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1sn❄wLast Monday at 12:53
2@here
3Done.
4
5Miki ?Last Monday at 12:54
6Thank you, Snow.
7
8Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 12:54
9Sorry guys.
10
11Miki ?Last Monday at 12:55
12No problem. Do you have any specific questions at the moment or would you prefer that I answer the ones you just asked in #enneagram-space ?
13
14Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 12:57
15Latter. Also I'd like more information on 6, to clear up any misconceptions, especially the ones based on behavior.
16Um, thank you both for being understanding & patient with me. This is a bit embarrassing tbh.
17
18Miki ?Last Monday at 13:01
19> Um, thank you both for being understanding & patient with me. This is a bit embarrassing tbh.
20@Bloȿȿom Elric⨳ No worries Blossom haha. It's fine.
21
22So, actually, you are absolutely right that enneagram is about motivations and fears moreso than behaviours! But to think of them separately can be a bit misleading. Why we say that motivations and fears are more important is because....say, for example, you can have a core 7 who withdraws from situations. Withdrawal is a behaviour of Fives, right? But if their motive is to get away from negativity, and they withdraw because they want to find something better/they want to reframe the negative/they want to pursue their happiness, etc., then that makes them a 7, not a 5.
23
24Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 13:02
25That makes sense.
26Also fear & motivation dont seem separate to me. They seem like two sides of the same coin. Cannot have one without the other.
27
28Miki ?Last Monday at 13:02
29Oh of course. I meant thinking of motivations and fears as separate from behaviour. Sorry, I should have clarified!
30
31Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 13:03
32Oh I see no problem.
33
34Miki ?Last Monday at 13:04
35As for the sources, actually, the bot descriptions describe cognitions and behaviours well. The site that we use also is enneagrammer which does separate them somewhat. (There are some iffy things on that website too - such as visual typing, which we don't do here lol - but it's hard to find completely accurate sources, unfortunately.) And of course, there is that overlap between them, such as shown by the example.
36
37Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 13:05
38But yeah I see I really need a lot of help with this. Some part of me wants to stick with 5, even if it's entirely irrational if it's not in my stack. But then another part wants to discard it because I may have had the wrong idea all this time, plus making my old ennea-typing session invalid, and unhelpful for people to learn from. Another thing I'd like to mention, it makes me look like I publicly lied without meaning to, and I sincerely dislike this.
39Also yeah I am not an advocate for visual typing. I spoke about this to someone in VC just last night.
40So after this is settled, I'd like for my old session to be removed.
41
42sn❄wLast Monday at 13:10
43I cannot find your enneagram session. I do not believe it is in #typing-archives
44
45Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 13:10
46Oh, alright.
47That works.
48I still have my copy actually. Yeah I just checked, it's not in that channel. So don't worry about it.
49
50Miki ?Last Monday at 14:00
51Blossom, I can assure you that it doesn't look like you publicly lied, even unintentionally. At most, it only shows that you were misinformed, but more importantly, it shows that you desire to know what it is that you were misinformed about and it shows a willingness to learn.
52
53Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 14:01
54I understand.
55
56Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 14:11
57Going to be on my phone, if you need me to respond to anything. I just want to settle this once and for all, if I even have 5 in my tritype.
58
59Miki ?Last Monday at 14:35
60No worries, Blossom. I recall you mentioned you wanted more information about 6. When you have time, could you pinpoint what it is that you want to know about it?
61
62Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 14:38
63How it shows up in me if you see it. I know you and Snow are very perceptive, so I'd like some input if possible. Also general information about 6, so I can understand better.
64
65Miki ?Last Monday at 14:39
66Oh sure. Give me some time to collect my thoughts on both of those points and I will respond soon.
67
68Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 14:39
69Sure thing, take your time.
70
71Miki ?Last Monday at 18:32
72So I will first start by describing 6 in general. As you know, Sixes seek security. This can manifest in looking into systems or people for support. A common misconception about Sixes is that they subject themselves easily to authority. This can be both true and false. Sixes are generally aware of authority; they are aware of who is with them, who is against them, and they know when they are being challenged or appraised. But think of it like a fight or flight response; there are two responses to stressors, and similarly, there are two kinds of Sixes. The most commonly described Sixes are the phobic Sixes: they tend to (but not always) exhibit the "flight" response; they play nice with authority, they want authority on their side. The other kinds of Sixes (which are often confused with Eights) are counterphobic Sixes: they are aware of authority, but they can rebel if they think it is unfair; they can be the vigilantes, the anti-heros if you will. But Sixes aren't always so partial to society - they can look for something to help them understand the world apart from people, such as various dogmas, doctrines, systems, institutions. They may embrace them (phobic) or not (counterphobic). This is some general information about Sixes, especially Six cores.
73As for your tendencies, I will bring this up (this was my reply in #enneagram-space ) just to help us know what was stated so as not to reinstate things needlessly:
74
75“If you are wondering what tendencies I am talking about that relate to Six... it is your (whether conscious or not) natural inclination to know where support is. When I asked you where it manifests, you brought up Snow and you brought up the descriptions to support your points. Yes, it could just be to provide context, but this style of approach is uncharacteristic of Fives. Sixes can absolutely make logically sound, informed decisions especially with their desire to ensure everything is safe and they cover their bases before they say or do something.”
76
77One of the tendencies about Sixes is to seek confirmation of their knowledge. I know, this seems like Three. But while Three will want confirmation of their image, Six will want confirmation of, as said before, knowledge and beliefs. They point something out and either reference ideas or people to help support their point. Counterphobic Six cores (which you are not) will often debate beliefs, even their own. Why? Because they seek the truth. They seek answers. They will not be content with just nodding their head and going "oh yeah, sure, that makes sense"; they will want to know why.
78
79Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 18:37
80Hm I see.
81
82Miki ?Last Monday at 18:40
83I will reference what you said here in enneagram space:
84
85> People of this personality type essentially fear that they don't have enough inner strength to face life, so they tend to withdraw, to retreat into the safety and security of the mind where they can mentally prepare for their emergence into the world.
86“I had this a lot more when I was younger. I did not feel confident I could do things on my own and without help. I'd get criticized for it frequently for not being proactive with doing things to sustain my life pre-adulthood. I remember someone else stating this, but I do not care for this connotation that 6 seems to imply about having this strong desire for security, when I see little of this in how I think generally, when not interacting with others. Correct me if wrong.”
87
88First, I'm sorry that you got criticized for things that you shouldn't have been criticized for, and that you were treated unfairly in this way. Secondly, there is often mixing up of being "withdrawn" socially and being described as "withdrawn" in the context of enneagram. A Six can appear more withdrawn if having a Five wing, but a Five draws back when faced with fear. A Six will, as mentioned above, seek more information and try to look for systems and sources to help them in this way. Maybe you don't see it as security, and it may not seem as such, but this is one of the ways that Six searches for and attains it.
89Besides this, I think @sn❄w can say more about what Six tendencies she sees in you.
90
91Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 18:40
92Alright.
93I'll be home in a few minutes so I'll definitely be able to respond better. If I could have some instances where I sought out security, this would help.. because atm I'm not sure if that truly applies to me, and it's rubbing me the wrong way quite honestly.
94Also if security seeking in 6s could be clarified further this may debunk whatever bias I may have too.
95
96Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 18:58
97Actually let's make that 15 more minutes, needed to pick up something else outside.
98
99Miki ?Last Monday at 19:05
100No rush, Blossom.
101Honestly, I'm not surprised it's rubbing you the wrong way, haha. You being an 8w7 core... having a 6 fix doesn't seem to make sense, right? But off the top of my head, I can mention observation deck. When you type people, look at how you cover your bases, how you refer to specific lines as proof and support, how you listen to what people have to say and automatically know when your guesses are confirmed (as well as know immediately when they're not confirmed then you go back and double-check).
102
103Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 19:23
104I see. Counterphobic 6 makes some sense.
105The idea of relying on others turns me off quite a bit though. Even if I look at what is said to have some idea, that's because in the past when I haven't, I've gotten it completely wrong, the session(s).
