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23â–¶Make /Hypno/ Great Again Third  05/16/17 (Tue) 00:49:46 No.24749>>24750 >>24754 >>24766 >>24964 >>25047 >>25065 >>25168 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
24Real talk time. Why is almost every thread just a request for files? Where are the discussions on hypnosis this board should be for?
25Some of you might say "But tumblr and Reddit have tons of discussions about hypnosis we just need a place to share our files so they don't get DMCA'd."
26But that's overlooking the fact that those sites are overrun with SJWs. Even here I see people spouting the propaganda we created years ago, that hypnosis can't make you do anything you don't want to, that hypnosis is just guided meditation, that it's only as powerful as you let it be. 
27This is 8chan. I think we should be able to have a real conversation here, maybe gather some like-minds and get back to what our community should be doing which is pushing the bleeding edge of research. 
28So here's what I'm going to do. I've got years of experience and I'm willing to share it with you. Ask a question about hypnosis and I'll answer it to the best of my ability. If anyone else wants to jump in and answer questions then by all means do so. Hopefully we can get some real conversations going and Make /Hypno/ Great Again.
29â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 01:28:07 No.24750>>24751
30>>24749 (OP)
31> Even here I see people spouting the propaganda we created years ago, that hypnosis can't make you do anything you don't want to, that hypnosis is just guided meditation, that it's only as powerful as you let it be. 
32Am I retarded? 
33You can be hypnotized willingly so I assumed that it can only do as much as you let it do.
34What is it that you know that makes this different?
35
36â–¶Third  05/16/17 (Tue) 01:34:30 No.24751>>24767 >>24768 >>24964
37>>24750
38Initial consent can easily be warped into nearly anything. A subject's values, limits, and perceptions can all be shifted given a bit of time and effort. 
39Willingness stops being a factor very quickly. I'm writing up a greentext about one of my subjects, it should elucidate further on this.
40
41â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 01:47:35 No.24752
42This community is shit and i have nothing to discuss with you filthy degenerates.
43
44â–¶Third  05/16/17 (Tue) 02:37:36 No.24754>>24755 >>24787 >>24792 >>24964 >>25112
45File (hide): 2fed36c2fcdb9c1⋯.png (1.62 MB, 708x1000, 177:250, 2fed36c2fcdb9c15b8e09e947b….png) (h) (u)
46
47>>24749 (OP)
48Lets start with a story to bump and create some interest. You're welcome to believe or disbelieve.
49>Be me, 22, Male, in college
50>Meet a girl in class, she seems pretty cool, outdoorsy and open-minded let's call her E
51>E and I hit it off, start hanging out
52>Things are chill for a while, we watch movies, play vidya, go to the beach with friends
53>I like this girl, she's got a good body and is relatively intelligent, strong willed too
54>One day we're just laying around bored and I bring up hypnosis, been a strong interest and fetish for me since forever
55>She's skeptic so I load her up with the usual bs about it being like meditation and how it can't make you do anything against your will
56>A little convincing later and she's up for it
57>I put her under, just a test session to feel her out, basic staircase induction leading into a storytime about walking on the beach and then getting pulled away by a balloon on her wrist, she went full cataleptic and was able to tune out a very loud phone alarm so I thought it went well
58>She likes it, says it felt great (no shit, I made sure to sprinkle in a ton of phrasing about how good it feels)
59>The next day she asks for more, I'm not surprised she asked but a little surprised it was so soon, usually it takes a couple days to really sink in
60>Ask if she's ok with me putting in a trigger, nothing serious just a little feel-good buzzer
61>She says yes and I use that assent to take her into trance, another staircase for familiarity but this time I lead that into progressive relaxation coupled with mindlessness
62>Installed the feel-good buzzer, basically just had her dredge up a memory of being really happy and grateful (I think it was getting her first dog or something) copy-pasted the feeling alone and then amped it a tiny bit. 
63>Tied the buzzer to me snapping my fingers (I know a lot of people like to tie other stuff to this but I prefer it to be a happy button because I have a habit of snapping my fingers without thinking)
64>wake her up after confirming it works and using it a few times under trance
65>She's flushed, smiles all around
66>I snap, she wiggles around and laughs a bit
67>E asks for me to put her under nearly every day after that, I take my time, reinforcing the triggers I have installed and occasionally putting new ones in
68>After about a month she's got triggers for happiness, emptiness, forgetting her name, forgetting a stretch of time, dropping into trance, laughing uncontrollably, becoming a dog, fixating on any named object until she fell into trance, and feeling like her whole body was being massaged.
69>She kisses me, ahead of plan but not unwanted (I take the slow and steady approach, you only get to break a girl once)
70>I ask if she wants to try something a bit more sexual with hypnosis, she says she'd love to (put enough positive expectation in someone's head and they'll try anything)
71>Take her under, fractionate for full effect
72>Install a trigger so that every time I kiss her her mind goes a bit fuzzier, coupled with a little surge of pleasure and a jolt of arousal that doubles each time I kiss her(a great technique to bind someone to you, it makes the physical intimacy of kissing into an addictant but keeps the power on your end)
73>wake her up briefly to show her how it feels, she melts into me and starts kissing me but quickly finds it only works when I kiss her
74>Asks why it doesn't work the other way and I give her a line about phrasing and how she must have misinterpreted what I said in her subconscious 
75>Put her back under, install a second trigger where when she kisses me it makes her feel blank and a bit horny, but not as powerfully as when I kiss her and without any doubling.
76>While she's still under I suggest to her that when she wakes up any nervousness will be gone and she'll feel completely comfortable
77>Wake her up, she's all over me, kissing becomes groping becomes sex.
78>Over the next week I install triggers to make her horny on demand, orgasm, be unable to orgasm, and to crave my cock in her mouth (this was done by creating a new, warped version of arousal that focused on her mouth rather than her pussy and made the feeling of my cum in her mouth equivalent to or exceed orgasm.)
79>By the end of the week she's ready for the next steps and winter break looms.
80continued…
81
82â–¶Third  05/16/17 (Tue) 02:38:46 No.24755>>24761 >>24787 >>24964 >>25019
83File (hide): f95d8976c973c5b⋯.jpg (621.55 KB, 2592x1944, 4:3, 1480152458169.jpg) (h) (u)
84
85>>24754
86>Not being a total demon I make an offswitch exception that lets her focus on studying and schoolwork when she isn't around me. Finals are coming up and I like having useful slaves not uneducated bimbos.
87>We take it slow until after Finals, except for a couple times where I hang out at her house to reinforce everything a bit more (you can never have too much reinforcement).
88>After Finals we would have almost 7 weeks before the next semester started and aside from family obligations and her one roommate there was nothing to get in the way
89>E starts pressuring me to do more, to give her more "down" time where she doesn't have to think (not thinking is easily one of the most addictive drugs I know of, prove me wrong)
90>I oblige and introduce her to the concept of fucking while she's completely blank and blissed out. This proceeds nicely into making her associate blankness with subservience and because she already associates happiness with blankness it ties all three into a neat little package.
91>This leads into associating intense feelings of pleasure and arousal with being called a good girl. Then to even more intense feelings of subservience and contentment to calling me master.
92>I started E down the road to thinking of herself as a slave and me as her Master and in turn feeling better than she'd ever felt in her life both about herself and her place in the world.
93>I culminated everything with a "perfect slave" visualization and actualization where I describe in great detail how a "perfect" slave acts and thinks and had her imagine a version of herself that acts and thinks that way. This version was crafted over a period of three days of intense 5+ hour sessions and then swapped with her "original" self. 
94>After the swap I took her slave persona under and created a new "normal" she would revert to when not around me.
95>With these two new personalities created and installed I carefully instructed her to completely remove the original self.
96>All in all it took me a grand total of 49 days to turn a strong-willed, independent woman into a lovingly obedient sexdoll. 
97I have several other similar stories and could go into further detail on facets of this story. No one has ever even noticed as far as I can tell, she acts just like she did when we first met, maybe happier and a bit more demure but she's still outwardly the same person until either we're alone together or I trigger her to swap into her slave state. She graduated with a Bachelors in Chemistry and then a Masters in Materials Engineering.
98Pic is not her but similar enough.
99
100â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 03:04:15 No.24758>>24812
101Very interesting op., but I really have to question whether that is what she really wanted or not, she may very well have wanted it and you may very well have just given it to her.
102She enjoys her second life I presume so what is there not to want? 
103Can you retell of experiences where you have enacted to hypnotic punishments? Called upon stress? pain? 
104What about non-punishment and just out of the blue with the subject being unknowingly planted such triggers?
105
106â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 03:17:16 No.24761
107>>24755
108See that's hypnosis done right. You always leave them with agency when they aren't in a session.
109
110â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 05:41:39 No.24766>>24799 >>24812
111File (hide): dd54e21e49ecb0b⋯.png (142.79 KB, 600x849, 200:283, aeb9a755a05f181c29412e3dd2….png) (h) (u)
112
113>>24749 (OP)
114Do you have an opinion on the automatic imagination model? Sometime back in 2015 there was a /hypno/ thread for it with some good discussion and I was wondering if you were familiar with it or the weird induction technique people picked up from it.
115See https://archive.is/EcQkb if you're not familiar with it.
116
117â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 05:57:22 No.24767>>24812
118I would like more discussion.
119>>24751
120>Initial consent can easily be warped into nearly anything. A subject's values, limits, and perceptions can all be shifted given a bit of time and effort. 
121This is true and should be kept in mind, but it's not "propaganda we created". I've been in this fetish since it was only on story sites and erotic audio sites and this has always been stated. And it's kinda sorta true on a basic level.
122I am really interested in in getting into the dom side of this whole thing, but I don't really know where to start with that, I've always been in it as a sub.
123
124â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 06:20:07 No.24768>>24770 >>24812
125>>24751
126Do you think people can be forced to behave differently in social situations? It seems quite easy to change your private habits or activities but most seem to have very strong defensive barriers to change their outward personal and the consequences this could have.
127
128â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 06:42:52 No.24770
129>>24768
130Not him, but yes, absolutely.
131This can be done through conditioning, and hypnosis is a great platform for conditioning. It would obviously be a lot more work, but it's completely possible.
132
133â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 08:34:39 No.24781>>24812
134Interesting, thanks for sharing your experiences. Did you make her do anything that should've made her feeling uncomfortable? How do you make her carry out her submissiveness to you in her everyday life?
135
136â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 13:16:08 No.24786>>24813
137how did you learn to hypnotize?
138there is any book or course you recomend?
139
140â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 13:19:41 No.24787>>24796 >>24813
141>>24754
142>>24755
143Curious, how did you learn how to do all this? I'm interested in getting skilled like this for all sorts of reasons, not necessarily sexual.
144
145â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 17:46:47 No.24792>>24795 >>24813
146>>24754
147Nice story OP. Do you have moral moral concerns?
148Because it can be seen as you tricked her into this without telling her your true intentions before you started. Was this your plan in the first place, or did you make it up along the way? Did you install a fail-safe mechanism ? Do you feel responsible for her on a soul to soul level? Sorry to sound like an asshole who kills all the fun, but if we want to make this fucked up world a better place we weed to stop abuse (=no consent) on evrey level.
149OR
150Could it be you hypnotised yourself believing you have overwritten her true will because it is your fetish ?
151It would be interesting to hear her side of the story. Why not show her this thread and ask her to respond.
152
153â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 18:37:15 No.24795>>24796 >>24813
154>>24792
155Not OP and wanted to express something simillar but then I had a nice epiphany. 
156OP was kind of "manipulated" into making her a "slave". She gets to settle down with a smart and capable guy (I guess?) and feels pretty nice for it. I wouldn't mind getting in her position.
157
158â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 18:50:15 No.24796>>24803 >>24813
159File (hide): 62f043bdccfa002⋯.pdf (535.87 KB, Hypnotism cards.pdf) (h) (u)
160
161>>24795
162The bit about starting pressuring you to do more to her and to give her more "down" time makes me think she initiated a lot of it and you went along with it, and rationalized it afterwards so you felt like you manipulated her instead of both of you being drawn to the idea.
163>>24787
164
165â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 19:26:55 No.24799>>24813
166So what do you think so far?
167Can hypnosis make you do things you'd never want to do?
168>>24766
169This is interesting. I got into hypnosis this past week. Based on my experiences with recorded audio I'd say I don't really make a good subject.
170I tried to make some sort of inductions that relies on AI and record it so I can listen to myself but I can't really seem to make it work. The videos on youtube and hypothesis presented is mighty interesting. 
171My approach was to imagine a robot that follows commands much like a computer. Imagine having that robot respond to a command like "calculate 1+ 1". The robot knows in due time the answer.
172Now you can imagine that you are much like that robot. Calculate 1 + 1. The answer comes to you automatically. See a red dress. and it appears on its own before you. etc ……
173You can know now that it was you simply imaging of being a robot, you can stop imagining it any time you want out of it can't you?
174I'll have a read at the cards posted and try to make better scripts that take advantage of the idea presented more clearly and see if I can get any results.
175
176â–¶Anonymous  05/16/17 (Tue) 21:13:53 No.24803
177>>24796
178>Ericksonian
179Ooh! That was convenient, I was just about to read the stuff Erickson wrote too! Thanks Anon!
180
181â–¶Third  05/16/17 (Tue) 23:51:18 No.24812>>24821 >>24964
182File (hide): 1151b4d3f1db8d3⋯.gif (1.75 MB, 500x500, 1:1, 1480311854046.gif) (h) (u)
183
184>>24758
185The whole point of my process is to make it so they do like it and crave it deeply by the end.
186Her new life was not without increased effort on her part, she was not a terribly good student before I came along.
187I'll make another post about the punishment side, though I rarely need them and tend to use Shame rather than Pain.
188I have no idea how to interpret the last question maybe reword it and try again? It honestly sounds like a bot trying to ask questions about hypnosis.
189>>24766
190This is a very interesting concept, I've heard the name before but never looked deeply into it. Reading the linked archive however has been most informative. I think it'll be worth testing out though I will need to do so on a subject who I have not yet indoctrinated.
191>>24767
192Two points: 1st is that it is indeed manufactured propaganda intended to keep hypnosis at arms length from both the general public and the law. Early hypnotists and even modern hypnotists largely understand that if the full ramifications of hypnosis were to be even partially understood by the general public and/or legal apparatus not only would our favored pasttime become heavily policed and controlled but it would quickly gather the sort of fearmongering seen around more traditional BDSM.
1932nd is that if you haven't ever been hypnotized it can be difficult to really understand the trance state and to put yourself in the mindset of the subject. I started as a sub as well but quickly took that knowledge and became proficient as a dom. Best of luck to your endeavors.
194>>24768
195Short answer: Yes.
196Long answer: Absolutely. In fact that is part of how I test for compliance and effectiveness. If a subject is just "playing along" then they are highly unlikely to do anything major such as breaking off a friendship (I have only done this when the friendship was obviously toxic and/or parasitic) or slightly less major like completely changing the way they dress for a day (I had my second girl wear incredibly skimpy clothes for a week to test her compliance, she was usually the kind to wear boot-cut jeans and flannel shirts rather than halter tops, lacey undies, and jean shorts short enough to see the edges of said undies).
197>>24781
198I made her get a Masters degree when she was originally "only at school to make my parents happy". I've made other girls quit their jobs (so I could set them up with better opportunities but I didn't tell them that part until they'd done it). As to the every day all of my girls (there are 5 currently) spend an hour edging and tasting themselves then they send me a snapchat of themselves kneeling and saying "thank you master". All but one of my girls wears a piece of jewelry I made specifically for them (I'm an amateur gold and silver smith) every day (this is not something to do lightly and safeties should be used, I fucked it up with the first girl and when she lost the ring I'd made her down a stormdrain she had a massive panic attack because not having it meant she would have to disobey me. Good thing was that I was there when it happened and I could diffuse the situation, I changed my methods to prevent a repeat of that.)
199Pic is by Manyaki who is based af
200
201â–¶Third  05/17/17 (Wed) 00:09:57 No.24813>>24840 >>24842 >>24964
202File (hide): f413f1b4030e3e6⋯.jpg (928.97 KB, 5000x3334, 2500:1667, 1462460384996.jpg) (h) (u)
203
204>>24786
205>>24787
206I learned from my first girlfriend, she learned from her dad and books but I learned by experimentation. Mostly on her.
207For absolute beginners I recommend "Pillow Talk" pic related. It's probably the most straightforward book I've read on the subject, written specifically for people with little to no basis in hypnosis. It covers a ton of theory and explains the theory with real-world examples as well as providing a good handful of scripts to put the theory in context.
208The absolute best way to learn is to:
209Research
210Experience
211Practice
212Teach
213>>24792
214Why would I have moral concerns? I'm making these girls' lives objectively better.
215With E I knew full well what I was doing, she was my second girl.
216If by fail-safe mechanism you mean something to free them from my influence in the occasion that I should die then yes, they all have a fail-safe like that. 
217I feel responsible for my girls like a father feels responsible for his daughters, I want them to have happy and productive futures and to endure as little hardship as humanly possible.
218As to the hypnotizing myself bit, I'm nearly immune. Except for my first girlfriend (who is not one of my girls) no one has ever successfully hypnotized me and not for lack of trying.
219As to getting her or one of the other girls to weigh in I might just do that but I'm very protective of both their privacy and my own so I need to think about it.
220>>24795
221>>24796
222That's not at all how it worked but I can see how you might think that. Her begging for more down time was a foreseen and intended result of my process. 
223>>24796 Thank you for the card pdf, they're certainly an amusing bit of hypnosis paraphernalia.
224>>24799
225It can indeed make subject do things they would not have otherwise done or even wanted to do. As I said before, all it takes is time and effort.
226INB4 Post pics of your girls.
227No. Pictures could most certainly be traced back to them or me. As I've said, our privacy is very important to me.
228
229â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 03:28:10 No.24819>>24873
230OP Another question for you
231Do you have any general goal in your life?
232If so, would you mind sharing one?
233This thread was very intriguing thanks OP for initiating it, I'll try to get more into the subject and learn about it. 
234The concept of 'personality death' really puts me off and at the same time as you've said, it can be good for them. I can somehow understand it by viewing it as some accelerated progress of your own self,in the same way you're not the person you were 5 years ago. But to force(?) one on another, I can't easily go with it. Do you mind sharing some of your feelings on this and how you've come to take such decisions?
235
236â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 03:43:01 No.24821>>24838 >>24873
237>>24812
238>it is indeed manufactured propaganda intended to keep hypnosis at arms length from both the general public and the law. Early hypnotists and even modern hypnotists largely understand that if the full ramifications of hypnosis were to be even partially understood by the general public and/or legal apparatus not only would our favored pasttime become heavily policed and controlled but it would quickly gather the sort of fearmongering seen around more traditional BDSM.
239I hesitate to say this straight up isn't true, because conditioning is obviously a very powerful tool and can be applied effectively though successive hypnosis sessions, but when people say that, what they generally mean is that it doesn't work like in the movies. You're not going to carry out an assassination mindlessly or watch in horror as you carry out some nefarious plot, or hear code word and suddenly become the Winter Soldier.
240Don't fool yourself into thinking that the law hasn't studied this sort of thing heavily–and likely still is–but all hypnosis can do is convince you of things and similar. This can be used to make associations and Pavlovian responses to things that can indeed change what you're okay with in the first place, but that's the conditioning at work rather than the hypnosis, hypnosis is just at tool for that.
241In the end, you convinced your girl to take on that life, assuming you aren't roleplaying. You didn't force her to.
242
243â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 08:53:02 No.24838>>24873
244>>24821
245>In the end, you convinced your girl to take on that life, assuming you aren't roleplaying. You didn't force her to.
246It's still kinda sick. At that point of time she could've just as easily taken a turn towards disguising subdom relationships. Her experience was, although pleasurable, not authentic, it was pre-scripted and staged. What it implies is, as long as you take a leap of trust towards a friendly stranger, your life can be driven off by "foot-in-the-door" tactics into a dramatically unexpected experience, fully controlled by said stranger. It maybe doesn't happen like in the movies, but its implications are still way over the head of most people. It's why people usually believe only very suggestive ones get drawn by cults, when it's absolutely not the case, it can be almost anyone.
247
248â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 09:54:44 No.24840>>24873
249>>24813
250Can you give a link to "Pillow Talk" or upload a PDF? I haven't been able to find it.
251I've had a bit of a long project: create a set of files for couples featuring self-improvement (exercising together, end up as muscle-man/muscle-woman "worthy strong mates for each other", studying together "strong mind for strong body", more?) and intense pair-bonding (including a strong desire for each other's scent/touch/voice/cuddling, shared emotional bond strengthened by mutual contact, more?) although the initial files would be more individual-focused (being equally comfortable in your body whether nude or clothed, basic exercise motivation, more?)
252I've been collecting and reading texts on the topic and I've seen mentions of this "Pillow Talk", but the book itself has been elusive. Any help? Any other advice?
253
254â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 11:02:24 No.24842
255File (hide): 076118a1b4bf5f0⋯.jpg (31.3 KB, 705x400, 141:80, thinking-emoji.jpg) (h) (u)
256
257>>24813
258>As to the hypnotizing myself bit, I'm nearly immune. Except for my first girlfriend (who is not one of my girls) no one has ever successfully hypnotized me and not for lack of trying.
259…or are you hypnotized to think that way?
260
261â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 11:20:31 No.24846>>24857 >>24873 >>25853
262Ooooo sharing.
263Not as condition based but I have a few stories if people want to partake of me and my current partner.
264(For the record loved the story)
265>Unpacking boxes while waiting for partner to arrive
266>Haven't seen her in months as international
267>Find a pair of gloves from toy box and plan out a session based around addiction
268>Never wanted to do addiction with her because she was only here for a month at a time
269>goodbyes are painful yo
270>She arrives and we unpack
271>Surprise stuff was always a kink of hers that we didn't get enough time to do
272>put on the gloves
273>"Hey you ever seen this pattern?"
274>Her eyes lock onto the gloves that are on a low glow setting
275>"Not that I can think of" she says
276>"Weird how it glows two colours and then glows a third out of sync. Right?"
277>"yeah.." she says
278>She's been conditioned that when I ask her in a certain tone she replies yes.
279>Begin moving them slowly
280>"but if they're this way you can see the lights getting dimmer right?"
281>"dimmer.. yes.." she started to go blank already
282>"If blue is cold and red is warm then green must be the perfect middle ground. Like relaxation when you're tired."
283>"tired yes.."
284>"After all, such a long trip will take it's toll won't it?"
285>I began lifting the gloves slightly higher to prepare her for a drop
286>"Yess." she said, her mouth hanging after each sound
287>"It's ok, you can relax i'm here now."
288>She smiled "thank you sirrrr"
289>"Good girl." I said as I began moving the lights in a pattern for her.
290>"Remember your spiral?" i said
291>"Always sirr" she said. Stopping at the last word as her eyes opened wide and what was left of her mind from the teasing slipped awa.
292>"That's right baby. Everytime you see these gloves now you feel your spiral taking away all control."
293>"I'm a good girl for my sir." she said. The one phrase that was left in her mind whenever I blanked her.
294>"Always cutie." i said moving the lights up and down to make her blank nod. A pet favourite of mine.
295>"Alwayyysss sirrrrrr" she said blankly smiling in her own bliss bubble.
296>"Now you want to obey don't you?" I said sternly
297>"Always sir.." she said shyly.
298>"Strip so I can see you, after all. Good girls love to show off don't they?"
299>She began stripping "Always sir. I love to be shown off like sirs slut."
300>She only responded like this when I hit her with her spiral as it overpowered her mind completely.
301>"Now, you know that I love teasing you don't you?"
302>"Yes sir. It's good for me to be teased alot. Helps me to get wetter and make sirs cock feel better inside me."
303>Another phrase I taught her in her slut mode.
304>"It's been so long since you sucked me. Isn't it?"
305>She frowned slightly, "Yes sir. Too long…. Good girls love to suck cock."
306>"And now, you know that the more you think about it, the more you want it."
307>"the frown went to frustration "please… sir more… let me suck it more…"
308>I giggled "Kneel and suck"
309>snapping my fingers she shoved me onto the bed and went to work.
310>"Sir it feels amazing. I love sucking your cock sir. Thank you sir." she said
311>Whenever she sucked in her blank space she feels as much pleasure as she can handle each time.
312>As long as she keeps doing it.
313>"Good girl. Just let it happen."
314>She sucked till she felt me getting close.
315>"May I make you cum sir?"
316>I smiled, "Soon. For now sit up and drop back into your spiral."
317>Her eyes fluttered and blanked straight ahead.
318More?
319
320â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 14:05:00 No.24857>>24858
321>>24846
322More.
323
324â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 14:35:21 No.24858>>24859 >>24873
325>>24857
326as you wish milove!
327>I began playing with her nipples
328>she blankly moaned and instinctively put her head on my waist as i did so
329>"That's right, just let your blank mind absorb all that pleasure. Isn't that nice."
330>She half opened her mouth and nodded
331>"that's right. Embrace the blankness now for me."
332>I snapped my fingers and saw her lights go out as she fell to the mattress
333>"That's right. Sink away for me baby. Ready to obey and play but ever so submissive."
334>She does this thing when she goes fully blank where anything that causes arousal makes her twitch.
335>"Good girl, let it sink in. Like a warm familiar feeling. After all, it's happened before hasn't it?"
336>"yeessss Sirrrrr" she said whispering.
337>"Good girl."
338>I checked between her legs.
339>Very wet and moaned as soon as i touched
340>"Good girl. You're ready to be fucked aren't you?"
341>"Need sirr…. more…"
342>"That's right. You need. To be fucked."
343>"Need to be fucked."
344>"in your blank mind it echos. Need. To be Fucked."
345>"blank fucked need."
346>"Good girl. And as soon as I snap my fingers, you'll come back up. Still blank and needing to be fucked. But as my good little slut."
347>She smiled. "I love being a good little slut for sir." she said with a giggle blankly.
348>"That's right. Pleasure." I said with a snap.
349>She moaned and twitched before relaxing back down.
350>"The second I snap my fingers, it's bestial that need for sex. You can't vocalise it. It's all you feel and need. Even touching my cock sends you wild."
351>She nodded breathing heavily, another sign she was ready.
352>I braced myself. *SNAP*
353>Her eyes lit up at the sight of me.
354>"Well?" I said knowingly
355>She leapt into my arms and began furiously kissing
356>"Pheremones" i said smiling as I saw the lust drive her insane
357>Essentially makes her lust more instead of anything else and is like an intoxicant where she can't stop.
358>She sunk her teeth into my neck and ripped streaky lines into my skin as I returned the favours
359>We fucked for what seemed like hours
360>each time we changed positions I gave her another dose of pheremones
361>Always reminding her the intoxicating power of the pheremones
362>She rode me till I felt my world drain away
363>when she's this far gone she wont stop until i've cum as well
364>she returned to normality after a minute or two and me ushering her safe word
365We've been switching almost every day for four months now.
366I've never been happier.
367
368â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 14:53:34 No.24859>>24860 >>24873
369>>24858
370Something you might wanna try is a suggestion called "the global suggestion" which I've read about at
371www.bdsmhypnosis.blogspot.de
372You take your subject under and tell her that from now on she feels in exactly the same way you tell her to feel, even out of trance. This can also be applied to general perception
373and constraints, for example her being unable to move her arms. It'd be very surprising for her if you whisper in her ear "Look how horny you are getting just now. Bet you'd like to touch yourself. Too bad you can't move your arms." when she is wide awake. Then, place her hands very close to her cunt, take a seat and watch her begging. Quite amusing.
374Also, you might want to check out the site I've mentioned; you'll be able to gather some inspiration there.
375
376â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 15:38:23 No.24860
377>>24859
378We do that one quite a bit haha.
379I've been in the scene for 11 years now and she's a book worm so we've been on the ball with readings. I'll send the site you said to her.
380Begging is a weak point for her that we've been working on. When we're switching I beg like a kitten….. but she's a little less vocal from time to time.
381
382â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 18:55:06 No.24870>>24872 >>24932
383How, exactly, does hypnosis work?
384Every source/information on the subject i come across seems to only talk about the results, and not the procedures, and even when atttempting to explain how they do it, some key information is always omitted, like "how to put the subject under" or how to correctly "do" triggers.
385By reading the thread I already have Freya North's book "Pillow Talk". Not much else, though.
386
387â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 19:21:13 No.24872>>24875 >>25000
388>>24870
389I think the majority of ideas that people have about hypnosis are more of role playing sort of things. As in it doesn't necessarily actually have any of the described effects, but with repeated "pretending" then things can actually sort of take hold in a way.
390It's much more effective to do these things in a slow, subversive way if you want real, tangible changes, but of course that comes with a hell of a lot more risk.
391Also there was that other guy too, something about a slave caste.
392''Intelligence wise, ironically it's not rocket science. Things that bimbos stereotypically do also create dumb girls. A funny example, chewing gum does make you a bit dumber.
393http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22150606
394Malnutrition will fuck you over big time. Carb and fats are needed for the brain, but iodine or iron deficiencies can kill up to 20 IQ points.
395Watching TV, especially fast paced TV or reality shows has been solidly linked to decreases in intelligence. An infamous experiment where people from all age groups were told to watch Spongebob Squarepants for 4 months resulted is significant loss in intelligence.
396Activities that release endorphins can screw with memory formation, anything from spankings and BDSM to orgasms.
397Activities such as smoking decrease oxygen to the brain damaging it that way, and drinking alcohol heavily dehydrates portions of the brain damaging it in another way. Bimbos like Brett Rossi keep the tradition strong by drinking while pregnant, so her kids are definitively coming out with IQs barely above 80.
398Having a night job like waitressing, stripping or prostitution… or simply staying up all night slutting it up loses you sleep. Irregular sleep causes brain damage over time.
399Taking drugs like E, THC lollies, or scrips like Ambien and Xanax also kills your brain cells. Although these can do it faster than the bad habits above.
400tl;dr anorexic girls who watch reality TV, drink too much, smoke too much, imbibe in drugs, work "evening jobs", chew bubblegum etc are dumb bimbos BECAUSE they do these things, not the other way around!
401Advanced and nonstandard methods:
402Pesticides/bug bombs will shave 10 IQ points with a single exposure. Fluoride can take off 5 IQ points. Rape has been found to temporarily decrease IQ by 13 points on average, with recovery time being almost a year. Whiplash (car accident term) will lose you 15 IQ points.
403Khat extract, or other amphetamines, will decrease brain mass. As will antipsychotic medication. Methadone, barbituates, cocaine and heroin have all been found to kill CNS neurons or glial cells.
404Hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) is the most extreme and direct way I can think of, you can turn a genius into a retard in a few sessions with this.
405… improving body via surgical procedures is easy, while increasing libido and modifying personality is a whole other ball game.''
406
407â–¶Third  05/17/17 (Wed) 19:24:16 No.24873>>24874 >>24883 >>24895 >>24907 >>25186
408>>24819
409A goal? Personal happiness and the freedom to pursue any and all projects I want. I like making other people happy but usually I prefer to do so in a way that makes me happy as well.
410As to the 'personality death' bit I would say that yes I did force it on my girls each in their own time. Was it hard the first time? Yes, it took me a month to work out how to do it correctly and work up the courage to enact it. It's not something to be done lightly and in doing so I take full responsibility over their lives in a way that most people can't even take over their own lives. 
411That being said I don't exactly "remove" their old personality, there's always a reason I'm drawn to a woman and it's primarily personality. If I just wanted brainless thotties then I'd probably have dozens by now but that simply doesn't interest me. Finding a woman with intellect and a lack of direction, usually coupled with a troubled childhood, and giving her all of the love, attention and direction that she's searched for consciously or unconsciously is what makes me feel more alive than anything else. It's not as if I'm completely erasing who they were, just excising the parts of them that detract from their existence and make them unhappy with themselves. Maybe I'm just rationalizing but objectively they're all much happier, healthier, and more than anything they have a purpose and a place in the world and know that I will love them until such a time as the singular enemy of man takes me from them.
412>>24821
413If this is what you choose to believe then I doubt that anything I say will change your mind.
414>>24838
415I can see why you'd think of it as being sick. Though how on earth was her experience not "authentic"? 
416However you are correct in your assertion that most people don't think it can happen to them, that only those with weak wills can be molded, but all it takes is an equal or greater will and that foot-in-the-door.
417>>24840
418Unfortunately I was only able to find it on Amazon through their kindle service and I'm not sure how to turn kindle files into regular ebook or pdf files. It's not terribly expensive though.
419Your Pair-bonding project sounds interesting and if I had a girl with switchy tendencies who I trusted I'd be interested to try something like that myself. Alas I have not yet found such a woman. (Says the guy with 5 subs, woe is me amirite?)
420>>24846
421>>24858
422A good story my friend. Glad you've found your slice of mortal happiness.
423>>24859
424The "global suggestion" as you put it is fantastically effective when installed correctly and reinforced with use.
425
426â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 19:51:37 No.24874>>24884 >>24921
427>>24873
428have u feminized a dude with hypnosis? i know girls are ur thing but this is my greatest fetish >o<
429
430â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 20:43:16 No.24875>>24876 >>24884 >>25186
431>>24872
432Most people i see talking about hypnosis here don't mention the usage of substances, usually just audio or putting triggers into subjects.
