Fs3waHVi

112:22
2Rozty
3alright
4"Sorting out the Category:Morrowind: Characters by Faction page. Removing unneeded categories and better organising the existing ones according to CS."
5is what i wrote in the topics
612:23
7DaBarkspawn
8Can someone remind me of the peculiar syntax chat uses for support/etc.?
912:23
10Rozty
11basically, i have noticed that there have been a lot of categories in morrowind that seem to have been arbitrarily created without a set rule and i want to make them adhere to the cs more
1212:23
13Atvelonis
14(+), (=), (-)
1512:23
16DaBarkspawn
17ty
18I fully support using the CS as the source of truth in all things that it covers.
19(e.g., not so applicable to lore and some other things)
20but for this, full support
2112:24
22Rozty
23for example, Category:Morrowind: Daedra Worshippers is not an actual faction in the cs and it seems like it includes people based on whether they are located in a daedric ruin or not
24Polyglot Jake has left the chat. 
2512:24
26Atvelonis
27What qualifies as a faction in the CS?
2812:25
29Rozty
30basically everything we have in the faction page in morrowind
3112:25
32DaBarkspawn
33Something that is one of the possible entries in the Faction and Rank drop down in an NPC screen.
3412:25
35Atvelonis
36Ah
37I also notice that we have categories for Daedra Worshippers (for example) in a few other games too
3812:25
39Rozty
40after DaBarkspawn worked on it i believe it is complete
4112:25
42Atvelonis
43Oblivion, Skyrim, ESO
4412:25
45Rozty
46that's weird
4712:25
48Atvelonis
49Category:Daedra Worshippers
50It seems as though the Oblivion one is from 2012, but the Skyrim and ESO ones are from 2016
5112:26
52DaBarkspawn
53Right, the stuff in the factions grid is all driven by CS data
5412:26
55Atvelonis
56Shockstorm created them to standardize, I would think
5712:26
58Rozty
59i can understand oblivion since it was more cut and dry there with the shrines, but skyrim and morrowind seem a bit much
60TheKorraFanatic has left the chat. 
6112:27
62TinyClayMan
63ESO category is probably based on in-game information (lore and dialogues)
6412:27
65DaBarkspawn
66IIRC in Oblivion, there is one person per shrine who is the quest giver, but in Morrowind and Skyrim, the quest giver is the statue.
6712:27
68Rozty
69yeah, i was looking at that now too, and that seems to be the case
7012:27
71Atvelonis
72Perhaps it would be appropriate to keep Oblivion then, but remove the others
73Because the others seem a bit arbitrary
7412:28
75TinyClayMan
76Agree
7712:28
78DaBarkspawn
79Agree
8012:28
81Atvelonis
82MW/SK/ON were all created probably to be in sync with Oblivion when in reality Oblivion happens to be a special case
83TheKorraFanatic has joined the chat. 
8412:28
85Rozty
86it seems so
8712:28
88TinyClayMan
89What about other faction categories for Morrowind, Rozty?
9012:28
91DaBarkspawn
92Yes, the other two games are good.  :P  :P  :P
9312:29
94Rozty
95well, i can go through them now and see what one is good and what one isn't, but it all falls down to if they are in the CS or not
9612:29
97Atvelonis
98Most of them are in the CS?
99Or will we be doing a lot of cat-culling here?
100so to speak
10112:30
102Rozty
103Factions  (Morrowind) here, the factions in the game
104Quentum has left the chat. 
105Masidillia has joined the chat. 
10612:30
107Rozty
108ok, that showed up weird but the link still works so whatever
10912:30
110TinyClayMan
111Was that page checked?
11212:30
113Atvelonis
114What would we do for "Morrowind: Ahemmusa Tribe Members"?
115They're Ashlanders but seem to have their own little group
116I can't remember anything about Morrowind's factions
11712:31
118Rozty
119the tribe members should all be merged into ashlander members from what i see
12012:31
121DaBarkspawn
122They are not a faction
123exactly what Rozty says
124they are Ashlanders
12512:31
126Rozty
127great houses stay the same
128as well as guilds
12912:31
130Nekyn Alb
131Having categories for the different Tribe Members could be neat though
13212:32
133DaBarkspawn
134The game doesn't distinguish mechanically between Ahemmusa and Zainab members
135they are all Ashlanders and use Ashlander ranks
13612:32
137Rozty
138ordinators are not a faction but a class, also
139Masidillia has left the chat. 
14012:32
141DaBarkspawn
142Temple Faction
14312:33
144Atvelonis
145Alright
146Any other questions pertaining to this topic?
14712:34
148Rozty
149i guess different categories for ashlander tribes would be good? i don't really have an opinion over this
15012:34
151Atvelonis
152Maybe as subcategories of Morrowind: Ashlanders
15312:34
154DaBarkspawn
155subcat wfm
15612:34
157Rozty
158they are easy to categorise even if the game doesn't distinguish them
159yeah
16012:34
161DaBarkspawn
162does that imply ordinators are a subcat of Temple?
163TheKorraFanatic has left the chat. 
16412:35
165Rozty
166so would we be putting both the ashlander and tribe category be the case for that or just the trive
167tribe*
168uhh hold on, i'll chekc
16912:35
170Atvelonis
171Just the tribe. Ashlander would be overarching
172But in Morrowind: Characters by Faction, only Morrowind: Ashlanders would be listed as an immediate subcategory
17312:36
174Rozty
175https://gyazo.com/57c6f9ffea76254528bc6c8f873afeb1
176no, it doesn't, it seems there are ordinators that are not in the temple faction, which is weird but eh
17712:36
178DaBarkspawn
179Beth being inconsistent as usual
18012:36
181Rozty
182yes
18312:37
184DaBarkspawn
185_They are consistently inconsistent_
18612:37
187Atvelonis
188Ok. So to summarize, the proposal is to remove categories in Category:Morrowind: Characters by Faction which are not backed up by the game's Construction Set, adding any appropriate subcategories to large faction categories, if necessary. The proposal also includes a clause to remove the "Daedra Worshippers" category for Morrowind, Skyrim, and Online, but not Oblivion.
