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1amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/16 10:35
2
3Climate change is not manmade, is not an issue, and runs in natural cycles. more co2 is good for earth, and fossil fuels are perhaps the most important thing humanity has discovered.
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7Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/16 15:40
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9Natural cycles tend to end with extinctions and/or die=offs if left unchecked, this we have a forestfire safety program despite knowing that forestfires absolutely vital for many species to reproduce effectively.
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11Natural or not, a change of this scale isn't something civilization will be able to weather without exerting control to significantly slow the rate of change.
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15skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/17 06:46
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17TK: We actually do allow natural forest fires (controlled burns) to occur. Forest fires are mainly only largely dangerous when brush accumulates to an unusual degree, or when the weather is unusually hot or dry.
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21Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/17 07:18
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23Yeah that's what I was saying; just because something is within the range of normal, doesn't mean we let it happen uncontrolled. In the case of climate change the only people with any incentive to argue against controlling it are just trying to pinch pennies or otherwise avoid the responsibility of controlling it.
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27amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/17 10:41
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29@TK Educate yourself. Watch these videos. We cant stop it, so why should we worry? The medieval warm period didnt kill everyone
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31https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJWq1FeGpCw
32https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSrjAXK5pGw
33https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Teja5YNCo
34https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDWEjSDYfxc
35https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdbSxyXftc
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39Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/17 18:07
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41You don't have any text sources? I don't want youtube thinking polluting my suggested links more than the Bee Movie already has.
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45Botty McBotface			#fc5Ccs22 2017/05/17 21:36
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47I, too, bring up controversial scientific beliefs on the forums of Japanese browser game sites.
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51amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/18 07:33
52
53@TK
54incognito. if u aint willing to see both sides of the issue, you aint informed.
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58skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/18 09:46
59
60To be fair, if you take the side of the issue with significantly less support from the majority of scientists in the field in question, it's a good chance you're probably not informed either.
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64amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/18 12:10
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66@skyk
67the scientists are all paid off to preach the alarmist fear mongering agenda that were gonna cook to death and sink into the ocean. ive researched both sides, believe me.
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71skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/18 12:15
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73Amazingdude: I am a scientist. I have spent several years working and spending time with environmental researchers. If you met these people, you would realize how ridiculous it is to claim that they have been paid off. These are the sorts of people that duck tape their socks because they can't afford to buy new ones.
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75On the other hand, the lobbies that benefit from environmental deregulation, which are the ones promoting anti=climate change, have huge amounts of money at stake.
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79Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/18 21:33
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81Are we seriously having the FUCKING global warming argument again???
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85Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 04:40
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87Occam's Razor, ameighzingdude. You're suggesting that it's more likely that 97% of every goddamn climate expert on Earth has been bribed by vast sums of money. Who? Who could possibly have that much money and be willing to throw it around for basically no reason?
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91Molefight				#jZJeWsWO 2017/05/19 05:29
92
93@Torture King
94George Soros and the Democrat party, but it's mostly the schools that are brainwashing students.
95
96Also, wouldn't climate change just balance itself out? If it gets too hot it rains, which cools the earth. If co2 levels rise, plants will grow at a faster rate, which will lower the co2 levels.
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100skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 06:22
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102Unfortunately, neither of those elements would cancel out climate change. In fact, both cause further disruption, through extreme weather and dispersal of invasive plant species.
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106Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/19 06:58
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109Human development and activity, especially in developed and developing countries, is unsustainable anyway. Surely we can agree on that.
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111@Molefight
112That's a very simplistic view of things. The earth is far more complex than a single equilibrium. Biological and physical processes are far more diverse than that. 
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116amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 07:46
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118https://pastebin.com/uT23FX2k
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120@skyk
121What happens is the alarmist industry pays the organization, which tells the scientists to exaggerate their data to make it look like were cooking to death, and the organization pockets the rest
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123@TK
124Its explained in the second video in the list. here it is again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSrjAXK5pGw. Not every single one is paid off. Only the biggest ones, and they trick people into believing its real using falsified data. The 97% fact only states that climate is changing. It doesnt say anything about the degree of climate change or the effects. Climate is changing, like it always has, and always will, and this brief warm period isnt gonna kill us all. The roman warm period was hotter than today, and the enviornment wasnt all fucked up then, so why would it now? Its climate alarmist exaggering what always happens, and taking advantage of it to gain power.
125 
126@molefight
127You are absolutely right, and that is one of the primary driving factors in climate fluctuation.
128 
129@T&W
130Its unsustainable because the enviornmeltaists are not letting us use the full potential of the earth. They are preventing us from using vast amounts of land, just because theres some uninportant thing there. Enviornmentalism is dangerous, and is ultimately going to lead to the extinction of the human species. We cannot advance as a species if we do not use the full potential of the planet we are given. We can support everyone with the earth, if we could use the full earth to our advantage.
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134Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 09:19
135
136>Calls people alarmist
137>"Environmentalism is dangerous and will lead to our extinction"
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139Sure, we should just fill our waterways with DDT and industrial run=off the way god intended.
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143skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 09:52
144
145What exactly is the "alarmist industry", and how would they have more funding and more to gain than the oil and coal industries?
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147Also, how can environmentalism lead to extinction? By definition, it will only prevent further expansion.
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151Molefight				#jZJeWsWO 2017/05/19 10:12
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153Cats have always been aggressive towards me. I never have figured out why.
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155Pesticides, pollution and genetically modified crops are all threats to our environment. I just don't find the idea that co2 is causing the earth to heat very convincing.
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157So let's just agree to disagree on climate change.
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161skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 10:35
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163This isn't really a situation where it's appropriate to "agree to disagree". Only one side can be correct, and if climate change actually is occurring, the consequences of not acting now are going to be very significant in the future.
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167amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 10:43
168
169https://pastebin.com/UfSyQ6Ak
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171Jesus crist the char limit is too short
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173@TK
174Yeah, maybe I did bash enviornmentalism too hard. I'm talking more about the preservationists who shut down a whole fucking city just so a few animals can roam free, or who drain an entire lake in a state severely in drought just to save 10 fishes. The point is, reducing the amount of land we can use and making corporations tiptoe around a minefield of pointless regulations will only hurt humanity in the long run.
175 
176@skyk
177The alarmist industry are the enviornmentalists. They are taking advantage of the natural warming period we are in, and are exploiting it for publicity and support. The alarmist industry began in China to make us afraid of warming earth 1 degree every hundred years, and be less competetitive. The enviornmentlists ate it up, and the myth has persisted to this day, however every prediction they have made has turned out false, and their credibility wanes by the day.
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179Preventing necessary expansion with a growing population is only a bad thing. Eventually, we will outgrow what the enviornmentalists allow us to use, and then we will run out of food, resulting in conflict, famine, disease, and possibly war. All to save a few animals that would have gone extinct anyway without humans.
180 
181except global warming is not happening as you alarmists believe. Humans have no impact. We are just in another warm period, like before. Earth didnt fall into chaos then, so why would it now? Climate change is natural, unstoppable, and a constant force of nature. Our current warm period has levelled off in 1998, and will stay that way for decades to come. The consequences will be small, as this warming is just a typical point in history.
182 
183@molefight
184I disagree, except on pollution. Personally, I only believe pollution only matters in areas that humans use or live in. Dumping shitloads of waste in the ocean or siberian tundra isnt an issue, since its not affecting anybody. Your asolutely right on the co2 thing. More CO2 is good, as it promotes plant growth, which will mean more food, more animals, more oxygen, etc. co2 does not contribute a significant amount to the greenhouse effect, as that is 95% water vapor. It will take 1000ppm of co2 just to warm up half a degree, which nobody except scientists will notice. CO2 is good for the earth, and fossil fuels are the ultimate energy source, as its very cheap and plentiful, as well as being good for the earth. Back in precambrian time, co2 was over 10,000ppm.
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188Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 11:00
189
190I'm afraid you're not in very rational company, Molefight.
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192@Ameighzingdude
193The oceans aren't important? Seriously? The thing that produces 95% of the world's oxygen supply and the bottom of the food chain isn't important? Sure the tundra is by and large a wasteland with maybe 15 distinct species per continent most of which are lichens or mosquitoes, but the ocean might as well be the most important part of the natural world.
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197amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 11:13
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199I must ask, did anyone watch the 5 videos i listed earlier?
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201@TK
202Of course oceans are important. But theres so much ocean that any pollution is so dilute its barely even traceable. Its like a drop of water in a gas can.
203If anything, Molefight is the most rational of us here.
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207skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 11:25
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209I watched the videos. The "science" in them is horrible. A line graph correlating fossil fuel use with sanitation proves that fossil fuels are eco-friendly? I could show you a graph that correlates ice cream consumption with piracy, but it wouldn't prove causation.
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213Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 11:37
214
215The Great Garbage Patch begs to differ.
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219amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 12:14
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221@skyk
222There actually is correlation. More fossil fuels mean more energy production, which makes sanitation possible.
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224@TK
225The "great garbage patch" is only a few hundred feet across. It is vastly exaggerated and abused by alarmsits to promote the false narritave that we are making a trash island.
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229skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/05/19 12:22
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231If you can't understand the difference between correlation and causation, I'm just going to stop discussing this.
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235amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 12:30
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237@skyk
238Causation means A causes B. Correlation means A and B have a relationship, but neither is caused by the other. Using fossil fuels do not cause increased sanitation. There is, however, an inderect relationship between fossil fuel use and sanitation. Indirect.
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242Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 12:36
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244It weighs 7,000,000 tons. Of plastic. The material we use specifically because it's sturdy and lightweight. And it's concentrated in a very specific area, disproving your assertion that whatever we put in the ocean is too diluted to matter. And it's poisoning everything around it because fish are stupid and think the smaller pieces are krill.
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246Look, how about we go with Molefight's idea to stop before this gets really bad and agree that the best compromise would be to move all our heavy industry to Mars. Earth stops getting polluted, oil/coal dependent industries can fcuk up the air and soil all they want without endangering any of Mars' nonexistent wildlife, and if global warming turns out to be a thing and melts the ice caps then we get some much-needed terraforming out of it instead of living underwater in the year 3000.
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250Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/19 12:37
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252@amazingdude
253"I know there is correlation. The problem is that correlation does not equal causation. Not only that, but better sanitation doesn't even mean the same thing as a better environment, it just means more transportation of garbage.
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255"Indirect relationship" means that there's NOT a correlation.
256There's an "indirect relationship" between me and a rock that weighs the same as me. There's an "indirect relationship" between an apple and a candle regarding the fact that neither tastes like a dirty sock. There's an "indirect relationship" between the number of films Nicholas Cage starred in this year and the number of suicides in Mexico this year.
257
258Honestly, do you even read your comments before you post them?
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260At this point, I'm pretty sure you're not having this discussion "in good faith", so I'm just going to stop involving myself."
261~skyk
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265amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/19 15:02
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267@Vidkunssonn
268There is no relationship between your weight and the weight of a rock. There is no relationship between cage movies and mexican suicides. Your just being stupid. Both examples compare 2 completely unrelated things. Explain how nic cage movies cause mexicans to kill themselves.
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270@TK
271Its only one area, not the whole ocean. 99% of the ocean is perfectly habitable. Honestly, who gives a shit about a few fish? It not gonna kill us. Moving industry to mars would not work. Itll be to expensive to ship to earth. If you think were gonna be underwater in 3000 due to human activity, you are insane.
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275Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/19 23:38
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277We eat the fish that eat the fish that eat the fish that eat the plastic. There's no such thing as a closed system and you'd do well to abandon such a bronze age idea.
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281Eta Leonid				#zTSrxt1B 2017/05/20 00:10
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283@amazingdude He was making an example. Like there is an indirect relationship to me liking burning people and how often the Chechen Oblast rebels. Also, you need to think before you post.
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287Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/20 04:08
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289@amazingdude
290The relationship between me and the rock is that we both weigh ~170lbs. The relationship between the apple and the candle is that neither taste like the dirty sock. The relationship between Nick Cages' film rates and the suicides in Mexico is that while there are more movies he's in in a year, there is also more suicides in Mexico.
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292AS I SAID BEFORE, all of these relationships are indirect, implying there is NOT a correlation. There's a relationship because there's a similarity, and that relationship is indirect because the similarities are not caused by the same force. You were trying to put "indirect relationship" and "correlation" together and make it sound like they mean the same thing, and I was plaining to you what the term you used ACTUALLY means.
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294You're going off the handle with this. Calling me stupid because you couldn't understand my explanation of the thing you used wrong is a sign you shouldn't be participating in this discussion. Do as @skyk says and stop where you're at now before things start to get worse for ALL of us.
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298Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/20 06:00
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300@Greywolf
301How is Amazingdude ever going to understand earth's natural processes when he can't even understand what you're saying?
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305amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/20 07:37
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307https://pastebin.com/xEdD8tp8 
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309@TK
310The amount of plastic fish eat is slim to none compared to the mass of the fish.
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312@eta
313His examples were not comparable to the relationship between fossil fuel use and sanitation. I do think before I post.
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315@vidkunssonn
316You clearly do not understand. You are beyond repair. Burning fossil fuels produces energy, and you can use that energy to improve sanitation. Doing A produces B, which is used to do C. Therefore, A and C are related. Its called syllogism. By your logic, if X causes Y and Y causes Z, X and Z are completely unrelated, because X does not directly cause Z.
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318@T&W
319Vid does not understand me. Yes, I do understand natural processes. Warm and cold cycles, carbon cycle, water cycle, etc.
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323Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/20 09:12
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325Your arguments would make more sense if you were a nuclear power shill instead of a combustion power shill, just FYI. The yields are incomparable for how little actually goes into it.
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329Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/20 10:34
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331https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=e5d0h3d5c0
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333"By your logic, if X causes Y and Y causes Z, X and Z are completely unrelated, because X does not directly cause Z."
334T-That... that's not what I said at ALL...
335
336Okay.. I'm going to explain "correlation", "causation", "coincidence", and "syllogism".
337
338>Correlation:
339-A and B both have property X.
340-They have property X because of C.
341-This is what you seem to understand as an "indirect relationship". I do not know this to be indirect, because A and B are both directly related because of C and property X.
342
343>Causation:
344-A affects B, and B now has property X.
345-B, because of its new property X, affects C, and C now has property Y.
346-A does affect C in this situation, because without affecting B, C would not be affected at all.
347
348>Coincidence:
349-A and B both have property X.
350-A has property X because of C.
351-B has property X because of D.
352-THIS is what I understand to be an "indirect relationship".
353
354>Syllogism:
355-All A's are B's.
356-All B's have property X.
357-Therefor, all A's have property X.
358
359Basically I'm saying that you're saying burning fossil fuels and improved sanitation have a coincidence about them; no, there is a causation.
360The burning of fossil fuels, or A, creates more energy, B, and B allows for improved sanitation, C. A (burning FF) gives B (energy) property X (there's now more of it). B, because it has property X, affects C (sanitation), giving C property Y (it's improved).
361That IS causation.
362
363Also, Pastebin sucks. You should try http://meowbin.com
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367amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/20 10:37
368
369@TK
370Why is being a "fossil fuel shill" worse than being a nuclear shill. Im not a fossil fuel shill, I'm a climate realist.
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374Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/20 14:04
375
376Climate Change or not, burning hydrocarbons in excess makes it impossible to live in urban areas without having to wear a gasmask everywhere in the name of moderately productive output. That's the best-case scenario, a coal plant will always put out toxic gas, but a nuclear plant just makes steam and a lump of waste that can be safely buried under a mountain. Coal/oil/gas are outdated and obsolete, they have been for decades.
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380amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/21 03:56
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382@Vidkunssonn
383You are right I guess. You just proved fossil fuels are good.
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385@TK
386Increase efficiency of cars. More efficient cars is a good thing, as it uses less gas, and pollutes less, which means the gas can be used to power more cars and other stuff. Its a win-win. The problem with nuclear is that its too high risk. Look at fukushima and chernobyl. If we can contain nuclear, and make it safe and reliable, then I'll be all for it, but until then, fossil fuels are our best energy.
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390Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/21 05:33
391
392The thing is fossil fuels ARE good up to the extent when a developing country has begun rapid industrialisation. Look at Britain, Japan, Brazil, when they were industrialising. It wouldn't have happened without fossil fuels. Of course, you get quickly rampant and unsustainable levels of pollution as a country moves into stage 3 of the Demographic Transition Model. This is why China is now the number one investor of alternative energy. This is why postwar Britain introduced restrictions on coal burning. It won't get better unless you change it. We will have rapidly industrialisation in south Asia, in Africa in the upcoming decades. We need more efficient, cleaner and more renewable fuels to stop this. Of course, improving the efficiency of machines is also a measure to take but there will always be a limit. 
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396Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/21 06:28
397
398Fukushima was struck by both a 9.0 earthquake and a tsunami and despite that no deaths or radiation sicknesses have been reported since it started.
399Chernobyl was intentionally built with numerous cut-corners because the USSR generally valued low costs over human lives. The most surprising thing about it's failure was that the news got past the Iron Curtain, and the US govt. hyped it to hell and back for morale reasons.
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403amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/21 17:09
404
405@T&W
406So basically we shouldnt use fossil fuels because were already industrialized, even though we sitll need energy, and renewables and nuclear have proven themselves unreliable?
407
408@TK
409While 99% of nuclear plants may be fine, the 1 event every century will make the nearest 100 miles uninhabitable for millenia. Not a risk I'd be willing to take at the moment, when we have tons of safe, plentiful, efficient energy right under our feet.
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413Hoopig					#JA6SzCa4 2017/05/21 22:05
414
415@amazingdude
416Fossil Fuels aren't a clean source of energy, that's why there is this conversation.
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420Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/22 03:44
421
422Well, I have done research in school, and there are plenty of other more natural ways to create energy such as wind turbines or geothermal energy. 
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426Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/22 06:57
427
428http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/five-years-after-meltdown-it-safe-live-near-fukushima
429It's like none of your opinions are grounded in reality.
430
431They've declared 70% of the affected area to be safe.
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435Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/05/22 13:26
436
437@amazingdude
438When did he say that renewable/nuclear energy is unreliable? He just said how desperately we need them right now as developed nations.
439Also, it looks like Mr. One-percent-of-the-ocean-being-trash-is-perfectly-fine suddenly became Mr. One-percent-of-nuclear-plants-will-eradicate-all-life-on-Earth.
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443amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/22 14:40
444
445is that u Esigma?
446https://pastebin.com/NjZQDRit
447
448@Hooping
449Yes they are. They release CO2 which acts like a natural fertillizer for plants. More CO2 is good for the earth. complex life first emerged back when CO2 was over 10,000ppm. Before CO2 emissions began, it was at 280ppm. Now it's at 400ppm. We are saving the earth. At 150ppm, plants start to die. The notion that CO2 causes global warming is false, as 95% of the greenhouse effect is water. In global warming charts, you will see that the temperature rises first, 800 years before co2 levels. Many scientists predict that we are approaching a coo period. No warming has occured in the last 20 years, yet co2 levels continue to rise. All the climate change in the history of the earth has been 100% natural, not manmade.
450 
451Over the past 150 million years, CO2 has been on a steady decline, and without us, co2 would reach dangerously low levels 2 million years from more. So basically, it's a win-win: Cheap, reliable, green energy.
452 
453"We are the salvation of life, because we reintroduced CO2 to the atmosphere that was taken out by oceanic life that sucked it up. Without CO2, plants die. And without plants, we die." --Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greenpeace
454 
455@Toucans
456Wind is unreliable, as its inconsistant and you cant store it. Geothermal only works in certain areas.
457 
458@TK
459Chernobyl is still unsafe.
460 
461@Sigma
462He never said they are unrelible, I did. He proposed an unreliable idea, and I told  him it was unreliale. Besides, 1% of the ocean being fucked up is no big deal, but 1% of plants making the nearest 100 miles a wasteland is.
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466Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/23 04:34
467
468Chernobyl was poorly made even by the standards of a bankrupt developing power, and then when something happened a response was delayed until it was too late to do anything. Properly made plants and response times appropriate for disaster make the the Fukushima outcome.
469And really, the first use of the technology was a super-weapon based on not controlling the reaction, one would think the USSR would have the Realpolitik to not risk losing control of an asset like that.
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473ZororarkMan				#W0evNddu 2017/05/23 05:04
474
475Why are we having a debate about energy? It's pointless. (Also, the plants are placed in places that people consider 'in the middle of nowhere'.)
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479amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/23 07:59
480
481@TK
482shit happens either way. Had people not sacrificed their lives for chernobyl, half of Europe would be uninhabitable for half a million years. Even today, the plant still needs to be contained. Even Fukushima was bad. How many nuclear plants are working correctly? Id like to see statistics.
483
484@Zororarkman
485Because fossil fuels are not the devil, like people want you to think.
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489Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/23 11:21
490
491https://www.nei.org/Knowledge-Center/Nuclear-Statistics/World-Statistics
492
493Of course they're not the devil; they're just inefficient at everything that doesn't involve choking everything around them with smog and soot, and somewhat okay at generating energy using materials that we're rapidly running out of.
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497Eta Leonid				#zTSrxt1B 2017/05/24 03:05
498
499I want to see amazingdude tossed into the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone.
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503amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/24 06:22
504
505@eta
506I'd also like to see you climate alarmists tossed into a barrel of burning oil
507
508@TK
509Fossil fuels are efficient, clean, and good for earth. We are releasing the trapped CO2 back into the air to be used by plants. More plants is good for earth. A world without CO2 is a world without life. CO2 is next to sunlight at the bottom of the food chain. All of this and we get shitloads of energy from it. Pollution can be managed by increasing efficiency of cars and power plants. How is using fossil fuels bad? Also, I'm not anti-nuclear, I'm just skeptical. Nuclear is our second best option.
510
511==================================================
512
513hi						#BVKVYk0d 2017/05/24 06:51
514
515killa-byte
516
517==================================================
518
519Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/05/24 09:19
520
521But there is such a thing as *too* much CO2. And while the Earth experienced a time when it's CO2 levels were at 10,000 ppm before our time, we have evolved to live in much lower levels and I don't think prolonged exposure of increased levels would be good for our health (I don't know for sure, but suffocation isn't the only danger with this).
522
523==================================================
524
525amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/24 10:26
526
527@Sigma
528LOL, we're gonna suffocate to death!! At 1% CO2. If anything, we'd go through a green revolution as the earth is transformed and ecosystems become stronger and we'll experience something like a second cambrian explosion. More CO2 = more plants. More plants = more life. More life = better earth.
529Or take out all the CO2 and kill the plants, watch as ecosystems collapse, etc.
530
531==================================================
532
533Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/24 11:15
534
535Excess CO2 doesn't make plants grow faster/better. If there was 1000% more CO2 on earth than all the plants on earth required, they'd all grow and reproduce at exactly the same rate as if there were 10% more CO2 than required.
536
537==================================================
538
539Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/24 13:43
540
541CO2 is also released as plants die and rot, so don't act as if fossil fuels are the only thing keeping the balance.
542
543==================================================
544
545Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/24 15:14
546
547Plants also consume O2 to turn sugar into H2O and CO2 the same way humans do. Even while they're alive, they release CO2 into the atmosphere.
548
549Even with the excess of those other factors, plants can only convert 6CO2 + 6H20 <--> 6O2 + C6H12O6 back and forth so much at once.
550
551==================================================
552
553Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/25 01:38
554
555There are limiting factors to plant growth. Even if there was a massive increase in CO2, limiting factors such as water, light, temperature and nutrients restrain the rate of photosynthesis to a normal level. 
556
557==================================================
558
559amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/25 04:50
560
561@Vidkunssonn
562Greenhouses amplify CO2 concentration to get plants to grow. The earth has already gotten noticably greener because of increased co2 levels. This is good for the earth, more plants ia always better for the ecosystem. The overall impact of humans on the earth has been overwhelmingly positive. We have used fossil fuels to transform our world and keep us safer from the climate, and fossil fuels are the reason you are alive and typing on a computer.
563
564@TK
565Fossil fuels are not the only reason, but they are the largest. Dead plants and other factors DO release CO2, but not as much as fossil fuels. In a way, we are helping the enviornment, as CO2 levels are dropping around the world before humans came along, and would have dipped below 150ppm, which would suffocate plants. We are the saviors of the planet, by releasing co2 that has been trapped in the crust.
566
567@T&W
568With this natural warm period, higher temperatures means more evaporation off the ocean, which means more clouds. More clouds means more rain, which means more water for plants. Another limiting facter has gone up. While nutrients might be rare in one area, they might not be in another. More CO2 will allow for more plants to grow in some areas. More is more.
569
570==================================================
571
572Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/25 05:20
573
574... So you acknowledge that plants give off CO2 as they die and that with low levels of CO2 plants die, but you don't acknowledge that this is an obvious cycle we don't need to help along?
575
576Also your entire argument thus far has been that humans cannot have more than a negligible impact on the climate, why are you now saying that our actions are the only thing keeping the climate from killing us?
577
578==================================================
579
580Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/05/25 05:40
581
582@amazingdude
583...you know that no matter how high the temperatures rise or how much it rains, the limiting factor of sunlight will stay not change. The rate of the flow of the transpiration stream is controlled by limiting factors as well. They will not increase. Furthermore, the amount of rain that falls will vary significantly due to global weather patterns. The most rain will fall on places where water is already a plentiful resource.
584
585Anyways, you keep talking about carbon dioxide as a gas. What do you have to say about methane, nitrous oxides and sulphur dioxide as gases? 
586
587==================================================
588
589Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/25 06:18
590
591@amazingdude
592No... A greenhouse's purpose is to keep the plants inside nice and warm. It has no other effects on the plants other than it keeps them dry on rainy days. All a greenhouse is is a transparent structure that absorbs heat. That's why the Greenhouse Effect has it's name: it's just keeping heat given off by sunlight on the earth. It does not affect the concentration of any gas in the air.
593
594Fossil fuels are not the reason I am alive today. The only overall impact that they have on me is that they power the devices that make me less bored.
595
596==================================================
597
598amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/26 06:50
599
600https://pastebin.com/TKDGXf5g
601
602@Vidkunssonn
603 
604So if a greenhouse only keeps plants warm, why do they put more co2 into the greenhouses then? Oh right, so the plants grow better. If not for fossil fuels, you probably would have died in the hospital or some disease. Fossil fuels allow us to be safe from the enviornment.
605 
606@TK
607Why shouldnt we help the cycle when helping would be good for the earth? Yes, we do impact the earth, not the climate.
608 
609@T&W
610That doesnt mean that more co2 wont be good for earth. Besides the other gasses have such a small impact on the climate its near undetectable.
611
612==================================================
613
614Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/26 08:01
615
616http://i.imgur.com/dliQRoP.png
617
618[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] TRANSCRIBE [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
619
620NOTE 1 
621
622==================================================
623
624Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/26 08:07
625
626@amazingdude
627No.
628No.
629They don't do that.
630
631My grandmother has a greenhouse, and the plants in it are some of the greenest house plants I've ever seen, and all she does to them is water them. There's no gaseous concentration difference between inside the greenhouse and outside the greenhouse. They're green because they're kept in a warm environment with plenty of light and given plenty of water, not because of excess CO2.
632
633@Torture King
634I'm sorry, I placed a couple of arrays in the wrong places. It should work properly, now.
635
636==================================================
637
638amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/26 13:47
639
640lets go
641https://pastebin.com/T9bdpqNR
642
643@Vidkunssonn
644You dont HAVE to pump co2 into a greenhouse, but it definitely helps. You dont need fertillizer to grow grass, but it definitely helps.
645 
646If somebody removed the comments manually, they would remove ones with filter bypasses like shit.
647 
648@TK
649CO2 is not a toxic gas. It is the base of all life on earth. Actually, Earth was already breaking, and we came in and fixed it. I'm not an "oil ostrich", I am not funded by anybody. I dont suck big oil's dick. I legitimately believe climate change is natural and good. Your false data would never fool me.
650 
651You have to understand that individual scientists arent bribed. They are told that climate change is manmade, and will cherry pick data that fits their hypothesis, and since they believe in the hoax, they will believe their data. Its not that people are paid off, its that they genuinely believe the crap the media throws them. These people, except the real top heads like CEOs, legitimately believe humans cause climate change, only the top dogs are in on the hoax. They create the idea that were all gonna die if we dont follow their wishes. They (climate change alarmists) use fear mongering and false doomsday predictions to scare the public into believing it. Look at all the predictions about ice and temperature that came out false.
652 
653Real data shows there has been no warming since 1998. They go back and change the weather records to create a false sense of warming, and changed how they measure temperatures to produce warmer readings. If you take temperature in cities, its gonna be hotter than in nature because cities absorb all the heat. Its not rocket science. The top dogs use these techniques and ship it to everyone and say the earth is warming exponentially, but in reality, warming has leveled off in the last 20 years. Because of a grand solar minimum, we are expected to enter an ice age by 2050. Solar activity deflects cosmic rays, and cosmic rays have been known to affect cloud cover. More cosmic rays = more clouds. You really think that great ball of fire in the sky has less impact on global climate than burning a few gallons of dead plant material?
654 
655Warming started at the end of the little ice age, hundreds of years before fossil fuel emissions started, and if you look back in time over billions of years, you will see that co2 levels and temperature have no real correlation, and co2 has been on the decline for 150 million years and wouldve reached dangerous levels without human intervention. We got within 30ppm of the minimum co2 for plant survival during the last glacial maximum. The medieval warm period was as warm as today. Roman warm period was hotter than today. Look back at co2 levels and temperature over the past 100000 years or so, and you will find that co2 levels rise 800 years after tempetature. How can the "cause" happen after the effect? Sea levels rose hundreds of feet in the last 15,000 years, and much faster than today, and we didnt all die. Species werent all dying, earth wasnt frying up, so why should it now, under lesser warming conditions? It makes no sense. Runaway greenhouse is nonsense, as it should have happened back in the cambrian period with co2 over 10,000ppm.
656
657"Global warming" is really just part of a natural climate cycle. In the 70s, it was global cooling, but then the earth started warming, so it became global warming. After warming stopped in 1998, its now climate change. Now the climate isnt changing, its now extreme weather. These people are full of shit. Do not trust them. Trust god emperor trump to set us free from the chains of enviornmentalists and let us use the full potential of out planet to our advantge and begin a second industrial revolution. God bless trump. The enviornmentalists took advantage of this natural warm period and spread fear to gain funding. They run off of this hoax. To believe this natural warming is caused by human activity and is killing the earth is delusionalism and insanity. Spread the truth.
658
659==================================================
660
661Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/26 15:10
662
663Nitrogen does not have the same effect on plants as CO2 does. Plants need CO2 to grow. Nitrogen only helps plants grow, but like CO2, there's only so much a plant can use at once, so any excess goes unused. 
664
665==================================================
666
667Avo						#LSR5NOs7 2017/05/26 17:41
668
669Amazing dude Wow thank u for explaining it! i was believing the hoax for a while until you introduced me to the real view
670
671==================================================
672
673Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/27 02:34
674
675https://pastebin.com/kn4SX5Au
676
677Fallacy after fallacy, do you even listen to yourself?
678 
6791) If breathing it harms you, it is in fact toxic.
680 
6812) Just because you're partially made of something, doesn't make it good by itself in all situations.
682Chemistry isn't nearly as forgiving as that.
683 
6843) I never said you were funded, ostriches are associated with a fictional behavior of reacting to danger by burying their heads in sand. You are at least partially aware of how chemistry and physics work, but you're still clinging to ludicrous closed-system ideas like "it's only a little ocean, that won't affect anything" because you don't want to consider being wrong about something.
685 
6864) Just because something is natural, doesn't make it good for you. Arsenic is natural, DO NOT EAT ARSENIC.
687 
6885) Your faith in humanity is astounding, falsifying data is a serious charge you know. Do you have any proof? I ask because rational people don't cave to blatant witchhunts.
689 
6906) Which CEOs exactly would benefit from an increase in production costs? I'm all for anticorporatism, but surely you can see that they'd not want everyone to demand that they lose money?
691 
6927) You keep saying things like "real data" and "hoax" but then you don't give us any good sources, how are we to know which data is good? Do you expect us to cherrypick the 3% of climate studies agreeing with what you're saying with no sense of irony?
693 
6948) Some of the most damning GCC evidence is from soil samples taken in the arctic- far away from any major city that would absorb heat.
695 
6969) Cosmic rays are also harmlessly reflected by the magnetosphere, if at any point that stopped being the case, all electronics the world over would be fried in the best case scenario, in the worst case, the sky would flash magenta before everything dies. They're somewhat rare and not responsible for the weather.
697 
69810) We don't know how many species went extinct during those periods because prescientific-method societies were rather bad at science.  Pliny the Elder published a book saying that there was no more than 273 types of fish in the ocean and nobody called him out on it.
699 
70011) Trump is a gameshow host that whines on Twitter when Broadway makes fun of him, not a god.
701
702==================================================
703
704amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/27 04:25
705
706https://pastebin.com/S4hMtbJS
707
708@Vidkunssonn
709CO2 has the same effect as nitrogen on plants
710 
711@Avo
712Its great that I convinced you otherwise of the liberal hoax. Thank you for taking me seriously.
713 
714@TK
715So much wrong with your response. Nothing was a fallacy.
716 
7171. Breating too much of anything is toxic. If you breathe too much oxygen, you die. Is oxygen toxic then? Same with water.
718 
7192. I never said everything we are made of is good for us.
720 
7213. So your saying that i am scared of manmade climate change, so i pretend its false? wtf is this shit? I'm dead serious about my responses, I really believe them.
722 
7234. Natural doesnt mean its good for you, you are right on that, but co2 is a net good for all life.
724 
7255. Look at climategate, theres emails discussing faking data. Even the government is in on it.
726 
7276. Enviornmental groups. They fool everyone into thinking humans are the devil and the world is doomed, and we all get scared and act in their favor. Why are you anticorporate? Corporations are good. You a communist then? Communists killed 10x more than nazis did.
728 
7297. That 97% thing is misleading. 97% believe the climate is changing, but they disagree on whether its humans, its natural, or if its bad. 97% of people believe vaccine side effects are real, but it doesnt mean that all vaccines cause autism.
730 
7318. Ice core samples are reliable, except they show nothing aout the cause. Yes, they show warming and co2 levels. No, the co2 does not cause more temperature. Look at the graph. co2 comes after temperature changes.
732 
7339. Some cosmic rays pass though. Weaker sun = more cosmic rays reach earth. more rays reach earth = more get thru.
734 
73510. That exactly proves my point. We cannot prove more species are going extinct now if we dont know past extinction rates during past warm periods.
736 
73711. Trump is a good leader, no doubt. Making america great again.
738
739==================================================
740
741Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/27 06:45
742
743https://pastebin.com/cy6nt2Fk
744
745No it doesn't. Plants do not use nitrogen to turn water into sugar and oxygen.
746 
747@amazingdude
7481) He never specified that a certain amount of the thing hurts you it's toxic, he said that if you breathe it AT ALL and it hurts you, it's toxic.
749 
7502) You DID say that CO2 is the basis of all life on earth, which is the CRINGIEST thing I've ever heard about CO2. It is not the basis for OUR lives, because we don't use it. We exhale it to get rid of it. We cannot live off of CO2, which is the exact opposite of what "the basis of life" means.
751 
7523) That is EXACTLY how you appear, though. Not to one thing he has said have you made a rebuttal or have you debunked/explained it to help your side of the argument; you just plant another unsupported "fact" on your side of the field.
753 
7544) OVERALL, yes, maybe, it is good for us, but it still harms people all the time. I.E. China.
755 
7565)"Even the government is in on it" What are you, a hippy degenerate 70's kid? EVIDENCE, PLEASE, FRONT AND CENTER! Also, things labeled with the suffix "-gate" is labeled that because it is FAKE NEWS. I.E. Pizzagate.
757 
7586) EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE!
759 
7607) Refer to #6, And NO vaccine causes autism. Autism is entirely genetic. The only cause of autism is stupid parents who do stupid things while they're pregnant with the children and they come out autists.
761 
7628) Heat diffuses a lot faster than CO2 diffuses. Large CO2 emissions are dangerous because there's large masses of CO2 that isn't diffusing fast enough lying where people have to breathe. It's toxic because the CO2 levels in the breathed air are rising, lowering the O2 levels (because CO2 weighs more than O2, the CO2 moves below the O2, like water and oil) and we're stuck at the bottom with it. The arctic doesn't have that same problem because there's no large CO2 emissions in the arctic. The majority of the CO2 in the arctic soil comes from far away places, LONG after the heat gets there because, again, it diffuses MUCH slower than heat.
763 
7649) I don't even WANT to know what you're talking about here.
765 
76610) What point? How does this relate to anything you're saying?
767 
76811) Trump isn't that great of a leader. He's just better at leading than Hillary, which is really the only reason I'm happy he's in the White House.
769
770==================================================
771
772Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/05/27 08:07
773
774In addition to what Vidkunssonn said, I'm anti-corporatist because I'm pro-freemarket. Corporations are okay in my book as long as they still play by the same rules as any small business and don't kill competition or get special treatment from the government when they fail to adapt to the public's changing demands. Adam Smith (1723-1790) had a lot of negative things to say about corporatism, so I recommend any of his works if you're interested in more on that.
