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19:47 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Other than that I'm in the middle of reading The Ego and Its Own by Max Stirner. Fascinating stuff.
29:47 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Remember that Stirner shat on Marx's writings
39:47 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I know
49:47 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And that Marx himselfw as all "Man, I thought of some dumb shit"
59:48 PM - Sleep tight pupper: You read Stirner?
69:49 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Haven't much
79:49 PM - Sleep tight pupper: So I'm guessing you just know about him fro  what other people posted?
89:50 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I like to just insult /leftypol/fags
99:50 PM - Sleep tight pupper: But /leftypol/ loves Stirner
109:50 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Edgelords and solipists too
119:51 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I think he has a good philosophy though.
129:51 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: how so?
139:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Well he makes a good point that sacrificing the ego to the fixed idea (spooks) intereferes with our own-ness. Another thing he's right on is that these fixed ideas have no basis in reality, we only make them out to be. If ideas exist, they should server people, people shouldn't serve ideas.
149:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And do you follow any sort of political ideology?
159:56 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I'm an egoist anarchist, I take after Stirner's philosophy. Also, that whole "anarcho-nihilism" /leftypol/ has is just a meme, there's no such thing. The closest thing to a political ideology I have is a union of egoists, where people will come together of their own free will and co-operate for their own mutual interest and benefit.
169:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what is this anarcho-nihilism that /leftypol/ alleges to be a thing?
179:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I don't /pol/'s idea of muh tradition and muh natsoc society because it requires the sacrifice of the will to appease an idea.
189:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Basically it's just nihilism. I guess they added the anarcho part because anarchism is leftist.
199:58 PM - Sleep tight pupper: there's different kinds of nihilism tho
2010:01 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: The concept of a spook is nothing more than a self-made excuse to assert one's disacknowledgement disagreed or disatisfying notions, circumstances, etc. as the superceding thing
2110:01 PM - Sleep tight pupper: how so?
2210:02 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: A man who keeps a poster of Stirner in his bedroom could come to a territory uninvited and unwanted, with nothing but the intent of squatting there, and insisting tha tthe concept of land and ownership of such land is a spook, which has no real reason to exist
2310:03 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Or that because "land" has no way for said man to tangibly interact with, it is therefore not real, and he is fully within his personal rights to squat on said territory
2410:04 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I dunno if Stirner believed in might makes right or memes, since both are the only way that he could've successfully asserted what was a part of reality, and what was nothing more than a socially or mentally enforced spook.
2510:04 PM - Sleep tight pupper: A spook is a fixed idea that people sacrifice their minds to, it thus clouds their judgement and freedom by keeping them constrained within the confines of the framework of that spook, by recognizing that it is a spook you can free yourself mentally by realizing you don't have a any real obligation to it, but to say the conequences of that spook go away is not valid, because other people still constrained by that spook may believe in it and can use it to oppress you.
2610:08 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It's the equivalent of someone playing Monopoly, and drawing his own philisophical "Get out of Jail" cards
2710:08 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Take rights for example, "rights" don't exist, they have no basis in reality, they're just believed in by people. People assert rights, it's their foundation and they assume that foundation to xist, because it's their right. a circular form of reasoning. Rights create invisible restrictions. A right implies a restriction, and that "right" is an exemption granted upon that restriction of freedom. For example, in the USA we have the right of free speech, but in reality, we already have the freedom to say whatever we want.  We don't need a law or authority to tell us what we can or can't do, they just trick the populace into believing that they are the ones who can decide an objective basis on what people can or can't do. Again, rights create invisible restrictions,
2810:11 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: tl;dr Might Makes Right
2910:12 PM - Sleep tight pupper: People assert the constitution saying that it justifies their right to free speech. In reality you don't need the constitution or anything to tell you what you can or can't do, it all depends on your own ego, by despooking yourself you can realize they have no basis in objective reality and thus decide not to limit yourself, in short spooks are a sort of brainwashing, by being unbrainwashed you can make clearer choices. However that doesn't make you magically immune to the consequences such as cops coming after you. All that's meant to do is make you realize that spooks are nonexistant constraints, but its not an indicator of what you should or shouldnt do
3010:12 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Not necessarily
3110:12 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Yes, necessarily.
3210:12 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because its not implying you should just go out and do antisocial thingsm, just whats in your best interest.