106Finally home.
107
108Miki ?Last Monday at 19:34
109> The idea of relying on others turns me off quite a bit though.
110Haha yes, and this is likely due to your 8 (not wanting to be subject to others) and perhaps even your 3 (with your mention of being independent and hardworking, it evokes an image of self-reliance). Having 6 in your tritype doesn't negate this though! You can perhaps not think of it as reliance, but more like being resourceful, if that helps.
111
112Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Monday at 19:35
113I wasn't aware of that for 3, but I see now.
114Resourceful, I guess it helps to an extent.
115
116——————————————————       February 18, 2020       ————————————————————————
117Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 05:51
118So, I'm looking at 6 description again. And I couldn't help but see this:
119"The Loyalist people of this personality type essentially feel insecure, as though there is nothing is quite steady enough to hold onto."
120
121Just so I'm clear, this is more pointed toward a core 6 correct? Because if I am to take this literally, I'd have to disagree strongly with the insecure notion.
122
123sn❄wLast Tuesday at 06:44
124Very much pointed at core 6. And not only that, a phobic one. 
125One of the biggest misconceptions in enneagram. Alongside 5 being thought to be intellectual; is the thought 6 means insecure.
126
127Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 06:48
128Ah okay, that's helpful.
129So what do you and Miki think, is it possible that I have 6 in my tritype instead? And if so, why is it that 358 seems more like me? I suspect it's because it's behavioral.
130
131sn❄wLast Tuesday at 06:53
132I think you may have 6w5 as your tritype, yes. It's one of the most common mix ups because of how people confuse them with 5w6. 
133As for the tritype, unfortunately not all of them apply since they seem to work based on an order. Which as we know, doesn't work because naturally.. the order of our tritype shifts depending on the situation. I have been working on trying to either make new descriptions or find other ones but it's difficult with the amount of tritypes and then how then appear when reordered. 
134i.e. An 836 will appear differently to a 368. Which is what the description describes.
135?368
136
137Dim Sum ?BOTLast Tuesday at 06:53
138368 - The Justice Fighter
139
140Verbally adept and a good reader of people and situations, you have the ability to identify unjust authority, rebel against tyranny and verbally spar against it. Your life mission is to challenge what is unfair and protect the innocent. A true justice fighter, you are happiest when you can use your protective energy and debating skills in service of others or a cause. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with challenging what you perceive as unfair that you become overbearing, confrontational, anti-authoritarian, and indifferent to the wisdom of emotional intelligence and your tender emotions. Your growing edge is to recognize that your need to challenge and oppose can keep you from knowing who you are or what you feel. True protection comes from being in alignment with your higher self and knowing when to intervene and when to allow events to unfold.
141
142sn❄wLast Tuesday at 06:54
143(if it helps, the definition here for my tritype does not fit me in the least, so)
144
145Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 07:10
146That does help. Sorry I was solving some work situation.
147
148sn❄wLast Tuesday at 07:13
149Alright
150
151Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 07:17
152Also, 836 would probably make more sense.
153
154sn❄wLast Tuesday at 07:18
155Yes, it would.
156
157Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 07:28
158I was looking at the descriptor above and it does appear to fit, I just realize it's not everything. But I digress.
159What makes you think 6w5 over 6w7?
160
161sn❄wLast Tuesday at 07:29
162It's usually the default if one believed 5w6. But we can look into 6w7 as well.
163?6w7
164
165Dim Sum ?BOTLast Tuesday at 07:29
166Gifts:
167
168- The Seven makes Sixes more optimistic and less inclined to imagine the worst
169- This wing invites them to be more optimistic and trusting in the goodness of others
170- Tend to be more extroverted, playful and light-hearted, able to laugh at their own fears
171- The ability to see multiple perspectives supports them in being more innovative
172
173Challenges:
174
175- This wing may make the Six avoid confronting the issues in front of them
176- They may seek escape into ideas or plans to postpone action
177- Fear of pain combines with avoidance of pain, risking withdrawal from life or distraction by trivial things
178
179sn❄wLast Tuesday at 07:30
180So yes, 7 makes the 6 more optimistic. I don't think you do this from a 7 wing. I believe any optimism you may find, is within your 3 fix, instead.
181
182Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 07:30
183Okay sure why not.
184How would that show up with 3 though?
185
186sn❄wLast Tuesday at 07:31
187Completely depends on the situation. 3 isn't only focused on image and how it is portrayed. Behind all that is still the drive to succeed, and that can yield optimism as well.
188
189Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 07:44
190I see that makes sense.
191Yeah, idk much about this, so I wouldn't know.
192Now that I am looking at that descriptor above for 6w7, none of this fits me tbh except
193- They may seek escape into ideas or plans to postpone action
194
195Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 07:56
196Btw, there is this site that takes into consideration placement of the numbers in each tritype. I'd regard the source skeptically, but it appears to be on point in general.
197https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/33480491
198so 836 vs. 368
199Ironically this site is not helpful with what I am looking for atm.
200
201sn❄wLast Tuesday at 09:37
202Ah, I see.
203
204Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 11:46
205I know to take these with a grain of salt, but for 6w5:
206“- May turn to dogma or rigid systems for a sense of safety.”
207Have you ever seen me do this? Also, is it safe to conclude my tritype is 368 now that this discussion has taken place? Unless there's other things either you or Miki wanted to cover with me.
208
209sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:05
210I have not seen you do this extensively, as of course this is more of a core 6 trait. However, one instance I can recall is during Valentine's, understandably being a difficult time for you; you often stated your opinion that the 'system' of Valentine's is made for couples. This is something you stood/stand by as a means to understand the basis of the negative feelings you may be feeling during that day. Thus this comes off as a 6 fix.
211
212Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:06
213I see.
214I can't seem to find additional information regarding this tritype.
215
216sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:08
217Unfortunately information on tritypes in general are far and few in between. The best we can do is combine the knowledge we do have, and concoct something with that understanding.
218
219Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:08
220That's fine.
221If this is my tritype, then I'd like to accept it. If there's anything else I may have been misinformed about, I'll let you know. As far as I know, idk what else to really ask.
222The harder part is actually accepting it tbh. It's why I keep trying to find more information to push me into being open to it.
223
224sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:10
225Understandable. 5w6 and 6w5 are one of the most common mistypes. And that's as cores. When it's a fix, and perhaps a weaker one, it can understandably be hard to grasp and accept.
226All Miki and I can really do is iterate instances we have seen you use 6 over 5 tendencies. What you take from that, is up to you.
227
228Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:11
229I see.
230Just a quick question then. With integration & disintegration, does this only happen for your core--strongest fix?
231
232sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:13
233Yes. Your fixes can shift depending on how your core integrates or disintegrates but yes, it all depends on the core.
234
235Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:14
236That actually made it more complicated now. Because I wonder if the 3 fix gets affected a lot by the 8 when it disintegrates now.
237
238sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:15
239Your core 8 and 3 fix are undeniable. That much I can say. So how your 3 shifts can always be observed and learned. Enneagram has a lot of layers but they all hold hands with one another.
240
241Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:16
242Makes sense. So how would 6 affect those then? Aside from what has already been stated.
243Also if 6 is about avoiding confrontation, I kind of saw this in myself yesterday.
244Oh, and the last thing I will say is I want Miki to have a chance to give input too.
245
246sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:26
247It would completely depend on you and your integration and disintegration. It's hard to align things like this when personality differs. We can give estimates or examples though. 
248
249Well, yes. Miki and I discuss these matters together as well so we're both in the loop as we both type enneagram.
250
251Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:26
252I see I understand. Also examples are fine.
253I may need to take some of these sites with a grain of salt. The one I am reading atm for my core type makes me sound like I am this crazy rebel... :thinking:
254Not reasonably rebellious, if that makes sense.
255
256sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:29
257Yes. Which is why we are careful with the descriptions here and ultimately, teach through our own interpretations. Because most sites.. like MBTI, generalise and stereotype.
258
259Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:30
260Yeah, I can honestly see that. This is what I was referring to btw.
