17NAxsB8

12019-11-15 01:56:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "anyone awake?"
22019-11-15 01:56:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Mostly awake"
32019-11-15 01:57:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "drat. carry on."
42019-11-15 01:57:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "also hello."
52019-11-15 01:57:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Hello!"
62019-11-15 01:57:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "everything in order?"
72019-11-15 01:59:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "Galli was about to embark on his early morning ramblings :)"
82019-11-15 02:00:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Testing for minimum viable audience?"
92019-11-15 02:00:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "what? that's *shuffles cards* a complete and total lie, and you should feel ashamed."
102019-11-15 02:01:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "it is evening in Australia and I have become accustomed to "Evenings with Galli" as I like to call them..."
112019-11-15 02:01:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "coffee.. watch scroll fly by.. and delight in the mind behind Gallifreius"
122019-11-15 02:02:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I would love to take credit for this, but truth be told - I've always just chosen a topic and rambled on. I can't even tell you the last thing I ranted about."
132019-11-15 02:02:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like there's no show, here. I just sort of. abuse the silence."
142019-11-15 02:03:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like graffiti. without the artistic merritt. =p"
152019-11-15 02:05:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "alright. here's what I'm going to do. given nobody is speaking;"
162019-11-15 02:05:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'm going to take a hefty drink, and hit a random word generator until something springs up."
172019-11-15 02:06:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "then I'm going to sit here, and speak in an authoritative voice."
182019-11-15 02:06:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "whilst also pretending as though my humility, allows me to make such claims."
192019-11-15 02:07:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "I'm enthralled already. Can't wait for the elaboration :p"
202019-11-15 02:11:26 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this is going very poorly. I don't think a random word generator is the way to go."
212019-11-15 02:11:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""mom" "juicy" "spicy". yeah, this isn't exactly working so far."
222019-11-15 02:12:13 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "topics, then. headlines. meditation. there's something in here."
232019-11-15 02:12:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Middler: "I'd like to see where meditation goes if you please sir."
242019-11-15 02:13:12 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "damn. because I just got like four paragraphs worth of insight when I considered "death stranding""
252019-11-15 02:13:38 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like there's a whole essay in here, very in line with contemporary critique."
262019-11-15 02:14:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "hey. wait a minute. you can't just go and ask me to do stuff D:"
272019-11-15 02:14:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "the whole idea is to spout nonesense into the void. the second people start taking requests it's a show."
282019-11-15 02:14:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "at what point do I cease to be revelatory, and begin to pander?"
292019-11-15 02:14:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "how's _that_ for your meditation. =/"
302019-11-15 02:16:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you know what? fine. let me blow up. let me self immolate."
312019-11-15 02:17:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "let me both trust that I'm speaking to a dead room, and also fear that I'm being heard and ignored."
322019-11-15 02:17:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "in turn, I'll give you a deep dive on what it means to meditate, in my experience."
332019-11-15 02:17:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "with respect to the understandings, benefits, and caveats such behaviour brings."
342019-11-15 02:18:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "fuck."
352019-11-15 02:19:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "so, the trick is simple. when one is meditating, the idea is to sort of parse the information, but not react in any sort of causual way."
362019-11-15 02:19:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "what this really means, it's the same sort of thing you're doing when you're dreaming. some element of some concept may present itself. say strawberry jam."
372019-11-15 02:20:33 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "but if I were to bring up strawberry jam in normal conversation, you would both consider the jam, remember your experiences with it (or other fruit substances), or otherwise draw some sort of link."
382019-11-15 02:20:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this would be, a causal interaction. I say a thing, you respond. I think a thing, I think further."
392019-11-15 02:21:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to meditate is to simply see the background noise, and _not_ engage."
402019-11-15 02:21:46 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "we can understand this super clearly as we're falling asleep, in the case of dialog."
412019-11-15 02:22:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "someone might ask "what are you doing", to which you would respond "X", where "x". is anything. perhaps you'd spent the real day tracking down a person in the accounting division."
422019-11-15 02:23:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you'd respond "I'm hunting down travis", and thus the dream would continue. from chaos, to order, based upon your deliberate response."
432019-11-15 02:24:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to meditate is to simply ignore the prompt, yet still, in a third person sort of sense measure the response. you hear both "what are you doing" and "I'm hunting down travis" as interal urges. as noise, in the static."
442019-11-15 02:25:12 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "or rather signal, in the noise. fantastic."
452019-11-15 02:25:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "so let's take it back down to a sort of common understanding."
462019-11-15 02:26:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to meditate means to let any thought pass through your head, without further understanding. it's the very state of not caring, but not asleep. if an urge pops up, it simply exists. it isn't followed."
472019-11-15 02:26:51 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "so, we've established that we can see our own thoughts, yes? we can pick up on our own instincts, and even observe (to some degree) our own internal problem solving mechanisms."
482019-11-15 02:27:18 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "what then, is meditation in a religious sense. and why is this such a big deal."
492019-11-15 02:27:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "_it's a simple way of training someone to brainwash themselves_. full stop."
502019-11-15 02:28:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes, welcome to the real galli hour. meditation is a sick form of psychotherapy, self imposed, as directed by those who might wish to keep you tending the fields all day."
512019-11-15 02:28:15 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "ooh what was the first part of the conversation?"
522019-11-15 02:28:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "oh. fuck."
532019-11-15 02:28:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I was really building up to something, there."
542019-11-15 02:28:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I disagree wholeheartedly. Meditation is a path to peace"
552019-11-15 02:28:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Yea you know I'll rip that argument to shreds :D"
562019-11-15 02:29:04 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes, and yet you cannot deny that one can entirely trick someone into using this technique towards the end of subjugating their free will."
572019-11-15 02:29:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "What's the context?"
582019-11-15 02:29:56 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "existence is pain. to meditate is peace. to serve the body is sin, yet we must live. serve the body by _tending to these fields and keeping this monastery going_."
592019-11-15 02:30:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "ta-da. instant slaves."
602019-11-15 02:30:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "though, that's simply the historical context. that's not to say we couldn't create a similar allegory in the here and now."
612019-11-15 02:30:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "wait. metaphor? analogy?"
622019-11-15 02:30:55 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I disagree that existence is pain. I'd offer the thought of resistance being suffering"
632019-11-15 02:31:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "see, this is what happens when you've gone and stopped the thing."
642019-11-15 02:31:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I swear he was on to something."