433It also doesn't seem to be a case scenario of "pretend until it comes true". 
434Also, most people get their idea of hypnosis from the whole Las Vegas shows where the hypnotist hypnotizes subjects in front of a live audience into a chicken or cartoons with the spiny-thing. Hence why people think, me included (to some extent), that the subject needs to be willing to be hypnotized.
435
436â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 20:49:04 No.24876>>24878
437>>24875
438>Spiny thing
439Are you trying to say Spiral or Snake? Cause either one of those could apply.
440
441â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 20:57:39 No.24878>>24879
442File (hide): 864795c29435d55⋯.jpg (12.19 KB, 471x265, 471:265, apps.61059.900719926626690….jpg) (h) (u)
443
444>>24876
445I meant the hypnosis wheel. My bad.
446
447â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 20:59:50 No.24879>>24882
448>>24878
449>Hypnosis wheel.
450You're melting my brain.
451
452â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 23:03:52 No.24882
453>>24879
454Can't blame him, it's quite obvious he meant a circular zebra.
455Back to the topic, I'd like to see your opinions about hypnosis and your approaches towards it. To all the inexperienced: What would you like to know? I know I've been figuring for some time how to hypnotize somebody before I actually did it.
456
457â–¶Anonymous  05/17/17 (Wed) 23:33:24 No.24883>>24884
458>>24873
459>"pillow talk" ebook … only able to find it on Amazon
460Could not find it there, link ? author?
461>not sure how to turn kindle files into regular ebook or pdf files
462Install Calibre with the "DeDRM" plugin, import your .mobi file, DRM is automatically removed, share new .mobi or convert it with Calibre first to .epub/PDF
463Thank you OP for this great thread ! Let's become active creators !
464Can I hypnotize myself for self-improvement, if I know the pivot points of my subconsciousness ?
465For example, my mother taught me that as a man I am a potential rapist. So I have very low self esteem and get real weak when in contact with them. I got rewarded for being shy. How do I change core believes/early imprints ?
466The meditators answer is to live aware in the present and decide from moment to moment what you really want. Sounds tiring.
467Does Meditation kill hypnosis ? Can I practice both at the same time, like one in the morning, one in the evening ?
468How do I get rid of my fap habit ? Although I can go easily into trance all the chastity files I tried didn't work at all. This gives me the feeling that hypnosis is only for soft areas.
469>If this is what you choose to believe then I doubt that anything I say will change your mind.
470Sounds like what esoteric cults say when you call them on their claims: "If it doesn't work it's your fault."
471Like the capitalist's dream. Sure, a pizza driver can become a millionaire, but how likely is it ?
472What are the hard limits of hypnosis ?
473How to overcome frustration ?
474
475â–¶Third  05/18/17 (Thu) 00:03:54 No.24884>>24890 >>24904 >>24964
476File (hide): 0662149ea04576a⋯.jpg (257.25 KB, 800x1056, 25:33, cute dynamic.jpg) (h) (u)
477
478>>24874
479No. I'm not into dudes, not even ones with feminine penises. Traps are definitely gay, btw.
480>>24875
481This is what I mean by propaganda. The public view of hypnosis is that it's little more than a parlor trick or psychology aide.
482>>24883
483https://www.amazon.com/Pillow-Talk-Comprehensive-Programming-Instructions/dp/0983416400/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495057250&sr=8-1&keywords=pillow+talk+relyfe
484It's not a .mobi file but rather a .kindle file if I remember right. I'm not on my home computer and I usually use my phone to read kindle books anyways.
485You can hypnotize yourself but self-hypnosis is a strange and difficult road. For self improvement I suggest studying Taoism, Sun Tsu's The Art of War (this version by Thomas Cleary is my absolute favorite: https://www.amazon.com/Art-War-Sun-Tzu/dp/1590302257/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1495057486&sr=8-2&keywords=The+art+of+war), Buddism (not the religious kind just what the Buddha actually taught), and as cheesy and ridiculous as it might sound read The Tao of Badass (torrent here: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/8730550/The_Tao_of_Badass_-_Become_A_Badass_with_Women___4_Bonus_Books_p). The Tao of Badass is probably one of the best beginner level psychology books and self-actualization systems I've ever come across. I learned a lot from it and have had several friends who turned their whole life around after reading it. Don't pay for that shit though, they want like $250 or some such nonsense.
486Your mother sounds like a vicious cunt, no offense. You need to simply work at believing in yourself. Be mindful of when you think in detractive ways and push your boundaries. I was a shy kid but once you start breaking away at that bubble of shyness it gets easier and easier to be more free. 
487Meditation and hypnosis are based in the same basic theories and the feeling of deep meditation is nearly identical to deep trance (for me and the few people I trust to weigh in on it at least). 
488How bad is your fap habit? I have 5 girls at my beck and call but I still fap. Nothing wrong with fapping in my book. Nobody knows how to touch you like you do.
489My experience is that files are nowhere near as powerful as actual hypnosis with a live person. There's so much missing from them that it's impossible to get the full effect. 
490It's hard to argue with people who have bought into obvious propaganda, I'd rather not waste the effort. I'd also rather not get into economics.
491Hard limits for hypnosis are hard to pin down, though you can't get superpowers with hypnosis. I've done some truly weird things with it that I have zero explanation for why or how they worked. My basic statement on it's limits is essentially: If the placebo effect can do it then hypnosis can do it better.
492Frustration is not something to be overcome. Own it. Learn from it. Ask yourself why you're frustrated. Let's say the frustration is "Hypnosis isn't working". Look deeper at it, at what point is it failing. Not falling into trance? Easily distracted in trance? Effects aren't working outside of trance?
493Then focus on that issue and try to resolve it.
494
495â–¶Anonymous  05/18/17 (Thu) 01:47:25 No.24890
496>>24884
497Deep meditation and deep trance are one in the same. What lead me to discovering hypnotism was trying to understand the states of the brain and how they relate to being 'in the zone.' In which athletes describe being able to do very real superhuman things. At least compared to everyone else anyway. 
498I started my research about fifteen years ago, discovered an article about insider secrets for training NFL athletes. Sensory deprivation tanks were used, with recordings of plays being executed to artificial induce this state of mind because its both optimal for learning, as well creating an association with it and playing foot ball.
499The unfortunate part is, as you get older it becomes harder and harder to enter this state of consciousness. Adult-hood requires you to be far more calculating and to maintain routines, as well as be a better long term planner. That's where the hypnosis comes in. Where normally you'd lapse into a deep trance like state naturally in order to better handle a situation and learn from it, you have to put some effort and work into it once your formative years are done.
500
501â–¶Anonsub  05/18/17 (Thu) 03:52:43 No.24895>>25037
502>>24873
503It's a shame there aren't more people skilled in personality death/removal. There would certainly be a call for them, myself being one of those interested. Alcohol, drugs, sure they can inhibit who one is but only as long they're active in the system. Some of us just need that complete, preferably permanent replacement of who and what we are.
504
505â–¶Anonymous  05/18/17 (Thu) 05:11:26 No.24904>>24930 >>25037
506>>24884
507What are several things you would recommend to someone getting into hypnosis for reading preferably online? Have you ever attempted hypnosis while not physically with the person? I'm surprised you don't teach others.
508
509â–¶Anonymous  05/18/17 (Thu) 05:45:17 No.24907>>25037
510>>24873
511>If this is what you choose to believe then I doubt that anything I say will change your mind
512You could try providing some sort of evidence or discussion.
513Anyone familiar with hypnosis can tell you that mind control simply isn't what it is. I don't mean to be confrontational, but this is obvious or the lot of us would be giving out bank accounts to some domme after a few listens.
514
515â–¶Anonymous  05/18/17 (Thu) 08:48:52 No.24921
516>>24874
517(second story guy here)
518I've done it alot. It's pretty fun but I can see why other tists hate it.
519Sissy pets are always fun to have :P
520
521â–¶Anonymous  05/18/17 (Thu) 14:42:30 No.24930>>25032
522>>24904
523(not OP)
524So you want to be hypnotized via text, if I understood you correctly? I wouldn't rely on that. As stated before, you can only get the full experience when you meet the hypnotist in person. What kind of experience do you hop for, exactly?
525
526â–¶Anonymous  05/18/17 (Thu) 15:11:39 No.24932>>24964
527>>24870
528It is mostly about gaining the subject's trust. Once they are sure that you are capable of giving them suggestions which they will carry out, they do. You can do that via the traditional way of talking your subject into relaxation or by appearing very aware of your skills and getting their expectations high. You start by making your subject feel comfortable with you. This is necessary in order to gain their trust and carry out your magic. Keep eye contact, appear relaxed and self-confident. Once that's done, you ask your subject if she is okay with being hypnotized. When she is unsure, tell her some bullshit about it being absolutely safe, as OP stated. Also, your subject might say:"Oh, you know, I think I just can't be hypnotized for this and that personality trait". You react to this with even more bullshit: "Oh, I don't think so. I've hypnotized multiple persons and the ones who had a personality similar to you seemed to react best towards it." You'd get the idea by now, it's about them buying into the image of you, the hypnotist, who is absolutely proficient and can be relied upon. When your subject seems to have bought into this, you start by giving hints and only bits of information about what hypnosis can do, that hypnosis in TV is carried out just for the amusement of others, however there are several other very interesting aspects of hypnosis, etc. Just enough to tease her, not more. You don't want to tell your subject too much, this can decrease interest. 
529I think you get the idea by now. 
530When this part is done, you want to start by offering your subject a place to relax and to do the usual stuff about telling her to breathe slowly and deeply just as if she would want to convince you that she is fast asleep. Then, you can continue by telling her to relax her muscles, begin preferably at her legs and continue upwards slowly. Tell her, that her mind relaxes simultaneously to her body, that every breath just seems to tale some weight off of her shoulders, that she is safe with you right here right now and can relax deeply into this nice and calm state of mind. 
531From there, you'd want to deepen the trance by either counting down, having her imagine that she is standing on a staircase which she will descend by one step everytime you count down a number. Each step will relax her more, you tell her. Then, once you have your subject deep enough, you might want to give her a trigger to go into trance instantly once you say a certain keyphrase or word. Say her, that you are going to wake her up now after which you will take her under again with said keyphrase. This will make the relaxation even deeper and better than before, everytime it happens, you tell her. Do that multiple times. 
532Then, give her a suggestion she will carry out once awake. Preferably a light one for the start to make her believe that you are the real deal. Something lake her nose getting itchy once you say a certain word. Just be creative. 
533After this session, talk with her about her experience, get her interested but do a break of hypnotizing her. You want her to approach you about it, if possible. Then, escalate slowly, but steadily. 
534Get started, do your thing. Find your own style and suggestions. It's mostly about that-.
535
536â–¶Anonymous  05/19/17 (Fri) 02:22:15 No.24964>>25000 >>25037
537>>24749 (OP)
538>>24751
539>>24754
540>>24755
541>>24812
542>>24813
543>>24884
544>>24932
545Scott Adams pls go
546
547â–¶Anonymous  05/19/17 (Fri) 21:42:01 No.25000>>25018 >>25020
548>>24964
549Those posts don't read anything like Scott Adams' writing, nor or they books he suggested in his Hypnosis reading list.
550>>24872
551>but iodine or iron deficiencies can kill up to 20 IQ points.
552No wonder I've been feeling smarter ever since I started correcting my iodine deficiency.
553
554â–¶Anonymous  05/20/17 (Sat) 03:25:51 No.25018>>25156
555File (hide): fc1591c180a802c⋯.jpg (43.81 KB, 709x516, 709:516, CwxYBlHWgAAp5CZ.jpg) (h) (u)
556
557>>25000
558Everyone on /hypno/ is Scott Adams except for you anon
559
560â–¶Anonymous  05/20/17 (Sat) 03:47:35 No.25019
561>>24755
562i want to believe
563
564â–¶Anonymous  05/20/17 (Sat) 04:16:38 No.25020
565File (hide): 5f9f0df17cba3b0⋯.gif (958.72 KB, 448x352, 14:11, BIT4TTM.gif) (h) (u)
566
567>>25000
568And I'm pretty sure she just loves you and likes to play along with your fantasy.
569
570â–¶Anonymous  05/20/17 (Sat) 08:04:23 No.25032
571>>24930
572Actually I figured you can't through text since it wouldn't even involve voice, but I meant perhaps through webcam?
573
574â–¶Third  05/20/17 (Sat) 10:27:01 No.25037>>25267 >>26146
575File (hide): 5a3ccde59d6e393⋯.png (232.53 KB, 1799x1050, 257:150, Third's Guide.png) (h) (u)
576
577>>24895
578It's not hard. You just have to have the willingness to do it. The words are simple but the implications of the action are apparently too heavy for many people.
579>>24904
580Read the attached guide, that's my overall process for brainwashing a subject.
581I might write up a guide for actually hypnotizing a subject later but right now I'm focused on learning this Automatic Imagination modus. There's literally hundreds of guides around already, just start reading and you'll see the common threads. If you get stuck or need help with a specific area then I'd be happy to explain or give an example for it.
582>>24907
583Never said it was mind control as such, it's a powerful conditioning tool. It's effectively only useful for everything and anything the placebo effect can produce. I'm fairly certain they function on the same principles.
584Most internet dommes are incredibly hamfisted and downright hammy with their approaches simply because they a) think that's how they should be doing it and/or b) are shotgunning their approach to cover the widest range of susceptible listeners (ie people who desperately want the fantasies they offer). Even then you will never get the same level of effectiveness from a recording as you would from a live session. Not without some supreme effort on your part, at least.
585>>24964
586It probably won't convince you but I am not Scott Adams. Then again that's likely exactly what Scott Adams would say.
587>>24907
588
589â–¶Anonymous  05/20/17 (Sat) 20:21:09 No.25047>>25049 >>25211
590>>24749 (OP)
591>Why is almost every thread just a request for files? Where are the discussions on hypnosis this board should be for?
592Because we don't have a reliable way for anyone interested to get the files they want easily.
593If we did, we would socially progress past merely sharing or requesting various genres of files to having actual discussions and possibly improving the genres themselves.
594People that just come here to check for files might stick around once their appetite is satisfied and actually contribute something.
595As it stands, this niche being as bad to pirate as it is, is actually stifling the industry.
596We need an easy to use solution, giga was a stupid idea that fractured us even more, the active people "ascended" and left the boards behind save for the giga "add me" threads.
597I will say though, that if you don't want to bother trying to find a permanent solution the unwashed masses can trickle in from without learning to use a vpn or sign up for shit, an educational thread like this is a step in the right direction.
598Next we need an activites thread, to educate lurkers and churn out OC.
599
600â–¶Anonymous  05/20/17 (Sat) 21:09:26 No.25049>>25186 >>25211
601>>25047
602>Next we need an activites thread, to educate lurkers
603Sounds like a good idea. The problem is that most visitors here a the stereotypical single male basement dwellers who live out their fetish alone (listen passively to their programming). So the next step for most would be to change their personality to open up and share their inner life with others (women). As most erotic hypnoses are for male subs and as there are not enough female dommes for them it would help to learn to walk on the other side, to speak the top language.
604kinkuniversity has some instructional clips where they give tips how to top better. Like don't hurry, speak in descriptive sentences… OP said he started as a sub and somehow lost his shyness. Many would profit here if they could do that too. It's a personal change thing and hard to do. Earlier it was said that the first step is to gain their trust. But what if the hypnotist doesn't trust in his own abilities, has low self esteem because he only listened to how be submissive.
605The only activity for subs I can think of is to give feedback to files or ask for free stuff. Their nature is passive.
606Help us to de-program ourselves, to get rid of sissy and findom cancer, have fun in person-to-person hypno-life.
607
608â–¶Anonymous  05/21/17 (Sun) 05:23:21 No.25065>>25211
609>>24749 (OP)
610I have a question. Do you feel as if once one has become consciously aware of the triggers or most of the content of a file or what the hypnotist usually says, that they lose all their power and become inefective?
611Do you initially not go all out with your triggers and programming and have to make sure they enter trance-like states through things like meditation or a lot of content-devoid hypnosis first to make sure they don't ruin their hypnotic experiences by being too aware through them?
612
613â–¶Anonymous  05/22/17 (Mon) 04:21:16 No.25110>>25211
614Every time this thread hits page 2, god kills a kitten.
615
616â–¶Anonymous  05/22/17 (Mon) 05:14:28 No.25112
617>>24754
618I wish a woman would hypnotize me like that.
619
620â–¶Anonymous  05/22/17 (Mon) 07:28:43 No.25116>>25186 >>25211
621Cuck thread
622
623â–¶lurked  05/23/17 (Tue) 11:29:48 No.25149
624I think for the most part hypnotism on the erotic side is being exploited by shitheads looking for paper and cheap fame. Copying scripts doing harm to anyone weak minded or lost. It's threads like this that make digging through all the shit worth it when i get to wandering…So thanks y'all.
625I've been lurking hypnochan for year or two and rarely do i see objective content discussed professionally like this and gives me hope for our community. Being shared by intelligent minds who clearly have good intentions makes it that more pleasurable to read.
626sweet stuff guys
627
628â–¶Anonymous  05/23/17 (Tue) 15:00:15 No.25156>>25411
629>>25018
630If you're Scott Adams why are you not telling me to buy your book?
631Checkmate. Polite Sage.
632
633â–¶Anonymous  05/23/17 (Tue) 22:41:19 No.25168>>25186 >>25211
634>>24749 (OP)
635Once you have, effectively, complete control over somebody, how do you keep things interesting over longer periods of time? I mean, the way you're describing your girls, they're not going anywhere, so how do you not get bored, if you decide of everything they do and think? 
636Don't get me wrong, what you're describing really fascinates me and turns me on. I'm just curious. I'm still pretty young and I, to this day, haven't hypnotized anybody so my way of looking at it may be completely wrong.
637
638â–¶Anonymous  05/24/17 (Wed) 09:52:56 No.25186>>25203 >>25212 >>25411
639>>24873
640> It's not terribly expensive though.
641Can't buy from Amazon anonymously.
642> if I had a girl with switchy tendencies
643If it actually works as planned, I'm not sure if she would still be switchy at the end of the process: another part of it is divergent and strengthened sex roles linked to an unusual reinforcement trigger. The man becomes compulsively masculine/dominant as the woman becomes compulsively feminine/submissive with a slightly odd "who is really on top?" dynamic: the man can delegate almost anything to his woman (even his own actions if such is his will: as an example she reads maps and navigates while he is completely focused on driving amidst traffic and the car follows her directions) and she will carry out her man's will as it becomes her own.  Her wisdom is also valued, but she will not waste her man's time with frivolities.  Both will exist for each other. I live for my mate and for our children. [breathe and repeat while gazing deep into your mate's eyes]
644> (Says the guy with 5 subs, woe is me amirite?)
645You've got an interesting problem from my perspective: you have many women already and I don't think humans can form such deep pair bonds with more than one other at once. Part of the goal is for this to strongly bond both partners. I can't recommend it for you amid concerns that you would end up abandoning some of your slaves who've already been strongly conditioned to need you. That said, the more individual-focused files could be more useful for you and you might be able to adapt some pieces of the main series for your uses. (Or adapt it to bond the slaves together serving you, then bond yourself to the group?)
646I also finally see one problem with what you've done: you're "cheating" your women of their fertility, and, since you chose smart women to break, humanity of their offspring. Consider this as you will; I know that your ethics see this differently than mine. I say "cheating" because whether they would've had children otherwise is unknown, and quite possibly "no" or worse. And "1 guy with 5 women" is a drop in the bucket.
647>>24875
648> the subject needs to be willing to be hypnotized
649For the first trance, yes. Once in trance, "willing" can become … slippery. Hypnosis can't make you do something you don't want to do, but it can change what you want!
650>>25049
651> next step for most would be to change their personality to open up and share their inner life with others (women)
652> a personal change thing
653Exactly what hypnosis is good for, then. Got any ideas?
654> get rid of sissy and findom cancer
655Yes, very yes.
656> have fun in person-to-person hypno-life
657That requires meeting people in person, also difficult for me. Any ideas how to improve that in an increasingly alienated and atomized society?
658>>25116
659If you hate this thread so much, then embrace your fate: go to >>24009 and enjoy the FREE files!
660>>25168
661(I'm not OP, if that's unclear)
662That's my reasoning for making it pair-bonding: you'll never get bored because you are as madly in love with your mate as your mate is with you.
663
664â–¶Anonymous  05/24/17 (Wed) 15:33:48 No.25192>>25212
665Sageing role playing cucks
666
667â–¶hizzo  05/24/17 (Wed) 19:07:01 No.25203>>25212 >>25230
668>>25186
669The pair bonding concept seems like a brillant solution to the problem I was seeing in this type of relationship. Let me say again that I never have done such a thing, so I may be completely missing the point, but isn't there a danger of some kind of mutual destruction with pair bonding? 
670The way I see it, if you program yourself to love your partner(s) as much as you program them, there is no definitive way to prevent you from liking the feeling and programming yourself to love it more and more until you end up gazing at the ceiling next to your partner all day. 
671Perhaps if you are really precise in your wording? Or maybe even delete any knowledge about hypnosis you have? Such a solution would require a long and detailled preparation, and it would need to be tailored to the receiving person. 
672PS: thanks everyone for the constructive discussion, it's the first time a see a place where this topic is discussed so openly.
673
674â–¶Third  05/24/17 (Wed) 23:37:05 No.25211>>25212
675File (hide): 2f11a8f98563f15⋯.jpg (221.32 KB, 685x838, 685:838, tumblr_o91lkvexmC1u10z0lo1….jpg) (h) (u)
676
677>>25047
678I wasn't aware of the giga-ascension thing, but it makes perfect sense. I agree though that we need more threads with information and educational tools.
679>>25049
680>The problem is that most visitors here a the stereotypical single male basement dwellers who live out their fetish alone (listen passively to their programming).
681This. Hypnosis tends to attract largely submissives who want to stop thinking because life is scary and thinking for themselves is scary/hard. The dommes attracted to hypnosis tend towards malignant narcissism and knowledge-hoarding. 
682As to losing my shyness I can take a crack at teaching that but bear in mind that it's not an easy road for anyone.
683Sissy is cancer, as is findom. I completely agree that we need to encourage more people to take their hypnosis into the real world because face-to-face is 100000x better than some file you download from giga. 
684>>25065
685Not at all, however sometimes not knowing that a trigger was installed can have better results. 
686So for files I always recommend pre-listening to see just what kind of programming they're pushing. I've seen files around that say they do one thing but then to do it they try to get you to swear obedience to some domme. 
687With new subjects I'll take them into trance, take my time with deepening them, use a few one-time effects to see how they're reacting and then wake them up. The effects I stick with are usually the classics, hand-sticking, imaginary balloon tied to wrist, forgetting their name, etc because they tie into various states. 
688Awareness isn't really the enemy with face-to-face hypnosis as much as with files or text hypnosis. A skilled hypnotist can certainly work around any awareness a subject might be distracted by. 
689>>25110
690How unfortunate, we will need to keep this thread bumped then.
691>>25116
692Oh shit everybody he called it a "Cuck thread" guess we have to pack it up and go home.
693>>25168
694It's not as if my girls are dumb bimbos that just sit around at home all day waiting to suck my cock. I don't decide what they think as such, rather I decide how they think. They all have careers, friends, hobbies. If you've ever had a girlfriend you should know that drama just happens, even if she's not the one starting it, drama just happens. So with five girls in my life I have a nearly full-time job of guiding them through the various things that come up. Like when my fourth girl lost her job because the manager made advances on her and she was loyal to me and rebuked him. I held her close, told her it would be alright, and called my lawyer. The company settled out of court last year for about $65,000 (don't believe what you hear about million dollar payouts, most of that is just media hype and bs). Life doesn't stop being interesting, if anything having my girls has made life even more interesting.
695As to the sex life it doesn't get boring. Maybe somebody could find women mewling and begging for sex to be boring but I've been doing this for years now and it's still as fresh and sweet as day 1. We do new things, the girls live in two separate houses because it made their commutes easier and made more financial sense than buying a really big house, but 1-2 times a month I get them all together for a weekend and we just have fun. For me a relationship, even the kind I have with my girls, is like a cake, the sex is just icing (tasty, tasty icing), the real bulk of it is the emotional bonds and the friendship we share.
696
697â–¶Third  05/24/17 (Wed) 23:38:22 No.25212>>25214 >>25230
698File (hide): 9fcef36ab31ee96⋯.jpg (1.57 MB, 4324x2883, 4324:2883, 1462338373702.jpg) (h) (u)
699
700>>25211
701>>25186
702What is a free account and a pre-paid visa card?
703Seriously though, why do you need to by anonymous about this?
704I'm sure your system could be worded to allow for a switch mentality. Especially if you already have a "who's really on top?" dynamic worked in. However your system sounds like it's based on the flawed logic of a couple being two halves of a whole with one completing the other. I like the sound of it and would definitely like to see your work, though.
705>You've got an interesting problem from my perspective: you have many women already and I don't think humans can form such deep pair bonds with more than one other at once.
706I've had monogamous relationships before and what I feel for my girls is the same love and affection I felt for the girls I was seeing monogamously. Love isn't a finite resource so much as it is a state of mind where you care deeply for someone and do your best to make their lives better while they do the same for you.
707As to the "cheating" part, I most certainly am not. As a group we are consolidating our finances and preparing for our first child. All but one of my girls would like to bear at least one child and I see no reason not to give them that. As a family of 6, raising children becomes significantly less straining on our finances, even up to 9 children (my current budgetary maximum). If even two of us were to leave our careers to instead focus on our children then we would still have four adults working full time to support us. I plan to exceed our replacement value so don't worry about me cheating humanity of our offspring. 
708>>25192
709Y tho? Even if we are just role-playing (we're not but that's beside the point) why do you feel the need to sage our thread? Is a discussion on hypnosis and its applications (on /hypno/ no less, for shame) so abhorrent to you?
710>>25203
711This is precisely what anti-addiction safeties are for. Would not even be hard to factor in. Likely for full effect the system would need to be tailored for each couple but that could be done through a proxy system of enforcing the idea that the dominant in the relationship would be compelled to learn hypnosis and to practice it safely.
712
713â–¶hizzo  05/25/17 (Thu) 00:56:52 No.25214>>25243
714>>25212
715Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm happy you're enjoying it as much as you are. I was indeed involved in a few relationships, but I never brought up hypnosis, mostly because most of the stuff I saw and read about erotic hypnosis was ridiculously negative, domination stuff (I'm okay with it existing, it's just disproportionate). Thank you for the positive light you have shed on this subject. I'll try it out one of these days.
716
717â–¶Anonymous  05/25/17 (Thu) 11:16:45 No.25230>>25232 >>25243 >>25411
718>>25203
719> danger of some kind of mutual destruction with pair bonding?
720Yes, those are some of the gaps that I'm trying to fill. Suggestions that ensure you can still leave your mate's side and function independently when needed will be necessary. Also, if you like to please your mate and your mate likes to admire your body, how do you wear clothes? Possible solution: Your mate's (and only your mate's) clothes are (at will by conscious thought or unless concentrating on something else) translucent to you, because you know what's underneath. You know on every level that your mate perceives your clothes the same way.
721> until you end up gazing at at the ceiling next to your partner all day
722More like gazing into your mate's beautiful eyes all day. Why stare at the ceiling when your wonderful irresistible mate is right there?
723> Perhaps if you are really precise in your wording?
724Precise wording can still be misinterpreted and I'd prefer to avoid making sessions that require above-above-average intelligence. I'm not even sure my writing style here would be appropriate for the session scripts.
725One balance is that all of the pair-bonding sessions are "trance-together" and use your mate's trance as part of your induction/deepener (and your trance for your mate), so you can't just program yourself to like it more. Trance without your mate gets hard, because you go so much deeper together. The pair-bonding reinforcement triggers are also mutual: eye contact (looking into your mate's eyes implies your mate looking into your eyes), conversation (you enjoy your mate's voice, but the trigger only has effect if you answer so your mate can enjoy your voice too), touch (skin-to-skin contact is mutual by definition), and so on. While you enjoy the tastes of your mate's secretions and body surface, those don't reinforce anything and your mate's scent (you both have an intense aversion to wearing any kind of artificial scent) is more of a pleasant ambiance than a direct effect.
726Another answer is to change both partners' motivations: If you live for your mate and your children, your own pleasure could be less of a temptation? Perhaps also give both a goal in life of making the world better place? (But leaving what "better place" means to individual or shared-with-mate thoughts.)
727Of course, if you have children, their needs would keep you from getting too wrapped up in each other.
728>>25212
729> pre-paid visa card
730Last time I researched that option, they demanded an address before the card would work for online purchases, by "call this number to speak with a representative" which completely defeats the purpose of a pre-paid card for this. It's ok, I'm still in an early research phase on this project.
731> why do you need to by anonymous about this?
732Circumstances. Don't want to be the target of "burn the wizard" by ignorant or corrupt people. Innate (or very-early-imprinted) risk-aversion bordering on paranoia, but I'm functional in day-to-day life.
733> flawed logic of a couple being two halves of a whole with one completing the other
734I don't see this notion as flawed, but would rethink my position if you can explain to my satisfaction how it is flawed. Admitted, it works best for monogamous couples, but I believe that to be the only form that can be universal in a stable human society. (Remember that you are and must be an outlier: unless birth ratios radically change, "5 women/1 man" isn't sustainable on a large scale.)
735> As to the "cheating" part, I most certainly am not.
736That you plan to give them children hadn't been mentioned before, and my research thus far suggested that most people in your position would not. Kudos to you for this. Reproach withdrawn.
737I would probably have gone down about the same path you have if I had had a similar girlfriend introduce this to me in my late teenage years. Hiding it from my parents would have been all kinds of fun. Too bad I was never allowed to have a girlfriend.
738> >>25203
739> anti-addiction safeties
740Interesting, but how to balance that with mutual addiction being part of the appeal? In other words, how to make limited addiction?
741> dominant in the relationship would be compelled to learn hypnosis and to practice it safely
742Why not include at least a basic course on hypnosis in the sessions? Both would learn it.
743
744â–¶hizzo  05/25/17 (Thu) 13:21:04 No.25232>>25244 >>25266 >>25267 >>25269 >>25303
745>>25230
746>More like gazing into your mate's beautiful eyes all day. 
747Very good point
748>Interesting, but how to balance that with mutual addiction being part of the appeal? In other words, how to make limited addiction?
749You perhaps could use some sort of priorities system where the addiction is there but it is not the most important thing. Loving and having a stable life being graded as more important. 
750Also, the addiction could be something that is limited in time for instance, and I could imagine that while you're feeling addicted, you could prevent yourself from doing certain things (like extending the feeling of addiction). 
751>Don't want to be the target of "burn the wizard" by ignorant or corrupt people.
752I don't think this is paranoia at all. Even if the risks are small, the consequences would be horrible, and being non-anon doesn't give that many benefits,it's just easier.
753
754â–¶Anonymous  05/25/17 (Thu) 23:35:29 No.25240>>25242 >>25244 >>25247 >>25266
755Sometimes I get comfortable with this place and then I see this retarded thread and remember the sort of people I'm talking with. It is 8chan after all I should know better than to expect anything else but stupidity.
756
757â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 00:18:36 No.25242>>25244 >>25247
758>>25240
759Sage goes in the email field
760
761â–¶Third  05/26/17 (Fri) 00:57:58 No.25243>>25263 >>25266 >>25267 >>25303 >>26147
762>>25214
763Unfortunately that seems to be the case for a lot of this community. There are a large number of people who push the more negative, destructive hypnosis paradigms. Bimbofication, Sissyfication, Findom, and the like are all coming from a completely different mindset of enjoying the destruction of a human being. I may use hypnosis in a way that some (many?) would see as immoral but objectively my girls' lives are improved and enriched by my involvement in them rather than simply being devolved into mindless sex drones. 
764I do however feel that it is because there are so many subs who desired their own destruction, debasement, and corruption that the dommes in this community steer toward that paradigm. It generates them monetary and social gain to do so, so they do.
765>>25230
766Independent function is one of my points of expertise, I have spent a great deal of time and energy focusing on how to make my girls both independent and obedient. It comes down to setting logic gates, if the situation is this then these rules apply, if the situation is that then these other rules apply. Humans generally like rules to follow, to know how to act in their situation gives them structure and confidence. 
767I do very much like your "invisible clothes" passive suggestion. 
768I'm not sure where you live Anon, but most places I know of couldn't give two shits about hypnosis. Most people laugh when I bring it up, because in the US at least it's kind of a joke, culturally. Some people look at you funny but it's largely just seen as a weird hobby some people do for a living.
769So my logic for a functional couple is not that you have two incomplete people who somehow complete each other, every time I've seen a relationship where one or both of the people involved weren't complete on their own there was significant struggle in the relationship. With two (or more) people who are individuals capable of maintaining their psychological, physical, and social health independently the success rate of the relationship goes up significantly and the people involved tend to be happier. Additionally these are the relationships where I see synergy, where the couple becomes more than the sum of their parts. 
770The largest failure point I've seen in relationships is desperation, where two people who are desperate for a relationship meet they will often bind to each other in a subtractive way. Suppressing pieces of themselves in order to keep their relationship afloat for fear of being alone. If they were capable of being independent then that fear would not exist and they would not need to suppress themselves. 
