6137Dan gets to read every e-mail,
6138gets to see every document?
6139
61401320
614101:07:37,179 --> 01:07:40,265
6142Every relevant document
6143or e-mail, yes.
6144
61451321
614601:07:42,350 --> 01:07:45,228
6147I have always supported
6148the intelligence community.
6149
61501322
615101:07:45,312 --> 01:07:50,066
6152I broke with my own party
6153to support the drone program,
6154
61551323
615601:07:50,150 --> 01:07:52,986
6157but what this report
6158makes very clear
6159
61601324
616101:07:53,069 --> 01:07:56,656
6162is a real need for oversight
6163and accountability.
6164
61651325
616601:07:56,740 --> 01:07:59,618
6167You asked for our response,
6168and we gave it to you.
6169
61701326
617101:07:59,701 --> 01:08:02,078
6172We looked in the mirror.
6173
61741327
617501:08:02,162 --> 01:08:05,040
6176Now, uh, we made mistakes.
6177
61781328
617901:08:05,123 --> 01:08:08,502
6180There were abuses, and those
6181abuses have been addressed.
6182
61831329
618401:08:08,585 --> 01:08:11,963
6185But I-I vehemently disagree
6186with the narrative
6187
61881330
618901:08:12,047 --> 01:08:14,049
6190that you’re trying
6191to string together here.
6192
61931331
619401:08:14,132 --> 01:08:15,759
6195It lacks context.
6196
61971332
619801:08:15,842 --> 01:08:17,719
6199It does not paint
6200an accurate picture
6201
62021333
620301:08:17,803 --> 01:08:19,888
6204of the work that was done.
6205
62061334
620701:08:19,971 --> 01:08:21,556
6208Let’s go.
6209
62101335
621101:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,518
6212Senator, John Brennan’s
6213name is in that report.
6214
62151336
621601:08:24,601 --> 01:08:26,269
6217He was Director Tenet’s
6218chief of staff
6219
62201337
622101:08:26,353 --> 01:08:27,646
6222and then
6223deputy executive director
6224
62251338
622601:08:27,729 --> 01:08:29,272
6227when the program started.
6228
62291339
623001:08:29,356 --> 01:08:30,941
6231- He grew up at the Agency.
6232- He claims to have
6233
62341340
623501:08:31,024 --> 01:08:32,651
6236- spoken out against the EIT program...
6237- Where?
6238
62391341
624001:08:32,734 --> 01:08:34,736
6241I just spent five years
6242looking at their e-mails.
6243
62441342
624501:08:34,820 --> 01:08:36,613
6246I never found anything
6247to suggest that’s true.
6248
62491343
625001:08:36,696 --> 01:08:38,949
6251Well, we knew
6252this wasn’t going to be easy.
6253
62541344
625501:08:39,032 --> 01:08:42,035
6256They have their own narrative,
6257and they’re gonna stick to it.
6258
62591345
626001:08:42,118 --> 01:08:43,912
6261Maybe we could come up
6262with some middle ground,
6263
62641346
626501:08:43,995 --> 01:08:46,122
6266- find some common language.
6267- I thought our job
6268
62691347
627001:08:46,206 --> 01:08:47,707
6271was to provide oversight
6272and accountability,
6273
62741348
627501:08:47,791 --> 01:08:49,626
6276not middle ground.
6277
62781349
627901:08:50,418 --> 01:08:52,504
6280I have a question for you.
6281
62821350
628301:08:52,587 --> 01:08:55,090
6284Do you work for me
6285or for the report?
6286
62871351
628801:08:56,591 --> 01:09:01,012
6289And I’d encourage you to think
6290about that before answering.
6291
62921352
629301:09:13,483 --> 01:09:15,569
6294McDONOUGH:
6295Dan!
6296
62971353
629801:09:15,652 --> 01:09:17,696
6299Dan Jones.
6300
63011354
630201:09:17,779 --> 01:09:19,030
6303There he is.
6304
63051355
630601:09:19,114 --> 01:09:20,949
6307Look at you, chief investigator
6308
63091356
631001:09:21,032 --> 01:09:23,410
6311of the largest study
6312the Senate’s ever conducted.
6313
63141357
631501:09:23,493 --> 01:09:25,036
6316My God. How you doing?
6317
63181358
631901:09:25,120 --> 01:09:26,955
6320It’s good to see you
6321in the fresh air.
6322
63231359
632401:09:27,038 --> 01:09:28,373
6325- Yeah.
6326- It’s so funny.
6327
63281360
632901:09:28,456 --> 01:09:29,958
6330I was just thinking
6331the other night,
6332
63331361
633401:09:30,041 --> 01:09:32,544
6335do you remember that time
6336you came and saw me,
6337
63381362
633901:09:32,627 --> 01:09:34,170
6340right after
6341you got out of school?
6342
63431363
634401:09:34,254 --> 01:09:36,214
6345You said go get
6346intel experience,
6347
63481364
634901:09:36,298 --> 01:09:37,883
6350wait till the Dems
6351got the Senate back.
6352
63531365
635401:09:37,966 --> 01:09:39,217
6355And look at you now:
6356
63571366
635801:09:39,301 --> 01:09:40,844
6359working for the
6360Senate Intelligence Committee
6361
63621367
636301:09:40,927 --> 01:09:42,387
6364for Dianne Feinstein.
6365
63661368
636701:09:42,470 --> 01:09:44,097
6368You told me once you wanted
6369to make a difference.
6370
63711369
637201:09:44,180 --> 01:09:45,807
6373I hope you still
6374get that chance.
6375
63761370
637701:09:45,891 --> 01:09:47,767
6378- What does that mean?
6379- What does that mean?
6380
63811371
638201:09:47,851 --> 01:09:51,605
6383It means, Dan, get out of the
6384senator’s head about the CIA.
6385
63861372
638701:09:51,688 --> 01:09:53,607
6388You’re not doing yourself
6389any favors.
6390
63911373
639201:09:53,690 --> 01:09:55,150
6393Have you read the report?
6394
63951374
639601:09:55,233 --> 01:09:58,403
6397It’s 7,000 pages, Dan.
6398
63991375
640001:09:58,486 --> 01:10:02,240
6401The Bible tells the history
6402of mankind in less than that.
6403
64041376
640501:10:02,324 --> 01:10:05,744
6406Look, buddy,
6407
64081377
640901:10:05,827 --> 01:10:07,495
6410we’re gonna get the CIA
6411to sit down with you,
6412
64131378
641401:10:07,579 --> 01:10:09,956
6415tell you
6416their side of the story.
6417
64181379
641901:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,667
6420It would help
6421if you would listen.
6422
64231380
642401:10:14,294 --> 01:10:16,463
6425The study seems
6426to most seriously diverge
6427
64281381
642901:10:16,546 --> 01:10:19,507
6430from the facts by asking
6431the reader to believe
6432
64331382
643401:10:19,591 --> 01:10:21,801
6435the CIA withheld information
6436
64371383
643801:10:21,885 --> 01:10:23,845
6439from the executive branch
6440and Congress.
6441
64421384
644301:10:23,929 --> 01:10:27,057
6444We’d like to see that
6445removed from the report.
6446
64471385
644801:10:27,140 --> 01:10:29,142
6449After the photos of
6450Abu Ghraib came out in 2004,
6451
64521386
645301:10:29,225 --> 01:10:31,478
6454Deputy Director McLaughlin
6455appeared before Congress,
6456
64571387
645801:10:31,561 --> 01:10:34,439
6459in front of you, and said
6460the CIA is not authorized
6461
64621388
646301:10:34,522 --> 01:10:36,816
6464to do anything like what
6465you’ve seen in those photos.
6466
64671389
646801:10:36,900 --> 01:10:38,860
6469But what they were doing
6470was even worse.
6471
64721390
647301:10:38,944 --> 01:10:40,862
6474Then in 2005,
6475Senator Rockefeller
6476
64771391
647801:10:40,946 --> 01:10:42,656
6479called for a review
6480of the program,
6481
64821392
648301:10:42,739 --> 01:10:44,699
6484and the deputy chief
6485of Counterterrorism
6486
64871393
648801:10:44,783 --> 01:10:46,493
6489got nervous
6490where that might lead.
6491
64921394
649301:10:46,576 --> 01:10:48,787
6494So he sent a message
6495to senior leadership
6496
64971395
649801:10:48,870 --> 01:10:51,373
6499discussing the need
6500to manage the situation.
6501
65021396
650301:10:51,456 --> 01:10:55,293
6504He said, "We either get out
6505and sell, or we get hammered.
6506
65071397
650801:10:55,377 --> 01:10:58,338
6509Congress reads it,
6510cuts our authorities,
6511
65121398
651301:10:58,421 --> 01:10:59,798
6514messes up our budget.
6515
65161399
651701:10:59,881 --> 01:11:01,132
6518We need to make sure
6519
65201400
652101:11:01,216 --> 01:11:03,593
6522the impression of
6523what we do is positive."
6524
65251401
652601:11:03,677 --> 01:11:06,262
6527This is the deputy chief
6528of Counterterrorism.
6529
65301402
653101:11:06,346 --> 01:11:08,848
6532That all stays in.
6533
65341403
653501:11:08,932 --> 01:11:11,059
6536We fundamentally disagree
6537with the assertion
6538
65391404
654001:11:11,142 --> 01:11:13,979
6541that the program was
6542poorly managed and executed
6543
65441405
654501:11:14,062 --> 01:11:17,565
6546and that unqualified officers
6547imposed brutal conditions,
6548
65491406
655001:11:17,649 --> 01:11:20,652
6551used unapproved techniques, and
6552were rarely held accountable.
6553
65541407
655501:11:20,735 --> 01:11:22,862
6556What about Mitchell and Jessen?
6557
65581408
655901:11:22,946 --> 01:11:26,658
6560Mitchell’s PhD thesis
6561was on diet and exercise
6562
65631409
656401:11:26,741 --> 01:11:28,368
6565for controlling hypertension.
6566
65671410
656801:11:28,451 --> 01:11:30,412
6569Jessen’s dissertation
6570was on family therapy,
6571
65721411
657301:11:30,495 --> 01:11:31,997
6574something called
6575family sculpting,
6576
65771412
657801:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,082
6579where you make clay figures
6580of your family members.
6581
65821413
658301:11:34,165 --> 01:11:35,792
6584- No. How much were they paid?
6585- They had no experience
6586
65871414
658801:11:35,875 --> 01:11:37,043
6589in real-world interrogations.
6590
65911415
659201:11:37,127 --> 01:11:38,586
6593No science
6594to back up their claims.
6595
65961416
659701:11:38,670 --> 01:11:39,963
6598They were allowed to assess
6599
66001417
660101:11:40,046 --> 01:11:41,840
6602the effectiveness
6603of their own program
6604
66051418
660601:11:41,923 --> 01:11:43,842
6607without providing
6608any scientific evidence.
6609
66101419
661101:11:43,925 --> 01:11:45,385
6612How much in total
6613
66141420
661501:11:45,468 --> 01:11:48,555
6616did the U.S. taxpayers
6617give them for their work?
6618
66191421
662001:11:48,638 --> 01:11:50,515
6621Over $80 million.
6622
66231422
662401:11:51,599 --> 01:11:54,394
6625The Agency also disagrees that
6626
66271423
662801:11:54,477 --> 01:11:57,605
6629the Detention and Interrogation
6630Program did not produce
6631
66321424
663301:11:57,689 --> 01:11:59,566
6634unique intelligence
6635that disrupted plots
6636
66371425
663801:11:59,649 --> 01:12:01,860
6639and saved lives.
6640
66411426
664201:12:01,943 --> 01:12:04,154
6643For instance,
6644the identity of José Padilla,
6645
66461427
664701:12:04,237 --> 01:12:06,031
6648the "dirty bomber."
6649
66501428
665101:12:06,114 --> 01:12:07,615
6652If we hadn’t stopped Padilla,
6653
66541429
665501:12:07,699 --> 01:12:11,161
6656this entire area
6657would be radioactive today.
6658
66591430
666001:12:11,244 --> 01:12:12,871
6661José Padilla!
6662
66631431
666401:12:12,954 --> 01:12:15,790
6665Padilla found the instructions
6666for his dirty bomb online,
6667
66681432
666901:12:15,874 --> 01:12:19,252
6670in-in an article entitled
6671"Making and owning an H-bomb
6672
66731433
667401:12:19,335 --> 01:12:22,422
6675is the kind of challenge
6676real Americans seek."
