2RrEtuzM

1<BrowserLurker> ...
2<BrowserLurker> well
3<BrowserLurker> That one isnt so bad
4<BrowserLurker> the one where a guy fucked up a mauser 98 with MLP shit hurt my soul though
5<IH> hey BrowserLurker https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/355846166992257025/397486630069600266/1258351024547.jpg
6<Ogre> how did they get the chrome to stick?!
7<IH> That MLP K98 was supposedly a Mitchell's Mauser so no huge loss
8<IH> The chrome was probably easier to do than the paint lol
9<BrowserLurker> IH:  meh its a mosin
10<BrowserLurker> It still hurt to look at.
11<BrowserLurker> some anon bought it and cleaned it up though last I checked
12<@RotoSequence> https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2012/8/7/68751.jpg This one hurt /k/'s soul
13<@RotoSequence> Even though /mlk/ is a thing
14»» BrowserLurker hisses
15<BrowserLurker> RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
16»» Kralizec screeches
17<@RotoSequence> https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2016/10/19/1276803.jpeg
18»» @Blackknight64 sighs and goes on a rampage.
19<@RotoSequence> https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2013/12/17/499719.gif
20<BrowserLurker> RotoSequence: S T O P
21<BrowserLurker> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5xTReubUro
22<+gonzobot> (BrowserLurker) JonTron - Stop - length 7s - 3,580 likes, 34 dislikes (99.1%) - 237,491 views - Pantsmode on 2014.03.02
23<@Blackknight64> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/CVN16OGs/irccloudcapture446694273.jpg
24»» Kralizec sighs
25»» Kralizec nucleates a false vacuum, just to be sure
26<@RotoSequence> But BrowserLurker
27<@RotoSequence> THE RIDE NEVER ENDS
28<BrowserLurker> It does when I eat a tidepod
29<@RotoSequence> https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2018/1/23/1639234.png NOT EVEN THEN
30<Ogre> watching pre-Ziva NCIS.
31<Ogre> also...
32<BrowserLurker> ...
33<Ogre> neh, nevermind.
34<@RotoSequence> I'm sorry, I was tempted
35<BrowserLurker> you know what RotoSequence how about I just go blow my brains out
36<@RotoSequence> That seems hasty
37<@RotoSequence> And I could find pony of that too but at this point it's not fun
38<@RotoSequence> I've run out of novelty factor
39<Jalapenyo> ... why does HaplessOperator have a chaos space marine plushie? 
40<BrowserLurker> Jalapenyo: I want one
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56<%HaplessOperator> Jalapenyo: It's Shovel Knight 
57<CreatureCoby> Jalapenyo: shovel knight boy
58<CreatureCoby> space marines have a slits in their helmet
59<CreatureCoby> and a bolter
60<CreatureCoby> and a chainsword
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65<@Patriarchy> [RotoSequence] [Bronyism Intensifies]
66»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o RotoSequence)
67<@RotoSequence> .tell Blackknight64 https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2014/1/11/521400.gif
68»» @Blackknight64 lights RotoSequence on fire
69<@RotoSequence> .tell Blackknight64 https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2017/1/17/1341537.jpeg
70<@Blackknight64> lol
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82<+gonzobot> ​ [sad party horn noise]
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85<katiedid> https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/7tx7me/redditor_notes_that_mccabe_is_forced_out_of_the/
86<+gonzobot> (katiedid) Redditor notes that McCabe is forced out of the FBI and Republicans... : bestof - 3,144 comments, 41,130 points - InternetWeakGuy, 6h ago
87<katiedid> The butthurt has begun
88<Tox> >trump is a sociopath, wah
89<Tox> prove it.
90<@RotoSequence> I don't think randoms on the internet really know what Sociopathy is but they know its bad and its an easy label to use
91<@RotoSequence> They're probably looking at his narcisim
92<@RotoSequence> And spitefulness
93»» Disconnected (No such device or address).
94»» Now talking on ##HFYpolitics
95»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics is: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<BREAKING NEWS  ++ NUNES MEMO ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
96»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics set by ctwelve!sid54852@HFY/the.lore.seeker at Mon Jan 29 19:42:18 2018
97<@Patriarchy> [GamingWolfie] I am the Archwolf; High Prophet to the Potato. The Bringer of the Starchy Word, the Purveyor of Order. Kneel before me: http://i.imgur.com/K4OVGW2.png
98»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o GamingWolfie)
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102<@ctwelve> So apparently the DNC chair resigned yesterday, too
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106<@ctwelve> CEO rather
107<Tox> Yeah
108<Tox> interesting times.
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114<Jalapenyo> waiting for Justice Kennedy to finally retire like 
115<Jalapenyo> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LMpoBGNqatU/TNzs_UUCafI/AAAAAAAAAds/hULZ2bb03NU/s1600/skeleton%2B1.jpg
116<Jalapenyo> oh by the by
117<Jalapenyo> .tell ShabbatLurker http://www.israelhayom.com/2018/01/24/half-of-european-jews-hide-their-religion-survey-shows/
118<Jalapenyo> holy shit ShabbatLurker|Drank is still Drank?
119<Jalapenyo> it's Tuesday
120<Jalapenyo> good lord
121<Jalapenyo> must've been a hell of a shabbos 
122<Ogre> ow
123<Ogre> also, looking at that reddit link katiedid dropped.
124<Ogre> it's super weird, it's like looking into another timeline.
125<katiedid> Isn't it a trip?
126<VAE_work> https://i.imgur.com/X7eG3b3.jpg
127<katiedid> http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/29/tomi-lahren-final-thoughts-grammy-awards-elitist-anti-trump-celebrities
128<+gonzobot> Title: Tomi Lahren: Grammys Turned Into Celebration of Elites' Trump Derangement Syndrome | Fox News Insider
129<Ogre> but I mean, they -really believe- this stuff.
130<Ogre> it's kinda disturbing.
131<Ogre> how do we convince them that they're living in a bubble?
132<katiedid> VAE_work: lol
133<Tox> Ogre: I don't know if we can.
134<katiedid> Ogre: We're doing it
135<katiedid> http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/grammy-awards-viewership-ratings-down-bruno-mars-1202680032/
136<+gonzobot> Title: TV Ratings: Grammy Awards Shed Nearly 10 Million Viewers From 2017 – Variety
137<katiedid> People aren't watching them
138<katiedid> Look at the comments of that article
139<katiedid> A VARIETY article
140<katiedid> It's almost all people who are sick and tired of celebrities and their political agendas
141<katiedid> Losing ratings means losing advertising revenue
142<katiedid> They'll cut that shit out when they start losing enough money
143<katiedid> Just like the NFL
144<katiedid> Also https://i.redd.it/sexsj6yuw6d01.png
145<katiedid> "Not to rain on your parade but this was two days before the grammys and he wasn't eating alone."
146<Tilted> He was eating with Kanye West, self-proclaimed greatest musician in the world.
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150<katiedid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONs1gpwkCrk
151<+gonzobot> (katiedid) TRAILER: #Farmlands - length 1m 47s - 5,649 likes, 77 dislikes (98.7%) - 34,191 views - Lauren Southern on 2018.01.29
152<katiedid> ^ That shit is.... I don't even know
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155<Tilted> https://imgur.com/gallery/GxmNd California bans zombiphobic people
156<+gonzobot> Title: That was quick - Album on Imgur
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159<@Patriarchy> [RotoSequence] [Bronyism Intensifies]
160»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o RotoSequence)
161<@Blackknight64> Is it bad that every time I see a RESIST bumper sticker, my initial impulse is to go hock a big, phlegmy loogie on their windshield?
162<katiedid> Blackknight64: My former store director would keep two things in his car
163<katiedid> A cup of pennies
164<katiedid> And a cup of his tobacco spit
165<@Blackknight64> Lol, oh dear
166<katiedid> He's used both
167<Tilted> No, get a "Feel the Bern" sticker, cut the feel off and stick it after theirs
168<katiedid> https://i.redd.it/jnm278l4v6d01.jpg
169<@Blackknight64> ...lol
170<Ogre> I'm kinda suprised laura southern would even touch that.
171<@Blackknight64> God, I'm glad for the founders' foresight in implementing the electoral college.
172<asd5a> Blackknight64: expand on that
173<@ctwelve> First letter to patchy is...away.
174<Tilted> asd5a: It keeps highly concentrated cities from running the whole country.
175<Tilted> There's a not insignificant number of people living in cities who've never seen actual crops being grown, or any number of insights that more rural or small town people will see
176<@ctwelve> so the idea was basically that only someone who could capture a diversity of political intent could win
177<@Blackknight64> asd5a: specifically, in this instance, the individual in question clearly does not have an understanding of how the US Presidential election works.  That tends to go hand in hand with Tilted's point.
178<@ctwelve> And by the flip side
179<@ctwelve> a lot of rural people do not /get/ urban living
180<@Blackknight64> Further, I believe Universal Sufferage was an absolute mistake.  
181<@ctwelve> ...I mostly agree.
182<@ctwelve> I don't know a way to fix it. I want a "skin in the game" electorate but that's maddingly difficult to define
183<@Blackknight64> In that people with no skin in the game shouldn't have a say in how things are run.
184<asd5a> it also means that your vote counts less if you are living in a city
185<@ctwelve> well, sorta.
186<@ctwelve> it doesn't /directly/ mean that.
187<@Blackknight64> Not really.
188<@ctwelve> because city dwellers automatically dominate the house of reps
189<Tilted> It was also a method to simplify the election process before high speed information was possible
190<@Blackknight64> Larger populationd get more electors.
191<@ctwelve> I would be down with a single transferable vote refinement to the election process, I think
192<@ctwelve> first past the post has issues
193<asd5a> Blackknight64: linearly proportional to the amount of population?
194<@ctwelve> it is /almost/
195<@Blackknight64> Sorta.  Sec.
196<@ctwelve> it's very close to linear
197<asd5a> my main issue is really with first past the post
198<@ctwelve> there are three states who have reps that are advantageously over-represented
199<@Blackknight64> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)
200<+gonzobot> Title: Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia
201<@ctwelve> that would be ND, WY and...I forget the other one
202<@ctwelve> but ND and WY in particular
203<asd5a> and that most states vote in blocks
204<@ctwelve> every state gets at least 1 rep
205<Tilted> Rhode Island?
206<@ctwelve> well
207<@ctwelve> that is a per-state issue though asd5a 
208<asd5a> yes
209<@ctwelve> the states govern their own electors
210<@ctwelve> including if there is a vote /at all/
211<@ctwelve> which a lot of people forget about
212<@ctwelve> the Constitution only states that a state gets Electors numbering equal to their representation in Congress
213<@ctwelve> and one for DC
214<@ctwelve> what those electors are, how they vote, etc., all down to the states
215<@RotoSequence> The states with lots of illegal immigrants are overrepresented in the House
216<Ogre> urg
217<@ctwelve> that too
218<Ogre> man, it's a sad poop day.
219<@ctwelve> there's a subtle detail that's not often known asd5a 
220<@ctwelve> ...Ogre?
221<Ogre> yeah?
222<@ctwelve> (asd5a: representatives do not represent citizens, they represent /the people/ according to the census. That means areas with very high levels of immigration get more Representation)
223<@ctwelve> You said sad day
224<@ctwelve> i was inquiring as to why
225<@RotoSequence> Their voice in the electoral college is proportionately larger because of alien residents in the Census as well
226<Ogre> I don't know what I ate, but I've crapped twice this morning, and I have my own personal Ring of Fire.
227<Tilted> Ogre: It could be worse. It could be an emotional rollercoaster poop day.
228<@ctwelve> ^6
229<@RotoSequence> One of the things that's expected to happen in the 2020 census is illegal aliens get left out of the stats
230<@ctwelve> I had a failed change at 3:30am today
231<@RotoSequence> All aliens even
232<@ctwelve> cause: optical cables flipped 
233<@ctwelve> but we had too small fo a change window to diagnose
234<@ctwelve> so we had to walk back
235<@ctwelve> RotoSequence: ...really?
236<@ctwelve> That actually may not survive Constitutional challenge
237<@RotoSequence> That's a rumor I ran into anyway
238<@ctwelve> because the wording is pretty black-and-white
239<@ctwelve> a representative represents the people excluding non-free
240<@ctwelve> and the census counts /the people/
241<Tilted> The wording in the bill of rights is pretty black and white and they still fuck that up
242<@RotoSequence> ^
243<@ctwelve> the Constitution clearly distinguishes between people and citizen
244<@ctwelve> right, but that doesn't mean I want them to /do it more/ even if it maybe is in my electoral interests for them to do so
245<@RotoSequence> The Constitution did not afford People voting rights by default either IIRC
246<Ogre> I could live with the rollercoaster, but the ring of fire is stretching it.
247<@ctwelve> ...that's not all that's getting stretched apparently...
248»» @ctwelve flees
249»» Tilted lassos ctwelve
250<Tilted> .roll d20
251<+gonzobot> (Tilted) 17 (17)
252»» @ctwelve attempts Mod Escape
253<@ctwelve> .roll d20 + 10
254<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) 25 (15)
255<@RotoSequence> lol
256»» Tilted ties ogre to the rope
257<@ctwelve> But yeah.
258<@ctwelve> I hope they don't try that with the census
259<@ctwelve> the proper place to fix this is at the border, and through enforcement
260<@ctwelve> doing an extra-constitutional thing to alter the districting will not survive challenge
261<@ctwelve> and will only serve to deepen the divide
262<@ctwelve> which we really, truly do not need right now
263<@Blackknight64> As to implementation of skin in the game, ctwelve: I think it's really pretty simple.  Pay more in taxes than you receive via refund, or perform federal service of any sort, satisfactorily completing a "term" of at least four years.
264<asd5a> Is city versus rural such a big topic? This doesnt come up in german politics as far as i noticed
265<@ctwelve> In the US it is /huge/
266<@ctwelve> because there is really no middle ground
267<@ctwelve> places are either very urban or in the middle of goddamned nowhere
268<Tilted> Blackknight64: That would cut out well over half the population
269<@ctwelve> and the culture differences can divide right down the middle of a /county/
270<@Blackknight64> Fine by me, Tilted.
271<@ctwelve> And...in fact, it would make the electorate heavily Democrat, Blackknight64 
272<Tilted> Including a huge number of conservatives
273<@Blackknight64> Still don't care.
274<@ctwelve> like...vastly more democrat then you're thinking
275<@Blackknight64> There's options there 
276<@Blackknight64> See Federal Service route.
277<Tilted> Like, this would essentially put the election solely in the hands of cities
278<@ctwelve> Pretty much
279<@Blackknight64> Less than you'd think.
280<@ctwelve> well, actually
281<@ctwelve> no it wouldn't
282<@ctwelve> bcause the electoral college is still there
283<@Blackknight64> Yep.
284<@ctwelve> I don't see this happenign without a civil war
285<@Blackknight64> Never said it would happen
286<Tilted> Because it's not a very good idea
287<@Blackknight64> I just said that that's what I would *prefer*
288»» @Blackknight64 shrugs
289<asd5a> this would disenfrancise a huge part of the population
290<@Blackknight64> Yep.
291<@Blackknight64> I'm fine with that.
292<@Blackknight64> See my previous point about universal sufferage.
293<@ctwelve> Yeah. The argument is that people should earn the franchise. That's always the trick, though.
294<Tilted> That would cut me and ogre out
295<@ctwelve> not ogre
296<@ctwelve> he's done federal service
297<@Blackknight64> ^
298<@ctwelve> and you will eventually earn enough to pay taxes
299<@ctwelve> most everyone does
300<@Blackknight64> ^
301<@ctwelve> it just...doesn't happen at 18 for most people
302<@ctwelve> I'd say once enfranchised you cannot /ever/ be disenfranchised except by Felony conviction
303<@ctwelve> and then you can earn re-enfranchisement after serving a full sentence
304<@Blackknight64> I'd be alright with that corrollary.
305<Ogre> no
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307<@ctwelve> I don't think I'd go along with this idea in the current system, frankly
308<Ogre> you can commit a felony these days by -not- doing anything.
309<a_man_in_black> I can get my voting back but it'll be hard
310<@ctwelve> Ogre: corallary: felony defined by common law
311<@ctwelve> but good point
312<Tilted> I have a neighbor who has a felony for stealing a sandwich
313<Tilted> Apparently he was too close to a Bill Clinton event at the time, saw an abandoned sandwich and ate it
314<a_man_in_black> have to avoid so much as a parking ticket or anything else for seven years after my probation is cleared 
315<@ctwelve> any asd5a that urban/rural divide has been here since the absolute founding of the States
316<@ctwelve> .w whisky rebellion
317<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) The Whiskey Rebellion (also known as the Whiskey Insurrection) was a tax protest in the United States beginning in 1791 during the presidency of George Washington. :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
318<asd5a> that whole idea would increase the average voter age and thus give the baby boomers more power
319<Ogre> the current felony system needs to be seriously overhauled.
320<@Blackknight64> I'd agree with that, Ogre.
321<Tilted> Blackknight64: Under that system, you could also disenfranchise huge numbers of people at will, simply by changing tax code.
322<@RotoSequence> The Baby Boomers will be basically dead in 20 years
323<@Blackknight64> See Federal Service.
324<@RotoSequence> Gotta think longer term implications than "The Boomers"
325<Tilted> See 2008 when the military could pick and choose whomever they wanted, and refused tons of people
326<asd5a> (the old voting block is one of the things i see as an issue here)
327<Tilted> Who'd normally be let in
328<@ctwelve> Still can
329<@Blackknight64> I'm not talking strictly military.
330<@ctwelve> but yeah
331<asd5a> RotoSequence: replace boomers with old people in general
332<@Blackknight64> Hence Federal,  not military.
333<Tilted> There's not that many other federal positions
334<Tilted> Many are filled for decades
335<@Blackknight64> I'll even allow a voluntary refusal to take a refund.
336<@Blackknight64> Point is, you very well need to have some stake in the game.
337<@ctwelve> Myself, I would maybe go for this: 21 years of age, has completed a national service; or 35 years of age and is a net contributor to society either through taxation or defined professional service; or has been duly appointed by a representative and ratified by the state governor
338<Tilted> Are you suggesting that poor people have no stake in politics?
339<@ctwelve> this would need to be strictly defined on all point
340<@Blackknight64> I'm suggesting that if you're taking more than you're getting, you shouldn't have a say in how funds are disbursed.
341<Tilted> Billionaires pay 80% of the taxes
342<Tilted> Why should you have any say
343<Tilted> Actually, it's probably closer to 90%.
344<@Blackknight64> You're still missing the point.
345<Tilted> Why not go back to just owning land?
346<@ctwelve> He's not claiming a vote proportional to contribution
347<@ctwelve> he's positing a voice on the /binary proposition/ of contribution
348<@ctwelve> no matter how small
349<@ctwelve> because property isn't a safe measure anymore
350<@Blackknight64> ^
351<@ctwelve> you can be a net contributor to society in many ways without owning property
352<@ctwelve> in a largely urban people, that's the rule, not the exception
353<@ctwelve> I suspect this is begging for Shenanigans, though
354<Tilted> It wasn't a suggestion, it was pointing out how this is just screwing a bunch of people over, and there's not any real system currently to deal with it
355<@ctwelve> which is why I suspect universal sufferage at 21 is the only real safe bet, or
356<@ctwelve> universal sufferage at 35, with an option at 21 after completion of federal service
357<@Blackknight64> Okay, Tilted.  If that's how you feel, by all means.
358<Ogre> land owners and business owners...
359<asd5a> btw: it is "suffrage"
360<@ctwelve> he's playing devil's advocate, Blackknight64 
361»» @ctwelve spritzes Tilted and Blackknight64 
362<Tilted> You want something like this Blackknight64? Compulsionary military service.
363<Ogre> single white male isn't invested in society.
364<@Blackknight64> Yeah, I know asd5a.  Typoriffic.
365<Ogre> oh fuck no.
366<Tox> *compulsory
367<@ctwelve> that I /really/ don't want that Tilted 
368<@Blackknight64> Nahhh.
369<Ogre> no. no.no bad
370<@ctwelve> conscript militaries are all of the bad
371<@ctwelve> it /has/ to be a volunteer service
372<@ctwelve> we would be destroyed if we ever went back to conscript armies
373<asd5a> Blackknight64: i am just pointing that out because that typo is spreading
374<Ogre> now, I'm all for low bar to enlistment.
375<Tox> ctwelve: well, what is the draft but a conscript army
376<@ctwelve> it's imposible to convey how important that volunteer aspect is to how the US DoD works
377<@Blackknight64> Right-o
378<Ogre> and doing things like changing the tattoo policy.
379<@ctwelve> Tox: it's a formality and a "just in case" policy
380<@ctwelve> I'm not super keen on a low bar, either
381<Tilted> Well, if you tie voting rights to money or service, this is basically what you get
382<@Blackknight64> It changes every couple of years, Ogre.
383<asd5a> how about compulsory service with social service as alternative?
384<Ogre> to something reasonable, like 'who gives a shit' coupled with tattooing "I'm a fucking moron" on the faces of the shitheads who keep fucking with it.
385<@Blackknight64> No dude.
386<@ctwelve> I disagree with /any/ compulsary service
387<Ogre> ^
388<@ctwelve> like I disagree with mandatory voting
389<Tox> A formality, sure, cause it's unlikely that anyone's gonna reinstate it, but it till matches the definition
390<@ctwelve> if you can't be assed to voluntarily participate, we do not want you voting, period.
391<@Blackknight64> If you pay more in taxes than you receive in refund, then you're good.
392<Tilted> ctwelve: But they don't vote
393<Tilted> Here's the thing
394<Ogre> because bouncing marines for friggin moto-tats is window-licking stupid.
395<@Blackknight64> That's a *very low* bar
396<Tilted> They don't fucking vote currently
397<@ctwelve> and?
398<Tilted> So leave it open for the people who actually want to
399<@ctwelve> I'm honestly a bit confused here
400<@ctwelve> right
401<@ctwelve> and that's counter to the ida, which is that enfranchisement shouldn't be universal
402<@ctwelve> nor should it be compulsary 
403<Tilted> And fuck off with giving the government power over deciding if you're worthy
404<Ogre> the elephant in the room. The Free Shit Army votes for those who give out free shit.
405<@Blackknight64> ^
406<@ctwelve> eh
407<Tilted> Oh no, people you don't like vote.
408<Ogre> so it's a bidding war, on who can offer more free shit.
409<@ctwelve> guise
410<@ctwelve> calm
411<@ctwelve> people can and do disagree strongly on this
412<Tox> Caaaaaaaaaaaalm
413<@Blackknight64> I remain calm.  :)
414»» Tox fills Blackknight64 with a sense of universal peace and love
415»» Tox and also steak
416<@ctwelve> I think honestly Tilted's point is why universal suffrage needs to be a thing past a certain age
417<Ogre> dude, -I'm on SSDI-.
418<Ogre> I'm literally talking about taking away my own right to vote, dummy.
419<@ctwelve> like...35 or so. Make early suffrage a possibility due to Federal Service, maybe
420<@ctwelve> Ogre: stop.
421<@ctwelve> Tilted is heated but he is not insulting anyone
422<@ctwelve> you just called him a ummy
423<Tilted> If you tie it to military service, then put an age limit at around 30, that's okay in my opinion
424<@ctwelve> you're warned
425<Tilted> Tilted is also hungry
426<@ctwelve> Oh
427<@ctwelve> well
428<@ctwelve> you /are/ being a diva
429<@ctwelve> go get a Snickers
430<@ctwelve> :)
431<Ogre> ...ok then.
432<@RotoSequence> asd5a, there might be something to be said for young people being too young to vote well
433<Tilted> But I will not agree with tying voting rights to your income
434<asd5a> ctwelve: honestly, putting an age limit like this up seems like a good way to get an even more apathic populace
435<@ctwelve> well, being honest?
436<@ctwelve> If people /cannot be assed to vote/ then they're disenfranchising themselves
437<@ctwelve> and have no right to complain
438<@ctwelve> I am okay with that
439<Tilted> Not a lot of people under 30 vote anyways
440<@Blackknight64> Heh.
441<Tilted> Which is why, to a certain extent, this is an attempt to fix something of a non-problem
442<@Blackknight64> Yooooou'd be surprised.
443<Tilted> I've got no idea what the last two years did to that
444<Ogre> it's not a non prolbme.
445<@Blackknight64> I spent a handful of years politicking as part of a college organization, and later directly for the Republican party in Kentucky.
446<Tilted> .g united states voting percentage by age
447<+gonzobot> (Tilted) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections -- The broadest historical trends in voter turnout in the United States presidential elections ... is the…
448<Ogre> the reasons the democrats have maintained the power they have, is they have been the party of 'free stuff' for decades.
449<@ctwelve> (also, apologies to Ogre. That was maybe a bit of an overreaction. Also, I didn't call you the Diva, I called Tilted one ;P )
450<Tilted> I'm not disagreeing with that, Ogre, but I think it's a bit more nuanced.
451<Ogre> no, it's -exactly- that.
452<Tilted> They tend to be given a very... improved? light on what they do.
453<Ogre> they bought the black vote with welfare.
454<Ogre> flat out.
455<@RotoSequence> Some irony in that poor and young peole vote less, but there's also more of them
456<@ctwelve> Ogre: the infamous LBJ quote?
457«--- stonewall (stonewall@quis.custodiet.ipsos.custodes) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
458<Ogre> ctwelve - yeah, among others.
459»» Tilted wanders off to prepare a bowl of rice with cheddar and smoked bison
460<Ogre> I gotta table this, I have to go buy insulin, I'm out.
461---» stonewall (stonewall@quis.custodiet.ipsos.custodes) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
462<@Blackknight64> Arright.  Later, fellas.
463<@ctwelve> Tilted: that's both criminal and awesome
464---» Adradis (Adradis@Snoonet-ism.pe9.a69e46.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
465»» Now talking on ##HFYpolitics
466»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics is: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<BREAKING NEWS  ++ NUNES MEMO ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
467»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics set by ctwelve!sid54852@HFY/the.lore.seeker at Mon Jan 29 19:42:18 2018
468<@Patriarchy> [GamingWolfie] I am the Archwolf; High Prophet to the Potato. The Bringer of the Starchy Word, the Purveyor of Order. Kneel before me: http://i.imgur.com/K4OVGW2.png
469»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o GamingWolfie)
470---» Tehpillowstar (doublemagic@user/Tehpillowstar) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
471---» CreatureCoby (uid76249@user/CreatureCoby) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
472<Tilted> Ctwelve: it's also covered in butter
473<CreatureCoby> .grabr
474<+gonzobot> <c​alistian> I am not hungry because of katie's vagina
475<CreatureCoby> magical
476<Tilted> I have questions about how that would work, but I do not want the answers.
477<@ctwelve> Okay, this is clearly tribal but the threat is glorious https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7u17wn/fbi_director_wray_shocked_to_his_core_by_fisa/dtgponn/
478<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) FBI Director Wray "Shocked To His Core" By FISA Memo, McCabe... : The_Donald - 176 comments, 3,931 points - halfastman, 4h ago
479<@ctwelve> s/threat/thread
480<+gonzobot> Correction, <ctwelve> Okay, this is clearly tribal but the thread is glorious https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7u17wn/fbi_director_wray_shocked_to_his_core_by_fisa/dtgponn/
481<katiedid> CreatureCoby: wat
482«--- TheGreekOwl (GreekOwl@user/TheGreekOwl) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
483<Jalapenyo> ... meanwhile in Baltimore
484<Jalapenyo> https://www.theroot.com/baltimore-cops-kept-toy-guns-to-plant-just-in-case-they-1822546984?utm_source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
485<+gonzobot> Title: Baltimore Cops Kept Toy Guns to Plant Just in Case They Shot an Unarmed Person
486<Jalapenyo> the Gun Trace Task Force is just /oozing/ corruption
487<Jalapenyo> I mean, badly
488»» @Blackknight64 twitches
489<CreatureCoby> katiedid: things
490<CreatureCoby> Jalapenyo: i live there
491<CreatureCoby> well
492<CreatureCoby> 30 min south
493<CreatureCoby> but my sis lives in bmore
494<CreatureCoby> gawd dammit
495»» CTMGame is now known as CTMGame|zzz
496<Tilted> .grabr
497<+gonzobot> <c​alistian> I am not hungry because of katie's vagina
498<katiedid> -_-
499<CreatureCoby> .grabr
500<+gonzobot> <c​twelve> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/g9GZ9ej4/IMG_0045.JPG
501<Tox> urgh
502<Tilted> Gonzo is not very random
503<CreatureCoby> YES
504<CreatureCoby> I MISSED THIS PICTURE
505<CreatureCoby> ctwelve: thank you
506<Tox> partly related to politics but also just me having a whinge
507<Tox> I really hope my job doesn't send me back to Maryland...
508<CreatureCoby> Tox: COME
509<CreatureCoby> IS BEAUTIFUL STATE
510<Tox> no it's not
511<Tox> source: lived there
512<CreatureCoby> just shitty politicians and people with ideals so far up their asses
513<CreatureCoby> bruh
514<CreatureCoby> i'm MD born and raised
515<CreatureCoby> go fuck yourself
516<CreatureCoby> i love my state
517<Tox> dude so am I
518<CreatureCoby> it's amazing
519<Tox> I've lived in Maryland since I was, what, three or four
520<CreatureCoby> fite me
521<Tilted> And I'm from Florida. Maybe we just like where we grew up if our childhood wasn't bad?
522<Tox> only moved in '14 to follow my job
523<Tox> CreatureCoby also I'd be committing like two dozen felonies if I moved back there
524<Tilted> Only two dozen?
525<Tilted> That's rookie numbers
526<CreatureCoby> YOU GOTTA PUMP THOSE NUMBERS UP
527<CreatureCoby> :P
528<CreatureCoby> but eh
529<CreatureCoby> the gun law are dumb
530<Tox> wait no they grandfathered possession of """""""""high-capacity""""""""" magazines
531<CreatureCoby> but you can drive over to VA and drive back
532<Tox> so only two
533<Tox> look at my felonies CreatureCoby :( https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2fl4F_Kqf8YZ3c1RzVoVTF3RlU
534<+gonzobot> Title: Weapons.jpg - Google Drive
535<CreatureCoby> wait
536<CreatureCoby> Tox: what's the banner inthe background
537<CreatureCoby> also the rifle is gorgeous
538<Tilted> I thought they were Nerf guns at first
539<Tox> CreatureCoby: that's a House Davion banner from BattleTech
540<CreatureCoby> o
541<Tox> CreatureCoby: I'm quite fond of my raifu
542<CreatureCoby> thought it was something to do with jedi old republic
543<Tox> Tilted: Heh
544<CreatureCoby> or brotherhood of steel
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546»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h nightinphone)
547<Tox> though does Maryland permit you to have them in your house at least
548<Tox> or are they not following Heller
549<CreatureCoby> idk
550<CreatureCoby> my friend is building a couple rifles atm
551<CreatureCoby> and they look KEWL
552<CreatureCoby> he is going for competitive shooting
553<Tox> nice
554<Jalapenyo> Competitive is fun, I'm hoping to get into 3 gun at some point 
555»» Tilted is now known as [Tilted]
556<Jalapenyo> Right now I'm just doing Olympic-style riflery. 
557<[Tilted]> I looked quickly at that and I thought you were doing Olympic-style artillery at first, Jalapenyo.
558<Jalapenyo> Lmao
559<Jalapenyo> I wish
560<CreatureCoby> is 3 gun where you are juggling 3 guns and shooting clay pigeons?
561<[Tilted]> No, it's close though. You're juggling clay pigeons, then three people shoot them at the same time
562<CreatureCoby> Ah
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564<Tox> well
565<Tox> not really
566<Tox> it's a competition where you carry three guns (pistol, rifle, shotgun) and engage different targets at different stages
567---» BrowserLurker (BrowserLurk@Snoonet-154.70s.s73kfo.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
568<BrowserLurker> https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/25/health/cuckolding-sex-kerner/index.html
569<+gonzobot> Title: Cuckolding can be positive for some couples, study says  - CNN
570<BrowserLurker> .......
571<[Tilted]> That was in the latest TWiS from Sargon
572<Tox> wat
573<[Tilted]> It took him nine minutes to stop calling them useless idiots.
574<Tox> n our current political climate, the term "cuck" -- short for "cuckservative" NO YOU BLITHERING MORONS
575<@RotoSequence> ...
576<[Tilted]> Someone go put cuckservative into google to see how many results you get
577<BrowserLurker> you know, I would laugh and see this as absurd if this was slate
578<[Tilted]> Because I'm pretty sure nobody uses that as a word
579<BrowserLurker> or mary sue, or salon
580<BrowserLurker> but this is -fucking cnn-
581<BrowserLurker> Good lord.
582<Tox> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckservative
583<+gonzobot> Title: Cuckservative - Wikipedia
584<Tox> About 212,000 results (0.38 seconds)
585<Tox> by contrast, 'cuck': About 22,300,000 results (0.25 seconds)
586<[Tilted]> Tox: Go look at the portals under "See also" in the wikipedia article
587<Tox> geez
588<[Tilted]> Also, seems 4chan invented it, which is why it looks autistic
589<[Tilted]> People also need to figure out that fascism is a form of government that prioritizes the State over all, and not just some people being racist.
590<[Tilted]> If the current administration was actually fascist, they'd be kicking a huge number of companies out of the country
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593<Adradis> So, hypothetical
594<Adradis> You have control over the government (Or at the very least, they'll follow your policy and not try to ruin it)
595<Adradis> How do you get American to sub 10% obese/overweight rating within 10-20 years
596<Tox> you don't
597<Tox> That's not the government's responsibility to reach down that far
598<Adradis> Except public health is a government issue
599<BrowserLurker> Tox: well you can do some things
600<BrowserLurker> y'know, like run PSAs that arent assbackwards like the broken food pyramid
601<Tox> Some things, sure. Trans fats, etc
602<Tox> Ha ha yeah
603<BrowserLurker> and since the gov IS currently like in control of school lunches of PUBLIC schools
604<BrowserLurker> you are within your right (of circumstance) to fix that too
605<BrowserLurker> So that's basically how I'd do it
606<Tox> yeah, you fix that by getting government the fuck out
607<BrowserLurker> proper nutrition education, fix current broken food pyramid, run awareness campaigns to eat well and excercise
608<BrowserLurker> look, Tox dude I'm pretty hardcore libertarian, but there is stuff the gov can do without overreaching
609<BrowserLurker> just because they -advise- you do something, doesnt mean they're FORCING you too
610<Tox> BrowserLurker: have you seen the pig disgusting shit that passes for school lunches
611<Tox> that's what I was referring to specifically when I said "get the government out"
612<Adradis> And, depending on how far you feel about government overreach, tax incentives for actually attending a gym would be a carrot you could offer
613<BrowserLurker> yes, and it's almost as if the gov has the responsibility to -fix- that shit if they're the ones having to run public education that the public by and large wants
614<Adradis> It'd probably be even worse if you let free market decide the meals entirely
615<Tox> BrowserLurker: that is the government's fixing it
616<BrowserLurker> I am all for reducing government reach, but as the circumstances stand now
617<Adradis> rather than the bare minimum requirements that they have now
618<BrowserLurker> No, no it's not. That's the gov trying to listen to people screaming about reducing costs
619<BrowserLurker> they just decided to reduce costs in the most retarded and backwards way possible
620<BrowserLurker> y'know, as the gov does.
621<Tox> Like, the current state of public school lunches is what it is because of, primarily, Michelle Obama's talking about school lunches
622<Tox> Well, maybe
623<BrowserLurker> It's not black and white tox
624<BrowserLurker> you can have the gov trying to do one thing, then being yelled at to do another, and the result is just retardation.
625<BrowserLurker> I am not a fan of michelles reforms, but there is no reason to throw the baby out with bath water.
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627<BrowserLurker> You CAN have limited government fixing of school lunches if you are okay with the concept of public schools, which the majority of people are.
628<BrowserLurker> Primarily by not having it be a fried carb fest as well as it not being slop as it turned into.
629<BrowserLurker> Also, Adradis a big thing I'd do?
630<BrowserLurker> Curriculum reform
631<BrowserLurker> get kids doing more PE classes per week, and hope it sticks
632<BrowserLurker> Atm where I'm at, we have at most 2 PE classes within the week, and depending on the cycle we sometimes have no gym at all
633<Adradis> Yeah. Useful PE (Including the fact that some folks aren't gonna be interested in some exercises) + health courses + a basic understanding of nutrition would go a ways
634<BrowserLurker> Mhm
635<Adradis> But you also have to drive that into the parents, and make sure healthy food is reasonably affordable (depending on where you live, that can be a bit of a mess)
636<BrowserLurker> If you *are* gonna have kids going to a public school theres great oppertunity in teaching them right.
637<Adradis> but even just understanding calorie input/output would help
638<BrowserLurker> And we'll put aside the argument of private vs public for later, this is just in the circumstance of having public schools as a given.
639<BrowserLurker> Honestly, just getting kids motivated about gym class is a big one.
640<BrowserLurker> Some excercise, even if a little, is a great starting point and may even lead to permanent lifestyle change.
641<BrowserLurker> If funds were to allow it, I think gym classes maybe would benefit from being seperated by ability.
642<BrowserLurker> kids who are already in shape and playing sports go to one class, where they're pushed further and actaully given enough challenge
643<Adradis> Also accepting that some folks aren't gonna be into running or swimming or whatever for exercise
644<BrowserLurker> and the less physically fit get an intro class that tries to instill at least basic form and training.