652019-11-15 02:31:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I was. I was on to something."
662019-11-15 02:31:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Haha"
672019-11-15 02:33:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "if you think of life as one collective wave of consciousness. And within that wave there is movement (evolution through the intermingling play of 'light' and 'dark' energy) - to resist that movement is what causes 'fixation' within perception. (fixation is a whole other topic), yet surrendering into the flow of life and releasing your fixation actually leads to sublime states of peace only understood through practice"
682019-11-15 02:34:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "we have a difference in audience. my audience is "people who either went to college, or did well enough in college to understand and value an empirical worldview". your audience is "hold on, let me grab my healing crystal real fast""
692019-11-15 02:34:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "sorry, well enough in highschool =p"
702019-11-15 02:34:51 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "but also, same difference. in a sense."
712019-11-15 02:35:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "And actually, meditation leads someone into their own 'personal power' - a state which, of the many benefits: nobody can do anything to you, unless you allow it. So it kinda negates the idea that meditation is forced on someone and negates their free will"
722019-11-15 02:35:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I haven't taken offense, but know that your comment was meant to be derogatory"
732019-11-15 02:35:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "are you telling me that I can't strike a person, who is meditating, and they will not feel pain?"
742019-11-15 02:35:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "oh, it was certainly meant as a challenge."
752019-11-15 02:36:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Depends on the meditator. Kung Fu is actually meditation in movement.. If you were to strike a kung fu master then no, they would not feel pain"
762019-11-15 02:36:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "You can't bait me like that ;)"
772019-11-15 02:36:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "I was keen to hear where Galli was going too.."
782019-11-15 02:36:38 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you're mistaken, and mixing your eastern mysticism."
792019-11-15 02:36:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you're thinking tai-chi."
802019-11-15 02:37:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "kungfu is all about control over exertion, towards varying ends with varying degrees. taichi is the one that's all about meditation of movement, flow. and perception."
812019-11-15 02:37:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "No, I'm not. When Boddhidharma visited the Shaolin temple, the monks were keen to learn of meditation that didn't leave them stationary for several days because of the impact oon their physical body"
822019-11-15 02:38:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Thus, Kung Fu became 'meditation in movement'"
832019-11-15 02:39:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this, (your perception) flies directly in the face of pretty much every first hand account I've ever read."
842019-11-15 02:39:18 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "or seen, for that matter."
852019-11-15 02:39:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "No. Kung Fu is a spiritual path. It's not just about the physical. Largely it blends internal energy arts with the 'external' physical arts. There are some styles within kung fu that lean towards either in varying degrees. Tai Chi is an entirely 'soft' martial art (internal)"
862019-11-15 02:39:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Ever trained in Kung Fu?"
872019-11-15 02:40:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I mean, you've 'read about it'...."
882019-11-15 02:40:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "can we get some ice in here please :p"
892019-11-15 02:41:01 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Anyway finish your point. Your audience awaits"
902019-11-15 02:42:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "right then."
912019-11-15 02:42:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Ah man, my bad. Galli, I wasnt paying attention. Can you start over?"
922019-11-15 02:43:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, no, now I'm over here trying to figure out shy's odd interpretation of martial arts, as they tie into woo."
932019-11-15 02:43:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Rikkon: "I like long walks on the beach and candle lit dinners, what about you?"
942019-11-15 02:43:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I think you should stick to physics and numbers Gall"
952019-11-15 02:43:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Rikkon: "damn! sorry wrong chat!"
962019-11-15 02:44:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'm fond of a good sit down, after a good meal."
972019-11-15 02:44:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "and I think you should stick to psychics and hungers."
982019-11-15 02:46:11 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Anyway. It's good of you to share an opinion about meditation - potentially swaying people's opinion on it - and thus potentially inhibiting their practice, if they felt drawn to it. It can range from fulfilling to yielding altered states of reality, to states of ecstatic bliss. But whatever, you  know best ;)"
992019-11-15 02:46:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'll totally grant that both kung fu, and tai chi, involve in the traditional sense - the utilization of meditation."
1002019-11-15 02:46:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "In serious practice, it's a pre-requisit"
1012019-11-15 02:46:49 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "absolutely."
1022019-11-15 02:47:06 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "_insofar as it's the easiest way to brainwash a convent_"
1032019-11-15 02:47:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "strip agency. strip will. replace it with simple conditionals."
1042019-11-15 02:48:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that's not to say that the meditating agent will not feel bliss. of course they will! in the same way that a fully brainwashed person will."
1052019-11-15 02:48:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "LOL okay"
1062019-11-15 02:48:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "(As an observer you seemed brainwashed by your cultural paradigm. but whatever)"
1072019-11-15 02:48:47 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "unfortunately, the evidence is on my side of the table, on this one."
1082019-11-15 02:49:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "it's not my culture, it's my measuring stick. the same one that everyone else, everywhere else, uses."
1092019-11-15 02:49:09 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you'd be better of arguing with the damned sun."
1102019-11-15 02:49:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "And you've been conditioned into your way of thinking. But whatever on that too ;)"
1112019-11-15 02:49:56 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes. we've been conditioned, as a species, to see empirical data as sound - and non empirical claims, as suspect."
1122019-11-15 02:50:09 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Within the Western Paradigm"
1132019-11-15 02:50:14 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this is why I care more for the doctor, than the shaman."
1142019-11-15 02:50:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: ":)"
1152019-11-15 02:50:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "=p"
1162019-11-15 02:51:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I care more for the shaman than the doctor. Because the shaman looks at the holistic system whereas the western doctor looks at individual systems"
1172019-11-15 02:51:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "here's the issue with that, though."
1182019-11-15 02:51:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay, cause you know.. lol"
1192019-11-15 02:52:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "even one demonstable benefit, yeah? it would cease being holistic. it would become _medicine_."
1202019-11-15 02:52:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "demonstrable =p"
1212019-11-15 02:52:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I don't get the point you're trying to make"
1222019-11-15 02:52:26 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "the second you can prove something. you can repeat it. it becomes empirical."
1232019-11-15 02:53:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""holistic" healing methods are entirely the same as any other made up nonesense. they've got no more validity than placebo."
1242019-11-15 02:53:33 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay. Tell that to all the people whose lives I've transformed ;)"
1252019-11-15 02:53:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes, and I've got a long string of girlfriends I've lied to."
1262019-11-15 02:53:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "does that mean my lies were true?"