261> 8w7s are less inhibited and tend to be colorful characters. They tend to have more mercurial life patterns. They are more cocky and convey a "it's a priviledge for you to engage me" vibe. They intend for reality to contour itself around the way they go about their business. They expect the red sea to be parted for them. They are a double-gluttony subtype and are more likely to have the itch to gamble and be high-rollers. They are vulnerable to taking on too much risk and overextending themselves. They are more frenzied and cathartic and have more self-destructive tendencies. They tend to be iconoclasts who delight in turning things upside down instead of solidifying them.
262
263> 8w7s believe the best defense is a good offense. Their style of dominating is to preemptively attack you to keep you off balance. They delight in "checkmating" you as their seven wing makes them focus on where your options and possibilities are so they can cut them off. They have a greater focus on tactics and strategy. They are more "I reign supreme and will summon all my powers to blow you to smithereens".
264Source: http://typewatchenneagram.blogspot.com/2011/06/typewatch-enneagram-type-descriptions.html?m=1
265
266sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:30
267Don't even have to read all of that to know the language is too colourful to be an accurate definition.
268
269Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:32
270Right, I see.
271Some fits, while some doesn't. Which is why I pointed this out now, while this is open.
272I guess for now, this seems to be the most accurate. Thanks you two for taking the time to help me. I know it was probably clear for you both, it was just confusing and a bit frustrating to... not only realize I am not making myself take the time to research this stuff, but continually have doubts about my fix. I already know once I start to doubt, there's some hidden reason I'm unaware of, and it forces me to solve the issue--which gets very irksome quickly. So I just really needed this cleared up so it could stop creeping up in the back of my mind.
273Also from what I am observing, I am not the only one, definitely, who has confusion between 5w6 & 6w5 as it appears to be a common issue.
274
275sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:39
276No need to apologise. It's good you still are willing to tackle the issue, despite the frustrations. 
277
278And yes, exactly. Very common issue. You also saw someone in Ninetails type me a 6. Despite their new knowledge, it's just such a common misunderstanding between the two.
279
280Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:39
281Yeah I did, I honestly cannot see much of 6 from you, given what I know.
282Yeah also kept worrying I am also indirectly frustrating other people with my own frustration, which is... a lot of confusion. Given I do not really care for emotional expressions from myself too much, especially negative.
283
284sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:41
285Don't worry. We have dealt with much worse. We all have frustrations. And when it comes to introspection, they are sure to arise, given the systems we use. We understand and we're here to guide.
286
287Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:41
288Appreciated.
289Yeah I don't really like to cause trouble. I just kept noticing whenever I discussed it my frustrations grew. And I worried how I was coming off to you two and others reading.
290I saw an ennea channel where things did not go well. I certainly did not want to be like that.
291
292sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:44
293Your 3 fix definitely makes itself aware at times like this. It's understandable.
294
295Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:44
296Kind of wish I didn't care. I could pretend not to care, but it internally exists.
297
298sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:44
299Yeah that situation is different. Taking 2 plus months for a session and going around in circles if far from what you're doing. You're just clarifying and open to understanding.
300Well, it's good you accept it's how you are then. Pretending stalls our growth.
301
302Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:45
303Just sucks I couldn't get this correct the first time. I am introspective, but not enough.
304Also, yeah.
305If I were to pretend, it would be because I am insecure around the people I am with, and don't want them to know, if that also makes sense.
306
307sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:46
308Oh well. Life is full of errors and having to take steps back. It's a method of learning and it works. Not your fault for not always getting things right the first time around.
309
310Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:46
311Old habits die hard I suppose.
312I also think if the same occurred for my MBTI type, I would have questioned it by now.
313What do you think of this?
314
315> When the 6 and 8 are combined in a Tritype the 6 becomes counter-phobic (cp).
316> So when you have the assertive 3 and assertive 8 combined with the counter-phobic 6 you have the most intense, single-minded, fiercely competitive, and protective,
317
318sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:47
319> If I were to pretend, it would be because I am insecure around the people I am with, and don't want them to know, if that also makes sense.
320Definitely a 6 fix thing.
321
322Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:47
323I figured that.
324The thing that occurred yesterday, made me realize today 6 is there.
325
326sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:48
327Definitely makes sense. The mixture of those 3 types, results in an intense and fiercely minded individual.. that still has their insecurities that they try to keep at bay.
328
329Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:49
330Okay then that helps definitely.
331
332This one woman was being rude to my mom. My mom was already sitting down at the cafe table, and she decided to stand right behind her and have a conversation with another person. My mom told me she did not react because she knows I do not like when she makes a scene otherwise she would not have put up with it for that long. But then my own amount of anger became a little out of control and seething, I almost yelled at her.
333That has been present since I was a kid... my mom refrains from making a scene because I don't like it. And confrontation makes me unsettled. Then after a conversation we both had, my mom is more likely to be the avoidant one, but if I am in a confrontation, I don't back down. I usually have to force myself to leave or I won't.
334That actually has happened many times when I am a moderator. When I want to full on take someone on, but know I can't.
335
336sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:53
337> Then after a conversation we both had, my mom is more likely to be the avoidant one, but if I am in a confrontation, I don't back down. I usually have to force myself to leave or I won't.
338
339This is definitely indicative of 6. A 6 will at first instance, want to avoid confrontation.. but once it occurs, they cannot help but combat it and really immerse themselves into it. It's a method of self defence.
340
341Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:53
342This has happened to me many times.
343It's one of the reasons why people actually try to troll me.
344As much as I hate to admit this.
345
346sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:55
347Yes, I know. I recall discussing this about you since we react differently.
348
349Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:55
350Yeah.
351Lastly what do you think of this?
352> They often warn others of hazards or work in fields that specialize in work that requires tracking risks and developing mind over matter. Because the 6 is cp6, they do not appear to be fearful themselves and are often in careers such as the military, law enforcement or information-security.
353>
354> The 7 in the 378 Tritype brings more autonomy, vision and a lighter touch than we will see in the 368. The focused intensity of the cp6 in the 368 Tritype has a militant type of intensity. So, the 378s by comparison are more political, and as such, are natural leaders and innovators whereas the 368s are more loyal and dutiful and as such are better enforcers of justice.
355
356sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:56
357Eh, possibly. Too minute of an example.
358Not all 368s will be in those positions.
359
360Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:56
361Yeah I looked at this more broadly.
362What I honed in on was this "they do not appear to be fearful themselves."
363
364sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:57
365That much is correct. Especially with an 8 core.
366
367Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 12:57
368"368s are more loyal and dutiful and as such are better enforcers of justice."
369I see.
370Last one I think is a bit shaky, because it has this hidden implication like they're always better at X.
371Also, I have to wonder what is meant by "dutiful."
372
373sn❄wLast Tuesday at 12:59
374Hard to say. Definitely situational.
375
376Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 13:01
377Thought so, so I will ignore that.
378
379sn❄wLast Tuesday at 13:02
380Good idea.
381
382Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Tuesday at 13:09
383Anyway thanks again.
384
385sn❄wLast Tuesday at 23:04
386No problem. @Miki ? can add her insights when she's free.
387
388Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 06:13
389Sure thing.
390
391Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 06:51
392Btw, how did you conclude that I may be sp/sx?
393And how can that get verified, really?
394
395sn❄wLast Wednesday at 07:26
396I don't remember going through IV in your session. I remember you were sp/sx when you joined so it's up to you if you believe it's accurate.
397
398Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:11
399I'd like some help with this too if that's okay.
400I think it suits me but I want to be sure.
401Yeah we only briefly discussed it during my last session.
402
403sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:15
404Sure. We can do that.
405In terms of your social life, what do you seek?
406This encompasses both online and real life.