645<Adradis> but will love the fuck out of weights
646<Adradis> and vice versa
647<BrowserLurker> Yeah, thats one thing my school does really well
648<BrowserLurker> we have a weight room thats open every other lunch and after school, and some gym teachers just let the students hit the weight room instead of whatever other bullshit they had planned
649<BrowserLurker> like we waste a shitload of money at our school on our auditorium that gets used maybe like...5 times out of the year
650<BrowserLurker> I'd much rather that money go to more gym classes and school supplies.
651<a_man_in_black> the easiest way to get America into shape is with fitness based tax deduction 
652<a_man_in_black> like on cimbrean 
653<BrowserLurker> ...
654<BrowserLurker> lol
655<Adradis> The amount of screaming for that would be impressive
656<Adradis> but yeah; as one prong of a multi-approach, it has merit
657<Adradis> Not much that small-gov folks will like, but public health is a big gov picture issue
658<BrowserLurker> Like, it's not *hard* to get america back into shape. It's just that it's gonna be a clusterfuck of a lot of little things
659<Adradis> Because a healthy citizen base is a productive citizen baes
660<BrowserLurker> Adradis: well even the small gov folks may not have an issue of it because it's not that expensive
661<BrowserLurker> you could probably do this with just redirection of funds.
662<a_man_in_black> the one thing that has always held true for getting Americans to do anything is to pay them for it
663<Adradis> BrowserLurker: Eh, look up in the chat at the start, already we've got screaming about it
664<BrowserLurker> Adradis: I'm aware. I'm a of small gov as well. But I understand that there are things we can reasonbly accomplish without overspending.
665<BrowserLurker> It's matter of properly budgeting it. It's not like we're arguing to put an ipad in every classroom
666<Adradis> Also ensuring it won't get sabotaged for political points over a generation
667<BrowserLurker> mhm
668<BrowserLurker> Adradis: I wonder if VR is actaully gonna affect this
669<BrowserLurker> because a shitton of people play vidya, but at the moment thats mostly just sitting down
670<Adradis> At the very least, it's invoking some minor moving of the body
671<BrowserLurker> but VR actaully can fucking wind you really quickly, it's exertion
672<BrowserLurker> so if it becomes popular, you might actaully be able to gameify excercise
673<Adradis> Start making real life stats -> vr stats (Running speed, etc)
674<Adradis> and let the competition begin
675<BrowserLurker> Mhm, or just incorporate movement into games
676<BrowserLurker> TBH, even if that isn't done, vr is still quite tiring. I think it'll definetly have an effect.
677<BrowserLurker> Adradis: if there was a fallout game where you had to travel in real time by walking on like a treadmill-like thing
678<BrowserLurker> I'd definetly play it
679<BrowserLurker> I'd also probably loose a shitload of weight.
680<Adradis> Everyone would wither into muscle skeletons
681<Tox> BrowserLurker: have I got the thing for you
682<Tox> http://www.virtuix.com/
683<+gonzobot> Title: Virtuix Omni first of its kind active virtual reality motion platform
684<Tox> that shallow bowl they're standing on translates walking into the game
685<Tox> https://youtu.be/C2kZrywOCAk
686<+gonzobot> (Tox) Virtuix Omni - Best of CES 2016 - length 2m 23s - 389 likes, 13 dislikes (96.8%) - 53,494 views - Virtuix Omni on 2016.02.09
687<BrowserLurker> man my thighs would be ripped with this
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690<Ogre> and back
691<Ogre> ah yes, government mandated  exercise. a capital idea.
692<Ogre> of course, you'll have to have complete surveillance to ensure compliance.
693<Ogre> and manditory physicals.
694<Ogre> and, of course, we have to enforce compliance.
695<Ogre> I know, we can structure fitness groups, by neighborhood. we can call them "Health Observation Associations."
696<Ogre> HOA.. it's got a nice ring to it.
697<Ogre> and we can have the HOA fine you and punish you for being fat and out of shape. it'll be great.
698<VAE> you know
699<VAE> That Chinese system might end up being a worse alternative
700<VAE> "You're fat? We'll lower the citizen rating of everyone you interact with lol"
701<Ogre> that thing out orwells orwell.
702<@ctwelve> that is impressive.
703<@ctwelve> like, not in a positive sense
704<Ogre> impressive in the "Hitler killed -how many- jews?"
705<Ogre> sense.
706<@ctwelve> The "citizen credit score" is one of the most evil concepts I've ever heard of
707<Ogre> you hate it now? wait till the west implements it.
708<Ogre> oh yes, they will.
709<@ctwelve> eh, I doubt that.
710<@ctwelve> you are placing far more confidence in the Government's ability to do something secretly and successfully 
711<@ctwelve> then I would grant them
712<Ogre> from a statist POV, it's entirely too useful not to.
713<@ctwelve> so is effective surveillance
714<@ctwelve> and Snowden
715<Ogre> who said anything about secret or subtle?
716<@ctwelve> so, y'know.
717<@ctwelve> voters.
718<@ctwelve> It's not happening. not in the next 20 years.
719<@ctwelve> long term, who knows?
720<Ogre> shit, give em a burger king coupon, they'll opt in.
721<@ctwelve> But I won't pretend I can forecast anything past that
722<@ctwelve> See, you say that
723<@ctwelve> but nobody opts into the black box auto insurance stuff
724<@ctwelve> even though it can make their insyrance cheaper
725<Ogre> the money isn't good enough.
726<@ctwelve> same with health insurance and fitbit data
727<Ogre> also, my car won't support that.
728<@ctwelve> a burger isn't good enough by that same argument
729<@ctwelve> if it has an OBD II it is good enough
730<Ogre> 1972 VW squareback.
731<@ctwelve> ha!
732<@ctwelve> You should paint a giant hippy flower on it!
733<@ctwelve> y'know
734<Ogre> 1963 dodge dart
735<@ctwelve> using their blood
736<Ogre> and of course, the f350
737<Ogre> which also isn't ODBII compliant.
738<Ogre> besides, google's already selling that data to someone.
739<@ctwelve> So I've been explaining weird networks to Meatfcker 
740<Ogre> off my phone.
741<@ctwelve> in particular, WiFi
742<@ctwelve> people have /no idea/ how weird it is over-the-air
743<Ogre> oooh, storytime.
744»» Ogre listens.
745<@ctwelve> like, okay
746<asd5a> s/weird/horrible
747<+gonzobot> Correction, <ctwelve> people have /no idea/ how horrible it is over-the-air
748<@ctwelve> for most low-level networking? It looks ^^ kek
749<@ctwelve> anyway
750<@ctwelve> WiFi looks like Ethernet from the perspective of, say, a Linux kernel developer
751<@ctwelve> source mac, destination mac, EtherType
752<@ctwelve> Well...the WiFi Adapter must do a lot of extra bullshit
753<@ctwelve> for example, it must know the source MAC of the sender, the destination MAC of the receiver...and the BSSID MAC of the AP it want to send with, the SSID dynamic MAC of the SSID it intends to use, the current nonce, it's time window...and a billion other things
754<@ctwelve> An over-the-air exchange can involve as many as 4 different MAC addresses
755<@ctwelve> but not always
756»» captainmeta4 reads channel
757»» captainmeta4 goes back to mashing F5 on hfy-archive
758<@ctwelve> and the frame format has literally dozens of permutations
759<@ctwelve> most of which are all about channel and station management
760<@ctwelve> it is /horrifying/ Ogre 
761<@ctwelve> and as a final fuck you?
762<@ctwelve> No EtherTypes
763<@ctwelve> you MUST use 802.1 LLC
764<@ctwelve> and since absolutely no protocols in the modern era actually use LLC
765<@ctwelve> you must /further/ use the SNAP extension
766<@ctwelve> and the IEEE reserved OUI for EtherTypes
767<@ctwelve> all of which adds bullshit overhead that your driver must nonetheless process because WiFi 
768<@ctwelve> therefore /most/ WiFi adapters hide this nonsense 
769<@ctwelve> and present a standard NDIS Ethernet adapter
770<@ctwelve> with a secondary channel for WiFi-specific nonsense
771<asd5a> "this is why i drink"
772<@ctwelve> Mhmm
773<@ctwelve> WiFi is the only networking standard that makes Bluetooth look reasonable and Token Ring look downright sane
774<asd5a> i thought i had this bullshit purged from my memory
775<Tox> but ctwelve it's so easy to use
776»» @ctwelve murders Tox 
777<Tox> :^)
778»» asd5a shudders
779<asd5a> bluetooth is horrible for different reasons
780<@Blackknight64> So
781<@Blackknight64> What's the over/under on the FISA memo being dropped during the SOTU?
782<@ctwelve> I suspect not.
783<@ctwelve> well, okay.
784<@ctwelve> define what you mean.
785<@ctwelve> by "drop" do you mean "released while he's speaking?"
786<@ctwelve> or "he mentions it personally?"
787<@ctwelve> I think the latter is unlikely
788<@ctwelve> the former...has possibility
789<asd5a> ahem https://www.armis.com/blueborne/
790<+gonzobot> Title: BlueBorne Information from the Research Team - Armis Labs
791<@Blackknight64> Trump taking a few minutes to troll the Dems and reading the shit personally.  :P
792<@ctwelve> I think that is unlikely
793<@Blackknight64> It'd be the most glorious of shitposts in real time
794<@Blackknight64> Well, sure.
795<@ctwelve> because at this point it is very important he not screw this up
796<@Blackknight64> I honestly wasn't being serious.
797<@ctwelve> heh
798<@ctwelve> asd5a: ayup
799<@ctwelve> this is why Apple requires hardware security tokens for any of their MFi logo certifications
800<asd5a> plus proximity marketing (using bluetooth) makes it very unacceptable and devious that headphone jacks are getting phased out in favour of bluetooth
801<@ctwelve> Well
802<@ctwelve> That I expect will be fixed over time
803<@ctwelve> any decent Bluetooth headphones support software updates
804<@ctwelve> and that's the one major silver lining for Beats bluetooth
805<@ctwelve> since it's Apple fanbois that largely buy them
806<@ctwelve> and Apple owns Beat
807<asd5a> the problem is bluetooth itself
808<@ctwelve> your iPhone will basically force you to update when its necessary
809<@ctwelve> right but it'll likely be addressed before Bluetooth 5
810<asd5a> once it is active it can be used to track you/create a profile etc.
811<@ctwelve> > iOS
812<@ctwelve> All iPhone, iPad and iPod touch devices with iOS 9.3.5 and lower, and AppleTV devices with version 7.2.2 and lower are affected by the remote code execution vulnerability (CVE-2017-14315). This vulnerability was already mitigated by Apple in iOS 10, so no new patch is needed to mitigate it. We recommend you upgrade to the latest iOS or tvOS available.
813<@ctwelve> That's just one, though
814<asd5a> and that is an issue that is unlikely to be adressed
815<@ctwelve> That's also why Apple devices use random MACs on WiFi when they're searching
816<@ctwelve> they don't use your hardware MAC until they request a connection
817<asd5a> the remote code execution vulnerabilities are just the steaming turd on top
818<@ctwelve> (this caused /all sorts/ of problems for wireless infrastructure when Apple started doing it)
819»» asd5a sighs
820<asd5a> there are so many industries that deserve to die
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822<captainmeta4> predatory loans come to mind
823<asd5a> https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/crooks-created-28-fake-ad-agencies-to-disguise-massive-malvertising-campaign/
824<+gonzobot> Title: Crooks Created 28 Fake Ad Agencies to Disguise Massive Malvertising Campaign
825<Ogre> byeah
826<Ogre> I've been experimenting with apple products recently
827<Ogre> I scrounged an older ipad mini.
828<Ogre> it's not bad.
829<Ogre> touch screen is a little flakey, but it has nice battery life.
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836<@RotoSequence> https://i.imgur.com/nCNBMHn.png
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840<goatsmith> https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/29/imagine-you-are-not-a-politician-yet-you-are-running-for-the-presidency/ Regardless of how right this is, it's...an interesting perspective to consider
841<+gonzobot> Title: Imagine You are Not a Politician, Yet You are Running For The Presidency… | The Last Refuge
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844<captainmeta4> yes
845<captainmeta4> one of the reasons Trump has such a following
846<captainmeta4> he essentially gave up a lavish multi bazillionaire lifestyle to go un-fuck Washington
847<captainmeta4> because it was the right thing to do
848<goatsmith> captainmeta4: not just that, but further down as it goes into his actions bilding relationships with an ostensible parallel intelligence network
849<goatsmith> outside of the current (swamp-controlled) one
850<Ogre>  ...
851<Ogre> http://www.wusa9.com/news/virginia-proposes-porn-watching-fee-to-prevent-human-trafficking/512769455
852<+gonzobot> Title: You may have to start paying the state to watch porn | WUSA9.com
853<Ogre> so, a 20 dollar fee to the state to be able to watch porn.
854<@Blackknight64> That's a pretty interesting article, goatsmith
855<Ogre> um
856<Ogre> goatsmith... what's wrong with that link?
857<Ogre> because when I click on it, I get
858<Ogre> https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/10/18/regardless-of-what-you-hear-right-on-track-open-for-business-on-october-1st-kathleen-sebelius-montage/
859<+gonzobot> Title: “Regardless of what you hear”…. “right on track”… “open for business”….  “on October 1st”….  (Kathleen Sebelius Montage) | The Last Refuge
860<Ogre> instead.
861<@Blackknight64> Weird.  Came up right on mine.  Sec, Ogre.
862<Ogre> Trump....subcontacted mossad?
863<@Blackknight64> https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/29/imagine-you-are-not-a-politician-yet-you-are-running-for-the-presidency/
864<+gonzobot> Title: Imagine You are Not a Politician, Yet You are Running For The Presidency… | The Last Refuge
865<@Blackknight64> Tons of speculation on what happened.
866<@Blackknight64> It's interesting.  Impossible to say if it happened, and a bit of a reach, but interesting.
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876<@ctwelve> Anyone gonna watch the SotU?
877<@ctwelve> I'm falling asleep so I suspect I won't be
878<theAncientOne> i probably will
879<theAncientOne> either that or I'll be flossing my toes.
880<Kralizec> I am
881<@ctwelve> I suppose I better
882<Kralizec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npz2zEJt2pc
883<+gonzobot> (Kralizec) State of the Union 2018 - length  - 2,521 views - Fox News on 2018.01.29
884<@ctwelve> And so it beginsâ„¢
885<@ctwelve> The audio treatment form the Whitehouse's official feed is /atrocious/
886<@ctwelve> Fox News is vastly better
887<@ctwelve> CAJUN NAVY
888<@ctwelve> TOTALLY
889<@ctwelve> we should do a drinking game for every time he says TOTALLY
890<@ctwelve> :P
891<@ctwelve> ...welp, Scalise is getting re-elected
892<@ctwelve> heh
893<Kralizec> Pelosi looks piiiised
894<@ctwelve> She looked that way last year, too
895<@RotoSequence> ctwelve, scalise? Relected? Huh?
896<@ctwelve> congressman Scalise
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898<@ctwelve> dat salt on the dem side lol
899<Kralizec> What's up with all the purple pins?
900<@ctwelve> I imagine it's protest against some terrible (imagined) crime Trump (rhetorically) committed 
901<Ogre> blarg
902<Ogre> this is taking forever.
903<CreatureCoby> Ogre: thats normal for SotU addresses
904»» @ctwelve fills CreatureCoby with aggressive puppies
905<CreatureCoby> :D
906»» CreatureCoby aggressively snuggles puppies
907<CreatureCoby> :/
908<Ogre> not SotU
909<CreatureCoby> why do they bring god into this
910<CreatureCoby> i mean
911<Ogre> I just got an alienware.
912<CreatureCoby> i guess it hits a core demographic
913<CreatureCoby> Ogre: ah
914<Ogre> and it's taking bloody forever to update.
915<CreatureCoby> lol sounds about right
916<@ctwelve> CreatureCoby: because God is an extremely important concept
917<@ctwelve> don't confuse God with religion
918<@ctwelve> they're not actually the same thing
919<CreatureCoby> oh no
920<CreatureCoby> I get that
921<@ctwelve> (this is a long discussion though)
922<CreatureCoby> yeah
923<@ctwelve> OH SHIT
924<@ctwelve> SALUTE FLAG
925<@ctwelve> STAND FOR ANTHEM
926<a_man_in_black> ? 
927<@ctwelve> Trump bringing the gentle cleansing fire kek
928<@ctwelve> I always feel sorry for the Justices in this event
929<@ctwelve> they're supposed to be completely apolitical
930<@ctwelve> so they can't react to basically /anything/
931<Ogre> veteran's getting choice in health care?
932<@ctwelve> That's something that's just been started
933<@ctwelve> but yeah, opening up network access in Tricare as I recall
934<Ogre> meh
935<Ogre> I'd like to see everyone over GS-11 in the VA lined up against a wall and shot, but I suppose this is an acceptable start.
936<@ctwelve> > "beautiful clean coal"
937<@ctwelve> bruh
938<@RotoSequence> Screw coal
939<Ogre> I'm not sure I'd call coal clean.
940<@RotoSequence> Except for steel making stock
941<Ogre> but net energy exporter is good.
942»» @ctwelve makes RotoSequence into steel
943<BrowserLurker> Fuck can we just move on from coal
944<BrowserLurker> is that too much to ask
945<Ogre> pelosi looks like she's got an angry, starving honey badger chained in her crotch.
946<BrowserLurker> (for energy use I mean, onbviously Industry Uber Alles)
947<@ctwelve> BrowserLurker: okay! Let's build nukes!
948<Ogre> is glorious.
949<BrowserLurker> ctwelve:  YES
950<BrowserLurker> PLEASE YES
951<Ogre> BrowserLurker - we need nukes for that. but we'll have to kill all the hippies first.
952<BrowserLurker> Cant we just put them in some sort of park
953<theAncientOne> nah, just wash them
954<BrowserLurker> where they'll be free to be shithead hippies and prance about in isolation
955<theAncientOne> that's like sunlight to vampires
956<BrowserLurker> and then presumably die of malnutrition
957<BrowserLurker> or someshit
958<BrowserLurker> This is unrelated
959<@ctwelve> To be fair
960<@ctwelve> a clean hippy is basically a form of free energy
961<Ogre> ...
962<@ctwelve> if you get two clean hippies close together
963<Ogre> that's like saying unicorn farts are an energy source.
964<@ctwelve> well
965<@ctwelve> they are
966<BrowserLurker> they can be, you just need to find some
967<@ctwelve> just not a very good one :D
968<Ogre> have you ever -seen- a clean hippie?
969<Ogre> a live, clean, hippie?
970<BrowserLurker> once.
971<BrowserLurker> Yes, once. only once I swear.
972<BrowserLurker> Dude is a teacher at my school
973<Ogre> And I don't mean the ones I have in the slaughtering cages out back.
974<BrowserLurker> Spraying them with a firehouse isn't cleaning them ogre.
975<@ctwelve> > slaughtering cages
976»» @ctwelve eyes Ogre warily
977<@ctwelve> Naw
978<BrowserLurker> ctwelve:  I know right? The stress makes the meat taste awful
979<@ctwelve> he use chlorine trifluoride BrowserLurker 
980<BrowserLurker> for best taste they need to be free range.
981<Ogre> they're not in the slaughtering cages very long...
982<@ctwelve> nothing else gets a hippy so squeaky clean
983<BrowserLurker> anywhore, I've been doing some reading on the eastern front of ww2 because I am ignorant of it compared to western front and africa campaign.
984<BrowserLurker> I loathe the soviet government with a passion, but I am starting to really admire the ferocity in which its soldiers fought.
985<BrowserLurker> I suppose that comes with having to fight for your very existance and the future of your people, what with the germans plans and all.
986<Ogre> I really want to see more shots of angry pelosi.
987<Ogre> cause I can totally fap to that.
988<Ogre> HA~
989<Ogre> lookit bernie.
990<Ogre> "Did I leave the stove on?"
991<Ogre> yeah, I'm being a dick.
992<@ctwelve> Oh my
993<@ctwelve> Trump went there
994<@RotoSequence> Went where?
995<Ogre> ooooh
996<@ctwelve> violent illegal aliens
997<Ogre> yeah
998<Ogre> well, he's not wrong.
999<@ctwelve> he's not
1000<@ctwelve> AND HE FORCED THE DEMOCRATS TO STAND
1001<@ctwelve> Good Christ
1002<@ctwelve> I don't think I've seen hardball like this in a long damn time
1003<Ogre> I literally have an erection right now.
1004<Ogre> ok, not literally.
1005<Ogre> still, this is some good stuff.
1006<Ogre> dunno who the blond is, but she looks pissed.
1007<BrowserLurker> https://pastebin.com/LMzYuFra
1008<+gonzobot> Title: Stalingrad - Pastebin.com
1009<BrowserLurker> interesting bits of this little article
1010<BrowserLurker> " Much of the city was quickly turned to rubble, although some factories continued production while workers joined in the fighting. The Stalingrad Tractor Factory continued to turn out T-34 tanks literally until German troops burst into the plant."
1011<BrowserLurker> >continuing to produce tanks until the enemy has to kick your door in because "fuck them."
1012<a_man_in_black> Man
1013<a_man_in_black> It's hard to overstate the sheer industrial effectiveness of a properly designed assembly line
1014<BrowserLurker> and don't forget unfathomable determination to kill someone
1015<Ogre> russian stoicism.
1016<Ogre> is a thing.
1017»» Ogre swills vodka.
1018<a_man_in_black> There's also a different life philosophy with most people from Russia that ive talked to
1019<Ogre> bored now.
1020<a_man_in_black> Every Russian immigrants I ever met believed this world is hell and only the dead are truly free
1021<Tehpillowstar> I love the stories of the Russian female snipers in World War 2
1022<a_man_in_black> To truly believe that gives the whole thought of death an entirely different meaning 
1023<Kralizec> THE WALL
1024<@ctwelve> Dems be SALTY
1025<BrowserLurker> ctwelve:  A N G E R Y
1026<Tehpillowstar> i dunno, i've seen some class A salt and cancer today...but it was internet drama not democrat drama
1027<Ogre> I have a brand new alienware, and I'm sitting here waiting for the damn thing to update.
1028<a_man_in_black> you kept the Alienware bloated os install instead of just wiping it and doing a clean one? 
1029<Ogre> dude, there's -nothing here-.
1030<Ogre> just the os install.
1031<BrowserLurker> was it DBAN'd?
1032<Ogre> nope
1033<@ctwelve> Ogre: how old is the laptop?
1034<Ogre> desktop.
1035<@ctwelve> because there may be some feature updates
1036<Ogre> and it was made in late 2017.
1037<Ogre> this is my first new computer I've ever owned.
1038<@ctwelve> Unlawful enemy combatants
1039<@ctwelve> YES
1040<@ctwelve> THANK YOU
1041<Ogre> ooh?
1042<Ogre> sorry, I got bored and wandered off.
1043<@RotoSequence> Unlawful enemy combatants?
1044<@ctwelve> yeah
1045<@ctwelve> no more catch and release, as it were, like we did under Obama
1046<@ctwelve> Because...CHRIST.
1047<@ctwelve> ...but I can't say any more :-/
1048<Ogre> what, we gonna just shoot them now?
1049<Ogre> I'm kinda ok with that.
1050<Tox> wait what
1051<Tox> who's gonna be treated as UECs
1052<@RotoSequence> Tox, in context, probably persons who didn't meet a specific set of criteria for identification as enemy combatants
1053<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/4h8p9aficbd01.jpg
1054<@RotoSequence> Their faces say a lot.
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1056<@RotoSequence> The cameras cut to them when he talked about low unemployment with black people (though to play the devil's advocate, there's no evidence that Trump has anything to take credit for there; the trendline for unemployment has continued uninterrupted for some time)
1057<@RotoSequence> And that was their faces when
1058<BrowserLurker> RotoSequence: the undeniable fact is that the trend -continued- under his presidency so far.
1059<BrowserLurker> So thats something at least.
1060<@RotoSequence> He hasn't broken a good thing
1061<@RotoSequence> So that's a thumbs up
1062<@RotoSequence> He hasn't made it better either though
1063<@RotoSequence> So it's a bit disingenuous to sing those praises
1064<BrowserLurker> Well, y'know, with all the doom and gloom
1065<BrowserLurker> and projections varying between 'alt-right death squads' to 'various forms of jimcrows ghost', I'm happy to take "shit isn't broken and seemingly is getting better"
1066<BrowserLurker> RotoSequence: and when you think about it
1067<BrowserLurker> if you play by the dems rules, you technically do have to sing praise when he doesnt break a good thing
1068<BrowserLurker> because their argument is that he's a reckless baffoon that will break anything he touches garunteed
1069<BrowserLurker> otherwise their chunk of criticisms of the man by their own logic fail.
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1071<BrowserLurker> "Well obviously he didn't break [trend]" -> Except you said with absolute certainty by virtue of his character and views that he WOULD break it. So which is it.
1072<BrowserLurker> s/didn't/wouldnt
1073<+gonzobot> Correction, <BrowserLurker> "Well obviously he wouldnt break [trend]" -> Except you said with absolute certainty by virtue of his character and views that he WOULD break it. So which is it.
1074<BrowserLurker> </2 cents>
1075<@RotoSequence> That's a fair point honestly
1076<@RotoSequence> But
1077<@RotoSequence> I also don't think it's unfair to say that it's not a big deal
1078<BrowserLurker> Oh absolutely not
1079<BrowserLurker> just a fun little thing that just occured to me
1080<@ctwelve> My overriding impression was that his teleprompter wasn't operating at the right speed
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1084<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/034zyyr2qbd01.png
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1086<%HaplessOperator> ctwelve: What's popping? 
1087<%HaplessOperator> I saw something about angry pelosi
1088<Kralizec> Maximum salt from the Democrats during the STOU address
1089<Ogre> heh
1090<Ogre> IT was enjoyable, watching pelosi squirm like her panties were stuffed with angry weasels.
1091<BrowserLurker> Ogre: g-d, I dont wanna imagine anything involving Pelosi's panties.
1092»» BrowserLurker gags
1093<@RotoSequence> Ogre, and a mouthful of lemons
1094<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/x7edot93cbd01.jpg
1095<BrowserLurker> RotoSequence:  [Groans in Soros]
1096<@RotoSequence> Phrasing!
1097<BrowserLurker> ...
1098<BrowserLurker> damnit
1099<Ogre> me and a mouthful of lemons inside pelosi's panties?
1100<Ogre> heh
1101<@RotoSequence> No, groaning in Soros :P
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1103<@RotoSequence> https://g.redditmedia.com/-8Fr4WkskniWOewIf1WlBsuxcfVmnBexGYIyma35XIo.gif?w=480&fm=mp4&mp4-fragmented=false&s=f9086ecc7159c4f14cfcb580c1d1f18a
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1162»» hub-na-west.snoonet.org sets modes (##HFYpolitics +bbbbbbbbbbbbb *!*@user/katzen radiator!*@* *!nospinzy@* *!Kommi@user/Kommi *!*@Snoonet-ksm.76o.c6ates.IP *!cR|mobil@Snoonet-9mj.3dc.r2fkog.IP *!watwerp@Snoonet-ap2.nnl.bpfq7c.IP *!*@muffinmedic.net *!john66534@Snoonet-ptn.f63.509e61.IP *!*@Snoonet-aop.dr9.piqo3g.IP redubious!*@* *!*@Snoonet-man.r3j.mo0l6b.IP *!*@user/Doomsdayrs)
1163»» hub-na-west.snoonet.org sets modes (##HFYpolitics +bbbb *!*@Snoonet-p0c.m6r.hsgac9.IP *!*@Snoonet-309.oc4.pasd0c.IP *!*@Snoonet-dd5.oqd.hsgac9.IP LilPizza!*@*)
1164»» hub-na-west.snoonet.org has changed the topic to: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<BREAKING NEWS  ++ NUNES MEMO ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
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1169<@RotoSequence> https://i.imgur.com/MxgnVqT.jpg
1170»» You are now known as Snoo4681
1171<@RotoSequence> Huh. I didn't realize Seth Rich was Jewish
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1175<Ogre> he was?
1176<Ogre> huh
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1192<TheGreekOwl> ...am I white?
1193<Ogre> I have -no idea-
1194<Ogre> what do you mean "am I white?"
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1198»» Now talking on ##HFYpolitics
1199»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics is: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<BREAKING NEWS  ++ NUNES MEMO ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
1200»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics set by ctwelve!sid54852@HFY/the.lore.seeker at Mon Jan 29 19:42:18 2018
1201<@Patriarchy> [GamingWolfie] I am the Archwolf; High Prophet to the Potato. The Bringer of the Starchy Word, the Purveyor of Order. Kneel before me: http://i.imgur.com/K4OVGW2.png
1202»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o GamingWolfie|Zzz)
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1231»» ranger.snoonet.org sets modes (##HFYpolitics +hhho nightinphone fourbags HaplessOperator ctwelve)
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1235»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +v gonzobot)
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1247<VAE_work> TheGreekOwl  - I'd say you are, if you're a normal Greek, except uh, you're one of the people that SJW bullshit can't really classify well
1248<VAE_work> just like all of slavs
1249<VAE_work> so by a normal, non-racist person's definition you are lol
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1253<Ogre> well, that was odd.
1254<Ogre> so... my blood sugar's 350.
1255<Ogre> I had to drop two sticks of nph
1256<Ogre> I"mm a sit here for a bit, and make sure I don't bottom out.
1257»» Snoo39099 is now known as Statistics
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1259<VAE_work> that sucks
1260<VAE_work> also
1261<VAE_work> https://i.imgur.com/KmuVbDc.png
1262<VAE_work> this comic is basically everything you need to know about migrant crisis
1263<VAE_work> and I'm not even sure it's what the author intended
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1265<VAE_work> https://hiddenlolcdn.com/i/218285.png
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1268<kaiden333> Did we have a Trump state of the union discussion?
1269»» You are now known as GamingWolfie
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1273»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h HaplessOperator)
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1283<captainmeta4> I havne't seen it
1284<captainmeta4> yet
1285<Tox> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/30/trump-russia-collusion-fbi-cody-shearer-memo?CMP=fb_gu sigh.
1286<+gonzobot> Title: Second Trump-Russia dossier being assessed by FBI | US news | The Guardian
1287<katiedid> GEOTUS: Americans are dreamers too.
1288<katiedid> SloppyJoe: Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for people who aren't a part of your country.
1289<katiedid> HaplessOperator: https://i.redd.it/gajn5zdo3ed01.jpg
1290<Tox> >bygone era
1291<Tox> also
1292<Tox> wait
1293<Tox> church, family, police, military, and the national anthem are "bygone" now? What terrible mad universe do you live in, lady
1294<katiedid> She thinks because racism was a thing in the 50s, anything from that era is now tainted
1295<%HaplessOperator> What is #SOTU
1296<katiedid> Some founding fathers were slave owners? Fuck them, fuck everything they ever did, fuck the US
1297<katiedid> State of the Union
1298<Tox> HaplessOperator: State Of--yes
1299<%HaplessOperator> Oh, derp
1300<Tox> katiedid: founding fathers were white slaveowners so fuck all whites
1301<Tox> ugh
1302<Tox> like
1303<Tox> no thanks, miss me with it
1304<katiedid> Also
1305<katiedid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfn_sAtozmI&feature=youtu.be
1306<+gonzobot> (katiedid) Trump on memo release: "100%" #ReleaseTheMemo #StateOfTheUnion - length 12s - 732 likes, 2 dislikes (99.7%) - 22,681 views - Thug Life New Shit on 2018.01.31
1307<Tox> yeah
1308<Tox> it's happening apparently
1309<Tox> and we'll have reputable news sites to triangulate it, Mr Schiff, you shitlord.
1310<Tox> hh
1311<%HaplessOperator> katiedid: TWO HOURS
1312<katiedid> Yush
1313<katiedid> https://i.redd.it/m9jap92gobd01.gif
1314<%HaplessOperator> Hahahahahahaha
1315<%HaplessOperator> Look at those mad assholes
1316<katiedid> http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/01/30/joy-reid-nobody-that-doesnt-watch-fox-news-has-ever-heard-of-ms-13/
1317<+gonzobot> Title: Joy Reid: 'Nobody That Doesn't Watch Fox News Has Ever Heard of' MS-13 - Breitbart
1318<katiedid> Also, goddamn
1319<katiedid> I just started watching the SotU
1320<Tox> how is it'
1321<katiedid> I feel like I shouldn't be surprised
1322<katiedid> But holy shit, the disrespect from the democrat side of the room
1323<katiedid> They refuse to clap or stand up for anything he says
1324<Tox> What do they do that's massively disrespectful?
1325<katiedid> Seriously, I'm 1:30 in
1326<katiedid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuJhzY87NhA
1327<+gonzobot> (katiedid) President Trump Delivers the State of the Union Address - length 1h 20m 33s - 1,527 likes, 83 dislikes (94.8%) - 12,568 views - The White House on 2018.01.31
1328<katiedid> Watch for two minutes
1329<katiedid> And you'll see what I mean
1330<Tox> geez, hardly anyone's clappping
1331<Tox> and they look like they want to be anywhere but there
1332<katiedid> One of the congressmen actually walked out when the republicans started chanting USA! USA! at some point in the speech
1333<Tox> Wow
1334<katiedid> Ah, watching a bit more, they're realizing what assholes they look like if they don't clap and stand up for certain things
1335<Tox> also I can see exactly what's going through Petty Officer Leppert's mind right now
1336<Tox> "I was doing my job, I don't know why I'm here, aaaaaaaa"
1337<katiedid> Yup, lol
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1340---» AnotherL- (AnotherLurk@Snoonet-d20.j3t.oums5c.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
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1342»» AnotherL- is now known as AnotherLurker
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1344<@ctwelve> Yeah. That’s pretty par for the course in the era of derangement syndrome
1345---» RotoSequence (RotoSequenc@user/RotoSequence) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
1346<@Patriarchy> [RotoSequence] [Bronyism Intensifies]
1347»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o RotoSequence)
1348<Tox> you don't turn down an invitation to attend a SOTU though, so, Petty Officer Leppert didn't have much choice
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1351<Tox> also
1352<Tox> holy shit
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1356<AnotherLurker> katiedid, ping
1357<katiedid> ...
1358<katiedid> You're still AnotherL-
1359<Tox> hahaha holy shit.
1360<AnotherLurker> welp
1361<Tox> ctwelve: when Trump was talking about setting aside differences and seeking common ground
1362<katiedid> ...
1363<katiedid> You know what it might be, AnotherL-?
1364<Tox> did you notice how he swung his body to the right
1365<katiedid> Might be the server a_man_in_black and I are on
1366<AnotherLurker> Possibly.
1367<Tox> standby then
1368<@ctwelve>  It is not for me AnotherLurker
1369<Tox> katiedid: you and a_man_in_black do not share a server
1370<katiedid> I give up
1371<katiedid> I have no idea
1372<@ctwelve> AnotherLurker: log out and log back in
1373<@ctwelve> ?
1374<AnotherLurker> Okay, I'll give it a try
1375<AnotherLurker> heres hoping this doesnt bork my client again
1376<Tilted> AnotherL-: Your name is cut off for me, too
1377<katiedid> Tilted: That's because you're a cool kid like us
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1379<katiedid> https://i.redd.it/xy9mqhu5xdd01.png
1380<katiedid> "If CBS was forced to be this honest you know how good the numbers must really be"
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1382<@ctwelve> And right on cue... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/31/train-carrying-lawmakers-to-gop-retreat-involved-in-accident.html
1383<+gonzobot> Title: Train carrying lawmakers to GOP retreat involved in accident | Fox News
1384<@ctwelve> I mean, accidents happen. But.
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1391<Jalapenyo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8IVI0sZ6F8
1392<+gonzobot> (Jalapenyo) good news everyone! - length 8s - 408 likes, 5 dislikes (98.8%) - 142,279 views - Vilius Puidokas on 2009.11.01
1393<Jalapenyo> http://reason.com/blog/2018/01/30/libertarian-party-achieves-major-party-s
1394<+gonzobot> Title: Libertarian Party Achieves "Major Party" Status in New Mexico - Hit & Run : Reason.com
1395---» CreatureCoby (uid76249@user/CreatureCoby) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
1396---» theAncientOne (uid118176@Snoonet-tur6pd.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
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1402»» ctwelve is now known as Clippy
1403»» Clippy is now known as ctwelve
1404»» Snoo43360 is now known as mirai
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1407<@RotoSequence> https://twitter.com/RepJeffDenham/status/958746186495741953/photo/1
1408<+gonzobot> (RotoSequence) ✓@RepJeffDenham (Jeff Denham): .@maryaliceparks Front of the train heading to the Greenbrier https://t.co/QGUxUbo8m7 (1 hour and 33 minutes ago)
1409<@RotoSequence> A dump truck was on the tracks at a crossing
1410<Adradis> That dastardly Killary! Should have loaded the truck with explosives if she wanted to be thorough. /kidding
1411<Adradis> Haven't seen a ton of info on the crash; any deaths, or just injuries?
1412<a_man_in_black> one of the people in the truck died, but nobody on the train
1413<CreatureCoby> why the flying fuck
1414<CreatureCoby> are people on the tracks
1415<CreatureCoby> like get out of the car and MOVE
1416<a_man_in_black> because people's higher functions shut down and survival mode kicks in, and survival mode can't process past the next couple of actions without a shitload of training and experience
1417<a_man_in_black> so they panic and try to start the vehicle
1418<a_man_in_black> or thrash around trying to get out, and can't do it
1419<a_man_in_black> the brain overloads the mind with DO SOMETHING
1420<CreatureCoby> ah
1421<a_man_in_black> and the body goes OK OK BUT DO WHAT!?!?!?!?