771Your system, if applied to incomplete couples, might "fix" the dysfunctions of the couples or it might simply hold them together in a worsened dysfunction painted over with a veneer of mutual control.
772That's my take on it anyways.
773Anti-addiction safeties are easy, I set them up with all of my girls and I've even used them to cure other people of actual drug and habitual addictions. By definition an addiction is something someone does repeatedly to their own expense because it either makes them feel good or they have some form of compulsion.
774So let's say I'm making a happy-button trigger. Normally during my process I won't limit the addictiveness because I want it to be as addictive as possible, but afterwards I don't want my girls constantly begging for me to trigger it all the time. So the function I've found most useful is to make the addiction situational. If they're not around me and the trigger is not offered or mentioned then they don't even think about it, the addiction remains dormant and they can focus on whatever they are doing. If they are around me and the trigger has not been offered or mentioned then they merely feel like doing things I want or like might get them rewarded but they still cannot remember that the trigger exists so it's an abstract tug of possible reward. If I offer the trigger the addiction slams them full force, nothing is more important (except a few of the other addictions but that's besides the point) and they'll fall over themselves to do anything to get their fix. I also have a direct counter for this that makes them forget the trigger again (even if I don't do this the minute I'm out of view they'll forget anyways).
775
776â–¶Third  05/26/17 (Fri) 01:03:34 No.25244>>25246 >>25262 >>25266
777File (hide): 01f4c44868fdb7e⋯.jpg (93.03 KB, 377x700, 377:700, 1460153695794.jpg) (h) (u)
778
779>>25232
780This addiction control method is also viable.
781Are you guys really afraid of being outed as hypnotists? I feel like I'm missing something.
782>>25240
783>>25242
784Why though? Do you just enjoy shitting on other people's party or what?
785>retarded thread
786He says about the only thread on /hypno/ with actual discussion beyond "can I get x file pls?".
787If you don't like it there is this great function called thread hiding. Nobody is forcing you to read the thread.
788
789â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 01:20:42 No.25246>>25247 >>25253 >>25258 >>25266
790>>25244
791I dislike circlejerks, and this one is a larger one than that fucking bambi thread(which im proud to say i helped murder)
792
793â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 01:21:45 No.25247>>25253 >>25266
794>>25246
795is 
796>>25242
797but not
798>>25240
799btw, no idea what his deal is
800
801â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 06:35:23 No.25253>>25254 >>25266
802File (hide): f45d53b7ac063c8⋯.jpg (226.73 KB, 680x794, 340:397, 1494368217265.jpg) (h) (u)
803
804>>25246
805>>25247
806How's this a circlejerk? Seems like a decent discussion, mate. Are you so cucked you can't see the difference?
807
808â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 06:41:04 No.25254>>25266
809>>25253
810You all have your hand a the dude to the lefts dick
811
812â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 08:20:41 No.25258
813>>25246
814you are the real mvp remember to add it into your cv.
815shitted up a fetish thread on a fetish board
816
817â–¶hizzo  05/26/17 (Fri) 09:28:41 No.25262>>25268
818>>25244
819>Are you guys really afraid of being outed as hypnotists?
820Afraid is a bit too strong a word, but there is, at least for me, an apprehension. Where I live, hypnotist are linked with  people who desperately want to control and manipulate others (like in the movies). The funny part is, most people don't think hypnosis works, but the image is still present. 
821Add to that my religious family background, who thinks hypnosis is a work of the devil, and yeah, I'm probably never going to say openly that I enjoy hypnosis,which is fine with me.  There are more socially accepted things I do and like, so in day to day life, the subject doesn't really come up.
822
823â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 10:12:39 No.25263>>25268
824>>25243
825I like the way you think of relationships. I agree with you on the underlying processes and needs. 
826Regarding the addictions the girls develop on you I suggest an experiment: Do a prolonged vacation or work trip (I myself find 3 weeks enough for feelings of separation to set in) or so without them and keep subtle tabs on how they are doing. You will notice how badly you rely on their admiration (and are addicted to them) and vice versa. Extrapolate that that for the case of you being run over by a bus. 
827Did you play with the thoughts and feelings if a girl that fits your style and liking would come along and on her own suggested such a take-over, where she would become your slave? Would you take her? Would you take away her memories of her initiative in approaching you? Did you consider memory manipulation and changing memories one way or the other? That should be most effective!
828
829â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 11:01:01 No.25266>>25268 >>25411
830>>25232
831> Loving and having a stable life being graded as more important.
832Of course, your mate and children deserve a stable life. Could that be worked into the pair-bond itself? I live for my mate and for our children. But they also deserve realistic risk-assessment and I need to find a way to express that balance. No point in being so focused on stability that you miss out on opportunities that you should take. Similarly, your mate can't be so focused on cheering you on that bad ideas seem good, but quelling irrational anxiety is important and your mate definitely has a supportive role.
833> I don't think this is paranoia at all.
834Thanks. I'm not crazy.
835>>25240
836If you don't like a thread with actual discussion, then just stay out of this thread and go listen to your cuck files or whatever. You can simply ignore this thread, can't you?
837>>25243
838> if … then …
839I've been trying to avoid explicit rules, due to the high risks of unintended consequences from rule-based behavior in novel situations. They're great for your purposes, though, since you're there to supervise. (Maybe something like: While you always like to be with your mate, there are times when you will need to be apart for the good of both. A little bit of your mate will always be with you inside your mind to keep you company and motivate you to be your very best, but being with your whole mate feels even better.)
840> I do very much like your "invisible clothes" passive suggestion.
841Thanks, although they would not be entirely invisible, but translucent: you always see your mate's clothes (unless your mate really is nude, of course!) but you also see your mate's body (from memory) under the clothes. You can turn it off if you want to see your mate "fully" clothed or if you are trying to concentrate on something else. (From my research thus far, I suspect that these effects use resources shared with general cognition. In other words, you're slightly dumber while seeing "through" your mate's clothes.) This also suggests that at least one of the individual-focused "prep" files should work to improve visualization ability, until you can "draw" at will on your visual field.
842> most places I know of couldn't give two shits … in the US at least it's kind of a joke
843This can be guessed from my language and concerns, so I'm not doxing myself, but I grew up in the USA and in my experience it wasn't treated as a joke.
844>>25244 (I'll come back for more of the actual discussion in another post)
845> Are you guys really afraid of being outed as hypnotists? I feel like I'm missing something.
846The USA doesn't have a monolithic culture. Cultural practices vary across the country. You seem to be in the about half of the American population that lives in the major cities. I'm familiar with the other half. Out there, there are … established interests that are not always friendly, and especially unfriendly towards anything remotely like "kink." The local view of a hypnotist is, at best, a snake-oil salesman who comes through town to do useless weight-loss and stop-smoking seminars, and at worst, a Svengali-like figure seeking to corrupt anyone he can find. The last thing I need is some crooked preacher declaring me (by name) a tool of the devil after realizing that people are finding fulfillment as happy couples instead of listening to his preaching and, thus, giving him less money. 
847>>25247
848If I read that correctly, thanks mod. (A tip for later: 8chan also recognizes >>post markers inside sentences, but there must be another "word" between any two.)
849>>25253
850I feel like I am in a discussion amongst scholars, with an audience of noisy children.
851>>25246 and >>25254 (both of you)
852You don't like this thread? You can just hide it, can't you? You can just ignore us, can't you? Well, can't you?
853
854â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 11:03:03 No.25267>>25268 >>25269
855>>25243 (promised follow-up delivered, tabs are awesome)
856> not that you have two incomplete people who somehow complete each other
857Is not the desire for a partner a hole that having a partner fills? (Philosophical point: I suspect we may be using subtly different definitions of "complete" here.)
858> individuals capable of maintaining their […] health independently
859So the individual-focused "prep" files could need (for universal applicability) to be basically a full self-help encyclopedia. … … … "We chose to do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard."
860> these are the relationships where I see synergy
861Could synergy be suggested? Is it something that people bind up in themselves and can release if "allowed"? Or is it truly lacking, even subconsciously?
862> two people who are desperate for a relationship meet they will often bind to each other in a subtractive way
863So how can the individual-focused "prep" series address this? How to suggest away desperation?
864> Suppressing pieces of themselves in order to keep their relationship afloat for fear of being alone. If they were capable of being independent then that fear would not exist and they would not need to suppress themselves.
865This type of fear sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the fear can be removed, the problem is averted and the relationship turned for the better. I had thought that one purpose of pair-bonding would be to fix this: as you open up and accept more of your mate (and your mate opens up and accepts more of you) such self-suppression fades as it becomes absurd: your mate accepts you as you accept your mate, why suppress anything? In other words, there is no fear because you'll be with your mate, never again alone. Or do you see flaws in this reasoning?
866> might "fix" the dysfunctions of the couples
867Fixing such and making them better is one goal, yes.
868> might simply hold them together in a worsened dysfunction painted over with a veneer of mutual control
869This is pretty much a worst possible outcome in my view. Preventing it is one of my goals and one of the reasons that I plan to limit triggers in the series to mutual events (like eye contact) for reinforcement and the individual's own intent (the "quick return to trance" trigger will not use a phrase at all, but activate when you play a file intending to trance). While this leaves varieties of fun for couples on the proverbial table, I think it reduces the risk of such an undesirable outcome. Then again, these discussions gave me the idea to include at least a basic course in hypnosis in the series, so couples who want hypno-play can do it themselves, possibly with a safety net from the main series? Any triggers you set in your mate also work analogously for your mate on you? Some phrase that either of you can use to erase all triggers that cause actions in both of you? So-called "curses" are impossible to accept and fade as soon as you are out of trance?
870> Anti-addiction safeties are easy. […] By definition an addiction is something someone does repeatedly to their own expense because it either makes them feel good or they have some form of compulsion.
871Well, that removes the "addiction" aspect of my plan: you are prevented from harming yourself because you are as important to your mate as your mate is to you, and you know that harming yourself would hurt your mate. Could this be the solution to the problem >>25232 sees?
872> happy-button trigger
873So do I correctly read that your anti-addiction safeties in this case basically amount to you will remember that I can push your happy button only when I remind you of this and you will forget all about it at all other times until it sticks? Was this more or less the 5th bullet point in >>9848742 in >>25037?  (Ok, so more involved than that, but that gives me something to think about. And it cued memories of some of the PDFs I've collected so far that were more oriented towards therapy than fun. Probably some diamonds in the rough in those.)
874
875â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 11:17:59 No.25268
876>>25262
877> hypnotist are linked with people who desperately want to control and manipulate others
878> thinks hypnosis is a work of the devil
879You can't be me. You posted that while I was composing >>25266 and >>25267 . Yet I am plainly not alone.
880>>25263
881> memory manipulation
882The entire pair-bonding project is basically personality manipulation. I consider permanent memory manipulations (altering history) almost absolutely morally wrong. Even erasing a memory that causes someone great pain is probably not the right answer. (Better to drain that memory of emotion and reduce it to a cold fact: personal history remains true and no longer causes pain.) Then again, "parlor trick" manipulations that end upon waking from trance or some similar certain end are fine. Until you leave this room, you have completely forgotten your name.
883
884â–¶hizzo  05/26/17 (Fri) 11:44:08 No.25269>>25303
885>>25267
886> Could this be the solution to the problem >>25232 sees?
887I can't know for sure, but I would assume that this kind of anti-addiction mechanism only really works if one of the two still is free from control. In the case of mutual hypnosis, I think there would still be a small risk of both partners increasing the addiction of the other, "for their own well being". Again, having never done anything like this, I can just speculate. 
888After thinking about it a bit, I think you have found a good solution :
889>So-called "curses" are impossible to accept and fade as soon as you are out of trance?
890Let me make an (flawed) analogy. In web programming, there was always this issue of people wanting to input text (in a forum for instance) with  formatting.  The easy solution would have been to simple allow people to write html code that would be run by the browser. The issue is that html (hypnosis in this analogy)  is far more powerful than just formatting of text and this implied security problems. Many solutions were proposed,like BBCode and Markdown. What these would essentially do is be a level of abstraction above the  html, only allowing the people to format their messages without risking the security of the site. In the end, the BBCode or the markdown will still be translated to html, but the only by the server. (this is not 100% true, but it fits the analogy better) 
891A potential solution, in my eyes would be to allow each partner to easily influence the other but only in certain circumstances and only in certain ways. Ideally these limits would be formulated positively so that only certain types of suggestion is accepted by both minds. 
892>Yet I am plainly not alone.
893I don't  live in America, but it would seem we both now the same kind of rural thinking. It's not really the peoples fault, they don't know any better. Sometimes I think it's for the best.
894
895â–¶Anonymous  05/26/17 (Fri) 15:29:48 No.25272>>25319
896Threads smell like shit and autism
897
898â–¶Anonymous  05/27/17 (Sat) 12:23:25 No.25303>>25319 >>25411
899>>25232
900> addiction could be something that is limited in time
901>>25243
902> make the addiction situational […] addiction remains dormant […] abstract tug of possible reward […] addiction slams them full force, nothing is more important
903>>25269
904> small risk of both partners increasing the addiction of the other
905These gave me another idea that had to percolate a bit:
906When you are apart from your mate, (aside from having that little bit of your mate in your mind to keep you company and help you focus on what you're doing and encourage you) you have only a vague but reassuring recollection of being together: you know your mate will be there for you later.
907The complicating factor here is that reuniting with your mate is the trigger, so it can't really be "offered" but you only get as much of the effect as is safe in context. (Meet at the airport after one of you returns from a trip? You'll hug each other, maybe kiss, collect luggage, walk off together … and both be on cloud nine all the way home. Home at last after you've both had long days at work? You'll be all over each other unless you have kids, and maybe even then if you consider that "safe" in front of the children.) The strongest parts of the effect also fade as soon as the next effect is feasible, leaving good feelings and a desire to accomplish something, preferably together, be it lasting (like making some durable item) or ephemeral (like making dinner) as long as it has some effect in the real world: video game "achievements" don't count, that's "running" on an imaginary treadmill while actually being a couch potato. (You can cook dinner together, for example, or she can cook while he works on a hobby project or simply reads/studies: learning is a form of accomplishment, but if he studies while she cooks, the dinner conversation will be about what he learned as he shares it with her.)
908A philosophical question is thus raised: If an addiction is something done to one's own harm, and accomplishments are beneficial, is an "addiction" to making accomplishments (and thus making your own and your mate's lives objectively better) logically possible? Or is it a contradiction in terms?
909A practical question is also raised: If learning is an accomplishment, should enduring knowledge be preferred over current events? Or do current events become enduring knowledge as history? How to handle relevance or the lack thereof? Should that even be mentioned? For example, sports scores are objectively useless, but some people see them as valuable and records are kept. Or is "history of sports" not real history somehow? (I'm trying to imagine ways this could go wrong, and one is him recounting the latest batting averages as she sits in rapt attention while both are pleasantly sharing "knowledge" that won't benefit them one iota. The obvious exception being if one or both work as baseball announcers.) These concerns arise from having read Amusing Ourselves to Death, a book which I highly recommend by the way.
910
911â–¶Anonymous  05/27/17 (Sat) 12:23:56 No.25304>>25411
912>>25307 / 9848941 (separate post because this is a different direction of conversation)
913Your reward and punishment triggers have given me an idea for meeting my goal that a pair-bonded couple should be absolutely loyal to each other: tie essentially those to loyalty and betrayal instead of obedience and resistance.
914Installing the "good" triggers should be easy, since that's the path that you and your mate would be normally following anyway.
915Installing the experienced-once "bad" trigger gets … interesting. It would have to be a post-hypnotic script that your mind recalls once, immediately after the session containing it, because crumpling might knock headphones off. (You go blank again for the experience as soon as both you and your mate have removed your headphones.) It will be placed fairly far into the series, since you mentioned that a woman imploding like that is hard for a man to resist just taking her into his arms and telling her it will be alright. Imagine the effect of you did this to your mate by betraying your mate's trust when you already love your mate more than anything else in the world and your mate is now looking at you while crumpled into a silent ball too hurt to even cry. You want to reassure your mate that everything will be okay, but your body is too heavy, too sunk in the despair of having betrayed your mate to speak, much less move or even cry. All you can do is breathe and suffer for the horror of what you have done as you look at your mate as your despair grows with every breath. After the despair reaches the point where you want nothing (not even holding your mate) more than to close your eyes and stop existing, you go blank so no time seems to pass before your mate also goes blank. Your mate going blank before you do only further boosts the despair and helplessness as you consciously perceive (just this once) your mate going blank as your mate's mind breaking because of what you did. Just before you go blank, you recall the next part of the script From now on, whenever you even think about betraying your mate, you will remember how it feels. and no time seems to pass before you find yourselves hugging and Sorry about that, but it was the only way we could ensure that you will always be loyal to your mate. Kiss your mate and all is good again. There would also need to be lots of assurances that that is the only session that will ever do that, and you don't need to listen to it ever again, but it was needed once for the good of both you and your mate.
916On a related note, you mention that regret and shame are great punishments for women, do you think that they will also work for men or should something else be used? Is there one punishment that works equally well for both or is this something that would need to be split? Or give both partners both punishment triggers just to be sure?
917Typographical note: I've been using italicized spoiler text to indicate draft script fragments and similar direct ideas for suggestions. The other text (including non-italic spoilers) is goals, means, details, and other discussions.
918
919â–¶hizzo  05/27/17 (Sat) 23:34:40 No.25319>>25434
920>>25303
921>a desire to accomplish something, preferably together
922This to me feels like a real solution. The essence of what you mean is promoting doing things together (or doing things for the couple) instead of being together. That way, the mere act of being unproductive together is nice, but would never last, because doing things that are positive for the couple is even more rewarding. 
923>If an addiction is something done to one's own harm, and accomplishments are beneficial, is an "addiction" to making accomplishments (and thus making your own and your mate's lives objectively better) logically possible? Or is it a contradiction in terms?
924I think it boils down to a matter of effect the behaviour has on other activities. If the behavior the person is addicted to is healthy and doesn't stop the person from just doing what they need to do at a given time, then it's okay. The issues of addiction arrise when a behavior, even a positive one, becomes disproportionately important. If the person starts learning things everyday for 15 hours, it can be argued that a behavior that was intended to be positive now has adverse effects on all other aspects of the persons life. 
925>should enduring knowledge be preferred over current events? 
926Well, I think that "general, current" knowledge is socially very beneficial, so it shouldn't be stopped completely. I would think that everybody would need to find his/her own balance for that. You could perhaps have one person in the couple "specializing" in current events and the other in general knowledge. If both mates are never to leave each other, you could get nice benefits from the two being able to keep the other up to date in their respective domains. If one needs help, the other would always be there, so it's not necessary for both to know about everything. 
927>do you think that they will also work for men? 
928I am not the recipient of this question, but I do think that on this emotional level, men and women react the same way. Shame maybe expressed differently by men, but it still is probably the emotion that pushes humans forward the most.
929>>25272
930Thank you for making sure we stay on the first page.
931
932â–¶Anonymous  05/28/17 (Sun) 03:01:56 No.25325>>25330
933OP is a monstrous amalgam of self help garbage and exploits the worst qualities of laissez faire social arrangement. 
934The people saging are jealous, though.
935
936â–¶Anonymous  05/28/17 (Sun) 05:01:53 No.25330>>25355
937>>25325
938He's still better than the other namefags in here.
939
940â–¶Anonymous  05/28/17 (Sun) 17:28:45 No.25355>>25381
941>>25330
942everyone one in this thread is fags
943
944â–¶Anonymous  05/29/17 (Mon) 05:54:50 No.25381
945>>25355
946ur mum is fags
947
948â–¶Anonymous  05/29/17 (Mon) 06:14:50 No.25382
949File (hide): de079774180279c⋯.gif (844.81 KB, 500x271, 500:271, nigga.gif) (h) (u)
950
951
952â–¶Anonymous  05/29/17 (Mon) 23:04:53 No.25411>>25434
953File (hide): 03295524fe91ba4⋯.png (10.2 KB, 406x185, 406:185, format text.png) (h) (u)
954
955>>25186
956>>25156
957>>25230
958>>25266
959>>25303
960>>25304
961Please stop using blacked out text. Use any other other formatting. You are not spoiling anything. It is just annoying.
962
963â–¶Anonymous  05/30/17 (Tue) 01:12:29 No.25414>>25427 >>25428 >>25434
964File (hide): c772ffb265b8054⋯.jpg (32.76 KB, 590x550, 59:55, cat.jpg) (h) (u)
965
966I'm about 98% sure everything to do with hypnosis, at least how it's most commonly described, is complete, and utter, snake oil. I wanted to believe, I really did, but I just can't.
967
968â–¶Anonymous  05/30/17 (Tue) 06:22:06 No.25427
969>>25414
970OP's Roleplaying, but Hypnosis is a documented, observable state.
971
972â–¶Anonymous  05/30/17 (Tue) 06:35:31 No.25428
973>>25414
974This is the most accurate description I can conjur:
975It is indeed true that, through manipulative wording, consent to a harmless hypnosis session can slowly be twisted into something else.
976The basis of suggestions working is that the subject is made to believe in them. There are a few avenues for hypnotists then:
9771. Playing off of a person's internal desires and removing any learned helplessness that they've accumulated towards realizing those desires. In this method, the subject is willing and has basically asked the hypnotist to help them.
9782. Introducing hypnosis to a new and unwitting subject, gaining their consent by initially doing parlor tricks and later subversively using manipulative wording to introduce suggestions that reinforce that they like hypnosis, like being hypnotized by the hypnotist. You can get further with this method because it's manipulative. The effectiveness of this option depends on how confident the subject is in their self image, their thoughts about themselves, and how open they are to being changed by outside stimulus.
9793. Abusing a pre-existing trust/respect relationship. If the person already believes in the things that you say, well, isn't that already most of what hypnosis is about?
980Particularly insidious is the combination of methods 2 and 3.
981
982â–¶Anonymous  05/30/17 (Tue) 08:23:51 No.25434>>25464 >>25465
983>>25319
984> the mere act of being unproductive together is nice, but would never last, because doing things that are positive for the couple is even more rewarding
985The catch is that the means I have so far are on a lower level than that: you enjoy your mate's scent, your mate's face and body are simply amazingly beautiful and pleasing to gaze upon, etc. How to make the higher level rewards? Remember a time when you failed, but kept trying until you had finished a difficult task and how good you felt when you had finally succeeded. Let that feeling wash over you and grow stronger while you put that memory back, but you now still feel that amazing sense of accomplishment. You feel this way again whenever your mate accomplishes something for you both. Let the feelings of accomplishment and success grow and wash over you again, twice as strong as before. You feel this way again whenever you accomplish something new for your mate. Let the feeling just sink in a bit. [brief pause] Now let those good feelings of success and achievement wash over you again, ten times as strong as before. You feel this way again every time you accomplish something in the real world by working together with your mate.?
986> The issues of addiction arrise when a behavior, even a positive one, becomes disproportionately important.
987How best to limit this? The goal is that doing things for the couple (especially together) should be essentially bliss, but you and your mate should still be able to hold down day jobs, if doing so is useful for the couple in a pragmatic sense. Not that either of you would hesitate in the slightest to abandon your career to care for your children if childcare costs more than you bring in by working.
988> If both mates are never to leave each other
989That's the main goal, yes. That, and that they will be happy and successful together.
990> not necessary for both to know about everything
991That's a good point, but another goal is "sharing" minds: you feel your mate's thoughts alongside your own and this works because you've simply come to know your mate so well that you can usually finish each other's sentences, and you both feel rewarded for doing so. That you go to sleep every night in your mate's loving embrace while whispering your thoughts and memories to your mate (and listening to your mate's whispers) probably has something to do with this.
992> I am not the recipient of this question
993Nonsense, we're on an imageboard: everyone in the discussion is the recipient of every question they have an answer for.
994>>25411
995> Please stop using blacked out text.
996If you provide a meaningful, well thought out contribution to the discussion in a post along with that request, I will consider changing my formatting.
997> You are not spoiling anything.
998Requiring an active effort to read script fragments prevents someone from processing them subconsciously while just idly reading the thread.
999>>25414
1000> snake oil
1001I've gotten an actual effect from reading an account (by the hypnotist) of a stage hypnosis performance with a particularly suggestible subject. The account walked through a "forget the number 2" routine where the subject answers "1, 3, 4, 5, 6" while counting on fingers and I decided to "try it" on a lark.
1002> "There is no 2."
1003> [counting on fingers] 1, 3, 5, 7, 11 – THE FUCK!?
1004Ok, so it lasted about 10 seconds, and then I was thinking through why? and got that I skipped 2 because duh, 4 because 4 = 2*2, 6 because 6 = 2*3, 8 because 8 = 2*4, 10 because 10 = 2*5 and 9 because 9 = 3*3 = 3^2. There is a "there" there. Much of "most commonly described" is bogus, though. People don't instantly become mindless zombie slaves upon entering trance and don't get me started on the popularity of that depiction.
1005
1006â–¶Anonymous  05/30/17 (Tue) 20:52:04 No.25452
1007About the hard limits of hypnosis: what's the craziest thing you've ever done with it? It would be nice to have more infos about it, for those of us who are also interested in non-sexual hypnosis.
1008
1009â–¶hizzo  05/31/17 (Wed) 01:38:23 No.25464>>25550
1010File (hide): 2e9dadf4feb7769⋯.png (168.26 KB, 800x600, 4:3, couple.png) (h) (u)
1011
1012>>25434
1013Well, this is going to be a long one.
1014>Nonsense, we're on an imageboard
1015I am conscious of this, however, seeing how our discussion is quite deep and nuance is important, I was trying to make it clear that I wasn't the best suited to answer the question. It didn't stop me from answering though. This is quite a complex discussion we're having and I feel the image board format is not really suited for this kind of thing.
1016I know anonymity is something that is important to all of us, but when having these kinds of discussions I think it's quite a pain.
1017Enough whining. Back to the discussion:
1018>How to make the higher level rewards?
1019After thinking about it quite a bit, I think that higher level suggestions are quite a bad idea in your particular case. 
1020I'd like to go on a little tangent in order to illustrate my argument. I am capable of changing, quite radically, my personality in oder to adapt the the person I have in front of me. This is something that I do naturally and it allows me to befriend quite different people. I'd like to use two of my colleagues as examples:
1021- The first colleague is a calm, nice guy, who likes order. He isn't maniac or anything, it's just that he cannot really deal with constant change. He has organized his life with routines and likes to plan everything in advance. He is happily married to a more dynamic woman and they both enjoy each other's company quite a lot. The goal of my colleague in life, what brings him joy, is being able to do the same job everyday, all of his life, and being great at it. 
1022- The second colleague is constantly away, loves unsolvable problems and likes to improvise. He only comes home every second week end and spends this time building things in his house. His wife is also quite energetic and enjoys being independent. This colleague simply loves the feeling of adventure.
1023There is, in my opinion, no way for you to formulate a high level suggestion that fits both couples and still has any meaningful effect. The things that make the people evolve in their career, in their relationships with others and in their knowledge are far too different from person to person to have the ability to steer everybody in a given direction.
1024I still think there may be a solution to all of this, that I describe at the bottom of this post
1025
1026â–¶hizzo  05/31/17 (Wed) 01:39:47 No.25465>>25550 >>26731 >>26741
1027>>25434
1028>How does a person choose long term benefits instead of short term ones ?
1029Granted, this is not a citation, but it's a question that I think needs an answer in order to get to my conclusion. I think that choosing to go with a long term strategy (going to work instead of just looking into your mates eyes) is something that has to be, at least in part, decided by your conscious mind. This decision, of course, can be made much simpler if you tie a positive trigger to it, but your conscious mind still has to break the nice feeling of just "being together" in order to get rewarded later. 
1030>The goal is that doing things for the couple should be essentially bliss
1031Bliss is quite a generic word, and I think the key here is to make the rewards different. Simply being together could give you a sense of acceptance and peace, while doing something for the couple (together (cooking, planing a trip, …)) should reward you with joy and a sense of fulfillment. Doing things for the couple (alone (working, exercising, …)) would give you pride, joy and a sense of fulfillment. That way the mates can enjoy being together, but they're still interested in doing other things. I guess it's all about creating an equilibrium of positive emotions that complete each other.
1032>you've simply come to know your mate so well that you can usually finish each other's sentences
1033I may be taking this comment too literally, but for the sake of discussion, here's why I fundamentally disagree with this statement. This idea of perfect symmetry between the two people is not only unrealistic (mates often being completely different people with different backgrounds), it also undermines the whole point of a couple. To me, the idea of have a mate is so that each one can do things so the other doesn't have to. While I agree that a general agreement on many subjects is important, I think that it would be better if each person in the relationship could admire his/her mate because of their skills or knowledge. This seems to me like a much more powerful way of cementing a couple.
1034>Taking decisions together
1035A point that I haven't seen you bring up is the issue of decision taking. The way you describe your perfectly symbiotic couple, they would never have the courage to say no to their mate. This would mean that, on average, the mate talking first would get the approval of the other, even if the other had a better idea. 
1036I think this is something you should account for.
1037>An idea
1038So, now that I have written all of this, here's an idea I had, that could make all of this work. This is a concept, I'm not even sure it would work, but there it is:
1039Introduce a sort of "review day" in which the mates get together, read a script that stops all addictions and incentivises them to have a constructive and calculated discussion about the relationship. This moment could be used to talk about career, the location of the next vacation or the amount of money they want to save next month. After having agreed on all points, the mates could just read another script that reactivates their addictions, while still having been able to decide what to do. The advantage here is that each couple is given a chance to choose what "they" think is best for them, making the experience so much more personal.
1040What do you think about this solution ?
1041
1042â–¶Anonymous  06/02/17 (Fri) 09:21:05 No.25550>>25735 >>25754
1043>>25464
1044> I know anonymity is something that is important to all of us, but when having these kinds of discussions I think it's quite a pain.
1045I see it as an important advantage: in anonymous discussions, we leave our egos aside and ideas are judged only on their own merits, not the merits of their proponents.
1046> I am capable of changing, quite radically, my personality in oder to adapt the the person I have in front of me.
1047You can't be me, you've posted here while I was composing replies. I even describe it as feeling like a mirror.
1048> steer everybody in a given direction
1049Oh fuck no I don't want to make Brave New World. That's a living hell.
1050>>25465
1051> much more powerful way of cementing a couple
1052There's probably a middle ground, although you're right that perfect symmetry is unachievable.
1053> they would never have the courage to say no to their mate
1054Well, you wouldn't want to just say "no" to your mate, you'd much rather give an explanation because you know that your mate loves the sound of your voice and you like to please your mate. You can disagree, but one of you will eventually convince the other by rational argument.
1055> the mate talking first would get the approval of the other, even if the other had a better idea
1056This was a problem I mentioned in >>25266: your mate can't be so focused on cheering you on that bad ideas seem good. That said, since you enjoy conversation with your mate (it's one of the pair-bond reinforcement triggers, of course you enjoy it) debating decisions and finding consensus should be easy. Ensuring the debates actually reach decisions and don't devolve into filibustering just to enjoy the smile on your mate's face is a different problem.
1057> What do you think about this solution?
1058The problem with that is I'm fairly sure that's not how it works. After reorienting your entire life around your mate and children, I doubt you'll be able to just "switch it off" like that. Which also raises a philosophical question: Even if you can just "switch off" the intense attraction you feel for your mate for "review day," will you still see those decisions as your own afterwards?
1059I'm not sure about the best way to go about it, but I like the idea of pushing people to be more rational in general. Whenever you sit across from your mate, with your arms on top of the table, holding hands with your mate, you feel very calm. You close your eyes as the calm washes over you and you gently squeeze your mate's hands. After the calm washes over you and your mate squeezes your hands, your eyes open and you feel a desire to plan your future with your mate and discuss how best to use each of your means and opportunities to most benefit yourselves as a family. You both remain completely calm until you have finished the discussion and pulled your hands away from your mate's hands.?
1060Also, I see that the pair-bonding concept has gotten quite the response, but the preparation series is also important and it is still a vague outline. So far, this discussion has suggested that the prep series should somehow teach the classical trivium. Before I found this thread, I had the initial idea for an improvement series that included making you (psychologically) comfortable in your own body regardless of clothing or lack thereof, some suggestions that make exercise easier, trance practice, and a lot of ???.
1061Another also, try as I might, there are some parts that I probably can't make entirely generic. Is it possible to just record two voices and have a person in trance follow one and "ignore" the other? That would allow me to have one "body comfort" file, for example, and let the listener's subconscious pick the male or female version.
1062
1063â–¶Anonymous  06/08/17 (Thu) 07:55:40 No.25735>>25782 >>25828
1064File (hide): 631ec2ebf842af1⋯.gif (830.64 KB, 600x600, 1:1, sleepymaid_-_tv.gif) (h) (u)
1065
1066>>25550
1067bumping for great interest
1068
1069â–¶hizzo  06/08/17 (Thu) 21:43:46 No.25754>>25782
1070>>25550
1071>I even describe it as feeling like a mirror.
1072I describe it as facets of myself that I choose to show. I'm slowly learning to have more conscious control over this in order for me to adapt even more. It can sometimes be advantageous to display an exact opposite personality (having a leading personality with a shy person) to achieve your goals. I am impressed again and again at how much people just open up to you if they feel that you are like them.