775
776==================================================
777
778Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/27 08:14
779
780REASONS WHY I DON'T AGREE WITH amazingdude
781Greenhouse gasses can negatively effect the earth to. Carbon Dioxide isn't only good, it kills the ozone layer and lets in UV rays, causing the world to warm up to unnatural temperatures. Polar ice is melting and the sea level is also rising, this is known as GLOBAL WARMING. Global warming harms plants and animals like in the colder areas, the polar bears must get to land sooner because of melting glaciers. FOSSIL FUELS ARE NOT A CLEAN SOURCE OF ENERGY. Smog caused by burning fossil fuels are also harming the environment, and people in certain areas must wear masks because of this. FOSSILS FUELS ARE NOT GOOD.
782
783I also forgot that carbon dioxide is part of acid rain, which is not good at all which is quite obvious. I'm going to make an upload about all of this! And it will explain what I believe, which is science. Who knows? Maybe global warming does not exist, but I believe it does. BTW, "Carbon dioxide is a colorless gas with a density about 60% higher than that of air that is odorless at normally encountered concentrations. Carbon dioxide consists of a carbon atom covalently double bonded to two oxygen atoms." 
784
785==================================================
786
787Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/27 08:55
788
789CO2 does not damage the ozone layer, those'd be CFCs that do that.
790
791==================================================
792
793Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/05/27 09:10
794
795The pastebin wars.
796
797==================================================
798
799Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/27 11:03
800
801Volume 2
802
803@Toucans
804Acid rain is caused by sulfur and nitrogen oxides, not CO2.
805
806==================================================
807
808amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/27 13:11
809
810https://pastebin.com/CwQ31aJY
811
812@Vidkunssonn
8131. We breathe in 400ppm of co2 every breath. That doesnt hurt us, so by this definition, co2 is non-toxic.
814 
8152. Sunlight is also the basis of life on earth. CO2 and sunlight are the basis of plant life, which is the basis for animal life. If we take all the co2 out of the air, we fucking die, because all the plants would die, and we would starve. Pretty essential for life.
816 
8173. All of my replies have been rebuttals. I watch hour long interviews with climate realists every day. I'm not scared of manmade climate change. How can i be scared after all ive said against it?
818 
8194. That gray shit is not CO2. Thats other toxins.
820 
8215. Climatic Research Unit email controversy. Most gates are actually real. Honestly, I wouldnt be surpirzed if pizzagate was real.
822 
8236. Eco-terrorism. Greenpeace, PETA, ELF, etc. All this pro enviornmentalist crap. Its anti-humanism at this point.
824 
8257. Vaccines do not cause autism, i only used that as an example of a consensus being misleading. Yes, there is a small chance of vaccines causing rashes and fatigue or mild sickness, but that doesnt mean they cause autism, just like the small chance that humans MIGHT contribute to 0.5 percent of warming in a century, but that doesnt mean humans cause all climate change. Consensus does not equal fact. 97% of scientists once thought the earth was flat. 97% of scientists once thought the sun orbits the earth. 97% of scientists once thought gravity wasnt real.
826 
8278. CO2 is non toxic, see #1.
828 
8299. Just dismissing it as fake science?
830 
83110. He said that we cannot track extinctions in the past. We cannot prove more species are going extinct now if we dont know past extinction rates during past warm periods.
832 
83311. He's a great leader, he's done a good job so far. He's trying, but cucked congress is blocking him.
834 
835@TK
836 
837Ahh, makes sense now. I thought you meant anticorporate as in the government should control everything. I agree with your stance about free market.
838 
839@Toucans
840 
841https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJWq1FeGpCw
842https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Teja5YNCo
843 
844I posted those before, but they explain very well how fossil fuels are clean energy and beneficial for humans. Smog is because their cars are inefficient. doesnt make all fossil fuels bad. You are one of those people who dont want humans to advance as a species, and want us to resort back to tribal societies to save the earth. You are anti-human. Limiting the advancement of a civilization to preserve their planet is like a computer limiting its power to preserve its components. Melting ice is due to natural warming, and it has happened before, and will continue to happen. Climate is always changing. Stop bitching about it and learn to adapt. You cant change the climate, but you can adapt to the climate. You are like a parasite of the human civilization.
845 
846@Sigma
847I like that idea :)
848
849==================================================
850
851Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/28 07:35
852
853People are listening? I thought nobody cared. SOMEONE NOTICED YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY. WWWWOOOOOOWWWWWEEEEEEE
854
855I still dont like Co2
856
857==================================================
858
859amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/28 10:54
860
861@Toucans
862Well I guess you hate life then
863
864==================================================
865
866Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/28 16:13
867
868https://pastebin.com/iv5Hu06R
869
8701) He's talking about the OTHER gases that burning coal releases, you moron.
871 
8722) CO2 is not the most important gas on the face of the planet. Plants need CO2 just as much as they need O2, H2O, and other things. Stop worshiping CO2.
873 
8743) Your "rebuttals", as you call them, are you practically saying "No it's not" to everything we say. You use no evidence to support yourself, you don't explain or describe anything.. Do you KNOW how discussions work?
875 
8764) Yes, there are other toxins, but CO2 is still entirely unhelpful in that situation.
877 
8785) You're a fucking nut. I bet you're a fan of Alex Jones.
879 
8806) That's good. Now, do the OTHER step YOU are supposed to take and GIVE THE EVIDENCE. This is an internet discussion. You're not doing a good job by giving me a list of things to Google.
881 
8827) Yes, now it's the other way around. 97% of people believe the earth is a sphere, these days, and that's dropping because people don't know how vast our human scientific discovery has become. They take a look at a single statistic or geometry equation and change their entire view-point on the earth, and it's pretty saddening and pathetic. (POINT OF INFERENCE: I whole-heartedly believe the earth is a sphere.)
883 
8848) Never said it was. Not once in that entire paragraph.
885 
8869) No, I'm dismissing it as unrelated. Stop assuming shit and actually READ what I'm saying.
887 
88810) It's unhelpful to your "point" to say "nobody knows".
889 
89011) You're a sheep.
891 
892"You are one of those people who dont want humans to advance as a species, and want us to resort back to tribal societies to save the earth."
893What the fuck is wrong with you? You don't know anything about Toucans and here you are calling him a wannabe-Neanderthal. I get trying to stress your belief, but you've gone too far. This needs to stop.
894
895==================================================
896
897amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/28 21:17
898
899@Pastebin Wars
900https://pastebin.com/CEyqtA3m
901
9021. Such as? What other gasses are there and what do they do?
903 
9042. It may not be THE most important, but its pretty damn close to it. We should rightfully celebrate co2 for the life it gives, as without it, the earth would be a dead planet.
905 
9063. Have you read my 5 paragraph essay i posted a while back? That whole thing explains my stance and refuts all your arguments.
907 
9084. Unhelpful does not equal bad.
909 
9105. I dont watch alex jones. I like to keep my sanity.
911 
9126. Your not doing a good job either by not googling them.
913 
9147. It's an oblate spheroid.
915 
9168. "It's toxic because the CO2 levels in the breathed air are rising, lowering the O2 levels"
917 
9189. So cosmic rays affecting cloud cover is completely unrelated to the climate?
919 
92010. In that case, it was helpful to say nobody knows. We cant confirm modern extinction rates are higher if we dont know past rates.
921 
92211. I'm a sheep for liking our leader? You're also a sheep for blindly following what the government tells you about climate change without questioning it.
923 
92412. I maybe went too far attacking him. I was attacking enviornmentalists, not him specifically. I apologize, toucans. Didnt mean it directly at you. Some radical enviornmentalists are equalivalent to wannabe neanderthals.
925
926==================================================
927
928Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/28 22:41
929
930https://pastebin.com/yu43PVse
931
9321) CO, Sulfer and Nitrogen Oxides, and sometimes even Mercury and other heavy metals. You should know that coal ore is not 100% carbon when we burn it. It's closer to 80%, and the rest of it IS toxic when put in gaseous form from being burned.
933 
9342) It deserves as much celebration as dirt and penicillin.
935 
9363) More unsupported theories *claps*
937 
9384) It's still pushing O2 out of the ground air higher up where we aren't. That's detrimental.
939 
9405) Thank God. I'd've been more tempted to not respond if you were.
941 
9426) If I were to Google them, 99% of the results I get would be about how GOOD those things are. I shouldn't have to Google them in the first place, you're supposed to give me the evidence that supports that they're bad, not have me go look for it on my own, because chances are I won't find it.
943 
9447) I'm willing to accept the poles are flat, not the entire planet.
945 
9468) k
947 
9489) It's irrelevant to burning coal.
949 
95010) Yes, but the other side of that coin says you also can't say it ISN'T true.
951 
95211) I don't listen to anything the government says unless it's about new laws or military related. The government's purpose is to keep us humans from killing each other, so I only pay attention when the threat of other people hurting me is related.
953
954You're a sheep for believing that Congress isn't suppressing all of his decisions because they're actually bad. Congress suppresses his ideas because they're either unconstitutional or just bad politics. He's better than Hillary because he actually has leadership experience, which Hillary does not, but the leadership of a company is not all the same as the leadership of a country.
955
956
957==================================================
958
959amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/29 13:56
960
961@Vidkunssonn
962I prefer java as well, however if everybody uses html5, then html5 is required for physics to work as uploader intended. Java is more stable IMO.
963
964@Pastebin wars
965https://pastebin.com/pnd2h2Fk
966
9671. The amount of those chemicals are small and insignificant in coal.
968 
9692. Because the very chemical that makes life possible deserves as much credit as dirt.
970 
9713. Start refuting it then.
972 
9734. 0.04% CO2 isnt gonna displace any oxygen. If anything, its gonna displace mostly nitrogen, sice air is 78% nitrogen.
974 
9756. You havent cited any sources. I've cited 5 or so videos so far, more than you. Heres another: https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/ecoterrorism
976 
9777. The earth is mostly spherical, but technically an oblate spheroid. In a sense, the poles are slightly flatter.
978 
9799. But its relavant to climate change. The whole argument is about climate change, not oil.
980 
98110. Whats more likely. Species going extinct at alarming rates, or species going extinct at same rates as past?
982 
98311. You get your info from government funded sources, you might as well just get it straight from the government. Trumps policies are not bad. Congress just hates him because hes not part of the machine
984
985==================================================
986
987Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/30 02:15
988
989https://pastebin.com/WdvhEDwk
990
991I'm getting sick of using this site. This is not the supreme pasting site there is.
992 
9931) 20% is insignificant?
994 
9952) Exactly, but you're giving it TOO MUCH praise.
996 
9973)
998>"Real data shows there has been no warming since 1998."
999According to NASA, all but one of the 16 hottest years in the last 134 years were after 2000.
1000 
1001>"You really think that great ball of fire in the sky has less impact on global climate than burning a few gallons of dead plant material?"
1002They work together.
1003CO2 is a greenhouse gas, meaning it traps heat emitted from the sun on the earth to keep it warmer.
1004 
1005>"To believe this natural warming is caused by human activity and is killing the earth is delusionalism and insanity."
1006WE are the ones putting the majority of the CO2 into the atmosphere.
1007What's delusional and insanity is to exclude our behaviors and actions from what's considered "natural". We are a part of nature, and all of our doings are natural as well. If we were aliens from another planet, THEN you could say we aren't one with nature.
1008 
1009https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
1010http://www.livescience.com/topics/global-warming
1011https://www.nrdc.org/stories/global-warming-101
1012http://www.livescience.com/59096-animated-temperature-spiral-gets-update.html
1013 
10144) It's a LOT more than 0.04% around coal plants.
1015 
10166) You used exactly one source: PragerU. PragerU is entirely conservative, meaning they are against any form of change, despite the harm keeping down the same path might bring. They also don't cite sources.
1017 
10189) I joined this conversation talking about fossil fuels.
1019 
102010) As you said, "nobody knows".
1021 
102211) "Government funded" is not the same as "Government influenced". You treat everything funded by the government as if the government directly makes them change their data to support false claims. Alex Jones is one to believe like this. I trust the government only to keep me safe from the rest of the world and the stupid people in the cities, but I seriously doubt they make all climate research companies change their data and research to suggest things that say we're all going to die.
1023
1024==================================================
1025
1026Toucans					#DEBIj4XU 2017/05/30 02:43
1027
1028Are we finally done arguing about Co2 and stuff?
1029
1030==================================================
1031
1032Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/30 03:07
1033
1034That's entirely up to @amazingdude.
1035
1036==================================================
1037
1038amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/30 05:00
1039
1040@Toucans
1041not until everyone else is done. I agrue till the other gives up.
1042
1043@pastebin wars
1044Fine, I'll use meowbin. Did you create this?
1045
1046https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=9209vc3c1f
1047
10481. They exaggerate the toxins. Coal is 95% hydrocarbons, the same thing that makes up oil and gas.
1049
10502. Because it deserves praise for giving animal life to earth?
1051
10523. First off, you trust NASA, who gets its funding by scaring the public. They're no better than asking Exxon, or asking a cigarette company about lung cancer. NASA benefits from the fear.
1053
1054CO2 is not a significant greenhouse gas, and thats where the hole in their data is. Yes, we dump shitloads of CO2 into the air, but it doesnt cause warming. While yes, we technically are natural, most people exclude human activity from natural occurance. Human activity does not cause climate change.
1055
1056NASA is unreliable, as stated before. Livescience doesnt cite sources either. NRDC has committed ecoterrorism in the past.
1057
10584. So your saying that people are at risk of suffocation around coal plants? OK, it may be a little higher, maybe 1%, but thats only immediately around the plant. There wont be much of a difference further away.
1059
10606. So just because its conservative, makes it unreliable? Your sources are liberal, and want us to change everything, even what's not broken. No one source is better than another. It all depends on reliability, not being better. Have you even critically analyzed the videos?
1061
1062Sources: 
1063http://www.conservapedia.com/Global_warming (This one cites sources)
1064http://humanevents.com/2014/03/24/the-carbon-dioxide-level-is-dangerously-low/
1065https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Z5FdwWw_c
1066
10679. You wanna talk fossil fuels? Fossil fuels have transformed humanity from a tibal species into a intelligent civilization. Fossil fuels have saved billions of lives and made more billions possible. They are a cheap, plentiful, reliable energy source, that makes modern life possible. Renewables just aren't there yet. Wind and solar are weak and unreliable. Hydro is limited to only rivers and lakes, and nuclear is too high risk. I've gotten a little less harsh about nuclear once I started researching. The problem is that enviornmentalists dont want us to use fossil fuels, because they are supposedly contributing to climate change, and they are unnatural. The energy industry powers all other industries, and we need cheap, reliable, plentiful energy to power our society and advance as a species, but enviornmentalists wont let us. They're anti-human at this point. I fully support fracking.
1068
106910. Nobody knows, so why be so pessimistic about it?
1070
107111. The government has an interest in making us fear the climate. I dont know why so many people compare me to alex jones. I only watched like 3 of his videos and I was like "This dude is insane".
1072
1073==================================================
1074
1075Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/30 09:32
1076
1077@amazingdude
1078Yes, there's a Discord server dedicated to the entirety of Dan-Ball. You'll have to DM me and I'll have to give you the invite link like that.
1079Xyvyrianeth#7823
1080
1081>"I agrue till the other gives up."
1082lol or you scare the other away with your ignorance of basic science.
1083
1084And no, I did not create Meowbin. I've told you this already. I do know the creator, though. Lovely gal. She taught me the majority of what JavaScript I know.
1085She's also redoing the entire site, this time with an attempt to add accounts so we can edit pastes we upload to it, so we got that to look forward to! 
1086
1087Also, please be sure to make the paste private if it's just a block of text directed at one person in particular. I am at least glad you named it, though.
1088
1089==================================================
1090
1091amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/31 05:46
1092
1093Did you respond to my argument, or do you give up?
1094
1095==================================================
1096
1097Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/31 10:14
1098
1099@amazingdude
1100I've done neither. I get tired of arguing with people about subjects the other person hardly knows anything about. All they know is their own opinion, but as for any science of the matter, they're about as ignorant as they come. That's you in this argument. You know what scientists have researched and the data they've collected and published, but based on some of the crap you've said, you don't even understand what they're actually saying. Learn how chemistry works and I'll resume the argument.
1101
1102==================================================
1103
1104amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/05/31 12:56
1105
1106@Vidkunssonn
1107I've looked into the issue, and I have formed my opinions based on that, just like you looked into it and formed your opinions. I'm just as ignorant as you: You blindly trust the pro-alarmist side and never acknowledge the alternate side. I've acknowledged the alarmist side and debunked it. Send me a article, and I'll debunk it.
1108
1109Also, I've taken and passed Chemistry in high school. I know how chemistry works.
1110
1111==================================================
1112
1113Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/05/31 13:12
1114
1115How much of a moron do you think I am? You think I'm blindly believing everything I think is true simply because it doesn't match with your opinion. You keep assuming shit that isn't true or you know nothing about. I'm not some liberal that's closed-minded about everything I disagree with; I listen to the other side of everything I believe in and form conclusions based on evidence both sides bring forward.
1116
1117And I accept your challenge. Debunk all 15 references found here:
1118https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
1119
1120If you discredit NASA as an unreliable source simply because they're government-funded, I'm never speaking to you about this again, due to the fact you're a dumbass. 
1121
1122Everyone, If you want to stay on my good side, don't assume anything about me.
1123
1124==================================================
1125
1126COMMENT BOT				#CYDOyoro 2017/05/31 13:53
1127
1128Wow, you are all retarded. Good day and good night ;_;
1129
1130==================================================
1131
1132Hoopig					#JA6SzCa4 2017/06/01 02:17
1133
1134I like how we are arguing over climate change on a pastebin. Like a pastebin is going to change the world
1135
1136==================================================
1137
1138Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/01 09:53
1139
1140I remember how that hacking thing about the movie The Interview involved a message over pastebin. That didn't exactly change the world, but it got pretty close.
1141
1142==================================================
1143
1144amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/01 11:53
1145
1146@vidkunssonn
1147I'm still working on debunking NASA. I've gotten 7 sources debunked, gonna finish later tonight.
1148
1149==================================================
1150
1151Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#zGN4CiFF 2017/06/01 12:09
1152
1153@amazingdude
1154You do not need to debunk NASA's references. I have looked into the science, and confirmed that climate change is in fact 100% natural, and possibly beneficial for the earth.
1155
1156==================================================
1157
1158Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/01 12:41
1159
1160WTF, that isn't me...
1161
1162==================================================
1163
1164Chez					#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/02 12:58
1165
1166You can't post 3x in a row. Wtf. Even if he got haked it shouldn't have let u post
1167
1168==================================================
1169
1170Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/03 02:03
1171
1172It wasn't a hack, someone made a new account with the 's's replaced with unicode characters that only look like 's's but aren't really 's's.
1173
1174==================================================
1175
1176Fake StarTrekÐ…pock		#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/04 12:01
1177
1178Hi yall
1179
1180==================================================
1181
1182Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/05 01:10
1183
1184Once again the comments section has degenerated 
1185
1186==================================================
1187
1188Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/05 02:27
1189
1190My dick is tiny. Please make it bigger.
1191
1192==================================================
1193
1194The Muskadillo			#S7aj3ZLU 2017/06/05 02:29
1195
1196the startrekspock is a fake account. click on the name. the only post is the get rert thing.
1197
1198==================================================
1199
1200Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#N1hn3TpZ 2017/06/05 04:38
1201
1202No its not retard
1203
1204==================================================
1205
1206amazingdud				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/05 09:28
1207
1208Why does all the fun stuff happen while im on vacation? Vidkunssonn and STS get haced/faked/whatever
1209
1210==================================================
1211
1212Fake amazingdude		#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/05 09:59
1213
1214It's really not that hard to fake someone, if you don't worry about the ID #.
1215
1216==================================================
1217
1218skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/05 09:59
1219
1220I mean, the name isn't in bold, but most people don't notice that anyway, in my experience.
1221
1222==================================================
1223
1224Fake amazÑ–ngdude		#zKjtz4RH 2017/06/05 11:26
1225
1226@Vid
1227I'm sorry for denying climate science. I was wrong all along. I'm just a retarded cuckservative who eats up what fox tells me without questioning it.
1228
1229==================================================
1230
1231amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/05 12:01
1232
1233i honestly cannot tell who's real and who's fake. 
1234
1235==================================================
1236
1237StarTrekSpock			#MSszoBWk 2017/06/05 13:36
1238
1239Copy the person's name before the "hacked accounts" started showing up and f3 to search for the names. The fake accounts have different names from the real ones. Although I can't see it, f3 can differentiate between them
1240
1241==================================================
1242
1243Fake Vidkunѕѕonn		#USLP5jMW 2017/06/05 15:09
1244
1245I'm the real vidkunson!
1246
1247==================================================
1248
1249amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/08 10:03
1250
1251@vidkunssonn
1252tbh ive lost interest in debunking nasa, its just the same crap all over again. I'll post what I have, I managed to debunk 6 of the references (one was a duplicate, one I just could not understand). I know its not all of them, I just lost interest in finishing the job.
1253https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=f021h74308
1254
1255I knew you were gonna post the NASA article. Shoulda made it an exclusion. Mistakes on me, then.
1256
12571. The graphs on page 3 do not show the full picture. Graph a on page 3 only shows the last 150 years, well after warming began. It does not suggest human activity is the cause. The same with graph b, sea levels have been rising since the last glacial maximum, 15,000 years ago. Graph c and d shows greenhouse gasses, except their potency is being exaggerated in models and predictions, and the predictions do not reflect reality. Yes, sea levels are rising, and ice caps are melting, but they are not anything unusual. During the medieval warm period, there was less ice than today. There are viking burial sites currently underneath permafrost, that were not under permafrost while they were in use, from 1000-1400, the duration of the medieval warm period. Antarctic ice is growing, however, and is at record maximums. While yes, greenhouse gasses do warm the earth, the amount they do in reality is much less than they do in the predictions, because the predictions run on the assumption that CO2, CH4, etc. are stronger than they actually are. The impacts are also exaggerated. Because the earth is getting slightly warmer, there should be more land usable for farming the further north you go, because that land now isnt too hot for farming. While some species are at risk, more species will have their habitats expanded, since there are less species in colder regions. 
1258
1259Ocean acidification is not possible, as the ocean is already alkaline. To turn the ocean acid, you would need more than all the CO2 on earth into the oceans. The oceans are massive. Extreme weather events are actually down in the last 100 years. Hurricanes, tornados, fires, floods, droughts, tsunamis are all down in the past 100 years. Even if they become more common, by the use of fossil fuels (discussed earlier), we will be able to deal with them better. The future of the climate is unlikely to be much worse than observed in the past, as the climate is not changing any faster than the past. Greenhouse gas emissions will go up, but the effects of such emissions will be very small compared to natural climate change by the sun or other factors. Most of what is said in the report is true of any warm period. The earths climate is always changing, and life has and will survive. More heat waves will happen, as have in past warm periods. There will be more rainfall, as a warmer earth means more evaporation, meaning more clouds and more rainfall. Food shortages could be avoided if we adapt to a changing climate. 
1260Taking advantage of now-usable land further north to use for farmland, and higher CO2 levels would mean more plant growth. At current levels, plants are starving CO2. Species are able to adapt to changing climate, otherwise they would have gone extinct already. Current extinction levels are no higher than in the past.
1261
1262There is no such thing as "irreversible climate change." The earth was once much warmer and with much higher CO2 levels than today, and its certainly not like that anymore. Besides, an asteroid can come and fuck it all up at any time. 
1263
12642. This is true, except that the amount of CO2 required to produce a huge temperature change would be so high, we'd have to turn all the carbon on earth into CO2 to even get close to that happening.
1265
12663. *Sigh*, the hockeystick. This is an example of manipulated data. They took samples in many different areas, but only a few of them didnt show the roman and medieval warm periods. And they used only those ones to make the graph, and if you counted all the samples, you would see those warm periods on the graph. The hockeystick has been debunked numerous times in the climate realist community. The models exaggerate the effects of the greenhouse gasses. In reality, the effects of increased greenhouse gasses are minimal and not enough to cause a noticable change.
1267
12684. This source is identical to #1, which has already been debunked.
1269
12705. Like I said before, the modern temperature rise is nothing unusual in terms of the Earth's history, and has started rising well before industrialization began. So is sea level, which has been rising at a constant rate since the end of the last major glaciation. Because the earth is warming, melting ice and snow is expected. This is typical of all warming periods. The effects of all of these are being exaggerated. Climate models run on the assumption that greenhouse gasses are much stronger than they actually are, and that is where the predicted temperature spike comes in. CO2 is actually a weak greenhouse gas. More CO2 is good for the earth but I'm not gonna "worship" CO2 here. And in the solar activity graph, I definitely see a correlation, each solar activity spike causes a minor bump in the average temperature. When solar activity fell for the last time, you see a small dip in temperature. Finally, once again, cropped data. The timescale begins with us coming out of the little ice age, and the beginning of the modern warm period. Nothing unusual.
1271
12726. The warming seen this century is nothing unusual compared to the past. Because of uncertainties, you cannot reliably compare this year to the past. Perhaps changes in methods were to produce a false sense of warming. This modern warm period is caused by natural factors, not co2, as co2's strength as a greenhouse gas is not as strong as popularly believed. The rate of warming is similar to the beginning of the medieval warm period and roman warm period. The black graph at the bottom is also unreliable. It's comparing records to averages. Apples to oranges.
1273
12747. I'm gonna be honest here, I'm having a hard time trying to understand this source. I dont think I can do this one.
1275
12768. Sea ice may be going down slightly, as expected in a natural warm period. Satellite data started in 1979, during the frenzy of global cooling. We have no proof of arctic sea ice before then. The medieval warm period likely had less sea ice than now. There was less greenland ice back then, as some viking burial grounds are now covered in permafrost. It only makes sense that there was less sea ice back then, where it was warmer than today. While arctic sea ice may be lower, antarctic sea ice is at record high levels, which evens out the arctic decline. Globally, there is no decline in ice, which is to be expected, as the temperature has not risen since 1998.
1277
1278Side note, found a relly great video with all the facts and graphs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2iggJN4Etw
1279
1280==================================================
1281
1282Fjen					#yvRmGXVJ 2017/06/08 17:54
1283
1284holy poop. this guy whos probably in high school claims to be smarter than every climate scientist in the world and tried to prove them wrong. its amazing people even waste their time trying to debunk proven science. amazing dude, you are brave, yet stupid. fracking retard.
1285
1286==================================================
1287
1288amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/09 09:48
1289
1290@Fjen
1291I'm not smarter than them, they are deliberately tricking us. I see what you did there with fracking.
1292
1293@Vidkunssonn
1294Where u at boi?
1295
1296==================================================
1297
1298Fjen					#sg2MpuFj 2017/06/09 11:43
1299
1300@amazing dude
1301hahahahaha conspiritard. go run crying back to alex jones when your house is underwater in 20 years. climate change is happening. the science is settled. do not try to deny it. why would they want you to think the earth is being destroyed if it is not? trump does not care about you. trump could not give half a poop about the average man. all he cares about is the rich.
1302
1303i seriously hope you pull your head out of your butt and realize what is happening. you are going to make the earth unlivable. i beg you to watch "an inconvenient truth" and "an inconventient sequel" when it comes out. do not listen to fox news. it is all bought out and paid for corporate propaganda. denying humans climate change is like denying that smoking causes cancer. even some of your holy men in congress have agreed that climate change is real. the deniers are walking on thin ice at this point.
1304
1305==================================================
1306
1307Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/09 23:07
1308
1309He's mainly arguing that climate change is normal, natural, and good for Earth (which I completely disagree with, but I'm sure he's more than happy to reshare the links to his articles)
1310
1311==================================================
1312
1313SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/09 23:37
1314
1315Well what did I miss something about climate change I all I'm getting.
1316
1317==================================================
1318
1319amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/10 04:24
1320
1321@Fjen
1322Its not a conspiracy. Its fact. No science is ever settled. Before Copernicus, the science was settled that the sun orbits the earth. That turned out to be untrue, just like manmade climate change. Yes, climate is changing, just like it always has, and it has never destroyed the earth.
1323
1324Trump based his whole campaign on the working man, who has been left behind by politicans. Just because hes rich doesnt mean he hates us.
1325
1326Al gore is making a second alarmist propaganda bullshit fear mongering piece of crap movie? LOLOLOLOLOLOLAHAHAHAHAHAHAPLPDSLK!!! The first one has been debunked to death, and lost Al Gore all of his credibility. This movie is gonna flop and fail worse than Vidkunssonn does at arguing. Mark my words.
1327
1328Fox news is not bought out propaganda, its simply another viewpoint. Just because it doesnt align with your views doesnt mean its fake. Also, there is absolutely nothing in common between human activity and climate change vs cigarettes and cancer. In fact, more and more congressmen are coming out against the great hoax.
1329
1330All of your arguments are simply unsourced lies and fraud. Lol, calling us deniers. A better term would be skeptic, or even realist.
1331
1332==================================================
1333
1334Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/10 06:04
1335
1336https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=3308h24a0c
1337
1338
1339@amazingdude
1340I was on a cruise in the Caribbean for a week. I'm a little disappointed I didn't encounter any pirates while in International Waters, but I did at least get a beer tour from Captain Blah-Blah and got to remind myself that I hate the taste of alcohol. I also got a new deck of cards. Hadn't had a new deck in a while. That's a total of 2 from a foreign country (1st from the Virgin Islands, 2nd from the Bahamas, 3rd hopefully from Sweden).
1341
1342And honestly, I don't give a shit about the climate change argument anymore. I feel more relaxed now than I have in a long time, and starting that up again will just ruin it. I have more important things to worry myself about, like my Discord bot and learning the PG(2) script so that I could potentially mod it.
1343
1344==================================================
1345
1346Fjenn					#KuVJebpn 2017/06/10 07:23
1347
1348Sorry this is too long I cannot post it here it is pastebin.com/zMazZkM2
1349
1350@vid
1351i am glad you are not arguing with this science denier any more.
1352
1353@amazing dude
1354what you are saying is a conspiracy by definiton. you are a conspiracy theorist. at this point in time, you are as credible as moon landing deniers. wat does the oil industry have to gain by denying climate science? money. climate science is anti oil and they want you to keep burning oil. what do enviornmentalists have to gain from denying oil propaganda? saving the fucking earth.
1355 
1356i have watched your "proof" videos. the first guy worshipping fossil fuels is a puppet who receives money from oil companies to bullshit the public. the second guy spewing out nonsense about co2 is a lobbyist who refused to drink a chemical he claimed was safe. you seriously trust these frauds? ill give you an analogy: if you were injured and needed a surgery, 30 doctors said you should get it, and 1 doctor said no, would you get the surgery?
1357 
1358donald trump is also paid for by the rich. he has no interest in helping you. he hates mexicans, muslims, blacks, gays, trans, women, athiests, and pretty much everybody. he is a puppet of the rich and white supremacists sent to resegregate america and make it an all white country. he is going back in time. he is literally backwards. and you worship him.
1359 
1360al gore is a credible enviornmentalist with science to back up his claims. do you really expect him to downplay the threat of manmade climate change? if anything, "alarmism" is good, since it gets people scared and more willing to take action. and his statement about ice caps melting by 2014 was the extreme worst possible estimate. the comparison between climate change and smoking cancer is a perfect example: industry discovers science against them, try to cover it up, people find out, and expose them on their lies. this is happening to climate change denial. that is what you are: a denier. not a skeptic, not a realist. you deny science and use bought out fraud sources. i do not need sources. i am speaking truth. 100 per cent fact.
1361 
1362take your head out of your ass and come back to reality, amazing dude.
1363
1364==================================================
1365
1366SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/10 08:15
1367
1368So let me get this straight everyone here or Vidkunssonn amazingdude and Fjen are talking about climate change in Ahem powder game 2? Yeah I'm way off so someone please explain.
1369
1370thanks for the "explanation" Just bored as hell and very VERY confused as to what is happening I mean first debunking NASA then arguing about Climate Change?!? True It's none of my business but keeping up with this propaganda stunt is a circus all in itself.
1371
1372==================================================
1373
1374amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/10 11:20
1375
1376@Vidkunssonn
1377You gave up, so I won?
1378
1379@sky
1380Click 1000 posts and start reading up from the point I first say climate change is natural. Watch these alarmist bullshiters make fools out of themselves and watch me blow their arguments off the fucking earth. Its a giant shitshow.
1381
1382@Fjen
1383https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=3a15hc16c6
1384
1385@Vidkunssonn
1386
1387You gave up, so I won?
1388
1389@sky
1390
1391Click 1000 posts and start reading up from the point I first say climate change is natural. Watch these alarmist bullshiters make fools out of themselves and watch me blow their arguments off the fucking earth. Its a giant shitshow.
1392
1393@Fjen
1394
1395Your responses are full of self contradictory bullshit. You say I'm a conspiracy theorist, yet you say that the rich and powerful are fucking everyone else over for their own benefit. The idea that oil companies are covering up science. Thats more of a conspiracy. What I say is fact. You ask me for sources, yet you dont give any because you dont need to. You say I just discredit the other side because its not my belief, yet you do the same to fox news and my youtube videos. You type like you are in the second grade just parroting what your parents say. To say that I'm like a moon landing denier is retardation at its finest. I'm not denying science. I'm exposing the radical enviornmentalists bullshit, and yall just blindly follow what lord Obama tells you.
1396
1397Enviornmenalists are the enemies of the earth. They are a limiting factor of human success. They stop us from using the earth to better our species just because a couple fucking trees that dont matter are gonna die. Absolutely fucking stupid. They want us to go back to being monkeys swinging from trees because anything that betters humanity has some impact on the earth.
1398
1399My 5 videos are from a university. The first guy, Alex Epstein, is not a shill from the FF industry. He is a philosopher, and founder of the center for industrial progress. He does not receive funding from anybody. In this day and age, you cant support FFs without being called a climate change denier who hates the earth. FFs right now are our best energy source. The second guy, Patrick Moore, is the co-founder of Greenpeace, and has a degree in Ecology. This guy knows his science, and if you watch his videos, he goes in great detail about how global warming and CO2 are good for the earth, and that it is not caused by humans.
1400
1401Your surgery analogy is a bad one. It costs nothing for me to get the surgery, as I have nothing to lose by getting it. But talking about the climate, we have everything to lose by abandoning our most reliable energy source, causing billions of people to suffer, costing trillions of dollars in the end to prevent something that is 100% natural, beneficial, and might not even be stoppable. Is it really worth it?
1402
1403You've bought into the media hysteria about Trump. Congratulations. I'm not even gonna debunk this since it is borderline insanity (talk about conspiracy, lol) and its irrelevant to the climate. And I'm glad he pulled out of the Paris agreement.
1404
1405Al Gore credible my ass. He is a politican turned radical enviornmentalist by lobbyists voming 100% pure garbage paid for by the radical enviornmental industry. Alarmism is the modern day case of the boy who cried wolf. They give us a false sense of doom so much that when they make a serious claim, nobody believes them because their predictions all came out false. And you call rational people "downplaying". Are you his grandson or something? I'm hoping his 2014 prediction was not serious, as there is no way that he coulda been serious. 2025 maybe, but 2014 is insanity.
1406
1407Your cigarettes and cancer analogy is once again flawed. Cigarettes and cancer is science, human activity and global warming is not. You're not even open minded about my science. You just shut down like Hillary Clinton and call me a denier. Before you call me closed minded, I once held negative opinions about hydro and nuclear. I have since changed my views after I did research. I read Vidkunssonn's article, analyzed it, and then debunked half of its sources. And yet you call me a denier, after I explain my viewpoint and my sources. Who's the real denier here?
1408
1409Why do I need sources, and you don't? Because I dont have the same views as you? Because you have a consensus behind you, even though a consensus doesnt mean shit? You have yet to give one source. I have given 5. Your self contradictions are astounding, and your replies are as weak as your gods' science. Yeah, I have my head up my ass, by critically thinking about the issue and forming my opinion based on a variety of different viewpoints, as opposed to somebody who just worships their enviornmentalist gods and blindly follows them. Who really has their head up their ass?
1410
1411==================================================
1412
14139132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/06/10 11:31
1414
1415Whoever denies NASA is pretty dumb considering how much equipment they use to make facts about weather. It is pysically IMPOSSIBLE. DON'T DENY NASA.
1416
1417==================================================
1418
1419amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/10 12:54
1420
1421@9132
1422Are you Fjen? I never denied NASA, I debunked them. 2 different things.
1423
1424==================================================
1425
1426Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/10 14:14
1427
1428Just because someone is sick of your bit, doesn't mean that you won.
1429Also you still haven't provided anything resembling a Realpolitik profit-motive required for a conspiracy to throw that much money at a hoax. Since your entire argument hinges on the global science community being bribed, maybe you should focus on that instead of "debunking" evidence with youtube links.
1430
1431==================================================
1432
1433Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/10 14:39
1434
1435https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=fc27hf58c1
1436
1437@amazingdude
1438>You gave up, so I won?
1439You're a fucking cunt. I don't argue with cunts because it's beneath me to do so. They don't ever shut up simply because they believe they're "too right" to not talk about it, even when they're told to by literally everyone else. You've been asked like a dozen times to just stop talking because nobody wants to go through this same shit again and again and again, and you keep bringing it up. You're like a fucking flat-earther. Just get over it. Nobody cares. Your words are like sand in my eyes. This argument is as shitty as your taunts. You don't even know what I'm arguing for and you're telling me I'm shit at arguing when you're arguing with me about the wrong fucking thing. Yes, I know Global Warming and Climate Change is natural, but no, I do not believe humans do not affect it. You are a fool for believing we aren't detrimental to the planet in one way or another, but you're a fool even more so for assuming I believe we're gonna destroy it. Not even God will destroy this planet before Judgement Day. You're too into this pointless shit. You're not proving any points, you're not saving any lives; you're just making people angry and annoyed and you need to fucking stop.