1422<AnotherLurker> "JUST DO- *death*""
1423<Tox> it's the primordial little lizard we all have buried near our brainstem
1424<a_man_in_black> yup
1425<Tox> it doesn't know anything about modern society
1426<Adradis> I'm glad that the body count for the accident is as low as it is
1427<a_man_in_black> it's why people can't manage to unbuckle their seatbelt when the car goes into the water
1428<a_man_in_black> the instinct is to get it unlocked
1429<a_man_in_black> but the mind is so overloaded it can't remember the steps
1430<Adradis> train looks less damaged than I expected for a garbage truck though
1431<@RotoSequence> http://i.magaimg.net/img/2iqg.png
1432<@RotoSequence> The truck overturned and spilled the refuse everywhere
1433<@RotoSequence> Looks like its pretty lightly built
1434<@RotoSequence> Especially compared to the Bank Vault on Wheels that is a locomotive
1435<Adradis> Ah, yeah. Guess trash trucks are less 'sturdy' than they appear
1436<Adradis> since they do have a nice compressible hollow space in the middle
1437<@RotoSequence> http://i.magaimg.net/img/2iqf.png
1438<Adradis> Ah. yeah. Thanks for the pictures.
1439<Adradis> Kept thinking trash truck instead of dump truck, and kept missing it in the caption.
1440<Adradis> Clearly I need more sleep
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1444<Ogre> I see the media machine is going nuts.
1445<Jalapenyo> I'm just waiting for the viewership numbers to be settled
1446<@RotoSequence> When is it not?
1447<Jalapenyo> They're jumping all over the place and it's driving me nuts
1448<@Blackknight64> I dunno, but I'm hearing a 75% approval rating of the SOTU.  That's pretty dope.
1449<Ogre> that is  a high number.
1450<Ogre> and it's as low as the media can make it.
1451<Ogre> which makes me wonder. if 75% approval is the 'massaged' number... what are the real ones.
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1453<theAncientOne> keep in mind that the SOTU is usually watched by people that support the President anyway
1454<theAncientOne> Obama had pretty high numbers by those that watched his speeches too
1455<theAncientOne> iirc
1456<Adradis> Approval ratings I hear was basically just down the party line
1457<Adradis> Republicans approved, democrats the opposite
1458<@RotoSequence> Republicans overwhelmingly approved, Independents approved, Democrats were mixed
1459<@RotoSequence> 47% approval from Democrats
1460<@RotoSequence> 75% Independents
1461<@RotoSequence> 97% Republicans
1462<Ogre> yup
1463<Ogre> I am amused by this new memo.
1464<Ogre> they're still on the pissing thing.
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1466<Ogre> Trump's been banging supermodels his entire adult life, he's clearly got a thing for tall, -perfect- eastern euro women.
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1468<Ogre> and he's gonna go sideways for some cheap russian street strange, all of a sudden?
1469<@ctwelve> It's almost like the people writing such stuff aren't alpha males and don't know what high-level scoring is all about
1470<@ctwelve> but normal people instinctively do
1471<@ctwelve> which is why this narrative fell apart except with the Party faithful
1472<Jalapenyo> >he's clearly got a thing for tall perfect eastern euro women
1473<Jalapenyo> don't we all?
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1475<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, you saw that article where buzzfeed writers turned out to have lest testosterone than a 100 year old man
1476<AnotherLurker> right?
1477<AnotherLurker> https://i.imgur.com/HmbRrjg.jpg
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1479»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h nightinphone)
1480<Jalapenyo> pfft
1481<AnotherLurker> fuck one of them literally is 1/3 of what he should be at
1482<AnotherLurker> thats actaully concerning as hell
1483<@ctwelve> https://hotair.com/archives/2018/01/31/michael-wolff-nikki-haley-seems-embraced-accusations-affair-trump/
1484<+gonzobot> Title: Michael Wolff: Nikki Haley 'seems to have embraced' rumors she had an affair with Trump
1485<@ctwelve> its genuinely not surprising though
1486<@ctwelve> male testosterone is as much dependent on activity,  diet, and environment as it is on your genetics
1487<@ctwelve> if they were to eat more clean meat and gym more often, I can /guarantee/ you their test would spike
1488<@ctwelve> (and consume less soy, and avoid plastic exposures too)
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1494<@RotoSequence> Clean meat meaning?
1495<@ctwelve> Basically not garbage-tier cheap shit loaded with hormones
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1497<@ctwelve> so get meat from a grocer 
1498<@ctwelve> or stick to good chicken etc
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1503<Tehpillowstar> Weirdly I probably expect Eugene (the Korean dude) to be the one eating the most soy, cuz he's Korean, but that's on the assumption that he eats a Korean diet
1504<Tehpillowstar> And there's lots of soy in the Korean diet, just from the condiments alone
1505<Tehpillowstar> ctwelve, what have you say on that?
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1507<@ctwelve> soy has a known but somewhat tenuous link between estrogenizing compounds
1508<@ctwelve> it's also known asian men have resistance to this
1509<@ctwelve> (and is part of why they respond so well to steroids, too)
1510»» goatsmith is now known as Testostergoat
1511<Testostergoat> fermented soy sources, like soy sauce, are also significantly lower in phytoestrogens
1512<Testostergoat> the process breaks them down
1513<Testostergoat> soy sauce is low enough in them to not /really/ need to concern yourself with it
1514<@ctwelve> ^^
1515<@ctwelve> it's mostly raw soy protein and soy milk that's the concern
1516<@RotoSequence> Which is good because soy sauce is great :D
1517<@ctwelve> and then only if it's a habitual source of food in your diet
1518<Testostergoat> if soy is your primary protein source, you're Pretty Fucked
1519<Testostergoat> (if you're a dude)
1520<Testostergoat> if soy is an occasional "hey, I like paneer tikka masala", then you can even it out
1521<Testostergoat> same for the phytoestrogens in, say, beer
1522<@ctwelve> well, more IPAs and over-hopped beers
1523<@ctwelve> but yeah
1524<Testostergoat> like, I still do "beer workouts"
1525<Testostergoat> and IPAs are some of my favorites!
1526<Testostergoat> buuuuut
1527<Testostergoat> that's a thing you gotta consider
1528<@RotoSequence> http://abc7.com/hundreds-arrested-in-human-trafficking-crackdown/3007899/
1529<+gonzobot> Title: Human-trafficking crackdown: 510 arrested, 56 rescued in California | abc7.com
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1531<Tehpillowstar> ctwelve: i didn't know about the resistance thing, weird
1532<@ctwelve> well, it has a mixed bag of effects
1533<@ctwelve> Asian men tend to have lower natural test than European men, particularly those of germanic descent, BUT
1534<@ctwelve> they also tend to respond to both hormone therapy and diet/exercise modification more readily
1535<@ctwelve> which is why some of the most impressive bodybuilders are...Korean
1536<@ctwelve> but to add yet another wrinkle to it, Germanic peoples are better framed for strength sports in the first place
1537<@ctwelve> so really, no point getting too wrapped up in it :D
1538«--- gonzobot (gonzo@snoonet/bot/gonzobot) has Quit (Quit: be right back just ran out of tide pods.)
1539<isoraqathedh> See, they have to be "Tide pods". They're not just "laundry capsules", like I learnt they were.
1540<@RotoSequence> They've got the Brand Awareness game down pat
1541<Adradis> Have you seen the video of the damage those suckers will do?
1542<Adradis> Turns out inhaling concentrated chemicals is very fast /surprised
1543<isoraqathedh> No, and depending on what it actually is I may not actually want to see it.
1544<Adradis> Can't find it offhand now
1545<Adradis> but in short, it ruptures in kids mouth, he instinctively inhales, and his lungs are an instant mess
1546<isoraqathedh> Lungs are of course not fabric.
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1548»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +v gonzobot)
1549<Adradis> Guess that's the nature of hyper condensing chemicals, then putting them in a bright packaging.
1550<isoraqathedh> See, I don't know what to do here. It can't be black as death, because that doesn't look "clean" (I think it's one of those psychological hacks/quirks that you have to work around wtih marketing).
1551<isoraqathedh> But if it was that black, it would be less appealing and therefore you won't be tempted to eat it as much.
1552<isoraqathedh> (I always worry about my laundry capsules exploding in my hand.)
1553<Adradis> Yeah. It's one of those "Welp, we need to redesign it to look less candy like" issues
1554<Adradis> Doesn't help that the internet is helping fan the flames at this point
1555»» Tehpillowstar stares at the article she has been reading
1556<Tehpillowstar> ....
1557<Tehpillowstar> I don't know where I got this
1558<Adradis> Tehpillowstar: https://i.redd.it/dsl107rr0fd01.jpg Emergency kitty supply
1559<Tehpillowstar> aaaaaaaaaaaah
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1561<CTMGame> You know, I just noticed something interesting
1562<CTMGame> The US Democratic Party is a member of the Progressive Alliance, a center-left social-democratic association.
1563<CTMGame> The Young Democrats however are a member of the rather centrist (although going from center-left to center-rigth) Liberal International
1564<CTMGame> Which means that Young Democrats ought to be right of the party establishment.
1565<CTMGame> Which, seeing as how the 2017 nomination process turned out, probably doesn't reflect reality.
1566<Adradis> I think the internal result is that while the party itself tends to lean 'left' (By US standards), it's fairly centrist (by world standards)
1567<Adradis> and the younger folks actually pull closer to World-Left
1568<Adradis> But, I haven't actually dug into those metrics recently, so I may be off.
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1571<@RotoSequence> For the US I don't think the Democrat's problem is being too extreme left or right
1572<@RotoSequence> More...
1573<Ogre> vastly corrupt?
1574<@RotoSequence> Being Un-American, for lack of a more descriptive but similarly consie explanation
1575<@RotoSequence> Brazenly corrupt, hypocritical, capitalizing openly on the continued suppression of the little guy
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1578<VAE> Yep
1579<VAE> also I've read the most annoying formulation today
1580<VAE> "When my coworker was kidnapped by the ICE"
1581<VAE> like, I wasn't aware they asked for ransom
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1583<CTMGame> Immigration laws are better at inflating wage levels than unions ever were.
1584<CTMGame> While also making the country as a whole poorer... more than unions.
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1586<a_man_in_black> where, in the US, or in other countries?
1587<CTMGame> The effect of strict immigration laws is mathematically equivalent to high taxes and high social welfare.
1588<CTMGame> a_man_in_black: In basically every country on earth
1589<a_man_in_black> because i vehemenently disagree
1590<CTMGame> https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/wiki/faq_immigration
1591<CTMGame> http://www.igmchicago.org/surveys/low-skilled-immigrants
1592<a_man_in_black> if you look at just the immigration laws themselves, you can paint it that way
1593<CTMGame> Economists agree with me here
1594<a_man_in_black> you also need to consider other factors
1595<a_man_in_black> such as enforcement of said laws, and other areas of the law such as the hiring of workers, laws that affect employers, etc
1596<CTMGame> Immigrants don't commit crimes in an outsize manner: https://www.nap.edu/read/21746/chapter/9#327
1597<+gonzobot> Title: 7 Sociocultural Dimensions of Immigrant Integration | The Integration of Immigrants into American Society | The National Academies Press
1598»» Jalapenyo is now known as Jalapenyo|Drank
1599<CTMGame> Strict immigration laws reduce the labour pool so much we hardly need to talk of other factors though.
1600<a_man_in_black> i'm not so much for "stricter" immigration laws, as i'm for the enforcement of laws we already have
1601<a_man_in_black> also
1602<a_man_in_black> there is merit in reducing the labor pool to drive wages up
1603<CTMGame> No there is not
1604<a_man_in_black> because i'm honest, i'll say it outright
1605<CTMGame> The market is less efficient and in the long term, everyone is poorer off
1606<a_man_in_black> i don't care about other countries all that much
1607<a_man_in_black> when it comes to wages
1608<CTMGame> a_man_in_black: You don't have to!
1609<CTMGame> Emigration is bad for a country.
1610<a_man_in_black> that's the opposite of what you were just saying
1611<CTMGame> By allowing the citizens of one country to emigrate to you, you are (in theory) actively harming that country
1612<a_man_in_black> oh
1613<CTMGame> a_man_in_black: Immigration good, Emigration bad
1614<a_man_in_black> it's bad for the other country, lol
1615<a_man_in_black> i disagree there too
1616<CTMGame> a_man_in_black: It's like with two rooms, you leave one and enter the other but you only take a single step
1617<a_man_in_black> the ammount of money that gets funneled out of this country and sent home by illegal immigrants is a pretty steady drain on our total economy
1618<CTMGame> a_man_in_black: That's not how money transfers work
1619<a_man_in_black> i'm not talking about legal immigrants and above board, legal money transfers
1620<@Blackknight64> That's...  pretty much exactly how money transfers work, CTMGame 
1621<a_man_in_black> illegal immigrants want to come here
1622<CTMGame> Blackknight64: On a literal level yes
1623<CTMGame> In the same way a tremendous trade deficit is bad
1624<a_man_in_black> in order to do so, they make deals with organized "coyote" groups
1625<CTMGame> Which the US has in such a giant amount that any further discussion of out-of-country money flows is moot
1626<a_man_in_black> ...
1627<CTMGame> The US has a trade deficit of half a trillion dollars
1628<a_man_in_black> and better credit than the rest of the world combined
1629<a_man_in_black> because we never miss payments, or however it works
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1631<CTMGame> These people left their labour in the US though
1632<a_man_in_black> i can't exactly wrap my head around trade deficits
1633<a_man_in_black> but i know they aren't all evil and shit
1634<CTMGame> And since in a capitalist system, the value of a person's labour exceeds their compensation for it, the immigrants still are a net benefit to the US
1635<@Blackknight64> Sort of
1636<a_man_in_black> also, i wasn't saying the money they sent out of th e country was a huge percentage of our gdp, it's just a noticable one
1637<@Blackknight64> There's all kinds of reasons that it isn't, actually
1638<CTMGame> Alice comes here, with her work valued at 20000$ a year. She's only paid 16k$, out of which a percentage is taxed anyway
1639<CTMGame> She had to spend some of her income domestically, so she only sends say 5k$ home
1640<a_man_in_black> that's not how illegal immigration and undocumented workers work anyway man
1641<CTMGame> a_man_in_black: Yeah, because you don't let them pay taxes
1642<a_man_in_black> no, they /can/ pay taxes depending on where they work
1643<CTMGame> So the US national economy is left with 15k$ surplus value
1644<a_man_in_black> we're talking past each other man
1645<a_man_in_black> i know /many/ illegal immigrants
1646<a_man_in_black> it is /not/ the same as legal ones
1647<@Blackknight64> ^
1648<a_man_in_black> for one nthing
1649<a_man_in_black> most of them, and all of the women, get on welfare, and if they work, they get under the table jobs
1650<CTMGame> Solution: Let people gain residency by walking up to the border and say "I want to work here"
1651<CTMGame> If they find work, great!
1652<CTMGame> If they don't, kick them out again!
1653<a_man_in_black> not that simple
1654<a_man_in_black> it's an issue with dozens of parts to it
1655<CTMGame> Or instead, replace welfare with NIT
1656<@Blackknight64> ...lol uh do you realize how easy it is to disappear into the US?
1657<CTMGame> Then you don't even need to kick unemployed immigrats out
1658<CTMGame> Blackknight64: And what will the "disappeared" do?
1659<CTMGame> Work for money and consume a portion of their income, investing the other
1660<CTMGame> If you let them, which you should.
1661<@Blackknight64> Nothing gets invested dude.
1662<@Blackknight64> You're looking at it ass backwards
1663<a_man_in_black> nothing goes back into the economy
1664<@ctwelve> You’re looking at it like a wealthy European
1665<a_man_in_black> ok ctmgame, if i may do in depth for a second
1666<@ctwelve> And spending their conceptual money the way they would
1667<a_man_in_black> the way illegal immigrants operate here
1668<@ctwelve> What actually happens
1669<a_man_in_black> you get 20 hispanics that come in
1670<@ctwelve> Is an employer pays them out of “petty cash”
1671<a_man_in_black> they all stay in a single apartment or trailer, splitting that 200 bucks a month 20 ways
1672<@ctwelve> And that cash is immediately wired back home
1673---» theAncientOne (uid118176@Snoonet-tur6pd.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
1674<@ctwelve> It never sees taxation
1675<@Blackknight64> ^
1676<@ctwelve> And it does not stay here
1677<@ctwelve> The migrant workers spend only enough to survive
1678<@ctwelve> Always cash
1679<a_man_in_black> the rest of their money aside from food, they either send back to families, or they pay it to the organization that smuggled them into the U
1680<a_man_in_black> US
1681<@ctwelve> And always with people who have strong incentive not to report
1682<a_man_in_black> and this is at the /nice/ end of the illegal immigration spectrum
1683<@ctwelve> The most you get is sales tax
1684<@ctwelve> Theoretical constructions are fine
1685<CTMGame> It doesn't matter. They could live off air and set fire to their wages. They will still have brought surplus value to the national economy.
1686<a_man_in_black> ...
1687<@ctwelve> Not really.
1688<CTMGame> If they didn't bring surplus value, then the employer was stupid
1689<a_man_in_black> that's a delusion and you are beyond logical reasonable discussion on this topic, so i'm out
1690<@ctwelve> You’re making the Rational Actor mistake
1691<theAncientOne> particularly not when they start making anchor children.
1692<CTMGame> No sane person would pay someone else more for their work than it is worth
1693<CTMGame> Especially for manual labour
1694<CTMGame> As opposed to, say, art or something
1695<@ctwelve> You are correct. Which is why illegal and unchecked immigration is a bad thing
1696<@ctwelve> Because a given economy is not an open system
1697<CTMGame> How many illegal immigrants are artists exactly?
1698<@ctwelve> An economy is a porous thing. And neighboring economies are often hugely different
1699<theAncientOne> Quite a few in my experience. The difference being that few of them make a living at it.
1700<@ctwelve> In the case of Mexico in particular, they are straight up third world
1701<@Blackknight64> Annnnd in comes the social worker to the rescue!
1702»» theAncientOne blows a trumpet
1703<@ctwelve> And the effect is to bleed value from the developed economy into the developing one
1704<@ctwelve> Which, fine! But.
1705<@ctwelve> There is a limit to how much you can permit that
1706<@ctwelve> Before it starts to bleed you dry
1707<@ctwelve> What’s worse, it forms dependency
1708<@ctwelve> Mexico is a corrupt shithole
1709<@ctwelve> And will always be so
1710<@ctwelve> Until we stop subsidizing their citizenry
1711<@ctwelve> And we do, in no small part
1712<Jalapenyo|Drank> not if ^
1713<Jalapenyo|Drank> 's what I was gonna say
1714<Jalapenyo|Drank> end the war on drugs, break the cartels, watch Mexico get its shit together
1715<@ctwelve> Open border and labor systems only make sense between comparable nations and economies
1716<@ctwelve> Us and Canada? Fuck yeah, gimme moar
1717<@ctwelve> We have a net trade balance, in fact
1718<@RotoSequence> Wealth is fickle. It can be created, it can be destroyed, it can be zero sum, it can be multiplicative, but a lot of it hangs in tenuous balance on how that money is spent
1719<@ctwelve> Us and Mexico? That’s a charity case.
1720<CTMGame> Where is the charity exactly?
1721»» theAncientOne raises hand, requesting the floor for a moment
1722<@ctwelve> So the industrialized nations of Western Europe? Makes huge sense.
1723<CTMGame> People being paid for their work is not charity.
1724<@ctwelve> Floor!
1725<@ctwelve> To theAncientOne
1726<@RotoSequence> theAncientOne has the floor
1727<theAncientOne> Ok - so
1728»» @ctwelve gibs conch
1729<theAncientOne> I live and work in this environment, and would like to fill in some blanks that Isee getting missed in this argument quite a bit
1730<theAncientOne> I want to acknowledge at the outset - CTMGame is not entirely wrong
1731<theAncientOne> nor is ctwelve
1732<VAE> http://thefreethoughtproject.com/dea-drug-dealers-neighborhoods/
1733<+gonzobot> Title: DEA Just Admitted It Lets Drugs Into Communities & Pushes Them on Citizens
1734<VAE> this might interest you a_man_in_black
1735<@RotoSequence> VAE, theAncientOne has the floor atm
1736<@RotoSequence> (just fyi)
1737<VAE> k
1738<theAncientOne> but there's another side to this issue that is far, far worse/more important/troublesome
1739<VAE> I just alt=-tabbed in sorry
1740<theAncientOne> And that is the combined issue of migrant farm work and human trafficking
1741<theAncientOne> CTMGame is right in that there is a use for an ongoing flood of unchecked migration in a sense, because what it does is provide a cheap source of labor at far below prevailing wages for certain unskilled forms of labor
1742<theAncientOne> for instance - migrant farm work
1743<theAncientOne> the western US has capitalized on this fact for /decades/
1744<theAncientOne> The dark side of that, however, is that there quickly becomes an incentive to extend that legitimate farm work to other businesses - people tend to be entrepreneurial
1745<theAncientOne> You start with importing laborers for one thing, and it quickly becomes something else - hey, they're already sneaking across the border, why not have them mule drugs?
1746<theAncientOne> What you end up with is several fold - you have artificially depressed labor in that field, combined with a burgeoning criminal enterprise
1747<theAncientOne> then, while they're here, they take advantage of birthright citizenship
1748<theAncientOne> and they have kids
1749<theAncientOne> now, if you deport them, the kids can stay here, and they have a compelling reasonto be allowed back
1750»» theAncientOne relinquishes the floor
1751<@RotoSequence> The floor is now open
1752<@ctwelve> Which Americans often assume is known
1753<@ctwelve> And that’s a mistake
1754<theAncientOne> I hasten to add by the way that they also capitalize on use of public assistance to stay.
1755<VAE> Sorry again. And TAO is spot on.
1756<@RotoSequence> Also I hate that book ctwelve :P
1757<VAE> Plus, 
1758<@ctwelve> Drives a lot of the hostility in the argument
1759<@ctwelve> The broad concept is true CTMGame
1760<VAE> you know
1761<@ctwelve> In a world economy I would have no objections to your statements
1762<VAE> economy isn't just about productio
1763<@ctwelve> But we don’t have such a thing and I think human nature means we never will
1764<VAE> fact is, these migrants a) don't spend their low wages here and b) depress the cost of labour
1765<@RotoSequence> Reduced labor costs isn't a win for everyone every time always
1766<CTMGame> a is not entirely true and b is good
1767<VAE> therefore, there's less spending also from the locals who now have to compete with sixteen-per-appartment mexicans
1768<@RotoSequence> Labor itself is dependent on demand for its existence
1769<@ctwelve> No it is not CTMGame
1770<VAE> b isn't good
1771<@ctwelve> That actively makes people poorer
1772<@ctwelve> It’s straight up wealth redistribution
1773<@Blackknight64> ^
1774<VAE> because that's how you get a) social unrest and b) crisis
1775<VAE> because when people cant' afford to buy what you make, demand falters
1776<VAE> then you end up firing people
1777<VAE> and look, there's more people with no money out there
1778<@RotoSequence> Its the Pentagon's acquisition death spiral in reverse
1779<@ctwelve> Also, economies are not sciences
1780<VAE> who can't buy shit
1781<CTMGame> Labour costs make up the largest percentage of prices
1782<VAE> it's a positive feedback loop
1783<@ctwelve> They’re largely powered by unicorn farts
1784<@ctwelve> Meaning, attitude, animal spirit, and optimism
1785<CTMGame> But there is also a spiral into the other way
1786<@RotoSequence> CTMGame, and what does consumer goods fuel?
1787<@ctwelve> The emotional state of a people is a major contributor to an economy
1788<CTMGame> Lower costs mean higher consumption
1789<@Blackknight64> Cash flows out of the local economy and out of the local government.
1790<@RotoSequence> Frivolties on one hand
1791<VAE> And the spiral going the other way starts with ...
1792<@RotoSequence> Vital components on the other hand
1793<CTMGame> Higher consumptions means either higher wages or more employment
1794<@ctwelve> RotoSequence: maybe start voicing people
1795<@RotoSequence> If those vital goods aren't made locally you are enriching other economies for your necessities
1796<@ctwelve> I need to shower lol
1797<CTMGame> People spend money on what they want to spend money.
1798<VAE> CTMgame not when the lower costs come from your biggest social clas bringing home less money
1799<VAE> because ,you know
1800<VAE> rich people save, poor people spend
1801<@RotoSequence> And some spending is based on percieved need rather than want
1802<VAE> yep
1803<@ctwelve> CTMGame: can I ask you something?
1804<CTMGame> RotoSequence: There is no difference, only social convention
1805<@RotoSequence> CTMGame, no
1806<@ctwelve> Lemme have the floor
1807<CTMGame> VAE: If poor people spend their money, they reintroduce it back into the economy.
1808<CTMGame> Okay
1809»» CTMGame yields
1810<VAE> yep
1811<VAE> exactly
1812<VAE> which doesn't happen when migrants send it home
1813»» AnotherLurker hits VAE with the quiet stick
1814<@RotoSequence> ctwelve has the floor
1815<VAE> k
1816<@ctwelve> CTMGame: have you ever lived such that your entire paycheck save, say, 10€ was claimed by life necessities?
1817<CTMGame> No.
1818<a_man_in_black> heh
1819<@ctwelve> Then I respectfully say you have no relevant e perience to this argument
1820<@ctwelve> Now. Your paycheck goes down by 15€
1821<@ctwelve> What do you do?
1822<@ctwelve> Also, be careful: this state describes a lot of us st one point or another
1823»» @Blackknight64 whistles cheerfully
1824<@ctwelve> Because the cost of the the things you need doesn’t go down
1825<CTMGame> Well, right now I live in an area with high costs of living
1826<@ctwelve> So...you optimize
1827<@ctwelve> And you shrink costs
1828<@ctwelve> Fair enough.
1829<CTMGame> That or find a better job
1830<@ctwelve> Now it goes down by 100€
1831<@Blackknight64> Haaaaw.
1832<@ctwelve> There is no better job, man
1833<CTMGame> ctwelve: Okay
1834<@Blackknight64> "Find a better job"
1835<@ctwelve> wipro in India sucked up the market
1836<@ctwelve> Or, anothe possibility
1837<CTMGame> That sucks, but I would either be eligible for welfare (in the real FRG) or have net negative income tax (in an FRG run by the Free Democrats)
1838<@ctwelve> Wages stay the same
1839<@ctwelve> Costs go up
1840<isoraqathedh> (Why does everything cost money.)
1841<@ctwelve> Same difference
1842<@Blackknight64> Lemme take you out to West Virginia coal country.
1843<VAE> ((FRG?))
1844<CTMGame> Federal Republic of Germany
1845<@ctwelve> Because everything has value
1846<@ctwelve> CTMGame: and?
1847<isoraqathedh> I'm quoting that meme thing.
1848<@ctwelve> Now what are you
1849<AnotherLurker> you may also wish to y'know, sell your home and move to wherever you can feasibly go thats cheaper.
1850<@ctwelve> Are you a contributing member of society?
1851<CTMGame> In the net, no
1852<@ctwelve> What does that do to your soul?
1853<CTMGame> Well, technically I still am
1854<@ctwelve> At the very least, does it not change your world view?
1855<@ctwelve> Your priorities?
1856<CTMGame> Because everything produced must be consumed and my labour value still exceeds 0
1857<CTMGame> Maybe
1858<@ctwelve> Your self-perceived value?
1859<@ctwelve> Economics isn’t numbers ,an
1860<@ctwelve> Man
1861<CTMGame> I wouldn't know how I'd react
1862<@ctwelve> Numbers are just the indicators
1863<CTMGame> I believe in facts over feelings, first and foremost
1864<@ctwelve> I will straight out tell you that is unwise.
1865<a_man_in_black> then you can't study economics effectively
1866<@ctwelve> People seldom use facts exclusively
1867<AnotherLurker> ^
1868<a_man_in_black> so many intangible factors can make or break an economy
1869<VAE> mm
1870<AnotherLurker> If you look at the stock market for more than a few minutes
1871»» @Blackknight64 sighs.
1872<a_man_in_black> consumer confidence
1873<@ctwelve> Right, I bow out.
1874<a_man_in_black> sarry
1875<@ctwelve> And stop tackling y’all
1876<VAE> besides, trump being elected is a very, very mild variant of what might happen when you do this to millions
1877<a_man_in_black> ctwelve had the floor and i interrupted, i'm sorry:(
1878<@ctwelve> RotoSequence: like I said, voice people
1879<CTMGame> But there are more than two participants in an economy
1880<@ctwelve> Correct
1881<@RotoSequence> I'm a bit distracted myself
1882<@ctwelve> There are countless participants
1883<@ctwelve> And they are not rational actors
1884<@ctwelve> They are self-interested actors
1885<@ctwelve> That has a different meaning and it’s important
1886<@ctwelve> Economies are largely run on perception, feeling, and spirit
1887<@ctwelve> The numbers just bolster or repress that spirit
1888<@ctwelve> They’re useful
1889<CTMGame> But feelings cancel out if you view a mass of people large enough
1890<@ctwelve> And in the hand of a skilled leader make a difference
1891<@ctwelve> No they don
1892<CTMGame> Cars in a traffic jam behave like sand in a pipe
1893<@ctwelve> They amplify
1894<VAE> yep. You don't really care that in some abstract sense the illegal who got your job because he can do it for two thirds of the price is helping the economy
1895<@ctwelve> Okay.
1896<VAE> because you aren't better off
1897<@ctwelve> Let me ask you this, CTMGame
1898<VAE> Actually, feelings can resonate.
1899<@ctwelve> Why has consumer and business conidence skyrocketed in the US lately?
1900«--- Nightingale (J@user/Nightingale) has Quit (Connection closed)
1901<@ctwelve> And did so the night Trump was elected?
1902<@ctwelve> There is precisely zero rational basis for that
1903«--- Testostergoat (uid232231@user/Goatsmith) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1904<@ctwelve> And yet, the weight of that all by itself unleashed economic forces that had laid dormant for going on two decades
1905<@ctwelve> Why?
1906<@ctwelve> Nothing more than belief that someone would *UNDERSTAND*
1907<@ctwelve> They set the economy revving before he had made any concrete proposals of any kind
1908<@ctwelve> In fact, some of his proposals were actively anti-globalist
1909<@ctwelve> Didn’t matter
1910<@ctwelve> The emotion of it carried the day
1911<@ctwelve> Fed on itself
1912<@ctwelve> Triggered irrational exuberance
1913<AnotherLurker> Stock market is a good example of how increasing the number of participants doesn't let you create stable trends and/or amplifies unpredicability. See: panic sell, panic buy etc.
1914<AnotherLurker> [goes back to shutting up]
1915<@ctwelve> And then when actual changes followed, got crazier
1916<@ctwelve> It’s only now, that things are calming down
1917<@ctwelve> And at the point where the rule changes are most advantageous
1918<@ctwelve> If this were rational, NOW would be when things shifted
1919<@ctwelve> Not calmed down
1920<@ctwelve> But seen emotionally
1921<@ctwelve> People are tired of winning
1922<@ctwelve> Now it’s time to get to work
1923<@ctwelve> So they’re more cautious
1924<@ctwelve> This is my personal belief, but
1925<@ctwelve> As an Intel and geopolitical analyst, i had far more analytic success when I used and emotional/spiritual model for societies than played the numbers game
1926<@ctwelve> Anecdote is not data, but people really are not rational
1927<@ctwelve> They are emotional. Singly, and in groups of all sizes.
1928<@ctwelve> They are also tribal
1929<@ctwelve> Tribes are the unit of competition
1930<@ctwelve> Ignoring that has consequences in all dimension of human experience
1931<@ctwelve> Anyway
1932<VAE> well, ctwelve, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If it worked for you repeatedly, you were doing something right.
1933<@ctwelve> </rant>
1934<@Blackknight64> If I may, ctwelve?
1935<@ctwelve> Go ahead
1936<@RotoSequence> Blackknight64, I say you may
1937<@ctwelve> I gotta poop and shower
1938<isoraqathedh> If I understood this correctly, society seems to have some kind of insulating effect that allows for reälity to occasionally lose grip and things become fantastically stochastic.
1939<@Blackknight64> CTMGame: do you know what I do for a living these days?
1940<CTMGame> Blackknight64: Security guard, right? Or was that Hapless?
1941<@Blackknight64> That's Hapless
1942<isoraqathedh> I always thought something similar with language: once you put enough abstraction layers into a language, you can have it express plainly nonsense statements and it will still be somehow be accepted as a correct sentence.
1943<@Blackknight64> I'm a freight broker
1944<Ogre> artificially deflated wages -dont- help the economy, and doubly so when those deflated wages are mostly funneled out of the country, less the illegal's expenses, -on top of-, most illegals who can, using social services, welfare, schools, hospitals... That shit adds up. It's half the reason for California's unsustainable debt load.
1945<@Blackknight64> Easiest way to explain that is that I'm a freelance transportation manager 
1946<@Blackknight64> Most of my customers are manufacturers of some sort or another
1947<@Blackknight64> Now my job is twofold- sales, and the actual logistics 
1948<@Blackknight64> I happen to be pretty fucking good at both
1949<VAE> Ogre - the problem is that the person doing it saves money short-term
1950<VAE> while pumping out negative externalities everywhere
1951<@Blackknight64> Sales, and by extension, economics is absolutely driven by emotion
1952<CTMGame> The individual preferences of people are just another consumption function.
1953<CTMGame> People by definition do what they want if you let them
1954<@RotoSequence> ...what does that even mean?
1955<CTMGame> No matter how stupid that is
1956<@Blackknight64> I fail to see your point, here.
1957<CTMGame> RotoSequence: There is a cost-vs-consumption curve for every commodity for everyone
1958<VAE> CTMGame the thing is, people are not independent actors, and their influences dont' cancel out on average
1959<VAE> they can and do resonate
1960<CTMGame> Blackknight64: This was against ctwelve's irrationality thing
1961<VAE> which is the moods they're tlaking about
1962<CTMGame> Their interest may be irrational, but the way they pursue it is rational
1963<VAE> classic example is a bank run
1964<@RotoSequence> CTMGame, here's the part that seems to be missing from your arguments though CTMGame 
1965<CTMGame> People may not know their real interests
1966<VAE> which can be triggered by something entirely far too stupid
1967<@RotoSequence> You gotta have money to buy shit to be a consumer
1968<VAE> but once it's going there's positive feedback
1969<@RotoSequence> You can't destroy all sources of labor that you can use to earn wages to consume shit
1970<VAE> RotoSequence and you have to have sales to have money as a business
1971<@RotoSequence> Yes
1972<VAE> which is the problem with all this
1973<@RotoSequence> And if you are pulling money out of your economy
1974<@RotoSequence> Lo and behold
1975<VAE> everyone is just looking at their expense sheets
1976<@RotoSequence> Nobody can do anything
1977<VAE> and that's why you have social unrest and poverty
1978<@RotoSequence> But don't tell economists that
1979<VAE> there's a reason it's called "currency"
1980<CTMGame> You can't "destroy labour"
1981<@RotoSequence> Because human factors are irrelevant to them
1982<VAE> it's worthwhile when it circulates
1983<@Blackknight64> Um 
1984<@RotoSequence> You absolutely can
1985<CTMGame> Aside from literally killing the workers
1986<@Blackknight64> Kids.
1987<@Blackknight64> Papa BK wasn't done yet.
1988<VAE> kk
1989<@RotoSequence> Sorry
1990<CTMGame> k
1991<@Blackknight64> No worries
1992<CTMGame> Blackknight64: I took some more time to argue with you, so I was still replying to the others
1993<@Blackknight64> So a few things
1994<@Blackknight64> Item #1: the economy is thrumming, as ctwelve noted
1995<@Blackknight64> To the point that rates for freight have doubled, and in some cases tripled to account for demand of those trucks
1996<@Blackknight64> This is propelled by a number of factors, but has been a consistent upward trend over the last year
1997«--- BelgianRockfan (uid71662@user/BelgianRockfan) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1998<a_man_in_black> mmm trucks
1999<@Blackknight64> All of those are largely irrational, with the exception of the reduction in the corporate tax rate.
2000<@Blackknight64> Simply put, companies are reinvesting in themselves, buying equipment, and hiring people.
2001<@Blackknight64> Item the second: a thing about sales is that on any given day, I talk to probably a hundred different people, between cold calls, and the transportation function of my job.
2002<Ogre> amazing what a 25% bounce in your bottom line will do.
2003<@Blackknight64> Right?
2004<@Blackknight64> Anyway, consumer confidence is soaring.  Folks are making money hand over fist.  My company just shattered our previous monthly record.  
2005<Ogre> (adjustment of tax rate, coupled with increase in profits from slight lowering of prices, -plus- ripple effect of all your suppliers lowering costs...)
2006<@Blackknight64> But third, and to circle back to the previous point
2007<@Blackknight64> I would say that I spend 50%, if not more, of my day talking to -legal- immigrants
2008<a_man_in_black> ...
2009<CTMGame> Corporate taxes should be abolished
2010<CTMGame> The only just thing to tax is consumption
2011<a_man_in_black> i just got served court papers over a credit card i don't even remember
2012<VAE> lolwut
2013<CTMGame> Taxing income and sales punished people for success
2014<@Blackknight64> Not touching that, CTMGame.  It's not salient to the discussion, and it's a pipe dream at best.
2015<CTMGame> I was just adding my opinion
2016<VAE> ...