1272019-11-15 02:54:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Just because *you* don't believe something, doesn't invalidate it"
1282019-11-15 02:54:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that's the difference between you, and I. you're okay with living your lie. you don't grow, you dig in. you turn it into an act."
1292019-11-15 02:54:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "a lifestyle."
1302019-11-15 02:54:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "LOL okay dude."
1312019-11-15 02:54:46 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "My views are built upon first hand experienc"
1322019-11-15 02:54:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "did you transform there lives or did they transform them? Because if you transformed them, then they didn't really transform.."
1332019-11-15 02:54:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Well I'll give you an example"
1342019-11-15 02:56:51 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "One of my healing techniques can fully resolve heartbreak, loss, or grief. So if you've experienced a horrible breakup or can't get over betrayal, e.g.. Anyway, this healing technique fully removes that energy (everything is energy, including emotions, Gall) and every. single. one. of. my. clients. report that the very next day their grief is gone. Things just shift back into neutral."
1352019-11-15 02:58:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Anyway a really good book for you to read Gall, is Hands of Light, by Barbara Ann Brennan - She was a NASA physicist but she'd always been able to see energy from a young child. She's probably done the most amount of scientific research on the human energy field than anyone else"
1362019-11-15 02:58:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "So she blends science with 'woo' (or whatever derogatory thing you want to call something that doesn't agree with you)"
1372019-11-15 02:59:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Then she crossed over into healing full time"
1382019-11-15 03:00:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: """
1392019-11-15 03:00:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: """
1402019-11-15 03:00:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "lol"
1412019-11-15 03:00:56 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "one last try, here."
1422019-11-15 03:01:06 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "test"
1432019-11-15 03:01:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/04/522-barbara-brennan.html"
1442019-11-15 03:01:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "OMG..lol"
1452019-11-15 03:02:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "So? Just because someone uploaded it to that website (which by the way the domain name totally invalidates any credibility it may have)"
1462019-11-15 03:02:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "damn internet spills everyones secrets"
1472019-11-15 03:02:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Maybe I'll make a profile for you ;)"
1482019-11-15 03:03:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "I'm sure there's one out there already...lol"
1492019-11-15 03:03:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I can help you out. I have a fragile ego and an inferiority complex. =p"
1502019-11-15 03:03:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "FOR REAL"
1512019-11-15 03:03:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "We know"
1522019-11-15 03:03:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "that's why you vehmently defend your limited perception of the world"
1532019-11-15 03:04:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, no. it's why I'll stand up for people like you looking to exploit those who are a click more vulnerable than I am."
1542019-11-15 03:04:14 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "For all your science, how much peace do you experience in your life?"
1552019-11-15 03:04:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "c'mon Shy you can't call someone elses perception of the world limited"
1562019-11-15 03:04:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""for all my science"? I mean. a _lot_."
1572019-11-15 03:04:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay. You think you're doing the right thing and that I applaud you for. I just disagree with you, that's all."
1582019-11-15 03:04:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I don't really have any big questions, that don't boil down to "this is the way humans act under certain conditions""
1592019-11-15 03:05:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I feel he has a fixed perception. I'm entitled to that opinion."
1602019-11-15 03:05:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "true"
1612019-11-15 03:05:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "fixation = resistance = suffering"
1622019-11-15 03:05:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, yes. just as much as you're entitled to read nothing but quack science and present it as a viable alternative to objective reality."
1632019-11-15 03:05:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "see, above. your last statement."
1642019-11-15 03:05:47 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay :)"
1652019-11-15 03:06:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Science is limited and is constantly evolving. One day it'll catch up ;)"
1662019-11-15 03:06:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to what. healing crystals? magical vibrations which have literally no basis in reality?"
1672019-11-15 03:06:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "or do you mean your specific brand of perception, and the cult of personality you wish to grow?"
1682019-11-15 03:07:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Well first of all, I  don't use crystals. The 'magical healing vibrations' you talk about are simply frequencies of energy (to which we are ALL subject to, because *everything* is energy)"
1692019-11-15 03:07:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "right. so, magic. vibrations."
1702019-11-15 03:08:01 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Oh dear Gall, why do you resort to insults? (I mean, you can't insult me because.... You don't have that kind of influence over how I feel, but whatever ;) )"
1712019-11-15 03:08:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "This is hilarious"
1722019-11-15 03:08:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "from where I'm standing, you've lost a significant amount of ground."
1732019-11-15 03:08:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "lol how?"
1742019-11-15 03:09:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Seriously, I don't actually care about you or what you have to say.  There's absolutely nothing you can do to me"
1752019-11-15 03:09:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, for once you haven't addressed a claim in any sort of empirical fashion =p"
1762019-11-15 03:09:11 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""la la la I can't hear you""
1772019-11-15 03:09:15 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "isn't a valid rebuttal."
1782019-11-15 03:09:28 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "lol whatever dude. Go to sleep. Or drink some coffee. Or something"
1792019-11-15 03:09:38 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "What a dickhead"
1802019-11-15 03:09:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "again, still, not a rebuttal."
1812019-11-15 03:09:55 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I question whether or not you can provide evidence, you attack. I point out the attack, you attack again."
1822019-11-15 03:09:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "brilliant."
1832019-11-15 03:10:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this is how you get kicked off the debate team =p"
1842019-11-15 03:10:28 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Look, if you were actually open to an honest debate, then I'd perhaps be more inclined - But in the way you're framing your answers, you've already made your mind up. So  there is absolutely no point"
1852019-11-15 03:10:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Or framing your questions, rather"
1862019-11-15 03:11:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "fantastic, let's go back to a base state, then. I have a very neutral question. entirely within the realm of reason. no emotion whatsoever."
1872019-11-15 03:11:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "are you willing and able?"
1882019-11-15 03:11:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "lol dude, I am SOOOOO detached from this right now. You've no idea. So yes, willing and able ;)"
1892019-11-15 03:11:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "This is just funny to me"
1902019-11-15 03:12:01 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "fantastic. you've speaked of frequencies, which I've so cruely referred to as vibrations. you say that these affect us all, yes?"
1912019-11-15 03:12:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Yes"
1922019-11-15 03:12:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "and there is a very particular frequency, which might lead towards healing?"
1932019-11-15 03:12:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "There are many, but yes"
1942019-11-15 03:12:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "understood. can you clarify such a frequency, and explain why it hasn't been used in modern medicine?"