1073>There's probably a middle ground
1074After giving it a bit more though, I probably have been exaggerating the power of such hypnosis on couples. I guess your files should be more about steering deep feelings in a certain direction rather than being too powerful and specific. This is more achievable, especially for couples where one of the two isn't as responsive to the hypnosis as the other. It also leaves space for the couple to decide things. But then again your product (assuming you are going to sell this program) would be less interesting from a marketing point of view.
1075>I doubt you'll be able to just "switch it off"
1076I perhaps overstated how much I think needs to be switched off. The way you phrase it seems quite reasonable.
1077>Is it possible to just record two voices and have a person in trance follow one and "ignore" the other?
1078It would probably still be a distraction. Perhaps you could record two different audios, each mate having his/her own headphones. The mates would just need to start both files at the same time.
1079You could even do something like "Even though you do not hear it, you know and feel that your mate is listening like you, relaxing like, enjoying this like you, as if you were connected by an invisible bond."
1080
1081â–¶hizzo  06/08/17 (Thu) 21:54:49 No.25756>>25854
1082Being somebody who fluently speaks French and German, I have been quite interested lately about the way different languages influence the vocabulary of the hypnotist. I think that English is quite an ideal language for hypnosis.
1083First of all, English words do not affect each other too much, and the order of the words is quite regular. I assume this makes it easier for a deeply tranced person to understand suggestions. Words in German, for instance, change depending on where in the sentence they are placed.
1084Also, English has quite a lot of synonyms which make repetition of suggestions pretty straight forward. To take German as an example again, I feel that words in German are much more clearly defined and if you use a word to let the subject imagine an effect, then you can only use that word.
1085Do you think that this is true or just me over-exaggerating the effect of language ? I haven't listened to any file in German so it's absolutely possible. I'll try to listen to something in the following days…
1086
1087â–¶Anonymous  06/10/17 (Sat) 09:34:52 No.25782>>25835 >>25854
1088>>25735
1089> that gif
1090Close, but they should be facing each other, start out nude, and not orgasm during trance. Also, that's different from my goals. Mindless obedience is not a goal. And how the hell did they get their shirts off without disturbing the headphones they were wearing?
1091>>25754
1092> steering deep feelings in a certain direction
1093That is exactly the goal for pair-bonding. Specifics are mere supporting details. Your mate is the living ideal of beauty.
1094> (assuming you are going to sell this program)
1095Ah, yes, about that… I can't find a way to directly profit from this while remaining anonymous. Not even Bitcoin. This won't be a "for sale" thing… the only profit I'll get is making the world a better place. Of course "pay it forward" suggestions to share the files with other people you think they can help will be included, but phrased as permission, not pressure.
1096> record two different audios
1097That was close to the original plan and remains the fallback. The only catch is that quadraphonic files will basically need a desktop computer for playback, since most laptops and other devices don't have analog out for rear channels.
1098> still be a distraction
1099At least some authors claim that ignoring distractions is an indicator of trance. So when the voices split, you'll follow your path, but the file becomes gibberish if you're not in trance.
1100> you know and feel that your mate is listening like you
1101I plan to have suggestions like that in the deepeners for the pair-bonding series. Since you're supposed to trance together, looking deeply into your mate's blankly entranced eyes while going deeper both ensures that both partners really do trance together and provides a direct sense of togetherness with your mate, which you will eventually associate with the pleasant feelings of trance. (Just the pleasure, not the actual trance.) This will also help if one is much less responsive to hypnosis than the other: the one still awake in the deepener will bring the other out of trance too. (Then it is time to do more trance practice, what I've found so far suggests that trance is actually a learned skill.)
1102>>25755
1103> easier for a deeply tranced person to understand suggestions
1104Hmmm, this could be an interesting experiment, but I suspect that standard grammar in your first language is probably most effective. The experiment would be to write the script with regular word order and unchanging words, leaving all verbs unconjugated, for example. In German, this would also mean keeping the separable prefixes attached. Try different regular word orders: subject-verb-object, verb-object (if subject can be "you"), object-verb (likewise), subject-object-verb, object-verb-subject, object-subject-verb, verb-subject-object, verb-object-subject. Hmmm, this could be useful for a confusion induction if nothing else.
1105> Do you think that this is true[…]?
1106I don't know. I don't know other languages well enough to consider writing hypnosis scripts in them. The American educational system strikes again.
1107
1108â–¶Anonymous  06/12/17 (Mon) 16:23:36 No.25828>>25836
1109I have a question about touching a person who's under.
1110I can induce things by saying "You will now feel X the moment I touch you", but is adding a sensory element other than hearing good or bad for inducing a deeper state?
1111>>25735
1112This is interesting. Is it even possible to make someone who's under, take their on clothes off? I dont mean making them do it while they're awake, that would be just boring.
1113
1114â–¶hizzo  06/12/17 (Mon) 21:59:06 No.25835>>25875
1115>>25782
1116>Your mate is the living ideal of beauty.
1117Don't you think that the way you formulate these suggestions is too strong? Being so clear and direct could make more people reject the suggestion. And won't the people who accept the suggestion too easily just go down a route towards mindlessness? 
1118Wouldn't it be better to say things like "you enjoy the beauty of your mate. The more you look at your mate, the more you realize how attractive he/she is"
1119I don't know, I may be completely wrong again, but it would seem to me that your sentence is forcing too much.
1120>quadraphonic files will basically need a desktop computer for playback
1121Why not have two separate audio files on two phones and each mate has a pair of headphones? Both mates would need to start the file at the same time of course, but I don't think that's a big issue. 
1122>At least some authors claim that ignoring distractions is an indicator of trance. 
1123I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Ignoring things is an indicator, which is very valuable for a hypnotist (see below). In your case I don't think you need an indicator because nobody needs to know how deep the mates are. There is no hypnotist in the traditional sense. The issue I see is that the subconscious still needs to constantly ignore one voice and listen to the other, which uses resources from the subconscious. It would make for a great induction though. 
1124>Try different regular word orders: subject-verb-object, verb-object (if subject can be "you"), object-verb (likewise), subject-object-verb, object-verb-subject, object-subject-verb, verb-subject-object, verb-object-subject.
1125Indeed, this seems like an awesome idea. Thanks
1126
1127â–¶hizzo  06/12/17 (Mon) 22:00:38 No.25836>>25851
1128>>25828
1129>is adding a sensory element other than hearing good or bad for inducing a deeper state?
1130It really depends on the context and on the person. I think it's important (especially the first time) to ask the person if they are ok with you touching certain parts of their body. What you describe is quite commonly used in some inductions. Here's an example from the Dave Elman induction, that I got from Mark Wiseman's book:
1131Hand drops: raise your partner's hand by the wrist a few inches off their lap. If they are helping you, wiggle the arm a little and tell them to let you do all the work. Once the arm is relaxed, tell them that when you drop it back into their lap they relax twice as deeply, then count 3 and drop the arm. Do this a total of 3 times.
1132Every person uses his senses differently. Some people are visual, others perceive the world more through sounds, smells, touch,… 
1133It could be good to get a feel for what senses the person you are hypnotizing is using most and adapt to that.
1134>Is it even possible to make someone who's under, take their on clothes off?
1135Of course it is, just look at any video from enhancement.co.uk and you'll see how it works.
1136
1137â–¶CuriousOne  06/13/17 (Tue) 04:10:10 No.25841>>25847 >>25854
1138Hello, 
1139 I have always wanted to create a set of tools using hypnosis. When I first discovered hypnosis I tried and failed to install a post hypnotic trigger to hallucinate chibi characters to represent various aspect of my subconscious. The idea was to be able to talk to those little guys ( even if just in my head ) to help access information that I know I know, but have blocked out for one reason or another ( like stress during an exam ) Also to provide a self collaborative effect for creativity. Unfortunately I don't know how to take myself deep enough install such an effect. The best I managed to do was improve grades in one class or another at the cost of another class. Perhaps it was the way I worded it or perhaps it was because I was doing it as self hypnosis, but it didn't work. Because of this I haven't really practiced much hypnosis, that and I have some self trust issues. Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone has heard of this being successful? I still would love to be able to have a trigger that would summon chibi aspects of my self ( like an angel and devil for instance ). Has anyone else tried making tools for improving their functionality? For instance having 'background processes' running, like getting a signal that a person you are talking to is lying by having the back of your hand get itchy or something. ( lying has a lot of body language that is detectable ) . Also I was wondering about someone's earlier statement about how if placebo can do it hypnosis can do it better, I was wondering if stigmata was something that is possible via hypnosis (not that I would want to) or real breast growth / penile growth / body changes. My understanding is that hypnosis deals with the mind, so how does one access the biological aspects? The primary reason I am trying self-hypnosis is because I don't know anyone in person who practices hypnosis. My first and primary exposure to hypnosis was a book titled "Autoconditioning 'The New Way to a Successful Life" by Hornell Hart from 1956, so I figure there may be new methods which are more effective or at least books which are easier to understand. I might give the methods in the book another go as well, I was quite young when I first tried it (middleschool) and now I'm in college. So… any suggestions?
1140
1141â–¶CuriousOne  06/13/17 (Tue) 05:34:56 No.25845
1142Sorry for the double post. I am also a software developer and I was wondering what was needed in the community that I might be able to make?
1143
1144â–¶hizzo  06/13/17 (Tue) 06:15:58 No.25847
1145>>25841
1146>Unfortunately I don't know how to take myself deep enough install such an effect. 
1147Take a look at the Mind Doll program by Talmadge Harper, there's a post about it here. It is about helping you creating a mate. The biggest part of the program focuses on helping you go deep enough and practise your hallucination skills. It could be a good start for you.
1148>The best I managed to do was improve grades in one class or another at the cost of another class.
1149Hypnosis can do a lot of things, and improving your skills is one of them, but I don't think that it can magically allow you to be better everywhere. There's a limit to how much input the brain can process in a day. Hypnosis can just help you focus and maximize this value though. Perhaps making you feel nice and enjoy the learning process as a whole could be a good way to start…
1150>For instance having 'background processes' running
1151Be careful with that one because background processes cost energy. I would assume that detecting lies from everybody would be quite a drain of your resources. The idea is nice though, perhaps make it on demand so that you can just touch a certain part of your body to activate the lie detection? 
1152>how does one access the biological aspects? 
1153As far as I know, hypnosis can only change your perception of the body parts. You can tell yourself that your penis is huge and you'll see a huge penis. You can also influence your behaviour in order to make the desired changes on your body over the long run, but I don't tgink you meant that with your question. 
1154>Any recommendations ?
1155I started getting into erotic hypnosis with Mark Wiseman's The Mind Play Study Guide. Other people may now better books to read about the subject. I would be quite interested too.
1156
1157â–¶Anonymous  06/13/17 (Tue) 07:53:08 No.25851>>25856
1158>>25836
1159>enhancement.co.uk
1160Looks like its ded, anon.
1161Any alterntive?
1162
1163â–¶Anonymous  06/13/17 (Tue) 07:53:52 No.25852
1164Hypnosis and conditioning are real, but unless someone has imprisoned you or can control your sleep pattern, you're in a psychological vulnerable state, they can control your food or other basic needs, or they can slip you psychoactive drugs, as long as you don't let them begin to condition you they can't.
1165Other abuse is possible though if you trust them, gaslighting, emotional manipulation, undermining, cutting you off from your support system, etc.
1166Also, most people can be indoctrinated into a cult, but the mentally ill usually CAN'T be, because it takes going along with the group in order to get love and affection and avoid your entire world hate you, and the mentally ill would probably just kill and not stop killing until they've got the leader lying bloodied at their feet.
1167But my personal feelings about hypnosis are a mix of hate, since I hate the idea of someone ever having control over my mind, but I would be into making someone do something "against their will" if they enjoyed it.
1168
1169â–¶Anonymous  06/13/17 (Tue) 08:58:44 No.25853
1170File (hide): 4d02c0ac5356845⋯.jpg (24.65 KB, 500x500, 1:1, Billy.jpg) (h) (u)
1171
1172>>24846
1173>Thank you sir
1174
1175â–¶Anonymous  06/13/17 (Tue) 09:54:37 No.25854>>25875
1176>>25756
1177It would have a large effect, but the specific challenges will be dependent on the language. As you pointed out, English's amount of synonyms is a key player in this. Granted, I'm not completely fluent in other languages, but files in other languages do notably only have 2 or 3 words to convey certain concepts.
1178>>25782
1179>And how the hell did they get their shirts off without disturbing the headphones they were wearing?
1180Wireless headphones :^)
1181>Not even Bitcoin
1182If you don't know how to make Bitcoin transactions anonymously, people here should be able to help you out.
1183>So when the voices split, you'll follow your path, but the file becomes gibberish if you're not in trance.
1184Then problems arise if one partner can ignore the other path, while one can't. If you're really intent on doing that, maybe make sure they can actually ignore it before having them seriously use that file?
1185>The American educational system strikes again.
1186>implying learning other languages should be mandatory
1187Just wait until google translate works properly.
1188>>25841
1189>or real breast growth / penile growth / body changes
1190No, but it can affect your perception of those things. Placebo, in a traditional medical sense, works by changing your mental perception of pain, not by healing your physical ailments.
1191
1192â–¶hizzo  06/13/17 (Tue) 11:04:39 No.25856>>25859
1193>>25851
1194entrancement.co.uk sorry
1195
1196â–¶Anonymous  06/13/17 (Tue) 17:25:52 No.25859
1197>>25856
1198>entrancement.co.uk
1199Thanks, though it looks 0% legit, oh well.
1200
1201â–¶Anonymous  06/14/17 (Wed) 08:23:54 No.25875>>25876 >>25887
1202>>25835
1203> Don't you think the way you formulate these suggestions is too strong?
1204That's part of why I'm discussing it here.
1205> clear and direct could make more people reject the suggestion
1206Sources I've read say that clear and direct is all the subconscious understands.
1207> go down a route towards mindlessness?
1208Thinking, sentient, human-you sits atop, mostly controls, and is influenced by mindless, instinctual, animal-you. The purpose of suggestions like that is to change that mindless animal-you so its influence will work towards your goals rather than against them. If your mate is the living standard of beauty, you'll find that all others come up short and won't be tempted by them.
1209Put another way, part of you is mindless (I can't "fix" that.) and those types of suggestions are aimed at that mindless part.
1210> "you enjoy the beauty of your mate[…]"
1211Those are a different level and also planned: [in trance with eyes open] You see only your mate, so relaxed, so peaceful. You feel bliss throughout your own body as you look at your wonderful mate and see that the both of you are floating together in a vast, cold emptiness. Your mate's loving warmth keeps the cold at bay and feels indescribably pleasant as you float near your mate. Every curve, every hair, every detail of your mate's body is pleasant and enjoyable. You always like to look at your mate's body. You always remember your mate's body and are able to see your mate even underneath your mate's clothes. Your mate can see your body in the same way. For each other, you are always comfortably nude underneath your clothes. […] Look up a bit more and gaze upon your mate's amazingly beautiful face. Let the wonderful curve of your mate's cheeks, the pretty shape of your mate's chin, and the beautiful forms of your mate's lips, nose and eyes sink in. [pause for deep breath, possibly by tone cue] Your mate's eyes… [another pause] Your mate's eyes are simply beautiful and you enjoy looking deep into your mate's eyes. Every time you make eye contact with your mate and you see that your mate is also looking into your own eyes, everything from this session is reinforced in an instant and the deep emotional bond you share with your mate grows even deeper and stronger. In that moment of eye contact, you feel your mate deep inside yourself, wrapped comfortably in your love as you feel yourself deep inside your mate, wrapped comfortably in your mate's love.
1212> both would need to start at the same time
1213And the two independent phones have to stay synchronized. Over a few minutes, this would probably work. Over longer sessions, small errors in sampling rates will add up and later mutual stimulus segments (if you trance together, why not wake up together?) might not actually happen together.
1214> don't think you need an indicator because nobody needs to know how deep the mates are
1215On the contrary, if the deepeners rely on your mate's trance to deepen your trance, the mates need to know how deep each other is. Also, these types of effects can work as "convincers" that help to convince people that they really can go into trance. Indicators aren't just for the hypnotist.
1216> constantly ignore one voice and listen to the other
1217Not all that much. I'm not planning to have voices split and go completely separate ways, just to have a few words or phrases that are different to match each listener's sex. And I'm not sure that the subconscious would entirely ignore it, since the instruction to follow one voice would also mention that your mate is following the other.
1218> It would make for a great induction though.
1219Would it? I'm not sure how, since this sort of "trick" only works if you are already in trance.
1220>>25854
1221> Wireless headphones
1222…could still be knocked loose by dragging a shirt over them.
1223> don't know how to make Bitcoin transactions anonymously
1224I do know. I also know how limited Bitcoin anonymity actually is. At best, Bitcoin is pseudonymous (your wallet address is a pseudonym) and that last step of turning Bitcoin into something real is the problem. I'm okay with this.
1225> one partner can ignore the other path, while one can't
1226The path divergence and recombination would have to start in the deepener, at a point where either partner failing will cause both to wake up. Since trance itself is a learned skill, the solution to this problem is for the less-skilled partner to practice trance more.
1227> >implying learning other languages should be mandatory
1228It was. Failure to actually educate to a sufficient level is the problem. (How else would I have known about separable prefix verbs? Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch.)
1229
1230â–¶Anonymous  06/14/17 (Wed) 09:21:05 No.25876>>25902
1231>>25875
1232>And the two independent phones have to stay synchronized. Over a few minutes, this would probably work. Over longer sessions, small errors in sampling rates will add up and later mutual stimulus segments
1233I don't think sampling rates should matter, 10 seconds should pass on one phone's file as quickly as 10 seconds pass on another phone's file. Also, I was under the impression that sampling rates were determined by the file, not by the device.
1234>At best, Bitcoin is pseudonymous (your wallet address is a pseudonym) and that last step of turning Bitcoin into something real is the problem. I'm okay with this.
1235You can use a mixer/tumbler so that those transactions given to you cannot be tied to your person when you exchange it for money. All that anyone knows is that you do something which people pay you in bitcoin for.
1236>It was. Failure to actually educate to a sufficient level is the problem
1237>implying it should stay mandatory
1238I'm also not sure exactly how you're going to make sure that any arbitrary couple will know when the other partner is in trance.
1239
1240â–¶hizzo  06/14/17 (Wed) 21:19:01 No.25887>>25902
1241>>25875
1242>Sources I've read say that clear and direct is all the subconscious understands.
1243I used the wrong words here, the French educational system strikes again. I'll try to rephrase my though: The use of absolutes doesn't seem to be a good idea to me. "Your mate is the living ideal of beauty" is a dangerous phrase because I feel it can lead to rejection in quite a lot of cases. If I've been with a person that I love for a few years, I will still think that this person isn't the most beautiful on earth (because it's impossible) so upon hearing this suggestion I might just be like no, my mate isn't.
1244Now, Perhaps I probably took you too literally and you were just trying to make a point. The rest of your script snippets seem really good to me. I just wanted to point it out as a possible hazard.
1245>go down a route towards mindlessness?
1246By that I meant that if you use suggestions that are too absolute and concrete, you won't leave space for the person to choose the way they want to do it, which leads to less freedom of though.
1247I really like the way you described animal-me influencing analytical-me. I only recently learned that these two separate parts of the brain are actually well documented by psychologists. The book Thinking, Fast and Slow was quite an eye-opener for me about that.
1248>Small errors in sampling rates will add up
1249It's not the sampling rate that's the issue, because that's defined by the encoder. If the two files have the same duration, every device should play them equally. The only issue I could see is if some low-end phone or some poorly optimized player isn't able to quite keep up with the file and thus slows playback by like 1% (which is not really noticeable). This would indeed make a difference over a few hours. That being said, processors, even on crappy phones can decode any mp3 with less than 10% of the available processing power and the bitrate of mp3s is so low that IO shouldn't be a problem either. But it's possible.
1250>The mates need to know how deep each other is.
1251How would knowing the depth of your mate change anything ? The file will play in any case, blind to the depth of the mates, isn't it ? Or are you planing to add some more interactive elements to your program ?
1252>Also, these types of effects can work as "convincers"
1253That indeed is a great idea, but beware of the analytical people who will start watching out for the convincer, stopping themselves from going into trance. 
1254>Just to have a few words or phrases that are different to match each listener's sex.
1255That makes sense. I quite like the concept this way and I think it'll work.
1256>It would make for a great induction though.
1257Well, as a kind of confusion induction, both voices telling you to go deeper, but you have to only listen to one. That way the conscious mind keeps focusing on not listening to one voice, preventing it from checking what the voices even say.
1258
1259â–¶Anonymous  06/15/17 (Thu) 11:40:15 No.25902>>25932 >>26052
1260>>25876
1261> sampling rates were determined by the file, not by the device
1262The nominal sampling rate is in the file, but the device's clock may run fast or slow. Two devices are unlikely to have exactly synchronized clocks, especially common phones.
1263> use a mixer/tumbler
1264Yeah, then get charged with money laundering at the rate things are going. I've looked at this quite a bit. There are reasons I didn't jump on the Bitcoin bandwagon early on.
1265>>25887
1266> isn't the most beautiful on earth
1267OK, you've pointed out a subtle flaw. Revised: Your mate is your living ideal of beauty. or Your mate is the living ideal of beauty for you. at least in the earlier sessions. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder after all. :-) One of the goals is to rewire animal-you to prefer your mate over all others. Then animal-you won't tempt analytical-you to stray.
1268> The rest of your script snippets seem really good to me.
1269Thanks. I'm on a right track, then.
1270> suggestions that are too absolute and concrete
1271While this can be a concern, some parts of the mind only deal in absolute and concrete. Abstract thought is a higher-level function.
1272> described animal-me influencing analytical-me
1273One of my goals is for the series to, as much as possible, change only animal-you leaving the human analytical-you untouched. This is actually a sort of an ethical imperative for me, if that makes sense.
1274> difference over a few hours
1275While the sampling rate is declared by the encoder, actual playback is at the mercy of the device's clock. Cheap audio hardware can have significant frequency errors, where "44,100Hz" may actually be 44,122Hz on one device and 44,080Hz on another. These errors are imperceptible, like a tape player that runs just a little too fast or a little too slow, but they can add up over time. With quadraphonic output, it doesn't matter, since all four channels will share the same sample clock. With mixed voices and one path ignored as a trance-effect, it doesn't matter, since only two channels are needed and both mates will hear the same thing.
1276> How would knowing the depth of your mate change anything? The file will play in any case, blind to the depth of the mates, isn't it?
1277Simple, you'll also wake up if you see your mate obviously awake and moving around, just as you'll go deeper into trance if you see your mate entranced. The file playing on anyway doesn't matter much if you both wake up and turn it off, annoyed that you didn't get into trance this time.
1278> start watching out for the convincer
1279This type of convincer is more for the subconscious, you really are following one path over the other rather than listening to both and getting nothing.
1280> I quite like the concept this way
1281Thanks. Now the question is whether the male should follow the higher or lower pitched voices? Or should the split be something other than pitch? Word pace slightly faster for one path? Time shift, such that words in one path start just before words on the other path? Differing volume, such that one mate follows the softer voices?
1282Once I can mix voices like this, I can also mix "you" and "I" to make suggestions that are both given to you and heard as your own. Your/my body is pleasantly heavy. So heavy that you/I want to just lie/sit still and enjoy the relaxing heaviness.
1283Should following one path even be suggested, or should path selection be left to the individual subconscious?
1284> both voices telling you to go deeper
1285I don't think that that's really a proper induction or even deepener. Sources I've read indicate that hypnosis depends on implication for most people. "Relax" works for most, but "go into deeper trance" works only for a few highly-suggestible people. I'm aiming for broad applicability.
1286
1287â–¶Anonymous  06/16/17 (Fri) 07:49:31 No.25932>>26082
1288>>25902
1289>Two devices are unlikely to have exactly synchronized clocks, especially common phones.
1290I highly doubt that this is as much of a problem nowadays.
1291>>25902
1292>then get charged with money laundering at the rate things are going
1293What do you mean by this? I haven't heard about anyone getting charged for it. Hell, I've only seen things move in a more positive direction for cryptocurrencies, with many banks integrating or researching ripple.
1294>There are reasons I didn't jump on the Bitcoin bandwagon early on.
1295Must feel like shit now, then. One of my mates jumped on Litecoin early on and made a killing.
1296
1297â–¶hizzo  06/19/17 (Mon) 19:00:35 No.26052>>26082
1298>>25902
1299 >subtle flaw
1300 Ah, this is exactly what bothered me, but I couldn't put it into words…
1301 >I don't think that that's really a proper induction
1302 I'll take your word for it, just like with all the other points you have made.
1303>Bitcoin
1304I don't know much about bitcoin, but I can say that it would stop non tech-savy people from getting to your files, which is a shame…
1305On the subject of brainwashing as a general concept, I found this podcast on reddit with a hypnotist and a subject who are in a relationship and who talk about it. It's not the most impressive but I quite enjoyed how the subject always naturally agrees with the hypnotist and isn't really able to form an opinion for herself. It really seems like she simply prefers to agree and follow, even when directly asked an question.
1306 http://feeds.feedburner.com/TwoHypChicks
1307
1308â–¶Anonymous  06/20/17 (Tue) 08:38:16 No.26082>>26112 >>26414
1309>>25932
1310> doubt that this is as much of a problem nowadays
1311If anything, it's gotten worse.
1312> I haven't heard about anyone getting charged for it
1313… yet. The blockchain is "forever" and I'm sure various abuses will be used to evade statutes of limitations.
1314> Must feel like shit now, then.
1315Nope, not at all. Risk assessment. There's more to life than money anyway.
1316>>26052
1317> I couldn't put it into words
1318But you did put it into words, at least enough for me to see the problem. What do you think of the revised version? Your mate is your living ideal of beauty.
1319> I'll take your word for it
1320That isn't really my word so much as it's from the various sources I've read, but don't let this stop you from making experiments. You may find something I've missed.
1321> would stop non tech-savy people from getting to your files
1322That's another reason why I'm not too concerned about getting money from this. I'd rather make the world a better place.
1323> I found this podcast
1324I'll need to find time to look into it, then. How long are the episodes?
1325> the subject always naturally agrees with the hypnotist and isn't really able to form an opinion for herself
1326Some people really are like this, hypnosis or no hypnosis. There's a school of thought that hypnosis really can only loosen inhibitions. Under this model, the only effect hypnosis has had on the subject was giving her permission to mirror the hypnotist instead of forming her own opinions. Think of how small children use mimicry as a taunt, and how indignant they can get at being mimicked.
1327 – – 
1328All this is good, but I think that the goal has overshadowed the path so far in these discussions. Before I can fully develop the pair-bonding files, I need the lead-up series, which I'm hoping others can suggest ideas for. Right now I've only got trance practice, psychological body comfort/desire for self-improvement (including exercise), and somehow teaching the classical trivium.
1329Any ideas for other individual-focused items? Or any ideas to "flesh out" the ones I have so far?
1330
1331â–¶hizzo  06/20/17 (Tue) 21:08:26 No.26112>>26123 >>26147
1332>>26082
1333>What do you think of the revised version?
1334I really like it. I'm personally still more on the 'open to interpretation' side of suggestions (perhaps because of my inexperience), but your version manages to be clear and still respect the person's views. So yeah, I dig it.
1335>but don't let this stop you from making experiments. 
1336Oh, never. The thing is, as we discussed before, I don't have anybody to experiment with, and most likely won't have anybody for at least a year (I have reduced my social activities to a minimum because I want to invest as much energy as possible into my job, for the next year). So the only thing I can do, except for reading, watching, thinking, learning, is to experiment with myself. As I am interested in becoming more confident rather than brainwashed, this is not ideal.
1337I tried the bambi files this week end. It was the first time I really tried something like this. Before listening to the files I listed my points of view about all the subjects the file touches. The listening conditions were ideal, I was on a long distance trip in a high speed train, without any possible distractions. After listening to the file, I felt that my views on subjects like cross dressing, dumbing down and hypnotic bliss went from 'meh' to 'I kinda want to go deeper into this, it seems quite awesome'. I am positive I couldn't have felt the change if I hadn't made a conscious effort to think about what was going to happen before and if I didn't think hard (part of me really 'didn't see the point in remembering the session') about what happened and the way the files worked. I will not listen to those files again, even if part of me, of course, really want me to.
1338>How long are the episodes?
1339The one I listened to (Brainwashing Brainstorming) was 30 min long, with the last 5-10min dedicated to doing a 'live' trance at the end, which I didn't find very interesting. 
1340>Some people really are like this, hypnosis or no hypnosis.
1341Absolutely, but I was still impressed by how natural it had become for her to just be happy following. This character trait was, as you point out, in all likelihood already present, but the hypnosis allowed it to become the dominant character trait.
1342>Any ideas for other individual-focused items?
1343I'll think about it, and answer in the next few days.
1344
1345â–¶Anonymous  06/21/17 (Wed) 08:39:23 No.26123>>26141 >>26142
1346>>26112
1347> still more on the 'open to interpretation' side
1348The catch is that animal-you doesn't have the concept of interpretation.
1349> still respect the person's views
1350It has to do that. Different people have different inbuilt notions of beauty, and thus will choose different mates in the first place. Part of how I expect pair-bonding to actually work is that you chose each other in the first place. There had to be something you liked about your mate from the beginning.
1351> experiment with myself
1352Ah yes, the joys of self-hypnosis: [excited] "It worked!" … "Rats, I was in trance."
1353I suspect you'll have more success making recordings and listening to them.
1354> As I am interested in becoming more confident rather than brainwashed, this is not ideal.
1355Now I have to ask you a question: isn't "becoming more confident" a form of brainwashing yourself? Isn't the only real difference the goal rather than the process? These are philosophical questions, please think about them.
1356> I tried the bambi files this week end.
1357Well, at least this'll be a report from someone who has a clue what they're talking about, unlike most of those threads.
1358> Before listening to the files I listed my points of view
1359Good thinking, there.
1360> I felt that my views on subjects like cross dressing, dumbing down and hypnotic bliss went from 'meh' to 'I kinda want to go deeper into this, it seems quite awesome'
1361Uh-oh. But "hypnotic bliss" is a natural effect of deep trance, if my sources are correct. Amnesia is also a natural effect of deep trance, and I plan to rely on it as the primary indicator for "enough" trance practice to continue with the series, as others have done. Suggestions for amnesia and bliss are bad and indicate either a malicious or an incompetent hypnotist.
1362> I am positive I couldn't have felt the change if I hadn't made a conscious effort to think about what was going to happen before …
1363Wow, those files are insidious, then. No surprise they've got a cult going.
1364> … and if I didn't think hard (part of me really 'didn't see the point in remembering the session') about what happened and the way the files worked.
1365You need to get rid of "Bambi" post haste. Someone suggested ViVe's "Deep Clean" http://www.vivehypnosis.de/?p=1980 in the first "Bambi" thread.
1366> I will not listen to those files again, …
1367Bad choice of phrasing. The subconscious doesn't fully recognize negative statements. Better: I will remove those files from my life forever. and I will permanently remove "Bambi" from my mind.
1368And be enthusiastic about "killing Bambi"! "Bambi" isn't a sentient personality, it's a fucking animated blow-up doll that only exists to suck cock. You have higher purposes in life than sucking cock, even if you're a woman.
1369> even if part of me, of course, really want me to.
1370You, really, really, need to get rid of that nascent bimbo personality while it's still a small weed in your mental garden. Suggestion: before using "Deep Clean" write down that you will remove all traces of "Bambi" from your subconscious and will restore all of your memories that "Bambi" has hidden. Write it in every language you know and have the paper in your hand during trance.
1371Write it as a checklist: freeze "Bambi" – kill "Bambi" – remove all traces of "Bambi" from subconscious – restore all memories that "Bambi" has hidden – erase all pink circles – erase all remaining pink mental objects
1372I refuse to stand idly by while the most consistent conversation partner I've had in this thread walks into zombie bimbo hell.
1373> The one I listened to (Brainwashing Brainstorming) was 30 min long
1374If that's representative, I'll have to look into it eventually.
1375> allowed it to become the dominant character trait
1376I suspect that that trait is fairly common, but is thoroughly suppressed from childhood in most people due to how other children react to it. Most children seem to treat mimicry as an attack on their own identity.
1377> I'll think about it
1378Thanks.
1379
1380â–¶hizzo  06/21/17 (Wed) 23:24:28 No.26141>>26147
1381>>26123
1382> Well, at least this'll be a report from someone who has a clue what they're talking about
1383I chose those files for multiple reasons. First of all, people seemed quite happy with them. Secondly, the fact that you can choose which files to put into your playlist allowed me to remove the more "nefarious" parts of the program, just leaving the parts about happiness, forgetting and wanting to wear panties (which is something that really doesn't interest me but I wanted to try something that wasn't for me). Lastly, someone posted a high quality breakdown of each file, detailing what it did and what triggers it gave you.
1384So before listening I knew what was going to happen while still having the surprise of the methodology used, which was great.
1385>But "hypnotic bliss" is a natural effect of deep trance, if my sources are correct. Amnesia is also a natural effect of deep trance
1386This is true but the Bambi files are really devious (Which, to the people who it is for, is a quality). The file gives you a "happy trigger" in the beginning, then uses it every time you are asked to forget something from your life and then tells you something like "do you feel how forgetting things feels nice ?"