2017<@RotoSequence> Lets avoid touching that for now
2018<VAE> yeah
2019<a_man_in_black> i answered a knock at the door and nearly shit myself when it was a deputy. i was like "dafuq, i ain't left the house, what do they want now"
2020<@RotoSequence> Because that's a really hairing debate that would sidetrack the current topic
2021<@Blackknight64> See, here's the thing, though, about those legal immigrants
2022<@Blackknight64> They're from all walks of life, and all manner of locales
2023<Jalapenyo|Drank> I've always been intrigued by FairTax CTMGame 
2024<Jalapenyo|Drank> well not always
2025<Jalapenyo|Drank> recently
2026<@Blackknight64> Today, I talked with at least four Eastern Europeans, two Indians, and a handful of Hispanics.
2027<@RotoSequence> Jalapenyo|Drank, lets try to let Blackknight64 finish
2028<Jalapenyo|Drank> right sorry
2029<@Blackknight64> Trucking is an industry where you can come into it with no background skills whatsoever, learn to drive, and make *bank*
2030<VAE> Blackknight64, one of the things that's really worrying about autonomous trucks.
2031<@ctwelve> STOP SIDETRACKING
2032<@Blackknight64> These guys all have to be legal immigrants, or the company gets its authority to operate yanked.
2033<@Blackknight64> But you know what I hear off these guys?
2034»» Jalapenyo|Drank already sorried 
2035<@Blackknight64> It's damned near universal
2036<@Blackknight64> They purely *fucking* hate illegals
2037<@Blackknight64> Because the illegals attempt to circumvent a fairly strenuous process, and by extension make the legals look like shit.
2038<@Blackknight64> So, what do?
2039<@Blackknight64> These motherfuckers have to work that much harder for a shot
2040<CTMGame> Abolish the strenuous process so no one has to bypass it anymore
2041<@Blackknight64> Lol, no
2042<VAE> rofl
2043<VAE> so then
2044<CTMGame> People don't deserve a reward for putting up with bureaucracy
2045<CTMGame> The bureaucracy itself must be abolished
2046<VAE> you have Ivan coming to your country because police seeks him in Ukraine
2047<VAE> and his buddies Sergej and Igor and Volodya
2048<CTMGame> VAE: What are extradition agreements for?
2049<VAE> oh, but look, when you cut down on the immigration requirements
2050<CTMGame> I literally believe in minimizing government through automation and digitalisation.
2051<VAE> you make it easier to slip through
2052<@RotoSequence> Okay
2053<VAE> look at the migrants from allegedly syria
2054<@RotoSequence> So this is really poised to go off the rails here
2055<@Blackknight64> Anyhow.
2056<VAE> there, the system was kinda abolished, and.. as a result you have people from Albania to Bangladesh coming in
2057<VAE> anyhow
2058<VAE> the point is, if you make movement of people easy, you run into trouble immediately because the law still only owrks border to border
2059<VAE> among other things
2060<@Blackknight64> CTMGame: You're arguing for a system of wishes and pipe dreams
2061<@Blackknight64> Which, cool
2062<@Blackknight64> That's all you, buddy
2063<@Blackknight64> But that isn't how the world works, nor should it.
2064<@Blackknight64> Remember ctwelve's point about tribe
2065<@Blackknight64> Tribe works because the tribe has a set of values, customs, and beliefs that they all hold
2066<@Blackknight64> And entering the tribe has to be earned, it isn't freely given
2067<CTMGame> Tribes break down at sufficiently large population sizes
2068<@Blackknight64> Tribe is how you define it
2069<@Blackknight64> I'm speaking metaphorically here.  I'm not, for discussing tribe in the sense that a Pashtun might mean.
2070<CTMGame> Even so, a culturally shared sense of belonging can't be defined  monolithically in the 21st century
2071<@Blackknight64> Sure it can
2072<Ogre> ^^
2073<@Blackknight64> I can even prove it
2074<VAE> <Blackknight64> And entering the tribe has to be earned, it isn't freely given // this btw is at least some guarantee that the member you have no idea about actually shares your values, customs and beliefs and won't shit over you in the first second. Because shared experience creates bonds and to some extent understanding
2075<@Blackknight64> Ctwelve: who are our favorite crayon eaters?
2076<@Blackknight64> Or Ogre, for that matter
2077<@Blackknight64> Or HaplessOperator- whatcha gonna disparagingly call the Air Force?
2078<CTMGame> Now we've kinda shifted our discussion
2079<CTMGame> Since all we've done on the economics bit is reduce ourselves to our priors
2080<CTMGame> Which - IS - the point of debating, really
2081<@Blackknight64> I just listed three different individuals that all share a monolithivally defined sense of cultural belonging with me
2082<CTMGame> Blackknight64: I didn't mean it like that
2083<CTMGame> But every airman is still an american
2084<CTMGame> So they are a member of two tribes at once
2085<@Blackknight64> Only one of them is an airman
2086<CTMGame> For the sake of argument
2087<CTMGame> And they don't have to be subsets of each other
2088<@Blackknight64> Sure, but again, tribe is how you define it
2089<CTMGame> Ah, here is where we had a misunderstanding
2090<CTMGame> We both made different points apparently
2091<@Blackknight64> Consider that both tribes have their own standards of admittance
2092<@Blackknight64> And that those standards exist, as VAE pointed out, for a reason
2093<@ctwelve> And they matter
2094<@ctwelve> There is a reason football has the energy it does
2095<@ctwelve> CTMGame: you ever watch Haidt’s videos on religion, tribe, politics, etc?
2096<CTMGame> Yes, actually
2097<@ctwelve> Because Economics is merely an attempt to quantify that
2098<CTMGame> Back in 2016
2099«--- Adradis (Adradis@Snoonet-ism.pe9.a69e46.IP) has Quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2100<VAE> Blackknight64 - a point in favour. Pub, social outing, wherever you get some guys over say 40 to meet, especially if they're strange-ish?
2101<@ctwelve> Except most economists have lost the thread, as it were
2102<@ctwelve> People are not numbers
2103<VAE> I guarantee the talk will turn to their mandated stint in army service
2104<@ctwelve> They don’t behave like numbers
2105<@ctwelve> Numbers to people are nothing more than a useful datapoint
2106<@ctwelve> One of several in any given economic decision
2107<@ctwelve> And that means an economist must attempt to account for the unquantifiable aspects of an economy
2108<@ctwelve> Since, by really basic axioms about human behavior, numbers are not the only input to the system
2109<@ctwelve> Hell. Take me ordering fast food
2110<@ctwelve> Can I afford it? Should I? What do we have in the pantry? How lazy do I feel?
2111<@ctwelve> Am I feeling a little blue and need a pick me up?
2112<@ctwelve> Will I regret this in the morning?
2113<@ctwelve> What about my weight?
2114<@ctwelve> Shouldn’t I pay attention to that?
2115<@ctwelve> But is it wasteful to make something tasty st home? Roommate isn’t here...
2116<@ctwelve> Wait, leftovers!
2117<@ctwelve> But they’re kinda boring by now...
2118<@ctwelve> And so on
2119<theAncientOne> You forgot, "Am I willing to deal with having the shits for 2 days?"
2120<Ogre> for me, it's "what's available/affordable/diabetes friendly."
2121<VAE> ...that actually happened to me. With the paradoxical result that I got some when my prospects of eating at home were /better/
2122<AnotherLurker> "I dont even need money in my account, I have a credit card and a *99% certainty I'll be paid this month*"
2123<@ctwelve> And all of this is stuff you don’t even consciously think about
2124<VAE> because the day before, I went "eh I can cobble somethign up" and I had jack shit in the fridge
2125<@ctwelve> It just happens
2126<CTMGame> Okay, now you just made me feel guilty for being a 1%er
2127<AnotherLurker> Or even if you do, you can easily just toss it out the window because *reasons*
2128<VAE> so even though I got some groceries meanwhile, the next day...
2129<AnotherLurker> CTMGame, no thats not made to make you feel guilty
2130<@ctwelve> Pls. I make 80k a year
2131<AnotherLurker> even if you have a good job you can still be -fired-
2132<@ctwelve> I’m doing pretty well for a single man
2133<@ctwelve> It happens
2134<VAE> CTMGame what do you do?
2135<AnotherLurker> Like, my mom was making ~100 some thousand dollars reliably and then her division just got shut down
2136<AnotherLurker> because costco unexpectadly changed the rules
2137<@ctwelve> Perspective is very important
2138<AnotherLurker> this shit just happens.
2139<CTMGame> VAE: I am a student, but my parents have a software company
2140<VAE> ah
2141<@ctwelve> And that’s why rich and poor need to communicate
2142<VAE> so working there to get some extra cash
2143<Ogre> eh
2144<CTMGame> Well, had, but I saw the total asset value on their divorce settlement proposal
2145<@ctwelve> Because $50 boots
2146<CTMGame> VAE: That too
2147<Ogre> the rich command, and the poor obey.
2148<AnotherLurker> Ogre, depends on how you define rich.
2149<@ctwelve> The trick is that rich people often can afford to spend less money
2150<VAE> YEP
2151<VAE> ex:
2152<@ctwelve> You can buy a 300$ pair of boots that will last a lifetime
2153<AnotherLurker> The george soros yes, but if you define rich as 'having more than 40,000 to just toss at something if they feel like it' then no.
2154<@ctwelve> A poor man cannot
2155<VAE> the cheapo shoes I bought at LIDL
2156<VAE> and returned after they wore through in four weeks
2157<@ctwelve> He can buy 25$ boots that last one year
2158<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, alternatively the rich can afford to buy cheap stuff constantly
2159<VAE> ctwelve sometimes it's even more marginal
2160<AnotherLurker> like the people who buy crappy boots to "save a few bucks" but don't realize that they're losing money with how constantly they replace them because -it doesn't affect them-
2161<VAE> aka the 40EUR bag I bought that literally fell apart after half a year and had damage in a month
2162<VAE> vs the 70 one I got in return (added 20 to the money they had, ten was discount) that is fine after three months now
2163<Ogre> If I want something to last? I make it myself.
2164<VAE> like, unbelievable difference in material
2165<AnotherLurker> Like, it's actaully absurd how prevalent that is in the upper-middle class mindset. I've been surrounded with people who had plenty of disposable income and lots saved up, yet they waste so much of it trying to be cheap.
2166<AnotherLurker> "I can just buy the 10$ [thing] on alibaba, why even spend the 75 on amazon. *later* Damn things busted again, guess I'll just buy yet another one." [repeat until you've spent well beyond 75$ in the 'life time' of the more expensive version.]
2167<Ogre> of course, I've got a life-time's worth of experience in that. my home-made gear might be ugly, but it -lasts-.
2168<AnotherLurker> gets worse if you include shipping, or money wasted on repairing it.
2169<VAE> more like alibaba vs not actually chinese made
2170<VAE> on amazon you might get pricy&shitty combo
2171<Ogre> and I buy the best gear I can.
2172<@ctwelve> I just had an old man moment 
2173<Ogre> oh?
2174<AnotherLurker> do tell
2175<@ctwelve> like, my hip has been bothering me all day
2176<@ctwelve> so I took a hot shower
2177<@ctwelve> now it doesn't
2178»» @ctwelve grumbles
2179<AnotherLurker> Oh great
2180<AnotherLurker> now you gotta move down to florida
2181<AnotherLurker> and grow a big nose and complain about arthritis
2182<@RotoSequence> I'm reminded of a saying
2183<@RotoSequence> "Being poor is expensive"
2184<VAE> yeah
2185<@RotoSequence> Also its ten degrees (F) above freezing and I'm still cold
2186<theAncientOne> Well, I've just spent an hour tracking down where somebody used their domestic violence assistance grant. Someone is going to have to explain to them that using DV grant money to pay off your lifetime membership to a dating website isn't cool.
2187<@Blackknight64> Apologies, Got tied up on a phone call for a second.
2188<theAncientOne> I suggest using a wireless phone.  It reduces that problem. :)
2189<@Blackknight64> Ha
2190<@Blackknight64> theAncientOne: Erin is losing her shit laughing
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2192<@Blackknight64> "I'm laughing because it sounds so right."
2193<theAncientOne> I told our investigator we really need to know which dating site. for science.
2194<@Blackknight64> Bahaha
2195<@Blackknight64> Erin would like to know how your DV grant works.
2196<Ogre> being poor -is- expensive.
2197<theAncientOne> Blackknight64: not like that.
2198<theAncientOne> How they justified cutting a check directly to the person is /utterly/ beyond me.
2199<theAncientOne> we, like, never do that.
2200<theAncientOne> Ever.
2201<theAncientOne> unless there's no other reasonable options
2202<theAncientOne> and this is the reason wy
2203<theAncientOne> why'
2204<@Blackknight64> Well, sure.  She's trying to figure out how the program itself is designed.
2205<theAncientOne> Apparently we know this because they TOLD us.
2206<theAncientOne> oh
2207<theAncientOne> .g TA-DVS Oregon
2208<+gonzobot> (theAncientOne) http://www.oregon.gov/dhs/abuse/domestic/pages/tadvs.aspx -- Temporary Assistance for Domestic Violence Survivors - Program Summary Skip to the main content of the page;…
2209<theAncientOne> lemme know if you want more
2210<@Blackknight64> Will do.  Just passed her the link.
2211<@Blackknight64> How do you guys prevent people engineering a DV situation for purposes of gaining grant money?
2212<a_man_in_black> if they're anything like TN, trying that is epic levels of not worth it
2213<a_man_in_black> in TN, in /any/ case where there is a DV charge
2214<a_man_in_black> there will always, ALWAYS be /somebody/ goin to jail
2215<a_man_in_black> if you call 911 on a DV situation, it doesn't matter if nobody touched anybody, the police are locking /somebody/ up, even if they have to grab someone on the premises at random
2216<@Blackknight64> Sure.  I need to dig into MN assault law.
2217<@Blackknight64> In Kentucky, a DV assault results in an automatic arrest.
2218<theAncientOne> We don't.
2219<a_man_in_black> here, if they don't take someone to jail for it, they take the accuser in for false report
2220<theAncientOne> Under the premise of "better safe than sorry", essentially - we do ask lots of questions, and there's a pretty extensive amount of contact
2221<a_man_in_black> and 99 percent of the time they take the man, no matter what
2222<a_man_in_black> i know of instances where a woman was beating her man, and they arrested the man for domestic assault
2223<theAncientOne> dv program =/= police involvement.  sometimes the cops are involved, and if they are, and if the person coming to us volunteers a copy of the report, we'll take it, but it's not a factor for eligibility at all.
2224<a_man_in_black> that's different than TN
2225<@Blackknight64> Huh.
2226<a_man_in_black> you can't go to any of the domestic violence support places or programs without first filing police report
2227<theAncientOne> it's a state-funded program. states get to do what they want.
2228<a_man_in_black> or the police report happens when you go
2229<a_man_in_black> it's actually silly
2230<a_man_in_black> a lot of women don't want nto press charges they just want to escape
2231<theAncientOne> yup
2232<theAncientOne> men too
2233<a_man_in_black> TN doesn't recognize DV against men
2234<a_man_in_black> i mean, on paper they do
2235<a_man_in_black> but in practice they don't
2236<theAncientOne> what kills me is when i have to say no because there aren't kids in the home.
2237<@Blackknight64> Huh.  Interesting.
2238»» CTMGame is now known as CTMGame|zzz
2239<theAncientOne> but we can take all kinds of permutations - I approved a request about a month ago for a gal whose ex is in prison...because her next door neighbor is his BFF and has started making some very specific directed threats to her safety & the safety of her kids after she got subpoenaed to testify against the ex.
2240<theAncientOne> ...this week, i tell ya
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2242<@Blackknight64> Huh.
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2250<Tilted> .tell CTMGame another problem with letting in millions of low skilled migrants (yes, the US sees about 2 million illegal migrants each year) is that it makes the whole group disposable.
2251<a_man_in_black> it's not good for either country
2252<a_man_in_black> all that labor thtah comes over here, most of them get treated like shit by shitty people, either the cartels or the people who pay for the under the table work
2253<a_man_in_black> they get treated like shit, the money gets funneled out back to their home country, and the status quo never changes
2254<a_man_in_black> all their drive to succeed or provide for their family/tribe/group
2255<a_man_in_black> gets spent here
2256<Tilted> There's a certain amount of benefit that the host country will extract, but it has tons of externalities that makes it very much not worth it.
2257<a_man_in_black> instead of actually improving their situations at home
2258<Tilted> The workers themselves, which is a more important thing than the economy as far as I'm concerned, get chewed up and spit out
2259<Tilted> If they work at all
2260<Tilted> The US has tons of menial labor industries that can absorb the influx and put them to some use, but places like Germany?
2261<Tilted> In the numbers that the migrants arrived, opening their borders to more unchecked would be...
2262<Ogre> I think I said this 4 hours ago.
2263<Tilted> I really don't know a better term than death
2264<Ogre> also, important... the people who are pouring into europe? -completely unskilled-.
2265<Ogre> I mean, some of them might kinda-sorta know their way around an ak-47, and how to herd farm animals, but... that's it.
2266<Tilted> Unskilled isn't too bad, as that can be taught. The trouble is that they don't know the language, and refuse to learn or assimilate.
2267<Tilted> Therefore they cannot be taught
2268<Ogre> many, if not most are not even literate in their own language.
2269<Ogre> dude, no, they can't be taught.
2270<Ogre> the money costs alone preclude it.
2271<a_man_in_black> you can teach a single person
2272<a_man_in_black> teaching an entire people is a whole different thing
2273<Tilted> This is also teaching people who don't want to learn
2274<Ogre> it's worse that than.
2275<Ogre> it's like we have here in the use. Learning is 'acting white'.
2276<Tilted> Oh, I was just about to touch on tht
2277<Tilted> Some of the highest funded schools in inner cities have worse performance than shack schools in the poorest countries because the children and parents are not invested in education
2278<%HaplessOperator> There's also a cultural thing in a lot 9f places, ctwelve and I have spoken about it before
2279<%HaplessOperator> In the Middle East at large 
2280<a_man_in_black> that's something i'm not sure how to fix, the "acting white" bias
2281<a_man_in_black> it's like black kids in school here
2282<%HaplessOperator> Lying and saying you understand something to save face and then lying about it after you fuck up
2283<a_man_in_black> to get good grades and do school work means you are "acting too white"
2284<%HaplessOperator> Is better than just learning it to begin with
2285<Tilted> a_man_in_black: The only thing I can think of is to let them fail, but cut the benefits for failing
2286<@ctwelve> Yeah :-/
2287<Tilted> Like, I don't want people starving, and a basic level of health and housing is pretty important, too
2288<a_man_in_black> at this point in time, at least in this part of th e US, it's too late for that tilted
2289<Ogre> can't save everyone.
2290<a_man_in_black> if you tried to do it that way, you would spark literal race wars and riots all through the south
2291<Tilted> But, you shouldn't incentivize poverty
2292<a_man_in_black> at this point you can't even call it incentivizing poverty
2293<%HaplessOperator> Too bad we're not post scarcity yet, and that until that point, triage has to be made, as well as damage control and keeping out people who will make progress toward greater sustainment difficult or impossible 
2294<a_man_in_black> it's appeasement of the potentially violent ignorant by now
2295<a_man_in_black> you've got 5 or more generations dependent on the system as it is
2296<a_man_in_black> to change it will bring inevitable chaos for a time
2297<%HaplessOperator> Tilted: I don't think anyone wants that. It's just that there's not many people willing to recognize the situation on the ground
2298<a_man_in_black> this is regardless of race on the whole, i spoke of the black kids at first, but now it's poor people in general
2299<Tilted> Here's the thing, if someone wants to live in a little shack and live off of government cheese and potatoes, I'm fine with that.
2300<Tilted> Literal pennies to keep that guy going
2301<a_man_in_black> hey man, i'd take that deal
2302<a_man_in_black> cheese and taters?
2303<a_man_in_black> fuck yeah
2304<Tilted> But, I don't want him locked to that lifestyle because to do better would mean a more unstable life.
2305<%HaplessOperator> It doesn't take literal pennies after you factor in the architecture and distribution network needed to set that up for him and thousands or tens of thousands like him, though 
2306<%HaplessOperator> Or what's required to get those cheese and taters out to those same people
2307<Tilted> Well, I live not very far from dairy and potato farms
2308<%HaplessOperator> Those dairy and potato farms have actual businesses and customers to begin with, though.
2309<%HaplessOperator> And they're not gonna front the cost.
2310<Tilted> Oh yes, and for the most part the government is already buying the excess crops to keep prices stable
2311<Tilted> I imagine Ogre is familiar with government cheese
2312<Ogre> yup
2313<Tilted> That was mostly done as a method to maintain the dairy industry
2314<Tilted> Like, during the great depression? Thousands of gallons of milk were just dumped because nobody could afford them
2315<Tilted> The US produces ungodly amounts of food
2316<a_man_in_black> yeah
2317<a_man_in_black> last time i looked into it, we gave away in foreign aid as much food as we consume
2318<a_man_in_black> if not more
2319<Tilted> And, once you factor in everything else going on, it costs pennies to give that guy his potatoes
2320<Tilted> Because we already have everything to do that
2321<Tilted> Now, going back to the earlier points
2322<Tilted> As soon as I remember them...
2323»» Tilted looks around for his brain
2324<Tilted> Huh, nobody home in there
2325<Tilted> Guess I'm done for the day then
2326<Ogre> I'm here.
2327<Ogre> goofing off, mostly
2328<%HaplessOperator> Tilted: We already have functional, large-scale cheese and potato distribution centers? 
2329<Ogre> yeah
2330<a_man_in_black> actually yeah
2331<Ogre> they're call fast food joints.
2332<%HaplessOperator> With functional refrigeration to store the massive quantities at the point of distribution? 
2333<a_man_in_black> i do community service at the government commoditties place bagging taters and cheese and canned goods sometimes
2334<a_man_in_black> almost all the labor is inmates and convicts
2335<a_man_in_black> we load about ten tons of dry and canned good in a good day 
2336<a_man_in_black> or rather, bag it up and load it onto smaller trucks to take to the pickup places where people on commodities can come grab it
2337<a_man_in_black> not as much cheese goes as there used to be though
2338<a_man_in_black> it's mostly taters and canned veggies
2339<a_man_in_black> also beans
2340<a_man_in_black> lots and lots of beans
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2349<Ogre> http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-gun-trace-task-force-gttf-testimony-highlights-20180126-story.html
2350<+gonzobot> Title: Notable testimony from the Baltimore Police Gun Trace Task Force corruption trial, updated with Day 5 - Baltimore Sun
2351<Ogre> holy shit that's some fucking hollywood movie shit level corruption.
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2356<@ctwelve> off to bed with me
2357<@ctwelve> but parting thought
2358<@ctwelve> the memo supposedly comes out tomorrow
2359<@ctwelve> after Schiff did some shenanians
2360<Ogre> exciting.
2361<@ctwelve> Democrats altered basically three words
2362<@ctwelve> now claim "Material alteration"
2363<@ctwelve> and committee needs to vote on it again
2364<@ctwelve> Nunes has publicly called ullshit 
2365<@ctwelve> they are DESPERATE
2366<Ogre> how much you wanna bet they'll keep doing it as long as they can?
2367<Ogre> coupled with a complete news blackout, I noticed.
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2375<%HaplessOperator> ctwelve: First Super Bowl after one complete fiscal year of Trump
2376<%HaplessOperator> Eagles and Patriots
2377<%HaplessOperator> #stillwinning
2378<@RotoSequence> lol
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2380<Ogre> well
2381<Ogre> I just heard an interesting rumor.
2382<Ogre> you know the train accident?
2383<Ogre> with all the republican legislators?
2384<Ogre> none of this is verified.
2385<Ogre> I'm hearing rumors that the accident was staged, and that someone was trying to kill all the legislators on that train with an intentional derailment.
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2387<@RotoSequence> That rumor cropped up almost instantly
2388<@RotoSequence> Not sure how much credit I'd give it
2389<@RotoSequence> Since the driver of the truck died IIRC
2390<Ogre> me either
2391<Ogre> but it's the first time in my life that I've heard such a rumor.
2392»» Disconnected (No such device or address).
2393»» Now talking on ##HFYpolitics
2394»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics is: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<BREAKING NEWS  ++ NUNES MEMO ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
2395»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics set by ctwelve!sid54852@HFY/the.lore.seeker at Mon Jan 29 19:42:18 2018
2396<@Patriarchy> [GamingWolfie] I am the Archwolf; High Prophet to the Potato. The Bringer of the Starchy Word, the Purveyor of Order. Kneel before me: http://i.imgur.com/K4OVGW2.png
2397»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o GamingWolfie|Zzz)
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2402<VAE> https://i.imgur.com/SYx9BD6.jpg
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2405<VAE_work> https://twitter.com/Harry1T6/status/958754276863455232
2406<+gonzobot> (VAE_work) ✓@Harry1T6 (Harry Khachatrian): When you call Republicans evil but your initial reaction to a truck driver fatally colliding with a train is “haha,… https://t.co/NBoveXhzuR (16 hours and 17 minutes ago)
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2411<captainmeta4> YouTube is, for lack of a better word, chucked
2412<captainmeta4> s/chucked/cucked
2413<+gonzobot> Correction, <captainmeta4> YouTube is, for lack of a better word, cucked
2414<captainmeta4> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3dSxucdp/1517484469.JPG
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2428<a_man_in_black> i'm watching the morning news
2429<a_man_in_black> apparently that student who recorded his teacher talkin shit about the military is getting death threats on himself and his family for posting it
2430<Tox> from other students?
2431<a_man_in_black> other students and online "activists"
2432<Tox> and yet when someone recorded a teacher talking about religion and shit...no such thing
2433<a_man_in_black> well as long as they talk shit about non-muslim religions, that's acceptable and just
2434<a_man_in_black> it's only islam that isn't to be mocked
2435<Tox> buh.
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2437<a_man_in_black> his response seems to have been to enlist in the marines and to tell the activists to "come git sum"
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2439»» captainmeta4 is now known as cm4_cyborg
2440<AnotherLurker> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/01/31/bill-nye-was-a-trump-nominees-guest-at-the-state-of-the-union-scientists-were-not-amused/?utm_term=.6c423b519c70
2441<+gonzobot> Title: Bill Nye was a Trump nominee's guest at the State of the Union. Scientists were not amused. - The Washington Post
2442<AnotherLurker> Hahahaha
2443<AnotherLurker> rip bill nye
2444»» cm4_cyborg is now known as captainmeta4
2445<@ctwelve> Because scientists are totally apolitical, AnotherLurker 
2446<@ctwelve> how dare you question them
2447<AnotherLurker> Im just laughing because bill jumped onto the leftist retard-wagon
2448»» captainmeta4 is now known as cm4_cyborg
2449<AnotherLurker> and now they're eating their own and he's fucked.
2450<AnotherLurker> but part of me is sad, science -should- be apoloitical. that and the whole "watched him growing up" bit.
2451«--- cm4_cyborg (sid107518@user/captainmeta4) has Quit (Changing host)
2452---» cm4_cyborg (sid107518@user/cm4-cyborg/x-5a73383d) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2453»» cm4_cyborg is now known as captainmeta4
2454«--- captainmeta4 (sid107518@user/cm4-cyborg/x-5a73383d) has Quit (Changing host)
2455---» captainmeta4 (sid107518@user/captainmeta4) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2456<+gonzobot> ​ "A lot of that comes from captainmeta4 who, god bless 'em, is a huge energetic puppy." - c12
2457«--- Warscribe (quassel@Snoonet-vat.h1o.72sfkt.IP) has Quit (Connection closed)
2458<@ctwelve> I fail at this repeatedly, but I am trying not to delve too deep into schadenfreude over all this.
2459<@ctwelve> at some point there has to be a reconciliation
2460<@ctwelve> not until victory, but I don't wanna rub my nuts in faces over this
2461<AnotherLurker> yup.
2462<@ctwelve> I just wanna keep my country from burning down
2463<AnotherLurker> Every now and then I just get this thing where I remember 'Oh...holy shit these are people, whose choices actaully have consequences that affect me.'
2464<AnotherLurker> it sounds really stupid, but sometimes this shit is so absurd it doesnt seem real
2465---» Warscribe (quassel@Snoonet-vat.h1o.72sfkt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2466<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, speaking of burninng down the country. I've been keeping my eyes glued to the local politics
2467<AnotherLurker> PQ is trying to make a comeback and capitlize on the local liberal party burning its good will.
2468<AnotherLurker> I *really* *REALLY* fucking hope it doesn't happen.
2469<Hambone> as written by somebody who doesn't understand what being mentally healthy is like and wants to stigmatise it.  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Sd1acfEt/.facebook_1517501007003.jpg
2470<Hambone> I especially love the "and then everybody clapped" ending. 
2471<AnotherLurker> Hambone, I couldnt read past the first few lines
2472<AnotherLurker> what fucking lunatic even thinks this is how reality works.
2473<AnotherLurker> Ignoring the face the man has a great figure. Too bad it's attached to a nutcase.
2474<a_man_in_black> the smaller preview on phone looks like lady gaga
2475<a_man_in_black> oh
2476<a_man_in_black> so does full size image 
2477<Hambone> It's like... If the reply consisted in its entirety of "because I want to" then I'd be like "well shit my dude, you do you!" 
2478<Hambone> I'd respect that
2479<AnotherLurker> but then he couldnt look down his nose and mentally masturbait over how he's *progressive*
2480<a_man_in_black> it doesn't change the fact that they look like lady gaga, which is worse than all the other things wrong with what they did
2481<AnotherLurker> a_man_in_black, suit yourself
2482<AnotherLurker> Im just pretending the face doesnt exist
2483<AnotherLurker> problem solved for me
2484<Hambone> Heh 
2485---» Voychek (uid107269@AI-COM/RSPN.SIGNON) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2486«--- Warscribe (quassel@Snoonet-vat.h1o.72sfkt.IP) has Quit (Connection closed)
2487---» Warscribe (quassel@Snoonet-vat.h1o.72sfkt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2488<asd5a> Hambone: that is thatHappened material
2489<asd5a> It is a fantasy
2490»» @ctwelve reads up
2491<@ctwelve> that boy needs more meat and exercise in his life, and a healthier psychological environment
2492<@ctwelve> if he'd just dressed how he wanted to nobody would care
2493<@ctwelve> it's the whole wishcasting element to it that makes it creepy and sad
2494<asd5a> I bet an overwhelming majority doesn't even care enough to waste a thought on him
2495<asd5a> Maybe "huh. That's weird" and go on with their day
2496«--- nightinphone (uid250556@user/Nightingale) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2497<@ctwelve> Mhmm
2498<@ctwelve> but PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEE
2499<Voychek> ctwelve: link?
2500<@ctwelve> to what?
2501<AnotherLurker> to the twink
2502<@ctwelve> Oh
2503<@ctwelve> 10:04:23 <Hambone> as written by somebody who doesn't understand what being mentally healthy is like and wants to stigmatise it.  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Sd1acfEt/.facebook_1517501007003.jpg
2504<Voychek> wow
2505»» Jalapenyo pays attention to ctwelve 
2506<Voychek> that's like the whole "i stood up in a lecture and told the teacher that x was the only way and the whole class stood up and clapped!" meme
2507<Jalapenyo> to be fair that's a fantasy everyone with an idiot professor has had
2508<AnotherLurker> Voychek, ignoring the face, rate/10
2509<asd5a> There is nothing really to be gained from engaging that individual. They seem to be the kind that will cause huge drama over perceived slights
2510<asd5a> IMO.
2511<Voychek> AnotherLurker: like, 3-4?
2512<Jalapenyo> You kidding? Ignoring face that's an easy 7
2513<Voychek> for you
2514<Jalapenyo> did you just banepost me?
2515<Voychek> possibly
2516<Jalapenyo> kek
2517<AnotherLurker> rip
2518<AnotherLurker> haha oohh my
2519<AnotherLurker> Jalapenyo, Voychek ctwelve so I thought the little signature at the end was a joke
2520<AnotherLurker> because no way this is real right
2521<Jalapenyo> he didn't
2522<AnotherLurker> nope, turns out its real. the idjit signed with his real name lmao
2523<Jalapenyo> oh lordy
2524<AnotherLurker> and it links to a bunch of fun stuff
2525<Voychek> http://houseofalexzander.com/
2526<+gonzobot> Title: Elliott Alexzander
2527<Voychek> n a p a l m
2528<Jalapenyo> seems to have grown up a bit since that post
2529<AnotherLurker> Jalapenyo, not if you look at their twitter
2530»» You are now known as GamingWolfie
2531<Jalapenyo> :/
2532<Jalapenyo> that's too bad
2533<Jalapenyo> the tumblr actually seemed like a kinda goofy but pretty decent person 
2534<AnotherLurker> https://twitter.com/SJohns1990/status/726684631781806084
2535<+gonzobot> (AnotherLurker) @SJohns1990 (Johns): @ElloAlexzander your story touched my soul. https://t.co/C1VJcyI12C (1 year and 9 months ago)
2536»» AnotherLurker giggles
2537<AnotherLurker> he retweeted someone thinking it was a compliment, look at tthe guy has also retweeted
2538»» Jalapenyo shrugs
2539<Jalapenyo> meh, I got a comedy story, a cup of coffee, and Irish rebel music
2540<Jalapenyo> I'm set
2541<AnotherLurker> I have a math exam tommorow
2542<AnotherLurker> [pls send help]
2543<AnotherLurker> also aaaaa Jalapenyo birthday tommorow
2544<Jalapenyo> yer gonna be an adult AnotherLurker 
2545<Jalapenyo> an honest to goodness adult 
2546<Jalapenyo> katie's gonna scar you for life you poor soul 
2547<Voychek> r i p
2548<AnotherLurker> haha
2549<AnotherLurker> ogre too
2550<Jalapenyo> R I P
2551<AnotherLurker> I just realized
2552<AnotherLurker> Jalapenyo, I can get a gun license
2553<Jalapenyo> ooh
2554<AnotherLurker> cheap mosin and svt-40 time
2555<Jalapenyo> noice
2556<Jalapenyo> man I really need to get around to getting my license 
2557<Jalapenyo> I'm just in this stupid legal limbo
2558<AnotherLurker> not while you're in britbong land
2559<Jalapenyo> yeah but while I'm stateside
2560<AnotherLurker> becauuse you can only get bolt action centerfire there
2561<Jalapenyo> I'm in Boston like 10 months out of the year 
2562<AnotherLurker> or semi-auto shotties / rimfire
2563<Jalapenyo> and since I'm on campus I'm not a Mass resident
2564<AnotherLurker> >boston
2565<AnotherLurker> you poor poor soul
2566<Jalapenyo> so to apply for a permit I need my home license 
2567<Jalapenyo> but I can't get my home license without physically going to the courthouse
2568<Kralizec> It bothers me more that it should that  Canada gets autonuggets but the US can’t
2569<Jalapenyo> which I can't do, because I'm never physically in Virginia 
2570<AnotherLurker> tbh you're just in a mess of bad states and countries atm
2571<AnotherLurker> Kralizec, we also get really cool AR-platform shotguns
2572<AnotherLurker> since those arent prohibted
2573<AnotherLurker> https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1505/24729094231_53d4e717a5_o.jpg
2574---» RotoSequence (RotoSequenc@user/RotoSequence) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2575<@Patriarchy> [RotoSequence] [Bronyism Intensifies]
2576»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o RotoSequence)
2577<Kralizec> So do we. But we can’t into SVT-40s, because Reasons(tm)
2578<Kralizec> (Which are import restrictions IIRC)
2579<AnotherLurker> hmm
2580<AnotherLurker> Well I can also just get SBRs
2581<AnotherLurker> no tax stamps or anything. The only caveat is I cant change the barrel length, I can only have as from the factory
2582<AnotherLurker> so 14.5" ar-15s can be mail ordered to my house
2583<AnotherLurker> (but y'know, mag limits and no supressors iirc)
2584<Kralizec> Hopefully we won’t have to deal with that silly suppressor nonsense here soon.
2585<AnotherLurker> Im pretty sure SHARE is dead
2586<AnotherLurker> which is a shame
2587<Kralizec> Is it? Or is it just on the back burner?