407
408Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:20
409I notice that I try to see if I'm comfortable with people before talking to them. I do try to test the waters myself, but regardless if I look like I'm handling it well, it can be nerve wracking because I usually do not know how to let things flow and feel comfortable with it. I tend to be in my room a lot, and don't have much of a social life offline, with online I do stick to groups I have some camaraderie with and with whom I am comfortable. In that instance I am probably more outgoing because I know the people I'm interacting with, but it can flip flop where I talk to strangers. I've sometimes been approached by them outside and I'll have a conversation. It's rare for me to start that in those instances. Compared to the past, when I couldn't even talk on the phone, I'm a bit better with it now, and reading the situation. Sorry if that was kind of all over the place.
410Overall I do tend to look for that spark and connection with people, before I can truly feel comfortable socializing.
411
412sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:25
413Okay. I have noticed you also enjoy being part of groups or being aware of what's happening. That once your are comfortable, you're searching for people to connect with. Is this correct?
414
415Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:27
416Yeah that seems right.
417I don't care for being out of the loop, even if to some other people, I don't appear to care what's happening. I do still want to know what is going on.
418I really want people I have a deep connection with as friends, and even this extends to romantic partners.
419I feel happy when I'm included even if I'm not the center of attention. I don't like 100% attention on me, but I also don't mind it if say, and you've seen this, when I'm mocking or memeing in some manner.
420Guess it comes from that lonely only child bs.
421I don't care for being out of the loop
422This does change depending on the situation, but it's prevalent for the most part.
423
424sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:31
425Alright. You definitely come across more ambiverted to me, would you say this is correct?
426
427Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:31
428Lol.
429I guess so yeah.
430I'd say it fits, mostly. So that is correct.
431
432sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:34
433With this, it sounds like you could be so/sx. 
434Someone who does okay in groups but ultimately seeks comfort and connection with people. Mostly someone who wants intimacy and deep relationships.
435
436Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:34
437I knew it.
438
439sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:34
440I'll also look for information that relates it to your core type. But for now.
441?sosx
442
443Dim Sum ?BOTLast Wednesday at 08:34
444Social / Sexual:
445
446This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends. This type’s motivation is to create lasting connections with those they are interested in – the “best friend.”
447
448Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:35
449I wouldnt say I have strong social skills though... I make a lot of blunders imo.
450
451sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:35
452(not all of this information will align. It's flighty so take it with a grain of salt. The most accurate part is the first few sentences)
453
454Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:35
455:thumbsup:
456
457sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:35
458That's fine. Social skills comes more from personality.
459
460Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:36
461Wdym by first few sentences?
462difficulty sustaining those bonds.
463Honestly.... that is 100% accurate.
464I had friends in HS, but didn't keep any of those relationships outside of school and especially after we graduated.
465:/
466Same with a few of my college friends. I think they all thought I viewed the interactions superficially, when I saw it more than that. But then I had a hard time making myself keep in touch with them due to nervousness or anxiety I guess.
467flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect. 
468Besides those terms... I guess I try to do this? How else am I to learn to properly socialize?
469The political thing seemed accurate. 
470But the pop culture thing idgaf about. I do not care for trends, I start them. I'm not too into doing things because others are doing it, unless I just personally like it. Example, pop sockets. I bought one because I saw others use it and I thought I liked it myself. What made me choose is because I wanted it, not because others have it.
471
472sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:42
473Yeah most so/sx people don't relate to that. I should edit it.
474
475Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:42
476Last thing I'll say, is I've never had a real best friend. I wish I did.
477And sure np.
478I only had one real best friend, and that was in 4th grade. Then she moved. I had best friend ish neighbors when I was 7 years old. Then they also moved. Thinking back on it makes me sad in a sense.
479Question though, do so/sx people tend to attract people to them naturally? Because I think this happens to me, and it's a hunch I got just now.
480
481sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:49
482Anyone with sx in their stack tend to do this for some reason. But not really related to IV.
483
484Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:49
485Oh okay.
486It kind of makes sense for me though, I never truly care for it because like I've told you, I attract creepy people at times.
487
488sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:53
489Sure thing
490
491Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:54
492So do you truly think this fits me? Because I think it does for the most part. I actually know very little about IV.
493And why not So/Sp, or Sx/So?
494How is Sp my blindspot?
495
496sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:56
497Well we can look at those if you wish.
498I always had a feeling you were so/sx. And sp being your blindspot probably manifests in how it may be difficult for you to get things done from overthinking, thus placing your self preservation in a tight spot. But this is what I have observed.
499
500Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:57
501What indicated that to you?
502> I always had a feeling you were so/sx.
503
504sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:57
505Just how you interact with people. Very so/sx.
506
507Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:57
508Oh alright.
509I have gotten stuck in analysis paralysis before, so this seems right.
510Also sure, we can look into those.
511
512sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:58
513?sosp
514
515Dim Sum ?BOTLast Wednesday at 08:58
516Social / Self Preservation:
517
518This type is often the most comfortable in group settings, but tends to be a bit formal and awkward in one to one relations. This is the natural political type, affiliating themselves with groups or theories which best defend their social and material interests. They may lack warmth and individual identity and this could lead to problems in forming meaningful relationships outside of a shared social interest. The motivation for this type is to attain status within their chosen sphere – the “social climber.”
519
520sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:58
521?sxso
522
523Dim Sum ?BOTLast Wednesday at 08:58
524Sexual / Social:
525
526This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they’re involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying it’s purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing other’s buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It’s not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they’re able to support with heartfelt conviction. May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention.
527
528Motivation: to impact others, question assumptions, challenge convention.
529
530sn❄wLast Wednesday at 08:59
531These don't sound much like you, if you ask me.
532
533Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 08:59
534Yea I'm not a big social climber imo.
535The only thing that fit was the awkward part.
536I hate confrontation, so no I wouldnt enjoy pushing people's buttons.
537Some people have told me I'm charming but idk how often that is tbh.
538
539sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:01
540Alright
541
542Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:02
543Also why not sp/so?
544Just eliminating my options.
545
546sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:03
547?spso
548
549Dim Sum ?BOTLast Wednesday at 09:03
550Self Preservation / Social:
551
552This type is generally private and reserved, and especially serious and practical minded in their focus to gain material security and in making useful connections that support their goals. When they do form a connection, loyalty is very important to them and they will not hesitate to end a relationship on grounds of disloyalty. This type may lack a certain degree of interpersonal warmth which can give the impression of coldness or disinterest in others, even a sense of selfishness. May be drawn to groups that attract like minded individuals, as in business clubs or volunteer organizations where a shared professional culture can facilitate social bonds. They tend to live conservatively and dress in an inconspicuously appropriate fashion befitting their status in life. May have a characteristically blunt and direct style of communication that can take others some getting used to. They are particularly strong in matters of commitment and sacrifice, and enjoy being the benefactors in assisting society’s practical needs.
553
554Motivation: to attain a position of material and societal security.
555
556sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:03
557You seem to hold an importance to connections and people moreso than this stack.
558
559Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:04
560Loyalty is very important.
561But idk if I'd readily cut out someone on an act of disloyalty, but that really depends.
562
563sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:04
564I see
565
566Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:05
567I've had someone betray my loyalty before, at least 2 times. With the latter half, I am still friends with them. Breached my privacy to a person I was really having an issue with.
568Former half, that friendship ended.
569
570sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:05
571Ah.
572
573Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:05
574But I was very young, like 18.
575
576sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:06
577I see
578
579Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:06
580But yea I guess this does not fit then, even if some of it I can relate to. Idk if I really appear cold to others, unless I do not know them or they've slighted me badly.
581
582sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:08
583Yes. Like enneagram, we can relate to things in different stacks, but you want to find what matches most.
584
585Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:08
586Then I can be a real ass apparently.
587Yeah exactly I agree
588I did wonder why I thought I was sp/sx and wondered if it really was accurate for me
589
590sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:09
591Well, it was during the time you also thought you were INTJ and 5w6 core. So it may have all fit together and made sense at the time
592
593Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:14
594Ah I see.
595Yeah that makes sense.
596Interesting how things can get really mixed up, if one is mistyped in at least one system.
597
598sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:16
599Yes, exactly.
600
601Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:20
602But yeah I think this fits. I'd also like to hear Miki's opinions on this whenever she is available, but this truly helped me.