189Good?
190 (+)
19112:37
192Rozty
193 (+)
194vote people
19512:38
196Atvelonis
197Ah I miss Crusader and his magic ping
19812:38
199DaBarkspawn
200 (+)
20112:38
202Rozty
203wait, i think i can recall the magic png
20412:38
205Atvelonis
206@bronkiin @renz @poisoned apples @nekyn @tinyclayman
20712:38
208Poisoned apples
209 (+)
21012:38
211DaBarkspawn
212are you sure it isn't a magic jpg?
21312:38
214Atvelonis
215heh
2164-0-0
21712:38
218TinyClayMan
219 (+)
22012:38
221Rozty
222 (thinking) could be
22312:38
224Atvelonis
2255-0-0
22612:39
227Nekyn Alb
228 (+)
22912:39
230Rozty
231[[Atvelonis
232
233Bronkiin
234Away
235
236DaBarkspawn
237Away
238
239KINMUNE
240
241Nekyn Alb
242Away
243
244Poisoned apples
245
246RenzXVI
247Away
248
249TinyClayMan
250Away | ]]
251did it work
252heck
253i could've sworn it's like this
25412:39
255Atvelonis
256It was something like that
2576-0-0
25812:40
259Rozty
260well, anyway it seems to have passed so i'll be moving on to my next topic
261"Organising all museum items (ex. Uzdabikh's Helm (Item)) from Online into one page, similar with Stolen Items and quest items."
26212:40
263DaBarkspawn
264I'll hang out, but all of the rest of the topics are Online, which I have no experience with and thus no legit opinion on
26512:41
266Rozty
267it's ok, i have examples
26812:41
269TinyClayMan
270Oh
271Instant  (+)
27212:41
273Atvelonis
274 (+)
27512:41
276TinyClayMan
277But wait
27812:41
279Rozty
280ok that didn't take long
28112:41
282Atvelonis
283no concerns from me
28412:41
285TinyClayMan
286Are there any pages on them?
28712:41
288Nekyn Alb
289 (+)
29012:41
291TinyClayMan
292Last time I checked there weren't
29312:41
294Atvelonis
295There are apparently some now
29612:41
297DaBarkspawn
298Consider me  (=) on everything online
29912:41
300Rozty
301yes, dagonator has been creating some and they look really lacking
30212:41
303TinyClayMan
304Ah
30512:42
306Rozty
307they aren't stubs either so i guess there isn't anythying else to add
308big lists would be way better in those cases
30912:42
310Atvelonis
311Ikabite originally just created the book pages and left the items as redlinks, iirc
3122015ish
31312:42
314Rozty
315and since he has uploaded images i don't think it would hurt to include them as well
31612:43
317Atvelonis
318Agreed. Wouldn't want to delete those, they're good
319What would the page be called?
32012:43
321Rozty
322museum items?
32312:43
324TinyClayMan
325No
32612:43
327Rozty
328*w h y*
32912:43
330TinyClayMan
331That is a category for items
33212:43
333Rozty
334heck
33512:43
336TinyClayMan
337There are other museum items too
33812:44
339Rozty
340since when and why isn't it used
34112:44
342Atvelonis
343Museum Artifacts maybe?
34412:44
345TinyClayMan
346My suggestion for the name is "House of Orsimer Glories Museum Items"
347Or something like that
34812:45
349Rozty
350but this isn't the only musuem in the game right
35112:45
352Atvelonis
353There are a few museums yes
35412:45
355Rozty
356isn't there one in vvardenfell as well
35712:45
358Atvelonis
359There's one in Thieves Guild I think
36012:45
361TinyClayMan
362*Other example for museum items, iirc, are that automaton parts*
363MrRiddle0 has joined the chat. 
36412:45
365KINMUNE
366Hello there, MrRiddle0!
36712:45
368Atvelonis
369Hi
37012:45
371Rozty
372*aka those things that have been taking away my inventory space since forever*
37312:46
374Atvelonis
375I think it would be fine to group them all together then?
376Museum Items or Museum Artifacts
377With H2s for each museum
37812:46
379Rozty
380yes, i don't think there would be too many of them to need mutiple pages
38112:46
382Atvelonis
383==House of Orsimer Glories==
384==whatever the one in Vvardenfell is called==
385etc.
38612:46
387Rozty
388yeah
38912:46
390Atvelonis
391With tables under each
392Is that good Tiny? I'm not clear if there are unrelated items called museum items as well (or something)
39312:47
394TinyClayMan
395I have another idea for that
396Similar to Quest Items  (Online)
39712:48
398Rozty
399lel
40012:48
401MrRiddle0
402House of Orsimer glories artifacts?
40312:48
404Rozty
405so museum items  (online) ?
40612:48
407Atvelonis
408Oh, with subpages
409Like Quest Items (Online)/Mages Guild Quest Items
410hmmm
41112:48
412Rozty
413oh
41412:48
415Atvelonis
416I don't know. Maybeeee... but how many museums are there?
41712:49
418Rozty
419wait, how many items per museum are there
42012:49
421Atvelonis
422Guessing ~20
42312:49
424MrRiddle0
425There are around 15 in Orsinium
42612:49
427TinyClayMan
4281) That automaton
4292) House of Orsimer Glories
4303) Stolen Items in TG
431Those are probably all
43212:50
433Rozty
434that's a good amount, would we really be needing subpages for all of those?