2588<Kralizec> I never heard that it actually died, I just assumed that it would come up later after Congress is done unfucking itself
2589<Kralizec> Also, it’s looking like The Memo is going to be released either today or tomorrow
2590<AnotherLurker> Kralizec, I honestly have no idea
2591<AnotherLurker> Im hoping its just backburner
2592<AnotherLurker> I desperately wanna see the US move towards untangling itself from the retarded regulations imposed on it by the fed
2593<@ctwelve> https://twitter.com/TheCTwelve/status/959114592159907840
2594<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @TheCTwelve (Justin Croonenberghs): Today? I hope so. #ReleaseTheMemo and get it over with! https://t.co/iR8bweNe9j https://t.co/AMf8XjMakH (49 seconds ago)
2595<@RotoSequence> https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-01/republican-memo-likely-be-released-thursday
2596<+gonzobot> Title: Trump Has Read Nunes Memo, Will Sign Off And Send To Congress By Tomorrow | Zero Hedge
2597<@RotoSequence> https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/31/whoopsie-james-clapper-states-clinton-steele-dossier-was-used-for-fisa-surveillance-extension/
2598<+gonzobot> Title: Whoopsie: James Clapper States “Clinton-Steele Dossier” Was Used for FISA Surveillance “Extension”… | The Last Refuge
2599---» CreatureCoby (uid76249@user/CreatureCoby) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2600<Jalapenyo> https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27067400_412638065841098_4309216993746420079_n.png?oh=6abf42f074952d443e62363e7f081f60&oe=5AE36710
2601<Jalapenyo> I want one
2602---» HaplessOperator (uid190790@Phenotypic.Diversity.Reduction.Specialist) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2603»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h HaplessOperator)
2604<Kralizec> https://twitter.com/kurtschlichter/status/958147654193594368
2605<+gonzobot> (Kralizec) ✓@KurtSchlichter (Kurt Schlichter): I showed up to watch it live & all the muffins were gone. Every single one of them & the thing hadn't even started.… https://t.co/B59vT1LTyC (2 days and 17 hours ago)
2606<@RotoSequence> https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/958821117292175366
2607<+gonzobot> Title: DeIla_Gaetz1237 : "#WhereIsBillKristol today?@BillKr…" - Tweet
2608<@RotoSequence> Amtrak's official statement has the collision at "11:20" but IIRC they tend to play a little loose with the specific timings of things
2609<@RotoSequence> Still, that's a bit suspicious
2610<@ctwelve> Twitter shows times in your local timezone
2611«--- pins|mobile (uid116470@Snoonet-12e02v.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2612<Tox> > https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Sd1acfEt/.facebook_1517501007003.jpg < "minor emotional damage," "twisted societal gender norms" -- wait, so you hate being normal? God, how sad is this fuck's life
2613---» pins|mobile (uid116470@Snoonet-12e02v.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2614<CreatureCoby> that
2615<CreatureCoby> was disturbing
2616<CreatureCoby> ew
2617<Tox> CreatureCoby: wasn't it
2618»» CreatureCoby shudders
2619---» VAE_work (VAE@Snoonet-l95.e9n.pp3hl0.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2620<VAE_work> I think this needs no comment
2621<VAE_work> https://www.dailywire.com/news/26623/law-order-svu-episode-depicts-ann-coulter-amanda-prestigiacomo
2622<+gonzobot> Title: Law & Order SVU Episode Depicts Ann Coulter-Like Character Getting Violently Raped At Right-Wing Rally  | Daily Wire
2623<AnotherLurker> ...
2624<Jalapenyo> Id've said Lauren Southern but yeah pretty much
2625<Tox> Christ, they let the man walk...
2626<Tox> it was bad enough when they said that Benson of all people
2627<Tox> fucking goddamn Olivia Benson
2628<Tox> had to "struggle" to set her politics aside to help her
2629<Tox> Benson's been all but raped on camera before.
2630<Tox> Thre's no excuse.
2631<a_man_in_black> I thought Benson got kidnapped and raped more than once during svu's total run
2632<Tox> I dunno if she's actually been raped
2633<a_man_in_black> or at least once
2634<Tox> but what sticks out is her experience undercover at the prison
2635<Tox> where she actually had to go into therapy cause she got ptsd or similar
2636<Tilted> https://i.imgur.com/Hl8MMnX.png
2637<a_man_in_black> nah tox i seem to remember her getting taken by this serial rapist and it took em a few days to find her
2638<a_man_in_black> this was years ago that i saw it
2639<a_man_in_black> she eventually got loose and killed the guy, but the damage was already done
2640<asd5a> I'll leave a couple of links with no comment
2641<asd5a> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/framed-arrested-and-robbed-by-the-police-in-frankfurt_us_5a58f270e4b01ccdd48b5bbf
2642<+gonzobot> Title: Framed, Arrested and Robbed by the Police in Frankfurt: A Not-So Funny Thing Happened on my Way to the Forum in Delhi | HuffPost
2643«--- Tilted (Tilted@Snoonet-814.1jj.nju3qp.IP) has Quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2644<asd5a> https://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/74262/3844730
2645<+gonzobot> Title: BPOLD FRA: U.S. Passenger insults Federal Police Officers at Frankfurt Airport | Pressemitteilung Bundespolizeidirektion Flughafen Frankfurt am Main
2646<@RotoSequence> asd5a, you know what strikes me?
2647<@RotoSequence> Given how petrified the German authorities seem to be about being accused of being racist, I don't think any of this woman's concerns about "what would have happened to minorities" ring true at all
2648<asd5a> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Christine_Fair
2649<+gonzobot> Title: C. Christine Fair - Wikipedia
2650<asd5a> Someone that is a minority would have been handled the same
2651<asd5a> Given her position she should really known better
2652<asd5a> And you know, her own account fails to paint her in a redeemable light
2653<asd5a> That is extraordinary
2654<@RotoSequence> People don't derisiviely refer to the Huffington Post as Huffing Paint for nothing ;D
2655<VAE_work> asd5a any actual evidence in that she's wrong though?
2656<@RotoSequence> Still that is not a pleasant account of behavior by the Airport people or the police
2657<VAE_work> like,
2658<@RotoSequence> That said I'm not surprised
2659<VAE_work> even taking it with a grain of salt
2660<@RotoSequence> Abuse of power without systems of accountability always go like that
2661<@RotoSequence> Pretty much everywhere
2662<VAE_work> this seems to be a ) a total communications failure by a staff who didn't know english
2663<VAE_work> b) them being utter cunts
2664<CreatureCoby> i mean
2665<CreatureCoby> i've been through that airport
2666<CreatureCoby> it is utter fucking shite
2667<CreatureCoby> and has WAY too many gun-totting guards
2668<@RotoSequence> I believe her
2669<@RotoSequence> For the record
2670<VAE_work> besides, I've dealt with cunts like them
2671<VAE_work> leaving england for the last time was comedy gold for instance
2672<@RotoSequence> I suspect her opinion that her experience represents the better side of being on the receiving end of their bullshit is unlikely
2673---» Tilted (Tilted@Snoonet-814.1jj.nju3qp.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2674<VAE_work> RotoSequence... yeah, that's a bit off
2675<VAE_work> in fact , given one of them was a S Kapoor
2676<VAE_work> and another was ..another incomprehensible name?
2677<VAE_work> The one case the cunts could lord it over whitey
2678<VAE_work> which is exactly what happened to us, you know, a big group including a 75 year old grandpa
2679<VAE_work> because who can two niggers jump up and act high and mighty against if not a Slav family  departing the UK lol
2680<CreatureCoby> ...
2681<VAE_work> where one person speaks decent english and two don't understand at all 
2682<@RotoSequence> ...
2683<@RotoSequence> VAE_work, racism is not okay.
2684»» @ctwelve reads up
2685<@ctwelve> VAE_work: memes are one thing, outright racism is another. You are warned.
2686<VAE_work> I'm referring to a specific set of two individuals
2687<VAE_work> They thankfully don't represent an entire race
2688<@ctwelve> that is not how you wrote it, and you know it
2689<@ctwelve> you *remain* warned. Phrase more carefully in the future.
2690<VAE_work> That's how I did write it, but eh, you call the shots.
2691<a_man_in_black> the word is just too hot to use that way in a channel with US folks man. sucks that it is that way but people get killed for saying it here if they aren't careful 
2692<@ctwelve> eh, it's done. let it be.
2693»» a_man_in_black fills chat with reeces
2694<VAE_work> Anyhow, said experience included almost missing the train due to a thorough luggage search because big families are usually the kind of people who bring bombs and weapons onto trains, the comedy gold of said two individuals (and I use that term loosely) thoroughly inspecting a slide rule because they clearly haven't seen one in their life and it could be a weapon, and finally ,trying to confiscate a stanley fixed blade utility knife (whose f
2695<VAE_work> ixed blade is about 3cm long) - I requested it, disassembled it on the spot and handed over the blade because they aren't going to get something useful for their cuntbaggery
2696»» Tox fills a_man_in_black with reese's
2697<a_man_in_black> I got reeces pieces with smaller reeces in em
2698<VAE_work> a_man_in_black, fair enough. I guess this is a bit different from other places. Anyhow.
2699<VAE_work> with that in mind, while she obviously picked a poor fight, I find her account credible with the reservation expressed above.
2700<a_man_in_black> that sucks they wasted that much time on search on a family tho
2701»» RotoSequence has changed the topic to: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Channel Rules: https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/ref/faq/irc // Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<BREAKING NEWS  ++ NUNES MEMO ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
2702<Jalapenyo> Did the memo get released?
2703<@RotoSequence> Not yet
2704<@RotoSequence> Looks like it won't happen until tomorrow
2705<@ctwelve> Trump declassified it
2706<@ctwelve> that just broke
2707»» RotoSequence has changed the topic to: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Channel Rules: https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/ref/faq/irc // Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<++ NUNES MEMO SOON™ ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
2708<@ctwelve> so it's up to the House intel folks
2709<Tox> apparently Wray might walk over it
2710<Tox> but why
2711<@ctwelve> because he doesn't want to see his agency destroyed
2712<@ctwelve> his interests are the Agency
2713<@ctwelve> it doesn't matter if the man is good or bad
2714<@ctwelve> he's police, and I can tell you from martial experience that those tribal ties are DEEP
2715<VAE_work> can't Trump push it forth anyway?
2716<Tox> Shouldn't he be more interested in the integrity of the FBI?
2717<@ctwelve> like, if something threatened to destroy my Air Force?
2718<@ctwelve> I'd probably be the same
2719<@RotoSequence> Trump could unilaterally declassify it but he's attempting to follow procedure
2720<@ctwelve> Tox: you can't have integrity if a thing dies
2721<VAE_work> well
2722<@ctwelve> It's important that this remain a legislative product
2723<@ctwelve> all trump is doing is saying he approves of the declassification
2724<@ctwelve> they don't even need him to approve
2725<@ctwelve> they can declassify it on their own if they really wanted to
2726<@ctwelve> but again, this is an attempt to dot all i and cross all t
2727<Tox> You think this could absolutely destroy the FBI forever if something bad pops out of it? Even the rank and file agents at the satellite office down the road from me?
2728<@ctwelve> I don't honestly /know/
2729<@ctwelve> I can only suss out possibilities based on how people are acting
2730<@RotoSequence> I suspect it will destroy the reputation of the FBI and the careers of anyone whose advanced from the trenches in the past decade or more
2731<@ctwelve> I dunno
2732<@ctwelve> there's a lotta hype train
2733<@ctwelve> but the thing is?
2734<Tox> hrm
2735<@ctwelve> if it has that much power
2736<@ctwelve> it NEEDS to happen
2737<VAE_work> Well, given it actually happened, is that a bad thing? From anyone not FBI's side
2738<VAE_work> yeah
2739<VAE_work> as ctwelve says
2740<@ctwelve> People like Wray won't be able to see the larger implications, Tox 
2741<Ogre> ...you're assuming the FBI had a decent reputation before this.
2742<@RotoSequence> Ogre, it had a veneer
2743<@ctwelve> all he may be seeing ^^ it did, Ogre. Maybe not on your/our circles
2744<@ctwelve> but that's not what matters here
2745<@ctwelve> what matters is what the broad body politic thinks
2746<Ogre> they've been sliding down the shitter since they covered up Horuchi.
2747<@ctwelve> Again, for you, sure. For your circles, sure.
2748<@ctwelve> They are not the body politic.
2749<@ctwelve> tehre is a genuine danger to all of this, too
2750<@RotoSequence> The General Public doesn't know
2751<Ogre> He. Shot. A. Baby. On. Purpose.
2752<@ctwelve> if it is /really/ that explosive?
2753<Ogre> and they blocked the prosecution.
2754<@RotoSequence> The whole point, and the only point, is that The Public doesn't know
2755<@ctwelve> Ogre: does. not. matter. The facts do not matter. at all. in any way. What *matters* is what people *believe*
2756<Ogre> sorry, fair point.
2757<@ctwelve> yeah. My hottest of hot takes is this
2758»» Ogre is a bit salty about shit like ruby ridge.
2759<@ctwelve> take with a metric ton of salt, but:
2760<@ctwelve> if the memo is a nothingburger, all this drama makes EVERYONE look pants-on-head retarded
2761<Ogre> hey, you're in luck, I'm already giving away free salt.
2762<VAE_work> no surprise. I read about Ruby Ridge and it's... ridiculously awful.
2763<@ctwelve> and they will all pay for it with more electoral chaos
2764<@ctwelve> on the other hand, if this is as explosive as the hype machine thinks it is
2765<@ctwelve> and given the way notRepublicans are reacting, it may well be
2766<Tox> if it IS a nothingburger, why were the Democrats all gangbusters to keep it hidden, why was Schiff being such a cockhammer about it
2767<@ctwelve> then this could very well destroy the FBI
2768<Ogre> ^^^
2769<AnotherLurker> ...
2770<@ctwelve> and that is dangerous
2771<AnotherLurker> Drain the swamp?
2772<@ctwelve> well
2773<VAE_work> ^
2774<@ctwelve> it's more like lighting the swamp on fire
2775<Tox> there's either something there
2776<@ctwelve> and exploding it
2777<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, gotta start somewhere
2778<Tox> or the democrats are just that eager to cockblock anything this admin wants to do
2779<AnotherLurker> swamps are full of methane afterall
2780<@ctwelve> sure, but it has consquences 
2781<@ctwelve> Tox: correct
2782<VAE_work> The problem is the tentacles that crawl out of the swamp
2783<AnotherLurker> oh absolutely.
2784<@ctwelve> I fear that may be the mundane reality of it.
2785<VAE_work> and trip you up every so often
2786<Ogre> yeah, the people who would be theoretically harmed by the memo are losing their goddamn minds. there's gotta be something.
2787<VAE_work> I mean
2788<@ctwelve> It could liteally be nothing more than "but Trump"
2789<AnotherLurker> I wasnt under the delusion that attempting to fix broken shit results in greas covered hand
2790<AnotherLurker> s/results/wouldn't result
2791<+gonzobot> Correction, <AnotherLurker> I wasnt under the delusion that attempting to fix broken shit wouldn't result in greas covered hand
2792<@RotoSequence> Destroying the FBI is probably going to obliterate the prosecution of a lot of cases and the career of Justices is often weighed by their rate of successful prosecutions in their circles
2793<@RotoSequence> Which probably explains a lot of it
2794<@ctwelve> Right
2795<VAE_work> Trump's been under constant bullshit attacks and maybe a show of teeth is what's needed
2796<@ctwelve> and that will do manifest harm to any Justice system we have left
2797<@ctwelve> Guys like Wray know this
2798<@ctwelve> and he is, after all, charged with protecting the FBI's interests
2799<@ctwelve> him doing what he does is *what he is supposed to do* as a sworn officer
2800<@ctwelve> If that oath puts him in conflict with his oath to the President, realisticaly the only thing he can do is resign
2801<Tox> doesn't that mean that he too believes something here can damage the fbi?
2802<@ctwelve> so don't go too hard on him
2803<@ctwelve> yeah, it does
2804<@RotoSequence> Tox, yes; he's read the memo
2805<@RotoSequence> The Deputy Director was removed and escorted out by police basically immediately after Wray saw it
2806<@ctwelve> So don't go too hard on Wray for this. Wait to see the memo.
2807<Tox> Nah, I know
2808<Tox> I was just curious
2809<@ctwelve> He may well be caught between terrible forces and there may be no correct answer for him.
2810<@ctwelve> RotoSequence: yup, and that makes me think he's trying to do the right thing
2811<asd5a> excuse the delay, my phone lost power
2812<@ctwelve> even if he is an imperfect human being, like we all are
2813»» @ctwelve fills asd5a with ZigBee
2814<Tox> Why was the deputy director removed because of it
2815»» Ogre gasses the bees.
2816<@RotoSequence> We don't know why yet
2817<@RotoSequence> We can make educated guesses but we'll need to see the memo's contents to know
2818<VAE_work> yeah
2819<VAE_work> this is looking like we're doing the study on the length of emperor's nose
2820<asd5a> VAE_work: there is evidence she was wrong though: The U.S. passenger reacted angrily towards these suggestions and became increasingly uncooperative. She began to insult the Federal Police officers, by calling them, among other names, "fucking bastards" and "fucking German Nazi police", as witnesses can confirm.
2821<VAE_work> Did she?
2822<VAE_work> she claims otherwise and well...
2823<Ogre> side note - in regards to the SVU episode - they do that shit all the time, getting stupid political. they did gamergate the same way.
2824<VAE_work> as she points out it's not even something that sounds like native speaker's english
2825<Ogre> VAE_work - link?
2826<asd5a> well, it is in her interest to paint herself as victim
2827<Ogre> nm
2828<Ogre> found it.
2829<VAE_work> <asd5a> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/framed-arrested-and-robbed-by-the-police-in-frankfurt_us_5a58f270e4b01ccdd48b5bbf
2830<+gonzobot> Title: Framed, Arrested and Robbed by the Police in Frankfurt: A Not-So Funny Thing Happened on my Way to the Forum in Delhi | HuffPost
2831<VAE_work> of course it is, but it's also in their interest to lie and cover their arses
2832<@ctwelve> I think I'm gonna hold off on this story
2833<@ctwelve> I don't know enough
2834<@ctwelve> and I'm too busy spamming F5
2835<VAE_work> f5?
2836<Jalapenyo> refresh
2837<@RotoSequence> Default shortcut for refresh in web browsers
2838<VAE_work> yeah, but what on
2839---» Tehpillowstar (doublemagic@user/Tehpillowstar) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2840<@RotoSequence> Probably the_donald for the nunes memo :P
2841<VAE_work> ah
2842<VAE_work> derp
2843<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/nh6t3lwicnd01.png
2844<asd5a> VAE_work: there are witnesses that dont belong to the federal police or airport
2845<VAE_work> asd5a - I feel like the initial parts of it arose through mutual miscomprehension but on an international airport that's already shitty
2846<VAE_work> Are there? 
2847<Ogre> "ithout explaining a thing, they began taking all items out of my suitcase in front of all customers. Again, had they any actual fear about explosives, "
2848<Ogre> that's a valid point.
2849<VAE_work> yeah
2850<Ogre> either the german TSA are as retarded as the US ones, or they didn't think there was a bomb either, and were just using petty authority to fuck with an annoying passenger.
2851<VAE_work> again, it reminds me of the encounter I described above with the difference that standard eastern european ingrained response to authorities is to nod, shut up and hope they blow over you soon.
2852<VAE_work> so it didn't escalate
2853<Ogre> yes, respect their authoritai.... or else.
2854<asd5a> Well, isn't one supposed to follow law and regulation?
2855<Ogre> and the shit about a solid deoderant being a liquid is interesting.
2856<VAE_work> asd5a as you correctly stated, law and regulation
2857<VAE_work> when someone is overstepping their power to fuck with you specifically
2858<Ogre> asd5a - with all respect, man... clearly, you've never pissed off a cop before.
2859<VAE_work> ^
2860<Ogre> or any government agent.
2861<VAE_work> or anyone else with legal power
2862<Jalapenyo> Law and regulation is not followed oh... I'd say 80% of the time. It's impractical. 
2863<VAE_work> not just that
2864<VAE_work> but it's easy to set someone up on some technicality
2865<Ogre> impossible, really. the budget couldn't support it. 
2866<Jalapenyo> Like, cashiers are supposed to check your signature on a receipt against the one on your card
2867<Ogre> Rand had the right of it. You control innocent men by manufacturing criminality.
2868<VAE_work> again, for the more plausible parts of her account... as she says - the 'bomb' thing prevented her from stashing away her bottles according to procedure
2869<asd5a> Ogre: i did; nothing came of it
2870<VAE_work> and then they tried to fuck her over on not following procedure on them
2871<VAE_work> Ogre it's even better
2872<VAE_work> you deliberately pass laws that everyone breaks
2873<VAE_work> not care about them
2874<VAE_work> so there's not a backlash
2875<VAE_work> then if there's someone you need to deal with?
2876<VAE_work> boom!
2877<VAE_work> suddenly the law gets remembered
2878<VAE_work> like Marine Le Pen
2879<VAE_work> who they tried to sue for being a terrorist supporter
2880<VAE_work> for uh
2881<Ogre> "He bellowed that he would arrest me if I insisted upon filing complaint."
2882<VAE_work> showing videos of ISIS atrocities on facebook years before the election
2883<Ogre> wait
2884<Ogre> asd5a - you're telling me you pissed off a cop, and nothing happened to you?
2885<VAE_work> I wonder where he's from
2886<Ogre> this is a story I feel -deeply compelled- to hear.
2887<asd5a> Ogre: nothing significant
2888<Ogre> please, tell me the story.
2889<asd5a> I was being a little shit and got a stern talking to
2890<Ogre> age?
2891<Ogre> also, what year, and what country? I'm curious.
2892<asd5a> teenager, germany
2893<asd5a> must be around the turn of the millenium
2894<asd5a> have been*
2895<Ogre> then I think you may have confused 'pissed off' with 'mildly annoyed'.
2896<Ogre> also, on the huffpo thing?
2897<Ogre> I am completely unsuprised, and I suspect the woman's account is accurate.
2898<Ogre> and I hope this turns into an epic shit storm. 
2899<VAE_work> &
2900<VAE_work> ^
2901<asd5a> I really doubt it.
2902<Ogre> you still have all your teeth, right?
2903<asd5a> no
2904<VAE_work> Ogre - a colleague of mine got a fun experience like that incidentally
2905<asd5a> lost one due an accident
2906<VAE_work> he was going home rather drunk, got stopped by a patrol, carded ( this was during socialist times, he was in his 20s)
2907<Ogre> ha ha.
2908<Ogre> no, seriously, if the cop didn't beat your teeth out of your mouth, you must not have pissed him off.
2909<VAE_work> and well, it was winter and the cop clearly was feeling shitty about having to be stuck in a poorly heated VAZ
2910<VAE_work> since like, the conversation went
2911<asd5a> Ogre: it might be hard to believe, but not all cops are thugs in uniform
2912<VAE_work> something along the lines of "Where are you going?" "Home."  "Yeah, the fuck you are."  and followed a punch that broke his glasses.
2913<VAE_work> and then they drove off
2914<asd5a> In fact, i wouldn't describe the overwhelming majority of police i had contact with
2915<Ogre> then why do they give briefings to american servicemen about never, ever, -ever- pissing off the german police?
2916<VAE_work> there was another occassion the cops gave him a lift in a similar situation - it  really depends on who you meet
2917<@ctwelve> Ogre: because International Incident
2918<VAE_work> I suspect asd5a was super lucky
2919<@ctwelve> that is not something we want to cause with a host nation, ever.
2920<Ogre> with more or less the direct wording of "if you make them angry, they will beat the shit out of you" in the briefing.
2921<asd5a> (riot police is different, that position attracts a different type of person)
2922<Ogre> eh, I dunno.
2923<@ctwelve> Ogre: same reason we tell Marines all the terrible stuff that will happen to them if they eat too many MREs
2924<asd5a> Ogre: ... that sounds like fud
2925<@ctwelve> :D
2926<Ogre> ctwelve - I was just thinking that.
2927<Ogre> shit, they didn't even let us off the plane in germany, and we got that briefing.
2928<@ctwelve> Also, let's be honest: servicemembers in the late 80s/early 90s
2929<@ctwelve> they wren't exactly known for their excptional manners
2930<Ogre> all we did was sit in the goddamn plane while it replenished, and went back in the air.
2931<@ctwelve> do you remember if it was a Lockheed L-1101?
2932<@ctwelve> this is a weird question I know, but I'm curiousd
2933<Ogre> I never saw the outside.
2934<Ogre> It was the biggest airliner I've ever been in.
2935<Ogre> dual aisle.
2936<@ctwelve> tri-jet or 4 engines?
2937<@ctwelve> there were only 2 tri-jet heavies ever made
2938<Ogre> two seats, aisle, 4 seats, aisle, two seats.
2939<@ctwelve> the MD-10 and the L-1101
2940<Ogre> I don't know, I didn't get a window seat.
2941<@ctwelve> oh well
2942<Ogre> this would have been 1990, I think.
2943<AnotherLurker> [ctwelve's fun is quietly dashed]
2944<Ogre> sarry.
2945<@ctwelve> heh
2946<@ctwelve> is okay
2947<@ctwelve> tri-jets are weird aircraft
2948<@ctwelve> they were a thing before ETOPS was really accepted
2949<Ogre> but yeh, they came in, and while we're sitting there, -not getting off the plane-... made everyone wake up, and get a safety briefing for a country we were not setting foot in.
2950<AnotherLurker> "We know you cant leave the aircraft BUT WE KNOW YOU'LL FUCK IT UP SOMEHOW."
2951<AnotherLurker> "so sit here and learn how not to fuck up. k?"
2952<Ogre> apparently.
2953<AnotherLurker> :shrug:
2954<VAE_work> Lurker, even better
2955<VAE_work> "Here's how you won't fuck up. But, knowing you, we've taken some extra steps."
2956<VAE_work> "What?"
2957<VAE_work> "That's right, while you were being briefed how not to fuck up we actually finished off and so you won't get a chance to do it anyways."
2958<@ctwelve> I've used that trick
2959<@ctwelve> Went ahead and finished a project before the hapless counterpart could fuck it up
2960<CreatureCoby> kek
2961<Ogre> random thought.
2962<Ogre> people rail about the 'gravy train' and 'people wanting free shit', and the 'free shit army'.
2963<Ogre> I just realized something.
2964<Ogre> 'free shit' is a myth.
2965<Ogre> there is no such thing as free shit. There is only your shit, and other people's shit.
2966<CreatureCoby> well
2967<CreatureCoby> if i give you my shit
2968<Ogre> free shit doesn't exist. 
2969<CreatureCoby> wouldnt that be free?
2970<Ogre> no, because it -was- your shit, now it's my shit.
2971<Ogre> there's no transitive state.
2972---» theAncientOne (uid118176@Snoonet-tur6pd.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
2973<Ogre> all the free stuff one gets from the government isn't free.
2974<Ogre> it was someone else's stuff, and then the government took it, by force, and gave it to someone else.
2975<Ogre> There is no free shit. It's all someone else's shit.
2976<theAncientOne> TANSTAAFL
2977<Ogre> exactly
2978<Ogre> also, TANJ
2979<AnotherLurker> I mean relative to the person receiving it, it may be free if they are low enough income to not pay tax I guess
2980<Ogre> no
2981<AnotherLurker> because they're not putting anything into the magic entity giving them money/stamps
2982<AnotherLurker> i dunno
2983»» Ogre thwaps AnotherLurker
2984<@Blackknight64> No
2985<@Blackknight64> Everything costs something, somewhere
2986<Ogre> ^
2987<theAncientOne> i have a very hard time not rolling my eyes when i hear people start talking about social justice.  I mean...if you're into actual, you know, *justice*, one would think you're into letting people keep their own shit.
2988<AnotherLurker> okay fair enough
2989<@Blackknight64> God, how the fuck do you survive in your profession?
2990<theAncientOne> me?
2991<theAncientOne> lol
2992<Ogre> yeah.
2993<@Blackknight64> Yeah, you dude.
2994<Ogre> why haven't you been quietly murdered for the Glorious Revolution, Comerade?
2995<@Blackknight64> I know your world, bro
2996<theAncientOne> by consistently being right (in both senses) and picking my fights
2997<@Blackknight64> I live with it
2998<AnotherLurker> Ogre, is glorious revolution the right term?
2999<AnotherLurker>  I thought thats what the brits called cromwells fuckery
3000<@Blackknight64> In theAncientOne's case?
3001<@Blackknight64> Yeah, it totally is
3002<Ogre> don't mistake me, I love that theAncientOne is doing what he's doing.
3003<@Blackknight64> He's absolutely the exception to the rule in social work
3004<Ogre> but I am frequently startled that his personal positions have not had him quietly murdered. and that's neither joke, nor metaphor.
3005<@Blackknight64> Well, to be fair
3006<Ogre> still, I'm super pleased that you're still alive, and doing your thing, theAncientOne
3007<theAncientOne> What's really fun is pointing out in room full of people who are rabidly committed to diversity that as a conservative white man, I'm /utterly/ in the minority everywhere I go in my agency.
3008<@Blackknight64> The rest of his profession doesn't have the stones
3009<theAncientOne> they /always/ equivocate..."Well, but blah blah something privilege blah blah"
3010<@Blackknight64> There's a reason Erin nevwr brings me around her colleagues
3011<Ogre> SEIU? dude, they curb-stomped a dude so bad he's still in a wheelchair... in public.
3012»» AnotherLurker is now known as AnotherLurker|tutoring
3013<theAncientOne> I know
3014<@Blackknight64> Wait
3015<@Blackknight64> You're with SEIU?
3016<theAncientOne> and if you think I don't make a point of making uncomfortable jokes about us being purple people beaters....
3017<theAncientOne> yes
3018<Ogre> shit.
3019<Ogre> I'm sorry.
3020<theAncientOne> figure that one out
3021<theAncientOne> lol
3022<Ogre> I didn't mean to blow your privacy, man.
3023<theAncientOne> nah
3024»» @Blackknight64 does not even know how to process this
3025<theAncientOne> it's all good, i'm not terribly private about that part of it
3026»» Ogre figured it out a while ago, but didn't say anything.
3027<theAncientOne> lol
3028<Ogre> until now.
3029<Ogre> by mistake.
3030<theAncientOne> i've said as much openly
3031<theAncientOne> so you're not blowing anything up
3032<Ogre> oh. cool.
3033<Ogre> thanks for letting me off the hook, man.
3034<theAncientOne> As with anything that involves people, there are good and bad sides to being public-sector union
3035<theAncientOne> you guys want to see the latest cancer/headache I'm fielding calls on?
3036<theAncientOne> .g oregon secretary of state foster care audit
3037<@Blackknight64> I just knew you were in social work.
3038<+gonzobot> (theAncientOne) http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/CHILDREN/Pages/cw-audit.aspx -- Performance Audit – Foster Care in Oregon: Chronic management failures and high caseloads jeopardize the…
3039<@Blackknight64> Hooboy
3040<theAncientOne> If that audit doesn't PISS YOU OFF you're not human
3041<theAncientOne> and the worst part about it?  /nothing/ in that audit was much of a surprise to me.
3042<theAncientOne> for once, the people in the crosshairs are the ones that need to be there
3043---» Navistar (IHC@user/IHC) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3044<isoraqathedh> Oh boy. GPU sales are apparently so hot that GPU manufacturers are scrambling to try and ban miners from buying them because they keep [a] buying them faster than they can produce them (!) and [b] returning them battered and half-dead but still under warranty.
3045<theAncientOne> career managers invested only in protecting their own little fiefdoms
3046<VAE_work> silly question
3047<VAE_work> what's SEIU
3048<VAE_work> not familiar with US acronyms 
3049<theAncientOne> Service Employees International Union
3050<isoraqathedh> Not to be confused with "seiyuu" (voice actor).
3051<theAncientOne> In my case - public sector union representing government workers in the executive branch
3052<theAncientOne> lol
3053<isoraqathedh> (Which is what it soudns like in my head.)
3054<@Blackknight64> Shocking, theAncientOne 
3055<theAncientOne> Blackknight64 read the second paragraph on page 20
3056<Ogre> SEUI also has a rep for being heavy in politics, and, well... kinda dirty. Sorry, theAncientOne
3057«--- IH (IHC@user/IHC) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
3058<theAncientOne> no apologies necessary
3059<Ogre> think 'teamsters' but without the trucks or the mafia.
3060<theAncientOne> that's absolutely true
3061<Ogre> but with more DNC.
3062<theAncientOne> I'm pleased though that 503 was the /only/ one in the International that didn't endorse Clinton ahead of the primary
3063<theAncientOne> that was, in a lot of ways, my doing.
3064<VAE_work> oh right.
3065<theAncientOne> i'm pleased to say
3066<VAE_work> ...teamsters?
3067<VAE_work> another words I'm not clear on
3068<VAE_work> but yeah
3069<VAE_work> from what I keep reading
3070<theAncientOne> they were always going to back the (D), but at least they waited until there was a clear front runner
3071<katiedid> https://i.imgur.com/DqruSU6.jpg
3072<VAE_work> a lot of US unions, especially public sector, seem to suck the D very hard
3073<VAE_work> and get involved in shit they shouldn't , especially when member money's going there
3074<theAncientOne> historically, that's because the labor agenda and the democratic party have played nicely
3075<theAncientOne> tha'ts no longer true though
3076<VAE_work> ^
3077<VAE_work> Since Clinton , dems don't care about labour
3078<@Blackknight64> Gimme just a few.  Bout to take my smoke bream.
3079<theAncientOne> the private sector unions were pretty much thrown under the bus by Clinton, yeah
3080<Ogre> VAE_work - the teamsters were the trucker's union in the us, and are notorious for being fully owned by the mafia.
3081<theAncientOne> and now the labor unions are pretty conservative
3082<VAE_work> Didn't know that, Ogre
3083<@Blackknight64> Yep.
3084<theAncientOne> .g jimmy hoffa
3085<+gonzobot> (theAncientOne) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Hoffa -- James Riddle Hoffa (February 14, 1913 – disappeared July 30, 1975) was an American labor union leader who…
3086<Ogre> google "Jimmy Hoffa"
3087<Ogre> ...
3088<@Blackknight64> Their power is largely broken in the industry.
3089<theAncientOne> ^^
3090<Ogre> yeah
3091<@ctwelve> Labor unions are very different than the EU experience, broadly
3092<@Blackknight64> Thank fucking God.
3093<theAncientOne> yes
3094<theAncientOne> and there is an enormous difference between the ones that are private sector, and the public sector government workers
3095<@Blackknight64> But they still exist, and they're still as dirty as ever.
3096<@ctwelve> and between states, too
3097<theAncientOne> SEIU represents a /lot/ of government workers
3098<@ctwelve> right-to-work and the like
3099<theAncientOne> welp. time to go get my social worker on.
3100<theAncientOne> wish me luck, i'm goin in!
3101<theAncientOne> lol
3102<@Blackknight64> Good hunting
3103<VAE_work> good luck dude
3104<katiedid> And his son is still running the Teamsters!
3105<@ctwelve> Good rundown for those who need it: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/373656.php
3106<+gonzobot> Title: Ace of Spades HQ
3107<@ctwelve> (about the Memo and stuffs)
3108<@ctwelve> good luck theAncientOne 
3109<katiedid> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7ui8or/living_in_their_head_rent_free_cnn_asking_did_you/
3110<+gonzobot> (katiedid) Living in their head rent free: CNN asking 'Did you notice that Trump... : The_Donald - 75 comments, 4,996 points - article10ECHR, 9h ago
3111<@ctwelve> it's actually kinda pathetic at this point, ain't it?
3112<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/ixxqibw5xnd01.jpg
3113<Ogre>  I'd use 'terrifying'
3114<Ogre> they're shredding the nation in their panic and dispair, and people are gonna get hurt.
3115<Ogre> I might make jokes, but I don't think people should get hurt, just because I don't agree with them politically.
3116<Tehpillowstar> what kind of fuckin' world we live in
3117<Tehpillowstar> when we rake people across the coals when they disagree from the political party line and everyone cheers
3118<Ogre> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld
3119<+gonzobot> Title: Crapsack World - TV Tropes
3120<Ogre> happy to help.
3121<Tehpillowstar> and yet we celebrate freedom of speech and diversity
3122<Ogre> and, to be fair, this isn't so much raking people over the coals for disagreeing.
3123<Tehpillowstar> I'm exaggerating, but fair point.
3124<Ogre> it's investigating and prosecuting people who have broken the law, in some cases, for as much as 50 years.
3125<@ctwelve> Assange is dead right RotoSequence 
3126<@ctwelve> it's remarkable
3127<Ogre> ctwelve - link?
3128<@ctwelve> https://i.redd.it/ixxqibw5xnd01.jpg
3129<@ctwelve> what RotoSequence just posted
3130<Ogre> Tehpillowstar - also mixed in with your position.
3131<Ogre> I missed that.
3132<Ogre> brb, bio
3133<Tehpillowstar> mixed in with my position?
3134<@Blackknight64> Well.
3135<@Blackknight64> I'm hanging tight to see what happened.
3136<Tehpillowstar> ctwelve, that seems like the Streisand effect in motion
3137<@Blackknight64> But frankly, charges need to be in order.
3138<katiedid> That /had/ to be intentional
3139<%HaplessOperator> Yeah. They have this drought 
3140<katiedid> Don't tweet, cause the media to notice
3141<katiedid> And they have to go back to his last tweet
3142<katiedid> Which is "Lowest black unemployment"
3143<%HaplessOperator> "What was the last thing he said, put it up" 
3144<%HaplessOperator> "oh."
3145<katiedid> Which Dems didn't clap or stand for
3146<katiedid> BLACK dems
3147<Tehpillowstar> (Funny enough, there's a detailed image of Barbra Streisand's house on the wikipedia page on the Streisand effect.)
3148<%HaplessOperator> "Hey, Black Caucus, your people are doing really well."
3149<%HaplessOperator> "Man, fuck them house niggas" - The Black Caucus
3150<%HaplessOperator> I literally cannot understand this mindset
3151<%HaplessOperator> Is that not the point 
3152<%HaplessOperator> Why are you angry that blacks are doing better 
3153<%HaplessOperator> Why are you angry that unemployment is down 
3154<Ogre> because -they- can't take credit.
3155<CreatureCoby> http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/01/technology/flamethrower-elon-musk-boring-company-sold-out/index.html
3156<+gonzobot> Title: Boring Company: Elon Musk says he has sold out of flamethrowers - Feb. 1, 2018
3157<CreatureCoby> I CANT
3158<CreatureCoby> I 
3159<Ogre> also, you can't farm votes and poverty pimp if your victims are doing well.
3160<%HaplessOperator> You were angry about the divisiveness, but now you're angry that the SOTU was well received by the entire country 
3161<CreatureCoby> the idiot
3162<CreatureCoby> in the video
3163<Ogre> it's not even a goddamn flamethrower.
3164<Ogre> it's junk.
