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1[01:41] Cynical: @Officers would like a meeting tomorrow to discuss some ideas ive had for guild growth/development. (Officers without rl rank)
2[02:02] absolve: so, @Officers with @Raid Officers are not interested with anything other than Raids?
3[02:03] Abend: raid officers only do raid stuff yes
4[02:10] Cynical: Im at work not trying to start a fight but i didnt think u guys wanted input to guild management just as u dont really want our input to raiding.
5[02:12] Cynical: I will be suggesting that because raid officers have their own channel they dont really have a need to see this one as it might have personal stuff about how people are behaving in the guild.
6[02:22] absolve: the  thing is
7[02:23] absolve: the  point we tried to make earlier has been miss read entirely
8[02:24] Cynical: Im not warring here absolve just im trying to put our officers to work and would like to do so unobstructed
9[02:24] absolve: and i dont think your trying to start a fight at all @Cynical
10[02:24] Cynical: Ive had some what i think really good ideas and the guild trusts u guys to push the raid team and trust me some of the things il suggest tomorrow will make my reasoning clear.
11[02:25] LÍ«OÍ£RÍ«DÍ£ Akaya: We specificly said its gonna split the guild.
12[02:25] LÍ«OÍ£RÍ«DÍ£ Akaya: If this happens
13[02:25] Cynical: Sneak peak, members of the month guild hall of fames different contests
14[02:25] Cynical: Pvp mondays
15[02:26] Cynical: So want a space to discuss it with people organising/rewarding loyalties
16[02:26] Cynical: I think its a minor concession seeing as the input to these decisions for me are people who arent as influential to raiding
17[02:27] Cynical: So its more neutral
18[02:28] Cynical: So no offence but i dont want the raid officers input to these decisions, we should have seperate camps sure but work together for guild progress
19[02:29] absolve: thats the probelm
20[02:29] absolve: "seperate camps"
21[02:29] absolve: your spliting the guild
22[02:30] absolve: you should have a small amount of officers that work to wards the guild as a whole
23[02:30] absolve: not 2 "separate camps"
24[02:30] Cynical: They shouldnt be exclusive to raiding
25[02:32] Cynical: I think my suggestion is reasonable for the plans im making
26[02:33] Cynical: You guys have a specific channel so u cam achieve your goals, i want something for mine.
27[02:34] absolve: wait a min
28[02:34] absolve: YOUR  goals?
29[02:35] absolve: does not sound like it for the good of the guild atalll
30[02:35] Cynical: Read my ideas.
31[02:36] absolve: pvp mondays , separate the guild into 2 parts
32[02:36] absolve: thats what ive seen so far
33[02:36] Cynical: We have 2 people who rejoined acov and barb
34[02:36] Cynical: Who both are exceptional at rbga
35[02:36] Cynical: So gonna put that to work.
36[02:37] Cynical: You guys have your independance and new ranks to do what u need to do to raid
37[02:37] absolve: you have an entirely wrong idea about me
38[02:37] Cynical: I want to develop the rest of the guild
39[02:37] absolve: clearly
40[02:37] Cynical: If u want to help i like your input
41[02:38] Cynical: But i want this to be seperate from raiding....
42[02:38] absolve: i have come from a guild that does EVERYTHING and i mean everthing
43[02:38] Cynical: I dont want 9 people diplomatic about member of month
44[02:39] Cynical: I want people to work with closely
45[02:39] Cynical: And i want my own space to do that, why is it so much to ask?
46[02:39] Cynical: People have complained about how inactive officers are i wanna fix that
47[02:40] Cynical: Been thinking about best way.
