7HahGRHX

1 
2Keening2019-10-07
3idk why most guides neglect & put aside the passive strength of thrill of the hunt, even if it's just hunter-crits those are the ones that matter to trigger barbed shot with a dance of death build. Gale-Force Striking actually sims the highest for me for the same reason. like 7-9% increased critical chance in the same timeframe compared to not running any scope/wep enchant.
4so total like 18% higher chance to trigger another barbed
5 
6Azortharion2019-10-07
7Because it's bad
8Does thrill and gale force sim higher than crows/crows (heh) for you single target?
9 
10Keening2019-10-07
11yes
12well
13not crows
14crows sims higher single target
15but gale sims higher than any other enchant
16 
17Azortharion2019-10-07
18Sure. But not thrill. Is it even close?
19 
20Keening2019-10-07
21yes
221k behind
23 
24Azortharion2019-10-07
25Link
26Lol
27How the f is that close
28 
29Keening2019-10-07
30let me give you a link
31 
32Kieya2019-10-07
33close is subjective azor :kappa:
34 
35Azortharion2019-10-07
36I guess it is
37 
38Toth is real2019-10-07
39it's close relative to other talents
40I guess XD
41 
42Azortharion2019-10-07
43Is it?
44 
45Toth is real2019-10-07
46closer than chimaera for me iirc
47 
48Keening2019-10-07
49keep in mind, to actually get the benefit of that extra 600-1k it gives, you need to land it perfectly.
50 
51Azortharion2019-10-07
52Ki and ac are closer. Kc and aotb are closer. Chimaera is probably closer if you build around it a bit
53 
54Toth is real2019-10-07
55crow also has extra value from resets
56
57 
58Azortharion2019-10-07
59Resets are not common in raids let's be real
60 
61Kieya2019-10-07
62Thrill of the hunt is probably closer if you build around it a bit
63drop crit, stack haste it probably would be
64 
65Azortharion2019-10-07
66How are you gonna build around thrill when it's only remotely because of the current build paradigm to begin with?
67 
68Kieya2019-10-07
69im mostly just being facetious
70lol
71 
72Azortharion2019-10-07
73No because you need crit to maintain the crit too :Joy4:
74 
75Emlis2019-10-07
76@Keening how many dod traits are you running btw
77 
78Keening2019-10-07
792
80I'll give you raidbots in a second
81 
82Emlis2019-10-07
83I'd resim gale and crows once you get 3
84As your gear sucks if you don't have 3 dods
85 
86Keening2019-10-07
87it doesnt suck, it just doesnt have the last 1.9% upgrade that the 'sim' gives me getting cannoners shoulderpads
88 
89Azortharion2019-10-07
90Sucks is relative too I guess :slight_smile:
91 
92Emlis2019-10-07
931.9% is a lot
94 
95Keening2019-10-07
96yes it's a lot
97but it's also 1.9%
98 
99Azortharion2019-10-07
1001k is like 2% as well but apparently that qualifies as "close" for Toth :Joy3:
101 
102Emlis2019-10-07
103And ilvl downgrade with dod would be a nice upgrade, assuming you have a decent amount of crit
104 
105Keening2019-10-07
106No it won't
107simming 2.5k below single target
108 
109Emlis2019-10-07
110How low is this item lmao
111 
112Toth is real2019-10-07
113:thinking:
114 
115Azortharion2019-10-07
116Link that too pls
117 
118Kieya2019-10-07
119only other dod piece is 385 ilvl emlis
120 
121Emlis2019-10-07
122Sounds like it
123
124 
125Kieya2019-10-07
126:Kappa:
127 
128Keening2019-10-07
129https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/32813qwbvuGZSJdeWDMPMG 
130
131with crow, crow's nest sims highest.
132with thrill, gale sims highest.
133
134with thrill & gale vs crow & crow I do 50.757 dps, compared to 51.4k with the crow crow setup
135Raidbots
136Top Gear - Adventuring - 51,434 DPS - Raidbots
137
138 
139Kieya2019-10-07
140so the answer to "is your gear bad" was yes
141 
142Poon Tangler2019-10-07
143Can you tag azor when his name is gone?
144 
145Kieya2019-10-07
146sure why not
147@Azor
148 
149Poon Tangler2019-10-07
150Ooo
151 
152Azortharion2019-10-07
153I don't see thrill in this sim, maybe it's because I'm on phone.
154 
155Keening2019-10-07
156thrill is equipped atm
157 
158Azortharion2019-10-07
159Ah just had to compare to top gear
160So basically the guides aren't neglecting anything other than thrill and gale being significantly worse in pretty much every scenario
161That's all I wanted to clarify since I don't want the guides to be missing important stuff
162 
163Keening2019-10-07
164Crow is another cd to keep in mind, and it can't be significantly worse if i'm parsing 98% with the setup I have with my "sucky gear"
165it's just a lot simplier to play, and it keeps frenzy up 24/7
166 
167Azortharion2019-10-07
168Well, it's around 800 dps worse isn't it?
169 
170Keening2019-10-07
171and lowers  bw cd more often than the crow setup.
172 
173Kieya2019-10-07
174you're talking about your heroic parses
175which is pretty irrelevant for comparison
176 
177Azortharion2019-10-07
178Not gonna make the difference between one parse level to the other. Fact is that it's worse and that's why it's not in the guide
179 
180Keening2019-10-07
181680 dps
182 
183Azortharion2019-10-07
184And yeah if you're talking heroic parse then it's a giant meme anyway and by no means impressive or vaguely indicative of a good build
185 
186Emlis2019-10-07
187@Keening Do you have "always use" ticked for agi gems?
188
189 
190Kieya2019-10-07
191i could probably take dire beast, scent of blood, venomous bite, stampede and spitting cobra and still orange parse in heroic
192 
193Poon Tangler2019-10-07
194Yes!
195:pepegiggle:
196 
197Keening2019-10-07
198Emlis yes, the difference is minimal, the 50 crit socket would sim like +-5 dps
199 
200Emlis2019-10-07
201untick it
202there's no reason to have it ticked
203as your gear gets better, it will get worse
204if it sims the same, just go crit gem
205 
206Keening2019-10-07
207the above sim is just something i clicked in all haste to link here
208 
209Emlis2019-10-07
210because crit gem will get better than agi as time goes on
211yes just a tip for future
212 
213Keening2019-10-07
214thx
215 
216Azortharion2019-10-07
217All good things take time and we both know that your idea would only look worse with a crit gem
218 
219Kieya2019-10-07
220im curious now to what point does toth have to be buffed to get better
221would probably be better at 4% per stack tbh
222 
223Toth is real2019-10-07
224it's not "that" far off
225 
226Azortharion2019-10-07
227Maybe thrill and gale could do well in fortified keys
228 
229Scoteh2019-10-07
230Doesnt it just need to affect pets and suddenly it's fine?
231 
232Kieya2019-10-07
233probably
234 
235Toth is real2019-10-07
236It's probably quite strong if it affects pets
237 
238Kieya2019-10-07
239actually thats like definitely yes
240 
241Azortharion2019-10-07
242Or maybe not since m+ damage is so beast cleave heavy
243 
244Scoteh2019-10-07
245Like it's just fundamentally flawed for a pet spec
246 
247Keening2019-10-07
248try it before you neglect it guys, it's just so much smoother playing without crows, nor ever have to worry about frenzy falling off
249 
250Kieya2019-10-07
251i mean
252is hitting 1 button like 6 times a fight really that rough
253 
254Emlis2019-10-07
255You don't have to worry about frenzy falling off in the current build @Keening
256because it doesn't matter
257you focus on dance of death uptime
258you never focus your rotation around frenzy uptime
259 
260Kieya2019-10-07
261you're also neglecting that its buffed by bw and aotw
262 
263Azortharion2019-10-07
264The guide isn't based on what feels good :GWaobloChildPepeShrug: so maybe don't imply that the guide is somehow "neglecting" a good build when really you've just found a meme build that does a bit less dps for a bit less effort.
265 
266Keening2019-10-07
267look, I wouldnt be coming here suggesting what i'm suggesting if i didnt try both
268 
269Kieya2019-10-07
270the issue is you're talking based on "feel" whereas the sims are actual math
271
272 
273Keening2019-10-07
274also, I don't see your name so I can't really say it in a nicer way, but goatface: you should jump off that horse. thx
275 
276Azortharion2019-10-07
277Sure but it's not like you have much to show for having tried it
278 
279Toth is real2019-10-07
280"goatface"
281 
282Kieya2019-10-07
283goatface
284 
285Azortharion2019-10-07
286Except a 98th percentile parse in heroic which most people here get in their sleep
287 
288Poon Tangler2019-10-07
289:POGGERS:
290 
291Emlis2019-10-07
292@Keening you should look into the rotation again, if you think frenzy uptime is something for you to think about, if you're judging how the rotation feels in relation to frenzy, you sound like you're doing the rotation incorrectly
293 
294Scoteh2019-10-07
295:Pepega:
296 
297Kieya2019-10-07
298not even kidding i could probably get a 98 on heroic sivara with my eyes closed
299 
300Poon Tangler2019-10-07
301:pepegiggle: I couldn't sleep. This is why. I needed to see this
302 
303Azortharion2019-10-07
304I don't know what high horse you mean. You landed a criticism against my guide and I'm responding to it. If you don't wanna deal with a bit of snark at a bad suggestion then try to word your feedback in different tones maybe
305 
306Kieya2019-10-07
307i was going to go to sleep
308but now im glad i didnt
309 
310Scoteh2019-10-07
311(I dont think he realises you wrote the guide)
312 
313Keening2019-10-07
314bro, let me quote myself: 
315
316"idk why most guides neglect & put aside the passive strength of thrill of the hunt, even if it's just hunter-crits those are the ones that matter to trigger barbed shot with a dance of death build. Gale-Force Striking actually sims the highest for me for the same reason. like 7-9% increased critical chance in the same timeframe compared to not running any scope/wep enchant.
317so total like 18% higher chance to trigger another barbed"
318 
319Poon Tangler2019-10-07
320@goatface did you write the guide?
321
322Keening2019-10-07
323I wasnt criticizing a single guide
324 
325Kieya2019-10-07
326uh
327it sounds like you were criticizing a few
328 
329Emlis2019-10-07
330Icy veins is the bm hunter guide
331wowhead is an attempt at a bm hunter guide
332 
333Keening2019-10-07
334look, all i'm saying is that there is a lot of new players out there who struggle to optimize & get the most of the guide YOU wrote.
335 
336Emlis2019-10-07
337every other guide is pretty terrible
338 
339Azortharion2019-10-07
340You've presented your evidence which is good, the consensus overwhelmingly seems to be that crows isn't hard to use and 700 dps (which would probably be a bigger gap for people with good gear) is a thicc pill to swallow for not having to deal with crows.
341
342I read what you said. Whether you address a single guide or guides in general is irrelevant lol, I think I speak for all guide writers when I say that people criticizing their work for neglecting meme builds gets annoying after a few years.
343
344People struggling with bm are not struggling with crows usage. I like to think I know this better than you because people occasionally pay me to tell them what they can improve on
345 
346Keening2019-10-07
347I'm gently putting forward, while constantly being bashed i might add, that there is a smoother easier way to obtain high numbers. sure, argue all you want but if you're a new player you're looking for that easy way to increase your dps-output to help your raid
348consensus in here yes
349 
350Azortharion2019-10-07
351Meaning I see what mistakes people usually make, all across the board
352 
353Keening2019-10-07
354the people aruing and opening their mouth right now, are like me. Loooooong time players.
355 
356Emlis2019-10-07
357If you think it's smoother, you don't understand the current rotation @Keening 
358Again, your reasoning is 
359#1 pressing a cooldown once every minute 
360#2 frenzy, which isn't something you play around in your rotation
361
362 
363Kieya2019-10-07
364https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eYGcwsMxXeL99SEu8Gxu43 with actually good gear toth and gale force is like -1.2k dps
365 
366Keening2019-10-07
367Emlis, please... don't patronize me ok? I know the friggen rotation with crows, lol.
368 
369chonka2019-10-07
370man there are a lot builds like yours where you loose a lot of dps but why would you use that
371 
372Azortharion2019-10-07
373Well sure, maybe tsl is just an echo chamber.. But you do realize how stupid "oh there are people who agree with me but they are new players that stay quiet" sounds right?
374
375People don't even know what they struggle with half the time. Even if someone says they have crows issues, 99% of the time that's not their biggest or even second biggest problem.
376 
377Keening2019-10-07
378chonka most bosses aren't a target dummy without adds
379 
380chonka2019-10-07
381on adds crows even gets better if you can reset
382 
383Ghosteld2019-10-07
384https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/23#class=Hunter&spec=BeastMastery&combatantinfo=Talents&tier=4&difficulty=4&aggregate=amount :monkaHmmm:
385 
386Keening2019-10-07
387if the adds survive long enough yes, or you're just spamming gcd's
388 
389Azortharion2019-10-07
390Doesn't matter. The sim doesn't get crows reset. So even worst case on an add boss you'll get the sim value out of it. Maybe you can get more with some resets, that's all.
391 
392Toth is real2019-10-07
393Crows has the burst value too (delirium za'qul, hulks on azshara etc)
394 
395Poon Tangler2019-10-07
396Why can't we have a glyph to change crows to bees?
397 
398Azortharion2019-10-07
399Even so I don't think efficient resets are all that common anyway so it's kind of a pointless avenue to pursue. Everyone saying "oh but you can reset crows and get extra value on x, y and z", and then you check their logs and they never do it themselves. Which begs the question of why they expect others to
400 
401Ghosteld2019-10-07
402Vectis :pogThat:
403
404 
405Kieya2019-10-07
406@Poon Tangler https://www.wowhead.com/item=170173/glyph-of-dire-bees dont worry just take the dire beast talent thats easier to use and now comes with bees
407 
408Poon Tangler2019-10-07
409:weSmart:
410 
411Keening2019-10-07
412Tarlo, not arguing against hulks on azshara, not arguing against delir, not arguing against situation stuff... 
413
414all i'm saying is that i'm pondering and putting forward the question as to why there isnt, not even in the "newbie sections" any guides suggesting gale & toth, at all.. as a simplistic way to get more out of your character: Especially in mythic + & raidcontent with a lot of adds.
415 
416chonka2019-10-07
417you can see toth being used for padding on zaqul but other than that crows just does a lot of dmg
418 
419Keening2019-10-07
420instead I get someone that is butthurt in my face
421 
422Jacobo2019-10-07
423Excuse the interruption, but is it always better to at least have one agility gem in your sockets. Or do some people only have crit gems?
424 
425Emlis2019-10-07
426@Keening Btw, if your gear was good, Toth+Crows beats Toth+Gale
427 
428Damkus2019-10-07
429a lot of people have crit only, sim it @Jacobo
430 
431Poon Tangler2019-10-07
432Sim it my friend
433 
434Emlis2019-10-07
435going on about gale isn't helping your case much
436gale sims competitively for you because you only have 2 dods
437which is currently very bad for BM
438you want 3
439and if you don't have 3, yeah your gear is not good
440 
441Jacobo2019-10-07
442@Damkus appreciate it
443
444Azortharion2019-10-07
445Well the real answer is most guide authors don't know about it. But I know about it at least and the reason I don't have it is because crows isn't hard to use and the damage penalty is too great compared to how much easier it is.
446
447You realize there's a kind of self contradiction in what you say anyway right? Newbies are not gonna have a lot of dod items most of the time, they are not gonna have a lot of crit to make gale worth it.. Many of them can't even use owtp because they don't have the crit/dods.
448
449So for the newbies your build is probably even worse.
450 
451Keening2019-10-07
452crow, the enchant that is. is very patchy, if you're using a certain number of "barbed shots" before the cooldown is ready for another application, you're in the gutter if you don't get another barbtrigger.
453
454guess what i'm saying is that gale is more consistent in the way of barb-triggers over 3-4 minute fight
455 
456Jacobo2019-10-07
457Guess I'll have to remember to uncheck the always use box
458 
459Poon Tangler2019-10-07
460Uncheck it!
461 
462Emlis2019-10-07
463:monkaHmm:
464 
465Azortharion2019-10-07
466Yeah and gale force is also rng. Saying that an rng mechanic is rng is a complete non-statement
467 
468Damkus2019-10-07
469what a fascinating discussion
470 
471Keening2019-10-07
47250% uptime
473 
474Yuuseki2019-10-07
475@Keening why toth specifically?
476
477 
478Emlis2019-10-07
479sims account for this shit man
480 
481Damkus2019-10-07
482the gears in my head are really turning like the profile picture of this  dude
483 
484chonka2019-10-07
485gale is almost as good with crows also m8
486 
487Keening2019-10-07
488to not have to worry about maximizing the use of crows. since the toth is entirely passive, it makes sense.
489 
490Kieya2019-10-07
491i can see the appeal of the talent, its passive, you want to use frenzy anyways so its most always going to be up, and it increases your crit which funnels back into keeping frenzy/dod up, your methods arent substantial though. all of your arguments are based off of your character and feelycrafting
492 
493Keening2019-10-07
494not using crows for 10 seconds here and there will make that 680 dps shrink fast.
495 
496Poon Tangler2019-10-07
497I feel like I should be able to have a transmogged set of melee weapons that are purely cosmetic.
498 
499Azortharion2019-10-07
500Again, I won't even dignify an argument so dumb with a genuine counter argument. Using the rng argument when both options have bad rng potential is just pants on head retarded so you should think of another argument than that one imho
501 
502Scoteh2019-10-07
503I am baffled that anyone would consider "use this once every 60s" as a thing worthy of debate.
504 
505Azortharion2019-10-07
506And no it won't.
507 
508Damkus2019-10-07
509just press the button lol
510
511
512 
513Azortharion2019-10-07
514Delaying crows is only a dps loss if you lose a cast by the end of the fight. Delaying it isn't inherently a dps loss. Another dumb, poorly considered non-argument
515 
516Yuuseki2019-10-07
517@Keening well the truth is, you dont actually have to worry about crows. You can litertaly just use it on CD
518 
519Emlis2019-10-07
520@Keening get a large WA, that pops up when crows is off CD, bam, you won't miss a usage, problem completely solved
521 
522Scoteh2019-10-07
523@Keening honestly see if your entire argument is based around playing poorly then I would say that maximising your dps is a moot point
524 
525Keening2019-10-07
526ok, so why don't you write that in the guide also then Emlis?