3165<CreatureCoby> is like "we just had the worst fires
3166<CreatureCoby>  in cali history
3167<CreatureCoby> and now you selling 500 dollar flamethrowers?
3168<CreatureCoby> NO
3169<CreatureCoby> YOU IDIOT
3170<CreatureCoby> IF I WANTED TO START A  FIRE
3171<CreatureCoby> THERE ARE EASIER AND CHEAPER WAYS TO MAKE IT FAR LARGER THAN THE POWER OF THIS THING
3172<%HaplessOperator> Ogre: Have you ever seen the website 
3173<CreatureCoby> asdkl;fhgghgasklgje;rhgiog[arhgasd
3174<CreatureCoby> gpwerpigha'
3175<%HaplessOperator> It's a massive joke
3176»» CreatureCoby is angry
3177<Ogre> HaplessOperator - which one?
3178<%HaplessOperator> He's selling fire extinguishers for 30 dollars to go with it
3179<%HaplessOperator> The flamethrowers are nothing but a meme Musk came up with
3180<%HaplessOperator> They're laughing about it on the website they sell them on
3181<Ogre> ah
3182<Ogre> anyhow.
3183<Tehpillowstar> i know people who bought the things
3184<%HaplessOperator> They sold out, though
3185<%HaplessOperator> And it's funding space travel
3186<%HaplessOperator> So fuck it
3187<Ogre> the big problem with the dems is that they're making the majority of their votes on "look at how badly you're being treated, vote for me, and I'll give you stuff."
3188<Ogre> can't raise a crop of racism and division when your vics are showing the highest recorded employment numbers in history.
3189<%HaplessOperator> Hilariously, one of the top trending Twitter tags is "DEEP STATE IN PANIC" 
3190<Ogre> and that's really all the dems are selling. racism, division, identity politics, white guilt, and wealth redistribution.
3191<%Wannie> since you all claim that the current economic high is thanks to trump, here a good article about that http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/trump-one-year-on-us-economy-president-inauguration-job-creation-dollar-a8162366.html
3192<+gonzobot> Title: Trump one year on: Can the President really take credit for US economic success and record highs reached by the stock markets? | The Independent
3193<Ogre> wait, you mean it was bush's fault, until Obama built that?
3194<CreatureCoby> LOL
3195<CreatureCoby> the economy isnt really affected by what president we have
3196<Ogre> it is, just not the way you think.
3197<CreatureCoby> except in terms of confidence by consumers and investors
3198<Ogre> ^ exactly
3199<CreatureCoby> and where they put their money
3200<Ogre> and that's -huge-.
3201<Ogre> Yuge even.
3202«--- Nightingale (J@user/Nightingale) has Quit (NickServ (GHOST command used by Nightingayle))
3203---» Nightingale (J@user/Nightingale) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3204»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h Nightingale)
3205<Ogre> when Obama was elected, all the investors stampeded for the exits, because Obama made it clear he was going to 'soak the rich' to buy bread and circuses.
3206<Ogre> and the economy -died-, literally overnight.
3207«--- Tilted (Tilted@Snoonet-814.1jj.nju3qp.IP) has Quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
3208<katiedid> Wannie: https://i.redd.it/uil9o5di9nd01.jpg
3209<Ogre> as soon as trump was confirmed elected, the stockmarket jumped like 500 points in 15 minutes, IIRC, or something insane like that.
3210<katiedid> And policy decisions /can/ have an immediate effect on the economy
3211<Ogre> because Trump strongly signalled he was pro-business.
3212<@ctwelve> The economy is largely built on unicorn farts and feels
3213<@ctwelve> the underlying basics do matter a lot
3214<@ctwelve> but the momentum is driven by the animal spirit
3215<Ogre> it's not even stated policy, just the "If elected, I will..." is enough to trigger it.
3216<Ogre> economics is seriously weird voodoo.
3217<Ogre> but the left cannot lay an 8 year massive depression at the feet of bush, and then strive to claim responsibility for the right's success as soon as the right are in office.
3218<@ctwelve> Oh, they can, and they will.
3219<@ctwelve> reality doesn't matter :-/
3220<%Wannie> but you can't give credit to trump either for the growth when the numbers went up the past few years
3221<Ogre> ...
3222<@ctwelve> I only give him credit for the market attitude
3223<@ctwelve> which matters
3224<@ctwelve> I don't give him time travel powers
3225<Ogre> um.
3226<Tehpillowstar> i wonder if people are putting Trump near the bottom of presidential ranking lists
3227<CreatureCoby> probably
3228<Ogre> growth went up before 2016?
3229<CreatureCoby> probably at the bottom for many
3230<Tehpillowstar> Like how George W Bush is almost to the bottom
3231<Ogre> where?
3232<CreatureCoby> Ogre: there was decent growth in my area from about 14
3233<@ctwelve> Oh, who cares? A generation needs to pass before any kind of objective analysis is even remotely possible
3234<@ctwelve> CreatureCoby: you live in Maryland, close to DC
3235<CreatureCoby> that's true
3236<@ctwelve> consider that carefully
3237<CreatureCoby> ctwelve: this is true
3238<CreatureCoby> this area is growing too fast in general
3239»» CreatureCoby misses when he grew up around farms
3240»» CreatureCoby misses hide and seek in the corn fields
3241<Tehpillowstar> the area i'm in, we're having a very weird problem
3242<Ogre> as far as economics go... all I know is when Obama was elected, I got laid off. When Trump got elected, I started making money again. I'm sure the big picture is more complex than that, but that's all I can state with certainty.
3243<Tehpillowstar> I can't say for the unemployment rates, but we've got like a crapton of blue collar jobs available that no one's picking up
3244<Tehpillowstar> It's hard to walk down a street without looking at a "We're hiring" sign
3245<@ctwelve> Meanwhile, there's a market moment where I liv right now
3246<@ctwelve> a lot of people are moving into new construction houses
3247<@ctwelve> and so suddenly there are a series of quite decent houses on the market that honestly, I'd love to own
3248<@ctwelve> and for less than I'm going to end up paying in rent, too
3249<@ctwelve> so...definitely.
3250<Tehpillowstar> ctwelve: will you get one? :o
3251<%Wannie> ogre: regarding your question about the market growth, here is a chart about the past 10 years http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years
3252<+gonzobot> Title: Dow Jones - 10 Year Daily Chart | MacroTrends
3253<Tehpillowstar> I remember the day the Dow went below 10,000....
3254<@Blackknight64> That's a pretty solid illustration of things.
3255<@Blackknight64> Like I mentioned yesterday, I'm seeing significant market movement in manufacturing.
3256<@Blackknight64> Like- we did about three times what we did last year this time, last month
3257<@Blackknight64> Set a company record in margin and sales 
3258<Ogre> that's an interesting chart.
3259<@Blackknight64> We did about $900k in sales with $125k in margin.
3260<@Blackknight64> And keep in mind, January is traditionally our slowest month.
3261<Ogre> so it took until 2013 for the market to recover from the utter bloodbath that was 2008/2009?
3262<@Blackknight64> Pretty much.
3263<Ogre> that's a pretty aenemic curve from 2013 to 2016
3264<@Blackknight64> Yep.
3265<Ogre> in fact, that curve doesn't look to be much more than inflation.
3266<@Blackknight64> GDP Growth never exceeded 4%/quarter under the previous administration
3267<@Blackknight64> Last quarter, it was 5.6%
3268<Ogre> annual -real- inflation was higher than that.
3269<Ogre> 4%, that is.
3270<@Blackknight64> Yeah
3271<Ogre> so... no actual growth.
3272<@Blackknight64> I'll need to get the stats pulled
3273<@Blackknight64> But we actually had a conversation about that, this morning
3274<Ogre> or at least, growth so weak as to be hard to detect.
3275<@Blackknight64> Sorry, heard my sales manager wrong
3276<@Blackknight64> Here:
3277<@Blackknight64> https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/53E89F0A-0788-11E8-8553-F9E0A832E136
3278<+gonzobot> Title: Atlanta Fed estimate of GDP growth tops 5 doubling consensus - MarketWatch
3279<%Wannie> Ogre: here is a chart which compares the nominal and inflation adjusted down jones index
3280<%Wannie> http://www.aboutinflation.com/Dow-Jones-vs-Inflation
3281<+gonzobot> Title: Dow Jones vs Inflation - About Inflation
3282<%Wannie> it's only until 2013 sadly
3283<Ogre> ah, it leaves out the years I was specifically referring to, that's unfortunate.
3284<%Wannie> in this one there is one which goes up to 2015
3285<%Wannie> http://www.rstreet.org/2017/01/26/what-dow-20000-looks-like-in-inflation-adjusted-terms/
3286<+gonzobot> Title: What Dow 20,000 looks like in inflation-adjusted terms | R Street Institute | R Street
3287<%Wannie> and here you can select the adjusted onea s well up to 2018 http://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow-jones-100-year-historical-chart
3288<+gonzobot> Title: Dow Jones - 100 Year Historical Chart | MacroTrends
3289<Tehpillowstar> There's some world building for my that's sorta political but I don't know where to talk abuot, and to be honest, I don't know what questions to ask
3290<Tehpillowstar> I'd like some help but do feel slightly intimidated from asking...
3291<@Blackknight64> Ask.
3292<VAE_work> Well, I'm off home 
3293<VAE_work> *dashes*
3294<CreatureCoby> VAE_work: nice
3295<CreatureCoby> wait
3296<CreatureCoby> it's like 2 pm in seattle
3297<CreatureCoby> the fuck
3298<CreatureCoby> oh wait
3299<Tehpillowstar> I want my story's world to somewhat reflect on current events, on how power "works" and how politicians looking to maintain their power using corrupt methods have impacted American society...the story takes place starting 2034
3300<CreatureCoby> wrong guy sorry lol
3301<Tehpillowstar> And sorta assumes but never explicitly says Trump was never voted into office.
3302<Tehpillowstar> I wonder how this would effect your average middle class and low income person
3303<Tehpillowstar> How it would effect my characters and the world they live in
3304<Tehpillowstar> I'm sorry I don't have *specific* questions but I'm trying to get a *general sense* before I go into specifics.
3305<%Wannie> So i assume no one want's to argue about the us economic anymore? or how trump can't really take credits for the all times high? 
3306<Ogre> hm?
3307<Ogre> Well, if you wanna get salty about it, I guess I can give you a few roungs.
3308<Ogre> *rounds.
3309<Ogre> tell you what, let's start with your -first- chart. and move up from there, shall we?
3310<%Wannie> go ahead
3311<@Blackknight64> Naw, I was in the middle of a sales call
3312<Ogre> in your -first- chart, we see everyone stampeding for the exits in 2008, couple with the extra losses of rapid liquidation.
3313<@Blackknight64> About to quote out a 60,000lb tracked digger derrick for a potential new customer
3314<Ogre> it is not until -FIVE- years later that the Dow reaches pre-Obama levels.
3315<@Blackknight64> But I'll let Ogre go ahead for now, and tag in in a bit
3316<%Wannie> because after a financial crysis it takes some while for the economy to recover
3317<Ogre> from 2013 (where the dow recovers) to 2015, growth is anemic, and in 2015, it goes -flat-.
3318<Ogre> in fact, it actually goes down.
3319<%Wannie> but then it recovered and has steadily gone up 
3320<Ogre> 2015 and 2016 the dow takes two ugly dips, and then....
3321<Ogre>  Trump is elected, the Dow takes off like a scalded cat, and hasn't stopped yet
3322<Ogre> Obama elected, Dow falls over dead. Trump elected, Dow goes wild.
3323<Ogre> to paraphrase, Obama didn't build 2017.
3324<%Wannie> i would agree with you if the dow would be on the same level after obama as it was to the start of his presidency 
3325<Ogre> It tanked the second it was clear Obama was going to win.
3326<Ogre> and stayed in the crapper till he left.
3327<Ogre> sure, it crawled back up, over five years.
3328<%Wannie> uh at which chart are you looking currently?
3329<Ogre> oh, we're still on the first page.
3330<%Wannie> this one? http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years
3331<+gonzobot> Title: Dow Jones - 10 Year Daily Chart | MacroTrends
3332<Ogre> yup
3333<Ogre> 2009-2013 was everyone putting their money back in play, after they figured out how not to get skinned.
3334---» kaiden333 (uid98205@user/kaiden333) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3335<@Blackknight64> 2013-2016 is pretty flat
3336<Ogre> 2015 to 2016 is -literally- flat, with two big holes.
3337<@Blackknight64> But look at the tail end of 2016
3338<@Blackknight64> Up until the end of the chart
3339<@Blackknight64> What's the significant event that transpires, there, Wannie?
3340<%Wannie> it goes up yes, but you can't say it was becaue of trump because as far as i remember the election was close
3341<%Wannie> so no one knew who would get elected
3342<Ogre> um.
3343<@Blackknight64> Right, but we're talking the last little bit, say, two months.
3344<katiedid> November and December?
3345<%Wannie> again i agree it went up, but you can't say nothing happend during obamas term, because if you compare it overall it went up
3346<katiedid> Didn't something important happen in November?
3347<@Blackknight64> Where the outcome had been established.
3348<Ogre> the stock market doesn't spike until -after- november 10th.
3349<@Blackknight64> Gimme a sec, Wannie
3350<Tehpillowstar> yes, can confirm, stock market spikes after election day
3351<Ogre> and stays that way.
3352<%Wannie> all true, and yet the dow was growing before that 
3353<Ogre> "anemic growth, barely pacing inflation" I think were the words I used.
3354<%Wannie> and you can't blaim it for changing during the election, but have to look at the overall picture of a few years at least
3355<Ogre> but hey, by all means, split those hairs.
3356<%Wannie> has it grown during the past year under trump? yes it has, has it grown under obama? yes it did as well
3357<Ogre> Look, you're a nice guy, but you're really arguing a technicality.
3358<Ogre> if there's 4%GDP growth, and 5-6% real inflation, you lost GDP, or at best, stayed even.
3359<Ogre> and I'm using -your- numbers.
3360<Ogre> so...
3361<Ogre> yeah, Obama's administraion was a really bad time.
3362<Ogre> economically.
3363<%Wannie> yes it was, but what you do is compare 8 years of obama vs one year of trump
3364<Ogre> you -really- want to compare obama's first year to trumps first year?
3365<Ogre> I mean, we can do that, but... it's not going to do anything good for your argument.
3366<%Wannie> no, because the prequesite was different
3367<%Wannie> obama was elected admist a financial crisis, trump not 
3368<Ogre> oh?
3369<katiedid> wat
3370<%Wannie> and a financial crisis doesn't solve itself magically in under a year
3371<Ogre> that's not what the numbers would suggest.
3372<Ogre> but what crisis would this be?
3373<%Wannie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008
3374<+gonzobot> Title: Financial crisis of 2007–2008 - Wikipedia
3375<Ogre> well, I suppose if you want to take that angle, the entire mess would be Carter's fault.
3376<Ogre> and Clinton made it worse.
3377<Ogre> you can't stick a gun in a bank's ear and tell them to make shitty loans to people with no money, and then expect everything to be ok.
3378<%Wannie> i don't want to, i only point out that obama was elected in 2008 where the global economy was shrinking due the financial crisis, now eight years later our economy is growing again so trump doesn't has the same prequisites
3379<%Wannie> and i'm not talking of clinton or carter
3380<%Wannie> i only compare the prequistes of obama and trump
3381<Ogre> I see.
3382<Ogre> ok, so you're claiming that Obama's administration is responsible for Trump's current apparent success?
3383<%Wannie> partly yes 
3384<Ogre> Assuming that's so, then what policies were implemented by Obama's administration that caused this success?
3385<%Wannie> again, you can't compare 8 years against one 
3386<%Wannie> so again, until trump hasn't finished his terms, we can't compare the two of them because the prequsites aren't the same 
3387<@ctwelve> I think y'all are talking right past each other
3388<@ctwelve> Wannie is looking for a statistically valid comparison
3389<@ctwelve> Ogre is talking about trends and market response
3390<@ctwelve> those are not the same thing
3391<%Wannie> true, but at the beginning of trumps presidency, the overall trend went up despite some hickups
3392<@ctwelve> Well
3393<@ctwelve> I've gone ahead and called a realtor
3394»» @ctwelve feels doomed
3395»» Voychek fills ctwelve with ikea coupons and meatballs
3396<Ogre> dude.
3397<Ogre> I can't have carbs.
3398<@RotoSequence> ctwelve proffered a hypothesis the other night that a lot of it was pent up emotional sentiment about what Trump was going to do that spurred the market growth in the first year of his presidency than anything in particular that he did
3399<@ctwelve> There's also the wager element of the market
3400<@Blackknight64> I can speak to that
3401<@RotoSequence> IE, market growth because it's not Obama or Obama the Sequel
3402<Ogre> yah, the stock markets run on Feelz.
3403<@ctwelve> if you place bets assuming $Hillary was going to win
3404<@Blackknight64> Apologies- I've been busy here
3405<@ctwelve> and then suddenly she /does not/
3406<@ctwelve> that changes market calculous 
3407<@Blackknight64> Wannie: question for you, if I may
3408<%Wannie> go ahead
3409<@Blackknight64> What do you do for a living?
3410<@ctwelve> Guards a gold vault, *obviously*
3411<%Wannie> working as a IT developer while going to school to become a business information scientist
3412<%Wannie> psst, that is just a side hobby 
3413<@ctwelve> $FAKENEWS
3414<@Blackknight64> Haha, fair enough.
3415<@Blackknight64> So, what I do is sell freight
3416<@Blackknight64> Which touches on all tangible goods in the market
3417<@Blackknight64> I deal with manufacturers and equipment owners daily
3418<@Blackknight64> Do you know what has been a pretty consistent theme across a good many of my calls?
3419<%Wannie> that they are buying and selling a lot?
3420<@Blackknight64> Yep.  
3421<Tehpillowstar> ctwelve: HFY housewarming party wen?
3422<@Blackknight64> I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Thank God we got Trump."
3423<@ctwelve> it's been a fairly major aspect of our business too
3424<@ctwelve> we're running into supply chain problems actually
3425<@Blackknight64> One of my current customers was about to go under, until the market shifted
3426<@ctwelve> because in my industry, switches aren
3427<@ctwelve> mass produced continuously
3428<@Blackknight64> I don't doubt it
3429<@ctwelve> they're ordered in campaigns
3430<@ctwelve> and they're very suddenly out of basically everything
3431<@ctwelve> so now when we do a major order, we have a manufacturing lead time to worry about
3432<@Blackknight64> I touched on this yesterday, but rates have tripled across some segments of the trucking market in the last year
3433<@ctwelve> also, aside: FUCK DELL
3434<Tehpillowstar> Blackknight64, in my super liberal city, during November of 2016, there was a whiteboard where students could post little messages about what they were thankful for
3435<@Blackknight64> Because demand has significantly outstripped capacity
3436<Tehpillowstar> at least, one note said that they were thankful that Trump got elected
3437<@Blackknight64>  Yep
3438<Tehpillowstar> mind, my college is more moderate than University of Wisconsin
3439<Tehpillowstar> but still
3440<@ctwelve> to be fair Tehpillowstar that's an act of rebellion
3441<Ogre> Dell's having some major supply chain issues of their own.
3442<@ctwelve> yoof always do the rebellious thing
3443<Ogre> something about trying to catch up with all the delayed upgrades people are doing now.
3444<Tehpillowstar> ctwelve: there was a group of people going around one time to see if anyone wanted to join a *pro-life club*
3445<Tehpillowstar> in my college
3446<Ogre> everyone deferred their last actuarial cycle on machines, sometimes -two- cycles. now everyone's buying new, and Dell's struggling to keep up.
3447<Ogre> I have friends who work for dell, and they say it's insane.
3448<@ctwelve> Well
3449<@Blackknight64> Plus getting material, and then getting trucks to move that material is harder, too.
3450<@ctwelve> part of that is Dell as an OEM is legitimately horrible to deal with
3451<@ctwelve> We hate tehm so much Ogre we prefer Lenovo or HPE
3452<Ogre> ...wow
3453<Ogre> that's saying alot, because lenovo's build quality makes baby jesus cry
3454<@ctwelve> because just /getting a quote/ from them more or less requires sacrificing 7 babies to Moloch 
3455<@ctwelve> Lenovo? They can get a 10,000 PC quote turned around in a few hours.
3456<Ogre> weird. their small business side is great.
3457<Ogre> and I love their build quality.
3458<Ogre> and build quality wise, I don't think anyone builds a better laptop.
3459<Ogre> lenovo's laptops are fucking garbage. and HP... ew.
3460<Ogre> ...but that's the hardware, not the business experience.
3461<Ogre> so.. I guess I'm talking about the wrong thing.
3462<@Blackknight64> Anyway
3463<@Blackknight64> The thing that's hard to quantify, Wannie, is consumer confidence
3464<@Blackknight64> And it's a completely different landscape right now than it was in October of 16
3465<%Wannie> true that
3466<@Blackknight64> Folks are optimistic, dude
3467<@Blackknight64> It's a really cool thing to see, versus when I started doing this
3468<VAE> bk64 there's also the fact
3469<%Wannie> that i believe, but until we have more data on the economy and how it develops the next few years, we can't compare anything 
3470<VAE> it's a relatively sudden and sustained change
3471<VAE> like...
3472<VAE> someone turns the tap and suddenly there's a pool on the ground. You can claim that it was slowly piddling from the sky for the last five hours and that some water has accumulated, and it might even account for some wetness
3473<VAE> but like, there's strong as fuck clues it had something to do with the water tap
3474<@Blackknight64> Well, sure, Wannie.  But here's what's quantifiable already.
3475<@Blackknight64> If we're looking at the DJIA
3476<@Blackknight64> In approximately a year, it's gone up around 8,000 points.
3477<@Blackknight64> That isn't peanuts.
3478<@Blackknight64> And it's linkable to specific events.
3479<%Wannie> but isn't it is usually accepted that the first 6-12 months of a president is the last president's fault? 
3480<@Blackknight64> Sec
3481<VAE> keyword is "usually"
3482<@Blackknight64> Not especially, no
3483<VAE> I mean, not many people have stepped into office quite as vigorously
3484<@Blackknight64> https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/818B284E-C465-11E7-BFE9-BAAC967E0E54
3485<+gonzobot> Title: Dows 1year gain since Trumps win is its biggest postElection Day rise since 1945 - MarketWatch
3486<%Wannie> i never questioned that it was the biggest, i just question how much of that can really be credited to trump
3487<@Blackknight64> Here, give that a look
3488<Ogre> depends on who you ask. If you ask obama, the economy was bush's fault for -8 years-. 
3489<VAE> Ogre - the funniest thing about it to me is
3490<VAE> if anyone can complain it's Bush
3491<@Blackknight64> That's november 18th, mind
3492<VAE> since it was Clinton who set the ground for the crisis
3493<VAE> with repealing certain laws
3494---» nightinphone (uid250556@user/Nightingale) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3495»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h nightinphone)
3496<@Blackknight64> You know what happened when tax reform passed?
3497<%Wannie> quote from the link you posted Blackknight64 "Meanwhile, the factors that many analysts pin the rally on precede last year’s election, or are not considered correlated with what is going on in Washington, D.C. "
3498<@Blackknight64> Sure, and I disagree with those assertions
3499<@Blackknight64> The analysts in question are missing the forest for the trees
3500<@Blackknight64> And basing it on tech's rise
3501<@Blackknight64> And ignoring the gains in the financial markets
3502<@Blackknight64> Who are reaping benefits of deregulation in general
3503<VAE> I'm reminded of that meme
3504<VAE> you know, I think it was hank hill holding that kid like "WHAT COULD HE POSSIBLY WANT"
3505<VAE> "TELL ME"
3506<VAE> while the kid is saiyng everything
3507<VAE> it's like that here
3508<VAE> like, the scroogiest companies are giving raises
3509<VAE> because of trump's tax plan
3510<VAE> like if this goes on most people might even see 10+ hourly wages without any laws
3511<VAE> and meanwhile analysts are like 
3512<VAE> NO IDEA WHY THE MARKET IS PICKING UP
3513<VAE> TRUMP IS JUST RIDING A COINCIDENTAL WAVE
3514<VAE> like ffs could they tell you any harder?
3515<VAE> Trump went in with a strong sugar and whip combo
3516<VAE> you do business in the US and give jobs to americans, you'll get tax breaks and make a profit
3517<VAE> you try to be a cunt and outsource to shitholes, you will get smacked into where yesterday means tomorrow with tariffs
3518<VAE> and he gave every fucking sign he absolutely means it
3519<VAE> so the moment he won and started walking the walk to any extent
3520<VAE> the company bosses decided, as the slovak idiom goes, that being healthy and rich is better than being sick and poor
3521<VAE> and investment at home took off.
3522<VAE> and with his tax reform trump IS actually walking the walk so the first round's bets basically yielded a ton of cash
3523<VAE> and now everyone else is wanting to get on the train too
3524<VAE> as blackknight64 has experienced
3525«--- Navistar (IHC@user/IHC) has Quit (Connection closed)
3526<@Blackknight64> Yeeep
3527<@Blackknight64> Like I said
3528<Ogre> but yes, clearly, we have no idea where this is coming from.
3529<@Blackknight64> We had a record month last month
3530<@Blackknight64> Like, all time high sales and margins
3531<@Blackknight64> In what is traditionally our slowest month
3532<Ogre> shit, I finally made enough money to replace my ailing, barely alive, patched-to-fuck POS desktop with a new computer.
3533<Ogre> like, for real, new.
3534<@Blackknight64> Transportation is one hell of an indicator on the economy
3535---» Hellbender (Hellbender@user/Hellbender) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3536<Ogre> granted, it was a floor model, but still, new.
3537»» AnotherLurker|tutoring is now known as AnotherLurker
3538<Hellbender> .g How tall is ben shapiro
3539<+gonzobot> (Hellbender) https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4mmydp/ben_shapiro_real_height/ -- Site Rules; I Site-wide Content Policy: Do not violate Reddit’s site-wide content policy. You will be banned.…
3540<Hellbender> ...
3541<%Wannie> So beside the tax reform (which was passed only one or two months ago) and lifting the restrictions on the financial sector (who were put on them after the crisis of 2008) what else has trump exactly done to aid the economy? (And i ask this out of honest curiosity)
3542<@Blackknight64> Massive amounts of deregulation
3543<@Blackknight64> Among other things
3544<@Blackknight64> Plus creating an openly business friendly environment
3545<VAE> well
3546<VAE> yeah, it's the last
3547<VAE> like the deregulation now is a part of a bigger thing
3548<VAE> it's proof he means what he promised
3549<@Blackknight64> ^
3550<VAE> as I said, people were already jumping on the trump train when he got elected
3551<VAE> and now, when he's actually walking the walk
3552<VAE> it's proof to them it's paid off
3553<Ogre> how about what trump -didn't- do.
3554<@Blackknight64> ^
3555<Ogre> which is important.
3556<VAE> and it's proof to everyone else
3557<VAE> that "hey, this is the way, we gotta pick up"
3558<@Blackknight64> Go ahead, Ogre
3559<VAE> yep
3560<VAE> Ogre -> the floor
3561<Ogre> Trump stopped fucking with companies.
3562<Ogre> the standard Dem party line is to shake down businesses.
3563<Ogre> trump didn't do that.
3564<@Blackknight64> Yep
3565<Ogre> and that's huge.
3566<@Blackknight64> Something to note, Wannie
3567<@Blackknight64> I work for a company that has eleven people, starting monday
3568<@Blackknight64> We're building a new office
3569<@Blackknight64> And expanding to at least triple that.
3570<%Wannie> Will do, and i will inform myself about it tomorrow 
3571<Ogre> ...
3572<Ogre> Wannie, I owe you an apology.
3573<%Wannie> Why?
3574<Ogre> it's complicated. Let's just say I thought poorly of you, and you just gave me reason to reconsider my position.
3575<@Blackknight64> (Coming from Ogre, that's pretty high praise.  GG Wannie.)
3576<%Wannie> Yeah i'm kinda lost for words atm ^^
3577<%Wannie> But alas thank you for that ogre 
3578<Ogre> hey, I fight hard, but I'd like to think I fight fair.
3579<@Blackknight64> Indeed.  And Wannie?  Thanks for being willing to consider the other side
3580<@Blackknight64> I recognize it doesn't necessarily gel with conventional wisdom, but business seldom does
3581<%Wannie> No problem
3582<Ogre> and when someone honestly says they're willing to consider they might be wrong, that suggests they're self aware enough to learn, and they're -not- a meme-automaton.
3583<%Wannie> That i can assure you i'm not
3584<%Wannie> I always try to inform myself but nowadays it's kinda hard to get a neutral picture
3585<@Blackknight64> Ain't that the truth
3586<%Wannie> And with that i bid you all good night (darn time zones)
3587<Tehpillowstar> o7
3588<@Blackknight64> Haha, g'night buddy
3589«--- Wannie (uid134598@user/Wannie) has Quit (Quit: bed time )
3590<@Blackknight64> VAE: on a side note, are you sure you're really a commie?  :P
3591<Ogre> man
3592<Ogre> it's been a rough couple of days.
3593<VAE> hahah
3594»» @Blackknight64 brohugs Ogre
3595<Ogre> my sugar's been over 275 for like two days
3596»» Tehpillowstar hugs the BK and Ogre brohugpile
3597<Ogre> I've had 5 days worth of insulin in the last two.
3598---» CTC (uid119401@user/CTC) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3599<Ogre> and my legs have been cramping so bad it feels like they've been broken.
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3601<VAE> Blackknight64 I guess I'm a pragmatist first of all lol. And US side, alt-right probably /is/ the best fit, more or less. That said, I'm distinctly pro-worker and pro-union... but then again, the whole thing about black and white cats comes to mind. Like, if Trump and people like him bring jobs, and swing the job market to favour workers some and conditions turn decent? Well, why would I be against that on grounds of principle - I mean, you 
3602<VAE> can't exactly spread that on your slice of bread.
3603<@Blackknight64> Fair enough.
3604<VAE> On the other hand I can't stand thieves like insurance companies, bankers (especially Soros's sort) and well, the sort of fuckery Wal-Mart and Amazon is renowned for
3605<VAE> I read a fun article about the first - apparently, they award you demerit points for medical leave even when you have a doctor's note. Or at least did at the time of writing
3606»» AnotherLurker reads up
3607<VAE> and bluntly, with that kind of cuntbaggery widespread, you can't really be surprised if people get pissy and clamour for change
3608<AnotherLurker> See, I dont see how you can call yourself pro-union and alt-right
3609<VAE> the second is usually what others call me lol
3610<@Blackknight64> Unions look different where he's at
3611<VAE> and yeah
3612<AnotherLurker> because if you *do* consider it an offshoot of fascism, and with the little bits that come with it, it doesn't work.
3613<AnotherLurker> Blackknight64, well no this is even if with that consideration
3614<VAE> AnotherLurker that's the thing
3615<AnotherLurker> don't forget fascism had a huge popularity in -europe-
3616<VAE> it seems to group up a huge disparate swath of people
3617<VAE> mostly swinging around political centre but with outliers
3618<@Blackknight64> Refresh my memory, VAE- where are you from?
3619<AnotherLurker> Like, especially with fascism you're basically rooting for a central power and powerful leader who tries to consolidate power to the state (with the understanding its going to enable the stuff you want). 
3620<VAE> Slovakia
3621<AnotherLurker> Unions often present an obstacle to this, or potential future threat. So idk man
3622---» Testostergoat (uid232231@Snoonet-tg1161.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3623<@Blackknight64> Got it
3624<Tehpillowstar> goat!
3625<VAE> AnotherLurker ,not necessarily lol. You can have something like the ROH during socialist times- it was the big united union which organized nice things for workers and so on but in a political sense it was kinda impotent
3626<Testostergoat> Tehpillowstar: !
3627<AnotherLurker> VAE, well I suppose a keyword here is during 'socialist' times.
3628<AnotherLurker> when I say fascist, I mean fascist. Mussolini, Hitler, etc.
3629<VAE> I know
3630<VAE> I'm just saying that unions can well be coopted into a nominal structure lol
3631<AnotherLurker> They can be, but it's easier from a tyrrants perspective to remove them.
3632<VAE> like, if someone sees them as a threat
3633<AnotherLurker> but I will admit
3634<AnotherLurker> the stance against unions by fascists was circumstancial
3635<AnotherLurker> because at the time they were HEAVILY socialist/communist, doubly so for mr. benito
3636<VAE> yeah
3637<AnotherLurker> But I really find it hard to think that they wouldn't resume that position if put into the same circumstance
3638<Testostergoat> AnotherLurker: well, much of their leadership already /are/ heavily socialist
3639<AnotherLurker> nor do I think a fascist leader would disregard the potential threat a union hold
3640<Testostergoat> even if membership or lower level admin aren't necessarily
3641<AnotherLurker> Because they're a political mass that's concentrating power, and it's decidely NOT under your control
3642<AnotherLurker> thats very dangerous to Johnny Junta
3643<@Blackknight64> Ooo.
3644<@Blackknight64> Just got an email from one of my customers
3645<@Blackknight64> They just secured an order for $120k worth of HDD drill rod
3646<@Blackknight64> That's a fugging massive irder
3647<Testostergoat> ...
3648<Testostergoat> Blackknight64: jesus christ
3649<Testostergoat> that's an awful lot of firing pins
3650<@Blackknight64> Lol, yeeeah.
3651<VAE> oh wow
3652<@Blackknight64> About 80,000lbs of material
3653<@RotoSequence> https://i.imgur.com/TVQ0DmW.jpg
3654<@Blackknight64> Company they sold it to just started a massive project
3655<VAE> LMAo
3656<@Blackknight64> 141 sticks of 20' rod
3657<@Blackknight64> Lol RotoSequence 
3658---» Kralizec (uid54746@user/Kralizec) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3659<@ctwelve> > 80,000 lbs of firing pins
3660<@ctwelve> Did...I read that?
3661<@RotoSequence> Horizontal Directional Drill Starting Rod
3662<@RotoSequence> I don't think that's firing pins
3663<@RotoSequence> But what do I know
3664<@RotoSequence> Sounds like it has more to do with energy exploration and whatnot
3665<Ogre> um
3666<Ogre> that's not gun parts.
3667<@Blackknight64> If you break that material down.
3668<@Blackknight64> I suspect that's what Testostergoat meant
3669<Ogre> it's oil gear.
3670<Ogre> if I recall correctly
3671<@Blackknight64> Nah
3672<@Blackknight64> More utility work
3673<Testostergoat> it's drill rod
3674<Ogre> it's for drilling holes.
3675<Ogre> in the ground.
3676<Testostergoat> cut it up, toss it in lathes, you have bolt carriers (if big enough) or firing pins (if skinny)
3677<Ogre> dude, it's hollow.
3678<@Blackknight64> Yeah, horizontally, so you don't have to do trenching.
3679<Ogre> and the metal's wrong.
3680«--- HaplessOperator (uid190790@Phenotypic.Diversity.Reduction.Specialist) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3681<Testostergoat> I saw drill rod and assumed round rod
3682<Testostergoat> not tube
3683<Testostergoat> but hey, anything is gun parts if you try hard enough!
3684<Ogre> it's probably for telco/cable stuff.
3685<Ogre> you'd have to heat treat the shit out of it.
3686<Ogre> the metal properties are wrong.
3687<Ogre> it's too..
3688<Ogre> hm
3689<Ogre> well, maybe.
3690<@Blackknight64> It's tube
3691<Ogre> I think it's a little too squishy.
3692<@Blackknight64> Sec
3693<Ogre> for firing pins, that is.
3694<@Blackknight64> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_boring
3695<+gonzobot> Title: Directional boring - Wikipedia
3696<@Blackknight64> But yeah, Telco, utility wire, and pipe
3697<@Blackknight64> http://premierdrillproducts.com
3698<+gonzobot> Title: Home - Premier Drill Products
3699<@Blackknight64> That's my customer.
3700---» Tilted (Tilted@Snoonet-814.1jj.nju3qp.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3701---» pinsndneedles (pinsndneedl@user/pinsndneedles) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3702<Tehpillowstar> uh...never got an answer about the worldbuilding help i needed
3703<Ogre> well, someone threw a shiney nickle through the room.
3704<VAE> hah yeah
3705<VAE> anyhow, I gave her some pointers in my channel
3706<VAE> but I wouldn't mind you verifying my reasoning and on top of that well, there's stuff I can't answer well
3707<@Blackknight64> Well, shit
3708<@Blackknight64> We got sidetracked
3709<@Blackknight64> What was the question, even?
3710<Tehpillowstar> <Tehpillowstar> I want my story's world to somewhat reflect on current events, on how power "works" and how politicians looking to maintain their power using corrupt methods have impacted American society...the story takes place starting 2034
3711<Tehpillowstar> <CreatureCoby> wrong guy sorry lol
3712<Tehpillowstar> <Tehpillowstar> And sorta assumes but never explicitly says Trump was never voted into office.
3713<Tehpillowstar> <Tehpillowstar> I wonder how this would effect your average middle class and low income person
3714<Tehpillowstar> <Tehpillowstar> How it would effect my characters and the world they live in
3715<Tehpillowstar> <Tehpillowstar> I'm sorry I don't have *specific* questions but I'm trying to get a *general sense* before I go into specifics.
3716<@Blackknight64> Well
3717<@Blackknight64> It's kinda hard to say.