48[02:40] absolve: Spliting the guild id not the way to do it
49[02:40] absolve: is*
50[02:41] Abend: splitting the raid management from the guild officers isnt splitting the guild unless im missing something
51[02:41] absolve: Cyan is Trying to keep everyone happy at the end of the day
52[02:41] absolve: but it is splitting the guild a a whole
53[02:42] Cynical: Yeh u guys got another officer to help and your own space. I just want some space to plan activities outside of raid with the people not involved with raid choices
54[02:42] Cynical: I also want to increase recruitment
55[02:43] Cynical: Encourage participation and not have it interveined with
56[02:43] absolve: the point me and akaya tried to make earlier , is that there are too many officers to make X amount of decisions and it is detrimental to the guild
57[02:45] Cynical: Thats why u guys can be uninterupted with choices
58[02:45] Cynical: And i get rest of existing officers to do everything else in guild
59[02:46] absolve: all i see from that = spliting the guild  tbh
60[02:46] Abend: what do you mean by splitting the guild though
61[02:47] Abend: what was split was the officer rank
62[02:50] absolve: rather than having a guild
63[02:51] absolve: and i mean a guild as whole of people joined together to have fun etc
64[02:52] absolve: if some want to raid , if some want to pvp / some both / some neither or whatever
65[02:52] Cynical: All raiders are welcome to paricipate and no activites are planned on tuesdays and thurs so not excluding anyonr
66[02:52] Cynical: That was never the plan. My plan is to get officer activity in guild up.
67[02:53] Cynical: U guys have your own space to do raid stuff i want mine for social aspects. This convo is just proof of why i need iy
68[02:54] absolve: Ok , i will ahve nothing to do with this guild socialy
69[02:54] absolve: have*
70[02:55] absolve: i will mute this channel as of now
71[02:55] absolve: BTW @Voidzone  kinda the point i was trying to make but obviously did not
72[02:56] Cynical: We should speak tomorrow absolve. I think i can persuade u. My intrntion on this is honestly good.
73[02:56] Abend: you can have as much to do with the guild socially as you want
74[02:56] Abend: youre just not an officer for the social side
75[02:57] Abend: at least i think thats how its supposed to work
76[02:59] Cynical: Basically yeh. It will be us guys organsing events and rewards and any trivial problems. U guys asked what purpose officers have here im answering!!:smiley:
77[05:57] Cynical: I dont often ask for much but please could people refrain from commenting on what has been said here tonight until around 7am. I have had time during my shift to evaluate and construct an idea in my head and will create a post called 'the wall' when im at my computer in the morning. Alot of my points prev were unfinished and rushed. @absolve i still stand by what i dmed you but the post i will make here is more extensive on my stance.
78[08:13] Cynical: @Officers @Raid Officers
79[08:13] Cynical: The Wall. 
80This is Icyy's critical analysis / visions for the guild. I will begin by stating that although most of the statements I make here are my own interpretation I feel that for us to progress as a guild together we need to acknowledge our differences and shortfalls. 
81The Elephant in the room. 
82There has been a lot of talk about a certain 'split' forming in the guild. Well ladies and gent's sorry to be the one to bring it to the surface but it is most definitely here. The first stage to fixing our guilds problem is as cheesy as it sounds, identifying it. 
83There are two significant groups of officers, progression driven ones and survival driven ones. The former exists to strive to greatness in Antorus and deliver the raid group cutting edge, this is their goal and purpose. The second group is a preexisting group of players who have grown rather fond of each other over the expansion and who's foremost interest is the longevity of the guild. 
84Now this is not to say there is not an overlap where people dip into both sections but for simplicities sake I have kept it simple. 
85Is it all just a misunderstanding? 
86From mine and many other of the officer's perspective the raid leaders attained their ranks in the guild through their knowledge, experience and drive in the raiding community. However, the general feel of the remaining officers was that their reach was to be limited to just that, and now that they have absolute power and right to make as many changes as they like in the raid roster that would suffice.(redigeret)
87[08:13] Cynical: Why I think a formal divide is important. 
88As previously identified there is a split, and there have been comments made about perhaps leaving the guild if sufficient progress was not met. It is for that main reason that I am being so defensive, if we were to adopt a more refined officer structure with the focus being purely raiding then we would have serious issues should any or all of the raid officers choose to leave. This is why I suggest making the most of the situation. We have a dedicated majority of officers that have the guilds survival through to BFA as their sole purpose, these officers would not participate in any raid decisions unless asked, this would allow for uninterrupted decisions to tackle Argus as quickly as possible. 
89However, this would mean that I would expect the raid specific officers to take a back seat on the overall running of the guild due to the remaining officers now having roles. Obviously, input would be openly received but would not be as heavily weighted in my opinion as an officer whose role specifies it. 
90Furthermore, it is my understanding that the officers who are focusing on the raid only participate currently in the guild to kill Argus so I do not see why this split is outlandish given the freedom with your new channel and additional officer. 
91Trust. 