3310:13 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: There's no way to assert a spook's being a spook aside from forcing others to recognize it as such.
3410:13 PM - Sleep tight pupper: unless they come to the conclusion on their own
3510:13 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And if you are not willing to use force, then you are no better than a passive aggressive "free inhabitant"
3610:14 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Additionally this bears similarity to the more modern "X is a social construct", albeit in /leftypol/'s flavor of it,
3710:14 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: since they're often trying to remain in the closet about being total SJWs
3810:14 PM - Sleep tight pupper: social constructs aren't fixed ideas, fixed ideas require the person to sacrifice their ego in subserviance to the uidea rather than their own will
3910:15 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I've been to /leftypol/ these people don't look like SJWs to me.
4010:15 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And the reason why they aren't is because being a SJW isn't as fashionable now and will be less so in the future than before
4110:16 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: They're the sort of people who've supported Black Lives Matter of all things, just because it hurts Whitey in some way and their rioting hurts businesses, even if it's local ones
4210:17 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Hell, one guy recently debated with Internet Aristocrat
4310:17 PM - Sleep tight pupper: What? The threads I've seen were some commentary about how BLM are IDpol
4410:17 PM - Sleep tight pupper: That guy was a shitposter
4510:17 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: /leftypol/ disowned the guy, but only because he was so clumsy and awkward
4610:17 PM - Sleep tight pupper: He wasn't popular to begin with
4710:17 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: /leftypol/ is hypocritical with IDpol though
4810:17 PM - Sleep tight pupper: How?
4910:18 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: In fact, your apparent status as a leftist matters to them even more than what you could have to say
5010:19 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I think that's only because the only opposition that comes there is ayncraps or NEETsocs.
5110:20 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Besides they hate tankies and socdems
5210:21 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: There's no difference between "social democracy" and socialism
5310:22 PM - Sleep tight pupper: You're joking right? Social democracy work on the keynesian school of economics to curb capitalism's faults by restributing wealth back into the lower classes, socialism actually has the workers own the means of production.
5410:22 PM - Sleep tight pupper: No, it's not the same thing.
5510:23 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I think you mean "Communism".
5610:23 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Then again, Socialism itself is a facelifted version of Communism
5710:23 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And Social Democracy is just a lazier facelifted version of Socialism itself.
5810:23 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Socialism is the transition stage, communism is the stateless, global, worker commune
5910:23 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I think you're confused
6010:23 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Additionally "Workers own the means of production" itself is a dumb meme
6110:24 PM - Sleep tight pupper: how?
6210:24 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It's another part of the big leftist "no X, no Y, Final Destination" sort of economical theorizing and larping
6310:24 PM - Sleep tight pupper: what
6410:25 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: By card-carrying commies, trustafarians, and champagne socialists
6510:25 PM - Sleep tight pupper: http://i.imgur.com/4iDiNxX.jpg
6610:25 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Who have no intention to even be a worker
6710:25 PM - Sleep tight pupper: We had a worker thread a week back, everyone there had a job
6810:25 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Including me
6910:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: larping:check
7010:26 PM - Sleep tight pupper: how is it larping?
7110:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: How is it not?
7210:27 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Don't ask for negative proof, you made the acusation so it's on you to prove it.
7310:27 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: My obligation to prove this thing in particular is a spook
7410:28 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Nice cop-out and misrepresentation
7510:28 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: This entire conversation is nothing but symbols that humans have used memetics to establish, and thus exists outside of reality and is not tangible
7610:28 PM - Sleep tight pupper: That's not what a fixed idea is.
7710:29 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Look if you don;t want to admit you're wrong that's fine but don't jump around on it.
7810:29 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: At any rate, when did you become quite the Bolshevik-riding tool?
7910:29 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Are you high? I'm not a bolshevik
8010:30 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Fag.
8110:30 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Oh, but it sounds like you'd want to be one
8210:30 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: you'd love to be a card-carrying NEET
8310:30 PM - Sleep tight pupper: >leftism is one ideology
8410:30 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You're right
8510:30 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It's a varied verse of donut steel ideologies
8610:30 PM - Sleep tight pupper: This is why no one sane goes to /pol/
8710:31 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Why don't you tell me about your global worldwide ancient jewish conspiracy while you're at it huh?