6677
66781434
667901:12:22,505 --> 01:12:25,383
6680It says,
6681"Fill two buckets with uranium
6682
66831435
668401:12:25,467 --> 01:12:28,595
6685and swing them above your head
6686as fast as possible."
6687
66881436
668901:12:28,678 --> 01:12:30,055
6690It was a joke.
6691
66921437
669301:12:30,138 --> 01:12:31,639
6694As far as we can tell,
6695
66961438
669701:12:31,723 --> 01:12:34,059
6698everything they attribute
6699to EITs they already had,
6700
67011439
670201:12:34,142 --> 01:12:36,770
6703from other sources,
6704from foreign governments,
6705
67061440
670701:12:36,853 --> 01:12:38,313
6708from other methods.
6709
67101441
671101:12:38,396 --> 01:12:40,899
6712They claim they saved lives,
6713but what they really did
6714
67151442
671601:12:40,982 --> 01:12:42,692
6717was make it impossible
6718to prosecute
6719
67201443
672101:12:42,776 --> 01:12:45,945
6722a mass murderer like KSM,
6723because if what we did to him
6724
67251444
672601:12:46,029 --> 01:12:48,823
6727ever came out in a court
6728of law, the case is over.
6729
67301445
673101:12:48,907 --> 01:12:52,077
6732The guy planned 9/11,
6733and instead of going to jail
6734
67351446
673601:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,537
6737for the rest of his life,
6738the CIA turned him into
6739
67401447
674101:12:54,621 --> 01:12:57,791
6742a recruiting tool
6743for a war we’re still fighting.
6744
67451448
674601:13:01,461 --> 01:13:03,671
6747Stop meeting with them.
6748
67491449
675001:13:10,095 --> 01:13:13,223
6751This is a remarkable document
6752you’ve created.
6753
67541450
675501:13:13,306 --> 01:13:15,058
6756Truly.
6757
67581451
675901:13:15,141 --> 01:13:18,645
6760It will provide
6761an enduring history,
6762
67631452
676401:13:18,728 --> 01:13:21,397
6765whether it comes out or not.
6766
67671453
676801:13:26,319 --> 01:13:28,780
6769What does that mean, "w-whether
6770it comes out or not"?
6771
67721454
677301:13:28,863 --> 01:13:31,116
6774What does she mean?
6775
67761455
677701:13:31,199 --> 01:13:32,742
6778What does that mean?
6779
67801456
678101:13:32,826 --> 01:13:34,369
6782We’ve been working on this
6783thing for nearly five years.
6784
67851457
678601:13:34,452 --> 01:13:37,956
6787Yes, and it is still
6788our word against theirs.
6789
67901458
679101:13:38,039 --> 01:13:39,624
6792She’s gonna need
6793more than that.
6794
67951459
679601:13:56,683 --> 01:13:57,851
6797This is Jones.
6798
67991460
680001:13:57,934 --> 01:13:59,602
6801Hey, Dan, this is Evan Tanner.
6802
68031461
680401:13:59,686 --> 01:14:03,231
6805Um, I hear rumors the report
6806might not be coming out now.
6807
68081462
680901:14:03,314 --> 01:14:05,024
6810A lot of pushback
6811from the Agency.
6812
68131463
681401:14:05,108 --> 01:14:07,944
6815- They’re calling it "flawed."
6816- Who told you that?
6817
68181464
681901:14:08,027 --> 01:14:11,072
6820Dan, I’m the
6821national security reporter
6822
68231465
682401:14:11,156 --> 01:14:12,448
6825for The New York Times.
6826
68271466
682801:14:12,532 --> 01:14:14,492
6829Do you have any thoughts?
6830
68311467
683201:14:14,576 --> 01:14:17,829
6833It’s not
6834my place to talk about rumors.
6835
68361468
683701:14:17,912 --> 01:14:19,414
6838No, I didn’t think you would.
6839
68401469
684101:14:19,497 --> 01:14:21,499
6842I was wondering
6843if you might want to comment.
6844
68451470
684601:14:21,583 --> 01:14:25,128
6847Uh, it can be off the record.
6848
68491471
685001:14:25,211 --> 01:14:29,174
6851I just think we can
6852help each other here.
6853
68541472
685501:14:29,257 --> 01:14:31,843
6856You know I can’t do that.
6857
68581473
685901:14:33,511 --> 01:14:36,681
6860And here’s what we know
6861about Caroline Krass:
6862
68631474
686401:14:36,764 --> 01:14:38,266
686520 years
6866in the executive branch,
6867
68681475
686901:14:38,349 --> 01:14:39,809
6870including the
6871Office of Legal Counsel
6872
68731476
687401:14:39,893 --> 01:14:41,477
6875where she worked with John Yoo.
6876
68771477
687801:14:41,561 --> 01:14:44,189
6879Guys, this
6880confirmation’s a done deal.
6881
68821478
688301:14:44,272 --> 01:14:46,065
6884We’re not gonna stop it.
6885
68861479
688701:14:46,149 --> 01:14:49,986
6888But it is a public hearing,
6889and it just seems like
6890
68911480
689201:14:50,069 --> 01:14:52,030
6893there’s an opportunity
6894to say something.
6895
68961481
689701:14:52,113 --> 01:14:54,782
6898Wh-What are you
6899looking for, Senator?
6900
69011482
690201:14:54,866 --> 01:14:57,368
6903I don’t know, something
6904to move the study forward,
6905
69061483
690701:14:57,452 --> 01:15:00,371
6908to break us
6909out of this stalemate.
6910
69111484
691201:15:02,707 --> 01:15:03,958
6913Any ideas?
6914
69151485
691601:15:09,088 --> 01:15:10,715
6917Senator, there is a document.
6918
69191486
692001:15:50,296 --> 01:15:51,923
6921You ever sleep, bro?
6922
69231487
692401:15:52,006 --> 01:15:53,883
6925I used to.
6926
69271488
692801:15:53,967 --> 01:15:55,843
6929Got in the way of work.
6930
69311489
693201:15:55,927 --> 01:15:58,638
6933Anything in that bag contain
6934the real names of CIA officers,
6935
69361490
693701:15:58,721 --> 01:16:00,848
6938assets or partners,
6939or any information
6940
69411491
694201:16:00,932 --> 01:16:03,101
6943that would be in violation
6944of the agreement between
6945
69461492
694701:16:03,184 --> 01:16:05,895
6948the Central Intelligence Agency
6949and the United States Senate?
6950
69511493
695201:16:05,979 --> 01:16:08,690
6953- Have a good night, Jay.
6954- You, too, Dan.
6955
69561494
695701:17:01,326 --> 01:17:03,328
6958The committee
6959will come to order.
6960
69611495
696201:17:05,121 --> 01:17:07,707
6963Today, we are gathered
6964for the confirmation hearing
6965
69661496
696701:17:07,790 --> 01:17:12,378
6968of Caroline Krass to be
6969general counsel of the CIA.
6970
69711497
697201:17:12,462 --> 01:17:14,964
6973Welcome, Ms. Krass.
6974
69751498
697601:17:15,048 --> 01:17:17,216
6977I’m honored to be here
6978before the committee,
6979
69801499
698101:17:17,300 --> 01:17:20,178
6982and I’d like to take this
6983moment to acknowledge my family
6984
69851500
698601:17:20,261 --> 01:17:22,638
6987and thank them
6988for their support.
6989
69901501
699101:17:22,722 --> 01:17:24,140
6992Thank you.
6993
69941502
699501:17:24,223 --> 01:17:26,809
6996Uh, before we begin,
6997I would like to remind members
6998
69991503
700001:17:26,893 --> 01:17:29,395
7001not to discuss
7002classified topics
7003
70041504
700501:17:29,479 --> 01:17:33,483
7006or ask questions which require
7007a classified answer.
7008
70091505
701001:17:33,566 --> 01:17:36,444
7011With that said,
7012I turn to Senator Udall.
7013
70141506
701501:17:36,527 --> 01:17:38,446
7016Ms. Krass,
7017nice to see you again.
7018
70191507
702001:17:38,529 --> 01:17:40,239
7021We had a chance
7022to sit down last week
7023
70241508
702501:17:40,323 --> 01:17:41,616
7026and discuss the Senate’s study
7027
70281509
702901:17:41,699 --> 01:17:43,993
7030on the Detention
7031and Interrogation Program.
7032
70331510
703401:17:44,077 --> 01:17:49,415
7035You told me you found the study
7036to be hard reading.
7037
70381511
703901:17:49,499 --> 01:17:51,459
7040Also, last week,
7041a number of articles appeared
7042
70431512
704401:17:51,542 --> 01:17:53,503
7045discussing
7046the one-year anniversary
7047
70481513
704901:17:53,586 --> 01:17:55,505
7050of the vote to approve
7051the committee’s study.
7052
70531514
705401:17:55,588 --> 01:17:57,548
7055And in one of those articles,
7056
70571515
705801:17:57,632 --> 01:18:01,469
7059the CIA claimed to have found
7060significant errors.
7061
70621516
706301:18:01,552 --> 01:18:04,555
7064Now, I got to tell you, I don’t
7065believe that is accurate.
7066
70671517
706801:18:04,639 --> 01:18:07,767
7069In fact,
7070I’m more confident than ever
7071
70721518
707301:18:07,850 --> 01:18:11,771
7074in the factual accuracy
7075of the committee’s study.
7076
70771519
707801:18:11,854 --> 01:18:16,025
7079I want to say that again:
7080I’m more confident than ever.
7081
70821520
708301:18:17,276 --> 01:18:19,445
7084It appears that the CIA
7085performed their own study
7086
70871521
708801:18:19,529 --> 01:18:24,033
7089of the EIT program, initiated
7090by former Director Panetta.
7091
70921522
709301:18:24,117 --> 01:18:26,452
7094And the findings
7095
70961523
709701:18:26,536 --> 01:18:28,871
7098in that review
7099are entirely consistent
7100
71011524
710201:18:28,955 --> 01:18:33,167
7103with our committee’s report,
7104but amazingly conflicts with
7105
71061525
710701:18:33,251 --> 01:18:35,336
7108the CIA’s official response
7109to that report.
7110
71111526
711201:18:38,172 --> 01:18:41,634
7113So, why is a review
7114the CIA conducted internally,
7115
71161527
711701:18:41,717 --> 01:18:45,680
7118and never revealed to Congress,
7119so different from
7120
71211528
712201:18:45,763 --> 01:18:49,350
7123the CIA’s formal response
7124to the committee’s report?
7125
71261529
712701:18:49,434 --> 01:18:51,644
7128Do you have an answer for that?
7129
71301530
713101:18:52,395 --> 01:18:56,065
7132Um, not at this time.
7133
71341531
713501:19:01,446 --> 01:19:04,490
7136If I wanted the public to know
7137about the Panetta review,
7138
71391532
714001:19:04,574 --> 01:19:06,159
7141I would have told them myself.
7142
71431533
714401:19:06,242 --> 01:19:07,743
7145We hear that the Republicans
7146
71471534
714801:19:07,827 --> 01:19:09,245
7149are gonna censure Udall
7150for that performance.
7151
71521535
715301:19:09,328 --> 01:19:10,746
7154But the review
7155proves our point.
7156
71571536
715801:19:10,830 --> 01:19:12,373
7159They found
7160the same things we did.
7161
71621537
716301:19:12,457 --> 01:19:14,500
7164The Agency didn’t know
7165how or where to hold people,
7166
71671538
716801:19:14,584 --> 01:19:16,210
7169didn’t know
7170how to interrogate people,
7171
71721539
717301:19:16,294 --> 01:19:18,588
7174and, more importantly,
7175the CIA did give it to us.
7176
71771540
717801:19:18,671 --> 01:19:21,007
7179I don’t know
7180if it was an accident
7181
71821541
718301:19:21,090 --> 01:19:22,550
7184or it was a whistle-blower.
7185
71861542
718701:19:22,633 --> 01:19:24,093
7188Well, if it was
7189a whistle-blower,
7190
71911543
719201:19:24,177 --> 01:19:26,554
7193you may have just exposed them.
7194
71951544
719601:19:26,637 --> 01:19:28,848
7197Not to mention yourself.
7198
71991545
720001:20:25,863 --> 01:20:27,949
7201We got something here.