603This is a bit embarrassing to ask, but have you ever typed anyone for Love languages before?
604
605sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:25
606Not really but I wouldn't imagine it being difficult.
607
608Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:27
609I wonder if I am quality time, I'd like to think this is true.
610I wonder if this somewhat connects to variants, but I don't think so.
611
612sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:28
613No, I don't think they do. I'd imagine they're something completely different.
614
615Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:30
616Thought so.
617Uhh honestly, I do not think I am physical touch whatsoever, which caused "problems" with my last real relationship. Same with words of affirmation. I had a discussion about that with some people in the enneagram server.
618Problems in quotes, because it was more of my partner having an issue with it rather than me.
619
620sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:33
621I see
622
623Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:33
624This is what I tend to think I am, but maybe I will keep it out of here since it's enneagram and not love languages. Quality time + Acts of Services. Latter thing, I'd want from my partner.
625Like, I really need that, plus the first thing.
626
627sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:34
628Ah, yes.
629
630Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:35
631But other than that, I think I am settled finally with the enneagram stuff. I kept hitting speed bumps really, when it came to the possibility of 5 vs. 6 being in my tritype. I just really wish there was more information on this.
632
633sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:35
634Hm, you have the idea now. Your best information will now be how you see it in yourself and your actions.
635
636Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:36
637Understood.
638
639sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:37
640Found something for you. 
641
642> This subtype of Eight comes across a little softer then the sexual first subtypes. The social instinct combines with the sexual to make a subtype that is very aware of interpersonal dynamics. Like the social/self-pres Eight, they are less concerned with group dynamics. The social/sexual is more talkative, and if the Seven wing is dominant, may even be mistaken for a Seven. They can be very charismatic also, using humor to charm people. On the down side, they can use their interpersonal awareness to con people.
643>
644> This subtype, largely because the self-preservational instinct is last, may be the least entrepreneurial of the instinctual subtypes of type Eight. The lust for life manifests through connection to others. On the high side, their awareness of the social dynamic makes them very charismatic. On the down side, it can make them overly aware of issues involving control. They are especially sensitive to any hint that others may be trying to control them, but they may misuse power themselves.
645
646Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:37
647That is going to take time, and when I say that, I think this may be hard, because I do not want to have the wrong perception of myself if this is not true outwardly speaking and in the eyes of other people. I have days where I think 100% I am the only one who really knows myself and then I will have some doubts on different days.
648Oh
649reading it.
650> very aware of interpersonal dynamics.
651?
652
653sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:38
654Your connections with others.
655
656Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:39
657> On the down side, it can make them overly aware of issues involving control. They are especially sensitive to any hint that  others may be trying to control them, but they may misuse power themselves.
658This sounds like it exacerbates the 8, but I am a little confused as to how the subtype itself makes 8 softer,
659> The social/sexual is more talkative, and if the Seven wing is dominant, may even be mistaken for a Seven. They can be very > charismatic also, using humor to charm people. On the down side, they can use their interpersonal awareness to con people.
660Have you seen this from me? Is w7 dominant in me, and if so, how?
661
662sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:40
663Well 8 has the stereotype of being brash and crude. The social and sexual instincts helps decrease this.
664
665Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:40
666Seems right, oof.
667
668sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:40
669You can definitely be talkative. I wouldn't say enough to be a 7 however
670
671Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:41
672If I remember vaguely what 7 is, it's still hard to see in myself besides what was already explained.
673If I have used interpersonal awareness to "con people," Idk if I have been aware of me doing that.
674
675sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:42
676Having a 7 wing is different from being a 7. It influences your 8. That's how a wing works.
677
678Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:43
679But that does help put things in perspective, the descriptor.
680oh okay.
681
682sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:43
683I couldn't say, in regards to that. Again, if not everything matches, that's the nature of these systems.
684
685Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:43
686True.
687Forgot what site I was looking at, but is this tritype more common for my MBTI type than 358?
688because apparently ENTJ can be any of these tritypes, hah. I looked at that correlation with a grain of salt though.
689
690sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:44
691I don't consider those things, sorry. If it works, it works.
692
693Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:44
694No problem.
695
696sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:45
697But I don't see how it wouldn't be a tritype known to ENTJs.
698
699Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:45
700Yeah makes sense, when I was viewing that, I didn't think it would be good to take that information seriously.
701Because how can you possibly be sure the people are not mistyped in both systems?
702
703sn❄wLast Wednesday at 09:48
704Yes.
705
706Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 09:49
707Are there any other sources I can look at for 8-so/sx subtype?
708Just for curiosity's sake.
709Or any commands here in this server I can look at.
710Okay this is my first time really seeing this, and it's all true.
711[8w7 personalities tend to:
712- Advocate for the rights of others
713- Think practically and creatively
714- Be afraid of losing their autonomy
715- Dream big and be idealistic
716- Struggle to be emotionally honest or vulnerable]
717
718sn❄wLast Wednesday at 10:07
719I've been looking for stuff as well but could only find what I provided. Most of the other stuff are just discussions and comments.
720And yes.
721
722Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 10:08
723No problem
724I kind of dislike these forums.
725That I keep finding, because it just becomes a matter of opinion & interpretation.
726
727sn❄wLast Wednesday at 10:13
728It does.
729
730Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 12:49
731> This type has very strong one to one social skills
732It seems from earlier I misread. I do have better 1-on-1 social skills, so this is true. Does not change any awkward or nervousness I may feel, though.
733
734sn❄wLast Wednesday at 12:54
735Makes sense.
736
737Miki ?Last Wednesday at 15:44
738Apologies for the inactivity, I've been out and about for the past few days. I've read through the previous messages, and I agree with what Snow has said. Is there anything in particular you wanted my insights on?
739
740Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Last Wednesday at 15:45
741No worries!
742Just wanted to see what your view overall is on the session. Do you agree with 6w5 being in my tritype, as well as so/sx? I'd like to hear what your thoughts are and if you can guide me further.
743Nothing specific really.
744
745Miki ?Last Wednesday at 23:41
746I do agree with 6w5 being in your tritype. I'm not sure if I can add much more to what Snow said or mention anything new that wasn't already said before, but I will try. I think how it shows up, besides looking for resources to back up your beliefs, is the awareness of systems and social situations (this can also be characteristic [though not necessarily inherent] of so). Or, if they are not systems, it may be the desire or tendency to systematize to help you understand, to help you find some sort of footing. This is a way to interpret the statement of seeking dogma or systems for safety; almost as a safety net.
747
748Another way a 6 fix can manifest is being wary of potential dangers. A way this can show in the server is when an individual joins and you have a not so good feeling about them, if you will, and exhibit wary behaviour. This is another, albeit stereotypical, trait of 6s - their desire for security can lead to being aware of dangers such as these, and occasionally acting on them, though as Snow said, 6s can prefer to avoid confrontation but are little inclined to back down once challenged. On a more micro, personal level, it can also manifest in knowing who is with you, and who is against you - you don't need to act upon these notions, but generally a 6 fix may contribute in your being aware of such things.
749
750(Just to add to the 6 insights; having a 6w7 fix myself, it definitely adds a degree of optimism; in my case, I see it most in trying to reframe the negative [tendency of 7], always attempting to look at the bright side and perhaps neglecting the bigger, darker picture, and even in "ignoring" the 6 desire sometimes [hint as to why I'm 6w7 and not 7w6; it's always there, and ultimately I will choose the safest option, the one confirmed by things I believe in])
751
752Miki ?Last Wednesday at 23:52
753I didn't give much thought to your IV prior to your bringing it up to be honest, so I had to read through, but I think it makes sense as well. As for how it manifests in you, I think everything important was said. You like to be included, you like to know what's going on and be part of a group, but the group can also, maybe even become, intentionally or not, a means to seek deeper connections.
754
755I agree with Snow that so/sx is evident in your communication style. For example, on the server, (I will only comment on how it appears, as I cannot say beyond what I notice), you are one of the people who leaves comments and reacts to posts and messages first. You are aware of what is happening and you appear to often be in the loop; often the first to join voice chats, to answer questions, to assist anyone in bot commands. But, while you do well in group discussions, you seem to thrive (and seek) deeper connections with people you get along with, find things in common with, whatever it may be that really helps build that foundation.