1952019-11-15 03:14:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I'd like to be able to answer that question more fully, but I lack enough understanding of the formation of Western medicine (or the collective paradigm of 'thought' that lead to a) it's formation, and b) it's denial of frequency. I can only comment on my direct experience"
1962019-11-15 03:14:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "let me take a different approach."
1972019-11-15 03:15:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "What I do know, is that across the UK there are many 'alternative medicine' centres within our NHS hospitals, that actually use reiki healers etc"
1982019-11-15 03:15:04 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "your method, it exists, yes? to heal?"
1992019-11-15 03:15:39 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why has this method not been reproduced, and incorporated into the body of modern medicine. we understand that applying this drug, or this movement, and this time, or to that particular place - results in a positive change."
2002019-11-15 03:15:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "My question for you is, are you actually interested in an open debate or are these loaded questions? Don't care either way, just curious"
2012019-11-15 03:15:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why is your method, this frequency system, not applicable to reproduction?"
2022019-11-15 03:16:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "these aren't the loaded ones. the loaded ones were from before, when I was going after your intent =p"
2032019-11-15 03:16:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "these are the shrewd, logical, empirical questions."
2042019-11-15 03:16:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Well it's the basis of Eastern medicine - which is holistic and looks at the whole. Western medicine favours cutting pieces away or medicating. which don't address the root cause of the issue - merely cover it up"
2052019-11-15 03:16:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "and the pharmacuetical industry is a whole other matter"
2062019-11-15 03:17:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "how many people would you say, have access to your particular method. who practice?"
2072019-11-15 03:17:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Google might be a better bet for that question"
2082019-11-15 03:17:49 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "understood. if I may, then."
2092019-11-15 03:18:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why is it that we see the same rates of disease, malady, and malcontent, across both eastern and western medicine?"
2102019-11-15 03:18:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "if this were a case of "eastern" medicine being superior, would that not show up, in the data?"
2112019-11-15 03:19:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why are the rates the same, why are the treatments, given the same efficacy requirements - the same?"
2122019-11-15 03:19:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Because humans are not immortal and at some point we all fall victim to disease and death. My understanding of the eastern paradigm (incorporating 'internal energy arts') is that generally the populace who practice live much longer, healthier lives"
2132019-11-15 03:20:33 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "and yet, this doesn't show up in the worldwide health data. at all. modern medicine knows no cultural bounds."
2142019-11-15 03:20:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "which is, again, why I would ask how many people are aware of your secret methods."
2152019-11-15 03:21:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "because clearly, the billions of us, are not. we're making due with medical practice."
2162019-11-15 03:21:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Look. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm merely offering an alternate view. I don't care about people prescribing to my way of thinking. What I do care about is spreading views that are potentially damaging (that meditation is bad and is a form of brain washing)"
2172019-11-15 03:22:04 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I see. so you fully admit to peddling woo, then."
2182019-11-15 03:22:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you don't want to convince, because you can't convince."
2192019-11-15 03:22:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Omg you're a moron"
2202019-11-15 03:22:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you feel threatened, because I chose to attack one particular form of woo you _think_ is vague enough to imbue with your personal ideology."
2212019-11-15 03:22:46 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "that's the only way I can put it"
2222019-11-15 03:22:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes. the feeling is mutual."
2232019-11-15 03:22:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "although I wouldn't say a moron."
2242019-11-15 03:23:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'd say, a third-rate charlaton."
2252019-11-15 03:23:14 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Really? Cause I feel that you've been faaaaar more offensive, but okay my dear"
2262019-11-15 03:23:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "sorry. charlatan =p"
2272019-11-15 03:23:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Ooh look at all the raw nerves"
2282019-11-15 03:23:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Someone's clearly irrate. Glad it's  not me ;)"
2292019-11-15 03:23:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "again, the debate isn't measured in feelings, remember?"
2302019-11-15 03:23:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "GUESS IT'S ALL THAT  MEDITATION I DO. LOl"
2312019-11-15 03:24:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "=p"
2322019-11-15 03:25:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "I missed the substance of this discussion, could you all please reenact it for me?"
2332019-11-15 03:25:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "My feelings have never come into it. Seems yours have. Otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to 'name call'. :P"
2342019-11-15 03:25:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "HAHA"
2352019-11-15 03:26:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "shyduska is a modern day crystal faith psychic. and took issue with me pointing out that meditation is a form of easy conditioning for ascetic communities."
2362019-11-15 03:26:15 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that's about it, gar =p"
2372019-11-15 03:26:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "I guess it depends on what you mean by easy conditioning?"
2382019-11-15 03:26:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I didn't take issue to anything. I was merely responding to you. But again, there's nothing you can say that will remotely upset me, even your attempt at discrediting me. KISSES"
2392019-11-15 03:26:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "thank you."
2402019-11-15 03:27:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "we didn't even get into that, I'm afraid. it wasn't how easy it was to utilize meditation."
2412019-11-15 03:27:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "it went straight to woo."
2422019-11-15 03:27:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "God, you're boring"
2432019-11-15 03:27:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I wanted to bring up meditation as a sort of self conditioning thing. as a form of self therapy, but also point to it's historic use as a method of control."
2442019-11-15 03:27:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "shy went off on a personal rant."
2452019-11-15 03:28:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Omg lol"
2462019-11-15 03:28:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you literally brought up magical frequencies for healing. and how meditation results in some sort of extra dimensional framework for wellbeing."
2472019-11-15 03:28:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like I'm sorry, but that's what happened."
2482019-11-15 03:28:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "well, if you're referring to methods of control, there are for more traditional methods than something as benign as meditation"
2492019-11-15 03:29:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "oh for sure! right?"
2502019-11-15 03:29:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "well, it's more likely that meditation influences the release of certain hormones"
2512019-11-15 03:29:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that was the whole meta joke =/"
2522019-11-15 03:29:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "You're just making yourself look silly, Gall"
2532019-11-15 03:29:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "shy took it as an attack on. something."
2542019-11-15 03:29:47 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "hold on, let me get you the full log. one moment."
2552019-11-15 03:29:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Not in the slightest"
256-[who@Minerva]─[~][146]─[11G]: 2019-11-15 01:56:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "anyone awake?"
2572019-11-15 01:56:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Mostly awake"
2582019-11-15 01:57:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "drat. carry on."
2592019-11-15 01:57:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "also hello."
2602019-11-15 01:57:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Hello!"
2612019-11-15 01:57:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "everything in order?"