527 
528Toth is real2019-10-07
529All the tags
530 
531Azortharion2019-10-07
532It's getting really tiring that you can't make some arguments against our arguments instead of either repeating yourself, or coming up with increasingly lousy, far-fetched arguments
533Because most people don't fuck up crows usage, even bad players. You see how we're going in circles? I covered this point many posts ago
534 
535Keening2019-10-07
536I think we can agree to disagree I guess
537 
538Kieya2019-10-07
539:monkaHmm:
540 
541Keening2019-10-07
542now, at least what i've said is up have been up for discussion which is good
543 
544Scoteh2019-10-07
545"If you forget to kill command during execute, it's better to run animal companion"
546 
547Poon Tangler2019-10-07
548:peeposheriff:
549 
550Keening2019-10-07
551that's just stupid
552
553 
554Azortharion2019-10-07
555And it's been discussed to death and you're too stubborn to just say "yeah implying that this is a guide worthy concern was silly". Maybe one day xd
556 
557Toth is real2019-10-07
558"Losing man tries to settle at a draw"
559 
560Keening2019-10-07
561How many of you have even tried what i'm suggesting? it's like DoD in 8.2 lol... for a LONG time the only valid guide n IV and Whead was chimera chimera chimera
562 
563Yuuseki2019-10-07
564@Keening dont take it personal :p
565 
566Keening2019-10-07
567I don't take it personal
568 
569Kieya2019-10-07
570ive tried what you said
571 
572Poon Tangler2019-10-07
573Nothing personnel
574 
575Kieya2019-10-07
57610,000 times in fact
577 
578Azortharion2019-10-07
579Yeah but at least someone could show up and prove that dod simmed better at leastwith the right setup. You've only proven that it sims a lot worse. So how're they comparable?
580 
581Yuuseki2019-10-07
582Its a significant dps loss in sims, thats why i for one havent tried it
583 
584Kieya2019-10-07
585crows/crows did more dps
586 
587Azortharion2019-10-07
588The proof for dod was WAY stronger.
589
590 
591Silva2019-10-07
592@Keening Im playing meme build, because i dont care for mix/max. Tho azor have right to say that crowns are better and less punishing that toth.
593 
594Keening2019-10-07
595my point is that a sim during PERFECT conditions and over idk how many parses.
596 
597Damkus2019-10-07
598it's true, you could get hit by a brain aneurysm and forget to press crows
599 
600Azortharion2019-10-07
601You're just regurgitating points that have already been argued now..
602 
603Kieya2019-10-07
604yes but that also applies to your sim
605my friend
606 
607Emlis2019-10-07
608any one else try to log on to check talents, just to realise they're still banned for a day?
609:ree:
610 
611Poon Tangler2019-10-07
612:monkathinking~1:
613 
614Kieya2019-10-07
615LOL
616 
617Damkus2019-10-07
618whatd u get banned for wtf
619 
620Silva2019-10-07
621Just let it go fam and enjoy your toth.
622 
623Kieya2019-10-07
624talenting toth probably
625 
626Yuuseki2019-10-07
627for a LONG time the only valid guide n IV and Whead was chimera chimera chimera
628Whats the point you are trying to make?
629 
630Emlis2019-10-07
631I killed low lvl players in booty bay and gadgetzan
632a lot
633 
634Damkus2019-10-07
635is that bannable
636damn
637just say you were roleplaying as the joker
638
639 
640Kieya2019-10-07
641its considered exploiting
642 
643Poon Tangler2019-10-07
644Don't be flagged for WM Wtf
645 
646Kieya2019-10-07
647she did it on classic
648 
649Poon Tangler2019-10-07
650Wait
651 
652Azortharion2019-10-07
653Here's a challenge: make a sim with anyone's character with genuine talents in a genuine situation (for now that will be patchwerk and dungeonslice) where your idea aims within 1% of the usual build
654
655And if you can do that then I will strongly consider making a blurb about it in the guide
656 
657Poon Tangler2019-10-07
658In wow basic?
659 
660Azortharion2019-10-07
661Sims*
662 
663Kieya2019-10-07
664do you remember when i told you it was exploiting emlis :wink:
665 
666Keening2019-10-07
667you wanna remove the variables and make it simple to maximise your dps doing whatever you're doing over and over to get the most of it.
668
669During tbc, before the macro nerf you basically had a macro doing all your shit for you in perfect order, bound to your scrollwheel and whatnot other buttons to unload your finger.
670
671when the possibility to maximize dps fell off at the time they changed the macro-rules, to actually reach those numbers again was a pain in the ass, so you actively tried to change around a bit, remove a skill that only did a lil here a lil there to make it simple, yet efficient.
672 
673Emlis2019-10-07
674i stood in normal guard patrol paths, when guards had passed it, so it's considered "glitch spots to avoid guards for unfair advantages" @Damkus
675 
676Damkus2019-10-07
677wow basic :pepegiggle:
678 
679Moofz2019-10-07
680hello hi I've tried it
681 
682Emlis2019-10-07
683@Kieya I will call you the gamer word
684 
685Kieya2019-10-07
686LOL
687 
688Moofz2019-10-07
689decent on Fort weeks but not worth
690there argument settled
691
692 
693Azortharion2019-10-07
694Man here's the "back in my day" argument
695Literally shoot me
696 
697Keening2019-10-07
698at least then you wouldnt be spewing from that horse.
699 
700Kieya2019-10-07
701which is also the "i played way back in tbc and vanilla so i must be good" argument
702yeah goatface
703 
704Keening2019-10-07
705it's not what i'm trying to say lol
706 
707Poon Tangler2019-10-07
708Well, wow basic doesnt have cool features like the ability to toggle WM off. I can see why they'd have to ban :pepegiggle:
709 
710Moofz2019-10-07
711man I really wanna comment more on this crows vs toth but
712I'm bed soon
713and cba
714 
715Damkus2019-10-07
716nothing wrong with griefing low level players
717 
718Kieya2019-10-07
719jump on moofz
720we've been having a good time
721 
722Azortharion2019-10-07
723If you don't wanna be griefed just don't be low level
724 
725Damkus2019-10-07
726we live in a society
727 
728Poon Tangler2019-10-07
729This has made my sleepless night much more fun.
730
731 
732Emlis2019-10-07
733exactly, level faster and I won't ruin your night
734smh
735 
736Kieya2019-10-07
737im just watching chemistry youtube videos
738this has made those much more interesting
739 
740Azortharion2019-10-07
741I can't believe he thinks my avatar looks like a goat..
742 
743Kieya2019-10-07
744lmao
745 
746Damkus2019-10-07
747:rofl:
748 
749Keening2019-10-07
750I don't believe, I just thought the name was more fitting than lion
751 
752Poon Tangler2019-10-07
753:KEKW:
754 
755Keening2019-10-07
756seriously
757just drop it
758 
759Poon Tangler2019-10-07
760@goatface I need the newbie section of the guide updated
761 
762Keening2019-10-07
763some people can't just take critizism.
764 
765Damkus2019-10-07
766yea, seriously
767 
768Kieya2019-10-07
769uh
770 
771LeoZhekov2019-10-07
772And some people can't provide it, it seems
773 
774Azortharion2019-10-07
775Did you just misattribute my animal identity?
776 
777Ghosteld2019-10-07
778:PepeLaff::goat::point_down::horse:
779 
780Kieya2019-10-07
781everyone knows azor relates more to sheep than goats
782 
783Azortharion2019-10-07
784The equality board will hear of this
785
786 
787Poon Tangler2019-10-07
788Azor's fursona about to go wild
789 
790give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
791Fucking goatface here
792trying to argue that we should press buttons
793Shaking my fucking head
794 
795Kieya2019-10-07
796i wonder what build would have the lowest apm for bm right now
797 
798Martin2019-10-07
799hey guys whats going on in here
800 
801Kieya2019-10-07
802just some good times
803 
804Martin2019-10-07
805I missed it :PepeHands:
806 
807give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
808Im sad I was like
809half an hour late for this
810 
811Kieya2019-10-07
812slight bullying
813 
814give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
815Dude was genuinely arguing that orange in heroic was good
816I get fucking grey azshara parses and all of my heroic bosses are orange
817 
818Kieya2019-10-07
819can i have your autograph
820 
821Emlis2019-10-07
822it's cause of your rotation bot
823 
824give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
825Sure Kieya it can be found here https://discordapp.com/channels/129594743393878017/233915177685352448/629812276374798347
826 
827Emlis2019-10-07
828:nauseated_face: the cringe
829
830 
831Kieya2019-10-07
832heh
833 
834Emlis2019-10-07
835it's the equivalent of your dad trying to rap
836 
837give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
838Silence young one
839 
840Azortharion2019-10-07
841I like it..
842 
843give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
844God damnit goatface likes it
845Pack it up
846Need a new gimmick
847 
848Toth is real2019-10-07
849Formal request for azor to rename himself "goatface"
850 
851give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
852I thought we'd just decided on that to be his given name already
853 
854Poon Tangler2019-10-07
855:goat:
856 
857Keening2019-10-07
858Anyway, sorry if I was disrespectful to your guide earlier. I did not mean to, but you came onto me like a ram and I had to defend my argument making all kinds of noise, I could've been more friendly.
859 
860Toth is real2019-10-07
861like a goat*
862 
863Keening2019-10-07
864Ram // Goat
865hahaha
866that was funny
867 
868grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
869anyone experience being in a guild that isn't primarily english speakers?
870 
871Azortharion2019-10-07
872I've been in Danish guilds
873 
874grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
875did it work out well? were you ostracised
876well probs not you
877 
878Azortharion2019-10-07
879It worked fine, what do you mean ostracized? By the guild?
880 
881Toth is real2019-10-07
882are you saying that you don't speak "their" language
883 
884Azortharion2019-10-07
885To be clear I am Danish myself
886 
887grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
888aussie in chinese guild
889 
890Azortharion2019-10-07
891So maybe I didn't get the point
892 
893grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
894gonna speak mandarin during raid
895 
896Azortharion2019-10-07
897Lol
898Nice
899
900 
901Silva2019-10-07
902Remember to not use buzzwords
903 
904Kieya2019-10-07
905just talk about tiannamen every time you get frustrated so you can end raid early
906 
907grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
908free hong kong
909 
910Toth is real2019-10-07
911How to get them banned from their equivalent of twitch if they're streaming
912 
913Yuuseki2019-10-07
914do you get better ping on chinese servers?
915 
916grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
917they're on barth
918 
919Yuuseki2019-10-07
920curious how you ended up in a chinese guild
921 
922grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
923nah i was thinking of joining one
924was wondering how bad it could be
925 
926Kieya2019-10-07
927probably pretty bad tbh
928 
929grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
930they're 5/8m
931which is like
932 
933Yuuseki2019-10-07
934btw @Azortharion, AMoC sims slightly better under normal conditions if just used on CD. Whats the reason the guide recommends different AMoC usage than the SimC APL?
935 
936grindingawaymylife2019-10-07
937theres probs 20 guilds on barth with that
938 
939Keening2019-10-07
940what a great chance to learn a new language mate
941
942 
943LeoZhekov2019-10-07
944It is uncomfortable. I am raiding regularly with 95% french people in the group and is not really optimal.
945 
946Keening2019-10-07
947try to study some mandarin on the side and you'll not regret it
948 
949Yuuseki2019-10-07
950well if they speak mandarin entire raid
951I wouldnt join tbh
952 
953Azortharion2019-10-07
954I don't recall the difference yuus
955I think I've talked about it before
956I just don't remember xd
957 
958Keening2019-10-07
959Leo, french is such a nice language tho
960but yeah, see ur point
961
962
963 
964Yuuseki2019-10-07
965default APL: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6JaE4fG5z8SDQbSDzcBNmf
966actions.st+=/a_murder_of_crows,if=cooldown.bestial_wrath.remains
967
968Guide AMoC usage: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9xjUAcu9q7xdZPbYpL6pqc
969a_murder_of_crows,if=!cooldown.bestial_wrath.remains|cooldown.bestial_wrath.remains>30
970Raidbots
971Quick Sim - T 24 Hunter Beast Mastery - 51,805 DPS - Raidbots
972
973Raidbots
974Quick Sim - T 24 Hunter Beast Mastery - 51,737 DPS - Raidbots
975
976 
977Toth is real2019-10-07
97860 dps is still margin of error so hard to make conclusions based on just that sim
979 
980Azortharion2019-10-07
981IIRC the apl used to be what's in the guide now and no longer is
982 
983Yuuseki2019-10-07
984yeah I mentioned this months back as well, back then there was also basically no difference in both variations
985I asked if it wouldnt make sense to recommend the easier rotation then in the guide
986but nothing came of it
987 
988Azortharion2019-10-07
989It works out to the same in practice most of the time, hence the miniscule different
990 
991Keening2019-10-07
992Heyyyy Yuuuseki
993 
994Azortharion2019-10-07
995Difference*
996 
997Keening2019-10-07
998you recommend easier rotation now? :smile: :smile: :smile:
999 
1000Kieya2019-10-07
1001do you see the dps difference in those sims
1002as compared to with toth
1003 
1004Azortharion2019-10-07
100560 and 700 are totally the same thing you guys
1006 
1007Kieya2019-10-07
100860 dps is a small difference
1009700 is not
1010 
1011Yuuseki2019-10-07
1012@Keening if they are DPS neutral, yes :p
1013 
1014Keening2019-10-07
1015haha, I was just teasing, but on a more serious note, gale sims higher than crow's with coral equipped for me
1016https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dnYDbXDtqa9rQMkbHfNC8W
1017Raidbots
1018Top Gear - Adventuring - 51,784 DPS - Raidbots
1019
1020 
1021Yuuseki2019-10-07
1022I was never arguing against your point btw @Keening
1023 
1024Keening2019-10-07
1025I know Yuuseki :heart:
1026Just felt a lil cornered and laughed at.
1027 
1028Yuuseki2019-10-07
1029you could use thrill of the hunt as "easy mode" while leveling/learning the spec
1030but there's also just not a good reason to do this as you will have to learn AMoC sooner or later anyway
1031 
1032Keening2019-10-07
1033I seriously think, but we're in disagreement there, that in most cases it will also outperform crows. but the very argument i made was that it, for the beginner route can be an alternative in a easier rotation. toth can at the very least be mentioned in a way like: "if your crit is a bit low, consider it to keep frenzy up as an alternative to using crows"
1034 
1035Kieya2019-10-07
1036@give wordup loot or ban time to come back
1037 
1038Emlis2019-10-07
1039@Keening Please stop talking about keeping frenzy up as an important part of the rotation
1040 
1041Yuuseki2019-10-07
1042well if you just use AMoC on CD, you will deal more DPS thanm with toth. The only way toth deal more dmg is if you forget to press AMoC
1043
1044 
1045Emlis2019-10-07
1046barbed shot is not used to keep frenzy up
1047barbed shot is used to maximise dance of death uptime
1048 
1049Kieya2019-10-07
1050just a nice side effect
1051 
1052Emlis2019-10-07
1053and in doing so, actively hurts frenzy uptime
1054but you still get frenzy uptime in the meantime
1055it's just not nearly more important than dod
1056 
1057Yarpie2019-10-07
1058Wait what
1059I've been playing like pepega then
1060Cause I focused on it
1061 
1062Keening2019-10-07
1063even stronger argument to simplify the rotation and get another 9% crit chance to do just that. add gale into it and you'll get another 7% crit
1064 
1065Kieya2019-10-07
1066:NotLikeThis:
1067 
1068Keening2019-10-07
1069more barbspam = more uptime
1070less different clicks
1071 
1072Emlis2019-10-07
1073crows is better for dod than gale
1074 
1075Ghosteld2019-10-07
1076but it's less dps
1077 
1078Emlis2019-10-07
1079stop arguing for gale
1080if your gear isn't shit, then crows beats gale even with your toth meme
1081 
1082Toth is real2019-10-07
1083you don't get more barbed from toth, toth only increases the critchance of a shortlist of abilities, so not your aa iirc
1084 
1085Keening2019-10-07
1086Emlis, click the link above, with coral & font equipped gale > crow's nest.
1087 
1088Toth is real2019-10-07
1089also does not increase the chance to get dod from barbed as a result
1090 
1091Kieya2019-10-07
1092keening
1093for you
1094 
1095Emlis2019-10-07
1096@Yarpie you want maximum dod uptime, there's an upgrade barbed WA somewhere for it, no dod = cast barbed, then refresh as dod is ending or when you close to cap barbed (this means frenzy will get refreshed naturally too)
1097@Keening your gear
1098is not
1099good
1100I specifically said, if your gear isn't shit
1101
1102 
1103Keening2019-10-07
1104so, how high do you need to sim to not have shitty gear?
110560k ?
1106in your eyes
1107just asking
1108 
1109Azortharion2019-10-07
11103x dod is a good start
1111 
1112Emlis2019-10-07
111355k+, maybe 54k
1114 
1115Azortharion2019-10-07
1116Kinda the basis of any good bm set
1117 
1118Yarpie2019-10-07
1119Cheers!
1120 
1121Keening2019-10-07
1122I have 3x dod , one 430 it's not simming equally high as to my 450 gear.
1123 
1124Azortharion2019-10-07
1125So you don't have 3x dod, got it
1126 
1127Keening2019-10-07
1128I'm wielding 9x socketed items
1129 
1130Toth is real2019-10-07
1131"doubt"
1132 
1133Emlis2019-10-07
1134but your crafted pieces could be significantly better, you only have 2 dod, the dod pieces you DO have aren't good, you don't have benthic gloves, nor do you have the good benthic bracers, you have a ring with no socket too @Keening
1135 
1136Azortharion2019-10-07
1137I can't imagine any new arguments coming out of this that haven't been said already so I don't understand the interest in keeping it going
1138 
1139fat chance2019-10-07
1140hey guys, how does one sim for mythic +?