7202
72031546
720401:20:28,032 --> 01:20:29,951
7205The director
7206has asked me here today
7207
72081547
720901:20:30,034 --> 01:20:32,411
7210in my capacity
7211as Agency legal counsel.
7212
72131548
721401:20:32,495 --> 01:20:36,999
7215What we have to discuss
7216has serious implications.
7217
72181549
721901:20:37,083 --> 01:20:38,209
7220All right.
7221
72221550
722301:20:38,292 --> 01:20:39,669
7224We have proof that the staff
7225
72261551
722701:20:39,752 --> 01:20:41,420
7228of the Senate
7229Intelligence Committee
7230
72311552
723201:20:41,504 --> 01:20:44,006
7233illegally gained access
7234to the CIA’s computer network
7235
72361553
723701:20:44,090 --> 01:20:46,008
7238and obtained
7239classified documents.
7240
72411554
724201:20:47,093 --> 01:20:48,261
7243What kind of proof?
7244
72451555
724601:20:48,344 --> 01:20:50,012
7247We found the document
7248in question
7249
72501556
725101:20:50,096 --> 01:20:52,014
7252on Daniel Jones’s computer.
7253
72541557
725501:20:52,098 --> 01:20:55,226
7256We did not provide it to him
7257or to the committee.
7258
72591558
726001:20:55,309 --> 01:20:59,188
7261If he didn’t hack us,
7262how did it get there?
7263
72641559
726501:20:59,272 --> 01:21:02,817
7266We feel that Jones and his team
7267need to be disciplined.
7268
72691560
727001:21:04,527 --> 01:21:06,571
7271Immediate dismissal
7272is in order,
7273
72741561
727501:21:06,654 --> 01:21:09,115
7276at a minimum, I would think.
7277
72781562
727901:21:10,700 --> 01:21:14,662
7280John, are you saying that you
7281broke into the computer system
7282
72831563
728401:21:14,745 --> 01:21:16,414
7285of the United States Senate?
7286
72871564
728801:21:16,497 --> 01:21:18,207
7289We never gave you clearance
7290on that document.
7291
72921565
729301:21:18,291 --> 01:21:22,044
7294It was classified, yet
7295you chose to make it public.
7296
72971566
729801:21:22,128 --> 01:21:23,671
7299We’ve made our investigation
7300and our findings
7301
73021567
730301:21:23,754 --> 01:21:24,839
7304known to the White House.
7305
73061568
730701:21:24,922 --> 01:21:27,675
7308You’re fucking kidding me.
7309
73101569
731101:21:29,093 --> 01:21:30,928
7312They’re saying I broke into
7313
73141570
731501:21:31,012 --> 01:21:34,015
7316the most top secret
7317computer system in the world?
7318
73191571
732001:21:34,098 --> 01:21:36,183
7321- Brennan and Eastman came over...
7322- Eastman?
7323
73241572
732501:21:36,267 --> 01:21:38,102
7326Eastman’s name is in the report
7327over a thousand times.
7328
73291573
733001:21:38,185 --> 01:21:40,605
7331- That’s not a conflict?
7332- Dan.
7333
73341574
733501:21:40,688 --> 01:21:43,441
7336They filed a criminal referral
7337against you.
7338
73391575
734001:21:43,524 --> 01:21:45,901
7341They want you gone.
7342
73431576
734401:21:48,904 --> 01:21:51,574
7345H-How did the Agency
7346come to the conclusion
7347
73481577
734901:21:51,657 --> 01:21:52,825
7350that I’m a hacker?
7351
73521578
735301:21:52,908 --> 01:21:54,660
7354H-How do they even know
7355what’s on my computer?
7356
73571579
735801:21:54,744 --> 01:21:56,495
7359They say
7360they conducted a search.
7361
73621580
736301:21:56,579 --> 01:21:58,039
7364Of the United States Senate?
7365
73661581
736701:21:58,122 --> 01:21:59,874
7368The whole reason
7369this committee was established
7370
73711582
737201:21:59,957 --> 01:22:01,876
7373in the first place
7374was to stop the CIA
7375
73761583
737701:22:01,959 --> 01:22:03,252
7378from spying on U.S. citizens.
7379
73801584
738101:22:03,336 --> 01:22:04,879
7382The senator is talking
7383to Harry Reid about
7384
73851585
738601:22:04,962 --> 01:22:06,631
7387- that very thing...
7388- Did they go into that room?
7389
73901586
739101:22:06,714 --> 01:22:08,549
7392That room is off-limits. Did
7393they go into that fucking room?
7394
73951587
739601:22:08,633 --> 01:22:10,301
7397I don’t know.
7398
73991588
740001:22:11,636 --> 01:22:13,262
7401I don’t know.
7402
74031589
740401:22:14,889 --> 01:22:17,433
7405I do know that the Republicans
7406are gonna run with this.
7407
74081590
740901:22:17,516 --> 01:22:19,477
7410They’re gonna use it
7411to discredit the report.
7412
74131591
741401:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,937
7415They’re gonna
7416use it to discredit you.
7417
74181592
741901:22:23,606 --> 01:22:26,067
7420Dan, they’re accusing you
7421of breaking the law.
7422
74231593
742401:22:26,150 --> 01:22:27,735
7425You’re gonna need a lawyer.
7426
74271594
742801:22:32,782 --> 01:22:34,992
7429There’s a saying at the Agency:
7430
74311595
743201:22:35,076 --> 01:22:36,369
7433"Admit nothing,
7434
74351596
743601:22:36,452 --> 01:22:38,537
7437deny everything,
7438make counteraccusations."
7439
74401597
744101:22:38,621 --> 01:22:40,748
7442That’s what they’re doing.
7443
74441598
744501:22:40,831 --> 01:22:42,708
7446The CIA is
7447investigating you for...
7448
74491599
745001:22:42,792 --> 01:22:44,877
7451They’re the ones who
7452should be investigated, not me.
7453
74541600
745501:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,546
7456Mr. Jones?
7457Mr. Clifford will see you now.
7458
74591601
746001:22:47,630 --> 01:22:49,173
7461Our computer system
7462
74631602
746401:22:49,256 --> 01:22:52,051
7465isn’t even connected
7466to the CIA mainframe.
7467
74681603
746901:22:52,134 --> 01:22:53,844
7470So did I just
7471go over to Langley
7472
74731604
747401:22:53,928 --> 01:22:55,096
7475and break in on a weekend?
7476
74771605
747801:22:55,179 --> 01:22:56,972
7479Seems unlikely.
7480
74811606
748201:22:57,056 --> 01:22:58,974
7483So what evidence do they have?
7484
74851607
748601:22:59,058 --> 01:23:01,060
7487A document.
7488
74891608
749001:23:02,144 --> 01:23:04,480
7491A document?
7492What kind of a document?
7493
74941609
749501:23:07,274 --> 01:23:08,984
7496I can’t tell you that.
7497
74981610
749901:23:09,068 --> 01:23:12,029
7500Because, what, it’s classified?
7501
75021611
750301:23:12,113 --> 01:23:14,198
7504I was tasked
7505to lead an investigation
7506
75071612
750801:23:14,281 --> 01:23:16,701
7509into a CIA program
7510they started after 9/11,
7511
75121613
751301:23:16,784 --> 01:23:19,036
7514what they called
7515enhanced interrogation.
7516
75171614
751801:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,124
7519And I assume your work
7520is critical of the Agency?
7521
75221615
752301:23:25,501 --> 01:23:27,795
7524You know, Dan, a lot of people
7525in this country
7526
75271616
752801:23:27,878 --> 01:23:29,505
7529felt the CIA was
7530justified in doing
7531
75321617
753301:23:29,588 --> 01:23:31,465
7534whatever they had to do
7535to keep us safe.
7536
75371618
753801:23:31,549 --> 01:23:33,801
7539I have friends
7540who lost people that day.
7541
75421619
754301:23:33,884 --> 01:23:36,470
7544And a lot of people watch 24
7545on Thursday nights
7546
75471620
754801:23:36,554 --> 01:23:38,139
7549and hear Jack Bauer say,
7550
75511621
755201:23:38,222 --> 01:23:39,765
7553"I don’t want to bypass
7554the Constitution,
7555
75561622
755701:23:39,849 --> 01:23:41,559
7558but these are
7559extraordinary circumstances,"
7560
75611623
756201:23:41,642 --> 01:23:43,978
7563just before, you know,
7564he s-sticks a knife in them
7565
75661624
756701:23:44,061 --> 01:23:45,604
7568and makes them give up a plot.
7569
75701625
757101:23:45,688 --> 01:23:47,606
7572It-it doesn’t work that way.
7573
75741626
757501:23:48,691 --> 01:23:52,027
7576Well, as
7577Winston Churchill said,
7578
75791627
758001:23:52,111 --> 01:23:55,030
7581"History is written
7582by the victors."
7583
75841628
758501:23:57,116 --> 01:23:59,452
7586Churchill didn’t really
7587say that; Hermann Goring did.
7588
75891629
759001:23:59,535 --> 01:24:01,829
7591And what he said was,
7592"We will go down in history
7593
75941630
759501:24:01,912 --> 01:24:03,706
7596either as the world’s
7597greatest statesmen
7598
75991631
760001:24:03,789 --> 01:24:05,374
7601or its worst villains."
7602
76031632
760401:24:05,458 --> 01:24:08,753
7605So your report is
7606gonna determine that:
7607
76081633
760901:24:08,836 --> 01:24:10,504
7610statesmen or villains?
7611
76121634
761301:24:14,049 --> 01:24:17,595
7614How long have you been
7615working on this project, Dan?
7616
76171635
761801:24:17,678 --> 01:24:19,805
7619Five years.
7620
76211636
762201:24:19,889 --> 01:24:22,683
7623Five years,
7624and it could all go away,
7625
76261637
762701:24:22,767 --> 01:24:26,395
7628just vanish in the face
7629of these allegations.
7630
76311638
763201:24:26,479 --> 01:24:27,897
7633I can certainly imagine
7634
76351639
763601:24:27,980 --> 01:24:30,608
7637an ambitious young man
7638like yourself spends years
7639
76401640
764101:24:30,691 --> 01:24:33,861
7642with his head buried
7643in some terrible spectacle,
7644
76451641
764601:24:33,944 --> 01:24:36,071
7647gets frustrated
7648with the process,
7649
76501642
765101:24:36,155 --> 01:24:38,908
7652sees an opportunity
7653to get the truth out faster,
7654
76551643
765601:24:38,991 --> 01:24:40,242
7657maybe crosses a line.
7658
76591644
766001:24:40,326 --> 01:24:41,911
7661I’m assuming this is
7662the most important thing
7663
76641645
766501:24:41,994 --> 01:24:43,746
7666- you’ve ever been a part of.
7667- I didn’t do it.
7668
76691646
767001:24:43,829 --> 01:24:45,456
7671Or I can see
7672an equally ambitious senator
7673
76741647
767501:24:45,539 --> 01:24:46,749
7676encouraging you
7677to do something.
7678
76791648
768001:24:46,832 --> 01:24:48,501
7681Now would be
7682a good time to tell me.
7683
76841649
768501:24:48,584 --> 01:24:49,919
7686That did not happen.
7687
76881650
768901:24:50,002 --> 01:24:51,796
7690What I did, I did on my own.
7691I acted alone.
7692
76931651
769401:24:51,879 --> 01:24:53,631
7695- So you did steal the document?
7696- I did not steal it.
7697
76981652
769901:24:53,714 --> 01:24:55,007
7700- You needed it to...
7701- I relocated it.
7702
77031653
770401:24:55,090 --> 01:24:56,175
7705I put it in a safe.
7706
77071654
770801:24:56,258 --> 01:24:58,302
7709If they had a way
7710of destroying tapes,
7711
77121655
771301:24:58,385 --> 01:24:59,845
7714- then surely they could get...
7715- Everyone has their own words.
7716
77171656
771801:24:59,929 --> 01:25:01,597
7719The language is built
7720to choose sides.
7721
77221657
772301:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,974
7724Now, why did you relocate it?
7725
77261658
772701:25:08,270 --> 01:25:10,856
7728Documents had a way of
7729disappearing off the server.
7730
77311659
773201:25:10,940 --> 01:25:14,443
7733For instance, in 2010,
7734over 800 documents
7735
77361660
773701:25:14,527 --> 01:25:17,488
7738just vanished
7739without any explanation.