2622019-11-15 01:59:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "Galli was about to embark on his early morning ramblings :)"
2632019-11-15 02:00:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Testing for minimum viable audience?"
2642019-11-15 02:00:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "what? that's *shuffles cards* a complete and total lie, and you should feel ashamed."
2652019-11-15 02:01:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "it is evening in Australia and I have become accustomed to "Evenings with Galli" as I like to call them..."
2662019-11-15 02:01:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "coffee.. watch scroll fly by.. and delight in the mind behind Gallifreius"
2672019-11-15 02:02:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I would love to take credit for this, but truth be told - I've always just chosen a topic and rambled on. I can't even tell you the last thing I ranted about."
2682019-11-15 02:02:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like there's no show, here. I just sort of. abuse the silence."
2692019-11-15 02:03:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like graffiti. without the artistic merritt. =p"
2702019-11-15 02:05:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "alright. here's what I'm going to do. given nobody is speaking;"
2712019-11-15 02:05:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'm going to take a hefty drink, and hit a random word generator until something springs up."
2722019-11-15 02:06:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "then I'm going to sit here, and speak in an authoritative voice."
2732019-11-15 02:06:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "whilst also pretending as though my humility, allows me to make such claims."
2742019-11-15 02:07:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "I'm enthralled already. Can't wait for the elaboration :p"
2752019-11-15 02:11:26 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this is going very poorly. I don't think a random word generator is the way to go."
2762019-11-15 02:11:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""mom" "juicy" "spicy". yeah, this isn't exactly working so far."
2772019-11-15 02:12:13 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "topics, then. headlines. meditation. there's something in here."
2782019-11-15 02:12:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Middler: "I'd like to see where meditation goes if you please sir."
2792019-11-15 02:13:12 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "damn. because I just got like four paragraphs worth of insight when I considered "death stranding""
2802019-11-15 02:13:38 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like there's a whole essay in here, very in line with contemporary critique."
2812019-11-15 02:14:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "hey. wait a minute. you can't just go and ask me to do stuff D:"
2822019-11-15 02:14:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "the whole idea is to spout nonesense into the void. the second people start taking requests it's a show."
2832019-11-15 02:14:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "at what point do I cease to be revelatory, and begin to pander?"
2842019-11-15 02:14:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "how's _that_ for your meditation. =/"
2852019-11-15 02:16:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you know what? fine. let me blow up. let me self immolate."
2862019-11-15 02:17:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "let me both trust that I'm speaking to a dead room, and also fear that I'm being heard and ignored."
2872019-11-15 02:17:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "in turn, I'll give you a deep dive on what it means to meditate, in my experience."
2882019-11-15 02:17:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "with respect to the understandings, benefits, and caveats such behaviour brings."
2892019-11-15 02:18:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "fuck."
2902019-11-15 02:19:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "so, the trick is simple. when one is meditating, the idea is to sort of parse the information, but not react in any sort of causual way."
2912019-11-15 02:19:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "what this really means, it's the same sort of thing you're doing when you're dreaming. some element of some concept may present itself. say strawberry jam."
2922019-11-15 02:20:33 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "but if I were to bring up strawberry jam in normal conversation, you would both consider the jam, remember your experiences with it (or other fruit substances), or otherwise draw some sort of link."
2932019-11-15 02:20:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this would be, a causal interaction. I say a thing, you respond. I think a thing, I think further."
2942019-11-15 02:21:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to meditate is to simply see the background noise, and _not_ engage."
2952019-11-15 02:21:46 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "we can understand this super clearly as we're falling asleep, in the case of dialog."
2962019-11-15 02:22:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "someone might ask "what are you doing", to which you would respond "X", where "x". is anything. perhaps you'd spent the real day tracking down a person in the accounting division."
2972019-11-15 02:23:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you'd respond "I'm hunting down travis", and thus the dream would continue. from chaos, to order, based upon your deliberate response."
2982019-11-15 02:24:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to meditate is to simply ignore the prompt, yet still, in a third person sort of sense measure the response. you hear both "what are you doing" and "I'm hunting down travis" as interal urges. as noise, in the static."
2992019-11-15 02:25:12 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "or rather signal, in the noise. fantastic."
3002019-11-15 02:25:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "so let's take it back down to a sort of common understanding."
3012019-11-15 02:26:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to meditate means to let any thought pass through your head, without further understanding. it's the very state of not caring, but not asleep. if an urge pops up, it simply exists. it isn't followed."
3022019-11-15 02:26:51 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "so, we've established that we can see our own thoughts, yes? we can pick up on our own instincts, and even observe (to some degree) our own internal problem solving mechanisms."
3032019-11-15 02:27:18 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "what then, is meditation in a religious sense. and why is this such a big deal."
3042019-11-15 02:27:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "_it's a simple way of training someone to brainwash themselves_. full stop."
3052019-11-15 02:28:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes, welcome to the real galli hour. meditation is a sick form of psychotherapy, self imposed, as directed by those who might wish to keep you tending the fields all day."
3062019-11-15 02:28:15 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "ooh what was the first part of the conversation?"
3072019-11-15 02:28:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "oh. fuck."
3082019-11-15 02:28:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I was really building up to something, there."
3092019-11-15 02:28:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I disagree wholeheartedly. Meditation is a path to peace"
3102019-11-15 02:28:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Yea you know I'll rip that argument to shreds :D"
3112019-11-15 02:29:04 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes, and yet you cannot deny that one can entirely trick someone into using this technique towards the end of subjugating their free will."
3122019-11-15 02:29:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "What's the context?"
3132019-11-15 02:29:56 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "existence is pain. to meditate is peace. to serve the body is sin, yet we must live. serve the body by _tending to these fields and keeping this monastery going_."
3142019-11-15 02:30:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "ta-da. instant slaves."
3152019-11-15 02:30:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "though, that's simply the historical context. that's not to say we couldn't create a similar allegory in the here and now."
3162019-11-15 02:30:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "wait. metaphor? analogy?"
3172019-11-15 02:30:55 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I disagree that existence is pain. I'd offer the thought of resistance being suffering"
3182019-11-15 02:31:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "see, this is what happens when you've gone and stopped the thing."
3192019-11-15 02:31:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I swear he was on to something."
3202019-11-15 02:31:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I was. I was on to something."