1141 
1142Toth is real2019-10-07
1143I got gaping maw as my first roll, did not outsim my 415 cannoneers, even if you've got worse dod shoulders at 430 it should be better :thinking:
1144 
1145Azortharion2019-10-07
1146Other than humiliating the guy
1147 
1148Yuuseki2019-10-07
1149@Toth is real you sure about that toth AA thing?
1150 
1151Azortharion2019-10-07
1152Dungeon slice mostly @fat chance
1153 
1154Yuuseki2019-10-07
1155Just did a talent compare sim, I get more Wild Call procs with toth
1156 
1157Toth is real2019-10-07
1158maybe aa is on the shortlist then
1159 
1160Kieya2019-10-07
1161uh, of course you would lol
1162toth increases your crit whereas crows doesnt
1163
1164 
1165Yuuseki2019-10-07
1166well yeah
1167Tarlo said toth doesnt increas auto attack crit though
1168 
1169Keening2019-10-07
1170the argument was that toth only increase a few abilities
1171 
1172Azortharion2019-10-07
1173Aren't you talking about different things
1174 
1175Yuuseki2019-10-07
1176which made me wonder, so I simmed
1177 
1178Azortharion2019-10-07
1179Tarlo said dod, yuuseki said wild call?
1180 
1181Keening2019-10-07
1182and the outcome is: it also affects aa.
1183
1184 
1185Toth is real2019-10-07
1186I said both
1187 
1188Kieya2019-10-07
1189wild call is procced off of auto attacks though?
1190 
1191Keening2019-10-07
1192yes
1193 
1194Azortharion2019-10-07
1195I don't see why it would affect dod
1196 
1197Toth is real2019-10-07
1198but maybe only the later
1199 
1200Keening2019-10-07
1201and gale is increasing the amount of autoattacks in a given window by 7.5%
1202cause the procc/uptime on gale is 50%
1203 
1204Emlis2019-10-07
1205crows increases the % chance of dod proccing
1206sims > what you feel
1207 
1208Kieya2019-10-07
1209more autoattacks versus a higher chance for your auto attacks to proc
1210is what emlis is saying
1211 
1212Keening2019-10-07
1213sure, and there is a break-point at some point
1214 
1215Azortharion2019-10-07
1216Which your method doesn't reach
1217 
1218Keening2019-10-07
1219if you say so
1220 
1221Azortharion2019-10-07
1222The sims say so lol
1223Not me
1224The sim you linked says so
1225 
1226Keening2019-10-07
1227the sim I linked gives higher dps off gale compared to crow's, whilst also being more consistent in the amount of barbed over the given timeframe, which in turn decreases the chance to overlap dod proccs, and make it more evenly spread.
1228
1229 
1230Yarpie2019-10-07
1231The sims 1, 2, 3 or 4?
1232 
1233Azortharion2019-10-07
1234How is it more consistent?
1235 
1236Emlis2019-10-07
1237@Keening fyi, the sim you linked, gale is 51,784 dps, crows is 51,783
1238they're the same
1239 
1240Azortharion2019-10-07
1241I'm surprised you've missed the problem with this sim
1242And that everyone else has too
1243Well until right now
1244 
1245Emlis2019-10-07
1246hmmm?
1247 
1248Azortharion2019-10-07
1249The fact that the
1250Best crow option outside margin is not using font and coral
1251 
1252LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1253@Toth is real it does increase the aa crit https://www.wowhead.com/spell=257946/thrill-of-the-hunt
1254Wowhead
1255Thrill of the Hunt
1256Barbed Shot increases your critical strike chance by 3% for 8 sec, stacking up to 3 times. This is an Uncategorized Spell. Requires Hunter. Always up to date.
1257
1258Click on see more in the effect
1259First thing is auto shot
1260 
1261Toth is real2019-10-07
1262ye just forgot aa is considered a "spell" in that context
1263 
1264Keening2019-10-07
1265the proccrate // uptime of crow's nest is lower than that of gale over a minute. but when crow's procc, sure you do a lot of crits. but it's not as consistent/even over the same timeframe compared to gale. 
1266
1267my point:^
1268 
1269Emlis2019-10-07
1270quantity of procs and total uptime is not relevant,
1271 
1272Keening2019-10-07
1273yes it is, especially when you come carrying the argument that you want to maximize the d&d procs over a fight
1274 
1275Emlis2019-10-07
1276if you get 20 procs of 2 haste, and a total of 80% uptime of 2 haste
1277does that beat 3 procs of 2000 haste and 20% uptime of 2000 haste?
1278you're completely disregarding the strength of the procs
1279for quantity over quality
1280 
1281Azortharion2019-10-07
1282Jesus christ that's the densest thing you've said
1283Like how can you in your brain compare them by strict uptime and nothing else
1284And not think that there's a variable missing
1285 
1286Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1287Keening wanted a new arsehole for xmas it seems xD
1288 
1289Azortharion2019-10-07
1290All you've managed so far is that gale can be competitive with crows but wasn't it thrill we were talking about
1291In that sim, it's using crows, not thrill?
1292With thrill like far behind
1293It doesn't even crowsnest like you said, just matches it
1294Doesn't even beat*
1295 
1296Keening2019-10-07
1297700 dps behind, but you don't have to cast shit to obtain the maximized performance of the talent.
1298
1299anyway back to my point above, we're talking about D&D proccs, not 2 vs 2k haste.... 
1300
1301assume we get the same amount of d&d proccs with gale and crows over a fight.
1302the outcome will be that more of them will overlap using crow's nest compared to gale, because is more consistent, whilst crow's nest is spiking, making some of the d&d proccs to overlap.
1303just read what i wrote before you comment. thx
1304
1305
1306 
1307Azortharion2019-10-07
1308Again, non-arguments
1309 
1310Keening2019-10-07
1311ok, if you say so.
1312 
1313Azortharion2019-10-07
1314Like, it being less spiky doesn't make up for the 700 dps difference, neither does the fact that crows needs to be cast as we've already established that crows is not difficult to the tune of a 700 dps loss if you do it less than perfectly
1315 
1316Keening2019-10-07
1317Now we're talking about two different things
1318or you are mixing them up
1319700 dps is only toth vs crows talent
1320 
1321Kieya2019-10-07
1322Now we're pod racing
1323 
1324Keening2019-10-07
1325gale vs crow's nest is the rest of the text.
1326 
1327Azortharion2019-10-07
1328If you're smart enough to think of all these far-fetched reasons that Toth/gale are competitive either together or individually - because you need some serious mental gymnastics to get there - then you're also smart enough to see all the reasons that it doesnt hold up.
1329
1330Yeah, gale can be competitive with crows, this is not new, people have been linking sims of this for the past month or more
1331 
1332Kieya2019-10-07
1333Have you considered that crows nest also increases your damage in other ways while Gale only increases your aa speed?
1334 
1335Azortharion2019-10-07
1336No he hasn't, evidenced by his uptime comparison earlier
1337Yikes man. Gonna drive to airport cya
1338 
1339Kieya2019-10-07
1340Bye goatman
1341 
1342give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1343TL;DR - Goatface has made a guide describing what is optimal. Being a monkey-brain and deciding your meme-spec to press as few buttons as possible for a loss of dps is also viable is fine, but it doesn't deserve a guide, because it's not optimal.
1344 
1345Keening2019-10-07
1346yes I have kieya, and if the sim says it's 1 dps difference, it's taking that into account, which further proves my point that it will heavily increase the amount of barbed proccs over a fight
1347 
1348give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1349This is like, the exact thing with the dude who wanted sims to include modifiers if you only had 2x DoD because chim shot might sim better in some scenarios then
1350 
1351Azortharion2019-10-07
1352Heavily? Lmao
1353 
1354give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1355It's not optimal
1356 
1357Azortharion2019-10-07
1358Ok closing discord else I'll crash
1359 
1360Kieya2019-10-07
1361What kind of a response is that lmao
1362 
1363Keening2019-10-07
1364You should've been around when the Elitist jerks forum was still up, would've fit you well.
1365
1366 
1367Emlis2019-10-07
1368@Keening 
1369Gale = More auto attacks, more chances to proc 
1370Crows = Higher % chance for your auto attacks to proc barbed, higher % chance for your barbed to trigger DoD 
1371why is the first more valuable?
1372 
1373Yuuseki2019-10-07
1374he is saying with gale, the Wild Call procs are spread out more evenly
1375 
1376Keening2019-10-07
1377^^
1378 
1379give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1380The entire point people here are trying to hammer into your brain, Keening, is that while you can achieve perfectly good results not playing optimally or with wrong talent/gear choices, they're not going to be better on average
1381See: Azor getting rank 1 azshara with vision minor cos goatface is silly
1382See: Any hunter choosing not to use font+coral cos fuck that noise but still getting top 100 ranks.
1383It's a choice but it's not recommended
1384 
1385Kieya2019-10-07
1386Vision minor new meta
1387 
1388give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1389because it's the wrong choice for optimal damage
1390 
1391Keening2019-10-07
1392no it's not the wrong choice naturally
1393vision minor can be more damage
1394if the fight is not "patchwerk"
1395
1396 
1397give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1398God you're fucking stupid my dude, you singled in on something that wasn't even an argument because the rest of it wasn't something you could deal with huh?
1399 
1400Keening2019-10-07
1401personal assaults now yes?
1402sweet.
1403 
1404Kieya2019-10-07
1405Fuck I need to sleep it's 3 am
1406 
1407give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1408Nothing else is getting through
1409 
1410Kieya2019-10-07
1411This is too good
1412 
1413give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1414The only point I made with that line
1415was that someone who got rank #1
1416Used an essence that is 1000% worse
1417In that scenario
1418than an alternative
1419And you bit into it like a fucking bloodhound "UHM ACHSHUALLY IT MIGHT BE BETTER IN SOME CASES"
1420But it wasn't for that.
1421 
1422Emlis2019-10-07
1423@Yuuseki sims account for that though, you're justifying his monkey statements by saying stuff like that
1424 
1425give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1426Which was all I was saying :slight_smile:
1427 
1428chonka2019-10-07
1429what about venomus bite is it also 700 dps loss XD
1430 
1431Silva2019-10-07
1432dont you dare fam
1433
1434 
1435give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1436You've tried to argue that your talent setup is worthy of consideration because you get good logs with it, but even people getting rank 1 can have worse setups because of luck, better play, or a number of other factors. Doesn't mean it's on average better.
1437 
1438Keening2019-10-07
1439if you can fit an entire aotw in that fight extra due to the reduced cooldown. then it's not worse. it's optimal, so if you were just trying to jerk around then you failed under ur own argument.
1440
1441my point for all of this discussion is to in a simple way, maximize your "average" raid damage, making the rotation simplier and more consistent over the fight.
1442
1443the initial idea of me even starting the topic was that it's difficult to make the most of the current guide, it's a lot to keep track off for new players.
1444 
1445Kieya2019-10-07
1446The thing he is missing is basically what emlis said, the sim takes into account the differences between proc rates with crows/Gale but it also takes into account all the other benefits of that crit, which he's ignoring because it doesn't fit his agenda
1447 
1448Martyi2019-10-07
1449I think keeming is the guy pepega I ever seen. It’s just funny to read that
1450 
1451Keening2019-10-07
1452Kieya please elaborate that one
1453 
1454Emlis2019-10-07
1455@Keening even if you can get 1 extra aotw over the fight, doesn't mean it's the best essence option, in fact, it still is not.
1456 
1457give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1458But Keening, you're wrong. A single extra AOTW does not in any single target scenario outweight the bonuses from the other minor singletarget essences
1459 
1460chonka2019-10-07
1461for me aotw sux no PI :frowning:
1462 
1463give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1464Even the most optimal scenario
1465 
1466Keening2019-10-07
1467since when is Azshara a single target scenario?
1468 
1469give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1470of it comming in right before the end
1471
1472 
1473Keening2019-10-07
1474geez bro,
1475 
1476Emlis2019-10-07
1477Sims understand that sometimes your brabed procs will double up, sims understand and simulate your concerns, they still find crows beating gale @Keening
1478 
1479give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1480SInce when ISN'T it lmfao
1481 
1482Emlis2019-10-07
1483have you killed mythic azshara @Keening or progged it,
1484 
1485Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1486Keening you are aware that 90% of the people you are aruging with Theorycraft Hunter talents/builds every day? what you are saying has already been considering and isnt worth. Azshara is a full blown ST fight. lmfao.
1487 
1488Emlis2019-10-07
1489on mythic, ST is all that actually matters
1490 
1491give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1492Hey guys, Azshara, does AOE matter :GWseremePeepoThink: ?
1493 
1494Kieya2019-10-07
1495You lose damage from critting less for having gale, the damage you gain from more possible did procs does not recover this damage
1496 
1497Keening2019-10-07
1498I thought what mattered was maximizing dps, that's the argument a second ago at least
1499 
1500give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1501No, what mattered was what was optimal for the fight.
1502There's hunters with other essence choices
1503 
1504Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1505and your build doesnt maximise dps.
1506 
1507give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1508doing more damage now
1509 
1510Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1511so its irrelevent
1512
1513 
1514Emlis2019-10-07
1515maximizing your contribution to the boss kill
1516sometimes via overall dmg, sometimes via targeted dmg
1517 
1518Martyi2019-10-07
1519He’s 3/8M only hehe
1520 
1521Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1522that explains alot ^
1523 
1524Keening2019-10-07
1525Kieya, you're critting more AA, more Melee with pet, less KC, less cobra
1526 
1527Kieya2019-10-07
1528If Gale and toth is better then why are your logs with it on sivara worse than your murder of crows logs?
1529
1530 
1531Martyi2019-10-07
1532What happened to your green parse first boss
1533
1534 
1535Yuuseki2019-10-07
1536@Emlis I'm not justifying anything nor am I defending Keening, I was just trying to help by explaining what he meant because you asked :)
1537 
1538Keening2019-10-07
1539I've literally been playing for 2 months in a bad guild 2588
1540I died on the first parse obviously
1541 
1542Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1543bad guild doesnt make you a bad player
1544 
1545Keening2019-10-07
1546go ahead and show the heroic
1547no bad guild makes me a bad parser
1548 
1549Martyi2019-10-07
15505 kills lol?
1551 
1552Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1553and thats taken 5 parses into account
1554 
1555Keening2019-10-07
1556cause the fight takes 2 minute longer on average
1557 
1558Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1559Heroic parses do not even matter
1560 
1561Kieya2019-10-07
1562Again, heroic logs are irrelevant
1563 
1564Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1565xD
1566 
1567Martyi2019-10-07
1568Yea heroic log is nothing
1569 
1570Keening2019-10-07
1571you're trying to attack my "playing skills"
1572 
1573Emlis2019-10-07
1574@Yuuseki it wasn't something that actually needed a reply, it was a "your argument sucks" statement
1575 
1576Martyi2019-10-07
1577Cause that fits what you are saying here
1578 
1579Keening2019-10-07
1580very mature.
1581 
1582Emlis2019-10-07
1583there's no point in flaming logs
1584the only reason I asked about azshara, is because experience ends in you knowing it's st
1585 
1586Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1587Keening we arent attacking you - if you had a 99 log with your build and could justify it with some back up..... we may be more understanding of why you think your build is better.
1588 
1589Kieya2019-10-07
1590Inflated amounts of parses makes a higher percentage easier to get to and you're almost certainly likely to be much much better geared than most of the other hunters
1591 
1592Keening2019-10-07
1593they're just dicks sucking up to people in agreement, someone wrote it was an echo chamber earlier. I thought it was a place for constructive discussion but I guess I was wrong, with some exceptions.
1594
1595 
1596Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1597currently its your Opinion vs educated Others.
1598 
1599Emlis2019-10-07
1600@Keening It is a place for constructive discussion, but unfortunately you aren't budging on your position, or acknowledging facts or information, and you don't trust sims, so it's hard to discuss or debate with you.
1601 
1602Keening2019-10-07
1603my OPINION is that it would be a good alternative to consider toth over crows in the guide for beginners struggling to make the most of crows. --> and if you go that route, also consider gale over crow's nest.
1604
1605it's all my point here.
1606 
1607Kieya2019-10-07
1608The issue keening is that you aren't taking into account anyone elses criticisms, just trying to spin them in a way that you think furthers your point
1609 
1610chonka2019-10-07
1611keening don't get discouraged its always nice to see the other angle you are not the only one that wanted toth to work but atm its just a big dps loss
1612 
1613Keening2019-10-07
1614I trust sims Emlis
1615 
1616Emlis2019-10-07
1617@Keening Well no, what you're saying is, sims are wrong, gale is better
1618 
1619Keening2019-10-07
1620lol it's not
1621 
1622Emlis2019-10-07
1623I can scroll up and quote, that is what you've been saying
1624 
1625Keening2019-10-07
1626i'm saying that in the sims: if gale & crows are equal, then gale is better
1627especially for the more consistent d&d proccs
1628 
1629Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1630no they are equal.
1631and its personal preference
1632 
1633Emlis2019-10-07
1634if they're equal, they're equal
1635and crows will get ahead for you, once you have 3 dod
1636 
1637Kieya2019-10-07
1638Even going by what you are saying providing an alternate "easier" solution to crows is irrelevant because crows is already braindead on single target
1639 
1640Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1641Beginners can still aim for 3x DoD then what you are discussing is irrelevent.
1642
1643 
1644Emlis2019-10-07
1645@Keening The issue is, you might have trouble with crows, but you're speaking for all bad players, assuming that they also struggle with crows. 
1646
1647Please listen and understand this. 
1648
1649Crows is not a notable or large or common issue for bad players to have. It is not even in the top 5 of common issues bad players have.
1650 
1651Scoteh2019-10-07
1652Oh lol are we still on this?