435although the stolen items are a lot iirc
43612:50
437TinyClayMan
438Nonono
439Certain stolen items
44012:50
441Atvelonis
442https://i.gyazo.com/c8ff1da31f950ebf743ffa3204a932c6.png
44312:50
444Rozty
445yeah, i remember
44612:50
447Atvelonis
448Museum icon right?
449How do we check how many of these there are
45012:50
451MrRiddle0
452Actually there are 20
45312:50
454TinyClayMan
455/What's that icon?
45612:51
457Rozty
458oof, i don't remember, i think it's used for other stuff as well
45912:51
460TinyClayMan
461>How do we check how many of these there are
462Museums or items?
46312:51
464Atvelonis
465The House of Orsimer Glories has it
466Not sure if it's unique to museums actually
46712:52
468Rozty
469i don't think it is
470i think i've seen it other times as well
47112:52
472TinyClayMan
473*can't say*
47412:53
475Atvelonis
476Ah found this: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Museums
47712:53
478Rozty
479so far we have talked about having subpages for each museum right?
48012:53
481Atvelonis
482I'm not exactly sure what connects all these places
48312:53
484Rozty
485gathering items
486MrRiddle0 has left the chat. 
48712:54
488Atvelonis
489But you gather items all the time in ESO don't you?
49012:54
491Rozty
492i think the devs have also referred to them as "museums" as well
49312:54
494Atvelonis
495O
49612:54
497Rozty
498iirc it was in livestream and they were talking about how fun they were to make after the morrowind chatper?
499so they wanted to add more with the new ones, and seeing how murkmire apparently has one i'm guessing this is it
50012:55
501Atvelonis
502So if we use that categorization then that's 7 museums
503Each of which have maybe 20 items each, give or take
504MrRiddle0 has joined the chat. 
50512:56
506TinyClayMan
507Something like that, yes
50812:56
509Atvelonis
510I think that's not necessarily too much to fit on one page
511The quest item pages often have more like 50 per
51212:56
513Rozty
514yeah i think so too
515does that mean we are back at deciding the name?
51612:57
517Atvelonis
518I think Museum Items works?
51912:57
520Rozty
521yes it should, shouldn't it?
52212:57
523Atvelonis
524And we could make a "Museums" page as well
52512:58
526Rozty
527*also there is no category with such a name*
52812:58
529Atvelonis
530Or Museums  (Online) if there are other Museums in TES
53112:58
532TinyClayMan
533That museum in Tribunal
53412:58
535Rozty
536o right
537and the one from shivering isles
53812:59
539Atvelonis
540So maybe just a page called "Museums" listing all museums in TES
541disambig
542w/ a bunch of bullets for ESO
54312:59
544TinyClayMan
545*I hope noone creates museums  (Skyrim) for consistency - player usually collects 1-2 items for those*
54612:59
547Rozty
548oh, that's better\
549*let's decide now that no one should do that and we can rest easy that they won't be able to until they create a CT*  (kappa)
550The-Nord-In-Rags has joined the chat. 
5511:00
552Atvelonis
553Welcome
554Yes alright
555Other issues? Or are we set to vote?
5561:00
557The-Nord-In-Rags
558 Howdy
5591:01
560Rozty
561i think we should be good
562hello there
5631:01
564TinyClayMan
565What is the summary?
5661:01
567Atvelonis
568One second
569MrRiddle0 has left the chat. 
5701:02
571Atvelonis
572Ok. So the proposal is to merge all museum items (for each DLC region) into a list on one page called "Museum Items," instead of having individual pages for them. We will also created a disambig called "Museums" listing the museums in ESO and other games, but not game-specific lists of museums.
573 (+)
5741:03
575Rozty
576ok everyone voting time (and second time pls work)
577[[
578Atvelonis
579
580Bronkiin
581Away
582
583DaBarkspawn
584Away
585
586KINMUNE
587
588Nekyn Alb
589Away
590
591Poisoned apples
592Away
593
594RenzXVI
595Away
596
597The-Nord-In-Rags
598
599TinyClayMan
600Away|]]
6011:03
602Atvelonis
603haha
6041:03
605Rozty
606ffs
607 (+) 
608 1:03
609TinyClayMan
610 (+)
6111:03
612Atvelonis
613(+) or (=) or (-) to vote btw, TNR
614SkyrimDovah123 has joined the chat. 
6151:03
616Atvelonis
617Hi
6183-0-0
6191:03
620The-Nord-In-Rags
621 (+)
6221:04
623Atvelonis
6244-0-0
625vote people
626Bronkiin get your damn food already
6271:04
628Rozty
629can i just
6301:04
631Nekyn Alb
632 (+)
6331:04
634Rozty
635O
636it worked, i remembered how to do the magic ping
6371:04
638Atvelonis
6395-0-0
640Did it work? What did you do?
6411:04
642Nekyn Alb
643I wasn't pinged
6441:05
645Rozty
646i left a space after the | but not before
647SkyrimDovah123 has left the chat. 
6481:05
649Rozty
650i didn't ping anyone this time
6511:05
652DaBarkspawn
653 (=)
6541:05
655Atvelonis
6565-1-0
6571:05
658The-Nord-In-Rags
659The second time I have seen you you swear Atve. It's weird every time
6601:06
661Rozty
662til that damn is a swear word
6631:06
664Atvelonis
665It is a swear word... just not a very offensive one. I wouldn't use it in front of a professor
666It's like a worse version of "darn." Or really "darn" is an unoffensive version of "damn"
667anyway
6681:07
669Rozty
670ok, it just dawned on me that i have the next topic
6711:07
672Atvelonis
673If there are no more votes then we can move on
674Hold off for one minute actually I need to grab something to munch on
6751:07
676Rozty
677i want to rename stolen items to treasure since that's how they appear in the game
678heck
6791:07
680TinyClayMan
681 (kappa)
6821:08
683Rozty
684*the first thing i do once we vote on this is go grab something to eat*
6851:08
686TinyClayMan
687Shall it be "Treasure" or "Treasure Items"?