3212019-11-15 02:31:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Haha"
3222019-11-15 02:33:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "if you think of life as one collective wave of consciousness. And within that wave there is movement (evolution through the intermingling play of 'light' and 'dark' energy) - to resist that movement is what causes 'fixation' within perception. (fixation is a whole other topic), yet surrendering into the flow of life and releasing your fixation actually leads to sublime states of peace only understood through practice"
3232019-11-15 02:34:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "we have a difference in audience. my audience is "people who either went to college, or did well enough in college to understand and value an empirical worldview". your audience is "hold on, let me grab my healing crystal real fast""
3242019-11-15 02:34:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "sorry, well enough in highschool =p"
3252019-11-15 02:34:51 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "but also, same difference. in a sense."
3262019-11-15 02:35:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "And actually, meditation leads someone into their own 'personal power' - a state which, of the many benefits: nobody can do anything to you, unless you allow it. So it kinda negates the idea that meditation is forced on someone and negates their free will"
3272019-11-15 02:35:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I haven't taken offense, but know that your comment was meant to be derogatory"
3282019-11-15 02:35:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "are you telling me that I can't strike a person, who is meditating, and they will not feel pain?"
3292019-11-15 02:35:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "oh, it was certainly meant as a challenge."
3302019-11-15 02:36:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Depends on the meditator. Kung Fu is actually meditation in movement.. If you were to strike a kung fu master then no, they would not feel pain"
3312019-11-15 02:36:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "You can't bait me like that ;)"
3322019-11-15 02:36:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "I was keen to hear where Galli was going too.."
3332019-11-15 02:36:38 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you're mistaken, and mixing your eastern mysticism."
3342019-11-15 02:36:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you're thinking tai-chi."
3352019-11-15 02:37:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "kungfu is all about control over exertion, towards varying ends with varying degrees. taichi is the one that's all about meditation of movement, flow. and perception."
3362019-11-15 02:37:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "No, I'm not. When Boddhidharma visited the Shaolin temple, the monks were keen to learn of meditation that didn't leave them stationary for several days because of the impact oon their physical body"
3372019-11-15 02:38:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Thus, Kung Fu became 'meditation in movement'"
3382019-11-15 02:39:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this, (your perception) flies directly in the face of pretty much every first hand account I've ever read."
3392019-11-15 02:39:18 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "or seen, for that matter."
3402019-11-15 02:39:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "No. Kung Fu is a spiritual path. It's not just about the physical. Largely it blends internal energy arts with the 'external' physical arts. There are some styles within kung fu that lean towards either in varying degrees. Tai Chi is an entirely 'soft' martial art (internal)"
3412019-11-15 02:39:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Ever trained in Kung Fu?"
3422019-11-15 02:40:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I mean, you've 'read about it'...."
3432019-11-15 02:40:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "can we get some ice in here please :p"
3442019-11-15 02:41:01 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Anyway finish your point. Your audience awaits"
3452019-11-15 02:42:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "right then."
3462019-11-15 02:42:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Greyhallow: "Ah man, my bad. Galli, I wasnt paying attention. Can you start over?"
3472019-11-15 02:43:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, no, now I'm over here trying to figure out shy's odd interpretation of martial arts, as they tie into woo."
3482019-11-15 02:43:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Rikkon: "I like long walks on the beach and candle lit dinners, what about you?"
3492019-11-15 02:43:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I think you should stick to physics and numbers Gall"
3502019-11-15 02:43:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Rikkon: "damn! sorry wrong chat!"
3512019-11-15 02:44:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'm fond of a good sit down, after a good meal."
3522019-11-15 02:44:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "and I think you should stick to psychics and hungers."
3532019-11-15 02:46:11 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Anyway. It's good of you to share an opinion about meditation - potentially swaying people's opinion on it - and thus potentially inhibiting their practice, if they felt drawn to it. It can range from fulfilling to yielding altered states of reality, to states of ecstatic bliss. But whatever, you  know best ;)"
3542019-11-15 02:46:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'll totally grant that both kung fu, and tai chi, involve in the traditional sense - the utilization of meditation."
3552019-11-15 02:46:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "In serious practice, it's a pre-requisit"
3562019-11-15 02:46:49 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "absolutely."
3572019-11-15 02:47:06 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "_insofar as it's the easiest way to brainwash a convent_"
3582019-11-15 02:47:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "strip agency. strip will. replace it with simple conditionals."
3592019-11-15 02:48:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that's not to say that the meditating agent will not feel bliss. of course they will! in the same way that a fully brainwashed person will."
3602019-11-15 02:48:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "LOL okay"
3612019-11-15 02:48:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "(As an observer you seemed brainwashed by your cultural paradigm. but whatever)"
3622019-11-15 02:48:47 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "unfortunately, the evidence is on my side of the table, on this one."
3632019-11-15 02:49:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "it's not my culture, it's my measuring stick. the same one that everyone else, everywhere else, uses."
3642019-11-15 02:49:09 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you'd be better of arguing with the damned sun."
3652019-11-15 02:49:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "And you've been conditioned into your way of thinking. But whatever on that too ;)"
3662019-11-15 02:49:56 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes. we've been conditioned, as a species, to see empirical data as sound - and non empirical claims, as suspect."
3672019-11-15 02:50:09 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Within the Western Paradigm"
3682019-11-15 02:50:14 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this is why I care more for the doctor, than the shaman."
3692019-11-15 02:50:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: ":)"
3702019-11-15 02:50:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "=p"
3712019-11-15 02:51:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I care more for the shaman than the doctor. Because the shaman looks at the holistic system whereas the western doctor looks at individual systems"
3722019-11-15 02:51:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "here's the issue with that, though."
3732019-11-15 02:51:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay, cause you know.. lol"
3742019-11-15 02:52:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "even one demonstable benefit, yeah? it would cease being holistic. it would become _medicine_."
3752019-11-15 02:52:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "demonstrable =p"
3762019-11-15 02:52:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I don't get the point you're trying to make"
3772019-11-15 02:52:26 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "the second you can prove something. you can repeat it. it becomes empirical."
3782019-11-15 02:53:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""holistic" healing methods are entirely the same as any other made up nonesense. they've got no more validity than placebo."
3792019-11-15 02:53:33 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay. Tell that to all the people whose lives I've transformed ;)"
3802019-11-15 02:53:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes, and I've got a long string of girlfriends I've lied to."
3812019-11-15 02:53:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "does that mean my lies were true?"