1653 
1654Emlis2019-10-07
1655you are better off arguing for the guide to suggest pressing barbed shot off cooldown
1656 
1657Ghosteld2019-10-07
1658Beginners have way bigger issues than pressing an ability on cd whenever it's available
1659 
1660Kieya2019-10-07
1661We stopped for a while scoteh but we got a sequel
1662 
1663Scoteh2019-10-07
1664I had to go actually do some work, I figured this would have been settled by now
1665 
1666give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1667Debate requires a party to be willing to admit they may be wrong. When you resort to "mY oPiNiOn" you kill any remaining attempt at a constructive debate because you have just proven that you know that you're wrong in this, but you're unwilling to admit that a 2% dps loss for pressing a single button once a minute (and mind you, unless the fight ends exactly when crows end, you can delay it by quite a bit) is too big a gap to be considered for an alternative spec.
1668 
1669Keening2019-10-07
1670I don't have trouble with crows, but we're all lazy people, if we can get the same with less to consider, ESPECIALLY if you're a bad player, you struggle with other things, such as standing in the right place, avoiding aids/abilities etc. then taking crows, which a lot of players are using inefficiently and swap that with a talent that is always used at a maximum: simming almost as good as the optimal use of crows talent then yeah...
1671
1672I'd take the lazy route any day. and in the case of players still learning their class & the game in general so should the guide say.
1673 
1674Kieya2019-10-07
1675Another issue is that you're entirely stuck on viewing gale and crows as solely contributing to dod uptime
1676 
1677give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1678Ac/kc is considered  (by now) a viable single target alternative despite providing at best 1% more damage, and forces you to deal with bugs. Losing 2% for no reason is borderline crazy.
1679 
1680Ghosteld2019-10-07
1681Why would we want beginners to play with a not optimal standard build? Thats leading them on a wrong path
1682 
1683Keening2019-10-07
1684optimal standard build?
1685no it isnt
1686
1687 
1688Emlis2019-10-07
1689@Keening hold on,
1690so you have no issue with crows
1691but you're saying these magical people who aren't here
1692are?
1693who are these people you speak for
1694 
1695Jacobo2019-10-07
1696I started playing wow for the first time 3 months ago. The only reason I struggled with crows is because I didnt adjust my game audio for the longest and hated hearing it my ear
1697 
1698Emlis2019-10-07
1699because crows is not a common issue for new players
1700 
1701Keening2019-10-07
1702emlis if you think this forum is a statistical for the entire hunter population you're so mistaken
1703 
1704Scoteh2019-10-07
1705I think the key difference/misunderstanding from Keening here is that a guide should include suboptimal options. It shouldn't. People dont consult a guide for how to find worse alternatives
1706 
1707Kieya2019-10-07
1708Ok I have to go to bed, give me some good content for tomorrow
1709 
1710Yarpie2019-10-07
1711I want a slice of good content too plz
1712 
1713Keening2019-10-07
1714Scoteh, the suboptimal option if it's 10 times easier will still bring you closer to that max damage than that of the more difficult guide will, unless you execute it to near perfection
1715in very very simple means
1716 
1717chonka2019-10-07
1718damn for me toth is only 175 dps worse XD
1719 
1720Emlis2019-10-07
1721@Keening I'm not sure you understand what we do here, or how many thousands of people we have helped over time, and the logs we go through and critique, 
1722
1723our pool of knowledge of what bad/new players struggle with, is infinitely more accurate than yours
1724 
1725chonka2019-10-07
1726but my gear is not the best
1727 
1728Keening2019-10-07
1729ac/kc -> occasional barbed shot -> bw on cd --> spam
1730 
1731Ghosteld2019-10-07
1732Crows is objectively the easiest ability to use in our toolkit.
1733 
1734Keening2019-10-07
1735will take you there wayy faster than including murder of crows & more spiky weapon proccs from nest.
1736I need some coffee.
1737brb
1738 
1739chonka2019-10-07
1740https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sn6jASUREJa9xhypgtm6JY
1741Raidbots
1742Top Gear - Chonka - 53,438 DPS - Raidbots
1743
1744my bad its 250 for me :stuck_out_tongue:
1745 
1746Scoteh2019-10-07
1747Again though you're saying "max dmg" which is a fallacy
1748 
1749give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1750:onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending: :onlypretending:
1751 
1752Ghosteld2019-10-07
1753@chonka that says 700 dps?
1754 
1755Scoteh2019-10-07
1756A literal solution to that is "play better"
1757 
1758Keening2019-10-07
1759nice sim chonka
1760
1761 
1762Scoteh2019-10-07
1763Hell, a more useful contribution from / for you would be "hey can we include a link at the murder of crows section for a weakaura that tells me when crows is ready to be used"
1764 
1765Teheebae2019-10-07
1766Holy shit
1767What an absolute fiesta we got going on :FeelsGoodMan:
1768 
1769chonka2019-10-07
1770Its 700 vs kc/ac but not using that atm, prob should hehe
1771 
1772give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1773Understand that plenty of people make a similar choice to this by not using double on use trinkets because fuck font
1774But we'd never put in the guide to do that
1775Its a personal choice to sacrifice damage for convinience
1776 
1777Keening2019-10-07
1778Maybe your 'guide' is missguided then, isnt the very point of a guide for people who actually need it?
1779 
1780Ghosteld2019-10-07
1781@chonka well its also 600-700 dps with ki/aotb
1782 
1783Keening2019-10-07
1784new people, people tiering up and so on
1785people that don't sim their gear
1786 
1787give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1788The point of a guide is to have an accurate framework for how to do something the correct way
1789 
1790Keening2019-10-07
1791one thing that leading taught me is that you always have to make room for error in whatever strategy you pursue.
1792 
1793give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1794Including random additions "if you cant press x button every Y you can drop it for Z and lose damage" has no place in a guide that seeks to teach how to play the class
1795 
1796Keening2019-10-07
1797Chonka you see how your dps is higher with gale compared to crows? :slight_smile:
1798or basically the same
1799
1800 
1801Scoteh2019-10-07
1802You are suggesting putting an artificial cap on your damage potential for ease of play. Which is fine, but will not actually make you the best player you can be. So should not be how you structure for improvement. Imo.
1803 
1804chonka2019-10-07
1805@Ghosteld  nwm me than I guess I am blind :KEKW:
1806 
1807give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1808You should learn from that yourself. Nobody is in agreement with you. Surely this is an issue with literally everyone else, and not your argument.  Right?  RIGHT ?
1809Also, mfw you pull the "Well leading has taught me..." bullshit
181010/10
1811 
1812Keening2019-10-07
1813@give wordup loot or ban high horse stuff again
1814 
1815give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1816Im not the one trying to pull rank here
1817By implying I have more leadership experience
1818And thus my opinion should matter more
1819:GWseremePeepoThink:
1820 
1821Keening2019-10-07
1822it shouldnt matter MORE
1823it's a basic common ground
1824 
1825give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1826It shouldn't matter AT ALL, because it has nothing to do with wether what you suggest is a good idea or not
1827Just sidesweeping it in there as if it lends merit to what you say is 10/10 cringe
1828 
1829Keening2019-10-07
1830as in: your strategy can sim 1000 million dps, but unless there is a realistic way to actually do that in the "world" and not only in a sim, well then it doesnt matter.-
1831
1832^^ that was an extreme, I'm aware the potential of the current guide can be reached with a lil bit of effort.
1833but it still requires effort.
1834
1835using another talent that sims 1.5% lower, but you never have to think about to reach that max can more often than you think, in the end give a greater dps increase. ESPECIALLY FOR NEW PLAYERS
1836and that is my point of leading experience
1837 
1838Ryv2019-10-07
1839:aPES_Popcorn:
1840 
1841Jayeasy2019-10-07
1842
1843 
1844Ghosteld2019-10-07
1845How does it give a greater dps increase
1846Are you avoiding to press a button on your keyboard?
1847
1848 
1849Keening2019-10-07
1850no
1851 
1852Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1853But if new players can learn from a guide to achieve the best their character can in your case 1.5% - then fuck directing them to something that makes them deal less and will make them think what they are doing is the correct thing to do.
1854 
1855give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1856The fuck does "leadership experience" have anything to do with what you said
1857The fuck do you even lead
1858 
1859Keening2019-10-07
1860butthurt much?
1861 
1862Scoteh2019-10-07
1863Hes leading you toward high blood pressure
1864 
1865Keening2019-10-07
1866crows: but if you forget about it for 15 seconds or 10 or end up applying it at the wrong time in the fight you're not getting the most of the talent
1867 
1868Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1869Keening if your sole purpose now is to annoy people because we disagree. this discord isnt for you.
1870 
1871waytogoteam2019-10-07
1872https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-popcornday-national-popcorn-day-gif-9265562
1873 
1874Keening2019-10-07
1875whilst the alternative is always up at max.
1876 
1877give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1878Already there from actually leading a top 100 guild scoteh
1879 
1880Ghosteld2019-10-07
1881Wouldn't it be more beneficial to add a weakaura in the guide that screams at you whenever crows is off cd then to suggest talents that are suboptimal?
1882 
1883Scoteh2019-10-07
1884Cringe draco,  dropping in your leadership experience like that :monkaScheme:
1885 
1886give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1887Perfect setup buddy
1888Tyty
1889 
1890Scoteh2019-10-07
1891Ghost plz do not steal my excellent points
1892 
1893Jacobo2019-10-07
1894I mean eventually a beginner has to grow out of that stage right? I know for sure I wasnt using crows effectively when I first started. After reading the guide more thoroughly and getting advice from better hunters I got better at it.
1895 
1896Damkus2019-10-07
1897damn this dude still goin
1898crazy
1899 
1900Keening2019-10-07
1901Jacobo sure but unless you're getting the MAX out of it, that is: sim using it during BW, sim using it during AoTW, sim using it during deadtime in rotation etc. you still won't outperform the passive strength of toth.
1902
1903 
1904give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1905Keening by your logic we should never drive bikes without training wheels because we will be able to move from a to b quicker if we leave them on, rather than learning to actually ride the bike.
1906 
1907idigital2019-10-07
1908What Is the best essences comp for m+ without pvp essences
1909 
1910LeoZhekov2019-10-07
1911Kinda defeats the purpose of the guide when guiding people into suboptimal choices.
1912 
1913Teheebae2019-10-07
1914You don't teach a kid playing football by kicking around a handball :smile:
1915 
1916Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
1917but then you get better Keening and AGAIN your point is irrelevant.
1918 
1919Keening2019-10-07
1920Leo it's more like me suggesting giving a pass if you're in the middle circle might be safer and better to reach the enemy goal, eventhough if you're one of the best players out there you have a 90% chance to actually score a goal from the middle circle. --> cause unless you are then yeah, it doesnt > the alternative.
1921 
1922give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1923We assume that the training wheels phase takes place BEFORE a player seeks out a guide by the way
1924 
1925Keening2019-10-07
1926you're assuming wrong then
1927 
1928Scoteh2019-10-07
1929@idigital few options, most popular probably iris>visions>bote
1930 
1931Keening2019-10-07
1932what's the first thing you do if you want to reroll a class you haven't played?
1933you look at the friggen guide
1934 
1935Emlis2019-10-07
1936@Keening Do you understand that it's almost garunteed you won't get the max out of toth, whereas it's very easy to get the max out of crows?
1937 
1938give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1939Level it.
1940 
1941Scoteh2019-10-07
1942Oh. No bote. Hm. I guess like purification or something then
1943 
1944Keening2019-10-07
1945Emlis you're wrong, 9% crit will always be up
1946 
1947Emlis2019-10-07
1948no
1949 
1950Keening2019-10-07
1951yes
1952 
1953Ghosteld2019-10-07
1954:WaitWhat:
1955 
1956Emlis2019-10-07
1957you will not always have max uptime
1958 
1959Damkus2019-10-07
1960no x100
1961 
1962Keening2019-10-07
196390-100% I shit you not
1964
1965 
1966Martyi2019-10-07
1967:LUL:
1968 
1969Emlis2019-10-07
1970so you have that uptime on frenzy?
1971 
1972Keening2019-10-07
1973¨
1974 
1975Emlis2019-10-07
1976dude you're talking shit
1977 
1978Keening2019-10-07
1979YES
1980no i'm not
1981lol
1982try it ffs
1983 
1984Martyi2019-10-07
1985Wow teach us
1986 
1987Teheebae2019-10-07
1988:PepeLaugh:
1989 
1990give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
1991Comrade #2588, we have escaped the gulag btw, you can come out of hiding
1992 
1993Emlis2019-10-07
1994you're talking about your 2minute long heroic fights, literally peak irrelevancy @Keening
1995 
1996Keening2019-10-07
1997No i'm not
1998 
1999Maikl2019-10-07
2000:pepegiggle:
2001 
2002LeoZhekov2019-10-07
2003The guide is a tool that shows what should be done in order to be the best you can be. Giving suboptimal suggestions, is a sign of a bad guide.
2004 
2005Keening2019-10-07
2006I'm talking about pretty much all content I do.
2007 
2008Teheebae2019-10-07
2009But you don't have any other content you've done?
2010 
2011Martyi2019-10-07
2012Well Draco. Azor changed my name to 2588 and I haven’t bother change it back since
2013 
2014Damkus2019-10-07
2015cant believe i went out and ate a kebab and this dude is still going on about toth
2016 
2017Teheebae2019-10-07
2018I haven't played for two months and I have more progress than you, and I fucking suck at this game :PepeLaugh:
2019 
2020Damkus2019-10-07
2021when all you have to do is press your crows keybind
2022
2023 
2024Scoteh2019-10-07
2025Who has a kebab for lunch....
2026 
2027Damkus2019-10-07
2028I have sinned.
2029 
2030Keening2019-10-07
2031Tehheebae I'm not intrested in comparing penis size. sorry
2032 
2033Maikl2019-10-07
2034too many buttons :NotLikeThis:
2035 
2036Scoteh2019-10-07
2037Easy solution to this - go write your own guide "For Bad Players by a Bad Player"
2038 
2039Teheebae2019-10-07
2040Surely you'd win with your special supplements for penis enhancements
2041 
2042Emlis2019-10-07
2043@Keening On your best sivara, you had 76% uptime on 3 stacks, this is on a 4min 30 fight, which is on the shorter end
2044 
2045Martyi2019-10-07
2046Lul
2047 
2048Keening2019-10-07
2049@Emlis look at @chonka and his sim and tell me that my argument earlier about gale being worse off is valid.
2050
2051https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sn6jASUREJa9xhypgtm6JY
2052
2053it'll give more consistent uptime of D&D
2054Raidbots
2055Top Gear - Chonka - 53,438 DPS - Raidbots
2056
2057 
2058Emlis2019-10-07
2059you want more DAMAGE
2060looking at niche sections is not relevant, you want total higher dmg
2061 
2062Keening2019-10-07
2063just look at the friggen sim before you qq ok?
2064 
2065chonka2019-10-07
2066I managed to get it to 427 dps loss with soulscarrd but even that is way to much for me
2067 
2068Martyi2019-10-07
2069Why keening is trying avoid when emlis talked about frenzy uptime
2070You said you can do 90-100% uptime but yet you did only 76%
2071 
2072Silva2019-10-07
2073But @Emlis is 100% right. Beside struggle with toth uptime you have to meet certain requirements to make it fly, like high crit so One with the Pack take place of Chimaera Shot. Needless to say there will be requirement of at least some of DoDs in your azurite gear.
2074 
2075Keening2019-10-07
2076I'm not trying to avoid anything yes you have 90% uptime or above.
2077https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3N7xpDyXMY6QkFmc#fight=1&type=auras&target=109
2078 
2079Emlis2019-10-07
2080this is a 2minute 30 fight
2081 
2082Lobo2019-10-07
208390%, 2m30s fight
2084
2085 
2086Emlis2019-10-07
2087also
208880%
2089 
2090Keening2019-10-07
2091no
2092frenzy is up 99% so
2093 
2094Emlis2019-10-07
2095stfu
2096
2097 
2098Keening2019-10-07
2099Emlis & Lobo, dude srsly? he gave the "my best parse" on sivara --> so I gave him that fight
2100 
2101Emlis2019-10-07
2102you said 3 stacks
2103 
2104Martyi2019-10-07
2105LOL
2106 
2107Emlis2019-10-07
2108Look at that
2109it's 80%
2110 
2111Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2112Lmfao
2113 
2114Martyi2019-10-07
2115This guy is out of contrôle
2116 
2117Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2118@Keening  Please stop. this is embarrassing.
2119 
2120Keening2019-10-07
2121look at the link
2122 
2123Emlis2019-10-07
2124I gave you your best parse on MYTHIC, where the fight is over
2125 
2126Teheebae2019-10-07
2127:Monka:
2128 
2129Keening2019-10-07
213099% uptime on frenzy
2131 
2132Emlis2019-10-07
2133i took your link, and i put YOUR LINK into wow analyzer,
2134 
2135Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2136That is the Link.
2137 
2138Keening2019-10-07
2139no its not the link kazzo
2140 
2141Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2142Emlis has broke it down for you already
2143 
2144Emlis2019-10-07
2145@Keening 99% including 1 and 2 stack time, please listen
2146and use your brain
2147and stop talking
2148stop typing
2149 
2150Keening2019-10-07
2151no he's using another friggen bossfight
2152 
2153Emlis2019-10-07
2154this is the same fight
2155no
2156 
2157Teheebae2019-10-07
2158:OMEGALUL:
2159 
2160Emlis2019-10-07
2161this is literally the same
2162fight
2163it's the same fight
2164 
2165Martyi2019-10-07
2166Keening is fucking :pepega: I ever seen yo
2167 
2168Emlis2019-10-07
2169can someone work out ways to say this in other languages, so maybe it sinks in
2170 
2171Martyi2019-10-07
2172Est ce que tu sais comment lire ce log?
2173 
2174Lobo2019-10-07
2175@Keening At some point you need to understand when you have to stop, I just read nearly everything, the only way toth would be a wise choice, would be if they make the buff working on pets
2176 
2177Teheebae2019-10-07
2178I don't have those magical capabilities I'm sorry
2179 
2180Martyi2019-10-07
2181Hope if he can understand what I say in other language
2182 
2183Teheebae2019-10-07
2184Keening are you NA?