3718<@Blackknight64> Shit was coming to a weird head
3719<Tehpillowstar> VAE suggested with deep learning AI that you'll end up seeing people lose their jobs as they get replaced by automation (don't know to what degree that would be in 2034)
3720<Tehpillowstar> And that we'd see a pretty big gutting of the middle class
3721<Tehpillowstar> a large low income population dependent on welfare with labrythine rules
3722<theAncientOne> The biggest difference, in my mind (and I'm intending no slight to the Left, it's simply my observation) is that electing anyone but Trump would have resulted in a solidification of the expansions to the regulatory state of the Obama years.
3723<damnusername> didn't kurzgesagt do a good video on how automation will impact jobs?
3724<damnusername> let me see if I can find it
3725<Tilted> Side note: Middle class is people with a household income level of... $240,000 a year? Lots of working class people get called that, though
3726<damnusername> here we go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSKi8HfcxEk
3727<+gonzobot> (damnusername) The Rise of the Machines – Why Automation is Different this Time - length 11m 41s - 199,672 likes, 2,781 dislikes (98.6%) - 3,840,911 views - Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell on 2017.06.08
3728<AnotherLurker> ctwelve,  https://i.redd.it/rx038jm9umd01.png
3729<Tilted> Generally, if you can't say "fuck it, I'm done working" and live off investments and savings, you're probably not middle class
3730<Tehpillowstar> I can't really say with knowledge what the economics would look like at that area
3731<Tehpillowstar> but, on a social level, maybe something like, "And a vulgar, decadent society and culture with no standards, no understanding of ethics and pragmatism, just an altar to social justice and 'equality' and identity politics"
3732<Tehpillowstar> (quoting myself from VAE's channel)
3733<Tilted> Tehpillowstar: What is the main export of the elven state of Rivendell?
3734<Tehpillowstar> I dunno
3735<@RotoSequence> Pretentiousness
3736<Tilted> Does not knowing make any difference to the Lord of the Rings?
3737<Tehpillowstar> no
3738<Tilted> Perhaps you should worry less about background details, and more about what your characters are doing
3739<Tehpillowstar> I want to know what the average daily life would be for my characters and the people around them
3740<Testostergoat> Tilted: Rivendell has massive trade imbalances due to importing nearly all their non-wood products from the Dwarves
3741<Tehpillowstar> and their attitudes towards everything
3742<Tilted> Ultimately? It's gonna be pretty similar across the board.
3743<Testostergoat> their economy is sort of teetering on the brink of collapse, existing in the sort of "too big to fail" kick the can where the dwarves won't call in the debt
3744<@ctwelve> AnotherLurker: so...VPNs, then.
3745<@ctwelve> And torrents
3746<@ctwelve> because, y'know.
3747<Testostergoat> because to do so would be to guarantee massive, terrible waves of elven refugees
3748<VAE> Tilted it hugely depends on the fiction you read
3749»» Tilted shoves Testostergoat into a barrel and floats him down a river
3750»» Testostergoat can swim, seeing as he's a goat
3751<VAE> and also, lord of the rings is kind of a poor example
3752<Tilted> Tehpillowstar: Just make them live like ex-soviets
3753<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, >inb4 vpns get banned
3754<AnotherLurker>  /s
3755<Tilted> I'm pretty sure VPNs are getting banned currently
3756<Tehpillowstar> how do ex-soviets live
3757<Tilted> Tehpillowstar: However you want. Just make it consistent
3758<Tehpillowstar> ok
3759<Tilted> Suspension of disbelief works pretty well, so long as you don't break your own rules.
3760<VAE> damnusername - from the colleagues that keep up with stuff enough to have some knowledge of deep learning AI and related stuff
3761<VAE> the universal reaction is like "I'm pretty glad I probably won't have to live in this" XD
3762<VAE> (given they're over 60)
3763<damnusername> oh boy
3764<Testostergoat> it's perhaps worth keeping in mind though that eventually automation can't outcompete falling labor costs
3765<VAE> well, that's a horrid state to be stuck in
3766<Testostergoat> the less you "need" people, the lower the cost of labor ends up, and the cheaper your laborers are
3767<VAE> because uh
3768<Testostergoat> and, resultingly, the cheaper your cost of living ends up
3769<VAE> your labourers need food, shelter, clothes etc etc
3770<Testostergoat> the market adjusts, aggressively, downwards
3771<Testostergoat> you'll end up with a sharp deflationary trend for a period
3772<VAE> and if you can't buy that with your market-adjusted wages well
3773<VAE> there's not much point to the job
3774<Tilted> It's also worth keeping in mind that prices of nearly everything have gone up over the years while wages have remained stagnant.
3775<Testostergoat> if you can't buy it, they can't /sell/ it
3776<VAE> at that rate you might well end up with neo-luddism
3777<Testostergoat> Tilted: a lot of that's taxation issues
3778<VAE> people clamoring for machine bans and stuff
3779<Testostergoat> taxes have gone WAY up
3780<Testostergoat> until very recently
3781<Testostergoat> wages remain stagnant because the cost of paying someone kept going up, while they in turn took home less and less
3782<a_man_in_black> yes
3783<a_man_in_black> i've seen the books at several companies i've worked at
3784<Tilted> If we're lucky, world population will start taking a dive. Or at least it'll start going down in industrialized countries.
3785<VAE> but then
3786<VAE> the taxes will be needed to keep your unemployed population at peace
3787<a_man_in_black> and the actual cost per hour for labor was almost always less than half of what it costs in regulation, taxes, and fees tot he company
3788<a_man_in_black> if you're getting paid ten bucks an hour
3789<VAE> Tilted, that's the worrying bit actually
3790<a_man_in_black> the company typically pays out 30 bucks an hour in total for you
3791<VAE> creates incentive
3792<VAE> for people like Soros
3793<a_man_in_black> get rid of that extra burden
3794<VAE> to do population cleanup
3795<a_man_in_black> and the wages will go up
3796<VAE> but then I am just a little paranoid lol
3797<VAE> anyhow, night all
3798<Tilted> If it's targeted, then it becomes an issue. But usually that kind of thing they're importing the people they want
3799<Tilted> If you block the imports, then it's fine if your GDP remains the same
3800<Testostergoat> Tilted: world population in most developed nations will go down in the next generation or so
3801<Testostergoat> excepting in America and a handful of other states
3802<Testostergoat> this makes way for interesting and hard-to-predict effects on wages
3803<Testostergoat> especially for labor sector, because it's the ultra-high-seniority people who are dying off
3804<Tilted> Testostergoat: Well, even in America we're about to have a dive from the end of the baby boomer generation
3805<Tilted> I wasn't aware of how high taxes were for hiring people, but if you cut both that and the number of people competing, while keeping the same output
3806<Tilted> That's a lot of wages raised
3807<Testostergoat> Tilted: yup, though we did luck out in that the boomers had enough kids here
3808<Testostergoat> so we're not in for total-fucked-ness like western europe or china
3809<Testostergoat> (china is /screwed/)
3810<Tilted> Yeah, that's why whenever people say China is gonna surpass the US I don't believe them
3811<Tilted> They don't have any way of actually supporting all that population, and are gonna have a fun time with half the population being retired.
3812<Testostergoat> especially since they don't have enough /girls/
3813<Testostergoat> unlike, say, Western Europe that's only in a bind for a generation or two
3814<Testostergoat> China is in a bottleneck for /multiple/ generations
3815<a_man_in_black> those kinds of things tend to sorth themselves out tho
3816<a_man_in_black> it's not /pleasant/
3817<a_man_in_black> but it does eventually balance
3818<a_man_in_black> the inevitable result is they'll have mass abandonment of their elderly and older sick
3819<Testostergoat> china is also a good showcase of life in a high automation economy
3820<Testostergoat> in that mechanical turks rapidly become very viable
3821<a_man_in_black> that's assuming china doesn't adopt some other draconean policy like elderly euthanasia or some shit
3822<Testostergoat> pay you a little to do a lot of a little work
3823<Testostergoat> because it's cheaper than a machine
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3829»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h Nightingale)
3830<@RotoSequence> https://streamable.com/hmcgj
3831<+gonzobot> Title: Streamable - free video publishing
3832<@RotoSequence> Fuckery is afoot
3833<a_man_in_black> what flavor of fuckery?
3834<@RotoSequence> Donald Trump was speaking and all of the feeds cut out after you hear someone say "shut it down shut it down."
3835<@RotoSequence> On all networks.
3836<a_man_in_black> what was he speaking for? some sort of press release or announcement?
3837<@RotoSequence> It was some sort of speech about how the important thing is to put your country first
3838«--- CTC (uid119401@user/CTC) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3839»» @Blackknight64 peers in
3840<Tox> are we sure this isn't just cleverly spliced footage
3841<Ogre>  what?
3842<AnotherLurker> ...
3843<AnotherLurker> RotoSequence, this sonds like memery
3844<Ogre> ...
3845»» Testostergoat is now known as LatvianGoat
3846<@RotoSequence> All of the networks cut out at the same time
3847<Ogre> that's pretty fucking odd.
3848<@RotoSequence> CNN, Fox, ABC
3849<@RotoSequence> It seems they were all using the same studio for their broadcast and the producer shut it down
3850<Tox> I can't find anything about this
3851<a_man_in_black> if the venue did it for no reason except not liking trump isn't that a career ender? 
3852<@Blackknight64> Weird.  I'm not seeing this being reported anywhere.
3853<LatvianGoat> a_man_in_black: no.
3854<LatvianGoat> it's a career booster
3855<Ogre> to be fair the tone of the people shutting it down were very bored.
3856<Tox> No, it'd be a career ender if it came out
3857<Tox> but
3858<Tox> I'm not seeing this being touched on anywhere. Soemone would have sent up a signal
3859<Ogre> also, the jellyroll -waaaaaaay- out, plus the 'fade to black'?
3860<Ogre> I call bullshit.
3861<LatvianGoat> this is a pretty clever hoax
3862<LatvianGoat> I hope it doesn't get figured out by too many people
3863<Tox> ...why
3864<Tox> you should be hoping it does
3865<@RotoSequence> I'm having a hard time finding it without the ABC stamp
3866<@RotoSequence> Which is to say I can't
3867<Ogre> what alarms me more than this.
3868<LatvianGoat> Tox: because "liberal producers/studio staff blacking out trump" is a good meme to discredit liberal sources.
3869<LatvianGoat> even if it's not a /true/ meme
3870<Ogre> is that shit's gotten bad enough that we're taking this seriously.
3871<@Blackknight64> ^
3872<LatvianGoat> it'd be a good pussygrab
3873<Tox> LatvianGoat: if it's not true, then it shouldn't be used
3874<Tox> because eventually people will learn the truth and then the entire house of cards that got built on it? will fall away
3875<Ogre> http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/02/01/dem-rep-swalwell-house-intel-memo-seeks-to-torch-every-floor-of-the-fbi-building-to-protect-the-president/
3876<+gonzobot> Title: Dem Rep Swalwell: House GOP Intel Memo 'Seeks to Torch Every Floor of the FBI Building to Protect the President' - Breitbart
3877<@ctwelve> Yes.
3878<Ogre> Tox - they've been doing fine for the last....50 years?
3879<@ctwelve> The Democrats are...something else.
3880<@ctwelve> God.
3881<Tox> wh
3882<Tox> They think this memo damages the Republic to protect Trump...?
3883<Ogre> yup
3884<Tox> I view it like chemotherapy, trying to preserve what's left of the Republic, personally....
3885<LatvianGoat> Tox: remember, the (D) by the name means that they only care about the Republic when it involves them getting their way
3886<LatvianGoat> and that the Republic, to them, is limited to the deep state
3887<theAncientOne> No. They think they /are/ the republic
3888<LatvianGoat> see my second line
3889<theAncientOne> so yes, it's trying to destroy the republic by extension
3890<LatvianGoat> the memo is destroying /their/ republic
3891<LatvianGoat> not ours
3892<katiedid> Ummm
3893<Tox> the Republic
3894<katiedid> Pretty much what Ogre said
3895<katiedid> This is fucking /terrifying/
3896<katiedid> We've gotten to the point the entire media can blackout the POTUS
3897<LatvianGoat> the world, as a (D) knows it, is bounded by the beltway
3898<katiedid> In our own country
3899<Tox> katiedid: assuming this is authentic
3900<Tox> and not bullshit
3901»» Madbrad200 is now known as `-_-`
3902<Tox> I'm not seeing this anywhere
3903<LatvianGoat> if it's bullshit, which it very probably is, that it's /plausible/ is pretty scary
3904<katiedid> Why was it taken down from YouTube so fucking fast?
3905<LatvianGoat> or, if not scary, pretty telling
3906<damnusername> I  think what ogre was worried about was that we're taking this seriously
3907<katiedid> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQGHtnu0-w&feature=youtu.be&t=4m27s
3908<katiedid> That's where the video used to be
3909<katiedid> Completely blacked out of ANY information
3910<damnusername> we didn't just laugh it off as memery immediately, but are actually discussing it and devoting thought power to it
3911<Ogre> yes, and that's -fucking terrifying-
3912<damnusername> and -that- alone is a terrifying thought, no matter if it's true or not
3913<katiedid> Meaning Google is helping the mass media do this
3914<LatvianGoat> it's telling about the world /we/ live in today
3915<@GamingWolfie> What are we devouting thought power too?
3916<theAncientOne> ...something that really needs an application of the 72 hour rule
3917<damnusername> ^
3918<@GamingWolfie> also that video doesnt exist anymore
3919<katiedid> Also
3920<@GamingWolfie> sad times
3921<katiedid> The thread in The_Donald is full of people who say they saw it happen live
3922<katiedid> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7unty0/deep_state_cut_all_feeds_of_trumps_speech_just/
3923<+gonzobot> (katiedid) DEEP STATE CUT ALL FEEDS OF TRUMP'S SPEECH JUST NOW!! ABC NEWS: "SHUT... : The_Donald - 42 comments, 271 points - wharfthrowaway, 1h ago
3924<katiedid> Unless this is a MASSIVE prank by 4chan
3925<Tox> which has happened before
3926---» HaplessOperator (uid190790@Phenotypic.Diversity.Reduction.Specialist) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
3927»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h HaplessOperator)
3928<katiedid> I don't see normal TD users pulling that kind of stunt
3929<damnusername> to me this is /either/ 1) fake news that was stomped on in flagrant ignorance of the Streisand effect, or 2) something actually going on and deeply terrifying
3930<%HaplessOperator> Wait, so wtf is happening? 
3931<damnusername> and yeah, I wouldn't rule out 4chan fuckery
3932<a_man_in_black> question
3933<@GamingWolfie> I asked the same question HaplessOperator 
3934<@GamingWolfie> have not received anwsers
3935<damnusername> given that they permanently broke some tumbler tags and a few other things
3936<a_man_in_black> if there was something the president was going to say that could put them into the state of mind to panic and do this all of a sudden
3937<a_man_in_black> would they have ways of knowing before hand what he was going to say?
3938<damnusername> allegedly trump got faded to black in the middle of his speech
3939<damnusername> over most/all of the large new sources
3940<@RotoSequence> The fact that noody has clips of not-ABC stream from what's allegedly a CSPAN source suggests its fake
3941<Tox> hm
3942<Tox> now
3943<damnusername> https://streamable.com/hmcgj
3944<+gonzobot> Title: Streamable - free video publishing
3945<Tox> here's another thing
3946<Tox>  I want you to listen close
3947<Tox> are we hearing "shut it down" or "shot is down"
3948<damnusername> personally I'm leaning on option 1 as the most likely explanation -right now-
3949<damnusername> and it's 4chan being 4chan
3950<%HaplessOperator> RotoSequence: Maybe. It was a stream on the Tubes, tho
3951<@RotoSequence> Yeah, IDK either
3952<katiedid> Also, another theory
3953<katiedid> Dunno if he's just being a cunt or what
3954<LatvianGoat> question: do we have anyone /here/ who saw it live?
3955<katiedid> "Yes, signs now seem to be indicating that GEOTUS or his staff kicked the press out so they could talk shop without flies on the wall. Supposedly the meeting is over and GEOTUS is still safe."
3956<Ogre> guys
3957»» `-_-` is now known as `^_^`
3958<damnusername> I think the best we can do is be skeptical and wait to see what's going on as the 72 hour rule is in full effect
3959<Ogre> it's not even that this happened.
3960<Ogre> -look at us-
3961<@Blackknight64> Okay.
3962<LatvianGoat> it's that it could
3963<@Blackknight64> Time out.
3964<Ogre> we were willing to accept that this was a Real Thing.
3965<damnusername> yup, and that's fucking terrifing as well ogre
3966<Hellbender> Hmm?
3967<Ogre> sorry, BK.
3968<@Blackknight64> You're good.
3969<damnusername> rgr, holding thought
3970<@RotoSequence> So `^_^` who are you?
3971<@RotoSequence> :p
3972<Tox> RotoSequence: it's madbrad
3973<damnusername> are we still holding?
3974<`^_^`> hi
3975<`^_^`> its me
3976»» theAncientOne holds all the things.
3977<`^_^`> smikey face
3978<@GamingWolfie> Get a real name
3979<@Blackknight64> Yeah.  Sorry.  Collecting my thoughts for a sec.
3980<damnusername> AAAAH BRIGHT YELLOW
3981<@GamingWolfie> or be gone
3982»» `^_^` begones 
3983<Ogre> bye now.
3984»» Ogre waves.
3985<Hellbender> Has anyone seen this live?
3986<@GamingWolfie> I agree with Ogre tho
3987<theAncientOne> it doesn't look like a cut feed to me
3988<damnusername> according to TD, yes. But that could be 4chan memery
3989<theAncientOne> it looks like a technical malfunction
3990<damnusername> because, assuming this is a decent sample of people, this is the level of distrust outside
3991<@RotoSequence> damnusername, not seeing anything on 4chan
3992<damnusername> sorry, cut from earlier
3993<LatvianGoat> also, as an aside, 4chan will claim anything
3994<@RotoSequence> Ah wait, no, there it is.
3995<LatvianGoat> doesn't mean they did it
3996<Hellbender> /r/the_donald isn't saying anything
3997»» Blackknight64 sets modes (##HFYpolitics +b ^_^!*@*)
3998<damnusername> dunno then. Could just be technical fault
3999<damnusername> most likely thought
4000»» Blackknight64 sets modes (##HFYpolitics +b *!Madbrad200@snoonet/staff/Madbrad200)
4001<damnusername> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7unty0/deep_state_cut_all_feeds_of_trumps_speech_just/ and yeah, a bunch of people calling bullshit saying "shot is down
4002»» Blackknight64 has kicked `^_^` from ##HFYpolitics ()
4003<+gonzobot> (damnusername) DEEP STATE CUT ALL FEEDS OF TRUMP'S SPEECH JUST NOW!! ABC NEWS: "SHUT... : The_Donald - 45 comments, 275 points - wharfthrowaway, 1h ago
4004<@Blackknight64> Missed the squiggles.
4005<Tox> Blackknight64: you're gonna ban snoonet staff?
4006<Tox> :P
4007<@Blackknight64> Maybe.
4008<@GamingWolfie> Well apparently he does
4009<theAncientOne> .yt boot to the head
4010<+gonzobot> (theAncientOne) Phoenix Wright - Boot to the Head - length 3m 16s - 81,201 likes, 1,116 dislikes (98.6%) - 5,623,095 views - CMSPyrowolf on 2007.04.28 - http://youtu.be/vFldBVWFgWo
4011<Tox> Bold strategy
4012<Ogre> whoops
4013<@GamingWolfie> I mean he can let himself back in when he wants to
4014<@Blackknight64> ^
4015<@RotoSequence> lol
4016<@Blackknight64> Hey man.  Nobody talks shit to my boy GamingWolfie without going through BK first.
4017»» theAncientOne talks shit to random people
4018<@GamingWolfie> But he was already begoneing himself
4019<katiedid> https://www.c-span.org/video/?440523-1/president-trump-addresses-rnc
4020<+gonzobot> Title: President Trump Addresses RNC, Feb  1 2018 | Video | C-SPAN.org
4021<@Blackknight64> Annnyway
4022<@Blackknight64> Getting back to my timeout point
4023<katiedid> Go to 11:30
4024<katiedid> That's on c-span's /own website/
4025<AnotherLurker> wait madbrad was snoonet staff
4026<AnotherLurker> rip
4027<katiedid> With their own watermark
4028<@RotoSequence> Good find, katiedid 
4029<@Blackknight64> Or okay, let's see what katiedid has
4030<Tox> If the video feed comes from a single source and c-span just applies a watermark before pushing it to their site
4031<Tox> that doesn't exactly prove a lot
4032<@GamingWolfie> no "stream is down" or the like in that one
4033<@RotoSequence> No "shut it down" just a pan back and test bars
4034<LatvianGoat> I'm gonna call that confirmation of the event
4035<@GamingWolfie> They also said they have problems
4036<LatvianGoat> not sure about the comment though
4037<@GamingWolfie> so i dunno
4038<@GamingWolfie> Oh well
4039»» LatvianGoat installs technical difficulties in tox
4040<@GamingWolfie> its not like I am trieng to move to the us or anything
4041<@GamingWolfie> oh wait
4042<Tox> Ah, nevermind
4043»» LatvianGoat is now known as SWOLEGoat
4044<Tox> the audio's much cleaner in c-span's
4045<Hellbender> SWOLEGoat, Tox chat already has technical difficulties
4046<@Blackknight64> At any rate, I'm going to suggest that we all stop trying to read into this
4047<@GamingWolfie> Can't you guys just sort your stuff in like a few days and everything is back to no drama?
4048<Tox> I'm going to say it wasn't malicious etc
4049<@GamingWolfie> I vote for BK's idea
4050<@Blackknight64> If fuckery is indeed afoot, we'll know soon enough
4051<theAncientOne> that looks to me like the camera feed has technical problems - the camera pans back all the way and then fades out completely.
4052<Tox> yeah
4053<Tox> besides
4054<Ogre> um
4055<Tox> when you switch off a zoomed-in camera
4056<Tox> it pulls itself back
4057<%HaplessOperator> Yeah
4058<@Blackknight64> Something to keep in mind folks
4059<%HaplessOperator> That was a deliberate pull
4060<%HaplessOperator> Prior to killing feed
4061<theAncientOne> eh. maybe.
4062<theAncientOne> we'll see 
4063<@GamingWolfie> Well
4064<%HaplessOperator> Well, that's how cameras work, I mean.
4065<Ogre> I think there might be value in talking about our reactions.
4066<@GamingWolfie> Shelf this until we know more
4067<@GamingWolfie> Cause we know nothing as it stands
4068<Tox> *Shelve
4069<@Blackknight64> What GamingWolfie said
4070<@GamingWolfie> and making up wild theories wont help
4071<theAncientOne> lacking further evidence, occam's razor indicates stupidity from somebody rather than nefarious intent.
4072<Tox> yeah
4073<@Blackknight64> And I'd like to cede the floor to Ogre for a sec
4074<@GamingWolfie> ^
4075<@Blackknight64> He was in the middle of a pretty solid point earlier
4076»» theAncientOne gets up off the floor to let Ogre have it.
4077<Ogre> well
4078»» AnotherLurker brushes the spooks out of the room with a broom
4079<Ogre> so, we're all losing our collective shit over this. 
4080«--- pins|mobile (uid116470@Snoonet-12e02v.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4081<Ogre> yeah, we are.
4082»» Blackknight64 sets modes (##HFYpolitics -b *!Madbrad200@snoonet/staff/Madbrad200)
4083»» Blackknight64 sets modes (##HFYpolitics -b ^_^!*@*)
4084<Ogre> but, the relevant question is 'how did we get here'?
4085<Ogre> and perhaps even more important, how do we get back from here?
4086<Ogre> how do we back up from the ledge where we're at, where something like this puts us in believing that this might be a real attack
4087»» theAncientOne raises a hand with a counterpoint
4088<Ogre> go
4089<theAncientOne> So - the world has changed a lot in the last 20 years or so. 20 years ago, the idea of 19 people hijacking airliners soley for the purpose of flying them into large buildings and killing thousands of people was crazy.
4090<theAncientOne> 20 years ago, the idea of nationalizing health insurance was crazy
4091<theAncientOne> 20 years ago...lots of things were not on the radar the way they are today
4092<theAncientOne> In those years, we've had what I'd call "freakout fatigue"
4093<theAncientOne> the problem being that for all too many things, the early signs have been of things /actually happening/
4094<theAncientOne> In answer to how we got here - the answer is pretty straightforward.
4095<AnotherLurker> Minor objection. Nationalized healthcare was a thing 20 years ago. But minor niggle is minor.
4096<theAncientOne> we've had two decades of learning that big events start as seemingly harmless ones
4097<theAncientOne> ok - point.  I mean in /this/ country
4098<theAncientOne> After the last year plus of watching the media literally flip their shit over every fucking thing Trump says
4099<theAncientOne> and the reactions from the Left during the SOTU
4100<theAncientOne> coming to the conclusion that Something Is Happening with an event like this is not only plausible
4101<theAncientOne> it should be expected
4102<theAncientOne> because it isn't crazy to think that somebody might off him.
4103»» theAncientOne hands the floor back
4104<@GamingWolfie> I don't want this to be a moment where in 20 years i remember exactly where I was
4105<@GamingWolfie> and what I was doing
4106<theAncientOne> Nor, I think, do any of us.
4107<@Blackknight64> Be a pretty crappy one to talk about GamingWolfie 
4108<Ogre> yes, but -how did we get here- and how do we step back?
4109<AnotherLurker> indded
4110<theAncientOne> Nobody sane wants such a thing
4111<%HaplessOperator> Wait, so theAncientOne 
4112<@Blackknight64> "What were you doing, Dad?"
4113<@Blackknight64> "Shitposting with your Uncle Wolfie."
4114<AnotherLurker> "I was sitting at home, shitposting with some faggots on an irc, contemplating masturbaiting when [EVENT] happened"
4115<theAncientOne> tmi
4116<AnotherLurker> >"Grandpa whats an 'IRC'?"
4117<%HaplessOperator> You're saying the "Shut it down" could, conceivably, be the beginning of a literal "This revolution will not be televised" 
4118<AnotherLurker> theAncientOne, it was a joke.
4119<theAncientOne> :P
4120<%HaplessOperator> : p
4121<theAncientOne> and again, not an un-plausible one
4122<theAncientOne> so :P
4123<Kralizec> AnotherLurker: pls
4124<@GamingWolfie> Ogre, do you have a plan on how to step back?
4125<a_man_in_black> jeesus that's a dark thought
4126<Kralizec> IRC will be around after the heat death of the universe
4127<Ogre> GamingWolfie - I do not.
4128<AnotherLurker> ogres plans usually involve going innadesert with enough arms and supplies to make Alexandre the great blush
4129<@Blackknight64> Mmm.
4130<AnotherLurker> (<3)
4131<theAncientOne> HaplessOperator no. I don't believe it is
4132<Ogre> but I'm extremely concerned.
4133<Kralizec> Because someone, somewhere, will -still- be using it
4134<%HaplessOperator> To be clear, Ogre 
4135<Ogre> and I'm already innadesert
4136<AnotherLurker> exactly
4137<AnotherLurker> case in point
4138<theAncientOne> However - I would point out that that's far less far-fetched a conclusion, given the scanty evidence available, than it would have been.
4139<%HaplessOperator> Your concern is that we, as a group, can look at this and immediately think "malevolent action" 
4140<theAncientOne> I agree with Ogre here.
4141<theAncientOne> That's a really valid point
4142<Ogre> HaplessOperator - yes.
4143<AnotherLurker> y'know
4144<Ogre> and we're not the only ones.
4145<AnotherLurker> we need an inversal of Hanlon's razor
4146<theAncientOne> How do we walk back from it? I don't know. Maybe let the media finish imploding and hope common sense breaks out.
4147<AnotherLurker> "Do not assume stupidity where REEEEEE may suffice." (?)
4148<Ogre> and, we have reached a point where hollywood shenanigins become -plausable-.
4149»» @GamingWolfie raises hand
4150<@GamingWolfie> I am not thinking malevolent atm
4151<Ogre> go
4152<@GamingWolfie> I think someone fucked up
4153<@GamingWolfie> But not with malicous thingamyig
4154<@GamingWolfie> intent
4155<@GamingWolfie> thats the word  I want
4156<AnotherLurker> tbh wolfie, you're in a much different circumstance to some of the people here
4157<AnotherLurker> ESP politics wise.
4158»» theAncientOne thinks that's the most likely explanation by far
4159<@Blackknight64> I'm generally inclined to agree, Wolfie.  The concern is that we can immediately go to "hostile action"
4160<AnotherLurker> which leads to ^^^
4161<@GamingWolfie> AnotherLurker, guess why I rarely talk in here
4162<theAncientOne> It's much like the missile alert in Hawaii
4163<AnotherLurker> GamingWolfie, well hang on its not that your observations are -invalid-. Don't get me wrong
4164<AnotherLurker> my point is that the stress of current political environment leads to different assumptions and THAT is the issue
4165<theAncientOne> although  that was far more a "we're all gonna die" up-front than a "wtf just happened????"
4166<Ogre> it's not the Event.
4167<%HaplessOperator> I don't think it's malevolent, either. I'm just saying it's weird, with some inauspicious timing. 
4168<AnotherLurker> The concern is that we DID just jump to "Is it [happening]"
4169<@Blackknight64> Sure.  
4170<Ogre> it's the level of polarization in the world, at least, in the US.
4171<@GamingWolfie> Because drama is enjoyable AnotherLurker 
4172<@GamingWolfie> thats how I see it
4173<@GamingWolfie> and theroising is aswell
4174<AnotherLurker> Eh, a little of that, but it's also the result of being on edge.
4175<@GamingWolfie> True
4176<AnotherLurker> like
4177<AnotherLurker> okay.
4178<AnotherLurker> run with me here for a second.
4179<@Blackknight64> Okay.  Pause for a sec.
4180<AnotherLurker> :l
4181<@Blackknight64> I'll give you a chance to explain, bear with me.
4182<AnotherLurker> okay
4183<@Blackknight64> But we're getting off the topic that we intended to discuss- which is, how do we walk back from this point?  Me, personally, I suggest that when something pops off a little weird, fire up drudge or another news aggregator, and take a quick crosscheck.
4184<@Blackknight64> That's the first thing I did, when the link was initially presented.
4185<AnotherLurker> I usually just apply 24 hour protocol and do the above^. See if any other sources are talking about it, if not wait some. 
4186<@Blackknight64> At any rate, go ahead, AnotherLurker
4187<AnotherLurker> Right. Well this is continuing into the slightly off topic bit, but I already wrote all this out
4188<AnotherLurker> sooooo
4189<AnotherLurker> K. So GamingWolfie, to give an example.If a quebec national broadcast cut out in the middle of the minister speaking /today/, I would assume it was something related to just tech difficulties and/or someone dun goofed.
4190<AnotherLurker> But go to I dunno, say c.2012-2013ish. If the same thing happened? I would be absolutely ready to accept something like the FLQ sparked up and and/or we just witnessed *SOMETHING* hostile on TV
4191<AnotherLurker> because the political atmosphere was tense enough to give credibility to it.
4192<AnotherLurker> Even if nothing outright was ever done or said, the pressure just sort of builds underneath the surface and it -gets to you-. 
4193---» IHC (IHC@user/IHC) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
4194<AnotherLurker> Because if people are angry enough, and nothing has happened yet, all it takes is a spark, and that sort of spark can really come at any time. It gets way worse when the issue at hand is put on a spotlight.
4195<AnotherLurker> And that feeling c.2012/2013 would be justified, because not even half a year later?
4196<AnotherLurker> Some dude tried to straight up murder a premier candidate on live TV w/ a rifle and grenades.
4197<AnotherLurker> It's hard to shake off the feeling that leads to people jumping to conclusions like the above, because in the right atmosphere, it has tendency to be right because people are observant. 
4198<AnotherLurker> Or at least, people will keep jumping to several scenarios until one of them invariably happens. 
4199<@GamingWolfie> Yeah, we do that.
4200<@GamingWolfie> It's still pointless to make up theories when we lack information
4201<AnotherLurker> Maybe, but that's not really the issue at play here.
4202<@GamingWolfie> Also, I don't really have that feeling cause I can't recall such dramatic stuff happening here in recent memory
4203<AnotherLurker> Its the fact that right now we're in such a shitty situation that we're going to these conclusions in the first place.
4204<AnotherLurker> Optimally, we shouldnt be, because it means they aren't likely.
4205<@GamingWolfie> So it's even more important to remain impartial and keep a clear head
4206<AnotherLurker> So yeah, while the drama aspect is lucrative, it's not the only reason this happens. Sometimes people just indirectly accept that something really fucked could happen right now, and it wouldnt be that far-fetched. That manifests as the stuff you see above.
4207<@GamingWolfie> Question remains.
4208<@GamingWolfie> How do we step back?
4209<AnotherLurker> I really have no good answer to that.
4210<AnotherLurker> I was lucky and the thing with the PQ kinda dissolved on its own as the PQ had a big series of infighting
4211<AnotherLurker> but if it continued, my province would probably be a huge mess right now.
4212<damnusername> multiple years of cooldown with nothing to give fire to the suspicion
4213<@Blackknight64> Honestly, the fact that we're talking about it here is a good sign.
4214<@Blackknight64> At least for this chat.
4215<damnusername> that's the only obvious option to me that doesn't involve a massive amount of government intervention
4216<@GamingWolfie> At least nobody immediatly jumped of IRC and initiated ALL OF THE EMERGENCY PROCEDURES
4217<@GamingWolfie> TIME FOR WORLD WAR 3
4218<@RotoSequence> We kinda gotta wait for the thing people are nervous about to play out
4219<Ogre> ...
4220<@RotoSequence> In this case, the Nunes Memo
4221<Ogre> that you know of.
4222<AnotherLurker> Also minor correction
4223<AnotherLurker> shooting happened in 2012
4224<AnotherLurker> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Montreal_shooting
4225<+gonzobot> Title: 2012 Montreal shooting - Wikipedia
4226<AnotherLurker> I goofed the dates
4227<katiedid> https://twitter.com/charliespiering/status/959244186175209472
4228<+gonzobot> (katiedid) ✓@charliespiering (Charlie Spiering): Trump had press pool was escorted out within five minutes of beginning his remarks at the RNC meeting - killing the broadcast entirely (1 hour and 32 minutes ago)
4229<@ctwelve> Thank you
4230»» @ctwelve reads up
4231<katiedid> https://twitter.com/charliespiering/status/959257954414362625
4232<@ctwelve> it's not a grand conspiracy
4233<+gonzobot> (katiedid) ✓@charliespiering (Charlie Spiering): - @BreitbartNews has obtained audio of Trump’s speech after press pool was sent out of his speech (38 minutes and 48 seconds ago)
4234<@Blackknight64> Yep, that's what we figured
4235<@ctwelve> but yeah. Myself, I just told myself to stop obsessively checking the news
4236<@ctwelve> on the one hand, it /matters/ because stakes are very, very high
4237<katiedid> Blackknight64: I hate having to add twitter to my list of resources I dig through :P
4238<@Blackknight64> Understandly. :P
4239<@ctwelve> but on the other hand, I think deliberately stepping back for just a moment is beneficial. What happens happens, tomorrow.
4240<katiedid> I hate that fucking platform
4241<@ctwelve> I think QAnon has done a lot to poison the shit out of a lot of people's perceptions
4242<@ctwelve> And all that
4243<Ogre> QAnon?
4244<Ogre> what's that?
4245<@GamingWolfie> QuantumAnon
4246<@GamingWolfie> its very condenced 4chan
4247<@ctwelve> Yeah. Basically a collective rabbit-holing on the Chans about conspiracy and all that surrounding Trump
4248<@RotoSequence> Some nerd who speaks in riddles on the chans
4249<@GamingWolfie> atleast thats what it means to me
4250<katiedid> Ogre: I like your point
4251<@RotoSequence> Hinting at big power plays in the Intel world as a "white hat" for Trump'
4252<katiedid> It bothers me that's where my mind went
4253<Ogre> which point is that?
4254<katiedid> "This is something totally believable to me"
4255<katiedid> Like, with as good as the polls were regarding the SotU
4256<@ctwelve> Politics has been a deeply painful thing for the last...oh, two years at this point, but the last month or two have been especially awful
4257<Ogre> yeah
4258<katiedid> The media either needs to take a giant dose of reality and realize they're losing this battle
4259<Ogre> I regularly check my preps
4260<katiedid> That people /are/ in fact waking up
4261<%HaplessOperator> Hard not to, given the culture of lawlessness in the FBI's top echelons, and all the folks that kept accidentally shooting themselves twice square in the back of the head 
4262<Kralizec> katiedid: This was expected after the election
4263<katiedid> His speech changed the minds of many center-left Americans
4264<katiedid> And the media wasn't really prepared for that
4265<Kralizec> Of course, that didn't exactly happen.
4266<%HaplessOperator> Oh, yeah, the poll numbers after SOTU were hilarious 
4267<@ctwelve> Well, I mean honestly? They have painted as something so utterly fucking cartoonishly Snidely Whiplash awful, all he had to do was not rape a child to death on national television and that alone would have red pilled people
4268<@ctwelve> I've never seen or even *read* about anything this absutrd
4269<@ctwelve> it's Kafkaesque
4270<@ctwelve> we didn't see this shit in the /soviet union/
4271<@GamingWolfie> In soviet Russia Soviet russia is USA?