6881:08
689Rozty
690 (thinking)
691would it be confusing for players if it was just treasure?
692Masidillia has joined the chat. 
6931:09
694The-Nord-In-Rags
695Welcome
6961:09
697Rozty
698both sound just fine to me
699 o.
7001:09
701Atvelonis
702Ok back
703Hi
704I'd prefer Treasure Items
705Less ambiguous
7061:09
707Rozty
708that's true
709*btw that also means renaming the 20 something subpages as well*
7101:10
711Atvelonis
712Are there a lot of links to these pages?
713Task for the bot perhaps?
714If it's only a few for each then maybe not
715Poisoned apples has left the chat. 
7161:11
717Atvelonis
718I'm pretty sure that you can cascade rename. Pretty sure
719I know that you can cascade protect at least
7201:11
721TinyClayMan
722Pages that link to them should also be changed
7231:11
724Rozty
725i think they have only been used for references so far so they shouldn't be large in number
7261:11
727Atvelonis
728Ah yes https://i.gyazo.com/a75e7033a8cebff2f11e5f1a07b65527.png
729Can rename up to 100 subpages
730Not sure if this is a sysop right or what
731But it can be done
732Poisoned apples has joined the chat. 
7331:11
734Rozty
735nice
7361:12
737Atvelonis
738All good then?
7391:12
740Rozty
741btw, this is linked to the museum items we talked about before but it seems they are also listed in the main stolen items page
742Poisoned apples has left the chat. 
743Poisoned apples has joined the chat. 
7441:12
745DaBarkspawn
746For "reason" put "because I said so"
747The-Nord-In-Rags has left the chat. 
7481:13
749Atvelonis
750Kari's Hit List?
7511:13
752Rozty
753is your internet ok there poisoned apples
754yes, that's the one
7551:13
756Poisoned apples
757ehh what did I miss
7581:13
759TinyClayMan
760Stolen Items is a list for "Treasure" type items
7611:13
762Rozty
763nothing much, just a line or two
7641:13
765Atvelonis
766We could put a ==See also== section linking to Museum Items
767Masidillia has left the chat. 
7681:13
769Atvelonis
770As they appear to be different
7711:13
772TinyClayMan
773Items on Kari's hit list are considered to be Treasure
7741:13
775Atvelonis
776??
777I thought they were museum items
7781:14
779Rozty
780but wasn't the thieves guild museum that hit list?
781Masidillia has joined the chat. 
7821:15
783TinyClayMan
784Well
785You collect those items and place them in the museum
7861:15
787Rozty
788*so it's both*
7891:15
790TinyClayMan
791But they are still marked as "Treasure"
7921:15
793Atvelonis
794Are all museum items treasure items?
795Or just Kari's hit list?
7961:15
797Rozty
798no, just the list
7991:15
800Atvelonis
801So we could transclude it from the Museum Items list
802good old onlyinclude
8031:16
804TinyClayMan
805Other Museum Items are ?Quest items?, iirc
806I'm most likely wrong
8071:16
808Rozty
809but they can be displayed in that fancy den so they should also be listed as museum items right?
8101:16
811Atvelonis
812Yeah
813Transclusion should be fine though
814We could set it up so that Kari's hit list has <onlyinclude> around it on the museum items page
815And then do {{:Museum Items}} on the treasure items page under a kari's hit list section
8161:17
817Rozty
818oh that sounds good
8191:17
820Atvelonis
821Thus getting the content on each page while having it stored on only 1 (less maintenance)
822yeah
8231:17
824TinyClayMan
825But should they remain in Sublists?
8261:17
827Rozty
828btw, it seems the current list also contains clues
829wait, they are in the sublists right now?
8301:17
831TinyClayMan
832*On Museum Items: they are marked as Trophy*
833http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewlog.php?action=view&record=npcLoot&id=858917
834Subpages, I mean
8351:18
836Atvelonis
837Oh so this is the category you were talking about? Category:Online: Trophies
8381:18
839Rozty
840all i know is that my inventory doesn't consider them as quest items and refuses to let me store or drop them
8411:19
842Atvelonis
843That category is also collectibles I think
844Not just things marked "trophy"
845The-Nord-In-Rags has joined the chat. 
846CatholicPrincess15 has joined the chat. 
8471:19
848KINMUNE
849Hello there, CatholicPrincess15!
8501:19
851Atvelonis
852hi
8531:19
854CatholicPrincess15
855Hey!
8561:19
857Atvelonis
858And I guess if we're doing transclusion it might actually make sense to use subpages for Museum Items
859in case we want to transclude other lists
860because if we just set up onlyinclude for Kari's Hit List then if we want to transclude, idk, the House of Orsimer Glories then we can't
861w/o putting them on a different page (afaik)
862Masidillia has left the chat. 
8631:20
864Rozty
865i guess it wouldn't hurt being consistent like this yeah
866The-Nord-In-Rags has left the chat. 
8671:21
868Rozty
869have we sorted everything out then?
8701:21
871Atvelonis
872I think so?
8731:22
874TinyClayMan
875On Category:Online: Trophies:
876They are actually Online: Collectibles
8771:22
878Rozty
879 (kappa)
8801:22
881Atvelonis
882Should we rename that category then?