2185
2186 
2187Emlis2019-10-07
2188@Keening these large sections are non 3 stack uptime
2189
2190 
2191Martyi2019-10-07
2192He’s EU
21933/8M player
2194 
2195Keening2019-10-07
2196thanks emlis
2197 
2198Teheebae2019-10-07
2199da fok
2200 
2201Emlis2019-10-07
2202https://wowanalyzer.com/
2203@Keening you can put your logs into this website,
2204WoWAnalyzer
2205Use WoWAnalyzer to analyze your gameplay and get suggestions to become a better raider.
2206
2207go to statistics
2208and it will tell you your uptime
2209for any fight you want
2210 
2211Scoteh2019-10-07
2212:yikes:
2213 
2214Keening2019-10-07
2215so, give me your uptime with crows on same fight please
2216 
2217Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2218This GUY!
2219 
2220Martyi2019-10-07
2221:confusedblacked:
2222 
2223Teheebae2019-10-07
2224????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
2225 
2226Martyi2019-10-07
2227LOOOL
2228 
2229Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2230No way is he still wanting to argue this
2231 
2232Teheebae2019-10-07
2233AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
2234 
2235Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2236LMFAO IM DEAD
2237 
2238chonka2019-10-07
2239Crows is better the shorter the fight usually
2240 
2241Teheebae2019-10-07
2242How can you fucking compare Crows uptime against that??????
2243 
2244Martyi2019-10-07
2245This guy is fucking what? Imagine if azor is still reading this
2246Oof
2247 
2248Teheebae2019-10-07
2249I hope not
2250@Azor Do not read this
2251
2252
2253 
2254Toth is real2019-10-07
2255He left for a fight iirc
2256 
2257Martyi2019-10-07
2258:LUL:
2259 
2260Toth is real2019-10-07
2261Flight
2262*
2263 
2264Ghosteld2019-10-07
2265:monkaW::popcorn:
2266 
2267Emlis2019-10-07
2268@Keening i'm sorry, what?
2269the uptime on crows?
2270 
2271Keening2019-10-07
2272nevermind
2273 
2274Emlis2019-10-07
2275you mean the 3 times you'd need to use crows on a fight of this length?
2276 
2277Maikl2019-10-07
2278:pepeclown:
2279 
2280Emlis2019-10-07
2281you want a log with someone pressing crows 3 times?
2282 
2283Teheebae2019-10-07
2284Emlis will camp lowbies for weeks in Classic now after this discussion, she must be FUMING
2285 
2286Keening2019-10-07
2287I didnt mean on crows I meant with crows talent, but it doesnt matter. i'm talking to deaf ears and have been for an hour
2288 
2289Emlis2019-10-07
2290but what relevancy does that have
2291 
2292Keening2019-10-07
2293not much
2294thus don't bother
2295 
2296Emlis2019-10-07
2297I was telling you, that there is almost a guaranteed chance of having toth lose value due to misplay
2298whereas it's uncommon to lose value on crows due to misplay
2299making toth actually harder to reach full value with
2300 
2301Keening2019-10-07
2302and i said it's basically up all the time
2303 
2304Emlis2019-10-07
2305basically isn't good enough
230680% isn't 100%
2307 
2308Lobo2019-10-07
2309One of the funniest part is talking on using toth while having a Feeding Frenzy trait :open_mouth:
2310 
2311Scoteh2019-10-07
2312:POGGERS:
2313 
2314Teheebae2019-10-07
2315FF :ok_hand:
2316 
2317Emlis2019-10-07
2318which means there is room to lose value
2319 
2320Teheebae2019-10-07
2321But 80 is closer to 100 than 0, so it must be good
2322
2323 
2324Ghosteld2019-10-07
2325with crows :TriDance:
2326
2327 
2328Scoteh2019-10-07
2329He did it, the mad man
2330 
2331Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2332lmfao ghost.
2333 
2334Keening2019-10-07
2335D&D uptime? 74.83% uptime
2336 
2337Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2338:tridance: is my new fave thing
2339 
2340Emlis2019-10-07
2341uptime is not relevant, 3 stack uptime is
2342 
2343Keening2019-10-07
2344you always get 3 stack uptime if you have 3 traits of dnd
2345 
2346Emlis2019-10-07
2347uh
2348 
2349Martyi2019-10-07
2350lol what?
2351 
2352Scoteh2019-10-07
2353Where is this "&" and "n" coming from
2354 
2355Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2356?????????????? my head hurts so much. the fuck am i even reading
2357 
2358Lobo2019-10-07
2359Ahah
2360 
2361Keening2019-10-07
2362dance of death
2363 
2364Martyi2019-10-07
2365Holy shit Lololol
2366 
2367Emlis2019-10-07
2368how does dance of death traits, help stack uptime
2369dance of death traits HURT stack uptime, and it's worth it
2370 
2371Scoteh2019-10-07
2372Oh oh oh
2373 
2374Maikl2019-10-07
2375dungeons n dragons
2376 
2377Lobo2019-10-07
2378Want to know too
2379 
2380Scoteh2019-10-07
2381I get this one
2382 
2383Keening2019-10-07
2384we're talking about two different things here.
2385 
2386Emlis2019-10-07
2387clearly
2388 
2389Scoteh2019-10-07
2390What hes saying is that he has higher dod uptime because of toth
2391 
2392Keening2019-10-07
2393scoteh thank you
2394
2395 
2396Lobo2019-10-07
2397Yeah, but higher DoD uptime =/= more dps
2398 
2399Scoteh2019-10-07
2400I am starting to speak moron
2401 
2402Ghosteld2019-10-07
2403toplog has perma 3 stack uptime with crows :peeposhrug:
2404
2405 
2406Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2407go scoteh go xD
2408 
2409Emlis2019-10-07
2410higher dod uptime with toth
2411higher dps with crows
2412@Keening which do you want
2413more dps or more dod uptime
2414SEEMS PRETTY OBVIOUS TO ME
2415 
2416Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2417Uptime looks better on a green log? DUR. it makes sense now.
2418xD
2419 
2420Ghosteld2019-10-07
2421Also on 2 minute fights, no matter what you do DoD is mega RNG
2422 
2423Scoteh2019-10-07
2424We could actually math this out though guys
2425 
2426Teheebae2019-10-07
2427:slight_smile:
2428 
2429Itsy2019-10-07
2430I think we should all just man up and play the one true spec,
2431Survival.
2432 
2433Scoteh2019-10-07
2434So take the overall damage done by crows on the fight
2435
2436 
2437Maikl2019-10-07
2438you would have to compare 10+ pulls from both talent choices and average them to see the real difference
2439 
2440Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2441yeah on your own with that one scoteh xD
2442 
2443Scoteh2019-10-07
2444Get "his" dod uptime vs crows players uptime
2445 
2446Lobo2019-10-07
2447Don't talk about survival, trap dancing was fun (yeah it's very old, but meh)
2448 
2449Scoteh2019-10-07
2450And then -1k dps for every second extra he has of dod uptime
2451 
2452Keening2019-10-07
2453https://wowanalyzer.com/report/DBjQa9VyLKYbkm18/3-Heroic+Radiance+of+Azshara+-+Kill+(3:25)/Adventuring/statistics
2454WoWAnalyzer: Heroic Radiance of Azshara - Kill (3:25) by Adventuring
2455Use WoWAnalyzer to analyze your gameplay and get suggestions to become a better raider.
2456
2457 
2458patty2019-10-07
2459I agree with Keening is it much better to play only 2 buttons instead of 3. He is truly the mastermind of this discord.
2460 
2461Keening2019-10-07
2462thanks patty
2463 
2464Scoteh2019-10-07
2465And then work out whether crows is more!
2466WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY
2467 
2468Maikl2019-10-07
2469HC radiance :Pepega:
2470 
2471Keening2019-10-07
2472Maikl, what the fuck just give me a break
2473 
2474Stonefire2019-10-07
2475Some of you guys are why people still call us hunatards :frowning:
2476 
2477Keening2019-10-07
2478you in EU? give me guild invite i'll show you in mythic np. my current progress doesnt matter it's not about ME in the end it's about the viability of toth&gale vs crow's&crow's
2479 
2480Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2481they do not matter Keening - Heroic is vastly different from Mythic.
2482 
2483Keening2019-10-07
2484yes I know it's different
2485so is any fight compared to patchwerk
2486 
2487Ghosteld2019-10-07
2488:PepeLaugh:
2489
2490nice opener
2491 
2492Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2493you know sims dont account for 100% and you can adjust the api for different variables right?
2494 
2495Scoteh2019-10-07
2496:NotLikeThis:
2497 
2498Keening2019-10-07
2499the constant player bashing in here..
2500
2501 
2502Damkus2019-10-07
2503this is great keep goin
2504 
2505Ghosteld2019-10-07
2506Whats the point of taking toth when you are using barbed/bw incorrectly :ThonkDumb:
2507 
2508Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2509^
2510 
2511Keening2019-10-07
2512how do I use it incorrectly @Ghosteld
2513 
2514Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2515This isnt player bashing - this is us trying to make you understand - if you are going to try prove a point be damn sure you have the evidence so people are willing to take you seriously.
2516 
2517Maikl2019-10-07
2518he doesn't know :pepegiggle:
2519 
2520Silva2019-10-07
2521BW should be before Barbed so its going to take off its cd.
2522 
2523Ghosteld2019-10-07
2524You shot barbed shot twice while bestial wrath was usable thus losing 24 second (+ like 4 seconds of delaying it)
2525 
2526Keening2019-10-07
2527Yea you're right
2528i've got subpar macro
2529but is that what you meant by not using it correctly?
2530 
2531Maikl2019-10-07
2532yes
2533 
2534Keening2019-10-07
2535k
2536 
2537patty2019-10-07
2538Please why you have to be so mean to a prophet of a new build. He is a human after all he does mistakes :slight_smile:
2539 
2540Keening2019-10-07
2541so, my opener can improve
2542 
2543Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2544I think dude, once you have better gear/have actually studied the Guide you are suggesting Azor improves. you may actually see results.
2545 
2546Keening2019-10-07
2547what the fuck?
2548 
2549Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2550And thus your current points you will then learn are invalid and have already been proven as incorrect.
2551 
2552Keening2019-10-07
2553my points arent invalid they're VERY valid, especially for people still learning the basics... if you're bashing me for having a faulty opener imagine what mistakes and improvement people lower down the ladder has with trying to keep up optimising their characters in a build that only performs 100% if you perform 100%, it's not as forgiving as something more simple and easier to use.
2554 
2555Xath2019-10-07
2556huh so someone dropped another barrel of nitroglycerin onto a spec argument it seems sheesh
2557 
2558Lobo2019-10-07
2559/facepalm
2560 
2561Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2562for gods sake dude, we arent bashing you - If you posted those logs into #log  reviews  you wouldve been told the same thing there.
2563As would any new player asking for advice.
2564 
2565Damkus2019-10-07
2566think people who cant figure out that you should press bestial wrath before blasting barbed shots need a brain scan, not a new build
2567 
2568Prier2019-10-07
2569wait is this guy back again?
2570 
2571Keening2019-10-07
2572see what i'm saying
2573 
2574Prier2019-10-07
2575i coulda swore we had this argument in the mm discord like 2weeks ago
2576 
2577Keening2019-10-07
2578I wasnt in mm 2 weeks ago
2579I've not said this before
2580but I guess why people don't come around often
2581geez
2582 
2583Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2584We are one of the if not most uptodate class discords in terms of Guides/theorycrafting
2585
2586 
2587Prier2019-10-07
2588your advocating for playing something worse cause its easier
2589why not get better at the hard thing
2590 
2591Keening2019-10-07
2592what's your uptime on Dance of death in any random fight?
2593 
2594Prier2019-10-07
2595and do more dps that wayt
2596 
2597Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2598if your build had some form of credibility - it would be there.
2599 
2600Emlis2019-10-07
2601@Keening you're looking at the wrong information, dod uptime varies significantly based on rng,
2602asking that, as though it means something, puts more doubt on anything you say
2603 
2604Keening2019-10-07
2605rng can be reduced with gale
2606rng can be reduced with toth
2607 
2608Lobo2019-10-07
2609Then only way to have no rng on dod would be to have 100% crit
2610 
2611Emlis2019-10-07
2612Irrelevant, you don't know by what %, you don't know what part is rng, if it was a good or bad attempt
2613you're asking for useless information
2614 
2615Keening2019-10-07
2616just give me a friggen number? not that hard is it?
2617 
2618Emlis2019-10-07
2619invalidates your argument even more
2620 
2621Keening2019-10-07
2622i had 75% uptime on two bosses we looked at
2623 
2624Emlis2019-10-07
2625okay, i get from 30% to 90% depending on the fight :slight_smile:
2626it's rng
2627this is why we use sims, which has 10,000 attempts to go off of
2628 
2629Keening2019-10-07
2630so can you simulate uptime in raidbots? if so, then we should be able to break this down in a few steppes with no more argumentation needed.
2631 
2632Emlis2019-10-07
2633No because sims say it's less dps to do what you're suggesting
2634which means what you're saying is irrelevant
2635more dps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more dod uptime
2636 
2637Keening2019-10-07
2638You can't simulate uptime in raidbots because sim says it's less dps to what i'm suggesting?
2639wtf?
2640 
2641Emlis2019-10-07
2642you can see uptime in buffs
2643of the sim you already did
2644that already said it was worse dps
2645that we already saw
2646and already realised you're wrong
2647 
2648Ryv2019-10-07
2649:pepeDjChristmas: :popcorn~1:
2650 
2651Silva2019-10-07
2652Autistic fest. Thank u.
2653
2654
2655 
2656patty2019-10-07
2657This just means the APL of the simm is wrong for the superior build. No way the Kenning is wrong here.
2658 
2659Keening2019-10-07
2660Manners ffs
2661what the flying fuck with the acid, manner up.
2662stop jumping character..
2663 
2664Prier2019-10-07
2665i bet keening denies climate change too
2666so typical
2667 
2668Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2669Hey guys isnt the world flat?
2670 
2671Emlis2019-10-07
2672@Keening People are just memeing it because you're not making sense and making statements and arguments that don't make sense
2673 
2674Keening2019-10-07
2675meming it? you're ok with that?
2676 
2677Emlis2019-10-07
2678i have no power
2679goatface is the guy with power
2680i'm just a regular talker here
2681 
2682Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2683You also make sense Emlis.
2684 
2685Prier2019-10-07
2686i believe its spelt cents kazzo
2687cmon bruh
2688 
2689Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2690xD soz
2691 
2692Silva2019-10-07
2693It goes for 5 hours right?
2694 
2695patty2019-10-07
2696What part of my comment is a 'meme'? I don't even know what that means. I am just trying to show support of an unused build which makes hunters fun.
2697 
2698Ryv2019-10-07
2699Is crows cd 45 or 60 :pepeDjChristmas: :popcorn~1: ?
2700 
2701Prier2019-10-07
2702this beats the mm one we had the other week about using passive trinkets increases your dps
2703what a meme that was
2704 
2705Toth is real2019-10-07
2706Sounds similar
2707 
2708Prier2019-10-07
2709mmhm
2710i pve'd my way to 2k in arena today boy lol
2711 
2712Damkus2019-10-07
2713wtf with what comp
2714
2715 
2716Prier2019-10-07
2717bm resto druid
2718 
2719Ryv2019-10-07
2720Thought it would be 3x bm :FeelsBadMan:
2721 
2722Prier2019-10-07
2723i do so much dmg everyone just falls over eventually
2724lol
2725oh lol
2726 
2727Damkus2019-10-07
2728damn
2729and here i thought bm hutners were poo in pvp
2730 
2731Prier2019-10-07
2732im playing that full vers build
2733for bm
2734seems legit
2735 
2736Scoteh2019-10-07
2737@Prier have you tried using toth?
2738 
2739Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2740As i said - and it wasnt intended to be a "meme" @Keening  This discord is kept well uptodate and new builds/theorycrafts take place daily if your build had some credibility to it, it would be on the guide. A good example is the AC/KC build which has recently been discovered as competitive. Proof was provided and it was tested - then added to the guide.
2741 
2742Ryv2019-10-07
2743Full vers :PepoThink: what is this witchcraft
2744 
2745Prier2019-10-07
2746nah i havnt
2747dude
2748its pretty powerful
2749 
2750Keening2019-10-07
2751Let me try and make sense, one final attempt: 
2752
27531))for a beginner it's easier with less buttons in the rotation: consider exploring the toth&gale route
2754
27552))for the intermediate & advanced player, it's important to differentiate between a sim & what you're physically able to reach during a bossfight with the random factors added. If you can't reach the potential of a-murder-of-crows simmed, you might have an easier time reaching the simmed damage in a single target fight with less buttons in rotation & more consistent uptime of DoD. 
2756
2757The highest potential is in a-murder-of-crows i haven't challanged that even once. 
2758However since it's hard to truly maximize your output with the random factors around, (not only in a sim environment, but your irl state while playing) more often than not I argue it's worth playing with toth & gale for the reasons mentioned higher up in this post.
2759
2760I don't argue against that it sims lower, I argue against the fact that your personal output will possibly be higher since you don't have to worry about crows, as well as naturally getting higher uptime on DoD and so on.
2761
2762However, some of you should really just.. well idk, try and be nice and not suck up to the "group" and actually think before you type & attack someone for thinking differently than yourself.
2763
2764With this said, I'm fine with just being silent from now on.
2765
2766 
2767Ryv2019-10-07
2768Jesus christ
2769 
2770Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2771omg essay.
2772 
2773Keening2019-10-07
2774guess it was too much to ask for, just read. Ill be gone now. bye
2775thx for a wonderful chat lol
2776 
2777Ryv2019-10-07
2778I mean I am on the bus but holy fuck
2779 
2780Scoteh2019-10-07
2781:cantwakeup:
2782 
2783Emlis2019-10-07
2784@Keening It is harder to reach the potential of toth, than the potential of crows
2785significantly harder to reach toth potential
2786 
2787proximitynz2019-10-07
2788if you cant handle the complexity of a 1 APM ability
2789 
2790Damkus2019-10-07
2791go off king
2792 
2793Ultracasual2019-10-07
2794@Keening Don’t take it too personally mate. A month ago there was this guy called Freerun saying BoTE is great in dungeons and everyone was making fun of him. He got banned over here, but the same people who were making fun use BoTE some weeks and even suggest doing it. You do you mate, this  build works for you, use it.