7740
77411661
774201:25:17,571 --> 01:25:20,199
7743So you had computer issues
7744all along.
7745
77461662
774701:25:21,367 --> 01:25:23,160
7748Who else knew
7749what was on the computers?
7750
77511663
775201:25:23,244 --> 01:25:25,996
7753Well, the CIA hired an outside
7754firm to vet the documents:
7755
77561664
775701:25:26,080 --> 01:25:27,331
7758CENTRA.
7759
77601665
776101:25:27,414 --> 01:25:29,333
7762And CACI was also involved.
7763
77641666
776501:25:29,416 --> 01:25:31,210
7766- Who are they?
7767- Contractors.
7768
77691667
777001:25:31,293 --> 01:25:33,087
7771But Jim Pavitt
7772is on their board.
7773
77741668
777501:25:34,630 --> 01:25:37,007
7776Former deputy director
7777of operations for the CIA,
7778
77791669
778001:25:37,091 --> 01:25:40,261
7781Jim Pavitt, during the program,
7782Jim Pavitt.
7783
77841670
778501:25:40,344 --> 01:25:42,179
7786And is he named in the report?
7787
77881671
778901:25:43,472 --> 01:25:44,765
7790Can’t tell me.
7791
77921672
779301:25:46,016 --> 01:25:48,727
7794So they can’t destroy
7795the document.
7796
77971673
779801:25:48,811 --> 01:25:51,897
7799Then they can go after
7800the next best thing: you.
7801
78021674
780301:25:51,981 --> 01:25:54,108
7804Make you a zealot.
7805
78061675
780701:25:54,191 --> 01:25:57,278
7808Anything you touch is tainted.
7809
78101676
781101:25:57,361 --> 01:25:59,780
7812I could see the Agency saying
7813that this is a violation
7814
78151677
781601:25:59,864 --> 01:26:04,577
7817of the Espionage Act, the...
7818Computer Fraud and Abuse Act,
7819
78201678
782101:26:04,660 --> 01:26:06,871
7822uh, who knows what else.
7823
78241679
782501:26:06,954 --> 01:26:08,873
7826And if they file
7827a charge against me,
7828
78291680
783001:26:08,956 --> 01:26:10,749
7831how long could I go away for?
7832
78331681
783401:26:10,833 --> 01:26:13,836
7835I don’t know.
783620 years, maybe more.
7837
78381682
783901:26:23,929 --> 01:26:27,474
7840I did not hack into
7841the CIA computer system.
7842
78431683
784401:26:29,476 --> 01:26:33,480
7845I mean, my com... my computer
7846skills stop at Microsoft Word.
7847
78481684
784901:26:33,564 --> 01:26:35,274
7850They probably know that.
7851
78521685
785301:26:35,357 --> 01:26:36,859
7854Let me ask you something:
7855
78561686
785701:26:36,942 --> 01:26:39,194
7858How much does
7859a Senate staffer make?
7860
78611687
786201:26:39,278 --> 01:26:41,030
7863At my level?
7864About-about a hundred grand.
7865
78661688
786701:26:41,113 --> 01:26:43,657
7868Any retirement, savings,
7869family money?
7870
78711689
787201:26:43,741 --> 01:26:45,951
7873No.
7874
78751690
787601:26:46,035 --> 01:26:48,454
7877So, we should discuss
7878my retainer.
7879
78801691
788101:26:48,537 --> 01:26:50,915
7882- How much is that?
7883- $30,000 to start.
7884
78851692
788601:26:50,998 --> 01:26:53,584
7887And if it goes to trial,
7888add a zero.
7889
78901693
789101:26:55,336 --> 01:26:56,795
7892Nothing could make them happier
7893
78941694
789501:26:56,879 --> 01:26:59,298
7896than knowing you’re
7897sitting here talking to me.
7898
78991695
790001:26:59,381 --> 01:27:00,925
7901That’s what they want, Dan.
7902
79031696
790401:27:01,008 --> 01:27:05,179
7905Make you bleed money
7906all over my floor.
7907
79081697
790901:27:05,262 --> 01:27:08,265
7910Do you want my expert opinion,
7911for free?
7912
79131698
791401:27:08,349 --> 01:27:11,769
7915You don’t really have
7916a legal problem.
7917
79181699
791901:27:11,852 --> 01:27:14,063
7920You have a sunlight problem.
7921
79221700
792301:27:14,146 --> 01:27:17,775
7924I’m sure you know people
7925who can help you solve it.
7926
79271701
792801:27:31,705 --> 01:27:33,248
7929Daniel Jones.
7930
79311702
793201:27:33,332 --> 01:27:34,708
7933I didn’t think
7934you’d ever return my calls.
7935
79361703
793701:27:34,792 --> 01:27:36,210
7938Does your boss know
7939you’re talking to
7940
79411704
794201:27:36,293 --> 01:27:38,003
7943a guy with a byline
7944and a tape recorder?
7945
79461705
794701:27:38,087 --> 01:27:39,338
7948There’s something going on
7949I think you should look into.
7950
79511706
795201:27:39,421 --> 01:27:41,715
7953It involves the Agency.
7954
79551707
795601:27:43,384 --> 01:27:45,928
7957Okay. Is it that report
7958you’ve been working on,
7959
79601708
796101:27:46,011 --> 01:27:47,596
7962the one that
7963never quite comes out?
7964
79651709
796601:27:47,680 --> 01:27:50,557
7967Computers. It has to do with
7968the hacking of computers.
7969
79701710
797101:27:50,641 --> 01:27:52,977
7972All right, whose?
7973
79741711
797501:27:54,687 --> 01:27:56,939
7976The United States Senate.
7977
79781712
797901:27:57,022 --> 01:27:59,358
7980Someone hacked into the Senate?
7981
79821713
798301:28:01,443 --> 01:28:03,153
7984No shit? Okay.
7985
79861714
798701:28:03,237 --> 01:28:06,240
7988You have any idea if it was
7989foreign or domestic?
7990
79911715
799201:28:06,323 --> 01:28:08,033
7993Uh, all right, yes, you...
7994
79951716
799601:28:08,117 --> 01:28:09,702
7997sorry, you said
7998it was the Agency.
7999
80001717
800101:28:09,785 --> 01:28:11,787
8002So what-what does the CIA
8003
80041718
800501:28:11,870 --> 01:28:13,247
8006have to do with
8007U.S. Senate computers?
8008
80091719
801001:28:13,330 --> 01:28:14,623
8011Evan, you’re the
8012national security reporter
8013
80141720
801501:28:14,707 --> 01:28:15,666
8016for The New York Times.
8017
80181721
801901:28:15,749 --> 01:28:18,460
8020You can figure it out.
8021All right?
8022
80231722
802401:28:21,130 --> 01:28:22,881
8025Hmm.
8026
80271723
802801:28:23,841 --> 01:28:25,050
8029Morning, Senator.
8030
80311724
803201:28:25,134 --> 01:28:26,593
8033You wanted to see me?
8034
80351725
803601:28:26,677 --> 01:28:28,595
8037You know anything about this?
8038
80391726
804001:28:28,679 --> 01:28:33,017
8041"Computer Searches at Center
8042of Dispute on CIA Detentions."
8043
80441727
804501:28:33,100 --> 01:28:34,977
8046You have any idea
8047how that ended up
8048
80491728
805001:28:35,060 --> 01:28:36,895
8051- in The New York Times?
8052- Yeah, I saw that.
8053
80541729
805501:28:36,979 --> 01:28:38,522
8056It looks accurate.
8057
80581730
805901:28:38,605 --> 01:28:41,400
8060Senator McCain is already
8061calling the CIA a rogue agency.
8062
80631731
806401:28:41,483 --> 01:28:42,776
8065What are your thoughts on
8066
80671732
806801:28:42,860 --> 01:28:45,446
8069someone like
8070Edward Snowden, Dan?
8071
80721733
807301:28:45,529 --> 01:28:48,323
8074W-Well, Senator, I know
8075how you feel about leaks.
8076
80771734
807801:28:48,407 --> 01:28:50,993
8079I think he’s a traitor,
8080plain and simple.
8081
80821735
808301:28:51,076 --> 01:28:52,828
8084It’s my job
8085to provide oversight
8086
80871736
808801:28:52,911 --> 01:28:54,455
8089with the tools of governance,
8090
80911737
809201:28:54,538 --> 01:28:57,416
8093not lights and cameras
8094and headlines.
8095
80961738
809701:29:01,837 --> 01:29:03,714
8098Do you want me to resign?
8099
81001739
810101:29:07,426 --> 01:29:09,261
8102No.
8103
81041740
810501:29:09,344 --> 01:29:12,222
8106But I think I might need you
8107to write me a speech.
8108
81091741
811001:29:16,310 --> 01:29:18,353
8111Senator Feinstein claimed today
8112
81131742
811401:29:18,437 --> 01:29:21,732
8115on the Senate floor
8116that the CIA hacked
8117
81181743
811901:29:21,815 --> 01:29:23,609
8120the Senate Intelligence
8121Committee’s computers
8122
81231744
812401:29:23,692 --> 01:29:26,153
8125to thwart an investigation
8126into past practices.
8127
81281745
812901:29:26,236 --> 01:29:27,654
8130Can you respond to that?
8131
81321746
813301:29:27,738 --> 01:29:31,116
8134Well, first,
8135we in no way, shape or form
8136
81371747
813801:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,161
8139tried to thwart
8140the release of the report.
8141
81421748
814301:29:34,244 --> 01:29:36,830
8144Uh, we want that behind us.
8145
81461749
814701:29:36,914 --> 01:29:39,666
8148As far as this allegation
8149that the CIA
8150
81511750
815201:29:39,750 --> 01:29:42,503
8153somehow hacked into
8154the Senate computer system,
8155
81561751
815701:29:42,586 --> 01:29:46,548
8158nothing could be
8159further from the truth.
8160
81611752
816201:29:46,632 --> 01:29:49,009
8163We just wouldn’t do that.
8164
81651753
816601:29:49,093 --> 01:29:51,095
8167It’s beyond
8168the scope of reason.
8169
81701754
817101:30:01,647 --> 01:30:03,398
8172Thank you.
8173
81741755
817501:30:03,482 --> 01:30:05,192
8176I understand
8177your position, Senator,
8178
81791756
818001:30:05,275 --> 01:30:07,736
8181and I am aware of
8182Director Brennan’s comments.
8183
81841757
818501:30:07,820 --> 01:30:09,780
8186Did you hear what Lindsey
8187Graham said this morning,
8188
81891758
819001:30:09,863 --> 01:30:12,741
8191about the Agency
8192breaking into our computers?
8193
81941759
819501:30:12,825 --> 01:30:15,994
8196"The legislative branch
8197should declare war on the CIA.
8198
81991760
820001:30:16,078 --> 01:30:19,665
8201Heads should roll,
8202people should go to jail."
8203
82041761
820501:30:19,748 --> 01:30:23,085
8206Is that what you want?
8207Send people to jail?
8208
82091762
821001:30:23,168 --> 01:30:25,796
8211We do have jails for a reason.
8212
82131763
821401:30:25,879 --> 01:30:28,048
8215The Justice Department
8216investigated the CIA,
8217
82181764
821901:30:28,132 --> 01:30:29,883
8220and they decided
8221not to prosecute.
8222
82231765
822401:30:29,967 --> 01:30:32,177
8225It’s their call, not ours.
8226
82271766
822801:30:32,261 --> 01:30:34,638
8229Now, when this administration
8230took office,
8231
82321767
823301:30:34,721 --> 01:30:36,265
8234we faced
8235the very real possibility
8236
82371768
823801:30:36,348 --> 01:30:38,767
8239of economic collapse.
8240
82411769
824201:30:38,851 --> 01:30:40,310
8243We had a decision to make:
8244
82451770
824601:30:40,394 --> 01:30:42,604
8247Do we spend our political
8248capital on going around
8249
82501771
825101:30:42,688 --> 01:30:45,440
8252trying to find people to blame,
8253or do we solve the problem?
8254
82551772
825601:30:45,524 --> 01:30:47,359
8257Maybe the way
8258to solve the problem
8259
82601773
826101:30:47,442 --> 01:30:49,778
8262is to hold people accountable.
8263
82641774
826501:30:49,862 --> 01:30:52,489
8266Do you ever wonder
8267why history repeats itself?