8831:22
884Rozty
885that's great
8861:22
887TinyClayMan
888We should
8891:22
890Atvelonis
891Ok
892So, the proposal is to rename Stolen Items to Treasure Items, and also slightly amend the previous decision to actually have subpages for each museum on the Museum Items page, and also rename Category:Online Trophies to Category:Online: Collectibles.
893 (+)
894(+) or (=) or (-) to vote
8951:23
896Rozty
897 (+)
8981:23
899TinyClayMan
900 (+)
9011:23
902DaBarkspawn
903 (=)
9041:23
905Rozty
906[[Atvelonis
907
908Bronkiin
909Away
910
911CatholicPrincess15
912
913DaBarkspawn
914Away
915
916KINMUNE
917
918Nekyn Alb
919Away
920
921Poisoned apples
922
923RenzXVI
924Away
925
926TinyClayMan
927Away| ]]
928why
9291:23
930Poisoned apples
931I missed this topic  (=)
9321:23
933Atvelonis
934maybe put it inside an emoji
9351:23
936DaBarkspawn
937lol
9381:23
939Atvelonis
9403-2-0
941We need at least 4 to pass if 2 of you are voting neutral
942nekyn stop being afk
943et al
9441:24
945CatholicPrincess15
946I don't know how to make a plus.
9471:24
948Rozty
949*nekyn save pls, i don't want to present this again next month*
9501:24
951CatholicPrincess15
952+
9531:24
954TinyClayMan
955DaBarkspawn: you can act as a jury - if you read everything and found it sensible you can vote ( + )
9561:24
957CatholicPrincess15
958( + )
9591:24
960Rozty
961without the space
9621:24
963Atvelonis
964do what you just did but without the spaces
9651:24
966CatholicPrincess15
967 (+)
968AHA!
9691:24
970Nekyn Alb
971 (+)
9721:24
973Atvelonis
9745-2-0
9751:25
976Rozty
977nice
978you guys just narrowly escaped another hour long topic from me
979be happy, i'll only have two next month now
980RhodiumOdi has joined the chat. 
9811:26
982Atvelonis
983look who decided to show up
984I kid. welcome
9851:26
986Rozty
987well well well
9881:26
989RhodiumOdi
990I didn’t completely forget about the moot, what?
9911:26
992Atvelonis
993If that's all the votes for this proposal then I think we can move on
994TinyClayMan you had some stuff?
9951:26
996TinyClayMan
997I did, a moment
9981:26
999Rozty
1000tiny still has to talk about stuff and i am going to grab something to eat so brb
10011:26
1002TinyClayMan
1003The first topic is 
1004Removal of categories Category:Online: Notes and Letters, Category:Online: Journals
1005As they are very subjective and were added only to be consistent with other games
10061:28
1007Atvelonis
1008Also confuses things, what with Online: Notes and Memos being an Eidetic Memory subcategory
1009iirc this was brought up some time ago but for some reason was forgotten about
1010I don't really have a problem with it
1011Will be easy to remove the categories with the bot
10121:29
1013CatholicPrincess15
1014Yay Kinmune!
10151:29
1016RhodiumOdi
1017Anyone have any problems with removing them?
10181:29
1019TinyClayMan
1020>Online: Notes and Memos being an Eidetic Memory subcategory
1021There are a couple of in-game categories for books in these subjective two
1022So there is no need to keep them
10231:30
1024Atvelonis
1025Sooo the proposal is to remove Category:Online: Notes and Letters and Category:Online: Journals as they are arbitrary classifications in ESO and make things needlessly confusing.
1026 (+)
10271:31
1028RhodiumOdi
1029 (-)
10301:31
1031TinyClayMan
1032Huh?
1033Why?
10341:31
1035Atvelonis
10361-0-1
10371:31
1038TinyClayMan
1039*that message is related to ( - )*
1040 (+)
1041TheBretonMage has joined the chat. 
10421:31
1043KINMUNE
1044Hello there, TheBretonMage!
10451:31
1046Atvelonis
1047hi
10481:31
1049TinyClayMan
1050hello
10511:32
1052RhodiumOdi
1053meant neutral but I’m an idiot
10541:32
1055TheBretonMage
1056hey all
10571:32
1058RhodiumOdi
1059disregard
10601:32
1061Atvelonis
1062equals sign for neutral
10631:32
1064CatholicPrincess15
1065 (+)
10661:32
1067Atvelonis
1068still 3-0-1 unless you recast my friend
10691:32
1070Poisoned apples
1071 (+)
10721:32
1073RhodiumOdi
1074 (=)
10751:32
1076Atvelonis
10774-1-0
10781:32
1079RhodiumOdi
1080Aha!
10811:32
1082TheBretonMage
1083 (+)
10841:32
1085Rozty
1086 (+)
10871:33
1088Atvelonis
10896-1-0
10901:33
1091Rozty
1092haha, just in time
10931:33
1094Atvelonis
1095Mr. Slug you have not cast a vote yet
1096@Nekyn
10971:34
1098Nekyn Alb
1099(*)
1100Slug already pings me  :p
11011:34
1102Atvelonis
1103nice
11041:34
1105Rozty
1106nice
11071:34
1108TinyClayMan
1109nice
11101:34
1111TheBretonMage
1112cool
11131:34
1114Rozty
1115ban
11161:34
1117Atvelonis
1118(banhammer)
11191:34
1120TinyClayMan
1121gureito
11221:34
1123Atvelonis
1124darn
11251:34
1126Rozty
1127you broke the chain
11281:34
1129Atvelonis
1130 (hammer)
11311:35
1132Nekyn Alb
1133So they aren't in eidetic memory?