8810:31 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Anyways, all this "workers own the means of production" has no point other than the tautology that the only functional and successful economy is one where a fast food burgerflipper is the one who has the right to the burgers he flips
8910:32 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: As opposed to those who hire him for the purpose of flipping said burgers
9010:32 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because the capitalist class takes away the surplus labor he produces by paying him less than the sum total or his labor
9110:32 PM - Sleep tight pupper: *of
9210:33 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what is the truest authority that determines what is and isn't the sum total of his labor?
9310:34 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Certainly not the burgerflipper himself, as he agreed to be paid his given wage
9410:34 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Additionally this burgerflipper/manager/franchise owner/whatever relationship is also an agreed upon one
9510:34 PM - Sleep tight pupper: The fact that his work is being exploited by the ones who take it away because they need to pay him less than his work so that the capitalist can make a profit, if they paid in proportion to his work they couldn;t make a profit.
9610:35 PM - Sleep tight pupper: His agreement was made under duress and therefore isn't valid. The capitalist class unfairly controls his obligation to either work for less than he's worth or starve to death.
9710:36 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: If they are unable to make any profit, the turbulence of the economy would cause the restaurant to fail, and thus nobody would be making any money whatsoever, thus limiting the burgerflipper's ability and options to put bread on the table
9810:36 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: restaurants in general are a risky and very competitive business, after all.
9910:37 PM - Sleep tight pupper: That only happens in a capitalist economy because that's how its sturctured, in socialism they make their money in proportion to their work, the more they work the more they get paid.
10010:37 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what assertion or authority is there that asserts that his work is being exploited to begin with?
10110:37 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because they aren;t being burdened by having any labor stolen
10210:37 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Or that he is not receiving the correct amount of pay?
10310:39 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because as the capitalist owns the means of production they take the most amount of the laborer's lebor by producing products that cost more to make than what the laborer is paid, if this wasnt tue the capitalist wouldnt make a profit. By having the means collectively owned, the amount given to be paid is proportional to the work invested in the labor you produce.
10410:39 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And who is to determine the proportions?
10510:39 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what is to make sure that said determinations are correct?
10610:39 PM - Sleep tight pupper: the workers
10710:39 PM - Sleep tight pupper: workplace democracy
10810:39 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: What guarantees that the workers themselves are correct in their proportional decisions?
10910:40 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: After all, what if the workers determine that the burgerflipper should make more more than the carpenter?
11010:40 PM - Sleep tight pupper: those are two seperate business owned by two seperate gropus
11110:41 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: In that case, who makes sure that enough wealth goes into each group so that the workers are able to determine proportional pay?
11210:41 PM - Sleep tight pupper: That's decided by the workers themselves
11310:42 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what's stopping the workers from going full handrubber about their prices and payments?
11410:42 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And furthermore, what's stopping another group from appearing to compete with the first?
11510:43 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Democracy is a will of force, after all, and when opting out of a democracy occurs, said opting out is often stronger than the opting in
11610:44 PM - Sleep tight pupper: The workers have to keep their prices low to comepete with other businesses because their manpower will also be proportional to the population in which to sell things, and by that their human capital will also go up given how much can be producedm this gives incenstive to hire more people which brings in more money and thus that money can also be paid to the workers as agreed upon
11710:44 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Some workers could be disssatisfied with the amount of payment, whether it be too high or too low, and thus form a different group of workers for the sake of establishing their ideal payments and prices
11810:45 PM - Sleep tight pupper: It's a gbetter system than one where a single individual exploits the labor of workers by oferring a job for shitty pay or the worker is forced to starve
11910:45 PM - Sleep tight pupper: or go on welfare
12010:46 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Why else have profits skyrocketed for corporaqtions yet have gone down for the working class for the last 20 years?
12110:46 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Probably because of Keynesians, economical turbulence, as well as people just being stupid
12210:47 PM - Sleep tight pupper: capitalism promised that the increase in production by using machinery would cause profits margins to be paid to workers to go up, but that didn;t happen, what DID happen is that the cost of living for the working class went down, and what happened then? the capitalists could afford to pay the working class less money needed to survive.
12310:47 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Also because of all your potential bemoaning of Capitalism, nothing has done more damage to the economy than people who are so dedicated to subverting it
12410:47 PM - Sleep tight pupper: And no this is not all on muh welfare
12510:47 PM - Sleep tight pupper: capitalism has done a good job of subverting itself
12610:49 PM - Sleep tight pupper: with the rise of machinery for production is going up, what do you think is going to happen? more unemployment, standard of living going down meaning less wages. Soon it will hit the point where you will be getting enough money (if you're lucky) to live somewhere and eat, granting little or no money for luxuries.