756
757As for your SP blind spot, I can imagine it may be hard to spot as a lot of descriptions will deal with physical survival needs. But it can also just be something that you put on the back burner, if you will. Not that you neglect your physical health or anything like that - but that it's not something you consciously seek. For example, Luft has so as a blind spot, and has excellent social skills, is aware of group mentality, etc. - but it's just not something that she likes to think of consciously, and it's something she can forget about (while still acting like a social human being, of course, haha). And as Snow said, perhaps difficulty in getting things done, or even that those fundamental "needs" feel like a chore - maybe you have better, more pressing things to do than SP needs.
758
759Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 06:24
760Hmm I see.
761I keep finding weird information on the variants...... now apparently the dominant aspect is the one you're most terrible at?
762This one site stated that I would be unkempt and other silliness, I had to ignore it because it was so ridiculous.
763
764Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 06:41
765For so/sx, while for the most part I agree with it, it makes me seem like I am this hugely outgoing person, which I am struggling honestly, to agree with. I do not view myself that way, despite what was stated.
766Okay I think I know why I may have had an issue.... because the site was talking about the variants singularly, plus I guess behaviors?
767Just to show what I am talking about...
768> Questions
769• SP: How am I? (I can’t tell what I need to be safe and sound)
770• SO: Who am I? (you tell me; I’m defined by my relation to you and them, my place in the hierarchy)
771• SX: What’s going on? (all over the place; has to tune in on the lookout for a mate)
772
773Idealized self-image
774• SP: I have psychic powers and I am invulnerable. My life is without a beginning or an end; I can see my past lives and my afterlife. I can predict the future and need not fear the unexpected.
775• SO: I am considerate, friendly, generous and self-sacrificing. I possess greatness which commands admiration and respect, and my position in life reflects my exceptional qualities.
776• SX: I have the power to attract whomever I choose and I know what passion means. I am in tune with the world around, sense its vibrations, and am ready to respond when my mate calls.
777
778Central delusion
779• SP: There must be a way to beat death (i.e. take lots of vitamin C, jog every day, rely on medical science, healing arts, psychic powers)
780• SO: I can get from the outside what I’m lacking inside (togetherness, self-approval, acceptance, love)
781• SX: Through union with the One I can transcend myself, achieve wholeness (oneness with myself; I’m the half of a pair)
782
783Dilemma
784• SP: To be or not to be; how to be
785• SO: To relate or not to relate; how to relate
786• SX: To be intimate or not to be intimate; how to be intimate
787————————————————————————————
788Type 8
789• SP: Satisfactory survival (not just any kind of survival; pushing, grabbing, ordering, controlling)
790• SO: Friends/enemies (world perceived in black and white; champion of the people, largesse)
791• SX: Possession/surrender (need for total domination or willingness to give up all control)
792
793Miki ?Yesterday at 07:10
794`I keep finding weird information on the variants...... now apparently the dominant aspect is the one you're most terrible at?
795I've seen a few sources phrase it this way, and it's such a misleading way to word things. You're "terrible" at it because you put more of your energy, your focus into it. It takes more from you than does the other variants. But that certainly is not the same thing as being bad at it.` Weird information indeed.
796So-firsts will often be described as such. They conflate it with social skills and sometimes introversion/extraversion with IV, when really they have nothing to do with enneagram.
797I've never seen that source before, but I didn't realize sp was so mystical and psychic, not to mention quoting Hamlet, hahaha. Sp is the most common instinct, because it has to do with survival. I would say it is the least mystical, and instead perhaps the most physical of the variants.
798
799They touch on aspects of SO and SX that aren't far off (SX looking for oneness, SO getting "togetherness" from the outside), but they give them some mystical qualities of their own, and make SO sound rather conceited.
800
801Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 07:16
802Yeah I guess it is ridiculous, because I read that for SP too. I realized it is a potentially sketchy source given how the site even blablablah'd about miscellaneous information.
803Here is the link
804http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/subtypes.html
805Right, and while I regarded the source as potentially not credible, I had to wonder why it was saying that. Which bits of information was true, and what wasn't.
806Snow was right about the ambiversion... because some days I feel extremely asocial and will avoid everyone. If enneagram is not talking about the old definitions of introversion/extroversion, what is it referring to?
807
808Miki ?Yesterday at 07:19
809> Demonstrations, causes:
810• SP: Against nuclear power plants, against abortion, don’t feed hormones to cows, don’t use pesticides
811Whoa, my goodness. These are not SP, they're entirely dependent on the individual.
812
813Yes, just like MBTI, Enneagram sources are fraught with misinformation. Makes it even harder to learn about them and type oneself or others accurately, until all the information is sifted and analyzed as to which are right, which make sense, vs which are just...too much.
814
815Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 07:20
816Yeaaaaaaaaah when I saw that I was thinking... *way to insert political views.* :rolling_eyes:
817If I'm silent btw, getting ready for work.
818
819Miki ?Yesterday at 07:24
820> Snow was right about the ambiversion... because some days I feel extremely asocial and will avoid everyone. If enneagram is not talking about the old definitions of introversion/extroversion, what is it referring to?
821So you know how with MBTI, introversion means you are drawing information from the inside, and extroversion means drawing information from the outside, right? (Pardon the oversimplication, but you know what I mean haha.) I would actually say enneagram is somewhat similar.
822Introverted, "withdrawn" types in enneagram don't necessarily talk about their social energies (though they can correlate) but rather tendencies to pull into oneself; to, when faced with their fears, to sometimes shirk and retreat (5, also 9); to develop one's self image from the inside (4). Has nothing to do with shyness, with being quiet, with being "closed off".
823Extraverted, "social" types in enneagram often indicates being more in tune with surroundings; seeking external sources or events to confirm or support internal beliefs or images (I am speaking particularly about 2, 3, 6), using the environment or people to one's needs (perhaps suited more for 7, 8), shaping it to be what they want it to be (perhaps 1).
824No worries, I have to get ready for my day to start as well.
825
826Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 07:59
827Okay that makes a lot of sense.
828Also, yeah, I know what you mean.
829
830sn❄wYesterday at 09:06
831I quite agree with everything Miki has said here. I think she added some valuable insight I may have missed.
832
833Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 09:10
834Yes, I agree. It's been helpful.
835
836Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 09:40
837Anyway I think this covered everything I wanted to know. I just really do wish there was more information I could read up on.
838
839sn❄wYesterday at 09:43
840There is only so much information you can scrounge up on systems like this. Especially pseudoscience. The best we can do is gather it and see which applies best.
841
842Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 09:43
843Yeah, I see.
844Last miscellaneous, and unrelated thing, but is it possible that due to my IV this is why I do not appear reserved -- in interactions?
845Or is that just more of a personality thing
846
847sn❄wYesterday at 09:46
848Probably a mix of both. And perhaps because in the general sense, you don't come off as reserved.
849Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 09:47
850Hm.
851
852Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 10:03
853I see. If it's not too much trouble, since this did end up becoming a new typing session, I was wondering if I could request pastebin for future reference, should I have questions later on. Also some final questions, but what are some characteristics that strongly show up due to my enneagram conclusion?
854
855Core: 8w7
856Tritype: 836
857Fixes: 8w7, 3w4, 6w5
858IV: so/sx
859sn❄wYesterday at 10:04
860Sure. We will get a pastebin done. 
861
862You mean your core? Or tritype?
863
864Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 10:06
865Hmm everything. I am pretty up to speed with my core by now.
866So I guess just tritype.
867Basically like a summary.
868
869Miki ?Yesterday at 11:03
870For the characteristics that strongly show up, did you want a description of your enneagram in general or how they show up in you?
871
872Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 11:09
873Both if that's okay.