8268
82691775
827001:30:52,573 --> 01:30:54,116
8271Well, I think
8272maybe it’s because
8273
82741776
827501:30:54,199 --> 01:30:55,742
8276we don’t always listen
8277the first time.
8278
82791777
828001:30:55,826 --> 01:30:59,204
8281Senator, the people at the
8282Agency... they have families.
8283
82841778
828501:30:59,288 --> 01:31:02,166
8286There are children
8287who might lose a parent.
8288
82891779
829001:31:04,668 --> 01:31:09,173
8291Years ago, some radical group
8292put a bomb in the flower box
8293
82941780
829501:31:09,256 --> 01:31:12,551
8296outside of my daughter’s
8297bedroom window, right out here.
8298
82991781
830001:31:12,634 --> 01:31:15,429
8301Had it been any warmer out,
8302it would have exploded.
8303
83041782
830501:31:15,512 --> 01:31:16,889
8306And then there was the time
8307
83081783
830901:31:16,972 --> 01:31:21,018
8310that I found Harvey Milk
8311shot to death in his office.
8312
83131784
831401:31:21,101 --> 01:31:24,062
8315I-I think I’m aware of
8316the risks of public service.
8317
83181785
831901:31:24,146 --> 01:31:27,274
8320President Obama
8321ended the torture program
8322
83231786
832401:31:27,357 --> 01:31:29,735
8325three days after taking office.
8326
83271787
832801:31:29,818 --> 01:31:34,406
8329The EITs, what the CIA did...
8330that is not our mess.
8331
83321788
833301:31:34,489 --> 01:31:35,991
8334No, it’s not,
8335
83361789
833701:31:36,074 --> 01:31:39,578
8338but that’s not the question
8339we’re asking, is it?
8340
83411790
834201:31:39,661 --> 01:31:43,957
8343The question we’re asking is:
8344Who is going to clean it up?
8345
83461791
834701:31:44,041 --> 01:31:45,626
8348So let’s do that.
8349
83501792
835101:31:45,709 --> 01:31:50,505
8352Right after Director Brennan
8353apologizes to me and my staff.
8354
83551793
835601:31:52,174 --> 01:31:53,842
8357The inspector general is here.
8358
83591794
836001:31:53,926 --> 01:31:55,636
8361Go ahead in.
8362
83631795
836401:31:55,719 --> 01:31:59,681
8365In regards to the CIA
8366search of Senate computers,
8367
83681796
836901:31:59,765 --> 01:32:01,642
8370we’ve looked into the matter
8371
83721797
837301:32:01,725 --> 01:32:04,937
8374and have recommended
8375that the Department of Justice
8376
83771798
837801:32:05,020 --> 01:32:06,980
8379begin a criminal investigation.
8380
83811799
838201:32:07,064 --> 01:32:08,023
8383Good.
8384
83851800
838601:32:08,106 --> 01:32:09,816
8387So have we.
8388
83891801
839001:32:09,900 --> 01:32:12,277
8391Dan Jones,
8392lead Senate investigator.
8393
83941802
839501:32:12,361 --> 01:32:14,947
8396Not the Senate staff.
8397
83981803
839901:32:15,030 --> 01:32:16,823
8400The CIA.
8401
84021804
840301:32:16,907 --> 01:32:18,492
8404Us?
8405
84061805
840701:32:18,575 --> 01:32:22,079
8408Are-are you accusing me or
8409my staff of breaking the law?
8410
84111806
841201:32:22,162 --> 01:32:24,289
8413My understanding is
8414that five CIA employees
8415
84161807
841701:32:24,373 --> 01:32:27,125
8418entered a room
8419that was off-limits.
8420
84211808
842201:32:27,209 --> 01:32:28,335
8423On whose orders?
8424
84251809
842601:32:28,418 --> 01:32:30,587
8427Senator Feinstein
8428is right to call this
8429
84301810
843101:32:30,671 --> 01:32:32,714
8432a violation of
8433the separation of powers.
8434
84351811
843601:32:32,798 --> 01:32:37,302
8437The CIA cannot spy
8438on the U.S. Congress.
8439
84401812
844101:32:39,221 --> 01:32:41,765
8442As inspector general,
8443I’m gonna have to launch
8444
84451813
844601:32:41,848 --> 01:32:45,978
8447a full investigation
8448into the Agency’s actions.
8449
84501814
845101:33:05,998 --> 01:33:07,374
8452Am I going to jail?
8453
84541815
845501:33:07,457 --> 01:33:09,501
8456No, they’re
8457dropping the charges.
8458
84591816
846001:33:09,584 --> 01:33:11,295
8461You’re going back to work.
8462
84631817
846401:33:11,378 --> 01:33:14,047
8465Take the most important
8466findings, finish the summary...
8467
84681818
846901:33:14,131 --> 01:33:15,674
8470no more than 400 pages.
8471
84721819
847301:33:15,757 --> 01:33:19,636
8474I’m going to ask the committee
8475to vote to release it.
8476
84771820
847801:33:25,642 --> 01:33:27,477
8479McDONOUGH:
8480So, you saw they voted.
8481
84821821
848301:33:27,561 --> 01:33:29,062
848411 to three.
8485
84861822
848701:33:29,146 --> 01:33:31,398
8488They want to release
8489an executive summary.
8490
84911823
849201:33:31,481 --> 01:33:33,817
8493That thing goes out,
8494it puts my people in danger,
8495
84961824
849701:33:33,900 --> 01:33:36,695
8498who are out there
8499in a dangerous world today,
8500
85011825
850201:33:36,778 --> 01:33:38,155
8503trying to do their jobs.
8504
85051826
850601:33:38,238 --> 01:33:39,865
8507Pulls the rug
8508out from under them.
8509
85101827
851101:33:39,948 --> 01:33:43,035
8512Anything that you feel
8513puts your people in harm’s way
8514
85151828
851601:33:43,118 --> 01:33:44,369
8517stays classified.
8518
85191829
852001:33:44,453 --> 01:33:47,247
8521My concern is this:
8522If-if the Senate puts out
8523
85241830
852501:33:47,331 --> 01:33:49,249
8526a small pile of pages
8527and the press goes nuts,
8528
85291831
853001:33:49,333 --> 01:33:52,419
8531then everybody’s gonna want
8532to see a bigger pile of pages.
8533
85341832
853501:33:52,502 --> 01:33:54,880
8536You keep saying the president
8537wants to turn the page.
8538
85391833
854001:33:54,963 --> 01:33:57,049
8541Well, then turn the page.
8542
85431834
854401:33:57,132 --> 01:33:59,426
8545Close the damn book.
8546
85471835
854801:34:05,098 --> 01:34:07,267
8549Senator Feinstein
8550has asked the White House
8551
85521836
855301:34:07,351 --> 01:34:10,645
8554to head up final comments
8555and redactions.
8556
85571837
855801:34:10,729 --> 01:34:13,815
8559She wants us
8560right in the middle of it.
8561
85621838
856301:34:13,899 --> 01:34:15,192
8564And?
8565
85661839
856701:34:15,275 --> 01:34:19,112
8568And I think that’s exactly
8569where you want us.
8570
85711840
857201:34:19,196 --> 01:34:21,365
8573You’ll have the pen.
8574
85751841
857601:34:23,283 --> 01:34:24,826
8577Leadership specified
8578
85791842
858001:34:24,910 --> 01:34:27,162
8581that we should redact
8582anything that could result in
8583
85841843
858501:34:27,245 --> 01:34:28,914
8586legal exposure
8587for officers in the field,
8588
85891844
859001:34:28,997 --> 01:34:30,916
8591past or present.
8592
85931845
859401:34:30,999 --> 01:34:35,045
8595Basically, if there’s
8596any questions, black it out.
8597
85981846
859901:34:40,842 --> 01:34:43,011
8600You see this?
8601
86021847
860301:34:51,019 --> 01:34:52,604
8604What the...
8605
86061848
860701:34:52,687 --> 01:34:54,981
8608fuck is this?
8609
86101849
861101:34:58,485 --> 01:34:59,861
8612Good afternoon. Where’s Marcy?
8613
86141850
861501:34:59,945 --> 01:35:01,029
8616Conference room.
8617
86181851
861901:35:01,113 --> 01:35:02,739
8620Early the next week.
8621
86221852
862301:35:02,823 --> 01:35:05,033
8624Wednesday.
8625
86261853
862701:35:05,117 --> 01:35:06,410
8628Yeah, that’ll work.
8629
86301854
863101:35:06,493 --> 01:35:09,204
8632And you get me the agenda.
8633Thank you.
8634
86351855
863601:35:11,706 --> 01:35:13,375
8637Imagine you pick up a book,
8638
86391856
864001:35:13,458 --> 01:35:16,420
8641and "blank" turns water
8642into wine on page 237,
8643
86441857
864501:35:16,503 --> 01:35:19,297
8646and on page 71
8647"blank" heals a leper,
8648
86491858
865001:35:19,381 --> 01:35:22,676
8651and on page 295
8652"blank" rises from the dead.
8653
86541859
865501:35:22,759 --> 01:35:25,053
8656How do you know the blanks
8657are all the same person?
8658
86591860
866001:35:25,137 --> 01:35:27,722
8661I thought that the CIA
8662agreed to using pseudonyms.
8663
86641861
866501:35:27,806 --> 01:35:30,600
8666They did, but now even
8667the fake names are gone.
8668
86691862
867001:35:30,684 --> 01:35:33,061
8671And the dates.
8672
86731863
867401:35:34,980 --> 01:35:36,857
8675The entire story is gone.
8676
86771864
867801:35:44,281 --> 01:35:47,200
8679I hope you took
8680your strong pills today.
8681
86821865
868301:35:48,827 --> 01:35:51,455
8684McDONOUGH: Isn’t it enough
8685to know what actually happened?
8686
86871866
868801:35:51,538 --> 01:35:53,999
8689Do we need to know the names
8690of the people involved?
8691
86921867
869301:35:54,082 --> 01:35:55,792
8694But the actual names
8695aren’t in the report.
8696
86971868
869801:35:55,876 --> 01:35:57,836
8699Someone could figure out
8700who our people are
8701
87021869
870301:35:57,919 --> 01:35:59,004
8704based on their pseudonyms.
8705
87061870
870701:35:59,087 --> 01:36:00,922
8708You know, I found
8709a photo of my husband
8710
87111871
871201:36:01,006 --> 01:36:02,924
8713on the Internet
8714linking him to me.
8715
87161872
871701:36:03,008 --> 01:36:04,468
8718Secrecy is very hard
8719to maintain.
8720
87211873
872201:36:04,551 --> 01:36:06,219
8723I believe you introduced
8724your husband publicly
8725
87261874
872701:36:06,303 --> 01:36:07,637
8728at your confirmation hearing.
8729
87301875
873101:36:07,721 --> 01:36:08,722
8732It was on C-SPAN.
8733
87341876
873501:36:08,805 --> 01:36:10,265
8736Some of these people...
8737
87381877
873901:36:10,348 --> 01:36:12,392
8740they are out there
8741in the world, right now.
8742
87431878
874401:36:12,476 --> 01:36:13,477
8745Yes, they are.
8746
87471879
874801:36:13,560 --> 01:36:15,103
8749There’s an officer
8750from Alec Station
8751
87521880
875301:36:15,187 --> 01:36:17,230
8754mentioned 41 times
8755in 500 pages.
8756
87571881
875801:36:17,314 --> 01:36:19,232
8759In 1998, her team
8760missed the bombing
8761
87621882
876301:36:19,316 --> 01:36:22,027
8764of the U.S. embassy
8765in Kenya and Tanzania.
8766
87671883
876801:36:22,110 --> 01:36:23,403
87691999, they missed the bombing
8770
87711884
877201:36:23,487 --> 01:36:25,238
8773of the Marriott Hotel
8774in Islamabad.
8775
87761885
877701:36:25,322 --> 01:36:28,909
8778In 2000, she was made aware
8779of two Al Qaeda operatives
8780
87811886
878201:36:28,992 --> 01:36:30,744
8783who arrived in Los Angeles.
8784
87851887
878601:36:30,827 --> 01:36:32,370
8787FBI officers, working within
8788the bin Laden unit,
8789
87901888
879101:36:32,454 --> 01:36:33,914
8792requested permission
8793to investigate.
8794
87951889
879601:36:33,997 --> 01:36:35,624
8797That’s not how
8798we want to play it.