11341:35
1135Rozty
1136no, i remember we have discussed this before at one point
11371:35
1138Atvelonis
1139Online: Notes and Memos, Online: Houses, Shops, and Trade, etc. are
1140Online: Notes and Letters and Online: Journals are separate
11411:35
1142Nekyn Alb
1143 (+) then
11441:35
1145Rozty
1146the naming is confusing as well
11471:35
1148Atvelonis
11497-1-0
1150Yes it is
1151Well if there are no more votes than we can proceed
11521:36
1153TinyClayMan
1154The second topic is
1155Wikia.css change
1156The proposal is to change the sizes of h3 and h4
1157in Wikia.css instead of 
1158.WikiaArticle h3 {font-size:20px; font-weight:bold;}
1159.WikiaArticle h4 {font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;}
1160it will be 
1161.WikiaArticle h1 {font-size:24px}
1162.WikiaArticle h2 {font-size:18px}
1163.WikiaArticle h3 {font-size:16px; font-weight:bold;}
1164.WikiaArticle h4 {font-size:14px; font-weight:bold;}
1165 1:37
1166Atvelonis
1167MediaWiki:Wikia.css for reference
11681:37
1169Rozty
1170so decrease h3 by 4px and h4 by 2px?
11711:37
1172TinyClayMan
1173Yes
11741:37
1175RhodiumOdi
1176Why?
11771:38
1178Rozty
1179i need to see how this looks like, can we do that?
11801:38
1181Atvelonis
1182How big is H2 right now?
11831:38
1184TinyClayMan
1185Right now h2 and h3 are mostly the same with h3 just not having the line
11861:38
1187TheBretonMage
1188So, make the text size smaller?
11891:38
1190Atvelonis
1191Just for the headers
11921:38
1193TinyClayMan
1194Wait, I'll check
11951:39
1196Atvelonis
1197In 2016 (or maybe 2015) Wikia changed the default font size for wikis on the platform
1198I forget the numbers exactly but it was raised from ~12 to ~14 (?????)
11991:39
1200TinyClayMan
1201Right now h2 is 20px
12021:39
1203Atvelonis
1204And headers grew as well
1205Our wiki kept the regular text the normal size though
1206But our headers got bigger
1207lol I remember Sajuuk complaining about it
12081:40
1209Rozty
1210hold on, if h2 is currently 18 and h3 is 20 then why does it not look bigger to me
12111:40
1212Atvelonis
1213So I think this change is desirable. Gets things more consistent. Because right now our headers are too big for our text
12141:40
1215Rozty
1216https://gyazo.com/c6bf55853c54fba033936e662fa71df2
1217smh do it here
12181:41
1219Atvelonis
1220reee non-direct image link
12211:41
1222TinyClayMan
1223heh
12241:41
1225Rozty
1226*right that is a thing that exists*
12271:41
1228RhodiumOdi
1229angrey Atv
12301:41
1231Rozty
1232https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/223251578927316992/531225407685394443/unknown.png
1233are you happy now
12341:42
1235Atvelonis
1236yes
12371:42
1238Rozty
1239nice
12401:42
1241Atvelonis
1242Any questions about this topic?
12431:42
1244CatholicPrincess15
1245I'm good.
12461:43
1247TinyClayMan
1248*more about this topic can be found by searching for h2 in #offtopic in Discord. It is mroe detailed there*
1249*more
12501:43
1251RhodiumOdi
1252feels a bit like change for change’s sake but I can’t really say I object
12531:43
1254CatholicPrincess15
1255Are we voting now?
12561:43
1257Atvelonis
1258one second
12591:43
1260Rozty
1261*still wanna see how it looks like*
1262also tiny i don't remember anything from discord pls send screenshots
12631:44
1264Atvelonis
1265So the proposal is, in MediaWiki:Wikia.css, to change the size of H2 headers from 20px to 18px, H3 headers from 20px to 16px, and H4 headers from 16px to 14px
12661:44
1267Rozty
1268*and how many days ago was that anyway*
12691:44
1270TinyClayMan
1271Sent one
12721:44
1273Atvelonis
1274https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/223251578927316992/531226490726252554/unknown.png
12751:44
1276Rozty
1277o
12781:44
1279TinyClayMan
1280It was on 14th of December
12811:45
1282Atvelonis
1283 (+)
12841:45
1285TinyClayMan
1286Wait
12871:45
1288Atvelonis
1289ok
12901:45
1291TinyClayMan
1292In the summary there is no h1
12931:45
1294Atvelonis
1295We don't really use H1
12961:45
1297TheBretonMage
1298 (=)
12991:45
1300TinyClayMan
1301For consistency
13021:46
1303Atvelonis
1304Is it being changed?
13051:46
1306TinyClayMan
1307From 36 to 28
13081:46
1309RhodiumOdi
1310 (+)
13111:46
1312Atvelonis
1313you said 24 above
1314hold off on the votes for one second
13151:46
1316TinyClayMan
1317Sent screenshot to #general
13181:46
1319Atvelonis
1320https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/223251578927316992/531226967463428142/unknown.png
13211:46
1322TinyClayMan
1323*probably a mistake*
1324Ah
13251:47
1326Rozty
1327godammit you lied to me, the only thing from december 14 on discord is that one sonic sload edit
13281:47
1329RhodiumOdi
1330*votes first* *asks people to hold off on voting*
13311:47
1332Rozty
1333 (kappa)
13341:47
1335Atvelonis
1336yeah that's right. what are you gonna do about it
1337@Tiny: how about this
1338So the (real) proposal is, in MediaWiki:Wikia.css, to change the size of H1 headers from 36px to 28px, H2 headers from 20px to 18px, H3 headers from 20px to 16px, and H4 headers from 16px to 14px
1339Are those numbers correct?