1387There is one really nasty thing in the files I listened to. It was along the line of: "you want to listen again, go deeper, and the more you'll wait before listening again, the bigger your need will be". This is the only suggestion that really makes me feel uneasy, but I'll remember it for when I'll practice on others.
1388> Conscious effort
1389I may have overstated that one. When I use the word conscious effort, I mean just that, sitting down, and deciding to think about the files. I did it right after listening so I was still quite dazed, and it took me ten good minutes to remember everything, using the memories I had from the breakdown I referred to earlier as a way to remember everything more clearly.
1390Something I didn't mention is the fact that I didn't quite shut my critical mind down while listening to the file and I decided consciously to wake up before the last part (which was focused on making you forget the session). I still listened to the final part, but wasn't as receptive as I could have been.
1391>Bad choice of phrasing. The subconscious doesn't fully recognize negative statements.
1392Ah. This becomes interesting. To the best of my knowledge, what I'm going to say wasn't influenced by the files. I used a negative statement because it's destined for my conscious mind. The files didn't have a big effect on me and when I say part of me want me to listen to it again, I mean that in the way your subconscious is presenting possibilities to your conscious mind.
1393Everybody is that way. Even when our conscious mind takes decisions, it can only take a decision the subconscious presented to it. This happens all the time, for instance when you think "I could hug this person" or "Doing this would be nice". It's not an urge, it's not a necessity, just a possibility. I am very conscious of my internal processes and the reasons why my subconscious decides to bring certain things to my attention. For now, I think about the session when I'm thinking about hypnosis, and that's not most of my day, but I'll monitor those thoughts in my subconscious.
1394>You, really, really, need to get rid of that nascent bimbo personality while it's still a small weed in your mental garden.
1395Well, do I ? As long as it doesn't influence me to listen to it again, I think I want to keep the feelings and memories intact, to remember how it feels, you know ?
1396>I refuse to stand idly by while the most consistent conversation partner I've had in this thread walks into zombie bimbo hell.
1397I laughed at that one, but thank you for the compliment. I don't know if many people are reading this, perhaps we should continue the discussion with sage ?
1398
1399â–¶hizzo  06/21/17 (Wed) 23:25:12 No.26142>>26148
1400>>26123
1401> isn't "becoming more confident" a form of brainwashing yourself?
1402You are totally right. The thing is, "becoming more confident" is not really what I'm aiming at, but it's what I tell ordinary people. Sorry. My objective is to gain more conscious control over my body and mind in order to always react naturally the way I want to. As I already said, I'm already showing different personalities very naturally so gaining control over that just requires time.
1403This nuance changes everything for me, because brainwashing is automating your reactions away from your conscious mind, instead of giving your analytical part more control. Of course, self-brainwashing also stems from a conscious decision, but I think it's different because it doesn't allow you to improvise with your conscious mind.
1404>I suspect that that trait is fairly common, but is thoroughly suppressed from childhood
1405This hypothesis would indeed explain what I described, and allows us to generalize this to the population. I like it !
1406I'm still thinking about your question.
1407There probably isn't a way for this to happen while you keep your anonymity, but if you know a way and are interested, I'd love to take a look at your scripts and offer constructive criticism.
1408
1409â–¶Anonymous  06/22/17 (Thu) 01:18:46 No.26144>>26146 >>26148
1410Allow me to interrupt with a question.
1411LARPing aside, how possible is it to change someone's personality long-term? My current gf is petty good except for some facets of her personality (stubbornness, for example), that completely ruin an otherwise perfect wife material girl.
1412Can hypnosis done on the regular fix her bullshit?
1413
1414â–¶hizzo  06/22/17 (Thu) 06:31:37 No.26146>>26245
1415>>26144
1416how possible is it to change someone's personality long-term?
1417It's very possible, you just need to define exactly what you want. If stubbornness is what you want to change in her, I guess you don't want to talk with her about it (If she wants you to change her, it would make it easier for you). You could use what OP described here >>25037 as a base, you don't need to do everything, but the first part is a nice way to get started. Then just slowly add suggestions how she just doesn't feel the need to argue with you over less important things.
1418>stubbornness
1419There are reasons for people to be certain ways. Stubbornness often comes from the fact that people fear that, if they let go, they will be seen as weak, loosing. You don't necessarily need hypnosis to change that behavior, some conditioning would also steer her in the right direction if her subconscious understands that. If you use hypnosis, don't forget that you need to change the emotions and the intuitiveness of the reactions so the best way would probably be to just reassure her that giving in to you is a signal of strength, of love and that the more she'll accept your point of view, the more she'll understand that. 
1420Disclaimer again: never actually hypnotized someone except for myself.
1421Might I ask what other facets of her personality you want to see changed ?
1422>Allow me to interrupt with a question.
1423I was slowly thinking we were going to end up alone with the other anon, so thank you for the interruption.
1424
1425â–¶Anonymous  06/22/17 (Thu) 08:43:58 No.26147
1426>>26141
1427> wanted to try something that wasn't for me
1428Fair enough. You mention in >>26112 that it seems to have changed your view on cross dressing from 'meh' to 'it seems quite awesome' which is a red flag for me.
1429> The file gives you a "happy trigger" in the beginning, then uses it every time you are asked to forget something from your life and then tells you something like "do you feel how forgetting things feels nice ?"
1430So I guess it's something like Forget your name. … Good Girl. Doesn't forgetting things just feel so good? … Of course it feels good. Good Girl. ? If reading that made you feel happy, you should now see the problem and have some motivation to get rid of those suggestions. If you've actually forgotten your name, oh crap.
1431> "you want to listen again, go deeper, and the more you'll wait before listening again, the bigger your need will be"
1432So that's the effect a few posts mentioned. On the other hand, something like that could be very good for a trance practice file. After waking, you want to listen to this file again the next time you have a safe opportunity to listen to this file. The more you listen to this file, the more you relax as you learn and practice.
1433> This is the only suggestion that really makes me feel uneasy
1434Get rid of it. I'm serious. You don't want that in your mind. It's an addiction trigger. Used ethically, those can provide beneficial motivation (note that the text I'm considering is worded the next time and should fade if resisted once, and that includes moving on with the series) but the Bambi files appear to be made for an audience that doesn't care about "ethical" at all.
1435> I used a negative statement because it's destined for my conscious mind.
1436The subconscious still hears it. You said I will not listen to the files again. and your subconscious likely hears I will not listen to the files again. Which is exactly what you don't want to do. Better phrasing is I will remove all of the effects of those files from my life forever.
1437> I think about the session when I'm thinking about hypnosis.
1438Careful, you are letting the weed grow.
1439> As long as it doesn't influence me to listen to it again
1440Which is why you need to get rid of "Bambi" sooner rather than later.
1441> I want to keep the feelings and memories intact
1442You can purge "Bambi" and still remember the sessions on an analytical level. >>24523 did it and remarked "Since then, I can remember the actual hypnosis much better."
1443> perhaps we should continue the discussion with sage?
1444No. Better to keep this visible where it might draw in more participants.
1445QFT: >>25243
1446> There are a large number of people who push the more negative, destructive hypnosis paradigms. Bimbofication, Sissyfication, Findom, and the like are all coming from a completely different mindset of enjoying the destruction of a human being.
1447
1448â–¶Anonymous  06/22/17 (Thu) 08:44:09 No.26148>>26149 >>26245
1449>>26142
1450> My objective is to gain more conscious control over my body and mind in order to always react naturally the way I want to.
1451I expect that you'll be disappointed: the conscious mind doesn't work that fast. I've tried this. It just resulted in me always freezing up in social situations. You might be able to convince yourself that your "natural" reactions are the way you want, but that has causation exactly backwards.
1452>This nuance changes everything for me, because brainwashing is automating your reactions away from your conscious mind, instead of giving your analytical part more control. Of course, self-brainwashing also stems from a conscious decision, but I think it's different because it doesn't allow you to improvise with your conscious mind.
1453I believe that this "automation" is a fundamental part of how humans work. To put it in computer terms, your body is directly controlled by a (very large) finite state machine but analytical-you is able to edit the state tables. This is needed for normal interactions, because analytical-you processes information much slower and most people use their state machines to interact. An answer like "let me think about that for a bit" in response to a question is an indicator that the question introduced a state that the state machine can't handle, so it stops and waits for analytical-you to push it along again.
1454Ever thought "I'll do that differently next time." and did? That's analytical-you editing the state tables. What you call "self-brainwashing" is a routine part of being human. :-)
1455That said, some people seem to lack any analytical-self whatsoever. I sometimes wonder about them.
1456> There probably isn't a way for this to happen while you keep your anonymity
1457I can think of several possibilities, but will need to move slowly to retain anonymity. There are even ways for us to (anonymously) prove that we are the same endpoints as this discussion, but it will take some time. I haven't done this sort of anonymous collaboration before and will need to think about it. The expected timeline is weeks to months, at the fastest.
1458> I'd love to take a look at your scripts and offer constructive criticism
1459I'd love to take a look at my scripts too, but that requires actually writing them first. X-D
1460The fragments that I've been posting are basically all that I have so far. I'm planning to run some recordings (including the infamous Bambi recordings) through speech-to-text for additional material, but I have to take all of this one step at a time. For the actual files, I have some ideas for a custom TTS that doesn't suck for trance.
1461>>26144
1462> LARPing aside
1463I don't know about others, but I'm not LARPing.
1464> how possible is it to change someone's personality long-term?
1465Do you mean slow changes over a long term or changes that "stick" for a long time?
1466> some facets of her personality (stubbornness, for example)
1467Careful, this is the kind of conditioning that really depends on choosing a "good" subject. Can you explain more about her stubbornness? Is it related to particular topics? Is it a general difficulty accepting any ideas not her own?
1468> Can hypnosis done on the regular fix her bullshit?
1469Maybe, but some of it might be your bullshit. I don't know enough about your situation yet to say.
1470
1471â–¶Anonymous  06/22/17 (Thu) 12:01:04 No.26149>>26161
1472[pop]YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
1473
1474>>26148
1475>I believe that this "automation" is a fundamental part of how humans work.
1476Relevant video talking about what you're talking about.
1477
1478â–¶hizzo  06/22/17 (Thu) 20:36:15 No.26161>>26224 >>26256 >>26273 >>26274
1479>something like that could be very good for a trance practice file
1480The Bambi files really really show you everything that you can do to get people to go deeper and listen to the files more. The subtle voices in the background, the binaurals, the sound effects, the fact that each trigger word is followed by a sound, the pacing, the order of the suggestions all add something, without being distracting. The person behind those files has, to me at least, done a tremendous job.
1481It would be amazing to have the scripts of the files, perhaps I'll find the time to do it one day.
1482>So I guess it's something like Forget your name. … Good Girl. Doesn't forgetting things just feel so good? … Of course it feels good. Good Girl. ?
1483Yes, the mental image and the (real) sound of a huge bubble are used. You are told to put all of your memories into a bubble, you hear the bubble get bigger and bigger, and then the bubble pops with a loud sound. The rest is like you described.
1484>If reading that made you feel happy, you should now see the problem and have some motivation to get rid of those suggestions.
1485Well, first of all the trigger was something else, more bimbo related and the files didn't have that big an effect on me.
1486>After waking, you want to listen to this file again the next time you have a safe opportunity to listen to this file. The more you listen to this file, the more you relax as you learn and practice.
1487This really is the base of any hypnotist who wants to see the subject again, for good or bad reasons. The Bambi file words this suggestion in a particularly addictive way, but it's true that this is probably one of the most effective ways you can motivate a subject (in the beginning at least) to want to learn to go deeper.
1488>Better phrasing is I will remove all of the effects of those files from my life forever.
1489The absurdity of this statement to my analytical mind (being that absolute is ridiculous) makes it reject it. It's not really possible for me to satisfy both, but I get your point.
1490>You can purge "Bambi" and still remember the sessions on an analytical level. >>24523 did it and remarked "Since then, I can remember the actual hypnosis much better."
1491This convinced me, sad thing I don't have access to headphones in the next few days, but I'll do it. I don't really like the vicious circle this starts of listening to hypnosis to counter hypnosis. Like fire with fire, it sometimes works, but not always.
1492>The conscious mind doesn't work that fast.
1493Indeed, what I mean is to get better at analyzing the situation with my analytical brain, regularly, to assess if I need to adapt my "state machine". I'm already capable of doing this, I just don't do it enough. The key is to do it while listening. It doesn't take long and yes, you'll probably miss out on a sentence, but context is often enough to help you hide this.
1494This, of course, is on top of the long "simulations" I do before engaging in something social and the "debrief" I do after a social situation.
1495>What you call "self-brainwashing" is a routine part of being human. :-)
1496Well, of course, it's the way we interact with our subconscious. We really do have lots of traits in common.
1497>That said, some people seem to lack any analytical-self whatsoever. I sometimes wonder about them.
1498I believe that the analytical self is only awoken when called by the animal-self. If we assume this is true, then their analytical system is only rarely summoned. I suppose it must be nice to just follow your instincts, but I wouldn't want it for myself.
1499>The expected timeline is weeks to months, at the fastest.
1500Well, as I also never have done anything like that, but I'm still interested in doing it. Even if it fails for some reason it'll have been a fun thing to try and to learn doing.
1501>I'd love to take a look at my scripts too, but that requires actually writing them first. X-D
1502Haha, yeah. I don't mean this question to be aggressive, really, but how much hypnosis have you already written in you life ? Seeing that you start such a massive project, one would imagine you have quite some experience writing…
1503>>26149
1504>Relevant video talking about what you're talking about.
1505The video is copy-pasting the book "thinking, fast and slow" while still loosing so much nuance there is in the book. Of course, it's a short YT video, but still. I would recommend this book if the subject is of interest to you, as it really shows how the mind works.
1506
1507â–¶Anonymous  06/23/17 (Fri) 09:24:34 No.26224
1508While I wish I could contribute to this conversation, it's still an interesting read.
1509>>26161
1510>I would recommend this book if the subject is of interest to you, as it really shows how the mind works.
1511Noted. I wish more videos like that mentioned the books they carry their ideas from, they make interesting previews of those books.
1512
1513â–¶Anonymous  06/23/17 (Fri) 17:35:21 No.26237>>26256 >>26273 >>26483 >>26504
1514File (hide): dff63304a51a547⋯.pdf (2.33 MB, For Reference.pdf) (h) (u)
1515
1516Third page has stuff about how hypnosis affects the brain, don't know how true or false.
1517
1518â–¶Anonymous  06/23/17 (Fri) 21:01:31 No.26245>>26273
1519>>26146
1520>>26148
1521> Is it a general difficulty accepting any ideas not her own?
1522Basically, this.
1523She's one of those eternal rebel people who want to go against the flow simply for the sake of being against the flow. Its often harmful to herself since she would rather make the wrong choice if its the unconventional one (Thank god she's not a full blown sjw since that's too mainstream for her).
1524Other than that, its the regular difficulty to admit she's wrong and a tendency to answer no to anything before even considering it.
1525She's down with hypnosis simply because its a very new field for her and I managed to talk he into it.
1526
1527â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 00:07:29 No.26255>>26274
1528File (hide): ceb4cf004da8191⋯.jpg (277.07 KB, 2440x3000, 61:75, Dave_Elman_in_a_radio_netw….jpg) (h) (u)
1529
1530So I've been reading Hypnotherapy by Dave Elman because it's apparently a book of great importance to modern hypnotism. While it has some important information, it lacks the scientific basis and validity for me to have full confidence in it. I've been able to induce hypnotic amnesia in myself, but nothing so fantastic as anesthesia as touted by Elman. Is there any way to overcome my suspicion? I'm about halfway through now, but I'm curious if there is any other worthwhile material that isn't purely conceptual or pseudo-science that might assist in my study of it. I know that Elman recommended a book by a Dr. Henry Munro, and I also assume that James Braid has written extensively on the subject, but I assume a lot of that information is outdated and is now viewed in historical importance rather than scientific.
1531
1532â–¶Third  06/24/17 (Sat) 00:38:52 No.26256>>26257 >>26258 >>26274 >>26321 >>26322
1533>>26161
1534The "Bambi" files seem to be written by a talented and amoral person whose goal is to spread a malicious memetic virus through our community. While I myself am guilty of unethical and amoral practices in some regards this sort of behavior goes beyond the pale. While some might say that consent is given by listening to the files and seeking them out in the first place that isn't entirely true. 
1535A submissive leaning individual might listen to the files because other people who have listened to them say they're great, the best, etc. The techniques used are adapted from the classic Bubble pattern which is absurdly effective, to the point where I've become convinced it has some kind of psychosexual resonance with the human psyche. Combined with binaurals and layered subliminals these files can easily form powerful addictions if given even that first foothold.
1536Now some people might say "wait isn't that exactly what you did to your girls?" and they would be partially right. I did use unethical means to gain control over my girls, however I did so on an individual basis and with great care so as not to damage their existing personality. This file set is instead a shotgun grab everyone who listens to it and isn't strong enough to resist approach which could easily be spun later into either findom, paid files (which many of the infected people would feel compelled to buy), or a plethora of other nefarious ends. 
1537I also would bring up this: What if the normies find out? As I've alluded to in earlier posts we should be doing as much as possible to keep the darker aspects of hypnosis and it's applications from the general public. The potential outcry and demonization of our shared interest would be a devastating blow to the future of psychology in my opinion. This kind of predatory file is exactly the kind of thing that could generate a media firestorm if it gets out of hand. Does anyone know just how many people currently have "bambi" installed in their heads? Are there any related files which encourage the listeners to share "bambi" with their friends and proliferate the files?
1538It's possible I am overreacting but I'd like to get everyone's weigh in on the subject and to voice my own concerns.
1539>>26237
1540Where did you get this? The techniques and program hinted at are of incredible interest to me. Do you know where to find the tapes mentioned in the document or any other information about this program?
1541
1542â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 02:26:00 No.26257
1543>>26256
1544https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/document/cia-rdp96-00788r001700210016-5
1545For more information — try an FOIA request?
1546
1547â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 02:26:44 No.26258>>26259 >>26274
1548[pop]YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
1549
1550>>26256
1551It was a part of that "StargateDataset" thing, and is available on that cia website, via https://www(dot)cia(dot)gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf.
1552The tapes mentioned, I'm gonna be honest are probably lost to time, though that might just be me acting as overly pessimistic. https://www(dot)monroeinstitute(dot)org/ is the current day iteration of what Rob apparently started, though seeing as I'm too far away, I cannot confirm or deny any authenticity to their claims, and I really don't have a ton of money to be spending on such things at the moment.
1553Embed is probably the closest I've found as far as that's concerned. Mostly I just thought the actual section on hypnosis was pretty accurate and explained it well enough for basically anybody to understand.
1554
1555â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 02:36:18 No.26259>>26261
1556>>26258
1557Nature's FOIA request:
1558https://thepiratebay.org/search/gateway%20experience/0/99/0
1559
1560â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 02:41:59 No.26261
1561File (hide): 051f319413dece0⋯.webm (8.49 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, Oöphoi - Back into the Gr….webm) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]
1562
1563>>26259
1564Again reminded to check older things. Thanks a ton anon, curiosity is a-burnin'.
1565
1566â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 09:02:18 No.26273>>26322
1567>>26161
1568> It would be amazing to have the scripts of the files
1569Why do you think I'm planning to run them through speech-to-text? :-)
1570> put all of your memories into a bubble […]
1571Hmm, I wonder if I could turn that another way…
1572Use popping bubbles to quiet your thoughts (each thought as a bubble over your memories and dropped back into your memories when its bubble pops) and ease you into trance, then you find an indestructible bubble and are told to put your analytical mind into that bubble where it will be kept safe and time stands still. How animal-you is supposed to get analytical-you back from that impenetrable bubble is something I'll have to think about before I can use this. Recall that an ethical imperative for me is to alter analytical-you as little as possible, so locking it away (safely) for the duration of a session might be reasonable.
1573> motivate a subject (in the beginning at least) to want to learn to go deeper
1574Read that more closely: the effect of the second trigger The more you listen to this file, the more you relax as you learn and practice. is deeper trance.
1575> The absurdity of this statement to my analytical mind
1576… has no effect on how your subconscious mind processes it.
1577> vicious circle this starts of listening to hypnosis to counter hypnosis
1578I'm sorry that I can't personally vouch for it, but ViVe seems to have a reputation as one of the relative handful of trustworthy hypnotists on the Internet.
1579> you'll probably miss out on a sentence
1580Somewhere I got a meme to be always observant. I don't miss sentences, but sometimes end up asking people to repeat a question, then suddenly cut them off with an answer before they've started to talk again.
1581> This, of course, is on top of the long "simulations" I do before engaging in something social and "debrief" I do after a social situation.
1582You can't be me. You've said you live on a different continent.
1583> their analytical system in only rarely summoned
1584The question is: are we simply neuroatypical or have we acquired memes for always-on analysis? If the latter, then this "aware" state can be taught, and more importantly, suggested. Hmmmm…
1585> how much hypnosis have you already written in you life ?
1586None. :-D
1587> Seeing that you start such a massive project, one would imagine you have quite some experience writing…
1588I've said I'm still in an early research phase of the project.
1589"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." —— Ancient Chinese proverb
1590>>26237
1591> stuff about how hypnosis affects the brain
1592I believe that most of that has since been found to rest on extremely shaky foundations, at best.
1593>>26245
1594> tendency to answer no to anything before even considering it
1595At first glance, this is probably the best route to attack your problem. Does she enjoy thinking? If she's a stubborn bimbo, she won't be worth the trouble. If she enjoys thinking, make carefully thinking things through feel good for her and the problem may solve itself.
1596
1597â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 09:02:29 No.26274>>26310 >>26385
1598>>26255
1599> nothing so fantastic as anesthesia
1600That can't be tested in self-hypnosis. If it works, you'll be too relaxed and entranced to test that it works.
1601>>26256
1602> seem to be written by a talented and amoral person
1603I mostly concur, but need to make clear the difference between amoral, which is neutrality, and immoral, which is evil. Tools are inherently amoral: it is the use to which the tool is put that draws laud or reproach.
1604> goal is to spread a malicious memetic virus
1605There is another possibility: the author of the "Bambi" files may be an individual or group very far into the bimbo hypnosis fetish, far enough that they can't see how those files could be anything but great. Some reports mentioned that the files seem to contain pieces of a wide variety of other hypnosis fetish files, which could support a hypothesis that these are "brainwashing by remote control" and the author or authors are themselves operating from the bottom of a deep hole.
1606> classic Bubble pattern which is absurdly effective
1607Can you provide more information about the Bubble pattern? I haven't found much about it so far, but I haven't yet sorted through the spam that searching for "hypnosis bubble pattern" finds. I hate SEO with the burning rage of a thousand stars.
1608> I did use unethical means to gain control over my girls
1609Yet I can't offer reproach because you have done so for their own benefit and the world is arguably a better place due to your acts. Indeed, your acts have come at significant cost to you, though you may not recognize it, or you may consider it worth the rewards you reap.
1610> with great care so as not to damage their existing personality
1611This makes your acts almost ethical in my view. The only arguable issue is the lack of informed consent at the outset. (Of course I would consider this 100% ethical with informed consent: I'm planning something similar!) It also makes the file set even worse: the apparent intent is to completely erase the host personality, leaving only the "Bambi" blow-up doll.
1612> isn't strong enough to resist
1613I really don't like this metaphor. I believe it to be dangerously inaccurate and misleading. "Strength" doesn't really make sense in this context.
1614> … approach which could be easily spun later into either findom, paid files […], or a plethora of other nefarious ends.
1615The current arc seems to be going further into "living fuckdoll" rather than any of those. It's possible that the files are someone's effort to recruit more slaves, but Bambis are probably only useful for sucking cock, which really isn't that useful when you get down to it. It's also possible that Bambi is an intermediate step in a further transformation, kinda like the two-step personality replacement you did on your girls. I doubt Bambi could possibly offer any resistance to further transformation, especially if some of her triggers are used.
1616> What if the normies find out?
1617That's another possibility: the authors are evil and are trying to blow up hypnosis for reasons of their own. This is something I was alluding to with my earlier "burn the wizard" remark.
1618> how many people currently have "bambi" installed in their heads?
1619No reliable way to know. Also think about people like >>26161 who didn't have someone to convince them to root out that weed and are still growing it.
1620> files which encourage the listeners to share "bambi"
1621None that I know of, yet. There is however a "Bambi Cult" that's been started and at least a few posts suggesting such sharing on this board. It's likely a matter of time, but "Bambi" can't string 5 words together, so I don't know how well "Bambi" can spread anything other than genital herpes.
1622> It's possible I am overreacting
1623With the limited information I have, I don't see an overreaction here.
1624Remember: Calm. … Panic only makes things worse. … Calm.
1625Writing this, I realized something: I'll admit at this point that I intend for the self-improvement and pair-bonding series to be memetic viruses, but their spread will depend on improving their host's lives. (The suggestions to share the files will be conditional on you believing that the files will improve the recipient's life.)
1626> Where did you get this?
1627>>26258
1628> That's a topic for another post, later. Sorry, but that's a big topic all by itself. "Hemi-Sync" was enough to produce this answer. "Stargate" makes it bigger.
1629
1630â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 10:26:49 No.26275>>26322 >>26350
1631Not to be captain obvious or anything, but the more you hype up this "Bambi" thing, the more people are going to want to try it.
1632Looking through it, it's just common bimbo stuff.
1633Yeah, a bit longer, yeah a bit more redundancies, but this is just the same stuff you see commonly with this fetish.
1634Honestly I'm more curious as to why you guys have such an issue and are treating it like some deathcult when there are thousands of other audio files created with the same intent.
1635It's above average for effort(binaurals + echos) but as far as content goes "meh".
1636Problem with bimbo audio files is that you  have to really want to engage in this bimbo shit to even go for it anwyays as it always emphasizes quick blank-snaps over real depth. 
1637Just treat it like all the other bimbo audio clips and recognize it's just slightly above average as far as production goes.
1638
1639â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 17:10:47 No.26286
1640Any more storys? Man OP's story tickled my fancy.
1641
1642â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 17:19:28 No.26287>>26288
1643Hypno has been a passion for the past 10 years or so. I sometimes fully trance, but it doesn't happen with all files.
1644I strongly recommend female orgasm by Lady Rio (it is a free file) for any beginner. There won't be any strong trance because the induction is short but the feelings will be pleasant.
1645Anyway, I tried this Bambi stuff since there was so much talk about it. The first program of  ten files did put me into a deep trance, although the triggers barely worked. The amnesia did not happen at all. The pleasure from the GG trigger was non existent. However I must say the files are very well edited and the sound effects accompanying the TTS voice are high quality.
1646The 2nd set of 5 files (called fuckdoll brainwashing… cute) was on a whole other level. I went into a deep trance and I must admit, the amnesia triggers were truly effective since I am unable to remember any of it. It is impressive. I can only say how I felt afterwards: totally at peace, incredibly relaxed, as if I had received a massage.
1647
1648â–¶Anonymous  06/24/17 (Sat) 17:50:46 No.26288
1649>>26287
1650Holy shit mate. You made me realize that i'm in this for 10 years too. Since like, 2007, i think, when i first heard Isabella files. It has been a long journey.
1651
1652â–¶Anonymous  06/25/17 (Sun) 05:28:07 No.26310>>26351
1653>>26274
1654What Elman argues is that hypnotism doesn't necessarily require a deep state of relaxation, but simply suspension of disbelief. I will say that I have a much higher pain tolerance after employing some of the techniques, but it's simply just that. Things hurt the same, I just don't mind it unless I feel I am at risk. Should I go to an actual hypnotist so I can understand what the experience of being hypnotized is like?
1655
1656â–¶hizzo  06/25/17 (Sun) 12:13:10 No.26321>>26350 >>26365
1657>>26256
1658>This kind of predatory file is exactly the kind of thing that could generate a media firestorm if it gets out of hand.
1659As the anon has said, the way things are now, most bambis shouldn't be really able to share the program effectively. What I fear is one of two scenarios :
16601. Some ill-intentioned person starts publishing the files in a repackaged form, freely, to the general public
16612. Somebody (not necessarily the creator) creates a new bambi file that compells all the bambis to share the program. 
1662I don't even know if it's such a good idea to write these ideas down…
1663
1664â–¶hizzo  06/25/17 (Sun) 12:18:54 No.26322>>26350 >>26351 >>26365
1665>>26256
1666I think the Bambi files truly puts an issue into the light: We, hypno community, who are aware of dangers and risks, want to be able to experiment, learn and perfect ourselves. The issue is the more we collaborate, share and discuss, the bigger the risk of getting unwanted, negative attention becomes. I feel that everyone who wants to get somewhere with hypnosis has to reinvent the wheel and that sucks. I hate that. I would love to be able to just discuss scripts and techniques with everyone freely to avoid making the same beginner mistakes everybody does. This would also allow us, as a community, to go much deeper in our understanding of things and our capabilities.
1667However, I think we shouldn't do that in the open, because of the risks you describe, OP. 
1668The only compromise I think would work, is a kind of closed group, akin to private torrent trackers. Perhaps in the form of a forum where you have levels of access, everyone having access to discussions about self-impovement and vanilla things and slowly gaining access through merit to more "dangerous" discussions. There would be no file exchange, just discussion about scripts and techniques. I wouldn't even really know how to build such a thing, but it could be a nice idea.
1669>>26273
1670>Why do you think I'm planning to run them through speech-to-text? :-)
1671Aaand you got me :) 
1672>Use popping bubbles to quiet your thoughts 
1673That or you get into a bubble that locks you away from everything, thoughts, weight, worries,… 
1674>ViVe seems to have a reputation as one of the relative handful of trustworthy hypnotists on the Internet.
1675I skimmed through the file to check it, it's really just one hour of countdowns and 5 min of telling you that you are free of unwanted triggers. So thank you for the recommendation, it's a good file, perhaps a bit boring, but I guess that's good. 
1676>You can't be me. You've said you live on a different continent.
1677Why do you fear that we are the same person? We aren't. I live in western Europe and have a full time job where I see people all day long.
1678>this "aware" state can be taught, and more importantly, suggested. 
1679I believe this to be true. 
1680>None. :-D
1681You implied that you did write some self hypnosis, didn't you? 
1682>Yet I can't offer reproach because you have done so for their own benefit and the world is arguably a better place due to your acts. Indeed, your acts have come at significant cost to you, though you may not recognize it, or you may consider it worth the rewards you reap.
1683I agree wholeheartedly. Couldn't have said it better. 
1684>>26275
1685>Just treat it like all the other bimbo audio clips and recognize it's just slightly above average as far as production goes.
1686I think the Bambi files did pass a symbolic threshold that makes them not only effective for trained, bimbo fetishists, but for everyone, even the unaware of what is really happening.
1687
1688â–¶Anonymous  06/25/17 (Sun) 14:03:59 No.26325>>26350
1689We needed another mass culling of the male population. It isn't going to be a bad future. This is a much more humane way than a world war. Have you not seen how weak and disgusting men have gotten in recent decades?
1690
1691â–¶Anonymous  06/26/17 (Mon) 08:32:43 No.26350>>26360
1692>>26275
1693> the more you hype up this "Bambi" thing, the more people are going to want to try it
1694That's why I will discuss it if mentioned, but won't bring it up.
1695> why you guys have such an issue and are treating it like some deathcult when there are thousands of other audio files created with the same intent
1696Reports indicate that the "Bambi" files have more radical and more lasting effects than most bimbo files. Enough to be life-wrecking.
1697> always emphasizes quick blank-snaps over real depth
1698The "Bambi" files appear to be different and do actually try for real depth. This is part of what makes them dangerous: people using them as a typical "bimbo vacation from self" can get drawn in and become mindless zombie bimbos.
1699>>26321
1700> 1. Some ill-intentioned person starts publishing the files in a repackaged form, freely, to the general public
1701The files are already published freely to the general public and I don't see too many ways to repackage them and have them still work. The files are useless if the listener doesn't at least have some desire for their effects, although "for science" appears to be partially sufficient, since "part" of you didn't want to remember them. Are you suggesting someone would claim the files are something else and people would fall for it?
1702> 2. Somebody (not necessarily the creator) creates a new bambi file that compells all the bambis to share the program.
1703This comes back to "Bambi" being a bimbo: I don't think the "Bambis" would be very effective in sharing anything other than genital herpes.
1704> I don't even know if it's such a good idea to write these ideas down…
1705We have to be aware of these possibilities, and publicly working to oppose such acts could help us fit the situation into a "good wizards against the evil wizard" narrative, which is probably our best scenario for handling a "spill" into normie-land.
1706>>26322 (I'll address the self-improvement/pair-bonding in another reply)
1707> I think we shouldn't do that in the open
1708Sunlight is the best disinfectant. We'll need to keep this out in the open, or at least visible to those who seek it. This forum is a good place for several reasons, but the biggest problem is the inability to maintain anonymity in a semi-closed forum like you suggest. Further, people will be a lot less suspicious of activities conducted in the "light of day" than a forum with access levels that could easily itself become a sort of cult.
1709>>26325
1710> Have you not seen how weak and disgusting men have gotten in recent decades?