8799
88001890
880101:36:35,707 --> 01:36:38,043
8802The CIA knew
8803they were on American soil
8804
88051891
880601:36:38,126 --> 01:36:39,961
8807and didn’t do anything.
8808
88091892
881001:36:40,045 --> 01:36:42,297
8811Al-Mihdhar then left the States
8812to play a key role
8813
88141893
881501:36:42,380 --> 01:36:43,924
8816in the bombing of the USS Cole,
8817
88181894
881901:36:44,007 --> 01:36:47,010
8820before returning to hijack
8821Flight 77 with al-Hazmi
8822
88231895
882401:36:47,093 --> 01:36:48,678
8825and crash into the Pentagon.
8826
88271896
882801:36:48,762 --> 01:36:51,097
8829And you want to
8830protect this person’s identity.
8831
88321897
883301:36:51,181 --> 01:36:52,641
8834We’d also like to redact
8835
88361898
883701:36:52,724 --> 01:36:54,309
8838the pseudonyms
8839of the contractors.
8840
88411899
884201:36:54,392 --> 01:36:58,021
8843Dr. Mitchell was already quoted
8844by name in The New Yorker.
8845
88461900
884701:36:58,104 --> 01:37:00,815
8848He was handing out brochures
8849at professional conferences
8850
88511901
885201:37:00,899 --> 01:37:03,026
8853telling people
8854he worked for the CIA.
8855
88561902
885701:37:03,109 --> 01:37:05,695
8858If we are protecting
8859the identities of CIA staff,
8860
88611903
886201:37:05,779 --> 01:37:08,031
8863we need to protect
8864our contractors as well.
8865
88661904
886701:37:08,114 --> 01:37:10,325
8868Mitchell and Jessen were given
8869a contract by the Agency
8870
88711905
887201:37:10,408 --> 01:37:11,952
8873for a program that didn’t work.
8874
88751906
887601:37:12,035 --> 01:37:13,745
8877The CIA also agreed
8878to a five million dollar
8879
88801907
888101:37:13,828 --> 01:37:16,706
8882indemnification clause
8883for their company that covered,
8884
88851908
888601:37:16,790 --> 01:37:19,876
8887among other expenses,
8888criminal prosecution.
8889
88901909
889101:37:19,960 --> 01:37:23,338
8892You know, I kept
8893the rag we used on KSM.
8894
88951910
889601:37:23,421 --> 01:37:27,217
8897You should eBay that bad boy
8898when this is all over.
8899
89001911
890101:37:27,300 --> 01:37:30,053
8902Make a mint.
8903
89041912
890501:37:30,136 --> 01:37:31,888
8906An internal CIA memo concluded
8907
89081913
890901:37:31,972 --> 01:37:34,724
8910that Mitchell and Jessen "have
8911both shown blatant disregard
8912
89131914
891401:37:34,808 --> 01:37:38,562
8915for the ethics shared by almost
8916all of their colleagues."
8917
89181915
891901:37:38,645 --> 01:37:41,439
8920The pseudonyms for
8921the contractors need to stay.
8922
89231916
892401:37:43,775 --> 01:37:45,360
8925McDONOUGH: Guys, we’ve been
8926at this for months.
8927
89281917
892901:37:45,443 --> 01:37:46,736
8930What about the
8931locations of the black sites?
8932
89331918
893401:37:46,820 --> 01:37:48,238
8935The country names?
8936
89371919
893801:37:48,321 --> 01:37:49,489
8939We made commitments
8940to those countries
8941
89421920
894301:37:49,573 --> 01:37:50,782
8944to maintain their secrecy.
8945
89461921
894701:37:50,865 --> 01:37:52,242
8948No country names.
8949
89501922
895101:37:52,325 --> 01:37:53,827
8952Not open to negotiating
8953these points.
8954
89551923
895601:37:53,910 --> 01:37:56,371
8957We need to consider
8958the morale of the CIA here.
8959
89601924
896101:37:56,454 --> 01:37:57,914
8962Now, we-we publish this report,
8963
89641925
896501:37:57,998 --> 01:38:00,458
8966- there’s a very good chance we could lose them.
8967- Lose them?
8968
89691926
897001:38:00,542 --> 01:38:02,127
8971What does that mean?
8972
89731927
897401:38:02,210 --> 01:38:04,087
8975What about the morale
8976of all the people at the Agency
8977
89781928
897901:38:04,170 --> 01:38:05,422
8980who spoke out
8981against the program?
8982
89831929
898401:38:05,505 --> 01:38:06,840
8985What about them?
8986
89871930
898801:38:06,923 --> 01:38:08,925
8989People who sent cables back
8990from black sites
8991
89921931
899301:38:09,009 --> 01:38:10,552
8994saying they wanted
8995to be transferred
8996
89971932
899801:38:10,635 --> 01:38:12,554
8999because they were disgusted by
9000what was being done.
9001
90021933
900301:38:12,637 --> 01:38:13,972
9004All right, uh, look.
9005
90061934
900701:38:14,055 --> 01:38:15,974
9008We have...
9009Dan more than anyone...
9010
90111935
901201:38:16,057 --> 01:38:18,310
9013have worked to uncover
9014the truth about this
9015
90161936
901701:38:18,393 --> 01:38:19,644
9018when no one else would.
9019
90201937
902101:38:19,728 --> 01:38:21,813
9022We will not allow this
9023to be covered up
9024
90251938
902601:38:21,896 --> 01:38:23,106
9027by the executive branch.
9028
90291939
903001:38:23,189 --> 01:38:24,816
9031President Obama
9032called it torture.
9033
90341940
903501:38:24,899 --> 01:38:26,401
9036Bush and Cheney
9037wouldn’t do that.
9038
90391941
904001:38:26,484 --> 01:38:30,071
9041He signed an executive order
9042getting rid of it.
9043
90441942
904501:38:30,155 --> 01:38:31,531
9046Now, just imagine, God forbid,
9047
90481943
904901:38:31,615 --> 01:38:33,950
9050there’s another
9051terrorist attack on our watch.
9052
90531944
905401:38:34,034 --> 01:38:35,910
9055There won’t be another Democrat
9056
90571945
905801:38:35,994 --> 01:38:38,079
9059in the White House
9060for 20 years.
9061
90621946
906301:38:38,163 --> 01:38:40,248
9064I’d also like
9065to talk about the redactions
9066
90671947
906801:38:40,332 --> 01:38:42,417
9069concerning KSM.
9070
90711948
907201:38:42,500 --> 01:38:44,878
9073Cory Gardner,
9074the Republican challenger,
9075
90761949
907701:38:44,961 --> 01:38:46,755
9078will be the next
9079United States senator
9080
90811950
908201:38:46,838 --> 01:38:48,214
9083from the state of Colorado,
9084
90851951
908601:38:48,298 --> 01:38:50,884
9087defeating the Democratic
9088incumbent, Mark Udall.
9089
90901952
909101:38:50,967 --> 01:38:53,928
9092A major, major win
9093for the Republicans.
9094
90951953
909601:38:54,012 --> 01:38:56,097
9097Chris Frates is standing by
9098in Colorado.
9099
91001954
910101:38:56,181 --> 01:38:58,350
9102This is huge
9103for, uh, Colorado, Wolf.
9104
91051955
910601:38:58,433 --> 01:39:01,478
9107This is the first time
9108a Republican has won
9109
91101956
911101:39:01,561 --> 01:39:04,981
9112the Senate race state-wide
9113in Colorado since 2002.
9114
91151957
911601:39:05,065 --> 01:39:06,650
9117Big night for Colorado,
9118
91191958
912001:39:06,733 --> 01:39:09,944
9121and a big night for control
9122of the United States Senate.
9123
91241959
912501:39:12,822 --> 01:39:14,991
9126She’s expecting you.
9127
91281960
912901:39:15,075 --> 01:39:17,410
9130So, I just got a call
9131
91321961
913301:39:17,494 --> 01:39:20,121
9134from Secretary of State Kerry.
9135
91361962
913701:39:20,205 --> 01:39:23,249
9138He thinks that,
9139with the release of the report,
9140
91411963
914201:39:23,333 --> 01:39:27,128
9143that the coalition against ISIL
9144could collapse.
9145
91461964
914701:39:27,212 --> 01:39:29,130
9148Isn’t that a bit convenient?
9149
91501965
915101:39:29,214 --> 01:39:30,840
9152- He calls you just before...
9153- Dan.
9154
91551966
915601:39:30,924 --> 01:39:33,843
9157Wh-Where did Kerry get
9158his intel on this? The CIA?
9159
91601967
916101:39:33,927 --> 01:39:37,138
9162- Is it credible?
9163- Embassies could be attacked.
9164
91651968
916601:39:37,222 --> 01:39:38,807
9167Hostages could be killed.
9168
91691969
917001:39:38,890 --> 01:39:40,892
9171It’s just another stall tactic.
9172
91731970
917401:39:42,519 --> 01:39:45,063
9175He suggested giving the report
9176to the president,
9177
91781971
917901:39:45,146 --> 01:39:48,858
9180so that it could be released
9181later, when hostilities cease.
9182
91831972
918401:39:48,942 --> 01:39:51,820
9185You lose control of the
9186committee in a week, Senator.
9187
91881973
918901:39:51,903 --> 01:39:53,488
9190Yes, I am aware of what happens
9191
91921974
919301:39:53,571 --> 01:39:56,282
9194when the Republicans
9195are in the majority, Dan.
9196
91971975
919801:39:57,826 --> 01:40:01,496
9199Look, I want to get this report
9200out as much as anyone,
9201
92021976
920301:40:01,579 --> 01:40:04,582
9204but I have known him
9205a long time.
9206
92071977
920801:40:04,666 --> 01:40:06,000
9209I tend to believe him.
9210
92111978
921201:40:06,084 --> 01:40:07,752
9213Nobody else is gonna
9214tell this story.
9215
92161979
921701:40:07,836 --> 01:40:09,254
9218- Dan, the senator has a luncheon.
9219- If we stop now,
9220
92211980
922201:40:09,337 --> 01:40:10,714
9223aren’t we a part
9224of the cover-up?
9225
92261981
922701:40:10,797 --> 01:40:12,757
9228Strong pills, Senator?
9229
92301982
923101:40:21,349 --> 01:40:24,936
9232I think you should go home
9233and get some rest.
9234
92351983
923601:40:25,019 --> 01:40:26,730
9237You look tired.
9238
92391984
924001:40:26,813 --> 01:40:31,109
9241Marcy, if I could
9242have five minutes.
9243
92441985
924501:40:31,192 --> 01:40:33,153
9246Of course.
9247
92481986
924901:42:11,668 --> 01:42:14,838
9250Did you ever meet a guy
9251called Greg Craig?
9252
92531987
925401:42:16,464 --> 01:42:19,384
9255Just in pa... White House
9256counsel when Obama took office?
9257
92581988
925901:42:19,467 --> 01:42:21,928
9260- Just in passing.
9261- Right.
9262
92631989
926401:42:22,011 --> 01:42:26,224
9265So, right after he got elected,
9266the president asked Craig
9267
92681990
926901:42:26,307 --> 01:42:28,226
9270to come up with a plan
9271to deal with
9272
92731991
927401:42:28,309 --> 01:42:29,894
9275the aftermath
9276of the torture program.
9277
92781992
927901:42:29,978 --> 01:42:33,690
9280So, he got Secretary of Defense
9281Gates, Janet Napolitano,
9282
92831993
928401:42:33,773 --> 01:42:35,942
9285Hillary Clinton...
9286serious people... in a room,
9287
92881994
928901:42:36,025 --> 01:42:39,445
9290and he asked for
9291their recommendation.
9292
92931995
929401:42:39,529 --> 01:42:42,740
9295- And?
9296- A-And the consensus
9297
92981996
929901:42:42,824 --> 01:42:44,784
9300was that the president
9301should appoint
9302
93031997
930401:42:44,868 --> 01:42:46,619
9305an independent
9306bipartisan commission
9307
93081998
930901:42:46,703 --> 01:42:48,788
9310into interrogations
9311and detainee treatment,
9312
93131999
931401:42:48,872 --> 01:42:51,624
9315like a deep dive into
9316what worked and what didn’t
9317
93182000
931901:42:51,708 --> 01:42:54,919
9320and... who was responsible.
9321
93222001
932301:42:55,003 --> 01:42:56,921
9324You know, like what they did
9325after 9/11,
9326
93272002
932801:42:57,005 --> 01:43:00,008
9329and like what you’ve been
9330trying to do.