13401:47
1341TheBretonMage
1342(impeachhsmmer)
1343*hammer
13441:48
1345Rozty
1346hsmmer
13471:48
1348TinyClayMan
1349They are
13501:48
1351Atvelonis
1352Ok
1353 (+)
1354Restart
13551:48
1356RhodiumOdi
1357 (+)
1358MrRiddle0 has joined the chat. 
13591:48
1360TheBretonMage
1361 (-)
13621:49
1363Atvelonis
13642-0-1
13651:49
1366Rozty
1367 (+)
13681:49
1369TinyClayMan
1370 (+)
13711:49
1372Poisoned apples
1373 (+)
13741:49
1375Atvelonis
13765-0-1
13771:49
1378Nekyn Alb
1379 (+)
13801:49
1381Rozty
1382ok last time should do it [[Atvelonis
1383
1384Bronkiin
1385Away
1386
1387CatholicPrincess15
1388Away
1389
1390DaBarkspawn
1391Away
1392
1393KINMUNE
1394
1395MrRiddle0
1396
1397Nekyn Alb
1398Away
1399
1400Poisoned apples
1401
1402RenzXVI
1403Away
1404
1405RhodiumOdi
1406
1407TheBretonMage
1408
1409TinyClayMan
1410Away| ]]
1411i hate this
14121:49
1413Atvelonis
1414without fail
1415it always fails
14161:49
1417Rozty
1418i mean, it worked before
14191:50
1420Atvelonis
1421I bet it's the line breaks that are messing with it
14226-0-1
14231:50
1424Rozty
1425if i do it like this it's fine
14261:50
1427DaBarkspawn
1428 (=)
14291:50
1430Rozty
1431so what the heck
14321:50
1433Atvelonis
14346-1-1
1435I didn't get a ping just now
14361:50
1437Rozty
1438i pinge nekyn only
14391:50
1440MrRiddle0
1441âž•
14421:50
1443Atvelonis
1444do (+) to vote, Riddle
1445or = or -
14461:51
1447Rozty
1448howmst
14491:51
1450RhodiumOdi
1451ahaha
14521:51
1453MrRiddle0
1454 (+)
14551:51
1456Atvelonis
14577-1-1
14581:51
1459MrRiddle0
1460magic
14611:51
1462Atvelonis
1463P.S. this change only affects desktop
1464Our custom CSS doesn't render on the mobile skins afaik
14651:51
1466Rozty
1467mobile was dead anyway
1468to me at least
1469TheBretonMage has left the chat. 
14701:52
1471Atvelonis
1472Yeah I don't use it if I can avoid it
14731:52
1474RhodiumOdi
1475currently using mobile for chat
14761:52
1477TinyClayMan
1478Moot topic:
1479Add the ability to edit in mobile mode
14801:52
1481Rozty
1482not up to us
1483also that one sucks
14841:53
1485RhodiumOdi
1486Special:Change my dood
14871:53
1488Rozty
1489wot
14901:53
1491Atvelonis
1492I regularly bother Wikia about that. Helps if other people contact them too though. Special:Contact/feedback
14931:53
1494MrRiddle0
1495Pros: it would be more convenient for someone like me who doesn’t have access to a computer all the time
14961:53
1497Atvelonis
1498I 100% support mobile editing in all forms
14991:53
1500RhodiumOdi
1501my copy and paste didn’t work rip
15021:53
1503Atvelonis
1504Even just a VE is better than nothing
15051:53
1506MrRiddle0
1507cons: it could increase the amount of vandalism
15081:53
1509CatholicPrincess15
1510 (=)
15111:53
1512Rozty
1513cons: i suck at it
15147-2-1 the final then
15151:54
1516TinyClayMan
1517Passed
15181:54
1519Rozty
1520yeet
15211:54
1522Atvelonis
1523Our abusefilter catches most vandalism honestly
1524It's pretty thorough
1525Special:AbuseFilter/2
1526Aaaanyway
15271:55
1528MrRiddle0
1529i wonder how well it would even work on mobile? I mean it would probably be harder to add sources and such
15301:55
1531Rozty
15324chan is still there
15331:55
1534Atvelonis
1535indeed
1536@Riddle: it depends what sort of editor they added
1537TheBretonMage has joined the chat. 
15381:55
1539Atvelonis
1540If they added a WYSIWYG like the Visual Editor on desktop, they would have to come up with some stupid proprietary way of adding references
1541But if they added the Source editor then it would just be a matter of using the correct syntax
1542Source > VE any day
15431:56
1544Rozty
1545wait, can't you add references with VE?
15461:56
1547Atvelonis
1548Yeah but not fully
15491:56
1550Rozty
1551i've seen some of the names generated by the VE i think
1552oh
15531:56
1554Atvelonis
1555You can't name or group them to my knowledge
1556You can tell that they're VE refs because they're named "0" or "1" etc.
1557Very annoying to clean up
15581:57
1559Rozty
1560i hate them and i always change them
15611:57
1562Bronkiin
1563allo
1564We still mooting?
15651:57
1566Rozty
1567welcome back
15681:57
1569Atvelonis
1570lol
15711:57
1572Rozty
1573we done yo
15741:57
1575Bronkiin
1576Well
1577hi
15781:57
1579Rozty
1580why did it take you two hours to eat
15811:57
1582Atvelonis
1583Do we have any last-minute topics?
15841:57
1585DaBarkspawn
1586And there was much rejoicing
1587TheBretonMage has left the chat. 