1711That's another possible motive: sissy is cancer and the "Bambi" files could be someone's attempt to chemo that cancer out of the community by turning them all into mindless zombie bimbos. This is actually one of the more frightening scenarios to me: what if /pol/ finds a way to weaponize those files against some widespread and visible group they don't like? I speculate that "antifa" would be the first target if it happened today. This could make for a very large "spill" indeed, especially if it then gets out of hand, as /pol/'s shenanigans tend to do.
1712
1713â–¶Anonymous  06/26/17 (Mon) 08:33:02 No.26351>>26458
1714>>26310
1715> What Elman argues is that hypnotism doesn't necessarily require a deep state of relaxation, but simply suspension of disbelief
1716That seems accurate for at least some effects, but then why is a deep state of relaxation so commonly used for trance? Is that simply the easiest way to suspend disbelief?
1717>>26322
1718> you got me :)
1719Yes, and you'll be able to make better summaries after you get the bimbo amnesia suggestions out of your head.
1720> That or you get into a bubble that locks you away from everything, thoughts, weight, worries,…
1721This seems less likely to work, since the goal is to condition animal-you in the sessions. Are you suggesting that the conditioning would then only take place inside the bubble, while the rest of your mental environment is unaffected?
1722Hmmm, I wonder if animal-you could climb into a bubble, leaving analytical-you alone with your thoughts, then experience another environment inside the bubble. The problem I then see is that the conditioning part of the session for animal-you would probably annoy analytical-you, since the animal-you is in the bubble.
1723> perhaps a bit boring, but I guess that's good
1724When removing a blow-up doll personality that was placed in your mind using "interesting" hypnosis, boring is really good.
1725> >You can't be me.
1726> Why do you fear that we are the same person?
1727I don't. The "you can't be me" is a joking response when you've described something that I thought was a unique experience no else would also have or even understand.
1728> >this "aware" state can be taught, and more importantly, suggested
1729> I believe this to be true.
1730Excellent! But how to suggest it?
1731> You implied that you did write some self hypnosis, didn't you?
1732I didn't write it. I did it "live" which is probably why I got excited that it worked and … "Rats, I was in trance."
1733
1734â–¶hizzo  06/26/17 (Mon) 17:35:17 No.26360>>26387
1735>>26350
1736>Are you suggesting someone would claim the files are something else and people would fall for it?
1737Not something completely else, but I would imagine that teenagers with insecurities could get sucked in if told that those funny files will help you relax and feel better. I don't know. 
1738>I don't think the "Bambis" would be very effective in sharing anything 
1739Not by themselves, but if instructed to share some pre-made texts, perhaps. But I don't think that there are enough Bambis for that scenario. 
1740>working to oppose such acts 
1741Well, we aren't really actively working against the spreading of the files… 
1742>"good wizards against the evil wizard" narrative, which is probably our best scenario for handling a "spill" into normie-land.
1743I don't think it'll work out that way. Don't forget we are talking about manipulating people to serve you blindly and eternally in this same thread. If journalists find this forum, we'll all be put in the same bag and it'll possibly become incredibly hard to practice irl. 
1744>We'll need to keep this out in the open, or at least visible to those who seek it.
1745Those are two very different things. The issue I see with complete free access to all the discussions on such subjects is that, to a normal person who stumbles on this thread, what we do is either madness, evil, or a plot to destroy the world. Imagine a news outlet talking about us, they won't report (nor understand) on the way we nuance our discussions. That is why I think making the access slightly more difficult could be a good idea. 
1746>the biggest problem is the inability to maintain anonymity in a semi-closed forum like you suggest.
1747That is true. I don't know how much value total anonymity has to the community. The reddit community seems quite ok with their system. 
1748>people will be a lot less suspicious of activities conducted in the "light of day"
1749Who are the "people" you talk about? If it's normies, then I can safely say that they will think that 8chan is already pretty dark (I agree it's not, but you know, people…)
1750
1751â–¶hizzo  06/26/17 (Mon) 17:36:38 No.26361>>26388
1752>you'll be able to make better summaries after you get the bimbo amnesia suggestions out of your head.
1753This has nothing to do with that. I'm just typing most of my messages from my phone, which means I sometimes miss stuff… 
1754>Are you suggesting that the conditioning would then only take place inside the bubble, while the rest of your mental environment is unaffected?
1755Yes: "in the bubble, you feel safe, protected from the outside world, from your worries. You can perhaps still hear, feel or smell the world around you, but you know that it cannot affect you in here." Presenting the bubble this way also includes an integrated amnesia of sorts, as you can make the subject understand that "What happens in the bubble stays in the bubble". 
1756People love bubbles, their perfect roundness and the connection to childhood games are the reasons for this I suppose. 
1757>The problem I then see is that the conditioning part of the session for animal-you would probably annoy analytical-you, since the animal-you is in the bubble.
1758I fail to see the possible reason for this annoyance. 
1759>I don't. The "you can't be me" is a joking response
1760Oh. Even though I have spend much time of my life on the internet, I have to say that I'm quite new in these parts. Thanks for clearing that up! 
1761>Excellent! But how to suggest it?
1762My guess would be something like: "Whenever you know you need to take an important decision, you feel your eyebrows frown, your awareness and your consciousness of everything around you and everything that is happening rise. This awareness allows you to think clearly, analyze the situation and take the right decision. "
1763The frowning eyebrows has been shown to automatically summon (or at least help) your analytical part. You can try this yourself: try thinking emotional thoughts while frowning, it's hard. Try analyzing something while frowning, it's easy. 
1764>I didn't write it. I did it "live" which is probably why I got excited that it worked and … "Rats, I was in trance."
1765I don't exactly get what you mean. So you recorded yourself improvising a session and then got entranced just from recording?
1766
1767â–¶hizzo  06/26/17 (Mon) 17:37:44 No.26362>>26365
1768Okay, so, I'm not trying to force anybody here, and I'm not saying I'm sure it'll work or that it's even a good idea, but I'm going to describe this forum idea as a thought experiment. 
1769I know a website where you can find every software, tutorial and resource for video and audio creation. It's a forum and a tracker combination where hackers and leechers meet to get everything freely. Sign ups are free for all, but there is only one day every two weeks where you can sign up. This actually seems to be quite effective to make sure the people signing up are at least slightly motivated. That I think could be a good idea for our hypothetical forum. 
1770Then, I would separate the forum in categories like "positive/self help", "erotic", "programs", "experiments",… 
1771I don't know about limiting access, but it could perhaps be a good idea to at least add a little hurdle to get to the "darker" categories. Conditions like having an account that's at least 2 months old and that has posted at least 10 times. 
1772To keep the forum on point and avoid becoming a file dump, i'd say that only scripts and links to files the user has created are allowed. Discussions about external files would be allowed, but only with script snippets and not the whole script. 
1773Everytime a hypnodome tries to get feedback from the community arround here (or on reddit), they get flooded by either people telling them how terrible they are or people just telling them their little random fetish. We have so many people actively contributing to this community, but in the end, everyone stays in their basement, doing stuff alone. 
1774The biggest problem for such an idea is I don't even know if there is a demand for such a thing. Of course, beginners would love somewhere to get help, but would such an idea be also interesting for more advanced hypnotists? What do you all think?
1775
1776â–¶Third  06/26/17 (Mon) 19:10:26 No.26365>>26376 >>26387 >>26479
1777File (hide): d5fd0fab2cb1a70⋯.png (395.28 KB, 540x802, 270:401, tumblr_ory689U7X41qfw3tbo1….png) (h) (u)
1778
1779>>26362
1780I would second this idea, though I have little experience with forums beyond a brief and admittedly failed foray into running a chan style site. (Even then I wasn't the guy writing the site, just directing and acting as a moderator).
1781I believe there is a demand for such a site though it would likely have difficulty generating enough revenue to stay active without either donations or a benefactor willing to pay the $80-120 per year such a site would require in fees. (that number could be higher now, that's just what I was paying for the earlier mentioned chan site).
1782The biggest hurdle is file dumping, a large portion of our community is big into file sharing and dumping. We want at least some of them to be part of the conversation but also to not dump files. A reporting function would be a must so both content creators and concerned users can report when somebody drops a bunch of paid files and get the files removed. 
1783It strikes me that Warp My Mind was intended to be something along these lines but got subsumed by the file sharing aspect.
1784>>26321
1785I'm not as worried that they'll become some kind of "slaves of the snake goddess" style cult that forces people to become Bambi as I am that some teenage kid gets into it and their parents go to the media with it. 
1786"My son thinks he's a bimbo named Bambi because of evil hypnotists on the internet." is a headline that I would never want to see.
1787>>26322
1788>I think the Bambi files truly puts an issue into the light: We, hypno community, who are aware of dangers and risks, want to be able to experiment, learn and perfect ourselves. The issue is the more we collaborate, share and discuss, the bigger the risk of getting unwanted, negative attention becomes.
1789This is exactly my feeling. I see this amazing tool which can do so much good but has such a capacity to be used for evil. I've talked to dozens of other hypnotists online and a few in person, what I've found is that there are some like me who want to push the boundaries and try new things and whose greatest joy is a subject who wants to do the same. Then there are the much more conservative people who treat hypnosis as a fun little thing they do to spice things up in the bedroom or as a stage-style performance art. 
1790Some of us want to push those boundaries and learn everything, but a lot of people neither want nor should be (in my opinion) trusted with the deeper secrets of hypnosis. There are many things I know now, through experimentation, that I would never share on an open forum like this. It would simply be irresponsible.
1791
1792â–¶hizzo  06/26/17 (Mon) 23:10:02 No.26376>>26381
1793>>26365
1794>I would second this idea, though I have little experience with forums
1795Do I understand correctly that you are volunteering to be a mod ?
1796>It would likely have difficulty generating enough revenue 
1797The costs I could bear, at least in the beginning, that's not the issue. I have looked a bit into this and the Gazelle project seems quite perfect for this purpose. I already have a little personal server I maintain so I'm at least going to play around with gazelle to see whats possible.
1798>I was paying for the earlier mentioned chan
1799Did you pay the server with your own credit card ? I'm not sure I would want to do that.
1800>We want at least some of them to be part of the conversation but also to not dump files.
1801Well, the relatively simple solution to this is to just disallow any kind of upload. This would also be great to keep the costs down. I think a report button and some mods would be enough, as I wouldn't expect that much activity on the site.
1802>I've talked to dozens of other hypnotists online and a few in person, what I've found is that there are some like me who want to push the boundaries and try new things and whose greatest joy is a subject who wants to do the same.
1803I'll take this as a sign that such a forum would really be welcomed, by at least a small group.
1804>Then there are the much more conservative people who treat hypnosis as a fun little thing they do to spice things up in the bedroom or as a stage-style performance art.
1805And this is completely fine. 
1806>Some of us want to push those boundaries and learn everything, but a lot of people neither want nor should be (in my opinion) trusted with the deeper secrets of hypnosis.
1807This is the more interesting question. I wouldn't want to build a closed circle, even though it's a possibility. On what basis should users be allowed to participate in the more "bleeding edge" discussions ? I have difficulty deciding what I prefer: An automatic access based on a set of conditions (account age, post number,…) or peer review ? The first just proves that you are motivated, the other is open to interpretation and would be quite labour intensive.
1808
1809â–¶Third  06/27/17 (Tue) 03:58:35 No.26381>>26382 >>26386 >>26388
1810File (hide): 4e61c296a2a023b⋯.gif (678.85 KB, 708x1000, 177:250, __toujou_nozomi_love_live_….gif) (h) (u)
1811
1812>>26376
1813>Do I understand correctly that you are volunteering to be a mod ?
1814You would indeed be correctly understanding.
1815>Did you pay the server with your own credit card ? I'm not sure I would want to do that.
1816Through a Paypal attached to my bank account that was set up as a Business Account so it showed my business name.
1817>Well, the relatively simple solution to this is to just disallow any kind of upload. This would also be great to keep the costs down. I think a report button and some mods would be enough, as I wouldn't expect that much activity on the site.
1818I would think maybe have a whitelist of filetypes and just disallow any filetypes that are problematic. PDFs would be good, pictures and even gifs would probably be fine, just no audio or video files.
1819>I'll take this as a sign that such a forum would really be welcomed, by at least a small group.
1820I would guess there are quite a few of us who would take to a site as proposed. The hardest part is getting users.
1821 
1822>>Some of us want to push those boundaries and learn everything, but a lot of people neither want nor should be (in my opinion) trusted with the deeper secrets of hypnosis.
1823>This is the more interesting question. I wouldn't want to build a closed circle, even though it's a possibility. On what basis should users be allowed to participate in the more "bleeding edge" discussions ? I have difficulty deciding what I prefer: An automatic access based on a set of conditions (account age, post number,…) or peer review ? The first just proves that you are motivated, the other is open to interpretation and would be quite labour intensive.
1824This will be the hardest part to get right but I would advocate for peer review. After a user hits certain milestones they can submit for a peer review where some predetermined number of higher level users can look at their post history and ask them some questions to make sure they aren't a poser or completely insane. Classic guild rules.
1825So really some hybrid would be best, have a number of levels that are automatically awarded but then the last one or two need higher level users to weigh in. This would also cut down on the burden of vetting too many people.
1826On a completely unrelated note I found a .gif version of the second image I posted.
1827
1828â–¶Third  06/27/17 (Tue) 04:03:41 No.26382
1829>>26381
1830I forgot to address the decision between Invite-Only, Specific Date Registration, and Open Registration.
1831I would vote for either Invite-Only or Specific Date because they both mean there's some level of difficulty with joining the site. Plus they'd keep bots and shills out.
1832
1833â–¶Anonymous  06/27/17 (Tue) 05:57:52 No.26385>>26386 >>26390 >>26408
1834>>26274
1835re the creator of the Bambi files - There's a screen cap in the current Bambi thread with a statement that the (apparent) creator of the Bambi files posted in the discord chat: 
1836http://8ch.net/hypno/res/25618.html#26018
1837If you take her at her word that she's not intending permanence and personality replacement (difficult for me to do given the breakdown of those files posted in the Bambi thread), then a very generous interpretation of her behavior might be that she's trying to achieve an effect but doesn't quite know what she's doing and hasn't fully thought through how her files and triggers are operating and interacting with each other.
1838re the Bubble pattern - For the Bambi files specifically, I think people are referring to the specific Bubble induction file that was posted on WarpMyMind; apparently the Bambi creator just directly imitated that.
1839
1840â–¶hizzo  06/27/17 (Tue) 06:38:35 No.26386>>26390 >>26391 >>26408
1841File (hide): 105543cf49dfede⋯.jpg (140.01 KB, 860x680, 43:34, 03c9ba88511bfd2c9c251878ee….jpg) (h) (u)
1842
1843>>26381
1844>Through a Paypal attached to my bank account that was set up as a Business Account so it showed my business name.
1845So you had one level of separation. Do you know any reliable VPS host where I can get a server without giving them a name and address ?
1846>I would think maybe have a whitelist of filetypes and just disallow any filetypes that are problematic.
1847There are two issues with this: First, people just need to rename the mp3s into pdfs and you have the same problem again. Filenames are not reliable and you'll have to check files manually as a mod if you want to really keep the website clean. Secondly, the space issue. If the server has to host files, then the size of it will constantly grow, making it's price go up. And because it wouldn't really be possible to monetize the site, this doesn't seem good to me.
1848Forums often don't allow file uploads but manage a list of considered "reliable" file hosts where the users can upload a file and share it. If the file is in an encrypted zip file with a scrambled filename, there is no way for people outside the forum to get access to it.
1849>The hardest part is getting users.
1850Because the target group (hypnotists) is a small part in an already small community, I'm quite confident that this forum wouldn't become the next big thing. In the end, even if there are only four of us, and a new one from time to time, then I would consider the project a success.
1851>have a number of levels that are automatically awarded but then the last one or two need higher level users to weigh in.
1852How many levels do you even propose ? Because three would be a good number to me. Perhaps a fourth one that is invite only, but yeah. The more you fragment the few users of the site, the less attractive the forum becomes.
1853>they can submit for a peer review where some predetermined number of higher level users can look at their post history and ask them some questions to make sure they aren't a poser or completely insane. Classic guild rules.
1854If the forum was already running for a decade, I would agree that this is a great way to do it. But how to allow already experienced hypnotist who already now much to get to the "darker" topics without having to write twenty answers to beginner questions ? I don't even know if we'll get that many beginner questions to start with. I know an incentive for experienced hypnotists to help out beginners would be nice, but I think many would see that as too much effort. Perhaps we could allow anybody to go through the peer review directly, for a week or two, but having those who come in directly agree that they need to post actively to prove themselves retroactively.
1855>I would vote for either Invite-Only or Specific Date because they both mean there's some level of difficulty with joining the site.
1856I think invite only would be hard to achieve, as most of us do not know anybody else around in this community, especially the beginners. So I'm still leaning towards specific date.
1857What about doing a category where subjects who are willing to experiment and go further could create a thread directly with the more experienced people ? For instance only the OP and the "elite" could answer and see the post. Subjects would need to describe what they can already achieve (triggers, achieved depth, …) and what they would be open to experiment with.
1858>I found a .gif version of the second image I posted.
1859Your images are always a pleasure to look at, thank you for them.
1860>>26385
1861>doesn't quite know what she's doing
1862Somebody writing and editing with such talent knows what s/he's doing. The logic of the files is simple:
18631. When you are not wearing the uniform, you want to wear it. The more time you spend without it, the more you want/need to.
18642. You cannot take your uniform off, except if you are sucking on a cock (or phallic object). it gets harder every time.
18653. Sucking makes you go blank and forget everything, flooding you with happiness.
1866If you take any of these suggestions by itself, it's true that they aren't permanent. But in combination ? They create a loop, always giving your brain a reassuring way out that is extremely hard (effectively impossible once you are deep enough) to achieve. The files even explicitly mention the fact that getting a way out is what is going to make you accept the suggestion, but it's an extremely hard one. I believe the author is just trying to reassure people to get even more people to listen to the files, nothing else.
1867
1868â–¶Anonymous  06/27/17 (Tue) 08:15:26 No.26387>>26413
1869>>26360
1870> we aren't really actively working against the spreading of the files
1871Nor are the files being actively spread… but our discussions on the matter are contingency planning.
1872> talking about manipulating people to serve you
1873Oh yeah, that was the OP.
1874> If journalists find this forum, we'll all be put in the same bag
1875Here in America, the journalists would find themselves between a rock and a hard place: the American right (mostly the same people who already see hypnosis as either fake or evil) would dismiss it as just more "fake news" while the American left (mostly the people OP talks about who see hypnosis as kind of a joke) would attack them for kink-shaming. We're still in a pretty good spot here.
1876> to a normal person who stumbles on this thread, what we do is either madness, evil, or a plot to destroy the world
1877Yes. Fortunately for us, those types of people already have those views of us and are generally marginalized because they have those views about almost everything.
1878> I think making the access slightly more difficult could be a good idea.
1879That's one of the good things about 8chan: Google de-indexed us a long time ago. While we aren't actively hiding anything, we also aren't going to be turning up in search results.
1880> reddit community
1881A Reddit-like model could be useful, especially if the site itself is an .onion. The critical detail is that Reddit accounts can be pure pseudonyms, with no off-site connection to anything, not even an email address.
1882>>26365
1883> "My son thinks he's a bimbo named Bambi because of evil hypnotists on the Internet." is a headline that I would never want to see.
1884I don't want to see it either, though less because of the exposure and more because that's something that should not happen in the first place.  Either way, I don't think we'll see such a headline any time soon, even if it does happen, for the reasons I mentioned above.
1885> I see this amazing tool which can do so much good but which has such a capacity to be used for evil
1886That's every tool: a tool is neutral while the uses of a tool can be good or evil. The more useful the tool, the greater the good (or evil) that using it can do.
1887
1888â–¶Anonymous  06/27/17 (Tue) 08:15:27 No.26388>>26414
1889>>26361
1890> "in the bubble, you feel safe, protected from the outside world, from your worries. You can perhaps still hear, feel or smell the world around you, but you know that it cannot affect you in here."
1891Which is a third alternative, in my interpretation.
1892> "What happens in the bubble stays in the bubble"
1893That's good for play-type or stage hypnosis, but useless for effecting lasting change. [ding!] That's a great idea for a couple to hypnotize each other for fun though, since any effects will fade after you climb out of the bubble. Hmmm… now how to enable your mate to wrap you in a bliss bubble…
1894> I fail to see the possible reason for this annoyance.
1895The goal is to separate animal-you and analytical-you for the duration of the session. Placing analytical-you into a safe bubble and leaving it there such that the session seems instant was what I first suggested. I read your suggestion as placing animal-you into the bubble and leaving analytical-you "loose" while animal-you is being conditioned. The simple issue then is that analytical-you, outside the bubble, will probably hear the entire session. This is annoying if you are supposed to be alone with your thoughts, enjoying time to simply think, while your animal-self is being conditioned in the bubble.
1896> Whenever you know you need to take an important decision
1897The problem with this is that we want analytical-you to be "always-on" not just when animal-you recognizes an important decision. (It doesn't help that animal-you is generally pretty bad at recognizing such things.)
1898> you feel your eyebrows frown
1899I'd also much prefer that there be no externally visible indication, especially if the goal for "always-on" analytical-you is met. I'll need to think about wording this. It doesn't help that I'm trying to suggest entering a state that I'm almost always in, like a whale trying to teach swimming.
1900> So you recorded yourself improvising a session
1901No, there was no recording. I did it "live" talking to myself in my head, which is probably why my trance was so fragile.
1902> got entranced just from recording?
1903One source I later read suggests that effective hypnosis has a tendency to also entrance the hypnotist and the key skill for a hypnotist is to still function while in trance with the subject.
1904>>26381
1905While I oppose the notion of access levels primarily on the grounds that it creates the appearance that we are trying to hide something and I don't believe that we really have anything to hide, I would also point out that such limited forums have a tendency to get hacked and the "hidden" threads dumped. Make sure that the forum works if users disable JavaScript in their browsers.
1906> have a number of levels that are automatically awarded but then the last one or two need higher level users to weigh in
1907If you are really intent on setting up a forum with access levels, this is the way to go. You'll blend in with most forums that have a "newbie area" if the automatic levels are done right. Also, make sure that the top few levels are invisible to lower level users and users in those levels simply appear to be at the highest automatic level. This also means that the "edge" boards don't appear for lower level users.
1908I would also suggest making "lurk" and "post" distinct access permissions, since this can easily be presented as an anti-spam measure. Lower levels can read most of the forums, but you need higher levels to post or to edit the integrated wiki, which is intended as a community script collection. I also suggest making "lurk" entirely open on all of the "visible" boards, or having an open lounge board and giving all users "lurk" on the rest of the "visible" boards.
1909I also suggest random periodic open registration. Check regularly and you'll eventually get in.
1910
1911â–¶Anonymous  06/27/17 (Tue) 09:00:36 No.26390>>26412
1912>>26385
1913> trying to achieve an effect but doesn't quite know what she's doing
1914This is possible. I also consider that the author of the files (I don't say "she" or "he" because we really don't know) may be operating with diminished capacity and a large set of induced compulsions.
1915> hasn't fully thought through how her files and triggers are operating and interacting with each other
1916This is one of the reasons that my project has advanced so slowly. I'm carefully considering interactions, some of the interactions I've found have been good and others have forced me to rethink large parts of the program!
1917> apparently the Bambi creator just directly imitated that
1918That supports the hypothesis that the author or authors don't really know what they are doing and just "mashed-up" a bunch of stuff and stumbled on something dangerously effective.
1919>>26386
1920> Somebody writing and editing with such talent knows what s/he's doing.
1921I'm less certain of this. Reports suggest that the "Bambi" files contain many pieces of other hypnosis fetish files, which suggests to me that the whole thing is a sort of "mash-up" instead of a freestanding work. Editing skill is unrelated to hypnosis skill.
1922> 1. When you are not wearing the uniform, you want to wear it. The more time you spend without it, the more you want/need to.
1923> 2. You cannot take your uniform off, except if you are sucking on a cock (or phallic object). it gets harder every time.
1924> 3. Sucking makes you go blank and forget everything, flooding you with happiness.
1925I wonder if these are all taken from various other bimbo files and simply brought together in this set.
1926> They create a loop, always giving your brain a reassuring way out that is extremely hard (effectively impossible once you are deep enough) to achieve.
1927> The files even mention the fact that getting a way out is what is going to make you accept the suggestion
1928Remember what I said about animal-you being bad at recognizing important decisions? This is an example, but I think I may have an idea for the safety net aspect: animal-you cannot retain suggestions after a trance session unless analytical-you approves them … after you are awake and your mind is clear.
1929> I believe the author is just trying to reassure people to get even more people to listen to the files, nothing else.
1930It's not to get more people to listen to the files. It's to get people who listen to the files to accept the triggers. Animal-you isn't very good at anticipating larger effects, and I'll guess that each of 1,2,3 that you mention are spaced fairly far apart in the files?
1931
1932â–¶Anonymous  06/27/17 (Tue) 09:00:36 No.26391
1933>>26386
1934> people just need to rename the mp3s into pdfs and you have the same problem again
1935Easily fixed. There's a program called "file" that looks at the contents of a file and deduces its type. It will reliably recognize "That's not a PDF!" if someone tries this.
1936> How many levels do you even propose ?
1937I prefer two: guest and registered user. Guest access is read-only. Registered users can post and edit wiki pages. User registration is purely an anti-spam measure, and guests may also be granted write access, but must solve a CAPTCHA for each post or edit.
1938
1939â–¶Anonymous  06/27/17 (Tue) 10:57:42 No.26394>>26433 >>26574
1940I'm interested in the Pair Bonding discussion, if only because I've managed to have other people effectively accomplish the same effects. both people are more self analytical than most and capable of effective hypnosis and  conditioning  and frequently do so.  Often their analytical and adapting ability is given up to show some degree of vulnerable state to the other.
1941
1942â–¶Third  06/27/17 (Tue) 19:39:44 No.26408>>26414 >>26434
1943File (hide): df2fa19983993e1⋯.jpg (321.08 KB, 919x1287, 919:1287, df2fa19983993e1423771eb406….jpg) (h) (u)
1944
1945>>26385
1946I am loathe to take the creator of such a file at their word. 
1947The bubble induction pre-dates the one on WarpMyMind but is more of a modus than a set induction. Using bubbles as imagery is part of what makes it effective but the real secret is the layering of effects so when the bubbles "pop" the subject is pushed through a rollercoaster of emotional states preventing critical response and increasing effectiveness multiplicatively. 
1948>>26386
1949I was with Hostgator but that was several years ago so they may have updated what they ask people for. 
1950>File types
1951I think having the offshoring of files might present an even bigger threat in that we have no means by which to check the content of the links. Even if they go to trusted sites like Mega there's still the direct possibility that the files are just like the dumps here. I think the best defense is to create a community that supports content creators and encourages people to just buy the damn files or better yet to create free-to-all files so sharing isn't the enemy.
1952>getting users
1953I think once word gets out, and I'm in a few discord groups I could spread it to, we could see a decent number of hypnotists but I agree with your sentiment that even a small group would be a success.
1954>levels
1955Three seems optimal to me (I'm not sure why…) An introductory level where anyone can join and be part of the conversation but not make threads.
1956An intermediate level where people can make public threads.
1957And an Upper level where members can make restricted threads that only Upper level members can see and respond to. (these threads could be released in locked form if group consensus decides).
1958As to your idea to have a special introductory period where people can go straight to peer review I think that's a good compromise to get this project up and running.
1959In fact I agree with everything you say through the rest of your post.
1960As to my images I simply have a very high standard. I'm glad you enjoy them.
1961
1962â–¶Third  06/27/17 (Tue) 22:53:20 No.26412>>26433
1963>>26390
1964>This is an example, but I think I may have an idea for the safety net aspect: animal-you cannot retain suggestions after a trance session unless analytical-you approves them … after you are awake and your mind is clear.
1965This sounds great but my experience says that it's fairly easy to structure the rewards for accepting triggers specifically so that the waking, conscious mind accepts and allows them to work. I've made a career of doing literally that.
1966Besides that I would advise against thinking that it's that easy to separate "animal-you" and "analytical-you", much of hypnosis (at least in my experience) is confusing or tricking the analytical part to accept the suggestions because the animal part doesn't even question them. 
1967A better route would be to have a latent trigger that prevents audio files from working the first time through so you can listen through them and see if there's anything messed up. I have done this for a friend and can assure you it's not hard to do.
1968
1969â–¶hizzo  06/27/17 (Tue) 23:06:52 No.26413>>26434
1970File (hide): aa238b8ba6cea66⋯.jpg (80.62 KB, 760x1000, 19:25, c16fd330a06a5edd13fd2e1996….jpg) (h) (u)
1971
1972>>26387
1973>Here in America […] We're still in a pretty good spot here.
1974I'm not American, so I can't know better than you, but I feel that reducing hundreds of millions of people to just two groups is simplifying things too much. What I can tell you, is that, at least in the rest of the world, such news could have devastating consequences on the way hypnosis is practiced. This is what OP was saying in the beginning of this thread: We rely on the fact that the vast majority of the population is unaware that hypnosis exists to be able to enjoy it freely. If people start to warn their kids about the "bad hypnotists lurking in the streets at night" you can believe me it will be really difficult to create the trust needed for hypnosis.
1975>A Reddit-like model could be useful
1976I feel that I'm really going against you in this post, it isn't personal, we just disagree. There already is a reddit like model: Reddit. There are a few hypnosis focused subreddits and none of them is really active. Even on the EroticHypnosis most posts don't have more than three comments. 
1977Now, there are two ways to interpret the fact that reddit isn't more used in the community: Either it's because people never created a subreddit aimed for hypnotists to exchange ideas, or it's because something is missing.
1978I'd say that what's missing is a feeling of intimacy (not privacy). What I mean by that is that when you talk about the way you hypnotize people and show snippets of scripts, you are quite vulnerable. It's reassuring to know that the people reading the script you just spent two days perfecting are peers who know and understand the decisions you take and not by some random strangers. I know this is not rational, but I believe that's the way it works.
1979The Discord Groups the OP mentions aren't about privacy at all, they are about being with other like minded people. The idea of the forum, to me, is to open up those closed circles a bit, by allowing anybody willing to participate. 
1980>if the site itself is an .onion
1981I know you are referencing tor, but I wouldn't know where to begin with this. If I'm the one creating the forum (Which isn't a necessity, I'm very inexperienced with creating such a thing) then this won't be the case.
1982>the notion of access levels […] creates the appearance that we are trying to hide something
1983Agreed.
1984>I would also point out that such limited forums have a tendency to get hacked and the "hidden" threads dumped.
1985Agreed again. That is why I put the emphasis on "intimacy" and not privacy/hiding.
1986>Make sure that the forum works if users disable JavaScript in their browsers.
1987So, I've been looking at open source forum projects and there are many new projects that take a new approach to forums. AJAX and mobile friendliness are two big arguments that make me want to experiment with those. I know why you ask for this, I'll have to see how flexible these new shiny things are.
1988>File types
1989I think you have me convinced, even if that would make the costs rise significantly (it's more 300$ a year now for a vps). What file type would you allow ?
1990I would argue we don't need pictures, videos are too big, text files can be written in the posts, executables are dangerous and audio would leave the door open to file dumping. What am I missing ?
1991I haven't responded to all of your feedback, because my response is already included in what I have written or I simply agree. Thank you for this feedback. It's nice getting two quite different, but constructive, points of view.
1992There are many things that need deciding. This isn't the right place because this thread was actually about discussing hypno and I'm derailing it. Should we just make a discord or something ?
1993
1994â–¶hizzo  06/27/17 (Tue) 23:08:26 No.26414>>26433
1995File (hide): 571c1386fe1800f⋯.jpg (204.69 KB, 1280x855, 256:171, a28e0577e44b41b995f6f948af….jpg) (h) (u)
1996
1997Back to the main topic:
1998>>26388
1999>we want analytical-you to be "always-on"
2000You said yourself in an earlier post that this wasn't the way things worked. Being "always on" would prevent you from feeling emotions, remember things and it would drain your energy. You probably should focus on training the subconscious to wake up the analytical part when it makes sense. 
2001>I'd also much prefer that there be no externally visible indication
2002People can't suddenly think intently about something while still giving the impression of being inactive intellectually. You can minimize the reaction, but it's something that needs training, not something that just happens.
2003>talking to myself in my head, which is probably why my trance was so fragile.
2004This makes sense, because you cannot let yourself completely go, as it would mean stopping to think about what you are saying next.
2005>>26408
2006the real secret is the layering of effects so when the bubbles "pop" the subject is pushed through a rollercoaster of emotional states preventing critical response and increasing effectiveness multiplicatively.
2007Aah, this is an apt description of what I felt while listening to it. That makes sense.
2008>>26082
2009>Any ideas for other individual-focused items?
2010I cannot think of anything else. If you train them to trance, then to feel good mentally and physically and finally push them towards getting better themselves, well, there isn't much left.
2011I would do the things in that order, even though the exercise part could be something part of the "couples" files and not for the individuals. Once you have trained them to trance easily then there is nothing stopping you from directly starting with files aimed at the couple.
2012
2013â–¶Anonymous  06/28/17 (Wed) 08:31:22 No.26433>>26459 >>26475
2014>>26394
2015> interested in the Pair Bonding discussion
2016Thanks.
2017> effectively accomplish the same effects
2018Please tell more.