92I am sorry to say but my trust is earnt, I delegate my trust in a person based on my past experiences with them, which is why I am sorry to say that I cannot allow people I do not know or In Akaya's case like to change the guild away from what myself and Cyan worked so hard for it to become.
93[08:14] Cynical: Clearing the air, Akaya. 
94Akaya, I am sorry. I do not like or trust you and I am ashamed of my treatment towards you over the past two days, I would formally like to apologise for my behavior. However, I cannot get past the way you have treated Meddie, Penny and Verath. They are my friends, I have history with them and trust them. I will not stand by while somebody tries to strip away what they have spent time to earn. I feel you owe them an apology as it was not your place to judge them so flippantly. 
95I feel more about this short segment will need to be spoken about later.
96[08:14] Cynical: Icyy's Unwanted Officer Review. 
97Voidzone: Elected GM, peacekeeper and most consistent member. 
98Akaya: Unwavering focus on progress, made amazing changes in the raid roster which is enabling the guild to progress 
99Meddie: Extremely Loyal and fair, quite often the voice of reason if asked for her opinion. MIA for past couple of months but will hopefully make a strong return to leadership when my revamp is heard. 
100Penny: Soup monster + punching bag. Has shown his worth more times than anyone gives him credit for and if you listen carefully can sometimes make some sense amongst his mental ramblings. Also is being given additional responsibilities in revamp. 
101Absolve: Ethically sound. I often explicitly agree with his raid decisions and think he is often very consistent and also a genuinely good guy to converse with. 
102Abend: Parse machine, and out of the officers probably the person I unfortunately have the most respect for... fuck. 
103Verath: Remnants of that old band of rebel's nation, extremely active member, always friendly and outgoing, is a credit to our guild. 
104Cyrk: I don't know you bro, but Akaya thinks very highly of you and am eager to see what you can bring to the table, I'm sure I will be impressed. 
105Sliek: Very loyal member, possibly longest serving in the guild and when I can get some input from you its invaluable.
106[08:14] Cynical: So What Is this revamp? 
107There are a few key changes I wish to make on the guilds timetable and reiteration of officer structure, similar to Akayas model.
108GM 
109Raid leader /  Deputy 
110Raid Officers / Social Officers 
111I am going to request that Thursday at 18:30 realm we gather to clear the air once a week. 
112I am proposing Mondays to be RBG night, return of Acov and Barb will help matters. 
113I am proposing Weds/Sunday to continue being social HC 
114I am creating a new type of contest which will be a speed run of an old dungeon, probably EN in 5 man groups for starter, more info coming soon. 
115I am conducting another M+ contest 19/04 
116I am requesting a Guild history channel where all successes of our guildies will be recorded, for example m+ contest winners, guildy of month etc. 
117I am proposing a two new members of the month, one nominated by Akaya, backed by his raid officers for their raiding achievements, and one from Penny for activity, friendliness or whatever metric he decides. 
118A redesign of officer channel. We should have 3 separate channels Raid management, Guild management and Cyan's safe place for cross format concerns that should be brought up urgently or saved for the Thursday's meet. 
119Each social officer must run at least one event per 2 weeks, whether it’s a HC or whatever.
120[08:14] Cynical: Final notes 
121If you have made it this far I commend your and thank you for your patience. This is not a list of things I particularly want to negotiate over but I feel that in order to bring balance and peace we need to have our own territories where we can strive to new heights in the guild. We should not be afraid of our differences, at least I am not. I would appreciate if any comments made about a specific segment were posted to myself or Cyan for now while people have an opportunity to form their own opinions. 
122Many thanks Icyy out.
123[08:38] LÍ«OÍ£RÍ«DÍ£ Akaya: Im not gonna comment further than. I have not spoken ill of the 3. If it has come through that way. Something has been lost in translation.
124I specificly mentioned that it felt very meaningless to me with so many non opinionated voices in a leadership for a raid tier.
125There is stuff in your statement that makes me think that you never really heard what we pointed at when we back in the day spoke about social/raiding side. Or just neglect to hear us out.
126With that said. I will repeat myself. Its your guild and you can do whatever the flying fuck you want.
127My results with the team speak for themselves.
128On the last note. I knew you never trusted or liked me icyy. And i dont think i ever liked your way at going at things. But i respected it was your guild in the end.
129And ill stick to that. Ill have to see what i want to do from now on.