9331
93322003
933301:43:00,091 --> 01:43:01,676
9334So why didn’t they do that?
9335
93362004
933701:43:01,759 --> 01:43:04,804
9338Well, evidently,
9339the president listened closely
9340
93412005
934201:43:04,888 --> 01:43:06,598
9343to the recommendation.
9344
93452006
934601:43:06,681 --> 01:43:10,727
9347He then thought about it,
9348and then he said no.
9349
93502007
935101:43:10,810 --> 01:43:15,023
9352He’d spent an entire campaign
9353saying he was post-partisan,
9354
93552008
935601:43:15,106 --> 01:43:17,233
9357so going after
9358the Bush administration
9359
93602009
936101:43:17,317 --> 01:43:19,527
9362flew in the face of all that.
9363
93642010
936501:43:19,611 --> 01:43:24,240
9366And right then, everyone in
9367that room changed their minds.
9368
93692011
937001:43:24,324 --> 01:43:28,620
9371They sided with the president:
9372no independent commission.
9373
93742012
937501:43:28,703 --> 01:43:31,414
9376Everyone except Craig,
9377
93782013
937901:43:31,497 --> 01:43:34,876
9380because he thought
9381it was too important.
9382
93832014
938401:43:34,959 --> 01:43:36,836
9385You couldn’t just
9386torture people,
9387
93882015
938901:43:36,920 --> 01:43:40,924
9390lie about it,
9391and then hide it from history.
9392
93932016
939401:43:41,007 --> 01:43:44,010
9395A few months later,
9396Craig was gone,
9397
93982017
939901:43:44,093 --> 01:43:47,096
9400and this mess
9401wound up with the Senate.
9402
94032018
940401:43:47,180 --> 01:43:48,932
9405And you.
9406
94072019
940801:43:49,015 --> 01:43:51,476
9409Well, the president must have
9410known that, by doing that,
9411
94122020
941301:43:51,559 --> 01:43:53,353
9414he was making it
9415next to impossible.
9416
94172021
941801:43:53,436 --> 01:43:55,980
9419Uh, he came from the Senate.
9420
94212022
942201:43:56,064 --> 01:43:59,025
9423Dan, they sent you off
9424to build a boat,
9425
94262023
942701:43:59,108 --> 01:44:01,194
9428but they had no intention
9429of sailing it.
9430
94312024
943201:44:01,277 --> 01:44:05,156
9433They probably didn’t think
9434you’d get as far as you did.
9435
94362025
943701:44:09,369 --> 01:44:11,245
9438Let me ask you a question.
9439
94402026
944101:44:11,329 --> 01:44:15,041
9442If the CIA knew
9443that torture didn’t work,
9444
94452027
944601:44:15,124 --> 01:44:17,251
9447why did they continue to do it?
9448
94492028
945001:44:19,003 --> 01:44:21,381
9451After 9/11,
9452everyone was scared...
9453
94542029
945501:44:23,591 --> 01:44:25,093
9456...scared it might
9457happen again,
9458
94592030
946001:44:25,176 --> 01:44:27,428
9461and the CIA would be blamed
9462if it did.
9463
94642031
946501:44:27,512 --> 01:44:29,263
9466Or maybe they were ashamed.
9467
94682032
946901:44:29,347 --> 01:44:31,224
9470You know, how come
9471the most sophisticated
9472
94732033
947401:44:31,307 --> 01:44:33,434
9475intelligence organization
9476on Earth
9477
94782034
947901:44:33,518 --> 01:44:35,853
9480couldn’t keep
9481its own people safe?
9482
94832035
948401:44:35,937 --> 01:44:38,690
9485But fear and shame don’t make
9486for better policy decisions,
9487
94882036
948901:44:38,773 --> 01:44:40,650
9490and the fact that
9491the people who we captured
9492
94932037
949401:44:40,733 --> 01:44:42,986
9495didn’t look like us or
9496believe the same things we do
9497
94982038
949901:44:43,069 --> 01:44:45,405
9500made it that much easier
9501to do the things we did.
9502
95032039
950401:44:45,488 --> 01:44:46,864
9505So once
9506the CIA program started,
9507
95082040
950901:44:46,948 --> 01:44:48,324
9510they had to keep
9511telling people it worked,
9512
95132041
951401:44:48,408 --> 01:44:49,492
9515even if it wasn’t true.
9516
95172042
951801:44:49,575 --> 01:44:50,952
9519Their own position was that
9520
95212043
952201:44:51,035 --> 01:44:53,413
9523if it didn’t work,
9524it was illegal.
9525
95262044
952701:44:53,496 --> 01:44:55,707
9528So they misrepresented
9529the results.
9530
95312045
953201:45:08,094 --> 01:45:13,433
9533If we had your report,
9534we would print it tomorrow.
9535
95362046
953701:45:13,516 --> 01:45:14,851
9538All of it.
9539
95402047
954101:45:16,227 --> 01:45:17,770
9542The senator said
9543she would release
9544
95452048
954601:45:17,854 --> 01:45:19,939
9547- a summary of the report.
9548- Really?
9549
95502049
955101:45:20,023 --> 01:45:22,191
9552Over the objections of the CIA
9553and the White House?
9554
95552050
955601:45:22,275 --> 01:45:23,484
9557You really think
9558that’s gonna happen?
9559
95602051
956101:45:23,568 --> 01:45:25,361
9562If I gave it to you,
9563what would happen?
9564
95652052
956601:45:32,827 --> 01:45:34,704
9567Some people will think
9568you’re a hero,
9569
95702053
957101:45:34,787 --> 01:45:36,622
9572and some will probably think
9573you’re a traitor.
9574
95752054
957601:45:36,706 --> 01:45:39,500
9577Look at Edward Snowden.
9578
95792055
958001:45:48,843 --> 01:45:50,553
9581No. If it’s gonna come out,
9582
95832056
958401:45:50,636 --> 01:45:52,472
9585it’s gonna come out
9586the right way.
9587
95882057
958901:45:52,555 --> 01:45:54,849
9590What if it doesn’t?
9591
95922058
959301:45:54,932 --> 01:45:57,143
9594Then I didn’t do my job.
9595
95962059
959701:45:59,937 --> 01:46:01,147
9598I’m sorry.
9599
96002060
960101:46:02,732 --> 01:46:04,108
9602Sorry.
9603
96042061
960501:46:50,947 --> 01:46:52,824
9606McDONOUGH: So, with
9607the Affordable Care Act
9608
96092062
961001:46:52,907 --> 01:46:54,867
9611behind us, the president
9612would like to begin
9613
96142063
961501:46:54,951 --> 01:46:57,370
9616a serious discussion
9617about immigration reform.
9618
96192064
962001:46:57,453 --> 01:46:59,455
9621Now, obviously
9622we’ve had some setbacks
9623
96242065
962501:46:59,539 --> 01:47:01,499
9626in both the House
9627and the Senate,
9628
96292066
963001:47:01,582 --> 01:47:05,503
9631uh, so strategy has become
9632paramount... unity as well.
9633
96342067
963501:47:05,586 --> 01:47:08,131
9636So, we would like to, uh,
9637really start talking about...
9638
96392068
964001:47:08,214 --> 01:47:10,049
9641Excuse me, Mr. McDonough.
9642
96432069
964401:47:10,133 --> 01:47:12,552
9645I would like to discuss
9646the report on the CIA
9647
96482070
964901:47:12,635 --> 01:47:14,095
9650and the White House’s position.
9651
96522071
965301:47:14,178 --> 01:47:16,764
9654That’s not the topic
9655of this particular caucus.
9656
96572072
965801:47:16,848 --> 01:47:18,933
9659Uh, the president
9660would like to discuss...
9661
96622073
966301:47:19,016 --> 01:47:21,435
9664Our country
9665did things the Nazis did,
9666
96672074
966801:47:21,519 --> 01:47:23,938
9669things that made us
9670condemn other regimes.
9671
96722075
967301:47:24,021 --> 01:47:26,732
9674And the position
9675of this administration
9676
96772076
967801:47:26,816 --> 01:47:28,317
9679is to suppress
9680this information,
9681
96822077
968301:47:28,401 --> 01:47:30,278
9684to keep the people
9685who did these things safe?
9686
96872078
968801:47:30,361 --> 01:47:32,196
9689I can assure you that is not
9690
96912079
969201:47:32,280 --> 01:47:34,532
9693the position of
9694this administration, Senator.
9695
96962080
969701:47:34,615 --> 01:47:36,576
9698You worked with John Brennan
9699
97002081
970101:47:36,659 --> 01:47:38,286
9702at the
9703National Security Council.
9704
97052082
970601:47:38,369 --> 01:47:41,080
9707Now, I understand that Brennan
9708gave this president
9709
97102083
971101:47:41,164 --> 01:47:43,374
9712his first security briefing
9713when he took office.
9714
97152084
971601:47:43,457 --> 01:47:45,543
9717And now CIA Director Brennan
9718
97192085
972001:47:45,626 --> 01:47:48,713
9721is working closely with the
9722president on the drone program.
9723
97242086
972501:47:48,796 --> 01:47:50,381
9726You know, it’s funny.
9727
97282087
972901:47:50,464 --> 01:47:52,133
9730Every time
9731I go over to the CIA,
9732
97332088
973401:47:52,216 --> 01:47:53,759
9735they claim I’m doing
9736the Senate’s bidding,
9737
97382089
973901:47:53,843 --> 01:47:55,136
9740and every time I come here,
9741
97422090
974301:47:55,219 --> 01:47:56,596
9744you claim I’m doing
9745the CIA’s bidding.
9746
97472091
974801:47:56,679 --> 01:47:59,974
9749I only have a few days left
9750in my term here,
9751
97522092
975301:48:00,057 --> 01:48:04,437
9754and if there isn’t a plan to
9755release the report before I go,
9756
97572093
975801:48:04,520 --> 01:48:07,106
9759I’m prepared to read it
9760on the floor of the Senate.
9761
97622094
976301:48:07,190 --> 01:48:08,649
9764And either the White House
9765
97662095
976701:48:08,733 --> 01:48:10,651
9768or the Republicans
9769will have to stop me.
9770
97712096
977201:48:10,735 --> 01:48:12,111
9773McDONOUGH:
9774What would you have us do?
9775
97762097
977701:48:12,195 --> 01:48:13,654
9778Now, we go after
9779Bush and Cheney on this,
9780
97812098
978201:48:13,738 --> 01:48:15,489
9783what’s to prevent
9784the Republicans
9785
97862099
978701:48:15,573 --> 01:48:19,368
9788from coming back at us and
9789trying to repeal health care?
9790
97912100
979201:48:19,452 --> 01:48:22,205
9793Uh, we go after the CIA,
9794uh, maybe they say,
9795
97962101
979701:48:22,288 --> 01:48:25,249
9798"Okay, well, immigration reform
9799is off the table."
9800
98012102
980201:48:25,333 --> 01:48:27,251
9803Maybe it’s gun control.
9804
98052103
980601:48:27,335 --> 01:48:32,340
9807Now, democracy is messy...
9808but let’s just think
9809
98102104
981101:48:32,423 --> 01:48:35,134
9812how many countries
9813there are in the world
9814
98152105
981601:48:35,218 --> 01:48:37,261
9817where a report like this
9818could even get done.
9819
98202106
982101:48:41,974 --> 01:48:43,935
9822I would like us to be more than
9823
98242107
982501:48:44,018 --> 01:48:45,561
9826the country
9827that did the report.
9828
98292108
983001:48:45,645 --> 01:48:48,314
9831I’d like us to be the country
9832that made it public.
9833
98342109
983501:48:48,397 --> 01:48:52,026
9836And that is what I intend
9837to see happen.
9838
98392110
984001:48:52,109 --> 01:48:53,986
9841I yield the floor
9842
98432111
984401:48:54,070 --> 01:48:57,531
9845to the senior senator
9846from California.
9847
98482112
984901:49:11,295 --> 01:49:13,214
9850Over the past six years,
9851
98522113
985301:49:13,297 --> 01:49:17,051
9854a small team of investigators
9855pored over more than
9856
98572114
985801:49:17,134 --> 01:49:21,555
98596.3 million pages
9860of CIA records
9861
98622115
986301:49:21,639 --> 01:49:23,891
9864to complete this report.