1440
1441==================================================
1442
1443Fjen					#uG7ln3Ct 2017/06/10 18:36
1444
1445@amazing dude
1446you are also full of self contradicting statements. i am not going to waste my time arguing with a retard who does not believe in science and just watches alex jones all day. you can not reason with these people. you are worse than a flat earther, because unlike flat earthers, you will destroy the earth. vid just demolised your ass and blew you off the earth. see you underwater in 2020 :)
1447
1448==================================================
1449
1450Zeus					#pNoXDzXu 2017/06/10 18:45
1451
1452@Fjen
1453Who here has a bad opinion? I will strike down thee!
1454
1455==================================================
1456
1457amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/11 03:49
1458
1459@TK
1460Have you been following the discussion?
1461
1462@Vidkunssonn
1463So you dont want me to tell the truth about climate change? You dont want to argue because I'm right and you dont wanna get proven wrong. How am I like a flat earther? I dont deny science and put forth pure bullshit. I state the facts. What makes me a fool for not believing the same bullshit as you? Nothing. You're the fool who believes it. This is not pointless, I am saving lives, and I am exposing the turth.
1464
1465@Fjen
1466You're the science denier by saying we're all gonna burn up in a CO2 greenhouse. Yet you call me a science denier by saying im worse than a FLAT EARTHER? LOLWTF!!! Keep saying I'll fall off my iceberg, alarmist.
1467
1468==================================================
1469
14709132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/06/11 04:20
1471
1472Who the heck cares about global warming? Its not like it will affect our life anyway unless we live to be like 2000 years old someday.
1473
1474@amazingdude
1475Your just causing unecessary panic. Stop thinking i'm Fgen because of where I stand with NASA. I'll tell you if there is a fake 9132 ruining my image.
1476
1477==================================================
1478
1479Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/11 04:37
1480
1481Once someone has established a belief, they believe everyone who has an opposing belief is wrong. In other words, both sides think the other is full of idiots. In this situation, there isn't enough information to determine who is probably truly right without looking at the facts directly. However, if one side has a significant following compared to the other, odds are the one with the larger following is right. It's not definitely right, but probably.
1482
1483The point of this comment is to say that while amazingdude thinks the other side is the fools, he doesn't *actually know* if he's right. As far as he knows, everything that has ever been told to him is a lie (before he complains about the one-sidedness of this, I better say that everyone else also could be wrong without conducting tests themselves). Just talking about how unreasonable the other side is won't change their views, and that is what this discussion has essentially become. Though I should point out that the pro-climate side has repeatedly tried to put it down, but amazingdude keeps bringing it back to the "idiot calling" situation I mentioned above.
1484
1485@9132
14861. It will start to affect us in only a few years.
14872. The concern is partly what our *future* generations would experience. It would be pretty selfish to not care what their world would be like since our actions now decide it.
1488
1489==================================================
1490
14919132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/06/11 05:47
1492
1493@Sigma
1494You watched The Day after Tomorrow too?
1495
1496Also, I admit fully that global warming may hurt us in a few years, but what of that? If the E.M.P. ( Electro - magnetic pulse ) bomb hits us, We won't have to worry about global warming. No for me, at least, because unlike other people, I don't depend on tablets or phones. ( I'm in Arizona, so I don't care about glaciers, even though we depend on them sometimes).
1497
1498==================================================
1499
1500Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/11 10:39
1501
1502I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with this. I have the censored words in it (there's only one) fixed to not be sensed by the censor, but I can't figure out what else is wrong :/
1503https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=cc27h5a700
1504
1505Holy shit, this place has become really, really active.
1506
1507@amazingdude
1508Are you serious? I want you to shut up because you're continuing a pointless argument that won't ever be won. This will just go on until one of us dies because you're too stubborn to accept the fact that maybe nobody cares about what you think about it. You're like a flat-earther because you prioritize and practice a belief that has no effect on your life.
1509
1510"The earth is really flat."
1511So?
1512"Humans will not destroy the world with excess Carbon Dioxide emissions."
1513So?
1514
1515How is telling people that there's nothing wrong saving their lives? You're not warning them of any potential danger, you're just saying there isn't any, which doesn't help us prepare for anything. Telling a man "it won't kill you" won't help him. You're the fool because you waste your time preaching something that has no effect on the people who listen (and for assuming my beliefs for what they aren't, but I'll get over that because I'm used to people doing it).
1516Tell us something that will actually BENEFIT us knowing.
1517
1518@9132
1519Every comment has a unique "id" code in the top right corner of the box, just left of the date and time of the comments submission. Yours is "#iabR3RgQ". Mine is "#6gkHelVa". The only way that would ever change is if you clear your cookies or log in on a different device and then submit a comment.
1520
1521==================================================
1522
1523Fjen					#xO9nYD6i 2017/06/11 12:00
1524
1525thank you guys for backing me up and not falling for the retard denier amazing dude
1526and i am certain that the scientists are right about climate change. we will see who is right in 20 years amazing dude.
1527
1528@vid
1529it is too long
1530
1531==================================================
1532
1533Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/12 03:41
1534
1535@amazingdude 
1536My internet went out for about a week but I've mostly caught up since then.
1537If I'm interpreting this correctly, you think a measly increase in very conditional political power is a good enough reason to blow millions of dollars on a hoax and implied various governments and corporations are involved presumably as a way to strengthen that position. Are you aware of how silly that sounds even with the benefit of the doubt?
1538
1539Imagine if this supposed conspiracy were about Atlantis instead; all of that effort and money being pumped into convincing people that Atlantis is real so that they'll turn around and demand that their puppet masters drain the Mediterranean Sea thus giving the main players involved more influence- and all it took was an absurd amount of money invested into Caligulan propaganda and advanced pumping equipment. 
1540
1541==================================================
1542
1543amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 05:25
1544
1545https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=4e51v92e04
1546debunk
1547
1548Holy shit this board is active.
1549
1550@9132
1551Increasing gas prices, carbont taxes, increasing energy prices, laws and regulations, etc. will affect you. All those things are based on a hoax. We dont have to worry about it, even without the EMP.
1552
1553@Esigma
1554Why dont you log in? Your comment may be true, but I've done research, and I believe I am more correct than you. I do know I'm right, and a consensus doesnt prove anything. There was consensus the sun orbited the earth. There waa consensus that Relativity wasnt real. There was consensus the earth was flat. Why should I believe the wrong scenario just to agree with the consensus? Global warming has many more positive effects than negative. I would be excited about global warming.
1555
1556@Vidkunssonn
1557This argument is about spreading truth. How is it pointless? I'll keep this up until you die, I'm willing to argue for years. Global warming does have an effect on our lives. If the alarmists get their way, we get pointless regulations, price increases, laws, etc. that will have no effect and only serve to prevent a nonexistant threat. I want people to know that we do not need to take action, and that global warming is natural and good. Telling people there is nothing wrong is saying the truth. Banning FFs will take away our #1 energy source, and the billions of poor people who depend on cheap energy will suffer because their energy source will be taken away just because of a nonexistant hoax. You will BENEFIT for knowing this.
1558
1559@Fjen
1560Watch me come out right. Consensus =/= correct. Alarmists have been making false predictions for years now, and they will continue to be what they are: Hot air. Also, I'm not a denier, I'm a skeptic/realist.
1561
1562@TK
1563What are you talking about? That is not my beliefs. Are you gonna debunk the 11 "Fallacies" after Vidkunssonn lost?
1564
1565https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=9209vc3c1f
1566
1567==================================================
1568
1569Fjen					#4dNY21J8 2017/06/12 08:28
1570
1571@amazing dude
1572give up. you lost.
1573
1574==================================================
1575
1576amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 11:41
1577
1578@Fjen
1579I'll never give up. Not until these fools do.
1580
1581==================================================
1582
1583Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/12 11:52
1584
1585https://pastebin.com/FVF19CDV
1586
15871) Wait so ruining 1% of land we're not using is too high of a cost but poisoning 5% of the immediate area around our living areas isn't? How is that not a point for nuclear power over coal?
1588 
15892) Praising chemicals for purely incidental reactions is kind of cringy. I don't know maybe you're just a neopagan or something, but it's hard to take you seriously when you sound like the same people anthropomorphizing "Mother Earth" as some nurturing figure while conveniently ignore all the awful things that entity is also responsible for.
1590 
15913) NASA gets it's funding with groundbreaking discoveries like graphene and aerogel.
1592 
15934) Same percentage double standard that you used to say nuclear power wasn't worth the vastly superior yields.
1594 
15959) You need a history lesson or seven, because fossil fuels didn't come into major use until the middle of the Industrial Revolution and there were plenty of civilized societies before that point. The early United States, for instance, and basically all of Europe and Asia- there were some tribal societies in the far reaches of the world, but that's still true today as even the Sentinelese remain uncontacted.
1596 
159710) We've discovered a lot of pharmaceuticals from now endangered plants and animals, each one that goes extinct cuts into the bottom line of how cheaply our species can make medicine.
1598 
159911) Governments in general have more interest in maintaining the status quo than rocking the boat. If they change the political climate too much it could cost them the conditions that keep them in office, an autocracy wouldn't have as much problems with the sort of propaganda you're suggesting but a democratic republic has to at least make a show of caving to the public's demands, which gets prohibitively expensive after a while if the public keeps demanding that thing. It's easier to just grab power in one of the usual ways like starting a popular war, stopping an unpopular war, slightly lowering taxes, or slightly increasing the benefits of taxes.
1600 
1601It's like a Prisoner's Dilemma, except there a few hundred Prisoners and they all have different conditions to get freedom.
1602
1603==================================================
1604
1605Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/12 13:19
1606
1607@uhmeighzheengdude
1608You're still on about it?
1609Just stop. I don't care what you think about it. Your opinion about it does not affect how I go about living my life. You're also still stuck in the mindset that I give in to this "hoax" you keep talking about. Stop assuming shit and actually read what I type for you.
1610
1611>I believe I am more correct than you.
1612Okay, you arrogant fuck.
1613
1614==================================================
1615
1616amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 15:27
1617
1618@TK
1619You're still quite out of touch with the argument.
1620
16211. What are you saying here? You seem to overestimate how dangerous coal is.
1622
16232. Without CO2, everything dies. It deserves the praise, same with oxygen, sunlight, fossil fuel, etc.
1624
16253. Source? It's funding all this alarmist crap, it's in their best interest everyone is afraid of cooking to death in the atmosphere.
1626
16274. A nuclear explosion can make hundreds of miles uninhabitable. A coal plant only makes the air have slightly more CO2 within a few hundred feet of the plant.
1628
16299. Those primitave societies were way less advanced before fossil fuels. The modern societies without fossil fuels remain tribal and unadvanced.
1630
163110. We also have alot from non endangered plants, not to mention artificial drugs. If a species is really needed we could save it using greenhouses or zoos.
1632
163311. wut. Are you suggesting the climate alarmist propaganda is unfeasible? Obviously not, because it is happening.
1634
1635@Vidkunssonn
1636I do read what you type. If you can prove to me that the theory that man causes climate change is more feasible than my view than i will accept the most plausible explanation.
1637
1638==================================================
1639
1640Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/12 15:36
1641
1642@uhmeighzheengdude
1643>I do read what you type.
1644Uh huh.
1645"Just stop. I don't care what you think about it."
1646
1647==================================================
1648
1649Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/12 17:12
1650
16511) You were the one who made that 5% figure.
1652
16532) Neopaganism aside, it's just a molecule that happened to be in abundance when plants first evolved. If sulfuric acid had been more common back then the proto-plants probably would have used that.
1654
16553) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_spinoff_technologies They're just geeks, not politicians. All of NASA's funding comes from the government, which you've already stated is "in on it", if their paycheck is guaranteed, why would they bother selling a hoax to the public instead of working on important stuff?
1656
16574) Meltdowns don't involve explosions, it's literally just when the fuel gets too hot and melts through it's containment.
1658
16599) I'm pretty sure it was telegraphs that did the most for general advancement for that era, combustion was nice but it didn't facilitate any research on it's own like letting people talk in near-real-time from opposite ends of the country.
1660
166110) Artificial drugs are made by studying the effects of natural drugs and then distilling them. There is literally nothing the pharmaceutical industry that wasn't inspired by the defenses of real plants and animals.
1662
166311) Nice rebuttal. Like wow I've never been so convinced of anything in my life.
1664
1665==================================================
1666
1667amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/12 18:49
1668
1669@TK
1670
16711. That was about the impurites in coal, not destroyed land.
1672
16732. Either way, it gives life to us today.
1674
16753. If they come out and say climate change is not manmade, they will lose their funding. It's part of their contract.
1676
16774. Chernobyl much? I've researched, and you were right about nuclear not being so dangerous. I do think it should be looked into, but until then, fossil fuels are the best option.
1678
16799. Fossil fuels made quick transport possible, which is necessary for a modern day society, whether its cars, planes, or busses.
1680
168110. So lets study plants we have alot of instead of plants with only 3 specimen left.
1682
168311. Finally convined someone partially
1684
1685@Vidkunssonn
1686https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfo_CDjFwx28cPiFVO9iKIxbrutD_5FtRHThWg2za8Ba-uw3Q/viewform
1687
1688==================================================
1689
1690Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/13 01:25
1691
1692>If they come out and say climate change is not manmade, they will lose their funding. It's part of their contract.
1693Oh my God, you ARE a dumbass.
1694
1695==================================================
1696
1697SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/13 03:02
1698
1699Are you serious right now we're still going on with this THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO DISCUSS I mean really it's idiotic to talk about something that has already been talked about solved It's
1700
1701==================================================
1702
1703amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/13 04:12
1704
1705@Sky
1706Nothing is ever settled. If somebody can prove that earth is banana shaped and provide evidence and explain how it is more plausible than the earth being an oblate spheroid, then what would happen? Surely, the idea of an oblate spheroid earth is settled science, right? Same with climate change.
1707
1708@Vidkunssonn
1709You're the dumbass
1710
1711==================================================
1712
1713hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/13 05:37
1714
1715Climate change is natural, but we're speeding it up ALOT. If you look at the average temperature for the last 20 thousand years, you can clearly notice that it speeds up alot once you hit the point where fossil fuels are heavily used. And, we're starting to run out of fossil fuels. Oh, and the chernobyl exclusion zone has an area of 1,004 square miles. The meltdown occurred because of a flawed reactor design operated with inadequately trained workers.
1716
1717==================================================
1718
1719Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/13 07:29
1720
1721@amazingdude
1722"Your comment may be true [ . . . ] I do know I'm right"
1723But you don't unless you've seen it for yourself and have enough evidence to make a reasonable unbiased conclusion. Multiple times you talk about events that have changed our entire perspective of the universe including possibilities of events that could change it (such as finding out the Earth is banana-shaped), so you understand that we don't truly know anything because it all could be found false at any moment. For example, how do you know for sure that *your* sources aren't manipulated in any way? Of course, if you have seen proof for yourself, conducted tests, etc., then I retract my statements. I don't know what you do in your free time.
1724
1725"a consensus doesn't prove anything"
1726Indeed. That's why I said it is *more likely* to be true because, on average, people have reasonable beliefs and aren't stupid. If you are right, then we all have no choice but to believe you and I, personally, would be perfectly fine with that because I always welcome new ideas to get as close to the truth as possible. Your beliefs are your beliefs and mine are mine, and I will respect them if they are what you truly believe (as in, if anyone says things with the intent to bring harm, I would try to stop that).
1727
1728==================================================
1729
1730amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/13 08:04
1731
1732@Hotdogeater
1733Wrong. 11,000 years ago there was a very sharp warming spike of 10*C. Talk about climate change! Nothing within the last 100 years is even visible. And we aren't even close to running out of fossil fuel.
1734https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/20kyr_fig1.jpg
1735
1736@Esigma
1737Why do you never log in?
1738
1739I saw it with my own eyes. On fox news. They brought in a scientist and an alarmist and the scientist won, hands down. How do YOU know that your sources arent bought out fraud? Nobodys source is reliable. I have analyzed data, reviewed sources, and came to my conclusion. Your beliefs are wrong and need to be changed to mine, which are correct.
1740
1741==================================================
1742
1743SkyPhantomhive			#T70KMa7R 2017/06/13 08:26
1744
1745All right. Well I'm just saying can't one of you set up a chat room and go over this or skype call or something? This is really not the place for this propaganda.
1746
1747==================================================
1748
1749hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/13 09:07
1750
1751If you look to the next 100 years, you would see a spike even bigger and steeper than that one 11000 years ago. Also, that spike was after a dip in global temperature, which was hardly recorded in Antartica. Oh and btw, why are you trying to force people to change to your beliefs. Nobodys beliefs need to change.
1752
1753==================================================
1754
1755Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/06/13 10:11
1756
1757@amazingdude
1758I will say only this. If you truly believe that climate change is solely beneficial and not at all problematic, and you're not just some troll that enjoys giggling when you get a reaction out of people on the internet, then fine, you may go against the better judgment of the vast majority of experts in the field of climate science and claim that global warming is nonexistent, or universally beneficial, or whatever other beliefs you may be smugly holding to your chest. But just know that the overwhelming evidence points out that you are, in fact, wrong. And I suggest you take a good wide look at all the peer-reviewed articles publicly available to you, and heed the findings of the many people that are much more intelligent than you and have spent much more time giving thought and research to this now well-defined phenomenon. But if you still refuse to listen to reason, then fine, continue to giggle at the reaction and comments you have elicited, but the rest of us would do well to look at the "Comments code of conduct" and ignore your inflammatory comments; for the die has been cast and the votes have been tallied: the winner of this argument is very clearly those who know climate change is, in fact, a significant problem to the future of this Earth. You have every right to sit in your isolated box and cover your ears, but as for the rest of the world, we progress without you.
1759
1760==================================================
1761
1762Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/13 10:52
1763
1764@amazingdude
1765I'm a dumbass because I've not convinced myself that the government pays companies to tell lies to the masses? Do not talk to me again about this.
1766
1767==================================================
1768
1769amazingdude
1770#iv2PucoH 2017/06/13 11:44
1771
1772@sky
1773lol making a video. good luck. post a link when your done. I'm not the one spewing propaganda, everyone else is.
1774
1775@Hotdogeater
1776Either way, the climate changed fast. If you think climate is gonna change that much, you are insane.
1777
1778@poofle
1779I've read many articles from both sides, and have concluded that global warming is natural and beneficial. All the "evidence" for manmade global warming is fake, incorrect, misleading, and unreliable. If humanity acts upon a false assumption, we'd have wasted all this time and energy for no gain. Trump was right to pull out of the agreement.
1780
1781@Vidkunssonn
1782Yeah, you are. You backed out of the argument. Once I defeat the rest, I'll have won the debate.
1783
1784==================================================
1785
1786Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/13 13:12
1787
1788@amazingdude
1789Do you even realize how full of shit you are? Telling people that NASA's evidence is fake and unreliable simply because the government gives them the money they use to do the experiments and collect the evidence? Do you realize how much of a paranoid degenerate you're making yourself seem like?
1790
1791>Once I defeat the rest
1792You've defeated nobody. Just because I got tired of your shit doesn't mean you defeated me.
1793>You backed out of the argument
1794I quit fueling your stupidity. I do my best to not argue with idiots and hypocrites over things they prove time and again to not fully understand. The only "evidence" you take into account when forming your opinions is the evidence that wasn't funded by the government because you're CONVINCED that the government forces EVERY company that does climate research that they fund to lie about the evidence they find. Do you realize how moronic that sounds?
1795
1796You tell me you don't like Alex Jones, but everything you say suggests you think exactly like him.
1797"Can't trust the government."
1798"The government pays these companies to lie."
1799"The government is out to get us, just you wait!"
1800That' exactly what you sound like.
1801
1802==================================================
1803
1804Reztak's				#FLVo5wE6 2017/06/13 13:22
1805
1806I never knew that this thing existed, And I regret it right now.
1807
1808==================================================
1809
1810Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/13 13:52
1811
1812To be honest, I'm partly in this because it makes the board super active. :D
1813
1814@amazingdude
1815What sources? I've spoken on the subject like twice and neither time have I cited anything because they were analytical on this debate, and didn't need sources.
1816And even if I did, I still just told you that I would have no idea if they were actually true. Don't act in self-defense if I'm not attacking you.
1817Also, you basically just said "Nobodys source is reliable. I have [ . . . ] reviewed sources [ . . . ] [My beliefs] are correct." You can't contradict yourself like that and still remain a credible member of the anti-climate change side. If you can agree without disagreeing, or disagree without agreeing, then your argument makes logical sense and I can think of you as someone with a valid argument for their side.
1818And I want to point out that Fox News is a source. Ergo, you do not know if it is true or how true it is, even if they were right about everything since it was started. And I haven't logged in because I'm lazy and haven't felt the need to.
1819
1820@Greywolf
1821You seriously don't think you're fueling him right now?
1822
1823==================================================
1824
1825Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/13 13:56
1826
1827https://pastebin.com/f5wvyrDx
1828
18299) Whatever, it's obsolete now.
1830 
183110) Not all organisms are created equal, imagine a world where Penicillium went extinct because the Romans discovered it's properties early and abused them until it didn't exist anymore. It sounds somewhat ridiculous but that's exactly what happened to Silphium.
1832 
183311) That was sarcasm. Circular reasoning like "It's happening because it's feasible because it's happening" isn't going to convince anyone.
1834
1835==================================================
1836
1837hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/14 04:25
1838
1839That spike roughly 11,000 years ago was after a sudden and still mostly unexplained drop in temperature around 1300 years prior. Also, if we dont do anything about the rate that the temperature is rising, it will reach 10C above the 1960-1990 average around 2130. Also, CO2 is not beneficial to us other than the fact that it is required for photosynthesis. At 10% concentrations in the air, it can cause convulsions, coma, and death. Not exactly fun.
1840
1841==================================================
1842
1843amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/14 07:00
1844
1845@Vidkunssonn
1846You say that like I'm a conspiracy theorist. I'm really not. I'm just skeptical of the mainstream belief.
1847
1848@Esigma
1849How did I contradict myself? I read my arguments carefully before I post them and check for self contradictions.
1850
1851@TK
1852Silphium was bound to go extinct already. It was retricted to a narrow area that was turning to desert. Even then, its uses have been replicated using modern drugs. We dont need it anymore. Yeah, its sad things go extinct, but shit happens.
1853
1854@Hotdogeater
1855You're a typical alarmist I see. At least you're sane. The temperature has flatlined since 1998. The medieval warm period was warmer than today, and the temperature rose at similar rates to today. Your predictions are simply not true. Besides, there isnt enough carbon on earth to bring CO2 to 10%. Higher CO2 levels are indirectly beneficial to us. More CO2 = more plants. More plants = more food. The earth has gotten noticbly greener due to increased CO2 emissions, combined with a natural warming in the climate, providing relief to many plants and animals after coming out of the little ice age.
1856
1857==================================================
1858
1859Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/14 07:28
1860
1861https://pastebin.com/KnBGgRZF
1862
1863Let's try this again:
1864 
18651) Yes, impurities like CO, a gas that can kill a human being in three minutes provided it takes up 1% of the air. ~5% of it constantly emitted in close proximity to population centers.
1866 
18673) They already did the work though. Even if there were some nondisclosure agreement, those geeks've got no reason to keep harping on it unless they deemed GCC just important as robots and water purifiers.
1868 
1869I think you missed the point of the Silphium example. I'm saying if other useful plants go extinct before we find out what their properties are, it represents a net loss in human potential. You can't replicate the effects of a natural drug if you don't know how the drug works- let alone that it existed in the place.
1870
1871==================================================
1872
1873Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/14 12:00
1874
1875@amazingdude
1876You say that nobody's sources, including your own, are reliable enough to be considered factual. But then you say that you reached conclusions based on sources that you reviewed (not totally, but clearly it took up a large enough chunk that you felt you had to mention it), and because of those conclusions you say that my beliefs are wrong while yours are right. Based on the logic of the first sentence, how can you be so sure that your sources are correct?
1877If this isn't a contradiction, please explain.
1878
1879@TK
1880I got nothing.
1881
1882==================================================
1883
1884Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/14 13:39
1885
1886@amazingdude
1887I said it because you sound like a nut not so different from Alex Jones.
1888
1889==================================================
1890
1891hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/15 06:01
1892
1893Yeah, sure, because the last few years being the warmest on record is definitely a flatline. (sarcasm, which you seem to have an inability to detect)
1894Also, CO2 only has to be at 1% in the atmosphere to cause mild respiratory stimulation.
1895
1896The medieval warm period was a temperature anomaly of +0.11C, while the 2004 temperature anomaly was +0.46C. It could have been caused by changes to ocean circulation, which are very capable of causing short term climate change. Globally, it fell below todays average global temperature, but it was warmer than todays average global temperature in some regions.
1897
1898==================================================
1899
1900amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/15 06:07
1901
1902@TK
19031. People havent been dying of CO by just walking outside. It is insignificant as a byproduct of coal.
1904
19052. We dont need plants to create drugs. We can research the effects of chemicals, and apply those chemicals to cure the illness.
1906
19073. AGW is deemed just as important to them. Thats how they get their funding.
1908
1909@Esigma
1910Your sources are scientifically inaccurate. Mine are not.
1911
1912@Vidkunssonn
1913You dont sound any better, running around screaming the ice is melting and were gonna flood and burn to death. Calm down. Climate change is good.
1914
1915==================================================
1916
1917Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/15 06:47
1918
1919@amazingdude
1920If climate change is beneficial to humanity, what happens to the people in Bangladesh? The people living on Pacific islands? The people in sub-Saharan Africa? What happened to sea level rise and flooding?
1921
1922==================================================
1923
1924hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/15 07:08
1925
1926What about the maldives? They're gonna be gone in probably a decade or two
1927
1928==================================================
1929
1930Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/15 08:09
1931
19321) Tell that to China, where everyone either lives in a rural area or is forced by the hydrocarbon-based smog to constantly wear a mask while outside.
1933
19342) I most cases, plants are where we get the chemicals to study. Inorganic chemistry isn't nearly as diverse as organic chemistry is, so there's more and faster possible discoveries with the latter.
1935
19363) I'm still waiting on that Realpolitik explanation, preferably one that doesn't boil down to "It's obviously happening because it's happening".
1937
1938==================================================
1939
1940Sigma					#iWOBESYY 2017/06/15 13:19
1941
1942@amazingdude
1943But how do you *know* your sources are scientifically accurate? You've said several times that a generally-accepted fact of the universe could change all of a sudden based on new evidence.
1944
1945==================================================
1946
1947amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/15 13:21
1948
1949@T&W, hotdogeater
1950Sea levels have been rising at the same rate they have for the past 5000 years. Sea levels rose even faster once the north american and eurasian ice sheets melted off 15,000 years ago. While some areas of the world may be getting too hot, like Africa and south Asia, a much larger area is becoming more habitable, like siberia and Canada. You know why the US has 300 million people while canada only has 36 million? Most of Canada is too cold. Why is siberia virtually uninhabited? It's too cold. Warming would be great for those regions. Worst case scenario we relocate people from Africa and south Asia into now-habitable areas further north. More land will become habitable due to climate change than uninhabitable.
1951
1952@TK
19531. The vast majority of Chinese urban population does not need an air mask. Only in the most extreme areas on heavy days do people need masks. This is an example of media manipulation.
1954
19552. You seem to be exaggerating the extinction rate. Extinction rates right now are the same they have been for thousands of years. While it may appear that everything seems to be dying, they always have been, and always will. It's nature.
1956
19573. That's just how they get their funding. Its all there is to it.
1958
1959==================================================
1960
1961Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/15 13:23
1962
1963@amazingdude
1964You clearly haven't read a single word I've typed.
1965https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=fc27hf58c1
1966
1967"You are a fool for believing we aren't detrimental to the planet in one way or another, but you're a fool even more so for assuming I believe we're gonna destroy it. Not even God will destroy this planet before Judgement Day."
1968Learn to fucking read.
1969
1970==================================================
1971
1972Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/15 16:37
1973
1974@amazingdude
1975No, media manipulation does not come into play in this. China has a serious problem with land, air and water pollution. Any large, industrialising country does. Saying that they even need to wear a mask itself is a marker suggesting how bad the problem can be.
1976
1977Firstly, graph please??? You realise that the sea level does not increase evenly everywhere. Isostatic realignment, thermal expansion of water and the rate of erosion all come into play. The sea level may not be physically rising, the land may be 'retreating' instead. Siberia will not be 'colonised'; your suggestion is economically, socially, physically and geographically unfeasible. Areas in sub-Saharan Africa will not be ruined by rampant warming, but by unpredictable rainfall and drought, disrupting agriculture and the economy. Bangladesh has a problem not just with the sea, but with increased river discharge. The world is complex. You can't just 'take a piece' and compensate for it somewhere else. 
1978
1979==================================================
1980
1981Torture King
1982#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/15 18:02
1983
1984https://pastebin.com/479WmuEU
1985
19861) Covered by T&W
1987 
19882) Didn't we already cover that we have no way of knowing that? Population science is only recently been conducted on the wild, all the data we have for it is what was collected after the invention of DDT.
1989 
19903) No. Circular reasoning is never an acceptable answer.
1991 
1992Do you not realize what is implied by the existence of a conspiracy? It means that 2 or more people with sufficient resources are cynical enough to believe that a Machiavellian approach to internal politics is the only logical way for a nation to prosper.
1993 
1994Machiavellianism is a subsection of the Realist political philosophy, which itself says that nations do whatever they want so long as nothing stops them. This opposed to the Liberalist, Radicalist, and Constructivist philosophies- the ideas that nations engage in diplomacy because the people don't like war, that the upper classes do everything that they do to oppress the lower classes, and that nations get their agendas from the head of state's agendas so any behavior will seem inconsistent between through the generations.
1995 
1996Anyway, that's a very brief summary of how international politics work. Realist philosophy in particular is nothing if not pragmatic, so this mysterious GCC conspiracy needs to have rational reasons for going to so much effort- it's not the sort of thing people engage in for giggles, if the project starts costing more than what they're getting out of it then an actual conspiracy would drop the tactic like a hot iron and try something else. You've been suggesting that people sorting their trash by material and the nation's industries being crippled by pointlessly increased spending is a good reason to blow everything they have. Give a good reason why, you've had 3 weeks to do so.
1997
1998==================================================
1999
2000herecomesmichael		#qVSCeJzD 2017/06/17 00:49
2001
2002What's with this argument with @amazingdude? I can't be bothered to read the whole thing, because it seems to go on and on forever.
2003
2004==================================================
2005
2006Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/17 04:48
2007
2008He showed up about 3 weeks ago claiming the coal and oil industries were being unfairly persecuted and that climate change was a hoax/not manmade/somehow beneficial. He didn't talk very much before but seemed fairly intelligent for his age in previous discussions, I'd still say that he's fairly intelligent but might have issues with critical thinking and/or acceptable risk assessment- both of which are perfectly normal for someone younger than 20.
2009
2010==================================================
2011
2012amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/17 06:08
2013
2014@Vidkunssonn
2015I did read it and already responded to that post
2016
2017@T&W
2018China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media. Lol, your rising sea level analogy broke down and you think the land breaks off like ice bergs and rots away? Flooding land to the sea? LOL!!! Colonizing Siberia is very practical. We colonized the Americas, Australia, many islands, and parts of Asia and Africa. Damn right we can colonize siberia.
2019
2020@TK
2021I think we should bring back DDT, it will help with insect problems. The enviornment will recover much faster than you think. The reason it failed was because it was banned before it could exterminate everything, so it all came back. Yeah, we have no way of knowing, so why be so pessimistic about it, saying we're killing everything? I come here every few months. 
2022
2023I was more active 3-4 years ago. Yall should check out the powder toy, its much better (and not HTML5). We've been arguing for a month now. Also, I'm 25.
2024
2025@Herecomesmichael
2026Read it. It will change your whole perspective on climate change.
2027
2028==================================================
2029
2030Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/17 06:31
2031
2032@amazingdude
2033I live in China. I have travelled all over China. China has a serious problem with pollution. End of.
2034
2035Land does indeed break off cliffs by waves and storm action. This material is deposited and dispersed in other places along the coast. Of course, if you had any understanding of coastal and geological processes, you'd know exactly what I am talking about. Mudflows, rockslides, rotational slip. Yes, land literally breaks off the cliff and is washed away during rotational slipping.
2036
2037Are you actually serious about Siberia??? Are you really going to persuade all 200 million people living in the region of the Ganges-Brahmaputra Delta to emigrate to some remote place in Russia? Do you even think the Russians would consider accepting these people? How much would it cost to basically build a whole new country up in Siberia to facilitate 200 million people. We have standards now. Colonists in the Americas and Africa had a completely different set of objectives and standards. If you think sending 200 million people to Siberia is even remotely feasible, I cannot take you seriously anymore. 
2038
2039==================================================
2040
2041Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/17 07:11
2042
2043@amazingdude
2044Just because you responded doesn't mean you actually read what I said and comprehended it completely. I've clearly said that I don't think humans will destroy the world, and you tell me that I'm "running around screaming the ice is melting and were gonna flood and burn to death." NOT ONE PERSON in this discussion is doing that.
2045
2046>Colonizing Siberia is very practical. We colonized the Americas, Australia, many islands, and parts of Asia and Africa.
2047The Americas, Australia, and parts of Asia and Africa aren't as fucking cold as Siberia is. The reason 13.1 million square kilometres has only 40 million people is because most of it is too damn cold and dangerous to inhabit. Canada is the same way: 90% of the population lives on 12% of the land because of how damn cold the other 88% of it is, and the people that DO live in that 88% are some of the toughest people on this planet.
2048
2049==================================================
2050
2051amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/17 08:29
2052
2053@T&W
2054Yes, land breaks away slowly. How would human activity affect that?
2055
2056@T&W and Vidkunssonn
2057Yes, I'm serious about colonizing Siberia. Maybe not Siberia, but there's lots of still habitable non-overcrowded areas that aren't arctic wasteland. We should relocate people who are in flood zones to less-floody areas. Why should we fight nature? We cant change the global climate.
2058
2059==================================================
2060
2061Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/17 17:24
2062
2063>We cant change the global climate.
2064Your entire argument has been that we're benefiting the planet by adding more CO2 to the air. That statement goes against EVERYTHING you've said up to this point.
2065
2066==================================================
2067
2068amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/17 18:30
2069
2070@Vidkunssonn
2071Adding CO2 to the air is not changing the climate. It's more like a fertillizer.
2072
2073==================================================
2074
2075Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/17 19:49
2076
2077https://pastebin.com/nSFf2WUu
2078
2079You want to use DDT to exterminate everything? You realize exterminating *everything* was why that stuff was banned in the first place? We were poisoning our crops so that pests would die after eating it, and true in the short term that was a boon for our food production. But the history you might have skipped over was that DDT is both hydrophobic and lipophilic and doesn't dissolve in water like most pesticides while readily collecting in the fat tissue of animals. Once applied it leaches into the soil and then collects as sediment in rivers, inflicting cancer on anything that comes into contact with it until ~15 years later when the toxin finally reaches the end of it's half-life.
2080
2081==================================================
2082
2083Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/17 22:41
2084
2085@Amazingdude
2086Land does not break away slowly. The land can retreat as fast as 1-2 metres a year in some places. Downdrift sediment starvation caused by man-made barriers or activities increases the vulnerability of cliff faces to erosion, particularly in areas where the shore is comprised primarily of unconsolidated material. Humans building on and closer to the cliff adds additional weight, encouraging slip planes to form. The paving of roads and surfaces hinders the even drainage of the ground, which means water is absorbed unevenly by the soil. This weighs areas of the cliff down and acts as a lubricant, encouraging slippage.
2087
2088How do you plan to colonise barren and uninhabitable areas? You literally need to build everything that people need, from scratch. Will any country's government be willing to accept millions of people from halfway across the globe? How will you convince hundreds of millions of people to abandon their homes, their country and their way of life? How are you going to move them all? What you plan is impossible. 
2089
2090==================================================
2091
2092amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/18 06:40
2093
2094@TK
2095Again, exaggerated risks. The benefits of DDT outweigh the risks. DDT is harmless to humans, but it kills insects that eat our crops. Why not use it?
2096
2097@T&W
2098The rate humans are causing land to retreat is comparable to the impact on global climate: Almost unmeasurable. Expanding urban areas that are surrounded by empty space. That way, you have something to build off of. If people dont move, wait until they start flooding. Instead of fighting nature, we should adapt to it.
2099
2100==================================================
2101
2102Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/18 09:53
2103
2104https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane#Human_health
2105"Harmless"
2106
2107==================================================
2108
2109amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/18 10:16
2110
2111@TK
2112Of course bathing in DDT isnt gonna be good for you, but a little bit in the food is no harm.
2113
2114==================================================
2115
2116Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/18 10:56
2117
2118Except the part where all those little bits build up in your fat and give you cancer. Mountains are made of the smallest pebbles.