874
875Miki ?Yesterday at 11:20
876Sure, I'll do my best to answer the more general enneagram (I'm assuming this includes core, tritype, IV; let me know if I'm mistaken) and of course how I see them manifest in you. I'll get on that when I've finished what I'm reviewing!
877
878Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 11:20
879Sure thing. :thumbsup:
880
881sn❄wYesterday at 15:16
882I'll do how they show up in you then. 
883
884Core 8w7. 
885You definitely don't like to be commanded or controlled in any way. You have a strong streak of independence and will challenge anyone who tries to take that away from you. You're outspoken and opinionated; making sure to voice your thoughts about things even if they rock the boat. You also dislike vulnerability and try to hide away the things that may cause this to appear. This links well with your heart fix. 
886
887Heart fix: 3w4
888Your driven and yearn for success. Sometimes, this is measured by how people view you. You can be keenly away of how you present to others and dislike being seen as wrong or misinformed. You want to be seen as how you perceive yourself as well and will step back if this isn't being accomplished. 
889
890Head fix: 6w5
891You're aware of your surroundings, and what information comes to you. You need that information to be concise and you will analyse it until you are satisfied.  You're quite aware of social construct as well, and are quick to know what is happening and if comfortable, be included. Also if reeled in, you can get stuck in confrontation, no longer able to back away. 
892
893IV so/sx
894You dislike being seen as the villain. You know this isn't your true intention. You want people to understand where you're coming from and that you have no ill intentions. You can go from group to group in search of those you truly click with. You are familiar with social constructs but most of it is just used to find intimacy and closeness with others.
895
896Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:20
897I think you meant 8w7?
898But let me get a chance to read this :thumbsup:
899
900sn❄wYesterday at 15:20
901Ah yes.
902
903Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:21
904I see! That's accurate. Thank you!
905
906sn❄wYesterday at 15:22
907No problem.
908
909Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:24
910If it helps I'm aware of where I stand with work colleagues too
911
912sn❄wYesterday at 15:27
913Excellent
914
915Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:35
916I don't usually like to be, but I'm aware of it. I want to not care what they think, but I notice, like I've stated with online interactions, if I don't it probably will impact what I want from my employment. I definitely don't play social games, I hate that.
917And if I have to, I find it extremely distasteful.
918
919sn❄wYesterday at 15:37
920I see
921
922Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:37
923I think there is a real strength in not caring.
924The 8w7 explains for a long time too, why many years ago I kept trying to figure out how to become self employed.
925
926sn❄wYesterday at 15:45
927Definitely
928
929Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:45
930Btw what do you mean for 3w4, when you say step back?
931Saw a few typos but did not want to be a nitpick. :sweat_smile:
932
933sn❄wYesterday at 15:47
934If the perception of yourself isn't shared with everyone else, you may step back to evaluate.
935
936Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:47
937Ah I see. Understood.
938So that is how the w4 shows up. I never gave it that much thought.
939
940sn❄wYesterday at 15:48
941Pretty much.
942
943Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:49
944I think I have full understanding by this point. :thumbsup:
945I'm just curious what Miki has to share. But yeah I'm glad I didn't ignore this.
946This has all been pretty insightful.
947
948sn❄wYesterday at 15:51
949That's good then, very good.
950
951Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 15:55
952:sparkles:
953
954Miki ?Yesterday at 19:12
955Sorry for the delay! I'll start with each type and the IV in general, and then I'll add how I see them manifest in you, though for the latter I'll try to mention things in addition to what Snow has said.
956
957Miki ?Yesterday at 19:24
958Core: 8w7
959Having an 8w7 core would make the individual incredibly resistant to control being imposed upon them, more so than the 8w9, whose 9 wing will make them more laidback. Because 7 is an action-oriented type, having it as a wing could further bolster the independence and desire for autonomy of the 8. This type is known to be the most blunt, the most confident, and thus consistent in how they present themselves (by this, they are comfortable enough in their own skin that they likely do not tailor themselves to others). They are more likely to act on their first impression, gut instincts about other people and are quite reactive. They may display their desire for control and leadership more openly than the other subtypes, as they are generally very forthcoming with their feelings and opinions. When unhealthy, they can be aggressive, belligerent, and lash out.
960
961How I see this in you: You march to the beat of your own drum. You don't appear to like the idea of other institutions or people having power over you, and you don't like to rely on others (which resulted in the initial resistance of 6). You have always been honest with how you feel about things, and you are not one to beat around the bush. If you don't like something, and you don't like how people treat you, you say so. And as Snow said, you try not to show your vulnerability as much as you can, and I perceive this is what may have influenced you to think you had 5 in your tritype before (when stressed, [aka when their vulnerabilities are exposed, for the 8], they will show the traits of a 5 and withdraw, take less action in the external world, ruminate).
962
963Miki ?Yesterday at 19:46
964Heart fix: 3w4
965Having this in the tritype will make one very aware of the image they present to others, due to 3, and desire to control it. They know what image they want to project to others, and that will often be one of success as determined by one's environment. Because of this, they will want to focus on their work (help uphold this image) and seek recognition, consciously or not, for their achievements. However, with the 4 as a wing, this will bring a perhaps conflicting desire to be authentic: is this mirror really reflecting me?  There may thus be disparity between the self-image and the image that is projected to others. The 4 wing will bring more introversion and introspection, drawing more of their idealized self-image from within rather than adapting it mostly from the environment (which is more 3w2). The 4 wing will also incite (again, perhaps conflicting with the externally-driven 3) desire to stand out, to not conform in some way, to be different and unique.
966
967How I see this in you: You clearly identify as being hardworking, analytical, problem-solving; many things that are work-oriented. You know how you want to present yourself to others, and react to control this. With your 8w7 fix, there is more nonconformity, though it may not be very explicitly stated. There is a subtle way with which you set yourself apart, maybe aesthetically: when it came to some people having used the same avatar creator for their profile pictures, you voiced initially wanting to do the same (3 + SO instinct) but not doing so in order to "rebel", or something along those lines (w4). The disparity between self- and projected image that 3w4 has may lie in, if I am understanding correctly, your query about being reserved. You may view yourself as reserved, but in reality you may not be so to others. (An example of this for myself is many people think I'm introverted, when I view myself very much an extravert.)
968(Apologies for the long text above. I had quite a bit to say since it is my core as well, haha.)
969
970Miki ?Yesterday at 20:05
971Head fix: 6w5
972As a fix, the 6 with 5 wing can manifests as an analytic approach, which seeks opinions and information from all sides to consider. This may also bring a naturally suspicious disposition, being wary of potential threats or dangers. They may be observers  of their environment (w5), testing the waters (6) in order to predict how others will react, and they will be loyal to those whom they identify with. They will want to hold onto, or find, whatever it is that can give them support and understanding of the world around them.
973
974How I see it in you: (since I just described this last night, I will copy + paste + adapt my answer here for easier reading)
975How it shows up in you is your awareness of systems and social situations, which goes nicely with SO. Systems like typology, for instance, regardless of its nature as a pseudoscience, may be systematized to an extent and may help you understand and find some sort of footing in the world. You very easily reference sources and systems, and use them to help guide and support you, to affirm or reframe your beliefs.
976You show wariness to potential dangers; for example, in the server when an individual joins and you have a not so good feeling about them, you react and warn other mods right away. In this way, you are aware of who is with you and who is against you, who supports you vs who destabilizes that. You prefer to avoid confrontation and set your boundaries, but are little inclined to back down once challenged.
977
978Miki ?Yesterday at 20:15
979IV: so/sx
980With the social variant first, this manifests in a natural awareness of group settings; whom do I get along with, what is the mood like, what are the dynamics within the group. But once this is all determined, perhaps subconsciously, the secondary sx instinct will desire to seek an individual with whom to make a deeper connection: who among the people I get along with understands me the most? Because of this, ultimately, the individual will do better in one-to-one settings, and may have good but less deep relationships with those who do not stimulate their sx instinct.