2795 
2796proximitynz2019-10-07
2797how did you manage to turn your pc on in the first place
2798 
2799Prier2019-10-07
2800zhttps://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/darkspear/hogx
2801World of Warcraft
2802Hogx - Character - WoW
2803Hogx (Darkspear) ❮Dara Mactíre❯ - 120 Human Beast Mastery Hunter, 446 ilvl
2804
2805this build
2806 
2807patty2019-10-07
2808YOU SAID YOU GONNA BE SILENT!
2809 
2810Keening2019-10-07
2811@Ultracasual These people are just pawns mate, from afar it's a bit pathetic to watch.
2812I said yes, but you didnt even read it before flaming
2813 
2814Damkus2019-10-07
2815thats a lot of vers
2816 
2817Keening2019-10-07
2818literally two seconds after I post I get flamed for it.
2819or made fun of
2820 
2821Emlis2019-10-07
2822@Keening I read it, and swiftly realised you didn't read what I said, when I told you that toth is harder to reach max potential of
2823why can you ignore what I tell you, but you get upset if other people do that to you?
2824
2825 
2826Prier2019-10-07
2827hey keening out of interest would you say us as a people are catastrophically warming the planet?
2828 
2829Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2830@Ultracasual  he can do him but will never achieve the maximum output of his character. This discord is here for that reason amongst others, so we will discredit him instead of saying oh thats a great idea, when quite frankly it isnt.
2831 
2832give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2833@Keening getting the optimal benefit of toth assumes you play your rotation flawlessly as almost every button you press is impacted by the crit bonus from it. Getting the optimal benefit of crows assumes you press it once a minute roughly on CD.
2834What do you think is easier.
2835 
2836Prier2019-10-07
2837oof i bet hes replying to me
2838 
2839give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2840TOTH's output is directly proportional to how well you press every other button. Crows do not care. If you do 35k dps, toth will be a smaller benefit than if you do 50k, but as long as crows is hit on cd and the gear is the same, crows remains consistent.
2841That is what @Emlis has been trying to explain
2842 
2843Keening2019-10-07
2844Prier I would say the human race have been destroying habitat for the last 150k years. with every historic city being built, a lot of forest were chopped down to pave way for housing & farming. Lots of the large animals earlier thought to have died out due to the "ice age" I believe have died out due to human exploatiation rather.
2845
2846As for climate, it has been higher temperature on the earth earlier in it's history. Nature can adapt to temperature changes, short of the very sudden ones following E.L.E events. Some would argue humans are one.
2847
2848I'm happy to give you some links if you want, but well you're only trolling me anyway so.
2849 
2850Emlis2019-10-07
2851oh yikes
2852 
2853Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2854@Prier you werent wrong
2855LMFAO
2856 
2857Prier2019-10-07
2858i knew it
2859 
2860Keening2019-10-07
2861sure
2862 
2863Emlis2019-10-07
2864@Keening why are you ignoring what I'm saying though
2865 
2866Keening2019-10-07
2867Emlis, say again let me see what you mean
2868so much jitter here
2869sorry
2870 
2871Emlis2019-10-07
2872you've avoided acknowleding it like 10 times
2873 
2874Keening2019-10-07
2875must've missed it
2876 
2877Emlis2019-10-07
2878scroll up, @give wordup loot or ban explained it in detail
2879
2880 
2881Emlis2019-10-07
2882very recently
2883 
2884Keening2019-10-07
2885I'm not gonna scroll up, say what you were saying and i'll give arguments to it, if you're willing to listen/take it in from my perspective.
2886 
2887Emlis2019-10-07
2888:neutral_face:
2889 
2890Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2891Copy pasta Emlis.
2892 
2893Keening2019-10-07
2894TOTH's output is directly proportional to how well you press every other button. Crows do not care. If you do 35k dps, toth will be a smaller benefit than if you do 50k, but as long as crows is hit on cd and the gear is the same, crows remains consistent.
2895That is what @Emlis has been trying to explain
2896 
2897give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2898TOTH's output is directly proportional to how well you press every other button. Crows do not care. If you do 35k dps, toth will be a smaller benefit than if you do 50k, but as long as crows is hit on cd and the gear is the same, crows remains consistent.
2899 
2900Keening2019-10-07
2901this ?
2902 
2903Emlis2019-10-07
2904yes
2905 
2906give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
2907@Keening getting the optimal benefit of toth assumes you play your rotation flawlessly as almost every button you press is impacted by the crit bonus from it. Getting the optimal benefit of crows assumes you press it once a minute roughly on CD.
2908 
2909Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2910YAY COPY PASTA
2911 
2912Emlis2019-10-07
2913toth is significantly harder to perform as well as sims do, compared to crows
2914 
2915Keening2019-10-07
2916you just naturally get the most of it
2917 
2918Emlis2019-10-07
2919No you do not
2920Because you do not play with barbed shot optimally
2921you make mistakes
2922everyone makes mistakes
2923some significantly more than others
2924 
2925Keening2019-10-07
2926yes but the mistakes are more forgiving: thats my argument for all of this
2927 
2928Emlis2019-10-07
2929They aren't
2930 
2931Prier2019-10-07
2932man im really confused now im usually pretty good at picking what type of person someone is and i had keening all wrong
2933 
2934Vestaraa2019-10-07
2935:FeelsSmartMan:
2936 
2937Emlis2019-10-07
2938you're unlikely to miss a single crows cast in a fight, but it happens
2939you will almost always have mistakes with barbed shot, ranging from minor to very notable @Keening
2940 
2941Toth is real2019-10-07
2942Welcome to the Jungle Vest
2943We got Goats
2944 
2945Prier2019-10-07
2946how can you believe trusted and confirmed sources of 1  topic but comepletly ignore them on another
2947what a time to be alive
2948 
2949Scoteh2019-10-07
2950Are we actually still discussing ways to play badly as best we can?
2951 
2952Silva2019-10-07
2953Also your barbed shot depends on your crit and how much you can pull off the potential mistakes.
2954 
2955Keening2019-10-07
2956making mistakes with toth is more forgiving than with crows, not only because well crows can be used optimally.. but also because it lowers your amount of barbed triggers in the fight. with more barbed triggers, you don't have to play it optimally to keep uptime high.
2957
2958same applies for DoD argument with gale vs crow's nest: More evenly spread throughout the fight, can just keep bashing barbed shot whenever you want, rather than have to worry you end up with a window of no triggers.
2959 
2960Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2961Yes Scoteh - but its super entertaining.
2962 
2963Prier2019-10-07
2964yes scoteh we picking up from where the mm channel left off
2965 
2966Scoteh2019-10-07
2967Sweet
2968 
2969Emlis2019-10-07
2970@Keening having high uptime does not mean you couldn't have had higher uptime, your argument is honestly garbage
2971because you think uptime is relevant
2972 
2973Keening2019-10-07
2974uptime is relevant when my pet deals 80% of my damage and the melee part is up to 20% or more of it
2975
2976 
2977Emlis2019-10-07
2978When all that's relevant is how much dps you lose compared to how a sim performs with it
2979 
2980Scoteh2019-10-07
2981Can we move onto me justifying why I'm gonna use inkpod on azshara cos I'm pepega?
2982 
2983Prier2019-10-07
2984im pretty sure hes trolling he has to be by now right?
2985 
2986Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
2987but Font/Coral :frowning:
2988 
2989Emlis2019-10-07
2990okay yeah look, end of the day, you're genuinely too stupid to comprehend what I'm trying to say, and I've reached my limit of patience, @Keening maybe draco will put up with you for longer
2991 
2992Prier2019-10-07
2993nah better off using 2 passive trinkets
2994 
2995Emlis2019-10-07
2996but you're genuinely a bad player who doesn't know how their spec works
2997 
2998Scoteh2019-10-07
2999"Font is awkward and I cba" now all of you argue with me for 4 hours while I act like you all dont understand my genius
3000 
3001Emlis2019-10-07
3002and are looking in all the wrong places
3003 
3004Keening2019-10-07
3005Emlis you're trying to say that DPS is all that matters, and I agree
3006 
3007Emlis2019-10-07
3008Best of luck
3009 
3010Prier2019-10-07
3011they only cost you 1000 dps but youll have a better time using them and thats all that matters
3012 
3013give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3014@Keening thrill buffs kill command. If you miss a single kill command over an entire fight, thrill loses value compared to sims. How many kill commands does wowanalyzer say you miss on a good fight? Now add this same argument for anything that isn't cobra shot (your lowest impact spell)
3015 
3016Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3017@Emlis upmost respect for putting up for that long. GG.
3018
3019 
3020give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3021@Scoteh team fuck font represent
3022 
3023Keening2019-10-07
3024the circlejerk is real.
3025 
3026LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3027And you're the one getting jerked on
3028 
3029Keening2019-10-07
3030sure
3031 
3032Emlis2019-10-07
3033Your idea of circle jerk is 10 people knowing what they're talking about, and you not having any idea
3034 
3035Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3036Circle? i have no idea who Emlis is. i just know she knows her shit.
3037 
3038Scoteh2019-10-07
3039Bam, my lower dps but less effort method already more popular than Keenings
3040 
3041Prier2019-10-07
3042keening whats your thoughts on new playings avoiding double on use trinkets so they dont get overwhelmed early in their wow career?
3043 
3044LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3045One thing to stick to your opinion, completely other is to disregard the knowledge and evidence of people who are the best of this spec.
3046 
3047Keening2019-10-07
3048Prier, well to make the "most" out of your situation just bind one of them to a macro that you use in your rotation. and try and line up the font of power for high dps phases of the fight. careful with the 20 second overlap/gcd tho
3049 
3050Prier2019-10-07
3051thats not what i was asking
3052 
3053give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3054:GWseremePeepoThink:
3055 
3056Prier2019-10-07
3057i was asking should you not using2   on use because its 2 hard
3058 
3059Scoteh2019-10-07
3060Oh guys I've had a breakthrough
3061 
3062Prier2019-10-07
3063shouldnt i go with the easier and safer bet
3064?
3065
3066 
3067give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3068@Scoteh team fuck font represent
3069 
3070Keening2019-10-07
3071the circlejerk is real.
3072 
3073LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3074And you're the one getting jerked on
3075 
3076Keening2019-10-07
3077sure
3078 
3079Emlis2019-10-07
3080Your idea of circle jerk is 10 people knowing what they're talking about, and you not having any idea
3081 
3082Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3083Circle? i have no idea who Emlis is. i just know she knows her shit.
3084 
3085Scoteh2019-10-07
3086Bam, my lower dps but less effort method already more popular than Keenings
3087 
3088Prier2019-10-07
3089keening whats your thoughts on new playings avoiding double on use trinkets so they dont get overwhelmed early in their wow career?
3090 
3091LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3092One thing to stick to your opinion, completely other is to disregard the knowledge and evidence of people who are the best of this spec.
3093 
3094Keening2019-10-07
3095Prier, well to make the "most" out of your situation just bind one of them to a macro that you use in your rotation. and try and line up the font of power for high dps phases of the fight. careful with the 20 second overlap/gcd tho
3096 
3097Prier2019-10-07
3098thats not what i was asking
3099 
3100give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3101:GWseremePeepoThink:
3102 
3103Prier2019-10-07
3104i was asking should you not using2   on use because its 2 hard
3105 
3106Scoteh2019-10-07
3107Oh guys I've had a breakthrough
3108 
3109Prier2019-10-07
3110shouldnt i go with the easier and safer bet
3111?
3112
3113 
3114Toth is real2019-10-07
3115Even if the other trinket is usually coral?
3116 
3117give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3118It is an extra button to click after all
3119 
3120Keening2019-10-07
3121Prier it depends on YOU, and that's my point entirely.
3122 
3123Prier2019-10-07
3124because if i use the double on use trinkets incorecctly ill lose dps in the long run?
3125 
3126Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3127I cant even xD
3128 
3129Keening2019-10-07
3130it doesnt matter what the sim says, if you can't live up to it. you should play with what YOU deal the most damage with
3131 
3132Tylkkor2019-10-07
3133Hello , i have  a question regarding BM hunter ? is there too many button to press to play it correctly ?
3134 
3135Prier2019-10-07
3136loooool
3137its gotta be the same guy
3138from the mm channel
3139 
3140chonka2019-10-07
3141if you go toth build it gets way better
3142 
3143Scoteh2019-10-07
3144@Keening you will literally never gain traction her simply because the whole basis of your argument is how to be bad in the best way. No-one here shares that mindset and believes you should just try harder to be good. So you will never gain any traction with this. We get it, we just all disagree on a fundamental level.
3145 
3146Prier2019-10-07
3147either that or they are lon lost brothers seperated at birth
3148 
3149Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3150Chonka please no - you are in my guild. dont even.
3151 
3152Tylkkor2019-10-07
3153i mean im used to play moonkin and just spam moonfire so im affraid of trying that complicated class
3154 
3155Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3156Perfect Summary Scoteh. thanks.
3157 
3158Prier2019-10-07
3159i dont crows is to hard for me also
3160im team #keening
3161 
3162Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3163Gotta change your name so you #represent @Prier
3164 
3165give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3166@Keening at the end of the day, the situation is that you came here looking for validation for something that is, to put it simple, a fucking stupid choice. We're not going to support that. When you can, with a straight face, argue that playing badly with toth has a smaller impact than with crows, an ability that you can usually delay for half a minute without fearing losing a use over the duration of a fight, I don't know what else to say. Just because thrill has a passive benefit does not mean it is easier to get the optimal benefit from. Passive stats are the hardest thing to get the highest increase from because they rely on perfect play. Same goes for proc trinkets.
3167You'd pick a proc trinket over a stat trinket if they sim the same
3168 
3169Prier2019-10-07
3170okay guys
3171 
3172give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3173Any day of the week
3174 
3175Prier2019-10-07
3176i know how to solve this
3177 
3178give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3179Because procs are easier.
3180But when they sim worse
3181We have to use font
3182 
3183Keening2019-10-07
3184@Scoteh I can relate to this, but this is where I disagree with the entire thing. I know the majority in this forum wants the TOP-SIM strategy to be the only viable strategy, but my point is that the REAL damage increase the majority of players playing wow & hunter would see would come from suggestions like someone said before "WA to AmoC" or to take the route I was advocating for: toth & gale, and just forget about trying to fit crow into the rotation, I'm not saying crow is BAD, I'm saying the 9% crit is gives a LOT of leway to not fail with your uptime on DoD/frenzy.
3185 
3186give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3187And existencd is hell
3188 
3189Keening2019-10-07
3190yes you want to pick the procc trinket, maybe even if it sims 500 dps lower, if you can't optimize your use of trinket to live up to the SIM it will fall behind the trinket with the procc.
3191 
3192Prier2019-10-07
3193keening if you had the choice between walking up a 10km mountain everyday to collect clean drinking water or drinking sludge from a puddle cause it was easier and you were better at that  , what would you do?
3194 
3195give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3196Lmfao
3197Hook line and sinker
3198 
3199Prier2019-10-07
3200i think ive got him here boys
3201my master plan
3202 
3203Keening2019-10-07
3204I would go up as little as I had to, perhaps carry some down with me so I only had to go up there every few days
3205
3206 
3207Prier2019-10-07
3208is coming together
3209 
3210give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3211Look how he jumped on that throwaway joke
3212 
3213Keening2019-10-07
3214I would stilltdrink similiar amount of water tho, maybe a lil less.
3215 
3216Prier2019-10-07
3217i think my work is done here boys
3218 
3219Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3220HES ACTUALLY ANSWERED THAT the fuck is actually happening right now.
3221 
3222Tylkkor2019-10-07
3223drink vodka problem solved bitch :open_mouth:
3224i know im a genius guys
3225 
3226give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3227Then you switch out of the muddy puddlr
3228And learn to climb the mountain keening
3229Time to spec crows
3230 
3231Keening2019-10-07
3232give wordup loot or banIdag 13:50
3233@Keening at the end of the day, the situation is that you came here looking for validation for something that is, to put it simple, a fucking stupid choice. We're not going to support that. When you can, with a straight face, argue that playing badly with toth has a smaller impact than with crows, an ability that you can usually delay for half a minute without fearing losing a use over the duration of a fight, I don't know what else to say. Just because thrill has a passive benefit does not mean it is easier to get the optimal benefit from. Passive stats are the hardest thing to get the highest increase from because they rely on perfect play. Same goes for proc trinkets.
3234
3235
3236Youre overseeing the point: toth & gale gives more consistency in the other aspects of the class, giving you a real increase in uptime of frenzy & DoD that in many situations, especially aoe situations overshadow that one of Murder of Crows.
3237 
3238Prier2019-10-07
3239do you see what im getting at keening
3240 
3241Keening2019-10-07
3242I can answer you all day, no problem. my point still stands
3243 
3244Prier2019-10-07
3245the clean mountain water you have to walk 10 km for each day
3246is the correct way to play a spec
3247and the sludge
3248is ur dumb idea
3249 
3250Keening2019-10-07
3251it's more forgiving & easier to play with and that's all I want to put into the discussion
3252 
3253Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3254it doesnt though? Draco has explained why already.
3255 
3256Soull2019-10-07
3257Why are people arguing with a dude that clearly doesn’t want to hear what people have to say
3258 
3259give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3260Fuck me you're scandinavian. Please tell me you're not from denmark I'd hate to know we've produced someone like you somehow
3261 
3262Keening2019-10-07
3263see, now the character attacks again
3264you guys must be really neat to hang around
3265 
3266LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3267Kinda deserved, tho
3268 
3269Keening2019-10-07
3270sure leo.
3271 
3272Prier2019-10-07
3273im not attacking you i just cant understand why you wanna be drinking sludgey water for me
3274 
3275Tylkkor2019-10-07
3276:goatface:
3277 
3278Prier2019-10-07
3279drink the clean water
3280run crows
3281 
3282Tylkkor2019-10-07
3283damn we need that emote
3284 
3285Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3286Legit if Azor rereads this convo
3287my god.