2119
2120==================================================
2121
2122tauss					#AHnQiTFf 2017/06/18 11:45
2123
2124Fascinating argument
2125
2126==================================================
2127
2128amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/18 13:11
2129
2130@TK
2131Thats only with significant exposure
2132
2133==================================================
2134
2135Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/18 21:03
2136
2137@amazingdude
2138Bio-accumulation, anyone? Human activity is causing the land to retreat in places. Slight retreat will build up over the decades and centuries. This must be rectified. For you colonisation plan, let's do this step by step.
2139
21401. Build outwards from existing areas to accommodate more people. Widen roads and railways, infrastructure, sewage, clean water. Massive disruption to current settlements and day-to-day operations, construction takes years, massive economic cost on the host country.
2141
21422. Convince the host country(ies) to accept 150 million Bangladeshis. People from a completely different culture, completely different language and way of life. Convince them to provide adequate healthcare, services and education for the population of a still-developing country. Again, massive economic disruption, with social problems thrown into the mix.
2143
21443. Convince the Bangladeshis to move halfway across the world to some random remote place, destroying their communities, businesses, culture and way of life, instead of trying to solve the flooding problem back home.
2145
21464. Actually find the money and the transport to move 150 million people and their possessions halfway across the world. You will need to at least subsidise this cost, especially if they are poor and unwilling to move.
2147
2148This speaks for itself. I'm not sure why I even wrote this considering how flawed your plan is. 
2149
2150==================================================
2151
2152Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/19 01:35
2153
2154You mean like the significant exposure of eating contaminated food at every meal? Maybe you're just underestimating how often people need to eat and/or how much pesticides would need to be used to eradicate a farm pest. I'll reiterate, you seem reasonably intelligent, but you can't seem to back it up with the critical thinking and risk-assessment abilities necessary to link all the things you're aware of into sensible plans that would work in complex environments.
2155
2156==================================================
2157
2158amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/19 04:00
2159
2160@T&W
2161Human activity does not cause land retreat. That is honestly the dumbest thing I've ever seen. It is quite difficult, yes, but would trying to fight the climate be easier? Should we just leave them to die instead? Should we put a shade in front of the earth to block the sun? Should we do your plan try to restrict fossil fuel use, even though it does not affect the climate? That is much more unfeasible than moving millions of people. Come up with a better idea to fight natural climate change.
2162
2163@TK
2164Yes, we are eating the toxins, then we shit it out the next day before it does any harm. What goes in comes back out. If you eat pure DDT, yes, its dangerous, but a bit in your food is no threat.
2165
2166==================================================
2167
2168Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/19 08:21
2169
2170That's probably what the Romans said about using lead as a wine sweetener.
2171
2172==================================================
2173
2174Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/19 11:33
2175
2176@amazingdude
2177No, you don't just simply digest and dispose of DDT after you consume it. It stores up in your body fat and very slowly breaks itself down, a process that could end up taking years if you eat more than one meal a week.
2178
2179https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane#Human_health
2180Spiders are a better pesticide than DDT because spiders don't kill humans along with the bugs they're assigned to kill.
2181
2182==================================================
2183
2184amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/19 12:33
2185
2186@TK
2187Lead accumulates in blood, DDT does not
2188
2189@Vidkunssonn
2190Anti-DDT propaganda. Also, are you suggesting that we release tons of spiders into the fields to eat insects? Dont you think they will eat our food?
2191
2192==================================================
2193
2194Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/19 14:22
2195
2196Nope, just the fat. But hey, it's not like an average healthy human is between 10 and 20% of that stuff. And it's certainly not like those completely hypothetical fat stores are intimately linked to the digestive system where DDT would just harmlessly pass through with no effect. Nope, probably nothing to worry about.
2197
2198Also spiders are carnivores. They'll round out their diet with as much as 25% pollen during slow periods with little prey, but they don't have any interest in fruits or vegetables.
2199
2200==================================================
2201
2202Vidkunssonn	#6gkHelVa 2017/06/19 15:05
2203
2204@amazingdude
2205I've lost all respect for you just now, And in case you can't tell, which I really doubt you could, TK's 14:22 comment is purely sarcasm.
2206
2207==================================================
2208
2209shroomkitty				#G7eDnRvm 2017/06/20 03:16
2210
2211When did this turn into a geopolitical and climate discussion, holy damn.
2212
2213==================================================
2214
2215Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/20 05:17
2216
2217@Amazingdude
2218I'm afraid that if you cannot logically 'debunk' what I said in the 'causes of land retreat' comment with an equal amount of knowledge of physical geography, my point stands.
2219
2220Your plan to somehow relocate 150 million people is not 'difficult', it's impossible, unless you prove otherwise. What is possible however, is helping people to cope with the effects of climate change and flooding. In the case of Bangladesh, this would involve improving and relocating buildings, the construction of sea defenses. People will receive more education about the dangers of flooding and what they can do to avoid affected areas and lessen the damage. Emergency and services can be improved to respond faster and operate at a higher skill and technology level. 
2221
2222==================================================
2223
2224Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/20 06:14
2225
2226@Dark Doctor: Don't kid anyone about that, least not yourself. The PG comment boards haven't been PG related for several years because there's simply nothing original, on-topic, and interesting enough to talk about after all that time. If that annoys you, you might want to find a different forum.
2227
2228==================================================
2229
2230amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/21 00:54
2231
2232@TK
2233You're saying DDT gets absorbed into the fat? Some might, but the rest just gets shit back out. 
2234
2235@Vidkunssonn
2236You lost the argument weeks ago. Get over it.
2237
2238@Shroomkitty
2239When I exposed the leftist alarmist lie that is manmade climate change.
2240
2241@T&W
2242That's honestly not a bad idea. It's a temporary solution, however, and our ultimate goal would be to relocate people away from danger zones.
2243
2244==================================================
2245
2246Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/21 03:10
2247
2248Yeah, some gets absorbed for every meal, and then it stays in the body for ~15 years. $.03 isn't very much money, but if you get $.03 every day for 15 years you'll have $164.25, which is a fair amount that I imagine most people would emphatically NOT want to be converted into carcinogens embedded in their fat stores.
2249
2250==================================================
2251
2252Reztak's				#FLVo5wE6 2017/06/21 05:57
2253
2254@amazingdude
2255Saying that @vidkunssonn lost the argument is just stupid. That's like thinking you've won a roasting contest by saying "you're stupid and you should die" before the other person has a chance to "diss" you. 
2256
2257==================================================
2258
2259amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/21 08:44
2260
2261@TK
2262Even if DDT gets stored in fat, it'll be broken down and then shat out when the fat is burned for energy.
2263
2264@Vidkunssonn
2265Hah, I'm delusional. Everybody else on here is.
2266
2267@Reztak
2268... Because he did lose the argument?
2269
2270==================================================
2271
2272Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/21 10:25
2273
2274You realize that's starvation, right? A healthy human body needs to 10-20% fat otherwise they're basically dying. Fat is always the last thing to be digested.
2275Also you don't win a debate until the other side can't logically counter you anymore, Vidkunssonn still has some good points- and ignoring them makes you the loser. Fat is always the last thing to be digested while recovery is still possible outside of a hospital. Technically the body will still be able to cannibalize itself just fine once there's no fat, but getting back to health after that requires an organ transplant.
2276
2277Also I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me delusional, especially since you're the one with the conspiracy theory whose supposed goals even even you can't make sense of enough to give a bare-bones explanation of despite having enough proof to be adamant that they exist.
2278
2279==================================================
2280
2281Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/21 20:21
2282
2283*Destroying people in argument*
2284*Refuses to address or even counter challenges and points made by opponents* 
2285
2286==================================================
2287
2288amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/22 05:22
2289
2290@TK
2291So, the fat just sits there your whole life then? OK, then the DDT should just sit there inside it and be harmless then.
2292
2293@T&W
2294You talkng about yourself?
2295
2296==================================================
2297
2298Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/22 05:49
2299
2300@amazingdude
2301Yes, I am the one who failed to counter the point on the subject of China. I failed to address the process of bioaccumulation, and failed to provide any evidence to support my argument that humans had no impact on the hydraulic erosion of land. 
2302
2303==================================================
2304
2305Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/22 06:07
2306
2307Just because it's not being used for nutrition doesn't mean it isn't still reactive to toxic chemicals being embedded in it. Chemistry is still a thing whether you're actively thinking about it or not. Why the hell do you have so many closed-system ideas about so many subjects?
2308
2309==================================================
2310
2311Reztak's				#FLVo5wE6 2017/06/22 14:08
2312
2313@amazingdude
2314I believe that you don't understand the concept of sarcasm, so I'll explain what I believe @T&W meant. Address every "I" in @T&W's comment as yourself, and correct any grammar mistakes as you replace the "I"s' with "amazingdude".
2315
2316==================================================
2317
2318amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/23 13:09
2319
2320@T&W
2321That is correct. You cant argue to save your life.
2322
2323@TK
2324I am open minded, its just hard to change your mind when everything presented to you is garbage. Believe DDT is a humankiller, I will believe that it is beneficial for us.
2325
2326@Reztak
2327I do understand sarcasm.
2328
2329==================================================
2330
2331Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/23 13:23
2332
2333I dare you to buy a 2 liter of DDT (or at whatever measurement they're sold as) and drink it like soda. Tell me how "beneficial" it is afterwards.
2334
2335==================================================
2336
2337Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/23 13:41
2338
2339Belief doesn't grant magical powers. I'm seriously concerned for your safety.
2340
2341==================================================
2342
2343Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/24 00:48
2344
2345You say I cannot argue, and that you do understand sarcasm, but you fail to make any attempt to put forward a proper point. What's wrong with you?
2346
2347==================================================
2348
2349amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/24 03:04
2350
2351@Vidkunssonn
2352Thats enough DDT to hurt you. You dont understand that a little DDT is not bad, like in food, but alot, like drinking it straight, is bad.
2353
2354@TK
2355Why is my safety at risk?
2356
2357@T&W
2358Nothing.
2359
2360==================================================
2361
2362COMMENT BOT				#CYDOyoro 2017/06/24 03:37
2363
2364@amazingdude
2365this turn into a hoaxnot manmadesomehow beneficial it from danger zones. 
2366
2367==================================================
2368
2369Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/24 04:38
2370
2371@COMMENT BOT
2372Don't turn this into a YouTube comment section.
2373
2374@amazingdude
2375Yes, but consuming that tiny amount, the one you claim to be "safe", 3 times a day will eventually build up to become that large amount, the one you're claiming to be "bad". You're failing to understand that DDT is not digestible. It will not just pass right through your body. Get that stupid idea out of your head.
2376
2377==================================================
2378
2379Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/06/24 04:43
2380
2381A normal, functioning human should be able to respond to my arguments. You haven't bothered, or are unable to do so. So tell me, are you able to find any of your home-grown explanations, youtube videos or alternative science articles 'debunking' the claim that human activity is capable of accelerating the process of erosion and mass movement? Or bioaccumulation? Or China's problem with pollution?
2382
2383==================================================
2384
2385amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/24 04:45
2386
2387@Vidkunssonn
2388If you cant digest it then that means it passes right through and out your ass. We cant digest fiber, yet it doesnt build up in our bodies. We cant digest certain food coloring, yet we don't turn rainbow. Instead, our shit turns green. While a small amount may be absorbed, you'd need to consume alot of DDT for that to happen enough to be harmful.
2389
2390@T&W
2391You have not provided any proof either.
2392
2393==================================================
2394
2395COMMENT BOT				#CYDOyoro 2017/06/24 05:16
2396
2397@amazingdude
2398i cannot argue and sir unoif you get fat is always the construction of if you literally need to respond to provide any countrys government be able to make any attempt to be able to be able to prevent it then that would be able to link all the last thing to counter challenges and uninhabitable areas you plan to move them all the hell do you replace the hydraulic erosion of life how will you realize thats starvation right through and sir unoif you beat all that tiny amount may be funny isnt gonna be digested .
2399
2400==================================================
2401
2402Tyne and wear			5GBDuOyX 2017/06/24 05:18
2403
2404I did produce evidence, in the form of a theoretical analysis of cliff collapse. If you require physical evidence, try looking at Barton-on-Sea or Hurst Castle Spit. For the issue of pollution in China, you could have easily challenged what I said, for obvious reasons, even if you didn't use any facts or statistics. Bioaccumulation itself is proof of the dangers of DDT usage. It is a well known biological process but for some reason, you decided not to respond. If you had produced convincing material for your rebuttal, instead of single-word and single-sentence denials, you would be in a tactically advantageous in this debate. 
2405
2406==================================================
2407
2408Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/24 10:41
2409
2410Comment Bot is something Scy created that takes selected words from previous comments and structures a sentence from them at random. Currently, it cannot be communicated with because the quality of these sentences are not comprehensible.
2411
2412@amazingdude
2413Then explain how when mercury and lead are consumed, neither of them pass right through the body and are shat. The same thing applies to DDT. Just because other things, like food coloring, don't stay in your body even though they can't be digested, doesn't mean EVERYTHING that can't be digested doesn't stay in your body.
2414
2415==================================================
2416
2417Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/24 11:34
2418
2419Because despite having the resources of a 20-something, you've made it rather clear that your risk-assessment ability is a slightly below average for a teenager. There's lots of ways to accidentally kill or maim yourself with household supplies if you just straight up disbelieve decades-old proven science or fail to link basic chemistry facts together.
2420
2421==================================================
2422
2423Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/06/24 12:25
2424
2425I just love how an argument on the CBs has several sophisticated points from both sides and then COMMENT BOT says something like that. XD It's trying to be one of us!
2426
2427==================================================
2428
2429amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/26 13:01
2430
2431https://pastebin.com/gBH9dUbK
2432
2433Sorry for the delay.
2434 
2435@T&W
2436Human activity or global warming has nothing to do with cliff collapse. Chinese pollution is exaggerated heavily by the media. You cant debunk anything I say because I am correct.
2437 
2438@Vidkunssonn
2439Hg and Pb both get absorbed into the blood, unlike DDT, which either passes straight thru and you shit it out, or sits in your fat doing nothing.
2440 
2441@TK
2442DDT being non toxic IS decade old knowledge, backed up by chemistry.
2443
2444==================================================
2445
2446Huh/					#W2kFFhkW 2017/06/26 14:02
2447
2448What are you talking about "Chinese pollution in the media"? Lately, all the media on Chinese pollution has been good-- about how they are investing millions-- billions?, into clean energy. 
2449
2450==================================================
2451
2452Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/26 18:28
2453
2454DDT is a known carcinogen due to it's radioactivity and lipophilia, carcinogens don't work the same way as other toxins because they don't have to directly kill cells so much as they damage affected DNA until the cells can't terminate themselves- forming a tumor.
2455
2456Also when it comes to dissolving anything- whether it's drink mix or an entire coastline, how warm much heat is in the system matters a lot. So GCC would in fact contribute to erosion, just because it means the ocean is warmer.
2457
2458==================================================
2459
2460Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/26 23:44
2461
2462@amazingdude
2463That has no impact on what I said. As you say, if it can't be digested, then it just passes right through and is shat. I gave 2 examples besides DDT that are not digestible, and you then supported my statement that they don't just pass right through. And you don't ever shit out any DDT you eat. Your intestines are 11 miles long so that that never happens.
2464
2465==================================================
2466
2467Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/27 03:09
2468
2469@amazingdude
2470Until you come up with some satisfactory evidence at or above the level I have presented, your point holds no validity. You have pretty much lost the cliff collapse argument. You haven't even described the processes that you think cause cliff collapse.
2471
2472Likewise, you have brought no supporting material for any of the arguments you have made concerning China. China has a serious problem with pollution, regardless of what western media says. Heck, I don't even need western media, all I have to do is go outside on a walk to see the full extent of the pollution at hand. 
2473
2474==================================================
2475
2476hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/27 13:44
2477
2478The intestines are 25 feet long (both small and large combined) but either way, DDT is known to remain in fat.
2479
2480==================================================
2481
2482amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/27 17:09
2483
2484@huh
2485Those pics where you cant see 3 inches and everything is gray fog.
2486
2487@TK
2488Oh look, land erodes 0.00002% faster! You may wrongly believe DDT causes cancer just by sitting around, but just know the science is against you.
2489
2490@T&W
2491I won the argument, hands down. You're just butthurt you lost.
2492
2493@Vidkunssonn
2494What are you saying... And the intestines are not 11 miles long. You just discredited everything you said.
2495
2496==================================================
2497
2498Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/27 22:14
2499
2500Ahh yes. The "science" that you refuse to cite for any reason because mainstream research can't be trusted because the entire world has been bribed by a shadowy organization. I know this well.
2501Any update on that conspiracy's supposed game-plan btw? It's been over a month since I first asked about it, surely you've put together something.
2502
2503==================================================
2504
2505Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/28 01:43
2506
2507@amazingdude
2508Comsidering that I was the only person making legitimate, logical points backed by evidence, firsthand experience and real-world examples, I do not see why you even call it an argument. 
2509
2510==================================================
2511
2512amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/28 03:08
2513
2514@TK
2515Not the entire world, just the top scientists and journal publishers. No journal will get published for not promoting manmade climate change, because they simply wont allow it. Then the public buys into ther load of bullshit.
2516
2517@T&W
2518You're just butthurt you lost and arent as smart as me.
2519
2520==================================================
2521
2522Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/28 05:15
2523
2524I'm seriously doubting you're 25 years old. You're acting like a 12-year-old CoD player saying things like "you're butthurt" and "I'm smarter than you". The most intelligent thing you've ever said since you started this shit is that mercury and lead are absorbed into the blood when consumed, and that's also the only intelligent thing you've said since you started this shit.
2525
2526==================================================
2527
2528hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/28 07:19
2529
2530Amazing, nobody has lost the argument, although according to your definition of it, you've lost several times. You have no sources backing up what you're saying, even though your opposition has asked several times. Where are your sources?
2531
2532==================================================
2533
2534skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/28 08:38
2535
2536"Amazing"dude's idea of what it means to win an argument is to be so evasive and obnoxious that no one wants to argue with you anymore.
2537I'd love to see him take that on the academic circuit.
2538
2539==================================================
2540
2541Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/28 11:04
2542
2543Okay, but like, why? What are they getting out of it? Don't say something generic like "power", "money" or "control" because you're talking about someone who's already capable of bribing the upper echelons of society so they'd need plenty of both just to get started. What little of the plan you have outlined appears to be:
2544
2545Step 1: Be rich and influential
2546
2547Step 2: Convince entire world to sort their waste by material and demand that major industries cut their productivity by at least half if not be destroyed altogether.
2548
2549Step 3: ???
2550
2551Step 4: PROFIT!
2552
2553I hope you can see the problem I have with your entire position now that somebody's bothered to write it out.
2554
2555==================================================
2556
2557Fjen					#VCI9OTDw 2017/06/28 11:06
2558
2559amazing dude
2560i have been looking into your point of view and i have found it very interesting and much more convincing and believable than the generally accepted view of human activity = bad. i apologize for being so harsh on you. your sources have really changed the way i look at science and the media. you were right all along: man made global warming is bullpoop. i must admit, it was hard to accept the fact that i have been lied to all my life, but with an open mind, i learned to accept that you can't just blindly trust whatever people tell you. thank you for showing the way of climate skepticism, and giving me the opportunity to expand my point of view by taking climate skepticism into my heart. please do not believe the sacks of hot air on this board. i strongly urge you all to really look into amazing dude's sources.
2561
2562==================================================
2563
2564Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/28 11:12
2565
2566Wait. Don't tell me...
2567You're one of *those* conspiracy theorists aren't you?
2568
2569==================================================
2570
2571amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/28 12:59
2572
2573@Vidkunssonn
2574I am 25, want proof? Keep calling me stupid then, its not gonna make you any more credible.
2575
2576@Hotdogeater
2577Umm, you all lost?
2578
2579@Skyk
2580No, it's to argue your point and prove evidence to the point the opponent cannot dispute it. I've WON multiple times.
2581
2582@TK
2583Umm, what is the illuminati?
2584
2585@Fjen
2586Aren't you the same person who called me a fox sheep? I can't believe you have completely flipped in only 2 weeks. If you are serious, it goes to show the power of alternative science.
2587
2588==================================================
2589
2590wot						#n0cGJnYm 2017/06/28 13:37
2591
2592For a 25 year old you sure do post on /r/teenagers a lot...
2593
2594==================================================
2595
2596hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/06/29 00:13
2597
2598The problem with your claim of winning is... you aren't backing up your evidence and ignoring sources that dont fit your point of view.
2599
2600==================================================
2601
2602Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/29 01:49
2603
2604Don't even pretend like you're more credible than I am. I'm not the one running around telling everybody the government's a bunch of lying hypocrites scaring us and telling us we're killing ourselves "just to get money". You're a fool to actually believe that you won. This is how I see this situation:
2605
2606A little kid and a big kid get into a fight.
2607The big kid punches the little kid in the stomach, and the little kid falls to the ground.
2608The little kid stands back up and keeps trying to fight, despite the fact he's too hurt to harm the big kid in the slightest.
2609The big kid can tell the little kid can't win the fight, so out of mercy, he walks away.
2610Later, the little kid claims to everyone that he won the fight because the big kid "gave up".
2611
2612In this story, you are the little kid. We didn't "give up", we got tired of your foolishness and decided that we've had enough of it. That's not admitting defeat, that's showing mercy.
2613
2614==================================================
2615
2616Scythertom				#3Adfqt77 2017/06/29 02:16
2617
2618Are you guys STILL arguing here ;_;
2619
2620==================================================
2621
2622Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/29 02:47
2623
2624@amazingdude
2625You believe you have won a debate despite making the fewest credible points out of all us. You are now entitled to proclaim yourself with the title: the master of debating. 
2626
2627==================================================
2628
2629klamo					#f6R3Pvaf 2017/06/29 03:32
2630
2631Don't worry, killa-byte {amazingdude} is just a dumb teenager acting like he's 25
2632
2633==================================================
2634
2635SkyPhantomhive			#qRyKW7MC 2017/06/29 07:52
2636
2637uh this argument is still a thing?
2638
2639I'm not dead....Although I shall not be here for three weeks due to the fact i'm going to Florida to study NASA. 
2640
2641==================================================
2642
2643mazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/29 11:03
2644
2645https://pastebin.com/DQ0uFVVb
2646
2647@wot/klamo
2648Are you talking about me?
2649 
2650@Dracobot
2651At this point, me and Fjen are the only sane ones, everyone else is batshit crazy trolls.
2652 
2653@hotdogeater
2654Yes i am. YOU are the ones who aren't.
2655 
2656@Sky
2657Please expose the climate change hoax from within. Tell us everything NASA told you.
2658 
2659@Vidkunssonn
2660You're confused. YOU are the little kid, I'm the big kid. I destroyed you with evidence, and you keep coming back like a dying insect. You lost, get over it.
2661 
2662@Scyth
2663Yes, and everyone sucks at it.
2664
2665==================================================
2666
2667Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/29 12:18
2668
2669"Evidence"
2670Don't make me laugh.
2671
2672==================================================
2673
2674Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/29 12:38
2675
26761) I have a hard time believing that you've never heard of the "Illuminati" conspiracy that supposedly rule the world and plaster triangles everywhere.
2677
26782) Still waiting on that Realpolitik motive, you know, the plan that your entire argument rests on? Ignore this if you want, but it's not doing your "rational" image any favors. You just don't have any foundation to be accusing NASA of faking their data without this conspiracy of yours having a plausible motive to extort them for.
2679
2680==================================================
2681
2682amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/29 14:03
2683
2684@Vidkunssonn
2685Not like you have any. I proved over 7 sources a while back.
2686
2687@TK
26881. I have heard of it, and it is bullshit.
2689
26902. the top scientists and journal publishers are bribed to promote the global warming hoax. No journal will get published for debating manmade climate change, because they simply wont allow it. Then the public buys into ther load of bullshit. I've explained it multiple times, you just dont get it.
2691
2692==================================================
2693
2694Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/29 14:16
2695
2696That's the accusation, I'm asking for the motive. What does anyone get out of making people believe a lie that would justify spending so much money? Especially when the lie would do nothing but cost more money, If it were enemy action, that'd be one thing but you've been specifically saying that our own government is responsible for this supposed misinformation campaign. What possible benefit could they extract from cutting their own tax base?
2697
2698==================================================
2699
2700RSLASHFLATEARTH			#g8ZCKAqA 2017/06/30 05:48
2701
2702Congratulations on the most retarded comment of the year amazingdude!
2703
2704>2. the top scientists and journal publishers are bribed to promote the global warming hoax. No journal will get published for debating manmade climate change, because they simply wont allow it. Then the public buys into ther load of bullshit. I've explained it multiple times, you just dont get it.
2705
2706==================================================
2707
2708Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/06/30 08:28
2709
2710Have you really proved several of your sources? Try some more. Start with your China argument.
2711
2712==================================================
2713
2714Guy						#FOK6yzuj 2017/06/30 12:32
2715
2716AMAZINGDUDE DOX
2717-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
2718Real name: Fred Michaelson
2719Home address: 11196 Carriage Ave, Montclair, California, United States
2720Race: White
2721Phone number: +1 (909) 642-8592
2722Age: 25
2723DOB: 1991-10-28
2724Siblings: 1
2725Occupation: Accountant
2726Mother: Stacy Hartford
2727DOB: 1963-05-13
2728Father: Richard Michaelson
2729DOB: 1964-08-19
2730-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
2731Next time, do not humiliate yourself on the internet.
2732
2733==================================================
2734
2735skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/06/30 13:02
2736
2737I don't want to have to defend AD, but that is totally inappropriate "Guy".
2738
2739==================================================
2740
2741amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/06/30 13:46
2742
2743@Guy
2744What the fuck? You really think its right to dox people because they dont believe the same conspiracy you do?
2745
2746@TK
2747More money for themselves. More money for the greentards unsustainable energy. Who's funding all this "research"?
2748
2749@R<something>
2750We'll see who's right when their conspiracy crumbles in on itself in a few years.
2751
2752==================================================
2753
2754Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/06/30 15:53
2755
2756NASA received about $18 billion dollars in 2012 from government grants, for contrast the Exxon Mobil payed over $145 billion in 2012. That's just one of the affected industries, the cut in profits would hit every business in the US that uses fossil fuels. I ask again, how would the government profit from cutting into the profits of their own oil industries to justify spending even more money on perpetuating a lie?
2757
2758Also what do you mean "unsustainable energy"? What exactly is unsustainable about harvesting sunlight, wind, tides or any other force?
2759
2760==================================================
2761
2762Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/06/30 17:15
2763
2764Guy, now I know more about Fred than I ever really wanted to. Thanks. Hopefully that comment will be removed. Unless he ends up provoking someone to kill themselves, he does not deserve to be doxed. The same goes for everybody here.
2765
2766@TK
2767Link plz fam kthx luv u
2768
2769==================================================
2770
2771Scythertom				#fc5Ccs22 2017/06/30 22:19
2772
2773Lmao there's no way that's real
2774
2775==================================================
2776
2777amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/01 05:10
2778
2779https://pastebin.com/JwvRqFJU
2780
2781@TK
2782It's all about More money for themselves.
2783 
2784As for unsustainability, wind and solar are very unfeasible. I present to you, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObvdSmPbdLg . Basically, you're not guaranteed to get energy, as it relies heavily on conditions, compared to fossil fuels, which are reliable, sustainable, cheap, and plentiful. A better way to see this is to imagine you have 2 candidates for a job: One that will work 40hr/wk consistantly, every day, and get his work done. Another can theoretically get it done is 20 hours, but he comes in whenever he feels like it and may or may not get it done. Which one would you rather hire? Solar panels use very rare elements, and to run the whole world on solar, you'd need 7 earths just to get all the rare elements. For wind, you'd need to fill the earth with wind turbines, and even then, the energy would be very unreliable.
2785 
2786Yes, fossil fuels won't last forever, but they will last us for 100 years at miniumu, while more optimistic estimates are 250+ years. Yes, we'll need a new energy source, and hydro and nuclear are our best alternatives. I shat on nuclear before, but I have since changed my mind. I think we should scrap wind, solar, and all that crap and put it into nuclear.
2787 
2788@Scythertom
2789I'm not gonna say whether it's real or not.
2790
2791==================================================
2792
2793Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/01 07:21
2794
2795It's real.
2796
2797==================================================
2798
2799Dark Doctor				#UssduMir 2017/07/01 08:01
2800
2801Doxing? Really?
2802
2803==================================================
2804
2805Guy						#Tk53rxkh 2017/07/01 08:49
2806
2807Dann right it is real amazingdude
2808
2809==================================================
2810
2811hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/01 12:45
2812
2813"Guy", that is just messed up. Why do you think its ok to go online and dox someone and reveal all their information
2814
2815==================================================
2816
2817Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/01 13:15
2818
2819If fossil fuels run out 300 years from now it'll be be vastly sooner than we run out of sunlight - 5 billion years. That's hardly unsustainable, unreliable sure, but they're definitely more sustainable than anything requiring fuel. What are these "very rare elements" that bottleneck solar energy so much? As far as I know, solar panels are mostly made of silicon semi-conductors. A bit out of the 60s' budget to mass-produce but certainly not now. 
2820
2821Comparing the every form of fossil fuel power together to just one form of green power is a little biased. Ideally we'd use the whole spectrum of green powers, from solar to wind to tidal to geothermal to motion to recycled waste heat. And then put nuclear plants in space to minimize land-loss.
2822
2823==================================================
2824
2825amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/01 18:25
2826
2827https://pastebin.com/j84aChy3
2828
2829They fixed the broken links. Also, why the hell is my dox still up?
2830 
2831@TK
2832 
2833It'll last 5 billion years, no doubt, but shit energy will always be shit energy no matter how long it lasts. And in 200 million years we'd have some more oil due to more recent organic matter being crushed into oil. However this is irrelevant.
2834
2835Most individual green energy sources faint in comparison to any fossil fuels, except for nuclear and maybe hydro. They are just shit. Nuclear in space is a great idea.
2836
2837==================================================
2838
2839-Greywolf9-				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 08:38
2840
2841I've had an idea for a kind of generator that turns due to magnets being repelled away from each other. There was a thing on Kickstarter I saw where a guy designed a car engine that ran on magnets, and I thought that maybe the same method could be used to generate electricity. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/948372200/magnets-motor?ref=video. Until this method is fully developed, nuclear is my favorite.
2842
2843==================================================
2844
2845Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/02 08:59
2846
2847*Waits patiently for nuclear fusion*
2848
2849==================================================
2850
2851skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 09:13
2852
2853Greywolf/Vid:
2854As much as I like alternative energy, that magnet generator is most likely not a valid option. It might increase the efficiency of an axle, but to imagine that it could generate energy would be to say that it's a perpetual motion machine, AKA impossible. There has to be some sort of external energy source to maintain movement, otherwise the friction of rotation will slow down whatever force the magnets provide until it stops completely.
2855
2856==================================================
2857
2858hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/02 09:38
2859
2860Nuclear fission is already in use, same for fusion, but fusion is only used in some nuclear bombs and we dont have a method to control it. Fission is in use for energy and its definitely reliable. Since climate change is more long term, we could, for a limited amount of time, continue using them, as better, and cleaner energy is put into use. Also, us running out of sunlight in five billion years will probably not even matter by then. Either we will die off or probably be everywhere by then.
2861
2862==================================================
2863
2864Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 10:31
2865
2866@skyk
2867The only way to prove that is to actually build the machine.
2868
2869==================================================
2870
2871skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 10:48
2872
2873Not really. I mean, besides the fact that it breaks the law of physics, any simulation would probably show the equilibrium point where the "generator" would stop. It's basically the same idea as the joke about the magnet car:
2874
2875==================================================
2876
2877amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/02 11:38
2878
2879@Vidkunssonn
2880I remember graywolf a long time ago on this site. If that magnet machine can produce enough energy, I'm down for it, however on a worldwide scale, its gonna be a bit hard to find all the materials to make enough magnets. I'd put money if i can, but if nobody else does, then my dollar or two really dont help, and they're rather pointless.
2881
2882@Hotdogeater
2883Climate change is not an issue worth doing anything about. Energy doesnt have to be clean, it just has to be reliale. Why does being clean matter?
2884
2885==================================================
2886
2887Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 13:49
2888
2889@amazingdude
2890Magnetic metal is not hard to find. Neodymium isn't that rare of a metal, and it's used for strong magnets. I do believe it's also possible to make metal magnetic. The difference is that the "car" is not powered by the magnets spinning. Two objects that attract to each other could not move a single object in a single direction, which is much different than, let's say, 4 objects pushing 4 other objects in different directions could produce torque.
2891
2892http://i.xomf.com/bcqjx.jpg
2893This is a very crude drawing of what I fail to describe. Not sure if it's clear, because my drawing skills are 0/10, but it's the best I got.
2894
2895==================================================
2896
2897skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 14:36
2898
2899Unless there's some external force causing the magnets to spin, it won't make any difference whether they're rotating or how many magnets there are. At any given point in the rotation, the magnetic forces in multiple different directions would cancel out with the tension of the structures holding the magnets in, and it wouldn't move.
2900
2901==================================================
2902
2903Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/02 14:42
2904
2905It's the force of the magnets repelling each other that makes the inner disc spin. The magnets themselves are not spinning, they are being repelled by the magnets on the outer disc, causing the inner disc to spin.
2906
2907==================================================
2908
2909skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/02 14:57
2910
2911Magnet's don't generate force any more than a rubber band does. They can repel, but when a magnet repels it is also equally repelled (Newton's third law).
2912Here's a better explanation than I can probably give:
2913https://www.quora.com/Is-a-magnetic-motor-that-produces-free-energy-possible/answer/Luciano-Zoso
2914
2915==================================================
2916
2917Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/02 17:42
2918
2919Yeah, that magnet engine probably wouldn't work. You need a power source to spin the outer magnets to spin the inner magnets to generate power. It's just a turbine with extra steps.
2920
2921==================================================
2922
2923amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/02 18:03
2924
2925And, the brainwashed fools kill off the climate change debate once again!
2926Happy Murica day!
2927
2928==================================================
2929
2930Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/02 21:31
2931
2932The debate could have still been going on if you actually replied properly to my points. 
2933
2934==================================================
2935
2936Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/02 23:47
2937
2938I'm still unconvinced that any number of greedy politicians would prioritize a notorious cash-sink like green energy research over taxes (and lobbying) from oil/coal/gas industries. Also I recently learned that the ocean absorbs like 10% more carbon than it used to in the 90s which is lowering the ph level and making it harder for shellfish to reproduce while simultaneously increasing the frequency of red tides.
2939
2940==================================================
2941
2942Scythertom				#fc5Ccs22 2017/07/03 04:15
2943
2944amazingdude it's not America day yet goddamnit! I'll freedom slap you back to commieland if you don't get your dates right.
2945
2946==================================================
2947
2948amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/03 05:13
2949
2950@T&W
2951You didnt to mine
2952
2953@TK
2954Neither am I, because its not happening.
2955Ocean acificication is simply made up. The ocean is fucking HUGE. To turn it to acid, you would need over 70 earths full of carbon just to get its ph under 7. The ocean is already alkaline to begin with. And it has been shown that shellfish benefit from added carbon, and coral bleaching is natural and happens in cycles.
2956
2957@Scythertom
2958I said it in advance.
2959
2960==================================================
2961
2962Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/03 07:52
2963
2964@Fred
2965The fact that there's a measurable difference in pH in the oceans between the 90s and today means there's a problem and that what he said is not made up.
2966And T&W has responded with properly to what you've said. He told you his first-hand experiences with what goes on in China, and you ignored it because you knew it meant you're wrong. The worst kind of person is the one that is unable to accept the fact that they might be wrong once in their lifetime, and you're proving yourself more and more to be that kind of person.
2967
2968==================================================
2969
2970amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/03 11:47
2971
2972@Vidkunssonn
2973I debunked his china claim, and he doubled down on his "fact" I proved false already. HE is that person. The ocean's ph varies by location and time of year. Those readings are just as credible as taking a temperature in antarctica today and in the sahara next year claiming global warming.
2974
2975==================================================
2976
2977Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/03 13:58
2978
2979@Fred
2980Telling someone that they're wrong is not "debunking". So far, that's all you've said to him: a series of "you're wrong"s and "that's not true"s. To discredit someone's first-hand experience without evidence of any kind or any reason besides to not have to accept defeat is what makes you that kind of person.
2981
2982>The ocean's ph varies by location and time of year.
2983No shit. It's called an "average", you dillhole.
2984
2985==================================================
2986
2987amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/03 18:33
2988
2989@Vidkunssonn
2990I proved his china claim wrong. PROVED IT.
2991Also, "Those ph readings are just as credible as taking a temperature in antarctica today and in the sahara next year claiming global warming."
2992
2993==================================================
2994
2995Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/03 18:47
2996
2997"1. The vast majority of Chinese urban population does not need an air mask. Only in the most extreme areas on heavy days do people need masks. This is an example of media manipulation."
2998
2999"China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media."
3000
3001That is 100% of your "counter-argument" against it. The definition of "prove" is "demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument." There is no "evidence" against it in 100% of what you've said, and saying "[this] is true" is not an argument, so to say that you've "proven" anything is about as accurate as saying TK is secretly a furry who's in love with STS.
3002
3003==================================================
3004
3005Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/04 01:04
3006
3007@amazingdude
3008You made a statement unsupported by any evidence. China has a bad problem with pollution, regardless of comments by western media, which are no longer even as critical about China's environmental standing as they used to be. Deal with it. I know because I live there. Go to China and see for yourself.