12710:49 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Whatever happened to "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need?"
12810:49 PM - Sleep tight pupper: That's communism
12910:49 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: At least we can agree that welfare is stupid
13010:49 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I think.
13110:50 PM - Sleep tight pupper: welfare is the consequence of capitalism
13210:50 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Capitalism cant employ everyone, it NEEDS unemployment to function
13310:51 PM - Sleep tight pupper: without unemployment inflation goes up to compensate for all the wealth being paid out by competing corporations and thus prices on luxury goods goes up by money being made shit. The reason welfare is there is to keep potential future laborers alive until they're needed again, and also if you take away welfare what do you think is going to happen? Will people sit idly by and starve to death? No, there will be rioting in the streets, crimerate will skyrocket
13410:52 PM - Sleep tight pupper: http://i.imgur.com/2dRkLSy.jpg
13510:52 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Very magical.
13610:52 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: So, what happened to your job or whatever?
13710:52 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I got fired
13810:52 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: That explains a lot.
13910:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: They replaced me with an immigrant
14010:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Thanks capitalism
14110:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: But I don't hate mexicans
14210:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: That's not a matter of capitalism though, what we see in practice is corporatism along with the negative aspects of leftist economical systems
14310:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: corporatism is just "capitalism when i dont like it"
14410:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And if anything, you'd still lose your job to that immigrant under both Socialism and Communism
14510:54 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Since both systems see no difference between you and the immigrant
14610:54 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Though if anything, it'll prefer that immigrant
14710:54 PM - Sleep tight pupper: There is no difference. An unregulated free market means there are no restrictions on free trade, therefore "corporatism" or "crony capitalism" is ALLOWED to happen, people just magically insist its not going to happen, but when it DOES happen, "THAT WASNT REAL CAPITALISM!!"
14810:54 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: What makes you think I want absolutely unregulated free markets?
14910:55 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I wouldnt lose my job under socialism because we both do the same labor for the same pay
15010:55 PM - Sleep tight pupper: they hired him because he worked for less
15110:56 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You'd never work the same labor for the same pay, though
15210:56 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Theres no incentive to hire an immigrant over someone local in socialism because the immigrant has to work in proportion to all the other worker's pays
15310:56 PM - Sleep tight pupper: additionally like I said more people  more pay for everyone in the company
15410:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: so it would be better to hire both
15510:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: The incentive to hire an immigrant stems from socialism's desire to also end many concepts about human beings
15610:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Nationality being one of them
15710:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: thus it would prefer to have an immigrant do the same work as you do, at your expense by firing you so that the immigrant would have a spot for employment
15810:58 PM - Sleep tight pupper: you're not giving me "socialism = affirimitive action" bullshit are you?
15910:58 PM - Sleep tight pupper: it sounds like you are
16010:58 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: spook spook spook
16110:58 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Answer the question
16210:58 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Of course.
16310:59 PM - Sleep tight pupper: It's not. Socialism is not affirmitive action. It works on the benefit of the workers as an economic system it's not some arbitrary social program.
16410:59 PM - Sleep tight pupper: If you think otherwise it's probably because you're conflating terms because you hang around /pol/ all the time and don't bother to read theory.
16511:00 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Theory, or self-referencing, self-wanking material?
16611:02 PM - Sleep tight pupper: It had a lot of good points and stands in suprior as contrast to capitalism which sacrifices the well-being of the worker for the benefit of some capitalist
16711:02 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I guess if you really love corporate cock and making some guy rich while he's fuck you over with shit pay, unpaid ogvertime, and no free time, then I guess you must love capitalism.
16811:03 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Honestly have you HAD a job before? That work is soul-crushing.
16911:04 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: If you're an idealistic NEET looking for a way to blame or compensate for your NEETness, or your very deserved firing, socialism would be your thing
17011:04 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what even was your job again?
17111:04 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Capitalism is what puts people in this situation.
17211:04 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Hopefully it's your last
17311:05 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Would you like to like in Venezuela then? Or Cuba? or Cambodia or the parts of China that are slower to exit Communism?