15881:57
1589Atvelonis
1590Can be anything
15911:58
1592MrRiddle0
1593I think the only reason it doesn’t currently exist is because it would require actual work by FANDOM to get right
15941:58
1595Rozty
1596*can i go*
15971:58
1598Atvelonis
1599You don't have to have signed up beforehand
16001:58
1601DaBarkspawn
1602Atv: should we discuss the end of Wikia chat?
16031:58
1604Rozty
1605 (kappa)
16061:58
1607Bronkiin
1608cos played fifa with brother
16091:58
1610Atvelonis
1611Wouldn't hurt
16121:58
1613Bronkiin
1614and forgot
1615nooo
1616never end the chat
16171:58
1618Atvelonis
1619Wikia made a thread on central today: https://community.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:1589008
1620Yesterday
16211:58
1622Bronkiin
1623keep it here as a superflous feature
1624a relic
16251:58
1626Atvelonis
1627Now they didn't actually say they were removing all Chats
1628Which is nice
1629But they're testing to see what Community Central is like without a Chat
16301:59
1631Rozty
1632how thoughtful of them
16331:59
1634Atvelonis
1635it's kinda foreshadowing that they're going to remove it overall
16361:59
1637Rozty
1638which is a weird change
16391:59
1640Poisoned apples
1641Why would they want to remove chat?
16421:59
1643Atvelonis
1644CC Chat is a hellhole but I'm still fond of Chat as a wholke
1645whole
16461:59
1647DaBarkspawn
1648I just think we should be prepared with a backup plan for moots
16491:59
1650Atvelonis
1651@PA: The code for Chat is extremely janky
1652Giant heap of spaghetti level janky
16532:00
1654RhodiumOdi
1655But if we have no chat, what excuse will Renz have to stay in the Slack channel?
16562:00
1657MrRiddle0
1658How does it benefit them to remove it when it would be far more logical to just make it useable on mobile
16592:00
1660Atvelonis
1661It's officially deprecated right now, like achievements, i.e. it exists but is not being worked on
16622:00
1663Bronkiin
1664Keep it as a monument to all the IamNoirs, the Sajuuks, the Shawn Cognitions, the  xd abuse, the huge fights over whether swearing is allowed (fuck knows it should be)
16652:00
1666Rozty
1667that's true, although since we have a discord server already our backup is pretty much ready
16682:00
1669TinyClayMan
1670We just discussed headers which use code that is overwritten by other code
16712:00
1672RenzXVI
1673Wait what
16742:00
1675RhodiumOdi
1676Lol
16772:00
1678DaBarkspawn
1679What are the steps to officializing discord?
16802:01
1681Atvelonis
1682It would require a consensus track decision, which has various rules of its own
16832:01
1684Rozty
1685i'm thinking something along the lines of, step 1: say it's official
16862:01
1687RhodiumOdi
1688Any time Wikia mentions chat the first thing they talk about is how much of a bitch to work with it is
16892:01
1690Rozty
1691heck
16922:01
1693Atvelonis
1694Needs at least 10 votes, 2/3 supporting, blah blah
16952:01
1696Rozty
1697why does it have to be so complicated
16982:01
1699Atvelonis
1700And I would also want all the chat moderators to be on board with it
1701Because if Chat were removed then Discord would be their new place to moderate
1702If the server were to become official that is
17032:02
1704Rozty
1705it seems that wikia wants to abandon it though, so if it is removed we don't have much else to fall back on
17062:02
1707Atvelonis
1708IRC  :P
1709That server's still official, technically
17102:02
1711MrRiddle0
1712Can’t we do the vote now?
17132:02
1714DaBarkspawn
1715Okay, I'm happy as long as we all know what the process is. We can postpone the actuality until if/when Wikia actually does the drop.
17162:02
1717Rozty
1718*does anyone even use that*
17192:02
1720MrRiddle0
1721 (+)
17222:02
1723Atvelonis
1724Vote for what, Riddle?
1725Yes Rozty but not really
17262:02
1727DaBarkspawn
1728Personally, I'd rather use Slack than discord
17292:03
1730MrRiddle0
1731To make Discord official
17322:03
1733Atvelonis
1734Needs a CT
17352:03
1736DaBarkspawn
1737if IRC is on the table.  ;)
17382:03
1739Atvelonis
1740Not something we can do in the moot. Too big
17412:03
1742MrRiddle0
1743rules
17442:03
1745Atvelonis
1746I like Slack a lot. Discord is more accessible though. Probably better suited for a community server than Slack
1747Slack is nice because you can go on it wherever and look like you're doing work.  :P
17482:04
1749TinyClayMan
1750I think that concludes the moot.
1751Jauffre is not present and all other topics were discussed
17522:04
1753Atvelonis
1754Alright
17552:04
1756CatholicPrincess15
1757Nice being with you!
17582:04
1759Bronkiin
1760I officially close this moot
17612:04
1762RhodiumOdi
1763Slack > Discord
17642:04
1765MrRiddle0
1766I officially open it and close it
17672:04
1768Rozty
1769big talk coming from someone that played fifa instead of being here  (kappa)
17702:04
1771DaBarkspawn
1772CP15: We're happy to have had you if you are happy to have been had.
17732:04
1774Atvelonis
1775Then by the power vested within me by Todd Howard and Jimbo Wales, I declare this moot to be done!
17762:04
1777TinyClayMan
1778 (kappa)
17792:04
1780Atvelonis
1781damn it bronb
17822:04
1783Bronkiin
1784fucking bronb
17852:05
1786Atvelonis
1787@slugman or someone else who has been here the whole time, copy+paste the text of the moot into a pastebin if you don't mind
1788and share it here or somewhere
1789in case KINMUNE dies in the next 3 hours