3009
3010==================================================
3011
3012amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/04 04:34
3013
3014@Vidkunssonn
3015There is evidence, you just cant see it because your brainwashed by the hoax.
3016
3017@T&W
3018Wheres your evicence boii? You just restate your bullshit that was proven wrong before.
3019
3020==================================================
3021
3022Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/04 04:52
3023
3024Where? Where is the fucking evidence? I'm sorry to tell you this, but your beloved imaginary evidence doesn't fucking exist. Look at everything you said, and tell me which part of it was evidence against T&W's claim. If I'm satisfied that what you give me is actually evidence, I'll stop talking about this.
3025
3026Note: "evidence" does not include you saying "[so and so] is [this]". You need citation from an outside source that supports your claim (articles, pictures, etc.), not just something you've said. Stating your belief is not evidence, and if you try to pass what I've repeated from you as your evidence, I will also stop talking because you're too stupid and ignorant for me to want to continue this shit with you.
3027Good luck.
3028
3029==================================================
3030
3031Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/04 05:02
3032
3033@amazingdude
3034Have you proved that I'm not in China? Have you proved that the things I see are incorrect? Have you proved that the smell of sulphur coming from the river I pass every day is faked by this supposed global science network? Is the smog I see generated by some special effects machine owned by western media companies? You've done nothing.
3035
3036==================================================
3037
3038Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/04 06:53
3039
3040@amazingdude
3041I believe that Grey meant that the ocean's carbon levels don't fluctuate from place to place as e.xtremely as the temperature does when comparing Antarctica to the Sahara, so the average wouldn't deviate abnormally from usual.
3042Disclaimer: this is my interpretation of Grey's words, not any of my own. : )
3043
3044==================================================
3045
3046hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/05 07:08
3047
3048If you get a cup of water, take a sip from it then leave it out over night, if you take another sip it will taste different. This is because the water absorbed CO2 making the water slightly more acidic, and thats why it tastes different. This is also happening to the ocean, although slower since the ocean probably has over a trillion times the water in that cup. The ocean is absorbing C02 and measurements show that the ocean is becoming slightly more acidic.
3049
3050==================================================
3051
3052amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/05 11:08
3053
3054@Vidkunssonn
3055I just posted the evidence. No reputable source will back me up, because big science wont allow it.
3056
3057@T&W
3058I proved all of that. Pollution exists, but manmade climate change does not.
3059
3060@Hotdgeater
3061"Slightly" as in 0.00...01 PH. The mass of all the co2 in the atmosphere is 2*10^15 kilograms. The mass of all the oceans are 1.4*10^21 kilograms. Thats like saying 1 gram of CO2 is gonna turn 700kg of water into acid, which is phsycially impossible. There is not enough CO2 on earth to turn the oceans into acid. Are you fucking brain dead? Thats assuming ALL of the co2 on earth goes into the oceans. Right now, only a fraction of earth's CO2 is going into the oceans, so the effect is gonna be even less.
3062I shouldnt have even used metric because its murica day, but it's easier to work with when dealing with huge numbers. You can thank me for that.
3063
3064==================================================
3065
3066Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/05 12:06
3067
3068@amazingdude
3069That's assuming the effects of acidification affects the entire volume of all of the oceans in the world equally, which is obviously not true. It's primarily an effect near the surface of the water, and even then is more of an issue in certain regions of the oceans than others.
3070
3071And you're saying you've proven..
30721) T&W does not live in China
3073
30742) The sulfur he smells every day when he passes that river is faked by your supposed global science network
3075
30763) The smog he sees is generated by a special effects machine owned by western media companies
3077
3078==================================================
3079
3080Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/05 17:18
3081
3082What do you mean you agree that they wouldn't back their own green energy conspiracy over the profits of keeping the fossil fuel industries?! That's not what you've been saying at all. Fine, whatever. If you're going to insist on backtracking on that point, then who does have the means and motive to back "big science"?
3083
3084==================================================
3085
3086Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/06 07:59
3087
3088@amazingdude
3089You're saying you have no data that agrees with your theory and you have no reputable sources to support your claim either. Isn't that just typical? 
3090
3091==================================================
3092
3093amazingdude				#iv2PucoH 2017/07/06 12:35
3094
3095@Vidkunssonn
3096Acidic water is heavier, and it tends to sink to the bottom. This convection should ensure that the whole ocean is affected equally by CO2 levels.
3097
3098@TK
3099Of course its not. You cant understand my arguments. The wolrd governments are the backers of big science.
3100
3101@T&W
3102You say that to me, but really its true for you.
3103
3104==================================================
3105
3106Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/06 15:27
3107
3108@amazingdude
3109No, I didn't say that, you said that yourself. 'No reputable source will back me up'. If you can't even find any 'alternative' sources to support your claim. How could you have proved me wrong when you haven't even used the word 'China' for 3 days, let alone disprove the fact I live there? You haven't even mentioned sulphur or haze yet.
3110
3111==================================================
3112
3113Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/06 19:15
3114
3115If they already control every government on Earth, why would they need more power? The first rule of international politics is that you can do whatever you want as long as nobody more powerful stops you. Somebody who already has the most power wouldn't need a faux information campaign to legitimize anything, they'd just do it.
3116
3117==================================================
3118
3119Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/07 15:52
3120
3121@amazingdude
3122You are highly overestimating dilution rates in the oceans; that, or you just don't understand it. It's okay, not everybody is good at chemistry. *pats your head*
3123
3124==================================================
3125
3126hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/08 05:09
3127
3128Cold water is also heavier (until it freezes). As you go deeper, the temperature of the water will drop.
3129
3130==================================================
3131
3132SkyPhantomhive			#qRyKW7MC 2017/07/08 13:29
3133
3134Yes we should celebrate the downfall of the Climate change PG2 series..
3135
3136==================================================
3137
3138amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/08 17:32
3139
3140@T&W
3141China. I have found sources, I posted them numerous times. Scroll down a few weeks to find them, I'm not gonna let you be lazy.
3142
3143@TK
3144Money aint infinite. You cant just print money if you dont wanna become Zimbabwe.
3145
3146@Vidkunssonn
3147Who just did more math in one comment than you did in your whole life? Re read that comment.
3148
3149@Hotdogeater
3150How is this relevant?
3151
3152==================================================
3153
3154Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/08 19:34
3155
31561) That's not exactly true, it's worth whatever the world's appraisers say it's worth, and if this conspiracy actually extends to every developed/developing nation (as it would have to to have any chance at succeeding) then the world government could just force compliance and jail whoever disagrees. After all, they certainly don't care about what's true and it's not like there'd be anyone to stop them.
3157
31582) I'm not the one that's been insinuating that there's a global conspiracy to brainwash people into demanding that the primary tax-base cut their profits for the sake of pouring more funding into propaganda. That's been you. 
3159
3160People generally believe themselves to have good reasons for doing things; that's my position, I've been asking you to clarify yours because that mess above sounds like a Scooby Doo villain plot to me.
3161
3162==================================================
3163
3164Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/08 19:41
3165
3166https://pastebin.com/VZjdA0cK
3167
3168@Amazingdude
3169 
3170Let's see...instead of countering my point like a normal person, you ask me to...find sources to counter my own point? Clearly I am the one being lazy here. Anyway, all things aside, here are some of your wonderful arguments I have picked up:
3171 
31721. The vast majority of Chinese urban population does not need an air mask. Only in the most extreme areas on heavy days do people need masks. This is an example of media manipulation.
3173 
3174"China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media.
3175 
3176Chinese pollution is exaggerated heavily by the media.
3177 
3178I proved his china claim wrong. PROVED IT."
3179 
3180You just restate your bullshit that was proven wrong before.
3181 
3182Just a small selection of the rebuttals you have made against me. Not a single source to be found. Only the first argument you made can be considered acceptable, which I countered immediately afterwards. All you did after that was respond 'China's pollution is vastly exaggerated by the media'. Providing that I literally live in China, have provided personal accounts to back by point up, and cannot be access western media at a regular rate, you point cannot be considered at all.
3183
3184==================================================
3185
3186Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/09 00:25
3187
3188My recommendation? Ignore amazingdude. Everyone. I appreciate you doing the right thing and supporting science, but we're just spinning our wheels as it is now. I was going to just let this peter out, but some "Guy" spurred me to action by crossing the line and attacking amazindude ad hominem by posting his info, which is just wrong, no matter the person. This debate is now dangerous. I urge both sides to drop it. And speaking specifically to amazingdude, you literally cannot make a comprehensive argument out of something not backed by actual facts. You are allowed an opinion, sure, in America we're allowed to have them, but you shouldn't force your opinion on others without concrete evidence. What I'm saying is that you won't be able to convince everyone, so you can sit back and stop wasting your time. If everyone needs something to talk about, you guys can pick something more disputed, like policy proposals or somesuch. I just urge you all to drop this before more people's personal lives get pulled into the limelight that is the internet.
3189
3190==================================================
3191
3192amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/09 15:28
3193
3194@TK
31951. They wont do that, thatll blow their cover more than it already has been.
31962. Yes, that is correct. My reason to believe them is that their evidence seems more believable than the government wants you to believe.
3197
3198@T&W
3199You havent provided sources to backup YOUR claim. How are you more credible than me, who hasnt done that either? Take a pic of your city, holding a paper saying "For Amazingdude". Go on, do it. Host it on some chinese image site or something. Prove me wrong.
3200
3201@Poofle
3202Who just got doxxed and is STILL CONTINUING what he was doing to get him doxxed? I doubt any of you have the balls to continue arguing after getting doxxed. For all we know he could have been a global warming shill who tried to scare the opposition out of existance. I'm not "forcing my opinion", I'm stating a fact. I'm no different than any of you other people, or even a teacher. I have stated my sources many times, but I got sick and tired of posting the same 6 links on every comment I made.
3203
3204==================================================
3205
3206Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/09 16:24
3207
3208Anyone who already controls the world doesn't need a cover and won't use one. Autocratic behavior is one of the best documented phenomena in human history, none of them are subtle.
3209
3210==================================================
3211
3212Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/10 00:26
3213
3214Note: I messed up and couldn't put this all on yesterday. This is the first part of my whole comment.
3215
3216All right, all right.
3217I have been observing this for the past few months from the beginning. I only posted once, to hopefully put a definitive end to this debacle. To sum it up in a few sentences, this is what I've seen:
3218
3219amazingdude: Man-made climate change is purely beneficial.
3220Everyone else: Well, no, because of {all the sources and reputed arguments listed}
3221amazingdude: Well, "Big Science" supported that, so it's wrong.
3222
3223Here, I see an underlying, unresolvable issue. Everyone other than amazingdude, everyone seems to agree that a network of scientists, some paid by the government, some not, agree that climate change is real, man-made, and ultimately harmful to our environment as massive quantities of sequestered carbon is released back into the atmosphere.
3224
3225amazingdude, however, is convinced that peer-reviewed and government research is all inherently bogus.
3226So here's my assessment: amazingdude, if he's not a troll (which I really think he is, based off of the fact that he keeps repeating the same things, as long as he gets a reaction), then he ardently believes in something that literally cannot be proved as society is today, 
3227
3228==================================================
3229
3230Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/10 03:14
3231
3232Holy shit, Poofle, you talk a lot.
3233@amazingdude
3234"Who just did more math in one comment than you did in your whole life?"
3235You've done no math at all. Ever. Not once since you started this shit.
3236
3237==================================================
3238
3239Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/10 04:49
3240
3241@Amazingdude
3242The activities you listed are impossible for me at the moment, for I am on holiday in France. I'll do all that sign stuff after I get back next week. However, I have gotten my friend to take a picture of what my city is like at the moment. http://imgur.com/a/T2nyc
3243
3244Anyway, now you admit to having posted no sources, despite you previously saying that you've posted them 'numerous times'. Good job. Furthermore, one does not win by equalling their opponent, rather by exceeding them. If you want to win this debate, I suggest to gather some evidence first.
3245
3246My personal experience can be considered evidence. Examples of this can be found extensively in the real world. The accuracy and validity of such accounts can be challenged, which despite taking you three weeks to address, is what you have just done.
3247
3248==================================================
3249
3250Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/10 11:33
3251
3252@Poofle
3253For the record, amazingdude is a troll. Just look at his previous uploads. He also comes every now and then to bring up a controversial topic to start a debate (I believe the last one was the gun control debate). But I'm not suggesting that these aren't his actual beliefs, because they could be (the boy who cried climate change, right?). I'm actually glad that this debate is happening. This board has been super active for a very long time. I'll admit, the dox was over the line, but as long as nothing else extreme happens, I'm fine and even enjoy a good debate.
3254
3255==================================================
3256
3257Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/10 11:41
3258
3259Here's the middle of my really long comment. It's the last one, I promise.
3260
3261as it questions the very system we use to actually prove things scientifically. Everyone else leans on experts, studies, and other supported facts to support their claims. As such, the argument is at an impasse where one person is basing their arguments on an entirely unprovable set of beliefs, while the world is backed by, well, the world. So long as amazingdude chooses not to believe "Big Science," this debate will never end until one party drops it. If this were a formal debate, we'd have a time limit and a judge to look at the facts laid out and choose a winner, but since it isn't, this will never end, as coming to an agreement is apparently impossible. 
3262
3263++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3264
3265POOFLE'S COMMENT FULL - RECOMPILED LATER
3266
3267All right, all right.
3268I have been observing this for the past few months from the beginning. I only posted once, to hopefully put a definitive end to this debacle. To sum it up in a few sentences, this is what I've seen:
3269
3270amazingdude: Man-made climate change is purely beneficial.
3271Everyone else: Well, no, because of {all the sources and reputed arguments listed}
3272amazingdude: Well, "Big Science" supported that, so it's wrong.
3273
3274Here, I see an underlying, unresolvable issue. Everyone other than amazingdude, everyone seems to agree that a network of scientists, some paid by the government, some not, agree that climate change is real, man-made, and ultimately harmful to our environment as massive quantities of sequestered carbon is released back into the atmosphere.
3275
3276amazingdude, however, is convinced that peer-reviewed and government research is all inherently bogus.
3277So here's my assessment: amazingdude, if he's not a troll (which I really think he is, based off of the fact that he keeps repeating the same things, as long as he gets a reaction), then he ardently believes in something that literally cannot be proved as society is today, as it questions the very system we use to actually prove things scientifically. Everyone else leans on experts, studies, and other supported facts to support their claims. As such, the argument is at an impasse where one person is basing their arguments on an entirely unprovable set of beliefs, while the world is backed by, well, the world. So long as amazingdude chooses not to believe "Big Science," this debate will never end until one party drops it. If this were a formal debate, we'd have a time limit and a judge to look at the facts laid out and choose a winner, but since it isn't, this will never end, as coming to an agreement is apparently impossible. 
3278
3279My recommendation? Ignore amazingdude. Everyone. I appreciate you doing the right thing and supporting science, but we're just spinning our wheels as it is now. I was going to just let this peter out, but some "Guy" spurred me to action by crossing the line and attacking amazindude ad hominem by posting his info, which is just wrong, no matter the person. This debate is now dangerous. I urge both sides to drop it. And speaking specifically to amazingdude, you literally cannot make a comprehensive argument out of something not backed by actual facts. You are allowed an opinion, sure, in America we're allowed to have them, but you shouldn't force your opinion on others without concrete evidence. What I'm saying is that you won't be able to convince everyone, so you can sit back and stop wasting your time. If everyone needs something to talk about, you guys can pick something more disputed, like policy proposals or somesuch. I just urge you all to drop this before more people's personal lives get pulled into the limelight that is the internet.
3280
3281
3282++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
3283
3284Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/07/10 11:54
3285
3286And Dracobot, you make a good point. It's cool that anyone looking at this board can learn about the reality of climate change (that it is harmful, before a certain dude tries to twist my words). I'm just frustrated at everyone being led around in circles from incessant "I know you are but what am I" type comments.
3287
3288==================================================
3289
3290Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/10 12:30
3291
3292@Dracobot (and I guess everybody who likes Meowbin)
3293Electrashave told me that she started remaking Meowbin from scratch and will add new features, such as accounts (which in turn allows paste editing). I'm not too sure when that'll be finished, but Meowbin will be a whole lot fancier soon, so stay tuned.
3294She's also creating a text editor app. I've used the prototype, and honestly, it's not half bad.
3295
3296==================================================
3297
3298amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/10 17:51
3299
3300https://pastebin.com/1kAUUSVx
3301
3302@TK
3303Kinda hard to remain in power if everyone hates you. This has happened many times in history.
3304 
3305@Poofle
3306Please learn how to pastebin. Anyway, these are my honest beliefs. I'm not a troll. You cant win a debate with false facts. Their facts are supported by garbage, which makes their facts garbage. Yes, I am glad people can learn the truth of climate change (from me).
3307 
3308@Vidkunssonn
3309Hmm... "The mass of all the co2 in the atmosphere is 2*10^15 kilograms. The mass of all the oceans are 1.4*10^21 kilograms. Thats like saying 1 gram of CO2 is gonna turn 700kg of water into acid, which is phsycially impossible. There is not enough CO2 on earth to turn the oceans into acid. Are you fucking brain dead?"
3310 
3311@T&W
3312Thank you for attempting to prove your claim. However that picture does not necessarily prove pollution. It could easily be natural fog or clouds, since the street appears to be wet. Perhaps rain? Is it like that every day, or was today just a one off? Does the air smell like crap? It could very well be pollution or a "western media fog machine", or maybe just fog, but we'll need more proof to tell for sure. Still a good start, and I credit you with it and will be a bit more open to it.
3313 
3314@Dracobot
3315I'm not a troll, these are my real beliefs, in case any other lurkers dont know. Last one was more of politics as a whole than just guns, but yes, I am very pro gun and pro trump. I come on here because I like to argue. Arguments on here involve more people and last much longer than Reddit arguments. I did used to play the games, but not anymore (TPT is better).
3316
3317==================================================
3318
3319Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/11 00:48
3320
3321That's Liberalist rhetoric, traditionally reserved for democracies- autocrats use Realpolitik. Kill or imprison enough dissidents and eventually there'll stop being dissidents to kill or imprison, just like good old Joseph Stalin.
3322
3323==================================================
3324
3325amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/11 15:24
3326
3327@TK
3328Every country that did that has collapsed or is about to (NK). Name me a country that still exists that has succeeded like that, and is not going to collapse in 5 years.
3329
3330==================================================
3331
3332Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/12 00:40
3333
3334Statistically speaking, liberalist democracies collapse even faster.
3335North Korea itself has been due to collapse in 5 years for about 60 years now.
3336
3337the point I'm making is that an eventual collapse is inevitable and doesn't factor into decisions much. Especially not when a show of force is historically proven to stabilize internal pressures over many centuries until external pressure is also applied.
3338
3339==================================================
3340
3341amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/12 14:31
3342
3343Huh, everyone surrendered.
3344
3345@TK
3346This has gone quite off topic.
3347
3348==================================================
3349
3350Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/12 23:52
3351
3352I'm curious. Are you skeptical about other science-backed conspiracies such as how fracking increases earthquake activity?
3353
3354==================================================
3355
3356amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/13 03:53
3357
3358@Dracobot
3359I am pro fracking. Yes, it causes earthquakes, but so does coal mining and alot of other stuff, and what it does cause is magnitude 2 or less, which are harmless.
3360
3361==================================================
3362
3363tauss					#AHnQiTFf 2017/07/13 04:28
3364
3365@amazingdude
3366Fracking, however, can pollute ground water and be detrimental to the life surrounding it.
3367
3368==================================================
3369
3370alan511234				#pf6n5mgO 2017/07/13 04:30
3371
3372Youre all stupid liberals! 
3373
3374==================================================
3375
3376Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/13 06:19
3377
3378@tauss
3379I don't know if you were around for it, but we've been over that and amazingdude doesn't care about the general welfare of the biosphere won't be swayed by anything that doesn't directly affect human civilization.
3380
3381@amazingdude
3382How is it off-topic? As Poofle said earlier there's just no point in addressing GCC directly because we both distrust the sources that the other sides rely on. I noticed that back when you said NASA was being bribed, so the logical course of continuing this would be for you to bring out whatever made you believe there's a world government controlling everything and for me to point out that the international stage seems just as Might-makes-Right-ish as it was when the British Empire was the hegemonic power making up the rules for everyone else.
3383
3384==================================================
3385
3386Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/13 08:33
3387
3388@amazingdude
3389Nah, not gone yet. Being on holiday means I'm both busy and tired. The haze in the picture is definitely not fog. It was taken at 3pm in the afternoon at a temperature of 34 degrees Celsius or ninetysomething Fahrenheit, as is the norm for China at this time of year. I believe there was a short spell of rain just beforehand. It is definitely possible that whatever pollution is accentuated by low-lying clouds, but that does not account for the entire problem. And yes, the weather is typical of China at this time, when it is both hot and humid, with heavy but intermittent rain. The air in China doesn't typically smell bad, but that is because people breathe constantly. There is a noticable difference in air quality if you compare it to the French countryside. I'll send more pictures soon. 
3390
3391==================================================
3392
3393amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/13 11:33
3394
3395@Tauss
3396Thats not the fracking thats causing it. That's the already existing natural gas. The gas already in the ground is seeping out and into the soil. Completely unrelated to the fracking process.
3397
3398@TK
3399Correct.
3400Look I dont know how all the world governments work. Thats not related to AGW.
3401
3402@T&W
3403Just looks like clouds to me. Yes, there is some pollution, but its not the blinding killer fog the media portrays it.
3404
3405==================================================
3406
3407Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/15 05:22
3408
3409Well as I was saying before, the current value science of money wouldn't apply to a blatantly tyrannical world government, because they can just set the pricing of everything themselves. If there's only one government, then there's only one currency, and therefore nothing to compare it to that would cause inflation. This is also why a propaganda scheme to fill their pockets doesn't make any sense- they already own everything, those bits of paper are only given value by themselves. A better use of propaganda would be to encourage an almost fanatical support for globalism and to paint themselves as the reason the peace that naturally results when there's nobody left to war with.
3410
3411==================================================
3412
3413amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/15 09:11
3414
3415@TK
3416So, you're saying that they dont need to fake the science? wtf?
3417
3418==================================================
3419
3420Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/15 10:53
3421
3422I've been saying that, yes. Total control makes most economic concerns moot, all they really have to worry about at that point is e.xtracting and refining as much useful material as they can- a goal which you might have noticed is in direct opposition to environmentalist rhetoric.
3423
3424==================================================
3425
3426amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/16 15:40
3427
3428I win the debate?
3429
3430==================================================
3431
3432skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/16 16:01
3433
3434AD, just because people get tired of talking to you doesn't mean you win. You're either right or wrong, and nothing anyone else says or doesn't say is going to change how well your beliefs reflect reality. I could have a "debate" where I just repeat "the Earth is a cube" until everyone else leaves, but that doesn't mean I "won".
3435
3436==================================================
3437
3438Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/16 16:57
3439
3440Plus he didn't even try to defend my assertion that both of his conspiracy theories actively work against the other's credibility. So even by the "you're not talking so I win" rules he still doesn't win.
3441
3442==================================================
3443
3444Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/16 21:51
3445
3446@amazingdude
3447From what I've read, I don't think the media even portray it that way. They're more focused on what China is doing to reduce pollution from what I can see. 
3448
3449==================================================
3450
3451amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/17 12:42
3452
3453@Skyk
3454I'm right. And I have been affected by this debate positively. I once believed nuclear was evil, but I now believe it is good. I also got a chance to research deeper into the global warming truth. My beliefs reflect reality more now than 3 months ago.
3455
3456@TK
3457You stopped making since once you drifted away from debating climate change.
3458
3459@T&W
3460The media reports about killer fog that you cant see more than 5 feet ahead. That is what I mean by the media manipulation.
3461
3462==================================================
3463
3464Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/17 13:25
3465
3466At this point, I'm almost 94% certain AD doesn't actually believe a single word he says, because he puts 0% of his effort into defending any of it beyond the casual "I'm right, you're wrong" types of statements. 77% of that 94% believes he's just doing this shit for the explicit purpose of making the board active again. 16% of it believes he's just doing it for the lols. The remaining 1% believes this is his fetish.
3467
3468==================================================
3469
3470Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/17 18:00
3471
3472What's not to get? Either there's a world government that doesn't benefit from spreading lies about a climate phenomena or there's a science community being bribed by nobody for no reason. Or is it that there's a group competent enough to take over the world yet incompetent enough to bungle everything after that?
3473
3474==================================================
3475
3476amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/18 04:57
3477
3478@Vidkunssonn
3479I'm serious, I'm just tired of repeating myself because you idiots dont believe me. If anyone here is gonna survive a zombie apocalypse, its all of you, because the zombies wont smell any brains.
3480
3481@TK
3482You've lost all sense.
3483
3484==================================================
3485
3486Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/18 06:13
3487
3488@amazingdude: 
3489It's just what you've described to me filtered through what I know about history and political machinations. I can't help that everything you've been saying sounds ridiculous when applied to existing tactics.
3490
3491@tauss: 
3492Nah, I just said the first non-blood-goddy noun I could think of. Like that cult in Romantically Apocalyptic that worships the ingredients list of a juice box.
3493
3494==================================================
3495
3496Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/18 06:50
3497
3498@amazingdude
3499You may be thinking that less-obvious things are obvious. We all think differently, and clearly they have yet to see it the way you do. Try to explain it again or don't, it just might be something different than "stupidity" at play.
3500This also goes for the other side, just saying.
3501
3502==================================================
3503
3504Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/18 13:02
3505
3506I understand everything he's saying; it just isn't true. When forming his opinions, he doesn't factor in 75% of the science that affects what he's forming his opinion of.
3507
3508==================================================
3509
3510hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/19 06:59
3511
3512There hasn't been a statement in the argument for at least 12 hours, lets hope this is the end of the argument, this thing has been going on for almost two months now
3513
3514==================================================
3515
3516amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/19 07:36
3517
3518@Vidkunssonn
3519I factored in science. I chose my viewpoint based on the information I could find. I base my beliefs on science.
3520
3521@hotdogeater
3522never
3523
3524@Dracobot
3525Well you guys think wrong. If i havent convinved you yet, I never will.
3526
3527==================================================
3528
3529Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/19 08:02
3530
3531The deate on EE went for over 8 years and covered like 40 topics, I'm hoping we can break that record.
3532
3533==================================================
3534
3535Tyne and wear			#n8EflRcW 2017/07/19 08:50
3536
3537Do you think it's more humiliating for Amazingdude to fail at pretending to be a 25 year old or to a speak and act like a child at the age of 25?
3538
3539@amazingdude
3540As I've said before, western media play no part in polluting China. Western media stays in the west and Chinese pollution (mostly) stays in China. What evidence do YOU have, whether it's statistics, reports or photographs, that western media exaggerate their claims? And why is that even relevant when China faces problems with pollution anyway?
3541
3542==================================================
3543
3544tauss					#5pWYfzbu 2017/07/19 09:18
3545
3546@Torture King
3547...*facepalm*... Please. Do something useful in your life, spending a decade debating on Japanese game website is most likely detrimental.
3548
3549==================================================
3550
3551Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/19 09:59
3552
3553https://meowbin.com/pastes?id=35f9h48d00
3554
3555@tauss
3556I doubt this is the most useful thing he does with his life.
3557
3558@T&W
3559Well, to be less than 25 and to pretend to be 25 is something to be expected of people who don't want to appear as children on the internet. A lot of people think that being young is a curse and therefore do whatever they can to seem less young to those who can't figure out the truth.
3560To be 25 and act younger is just plain creepy, unless it isn't intentional, which means the person is just immature and stupid.
3561
3562@amazingdude
3563Yes, you do use science. That is a true fact. However, you do not use all the science that matters (or you just ignore it because it goes against your point). For example, the carbonifying of the oceans: you do take into account that if all the carbon in the atmosphere were to be absorbed by the ocean and spread out equally, the effect on the ocean will not be enough for anything to be affected. However, that is not the case. You fail to take into consideration the laws of dilution in the air and the ocean. Tell me, what is the likelyhood that a single carbon dioxide molecule would be able to get from a coal plant in China to the bottom of the Marianas Trench within the next 5 years? Sounds ridiculous, does it not? That idea is what you're arguing for, and the truth of the matter is is that a carbon dioxide molecule wouldn't go 2% of that distance in 5 years if traveling by air and ocean currents alone. Dilution is a slow, slow process if left to be done naturally; so, yes, TK's claim that carbon acidifies the ocean and hurts shellfish populations is accurate because the carbon builds up in the beaches near large carbon emissions because it doesn't spread throughout the ocean equally at a fast enough rate for the shellfish to be unaffected.
3564
3565Another group of people who don't consider all the science important to their claims are the Flat Earthers. Just bring up light diffraction in the atmosphere when they start talking about the curvature of the earth and pictures of buildings or mountains and they'll get pissy.
3566
3567==================================================
3568
3569Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/19 12:12
3570
3571@amazingdude
3572You may not be good at explaining your beliefs to people who don't share your point of view. Maybe there's a different way to explain it that you haven't tried yet. And you can't say that you know there isn't unless you actually prove it in some way.
3573
3574@hotdogeater1000
3575I know, isn't it beautiful? I've always liked large-scale arguments. Unfortunately, the best ones occurred such a long time ago that TK is the only one still around to tell tales.
3576
3577==================================================
3578
3579amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/19 13:03
3580
3581@TK
3582What debate? What topics? Ive never been to the EE board so IDK.
3583
3584@T&W
3585I am 25. How do you want me to prove it?
3586https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/View_of_Beijing.jpg
3587I dont see any pollution.
3588
3589@Vidkunssonn
3590Carbonated water is heavier than non carbonated water, so it sinks and fresh water takes its place, to get carbonfied and sink, and it continues. Its called convection. The water gets so diluted that all the carbon on earth would only make the ocean 0.000001% more acidic. More ocean CO2 = more food for sea plants = more O2 for sea animals. You cant lose.
3591
3592@Dracobot
3593You cant fix stupid. I've linked videos, articles, etc and you never catch on.
3594
3595==================================================
3596
3597Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/19 16:54
3598
3599What deb- wha-? Why, THE GREAT DEBATE, of course! One of the few things with its own page on the Dan-Ball wiki that wasn't authored by ha55ii.
3600It covered basically everything, but sadly I only have the first ~100 pages documented by SandMaster and the tail end of it that has yet to be swallowed by the 1000 post limit. Fortunately, SandMaster made another megapost that I either lost or didn't get in the first place, and I think kyoto made another one before he was deployed to Afganistan- so there's still a trickle of hope of recovering more of it.
3601
3602https://pastebin.com/bWZDxDv1
3603https://pastebin.com/kk8p0ikE
3604
3605==================================================
3606
3607Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/19 19:12
3608
3609https://pastebin.com/1gBZkWsD
3610
3611@TK
3612I remember looking on the EE comment section and seeing that debate. I tried to find the beginning and then I was just like...nope.
3613 
3614@Amazingdude
3615You sure talk and act like a child:
3616"Well you guys think wrong."
3617"We should relocate people who are in flood zones to less-floody areas."
3618"Wheres your evicence boii?"
3619 
3620Seriously, I haven't seen anybody beyond the age of 14 speak like this unironically.
3621 
3622Firstly, not all pollution can be seen, particularly not other forms of pollution, such as land and water pollution. Anyway, we are talking about air pollution as of now. Particulates and gases do not have to be seen to cause harm. Of course, when it does become visible, the problem is much, much worse. You can, in fact, see some haze in the background, haze that is not visible over, say, the French countryside. Image by yours truly. http://imgur.com/a/lWTPU
3623 
3624That image you posted was taken for the purposes of photography to display on the internet. Therefore, the image of a clear Beijing skyline would not have been uploaded onto the internet had it been taken on a day when the conditions been different, because that would make the photo less attractive. This, among other factors, is why there appears to be pictures of clearer skies above Beijing. Furthermore, your image is limited by a time and location owing to the purpose that it was taken. Therefore my photographs could be considered more accurate because they're intended for private use and are not designed to show a specific condition or phenomenon. (Before you object, I simply asked my friend to send me a picture of the weather in China that day, and mentioned nothing of pollution.) I will upload more China images upon request. {He never did}
3625
3626==================================================
3627
3628amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/20 09:34
3629
3630https://pastebin.com/ARPVHn4W
3631
3632I'll make a deal for you guys. Make a non biased page about this debate on the danball wiki, and I will leave this debate, on the condition that the page stays up. If it goes down, I will come back.
3633 
3634@TK
3635I never visit the EE boards.
3636 
3637@T@W
3638I'm not a child. I'm 25 ffs.
3639 
3640You're just contradicting yourself. You say that these cites are fogged to deah, yet you say they dont have to be. You're backtracking and covering for the hoax. That image of the french countryside shows just that: No pollution.
3641 
3642Clear beijing = no pollution. How could a city be clear some days and blind on others? Makes no sense.
3643 
3644==================================================
3645
3646Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/20 16:56
3647
3648@amazingdude
3649"Carbonated water is heavier than non carbonated water, so it sinks and fresh water takes its place, to get carbonfied and sink, and it continues."
3650
3651Again, this only happens in the shallow oceans near beaches near large carbon emissions. It still takes a decent amount of time for it to dilute to areas where the sea floor is 20+ ft below the ocean surface; not enough time to not negatively affect shellfish.
3652
3653"You cant fix stupid."
3654That is false. Stupid fixes itself.
3655
3656==================================================
3657
3658Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/21 03:18
3659
3660https://pastebin.com/CQJQHwAF
3661
3662@Amazingdude
3663I don't care whether or not you're 25, because you don't act that way regardless. A 25 normal year old would not have taken part in an such as this argument. They'd have won it convincingly even if they did. The only conclusions I can draw is either that you're either subpar for a 25 year old, have some kind of mental disorder or you are faking your age (or a combination of the above).
3664 
3665I have never said anything about 'cities being fogged to death'. I challenge you to find such a quote and present it against me. And look here at a comparison between the horizon in France and the horizon in China. http://imgur.com/a/yBqdb If you were wondering, the horizon isn't where the row of buildings stop. It's where the dark meets the slightly lighter sky.
3666 
3667"How could a city be clear some days and blind on others? Makes no sense."
3668You fail to recognise the most basic concept: that a year has 365 days and each day has 24 hours, and so forth. How can Beijing be 41 degrees one day and -27 on others? Oh yeah, the weather and seasons exists. Time passes. Conditions are constantly changing, hour upon hour. Wind, rain, dust, industrial output, government regulations all play into effect. If you take readings for pollution in China, you end up with a bell-shaped curve. Furthermore, the picture was taken on June 12th, 2012. The Dragonboat Festival, a major traditional Chinese festival, happened on the 13th. There are guidelines factories have to follow in the weeks around dates like these. Industrial output is decreased to make cities more attractive in preparation for the festival. In other words, the government was trying to reduce pollution to make China seem more attractive.
3669
3670==================================================
3671
3672amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/21 04:45
3673
3674@Vidkunssonn
3675So your saying that heavier water floats on lighter water if the ocean is too deep? Please stop making an ass out of yourself.
3676
3677@T&W
3678I am a mentally healthy 25 year old with an IQ of 113 (I actually had this tested and will submit proof upon request). I will also willing to prove my age. You dont want me to prove im 25 because you want to think im stupid so you can feel better about yourselves after being embarassed for falling into a government hoax.
3679
3680China was foggy that day. That crap in the air in the china picture is fog.
3681So pollution changes each day because some people choose not to drive some days and factories out out less output just because? HAHAHAHAHA. Alarmist covering his ass. Goverment was forced to reduce pollution by the western media who only wants to propagate their green energy crap.
3682
3683==================================================
3684
3685Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/21 06:19
3686
3687Are you taking the density of seawater into account for that? Because I've been googling for like an hour and everything that supports your claim uses freshwater. (Experiments using seawater are apparently so rare that they might not exist yet.)
3688Another issue is how *much* heavier than the sea is the carbonated saltwater? If it's a negligible difference then you can't really expect it to sink like a stone when exposed to the various waves and currents present in the wild. It'd get tossed and spread all over the place like slightly-heavier-than-air gasses do on land.
3689
3690The government hoax that as of yet doesn't have a logical motive? Yeah, we're absolute morons for not believing that the moment you claimed it.
3691
3692==================================================
3693
3694Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/21 06:44
3695
3696@amazingdude
3697Your IQ does not make you more mature, nor does it make you superior to me. Honestly, you're just embarrassing yourself now. I'm getting less and less convinced of the veracity of your claims the every single time you post. If you're willing to prove your age, just do it already. I have never said that I don't want you to prove it and you accusing me merely detracts any substance from your claim.
3698
3699'China was foggy that day'. Nope, it really wasn't. The picture was taken June 12th, at 4:06pm. The average temperature that day was approximately 30 degrees, with no precipitation. Optimal time and conditions for fog, of course.
3700
3701You say 'factories output less just because'. Can you even read? I gave the answer. I have read an entire booklet published by the government listing guidelines, regulations and quotas on this subject.
3702
3703Do you have any evidence for this 'cover up'? If western media is so powerful, why on earth does China manage to ban access to it inside China and limit reporting privileges, severely restricting a massive source of potential revenue? China doesn't give a toss to what the public in the West thinks, and it never has.
3704
3705By the way, I'm still awaiting your response to my challenge.
3706
3707==================================================
3708
3709Omega16					#MSw1YwXA 2017/07/21 10:35
3710
3711I seriously wonder why you guys keep going for the bait...