17411:05 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Dishwasher. Before that I've been a photgrapher's assistant, a housekeeper, a yard worker, a security guard, and a waiter
17511:06 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Those countries aren't socialist. venezuela is capitalist and those others are mixed economies
17611:06 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Anyway, have you had a job yes or no?
17711:06 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Depending on my class schedules, I may be looking for one soon
17811:06 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Currently I'm doing welding as a major
17911:07 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: which includes handling other tools too
18011:07 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Also certified for some stuff already thanks to going to a trade school in high school
18111:07 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Well oh boy it's almost as if it's hard to nderstand how job opportunities in the system are shit if you've never actually had to sell your labor before. wow!
18211:07 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I knew you'd say something like that
18311:08 PM - Sleep tight pupper: and you never got unpaid overtime, and you never missed important events with friends and family because your fucking boss decided his production was more important than your life
18411:09 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Well, certainly I'll be enjoying the sorts of jobs my major and certifications can get me more than whatever you've gotten
18511:09 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I'm going to college right now. And if you havent noticed, college is expensive, and not everyone has these job opportunities, again employment exists by design in capitalism
18611:09 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Welding is a very in-demand thing, too, so there'll be opportunities, both big and small, frequent and gig-based
18711:10 PM - Sleep tight pupper: not everyone can afford college or trade school and thus cant move up in the world. if you think any hobo in the street can make it big just as much as some rich fuck you're delusional
18811:10 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I got my ceritifications for free
18911:10 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I went to trade school for free
19011:10 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I doubt every trade school will let anyone go for free
19111:11 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Did you become full Red before or after you got fired?
19211:12 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I wouldn't say I'm a communist. And I guess it was after I became a housekeeper, years ago.
19311:12 PM - Sleep tight pupper: even with an education you're still bound by being paid less than what you're worth
19411:13 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Given how in-demand welding is, there'll be times where I will be able to determine my own payment
19511:14 PM - Sleep tight pupper: unless you're self-emloyed you're bound by the employers payment, and he won;t pay you in porportion to the labor you actually make because then he will lose profits
19611:14 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: At least we're not going full blue collar vs white collar IDpol
19711:16 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Again, what determines the labor "I actually make"?
19811:16 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I'm going to school to be a doc. Even with the amount of money that earns, it still is paying me less than my worth to give the most proportion of my labor to the one that runs the hospital and doesn't work, and because unemployment is the check in because unemployment exists by design in capitalism, for every one doctor that is employed, there will be another who isn't.
19911:17 PM - Sleep tight pupper: The products you make, or in this case, the resources you use to make your service.
20011:17 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It's probably a moot point to ask you if you believe that manager/administrative jobs are inherently evil
20111:18 PM - Sleep tight pupper: They don't do any work. They're just there to take my labor and profit off it by paying me less than how much I work.
20211:19 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: They have to make sure the place functions
20311:19 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Yeah, by counting how much money to rip me off so they can stay afloat.
20411:19 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: They may not operate the means of production, but they certainly own it and provide those who don't employment to make money from
20511:20 PM - Sleep tight pupper: The workers who actually do the work can decide better how the place should be run rather than sa single individual who doesn't even do any work.
20611:20 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: So with your ideology in mind, why not go for a freelancer/your own boss sort of career
20711:20 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And on what basis?
20811:20 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: A janitor could always say that he should make trillions
20911:21 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And that his work should be granting him trillions
21011:21 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: trillions per milisecond too, even
21111:22 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And in the event that your labor doesn't make much money whatsoever, you're still fucked, no matter how much you demand that your own labor earns you
21211:22 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: If nobody's willing to even pay you directly for whatever job you want to do
21311:22 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because not everyone has that option. For starter you need starting capital to start a business, why else did people hate the fuck out of Gary Johnson for suggesting poor people can stop being poor by "starting their own business"? Again, it requires starting money, and if your business doesn't make it, because it has to compete with businesses that already have mass production and a bigger workforce, your business is more likely to go under and with the business shut down you are in a worse state than when you started because all that money you started for your business is gone
21411:23 PM - Sleep tight pupper: thats why workplace democracy works better because they have a more open ended system or pay rather than being decided by a single individual
21511:23 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I'm not saying socialism is a magic utopia where all your hopes and dreams come true, I'm just saying it's better than capitalism
21611:23 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Why wouldn't you say it is a magic utopia?