3288Anureism at minimum.
3289 
3290Tylkkor2019-10-07
3291:goat: :slight_smile:
3292 
3293Keening2019-10-07
3294I don't really get the problem
3295 
3296Prier2019-10-07
3297weve noticed
3298 
3299Soull2019-10-07
3300The problem is crows is easier to play and better dps
3301 
3302Keening2019-10-07
3303Maximum dps given the right gear (sucky one that produce 51kdps doesnt count) AmoC setup & top simmed dps has the potential to give maximum dps.
3304
3305my angle: make a mistake and it's less forgiving than the one I'm proposing.
3306 
3307Soull2019-10-07
3308So why even bother learning sub optimal
3309 
3310Keening2019-10-07
3311just leave it at that
3312 
3313Prier2019-10-07
3314you shouldnt be  starting a fight with the mentality of " im going to make a mistake so im gonna run this instead"
3315just play better
3316ya dig
33174head
3318 
3319Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3320^ Make the 10km trip and dont spill water on the way down = orange log.
3321= big pog
3322 
3323Prier2019-10-07
3324finally someones using my example
3325i put alot of thought into that
3326 
3327Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3328i got you bro
3329 
3330Prier2019-10-07
3331oh no
3332hes here
3333goatface
3334hiude
3335 
3336Tylkkor2019-10-07
3337:goat:
3338 
3339Keening2019-10-07
3340:goat:
3341 
3342Prier2019-10-07
3343i hope azor find my water joke funny
3344 
3345Tylkkor2019-10-07
3346i dont understand why hunter have to walk 10km montain to get orange parse
3347 
3348Martin2019-10-07
3349Hello fellow master of beasts, when will we be able to tame druids
3350:pensive_mouse:
3351 
3352Prier2019-10-07
3353look my example wasnt perfect
3354but it served its purpose
3355 
3356Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3357Patch 8.7 to be precise @Martin
3358 
3359Martin2019-10-07
3360Nice
3361I will bookmark that
3362 
3363Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3364please do - please also remember 10km mountains are your friends
3365 
3366Yarpie2019-10-07
3367cant wait for 8.4 to be announced at blizzcon :slight_smile:
3368 
3369Azortharion2019-10-07
3370:blobhmmm:
3371 
3372Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
33731 emote.... thats it HAHA.
3374 
3375Silva2019-10-07
3376WAIT HOLD ON
3377 
3378LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3379I don't think it deserves even that, to be honest.
3380 
3381Yarpie2019-10-07
3382@Emlis thanks for the tip btw instantly went to around 80% uptime from 40-50% :Pepega:
3383
3384 
3385Emlis2019-10-07
3386:clap:
3387poggies
3388 
3389give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3390I wonder if goatface is like that dude from Harry potter named beardface. "IT'S  NOT BEARDFACE, IT'S BE'ARD FASEH!"
3391 
3392Scoteh2019-10-07
3393Isnt that scrubs?
3394 
3395give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3396It might be
3397It really might
3398Stuff blurs together
3399Scrubs is magical you know?
3400 
3401Emlis2019-10-07
3402old people memory
3403 
3404give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3405I wanted to rewatch scrubs last month but it's gone from netflix
3406Also shush emlis isn't it your bedtime soon
3407 
3408Roffle2019-10-07
3409It's on hulu
3410 
3411give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3412And other very free, very illegal alternatives that are a lot more compelling than trying to keep up with 8 different streaming services
3413I just couldn't be bothered to go further than check on Netflix if it was there at the time tbh
3414 
3415Vestaraa2019-10-07
3416Man what a great read
3417Respeccing when i get home
3418 
3419Keening2019-10-07
3420try it at least, let me know if it's more forgiving to your DoD / frenzy uptime.
3421 
3422Vestaraa2019-10-07
3423I thoght u left
3424Now its awkward
3425 
3426Keening2019-10-07
3427k
3428 
3429Scoteh2019-10-07
3430:eyes:
3431 
3432give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3433:onlypretending:
3434 
3435Vestaraa2019-10-07
3436Impressive u argue that, since your not good enough at the game yoy should never try to be better for 2 hours tho
3437 
3438Keening2019-10-07
3439k
3440
3441 
3442Emo2019-10-07
3443i completely see how toth could theoretically be better than crows because of how crit heavy we are
3444 
3445Keening2019-10-07
3446biggest gain is that it allows for "not perfect play" while still not losing out on the main buffs, DoD, Barbed Shot.
3447and it grows in AoE situations
3448 
3449Emo2019-10-07
3450thats not why i see it as theoretically better
3451 
3452Keening2019-10-07
3453outperforming crow by a long shot in aoe
3454 
3455Scoteh2019-10-07
3456Honestly the most impressive part of this is the definition if "perfect play" involving pressing 1 button every minute
3457That's a bold definition
3458 
3459Emo2019-10-07
3460crows is more complicated than that if you  can chain reset it in dungeons
3461 
3462Keening2019-10-07
3463Scoteh, that's not what i mean by not perfect play: The higher crit you have, the less mistakes you can make with barbed shot & DoD overlaps
3464as in: the more mistakes you're allowed to make
3465get some Aoe cleave in that fight and the 90% frenzy Aspeed will weigh heavy in no time.
3466 
3467Emo2019-10-07
3468like what mistakes? pressing your barbed shot early and hoping for another proc?
3469explain the mistakes you make that make toth worth
3470 
3471chonka2019-10-07
3472pressing barbed on cd i guess hehe
3473 
3474Keening2019-10-07
3475Pressing barbed more than you're allowed to without toth, obviously not on cd unless your build allows for it. -> but with uptime above 50% on BW your KC/Cobra will allow for some spam.
3476 
3477Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3478Fuck me here we go again
3479 
3480Emo2019-10-07
3481"Several people are typing"
3482 
3483Scoteh2019-10-07
3484:pepoHype:
3485 
3486Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3487I actually have a question about Mythic Azshara - Can i ask it without having spam in between about a pointless thing?
3488 
3489Keening2019-10-07
3490again in the wake of the earlier argument: I feel it's pressing to underscore that maximum potential DPS comes from simming with AmoC.
3491 
3492Tylkkor2019-10-07
3493:goat:
3494 
3495Emo2019-10-07
3496so you agree crows is better? kool
3497 
3498Keening2019-10-07
3499I agree crows has the potential to be better, and that's what i've said all the time.
3500 
3501Cerbi2019-10-07
3502amoc is just used on cooldown in sims, there is nothing to mess up, no real min/maxing, you just use the ability when you can
3503 
3504TheOld2019-10-07
3505meanwhile in the dreamgrove: " seeing the pufferfish fly and land on the target increases moral of the raid and will result in better overall dps" :pepeok:
3506 
3507Damkus2019-10-07
3508Keep it goin fellas I have 2 more hours of work
3509 
3510give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3511Keening, the thing is, you're entirely ignoring a different part of the equation here. No one is disputing that more AA cris would lead to more barbed shot procs and thus potential DoD procs (although given Thrill doesn't increase the chance to trigger the DoD buff, this is much smaller than the chance to just get another barbed shot". 
3512
3513However, because Thrill assumes 10.000 simulations of people executing the playstyle with thrill perfectly, that means that if you cast less overall casts than the sims, or you cast less kill commands than the sim expects, you lose out on the 9% crit on abilities that matter more than say, cobra shot, resulting in the "max thrill" thing being literally impossible to reach without perfect play. If you find Crows as an ability that requires one input every 60 seconds to be something you can reasonably "fuck up", then I can guarantee that you're not maximizing your kill commands, which means instead of 70K average kill commands, you're getting 9% crit on 20K average cobra shots, losing huge chunks of damage every time you make a slight misstep.
3514 
3515Keening2019-10-07
3516Cerbi: that's not the "mistakes" -> the 9% crit loss is the mistakes.
3517
3518 
3519Cerbi2019-10-07
35209% crit loss on auto attacks?
3521 
3522Keening2019-10-07
3523yes
3524 
3525Cerbi2019-10-07
3526how often do you think that actually bails you out of bad play
3527cause its not as often as you think
3528 
3529Vestaraa2019-10-07
3530:FeelsSmartMan:
3531Can u make the argument for galecallers again too
3532Id like to hear it
3533 
3534Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3535Please read what Draco just said.
3536 
3537Keening2019-10-07
3538Vestaraa, since you weren't here earlier, what do you mean?
3539 
3540Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3541Over and over and let me ask my question.
3542k thanks :slight_smile:
3543 
3544Emo2019-10-07
3545haha you cant make me respec because i cant read
3546 
3547Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3548not you emo
3549 
3550Emo2019-10-07
3551:feelspepoman:
3552 
3553give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3554@Emo https://i.imgur.com/PGEWNei.png
3555
3556 
3557Emo2019-10-07
3558perfect
3559 
3560Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3561Gents - Serious question now please- Progging on Azshara 9% wipe - very close to kill (need to clean up ward soaking in p4) Currently using Coral 445 & font 430 - Using font prepull/start of p2/before first add p3/Beginning of p4 - When would you consider it optimal to use coral throughout the fight (P1 being irrelevant im purely asking for Azshara p2 and onward) is it worth me just gaining stacks on Azshara until p4 or should i pop it during adds in p3. - Opinions from players who have used the same setup on their kills would be giga appreciated.
3562 
3563Prier2019-10-07
3564annddddd im back
3565 
3566Scoteh2019-10-07
3567Sign is different layout between the 2 panels
3568Low effort meme 3/10
3569 
3570Emo2019-10-07
3571basically on CD @Kazzo/Liam , if you wana know specifics i went through azors logs and some other top logs to see when they did it
3572 
3573give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3574P3 dps shouldn't be a concern, Kazzo, so keep stacking it for P4. P3 is all about living till the end of the "enrage", and if you do that, boss should easily be hitting 50% when you push
3575If it is a concern, use it in P3
3576 
3577Keening2019-10-07
3578@give wordup loot or ban 
3579
3580if you find Crows as an ability that requires one input every 60 seconds to be something you can reasonably "fuck up", then I can guarantee that you're not maximizing your kill commands, which means instead of 70K average kill commands, you're getting 9% crit on 20K average cobra shots, losing huge chunks of damage every time you make a slight misstep.
3581
3582I'm not saying that the crow is the "fuckup" I'm saying that if you don't have the 9% crit that toth brings your other skills can fuckup more often, and you'll lose out on frenzy & DoD.
3583 
3584give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3585You're still ignoring my argument
3586and saying something that's not relevant
3587 
3588Keening2019-10-07
3589@Vestaraa your very important comment up above, what do you mean?
3590
3591 
3592give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3593You're not getting max benefit from thrill
3594So comparing the max benefit of thrill to what you lose from AMoC is not fair, you'd need to assume you lose even more than say, 1K dps by picking thrill
3595 
3596Prier2019-10-07
3597i always wondered hunters were called huntards
3598 
3599give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3600because it's automatically going to be much harder to play optimally
3601than a single use button
3602 
3603Prier2019-10-07
3604i look at keening and understand
3605 
3606Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3607yeah ok so boss is around 53-55% when we push on average and she needs to be lower but our add damage has also been pretty inconsistent - sometimes not dying or people playing like spastics and missing spears.
3608 
3609Prier2019-10-07
3610he is the chosen one
3611 
3612give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3613Idk dude thinks that because an ability is passive
3614it makes shit easier
3615 
3616Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3617Hence my question.
3618 
3619give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3620it's a mystery
3621 
3622Tylkkor2019-10-07
3623its 1 button every minute 
3624@Keening how can you miss it ? 
3625Too busy planning your movment as a BM hunter lmao
3626 
3627give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3628@Kazzo/Liam On which side? Right side will have 15 seconds less to dps the boss before you gotta push the phase than left side due to the shield timings, which sucks dick (giving you 2 min 45 sec in the phase, vs 3 minutes)
3629But if you've not had a single clean P3 entry yet
3630ERh, p4*
3631Then I don't think you can judge if you need the extra boost there
3632 
3633Vestaraa2019-10-07
3634Didnt u say something about gale before
3635I just asusmed u meant galecallers
3636
3637 
3638give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3639oh no
3640 
3641Vestaraa2019-10-07
3642Maybe u meant the enchat
3643 
3644give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3645he's on about the enchant
3646 
3647Vestaraa2019-10-07
3648Enchant
3649Oh
3650:yikes:
3651 
3652give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3653Oh.
3654yea.
3655 
3656Vestaraa2019-10-07
3657@Keening since you’re so adamant about this toth build could u atleast link some logs and or details where your toth build outperforms your crows build
3658 
3659Emo2019-10-07
3660https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F6BRKhr2NGakbtgy#fight=10&type=casts&source=9&ability=303564&view=timeline  @Kazzo/Liam here is azors former rank 1 with visions minor omegalul, but you can see everytime he casts his coral on each target. makes sure to highlight the targets in the top too
3661 
3662Vestaraa2019-10-07
3663For science
3664 
3665Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3666Yeah we always take left first (using stack ranged strat) then push over at right pillar.  - we have had a few solid attempts and good entries as weve had a 9% wipe. we enter p4 with lust so i should continue to pool on Azshara if add dps isnt an issue.
3667 
3668give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3669Holy shit Kazzo
3670your raid leader is a moron :GWseremePeepoHappy:
3671Why do people use that strat
3672wtf
3673 
3674Keening2019-10-07
3675everyone is a moron in here that doesnt think exactly like you it seems
3676 
3677Emo2019-10-07
3678lEsS mOvEmEnT mAxImIzEs DpS
3679 
3680LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3681I think I figured out why keening is still on his argument. Perhaps he's playing on a controller and doesn't have the key for crows.
3682 
3683Keening2019-10-07
3684Leo I have keys for crows
3685I can press it more than each minute
3686 
3687give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3688No Keening
3689 
3690Keening2019-10-07
3691and I can maximize the use in most given situations
3692 
3693give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3694People are morons if they do dumb shit
3695 
3696Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
3697Elaborate @give wordup loot or ban  - could you explain in DM? id like to understand a bit more if thats cool, I believe we are open to changing the strat to make it easier.
3698 
3699Emo2019-10-07
3700nah nah, you need them falconry gloves so when the crows come back to you you can safely hold them without them scratching you
3701 
3702free tirill green status2019-10-07
3703BM is a meme already is there any honest reason to come up with a meme build for a meme spec of a meme class?
3704 
3705chonka2019-10-07
3706one less button to press for a 400 dps loss fair trade XD
3707
3708 
3709Vestaraa2019-10-07
3710^
3711Its a bold stance to take when you say that since you’re not good you should never ever try to be good
3712Especially in here
3713Since were a competitive bubch
3714Bunch
3715 
3716free tirill green status2019-10-07
3717I've got a new spec for BM ready? You dont spec into anything that way you never have to worry about anything :pepegiggle:
3718 
3719Emo2019-10-07
3720i too cast  cobra shot with kill command ready to cast
3721 
3722Keening2019-10-07
3723my point, which doesnt occour to come through is that: you risk your frenzy & DoD stacks falling off more often than not, and in cleave & aoe situations crows lose value over toth.
3724
3725and, second point is, that if you do pick toth over crows is that gale(enchant...) gains value evening out the DoD proccs over the fight more equally.
3726
3727third point: it's easier for new players to press 3 buttons than it is to press 4 while worrying about the buffs of not pressing the first buttons properly occouring more often.
3728
3729going back to the craddle of my argument is: has anyone considered the more relaxed build that allows for more mistakes while still maintaining the buffs mentioned as something for beginners, who actually follow the guide mainly, rather than simming their characters? 
3730
3731--> and 3 hours later the conclusion is, no: we have not; no we will not: AmoC SIMS HIGHER. rofl
3732 
3733free tirill green status2019-10-07
3734If people struggle with 4 buttons then I worry for the future
3735 
3736chonka2019-10-07
3737we got your point but than again is it worth 150k crows do each min, not really
3738 
3739Keening2019-10-07
3740people do struggle with 4 buttons and if you haven't noticed already you should play more pugs
3741 
3742Emo2019-10-07
3743people here dont really pug 4 keys tho :monkaHmm:
3744 
3745Toth is real2019-10-07
3746it's been 5 hours
3747 
3748give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3749Why do you keep mentioning frenzy
3750you've been told like fifteen times
3751that frenzy is irrelevant
3752 
3753Keening2019-10-07
3754Chonka they did not get my point, truly
3755 
3756Teheebae2019-10-07
3757How are you still going Keening???
3758 
3759Keening2019-10-07
3760The frenzy is NOT irrelevant mate
3761lol
3762 
3763Damkus2019-10-07
3764ding dong your opinion is wrong
3765 
3766free tirill green status2019-10-07
3767Perhaps they did and your point is just wrong
3768 
3769Keening2019-10-07
3770this is funny
3771 
3772Prier2019-10-07
3773yeh i think everyone gets ur point keening
3774we are just telling you
3775its wron
3776 
3777Keening2019-10-07
3778thanks, so stop trying to trigger me.
3779 
3780Malarkus2019-10-07
3781I used Toth during my last clear @Keening , it's fine :slight_smile:
3782
3783 
3784LeoZhekov2019-10-07
3785Stop getting triggered
3786 
3787Martin2019-10-07
3788https://tenor.com/view/stop-hes-dead-already-gif-11313631
3789 
3790Keening2019-10-07
3791@Vestaraa is such a follower & scrub.
3792like: I don't have any own arguments but I still flame
3793 
3794Emo2019-10-07
3795big brain
3796 
3797Malarkus2019-10-07
3798I didn't combine it with gale tho
3799 
3800Keening2019-10-07
3801Sim Gale-force vs Nest
3802 
3803Malarkus2019-10-07
3804its a little better
3805 
3806Keening2019-10-07
3807and it's more consistent
3808for DoD proccs, over a given timeframe
3809so less overlapping
3810 
3811give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3812The issue is Keening, you've been told repeatedly why you're wrong, but the fun thing is that while you keep claiming that we're just circlejerking and refuse to view your point, you're doing the exact same thing to us, but we actually know what we're doing and have peers to confirm that we're not being idiots. You, on the other hand, refuse to aknowledge that your assumptions are way off despite having zero proof except "I think a lot of people feel this way because I've done pugs and people play bad".