9865
98662116
986701:49:23,975 --> 01:49:27,937
9868It shows that
9869the CIA’s actions a decade ago
9870
98712117
987201:49:28,020 --> 01:49:31,732
9873are a stain on our values
9874and on our history.
9875
98762118
987701:49:31,816 --> 01:49:35,236
9878The release of
9879this 500-page summary
9880
98812119
988201:49:35,319 --> 01:49:37,238
9883cannot remove that stain,
9884
98852120
988601:49:37,321 --> 01:49:41,742
9887but it can and does say
9888to our people and the world
9889
98902121
989101:49:41,826 --> 01:49:45,663
9892that America is big enough
9893to admit when it’s wrong
9894
98952122
989601:49:45,746 --> 01:49:49,792
9897and confident enough
9898to learn from its mistakes.
9899
99002123
990101:49:49,875 --> 01:49:53,087
9902Releasing this report is
9903an important step toward
9904
99052124
990601:49:53,170 --> 01:49:56,507
9907restoring our values
9908and showing the world
9909
99102125
991101:49:56,590 --> 01:50:01,053
9912that we are, in fact,
9913a just and lawful society.
9914
99152126
991601:50:01,137 --> 01:50:05,516
9917There are those who will
9918seize upon the report and say,
9919
99202127
992101:50:05,599 --> 01:50:08,311
9922"See what the Americans did?"
9923
99242128
992501:50:08,394 --> 01:50:10,021
9926And they will try to use it
9927
99282129
992901:50:10,104 --> 01:50:13,733
9930to justify evil actions
9931or to incite more violence.
9932
99332130
993401:50:13,816 --> 01:50:17,361
9935We cannot prevent that.
9936
99372131
993801:50:17,445 --> 01:50:19,363
9939But history will judge us
9940
99412132
994201:50:19,447 --> 01:50:24,118
9943by our commitment to
9944a just society governed by law
9945
99462133
994701:50:24,201 --> 01:50:27,455
9948and the willingness
9949to face an ugly truth
9950
99512134
995201:50:27,538 --> 01:50:31,125
9953and say "never again."
9954
99552135
995601:50:31,208 --> 01:50:32,626
9957Thank you.
9958
99592136
996001:50:32,710 --> 01:50:36,589
9961I now yield the floor
9962to the senator from Arizona.
9963
99642137
996501:50:38,424 --> 01:50:40,634
9966JOHN McCAIN:
9967What might come as a surprise
9968
99692138
997001:50:40,718 --> 01:50:44,180
9971is how little these practices
9972did to aid our efforts to bring
9973
99742139
997501:50:44,263 --> 01:50:47,391
99769/11 culprits to justice
9977and to find and prevent
9978
99792140
998001:50:47,475 --> 01:50:50,227
9981terrorist attacks
9982today and tomorrow.
9983
99842141
998501:50:50,311 --> 01:50:52,063
9986That could be a real surprise,
9987
99882142
998901:50:52,146 --> 01:50:54,732
9990since it contradicts
9991the many assurances
9992
99932143
999401:50:54,815 --> 01:50:57,026
9995provided by
9996intelligence officials,
9997
99982144
999901:50:57,109 --> 01:50:59,070
10000on the record and in private,
10001
100022145
1000301:50:59,153 --> 01:51:02,865
10004that enhanced interrogation
10005techniques were indispensable
10006
100072146
1000801:51:02,948 --> 01:51:04,867
10009in the war against terrorism.
10010
100112147
1001201:51:04,950 --> 01:51:08,371
10013I think it’s an insult to
10014the many intelligence officers
10015
100162148
1001701:51:08,454 --> 01:51:10,373
10018who have acquired
10019good intelligence
10020
100212149
1002201:51:10,456 --> 01:51:12,541
10023without hurting
10024or degrading prisoners
10025
100262150
1002701:51:12,625 --> 01:51:16,462
10028to assert we can’t win this war
10029without such methods.
10030
100312151
1003201:51:16,545 --> 01:51:19,548
10033Yes, we can, and we will.
10034
100352152
1003601:51:19,632 --> 01:51:21,759
10037But in the end,
10038
100392153
1004001:51:21,842 --> 01:51:24,428
10041torture’s failure to serve
10042its intended purpose
10043
100442154
1004501:51:24,512 --> 01:51:27,807
10046isn’t the main reason
10047to oppose its use.
10048
100492155
1005001:51:27,890 --> 01:51:32,770
10051This question isn’t about
10052our enemies; it’s about us.
10053
100542156
1005501:51:32,853 --> 01:51:38,192
10056It’s about who we were, who we
10057are, and who we aspire to be.
10058
100592157
1006001:51:38,275 --> 01:51:42,279
10061It’s about how we represent
10062ourselves to the world.
10063
100642158
1006501:51:42,363 --> 01:51:45,157
10066Our enemies act
10067without conscience.
10068
100692159
1007001:51:45,241 --> 01:51:47,201
10071We must not.
10072
100732160
1007401:51:49,578 --> 01:51:51,664
10075Senator Dianne Feinstein today
10076
100772161
1007801:51:51,747 --> 01:51:54,500
10079exposed the CIA’s now extinct
10080
100812162
1008201:51:54,583 --> 01:51:56,919
10083enhanced interrogation
10084techniques.
10085
100862163
1008701:51:57,002 --> 01:51:58,587
10088The thing that strikes me about
10089
100902164
1009101:51:58,671 --> 01:52:00,047
10092what the Senate
10093was doing today...
10094
100952165
1009601:52:00,131 --> 01:52:02,007
10097Dianne Feinstein,
10098Jay Rockefeller...
10099
101002166
1010101:52:02,091 --> 01:52:03,843
10102is they were doing
10103everything they can
10104
101052167
1010601:52:03,926 --> 01:52:06,554
10107to make sure
10108this doesn’t happen again.
10109
101102168
1011101:52:06,637 --> 01:52:08,722
10112Because by going public
10113like this...
10114
101152169
1011601:52:08,806 --> 01:52:10,891
10117Dan.
10118
101192170
1012001:52:10,975 --> 01:52:12,476
10121You did well.
10122
101232171
1012401:52:12,560 --> 01:52:14,311
10125Thank you.
10126
101272172
1012801:52:15,020 --> 01:52:16,689
10129Thank you.
10130
101312173
1013201:52:16,772 --> 01:52:20,484
10133"We’re gonna be on you
10134if you try to do this."
10135
101362174
1013701:53:52,475 --> 01:53:57,475
10138Subtitles by explosiveskull
10139www.OpenSubtitles.org
10140
101412175
1014201:56:07,795 --> 01:56:11,048
10143♪ If pain was a color
10144to paint on you ♪
10145
101462176
1014701:56:11,131 --> 01:56:14,093
10148♪ Your heart would be
10149the color blue ♪
10150
101512177
1015201:56:14,176 --> 01:56:18,055
10153♪ Be a gradient from there
10154until your body met your hair ♪
10155
101562178
1015701:56:18,138 --> 01:56:19,682
10158♪ Which remained a silver ♪
10159
101602179
1016101:56:19,765 --> 01:56:22,893
10162♪ You are the one
10163they call Jesus Christ ♪
10164
101652180
1016601:56:22,976 --> 01:56:25,938
10167♪ Who didn’t know
10168no rock and roll ♪
10169
101702181
1017101:56:26,021 --> 01:56:29,483
10172♪ Just a mission and a gun
10173to paint rainbows in Vietnam ♪
10174
101752182
1017601:56:29,566 --> 01:56:31,402
10177♪ And a heart
10178that always told you ♪
10179
101802183
1018101:56:31,485 --> 01:56:33,904
10182♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪
10183
101842184
1018501:56:34,905 --> 01:56:38,117
10186♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪
10187
101882185
1018901:56:38,200 --> 01:56:41,870
10190♪ So who wrote the rules?
10191Who wrote the rules? ♪
10192
101932186
1019401:56:41,954 --> 01:56:43,747
10195♪ Who wrote the rules? ♪
10196
101972187
1019801:56:43,831 --> 01:56:48,001
10199♪ They said every one of you
10200will never try to lend a hand ♪
10201
102022188
1020301:56:48,085 --> 01:56:51,880
10204♪ When the policemen
10205don’t understand ♪
10206
102072189
1020801:56:51,964 --> 01:56:57,177
10209♪ Boys, all you boys,
10210think it’s so American ♪
10211
102122190
1021301:56:58,804 --> 01:57:04,184
10214♪ Girls, all you girls,
10215yeah, you’re so American ♪
10216
102172191
1021801:57:07,896 --> 01:57:10,816
10219♪ He may not be
10220born of this land ♪
10221
102222192
1022301:57:10,899 --> 01:57:13,902
10224♪ But he was born
10225of this world ♪
10226
102272193
1022801:57:13,986 --> 01:57:15,779
10229♪ He was born
10230of all the mothers ♪
10231
102322194
1023301:57:15,863 --> 01:57:17,489
10234♪ And the colors
10235of our brothers ♪
10236
102372195
1023801:57:17,573 --> 01:57:19,533
10239♪ And the love
10240that was started ♪
10241
102422196
1024301:57:19,616 --> 01:57:22,619
10244♪ You are the one
10245they call Jesus Christ ♪
10246
102472197
1024801:57:22,703 --> 01:57:25,748
10249♪ Who may not know
10250no rock and roll ♪
10251
102522198
1025301:57:25,831 --> 01:57:27,583
10254♪ And there may not be
10255a Heaven ♪
10256
102572199
1025801:57:27,666 --> 01:57:29,418
10259♪ Or a place
10260of which to send you ♪
10261
102622200
1026301:57:29,501 --> 01:57:30,961
10264♪ But you know in the end ♪
10265
102662201
1026701:57:31,044 --> 01:57:33,589
10268♪ There’s madness in us all ♪
10269
102702202
1027101:57:34,590 --> 01:57:36,967
10272♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪
10273
102742203
1027501:57:37,968 --> 01:57:40,262
10276♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪
10277
102782204
1027901:57:41,263 --> 01:57:44,600
10280♪ There’s a madness in us all ♪
10281
102822205
1028301:57:44,683 --> 01:57:48,312
10284♪ So who wrote the rules?
10285Who wrote the rules? ♪
10286
102872206
1028801:57:48,395 --> 01:57:50,314
10289♪ Who wrote the rules? ♪
10290
102912207
1029201:57:50,397 --> 01:57:54,568
10293♪ They said every one of you
10294will never try to lend a hand ♪
10295
102962208
1029701:57:54,651 --> 01:57:58,447
10298♪ When the policemen
10299don’t understand ♪
10300
103012209
1030201:57:58,530 --> 01:58:03,744
10303♪ Boys, all you boys,
10304think it’s so American ♪
10305
103062210
1030701:58:05,370 --> 01:58:10,751
10308♪ Girls, all you girls,
10309yeah, you’re so American ♪
10310
103112211
1031201:58:12,211 --> 01:58:14,797
10313♪ There’s two eyes
10314for every one of us ♪
10315
103162212
1031701:58:14,880 --> 01:58:18,842
10318♪ But somebody got there first
10319and took them all ♪
10320
103212213
1032201:58:18,926 --> 01:58:21,595
10323♪ There’s two eyes
10324for every one of us ♪
10325
103262214
1032701:58:21,678 --> 01:58:24,807
10328♪ But somebody got there first
10329and took them all ♪
10330
103312215
1033201:58:39,321 --> 01:58:44,368
10333♪ Man, oh, man,
10334you think it’s so American ♪
10335
103362216
1033701:58:46,078 --> 01:58:51,124
10338♪ Man, oh, man,
10339yeah, you’re so American ♪
10340
103412217
1034201:58:52,876 --> 01:58:57,840
10343♪ Man, oh, man,
10344you think it’s so American ♪
10345
103462218
1034701:58:59,550 --> 01:59:04,596
10348♪ Man, oh, man,
10349yeah, you’re so American ♪
10350
103512219
1035201:59:06,139 --> 01:59:08,517
10353♪ There’s two eyes
10354for every one of us ♪
10355
103562220
1035701:59:08,600 --> 01:59:12,563
10358♪ But somebody got there first
10359and took them all ♪
10360
103612221
1036201:59:12,646 --> 01:59:15,274
10363♪ There’s two eyes
10364for every one of us ♪
10365
103662222
1036701:59:15,357 --> 01:59:18,777
10368♪ But somebody got there first
10369and took them all. ♪