21711:23 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You have no reason not to
21811:24 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: As for this socialism/communism/other leftist bullshit
21911:24 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: that shit resulted in fucking death, starvation, etc. of people who I have connections to
22011:24 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because this isn't a perfect world where nobody ever hates eachother and you can get everything by pressing a button
22111:24 PM - Sleep tight pupper: it's not a perfect world, but a step in the right direction
22211:25 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Let me make it clear that I would myself become inclined to fucking murder before I allow a leftist try to introduce his overly idealistic(with token statements so they can say "I'm not calling it a utopa") bullshit
22311:25 PM - Sleep tight pupper: This isn't /pol/ where people worship a figure in spite of everything they've done like Hitler, we like certain characteristics of the systems, but not the leaders or their certain decisions
22411:25 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: This bullshit resulted in goddamend genocide, and you fucking know it
22511:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: If anything, you're just another tankie.
22611:26 PM - Sleep tight pupper: it wasnt socialism, it was the leaders
22711:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: "The leaders"
22811:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: A useless excuse
22911:26 PM - Sleep tight pupper: theres no tenet of socialism that states "murder a bunch of people"
23011:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Oh, but it leads to it very much so
23111:26 PM - Sleep tight pupper: No actually if you read history, its moreover the leaders who get everyone killed
23211:26 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Hell, I'd rather deal with the goddamned Allahu Akbars than you
23311:26 PM - Sleep tight pupper: why else do you think anti-statism is a thing?
23411:27 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Get lost, I'm for a murder-free socialist system
23511:27 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You're going to need force to establish, maintain, and proect that system
23611:27 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: That includes the capacity and ability to murder for it
23711:27 PM - Sleep tight pupper: like capitalism doesnt?
23811:27 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: "But Capitalism-"
23911:27 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: So long as living organisms exist, so will death
24011:28 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Death by starvation, death by disease, old age, and killing.
24111:28 PM - Sleep tight pupper: because homeless people dying and crime rates of murder over resources isnt happening because everyone has an equal opportuinity under capitalism, right?
24211:29 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You think Capitalism invented resource-based competition?
24311:29 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It'll exist so long as resources remain finite
24411:29 PM - Sleep tight pupper: No shit. Humans got along in communes for over 300,000 years, capitalism, which evolved out of feudalism, has only been around for 300.
24511:29 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Even if we go into fucking space, there'll come a point where life and resources will simply cease.
24611:30 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Socialism is about equal access of opportunity, not outcome.
24711:30 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Giving everyone a chance, not just the rich fucks or middle class, but also those homeless and "duhgenewetts" as /pol/ calls them, in the streets
24811:31 PM - Sleep tight pupper: >Even if we go into fucking space, there'll come a point where life and resources will simply cease.
249The hell is this kind of defeatism? One day this will all be for nothing so we shouldnt bother helping anyone now at all?
25011:31 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It's not defeatism
25111:32 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: It's the eventual entropy of the universe
25211:32 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: The point is that competition, and thus death will exist so long as a large enough number of living things exist within proximity of each other
25311:33 PM - Sleep tight pupper: By that logic, whats stopping you from killing yourself now? your life won;t make a difference, you're going to die someday anyway, why bother?
25411:33 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I'll kill you first.
25511:33 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Not without a gun you won't
25611:33 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I could always go kill every fucking leftist before I go.
25711:33 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Every one I can
25811:34 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And honestly, the only reason to let them live is for the sake of profound schadenfreude
25911:34 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Due to circumstance you're going to have to force me to like something like socialism
26011:34 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I don't see why you're so intent on hating on one of the last few kinds of people who genuinely want to help make a difference in the world. Instead you decided to hang around a bunch of neonazi edgelord faggots who want a race war and fap to MLP yet call other people degenerate, because it totally doesnt apply to you if you assert it doesnt right?
26111:35 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You think I like the Nazis instead?
26211:35 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I may be a conservative, but I am far more anti-left than I am pro-right
26311:36 PM - Sleep tight pupper: There's nothing to do on /pol/ except complain about jews or black people, and if you disagree you're obviously a JIDF shill MODS MODS MODS WE'RE EBING RAIDED
26411:36 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: In fact, I only have the token amount of conservatism required so that I could ever be anti-left
26511:36 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And what are you, some sort of nigger or hapa yourself?
26611:36 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I'm white.
26711:36 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You wear the skin poorly.
26811:37 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Why should I have to fit within your arbitrary framework of what a white person is supposed to be like? I'm  my own person.
26911:37 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You don't deserve to be.
27011:37 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I'd rather you exist fully under my will
27111:37 PM - Sleep tight pupper: And thats why righitism is a slave mentality, doomed to barking at others for what they should be like, rejecting individuality for a herd mentality
27211:38 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And my will dictates that you either abandon this line of thinking, or die.
27311:38 PM - Sleep tight pupper: well then you're a faggot.
27411:38 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And your collectivism does not?
27511:38 PM - Sleep tight pupper: It pays people how much they're worth, they have more money to do the things they want to.
27611:38 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You put on airs of being a helper, a liberator, the "Good guy"
27711:39 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: That is just another lie, another excuse of verbal noise
27811:39 PM - Sleep tight pupper: So you would rather the amount someone is paid which determines how they can live should be set upon a single person, the employer? and THAT'S supposed to help them?
27911:39 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: While many things lead to death and poverty, so will that, and especially that
28011:39 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Because corporations are such loving people?
28111:40 PM - Sleep tight pupper: My view is set within others, who would honestly not want to be paid more?
28211:40 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Take off your goddamned mask, you pinko
28311:41 PM - Sleep tight pupper: As I said, I'm not a communist. Communism is global stateless and doesn't have currency. But if such a world existed where everyone worked and had as much free time to do what they wanted it would be a superior system to socialism then, and if that world happened, why go back to capitalism?
28411:41 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You might as well be one.
28511:41 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Socialism, as I've said, is just a facelifted version of Communism.
28611:42 PM - Sleep tight pupper: It's a transitory period, but not all system go to communism.
28711:42 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Fortunately, not all of them
28811:42 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Unfortunately, as least one has, and at least one will.
28911:43 PM - Sleep tight pupper: There hasn;t been communism. And if you honestly think "communism in one state" is anything other than a meme you obviously haven't read Marx.
29011:43 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And everything you believe isn't a meme itself?
29111:43 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: A big forced meme at that?
29211:44 PM - Sleep tight pupper: >everything I dont like is a meme
293Yeah nice reasoning
29411:44 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: My family has had to deal with war and the aftermath of said war, and my people have had to deal with genocide, that this ideology that you now follow caused
29511:45 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: By all means, I deserve at least to call it a shitty forced meme.
29611:45 PM - Sleep tight pupper: It's not the ideology itself, it's because you let some shitty leader decide what to do for you.
29711:45 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And you should at least acknowledge the force you'll need to establish anything you want
29811:45 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: "some shitty leader"
29911:45 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: A leader can lead, but each leader did not rack up death tolls all by themselves
30011:46 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: they may have fired some bullets, stabbed some people, but others did the same
30111:46 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Many others.
30211:46 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And many will, for many reasons.
30311:46 PM - Sleep tight pupper: capitalism exerted itself as the dominating force, just because you live comfortably doesn't mean there hasn;t been genocide in this system. And now we have several wars in the middle east for resources, and american capitalism itself has had a long history of crushing autonomous communities who seeked to establish their own systems.
30411:46 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Whatever happebned to whole "will of the people" thing?
30511:47 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: But it'd be less disgusting to listen to the motivations of a petty criminal than a criminal with a Red banner
30611:47 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Could it be the people aren;t truly free? that corporations and government dictate what we can do? nooooo that can't be right! after all we have a piece of paper that gurantees our "rights"
30711:47 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: The only people who are free are hermits.
30811:47 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: In the sense that you speak.
30911:48 PM - Sleep tight pupper: this system exploits people, it doesn;t help them.
31011:48 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And those who live within your rotten mind's dreams
31111:50 PM - Sleep tight pupper: The goal of socialism is bring about a fairer system, if an outside force such as an individual intereferes with that system then its the fault of the indivudal, not the syatem. If I write a book on how to build a computer, and you take that book and use it to justify killing someone, that doesn't make it the ideology of the book's fault, it's the person's.
31211:51 PM - Sleep tight pupper: And another thing, why isn't the supposed "deaths created by ideology" only attributed by /pol/ to the left? Why don't they say national socialism resulted in the deatsh of 6 million jews and 22 million russians? (inb4 "holocause never happened xDDD")
31311:52 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Communism has caused multiplicatively more deaths than that.