3813 
3814Vestaraa2019-10-07
3815You’re literally not presenting any arguments
3816Aside from ’im gonna repeat myself until everyone else grows tired so I win by default’
3817 
3818Emo2019-10-07
3819i thought we banned this guy for not giving werdup loot :monkaHmm:
3820 
3821Keening2019-10-07
3822@give wordup loot or ban well i'll tell you something mate, I've people private messaging me right now agreeing with me
3823 
3824give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3825No werdup loot has dropped yet Emo
3826Sure you do Keening
3827 
3828Vestaraa2019-10-07
3829Screenshot it please
3830 
3831give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3832I've got trump telling me he thinks I've got the best arguments as well
3833Can't share though
3834 
3835Keening2019-10-07
3836No way i'm putting them in front of you guys
3837 
3838give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3839National security
3840 
3841Vestaraa2019-10-07
3842Provide any real evidence and we will believe u
3843Just edit the names out
3844Its very sinple
3845Simple
3846 
3847Emo2019-10-07
3848nah include names so we know azor is a filthy toth user
3849jk dont use names
3850 
3851Cerbi2019-10-07
3852the easy mode guide on icy veins used to have this build and it added more confusion to new players because they didnt see anyone else using, then questioned why we would even suggest a sub optimal build just because someone is new
3853 
3854give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3855This is literally the "YOU WOULDN'T KNOW MY GIRLFRIEND, SHE GOES TO ANOTHER SCHOOL" of arguments
3856 
3857Emo2019-10-07
3858draco you dont know that, my gf lives in the nursing home
3859
3860 
3861Vestaraa2019-10-07
3862https://imgflip.com/i/3clj5i
3863Imgflip
3864Oh no it's retarded!
3865
3866 
3867chonka2019-10-07
3868well it got r1 to that korean on zaqul so has it uses :stuck_out_tongue:
3869 
3870Cerbi2019-10-07
3871galestrike enchant is actually fine though if your goal is m+, it's barely behind on single target but better for aoe
3872 
3873Keening2019-10-07
3874
3875 
3876Emo2019-10-07
3877wtf is a borjan
3878what, what is a direktmeddelandehistorik
3879yall say that shit to each other?
3880 
3881Malarkus2019-10-07
3882it sims like 300 less than crows
3883 
3884Emo2019-10-07
3885fucking europenas lmao
3886 
3887give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3888Ok not danish
3889Thank fuck
3890 
3891Malarkus2019-10-07
3892why is everyone here so upset
3893let the man use toth
3894 
3895give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3896We're not upset he uses TOTH
3897 
3898Sikte2019-10-07
3899What is a foreign language :Pepega: :Pepega:
3900:Pepega: :Pepega: :Pepega: :Pepega: :Pepega:
3901 
3902give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3903We're upset he wants everyone else to use it
3904 
3905Prier2019-10-07
3906we dont want him suggesting to other hunters to used a sub par build aswell
3907 
3908Toth is real2019-10-07
3909He wanted the guide to recommend it as an "easy option"
3910 
3911Keening2019-10-07
3912They're upset I say it's more forgiving for beginners & mistakes in general
3913
3914 
3915Vestaraa2019-10-07
3916Its not thi
3917 
3918give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3919It's not
3920 
3921Vestaraa2019-10-07
3922Thats the argument
3923 
3924give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3925That's the issue
3926 
3927Vestaraa2019-10-07
3928It might seem easier coz u have to have 1 less apm
3929 
3930Damkus2019-10-07
3931this mf just took a picture of his screen
3932 
3933give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3934It's more difficult because you don't play perfectly
3935 
3936Vestaraa2019-10-07
3937But in reality it isnt
3938 
3939give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3940Also we can totally figure out who that casual is, we have the last 3 letters of his name
3941 
3942Emo2019-10-07
3943damnit damkus
3944 
3945Keening2019-10-07
3946damkus yes, cause it was easiest way to give you the printscreen
3947 
3948give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3949IM COMMING FOR YOU AQZ
3950 
3951Damkus2019-10-07
3952obviously, sorry
3953 
3954give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3955only 14538 people online
3956 
3957Keening2019-10-07
3958just leave the dude be.
3959 
3960give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3961It's called a joke
3962 
3963Keening2019-10-07
3964some people doesnt find your jokes funny
3965 
3966give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3967something you've missed a fair few times in the past few hours
3968
3969 
3970Keening2019-10-07
3971no offense
3972 
3973Ziar2019-10-07
3974How is crows Complicated? You just use it once a minute
3975 
3976give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3977Others do :GWcmeisterPeepoShrug:
3978Can't please everyone
3979 
3980Prier2019-10-07
3981guys i invented this new technology trhat lets me capture a part of my screen and send it to you guys
3982
3983 
3984Emo2019-10-07
3985i think draco is retarded
3986 
3987Prier2019-10-07
3988pretty cool
3989 
3990give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3991:onlypretending:
3992 
3993Emo2019-10-07
3994GET ME OUT OF YOUR SCREENCAP
3995YOU DIDNT BLUR MY NAME
3996 
3997give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
3998YOU WILL LIVE WITH ME IN THE SCREENCAP FOREVER NOW EMO
3999 
4000Keening2019-10-07
4001Ziar you use it once a minute, but it's complications are "hidden" in the way that you lose 9% crit on your key abilities which gives you less room for error
4002 
4003Prier2019-10-07
4004what about my jokes keening
4005 
4006Emo2019-10-07
4007NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
4008 
4009Prier2019-10-07
4010i feel like ive been on fire all night
4011 
4012Martin2019-10-07
4013STOP YELLING OR IM CALLING IN THE INTERNET POLICE
4014 
4015Vestaraa2019-10-07
4016Jesus how long can we go
4017@Keening do u have logs of you using this build in any type of content
4018 
4019chonka2019-10-07
4020!nobully
4021 
4022C.A.R.L.BOT2019-10-07
4023https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/193476188100886528/255525304498520064/CIC11C5UsAAPrK1.jpg
4024
4025 
4026Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
4027Apparently keening can go for hours - his gf must love him holy shit
4028 
4029Emo2019-10-07
4030THE INTERNET POLICE CANT TAKE AWAY THAT I PICKED TOTH OVER CROWS
4031 
4032Martin2019-10-07
4033:WAYTOODANK:
4034 
4035Prier2019-10-07
4036must be that puddle sludge giving him secret powers
4037 
4038Damkus2019-10-07
4039nice im in a screenshot
4040 
4041Emo2019-10-07
4042https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QHmBy2TNhPqrpcxZ#fight=32&type=damage-done&translate=true&source=11
4043 
4044Prier2019-10-07
4045use fools been drinking the clean water this whole time
4046
4047 
4048Kazzo/Liam2019-10-07
4049:joy::joy: prier stop HAH
4050 
4051Meraned2019-10-07
4052thats it, im calling bully hunters
4053:blobwobpolice:
4054 
4055Ziar2019-10-07
40569% toth crit doesnt affect pets right?
4057 
4058give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4059@Keening I will repeat this:
4060DIfficulty of getting 100% use of Crows: Use it on cooldown, once a minute.
4061
4062Difficulty of getting 100% use of TOTH: Have to play your rotation as perfect as a sim, because the value comes from you getting more crits, which means if you hit 120 cobra, 60 kill commands instead of 100 cobras, 80 kill commands, you lose the value of 9% crit on 20 kill commands, which is a huge hidden "cost". Yes, you will have a high uptime on 9% crit from TOTH, but unless you play perfectly, that 9% crit is not worth as much as you think it is based on the sim.
4063Crows, even if you're borderline retarded, is very easy to get 100% benefit from
4064TOTH is near impossible.
4065 
4066Prier2019-10-07
4067that explains why only koreans are using it
4068its an old meme sir but it checks out
4069 
4070Emo2019-10-07
4071also toth is semi ok for aoe, keep 3 staks of frenzy for aoe pad
4072fukin padders
4073 
4074Martin2019-10-07
4075@give wordup loot or ban the forbidden R word :GASP:
4076 
4077give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4078There's actually only one word in this discord that's banlisted
4079And I've found it
4080 
4081Cerbi2019-10-07
4082also if youre prone to dropping frenzy, youre also dropping toth
4083 
4084Meraned2019-10-07
4085enkrypted?
4086 
4087Emo2019-10-07
4088spitting cobra? @give wordup loot or ban
4089oh no ive been banned
4090 
4091Cerbi2019-10-07
4092since theyre essentially tied together
4093 
4094Prier2019-10-07
4095maybe we should all use stampede instead only gotta cast that once every 3 minutes
4096dang
4097so much time to do other things
4098keening is onto something here
4099 
4100Martin2019-10-07
4101I believe the N word is banned, because i have a screencap of a guy adding lots of different unicodes to bypass it
4102:KEKW:
4103 
4104give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4105DING Martin
4106it is indeed
4107 
4108Martin2019-10-07
4109Man, spitting cobra had such potential
4110 
4111give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4112message doesn't even show if I type it
4113 
4114Martin2019-10-07
4115:PepeHands:
4116why is the range bad
4117 
4118Emo2019-10-07
4119ok but what if im black?
4120thats racist
4121 
4122Martin2019-10-07
4123its just with the hard R its banned
4124 
4125Emo2019-10-07
4126hard R is what i need to say
4127 
4128give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4129I don't even remember how I found out anymore
4130I just know we all started swearing for 5 mins
4131trying to find others
4132 
4133Cerbi2019-10-07
4134im guessing prox was involved
4135 
4136give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4137that were banned
4138That's
4139a fair assumption
4140 
4141Martin2019-10-07
4142your message gets automodded
4143and deleted
4144 
4145Emo2019-10-07
4146its gone
4147cunt
4148whore
4149ok yeah just n word
4150 
4151Meraned2019-10-07
4152they cant ban cunt
4153 
4154Martin2019-10-07
4155just racism banned.
4156 
4157Prier2019-10-07
4158whatever you do dont say the K word
4159 
4160Meraned2019-10-07
4161otherwise prox and emlis cant type anymore
4162 
4163Emo2019-10-07
4164cracker jacks
4165 
4166Martin2019-10-07
4167Man this truly is the BM channel
4168 
4169Prier2019-10-07
4170he will appear in chat and haunt us all
4171
4172 
4173Martin2019-10-07
4174Bad Manners :rageW:
4175 
4176Emo2019-10-07
4177chink
4178 
4179give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4180Dude you should have been around when we all got sent to the gulag Martin
4181 
4182Vestaraa2019-10-07
4183Did he leave
4184 
4185Damkus2019-10-07
4186miss being #4050
4187 
4188Martin2019-10-07
4189I'm old
4190I've been around
4191 
4192give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4193#4913 will forever hold a place in my heart
4194 
4195Martin2019-10-07
4196I think i joined back at the end of wod
4197 
4198give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4199It was more of a 2 hour event though
4200 
4201Martin2019-10-07
4202but i left and rejoined some time ago, so i look new
4203oh
4204 
4205Teheebae2019-10-07
4206Martin is true OG
4207 
4208Keening2019-10-07
4209:goat:
4210 
4211Martin2019-10-07
4212Aren't we all sheeps
4213:sheep:
4214 
4215Meraned2019-10-07
4216:fish:
4217 
4218Emo2019-10-07
4219:gorilla:
4220 
4221Meraned2019-10-07
4222:monkey:
4223 
4224Emo2019-10-07
4225hey thats racist
4226cut it off
4227 
4228Martin2019-10-07
4229:see_no_evil:
4230:hear_no_evil:
4231 
4232Emo2019-10-07
4233reee
4234 
4235Martin2019-10-07
4236:speak_no_evil:
4237 
4238Meraned2019-10-07
4239:agooglemonkey:
4240 
4241Silva2019-10-07
4242Wait hold on, we dont get hard r-word pass while we play BM hunter?
4243 
4244Vestaraa2019-10-07
4245Ok serious question
4246Am i to delay my BW until I have 80 focus
4247Or juat bite the bullet and bw at lower if i dont pool enough
4248 
4249Emo2019-10-07
4250bite the bullet
4251you failed at pooling prior
4252 
4253chonka2019-10-07
4254well sim doesn't pool so you might get few dps but don't really see the focus starving a lot nowdays
4255thing is its not that easy to plan because bw comes a lot sooner if you get barbed proc
4256 
4257Droxer2019-10-07
4258I'm trying to scroll up to find the first message of this TotH talk but it just keep going
4259this was like 5 hours
4260 
4261Emo2019-10-07
4262also if it comes off sooner, you casted some barbed shots. which means you will still be rolling in focus by first gcd in bw i assume
4263 
4264chonka2019-10-07
4265ye you could cap focus
4266 
4267Cerbi2019-10-07
4268or if you pool and use bw, then get a couple procs
4269 
4270give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4271Droxer
4272 
4273Cerbi2019-10-07
4274you just sit at focus cap spamming bs
4275 
4276give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4277it was a slow-ish day
4278 
4279Emo2019-10-07
4280so question regarding the new way to maintain DoD since frenzy is irrelevant. we just casts barbed shot when at 2 stacks and whenever we dont have DoD/about to fall off
4281 
4282chonka2019-10-07
4283something like that not sure if current apl is using it more agresivly on like 1.8 stack or something
4284 
4285give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
42861.4 chonka
4287 
4288Emo2019-10-07
42891.4 stack what? remaining buff duration?
4290 
4291Cerbi2019-10-07
42921.4 charges
4293if you have nothing else to press and you have > 1.4 charges, you use barbed shot
4294 
4295Martin2019-10-07
4296"Kill command has a change to grant you 1.4 charges of barbed shot"
4297 
4298Fructose2019-10-07
4299Folks how do you handle Shivervenom trinket in your progression runs?
4300Is someone forced to use one no matter how much a DPS hit it is for them personally?
4301Which would make sense imo
4302 
4303Azortharion2019-10-07
4304Put it on the guy who loses the least
4305 
4306Freezetrap2019-10-07
4307i think there are people from my group who actually want to use it :person_shrugging:
4308 
4309chonka2019-10-07
4310ye i use it also really aggressive afraid of missing barbed procs :stuck_out_tongue:
4311 
4312Fructose2019-10-07
4313I just noticed we had 0 trinkets last night, and that's while we have 3 hunters and a BrM tank with the weapons
4314That's roughly 4-5k lost raid dps
4315 
4316chonka2019-10-07
4317don't think that much but ye more than caster would lose
4318its like 1.3% lost on hunter i think
4319 
4320Toth is real2019-10-07
4321only casters than don't want that trinket are like fire mages and destro locks
4322 
4323Fructose2019-10-07
4324I just added the APL for no shivervenom and it was like 920 DPS loss for me
4325 
4326chonka2019-10-07
4327ok it says 1.6% for me so ye around 900 dps
4328ye big nerf to raid not to use it, you really need to be selfish hehe
4329 
4330Fructose2019-10-07
4331Okay, found out our destro lock has a 450 in his bag
4332Yeah that'll do lmao
4333
4334 
4335Toth is real2019-10-07
4336I'd rather not
4337 
4338give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4339https://i.imgur.com/4ZMzyWB.png when someone questions crows
4340
4341@Azortharion himself right now watching me do this https://i.imgur.com/KgmF4Kl.png
4342
4343 
4344Martin2019-10-07
4345https://tenor.com/view/black-goat-rearing-standing-hind-legs-gif-5536623
4346@Azortharion what is your favorite color of goat
4347 
4348Azortharion2019-10-07
4349I thought I knew myself.. That I had an identity.
4350 
4351Martin2019-10-07
4352gonna do a visit to pandaria later
4353 
4354Azortharion2019-10-07
4355But today I learned that I am merely goatface
4356Thank you @Keening for opening my eyes to my true self
4357 
4358Martin2019-10-07
4359In the end...Aren't we all goatface
4360 
4361give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4362https://i.imgur.com/HhxBrkq.png join us.
4363
4364 
4365Martin2019-10-07
4366Mindless sheep following activison
4367In hopes of some temporary dopamine boosts
4368:peperain:
4369 
4370Azortharion2019-10-07
4371I am on the arlanda express to Stockholm
4372Where do you live Martin
4373 
4374Lyge2019-10-07
4375Is potion of unbridled fury much better than focused resolve? For single target fights in EP?
4376 
4377Azortharion2019-10-07
4378Yeah
4379 
4380give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4381stockholm syndrome eh
4382 
4383Teheebae2019-10-07
4384https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLYvZ5sX28
4385YouTube
4386V∆GUE
4387Taylor Swift - Trouble (Goat Remix)
4388
4389This is Azor :OMEGALUL:
4390 
4391Martin2019-10-07
4392@Azortharion Kalmar
4393So south
4394 
4395Vestaraa2019-10-07
4396Whats this goatface mene
4397 
4398Emo2019-10-07
4399calling goatface a meme is rude
4400 
4401give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4402Well you see
4403the gem you were discussing with earlier
4404couldn't see Azors' name when Azor responded
4405as he'd gone full retard and named himself "            "
4406https://i.imgur.com/6OTSi9k.png
4407
4408We had a vote and decided that Azor now goes by Goatface.
4409I'm going to try and make it a thing in Gallywix as well, help me out Vestara
4410 
4411Xath2019-10-07
4412what in god's name did I come back to
4413 
4414give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4415Goatface.
4416That is what.
4417 
4418Damkus2019-10-07
4419@Xath run toth
4420 
4421Xath2019-10-07
4422that's like a 1k dps downgrade unless we have another degenerate build that's becoming good
4423 
4424Scoteh2019-10-07
4425Please dont start him again
4426 
4427give wordup loot or ban2019-10-07
4428Xath do you have like
4429an hour
4430 
4431Vestaraa2019-10-07
4432Will do
4433But i dont do much there
4434 
4435Scoteh2019-10-07
4436Just run toth, dont make eye contact.
4437 
4438Vestaraa2019-10-07
4439Havent even boosted yet