4272<@ctwelve> I mean from the standpoint that it's just absurd how Pravda they're being
4273<@RotoSequence> He means this brand of cartoonish villification
4274<@ctwelve> like, even Pravda wasn't this ridiculous 
4275<@ctwelve> at the end of the day they still had to convey /news/
4276<@ctwelve> but CNN just straight-up *makes shit up*
4277<@ctwelve> live, on-air
4278<@ctwelve> stuff that can be fact checked in real time
4279<@ctwelve> because people have an Internet
4280<theAncientOne> And their dwindling viewership reflects that fact
4281<@ctwelve> Anyway, reminder: https://www.themountain.com/corn-on-the-cob-t-shirt/
4282<+gonzobot> Title: Corn on the Cob T-Shirt
4283<damnusername> why?
4284<damnusername> why is that a thing?
4285<theAncientOne> because he's all ears
4286<@ctwelve> You must suffer for your crimes.
4287<damnusername> what crimes?
4288<damnusername> I REGRET NOTHING
4289»» Kralizec punts theAncientOne into the sun
4290<damnusername> NOTHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING
4291<theAncientOne> the crimes of corny jokes
4292<damnusername> oooooh, you meant ancient
4293<@ctwelve> I found the dad, guys
4294<damnusername> never mind, carry on
4295<theAncientOne> just remember at the center of every joke there's a kernel of truth
4296»» ctwelve has kicked theAncientOne from ##HFYpolitics (NO.)
4297---» theAncientOne (uid118176@Snoonet-tur6pd.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
4298<theAncientOne> YES
4299<damnusername> I'm in too good a mood to get upset
4300<@ctwelve> theAncientOne NO
4301<damnusername> so that actually got a snort from me
4302»» theAncientOne fills ctwelve with high-fructose corn syrup
4303»» damnusername goes to grab a can of coke
4304<damnusername> same difference in the end
4305<theAncientOne> i can't help it, jokes like that are ...ingrained
4306<Kralizec> OH
4307<Kralizec> MY
4308<Kralizec> GOD
4309<damnusername> careful ancient, you might be getting a starchy reception soon
4310<theAncientOne> ...trying to work up a good corn silk pun here.
4311<@ctwelve> Anyway
4312<@Blackknight64> Man, theAncientOne has planted the seed for a new meme here.
4313<@ctwelve> I'm glad y'all talked it out
4314<@ctwelve> but honestly? I worry for y'all's sanity just as much as mine
4315<theAncientOne> you might even say i've planted cornrows of them.
4316<sanity> its ok u dont have to worry about me
4317<@ctwelve> If I could be a total twat and proffer advice, given the last couple weeks and the shitshow that is likely tomorrow?
4318<@ctwelve> I'd say...step back from politics for now
4319<@Blackknight64> We never did, sanity
4320<@GamingWolfie> you are missing the in sanity 
4321<@ctwelve> and go, I dunno, fuck buttifull wimmens or whatever yer into
4322<theAncientOne> i'm investing in popcorn for the weekend, ctwelve. in all seriousness.
4323<@ctwelve> or, just relax
4324<a_man_in_black> i've been ignoring this channel and just watching porn and playing vidya
4325<a_man_in_black> much less confusion there
4326»» damnusername fires a_man_in_black into a water temple
4327»» damnusername immerses a_man_in_black into the cancerous canon wank that is the fnaf fandom
4328<damnusername> do you want me to go on?
4329<damnusername> I got more if I need to think
4330<AnotherLurker> a_man_in_black, sounds like a plan
4331«--- RotoSequence (RotoSequenc@user/RotoSequence) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
4332<%HaplessOperator> ctwelve: Did you see my observation last night 
4333<%HaplessOperator> First complete year after Trump in office
4334<@ctwelve> Which one?
4335<%HaplessOperator> Super Bowl is Eagles and Patriots 
4336<@ctwelve> Heh
4337<@ctwelve> Much trigger
4338<@ctwelve> Such patriot
4339«--- Hellbender (Hellbender@user/Hellbender) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
4340---» RotoSequence (RotoSequenc@user/RotoSequence) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
4341<@Patriarchy> [RotoSequence] [Bronyism Intensifies]
4342»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o RotoSequence)
4343»» You are now known as GamingWolfie|Zzz
4344<Ogre> jesus -christ-
4345<Ogre> what the fuck is wrong with these fucking people.
4346<Ogre> NCIS, season 3, episode 1.
4347<Ogre> Kate Todd has just been murdered.
4348<Ogre> both of her male co-workers have just had sexual fantasies about her.
4349<Ogre> ...
4350<Ogre> nevermind who does that.
4351<Ogre> who the fuck -thinks- people do that?!
4352<katiedid> Thinks about having sex with someone who recently died?
4353<katiedid> Definitely not me
4354<katiedid> >.>
4355<katiedid> NECROPHILIA IS AN ACCEPTABLE KINK TOO
4356«--- Voychek (uid107269@AI-COM/RSPN.SIGNON) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4357<Kralizec> >necrophilia is an acceptable kink too
4358»» Kralizec eyes katiedid worriedly
4359<damnusername> am I gonna have to learn necromancy to unwierd this now
4360»» katiedid eyes Kralizec murderly
4361<damnusername> I swear to fuck I will if I need to
4362<Tilted> Hmm, let's see if this will work
4363<Tilted> .grab katiedid
4364<+gonzobot> (Tilted) the operation succeeded.
4365<Tilted> I don't remember the command for showing grabs for specific people
4366<a_man_in_black> .grabr
4367<+gonzobot> <c​twelve> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/g9GZ9ej4/IMG_0045.JPG
4368<a_man_in_black> ...
4369<Tilted> Well that's just for showing random ones
4370<Tilted> .grabr a_man_in_black
4371<+gonzobot> <a​_man_in_black> i went this long without mentioning it, i blame being out of coffee for flappin my gums
4372»» Kralizec stares at katiedid
4373<Tilted> .grabr katiedid
4374<+gonzobot> <k​atiedid> DICKS ARE FANTASTIC
4375»» Disconnected (No such device or address).
4376 
4377* Loaded log from Fri Feb  2 05:33:30 2018
4378 
4379»» Now talking on ##HFYpolitics
4380»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics is: HFY [Politics] All opinions expressed herein are personal to the expresser :: Channel Rules: https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/ref/faq/irc // Don't be an asshole, y'all // <<++ NUNES MEMO SOON™ ++ 48 HOUR RULE IN EFFECT >> // FOR MODERATED DISCUSSIONS, PLEASE MESSAGE THE MODS
4381»» Topic for ##HFYpolitics set by RotoSequence!RotoSequenc@user/RotoSequence at Thu Feb  1 20:46:39 2018
4382<@Patriarchy> [GamingWolfie] I am the Archwolf; High Prophet to the Potato. The Bringer of the Starchy Word, the Purveyor of Order. Kneel before me: http://i.imgur.com/K4OVGW2.png
4383»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o GamingWolfie)
4384»» AnotherLurker|Zzz is now known as AnotherLurker
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4386»» AnotherLurker is now known as AnotherLurker|Exam
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4389<cricket> https://i.redd.it/dju9e7suwpd01.jpg
4390<%HaplessOperator> lol
4391<cricket> https://i.redd.it/n89ymbemasd01.jpg
4392»» %HaplessOperator crosses his fingers
4393<@Blackknight64> Trololol
4394---» Hellbender (Hellbender@Snoonet-bv0pmc.a4ph.idd7.ghlbfp.IP) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
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4398<VAE_work> https://78.media.tumblr.com/6572bcfcddf354864ed30b624639a548/tumblr_p3ir19sRVK1qj46iqo1_500.jpg
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4401<a_man_in_black> i just took the yeugest morning poop
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4407<Hellbender> Memo released yet?
4408<a_man_in_black> so far the only thing released today was  my morning poop
4409<@ctwelve> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7usi8s/memo_is_on_its_way_leaving_white_house_for_hpsci/dtmr70y/
4410<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) Memo is on its way!!! Leaving White House for HPSCI : The_Donald - 1 comment, 22 points - jaredb45, 2m ago
4411<Hellbender> Already fud flying
4412<a_man_in_black> hey ctwelve, traditionally doesn't the president have authority to have just declassified it by declaring it so? or is it more complicated with stuff from within various departments
4413<@ctwelve> He does
4414<@ctwelve> they're making a huge dramafest out of all of it
4415<Hellbender> I was under the impression that the memo wasn't *that* classified already.
4416<@ctwelve> it's a legislative product so the House controls 
4417<@ctwelve> the President's role is merely declassification
4418<Hellbender> being created specifically to be read by uncleared people
4419<@ctwelve> they're just being absurdly reality tv about it
4420<@ctwelve> It was likely derivative classification
4421<@ctwelve> work products derived from classified sources are themselves classified
4422<@ctwelve> but they can be declassified
4423<@ctwelve> usually through an FDO
4424<@ctwelve> or, if you want to be super drama about it
4425<@ctwelve> the President himself
4426<Hellbender> Isn't it great to have a reality TV star as a president?
4427<@ctwelve> Not really, no.
4428<@ctwelve> He's a necessary evil
4429<Tox> he's here to turn the machine on its head
4430<Tox> maybe after Trump we can return to a normal
4431<Hellbender> I just hope this doesn't become a pattern in future presidents ctwelve. Fucking Oprah 2020 m8
4432<@ctwelve> There's no normal after this, I fear
4433<@ctwelve> Oprah has already said she's not running, which is relief
4434<@ctwelve> which opens the way for Kanye
4435<@ctwelve> :P
4436<Tox> pls
4437<Tox> I'mma let you finish, ctwelve 
4438<Tox> but Kanye--
4439»» Tox shot dead
4440<@ctwelve> #Tupac2020
4441<Tox> lord
4442<Hellbender> ctwelve, My biggest hope out of this is balkanization of the media
4443<Hellbender> When everyone is alternative, no one is
4444»» Hellbender could probably be described best as a localist
4445<Hellbender> Hmm maybe not
4446<@ctwelve> Fox News is reporting in on it
4447<Tox> is it everything we ever dreamed of
4448<@ctwelve> Well
4449<@ctwelve> Hambone: come in here
4450<@ctwelve> So here's the first bit
4451<@ctwelve> The FISA warrant was granted on the weight of the Steele Dossier and media reports /alone/
4452<@ctwelve> and the media reports were generated /directly/ by Fusion GPS
4453<@ctwelve> the financing of the Dossier was known at the time, and was not conveyed to the FISA court
4454<@ctwelve> In other words, the President-Elect was spied on based on literal fanfiction
4455«--- Hellbender (Hellbender@user/Hellbender) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
4456<@ctwelve> Fruit of the Poisoned Tree quite likely applies here
4457<@ctwelve> And that's just the initial reporting from Fox.
4458<@ctwelve> https://intelligence.house.gov/
4459<+gonzobot> Title: U.S. House of Representatives Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
4460<@ctwelve> Start spamming, y'all
4461<a_man_in_black> jesus christ
4462<a_man_in_black> if i'm adding all this up right ctwelve
4463<a_man_in_black> beacuse of poisoned fruit of the poisoned tree
4464<a_man_in_black> the trump campaign group could have been eating babies, and it would get thrown out of court because of no basis for the warrants
4465<a_man_in_black> or rather, fraudulent basis for warrants
4466<@ctwelve> they literally initiated a spy operation against an incoming President on the basis of nothing more than lies
4467«--- HaplessOperator (uid190790@Phenotypic.Diversity.Reduction.Specialist) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4468<@ctwelve> Here it is: https://twitter.com/willinilii/status/959475055792095233
4469<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @willinilIi (willinilIi): The Memo cc @kevinh07 @overchiII https://t.co/uWahXkRMoU (14 minutes and 34 seconds ago)
4470<Tox> jesus
4471<Tox> no wonder they were fighting to squash it.
4472<Tox> So we're gonna be waiting for someone to synthesize a cliffs notes for this, yeah?
4473<Tox> I don't think I've got the chops to digest the entire thing
4474<Kralizec> Its four pages dude
4475<Tox> Wait what? I thought we were getting a giant datadump
4476<Kralizec> No. The memo itself is only four pages and is a summary as to the FISA abuses wrt the Trump campaign
4477<Kralizec> The memo -is- the cliff notes.
4478<Tox> Ahh
4479<Tox> Are we getting more later, I trust?
4480<a_man_in_black> fox is talking about it right now
4481<a_man_in_black> not only was the presented document to apply for the wiretapping warrant bogus, it cited an unverified yahoo article that had nothing to do with the matter as additional reasons
4482<@ctwelve> The left's reaction: https://twitter.com/ElenondRPG/status/959483205807034369
4483<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @ElenondRPG (ElenondRPG): @TheCTwelve Snooze fest 😴 (3 minutes and 8 seconds ago)
4484<@ctwelve> https://twitter.com/TheCTwelve/status/959485129369337856
4485<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @TheCTwelve (Justin Croonenberghs): @ElenondRPG ...that was me, paraphrasing. Don't be obsequious. Did you actually read the damn thing or are you robo… https://t.co/8r3pJjBJaZ (18 seconds ago)
4486<@Blackknight64> ...lol
4487»» AnotherLurker|Exam is now known as AnotherLurker
4488<@Blackknight64> Goddamn
4489---» BelgianRockfan (uid71662@user/BelgianRockfan) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
4490<VAE_work> that guy is
4491<VAE_work> such
4492<VAE_work> a fucking
4493<VAE_work>  idiot
4494<VAE_work>  ElenondRPG‏ @ElenondRPG
4495<VAE_work> Replying to @TheCTwelve
4496<VAE_work> I read the entire thing, I guess I really don't care, because I'm waiting for the official verdict, which I'll accept regardless of outcome. Russia defo wanted him elected; just don't know if he was in on it or not. Again, I'll wait for Mueller's verdict
4497<VAE_work> Saudi Arabia wanted Hillary elected
4498«--- pins|mobile (uid116470@Snoonet-12e02v.eibh.q3g2.abchvt.IP) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4499<VAE_work>  I guess we should arrest her
4500<@ctwelve> he is
4501<VAE_work> because a foreign country hoping for an outcome is the same as influencing it
4502<@ctwelve> he's a masterwork of silly
4503<@Blackknight64> Jesus Christ.
4504<@Blackknight64> I just...
4505<@Blackknight64> Jesus fucking Chriat.
4506<VAE_work> you're making me want to create a twitter account
4507<VAE_work> just to get in on this shitstorm, c12
4508<@Blackknight64> These motherfuckers
4509<@Blackknight64> Even if there were something ongoing
4510<@Blackknight64> These motherfuckers made it illegal to use
4511<@ctwelve> https://gab.ai/ctwelve/posts/19136849
4512<+gonzobot> Title: GAB
4513<@ctwelve> So, basically, the ELI5 is this
4514<@ctwelve> also AnotherLurker it is MEMO DAY
4515<@Blackknight64> Because the opening salvo was fraudulently obtained
4516<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, it is?
4517<AnotherLurker> Well, what happened
4518<@ctwelve> 1) pay for oppo research
4519<@Blackknight64> Oh, my God
4520<AnotherLurker> is Pelosi on fire yet?
4521<@ctwelve> the FISA memo was released in full
4522<AnotherLurker> Did Bernie start firing into a crowd of anarcho-capitalists?
4523<@Blackknight64> Gimme the IG report.
4524<@ctwelve> It's better.
4525<@ctwelve> ^^
4526<@Blackknight64> God dude.
4527<@ctwelve> this is just whetting the appetite
4528<@ctwelve> by design
4529<@ctwelve> anyway
4530<@ctwelve> here's the summary
4531<@ctwelve> 1) Hillary and the DNC obtained the Steele Dossier, which is known fabricated bullshit
4532---» Hellbender (Hellbender@user/Hellbender) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
4533<@ctwelve> 2) via sidechannels, this was transmitted to the FBI. One of those side channels was John McCain
4534<@ctwelve> (that part is not in the memo)
4535<Hellbender> Memeo out yet?
4536---» RotoSequence (RotoSequenc@user/RotoSequence) has Joined ##HFYpolitics
4537<@Patriarchy> [RotoSequence] [Bronyism Intensifies]
4538»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +o RotoSequence)
4539<@ctwelve> 3) the FBI very quickly determined the dossier was bullshit
4540<@ctwelve> 4) senior leadership in the FBI used it anyway, along with a *YAHOO! ARTICLE INTERVIEWING STEELE ABOUT THE DOSSIER*
4541<@ctwelve> and used the resultant circular reporting to amplify the memo
4542<@ctwelve> 5) the FISC was not told of the origins of any of this, and in particular was not told it was DNC-funded oppo research, and that it was largely disproven *at the time*
4543<@ctwelve> 6) Comey eventually briefs President-Elect Trump about all this, then uses that pretext to have something to leak, thus forcing the dossier into the open
4544<@Blackknight64> I would dearly love to see the warrant request.
4545<@ctwelve> 7) in the meanwhile, the warrant had been renewed MULTIPLE TIMES, so the FBI/Rosenstein/Comey and crew *kept lying* to the FISC about everything
4546<@ctwelve> so, in other words
4547<@Blackknight64> Because you know, I've actually written out warrants.
4548<@Blackknight64> Or rather requests for
4549<@ctwelve> the full weight of the government was used to intimitely spy on Trump's campaign, and by extension Trump himself, based on false pretext. All of this led to the russia investigation and everything else that stemmed from that
4550<@ctwelve> all of that is implicated in the memo
4551<@ctwelve> the memo /does not/ however get into other bits we know are true
4552<@ctwelve> which is the widespread sharing of this surveillence capture across the Obama government
4553<@ctwelve> and what we *think* we know
4554<@Blackknight64> My murderboner is throbbing, ctwelve 
4555<@RotoSequence> Purportedly the memo is just the beginning, giving a broad overview of FISA abuse
4556<@ctwelve> which is that much of this found its way to the Hillary campaign
4557<@ctwelve> Yup
4558<@ctwelve> it's just the start
4559<@ctwelve> and the left is too stupid to see it.
4560«--- Hellbender (Hellbender@user/Hellbender) has Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds)
4561<a_man_in_black> it paints a picture of a hillary administration i'm extremely relieved did not happen
4562<AnotherLurker> ctwelve, the question remains if the right is able to effectively use this
4563<a_man_in_black> because it's straight up "lets use government tools to prosecute people we don't like" 
4564<AnotherLurker> because the few times something like this memo comes out and sticks a big old knife into the leftist hypeballoon, nothing comes of it
4565<AnotherLurker> because no one fucking hears about it.
4566«--- kaiden333 (uid98205@user/kaiden333) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4567<@ctwelve> Its not that simple, frankly
4568<@ctwelve> This is a generational fight. The only thing you can do is position yourself favorably.
4569<VAE_work> a_man_in_black yeah, spot on
4570<VAE_work> like
4571<VAE_work> this is literally worse than Watergate
4572<@ctwelve> This is a long, carefully laid-out attempt to pin oily fuckers ot the floor
4573<@ctwelve> the public opinion on this doesn't matter as much as you think, AnotherLurker
4574<@ctwelve> because it's just the start
4575<@ctwelve> what it is, is a chess piece.
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4577<AnotherLurker> Okay.
4578<@Blackknight64> Knight on the move.
4579<@ctwelve> Anyway
4580<@ctwelve> https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=856
4581<+gonzobot> Title: Nunes Statement on Release of HPSCI Memo | U.S. House of Representatives
4582<AnotherLurker> So provided the peices are position well, and we got plenty of peices to play, thisll work out
4583<@Blackknight64> Setting up for bishop play.
4584<@ctwelve> https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/memo_and_white_house_letter.pdf
4585<@ctwelve> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/7utdko/the_beginning_of_the_end_of_the_mueller/
4586<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) The Beginning of the End of the Mueller Investigation : The_Donald - 55 comments, 519 points - BamaBangs, 8m ago
4587<@Blackknight64> I can't stress this enough.
4588<@Blackknight64> This is the kind of shit that would have gotten me fired or in jail as a cop.
4589<@Blackknight64> Obtaining a warrant on false pretenses is a life ender.
4590<AnotherLurker> ctwelve,  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/2/democratic-leaders-tell-trump-not-use-memo-fire-ro/
4591<+gonzobot> Title: Democratic leaders tell Trump not to use memo to fire Rosenstein, Mueller - Washington Times
4592<@ctwelve> Yahoo! was earlier reporting this as "Trump defies FBI"
4593<@ctwelve> Like...BITCH, PLEASE.
4594<@ctwelve> that's like a general defying a private
4595<@Blackknight64> Yeah, fun fact.
4596<AnotherLurker> https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7usv0k/megathread_white_house_releases_controversial/
4597<AnotherLurker> >No fox
4598<AnotherLurker> >No the Federalist
4599<AnotherLurker> >No InstaPundit
4600<AnotherLurker> okay then
4601<@Blackknight64> Mueller, Rosenstein, and the FBI are all employed at the leisure of the President.
4602<VAE_work> Democrats said they believe the memo�s release was intended to undercut Mr. Mueller�s probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 election. Mr. Rosenstein ordered that probe after Mr. Trump fired FBI Director James B. Comey, who was involved in spreading the tainted information detailed in the new GOP memo.
4603<VAE_work> LMAO
4604<VAE_work> Well, duh
4605<VAE_work> I think the information that the investigation was started on the basis of false pretenses
4606<VAE_work> is a great reason to undercut it
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4608<AnotherLurker> Blackknight64, the delusion in /r/politics is unreal
4609<AnotherLurker> holy shit
4610<@Blackknight64> Well, sure dude.
4611<@Blackknight64> Look at who you're talking about.
4612<AnotherLurker> fair
4613<VAE_work> asfwfew
4614<VAE_work> i just
4615<VAE_work> looked at r/politics
4616<VAE_work> I 
4617<VAE_work> uh
4618<VAE_work> GODS
4619<VAE_work> https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7uqsof/donald_trump_accuses_fbi_and_justice_department/dtmehmm/
4620<+gonzobot> (VAE_work) Donald Trump accuses FBI and Justice Department of favouring... : politics - 5,843 comments, 37,399 points - jsdow640, 7h ago
4621<VAE_work> look at this moron
4622<@RotoSequence> What was one of the examples Ogre gave of the FBI absolutely not being worthy of pubic respect?
4623<@RotoSequence> public even
4624<@RotoSequence> lel
4625<VAE_work> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/releasing-the-nunes-memo-is-trumps-most-unethical-act-since-firing-comey/2018/02/01/082967be-06a9-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.4bd802df8119
4626<+gonzobot> Title: Releasing the Nunes memo is Trump’s most unethical act since firing Comey - The Washington Post
4627<VAE_work> RotoSequence - Ruby Ridge
4628<VAE_work> it's in a sense even worse than the Waco siege
4629<VAE_work> Ruby Ridge culminated in FBI killing a dude's son, wife and another kid, and started on with them trying to press on him since they wanted him as an informant and he refused
4630<VAE_work> it's like.. a monstrous version of "arrested for resisting arrest"
4631<AnotherLurker> VAE_work, in the future link to reddit comments with np.reddit.com/[link]
4632<VAE_work> as the sole item on someones's list
4633<AnotherLurker> snoonet rules and all that jazz
4634<VAE_work> what's np?
4635<AnotherLurker> instead of the link you posted it should be https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/7uqsof/donald_trump_accuses_fbi_and_justice_department/dtmehmm/ instead
4636<+gonzobot> Title: magicsonar comments on Donald Trump accuses FBI and Justice Department of favouring Democrats over Republicans
4637<AnotherLurker> Oh
4638<AnotherLurker> uhm np disables voting
4639<AnotherLurker> prevents vote manipulation or some shit. thats as far as I understand the reason for the rule
4640<VAE_work> oh right
4641<VAE_work> so you can't malform the URL so that everyone who clicks on it votes
4642<VAE_work> kk will tr to remember
4643<VAE_work> but gods
4644<VAE_work> is the washington post shitting through its teeth
4645<VAE_work> it's 
4646<VAE_work> basically the same as the guy who broke into someone's basement suing for compensation because he broke his leg
4647<VAE_work> they're babbling about how Trump should not have done it because he's under investigation
4648<VAE_work> completely ignoring the fact that this helps to show the roots of the investigation are utter bullshit
4649<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/mb85p2zn8ud01.jpg
4650<VAE_work> YEP
4651<VAE_work> this is basically Belarus style
4652<VAE_work> Election coming?
4653<VAE_work> let's try to arrest opposition candidates
4654<@ctwelve> This...it doesn’t make me mad. Because I’ve been at peace with the reality for some time. It just makes me anxious to see the end game.
4655<@Blackknight64> I uh, tend to run a little hotter than ctwelve.
4656<@Blackknight64> I knew this shit was coming.
4657<@Blackknight64> To a t.
4658«--- Voychek (uid107269@AI-COM/RSPN.SIGNON) has Quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4659<@Blackknight64> And I'm still frothing angry.
4660<Kralizec> I'm a bit speechless, honestly.
4661<Kralizec> Like, not much of it is a surprise, but... damn.
4662<@RotoSequence> https://i.imgur.com/DBsnp0t.jpg
4663<@Blackknight64> Yep.
4664<@RotoSequence> https://i.imgur.com/qpADcIU.jpg
4665<@Blackknight64> Pretty textbook sedition.
4666<@Blackknight64> Amusingly, I was talking to my Dad about it.
4667<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/9pzp6lyobud01.png
4668<@RotoSequence> Shockingly the Democrats are guilty of what they accused Trump of.
4669<@ctwelve> God. https://twitter.com/thectwelve/status/959507346492928001?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Eios%7Ctwgr%5Ecom.irccloud.IRCCloud.ShareExtension%7Ctwcon%5E7100%7Ctwterm%5E0
4670<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @TheCTwelve (Justin Croonenberghs): Except for, y’know, the bits where you essentially forged a surveillance warrant using a document you knew was fals… https://t.co/PFtEUrCvh1 (1 minute and 18 seconds ago)
4671<@RotoSequence> Wew, nice :P
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4676<@ctwelve> And the spin is already underway. https://twitter.com/thectwelve/status/959510954538135554?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Eios%7Ctwgr%5Ecom.irccloud.IRCCloud.ShareExtension%7Ctwcon%5E7100%7Ctwterm%5E0
4677<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @TheCTwelve (Justin Croonenberghs): @guypbenson Alarming if true. Too bad the last year means I don’t believe a word any @DNC hack says, ever. Transcripts or it didn’t happen. (25 seconds ago)
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4679<@RotoSequence> https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/959484357244342272
4680<+gonzobot> (RotoSequence) ✓@seanmdav (Sean Davis): Wow. Unmentioned here is that a former Isikoff researcher at NBC, Taylor Sears, worked for Fusion GPS at the time a… https://t.co/PPCcgmOZ8C (1 hour and 59 minutes ago)
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4682<@RotoSequence> 'lo Ogre 
4683<Ogre> hey, how's things?
4684<VAE_work> FISA memo is out
4685<@RotoSequence> They're alright as they can be I guess
4686<@RotoSequence> But yeah, the Nunes memo is exactly what we expected
4687<Ogre> oh?
4688<Ogre> and what did we expect?
4689<@RotoSequence> The FBI lied to the FISC to acquire a fraudulent FISA warrant to conduct an investigation on false premises against a Candidate and later President in an attempt to sway the outcome in Hillary Clinton's favor.
4690<Ogre> any suicides yet?
4691<@RotoSequence> None that I know of
4692<Ogre> I see the democrats are already screaming that it's a fake.
4693<Ogre> I just woke up.
4694<Ogre> it's funny
4695<Ogre> while the american left was screaming 'look, hitler!'.... they were being hitler all along.
4696<VAE_work> NO OBAMA, YOU ARE THE FASCISTS
4697<VAE_work> AND THEN BARRACK WAS HIMMLER
4698<Ogre> literally hitler. staging a fake crisis to seize power.
4699<a_man_in_black> history most certainly rhymes
4700<Tox> and yet, nobody's been metaphorically dragged from the halls of power
4701<Ogre> nobody's going to prison.
4702<Ogre> shit, we'll be lucky if anyone retires.
4703<Jalapenyo> >The FBI got a warrant because of the dossier based on a yahoo news article based on the dossier which was compiled by an FBI informant 
4704<Tox> that's kinda bogus.
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4706»» Patriarchy sets modes (##HFYpolitics +h HaplessOperator)
4707<Jalapenyo> Hoo boy 
4708<Ogre> welcome to america.
4709<Tox> we're better than that.
4710<Jalapenyo> Wait, no 
4711<Tox> or we ought to be.
4712<Ogre> we were.
4713<Ogre> some of us still are.
4714<Ogre> but we are few, and the enemy is -many-.
4715<Jalapenyo> >The FBI acquired a warrant because of a dossier as reported by yahoo news as informed by an FBI informant who wrote the dossier, despite the FBI having not vetted the dossier that the article that the warrant was based on was based on
4716<Jalapenyo> I think I need a picture or something 
4717<Jalapenyo> Wait, fucking lol
4718<Jalapenyo> >Agent Sztrok was reassigned to Human Resources after inappropriate text messages to his mistress were discovered 
4719<Jalapenyo> I thought HR put the hammer on people who send inappropriate texts to their mistress 
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4721<@ctwelve> Patience, everyone.
4722<@ctwelve> this does not constitute evidence.
4723<@ctwelve> it constitutes a committee's cliff notes on the evidence
4724<@ctwelve> it's basically a political tool
4725<@ctwelve> the REAL fireworks begins when the IG report drops
4726<@ctwelve> https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/959493280227627008
4727<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @omriceren (Omri Ceren): Look how they weaponized media echo chamber: * leak to a reporter to produce collusion story (Isikoff) * use coll… https://t.co/OPO5F15oYq (1 hour and 51 minutes ago)
4728<Ogre> I note the left is already scrambling to claim the memo's a fake.
4729<@ctwelve> Of course.
4730<Ogre> it's looking at a 6 year old with chocolate face earnestly trying to tell you that no, really, the dog at the chocolate.
4731<Ogre> but yeah, nobody's going to prison.
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4733<Ogre> I mean, if  special agent Lon Horuchican shoot a baby in the face at 100 meters, on purpose, and never see a day in jail, I think Comey's pretty safe.
4734<Ogre> I mean, if  special agent Lon Horuchi can shoot a baby in the face at 100 meters, on purpose, and never see a day in jail, I think Comey's pretty safe. 
4735<Ogre> Also, the idea that Horuchi 'accidentally' hit the Weaver's baby is laughable.
4736<Tox> That was different. The American public mostly bought Ruby Ridge at the time, from what I remember reading.
4737<Tox> Could be wrong. I wasn't in touch with people like you back when I first learned of it.
4738<Ogre> oh, the state tried like -hell- to arrest and prosecute Horuchi.
4739<Ogre> the Feds told the state of Idaho to go fuck themselves, and used a rarely used privilage where they can quash state level charges without effort.
4740<a_man_in_black> ruby ridge was a blatant example of the blue wall rubbing its immunity in the face of the public 
4741<@ctwelve> https://twitter.com/Imperator_Rex3/status/959523313545486336
4742<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) @Imperator_Rex3 (Imperator_Rex): 1. THIS is exactly what I thought. https://t.co/7MywKiOtNi (13 minutes and 22 seconds ago)
4743<a_man_in_black> it did make Idaho even more isolationist and anti fed than it was before 
4744<Ogre> can you blame them?
4745<@ctwelve> https://twitter.com/RepLeeZeldin/status/959525052025683968
4746<+gonzobot> (ctwelve) ✓@RepLeeZeldin (Lee Zeldin): McCabe did in fact testify under oath that there would not have been a FISA warrant if not for the dossier. It was recorded. (8 minutes and 58 seconds ago)
4747<Hellbender> I guess the memo is gonna get ignored?
4748<Ogre> I think the Left's plan is to throw enough chaff to present a reasonable doubt.
4749<%HaplessOperator> I like how it's just an official record of everything The_Donald has been saying since 2016
4750»» ctwelve is now known as ctwelveConference
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4752<Hellbender> Ogre, The current narrative seems to be that it was a dud
4753<Ogre> hm?
4754<Tehpillowstar> SWOLEGoat, Nunes memo is out now
4755<Tehpillowstar> tl;dr it was exactly as we expected
4756<SWOLEGoat> Tehpillowstar: I should read it, but I'm already reating the fallout from it
4757<SWOLEGoat> and delighted
4758<Ogre> bleh.
4759<SWOLEGoat> not delighted that it happened, but delighted that it was as expected and that it /actually got released/
4760<VAE> ^
4761<Hellbender> SWOLEGoat, http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180129/106822/HMTG-115-IG00-20180129-SD001.pdf
4762<Tehpillowstar> IG?
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4764<a_man_in_black> inspector general
4765<Tehpillowstar> ah
4766<Hellbender> So has the memo officially got a name so I can look at highlights?
4767<@RotoSequence> its short
4768<@RotoSequence> https://imgur.com/a/JbCxw
4769<+gonzobot> Title: FISA MEMO - Full Text - Album on Imgur
4770<SWOLEGoat> Hellbender: thx
4771<Hellbender> Got any highlights for me SWOLEGoat?
4772<SWOLEGoat> Hellbender: I haven't been reading it, I was BSing with a friend
4773<SWOLEGoat> (irl)
4774<Hellbender> SWOLEGoat, No no, from the reactions
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4776<a_man_in_black> watching the presidents remarks from this morning on fox
4777<a_man_in_black> looks like he's getting ready to start slashing foreign aid to countries who ship drugs into the US
4778<a_man_in_black> i can't wait for the salt to flow from that one
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4780<VAE> https://68.media.tumblr.com/6cd99929c35b57086fda1009dd121ec3/tumblr_p3jiuqtOcv1sxs2mko1_1280.jpg for something completely different
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4784<@ctwelve> Hellbender: I suspect that attempt to dissemble is going to bite them in the ass
4785<@ctwelve> because the IG report is coming
4786<@ctwelve> and that one is expected to be a hell of a lot worse
4787<Hellbender> Hmm
4788<@ctwelve> the memo was, after all, nothing but a summary
4789<@ctwelve> a cliff-notes version
4790<@ctwelve> the minority report will be interesting to read
4791<@ctwelve> and the left will crow victory
4792<@ctwelve> marinate in it for a while
4793<@ctwelve> ...then the IG report will hit
4794<VAE> what's the IG report?
4795<@ctwelve> Inspector General
4796<@ctwelve> that's not due out for a while yet
4797<@ctwelve> frankly, none of today surprises me
4798»» galrock0 is now known as pulprock0
4799<@ctwelve> and it should be pointed out to everyone, Ogre Blackknight64 and y'all, this is basically exactly how shit was forcasted to go down, too
4800<@ctwelve> right down to the Kabuki
4801<@ctwelve> _rex on twitter has been talking about this for a long time
4802<@ctwelve> as has sundance
4803<@Blackknight64> Mmm?
4804<@Blackknight64> Yeah, I know
4805»» pulprock0 is now known as galrock0
4806<Hellbender> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcL0mjMjw <-- American politics right now
4807<+gonzobot> (Hellbender) Aerosmith - Livin' On The Edge - length 6m 17s - 101,506 likes, 3,780 dislikes (96.4%) - 49,719,633 views - AerosmithVEVO on 2009.12.24
4808<Hellbender> I also forgot how weird music videos got
4809<CTMGame> So I found the anthem of the Young Liberals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-TwowA_Rkg
4810<+gonzobot> (CTMGame) JuLi Hymne - length 4m 21s - 378 likes, 280 dislikes (57.4%) - 60,083 views - yachtclubundbuchteln on 2009.09.15
4811<CTMGame> Anthem is literal
4812<CTMGame> It's written like a national anthem
4813<CTMGame> Kinda cringeworthy, but pretty good if you gain some ironic distance.
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4816<Hellbender> CTMGame, Sir, Sir. I don't speak japanese
4817<Hellbender> This is an english channel and your video doesn't seem to have CC
4818<galrock0> ^
4819<CTMGame> I was gonna post a translation
4820<CTMGame> Of parts
4821<CTMGame> Hang on
4822<galrock0> ty
4823»» galrock0 does not speak german
4824<CTMGame> "Red (Social Democrats) and Green will never scare us, Black (Christian Democrats) will never divide us! Freedom is our ideal, since we are young and liberal!"
4825<@RotoSequence> https://i.redd.it/yqu8nq0c6td01.jpg
4826<@RotoSequence> Some people think it's a coil gun
4827<@Blackknight64> https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-sues-russia-collusion-fisa-documents/amp/
4828<+gonzobot> Title: Judicial Watch Sues for Russia Collusion FISA Documents - Judicial Watch
4829<Hellbender> galrock0, Are you familar with European political parties?
4830<galrock0> vaguely not really sorta
4831<galrock0> kinda familiar with uk ones 
4832<galrock0> but got nothing for other european countries
4833<Hellbender> galrock0, the liberal party roughly maps to our libertarians, but you know, relevant
4834<galrock0> lol
4835<Hellbender> Do I have that correct CTMGame?
4836<CTMGame> Hellbender: It's complicated
4837<CTMGame> It's more like Michael Bloomberg
4838<CTMGame> Imagine pro-business Democrats
4839<CTMGame> In absolute terms
4840<galrock0> ok
4841<CTMGame> In relative terms, absolutely
4842<Hellbender> So apparently Soros got hacked
4843<Hellbender> I missed that
4844<CTMGame> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/SYlkeuYT/
4845<+gonzobot> Title: Snippet | IRCCloud
4846<CTMGame> This is the whole text
4847<Hellbender> CTMGame, The American Libertatians are very pro immigration by the wat
4848<CTMGame> I have no issue with the stances presented here
4849<CTMGame> I am more going after the presentation as a "national" anthem
4850<Hellbender> Yeah, pretty much could be sung by the american libertarian party no problem
4851<CTMGame> The mother party, the FDP, has outlined plans to partially federalize the school system though
4852<CTMGame> Which would definitely never fly with the US libertarians