31411:52 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: In fact, WWII and the Nazis is day care in comparison.
31511:52 PM - Sleep tight pupper: >YEAH BUT THE OTHER GUY KILLED MORE SO THAT MAKES MY SYSTEM OK
31611:52 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Except you intend to go towards the system that has killed more people.
31711:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You idiot.
31811:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Nowhere in my ideology is genocide a listed
31911:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Of course, thanks to all the leftist subversion that has occured.
32011:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Nowhere in socialism's tenets is genocide listed, as it intended to be.
32111:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: As well as this firm belief in many people that Communism and Socialism did absolutely nothing wrong.
32211:53 PM - Sleep tight pupper: So I want a socialist system with no genocide.
32311:53 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Impossible.
32411:54 PM - Sleep tight pupper: No it's not.
32511:54 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You'll have to kill me at least to achieve socialism, period.
32611:54 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: I'd rather die too before I see it.
32711:54 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Some other worker would probably put you on trial for attacking
32811:54 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: And if you see it, you'd rather die too.
32911:55 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: You understand nothing.
33011:55 PM - Sleep tight pupper: I think it more aptly applies to you.
33111:55 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Besides is the USSR the only socialist system you know of?
33211:56 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Oh, there's Cambodia under Pol Pot, Vietnam, China, Venezuela, etc.
33311:56 PM - Sleep tight pupper: http://i.imgur.com/kCrs8AJ.png here's some socialist systems that didn't go on a genocide spree
33411:56 PM - Sleep tight pupper: again your problem is statism
33511:56 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Hell, even Sweden too, which only maanged to look as pretty as it did because it's skimping on its payments to NATO while wanting America to continue being the World Police
33611:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: obn the contrary there was pinochet, hitler, mussolini who were capitalist and killed people
33711:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: capitalist systems
33811:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Bullshit image.
33911:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: No its not
34011:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Very much.
34111:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: Read some history
34211:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: go die.
34311:57 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Go fucking die.
34411:57 PM - Sleep tight pupper: socialism has worked
34511:58 PM - Sleep tight pupper: you're only butthurt because you associate genocide with some other systems that instated shitty leaders and now apply the role of shitty leadership to the system itself for which it was never intended
34611:58 PM - Sleep tight pupper: There's a reason Read a fucking book is a catchphrase on /leftypol/. You should take that advice.
34711:58 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Reading fucking wank.
34811:59 PM - Sleep tight pupper: regardless of what you think, history has shown socialism can and has existed without genocide. Don't blame socialism itself because your parents or whatever had to deal with some jerk.
34911:59 PM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: revisionist wank, self-referencing wank,
350Wednesday, September 14, 2016
35112:00 AM - Sleep tight pupper: >revisionist
352Nigger seriously?
35312:00 AM - Sleep tight pupper: You can look it up yourself then.
35412:00 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: McCarthy was right.
35512:00 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: But he didn't go far enough.
35612:00 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: McCarthyism didn't go far enough.
35712:01 AM - Sleep tight pupper: Mccarhy was an idiot. you're a fool to idolize him
35812:02 AM - Sleep tight pupper: and another thing, stop whining about "muh parents" when complaining about supposed "socialism deaths", you weren't apart of it. You sould like a nigger
35912:02 AM - Sleep tight pupper: WE WUZ SLAVEZ AN SHIET
36012:03 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Even a nigger is above you
36112:04 AM - Sleep tight pupper: Go back to /pol/ with your triggered ass. Socialism has existed in forms without genocide as in the image I provided you, period. If you wanna whine about muh revisionism you can look up the info yourself and see it's not, but obviously you won;t because you won't get over your confirmation bias.
36212:05 AM - Sleep tight pupper: I happen to have a friend in Vietnam right now who's a market socialist, he understand socialism wasn't to blame for the shitstorm, why can't you?
36312:05 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Tankie.
36412:06 AM - Sleep tight pupper: He's not a tankie
36512:05 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Tankie.
36612:06 AM - Sleep tight pupper: Do you even know what a tankie is?
36712:06 AM - NOSCOPENOPROBLEM #MAGA: Tankie.
36812:07 AM - Sleep tight pupper: Don;t worry I'll just wait until you look up google search real quick