2019> Often their analytical and adapting ability is given up to show some degree of vulnerable state to the other.
2020This could be a possibility, but it would only be able to last briefly, say for cuddle-sex while going to sleep together, or perhaps longer, as a "vacation from self" as your mate's pet, but that's way off into a narrow fetish.
2021On the other hand, avoiding that was the purpose behind my original "mind-meld" idea. Think about it this way: do you ever have a need to be vulnerable to yourself? No, and the need for vulnerable times can be avoided if your mate is an extension of yourself and vice versa. Too bad that "mind-meld" probably won't work.
2022>>26412
2023> fairly easy to structure the rewards
2024The rewards would have to also be suppressed until evaluated. But then there's that carrot hanging out there… back to the drawing board, then.
2025> latent trigger that prevents audio files from working the first time through so you can listen through them and if there's anything messed up
2026This sounds to me like the same problem you've found with my idea: there's still that carrot hanging out there.
2027>>26414
2028> Being "always on" would prevent you from feeling emotion, remember things and it would drain your energy
2029I have none of those effects, yet I observe such an "always on" state in introspection. Am I simply neuroatypical with a rare ability to have both? Are we talking about two different states? (I have noticed a "brow-furrowing" when particularly concentrating on something, and such concentration does have the effects you describe. There's also a distinct "eye-pointing" associated with semantic recall, but I don't notice any movements associated with sense recall.)
2030> People can't suddenly think intently about something
2031That's it! I'm not thinking intently, but I'm always thinking. There's an "in-between" state and I mostly live there.
2032> something that needs training
2033How to train this? (I'm having a hard time here. It feels like a whale trying to explain swimming.)
2034> well, there isn't much left
2035Good. I'm not overlooking something obvious.
2036> the exercise part could be something part of the "couples" files
2037Like so much else, the tentative plan is for two exercise parts: one for individuals and one for couples. The latter builds on the former and includes suggestions for exercises that involve both people. As an example, squats are easier if you can steady yourself against each other. Also, workouts as a couple are likely to be more intense, since you both like the smell of each other's sweat.
2038> there is nothing stopping you from directly starting with files aimed at the couple
2039…except that the couple files are planned to build on the effects from the individual files.
2040
2041â–¶Anonymous  06/28/17 (Wed) 08:31:37 No.26434>>26460 >>26554
2042>>26408
2043> offshoring of files might present an even bigger threat in that we have no means by which to check the content of the links
2044Sure we do: the server can spider links and reject posts with links that cannot be determined safe.
2045>>26413
2046> we just disagree. There already is a reddit like model: Reddit
2047I didn't mean patterning the entire site after Reddit. I meant the way Reddit does user accounts.
2048> show snippets of scripts
2049I say the site needs a wiki component if it isn't entirely a wiki. I would like to see community-developed scripts. I'd even help with them as best I can.
2050> I wouldn't know where to begin with this
2051The Tor project explains: https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en
2052> I know why you ask for this
2053It's part for the security of the users and part for the forum itself. No JavaScript means no possibility of XSS attacks, which work frighteningly well for getting attackers into "hidden" parts of sites. It's also pretty easy, 8chan itself works fine without JavaScript.
2054> What file type would you allow ?
2055Ideally none. I'd prefer a wiki-type solution for discussion and collaborative script development. Ideally discussion should be possible as "annotations" to a script.
2056
2057â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 00:10:21 No.26458
2058>>26351
2059Exactly. You can only be hypnotized to do something that you want to do, but you first have to circumvent doubt. Doubt can be circumvented when a person is in a relaxed state, or if they are fully convinced that what is happening is real. If the trance state is a skeleton key, then waking hypnosis is lockpicking. Let's say that you want to convince someone that they have cancer. You can put them in a trance state and give the suggestion, and if they want to see what cancer is like, they'll do it. In waking hypnosis, you can't just expect a person to accept that they have cancer if you tell them that they have it. You'd have to pretend to be a doctor, screen them, and tell them that they have cancer in a convincing manner and leave absolutely no room for doubt.
2060
2061â–¶hizzo  06/29/17 (Thu) 00:39:59 No.26459>>26467
2062File (hide): f851499aac80776⋯.jpg (164.36 KB, 682x1024, 341:512, Vdd0Dvv.jpg) (h) (u)
2063
2064>>26433
2065>I have none of those effects, yet I observe such an "always on" state in introspection. Am I simply neuroatypical with a rare ability to have both? Are we talking about two different states? (I have noticed a "brow-furrowing" when particularly concentrating on something, and such concentration does have the effects you describe. 
2066Here's how these systems work, as far as I know: When analytical-you is idle (Animal-you is piloting the ship), you are unaware of that fact. When animal-you feels that it cannot handle the situation, it wakes analytical-you up. This can happen a few times in a second. The more you concentrate on something, the more analytical-you is active. If you are extremely concentrated (to solve a puzzle for instance), then you will loose some of your senses and reflexes, as well as the capacity to recall things with ease.
2067It's true that I, just like you, use my analytical-me quite a lot compared to others, but I believe it's just training. If you are training somebody who doesn't use his/her analytical part much, then they won't know what you mean by "analytical side". You need to show them this by having them first go to the more aggressive "full concentration mode" so that they understand what it means to be analytical before being able to switch more softly. 
2068Here's an analogy: When you start to learn how to drive, you are fully concentrated on the road. You don't talk with others, listen to the radio or think about something else. When you get more experienced, you can start doing things while driving. 
2069> That's it! I'm not thinking intently, but I'm always thinking. There's an "in-between" state and I mostly live there.
2070The reason why you think that you are able to be permanently analytical is because the "I" in your head that you use to define yourself, IS the analytical part and not the whole. I assume you think a lot with your voice in your head. Anytime this happens, your analytical part is working and you are aware of it. On the other side, it's impossible for you to notice when the intuitive system is working, while it's happening. It's all an illusion, just as the continuity of time is (Your brain doesn't process input continuously, but gives you the illusion that it is).
2071>the couple files are planned to build on the effects from the individual files.
2072So that means that couples will spend weeks trancing separately before being together for the first time ? I suggest making the solo files an optional thing to train something specific while your mate is away. But then again the mates would have less experience for their "first time together". I don't know.
2073
2074â–¶hizzo  06/29/17 (Thu) 00:40:21 No.26460>>26464 >>26468 >>26574
2075>>26434
2076>I didn't mean patterning the entire site after Reddit. I meant the way Reddit does user accounts.
2077Oh yeah, sorry. After reading it again it was clear. Seems like 15 hour work days do have an effect on my cognitive abilities. I think this would be a great way to go indeed. I mean, having an email requirement for sign up isn't much of an issue to the one who wants to stay anonymous, such a person would just need to create one of those temporary email accounts.
2078>I say the site needs a wiki component if it isn't entirely a wiki. I would like to see community-developed scripts. I'd even help with them as best I can.
2079That is a great idea, even though I'm not sure the wiki model is the best for that because so much is just "what the hypnotist prefers and feels confident using". But perhaps something where you can share your scripts with very specific tags and a description. Then other users could "fork" the script and publish their own revision.
2080>The Tor project explains: https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-hidden-service.html.en
2081Well, using tor really would be a sign that we are trying to hide something, wouldn't it ? :P
2082>It's part for the security of the users and part for the forum itself. No JavaScript means no possibility of XSS attacks, which work frighteningly well for getting attackers into "hidden" parts of sites.
2083True. I tried discourse tonight (a full JS based forum). I was up and running in less than an hour and could configure the whole site in under a day. But it's JS and if you want to do something the devs didn't think of, you can't, so… I'll look into phpBB next.
2084>Ideally none.
2085I though you though differently. We agree on that one then.
2086
2087â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 05:37:45 No.26464
2088>>26460
2089I have a background in security and web exploitation, and know a good deal  about what goes wrong in community management
2090>don't use JS
2091this goes well as a general performance suggestion, though because security people and defaults on tor often turn JavaScript off you shouldn't use it anyway.
2092>.onion site
2093running an anonymized hidden service only protects visitors from direct tracking, they can still be identified via pseudonymous tracking or other methods, but it's a good barrier for privacy or normal webcrawling users just searching around. But get someone who'd destroy your servers or have experience with dealing with tor traffic, some of which is often hostile cross network traffic.
2094
2095â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 06:36:22 No.26465>>26466
2096I have web dev experience (with tor hidden services aswell), though I would probably create a curated location where users could upload files rather than a discussion forum. Would anyone be interested in that? Ideas?
2097I feel like 8ch gives a good location for chatting, but sharing files is difficult.
2098
2099â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 06:54:47 No.26466>>26554 >>26574
2100>>26465
2101I think file sharing privileged users are the highest tier, which prevents it from becoming a file dump, or allowing only the less visible board members to post files, and only content approved by mods
2102
2103â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 08:21:14 No.26467>>26473 >>26483
2104>>26459
2105> reason why you think that you are able to be permanently analytical
2106> an illusion, just as the continuity of time is
2107I wonder if this a consequence of growing up in a house with many pendulum clocks. Tick, tock, tick, tock, 24 hours a day from infancy to … I think they all broke down in my teens. I'm very aware of the passage of time. Now I almost always have music playing, either physically or from memory in my head.
2108> the "I" in your head that you use to define yourself, IS the analytical part and not the whole
2109So my sense of self is incomplete, then? How to "notice" the rest and expand that "I"?
2110> I assume you think a lot with your voice in your head.
2111Voices, plural, but all of them are me. Yes, you assume correctly. There are other ways to think?
2112> couples will spend weeks trancing separately before being together for the first time ?
2113Just because the files don't mention your mate doesn't mean you can't both use them together. The "solo" files won't require you to be alone. For that matter, the "solo" files don't require a mate at all. You can use them to improve yourself either way.
2114
2115â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 08:21:14 No.26468>>26484
2116>>26460
2117> having an email requirement to sign up
2118Which is exactly what Reddit doesn't have. Wikipedia has a similar policy. An email address should not be required.
2119> I'm not sure the wiki model is the best for that
2120The idea is to be able to interleave suggested alternatives with inline commentary, conceptually similar to interleaved deltas, with an option to extract any particular set of choices as a one-piece script. To keep it reasonable, I suggest that alternatives have sentence granularity.
2121> using tor really would be a sign that we are trying to hide something
2122Only the location of the server, our own identities, and those of our users. A Tor site can be just as open as a regular site. Consider that even Facebook offers a Tor hidden service.
2123> I'll look into phpBB next
2124Are there any options that avoid both JavaScript and PHP? JavaScript puts the clients at risk, while PHP puts the server at risk.
2125
2126â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 10:53:54 No.26473>>26554 >>26574
2127>>26467
2128well it's interesting that we've come upon one as similar to us in at least some level of  personal experiences.
2129
2130â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  06/29/17 (Thu) 11:08:40 No.26475>>26504
2131>>26433
2132>Please tell more.
2133These two individuals are intently focused on caring for the other to the point that their ideas of emotional harm to either party are co-associated with the other. It sometimes causes them conflict when they both can't consider things but their primary focus is on growth for themselves and each other.
2134>it would only be able to last briefly, say for cuddle-sex while going to sleep together, or perhaps longer, as a "vacation from self" as your mate's pet, but that's way off into a narrow fetish.
2135often the case is contextual on the desires or boredom of each, specifically these individuals do have a semi fitted role in regard to being a pet, it's less of a vacation from self as a show of trust between them.
2136>the need for vulnerable times can be avoided if your mate is an extension of yourself and vice versa. 
2137I think the vulnerability need isn't based on having a lack of shared self but a desire to be open to each other completely in the most intimate way they can be
2138
2139â–¶Anonymous  06/29/17 (Thu) 14:20:41 No.26479>>26554
2140>>26365
2141> It strikes me that Warp My Mind was intended to be something along these lines but got subsumed by the file sharing aspect.
2142The original WMM site was just static HTML with links to EMGs MP3s. The forums and everything was tacked on later.
2143
2144â–¶hizzo  06/29/17 (Thu) 17:30:37 No.26483>>26504
2145>>26467
2146>I wonder if this a consequence of growing up in a house with many pendulum clocks.
2147The sense of time is also something you can train, so I would say yes. I personally have gotten better at this through my video editing hobby.
2148>So my sense of self is incomplete, then? How to "notice" the rest and expand that "I"?
2149These are much deeper questions than you probably think. Of course it is incomplete. You aren't aware of most of the things that happen with your brain and body. Only a limited amount of processed stimuli is presented to "you" by your animal-part/subconscious/system 1. To you, this is all there is. You can train your awareness of this influence and learn to compensate the biases of your subconscious, but trying to expand your perception would mean changing fundamentally the way your brain works. This is something I do not know anything about BUT this is why projects like >>26237 exist and why OP has shown so much interest in them (I think).
2150> There are other ways to think?
2151Yes and no. More intuitive people will tell you that they don't have a voice in their head. It has a few advantages to think without internal monologue: You are less restricted by your language and can think faster.
2152"Thinking, fast and slow" is about just those subjects. Just like you, I had issues applying my model for thinking to others. This book really opened my eyes. It's meant for the masses so it'll probably bore you quite a bit, but it's a really good introduction to this subject.
2153>The "solo" files won't require you to be alone.
2154That is great ! It adds so much flexibility to your program.
2155
2156â–¶hizzo  06/29/17 (Thu) 17:48:07 No.26484
2157>>26468
2158>Which is exactly what Reddit doesn't have.
2159I didn't know that. I will implement this.
2160>The idea is to be able to interleave suggested alternatives with inline commentary, conceptually similar to interleaved deltas, with an option to extract any particular set of choices as a one-piece script. To keep it reasonable, I suggest that alternatives have sentence granularity.
2161This, of course, is a great idea but I don't know if there is any off-the-shelf way to do this. Does anybody have experience with wikis ? If there is I'll gladly add it.
2162>Only the location of the server, our own identities, and those of our users. A Tor site can be just as open as a regular site. Consider that even Facebook offers a Tor hidden service.
2163I probably won't do this in the beginning as my knowledge of forums is limited to installing the forum and setting up Let's Encrypt. But if it's something I can add later, I'll do it.
2164>JavaScript puts the clients at risk, while PHP puts the server at risk.
2165Well, perhaps you know more than me, but PHP and JS have been, and are being used in the majority of web services there is. Yes, they are messy languages, but if used correctly (Frameworks) they are incredibly robust (especially PHP).
2166phpBB is a tad too easy (No invite only, I dislike BBCode,…) but it could do the job. I'm really open to any suggestions, if somebody knows a better suited project.
2167
2168â–¶Anonymous  06/30/17 (Fri) 08:21:53 No.26503>>26556
2169>> 26484
2170> I will implement this.
2171That's ambiguous. To be clear, I am asking that purely local accounts be permitted, with no connection to anything off-site, not even an email address.
2172> any off-the-shelf way to do this
2173It's basically how discussions work on Wikipedia, but it does require all users to cooperate and follow conventions. Put another way, MediaWiki has the basic support and you would use templates for script fragments and discussions thereon.
2174> something I can add later
2175All you'll need to do is install Tor on the server, configure a hidden service pointed at the Web server on localhost, and ensure that the site will respond to requests for its .onion name.
2176> used in the majority of web services
2177Bandwagon fallacy. JavaScript is pretty much the only option for client-side Web programming, so of course it's widely used, but a forum should not rely on client-side Web programming.
2178> (Frameworks) […] they are incredibly robust (especially PHP)
2179PHP may be safe if you follow the WikiMedia coding standards, but I've run servers with CakePHP-based apps and had to regularly clean out bot infestations.
2180
2181â–¶Anonymous  06/30/17 (Fri) 08:21:55 No.26504>>26506 >>26557 >>26588
2182>>26475
2183> intently focused on caring for the other to the point that their ideas of emotional harm to either party are co-associated with the other.
2184This sounds about right.
2185> It sometimes causes them conflict when they both can't consider things
2186Do I read this correctly as conflict occurs when they are unable to confer before taking a decision?
2187> but their primary focus is on growth for themselves and each other.
2188Yes, this is a goal, perhaps the goal. I live for my mate and for our children.
2189> lack of shared self
2190> desire to be open to each other completely in the most intimate way they can be
2191The idea I had was that a shared self would be complete intimacy, thus satisfying such a desire.
2192>>26483
2193> The sense of time is also something you can train
2194How best to do so? Perhaps ticking clocks in the background in the files? Use rigid word timings from TTS in the same way? Something more direct?
2195> projects like >>26237
2196That's a rabbit hole, but I'll look into it and tell what I've gathered previously at some point.
2197> think without internal monologue
2198How do you do that?
2199> less restricted by your language
2200Which is great, until you want to tell someone else, but I've had enough experiences of having an idea and … just … not … finding … words … to … describe … it … that that is a minor trade-off for me.
2201> "Thinking, fast and slow"
2202Found a 533-page PDF. I'll have to read all of it later, but the parts near the beginning line up nicely with my past observations. I explain the Mueller-Lyer illusion as "the visual system recognizes bounding boxes" and for some reason had little effect from the "conflict" exercise.
2203> adds so much flexibility
2204That's also why I called them "individual-focused" at first: you'll be "alone" in your trance, in the sense that the files only refer to you, but there's no reason an arbitrary group couldn't use them at the same time in the same room. The "couple" files are different because your trance is deepened by staring into your mate's eyes. None of the files will have you doing anything while listening, although some of them may set triggers for a later trance with a memorized script.
2205I'm unsure whether some actions are better done in a "dream" or in reality, later? For example, the current plan for the "equally (psychologically) comfortable whether nude or clothed" involves washing away all of your anxieties, insecurities, shame, etc. from your body. Is it better for this to take place in a "trance dream" or to occur as triggered effects the next time you bathe? I'm specific about "psychologically" comfortable because you'll still want to bundle up in a snowstorm just as much as you'll want shade on a 100+F summer day, and the right clothes can be portable shade. :-)
2206
2207â–¶Anonymous  06/30/17 (Fri) 08:59:12 No.26506>>26507 >>26554 >>26557 >>26597
2208>>26504
2209>How do you do that?
2210don't everyone, most of the time? I only think in internal monologue when I'm supremely bored or when I need to mull something over good, trying to (in my mind) vocalize a train of thoughts and arguments. My "normal" way of thinking doesnt use words. It just… understands? I guess? Like playing badminton. Muscle memory of the brain, no time for words. Data is analyzed and conclusions are reached almost on their own. Well, except, I know I think about it. Just not in words or pictures. I assume(d) this was the case for everyone.
2211
2212â–¶Anonymous  06/30/17 (Fri) 09:09:29 No.26507>>26554 >>26557 >>26597
2213>>26506
2214Couldn't wait for an answer, read some stuff. Kinda weird. I've never considered that people would have that different experience and, er, mode of operation. I mean, I know we differ in talents, application of systems like logic, perspective when viewing a problem, etc. I knew some had a particular mind that lend itself well to art, math or languages. But it never occurred to me that the way thinking as an action or process expressed itself differently between persons. Huh.
2215
2216â–¶Anonymous  06/30/17 (Fri) 09:27:10 No.26509>>26523 >>26554 >>26557 >>26597
2217You chumps… any man who actually hypnotized himself a personal harem would not spend his time on a porn message board.
2218
2219â–¶Anonymous  06/30/17 (Fri) 11:45:31 No.26523>>26554 >>26597
2220>>26509
2221Exactly, Sir. At first this thread was excitingly interesting to me. But as I read that OP claims to live with five (!) hypnotized sex slaves I stopped reading. It's just role play..
2222
2223â–¶Third  07/01/17 (Sat) 07:12:45 No.26554>>26555 >>26558 >>26596 >>26597 >>26620
2224File (hide): 631c46f9acb871f⋯.jpg (198.14 KB, 666x1178, 333:589, darkhatboy_1 no text.jpg) (h) (u)
2225
2226>>26434
2227>the server can spider links and reject posts with links that cannot be determined safe.
2228I should have realized there would be a way. Programming/Web Development is not my forte.
2229>The Tor project
2230This is nice for being secretive but would likely pose a large hurdle for many would-be members. Not many people know how to use Tor, and a lot of those people would likely not even try if there was that obstacle. 
2231While it would promote a willingness to be a part of our community I think it would go too far.
2232>>26466
2233This.
2234>>26473
2235Makes you wonder if hypnosis just attracts a certain kind of person.
2236>>26479
2237I stand corrected. It is admittedly a website I've used only a handful of times.
2238>>26506
2239I can't speak for everyone, but there is never a moment of silence in my head. Since I can remember my process is to create headspace versions of people important to me, often multiple versions representing how I knew their personality and presence at specific times. When making decisions I consult these versions and treat their voting as a strong recommendation. This is part of why I have trouble trancing, because when "I" go into trance on of the others will step to the forefront and wake me up unless I've made the herculean effort to convince them all not to.
2240>>26507
2241As a good followup this is, by my best reckoning, the main reason why people are so often very different when hypnotizing them. To be effective on more than a subset you must be able to tailor your approach to each person. This is also the reason why audio files are hit or miss, without being able to tailor on-the-fly they can only hope to shotgun their approach and get the lowest common denominators.
2242>>26509
2243>>26523
2244Have you ever considered that someone with the ability and mindset to do as I have would want to share their knowledge and experience. Making this thread has not only allowed me to find others who might benefit from my experience but also to learn some things myself.
2245Those who find success do not often do so by walling themselves off from the world.
2246
2247â–¶Third  07/01/17 (Sat) 07:15:45 No.26555>>26558
2248>>26554
2249Two things, first that I'm super pleased with this whole thread and am beyond happy that not only has it been successful but also that I've learned new things from it.
2250Second, the image attached to the last post was a cropped, text-less and slightly edited version of the first image which I made a few days ago.
2251
2252â–¶hizzo  07/01/17 (Sat) 07:19:18 No.26556>>26596
2253>>26503
2254>I am asking that purely local accounts be permitted, with no connection to anything off-site, not even an email address.
2255I will have exactly that. phpBB needs an email address, but I won't check for validation. 
2256> MediaWiki has the basic support and you would use templates for script fragments and discussions thereon.
2257Great, I'll look into it. Thanks! 
2258>All you'll need to do is install Tor on the server
2259I'll also check it out. 
2260> JavaScript is pretty much the only option for client-side Web programming, so of course it's widely used
2261That doesn't make my argument false
2262>but a forum should not rely on client-side Web programming.
2263I agree. 
2264> PHP may be safe if you follow the WikiMedia coding standards, but I've run servers with CakePHP-based apps and had to regularly clean out bot infestations.
2265So it's not then language then but its implementation, and that is an issue with any language. Bot infestations also probably don't come from any exploits but from malicious users, right? Opening signup to only once every two weeks would help minimize this.
2266
2267â–¶hizzo  07/01/17 (Sat) 07:20:17 No.26557>>26597
2268>>26504
2269>How best to do so? Perhaps ticking clocks in the background in the files? 
2270As far as I know, everybody has a very precise intuitive sense of time. Haven't tested, but I read about experiments where subjects where asked to do something exactly one hour (or even more) after coming out of trance, and all of them did trigger really closely to the exact hour mark.
2271To train the conscious sense of time, you would probably need your subject to regularly, consciously, make note of the time it is, allowing the conscious to "calibrate" its sense of time. I guess a suggestion to want to know the time every half hour and then reflect on the feeling of this half hour would be a good starting point. 
2272>I explain the Mueller-Lyer illusion as "the visual system recognizes bounding boxes" and for some reason had little effect from the "conflict" exercise.
2273I listen to the audiobook and don't remember the names. Which one was that? 
2274>The "couple" files are different because your trance is deepened by staring into your mate's eyes. None of the files will have you doing anything while listening, although some of them may set triggers for a later trance with a memorized script.
2275That is a very smart way of organizing things. I wouldn't have thought of it. 
2276>I'm unsure whether some actions are better done in a "dream" or in reality, later?
2277It's all about conditioning in the end, right? So I'd say having both techniques reinforcing each other is the way to go. First, have the mates envision their confortableness, help them feel this. And then, add triggers for them to be consciously reminded of these feelings anytime they take a bath, like you said. You could then make a loop where each time they think about how confortable they are in the bathroom, the memories of the dream make it more effective and every time the mates are in trance, the memories from the bathroom makes them accept this more. 
2278>>26506
2279>don't everyone, most of the time?
2280Yes and no. There are people who almost never formulate thoughts in their mind (typically people who need to "talk to think") and there are people who do most of their thoughts as a constructed mental sentence (people who need half an hour to choose a toothbrush in the store). In the end we're all just between these two extremes. The other anon and I are more on the "structured, but slow" side of the spectrum.
2281I guess you can train to be more analytical by just forcing yourself to think more with your inner voice. If you don't have one, then talk aloud. To train yourself to be more intuitive, I'd say you need to just let yourself go and "follow your gut" more, only thinking about your decisions afterwards, as a way to train "your gut". 
2282>>26507
2283>But it never occurred to me that the way thinking as an action or process expressed itself differently between persons.
2284Why would it have? Our educational and political systems are based on people being fundamentally equal. I know the official wording is "equal in rights", but people don't really make that distinction. All we are ever told is "this person is talented", which isn't very descriptive of the reasons why someone is good at something, but we learn to accept this as a cause, and not the consequence of more complex factors it really is. 
2285>>26509
2286>But as I read that OP claims to live with five (!) hypnotized sex slaves I stopped reading. It's just role play.
2287There is always the possibility that anything on the internet is role-playing. I personally think that OP is saying is true, but even if you think he isn't what he say he is it doesn't mean that there isn't something valuable in this thread.
2288
2289â–¶hizzo  07/01/17 (Sat) 07:27:20 No.26558>>26596
2290>>26555
2291Yes! We even have more and more people participating and that is great.
2292>the image attached to the last post was a cropped, text-less and slightly edited version of the first image which I made a few days ago.
2293Thank you.
2294>>26554
2295>The Tor project
2296Well, if It's just something on top for those who want that, why not.
2297>the server can spider links and reject posts with links that cannot be determined safe.
2298>I should have realized there would be a way. 
2299Well, there is a big asterisk there. The files need to be accessible directly to the server (so no file sharing websites). What file types should I allow?
2300
2301â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/01/17 (Sat) 20:22:00 No.26574
2302>>26394
2303>>26460
2304>>26466
2305>>26473
2306these were posts I made. 
2307I know it's impossible to really claim those posts given the minimal amount of proof, but that's up to you.
2308
2309â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/01/17 (Sat) 20:29:44 No.26575>>26586
2310mistyped the post number, our apologies, hizzo.
2311>>>26460
2312
2313â–¶hizzo  07/02/17 (Sun) 00:54:49 No.26586>>26590
2314>>26575
2315>our apologies, hizzo.
2316Don't worry about it. I would be interested to know how you came to the conclusion that the use of "we" was the right way to go. Are you able to separate your "voices" so much that they sound like different person's?
2317I personally am only intuitively aware of the often contradictory influences in me. If the answer to the first question is yes, did you train this ability consciously or did it happen naturally?
2318
2319â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/02/17 (Sun) 02:34:43 No.26588
2320>>26504
2321>Do I read this correctly as conflict occurs when they are unable to confer before taking a decision?
2322Yes, additionally they also struggle if its a decision that causes them both to be stressed or unsure in the context of future focused decisions that have many perceptibly bad outcomes.
2323My current opinion is that this happens when both are unable to find a solution together or individually that they feel is going to actually produce a positive outcome, and usually they become distressed by such things.
2324
2325â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/02/17 (Sun) 02:43:06 No.26590>>26598 >>26623
2326>>26586
2327> Are you able to separate your "voices" so much that they sound like different person's?
2328We're more or less separate voices, disagreement is common but not often hostile,  but even something that seems discordant can be harmonious in a different view.
2329also we're not the anon who also described a similar mental arrangement. (the point of pointing out our posts and picking a trip was to avoid confusion.
2330
2331â–¶Anonymous  07/02/17 (Sun) 08:35:50 No.26596>>26619
2332>>26554
2333> Programming/Web Development is not my forte.
2334Nor is it the forte of most people who engage in it, looking at the mess the Web is in.
2335>>26556
2336> that is an issue with any language
2337PHP is exceptionally bad about it. Safe PHP is possible, but hard. Most languages make safe code easy.
2338> Bot infestations also probably don't come from exploits but from malicious users, right?
2339Very, very wrong. Some of these apps were semi-internal and accounts were by subscription as part of a very expensive package. "semi-internal" means we were also our own client I'm quite certain that our subscribers weren't putting bots on the servers.
2340> Opening signup to only once every two weeks would help minimize this.
2341No effect expected. Bot infestations happen when you have outdated insecure software. Most PHP code is on a constant security upgrade treadmill, miss too many updates and the script kiddies will play with your server. MediaWiki is one of the few exceptions, because of very careful code review and high standards at WikiMedia. They know they're playing with fire by using PHP.
2342An unrelated option, since using Tor raises the bar for access, is to offer signup more frequently or even continuously for users willing to put forth the effort to use Tor. Don't advertise this, it's just a bonus for using the hidden service.
2343>>26558
2344> files need to be accessible directly to the server (so no file sharing websites)
2345This is a feature, not a bug. Some of the less scammy file sharing websites really do provide direct downloads. To help those sites along, the server should use a wget user-agent string when verifying links. Preventing links to sites that want you to "buy premium" will improve the quality of the forum.
2346> What file types should I allow?
2347I still support "none and the site itself handles text" but will also ask that if you do allow files, to remember less-common formats, like Ogg Vorbis audio.
2348
2349â–¶Anonymous  07/02/17 (Sun) 08:35:50 No.26597>>26620
2350>>26506
2351> trying to (in my mind) vocalize a train of thoughts and arguments
2352For me, that comes without apparent effort.
2353> Data is analyzed and conclusions are reached almost on their own
2354… with a running commentary as the process advances.
2355> Just not in words or pictures.
2356It's … hard to describe … like the words follow the thoughts and appear when the thought is formed, but sometimes … there … are … no … words.
2357>>26507
2358> thinking as an action or process expressed itself differently between persons
2359I'm not entirely sure that it is different. Maybe we just have different perspectives on the same process.
2360>>26509 and >>26523
2361You know what? Whether OP is telling the truth doesn't matter. Read the thread. We're having interesting conversations anyway. Go read something else if reasonable discussion triggers you so much.
2362>>26554
2363> never a moment of silence in my head
2364This is why I am so curious about thinking without words. It's an alien experience to me.
2365> headspace versions of people
2366I recognize them as reflections, and I think that they're aspects of "me" playing roles. I can set them aside, but conversations often start unbidden.
2367> lowest common denominators
2368Could a "least common multiple" approach work?
2369>>26557
2370> train the conscious sense of time
2371So lasting latent triggers to remember the time, then. There's no way for the conscious mind to more directly tap into that well-developed intuitive sense of time? Is that sense really so well-developed? Were there any clocks in the rooms with the subjects in those studies?
2372> I listen to the audiobook and don't remember the names.
2373Those are visual figures. They won't be in the audiobook, and I don't want to spoil the results of trying them yourself.
2374> very smart way of organizing things
2375I see it as a matter of necessity: you can't move around too much while wearing headphones.
2376> both techniques reinforcing each other
2377This is probably a good idea, although making sure that the "trance dream" stays a "dream" and doesn't produce actual movement could be troublesome.
2378> mates envision their comfortableness […]
2379Except that that's from one of the individual files, and I really want the explicit effects from the early files to fade as goals are met and the effects become part of your personality, leaving room for much more interesting effects for you to share with your mate. And "comfort" is implicit by the lack of shame, embarrassment, etc. about your body.
2380
2381â–¶Anonymous  07/02/17 (Sun) 08:39:40 No.26598>>26599
2382>>26590
2383> We're more or less separate voices
2384… wait … how many arms do you have?
2385
2386â–¶Tana!h2AQRb/GTo  07/02/17 (Sun) 08:43:02 No.26599>>26623
2387>>26598
2388Can you rephrase your question?
2389Though since my body has no  major appendage deformations the objective and literal answer  is two arms.
2390
2391â–¶hizzo  07/03/17 (Mon) 06:37:28 No.26619>>26625
2392>>26596
2393>Very, very wrong. Some of these apps were semi-internal and accounts were by subscription as part of a very expensive package. I'm quite certain that our subscribers weren't putting bots on the servers.
2394So using exploits to create bot accounts. Thanks for the heads up, I will keep my stuff up to date.
2395>This is a feature, not a bug. Some of the less scammy file sharing websites really do provide direct downloads. To help those sites along, the server should use a wget user-agent string when verifying links. Preventing links to sites that want you to "buy premium" will improve the quality of the forum.
2396This wouldn't guarantee that the file doesn't change over time, for instance. Self-hosting would probably be better, if I want/can make it work.
2397>I still support "none and the site itself handles text" but will also ask that if you do allow files, to remember less-common formats, like Ogg Vorbis audio.
2398Yes, I am on the same side as you on this one, but I want to know from those who are in favor of file sharing to tell me what content they want to see white-listed. I'm still open to the idea.
2399So I'm moving towards a debian server with apache2, php7 and MySQL which run phpBB and Mediawiki with the same user DB. I hope to have a working proof of concept in the next 2 weeks. I haven't looked into tor yet but I will.
2400I'd like to know from the people who have more experience with anonymity: How do I buy the domain without people knowing who I am ? Is WHOIS privacy enough? How risky is it if I give the VPS hosting company my credit card, name and address ?
2401I'm probably just very naive, but the website shouldn't be illegal in any country, right ? I'm aware of things like Popcorn time who are technically legal but still got in trouble so I'm unsure…
2402
2403â–¶hizzo  07/03/17 (Mon) 06:38:02 No.26620>>26626
2404>>26597
2405>>26554
2406> never a moment of silence in my head
2407The few times I really tranced, there was always a few seconds of inner silence. My voice would come back after those seconds, but it was a nice feeling. A more "active" time where I have much less internal dialog is when I'm high on adrenalin because of a deadline for instance. I suddenly am able to just take decisions without formulating them and am much faster. The adrenalin itself helps to think faster and focus, but I think the pressure I put onto myself in such situations allows me to simply skip my inner voice (which acts as a safety check for my thoughts). I always enjoy the feeling of incredible speed that is associated with this state.
2408>There's no way for the conscious mind to more directly tap into that well-developed intuitive sense of time?
2409Perhaps by using a trigger that the subject can trigger himself to just "feel" when X minutes are done ?
2410>Is that sense really so well-developed?
2411I'll have to find the source for this.
2412>Were there any clocks in the rooms with the subjects in those studies?
2413I don't think so, that would have invalidated the experiment. But I do not remember exactly.
2414>Those are visual figures. They won't be in the audiobook
2415They are, in a separate pdf. You mean the one with the two columns ? Well, I probably wasn't as effected as most people, but the intuitive reflex is still present. Only my consciousness of it can help me correct this.
2416
2417â–¶Anonymous  07/03/17 (Mon) 08:23:02 No.26623>>26653
2418>>26599
2419> Can you rephrase your question?
2420The question was meant literally.
2421> literal answer is two arms
2422One of my voices suggested that you might be the sort of "shared self" that I had previously envisioned: a common mind across two bodies. I asked how many arms you have as a proxy for asking how many heads you span. Your answer was expected and shows that you're in one body and that the long shot was the expected miss.
2423The discussion in this thread has gotten me to notice more about how I think, and I've noticed that my "voices" sometimes speak wordlessly. Most of the time, I can't really distinguish between such "wordless" statements and "normal" statements, unless I try to write them down or speak them aloud. The "normal" statements flow easily to air, keyboard, or paper, but the "wordless" statements just … stop. The strange question was the first way I could think of to write that.
2424>>26590
2425> picking a trip was to avoid confusion
2426But that confusion is exactly one of the benefits of anonymous discussions, something /pol/ calls a "hivemind" effect. Please note that I've only referred to post numbers, even when responding to people that use names. A successful "hivemind" can produce results that none of its participants could achieve individually, while benefiting all involved. I'll admit that there are ways it can go wrong, such as excessive samefagging or shill attacks, but usually "thread-minds" produce interesting results.
2427
2428â–¶Anonymous  07/03/17 (Mon) 08:28:12 No.26625
2429>>26619
2430> using exploits to create bot accounts
2431No, just dropping bots on the server under the httpd user. As in exploiting the site for code execution on the server. Obviously catastrophic for privacy of data on the server if the attacker wants, but most of the bots I nuked were spam/ddos zombies.
2432> This wouldn't guarantee that the file doesn't change over time
2433You're right, but it will keep the worst of the cancer at bay.
2434
2435â–¶Anonymous  07/03/17 (Mon) 08:52:54 No.26626>>26654 >>26694
2436>>26620
2437> I always enjoy the feeling of incredible speed that is associated with this state.
2438My inner voice is "faster" than any physical speech, much as I can read faster than I can listen. It's also faster than I can type and I always proofread comments because missed words are a common typo for me.
2439> Perhaps by using a trigger
2440I was wondering if there is some way more direct than using triggers. Whenever you intentionally put a thought aside for some specific amount of time, you remember that thought again as soon as the amount of time you wanted to wait has passed. isn't more direct, but might be useful.
2441> I'll have to find the source for this.
2442Please do. It sounds interesting to me.
2443> would have invalidated the experiment
2444Clocks are common enough and innocuous enough that even honest and vigilant experimenters could overlook them.
2445> the one with the two columns ?
2446The Mueller-Lyer illusion is the two horizontal lines with "fins" on them. I think you're describing the "conflict" exercise.
2447And that gave me an idea:
2448What does this thread think of a personal-use sleep trigger? Perhaps like Whenever you intentionally think to yourself "I will awaken in _ after going to sleep now" with any amount of time in the blank and close your eyes, your body immediately relaxes into a deep, restful sleep, almost oblivious to the outside world. You can wake up early if you must, but you always snap awake fully rested and refreshed after the amount of time you specify. You remember that you can do this whenever you go to bed intending to sleep.
2449The important part is that you must be able to wake up if, for example, a fire alarm is going off, or someone else is trying to wake you, but should be able to ignore other distractions, even very loud noises, such as a passing train with horn.
2450
2451â–¶Tana!h2AQRb/GTo  07/03/17 (Mon) 22:07:02 No.26653>>26662
2452>>26623
2453>One of my voices suggested that you might be the sort of "shared self" that I had previously envisioned: a common mind across two bodies. I asked how many arms you have as a proxy for asking how many heads you span. Your answer was expected and shows that you're in one body and that the long shot was the expected miss.
2454 
2455oh, if you meant in shared bodies 12 arms. though only 4   are closely felt right now.
2456
2457â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/03/17 (Mon) 22:19:04 No.26654>>26662
2458>>26626
2459>>One of my voices suggested that you might be the sort of "shared self" that I had previously envisioned: a common mind across two bodies. I asked how many arms you have as a proxy for asking how many heads you span. Your answer was expected and shows that you're in one body and that the long shot was the expected miss.
2460We're often subject to the scrutiny of people who don't understand such things as shared bodies or whatever, the immediate response was 4, then corrected because of another voice's suggestion that it was  probably a literal question.
2461
2462â–¶Anonymous  07/04/17 (Tue) 08:24:40 No.26662>>26678
2463>>26653
2464> in shared bodies 12 arms. though only 4 are closely felt right now.
2465Do I correctly interpret that you're a shared mind spanning 6 bodies, two of which were present when you wrote that?
2466>>26654
2467> We're often subject to the scrutiny of people who don't understand such things as shared bodies or whatever,
2468Well, more like a shared mind if I gather correctly.
2469> the immediate response was 4, then corrected because of another voice's suggestion that it was probably a literal question.
2470It was literal: I expected that a shared self would see all of its elements as a unitary whole. I hadn't thought that social pressures would cause a shared mind to hide its nature.
2471The questions trip over each other searching for words…
2472How do you maintain synchronization? For that matter, do you maintain synchronization or do your elements mostly act independently except when together?
2473Do your "voices" each correspond to physical bodies? Multiple "voices" from each? Are "you" localized to one body in the group or have different sets of hands been typing your different replies in this thread? Is the near-double-post of >>26653 and >>26654 a result of two "voices" typing separate replies?
2474For that matter, how did you come to be? Perhaps your individual voices can answer that one if you as a whole don't remember.
2475
2476â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/04/17 (Tue) 21:24:11 No.26678>>26731
2477>>26662
2478>How do you maintain synchronization?
2479 trust and complete communication, sometimes it results in harm or indecision, but life isn't perfect.
2480> do you maintain synchronization or do your elements mostly act independently except when together?
2481there's a generalized synchronization because of how we think being the same, but it's directly visible when we're together and not hiding it, we still have preferences and disagreements over minor things like food.
2482>Do your "voices" each correspond to physical bodies? Multiple "voices" from each? 
2483Multiple voices from each in most cases, we're synchronized across each physical body though, it can be tiring when far apart form each other.
2484>Are "you" localized to one body in the group or have different sets of hands been typing your different replies in this thread? 
2485while there's a chance another body will type something,they mostly use other imageboards, so just only body here.
2486
2487â–¶hizzo  07/05/17 (Wed) 07:31:48 No.26694>>26705 >>26731
2488File (hide): 9a14bfb257c6804⋯.jpg (435.27 KB, 1960x3056, 245:382, 05_07_2017 07_08 Office Le….jpg) (h) (u)
2489
2490>>26626
2491> I'll have to find the source for this.
2492My mistake, I didn't read about this in a scientific study, but the book of a Stage Hypnotist: The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism by Ormond McGill. I have attached the passage in the book where he talks about this. There is a footnote that states: "You will find that some subjects relate to the sense of time better than others". I guess it still means my point about our unconscious knowing the time is valid.
2493
2494â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/05/17 (Wed) 12:44:55 No.26705>>26707 >>26741
2495>>26694
2496hello hizzo
2497
2498â–¶hizzo  07/05/17 (Wed) 13:46:21 No.26707>>26731
2499>>26705
2500Hello, Tana. I don't have any new question that hadn't been asked by our anon friend, so let me say this: I believe that, in some way, sharing bodies/minds IS the next step in the evolution. By creating a small group of people who are united not through interest, but by purpose, you become able to achieve things that are unthinkable to the lone human. 
2501I have ended up with a personality that is far to dominant to really allow me to participate in such a practice, but I admire your way of life.
2502And to the skeptics who will tell me that Tana is obviously a roleplayer: I do not know, it's always possible, but I prefer to think it's true.
2503
2504â–¶Anonymous  07/06/17 (Thu) 08:21:06 No.26731>>26740 >>26741
2505>>26678
2506Let's define a term since we are trying to discuss an experience that doesn't seem to have standard vocabulary in English: you (if I read your posts correctly) are span-6, while I (despite having several "me" voices) am span-1, one of the original goals was that pair-bonded couples should be span-2. Is that usage in context enough to define the term for you?
2507> how we think being the same
2508Is this a fortunate coincidence? How did your bodies meet? After your bodies met, how did you form? I'm trying to find ways to generalize your success, but I feel like a whale in a sling under an airplane.
2509> we're synchronized across each physical body though
2510Does that mean that "the same voice" speaks from multiple bodies? Are the voices localized to particular bodies or are they also shared?
2511> it can be tiring when far apart
2512Tiring how? Please explain.
2513> just only body here
2514I observe two "Tana" tripcodes in this thread. Are those the effect of different bodies participating or simply mistakes in posting?
2515>>26694
2516> footnote that states: "You will find that some subjects relate to the sense of time better than others"
2517> point about our unconscious knowing the time is valid
2518…
2519The biggest problem with stage hypnosis is that stage hypnotists get to sieve their subjects. Often they'll start with a fairly large pool of volunteers, then reduce it to only the most suggestible. Great for a performance, but not so good for self-improvement files that are supposed to be generally useful.
2520That said, I suspect that the sense of time is trainable, so the answer is probably to find some way to improve it. Then everyone can have their own mental "alarm clock" to wake them up. :-)
2521>>26707
2522> sharing bodies/minds IS the next step in the evolution
2523It's certainly interesting. :-)
2524> personality that is far too dominant to really allow me to participate in such a practice
2525We might actually be able to fix that. :-)
2526> to the skeptics
2527I believe >>25465 was also you? I'll admit that I believed your concerns until now presented with an example.
2528
2529â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/06/17 (Thu) 19:08:51 No.26740>>26756
2530>>26731
2531>one of the original goals was that pair-bonded couples should be span-2. Is that usage in context enough to define the term for you?
2532although we span six bodies most of us form something similar to your span-2 definition with another body. this doesn't really mean we're more connected to that other body, but it means we're effectively in a similar relationship that you described as span-2.
2533>Is this a fortunate coincidence? How did your bodies meet? After your bodies met, how did you form? I'm trying to find ways to generalize your success, but I feel like a whale in a sling under an airplane.
2534we feel that being the same is just how we are, similar interests, communicative behaviours and physical interaction patterns, similar in even negative reactions or mental state. We've always been how we are, the difference is  bodies finding each other and starting.
2535>Does that mean that "the same voice" speaks from multiple bodies? Are the voices localized to particular bodies or are they also shared?
2536We speak from many bodies, but there are other voices localized to our other bodies as a matter of surviving individual traits that they chose to retain.
2537>I observe two "Tana" tripcodes in this thread. Are those the effect of different bodies participating or simply mistakes in posting?
2538accidentally hit a text expansion shortcut  and caused a (literal) trip in our tripcode.
2539
2540â–¶hizzo  07/06/17 (Thu) 19:29:20 No.26741>>26742 >>26756
2541>>26731
2542>It's certainly interesting. :-)
2543Yeah, it's pushing to your span-2 concept so much further. than you imagined. I quite enjoy the idea of small communities like Tana are doing. 
2544>We might actually be able to fix that. :-)
2545Well, you just need to tell me to listen to the Bambi files again :D
2546Kidding aside, what I meant was that I have a strong inner voice which wants me to be in control. This part of me wouldn't completely let got without a fight. Everything is always possible though.
2547> I believe >>25465 (You) was also you? I'll admit that I believed your concerns until now presented with an example.
2548Absolutely. My horizon was widened and in light of the new informations I totally agree that my arguments are now worthless. And even if Tana didn't exist, the way they talked about themselves made me realize it was possible. I still think they tell the truth though.
2549>>26705
2550Why the message ? I'm curious.
2551
2552â–¶Tana!!.z3iu.wmQU  07/06/17 (Thu) 20:14:45 No.26742>>26747 >>26756
2553>>26741
2554> I have a strong inner voice which wants me to be in control. This part of me wouldn't completely let got without a fight. 
2555we've had some insight into this, we love control, but usually our span-2 partnered bodies end up fighting for control and losing to each other, it's some form of entertainment, because we're good at controlling people, happens passively in daily interaction even.
2556>Why the message ? I'm curious.
2557to draw your attention to our being present in the thread at that time.
2558
2559â–¶hizzo  07/06/17 (Thu) 21:14:45 No.26747>>26756
2560>>26742
2561>end up fighting for control and losing to each other, it's some form of entertainment, 
2562Now that's something I can get behind. I deeply enjoy arguing with somebody over an unimportant subject to establish domination. The one who argues the best wins. I love it as a game, but most people just think I am nitpicky and aggressive.
2563>because we're good at controlling people, happens passively in daily interaction even.
2564I am impressed, again and again, at how easy it is to influence people. Just reproduce their body language and they'll tell you everything. Tell them the words they want to hear and they'll do whatever you want. Even without hypnosis or nlp. Humans really have deep urges to follow and adapt. I'm still quite young and am learning to control this ability of mine, so perhaps one day I will get jaded, but for now, I'm still amazed daily.
2565I do not know anybody capable of debating with me head to head. I know incredibly smart people, but none of them self-conscious as I am. It makes me happy to know that you have found others (who are now you) who share the same interest. It gives me hope.
2566On a side note, until a few weeks ago I though I was the only one I knew who was able to read people very accurately and adapt to them. It turned out that my mother also has this ability but decided to hide it completely from everybody and not really use it, except with my father who hasn't the faintest idea why his wife is "just like the wife I always wanted". So I guess that our ability to perceive and influence others is something that can be learned from a young age, even if it's subconscious.
2567>to draw your attention to our being present in the thread at that time.
2568I read your messages with great interest but didn't see a valid reason for me to interact with you except to focus the attention on myself. I was (and still am) quite intrigued by this message. Upon reading it, my imagination of course immediately started creating improbable stories on why you would write these words. However, the most probable reason (to me) is that you just wanted me to write stuff like what I wrote, keeping the thread alive, and, ultimately, focusing the attention on you (which isn't a bad thing, on the contrary).
2569Awareness of a possible direct effort to make somebody do something isn't enough to stop said person from doing the thing.
2570
2571â–¶Anonymous  07/07/17 (Fri) 08:21:26 No.26756>>26767
2572>>26740
2573> effectively in a similar relationship that you described as span-2
2574Interesting. So you are a (span-6) hextet that also contains (span-2) pairs? Do the pairs overlap? That is, are any of your bodies in more than one pair? How do you recognize the pairs? Are some of your voices localized to pairs?
2575> the difference is bodies finding each other and starting
2576Please elaborate. I'm trying to learn more of your history in hopes that it will help me understand you. Was there ever an intentional decision to form a group mind? Did you just "fall into place" after your bodies met? How did your bodies meet?
2577> surviving individual traits that they chose to retain
2578Were these intentional conscious choices, or did some traits simply not assimilate into the group?
2579>>26741
2580> listen to the Bambi files again
2581That's not the right way to fix that.
2582> I have a strong inner voice which wants me to be in control. This part of me wouldn't completely let got without a fight.
2583That actually makes this easier. There's no "letting go" involved. The better approach is to share that part of you with the nascent group mind and combine it with similar parts from the other bodies. You'll experience the group mind's influence on you as your influence on yourself. Expand yourself instead of erasing yourself.
2584> in light of the new informations I totally agree that my arguments are now worthless
2585I had previously considered the idea of larger groups, but thought that span-2 between mates was the most feasible. This "Tana" seems to be a counterexample, so I'll piece that back together. I'm tentatively thinking about three levels.
2586>>26742
2587> partnered bodies end up fighting for control and losing to each other, it's some form of entertainment
2588I laughed when I read that and imagined two people telling each other to do something, then getting funny looks on their faces as they each find themselves doing what the other wanted. Entertaining, yes, very.
2589>>26747
2590> The one who argues the best wins. I love it as a game, but most people just think I am nitpicky and aggressive.
2591I used to love that game too, but people around me seem to prefer to not play anymore and either agree or just yell at me. :-(
2592The big difference is that I see it as cooperation instead of dominance: a proper argument (debate) should end with all parties better informed than they were at the start. People still get mad for some reason after I explain this. (Which also means that I may concede an argument one day, then come back another day with more evidence.)
2593> except with my father who hasn't the faintest idea why his wife is "just like the wife I always wanted"
2594She used that ability well, then. :-)
2595 – – 
2596The big problem I see with group minds is that they are subject to linguistic determinism, while span-1 minds suffer only from linguistic influence. Finding a way for a group mind to hold thoughts that cannot be expressed in language would be important. Any ideas?
2597
2598â–¶hizzo  07/07/17 (Fri) 17:51:52 No.26767>>26784
2599>>26756
2600>Expand yourself instead of erasing yourself.
2601As I have never experienced this, I can only trust you on this. My controlling part is, of course, denying what you say, but that doesn't mean anything. 
2602>This "Tana" seems to be a counterexample, so I'll piece that back together. I'm tentatively thinking about three levels.
2603Tana aren't a counter example. The fact that they are in couples within the group makes me think that you still are on the right track. You could perhaps expand the program later to allow for couples to form larger other groups. 
2604Tana are quite self conscious and perhaps you need this in order to achieve span-(2+n). If your program aims at the broader population it may not work. 
2605>Finding a way for a group mind to hold thoughts that cannot be expressed in language would be important. Any ideas?
2606I guess you do it the same way old couples don't need to speak to understand what the other means: spend time together, learn the way the other expresses feelings without words and learn to react to it. It can work with any number of people, as long as they are intimate enough.
2607>The big difference is that I see it as cooperation instead of dominance: a proper argument (debate) should end with all parties better informed than they were at the start. 
2608Your point is correct, but in the context where you "gamify" the debate, it becomes about winning/dominating (In the playful sense of the word). When such a debate is well executed and both parties are aware of the rules, it can create a lot of intimacy both parties having to show some vulnerabilities. But as you said most people just protect themselves because they feel that if they open up, you'll run them over without them being able to argue back. 
2609>People still get mad for some reason after I explain this.
2610That's because telling people "don't take it personally" doesn't work. Most people aren't able to distinguish their ideas and works from "them". This can be exploited quite easily if you compliment the work or idea of somebody in order to be liked by said person. Just make them think you didn't know who had the idea you compliment.
2611–
2612To get back to the subject of this thread: I listened to a few files in German (without following them) and I realized that the German language has no word for "mind". This is quite problematic and the hypnotists have to constantly use approximations. It's funny once you realize it.
2613Also, here's a question to the people who have hypnotized people for their first time (the first time of the subject): Did some freak out, in a bad way, when realizing they couldn't remember their name or couldn't separate their hands ? I imagine it could happen, but perhaps people who would react that way just don't accept the suggestion in the first place…
2614
2615â–¶Anonymous  07/08/17 (Sat) 08:24:19 No.26784>>26793
2616>>26767
2617> As I have never experienced this
2618I haven't experienced it either. I barely understand it. Why else would I feel like a whale in a sling under an airplane?
2619> My controlling part is, of course, denying what you say
2620This sounds like that isn't really you after all, but rather your fears talking. I'm not quite sure what you are fearing, but that response sounds like fear to me.
2621> Tana aren't a counter example.
2622I wonder if it means something that you're treating "Tana" as plural, while I see "Tana" as a singular collective?
2623> you still are on the right track
2624Thanks.
2625> expand the program later to allow for couples to form larger other groups
2626This is now planned, but still pretty vague: level 0 for personal development, level 1 for pair bonding, level 2 for ??? I don't even have a name for it yet.
2627> Tana are quite self conscious and perhaps you need this
2628Can self-consciousness be taught? Can it be suggested?
2629> If your program aims at the broader population it may not work.
2630So some people can only achieve level 1, then. I'll have to find some way for the level 2 group dynamics to still work even if some "members" aren't really full members. I suspect that groups would try to nurture such candidates, but would eventually have to send prospects that "just don't get it" on their way with great sadness. Now I'm really hoping that all people (aside from literal retards incapable of trance) can at least achieve pair bonding, or is that the next of my dreams you'll shatter? :-)
2631> learn the way the other expresses feelings without words
2632So, essentially, the solution to group minds being subject to linguistic determinism is for group minds to develop their own languages in which all of their thoughts can be expressed?
2633This really complicates the larger groups, since the plan is that couples should be able to move between groups as needed. Or should larger groups be allowed to be subject to linguistic determinism, while couples form their own languages? Or, since couples can move between groups, should such "mobile couples" also serve as meme carriers, bringing elements of their previous group's language to their new group?
2634> it becomes about winning/dominating (In the playful sense of the word)
2635…
2636I never really cared much about sports but I'm pretty much surrounded by people who worship at the High Temple of the Holy Football. Your comment reminded me of something I've read about sports: To lose symbolizes death, and it certainly feels like dying, but it is not death…
2637I'd never thought that other people could see losing a debate as emotionally similar to death. …
2638That explains a lot. …
2639…
2640The world is insane, isn't it?
2641
2642â–¶hizzo  07/08/17 (Sat) 15:47:12 No.26793>>26814
2643>>26784
2644>I'm not quite sure what you are fearing, but that response sounds like fear to me.
2645Easy, the fear of ridicule, shame. I fear others judging me. Wasn't that evident ? ;)
2646>I wonder if it means something that you're treating "Tana" as plural, while I see "Tana" as a singular collective?
2647They talk that way about themselves too. It only seemed fit to respect their wording.
2648>Can self-consciousness be taught? Can it be suggested?
2649Sadly, if I knew, I wouldn't have doubted that Tana can exist in the first place.
2650>So, essentially, the solution to group minds being subject to linguistic determinism is for group minds to develop their own languages in which all of their thoughts can be expressed?
2651Not all of their thoughts. Being able to express with great precision the thoughts in your head would already minimize greatly the need for this. I guess it would be something gradual, where less and less words are needed.
2652>the plan is that couples should be able to move between groups as needed.
2653If couples can change group whenever they want, how can they have intimacy and understanding of the other ? Of course, you can suggest it to them, but real intimacy takes time. I think. I'm really pushing my almost nonexistent experience to it's limits here.
2654>should larger groups be allowed to be subject to linguistic determinism, while couples form their own languages?
2655This would seem more reasonable, even though I don't understand why you want couples to move between groups.
2656>Or, since couples can move between groups, should such "mobile couples" also serve as meme carriers, bringing elements of their previous group's language to their new group?
2657So now you plan to create an alternate society, right ? :P
2658>I'd never thought that other people could see losing a debate as emotionally similar to death. …
2659I never said that. There is a difference between life and death domination and playful, light domination. When you play a game with somebody, you play for fun, but the winner gets the right to a slight feeling of superiority towards the other.
2660
2661â–¶Anonymous  07/09/17 (Sun) 08:22:26 No.26814>>26816
2662>>26793
2663> I fear others judging me.
2664Even if that judging is for your own improvement? The well-being and improvement of its members is obviously in the interest of a group mind.
2665> Being able to express with great precision the thoughts in your head would already minimize greatly the need for this.
2666Any ideas how to teach this?
2667> couples can change group whenever they want
2668It's not that flippant: couples can change group when needed, like if they need to move away, or when it is overall better for the groups, like a couple that has specialized skills that are in excess in one group and another group lacks entirely, but you feel a deep loyalty to your group and don't really want to change. You can if you must.
2669> how can they have intimacy and understanding of the other ? Of course, you can suggest it to them […]
2670Feelings of intimacy can be suggested, but actual understanding must develop over time.
2671> I don't understand why you want couples to move between groups
2672Because pairing off with your mate is for life, and society accepts a notion of indissoluble families. Larger groups need more flexibility to enable them and their members to adapt, although a group is effectively an extended family linked by memetic instead of genetic relation, but that metaphor continues to break down as groups cooperate, aside from friendly competition to find better ways of doing things, which all involved then adopt.
2673> So now you plan to create an alternate society, right ? :P
2674Anonymity tempers megalomania. X-D
2675Not so much an alternate society as a closely-knit society-within-society, but more flexible than, say, the Amish.
2676> There is a difference between life and death domination and playful, light domination. When you play a game with somebody, you play for fun
2677People here take their sports WAY too seriously. I think it bleeds into other games, too. :-(
2678
2679â–¶hizzo  07/09/17 (Sun) 11:57:11 No.26816>>26852
2680>>26814
2681>Even if that judging is for your own improvement? The well-being and improvement of its members is obviously in the interest of a group mind.
2682It was implied that this fear is irrational. No logical reasoning can stop in, only new conditioning.
2683>Any ideas how to teach this?
2684It comes back to the ability to self-reflect, to find the true reasons behind what you do and want.
2685>Not so much an alternate society as a closely-knit society-within-society, but more flexible than, say, the Amish.
2686I think you overestimate the number of people who will use your program. Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, but I don't think that that many groups could just form like that. Shibby has tried a file for couples and got only a few responses. I know it was for a specific fetish, but still. The Mind Doll FAQ thread seems to indicate that there is only one person on this board that had the resolve to go through with the program. So the group of couples who like hypnosis and who are willing to invest a few months into a program is probably not as big as you seem to think.  Or are you hoping to spread your program to the normies ?
2687>People here take their sports WAY too seriously. I think it bleeds into other games, too. :-(
2688I believe that all games have a cathartic value. When people take something "way too seriously", it's more a proxy for them to feel strong emotions. There is nothing wrong with that in principle. The real reason for your feelings is probably the attitude some people have against others who aren't into the game.
2689
2690â–¶Anonymous  07/09/17 (Sun) 17:13:43 No.26821
2691Do your best to make hypno great again
2692
2693â–¶Anonymous  07/10/17 (Mon) 08:22:48 No.26852>>26927
2694>>26816
2695> No logical reasoning can stop in, only new conditioning.
2696Exactly how we might be able to fix it. :-)
2697> comes back to the ability to self-reflect
2698Any ideas how to improve that ability?
2699> overestimate the number of people who will use your program
2700It's still important to me that the program could be widely used, even if it ends up only filling a niche. That also means that it must "fit" no matter how many (or few) people around you also use it.
2701> it was for a specific fetish
2702And by an individual that has attracted a bit of … controversy, even if undeserved.
2703> Mind Doll FAQ thread seems to indicate that there is only one person on this board that had the resolve to go through with the program
2704Making tulpas is also a much bigger "hill to climb" than I plan.
2705> willing to invest a few months into a program
2706A year is actually the planned timeline, since the accompanying physical changes (the results of regular exercise together) take time. That said, I plan to structure it so that there are regular rewards along the way. It's not like the big payoff is only at the top of the mountain: climbing is fun, too. And you don't have to be a couple to use the individual-focused parts of the program, either.
2707> spread your program to the normies
2708While I don't plan to directly push it broadly, explicit permission to share it will be granted. Sooner or later, someone will end up giving it to a normie, I can't really prevent that.
2709> attitude some people have against others who aren't into the game
2710So the reactions I get are because I don't like spending hours watching grown men chase a ball?
2711 – – 
2712So now I have:
2713level 0: trance practice; advance to level 1 when you can start a session and "immediately" wake up after it's over
2714level 1: personal development; body comfort, exercise (individual), possibly a course in lojban (a language designed to exploit linguistic influence to favor rational thinking), etc.
2715level 2: pair bonding; strengthen attraction to mate, exercise (couple), ???
2716level 3: ???; larger groups (still needs a name)
2717
2718â–¶hizzo  07/12/17 (Wed) 20:43:28 No.26927>>26948
2719>>26852
2720>Any ideas how to improve that ability?
2721Not really. I would assume, as I already said, that training somebody to be more aware and to think more consciously could work.
2722>It's still important to me that the program could be widely used
2723Are you sure that a wide usage wouldn't have a negative effect ? If we start to attract more people into the community, more hate will come and that could destroy the trust needed. I don't know…
2724>Making tulpas is also a much bigger "hill to climb" than I plan.
2725How so ? Most of the effort in the Mind Doll Program is training your ability to trance. Once you have that the Mind Doll also has nice sub-goals (Experiencing worlds). Perhaps what makes your project easier is the fact that there is some social pressure (from your mate) to continue.
2726>I can't really prevent that.
2727True, but there are ways you can influence that. I'm not sure about this. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
2728>So the reactions I get are because I don't like spending hours watching grown men chase a ball?
2729The game itself is irrelevant. It just needs to be an excuse to feel emotions. Everybody loves something that has no direct value but makes you feel good. Once you realize this, you can have fun with everybody, regardless of what you are doing.
2730Also be careful of how you phrase things. People tend to take things personally very fast when you talk about their passions. So even a "Oh, this doesn't interest me" can be interpreted as an aggression.
2731>level 0: trance practice; advance to level 1 when you can start a session and "immediately" wake up after it's over
2732So the same as Talmadge Harpers Ultra Depth script ? The way he formulates it is having blackouts, which is, to me at least, clearer on the goal.
2733>level 1: personal development; body comfort, exercise (individual)
2734Good, although it's, up to this point, just vanilla self-help hypnosis.
2735>possibly a course in lojban (a language designed to exploit linguistic influence to favor rational thinking)
2736Do you really think that learning a language that only you and perhaps your mate can say some stuff in is a good investment of mental energy ?
2737>level 2: pair bonding; strengthen attraction to mate, exercise (couple), ???
2738+1
2739>level 3: ???; larger groups (still needs a name)
2740This can come later. Imagine you release everything up until level two, that still gives you a good year before even the first couples would be able to have a use for lvl 3 files.
2741
2742â–¶Anonymous  07/13/17 (Thu) 08:29:58 No.26948
2743>>26927
2744> wide usage wouldn't have a negative effect ?
2745That's something I've been considering. Some stuff that I could put in the files is off the table because of this.
2746> If we start to attract more people into the community, more hate will come
2747Why do you say this? (Also a big reason for the files to be self-contained, if people want more/other/different, let them find it on their own.)
2748> How so ?
2749I'm not trying to make ongoing all-sense hallucinations with their own apparent sentience, as tulpas are.
2750> Most of the effort in the Mind Doll Program is training your ability to trance.
2751That's only the first hill in that program. The worlds are another hill, then the tulpas.
2752> some social pressure (from your mate) to continue
2753At level 2 and beyond, yes, but levels 0 and 1 can be used alone. I'm trying to make them "minimally intrusive" so you'll have very little reason to abandon the program. Keeping with it is simply convenient. Of course, if you're doing with the whole thing starting from level 0 with your mate, you might help each other along, since it's something to do together. :-)
2754> ways you can influence that
2755Currently, I'm leaning towards leaving most of that to individual judgment: you think of sharing the files with people that you think would be helped by using them as you were helped.
2756> The game itself is irrelevant. […] even a "Oh, this doesn't interest me" can be interpreted as an aggression.
2757Thanks, that gives me a lot to think about.
2758> same as Talmadge Harpers Ultra Depth script ?
2759It's essentially my take on the concept, yes.
2760> The way he formulates it is having blackouts, which is, to me at least, clearer on the goal.
2761I'm somewhat concerned about possible connotations associated with the word "blackout" even though it is descriptive of the goal. This is another difference, much of Harper's work is both getting to deep trance and then remembering events experienced in trance. Since I'm not trying to put "trance dreams" into conscious memory, I think my project has easier goals. I'll keep reading, I may find evidence that shows me wrong.
2762> just vanilla self-help hypnosis
2763Or, as I like to call it: "a good start" :-) I see this as a good introduction and a good way to build the trust needed for the rest of the series to work.
2764> Do you really learning a language that only you and perhaps your mate can say some stuff in is a investment of mental energy ?
2765For its own sake? No. (Also consider the investment in writing those scripts.) The important part is that Lojban has a grammer derived from mathematical logic. This is a means to push people towards rational thought by using linguistic influence. Also, if people who have been through the program can speak Lojban, an otherwise rare language, that could help larger groups to weed out impostors who might seek to exploit them.
2766> This can come later.
2767In some ways, but I don't want problems between it and the lower levels, so, at a minimum, it must be planned out. Already, I've had a change "feed back" from level 3 to level 1: the possible use of Lojban to help groups avoid infiltration by freeloaders.
2768
2769
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