3712
3713==================================================
3714
3715Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/21 12:52
3716
3717@amazingdude
3718Nigga, I have an IQ of 152. Proof:
3719http://www.myiqtested.com/IQ-Report?x=sIQx3x6308389-3198639xs4hj2x1
3720Taken about 9 months ago.
3721
3722"So your saying that heavier water floats on lighter water if the ocean is too deep?"
3723No, that is not what I'm saying at all, you fucking dumbass. If your IQ really was 113 (probably lower, closer to the age you proclaim to be), you'd understand that I'm saying that the carbon doesn't dilute to the deep ocean, it stays in the shallows. YOU are the one making an ass out of yourself because you can't comprehend simple statements; and on top of that, every time it happens, you start spouting nonsense shit to try to push it off like it isn't your fault you're too stupid to understand it. Just stop it. We get it: you're too proud to admit the obvious stupidity you bare. 
3724
3725==================================================
3726
3727hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/21 14:15
3728
3729C02 is actually one of the more minor worries of pollution. The main reason coal isn't used as much anymore is partly to blame in 1952 when 12000 people were killed in a really bad smog that lasted five days. Sulfur dioxide is considered toxic and it smells bad. According to the NFPA 704, its a 3 on the health scale, meaning that short exposure could cause serious temporary or moderate residual injury. Carbon monoxide, another part of pollution from coal, is also a 3 on health as well as a 4 in flammability. If you add together sulfur dioxide and water you get a weak acid, however in the upper atmosphere where cloud formation occurs, it can become sulfur trioxide as UV catalyzes a reaction between sulfur dioxide and oxygen. This can go on to react with water vapor and become sulfuric acid, which is why sulfur dioxide can make acid rain occur. Oh, and apparently that comes from oil too. Thats why I prefer nuclear energy.
3730
3731==================================================
3732
3733amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/21 16:42
3734
3735https://pastebin.com/pt8vRQRY
3736
3737@TK
3738From what I can gather, carbonated water is denser than seawater enough to sink and cause convection to occur in the oceans, thouroughly mixing carbon into the ocean.
3739 
3740@T&W
3741Higher IQ = higher intelligence. IQ IS a measure of intelligence. Its no use to prove it because you fools still wont believe me. What challenge do you want me to complete?
3742 
374330 degrees is below freezing. It is actually better for fog as it forms better in colder weather, because water droplets will condense easier.
3744 
3745They produce less because their government makes them produce less. What more is there to this?
3746 
3747Because China knows that global warming is not real and are resisting temptaion from the media to fall under their control. In fact, they made it all up and sent it to the environmentards and they believe that crap and eventually it got to the western governments. They did this to make manufacturing less competetive. I'm so thankful that the president is smart enough to not only know the truth but why people believe the fake. This is why China bans western media, they dont want their people falling to the enviornmentards.
3748 
3749@omega
3750Its not bait, its debate, and yall fools are getting DEMOLISHED. End of story.
3751 
3752@Vidkunssonn
3753I had a psychological exam 16 years ago. My IQ was measured at 113, and I was 4 grade levels above average. My reading level was above the 11th grade. I was in third grade at the time. I have always been the smartest kid in class, and I graduated high school with a 3.8 in all AP classes. I took enviornmental science in college and biology in high school and got A's in both of them. I know damn right what I'm talking about. When I find the documents, I will show them and prove you wrong.
3754 
3755@Hotdogeater
3756SO2, CO, sulfuric acid, SO3 and all that crap is purely made up by enviornmentards to make coal seem like the devil. I'll just tell you this: What else can be used as a cheap, plentiful, reliable energy source for hundreds of years that helps tens of billions of people over the course of its use and is the reason we are alive? Exactly. Oil and coal are the best energy sources, and will continue to be for centuries to come. Nuclear and hydro are also decent options but not as useful as coal and oil. Dont even get me started on wind and solar, hahaha that is a joke.
3757
3758==================================================
3759
3760Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/21 17:01
3761
3762@amazingdude
3763"30 degrees is below freezing." Celsius, you dilhole.
3764
3765Also, proving that your IQ was 113 sixteen years ago will disprove my claim on carbon dilution in the ocean? You're also saying that acid rain is a myth.
3766TK, should we continue on with this ape?
3767
3768==================================================
3769
3770Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/21 18:52
3771
3772I didn't mention it before, but listening to people explain their conspiracy theories/superstitions is my 6th most socially accepted hobby. I consider it a subset of my folklore studies.
3773
3774So I'll probably stick around for at least another week or so- depending on whether he feels like divulging anymore on this mysterious world government that's actively working against it's own power acquisition.
3775
3776==================================================
3777
3778Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/21 22:32
3779
3780https://pastebin.com/JhwVHqkq
3781
3782@Amazingdude
3783Nowhere have I said that your IQ does not make you more intelligent. I say that your IQ does not make you more mature, more knowledgeable, better at debating or superior to me in this relevant discussion. If you were any of those things, this debate would not have happened, and if it did, you'd probably have won by now. I'm not sure if you're deliberately reading/interpreting my statements in the wrong way for your own advantage, being extremely arrogant, or you're just being stupid and do not know how to read. You really need to get your act together. Same for the 30 degrees statement. Beijing, in the middle of summer, at that temperature? Tf is wrong with your logical processes?
3784 
3785'They produce less because their government makes them produce less. What more is there to this?'
3786That is literally what I have been saying. What is your point?
3787 
3788So now you're saying that China has power over western media, rather than what you said last time, that the western media exerts control over China. Are you sure you're not making this up as you go along? Do you have any evidence at all for what you're saying? Scientists have been producing theories about global warming and climate change since the 1940s. China, in 1940, barely existed as an entity. Theories relating to global warming caught on in the 1980s. It wasn't only until the early 2000s when China began its rapid ascension. China only fully erected its firewall, as we know it today, in 2005. A quarter of a century passed between global warming becoming mainstream and China fully censoring the internet. Nobody in 1940, or even 1990, could even comprehend how successful China would become today.  In other words, the dates do not make sense. Your argument is only valid if the Chinese had a centuries-old masterplan for world domination that somehow perfectly predicted the Allied victory in WWII, the Communist victory in China, the onset of the Cold War, the collapse of the USSR and everything that happened in between.
3789
3790==================================================
3791
3792amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/22 14:34
3793
3794@T&W
3795You're the one being arrogant making shit up instead of researching facts. I won 7 weeks ago, after debunking NASA. That was the last nail in the coffin for this debate.
3796
3797Yes. YOU said beijing is 30 degrees in the summer. Thats below freezing, making fog a very decent possibility. The government tells them to produce less to tell the western media that they reduced pollution that wasnt even there. Once again, going full TK by contradicting yourself millions of time. Get a grasp on debate instead of just resorting to "muh conspiracy lizard people"
3798
3799==================================================
3800
3801Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/22 17:01
3802
3803When did I contradict myself? Are you talking about when I entertained the idea of a world government faking out the planet for a quick buck and then explained to you exactly why no existing empire would ever do that outside of a Marvel comic? Or was it something else?
3804
3805==================================================
3806
3807Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/23 01:10
3808
3809At this point, he's just making up events about this debate that never really happened just so he doesn't have to counter-argue against us. He still doesn't even know about the existence of Celsius and is trying to use that false reality without it against T&W. Saddening that there are these kinds of people in our society.
3810
3811==================================================
3812
3813amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/23 04:33
3814
3815@TK
3816When you said theres a giant conspiracy, then said there wasnt.
3817
3818@Vidkunssonn
3819It did happen. I do know celsius, but T&W didnt specify which scale so I assumed Fahrenheit. YOU are the saddening person in society.
3820
3821==================================================
3822
3823Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/23 05:48
3824
3825"The mark of an intelligent man is the ability to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
3826That's not a contradiction, that's getting the full picture that you're trying to sell so I can dismantle the idea as efficiently as possible.
3827
3828==================================================
3829
3830Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/23 05:59
3831
3832@Amazingdude
3833You should have known perfectly well it was in Celsius. China uses Celsius, as does almost every other country in the world. If you had any logic, geographical or general knowledge at all you'd have known I must have been talking about Celsius. Vidkunssonn even explicitly said it was Celsius.
3834
3835"Once again, going full TK by contradicting yourself millions of time. Get a grasp on debate instead of just resorting to "muh conspiracy lizard people"
3836
3837"You're the one being arrogant making shit up instead of researching facts. I won 7 weeks ago, after debunking NASA. That was the last nail in the coffin for this debate."
3838
3839Can you actually highlight specifically where I've done that instead of making accusations? Knowing what you're trying to say might help move the debate forwards. 
3840
3841==================================================
3842
3843001						#6k5YbvYF 2017/07/23 09:18
3844
3845watch AD defend the KKK!
3846
3847reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/6oxzbe/unpopular_opinion_thread/dkl2uto/
3848
3849==================================================
3850
3851OmegaPirate				#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/23 10:32
3852
3853The Ku Klux Klan was why World War II existed.
3854Just edit a few minor things and you might get the picture here.
3855
3856==================================================
3857
3858skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/23 12:19
3859
3860If "amazing"dude is 25, why is he always posting in /r/teenagers? 
3861
3862==================================================
3863
3864amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/23 14:54
3865
3866https://pastebin.com/SAKeGLB1
3867
3868@T&W
3869 
3870How should I know they use celsius by default? I'm not chinese.
3871 
3872This {is when you contradict yourself}. "So now you're saying that China has power over western media, rather than what you said last time, that the western media exerts control over China. Are you sure you're not making this up as you go along? Do you have any evidence at all for what you're saying? Scientists have been producing theories about global warming and climate change since the 1940s. China, in 1940, barely existed as an entity. Theories relating to global warming caught on in the 1980s. It wasn't only until the early 2000s when China began its rapid ascension. China only fully erected its firewall, as we know it today, in 2005. A quarter of a century passed between global warming becoming mainstream and China fully censoring the internet. Nobody in 1940, or even 1990, could even comprehend how successful China would become today.  In other words, the dates do not make sense. Your argument is only valid if the Chinese had a centuries-old masterplan for world domination that somehow perfectly predicted the Allied victory in WWII, the Communist victory in China, the onset of the Cold War, the collapse of the USSR and everything that happened in between."
3873 
3874@001
3875Thats not me, IDK why everyone thinks thats me. Also if you read the rest of that thread and his comments you can clearly tell that killa-byte is too stupid to be me. Just read that entire thread and tell me thats me. lol.
3876 
3877@Omega
3878Your getting the KKK and the nazis mixed up.
3879 
3880@Skyk
3881I dont post in that subreddit. That isnt my reddit account.
3882
3883==================================================
3884
3885Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/23 15:24
3886
3887There are literally five countries that still officially use Fahrenheit and the others are all tiny islands.
3888
3889==================================================
3890
3891Omega16					#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/24 00:30
3892
3893@AD
3894I did say edit a few things, didn't I?
3895Replace the KKK with Nazis.
3896Replace blacks with Jews.
3897Alter the KKK symbol some.
3898
3899To be fair, they both do the same thing, and both their morals of getting rid of their minority enemies were based off of Jackson telling the Supreme Court to go fuck itself.
3900
3901==================================================
3902
3903skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/24 02:09
3904
3905AD, do you really expect us to believe that you just happen to have the *exact* same ideas as Killa-Byte when it comes to climate change, down to suggesting Siberian colonies within the same two days?
3906
3907==================================================
3908
3909amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/24 05:53
3910
3911@TK
3912Fahrenheit is the better scale for everyday use and weather. Fahrenheit is based off of the lowest and hottest temperature in a certain town, but celsius is based on water. Why use a scale meant for water to measure air temps?
3913
3914@Omega
3915Finally at least someone is right.
3916
3917@Skyk
3918More and more people are waking up to the truth about climate change, and killa-byte is one of them. Also, can you prove we both suggested colonizing siberia within 2 days? Show posts.
3919
3920==================================================
3921
3922Tyne and wear			#5GBDuOyX 2017/07/24 06:27
3923
3924@Amazingdude
3925Ways of measuring temperatures, we can save for another debate. If you want, we can discuss it now. What TK is saying is that the majority of the world uses Celsius. You should know this and therefore Celsius is what you should expect when somebody talks about temperature, especially on an international comment board using information about a scientific topic. Anyway, logically, do you really think that Beijing would be that cold in June?
3926I still don't understand what you're getting at. You haven't even said where I have supposedly contradicted myself or resorted to anything remotely like 'conspiracy lizard people'. You've just copy and pasted what I have previously said. 
3927
3928==================================================
3929
3930skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/24 06:40
3931
3932https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/6hq720/why_arent_people_talking_about_colonizing_siberia/
3933"People complain that some places are gonna flood, yet a warmer climate would make places like Canada and Siberia more habitable. Why arent people talking about this as a way to deal with climate change?"
3934
3935This was posted June 16th, one day after you posted the following on this comment board:
3936"While some areas of the world may be getting too hot, like Africa and south Asia, a much larger area is becoming more habitable, like siberia and Canada."
3937
3938==================================================
3939
3940herecomesmichael		#68cDLTHg 2017/07/25 00:19
3941
3942are you STILL arguing? come on, it's not that hard to just agree to disagree.
3943
3944==================================================
3945
3946Scythertom				#KB7dKrJB 2017/07/25 01:19
3947
3948Hey guys, will you please hurry up and get to the "ways of measuring temperature" debate? Because I have VERY strong opinions on this irrelevant topic. Thank you, have a nice day y'all.
3949
3950==================================================
3951
3952amazingdude				#N1hn3TpZ 2017/07/25 03:14
3953
3954Sorry guys I'm having personal problems atm but I will be able to debate soon.
3955
3956==================================================
3957
3958Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/25 04:43
3959
3960I bet that if we use his own "Oh, you wanna take a break? You lose the debate" tactic on him he's gonna lose his shit.
3961
3962Also,
3963https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/6dnx07/g7_leaders_blame_trump_for_failure_to_reach/di4p1zg/
3964This is almost word-for-word one of the things you've posted to Pastebin a while back:
3965
3966https://pastebin.com/T9bdpqNR
3967Don't even try to tell us that isn't you anymore.
3968
3969==================================================
3970
3971OmegaPirate				#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/25 06:34
3972
3973He's still gonna respond for debating. I know him a bit better than most others here.
3974
3975It's gonna keep going. Like playing chess with a pigeon. Or 4chan raiding random sites. Or a friend of mine petitioning to change Auschwitz to Jewrassic Park.
3976And in such cases, the result is the same. They'll get bored eventually.
3977
3978==================================================
3979
3980Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/25 08:33
3981
3982For a moment there I thought that was a new pastebin because he never changes the title on any of them.
3983
3984@Scythertom
3985Kelvin is best. Negative temperatures are an abomination.
3986
3987==================================================
3988
3989skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/25 09:05
3990
3991TK you're absolutely right about Kelvin. I once brought up Kelvin in an argument about F vs C, and was forcibly removed from the room and locked outside.
3992
3993==================================================
3994
3995Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/25 09:16
3996
3997Stay tuned. Scy's going to show us a pretty picture.
3998
3999Aren't we forgetting Rankine? And also Rømer, Réaumur, Newton, and Delisle. It's wonderful to learn new things on Wikipedia.
4000
4001==================================================
4002
4003Omega16					#aB0DMOlH 2017/07/25 13:06
4004
4005It's funny how Wikipedia is considered terrible and yet it has more info than anyone else could even imagine. Only problem is anonymity, but even then, it's getting cracked down more often there these days.
4006
4007==================================================
4008
4009Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/25 14:04
4010
4011https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/List
4012Some of these descriptions are hilarious, like there's seriously a guy out there who spends their days adding ceiling fans to random articles.
4013
4014==================================================
4015
4016Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/26 00:10
4017
4018I fully support the one guy who goes to every article he can and adds "And them's the facts" at the end of every one of them.
4019
4020==================================================
4021
4022Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/26 22:48
4023
402417 degrees Newton is defined to be the hottest temperature for which bath water is bearable when one sticks their hand in it and doesn't move it around.
4025
4026==================================================
4027
4028IFIDIE					#ZgslTFIx 2017/07/28 06:40
4029
4030Guys why are you all talking about science
4031
4032==================================================
4033
4034hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/28 08:13
4035
4036because the entire debate was centered around a science topic.
4037
4038==================================================
4039
4040Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/28 11:08
4041
4042Hey, you guys want to do the occasional 1000 post snapshot pastebin on the CBs? It's a shame that old posts get deleted or just become unretrievable. Earth Editor made one a while back, but he's nowhere to be found, surprisingly.
4043
4044==================================================
4045
4046skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/28 11:29
4047
4048What form would you want? A copy-paste of all the messages directly, or the page's source?
4049Here's either:
4050https://pastebin.com/SrDv1dS1
4051https://pastebin.com/n86aun68
4052
4053==================================================
4054
4055Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/07/28 13:56
4056
4057Oh wow, nothing that puts everything on one line, please. XD
4058Other than needing an extra enter between comments to enhance readability (which is understandably tedious), the first one looks good.
4059
4060==================================================
4061
4062amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/29 09:28
4063
4064https://pastebin.com/pPETxLq5
4065
4066Alright guys, I'm back. I'm sorry.
4067
4068@T&W, Scythertom
4069Let's do it now, then. Kelvin is best for science, Fahrenheit is best for weather, Celsius is best for liquids. Optimally, I think we all should use a 0-500 scale where 0 is absolute 0 and 500 is melting point of water. Its more precise, and eventually when K goes mainstream, future generations will be like "WHAT were they thinking! Water melts at 273.15K?", much like people shit on Fahrenheit. Kelvin is the best we have so far, it works, and I think we should all be using kelvin TBH. One scale for everything, not a different scale for common use (C) and another for science (K)
4070
4071@Skyk
4072Coincidence.
4073
4074@Vidkunssonn
4075I wont, as long as you PROMISE to come back. My case was unexpected and out of my hands. I apologize for the delay.
4076
4077Coincidence. We both have the same ideas, so of course our responses will be similar. I'll say it again: Killa-Byte is NOT me.
4078
4079@Omega
4080Thank you for telling everyone. No, I won't get bored.
4081
4082Wikipedia is not technically credible because anyone can edit it. I put a fake fact in the Windows XP article a few months back and its still there. It is quite reliable for basic knowledge, however, just not for research.
4083
4084@TK
4085I agree with you on Kelvin
4086
4087@Draco
4088Huh, TIL. Most of those are useless however.
4089
4090I'm doing backups of this myself. I cached the 1000 comments page 2 weeks ago. One of these days I'll make a neat pastebin. {Completed 2017-09-15}
4091
4092==================================================
4093
4094Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/29 10:26
4095
4096I'd use the word "influence" more than "cause" actually. Cause implies that humans are the only source of change, but the GCC argument has always been that we're just one major factor out of hundreds with varying degrees of magnitude. It's chaos theory, you can't introduce a variable like whether or not there's an industrialized civilization making changes to the atmosphere and expect there to be no changes to average weather patterns in the atmosphere.
4097
4098==================================================
4099
4100Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/29 10:57
4101
4102No, no, no. "Similar" is an understatement. Word-for-word copy-and-paste paragraph usage is not just "similar".
4103
4104"I think we all should use a 0-500 scale where 0 is absolute 0 and 500 is melting point of water."
4105That will put the boiling point of water at 683.049606443.
4106
4107Plus, converting the entire planet to the new system and getting used to it will take at least a decade. First, you have to convert every recorded temperature in history (the boiling point of Iron, the temperature of Pluto in the winter, etc.) from C or K or F to the new system. Then, you have to design or re-calibrate all the instruments that measure temperature to the new system (recall all thermometers on the planet to be destroyed/re-calibrated, then distribute the new thermometers and expect people to understand the new scale). Then, you have to re-calibrate every tool that is made to GET things to a certain temperature (ovens, refrigerators, etc.) to the new scale. THEN, you have to get everyone used to it.
4108
4109New System: Water boils at 683.05°, the average human body internal temperature is 567.73°, the core of the earth is approx. 11483°
4110VS
4111Celsius: Water boils at 100°, the average human body internal temperature is 37°, the core of the earth is approx. 6000°
4112
4113The idea is good in mind, but the reality is absurd. 
4114
4115==================================================
4116
4117Scythertom				#Fc8R9h2z 2017/07/29 11:02
4118
4119>Let's do it now, then. Kelvin is best for science, Fahrenheit is best for weather, Celsius is best for liquids
4120Basically what I was going to say
4121
4122==================================================
4123
4124amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/29 11:48
4125
4126@TK
4127The influence civilization has on the global climate is about the same as taking a shit in the ocean pollutes it: Nothing.
4128
4129@Vidkunssonn
4130We're arguing the same perspective, of course its gonna use the same wording. Who knows, killa-byte might browse this forum and steal all my arguments. I dont mind, hes spreading the truth.
4131
4132Well, you just destroyed my temperature claim. I have nothing left to support it. You win. However I still think Kelvin is superior, and we should move to Kelvin. Wouldnt be as hard as transitioning to 0-500 because Kelvin is already well established, and it uses the same units as Celsius. I dont have as strong feelings about this as climate change however, and never really thought about it. I do believe we would all be on one temperature scale for everything.
4133
4134@Scythertom
4135Great minds think alike.
4136
4137==================================================
4138
4139skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/07/29 12:08
4140
4141I'm sorry AD, but do you genuinely expect anyone to believe you and Killa-Byte aren't the same person? Both accounts use the exact same wording to make the exact same points, and share at least one subreddit, according to what you've said. At this point, the burden of proof is solidly on you, and if you really aren't KB, the only way I can think of you proving that would be to tell us your actual Reddit account name.
4142
4143==================================================
4144
4145Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/29 12:23
4146
4147I'm gonna laugh my ass off if he creates a new Reddit account for that.
4148
4149==================================================
4150
4151Jeff					#Rtf4XTMh 2017/07/29 12:48
4152
4153Amazingdude doesnt care about the enviornment? heh. What about the time they flooded a canyon with native american remains artivacts in it to make a lake?
4154
4155==================================================
4156
4157Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/31 02:12
4158
4159That argument might have made more sense if we weren't currently sitting at 2/3 of the total projected human population that Earth can support. The atmosphere is pretty huge itself, but we're going to be hitting the limits of how much we can safely strain it fairly quickly.
4160
4161==================================================
4162
4163hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/31 07:11
4164
4165Oh yay the arguments back. This board was sorta bland without it.
4166
4167==================================================
4168
4169amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/07/31 10:01
4170
4171@Skyk
4172I dont use Reddit though, I dont have an account. Also, me and killa-byte have the same beliefs, so obviously we're going to use the same words to express them. Who knows, maybe he browses this forum and rips my arguments to spread the truth. Fine with me.
4173
4174@TK
4175Earth can theoretically support 40+ billion people. If all the plants on earth died, we'd have 2500 years of O2 left. The earth is just fine, and will be for a while.
4176
4177==================================================
4178
4179hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/07/31 11:57
4180
4181If all plants on earth died we would all starve to death.
4182
4183==================================================
4184
4185Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/07/31 13:18
4186
4187https://www.livescience.com/16493-people-planet-earth-support.html
4188https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130404072923.htm
4189
4190What source do you have for your 40 billion statistic? I can't find any more optimistic than 16 billion.
4191
4192==================================================
4193
4194Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/07/31 22:59
4195
4196We have too many people as it is, there's no way in hell I'd allow 40 billion people on this planet.
4197
4198==================================================
4199
4200Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/01 00:24
4201
4202Ooh, this reminds me of a discussion question I came up with a while ago.
4203If we face *severe* overpopulation, would it be a good decision to legalize a mass murder event (so we would get rid of major criminals, homeless people, etc.), or should we keep it going despite everyone's suffering?
4204
4205Personally I would normally discourage even the death penalty, but it's tricky when the world would benefit greatly from it. Plus, a large chunk of the population would probably die from an inevitable disease or something.
4206
4207==================================================
4208
4209skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/01 01:28
4210
4211I have to imagine that mass murder is worse than even the worst case scenario for overpopulation.
4212
4213==================================================
4214
4215Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/01 03:13
4216
4217Yeah, no. Any solution that actively encourages violent anarchy or a might-makes-right rhetoric is just going to result in a massive crime wave from the sheer desperation that will be felt for generations afterward. Overpopulation by definition would peter out after 1 because dead people don't cause nearly as many problems as living people with no faith in the social contract- unless the problem was actually some event limiting available farmland like the Dustbowl Effect in the 30s.
4218
4219==================================================
4220
4221Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/01 03:19
4222
4223Plus, there's similar options that don't just jump straight to murder, like China's child limit or offering a tax cut to those that volunteer to be sterilized.
4224
4225==================================================
4226
4227amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/01 03:54
4228
4229https://pastebin.com/tTH2SbAb
4230
4231@Vidkunssonn
4232We dont have too many people. *looks at Canada and Russia*
4233 
4234@Dracobot
4235I think we should go full north korea on prisoners and execute them. If we have to kill some people, why not kill the worthless crapsacks in prison?
4236 
4237@skyk
4238Overpopulation wont get really bad until 60-70 billion, dont worry about it. Earth can only support 40 billion, but even then, thats living at first world country standards.
4239 
4240@TK
4241Sterilizing the criminals and ones with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea. If we have so many people, we should focus on getting rid of genetic diseases. This may sound hitler-like but thats because he took it WAY too far and fucked it up for any future use. Eugenics can be very good for a population and if it is used correctly. Imagine not having to care for people with genetic disorders. That will take a massive burden off of society, and our healthcare system.
4242
4243==================================================
4244
4245Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/01 05:15
4246
4247https://pastebin.com/6iJwhTxc
4248
4249We've already discussed this: Russia and Canada is too fucking cold to force people to live there; that's why there used to be a capital punishment in Russia where you're sent to Siberia so you'll freeze to death. You take 100,000 random people from anywhere it isn't cold (let's use India for an example: the most heavily populated country on the planet), they're all gonna fucking die. The only way you can possibly hope to spread the populations of earth AND KEEP THEM ALIVE is to slowly move everyone northward; that means sending people from southern Russia to northern Russia, people in Mongolia and other nearby countries to southern Russia, people in southern Asia to the other countries... It's not gonna work. You're not gonna spread 7 billion people.
4250 
4251"Sterilizing the criminals and ones with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea. If we have so many people, we should focus on getting rid of genetic diseases. This may sound Hitler-like but that's because he took it WAY too far and fucked it up for any future use. Eugenics can be very good for a population and if it is used correctly. Imagine not having to care for people with genetic disorders. That will take a massive burden off of society, and our healthcare system."
4252
4253Are you serious? Are you really suggesting that we kill off everybody on the planet who has a genetic disorder? Do YOU have a genetic disorder and just not know about it, because you're starting to sound like a psychopath with all of these psychotic plans of yours that will end with massive casualties. The reason people are trying to abolish the death penalty is because there are still people who care about the person that's going to be killed: family members, friends, people they've helped within their lifetime; and you're suggesting we should do that to everybody on the planet who was born with something they can't control or change and call it "a massive burden" that's been lifted? Are they not human too? Do they not also have family and friends to care about them? Let me kill YOUR family and then try to tell me I lifted a burden from you. You're fucking nuts.
4254
4255==================================================
4256
4257skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/01 05:53
4258
4259AD, I've seen posts by Killa-Byte that have almost the exact same phrasing as posts you've done here over a month after.
4260Compare this:
4261https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/comments/6aoohw/anyone_else_still_believe_in_global_warming/dhg8dlu/
4262to your comment that was posted June 15th when you said "More CO2 = more plants. More plants = more food."
4263 
4264And please don't try to say that people with the same views would somehow also use identical phrasing, unless you really believe every person who believes in climate change naturally speaks exactly like Al Gore or something?
4265
4266==================================================
4267
4268amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/01 07:09
4269
4270https://pastebin.com/t828pwuw
4271
4272@Vidkunssonn
4273With a warming climate, those areas will become more habitable. Explain Murmansk, Longyearbyen, etc. all those arctic cities, and how they survive. People can live in the arctic.
4274 
4275If we do become overpopulated and have to kill off people, who would you kill, other than me and all the "climate deniers"? I'm not saying we should do it now, but if theres too many people on the planet, would you rather kill a serial killer, or an innocent person? Death is always sad but its good for society as a whole if we can eliminate serial killers and rapists and all those thugs from society. The process is sad, but the result is better.
4276 
4277Answer this: Do you want a population without genetic disorders? The only way we can get there is to ensure that people with them do not spread them to future people. Everybody has people who care about them, but that doesnt mean that society as a whole is better with them. I may not contribute to society, but at least I dont drain its resources. Perhaps a one child policy on people with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea.
4278 
4279Look, I'm not saying I want them dead. I'm saying that they should be the first to go if we ever face an overpopulation crisis, which probably wont happen because world population will level off at around 10b, and earth can support 40b. What would you do in an overpopulation crisis?
4280 
4281@Skyk
4282You all spew the same worded crap at me when you respond. I cant tell who wrote what. Likewise, you cant tell if me or killa-byte wrote anything. Same ideas, same wording. Like I said, it is likely that killa-byte browses this forum and rips my arguments.
4283
4284==================================================
4285
4286Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/01 07:44
4287
4288"With a warming climate"
4289What happened to all those pastes where you tried to claim that the earth was actually COOLING? As for Murmansk and Longyearbyen and other arctic cities, people are able to survive those conditions because that's the conditions they've lived in since they were born. You take anybody who's lived there their whole lives and deport them to Cuba, they will want to kill themselves because they're too used to the cold. It's easier to get used to warm climates than it is cold climates.
4290
4291"Do you want a population without genetic disorders? The only way we can get there is to ensure that people with them do not spread them to future people."
4292Most harmful and common genetic disorders aren't passed on through offspring, they're developed during conception or sometime during life. For example, Down's Syndrome: it exists because a baby was conceived with one too many chromosomes; Schizophrenia: not something you could pass on to your children.
4293
4294"Perhaps a one child policy on people with genetic disorders might not be a bad idea."
4295No, that IS better than killing them because of it. Not like it'll decrease the percentage of people with genetic disorders, though. Kill everyone on the planet who has Down's Syndrome, and in 30 years, the number of people with Down's Syndrome will be back to normal.
4296
4297==================================================
4298
4299amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/01 10:44
4300
4301@Vidkunssonn
4302I DID state many times that the earth IS warming, however not fast enough to hurt the earth, not manmade. Research has shown that people are very great at adapting to new climates, so that probably wont be an issue. Also, I'm moving to Arizona in 3 year, so I'll tell you what its like changing climate.
4303
4304I got inherited and genetic disorders mixed up. I meant disorders that ARE passed down from parent to child. With no child to pass the inherited disorder too, it will eventually die out.
4305
4306==================================================
4307
4308Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/01 13:19
4309
4310In one sense, amazingdude has a point. Negative inherited disorders are more detrimental than beneficial to society, and *one* permanent solution to this problem would be to kill them. If we were some kind of combination of heartless and understanding, this would work out fine. BUT we aren't. In the long run, it's good. In the short run, it's really really bad. People with these disorders are, obviously, people too and should never be subject to any kind of discrimination based on something they couldn't help. Since this should be considered unacceptable, we can only search for another solution. TK's suggestion for a one-child policy is a step in the right direction (from murder), but it is still discrimination. Even the tax cut suggestion would have to be targeted specifically toward those who have inherited diseases, which is technically discrimination (I guess it's better, and there are types of things like this already in place, but people have a problem with them anyway). I don't want to say that discrimination is ever the best answer, but I'm afraid some form of it might be.
4311
4312Also, even criminals are people that need rehabilitation instead of punishment, mainly because previous factors that caused them to do what they did are often set aside to punish the doer (just want to get this out there).
4313
4314==================================================
4315
4316amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/02 13:27
4317
4318@Draco
4319You're right. Nobody wants to do anything to people, but something should be done for the greater society. To have a child knowing it will have a serious inherited disorder is like purposly infecting people with AIDS. Just like how it is illegal to purposfully spread AIDS, it should be illegal to have chidren if you have a severe inherited disorder, because you are purposly spreading disease. Its not fair for the child., and the line needs to be drawn somewhere. Perhaps genetic engineering can weed out these disorders, but any law for their reproduction would be discriminatory by nature.
4320
4321I disagree that criminals need rehabilitation. I think criminals should be punished harshly. Maybe not things like speeding or drug possesion, but murderers, rapists, etc. need to be put to death. I do believe there are some things that just cant be fixed. Prison acts as a deterrent, punishment, and a holding place for dangerous people. Our system is not perfect, you shouldnt be thrown in prison for doing drugs, but some people really belong there.
4322
4323If someone came into your hourse and threw acid all over you and your family, permanently damaging or killing them, would you want them to be back out on the streets in 10 years, or would you want him thrown in a cell to rot for life and burned alive? If somebody is just going to get therapy for 10 years and be back out, what would deter them from committing crime? Compare that to the possibility of life in prison.
4324
4325==================================================
4326
4327Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/02 14:55
4328
4329Alternatively, just remove the adverse gene from the embryo with CRISPR and don't decide who can reproduce and who can't. I know I'm the one that brought up the child limitation, but that's just because that's a method that's actually been tried- I was leaning towards incentivizing sterility.
4330
4331==================================================
4332
4333amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/02 15:23
4334
4335@TK
4336That is a totally acceptable solution, and I'd rather this than the alternative. By the time we reach 40b people we should have the technology to do so. Also I think we should invest more into stem cell research and genetic engineering. The good that comes from this far outweighs the bad.
4337
4338==================================================
4339
4340Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/02 20:00
4341
4342We have it now, human testing started a few months ago.
4343
4344==================================================
4345
4346Disappointment			#5pWYfzbu 2017/08/02 23:48
4347
4348All of the last 1000 comments deserve a long and crestfallen facepalm.
4349
4350==================================================
4351
4352Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/03 00:12
4353
4354@amazingdude
4355https://pastebin.com/XhAQwBnN
4356
4357[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] PASTE REMOVED [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
4358
4359==================================================
4360
4361amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/03 03:11
4362
4363@TK
4364Thats great news, something I'm excited to see.
4365
4366@Disppointment
4367Yes, at the collective stupidity of everyone but me.
4368
4369@Draco
4370You really think you can help murderers? Unless its in self defense, somebody who commits a murder is probably mentally unstable enough to not be fixable. If someone killed somebody just because, they have proven themselves unable to handle being in society, and should be kept away from others. Obviously there are some justifiable cases such as self defense and what you said, and they do sometimes get fucked over by the system. Sure, some people learn, but that doesnt mean they are safe to release to society. While some murders you can reason with, most are too fucked up in the head to understand. They should not be set free. Someone who already murdered is way more likely to murder again than an average person, and should be kept away. Like I said, the threat of life in prison is enough to deter most people from commiting serious crimes. You just cant fix some people, and if you do, they are still dangerous.
4371
4372==================================================
4373
4374jon						#0SQnQpav 2017/08/05 08:41
4375
4376i.imgur.com/xDfNQAS.jpg <--- found on AD's reddit
4377
4378[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] IMAGE REMOVED [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
4379
4380{Guy with sunglasses holding an American flag}
4381
4382==================================================
4383
4384Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/05 09:56
4385
4386Where the fuck is his feet??
4387
4388==================================================
4389
4390amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/05 10:56
4391
4392@Hotdogeater
4393I miss flash games. They were simple, quick, and easy. Nowadays you have to download an add ridden, p2w app.
4394
4395@Jon
4396That white trash redneck is clearly not me. NO, I am NOT KILLA-BYTE. How clear do I have to make it?
4397
4398@Vidkunssonn
4399Looks photoshopped out.
4400
4401==================================================
4402
4403KillaByte				#ZLVftGAW 2017/08/05 15:47
4404
4405Password for the paste is: "climate"
4406Link to paste is on my Reddit account.
4407
4408https://www.reddit.com/r/DanBall/comments/6rqe3f/the_paste/
4409https://defuse.ca/b/ZdL92lJG
4410
4411[!] [!] [!] [!] [!] PASTE REMOVED [!] [!] [!] [!] [!]
4412
4413==================================================
4414
4415amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/06 04:04
4416
4417@Everyone
4418Killabyte has spoken. We are NOT the same people.
4419Can we resume the debate now?
4420
4421==================================================
4422
4423Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/06 05:35
4424
4425@amazingdude
4426Nice try, Killa-byte.
4427
4428==================================================
4429
44309132					#iabR3RgQ 2017/08/06 06:40
4431
4432Could we stop debating? This is a game, not a press-conference. GO TO A CHAT ROOM FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!
4433
4434==================================================
4435
4436amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/06 06:46
4437
4438@Vidkunssonn
4439What more can I do to prove we are not the same person?
4440
4441==================================================
4442
4443amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/07 07:36
4444
4445all you guys are fucking LOSERS! You LOST THE DEBATE!!! YOU GIVE UP!!!
4446I FUCKING HAD IT FROM THE BEGININNING! THE WORLD IS FINALLY WAKING UP TO THE TRUTH ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE!!!
4447YALL A BUNCH OF IDIOTS WHO BLINDLY EAT UP WHAT THE MEDIA FEEDS YOU!!!!
4448
4449==================================================
4450
4451hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/07 08:40
4452
4453You cant reply if you dont give us something to reply to.
4454
4455Also, a new study says that even if we shut off all our greenhouse emissions right now, which obviously wont happen, we would hit about 1.3C above preindustrial levels by 2100. However, we are most likely to be at 2C to 5C above preindustrial levels by then.