3822019-11-15 02:54:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Just because *you* don't believe something, doesn't invalidate it"
3832019-11-15 02:54:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that's the difference between you, and I. you're okay with living your lie. you don't grow, you dig in. you turn it into an act."
3842019-11-15 02:54:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "a lifestyle."
3852019-11-15 02:54:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "LOL okay dude."
3862019-11-15 02:54:46 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "My views are built upon first hand experienc"
3872019-11-15 02:54:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "did you transform there lives or did they transform them? Because if you transformed them, then they didn't really transform.."
3882019-11-15 02:54:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Well I'll give you an example"
3892019-11-15 02:56:51 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "One of my healing techniques can fully resolve heartbreak, loss, or grief. So if you've experienced a horrible breakup or can't get over betrayal, e.g.. Anyway, this healing technique fully removes that energy (everything is energy, including emotions, Gall) and every. single. one. of. my. clients. report that the very next day their grief is gone. Things just shift back into neutral."
3902019-11-15 02:58:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Anyway a really good book for you to read Gall, is Hands of Light, by Barbara Ann Brennan - She was a NASA physicist but she'd always been able to see energy from a young child. She's probably done the most amount of scientific research on the human energy field than anyone else"
3912019-11-15 02:58:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "So she blends science with 'woo' (or whatever derogatory thing you want to call something that doesn't agree with you)"
3922019-11-15 02:59:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Then she crossed over into healing full time"
3932019-11-15 03:00:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: """
3942019-11-15 03:00:41 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: """
3952019-11-15 03:00:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "lol"
3962019-11-15 03:00:56 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "one last try, here."
3972019-11-15 03:01:06 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "test"
3982019-11-15 03:01:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013/04/522-barbara-brennan.html"
3992019-11-15 03:01:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "OMG..lol"
4002019-11-15 03:02:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "So? Just because someone uploaded it to that website (which by the way the domain name totally invalidates any credibility it may have)"
4012019-11-15 03:02:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "damn internet spills everyones secrets"
4022019-11-15 03:02:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Maybe I'll make a profile for you ;)"
4032019-11-15 03:03:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "I'm sure there's one out there already...lol"
4042019-11-15 03:03:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I can help you out. I have a fragile ego and an inferiority complex. =p"
4052019-11-15 03:03:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "FOR REAL"
4062019-11-15 03:03:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "We know"
4072019-11-15 03:03:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "that's why you vehmently defend your limited perception of the world"
4082019-11-15 03:04:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, no. it's why I'll stand up for people like you looking to exploit those who are a click more vulnerable than I am."
4092019-11-15 03:04:14 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "For all your science, how much peace do you experience in your life?"
4102019-11-15 03:04:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "c'mon Shy you can't call someone elses perception of the world limited"
4112019-11-15 03:04:27 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""for all my science"? I mean. a _lot_."
4122019-11-15 03:04:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay. You think you're doing the right thing and that I applaud you for. I just disagree with you, that's all."
4132019-11-15 03:04:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I don't really have any big questions, that don't boil down to "this is the way humans act under certain conditions""
4142019-11-15 03:05:07 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I feel he has a fixed perception. I'm entitled to that opinion."
4152019-11-15 03:05:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Sanctim: "true"
4162019-11-15 03:05:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "fixation = resistance = suffering"
4172019-11-15 03:05:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, yes. just as much as you're entitled to read nothing but quack science and present it as a viable alternative to objective reality."
4182019-11-15 03:05:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "see, above. your last statement."
4192019-11-15 03:05:47 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Okay :)"
4202019-11-15 03:06:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Science is limited and is constantly evolving. One day it'll catch up ;)"
4212019-11-15 03:06:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "to what. healing crystals? magical vibrations which have literally no basis in reality?"
4222019-11-15 03:06:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "or do you mean your specific brand of perception, and the cult of personality you wish to grow?"
4232019-11-15 03:07:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Well first of all, I  don't use crystals. The 'magical healing vibrations' you talk about are simply frequencies of energy (to which we are ALL subject to, because *everything* is energy)"
4242019-11-15 03:07:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "right. so, magic. vibrations."
4252019-11-15 03:08:01 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Oh dear Gall, why do you resort to insults? (I mean, you can't insult me because.... You don't have that kind of influence over how I feel, but whatever ;) )"
4262019-11-15 03:08:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "This is hilarious"
4272019-11-15 03:08:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "from where I'm standing, you've lost a significant amount of ground."
4282019-11-15 03:08:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "lol how?"
4292019-11-15 03:09:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Seriously, I don't actually care about you or what you have to say.  There's absolutely nothing you can do to me"
4302019-11-15 03:09:02 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "well, for once you haven't addressed a claim in any sort of empirical fashion =p"
4312019-11-15 03:09:11 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: ""la la la I can't hear you""
4322019-11-15 03:09:15 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "isn't a valid rebuttal."
4332019-11-15 03:09:28 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "lol whatever dude. Go to sleep. Or drink some coffee. Or something"
4342019-11-15 03:09:38 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "What a dickhead"
4352019-11-15 03:09:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "again, still, not a rebuttal."
4362019-11-15 03:09:55 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I question whether or not you can provide evidence, you attack. I point out the attack, you attack again."
4372019-11-15 03:09:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "brilliant."
4382019-11-15 03:10:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "this is how you get kicked off the debate team =p"
4392019-11-15 03:10:28 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Look, if you were actually open to an honest debate, then I'd perhaps be more inclined - But in the way you're framing your answers, you've already made your mind up. So  there is absolutely no point"
4402019-11-15 03:10:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Or framing your questions, rather"
4412019-11-15 03:11:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "fantastic, let's go back to a base state, then. I have a very neutral question. entirely within the realm of reason. no emotion whatsoever."
4422019-11-15 03:11:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "are you willing and able?"
4432019-11-15 03:11:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "lol dude, I am SOOOOO detached from this right now. You've no idea. So yes, willing and able ;)"
4442019-11-15 03:11:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "This is just funny to me"
4452019-11-15 03:12:01 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "fantastic. you've speaked of frequencies, which I've so cruely referred to as vibrations. you say that these affect us all, yes?"
4462019-11-15 03:12:20 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Yes"
4472019-11-15 03:12:32 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "and there is a very particular frequency, which might lead towards healing?"
4482019-11-15 03:12:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "There are many, but yes"
4492019-11-15 03:12:59 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "understood. can you clarify such a frequency, and explain why it hasn't been used in modern medicine?"