981
982How I see it in you: (Again, since I just described it last night, I will copy + paste it here)
983You like to be included, you like to know what's going on and be part of a group, but the group can also, maybe even become, intentionally or not, a means to seek deeper connections. This especially shows in how you communicate. For example, on the server, you often leave comments and reacts to posts and messages first. You are aware of what is happening and you appear to often be in the loop; often the first to join voice chats, to answer questions, to assist anyone in bot commands. But, while you do well in group discussions, you seem to thrive (and seek) deeper connections with people you get along with, find things in common with, whatever it may be that really helps build that foundation.
984
985Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 21:28
986Oh goodness I fell asleep, let me have a look here. Also no worries~
987
988Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 21:55
989This is very accurate, both of you—thank you. :sparkles: You really went all out.
990Also, don't worry about the length. That was actually what I was looking for & interested in.
991As for the hardworking aspect, this is what I have been told to be basically my whole life.... it may as well be a family motto. Myself, my mother, and my grandmother... we all know how to make our place in life. We have been told all 3 of us know how to make money, with my mom frequently saying I'd manage the money & directives. My old employer has mentioned I am very determined and hardworking, so it's not just perception I hope. :sweat_smile: Nevertheless the above is true... I guess it is also correct I did have resistance to 6. Because:
992
9931.) I honestly was not aware of the possibility of having this as a fix, as I was remembering the whole time my old session, but due to not understanding very well, questioning it.
9942.) After I did read about it, no idea if your weakest fix is hardest to accept for most people, I really did have a hard time with it because it makes me look even more in the spotlight, if that makes sense?? Just imagine someone having a panic attack due to stage fright in the middle of a play, and that is basically almost what I felt except not that exaggerated.
995——————
996As for the avatars, it's true, but I also became too lazy to find the generator and make one myself plus... I realized I'd be doing a major face reveal even if I've kind of done so already with posting my own art, which I did not want so...I kept the trademark. :upside_down: People tend to know me with the FMA pfp, name and the like. So why change it I guess? :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile:
997why did this take so long to write, to go into the next day. the use of emojis oof.
998Okay, is the sx aspect very obvious in me? Because it sounds like it is. And with the IV, does this apply to all my fixes? I ask because I noticed you said "3 + SO instinct"....which is true, and now I wondered if the SO/SX applied to all my fixes: 8w7 SO, 3w4 SO, & 6w5 SO.
999
1000Miki ?Yesterday at 22:33
1001You're right! - though with the nature of enneagram, fixes and core types can be hard to accept. They can really make you feel as if you're in the spotlight, as you said, and as if you are shone in the spotlight with all your secrets, your fears, things that you don't want exposed plus showing you that maybe your perception of yourself isn't necessarily what other people see. (I had this hit me hard, too, when I first learned about it. I can also imagine it's even more like that with you since your core is 8!) And all that adds to the grueling process of enneagram typing haha. I think you mentioned you saw a recent session about someone struggling with 6w5 vs 5w6? I'm assuming it was Unmentionable's, and you saw just how hard it was for him to reconcile the differences in his words and his actions.
1002
1003Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 22:34
1004It was.
1005And a while ago, I remember Snow told me it was more personal, an enneagram session, but I did not know just how personal it was. I remember having to be convinced that I was core 8, and not 5, which is why I asked an endless amount of questions & provided evidence despite becoming self-conscious about this.
1006
1007Miki ?Yesterday at 22:39
1008Haha, that explanation for the avatars also fits well with 3w4. It's your trademark (w4), as you said, and people recognize you by the FMA theme of your profile (3).
1009
1010As for the SX instinct, to me, yes it is obvious, but I think I am only able to describe it to this extent because of how long you have been in the server and how often I see you interact with others. Additionally, though, as was mentioned before, SX has a bit of a trademark vibe of its own that is quite hard to describe. I might be aware of it as an SX-blind (SX is very difficult for me) and so it is a bit hard for me to not notice, sometimes. (Not that I attend to my SX needs as it is my blind spot, but just that I think I pick it up in other people.) Perhaps Snow might be able to answer that question more thoroughly.
1011
1012With IV, it's not necessarily separated in such a way; it applies to a person more wholly than that it is distributed to each type within a tritype. But, I don't theoretically see anything wrong with seeing how so/sx could show in the fixes. I just don't know how it would apply, and I wouldn't think to apply it to any type besides the core for typing purposes.
1013
1014Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 22:41
1015Yeah, was just curious if it worked this way or not.
1016So if I am SP blind, I can see it in other people, but not tend to this myself?
1017
1018Miki ?Yesterday at 22:46
1019Hmm... perhaps, but I don't know if that would necessarily be the case for SP blind. As was said before, SX has a certain pull to them, so I think because this affects other people within the environment, it can be more easily detected...in theory. I am SP-first (in a nutshell, I tend to my comfort and survival first), so if I feel that there is a lot of SX around, it can feel a bit smothering and almost... too personal, as they typically seek very deep, intimate connections --> leading to my awareness of it so I may avoid the potential discomfort. Though, this is a more personal example, not necessarily related to IV. But I have read some descriptors of sp/so that describe something similar when faced with lots of SX.
1020
1021Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Yesterday at 22:47
1022That makes sense, understood.
1023Idk if I have anymore questions, everything has been covered quite nicely. I appreciate this.
1024(going to head out, goodnight—will be able to reply better in the morning)
1025
1026Miki ?Yesterday at 22:54
1027We're happy to help~
1028Let me know when you would like me to create a pastebin.
1029And have a good night as well.
1030
1031Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 05:40
1032Sure, you guys can create one whenever you can. Thank you. :thumbsup:
1033Perhaps Snow might be able to answer that question more thoroughly.
1034Yes, and then this can be concluded.
1035
1036Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 09:12
1037Big stretch question, and probably nothing to do with Enneagram... but can IVs explain how we act in relationships or what we want from them?
1038
1039Miki ?Today at 10:35
1040They can actually touch on both of those, yes. Not necessarily explain them, but they can show how we approach them, for example. You approach forming relationships much more differently than myself (sp/so) for example, and Snow (sp/sx).
1041
1042Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 11:51
1043I see. That does make sense, since it touches on the interpersonal realm..
1044
1045sn❄wToday at 12:01
1046Your status right now for instance, is a good example of your so instinct, linking to sx in the desire to find that connection.
1047
1048Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 12:02
1049Ah yeah. True.
1050That is kind of why I asked, actually.
1051Yeah, I wasn't doing too hot, again.
1052Anyway that makes sense. Thanks.
1053Would security, for 6w5, apply in this sense, like a relationship
1054So feeling emotionally secure being open to someone else
1055I also wonder if sx influence can make someone more prone to being intense as a person.
1056
1057sn❄wToday at 12:09
1058Hm, not that I know. 6 does have the phobic nature of being insecure but if this translates to emotional security in a relationship.
1059
1060Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 12:10
1061Makes sense
1062
1063sn❄wToday at 12:10
1064I'd say intensity completely depends on the person. Try not to find all answers in typology. I know it's hard to avoid but some things will be hazy and won't apply.
1065
1066Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 12:11
1067Yeah of course, was just curious if it played a role. I definitely know typology can't answer everything.
1068I think it's a personality trait if anything.
1069Also it makes sense what has been said, sx secondary is a bit obvious to me, just wondered if others could also see that clearly.
1070I wouldn't have without help, guessed I was an SO dominant, and a while ago that would've been harder to convince me of.
1071
1072sn❄wToday at 12:14
1073You've definitely become more receptive of the things we have noted about you.
1074
1075Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 12:16
1076I've tried to be. Just because I strongly believe something, doesn't mean it's correct or objective. I wouldn't want to trust my emotions alone, I'd feel that is way too subjective and biased.
1077If I do strongly believe something, I want enough facts to make sure it's correct first. At least then, I'd have a reason for such strong emotion, y'know?
1078It's silly how some people strongly cling to something, even with the possibility of being wrong. Not everything others say is incorrect or coming from a place of little understanding... and I bet this is 6w5 talking, hah.
1079
1080Bloȿȿom Elric⨳Today at 15:43
1081Any time you two are ready, feel free to make this a pastebin.