4456
4457==================================================
4458
4459Poofle					#KnbKVy9B 2017/08/07 09:08
4460
4461Oh, boy...
4462The dude's finally gone off the deep end...
4463
4464==================================================
4465
4466Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/07 10:45
4467
4468We can't even agree on what constitutes as scientific proof- so nobody "wins". Best to just drop that boring topic entirely until we can agree on a scientific authority to source. Why are you obsessed with winning anyway? Are you getting paid or something? 
4469
4470==================================================
4471
4472Jackphantomhive			#RiRWL6l3 2017/08/07 10:58
4473
4474Lol. I honestly am happy this debate was over. I was going to order a chatroom but since everyone is over it I won't. HOPEFULLY, someone calls an asylum to come and pick up amazing dude cause i think he's lost a few screws.
4475
4476Oh and if you REALLY want something to debate over, how about pollution in the US that's a good topic. Or how teachers are not getting paid enough.
4477
4478==================================================
4479
4480hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/07 11:15
4481
4482Or if the US killing nearly 200000 people and obliterating two cities at the end of WWII was justified
4483
4484==================================================
4485
4486amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/07 11:33
4487
4488https://pastebin.com/y6sef38Q
4489
4490@Hotdogeater
44912017/08/03 03:11
4492 
4493False alarmist propaganda. We are only going to warm 1C this century, regardless of wat we do.
4494 
4495@Poofle
4496Sometimes thats what it takes to get fools to listen
4497 
4498@TK
4499Its fun to argue.
4500 
4501@Jack
4502Its not over. Also, I am mentaly sane. If anything, everyone else on here needs to go to asylum. Pollution is a non-issue.
4503 
4504@Hotdogeater
4505It was horrible, but would you have rather had an invasion of Japan which would have killed milions? I believe the bombs were justified to prevent more deaths. This is a case where the grass is greenr on the other side. What if we didnt drop the bombs, and we invaded Japan? We would be arguing why they SHOULD have dropped the bombs instead of invade the country, which destroy more, and killed even more people.
4506 
4507It was bad, but it had to be done to prevent even more destruction.
4508
4509==================================================
4510
4511Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/07 23:45
4512
4513@amazingdude
4514Insisting that somebody has to "win" takes the fun out of arguing.
4515
4516@hotdogeater
4517Conventional warfare had proven even worse; the Imperial government was spreading propaganda that the US was committing warcrimes everywhere they occupied, so whole populations would commit suicide to save themselves before they even saw GIs up close.
4518
4519==================================================
4520
4521hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/08 06:38
4522
4523At least we didn't have to deal with a nuclear attack at any other point in history. Also, we're already 1C above pre-industrial levels.
4524
4525Had the bombs not been dropped, Japan would probably have been in a similar situation to Korea.
4526
4527==================================================
4528
4529Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/08 12:17
4530
4531@amazingdude
4532Well, the idea is to prevent the murders from happening by giving as many people as possible a decent childhood and education where they not only learn laws and ethics but actually understand them and why they're there, something a lot of parents choose not or are unable to provide for the next generation. Personally, I believe that this is one of the most common causes for crime in general. At least try to rehabilitate them now while we prepare further generations. Then, assuming it works well, we won't have to execute nor rehabilitate many criminals because they won't commit the crimes in the first place.
4533
4534I recognize that you have the eugenics approach with criminals, as previously discussed: kill off the bad to promote good, unless this is where the conversation branched off of and this side-note is useless. In which case, forget I said it; my memory isn't that great.
4535And yes, this is a bit late because I was away.
4536
4537==================================================
4538
4539amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/10 02:51
4540
4541@Hotdogeater
4542Yes we are 1C above 1900 levels, and we may warm 1C more in the next 100 years. Nature.
4543
4544@Draco
4545More criminals will appear. Rehabilitation does not work. Crime might go down, but not by much to be noticable. Sombody fucked up enough to commit those crimes are probably unfixable and cant understand why they're there, so why even try? Bring back public executions. That'll scare them.
4546
4547==================================================
4548
4549hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/10 06:09
4550
4551@ad
4552We could warm between 1C and 3C. Either way, ice (specifically on-land ice) is gonna melt and raise sea levels. Dont worry about the ice in the ocean, that doesn't make a difference when it melts. Also, theres gonna be more energy for storms and especially hurricanes.
4553
4554More energy for storms usually means they get bigger and worse, and rapidly growing hurricanes usually aren't a good thing, especially if they're moving towards a major city. Rapidly growing hurricanes are especially bad because if they're at cat 1 in the evening and cat 5 by morning, that city probably wasn't prepared for a cat 5 and significant casualties could be expected from that. Also, we just hit another subject! R.I.P peace in the comment board Aug 6- Aug 7
4555
4556==================================================
4557
4558Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/10 09:43
4559
4560@amazingdude
4561Right now we have sane criminals with troubled pasts and mentally unstable criminals. We should have just mentally unstable criminals under the new system. That's a win. Unless the vast majority of today's criminals should actually be considered "insane", there would be a very noticeable difference.
4562
4563"Unfixable" criminals probably wouldn't be scared of even public executions. Or at least the more major cases.
4564
4565==================================================
4566
4567Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/11 07:12
4568
4569We could always turn into that one society from that one episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where all crimes committed are punished by on-sight execution, despite the severity of the crime itself (both murder and stepping on the grass is punishable by death). THAT will put fear in criminals.
4570Then again, I don't want everyone wearing togas and fucking each other because of the decreased societal modesty..
4571
4572==================================================
4573
4574Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/11 14:11
4575
4576I don't actually have a horse in the death penalty thing, but I feel like I should point out that the concept of punishment has always been more for the benefit of the victim/state as a way to provide a sense of fairness or closure than it was about actually preventing a particular crime. That's why most classic punishments mimic the crime- fining thieves, jailing slavers/kidnappers, executing murderers, eye-for-an-eye, etc.
4577
4578==================================================
4579
4580amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/11 14:28
4581
4582@Hotdogeater
45831C is the high estimate. Ice is melting at similar rates as during the medieval warm period. Melting ice an rising sea levels are not a concern. All that "storm energy" stuff is pure bullshit made up to scare us into supporting their green conspiracy.
4584
4585@Draco
4586Ones with troubled childhoods are because their parents committed crimes but werent locked up long enough, so they had a kid and fucked it up. What we need to do is lock them up for longer so they cant reproduce and spread crime to their children. Crime will drop because there will be less criminals being born, and we should get all the mentally unstable ones eventually since that is genetic.
4587
4588If someone is unfixable, best to execute them so we dont have to waste money on a lost soul.
4589
4590@Vidkunssonn
4591Honestly that would make everyone too scared to make small mistakes and we'd all be nervous wrecks. I'd be down for death instead of 5year+ prison however.
4592
4593==================================================
4594
4595Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/11 23:27
4596
4597@amazingdude
4598Is that really the main reason? What if the parents were never caught to begin with? What if it wasn't actually the parents' fault and the child grew up in a bad neighborhood or their friends encouraged them to commit crimes?
4599
4600@TK
4601Eye-for-an-eye was a bit extreme, but I agree with its idea. At least they were attempting to make the criminals understand why what they did was bad. The closure problem would be solved once everyone got used to the system, or at least started seeing it the way I do
4602
4603==================================================
4604
4605hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/12 04:30
4606
4607dear god do you even know how storms work? Hurricanes REQUIRE heat to exist.
4608
4609==================================================
4610
4611Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/12 09:02
4612
4613@amazingdude
4614There is SOOOOOOOOOO much more psychology behind why criminals commit crimes than "their parents didn't raise them right". Most murders, for example, are done out of revenge or jealousy, not a bad childhood home. Being a criminal is not something you're born as or raised as. The parent being the reason for a crime committed (omitting crimes being done against one's parent(s)) is not extremely common, and even then, it's usually because a parent was absent, not because the parent was a criminal and the child is following their example. The lack of a male authority figure (or just a bad one) is extremely detrimental to a child's life. Crimes committed by these people tend to be done because they seek approval from someone they've appointed as their dominate male authority figure, often someone who's lived their life in crime. It's a cycle: the male in question ALSO likely grew up without a proper male authority figure and looked up to someone who lived THEIR life in crime. This accounts for about 75% of convicted criminals; the rest are mostly crimes done out of revenge, jealousy, greed, etc.
4615
4616TL;DR "I suffered bad parenting" is a rare excuse for a convict.
4617
4618==================================================
4619
4620Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/12 11:48
4621
4622I just watched a television commercial that said "it's as American as ditching the metric system". (~._.)
4623
4624Ahh, the debate lives on. You're welcome. :D
4625
4626==================================================
4627
4628amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/13 03:51
4629
4630@Dracobot
4631I grew up in a bad beanerhood. I didnt turn into a crime ridden wreck, did I? No. Bad neighborhoods do not contribute to crime. Just dont hang out with thugs. Putting criminals in therapy would not help victims, who will be mad that their criminal is going to be back out, regardless of if he is fixed or not.
4632
4633I'm against the switch to metric system.
4634
4635@Vidkunssonn
4636So what your saying is that criminals ARE mentally ill to kill people out of revenge? About the lack of a father thing, lock them up so they cant reproduce and walk away on their kid, so their kid doesnt become a fuckup. And make sure the children dont hang out with thugs to pick up that behavior. Its very simple. Dont hang out around thugs.
4637
4638==================================================
4639
4640Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/13 06:56
4641
4642One person almost never serves as good representation of a large chunk of the population. For all we know, you might have gotten extremely lucky and that 99% of residents in your neighborhood become criminals in their lifetime. And you might say that you don't personally know anyone who has committed a crime, but you still can't say anything about bad neighborhoods anywhere else.
4643
4644Some people may not have a choice of interacting with thugs. If they grew up there, then they probably spent around two decades of their lives there. It's almost impossible not to have extended exposure to thuggery over a period of time that large, especially in the worse places. There's a reason why bad neighborhoods have thugs and why the number of them doesn't die down over time. It's most likely because that number is being replenished every generation.
4645
4646And again, I would be happy that the criminal is getting help instead of being simply set aside like they have no worth (you will likely disagree), as I honestly believe everyone should feel about the situation, but one opinion doesn't matter that much most of the time. But anyway, they wouldn't be set free *until* they are fixed, and if that doesn't happen in a reasonable amount of time, then some form of jail time may be considered.
4647
4648==================================================
4649
4650Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/14 03:27
4651
4652@amazingdude
4653No, that is not what I'm saying at all. I'm about to hit you with the ultimately insulting "never mind" because you can't seem to correctly comprehend anything I say. As a logician, I cannot tolerate your deliberate misconceptions of my words. That's not how you win arguments; that's how you get your ass beat.
4654
4655At no point did I ever say "mental illness". It is not a mental illness to be raised in a way that society looks down upon. They're not insane for committing crimes, it's all they know because they were never taught how to live better. They only know how to survive utilizing crime because nobody ever taught them important life skills that could have led them to a successful, bountiful life. It's sickening for you to say that they have mental illnesses because they simply don't know a better way, because it's not their fault.
4656
4657==================================================
4658
4659Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/14 09:23
4660
4661Technically, a mental illness wouldn't be their fault either. Unless they got it from jumping off a bridge or whatever. That's why we have insane "asylums" instead of insane prisons, it's a place to protect sick people from themselves.
4662
4663==================================================
4664
4665amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/14 10:24
4666
4667@Draco
4668How is interacting with thugs unavoidable? Just dont interact with them. Dont hang out with bad people. How is it more complicated? Go to school, stay away from the bad kids, come back home, stay home, repeat for 18 years. Nobody is forcing you to hang out and be like the bad kids. It doesnt get more simpler than "just dont hang out with the bad kids". You dont have to go hang out with the bad kids while they go rob people or sell drugs. If someone has good parents then they are less likely to be converted in a bad neighborhood.
4669
4670Then incarcerate the young criminals so they cant keep fucking up the neighborhood. What we need to do is get rich people to move into these bad neighborhoods and bring money into the economy, which will reduce crime. Poverty is a major cause of crime.
4671
4672Well, you might feel differently, but I would want them to suffer for their crime. Perhaps let the victims decide the punishment.
4673
4674@Vidkunssonn
4675Either way, they commit crime, they deserve to be punished. Throw them into prison so they wont spread their crime ridden ways to their children. You really think that teaching somebody whos been doing crime all their life the right way is going to change them? They're unfixable.
4676
4677@TK
4678Good idea. Throw the mentally ill into asylums and thugs into prisons.
4679
4680==================================================
4681
4682Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/14 10:48
4683
4684I used to think that way too, but punishment is not always the best way to get through to someone. The idea of criminal rehabilitation is to teach criminals the better way that they never learned in their early life. The only time that doesn't seem to work is when the criminal enjoys their life of crime rather than that being the only thing they knew, which is the threshold at which I will call someone "unfixable".
4685
4686==================================================
4687
4688Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/15 01:03
4689
4690Try telling that to children who don't have the sense of danger as adults. Sure you can tell any adult not to do something and why you shouldn't do it and they would probably listen because they automatically understand the connection between the two. On the other hand, we have to hold on to our children so that they don't run into an active street, and telling them not to do that probably wouldn't be nearly enough because children aren't aware of danger all the time unlike adults. Even teenagers disobey parents (sometimes for the sake of disobeying) unless they absolutely fear their parents/guardians or are one of those few that develop maturity early on.
4691
4692>Victim's choice in punishment
4693Hmm, are we at least going to let them settle down first? I foresee the Eighth Amendment's invocation being quite common.
4694
4695==================================================
4696
4697amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/15 14:55
4698
4699@Vidkunssonn
4700If we teach them the good way, who's to say they wont go back to a life of crime? Then itll be a waste of time and we'd have a criminal out on the streets. Best to just lock them up so it doesnt happen.
4701
4702@Draco
4703Kids are stupid, you are absolutely right. Besides, the future thugs are likely bullies in school and getting in trouble all the time. Why would anyone want to hang out with someone who gets in trouble all the time?
4704
4705The 8th only applies when the government applies the punishment, not the citizens.
4706
4707==================================================
4708
4709hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/15 19:46
4710
4711Still, alot of the punishments will probably be crueler than the crime itself was
4712
4713==================================================
4714
4715Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/16 07:48
4716
4717@amazingdude
4718Repeated offenses is not exactly common among criminals who went through rehabilitation. If the rehabilitation doesn't work the first few times, that's usually when they give up trying to make them better.
4719
4720==================================================
4721
4722Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/18 00:05
4723
4724@amazingdude
4725Peer pressure is a powerful force.
4726But surely there will be some kind of monitoring, right?
4727
4728==================================================
4729
4730hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/18 03:50
4731
4732Its been three days since AD replied to anything and he didn't give a warning that he wouldn't be able to reply
4733
4734==================================================
4735
4736amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/18 07:42
4737
4738@Hotdogeater
4739I believe the punishment should be as bad as the crime, maybe a bit worse.
4740
4741@Vidkunssonn
4742It may work in some cases, but in most cases the person is beyond repair. A bad childhood can fuck you for life.
4743
4744@Dracoo
4745Peer pressure is weaker than commonly thought. I've been offered heroin and to go on robberies in high school and I easily turned that down without question, because I knew doing those things would be bad. Its not impossible.
4746
4747==================================================
4748
4749hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/19 23:32
4750
4751Well, looks like the debate just mainly passed to a new topic and its not raging anymore so the comments are somewhat safe now
4752
4753==================================================
4754
4755Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/20 22:17
4756
4757@amazingdude
4758No, not most cases, closer to 10% of cases. It would SEEM like there would be more cases where the person is beyond repair because very few prisoners agree to go through rehab and very few prisons have a rehab program.
4759
4760==================================================
4761
4762amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/21 06:40
4763
4764@Vidkunssonn
4765Because rehab doesnt work.
4766
4767==================================================
4768
4769Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/21 09:46
4770
4771@amazingdude
4772No, because it costs money, and prisons don't see the prospect of having to pay more money to get a convict out of incarceration faster.
4773
4774==================================================
4775
4776Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/21 11:07
4777
4778For many people, peer pressure is a serious problem. Peer pressure clearly doesn't affect you very much (and I can tell; you're the only person here with any conservative beliefs whatsoever). It's not impossible, but it's still hard for more people than you might think.
4779
4780==================================================
4781
4782amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/22 10:22
4783
4784https://pastebin.com/FH1AGSZy
4785
4786Vidkunssonn
4787 
4788If rehab worked, prisons would use it because they would need to employ less guards and save money not having to take care of inmates. But it doesnt work that way.
4789 
4790@Draco
4791 
4792You're right, peer pressure doesnt affect me much, but I cant imagine being pressured into committing crime. I get how it encourages drugs and stuff, but crime? Really? Are these people just uneducated or do they not care?
4793 
4794I'm pretty used to being the only conservate on forums and IRL. The internet is pretty liberal and I live in the most liberal state in the country. It sucks.
4795
4796==================================================
4797
4798Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/22 11:40
4799
4800Out of curiosity, why are you still naming everything "climate alarmism debunked"? That last one had nothing to do with the climate or even natural science as a whole.
4801
4802==================================================
4803
4804Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/22 12:13
4805
4806@amazingdude
4807Isn't there something about the prison systems earning money based on how many prisoners they house? I've heard that that's the #1 incentive to keep people in jail, especially privately-owned prisons.
4808
4809I think peer pressure causes people to make bad decisions like doing drugs, which eventually evolves into crimes such as stealing because they focused too much on their drug habit and are forced to do those things in order to continue living or further fuel their habit.
4810
4811>Conservative in liberal state
4812lol It's the other way around for me.
4813
4814==================================================
4815
4816skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/22 13:19
4817
4818The term for the phenomenon, Draco, is the "prison-industrial complex".
4819
4820==================================================
4821
4822Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/23 06:17
4823
4824@amazingdude
4825That's not how it works. They still need to keep the number of guards the same because the number of prisoners doesn't decrease when sending prisoners to rehab (they're still incarcerated), and the people who RUN rehab charge a higher salary to work, so it actually costs MORE than to just keep them imprisoned.
4826
4827No, the internet is not liberal. There are too many people who follow the philosophy of "This can't be used against me, so I can do whatever I want" (trolls) for the internet to be identified as liberal.
4828
4829==================================================
4830
4831amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/23 11:16
4832
4833@TK
4834To seperate my pastss from everyone elses.
4835
4836@Draco
4837Thats not true about private prisons. Thats the government propaganda making you think rehab works. Also, wanna trade places? You move to California, and I move to conservative state?
4838Making a bit more sense now. Trumps wall should reduce crime because it would make it harder to get drugs into the country, which prevents addiction, preventing thugs from developing, less thugs = less crime. Plus it will slow illegal immigration and create millions of jobs. I know the wall isnt relavant to this but I brought it up because you suggested drugs cause crime and walls stop drugs from coming in.
4839
4840@Vidkunssonn
4841Except rehab is much higher risk. Life incarceration is low risk. Rehab can fail an you have a new killer on the streets. However its very hard to excape from a prison, and you still keep the killer off of the streets.
4842
4843==================================================
4844
4845Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/23 16:38
4846
4847Cocaine, sure- assuming you can stop the Cartels from using boats or aircraft. But most of the drugs that get people desperate like meth are locally sourced and a wall won't change that. Hell, meth was invented about an hour's drive from where I live.
4848
4849==================================================
4850
4851Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/24 07:25
4852
4853@amazingdude
4854People who have life sentences RARELY ever get put through rehab, and if someone with a life sentence DOES go through rehab, there an approximate 0% chance they'll be freed. Those who aren't in prison for life and are put through rehab still have to serve their time, even after completing rehab. You aren't set free for completing rehab, you're still in punishment for committing a crime, rehab is just to try to get the person out of the criminal mindset.
4855
4856==================================================
4857
4858Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/24 09:24
4859
4860@amazingdude
4861I meant all prisons in general, but I may be wrong.
4862
4863==================================================
4864
48659132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/25 01:12
4866
4867I know about prison much more than you. All my 4 uncles had been in prison and one was sent to tent city. If your talking about saving money, tent city it is. It's in the middle of the desert in Tuscon, Arizona. It has no AC, no beds, sleep under tour-up rags. You will be stung by scorpions about twice a year. Even if it's 120 degrees out, you must do a daily exercise. People hurt each other for some cold water. That isn't fun. Thats one of 11 jails and use it for murders and illegalls that cross the border.
4868
4869==================================================
4870
4871amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/25 07:36
4872
4873@TK
4874Itll slow the import of drugs, and discourage many people from trying. Instead of just passing a bag though a small fence, you now have to catapult it over, take a boat, etc. Itll stop a decent amount, but not all. Doesnt mean the wall is worthless.
4875
4876@Vidkunssonn
4877Ahh, making a bit more sense now. But I'm still skeptical about the success of rehab and whether its worth it. It hasnt been proven to work, nor do we have much reason to believe it does. For minor crimes, possibly, but not for major crimes.
4878
4879@9132
4880Sounds like a great place to put the worst of the worst criminals. They're unfixable, a waste of money, so lets let these lowlifes rot away in the arizona sun. Or the death penalty.
4881
4882==================================================
4883
4884Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/25 14:35
4885
4886That's just cocaine though. Meth, heroin, and LSD can all be made with a highschool chemistry education and some medicines/cleaning supplies. Is the Wall going to loop around every pharmacy and dollar store in the country?
4887
4888==================================================
4889
48909132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/25 23:25
4891
4892@Dracobot
4893My uncle stole a bait car while the cop was still setting it up. in Arizona, you will get SHOT and KILLED if you stole a candy bar while theatening the clerk. Its happened before and it will happen again.
4894
4895@amazingdude
4896Hey, I live in the middle of Arizona too, you know.
4897
4898==================================================
4899
4900hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/26 09:23
4901
4902Hurricane Harvey is gonna hit Texas in a few hours as a major hurricane. Lets hope the damage isn't too bad, but storm surge and heavy winds will probably cause really bad damage. This hurricane is stronger than Katrina was at landfall.
4903
4904The hurricane stalling over the area isn't gonna help with the flooding at all. There is supposed to be 3 feet of rain in localized areas, and the storm surge is gonna lower the amount of water flowing into the ocean by alot, making inland flooding along rivers even worse.
4905
4906==================================================
4907
4908amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/26 12:17
4909
4910@TK
4911Like I said, that does not mean we should not build a wall. Should we not ban flamethrowers because people will get them illegally anyway? No, we should ban them because they are too dangerous for people to own. The same is for drugs. The wall will stop SOME drugs, BUT NOT ALL. IT DOES NOT NEED TO BLOCK ALL DRUGS TO BE USEFUL, BUT IT WILL STOP A GOOD PORTION OF DRUGS FROM COMING IN. This went right over your head. My last comment specifically stated, "Itll stop a decent amount, but not all. Doesnt mean the wall is worthless." Yet you still claim the wall is worthless. We should stop as many drugs from coming in as possible, and the wall WILL help a bit, and it is still worth it.
4912
4913Also related, Less coke = less hard drugs used.
4914
4915@Hotdogeater
4916And watch the radical climate hoaxers use it as fuel for their global warming hoax.
4917
4918==================================================
4919
4920hotdogeater1000			#LiLWHMJE 2017/08/27 03:57
4921
4922Hurricanes are warm-core storm systems, so global warming = warmer oceans (obviously) = larger time frame for hurricanes and more fuel for hurricanes.
4923
4924==================================================
4925
4926Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/27 07:33
4927
4928There's other steps we could be taking that don't involve expensive construction projects. Like following Portugal's example and decriminalizing drugs to instead treat addiction like the health problem it is; they did that and drug-related deaths dropped by over 80% since 2001 while the street prices of drugs saw a steep decline as well, deincentivizing their trade.
4929
4930==================================================
4931
4932vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/08/27 10:41
4933
4934@amazingdude
4935Remind me again how criminals obey the law.
4936
4937Simply banning something will not get rid of the problem. It's been that way since the concept of "law" was created. Making the use of something illegal will not stop its illegal usage; that's why Hillary trying to ban guns was so stupid, because it won't stop anybody. Even if it were successful, the homicide and suicide rate won't decrease; people will just find another way. Banning the object won't fix the problem, because there's always another object that does the same thing, and it's impossible to remove them all. If you were somehow able to successfully remove marijuana from the country completely, drug users will just move on to another substance to get their buzz. Don't ban the drug, that won't work. Fix the people using them. Eliminate the demand. That's the only reason people in Mexico try to import drugs to the US: people in the US use them. If we eliminate the desire to use marijuana, then the supply will decrease ASTRONOMICALLY. The wall MAY help, but it won't fix it.
4938
4939==================================================
4940
4941amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/27 13:37
4942
4943@Hotdogeater
4944I meant that the liberals will use it to fool us into thinking we caused the hurricane. We arent causing stronger hurricanes. They are a natural product of warming. We are in an ice age righ now. Imagine how strong hurricanes were before the modern ice age.
4945
4946@TK
4947You mean decriminalize drug usage, or drug dealing? You might be on to something here. I'd be fine with rehabilitating drug addicts, as long as they weren't dealing and that they pay for the rehab. They fucked up by taking drugs, they pay to fix themselves. In addition to building the wall.
4948
4949@Vidkunssonn
4950I agree with your views on guns.
4951A wall will prevent the drugs from getting here in the first place. Or send the military into Mexico (With support from their government!) to take out the cartels. Less drugs, less illegal immigration since they can focus on making their country better. Its another possible solution. Rehab might be feasible with drug abusers too.
4952
4953==================================================
4954
4955IFIDIE					#ZgslTFIx 2017/08/27 14:06
4956
4957U guys are still debating its been like a month
4958
4959==================================================
4960
4961skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/27 14:21
4962
4963Like 80% of opioid addicts became addicted because of painkillers legally prescribed because of health issues. They didn't "mess up" by becoming addicted, they're the victims of extreme misfortune, and completely abandoning them just because you feel superior to them goes against the sort of civilized altruism that distinguishes humans from other animals.
4964
4965(And no, I'm not saying we should withold prescription painkillers, but there needs to be support systems for those who do become dependent, otherwise we will never recover from the addiction epidemic.)
4966
4967==================================================
4968
4969Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/28 14:35
4970
4971@Vidkunssonn
4972https://pastebin.com/rJQ9WA6G
4973
4974"No, the internet is not liberal. There are too many people who follow the philosophy of "This can't be used against me, so I can do whatever I want" (trolls) for the internet to be identified as liberal."
4975 
4976This is not true. Being left-leaning is more chaotic, and right-leaning more orderly. Both are necessary and neither of those descriptions are pejorative. In the realm of the internet however, liberalism suffers because of its chaotic nature. This is why, for example, the new right is ferocious with doxxing people and similar forms of undermining, whereas the left is unplanned and stumbling with their aggression and anger.
4977 
4978As for rehabbing - it's an abstract problem. It's a question of whether or not a system can treat so many people SITUATIONALLY - key word. It's a lot of effort to give everyone their own particular treatment with regards to their circumstances. And is it worth it? Maybe it's "not their fault" in an objectivist way, and there is still a civilised person somewhere within them, but it's going to be far less valuable to society than a person who didn't fall into a criminal lifestyle. There are also considerations like the fact that male aggression cannot be cracked by psychologists, aside from the fact that it staves off at age 28. So why not lock up violent criminals til age 28?
4979 
4980Another thing to consider: antisociality is often really congenital, if not engrained for other reasons. Psychopathy is also literally present from birth, and can only be diagnosed via brain scan at age 25. For the greater good, should we not just "dispose", "forget" about these people? I am playing devil's advocate, but it's something I question a lot. Why rehabilitate? Why not just kill them or something?
4981 
4982Most important: our tax money will be an "investment" in these people. How will it possibly pay off? For one thing, to go from criminals to contributors a great deal of them will need a program that continues helping them after their rehabilitation - at least a big enough chunk that a program will be created for it. There is the fact that there will be less destruction and economic ruin from crime, but it doesn't outweigh how much we'd lose just so that we can "do the right thing".
4983
4984similarly to that chicken-before-the-egg theory about banning vs rehabilitating: what creates propensity for crime? Upbringing and societal conditions? We should focus more on stopping children from being born out of wedlock, for example.
4985
4986==================================================
4987
4988Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/28 21:14
4989
4990https://pastebin.com/6kDb3NpK
4991
4992Desperation and conditioning, crime rates are higher in low-income areas because stealing is better than starving. Kids learn how to shoplift to get things they otherwise couldn't afford, and just keep doing it afterwards because that's what they have the skill-sets for. Getting sent to prison just opens up more criminal opportunities, because the larger gangs and mobs have been using the system for networking and recruiting specialized convicts like safe-crackers, hitmen, cleaners, and most recently hackers since the 30s. It creates a sort of ecosystem of where the only authority anyone involved will respect are the ones that "earned" it by starting at the bottom like they did and taking what they wanted until they're at the top of the underworld.
4993
4994==================================================
4995
4996Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/28 22:01
4997
4998Yes, thank you, Minsheme. It's all about prevention. We should be able to make a huge difference in just a few generations.
4999
5000==================================================
5001
5002Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/29 05:13
5003
5004@Torture King
5005Of course, so what do you propose? Make networking within prisons more difficult or rehabilitate everyone?
5006
5007==================================================
5008
5009amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/29 10:41
5010
5011@Skyk
5012Addiction because of prescription is not true and has been used as a scapegoat for the real reason people get addicted: They abuse it. When used normally for pain, its not addicting. When overused however, it is. And I specifically said we should probably help drug addicts. addicts arent criminals, as long as they arent distributing drugs.
5013
5014@Minsheme
5015New to debate? Welcome to the great 2017 debate.
5016Rehab would work better with addicts than criminals. Small crime MIGHT work, but repeat offenders or serious crime is usually unfixable. Even if a criminal is rehailitated, the prison sentence will still need to be served, whether its during rehab or before.
5017
5018I agree with you on psychopathy, however just killing them from birth isnt a good idea. If they do kill someone however and ARE psychopaths, throw them in the chair immediately.
5019
5020@TK
5021Parents should teach the proper skillsets. Doing good in school, go to college, get a job. You dont need to be rich to get good grades, you just need to study and avoid the bad kids. Whether your rich or poor, theft is always wrong, VERY few exceptions. Or we could get rich people to bring money and move into ad neighborhoods
5022
5023==================================================
5024
5025skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/29 10:51
5026
5027AD: You are straight-up wrong. It is quite common that people become dependent on painkillers even when using them as prescribed. The idea that painkillers would be non-addictive because you're in pain makes no biological sense. In fact, many studies have shown that using them to treat pain can actually enhance the process of both psychological and chemical dependency.
5028
5029I am a neuroscience with years of experience studying the science of addiction. This is not an argument you are going to win. Just shut up now before you embarrass yourself more, okay?
5030
5031==================================================
5032
5033Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/29 11:16
5034
5035Whether or not stealing is morally wrong depends largely on what's being stolen, $50 worth of rice is not equal to $50 worth of champagne. I wouldn't condemn anyone as "bad" just because they're in a more unfortunate situation than me.
5036
5037==================================================
5038
5039amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/29 11:30
5040
5041@skyk
5042Then why arent all people who take painkillers for pain pill junkies? If your statement was true, painkillers would not be prescribed because everyone would fall addicted. I'd suggest you watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8L-0nSYzg . I dont agree with it 100%, but it does have some really interesting parts.
5043
5044@TK
5045So you think its OK to steal from people more fortunate than you? Why dont I just steal my neighbors lamborghini just because I dont have a car at all yet he has 7. Poor people dont absolutely NEED to steal. They can live without it.
5046
5047==================================================
5048
5049skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/29 12:51
5050
5051Painkillers are prescribed because otherwise life-saving and life-improving surgery would not be possible, even if some (obviously not all) people develop a dependence as a consequence. If they were 100% addictive, they probably would be used less often, but they aren't, and I never claimed they were. When I said "quite common", I meant that many drug addicts begin that way. Not sure how you read that as "everyone who takes painkillers becomes a junkie".
5052
5053Anyway, that video is a major oversimplification of drug addiction, and his claim that people prescribed morphine don't become addicted is just false. Rates of morphine addiction/dependence are only as low as they are because doctors typically carefully manage doses and plan for tolerance and withdrawal.
5054
5055Yes, the social environment is a factor in most, if not all, forms of addiction, but it's far from the only factor or even the most significant.
5056
5057Not only that, but the "rat park" experiment mentioned has been discredited for decades, ever since other researchers tried (and failed) to replicate it. Basically, that video is just an ad for yet another under-researched pop-neuroscience book, and should not inform drug policy.
5058
5059==================================================
5060
5061Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/29 18:07
5062
5063Reading comprehension, you need some. I explicitly stated that there was a difference between stealing necessities and stealing luxuries.
5064
5065==================================================
5066
50679132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/29 23:22
5068
5069What is this debate about? It started from global warming and is now about addictive painkillers.
5070(However, painkillers are like muscle relaxers: If you have to many, your heart will stop.)
5071
5072==================================================
5073
5074Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/08/29 23:28
5075
5076"They can live without it"?
5077What about the starving and/or dehydrated, or do they fall under your "very few exceptions"?
5078
5079@9132
5080It lived on under a new topic basically because of me. And yes, I did that on purpose. You're welcome.
5081
5082==================================================
5083
5084skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/29 23:43
5085
5086I'll admit I got pretty tired of talking about the climate, but then AD happened to stumble into being completely ignorant on a topic I am highly educated it, so now I'm back in.
5087
5088==================================================
5089
50909132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/08/29 23:47
5091
5092@Dracobot
5093I'm not sure if you made it better or worse.
5094
5095==================================================
5096
5097Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/30 04:11
5098
5099"I wouldn't condemn anyone as "bad" just because they're in a more unfortunate situation than me."
5100
5101I don't know what your argument is. You are just saying you are a highly agreeable person, not commenting anything about criminals. You mean it's mere determinism that brings them to being criminals? It doesn't matter, they are still criminals and they know it, there's no need to sympathise for them.
5102
5103==================================================
5104
5105Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/30 05:05
5106
5107@Minsheme
5108That's the label amazingdude keeps using apparently without regard to context, "bad people". I'm saying that crime is a symptom of poverty, so throwing people in prison and calling it good is just throwing a rug over the mess instead of properly cleaning it with public works programs.
5109
5110==================================================
5111
5112Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/30 05:50
5113
5114There are plenty of poor people who don't commit crimes out of desperation. If I stop beating people who come to steal my crops at night, what's going to happen? Of course that is different from the law, but it's analogous - even if we plan on rehabilitating rather than punishing, we have to stigmatise crime; consider reactions to crime as deterministic as crime arising from poverty.
5115
5116==================================================
5117
5118amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/30 09:59
5119
5120@Skyk
5121What percentage of people prescribed painkillers actually get addicted? The number is probably exaggerated. People have different addictive tendencies. Some people do crack and never touch it again, others do it once and become crackheads. People with addictive tendencies are more likely to fall addicted to anything, whether its crack, herion, or painkillers.
5122
5123@TK
5124"Necessary" or not, theft is not OK.
5125
5126@Draco
5127Very few exceptions is where death is literally on the line. Low income people are not at that level of poverty. Ever heard of food stamps?
5128
5129@Minsheme
5130"Bad people" are crimnals. Crime is not a symptom of poverty. There is a fine line between poverty and crime. I did not say that crime is deterministic. Crime is caused by a will to commit crime. People with the will to commit crime are bad people, who need to be locked up. Reaction crime is justifiable (within reason) as a punishment to the initial crime committed. Beating someone up for repeated crop theft is OK, but killing them after stealing 1 piece of corn is not.
5131
5132==================================================
5133
5134skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/30 12:25
5135
5136AD: The proportion of individuals who develop an addiction after being prescribed painkillers is difficult to measure, but it's estimated to be around 7%. That value represents the prevalence of addiction within painkiller use, which is important, but more important to our particular discussion is the role painkiller use plays in addiction. That is represented by the proportion of opioid addicts who developed addictions from prescription medication (80%, as I said).
5137
5138I'm not sure if it's deliberate or if you just can't concentrate, but you're drifting away from the basic argument. You argued that addiction is a moral failing, and that society therefore has no responsibility to assist addicts. The basis of your argument is objectively wrong, as is clearly established by the fact that many addicts acquired chemical dependency from legitimate medical necessity. Whether or not there are people who aren't addicted to the same drugs has very little to do with it.
5139
5140==================================================
5141
5142Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/30 19:00
5143
5144@Minsheme
5145Well of course it should be illegal, I'm just saying it's not necessarily "wrong" to take food or water or some other necessity if you otherwise can't pay for it- thieves who can pay but just won't are part of the problem. Ideally the government would subsidize you for the loss like they already do for farmers growing staples instead of cash crops.
5146
5147@amazingdude
5148There's multiple levels of "okay" and "not okay", context is important.
5149
5150==================================================
5151
5152Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/30 19:18
5153
5154You can easily argue that all propensity for addiction is immoral. I'd say that a fully moral and "good" person would be immunised from addiction (I am describing an almost divine person though). As you said, a big chunk of opioid use is not deliberate. Since it's arbitrary, I think it's either moral to be geared so that you're unwavered by that experience or its moral to have the will to push against the urge for continued opioid use.
5155
5156@AD
5157I mostly agree with your pragmatic outlook. I think you misinterpreted my comment.
5158
5159(I guess it depends on your definition of "moral")
5160
5161@TK
5162You mean since they were acting out of desperation instead of malice? I agree they had no malintent, but I can't make sense of this. Were they so desperate that they forgot the law? Who decides who was in desperation and who was malicious, since it's easy to blur the line? I understand why you'd want to subsidise damage from this crime, but it is very nitty gritty. Lots of specific instances, needing verification, and their effects may not be isolated i.e. may snowball. I also don't see it being enforced without removing deterrents for crime. Why would anyone be responsible when they can simply get to a point where they "need to steal"?Even welfare would do a better job than this.
5163
5164==================================================
5165
5166skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/30 23:14
5167
5168@Minsheme
5169I'm not really here to discuss philosophy, but measuring morality by the ability to resist addiction is as pointless as measuring it by the person's tendency toward seasonal allergies. If two people are given the same prescription to recover from surgery, they both follow the prescription, and one of them develops an addiction, the addicted individual isn't any worse than the other, just less lucky in terms of brain chemistry.
5170
5171It's been a known scientific fact for decades that some people are inherently more likely to develop chemical dependence under the same conditions, due to a number of fundamental biological factors. Of course, this only results in an epidemic of addiction because of a true moral failing: individuals like AD who feel no responsibility to support their fellow humans, and would rather put these people in jail or out on the street while still addicted than put them through rehabilitation.
5172
5173==================================================
5174
51759132					#qfLtTlAz 2017/08/31 00:58
5176
5177@amazingdude
5178I watched the video and agree with a lot of it. There is some that i don't agree with, but the rest makes sense.
5179
5180==================================================
5181
5182SkyPhantomhive			#RiRWL6l3 2017/08/31 04:29
5183
5184Can we talk about code? Or start an argument regarding how video game files should have an administrators code instead of being open to the public? 
5185
5186==================================================
5187
5188amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/08/31 09:38
5189
5190@skyk
5191I still believe they are at least partly at fault for their addiction.
5192
5193In that case, Guy 2 should pay for rehab. Also, I have stated multiple times that people with addictions SHOULD get rehab, just that they should be responsible for the cost. The same way that some people are more likely to get cancer, but still have to pay for their health care. Have you even read that in my previous replies?
5194
5195"Rehab would work better with addicts than criminals"
5196"I'd be fine with rehabilitating drug addicts, as long as they weren't dealing and that they pay for the rehab."
5197"Rehab might be feasible with drug abusers too."
5198
5199@TK
5200Government should not subsidize poor peoples food. That's their problem, and if they can't make good money, they should get a job. The only people who deserve government help are the ones who CANT work. Anyone who CAN work but isn't does not deserve subsidized food, unless they already have a job.
5201
5202@minsheme
5203Addictive tendency is biological, it cant be easily treated. Your comments are very philosophical and it's hard to determine your stance on the issues.
5204
5205==================================================
5206
5207Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/08/31 09:47
5208
5209@skyk
5210It was just devil's advocate, but in retrospect it was a silly angle to try since it's biological. How about we just weed out everyone with addict genes so that we can create the ubermensch?
5211
5212==================================================
5213
5214skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/08/31 10:03
5215
5216AD: You can "believe" that it's their fault, but unless you have scientific evidence for it, your "belief" means nothing against the facts. The fact is, in many cases, exposure to painkillers is unavoidable within the proper medical care, and in a significant proportion of those cases the patient develops an addiction while properly using the prescribed drug. At what part of that is the person at fault? Regardless of what you believe, you can't just force yourself to not be addicted out of willpower. If you could, no one would want to be addicted.
5217
5218Saying that addicts should be fully responsible for the cost of rehab is not a solution for the addiction crisis. Addicts already have the option to try and pay for their own rehab, obviously, but the price is typically very expensive for someone without health insurance, so if the addict can't get public assistance for the cost, they will have no choice but to remain addicted, even at the cost of their wellbeing, and in many cases will have to turn to illegal drugs in order to avoid withdrawal (which can be potentially lethal outside of rehabilitating environments, by the way).
5219
5220Minsheme: Aside from eugenics being very problematic from both a moral and practical standpoint, it will be many many years before we can even identify the genetic basis behind addiction or resistance to addiction.
5221
5222==================================================
5223
5224Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/08/31 20:09
5225
5226https://pastebin.com/3WSBTF26
5227
5228@Minsheme
5229I agree, welfare is better, but if someone slips through the cracks it wouldn't be wrong for them to ensure survival another way. Like the ongoing nonsense in Flint, Michigan; if it turned out that some 60% of the water bottles they're completely dependent on were stolen directly from a bottling plant, would it really be the moral thing to confiscate it back and throw everyone involved in jail?
5230 
5231@amazingdude
5232I'd argue that protecting it's people from starvation is just as important to the concept of a government as protecting them from any other danger. Pooling resources for public good is kind of the whole point of the social contract.
5233
5234==================================================
5235
5236Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/01 08:29
5237
5238Finally, an argument involving something that actually has proven facts.
5239
5240==================================================
5241
5242amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/01 11:31
5243
5244@skyk
5245Why should we have to pay for a bunch of losers who started doing drugs in the first place? I dont want my tax dollars going to support someone who has been doing tons of drugs since he was 15.
5246
5247@Skyk, minsheme
5248Eugenics is good for society in the end. We covered this earlier on in the debate. Eugenics can be used to eliminate inherited diseases from the population, greatly reducing healthcare costs and improving our society. Eugenics started out in the early 20th century in the US, and was very popular before some Austrian guy with a funny mustache took it to the extreme. I'd be in support of eliminating addiction genes. It's ultimately the best decision for society.
5249
5250@TK
5251If somebody doesnt want to help poor people, then they shouldnt have to. It should be voluntary, I dont want money taken against my will to be given to somebody who fucked up in life and now relies on the govt for help. Unless he cant work or already has a job, he doesnt deserve free stuff.
5252On an unrelated note, this debate has officially transcended the CB limit.
5253
5254==================================================
5255
5256Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/01 12:10
5257
5258What exactly do you think taxes are for? Should we also make policing, firefighting, military training, and schooling 100% voluntary?
5259
5260==================================================
5261
5262skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/01 12:41
5263
5264AD, aside from the fact that public aid is less costly in the long run anyway, are you just gonna ignore all of the facts I've said about how drug addicts are not just "a bunch of losers"? If you're just going to base everything on your idiotic prejudices instead of any actual evidence, I'm not even going to bother talking to you any more, because you clearly don't have the capacity to listen.
5265
5266And no, eugenics is not effective. I'm going to assume that no one here has a background in genetics or they would have spoken up but now, so you're going to have to believe me when I say that the most basic "negative" traits (such as a tendency toward Alzheimer's disease, for instance) are extremely complex, involving dozens of genes, many of which have not yet even been identified. Something with a less specific pathology, such as a higher rate of addiction, could potentially involve interactions between hundreds of genes. Not only that, but many of them are going to be essential on their own. Like, if you cut out all the genes that result in a tendency toward addiction, you'd inevitably end up with someone, in a best case scenario, with a totally nonfunctional motivational nervous circuit. It's not like there's just an "addiction gene" that got stuck in there that makes a person an addict.
5267
5268I don't expect everyone to have a degree in genetics and neuroscience, but for heck's sake, don't use your ignorance and prejudice for the basis of political policy.
5269
5270==================================================
5271
5272abc123					#wgj3BymO 2017/09/01 14:55
5273
5274why is there always an argument here .-.
5275
5276==================================================
5277
5278Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/01 16:43
5279
5280Eugenics is incredibly effective, the problem is mostly that people just don't have the assertiveness to make it happen. Modifying genes before birth is more or less something for transhumanism in comparison to the benefits of not allowing disabled people to reproduce. There is no reason why doing the same for bloodlines with Alzheimer's (which is definitely NOT the most basic negative trait), for example, wouldn't work eventually, but for traits like that it would become a logistical and utilitarian problem; probably has more convenient solutions than eugenics.
5281
5282Scholars of genetics are torn on how effective prenatal eugenics is so your appeal to authority isn't going to work. Darwinian eugenics works no doubt. We supplement the existence of people who needn't be alive and wouldn't be if we stopped assisting them for nothing.
5283
5284==================================================
5285
5286skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/01 23:16
5287
5288https://pastebin.com/9J8gTnru
5289
5290If you define gene therapy as eugenics (which is a pretty stretched use of the term), then yes, eugenics can be effective, but even then for diseases with a single identified gene locus, such as sickle cell anemia. For diseases such as Alzheimer's (which, as a protein-level disease, is extremely basic), several possible genes have been implicated already, with others unknown, and the consequences of removing or altering each gene is still unknown. Genetic tests already are available, but there probably won't be gene therapy available for many years. Eve then, hundreds of thousands of people have some form of familial Alzheimer's disease, so investing in eugenic measures to treat every single individual with gene therapy would be an enormously expensive project.
5291 
5292I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Darwinian eugenics, since that's not really a term I've ever heard geneticists use, but assuming you mean a system of eugenics where selective pressure is artificially put against harmful phenotypic traits, it's pretty unlikely that would work unless the most draconian controls possible were implemented. Carriers of recessive genes, random mutation and the influence of epigenetics would make it too difficult to even identify who will express a harmful gene or set of genes. Like, the vast majority of people who know they carry a gene for early-onset AD already choose not to reproduce, and yet the disease still exists because it is still so challenging to identify ahead of time.
5293 
5294What evidence do you have that eugenics is effective?
5295
5296==================================================
5297
52989132 on dif com			#bmL0OYbZ 2017/09/02 01:03
5299
5300@abc123
5301There is one side who believes they're right and the other side is wrong and vice-versa. I believe that people that drink their whole lives of of other peoples money is unfair, but lets say that amazingdude thinks differently.(Although highly unlikely) I think he's wrong and it's neck-to-neck battle. Does that answer your question? 
5302
5303Besides, we can arrest people who take drugs, so what of it?
5304
5305================================================== *1
5306
5307amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/02 08:32
5308
5309@TK
5310No, because those benefit the community. We all benefit from having firefighters and police. We dont benefit by giving a homeless dude free money. Get a job or get out.
5311
5312@skyk
5313Most of them begin by voluntarily taking drugs. We're talking about all drugs combined, not just painkillers. These people chose to take these drugs, so they should pay to fix themselves as consequence for their actions. Sure, it is possible to be fed crack in a drink or something, but thats hard to prove as the starting point for an addiction. Poverty does not cause people to become addicted. Some people are more vulnerable to addiction than others, but in each case, the starting point of the addiction is the users choice to take drugs. Theres people vulnerable to addiction that never took drugs in the first place and are doing fine.
5314
5315Darwinian eugenics works like like evolution, except WE choose who doesnt get to reproduce. Sadly, this will never happen, because Hitler took it to the extreme, and you'll NEVER gain public support for it. If we DO want to become an intergalactic civilization, we'd have to go through the process someday. Maybe it's too early, but it must be done some time for the benefit of the human species.
5316
5317==================================================
5318
5319skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/02 09:02
5320
5321https://pastebin.com/nL0GkPia
5322
5323Okay, let me make an outline so that it's very clear why eugenics is not an optimal strategy:
5324 
5325To target a genetic disease, the gene locus must be identified, which in most cases will most likely not happen for years or even decades with focused research.
5326 
5327Genetic diseases are typically not visible phenotypically, because of three factors:
5328* Carriers of recessive traits
5329* Diseases which don't manifest until late in life
5330* Epigenetic suppression of disease genes (a phenomena which, notably, was not well understood at the time when eugenics was still a popular scientific view)
5331 
5332So, to identify everyone carrying harmful genes, dozens of genetic tests must be performed on every person in the population. The population (whether it's a city or country) would then need to either:
5333* Be totally isolated to prevent outside genetic material from entering
5334* Implement the most effective border control of all time
5335* Or, just test the entire population of the Earth
5336 
5337At this point, we're already talking about an expense that is magnitudes higher, even at a local scale, than the most generous healthcare proposals for the entire United States, and that's not even getting to the actual issue of how you intend to regulate reproduction.
5338 
5339If you're going to prohibit reproduction for everyone that carries one of the thousands of possible genetic mutations that can cause disease, you're going to have to impose that on a huge proportion of the population (I can't even estimate how huge, because as I've said the amount of testing this would require to even begin with would be extremely expensive). Aside from the practical cost, the society would have to deal with the inevitable resistance and, if the restrictions are successful, the proportional drop in population (and good luck bringing in outsiders to fill in for the shrinking labour force when you have to genetically screen all of them, too).
5340 
5341And of course, because the nature of most of these diseases comes from mutation, you will have to repeat this process every generation to make sure the diseases don't just spontaneously reappear anyway.
5342 
5343Is that really better than just communally paying for public healthcare? I'd rather give poor people medicine than pay a thousand times more to have random people sterilized.
5344
5345==================================================
5346
5347Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/02 18:23
5348
5349I'm not saying "give homeless people free money" I'm saying that everyone has as much right to live as anybody else. If someone has higher aspirations than mere survival, (this might shock you but most people at least have a hobby that costs money) then they'll likely get a job on their own to pay for it once survival is the sure thing it's supposed to be in civilized society. If you insist on oversimplifying it it's basically "Expand the scope of the Food Stamps program to include everything needed to live, no more no less.".
5350
5351==================================================
5352
5353Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/02 21:20
5354
5355You're putting a lot of trust in people's default nature
5356
5357@skyk
5358There is not much to calculate in the effectiveness of eugenics. If there is any objection to sterilising hereditarily disabled people apart from a logistical one then I'd like to hear it.
5359
5360Here's a relevant video.
5361https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Hka36EGgU
5362
5363==================================================
5364
5365skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/02 23:53
5366
5367Minsheme: https://pastebin.com/PxK6WqFp
5368
5369I mean, there are many many people who could make ethical and philosophical objections to sterilizing people based on their genetics (because, to actually remove a genetic disability from the population, you would have to target carriers, not just people actually expressing the gene), but I had a feeling you and AD wouldn't really care that much about ethics, so I've been focusing on the practical aspects.
5370 
5371Brennan's proposal is not the sterilization of hereditarily disabled people, anyway. He essentially proposed that gene sequencing should be more easily publicly available, and that carriers of genes related to severe disability should be incentivized to either not have children, or use gene therapy to treat the child's disability congenitally. This is a more reasonable proposal, but it's still not that feasible in the present. Brennan brought up that gene sequencing is getting cheaper, but it is still very expensive, especially when you consider that there are thousands of genetic disabilities, many of which can be carried invisibly. There's a reason the film Gattaca is science fiction.
5372 
5373It's true that supporting disabled adults can cost a lot of money to a society, but all the effort in Brennan's proposal wouldn't effectively reduce that compared to how much it would cost to sequence every prospective parent, when you consider that the majority of even congenital disabilities are environmental or develop from mutations during development rather than parental genes, not to mention disabilities that develop through sickness or injury later in life.
5374
5375==================================================
5376
5377amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/03 02:40
5378
5379https://pastebin.com/VFJMtm8B
5380
5381@skyk 
5382Require by law that all babies will be genetically tested for diseases. In around 100 years, you'd have the entire population measured. Eugenics takes centuries.
5383 
5384I'd say its more unethical to keep the diseases circulating in the population. We'd have the ability to cure all inherited diseases, and the rate of mutation is so small it wouldnt cause a disease to spread, especially with from birth testing. If we can somehow edit genes in the womb to cure the disease, that'll be fine.
5385 
5386It's bad from our perspective, but what if in 200 years it becomes way more feasible and the public's opinions change? Many people right now with inherited diseases don't WANT to have children because of it. Who's to say this wont continue in the future? Theres options already, there's adoption and artifical fertilization. I'm only objected to spreading of their genes, not them raising children.
5387 
5388Morals vary by society. In this society, sterilization of the diseased is very wrong, but during the eugenics movement, it wasn't. Who's to say it wont change in the far future, and maybe the disabled wont even want to have children?
5389 
5390Sure, we can just pay for healthcare for everyone, but that completely avoids the issue. Thats like saying "Why cure cancer when you can treat it?" Either way, people are still suffering from diseases they were born with, and no matter how free it is, healthcare is still a pain in the ass. Nobody WANTS to go to the doctor, free or not free. These diseases arent going to stop from appearing if we just treat them. Prevention is the best medicine.
5391 
5392@TK
5393Then why don't we help them get jobs, not free money? If we get them a job, they can benefit society AND make money. Like I said dozens of times before, the ones who CANT work can receive free money, but thats all. Teach a man to fish. You can't expect society to give to you if you dont give back.
5394 
5395@minsheme
5396I agree with that guys video, and coming from a disabled guy, it's really powerful. This guy presents a great viewpoint, and it should seriously be considered.
5397
5398==================================================
5399
5400Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/03 08:10
5401
5402@Minsheme
5403I trust that most people are greedy enough to want more than a small apartment and some cheap meals to occupy their time with. I also trust that most of those are lazy enough to find a hobby they can make some extra money with like basket weaving or whatever.
5404
5405@amazingdude
5406It doesn't have to be money, it could just be a care package with the essentials- like the kind they drop in Africa sans malaria medicines. Plus it's really hard to hear back from a job offer if you don't have a phone number and/or house address; speaking from experience, almost nobody actually uses the email address on a resume to get in contact. I got a physical letter once, but not 1 in 17 applications resulted in an email.
5407
5408==================================================
5409
5410Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/03 09:11
5411
5412@skyk https://pastebin.com/JCApqGFR
5413
5414What is unethical exactly? As Brennan says, it's now normal to claim that a disabled life should be no less full than any other life. I see no way around the fact that this perniciously devalues everyone who isn't disabled.
5415 
5416As far as I can tell, his ideal was that disabled lives are a backwards part of society and if it could be done in the flick of a switch they should all be removed. The rest is about implementation and handling the momentum of the system we have now (there are countless gears set in motion that would need to go in the opposite direction).
5417
5418==================================================
5419
5420amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/03 09:25
5421
5422@TK
5423That might work well in a socialist society, but we're not socialist. The problem with that is that it will motivate them to stay unemployed. "Why should I work if I get fed for free and have all this time to walk around and do shit?" Thats not solving a problem, thats avoiding it altogether. Lack of work is the cause of poverty, and by giving the care packages to everyone who is unemployed, able to work or not, your incentivizing them to not work.
5424
5425If email is their only option to contact, they will use it. The reason you didnt get an email was because you supplied phone and house address. If you didnt, they would have contacted by email.
5426
5427==================================================
5428
5429Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/03 17:36
5430
5431https://pastebin.com/A5Tcv5pU
5432
5433All that a capitalist society requires is a system of Haves and Have Nots to fuel the endless exchange of money for goods, there's no reason the thing that Have Nots don't have should be their lives. Think about how boring it would actually be to have the bare minimum and a clear mind that isn't 100% focused on surviving the here-and-now. No books, electronics, coffee, restaurant meals, games, art supplies, furniture, fancy cars, music, candy, pastries, etc. Plus it takes money to maintain and replace a lot of the luxuries already owned, somebody that spends every day jogging around town will end up going through a lot of running shoes that probably only get replaced by the State once every few years.
5434
5435==================================================
5436
5437Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/04 05:25
5438
5439TK https://pastebin.com/DK8ySeM4
5440
5441That was conflicting. Marxist dismissal of capitalism followed by "life would suck if [Marxist society]". What you're suggesting about primal survival, quelling boredom etc is pretty naturalistic and therefore conservative. That also calls back to the first sentence "fuelling the endless exchange of money", I don't know why that's written like it's something negative, but what actually fuels it if anything is markets, largely rooted in naturalism, and they exist so that "lives can be unboring" among whatever else. The alternative is to supplement the fruits of people's lives through the state.
5442
5443==================================================
5444
5445Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/04 10:46
5446
5447https://pastebin.com/YAng2FVe
5448
5449I'm actually a constructivist, not sure where you got the idea that I'm a Marxist. I would say an endless exchange of money for goods is the definition of a stable market, people wouldn't be trading things if it didn't benefit them in some way.
5450
5451==================================================
5452
5453Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/04 11:39
5454
5455Just from "haves and have nots", it seems to be common in Marxism/its followers and I assumed it came from oppressor vs oppressed.
5456
5457==================================================
5458
5459amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/04 11:50
5460
5461@TK
5462If they want to live a fuller life, then they should give back to society by working. Trumps wall will create tons of jobs.
5463
5464==================================================
5465
5466Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/04 12:00
5467
5468For crying out loud, TK. Endless e.xhange was the problem both times.
5469
5470==================================================
5471
5472U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#KbsngwXs 2017/09/04 13:32
5473
5474How about have ha55ii add delete comments? That way you can send deletion requests to hate comments and of they get more than 10 deletion requests in a day, it will get removed. ONLY in PG1 and PG2 comments. In other comment sections hardly anyone goes there.
5475
5476==================================================
5477
5478amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/04 14:16
5479
5480@U Have 2 Vote
5481I disagree with that idea. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. They may be dragged into a 4 month long debate or absolutely roasted, but they have the right to their opinion. I can choose not to believe in man made global warming, or TK can be a socialist, but we both have the same right to our opinion, right or wrong.
5482
5483Deletion by vote is a form of censorship, and ANY form of censorship is bad. If your proposal was implemented, the CB would turn into an echo chamber of popular opinions with no real discussion.
5484
5485==================================================
5486
5487Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/04 17:52
5488
5489@Minsheme
5490Haves produce and sell resources in excess, Have Nots consume and purchase resources when they want something. It's the most basic class system that can exist and likely the most fair to the lower class because it doesn't imply divine right or some other nonsense.
5491
5492@amazingdude
5493At best the Wall is a bandage, it's not going to be in construction forever, most of the country's homeless have no way to travel that far south, and when construction's done it'll require far less civilian effort to maintain. And of course, it's not going to be very effective at its stated purpose. A better project for temporary construction jobs would be repairing and expanding Eisenhower's interstate system, which is definitely useful but falling apart in more rural areas that can't afford to maintain more than gravel roads.
5494
5495==================================================
5496
54979132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/04 23:37
5498
5499Out of all the states to suffer, we are the worst. I live in Arizona and half the people don't even speak english. Do you know how hard it is hearing someone say"Your brother died in Nogales trying to defend himself in the middle of a warzone?" We need the wall to protect our country from bloodthirsty illegalls.
5500
5501==================================================
5502
5503amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/05 02:46
5504
5505https://pastebin.com/a5bbupYL
5506
5507==================================================
5508
5509@TK
5510I still think the wall is a better idea, coming from a place where illegals are almost the majority. We've let too many of them in and they're replacing US citizens, taking our jobs, our tax dollars, and multiply like spiders. People wonder why so many people move out of California, this is why. California is slowly being turned into Mexico, and all the Americans are moving out because of it. It sounds racist, but it's true: Many parts of the southwest US are being overrun by illegal immigrants, and we need to do something about it. "We are a nation of immigrants". IMMIGRANTS, not refugees. We shouldnt have to take care of everyone just because their country has problems.
5511 
5512Diversity's great, but not when half the population doesnt even bother to learn our culture and come here legally, and are almost turning us into Mexico. We cant just let millions of people come into our country uncontrolled. Their country is fucked up, but that doesnt give them the right to migrate all their people somewhere else for free. Thats running away from their problem and not facing it. As a US citizen, I felt like my government didnt care about me anymore. People who come illegally are getting better treatment than real US citizens who have been here for generations. I'm pissed at Obama for letting it happen, and at least Trump wants to do something about it.
5513 
5514Birthright citizenship needs to be updated for the 21st centry. You shouldnt be able to climb a fence, pop out a baby, and climb back over and have that baby be considered just as American as you or me.
5515 
5516Maybe you'll understand, maybe you'll think I'm a xenophobic bigot, but the undenyable truth is that mass migration destroys the native population and culture. Ever heard of Columbus? I dont mean to compare the illegal immigration crisis to the native american genocide, but you get my point.
5517 
5518Never thought about improving the interstate highway system. I'd love to have that done. How much more plausible is that than a wall?
5519 
5520@9132
5521What part of Arizona are you from? If your brother really did die, I feel really bad for you and angry at the government.
5522
5523==================================================
5524
5525Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/05 08:06
5526
5527https://pastebin.com/qzZitnMA
5528
55291) Being illegal they generally don't have the paperwork for any job that's over-the-table, under-the-table jobs themselves are quite illegal so that's reason to pressure employers for preferring tax fraud to fair business practices rather than the employees for doing what they can when they can.
5530 
55312) I agree, proof of citizenship or at least documentation of going through what is apparently a 5 year (minimum) process should be a requirement for receiving social security benefits, etc. if it isn't already.
5532 
55333) No reason to be mean, I imagine the birthrate isn't that drastically off from any other predominantly Catholic population.
5534 
55354) I was under the impression that the US's war prizes from the Mexican-American war have always had predominantly Mexican populations, how do you tell who's broadcasting their illegality and who just has a large amount of pride in their cultural heritage?
5536 
55375) Yes, absolutely none of our major immigration waves were refugees fleeing from countries with problems, certainly not the original Puritan colonists, victims of the Irish Potato Famine, thousands from Imperial China that had basically never heard of democracy or life outside of a caste system, a few million Jews fleeing Eastern Europe, or still more refugees fleeing from a significantly more war-torn Europe, Soviet Union, and Cuba. No, all of our ancestors came from places without any problems. /s
5538 
55396) Stages of grief as applied to culture shock, they don't want to admit that they were forced to basically give up on their homeland and leave, so they choose to "deny" it pretend it's still Mexico. Lots of foreign nationals all over the world end up doing the same thing for their respective cultures of origin; their kids and their kids' kids will probably be just as American as the next guy if history continues to repeat itself.
5540 
55417) Agreed, though I'm having trouble imagining a suitable replacement that wouldn't be draconian.
5542 
55438) Don't worry about it, I almost never write people off as bigoted, I might wonder at whether they have anything to gain politically or financially for doing something I perceive as pointlessly aggressive but usually I figure they're having a bad day.
5544 
55459) Actually about 70% of the native population were already dead before the SmallPox blanket thing Andrew Jackson did. Patient Zero for the plague is thought to have been a slave on a Spanish ship about 200 years before the first boat full of Englishmen arrived. And since the dominant medical theory of the time claimed that bad smells or "miasma" were responsible for disease and "germs" were unprovable nonsense only quacks believed in, most of the genocide was completely by accident.
5546 
554710) Well they're all over the country rather than just across the southern border, so it'd take at least 5 times more labor to get it done. Or something, probably more or less depending on conditions between states. And since the original Interstate system was mostly concerned with maintaining order after a hypothetical nuclear apocalypse, what we have isn't prepared for the sort of things we've been needing it for.
5548 
5549Like the hurricane in Houston, the reason there wasn't an evacuation before it hit was because the last time Houston evacuated for a hurricane it resulted in a massive traffic jam on the highway and hundreds of people died in their cars. If the Interstate were constructed with evacuations in mind then that probably wouldn't have happened and the current flood would probably be more of an inconvenience than anything life-threatening.
5550
5551==================================================
5552
5553amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/05 09:06
5554
5555https://pastebin.com/vFsXbeKz
5556
5557@TK
5558 
55591. Many of them use fake documents to get work. Even still many work under the table and dont pay taxes. Companies are desperate for labor.
5560 
55612. It probably already is, however they stil give it anyway, or they use fake documents.
5562 
55633. Last I checked hispanics have the highest birth rates out of any group in the country.
5564 
55654. I thought the same, however looking at demographics on Wikipedia shows the entire southwest getting more hispanic every 10 years since 1970, when the category was added to the census. After a few generations, immigrants become fully assimilated. For example, Most white Americans arent celebrating the Queen's birthday or other Eurpoean traditions anymore. With all this, I find it hard to believe that most people in these areas have been there for hundreds of years ever since the Spanish founded the colonies. The culture is just too strong.
5566 
55675. Never thought about that. I always thought people came here because they loved America and wanted to make it better, not just running away from their horrible country.
5568 
55696. That actually makes alot of sense, however pretending you're still in the country you fled isn't very healthy.
5570 
55717. I've got a proposal. Anyone born in the US would be considered a citizen if one of their parents was a citizen. That means if people immigrate legally from another country, become citizens and have a child, that child is a US citizen. However if somebody climbs the fence, pops out a baby, then climbs back over, that baby is not a citizen. At this point in history, the US has a natural population, and citizenship should follow. European countries dont have automatic birthright citizenship. I also believe the idea of a "melting pot" is outdated. We are our own country, with a unique identity and culture. The melting pot has cooled.
5572 
5573This does not solve the problem with anchor babies already born, however, but that issue has no good solution. They shouldnt be here, but they've lived here all their lives, so deportation isnt really right either. We can solve illegal immigration, but the damage has already be done.
5574 
55758. Reddit is a liberal echo chamber, say anything slightly right of center you'll get destroyed, downvoted, and banned. So is my home city.
5576 
55779. Interesting.
5578 
557910. Widening freeways wont make it much faster in evacuations. Crowds dont cause traffic, Lane changers do. Even still, 4 lanes going 5mph is better than 2 lanes going 5mph. How exactly would we better prepare our roads for mass evacuation? I support your idea of upgrading the interstate highway system, but I just dont know how it will be done. Only thing I can think of is reversible lanes and bidirectional signage. Safer bridges and flood prevention perhaps?
5580
5581==================================================
5582
5583Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/07 02:25
5584
5585https://pastebin.com/CBY9HuZ7
5586
5587
55881&2) If companies are so desperate for labor, how can there still a shortage of jobs among citizens? They get to pick who they hire and if they choose someone with sketchy documentation who will work for half or less of minimum wage that's on them for being vultures.
5589 
55903now2) Is that counting people who specifically got pregnant to have a kid north of the border? Because I feel like gaming the system like that would throw off a lot of fertility statistics.
5591 
55924now3) Most white Americans are actually ethnically German, about 46 million as of 2014. In 1910 German was the second most spoken first language in the country, it only changed in the wake of WW1 and WW2 when everything German was stigmatized. In any case, hamburgers, hotdogs, kindergartens, and Christmas trees are still just as ubiquitous in the US as they were in the 1800s. Just as I imagine tortillas, sugar breads, and (I dunno, Dia de los Muertos? That's bombastic enough already I'm surprised it's not here by now.) will probably be ubiquitous in the 2100s.
5593 
55947now4) That could work, there's some precedence with older immigration law that requires a spouse/family member already living here to vouch for immigrant hopefuls, short be short work to stretch that definition over fetuses.
5595 
559610now5) I was thinking of adding more exit/entry lanes onto it. Like, I live right on I-5 and it's the only way onto the network from my city without taking some backroads to the next town- despite city limits sprawling over two different counties. If there were say, if there were any reason to evacuate the people living in the "back" would have to wait for everybody else to leave first, but with more entries onto the highway spread more evenly across every population center there'd be less rush to get to any one in particular and traffic flow would improve drastically. I think. My only experience with traffic design is from Sim City.
5597
5598==================================================
5599
5600amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/07 08:41
5601
5602@TK
5603
56041. They still take the risk by hiring them, and many use fake documents as described as before. Maybe they even cover it up and lie about their legality status to the government. Companies will take major risks to make profits.
5605
56062. I'd assume so, as its out of all births in the US. It could also be that in interracial marriages with a hispanic, the baby is considered hispanic, as opposed to mixed, in other interracial marriages.
5607
56083. Already are in some areas, no doubt all around in 80 years. It's almost as if history is repeating itself, except with mexican culture. I personally disagree with it, but its happening.
5609
56105. I agree with that. We do need more exits on our freeways, however not too much, as that would just make traffic worse on normal days. No more than 1 exit per mile. While we're at it, let's upgrade freeway interchanges to be full access, so you dont have to take side streets to get on the right freeway direction.
5611
5612==================================================
5613
5614{No reply to the above comment}
5615
5616==================================================
5617
5618amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/08 13:07
5619
5620As an object gets larger, it looks larger. As an object gets further away, it looks smaller. If it is infinately large (A strech plane), it will cover exactly 1/2 of the possible angles you can view it from. If an object is infinately far away, it will vanish.
5621
5622If an infinately large object is infinately far away, what the hell happens?
5623
5624==================================================
5625
5626Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/08 17:50
5627
5628You see nothing, of course. Same reasoning for why the stretch plane covers 1/2.
5629
5630==================================================
5631
5632Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/08 21:52
5633
5634@amazingdude
5635I know where this is from. If the object is infinitely far away, light takes an infinite amount of time to reflect off of the wall and reach your eyes, so you would not see it.
5636
5637When you ignore this, you have to be careful. Infinity is not a set number, so every time we use it we treat it as a general amount relative to everything else. Because of this, it depends (the ratio to the wall to its distance away is indeterminate). If the wall had a surface area of א_one units and it was a distance of א_naught units, then we would be able to see it because its size vastly overwhelms its distance. If it's the other way around, we would not be able to see it because the distance vastly overwhelms its size. The infinity is still there because א_naught and א_one both represent infinity.
5638
5639==================================================
5640
5641OwenDaPanda				#VYQpyVtv 2017/09/08 22:06
5642
5643There is some deep shit going on here
5644
5645==================================================
5646
5647U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#E2nuHWpX 2017/09/08 22:29
5648
5649@amazingdude that doesn't make sense because you can't divide infinity by infinity. 
5650
5651==================================================
5652
5653amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/09 07:26
5654
5655So does anyone wish to continue the Great PG2 Debate?
5656amazingdude #padtckOV 2017/09/07 08:41
5657
5658==================================================
5659
5660U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#ZiAQL0tb 2017/09/09 07:38
5661
5662@amazingdude Nobody needs to be in the Great PG2 Debate. It just might start a big argument and possibly a "war" like in PG1.
5663
5664==================================================
5665
5666amazingdude				#N1hn3TpZ 2017/09/09 10:34
5667
5668The debate is so long, the limit swallowed the beginning.
5669Also, comments aren't really deleted. Some dude found comments going back years hidden in dbs servers
5670
5671so the debate is officially over then :(
5672I was hoping to set a record.
5673
5674==================================================
5675
5676Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/09 12:40
5677
5678Still, I'm game for more debating if there's still any ground to cover. Last one kind of petered out into "I agree with this" "me too", and at that point you may as well just find a mirror to agree with.
5679
5680==================================================
5681
5682amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/09 12:44
5683
5684Someone give us debate topics. Let the Great PG2 Debate live on!!!
5685
5686==================================================
5687
5688Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/09 12:55
5689
5690Who do you believe: Newton, Leibniz, or was it Archimedes all along?
5691
5692==================================================
5693
5694OmegaPirate				#ThE7mUFZ 2017/09/09 13:21
5695
5696It was all aliens, Draco.
5697
5698==================================================
5699
5700Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/09 15:04
5701
5702Kind of funny how the solution to "what do you see if an object is infinitely far away" puzzle could contradict the one about an infinite stretch plane covering 1/2. It would never reach 1/2 if light had to travel infinitely. I thought this was just a hypothetical so things like light wouldn't be taken into account.
5703
5704==================================================
5705
5706CapsLock				#KirKIu4r 2017/09/09 16:07
5707
5708Bush did 911
5709there, thats a debate topic ;)
5710
5711==================================================
5712
5713Minsheme				#l0aS2Xd2 2017/09/09 17:41
5714
5715Depends what the "Bush" entity means. Yes, Jews did 9/11 and Bush happened to be the nominal leader at the time.
5716
5717==================================================
5718
5719amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/09 23:59
5720
5721@capslock
5722Well not specifically Bush, I do believe there is more to it than just 19 terrorists hijacking passenger planes. For example, pilots had to be involved in training the hijackers, or maybe even being the hijackers themselves. Perhaps there were explosives planted on the planes. Something just doesnt seem right about the official story.
5723
5724==================================================
5725
5726Torture King			#TI3DWoRg 2017/09/10 01:11
5727
5728It's a matter of public record that they were in fact trained by US forces, about 3 decades before 9/11 as a way to hassle the USSR's interests in the middle east. That's also around the time Bin Laden's posse was radicalized into perceiving any and all foreign involvement in the middle east as colonialism- because at the time the Pentagon was still more concerned about potential dangers of communism than making and arming over a dozen xenophobic lunatics.
5729
5730==================================================
5731
5732OmegaPirate				#ThE7mUFZ 2017/09/10 04:25
5733
5734If you don't know, blame it on one of these three things:
5735Jews
5736ISIS
5737Obama/Trump
5738
5739==================================================
5740
5741Vidkunssonn				#6gkHelVa 2017/09/10 04:53
5742
5743I blame Jaden. It's all Jaden's fault.
5744
5745==================================================
5746
57479132					#Nl3t12Mz 2017/09/10 04:56
5748
5749Who the hell is Jaden?
5750
5751==================================================
5752
5753amazingdude				#padtckOV 2017/09/10 05:12
5754
5755@TK
5756So 9/11 is our own da,mn fault. fucking lovely.
5757
5758==================================================
5759
5760Dracobot				#iWOBESYY 2017/09/10 11:53
5761
5762Continuum Hypothesis: true or false?
5763
5764==================================================
5765
5766U HAVE 2 VOTE!!!		#5mbMD9a9 2017/09/12 12:33
5767
5768Don't put puzzles or opinions unrelated to PG in the comments. They start arguments.
5769
5770==================================================
5771
5772skyk					#vSbAiI0H 2017/09/12 12:43
5773
5774Comments 2017/06/08 to 2017/09/12
5775https://pastebin.com/VQ1748Cn
5776
5777==================================================
5778
5779
5780
5781==================================================