4502019-11-15 03:14:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I'd like to be able to answer that question more fully, but I lack enough understanding of the formation of Western medicine (or the collective paradigm of 'thought' that lead to a) it's formation, and b) it's denial of frequency. I can only comment on my direct experience"
4512019-11-15 03:14:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "let me take a different approach."
4522019-11-15 03:15:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "What I do know, is that across the UK there are many 'alternative medicine' centres within our NHS hospitals, that actually use reiki healers etc"
4532019-11-15 03:15:04 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "your method, it exists, yes? to heal?"
4542019-11-15 03:15:39 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why has this method not been reproduced, and incorporated into the body of modern medicine. we understand that applying this drug, or this movement, and this time, or to that particular place - results in a positive change."
4552019-11-15 03:15:44 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "My question for you is, are you actually interested in an open debate or are these loaded questions? Don't care either way, just curious"
4562019-11-15 03:15:50 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why is your method, this frequency system, not applicable to reproduction?"
4572019-11-15 03:16:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "these aren't the loaded ones. the loaded ones were from before, when I was going after your intent =p"
4582019-11-15 03:16:29 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "these are the shrewd, logical, empirical questions."
4592019-11-15 03:16:30 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Well it's the basis of Eastern medicine - which is holistic and looks at the whole. Western medicine favours cutting pieces away or medicating. which don't address the root cause of the issue - merely cover it up"
4602019-11-15 03:16:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "and the pharmacuetical industry is a whole other matter"
4612019-11-15 03:17:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "how many people would you say, have access to your particular method. who practice?"
4622019-11-15 03:17:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Google might be a better bet for that question"
4632019-11-15 03:17:49 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "understood. if I may, then."
4642019-11-15 03:18:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why is it that we see the same rates of disease, malady, and malcontent, across both eastern and western medicine?"
4652019-11-15 03:18:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "if this were a case of "eastern" medicine being superior, would that not show up, in the data?"
4662019-11-15 03:19:05 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "why are the rates the same, why are the treatments, given the same efficacy requirements - the same?"
4672019-11-15 03:19:57 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Because humans are not immortal and at some point we all fall victim to disease and death. My understanding of the eastern paradigm (incorporating 'internal energy arts') is that generally the populace who practice live much longer, healthier lives"
4682019-11-15 03:20:33 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "and yet, this doesn't show up in the worldwide health data. at all. modern medicine knows no cultural bounds."
4692019-11-15 03:20:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "which is, again, why I would ask how many people are aware of your secret methods."
4702019-11-15 03:21:10 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "because clearly, the billions of us, are not. we're making due with medical practice."
4712019-11-15 03:21:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Look. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm merely offering an alternate view. I don't care about people prescribing to my way of thinking. What I do care about is spreading views that are potentially damaging (that meditation is bad and is a form of brain washing)"
4722019-11-15 03:22:04 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I see. so you fully admit to peddling woo, then."
4732019-11-15 03:22:21 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you don't want to convince, because you can't convince."
4742019-11-15 03:22:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Omg you're a moron"
4752019-11-15 03:22:45 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you feel threatened, because I chose to attack one particular form of woo you _think_ is vague enough to imbue with your personal ideology."
4762019-11-15 03:22:46 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "that's the only way I can put it"
4772019-11-15 03:22:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "yes. the feeling is mutual."
4782019-11-15 03:22:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "although I wouldn't say a moron."
4792019-11-15 03:23:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I'd say, a third-rate charlaton."
4802019-11-15 03:23:14 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Really? Cause I feel that you've been faaaaar more offensive, but okay my dear"
4812019-11-15 03:23:16 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "sorry. charlatan =p"
4822019-11-15 03:23:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Ooh look at all the raw nerves"
4832019-11-15 03:23:34 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Someone's clearly irrate. Glad it's  not me ;)"
4842019-11-15 03:23:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "again, the debate isn't measured in feelings, remember?"
4852019-11-15 03:23:43 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "GUESS IT'S ALL THAT  MEDITATION I DO. LOl"
4862019-11-15 03:24:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "=p"
4872019-11-15 03:25:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "I missed the substance of this discussion, could you all please reenact it for me?"
4882019-11-15 03:25:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "My feelings have never come into it. Seems yours have. Otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to 'name call'. :P"
4892019-11-15 03:25:24 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "HAHA"
4902019-11-15 03:26:00 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "shyduska is a modern day crystal faith psychic. and took issue with me pointing out that meditation is a form of easy conditioning for ascetic communities."
4912019-11-15 03:26:15 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that's about it, gar =p"
4922019-11-15 03:26:37 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "I guess it depends on what you mean by easy conditioning?"
4932019-11-15 03:26:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "I didn't take issue to anything. I was merely responding to you. But again, there's nothing you can say that will remotely upset me, even your attempt at discrediting me. KISSES"
4942019-11-15 03:26:54 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "thank you."
4952019-11-15 03:27:08 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "we didn't even get into that, I'm afraid. it wasn't how easy it was to utilize meditation."
4962019-11-15 03:27:17 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "it went straight to woo."
4972019-11-15 03:27:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "God, you're boring"
4982019-11-15 03:27:42 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "I wanted to bring up meditation as a sort of self conditioning thing. as a form of self therapy, but also point to it's historic use as a method of control."
4992019-11-15 03:27:53 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "shy went off on a personal rant."
5002019-11-15 03:28:03 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Omg lol"
5012019-11-15 03:28:35 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "you literally brought up magical frequencies for healing. and how meditation results in some sort of extra dimensional framework for wellbeing."
5022019-11-15 03:28:48 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "like I'm sorry, but that's what happened."
5032019-11-15 03:28:58 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "well, if you're referring to methods of control, there are for more traditional methods than something as benign as meditation"
5042019-11-15 03:29:19 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "oh for sure! right?"
5052019-11-15 03:29:22 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Garnn: "well, it's more likely that meditation influences the release of certain hormones"
5062019-11-15 03:29:23 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "that was the whole meta joke =/"
5072019-11-15 03:29:25 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "You're just making yourself look silly, Gall"
5082019-11-15 03:29:40 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "shy took it as an attack on. something."
5092019-11-15 03:29:47 -0700:[DRPrime]-You: "hold on, let me get you the full log. one moment."
5102019-11-15 03:29:52 -0700:[DRPrime]-DR:Shyduska: "Not in the slightest"
511-[who@Minerva]─[~][146]─[11G]: